# Diesel gelling in cold weather



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Aranarth said:


> Wife used to have a cummins turbo diesel 3/4 ton truck and had issues with fuel in the winer when it was really cold.
> 
> Is the new low sulfur diesel less likely to gell or should I add a bottle of winterizer to the tank if a cold snap is coming?
> 
> I'm in Mid-Mich so we the odd winter roller come through and you can wake up to negative F numbers.


i am near Indy and I never add anything and have had zero issues. With the emissions I am pretty careful not to add anything unless it is necessary. It doesn't get super cold here on a normal basis, maybe some that live in colder climates will chime in.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Last January or February (2015), on a morning where it had dropped down to -16 ambient overnight (SE Michigan here), the car refused to start until later that day when we were able to get a ride to the store to get Diesel 911. 

Above that it's usually fine, but it can get a little pissed off for the first few seconds of running, until it heats everything up. We just parked the car in the garage on cold nights after that. Don't quite have that ability this year, so let's hope it doesn't get _that_ cold.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Just make sure to buy your diesel from a high volume station, buying old fuel would be the easiest way to get fuel that wasn't treated for the extreme cold. Every brand has their own treatment claims for cold weather, Cenex in my area claims their winter diesel is good to -30F

Cenex® Winterized Premium Diesel Fuels | Top Cold-Weather Performance


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

At most stations, the Diesel is already treated for the average monthly temperature in that region. If it's a branded retail station that is doing decent volume, it should be ok. If it's going to be more than 10 degrees below average in the upcoming week after you fill, though, adding something wouldn't be a bad idea. 

Some stations, though, will have blender pumps with #1 Diesel (rated to a much lower temp, but less fuel economy), #2 Diesel, or various blends of the 2. Others may note on the pump that it is untreated, may have both treated and untreated options (Kwik Trip in the IA/MN/WI region does this), or may have two separate pumps with #1 and untreated #2, and you blend them yourself. Basically, it comes down to knowing your fuel and choosing accordingly. It's not too hard to pick up on after a little bit. 

When I was in Iowa, and I was buying untreated fuel or happened upon a station where I couldn't discern what I was getting, my preferred additive was Stanadyne Winter 1000. It's about the lowest cost per gallon treated I could find, and it only took a small amount per tank to treat, so 2 bottles got me through the winter with some to spare. White bottle Power Service is probably the most popular, but has additional additives beyond the anti-gel and isn't as efficient as the Stanadyne per gallon treated.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

Thanks guys. I dunno for sure where I'll buy yet. The station down the road is Sunoco. Lots of country boys fill their trucks and UV's there. The other possible place is Cedar Springs which is Citgo. Citgo is right off the freeway and is setup to fuel semi trucks though I rarely see any in there. I'll see about getting some Stanadyne.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Just for the record, I've never used an additive and never had an issue. It was a bit grumpy at -9 in Michigan last year, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTUmnLrMGL8


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

to be fair my car is always garaged on a really cold night or morning and my garage doesn't get colder than 30 degrees hardly ever. Driving to work and starting the car back up might be colder than that, if it is below zero here I just prefer to stay at home if possible.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

You should be able to start with straight #2 down to about -10F nights... Any more and you're definitely gambling (-10F is already a gamble). If it was an older vehicle, you would make it 2 miles down the road and the fuel filter would freeze up. Nowadays the engines can warm up much faster and that heat can be transferred via radiation and the fuel return line to make sure the fuel filter doesn't freeze up.

So if the vehicle starts, you are probably okay. But just because you can start at -10F doesn't mean you should. It's not exactly good to be forcing gelled fuel through the system.... Additives will make those -10F starts much easier on your injectors and fuel pumps.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> Driving to work and starting the car back up might be colder than that, if it is below zero here I just prefer to stay at home if possible.


I love to take snow days too


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

diesel said:


> Just for the record, I've never used an additive and never had an issue. It was a bit grumpy at -9 in Michigan last year, though.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTUmnLrMGL8


****, I'm grumpy at -9.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

obermd said:


> ****, I'm grumpy at -9.


You too eh? Imagine that! 

The wife's horses, the dogs, the cats, and chickens, are a little grumpy at them temp.
We just got bunnies, and I bet they will be too!


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## VtTD (Nov 5, 2013)

First winter I was doing PS every tank. Cheap insurance. Last winter I only did it when -10s or -20s F were expected, or days it wasn't going to get out of the -s or too far above 0. Not many of those at all last year though. 

I do usually garage though.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

I live in New Jersey, we had some very cold days last year. I use DieselKleen in the summer and the Diesel Fuel Supplement in the winter time. I have never had an issue, but I don't think I would have either way. All we have here is #2 diesel.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Aranarth said:


> Thanks guys. I dunno for sure where I'll buy yet. The station down the road is Sunoco. Lots of country boys fill their trucks and UV's there. The other possible place is Cedar Springs which is Citgo. Citgo is right off the freeway and is setup to fuel semi trucks though I rarely see any in there. I'll see about getting some Stanadyne.


Now that you mention Cedar Springs, I know you must be incredibly close to where I am at (I work about 8 miles from Cedar Springs). With a Sunoco, you must be near Pierson or Cannonsburg? The reliable candidates for buying Diesel here seem to be primarily AGO/Citgo, Meijer, and Mobil/J&H Family Stores. 90% of the time, Meijer is the best price, they advertise it as a "premium Diesel" (which could mean pretty much anything, but could be a good thing), they have the highest volume, and my fuel economy seems to be slightly higher with the Meijer Diesel than the others. 

The AGO/Citgo stores tend to be too low-volume for my comfort, and some aren't pay-at-the-pump yet for their Diesel pumps. I do sometimes fuel at the M-37/7 Mile road store when I'm down that way, which is a newer location. The J&H stores seem to have decent fuel, but can be higher cost and a little out of the way for my usual routes. 

If you want to let me know more closely what town you're in and what towns you travel to, I might be able to give you some tips on good stations. This will be my first winter here with the Diesel (my previous 3 were in Iowa with it), but I can keep you posted on any new data about the winter capability of the fuels and stations here as well if you want.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

I drive from Stanwood/Morely to the G.R. Airport everyday. Right down 131 and then over on 96. 
I work just miles from the airport. I get off on 28th street and go past Meijer.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Aranarth said:


> I drive from Stanwood/Morely to the G.R. Airport everyday. Right down 131 and then over on 96.
> I work just miles from the airport. I get off on 28th street and go past Meijer.


I just drove through that area of GR minutes ago. 

Your best Diesel price will almost always be the Meijer at the 10 Mile-Rockford exit of 131. It usually is slightly more as you go north from there, such as the Meijer or Citgo at the M57-Cedar Springs exit, and it never pays to fill up down in Grand Rapids. Typically up to a quarter more per gallon down there.

Occasionally, the Citgo at Alpine/7mile will beat the price at the Rockford Meijer, but not often, and it's a couple miles out of the way for you. Both of those stations do a respectable volume to keep fresh, properly-treated fuel available. 

Also, if you ever drive M91 or M57 through Greenville, there's a station over there with DEF at the pump, which saves you about half over bottled. Otherwise, there's no pump DEF around unless you're heading toward Lansing or Muskegon on 96.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

Thanks Reverend! I'm checking my gasbuddy.com right now but I never thought to look at the Meijer on 10 mile.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

Yup gasbuddy.com confirms that station is about 3 cents cheaper than anywhere else on my usual route.

Since I'm not filling up twice a week price of fuel is not as important as it once was.

So far it looks like I'll be filling up next Tuesday and if so I'll be filling up every 6 days instead. :clap:


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Aranarth said:


> Thanks Reverend! I'm checking my gasbuddy.com right now but I never thought to look at the Meijer on 10 mile.


I shop meijer for groceries and pharmacy. I think they have a credit card or something that may be able to offer additional discounts, perhaps 10 cents a gallon. If you buy their fuel and like it it might be worth looking into if you don't have a card that provides additional discounts.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I shop meijer for groceries and pharmacy. I think they have a credit card or something that may be able to offer additional discounts, perhaps 10 cents a gallon. If you buy their fuel and like it it might be worth looking into if you don't have a card that provides additional discounts.


I know that if you get prescriptions there, you can get a 50 cent/gallon discount on one fillup after 5 prescriptions or a 1.00/gallon discount after 10 prescriptions. They also do another 10 cents/gallon discount if you use their credit card.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

revjpeterson said:


> I know that if you get prescriptions there, you can get a 50 cent/gallon discount on one fillup after 5 prescriptions or a 1.00/gallon discount after 10 prescriptions. They also do another 10 cents/gallon discount if you use their credit card.


Yes I know that, I choose to just get $10 off my grocery bill, same thing. In addition on pharmacy, two of my three prescriptions they provide to me for free...yes free. One is for cholesterol and other for diabetes. Lines are short compared to walmart. Hope they continue that.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> Yes I know that, I choose to just get $10 off my grocery bill, same thing. In addition on pharmacy, two of my three prescriptions they provide to me for free...yes free. One is for cholesterol and other for diabetes. Lines are short compared to walmart. Hope they continue that.


I do the same, since my wife's van is the only vehicle that takes 20 gallons (which is what it takes to save $10 at 50 cents a gallon). Since I don't like running her van so close to empty to make it worth my while, it makes more sense to take $10 in groceries than it does to waste the credit on a 14 gallon fill on the cruze or 17 for the Jeep or van. My wife's diabetes med and some of my kids' antibiotics fit into that free prescription deal too, which is great, since I still get credit for the prescription toward my rewards, but it didn't actually cost any money.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

revjpeterson said:


> I do the same, since my wife's van is the only vehicle that takes 20 gallons (which is what it takes to save $10 at 50 cents a gallon). Since I don't like running her van so close to empty to make it worth my while, it makes more sense to take $10 in groceries than it does to waste the credit on a 14 gallon fill on the cruze or 17 for the Jeep or van. My wife's diabetes med and some of my kids' antibiotics fit into that free prescription deal too, which is great, since I still get credit for the prescription toward my rewards, but it didn't actually cost any money.


At my pharmacy they don't always have all the script so they do partial fills, I had three scripts, two free, one I paid, they did two partial fills on three scripts I get credit for 5 then save $10. So for the three scripts it cost me about $7 for that month....at Walmart it was over $40. Every dollar saved is a dollar earned. Seems a bit crazy. My dog is on heart meds and meijer was quite a bit more expensive, left that at Walmart.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Aranarth said:


> You too eh? Imagine that!
> 
> The wife's horses, the dogs, the cats, and chickens, are a little grumpy at them temp.
> We just got bunnies, and I bet they will be too!


-40 my dogs love it outside


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## BigToe (Nov 5, 2016)

We go down to -30c a few of times a winter, sometimes for week, sometimes for a couple days. I find that the Cruze doesn't start as well as my previous Jetta TDI at those temps, but it does start. I personally haven't had gelling problems, but a friend with a Mercedes diesel filled up in Kentucky on trip back from Florida. He made it to Ontario on that tank, parked the driveway. Next morning, no go, fuel all gelled. Car had to be towed to garage to be warmed up and drained.


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## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

Never have added anything and the car generally sits outside.

I'm located in Wisconsin for reference. 

Have never had even the slightest sign it didn't want to start.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BigToe said:


> We go down to -30c a few of times a winter, sometimes for week, sometimes for a couple days. I find that the Cruze doesn't start as well as my previous Jetta TDI at those temps, but it does start. I personally haven't had gelling problems, but a friend with a Mercedes diesel filled up in Kentucky on trip back from Florida. He made it to Ontario on that tank, parked the driveway. Next morning, no go, fuel all gelled. Car had to be towed to garage to be warmed up and drained.


yeah, you gotta be regional aboot your fuel

im 6 hrs north of vancouver, vancouver diesel will gel where i live.

when i drove highway, i ran my tanks empty of usa fuel to get good fuel thatll be fine for canada


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## Deeezel (Dec 27, 2016)

mg:mg:


Aranarth said:


> Wife used to have a cummins turbo diesel 3/4 ton truck and had issues with fuel in the winer when it was really cold.
> 
> Is the new low sulfur diesel less likely to gell or should I add a bottle of winterizer to the tank if a cold snap is coming?
> 
> I'm in Mid-Mich so we the odd winter roller come through and you can wake up to negative F numbers.


The temperature at which diesel will gel (wax) is called the cloud point. That temperature is determined by the refining process of distillate or kerosene. I talked with the lab techs at the refinery I work at, and our diesel has a cloud point of aboit -30°, so there is no reason for us to add an anti-gel. Depending on the reaction process and high sulfur raw kerosene that they are working with, they will not have a cloud point of this temp. Some are around 0° and even higher. 
Now, we do have a lubricity additive we add to the diesel, because the 15 parts per million sulfur that is required at the pump reduces lubrication of the fuel system. Sulfur was the lubricate of the fuel system, and when it was 500 parts per million it was sufficent for the most part. Sometimes when we are making diesel, it leaves our unit at only 1 part per million sulfur.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

For my Cruze TD (high tech) I prefer either Howes or Stanadyne 1000 over Power Service (although I use Power Service in my old tech 6.0L PS) along with diesel from high volume truck stop i.e. Petro over Walmart Murphys. I believe Howes and/or Stanadyne meets GM requirements more so then Power Service per their published spec. Do forget to have a good strong battery ( i.e. Northstar or Battery Plus X2 AGM) for those cold nights if your vehicle sits outdoors 24/7 like mine does. Here in northern ILL we have junk B20 diesel and can get -37F real temp as we did 5 years ago and two weeks ago over night of -18F can be typical.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

Deeezel said:


> mg:mg:
> 
> The temperature at which diesel will gel (wax) is called the cloud point. That temperature is determined by the refining process of distillate or kerosene. I talked with the lab techs at the refinery I work at, and our diesel has a cloud point of aboit -30°, so there is no reason for us to add an anti-gel. Depending on the reaction process and high sulfur raw kerosene that they are working with, they will not have a cloud point of this temp. Some are around 0° and even higher.
> Now, we do have a lubricity additive we add to the diesel, because the 15 parts per million sulfur that is required at the pump reduces lubrication of the fuel system. Sulfur was the lubricate of the fuel system, and when it was 500 parts per million it was sufficent for the most part. Sometimes when we are making diesel, it leaves our unit at only 1 part per million sulfur.


Thanks!!!


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

At -26c The Cruze starts and runs fine here in Canuk Land.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Cruz15 said:


> At -26c The Cruze starts and runs fine here in Canuk Land.


All depends on processing, how much BIO crap is mixed in and the degree of poor fuel handling like one finds in northern ILL. Shop at a low volume station where the owner is being cheap and you'll be lucky to start at 0F... just real life in the States. I treat the diesel like it *MUST* lite up at -40F anytime after standing over 24/7 outside full exposure to the elements!!!


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## BrightParrot (Jul 22, 2016)

Here in NC, where the temps are predominately warm, I don't know what the winter additives are, nor what the cloud point would be. But occasionally, we do get very cold overnights. I have noticed that things tend to favor warmer weather, such as school buses with no block heaters. (We've gotten no school days because it was too cold for the diesel buses to start.) If it is forecasted to have a cold snap, I just put in some amsoil diesel cold flow. Easy to keep some on hand as I order my oil from them anyways. Haven't had any issues yet. (I'm not really convinced I need to do this, but I'd rather be safe (and start the car) than sorry.)


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

BrightParrot said:


> Here in NC, where the temps are predominately warm, I don't know what the winter additives are, nor what the cloud point would be. But occasionally, we do get very cold overnights. I have noticed that things tend to favor warmer weather, such as school buses with no block heaters. (We've gotten no school days because it was too cold for the diesel buses to start.) If it is forecasted to have a cold snap, I just put in some amsoil diesel cold flow. Easy to keep some on hand as I order my oil from them anyways. Haven't had any issues yet. (I'm not really convinced I need to do this, but I'd rather be safe (and start the car) than sorry.)


We saw -18 F this winter a few weeks back over the Holidays and my 2015 CTD sat outside with NO heater plugged in (it does have the heater from factory) and I had zero issues starting the car, even after it sat for a few days in -10 weather. Once started, it heated the cabin quickly using Max Heat and Max Fan speed and was ready to drive in about 2 minutes. Funny thing is, my Bel Stir-O had more trouble with the cold than my diesel did.


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