# Who's running their Dexos-2 aproved oil past the 7,500 OCI?



## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

Why does the Fuchs clearly say this Oil is not for GM Cars?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

In case you are wondering, we had people running the AMSOIL 5W-30 Improved ESP to 15,000 mile intervals regularly in the Gen1 CTD. We have one member who had 90,000 miles about a month ago on the same change, and is probably pushing close to 100k miles by now, on the same oil (total 5 quarts of top-off oil in that 90k-100k miles), with just regular filter changes. Tuned/deleted, to be specific. 

AMSOIL costs a little bit more but offers unrivaled protection. Just offering it as an option, if you're interested.


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## blackbird (Nov 6, 2017)

Nobody can give you an exact answer for your driving conditions but I suspect if the new 1.6L isn't washing a lot of diesel fuel down into the crankcase you might very well be able to run a little longer. Best bet would be to find a reputable oil testing lab and send a sample in at 7500 miles and see how it looks, then gradually extend it out and retest.


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## quailallstar (Feb 16, 2018)

Eddy Cruze said:


> Why does the Fuchs clearly say this Oil is not for GM Cars?


Not sure about that. It's on the Dexos 2 approved list.




XtremeRevolution said:


> In case you are wondering, we had people running the AMSOIL 5W-30 Improved ESP to 15,000 mile intervals regularly in the Gen1 CTD. We have one member who had 90,000 miles about a month ago on the same change, and is probably pushing close to 100k miles by now, on the same oil (total 5 quarts of top-off oil in that 90k-100k miles), with just regular filter changes. Tuned/deleted, to be specific.
> 
> AMSOIL costs a little bit more but offers unrivaled protection. Just offering it as an option, if you're interested.


I've heard great things about AMSOIL. How does it compare or better yet what makes it so much better than the FUCS or Liqui? Not a bad idea of having my oil tested.



blackbird said:


> Nobody can give you an exact answer for your driving conditions but I suspect if the new 1.6L isn't washing a lot of diesel fuel down into the crankcase you might very well be able to run a little longer. Best bet would be to find a reputable oil testing lab and send a sample in at 7500 miles and see how it looks, then gradually extend it out and retest.


I drive about 90% pure highway miles at an average of 70mph / 160 miles to and from work daily. It's been hot as heck in Jacksonville (where I work) with average temps being 90-96F. Rarely does it see bumper to bumper traffic. This car is purely a true commuter car.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Subscribed to hear the input / opinions / facts.

Although perhaps this should have been in the diesel specific forum?

The only thing I would be hesitant about is voiding the warranty on the engine. For example if the OCI shows 0 percent with 8000 miles on the oil yet an analysis says it's still very good so one runs it another 8k.

Do this a half dozen times.

Then suddenly let's say the camshaft snaps which in turn wipes out the head, piston etc etc.

GM will likely want to see your maintenance history and proof.

What will they think about all this?

Best believe given GMs track record with warranty and denial they'd love to use this as the reason the engine had failed even though once could argue it had nothing to do with it.

Perhaps this experiment would be best left until the engine is out of warranty?

Just my $0.02 on this. Take it for what it's worth.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

FUCHS is pretty slick. Finally found the page for their U.S. based products and nowhere does it claim to be fully synthetic so this might not be acceptable in the North American market anymore?

https://www.fuchs.com/us/en/products/product-program/automotive-lubricants/


*Specifications*

ACEA C3
API SN/SM




*Approvals*

BMW LONGLIFE-04
dexos2TM (GB2C0209075)
MB-APPROVAL 229.51
MB-APPROVAL 229.52
VW 502 00/505 00/505 01



*FUCHS Recommendations*

FIAT 9.55535-S3
FORD M2C917-A
GM-LL-A-025


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Maybe Fuchs doesn't call hydrotreated oil 'synthetic', like Castrol and Mobil do?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

quailallstar said:


> I've heard great things about AMSOIL. How does it compare or better yet what makes it so much better than the FUCS or Liqui? Not a bad idea of having my oil tested.


Very good base oils and very good additives. Designed not to meet minimum performance specifications like you'll get from some oils, but to be the best it can be in the market. That's why, in applications that are rarely rated for over 15k miles, this oil was able to go well past 90k miles (next oil analysis will tell us just how much past) without any concerning levels of oxidation (deposit formation), acidity (TBN), or metallic wear. It's a solid product. It's more expensive, but it's solid. I can't comment much on how it compares to Fuchs or LiquiMoly. Those are generally decent brands as well. 



firehawk618 said:


> The only thing I would be hesitant about is voiding the warranty on the engine. For example if the OCI shows 0 percent with 8000 miles on the oil yet an analysis says it's still very good so one runs it another 8k.
> 
> Do this a half dozen times.
> 
> ...


If the oil analysis says that it's still good, the dealer has to prove that your modification caused the failure. This is interesting since GM is already replacing wiped out cams on 5.3L trucks with their own oil. Mechanical valvetrain failures in modern engines are RARELY ever lubrication related. If the camshaft snaps, that's a hard failure that would never be blamed on the oil. I like to think about actual documented issues with these engines than come up with rhetorical examples of things that have never been reported. 




Taxman said:


> Maybe Fuchs doesn't call hydrotreated oil 'synthetic', like Castrol and Mobil do?


Nailed it. 



Eddy Cruze said:


> FUCHS is pretty slick. Finally found the page for their U.S. based products and nowhere does it claim to be fully synthetic so this might not be acceptable in the North American market anymore?
> 
> https://www.fuchs.com/us/en/products/product-program/automotive-lubricants/
> 
> ...


If it meets the minimum performance specs from VW, MB, and BMW, is it really worse than products that are called "full synthetic?" 

Keep in mind, "full synthetic" means nothing, literally. An oil can have 30% conventional base oil as additive carrier and the rest cheap group 3 and still be called "full synthetic," while another oil with 100% high end GTL based group 3 will have the same label.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If it meets the minimum performance specs from VW, MB, and BMW, is it really worse than products that are called "full synthetic?"
> 
> Keep in mind, "full synthetic" means nothing, literally. An oil can have 30% conventional base oil as additive carrier and the rest cheap group 3 and still be called "full synthetic," while another oil with 100% high end GTL based group 3 will have the same label.


I understand, thanks. I think this Fuchs Oil was listed fully recommended as a Dexos2 product for the European markets when G.M was still using the blended Dexos. Would you use this now is the question?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Eddy Cruze said:


> I understand, thanks. I think this Fuchs Oil was listed fully recommended as a Dexos2 product for the European markets when G.M was still using the blended Dexos. Would you use this now is the question?


Yes, I would use it, but since I know the capabilities of AMSOIL as a fact, I would use AMSOIL instead. I don't think Fuchs is a bad product, I just have exceptional experiences and nearly unbelievable oil analysis reports with AMSOIL.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

i dont keep track of miles i just change it when the oil life meter is around 10-15% or so


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

The 7500 mile is not based on oil breakdown, it is based on fuel dilution of the oil. All DPF equiped Diesels that use the engine primary injectors to dump fuel into the exhaust for DPF regeneration suffer some amount of fuel dilution in the oil. That dilution will cause a change in viscosity and lubricant capabilities of the oil. If you delete emmissions, you won't have that issue. I would NOT go past 7500 without an oil sample that shows you have little to no fuel dilution of the oil, and frankly with a mere 5 Qt capacity, the cost of an oil sample won't make much sense to get maybe another 2-3k out of the oil. It DOES make sense for my Pick-up, because it has 12 Qts, or 3 Gallons of oil to change. I typically go only about 5-6K for changes on the Cruze Diesels I have, and you need to monitor for rising oil levels on these cars due to fuel dilution from Regen events.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Oh, I should also point out, the VW 10K interval was with a car that was cheating emissions, thus doing fewer DPF/LNT regeneration events, and less fuel dilution. You should not use that as a benchmark for a car that complies with emissions standards. If you want to get me going on VW, ask about the design of their high pressure fuel pump.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MRO1791 said:


> The 7500 mile is not based on oil breakdown, it is based on fuel dilution of the oil. All DPF equiped Diesels that use the engine primary injectors to dump fuel into the exhaust for DPF regeneration suffer some amount of fuel dilution in the oil. That dilution will cause a change in viscosity and lubricant capabilities of the oil. If you delete emmissions, you won't have that issue. I would NOT go past 7500 without an oil sample that shows you have little to no fuel dilution of the oil, and frankly with a mere 5 Qt capacity, the cost of an oil sample won't make much sense to get maybe another 2-3k out of the oil. It DOES make sense for my Pick-up, because it has 12 Qts, or 3 Gallons of oil to change. I typically go only about 5-6K for changes on the Cruze Diesels I have, and you need to monitor for rising oil levels on these cars due to fuel dilution from Regen events.


While it is normally true that DPF regen cycles cause fuel dilution, this hasn't proven to be the case with the Gen1 Cruze turbo diesel. I've seen several oil analysis reports on bone stock CTDs showing that 15,000 miles on AMSOIL on these engines is perfectly safe. We also haven't seen rising oil levels due to that fuel dilution. 

Feel free to peruse the oil anaylsis reports posted in this thread. The overwhelming majority of the oils are still in the same viscosity range as they were when new. 

https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201...ssion/48818-oil-testing-anayslis-diesels.html


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

As I did say, don't extend the interval without testing. The Regen frequency is highly variable. I had 2 gen one cars, they did significantly different intervals in the same driving with the same fuel. I now have 2 gen two cars, and they also have significantly different Regen frequency, in same driving and fuel. Fuel dilution will be dependent upon Regen frequency, and interrupted regens. Unless these are closely monitored for trends, you could be making a guess at actual fuel dilution. It's certainly up to each how they wish to proceed, but be informed. Good oil analysis on one car, using one driving profile, with a particular fuel supplier, and other vehicle specific variables will not assure same results on your car. For my truck Amsoil specifically says not to extend oil changes due to fuel dilution. Amsoil is good oil, I use many of their products. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

My camshaft situation was hypothetical. 

Personally during the powertrain warranty period I would simply follow exactly what GM calls out, document it, use exactly the oil they specify along with AC Delco filters.

Would it be worth the potential headache to save a few hundred dollars AT MOST during the warranty period?

To me the answer is no.

After the warranty is up I am all for extending the OCI.


EDIT: The procedure that I do is a time / date stamped picture of the odometer as well as oil life monitor. A receipt showing the oil, filter, date and a photo of the receipt with the items. Again, after the warranty is up then I do things as I see it and don't care much for what the monitor nor GM says.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

firehawk618 said:


> Then suddenly let's say the camshaft snaps which in turn wipes out the head, piston etc etc.
> 
> GM will likely want to see your maintenance history and proof.


Is there anyone at GM that can make the case a camshaft snapping is an oil-related failure?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> You should not use that as a benchmark for a car that *complies with emissions standards*.


Given that widespread testing of diesel engines in the EU has revealed about a 99% cheating rate, what makes you think these cars comply with emission standards? I'm waiting for the inevitable class action lawsuit to be filed.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> I'm waiting for the inevitable class action lawsuit to be filed.


https://www.hbsslaw.com/general-pages/chevy-cruze-lawsuit-faq


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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

I plan to run the dexos2 oil to 10 k.... 
But not until after 36000 miles, the fourth or fifth oil change.


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## quailallstar (Feb 16, 2018)

Taxman said:


> https://www.hbsslaw.com/general-pages/chevy-cruze-lawsuit-faq


That's for Gen 1 Cruze diesels. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> Given that widespread testing of diesel engines in the EU has revealed about a 99% cheating rate, what makes you think these cars comply with emission standards? I'm waiting for the inevitable class action lawsuit to be filed.


The lawyers aren't getting anywhere on that lawsuit. They are attempting to take data from a different car and engine and apply it to the US. I made an inquiry on that lawsuit, and have had minimal follow up. There are lawsuits post VW for all US diesel engines, lawyers.. shark's.. similar behavior in this. There is no actual proof that any other manufacture used the VW cheat profile to basically change emmissions system operation for testing and cheat on the road. All emmissions systems are permitted periods where they are not meeting the tailpipe standards, transient conditions and warm-ups for instance. This is the same for gasoline powered engines, and have you seen the soot on tailpipes of the moden gasoline cars? There is a growing effort to look at that as well. All that said, to this point no evidence has been provided to indicate any other "cheat" as blatant as what VW did. The lawyers circling the blood in the water should surprise no one. That is not actual proof any other OEM was doing what VW did. 

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

eli said:


> I plan to run the dexos2 oil to 10 k....
> But not until after 36000 miles, the fourth or fifth oil change.


If you are mostly highway and have long Regen intwrvals.. most likely that will be OK, but I would recommend a $30 sample analysis at least once before you extend, and if your driving profile changes to more city/short trips.. be careful. Oil is far cheaper than accelerated engine wear.

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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> Is there anyone at GM that can make the case a camshaft snapping is an oil-related failure?



HYPOTHETICAL situation. But sure. Oil related failure to a cam journal causing it to seize. Why not.

Besides this whole you gotta prove it or not thing. So lets say HYPOTHETICALLY GM says sorry you voided your warrant because you used unicorn fuel in your tank.

Now it's up to YOU to prove it didn't. 

What a pain in the ass. No?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

firehawk618 said:


> HYPOTHETICAL situation. But sure. Oil related failure to a cam journal causing it to seize. Why not.
> 
> Besides this whole you gotta prove it or not thing. So lets say HYPOTHETICALLY GM says sorry you voided your warrant because you used unicorn fuel in your tank.
> 
> ...


Fortunately these hypotheticals are a risk about equivalent to getting struck by lightning. It just doesn't happen and anyone that claims it does is hiding something. I make my maintenance decisions based on the most likely scenarios. If I was getting rid of the car after the warranty expired I wouldn't care what I was using in it and would run the oil life monitor down to 1%. 

Pro tip: don't tell the dealer what fuel/oil you're using. Let them do the leg work. Burden of proof is on them that something you did caused the failure. 

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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

firehawk618 said:


> Besides this whole you gotta prove it or not thing. So lets say HYPOTHETICALLY GM says sorry you voided your warrant because you used unicorn fuel in your tank.
> 
> Now it's up to YOU to prove it didn't.
> 
> What a pain in the ass. No?


Small claims court accomplishes this easily. In a lawsuit over a few thousand dollars GM won't even send anyone to respond. They'll just offer to settle.

I did this with Hyundai and their corrosion warranty. I had a car where a body panel rusted from the inside out. The body shop said it obviously wasn't sealed properly from the factory. Hyundai refused to cover it under warranty, I filed in small claims, and they settled for $2,500.


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