# XtremeRevolution's Subwoofer Boxes



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

*XtremeRevolution's Subwoofer Boxes
*​ This thread will be dedicated to the design and sale of my custom subwoofer boxes and baffles. I've decided to make my services available to the community at an affordable price, as custom, well-built sub boxes are generally not cheap, and pre-fabricated boxes are generally junk. 

If you need a subwoofer box designed and can build your own, if you have a box and want to see how a sub will sound inside it, or if you need a box designed and built by me, you've come to the right place. *

Subwoofer Box Design* 
I offer my services for subwoofer box design *free of charge*. If you need a subwoofer box designed for a sub you own or will be purchasing to put in your Cruze, please reply to this thread and provide me with the following information: 

1. Make/Model of Subwoofer 
2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters (Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling) 
3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub 
4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier 
5. Types of music you primarily listen to 
6. Primary goal for performance (Sound quality, SPL, best use of a box you already own, smallest box possible, etc.) 

Based on the above information, I will provide you with a frequency response chart of a simulation for a given sub, in a specific box, with your car's cabin pressurization gain and boundary loading (cabin transfer function) to give you an idea of what it will sound like in your car. 

 *Subwoofer Box Sales* 
While I'd prefer to teach you how to build a good box, I understand that not everyone has access to the tools or space to build one, so I also offer my services for building a sub box for you should you need one built. *

Pricing: 
Single 10"-12": $195 
Dual 10"-12": $235*

The above pricing is for subs that require .75-1.25 cubic feet of internal volume per sub, sealed. I can provide you with a price for boxes that don't meet those dimensions or for 8" or 15" subwoofers on a case by case basis. Ported boxes will also be quoted on a case by case basis. 

These boxes will be built with routed bracing and an extra thick front baffle with a recess for the sub. These will be made out of 3/4" MDF, will be precision cut and routed, free of leaks, and will be nearly indestructible. Basically, the MDF material will fail before the joints do. They will be carpeted with your choice of either Black, Charcoal, or Medium Gray carpeting. I can substitute that for a different fabric (such as black shag, faux tiger fur, etc.) for an additional cost. A strip of speaker gasket tape and an adequate length of 12 gauge OFC wire will be included.

Prices include mineral wool as fill. Depending on where you live, expect shipping to be anywhere from $40-$80. Particularly large boxes may be more expensive, while particularly small ones may be less expensive. With double thick baffles and internal bracing, these boxes typically weigh 35-60lbs unloaded. As always, local pick-up is free. I am located in the southwest Chicago suburbs. 

I was recently asked why the prices of my boxes was so high. I figured I'd copy my response here so people could get an idea of what's involved.



> I use quality materials. I use 3/4" MDF instead of 5/8" like some companies do. I use latex backed cabinet fabric so it doesn't shed, I use a gold plated terminal, and 3M Super 77 spray adhesive to hold the cabinet fabric on so it doesn't peel off like I've seen happen on countless prefabbed boxes.
> I glue my boxes together with Titebond II wood glue. This might sound like a no-brainer, but if you actually take apart a pre-fabbed box, you'll find that they aren't actually glued. They are nailed or screwed together, and they are caulked on the inside. The caulk breaks apart after a little while and the box leaks everywhere. Gluing takes far more time. My boxes don't need caulk because the glue seals it perfectly. In fact, once clamped and dried, the bond is so strong that if you try to break apart two glued pieces of MDF, the MDF breaks before the glue joint does. In other words, short of severe water damage, my boxes are indestructible, and that's a difference you can hear. My sub boxes make subs sound louder and tighter than any cheap prefabbed box you can pull off a shelf (assuming same alignment).
> Design. I design them for free, but you won't find anyone else making 4-point bracing like this at anywhere near this price. A double thick baffle with a precision flush mount made specifically for the sub you're using? You will have a hard time finding any shop that can do this well, let alone at an affordable rate. My boxes are also designed to fit in the specific car while taking up as small of a footprint as possible.
> Custom work. Let's face it, I can't work for free, and I charge a heck of a lot less than a *good *retail shop will. You'll find prices in the $200-$500 range. For a single sub box, here are my rounded costs. $35 on MDF, $15 on cabinet fabric, $5 for the terminal, $10 for the spray adhesive, $5 for the wall damping, and figure in another $5 for things like crown staples, screws, and speaker gasket tape. Total is around $75, and I still have to put miles on my car and spend gas going to Home Depot or Menard's to pick up materials from time to time. I'm sure some of you have seen boxes for sale online, shipped to your door for that much as it costs me to make mine, but my boxes aren't made in China; they're made in my wood shop, which brings me to my next reason:
> ...


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Trust him he is smart. Look up his posts!


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

Very generous offer of your time on the free design work.:th_salute:


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## amalmer71 (Apr 5, 2012)

Good luck in your entrepreneurship.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

amalmer71 said:


> Good luck in your entrepreneurship.


Eh, I'm not really doing it to make a business out of it. I use my home theater speaker design for that. This is more something I'm trying to do for the community. A good custom box will run you about $400-$800 from a high end shop, and that's what I build.


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## SlvrECObullet (Feb 21, 2012)

This is awesome and will keep this in mind if I ever decide to upgrade more. 

Sent from my SCH-I500 using AutoGuide.com App


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## Nobody (Feb 12, 2012)

Can we get together some weekend and build one? I'll supply the stuff and a case of your choice


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nobody said:


> Can we get together some weekend and build one? I'll supply the stuff and a case of your choice


Sounds good to me. Let me know what sub will go in there so I can design one ahead of time and you'll see how a real sub box is built. I'll need 3/4" MDF, carpeting of your choice, 3M spray adhesive, and a terminal cup. I can probably find a terminal cup somewhere in my boxes of home theater speaker parts; they're $5.50 each (for the good ones at least). I usually buy the wood glue by the gallon because I go through it so fast. Any Saturday should work for me, but let me know ahead of time when you want to swing by. It should take about 3 hours to build one.


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## Nobody (Feb 12, 2012)

Alright cool. I'll let you know here soon (a week or two) what I'm thinking of getting as far as stereo stuff goes.

If I don't hear back from Insane Speed Motorsports, I'll dump the money I budgeted for those upgrades into my Electronics budget (Retro Fit / Stereo System) and I'll have more money to play around with.

Saturdays work best for me as well, and 3 hours isn't bad at all. I assumed it'd be most of the day. 

I'll pm you when I get more figured out.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nobody said:


> Alright cool. I'll let you know here soon (a week or two) what I'm thinking of getting as far as stereo stuff goes.
> 
> If I don't hear back from Insane Speed Motorsports, I'll dump the money I budgeted for those upgrades into my Electronics budget (Retro Fit / Stereo System) and I'll have more money to play around with.
> 
> ...


Well, there will probably need to be a few breaks in between to let some of the glue dry before we continue onto the next part, but I don't see it taking more than 5 hours. I'll keep an eye out for your PM.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

I know I asked you about a box for a JL sub but I forgot I had 2 MB Quartz rwe-204
Qes-.631, Qms-6.5, Fs-37, Vas-30.9, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling-150w. I have a A/D/S P240 and P440 not sure which to use but one will power the door speakers. I was going to try and put them in the left and rt corners of the car and going for sq. I can cut the wood and put together but I am terrible at design lol. I could not find the Sd or Xmax on the subs.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Juggernaut said:


> I know I asked you about a box for a JL sub but I forgot I had 2 MB Quartz rwe-204
> Qes-.631, Qms-6.5, Fs-37, Vas-30.9, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling-150w. I have a A/D/S P240 and P440 not sure which to use but one will power the door speakers. I was going to try and put them in the left and rt corners of the car and going for sq. I can cut the wood and put together but I am terrible at design lol. I could not find the Sd or Xmax on the subs.


What size sub are they technically? I'm seeing 8", can you confirm?

I can't find any information regarding those amps. What are the power ratings and at what impedance? Do you have the data sheet for them?


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> What size sub are they technically? I'm seeing 8", can you confirm?
> 
> I can't find any information regarding those amps. What are the power ratings and at what impedance? Do you have the data sheet for them?


Yes they are 8 and the P440 is 40x4 or 120x2 watts and I think the P240 is 60x2. I do not have the data sheet


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

found p440 manual check page 21 http://www.directeddealers.com/manuals/og/ads-mobile/ads_P440_Instruction_Manual.pdf


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I looked them up and confirmed they're 8" subs. 

Qts is too high to be used in a sealed box. Realistically, these are designed for ported boxes or free air use in rear decks, although they'll bottom out with anything over 50W in free air. 

If you want to use them though, you'll be pleasantly surprised at what they can do in a ported box, if you give them the space...

Put them in a ported box, ~1.15 cubic feet (gross) per sub and two 2" round ports at 12.5" in length for a tuning of around 33hz. You could lengthen the ports a bit, but I very highly recommend you use double flared round ports. These in particular, and you'd need 4 of them if you're building two boxes. 

Precision Port 2" Flared Port Tube Kit 268-348

If you're only building one box for both, build it to 2.3 cubic feet and use two 3" ports at 13.45" in length each, or one 4" port at 11" in length. 

Precision Port 3" Flared Port Tube Kit 268-350
Precision Port 4" Flared Port Tube Kit 268-352

Line all of the box walls except for the baffle with 2.5-3" of acoustic foam, mineral wool, or fiberglass insulation pad (the fluffy stuff unless you can get Owens-Corning 703 rigid fiberglass board). 

Frequency response looks great. Very good extension for an 8" sub. 









Excursion control at 75W is good. I think you could safely give them 100-150W each. 









Vent velocity is good and low, which is where it should be if you want to prevent port noise, chuffing, or de-tuning. 









Personally, I'd build these subs if I were you. They're low powered enough to where you can use 1/2" MDF with some bracing inside and a 3/4" MDF baffle instead of 3/4" MDF all around. It will save you a bit of space and you don't really need 3/4" MDF all around with low powered 8" subs if you're tight on space. The box requirement is a bit big, but they'll put a big smile on your face if you build them, I guarantee it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Juggernaut said:


> found p440 manual check page 21 http://www.directeddealers.com/manuals/og/ads-mobile/ads_P440_Instruction_Manual.pdf


I'm seeing 2 x 120W at 4ohms bridged. That would be perfect for those MB Quart subs! Looks like you're good to go!


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## R1XSTA (Aug 30, 2011)

Y u no in aus?


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

I also have a infinity 475a amp and a arc audio fd1200.1 amp should I use one of those instead of ads


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

Would you suggest building separate boxes or build one box


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Juggernaut said:


> I also have a infinity 475a amp and a arc audio fd1200.1 amp should I use one of those instead of ads


I would go with the Infinity. You'll have a bit more power out of that and you have some more power to be gained. 



Juggernaut said:


> Would you suggest building separate boxes or build one box


It all depends on where you want the subs. It would be easier and cheaper to build just one box.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would go with the Infinity. You'll have a bit more power out of that and you have some more power to be gained.
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on where you want the subs. It would be easier and cheaper to build just one box.



ok the infinity is a 4 channel amp for the fronts and rears 75 watts RMS x 4 channel at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N 180 watts RMS x 2 channel at 4 ohms, 14.4V supply and ≤ 1% THD + N


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

I should be starting to get things ready by the end of the month. Out of the 2 subs you suggested, Aura and Morel, the Morel isnt the SC correct? And which one of these are closer to being discontinued? Id like to get something that will be on the market for a few years and still offers some type of support in case I pop it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Juggernaut said:


> ok the infinity is a 4 channel amp for the fronts and rears 75 watts RMS x 4 channel at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N 180 watts RMS x 2 channel at 4 ohms, 14.4V supply and ≤ 1% THD + N


Yep, that would work very well. It's generally a good idea to overpower the subs to prevent from clipping the amp. 



CruzeTech said:


> I should be starting to get things ready by the end of the month. Out of the 2 subs you suggested, Aura and Morel, the Morel isnt the SC correct? And which one of these are closer to being discontinued? Id like to get something that will be on the market for a few years and still offers some type of support in case I pop it.


Correct, I referred to the Morel Ultimo, not the Ultimo SC. I think both the Aura and the Morel subs would work excellently, and both companies have a very good reputation. As for popping it, that would be unlikely. 

When referring to high quality subs, the only way to destroy a sub is to drive it beyond its mechanical excursion capability and cause it to bottom out (you'd have to be abusing it pretty badly to do that), or to send a clipped signal from the amplifier. Sending a clipped signal only really happens when you underpower a sub. Any high quality amplifier that provides a bit more power than the sub is rated for will be able to provide clean power. Both of these subs are SQ subs and should be treated as such. They're not SPL subs designed for massive amounts of synthetic bass, and they should be respected as musical instruments. 

If you were very concerned about blowing one of the subs, I'd direct you to the Image Dynamics subs. The IDQ and IDMax both have removable cones, which you can replace in 15 minutes. The cone assembly includes the rubber surround, the suspension/spider, and basically every moving part. The only thing remaining once you remove the cone is the magnet and the frame. Re-cone kits can be purchased directly from Image Dynamics. These are some of the only subs I know of that can do this. 

That said, if you treat a sub well and give it clean power, I don't see this being an issue. I have 4 IDQ V2 subs that were made about 10 years ago that work perfectly. Last year, I sold a Focal free-air 11" sub that was made in 1997 that also worked perfectly. So long as you treat it well, don't abuse it, and give it clean power, it will probably out-last your car.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Listen to this man! He knows his stuff.

Take his criticisms as positive ways of saving you time and money down the road


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Listen to this man! He knows his stuff.
> 
> Take his criticisms as positive ways of saving you time and money down the road


:sigh:

Thanks man. I'm not doing this for personal gain. If I tell anyone something they might not want to hear, I'm doing it for your own good, so you get the most out of your budget and efforts and don't make the same mistakes I did when I was starting out.


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## SQ Dreamer (Apr 14, 2012)

T-Lines?


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

Do you have any pics of custom enclosures you've built? I remembered you mentioning in a different thread before about building custom enclosures that fit into the Eco trunk floor and thought it was a cool idea.

Good luck with your business, I'm sure I'll be hitting you up next time I have audio questions.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Skilz10179 said:


> Do you have any pics of custom enclosures you've built? I remembered you mentioning in a different thread before about building custom enclosures that fit into the Eco trunk floor and thought it was a cool idea.
> 
> Good luck with your business, I'm sure I'll be hitting you up next time I have audio questions.


I don't have any pics right now aside from a few completed boxes. I'll start building a box today to give people an idea of what these look like and will take pictures along the way. Most of the custom part of this is being able to tailor the box to someone's specific subs and specific car's cabin transfer function, something to this date I haven't seen anyone be able to do. Most people will just equalize the **** out of it. I prefer to do it with the box so you don't need a parametric equalizer.

I'll try to find time to work on an enclosure that fits into the eco trunk floor. That's going to be a bit more of a challenge as there are a few angles to worry about and several cuts to be made.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

Hey Xtremerevolution, I may be in the market for a box. Here is some of the info you said you'd need. 

Alpine SWR-843D (SWR843D) 8" Dual 4 ohm Type-R Car Subwoofer/Sub
Boston Acoustics GT-2125 (gt2125) GT Reference 2-Channel Amplifier

I'm looking to maximize trunk space, while making sure I have some SQ. I think that sums it up.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> Hey Xtremerevolution, I may be in the market for a box. Here is some of the info you said you'd need.
> 
> Alpine SWR-843D (SWR843D) 8" Dual 4 ohm Type-R Car Subwoofer/Sub
> Boston Acoustics GT-2125 (gt2125) GT Reference 2-Channel Amplifier
> ...


Didn't I just recommend you those? lol!

As I mentioned, I can build a box like that for about $125 plus shipping.

I can have it done and shipped out within a week.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

do you know how much shipping should be? Chicago to LA my zip is 90803. Also, could you send me the design you were thinking so i can have a chance to get my head wrapped around what it would be like.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> do you know how much shipping should be? Chicago to LA my zip is 90803. Also, could you send me the design you were thinking so i can have a chance to get my head wrapped around what it would be like.


There's not much to the design. I would probably decide on somewhere between .4 and .6 cubic feet. The baffle would be two sheets of MDF; one 3/4" sheet that the sub mounts to, and either a 1/2" sheet or a 3/4" sheet on top of that to allow the sub to be recessed. I will add some bracing to ensure that the walls don't flex, although an 8" sub really won't have any problems. I also line the back wall with mineral wool which I get from ATS Acoustics to absorb any higher frequencies from harmonics. I'll install a quality terminal cup, use 12 gauge wiring inside, and carpet it with whichever color you want. The side panels will be recessed in 3/4" so that you can have edges to grip onto in order to lift the box or move it around easily. 

I hope this answers your questions. If you're looking for specific dimensions, that's something we can figure out as dimensions are never set in stone, but the box has to be tall and wide enough to mount the sub without drilling holes into the top and side panel, and deep enough to fit the sub itself with at least 3/4" of space behind the sub itself to allow the pole piece vent to breathe.

Shipping to LA would probably be around $25-$40.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

After trying to figure out where I'd put these pictures, I decided that this thread would be the right place for it. Since not everyone has a good understanding of what goes into building a custom sub box, I've been taking step by step pictures of my progress making mine, which is how I build all of my sub boxes. If you have a slow internet connection, I'm sorry. These are high res photos. Click to enlarge. 

First, I start with bare sheets of MDF. I use MDF because it's a dead material (doesn't resonate easily or let sound pass through it), and it's cheap. Last time I bought it, it was $32 for an 8ft x 4ft sheet. The downsides are that it's heavy, the dust created is very fine and isn't particularly good to breathe on a daily basis, and it wears out saw blades and router bits more quickly than real wood. 









The sub I'll be installing is an Image Dynamics IDQ15 V2 D2. 









I flush mount all of my sub boxes because they look great and it better protects the sub from foreign objects in my trunk. The flush mount panel also adds rigidity to the baffle, which is important. To decide if I want 1/2" or 3/4" MDF for the flush mount, I measure the sub itself to determine thickness. Here we have just under half an inch. 









"1/2" MDF" is just a bit thicker than 1/2"









"3/4" MDF" is just a bit thicker than 3/4"









Got the measurements and the MDF on the table saw. Carbide, fine-toothed blades aren't necessary for MDF, but I was too lazy to change it out for my standard 12" blade this time for just one box. As always, measure 3 times, cut once. While MDF is cheap, time isn't always. 









All panels are cut. From left to right, you have the back, front, and flush mount sheets, then the top, bottom, left, and right sheets, and then you have two more from which I'll cut out the bracing. 









Got clamps? Sadly, I actually need about 2x this many if I want to build two boxes at a time. You could do it with less, but it would take longer. You'd need at least 8 clamps to build a good sub box. 









Lining up the sheets to make sure they fit well. Once you've measured 3 times and cut once, you mock fit everything to make sure you don't glue up something that won't work, just in case you screwed up somewhere. I'm leaving a 3/4" gap on the edge there so I have something to grab when you try to lift the box out of the trunk or move it around. 









Glue, and a good amount of it. That's all you need to attach these panels. No screws, no nails, as those are 100% unnecessary. If you've ever welded before, you'll know that the weld is often stronger than the steel. This applies in this case. Once the glue dries, the joint is stronger than the MDF itself. There is zero need to use anything else. I use and highly recommend Titebond II. 









Clamp down the first panel. Have a roll of paper towels ready to wipe off the excess that gets squeezed out.









Two panels are now clamped together tightly. 









...three panels. Are you seeing why you need so many clamps? I like to clamp every 6 inches for an even and uniform clamping pressure. You don't want to over-clamp one specific spot as you can create an indentation in the MDF on the edges and cause it to split.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Wipe off the glue on the edges before it drips all over the floor. Not recommended for doing on a carpet, lol. 









Now it's time to let it dry for 20-30 minutes









In the meantime, I started on the bracing. I cut these sheets a little bit higher than needed so I have somewhere to drill the pivot hole for the circle jig. I then draw a line across where it will be cut. 









Set up the jasper circle jig on the router. I can cut circles up to 18" in diameter in increments of 1/16"









Nail down the boards to be cut so they don't move. 2.25hp router in your hands has a lot of potential. I usually nail this down to a scrap piece of MDF, using a pin nailer. 22 gauge, 1" long pins are long enough to hold it down securely, but allow me to pop the panel out with a few whacks from a mallet. 









Precision routing. To preserve the bit and keep it from overheating in MDF, you have to cut 1/4" or less of material at a time. Usually takes a few sweeps, but it's better than burning the bit and having to spend $30 on another one. 









Trimming the edges with my 8" compound sliding miter saw. I have this hooked up to a shop vac to keep dust under control. 









Got the second brace cut out...









Cutting out the outer baffle...









Test fitting the sub in the flush mount cutout. Perfect. I left 1/16" of gap to fit the carpeting. 









Forgot to take a picture of the main baffle cutout, but here's the test fit for that. Also perfect.









Bracing is all trimmed up. Gluing it in place...









Gluing on the last side panel. Don't forget to wipe the edges!

















It's coming along!









All dried up!









Gluing the main baffle and flush mount panel together. 









Test fitting the sub. Perfect fit! It's almost a bit too tight as I still need to put carpeting over those edges. I'll probably have to persuade the sub to fit in there. 









Time to glue some mineral wool. I get scrap mineral wool from ATS Acoustics for fairly cheap in a large box. The idea is to absorb the higher frequency backwaves from harmonics and not have them bounce around in the box and hit the cone again. The fill also helps make the box "sound" like it's bigger than it really is, which is always good when you're low on space. It helps smooth the frequency response. This all gets glued down with 3M adhesive spray. I've tried other adhesive sprays and nothing compares. I use mineral wool because it's a superior material. ****, they make wall acoustic panels out of it. Much better than polyfill, and much cheaper (and better performing) than acoustic foam. Doesn't have to be pretty here, just functional. 

















I'm filling everywhere but the center. You'll also noticed I trimmed out the center of the braces. This is because once I mounted the sub, I discovered that the mounting depth wasn't correct on the manual from ID (or I read it wrong), and the rear pole piece vent was a bit too close to the bracing for comfort. I trimmed them out in no time. I'm keeping the mineral wool away from there so the pole piece vent can breathe easily. 









Mineral wool is all glued up and done. This is where I stopped last night. More pictures to come when I make some more progress later this week.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

Wow that is awesome write up so far!!!! I have gotten nowhere with my design kinda stuck or overthinking, but cant wait to see the rest!!!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got a bit more done today. I attached the baffle to the rest of the box. The braces lined up just like I wanted them to according to the cutout of the sub. 

































I'll run down to the fabric store tomorrow to find something fun to cover it with. Most people prefer just a plain black carpet, but I like to mix it up a bit. Last sub box I made for myself for my IDMax10 used faux tiger fur. Nothing like a sub box that you want to snuggle with by the fireplace.

:blink:










I also made one with black shag once upon a time...


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow, awesome pics, and how to. I was under the impression that the panels were assembled with screws. good to know.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> Wow, awesome pics, and how to. I was under the impression that the panels were assembled with screws. good to know.


Yeah, screws are the worst way to build a sub box. It's extremely easy to split the MDF when using screws, and there's no point to it when the wood glue joint is stronger than the MDF. One advantage to MDF is that it absorbs water very quickly, so when you clamp it together with wood in between two edges, the wood glue absorbs as it dries and hardens structurally to the MDF.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got the clamps off the box.

















Test fitting in the trunk. This is exactly what I wanted it to look like. I wanted it to just barely fit under the rear deck beam, and be just deep enough to not go over the ridge on the carpeting floor. Can't wait to hear this thing play. 

























Got the smaller jasper jig on there to make the cutout for the terminal cup

















A perfect fit again. I love circle jigs!









Solid screw-type posts on this terminal cup. No spring loaded terminals for me.









Gave the box a good sanding with my RAS (random orbital sander) and put the sub in for a test fit.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

Hey XtremeRevolution, 

That box looks way awesome, I really want to see if can do this on my own, that would be a mighty task in itself. I was wondering, does the box shape itself effect sound quality? Such as cube shaped as opposed to wedge shaped. You said you design the boxes for free, right? I'd like to have a go a building my sub box, so if you could work up the designs for me that would be great. Also, I was looking at the sub you recommended for me, Alpine SWR-843D (SWR843D) 8" Dual 4 ohm Type-R Car Subwoofer/Sub, and from the web photos, since i have not bought it yet, looks like you screw it to the box from the inside? is this right? or is there a small rim that just covers the screws after you screw it in from outside the box? This sounds like a ridiculous question, but from what i'm seeing I can't help but ask.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> Hey XtremeRevolution,
> 
> That box looks way awesome, I really want to see if can do this on my own, that would be a mighty task in itself. I was wondering, does the box shape itself effect sound quality? Such as cube shaped as opposed to wedge shaped. You said you design the boxes for free, right? I'd like to have a go a building my sub box, so if you could work up the designs for me that would be great. Also, I was looking at the sub you recommended for me, Alpine SWR-843D (SWR843D) 8" Dual 4 ohm Type-R Car Subwoofer/Sub, and from the web photos, since i have not bought it yet, looks like you screw it to the box from the inside? is this right? or is there a small rim that just covers the screws after you screw it in from outside the box? This sounds like a ridiculous question, but from what i'm seeing I can't help but ask.


Having owned a few Type-R subs in the past, I can say that they do indeed have a trim ring that get placed over the edge to cover up the screws. 

I can design you a box. Are you limited on space? This sub does very well in both ported and sealed boxes. It really comes to life in a ported box, but if you're low on space, sealed works very well too.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

I was hoping to conserve as much space as possible. Is there any difference between rectangular and wedge like boxes?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

After seeing these pictures I want you to build my casket albeit I'm only 22. Just make sure my 4 12's have their place haha


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> I was hoping to conserve as much space as possible. Is there any difference between rectangular and wedge like boxes?


Sealed will be the way to go. Doesn't matter if you go rectangular or wedge as long as you clear the sub when you mount it. The wavelengths of the frequencies this sub will play are much, much too long to be affected by the shape of the box in this size. 

Go for .7 cubic feet sealed gross volume. Mounting depth is 4.525". If you want to try to make a wedge, you can use this site to help you crunch the numbers. 

Speaker Enclosure Volume Calculator

If you make a double thick baffle, don't include the outer flush mount panel in those dimensions. I personally wouldn't try to make a wedge and just make a rectangular box. Due to the ridge you have right before the seats in the trunk, you won't benefit much if at all from something like that. 



jherman08 said:


> After seeing these pictures I want you to build my casket albeit I'm only 22. Just make sure my 4 12's have their place haha


Speaking of those 4 12s, my IDQ15 build is now going to be second priority to a new build (yours), and this one's going to be big. I brought home two 4x8 foot sheets of 3/4" MDF today. Pictures will be posted of my progress. My deadline is to drop this off at FedEx on Sunday.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

:iloveyou: HAHAHA


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> :iloveyou: HAHAHA


Got some progress done even though I haven't started cutting. I finally came up with a design I liked. This should have no problem fitting in your trunk. 

Not including the double thick baffles, you're looking at 15" height x 32" width x 23.75" depth for a total of ~4.75 cubic feet with 1" edges to give you something to grab the box to lift it. Exact volume will be slightly less than that given whatever bracing actually displaces, but should be fairly close. I confirmed that the IDQ12 does work best in 1 cubic foot, but going a slight bit bigger brings your bottom end up a slight bit more. I called Dan at ID to confirm that this would work, and we're good to go in that department. 

Hopefully, I'll be able to fire up the table saw tonight or tomorrow after work and get started.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Got some progress done even though I haven't started cutting. I finally came up with a design I liked. This should have no problem fitting in your trunk.
> 
> Not including the double thick baffles, you're looking at 15" height x 32" width x 23.75" depth for a total of ~4.75 cubic feet with 1" edges to give you something to grab the box to lift it. Exact volume will be slightly less than that given whatever bracing actually displaces, but should be fairly close. I confirmed that the IDQ12 does work best in 1 cubic foot, but going a slight bit bigger brings your bottom end up a slight bit more. I called Dan at ID to confirm that this would work, and we're good to go in that department.
> 
> Hopefully, I'll be able to fire up the table saw tonight or tomorrow after work and get started.


Calling IDQ is going above and beyond man, I can't wait!


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## jnot2 (Apr 18, 2012)

Great thead Extreme. I am looking at building my sub box for the following Infinity 860W (860-W) 8" Single 4 ohm Reference Series Subwoofer. I would love your input on box design. I will be using 2 of the Infinity 860W that I already have. Would like to keep it small and try to utilize the least amount of space. Dont know if 1 dual box or 2 smaller single boxes would work best. If going with the 2 smaller single boxes can they be placed on the fender sides tucked in the space behind the rear wheels and facing each other without compromizing sound quaility. Looking forward to working this project along with your other thead on SQ in the Cruze. Keep up the good work...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jnot2 said:


> Great thead Extreme. I am looking at building my sub box for the following Infinity 860W (860-W) 8" Single 4 ohm Reference Series Subwoofer. I would love your input on box design. I will be using 2 of the Infinity 860W that I already have. Would like to keep it small and try to utilize the least amount of space. Dont know if 1 dual box or 2 smaller single boxes would work best. If going with the 2 smaller single boxes can they be placed on the fender sides tucked in the space behind the rear wheels and facing each other without compromizing sound quaility. Looking forward to working this project along with your other thead on SQ in the Cruze. Keep up the good work...


.45 cubic feet gross for each sub looks good. You can use two boxes or one, doesn't really matter. I would recommend 1.5" thick acoustic foam on all of the walls except for the baffle. 

Acoustic Foam 1-1/2" x 24" x 18" UL 94 260-516


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## jnot2 (Apr 18, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> .45 cubic feet gross for each sub looks good. You can use two boxes or one, doesn't really matter. I would recommend 1.5" thick acoustic foam on all of the walls except for the baffle.
> 
> Acoustic Foam 1-1/2" x 24" x 18" UL 94 260-516


Thanks for the reponse. For a dual box should the subs be seperated by a divider so each sub gets .45 cubic feet or with no divider and a .90 cubic feet box.. Thanks. And What is your time frame for your SQ thread on the install as I am planning on following your lead on this.. Thanks again.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jnot2 said:


> Thanks for the reponse. For a dual box should the subs be seperated by a divider so each sub gets .45 cubic feet or with no divider and a .90 cubic feet box.. Thanks. And What is your time frame for your SQ thread on the install as I am planning on following your lead on this.. Thanks again.


They can use a shared volume without a problem. I'd put a small brace in the center though. 

Time frame? Who knows. My guess is 1-2 months from this point. I'm getting orders in to build sub boxes now so that's taking priority. If you have questions though, just ask.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

Hey xTremeRevolution,

When building the box for my 8" alpine type R sub, do I need to put the bracers in there like you have? And, I've never installed an amp or sub before so brands of wiring are quality? I understand the whole gauge concept. I just don't want to buy crap quality wiring kits.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> Hey xTremeRevolution,
> 
> When building the box for my 8" alpine type R sub, do I need to put the bracers in there like you have? And, I've never installed an amp or sub before so brands of wiring are quality? I understand the whole gauge concept. I just don't want to buy crap quality wiring kits.


For a single 8" sub, 8 gauge wire will be just fine, but make sure it's 100% oxygen-free copper. Many companies will sell you power wire that's copper clad aluminum. It's difficult to differentiate the two, but CCA has significantly less capacity and corrodes easily in engine bays. Brands don't matter as long as it's true AWG spec. Some brands will sell you a 4 gauge wire, and it will come with a thick jacket and a thin wire inside that's closer to 6 gauge or even 8 gauge, with the thick jacket making it look larger than it really is. Try avoid those. You can just go to your nearest industrial supply store and get some welding wire if you want. Amp Installation Kits, HDMI Cables has excellent power wire. For inside the box and from the box to the amp, one 12 gauge wire is more than enough. 

You don't need really need to worry about bracing for that small of a sub, especially if you're using a double thick baffle. The box will be too small to flex with 3/4" MDF and an 8" sub. You could add a couple of straight bar-type braces that connect the baffle to the back panel if you wanted to though to strengthen the back panel. Something that's 2-3" wide. Just don't screw into the bracing when you mount the sub because it will split.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Started cutting. Cutting huge pieces of MDF is harder than it looks. The MDF wasn't true on one of the edges this time. It happens sometimes. I created a heck of a lot more dust than I have in a long, long time. 









Got all of the external cuts done and one of the braces. Still need to cut 6 more sheets for bracing and one more sheet for the double thick baffle for the subs that will be firing up. This box requires significantly more cuts than your typical 1-2 sub box. 









Started clamping it together. I didn't have any 24" clamps, so I had to buy them and harbor freight only had 8, so I'm limited to how much I can do at a time. Oh well. 

























That's all for today.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got the front baffle started today. I decided I was sick of breathing MDF dust and having my face covered in it, so I mounted my dust extraction kit and hooked up the shop vac. You can't really see the dust extraction bracket because it's clear









Flush mount panel holes cut









Test fitting









Since these subs are 5/8" thick, a 45 degree chamfer was used on the flush mount panel.









Got clamps?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Important lesson to keep in mind when building sub boxes: don't throw away scrap pieces unless they're very small. 

Bonus nachos to whoever can figure out what each of these clamps do. They all serve a purpose, and they were all necessary.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Looks like it may be holding each piece of bracing? Looks great BTW


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Looks like it may be holding each piece of bracing? Looks great BTW


Well yeah, but some of it got a bit challenging to figure out. Between the wider brace and the bottom panel, there was a gap, so I used several scrap pieces to create a lever to push it down from the inside. I also used two more scrap pieces to push the bottom of the wider brace toward the back. You'll notice that not all of those pieces have glue seeping out of them.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Random shot of the tools outside. Top panel done. 









Top panel glued on.









Flush mount panel for the top subs glued on.









At this point, all of the cutting is done. I need to do some flush trim routing in the back to clean up the flush mount top panel, but otherwise I'm done creating MDF dust with this box. Two more braces are still going in for the front subs, and then the front baffle gets mounted. 

I tested fitted this in box in my Cruze, and it looks good in there. Not a whole lot of room left in the trunk once you put this in there, but it definitely works. It's almost a tight fit getting the box in there through the trunk opening. Almost. It certainly will be a bit impossible to get it in there or out alone. 

Just so I don't forget to say this later, be careful where you bump these subs. You may find your trunk busted open and your stuff gone one day like I did 6 or 7 years ago. These things will be very loud and very clean sounding.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Is there anyway to deterrent theft? I wanted to put a huge Image dynamics sticker on my rear window but am having second thoughts... Even a Captain America logo on the rear would help someone recognize the only cruze in the area with $2000 sitting in the trunk

Is it just me or does that box look sick?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Is there anyway to deterrent theft? I wanted to put a huge Image dynamics sticker on my rear window but am having second thoughts... Even a Captain America logo on the rear would help someone recognize the only cruze in the area with $2000 sitting in the trunk
> 
> Is it just me or does that box look sick?


Yeah, don't advertise. Don't bump your subs in your own neighborhood. Watch out for people that might be following you. Putting an image dynamics sticker in the window is like putting up a shopping list for thieves. 

Having a shop install a basic alarm is one way. I paid $450 to have my Viper alarm installed in my Regal after my sound system got stolen the first time. Making it so your sub cannot be stolen is another way. This is a fairly large sub box that will require 2 people to get it out of the trunk. Make it extremely difficult or impossible for the box to be removed, and you might only have to deal with a broken window instead of a missing sound system.

If by sick you mean incredibly [email protected]$$, then yes, it is very sick, lol. Just got the last bits of bracing glued in. Main baffle is next.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Just need to let it dry before I remove the clamps, then I need to spray glue in some mineral wool, and we're done!

****, that was a lot of work.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Amazing, I think everyone else is jealous... :3tens:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got the clamps off since the wood is dry enough. I'll sand down some of the edges with the orbital sander real quick so it's a bit cleaner looking and so you won't have edges sticking out if you carpet it with a thin fabric. 

Tomorrow I'll glue in the mineral wool and take it to FedEx.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

If that doesn't show off your skills I'm not sure what will :bowing:

Just curious as to why all the prefab boxes have all 4 subs walled off into their own "section"?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> If that doesn't show off your skills I'm not sure what will :bowing:
> 
> Just curious as to why all the prefab boxes have all 4 subs walled off into their own "section"?


Because they figure you want all of the subs in their own separate chamber. Makes it easier if you're wiring them off of two separate amplifiers, or an amplifier with two separate channels that aren't bridged. That way, you don't have to gain match both subs. 

It's also easier to not route each brace individually, but that unfortunately also requires more space. Having each sub in its own separate chamber makes it a bit easier to troubleshoot should one go bad, but I never really saw the point to it otherwise.

If you're running all of the subs off of one amplifier channel, there's really no point to having separate chambers.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok last question, how do you figure the cubic ft per sub?

That box looks indestructible where as the prefabbed ones look like cardboard haha


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok last question, how do you figure the cubic ft per sub?
> 
> That box looks indestructible where as the prefabbed ones look like cardboard haha


How do I figure it out, or how do I measure it?

The spreadsheets I use to model sub boxes have calculations to determine volume based on dimensions. I plug in height, width, depth, and material thickness, and it tells me what the internal volume is. If you add bracing, it will reduce the internal volume a bit, but it won't be a severe amount. I made the box a bit over-sized to start so it would be slightly bigger than needed. I think in the end, my calculation was 4.7 cubic feet not including the bracing or subwoofer displacement. They each displace .5 cubic feet, so figure 4.5 cubic feet. I don't think the bracing uses up more than .2 cubic feet. 

The box is pretty much indestructible. So long as you don't let moisture get to it (such as a water leak in the trunk), it should last the life of the car and more. The box is also fairly heavy. One person could move it if it's empty, but not if there are subs mounted inside. 

The idea here behind all of the bracing and the double thick baffles is to increase rigidity. Any time the box flexes, your sound quality suffers. The box walls will resonate and create distortion, and the subs will not be able to create solid, powerful bass notes. The bracing keeps all of the walls completely firm and prevents them from flexing, and the double thick baffles create a solid plane to which the subs will mount that will definitely not move, flex, or vibrate. It all makes a fairly large difference in the end over a pre-fabbed box, not including the longevity factor. 

Once you get the box, you'll see what I mean in person. It's built like a tank. 

The sub's cutout is 11", and I made the cutout exactly 11". Don't be surprised if you have to lightly press fit the sub in there. The sub's maximum diameter is 12.46". I made it 12.75" to give you a bit of extra space in case your fabric is a bit thicker than expected and to account for the possibility of a small variation in centering of the flush mount baffle and the main baffle. The bracing should be just deep enough for the sub to barely clear it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Quick shot of the box in the car. I took it to get a shipping quote at FedEx. Just need to try boxing it up now. Apparently FedEx won't ship a nearly indestructible box unless it's inside a cardboard box. Something about their conveyor destroying it.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Just want to let everyone know what a standup guy X is. 

He's going above and beyond to get this worked out as I've had a few problems on my end not making it as simple as I had hoped.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

This box has been paid for in full and will be on its way to his house tomorrow morning.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Box has been dropped off at FedEx and is on its way!

Josh, I'll send you the tracking number in a pm when I get home.

Oh, and one more thing. It's heavy, so be careful lifting it. 80 pounds.

Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got a few more pictures that I didn't upload earlier. 

Mineral wool glued onto the walls where needed:

























Stick your face in one of those holes and try talking. You'll see why I put the mineral wool in there. It absorbs a lot of sound in the box. 

Wires are soldered on! I made it easy for you. Just connect each wire to one of the subs, and connect the amplifier wire to one of the terminals. They're connected on the outside. 









I used a few too many staples on this box, lol. They're not deep and will come out with a pair of pliers. Just rip the cardboard off.









One more thing I forgot to mention. I put an extra MDF piece on the front of the box so it would stay level. I used my pin nailer to hold it down, which means there's really only 1/4" of nail actually going into the box. These are 22 gauge "needle nails" so you can just wedge something under that piece and it should lift right off.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

A few people have asked me why I recommend mineral wool or fill in boxes. I'll try to explain as well as possible. 

Mineral wool, polyfill, fiberglass pad, or acoustic foam as a sound absorption medium is important. To start, it flattens the frequency response curve a bit, which helps bring out a "musical" sound to it. In boxes where space is very limited, it helps lower the Qts (albeit marginally) of the box and makes the box sound larger than it is. 

However, the biggest reason why I install it and recommend it is to absorb harmonics. All speaker cones including subwoofers generate upper harmonics. The problem with plain boxes is that those harmonics are played both in the front of the cone and behind it. They will then bounce around inside the box, and find their way back into the cone. This is essentially the cone playing sounds that the amplifier is not instructing it to, aka distortion. Often times, lining some of the walls like I do won't actually affect the sub's bandwidth, but will help absorb the above-bandwidth material so the sub sounds cleaner and more accurate. It's a small bit more work to make the boxes sound just a little bit better. 

I use mineral wool because I get fairly cheap as scrap material from ATS Acoustics, and it is very, very effective at absorbing sound, which is proven by the fact that it's used for wall treatment.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Now that Josh's box was done, I had a chance to work on my own box and finish it up. 

It's always a challenge covering a box with fabric instead of carpet. MUCH less room for error, and you have to be very careful not to overdo the adhesive spray, and clean the nozzle often so you don't get any drops that will turn to black spots. I'd consider this a complete success, and I absolutely love how it looks. Exactly what I was going for. 

I'll let the pictures speak for themselves this time. 


























































































































































If you're curious, it is indeed a two tone fabric. The center is a darker blue. The white strips should shine very nicely under the blue LED I have in the trunk. I'll probably go out and pick up some more of this fabric to use for the amp board. 

The sub itself fit exactly how I wanted it to. I literally had to press the edge of it down with quite a bit of pressure to wedge the sub into the box. If I had made the flush mount panel 1/32" smaller, it wouldn't have fit. I didn't take pictures of it, but I put a ring of speaker gasket tape on the mounting baffle to seal the sub as well. 

I'm currently listening to the sub in my home theater (I use a QSC 425W x 2 @ 4ohms pro amp for my subs) and I am seriously in audio heaven right now.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Paying $240 to round trip ship my box back and have you fabric it haha


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Paying $240 to round trip ship my box back and have you fabric it haha


Haha. I'm fairly certain you could do just as well with some practice. It's much easier with cabinet carpet. 

Let me know when you decide to get started on carpeting your box and I can walk you through it.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

Hey Xtremerevolution,

I know this is a little off topic from the original thread, but I just installed the speakers you recommended plus tweeters and amp, and i'm no expert on sound quality, but holy bjesus, there's a world of a difference between stock and what you recommended. I'm saying that now and I havent even built a box or installed the sub yet. Cheers. Xtreme knows what he's talking about. If you are interested in true SQ listen up.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> Hey Xtremerevolution,
> 
> I know this is a little off topic from the original thread, but I just installed the speakers you recommended plus tweeters and amp, and i'm no expert on sound quality, but holy bjesus, there's a world of a difference between stock and what you recommended. I'm saying that now and I havent even built a box or installed the sub yet. Cheers. Xtreme knows what he's talking about. If you are interested in true SQ listen up.


Very glad to hear you like it. I knew you would. 

Did you ever end up getting any sound deadening for your doors? If you want to take your sound quality even a step farther, that would be your next upgrade.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

As of right now, I've bought the sub, and I'm going to build the box for it. That's all my budget allows for now. But later down the line, that would be my next addition/step.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> As of right now, I've bought the sub, and I'm going to build the box for it. That's all my budget allows for now. But later down the line, that would be my next addition/step.


Let me know if you have any questions as you're building the box. I'd recommend having at least 10 clamps. 

In other news, I have two more orders in. Got one box built for dual IDQ12 V3s and still need to carpet it. For this box, the guy wants me to cover it in black shag, same as the dual IDQ10 V2 box I posted earlier. Pictures will be coming shortly. After that, a box for dual IDQ10 V3s is on order as well and will probably get started tomorrow.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

This is the box I built from the measurements that X helped me out with. Dont beat me up to bad I had to screw it together.
Wood Cut








Coming together
































Test fit








Carpet
















Done


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Juggernaut said:


> This is the box I built from the measurements that X helped me out with. Dont beat me up to bad I had to screw it together.
> Wood Cut
> 
> 
> ...


Screws are fine if you don't have clamps. You just have to be very careful not to split the MDF. You only need to tighten enough to clamp it together. Looks like you did well there. 

I have to admit, that box looks good. Have you had a chance to listen yet? 



I got some pictures up of the recent box I've been building. This was designed specifically to fit inside a Scion tC for two IDQ12 V3s.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

havent had a chance to listen yet but I am very anxious too, I hope to finish everything up tmr night.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Smurfstein's box is now in progress. Got all the cuts made and started gluing the pieces together. This box is going to be 35" wide x 16" tall x 10.75" deep. It will fit very nicely against the back seats of the Cruze in the trunk. Might have to put the box in through the back seats as it might not fit too easily through the trunk. I verified that it would fit just fine this way though. 










Got a new method for getting perfectly aligned edges on the outer handle ridge. I use the pin nailer to hold down a couple of scrap pieces of metal parallel to the outer edge, so the side panels get glued on perfectly straight. Makes my job quite a bit easier. I <3 air tools.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Hey X, is this doable in the cruze?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Mick said:


> Hey X, is this doable in the cruze?
> 
> View attachment 5129


Yeah, if you're good with fiberglass or have a lot of money to spare. 



More progress made on Smurfstein's box. I figured there isn't much point in showing step by step photos of details, so I skipped the part where I made all of the bracing.


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## Deejmar (May 2, 2012)

i have 2 12" kickers in the trunk waiting to be installed to my stock radio do you know anything about inline output converters?


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

^ yea i think I fried my gm pac, because the majic smoke left it....


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Deejmar said:


> i have 2 12" kickers in the trunk waiting to be installed to my stock radio do you know anything about inline output converters?


What part of these are "inline?" Are you just referring to generic line out converters? Do those two 12" kickers have an amplifier?



Juggernaut said:


> ^ yea i think I fried my gm pac, because the majic smoke left it....


Could also have been a defective unit. The instructions on those are terrible. Try taking it apart and see what you fried. You may be able to just solder something back together. Otherwise, send it back and tell them it broke and they'll be able to send you another. 

I take it you didn't get a chance to listen to those subs then, lol.


More updates on Smurfstein's box:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Box is pretty much done. Just letting the baffle glue dry now. Tomorrow, I should have time to get the box carpeted, and will probably be able to get it boxed up and hopefully shipped out on Friday. At latest, I'll be able to drop it off on Saturday morning.


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## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

Cant wait to see the box in person Xtreme. I'm getting goosebumps from these pics lol.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Quick test fit in the car. This thing is a very tight fit through the trunk opening if you put it in the wide way, and I mean very tight. It will go in through the back seats more easily. It still leaves plenty of trunk room though. 


















I should be able to get it carpeted tonight.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

All done. This sub is ready to get boxed up and shipped out.


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## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

That ... looks beautiful in the trunk ... cant wait till its sitting in mine.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

That's what she said.


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## 4piecekit (Mar 17, 2011)

Yea, nice box. :blush: Anyways, where is everyone mounting their amps? I don't have a lot of slack with my RCAs into the trunk on the pax side so I am limited to where I can mount.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

4piecekit said:


> Yea, nice box. :blush: Anyways, where is everyone mounting their amps? I don't have a lot of slack with my RCAs into the trunk on the pax side so I am limited to where I can mount.


How long were your RCAs?

I'll be mounting my amps in the hole that the Cruze Ecos have. If your amps are designed to be mounted upside down, you could mount them to the rear deck. Whatever you do, just don't mount them to the sub box.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Finished another box tonight. This was for a buddy of mine, going into a Scion TC. Barely fits in there, but looks great. Another shag box! Black shag that is.  This one was built for two IDQ12 v3s.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, if a woofer is suppose to go down within 3db of 20Hz, exactly what is a subwoofer?

This is how I dealt with my 88 Supra Turbo, car came stock with four 4" speakers in tuned plastic boxes. This may sound to Bose, but not to me. Like classical music and wanted to hear a bit more than a flute or a piccolo. 

Other restrains is putting the roof in the hatch compartment, really no space for an extra box. I checked every possible comparment, everyone was loaded with some kind of electronic box.

Finally occurred to me to flip over the spare tire, made a bracket for that and install a Blaupunkt overdrive 10" woofer. Modified a stereo 40 watt amplifier, that combined the left and right channels to feed a single channel for a 20 watt output switched by a relay driven off the old fashion real on off switch in the radio. Increased the gain and added a volume control. But had to turn that way down. Based on the infinite baffle principle. 

Still have 100 honest RMS watts of total speaker power, more than enough to completely blow up your ear drums. Ha, used a 100 watt PA amplifier for our church bell towers driving four equally directed horns. Could hear those bells five miles away. Towns folks made me cut that volume way down. Could have gotten by with a twenty watt amplifier. 

View attachment 5231
View attachment 5232
View attachment 5233


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Couldn't help but notice this photo of a table saw without a guard on it. One of my son-in-laws managed to cut off two fingers, please be careful. They did stitch them back on again, but they don't work. He has to live with that.










Helping one of my sons build a multi-level deck, but not today, its raining. So far have used a radial, chop, table, jig, and reciprocating saws. Takes extra time with grandkids running around all over the place, have to unplug everything each time and tie up the line cords.

Also when done, count to see if we have all ten fingers. So far, okay.

My 1964 vintage DeWatt radial saw that I wouldn't trade for the world, was building my own home back in 1972. Heck paying over three times in interest was worth taking time off, paid it off in two years after I was done with a construction loan. It doesn't have any of that safety stuff on it, back then caught my three year old son that pushed a stool over to it and was ready to switch it on. Could have cut his leg off, ever since then, been extra careful. 

Love working with wood too.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I hear you nick. I have a great deal of respect for that table saw every time it turns on. The guard is nearly worthless. It gives me more headaches than its worth. Not too great of a saw. I am extremely careful around it and appreciate you giving me those warnings and advice. One cannot be reminded too many times. I also never use it when I'm tired.

I've been building home theater speakers out of solid wood for the past year and I got a sliding miter saw for doing that, which has a shop vac attachment. MUCH safe tool. Expensive, but safer, and I don't get sawdust in my lungs. Cuts up to 12" wide pieces.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I sent u a pm with some speakers and amp would you yell me if there worth it or not

Sent from my Droid


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I sent u a pm with some speakers and amp would you yell me if there worth it or not
> 
> Sent from my Droid


I don't have any PMs from you in my inbox...


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

This is what extreme helped with my quest to hit hard.

audiobahn stuff is usually crap. Their amps aren't cea certified, they're heavily overrated, and their subs are just flashy boom boxes. I wouldn't recommend those parts. Sure it will make noise, but it won't sound that great doing it. 



I get the impression you want something that pounds. You're going to need a pretty strong sub box for that as well or you won't get the most out of the sub(s).



Two Sundown Audio SA-10s. Total cone area will be more than that of a single 12". Figure 480 square cm for a single 12", and 310 square cm for a single 10", which gives you 620 square cm for two of them. Don't pay attention to the wattage ratings. I knew a guy who gave these guys 2x their rated power. Trust me, just like everything Sundown Audio makes, they are VERY overbuilt. These things pound so hard it hurts. 
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/store/products/Sundown-Audio-SA%2d10-Subwoofer.html


That's $370 for the subs if you run the 10s. One of these amps will do very nicely, and will bring you in at $575.


Get the Dual 4ohm versions of the subs, to wire each sub down to 2 ohm, and wire both subs to 1 ohm to give them 850W RMS each

On accident I deleted what amp he said to use so if he can reply on this he might be able to tell me haha.




Sent from my Droid


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> This is what extreme helped with my quest to hit hard.
> 
> audiobahn stuff is usually crap. Their amps aren't cea certified, they're heavily overrated, and their subs are just flashy boom boxes. I wouldn't recommend those parts. Sure it will make noise, but it won't sound that great doing it.
> 
> ...


This was the amp I had recommended.
Hifonics BRZ1700.1D Class D Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com

It's on a pretty good sale so don't pass it up. 1700W of CEA-2006 Certified clean power for $205? That won't last very long. 

You still haven't told me if you want two SA-10s or two SA-12s. I'll need to know that before I can design you a box.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

10s I've never liked 12s idk why just always had 10s
Sent from my Droid


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> 10s I've never liked 12s idk why just always had 10s
> Sent from my Droid


A good 12 will sound just as good as a 10. More cone area, louder, and assuming you have the power, will sound just as clean. You can usually dig deeper and tune lower with 12" subs due to a typically lower resonant frequency. These particular subs would sound great in either size. 

I'll design you a box for the 10s in a minute.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> A good 12 will sound just as good as a 10. More cone area, louder, and assuming you have the power, will sound just as clean. You can usually dig deeper and tune lower with 12" subs due to a typically lower resonant frequency. These particular subs would sound great in either size.
> 
> I'll design you a box for the 10s in a minute.


Thank you sir your the shiznit 

Sent from my Droid


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Thank you sir your the shiznit
> 
> Sent from my Droid


What if I told you the 12s will sound a lot better than the 10s based on what I'm simulating right now?

The 10s have a bit of a peak that I'm having a hard time getting rid of. You mind dropping another $20 to go with the 12s instead of the 10s? I'd recommend it...


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> What if I told you the 12s will sound a lot better than the 10s based on what I'm simulating right now?
> 
> The 10s have a bit of a peak that I'm having a hard time getting rid of. You mind dropping another $20 to go with the 12s instead of the 10s? I'd recommend it...


What's an extra 20 when it will sound better haha I'll do it

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't like the way the 10s model. I thought I would, but I don't. Not worth it for a mere $20 difference. Get the 12s. Seriously. You won't regret it. "Go big or go home."

Here are the numbers. Pay close attention, there isn't really much room for error. 
*Net *volume is 2.7 cubic feet. You'll need *two 4" double flared* "aero" ports, firing out one side (left or right, take your pick - same as juggernaut's box), at *25.5" in length* each for a tuning of *~29.5hz*. 

Those ports will displace .42 cubic feet, while the subs will each displace .14 cubic feet, for a total displacement of .7 cubic feet, which means you need to build the box to *3.4 cubic feet* *gross *volume. 

Your external dimensions will be *34" width x 16" height x 15" depth*. That actually gives you .12 cubic feet extra for bracing. Recess the side panels in by 3/4" to give you something to hold the box up with and to give the ports more clearance. This has been factored into the calculation. 

Mount the ports against the back of the box, one toward the top rear corner, and one toward the bottom rear corner. Make sure to account for the fact that the outer flare is bigger than the pipe itself. I believe the outer flare will be 7-1/4". If you mount this straight up against the top and rear ridges, it will leave you 2.125" of clearance between the back of the subs and the ports themselves, so it won't be too tight of a fit. 

Line all of the the inner walls with mineral wool and use 3M spray adhesive to hold it down. Spray a light mist of adhesive over all of the mineral wool once it's glued in place to keep any of it from moving around as the air moves in and out of the box through the ports. You could also use 2.5" acoustic foam, but it's more expensive and much less effective. Don't put any acoustic foam or mineral wool near the port opening. You want the ports to breathe easily. 

Here is your cut sheet not including bracing. I would very highly recommend bracing for subs of this caliber, even if they're rectangular MDF blocks that hold opposing walls together. 

3x 34x16 (back, front, and flush mount panel)
2x 34x13.5 (top, bottom)
2x 13.5x14.5 (sides)

Your cutout diameter is 11-1/8", and your total diameter (for cutting the flush mount panel holes) is 12-5/8". 
http://www.sundownaudio.com/pdfs/SA_Series_Manual(10-12-15).pdf

Here are the parts you need:
Mineral wool (shipping is like $14 IIRC, for a total of $29). This is what I use in all of my boxes. This exact same stuff. 
Scrap Mineral Wool

*OR *

Acoustic Foam (3 sheets needed)
Acoustic Foam 2-1/2" x 24" x 18" UL 94 260-515

Terminal cup (or anything similar but well built with a gasket at the back.) Don't get a spring-loaded terminal. 
Gold Banana 5-Way Recessed Speaker Terminal Round 260-311

Ports:
2x Madisound Speaker Store
2x Madisound Speaker Store
2x Madisound Speaker Store

I recommend double flared ports as they will provide superior output (typically a 3db increase), reduce turbulence and port noise, use up less internal space than a slot port would, and weigh less as well. IMO, they also look better. Circles are the most ideal port shapes. 

Set the high pass filter on your amplifier to 28hz. Set the low pass filter to 80-110hz (play around with this to see what you like more. Leave bass boost completely off. 

Here's your in-cab frequency response simulation with the acoustic foam/mineral wool and the high pass filter applied (black line). Let me know if you want me to upload charts for vent air velocity, excursion control, or group delay. 











Refer to the pictures of other boxes I've built to see how to build it if you haven't done this before. Good luck!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

In case anyone is curious to see what he's getting himself into, here's what two SA-12s can do to your car. These videos were taken by a guy I knew over on gmforum.com. 










You might want to get in touch with Don at [email protected] to order some CLD tiles for your trunk lid. Tell him I sent you.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I have no idea what all that means 

Sent from my Droid


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I have no idea what all that means
> 
> Sent from my Droid


The graph, or the dimensions and specs I gave you? Which part?


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## SkullCruzeRS (Nov 3, 2011)

Xtreme has helped me out once again this time recommending a sub and amp and building me a box. I was gonna go the route of a powered sub from crutchfield but he recommended something much better for just a little bit more in cost. Here are the sub and amp that he recommended.

Alpine SWR-823D (SWR823D) 8" Dual 2 ohm Type-R Car Subwoofer/Sub

Boston Acoustics GT-2125 (gt2125) GT Reference 2-Channel Amplifier

Now I should note I'm not looking for car rattling body shaking bass just some deep tones to compliment my Polk MM series door speakers.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

The buddy of mine that got the shag box came over to have a listen with this subs, so we mounted them and put them in my car and drove around. Words cannot describe how awesome these sounded. These IDQ12s have a much higher cone area than any other 12" sub of this class. Combined with a very low moving mass, these sounded so tight, accurate, and clean that it was jaw-dropping. Should have seen the look of amazement on my buddy's face as we listened. Couldn't turn them up too high since they still need to be broken in and the glue on the voice coil needs to go through a few heat cycles to cure, but man did they sound great. Truly chest pounding, musical, and brillant at the same time. It's been a while since I heard a V3 IDQ driver, and this reminded me that nothing out there compares to these subs in pure sound quality at their price point. 

I took some pictures of the insides so you can see how closely I cut it with the bracing. I was able to freely slide a sheet of paper underneath the sub, so none of it will be touching. That, and I checked the gap before I put the foam seal strips in, which space out the sub a bit more.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

This box is smaller than it looks. Total dimensions including the double thick baffle are 16" Width x 13" Height x 9.25" depth. 

No bracing because there's no benefit to it. Box is too small for there to be any flex in the walls, especially not from an 8" subwoofer. If I have time, I might be able to carpet it tonight.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

All done! 

I happened to have a box from an Image Dynamics IDQ12 subwoofer that this box fit perfectly inside. Just letting you know so you don't get too excited when you see an IDQ12 sitting at your doorstep, lol. 

I trimmed two edges of the terminal cup by the way. You can see where in the pictures. I did this so there would still be 9" of space between the edge of the terminal and the top of the box to mount the amp. If there isn't, you should be able to trim a bit more off yourself to make it fit. 

I also soldered on a 12 gauge wire so you'd be able to just drop the sub right in and get bumping. I'll hopefully be able to drop it off tomorrow at FedEx.


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## SkullCruzeRS (Nov 3, 2011)

Sweet! Can't wait. My order from sonicelectronix should be shipping tomorrow as well. Hopefully weather will be nice my next weekend off to get it all installed.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

So my wife decided to take some pictures while I was finishing up your box today. Figured I'd upload these too.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

SkullCruzeRS said:


> Sweet! Can't wait. My order from sonicelectronix should be shipping tomorrow as well. Hopefully weather will be nice my next weekend off to get it all installed.


I sent you a PM with the tracking number for your box. It should arrive tomorrow. Let me know if you have any questions, but it should be fairly straightforward. There's some glue residue on the sub mounting plane, but it won't affect the seal of the sub at all. If anything, it will allow it to seal even better. I would recommend pre-drilling a hole for the screws. I would drill one size smaller than the body of the screw (not including the threads). As I've told everyone, be patient with this. I've heard of a guy slip his screwdriver into a $1000 TC Sounds subwoofer surround and poke a hole just because he wasn't being careful. Don't want that to happen to you, so take your time and use a good screwdriver that isn't stripped. 

Who's next?


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## ryanwgregg (May 14, 2012)

How much would you charge to build a box for 2x Focal 8" Woofers? These woofers were actually made for Totem Acoustics (high end home theater). I have two of them and I just can't rid of them as they just sound so good for being as small as they are. The two of them can handle 400-500w easily.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

ryanwgregg said:


> How much would you charge to build a box for 2x Focal 8" Woofers? These woofers were actually made for Totem Acoustics (high end home theater). I have two of them and I just can't rid of them as they just sound so good for being as small as they are. The two of them can handle 400-500w easily.


Nice woofers. Very nice in fact. Is that woven carbon or glass fiber I see? To design a box, I'll need T/S specs or I won't be able to do anything. I might be able to work with a model number if one is listed, which it should be. I'll also need to know what car these are going into, what kinds of music they'll be primarily playing, how much space you have to work with, and what amplifier you're planning on feeding them with so I can tell you where to set your high pass/subsonic filter. I'll be able to tell you how much I'd charge once I get the box designed.


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## ryanwgregg (May 14, 2012)

They will be going into my Chevy Cruze that I will be picking up soon. I need something for fuel efficient and a Ford Lightning isn't that....

Specs can be found here: http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/21wx_spec.pdf

*What Amplified will I be using?*
I will probably be going with some like the HD600/1 or the XD500/3 so I can feed good power to a set of front components.

*What kinds of music will I be listening to?*
I primarily listen to rock, some light R&B (Drake), and acoustical sets from John Mayer, Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds.

*How do I listen to my music?*
I want something that I musical and not chest pounding. Given I have turned these up before in my Supra and they could certainly pound your chest, but I'm not looking for that.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

ryanwgregg said:


> They will be going into my Chevy Cruze that I will be picking up soon. I need something for fuel efficient and a Ford Lightning isn't that....
> 
> Specs can be found here: http://www.focal-america.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/21wx_spec.pdf
> 
> ...


Before I design you a box, can you confirm 100% that these are the same drivers? The picture in the PDF document you sent me looks absolutely nothing like the one you posted earlier. Different cone, different basket, and even the motor doesn't look the same. 

I can design the box around those T/S specs (though I can make absolutely no guarantees to how it would sound if they aren't the same sub), but at a bare minimum, I'll need measurements for the cutout, diameter, and flange thickness for the ones you have as they may be different.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I am now taking orders for MDF baffles for the Cruze. $50 shipped for the pair gets you two of these MDF baffles. Two of these require 8 separate router cuts and two chamfers. These will work with a mounting depth of up to 3".


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got one order for MDF rings that I need to build. I'll be doing the routing tonight. If anyone else wants a pair, let me know and I can get them in tonight as well. Won't have much time to do anything this weekend...


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## jnot2 (Apr 18, 2012)

PM sent


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jnot2 said:


> PM sent


Payment received.


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## SkullCruzeRS (Nov 3, 2011)

So this is the setup that Xtreme designed. The amp is a Boston Acoustics GT-2125, subwoofer Alpine SWR-843D with wires coming from Kicker kit ZCK4. I haven't decided if I like the sub on the side or in the middle. Space doesn't bother me since the girlfriend has an Equinox if I need to move large items.

The box is top-notch very impressed with quality and the sub fit perfect, it's flush and tight. The entire setup weighs 35 pounds which is a lot considering it's just an 8" sub. I got part of the wiring done tonight. The PAC adapter is hooked up and RCA/Remote wires ran. Just need to do the power wire on the next day I have off.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

****, that sub looks good in that box.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

First two orders of MDF baffles are nearly done. 

I should have these shipped out tomorrow night, or Saturday morning at the absolute latest. Still need to do another flush trim on the inside before they're ready to go.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

Finally got my box that you designed for me installed and everything working correctly. It sounds great for 2 8's and will is surprisingly low!!! Turns out I had my subs hooked up incorrectly.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Juggernaut said:


> Finally got my box that you designed for me installed and everything working correctly. It sounds great for 2 8's and will is surprisingly low!!! Turns out I had my subs hooked up incorrectly.


Yeah, I've had that happen too. One oldschool AB amp I hooked up just started getting really hot. Didn't realize it till I saw I bridged it wrong, lol. 

I designed your box to allow those subs to really dig deep. Mostly for sound quality. You need to hear the full range of music and being able to hit down to the high 30hz range linearly is how you get that done. 

Get some pictures! I'd love to see what it looks like in your trunk.


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## jnot2 (Apr 18, 2012)

Hey Extreme I am also looking for your input on a box for dual 8's in the cruze. I will be using these subs Infinity 860W (860-W) 8" Single 4 ohm Reference Series Subwoofer
and this amp Hifonics Brutus BRZ1200.1D, BRZ 1200.1D Class D Car Amplifier/Amp. Looking for SQ. Can you design me a good one like the one mentioned above. I have the tools and skills to build it myself.. Thanks


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jnot2 said:


> Hey Extreme I am also looking for your input on a box for dual 8's in the cruze. I will be using these subs Infinity 860W (860-W) 8" Single 4 ohm Reference Series Subwoofer
> and this amp Hifonics Brutus BRZ1200.1D, BRZ 1200.1D Class D Car Amplifier/Amp. Looking for SQ. Can you design me a good one like the one mentioned above. I have the tools and skills to build it myself.. Thanks


Wish I could make a box that would impress you like the other ones, but these aren't going to work well in anything but a sealed box. Vented is much too peaky for me to recommend. Sealed won't dig as deep, but it will work. 

Don't expect mind-boggling SQ out of these though. The moving mass is a bit high for an 8" sub (common for aluminum cones). 

Put them in 1.0-1.1 cubic feet sealed, and add a thick layer of acoustic foam on all of the the walls except for the baffle. The below is modeled with thick acoustic foam, absolutely zero leaks, and "cabin gain" factored in. 










I would recommend this acoustic foam:
Acoustic Foam 2-1/2" x 24" x 18" UL 94 260-515

To keep them sounding good, don't set the low pass filter too high. I'd say 75-90hz should be reasonable. This is because the transient response won't be too great with higher bass frequencies. This won't be too big of an issue if you get some good front components though. I believe you mentioned you're going to run the DA-175s up front? If so, those will more than adequately take care of the higher bass frequencies and keep these subs in their comfortable range. Leave the subsonic/high pass filter and the bass boost setting off (or to its lowest setting).

You can use this box volume calculator to determine your maximum dimensions. Don't forget to specify that you're using 0.75" MDF or the volume will be wrong. 

Speaker Enclosure Volume Calculator

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Baffles are done and are getting shipped out tomorrow morning. Had to run to the hospital tonight or they would have been dropped off by now. Father in law had back surgury...



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## jnot2 (Apr 18, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Wish I could make a box that would impress you like the other ones, but these aren't going to work well in anything but a sealed box. Vented is much too peaky for me to recommend. Sealed won't dig as deep, but it will work.
> 
> Don't expect mind-boggling SQ out of these though. The moving mass is a bit high for an 8" sub (common for aluminum cones).
> 
> ...


OK thanks. What can you do if I pick up two Alpine SWR-843D. I hear they are highly recommended. Also If they are that much better Should I go with the 4 or 2 ohm versions.. Thanks.. And hope your father in law is doing well.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jnot2 said:


> OK thanks. What can you do if I pick up two Alpine SWR-843D. I hear they are highly recommended. Also If they are that much better Should I go with the 4 or 2 ohm versions.. Thanks.. And hope your father in law is doing well.


I've recommended those quite a bit, lol. They are very nice subs. Unlike other Alpine Type-R subs, these have a much stronger motor to moving mass ratio and make excellent SQ subs.

For the $240 it would cost you though, you are much better off just getting an Image Dynamics IDQ12. 560 square cm of cone area and 18mm of xmax with one of those vs. 420 square cm of cone area and 13mm of xmax with two Alpine 8" subs. Even a single IDQ10 would be better (399 square cm of cone area, but much higher xmax). Those are true SQ subs. 160 grams moving mass for an IDQ 12. 121 grams of moving mass for those infinity subs but less than half the cone area, lol. 

The 8" Type-R is good for people who really want to save space and have an excellent SQ sub while spending $120 and needing only 350W of power. You really can't beat it in .6 cubic feet sealed. 

If you have the power (which you do) and the space (which it also seems you do), go with the IDQ12. You really won't be disappointed. 

My father in law is doing better. Still in pain despite being drugged up on every pain killer known to man, but the surgery went well. Thanks for asking. 

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## jnot2 (Apr 18, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I've recommended those quite a bit, lol. They are very nice subs. Unlike other Alpine Type-R subs, these have a much stronger motor to moving mass ratio and make excellent SQ subs.
> 
> For the $240 it would cost you though, you are much better off just getting an Image Dynamics IDQ12. 560 square cm of cone area and 18mm of xmax with one of those vs. 420 square cm of cone area and 13mm of xmax with two Alpine 8" subs. Even a single IDQ10 would be better (399 square cm of cone area, but much higher xmax). Those are true SQ subs. 160 grams moving mass for an IDQ 12. 121 grams of moving mass for those infinity subs but less than half the cone area, lol.
> 
> ...


Ok you convinced me to upgrade to a single Image Dynamics IDQ12. What are your recommendations for the box demensions. I will build it with the bracing the way you do..would like to keep trunk space without sacrificing SQ too much... Thanks again..


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jnot2 said:


> Ok you convinced me to upgrade to a single Image Dynamics IDQ12. What are your recommendations for the box demensions. I will build it with the bracing the way you do..would like to keep trunk space without sacrificing SQ too much... Thanks again..


1.15 cubic feet sealed. Double thick baffle, but you'll need a small chamfer on the flush mount since the sub is 5/8" thick and the MDF is a hair over 3/4" thick. See my pictures in this thread. 

The mounting depth is 5.8" and the cut out is 11". The total diameter is 12.46". Be careful with the brace; that magnet is wide. A circle cutting jig is *highly *recommended if you don't already have one for your router. 

You need some fill in that box; either mineral wool or acoustic foam. Mineral wool works best, but acoustic foam is available on parts-express from the same link I posted if you can't find mineral wool. If you want to spend $29 on some mineral wool, order this huge box:

Scrap Mineral Wool

It will be way too much unless you have another use for it. 

Use whichever terminal cup you want, but don't use a spring-loaded one. Solder all of your in-box connections except for the sub itself. If you're ordering carpet from parts-express, order the latex backed carpet.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Terry and James, your MDF baffle rings went out today via FedEx. I'll get tracking numbers when I get home. 

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Anyone looking for a straight up SPL sub? I have a long standing member on the w-body.com boards I've been on over the last several years that is selling one of the best SPL subs ever made. 

For Sale:: FS: American Bass Subwoofer, $100

Let me know if you're interested and I can get ahold of him for you. 

This sub would *require *a custom built box. We're talking an over 2x thick baffle; two 3/4" MDF boards and another 1/2" board on top of that. The sub would shred a prefabbed box in short order.

You'd also need at least 1500W RMS (preferably 2000W RMS) of CEA-2006 certified power.

The "American Bass" name is as respected in the SPL world as the "Image Dynamics" name is respected in the SQ world. This is no flea market sub.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Is anyone here interested in a box that would fit the "spare tire" cavity in the Eco's trunk? I'll start work on one within the next week or two. You could probably fit two 10" shallow mount subs in it.


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## Juggernaut (Apr 1, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I designed your box to allow those subs to really dig deep. Mostly for sound quality. You need to hear the full range of music and being able to hit down to the high 30hz range linearly is how you get that done.
> 
> Get some pictures! I'd love to see what it looks like in your trunk.


Here it is!!!


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## Nobody (Feb 12, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Is anyone here interested in a box that would fit the "spare tire" cavity in the Eco's trunk? I'll start work on one within the next week or two. You could probably fit two 10" shallow mount subs in it.


Is it possible for me to remove my spare and purchase the cavity from an Eco? I'd love to have two 10s mounted in the truck without sacrificing my trunk space. Gotta put my clubs somewhere, ha ha.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nobody said:


> Is it possible for me to remove my spare and purchase the cavity from an Eco? I'd love to have two 10s mounted in the truck without sacrificing my trunk space. Gotta put my clubs somewhere, ha ha.


Yes, it is possible. You can buy the large trunk liner like the Eco Cruzes have from gmpartsdirect.com.

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## Nobody (Feb 12, 2012)

Do they need to be shallow mount subs? Do you have any recommendations on Sub and Amp combinations?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nobody said:


> Do they need to be shallow mount subs? Do you have any recommendations on Sub and Amp combinations?


Last time I calculated it, for a full MDF enclosure (I'm not touching fiberglass yet), you'll have about 4" of mounting depth. That narrows down your choices pretty significantly. You'd also have a total of maybe .7 cubic feet, which also narrows your choices a bit.

I'd say either two of these 10" subs for $125 each
Tang Band WT-1427G 10" Neo Subwoofer 264-862

Or two of these 8" subs for $100 each
Dayton NS210-44 8" Neodymium Low-Profile DVC Subwoofer 295-132

As for amplifiers, you really can't beat this deal:
Boston Acoustics GT-2125 (gt2125) GT Reference 2-Channel Amplifier

I believe it used to be $120 or $130, but it's still a great deal for the amount of power you have and the fact that it can be mounted anywhere and in any physical orientation due to its cooling design.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

In case anyone wanted to see these, I got a set made for someone; front and rear for the Cruze. Keep in mind, these are all made custom to order. The speaker mounting layer diameter and cutout will be made according to the spec needed for the speakers being used.

Zippy, these are getting shipped out as soon as I can make a trip out to FedEx.


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## zippy (May 16, 2012)

wow, Those look great. Thanks!! All I need is sound dead....everything else is on the way, or here. Speakers are top notch btw, 1000 times better than the polk DB's I had in my G8.


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## SkullCruzeRS (Nov 3, 2011)

Finally got the sub hooked up. The thing sounds amazing to say the least. Still need to do some fine tuning but it sounds way deeper then what I expected from a mere 8" sub. Thanks for the recommendations and solid box!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

SkullCruzeRS said:


> Finally got the sub hooked up. The thing sounds amazing to say the least. Still need to do some fine tuning but it sounds way deeper then what I expected from a mere 8" sub. Thanks for the recommendations and solid box!


Haha, I knew you'd like it. That little Alpine 8" is one of my favorite subwoofers. It never ceases to put a smile on my face and that of anyone who hears it. Glad you're happy with the setup.


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## leeclark (Mar 25, 2012)

i would like for you to design a custom box. I have the two thunder 8000s. They are going in my cruze. The amp is sony xm-2165gtx. I know sony is cheap but I didn't pay a dime for it. Also i was actually looking into buying another amp anyways, just wasn't in a hurry to do so since i already have this one.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

leeclark said:


> i would like for you to design a custom box. I have the two thunder 8000s. They are going in my cruze. The amp is sony xm-2165gtx. I know sony is cheap but I didn't pay a dime for it. Also i was actually looking into buying another amp anyways, just wasn't in a hurry to do so since i already have this one.


What impedance voice coils are on those Thunder 8000s? Dual 2 ohm or dual 4 ohm?

An overrated 200W RMS x 2 will clip those subs into oblivion in short order. I wouldn't even try to run these subs until you have a good amp for them.

I would be glad to design you a box though. Are you looking more for SPL or sound quality? Do you have any space requirements? What types of music do you primarily listen to?


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## leeclark (Mar 25, 2012)

they are 4 ohm. I'm looking more for sound quality. I only need a little room in the trunk for groceries lol. I usually listen to all types of rock, and my wife likes rock and some r&b. What would you suggest as far as amps go? The set up I have now I have had laying around and will probably get a different set up for the cruze but will stay with 10" in it. the subs i have now will eventually be moved over to my blazer which will be a while. Got a v8 swap and solid axle swap I'm going to be doing to it, just got some more parts to get.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

leeclark said:


> they are 4 ohm. I'm looking more for sound quality. I only need a little room in the trunk for groceries lol. I usually listen to all types of rock, and my wife likes rock and some r&b. What would you suggest as far as amps go? The set up I have now I have had laying around and will probably get a different set up for the cruze but will stay with 10" in it. the subs i have now will eventually be moved over to my blazer which will be a while. Got a v8 swap and solid axle swap I'm going to be doing to it, just got some more parts to get.


These are actually some of the better MTX subs I've modeled. 

Put them in 2.4-2.5 cubic feet sealed. For a box this size, a double thick baffle with a flush mount and some bracing are very highly recommended. You will need to line the back and side walls with thick mineral wool or acoustic foam (whichever you have available to you).










I'd run one of these amps with those subs:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27728_Massive-Audio-N2.html


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## leeclark (Mar 25, 2012)

that amp is small lol. Think i'm gonna try and order that amp next week. Thanks for the input.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

it did get your attention though and that was the intent.
at least you are not confused and you have made a choice of direction
stay with this . not ment to be personal.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

leeclark said:


> that amp is small lol. Think i'm gonna try and order that amp next week. Thanks for the input.


Yeah, they are a bit small. The high efficiency allows them to need less cooling surface area. They bench test what they are rated for though, and are solid amps.



brian v said:


> it did get your attention though and that was the intent.
> at least you are not confused and you have made a choice of direction
> stay with this . not ment to be personal.


What in the world are you talking about?

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

brian v said:


> I do not answer to you. therefore your ? is irrelavant.
> Also where is your vendors tag....................thought you had to be always right .....who gives a **** about you calling gm for some specs by the way how many spark plugs do you have 4 rant rant rant who cares just drove 756 miles to philly to be with family what have you done for your family I could go on and I choose not too. figure out what the consumer will buy / sustanable growth / you do have a good mind use it for good


Who do you think you are coming in here insulting me? You created your own thread JUST to insult me (which got locked, take the hint), and now you've posted in this thread as a troll with absolutely nothing to contribute, nothing to ask from me, just to irritate me, annoy me, and hurl personal insults at me?

What have I done for my family? I've given up the last 2 years of my life and put it on hold for my father in law who had a lung removed due to lung cancer, went through 3 rounds of chemo due and two back surgeries also due to cancer, and had a partial hip replacement. Instead of working on my own car's sound system, guess what I did this spring? I maintained the 1.5 acre yard, I helped maintain the house, I repaired their cars, I chopped down at least 10 large trees and split them for firewood next winter (don't ask me how many blisters), I visited him in the hospital every day he was in there, and I did whatever else he normally did but no longer can for a family I only really became part of 2 years ago. You have some nerve coming in here and attacking my own family values. Who the **** do you think you are?

You drove 756 miles to go see your family? Big deal. I drive 2,200 miles each way to visit my own family out in California at least twice a year and I wish I had the vacation time and money to do it more often, but I don't. 

My business on this forum is none of your business. I do this on the side to help people. I charge $200 instead of $400-$600 for hand-made custom subwoofer boxes and I design them for free. Hourly, I make less than HALF of what I do at my real job doing this. I do it so I could pay off some student loans while giving people the ability to have a great sounding sub box for an affordable price, while working 40-50 hours a week at my job.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

impressive look to your future your life is yours to share . my intent is to get you to stop being 
bitter tough choices you should thick skinned by now. critisisum by a total stranger


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

brian v said:


> impressive look to your future your life is yours to share . my intent is to get you to stop being
> bitter tough choices you should thick skinned by now. critisisum by a total stranger


Allow me to remind you what thread you're in. If you have something personal to say, you are more than welcome to say it via private message tactfully and respectfully; not by creating a new thread just to insult my expertise in car audio and demonstrate your lack of it (again, it was locked for a reason), and not by trolling my stickied subwoofer box thread with personal insults and attacks.

I don't care what your intentions were. You should have chosen your words more carefully. You insulted my character and expertise, you ridiculed my efforts, and you had the audacity to question my family values. Perhaps you should re-think your criticism methods.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

The time has come. This box will be sold to one lucky fellow, as I won't be using this. I figure there's a big demand for stealth boxes, so here it is. Any takers?

Eco trunk hole cover. Niiice. 









No trunk cover. Not so nice...









Looks better stapled to an MDF board









I can haz flush trim bit? Routing needed to be done outside...waaaaay too much dust created.

























Baffle is done. Two shallow mount, flush mounted 10" subwoofers will look very nice here.


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## Nobody (Feb 12, 2012)

I like where this is going. Who need a spare tire anyway?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nobody said:


> I like where this is going. Who need a spare tire anyway?


Well, this actually fits perfectly in the opening for the Cruze Eco. The Eco (at least the MT) doesn't have a spare tire to begin with, just the hole that you see pictured above. I ordered the cover specifically to use as a template for making the baffle.


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## musgofasa (Jun 3, 2012)

HI Everyone,

I wanted to chime in here in case I can be of assistance. It looks like X and I have a lot in common in the way we do boxes, designs etc. I am in Greenville/Spartanburg SC area and have a full woodworking shop so if I can be of any assistance completing an install or helping with a box let me know. I don't want to take any business away from X but I love the work and if I can help with anything let me know. I specialize in custom work so if anyone is following up with one of X's boxes and needs help making it look professional let me know. So long as X approves I will be more than happy to help. Here's a pic of a recent install I did in a 56 Chevy belair


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nice work musgofasa!

Anyone else need any MDF baffles rings made for speaker mounting? I'll be making another batch this week and can get another order or two in to be shipped by Saturday morning. Shoot me a PM if interested.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

ryanwgregg said:


> How much would you charge to build a box for 2x Focal 8" Woofers? These woofers were actually made for Totem Acoustics (high end home theater). I have two of them and I just can't rid of them as they just sound so good for being as small as they are. The two of them can handle 400-500w easily.





ryanwgregg said:


> They will be going into my Chevy Cruze that I will be picking up soon. I need something for fuel efficient and a Ford Lightning isn't that....
> 
> *What Amplified will I be using?*
> I will probably be going with some like the HD600/1 or the XD500/3 so I can feed good power to a set of front components.
> ...


^ Ryan sent me a couple of the aforementioned subwoofers for testing since both Focal and Totem refused to give out the T/S specs. Not sure why since they can be measured anyway, but I digress. Let's just say he got pretty lucky buying these. I figured I'd post some pictures for some of you. This is a very special Focal subwoofer. Unlike most which are made with their signature polyglass cones, this was made with a woven fiber cone, but also with their multiferrite motor. Quite a pretty little driver. Almost a shame to hide it in a box.


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## ryanwgregg (May 14, 2012)

Thanks again Andrei for getting those looked at! Andrei will be doing the build of sub box. We are going to go with a ported design as the subwoofers were originally home theater subs and designed to be in that type of enclosure. Can't wait to see what we come up with!


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## musgofasa (Jun 3, 2012)

I love those focal drivers. Just begging to be put in a plexiglass box or mounted magnet out! I thought those were automotive subs though? 

I just looked and see the ones listed as automotive are the Utopia BE and the KX series with the yellow cone. Interesting. Can't wait to see how they turn out either. Long time fan of Focal here.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

musgofasa said:


> I love those focal drivers. Just begging to be put in a plexiglass box or mounted magnet out! I thought those were automotive subs though?
> 
> I just looked and see the ones listed as automotive are the Utopia BE and the KX series with the yellow cone. Interesting. Can't wait to see how they turn out either. Long time fan of Focal here.


Yeah, those are special. Made for Totem (a loudspeaker company based in Canada) by Focal for home theater use. No other Focal subwoofer I know of has a woven fiber cone. Safe to say, these were custom made to order by Totem and are pretty rare. Ryan here has two, and now he has the T/S specs for them, which I won't disclose yet but I will say they are impressive. Low Fs for an 8" (sub-30), low Qts (~.30), and low Mms (under 50 grams). That combination creates one impressive SQ driver with a rather high efficiency.

I'd say this is very similar to an 8" Morel Ultimo.


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## musgofasa (Jun 3, 2012)

Nice!


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## ryanwgregg (May 14, 2012)

Not to mention....I have another BRAND NEW set sitting in the box here at home. Never been touched!!!


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## musgofasa (Jun 3, 2012)

If I had any money I would be very tempted to try bidding and see what it would take to buy those from you.


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## myselfalex (Jun 13, 2012)

Hey XtremeRevolution, I wanted to ask your opinion on my old sub and amp to see if either are worth keeping or not, and you seem to know your stuff (by seem I mean my brain hurt after going through this and your SQ thread). My sub is a Rockford Fosgate P210S4, and the amp is a Rockford Fosgate - Punch 201S , I've been using these things for about 7 years now so they are aged a bit, but up until my last car died, they were working just fine in it (to the best of my knowledge at least). I'm no expert in the science behind all of the audio stuff you put forth, but I assumed, at the time of my install of these, I at least picked the right match of sub and amp in regards to power vs capability of the items.

The box I've been using is a generic old square one, it is solid and sealed, but gigantic for even the Cruze trunk. So I might be looking at getting a custom smaller one from you, but have to look into if I need a new sub and/or amp if you don't mind, please?  These seemed like the proper thread to ask, but if not I apologize.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

In all honesty, I wouldn't feel right charging you for a box for that sub and amp. Not trying to be a snob, but they are on the budget end of things for subwoofers. That amp would do very nicely for a set of front speakers, but for a more powerful sub, it's not going to have enough power. They're a good match, but it won't really matter what kind of box you put that sub in as it's not really designed for sound quality anyway. It's a low power, general purpose budget subwoofer. 

If you want to upgrade, save your money and have a box built for a higher quality sub. Let me know if you'd like to do that and I can give you some recommendations based on a target budget.


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## myselfalex (Jun 13, 2012)

LOL, totally understand that, I was on a budget then more than I am now, they were great for the budget, and have lasted all this time without any problems.

So I guess I'll ask for recommendations for good single 8"-10" SQ sub/amp combo. Looking for clean and quality, no need to set off alarms in my neighborhood (or alert the thugs to my setup lol), but don't really want to blow the bank if possible. I don't really have a set budget, as I wanted to look into your expertise before even thinking about new items, so I'm not set on anything yet. Mostly just to enhance my systems quality, because I do plan to upgrade the main speakers as well eventually.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

myselfalex said:


> LOL, totally understand that, I was on a budget then more than I am now, they were great for the budget, and have lasted all this time without any problems.
> 
> So I guess I'll ask for recommendations for good single 8"-10" SQ sub/amp combo. Looking for clean and quality, no need to set off alarms in my neighborhood (or alert the thugs to my setup lol), but don't really want to blow the bank if possible. I don't really have a set budget, as I wanted to look into your expertise before even thinking about new items, so I'm not set on anything yet. Mostly just to enhance my systems quality, because I do plan to upgrade the main speakers as well eventually.


For an 8" SQ sub, you can't do better than the Alpine 8" Type-R sub in a sealed box. It digs deep, has excellent transient response, and sounds very clean. The price is currently pretty good too! Whether you get the Dual 2 ohm or Dual 4 ohm version will depend on what amplifier you choose. Either way, you'll need a good ~300W of clean power. 








http://www.amazon.com/Alpine-SWR-843D-Type-R-Subwoofer-4-Ohm/dp/B004X0V2Z0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340661882&sr=8-1&keywords=SWR-843D

I would recommend this amplifier for the 8" Type-R:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17785_Boston-Acoustics-GT-2125.html


For a 10" SQ sub on a higher budget, I'd always point you to the Image Dynamics IDQ10. It has more cone area than any 10" I know of in this price point, and is a very, very clean sounding sub. 
Image Dynamics IDQ10 V.3 D4 (IDQ10-V3D4) 10" Dual 4 ohm IDQ V.3 Sub

The 12" version is only $40 more and has 40% more cone area. 
Image Dynamics IDQ12 V.3 D4 (IDQ12-V3D4) 12" Dual 4 ohm IDQ V.3 Sub


For amplifiers, you'll need a clean 500W for the 10" and 750W for the 12". 

This particular amp is excellent and will definitely fit the bill for either of those IDQ drivers, and has been on sale recently. It's one heck of a good deal for that much clean power. If all you could afford for the time being was an amplifier, I'd recommend you buy this before the price goes back up. It will work excellently with the Dual 4 ohm version of either of those subs, and will have enough headroom to allow you to add a second sub in the future should you want more output. 
Hifonics BRZ1200.1D Class D Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com

I'd charge you $125 for a box for the Alpine 8", and $175 for a box for either of the IDQ drivers. That price doesn't include shipping.


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## myselfalex (Jun 13, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> For an 8" SQ sub, you can't do better than the Alpine 8" Type-R sub in a sealed box. It digs deep, has excellent transient response, and sounds very clean. The price is currently pretty good too! Whether you get the Dual 2 ohm or Dual 4 ohm version will depend on what amplifier you choose. Either way, you'll need a good ~300W of clean power.


Ok, some good things to look into there, one little question I have that I have zero idea about is, what is the difference between the 2 ohm and 4 ohm types?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

myselfalex said:


> Ok, some good things to look into there, one little question I have that I have zero idea about is, what is the difference between the 2 ohm and 4 ohm types?


In this case, don't worry about it. I'll match up the sub and amp for you. Basically, amps are rated for a certain power (watts) at a certain impedance (ohms). You choose the amp that has the power at the impedance you can run. A dual voice coil sub can be wied in two ways, parallel or series.

A Dual 4 ohm sub can be wired to 2 ohm or 8 ohm, and a Dual 2 ohm sub can be wired to 1 ohm or 4 ohm. 

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## joewatson86 (Jul 6, 2011)

myselfalex said:


> Ok, some good things to look into there, one little question I have that I have zero idea about is, what is the difference between the 2 ohm and 4 ohm types?


As Xtreme will probably tell you too, more power (Boom) can be had the lower the impedence (Ohms) however, kickdrums and some faster beats will sound muddled the lower it is. I found when listening to Mudvayne "Not Falling", the super fast kicks with my 2-12" RF P2's in a 4.00cu/ft ported Bassworx (oh highschool lol), it sounded like one giant rumble at 2 ohms. I changed the wiring to 4 ohms in parrallel and I actually got some seperate thumping (if you can believe it!). That's quite the difference and that is why the SPL guys have the impedence of there systems down to 1.5 or 1 ohm, it gives you the most power output of your amp and the driver. But if you want to hear that kickdrum, 4 ohms will give you more clarity (Usually) than a 2 ohm setup. At least with my experience.


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## joewatson86 (Jul 6, 2011)

Hey Xtreme, I feel you are probably the best person to ask this on here so this is my dilema.
I miss my bass and I've just discovered dubstep! However, I have a baby on the way so trunk space is a must! I'm wondering wether or not to add a 2-channel amp and 6x9's to the factory rear deck locations (auto, LT, Spare tire present) or get this:
CP108LG-W3v3 - Car Audio - Subwoofer Systems - FlatWedge with an amp of course.

I have also toyed with the idea of getting 2x 6.5" JL 3v3 and mounting them in the rear deck locations but I think a box would then be out of the question. What are your thoughts?
The specs for both the 8" and 6.5" arre on the subwoofer driver section under parameters in the specs tab. Based on your previous recomendations, these look to be pretty good little drivers.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

joewatson86 said:


> As Xtreme will probably tell you too, more power (Boom) can be had the lower the impedence (Ohms) however, kickdrums and some faster beats will sound muddled the lower it is. I found when listening to Mudvayne "Not Falling", the super fast kicks with my 2-12" RF P2's in a 4.00cu/ft ported Bassworx (oh highschool lol), it sounded like one giant rumble at 2 ohms. I changed the wiring to 4 ohms in parrallel and I actually got some seperate thumping (if you can believe it!). That's quite the difference and that is why the SPL guys have the impedence of there systems down to 1.5 or 1 ohm, it gives you the most power output of your amp and the driver. But if you want to hear that kickdrum, 4 ohms will give you more clarity (Usually) than a 2 ohm setup. At least with my experience.


Impedance has nothing to do with how fast, tight, or clear the sound is. Anything you heard was probably a result of you giving that subwoofer less power and allowing the rest of the system to blend better so you can actually hear the kick drums in the rest of the speakers over the bass. You basically halved your available power by going from 2 ohms to 4 ohms, although I'm not sure how you did that with two subs... You can reproduce the sound of a kick drum that will feel like getting hit by a freight train with a 1 ohm load and enough low MMS drivers. 

Bandpass boxes are generally designed to be very loud and boomy anyway. Not really designed for sound quality in mind. 



joewatson86 said:


> Hey Xtreme, I feel you are probably the best person to ask this on here so this is my dilema.
> I miss my bass and I've just discovered dubstep! However, I have a baby on the way so trunk space is a must! I'm wondering wether or not to add a 2-channel amp and 6x9's to the factory rear deck locations (auto, LT, Spare tire present) or get this:
> CP108LG-W3v3 - Car Audio - Subwoofer Systems - FlatWedge with an amp of course.
> 
> ...


My honest opinion? Similar to many JL Audio products, it's overpriced and underperformed. That's the primary reason I don't recommend them. When it comes to their W6, the IDQ10 and IDQ12 simply get louder and sound much better doing it. When it comes to the W7, the IDMax sounds much better, and you'll find that anyone who has heard both will say the same thing. 
When it comes to the budget end subs, they're overpriced. The Alpine 8" Type-R subwoofer has sold on bestbuy recently for $100 shipped in a ported box, and I can guarantee you it will dig much deeper, handle more power, sound much better, and get much louder than that 8" JL sub. 

Alpine - 8" Dual-Voice-Coil 4-Ohm Subwoofer with Enclosure - SBR-S83V

It's not on sale now, but it has gone down to $100 shipped two times in the recent past. You can get the sub alone for ~$100 on amazon.com in the link I posted earlier, and I'd be more than happy to build you a sealed box for it for a total of less than that JL Audio sub. 

I wouldn't bother running free-air subs. The bass won't be anywhere near as deep as you won't be able to seal off the rear deck and back seat pass-through well enough to separate the rear waves from the front. With a Qts of ~0.5 on the 6W3v3, it's really not intended to be used as a free-air driver anyway. Again, it's overpriced and underperformed. If you wanted a truly incredible 6.5" sub, you'd grab one of these:

Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer 264-832

Don't underestimate the incredible power of neodymium motors. 



Now, my opinions of your options aside, your options will really depend on your budget. It seems like you're really just looking for something small, but think about it again. You're looking at the JL box because it's probably shallow and takes up less space than a large box, but ask yourself this: how much space are you actually saving? You have well into 18" of total available height against the back seats of your Cruze, yet the sub box is only using 11". What else are you going to put on top of the box? See what I mean? Wasted space there, that you could fill with a taller box, getting more output and sound quality. 

Let me know what your budget is, and I can make some recommendations based on a given space constraint for what would work best in your car and listening preferences.


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## amalmer71 (Apr 5, 2012)

I don't know why, but hot-linking to Best Buy doesn't work well on this site. You'll have to copy and paste the link into your address bar.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Alpine+-+8%22+Dual-Voice-Coil+4-Ohm+Subwoofer+with+Enclosure/3527085.p?id=1218410271717&skuId=3527085

Sonic Electronix has that same sub/enclosure for $180 shipped.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_40430_Alpine-SBR-S83V.html


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## dthomp2366 (Feb 21, 2012)

Hey Xtreme,

I want to add 6.5s to the rear deck and build a box for a pioneer TS-W1008D4. What amp would you recommend for the sub? I mainly listen to rap and rock but I don't want a "one note wonder" sub box. I want decent SQ but as low Hz as safe for the sub. Any ideas?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dthomp2366 said:


> Hey Xtreme,
> 
> I want to add 6.5s to the rear deck and build a box for a pioneer TS-W1008D4. What amp would you recommend for the sub? I mainly listen to rap and rock but I don't want a "one note wonder" sub box. I want decent SQ but as low Hz as safe for the sub. Any ideas?


Pass on the 6.5s in the rear deck. There's no point to it. Have you already bought that sub?

If so, the Boston Acoustics amp I've been listing for people is my recommendation. Will you be building this box?


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## dthomp2366 (Feb 21, 2012)

I've had the sub in the closest for a year now. Any brand amp kit over another? I would take a stab at it but I'm not above you building it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dthomp2366 said:


> I've had the sub in the closest for a year now. Any brand amp kit over another? I would take a stab at it but I'm not above you building it.


I would love to teach you how to do it, but you'd need to have the tools. That's the biggest thing that stops people. If you have access to some tools, even a dremel with a circle cutting guide, then I can walk you through the whole process. Believe me when I say that I'd much rather teach you how to build a box than build it for you. There's just something more satisfying about teaching someone how to do something like this, and it would be very satisfying for you to do it. That said, if you don't have the tools, I can also do it too. 

I don't want to be rude, but I'm not quite sure that spending $175 plus shipping for a box designed for a $75 inch sub is a particularly great value. Amp kit? Go to Amp Installation Kits, HDMI Cables. They have solid amp kits with very good quality components. I'd recommend them over anything else you can find.


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## dthomp2366 (Feb 21, 2012)

I've built boxes from a few friends but i never carpeted them but they performed. I can follow directions pretty good so if you could draw it up I could definitely build it. I've been waiting to break out the table saw and dust off the jig and circular saws. 

I'm not married to the sub but I heard one in a friend's car and it was more impressive than my setup at the time. Recommendations? I have a budget of 500 for sub and amp. I can hear the smallest distortion and prefer the better sounding sub over shaking my car to **** anyday. LOL


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dthomp2366 said:


> I've built boxes from a few friends but i never carpeted them but they performed. I can follow directions pretty good so if you could draw it up I could definitely build it. I've been waiting to break out the table saw and dust off the jig and circular saws.
> 
> I'm not married to the sub but I heard one in a friend's car and it was more impressive than my setup at the time. Recommendations? I have a budget of 500 for sub and amp. I can hear the smallest distortion and prefer the better sounding sub over shaking my car to **** anyday. LOL


With patience, you can get good results on a jig saw. You do need to be able to draw a very good circle though. I'll get you a cut sheet. Your biggest challenge will be bracing. Do you have a lot of clamps? You'll need them. 

For that budget, I'd recommend you a single IDQ12 D4 off of sonicelectronix.com, and that hifonics brutus 1200w amp that's on clearance on onlinecarstereo.com. 

If you wanted me to build you the box, it would be $175 plus shipping. It would include bracing, a double thick baffle, precision routing, carpeting, and mineral wool on the walls. 

If you do it yourself, I can get you a parts list of what you'll need.

Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Actually, the IDMax is on sale now! This was just brought to my attention. Use code IDMAX25 for 25% off of the current pricing on the subs. I'd recommend a single IDMax12:

Image Dynamics IDMAX12 V.3 D2 (idmax12v3d2) 12" ID MAX V.3 Sub

And this amplifier:
Hifonics BRZ1700.1D Class D Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Hey XR, WRT subwoofer design, what have you figured for a general transfer function for the Cruze? Without having measured anything I generally figure on 70-80Hz and ~8 db/oct... just wondering if you've measured free-air and in-car for one of your sub creations to put a more concrete number on it?

Also, have you played around with different locations for the enclosure and driver positioning? I'm considering an enclosure in my ECO's floor well, but I'm not sure what to expect having drivers in the middle of the trunk facing up as I've never done that before. I know the wavelengths involved suggest to some that location doesn't matter, but I've seen some wierd things with sub location in my time, most of which I can't seem to find documented and/or logical explanations for...

Nice work so far on the custom enclosures!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Hey XR, WRT subwoofer design, what have you figured for a general transfer function for the Cruze? Without having measured anything I generally figure on 70-80Hz and ~8 db/oct... just wondering if you've measured free-air and in-car for one of your sub creations to put a more concrete number on it?
> 
> Also, have you played around with different locations for the enclosure and driver positioning? I'm considering an enclosure in my ECO's floor well, but I'm not sure what to expect having drivers in the middle of the trunk facing up as I've never done that before. I know the wavelengths involved suggest to some that location doesn't matter, but I've seen some wierd things with sub location in my time, most of which I can't seem to find documented and/or logical explanations for...
> 
> Nice work so far on the custom enclosures!


Here's what I have simulated for boundary loading/cabin pressurization gain for the Cruze:









Of course, this is a rough estimate. It's impossible to actually know without measuring it yourself, but the simulation gives me a good idea what it will sound like. The software I use allows me to apply that simulation to the raw frequency response of the subwoofer. 

I've played around with locations and driver positioning to an extent. It will all sound different. However, I believe that what you're considering should work well as there will be significant amounts of boundary loading. 

I was working on building an MDF enclosure for the Cruze Eco floor and even routed out the baffle to fit perfectly in that shape, but I didn't have anyone here actually interested in one so I didn't think it was worth it to take the time to build the enclosure and buy the appropriate subs to mount. There are quite few subs that will work well in that airspace and be affordable. I've come across only two so far.


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## djhamp (Jun 29, 2012)

Very cool thread, I have learned a lot going through it. We have had our 2012 Cruze LS a month now and this thread has inspired me to upgrade the sound system. Never really done this sort of thing before. I bought all this at a Best Buy open box site (300 for everything). I would like to build my own box (I have done woodworking for many years - mostly cabinet type work and have a good assortment of tools (never enough clamps however!) Looking for good sound quality not loudness and as small as possible - listen to rock/pop type music
*Polk Audio DXI6500 6.5in Component
Alpine MRX Series 710W Class D Digital Multichannel Amplifier
Polk Audio DXI124 SVC 12in Single-Voice-Coil 720-Watts 4-Ohm
Thiele / Small Parameters 
Resonant Frequency 30Hz
Xmax Linear .622
SD 80.6 square inches
VAS 2.54 cubic feef
QTS .44
QES .46
QMS 10.4




*


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

djhamp said:


> Very cool thread, I have learned a lot going through it. We have had our 2012 Cruze LS a month now and this thread has inspired me to upgrade the sound system. Never really done this sort of thing before. I bought all this at a Best Buy open box site (300 for everything). I would like to build my own box (I have done woodworking for many years - mostly cabinet type work and have a good assortment of tools (never enough clamps however!) Looking for good sound quality not loudness and as small as possible - listen to rock/pop type music
> *Polk Audio DXI6500 6.5in Component
> Alpine MRX Series 710W Class D Digital Multichannel Amplifier
> Polk Audio DXI124 SVC 12in Single-Voice-Coil 720-Watts 4-Ohm
> ...


Generally, when you want something that uses as little space as possible, you don't build the box around the sub; you choose a sub that works well in small boxes, and then design a small of a box as you can. 

For example, to make this particular subwoofer sound decent, you're looking at no smaller than 2 cubic feet *net* (probably 2.15 cubic feet gross; I don't know the exact displacement) with thick acoustic pad (mineral wool, acoustic foam, fiberglass rigid board (owens corning 705), Roxul Rockboard 60, etc.) on all of the walls except the baffle. It's on the large side of a sealed box for a 12" sub, but it seems to be one built to be abused given the rather high Qms, and that's hurting your goal for a small box. 

Exact dimensions won't be important as long as that internal volume is used. Let me know if you have any questions or need to see the frequency response plot.


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## djhamp (Jun 29, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Generally, when you want something that uses as little space as possible, you don't build the box around the sub; you choose a sub that works well in small boxes, and then design a small of a box as you can.
> 
> For example, to make this particular subwoofer sound decent, you're looking at no smaller than 2 cubic feet *net* (probably 2.15 cubic feet gross; I don't know the exact displacement) with thick acoustic pad (mineral wool, acoustic foam, fiberglass rigid board (owens corning 705), Roxul Rockboard 60, etc.) on all of the walls except the baffle. It's on the large side of a sealed box for a 12" sub, but it seems to be one built to be abused given the rather high Qms, and that's hurting your goal for a small box.
> 
> Exact dimensions won't be important as long as that internal volume is used. Let me know if you have any questions or need to see the frequency response plot.



Gotcha - thanks, I was going by Polks specs:
Specifications
Woofer Size: 12"
Woofer Material: Polymer composite
Magnet Size: 5-1/2"
Magnet Type: Ferrite
Continuous Power Handling: 360W
Peak Power handling: 720W
Impedance: 4 ohms
Connection Type: Nickel-plated fast-ons
Number of Voice Coils: 1
Efficiency: 88dB
Frame Material: Stamped steel
Surround Material: Rubber
Recommended Installation Type: Sealed box
Recommended Cubic Feet (box): 0.88 cu. ft.

But I did read somewhere that they undersize that for some reason.

I only paid $30 for it, is there another option under $100 that would work with that amp that you know of? Or would I be better off going with a 8" or 10"? I can the same Polk model in the smaller sizes cheap also.
Again, I am looking for something musical - not trying to be heard blocks away. Thanks for your time btw!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

djhamp said:


> Gotcha - thanks, I was going by Polks specs:
> Specifications
> Woofer Size: 12"
> Woofer Material: Polymer composite
> ...


They undersize the specs to make them usable for the majority of people who just want loud, boomy subs that take up as little space as possible. Want amp do you have?

Want something musical? Stick one of these in .55 cubic feet with acoustic pad on the walls:







Amazon.com: Alpine SWR-843D Type-R 8" Subwoofer with Dual 4-Ohm Voice Coils: Car Electronics

or








http://www.amazon.com/SWR-823D-Alpine-Type-R-2-Ohm-Subwoofer/dp/B0056VZ6YI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1344299460&sr=1-1&keywords=swr-823d

Which one you use will depend on your amp. How much power can it provide and at what impedance?


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## djhamp (Jun 29, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> They undersize the specs to make them usable for the majority of people who just want loud, boomy subs that take up as little space as possible. Want amp do you have?
> 
> Want something musical? Stick one of these in .55 cubic feet with acoustic pad on the walls:
> 
> ...


*Alpine MRX Series 710W Class D Digital Multichannel Amplifier*

Continuous Watts per Channel (4 Ohms) RMS: 90 x 4 350 x 1
Continuous Watts per Channel (2 Ohms) RMS: 90 x 4 350 x 1
Continuous Watts Bridged: 150
Max Power Watts per Channel (4 Ohms Bridged): 150
Number of Channels: 5


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

djhamp said:


> *Alpine MRX Series 710W Class D Digital Multichannel Amplifier*
> 
> Continuous Watts per Channel (4 Ohms) RMS: 90 x 4 350 x 1
> Continuous Watts per Channel (2 Ohms) RMS: 90 x 4 350 x 1
> ...


Classic Best buy misrepresenting specs again, lol. I looked it up. Here are the correct specs:

4 CH @ 4 ohms: 60W RMS
Sub @ 4 ohms: 250W RMS

4 CH @ 2 ohms: 90W RMS
Sub @ 2 ohms: 350W RMS

Grab the Dual 4 ohm version and wire it to 2 ohms.


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## djhamp (Jun 29, 2012)

Grab the Dual 4 ohm version and wire it to 2 ohms.[/QUOTE]

Sounds good, I will do that. Will that play well with the *Polk Audio DXI6500 6.5in Component *speakers in the front doors running off that amp also?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

djhamp said:


> Grab the Dual 4 ohm version and wire it to 2 ohms.


Sounds good, I will do that. Will that play well with the *Polk Audio DXI6500 6.5in Component *speakers in the front doors running off that amp also?[/QUOTE]

Those should work well together.

Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## djhamp (Jun 29, 2012)

What do you think of this sub-wooofer: Sundown SA-8 D2 8" ?
Amazon.com: SA-8 D2 - Sundown Audio 8" Dual 2-Ohm SA Series Subwoofer: Car Electronics

Little more that I wanted to spend but not that much more and it seems to get good reviews.
If I do, what box would you recomend? All I have seen are ported box's, arent those for more SPL? I dont need them overwhelming - just good sound

Thanks!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

djhamp said:


> What do you think of this sub-wooofer: Sundown SA-8 D2 8" ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


100% SPL subwoofer. It will have a massive peak in the tuning frequency that will make it sound very boomy. Loud no doubt, perhaps louder than any other 8" subwoofer on the market, but it will be peaky. It is a purpose-built SPL subs. Popular applications are underneath rear benches in trucks, and other tight spaces where the width of a larger sub prohibits its use. This is not an SQ sub by any measure. 

If you want something in that price range of the SQ variety, here are a few more options to get one of:
Tang Band W8-1363SB 8" Subwoofer 264-833
Tang Band W8-1363SBF 8" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker 264-920
Vifa NE225W-08 8" Subwoofer Speaker 264-1138
TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer 293-656
Peerless 830500 12" XLS Subwoofer 264-1116

Or two of these:
Tang Band W8-740P 8" Subwoofer 264-854

The Vifa is an 8ohm driver, so expect your amp to provide ~50% of its power at 8 ohm as it does at 4 ohms. Even at that level, it will still get fairly loud. It's an SQ sub through and through. 

The draw to home theater components is that they offer you a subwoofer that focuses on performance and sound quality, not flashy looks. These are no-frills subwoofers that simply perform. I'd have to model them to make 100% sure they'll work well in a reasonable alignment, but the low Qts on all of these indicates that they'll work wonderfully. These are designed for sound quality; high efficiency, lower power handling, low moving mass, and very musical sound. 

If you can afford the space, the 12" Peerless subwoofer might be the best choice out of those. 

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## djhamp (Jun 29, 2012)

Thanks! I really appreciate your time and knowlege on this stuff- I am learning as I go. What would be the box size between 12" peerless vs. the 2 8" Tang Band W8-740P's. I want to keep the trunk usable (and keep my wife happy)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

djhamp said:


> Thanks! I really appreciate your time and knowlege on this stuff- I am learning as I go. What would be the box size between 12" peerless vs. the 2 8" Tang Band W8-740P's. I want to keep the trunk usable (and keep my wife happy)


I never realized how well those TangBand W8-740Ps modeled. Incredible. Two of them in .8 cubic feet gross would be perfect, sealed that is. They also do very well vented, but would require a more expensive box due to the need for ports. I think these would be very nice in a small sealed box. A 95 gram moving mass is very respectable for a subwoofer with this strong of a motor. This may just be my new favorite 8" subwoofer for SQ systems. Both of them combined will have a piston area of 440 square CM. 










The Peerless 12" also looks very good. This has a 466 square CM cone area; just slightly larger than the two TangBand subs. This one would work perfectly in 1 cubic foot of space and the frequency response is very similar. Moving mass on this is 166 grams, which is quite nice for a 12" sub. It is also more sensitive than the two 8" TangBand subs, which basically means it will play louder with less power. I also very much like the cast aluminum frame that would look very, very nice with a flush mount in the right box. That said, it is $30 more expensive...










The choice is really up to you. I personally think the Peerless is a higher quality and better looking driver overall, but the TangBand subs are one heck a value. Trunk space requirements will be negligible between the two. The 12" box will probably be able to be made taller than the dual 8" box, allowing you to use vertical space that you would otherwise not use. 

I'm honestly torn between the two. They both appeal to me equally, but in different ways.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I've been making progress on Terry's (tecollins1) sub box for his new IDMax10. At first I told him I was going to make the baffle 2" thick. I changed my mind and decided 2.25" thick would be more appropriate. 


























































More pictures to come...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)




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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I <3 my dual bevel compound sliding miter saw...


















































































Got a chamfer routed on the back of the baffle...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got done with Terry's sub box. 

Coincidentally, I also have an IDMax10, so I threw it in the box to test it out and see what it sounds like. 

Verdict? Awesome. Hits deeper than my IDQ15, which was to be expected, but wow, it digs deep. The license plate will rattle if not dampened, the roof antenna will buzz, and even with two full CLD tiles on each quarter panel, you can still see them flex. 

Inside the car playing dubstep allows you to feel the pressure in your throat, and classic rock hits you in the chest like you were the drumskin itself. This will serve as an excellent "SQL" sub for a blend of synthetic and natural bass with an emphasis on synthetic bass.


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## RAW2U (Jul 31, 2012)

I agree for the money the W8-740 driver is a good driver with a lot of experience with that driver personally.( i brought in the original W8-740 driver)
Back in 2002.
Here is a little info a few years old also on the model we brought in W8-740C (TB changed the spec so a new driver was modeled to W8-740C)
These tests on the 8" drivers were done by MR Wright and Koonce.
http://www.flickr.com//photos/[email protected]/sets/72157624929086023/show/
Which TB sub would you prefer? - diyAudio

With the right box and amp these W8 drivers can rock.For small boxes they are really hard to touch for the money


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## Hectic (Aug 21, 2012)

Hi, I am from over on the Sonic Owners Forum, also known as Hectic.

Found this thread while scanning google for sub boxes, and figured I would get a quote.

1. JL Audio 12W3v3-2
2. Qes: 0.534 Qms: 7.678 Fs: 27.97Hz Vas: 2.806 ft^3 Sd: 80.600ft^2 Xmax: 0.510 RMS: 500W
3. Rear facing towards hatch
4. Focal Solid 1
5. Rap / Hip-Hop
6. Sound Quality would be preferred, but also love loud bass.

Would like a ported enclosure, as that is what my best experiences have been with.

I have JL's specs for Sealed and ported boxes if you would prefer to follow those.

Very interested in prices and shipping quotes to Canada as well.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hectic said:


> Hi, I am from over on the Sonic Owners Forum, also known as Hectic.
> 
> Found this thread while scanning google for sub boxes, and figured I would get a quote.
> 
> ...


Where specifically in Canada? Shipping cost may be a deal breaker...

Figure $175 for a single sub box sealed. If you want it ported (and I'm guessing that's the route we'd take), I would charge you $15 more for the extra routing I have to do for the ports and custom bracing, and I'd add exactly what ports cost me to purchase, which would be $25-$30. Worst case, we can figure $220 for the ported box. 

You can PM me the address and I'll try to get you a more exact shipping quote. In the states, I ship boxes for $50-$75, which includes my costs in packaging.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Here's what I have simulated for boundary loading/cabin pressurization gain for the Cruze:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm seeing a very general trend of around 6db/oct below 100Hz. I was using a little higher, about 8db/oct before.



XtremeRevolution said:


> The software I use allows me to apply that simulation to the raw frequency response of the subwoofer.


Which software(s) are you using? 



XtremeRevolution said:


> I've played around with locations and driver positioning to an extent. It will all sound different. However, I believe that what you're considering should work well as there will be significant amounts of boundary loading.


The last sub I had in a car was a Boston Pro 10.5LF, 0.5cuft as recommended, and found it sounded best located at the rear of the trunk facing forward. I had previously tried it at the rear facing rearward but it seemed to lose some energy through the trunk and didn't have the same bite to it. Since the box was so small I also played around with putting it in various locations in the interior just for fun, but in the trunk sounded best by far for the ~40-80Hz range (going by memory here).



XtremeRevolution said:


> I was working on building an MDF enclosure for the Cruze Eco floor... ...few subs that will work well in that airspace and be affordable. I've come across only two so far.


Care to share which subs? A pair of the Alpine SWR 8's have been at the top of my list so far, followed closely by some form of high excursion 10".

How much airspace do you think is available there? I haven't measured yet.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm seeing a very general trend of around 6db/oct below 100Hz. I was using a little higher, about 8db/oct before.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jeff Bagby's speaker design spreadsheets. jbagby

Sub placement is going to be limited to many people due to the need to use the trunk. It has a lot to do with the length of the waves and at which point they cancel out. You have the waves coming directly out of the speaker, and those wrapping around the box. If you have a box facing into the trunk against the back seats, you have a wave firing forward, then one wrapping around the box, traveling to the rear of the trunk, bouncing against the back of the trunk, coming back up to the box, and cancelling out the wave that's being produced by the cone. I tried it myself and lost virtually all bass output. It was crazy. Every car will be different. 

The only shallow mount subs I found that would work are:
Dayton NS210-44 8" Neodymium Low-Profile DVC Subwoofer 295-132
Tang Band WT-1427G 10" Neo Subwoofer 264-862

Either one of the 10" or two of the 8" would work well in that airspace. You have about .8 cubic feet to work with if you build an MDF box out of 1/2" MDF and add some bracing. That's really not a whole lot, and most "shallow mount" subs have motors that are much too weak to do well in that small of an airspace. I've modeled many.

The Alpine Type-Rs 8s are nice, but the mounting depth is greater than what you can fit in such a box and stay flush with the trunk floor. Also, I've found a sub that performs equally well, in smaller enclosures, and is cheaper:

W8-740p - Parts Express Ships Fast and Ships Free

Not as pretty, but for a $22 cheaper driver, I won't complain. Note the low Qts, very strong motor, low moving mass, and high (for an 8") piston area.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm seeing a very general trend of around 6db/oct below 100Hz. I was using a little higher, about 8db/oct before.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jeff Bagby's speaker design spreadsheets. jbagby

Sub placement is going to be limited to many people due to the need to use the trunk. It has a lot to do with the length of the waves and at which point they cancel out. You have the waves coming directly out of the speaker, and those wrapping around the box. If you have a box facing into the trunk against the back seats, you have a wave firing forward, then one wrapping around the box, traveling to the rear of the trunk, bouncing against the back of the trunk, coming back up to the box, and cancelling out the wave that's being produced by the cone. I tried it myself and lost virtually all bass output. It was crazy. Every car will be different. 

The shallow mount subs are:
Dayton NS210-44 8" Neodymium Low-Profile DVC Subwoofer 295-132
Tang Band WT-1427G 10" Neo Subwoofer 264-862

Either one of the 10" or two of the 8" would work well in that airspace. You have about .8 cubic feet to work with if you build an MDF box out of 1/2" MDF and add some bracing. That's really not a whole lot, and most "shallow mount" subs have motors that are much too weak to do well in that small of an airspace. 

The Alpine Type-Rs 8s are nice, but the mounting depth is greater than what you can fit in such a box and stay flush with the trunk floor. Also, I've found a sub that performs equally well, in smaller enclosures, and is cheaper:

W8-740p - Parts Express Ships Fast and Ships Free

Not as pretty, but for a $22 cheaper driver, I won't complain. Note the low Qts, very strong motor, low moving mass, and high (for an 8") piston area. It has all the makings of an excellent small-box SQ subwoofer.


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## Gfallspranksta (Aug 21, 2012)

Hey my name is Derek Hathaway I was wondering if you could build a box for 2 ia audio death penalty 21 inch subs they are gonna each rms at 2000 watts and they're going In a suburban any help would b great and if you could build them shipping would be worth it I don't trust my box skills with this build. Thanks my email is [email protected]


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Gfallspranksta said:


> Hey my name is Derek Hathaway I was wondering if you could build a box for 2 ia audio death penalty 21 inch subs they are gonna each rms at 2000 watts and they're going In a suburban any help would b great and if you could build them shipping would be worth it I don't trust my box skills with this build. Thanks my email is [email protected]


I sent you an email..

Edit...just in case anyone wonders what kind of subwoofer this is, it's on the "insanity" level. Each sub requires ~8.5 cubic feet. That's a total of 17 cubic feet for two subs. A box like this would would be in the range of 30" tall x 36" wide x 38" deep and require double thick MDF for all of the walls and quadruple thick MDF for the baffle, and this doesn't even include the bracing.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I discovered something to day that is worth sharing, repeatedly, so I'll start here. 

I'm a huge sucker for SQ car audio systems as everyone may have noticed. I like to get the best sound quality possible out of the most reasonable size and lowest cost. The Alpine 8" Type-R is a peoples' favorite; high motor strength, small size, great extension. The TangBand can do the same, but in a smaller box with a stronger motor, lower moving mass, all while being more than $20 cheaper. It's not as pretty though, by far. The IDQ drivers have always been a favorite of mine, especially the V2 series. 

The problem I have is that the market is changing toward SPL. The only way to get SQ is to buy an old driver (almost always used), or spend a lot of money on something by the likes Focal or Morel. There are a few home theater options as well, but they have some downfalls and can also be expensive. The market seems to think we all want high xmax, high moving mass, high power handling subs, with low efficiency. Power is cheap, so why make a sub efficient and sound good when people will buy something with massive excursion? The sad reality of it is that people have forgotten a thing called efficiency; being able to make your ears bleed off of two 15" subs on 250W RMS the way they did 20 years ago. High cone area, high efficiency, extremely high sound quality. In any given subwoofer of identical motor strength, a lower moving mass sub will always sound better. 

My firm belief is that it's better to move air through cone area, not through excursion. Keep power requirements low, distortion low, and raise efficiency. 

That's where my IDQ15 comes in. It's an amazing sub with a limited xmax (13.5mm), very limited xlim (maximum mechanical excursion), high sensitivity (94.7b @ 4 ohms), low moving mass, and incredible sound quality that doesn't fail to impress and blow people away. My biggest search so far has been a replacement for the IDQ15 because, simply put, there is no affordable equal. Well friends, my search is over. 

Let me introduce you to the Peavy 15" Low Rider:
Peavey :: 15" Low Rider® Subwoofer
Peavey 15" Low Rider Subwoofer Speaker Driver 294-303

Intended as a pro audio subwoofer, this has a cult-like following among certain car audio groups. Coming in at $200, it's right where I need it to be. What's impressive is the sensitivity. At 8 ohms, this subwoofer is 93.6db effiicient at 1W/1M @ 8 ohms. To make a comparison, if this were a 4 ohm driver, it would be 96.6db efficient, putting it above even the IDQ15. 

What's impressive is not just the 800W RMS power handling, or the 840 cm^2 cone area, or the cast aluminum frame, but the moving mass. *142.3 grams*. Many 10" subs exceed that! On as little as 100W RMS, this subwoofer would pound your head into oblivion while sounding unbelievably musical and articulate. 

If anyone wants an ultimate SQ sub, you don't have to look much farther. Just over 2.5 cubic feet makes this a very manageable sub box for anyone's trunk. This sub has made it very difficult for me to recommend anything above that price point unless someone is very concerned with box size. 

A quick box size would come in at 12.5" deep x 16" tall x 26-28" wide.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Hmmmm... suitability for use in a sealed alignment with such a low Qts? Just curious.

Hey, one watt is one watt, no matter what impedance you're talking about! I think you're refering to SPL @ 2.83V @ 1m.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Hmmmm... suitability for use in a sealed alignment with such a low Qts? Just curious.
> 
> Hey, one watt is one watt, no matter what impedance you're talking about! I think you're refering to SPL @ 2.83V @ 1m.


My IDQ15 has a .258 Qts and is HIGHLY recommended by ID for only sealed boxes. This will be excellent in a sealed box. Whichever sensitivity its in, it's very high. 200W RMS would be be plenty for this sub, but naturally more would be better.

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

amalmer71 said:


> That sub's suitable for those who are in the "one woofer world", but some of us like two woofers.
> 
> Are those available in 10" form?


Going off the website it looks like these are only available in 15" and 18". 
Also seems like they are ment for guitar amplifier speakers 
(which is prob why they are so high on the sensitivity scale)

My own speculation.

Sent from iPhone 4


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

amalmer71 said:


> That sub's suitable for those who are in the "one woofer world", but some of us like two woofers.
> 
> Are those available in 10" form?


Cone area. One 10" sub has ~350 square cm of cone area. This has 840 square cm. Output is directly related to cone area and excursion. You can achieve additional output however you want to. I choose to do it with only one driver as its cheaper that way. Find me 2 extremely high SQ 10" or 12" drivers for under $200. Not gonna happen. 



tecollins1 said:


> Going off the website it looks like these are only available in 15" and 18".
> Also seems like they are ment for guitar amplifier speakers
> (which is prob why they are so high on the sensitivity scale)
> 
> ...


It's a pro audio subwoofer, and a 15" is perfect. The high sensitivity allows you to get amazingly tight, accurate, and deep bass with incredible transient response. 

It's not pretty, but when you hear my IDQ, which is very similar to this, you'll understand what the big hype is about.

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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

What do you think of the DA pro sound 15?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-034

PE is claiming 5db higher efficiency than the Peavy with a lower Fs 28 Hz, but Vas is slightly higher and Xmax is only 5mm. $75.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> What do you think of the DA pro sound 15?
> 
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-034
> 
> PE is claiming 5db higher efficiency than the Peavy with a lower Fs 28 Hz, but Vas is slightly higher and Xmax is only 5mm. $75.


I'd have to model it, but the limited xmax kinda makes it not too suitable for a dedicated subwoofer.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dual IDQ10 *V2 *sub box I've been working on for HellaciousA. I found this lucky guy a pair of these in mint condition.


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## HellaciousA (Oct 7, 2011)

Wow, that looks great! I've built boxes before, but never on that kind of level, awesome work.


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## mabzmuzik (Jul 19, 2012)

Nice work X. Can't wait to get my box going.

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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Now that you've got me thinking about stuffing a 15 in my trunk, what are your thoughts on the old-school Cerwin Vega Strokers, the ones with the adjustable dual spiders? I have a 15" sitting in the basement, haven't used it for years. At the time it was in a vented box and ROCKED the house... it had more output than I ever needed and was too loud to leave turned up all the way for an entire song. It would just hit you in the back of the head and make your ears hurt. Any thoughts on how this thing would do sealed? It has a MASSIVE motor, but not sure about the other factors. Specs can be seen here (I think mine's a 15D2):

http://www.cerwinvegamobile.com/manuals/stroker_subwoofer_manual-1996.pdf


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Now that you've got me thinking about stuffing a 15 in my trunk, what are your thoughts on the old-school Cerwin Vega Strokers, the ones with the adjustable dual spiders? I have a 15" sitting in the basement, haven't used it for years. At the time it was in a vented box and ROCKED the house... it had more output than I ever needed and was too loud to leave turned up all the way for an entire song. It would just hit you in the back of the head and make your ears hurt. Any thoughts on how this thing would do sealed? It has a MASSIVE motor, but not sure about the other factors. Specs can be seen here (I think mine's a 15D2):
> 
> http://www.cerwinvegamobile.com/manuals/stroker_subwoofer_manual-1996.pdf


Just looking at those specs, it's no wonder that Qts is so low. Now we're talking. This sub reminds me a lot of the IDQ15 V1. Back then, companies made some truly great subwoofers. The idea was to create as much efficiency as possible, since power wasn't cheap. You used to be able to reach painful SPL levels with two 15" MTX or Kicker subs on 200W RMS.

Once power got cheap, companies realized they could just make shitty, low-efficiency subs. Unfortunately, that also eliminated a lot of the fidelity and accuracy of those subs in the search for the reproduction of deep synthetic bass. Having a tight sounding sub these days is almost a rarity. This Cerwin Vega sub is an example of the high efficiency, high fidelity subs that used to dominate the market before "big power" came on the scene. I would not hesitate to use that sub for even a second. 

Cerwin-Vega's box models for this sub are on the large and SPL side, however. If you wanted some sound quality, build it to these specs:

1.7 cubic feet net, tuned to 28hz. You'll need a high pass filter. Is there a specific amp you were thinking of using?

I can get you port and box specifics once I know what amp you want to use and what kind of high pass/subsonic filter you have available on it. That will greatly affect the size of the port I recommend. Without a high pass filter, you're looking at a port length of around 45-55 inches, which will take some creativity. Not a box for beginners to attempt to build. All of those bends will need to have rounded or chamfered corners.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Now we're talking. The idea was to create as much efficiency as possible, since power wasn't cheap. You used to be able to reach painful SPL levels with two 15" MTX or Kicker subs on 200W RMS.


I'm pretty sure it was the C-V spec box that I had it in. I could only run it at 4 ohms (didn't want to do 1 ohm) on my Soundstream Reference 500, so it was seeing about 450W RMS (based on a Car Stereo Review magazine review). Even at that low power (it's rated up to 1200 RMS) it still maxed out my buddy's Audio Control RTA at 136db playing music... bass heavy music, for sure, but not just a sine wave. It was painfully loud, and I never did put more than that Ref 500 on it.



XtremeRevolution said:


> Once power got cheap...


No kidding... I paid $999.00 + tax for that Ref 500 new, about $2/watt! But it was and still is to this day a great amp. I still have it.



XtremeRevolution said:


> I would not hesitate to use that sub for even a second.
> 
> Cerwin-Vega's box models for this sub are on the large and SPL side, however. If you wanted some sound quality, build it to these specs:
> 
> 1.7 cubic feet net, tuned to 28hz. You'll need a high pass filter. Is there a specific amp you were thinking of using?


I was all fired up to get a new class D amp since they're so affordable and efficient, but I do have a pile of old school Soundtream Reference amps sitting around... two 1000SX's, a 700SX, my trusty old 500, a 604, 300 and 200 I think. I may have 2 700's. I'll have to go look.

I really can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm still considering the class D route... it takes more power just to have a big A/B amp turned on than it does to have a D amp playing at a decent volume. I would likely use my 604 for mids/tweets as it's a great and powerful amp for that purpose, but for generating big power for a sub I might look elsewhere. What are your thoughts on this? How do you feel about your Alpine class D for sub use? I think you said you were using an MRP-M1000?



XtremeRevolution said:


> I can get you port and box specifics once I know what amp you want to use and what kind of high pass/subsonic filter you have available on it. That will greatly affect the size of the port I recommend. Without a high pass filter, you're looking at a port length of around 45-55 inches, which will take some creativity. Not a box for beginners to attempt to build. All of those bends will need to have rounded or chamfered corners.


I really should stop being so lazy and throw the specs for that Stroker into WinISD and play around with it a bit. You're right, the C-V box is a bit big. It hit incredibly hard but from what I remember was not the tightest sound, just big, thick, effortless bass. Live kickdrums, the kind that are tuned nice and low (think Eagles Hotel California from H-F-O) were litterally awesome when cranked up. I don't need that kind of brutal SPL anymore, but the kid in me would still want to be able blow my friend's heads off if I'm packing a 15. 

I would probably look at using a Ref 1000SX, maybe an MRX-M100, or maybe two MRX-M50's since it's a dual 2-ohm driver. All of these have an adjustable HPF. I'm not sure how much power a 1000SX will put out bridged @ 4 ohms, but assuming it performs at about the same scale as the 500 it should be around 800-900W. Too bad it will probably draw 4-5 amps just to keep it turned on...

What are your thoughts on using this sub sealed? I think it’s Xmax is only 11.5mm (it’s listed as 23mm p-p).


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm pretty sure it was the C-V spec box that I had it in. I could only run it at 4 ohms (didn't want to do 1 ohm) on my Soundstream Reference 500, so it was seeing about 450W RMS (based on a Car Stereo Review magazine review). Even at that low power (it's rated up to 1200 RMS) it still maxed out my buddy's Audio Control RTA at 136db playing music... bass heavy music, for sure, but not just a sine wave. It was painfully loud, and I never did put more than that Ref 500 on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will gladly take some of those A/B amps off your hands if you don't need them. 

Class D is great for making lots of power while keeping the strain on your electrical system at a minimum. However, read the fine print; they are only extremely efficient at higher impedances. For example, the MRP-M1000 is great at 4 ohms with an 80% efficiency into 600W RMS. The Sundown SAZ amplifiers are up to 86% efficient at 4 ohms. The moment you drop that to 2 ohms or 1 ohm, your efficiency goes out the window. It's still better than Class A/B, but it's not as efficient as one would expect. 




Blue Angel said:


> I really should stop being so lazy and throw the specs for that Stroker into WinISD and play around with it a bit. You're right, the C-V box is a bit big. It hit incredibly hard but from what I remember was not the tightest sound, just big, thick, effortless bass. Live kickdrums, the kind that are tuned nice and low (think Eagles Hotel California from H-F-O) were litterally awesome when cranked up. I don't need that kind of brutal SPL anymore, but the kid in me would still want to be able blow my friend's heads off if I'm packing a 15.


The advantage to using the software that I do is that I can model subwoofer boxes with cabin gain and boundary loading applied. That gives me a more realistic frequency response representation and allows me to model the sub around what it will actually sound like in the car. The model I gave you actually has a slight, wide hump in the mid 30 range as I figured you'd like a bit of low end authority. 










I really wouldn't tune any higher or make the box any bigger, as you'd start to make that hump into more of a peak and end up with much too heavy of a bottom end for SQ purposes. 

The challenge with this is that you have a small box, so tuning low will require a long port. In addition to that, you have a sub that moves a lot of air, so you'll need a larger (and therefore longer) port. To support 1000W peaks without port chuffing or de-tuning, you'd be looking at a port equivalent to three 3" round port, 40.5 inches in length. This will have you wrapping the port around the box, with at least 3 bends in total. With that many bends, you'll need to be careful with how you make the ports, as air doesn't like to change direction that quickly without creating additional turbulence. My vent air velocity chart with 1000W peaks would indicate that this may still be too small of a port if you have to make many bends. As a rule of thumb, I design boxes to have a port velocity of no greater than 37.5 m/s with a sine wave. Real-world scenarios will produce velocities about half that, which will ensure that no de-tuning occurs. Anyways, here's the vent air velocity chart:










This is why I asked you what kind of amplifier you plan on using. What I've done before with boxes that are more difficult to work with and require somewhat ridiculous port sizes and lengths is that I'll build the box around one's ability to set a high pass filter on their amplifier. Since that vent velocity peak is fairly low in the 20s, setting a 4th order high pass filter at 25hz will reduce output at around that range, which consequently reduces our vent velocity peak while not affecting any of our musical range. Here's what it would look like with that filter in place:


















As you can see there, our frequency response remained fairly intact, while our vent velocity dropped significantly. Based on that, we can make the port significantly smaller and shorter, which makes this box easier to build. It really depends on what amplifier you use and what high pass/subsonic filter it has available. 




Blue Angel said:


> I would probably look at using a Ref 1000SX, maybe an MRX-M100, or maybe two MRX-M50's since it's a dual 2-ohm driver. All of these have an adjustable HPF. I'm not sure how much power a 1000SX will put out bridged @ 4 ohms, but assuming it performs at about the same scale as the 500 it should be around 800-900W. Too bad it will probably draw 4-5 amps just to keep it turned on...
> 
> What are your thoughts on using this sub sealed? I think it’s Xmax is only 11.5mm (it’s listed as 23mm p-p).




I can model any high pass filter into the frequency response, so just let me know what your amplifier is capable of and I can tell you how big your port(s) need to be. 

Sorry about that, I completely overlooked your initial question regarding how it would look in a selaed box. Sealed looks great in-cab. If you wanted to run it sealed, you'd need to put it in ~2 cubic feet _gross_. Doesn't look bad at all. 










Between the two, I'd personally run it sealed, but if you wanted some additional output, ported wouldn't be bad at all. With the filter applied, groupu delay is practically nonexistent, never exceeding 5ms. It depends on what kind of music you listen to. You're looking at a ~6db boost at 30hz with the ported box, which is pretty significant, so if you'll be playing a lot of rap, dubstep, techno, or other synthetic bass, you'd go with the ported box. If you rarely listen to that kind of material, go with the sealed box. 

Either way, go with this sub. I think you'd be happy with it in either of these alignments.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Wow - thanks for all the modelling! I feel guilty asking you to do more, but what happens to the vented box size if we shoot for a flat (non-rising) response to 30Hz? Can we keep tuning the same and reduce Vb slightly? This will obviously make for longer ports, but then consider the HPF in the amp...

I will assume for now that I would use my 1000SX. It has what Soundstream called "LSE.Q" for tuning vented enclosures. From the manual:

*"LSE.Q is a unique subwoofer control circuit included with the SOUNDSTREAM REFERENCE 1000s amplifier. It is capable of removing subsonic energy in program material. The circuit consists of two controls. One adjusts the frequency of operation and the other adjusts the range of boost. With both controls adjusted fully counter-clockwise, no boost is applied and the amplifier is flat in response down to 30 Hz.

The frequency control (Hz) adjusts the starting point of the subsonic filter. This high pass filter can be adjusted from 30 Hz up to a maximum of 60 Hz. This control is useful for setting the lowest frequency that your subwoofer will see. (See figure 1)

The Q control adjusts the amount of boost applied at the set frequency. This is adjustable from .707 (flat) to 2.8 (+9 dB). (See figure 2) When the Q is set to .707 (Butterworth), LSE.Q acts as a sub-sonic filter only. (See figure 3)

NOTE: The LSE.Q circuit on the REF 1000s can be defeated for flat operation down to 20 Hz by placing the LSE.Q switch in the "OUT" position."
*
In a nutshell, it's a 12db/oct high pass adjustable from 30-60Hz with an optional boost at the set frequency.

Also from the manual, the amp is rated at 800W RMS into a mono 4 ohm load, and 1000 into 2 ohms. Soundstream usually under rated a bit, but those are probably good numbers to model with. My Stroker is dual 2 ohm, so 4 ohm output is what it will see.

So how's a slightly smaller vented box tuned at the same frequency look for power handling and vent size given those amp parameters?

The sealed box looks pretty attractive too! Qtc = 0.42 though? That seems awful low? I haven't done any experimenting so I have no real world experience with this, but I always read that as a general guideline sealed Q should be between 0.5 and 1 for good cone control? Is what I've read accurate, or just an old wives' tale? I always thought that a Q of less than 0.5 was starting to approach "free-air" and many drivers aren't well equipped for that? Please feel free to advise otherwise… as I say I'm just repeating what I've read.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Wow - thanks for all the modelling! I feel guilty asking you to do more, but what happens to the vented box size if we shoot for a flat (non-rising) response to 30Hz? Can we keep tuning the same and reduce Vb slightly? This will obviously make for longer ports, but then consider the HPF in the amp...
> 
> I will assume for now that I would use my 1000SX. It has what Soundstream called "LSE.Q" for tuning vented enclosures. From the manual:
> 
> ...


In my experience, you cannot have too low of a Qtc in-box, as long as the frequency response is where you want it to be and the bottom end isn't too loud. Too high of a Qtc will actually cause the subwoofer to sound very boomy. I wouldn't call it cone control as much as I'd call it cone restriction. The smaller airspace acts as a spring against the subwoofer, limiting its excursion. Effectively, this forces low frequency response to be somewhat muted, while the higher frequencies that require less cone movmenet will retain their output level. There is always the chance of bottoming out the subwoofer due to over-excursion with larger boxes, but this is something that should rely not on the design of the box, but on your ability to control the bass knob and understand the limits of your subwoofer. A Qtc as low as the box I recommended would indeed begin to approach free-air, but without it, you would lose much of your bottom end (45hz and below). With an xmax of 11.5, you have the chance to bottom out the subwoofer on some hard bass notes, but this is an issue you'd have with any properly designed sealed box. 

A vented box will control excursion at the tuning frequency, which allows you to greatly increase the total output of your subwoofer along its entire frequency range without worry of exceeding its mechanical limitations. 

Applying a 30hz, 12db/octave high pass filter makes the vented response fairly flat with the same box size. It allows you to reduce the port size by ~30% as well, which will help you significantly. Here's my recommendation for the vented box:

Volumes:
Internal volume: 2.0 cubic feet net
Port displacement: .17 cubic feet
Driver displacement: .2 cubic feet

Total gross volume: 2.37 cubic feet

Port dimentions: one 4" double flared (aka aero) port at 20.5" in length, side firing. This must be a double flared port, or you will require a larger and longer port. Port tuning is 27hz. These are the parts you'll need to create this port:

Madisound Speaker Store
Madisound Speaker Store
Madisound Speaker Store

The below models are done with a 1000hz peak simulation (except for the frequency response, which is simulated at 10W). It includes your 30hz, 12db/octave filter, and is also modeled with a 2.5" thick acoustic foam on all of the walls except the baffle. 

Frequency Response:









Group Delay:









Excursion:









Vent Air Velocity:


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for all the modelling! I have some thinking to do! The teenager in me wants to build the vented box as you suggest just for the ridiculous output, but I'm starting to like the idea of going smaller and sealed.

I keep reminding myself this is a healthy and efficient 15" sub with north of 800W at its disposal - even sealed it will have plenty of output. It will also have the ability to get sub-sonic low, and it's been a long time since I've had a sub that could play (most of) the information below 20 Hz in my Telarc discs. I don't listen to those often, but they make for really cool demos. In car F3 at ~30 Hz and F10 around 15 Hz looks pretty good. With a Qtc of 0.42 I could probably even shrink that enclosure down a bit without losing much off the bottom.

Since the driver weighs 34 lbs by itself, maybe I could try building a tube with a domed end to keep it light. Ever done a tube enclosure before?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Thanks for all the modelling! I have some thinking to do! The teenager in me wants to build the vented box as you suggest just for the ridiculous output, but I'm starting to like the idea of going smaller and sealed.
> 
> I keep reminding myself this is a healthy and efficient 15" sub with north of 800W at its disposal - even sealed it will have plenty of output. It will also have the ability to get sub-sonic low, and it's been a long time since I've had a sub that could play (most of) the information below 20 Hz in my Telarc discs. I don't listen to those often, but they make for really cool demos. In car F3 at ~30 Hz and F10 around 15 Hz looks pretty good. With a Qtc of 0.42 I could probably even shrink that enclosure down a bit without losing much off the bottom.
> 
> Since the driver weighs 34 lbs by itself, maybe I could try building a tube with a domed end to keep it light. Ever done a tube enclosure before?


The sub really is designed to be used in a vented alignment. The low xmax will not lend itself well to subsonic material. I would have a high pass filter on even with the box sealed for the simple purpose of power handling. It will bottom out easily otherwise. 

The Qtc does look low, but don't push your luck on the box size, as it can quickly start sounding too small. I wouldn't go any smaller than 1.7 cubic feet gross.

I've never used or made a tube enclosure before.


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## musgofasa (Jun 3, 2012)

Hi Guys! 

Sorry I have been missing for so long. Things have been crazy at my job and finances are keeping me from getting much done to the car right now. Hope all that will change early next year though. Just a pop in after speaking with a friend of mine. He has 2 IDQ 10" (dual 4-ohm) that are about 3 years old but only barely used for sale. He also has 3 of the same series 8" IDQ's for sale. 

The shop he works for stopped carrying ID and is now selling ARC audio so they are looking at updating all their vehicles with the new equipment. So they are looking to sell these subs. To be honest, I want the 10s for myself, but am strapped for cash atm. 

he is asking 140 for the pair 10s and 250 for the 3 8s. If anyone is interested hit me up and I will get you in contact. I think he said he could do all 5 drivers for a better price if someone wants all of them. 

Any ideas on using either of these in the cruze? If I can come up with the money I might just try to take a set of these if he still has them.

Take care everyone!
Robert


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

What version IDQs? I just finished a box for a guy here for two IDQ10 V2 subs. They are excellent SQ subs and are getting very hard to find.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Finally had some time to get some pictures uploaded of the IDQ10 box I was building for HellaciousA. Since I had an IDQ10 V2 on hand, I was able to build this to some pretty tight tolerances. The sub itself actually has to get pressed into the recess. You need to put a bit of weight on it and it will pop right into place, but you can't rotate it without pulling it back out. Makes for a really nice looking flush mount.


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## musgofasa (Jun 3, 2012)

I am 95% sure they are v2 subs. I will try to confirm this week. Went to talk to him at a local show today but the poor guy had to go to a in-laws birthday party lol


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

musgofasa said:


> I am 95% sure they are v2 subs. I will try to confirm this week. Went to talk to him at a local show today but the poor guy had to go to a in-laws birthday party lol


I might be interested. V2 subs have been increasingly difficult to find. They're the last of subs created during an era that valued efficiency and sound quality over raw power handling and excursion. I would be interested in buying all 5 of them if he doesn't mind shipping them out.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

can you do a box design for a fosgate p3 15?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> can you do a box design for a fosgate p3 15?


I can if you read my first post in this thread and get me the information I need.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

CEA-2031 Compliant: 









 Size:  15" 


 Nominal Impedance:  Dual 2-Ohm 


 Power Handling (Watts RMS):  600 Watts RMS 
1200 Watts Max 


 Voice Coil Diameter:  2.5" 
(65.5 mm) 


 Magnet Weight (oz):  96 oz. 
2.73 kg. 


 Speaker Connector:  Dual 10 AWG compression 


 Fs (Hz):  21.7 


 Re (Ohms):  3.20 


 Le (mH):  4.06 


 Qms:  7.20 


 Qes:  0.58 


 Qts:  0.54 


 Vas (Liters):  155.8 


 Sd (cm[SUP]2[/SUP]):  894 


 SPL (dB @ 1w/1m):  86 


 Xmax (mm):  15.2 


 Woofer Displacement (in):  0.247 cu. ft. 
(7 Liters) 


 Cutout Diameter (in):  13.94 in. 
(353 mm) 


 Mounting Depth (in):  7.58 in. 
(192.5 mm) 


 Shipping Weight:  23.3 Lbs. 
(10.56 kg)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> CEA-2031 Compliant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See my initial post again. I asked 6 questions:



> 1. Make/Model of Subwoofer
> 2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters (Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling)
> 3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub
> 4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier
> ...


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

1. I have 2 fosgate p3 15's. Their newest model. Dual 2 ohm.
2. All that is in the other post. 
3. In the trunk facing back.
4. Its an alpine mrx-m110 1100 watt amp.
5. I listen to dubstep, pop, rap anything that beats.
6. And for spl


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> 1. I have 2 fosgate p3 15's. Their newest model. Dual 2 ohm.
> 2. All that is in the other post.
> 3. In the trunk facing back.
> 4. Its an alpine mrx-m110 1100 watt amp.
> ...


What car is this going into, and what are your space constraints? Height and width are what I'm primarily concerned with.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

2011 eco. Height of 17 inches and width of 37 1/4 in


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> 2011 eco. Height of 17 inches and width of 37 1/4 in


Alright, thanks. Might have to get creative here as I can guarantee you it won't fit with the maximum width through the trunk opening, and these subs will take up some space. I believe the maximum you can with at that height through the trunk opening is 34". Don't quote me on that though. 

Let me see what I can do as far as a box design goes.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

My box right now is like 36 width and 16.25 height and it barely fits through the trunk


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I just did some modeling. Did you already buy these subs? If so, how attached are you to them?

The reason why I ask is that you won't have a trunk left once you're done. I know you asked for SPL, but I'm assuming you also don't want to sound like complete ass, and in order to decent output in the frequency range you'll find in dubstep and rap, you'll need a prohibitively large box. 

Keep in mind, these are 15" subs, and not very high end ones at that. Nothing I'm modeling is showing that you can get away with under a minimum of 7.5 cubic feet. To give you some perspective, here's a ~4.75 cubic foot box I built for a guy here earlier in this thread. 










That box was 15.75" tall x 32" wide x 24.5" deep. To meet a 7.5 cubic foot net volume, you'd be looking at 17" tall x 32" wide x 34" deep, and over 80 pounds of MDF. 

If you're prepared to give up your entire trunk and don't mind the weight, I can get you some final dimensions.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

7.5 total. Meaning 3.75 per sub?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> 7.5 total. Meaning 3.75 per sub?


Yep, and that's net volume, not including sub, port, and bracing displacement.

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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

In the picture, what is the piece in the middle on both sides for?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> In the picture, what is the piece in the middle on both sides for?


Bracing. With a box that large, the walls are going to flex and buzz. The bracing adds strength and rigidity, and increases the impact the subs have.

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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

Ohh well could you do a design with a slated back to go with the seat?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> Ohh well could you do a design with a slated back to go with the seat?


Not point to it. The plateau at the floor of the trunk right before the seats stops the box from touching the seat anyway. You wouldn't gain a consequential amount of space even if you could. 

These subs are simply too weak to be used in reasonably sized boxes. 

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I've been building a couple of boxes lately, for terrym and apr1209. I haven't had a whole lot of time, but I managed to get quite a bit done on them and finally got some pictures uploaded so I thought I'd share. 

They both wanted a box for a single IDQ12 V3, so I built them identical.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

dang you sure know how to build a box. what kinda port size would i be looking at for a box that is 8 cubic feet?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> dang you sure know how to build a box. what kinda port size would i be looking at for a box that is 8 cubic feet?


Thanks! I do take a lot of pride in my work. 

I'd have to model it, but for those 15" RF P3s, you'd probably be looking at a couple of 4" aero ports, length depending on the tuning frequency you want. Using a slot port would only make the already huge box even heavier and larger. 

Honestly dude, I'd sell those subs if you already bought them and start thinking about something a bit more practical. You can get loud as **** on 4 cubic feet with a couple of 12s in a ported box that would get louder than those RF P3s. If you wanted to stay on a budget, you should have run Two SSA Dcon 15 subs, as you could have run them both in 4 cubic feet gross including sub and port displacement. The RF P3 15" subs aren't very good subs.


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## sly424 (Oct 16, 2012)

I am interested in having a box built for a photobooth. is there an email i can send you specs to?


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## terrym (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks for posting the photos - the boxes looks great! I'm looking forward to receiving mine. It's a great feeling to know that my sub will have a well built custom home.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Mineral wool is glued in, and baffles are on. 










Next is routing the hole for the terminal, and carpeting them.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Must




Use




More




Clamps




--------------

Nice work! How many clamps do you own? LOL

On an un-related note, I had purchased a HUGE tapered lampshade and a large spherically shaped metal serving platter from IKEA to use as a mold for creating a light weight sub enclosure that would total ~2.4 ft3. After playing around with it, I've had to admit that even though it fits inside the trunk and sits where I wanted it to, I won't be able to get it INTO the trunk once the thickness of the baffles is added to the front of the shape. That, and I'd be signing up to a LOT of fiberglassing, as well as wasted space inside the trunk. A regular enclosure, although heavy, is looking like the way to go.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Must
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL! I actually do need more clamps!

Imagine that I need a clamp wherever a screw would normally be used. I used almost all of my clamps in the above picture. I had 5 or 6 left after I clamped those two sub boxes. 

Fiberglass work is a bit of a pain, from what I hear. I've just given up on it. There are other ways to get great sound without needing to make it look ridiculously flashy. A regular enclosure won't be too heavy. Expect 40-60lbs for a dual sub box, and 30lbs for a single sub box. It's a bit of weight, no doubt, but nothing consequential. The heaviest box I've built was the one I shipped out for jherman08 for 4 IDQ12 subs. That was 80lbs shipped including the packaging. Each sub weighs in at 30lbs, making it a 200lbs loaded box.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

Im new to this but i need help. I have two cvr 12s and want to build a ported box for them. if this thread is still good and you can help please respond and ill send the specs thank you


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

could you look at a box design that would be 37.25 width and 16.5 height and the depth wouldnt matter along with what kinda port size would i be looking at for it to be as loud as possible.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> could you look at a box design that would be 37.25 width and 16.5 height and the depth wouldnt matter along with what kinda port size would i be looking at for it to be as loud as possible.


With that height and width, you'll be looking at 31" deep for the box, using two 6" double flared round ports, at 26" in length. 

You'll need bracing because those panels will be huge, and you'll need a double thick baffle as well, making it a tad bit deeper. Those dimensions include a ridge on the sides 3/4" deep so you can actually handle the box. Expect it to weigh close to 100 pounds, and require more than one sheet of MDF.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> With that height and width, you'll be looking at 31" deep for the box, using two 6" double flared round ports, at 26" in length.
> 
> You'll need bracing because those panels will be huge, and you'll need a double thick baffle as well, making it a tad bit deeper. Those dimensions include a ridge on the sides 3/4" deep so you can actually handle the box. Expect it to weigh close to 100 pounds, and require more than one sheet of MDF.


what would the cubic feet be on that?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> what would the cubic feet be on that?


I don't remember exactly. Something like 8.7 cubic feet after subwoofer, port, and bracing displacement. 

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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I don't remember exactly. Something like 8.7 cubic feet after subwoofer, port, and bracing displacement.
> 
> Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Okay that is massive. Can you give me final dimensions of a box that has that height and width but is more around the 7.5 cubic foot range? That would still be pretty loud? RF's website states that this sub has a recommended ported box volume of 2.66 cubic feet and it says it can do 132 db on that with a 4in diameter port that is 10in long. Should i try to go louder or just build the box that is recommended?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> Okay that is massive. Can you give me final dimensions of a box that has that height and width but is more around the 7.5 cubic foot range? That would still be pretty loud? RF's website states that this sub has a recommended ported box volume of 2.66 cubic feet and it says it can do 132 db on that with a 4in diameter port that is 10in long. Should i try to go louder or just build the box that is recommended?


I told you before we started that you picked a set of subs that will never sound good and require much too big of a box. If I make the box any smaller, it's not going to sound good. I told you from the start that they would be massive, and the reason for this is that you have a very large cone area (15" sub, figure 840 square CM), but you have a very weak motor, so the only way you're going to get low frequency extension is with a big box. 

If I make the box any smaller, it's going to sound boomy and I will not be able to effectively tune it to a decently low frequency. 

My recommendation was and still is to sell them and get a better sub if you cannot afford the space they will command to sound anywhere close to decent. I'm sorry bud, but these are 15" subs, not 10" or 12". A 15" sub has more cone area than two 10" subs. 

To give you some perspective in this particular case, you have as much cone area as 5 10" subs. RF's website is full of compromises. I've been doing this for a while, and I've never heard a sub reach its potential and sound good on the manufacturer's recommended box size. Also, that 2.66 cubic feet of ported volume rarely includes the port displacement and the subwoofer displacement. You asked me to design you a box, and so I did. Don't forget, you are attempting to run two weak 15" subs. Most people are lucky if they can run one in a sedan. 

Something like a Sundown Audio SA-12 would make you very happy and would actually work in a decent sized box. 

Amazon.com: SA-12 D2 - Sundown Audio 12" 600W Dual 2-Ohm SA Series Subwoofer: Car Electronics

An SA-12 will take 750W-1000W RMS all day long and smile right back at you. Two of them will make your quarter panels flex. 










Your RF P3s won't do that.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

well they dont flex my quarter panels right now but they do flex my trunk, roof, and rear window


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> well they dont flex my quarter panels right now but they do flex my trunk, roof, and rear window


I would be very concerned if your rear window is flexing. I'm assuming you mean your rearview mirror is flexing?

Either way, manufacturer recommendations for boxes are always full of compromises. Output and extension are two of those compromises. If you can't build them to the specification I recommended (give or take .25 cubic feet), you'll need to look at using a different sub because there's no other way to make these sound decent. If you had asked me first, I wouldn't have recommended them, and would have instead recommended a pair of SSA Dcon 15s, as an example, or a variety of other subwoofers. There's not much else I can do for you. Either way you look at it, this box is going to be massive. Give or take an inch or two in depth isn't going to change that.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

No I took my rear view mirror off cause it always just faced down. And if I were to build a massive box like you say what kinda cubic footage should I aim for after bracing sub and port is taking out?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> No I took my rear view mirror off cause it always just faced down. And if I were to build a massive box like you say what kinda cubic footage should I aim for after bracing sub and port is taking out?


Come on, you're killing me dude. We already went over this, lol. Given a 3/4" wall thickness, it's not hard to calculate the interior volume. You asked me to get you a depth given a specific height and width on the last page. 

Go here:

Speaker Enclosure Volume Calculator

You need 7.5 cubic feet net volume. I already told you this before, so there's no need to ask again. 

You need two 6" ports at 26" in length each. An online calculator can easily help you find the displacement of that, but since I remember, I'll just tell you: 0.92 cubic feet. We're up to 8.42 cubic feet. Now add the displacement of the subs, which is .11 cubic feet per sub, for a total of .22 cubic feet. You're now at 8.64 cubic feet. 

Using the calculator in that link I posted above (scroll down a bit, you'll find it), and assuming a 3/4" MDF material (which is actually .775"), with a 3/4" lip on each side to allow you to lift and carry it easily, you end up with 8.71 cubic feet gross volume. The extra .07 cubic feet takes care of any bracing you will be adding. 

It's all simple math, and there are online calculators for everything you may want to calculate.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

On that box what would the tuning be on that?

On another note, how about a good ported enclosure not meant for spl?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Michael Hutchins said:


> on that box what would the tuning be on that?


The box tuning doesn't matter. What does matter is where your peak is. The peak will be centered around 30-40hz.

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## Stlucky22 (Sep 28, 2012)

So I have been running wires and attempting to make door baffles with very little success, but still at least one door somewhat done. I opted to go with equipment I had laying around the house for now. I have 2 6.5 component sets, mb quarts rvf216 and ma audio hk60c. While I started out with SQ as my focus, the buzz I get from the brakes has me wondering if I should just use the Memphis MOJO dual 2ohm (I think) 12 since I'm looking at it every day. What do u think of that sub for new age techno, reggae, sublime type music?

And my actual question. I know someone that does custom fiberglass for boats. What are your thoughts on fiberglass enclosures. I had never considered it until he offered to make one. Are they able to produce sound like MDF boxes? Or would I only be wasting time?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Stlucky22 said:


> So I have been running wires and attempting to make door baffles with very little success, but still at least one door somewhat done. I opted to go with equipment I had laying around the house for now. I have 2 6.5 component sets, mb quarts rvf216 and ma audio hk60c. While I started out with SQ as my focus, the buzz I get from the brakes has me wondering if I should just use the Memphis MOJO dual 2ohm (I think) 12 since I'm looking at it every day. What do u think of that sub for new age techno, reggae, sublime type music?
> 
> And my actual question. I know someone that does custom fiberglass for boats. What are your thoughts on fiberglass enclosures. I had never considered it until he offered to make one. Are they able to produce sound like MDF boxes? Or would I only be wasting time?


The Memphis MOJO sub is, surprisingly, an SPL oriented sub. With a moving mass of 463 and a very low sensitivity of 81db, I wouldn't even bother to use it for SQ purposes. I haven't modeled it yet, but just look at the T/S parameters, it's not something I'd get excited about or go out of my way to try in my car. It looks like it was designed specifically to be abused, in a ported box. 

Fiberglass is nice if and only if you are actually saving space by doing it. I don't like it because it's not as dead as MDF is. If you have to fit a sub in the corner of your trunk, I can see the benefits, but for higher powered subs that need a strong box, I'd still go with MDF.


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## queencitypr0 (Feb 16, 2011)

What do you recommend for a jl 12W6v2-D4?

*Qes*= 0.48, *Qms*= 7.1 *Fs*= 25.0 Hz, *Vas*= 2.82 cu ft, *Sd*= 77.8 sq in *Xmax*= 17mm, *RMS*= 600w)

Up against the seat on the passenger side of the trunk.

JBL GTO 7001.

Mostly R&B, Rap, some light rock.

SQ! Is my primary goal.

Thanks for your input.


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

have you ever dealt with dd subs? if so do you like them? and what do you think about their 2500 15? Rear facing and spl

Cutout Diameter14.06FS34.99 HzMagnet Weight160 ozMounting Depth (in.)7.75Nominal ImpedanceD4.0 Ohm / D2.0 OhmPower Handling RMS/Peak800/3200QTS0.854QES0.975QMS6.864Series2500cShipping Weight26lbsSuspension Travel66 mmVAS84.330 LVoice Coil Diameter2.5"


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

queencitypr0 said:


> What do you recommend for a jl 12W6v2-D4?
> 
> *Qes*= 0.48, *Qms*= 7.1 *Fs*= 25.0 Hz, *Vas*= 2.82 cu ft, *Sd*= 77.8 sq in *Xmax*= 17mm, *RMS*= 600w)
> 
> ...


Not really an SQ sub, but if you want to use it, us these specs:

Sealed box, 2.25 cubic feet. Use a 2.5" acoustic pad (mineral wool or acoustic foam) on all of the walls except for the baffle. Don't forget the bracing. 



Michael Hutchins said:


> have you ever dealt with dd subs? if so do you like them? and what do you think about their 2500 15? Rear facing and spl
> 
> Cutout Diameter14.06FS34.99 HzMagnet Weight160 ozMounting Depth (in.)7.75Nominal ImpedanceD4.0 Ohm / D2.0 OhmPower Handling RMS/Peak800/3200QTS0.854QES0.975QMS6.864Series2500cShipping Weight26lbsSuspension Travel66 mmVAS84.330 LVoice Coil Diameter2.5"


Digital Designs makes some SERIOUS SPL subs. In fact, I'd almost call them dedicated competition subs. Keep in mind; this is a 15" we're talking about here. 

For a single DD 2500 15", you'll want to put this in no less 6.5 than cubic feet net volume. You'll want three double flared 4" ports at 12.25" in length each, which will displace .3 cubic feet. Assuming a subwoofer displacement of .15 cubic feet, you'll want to build the box to a gross volume of 6.95 cubic feet total. This is quite a bit smaller than the previous recommendation of 8.7 cubic feet with the RF P3s. 

A double thick baffle and bracing is absolutely required for this box. No fill or acoustic pad needed. 

Ports you'd need to buy 3 of:
The Madisound Speaker Store


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## queencitypr0 (Feb 16, 2011)

What makes it not a sq sub?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

queencitypr0 said:


> What makes it not a sq sub?


It's a JL Audio sub. The only sub that's remotely appropriate for SQ use is their W7, and even then it's not a particularly good *value *compared to the IDMax. The W6 has too heavy of a moving mass and too weak of a motor to be a true SQ sub. You can throw it in a sealed box to get better sound quality out of it than you would in a ported box, and a true SQ sub will sound worse in a shitty box than a W6 will in a well designed box, but at the end of the day, it's still not an SQ sub. It's a general purpose sub designed to be abused by the masses. Most brand name subs are. If you're reading reviews of people glorifying it for SQ use, consider what they're comparing it to. Kicker subs? Rockford Fosgate P3s? Alpine E-types? MTX subs? I can guarantee you they're not comparing it to IDQs, Morel Ultimos, or Focals. 

Read the following:

What makes an SQ Subwoofer - The Xtreme Revolution

I happen to recommend Image Dynamics subs because they fit the bill, both with regard to sound quality and with regard to output, and they are very musical, transparent, and efficient. However, there are others out there that also share the same characteristics, although they are becoming harder to find, and some are quite expensive. 

This here, is an SQ sub:
Image Dynamics IDQ10 D4 V2 10" Car Subwoofer Old School Mint | eBay

My article will explain what to look for.


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## queencitypr0 (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks for the information!


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

okay since just one would fit how about a dd 3500?

Crossover Slope14.06FS33.65 HzMagnet Weight240 ozMounting Depth (in.)8.25Nominal ImpedanceD.5, D1.0, D2.0, D4.0 OhmPower Handling RMS/Peak1200/4800QTS0.493QES0.529QMS7.146Series3500gShipping Weight38lbsSuspension Travel80 mmVAS53.86 LVoice Coil Diameter3"


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## Michael Hutchins (Sep 28, 2012)

or a 9500 series??

BL30-40FS32HzMagnet Weight406 ozitem9515iNominal ImpedanceD.5,D.7,D1.0,D1.5,D2.0,D4.0Power Handling RMS/Peak1500/6000QTS0.30QES0.32QMS4.45Shipping Weight59 lbsSuspension Travel80 mmVAS77LVoice Coil Diameter3"Woofer Diameter15"


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

The final dimension came out to 12.5X30X32.5. Im wrapping it in black and white vinyl, ill poost those pics when finshed.. I dont have a picture with the bracing but i used a 4" holesaw in the divder about 8 holes then i cut the braces like your pictures but only the width. i had only the divder and one brace going the width.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Looks good! How did you figure out the port dimensions?


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## edro (Apr 18, 2012)

*still doing sub box design for us?*

Thanks for all the good info & time you devote to the site. 
I'm getting ready to do a little audio upgrade to my Cruze (12 Eco.) So my brother works for Harman and got me a good deal on some stuff:

*Amp - JBL GTO-5EZ*

5-channel
50 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms + 350 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms
75 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms + 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms
150 watts RMS x 2 bridged at 4 ohms + 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms
*Sub - 12" Infinity 1262w*
4 ohms
Dual Voice Coil
Sensitivity 93 dB at 2.83 watts
Frequency Response 23 - 400 Hz
RMS Power Range (Watts) 100-300
Peak Power Handling (Watts) 1200
Vas (liters) 80.14
Fs (Hz) 25
Qts 0.46
Xmax (millimeters) 13


*Front - Kappa 63.9i
Back deck - Kappa 692.9i*

I think I'm going to keep the stock head unit for now and I'd the smallest sub box possible & still sound ok. I listen to mostly 90's rock/rap and maybe more current stuff like Beck/White Stripes/Flaming Lips I also listen to lot's of audio books & podcasts.
So fell free to give any suggestions or tips, all is appreciated.
Thanks


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

What is the Qms and Qes of the sub?

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## edro (Apr 18, 2012)

Qms - 6.84 Qes - .49

sorry just pulled all the stuff that crutchfield had...

here's the full spec sheet http://us.infinitysystems.com/tl_fi.../Reference/Reference/1262w/REF1262W_PI_EN.pdf


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I'll get you a box designed as soon as I can.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

here it is wrapped it was harder than i thought but it worked out well.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

edro said:


> Qms - 6.84 Qes - .49
> 
> sorry just pulled all the stuff that crutchfield had...
> 
> here's the full spec sheet http://us.infinitysystems.com/tl_fi.../Reference/Reference/1262w/REF1262W_PI_EN.pdf


1.6 cubic feet gross volume is what you'll want to use as a bare minimum. I really wouldn't go any smaller than that. Qts at that size is .78; a bit higher than what I prefer for SQ purposes, but you can make it work with limited space. A 2.5" thick acoustic pad on the walls is *required *for this box in order to flatten the frequency response. 

Bracing is recommended, but not required at this power level. You could get away with just a few straight pieces of bracing instead of routed bracing like I use on all of the boxes I build. However, a double thick baffle with a flush mount is highly recommended. 

Let me know if you have any questions or want to see the frequency response chart.


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## edro (Apr 18, 2012)

So 3/4" mdf right? & you have linked to the acoustic pad in this thread before, are there any places locally to get that stuff?
Sure I'd like to see the chart if it's not too much trouble.
Thanks man!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

edro said:


> So 3/4" mdf right? & you have linked to the acoustic pad in this thread before, are there any places locally to get that stuff?
> Sure I'd like to see the chart if it's not too much trouble.
> Thanks man!


3/4" MDF is correct.

Look at this website to see if you can find what they are selling locally at a home depot. Don't just buy any random insulation as it won't work. Acoustic Insulation - Order Online, Ships UPS

Line all of the walls except for the baffle. If those specific products cannot be found, buy this:

Acoustic Foam 2-1/2" x 24" x 18" UL 94 260-515

Here's your frequency response, with the acoustic material on the walls.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got TerryM's box shipped out. One more IDQ12 box to carpet and ship, and I can start working on more recent orders.


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## SmittyEisenhower (Nov 8, 2012)

I will be interested in one in the future Xtreme. I PM'd you but never heard back. I just want a little more information on one.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

SmittyEisenhower said:


> I will be interested in one in the future Xtreme. I PM'd you but never heard back. I just want a little more information on one.


Hey, sorry about that. I found your PM and replied to it.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Look at this website to see if you can find what they are selling locally at a home depot. Don't just buy any random insulation as it won't work. Acoustic Insulation - Order Online, Ships UPS


This is good advice! I have a 1/2 bag of Roxul Safe'n'Sound leftover from insulating the wall between my laundry room and TV room in the basement. According to Roxul's website, this is the same stuff ATS is selling at HUGE markups... basically mineral wool at 2.5 lbs/sqft:

Roxul Safe'n'Sound

The link also shows it's acoutic absorbtion properties... nice even performance at 250 Hz and above. With my divider wall insulated the TV room is much quieter, and the "weak link" for sound transmission is now the hollow core door leading into the laundry room.

I was planning to use this stuff in audio projects anyway, but until now I didn't realise it was a reccomended material for the purpose! HD Canada sells it by the bag for $38... that's 12 pieces 16x48x3" thick, vs 6 pieces 24x48x2" thick for $36 at ATS. It pays to investigate:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/roxul-safensound-for-wood-studs-16-in-on-centre/972187


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## edro (Apr 18, 2012)

So most of the stuff has come in (but still in boxes) and I'm probably going to get started on my project next weekend. I've done a bit of searching and reading on the stereo upgrade threads & I've got at least one question in preparation, with the PAC AA-GM44 I'll be running to the (5 channel) amp in the trunk, will I need to run speaker wire back to the front speakers or is there some magic that the PAC does that will keep me from having to do that? 
And I'll be heading to HomeDepo to to see if they cary Roxul here in KY..
Thanks!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

edro said:


> So most of the stuff has come in (but still in boxes) and I'm probably going to get started on my project next weekend. I've done a bit of searching and reading on the stereo upgrade threads & I've got at least one question in preparation, with the PAC AA-GM44 I'll be running to the (5 channel) amp in the trunk, will I need to run speaker wire back to the front speakers or is there some magic that the PAC does that will keep me from having to do that?
> And I'll be heading to HomeDepo to to see if they cary Roxul here in KY..
> Thanks!


You'll need to run new speaker wire to the doors and tweeter pods.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Initial post updated to reflect pricing for baffles and sub boxes. Sub box prices went up due to an increase in tooling and materials costs on my end. This does not affect orders that have already been placed.


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## jhockey81 (Jun 7, 2011)

Hey man,
Looking to hook up my sub in my cruze. It is an Alpine type R 10inch. The amp it is connected to is a Kenwood KAC-9104d. 

Subwoofer Specs
Qes: 0.53
Qms: 8.7
Fs: 29hz
Vas: 26L (0.92 ft3)
Sd: 332 cm2
Xmax: 20mm
RMS Power handling: 600/1800w

I would love to put this sub in the drivers side rear corner of the trunk, in somewhat of a custom shaped box to fit the area. Here is a picture of the area, and another sort of how I imagine the sub fitting in there. Let me know if you think it is possible/reasonable. My primary goal of the box is to maintain trunk space by efficiently using the corner yet still maintaining exceptional sound quality/style. I mostly listen to dubstep/house/edm music. 

Thanks a ton


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jhockey81 said:


> Hey man,
> Looking to hook up my sub in my cruze. It is an Alpine type R 10inch. The amp it is connected to is a Kenwood KAC-9104d.
> 
> Subwoofer Specs
> ...


You'll need about 0.80-0.85 cubic feet gross volume for that. Sure, it's possible, but not easy to do with MDF. I would just go with a standard box and put it somewhere else in your trunk. Your only real option otherwise is to get a fiberglass box that's made to fit in that corner, and that isn't going to be cheap.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

IDQ12 box for apr1209 just got done...


















If anyone is interested in having me build a box, please note that there will be some delay. I recently had many orders come in and will be tied up. So far, here's what will be ahead of you:

ShoelessJake: baffles
crzeco12: IDQ12 box & baffles
beld2478: Dayton HF10 box
Zerosink: Dual TB 8" box & baffles
Joerg P: TB 8" custom fit corner box for a Honda CRZ

That's 4 boxes and 3 sets of baffles. It will be a busy weekend for me...


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## terrym (Jun 16, 2012)

I am VERY happy with the enclosure XtremeRev built for me. It is solid (and HEAVY!). If I tried to build one myself it would look like a birdhouse constructed by a 5 year old as a kindergarten project. On a bad day. And no self respecting bird would live in it. Which would be OK, because it would have been a sub enclosure, not a birdhouse. But you get the point.

If you need one of these, I would certainly recommend that you contact Professor X. He will take care of you!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

terrym said:


> I am VERY happy with the enclosure XtremeRev built for me. It is solid (and HEAVY!). If I tried to build one myself it would look like a birdhouse constructed by a 5 year old as a kindergarten project. On a bad day. And no self respecting bird would live in it. Which would be OK, because it would have been a sub enclosure, not a birdhouse. But you get the point.
> 
> If you need one of these, I would certainly recommend that you contact Professor X. He will take care of you!


Thanks for the review! I'm very glad you like it. Do you have any pictures with the sub installed?


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## terrym (Jun 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Thanks for the review! I'm very glad you like it. Do you have any pictures with the sub installed?


No. :uhh:

I have been purchasing components for my system upgrade, but I probably won't install anything until Spring. I'll use the excuse that plastic parts are less flexible/more brittle in the cold. That sounds better than saying I have no desire to do anything optional/elective that will expose me and my tender body parts to winter temperatures.

I still need to pick up sound deadening materials, and wiring. I will also need to order the advanced plug-in for the mini-DSP (I forget what it's called, and I'm not going to look it up right now). When I ordered mine I bought the standard equalizer plug-in (again, whatever it's called). Plus I've ordered some subs for my rear doors (as you know, X).

Anyway, I have my 12" IDQ sub, and my enclosure, but they haven't met each other yet. The sub is a box in the basement, but the empty enclosure is sitting in my bedroom, so I see it every day. It is nice to look at it and think that in the not too distant future, I won't be looking at it, but I will HEAR it from my trunk. And probably feel it, too, every now and then when I get in the mood to crank it up. 

Hopefully I will have everything installed before the Spring '13 Lordstown meet. I'll be able to listen to it on the way there and demo it as well, God willing.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

terrym said:


> No. :uhh:
> 
> I have been purchasing components for my system upgrade, but I probably won't install anything until Spring. I'll use the excuse that plastic parts are less flexible/more brittle in the cold. That sounds better than saying I have no desire to do anything optional/elective that will expose me and my tender body parts to winter temperatures.
> 
> ...


Don't feel too bad, lol. I was sitting on the parts for my own Cruze for just under a year before they got installed. I actually had the parts and was planning on upgrading my 95 Regal, but ended up buying the Cruze and deciding to put it in that car instead. 

Plastic is indeed more brittle in the cold, and easier to crack, and you'll be pulling up quite a few trim panels to run the wiring on both sides of the car. Good call waiting until the weather gets better. It helps to have a garage, but I understand that not everyone does.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Hey XR, I'm curious about your thoughts on the Aura NS8:

http://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/ns8-385-4a.pdf

This is the driver Madisound had on clearance a while back.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Hey XR, I'm curious about your thoughts on the Aura NS8:
> 
> http://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/ns8-385-4a.pdf
> 
> This is the driver Madisound had on clearance a while back.


It's a nice woofer. I was heavily considering using it as a front door speaker but there just isn't room, at least not without some considerable cutting. I would not use it as a subwoofer though, unless you got it really cheap and had multiples of them. Might look nice in a vented box that way.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would not use it as a subwoofer though, unless you got it really cheap and had multiples of them. Might look nice in a vented box that way.


I bought a case of 8 of them for $17.50/ea 

I hadn't considered using them as a car sub until recently... I just build a home sub with one and I'm REALLY impressed with it. I stuck it in .65 cuft @ 30 Hz 20% Roxul S&S fill and it's more efficient, better sounding and plays lower than my Energy ESW-V8 home sub that, until now, I had been very pleased with for my computer audio. I haven't pushed it hard yet, but up to about 1mm excursion it sounds VERY tight. It has that effortless kind of sound where the bass drum keeps every ounce of impact and clarity right through the (very detailed) bass guitar, and it keeps going down and down with authority until well into the 20's (falls off steeply below 26 Hz). I'm not sure how that will hold up at higher levels, but so far I'm very pleased, especially given the price... for less than $20 I couldn't conceivably ask for more.

I originally did buy these to use two of them in the doors of my Corvette, an application that I'm pretty excited about having used this one crossed over at 120 Hz and loving it. The spec sheet claims THD at -40 db or better all the way down to ~50 Hz. I can't help thinking that a pair of these would be great in about 1 cuft @ 30 Hz in car.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I can run a model for some of these if you want. The limited xmax is why you'll want it ported and why they aren't the best for subwoofer duty. At that price though, it's worth a try.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## Jnoobs (Nov 22, 2012)

PM sent to you extreme!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I can run a model for some of these if you want.


Go ahead if you're curious, but I'm not about to move on these as in car subs for right now. I was more interested in what you thought of them from a specs standpoint since they sound really good (to me anyway). I think a pair of these in my 'Vette doors will absolutely rock if I can do a decent job of getting them in there.

Yeah, 5mm Xmax and 100W RMS power handling aren't great attributes for SPL in car audio, but for modest listening levels I can vouch for them. Then again, WinISD is telling me good things about two of these in 0.8 cuft @ 30 Hz with a 200W signal...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

They will work well in the doors of your Vette, but you will need a high pass filter on them. That's really the only requirement I'd say you have.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Well, if and when I get hooked on the MiniDSP (likely right after doing my Cruze system), that high pass filter won't be a problem!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Time for a status update!

*In progress: *
crzeco12's IDQ12 box - 1/2 done

*Completed:*
Zerosink's baffles
crzeco12's baffles

*Shipping out today or tomorrow:*
ShoelessJake's baffles
apr1209's IDQ12 box and baffles
terrym's 6.5" subwoofers and baffles

*Not yet started:*
beld2478's Dayton HF10 box
Zerosink's Dual 8" TB box
Joerg P's Single 8" TB box


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

crzeco12's IDQ12 box and ID CTX baffles are done!










This should ship out in the next couple of days.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

I finally finished the box for the 
SSA Icon 15". Now just waiting on the sub, in the middle pic the painting isnt done.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

eagle27212 said:


> I finally finished the box for the SSA Icon 15".


That looks like a HUGE box! What's the total volume of that beast?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> I finally finished the box for the
> SSA Icon 15". Now just waiting on the sub, in the middle pic the painting isnt done.
> View attachment 9584
> View attachment 9585
> View attachment 9586


A little something I learned while building home theater speakers out of MDF is that MDF absorbs moisture like crazy. It's why you need to wear a mask when cutting MDF, and why your hands will dry out and your skin on your knuckles will start looking chapped and cracked over time. It's also why you need to seal all surfaces of MDF before attempting to paint, because the MDF will just keep absorbing. The easiest way to seal MDF is to brush over it with a 50/50 mixture of wood glue and water, and do a light sanding afterward to flatten it out. It's far cheaper and less toxic than fiberglass resin, and achieves the same results. I use it on the baffles I make for people to give them some protection from moisture in the doors. This might also show you why I always upholster or carpet my boxes instead of painting them, lol.

You cut the circles out of the bracing a bit low, lol, but it will still help strengthen the box decently well. Overall, not bad at all. A few more boxes and you'll be able to get some truly professional results. 

Good work.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> That looks like a HUGE box! What's the total volume of that beast?


Between 5.1 and 5.3 cubic feet. From my PM to him:



> _3.875" (3-7/8") wide x 11" tall, and 31" long. Naturally, you will need to make a bend in order to make the port work. _
> 
> _The port itself will displace around .85-.90 cubic feet, and you need 4 cubic feet for the sub itself, so including the driver displacement and port wall displacement, build the box to a total of 5.1-5.3 cubic feet._


That is, assuming he used the specs I recommended and not something else. 

eagle: what port dimensions did you end up with?


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

The box gross vol. is 5.19 after the bracing, sub and port it 4.0 give or take. the whole project from the start was difficult. i dont have a horizontial saw so i have lowes do the big cuts and when i get home i do the finishing touches. well the guy at lowes cut my top two and bottom piece 29.785X 29.8 instead of 30X30 then the side walls all got cut at 11.1875. It all worked out after alot of sanding and short on one piece then long on the other the box volume still came out very close. The port is right under four inchs by 11.1875 by 28.75 after i sanded and routed the piece. The bracing was f%$#ed up, i wasnt going to route the top,baffle so i could add the decorative piece. Well my retard self routed the wrong side so the bottom then became the top. i was not happy, u cant see it n the pictures but at the corner where the port opens in the box i add a piece to round it and make a smooth flow. Also after messing up the braces and top i added a 15X2 piece, rounded the edges, to the new bottom for extra support. I can't wait till the sub gets here. 
I do wear a resiporator at all times and tried using the paint to seal it, but now your glue and water mix is in my furture builds.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

what do you mean i cut the circles low in the braces. i cou;ldnt make my mind up how to cut the braces and almost went with a soild divider with the middle cut out leaving two inchs all around the box.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> what do you mean i cut the circles low in the braces. i cou;ldnt make my mind up how to cut the braces and almost went with a soild divider with the middle cut out leaving two inchs all around the box.


Well, it looks like you carved arches into the bracing that weren't necessary. I doubt the motor is wide enough to need arches that deep. You could have left more material there to add some more strength to the box. It's not a huge deal, but something to do differently next time. 

Paint will never seal MDF unless you care to sit there and wait for several layers. Some people prefer Shellax, but wood glue and water does just as well for a fraction of the price. You can get some pretty impressive results if you take your time.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

I finished the painting i used polyurethane over the paint, one coat of primer four coats of black and four to five coats of red. I brush some acrylic paint on the edges of the box after the first coat to get the mdf to soak up a good bit and let the next coats lay out smooth. i sanded in between coats, the box may not look like it but its built strong and air tight the paint is something i need to practice with. and in the furrtuure ill try ur glue and water mix. The red mist on the black was on purpose but the amount of mist i got in some spots was not. i tried to just mist it lightly over the whole box. 
All in all for only building two boxesthey come out well. i sold the first box for $175, the guy offered it, i hadnt even put it for sale yet, and im building three more starting after xmas. I appreiate your help and thanks.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

I was wondering, i want to change out my door speakers and want to know what speakers you recomend, i want it to be clear and smooth blending nice with the icon. Ill get an amp to so your advice and reccommendations are appreaicated. I have 3" speakers in the console, in each door there is a 6X9 spacer filled with a 5 1/4" and a 1" tweeter. In the rear deck i have two 6X9 holes. also do i need to get highs and mids or is there a speaker that does well with both.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> I was wondering, i want to change out my door speakers and want to know what speakers you recomend, i want it to be clear and smooth blending nice with the icon. Ill get an amp to so your advice and reccommendations are appreaicated. I have 3" speakers in the console, in each door there is a 6X9 spacer filled with a 5 1/4" and a 1" tweeter. In the rear deck i have two 6X9 holes. also do i need to get highs and mids or is there a speaker that does well with both.


Can you get me some pictures of those speaker locations? What are the dimensions you have to work with, including depth?


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

Its really hard to find info on the dimensions of the speaker locations and id have to remove the doors to get to them, ill work on it but its going to take some time. 
i finally got the icon and im really happy. I dont know y the guy from ssa said to tune the box at 32 cause i tuned it to 30 and it can still get lower. you were right i shouldve made port longer but im very happy and i havent even played louder than half way trying to break them in. A guy locally wants me to build him a dual 15 enclosure with two ports and the guts of the box are going to take time 10-12 hours(estimate), he already bought a design and the mdf. he wants to only pay 100 i said closer to 175, 200. anywayss im asking your advice if someone gives you the wood and design for a dual 15 enclosure, each corner wedged and three port walls for each port, plus a divder. what would be a fair price he wants the box left wood no carpet or anything. i realize this isnt alot of info and i dont do this for a living but i also dont want to lost on this. im hoping this will help get my name out. ive built one box for a person so far and they gave me an xtra 50 cause of its quaility. the cosmedics i need to learn and work on and even though ill always learn as i go, i am decent at wood work. ive built furniture and other thing since i was a teen. thank you for your help man you have helped me find a new love.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm glad you're happy with the box. 

If the guy provides you the MDF, you should charge at least $200 for it. As you have clearly seen, it's a lot of work. If I were to build this box including carpeting and MDF, I'd charge at least $350 for it without thinking twice.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status update:

*In progress: *
beld2478's Dayton HF 10 box
Zerosink's Dual 8" TB box

*Not yet started:*
spry's Single 8" TB box
Joerg P's Single 8" TB box

To anyone who made an order, I apologize for the delay. I trust that you will remain understanding as this has been a busy last couple of months with the death of my father in law, leaving me with critical things that need attending to. I will not rush anything I make for anyone as I want to make sure I take the time to do it well and pay the same close attention to detail that I have in the past.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

I put a set of the cwm6kit in the front doors and the other set of cwm6kits with two American Bass sq6cb in this box i made. in the box is two crossovers and ploy-fill.


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## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

1. Fi SP4 15"
2.
Fs: 27.6 Hz | 27.9 HzRe: 0.65 Ohms/coil | 1.27 Ohms/coilQms: 6.56 | 6.45Qes: .52 | .52Qts: .48 | .48Mms: 434g | 424gCms: 0.77mm/N | 0.77mm/NSd: 810cm^2 | 810cm^2Vas: 70.4 l | 70.4 lSpl: 86.4dB 1W/1m | 86.5dB 1W/1mBl: 13.7 N/A | 19.1 N/AXmax: 33mm | 33mmRms: 3000W | 3000WSealed box: 2-3.5cuft | 2-3.5 cuftPorted box: 3-5cuft | 3-5cuftSub OD: 15.625” | 15.625”Cut ID: 14.125” | 14.125”Mounting depth: 11.250” | 11.250”Displacement: 0.21cuft | 0.21cuft
3.Seal off the trunk, port on drivers side, subwoofer on the passenger side.4.Crescendo BC3500D
5.Hip hop, rap, rock, country, decaf
6.I am looking to have at least a good amount of trunk space left, and I am looking for a box design to play the lows extremely well.
I noticed that you are a very knowledgeable man with great amount of talent. I am in no hurry to have your feedback, I still need to purchase all of the items I need, so take your time, and sorry to hear about what happened.
Thank you.


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## PBRent (Feb 27, 2013)

Hey man! I've kinda already got an idea of what I wanted to do. I wanted do build a ported box tuned around 28Hz, but maybe you will tell me I should do something different after I answer these few questions.

1. Make/Model of Subwoofer 
Hifonics BRZ15D4 (15")

2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters (Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling)
Qes: 0.58
Qms: 3.5
Fs: 21Hz
Vas: 200L
Sd: 0.08sqM
Xmax: 15.5mm
RMS: 600W (I'm pushing 500W to it)

3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub 
Plan on making a rear-firing box. Want the back of the box to be up against the rear seats inside the trunk, perhaps even have a slanted back to the box.

4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier 
Kenwood KAC-8105D (1000W max, 500W RMS @2 ohms)

5. Types of music you primarily listen to
Rap/Hip-Hop, Electronic/Dubstep/Trap/House/EDM/etc., music with heavy bass in the 25Hz-45Hz range

6. Primary goal for performance (Sound quality, SPL, best use of a box you already own, smallest box possible, etc.)
The box can be as big as is necessary, pure SPL for longer and heavier bass notes (rap&electronic bass) from around 25Hz-42Hz.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

trevor_geiger said:


> 1. Fi SP4 15"
> 2.
> Fs: 27.6 Hz | 27.9 HzRe: 0.65 Ohms/coil | 1.27 Ohms/coilQms: 6.56 | 6.45Qes: .52 | .52Qts: .48 | .48Mms: 434g | 424gCms: 0.77mm/N | 0.77mm/NSd: 810cm^2 | 810cm^2Vas: 70.4 l | 70.4 lSpl: 86.4dB 1W/1m | 86.5dB 1W/1mBl: 13.7 N/A | 19.1 N/AXmax: 33mm | 33mmRms: 3000W | 3000WSealed box: 2-3.5cuft | 2-3.5 cuftPorted box: 3-5cuft | 3-5cuftSub OD: 15.625” | 15.625”Cut ID: 14.125” | 14.125”Mounting depth: 11.250” | 11.250”Displacement: 0.21cuft | 0.21cuft
> 3.Seal off the trunk, port on drivers side, subwoofer on the passenger side.4.Crescendo BC3500D
> ...


Generally speaking, you shouldn't expecting a vented SPL-oriented 15" sub to leave you much trunk space. That's the nature of the beast. 

Here's what I would do with this sub. 

3.3 cubic feet net volume. 
0.21 cubic feet sub displacement. 

Use three 3" double flared (aka aero) ports at 30" in length each. You will basically need to use the full length of a 3" Precision Port in addition to a second tube. You'll need to order these parts:

3x http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/flares/ports/vents/3flare-complete-kit/3x
3x The Madisound Speaker Store
3x The Madisound Speaker Store

Box will need to have an internal width of at least 33" to accommodate port length, and will need to fire to the side. 0.43 cubic feet will need to be accounted for due to port displacement. 

Total gross volume for the box will be ~3.94 cubic feet, with a minimum width of 34". If you're really in a bind, you can get away with a 29" port instead and reduce the box width by 1". You'll want at least 3" from the end of the inner flare to the box side wall. 

Line all of the walls (except for the baffle - the plane on which the sub mounts to) with 2.5" thick acoustic foam. This is important!
Acoustic Foam 2-1/2" x 24" x 18" UL 94 260-515

You'll have to determine how many of those sheets you need. 

Set the subsonic/high pass filter to 21hz. This is important! I would highly recommend a double thick baffle, using the second layer as a flush mount. Internal bracing is also highly recommended at this power level. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

PBRent said:


> Hey man! I've kinda already got an idea of what I wanted to do. I wanted do build a ported box tuned around 28Hz, but maybe you will tell me I should do something different after I answer these few questions.
> 
> 1. Make/Model of Subwoofer
> Hifonics BRZ15D4 (15")
> ...


Well, if you insist on using this sub, here's how to get the most out of it.

4.0 cubic feet net volume
Assume 0.2 cubic feet subwoofer displacement

Use two 3" double flared ports at 18" in length. Basically, buy two of these:
The Madisound Speaker Store

Ports will displace 0.29 cubic feet. Total gross box volume needed will be ~4.49 cubic feet. 

Set the subsonic filter to 25hz. 

Line all of the walls except for the baffle (the plane onto which the sub mounts) with this foam:
Acoustic Foam 2-1/2" x 24" x 18" UL 94 260-515

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Is anyone here interested in a box that would fit the "spare tire" cavity in the Eco's trunk? I'll start work on one within the next week or two. You could probably fit two 10" shallow mount subs in it.


I would love a box to fit the eco cavity, I do not have the subs or amp to give info, I'll get them after the box. Just let me know what I need to do to get this deal rolling.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ahiru said:


> I would love a box to fit the eco cavity, I do not have the subs or amp to give info, I'll get them after the box. Just let me know what I need to do to get this deal rolling.


There are only one or two subs that I would actually be able to use in such a box. I'm swamped with orders right now so it would be a month or two before I'd be able to make this, but expect to pay $200 for the box and $125 for the subwoofer.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status update:

*Completed and ready to ship:*
beld2478's Dayton HF 10 box + Baffles

*In progress: *
Zerosink's Dual 8" TB box + Baffles


Thanks everyone for your patience with me these past few months. I don't like making excuses, but the death of my father in law was a big reason why I haven't been able to get to some of this, as I live with his family and I've basically had to take over the business he ran including work my own job, which has been requiring overtime for 4.5 weeks of the past 6 weeks. Things have finally been settling down and I've been able to get back to building some of these. Again, thank you for your patience. 

beld2478: as promised, here are the pictures I had on my phone of your box:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

beld2478's sub box and baffles shipped out today!

Zerosink's baffles are done, and the sub box is now in progress. It feels good to be catching up on orders.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Zerosink's box is almost done. Just need to glue the baffle on the box, and carpet it. I normally don't provide status updates for boxes, but I'm pretty excited about this one. This one uses two of the 8" Tang Band Neodymium subwoofers:

Tang Band W8-1363SB 8" Subwoofer 264-833

Gross volume is 0.73 cubic feet, measuring 18" height x 11.5" width x 10.5" depth, with an additional 1/2" layer as a flush mount baffle (1.25" total baffle thickness). The box would stand tall and be attached to the back of the support beam using velcro. It would require very little space (0.73 cubic feet gross - that's TINY) and provide excellent bass extension. 

I have 4 of these subs on-hand so I will be mounting them in the box and having a listen before shipping the box out.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Time for another update!

Completed and ready to ship:
Zerosink's Dual TB 8" Box and baffles

In progress: 
Spry's Single TB 8" Box and baffles

In queue:
Dieselard's baffles
Nosmonster's IDQ12 box and baffles
Shoelessjake's baffles


Some pictures of Zerosink's Dual TB 8" box and baffles. This box will sit vertically and will reach the very top of the support brace that goes across the width of the car behind the rear seats. This is the same box that will be used in my Dual 8" SQ kit.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got a few more pictures of the Dual 8" box before I boxed it up to ship out.



















Here's where this sub will go:


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Ooh that looks nice like that and minimal trunk used.

What's the difference in 2 8's vs 1 10/12?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Mick said:


> Ooh that looks nice like that and minimal trunk used.
> 
> What's the difference in 2 8's vs 1 10/12?


The minimal trunk usage was the whole point of the design. Your actual footprint on the floor of the trunk is only 11.5" Width x 10.5" Depth. Using a custom box designed specifically for the Cruze allows you to take full advantage of the 18" of height available. The idea behind this is that with any other box, you wouldn't use the space above the sub anyway. That, and this combo has relatively low power requirements, allowing you to use a fairly inexpensive and compact amplifier like the Massive Audio N2, which can be mounted practically anywhere, including on the small space right behind the box. 










Those two subs will thrive on the 400W RMS provided by the N2. 

A single "small box" 10" or 12" sub like an Image Dynamics IDQ10 or IDQ12 V3 would require more space, thus taking up more of a footprint in the trunk. In addition, they would require a more powerful amplifier, and I charge about $30 more for a box for one of those. These 2 8" subs will produce output levels just under (8% less to be exact) that of a decent 12" sub like an Alpine 12" Type-R, while using far less space.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> These 2 8" subs will produce output levels just under (8% less to be exact) that of a decent 12" sub like an Alpine 12" Type-R, while using far less space.


These TB 8's are in a sealed enclosure by the look of it, correct? What volume are you giving each driver? Are you going to audition this sub before shipping it out?

I have one of these and was planning to build a tube enclosure with a passive radiator, nice and light weight for my Corvette. I had never considered using it sealed.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> These TB 8's are in a sealed enclosure by the look of it, correct? What volume are you giving each driver? Are you going to audition this sub before shipping it out?
> 
> I have one of these and was planning to build a tube enclosure with a passive radiator, nice and light weight for my Corvette. I had never considered using it sealed.


I couldn't audition the sub in the Dual TB 8" box, simply because I wouldn't be able to get them back out without butchering up the fiberglass fill from the terminal opening in the back. They're a pretty tight press fit. 

Sealed models very well. In fact, Matt Borgardt (formerly lead engineer of Image Dynamics) took the liberty of modeling it for me, sealed and vented.

This is an in-cab response for the Cruze. Blue is sealed, red is vented. 










Keep in mind that a 3db increase represents a doubling in output. Gross sealed volume is ~0.35 cubic feet per sub. The sub has a very powerful motor, so it manages a very low Qts of 0.55 even in that small of a box. With a good amount of fiberglass fill, it will have very impressive bass extension. 

I have to build a single 8" box soon since someone placed an order for one so I'll get you some listening impressions soon, but based on the numbers, this will work excellently. Just keep in mind that it's only a single 8" sub, not a 10" or 12", and that it's designed for musical low frequency reinforcement, and you'll be very happy with it. You might even discover what I refer to when I talk about "transparency" in subwoofers. It should blend very nicely. I'd recommend crossing it at 90hz.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

I like that idea and small amp. 
Was never a huge bass guy so don't want anything extreme in my ride.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Was that model done specifically for the Cruze, or just a generic transfer function applied? Looks pretty nice actually!



XtremeRevolution said:


> Just keep in mind that it's only a single 8" sub, not a 10" or 12", and that it's designed for musical low frequency reinforcement, and you'll be very happy with it.


That's exactly the plan for the Vette. I'm hoping to use the Aura NS8's previously discussed in the doors which should do a pretty decent job down to 50Hz or so, the TB was intended to reinforce below that point. Obviouosly the frequency is just a WAG right now and will be determined upon actually listening to it.

Nice tip on that tiny amp - not much space to spare so that might work well.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Was that model done specifically for the Cruze, or just a generic transfer function applied? Looks pretty nice actually!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm actually not sure if the model was done specifically for the Cruze or not, but it's very close to the model I put together using my own software and I did give Matt the dimensions for the Cruze.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## 4piecekit (Mar 17, 2011)

That dual 8" box looks great in that space. I really like the mounting location of the amp as well. I have a 12 in a box that's not even designed for that particular sub. My amp is just sitting in the trunk behind the box. It looks awful. I have the Alpine 8" in the ported box that I picked up last year when Best Buy had it super cheap. I keep thinking on using that but know it won't give the same effect as the 12 but will be better SQ-wise. That tiny amp pictured looks perfect as well. I love browsing this thread just to see what you've been busy building.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got started on the first 8" SQ kit since someone ordered one a few weeks ago:


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

I have a lincoln Ls with a short trunk entrance. i have 34" width then a hump 2" high, so i can add 5" on each of the sides of the 34" but over the hump, like adding two boxes to the big one. the heigth is hard cause getting the box in the trunk the space is short. in the rear of the trunk it 14" in the front by the lip its 16.65". the depth i wanted to keep small as possible but i planned on 18" with an xtra baffle so 18.75. i was hoping you could tell me the optimal size enclosure to fit an icon 15 on 1000.1 @ 1ohm. i have a 4^3' box @32hz right now, but want to redo the trunk. im worried that building a new box smaller will decrease the output. ssa's website says the icon is bested ported at 3.5^'. i was hoiping maybe you could tell me what the optimal air space and port freceny is for the ssa icon 15" and maybe design me a box. I have drawn a plan for a 13.5" heigth then after 8" in depth it steps up to 16.5" for another 10" so total depth 18". the width is 32.5 and im build the port on one of the sides above the hump, internalyl 8.5"X4"X14". thanks again.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

ssa icon 15"
FS.26.8hz, Qms.6.6, Qes..49, Qts..45, Mms. 268g, Sd.810cm, Vas120.1l, Bl. 11.7/17.2, Spl.88.5, Xmax. 21, RMS. 1250, Displacment..19.
amp is hifonics glx1000.1 @ 1ohms.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Give me a bit of time and I'll get you a box designed. I'm going to be a bit busy this weekend.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Spry's 8" SQ Box is done.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

In the trunk:


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## 4piecekit (Mar 17, 2011)

That box looks really good. Would an Alpine R 8" SBR-S83V sound better in an enclosed box like that one or the small ported box that a few of us bought from Best Buy last year?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

4piecekit said:


> That box looks really good. Would an Alpine R 8" SBR-S83V sound better in an enclosed box like that one or the small ported box that a few of us bought from Best Buy last year?


I haven't heard the vented box, so I don't know. I do know that one guy on here bought a box I made him for an Alpine Type-R 8" and he loved it. That was a sealed box, in 0.65 cubic feet IIRC. I personally prefer that sub sealed over ported, but it depends on what kind of music you listen to.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status update for those who are waiting on orders. 

Completed:
Spry's 8" SQ kit

In Progress:
Spry's baffles
Dieselard's baffles
Nosmonster's baffles
Shoelessjakes's baffles
Ecodave's baffles

Not yet started:
Nosmonster's IDQ12 box
Ecodave's TC Epic 10 box


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

So what are your impressions of the 8" SQ kit with the TB?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> So what are your impressions of the 8" SQ kit with the TB?


The car blocks out a lot of the sound, which is something I knew about beforehand. However, it's easier to hear a 15" sub (840 square cm of cone area) inside the trunk than it is an 8" sub (220 square cm of cone area). That said, the sound is very transparent. At first you will wonder where the bass is, but then you'll realize that you hear the bass; you just don't hear the sub. It's a wonderful thing to hear when you realize that your music now sounds complete without your sub being boomy or overpowering the rest of the frequencies. As musical reinforcement, it does a fine job, but it will definitely throw you off if you're expecting a bunch of boom like you may have heard in a previous prefabbed ported box. It is not an SPL box. 

It has a pretty good punch with classic rock. I enjoyed listening to it with a variety of music, and I even removed one of the layers of fiberglass as the bottom end was slightly too thick. I wouldn't say it's a sub you can abuse with high levels of Rap or Dubstep, but it holds its own and digs deeper than any 8" sub I've ever heard before. I played a couple of dubstep tracks and it hit the lowest notes without showing any signs that it was running out of air. Some sealed boxes that are too small for the subs, or some high tuned ported boxes will simply die off once you start hitting very low bass notes, but this one doesn't. 

Excursion is a thing to behold. It moves a LOT of air for an 8" sub, and it takes a lot more power than the specs would indicate. Granted, I don't know how much power it was actually getting, but I was using my Alpine MRP-M1000 to power it, which provides 600W RMS @ 4 ohms. 

I would not use this for home theater, and here's why. The high excursion allows it to play very low frequencies and play them with authority, but in order to provide that much power, it needs to dissipate heat. In order to do this, it has a very effective voice coil venting design. It is however, perhaps a tad too effective, as you can slightly hear some of the vent noise through the cone if the sub is facing you directly at very high volumes. It's not something you'll hear in the trunk, and not something you'll hear if the sub is not facing you directly, but it's there nonetheless. I think it's an acceptable compromise given the capability of the subwoofer, and it is well suited for mobile audio use. 

The bottom end was strong enough to where I am fairly certain that one could build a slightly smaller box. My enclosure was 0.354 cubic feet gross internal, and I could shave 0.5-1.0 inches off of the depth and still have a very balanced design. That would give me a gross volume of 0.332-0.31 cubic feet gross. That motor is powerful enough to easily overcome the internal pressure of the box. I don't know if I'd attempt to go lower than 0.30 cubic feet gross. 

All in all, I think it is an excellent subwoofer, but once I sell the 3 remaining that I have, I will be switching over to the ferrite version. 

Tang Band W8-1363SBF 8" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker 264-920

It's the same cone, but with a ferrite motor instead of a neodymium motor. The end result is a very marginal decrease in motor strength, a 1db decrease in efficiency, and 4 pounds increased weight per subwoofer. However, the price reduction is ~$35, which will make my kits notably more affordable without sacrificing much in the way of quality or performance. A weaker motor generally requires a slightly larger enclosure, but my modeling so far shows that I will be able to use the same enclosures with excellent results.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The car blocks out a lot of the sound, which is something I knew about beforehand. However, it's easier to hear a 15" sub (840 square cm of cone area) inside the trunk than it is an 8" sub (220 square cm of cone area).


I've wondered about that... the seats in this car are pretty solid.

Have you considered mounting subs to the rear deck and firing them through the 6x9 openings? A small sub box like this might actually fit up there and take up no floor space, and it wouldn't lose any spl to the trunk. Cars that did not come with the 6x9's would need to have the rear deck opened up to allow the sound through...

The ferrite version looks really good, but it currently costs almost $30 more than I paid for my neo version before the price skyrocketed! If I wasn't crippled with that information they would seem a better value... you just have to step back and realise they are still great woofers, regardless.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I've wondered about that... the seats in this car are pretty solid.
> 
> Have you considered mounting subs to the rear deck and firing them through the 6x9 openings? A small sub box like this might actually fit up there and take up no floor space, and it wouldn't lose any spl to the trunk. Cars that did not come with the 6x9's would need to have the rear deck opened up to allow the sound through...
> 
> The ferrite version looks really good, but it currently costs almost $30 more than I paid for my neo version before the price skyrocketed! If I wasn't crippled with that information they would seem a better value... you just have to step back and realise they are still great woofers, regardless.


Yeah, the ferrite version really is a great value. I got the neo versions for sale, which is why I am selling the few that I have, but after that, I'd like to be able to sell these kits at a better value. 

A box might fit up there, but as you said, the rear deck pad would have to be modified, and that's not something that everyone would feel comfortable doing.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status update:
*
Completed:*
Spry's 8" SQ kit & baffles - Will ship this week
Dieselard's baffles - Will ship this week
Nosmonster's baffles - Will ship with IDQ12 box
Shoelessjakes's baffles - Will ship this week
Ecodave's baffles - Will ship with TC Epic 10 box

*In Progress:*
Nosmonster's IDQ12 box

*Not yet started:*
Ecodave's TC Epic 10 box

I have 2 more boxes to add that I'm waiting for payment on, so if you need me to do any work for you, you better get it in quick because my queue will fill up again and you'll be waiting 2-3 months.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status update:

*Shipped out today:*
Spry's 8" SQ kit & baffles
Dieselard's baffles
Shoelessjakes's baffles

*Completed:*
Nosmonster's baffles - Will ship with IDQ12 box
Ecodave's baffles - Will ship with TC Epic 10 box

*In Progress:*
Nosmonster's IDQ12 box - Panels are all cut. Assembly will start tonight. 

*Not yet started:*
Ecodave's TC Epic 10 box


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## JstCruzn (Mar 19, 2013)

Not sure if someone asked this already, but do you design and make custom boxes for other cars and trucks as well?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

JstCruzn said:


> Not sure if someone asked this already, but do you design and make custom boxes for other cars and trucks as well?


Yes.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

can you recommend a good 3.5" speaker or tweeter. I have 3.5" in my center console and want to add to my front stage, I wanted full range more than tweet. right now the rear deck is over powering.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> can you recommend a good 3.5" speaker or tweeter. I have 3.5" in my center console and want to add to my front stage, I wanted full range more than tweet. right now the rear deck is over powering.


What's the depth limitation? Is that 3.5" as a total width? How much are you looking to spend? There are some very, very nice drivers I can show you.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

I was hoping to stay around fifty dollars. when looking up the size for that spot on the car it says 3.5, it looks like 2.75 but ill measure it. no matter what im going to get a good pair of 3.5"s n build something for them if I have to. I really need more mids to highs up front. I feel I have enough tweets. ill take the stocks out and measure but I think im just going to buy some good speaker and customize them into the car. If spending a little more makes a huge difference then Im open but if not 50 is what I have.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> I was hoping to stay around fifty dollars. when looking up the size for that spot on the car it says 3.5, it looks like 2.75 but ill measure it. no matter what im going to get a good pair of 3.5"s n build something for them if I have to. I really need more mids to highs up front. I feel I have enough tweets. ill take the stocks out and measure but I think im just going to buy some good speaker and customize them into the car. If spending a little more makes a huge difference then Im open but if not 50 is what I have.


Get me the measurements first and we'll go from there. I still need to know your available depth, unless depth is a non-issue.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

the speaker is 2.75" and the depth is roughly 2.25 im going to build an adapter plate to fit the 3.5 so if the depth is longer its ok.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> the speaker is 2.75" and the depth is roughly 2.25 im going to build an adapter plate to fit the 3.5 so if the depth is longer its ok.


Just one, or two?

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

a pair of them


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> a pair of them


Let's go from smallest to largest. Note, the size I'm posting is not the total frame diameter. Check the exact specs to find the total frame diameter. A truncated or pincushion frame might be easier to fit. 

2"
Tang Band W2-803SM 2" Extended Range Speaker Driver 264-805
The Madisound Speaker Store

2.5"
Peerless 830984 2-1/2" Full Range Woofer 264-1048
The Madisound Speaker Store

3"
Tang Band W3-926SD 3" Poly Cone Neodymium Full Range Driver 264-815
Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone Driver 264-844


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

thanks for your help. ive been looking at them and have some question. i may purchase 4 and wire them in seris / parallel so i can wire them to a channel on my four channel amp 80.4. if i don't and buy two, running them on the headunit, they wouldn't get the rms. does it make that much of a difference with this low of power. i wanted to know what you thought about theseDayton Audio ND91-8 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 8 290-226 or Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm 295-380 or Tang Band W3-881SI 3" Speaker 299-113 Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm 295-380 i really like the bamboo paper ones your recommend just don't know how to wire them, put on headunit each on a channel @8ohms or together on one channel for @ 4ohms? or get four?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

For the drivers I listed, remember to look at efficiency. Your increase in cone area will negate the increase in impedance. 

The ND91 is overpriced. The Aura NS3 from Madisound is basically the same driver for 1/3 the price. It's a great driver, but only if you need to dig below 100hz. You sacrifice efficiency for that extension. Not a bad full range driver though. 

The RS75 has a bit of a ragged top end. Not a horrible driver though, but not one of my favorites. Very small driver. 

That TangBand speaker is ok. Decent deal for the price considering it's a buyout sale. It has been available for several months now but I passed on it as I had no purpose for it. It would be good if you plan on applying a low pass filter on it. I would not run it full range.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks im going to get the Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone Driver 264-844 I just don't know if I should wire them to the head unit one on each channel, the hU puts out 17rms at 4ohms but will work with 8ohms, or together with two other tweeters on one channel of my 80.4.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

the more I look at it I may get two of The Madisound Speaker Store and two of The Madisound Speaker Store put the 2.5s in the stock location maybe without any mods and the 2"s in the front pillars in the windshield. if I did that woiuld it be ok to wire eac pair to 8ohms them wire the pairs together to get 4ohms.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> Thanks im going to get the Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone Driver 264-844 I just don't know if I should wire them to the head unit one on each channel, the hU puts out 17rms at 4ohms but will work with 8ohms, or together with two other tweeters on one channel of my 80.4.





eagle27212 said:


> the more I look at it I may get two of The Madisound Speaker Store and two of The Madisound Speaker Store put the 2.5s in the stock location maybe without any mods and the 2"s in the front pillars in the windshield. if I did that woiuld it be ok to wire eac pair to 8ohms them wire the pairs together to get 4ohms.


They won't require a lot of power to get the volumes you need. You only really need a lot of power for bass. Tweeters for example won't ever use more than 5-8W of power.

Don't wire two different drivers together. You won't like the results. If anything, get 4 of the same kind. Those Aura drivers are pretty incredible btw. A lot of these are excellent drivers. 

It's really up to you. I don't think you'll have a problem giving them enough power at 8 ohms.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

that s good ill hook up one speaker per channel on the headunit. all the other speakers are on the amp[


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

what is the difference if any between Peerless 830984 2-1/2" Full Range Woofer 264-1048 and The Madisound Speaker Store


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> what is the difference if any between Peerless 830984 2-1/2" Full Range Woofer 264-1048 and The Madisound Speaker Store


Moving mass, cone area, excursion, frequency response. They're slightly different, but very similar. The PE one has more cone area and excursion, but the Madisound one has better off-axis response and seems to have a lower mounting depth. 

How low do you want them to play?

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

mid range 350hz n up maybe Im not to experience with the numbers. ihave tweets now that are very bright and loud but the mids lack bad in the front. Im doing this to try and even out the front and back. when the music is at lower to medium volume all the sound is behind me. I cant adjust the fader or balance cause the front door and one pair of speakers in the back deck are on the same channels. im goin to get an eq to increase the line voltage and help control the sound, but that's a month or two away. im going to go with the 2.5" I guess cause I can fitting them in the console easily and in the front panels but I was originally going to go with one pair of 3.5 or 4" and make a plate for them. ??


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> mid range 350hz n up maybe Im not to experience with the numbers. ihave tweets now that are very bright and loud but the mids lack bad in the front. Im doing this to try and even out the front and back. when the music is at lower to medium volume all the sound is behind me. I cant adjust the fader or balance cause the front door and one pair of speakers in the back deck are on the same channels. im goin to get an eq to increase the line voltage and help control the sound, but that's a month or two away. im going to go with the 2.5" I guess cause I can fitting them in the console easily and in the front panels but I was originally going to go with one pair of 3.5 or 4" and make a plate for them. ??


Turn down your rears. Rear fill is extremely overrated. In fact, I have no rear speakers and the only person it bothers is my rear passengers, which are there only 1% of the time I drivr my car. 

Wire them in stereo to the head unit; one per channel. Don't wire them together.

The 2.5" should be fine. Your call. I know those bamboo cones are spoken highly of.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

thanks. I wondering if you had a chance to see if the ssa icon 15 would be better in a 3.5^ or 4.0^


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> thanks. I wondering if you had a chance to see if the ssa icon 15 would be better in a 3.5^ or 4.0^


No, I completely missed it. Can you post the t/s specs again?

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## timknwrestlr112 (Mar 16, 2013)

1. Alpin Type R / SWR 12D4 (2 of them)2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters Qes-0.52, Qms-6.04, Fs-28Hz, Vas-46L, Sd-479cm2 Xmax-20mm and RMS- 1,000 watts 3. I plan on puting the subs in the bck part of my trunk by the seats and i am thinking of facing them inside the car. 4. Alpine MRX-M100 (2of them)5. Country, Rock, Hip Hop, Dubstep, pretty much anything 6. SPL and want it to look good not like a plain box


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

ssa icon 15"
FS.26.8hz, Qms.6.6, Qes..49, Qts..45, Mms. 268g, Sd.810cm, Vas120.1l, Bl. 11.7/17.2, Spl.88.5, Xmax. 21, RMS. 1250, Displacment..19.
amp is hifonics glx1000.1 @ 1ohms. I have a 4^ @32hz right now but want to change the trunk and the box will be 3.5^ @ 32 unless it will giv me lose


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

timknwrestlr112 said:


> 1. Alpin Type R / SWR 12D4 (2 of them)2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters Qes-0.52, Qms-6.04, Fs-28Hz, Vas-46L, Sd-479cm2 Xmax-20mm and RMS- 1,000 watts 3. I plan on puting the subs in the bck part of my trunk by the seats and i am thinking of facing them inside the car. 4. Alpine MRX-M100 (2of them)5. Country, Rock, Hip Hop, Dubstep, pretty much anything 6. SPL and want it to look good not like a plain box


Best option I was able to model is a sealed box. I can build you one for $235 plus shipping. Gross internal volume would be 2.75 cubic feet with 100% light fiberglass fill, and would work very well for your listening style. 

I don't know what you mean by it looking good and not a plain box though. Look through this thread and check out the boxes I've built. They're 3/4" MDF with heavy bracing and a double thick/flush mount baffle. Makes them look VERY nice when the subs are mounted. I can build the box to any dimension you want specific for the Cruze or any other car. It's all custom work. 

Let me know what you think.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> ssa icon 15"
> FS.26.8hz, Qms.6.6, Qes..49, Qts..45, Mms. 268g, Sd.810cm, Vas120.1l, Bl. 11.7/17.2, Spl.88.5, Xmax. 21, RMS. 1250, Displacment..19.
> amp is hifonics glx1000.1 @ 1ohms. I have a 4^ @32hz right now but want to change the trunk and the box will be 3.5^ @ 32 unless it will giv me lose


Assuming those are net volumes (not factoring in port or sub displacement), reducing the box size would push the tuning peak a few hz higher and would result in a ~2db loss in volume. Not a whole lot of change aside from that. If you want to be as loud as possible, keep it in 4 cubic feet. If you want more sound quality, add some fiberglass insulation inside the box.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status update:


*Completed:*
Nosmonster's baffles - Will ship with IDQ12 box
Ecodave's baffles - Will ship with TC Epic 10 box

*In Progress:*
Nosmonster's IDQ12 box - Expected completion is by Saturday night.

*In queue:*
Ecodave's TC Sounds Epic 10" box
javery's baffles
SkullCruzeRS's front & rear baffles


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## timknwrestlr112 (Mar 16, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Best option I was able to model is a sealed box. I can build you one for $235 plus shipping. Gross internal volume would be 2.75 cubic feet with 100% light fiberglass fill, and would work very well for your listening style.
> 
> 
> 
> I was actually looking to do a ported box i just like the way ported boxes sound compared to sealed. And do you know exactly how wide the trunk is in the cruze. And by not like a normal box i was talking about the mounting of the speaker being flushed. thank you if you could let me know if you can come up with a good sounding ported box let me know please.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

timknwrestlr112 said:


> I was actually looking to do a ported box i just like the way ported boxes sound compared to sealed. And do you know exactly how wide the trunk is in the cruze. And by not like a normal box i was talking about the mounting of the speaker being flushed. thank you if you could let me know if you can come up with a good sounding ported box let me know please.


I know that the opening in the trunk will not get a box wider than 33" inches wide if the box is ~15-16" tall. If you have a box that's 17" tall, it can't be any wider than 31". The actual width inside the trunk I believe is 38 inches from wall to wall in the back. It might be 39 inches, but it's been a while since I measured it. The width of the opening through the pass-through with the seats down is just a hair over 36" wide. The widest and tallest box you could put in the trunk if you want to take advantage of the full width would be 36" wide and 16.5" tall, at just about any depth. You could stretch that some if you didn't mind un-bolting the seat backs to have more vertical height to fit a box in. 

The reason why I recommended a sealed box is due to the frequency response. It's not easy to make these subs sound good in a ported box. Having said that, you did say you wanted SPL, so I did some design work and I think I designed box that you'd get a lot of SPL out of while still sound good. 

The challenge here is making the ports big enough to reduce vent velocity and chuffing at high outputs, while controlling the impedance spike and producing high levels of output without turning into a boomy one note wonder of a fart box that can only produce one narrow frequency range. I have to do all that while tuning low enough to allow the subs to dig deep without needing extremely long ports. 

Here's what I originally modeled in the sealed box:









And here's the new ported box I designed:









Total volume is 4.15 cubic feet. Box uses two 4" double flared aero ports or one 6" double flared aero port (to be determined based on final dimensions). 

Cost to build this box would be $350 plus shipping. Box includes 4-point bracing, double thick baffle with a precision flush mount (you'll literally pop the subs into the flush mount), two 4" double flared round aero ports, 2 pounds of fiberglass insulation (part of the design), internal wiring, and the same pro audio cabinet fabric I use in all of my boxes. 

The final dimensions will depend on whether you want to fit the box in through the trunk opening or through the back seats.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hey everyone! Just wanted to make an announcement. April is Autism Awareness Month, and in honor of that, I will be doing something special. For every order that is placed in the month of April, I will make a donation to the Autism Research Institute. 

For baffles or 8" sub kits, I will donate $5 per order
For standard rate sub boxes or boxes up to $300, I will donate $10 per box
For boxes over $300, I will donate $15 per box

This will come out of what I charge for the boxes, and isn't an additional charge that I will be tacking on. I will work as hard as I can to fulfill orders placed this month as soon as possible, but if I do get a very large volume of orders, please understand that it may take me 2-3 months to complete yours. I will do my best to get them out as soon as possible.


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## timknwrestlr112 (Mar 16, 2013)

is there a way that you could give me the box design so i could build it myself i dont have the money to pay 350 for the box? whichever way would be the easiest way to get the longest possible box in there


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## SkullCruzeRS (Nov 3, 2011)

Looks like I ordered at the right time  Get some awesome baffles which help out a great cause.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

timknwrestlr112 said:


> is there a way that you could give me the box design so i could build it myself i dont have the money to pay 350 for the box? whichever way would be the easiest way to get the longest possible box in there


Well it won't exactly be cheap for you to build the box to the design spec. I won't give you dimensions or a cut sheet, as that would require me to go out into my garage and build a mock-up frame so I can figure out if those maximum dimensions would actually fit. I don't have that kind of time, so you're on your own there. 

I can give you the basic specs so you can figure it out on your own.

Two 4" aero ports at 17" in length each. 
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/flares/ports/vents/4flare-complete-kit/

4.15 cubic feet gross box volume

3 pounds of fiberglass fill

Double thick baffle with a flush mount. 

Just so you know what to expect when building this box yourself, you'll be spending about $22.50 on cabinet carpet, $28 on ports, $5.50 for a terminal cup, $19 on shipping (if buying the last few from parts-express.com), $10 on spray adhesive, $34 on a sheet of 3/4" MDF, and unless you have some on hand, the cheapest roll of fiberglass insulation you can find is $9. That totals $128 plus whatever your local tax is. That is, assuming you have a router with a circle jig, carbide bit, clamps, a good saw, and a crown stapler (for holding the carpet in around the flush mount). You'll need to decide dimensions based on which way you want the ports to fire. If you fire them forward, the box has to be deep enough for the ports to clear at least 4" away from the back wall. If you make them fire to the side, the ports and their inner flares have to clear the subs, and the exits on the ports need to be at least 4" away from the car's side wall.


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## smitty63 (Mar 3, 2013)

Thank you for all of info and knowledge XtremeRevolution, I have been reading for weeks now and have learned quite a bit about SQ. Being like my friends growing up I was into SPL and never really thought about sound quality to much. I own 2- Dayton Audio TIT280C-4 10" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm that I was going to use for a project a few years back but I ended up going in another direction. Do you have any experience with this speaker and if so would you recommend them in a dual box? If so what amp would you recommend?


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## Nosmonster (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm gonna' chime in also and say:
We're lucky to have you on this board, XtremeRevolution. Of all the places you could be; of all the cars you could've picked to lead you to another web board; you chose CruzeTalk.

We're fortunate to benefit from your knowledge. My dad once told me: "Knowledge is a gift. To say thank you for that gift, share that knowledge with others."

Thank you, XtremeRevolution. You rock!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

smitty63 said:


> Thank you for all of info and knowledge XtremeRevolution, I have been reading for weeks now and have learned quite a bit about SQ. Being like my friends growing up I was into SPL and never really thought about sound quality to much. I own 2- Dayton Audio TIT280C-4 10" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm that I was going to use for a project a few years back but I ended up going in another direction. Do you have any experience with this speaker and if so would you recommend them in a dual box? If so what amp would you recommend?


Moving mass is a tad high for a sub with that power handling and cone area, but it's not _too _bad. Sure beats the likes of a JL W6 though. A dual sealed sub box will work well, but I'd have to model them to see what size. I'm guessing somewhere around 2.2 cubic feet just looking at the numbers. As far as an amplifier, snag one of these up while they're still available:

Boston Acoustics GT-2300 1400 Watts GT Reference Series 2-Channel Amplifier 

You aren't going to find that much reference-level quality for that cheap once they sell out, since they are now discontinued and Boston Acoustics is getting out of car audio.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nosmonster said:


> I'm gonna' chime in also and say:
> We're lucky to have you on this board, XtremeRevolution. Of all the places you could be; of all the cars you could've picked to lead you to another web board; you chose CruzeTalk.
> 
> We're fortunate to benefit from your knowledge. My dad once told me: "Knowledge is a gift. To say thank you for that gift, share that knowledge with others."
> ...


Thanks! The encouragement is much appreciated. I try to share my knowledge and teach other people to do the same. What sense is there in keeping it all to yourself?


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

I have the ssa icon 15, if I went with a sealed box from the the 4^ @32hz, would the output lost be great or would I gain on the upper hz and the quality would make up for the loss in output. I could do a better looking trunk with a sealed box but I don't want to loss the output. the sub sounds great now and I probably shouldn't fool with it but I want the customize the trunk and gain back some trunk space. thanks for all your advice theres not many people that would help strangers for free or give the quality of advice either.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

eagle27212 said:


> I have the ssa icon 15, if I went with a sealed box from the the 4^ @32hz, would the output lost be great or would I gain on the upper hz and the quality would make up for the loss in output. I could do a better looking trunk with a sealed box but I don't want to loss the output. the sub sounds great now and I probably shouldn't fool with it but I want the customize the trunk and gain back some trunk space. thanks for all your advice theres not many people that would help strangers for free or give the quality of advice either.


You'll lose quite a bit of bottom end, but that's the nature of a ported box. What you have now is a "loud as can be" sub in a box that's designed to annihilate your face, but not to reproduce accurate bass. If you go to a sealed box, it will sound 10x better, but you won't have the same output. 

This is why I always tell people; cone area is king. Two 15" subs in a sealed box > one 15" sub in a ported box.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Update: 

Nosmonster's box is nearly done. The box is built, and just needs to be carpeted. Sorry about the delays. I was expecting to have this done by Saturday, but work required 8 hours of overtime on Saturday so that didn't happen as planned.


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## Nosmonster (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm sure it'll be awesome. No rush. I still haven't ordered cabling and sound deadening.

Thanks for the update!


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

just out of curiosity are you using dado cuts?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> just out of curiosity are you using dado cuts?


Nope. No need for it. Clamped butt joints with MDF and Titebond wood glue (or other good glues) are stronger than the MDF itself. Dado cuts would just increase the time it takes me to build boxes without adding any benefit.

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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

but what about a sub that ways 76lbs?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> but what about a sub that ways 76lbs?


Still won't do anything. Let me explain why. I've tested this. 

Adequately glue two straight-cut pieces of MDF at a 90-degree angle and clamp them down. Wait 24 hours. Then, go back and try to separate them. It is impossible to cleanly separate the two pieces. You will rip off a bunch of MDF from one piece or the other. A dado joint will not add a consequential amount of rigidity beyond that point. A 75 pound sub will place its weight on the baffle; not on the walls, so for something like that, I might use a triple thick baffle so you have more material to screw into, and perhaps even machine screws with screw-in wood nut inserts if I'm really concerned about the sub's mounting rigidity.










The weight will only really affect the mounting of the baffle, which is also reinforced with my 4-point bracing. Long story short, that sub isn't going anywhere, and the pressure created inside the enclosure will not be enough to separate the wood joint or break the MDF itself. Anything beyond a simple glued butt joint with MDF with regard to subwoofer enclosures is simply excessive.


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## Lucky Jimmy95 (Apr 8, 2013)

1. Fi BL 15"
2. (Qes 0.28. Qms 5.21. Fs 33.6 Hz. Vas 78.9. Sd 810 cm^2. Xmax 18 mm. and RMS Power handling 2000 watts RMS 
3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub. As far back as possible, most likely with the sub facing the seats.
4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier. Soundstream Tarantula TX1.2000D
5. Types of music you primarily listen to. Rap, but I like tight punchy bass in rock and metal.
6. Primary goal for performance (Sound quality, SPL, best use of a box you already own, smallest box possible, etc.) I want a box to fit in my trunk that allows room for cargo while still providing enough box for the sub.


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## eagle27212 (Oct 23, 2012)

if im designing an enclosure, how do I determine the optimnal port volume, width, length, etc. I know how to find port dimensions based on the volume of enclosure plus width and height of port but I want to figure out what design will give the me most output. Ive download a program and to be honest its confusing. based on the subs info I enter it comes out with a box tunned at 26Hz. My goal is to compete in local events and build a box that, while sounding good, will give me the most output. I don't want a one note box or muddy but would like to see high numbers on the spl meter. my trunk offers challenges to this process but ive come up with a box design that I think will do well I just need to figure out the port. thanks again for your help.


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## varaski (Apr 19, 2013)

2010 Dodge Challenger
1.2 12" audioque 2.5
2.qes 0.612
Qms 6.945
Fs 36hz
Has 24.160
RMS 600
SD is not found on spec list
Xmas is not found on spec list

3.in trunk. Behind rear seats.

4. Audioque qi-1200d

5. All music. But really enjoy low bass...like on boz scaggs- thanks to you.

6. I'd enjoy sq. 1ohm load. a high output enclosure with chest thumping bass.


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## varaski (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm also local... south side of Chicago and I work in the south burbs. If you like to see the trunk and subwoofers...its not a problem for me.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hey guys, hang in there. I'll get to this thread next week. I've been extremely busy the last few days and will be out of town until Sunday night.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Now that the Lordstown meet is out of the way, I have time to get back to the wood shop. 

*Shipping today:*
Nosmonster's IDQ12 box + baffles

*In progress:*
EcoDave's TC Epic 10 box (panels are cut)

*In queue:*
javery's front baffles
SkullCruzeRS's front & rear baffles
negativepitch's IDQ12 box
smitty63's baffles


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## Batesy (May 18, 2013)

Looking into a sub box from you, just wondering about shipping to Adelaide, South Australia prices as well.

Below is the basic for the sub part, still going to have another amp, or maybe a different amp to power the front two speakers, as well as the sub.

1. Make/Model of Subwoofer: TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer
2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters (Qes:0.33, Qms:7.50 , Fs:24.3 Hz , Vas:1.75 ft.³ , Sd:??, Xmax:18.1 mm , and RMS Power handling:500 Watts) 
3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub: Center behind seats
4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier: Boston Acoustics GT-2200 900W
5. Types of music you primarily listen to: Post 1999 Music. (VA - Chillstep Dreams Vol. 02 - YouTube, Hip hop etc..
6. Primary goal for performance: Sound quality


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Batesy said:


> Looking into a sub box from you, just wondering about shipping to Adelaide, South Australia prices as well.
> 
> Below is the basic for the sub part, still going to have another amp, or maybe a different amp to power the front two speakers, as well as the sub.
> 
> ...


I can help you design one, but shipping would be cost-prohibitive. You would be better off finding a shop in your area and paying them to make it for you.


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## Batesy (May 18, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I can help you design one, but shipping would be cost-prohibitive. You would be better off finding a shop in your area and paying them to make it for you.


I know a guy that's been doing it for 20~ years who can accommodate the job. With my rather limited knowledge in this aspect, should I ask the guy what materials and then respond here for you to see if they're any good?


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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

I know you have been busy so I figured I'd get some info from you and get in line. I'm looking to get rid of my 12" L7 and put one 8" sundown in a ported box. This little 8 is dvc 2ohm 500watt rms. I plan on running it @ 1ohm with a mb quart fx1.1000. I would like a tall box that can be bolted to the rear deck and floor that will take up as little space as possible. Let me know a price and any design ideas, I'm in no rush, this is a 6 month + away project. 

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ahiru said:


> I know you have been busy so I figured I'd get some info from you and get in line. I'm looking to get rid of my 12" L7 and put one 8" sundown in a ported box. This little 8 is dvc 2ohm 500watt rms. I plan on running it @ 1ohm with a mb quart fx1.1000. I would like a tall box that can be bolted to the rear deck and floor that will take up as little space as possible. Let me know a price and any design ideas, I'm in no rush, this is a 6 month + away project.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Is this the SA-8?


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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

Yes, SA-8. I just saw the post about fiberglass box for the corner of the trunk...makes me wonder how much sound quality i would have to give up for that type of box. 
the SA-8 needs 0.28 ft^3 and 6 5/8 mounting depth for a sealed box. Man thats a small amount of space, the mounting depth is my only concern, but if its possible, I'd do a fiberglass box. if its not then ported wood box it is! 0.50 -0.75 ft^3 @ 35hz.


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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

is there enough room in a cruze to mount 2 sa-8's vertically? I know an 18 will fit in the trunk, i just don't know the math on the boxes. I'm thinking two 8's to replace my solobaric 12 now. But I want to save as much trunk space as i can. oh and i am thinking sealed to make it even smaller. I mostly listen to Rock/Alternative so sealed will prob be my best bet.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ahiru said:


> I know you have been busy so I figured I'd get some info from you and get in line. I'm looking to get rid of my 12" L7 and put one 8" sundown in a ported box. This little 8 is dvc 2ohm 500watt rms. I plan on running it @ 1ohm with a mb quart fx1.1000. I would like a tall box that can be bolted to the rear deck and floor that will take up as little space as possible. Let me know a price and any design ideas, I'm in no rush, this is a 6 month + away project.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


You don't need to bolt the box anywhere. With an 18" tall box, all you have to do is staple some industrial strength velcro (you can buy it at Home Depot) to the box, and attach the other end to the sheet metal arc underneath the rear support beam. Press the box corner up against that, and it's not going anywhere. Ever. It worked for my 15" sub very well no matter how fast I went through corners. 



Ahiru said:


> Yes, SA-8. I just saw the post about fiberglass box for the corner of the trunk...makes me wonder how much sound quality i would have to give up for that type of box.
> the SA-8 needs 0.28 ft^3 and 6 5/8 mounting depth for a sealed box. Man thats a small amount of space, the mounting depth is my only concern, but if its possible, I'd do a fiberglass box. if its not then ported wood box it is! 0.50 -0.75 ft^3 @ 35hz.


You shouldn't be concerned with sound quality if you want to use an SA-8. It is a purpose-built SPL sub, and a one note wonder at that. It is **** near impossible to make that sub sound decent in a ported box. The tuning spike is ridiculous. It has far too little cone area for its size due to the massive surround to be any good as an SQ sub, given other options. It will not fit in the fiberglass box that I will be offering here shortly as the box has a maximum depth of 5". 



Ahiru said:


> is there enough room in a cruze to mount 2 sa-8's vertically? I know an 18 will fit in the trunk, i just don't know the math on the boxes. I'm thinking two 8's to replace my solobaric 12 now. But I want to save as much trunk space as i can. oh and i am thinking sealed to make it even smaller. I mostly listen to Rock/Alternative so sealed will prob be my best bet.


There is enough room to mount two 8" subs vertically. I have in fact built a box in that exact alignment before. Sealed will indeed make it smaller, but I will go back to the point that the SA-8 is not an SQ sub and you would be better served with a sub that would actually sound good on Rock/Alternative. The SA-8 is not that sub. It is more of a novelty sub because of the massive motor and ported output capabilities. I did a lot of box models for this sub for people on a different forum a couple of years back and it is a one note wonder in a ported box and it will never reach its potential in a sealed box. 

At $150 per, you're looking at $300 for subwoofers. That's a LOT of money for something that will have about as much cone area as a single IDQ10, which you can get for about $100 less. 

That said, I can definitely agree with the space-saving design of having two 8" subs stacked vertically going up to the top of the trunk, so if you still wanted to do that, here's a sub that would actually sound good in a sealed box. 

TC Sounds Epic 8" DVC Subwoofer 293-657

You could stuff those in 0.6 cubic feet vertically and you'd have a pretty nice system set up. 

Of course, you could also buy 4 of these and fire them to the front and the side to have as much cone area as a single 15" sub. If I had ~$300 to spend on subs and needed as much output in as little space as possible, this would probably be at the top of my list. 
Tang Band W8-740P 8" Subwoofer 264-854


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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

the epics are a nice woofer, i have a 1000 watt mono block amp 1 ohm stable, i need to find 2 good 8" subs and get it to the proper ohm/wattage.
the FX1.1000 is 4 ohms - 250 2 ohms - 500 1 ohm - 1000

I was underpowering my solobaric by 500 watts and that sub was still way too loud. wasnt a clean sound just loud, but wow can it go low! I'm leaning to your ideas on cleaner sound. i just need to fit it to what i have now. but 2 vert stacked 8's is the way i'd like to go. gonna need them dual 4 ohm coils to reach 1 ohm or find smaller powered subs to hit 500 @ 2 ohms. Any more ideas or suggestions would be great.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ahiru said:


> the epics are a nice woofer, i have a 1000 watt mono block amp 1 ohm stable, i need to find 2 good 8" subs and get it to the proper ohm/wattage.
> the FX1.1000 is 4 ohms - 250 2 ohms - 500 1 ohm - 1000
> 
> I was underpowering my solobaric by 500 watts and that sub was still way too loud. wasnt a clean sound just loud, but wow can it go low! I'm leaning to your ideas on cleaner sound. i just need to fit it to what i have now. but 2 vert stacked 8's is the way i'd like to go. gonna need them dual 4 ohm coils to reach 1 ohm or find smaller powered subs to hit 500 @ 2 ohms. Any more ideas or suggestions would be great.


Honestly, I think the subs are far more important than the amp. You could sell the amp and get one that provides 1000W @ 2 ohms (like an MRP-M1000), but you can't find too many alternatives to those TC Sounds subs.


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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

Alright, you have me convinced, put me in line for a box. I'm looking at 6 months to finish, so this should work out perfectly. I'm gonna go with the 2 epic 8's. And I'll shop for a new amp. 

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

Hey Andrei, any new updates or pics? 
if not, you can post a rant about how crazy life and work has been, lol


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Yeah I want to see the side mount!

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

EcoDave said:


> Hey Andrei, any new updates or pics?
> if not, you can post a rant about how crazy life and work has been, lol


Still in progress. Haven't had time to take pictures. Not done yet, but it's coming along. 



Mick said:


> Yeah I want to see the side mount!
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I got in touch with the guy and he says I should have one within the next 2 weeks. As soon as I have one, I'll post a review on it.


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## javery (Dec 5, 2012)

Any updates on progress?



XtremeRevolution said:


> Now that the Lordstown meet is out of the way, I have time to get back to the wood shop.
> 
> *Shipping today:*
> Nosmonster's IDQ12 box + baffles
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status Update:

*Completed, boxed, and ready to ship:*
smitty63's baffles: sorry shipping has taken so long; I haven't had any time to get to FedEx.

*In progress:*
Ecodave's Epic 10 box: glued up the walls, bracing is next. 
javery's baffles: baffles are cut, glued, and need to be coated for moisture resistance
SkullCruzeRS's baffles: baffles are cut, glued, and need to be coated for moisture resistance
*
In queue:*
negativepitch's IDQ12 Box




Progress has been slow but steady. I appreciate everyone's patience with this. I expect to have all baffles shipped out on Friday since I have Thursday off and no plans till the evening, and expect to have negativepitch's IDQ12 box panels cut this weekend.


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## javery (Dec 5, 2012)

Thank you for the update I am excited to hear these silver flutes. I have not ordered the mini dsp yet but was able to pick up the PAC. Will I be able to hook up an amp and speakers while I wait for DSP funds? I was going to get one of those hiphonics amps that are on sale right now which would you recommend? Thank you for your help and patience with all of my questions. Ohh yeah, I have the vifa tweets and the silver flutes.


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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

I solved my amp problem for my) L7 and my future two 8" epics! I just obtained a:


US AMPS*MERLIN2 CLASS D MD-2D **
RMS 550W x 1 @ 4ohms
RMS 1000W x 1 @ 2ohms
RMS 1500W x 1 @ 1ohm * *
Low-Pass High-Pass : 40HZ-250HZ -24db/Oct
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20KHz +/- 1.0 dB

This amp is the answer I have been searching for.! 

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## Wyre (Jul 23, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Mineral wool is glued in, and baffles are on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











X you do such an amazing job... I am still researching what I want.

Keep looking at a couple of 8" subs to take up as little space as possible, but still have a nice deep rich sound. I care more about SQ than SPL although I do occasionally listen to dubsteps more chill version known as chillstep.

Give a song called 'Evil Beauty' by Blackmill a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAFjgpuWREM

I still want a strong bass response but I want it to be musical. I have a couple of amps... but they are old school analog amplifiers and I am afraid that they will overwhelm my electrical system. I have been looking at Massive Audio... they have a small digital 5 channel amp that is far more efficient and actually more powerful than my two old analog amps.

What would your suggestion be for this... I am still very open to just about anything... But, I use my trunk a lot and I need all of this to take up as little space as possible.


----------



## Dragonsys (May 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I got in touch with the guy and he says I should have one within the next 2 weeks. As soon as I have one, I'll post a review on it.


Any word on this? I would love to see some pics, or did I miss it somewhere. I'm actually looking at getting a small baby stroller to keep in the car, just so i can clear a subbox. LOL


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dragonsys said:


> Any word on this? I would love to see some pics, or did I miss it somewhere. I'm actually looking at getting a small baby stroller to keep in the car, just so i can clear a subbox. LOL


Soon. Very soon.


----------



## Dragonsys (May 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Soon. Very soon.


Looking very good


----------



## Wyre (Jul 23, 2011)

xtremerevolution said:


> soon. Very soon.


must have!!!!!


----------



## javery (Dec 5, 2012)

XtremeRevolution;
[B said:


> In progress:[/B]
> javery's baffles: baffles are cut, glued, and need to be coated for moisture resistance
> SkullCruzeRS's baffles: baffles are cut, glued, and need to be coated for moisture
> Progress has been slow but steady. I appreciate everyone's patience with this. I expect to have all baffles shipped out on Friday since I have Thursday off and no plans till the evening


Any updates on when these will be shipped?


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

javery said:


> Any updates on when these will be shipped?


This week actually. Everyone's baffles are built, coated, boxed and ready to be dropped off at FedEx. The only challenge is finding some time for me to get to FedEx. 

Dave, I'm almost done with your box. 

Sorry for the delays everyone. I had to put stuff on hold when Justin showed up to have his two 18s installed, and then it got really hot and humid and MDF dust does not play well with that (and glue doesn't dry very quickly either), and on top of all that, work has been pulling me in for overtime almost every Saturday. I haven't forgotten, and I'm still working at these projects whenever I have free time and am not totally exhausted. Believe me guys, if there was a way for me to get all of this done and shipped out, I would have done it. I got that fiberglass box in the mail and haven't even had time to open the box, let alone check out, review it, and figure who will get it first.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Wyre said:


> View attachment 15922
> 
> 
> X you do such an amazing job... I am still researching what I want.
> ...


It really depends on your price point. My two favorite 8" subs are the Alpine 8" Type-R and the TC Sounds Epic 8". Between the two, I prefer the TC sounds sub by a significant margin. 

Massive Audio does make some very efficient amps, and they are CEA rated as well. From my experience though, they don't like being played at low impedance, which is where they make their power. Lots of complaints of heat issues at low impedance. I still prefer Class AB amplification over Class D for my own uses.


----------



## Hyprshart (Jul 30, 2013)

Hey XtremeRevolution  new member, but Ive been on cruze talk for the past couple months. been deciding how to add a sub to my 2013 Eco and all roads lead to you lol. looking to have a design set, and go ahead and have you build it.


1. Make/Model of Subwoofer 
Alpine Type R 12" SWR-1242D

2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters (Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling) 

QES: 0.50 QMS: 7.89 FS: 29Hz VAS: 45L (1.6ft3) SD: 480cm2 XMAX: 18.2mm RMS: 200-500w (will be run at 500w)

3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub 
fitted to the back left corner of the trunk (drivers side, farthest away from the trunk opening, against the rear seats.) either aimed toward the back of the car or possibly toward the center of the trunk (45 degreeish angle) Is this doable? kinda like the idea of how it would look.

4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier 
Alpine MRP-M500 run at 2ohms 500w RMS

5. Types of music you primarily listen to 
Alternative/Rock, usually having a heavier bass line to them.

6. Primary goal for performance (Sound quality, SPL, best use of a box you already own, smallest box possible, etc.) 

Looking to have a nice clean sealed setup that can hit the bass clean, I'm not into volume of the bass, quality is what I'm after. Im hoping to reuse the components from my previous car (03 focus zx3) It was absolutely perfect in a fitted sealed subthump box, clean setup, nice and tight bass. but i had to add a 1" spacer to allow the large basket to fit into the box.

I see that you are busy lately and i am in no hurry, hoping to have a design set and i can place my order with you

Thanks 
Dean


----------



## Ktuntied2 (Aug 3, 2013)

I just purchased a 15" sub and am also extremely interested in one of your boxes.

1. Make/Model of Subwoofer

MTX Audio T815-22 15 inch dual 2 ohm subwoofer

2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters (Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling)

Qes:0.764, Qms:3.768, Fs:32.3 Hz, Vas:57 liters/2.01 Cubic Feet, Sd:804.25cm2, Xmax:16.0mm, RMS:600 Watts

3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub 

As far back as spaciously possible keeping to the left (where my wires come from) I also plan on and have always mounted my amp on the box, if that makes anything different. If that's a bad idea, I enjoy educational lectures as well.

4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier 

Pyramid America PB918: 2 channel 2 ohm 2000 watt amp

5. Types of music you primarily listen to 

I mostly listen to metalcore and heavier rock, with the occasional hip hop song when another system pulls up next to me or when the girlies are in the car. Just about all the songs in my player have bass drops in them as well.

6. Primary goal for performance (Sound quality, SPL, best use of a box you already own, smallest box possible, etc.) 

My main thing is sound quality while still keeping the ability to bass my block around occasionally. I have 2 12" subs in a pre fabbed ported box right now that I'm not too happy with. I haven't looked too far into if the box is too big/small but the quality is surprisingly well for pre fabbed. However I can definitely tell that it's not perfect, which is why I'm coming to you for a box for this current speaker I own, and this thread reeks of perfect. Other than that rant, as long as I can squeeze it in my trunk it seems I'll be happy with whatever you throw at me.

You seem to be a very busy individual and time is not a big factor for me, so whenever you catch up with your previous orders I'd love to hear your idea for this speaker, needless to say I'm extremely excited for it.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hyprshart said:


> Hey XtremeRevolution  new member, but Ive been on cruze talk for the past couple months. been deciding how to add a sub to my 2013 Eco and all roads lead to you lol. looking to have a design set, and go ahead and have you build it.
> 
> 
> 1. Make/Model of Subwoofer
> ...


1.3 cubic feet with light fiberglass fill is what I would do for your listening preferences. I would charge my standard price for a single sub box, plus whatever shipping would be. I usually build my boxes a bit on the tall side to take up less trunk depth space, so you'd be looking at around 17-18" height. If you plan on ever putting in a rear strut tower brace, I would build it to 17" so it would clear the brace. 18" works very well in this car because you can staple a strip of industrial strength velcro to the top rear edge of the box and stick the other side right underneath the rear beam behind the seats and the box never goes anywhere no matter how hard you turn. It's an easy way to secure the box. 

Let me know what you think.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ktuntied2 said:


> I just purchased a 15" sub and am also extremely interested in one of your boxes.
> 
> 1. Make/Model of Subwoofer
> 
> ...


It's generally a bad idea to mount the amp to the sub as it is subjected to more vibrations. I bought a very nice Directed amp from someone who had done that, and it didn't last me more than a month. The adjustment knobs started to get fidgety and eventually just started cutting out randomly and I'd have to wiggle them to make it work again. I don't recommend it. 

For the box, here's what I came up with. 

0.2 cubic feet for displacement
3.1 cubic feet net volume
0.4 cubic feet for port displacement

Total of 3.7 cubic feet for the box internal volume, using two 4" double flared "aero" ports at 25.25" in length each, tuned to a theoretical resonance of 28Hz. Actual tuning peak for this box is right around 29-37Hz. Should be great for loud output. 

Two pounds of fiberglass fill will control internal reflections from harmonic distortion, will tame the impedance peaks, and will make this ported box sound like a sealed box...with a heavy bottom end. Should be just what the doctor ordered. Would be very similar to, but slightly less deep than the box I built for Chris in this thread:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/94-cruze-owner-projects/12030-h3llon3arths-system-build-10.html

Cost would be $320 plus shipping unless you want to come pick it up. Let me know if you need a break-down of the costs.


----------



## Ktuntied2 (Aug 3, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It's generally a bad idea to mount the amp to the sub as it is subjected to more vibrations. I bought a very nice Directed amp from someone who had done that, and it didn't last me more than a month. The adjustment knobs started to get fidgety and eventually just started cutting out randomly and I'd have to wiggle them to make it work again. I don't recommend it.
> 
> For the box, here's what I came up with.
> 
> ...


That's spectacular! That's less than I thought it was going to be. Sign me up good sir, I want it!
On another note, where would be a better place to mount my amp? Directly to the car? all my wires come out of the drivers side of the trunk, if you have a picture that would benefit immensely as well.
Price is not an issue, I see your quote as being far more than fair for me, I had pre-assumed double that actually. All I need to know is final price after shipping, how you want to get paid, when to pay you, and of course payment information so I don't give some random person money for a box you send me.
Last question; how do you suggest mounting a sub this big into a box, with my previous 12's I always used machine screws and t-nuts with a speaker gasket which worked just fine, but this sob is heavy and I want it to sit in there tight.


----------



## Hyprshart (Jul 30, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> 1.3 cubic feet with light fiberglass fill is what I would do for your listening preferences. I would charge my standard price for a single sub box, plus whatever shipping would be. I usually build my boxes a bit on the tall side to take up less trunk depth space, so you'd be looking at around 17-18" height. If you plan on ever putting in a rear strut tower brace, I would build it to 17" so it would clear the brace. 18" works very well in this car because you can staple a strip of industrial strength velcro to the top rear edge of the box and stick the other side right underneath the rear beam behind the seats and the box never goes anywhere no matter how hard you turn. It's an easy way to secure the box.
> 
> Let me know what you think.


sounds great to me, no tower brace in the future so 18" would be fine. just let me know how we can get the ball rolling on this. thanks again

Dean


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I'll send both of you private messages regarding payment in the next couple of days. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## goinovr (May 6, 2013)

What did the internal cubic feet end up being on these? I'm looking at picking up an Arc Audio 10 that performs very well in a .3-.5 cu ft sealed box.



XtremeRevolution said:


> Soon. Very soon.


----------



## billseast (Feb 5, 2013)

.7cu ft. Xtreme is going to start a new thread about the boxes.


goinovr said:


> What did the internal cubic feet end up being on these? I'm looking at picking up an Arc Audio 10 that performs very well in a .3-.5 cu ft sealed box.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

goinovr said:


> What did the internal cubic feet end up being on these? I'm looking at picking up an Arc Audio 10 that performs very well in a .3-.5 cu ft sealed box.


I would love to see a 10" that does well in 0.3 cubic feet. There are very few 10" subs that actually sound good in even 0.5 cubic feet. 

If this is the Arc Audio Arc10, you'll probably want to put it in 0.6-0.7 cubic feet.


----------



## goinovr (May 6, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would love to see a 10" that does well in 0.3 cubic feet. There are very few 10" subs that actually sound good in even 0.5 cubic feet.
> 
> If this is the Arc Audio Arc10, you'll probably want to put it in 0.6-0.7 cubic feet.


Just going off what my car stereo guy was saying. My sealed boxes are typically .7 to 1cu ft so that box would be perfect.


----------



## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Status Update:
> 
> *Completed, boxed, and ready to ship:*
> smitty63's baffles: sorry shipping has taken so long; I haven't had any time to get to FedEx.
> ...


What are the baffles you speak of?


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

goinovr said:


> Just going off what my car stereo guy was saying. My sealed boxes are typically .7 to 1cu ft so that box would be perfect.


Yeah, that box would work very well. 

I play a whole different ball game. I don't go off manufacturer specs or by what someone else said. I model these subwoofers in a given airspace with computer simulation software, and on top of that, I even factor in the cabin gain of the Cruze, which your car guy won't be doing unless he owns and knows how to use LEAP. It is highly unlikely that he has even heard of it, let alone knows how to use it. 



CyclonicWrath said:


> What are the baffles you speak of?


Door speaker adapters that I make. A baffle is defined as the plane onto which a speaker is mounted. The term is often used in home theater speaker design. It's more correct than saying "speaker adapter." 

They are made out of MDF, and coated with a 50/50 mixture of wood glue and water for moisture resistance. I precision route them specific to the cutout of the speaker to be installed. Here's what it looks like:










These give you quite a bit of depth when mounting speakers as well. The adapters are 1.25" thick. 










I charge $65 shipped (to the 48 contiguous states of the US) for a pair of these.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hyprshart said:


> sounds great to me, no tower brace in the future so 18" would be fine. just let me know how we can get the ball rolling on this. thanks again
> 
> Dean


Dean, 

I sent you a private message regarding this. Did you receive it?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would love to see a 10" that does well in 0.3 cubic feet. There are very few 10" subs that actually sound good in even 0.5 cubic feet.


This.

My sub for years was a 10" Boston Acoustics Pro 10.5LF, and the Boston recommended box was 0.5 cuft sealed. The sub hit extremely hard at higher frequencies, it definitely had lots of "snap" and sounded very punchy and tight, but the bottom end below ~45Hz or so was pretty weak in comparison. I wouldn't go as far as to call it boomy as it was a nice sounding sub, but it was definitely strongest above 50Hz.

The fix was to "EQ" it by dialing in a -6db/octave slope above 25Hz on my head unit crossover to "tone down" the higher frequencies while letting the low end play through. Combined with the steeper low pass X-over in my amp set at ~80Hz this setup sounded extremely nice, but the SPL capabilities of the sub were reduced as it was much easier to exceed Xmax at lower frequencies. Two of them running like this in 1.0 cuft would have been just about perfect.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

It goes without saying that you can EQ the **** out of any sub. In fact, if I were to recommend any sub, I would take an SQ sub, throw it in a ported box, and EQ the heck out of the peak. This way, you have linear output with very little excursion as the port controls the sub's movement. Tune low and group delay is not an issue. However, rarely do people have a good EQ for their front sound stage, let alone for the sub. 

A second miniDSP may be in my future as I would LOVE to EQ and time align the two 18" subs in my trunk. The factory deck seems to have a bit of a boost around 50 to artificially add some bass at lower volumes.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> A second miniDSP may be in my future as I would LOVE to EQ and time align the two 18" subs in my trunk. The factory deck seems to have a bit of a boost around 50 to artificially add some bass at lower volumes.


About $90 will take you to the holy grail of ultimate control over that bass-generating powerplant you installed in the back of your vehicle!

That, and maybe sealing off your rear deck...


----------



## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> About $90 will take you to the holy grail of ultimate control over that bass-generating powerplant you installed in the back of your vehicle!
> 
> That, and maybe sealing off your rear deck...


Not to mention that if he does this, it means I'm going to be installing a second DSP as well and sending my the tune file. Great job thought XR, just when I thought I was satisfied with my audio you have to go and make me want to spend more money .


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Just scored a miniDSP and miniDC for $70. 

Looks like I'm tuning the subs.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

You've just committed yourself to lots of tuning and then full reporting to the forum - so nice of you!


----------



## Hyprshart (Jul 30, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Dean,
> 
> I sent you a private message regarding this. Did you receive it?



PM'ed you


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status Update:

Shipped:
- All baffles that were ordered so far
- EcoDave's Ported TC Epic 10 box (FINALLY!)

In Progress:
- negativepitch's IDQ12 box
- Hyprshart's Alpine 12" box

In queue: 
- Ktuntied2's 15" MTX SPL box


----------



## gp07 (Sep 13, 2013)

Hi, i got an Alpine swr-10d4 paired with a Cadence FXA2000.1 amp.
Qes: .49 Qms: 8.65 Fs: 35Hz Vas: 25L Sd: 333cm^2 Xmax: 15mm Rms: 1000
I plan on putting in the back left of the trunk right behind the back seats
i usually listen to hip hop/rap and id like to get really good sound quality with it
I bought a cheap box online and it doesn't sound good so id thought i'd build my
own so i stumbled on this post. It would be great if you could design a box for me


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

gp07 said:


> Hi, i got an Alpine swr-10d4 paired with a Cadence FXA2000.1 amp.
> Qes: .49 Qms: 8.65 Fs: 35Hz Vas: 25L Sd: 333cm^2 Xmax: 15mm Rms: 1000
> I plan on putting in the back left of the trunk right behind the back seats
> i usually listen to hip hop/rap and id like to get really good sound quality with it
> ...


Rap/hip-hop is all synthetic bass, so there won't be such a thing as sound quality. That said, I can make the sub sound as good as possible given those conditions. Just know that it's impossible to make synthetic bass sound good because nobody really knows what it's actually supposed to sound like, and sometimes you can actually make synthetic bass sound worse by playing it through too accurate of a subwoofer because it is so unnatural. 

Are there any space constraints for this box? What kind of tools do you have available?


----------



## gp07 (Sep 13, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Rap/hip-hop is all synthetic bass, so there won't be such a thing as sound quality. That said, I can make the sub sound as good as possible given those conditions. Just know that it's impossible to make synthetic bass sound good because nobody really knows what it's actually supposed to sound like, and sometimes you can actually make synthetic bass sound worse by playing it through too accurate of a subwoofer because it is so unnatural.
> 
> Are there any space constraints for this box? What kind of tools do you have available?


There are no space restraints for this box as long as it fits in my trunk, I have access to a wood shop with tons of tools.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Status Update!

Shipped today:
NegativePitch's IDQ12 Box

In Progress:
Ktuntied2's 15" MTX Box
Hyprshart's 12" Alpine Type-R Box

In Queue:
boats4life's Dual-IDQ12 V2 Box


----------



## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

Really tempted to employ your services, my biggest concern is prematurely making the car into a rattle box. I hate squeaks and rattles.

I really miss having some bass though, the Pioneer system just doesn't cut it.

I mainly listen to Country music so I don't need earth shattering bass, just like to feel it in my seat a bit.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MilTownSHO said:


> Really tempted to employ your services, my biggest concern is prematurely making the car into a rattle box. I hate squeaks and rattles.
> 
> I really miss having some bass though, the Pioneer system just doesn't cut it.
> 
> I mainly listen to Country music so I don't need earth shattering bass, just like to feel it in my seat a bit.


You don't need a big box to do that. Most people fall into the trap of trying to make it louder to get more clarity and punch. What you need to do is go for something more musical, something more accurate and precise. That's what my boxes are designed to do, unless you WANT to get as loud as possible. 

That said, my enclosures aren't cheap, and there's always a line you have to wait in to get one. I have 2 boxes in progress and one that I haven't started yet, not including two pairs of home theater speakers I have to design and build. 

How much output do you really want?


----------



## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You don't need a big box to do that. Most people fall into the trap of trying to make it louder to get more clarity and punch. What you need to do is go for something more musical, something more accurate and precise. That's what my boxes are designed to do, unless you WANT to get as loud as possible.
> 
> That said, my enclosures aren't cheap, and there's always a line you have to wait in to get one. I have 2 boxes in progress and one that I haven't started yet, not including two pairs of home theater speakers I have to design and build.
> 
> How much output do you really want?


I completely agree, I just want some punch as I feel that's what the stock system really lacks, not interested in just being loud. That being said I would want something that appears stock and doesn't eat up my trunk.

I would be interested to come down to IL and build it with you one day if we can figure sometime out and you have some time.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MilTownSHO said:


> I completely agree, I just want some punch as I feel that's what the stock system really lacks, not interested in just being loud. That being said I would want something that appears stock and doesn't eat up my trunk.
> 
> I would be interested to come down to IL and build it with you one day if we can figure sometime out and you have some time.


Let's figure out a sub for you first. What kind of music do you listen to, and what's your budget?

Sent from mobile.


----------



## Hyprshart (Jul 30, 2013)

Lol hyprshaft


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hyprshart said:


> Lol hyprshaft


LOL. Oops, haha. I corrected it.

Hopefully I can get these two boxes shipped out before my son is born, haha. Keep an eye on this thread for updates.


----------



## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Let's figure out a sub for you first. What kind of music do you listen to, and what's your budget?
> 
> Sent from mobile.


I have two 12 inch Audiobahns sitting at home in a ported box that I could reuse but I'm thinking I won't need something that large. I mainly listen to country music.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MilTownSHO said:


> I have two 12 inch Audiobahns sitting at home in a ported box that I could reuse but I'm thinking I won't need something that large. I mainly listen to country music.


Sell them. Box and all. 

Then, let me know what your budget is.

Sent from mobile.


----------



## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Sell them. Box and all.
> 
> Then, let me know what your budget is.
> 
> Sent from mobile.


I'll admit that made me laugh

Budget is not really an issue, I have no problem paying for quality.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MilTownSHO said:


> I'll admit that made me laugh
> 
> Budget is not really an issue, I have no problem paying for quality.


Haha, I'm glad. I meant it to be a bit humorous. 

In that case, the only question will be how loud you want to get. Keeping in mind that the back seats block out quite a bit of sound, I would recommend a single 12" sub that would work in a small enclosure. Here are two options I would recommend:

The TC Sounds Epic 12 works in very small enclosures. Compared to all other "car audio" subs, this is actually an SQ sub. It is on-part with the IDQ12 V3 that is no longer made for sound quality, with a very low moving mass, very high motor strength, and very small enclosure capabilities. From my standards, it is a very solid general-purpose SQ sub. 
TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer 293-650 

The Peerless XXLS 12 is a step up in sound quality. However, it is also more expensive, and won't get quite as loud as the TC sub. It is more efficient though. It requires far less power also.
Peerless 835017 12" Aluminum Cone XXLS Subwoofer 264-1114

I personally love both of them, and they are both worth every dime. You won't find anything in their price point with a car audio label that sounds better.


----------



## Rusty Shackleford (Jan 6, 2013)

I'm looking for a sub recommendation. I showed my uncle some of your build pictures and he feels he can build one if you could provide the specs. 

I've read through a TON of posts but still not sure what sub to get off of your previous recommendations. For $400-500 for the amp and sub what would you buy? . I've seen you recommend these two for example. Benefits of the more expensive 12" over the cheaper 15"? Or is there something else? 

Peerless 835017 12" Aluminum Cone XXLS Subwoofer 264-1114

Peavey 15" Low Rider Subwoofer Speaker Driver 294-303



1. Make/Model of Subwoofer 
Single 12" or 15"

2. Subwoofer's T/S parameters (Qes, Qms, Fs, Vas, Sd, Xmax, and RMS Power handling) 
???

3. Where in the trunk you plan on placing this sub 
I honestly never use my trunk. If I know I'm going to need the space I can remove the box....so whatever is best.

4. Make and model of your subwoofer amplifier 
????

5. Types of music you primarily listen to 
A little bit of everything. Just to list off some artists that I have on my phone:
Billy Joel, Blackmill, Elton John, Eminem, Fall Out Boy, Michael Jackson, Panic at the Disco, Pendulum, Story of the 
Year.

6. Primary goal for performance (Sound quality, SPL, best use of a box you already own, smallest box possible, etc.) 
Sound quality.

'14 Cruze Eco 6MT


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Rusty Shackleford said:


> I'm looking for a sub recommendation. I showed my uncle some of your build pictures and he feels he can build one if you could provide the specs.
> 
> I've read through a TON of posts but still not sure what sub to get off of your previous recommendations. For $400-500 for the amp and sub what would you buy? . I've seen you recommend these two for example. Benefits of the more expensive 12" over the cheaper 15"? Or is there something else?
> 
> ...


How tight are you on space? The Peavey will take up 2x the amount of space. It is an awesome sub, but space will be an issue. 

This will be your amp.

http://www.techronics.com/caraudio_...-GT-Reference-Series-2-Channel-Amplifier.html

Sent from mobile.


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## Rusty Shackleford (Jan 6, 2013)

How big are we talking on the Peavey? Will it fit through the trunk opening? My only other plans for the trunk is another amp for the front stage based off of your V2 SQ thread.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I would go with the 15" if you don't mind the size. You'll need 2 cubic feet of space gross. To take up as little depth as possible, I would go with the following dimensions:

17" Height
26" Width
11" Depth

You'll need a 1/2" sheet of MDF for the flush mount panel, and 3/4" for the rest, bringing your total depth to 11.5". I would make the cutout panel width 27.5" so you can have 3/4" of edge to lift and move the box around. It also makes it easier to carpet that way. You'll want to stuff the box with fiberglass insulation, the pink stuff. I'd put in 2-3 layers. Experiment with varying amounts of fill based on your listening preferences, but you do need fill. 

Let me know if you need help with anything else.


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## needyourhelp (Dec 3, 2013)

Xtreme,

First thanks for taking the time to help everyone out for free. 
I have a question for you on a couple of subwoofers
They are all low end, but Im working with what Ive acquired here and there

This will all be going in the back of a dodge dakota ext cab so I have some room to work with
I am thinking about going with 
51" wide x 34" tall x 11.5" deep using .75 woods, that totals 9.3099
Subwoofer wise Im using - specs listed lower in post
x1 brutus brz15

x1 fosgate prime R1 12"

x1 MBquart onx 304 12"

Now I called fosgate and they said I could go with a ported @ 2 cubic ft and a 6" port, I did this and it sounds decent but was wondering your thoughts

I saw in one of your other posts that for the brutus you suggested 4 cubic ft, 4.5 to include x2 3" x 18" flared ports 

I am wanting to face these to the back of the cab for 2 reasons
#1 they don't match look wise 
#2 I figure if I bolt the box down facing backwards it will be harder to steal, not that these are worth alot but it's the principle of making it a pain for someone

I plan to make each chamber separate so I was wondering your thoughts. 
I also was wondering if you could explain why 2 ports at that length, I have no doubts in your knowledge but the 12volt box calculator gives me short ports when I enter it there. Does this simulate a slotted port?

Thanks again and lastly could I run with 4 cubic feet for the ports on the 15" if they started at the top of the box and went up towards the ceiling? I feel like when I had the port on the fosgate box closer to the ceiling of the cab it seemed to fill the truck better and is there a suggested distance from the woofers to the back of the cab

Also I did some measuring last night and I wont need to do external ports as the top of the box will be close enough to the roof of the cab

I know its alot to take in, just wanted to ask all the questions in one post
Mainly listen to rap, but a large variety of everything else


Specs for Subs: Brutus 15"
Subwoofer Series
Brutus

Subwoofer Size
15"

Peak Power Handling
1200 watts

RMS Power Handling
600 watts

Voice Coil(s)
Dual


Impedance (Per Voice Coil)
4 ohms

Xmax (millimeters)
15.5 mm

MBquart 12 specs
Peak Power Handling
350 watts

RMS Power Handling
175 watts

Voice Coil(s)
Dual

Impedance (Per Voice Coil)
4 ohms

Voice Coil Diameter
1.5"

Equivalent Compliance (Vas)99.286 liters
Total Speaker Q Value (Qts)

1.015

Electrical Q Value (Qes)
1.475

Electrical Resistance of Voice Coil (Re)
8.16 ohms

Mechanical Q Value (Qms)
255.83


Fosgate 12 specs

Size: 12"
 
 Nominal Impedance: 4-Ohm
 

 Power Handling (Watts RMS): 150 Watts RMS 
300 Watts Max
 

 Voice Coil Diameter: 2.0" (50.8 mm)
 

 Magnet Weight (oz): 52.47 oz. (1.49 Kg.)
 

 Speaker Connector: 12 AWG compression
 

 Fs (Hz): 22
 

 Re (Ohms): 3.39
 

 Le (mH): 2.2
 

 Qms: 4.76
 

 Qes: 0.55 
 

 Qts: 0.49
 

 Vas (Liters): 197.2
 

  Sd (cm[SUP]2[/SUP]): 530 

SPL (dB @ 1w/1m): 87
 
 Xmax (mm): 6.3
 

 Woofer Displacement (in): 0.101 cu.ft. (2.86 Liters)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

How are you planning on amplifying these? What's your goal? Just as loud as can be?


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## needyourhelp (Dec 3, 2013)

Pretty much, amp wise it doesn't get much more low end than the speakers but they are 

la1110 bk. - legacy amp 500 rms @ 4 ohm so probably actually that at 2 ohm
dual 400 - supposedly 175 rms at 4 ohm
kenwood kac - not sure of the model but its 175 rms 4 ohm which I'm having to run at 2ohm and 
it like 75 per channel at 2 ohohm 

Loud is pretty much the goal. I would love to sell it all and change to decent stuff but all that together probably wouldn't bring enough cash to do much so I'm just going to use it and make due 

the truck has about 214,000. So I figure if I can shake it apart it will speed up getting something new 

thanks again man


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## needyourhelp (Dec 3, 2013)

I'd like to keep the overall dimensions of the size I listed because it will save me a lot of cutting as some of the wood is already cut to those sizes that work with that and it will allow me to still recline back


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## TH3DISTURBED1 (Nov 16, 2013)

I have the opportunity to buy either (1) 12" IDQ v3s or (1) 12" IDMax v3. What is the box space recommended for each? It will definitely help me make a decision based on how much trunk I have to give up.

I have 500 watts to work with and I can use all of this power for either one.

IDQ v3
Fs 26 Hz
Qes .437
Qms 2.806
Qts .374
Vas 3 cubic feet
sd 519.45 square cm

IDMax v3
Fs 27.4 Hz
Qes .445
Qms 2.47
Qts .377
Vas 3.35 cubic feet
Sd 545 square cm

Edit: Should mention I have a 2014 Cruze

Edit 2: Actually, I have the option of a second IDQ now!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

TH3DISTURBED1 said:


> I have the opportunity to buy either (1) 12" IDQ v3s or (1) 12" IDMax v3. What is the box space recommended for each? It will definitely help me make a decision based on how much trunk I have to give up.
> 
> I have 500 watts to work with and I can use all of this power for either one.
> 
> ...


Between one IDQ and one IDMax, go with the IDMax. Between two IDQs and one IDMax, go with two IDQs. Expect to use up quite a bit of space as they will need 0.9 cubic feet each. The IDMax will be close to that. I believe 1.1 cubic feet. 

I happen to have a box already built for two IDQ12 V3s. Just needs a new carpet unless you like black shag.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## TH3DISTURBED1 (Nov 16, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Between one IDQ and one IDMax, go with the IDMax. Between two IDQs and one IDMax, go with two IDQs. Expect to use up quite a bit of space as they will need 0.9 cubic feet each. The IDMax will be close to that. I believe 1.1 cubic feet.
> 
> I happen to have a box already built for two IDQ12 V3s. Just needs a new carpet unless you like black shag.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


What are the dimensions of that box? I was leaning towards the (2) IDQs before and now I have the need to get them.

As much as I would love to go with the (2) 18's over this, I don't have the confidence to cut into a car that I've had for 6 weeks.

Edit: I'm assuming this has the terminal cup(s) in it already? I have no problem wiring everything myself, would just want to see what else I'd have to get beyond the subs. I have 25 feet of 12 gauge wire set aside for this.


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## TH3DISTURBED1 (Nov 16, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Between one IDQ and one IDMax, go with the IDMax. Between two IDQs and one IDMax, go with two IDQs. Expect to use up quite a bit of space as they will need 0.9 cubic feet each. The IDMax will be close to that. I believe 1.1 cubic feet.
> 
> I happen to have a box already built for two IDQ12 V3s. Just needs a new carpet unless you like black shag.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


The price for the pair brand new in box just dropped to $400 SHIPPED. I just pulled the trigger on this now. Please let me know about the box when you can: I'm sure a box you built would be much more of a home for these subs than one I could build myself. I believe the corners will line up better and the holes for the subs would be much more of a circle (all I have is a jig saw).


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Well that only took forever. Finally got all pending orders sorted out and shipped. Again, my sincerest apologies to those who waited way too long to get their stuff. With my kid being born, purchase of a new house, closing down father in law's business, moving, dealing with home insurance and having to re-pave some of my driveway, and a bunch more I won't even bother mentioning, I've had to decline orders for almost a year. 

Well, I'm happy to say my wood shop is set up again in my new garage, and I'm ready to take more orders for subwoofer enclosures. If anyone has been waiting on me, just let me know and I can get your oder in. Currently, I only have one order on my bench, which is for a single 24" subwoofer for home theater.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> ...a single 24" subwoofer for home theater.


I wouldn't mind seeing pics and results for that one! Which driver? I saw you mention this on the PE TT forum and wondered if it (somehow) was going in a Cruze!?!


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## gbmlt14 (Aug 28, 2014)

Hey XT, curious as to what you think about this sub :
http://www.clarion.com/ca/en/produc...s/WQ2510D/ca-en-product-pf_1259491098421.html

I bought it a couple years ago and had it installed in my truck. Now it's just taking up space in my closet. Is it worth building a box for and installing in a cruze? Or should I ditch it and buy a new one. I've also got a mb quart fx1.400 amp to power it.









 Sent via iphone


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

gbmlt14 said:


> Hey XT, curious as to what you think about this sub :
> Clarion Canada | WQ2510D
> 
> I bought it a couple years ago and had it installed in my truck. Now it's just taking up space in my closet. Is it worth building a box for and installing in a cruze? Or should I ditch it and buy a new one. I've also got a mb quart fx1.400 amp to power it.
> ...


Sell it along with the amp, and start thinking about how much you want to spend on the Cruze to get some decent bass. It would not be worth building a box for that.


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## stanski1 (May 20, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Sell it along with the amp, and start thinking about how much you want to spend on the Cruze to get some decent bass. It would not be worth building a box for that.


Ouch!!! The cold hard truth!!! Lol 

I am just curious why you don't like the monoblock? I would think it's at least a good start and then buy a 4 channel amp to compliment it. I know I have been out of the car audio scene for a while, but I thought MB Quart put out a decent product???


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

I am considering 6 of these HS24 in my HT set up IB OF COURSE



24” subwoofer
36mm Xmax (one-way linear)
65mm Xmech (one-way)
3″ diameter voice coil
1500 watts RMS power handling
10″ diameter Nomex spider
Double sewn on leads

HS24 Dual 2 ohm voice coilsHS24 Dual 1 ohm voice coils Re3.7 ohmsRe1.77 ohmsFs20 HzFs18 HzQes0.57Qes0.45Qms12.2Qms7.99Qts0.55Qts0.43Le3.79 mHLe2.1 mHSd212943.8 mm^2Sd212943.8 mm^2Vas595 LVas721 LBl23.6Bl17.31Mms671 gMms671 gCms92.3Cms111Sensitivity (1w/1m)91 dbSensitivity (1w/1m)91.6 dbXmax36 mmXmax36 mm


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

Good deal on awesome subs 
FS: Pair of CSS SDX-12 Subwoofer Drivers


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

stanski1 said:


> Ouch!!! The cold hard truth!!! Lol
> 
> I am just curious why you don't like the monoblock? I would think it's at least a good start and then buy a 4 channel amp to compliment it. I know I have been out of the car audio scene for a while, but I thought MB Quart put out a decent product???


That looks more like after they sold out. It's not a bad amp so to speak, but it isn't anything to write home about. If you were to use it, we'd have to pair it with something at 150-300W in a sealed box and we'd have to make sure the impedance matches. Most of the subs I like at that power level are 4 ohm subs, and this amp only does 400W at 2 ohms.



hificruzer226 said:


> I am considering 6 of these HS24 in my HT set up IB OF COURSE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have an enclosure for one on my work bench right now.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I have an enclosure for one on my work bench right now.


bhahahahahahaha no poop(substitute for a bad word)!


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

why wouldnt you run these ib? choo crazy unless you only are getting one.


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## gbmlt14 (Aug 28, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Sell it along with the amp, and start thinking about how much you want to spend on the Cruze to get some decent bass. It would not be worth building a box for that.


Gotcha, I'm mostly looking for a little more oomf for synthetic bass. I don't want too crazy, I enjoy using my trunk. I'd like to get away with spending about $500. I know you'll tell me to come back down to earth if needed. ^_^


 Sent via iphone


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> why wouldnt you run these ib? choo crazy unless you only are getting one.


Guy wants it in a sealed box, so that's what I'm building. Had to buy a jasper jig for my router designed for making tables because the **** sub is so enormous. 



gbmlt14 said:


> Gotcha, I'm mostly looking for a little more oomf for synthetic bass. I don't want too crazy, I enjoy using my trunk. I'd like to get away with spending about $500. I know you'll tell me to come back down to earth if needed. ^_^
> 
> 
> Sent via iphone


$500 is reasonable for a subwoofer and enclosure. Might need another $50-$100 to add a good amp to that.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Guy wants it in a sealed box, so that's what I'm building. Had to buy a jasper jig for my router designed for making tables because the **** sub is so enormous.


YOU MUST POST SPECS AND PICS! I am gonna get 6 of these guys.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> YOU MUST POST SPECS AND PICS! I am gonna get 6 of these guys.


And a new breaker I imagine. 

I've discovered that big bass in cars is great because the cars are made of metal and flexible plastic and can generally take the abuse. SPL cars are almost always cheaper cars where the warped metal won't be of significant loss. 

In a home though, you have drywall and wood and brick and things that fall off shelves. About the only purpose for big subwoofers is to reproduce extremely low notes in the subsonic range, and IB subs aren't all that suitable for those frequencies. Sure do sound nice though. 

I'll admit my two sealed 10" subs don't produce the kind of bass I'd like at home, at maximum volumes, I have to reposition things on shelves afterward.


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## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

Can I be next for a box ?  lol


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## beld2478 (Nov 19, 2012)

Loved my first box w/the dayton 10". Do you still do this by chance?


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## Megatron (Mar 17, 2015)

So I am about to buy a gently used 2014 LTZ with the pioneer system. I have a kicker L3 10" -->










Paired up with a *Alpine - 500W Class D Digital Mono Amplifier with Low-Pass Crossover








*

In my old car. I wanted to just toss this into the trunk of the soon to be mine LTZ. I've searched through here and it doesn't look like its going to be that much of a pain in the butt to accomplish. But... I wanted to mount it like that kicker sub SCU11 or whatever in the side. Have you made any boxes for the L3s? 

I know I could probably just remount the amp to the back of that box its in and fit it into the corner... but I'm a sucker for fit and finish.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I haven't made boxes for the L3. Frankly I don't like the way Kicker subwoofers sound at all. They are muddy, distorted, and unnatural.


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## Megatron (Mar 17, 2015)

Well then, it was just a question. Thank you for your quick response.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

The Pioneer system is pretty Bass heavy to begin with anything more than a middle setting of 0 gets too much bass, ...what it could use is brighter highs....for when you play stuff via USB. Now the cars without the Pioneer package are seriously in dire need of more bass. I drove both.......that Pioneer package is what determined which of two Nav equipped Diesel Cruzes I was going to get after hearing both.


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## Megatron (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm test driving an LTZ today with the pioneer package, the LT I drove to boston and back from ohio had the regular. I haven't heard the pioneer at all yet, just trying to do some pre-research on how easy it will be.


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## YIN (Dec 6, 2014)

I have the pioneer system. To me it's not bass heavy. I notice when it can't reproduce lows I'm used to hearing with my old set up. Which makes me sad lol. It's not horrible just not the impact I'd like but then I don't expect much out of stock.


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## Faisal (Aug 14, 2015)

:iloveyou: hahahahahah :sigh::goodjob:


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## DeniseRae (Aug 22, 2015)

What's a good speaker to use to replace the factory door and rear deck speaks with that won't break the bank but still have a great sound.....(bass, mids and highs)
Also gonna be running (2) 10s in a sealed box (not sure what ones yet) (not sure bout what amp either)....
Looking at either Rockford Fosgate or Skar Audio


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## clearlin (Sep 29, 2015)

thank you for your sharing!i learn more about this .good luckly!


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## ryanwgregg (May 14, 2012)

musgofasa said:


> If I had any money I would be very tempted to try bidding and see what it would take to buy those from you.


Still interested in buying a set? http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/20-b...r-available-300-shipped-pair.html#post2455074


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## Scott205 (Aug 11, 2016)

Is there a plug and play wiring alternative for the 2014 Cruze LT without nav with the touchscreen?

i have a bunch of audio grade amps, speakers and subs left over and hate to mess with the factory harness?

Thanks


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## grtpumpkin (Nov 25, 2016)

Wow! Just finished reading through this entire thread. Pulled some really good nuggets from it. Thanks XR & to all that have contributed. This thread is very old but it's all fairly new to me.

Comparing sub specifications.

Alpine SWR-843D to the Alpine SWR-8D4 , what's the real difference besides the big price difference? I can find most specs on both but not all. Frequency response in basically identical. Both up to 200Hz.

I was also considering the Tangband W8-740P which XR touched upon. Frequency response on this is listed at 28-1Khz.

Hoping to begin my 2014 Cruze install in the not too distant future as I have aquired most all I will need. Still acquiring knowledge.

Any Thoughts????


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Closing this thread as I don't have time to build enclosures anymore. PM me if you have any questions related to subwoofer enclosures.


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