# 15594 - Emission Recall - NOx Position 1 Sensor Replacement - Recall Suspended



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Wow, what a mess they created. I had recall done end of December and have driven almost 1500 miles with no issues before or after recall. Only change I have observed is extended regens compared to prior to recall. Now they have Cruze diesels with much different ECU programs.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

Interesting... I didn't get the recall done & it no longer shows my recall list


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> Wow, what a mess they created. I had recall done end of December and have driven almost 1500 miles with no issues before or after recall. Only change I have observed is extended regens compared to prior to recall. Now they have Cruze diesels with much different ECU programs.


I feel like there has to be some kind of difference in the programs for some to have had so many issues post-recall, and for others to not have a single one. As of yesterday (when I dumped in more DEF), we have 4233 miles since the recall work was done and have had no CELs. As far as I can tell, the fuel economy is really no different either.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

My fuel economy is always off a little during the winter due to fuel and cold weather. I don't see any difference with economy either other than if it is not regening as often that has a modest positive influence on economy. Just feel bad for the owners with chronic post recall problems.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

This is great news, thanks for posting!! I'm going to call my dealership and set up an appointment to fix this mess.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I have an appt this afternoon to have this done. I will report back.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

This is good news, but very bad news as well. I think GM is throwing in the towel on this. If the pre recall software is not totally emissions compliant, and the updates are causing nothing but problems, does that mean they can't get the system to work within the EPA rules? If so what does that mean for us? Will we be in the same boat as VW?


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## Glenn in CO (Dec 12, 2016)

So it seems that GM cannot get it's act together, meanwhile the value of our cars keeps going down and if you try to sell your car prospective buyers stay away because of these issues. So what's next? Class action lawsuit?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

JRB'sOilburningCruze said:


> This is good news, but very bad news as well. I think GM is throwing in the towel on this. If the pre recall software is not totally emissions compliant, and the updates are causing nothing but problems, does that mean they can't get the system to work within the EPA rules? If so what does that mean for us? Will we be in the same boat as VW?



I don't think GM had anything like VW emission issue that wasn't compliant. I think they had some quality issues with keeping the emission system working and not throwing codes and thought they could proactively replace a NOX sensor and reprogram and that might reduce emission related issues. It seems for some this created additional unintended problems. Now they are stopping the recall and reprograming back to original program and continuing to work on a longer term solution. I think it sucks this happened but maybe this will work. Just my view from my corner of the world.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Glenn in CO said:


> So it seems that GM cannot get it's act together, meanwhile the value of our cars keeps going down and if you try to sell your car prospective buyers stay away because of these issues. So what's next? Class action lawsuit?


What is there to sue about? They are trying to fix the problems, if you have a car that has continual issues work thru the Customer Service and be proactive, they have bought back cars before. This is why we have warranties.

No matter what car you buy, they all depreciate, and all of them have some problems, some more than others.

If anyone hurt the value of diesel cars, it would be the VW folks that did the most damage to the perception of diesel cars.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

This recall had to do with the functionality of the emissions system. It was not issued because the Cruze was not complying with emissions. It is completely and utterly not even closely related to VW's issues in any way. All cars that had the recall done would have been reprogrammed with the same ECM program if the ECM was reprogrammed as it was supposed to be during the recall. Mine was, and I have had no emissions issues.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

CruzeDan said:


> This recall had to do with the functionality of the emissions system. It was not issued because the Cruze was not complying with emissions. It is completely and utterly not even closely related to VW's issues in any way. All cars that had the recall done would have been reprogrammed with the same ECM program if the ECM was reprogrammed as it was supposed to be during the recall. Mine was, and I have had no emissions issues.


What I meant was, not VW cheating and their issues, but having a car that did not meet emission standards and possibly owning a car that states could refuse to register and be in a buy back situation like a VW. I'm not saying GM intentionally tried to skirt emission regulations, but I think they are having more problems with it then they are letting on. Why did they have a recall for NOX sensors? WHy have they reprogrammed the ECM multiple times? Without know what is going on at the GM mothership, this just fuels more questions.


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## dougc905 (May 24, 2015)

JRB'sOilburningCruze said:


> What I meant was, not VW cheating and their issues, but having a car that did not meet emission standards and possibly owning a car that states could refuse to register and be in a buy back situation like a VW. I'm not saying GM intentionally tried to skirt emission regulations, but I think they are having more problems with it then they are letting on. Why did they have a recall for NOX sensors? WHy have they reprogrammed the ECM multiple times? Without know what is going on at the GM mothership, this just fuels more questions.


Paranoia


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

dougc905 said:


> Paranoia


In JRB's defense he/she has had many headaches and has been harmed by the recall and all the confusion created by it. If I had that car, I may have a similar opinion.

Let's all try to :respect: each others perspectives.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Land Rover issued a similar recall on their '16 diesel engines. In the letter sent out to owners it explicitly stated that DEF consumption could double. I think this is indirectly related to the recall on our Cruzes. I think these companies are quietly tightening up the emissions on these diesel cars. Not that anybody was cheating per-se, but that maybe they had a bit more emissions than they should have. Just a theory on my part. 

As for the matter at hand - I got the "recall to the recall" done yesterday. CEL is gone and car is back to normal (so far).


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I can't wait to take all this garbage off.... Who has time for all these trips to the dealer? I know I sure as **** wouldn't!


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

Trust me I dont, but putting the dpf and egr back on every 2 years and reprogramming is a pain in the butt too. Especially on a dang car that is 2 years old and a commuter.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

magnusson said:


> Trust me I dont, but putting the dpf and egr back on every 2 years and reprogramming is a pain in the butt too. Especially on a dang car that is 2 years old and a commuter.



Do you have diesel emissions tests or something where you live?


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

magnusson said:


> Trust me I dont, but putting the dpf and egr back on every 2 years and reprogramming is a pain in the butt too. Especially on a dang car that is 2 years old and a commuter.


Most states do not have emissions inspections on diesels. But some do. Even if I was in a state that did have them, it would still be worth it to me to swap everything once every two years.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

CruzeDan,
Thanks for posting that info. My dealership just called me to let me know that the recall had been suspended, but they were not aware of the additional verbiage authorizing re-flash back to pre-recall software.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Reprogramming to the old program is only necessary if the car is exhibiting the CEL mentioned in the document. If you have no issues, it is not necessary to go back.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

CruzeDan said:


> Reprogramming to the old program is only necessary if the car is exhibiting the CEL mentioned in the document. If you have no issues, it is not necessary to go back.


LOL. Oh, I'm having problems. 
1) Recall work
2) Replace other sensor
3) Replace EGR Valve
4) Replace Warranty Sensor
5) CEL on and off every few hundred miles....


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

So I wonder if people who have had the recall and have been having no issues (such as myself) will still be notified to get the improved program once they figure it out, or if they'll just leave us as is since we're experiencing no difficulties with it.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

LiveTrash said:


> So I wonder if people who have had the recall and have been having no issues (such as myself) will still be notified to get the improved program once they figure it out, or if they'll just leave us as is since we're experiencing no difficulties with it.


My guess is that the improved program will be a new recall unrelated to the old one.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Judging by how GM handles programming of modules, the cars with the program new program will be left alone unless there is an issue. GM never recommends programming modules unless there is an issue or a recall.


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## VtTD (Nov 5, 2013)

Wow, so they essentially recalled the recall. That's special. Does GM even have a QA department?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

VtTD said:


> Wow, so they essentially recalled the recall. That's special. Does GM even have a QA department?


Considering that the recall doesn't cause issues on all cars, it's very possible it just was missed. They did the right thing and stopped it, that's it. Anyone who spent money trying to fix it should be really try to be reimbursed.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Anyone who spent money trying to fix it should be really try to be reimbursed.


Totally agree with this. Several people paid to replace NOx sensor #2 as that's generally what the P11DC points to.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

*Do not do emissions recall!!*

Got this in the mail today. glad to see them taking it seriously.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

So it is a software fix? Maybe a tune is in order instead.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

yes the software is not right on the recall. so they are working on a new tune for it. time to bring back again.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> yes the software is not right on the recall. so they are working on a new tune for it. time to bring back again.


I'm glad I didn't as I was just about to go for a cel P11dc code which I cleared it with my Scangauge

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

i went and they did a sensor replacement and a new cal. then CEL came on and turned itself off short after. so i get new sensors and a new cal. awsome


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Got this in the mail today. glad to see them taking it seriously.
> View attachment 223746
> View attachment 223754


I don't like their game, I feal like a rat in their lab ?

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

I went through this disaster. They set it back to the original factory tune. So far so good.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

mine got one during oil change. i protested but it was done already. my Factory delivered tune had no issues either.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

well most of us here knew this gong into it. look at it from another perspective... they still care about gen 1 and getting it solved


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

someone down there needs to tell someone up here not to do the recall. just got a letter from GM Canada telling me to come in for my out standing nox sensor recall. :icon_scratch:


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> someone down there needs to tell someone up here not to do the recall. just got a letter from GM Canada telling me to come in for my out standing nox sensor recall.


not sure what to tell ya. maybe can spec is good to go and usa needs more work


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

oilburner said:


> someone down there needs to tell someone up here not to do the recall. just got a letter from GM Canada telling me to come in for my out standing nox sensor recall. :icon_scratch:


Sensor likely still needs replacing, it's the software update they are suspending. Ironically both my CTDs had the recall done and are running great with no issues, guess I got lucky..

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

pacolino said:


> I don't like their game, I feal like a rat in their lab 
> 
> Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


That is most certainly to be expected when you buy not only a new model car, but something entirely new on the market like the North American Cruze Diesel.

I had the emissions recall done and have had no issues after at least a few thousand kilometres since it was done. I wonder what causes it to negatively affect some and not others.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I think I have driven about 4000 miles post recall with no issues yet. It changed my regens so far quite happy about that.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I wish they could do software/firmware updates over the air on LTE-equipped cars. That would definitely save a trip to the dealer for something.

Maybe in the future...I think they are supposed to do that with the new navigation systems.


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## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> I wish they could do software/firmware updates over the air on LTE-equipped cars. That would definitely save a trip to the dealer for something.
> 
> Maybe in the future...I think they are supposed to do that with the new navigation systems.


I don't think so! 
You don't want the software to update by itself when you are driving the car, or ready to go somewhere and have to wait until it will be done. However you may not want a specific update at all, not all the updates are "ok" for everybody. I remember that it was a recall in the past for the skid plate. I took care myself of my car and made large holes into the plate, just in case I'll have t oil spilled. Guess what? The dealer did the "recall" first time I forgot to mention "Don't do it!"... 
Something else, if they can access your car online, others can do it too...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

CRUISE-CRUZE said:


> I don't think so!
> You don't want the software to update by itself when you are driving the car, or ready to go somewhere and have to wait until it will be done. However you may not want a specific update at all, not all the updates are "ok" for everybody. I remember that it was a recall in the past for the skid plate. I took care myself of my car and made large holes into the plate, just in case I'll have t oil spilled. Guess what? The dealer did the "recall" first time I forgot to mention "Don't do it!"...
> Something else, if they can access your car online, others can do it too...


Eh. Obviously it wouldn't do it while driving, or while you're about to go somewhere. I would be ok with it if you could call OnStar, and they could do it there when you have a recall notice or TSB or something of the sort.

Maybe they should just get it right before they release it, eh? Our other car has had several transmission software updates - taking it to the dealer 3x for that and waiting in the lobby for about an hour while they got it in was just a waste of my time. My Cruze (1.4) had a ECU update that made it run better (and supposedly keeps it from fouling cat converters), a radio update, a firmware flash for the steering, and a BCM flash for the speedo going crazy. Pretty sure the new one needs something for the radio spazzing out with Spotify, and I have a recall, but I'm just going to do it all at once this time. Especially as years go by and the infotainment system starts to feel out-of-date, it would be nice if they could release upgrades for that w/o having to take it to the dealer.

Actually, come to think of it, Tesla does it.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

CRUISE-CRUZE said:


> I don't think so!
> You don't want the software to update by itself when you are driving the car, or ready to go somewhere and have to wait until it will be done. However you may not want a specific update at all, not all the updates are "ok" for everybody. I remember that it was a recall in the past for the skid plate. I took care myself of my car and made large holes into the plate, just in case I'll have t oil spilled. Guess what? The dealer did the "recall" first time I forgot to mention "Don't do it!"...
> Something else, if they can access your car online, others can do it too...


You are correct......Tesla already does this.

GM intends to and actually already has on the genI Volt.

This will be a further extension of the capabilities of the telematics system.....AKA OnStar.

Rob


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## oreo382 (Sep 17, 2014)

pandrad61 said:


> not sure what to tell ya. maybe can spec is good to go and usa needs more work


I had the recall done and I can say that the cold (-15C) and below starting is way worse.The car burps,misses,and usually takes 2 attempts.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

oreo382 said:


> pandrad61 said:
> 
> 
> > not sure what to tell ya. maybe can spec is good to go and usa needs more work
> ...


Do you let the glowplugs do a full cycle before starting? I've never had an issue starting mine at that temp, but the girlfriend, who refuses to acknowledge the glow plugs, just gets in and slams the key straight to start and has to crank the crap out of it to get it to start.


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## NHRA (Oct 12, 2014)

If its not broke dont fix it. Glad i seen the issues most were having after doing the recall. I elected not to have it done and have had no issues with 40,000 miles on my car. For those that have not gotten the letter is says if you had the previous recall done to take it back to the dealer and have it reversed back to original at this time.Back to square one.


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

I got the letter today. It says to disregard the recall for now while GM works on revised software.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Had the recall doe and no issues so far. Couple thousand km on it so far


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Got another cel today code P11DC at 583 kmDSR and 20 sooth mass, I cleared it again with my Scangauge. I'm getting worried of why I'm getting this code, my car has only 24000km, everything is factory original.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

money_man said:


> Had the recall doe and no issues so far. Couple thousand km on it so far


Have 56K miles on the clock and did not have any of the recalls done, NO issues related to recalls up to this point. If its not broke... don't fix it! :th_dblthumb2:


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## smkn600ctd (Dec 16, 2013)

Had the recall done months ago....no issues.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Merging this duplicate thread into the older one.


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## oreo382 (Sep 17, 2014)

justin13703 said:


> Do you let the glowplugs do a full cycle before starting? I've never had an issue starting mine at that temp, but the girlfriend, who refuses to acknowledge the glow plugs, just gets in and slams the key straight to start and has to crank the crap out of it to get it to start.


I always turn the key and let the light go out before starting.


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

oreo382 said:


> I always turn the key and let the light go out before starting.


 With my older diesels, not waiting for the glow plugs simply meant longer cranking time and a bigger puff of smoke on startup. But no harm otherwise (except maybe wear on the starter). I doubt it's any different with these cars. But I think waiting for the light to go out is good practice, especially in cold weather.


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## Sperry (Aug 3, 2013)

recall done 11,000 miles ago , no issues


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> Do you let the glowplugs do a full cycle before starting? I've never had an issue starting mine at that temp, but the girlfriend, who refuses to acknowledge the glow plugs, just gets in and slams the key straight to start and has to crank the crap out of it to get it to start.


well i live in florida so no need for them but i remote stat from inside the house and walk to the car. im sure it primes the fuel pump and glow plugs. but when i manually turn it on i wait for all the lights to turn off so figure the glow plugs have turned off by then.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> well i live in florida so no need for them but i remote stat from inside the house and walk to the car. im sure it primes the fuel pump and glow plugs. but when i manually turn it on i wait for all the lights to turn off so figure the glow plugs have turned off by then.


I was referring to oreo when he stated that after the recall he was having cold weather start issues, but yes when you remote start, it waits for the glow plugs to finish their cycle (if needed). Since you're in florida, you may never or hardly ever see the glow plug light. They are very quick when compared to other glow plug systems I've seen. But the light on the dash is yellow and kind of looks like a coiled up spring.

Oreo, something you may want to try is to cycle the glow plugs twice before starting. Turn the ignition on, wait for the glow plug light to go out, turn the ignition off for about 5 seconds, then turn the ignition back on until the light goes out again, then start. I'm curious if cycling the glow plugs twice like this will show any improvement or not.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> ... so figure the glow plugs have turned off by then.


Just an FYI, in modern diesels the glow plugs stay on.


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

grs1961 said:


> Just an FYI, in modern diesels the glow plugs stay on.


Not all the time, and not for very long, and not at full voltage. And the reason is to clean up the fuel burn when the engine is not at full operating temp.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

see last diesel i drove other then my cruze was dads ol freightliner. when we where in new Orleans after katrina it was snowing and we had to keep the glow plug on for roughly 1 min and fired right up, then turn the toggle for them off. by the time i hear the pump finish priming the plugs indicator have turned off.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-g...ll-nox-position-1-sensor-replacement-ctd.html


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## TGillis (Aug 25, 2017)

Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor #3 and the NOx recall

I have been reading through several threads and posts regarding this recall as well as the system warning I am getting, but I don't seem to be finding what I am looking for. I guess I wanted to post to see if anyone else is having my issue.
I had these recalls done to my 2015 cruze and I have been getting the Service Exhaust Fluid System Now along with the CEL and countdown. I did motor vehicle repair in college but went on to become an Industrial Mechanic, so I am understanding of how systems work.

SO ON TO MY THOUGHTS...
As I have read up on a lot of what can come of this system warning light (mine being ETS #3), I see that most diagnoses could come directly related to the Emissions system, that is what this recall is about. I called GM about it and they told me unless the recall states exactly what the component is that needs to be replaced they will not cover any other work related to it. I do understand that at the end of the day all systems could be related because they all work together for the operation of the car. However, when there is an outstanding issue with this NOx recall and the issue I am having is components within this system, I feel that the defects are creating the issue, I am not understanding why I pay out of my own pocket to repair components effected because problems they are recall.

Any thoughts?


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## oreo382 (Sep 17, 2014)

I noticed this old post of mine and have some info I forgot to share. This summer I cleaned the throttle plate and as far as a toothbrush would reach into the intake manifold with maf cleaner.There was a fair amount of crud on the throttle plate.The car was a bitch to start after this but once it did everything was ok going forward after that.I have noticed a big improvement in cold starting,not rough like before in the cold and way smoother in the summer.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

TGillis said:


> Exhaust Gas Temperature Sensor #3 and the NOx recall
> 
> I have been reading through several threads and posts regarding this recall as well as the system warning I am getting, but I don't seem to be finding what I am looking for. I guess I wanted to post to see if anyone else is having my issue.
> I had these recalls done to my 2015 cruze and I have been getting the Service Exhaust Fluid System Now along with the CEL and countdown. I did motor vehicle repair in college but went on to become an Industrial Mechanic, so I am understanding of how systems work.
> ...


The NOx issue would not in any way induce a failure of that temperature sensor. Yes the system uses many inputs, but the nature of the recall is mostly a computer reprogram, and NOx sensor replacement, that would not cause a EGT#3 failure. 

The DEF "service exhaust fluid system" is a different issue.. do you know the DTC (diagnostic trouble code)? It is possible it is the DEF heater and here in the US there was an extended warranty on that item, so it MIGHT be covered.. assuming that is the issue. I had the DEF tank replaced on my 2015 at no charge, under that extended warranty.


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