# Grinding noise from MT?



## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

In the morning, every so often, when I'm driving in 3rd or 4th i hear what sounds to be a grinding noise come from the tranny. It sounds like the same sound if I missed a gear. But I'm not even shifting, I'm just driving in gear. 
Once i shift to 5th it disappears completely. Its just 3rd and 4th... Also it will never do it after the car is warm. Just after it sits.
Any Ideas? or anyone noticing this. 15,000 miles on the car, Not a single problem  besides this noise. 

The dealer can not find any code or anything.


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## ManthaBurner (Jul 4, 2011)

I don't hear a "grinding" per se, but in 4th when everything is cold it does vibrate and grumble a bit at low rpms. I always just thought it was because it wasn't warm yet and 4th is the first overdrive gear so it doesn't like to "try hard" after just waking up.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I get a lot of grumbling in 4th no matter warm/cold. Only at low RPM's. It's gotten progressively more noticeable since getting the car. Apparently it's normal, from what I've heard...

My transmission does seem like it has a grind going into 2nd, 4th, and 5th. It also sounds like something's hitting with lots of force when the clutch is let out a bit quickly. The dealer's looking at it in a week.


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## blackeco (Jul 18, 2011)

you need a manual trans fluid exchange, due once a year every 15k, or as needed, that should solve your problem.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

there has to be something going on in ya'll transmissions because this gearbox has been in production since 2004. I'm pretty sure they've worked out all the bugs. 

But you guys got my curiosity up. What rpms you running when you hear these noises in 4th? Or does it do it over the entire power band?


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## ManthaBurner (Jul 4, 2011)

I don't hear anything, I just feel vibration through the stick and that is only at <2000 rpms while giving it a little gas. Other than that 4th seems just fine to me.


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

my stick used to vibrate alot in fourth gear but now since the car has 11,000 miles it has subsided alot.

:funnypost:


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

sciphi said:


> I get a lot of grumbling in 4th no matter warm/cold. Only at low RPM's.





ManthaBurner said:


> I don't hear anything, I just feel vibration through the stick and that is only at <2000 rpms while giving it a little gas. Other than that 4th seems just fine to me.



i'm guessing both of these is the engine lugging


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

It's pretty much impossible to truly lug one of these engines. It'll stall as commanded by the computer before it truly lugs. These engines are so computer-controlled, they need the computer's okay to even take in more air. 

Well before lugging, it'll make a lot of vibration. That's a normal thing from a little 4-banger working hard at low RPM's. Some of that gets transmitted back up the shift linkage. Normal.

Mine's a normal vibration. I'm just stating it does it.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

i've never seen a engine mated to a MT you couldn't lug, and this engine is no different. I can lug mine at the drop of a hat, so i know you can yours. And with almost 800k miles of driving MT's, i'm pretty sure i know a lugging engine when i feel one. 

But since its just my opinion (i'm not there, i can't hear or feel the noise), and if you don't feel your lugging your engine, then there has to be another issue thats focused around under load low RPM engine vibrations being transmitted through the gearbox. Let me know what you find out, i would be interested to know.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

Its not a lug at all. Its when I'm driving in 3rd and 4th under normal rpm ranges. It sounds like a scraping/ grinding noise. It goes away in 2nd and 5th. Also sometimes when i go up a hill, it loses power and ticks.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

unitednations161 said:


> Its not a lug at all. Its when I'm driving in 3rd and 4th under normal rpm ranges. It sounds like a scraping/ grinding noise. It goes away in 2nd and 5th. Also sometimes when i go up a hill, it loses power and ticks.


I had seen some schematics the other day when i was researching the M32 on how the power flows through the transaxle. 3rd and 4th are the only 2 gears that share a common power flow through the upper main shaft in the transaxle. (there are 3 shafts in it). There may be a problem in the actually transmission itself bro.. it doesn't sound good. I'll link the entire article and maybe you can convince someone that something isn't right if you show them how the problem is isolated to 3rd and 4th and that they share this shaft while none of the other gears do. Its worth a shot.

just ignore that its for the 1.9 for vaxhaull.. its still the same gearbox.


M32 6-speed manual transmission. 1.9 CDTi & VXR | Diagnostics.org.uk

*3rd Gear Power Flow*









*4th Gear Power Flow*


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

Wow thats good Information. But i wonder why it does it only sometimes when its cold.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

unitednations161 said:


> Wow thats good Information. But i wonder why it does it only sometimes when its cold.


Come on manual transmission guru's.. i know your out there, i could use a hand  

Personally, I've tore a few MT's apart and i've put a few together, even did 5 or 6 dogboxes. So i understand the workings, and why what works.. works. But thats my limit of expertise. Something like this would make me want to find schematics and crack the case open.. but i'm weird like. The only thing i can think of, would be that something associated with that forward shaft (a shim, a bearing.. something) when its cold is slightly out of spec but once all the internals warm up its slightly back in spec.. serious guess there. So you end up with a transient noise only when its cold, only in those 2 gears, that consistently goes away after a few miles.

some manual transmission guy is gonna come eat my heart out for what i just said.. i know it..

maybe try getting some video of the noise and taking that to the dealer.


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## everjeff (Apr 23, 2011)

I have the same problem, but shifting into 2nd gear. It only happens after the car sits, but when I start it up and shift into 2nd for the first time I hear a slight grind noise, and then it doesn't happen again the entire time I'm driving.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

everjeff said:


> I have the same problem, but shifting into 2nd gear. It only happens after the car sits, but when I start it up and shift into 2nd for the first time I hear a slight grind noise, and then it doesn't happen again the entire time I'm driving.


i see your from canada, whats the outside temps there?


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## everjeff (Apr 23, 2011)

TravsCruze said:


> i see your from canada, whats the outside temps there?


Around 20 degrees Celsius, or 68 degrees Fahrenheit. The temperature has jumped around from near 30 C (86 F) to 10 C (50 F) and it hasn't made a difference, same thing happens. It also doesn't matter if I was recently driving or not.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

everjeff said:


> Around 20 degrees Celsius, or 68 degrees Fahrenheit. The temperature has jumped around from near 30 C (86 F) to 10 C (50 F) and it hasn't made a difference, same thing happens. It also doesn't matter if I was recently driving or not.


lets say your driving.. you slow down, stop at a light and take off again. Does it do it then? or do you HAVE to turn the car off to make it do it a second time?

watch your speedometer is this noise at the same speed every time? Say about 12 mph (19-20'ish kilometers)?

I apologize for all the questions, but i want to weed something out.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

TravsCruze said:


> lets say your driving.. you slow down, stop at a light and take off again. Does it do it then? or do you HAVE to turn the car off to make it do it a second time?
> 
> watch your speedometer is this noise at the same speed every time? Say about 12 mph (19-20'ish kilometers)?
> 
> I apologize for all the questions, but i want to weed something out.




With me, It does it randomly after the car sits, say overnight or after 8 hours at work. Ill drive down the road get to 6th gear, then 2 miles later get to town, put it in 4th/3rd. and it makes the noise on random mornings, (rain or high moister mornings seam to be the worse tho) and no its not brake rotor noise. I can stop at a sign or go into a store for a bit and it will still do it until the car is driven for a a while, say 10 mins. Then it will not do it again no matter what until it sits for a while. It does not matter the speed or RPMS, but when i put it in neutral from 3rd or 4th it will do it for a split second then quiet up, until i shift back in either gear. 5th/2nd is totally quiet.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

unitednations161 said:


> With me, It does it randomly after the car sits, say overnight or after 8 hours at work. Ill drive down the road get to 6th gear, then 2 miles later get to town, put it in 4th/3rd. and it makes the noise on random mornings, (rain or high moister mornings seam to be the worse tho) and no its not brake rotor noise. I can stop at a sign or go into a store for a bit and it will still do it until the car is driven for a a while, say 10 mins. Then it will not do it again no matter what until it sits for a while. It does not matter the speed or RPMS, but when i put it in neutral from 3rd or 4th it will do it for a split second then quiet up, until i shift back in either gear. 5th/2nd is totally quiet.


i still think yours is what we talked about earlier.. cold its out of spec, warm its in spec on that upper main shaft.

But everjeff, i'm curious if he's feeling the ABS test that goes off at about 12 mph, thats about when i shift if i'm putting around.


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## 5.0 Junkie (Mar 25, 2011)

There is a TSB on some MT being overfilled at the factory. Likely unrelated to noise, but I have seen weirder things. I need to see if mine has been done.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

5.0 Junkie said:


> There is a TSB on some MT being overfilled at the factory. Likely unrelated to noise, but I have seen weirder things. I need to see if mine has been done.


i wonder how they did that..


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## everjeff (Apr 23, 2011)

TravsCruze said:


> lets say your driving.. you slow down, stop at a light and take off again. Does it do it then? or do you HAVE to turn the car off to make it do it a second time?
> 
> watch your speedometer is this noise at the same speed every time? Say about 12 mph (19-20'ish kilometers)?
> 
> I apologize for all the questions, but i want to weed something out.


No, after the first time it doesn't happen again. Only when the car is turned off does it happen again. I can't say I've watched the rpm's to see if it happens at a certain point, but if I had to estimate I'd say between 3-4k is when I normally shift from first to second. Just regular driving.


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## Quazar (Apr 28, 2011)

blackeco said:


> you need a manual trans fluid exchange, due once a year every 15k, or as needed, that should solve your problem.


I thought the trans on this is sealed and does not require fluid exchange.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

There's no transmission that won't benefit from new fluid. Mine's certainly getting changed out at least twice during my time with the car.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

sciphi said:


> There's no transmission that won't benefit from new fluid. Mine's certainly getting changed out at least twice during my time with the car.


:iagree:


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

I know how it could be the transmission not in spac when cold, But I wonder why rain has anything to do with it. If its been dry all week it rarely does it, but if it has rained its horrible. And yes its only in 3rd and 4th but it does not change do to engine speed or rpms. It does not sound like a gear grind tho. I did that today :th_angelsmiley4: just to see if it was that. It sounds quite different. But I'm still sure its coming from tranny. Because it disappears in 2d and 5th. 

The dealer can't seem to hear it, because they do not understand the concept of the car needs to sit.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

Well i learned something, its unrelated to 3rd and 4th. Cuz today it did it in second as well. Its getting worse too.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

that doesn't sound good at all. Sent you a PM


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## starkhitecture (Aug 18, 2011)

everjeff said:


> I have the same problem, but shifting into 2nd gear. It only happens after the car sits, but when I start it up and shift into 2nd for the first time I hear a slight grind noise, and then it doesn't happen again the entire time I'm driving.


this is exactly what happens every morning. I let the car warm up for a few minutes and when i pull away, shifting from 1st to 2nd and 2500 rpms i hear the grinding/clunking noise. After that it doesn't do it again. 

on a side note i am also starting to hear a rattle coming from the passenger side engine compartment.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

starkhitecture said:


> this is exactly what happens every morning. I let the car warm up for a few minutes and when i pull away, shifting from 1st to 2nd and 2500 rpms i hear the grinding/clunking noise. After that it doesn't do it again.
> 
> on a side note i am also starting to hear a rattle coming from the passenger side engine compartment.


next time watch your digital speedometer, if it does it at 12-13 mph its the ABS doing a test (unless my brain is not remembering properly which is highly possible). It only does it after the car has been turned off and it only does it once. EVERYBODY'S does it, its normal. If its not at that speed.. then its something else. Start there first though


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## starkhitecture (Aug 18, 2011)

TravsCruze said:


> next time watch your digital speedometer, if it does it at 12-13 mph its the ABS doing a test (unless my brain is not remembering properly which is highly possible). It only does it after the car has been turned off and it only does it once. EVERYBODY'S does it, its normal. If its not at that speed.. then its something else. Start there first though


thanks for the fast response. The noise does come around there, exactly between 10-15 mph. Is there any literature out there that states this, or is this something that you've heard a tech talk about?


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

starkhitecture said:


> thanks for the fast response. The noise does come around there, exactly between 10-15 mph. Is there any literature out there that states this, or is this something that you've heard a tech talk about?


Its an ABS test... can feel it in the brake pedal if you are looking for it. More noticeable in ECO's than others.. but still noticeable.

I am also getting some lovely rattles in my car now at 12,000 on the odo...


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

limited360 said:


> Its an ABS test... can feel it in the brake pedal if you are looking for it. More noticeable in ECO's than others.. but still noticeable.
> 
> I am also getting some lovely rattles in my car now at 12,000 on the odo...


are the rattles coming from your doors?? my car was very tight up until a month ago. Now I have creaks coming from the doors especially the right rear door. I have 14,000 miles now


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

starkhitecture said:


> thanks for the fast response. The noise does come around there, exactly between 10-15 mph. Is there any literature out there that states this, or is this something that you've heard a tech talk about?


here is a thread that discussed it. Haven't seen any literature over it, but everyone else's does it (as does mine) and the reasoning makes sense, so i lost interest in looking.

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-chevrolet-cruze-general-discussion-forum/3061-strange-clunking-sound.html


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

cruzeman said:


> are the rattles coming from your doors?? my car was very tight up until a month ago. Now I have creaks coming from the doors especially the right rear door. I have 14,000 miles now


I got one from passenger door, passenger side of center counsel and one in the right corner of the car...

I am ripping the garbage INJEN intake off this week and will be taking the car to the dealer for multiples of issues.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

Well found out the problem with the tranny, i need a new one!


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## cmetLS (Jun 2, 2011)

unitednations161 said:


> Well found out the problem with the tranny, i need a new one!


 how did you get the mechanics to beleive it was the tranny ive taken them for test drives and everything i have a stupid dealership


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