# Sticky  Teardown of Cruze CTD engine



## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Yeap, same imported engine from Opel Astra 2.0 CTD

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

What a great find! Thread moved to Technical sub-forum and stickied. 

Yes, mechanically speaking, this is our engine. Our RPO LUZ would have a few part number differences from the one dismantled. But all the components are the same.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

When he pulled the EGR, it looked like there was a seal for coolant. I don't recall seeing that on ours, or am I mistaken? Only asking because I plan on pulling the EGR soon to clean it and I haven't heard anyone else talk about losing a lot of coolant when pulling it.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> When he pulled the EGR, it looked like there was a seal for coolant. I don't recall seeing that on ours, or am I mistaken? Only asking because I plan on pulling the EGR soon to clean it and I haven't heard anyone else talk about losing a lot of coolant when pulling it.


zero chance of coolant leak when you remove the egr valve, nothing to worry aboot


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I’ve just watched it again, very carefully, pausing to read the subtitles and examine the images.

At 8:50 they begin taking about the oiling system describing how failures of an O ring in the pan and the oil pump can occur and cascade to failure of the crankshaft bearings.

Failed crankshaft bearings were the suspected death of @Gator ‘s engine at 255,000 miles and confirmed on @Sygma6 ‘s engine at 90,000 miles.

Suspicion at the time was oil contamination from the EGR, but this video teardown points to mechanical sources.

The video also mentions two variants of the oil pressure sensor. A one pin, that fails to warn the operator of oiling problems before it is too late; and, a three pin, that offers early warning.

Does anyone know if our RPO LUZ engines have the one pin - or three pin - oil pressure sensor?


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Scary - I actually ordered an oil analysis kit yesterday. Nearing 150k miles - Would be interesting to see if they find any metal content.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> Scary - I actually ordered an oil analysis kit yesterday. Nearing 150k miles - Would be interesting to see if they find any metal content.


Unlikely an oil analysis would disclose or forewarn this type of failure. Suggest watching that video a few times from 8:50 to 12:30 to grasp a more complete understanding.

Another thing, I would argue that the design life of the vehicle is 150,000 miles before major component failure. After 150,000 I personally wouldn’t spend any money on it beyond wear items or things listed in the service schedule.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

55589549 is the o ring in the pan $22 canadian






4-5 hrs to diy

this dude does it on the side of the road, lol






this dude has f40 trans (af40-6 ??? as in ours ???).....with his trans, two oil pan bolts are hidden by the trans, so he drilled two holes in the trans to get at the bolts







if you can diy the timing belt, you'll be able to diy this o ring.

in the summer, im gonna change it out


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Tomko said:


> Unlikely an oil analysis would disclose or forewarn this type of failure. Suggest watching that video a few times from 8:50 to 12:30 to grasp a more complete understanding.
> 
> Another thing, I would argue that the design life of the vehicle is 150,000 miles before major component failure. After 150,000 I personally wouldn’t spend any money on it beyond wear items or things listed in the service schedule.


yeah i wonder what would lead to more failures, miles or age?....

rubber seals do fail randomly, improper install, bad part, etc....but is there a contributing factor?...excessive fuel in the oil or amount of regens and the heat from regens adding to stress on the rubber?

in theory @Gator was the perfect subject for the motor, high mile hwy cruising, keepin the motor and emissions happy

when i bought the car, i wanted four sets of tires out of it, ive got 1yr old winters and 1yr old summers now, so on pace to run those out in 2024 ,also just did brakes last month, so theyll be good til then as well

should be <200,000 miles in 2024


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Tomko said:


> Unlikely an oil analysis would disclose or forewarn this type of failure. Suggest watching that video a few times from 8:50 to 12:30 to grasp a more complete understanding.
> 
> Another thing, I would argue that the design life of the vehicle is 150,000 miles before major component failure. After 150,000 I personally wouldn’t spend any money on it beyond wear items or things listed in the service schedule.


I'm pretty sure the oil analysis, like from Blackstone Labs, says whether or not they have found wear metals in the oil and can tell you from what component based on the engine design.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Unlikely an oil analysis would disclose or forewarn this type of failure. Suggest watching that video a few times from 8:50 to 12:30 to grasp a more complete understanding.
> 
> Another thing, I would argue that the design life of the vehicle is 150,000 miles before major component failure. After 150,000 I personally wouldn’t spend any money on it beyond wear items or things listed in the service schedule.


well...before even going to that advanced damage bearings state the driver should get plenty of warnings, the main one would be the coolant/oil temperature and pressure. If there is oil starvation, there is no lubrication whatsoever for bearings, I can only imagine what levels of coolant/oil temperature/pressure would be in that engine.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

boraz said:


> 55589549 is the o ring in the pan $22 canadian
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Recommended viewing for all CTD owners who intend to keep their engine.

This $20 seal is known to harden and fail with time. And once it does it allows air to enter the oil pump compromising the oiling system, destroying the crankshaft bearings and scrapping the engine. 

For those still under warranty, don’t worry - be happy.

But for those no longer covered by warranty, this is a ticking time bomb.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> I'm pretty sure the oil analysis, like from Blackstone Labs, says whether or not they have found wear metals in the oil and can tell you from what component based on the engine design.


I use Blackstone. They don’t measure oil aeration or the flexibility of this oil pump pickup seal.

Suggest watching the videos @boraz just posted.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

pacolino said:


> well...before even going to that advanced damage bearings state the driver should get plenty of warnings, the main one would be the coolant/oil temperature and pressure. If there is oil starvation, there is no lubrication whatsoever for bearings, I can only imagine what levels of coolant/oil temperature/pressure would be in that engine.


@Gator is a professional driver. He takes his machines seriously because without them he can’t put food on the table. Always scrupulously maintained. Yet he had no warning.

Suggest watching the videos @boraz just posted. Then you can assess your own risk level.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

What climate did Gator operate in? Wondering if extreme cold cycles might have greater impact on seal deterioration? 

If so Boraz would definitely be more at risk than me since the coldest it gets here in the US Southwest is around 35-40F. 

That video showing it being done on the ‘side of the road’ looks way beyond my comfort zone. I might be inclined to pay a mechanic while I enjoy some tea and sweets. 

But then again, it‘d probably cost $1,000 in labor. Sucks that a $20 seal will kill an engine that would probably otherwise run 300-400K miles no problem.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Rivergoer said:


> What climate did Gator operate in? Wondering if extreme cold cycles might have greater impact on seal deterioration?
> 
> If so Boraz would definitely be more at risk than me since the coldest it gets here in the US Southwest is around 35-40F.
> 
> ...


@Gator definitely in colder conditions than you, but not extreme like Canada or anything.

That roadside mechanic is working in a more temperate climate with snow only a handful of days a year and above 80f only a few days as well. Nevertheless, he does so many of these seals that he can do them with on the side of the road.

What I’m wondering is if this oil pump pick up seal, can be easily changed when the timing belt is being done. If so, then I think we have a winner.

In the meantime, I remain grateful to have another 22 months of GMPP.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Tomko said:


> @Gator definitely in colder conditions than you, but not extreme like Canada or anything.
> 
> That roadside mechanic is working in a more temperate climate with snow only a handful of days a year and above 80f only a few days as well. Nevertheless, he does so many of these seals that he can do them with on the side of the road.
> 
> ...


The wheel off is the only common step

None of the other steps are part of the timing belt so there's no labor savings or anything


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

boraz said:


> The wheel off is the only common step
> 
> None of the other steps are part of the timing belt so there's no labor savings or anything


He mentioned that going at it from the oil pump, requires removal of the timing belt.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Tomko said:


> He mentioned that going at it from the oil pump, requires removal of the timing belt.


Oil pump absolutely, timing belt gotta come out,

Seal, nope just drop the pan

Question is....is the pump bad too? Or does the pump fail cuz of the air it's sucking in cuZ of the seal...I don't know yet

But I've read a bunch of yt and forum comments where guys have only replaced the seal after a low oil warning and have continued on fine as if nothing is happened so I'm leaning that the pump isn't an issue in itself

Same with the swirl valves, I'm under the impression they get caked with soot from EGR then stop working...I'm EGR deleted so think I'm good

Still there's the intake gasket that can fail and leak coolant in, I'm trying to figure out what coolant path that is, hoping EGR related, hoping it's blockable

Rock auto has the intake manifold at $2500 cdn lol

I want to clean out my intake since cleaning the egr, haven't gotten round to it, aiming for summer when I do the oil seal


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

this guy sells a solid piece that works in conjuction with the oem seal














Insignia A20DT* oil pressure pick up gasket seal (adapter) | eBay


Custom made adapter for solve low oil pressure problem with Opel A20DT engines. This adapter solves the oil pressure problem. With this custom seal adapter you don't need to change OEM pick up gasket any more.



www.ebay.co.uk





this guy sells a solid piece with 2 o rings that REPLACES the oem seal














Car Engine Gaskets & Seals for sale | eBay


Buy Car Engine Gaskets & Seals and get the best deals at the lowest prices on eBay! Great Savings & Free Delivery / Collection on many items



www.ebay.co.uk





seems if youre gonna go thru the trouble of droppin the pan to replace this seal, you wouldnt wanna do it a 2nd time....

the one with the 2 o rings seems better to me, i ordered one


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Rivergoer said:


> What climate did Gator operate in? Wondering if extreme cold cycles might have greater impact on seal deterioration?
> 
> If so Boraz would definitely be more at risk than me since the coldest it gets here in the US Southwest is around 35-40F.
> 
> ...


talk on the internet says fuel is the main enemy of the rubber seal...fuel from regens, fuel from excess idling...cant prove it, but it makes sense.

maybe $1000 at a dealer, but indy shop waaay cheaper....but also read that GM book rate is 2.5hrs (from a euro board), dunno what the book rate is here to re and re oil pan.

one guy i read did it to two cars, and it was faster to remove the driveshaft than to just loosen a bit, but also quicker to just loosen up the gearbox and you can reach the two hidden bolts...

took me 3 days to do the timing belt (8 hrs actual over those 3 days) and 2 days to do the delete....i walk away alot frustrated....heck i had the car on blocks for 2wks when i did the brakes, im concerned aboot the 2 hidden bolts....but i think im good up to that point....and tea and sweets WILL be consumed


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I’m thinking that I should create and stick a new thread for this oil pump pick up seal.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Tomko said:


> I’m thinking that I should create and stick a new thread for this oil pump pick up seal.


I’ve created such a thread here:









Oil Pump Pick Up Seal


This is to create a stickied thread dedicated to the rubber seal that rests between the metal oil pump mounted on the engine block and the plastic pick up tube that descends into the oil pan. This seal hardens with time and use. Loosing its pliability and causing the oil pump to draw small...




www.cruzetalk.com





Please direct all further posts to it in this regard.


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

Tomko said:


> The video also mentions two variants of the oil pressure sensor. A one pin, that fails to warn the operator of oiling problems before it is too late; and, a three pin, that offers early warning.
> 
> Does anyone know if our RPO LUZ engines have the one pin - or three pin - oil pressure sensor?


I took a look at the carcass in my garage from my 14 CTD. I can't remember which one is the oil pressure sensor and which one is the oil level sensor but both have 2 pins.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I think the first one you circled, above the drain with the e-clip, is the oil level sensor. That bish leaks on my car.


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