# Tuning & Manufacturer's Warranty



## Premier17 (May 20, 2017)

I share your fear!


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

An ECM tune is a surefire to void your warranty. There will be people after me saying how the tune is invisible or doesn't toggle the flash counter, but ignore their cries; if you tune your car, just pretend you don't have a warranty anymore. 

If you have that mindset, you're ready to tune. If they do happen to warranty it, woohoo bonus!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

While Eric's comment about voiding the warranty is technically correct many powertrain failures are still covered under the warranty. For instance, a PCV valve or water pump would be covered since a performance tune doesn't drive them any harder.

Just be aware that any tune may void the warranty, but in the US at least, GM must prove the tune caused the failure.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

To put your mind at rest, this is GM's take on the subject:

[FONT=&quot]Damage Due to Accident, Misuse, or Alteration



[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover damage caused as a result of the following:



Collision, fire, theft, freezing, vandalism, riot, explosion, or objects striking the vehicle.
Misuse of the vehicle such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing, or other competition. Proper Vehicle use is discussed in the Owner’s Manual.
Alteration, modification, or tampering to the vehicle, including, but not limited to the body, chassis, powertrain, driveline, software, or other components after final assembly by GM.
Coverages do not apply if the odometer has been disconnected, its reading has been altered, or mileage cannot be determined.
Installation of non-GM (General Motors) parts.
Water or fluid contamination.
Damage resulting from hail, floods, windstorms, lightning, and other environmental conditions.
Alteration of glass parts by application of tinting films.
 
Important: This warranty is void on vehicles currently or previously titled as salvage scrapped, junked, or otherwise considered a total loss.



[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

You should be asking the tune companies what their warranty is on their product and what liability they will accept should their product cause damage to your vehicle.


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## Cruze Bruzer (May 20, 2017)

Tomko said:


> You should be asking the tune companies what their warranty is on their product and what liability they will accept should their product cause damage to your vehicle.


I was thinking more general wear and tear, or if my car is a lemon haha not that I'm worried about that.


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## Cruze Bruzer (May 20, 2017)

Thanks for the answers, everyone! I think that pretty much answers my question


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

No problem. Enjoy the tune.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Check out this YouTube video blown number one piston removed tune but seems GM denied warranty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT_1Ny_OjCM&index=7&list=PLLPTm5PnkjRqbXgzZVw0HJyPf5lPP_1Zc


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

He also modified exhaust. That's probably what got him. And if you look at the fixed vid he posted. Apparently they fixed the exhaust as he's not going to add it back on. Although it sounds the same to me. 

Nice hole he's got in the front where there used to be a grille.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Cruze Bruzer said:


> I've been looking at Trifecta and BNR tuning. Awesome stuff! My question is, does the manufacturer detect these custom tunes? In other words, are they a surefire way to void the warranty on a new car?
> 
> I'm imaging myself loading the new tuning, and shortly after, the powertrain failing and the manufacturer refusing to replace it due to customization.
> 
> Thanks!


For whats it worth, I found this thread.

SilveradoSierra.com • GM Dealers Checking for Aftermarket Tuning to Void Warranty : Performance Tuning - Page 4

"Why would GM bother to direct dealerships to download history and send it to them and incur the cost for the labor for a warranty repair if they couldn't use the data and reject claims? I am sure in the past, the software the dealership used or Control Moduless couldn't detect or log non-factory tunes. It seems that has changed. Most of us know a company/business will not expend labor and $$$ to do something unless it helps the bottom line. In this case it is avoiding warranty repairs regardless of if the tune was to blame. If you were to expend this labor and $$$ and not be able to detect the tunes then it makes no sense because GM ends up paying not only for the repairs but also the added cost of collecting and sending the info. Food for thought. I don't think RagsMatt needs to provide evidence given the GM direction."

"LOL, too bad even us lazy crappy techs at the dealer have to go through these steps for certain repairs. It's a requirement to take captures of all the required data and send it to be verified prior to starting certain repairs under warranty. So while we may not give a crap about your brand new mud flaps having scratches in them, we cannot proceed on that engine replacement or repair without doing our due diligence."

They will check for the write count.


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## Premier17 (May 20, 2017)

Eh, if it's true that GM can detect the tune on the Cruze, and subsequently refuse warranty repair even though there is overwhelming proof that completely stock Cruzes are blowing pistons without any fault of their owners, then I will say that I will not be a customer of theirs going forward because the tunes provided by the popular players are FAR superior to THEIR factory tune for both performance, and for not running the engine so lean that it destroys itself.


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## le2at30psi (Apr 19, 2018)

Premier17 said:


> Eh, if it's true that GM can detect the tune on the Cruze, and subsequently refuse warranty repair even though there is overwhelming proof that completely stock Cruzes are blowing pistons without any fault of their owners, then I will say that I will not be a customer of theirs going forward because the tunes provided by the popular players are FAR superior to THEIR factory tune for both performance, and for not running the engine so lean that it destroys itself.


 GM requires for TAC and PQC all data logs emailed to gm engineering for review during the event of an engine replacement. However dealers with full engine repair auth. Are allowed to repair the engine under warranty with out engineering auth. The problem starts when non oem equipment is on the vehicle, cold air intake, anything deleted, waste gate actuator arm moved etc. Etc. This calls for programming check. A tech can check calibrations in house using sps and confirm whether or not the vehicle has aftermarket tuning, we can also check how many programming events have been performed . Now let's say you bought another pcm. The new pcm will show a replacement part number calibration. Which if you never had a pcm replaced under warranty it will raise a red flag. But if you tune the new pcm and leave the oem one alone it's hard to prove but a good tech would check the bcm for programming events because the pcm and bcm are on the same data line and store both programming events. Moral of the story is if you crack a piston with a tune car the question of you getting caught is how good the tech is performance techs like myself are required to check tuning software. And if they contact TAC for a engineering case which helps during a big warranty claim TAC will ask in the first 3 questions if the vehicle has been modified. If the tech didn't notice your in the clear. But regardless of brand Chevy Ford dodge etc. They all follow pretty much the same steps. It's the gamble you take. Hope this info helps


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

le2at30psi said:


> And if they contact TAC for a engineering case which helps during a big warranty claim TAC will ask in the first 3 questions if the vehicle has been modified. If the tech didn't notice your in the clear.


And if you're running catless with no muffler, any tech will notice. 
(and this guy paid out of pocket for his cracked pistons)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnglk4kq9qrDJFSecYQ2BRg/videos


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## Celdwist (Nov 17, 2016)

snowwy66 said:


> He also modified exhaust. That's probably what got him. And if you look at the fixed vid he posted. Apparently they fixed the exhaust as he's not going to add it back on. Although it sounds the same to me.
> 
> Nice hole he's got in the front where there used to be a grille.



Why would the exhaust have anything to do with it? I'm curious and I don't know cause I actually recently got a muffler delete on mine.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Celdwist said:


> Why would the exhaust have anything to do with it? I'm curious and I don't know cause I actually recently got a muffler delete on mine.


I'm not sure what, if any, effect a muffler delete or other catback mods would have on a warranty claim, but GM wants the technician to tell them if the car is modified when they're processing a warranty claim, and a cat delete would certainly qualify as an unapproved (not to mention illegal) modification.


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## Cruzen18 (Jan 28, 2018)

Don't think this is strictly a GM thing, but anything to deny a claim, I'm sure. The fewer they pay for, the more money they keep in their pockets. My biggest hangup on going for a tuning option is my lifetime powertrain warranty.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

GM has apparently sent out a TSB to all dealerships about aftermarket tunes. This TSB asks them to check for them before proceeding with certain warranty work.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

obermd said:


> GM has apparently sent out a TSB to all dealerships about aftermarket tunes. This TSB asks them to check for them before proceeding with certain warranty work.


Yes they did, but the TSB is asking the tech for checksum values so if you flash back to stock your checksum values should be stock hence warranty should be intact 

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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

But what if they download the TCM data and it says engine torque output has been 50ft-lbs over stock?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Taxman said:


> But what if they download the TCM data and it says engine torque output has been 50ft-lbs over stock?


The TCM is also flashed back to stock!

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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> The TCM is also flashed back to stock!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


But does it also delete all the TCM historical data, like highest torque seen?
And if it does, won't the missing data look like tampering?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Taxman said:


> But does it also delete all the TCM historical data, like highest torque seen?
> And if it does, won't the missing data look like tampering?


Yes it will put it back to stock and erase the history, you should drive the car a few cycles to put some information back on.
But if the checksums match they most likely wont look into it that far. Unless you have other mods that red flags them to look harder or have some obvious tuning damage.
The dealer shouldn't care as long as GM approves it they get paid. There is never a total guarantee if they want to look hard 
enough they can probably find that you tuned but they would have to really be trying to bust you. If your stock why should they.
This is the TSB dealers use.
Download Rate Exceeded
If the link doesn't work PM me I'll send it to you


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Does this show the ECM write count when submitted to GM from the GSD?


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## klojean (Nov 26, 2016)

Question: i was thinking about doing the tune- would it pay to do it after the warranty expires?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

klojean said:


> Question: i was thinking about doing the tune- would it pay to do it after the warranty expires?


That's what I'm trying to figure out.

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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

alanl11 said:


> That's what I'm trying to figure out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I took my car in for the free oil change to see how my dealer works.
1 The first thing they do is hook up to the. ORD for serial number and sends it right to GM according to the agent 
2 But I got a chance to talk about the cracking pistions which he readily fessed up to.
3 so I asked him if they were authorized to do any warranty work with out pre approval from GM his answer was yes 
4 To lead into my main question I asked if they as a dealer sold performance tunes hus answer was NO!
5 I then asked about putting my own on and of course he said it could void your warranty.
I agreed and continued to ask WHAT IF I REMOVE IT GEFORE BRINGING IT IN?
To this his answer was that's fine. He stated they have to keep certainty records for GM with warranty repairs they authorize so if the car look like it has the stock software there fine eith it.
6 which tune do I get! 
7And Before everyone jumps on me for using GM oil I did it just to see how they work and to talk I will change the oil out before I tune.

The main point to get from this is it's all dealer driven so make sure what your dealer's attitude is and whether they can authorize all their warranty work.

P.S. I mentioned what I was most afraid of was the cracked pistons He stated not to worry a out that because it is such a common known issue. And with a tune it should help prevent one As the stock tune is geared entirely for economy. Also the 18's have a better piston and tune along with oil change to help
We discussed the cause he couldnt speculate I told him I thought it was LSPI .
He agreed.


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## llbanks522 (Nov 23, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> I took my car in for the free oil change to see how my dealer works.
> 1 The first thing they do is hook up to the. ORD for serial number and sends it right to GM according to the agent
> 2 But I got a chance to talk about the cracking pistions which he readily fessed up to.
> 3 so I asked him if they were authorized to do any warranty work with out pre approval from GM his answer was yes
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Did you talk with the Service Tech or the Dealership Service Manager? On my first free oil change I talked directly to the Service Manager. When I asked him about his dealership seeing any “Cracked Pistons” he hesitated in his reply and looked at me like I had 3 heads! AND his answer was “No” I don’t know if he was truthful or just blowing me off with BS. Personally his body language indicated to me that they have seen bad pistons. How bad is the problem? 1/2% 1% 2% 10% 15% of all the 2016/2017 Cruzes sold? Who knows? And our forum guessing game goes on.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

llbanks522 said:


> Did you talk with the Service Tech or the Dealership Service Manager? On my first free oil change I talked directly to the Service Manager. When I asked him about his dealership seeing any “Cracked Pistons” he hesitated in his reply and looked at me like I had 3 heads! AND his answer was “No” I don’t know if he was truthful or just blowing me off with BS. Personally his body language indicated to me that they have seen bad pistons. How bad is the problem? 1/2% 1% 2% 10% 15% of all the 2016/2017 Cruzes sold? Who knows? And our forum guessing game goes on.


IMy plan when I went in was to talk to the service manager as I had asked a tech the same question earlier and got the same response as you. But as I talked to a different tech Friday he gave me the info I stated pretty straight forward so I never spoke to the manager 
The techs response to tuning I we accept because I have heard that there are friendly dealers so I have no reason to doubt him 
Remember this is a great area GM hasn't admitted to a problem a manager might be a little more concerned giving info on it .



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## llbanks522 (Nov 23, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> Remember this is a grey area GM hasn't admitted to a problem a manager might be a little more concerned giving info on it .
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


You are correct. It would not be a good career move for a Manager to spill the beans against Corporate GM.


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

llbanks522 said:


> Did you talk with the Service Tech or the Dealership Service Manager? On my first free oil change I talked directly to the Service Manager. When I asked him about his dealership seeing any “Cracked Pistons” he hesitated in his reply and looked at me like I had 3 heads! AND his answer was “No” I don’t know if he was truthful or just blowing me off with BS. Personally his body language indicated to me that they have seen bad pistons. How bad is the problem? 1/2% 1% 2% 10% 15% of all the 2016/2017 Cruzes sold? Who knows? And our forum guessing game goes on.


I asked two service techs this same question. They said they have done no engine work or replacements on the Cruze, but only on the Malibu. He was knowledgeable about the Malibu re-calibration as well. Not sure if blowing smoke or not. This dealership is very SUV / Truck heavy and has very few sedans on the lot, so might be sample size issue.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

PolarisX said:


> I asked two service techs this same question. They said they have done no engine work or replacements on the Cruze, but only on the Malibu. He was knowledgeable about the Malibu re-calibration as well. Not sure if blowing smoke or not. This dealership is very SUV / Truck heavy and has very few sedans on the lot, so might be sample size issue.


When I spoke to him we talked and included the Malibu's issues as well. There really all the same issue 
Maybe the tech may be afraid of spooking you if mentioning the cruse aa well ?

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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

If you use BNR tuning and the only thing you do is disable the autostop/start and then restore the factory tune when taking the car in for service, what’ s the likeliehood you would have a problem, assuming the car was fine. What about if you are leasing the car and turn it in at the end of the lease. And restore the factory tune? if you are leasing a car, are you required to have the maintenance done at GM? It seems like that is one way to avoid the problem, again assuming nothing goes wrong with the drivetrain. One other question, slightly off topic. What is actually going on what you put your car in Low and press the + button on the gear shift to 6 which defeats autostart. I don’t know that much about transmissions, but from what I understand driving the car in this configuration is no different than having the car in “D” on the automatic gear shifter.


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

These are some follow up questions about BNR tuning. I have watched the online videos, so I get the general idea of how to save your stock tune, but some of the process is still opaque. So let me make some educated guess. You pay $600.00 to BNR. You then email Jerry what you want to accomplish. Let’s keep it simple: defeat autostart, raise HP and torque a bit, make the turbo lag less pronounced so the engine feels more naturally aspirated. Jerry says OK and sends you a custom tune that meets your stated wishes. You save your factory setting, then install his and drive w/the logging on. I am not sure what the purpose of the logging is. it seems like some kind of iterative process, but I’m not sure just what is happening. Can anyone enlighten me?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> If you use BNR tuning and the only thing you do is disable the autostop/start and then restore the factory tune when taking the car in for service, what’ s the likeliehood you would have a problem, assuming the car was fine. What about if you are leasing the car and turn it in at the end of the lease. And restore the factory tune? if you are leasing a car, are you required to have the maintenance done at GM? It seems like that is one way to avoid the problem, again assuming nothing goes wrong with the drivetrain. One other question, slightly off topic. What is actually going on what you put your car in Low and press the + button on the gear shift to 6 which defeats autostart. I don’t know that much about transmissions, but from what I understand driving the car in this configuration is no different than having the car in “D” on the automatic gear shifter.


It wont matter if you tune ir yo just disable auto stop or to get the extra power your warrany can be affected the same for both.
That being said if you take it in for service just put back the stock tune and if the dealer 
Checks all the checksum values will match
See BMR has you copy your stock tune before any changes so it can be flashed back.
I read the GM technical bulletin about what's required by the dealer to do warranty work.
Also a big thing is get to know your dealer small dealers need to check for aftermarket tubes and send GM the checksums so if GM wants they can check further.
Bigger dealer are authorized to determine warranty repairs and do the repair as long as they kazdeep the checksum cont ln file.
I have a 18 LT RS and BNR the power increase is amazing why would you spend upwards of $650 just to turn off the auto stop? Trust me you'll love the improvement in the car its day and night. I've it I and just have my base tune.
Message Jerry Kinney or customer service on The BNR web sight.he'll give you the info you need .



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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> These are some follow up questions about BNR tuning. I have watched the online videos, so I get the general idea of how to save your stock tune, but some of the process is still opaque. So let me make some educated guess. You pay $600.00 to BNR. You then email Jerry what you want to accomplish. Let’s keep it simple:  defeat autostart, raise HP and torque a bit, make the turbo lag less pronounced so the engine feels more naturally aspirated. Jerry says OK and sends you a custom tune that meets your stated wishes. You save your factory setting, then install his and drive w/the logging on. I am not sure what the purpose of the logging is. it seems like some kind of iterative process, but I’m not sure just what is happening. Can anyone enlighten me?


The logs files let's Jerry fine tune your car to the way you drive and any unique properties of your car.

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## crunch21 (Jul 16, 2018)

alanl11 said:


> ....... Trust me you'll love the improvement in the car its day and night. I've it I and just have my base tune.


Your making it very difficult to wait until my car is properly broken in and enough miles on it to ensure nothings going to fail early....even if its safe to flash back i want at least 15-20k miles on my car before i start messing with stuff. 

but night and day difference? id love more details on what improved ect.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

crunch21 said:


> Your making it very difficult to wait until my car is properly broken in and enough miles on it to ensure nothings going to fail early....even if its safe to flash back i want at least 15-20k miles on my car before i start messing with stuff.
> 
> but night and day difference? id love more details on what improved ect.


I did mine with 7k I was leery as well.
My 0-60 was 8.3 stock 7.2 tuned and Jerry thinks it can get down to 7 0.
Boost stays where as stock ir doesnt hold long came pills hard and long now .

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## crunch21 (Jul 16, 2018)

alanl11 said:


> I did mine with 7k I was leery as well.
> My 0-60 was 8.3 stock 7.2 tuned and Jerry thinks it can get down to 7 0.
> Boost stays where as stock ir doesnt hold long came pills hard and long now .
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


well im going to get window tints first, then figure out how to cover the chrome interior pieces....THEN ill get the tune, though i REALLY want the tune just for transmission improvements...

I did read, and again this was buried in a forum post so take it with a grain of salt, but the 2018 cruze has better pistons than the older 2nd gen that were breaking pistons, and im pretty sure 90% of those who did blow a piston were using a tune...so if i can get a confirmation somewhere that the pistons are improved and there are no piston issues im be a **** of a lot less leery on picking up the tune asap.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

crunch21 said:


> well im going to get window tints first, then figure out how to cover the chrome interior pieces....THEN ill get the tune, though i REALLY want the tune just for transmission improvements...
> 
> I did read, and again this was buried in a forum post so take it with a grain of salt, but the 2018 cruze has better pistons than the older 2nd gen that were breaking pistons, and im pretty sure 90% of those who did blow a piston were using a tune...so if i can get a confirmation somewhere that the pistons are improved and there are no piston issues im be a **** of a lot less leery on picking up the tune asap.


Actually most of the piston problems were stock cars the tune will actually help prevent it. On big thing to consider is the fuel you use.
I started using 91 obtain as it helps prevent LSPI I believe the pistons in the 18's are improved. But tharmt was one reason I tuned was to help prevent piston problems.
GM is too concerned about squeezing every mpg out of the car so they tune ir for the 87 octsin.
Once I started using Premium the car responded and MPG'S actually went up.
And yes the tranny shifts much sharper and crisper now which is the main reason I did it as well.

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## crunch21 (Jul 16, 2018)

i live in southern arizona, read enough of those posts here and elsewhere, i actually watered down my original tank of gas i got off the dealer lot and have been debating driving decently out of the way for access to 95 octane ethanol free gas, which will be expensive. might swap to 89 once it starts getting reliably below 100 degrees. I honestly didnt notice much of a difference when i was running off pure 87 while i was breaking in the engine. 

ill probably pick up the BNR tune once i get around 10k miles on the car, especially if i can flash it back in the case of a mechanical failure and not have it void my warranty. Ill probably talk to the service manager at the dealer and see if they are certified to do warranty work without approval. 

With the BNR tune im wondering how it improves medium throttle acceleration. Right now its either in super eco mode going slow or its 3-4k full power (though not WOT), which is sort of annoying, all the roads out here are 45mph and people go 50-55 so pulling out and casually accelerating is a bad idea, but im not interested in racing to speed....if that makes sense.

Also did you ever notice a sort of bouncing sensation when lightly accelerating? if so did the BNR tune rid the sensation? Not sure if its just a quirk with turbocharged tiny engines or if its the tranny being lame.

Im really not impressed with GM's transmission tuning, ive driven chevys for years and they always had good transmissions. Probably a side effect of having peak torque so low, id much rather this engine peak out mid range so i can wind it out, its smooth but strange to drive. Granted other than a 90 diamond star eclipse ive only done N/A engines. That diamond star was how your suppose to do turbos, normal driving util 3500 then all out turbo madness until 6k. was a very coval turbo too, not sure what bean counter determined turbos were to be silent.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> Actually most of the piston problems were stock cars the tune will actually help prevent it. On big thing to consider is the fuel you use.
> I started using 91 obtain as it helps prevent LSPI I believe the pistons in the 18's are improved. But tharmt was one reason I tuned was to help prevent piston problems.
> GM is too concerned about squeezing every mpg out of the car so they tune ir for the 87 octsin.
> Once I started using Premium the car responded and MPG'S actually went up.
> ...


There are a few guys on youtube and facebook who had a tune and cracked the piston. 

As for GM tuning and recommending 87. 

EVERY car and motorcycle I've ever owned has recommended 87. 

My oldest vehicle being a 67 Olds. My first NEW purchase being a 82 Yamaha 650.


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

Can you explain what you mean by "Boost stays where as stock ir doesnt hold long came pills hard and long now." I can't make out this sentence


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> Can you explain what you mean by "Boost stays where as stock ir doesnt hold long came pills hard and long now." I can't make out this sentence


I have an ultra gauge that shows boost pressure and on stock I would have to watch it closely to see where it peaked with the tune ir doesnt peak for a split second only it stays boosting longer before opening the waste gate.

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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> There are a few guys on youtube and facebook who had a tune and cracked the piston.
> 
> As for GM tuning and recommending 87.
> 
> ...


That true about the "recomende" octain and sure your car will run fine what I'm saying is the car ECM Fuel table responds much better when it has a few tanks of high octain through it. Just because it's the recommended octain doesnt mean it's the BEST for your car. 
A hamburger and Prime rib are "beef" but which would you rather eat?

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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

alanl11 said:


> The logs files let's Jerry fine tune your car to the way you drive and any unique properties of your car.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Below are some quoted comments from various sources and some specs on the Cruz, Mazda 3 and Honda Civic. I have driven the Mazda 3 extensively. It's drives like a bat out of ****, but tends to be noisy. I have a 2018 Cruz Premier w/out the RS package. I wanted the 17" wheels for a more compliant drive. The Honda Civic is about 3/4 - 1 second faster at 0-60 than the Cruz. There is a reference made below to low turbo lag and a meaty (wide) powerband. On a very basic level, what could reasonably be on a wish list for improvements from BNR Tuning.


"In terms of the actual driving experience, the shape of the torque curve is probably more relevant to perceived performance. People want a car that will accelerate briskly from a stand-still, or in a passing maneuver, with the minimum of drama - they want a car that just accelerates without a lot of downshifting and (often rather harsh) high RPMs. Turbo engines tend to be more satisfying in this regard, as the turbo boost ensures strong torque at lower RPMs.


Torque is what provides that neck-snap feeling and is what provides car-passing acceleration. For the average driver, more torque is far more useful than what the HP is at 6k RPMs (the only problem with this is that most users only understand more HP =)"


CHEVY CRUZ



*177 ft-lbs. @ 2000 rpm**177 ft-lbs. @ 2000 rpm**Base Engine Size**1.4 L**Horsepower**153 hp @ 5600 rp*


Outfitted with the optional automatic, however, the Cruze is eager to accelerate and expertly avoids the weaker—and noisier—part of the engine’s rev range above 5500 rpm.


MAZDA 3




*185 ft-lbs. @ 3250 rpm*

*2.5 L*
*Horsepower**184 hp @ 5700 rpm*
*Turning Circle**34.8 ft.*
*Valves*


Despite the crisp throttle responses of Mazda’s two naturally aspirated Skyactiv inline-four engines, both lack the low-end torque provided by modern turbocharged engines.


HONDA CIVIC


*162 ft-lbs. @ 1700 rpm*
*2.0 L**Horsepower**174 hp @ 6000 rp*


Honda’s turbocharged 1.5-liter four-cylinder is a terrific engine. With little turbo lag and a meaty powerband, the small four-cylinder eagerly pulled our Civic Touring test car away from stoplights


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> snowwy66 said:
> 
> 
> > There are a few guys on youtube and facebook who had a tune and cracked the piston.
> ...


Burger. I'm not big on prime. ?


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## llbanks522 (Nov 23, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> Burger. I'm not big on prime. ?


Make mine medium-rare” please! ??


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Burger. I'm not big on prime. ?


Somehow I had a feeling you were going to say that LOL


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> Below are some quoted comments from various sources and some specs on the Cruz, Mazda 3 and Honda Civic. I have driven the Mazda 3 extensively. It's drives like a bat out of ****, but tends to be noisy. I have a 2018 Cruz Premier w/out the RS package. I wanted the 17" wheels for a more compliant drive. The Honda Civic is about 3/4 - 1 second faster at 0-60 than the Cruz. There is a reference made below to low turbo lag and a meaty (wide) powerband. On a very basic level, what could reasonably be on a wish list for improvements from BNR Tuning.
> "In terms of the actual driving experience, the shape of the torque curve is probably more relevant to perceived performance. People want a car that will accelerate briskly from a stand-still, or in a passing maneuver, with the minimum of drama - they want a car that just accelerates without a lot of downshifting and (often rather harsh) high RPMs. Turbo engines tend to be more satisfying in this regard, as the turbo boost ensures strong torque at lower RPMs.
> 
> 
> ...


*Chevy Cruze Tuned

269 ft-lbs. @ 2000 rpm** 
Engine Size 1.4L 
Horsepower 213 hp @ 5600 rpm

At least One second faster than stock (now as fast as the Honda)
keep in mind these are all estimates though.





*


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

Thanks. That sounds amazing. 50% more torque at same rpm. 33% more hp. I assume the rpm for torque and hp were kept at same "level" is that's the right word for a reason? Would you say that this is an aggressive tune? What did you originally ask for and how many iterations did you have to go thru to get to this point. Sounds like you used a stop watch to get approximate reading. Did you check how many seconds to go from 50-70? That's another metric Car and Driver uses.

Tuned compares favorably with BMW 328D in terms of raw speed.

HORSEPOWER (hp @ rpm)
180 @ 4000


TORQUE (lb-ft @ rpm)
280 @ 1750–2750


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> Thanks. That sounds amazing. 50% more torque at same rpm. 33% more hp. I assume the rpm for torque and hp were kept at same "level" is that's the right word for a reason? Would you say that this is an aggressive tune? What did you originally ask for and how many iterations did you have to go thru to get to this point. Sounds like you used a stop watch to get approximate reading. Did you check how many seconds to go from 50-70? That's another metric Car and Driver uses.
> 
> Tuned compares favorably with BMW 328D in terms of raw speed.
> 
> ...


Actually right now I have just the basic tune from Jerry I am waiting for him to look at my logs and fine tune ir. As far as HP and torque at the specified RPMS I dont know if those are accurate I don't have a dyno, Jerry would he the guy to get specific about that but the graphs i saw the values are pretty close to stock.
Yes I'd say it's an aggressive tune but the great thing about BNR once you buy a tune any other mods you make they will send you a new tune based off the data log you send after the mods I plan to do no other mods I really was looking to fix the tranny abs get rid of auto stop. The HP is a bonus.
Keeping the waste gate closed gives you the extra torque you mentioned it puts you back in your seat and keeps you there much longer than stock 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

re: "I really was looking to fix the tranny abs get rid of auto stop." 

What are your referring to by "abs"? I get the rest. The auto stop is a pain. On the 2019s, you can turn it off. Chevy gave in.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> re: "I really was looking to fix the tranny abs get rid of auto stop."
> 
> What are your referring to by "abs"? I get the rest. The auto stop is a pain. On the 2019s, you can turn it off. Chevy gave in.


Typo ment and 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

What needs fixing in the stock transmission?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

It shifts are very loose and larthergic IMO


rnbarg said:


> What needs fixing in the stock transmission?


Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Cruzen18 (Jan 28, 2018)

With the increased numbers, what differences have you noticed with your mileage? Any? Did you change fuel with the tune?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Cruzen18 said:


> With the increased numbers, what differences have you noticed with your mileage? Any? Did you change fuel with the tune?


Gas Mileage is at least the same, maybe better. And should get even better ONCE Jerry sends me my Log tune.


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## nightfallgrey2018 (Nov 15, 2017)

@alanl11. These numbers are quite impressive but my question is; it must be more than 1 second quicker than stock and when you say "as fast as the Honda" I am thinking much quicker. How were your test performed because these numbers are starting to pull me in.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

nightfallgrey2018 said:


> @alanl11. These numbers are quite impressive but my question is; it must be more than 1 second quicker than stock and when you say "as fast as the Honda" I am thinking much quicker. How were your test performed because these numbers are starting to pull me in.


I have a ultra gauge ir plugs into my OBDll
I can then monitor all sorts of PID's like Boost
Knock retard load, hp, torque, but it also has a 0-30 0-60 and 1/4 mile timer built into it.
So It eliminates reaction time. So it should be pretty accurate comparison stock times were 8.7 to 8.2
Tuned time was 7.5 to 7.2 when I posted it ,Jerry said he could probably get it to 7.0
I've noticed my slowest times late in the afternoon when very hot out. The 2 best were early morning around 7:30 am I bet they will get even better as fall approaches .
If you go for it tell Jerry Xrstoy1 sent ya.
And yes I had more than 5 hp I took the screen shot after obviously.









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## nightfallgrey2018 (Nov 15, 2017)

Thank you very much @alanl11.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

nightfallgrey2018 said:


> Thank you very much @alanl11.


Your welcome

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> Somehow I had a feeling you were going to say that LOL


I"m really not big on prime. 

NOW

If you woulda said filet mignon. I would have made a reservation somewhere that meets us halfway. 

Wives and gf's stay home of course. Kind of a guys night out thing. LOL


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I"m really not big on prime.
> 
> NOW
> 
> ...


Filet is good too can be gotten wherever there is Prime Rib LOL









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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Ya know. 

FDA warns against eating raw meat.


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## Cruzen18 (Jan 28, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Ya know.
> 
> FDA warns against eating raw meat.


Screw the FDA...What do they know? haha!

SO; when and where is this steak night out?!? ccasion14:


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

nightfallgrey2018 said:


> @*alanl11*. These numbers are quite impressive but my question is; it must be more than 1 second quicker than stock and when you say "as fast as the Honda" I am thinking much quicker. How were your test performed because these numbers are starting to pull me in.






There are a lot of numbers floating around about the 0-60 performance of the Cruze. Several Car and Driver tests from 2017 of the Cruze sedan show 7.6 seconds vs. 7.0 for the Civic. Another C&D test of the hatchback vs other hatchbacks showed 8.3 for the Cruze. Because of the weight of 18" wheels and tires, the RS might be a tad slower than the Premier w/out the RS and w/17" wheels. The rosiest production is for a sub 7.0 time if 1 second is have off. Note, as I will show in another post that the raw speed fo the Cruze is undercut by Chevy's decision re: how the transmission shifts which they widely panned. The Cruze sedan also performed quite well in accelerating between 50-70. In some respects it nearly the fastest (2nd, quietest (1st) and roomiest of the non-luxury car sedans.


https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-cruze-14t-automatic-review


https://www.caranddriver.com/review...omparison-test-2016-chevrolet-cruze-lt-page-4


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

nightfallgrey2018 said:


> @*alanl11*. These numbers are quite impressive but my question is; it must be more than 1 second quicker than stock and when you say "as fast as the Honda" I am thinking much quicker. How were your test performed because these numbers are starting to pull me in.


There are a lot of numbers floating around about the 0-60 performance of the Cruze. Several Car and Driver tests from 2017 of the Cruze sedan show 7.6 seconds vs. 7.0 for the Civic. Another C&D test of the hatchback vs other hatchbacks showed 8.3 for the Cruze. Because of the weight of 18" wheels and tires, the RS might be a tad slower than the Premier w/out the RS and w/17" wheels. This would suggest a sub 7.0 time with a one second improvement. Note, as I will show in another post that the raw speed fo the Cruze is undercut by Chevy's decision re: how the transmission shifts which they widely panned. The Cruze sedan also performed quite well in accelerating between 50-70. In some respects it nearly the fastest (2nd, quietest (1st) and roomiest of the non-luxury car sedans.


https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-cruze-14t-automatic-review


https://www.caranddriver.com/review...omparison-test-2016-chevrolet-cruze-lt-page-4


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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

alanl11 said:


> It shifts are very loose and larthergic IMO
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Perhaps this is what you are talking about - from C&D articles, suggesting 2nd Gen Cruze raw engine performance is undercut by GM's decisions w/reference to the transmission. Also suggests that it hurts cornering performance. This all makes a strong case for BNR tuning.

"That’s a big mass reduction, and it helps the 2016 Cruze scoot to 60 mph in 7.6 seconds, 1.3 seconds quicker than the previous 1.4T.

*This performance improvement is dramatic on paper, but it doesn’t feel like performance tuning. *This engine is set up to operate at a relaxed pace, more diesel-like than fire-breather. Peak torque comes on at just 2000 rpm, *and the six-speed automatic transmission chooses the highest gear possible to keep the engine in this zone.* Hold down the accelerator, and the engine rumbles toward its 5600-rpm horsepower peak, *but you won’t spend much time exploiting the 153 ponies unleashed there because the transmission upshifts between 5500 and 5700 rpm, well short of the 6500-rpm redline. *(One look at the engine’s power curve reveals the shift programming is no accident—horsepower drops off precipitously after the 5600-rpm peak, leaving little point in holding onto gears beyond that engine speed.) The shifts themselves are surprisingly quick and, yes, smooth.* The programming insists on choosing one gear above what a driver might choose, however, meaning that even when the transmission downshifts, the Cruze can feel flat-footed coming out of corners because it’s still in too high a gear. *The upshot is that revs are kept low nearly all of the time, which contributed to our observed fuel economy of 33 mpg, and this reliance on the engine’s low-rpm torque means even small throttle applications accelerate the Cruze *without an uncouth downshift*. Smooth."

QUESTIONS

What is a "small throttle application? What is an uncouth downshift?
......................................

"T*he turbocharged engine delivers a glut of torque* that the naturally aspirated engines can’t match. There’s a satisfying swell as the Cruze pulls away from a stoplight or merges onto a highway. The low-end grunt fades as revs climb, though, and the transmission compensates for a wheezy top end by *upshifting 1000 rpm short of redline at full throttle.* *But its 7.6-second run to 60 mph still makes the Cruze the quickest in this test by a wide margin.
*

The six-speed automatic executes snappy gearchanges, *only to be wasted on a tuning strategy designed to maximize fuel economy by short-shifting into a higher gear or hesitating to downshift when you apply throttle. *The Cruze is the only car in the test with *stop-start. *hmy:, yet that and its small-displacement engine weren’t enough to win the fuel-economy category outright. The Chevrolet tied our first- and second-place finishers at 33 mpg. Small-car fuel economy with large-car manners: It’s an interesting school of thought."

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...omparison-test-2016-chevrolet-cruze-lt-page-4

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-chevrolet-cruze-14t-automatic-review

COMMENTARY

My personal opinion is that the stop/start, while among what is reputed to be the least intrusive and seamless across many car segments, is unnatural and jarring. As soon as it activates, I put the car in L6. I have had occupants think something is wrong with the car when it engages in this weird aberrant behavior. The idea of lowering the AC on a hot day to achieve the stop start is, again for me, not an acceptable trade-off. GM now in 2019 allows you to turn it off. They listened to their customers. CAFE standards, however laudable as a public policy, create an incentive to use sleight of hand [gimmicks] (or brute force depending on your perspective) to achieve desired mpg metrics for marketing purposes. Cars today are a lot more intrusive. One of of the worst examples is the Mazda 3's HUD display, which you can't turn off either.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> Perhaps this is what you are talking about - from C&D articles, suggesting 2nd Gen Cruze raw engine performance is undercut by GM's decisions w/reference to the transmission. Also suggests that it hurts cornering performance. This all makes a strong case for BNR tuning.
> 
> "That’s a big mass reduction, and it helps the 2016 Cruze scoot to 60 mph in 7.6 seconds, 1.3 seconds quicker than the previous 1.4T.
> 
> ...


GM caved you will be able to disable auto stop on the 2019 models.

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## rnbarg (Apr 27, 2018)

Other than the 0-60 speed which is obvious, can you explain the other test results for a novice like me?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

rnbarg said:


> Other than the 0-60 speed which is obvious, can you explain the other test results for a novice like me?


The 0-60 speed is all I can really check without a Dyno, Those specs are from BNR's web sight if your referring to the HP and Torque gains. 
BNR TUNE 2016+ Chevrolet Cruze 1.4T LE2

But I can sure feel the differance


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Cruzen18 said:


> Screw the FDA...What do they know? haha!
> 
> SO; when and where is this steak night out?!? ccasion14:


I"m guessing most of you live on the east side. So. Whenever the humidity takes a hike. Cuz i can't stand that wet air you all got over there.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I"m guessing most of you live on the east side. So. Whenever the humidity takes a hike. Cuz i can't stand that wet air you all got over there.


I'm in the Chicago area where are you guys?


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## Cruzen18 (Jan 28, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I"m guessing most of you live on the east side. So. Whenever the humidity takes a hike. Cuz i can't stand that wet air you all got over there.


If by east side you mean east of Cinti, then yeah. :tongue4:


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Cruzen18 said:


> If by east side you mean east of Cinti, then yeah. ?


Everything east of the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas. 

Texas and Oklahoma come and go.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> I'm in the Chicago area where are you guys?


I"m slightly west of the rockies.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I"m slightly west of the rockies.


Half way would be quit a trip, But I do get to Oklahoma occasionally.


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