# It's finally my turn



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I am glad it happened close to home!


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

Sounds like Domenic is getting a lil sick..........


is that the DPF cel I see on the speedo??


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Not good

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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

DslGate said:


> Sounds like Domenic is getting a lil sick..........
> 
> 
> is that the DPF cel I see on the speedo??


No, I think that's the one for the DEF. Oddly enough, there was no actual CEL.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

It is the DEF warning light. Odd there is no CEL. Might mean you actually have bad DEF.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

CruzeDan said:


> It is the DEF warning light. Odd there is no CEL. Might mean you actually have bad DEF.


Hmm, that hadn't occurred to me. I just filled it up with a fresh container about a month ago.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

DEF has a limited shelf life and it's dependent on stowage temperature. I only had to buy one container so far and was not happy that there was no data for expiration nor manufacture date on the package. Given the potential expensive repairs possible, maybe the cheapest way to try and fix this is to extract the DEF and fill with fresh fluid? Hope it's not any worse than that. Do keep us posted on how you correct this problem.

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> DEF has a limited shelf life and it's dependent on stowage temperature. I only had to buy one container so far and was not happy that there was no data for expiration nor manufacture date on the package. Given the potential expensive repairs possible, maybe the cheapest way to try and fix this is to extract the DEF and fill with fresh fluid? Hope it's not any worse than that. Do keep us posted on how you correct this problem.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


how many times do you know of that 'bad def' was actually to blame?

im not aware of any.
neither are the 20 or field mechanics that ive asked.
100+ yrs of experience, and no time was the def ever 'bad'


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

On the Cummins forums several had excessive use with DEF that had been sitting around in high temperatures. It can be an issue, that said, some faulty sensor would also not surprise me.. but the correlation to recent DEF add and this condition is certainly suspect as to a fluid problem.

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Found this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FYFZ1gRbswKnpLNNQ&sig2=A_OV2H8Eafb8-S2RyNnzqA


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

DEF goes bad more than you think. If the vehicle had a sensor, component, or heater reporting a fault you get a CEL along with the DEF warning light and a message on the DIC: SERVICE EXHAUST FLUID SYSTEM or SERVICE EMISSION SYSTEM. When my heater failed I got the SERVICE EXHAUST FLUID SYSTEM message. We have seen other cars on the forum have bad sensors resulting in the message, but there is usually a CEL along with it.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

And the fact that you recently filled it brings along more suspicions about the fluid.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Here's a DEF issue on a big rig: http://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...poor-quality-warning-alert-what-to-do.275086/

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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Did you check the filler cap?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> Here's a DEF issue on a big rig: Diesel Exhaust Fluid Poor Quality Warning alert. What to do? | TruckersReport.com Trucking Forum | #1 CDL Truck Driver Message Board
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


did you even read what you linked?

rofl


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

boraz said:


> did you even read what you linked?
> 
> rofl


Yes, what is your point? A guy fills DEF and gets poor DEF warning, like OP... How's that not relevant? If poor DEF was not a possibility why does the car even monitor for this? As an engineer, it's clear this was an anticipated problem, hence the system to monitor quality.

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> Yes, what is your point? A guy fills DEF and gets poor DEF warning, like OP... How's that not relevant? If poor DEF was not a possibility why does the car even monitor for this? As an engineer, it's clear this was an anticipated problem, hence the system to monitor quality.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


his 'bad def' problem was solved how?....yeah, couple miles later the cel went away....there was no problem...there was no 'bad def'

the cruze nor other vehicles for that matter do not have the ability to monitor the quality of the def on board.

computer gets info from the sensors, if its out of whack, def quality cel goes on....

but its never the def that is the issue....perhaps an overstatement....its never been the def in any circumstance that im aware of, in hundreds of vehicles.

but 'bad def' gets bandied aboot needlessly.

you know how mechanics (again or at least the mechanics ive spoken with) test the quality of def? pour it in a water bottle, if it looks like def, its def...it dont look like water

not one of them had a def refractor, nor did their shops

its not gonna be the def.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Are you sure it doesn't look like water?? 

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

It monitors the ability of the DEF injection with SCR to remove NOx. If it's not performing as expected, you get poor DEF quality message. As DEF degrades over time, it breaks down and more is required to remove NOx, eventually it can get to a point where it is not sufficient, thus thee message and warning, and reduced power. Part of that is regulatory compliance with EPA emissions. To say it doesn't happen because you've not specifically seen it is annectotal. It may be rare, but clearly it can happen. 

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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

Diesel, I think what that light means is that your Cruze is due for a delete and a tune.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> Diesel, I think what that light means is that your Cruze is due for a delete and a tune.


LOL, well, I'm not quite there yet! 

Anyway, it will probably be a couple weeks before I can report back on this. You know, I did something that I don't usually do before this light came on. I started, moved around the driveway, shut off. I did that a couple times, and I've never done that before. usually I always warm it up. Maybe I created an issue with the sensors by doing that.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

My guess, based on what you describe (DEF Poor, but no CEL) is that you might be looking at a clogged or malfunctioning DEF injector. Since bad DEF is unlikely, and a NOX sensor problem should set a CEL, that leaves the injector, unless a CEL does set before you accomplish the repair. With the number of miles you have put on, I can imagine that, if that injector hasn't reached the end of its useful life, it at least has built up some crystallization or corrosion at this point that might be enough to impair its performance.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

revjpeterson said:


> My guess, based on what you describe (DEF Poor, but no CEL) is that you might be looking at a clogged or malfunctioning DEF injector. Since bad DEF is unlikely, and a NOX sensor problem should set a CEL, that leaves the injector, unless a CEL does set before you accomplish the repair. With the number of miles you have put on, I can imagine that, if that injector hasn't reached the end of its useful life, it at least has built up some crystallization or corrosion at this point that might be enough to impair its performance.


That makes a lot of sense. Also, from where I had a bad oil drain plug gasket, oil leaked directly on it for several months too.


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

I had this happen twice to me, with the 'poor quality DEF'. I added some newer DEF. (even though the tank was over 1/2 full) drove about 50km and the warning went away.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Louis said:


> I had this happen twice to me, with the 'poor quality DEF'. I added some newer DEF. (even though the tank was over 1/2 full) drove about 50km and the warning went away.


interesting. Thanks for the feedback.


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

I Just received a recall notice about Nox1 sensor (replace req'd) and or soot buildup on Ox sensor (nothing about replacing it?), think it might be related to the 'Bad Def' readings people are getting.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Louis said:


> I Just received a recall notice about Nox1 sensor (replace req'd) and or soot buildup on Ox sensor (nothing about replacing it?), think it might be related to the 'Bad Def' readings people are getting.


I am hoping this addresses the issue with mine. It goes into the shop next week.


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

Great the 'poor Quality Def' is back, hit on the way to work this a.m. Last-week I called the dealership about the recall -we need to order parts, called today still no parts. Why did they send me a notice that the parts were available? And this is the dealership that can't change the oil properly... great. next closest dealership is 1hr away.


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## dougc905 (May 24, 2015)

Bring a book or some tunes and enjoy the next closest dealership's coffee.



Louis said:


> Great the 'poor Quality Def' is back, hit on the way to work this a.m. Last-week I called the dealership about the recall -we need to order parts, called today still no parts. Why did they send me a notice that the parts were available? And this is the dealership that can't change the oil properly... great. next closest dealership is 1hr away.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Finally got the diagnosis - DEF reductant tank reservoir heater needs to be replaced. I thought that might be it, but odd no CEL.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> Finally got the diagnosis - DEF reductant tank reservoir heater needs to be replaced. I thought that might be it, but odd no CEL.


Did they give you an estimate of cost of replacement of the def Heater Reservior? More curious than anything.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> Did they give you an estimate of cost of replacement of the def Heater Reservior? More curious than anything.


Yes, it was $330 parts and labor. There may have been a charge for diagnosis too, not sure.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> Finally got the diagnosis - DEF reductant tank reservoir heater needs to be replaced. I thought that might be it, but odd no CEL.


wait,

so another time that 'bad def' isnt the problem.

sigh.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> wait,
> 
> so another time that 'bad def' isnt the problem.
> 
> sigh.


Yep. Hopefully this is addressed in the 2nd gen car.


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

Louis said:


> Great the 'poor Quality Def' is back, hit on the way to work this a.m. Last-week I called the dealership about the recall -we need to order parts, called today still no parts. Why did they send me a notice that the parts were available? And this is the dealership that can't change the oil properly... great. next closest dealership is 1hr away.



And so it begins, caught a P249D on the way home. Cleared it in the driveway, came right back on restart.
P249D -> Closed loop reductant injection control. control limit reached low flow detect.
We just stepped into winter a few days of freezing weather. I'm thinking heater also.
I filled the DEF last-night and cleared the code 1/2 way to work this am, stayed cleared, will monitor.
This would go hand-in-hand with the 'poor DEF' warning.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Louis said:


> And so it begins, caught a P249D on the way home. Cleared it in the driveway, came right back on restart.
> P249D -> Closed loop reductant injection control. control limit reached low flow detect.
> We just stepped into winter a few days of freezing weather. I'm thinking heater also.
> I filled the DEF last-night and cleared the code 1/2 way to work this am, stayed cleared, will monitor.
> This would go hand-in-hand with the 'poor DEF' warning.


Keep us posted - this seems to be a different flavor of the issue. It almost sounds like the injector is clogged in this case.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> Yep. Hopefully this is addressed in the 2nd gen car.


i would expect same amount of problems, all new parts gotta real world tested

but i would hope they would be quicker to fix things this go around.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> i would expect same amount of problems, all new parts gotta real world tested
> 
> but i would hope they would be quicker to fix things this go around.


I think there's going to be much more of a spotlight on the new diesel. Time will tell how it does, though.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

Has to be costing them a ton of $$ on warranty claims on the CTD. @diesel, what did you finally do? The new Recall /Service alert may help you. I'd at least call and ask.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

DslGate said:


> Has to be costing them a ton of $$ on warranty claims on the CTD. @*diesel*, what did you finally do? The new Recall /Service alert may help you. I'd at least call and ask.


The dealer put it in to see if GM would approve all or part of it, but it came back that I was just too far out based on mileage. I agree with them. I am 71K miles past the warranty coverage limit.


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

Well, I had the CID in Thursday for the Nox1 sensor replacement and Regen
before going in I had the 'Poor DEF' warning and the 'P249D' -reductant injector control
I won't go into a rant about the 'Service cloud' the dealerships have placed between the customer (-me) and the mechanic (-guy I'm paying to fix the car) 
-The sensor replaced, took 3 tries to get a regen to complete, it kept kicking the mechanic out ( said the cloud).
-Your car is ready sir, oh, the mechanic suggested driving the car to clear the 'Poor DEF' alarm.
-on the way home scan-guage RGN posting 0 for 10 seconds then alternating 1 for 10. hmmmm
-finally 2 RGN
-Still 'Poor DEF' warning..going to 80km -with warning it will go to 6km in short order
-on the way home stopped for alcohol (to go) to wash away 'Service Cloud' taste
-take dog for drive 20km -no change
-call 'Service Cloud' Still 'Poor DEF' need car for Monday
-take it back to dealership, leave it overnight
-pickup Friday no 'Poor DEF' warning
-'Service Cloud' upset it took 3 regens to clear alarm
-paid 'Service Cloud' $242 the cost of the regen on Friday...
Went home washed away 'Service Cloud' feeling...


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

They had to drive mine 50 miles to clear the "Poor DEF" warning. Those were the instructions they received from TAC. So far so good after that. They delivered me a car with no warnings, as they should have.
@Louis, that regen should have been covered by the recall, I think?


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

I know, I know.. but I'm outa there with my toy in one piece and if i make a fuss they will sic there lawyer's after me..
[h=3]Dewey Cheatham & Howe[/h]


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

A quick 400 mile trip around the block today and all is still well.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

diesel said:


> A quick 400 mile trip around the block today and all is still well.


That's about one way to Montreal from Toronto. Lol  

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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

diesel said:


> Finally got the diagnosis - DEF reductant tank reservoir heater needs to be replaced. I thought that might be it, but odd no CEL.


I know I'm way late to the party on this one, but I had that same repair. I didn't get the DEF light, but I certainly got the CEL. Strange thing is, I never got a reduced speed message. I drove with the bad tank heater for almost 2 months before it was repaired; and this was when I was putting 25k miles on the car a year.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

plasticplant said:


> I know I'm way late to the party on this one, but I had that same repair. I didn't get the DEF light, but I certainly got the CEL. Strange thing is, I never got a reduced speed message. I drove with the bad tank heater for almost 2 months before it was repaired; and this was when I was putting 25k miles on the car a year.


It seems as if there are very inconsistent symptoms, all for the same issue. I think I am the only one that didn't get a CEL, but I'm pretty sure everybody else got the reduced speed message.


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

Got my first RGN today since the dealership cleaning, it started right at 22 STM and finished at 3. I went 1425km (before regular was 900-1100) since the dealership and only took about 12 [email protected] 108km. everything copacetic  I was on the highway, so I didn't notice any MAP drop.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

*DEF quality poor no CEL. Recall?*



diesel said:


> It seems as if there are very inconsistent symptoms, all for the same issue. I think I am the only one that didn't get a CEL, but I'm pretty sure everybody else got the reduced speed message.


A couple of years ago I had this warning with no CEL ( I had already been thru the failed heater prob, couldn't get one so took it to the dealer where they could get one next day, they told me they swapped out the reservoir but they just unplugged and swapped out he drop in part, I learned long ago to sharpie the parts before they SAY they replace them). I wasn't aware of shelf life considerations on the DEF. I googled the way to decipher the Peak DEF fluid code so I was sure to get the newest I could then siphoned out the existing fluid and replaced with new. warning went away and didn't return for a long time. 

Fast forward to one month ago I get the poor def warning and the subsequent countdown, no code. I always get newest fluid I can, usually at local farm store. I topped it off with about 2 gallons of Peak DEF with Date code representing mid November, so really fresh. Warning went away immediately. 2 weeks later warning returned. I siphoned all of it out and replaced with the fresh and warning goes away immediately.

Now, 2 weeks later, warning is back, no CEL. we are at 98K on the odometer. Could my problem have any thing to do with the recent sensor and regen letters we received? I don't recall ever seeing any notification about a regen running, never inquired at dealer about one. I have had bad luck with dealer for problem diagnosis and paying for unnecessary parts before. I really hate to go there for anything. If I need to go I will find a different one.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> A couple of years ago I had this warning with no CEL ( I had already been thru the failed heater prob, couldn't get one so took it to the dealer where they could get one next day, they told me they swapped out the reservoir but they just unplugged and swapped out he drop in part, I learned long ago to sharpie the parts before they SAY they replace them). I wasn't aware of shelf life considerations on the DEF. I googled the way to decipher the Peak DEF fluid code so I was sure to get the newest I could then siphoned out the existing fluid and replaced with new. warning went away and didn't return for a long time.
> 
> Fast forward to one month ago I get the poor def warning and the subsequent countdown, no code. I always get newest fluid I can, usually at local farm store. I topped it off with about 2 gallons of Peak DEF with Date code representing mid November, so really fresh. Warning went away immediately. 2 weeks later warning returned. I siphoned all of it out and replaced with the fresh and warning goes away immediately.
> 
> Now, 2 weeks later, warning is back, no CEL. we are at 98K on the odometer. Could my problem have any thing to do with the recent sensor and regen letters we received? I don't recall ever seeing any notification about a regen running, never inquired at dealer about one. I have had bad luck with dealer for problem diagnosis and paying for unnecessary parts before. I really hate to go there for anything. If I need to go I will find a different one.


Sounds like it could be the DEF heater issue, it has a private letter good for free replacement if you are having the issues you are having, they should replace the def heater and whatever goes with it for free, it was 10 years and or 120k miles as I recall. Take it to a dealer that knows what they are doing and services diesels.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

Last time the DEF heater failed I had a code that identified it. Is there a chance the dealer would replace it with no code, just symptoms?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

e-iowa-o said:


> Last time the DEF heater failed I had a code that identified it. Is there a chance the dealer would replace it with no code, just symptoms?


That's what my dealer did. They were still able to diagnose the problem with no CEL. I've gone at least 2500 miles since then with no further issues, and I never changed the fluid either. Mine was not covered under warranty since I was out by 70K miles.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

no codes. limited to 65MPH. Took it in with the recall letter for NOX 1 sensor/ECM update/regen. figured that may get rid of the "Diesel exhaust fluid poor quality" warning and limp mode. no luck. still had the same warning. sat in the dealership for 7 hours, no progress, no codes. Left it there over the weekend. 

This am they called me and said they determined that the problem was with NOX 2 sensor. Still no codes. They could change that for > $900. That amounts $500 for the sensor and 3 hrs labor. They recommended flushing the trans and cleaning the battery terminals also but that would run me about $1300 all together. 

I am infuriated. took a number and told em I would call back. been steamed all day. I can't see how they can quote 3 hrs labor for a NOX sensor that is sticking right out at you. unless they are charging for time spent guessing at why the recall work didn't get it out of limp mode. ARGH! Probably another part I am unable to readily buy outside of the dealer like that DEF tank heater.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> no codes. limited to 65MPH. Took it in with the recall letter for NOX 1 sensor/ECM update/regen. figured that may get rid of the "Diesel exhaust fluid poor quality" warning and limp mode. no luck. still had the same warning. sat in the dealership for 7 hours, no progress, no codes. Left it there over the weekend.
> 
> This am they called me and said they determined that the problem was with NOX 2 sensor. Still no codes. They could change that for > $900. That amounts $500 for the sensor and 3 hrs labor. They recommended flushing the trans and cleaning the battery terminals also but that would run me about $1300 all together.
> 
> I am infuriated. took a number and told em I would call back. been steamed all day. I can't see how they can quote 3 hrs labor for a NOX sensor that is sticking right out at you. unless they are charging for time spent guessing at why the recall work didn't get it out of limp mode. ARGH! Probably another part I am unable to readily buy outside of the dealer like that DEF tank heater.


Online the nox sensor is about 230, I would consider doing it myself. Sounds like they are not being fair on price in my view, I think GM has a screwed up emission system that is too darn expensive to fix out of warranty.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> Online the nox sensor is about 230, I would consider doing it myself. Sounds like they are not being fair on price in my view, I think GM has a screwed up emission system that is too darn expensive to fix out of warranty.


I hope I can get the car out of there without them charging me for diagnosing the problem. I need to drive it about 45 miles home at 55MPH I don't even know how far the car will let me go at that speed. Plus, if I obtain the sensor online and I'm still in limp mode???

Is there truth to there being a possibility of getting rid of the DEF system and re programming the ECM to run without it?

Outside of the DEF issues and always paying to be part of the dealership's learning curve I'm very happy with the car.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

e-iowa-o said:


> I hope I can get the car out of there without them charging me for diagnosing the problem. I need to drive it about 45 miles home at 55MPH I don't even know how far the car will let me go at that speed. Plus, if I obtain the sensor online and I'm still in limp mode???
> 
> Is there truth to there being a possibility of getting rid of the DEF system and re programming the ECM to run without it?
> 
> Outside of the DEF issues and always paying to be part of the dealership's learning curve I'm very happy with the car.


The speed limit/poor DEF quality issue is extremely likely the DEF heater. They are apparently not doing a good job of diagnosing it. That repair is covered under a 10 year 120K mile extended warranty. I am 99% sure that's what the issue with your car is. My dealer was able to diagnose without a CEL present.

The NOx sensors do NOT contribute to a speed limit message, based on all the info I've gathered, and 4,000 miles on my car with an on-and-off P11DC (NOx #2) CEL.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> The speed limit/poor DEF quality issue is extremely likely the DEF heater. They are apparently not doing a good job of diagnosing it. That repair is covered under a 10 year 120K mile extended warranty. I am 99% sure that's what the issue with your car is. My dealer was able to diagnose without a CEL present.
> 
> The NOx sensors do NOT contribute to a speed limit message, based on all the info I've gathered, and 4,000 miles on my car with an on-and-off P11DC (NOx #2) CEL.


if this dealer misdiagnosed the issue which is a definite possibility, how are they going to put this emission system or something similiar to it with the gen 2 ctd in so many cars, the dealers don't seem well trained on this system across all dealers. Very disappointing to be honest.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks for the responses guys. I like to fix and maintain my one vehicles. I am pretty frustrated that if I am resigned to take it in to the dealership they just guess and throw parts at it, too.

They told me they drove the car with a laptop hooked up and another tech watching readings and figured the Nox 2 was the problem. I asked why there was no code. They don't know.

While I was there waiting the other day I submitted the request for reimbursement on the last DEF heater. The record of their diagnosis of that one noted that the ohms for the heating element were off. I think I need to go there and move the crap out of the trunk and ask them to check that again. Especially if a bad DEF heater can put it in limp mode and the NOX 2 sensor can't.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

e-iowa-o said:


> Thanks for the responses guys. I like to fix and maintain my one vehicles. I am pretty frustrated that if I am resigned to take it in to the dealership they just guess and throw parts at it, too.
> 
> They told me they drove the car with a laptop hooked up and another tech watching readings and figured the Nox 2 was the problem. I asked why there was no code. They don't know.
> 
> While I was there waiting the other day I submitted the request for reimbursement on the last DEF heater. The record of their diagnosis of that one noted that the ohms for the heating element were off. I think I need to go there and move the crap out of the trunk and ask them to check that again. Especially if a bad DEF heater can put it in limp mode and the NOX 2 sensor can't.


Good luck with everything, it sounds extremely frustrating.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

OK.. just an update. Limped it to the dealership. 12 miles from the 55 MPH limit. They swapped out the nox #1 sensor, reflash, and did the regen on the recall. Still wouldn't come out of limp mode, wouldn't pass DEF quality test. And, still no codes.

Two of the guys took it for a spin with the laptop and saw that nox #2 was not working. Service quoted me $1300 to replace that and do the suggested radiator and trans fluid flush, only about $900 just to do the nox sensor only (that was 3 hrs labor). I waited a couple of days so I could call and speak to them without yelling.

I was just going to go get it and order the sensor online. But, they backed off of their list price on the part to $350 and I OK'd 2 hrs labor. So $600 plus tax and we're down the road. 

The dealer is 45 mi away so that was a factor. If I paid $125 for 1 hr diagnosis and swapped it out at home and that fixed it and cleared the warning out I'd be good. But if they needed to do something for it to do the DEF quality test then I'd need to bring it back. I didn't know if the "DEF quality test" is just part of normal operation of the motor or if it was initiated by them. They implied I'd still need to bring it back after I changed it myself. I know this is not always the case and I'm sure they don't know if I'd need to bring it back either.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

e-iowa-o said:


> OK.. just an update. Limped it to the dealership. 12 miles from the 55 MPH limit. They swapped out the nox #1 sensor, reflash, and did the regen on the recall. Still wouldn't come out of limp mode, wouldn't pass DEF quality test. And, still no codes.
> 
> Two of the guys took it for a spin with the laptop and saw that nox #2 was not working. Service quoted me $1300 to replace that and do the suggested radiator and trans fluid flush, only about $900 just to do the nox sensor only (that was 3 hrs labor). I waited a couple of days so I could call and speak to them without yelling.
> 
> ...


Hopefully that's it. Keep us posted on how it does moving forward.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

The DEF quality poor warning was gone for a few days. It's back on. Counting down...


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

The tech told me he checked the Def tank heater. I don't know. When It was replaced before they listed the resistance and that it was out of spec. 

I just have no Idea how to proceed or chase down this problem with there being no codes and it still going into limp mode.

I'm sure the dealership doesn't know what to do either. I really am not happy about having to pay to be part of their learning curve.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

Had check engine light come on, P20EE. cleared it. 39 miles until 65 MPH limit on DEF quailty poor warning. NOx #1 and #2 just changed. Shoot me.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

e-iowa-o said:


> Had check engine light come on, P20EE. cleared it. 39 miles until 65 MPH limit on DEF quailty poor warning. NOx #1 and #2 just changed. Shoot me.


I had this countdown come on about 5000 miles after the recall. I put the car in manual mode and drove at high RPMS at WOT for a while. After about 30 miles, the warning cleared. I topped up with fresh DEF too. The issue has not returned in about 1200-1500 miles.

I think this may be a residual of the recall, but not sure. If you don't mind, can you post this info in the P11DC thread, but only if you've had the recall done. You would now be the second to get the speed limit warning post-recall.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

That sounds like serious pressure. COUNTING DOWN. hahahaha


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> I had this countdown come on about 5000 miles after the recall. I put the car in manual mode and drove at high RPMS at WOT for a while. After about 30 miles, the warning cleared. I topped up with fresh DEF too. The issue has not returned in about 1200-1500 miles.
> 
> I think this may be a residual of the recall, but not sure. If you don't mind, can you post this info in the P11DC thread, but only if you've had the recall done. You would now be the second to get the speed limit warning post-recall.


According to his earlier post they did the recall.. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> According to his earlier post they did the recall..
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I will add that info to the recall thread if it's not already done. Thanks.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

*DEF quality poor warning cleared!*



MRO1791 said:


> According to his earlier post they did the recall..
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

e-iowa-o said:


> MRO1791 said:
> 
> 
> > According to his earlier post they did the recall..
> ...


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> e-iowa-o said:
> 
> 
> > That's awesome that my suggestion worked!
> ...


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks a bunch! If I had somehow picked up on that earlier I could have potentially avoided a lot of wasted time and costs. 

There is usually quite a bit of guessing at the dealership. This might end up being their go to maneuver for our DEF problems. Just blow the cobwebs out (then charge 3 hours labor).


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

e-iowa-o said:


> Thanks a bunch! If I had somehow picked up on that earlier I could have potentially avoided a lot of wasted time and costs.
> 
> There is usually quite a bit of guessing at the dealership. This might end up being their go to maneuver for our DEF problems. Just blow the cobwebs out (then charge 3 hours labor).


That's one of the reasons this forum is so nice - we can help each other avoid those 3 hour labor charges!


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## Occams_Razor (Dec 9, 2016)

diesel said:


> I had this countdown come on about 5000 miles after the recall. I put the car in manual mode and drove at high RPMS at WOT for a while. After about 30 miles, the warning cleared. I topped up with fresh DEF too. The issue has not returned in about 1200-1500 miles.
> 
> I think this may be a residual of the recall, but not sure. If you don't mind, can you post this info in the P11DC thread, but only if you've had the recall done. You would now be the second to get the speed limit warning post-recall.


high rpm's... How high? :huh: Anything over 3000? (transmission tends to shift right about there during "floor it" driving if left to its own programming. 2000-2500 during "normal" driving.)


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Occams_Razor said:


> high rpm's... How high? :huh: Anything over 3000? (transmission tends to shift right about there during "floor it" driving if left to its own programming. 2000-2500 during "normal" driving.)


High like right about 5000 in manual mode for a couple miles. But when I floor it in normal mode, it goes up to 4500 before shifting.


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