# Pioneer Premium Audio System Fixed



## Ger8mm (Mar 13, 2014)

Nice


----------



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

dhpnet said:


> 1- You have to get used to the sound stage idea, which means the sound is only supposed to be in the front. It is supposed to create the illusion that the musicians are sitting on a stage on your dashboard. I have a strong opinion about this, but I have learned to let it go, and I won't get into it here. The Pioneer system is designed this way and you have to get used to it.


It makes no sense to create such a loud front sound stage that the rear speakers don't make virtually any sound. Besides mine rears being blocked by my drivers seat of a rear passengers leg. Pretty sad when every person that has rode in the rear of my car has commented on the poor sound back there. 

I could care less about sound stage or at least don't think this should be the main priority when designing the sound system for car. No reason at all the back is so quiet its almost useless. As you can see I haven't quite accepted this even after all this time owning the car.


----------



## stanski1 (May 20, 2014)

dhpnet said:


> When I first got my Cruze I absolutely hated the Pioneer system. I only got it because I wanted the sunroof. It actually made me so angry and frustrated that I was ready to rip out the entire system and start from scratch.
> 
> Since that time, I have learned a lot, mostly by reading XtremeRevolution's SQ audio threads. And, I think I have discovered how to fix the Pioneer system so that it sounds pretty good in my opinion. Now I really like the Pioneer system, and I don't feel any need to upgrade it at this time. My friends have even commented on how good it sounds. One of my coworkers said he was surprised that the Cruze had such a nice sound system.
> 
> ...


I do not understand why so many people resist the idea of a sound stage. If you are watching a movie at home, people spend thousands of dollars to recreate the way the director intended you to hear with a "surround sound" system to feel like you are in the middle of the action.

If you are listening to music, the recording producer intended you to hear the music like the musicians are in performing in front you. Like as if you are at a concert and they are performing IN FRONT OF YOU!!! Why do people want to change this??? It is not a realistic recreation, nor is it not how it was intended to be heard.


----------



## broadz (May 4, 2014)

As a seasoned sound quality competitor, I can completely agree with stanski... Rear speakers are only to satisfy rear passengers or for use in surround sound.. In a car like the cruze, I can assure you it wasn't GM's intention to cater for people who wish to go aftermarket and have surround sound with 5.1 processing.

In sound quality competition, you CAN use rear speakers to your advantage (read up on "ambient rear fill") but that's a tonne of processing, time alignment and careful speaker placement. It gives the false impression the cabin is larger due to adding artificial reflections thus creating a deeper sound stage. If you get it right, the rewards are huge... if you get it wrong, it sounds like arse. MOST of the time rear fill make it sound like arse


----------



## S-Fitz (Jul 16, 2012)

Good to see that you found the solution to your faults with the stereo and are happy with it. I'm always surprised when people complain about the pioneer stereo. It's an option, if you don't like it then don't buy it. I listened to both stereo's by bringing my favorite CD's along before I bought my car, I found the pioneer superior to the base radio. I listen to a lot of progressive heavy metal, so no loud bass for me. The front sound stage is great, sound is much more natural than noise puking out from all directions.

At home I have an old (but still good) 1200W 5.1 Marantz home theatre system. Has real tower speakers and bookshelf speakers, not tiny satellite speakers. Obviously the pioneer stereo isn't as good. Mostly because the environment is not ideal, it has to contend with road and tire noise where my home system doesn't have to deal with any ambient noise.

For the $385 they charge for the pioneer stereo, it's a good deal if you take it for what it is. Too bad it isn't a stand-alone option in the States like it is here in Canada.


----------



## fred20 (Apr 26, 2014)

I have pioneer, liked it a little better than stock, tried both, not worth the 400 bucks to me. I like the old school , back louder set up. Like that kick you feel through the seat from drums


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

I think the sound stage is a throwback to the 1970s. I try not to be one of those people who complain about all of the current fads, so I think I have gotten over my reluctance to the sound stage. It's not so bad once you get used to it. Although, it does suck the big one if you are stuck in the back seats. It gives a whole new urgency to calling shotgun.


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

S-Fitz said:


> I'm always surprised when people complain about the pioneer stereo. It's an option, if you don't like it then don't buy it.


It's not an option if you want the sunroof. It's called the All Star Edition with the Sun and Sound Package.


----------



## S-Fitz (Jul 16, 2012)

dhpnet said:


> It's not an option if you want the sunroof. It's called the All Star Edition with the Sun and Sound Package.


It's too bad they didn't package the options like they do here in Canada, we can order quite a few things individually (not the sunroof though, coincidentally!). It wouldn't be hard to do since Canadian and American Cruze all are produced at the same plant!


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

So whats interesting about this is Alpines tweeters are usually xover really low like 1000hz low. I assume the the pioneer amp is actively crossed. Its interesting you like something tuned for a different tweet. For almost the same amount of money as what you spent on tweeters(retail) you can get it tune it (assuming you do it yourself). Alpine tweeters are way to aggressive imo, they are that way because the Japanese market is all about 3x times the highs. 

One thing that is important to remember is our ears are shaped different from one another so we hear things differently, however once you have heard true fidelity than you can start to say what sounds better.


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> So whats interesting about this is Alpines tweeters are usually xover really low like 1000hz low. I assume the the pioneer amp is actively crossed.


Yes, the specs for the Alpines say 1K - 29K Hz. The Pioneer amp is not actively crossed for the tweeters. The front doors and tweeters are in parallel on the same channel, and the GM tweeter had a little capacitor filter on them. Either way, the Alpine tweeters can handle any range the amp puts out. And, I think they are more correctly reproducing the sound from the amp -- better than the generic GM tweeters did. 



hificruzer226 said:


> Its interesting you like something tuned for a different tweet.


The GM tweeters sound muffled, tinny, and are generally pretty bad. I can't imagine that GM would have actually spent time or money to tune the amp for those tweeters, but I could be wrong. By the way, I contacted Pioneer and they said they don't have specs on the amp because it was designed by GM. 



hificruzer226 said:


> For almost the same amount of money as what you spent on tweeters(retail) you can get it tune it (assuming you do it yourself).


I was hoping to find a simple solution to make the Pioneer system sound decent. For $60 and 30 minutes of work, I think I found it. I may upgrade it in the future, but for now I am happy. 



hificruzer226 said:


> ...the Japanese market is all about 3x times the highs.


Which market prefers the generic GM tweeters? Must be someone who doesn't like music very much.



hificruzer226 said:


> ...however once you have heard true fidelity than you can start to say what sounds better.


I admit that I have never heard an SQ audio system in a car, but my dad was an electronic engineer and he spent most of his career designing and building sound and television studios. I have heard some pretty amazing sound systems that cost more than most of us could afford, and he was very good at explaining to me what is important. I would never claim to be an expert, or even to know much, but I do have pretty strong personal opinions about what sounds good and why.

I am sure there are tons of better options out there, but this was a quick, cheap and easy solution that fixed the Pioneer system in my opinion, and let me enjoy my car much more.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

dhpnet said:


> The GM tweeters sound muffled, tinny, and are generally pretty bad. I can't imagine that GM would have actually spent time or money to tune the amp for those tweeters,


The tune is done on the chip set in the radio



dhpnet said:


> Which market prefers the generic GM tweeters? Must be someone who doesn't like music very much.


The super aggressive sound I was referring to would be coming from the alpine tweets.

As I stated we all hear things differently and the only thing that matters is that what you did, did the trick for you. I am just trying to educate those who dont have the experience, nothing against you or your efforts just trying to help you and others better understand how things work and how to make things work better.


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

dhpnet said:


> Which market prefers the generic GM tweeters? Must be someone who doesn't like music very much.





hificruzer226 said:


> The super aggressive sound I was referring to would be coming from the alpine tweets.


Sorry, I meant this more as a bit of a joke. LOL. I believe you about the Alpine market. Although, I don't find these Alpine tweets on this system to be super aggressive; maybe slightly aggressive at most. To me they feel balanced with the Pioneer door and center speakers, which are aggressive. The Alpines are crisp, but not hissy or brittle, if that makes sense. Cymbals, for example, are sharp and clear, but not too bright. The high-hat is crisp, but not louder than the kicks or vocals. Violins sound clear and smooth, but not louder than the cellos. And the wide range of these tweets adds a lot of life, detail and energy to the Pioneer system. It actually seems to improve separation and moves the image further up toward the windshield. 



hificruzer226 said:


> I am just trying to educate those who dont have the experience, nothing against you or your efforts just trying to help you and others better understand how things work and how to make things work better.


Thank you. I really do appreciate it. Along that line, do you think a quick fix is possible with the Pioneer system? What would you do to it? Are there other tweeters that you would recommend? I think there are people out there who would like a quick fix for the Pioneer system, if possible, without going through the effort of making extensive mods to the car. And I personally think these Alpine tweeters do exactly that.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

dhpnet said:


> Sorry, I meant this more as a bit of a joke. LOL. I believe you about the Alpine market. Although, I don't find these Alpine tweets on this system to be super aggressive; maybe slightly aggressive at most. To me they feel balanced with the Pioneer door and center speakers, which are aggressive. The Alpines are crisp, but not hissy or brittle, if that makes sense. Cymbals, for example, are sharp and clear, but not too bright. The high-hat is crisp, but not louder than the kicks or vocals. Violins sound clear and smooth, but not louder than the cellos. And the wide range of these tweets adds a lot of life, detail and energy to the Pioneer system. It actually seems to improve separation and moves the image further up toward the windshield.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I really do appreciate it. Along that line, do you think a quick fix is possible with the Pioneer system? What would you do to it? Are there other tweeters that you would recommend? I think there are people out there who would like a quick fix for the Pioneer system, if possible, without going through the effort of making extensive mods to the car. And I personally think these Alpine tweeters do exactly that.


The Japanese market loves it not alpine, alpine just sells a product.

You are probably not getting these tweeters warmed to get to there dynamic. The pioneer system doesnt supply enough power to push these to their "sweet spot". However this is a good thing because at matched rms levels you will understand what I am saying about the tweeters, so in this case its good for you.

I really dont believe in quick fixes in general unless the manufacturer missed something during design and build. IMO the Pioneer doesnt have enough power and the given drivers are trash so the only real solution is a real audio upgrade as in total retrofit


----------



## BowtieGuy (Jan 4, 2013)

For me, a quick fix for my Pioneer system was adjusting the equalizer and fade until I got a good sound. Now I have good sounding music and the people in the back can hear it as well. 
*NOTE: *I listen to classic rock/rock mainly, so slight adjustments to your Bass/Mid/Treble may be necessary depending on your music preference, but the fade should be the same. This is a good baseline to start from and make slight adjustments front there.
My settings are:
Bass: +3 clicks from the bottom
Mid: dead center (no adjustment)
Treble: +2 clicks from middle position
Fade: -6 clicks from middle position (towards rear)

As I mentioned, rear passengers can now hear the music as well as the front. The only sacrifice is max volume. I can't "blast" it, but I rarely max out my volume. I usually have my radio volume at 20-25 (30-40 if I'm really cranking it up) and get appreciable volume levels.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

BowtieGuy said:


> For me, a quick fix was adjusting the equalizer and fade until I got a good sound. Now I have good sounding music and the people in the back can hear it as well. *NOTE: *I listen to classic rock/rock mainly, so slight adjustments to your Bass/Mid/Treble may be necessary depending on your music preference, but the fade should be the same. This is a good baseline to start from and make slight adjustments front there.
> My settings are:
> Bass: +3 clicks from the bottom
> Mid: dead center (no adjustment)
> ...


Maxing out your volume does nothing anyway as it clips in the last 5db settings of the volume control.


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> The Japanese market loves it not alpine, alpine just sells a product.


Good to know. Thanks for the wisdom.



hificruzer226 said:


> You are probably not getting these tweeters warmed to get to there dynamic. The pioneer system doesnt supply enough power to push these to their "sweet spot". However this is a good thing because at matched rms levels you will understand what I am saying about the tweeters, so in this case its good for you.


Could be. Either way, it works. 



hificruzer226 said:


> I really dont believe in quick fixes in general unless the manufacturer missed something during design and build. IMO the Pioneer doesnt have enough power and the given drivers are trash so the only real solution is a real audio upgrade as in total retrofit


Ok, so at least we know you position on this. You think the Pioneer system sucks and you would install a whole new system. Good to know. How does that help someone who doesn't want to toss the Pioneer system, but wouldn't mind improving it a little if it was cheap and easy? That was my intention for this thread. 

Also, as I thought about this more, I realized that the amp in the Pioneer system is not actively crossed for the tweeters. The tweeters and front doors are in parallel on the same channel, and the tweeters have a capacitor filter on them. I will edit my previous post.


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> Maxing out your volume does nothing anyway as it clips in the last 5db settings of the volume control.



And the amp produces a lot of hiss and hum above about 38-39.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

So improvement is vague, Xtreme really solved this at the price point your not touching his set up and its mainly because halfway decent drivers were used and he is offering a good tune for FREE. 

With a 4 channel amp it would be like $450 with front comps and dsp. To augment further you can get a better sub set up.


----------



## BowtieGuy (Jan 4, 2013)

hificruzer226 said:


> Maxing out your volume does nothing anyway as it clips in the last 5db settings of the volume control.


Which is why I never max out my volume. 



hificruzer226 said:


> So improvement is vague, Xtreme really solved this at the price point your not touching his set up and its mainly because halfway decent drivers were used and he is offering a good tune for FREE.





dhpnet said:


> Ok, so at least we know you position on this. You think the Pioneer system sucks and you would install a whole new system. Good to know. How does that help someone who doesn't want to toss the Pioneer system, but wouldn't mind improving it a little if it was cheap and easy? That was my intention for this thread.


Agreed. If you wanted a truly top notch system, then the Pioneer, or ANY factory stock system for that matter, is not for you. If you wanted something that while it may not be audiophile quality, still has the potential to sound nice after adjustment without running/splicing wire and installation in your brand new car, then the Pioneer system is. I'm pretty happy overall with my Pioneer system after I got it adjusted to my liking.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

BowtieGuy said:


> I'm pretty happy overall with my Pioneer system after I got it adjusted to my liking.


This was my point earlier that the only thing that matters is what makes you happy. Audio to me is like art some people can see some cant, however everyone can learn and thats were it begins.


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> So improvement is vague, Xtreme really solved this at the price point your not touching his set up and its mainly because halfway decent drivers were used and he is offering a good tune for FREE.
> 
> With a 4 channel amp it would be like $450 with front comps and dsp. To augment further you can get a better sub set up.



I have actually purchased everything I need to do XR's setup, except for the sub-woofer. I have the Silver Flute/Vifa combo, and I plan to contact him about the enclosure and door baffles. 









The Alpine upgrade made a huge difference for the Pioneer Premium, and for $60 and 30 minutes, it was well worth the time and money. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. For me it was pocket change, but for some people the difference between $60 and $450 is huge.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

dhpnet said:


> I have actually purchased everything I need to do XR's setup, except for the sub-woofer. I have the Silver Flute/Vifa combo, and I plan to contact him about the enclosure and door baffles.
> 
> View attachment 110505
> 
> ...


Then why did you buy the Alpine tweeters if you already have it?


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> Then why did you buy the Alpine tweeters if you already have it?


Because...



dhpnet said:


> The Alpine upgrade made a huge difference for the Pioneer Premium, and for $60 and 30 minutes, it was well worth the time and money.


XRs setup is going to take a little more time. And right now I am OK with my Alpine/Pioneer system. I am mostly doing his setup because I am curious how much better it will sound, and like you said, he provides the tune. I will get around to it eventually.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

The vifa with no tune is still a better tweet fyi


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> The vifa with no tune is still a better tweet fyi


I actually got the Alpine tweets before I even read XR's SQ Audio thread. I don't believe the vifa fit directly into the stock tweeter rings in the A-pillar moldings - I think you have to cut those off. They also have higher sensitivity, and don't come with a passive crossover, so you will need to deal with that somehow. With the Alpine upgrade you can easily switch back to stock if you need to. Or, if you don't like it, you can just put the OEMs back in and return the Alpines. And if you think the Alpines are too loud, you can reduce them 2db at a time on the passive crossover. That's why I still think it's a good, simple, low risk fix for the Pioneer system. 

I decided that the next time I pull those moldings off, I plan to upgrade everything. But, now you have got me thinking about it, and I might just try them out with the Alpine crossovers just to see how they compare.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

There are two ways to install the Vifa tweeters; either you can remove the mount for the stock tweeter and glue this in, or you can shave/file off the flange for the tweeter so it fits. 

The latter can be accomplished with a router and a flush trim bit and some care it you have that available. That's how I've always done it.


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> There are two ways to install the Vifa tweeters; either you can remove the mount for the stock tweeter and glue this in, or you can shave/file off the flange for the tweeter so it fits.
> 
> The latter can be accomplished with a router and a flush trim bit and some care it you have that available. That's how I've always done it.


I don't have a router, but maybe I can find a friend that has one. Thanks for the tip. That would be preferable.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

Slowly but surely we will get you on board.:wink:


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

^ True. LOL. 

I am definitely going to install XtremeRevolution's SQ audio system, but I need time.

As XR said:



XtremeRevolution said:


> *Time*. If you want a system installed within a week because you just got your tax return, your bonus, or birthday money and can't contain yourself, don't waste my time. It will take you time to choose the parts that are right for you. It will take you time to learn why they were chosen, and why you shouldn't have bought the ones on the shelf at Best Buy. Since you will most likely be installing this yourself (let's be realistic, most shops do shoddy work by my standards), you will need time for that as well.


Because of the Alpine tweeters, I am in no rush to get this done, and I plan to do it right. Before I installed them I was somewhat desperate to do something because the GM tweeters sounded so bad to me. And, I personally think they are a great solution for anyone who doesn't want to spend the time or money. But, that is all just my personal opinion of course.


----------



## Wem51 (May 8, 2020)

dhpnet said:


> When I first got my Cruze I absolutely hated the Pioneer system. I only got it because I wanted the sunroof. It actually made me so angry and frustrated that I was ready to rip out the entire system and start from scratch.
> 
> Since that time, I have learned a lot, mostly by reading XtremeRevolution's SQ audio threads. And, I think I have discovered how to fix the Pioneer system so that it sounds pretty good in my opinion. Now I really like the Pioneer system, and I don't feel any need to upgrade it at this time. My friends have even commented on how good it sounds. One of my coworkers said he was surprised that the Cruze had such a nice sound system.
> 
> ...


I have taken ownership of a 2016 Cruze with the Pioneer option and will try our your tips tomorrow. Thanks.


----------



## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

Check out my pioneer stock amp challenge thread... the amp is more than capable of good sq with careful driver planning... you don't need 4000 watts to get good sound. I've done it in many cars with less than what this amp puts out. XR's drivers would be recommended for stock replacements as the sensitivity is high enough that you shouldn't lose volume over the pioneer's. Deaden the doors... I'll have 350 in all new speakers/subs.... and it will sound much better. I had 300 watts worth of Zapcos and all eclipse speakers in my old beretta and it would it hurt. Maybe I'm just getting old. But it's more challenging to see what you can get from "less".


----------



## Wem51 (May 8, 2020)

What levels do you adjust your base, treble, mid-range at? As well as the fader? Thanks.


----------



## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

My car...
Bass -3 from center 
Mid +4
Treble +5
Fade balance at middle
This will give you a mid presence in the front with some low end that is not over powered. Vocals and guitars will come out more... give it time after changing it will grow on you.. that factory speakers are more suited to r and b electronic music than metal. I listen to both and that's were my settings are.


----------



## Wem51 (May 8, 2020)

So I assume that the equalizer setting is set on "manual", correct? Did you upgrade any of the speakers? Thanks again, Bill


----------



## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

Yes manual. In process on speaker upgrades.


----------



## Wem51 (May 8, 2020)

Let me know what you do and with what model speakers, and if it was worth it when you do finally change something. Thanks.


----------



## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I know this is a bit older thread. I bought my 2014 Cruze (Diesel) in 2016 and I insisted on the Pioneer system after test driving a car with one. After spending my years driving with this stereo system it blows me away riding in other vehicles and how bad standard car audio is. I will never own another vehicle with standard audio.


----------



## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

Still have this in the works, but currently putting spare funds toward upgrading my CNC router.

I don't see why people drag on this so bad, it is great for a entry level sedan. It really shows recordings with bad production processing. They sound hollow and very empty. Yeah it's not the best, but man miles from an ac Delco tape deck and some crappy 4x6s and 6x9's that came in the j cars


----------

