# 9-speed Automatic in gas-powered Cruze?



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

They have not said anything specifically about the gas Cruze - but I would not be surprised to see the 9-speed make its way into the gas car at some point. Maybe in a couple years.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I think that for right now the 9 speed transmissions are physically too big for the Cruze.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

obermd said:


> I think that for right now the 9 speed transmissions are physically too big for the Cruze.


Actually, the 9-speed is roughly the same size as the 6-speed.



GM said:


> Developed for the tight packaging requirements of transverse propulsion systems, the new 9T50 nine-speed automatic has an on-axis design, where all the gears are in line with the crankshaft, and GM’s first application of a selectable one-way clutch. Both features help reduce the package size, making it roughly the same size as a six-speed transmission.


Chevrolet's First 9-Speed Auto Debuts in 2017 Malibu


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> I think that for right now the 9 speed transmissions are physically too big for the Cruze.


It's going in the diesel next year.

I think we'll see it in the gas powered ones with a mid-cycle refresh of sorts. Maybe 18-19?

Let them work out the bugs elsewhere first.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Anybody know if this 9 speed auto is going in other manufacturers cars? GM and Ford are sharing development costs of a 10 speed auto going in trucks and maybe SUVs. I see that as a positive thing and should make fluid and filters etc more plentiful.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> Anybody know if this 9 speed auto is going in other manufacturers cars? GM and Ford are sharing development costs of a 10 speed auto going in trucks and maybe SUVs. I see that as a positive thing and should make fluid and filters etc more plentiful.


This is also a shared GM/Ford design, like the previous/current transverse 6-speed autos.


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## swedgemon (Jan 16, 2017)

Dodge/Chrysler 200-Series are available with the 9-speed auto-trans.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

swedgemon said:


> Dodge/Chrysler 200-Series are available with the 9-speed auto-trans.


That's a different one, made by ZF. Honda/Acura uses it as well.

They've so far all failed miserably to program them well, although the ZF 8 speeds work pretty well.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> That's a different one, made by ZF. Honda/Acura uses it as well.
> 
> They've so far all failed miserably to program them well, although the ZF 8 speeds work pretty well.


Yes, it's almost closer to a dual clutch in design rather than a conventional automatic trans, and as a result is really very finicky. The 8-speed, on the other hand, is excellent.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Welcome Aboard!:welcome:


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## fuzz-ion (Feb 1, 2017)

Thanks for the replies and for the welcome! I'm taking a test drive tomorrow, so I'll ask the dealer if they know anything.


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## fuzz-ion (Feb 1, 2017)

So my dealer said that the 9-speed will only be available in the diesel model. I don't know if that means "available this year" or "available at all, ever", but he may not be privy to info about future years. Guess we'll just have to stay tuned!


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Here's a Screenshot of the live GM.ca builder of a 2017 Cruze sedan Diesel automatic, look at engine and tranny :


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

Welcome to the forum! 




jblackburn said:


> That's a different one, made by ZF. Honda/Acura uses it as well.
> 
> They've so far all failed miserably to program them well, although the ZF 8 speeds work pretty well.


Can confirm, my mother owns a 200 V6 with the 9-speed, it's slow to respond to throttle input, hesitates to shift, and won't make up it's mind when driving between 20-50mph which is very often.


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## Boostpatrol (Jul 30, 2013)

I just read that the 2018 hatch will have a 9 speed auto with gas engine or diesel with 6 speed manual. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Boostpatrol said:


> I just read that the 2018 hatch will have a 9 speed auto with gas engine or diesel with 6 speed manual.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Makes sense. Wonder if they'll split em up and put that in the LT-Premier sedans as well for a mid-cycle refresh, and maybe continue with the 6 speed for the lower trims.

Hopefully it shifts a little more quickly than the 6-speed as well, since it'll be even busier shuffling gears.


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## fuzz-ion (Feb 1, 2017)

Boostpatrol said:


> I just read that the 2018 hatch will have a 9 speed auto with gas engine or diesel with 6 speed manual.


Interesting--out of curiosity, where'd you read that?


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

fuzz-ion said:


> Interesting--out of curiosity, where'd you read that?


2018 Chevrolet Cruze Hatchback to get Diesel, New Transmissions


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## fuzz-ion (Feb 1, 2017)

Aha! I think I saw that article a while ago but misread it as "gas engine" or "diesel with 9-speed auto or 6-speed manual" as opposed to "gas or diesel" with "9-speed auto or 6-speed manual". Thanks!


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## MyLonewolf25 (Dec 23, 2016)

Hmm seems like a 9speed may be a potential swap item! 
I was keeping my eye on this since it was announced and said to be of similar size for the 6 speed and being put in upcoming models 

So maybe our autos will finally get a diff? 


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

I still am skeptical that the 9 speed will make its way into the bedroom of a 1.4 gas engine, teehee; I think it was just an unfortunate grammatical oversight.


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## MyLonewolf25 (Dec 23, 2016)

EricSmit said:


> I still am skeptical that the 9 speed will make its way into the bedroom of a 1.4 gas engine, teehee; I think it was just an unfortunate grammatical oversight.


It would make sense for them to put it in though 
Better gas mileage and acceleration 


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

MyLonewolf25 said:


> It would make sense for them to put it in though
> Better gas mileage and acceleration
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does a single point of MPG increase account for the added cost and complexity? Not likely.


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## MyLonewolf25 (Dec 23, 2016)

EricSmit said:


> Does a single point of MPG increase account for the added cost and complexity? Not likely.


If you're already mass producing something it becomes cheaper the more you make

I could see it being available in higher trim models 

And it would probably be closer to 2-3 mpg difference 
And with a 2-3 mpg increase over a large model range significantly increases a company's overall mpg which means less taxing on them 


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

It would have to be developed and perfected to mate and operate flawlessly with the 1.4, or they can just continue with the 6 speed that works great and returns 40 mpg.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

EricSmit said:


> It would have to be developed and perfected to mate and operate flawlessly with the 1.4, or they can just continue with the 6 speed that works great and returns 40 mpg.


They've already mated it with the 1.5 in the Terrain, and will eventually land it in the Malibu/Equinox. The 1.5 is very similar; basically only stroke is different from the 1.4.

4-6 on the 6 speeds could use some ratios in between. I hate trying to get around a car on the highway and 4th is screamy and 5th isn't enough.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

They'll definitely put them together - but you'll probably gain at the most 1 mpg. But what you will see moreso (if the tuning is done properly), is better driveability.


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## MyLonewolf25 (Dec 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> They'll definitely put them together - but you'll probably gain at the most 1 mpg. But what you will see moreso (if the tuning is done properly), is better driveability.


I feel like city mpg would increase quite a bit 2-3 mpg at least 

That's the biggest let down I find 
Really highway mpg is dictated by maybe 2-3 gears max


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

The 9 speed should definitely focus a bit on city mpg. My city mpg is 6.8-7.2L/100km but highway I've seen 4.8L/100km.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MyLonewolf25 said:


> I feel like city mpg would increase quite a bit 2-3 mpg at least
> 
> That's the biggest let down I find
> Really highway mpg is dictated by maybe 2-3 gears max
> ...


I doubt there's that much to be had from it in the city. They've already hit the 30 mpg for city, and it took start/stop to do that. I think the Civic has slightly less curb weight and a CVT with infinite ratios. It's only rated at 31 city. The auto Cruze is already in 5th gear by 33 mph - the first 4 ratios are very close together. The highway ratios could use some work - a taller cruising gear, and better spaced passing ones. 

Like MP said, if programmed right, the drivability could take advantage of that huge glut of torque the little gas engine has from 2-3000 RPM.


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## MyLonewolf25 (Dec 23, 2016)

jblackburn said:


> I doubt there's that much to be had from it in the city. They've already hit the 30 mpg for city, and it took start/stop to do that. I think the Civic has slightly less curb weight and a CVT with infinite ratios. It's only rated at 31 city. The auto Cruze is already in 5th gear by 33 mph - the first 4 ratios are very close together. The highway ratios could use some work - a taller cruising gear, and better spaced passing ones.
> 
> Like MP said, if programmed right, the drivability could take advantage of that huge glut of torque the little gas engine has from 2-3000 RPM.


I find a LOT of the time personally I'm higher up in the rpm because of awkward gearing than I should be able to be in but that's me
But especially the 3-4 shift could use help
I'd say more but I'd need to be in the car to do so 

And I've only been able to get into 5th at 35 and that's manually done so with the manual shift thing 


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MyLonewolf25 said:


> I find a LOT of the time personally I'm higher up in the rpm because of awkward gearing than I should be able to be in but that's me
> But especially the 3-4 shift could use help
> I'd say more but I'd need to be in the car to do so
> 
> ...


I can't see on this phone thing what you drive, but I think they tweaked the shift points slightly for the Gen2. My 2012 was a manual, but yeah, the Gen 1 rentals I had would awkwardly hold gears past where they should have - especially that final upshift to 6th.


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## MyLonewolf25 (Dec 23, 2016)

jblackburn said:


> I can't see on this phone thing what you drive, but I think they tweaked the shift points slightly for the Gen2. My 2012 was a manual, but yeah, the Gen 1 rentals I had would awkwardly hold gears past where they should have - especially that final upshift to 6th.


I currently drive a '13 sonic but I've driven a Cruze rental
Both were the same for shift points 

I mainly just watch and look around on here because same powertrain 

Either way I don't really care 
I mean it's cool to have a 9 speed coming but I'd rather get an lsd for the autos because dear lord it would be nice 


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> I doubt there's that much to be had from it in the city. They've already hit the 30 mpg for city, and it took start/stop to do that. I think the Civic has slightly less curb weight and a CVT with infinite ratios. It's only rated at 31 city. The auto Cruze is already in 5th gear by 33 mph - the first 4 ratios are very close together. The highway ratios could use some work - a taller cruising gear, and better spaced passing ones.
> 
> Like MP said, if programmed right, the drivability could take advantage of that huge glut of torque the little gas engine has from 2-3000 RPM.


Another real good example would be the transition from the 5-speed AutoStick to the ZF 8-speed in the Chrysler L-cars (300, Charger, Challenger). I'll compare the V6 ones (since the V8 cars didn't get the 8-speed until the 2015 MCAs, whereas the V6 got it in 2012, one year after the refresh).

In 2011, it was rated at 18/27 and in 2012, with the new 8-speed (arguably one of the finest implementations of an 8-speed in existence, surprisingly), 19/31. Considering this is a V6, you're talking a lot more torque, and thus, a larger ability to make more use of extra, very tall, gears to push farther for numbers in the highway rating - but only 1 mpg city. However - driving is really where the 8-speed shined over the 5-speed. 

I'm going to take a slight liberty and move up to the V8 cars for comparison (as I was never unfortunate enough to drive a V6 car with the 5-speed). I (well, technically, my wife) had a '14 Challenger R/T for a week, and a couple years later I had a '15 Charger R/T Road & Track for a week; 5-speed and 8-speed, respectively. Despite the difference in number of doors, the vehicle is virtually identical in how it drives. And that transmission...my god, that transmission. If it weren't for the abysmal Eagle RS-As on the Charger trying to kill me any time there was one droplet of moisture on the ground, it would've been a knockout, but in the dry - absolutely unbelievable how different. 

Now, tying this back into the Cruze - you cannot utilize such tall gearing in order to obtain large highway gains. The engine simply does not have the torque or inertia to do so - this is where people complain about the ZF 9-speed. 8th and 9th gears are _so tall_ that in most situations, the vehicle cannot even use them, especially with an I4. The potential is there, yes, but the power to use it is not.



MyLonewolf25 said:


> I mean it's cool to have a 9 speed coming but I'd rather get an lsd for the autos because dear lord it would be nice


Quite honestly, I'm still fine with my 4-speed auto in my Cobalt. Granted, gears 3 and 4 are useless for anything other than highway cruising, but if you're in 1st or 2nd, you can put a whole **** of a lot of hurt on things that are more powerful. But I feel you on the LSD comment - even with my sticky-as-all-**** Direzza ZIIs, I'm still spinning below 40 mph - especially through or out of a corner.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> Now, tying this back into the Cruze - you cannot utilize such tall gearing in order to obtain large highway gains. The engine simply does not have the torque or inertia to do so - this is where people complain about the ZF 9-speed. 8th and 9th gears are _so tall that in most situations, the vehicle cannot even use them, especially with an I4. The potential is there, yes, but the power to use it is not._


I almost think you could with the little turbo engine vs a NA 4 cylinder, and I think that's where the automatic loses the majority of its highway MPG vs the Eco geared manual transmissions. Our 2.5L Camry drops 2 gears for every small anthill it comes across, but it loafs along at 2K at 70. I think the new 1.4L could get away with a steady 70 MPH cruise at 1500 RPM - my old 1.4L could cruise along happily at that RPM, and this one does the same in town. For hills, passing, etc, of course you'd have to drop gears, but there's a bunch of torque right low down in the RPM range.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

In stock kit, I'm really not sure about that J. Sure, mine with a tune would absolutely eat up a 9 speed, but in stock form it's literally held back and I really have trouble believing it would benefit from a 9 speed trans, unless you lived in Kansas.


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## MyLonewolf25 (Dec 23, 2016)

EricSmit said:


> In stock kit, I'm really not sure about that J. Sure, mine with a tune would absolutely eat up a 9 speed, but in stock form it's literally held back and I really have trouble believing it would benefit from a 9 speed trans, unless you lived in Kansas.


Except a more hilly area would benefit more from a higher amount of gears
Easier to get up to and stay at speed with more gears meaning you don't have to increase the revs as much if you do need to go to a lower gear for a hill 


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

I still don't think the pros outweigh the cons of a 9 speed trans for the smaller engine.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

EricSmit said:


> In stock kit, I'm really not sure about that J. Sure, mine with a tune would absolutely eat up a 9 speed, but in stock form it's literally held back and I really have trouble believing it would benefit from a 9 speed trans, unless you lived in Kansas.


The tuning feels very different on the auto vs manual transmissions. On the old cars, they even gave a different peak torque figure based on the transmission (1850 vs 2500 rpm). The new manual feels like much of the same when I drove one - bad throttle mapping and tq limiting down low. My auto goes up 2 decent sized hills around me lugging itself at 15-1700 rpm without any real lack of power (it doesn't like being surprised by them and downshifting).


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