# EPA has deleted the deletes September 2019



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The way the worded it sounds like an old person who just discovered technology.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

The biggest perpetrator is GM really. They love deletes.

Think of all that money they didn’t have to spend on emissions because people would just delete the emissions system the moment a problem runs up. Think of all the lawsuits avoided.

hmmmm.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I find it interesting that PDI has to comply with CARB requirements as part of this settlement. CARB requirements are significantly stricter than Federal requirements.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

It's been making the rounds. 

It was announced on the semi's forum also. 

Diesel bros. got busted last year. I think it was in the local news.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Easy. Don't delete unless you actually only drive offroad. Being honest is such an easy way around this issue.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> Easy. Don't delete unless you actually only drive offroad. Being honest is such an easy way around this issue.


its not illegal here


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

It is funny that diesel vehicles are always the evil ones here, but countless gas "deletes" are done as well and it seems to be no big deal. I get it, diesels unchecked are dirtier than gas, but still why not hold everyone to the same standard?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

you just have to be clever

the links i posted dont say "RACE TUNE OFFROAD!!!!!1111" anymore

they now say "Allow your Cruze to shed some extra weight and make some unrestricted power utilizing this tune and other hard parts "

its still the same delete tune and downpipe

they wont stop selling them, lol


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

its the same with cannabis...

prior to it being 100% legal in canada, you could still order it on the internet ROFL

i was buying cbd for my dog

then it went legal....and the sites i was buying from still werent legal as they didnt follow the steps to become legal and the companies that did put pressure on the authorities to shut the illegal sites down

so they got shut down

then couple days later, you get emails from them saying hay heres our new site and secret login...lol

ppl want what they want and ppl will provide it to them.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

TDCruze said:


> It is funny that diesel vehicles are always the evil ones here, but countless gas "deletes" are done as well and it seems to be no big deal. I get it, diesels unchecked are dirtier than gas, but still why not hold everyone to the same standard?


“Dirty” is a matter of opinion. Depends on what’s being measured. 

Diesels actually produce little to no carbon monoxide, try doing that with a gasser.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> “Dirty” is a matter of opinion. Depends on what’s being measured.
> 
> Diesels actually produce little to no carbon monoxide, try doing that with a gasser.


Correct. Particulate matter and NOx is another matter - however the particulate matter that a GDI engine produces is practically just as bad - so much so that DI cars are getting GPFs over in Europe. I predict those will start showing up over here in less than a decade.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Rivergoer said:


> “Dirty” is a matter of opinion. Depends on what’s being measured.
> 
> 
> > 100% agree that "dirty" is based on what you're measuring and attempting to eliminate.
> ...


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

lol, no

very little is made for automotive fuels


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

boraz said:


> lol, no
> 
> very little is made for automotive fuels


On a per vehicle basis, correct. The issue is the 200+ million on the road in the US and the estimated 1.2 Billion on the roads worldwide. It adds up to a considerable emissions load even with the best emissions control systems.

The atmosphere is the ultimate Commons. (https://www.dummies.com/education/s...-life-examples-of-the-tragedy-of-the-commons/)


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

In other words people are the problem therefore it’s actually a Tragedy of the Condoms.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Rivergoer said:


> “Dirty” is a matter of opinion. Depends on what’s being measured.
> 
> Diesels actually produce little to no carbon monoxide, try doing that with a gasser.


Its the massive amount of black soot that is the real problem. 

I work in an underground mine and somehow the emission standard for engines in a mine are no where near that of surface engines, so they run fairly dirty and there is lots of soot. Things get a layer of soot down there after a while. I actually wish they were forced to use tier 3 or 4 engines.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Rivergoer said:


> In other words people are the problem therefore it’s actually a Tragedy of the Condoms.


That is the large elephant in the room.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

TDCruze said:


> Its the massive amount of black soot that is the real problem.
> 
> I work in an underground mine and somehow the emission standard for engines in a mine are no where near that of surface engines, so they run fairly dirty and there is lots of soot. Things get a layer of soot down there after a while. I actually wish they were forced to use tier 3 or 4 engines.


at our u/g mine we had to have the special u/g diesel shipped in


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

boraz said:


> at our u/g mine we had to have the special u/g diesel shipped in


Pretty sure ours is just normal ULSD same as highway vehicles use.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

EPA hasn't deleted anything. It's PPEI who voluntarily stopped selling tunes and hardware because they did not want to fight the EPA and some online vendors who don't want bad publicity.

Do you expect the EPA to show up at tractor pulls and enforce their position that "Off road" or "race" tuned diesel trucks are illegal unless they are equipped with all emissions hardware? 

Do you expect the EPA to do the same at drag races ? Or any motorsports events featuring diesel powered vehicles? Because basically that is what they are trying to implement with their NCI. https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/nat...termarket-defeat-devices-vehicles-and-engines

Can you imagine an EPA "sting operation" at a tractor pull? Where undercover agents shut down the events and confiscate the vehicles? I can't. I think this is just intimidation by .gov


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

My question is why did carbon dioxide become a pollutant? I thought it was necessary for plants to grow?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Aussie said:


> My question is why did carbon dioxide become a pollutant? I thought it was necessary for plants to grow?


how do people drown from drinking water?? i thought it was necessary for life?


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Aussie said:


> My question is why did carbon dioxide become a pollutant? I thought it was necessary for plants to grow?


 Politics


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

TDCruze said:


> Politics


No.

Carbon Dioxide is a greenhouse gas. It always has been, and always will be. It is *entirely unrelated to politics*. To say otherwise is beyond ignorant.



> While transparent to visible light, carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, absorbing and emitting infrared radiation at its two infrared-active vibrational frequencies (see the section "Structure and bonding" above). Light emission from the earth's surface is most intense in the infrared region between 200 and 2500 cm−1, as opposed to light emission from the much hotter sun which is most intense in the visible region. Absorption of infrared light at the vibrational frequencies of atmospheric carbon dioxide traps energy near the surface, warming the surface and the lower atmosphere. Less energy reaches the upper atmosphere, which is therefore cooler because of this absorption. Increases in atmospheric concentrations of CO2 and other long-lived greenhouse gases such as methane, nitrous oxide and ozone have correspondingly strengthened their absorption and emission of infrared radiation, causing the rise in average global temperature since the mid-20th century. Carbon dioxide is of greatest concern because it exerts a larger overall warming influence than all of these other gases combined and because it has a long atmospheric lifetime (hundreds to thousands of years).
> 
> 
> Not only do increasing carbon dioxide concentrations lead to increases in global surface temperature, but increasing global temperatures also cause increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide. This produces a positive feedback for changes induced by other processes such as orbital cycles.Five hundred million years ago the carbon dioxide concentration was 20 times greater than today, decreasing to 4–5 times during the Jurassic period and then slowly declining with a particularly swift reduction occurring 49 million years ago.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

MP81 said:


> No.
> 
> Carbon Dioxide is a greenhouse gas. It always has been, and always will be. It is *entirely unrelated to politics*. To say otherwise is beyond ignorant.


It is a greenhouse gas, it is not however a pollutant. It is a non toxic gas. That was the comment. To much of anything can become a problem, even to much Oxygen is bad. I have never heard of Oxygen pollution either.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

TDCruze said:


> It is a greenhouse gas, it is not however a pollutant. It is a non toxic gas. That was the comment. To much of anything can become a problem, even to much Oxygen is bad. I have never heard of Oxygen pollution either.


we sometimes inject oxygen scrubber into the fluid we haul

oxygen is corrosive to pipelines


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

There’s orders of magnitude more oxygen in the air than CO2. It’ll take millions of years to even put a dent in it.

That’s not the case with CO2. And we just need to double or triple it before it affects our brains and we don’t even know how it will effect other animals long term.

We already have a hard enough time maintaining CO2 levels in buildings. Not uncommon to be breathing 2000ppm + at your child’s school, especially if it’s outdated.

Now imagine life being like that everywhere you go.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

boraz said:


> we sometimes inject oxygen scrubber into the fluid we haul
> 
> oxygen is corrosive to pipelines


Oxygen is definitely corrosive. Just look at my truck.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

For the doubters. As the title of this thread states.






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www.oztuner.com


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

15cruzediesel said:


> For the doubters. As the title of this thread states.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


still available elsewhere

or is the issue is that youre concerned theyll come after you if you purchase?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I don't know about Canada, but in the US it is illegal to knowingly defeat or otherwise alter vehicle (gas or diesel) emissions systems in any way that reduces their effectiveness. The only exceptions are for vehicles that will be exclusively raced or run off-road (including dirt roads) and for vehicles being converted to run on a different fuel source, in which case the conversion must comply with the emissions requirements for that fuel source. I'm actually surprised it's taken the EPA this long to go after the aftermarket diesel delete tunes after the VW diesel fiasco.

The way this law is written, both the seller and the consumer are considered in violation. It's easier to go after the sellers though as there aren't as many of them.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

boraz said:


> still available elsewhere
> 
> or is the issue is that youre concerned theyll come after you if you purchase?


Nope. Trying to buy and they won't sell. A few that advertised inventory refunded my card after the transaction and this was just for the down pipe. I called Thoroughbred Diesel and he said if it isn't carb compliant we don't have it and he said anybody who does sell is a fool at this point in light of the recent EPA crack downs.

OZ didn't even answer the phone.

It is just not diesel deletes it is gas tunes also.

They have come after a few YouTubers and took their trucks but it seems mostly a California issue and astonishingly a few in Texas.

To me it is utter BS and over reach.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

It is the law whether or not you agree with it.

I am surprised with Trump that the EPA still has any teeth left though.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

TDCruze said:


> I am surprised with Trump that the EPA still has any teeth left though.


That's what has been surprising me, as well.

Guess we'll all just have to hand-fabricate delete downpipes (which you could then make larger - always been an issue I had with the OZ downpipe - a bit too small) and figure out how to tune the car. ?


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

MP81 said:


> That's what has been surprising me, as well.
> 
> Guess we'll all just have to hand-fabricate delete downpipes (which you could then make larger - always been an issue I had with the OZ downpipe - a bit too small) and figure out how to tune the car. ?


I am sure it could be done. Need someone real good with the tuning software. 

Probably not gonna get any tune for the gen 2 diesel now either. Doubt any legit business will touch these diesel cars with a 10 foot pole now.


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