# Engine reduced power and smoking



## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Previous post on DPF full limp mode. Car back at dealer. Had done 3 regens last week. soot at 77, said they brought back down to 21. Took car down road about 4 miles and got reduced power light again and lot of black smoke. Brought it on home and drained the diesel out and replaced with Exxon diesel. Returned to dealer. They did two more manual regens. Told them to take it out for test drive before I come pick it up. Same thing happened to tech, loaded up, sputtering, and smoking. Said getting all kinds of error codes. They are uncertain where to go next. I had put some Sea Foam in fuel when I thought it was bad fuel. Would this have caused some additional problems? The black smoke coming out exhaust is new concern, may be coincidental. At 158000 miles is it still necessary to only use dexos 5w-30 oil? Seems like oil is getting into exhaust, and I am seeing oily residue around Turbo. Think the Turbo seal may be best place to start looking? After all this soot and re-gens are all the sensors able to get cleared of soot and oil so they work correctly, or do you think I will be looking at replacement of them too?
Sorry for all questions. Not feeling too good about skill level of dealership and I am a long way from any other ones. Think they need all the help I can find.
Definitely want to get that scanguage II, and have sent inquiry in to be sure it is set up from my Cruze diesel


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

gregbonat said:


> I had put some Sea Foam in fuel when I thought it was bad fuel. Would this have caused some additional problems? The black smoke coming out exhaust is new concern, may be coincidental.


This was an exceptionally bad move. 

Who ever told you to do this should never be trusted with your car again. Ever. 



gregbonat said:


> At 158000 miles is it still necessary to only use dexos 5w-30 oil?


In a word: yes. You must only use a dexos2 oil. Ever. 

Using a dexos1 or some other kind of oil will lead to multiple system failures such as you've described. 

Good luck.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

To echo Tomko, seafoam was a super bad idea. Dexos 2 5w-30 is what engine needs to be used, period.

Soot at 77 is super high, when they do a manual regen it needs to go to near zero not 21.

It sounds like you may have multiple issues to deal with some of them may be self inflicted.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Well thanks. Hopefully the 20 miles I had to drive with sea foam didn't create too much additional problem> I have since drained tank and put fresh Exxon in it. Had figured since my wife only got 4 miles down road after fueling with diesel that fuel was bad and was just trying to get it home

Also, sure didn't think dexos II would still be needed at this stage. Some sites I have visited seemed to indicate dexos II was more of a collaboration between Gm and oil company. I kept using it not to void warranty though. Hard to find it.

They are telling me at this point that the DPF seems to be bad and I also have a possible bad #3 injector and #1 out of balance. P2202? code and several others.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

You need a motor oil that at least meets or exceeds Dexos 2 or ACEA C3 specifications. It does not have to be Dexos 2, but it must be emissions system safe. If you use regular oil you greatly increase your risk of having issues with your emissions system. The diesels need a low ash oil. Your car may have a DPF that is no good at this point, but it was caused by another issue. The turbo oil seals should defiantly be investigated at this point.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I suspect you may also need a fuel system cleaning, but one designed for low sulfur diesel engines. I would get this done before looking at the injectors as it may simply be fouled injectors. However at the mileage I wouldn't be too surprised if you have a bad injector.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Tomko said:


> This was an exceptionally bad move.


Good for a gasser, bad for a diesel. Same thing with the oil. Have to use diesel oil, not gasser oil.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Dealer shouldn't be running regens if it's having massive problems like that. I don't know why they are blaming the dpf. Your dpf is probably torched now, so they can pay for that. They also could of cracked pistons, melted rings, or worse. Yeah they can pay for that too if that's the case.

Anyway many will say its an injector stuck open, but that will usually cause white smoke (or at least a grey). It can be black, but generally white.

Could also be some crazy pcv problem, which should be easy to test.

Otherwise you're just choking on oil. Whether from turbo, or engine itself.... Not much more to say really.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

gregbonat said:


> They are uncertain where to go next.


They need to contact GM for help. As should be evident by now, diesel is a whole different deal than gasoline engines. There's no shame in asking for help in something they may not have a lot of experience with.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks, I'll pass that along to them


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

gregbonat said:


> Thanks, I'll pass that along to them


I don't remember off the top of my head, but can you remind me what the very first thing that triggered all this was? I think I can give some better input once I remember what triggered everything. In the meantime, others have given some good input.


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Within the first 500 miles my intake hose after the turbo came off, ran like junk and clogged my dpf pretty quick (like 90 grams or so). May not be your problem, but worth a look considering the number of loose clamps these cars have had..


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Diesel, Wife was returning from 400 mile trip. Stopped to fuel up before getting home. Went 5 mi down road and car started to run real rough. She pulled off shoulder and car went into limp mode. Had to have it towed home.

Dealership is saying they believe now the cold side intercooler for turbo fell apart. Just had brief phone call with them, will know more once they get it pulled out.

I will also take look at clamps, thanks LultzT1


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

so how much oil are you losing?


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

gregbonat said:


> Diesel, Wife was returning from 400 mile trip. Stopped to fuel up before getting home. Went 5 mi down road and car started to run real rough. She pulled off shoulder and car went into limp mode. Had to have it towed home.
> 
> *Dealership is saying they believe now the cold side intercooler for turbo fell apart. Just had brief phone call with them, will know more once they get it pulled out.
> 
> *I will also take look at clamps, thanks LultzT1


This is EXACTLY happened to me, hopefully that's all. I should have been more clear, disconnected post turbo and so I had no boost, smoked like crazy on Highway and couldn't really go very fast then got reduced power followed by engine shutdown soon, went straight to dealer. Not sure why you never saw messagws. Subsequently had my SCR, NOX#1, and particulate matter sensors replaced about 10k, 15k and 26k miles later and NOX#2 myself at 40k, may or may not have been related.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Not seeing any oil loss. Never saw where engine was even getting hot at all. I was keeping my eye on gauges when all this started happening. I did change oil though immediately after they did the 3rd manual Re-gen as I figured the oil was being cooked as well. Hope to hear back from them today to see what all they have found out. Having fuel system cleaned, and will remind them to also check all the turbo clamps, but they probably have to remove turbo to get intercooler off. May replace clamps with the Constant Torque Clamps to prevent them from loosening up in future if that is happening.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Yea, I am a little concerned about those sensors now myself. Hope they can be cleaned off from all the particulate that is likely covering them now. Will know more based on what error codes show up after they replace this intercooler, do a fuel system cleaning, etc. I haven't written down the codes that are coming up now to see what all they are. They're on the service ticket. Hope to have a report back soon on the definitive problem. I am wanting to see this intercooler to see exactly what they mean by the thing falling apart.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

gregbonat said:


> Not seeing any oil loss. Never saw where engine was even getting hot at all. I was keeping my eye on gauges when all this started happening. I did change oil though immediately after they did the 3rd manual Re-gen as I figured the oil was being cooked as well. Hope to hear back from them today to see what all they have found out. Having fuel system cleaned, and will remind them to also check all the turbo clamps, but they probably have to remove turbo to get intercooler off. May replace clamps with the Constant Torque Clamps to prevent them from loosening up in future if that is happening.


Keep us posted. Hopefully it gets properly sorted.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

WARNING: If you get symptoms I had with smoking, reduced power, sputtering, DPF full warning:
This seems to be the culprit to all the problems with DPF and Engine reduced power warning lights. Intercooler for turbo is made of plastic. It broke and also took out the Throttle body. Dealer says there is a TSB from GM on this as a known problem and they are making a modification to the part. Not sure how long it will be to get the replacement part from GM, still waiting. Not a help to me since I am way out of warranty based on mileage.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

*Turbo intercooler break*







Additional Warning: Dealer just discovered cause of my CEL, Reduced Power, DPF full warning light combined with engine smoking. Intercooler ( located just to right of ball that holds the engine cover down) is made of plastic. GM is aware of the defect, has issued a TSB and is modifying the part. This one broke and also took out the throttle body. Dealer is waiting for GM to send new part. Something else to keep eye on besides the hose clamps. 164000 mi. on my vehicle so out of luck.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

gregbonat said:


> View attachment 204665
> WARNING: If you get symptoms I had with smoking, reduced power, sputtering, DPF full warning:
> This seems to be the culprit to all the problems with DPF and Engine reduced power warning lights. Intercooler for turbo is made of plastic. It broke and also took out the Throttle body. Dealer says there is a TSB from GM on this as a known problem and they are making a modification to the part. Not sure how long it will be to get the replacement part from GM, still waiting. Not a help to me since I am way out of warranty based on mileage.


Wow! Thanks for posting about that. In 3 years on this forum, I've never seen that come up before as an issue, but obviously it is! I wonder what caused it to crack? I drive my car very hard all the time, WOT every day and in 183K miles never had an issue like this. Do you know the part number?


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Mhmm naturaly aspirated diesels.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

I'll betcha this is intimately related to one of the 5 hose clamps that were brought to our attention a few months back. Loose clamps would naturally result in loss of power, CELs and movement of the parts coming into and out of the turbo . By way of illustration, I have had to tighten all of my clamps (5) at least weekly since they loosen over time. Sometimes, they loosen daily and I have to check and Retighten them. So yes GM, this is a problem ( in addition to the DEF tanks and various sensors). Let's hope they resolve all this to create a beacon of reasonableness in a sea of nuttiness!!!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

DslGate said:


> By way of illustration, I have had to tighten all of my clamps (5) at least weekly since they loosen over time. Sometimes, they loosen daily and I have to check and Retighten them.


Sounds like a job for Loctite. I'd sure be using that before I'd start tightening things weekly.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

ChevyGuy said:


> Sounds like a job for Loctite. I'd sure be using that before I'd start tightening things weekly.



Yeah, crossed my mind!! Have tubes of it in garage.....

When I advised dealer, they refused to address it stating that it's normal for things to get loose.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

DslGate said:


> Yeah, crossed my mind!! Have tubes of it in garage.....
> 
> When I advised dealer, they refused to address it stating that it's normal for things to get loose.


That reminds me, I need to check mine again. I've had to tighten them a couple times, but nothing major.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Hopefully, when the part comes in some day :{ I will have the part number for the new re-engineered part. Until it comes in, don't know if that along with throttle body will remedy all the problems.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

gregbonat said:


> Hopefully, when the part comes in some day :{ I will have the part number for the new re-engineered part. Until it comes in, don't know if that along with throttle body will remedy all the problems.


Hopefully it does. Keep us posted. Did your dealership reach out to GM TAC on this? That can speed up parts delivery.


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## gregbonat (Apr 5, 2014)

Okay, picked up car today and is running good. The Turbo tube (intercooler) that goes from turbo to throttle body was replaced along with the throttle body. When tube broke it took out the throttle body too. Looks like the 'tube' is designed a little different but is still some type of phenolic or plastic. p/n for tube is 95472182. Mechanic said I have a build up of soot that he could see in the intake manifold that I will need to deal with soon. It had built up in the throttle body as well. May be in couple weeks will have to remove the intake manifold and have it deep vated to clean it all out. If any one knows of an easier way to get the manifolds cleaned out I would appreciate hearing from you.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

gregbonat said:


> Okay, picked up car today and is running good. The Turbo tube (intercooler) that goes from turbo to throttle body was replaced along with the throttle body. When tube broke it took out the throttle body too. Looks like the 'tube' is designed a little different but is still some type of phenolic or plastic. p/n for tube is 95472182. Mechanic said I have a build up of soot that he could see in the intake manifold that I will need to deal with soon. It had built up in the throttle body as well. May be in couple weeks will have to remove the intake manifold and have it deep vated to clean it all out. If any one knows of an easier way to get the manifolds cleaned out I would appreciate hearing from you.


This kind of stuff plagues VWs and BMWs. There's all sorts of videos and articles about it. It was one of the main things I wondered about when I first bought my CTD - how many miles will I be able to go before I need to clean out the intake? You are the first one to post on this forum about this particular issue. I have yet to find out on my car, and I am close to 185K miles.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

This happened to me today at 186K miles. No CEL, but heard a sudden pop, smelled diesel fumes really strong and car ran really rough. I was able to limp it to a parking lot.Because of this thread, I immediately knew what the problem was.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That looks like a nice failure...wonder if that part number is changed since the vehicle was released. Plastic is cracking?


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

Time for a tube diesel


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

@gregbonat Do you have any more info on how it took out the throttle body and how it was determined it needed replaced? Mine is sitting at the dealer, but they won't be able to get to it until tomorrow.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> That looks like a nice failure...wonder if that part number is changed since the vehicle was released. Plastic is cracking?


I am not sure how to tell if it's a new part number. The OP hints that it may be.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I am not sure how to tell if it's a new part number. The OP hints that it may be.


I sure hope so - that's the kind of failure that shouldn't be happening.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Was the clamp too tight?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Tomko said:


> Was the clamp too tight?


Not sure. It's not one of the clamps that I ever tightened on the other side of the engine.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

This has occured with our two highest mileage CTDs. 158,000 and 186,000. 

@*diesel* this looks like something that we need to write a specific thread about and place it as a sticky. 

I'm guessing we will all encounter this mechanical failure in due time. In some ways a refreshing change from emissions system faults.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

pressure from a backfire with enough force to break the plastic duct.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Tomko said:


> @*diesel* this looks like something that we need to write a specific thread about and place it as a sticky.


I just put together a common issues list and posted it.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

oilburner said:


> pressure from a backfire with enough force to break the plastic duct.


Silly newbie question - but can a diesel backfire?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Tomko said:


> This has occured with our two highest mileage CTDs. 158,000 and 186,000.
> 
> @*diesel* this looks like something that we need to write a specific thread about and place it as a sticky.
> 
> I'm guessing we will all encounter this mechanical failure in due time. In some ways a refreshing change from emissions system faults.


The duct is hard plastic, not rubber, isn't it? So it probably becomes brittle with the heat-cycling and cracks, perhaps?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Tomko said:


> Silly newbie question - but can a diesel backfire?


I was wondering this myself.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I was wondering this myself.


I would believe that to be very difficult, due to direct injection, and the fact that diesel won't auto-ignite when it's not compressed.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Will see what parts it takes to get Diesel back on the road again, makes me wonder if this is a weak link on higher miles CTD would it make sense to replace this plastic tube/hose if that is what blows out as a precaution maybe when timing belt is replaced? In other words why wait till it fails??? just a thought.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> Will see what parts it takes to get Diesel back on the road again, makes me wonder if this is a weak link on higher miles CTD would it make sense to replace this plastic tube/hose if that is what blows out as a precaution maybe when timing belt is replaced? In other words why wait till it fails??? just a thought.


A very good thought. 

There's also a guy who makes custom nomex-lined silicone hoses for the aircraft industry. He's currently produced some for duramax. I'm wondering if he'd make a replacement for us.

http://www.csobeech.com/GeeBee.html


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Tomko said:


> A very good thought.
> 
> There's also a guy who makes custom Kevlar-lined silicone hoses for the aircraft industry. He's currently produced some for duramax. I'm wondering if he'd make a replacement for us.
> 
> CSOBeech - Gee Bee Beechcraft Product Store


That could be a very good idea, maybe that would hold up longer and just need replaced once and then just inspect it at each oil change? I wonder if one was looking it prior to failure if it is showing signs of failure like a crack or something?? maybe not.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Tomko said:


> Silly newbie question - but can a diesel backfire?


Diesel said he heard a pop noise so instantly I though backfire but more I think about it I can`t come up with away it would especially with direct injection an compression ignition...................thanks for 
making me think. that intake is bolted an clamped an doesn`t move, so why would it blow off an break ??, or it appears like it blew off.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

oilburner said:


> Diesel said he heard a pop noise so instantly I though backfire but more I think about it I can`t come up with away it would especially with direct injection an compression ignition...................thanks for
> making me think. that intake is bolted an clamped an doesn`t move, so why would it blow off an break ??, or it appears like it blew off.


Definitely follow your logic. Could that pop sound have been the duct coming off?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

MP81 said:


> I would believe that to be very difficult, due to direct injection, and the fact that diesel won't auto-ignite when it's not compressed.


That was my thought, but then I realized that other then very wrong ignition timing, I didn't know why a gas engine backfires.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

maybe has something to do with boost pressure working away at it . I had a look at mine an it seems to of moved back a bit. going to take it apart when I have more time.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Tomko said:


> Definitely follow your logic. Could that pop sound have been the duct coming off?


I`m convinced there had to be a positive pressure to make that duct separate from the throttle assembly. a none turbo or none supercharged gas or diesel engine would never do that .


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Definitely follow your logic. Could that pop sound have been the duct coming off?


Plastic snapping in shear would make a lot of noise.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Since this is a intercooler hose, isn't this connecting something bolted to the frame with something bolted to the engine? Since engines do move on the motor mounts under load, there'd would have to be some flex somewhere. 

Which raises another question - what happens when the motor mounts start going bad? Because it could cause excess engine movement. This might be the weak link when that starts to happen.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> Since this is a intercooler hose, isn't this connecting something bolted to the frame with something bolted to the engine? Since engines do move on the motor mounts under load, there'd would have to be some flex somewhere.
> 
> Which raises another question - what happens when the motor mounts start going bad? Because it could cause excess engine movement. This might be the weak link when that starts to happen.


the piece that broke is bolted to the top of the engine so unless the bolt came loose an fell out can`t see how its going to move.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

The plastic on mine cracked in almost the exact same way as the OP's did, so it seems a common failure area. I talked to the dealer yesterday and they said parts are ordered and they expect them soon. 

I am a bit confused though. When this happened, I had smoke and strong diesel fumes, but doesn't an intercooler cool the clean intake air?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I am a bit confused though. When this happened, I had smoke and strong diesel fumes, but doesn't an intercooler cool the clean intake air?


Yes, it should only be compressed air from the turbo. That's a good point - you should not have had either...


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

So, just the pipe and all is well. i am not sure why they listed that gasket - it's the wrong gasket as far as i can tell, but I am not 100% sure. I am also not sure why the OP needed all the extra stuff. Probably driving it for 20 miles like that caused damage. My soot grams were exactly where they were when the issue happened, and no other components were broken.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Fellas,

Does anyone know if this can be replaced at home or does it require special tools? I haven't seen anyone else post about this other than this thread here.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> Fellas,
> 
> Does anyone know if this can be replaced at home or does it require special tools? I haven't seen anyone else post about this other than this thread here.


cant see why it would be beyond our reach,


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I'm just thinking of throwing a 3 inch clamp around it to keep that ring from becoming fatigued. But I don't fully understand the issue. Anyone think that would work?


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Popped the hood today and did a quick visual on this intercooler charge pipe, didn’t find any signs of fatigue or pending failure (‘14 CTD, 123K miles). 

Mine has spent its life in warmer regions of Texas and Arizona. Rarely sees temps below freezing. Makes me wonder if the part failures mentioned here happened in colder regions where hot/cold cycles are much more extreme?

That said, looking at the point of potential failure I’m not sure a 3 inch clamp would work as the surface is irregular and the steel ring-clamp might prevent good contact between the 3 inch clamp and the plastic end piece that’s prone to fail. 

Worth a try though I suppose.

There was an earlier question about whether this part could be installed at home. The short answer appears to be yes.

The top connection to the throttle body looks easy enough. However the bottom connection to the intercooler is buried deep, not accessible from the top. If removal of the engine splash shield (easy task) doesn’t provide access, removal of the front cowl (a little more involved process) may be required.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

Checked mine today also.

June 15 car with 33k.

Looks great and really wouldn't be too bad to replace it appears.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Could this be caused by blowback? For those that failed, did it happen just cruising down the road or while under heavy load or deceleration?


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## Carpentree (Jan 29, 2020)

diesel said:


> So, just the pipe and all is well. i am not sure why they listed that gasket - it's the wrong gasket as far as i can tell, but I am not 100% sure. I am also not sure why the OP needed all the extra stuff. Probably driving it for 20 miles like that caused damage. My soot grams were exactly where they were when the issue happened, and no other components were broken.
> 
> View attachment 206793


So question, last night I was driving my car around town and it went into reduced power mode, I noticed the engine compartment was smoking a little bit which I'm not entirely sure why and it's been making this kind of whistlening sound, my brother in law says it sounds kind of like turbo bearings going bad. And so I was looking around the engine compartment in the dark and that intercooler tube appears to be loose but I'm not entirely sure, I can slide it back and forth maybe like 3/16" of an inch and I tested it, I pushed it all the way in and then revved the car to about 3k rpm's and checked it again and it had pushed it out the 3/16" of an inch or so. I don't know if this is the cause of the reduced power mode, maybe the whistle sound if air is leaking into it, and the reduced power mode? A couple days ago, a message popped up saying DPF filter full keep driving, I kept driving probably 30-miles after the message went away at highway speeds it seemed to work fine. The other day though, the only 'bad' thing I did was idle it for maybe 2 hours in the parking lot while talking on the phone, so not sure if maybe that clogged up the DPF filter or not.

If I have to replace anything with the emissions system(s) I'm just gonna look heavily into getting it all deleted if I can find the right person to do it for me. I'm not scared of the Government. Also, it has just over 130k miles as reference, it's a 2014 Automatic transmission. Only oil I've used for the past 30k miles has been Amsoil specifically designed for European style small diesel engines with emissions equipment.


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