# Best bang for the buck mod/mods?



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

I think everyone pretty much agrees with that statement. Plus, so far, intake and exhaust are just being deemed necessary. The intake gives a little better economy and power, plus that nice placebo effect from the BPV. The exhaust is nice to do, and you definitely will get the most power out of that as far as available hardware goes, but the tune does so much for this car. I'm definitely agreeing with you, tune is best bang for the buck.


----------



## Patman (May 7, 2011)

Tune definitely!!!! 1.8 or 1.4 T. Don't have anything else and once I got the tune, didn't need much else. My car was brought to life! for @ $200


----------



## bubby2411 (Sep 3, 2011)

The tune is the best hands down


----------



## VictoryRed08 (Feb 16, 2011)

Stickers, lots of stickers. 

Cheap and like +24hp...


----------



## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

VictoryRed08 said:


> Stickers, lots of stickers.
> 
> Cheap and like +24hp...


LOL. So, a NOS sticker is like what, +30 whp?


----------



## Xlr8machineshop (Jul 17, 2011)

Easily picked up 15 to 20 whp from my two Ecotec mafia stickers.


----------



## TurboTechRacing (Nov 3, 2010)

Intake, Exhaust and tune (top 3)


----------



## iCruze2 (Dec 16, 2011)

Tune FTW


----------



## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yea im waiting to get my exhaust done to get the tune so I dont have to get a rerune for a lil bit until I figure out what else I wanna do im rhinking intercooler after suspinsion and ur struts fronf and rear

Sent from my R800x using AutoGuide.com App


----------



## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

TurboTechRacing said:


> Intake, Exhaust and tune (top 3)


In that order if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## mzodarg (Sep 3, 2011)

:iagree:


----------



## TurboTechRacing (Nov 3, 2010)

Yes in that order, so you can tune around the new parts.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Pardon my ignorance on this subject, but can someone explain to me exactly what "tune" in technical terms?

Does it lean out the stoichiometric air fuel ratio? If if does that, yes, fuel economy will slightly increase, but so will NOx emissions and exhaust valve life will definitely decrease due to higher combustion chamber temperatures.

Does it increase the spark advance curve? Can't really do to much here, anti-knock sensors depending on the grade of fuel used optimized the best spark advance curves just before the point of per-ignition. Any more advance will cause destructive engine damage. Does "tune" give a hotter spark? Never can get a hot enough spark.

Mention the above two because these are software related issues, some mention tuning the exhaust and the intake. But explain how software can change that. It is true that changing the sonic length of the intake and exhaust ports so the wavelength precisely matches the engine speed, but with a fixed length can only optimize this free tuning method over a very narrow range of engine speeds, resonance is the term that is used. Now if this length can vary with engine speed, actually inversely proportion, this would be a drastic improvement, but not very mechanically practical.

Will "tune" take out the winter from our winterized gasoline? Or remove the ethanol? Am averaging 45.2 mpg at 55 mph, with "tune", would I get over 50?

Someone mentioned changing the air cleaner. Cruze's air filter is already 18 times the cross sectional area of the TB input, what does that do? Also baffled to reduce noise, then the characteristics of the MAF sensor have to be retuned to the new air filter. Do they tell you how to do that? Some even deposit an oil film on those delicate MAF electrodes that really messes up the desired AF ratio causing even worse engine performance, either lean burn destroying your exhaust valve or enriched with excessive carbon buildup that really reduces performance.

Have mercy on me, guys, even after 50 years, haven't learned everything, and don't want to miss the boat on something that is very effective. Just don't get what they are doing to improve both fuel economy and performance. Already do know we are getting ripped off by the oil companies, for years the standard BTU rating of gasoline has been 120,000 BTU's, now can vary anywhere from 88 to 106K BTU's per US gallon. Even worse with ethanol, and a lot worse if you get a poor mix. Whoever said alcohol and gas doesn't mix knew what they were talking about.

Things to improve performance have been on the market for over a hundred years, yes replacing a carboned foul spark plug with any clean one improves performance. Decarbonizing an engine really helps, still faced with carbon over over the last 130 years. But the greatest improvement, so far, has been purely psychological, after spending your money, you want it to work, so don't slam on your gas pedal nearly as hard. That really works for extended engine life, less carbon buildup, better engine performance and fuel economy.

So is "tune" any different? If so, explain it to me.


----------



## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

NickD said:


> Pardon my ignorance on this subject, but can someone explain to me exactly what "tune" in technical terms?
> 
> Does it lean out the stoichiometric air fuel ratio? If if does that, yes, fuel economy will slightly increase, but so will NOx emissions and exhaust valve life will definitely decrease due to higher combustion chamber temperatures.
> 
> ...



Click here...Let me google that for you

for specifics on a 'tune' you should email the 'tuner'... Not to be rude but getting sick of this being asked...


----------



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

I can't quite go into technical terms, but the tune we're talking about is from Trifecta Performance. You could get most, if not all of your answers from Vince (Trifecta's founder and operator) by emailing him directly at [email protected]

The tune we're speaking of only helps either economy or performance at any one time. You're either in economy mode, or sport mode. For the automatic transmission Cruzes, this means that 'Drive' is the economy mode, utilizing 14PSI on the turbo and the appropriate mapping and transmission tuning. When you switch to the tapshift option, you are then in sport mode and the turbo is now pushing 22PSI and, again, this is mapped and accounted for appropriately. The transmission also gets a kick with improved shift points and firmness. Of course, this would be even better if the car were only driven for the selected mode, but sometimes I catch myself thinking I still have it in sport mode and trying to step on it. This doesn't go so well with the reduced performance and wrecks my mileage, lol. If driven correctly, the ECO mode (drive) will definitely help you get to 50MPG. The sport mode, alternatively, will help you get to 22MPG. HAHA! Another option is (obviously) a fuel change, to help boost mileage, but ethanol free is hard to find and expensive...


----------



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

limited360 said:


> Click here...Let me google that for you
> 
> for specifics on a 'tune' you should email the 'tuner'... Not to be rude but getting sick of this being asked...


Kinda feel the same, but we're here to help each other. I'll always help where I can, and direct to help when I can't.


----------



## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

NickD, the main thing the tune does is raise the boost, remove the torque management and adjust the fuel and timing maps accordingly. Without a tune you won't see any peak gains in power due to to the factory tune using torque management.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Been through the turbo boost thing, like 40 years ago, good way to blow an engine, only way to get around that is to completely rebuild the engine with much heavier components. Okay for the drags, but not a daily driver you need to get to work or school with. Think you are referring to this>

"*2011 Chevrolet Cruze 1.4L Turbo Tuning Now Available!* 

It's been a busy few weeks here at Trifecta! We purchased a Chevy Cruze LTZ a few weeks ago, and as you might expect it didn't stay stock for too long. We've been busy tuning and tweaking and managed to get a gain of about 36HP and 54TQ on an otherwise completely stock vehicle. This is a 31% gain in HP and 38% gain in torque! Check out the dyno section for the official dyno sheet! We are setting the retail price on our Cruze tune at $350, and will be offering the tune for $300 for the rest of the year as an introductory offer (includes transmission tuning)."

Yes that is very possible.

Only way I could get a manual transmission was to wait six weeks and order one, this lets me have absolute control over the shift points. Consistently show 50+ mpg in 5th gear driving at 32 mph, but not very wise in traffic, could end up with an 18 wheeler parked up my exhaust pipe. Drops to 46 mpg in sixth gear at 45 mph, but with only 24 hours in a day and long distances to travel, can't do that.

My state should heard a thing or two when ethanol did severe damage to my other vehicles in WI, now 91 octane ethanol free is available at practically all gas stations, except in the Milwaukee area. It costs 20 cent more per gallon, but does give me a 20% improvement in fuel economy. Ethanol wouldn't last five minutes if our state would quit subsidizing it and follow federal EPA requirements in its manufacturing process. Sure increased the price of meat and dairy products though. So why isn't everybody screaming?


----------



## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

Engine and turbo technology have come a long way since the Corvair....


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

You can increase boost on typical motors to an extent as long as you ensure that you aren't getting any knock. Knock is the killer. The Cruze comes with hardened internals from the factory for longevity, and I'm fairly certain those components will be able to sustain the power added with the Trifecta tune. 

Of course, improving airflow is also very important. Great amounts of PSI are not useful; its just pressurized air being heated up and having nowhere to go. On most cars, an intake, ported/aftermarket heads, cams, headers, and exhaust components will help get that air through the engine more quickly and improve performance. 

I'll run the Trifecta tune when a couple more years have passed and it has proven to be reliable. Not enough real-world testing on these engines to determine long-term longevity IMO. The facts indicate that there shouldn't be an issue, but time will tell.

Best bang for the buck though is improving performance without spending any money. Free performance is the best bang for the buck, and for a stock Cruze, bypassing the intake resonator and convoluted plumbing by removing the intake tube between the airbox and the resonator is the best modification. Past that point, you're spending $50 for a drop-in K&N filter or $200+.


----------



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

I agree with skilz. Now, the computer in the car is specifically looking for things that would harm the engine and the motors that are being built nowadays are very carefully engineered. This 1.4 is looking to be a stout and reliable engine.


----------



## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You can increase boost on typical motors to an extent as long as you ensure that you aren't getting any knock. Knock is the killer. The Cruze comes with hardened internals from the factory for longevity, and I'm fairly certain those components will be able to sustain the power added with the Trifecta tune.
> 
> Of course, improving airflow is also very important. Great amounts of PSI are not useful; its just pressurized air being heated up and having nowhere to go. On most cars, an intake, ported/aftermarket heads, cams, headers, and exhaust components will help get that air through the engine more quickly and improve performance.
> 
> ...


You are correct on the knock... the question is does the calibration have enough authority in the knock control to dial it back far enough, quick enough...

Engine technology has come a long way yes, but the electronics are the saving graces... specifically the diagnostics which happen to be my specialty...


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> You are correct on the knock... the question is does the calibration have enough authority in the knock control to dial it back far enough, quick enough...
> 
> Engine technology has come a long way yes, but the electronics are the saving graces... specifically the diagnostics which happen to be my specialty...


Well, we can't rely on the PCM to save us from our knock. Any knock is bad knock, and KR is lost power, lost efficiency, and consequently lost fuel economy. 

Take the 3800 Supercharged motor for example, GM L67 available in several Buicks and Pontiacs. Some of them come with insignificant amounts of knock even from the factory with 9PSI. The Eaton M90 really is a heat factory. You can drop the pulley a few sizes and get to 13PSI, and you you will knock even more and the PCM will pull even more timing. Drop even a few more pulley sizes and the inevitable is a chipped piston. There's only so much a PCM can do.


----------



## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Well, we can't rely on the PCM to save us from our knock. Any knock is bad knock, and KR is lost power, lost efficiency, and consequently lost fuel economy.
> 
> Take the 3800 Supercharged motor for example, GM L67 available in several Buicks and Pontiacs. Some of them come with insignificant amounts of knock even from the factory with 9PSI. The Eaton M90 really is a heat factory. You can drop the pulley a few sizes and get to 13PSI, and you you will knock even more and the PCM will pull even more timing. Drop even a few more pulley sizes and the inevitable is a chipped piston. There's only so much a PCM can do.


That's not what I was implying... I was stating that I do not believe the PCM has enough range on its knock control... plus I assure it pulls timing before a knock event. I have calibrate both the base engine side of knock and the diagnostic side of knock... The factor of safety GM would have would be large, but is it enough for us tweakers?

And I will rely on the PCM to save me... as its the only thing control the spark!!!


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> That's not what I was implying... I was stating that I do not believe the PCM has enough range on its knock control... plus I assure it pulls timing before a knock event. I have calibrate both the base engine side of knock and the diagnostic side of knock... The factor of safety GM would have would be large, but is it enough for us tweakers?
> 
> And I will rely on the PCM to save me... as its the only thing control the spark!!!


Range on knock control? That's certainly not a term I've heard on the hptuners board or elsewhere for that matter. I'm guessing you meant the ability to prevent dangerous amounts of knock? Naturally, the PCM can't save you from yourself.

In the time I spent tuning L67s, the moment a ping was registered, the PCM would pull timing by a set number of degrees until the timing stopped. If by "pulls timing before knock" you mean to say that the PCM has tables and parameters to configure that allows you to adjust timing based on running conditions so that knock never has a chance to occur, then I agree with you, those parameters are indeed present and I would assume that they are used well. The PCM should be set to pull a set amount of timing based on intake air temp as well as engine coolant temp in order to account for variations in weather and driving environment. 

Why not rely on supporting mods to save your craving for more power? Things like intakes, exhaust, colder plugs, and adequate scanning and tuning to prevent the slightest bit of knock before it even happens? When I dropped form a 3.8" to 3.4" pulley a while back on my L67, I installed a 2.5" custom exhaust, high flow cat, 180 t-stat, headers with 3" downpipe, colder plugs, CAI, and had hood vents to reduce engine bay temps. Since most people could run a 3.4" pulley with just a bigger downpipe, I wanted to be sure I wouldn't have any issues. I did not have any issues running into knock while tuning that motor. At WOT, I was able to achieve 18 degrees of spark advance from 2500rpm on up to redline with zero KR. That car never registered any KR.

At least on the L67, GM didn't kept the engines running what I'd call safe. They went with the "good enough" ideology. "We'll tune to pull timing above 100 degrees IAT and so long as stock motors don't have more than 8 degrees of KR, they'll survive." I mentioned previously, even stock motors had KR. Nobody blew them, but it was there nonetheless. In fact, on the w-body platform (not entirely sure about others), GM made some pretty stupid decisions, like inserting a useless "U-bend" in the exhaust to restrict airflow. Removing that bend and replacing it with a straight pipe is one of the first modifications people make on those cars. 

On the Cruze, 87 octane is "good enough." A few degrees of KR that doesn't kill the engine just fine according to GM. Going up to 91/93 octane fixes that problem, but it does give you an idea of what GM considers "safe." 

A well tuned motor will have the necessary supporting mods in place so that you can tune safely without feeling like you have to pull timing everywhere. 

I have the feeling this engine has quite a bit of potential power to be released once more of those supporting mods become available and people can tune on their own, and that Trifecta's tune is on the safe side.


----------



## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Range on knock control? That's certainly not a term I've heard on the hptuners board or elsewhere for that matter. I'm guessing you meant the ability to prevent dangerous amounts of knock? Naturally, the PCM can't save you from yourself.
> 
> In the time I spent tuning L67s, the moment a ping was registered, the PCM would pull timing by a set number of degrees until the timing stopped. If by "pulls timing before knock" you mean to say that the PCM has tables and parameters to configure that allows you to adjust timing based on running conditions so that knock never has a chance to occur, then I agree with you, those parameters are indeed present and I would assume that they are used well. The PCM should be set to pull a set amount of timing based on intake air temp as well as engine coolant temp in order to account for variations in weather and driving environment.
> 
> ...



When I talk of myself doing calibration and tuning... I am talking at the OEM level, not some weekend warriors on a forum. Authority of knock control is widely used terminology at the OEM level. GM has a specialist whom only does knock control on the 1.4L turbo engine, he spends his entire year working only on that specific functionality of the software, both in car and on the dyno.

Its in GM's best interest to prevent any knock from occurring at all for a powertrain which has to last to 120,000 miles (in use warranty on emissions related components - EPA/CARB mandated)

I agree with supporting mods... hence I have ZZP pipes without CAT's... intake.. FMIC on its way... 

as an FYI... the 1.4L wasn't calibrated in the US, its base fuel was European 95 octane, hence we have the knock issues here stateside. Just cause you see KR on the OBDII scanner or your 'tuning' tool, that does not mean you are physically knocking... 

Last knock cal I signed off was on a twin turbo V8 super car (600hp)... that was a bit more complicated... but we don't need to go in depth on the strategy in a Bosch ME17 ECU...


----------



## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

ccasion14:


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> When I talk of myself doing calibration and tuning... I am talking at the OEM level, not some weekend warriors on a forum. Authority of knock control is widely used terminology at the OEM level. GM has a specialist whom only does knock control on the 1.4L turbo engine, he spends his entire year working only on that specific functionality of the software, both in car and on the dyno.
> 
> Its in GM's best interest to prevent any knock from occurring at all for a powertrain which has to last to 120,000 miles (in use warranty on emissions related components - EPA/CARB mandated)
> 
> ...


Good info. I enjoy learning about this. What is the equivalent of European 95 octane here in the states?

Perhaps things are different in 2012 than they were in 1997. If we see knock (or KR) on our OBD2 scan tool, then what is it if its not physical knock?

I wouldn't mind hearing more about that TT V8. 

Forgive me if I've sounded...abrasive. I'm genuinely inquisitive. I bounce around things I know with other people a lot and don't mind when I'm corrected.


----------



## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Good info. I enjoy learning about this. What is the equivalent of European 95 octane here in the states?
> 
> Perhaps things are different in 2012 than they were in 1997. If we see knock (or KR) on our OBD2 scan tool, then what is it if its not physical knock?
> 
> ...



No worries... my problem is I see the 'tuning' world from a whole different light...

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/McLaren-MP4-12C-In-Arizona.html :th_coolio: can't talk about it really sorry... 

What your reading KR is what the engine is pulling in order to prevent knock. Knock is detected via a sensor that is normally positioned between two cylinders (can 'hear' two cylinder for the price of one sensor). Calibrating that sensor is a disaster...you can go through multiple iterations of filters and amplifiers on the ECU in order to get it dialed in, normally this is done on the engine dyno. Once the calibration is dialed in for the sensor, you than look at the response vs. real world knock (on the engine dyno once again)... Once you get the calibration table populated for the amount of KR based on the sensor input you than test in vehicle in the hot climate... like Arizona :th_coolio: . The goal is to always have some KR prior to actual knock events. However is a give and take... as people will step into the gas pedal harder when you start to pull timing... which inherently causes more knock...

Diagnosis that sensor for plausibility is another whole disaster in itself.

I can go all day about this stuff... I always come off like an A$$ so sorry if I did...


----------



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Good to be spreading knowledge, go on as long as you'd like, lol.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> No worries... my problem is I see the 'tuning' world from a whole different light...
> 
> http://www.zercustoms.com/news/McLaren-MP4-12C-In-Arizona.html :th_coolio: can't talk about it really sorry...
> 
> ...


haha, it seems that we have that in common (coming off like an a$$). No worries. 

I have read that the knock sensor is very precisely tuned to hear the frequencies that engine knock produces for that given engine and that calibrating them is not simple.


----------



## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> haha, it seems that we have that in common (coming off like an a$$). No worries.
> 
> I have read that the knock sensor is very precisely tuned to hear the frequencies that engine knock produces for that given engine and that calibrating them is not simple.


I have dealt with packages where the ECU hardware did not match the sensor requirements... talk about bastardizing a calibration to make it work...


----------



## spensir23 (Sep 30, 2012)

I like stickers... and will a tune void the warranty?


----------



## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

spensir23 said:


> I like stickers... and will a tune void the warranty?


If there's engine damage that could be traced to a tune, then yes. From what I've read, though, on the OEM parts there's little chance of ever encountering a situation that would lead to damage. The OEM turbo is pretty small, and the 1.4T built very well. To get engine damage from too much boost, the turbo needs to be upgraded. That's expensive on this car.


----------



## gpolzin11 (Nov 1, 2017)

what tune would you recommend. everyone that i found is up there in price


----------



## gpolzin11 (Nov 1, 2017)

Patman said:


> Tune definitely!!!! 1.8 or 1.4 T. Don't have anything else and once I got the tune, didn't need much else. My car was brought to life! for @ $200


what tune would you recommend. everyone I found is way up there in price.


----------



## [email protected] (May 22, 2018)

Starting Out My 2011 Chevy Cruze Any Ideas For Mods Website.


----------



## Muz (Apr 15, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Starting Out My 2011 Chevy Cruze Any Ideas For Mods Website.


I have got a BNR (badnewsracing) tune and an AEM cold air intake kit. I would say the best way to go would be a BNR tune with a cold air intake kit. Then the BNR wastegate actuator (quicker spool and holds more boost in high RPM) and the bigger bosch injectors to allow for a more aggressive tune. If you can go the exhaust dump pipe without a catalytic converter and not cop a fine ($10000 AUD fine here in oz) that would be good too. I haven't done all these things myself, but based on my research it seems a very complete package if you can afford it.

http://store.badnewsracing.net/14-Turbocharged_c_32.html


----------



## Fear of sleep (Jun 26, 2021)

VictoryRed08 said:


> Stickers, lots of stickers.
> 
> Cheap and like +24hp...


I took your advice and omg the stickers are amazing thanks kind weirdo


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Fear of sleep said:


> I took your advice and omg the stickers are amazing thanks kind weirdo


LOL so your replying to posts from 3 to 4 years ago ??? If your looking for info on mods just ask. Several guys on here will typically shoot ya a link to info. Or do a search theres a lot of information buried in posts..


----------



## Fear of sleep (Jun 26, 2021)

Mr_Pat said:


> LOL so your replying to posts from 3 to 4 years ago ??? If your looking for info on mods just ask. Several guys on here will typically shoot ya a link to info. Or do a search theres a lot of information buried in posts..





Mr_Pat said:


> LOL so your replying to posts from 3 to 4 years ago ??? If your looking for info on mods just ask. Several guys on here will typically shoot ya a link to info. Or do a search theres a lot of information buried in posts..


Yeah & you're replying to me! HAHAHAHAHAHA😂😂😂 BTW, the stickers are working so wonderfully I mean I'd swear I was driving a porsche 911 (and to think this whole time all I needed was stickers.) 🤡🤡🤡🤡😂


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Fear of sleep said:


> Yeah & you're replying to me! HAHAHAHAHAHA😂😂😂 BTW, the stickers are working so wonderfully I mean I'd swear I was driving a porsche 911 (and to think this whole time all I needed was stickers.) 🤡🤡🤡🤡😂


Welcome to the forum!

Please take the time to introduce yourself in the New Member Introduction Section  so that we can get to know you better.


----------

