# Air conditioning



## au201 (May 18, 2013)

They sell them without air conditioners?? I didn't even know that haha. Anyways I can't be of any real help, but it seems like that project would be tough. There's probably some computer programming that will stop you in your tracks. 


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Don't dare drive kids anymore with the windows down, way too many road hazards.

Last time I ran into this was buying a dealer installed kit for a Honda, a new climate control with AC was in the kit. Price was 1,200 bucks, but was back in the 80's. Also R-12 was used and easy, could just pour in the proper amount of mineral oil, draw a vacuum, and feed in R-12 using the sight gauge when the OAT was above 85*F for a proper charge.

No such kit available for the Cruze to my knowledge, and then there is the V-5 compressor, R-134a, PAG oil, and no sight glass. So do need special equipment, draw a deep vacuum first, then inject the PAG, if you don't, moisture in the system results in sludge and your compressor will not last very long. Special firmware for the AC, could question is does your BCM have the ability to even handle this firmware, then the climate control. Plus you have to weigh in the refrigerant.

Hate to say this, but with this and all the other options you show a desire for, do not feel you received a very good deal.

Since the 80's, replacement parts have literally skyrocketed. If you live in Wisconsin with strong salvage yard liability laws, will quickly learn they want MSRP for old junk parts.


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

Nickd, what is the bcm? May be replaced? I am not giving up, I know it may be a project, but I still beleive it can be done... Looking for workshop service manual for cheap to help me trough this plus regular maintenance... Any idea where to get one for cheap? Cruzetalk users gave me tips, still looking at this


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

BCM = Body Control Module. One of the several interactive computers on the Cruze that controls most of the electronic functions within the interior and lighting. It doesn't control the engine (ECM) or the transmission (TCM) in automatics. The computers are generally set up for specific models and loaded with firmware for the specific car and it's as built options. I have no idea if the one in your car can be programmed to control the A/C as these functions also interact with the engine in the Cruze. Programming the various control modules in a GM vehicle usually requires special programming only available at a dealership or at an independent shop that has paid many thousands of dollars for the computer and software license. The software is proprietary GM software, so it's not likely to be found on e-bay or the like. The Cruze has a GM proprietary network for much of the wiring that connects things to the control modules and between the modules themselves. Even if you get all of the physical hardware bits to bolt together, getting the A/C system to "talk" to the rest of the vehicle will be a bigger challenge.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

No A/C seems strange, are you sure that it hasn't been removed for some reason? I don't know of any car that comes without it in the last 10 years or so.


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

It is one option here too, a Cruze without it has been the cheapest option. But we have used to drive cars without any luxury. At least the older people, youngsters have used to get everything better.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Feel Jim did a good job of explaining the BCM, also data linked to the other four microcontroller devices in the Cruze. My electronic engineering degree, FCC, and FAA certifications, plus HVAC and MVAC 608/609 certifications don't help me a bit when handed a BCM with OE stock numbers on it. Would take months of work to decode it and a heck of a lot easier to compile source code into a machine language then to even attempt the reverse. Further complicated by embedding a good share of the code locked up tight in the processor it self. And with one wrong brush on the wrong pin, can reset the code.

Would call that purchasing a Honda without AC was a live and learn experience. Kit made it easier with instructions, but still was a major job, dash had to be pulled all apart plus major changes to belt drive train, then mounting the evaporator. Plus had a ton of parts left over that were worthless. But was a self contained independent system.

One reason I am vehemently against dealer installed items. Installing fog lamps was bad enough having about 70 bucks worth of useless parts left over. But don't feel mounting floor mats requires a great deal of knowledge.

Ha, one would think, with logic, would supply rubber floor mats in the first place, cheaper, more practical, but charge extra if you wanted carpeted floor mats. And supplying a vehicle that indubitably requires splash shields to prevent stone chips is another stupid idea. Tees me off. Stone chips are not covered by the warranty. 

What, no door sills or protect door moldings? Use to be standard on all cars like windshield molding. Least the Cruze had that, ran, not walked from a new Camry because that car didn't have that all important windshield weather strip.

But these are small items compared to your list of things to do.

Think I would be looking into trading it off and getting something you want. Live and learn.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Bullet said:


> It is one option here too, a Cruze without it has been the cheapest option. But we have used to drive cars without any luxury. At least the older people, youngsters have used to get everything better.


I understand A/C being optional in Finland, but places like USA and Australia it is really needed as summers can get very hot. I have seen 47C on my outside temperature since I bought my Cruze 18 months ago, and that is in Sydney west.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Our temperature here in Central Wisconsin can swing from -45*F up to 110*F, but not as bad as South Dakota where it can get up to 125*F.

Wife is from Venezuela with temperature swings of 65*F up to 80*F, never even heard of a central HVAC system or AC in cars. Ha, wouldn't mind living in Venezuela, but certainly would need a pile of guns. Not allowed to have those down there. Can't win.


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

Aussie said:


> I understand A/C being optional in Finland, but places like USA and Australia it is really needed as summers can get very hot. ....


I know, I know. I have friends in Canberra.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I wonder if it was a Canadian car? I never looked on the CAN Cruze site to see what options were like.


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

Aussie said:


> No A/C seems strange, are you sure that it hasn't been removed for some reason? I don't know of any car that comes without it in the last 10 years or so.


I live in Cnada, Maubert that´s why... Not as hot as in thé states


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

Jim Frye said:


> I wonder if it was a Canadian car? I never looked on the CAN Cruze site to see what options were like.


Bought the car in Canada, i guess they make them without ac for here, I live in Québec, Canada... We have Cold weather here, does not climb as hot as in the states...


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

yanstonge said:


> I live in Cnada, Maubert that´s why... Not as hot as in thé states


Sorry Aussi, my autocorrector was on, strange wording on my last post...


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

In winter here I use the A/C with the heater and the car is warm inside and completely frost free on the windows. It only gets to about 0C but that is still cold, just not freezing like you guys get.


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

Jim Frye said:


> BCM = Body Control Module. One of the several interactive computers on the Cruze that controls most of the electronic functions within the interior and lighting. It doesn't control the engine (ECM) or the transmission (TCM) in automatics. The computers are generally set up for specific models and loaded with firmware for the specific car and it's as built options. I have no idea if the one in your car can be programmed to control the A/C as these functions also interact with the engine in the Cruze. Programming the various control modules in a GM vehicle usually requires special programming only available at a dealership or at an independent shop that has paid many thousands of dollars for the computer and software license. The software is proprietary GM software, so it's not likely to be found on e-bay or the like. The Cruze has a GM proprietary network for much of the wiring that connects things to the control modules and between the modules themselves. Even if you get all of the physical hardware bits to bolt together, getting the A/C system to "talk" to the rest of the vehicle will be a bigger challenge.


Thanks for the info, very valuable to me... Starting to understand that there will be no ac in my car... However, if anyone is aware of anybody that built it or any existing kit or any other valuable information, feel free to write it up here, I keep have a very slight fear...


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

NickD said:


> Now they are talking about switching to HFO-1234yf because R-134a is now being blamed for global warming. Requires all new equipment for servicing. And the projected selling price is way over 2,000 bucks for a 30# cylinder. So much for environmentally friendly R-134a.


Could someone explain to me why when most of the world's A/C equipped cars are north of the equator only the southern part of the planet has a hole in the ozone layer blamed on CFC's? and R-12 Aussie.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Aussie said:


> Could someone explain to me why when most of the world's A/C equipped cars are north of the equator only the southern part of the planet has a hole in the ozone layer blamed on CFC's? and R-12 Aussie.


I bet it has something to do with being "down under".:1poke:


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

Ozone layer has holes in both poles, in north also. It is somehow because the globe is rotating.


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

NickD said:


> .... Lead when crossing the blood brain barrier makes people very aggressive with poor decisions. Kind of explains our leadership...


 I couldn't agree more....

We have here few small plants making fuel from waste produced in cowsheds and in stables. That production still is a minority even in our small country.


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

Getting offtrack here... is it me or OP main concerns are a little left away sometimes? Asking if an AC system can be installed, getting into the ozone layer discussion...  OP is looking for an answer..

You guys have a great day! 

Yan


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I once had an after market A/C fitted, do people still do this or have they died out because most cars have A/C standard?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> I once had an after market A/C fitted, do people still do this or have they died out because most cars have A/C standard?


Haha, I haven't seen those in a car since the 70s. My moms 74 BMW has a factory option AC unit between the dash and center hump. Not sure if something like this would be an option in a modern car.









OP, there is quite a bit of stuff that would need to be added, but I should think all the factory parts will bolt right into that car. There's a LOT of stuff missing though. Condenser, evaporator, ac lines, dryer, compressor, etc. You'd more or less have to disassemble most of your car to install this stuff I reckon. 


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Haha, I haven't seen those in a car since the 70s. My moms 74 BMW has a factory option AC unit between the dash and center hump. Not sure if something like this would be an option in a modern car.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't laugh but it was in the late 70's that I had it done and the cars air vents were used. It would be a big job to install from scratch in a Cruze, it could work out cheaper to just trade for a car with A/C?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, you mean something like this?










You were far better off to carry a bucket of water, dip an old tee shirt in it, and wrap that around your head.

Back in the old days, servicing an AC system was easy using a York compressor with a sight glass sump for the lubrication. One glance and you knew your oil was okay. This didn't last long, went to the tantamount to the two cycle engine where you mix the oil with the gas, but in AC oil with the refrigerant.

In either case with and oil leak, only way to get in the correct mixture was to drain all the old oil and add the correct amount. Too lean, your compressor would seize, too rich, could oil slug your compressor and wreck it plus reduce cooling for a lesser case.

Compounding even worse with R-134a with sludge type PAG, system had to be completely flush out, new dryer always, draw a deep vacuum, then inject the oil. Average cost for repairs jumped to around 1,500-2000 bucks to do it right. If not done right, a new compressor would only work for maybe a week or two.

Another is the condenser, parallel flow, if the compressor did seize, no other choice than to replace it, impossible to clean these thing. Never had this problem with a tube and fin condenser, but necessary in R-134a due to the extra heat load.

That debris left in the system will kill that new compressor.

Shocked the EPA permits these death kits like at Walmart, contain either a seal moisturizer or a compound that changes to a solid to stop a leak. Neither work, and the gauges on these things are so poor, can be 20 psi off on the low side, and even blow up your system. Then it assumes you are low on refrigerant, when the electronics has become so complex, this may well be the problem.

Also required to have recovery equipment, another bad joke from the EPA, let the OE's do anything they want to, but will fine a tech $25,000 if he releases just an ounce of R-134a, but like immigration, certainly not enforceable. But when I see a system, pressures are zero, not a drop of refrigerant left to recover. 

If you know the difference between the manufactured cost of a product and the MSRP, no way can you come out ahead. Paying at least 10-150 times as much for the MSRP. In computing manufacturing cost, had to use five significant digits, and you better not be even a single cent over the predetermined price.


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

Thanks for the advices, guys, I will get a bucket of cold water with ice.... Ha Ha! seriously, all advices are against installation, even tough I had good hopes, I guess I'll just try as is (summers in Quebec are not so hot) and if too tough, will check for an other vehicle with AC... Thanks again to everyone's input...

Yan


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, didn't mean to discourage you, but certainly not a five minute job. Would need a nice work space with plenty of tools, and a spare vehicle to drive. In my younger days with young kids, projects like this would start at 8:00 PM after they were tucked into bed. Who needs sleep, LOL.

Wife and I take our grandkids for a weekend, kind of forgot about terrible two's, sure wear us out. If your wife is working like most wife's have to, she is probably worn out too. Would definitely need a shop manual, plus a parts manual for a job like this, and a CC with a good limit the way car parts are priced today.


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

NickD said:


> Ha, didn't mean to discourage you, but certainly not a five minute job. Would need a nice work space with plenty of tools, and a spare vehicle to drive. In my younger days with young kids, projects like this would start at 8:00 PM after they were tucked into bed. Who needs sleep, LOL.
> 
> Wife and I take our grandkids for a weekend, kind of forgot about terrible two's, sure wear us out. If your wife is working like most wife's have to, she is probably worn out too. Would definitely need a shop manual, plus a parts manual for a job like this, and a CC with a good limit the way car parts are priced today.


Thanks NickD, will take your advice.... And forget about it....


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Just a thought, I have good quality window tint in my Cruze and it is really affective at keeping heat out even in our hot sun while the car is parked waiting to pick up my wife. I have to open other windows but when the sun is on my side I leave my window up and it works great. Just make sure you get the good stuff, it costs a bit more but well worth it. I paid $280A and it came with a lifetime guarantee.


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## yanstonge (Mar 2, 2014)

Great idea, aussie, never tought of that, 300$ for keeping great part of heat outside is great, that along with sunshade when parked.... Thanks!

yan


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Sure was a noticeable difference in purchasing an all white Cruze with a highly reflective light tan interior. With the car sitting out in the hot sun, only get a puff of warm air when opening the door. Not a blast of heat with my old dark red Cavalier with black seats.

They call this being practical, in FAA tests on aircraft, surface can be as much as 100*F cooler by using white as opposed to black.

Ha, wanted an all black Supra, cool color, but only the color is cool. But handy for frying an egg on the hood when the sun is out.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

NickD said:


> Sure was a noticeable difference in purchasing an all white Cruze with a highly reflective light tan interior. With the car sitting out in the hot sun, only get a puff of warm air when opening the door.


Only problem with a white car is I live in Wisconsin and white & silver cars are not as safe in the winter. Much harder to see a white car parked on side of road and there accident rates are higher accordingly. 

I would rather deal with a bit more heat and have a car that can safely be seen in all conditions. Driving in Oklahoma and Texas you see so many white cars(80% or more) its almost cult like.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

spacedout said:


> Only problem with a white car is I live in Wisconsin and white & silver cars are not as safe in the winter. Much harder to see a white car parked on side of road and there accident rates are higher accordingly.
> 
> I would rather deal with a bit more heat and have a car that can safely be seen in all conditions. Driving in Oklahoma and Texas you see so many white cars(80% or more) its almost cult like.


LOL, really don't spend that much time parked along the side of the road. If I do, have the hazards on, then the DRL's are on all the time when driving.

Ha, if the car is broken down, someone would be doing me a large favor by smashing it up, won't have to worry about towing it to a wrecking yard, and could collect on the insurance. 

Snow? Lucky to get some for deer hunting, typically only good for three months at the most, but this year is different. Largest hazard is pulling out with high snow banks, but in this case, doesn't make any difference what color your car is. 

Care for more of a civil debate on this subject? LOL!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> LOL, really don't spend that much time parked along the side of the road. If I do, have the hazards on, then the DRL's are on all the time when driving.
> 
> Ha, if the car is broken down, someone would be doing me a large favor by smashing it up, won't have to worry about towing it to a wrecking yard, and could collect on the insurance.
> 
> ...


Quite a few people in cities have to park in the street or in front of their house. 

Heck, I park in front of my parents house when I visit so we don't have to play musical cars to get one of the 5+ out of the driveway.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

As long as they are legally parked, shouldn't be a problem. Stepdaughter finally took my advice and moved to a spot with rear parking. Her problem was people smashing her windows plus dents.

If I move my motorhome into the street, can park 13 cars in my driveway, but would be lucky to get only eight if all my kids came home with 14 grandkids. But will never happen since they are all over the country trying to find jobs. Lucky to just get three at the most.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> As long as they are legally parked, shouldn't be a problem.


I thought that too.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> I thought that too.


That wasn't very, and the culprit knew darn well they hit your car and didn't even leave a note. But you are not the only one, with a brand new 04 Cavalier, a pickup backed up into our rear bumper, bodyman said it was a pickup, seen these many times before. No note, comprehensive doesn't cover it, collision does, so besides having to lay out 250 bucks, had a note put on my policy for higher rates the next year.

Calling the cops didn't help either, worthless basterds, wouldn't write it up, didn't think the damage was great enough. Same thing happened to my daughter in a college parking lot, wait, this happened to three different daughters and a son.

Only way I know of preventing this is to leave your car locked up in a garage, but make sure no kids are in there with bikes, have a tiny dent in my Supra, I didn't do that dad!

But what does this have to do with the color of the car? Let me think for a second, a yellow, black, maroon, dark red, dark blue. Ha, knock on wood, so far, not the white Cruze.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Watch a white car pull up to an intersection in the winter when you have a good side profile, the entire car blends in and is not noticed until you are much closer(or they are). Even if you roll up on a parked or slower moving white car in the day the tail lights are dim, snow or salt covered and take up less than 10% of the rear of the car. 

Driving in a white car in winter is like wearing full camouflage instead of blaze orange during gun season.... ok maybe not that bad but you get my point.


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