# odometer rollback



## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Well i got my car recently from a shady seller. i was wondering if there is anyway to tell if the miles have been rolled back on a 2015 cruze, i checked the car fax and it seems good, but when i checked the driving center dash it showed 3851 of gallons fuel used on a car with only 37000 miles, is this normal?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Less than 10 MPG? Highly unlikely. Heavy stop and go in slow traffic is at least the high teens, closer to 20 MPG. 

I don't know of a way to check the car itself. You may want to check for any paperwork, such a safety or smog inspections. Not all of them get reported to CarFax.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Well,


Using the average of the averages excluding the diesel as I do not know what you have for an engine:

30+30+26+29+30+32=177

177/6= 29.5 mpg

3,851 gal x 29.5 miles / gal = 113604.5 miles

113604.5 is roughly 301% of 37,000

I might want to dig into that a bit deeper. Just be careful on how you go about it.

EPA MPG


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## llbanks522 (Nov 23, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> Well i got my car recently from a shady seller. i was wondering if there is anyway to tell if the miles have been rolled back on a 2015 cruze, i checked the car fax and it seems good, but when i checked the driving center dash it showed 3851 of gallons fuel used on a car with only 37000 miles, is this normal?


There are several good articles on the Internet about this. Google “Can odometers be rolled back”. The article I read stated that a GOOD Dealership can detect if the digital odometer was tampered with. They my charge you for it but you stated you got your car from a “Shady Seller” so it would be a good expense for peace of mind. UNFORTUNATELY odometer roll back even in this digital age is ALIVE and WELL. Good luck and I hope your fears ARE NOT CONFIRMED. 

BTW - WELCOME TO OUR CRUZER FAMILY ?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> a car with only 37000 miles


Take the car to a mechanic for an inspection, even if it costs you $100 or so for their time. Explain what you suspect. Any good mechanic will be able to look over the car and find all kinds of things that would be normal for 37,000 miles... or will tell a different story.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I did took it to like 3 mechanics they can't tell, although i wouldn't call them experts. can anybody with a cruze check there dash and check how many miles it shows, along with fuel used for reference. I also changed the fuel tank not sure if that has anything to with it.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

It may leave some digital finger prints, but you'd need something close to CSI-level work to detect it. Not your average garage mechanic (although, they would have an opinion on the wear and tear.)

My suggestion is to call the police and tell them what you suspect. They might know this seller and are looking for something solid. At least they should be able to point you in the right direction.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

ChevyGuy said:


> It may leave some digital finger prints, but you'd need something close to CSI-level work to detect it. Not your average garage mechanic (although, they would have an opinion on the wear and tear.)
> 
> My suggestion is to call the police and tell them what you suspect. They might know this seller and are looking for something solid. At least they should be able to point you in the right direction.


well just watched a video on youtube its show a cruze with 158 miles with fuel used being 11.7 gal so that makes me feel a bit better. i really don'y have any proof the meter is rolled back, just a little paranoid about the belt breaking. also when showing trip options is shows the same amount of miles on my odometer so i think i should be good.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Here is the video i'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtDYXMCt_Zg&t=6s


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I also changed the fuel tank not sure if that has anything to with it.


Why did you change the fuel tank? I've got two used ones but can't get rid of them.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

atikovi said:


> Why did you change the fuel tank? I've got two used ones but can't get rid of them.


I bought the car, and the tank was leaking gas. 

My trip odometer indicates i have 36955 miles at 22.7 mpg which is what my actual miles show, but fuel used is at 3853.8 so i'm probably screwed?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

It was thought that when digital odo's came in to play. They would be tamper proof. 

But like all things electronic. It only takes time for hackers to find a way. 

Apparently it can be done with a simple tool now. This news article was 3 years ago. 

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/10/30/electronic-device-enables-odometer-fraud/


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> It was thought that when digital odo's came in to play. They would be tamper proof.
> 
> But like all things electronic. It only takes time for hackers to find a way.
> 
> ...



I do understand thats it's easy, but i think they would have just reset the trip odometer which shows the the exact actual miles along with MPG average, instead of hacking that since all you have to do is reset it with a press of a button. they should have also reset the fuel used as well. so confused right now, not sure what to think.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> My trip odometer indicates i have 36955 miles at 22.7 mpg which is what my actual miles show, but fuel used is at 3853.8 so i'm probably screwed?


I'd call it highly suspicious.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Does anyone know if changing the odometer automatically changes the trip odometer.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

atikovi said:


> Why did you change the fuel tank? I've got two used ones but can't get rid of them.


Demand for tanks is low until the tanks start getting rust through. 
Then they're worth something if rust free. 
The oldest Cruzes in USA are about 8 years, so demand is starting to become a possibility.


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

Does plastic in Michigan rust?


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> Does anyone know if changing the odometer automatically changes the trip odometer.


Are you quoting mileage from your TRIP odometer or your actual odometer? 

There are 2 trip odometers that can be manually user reset. The only reliable indicator of miles on the car is the actual odometer.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Rivergoer said:


> Are you quoting mileage from your TRIP odometer or your actual odometer?
> 
> There are 2 trip odometers that can be manually user reset. The only reliable indicator of miles on the car is the actual odometer.


I'm quoting my actual odometer. My trip odometer matches my actual odometer so it gives me a little hope it wasn't rolled back. thats why i was asking if the actual odometer is rolled back will the trip odometer roll back as well.


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> My trip odometer matches my actual odometer so it gives me a little hope it wasn't rolled back.


This doesn't make any sense. The only time the trip odometer would match the actual odometer is when the car is new and the owner hasn't reset the trip odometer yet.



[email protected] said:


> thats why i was asking if the actual odometer is rolled back will the trip odometer roll back as well.


What does that matter? The trip odometer can be reset any time you want to. If someone rolled back the actual odometer, who cares about the trip odometer if it was rolled back as well?


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

atikovi said:


> This doesn't make any sense. The only time the trip odometer would match the actual odometer is when the car is new and the owner hasn't reset the trip odometer yet.
> 
> 
> 
> What does that matter? The trip odometer can be reset any time you want to. If someone rolled back the actual odometer, who cares about the trip odometer if it was rolled back as well?


if the new owner never reset the trip odometer which is totally possible, it backs up the miles are the actual miles.

it matters because the trip odometer matches the actual miles i have, so i was asking if the actual miles get rolled back will the trip meter roll back with it to match the actual miles.


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> if the new owner never reset the trip odometer which is totally possible, it backs up the miles are the actual miles.
> 
> it matters because the trip odometer matches the actual miles i have, so i was asking if the actual miles get rolled will the trip meter roll back with it.


The trip odometer only reads up to either 999.9 miles or 9,999.9 miles, forget which, then goes back to 0.0 so unless your 2015 is supposed to have under 10,000 miles, your premise is inaccurate. And of the hundreds of used cars I've owned, I can't recall any with more than 1,000 miles on them that still had both odometers match.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

atikovi said:


> The trip odometer only reads up to either 999.9 miles or 9,999.9 miles, forget which, then goes back to 0.0 so unless your 2015 is supposed to have under 10,000 miles, your premise is inaccurate. And of the hundreds of used cars I've owned, I can't recall any with more than 1,000 miles on them that still had both odometers match.


Its over 36000 miles on my car. i can take a pic if you don't believe me


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

Sure, post pic of regular odometer and one of trip odometer.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

atikovi said:


> The trip odometer only reads up to either 999.9 miles or 9,999.9 miles, forget which, then goes back to 0.0 so unless your 2015 is supposed to have under 10,000 miles, your premise is inaccurate. And of the hundreds of used cars I've owned, I can't recall any with more than 1,000 miles on them that still had both odometers match.


Here you go.


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

So I guess you're one of the few people with a virgin trip odometer.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

atikovi said:


> So I guess you're one of the few people with a virgin trip odometer.


So you think i'm good? car probably not rolled back?


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

Well, my 2015 Volkswagen has 159,000 miles,










And my 2017 Chevy Spark has 110K,










so anything is possible, but if the Carfax looks OK and the seats, pedals, carpet all look like they are from a lower mileage car, you should be good. If you want to spend $5 for the NMVTIS you can run the vin at sites like https://dmvdesk.com/reports-2/nmvtis and get info that isn't always in the Carfax.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> so i was asking if the actual miles get rolled back will the trip meter roll back with it to match the actual
> miles.


I don't know, and I don't know as there would be a definitive answer as it may depend on exactly how the rollback was accomplished as there are probably multiple methods. (scan tool, replacing a chip, etc.)

It still doesn't answer why the trip odometer is showing 22.6 MPG but the fuel used is showing 3851 gallons. Doing that math, that suggest the real mileage is closer to 87,000.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I could see a scenario of odo rollback and trip being reset manually. 

But is the trip supposed to show all 6 digits?

I can't verify mine as it apparently got reset and has just less then half of the odo. It should be 117 miles less odo. Which is 10,4xx


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

snowwy66 said:


> But is the trip supposed to show all 6 digits?


Going from memory, it doesn't show leading zeros. I don't know what it's maximum count is.


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## Cruzator (Dec 31, 2014)

Does anybody know if they reset the mileage, if it resets the mileage counter in the computer that can be seen with a scanner? (I didn't watch the video yet. I'm presuming it resets that to display the new, reset mileage). Just a thought.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

ChevyGuy said:


> I don't know, and I don't know as there would be a definitive answer as it may depend on exactly how the rollback was accomplished as there are probably multiple methods. (scan tool, replacing a chip, etc.)
> 
> It still doesn't answer why the trip odometer is showing 22.6 MPG but the fuel used is showing 3851 gallons. Doing that math, that suggest the real mileage is closer to 87,000.


is it possible changing the fuel tank had something to do with that?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> is it possible changing the fuel tank had something to do with that?


I can't imagine the tank holding the gallons pumped value. Did you change the fuel pump module as well? It's an electronic module located behind the liner in the trunk near the fill pipe. (Not to be confused with the fuel pump which is located in the tank.)


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

ChevyGuy said:


> I can't imagine the tank holding the gallons pumped value. Did you change the fuel pump module as well? It's an electronic module located behind the liner in the trunk near the fill pipe. (Not to be confused with the fuel pump which is located in the tank.)


no i bought the car from this guy, but it seems a lot of work has been done on it. i'm gonna keep the car for 4 months and hopefully it doesn't fall apart, then sell it. i do have a p0420 code which is concerning.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

A code P0420 may mean that one or more of the following has happened: 

Leaded fuel was used where unleaded was called for (unlikely) 
A damaged or failed oxygen / O2 sensor Downstream oxygen sensor (HO2S) wiring damaged or connected improperly 
The engine coolant temperature sensor is not working properly 
Damaged or leaking exhaust manifold / catalytic converter / muffler / exhaust pipe 
Failed or underperforming catalytic converter (likely) 
Retarded spark timing 
The oxygen sensors in front and behind the converter are reporting too similar of readings 
Leaking fuel injector or high fuel pressure Cylinder misfire Oil contamination

Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0420


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> i bought the car from this guy, but it seems a lot of work has been done on it.


That doesn't bode well.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> i bought the car from this guy, but it seems a lot of work has been done on it.


That doesn't bode well.



[email protected] said:


> i do have a p0420 code which is concerning.



Which suggests the catalytic converter isn't functioning properly.


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

What "guy" and what work has been done to it? The cat should be warrantied to 8 years/80,000 miles.


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## Saint Nick (Mar 14, 2017)

Until not too long ago on Chevy vehicles the gauge cluster itself was what stored the odometer mileage. Dealers used to find wrecked vehicles with lower mileage than what they had in inventory and just swap the cluster. Instant low-mileage vehicle. 

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

atikovi said:


> What "guy" and what work has been done to it? The cat should be warrantied to 8 years/80,000 miles.


i bought the car from a guy from craiglist changed the water pump and thermostat housing, it had no horn as well, and the car has been repainted in many areas. so even if i bought the car from craiglist i have warranty for the cat?


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## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-art...anties-are-often-forgotten-or-overlooked.html


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> i bought the car from a guy from craiglist changed the water pump and thermostat housing, it had no horn as well, and the car has been repainted in many areas. so even if i bought the car from craiglist i have warranty for the cat?


Go to MY.GM.COM and type in your VIN to see what coverages still apply to your vehicle.

https://my.gm.com/home


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

You have to have an account and log in to find very limited details. Since he bought the car used, is he going to have any problems setting up an account with a vin that's already licensed to another owner???

Here's a number to call also if no help from websight. It's off the websight. 

1-800-222-1020


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Thanks @snowwy66 for the 800 number, good idea.

Yeah, I bought my Cruze used and when I registered the VIN on MY.GM.COM, my account didn’t show any previous maintenance records. 

My account does however show all warranties (open and expired) along with special coverages and open/closed recalls.

As for maintenance records, it now reflects all maintenance performed at GM dealers since the date I registered the VIN to my name.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

if i have green antifreeze in my car will they void my warranty? do i need to change my coolant before i go?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Change it to stock color. REd or orange. 

Others would have to chime in but I beleive it's orange.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

thanks to everyone who helped, and replied, i really appreciate it.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> and the car has been repainted in many areas.


I hope you got it for a good price as it sounds like it's had a hard life. I'm thinking it's been in a wreck.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

i paid 7000 it's a LS 2015 but already put 1400-1500 on fixing it, clean title, one minor accident reported, it wasn't a good deal if the miles are rolled back thats for sure, but i learned a lot about buying a used car, now have a scanner and everything so hard lesson learned.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Something odd i just noticed my coolant temperature never shows up on my DIC. any idea why that is?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Something odd i just noticed my coolant temperature never shows up on my DIC. any idea why that is?


I think only the 2011 has that. My 2013 doesn't. All you have is the computer-controlled gauge. As long as the computer considers it "normal", it parks the needle one tick "cold" from the midpoint.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Ah ok thanks chevyguy.


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## gliderdriver (Jan 7, 2018)

ChevyGuy said:


> I think only the 2011 has that. My 2013 doesn't. All you have is the computer-controlled gauge. As long as the computer considers it "normal", it parks the needle one tick "cold" from the midpoint.


Interesting, my '11 does not have that feature.


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## Roger Ramjet (Oct 11, 2018)

Check with OnStar for Miles and Maintenance. They'll have a history.


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

maybe the car idled a lot? Security guard duty maybe? Rollback could've been caught when the vehicle was registered and/or inspected after a sale.


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## ahsaid (Jun 14, 2018)

I bought my cruze 2014 LS brand new and it has 27k miles on it as I don’t drive a lot also I never reset the trip odometer.


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## tencatao (Sep 5, 2018)

Hi, folk!
For a three year old car we can assume: here in Brazil, the average / year is about 20,000 kilometers (12,500 miles), so with an average / year it should have been driven for 60,000Km (37,300 miles). So, by average / year based on cars in Brazil, this one of yours was not rollback.
There's a way to check, instead: go to a Chevy dealer and ask to use the scanner to check the miles shown on the ECU, and double check with what is showing on the panel odometer.

Greetings


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## Nieboh (Feb 10, 2017)

Just wanted to echo tencatao's suggestion.


There's a great video on youtube that describes this issue at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw5C0U0bnAc If the link doesn't work for some reason, search "lehto's law odometer fraud".

If you don't want to watch the video, think of it this way...if a dealer will lease a car to you, there will be a device present that will alert them to how many miles you've driven and if you've tried to pull one over on them by faking the odometer reading. Car dealers are a lot like banks-- if they think they can cheat you, they'll try it; if they think you could cheat them, they'll prevent it. The cruze was offered on a lease, right? They will know.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

So question for you guys, if i take my car for a new cat and get approved do i have to pay anything? Do i have to pay for diagnoses because i already know what the problem is. I tried to get to on star website but they said i have to call them or something.

Yea i already watched that video.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Why do you want a new cat?


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Why do you want a new cat?


p0420 code. i tested with a scanner second o2 is all over the place, even can hit 000


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

One wouldn't think anything would be bad at 37k miles. Certainly not the cat.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> So question for you guys, if i take my car for a new cat and get approved do i have to pay anything? Do i have to pay for diagnoses because i already know what the problem is. I tried to get to on star website but they said i have to call them or something.


Unless the car is under Bumper to Bumper warranty, the dealer is going to want their fee up front. If it turns out the problems are covered by warranty, they'll refund it. Will it be covered? It depends on what GM's computer says. They may find a record of a dealer visit that shows the car had a higher mileage. It would also depend on what they find. If they find the problem was a bad/improper repair, they may not honor the warranty.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

maybe i should change the second o2 sensor before i go through all that, i heard the fee is 165 here in florida.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Cats should be covered under the 80,000 mile emissions warranty


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

https://youtu.be/GGa3RYmte9U so i took a video of my converter, it looks really bad, what would cause it to go so bad?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> https://youtu.be/GGa3RYmte9U so i took a video of my converter, it looks really bad, what would cause it to go so bad?


External corrosion is cosmetic only.
If you've got a p0420 it's likely not related to rust unless it leaks. Wildly fluctuating O2 readings don't typically point to bad cat. If the reading closely mirrors O2 #1, it's likely failed, if it's all over the place regardless of #1 a failed sensor or wiring is more likely


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

you sure about the second o2 not mimicking the first is a wiring problem, several videos on youtube state other wise. my second o2 when parked it's pretty steady with a few drops and there.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

On a warmed up vehicle, the second sensor should never fluctuate as much as the front if it has the same or nearly the same range of readings as the front does something is wrong. 

If #2 swings wildly like #1 it's usually a cat. (Though something may have killed the cat, so a root cause diag may be needed to avoid a repeat failure)
The #2 sensor on a cat with no oxygen storage capability will follow #1 pretty closely, it won't be exactly the same, but as you watch it it will respond very closely to #1 just with a slight delay. If it's truly all over the place with no relation to #1 there's potentially more than #1 issue going on


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2018)

Thanks for the reply

yea my o2 is sometimes is all over the place, and sometimes steady. so it my not be my cat?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Grab an infra red gun from harborfreight. And measure the temps at front and back of the cat. 

IIRC. If the back is colder. It's plugged. Warmer, it's working. 

Someone posted a youtube vid. That guy was showing a dual exhaust on a ford pickup. 

Scroll down to the temperature test. 

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/How-to-Test-a-Bad-Catalytic-Converter


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## QuintonAjStevens (Mar 26, 2019)

You can likely look at the CarFax and see when the car was brought in for regular maintenance. If it has regular intervals of scheduled maintenance listed

(
For example, "Oil change, 3k miles, January 2015" "Oil change 6k miles, April 2015" and it ends somewhere like "battery replaced under warranty, 35k miles, January 2019" or just another regular oil change or something
) 

This would indicate that the mileage is accurate. CarFax should have notes from when it was taken in for maintenance on what the mileage was if it was taken to any reputable service center. If you see any services listed above the mileage the car currently has AT ALL especially older ones, then that would indicate the mileage is false.


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