# Eco-D MSRP



## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

Anyone got a ballpark for how much the Eco-D will go for? I'm expecting (ha!) it should come in around the same as the Eco, maybe a bit more.


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## TheRupp (May 8, 2012)

I suspect it'll come in a little higher than the gasoline Eco. It's pretty standard across the board that any diesel car with gasoline counterparts will be more expensive.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

I did some research. The VW Jetta TDI starts at $22,700 and full optioned runs about $26. It's base models / mid models are comparable to that of the Cruze. I will guess it will be around $22 base with an Automatic transmission, probably almost $1K less with a manual transmission stripped bare. So my guess is $21K manual, around $22K automatic. However, the other question is how "top trimmed" they make the Eco-D. They can easily put some more options on it like the discs and leather and push it past LTZ territory.


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## TheRupp (May 8, 2012)

ErikBEggs said:


> However, the other question is how "top trimmed" they make the Eco-D. They can easily put some more options on it like the discs and leather and push it past LTZ territory.


I don't foresee this being the case. Unless GM decides to shuffle up the option availability and packages for the Eco line, as it stands, you can't get rear discs, leather or a moon roof (as a few examples) on the Eco from the factory.


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

I have no idea. Although, I was guessing that an "out the door" price for a nicely-equipped one would be around $23k.


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## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

TheRupp said:


> I don't foresee this being the case. Unless GM decides to shuffle up the option availability and packages for the Eco line, as it stands, you can't get rear discs, leather or a moon roof (as a few examples) on the Eco from the factory.


*shrug* The drums stop my LS just fine, I don't like leather, and a moon/sunroof in Phoenix is a good way to get yourself roasted.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

coinneach said:


> *shrug* The drums stop my LS just fine, I don't like leather, and a moon/sunroof in Phoenix is a good way to get yourself roasted.


Yep! the drums are actually massive for a passenger car. They stop the car perfectly well (when adjusted correctly, which they are *far *from being out of the factory). Considering they only do 20% of your braking, the fact that they aren't discs is really a non-issue. Even if they were discs, they wouldn't be vented. 

The only time drums will give you an issue is if you have to make repeated emergency stops from very high speeds. However, as P. J. O'Rourke once said with regard to 4-wheel drum brakes, "if you have to make repeated emergency stops, you have a problem bigger than your brakes."


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

Aren't discs lighter than drums? That would seem like a logical consideration for an car designed for mpgs. 

No moon roof? What about premium sound? This is concerning. I don't think I'd get the diesel Cruze if it didn't come with premium options. I can do without leather, but I like most of the other stuff. 

I guess that's why I'm reading up on this stuff, so I don't get caught by surprise and waste time.



XtremeRevolution said:


> The only time drums will give you an issue is if you have to make repeated emergency stops from very high speeds. However, as P. J. O'Rourke once said with regard to 4-wheel drum brakes, "if you have to make repeated emergency stops, you have a problem bigger than your brakes."


I tow a 1,000 lb. camper, which can cause brake fade on long grades.


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

from what i have read the drums have 0 drag where a disc brake has a slight drag on it even when the brakes are released. i think the drum brakes are the right choice for a car that is trying to get the best mileage it can. i dont know about the weight but having worked on both i think the drums might be a little less weight. drum vs disk is close to the same but a caliper and caliper bracket is kinda heavy where the slave cylinder in a drum brake is tiny. also you dont have the redundant brake set up for the parking brake to work. 

same goes for the sunroof. why go to extremes trying to drop weight and then add in a sunroof. a sunroof is heavy. in the drag racing world many serious racers look for cars without sunroofs just to save the extra weight.

i hate sunroofs anyways. just let in the heat.


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## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

Eugene_C said:


> Aren't discs lighter than drums? That would seem like a logical consideration for an car designed for mpgs.


Not really. The rotor is heavier than the drum, but the brake caliper is heavier than drum brake hardware. Call it a wash.



> No moon roof? What about premium sound? This is concerning. I don't think I'd get the diesel Cruze if it didn't come with premium options. I can do without leather, but I like most of the other stuff.


YMMV, of course. I like options that add functionality, not just looks. I'm pretty much deaf from having been a firearms instructor, F-16 mechanic, and programmer in an industrial band, so premium audio is wasted on me. I'd like to have DVD nav, though.



> I tow a 1,000 lb. camper, which can cause brake fade on long grades.


Not to sound sarcastic, but why not downshift instead of riding your brakes?


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

coinneach said:


> ...Not to sound sarcastic, but why not downshift instead of riding your brakes?


Of course I downshift. But like most people, I also tend to go camping in mountainous areas. Lots of hills. Shifting can't do it all with trailer and a car full of gear. I was just pointing out that there are other situations besides frequent emergency stops that can cause brake fade.



coinneach said:


> YMMV, of course. I like options that add functionality, not just looks. I'm pretty much deaf from having been a firearms instructor, F-16 mechanic, and programmer in an industrial band, so premium audio is wasted on me. I'd like to have DVD nav, though.


I'm probably kind of an oddball in the market these days. I like my econo-boxes fully loaded. I'm not surprised that reality doesn't necessarily match my expectations


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

parish8 said:


> from what i have read the drums have 0 drag where a disc brake has a slight drag on it even when the brakes are released. i think the drum brakes are the right choice for a car that is trying to get the best mileage it can. i dont know about the weight but having worked on both i think the drums might be a little less weight. drum vs disk is close to the same but a caliper and caliper bracket is kinda heavy where the slave cylinder in a drum brake is tiny. also you dont have the redundant brake set up for the parking brake to work.


Those are some good points thanks. I know the rotors and calipers are hefty, but on the rear wheels they tend to be relatively small. Maybe 1/3 the size of the front. The point about the drag is a good one though. I never thought of that. 





parish8 said:


> ....same goes for the sunroof. why go to extremes trying to drop weight and then add in a sunroof. a sunroof is heavy. in the drag racing world many serious racers look for cars without sunroofs just to save the extra weight.


Point taken. However, if someone is going to get the sunroof anyway, then I don't necessarily see a contradiction with a higher-mileage engine and the sunroof. They're just getting the sunroof with the higher mileage engine instead of the sunroof with the lower-mileage engine.



parish8 said:


> i hate sunroofs anyways. just let in the heat.


I think the preference sometimes depends on where you live. I live in a place that's cool and cloudy much of the year. So I like both the extra light and the ability to enjoy the sunny days I get.

Also, I like the "tilt" function for hot days. You can tilt the roof up and close the hatch 3/4 of the way and it will create a nice draft that drafts heat out the top and draws fresh air in through the floor vents, etc. It makes a difference when parked. 

Also, the A/C often works faster when you can blow the hot air out the tilted roof.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

TheRupp said:


> I don't foresee this being the case. Unless GM decides to shuffle up the option availability and packages for the Eco line, as it stands, you can't get rear discs, leather or a moon roof (as a few examples) on the Eco from the factory.


I was going by the assumption that in other lines, the diesel option is the top trim. I don't see why Chevy wouldn't look into this. VW TDIs because you already pay a premium have all the extra top trim options. Logic: "I have to pay as much as an LTZ for the diesel engine, I may as well get leather, discs, etc." The diesel isn't exactly a budget saving MSRP.



parish8 said:


> i hate sunroofs anyways. just let in the heat.


Don't you just... close it? -_- It has the ability to close from both the inside and the outside so I don't know how heat is getting in.


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## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

ErikBEggs said:


> Don't you just... close it? -_- It has the ability to close from both the inside and the outside so I don't know how heat is getting in.


What's the point of a sunroof that you never open?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

coinneach said:


> Not really. The rotor is heavier than the drum, but the brake caliper is heavier than drum brake hardware. Call it a wash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Downshifting is nearly useless in the Cruze in higher grades. It doesn't do enough to actually slow the car down. 

Regarding the 1000lb camper someone else mentioned, you shouldn't really be towing one with a Cruze in the mountains anyway unless it has its own brakes. I think if you overheated a drum brake as big as the one we have, you'd probably start overheating a rotor as well. Believe me, I've done it before.



coinneach said:


> What's the point of a sunroof that you never open?


It's there to make your life interesting should the drains ever start to leak. Also there to jack up your insurance rates as it's another break-in entry point in your car.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

FWIW, GM specifically states that Eco Cruzes NOT pull _any_ trailers of _any_ *size* or *weight*.

Maybe (?) the Eco-D Cruze will be different...or not?!?


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## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> FWIW, GM specifically states that Eco Cruzes NOT pull _any_ trailers of _any_ *size* or *weight*.
> 
> Maybe (?) the Eco-D Cruze will be different...or not?!?


Diesels, pretty much by definition, have a buttload more torque than gasoline engines. I can see GM approving maybe 500#, depending on frame strength.


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

coinneach said:


> Diesels, pretty much by definition, have a buttload more torque than gasoline engines. I can see GM approving maybe 500#, depending on frame strength.





70AARCUDA said:


> FWIW, GM specifically states that Eco Cruzes NOT pull _any_ trailers of _any_ *size* or *weight*.
> 
> Maybe (?) the Eco-D Cruze will be different...or not?!?


Well, a blanket towing prohibition would be a definite deal-breaker for me. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. I don't tow very much weight or very often, but I do need to be able to do so 2 or 3 times per year. 

I would assume that a vehicle with 200+lbs of torque would allow occasional towing. If not then that's a shame and a waste of all that torque.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...the "no-tow" limitation _might_ be a combination of: (a) Eco engine-torque vs. engine-speed (ie: transmission/axle gearing) factory retuning and/or (b) lack of physical frame strength for hitch mounting.


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...the "no-tow" limitation _might_ be a combination of: (a) Eco engine-torque vs. engine-speed (ie: transmission/axle gearing) factory retuning and/or (b) lack of physical frame strength for hitch mounting.


Usually you tow in lower gear (i.e. not overdrive) and usually an automatic is better for towing than an stick, but I was thinking that it could be a transmission issue. Perhaps the Eco transmission can't handle the stresses of shifting with the extra load.


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## bartonmd (Jun 30, 2011)

Eugene_C said:


> Usually you tow in lower gear (i.e. not overdrive) and usually an automatic is better for towing than an stick, but I was thinking that it could be a transmission issue. Perhaps the Eco transmission can't handle the stresses of shifting with the extra load.


IMO, this is probably part of it (but I gather this is the same transmission with different ratios used on other cars for several years), but in the lightening of the body panel material thickness for the ECO to lose weight, they likely weakened the "extra" hitch-mounting structure back there enough that it's not strong enough to support the jarring of a trailer.

Mike


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

bartonmd said:


> IMO, this is probably part of it (but I gather this is the same transmission with different ratios used on other cars for several years), but in the lightening of the body panel material thickness for the ECO to lose weight, they likely weakened the "extra" hitch-mounting structure back there enough that it's not strong enough to support the jarring of a trailer.
> 
> Mike



Thin metal, eh? well, I hope there's extra corrosion protection on it....


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

coinneach said:


> I'm pretty much deaf from having been a firearms instructor......


 Lots of 'Whadyasay?' at the NRA convention.


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## James (Jan 11, 2011)

I drive a Big-Rig, these 15 liter motors in the trucks have from 1,700 to 1,900 ft lbs of torque and they can slow down 80,000 lbs but with JAKE brakes(a system that uses the compression of the engines to slow down). 

But back on topic, what i'm saying is the higher amount of torque in the diesel motor will help you slow down and keep your speed. For example when my truck is about 37,000 i won't speed up much from 65 going down a grade without the JAKE brakes on (maybe 2 or 3 MPH gain). This is on a grade of about 6% for a mile or two (not applying brakes at all i'm just letting the torque of the motor help hold the speed)

The torque of an engine has a braking effect and i have driven a Cruze in the mountains, the stock torque did not have much effect on slowing down the car with 5 people and 5 packs full of hiking equipment. But from my experience in field with driving vehicles of high weights, i can safely say towing that camper in a Cruze Diesel should be much better at holding its speed in the mountains.


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