# Upgrading Brakes



## Invierno (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm always a fan of upgraded brakes on any car I own. I have always gone with some Brembo drilled or slotted rotors and Hawk pads. I've done a lot of research on brakes and these always seem to work well for my setups. 

It doesn't look like Brembo or anyone has some out with any rotors for our Cruzes yet... I am sure they will eventually. And since I only have 1000 miles on my car I am not looking to upgrade super soon anyways.

Has anyone else gone down this road before/yet for the Cruze? How about upgrading the rear drums to discs? SS braided brake lines?


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Invierno said:


> I'm always a fan of upgraded brakes on any car I own. I have always gone with some Brembo drilled or slotted rotors and Hawk pads. I've done a lot of research on brakes and these always seem to work well for my setups.
> 
> It doesn't look like Brembo or anyone has some out with any rotors for our Cruzes yet... I am sure they will eventually. And since I only have 1000 miles on my car I am not looking to upgrade super soon anyways.
> 
> Has anyone else gone down this road before/yet for the Cruze? How about upgrading the rear drums to discs? SS braided brake lines?


The Cruze Diesel in Australia has bigger brakes all round. No current Cruze has drum rear brakes in Aus. Maybe you can import a set, wheels would need to be min 17". When your Diesel comes out it may have the bigger brake option?


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## Invierno (Nov 23, 2012)

Aussie said:


> The Cruze Diesel in Australia has bigger brakes all round. No current Cruze has drum rear brakes in Aus. Maybe you can import a set, wheels would need to be min 17". When your Diesel comes out it may have the bigger brake option?


Well I know the LTZ (maybe even 2LT) has rear disc brakes here. How important those are in the overall scheme of actual braking performance is up for debate but I wanted to throw it out there. At least upgraded rotors and pads in the front would be a start if those are going to be offered by reputable companies i.e. Brembo, StopTech, etc soon...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Invierno said:


> Well I know the LTZ (maybe even 2LT) has rear disc brakes here. How important those are in the overall scheme of actual braking performance is up for debate but I wanted to throw it out there. At least upgraded rotors and pads in the front would be a start if those are going to be offered by reputable companies i.e. Brembo, StopTech, etc soon...


Don't bother with drilled and slotted rotors if you're looking for performance. The only purpose they serve is for appearance. If you disagree, make sure to do some research before responding and you'll find what I've said is true. At the end of the day, if marketing says the car will sell better with drilled rotors and the engineers say the rotors can crack under stress, marketing will win. Drilled rotors are a waste of money.

Pads will make the largest difference on brakes if you can't make the rotors any larger. Stainless shielded brake lines may also improve braking feel and sensitivity, but doesn't do a whole lot for overall performance. EBC, Hawk, Bendix, and Akebono in my experience make some great performance-oriented street pads.

For sheer stopping power, there won't be a huge difference between the LTZ/2LT rear discs and the drums on the rest of the Cruze lineup. Those drums are very large, and the rear of the car only really does 15% of the braking, so you're looking at a difference in the low single digits.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Adjust the rear drums properly and the brakes do get better. The brakes work quite well when properly adjusted. The factory pads are FF heat/friction rated, so only pads rated GG heat/friction would be better. 

Unless one is building a track/autocross monster, the drums are not an impediment once they are set up correctly. I re-bedded my brakes recently, and my properly set up drums were quite warm even 15 minutes after, indicating they were doing quite a bit of work.


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Don't bother with drilled and slotted rotors if you're looking for performance. The only purpose they serve is for appearance. If you disagree, make sure to do some research before responding and you'll find what I've said is true. At the end of the day, if marketing says the car will sell better with drilled rotors and the engineers say the rotors can crack under stress, marketing will win. Drilled rotors are a waste of money.
> 
> Pads will make the largest difference on brakes if you can't make the rotors any larger. Stainless shielded brake lines may also improve braking feel and sensitivity, but doesn't do a whole lot for overall performance. EBC, Hawk, Bendix, and Akebono in my experience make some great performance-oriented street pads.
> 
> For sheer stopping power, there won't be a huge difference between the LTZ/2LT rear discs and the drums on the rest of the Cruze lineup. Those drums are very large, and the rear of the car only really does 15% of the braking, so you're looking at a difference in the low single digits.


Your about 99% correct. Drilled, Slotted or combined rotors are better for track performance. But yes, they do crack due to stress. And daily driving with these is just dumb. Not my opinion, this is fact. 

Don't change the rear drums to disc. Again, waste of money for a daily driver. I would be surprised if the rear brakes even did 15%. 

What am I trying to say? Good posting! And yes go buy brake pads.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Check the friction and heat ratings of whatever pads you get. If it's FF or lower, don't bother, since the factory pads are FF rated. 

We have some pretty good pads from the factory. Not the absolute best, but pretty good. The absolute best will be a squealing, dusty pad that needs replacing every 10k miles or sooner.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

giantsnation said:


> Your about 99% correct. Drilled, Slotted or combined rotors are better for track performance. But yes, they do crack due to stress. And daily driving with these is just dumb. Not my opinion, this is fact.
> 
> Don't change the rear drums to disc. Again, waste of money for a daily driver. I would be surprised if the rear brakes even did 15%.
> 
> What am I trying to say? Good posting! And yes go buy brake pads.


Tried it once on my Bonneville GXP with 13" GXP brakes on the front. I had drilled rotors front and rear. By 40k miles, I had hairline cracks coming out like stars from every one of the holes. I did drive that car hard from time to time, but never track raced it. Never wasting my money on that again. I learned my lesson and more than I ever needed to know after researching why they cracked. 

Find a high strength steel blank rotor and a high quality pad and you'll be good to go. A larger rotor would be nice if you can find a kit that sells one with the accompanying caliper. 

I suspect these will become much cheaper over time to get from other cars like the ATS and Verano, assuming those have larger front rotors. 

On the 2nd gen w-bodies, you can grab the F-body front rotors, brackets, and calipers (Camaro/Firebird), and bolt them right in without needing anything more than a re-drilling and tapping of the new caliper brackets to accept the larger factory bolt.


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

I chuckle when I see people in the snow and salt driving with drilled rotors. Especially people with non hi- pro cars like a civic.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

I'll be interested in some Brembos or the like if they can't figure out my noisy stock calipers!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I can attest that once the Cruze's rear brakes are adjusted properly the car will stop on a dime. Had to do it in my ECO MT a couple of months ago. I'm not sure bigger brakes will make a difference.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

obermd said:


> I can attest that once the Cruze's rear brakes are adjusted properly the car will stop on a dime. Had to do it in my ECO MT a couple of months ago. I'm not sure bigger brakes will make a difference.


2 reasons to have all disc brakes 1, no need to do any adjustments as pedal is always right. Drum brakes do need attention from time to time. 2, if you have ever driven an all drum brake car into a deep puddle of water you will know what zero braking feels like and this is what will happen to your rear brakes. It is surprising how much stopping is actually done by the rear brakes.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

EBC has a bunch of rotors for our cars. I just redid my fronts since they have been warped for about, I dunno, 20,000 miles. To be honest in all except racing applications drilled rotors are pretty much good for just looks. Slotted there can be an argument made for some functionality if you are a spirited driver. I agree with a better set of pads, they do make a huge difference. I just went with EBC's Ultimax stuff (pretty much OE replacement type stuff) and took the time to properly adjust the rear shoes and it is night and day different. The rear shoes were so out of whack from the factory at 42K they are barely scuffed.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

Aussie said:


> 2 reasons to have all disc brakes 1, no need to do any adjustments as pedal is always right. Drum brakes do need attention from time to time. 2, if you have ever driven an all drum brake car into a deep puddle of water you will know what zero braking feels like and this is what will happen to your rear brakes. It is surprising how much stopping is actually done by the rear brakes.


true, but if you don't like the pedal feel on disc brakes there is NO adjustment. And thankfully none of these cars are all drum brakes. Drum brakes also last normally at least twice as long. Both have their perks and downfalls. I hate disassembling drum brakes, they are a royal PITA, but it is what it is. Maybe I won;t have the car when the rear shoes wear out.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

I'd heard the reason for the drums on Cruze models was for less drag to obtain better fuel mileage, although I'm not really sure how much that would impact the end result the numbers guys were reaching for? 

Second, I'd also heard that Slotted rotors are good for heavier vehicles and will help keep the pads on said vehicle more dry than normal rotors in wet conditions, as well as dissipating heat slightly better than normal rotors. Is there any truth to either of these things? I always thought vented discs performed just fine ... 

I have drilled/slotted rotors on my Silver Bullet, but she only sees the road once a month, so they should last awhile with no problems. 

Pads are by far, the best improvement to braking performance. Do some research and get pads designed for your vehicle and what you plan to do with it. For example, a daily driver SUV/heavy truck wouldn't need the same pads as one that will actually see off-road and/or towing applications. I went with Hawk pads on my Avalanche and they are much better than OEM pads were! Cruze pads are next ...


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Aussie said:


> 2 reasons to have all disc brakes 1, no need to do any adjustments as pedal is always right. Drum brakes do need attention from time to time. 2, if you have ever driven an all drum brake car into a deep puddle of water you will know what zero braking feels like and this is what will happen to your rear brakes. It is surprising how much stopping is actually done by the rear brakes.


My experience is that in wet weather, front disc/rear drum seems to be the best for stopping. The drums shed water better than the disc so you get braking action quicker than with all wheel disc. Drums, on the other hand, will overheat faster than disc brakes.

I'm not surprised at how much stopping power that properly adjusted rear brakes add. When you figure Cruzen without properly adjusted rear brakes tend to nose dive in emergency stopping situations and Cruzen with properly adjusted rear brakes don't, it's obvious the rear brakes are doing a lot of work. I'd say far more than the "13%" quoted earlier in this thread. More like 35-40% of your stopping power comes from the rear, otherwise you'd still nose dive during hard braking. When that idiot who cut me off on I-25 forcing me to go from 65 (Cruze control) to mid-teens (2nd gear needed to resume) my car not only tracked right where I steered it, the nose didn't dive. Yes it tilted forward, but I never felt like I was looking at the ground.

In the Cruze, it's easy to tell when your rear drums need manual adjusting. If the hand brake needs more than about 60% of the lift space to to the arm rest you need to manually adust your rear brakes.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

obermd said:


> My experience is that in wet weather, front disc/rear drum seems to be the best for stopping. The drums shed water better than the disc so you get braking action quicker than with all wheel disc. Drums, on the other hand, will overheat faster than disc brakes.
> 
> I'm not surprised at how much stopping power that properly adjusted rear brakes add. When you figure Cruzen without properly adjusted rear brakes tend to nose dive in emergency stopping situations and Cruzen with properly adjusted rear brakes don't, it's obvious the rear brakes are doing a lot of work. I'd say far more than the "13%" quoted earlier in this thread. More like 35-40% of your stopping power comes from the rear, otherwise you'd still nose dive during hard braking. When that idiot who cut me off on I-25 forcing me to go from 65 (Cruze control) to mid-teens (2nd gear needed to resume) my car not only tracked right where I steered it, the nose didn't dive. Yes it tilted forward, but I never felt like I was looking at the ground.
> 
> In the Cruze, it's easy to tell when your rear drums need manual adjusting. If the hand brake needs more than about 60% of the lift space to to the arm rest you need to manually adust your rear brakes.


The reason drums seem to work better than discs in the wet is because they remain dry, the problem occurs when the water is deep enough to submerge part of the drum then the drum retains water much longer than a disc does. My last car was a Commodore V6 S manual with all disc brakes and in 250,000Km I never had a problem stopping even in water up to the door silis. In previous car to that Disc Drum stopping power was greatly reduced in deep water. It was mentioned that someone was having a problem with warped discs I had a similar problem with the front slotted brakes on the Commodore, Tried getting them machined, 6 months later same problem even with new pads. Finally replaced front rotors with grooved ones (still slotted) and all my problems went even 50k later still had same pads when sold.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Aussie said:


> 2 reasons to have all disc brakes 1, no need to do any adjustments as pedal is always right. Drum brakes do need attention from time to time. 2, if you have ever driven an all drum brake car into a deep puddle of water you will know what zero braking feels like and this is what will happen to your rear brakes. It is surprising how much stopping is actually done by the rear brakes.





Aussie said:


> The reason drums seem to work better than discs in the wet is because they remain dry, the problem occurs when the water is deep enough to submerge part of the drum then the drum retains water much longer than a disc does. My last car was a Commodore V6 S manual with all disc brakes and in 250,000Km I never had a problem stopping even in water up to the door silis. In previous car to that Disc Drum stopping power was greatly reduced in deep water. It was mentioned that someone was having a problem with warped discs I had a similar problem with the front slotted brakes on the Commodore, Tried getting them machined, 6 months later same problem even with new pads. Finally replaced front rotors with grooved ones (still slotted) and all my problems went even 50k later still had same pads when sold.


If your car is going through water deep enough to submerge some of the rear drum, then much of your front disc will also be submerged, and if you're going to fast enough through water that deep to need to make an emergency stop from a high speed, you have bigger problems than your brakes and should be paying attention to the road more. 

Slotted rotors "in theory" keep the pad cleaner. However, this has not at all been my experience and I have found they are just another expensive gimmick. If anything, they eat more of the pad away and reduce pad life. 

Most drums will overheat faster than discs, but, as I mentioned earlier, the drums on our Cruze are quite massive compared to what you would find on other cars, even some minivans. 

Given the weight distribution of the car, I still wouldn't say the rear brakes do more than 15% of the braking. On a very good day, maybe 20%. Keep in mind, that's in emergency situations when you slam on the brakes. Under lighter conditions, they may catch sooner and perhaps harder to reduce nosedive, but with the heavy front weight distribution bias and a car's natural tendency to nosedive under hard braking, your rear brakes will perform a very small percentage of your total braking. 

You are right about the adjustment part, but I find it as just one minor extra step when rotating my tires so at least for me, it's not an issue at all. The past two times I've rotated them, I noticed that there was no need for adjustment. Maybe the self-adjustment started working correctly.


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## Invierno (Nov 23, 2012)

Well this thread got going quickly enough 

I have done plenty of research on drilled and/or slotted rotors vs blanks. I know the benefits and weaknesses of all of them. In the end, larger brakes themselves make more of the difference, I know. For example, larger rotors and 4 or 6 pot calipers. But that's Corvette, Porsche, BMW territory, obviously not our cup of tea.

I have had Brembo drilled rotors on basically every single car I have owned and I have loved them. It could have just been the fact that they were newer rotors altogether, or it could have been the fact they were coupled with high end Hawk HPS pads, who knows. I never did any 60-0 emergency braking tests before and after lol. I know conventional wisdom is that drilled and slotted are retarded and are only for looks. Not entirely true and we all know it. Plenty of high end sports cars use them for a reason. One thing I did notice when I had them on my WRX for example, coming down a mountain at 120mph, they helped dissipate the heat pretty awesomely lol...

And ****, I like the looks anyways. I wouldn't be upgrading anytime soon anyways as I have only 1000 miles on my car. I was just curious what was out there and some input from other Cruze owners.

From my research I concluded that drilled rotors help stop better in the rain due to the air pockets, etc. Slotted rotors stop the car slightly faster/better due to the biting into the pads more, but cause more pad wear. Blanks are good and plenty of autocrossers use blanks simply because they burn them out so quickly (can go through a pair in a day if they want) and they're cheaper and easier to swap out. 

Good pads are a must though. Agreed. EBC sucks.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Invierno said:


> Well this thread got going quickly enough
> 
> I have done plenty of research on drilled and/or slotted rotors vs blanks. I know the benefits and weaknesses of all of them. In the end, larger brakes themselves make more of the difference, I know. For example, larger rotors and 4 or 6 pot calipers. But that's Corvette, Porsche, BMW territory, obviously not our cup of tea.
> 
> ...


You need to remember one fundamental truth about the internet. There is a massive wealth of *information*, and there is a massive void of *wisdom*. You can do all the research in the world with a google search, and you will still only find the research that other people provided you or an excess of forums where other people said something based on something else they heard on another forum. It is extremely difficult to find truly *good and valid *information. 

I have spoken to engineers and I have spoken to marketing consultants. I've gone straight to the source. I've looked at stopping distance results performed by reputable entities and I've looked at performance claims made by cheap manufacturers, and I'll tell you straight up that it's a bunch of BS. For anything but extreme racing scenarios where you go through a set of pads every race, drilled and/or slotted rotors are absolutely pointless. They are a complete waste of money and actually reduce your pad contact area and pad life (in some cases) in addition to reducing the strength of the metal. Holes in street rotors will greatly increase the chance of fracture and can result in total rotor failure. Even race-specific cars like the Viper and the latest CTS-V have gone with slotted rotors; because you can still make them look good without running as great a risk of rotor failure. 

You say they helped you dissipate heat pretty "awesomely" on your WRX. Did you measure the temperature of your brakes? Did you later put on blank rotors and test the exact same run, at the same general speeds, to see if the brakes faded? I haven't seen a single person out there actually perform that test or any test like it in even a poorly-controlled environment, let alone a well-controlled environment. It's the same argument I get for fuel economy with the Trifecta tune. They install the tune and go "wow, I'm getting 50mpg now!" I respond saying "so am I...without the tune!" Prove to me that the Trifecta tune actually improves fuel economy. Just because your WRX braked well down a mountain grade with drilled rotors doesn't mean it would not have done exactly the same with blank rotors. Now, what I actually have read over on NASIOC is reports of people cracking the rotors on track use regardless of slotted or drilled. 

Rotors will not stop better in the rain due to air pockets or slots. If you have done research that actually demonstrated that, I would love to see it. I'm not just talking about other forums; I'm talking about independent testing. Also keep in mind that if anything "bites" into a pad, it will wear it out extremely quickly. 

If you love the look, it's your money to spend, but IMO there are better ways to spend that extra money if you want improved braking performance.


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## Vetterin (Mar 27, 2011)

giantsnation said:


> I chuckle when I see people in the snow and salt driving with drilled rotors. Especially people with non hi- pro cars like a civic.


....................or a Cruze!


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

spaycace said:


> I'd heard the reason for the drums on Cruze models was for less drag to obtain better fuel mileage


That ranks right up there with LRR tires on the list of stupid ideas to increase gas mileage, but these days I don't doubt it. But I know what you are saying. Drums do create less overall drag, but they should still be properly adjusted.

"How can we improve gas mileage?"
"Well, we can put rear brakes on that don't work and tires that don't stick to the road, that oughta be good for 2 MPG."
"BRILLIANT!"


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

I have a Datsun Z that has a 3.0 liter Rebello Racing engine that I take to the track 4-6 times a year. I can testify that drilled and slotted discs make a difference on the track. I have about 20 track days on my discs and have no cracks in any of them. I use NAPA mid grade pads for the track because they are easy on rotors, don't require heat in them before they work and can absorb a lot of heat before fade. And they are cheap...pads only last 2 track days. Actually the biggest problem that everyone else has on track day is brake fluid boiling. I use Motul RBF 600 because of the high wet and dry boiling point and don't have the problems the other guys are having. 

Your tires have a lot more to do with braking performance than pads & discs. So unless your going to get ultra high performance summer tires and actually go to the track and use them your wasting your money. You will get better pedal feel and modulation with a big brake setup but you may actually increase your stopping distances. The MINI Cooper JCW (wich has a big brakes setup from Brembo I think) has longer stopping distances than the standard Cooper S but as a better pedal feel and no fade on the track.

Datsun 260z (1974) - Garage System - HybridZ

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a75HcSRdigY


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

NBrehm said:


> That ranks right up there with LRR tires on the list of stupid ideas to increase gas mileage, but these days I don't doubt it. But I know what you are saying. Drums do create less overall drag, but they should still be properly adjusted.
> 
> "How can we improve gas mileage?"
> "Well, we can put rear brakes on that don't work and tires that don't stick to the road, that oughta be good for 2 MPG."
> "BRILLIANT!"


I've been very impressed with the LRR tires and drum brakes on my ECO MT.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

obermd said:


> I've been very impressed with the LRR tires and drum brakes on my ECO MT.


As compared to what? The LRR tires are fine in the dry but any dirt or moisture on the road they are awful. The brakes are fine, they are just much better once you adjust them, but I feel the LRR tires shouldn't be on anything. I'll sacrifice a MPG or two for the piece of mind knowing I can panic stop when it is wet out and not slide 50 extra feet in full ABS. Maybe I'm spoiled because I always get high end performance tires, but I think they are complete garbage.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

30 Ounce said:


> I have a Datsun Z that has a 3.0 liter Rebello Racing engine that I take to the track 4-6 times a year. I can testify that drilled and slotted discs make a difference on the track. I have about 20 track days on my discs and have no cracks in any of them. I use NAPA mid grade pads for the track because they are easy on rotors, don't require heat in them before they work and can absorb a lot of heat before fade. And they are cheap...pads only last 2 track days. Actually the biggest problem that everyone else has on track day is brake fluid boiling. I use Motul RBF 600 because of the high wet and dry boiling point and don't have the problems the other guys are having.
> 
> Your tires have a lot more to do with braking performance than pads & discs. So unless your going to get ultra high performance summer tires and actually go to the track and use them your wasting your money. You will get better pedal feel and modulation with a big brake setup but you may actually increase your stopping distances. The MINI Cooper JCW (wich has a big brakes setup from Brembo I think) has longer stopping distances than the standard Cooper S but as a better pedal feel and no fade on the track.
> 
> ...


We did a test day for tires and brakes when I was still at the race shop using my T/A on a closed runway. The only noticeable difference between blanks and drilled slotted was repeated stops from 150MPH. We did 5 back to back on each, after 3 the blanks were done, the brakes got way too hot and they warped and stopping distance increased almost 100 feet on the last 2 passes. The drilled/slotted with the same pads (although a fresh set) had very little fade through all 5 and stopped in virtually the same distance. So for really high performance, as stated, they are great for dissipating heat and gases, or if you like look then it is up to you.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

NBrehm said:


> As compared to what? The LRR tires are fine in the dry but any dirt or moisture on the road they are awful. The brakes are fine, they are just much better once you adjust them, but I feel the LRR tires shouldn't be on anything. I'll sacrifice a MPG or two for the piece of mind knowing I can panic stop when it is wet out and not slide 50 extra feet in full ABS. Maybe I'm spoiled because I always get high end performance tires, but I think they are complete garbage.


I had my rear drums adjusted at 500 miles and they have been great ever since. Today was the second winter storm of the season in Denver and my ECO MT running the Goodyear FuelMax Assurance tires handled the snow and ice with aplomb. One of the things you can do that will help wet traction is to boost your tire pressure. It slightly decreases the size of the contact patch and stiffens the tire, both of which enable better grip. I run my tires at 45 PSI cold. Are they as good as dedicated snow tires or all wheel drive - no. But they don't unpredictably slip and the car responds to my driving input, which is critical for vehicle control. I activated my ABS a couple of times but I never triggered the traction control or stabilitrac systems, or for that matter, had much wheel spin/slip when starting from a stop. I'm comparing my ECO MT to both my old Montana and Lancer. The Lancer was one of the worst cars I've ever driven in the snow (or at high speed in a crosswind for that matter) but I could still out-perform most other cars on the road in the snow and ice. The Montana had the GM Versatrak AWD system and was flat out the best handling winter vehicle I've ever driven.

One of the things I do to get ready for winter driving is practice smooth driving year round. That way when the road conditions deteriorate I don't have to think about what I'm doing and can simply focus on keeping track of and predicting what everyone else is going to do. The ECO MT's gearing is such that it's very easy to drive smoothly.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

So really you and I have completely different points of reference, I can see the minivan with awd and alot of heft being just fine in the snow, but since the days of muscling my old 86 Firebird through bad weather I have always at the very least had 4 snows, and normally a Subaru to go with it, which turns bad weather driving into a piece of cake, you just have to not drive like an idiot, and like you said, be smooth, and it is effortless. In comparison the Cruze could hardly get going on a slight incline in the snow last year on the fuelmax's with TCS kicking in constantly. I don't (and won't) run my tires at 45PSI in any conditions and I certainly am not going to change my air pressure depending on today's weather. I bought snow tires for it and it is adequate but I still would hardly call it "good". The most glaring problem I have is I am not a fan of FWD in bad weather. Never have been, probably never will be. In fact prior to this I have only ever owned 1 FWD and swore them off after driving it in the winter, but these days beggers can't be choosers when money is tight, so I bit the bullet and got FWD.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I actually wish the ECO MT was using the Versatrak system instead of the crappy traction control and stabilitrac systems. GM hit it out of the park with Versatrak. My wife's Dodge Intrepid was so bad on it's OEM Michelins in the snow that your average radio flyer sled (the ones with the "steering") handled better, so I know where you're coming from. Replacing those tires actually made it decent, but never great, in the snow.

From watching the idiots around here, I'm really beginning to suspect that driving style has as much to do with snow handling as the vehicle and tires. A lot of the drivers of big SUVs in Denver can't drive in good weather, much less snow and ice. In fact, most single car accidents on I-70 through the mountains in the winter are SUVs.


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## Vetterin (Mar 27, 2011)

NBrehm said:


> In comparison the Cruze could hardly get going on a slight incline in the snow last year on the fuelmax's with TCS kicking in constantly. I don't (and won't) run my tires at 45PSI in any conditions and I certainly am not going to change my air pressure depending on today's weather. I bought snow tires for it and it is adequate but I still would hardly call it "good". The most glaring problem I have is I am not a fan of FWD in bad weather. Never have been, probably never will be. In fact prior to this I have only ever owned 1 FWD and swore them off after driving it in the winter, but these days beggers can't be choosers when money is tight, so I bit the bullet and got FWD.


With TCS turned OFF I have no problem starting on an incline.
We're getting the blizzard today so I'll get to test out the tires (yet again) on my 35 mile commute home this evening.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Vetterin said:


> With TCS turned OFF I have no problem starting on an incline.
> We're getting the blizzard today so I'll get to test out the tires (yet again) on my 35 mile commute home this evening.


My boss told me to work from home today to avoid the blizzard. I'm curious to see what we'll get. I finally put the snow tires on the Cruze on Sunday so I'll be able to take it out for a spin (hopefully not literally) and see how it does.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Vetterin said:


> With TCS turned OFF I have no problem starting on an incline.
> We're getting the blizzard today so I'll get to test out the tires (yet again) on my 35 mile commute home this evening.


We're getting rain right now but should have that same snow mess tomorrow morning and evening. Not sure how I feel about ruining the virgin Cruze in the snow and salt, but I don't have much of a choice.

On the plus side, I'm sitting here on CT because it's a really slow day today! Tomorrow will probably be about the same, as will next week.


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> My boss told me to work from home today to avoid the blizzard. I'm curious to see what we'll get. I finally put the snow tires on the Cruze on Sunday so I'll be able to take it out for a spin (hopefully not literally) and see how it does.



Snow in Midwest leads to fatal 25-vehicle pileup - Nation - The Boston Globe

In the picture in the above link, it looks like that crashed car in a Chevy Cruze but I can't really tell. Hope you Midwest guys stay safe indoors!


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

Sunline Fan said:


> We're getting rain right now but should have that same snow mess tomorrow morning and evening. Not sure how I feel about ruining the virgin Cruze in the snow and salt, but I don't have much of a choice.
> 
> On the plus side, I'm sitting here on CT because it's a really slow day today! Tomorrow will probably be about the same, as will next week.



Snow in Midwest leads to fatal 25-vehicle pileup - Nation - The Boston Globe

...Be careful out there man!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Starks8 said:


> Snow in Midwest leads to fatal 25-vehicle pileup - Nation - The Boston Globe
> 
> In the picture in the above link, it looks like that crashed car in a Chevy Cruze but I can't really tell. Hope you Midwest guys stay safe indoors!


That's a Malibu.

Man, there have been a lot of these multiple car pileups lately. That one in Texas too.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Starks8 said:


> Snow in Midwest leads to fatal 25-vehicle pileup - Nation - The Boston Globe
> 
> ...Be careful out there man!


Even with a couple inches of snow drive on an interstate in Iowa you are bound to see 50+ cars in the ditch.... they cant even drive when its nice out, almost get hit by someone every time I drive in that state.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

I saw that on the news too. I don't know the 5-spoke wheels up close enough, but I wonder if this was one too from the same accident:










CHAIN REACTION: Pregnant Iowan Among Victims | WHOTV.com

I saw that in news video footage this morning.

Here's all we had this morning. The main roads were just really wet- and in typical Michigan fashion, we were doing 73 on the highway this morning... I was impressed with these Michelins on the neighborhood roads this morning- they never did break loose at all. Hopefully they are decent with more snow.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Even with a couple inches of snow drive on an interstate in Iowa you are bound to see 50+ cars in the ditch.... they cant even drive when its nice out, almost get hit by someone every time I drive in that state.


You should see the south when it snows. People crash into everything.

We used to live off a really hilly road with big dips and several other hills. My dad would pull over at the top of the hill into a turnout, wait for everyone else to get stuck going up the other side, and then dodge them all without stopping.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Sunline Fan said:


> I saw that on the news too. I don't know the 5-spoke wheels up close enough, but I wonder if this was one too from the same accident:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks just like my wheels. There's no Cruze...or driver...left though


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

Yeah, who ever was driving that car is likely no longer with us.


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