# Deletes.



## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

After watching videos of delete kits being installed on the new 6.7 Cummins trucks, I would like to do them on my Cruze when the warranty is up. The amount of soot that is pumped back into the engine through the egr system is ridiculous. Obviously it's way more on the trucks that with our 2L engine. 


Anyone else on here planning on deleting emissions? I would expect an increase in mpg. And it would be nice to run a straight pipe exhaust... And get rid of the def system... And quit pumping soot back into the engine


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

There are two systems for diesel emission control.
Cummins uses a Exaust Gas Recirculation system and injects a large amount of fuel ahead of the catalyst to act as a source of great heat to clean and enhance the effectivness of the catalyst.
A very wasteful and dirty way to do it.....and as noted, throws a rather large amount of particulate (soot.....falls as dust)
That method of control has its days numbered because there are stricter particulate percentages on the way.

The other method, utilizing diesel exaust fluid (street name 'Cow Piss' it is man made urea) injection also increases cat operating temperature and forces it to clean itself.......I don't think (someone will correct me) the Cruze diesel uses EGR of any sort.
I see no reason or benifit to removing /disabling the DEF system.....it is zero maintainence, inexpensive to replenish, and keeps the soot sensors happy.
Since it is fully a post cylinder head system there is no negative effect on power or engine operation.

I suggest you rethink this course of action.....you may cause yourself grief.

My thoughts/opinion,
Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I agree with Robby. Also, as a fellow Coloradan I have to deal with enough smelly diesels that we don't need another one on the roads. Please don't do this. Also, there's a reason the Cruze Diesel is considered a "Clean Diesel". It's because the emissions is very low on this car and it doesn't stink like an older diesel.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

There's also the simple little fact that _"...TAMPERING: modifying, altering, or deleting..." _ANY emissions equipment is a *federal offense*:

_"WARNING: Federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY emissions-related control device. The Environmental Protection Agency and most states have actually been rather lax about enforcing this rule on motorists, but they haven't hesitated to nail professional service facilities that have been guilty of tampering. Even so, the fines can be hefty. A violation may make you liable for up to a $2,500 fine!"

_...specifically, what EPA says (top of second page): http://www.epa.gov/otaq/highway-diesel/regs/420f12053.pdf


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## Cruze2.0Diesel (Jun 30, 2013)

EGR improves MPG by displacing fresh air, that increases fuel economy. Remember exhaust gas only flows during periods of light load, not during heavy loads or full throttle so maximum HP is also unaffected by EGR. Also the only time we inject extra fuel is when the system needs to do a regen and clean particulate filter. Sensors in the exhaust before and after the filter tell the computer when it needs to run a regen. The urea injection is basically ammonia that reduces NOx into N and O, it assists the reduction phase of a 3 way cat, it has nothing to do with particulate filter or a regen. The way we get rid of the EGR 'valve' is by increasing natural exhaust gas recirculation which takes place during valve overlap, variable cam timing. Yes it gets pretty nasty on the intake with EGR but the increase in fuel economy, reduction in combustion temp which allow high silicon content pistons which have tight cylinder wall tolerances, and reduction in harmful NOx emissions are a great trade off.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

70AARCUDA said:


> There's also the simple little fact that _"...modifying, altering, or deleting..." _ANY emissions equipment is a *federal offense*:
> 
> _"WARNING: Federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY emissions-related control device. The Environmental Protection Agency and most states have actually been rather lax about enforcing this rule on motorists, but they haven't hesitated to nail professional service facilities that have been guilty of tampering. Even so, the fines can be hefty. A violation may make you liable for up to a $2,500 fine!"
> 
> _...specifically, what EPA says (top of second page): http://www.epa.gov/otaq/highway-diesel/regs/420f12053.pdf


This law is specific to a individual contracting someone to modify/tamper with emission controls.
For example, it is illegal for you to contract me for this purpose. It is also illegal for me to perform this service for you.

It is not illegal, though, for me to tamper/modify my own vehicle.....that doesn't mean it is right.....just not illegal.

Rob


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Robby said:


> This law is specific to a individual contracting someone to modify/tamper with emission controls.
> For example, it is illegal for you to contract me for this purpose. It is also illegal for me to perform this service for you.
> 
> It is not illegal, though, for me to tamper/modify my own vehicle.....that doesn't mean it is right.....just not illegal.
> ...


Not really, but they (gooberment) has to PROVE the owner: (a) DID the tampering, (b) HAD someone do it for them, (c) or KNEW about it when acquiring the vehicle. Owning a tampered vehicle isn't against the law (yet), but the physical ACT of TAMPERING is...so, if YOU do it, you're guilty.

Thus, the only SAFE way to disable emission equipment is to have either the TOOTH-FAIRY or BOOGEY-MAN do it while YOU weren't watching, so YOU didn't know it was being done (wink,wink)!


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Cruze2.0Diesel said:


> EGR improves MPG by displacing fresh air, that increases fuel economy. Remember exhaust gas only flows during periods of light load, not during heavy loads or full throttle so maximum HP is also unaffected by EGR. Also the only time we inject extra fuel is when the system needs to do a regen and clean particulate filter. Sensors in the exhaust before and after the filter tell the computer when it needs to run a regen. The urea injection is basically ammonia that reduces NOx into N and O, it assists the reduction phase of a 3 way cat, it has nothing to do with particulate filter or a regen. The way we get rid of the EGR 'valve' is by increasing natural exhaust gas recirculation which takes place during valve overlap, variable cam timing. Yes it gets pretty nasty on the intake with EGR but the increase in fuel economy, reduction in combustion temp which allow high silicon content pistons which have tight cylinder wall tolerances, and reduction in harmful NOx emissions are a great trade off.


what he said


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

In some states it doesn't matter who tampers with the emissions system, your car will still fail emissions testing even if it's running clean.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

obermd said:


> In some states it doesn't matter who tampers with the emissions system, your car will still fail emissions testing even if it's running clean.


I deleted the cat and replaced it with the up pipe factory installed(stamped Subaru and everything) on the exact same car a model year later when they realized the cat caused turbo failures. In Virginia I pass visual, idle and plug n play but in Ohio I always fail visual.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Robby said:


> There are two systems for diesel emission control.
> Cummins uses a Exaust Gas Recirculation system and injects a large amount of fuel ahead of the catalyst to act as a source of great heat to clean and enhance the effectivness of the catalyst.
> A very wasteful and dirty way to do it.....and as noted, throws a rather large amount of particulate (soot.....falls as dust)
> That method of control has its days numbered because there are stricter particulate percentages on the way.
> ...



cruze uses egr

def system is not zero maintenance, if the computer thinks its out of def, cuz of bad sensor, broken wire, etc you derate....plus you have to refill the def to keep the computer happy


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I said zero maintainence and inexpensive to replenish.......maintainence referred to component replacement.
As I said, someone will chime in on whether EGR is used or not.....thanks for the info.

Rob


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

Robby said:


> I see no reason or benifit to removing /disabling the DEF system.....it is zero maintainence, inexpensive to replenish, and keeps the soot sensors happy.
> Since it is fully a post cylinder head system there is no negative effect on power or engine operation.
> 
> My thoughts/opinion,
> Rob


If you think THIS










doesn't rob power, then you are DEFinitely wrong. :biglaugha:

And this is only the rear most screen in the DEF catalyst. This thing is a huge restriction in our exhaust systems.

However, I will not remove it either. I think it is a bad idea...


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## farmallgray (Nov 28, 2013)

I hope our EGR system is better than what's used on the 6.0 powerstrokes. Those engines have a lot of problems caused by their EGR cooling system. I can't remember exactly what I was told, but I think when it fails it dumps coolant into the crankcase. I remember seeing something about it on Truck U tv show.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I'll bet if you put a pressure gauge ahead of and behind the def catalyst you would see no difference in pressure except at WOT....maybe.

If there was any restriction the EGR would go insane trying to compensate for positive exaust pressure......however, EGR is inop at WOT.

Maybe there is a bit of power hiding at the top of the rev/turbo scale but I doubt most operators would pound on the car to that extent......I believe mileage/good midrange is the motivaror for selecting this version.

Rob


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## Cruze2.0Diesel (Jun 30, 2013)

Robby said:


> I'll bet if you put a pressure gauge ahead of and behind the def catalyst you would see no difference in pressure except at WOT....maybe.
> 
> If there was any restriction the EGR would go insane trying to compensate for positive exaust pressure......however, EGR is inop at WOT.
> 
> ...


Hooking a backpressure gauge to test for plugged up cats I know a good cat has 0 PSI at idle and steady cruise with a maximum of 1 1/4 PSI allowed at idle and 2 1/4 at 2500 RPM. The only time you see reading jump off 0 at all is when you initially snap throttle, and it stays below 2 PSI on most cars. This picture of a busted weld is from something besides backpressure, you can't tell me a gasket is going to out hold a weld under pressure.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

New reason for the Hyperfailer Badge !
Do you 3 think he is listening ?


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

New reason for the Hyperfailer Badge !
Do you 3 think the OP is listening ?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

obermd said:


> In some states it doesn't matter who tampers with the emissions system, your car will still fail emissions testing even if it's running clean.


Part of bypassing these systems correctly works just like the aftermarket tunes so many run around here, the CEL is not displayed even though their is modifications to the car. Most emission testing places here just check for stored codes and if all tests have been preformed on the cars emission system(codes not just cleared), they would not inspect the car at all. 

Wisconsin has 72 counties, only like 7 along lake Michigan require emission testing, there is also no vehicle inspections in any county. I would not mess with the DEF system, but suspect if possible others will make it happen.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Just because it's ILLEGAL is no sign people won't DO it.

In jolly'old England, such people were called OUTLAWS because they operated "outside" of the LAW. Today, we just call them car owners who don't_ know _any better (wink,wink).


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Cruze2.0Diesel said:


> Hooking a backpressure gauge to test for plugged up cats I know a good cat has 0 PSI at idle and steady cruise with a maximum of 1 1/4 PSI allowed at idle and 2 1/4 at 2500 RPM. The only time you see reading jump off 0 at all is when you initially snap throttle, and it stays below 2 PSI on most cars. This picture of a busted weld is from something besides backpressure, you can't tell me a gasket is going to out hold a weld under pressure.


It's from a cutting wheel  

Danny posted in a thread awhile back various pics of the exhaust. They promptly welded it back together after according to his original thread.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Cruze2.0Diesel said:


> Hooking a backpressure gauge to test for plugged up cats I know a good cat has 0 PSI at idle and steady cruise with a maximum of 1 1/4 PSI allowed at idle and 2 1/4 at 2500 RPM. The only time you see reading jump off 0 at all is when you initially snap throttle, and it stays below 2 PSI on most cars. This picture of a busted weld is from something besides backpressure, you can't tell me a gasket is going to out hold a weld under pressure.


i thought the pic was from when he wanted to remove it, thinking it was a resonator, dont believe it was a weld failure


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Cruze2.0Diesel said:


> Hooking a backpressure gauge to test for plugged up cats I know a good cat has 0 PSI at idle and steady cruise with a maximum of 1 1/4 PSI allowed at idle and 2 1/4 at 2500 RPM. The only time you see reading jump off 0 at all is when you initially snap throttle, and it stays below 2 PSI on most cars. This picture of a busted weld is from something besides backpressure, you can't tell me a gasket is going to out hold a weld under pressure.


That broken weld photo was actually a cut off......the OP had decided to take a peek with thoughts towards removal.......Post from several months ago.
I believe he decided that was a bad idea and re welded it back together.

Rob


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I like the fact that my diesel is clean. I am also happy with the performance. I am curious to see how everything will hold up over time. At the rate I currently drive, I will hit 100K miles sometime next year most likely.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Cruze2.0Diesel said:


> This picture of a busted weld is from something besides backpressure, you can't tell me a gasket is going to out hold a weld under pressure.


It's not a busted weld. He posted another thread about looking to modify the system and made that cut himself before he realized it was an emissions component, not a resonator, and welded it back up.

As for modifying the exhaust, as much as I don't like all the junk on it (for possible failure reasons, not loss of power), I'll pass on modifying. As many TDI guys have found out, "ripping it out" is nearly as expensive as replacing it in the first place, and at least for me personally, I don't need extra power. This engine runs just fine with the systems in place. After factoring in the cost of replacing all the pipes and modifying the ECU, deleting is expensive and illegal, so no thanks.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

So, why then, do the truck owners that do the deletes on their trucks see an increase in mpg? I know the power comes from the tune, but they see 5-10 mpg increase and on a big truck that is huge. Take a look at this at 3:00 you can see all the soot that is sent back in. That stuff just falls out. Looks like a friggin chimney! 6.7 cummins EGR/DPF delete kit part 1 - YouTube So maybe a cat isn't restrictive. But you cannot seriously sit there and say a DPF is not restrictive. It is highly restrictive to collect the soot. And as it collects more soot it becomes more restrictive, which would make your car less efficient, right? Then it does a regen...which burns even more fuel. Now I am not complaining about the mpg on the car, it's great. But with the right tuner to fool the computer about the emissions parts, how could sending 0 soot back into the engine be bad at all? And assuming that I live in a county without an emissions test, then no one would look at my car. Also, the DEF system, yeah it doesn't really do anything as far as performance, but if you were going to remove the EGR/DPF system, why not just get rid of that too and drop in a spare tire? This is just a far out idea of mine. If no one comes out with a kit for this (and that will probably never happen), then I would not even bother to try to do it on my own. If it does happen, sorry for the extra diesel "smell" lol.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

So assuming that you do not live in a county that does emission testing, how could this possibly be bad for the vehicle? Those that do the deletes on Cummins trucks always say they wish they had done it sooner. The only reason that diesels these days have egr/dpf systems is because the government is regulating emissions. My old 2000 Toyota Camry had an egr system, but a model year 2000 diesel truck did not.
So maybe the def catalyst does not restrict exhaust, but the dpf certainly does. And it gets worse as it fills up. Then it lowers your mpg with a regen. Not that the mpg on this car is bad, but if the warranty is up why not improve it even more with a delete kit (assuming there is one)


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

spacedout said:


> Part of bypassing these systems correctly works just like the aftermarket tunes so many run around here, the CEL is not displayed even though their is modifications to the car. Most emission testing places here just check for stored codes and if all tests have been preformed on the cars emission system(codes not just cleared), they would not inspect the car at all.
> 
> Wisconsin has 72 counties, only like 7 along lake Michigan require emission testing, there is also no vehicle inspections in any county. I would not mess with the DEF system, but suspect if possible others will make it happen.


In Ohio only a few counties test emissions and I live in one of them. When it comes to concealed carry my county doesn't issue permits. 


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## Cruze2.0Diesel (Jun 30, 2013)

titanman2789 said:


> So, why then, do the truck owners that do the deletes on their trucks see an increase in mpg? I know the power comes from the tune, but they see 5-10 mpg increase and on a big truck that is huge. Take a look at this at 3:00 you can see all the soot that is sent back in. That stuff just falls out. Looks like a friggin chimney! 6.7 cummins EGR/DPF delete kit part 1 - YouTube So maybe a cat isn't restrictive. But you cannot seriously sit there and say a DPF is not restrictive. It is highly restrictive to collect the soot. And as it collects more soot it becomes more restrictive, which would make your car less efficient, right? Then it does a regen...which burns even more fuel. Now I am not complaining about the mpg on the car, it's great. But with the right tuner to fool the computer about the emissions parts, how could sending 0 soot back into the engine be bad at all? And assuming that I live in a county without an emissions test, then no one would look at my car. Also, the DEF system, yeah it doesn't really do anything as far as performance, but if you were going to remove the EGR/DPF system, why not just get rid of that too and drop in a spare tire? This is just a far out idea of mine. If no one comes out with a kit for this (and that will probably never happen), then I would not even bother to try to do it on my own. If it does happen, sorry for the extra diesel "smell" lol.


If you put in a performance tune that starts dumping black smoke like we all see those cummins guys doing, then yes the DPF is going to be plugged up and full of soot in no time at all. It just isn't health, think about the kids.


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

The stage 3 Fleece tune warns about this. You will have to do more frequent regens while running it


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

Cruze2.0Diesel said:


> If you put in a performance tune that starts dumping black smoke like we all see those cummins guys doing, then yes the DPF is going to be plugged up and full of soot in no time at all. It just isn't health, think about the kids.


That is why you would get rid of the restrictive exhaust system and egr system. This is after warranty expires, of course. 

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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

I have a Duramax that on the highest tune is around 530hp and 1000ftlbs and it will lay a pretty big cloud (which I have grown to dislike). There are a lot of people that give diesel truck owners a bad name with all the "coal rolling" they do. I will admit when I first got my truck I liked to do that but I have grown up. 

There is a shift toward clean power in the diesel truck community and I am happy to see it. You are always going to have the idiots that just go around blowing black smoke thinking they are super cool. I will agree with what someone said in this thread about the newer trucks gaining MPG and performance from the deletes. Read any truck forum and you will see just how big of a difference it makes. A good clean EFI live tune with all the emissions deleted in the newer Duramax's increases efficiency immensely. 

I see both sides of the whole deleting emissions equipment but IF it is done right it won't be dumping black smoke everywhere like people assume. If something is out there when warranty is up that deletes everything while providing more power and better MPG I would definitely be interested.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

If I were to do it I would send my ECU to a tuner in the UK. They have a lot of experience with tuning the EDC17. It is encrypted so there will never be a way to talk to it through the OBD port. I would also buy a spare EDC17 and have a stock clone made in case things ever go wrong. Then the tuner could delete the DPF,DEF,SCR,EGR,DOC and any other acronyms I forgot. Then a straight pipe could be made and the car could breath free like in the good old days. Like my old 1981 chevy chevette isuzu diesel. It got 46 MPG without a computer. Imagine that. I know how to do all of this but whats stopping me is just the cost. I figure it would cost about $2000. I figure I would get about a 4 MPG increase so its simply cost prohibitive. Then what do I do when I want to sell the car ? Find someone who appreciates all my hard work and illegal mods ? Or put everything back to stock. The other option is emulators. The DPF uses differential pressure to determine clogging and regeneration. The sensor works off of voltage. 0 volts is clean 5 volts is clogged and needs regen. If the ECU sees the correct volts it will think the DPF is clean. There is an emulator out there but the problem is that if the DPF doesnt regenerate after a certain amount of time the ECU will call for a regeneration and a regen without a DPF installed would be pretty smokey.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

DieselMan33 said:


> I see both sides of the whole deleting emissions equipment but IF it is done right it won't be dumping black smoke everywhere like people assume. If something is out there when warranty is up that deletes everything while providing more power and better MPG I would definitely be interested.


That is exactly my point. I did not bring this up because I want to roll coal in my Cruze. If there is a kit in the future, doing deletes would be for longevity and maybe an increase in mpg. It will be interesting to see how these emissions systems hold up when compared to the new trucks out there. I know they have caused people lots of problems in the trucks. At some point I would expect the egr system to become clogged with soot and fail. It just might take a little longer on these cars since we have a 2.0L vs over 6L engine



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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

DieselMan33 said:


> I see both sides of the whole deleting emissions equipment but IF it is done right it won't be dumping black smoke everywhere like people assume. If something is out there when warranty is up that deletes everything while providing more power and better MPG I would definitely be interested.





titanman2789 said:


> I did not bring this up because I want to roll coal in my Cruze. If there is a kit in the future, doing deletes would be for longevity and maybe an increase in mpg.


I believe the major 'push-back' emphasis here is that: 

(1) Reputable KITS are unlikely because it's ILLEGAL to install them;

(2) Reputable SHOPS are unlikely to perform either the modifications OR the KIT installations because (for them) BOTH are ILLEGAL; and,

(3) While the powertrain Warranty might only have a FIVE year duration, the EPA Emission Requirement(s) have NO time limit.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

I dont think we ever see a kit either. The "kit" will be to change or modify your ECU and then take your car to an exhaust shop and have a new exhaust system made. The EGR can be closed during tuning as well. I would love to see someone do it and see what kind of numbers the car could produce.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

I disagree. If that were the case then you would not see kits for trucks. 

Demand will be the deciding factor. And since there doesn't seem to be much of any...


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

You can do a Chip tune to dial every back so far with out removing any thing and still be a win win situation . You would have to send your ECM off and it takes a few days for a turn around .


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## Cruze2.0Diesel (Jun 30, 2013)

Here are a couple pics of the exhaust system.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Nice pics. thanks.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

brian v said:


> New reason for the Hyperfailer Badge !
> Do you 3 think the OP is listening ?


I really don't know what these hyper badge things are but why would I care if a proven delete kit/tune could get me even higher mpg and make my car last longer by not recirculating soot back into the motor

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## Nellie (Oct 27, 2013)

titanman2789 said:


> I really don't know what these hyper badge things are but why would I care if a proven delete kit/tune could get me even higher mpg and make my car last longer by not recirculating soot back into the motor
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Titanman I'm with u. I will be deleting mine as soon as warranty is up. All the emission crap ain't good no matter what people say. It's ruining the motors.


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

I have been in the middle of the emissions stuff. I can see the good and I can see the bad. My problem with the DPF is the fact that in some vehicles equipped with it that it will tell you to keep driving until clean. That is just dumb, why have something on a vehicle that makes you drive more, burning more fuel to clean it? It makes the owner feel like they have to drive a long way just so they do not have problems. If I need to run to the store that is 2 minutes away, I do not want to have to worry about plugging anything. 

With my Cruze, I do A LOT of city driving running errands short distances etc. I have yet to have a message come up about DPF or have any problems but as the temp warms up if I start having that issue it will be irritating. Cars are meant to be driven to where you need to go or want to go. No since in having something on the car that can disrupt that.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

DieselMan33 said:


> I have been in the middle of the emissions stuff. I can see the good and I can see the bad. My problem with the DPF is the fact that in some vehicles equipped with it that it will tell you to keep driving until clean. That is just dumb, why have something on a vehicle that makes you drive more, burning more fuel to clean it? It makes the owner feel like they have to drive a long way just so they do not have problems. If I need to run to the store that is 2 minutes away, I do not want to have to worry about plugging anything.
> 
> With my Cruze, I do A LOT of city driving running errands short distances etc. I have yet to have a message come up about DPF or have any problems but as the temp warms up if I start having that issue it will be irritating. Cars are meant to be driven to where you need to go or want to go. No since in having something on the car that can disrupt that.


...and, THAT dear readers is *why* GM needs to go back to their drawing boards and design a BETTER *Pee & Vinegar *system for the Cruze.


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

It is not the DEF, it is the DPF that causes most of the problems.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Sorry, I was using "*Pee & Vinegar*" _system_ to denote the *whole* system.


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## ParisTNDude (Oct 7, 2013)

I thought I was going to remove the EPA required equipment on a used car some time back and found it to be a very time consuming project, but not only that, when I was all done, my car ran like crap and it never recovered. That was prior to the current industry standard of letting computers manage your cars systems. I wouldn't modify or remove any part of my Cruze to avoid screwing up a great running and efficient vehicle.


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## Hack (Jul 10, 2013)

I removed every bit of emissions related junk from my Pontiac a few years ago. EVAP solenoids, canisters and lines, rear O2, etc etc, then removed all the wiring from the harness. 

Love it, never looked back. 

Car passes inspection no problem, only runs an O2 heater test as far as readiness monitors go

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

If a delete becomes half the price of a new dpf, Im all in but unless you have some alley mechanic buddy with the tools/knowhow, good luck doing it cheap or even finding the type of person who will do it illegally and actually know what they're doing.... Some of you might be that crafty, Im sure as **** not


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> If a delete becomes half the price of a new dpf, Im all in but unless you have some alley mechanic buddy with the tools/knowhow, good luck doing it cheap or even finding the type of person who will do it illegally and actually know what they're doing.... Some of you might be that crafty, Im sure as **** not


That's why I say a kit. Well, a kit and a tuner to remove codes so the car will run. 

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## sx sonic (Nov 25, 2013)

If I had a diesel I would sure as sh!t want an EGR and pee pee injection delete. Garbage systems that aren't far removed from the plague that was the gas learning curve of the 70s.

How much do these systems cost to R&D and equip? What's the maintenance schedule of them? How long will they last (ask some ford guys)? What happens when they fail?.......................... Now what do these systems add to the car? What purpose do they really serve? 

Plain and simple ALL they do is reduce emissions with no gain in any other regards, infact AT BEST they don't impede overall efficiency such as power and/or economy. Now if you think EGR is good consider this bit of fact; why do no current gas engines (or practically any German gasser, ever) use EGR.

But they add weight, complexity (that some O.E.M.s can't conquer yet), regular minor maintenance, occasional major maintenance, if it fails a cluster F*ck for the owner, extra weight to slug around (mpg anyone?), and often a decrease in performance and fuel economy (what mpg were some of the older VWs common for!?!?).

But It's for reduced emissions right and that is, overall a great and Nobel effort. But also consider this (atleast the NA market), light diesel engines, pickups and more so cars, comprise a minuscule, itsy bitsy portion of our diesel fuel consumption and an even smaller portion of its emissions. An increase in passenger car fuel economy more or less equates to lower emissions per mile because less fuel and thus less "bad stuff is being burned"; even better is w/o all this crap it is far less likely have its emissions controls severely defeated outside the warranty period (because who buys old cars and who can afford EGR or Urea syst repairs?), and the added efficiency would further reduce our demand for "foreign" oil, which apparently doesn't matter with fuel effecient diesels.



Now compare that to low sulfur diesel fuel or even better, common rail injection. The former substantially reduced a nasty byproduct without much penalty (higher fuel cost, loss of a high pressure lubricant)..... The latter was responsible for lower emissions, quieter running, more power, and better fuel economy...... At the expense of a little more cost............. Oh and particulate filters, they reduce emissions at the expense of alil power, economy, and cost but they aren't as potential of a headache to owners as the intial systems.



I can't disagree with anyone that would want to remove something that, if failed would render a car inoperable for no real reason other than it is polluting more (......but less than 5 semis, arbitrary #).

Rant/


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

just got the bill for work truck 6.6 duramax....egr cooler and dpf replaced

$4200.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

boraz said:


> just got the bill for work truck 6.6 duramax....egr cooler and dpf replaced
> 
> $4200.


Key word - replaced. Should have just deleted lol

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I doubt it's quite as expensive in the states but not cheap 

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

titanman2789 said:


> Key word - replaced. Should have just deleted lol
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


the same work done on our 500hp 200,000 lb haul trucks wouldve been less expensive, its silly


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

boraz said:


> just got the bill for work truck 6.6 duramax....egr cooler and dpf replaced
> 
> $4200.


My 2004 f450 with the 6.0 turbo diesel work truck I used to drive had the egr done. $4500. So dpf as well doesn't seem that bad


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

money_man said:


> My 2004 f450 with the 6.0 turbo diesel work truck I used to drive had the egr done. $4500. So dpf as well doesn't seem that bad


That motor is one of the worst ever built.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

True. After the 350 diesel gm had in the 80's


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

DieselMan33 said:


> That motor is one of the worst ever built.


It really is bad from the factory but once you know what needs done and tend to it, it's just fine. Not saying you're wrong but with some TLC it can be good and reliable.


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> It really is bad from the factory but once you know what needs done and tend to it, it's just fine. Not saying you're wrong but with some TLC it can be good and reliable.


True but it says something when ford is on their 4th different diesel engine and GM still has the 6.6...The duramax has had its share of early problems but at least they did not bail on it and go to another engine like ford.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

Wow seeing some of these numbers, I better start saving for if/when my emissions system goes. If it lasts 200,000 miles I will be very happy. 

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## danhr (Apr 19, 2014)

Deleting emissions voids your warranty.

Deleting the DPF will get you much better mileage (and an almost negligible amount of performance)

Come my 100,000 mile mark on my odometer, mine is coming right off and going straight to the scrap yard (IIRC I got ~$350 for the DPF off of my LMM Duramax)


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