# The Chevrolet Cruze: Designed to need coolant refills?



## Snappa (Mar 31, 2013)

I know that there are so many post and threads in regards to coolant issues with the Cruze on here. I thought it would just be easier to directly ask this, but is this car designed to simply need periodic topping offs of coolant. I know the system is pressurized at the resevoir as opposed to a cap at the radiator itself. While radiator capped systems do not vent to the air, the vent to the resevoir. Since the cruze pressure cap is at the resevoir itself it cents into the atmosphere and is to a degree lost, am i right? I have not been able to keep coolant in this car since I've had it and now it's occuring with no leaks at all. Some im asking is this normal? I mean I never had to refill it myself, it's only been refilled once after thermostat replacement. That was months ago but the amount of coolant has gradually dropped. I don't get where the coolant is going.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Short answer is no. Long answer is this would violate many nations, including the US', clean air laws.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

The infamous disapearing DeX-Cool . 

You may have a spot in the cooling system that has trapped air and after a period of time the Dex - Cool is just filling that space and the air dissipated through the system ..

Deffinately keep an eye on the overflow tank !


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## Snappa (Mar 31, 2013)

So why does the cruze have a vent hole on the resevoir that causes cabin odors and a tsb rerouting these vented vapors to another place? Is it because it's so little it's not deemed unsafe or illegal?


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## BowtieGuy (Jan 4, 2013)

The vent hole is there to prevent overpressurization of the tank/cooling system. It is not 'designed' to leak under normal conditions.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

After 50 years of being in the biz on the mechanical side I still cannot give a definitive answer to this one.
Some cars loose coolant, some, never a drop.
All designs have a port for releasing overpressure....old cars with conventional top tank radiators had a tube that led from the port and just dumped on the ground.
As you noted, the Cruze has a simple channel designed to dump any blowoff down the side of the tank.

But, neither the old system mentioned, or the system found on the Cruze, is designed to vent, ever, as long as the level of coolant is correct and operating within the temperature design parameters.

So, in theory, it would appear that that the Cruze should never need coolant added.
As some have found, substituting a slightly thicker 'O' ring seal to the cap seems to achieve this.

With that in mind, I'm of the belief we see a engineering foopa......somebody blew it and nowbody wants to admit it.
Happens in every business.....think Airbags, most recently.

But the real question, 'Designed to leak'......nope.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Under normal operating conditions the Cruze will not lose coolant if there are no leaks. I strongly believe there is a leak that GM hasn't publicly addressed yet, but for which is hopefully working on a solution. You can get coolant venting out the vent channel if the seal between the tank and the cap isn't tight. You can also get coolant venting there if the vapor pressure exceeds the 20 PSI pressure cap limit, but my experience is that there is at least a 1.5 PSI buffer, and I suspect it's closer to 2 PSI. In Colorado I can start at a low enough altitude and make it to a high enough altitude to drop the ambient air pressure by over 2 PSI. I have experienced a 1.5 PSI air pressure drop without loosing any coolant out the cap and vent.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

After all of these years watching the coolant leak/loss postings and reading the complaints on other web sites, I think Robby is right on about the engineering "oops" factor. I look at difference between the Cruze and my 9th gen Civic cooling systems. The Civic is the old style pressured radiator cap with the overflow piped down to the overflow tank located just behind the radiators and at the bottom of the radiator. It's pretty much the same system as my '97 Civic where the radiator cap is the high point in the cooling system. In 16 years, I never added coolant to the car, even after having the water pump changed when the timing belt got its programmed change. This new Civic runs at about 220 degrees F which puts it in the same range as the Cruze and no coolant loss. Back to Robby's post and the idea that if something in the system isn't just perfect by engineering's design specs., then the system loses coolant (or appears to). I'm waiting to see what changes have been made to the second gen. Cruze engine. I understand it's to be a turbo 1.5L four. I'm betting it will have a vastly different cooling system.

P.S. This summer I discovered (well, I was told about it) a wonderful gasket and O-ring sealer. It's called Jack's Formula 327 Lube. It's intended for swimming pool O-rings and gaskets. It is amazing in its ability to make rings and gasket seal with very little product. You rub a very thin film on the seal and get a watertight seal on the first try, and it doesn't wash away under pressure. My pool system can run up to 25 psi. It can be used on pool heater gaskets, so I'm wondering if it might have a use on the surge tank O-ring. It's a bit pricey ($7 - $9 for a one oz. tube) but it goes a really long way. Guy at the pool shop told me the tube should be a lifetime supply. I used it on the O-ring gasket on my car's gas filler cap to make sure I didn't get any P0455 codes (a documented occurrence on late model Civics).


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

The only question that could arise , Is that formula stable with the Chemical Composition of Dex-Cool ? Given the fact that Dex - Cool has Organic Acids .


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

brian v said:


> The only question that could arise , Is that formula stable with the Chemical Composition of Dex-Cool ? Given the fact that Dex - Cool has Organic Acids .


Good question. The sealer is silicone based as I understand it. I tried to find the MSDS on it and couldn't in the few minutes I looked. I guess an easy test would be to grease up an O-ring and let it sit in some Dex-Cool to see what happens to it.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

It would have to be 220F DexCool. I think a large part of the Cruze's coolant problems stem from the higher than normal operating temperatures.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Check my fluid levels at the dealers with less than 2 miles on the car. All were full. About 3-4 days later, the coolant reservoir was low. Have a bottle of dex-cool and topped it off, like almost three years and 33,000 miles ago.

Haven't touched it since. But from time to time, find my reservoir cap to be a tad loose.

What's a tad? Learned about this system of units of measure when I was down south. Questioned about its numerical value, was told, a tad is just a tad. 

Cooling system runs at about 20 psi, and just a tad loose will evaporate the water contend of the coolant. Wasn't a problem before they dumped the radiator cap, is now. Reservoir was just that, a reservoir. Other key factor is the water pump, see GM extended the warranty to ten years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first as usual.

Also received a letter from GM LAST MONTH, explaining that when the coolant circulates, level can go low. Nice to learn this after I owned this car for almost three years. Tell me to take it to my dealer and get it topped off for free. If you do, make sure that cap is tight, my dealer has a mechanic named, Joe Weak.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

obermd said:


> I think a large part of the Cruze's coolant problems stem from the higher than normal operating temperatures.


I'm not sure that it's higher than normal operating temperatures, I think it's such variable operating temperatures. Anyone with the digital temperature display can watch this highly efficient engine loose 1-2 degrees F, when the car is coasting in fuel cutoff mode. 99 mpg. With the heater off and driving on the freeway the coolant temperature display's a pretty constant 219-220. Turn the heater on, cooling the engine, makes the engine adjust to a warmer water temperature. This constant adjusting to maintain a temperature causes the coolant system programming to overshoot it's setpoint. You can see this on the temperature display. (For those of us with 2011-2012's with digital coolant.)

Chevy even has released a dealer bulletin to explain to customers that complain that there is low heat, or slow warmup with this engine, that it is more efficient than any other product offered in the past, and that long warmup times are normal. 

The engineer in me believes that because the primary concern of this car was fuel economy, they left the engine running a little too efficient in cool weather. Causing way too much computer adjustment of the coolant temperature when using the heater.

I need to top up coolant in the winter more than the summer, and I think it's due to the computer overshooting temperature setpoints to maintain temperature. The thermostat in this car has a small electric heater in the thermostat housing. This allows the use of a higher degree wax pellet thermostat. The computer opens and closes the thermostat by applying a voltage to the integral thermostat heater, causing it to open.

To much proportional-integral-derivative (PID) control for a car! Or mapping, whatever they are doing.

Not to mention the coolant recovery tank design and cap gasket issues. 

Has anyone noticed Dorman is making a replacement tank for the Cruze? Noticed it in Rockauto's catalog. This has to mean that this part is being frequently replaced!


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

carbon02 said:


> I need to top up coolant in the winter more than the summer, and I think it's due to the computer overshooting temperature setpoints to maintain temperature.


I also use more coolant in the winter, but I believe its due to the system venting it to the atmosphere. Seems that pressure cap on the surge tank can't handle the pressure change of extreme cold. 

Here is a thought, water boils at 212F, you add coolant that gets pushed up to like (265F?). Since the cruze uses a partially water cooled turbo, what happens to that coolant when it hits a 600-1000F turbo? Would think at least some of it would turn to steam & make its way to the highest point in the system (the surge tank) and vent.


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

Not sure if this is related or not but..... I received a recall notice about this from GM. No actual recall work to be done just take the car into the dealer and they will fill to appropriate coolant levels. That is it.


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## Snappa (Mar 31, 2013)

So the thermostat in this car is still wax pellet designed? I always though is was just some
device with electric motor that opened a valve once the pcm commanded it to when the temperature sensor reached a certain level, then closed when it dropped to a crrtain
level.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Snappa said:


> So the thermostat in this car is still wax pellet designed? I always though is was just some
> device with electric motor that opened a valve once the pcm commanded it to when the temperature sensor reached a certain level, then closed when it dropped to a crrtain
> level.


My understanding is that the Cruze thermostat is operated by the ECM to manage the engine termps. for maximum fuel economy. I do not think it operates on its own.


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## Snappa (Mar 31, 2013)

So there is no wax pellet?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

No wax pellet. The ECU controls the coolant temperature. It allows it to get up to 223 under light load but will force it down to 187 under heavy load.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> No wax pellet. The ECU controls the coolant temperature. It allows it to get up to 223 under light load but will force it down to 187 under heavy load.


It does so by melting a wax ring around the thermostat depending on what temp the ECU wants the car to run at. 

It is designed this way in case the electrical heater that melts the ring fails - it can still open so the car doesn't overheat.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

obermd said:


> The ECU controls the coolant temperature. It allows it to get up to 223 under light load but will force it down to 187 under heavy load.


I believe this is part of the reason I get excessive cooling in the winter.... say I get my car up to 180-200F and then hit a large hill, the ECU senses the load and seems to open the thermostat fully. By the bottom of the hill I will be back down to the 130-140F range. This is most extreme when you are first warming the car, as once up to 217-219F normal temperature range for 20 minutes or longer it seems to hold its heat pretty well but still will loose 10-30F on downhill sections of road. 

Funny thing is I parked my car with an engine temperature of 217F the other night when it was 19F outside, 4hours later when I got in my car the engine was still at 80F. I was shocked it maintained so much heat considering how easily it seems to loose it when driving/idling.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

The highest temp I have ever seen in my diesel is 196, normal is around 184 and in 27 months no fluid has been added. I believe the higher temperature the 1.4 runs at has something to do with the coolant loss issue. When the new engines come out they will be all alloy, this allows faster warming and also is a better conductor so easier to control the engine temp. It will be interesting to see how these new engines are with fluid use. My son has a Commodore with the Gen III engine and the tank like the Cruze uses and it warms up quickly. I had the same model car with the 3.8 cast iron engine and heads with the pressure cap and overflow tank and needed 3 times as much time to reach normal temperature. The 3.8 needed the occasional top up and the all alloy V8 never needs topping up.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> The highest temp I have ever seen in my diesel is 196, normal is around 184 and in 27 months no fluid has been added. I believe the higher temperature the 1.4 runs at has something to do with the coolant loss issue. When the new engines come out they will be all alloy, this allows faster warming and also is a better conductor so easier to control the engine temp. It will be interesting to see how these new engines are with fluid use. My son has a Commodore with the Gen III engine and the tank like the Cruze uses and it warms up quickly. I had the same model car with the 3.8 cast iron engine and heads with the pressure cap and overflow tank and needed 3 times as much time to reach normal temperature. The 3.8 needed the occasional top up and the all alloy V8 never needs topping up.


Now that's something I hadn't thought of...interesting!

My last car was all aluminum and in like 3 minutes heat was pouring out of the vents.


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## au201 (May 18, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> Now that's something I hadn't thought of...interesting!
> 
> My last car was all aluminum and in like 3 minutes heat was pouring out of the vents.


Now that yall mention that, one of our other cars is all aluminum and it is off "cold" before I can get it out of the garage. And heat is coming out of the vents about 30 seconds later. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> Now that's something I hadn't thought of...interesting!
> 
> My last car was all aluminum and in like 3 minutes heat was pouring out of the vents.


The 2.2 ecotec(different engine family) in my 2004 cavalier was all aluminium. Never noticed any problems warming up or maintaining heat.


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