# Ignition Issues?? Service Advisor calls bitchin' at me about his survey!



## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

Have been issues with an electrical/sine wave noise for the other person on the phone. I don't hear anything inside the car. Took it to the dealer.....no problem found of course....3rd **** dealer. But every single day, i have people telling while on the phone..."what's that whining noise?". I have 2 phones, and does it on my wifes phone....so its not the phone. 

The A/C will blow ice cold...and then it hot for 5-45 minutes. Or other times, it won't work for at start-up...then blow cold when it feels like. 

Then the other day, the car shutoff and turned back on for a split second, freezing the "MyLink" on the radio, unable to turn it off or anything.

So today the service advisor calls....."bro you killed me on the survey". I gave him a 10...cause he was cool (until the phone call)....but as for the question if the problem was fixed...a "1". 

His advise to me was...when the car dies totally, then we can fix it, until then...umm, we can't diagnose it cause there are no codes. Maybe its an ignition issue he says...but no offer to say..bring it back in. Just when it total fails......

There is 5K miles until the warranty is up...

2 things became evident today....this Cruze is going bye bye to some poor SOB, and this service advisor/dealership just lost my business (I also have my 2013 Camaro SS). Funny think, is I just called 5 min before to take it for a oil change before the guy calls bitching at me about the survey as i was walking out the door.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I would have calmly told the guy how if the issue had been fix or even diagnosed you would have given him higher marks. Then I would add he needs to learn some customer service skills and this call is way beyond inappropriate for him to be making. 

If you don't want a bad review, do your job and don't let cars leave your service department without any fix. You just wasted my time and for that I should give you a -1.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

My guess is that you are not the only one to give this person a 1 and that advisor may not be there long.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Standard procedure is to call back any customer who provides a less than glowing feedback. The intent is to resolve the problem. 

GM tracks these feedback forms and takes action against dealerships who score poorly.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Those feedback surveys are a big deal to a dealership and can affect them a lot financially.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Ahh those trifling nuisance of tedium .. I never fillem out and they whine about that too ...I did give Nick a Glowing endorsement after he finally caught on I was interested in a fully loaded Ecoboost ...............the end .


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

smkn600ctd said:


> Have been issues with an electrical/sine wave noise for the other person on the phone. I don't hear anything inside the car. Took it to the dealer.....no problem found of course....3rd **** dealer. But every single day, i have people telling while on the phone..."what's that whining noise?". I have 2 phones, and does it on my wifes phone....so its not the phone.


Sounds like an alternator problem. A bad alternator may seem OK, since it charges, but it could be "wounded" and not working as it should. That will create a noise on the electrical system. Or possibly a poor connection to the battery, since it's job is to filter normal levels of noise.




smkn600ctd said:


> The A/C will blow ice cold...and then it hot for 5-45 minutes. Or other times, it won't work for at start-up...then blow cold when it feels like.


Sounds like it's low on Freon. But I'd make sure the outside temperature reading is working since that can make the car think it's too cold to run the A/C.




smkn600ctd said:


> Then the other day, the car shutoff and turned back on for a split second, freezing the "MyLink" on the radio, unable to turn it off or anything.


There's been a few that have complained about shutoffs. A few theories, I have yet to see anyone come back and say it's been fixed. Could be the battery cable advisory, or a bad ignition relay.


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## iedgar10 (Sep 25, 2014)

+1 on the shutoff. Although it hasn't happened again.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Hey Dude you have Bugs in that cruzen .. Low Freon . Temp sensor ..alternator or a bad ground wire ...you sure do have a bit of trouble shooting to do . Do you own any tools ?


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

Sooooo....

After getting on the phone with Chevy Customer Service and leaving a VM for the "Fixed Operations Director", he calls me back and he already knew the whole story. While on the phone.....he says (this is priceless)....I think we have a bad connection, there is this whining noise....DING DING DING.....dude...that the noise. He's says...oh I can hear that. Hang up and I'll you back...he calls back...and its still there (no $hit). So I pull over...just revving the engine...makes the noise...at idle...its quiet. At cruise or decel...its quiet. The best description is that is some kind of "electrical feedback".

So they they are trying to make it right...they got me a rental, and are paying for the oil change. The director and the Service Manager came out to apologize and stated that they talked to the S/A, and it was inappropriate for him to call the way that he did, etc. The Asst. Service Manager wrote up the car, not one of the regular S/As. 

So...now we wait. I've given them idea's of the alternator, bad ground, bad BCM, bad radio/BT, etc, he said we'll figure it out. I hope so.....

As for the a/c...I've checked it and they said they've checked the freon level/pressures, and it was good. Something is shutting down the compressor....


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

it could all possibly be related to the same root cause. Sounds like you are on the right track for getting it sorted. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

brian v said:


> Hey Dude you have Bugs in that cruzen .. Low Freon . Temp sensor ..alternator or a bad ground wire ...you sure do have a bit of trouble shooting to do . Do you own any tools ?


I am a ASE master tech..and have more than enough tools. 

Thing is this car has a warranty that GM is going to pay to fix. They aren't paying me to fix their failure.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

smkn600ctd said:


> Sooooo....
> 
> After getting on the phone with Chevy Customer Service and leaving a VM for the "Fixed Operations Director", he calls me back and he already knew the whole story. While on the phone.....he says (this is priceless)....I think we have a bad connection, there is this whining noise....DING DING DING.....dude...that the noise. He's says...oh I can hear that. Hang up and I'll you back...he calls back...and its still there (no $hit). So I pull over...just revving the engine...makes the noise...at idle...its quiet. At cruise or decel...its quiet. The best description is that is some kind of "electrical feedback".
> 
> ...


High or low pressure switch possibly ....EITHER will shut the compressor down as a fail-safe. They are separate on some cars...or integrated into a single assembly on others. Don't know which this one has.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

boneheaddoctor said:


> High or low pressure switch possibly ....EITHER will shut the compressor down as a fail-safe. They are separate on some cars...or integrated into a single assembly on others. Don't know which this one has.


But that's not the only thing,. Screwy outside temp readings will do it too.


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

So they replaced the negative battery cable. They said they verified it had a high voltage drop. But couldn't confirm if it fixed the issues. 

I'll go pick it up...and see what happens.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

smkn600ctd said:


> I am a ASE master tech..and have more than enough tools.
> 
> Thing is this car has a warranty that GM is going to pay to fix. They aren't paying me to fix their failure.


Now we know why the service advisor cannot trust you .. you have your own tools and he has a pen .................

So what do you think of the Mustangs ? 
Are you an Enthusiastic Camaro owner that just enjoys his ride and can care less what the next guy enjoys ?


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

brian v said:


> Now we know why the service advisor cannot trust you .. you have your own tools and he has a pen .................
> 
> So what do you think of the Mustangs ?
> Are you an Enthusiastic Camaro owner that just enjoys his ride and can care less what the next guy enjoys ?


I have a Camaro, Charger, TBird, Ram 2500, and 2 Oldsmobiles....I care only as long as they are enjoying the ride


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

smkn600ctd said:


> So they replaced the negative battery cable. They said they verified it had a high voltage drop. But couldn't confirm if it fixed the issues.
> 
> I'll go pick it up...and see what happens.


My bet is this solves it.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

diesel said:


> My bet is this solves it.


I was about to reply, "If you haven't had the negative battery cable fix yet, that's the first thing I would do." Read the rest of the thread and found out it's already done. Guess that's what I get for neglecting CruzeTalk for a few days to work on painting my house.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

You guys with the Diesels have far worse problems than a simple fix with a new ground cable . I find IT amazing in this world that Diesel owners want to collaborate with gasoline owners about the multitude of potential fixes for unrelated symptoms .


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

So far so good. The Bluetooth issues have gone away. The a/c was intermittent, so the jury is still out on that one.

However the voltage drop on the battery cable that was replaced .778 volts. A bad ground or cable can and will play havoc on the electrical stuff.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hey smkn600ctd,

It sounds like you've been through quite a bit with your Cruze! Our apologies for your initial experience with the dealership, but we're glad to hear they were finally able to resolve the electrical interference issue. We understand you're still within warranty, so if you decide to have your AC checked out we'd be happy to stay involved throughout the process. We're just a private message away if you'd like to speak further.

Cheers,

Amber N.
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

Well the ac finally acted up again (finally warm enough to use the ac) today as I was literally driving in front of the dealership. Took a hard right and got the service manager to come out to the car. Yup...hot air he says. 

Tick tock...now to see what they come up with.


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

So they called to say they can't find anything wrong except that the bcm has multiple codes which would lead to the negative battery cable being bad. 

Thing is they already replaced the cable last time it was there....hmmm


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

smkn600ctd said:


> Thing is they already replaced the cable last time it was there....hmmm


The question is, did they replace it with a defective part? Given the multiple years, it wasn't just one batch batch, but must have been a defective design or process. So I'd expect the bad part to be in the parts system as well. You have to make sure you're getting a "new design" cable and not "new old stock".


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

smkn600ctd said:


> So they called to say they can't find anything wrong except that the bcm has multiple codes which would lead to the negative battery cable being bad.
> 
> Thing is they already replaced the cable last time it was there....hmmm


How can they say nothing's wrong if the AC is hot? Anyway, good luck with getting this resolved!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

diesel said:


> How can they say nothing's wrong if the AC is hot? Anyway, good luck with getting this resolved!


The BCM controls the A/C compressor. If it's having issues all bets are off on just about any non-Powertrain portion of the car.


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

And along with the ac, the Bluetooth has had an electrical whine for the person on the other side of the phone call...and that they can't find either. Replace the BCM and let's start over lol


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

diesel said:


> How can they say nothing's wrong if the AC is hot?


They didn't say nothing was wrong, they said they can't find what's wrong. As someone who fixes things, I know that situation way too well.


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

They re-replaced the negative cable and they heater/ventilation control module (behind the buttons on the dash)

So we will see what happens....


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

good luck


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

Well that didn't fix it. 

Driving it today, ac worked,went away and then came back. Take back to them next week. If they can't fix it, I'll be getting rid the car...,can't have a car with no ac in Vegas during the summer with black leather.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

I hope they fix it. I want to know just for troubleshooting purposes.
I love the rating systems now in use. Anything but a 10 and someone gets ****.
That always flows downhill. To the guy least responsible.


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## Christopher_2 (Jul 31, 2012)

Make sure you get a service ticket every time you take it in for history. What are the lemon laws in your state? GM might have to buy it back.


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## Christopher_2 (Jul 31, 2012)

So what are his options with lemon laws in CA since the dealer can't seem to trouble shoot the issue. Do you have Electrical Engineering Technicians from the factory that might help, who have a better understanding of the system? Being a controls guy myself it would seem a person should be able to connect to which ever modules controls the AC and see what in the logic is not made. There has to be an indication of why it is not on. 



Chevy Customer Care said:


> Hey smkn600ctd,
> 
> It sounds like you've been through quite a bit with your Cruze! Our apologies for your initial experience with the dealership, but we're glad to hear they were finally able to resolve the electrical interference issue. We understand you're still within warranty, so if you decide to have your AC checked out we'd be happy to stay involved throughout the process. We're just a private message away if you'd like to speak further.
> 
> ...


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Christopher_2 said:


> Being a controls guy myself it would seem a person should be able to connect to which ever modules controls the AC and see what in the logic is not made. There has to be an indication of why it is not on.


How's your computer programming skills? I'm pretty sure all of the logic is within the BCM. With the right scan tool or multimeter, you could probable figure out if any sensor is unhappy. If I was to place a bet, it would be that a pressure sensor is showing something out of tolerance. I know in my old car, the first sign of it losing refrigerant is that it would quit working if the condenser got heat soaked.


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## Christopher_2 (Jul 31, 2012)

It is not so much my skills as the learning curve for the system. That is the reason I suggested an engineering tech or engineer from GM intimately familiar with the system take a good look at it. When I went back to college I got an Associates Degree in Controls Engineering. We had to program controllers. I would bet GM has a computer program that can connect to the BCM and follow the ladder logic of the system. Should be able to follow every bit of the control logic and see what is happening. Takes specialized equipment and knowledge specific to GM's programming. Such as Trifecta being able to turn a tune on and off with the cruise control switch. It took him time to figure it out, now he can do it with no problem. Another example is White Automotive programming a MyLink radio to have the reverse lines on the screen of a system that does not have it from the factory. The first time I bet took a lot of, reading , studying and trial and error. Now he can turn a system around in a day.

GM needs to get someone involved that is intimately familiar with the system and stop Easter egging. Which means hunting for the problem with no real idea where it is and just replacing stuff. This can cause more problems than you started with if one of the parts is bad that you just put in. But you don't know the difference becuase you have no idea how it works and are just replacing parts. If that is what is going on a trained monkey can turn a wrench and remove a part.

I once had a a traction control service light on a 2002 Cavalier. Bought a hand held unit, that could read the ABS error and it said the left rear hub was not providing a signal. I bought the service manual and started following the trouble shooting flow charts and wiring diagram. I checked the signal coming from the sensor in the hub with an oscilloscope, signal was bad. I replaced the entire rear hub assembly becuase the bearing sensor and all was one part. Checked it when I was done and the signal was good, reset the error and it came back on backing out of the drive way. Well crap, followed the signal all the way to mechanical module by the master cylinder. Looked like it had several solenoids and a pump that pulsed the brakes for ABS and traction control. I did not have the tools to trouble shoot the box as suggested in the factory service manual. 

Took it to a dealer which I thought would have the specialized tools and GM trained "mechanic". Got a phone call the next day it was fixed I thought great. Went down to pick it up and I had a bill for a new hub, wiring harness and the entire control module assembly by the master cylinder. I asked if he had even checked the rear hub for a signal he said no. He just kept replacing every part in the troubleshooting flow chart until the system worked. That was an interesting conversation and a dealer I will never go back to again. I understood the system better than the dealers mechanic. I asked them for the old brand new hub and showed them how to check it using a Digital Multimeter I had in the trunk, from working on the problem the previous day. I showed him it was working according to the book. Then made them pull the old wiring harness out of the trash and showed them how to check continuity using my meter which showed the wiring was good. Hooked the wiring harness up to the hub spun it and had a signal at the end of the wiring harness. At that point the bill was zeroed out I was given a receipt with a balance of zero and left.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I'll have to look, but I think the manual gives all the sensors/conditions that will shut down the A/C. So it's just a matter of calling them up on the scan tool to see how the BCM is reading them.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Well, the manual just has you check pressures and confirm that the scan tools shows similar values.

Something I forgot to ask - what does your outside air temperature on the radio show? If it goes bad and shows a very low temperature, the A/C will shut off to protect itself.


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

The temp on the radio usually reads higher than lower of the ambient temp. Two dealers in CA said "no issue found" and because of course, it was working for them at that point. Fast forward to vegas, when we moved here in August...the dealer here said.."no issue found", then took it back again in October...."no issue found". Then winter came, and didn't use the a/c. Now that its warming up in Vegas, I first day that i turned it on, it just happened to crap out right in front of the dealer, so pulled in and left it running, and got the service manager (who happened to be the service advisor back in October). By the time they got it back to the a/c tech, it was cold again.

They said the BCM had multiple codes, which lead them to another bad negative cable and they replaced the HVAC control unit (behind the dash they said???). Honestly I think they have no clue and threw a control unit at it and hoped that it fixed it. I called them yesterday to let know I'll be back in monday morning.


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## Christopher_2 (Jul 31, 2012)

Hate to spend more money, might want to get a data logger, for temperature, something that would go right next to the vent. If you could record the temps and give them to the service people you could at least show them it is quitting and for how long. More proof that it is not working correctly,


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I've a A/C story.....might prove useful.

1997 Silverado......May, 1998 I decided a 4 week ride, Chicago to California taking as much of Rt66 as possible would be fun, so, the adventure began.
Naturally, heading West, temperatures were rising to the point of continual usage of the A/C and it worked well.......except.......whenever I stopped for fuel and a break, upon startup and for the next ten minutes or so, no A/C.
Fan blew (hot) air, but no cooling...........after about 5 minutes on the road, the A/C would majically begin working......WTF.

First time it happened, I pulled off, opened the hood, to find the compressor not engaged.
And then, like I said, after a few minutes driving, it would work normally again.
The problem would not occur unless the truck was shut off long enough for a fuel/pit stop......otherwise, worked perfectly.

As the trip continued, I was able to determine the problem only occurred during the hottest part of the day (naturally).....if I stopped for fuel later in the afternoon (getting cooler out)......no problem.

This went on for the entire trip......it always recovered.....figured I deal with it once back at home.

Once I was back (incredible trip BTW....highly recommended) the A/C never acted up......like for the next two years.

Summer of 2000......a HOT one......I'm cruising about, mid day, stopped for fuel....no A/C at restart.....WTF?

So, I pull into a lot, raise the hood, watch things spin, note the compressor is not running.......and wait......couple minutes later, bing!....compressor comes on.

Back to the house......shut it off.....wait five minutes, restart......no A/C.......compressor not engaged.......wait......compressor engages.

Shut it off again, hood still up, wait five minutes, start it.....A/C runs......shut it off...wait some more (10 minutes) restart, A/C on....WTF!
(this is why mechanics get grey hair btw)

Go for a drive, come back home, shut it off, wait five minutes, re start.......no A/C......leave it running, open the hood, watch the not engaged compressor, engage in about a minute.

Took me quite awhile to conclude that the A/C only has a problem after a hot re start if the hood is left CLOSED.......this is a 'heat soak' issue.......crap!

So, I fire up my air compressor, attach an air gun so it'll be ready and off I go to get it hot under the hood again......drove around for half an hour, A/C on......got back home, shut it off, waited the customary five minutes and restarted......no A/C......open the hood, fired cool air from the compressor at the low pressure switch body and, it instantly engages the compressor........I did this a couple times to prove the failure.

Ended up, the low pressure switch, when heat soaked, (hood closed, hot ambient) would bind in the open (non conduct) position.
That's why the A/C would recover once I was on the road awhile.....the airflow under the hood was just enough to cool the switch and allow normal operation.

Memory serves, the switch was less than ten bucks.......replacement does not require recharging since there is a schrader valve under the switch.
I still have the truck.....the A/C works fine.


OP?
See if your Cruze develops a pattern.....a series of circumstances that occur prior to your no A/C concern.......something you can give the mechanic to help resolve the concern.

My situation would have driven a line mechanic insane (heck, it was driving me insane)......a problem that only occurs with the hood closed.......Imagine trying to diagnose a car with the hood closed.

Rob


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Robby said:


> I've a A/C story.....might prove useful.


You didn't mention testing pressures. I was betting it was low Freon until the very end. 

What is the symptom of low Freon? My last car had that issue as well and got progressively worse. I assumed it was low refrigerant.


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

It's usually done it after a few minutes after startup then again after driving it for an hour. Or I may not do it for a week then it will. It's gremlins....yeah that's it lol


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> You didn't mention testing pressures. I was betting it was low Freon until the very end.
> 
> What is the symptom of low Freon? My last car had that issue as well and got progressively worse. I assumed it was low refrigerant.


A lower than spec refrigerant pressure will first show as frequent compressor cycling, but still reasonably cool air output.
As more refrigerant is lost, cycling becomes even more frequent and output air temp gets closer to ambient.

Further loss will result in a 'no clutch engagement' condition.......this is a good thing because a compressor operating at very low refrigerant pressure will eventually damage it.......and of course, no cooling at all.

Most likely, based on your description, low refrigerant (and a leak) was indeed what your previous car suffered from.

Rob


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

Well it's been 3 days and the car is still at the dealer. They dunno why it's doing what's it doing. They also saying they can't get it to show any abnormalities when their equipment is hooked up to the car. They have driven the car 75+ miles. 

If it's this big of a bitch to fix the ac system, heaven forbid something major in the emissions or diesel system.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

smkn600ctd said:


> Well it's been 3 days and the car is still at the dealer. They dunno why it's doing what's it doing. They also saying they can't get it to show any abnormalities when their equipment is hooked up to the car. They have driven the car 75+ miles.
> 
> If it's this big of a bitch to fix the ac system, heaven forbid something major in the emissions or diesel system.


Does it act up for them while they have their equipment hooked up, and the equipment just doesn't log anything?


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

So they called yesterday late evening. 

So they have had the service manager driving it around like it was his personal vehicle and taking it home (Monday til Friday) almost 300 miles since Monday.....can't get the ac to blow warm. So they had the service director take it home last night cause he lives further away than the manager. Haven't heard from them today yet...

So now the car has maybe 6-700 miles of warranty left...and the ac will stop blowing cold who knows when.

The sales dept wants to give a trade value of 13500 for the car (nav and sunroof) with 35k miles (MSRP was 27500). They first came back at $10k lol (cause they really need used cars on the lot they said).

Grrr...


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