# Non-oxygenated gas



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Any fuel with ethanol in it is oxygenated. This is why to keep the air/fuel ratio correct for E85 you would need larger injectors in the cruze to compensate for the extra oxygen. Now I did not pay any attention in school but I believe the oxygen is just part of the chemistry of the ethanol, nothing extra added. 

With that said look for a station with 93E10 as a premium grade, my cruze loves the oxygenated fuel. In my state most stations all carry 91E0 as premium grade. I can find random Cenex, BP, Shell & Mobil that carry 93 octane premium here. A few local stations now have these pumps below, that offer both 91E0 and 93E10. 









http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/members/219-spacedout-album698-stuff-picture81145-mobil-91-93.jpg


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

I've filled with 93E10 before, but only while traveling. 

In Iowa it seems the choices are 91E0 or 91E10 depending on the station.. or it doesn't even say E10, it just says 91 with an ethanol sticker, so I'm guessing it's E10. 

The station with the "collector's only" warning was in Minnesota. 




spacedout said:


> Any fuel with ethanol in it is oxygenated. This is why to keep the air/fuel ratio correct for E85 you would need larger injectors in the cruze to compensate for the extra oxygen. Now I did not pay any attention in school but I believe the oxygen is just part of the chemistry of the ethanol, nothing extra added.
> 
> With that said look for a station with 93E10 as a premium grade, my cruze loves the oxygenated fuel. In my state most stations all carry 91E0 as premium grade. I can find random Cenex, BP, Shell & Mobil that carry 93 octane premium here. A few local stations now have these pumps below, that offer both 91E0 and 93E10.
> 
> ...


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

And PS that's an awesome gas station. It's a search around town just to find a station that has Premium as an option, let alone 2 types of premium.. I don't know if I've ever seen that... anywhere. LOL


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jukebox Juliet said:


> I've filled with 93E10 before, but only while traveling.
> 
> In Iowa it seems the choices are 91E0 or 91E10 depending on the station.. or it doesn't even say E10, it just says 91 with an ethanol sticker, so I'm guessing it's E10.
> 
> The station with the "collector's only" warning was in Minnesota.


Every state has their own laws on what needs to be labelled at the pump, can't believe a law can't be passed so ALL stations in the entire USA have clear, accurate pump label telling ethanol content. If your buying 91 octane with ethanol it will be the standard up to E10. 

Its so random here which stations have 93E10, even on the interstate one exit a BP will have it, yet less than 10 miles away the next exit BP they only have 91E0. 

The collectors only warning is like Kwik Trip(Iowa's Kwik Star) here having a sticker on their 91E0 premium that calls it recreational gas. I'm guessing it's so people know to use it in a boat or 4 wheeler. Minnesota is also a large ethanol state and has laws that require the sale of E10 in all grades, so that warning is probably to allow the station to bypass the law. It's technically probably breaking the rules in that state to fill your car with E0, but who's gonna police that?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jukebox Juliet said:


> And PS that's an awesome gas station. It's a search around town just to find a station that has Premium as an option, let alone 2 types of premium.. I don't know if I've ever seen that... anywhere. LOL


I have found 4 city's in southern Wisconsin so far with these pumps, only one was a Shell station the rest were all Mobil. 









http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/members/219-spacedout-album415-misc-picture13412-octane.jpg


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## pL2014 (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm a chemist and can give a quick lesson on oxygenated fuels if anyone cares.

Crude oil (which is processed into gasoline among other things) is primarily just hydrocarbon molecules of various sizes with the chemical formulas CxHy, meaning these molecules in general contain only carbon and hydrogen. There are only trace amounts of other elements like oxygen and sulfur.

As others have pointed out, ethanol contains oxygen. It has the chemical formula C2H6O, so each molecule has one oxygen atom. There are other additives that contain oxygen that can and have been used in fuels such as MTBE (methyl tert-butyl ether) with the formula C5H12O. Oxygenated fuels burn more completely (produce less carbon and carbon monoxide) with the tradeoff of releasing somewhat less energy when burned.

The gas station you found was simply advertising that there were no oxygen containing additives (including ethanol).


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

pL2014 said:


> I'm a chemist and can give a quick lesson on oxygenated fuels if anyone cares.
> 
> Crude oil (which is processed into gasoline among other things) is primarily just hydrocarbon molecules of various sizes with the chemical formulas CxHy, meaning these molecules in general contain only carbon and hydrogen. There are only trace amounts of other elements like oxygen and sulfur.
> 
> ...


I found that very interesting and informative! Thank you so much!  


Sent with iLove 6.0


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

That would be nice to get here in Chicago ...
We can get 93 E 10 . Which me Mustang Ecoboost loves ....


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

brian v said:


> That would be nice to get here in Chicago ...
> We can get 93 E 10 . Which me Mustang Ecoboost loves ....


Was just reading the 2.3 ecoboost in the mustang makes 310HP on 93 octane, but only 275hp on 87 octane!!! That sure makes it worth the extra cost for premium!!!!


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

From Human-Health Effects of MTBE: A Literature Summary on MTBE's

"There are differing views amongst scientists regarding the potential health effects of methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE). Numerous summaries on the health effects of MTBE have been compiled by federal [1-8], state [9-12], and international [13,14] agencies. After the introduction of oxygenated fuels containing MTBE, there were reports of acute human-health effects such as nausea, dizziness, and headaches by people exposed to fuel vapors in air. However, these symptoms have not been clearly linked to MTBE exposure [1-3,7,11,12]. The human-health effects of long-term inhalation or oral exposures to MTBE are unknown [3,15], although several reports indicate that chronic noncancer health effects are not likely to result under the intermittent, low-level exposures experienced by humans [4-6], such as inhaling vapors when refueling automobiles. There are no published findings on the carcinogenicity of MTBE in humans [6,11,16], but MTBE has been shown to cause cancer in rats and mice exposed at high levels via inhalation or gavage (MTBE introduced to the stomach using a tube) over their lifetimes [2,3,8,17]. There has been considerable scientific discussion regarding the relevance of these animal cancer study results to humans [10,11], and a range of conclusions has been drawn regarding the carcinogenicity of MTBE. The National Toxicology Program does not recommend listing MTBE in its Report on Carcinogens [18]. The International Agency for Research on Cancer classifies MTBE as a Group 3 carcinogen (that is, not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans) [13]. *In contrast, other agencies have not formally classified MTBE as to its carcinogenicity to humans, but they have published reports indicating that MTBE should be regarded as posing a potential carcinogenic risk to humans based on animal cancer data [5,6,8,10,11]*. Although the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA) concludes that "MTBE poses a potential for human carcinogenicity at high doses" based on animal data, these animal data "do not support confident, quantitative estimation of risk at low exposure" [8]. Therefore, USEPA's Office of Water has based its drinking-water guidance on taste and odor thresholds (20 to 40 µg/L) in humans, which are several thousand times lower than the exposure levels in which cancer or noncancer effects were observed in animal tests [19]. For more information about the potential health effects of MTBE, contact your state drinking-water agency [20,21]."

"13.	International Agency for Research on Cancer, 1999, Some chemicals that cause tumours of the kidney or urinary bladder in rodents and some other substances: IARC monographs on the evaluation of carcinogenic risks to humans: France, IARC Press, v. 73, 674 p."

Excessive carbon and CO are suppose to be consumed by the catylitic converter, but worthless until the cat warms up. MBTE percentages have to add 2.7% of oxygen by weight to be effective for reducing CO and normally done in the colder months of the year. Thus summer and winter gas.

Two bad we don't have two fuel tanks, a small one for MBTE's that switches over to the larger one after the cat warm up.Or just switch to a lower content fuel such as natural gas or methane that we seem to have a huge supply of.

In effect just trading one so-call health risk for another, personally I would take CO, a much quicker and painless form of death. Yes, we are all going to die. For engine carbon, even more additives have to added to gasoline to retard the carbon buildup. Not too much data of these side effects.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Spaced out, I think we were talking about Ohio earlier. For the stations that actually marked content, it's marked up to 15% ethanol content.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

MTBE is only found is small Quantity's in most fuel today since its use as an octane booster has been replaced for the most part with ethanol. If your running no ethanol gas in your car, you can bet your burning more MTBE than he average american is. You can use google to find the MSDS for each brand of fuel, not all brands have MTBE in it. 

Gasoline | Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE) | US EPA


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Merc6 said:


> Spaced out, I think we were talking about Ohio earlier. For the stations that actually marked content, it's marked up to 15% ethanol content.


It may say that, but currently only 88 or 90 octane fuel is made at the 15% ethanol level and only found at less than 75 stations nation wide. Per EPA regulations it also can only be legally dispensed from a red handled hose separate from regular gasoline or a flex fuel pump/hose that you select a ethanol %. 

Found one oddball station in my area instead of the generic up to E10 ethanol signage, they listed regular and premium as E10 but midgrade 89 octane at E5. 

This website has a good list of what states require ethanol content listings at the pump, if you live in a state that requires no label, that means if it is labelled it doesn't need to be accurate. Ohio is one state that requires no label at all. 
Ethanol Labeling Laws - State by State Guide.


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## jcihos (Jun 9, 2013)

Basically Non-Oxy is mainly used for off road vehicles here in MN. I run it in my snowmobile, tractor, snowblower, etc since it will not leave any nasty crud in the carbs if I don't get around to cleaning it out in a timely manner. From what I have heard you aren't supposed to run it in a daily driven vehicle but I know people who do and they say it improve gas mileage. Here is the actual statue if you want to read it https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=239.791


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

I cannot use any ethanol based fuels in my 82 motorhome, 86 Volvo boat engine, that is the only vehicle that has a sign on it, do not use ethanol. Nor my 88 Supra without knowing any better, destroyed the entire fuel system, that really teed me off, that cost me a small fortune even doing all the work myself, fuel tank, fuel pump, regulator, and injectors. Also in none of my small engines.

Son was using 10% ethanol in his brand new snowthrower about five years ago, that sure made a mess and gave his dad some extra work. My 2004 Cavalier if you read the manual with an electron microscope said can use up to 10% ethanol, but only on a limited basis, whatever in the heck this means.

Only way around here to buy ethanol free gas is with 91 octane, its very difficult to find in Milwaukee, but now seeing a couple of gas stations selling ethanol free gas in 89 octane. All 87 octane is up to 10% ethanol whatever in the heck this means also. When driving to Milwaukee, make darn sure I have enough gas to get north again. 

This is what ethanol did to my Supra fuel pump armature, won't bore you with the rest of the photos, but was jammed tighter than a drum.

View attachment 152658


Some vehicles are called bi-fuel where you can use E-85, but the guys I have talked to, not worth it, fuel economy is terrible and cost a lot more per mile. So I stay strictly with ethanol free top tier 91 octane fuel. I was in a small engine shop, ATV's, motorcycles, lawn mowers, snowthrowers, everybody was screaming with problems. All ethanol related, fuel stablizer does not work.

Feel the government has no dang business changing the fuel without consulting manufacturers first. And since the introduction of ethanol, the price of dairy and meat products at the grocery store has skyrocketed. Getting to be a treat today just to buy a pound of hamburger, forget about a steak.


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## GRIMland (Jun 1, 2014)

Jukebox Juliet said:


> Can someone give me a quick lesson about what this means?
> 
> said the fuel was non-oxygenated and meant for collector's vehicles. Haven't seen that before.
> 
> Sent with iLove 6.0


I've seen the signs too saying the non-oxy is meant for Collector vehicles, small engines, motorcycles, marines engines, etc. They have them at MN Fleet Farms, and a few other stations. It's just a sign that MN state energy dept encourages stations to use when selling non-oxy (non-ethanol) gas to discourage people from using it for normal vehicle fill ups, and in vehicles that can run on up to E10... because ethanol blend gas is so much better for the environment


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

GRIMland said:


> I've seen the signs too saying the non-oxy is meant for Collector vehicles, small engines, motorcycles, marines engines, etc. They have them at MN Fleet Farms, and a few other stations. It's just a sign that MN state energy dept encourages stations to use when selling non-oxy (non-ethanol) gas to discourage people from using it for normal vehicle fill ups, and in vehicles that can run on up to E10... because ethanol blend gas is so much better for the environment


I kinda wondered if that was the case. :/ 


Sent with iLove 6.0


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Non-oxy (ethanol free) gas is easy to get in Minnesota because there are so many boats, most of which are not fuel injected and are always around water. Ethanol absorbs water from the atmosphere. E10 absorbs 50 times more water from the atmosphere than ethanol free (also commonly called clear gas or pure gas) gasoline increasing the chance for large volumes of water in your fuel causing fuel systems problems and corrosion.

Since I've moved to the Portland, Oregon area I have to look far and wide to find ethanol free gas for my bike, and that at a healthy $1.00 more per gallon than E10 premium. There are only a small handful of stations that carry it in the metro area. Even in the small town where I lived in Minnesota had probably half a dozen stations with non-oxy, often at only $0.10-0.20 more per gallon than E10 premium.


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