# Dexos2 And Equivalent Diesel Motor Oil



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

This thread is to discuss Dexos2 and equivalent motor oils for Cruze Diesel engines. 

GM has established a standard for motor oil used in its non-Duramax Diesel engines. This standard is called Dexos2 and it is available to license oils that meet the standard. 

Not all oil brands are willing to pay the licensing fee to GM so there are an undetermined number of oil formulations that meet the Dexos2 standard but are neither listed nor labelled as such. 

The following link provides the official listing of Dexos2 licensed oils. As it is subject to ongoing change I am providing the link only and not reproducing the list in this thread. 

GM dexos information center

The 2014 owners manual specifies that the LUZ engine in the North American Cruze Diesel is to operate on a 5W30 viscosity, or a 0W30 viscosity in "extreme cold temperatures".

The owners manual also states: "...you may use a substitute engine oil that meets ACEA C3 of the appropriate viscosity grade."


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Manny - you have written passionately about the factory fill for the LUZ engine, the AC Delco Dexos2 oil, and oils meeting similar standards such as those from BMW, M-B and VW. 

Andrei - you have offered to supply a European formulation of Amsoil to our community. 

Kory - motor oils are one of your areas of interest and specialization. 

So everyone, come on down! Let the discussion be vigorous and benefit our current and future diesel brethren.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I am disappointed that Amsoil isn't on that list, even though they have an oil that exceeds Dexos2 specifications. Either that list has not been updated, or Amsoil hasn't bothered to pay for the certification yet.

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## zr1000a1 (Jan 25, 2012)

I can understand paying a reasonable one time fee to get ones' oil certified, but extorting royalties is another thing. What if every car company decided that oil companies would have to pay for their special label. Next will be sparkplugs, and a new more expensive royalty for Dex-cool 2, and a royalty for cabin air filters, and $.15/gallon to get the new GM global top tier DEXFUEL label. Still trying to figure out how much Ford gets paid for the advertising of BP on their fuel caps. Maybe consumers need to say enough with passing along these fees to the end user too. With all the testing and standards associations around the world, and the old business of labeling meeting this or that brand's requirement should be enough. Everybody is looking how to create new revenue streams and to monetize everything at the expense of the loyal customer. "F" that! Had enough. Rant over....for now.


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## steveg241 (Jul 18, 2013)

I agree about the licensing. It is one thing to set forth specification and to have a fee for a testing program to verify compliance with the spec. But charging per liter sold is insane. Especially since the oil will probably meet multiple manufacturer specs. Why should GM get a fee for oil used in another brand car. I plan on using Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 which is ACEA compliant. However, Amsoil, Castrol, Shell and many other manufacturers make an acceptable oil that is not Dexos2 compliant but meeting the specs of ACEA 3 or better. 


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Some ones been paying attention .


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Okay - let's get serious for a moment. GM charges a one time licensing fee of $1,000 per product certification and $0.09 for every quart that carries their certification. 

If you can't afford an extra 45 cents per oil change then you really should be driving something else. 

Same thing goes for the Valvolines of this world that cry poor and won't pay the fee. My guess is that it's costing them way more in ink just to explain why they don't carry any certification.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I am disappointed that Amsoil isn't on that list, even though they have an oil that exceeds Dexos2 specifications. Either that list has not been updated, or Amsoil hasn't bothered to pay for the certification yet.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


List is dated May 13, 2013. 

I've got nothing against their oil but I don't ever remember Amsoil officially making the two other old GM certifications either. These were GM6094M and GM4817M that were last published in 2008. Then as now there were oils that claimed to meet or exceed the GM spec but didn't actually carry it.

EDIT: Yep, here's the 2008 version of GM Registered Products and Amsoil is not present. 

http://www.andersonperformance.net/oil_lists_02_2008.pdf


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## zr1000a1 (Jan 25, 2012)

Article talking about this situation and the certifications costs. They might be moving to a marketshare percentage, if they have not already.
Dexos 1- interesting reading

It is about principle and nipping this thing in the bud before it becomes a standard that all manufacturers start doing. Lets see, 25 manufacturers with their own certification system, charging royalties in line with GM on each bottle of oil. Geesh, this Super duper AMSBIL 1 extended life doflippey oil made of a blend of group 4, 5, and Area 51 top secret group 9 oils does not have the Tata sticker on it. Shucky darn, I just screwed up the warranty on my brand new Jaguiar Type magnuson-moss redline edition in British racing green, even though the other 24 certifications only cost an extra $2.16/qt, but still was not good enough. :grin:
Edit:
Let me reiterate, I am all for certs and specs, and the ability for a manufacturer to deny warranty claims if fluids that do not meet those specs are used. I have a problem with the royalty or % of profits in perpetuity. It is a devil at the crossroads, shark tank, sign on the dotted line for your soul kind of thing that I depise.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

steveg241 said:


> I agree about the licensing. It is one thing to set forth specification and to have a fee for a testing program to verify compliance with the spec. But charging per liter sold is insane. Especially since the oil will probably meet multiple manufacturer specs. Why should GM get a fee for oil used in another brand car. I plan on using Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 which is ACEA compliant. However, Amsoil, Castrol, Shell and many other manufacturers make an acceptable oil that is not Dexos2 compliant but meeting the specs of ACEA 3 or better.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I agree entirely.



Tomko said:


> List is dated May 13, 2013.
> 
> I've got nothing against their oil but I don't ever remember Amsoil officially making the two other old GM certifications either. These were GM6094M and GM4817M that were last published in 2008. Then as now there were oils that claimed to meet or exceed the GM spec but didn't actually carry it.
> 
> ...


I have zero doubt that Amsoil by a long shot exceeds specifications. It outperforms retail Mobil 1 products in all relevant categories and tests by a significant margin. I can post the tests if anyone needs to see them. 

The whole warranty issue is a moot point for me since my car will never suffer an oil-related failure with Amsoil. That's the peace of mind you have using the best oil in the industry regardless of specification. 

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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Dexos 1 and Dexos 2 are Licensing Standards Presented to the Engine Oil Manufacturers by GM and That is all they are . ,,,..,,,

I would think that it is my Educated assertion to utilize a specified or comparable product to lubricate My GM built Vehicle .


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

If we want to pull hairs, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 isn't dexos2 approved either then. Just 0W-40.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I agree entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree. I really think we're all too paranoid about this warranty issue.

I think he ONLY reasonany diesel owners are worried about which oil to use is for the warranty of the emissions systems. If you're worried about your engine blowing up because you run AMSoil in it, you need to get a life


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I have no doubt that Amsoil offers an excellent product. As I've already posted on this forum an objective study demonstrated that Amsoil offers the industry's best performing air filter, and one of its best oil filters. 

Why Amsoil does not invest the $1,000 to Dexos certify its oils is a question that only they can answer. Surely their sales would increase if they did. 

It occurs to me that some proponents of direct-marketed brands (Amway, Avon, Mary Kay, NuSkin, Tuperware, etc.) posses a deep faith in their respective products and whose advocacy may at times challenge even our own measure of Cruze enthusiasm. 

Now back to Dexos2 and equivalent motor oils...


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> If we want to pull hairs, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 isn't dexos2 approved either then. Just 0W-40.


It's not pulling hairs. It's a fact that Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 is not a Dexos2 licensed product. 

It it may very well meet or exceed the standard but Mobil has not had it tested by GM or paid the licensing fee.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

GM established its own motor oil standards to exceed those set by the API. These standards were put in place to first protect the vehicle operator from unnecessary failure and second to protect GM from unnecessary warranty costs. Other manufacturers (BMW, M-B, VW) have also put in place their own standards. 

Dexos1 and Dexos2 are just GM's current standards for motor oils. The difference with past practice is that GM licenses the use of the Dexos logo. The Dexos logo is intended as an aid to the consumer to quickly identify an oil meeting the standard, rather than spinning the bottle around and reading the fine print. To protect the integrity of the process, GM charges a nominal fee for this, thereby preventing fly-by-night operators from making misleading claims to the consumer.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

been using amsoil for years ,currently in my motorcycle, snowmobile, atv an will be in the cruze next week. case sitting on my bench 5w40 European mid saps meets dexos2 an acea3. friend of mine that I sell amsoil too will use no other oil in his race boat an I see his engines off season. where both mechanics by trade (myself 40 years) I don`t work for amsoil but their oil sure continues to work great for me!!


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## zr1000a1 (Jan 25, 2012)

http://www.acdelco.com.au/PDFs/oils/Specs_ACDelco_5W30_Dexos2Diesel.pdf

http://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/2012_ACEA_Oil_Sequences.pdf
ACEA C3 SAPS specifications:
Sulphated ash: = or <0.8
Phosphorus: = or >0.070, = or <0.090
Sulphur: = or <0.3
Also to consider ACEA A3/B4 specs, among others: 
http://www.oilspecifications.org/ilsac.php

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/api-sn.php

http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php
Issues are catalyst protection, and Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) protection. I do not think Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) system protection is much of an issue. Other issues would be about fuel economy additives in certain situations, especially when considering compatibility with wet clutches in motorcycles. These reliability or longevity protection concerns seems to come at the expense of long established engine protection additive levels. I feel in some respects we are going backwards. 
The levels of SAPS going down usually means it is at the expense of engine protection, being that these things are byproducts of long established friction reducers, detergent and extreme pressure additives.
Trying to find exact numbers that GM and it's DEXOS 1 or 2 levels specifications are, is being a P.I.T.A. for me. All I can do is look what the other requirements are that it specifies.
None of these SAPS oil specifications should make much of a difference if the engine does not burn oil. I would think the more prevalent concern would be levels of sulphur in the diesel fuel.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

So, if the Mobil 1 oil is of the wrong viscosity but certified as Dexos2, is it warranty compliant?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> So, if the Mobil 1 oil is of the wrong viscosity but certified as Dexos2, is it warranty compliant?


Any oils that meet or exceed the Dexos2 specification will not be able to be denied by GM for warranty work. 

GM is required to prove that the oil you used is what caused a given failure. When it comes to high quality full synthetics, a failure will never occur as a result of the oil. The specification is designed to protect GM against those who think they can just dump conventional oil into their engines and hope for the best. Since the synthetic oil options from Amsoil and Mobil 1 are of vastly higher quality than the factory oil, someone using the factory oil will be far more likely to have an issue than you would. 

Allow me to paint the picture I am trying to convey here. For example, GM fills our manual transmissions with an oil that does not lubricate our transmissions well and breaks down under heat and stress. It does not allow our synchros to function properly. We highly recommend Amsoil Synchromesh as the replacement, which vastly improves shifting quality and even alleviates to some degree a 1-2 shift grind that some people experience. Now, there is no doubt that Amsoil is the better fluid, but GM wants you to use their fluid. Say you had a manual transmission Cruze and used GM's fluid for 100k miles, and then your transmission blew a synchro at 120k miles. GM's liability of 100k miles would be satisfied and you would be out the cost of a rebuild. In hindsight, you'd look back and see that if you had used a better fluid, your problem could have been avoided. 

Another example is related to Mazdaspeed 3 owners. A while back, Mazda filled those engines from the factory with conventional oil. That's conventional oil on a turbo engine! People were losing turbos left and right because the oil was of crap quality, so Mazda bumped it up to a synthetic oil. You can make the argument that we should use what the manufacturer recommends and just let them deal with the warranty repairs, but my argument is that if Mazda owners had just used a full synthetic oil from the start, premature turbo failure could have been avoided. As such, the warranty aspect never comes into play as the higher quality fluid will extend the life of your lubricated components beyond what the factory fluid is able to accomplish. 

The bottom line is that people need to get over their fear of warranty claims. If you use a high quality synthetic oil and your engine has a failure, you can rest assured that the failure would have occurred with the factory fluid as well, and that other owners will also be experiencing the same failure, most likely sooner than you would. Always remember that by law in the United States, the manufacturer is required to prove that your "modification" caused a failure in order to deny warranty work. They cannot simply deny it on the basis of you not using their oil. 

Use a high quality synthetic oil in your vehicle and stop worrying about what will happen with the warranty. Your using a higher quality oil than what was originally filled in your vehicle will not cause a mechanical failure.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> So, if the Mobil 1 oil is of the wrong viscosity but certified as Dexos2, is it warranty compliant?


In a word, no. 

Warranty calls for the correct viscosity (5w30 or 0w30 for extreme cold) and the correct specification (Dexos2 or if unavailable ACEA C3). Page 10-14 of the owner manual.


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## zr1000a1 (Jan 25, 2012)

I have one major caveat to what is being said, that I personally follow. Although some automatic transmissions, especially of older generations were good with multi-vehicle fluids, I believe that it is imperative to stick with exactly what it was designed for and no multi or universal fluids. I would apply this to CVT's and possibly DCT's too. 
Manufacturers deny warranty all the time for wrong or universal transmission fluids. Then the company that did the exchange and or the manufacturer of the multivehicle transmission fluid might step up and cover the costs, while persuing the car manufacturer in court. Valvoline with it's Maxlife transmission fluid seems to have it's share of problems. This link below has a pdf that is really interesting about this. Also includes manuals of different car manufacturers like GM and Subaru and it's requirements for specific fluids. Subaru is clear to only use their engine oil with their new turbos.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/warrantyrules/00022-80832.pdf


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I agree with Andrei. GM is primarily interested in seeing your car through the warranty period. Oil based engine failures are rare these days within the warranty period. From my understanding those failures that do occur are more often attributed to owners not maintaining their oil levels, not changing their oil, or using the wrong grade or specification of oil; rather than a manufacturing defect. 

I have run all of my engines (including lawn mower and snow throwers) on the Mobil 1 formulation that met the old stricter GM4718M specification. I have not had a lubrication related issue in that time. You could say that I'm a true believer in the regular Mobil 1 formulation. 

I intended on running my diesel on Mobil 1 as well, but have discovered that they do not have a 5w30 viscosity that is registered as Dexos2. 

So I intended on using the AC Delco formulation but have learned that it is a semi-synthetic. And Manny has expressed that this was not used as our factory fill. 

I used Castrol GTX in my first car, but was not totally confident in it and felt validated when GM de-listed GTX in the mid-2000s. So I'm off Castrol. 

I have nothing against Amsoil, and have never heard a bad word about it. But they have never registered a product with GM under the old GM6094M and GM4814M specifications nor the new Dexos1 and Dexos2 specifications. So you could say that they've lost me there. 

Therefore, I am looking towards the Total Quartz INEO MC3 product that is a registered Dexos2 product. From what I can tell this oil is sold as a full synthetic in Europe and Canada, but may be cut down as a semi-synthetic in America. Total is a European company involved in Formula 1 racing and our engines are European. As a result I'm currently working on a group buy out of Canada for the full synthetic formula.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

zr1000a1 said:


> I have one major caveat to what is being said, that I personally follow. Although some automatic transmissions, especially of older generations were good with multi-vehicle fluids, I believe that it is imperative to stick with exactly what it was designed for and no multi or universal fluids. I would apply this to CVT's and possibly DCT's too.
> Manufacturers deny warranty all the time for wrong or universal transmission fluids. Then the company that did the exchange and or the manufacturer of the multivehicle transmission fluid might step up and cover the costs, while persuing the car manufacturer in court. Valvoline with it's Maxlife transmission fluid seems to have it's share of problems. This link below has a pdf that is really interesting about this. Also includes manuals of different car manufacturers like GM and Subaru and it's requirements for specific fluids. Subaru is clear to only use their engine oil with their new turbos.
> http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/warrantyrules/00022-80832.pdf


Automatic transmission fluids are another one of those things. Some vehicles require a specific fill procedure, such as the new Toyota Tundras. You cannot fill it correctly yourself and you have to take it to a shop that has the Toyota fill machine for that specific transmission. I think it's stupid to force the owner to stay out of the maintenance process, but I digress. 

With regard to what was said about certifications, I have no trouble recommending Amsoil almost universally for a very specific reasons: their products are superior. They are a special case in that they don't advertise heavily in the retail market and depend instead on independent dealers to sell their products. However, you will never find a single person saying a single bad thing about them (except in cases that can be easily narrowed down as user error), and that is for a good reason. Mobil 1 prides themselves in advertising that they make the unrivaled best fluid out there. Amsoil has tested and refuted this claim with their synthetic oils. 

The way I look at it, if Amsoil outperforms Mobil 1 full synthetic in all aspects, across the board, then what do certifications mean for me? In a word, nothing. Should any dealership attempt to have an oil testing analysis taken of your car with Amsoil in it, they will likely be pleasantly surprised by how well the oil is holding up. As I said before, I don't promote and sell Amsoil because I'm a dealer; rather I chose to be a dealer because they have the best products on the market, and this is not based on reputation alone. 

With regard to viscosity, my experience has been that it is far more dangerous to run a lower Viscosity than it is to run a higher one, and the difference in viscosity while hot between 5W-30 and 5W-40 is actually quite minimal. This is not the case with the cold specification. I've had friends destroy engines by running too low of a viscosity (accidentally filling 5W-20 instead of 5W-30), but not the other way around. I personally run Rotella T6 5W-40 in my wife's car, which calls for 5W-30. Rotella T6 is very widely recommended on many automotive boards including the Maxima forums as an excellent and affordable alternative to other 5W-30 spec oils. Manny mentioned quite a few times that the difference in viscosity when comparing Diesel-spec 5W-30 and 5W-40 is actually extremely minimal. I have personally verified this and in addition, I have also noticed that there is a significant variation in tested kinematic viscosity between oils of the exact same viscosity rating. As a result, the debate between whether to use 5W-30 or 5W-40 is a moot one in my opinion, especially when you consider that there are oils by several manufacturers that meet the Dexos2 specification that are advertised as 5W-40.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

|
|
|
My views are more or less consistent with you until this point. 
|


XtremeRevolution said:


> Manny mentioned quite a few times that the difference in viscosity when comparing Diesel-spec 5W-30 and 5W-40 is actually extremely minimal. I have personally verified this and in addition, I have also noticed that there is a significant variation in tested kinematic viscosity between oils of the exact same viscosity rating. As a result, the debate between whether to use 5W-30 or 5W-40 is a moot one in my opinion, especially when you consider that there are oils by several manufacturers that meet the Dexos2 specification that are advertised as 5W-40.


Manny was speaking about the factory fill oil when he said it was a heavy 5w30 - close to a 40. I have seen some diesel 30 oils described as a 38 on other boards. Manny also mentioned that the factory fill was a special oil that we should keep in the crankcase for 10K. 

I believe GM takes very seriously what it publishes as viscosity specifications for its engines. I don't believe that the engineers who make these decisions do so casually. Therefore in my view if they intended the non-factory fill oil to be a w40 they would have printed that. But they identified only two viscosities for the LUZ engine and both are w30. 

A w30+ may be fine for factory fill but it may not be right for post-factory fill service. 

Years ago, GM specified 10w30, or 10w40 severe service, for its engines. They stopped specifying w40 after it was discovered that engines operating at high temperatures would sludge up on w40. Seems counterintuitive but that's what happened. 

In my view, our engines are too new in America for any of us to know better than GM's engineers. So my personal decision is to stay with the w30 viscosity. 

Furthermore, I feel it would be misguided to interpret any Dexos2 oil as compliant irregardless of viscosity. Dexos specification is independent of viscosity, and viscosity is independent of Dexos specification. 

Of course you're free to experiment and innovate with your own engines and report back to us on how things worked out. But please don't tell us that GM sold you a POS, or didn't honour your warranty, if you didn't follow their specifications.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I would like to know the composition of the GM Dexos2 - what percentage of synthetic etc. Any ideas on how we can get this info?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

This link is pretty interesting... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...EJyVEtlc041TjVVUjJ1U01FMUx1VVE&hl=en_US#gid=0


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> This link is pretty interesting... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...EJyVEtlc041TjVVUjJ1U01FMUx1VVE&hl=en_US#gid=0


That's cool but I'm not sure what to make of it on my iPad.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Tomko said:


> That's cool but I'm not sure what to make of it on my iPad.


I am not sure the source of the data but had the ash content and other info of the GM brnaded Dexos2


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

zr1000a1 said:


> I have one major caveat to what is being said, that I personally follow. Although some automatic transmissions, especially of older generations were good with multi-vehicle fluids, I believe that it is imperative to stick with exactly what it was designed for and no multi or universal fluids. I would apply this to CVT's and possibly DCT's too.
> Manufacturers deny warranty all the time for wrong or universal transmission fluids. Then the company that did the exchange and or the manufacturer of the multivehicle transmission fluid might step up and cover the costs, while persuing the car manufacturer in court. Valvoline with it's Maxlife transmission fluid seems to have it's share of problems. This link below has a pdf that is really interesting about this. Also includes manuals of different car manufacturers like GM and Subaru and it's requirements for specific fluids. Subaru is clear to only use their engine oil with their new turbos.
> http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/warrantyrules/00022-80832.pdf


Why won't you be running the Mobil 1 ESP (5W-30)? I thought this oil was a Dexos2 equivalent?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> |
> |
> |
> My views are more or less consistent with you until this point.
> ...


I see no reason why an engine could run a 5W-40 spec oil for 10k miles and potentially cause issues if run for any fluid change thereafter. The concept does not make any sense. I'm not an engineer by any means but this one doesn't make sense at all. 

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## DieselEnvy (Jun 22, 2013)

I used Castrol *SLX Professional LL03* 5W-30 in my Common Rail TDI.........'cause that's the flavor that VW recommended (507.00 compliant, low ash, etc...), and that's what the dealer stocked. I noticed that it is ACEA C3 compliant as well.

I reviewed the dexos2 document, and saw that several Castrol oils are dexos2 compliant, but the SLX Professional LL03 is not specifically listed. I'm wondering what the difference is between the "SLX Professional LL03" and say...the "Edge Professional OE"...

It would be rather convenient for me to stop by the 'ol VW dealer when it comes time to buy oil...


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## DieselEnvy (Jun 22, 2013)

> Well I wounder were you got that idea I been telling every one on here Use the VW oil and no one listen to the tech ...I have a migraine .


In one eye, and out the other, I guess... :tututtongue4:


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## zr1000a1 (Jan 25, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Automatic transmission fluids are another one of those things. Some vehicles require a specific fill procedure, such as the new Toyota Tundras. You cannot fill it correctly yourself and you have to take it to a shop that has the Toyota fill machine for that specific transmission. I think it's stupid to force the owner to stay out of the maintenance process, but I digress. ...
> ...With regard to viscosity, my experience has been that it is far more dangerous to run a lower Viscosity than it is to run a higher one, and the difference in viscosity while hot between 5W-30 and 5W-40 is actually quite minimal. This is not the case with the cold specification. I've had friends destroy engines by running too low of a viscosity (accidentally filling 5W-20 instead of 5W-30), but not the other way around. I personally run Rotella T6 5W-40 in my wife's car, which calls for 5W-30. Rotella T6 is very widely recommended on many automotive boards including the Maxima forums as an excellent and affordable alternative to other 5W-30 spec oils. Manny mentioned quite a few times that the difference in viscosity when comparing Diesel-spec 5W-30 and 5W-40 is actually extremely minimal. I have personally verified this and in addition, I have also noticed that there is a significant variation in tested kinematic viscosity between oils of the exact same viscosity rating. As a result, the debate between whether to use 5W-30 or 5W-40 is a moot one in my opinion, especially when you consider that there are oils by several manufacturers that meet the Dexos2 specification that are advertised as 5W-40.


 I agree. They are making transmission checks and servicing more complicated for the home mechanic. I did not realize the Tundra was such a PITA for transmission service. On the other hand, some of the newer transmissions with drain and fill plugs do have their advantage. Especially the ones where you fill till it overflows, then you know you are at the right level. Run for a while, then recheck or top off. Seems like my old Dakota 4x4, the differentials (pumpkins) had different fill levels for front and back. Something like fill to a ¼ inch from top on one, and ½ on the other, instead of letting you fill till overflow. Nothing like fingering your hole while you fill, trying to gauge how full. But I digress, getting back to filling the differential.........
Luckily my 2010 Pontiac Vibe base 1.8 still has a dipstick and a drain plug on that antiquated 4-speed. I am appreciating that car more and more, including the tranny and it's dipstick as the years go by. The 4 speed transmission is pretty decent too, but again I digress. It took 15-18k miles to get it broke in enough for gas mileage to go up. I wonder what role the Toyota and Mobil 1 0w-20 might of played in the long break in period. If I were using Amsoil I probably would still be waiting for a break in! For a car EPA rated at only 26 city and 31 highway, I am now getting low to mid 30's in mixed driving. Listening to 70aarcuda and his experience with the Vibe and gas mileage was beneficial! Just needed to be patient. She has turned into a good little runner, purrs like a kitten. The Vibenator is not too shabby either. Think I might name her Devine. 

When it comes to viscosity of some oils, they say that the regular PCMO Mobil 1 20's are on the heavy side, and the 30's are on the lighter side.
I do like the the Rotella T6 5w-40 synthetic in my motorcycle, even though I have a somewhat high revving engine and a wet clutch sharing the crankcase oil. There are some mixed results on BITOG with it because of the excessive shearing some engines with wet clutches do. Must be mostly group 3 base with more viscosity improvers than a more expensive group 4 or 5 oil, but I rarely put over 1500 miles on my Zed before I change the oil. The T6 tends to give me that buttery smooth shifting longer than the Kawa oils, and a few other 10w-40's I have tried. Engine seems quieter too.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I see no reason why an engine could run a 5W-40 spec oil for 10k miles and potentially cause issues if run for any fluid change thereafter. The concept does not make any sense. I'm not an engineer by any means but this one doesn't make sense at all.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I'm pretty active on another board. There's another member who works on the inside and has been very helpful to others. As a former warranty administrator he posted the following. 



MrCritical said:


> He can buy a crappy oil filter that does a poor job or put the wrong weight oil in his engine causing it to prematurely fail, and that won't be warrantable either. (PS-engineers can tell in an engine failure if you've been running the wrong weight oil-CSI has nothing on these guys).


The thread was about altering the Powertrain programming and it's effects on warranty coverage. The entire thread, and especially the posts of MrCritical, are of interest to those whose financial situations causes them to rely on their warranty. 

You can read it here:

Hypertech?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Here's a bit more info. Looks like GM Dexos2 is Mid Saps Vauxhall Introduces GM's dexos2 Engine Oil


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> Here's a bit more info. Looks like GM Dexos2 is Mid Saps Vauxhall Introduces GM's dexos2 Engine Oil


Good find!


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Amazing how hard it is to find good, thorough info on this oill. It does seem like it's been around for a while.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Few links I found that report on the specs of these oils:

Fleetcare G2 5W-30
Genuine Gm Dexos 2 High Quality Oil - Buy Motor Oil Product on Alibaba.com
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140003691861_201010140218.pdf

And here's a gem. 

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6773/myastradexos2.jpg

This was GM's Dexos2 oil after 2000km, in a 1.4L Opel Astra. There's something important to note, which I have stated and re-stated several times here. The viscosity is unusually high. Blackstone labs doesn't know why either, but Manny and I both said that it is very high for a 5W-30 oil and is a lot closer to 5W-40 than it is to 5W-30. This report confirms my findings. 

If anything, running any oil other than a 5W-40 oil like Manny and I have recommended or GM's Dexos2 (which is a crap non-synthetic oil), will be a *lower *viscosity than the GM fluid. Further research shows that the only reason why Dexos1 is even used in the US instead of Dexos2 (note - all GM vehicles in Europe use Dexos2), is because Dexos1 is a lower viscosity oil that helps GM meet CAFE standards. In other words, the lower viscosity is used for fuel economy purposes only.

This discovery further reinforces that any non-GM 5W-30 is in fact a lower viscosity fluid than what you would get changed at the dealer, and that the 5W-40 diesel-spec oils that have been recommended are in fact very close to what the GM fluid actually tests at. 

*Furthermore*, a bit of searching on google.co.uk shows that dealerships out there in fact do fill their 2.0L Turbo Diesels in the Cruzes with 5W-40 *or *5W-30 engine oil, and that their owner's manuals specify 5W-40 oil.

What Oil do you use in your Cruze? - Holden - Automotive
Chevrolet Cruze engine oil capacity in quarts – liters | Engine Oil Capacity for All Vehicles
Correct engine oil for diesel - Cruze 2.0L Diesel - Chevrolet Cruze Forum
Diesel Cruze not Fast-Starting anymore - Holden - Automotive

It should be abundantly clear by now that GM uses both 5W-30 and 5W-40 Dexos2-spec oil around the world for 2.0L Turbo Diesels, and that since the GM Dexos2 oil is in fact right in the middle between the viscosity of 5W-30 and 5W-40, there would not be any adverse effects from using either.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

|
|
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Some great sleuthing there Andrei. 
|


XtremeRevolution said:


> This discovery further reinforces that any non-GM 5W-30 is in fact a lower viscosity fluid than what you would get changed at the dealer, and that the 5W-40 diesel-spec oils that have been recommended are in fact very close to what the GM fluid actually tests at.
> 
> *Furthermore*, a bit of searching on google.co.uk shows that dealerships out there in fact do fill their 2.0L Turbo Diesels in the Cruzes with 5W-40 *or *5W-30 engine oil, and that their owner's manuals specify 5W-40 oil.
> 
> It should be abundantly clear by now that GM uses both 5W-30 and 5W-40 Dexos2-spec oil around the world for 2.0L Turbo Diesels, and that since the GM Dexos2 oil is in fact right in the middle between the viscosity of 5W-30 and 5W-40, there would not be any adverse effects from using either.


A couple of simple questions to reflect on given the above:

1) Why did GM publish in the owner manual only two viscosities for RPO LUZ; both w30?

2) Why did GM emblazon the LUZ engine crankcase cap with *dexos2 5w30*?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> |
> |
> |
> Some great sleuthing there Andrei.
> ...


According to what I have found, they did it in order to meet CAFE standards for fuel economy. As I noted in my previous post, retail 5W-30 is in fact significantly lower in viscosity than GM's DEXOS2 "5W-30." 

While I have no proof of the following statement, I can speculate that forcing owners to use a very unpopular weight for a diesel oil (5W-40 and 0W-40 is far more common), would also force owners to use their dealerships for oil changes, or at least purchase the oil (at a premium) from GM.

Page 285-286 of the UK Cruze Owner's Manual actually appears to specify both 5W-30 and 5W-40 for more than just one engine. 

http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/pdf/manuals/om_cruze_kta-8301_2-en_eu_my13_ed0812_21_en_gb_online.pdf


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> According to what I have found, they did it in order to meet CAFE standards for fuel economy. As I noted in my previous post, retail 5W-30 is in fact significantly lower in viscosity than GM's DEXOS2 "5W-30."


So if I follow your hypothesis that w30 was specified for fuel economy reasons; would that mean that a w40 oil would impair fuel economy?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I was thinking about all this and have a question for y'all. It seems like the general consensus is that GM branded Dexos2 sucks, but I haven't seen any conclusive proof. I mean, if it meets C3, doesn't that mean it will do its job just fine?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> I was thinking about all this and have a question for y'all. It seems like the general consensus is that GM branded Dexos2 sucks, but I haven't seen any conclusive proof. I mean, if it meets C3, doesn't that mean it will do its job just fine?


In actuality we have very few validated facts to work with. 

1) We know for a fact the AC Delco 5w30 oil is a synthetic blend. 

2) We know for a fact that it is a dexos2 registered product. 

Anything else we we know about this oil comes from unvalidated posts around the Internet. 

I had previously suggested to Manny that he send a sample of his surplus 10 litre bottles to Blackstone - but I don't know if he's had a chance to action that.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> So if I follow your hypothesis that w30 was specified for fuel economy reasons; would that mean that a w40 oil would impair fuel economy?


I'm not entirely sure to be honest with you. If it does, I don't see it being a consequential difference but it would have to be tested. 

The data I've seen shows the GM DEXOS2 oil being a theoretical "5W-35" spec oil, if such an oil were to exist. Any oil you use will deviate from that in either direction. My further reading on BITOG indicates that 5W-40 oils are perfectly fine to use in engines that call for 5W-30, but may result in decreased fuel economy...or increased fuel economy, depending on the engine. The 5W-40 oil would provide better high-temperature protection (re: turbo). It seems to revolve mostly on efficiency. 

It's a matter of power, efficiency, and protection, and any oil weights used will conflict in those categories depending on which one you go with. The way I would word it is that 5W-40 is _*not required*_ by GM, but that doesn't mean that it will not work. With the GM factory fill and subsequent oil changes being right in the middle between the two weights, I hypothesize that GM labeled your manual as 5W-30 to squeeze every last bit of fuel efficiency and get away with the lowest viscosity possible. 

The research I did over the weekend indicated that there are no adverse effects to using a 5W-40 oil when a 5W-30 oil is specified in any car that I've researched. 



diesel said:


> I was thinking about all this and have a question for y'all. It seems like the general consensus is that GM branded Dexos2 sucks, but I haven't seen any conclusive proof. I mean, if it meets C3, doesn't that mean it will do its job just fine?


It is not a full synthetic oil from what I have read, which is a problem when you are running a turbo, especially one that is exclusively oil-cooled. You have to remember that there's a difference between "meets specifications" and "exceeds specifications." I prefer the latter.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> In actuality we have very few validated facts to work with. 1) We know for a fact the AC Delco 5w30 oil is a synthetic blend. 2) We know for a fact that it is a dexos2 registered product. Anything else we we know about this oil comes from unvalidated posts around the Internet. I had previously suggested to Manny that he send a sample of his surplus 10 litre bottles to Blackstone - but I don't know if he's had a chance to action that.


There a few things that don't need to be validated. For example, you can find clear references to the use of 5W-30 and 5W-40 in GM's engines out in the UK, both gasoline and diesel, in the owner's manual. Here is a blackstone labs report for GM's 5W-30 DEXOS2 oil, which I posted in a previous post. Here, you can clearly see the kinematic viscosity at high temperatures, which you can then use to compare to 5W-30 and 5W-40 oils. 

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6773/myastradexos2.jpg 

One thing to note is that one of our members, Hoon, actually filled his 1.4T with 5W-40 oil. His findings were that the viscosity at high temperatures remained nearly identical, the oil provided better protection, and fuel economy remained unchanged. I would recommend reading through the entire thread. 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-1-4l-turbo/9527-so-i-put-diesel-oil-my-1-4t-other-day.html

One very important note is that GM recommends the use of DEXOS2 5W-30 as a replacement for vehicles requiring 5W-40 oils. That's some pretty strong validation. See Page 3.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I hate to say it but this is common sense. 5W-40 is just fine. The other car I was heavily considering was a 2014 Mazda 6. In the USA manual it spec'ed 0W-20 ONLY. The rest of the world 5W-30! Exact engine! It's ONLY for MPG. The Cruise diesel is no different. Including the many examples of this motor running across the pond. There is no secret code, no fireworks, 5W-40 is just fine. The dexos2 specification is to make sure people put an oil in their car with appropriate ash level. Since every single car with a DPF system has their own "special" designation that's not special at all compared to the others, they had to make theirs too. After-all I wouldn't expect GM to recommend I use oil that meets VW or Mercedes requirements. 

With a little common sense I think we have access to plenty of great, functional oils here stateside. No they can't void your warranty if you use an oil that meets dexos2 requirements that isn't labeled as such. In the worse, least likely, you should go play the lottery circumstance that anyone has to face this problem, they could just have the virgin oil tested at a lab to prove it meets the requirements. The dexos2 label is just a dummy-proof guide.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I hate to say it but this is common sense. 5W-40 is just fine. The other car I was heavily considering was a 2014 Mazda 6. In the USA manual it spec'ed 0W-20 ONLY. The rest of the world 5W-30! Exact engine! It's ONLY for MPG. The Cruise diesel is no different. Including the many examples of this motors running across the pond. There is no secret code, no fireworks, 5W-40 is just fine. The dexos2 specification is to make sure people put an oil in their car with appropriate ash level. Since every single car with a DPF system has their own "special" designation that's not special at all compared to the others, they had to make theirs too. Afterall I wouldn't expect GM to recommend I use oil that meets VW or Mercedes requirements.
> 
> With a little common sense I think we have access to plenty of great, functional oils here stateside. No they can't void your warranty if you use an oil that meets dexos2 requirements that isn't labeled as such. In the worse, least likely, should go play the lottery circumstance that anyone has to face this problem, they could just have the virgin oil tested at a lab to prove it meets the requirements. The dexos2 label is just a dummy-proof guide.


Keeping in mind that lubricants are a personal interest of yours, here's what I glean from your post:

1) Those seeking maximum fuel economy should use a w30. 

2) If you don't use a dexos2 registered product, or if you don't use a w30 oil, you should feel free to proclaim this clearly to your dealership because they can't invalidate your warranty. 

Please correct me if I've misinterpreted your post. 

BTW I agree on the logo being a dummy-proof guide.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Keeping in mind that lubricants are a personal interest of yours, here's what I glean from your post:
> 
> 1) Those seeking maximum fuel economy should use a w30.
> 
> ...


The warranty issue is a moot point for me personally because I already witnessed GM trying to ram Dexos1 down people's throats on a 10k mile OCI, which would be guaranteed to cause long-term problems. I am far more concerned with the quality of my oil than with the status of my warranty, when GM's obligation is only 100k miles. You could use a synthetic blend for 100k miles and change it every 10k like the 2011 and 2012 OCI would recommend and it would run for 100k miles, till it starts sludging up and giving you problems. If it was a lifetime warranty, then I wouldn't care what oil is used, but it's not. 

Those who are concerned that a superior oil would cause an oil-related failure can subject their cars to the crap GM puts in there, but I'm not of that mentality.

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## MrCritical (Oct 2, 2013)

May I offer a different perspective? I currently own an '11 Cruze 2LT, and one of my many jobs in GM dealerships in the past 30+years has been warranty administrator. I'd like to address a couple of the points brought up in the thread if that's ok. While my Cruze isn't diesel, I do work with the Duramax on a daily basis, and the occasional oil related engine failure. Firstly, according to GM's engineers, the wrong viscosity (as far as engine failures go) will usually cause sticking rings on GM vehicles (usually too heavy an oil). GM powertrain engineers can detect an engine failure due to the wrong viscosity oil with technology that would make "CSI" look stupid. Secondly the standard for Dexos and licensing is important because oil companies have been known to meet the standard, get retested later, and be found to no longer meet the standard (has happened many times). While most engineers are shall we say lacking in the social graces, many are geniuses in what they do. Why take the chance for a few pennies a quart? As for dealers installing the wrong viscosity oil, that would be a dealer to avoid, wouldn't it? Believe it or not, all the representatives I've worked with want you to get every repair under warranty you're entitled to. But they don't want to give away anything you're not entitled to, either. Not following simple maintenance instructions isn't your brightest move.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MrCritical said:


> May I offer a different perspective? I currently own an '11 Cruze 2LT, and one of my many jobs in GM dealerships in the past 30+years has been warranty administrator. I'd like to address a couple of the points brought up in the thread if that's ok. While my Cruze isn't diesel, I do work with the Duramax on a daily basis, and the occasional oil related engine failure. Firstly, according to GM's engineers, the wrong viscosity (as far as engine failures go) will usually cause sticking rings on GM vehicles (usually too heavy an oil). GM powertrain engineers can detect an engine failure due to the wrong viscosity oil with technology that would make "CSI" look stupid. Secondly the standard for Dexos and licensing is important because oil companies have been known to meet the standard, get retested later, and be found to no longer meet the standard (has happened many times). While most engineers are shall we say lacking in the social graces, many are geniuses in what they do. Why take the chance for a few pennies a quart? As for dealers installing the wrong viscosity oil, that would be a dealer to avoid, wouldn't it? Believe it or not, all the representatives I've worked with want you to get every repair under warranty you're entitled to. But they don't want to give away anything you're not entitled to, either. Not following simple maintenance instructions isn't your brightest move.


The perspective is appreciated, but what is your personal analysis of this situation? 5w-30 oil is supposed to have a kinematic viscosity at 100C of 8.8-11.8. The GM DEXOS2 5w-30 comes in tested at 13 and the 5w-40 oils are around 14.3. This puts the GM fluid smack dab in the middle. Furthermore, finding that European Cruzes use the 5w-40 oils brings further questions as to "how high of a viscosity is too high." If it works for Europeans, then the difference can't be mechanical. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Basically what he's saying is that do you really want to fight the best lawyers money can buy when something probably other then using a high quality mid-ash 5W-40 non-dexos2 labeled oil certified by every other vehicle manufacturer running an almost identical complex emissions system on the planet makes your engine take a dump and GM immediately tries to screw you


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm not trying to be a hard @$$ on this one guys - but here's the thing...

I lived through the LF9 debacle that poisoned domestic diesel ownership for the North American continent for nearly 30 years. 

There were many causes, and GM has its share of the blame. But one of the causes was owners, mechanics and even dealers pouring the wrong oil into the crankcase. 

I don't want to see that repeated. 

We here on Cruze Talk are highly influential in the broader ownership world. While there may only be about a dozen diesel owners here, there's another ~1,500 Cruze diesel owners in North America who are googling and reading our posts. 

We are opinion leaders. We are early adopters. Our words posted here carry a very loud and influential resonance with those other casual owners who are not prosumers or aficionados as we are. 

It would be an abuse of the power inherent in that influence if we were to misguide someone. 

I understand that it is a part of our American psyche to distrust authority in all of its forms, and since November 22, 1963, not to believe what we are told. I know that this has extended into our culture to even include questioning such mundane things as an owner manual. 

It is also a part of our culture to not accept personal responsibility wherever some faceless entity can be blamed. Since starting on the Internet almost 20 years ago I've read seemingly thousands of people blame GM for building and selling them a POS. I can think of less than ten who admitted to not following the service schedule. This thread stands as an example of people willing to disregard the 'authority' of the manufacturer's requirements and innovate and freelance something that in their wisdom eclipses that of the engineers who designed, tested and built our vehicles. 

In my parents' generation it was a distrust of doctors and other educated people. Today we distrust corporate America and all that it stands for. 

In conclusion, ask yourself one question: If you owned a brand new Ferrari, Maserati, Bugatti, would you disregard the owner manual oil specifications to go with a non-recommended option that you believed was better based on something that you picked up somewhere?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> I'm not trying to be a hard @$$ on this one guys - but here's the thing...
> 
> I lived through the LF9 debacle that poisoned domestic diesel ownership for the North American continent for nearly 30 years.
> 
> ...


I discuss issues not on rhetoric, but on technical merits. Let me put you in a different position. 

If GM calls for 5W-30, and we know that the GM fluid exceeds the hot viscosity ratings of 5W-30 fluid, are we to trust the owner's manual with an aftermarket fluid, or use the GM fluid?

If you answered GM fluid, then your decision was based on fear of warranty repercussions even though it is an inferior base 3 fluid that is not fully synthetic. If you answered 5W-30, you are questioning the quality of the GM fluid (and rightly so) but also running a lower viscosity than GM would have originally put in there. 

Now, my distrust of "authority" is not without merit, and I tried to make this clear in more threads than this one. With the introduction of the Cruze, GM spec'd a Dexos1 synthetic blend fluid and calibrated the oil life monitor at up to and even over 10,000 miles with light driving. Oil testing analysis unanimously proved that this fluid was not suitable to go past 6,000 miles on a good day, and GM dealership mechanics resounded that conclusion. Thus, we had owners who were exceeding their usable oil life by a significant margin in the name of being under warranty. For the 2013 model year, GM changed the oil life monitor calibration to run 2000-3000 sooner oil changes. Coincidence? Definitely not. 

GM made a mistake and silently fixed it. They did it with the spark plug gaps. They did it with the automatic transmission fluid capacity as specified in the owner's manual. 

Now, you tell me what will happen when an owner fills a 5W-30 as per the oil cap that is DEXOS2 certified with a kinematic viscosity of under 10.0 when the GM 5W-30 uses a kinematic viscosity of ~13.0 at 100C. I would be concerned. 

We do have a great responsibility to provide truthful information and an unspoken liability for our statements, but will we recommend sticking with the GM fluid despite knowing better? We have co clouded without any shadow of a doubt that the Dexos1 fluid and manual transmission fluid are of poor quality for these particular vehicles, so the odds are not looking good for Dexos2 and the tested viscosity inconsistency is not a good start. 

Seeing our friends and dealerships across the sea using 5W-40 in their engines begs a different question. 

I will ask a contact at GM if 5w-40 is a suitable engine to use. I happened to have interviewed him at the Chicago auto show. He is the chief engineer for the diesel engine in the Cruze. Rather suitable person to ask, I'd think...

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I discuss issues not on rhetoric, but on technical merits.


Wonderful. I'm going to hold you to that. 



XtremeRevolution said:


> If GM calls for 5W-30, and we know that the GM fluid exceeds the hot viscosity ratings of 5W-30 fluid, are we to trust the owner's manual with an aftermarket fluid, or use the GM fluid?
> 
> If you answered GM fluid, then your decision was based on fear of warranty repercussions even though it is an inferior base 3 fluid that is not fully synthetic. If you answered 5W-30, you are questioning the quality of the GM fluid (and rightly so) but also running a lower viscosity than GM would have originally put in there.


Andrei, I know your a busy guy. And I don't want to flatter myself to believe that you read all of my posts. But I have posted several time how I am a Mobil 1 lifer and have decided not to use the AC Delco oil due to its semi-synthetic status. I will not use Mobil 1 as it does not have a dexos2 registered product in the specified 5w30 viscosity. I am going to be using the full synthetic Total Quartz INEO MC3 5w30 a dexos2 registered oil. 



XtremeRevolution said:


> I will ask a contact at GM if 5w-40 is a suitable engine to use. I happened to have interviewed him at the Chicago auto show. He is the chief engineer for the diesel engine in the Cruze. Rather suitable person to ask, I'd think...


Mike Siegrist? Please, I beg of you to do this and report back to us. If he says w40 is good to go, please also ask him why it was not specified by GM anywhere in writing for the LUZ engine. 

Now please answer my question as posed earlier: If you owned a brand new Ferrari, Maserati, Buggati, etc, would you disregard the owner manual oil specifications to go with a non-recommended option, that you believed was better, based on something that you picked up somewhere?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Wonderful. I'm going to hold you to that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I apologize for not answering your question earlier. If I had an expensive sports car, I would use their oil and I'd also be able to afford to have them service it. However, I think I know where you're going with this, and here is why I don't believe the comparison to be valid. Forgive me if I'm going off in a totally incorrect direction. 

Ferrari's concern would be ultimate protection, longevity, and performance in high stress environments. They would be using a Group 5 oil similar to Amsoil. 

GM's concern in small cars is cost. They want the vehicle to be as efficient to build as possible. They proved that by using a Group-3 level Dexos1 synthetic blend, *in a turbo vehicle*. Just like the ability to use 87 octane in our 1.4L Turbo engines, the idea revolved around low maintenance and cost-efficiency. If GM came up and told you that you needed to use a full synthetic in this car and that your oil changes would cost you as much as that of a high performance car, you'd blow steam.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I apologize for not answering your question earlier. If I had an expensive sports car, I would use their oil and I'd also be able to afford to have them service it. However, I think I know where you're going with this, and here is why I don't believe the comparison to be valid. Forgive me if I'm going off in a totally incorrect direction.
> 
> Ferrari's concern would be ultimate protection, longevity, and performance in high stress environments. They would be using a Group 5 oil similar to Amsoil.
> 
> GM's concern in small cars is cost. They want the vehicle to be as efficient to build as possible. They proved that by using a Group-3 level Dexos1 synthetic blend, *in a turbo vehicle*. Just like the ability to use 87 octane in our 1.4L Turbo engines, the idea revolved around low maintenance and cost-efficiency. If GM came up and told you that you needed to use a full synthetic in this car and that your oil changes would cost you as much as that of a high performance car, you'd blow steam.


Agreed. GM builds us these great cars for a specific cost. They are very conscious of recommending premium fuel even in Cadillac. 

The Cruze is targeted towards a budget oriented owner who would no react well to the costs of a full synthetic oil change. 

As I recall, GM used to require full synthetic in the Northstar engines and the Corvette engines (also used in the Cadillac V series) only.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Agreed. GM builds us these great cars for a specific cost. They are very conscious of recommending premium fuel even in Cadillac. The Cruze is targeted towards a budget oriented owner who would no react well to the costs of a full synthetic oil change. As I recall, GM used to require full synthetic in the Northstar engines and the Corvette engines (also used in the Cadillac V series) only.


 Now consider that the Turbo Diesel is also in the category of "economy car." Granted, it's a flagship economy car, but still an economy car, and a Chevrolet, not a Cadillac. While the Dexos2 oil is likely to be higher quality than the Dexos1 oil, I can assure you it will not be a Group 5+ oil like Amsoil is. I'm sure Manny can provide additional details with regard to this if you would like to hear more.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

GotDiesel? said:


> Andrei Sorry I am going to start trouble...
> *MrCritical*
> 
> Guess What I used to do for VWAG? Take a guess Ok here is a real good one for you , ask mrcritical about the lousy 5w-30 blended oil and the CCV placement and how long till our EGR clog up???? Humm??? and will ahem warranty cover the gunk mess that will happen in time due to the bad placement of the CCV system.. Oh you say that wont happen because we has ULSD ..right....Hey guys are you worried about oil are you now ....I would be more worried about your CCV system and the EGR gunk that will happen in a short time ..


Manny - I'm glad you're still with us. I was starting to wonder after you hadn't posted in a few days. 

This CCV stuff is valuable info - so don't you think it would be best in its own thread and not buried here in the dexos2 thread?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Manny - I'm glad you're still with us. I was starting to wonder after you hadn't posted in a few days.
> 
> This CCV stuff is valuable info - so don't you think it would be best in its own thread and not buried here in the dexos2 thread?


I will create a new thread on it in the how-to section as well.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

Hmmm, none of these problems happen with the Oz/Asian/European Cruze diesel, mine is coming up on four years of age and 70000km, it's had either "whatever the Holden dealer has put in" or Mobil "1 - for diesels" when it's been serviced, and it is fine.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but then diesel road cars are common in Oz/Asia/Europe. And although our dealers _are_ stupid, they don't seem to make those sorts of mistakes very often.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It is not a full synthetic oil from what I have read, which is a problem when you are running a turbo, especially one that is exclusively oil-cooled. You have to remember that there's a difference between "meets specifications" and "exceeds specifications." I prefer the latter.



I had a Chrysler Laser XE Turbo a few years back. I know that's a gasoline engine but that turbo got HOT when driven hard, and I drove it hard all the time. Synthetic oil never went into the crankcase and the turbo was fine after 175K miles when I sold the car. Frequent oil changes were done, however, and the turbo was always allowed a cool down period after driving. So, based on my personal experience a dino oil (blend) would be just fine in a car with a turbo, providing the OCI was adjusted accordingly.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

GotDiesel? said:


> *Does a turbo engine require a cool down period?*
> 
> Yes, a Turbo requires a cooling down time. How long a time really depends on how hard the car was driven prior to wanting to turn it off.
> 
> ...


Yes, I've heard of turbos coking motor oil in their bearings. 

This cool down period is generally achieved by the slow driving required in parking lots or neighbourhoods before shutting the engine off.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

That reminds me (a bit off topic) I went to go look at an Audi A6 2.7T a few years back. Was owned and driven by a lady who lived at the top of a steep driveway. I had arrived before her and heard her pull up, turbo spinning full blast and then she immediately shut it off. That told me everything I needed to know about that car!


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

But anyway, back to my original point, I do believe that the GM Dexos2 will be fine for this engine long term within most operating conditions.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

And much to my amazement, the kinematic viscosity of those 5W-40 oils is extremely close if not identical to what is advertised for diesel-spec 5w-30 oils. In fact, GM's 5W-30 tested over the spec, while these 5w-40 oils tested at the correct spec for 5w-30 oils. 

Basically what we've been saying all along. 

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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Oh, I will go with a synthetic once the free oil changes are complete. I've already had 3 of them and never left the oil in the crankcase for more than 6 weeks so I am sure it's going to be fine. I do agree 100% with you that synthetic is a better choice, however. But I still see no conclusive proof that the GM oil is indeed "crap". (Yes I am sort of playing devil's advocate here)


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I think I will send a sample off for analysis. That ought to be interesting.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I am far from an expert on oil, that's for sure. I am learning a lot from this board. I do agree with you Manny, but there are plenty of people out there who will use the Dexos2 because it's what it says to use in the owner's manual. It will be interesting to see the long term effects. Maybe the engine is robust enough to tolerate the oil?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I wish we had a GM engineer on the forum - most specifically the one who designed the Dexos2 and specified it for this engine. Would be interesting to hear what (s)he has to say.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Can you find that for the GM Dexos2? I tried but could not.


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## anomalophobe (Sep 27, 2013)

So what are we trying to accomplish here?

If you're worried about the GM warranty, then take your car to the dealership and let them do their job. At the end of 36,000 miles, you'll have a decision to make: continue servicing your car at the dealership or do the work yourself.

If you continue the service at the dealership, then there is NOTHING you need to worry about relating to GM. If you choose to change your own oil, then go buy the GM oil, and get to work.

HOWEVER, if using GM oil happens to be the "wrong" decision, you won't see it in the first 36,000 miles - by that time, the damage has been done, and problems will appear later when you're FULLY responsible for the repairs.

Will GM tell you that their oil caused the problem that you're now paying for? The techs at the dealership won't have a clue - they're working to make money by completing repairs, not contemplate the decisions of the GM engineers.

If your goal is to extract the absolute best performance and endurance from your engine, then you've got to open your spectrum of knowledge to possibilities that go beyond the decisions of the GM engineers, because their job is to protect GM assets - they look at the lowest common denominator across a multitude of factors, most of which are NOT tied to technical data but rather to the bottom line.

Ultimately, you must take responsibility and make the decision that makes sense to your bottom line.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Keep in mind I am completely on board with using a good synthetic oil of the proper viscocity and proper specs. I've just been playing devil's advocate to enhance the discussion :laugh:


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

We get it. Why beat a dead horse? People will gather the facts and decide for themselves. I've expressed my opinion pretty clearly and if no one cares my car is still happy  

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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

It's not really a dead horse... more like conjecture and one opinion vs. another. All that being said, nobody has provided *conclusive proof *that this oil is, in fact, bad. Give me some hard data. At this point, we aren't even 100% sure who makes the oil, much less any hard, cold data about it. Certainly at least somebody can agree with me on this?

Think about all the people who buy this car now and discover the forum 100K miles from now and unnecessarily freak out because they've been using GM Dexos2 for the past 5 years, thinking they are doing something good. I know GM has screwed up in the past, but I personally feel like they worked hard to get this engine right.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> It's not really a dead horse... more like conjecture and one opinion vs. another. All that being said, nobody has provided *conclusive proof *that this oil is, in fact, bad. Give me some hard data. At this point, we aren't even 100% sure who makes the oil, much less any hard, cold data about it. Certainly at least somebody can agree with me on this?
> 
> Think about all the people who buy this car now and discover the forum 100K miles from now and unnecessarily freak out because they've been using GM Dexos2 for the past 5 years, thinking they are doing something good. I know GM has screwed up in the past, but I personally feel like they worked hard to get this engine right.


A synthetic blend is as good as it needs to be in order to be "good enough." Again, GM's liability is 100k miles or 5 years. 









Says it right on the bottle. Synthetic blend. I assume I don't need to explain why it is so important to use a full synthetic with a big oil-cooled turbo with today's high-tolerance technology. 

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> It's not really a dead horse... more like conjecture and one opinion vs. another. All that being said, nobody has provided *conclusive proof *that this oil is, in fact, bad. Give me some hard data. At this point, we aren't even 100% sure who makes the oil, much less any hard, cold data about it. Certainly at least somebody can agree with me on this?
> 
> Think about all the people who buy this car now and discover the forum 100K miles from now and unnecessarily freak out because they've been using GM Dexos2 for the past 5 years, thinking they are doing something good. I know GM has screwed up in the past, but I personally feel like they worked hard to get this engine right.


Well I think it is overblown in both directions, hence the dead horse. It's been made clear over and over that the factory fill is adequate at best. The MOCO feels it will service their respectable powertrain warranty without a blink. If you're looking for extended service from your motor (200+K) I think you ought to consider higher quality lubes. If you use GM's dexos2 5W-30 for the first 24,000mi taking advantage of the free service I doubt you'll harm a **** thing. 


Manny, not trying to be a smart-ass. It just seems like you're pleading with people to listen to you on this and I'm just saying why waste the breath. If they don't want to listen to a knowledgeable person after you make your point clear once or twice why keep trying? 

I doubt Mr. Critical is going to sit here and plead with us to use 5W-30 dexos2 oil. He made a pretty clear, comprehensive, post and that's all that is needed.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I assume I don't need to explain why it is so important to use a full synthetic with a big oil-cooled turbo with today's high-tolerance technology.


whats the expected lifespan of these turbos or similar use?

ive gone 400,000 miles on turbos (trucks went off lease after 3yrs) on big trucks w/o full syn


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

boraz said:


> whats the expected lifespan of these turbos or similar use?
> 
> ive gone 400,000 miles on turbos (trucks went off lease after 3yrs) on big trucks w/o full syn


Not a fair comparison. Diesel trucks are designed completely differently. 

Turbo should last a good 200k miles if well taken care of.

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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Sorry, but a more "realistic" estimate is probably only *100,001 miles*, as GM doesn't "give away" anything for free.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> Sorry, but a more "realistic" estimate is probably only *100,001 miles*, as GM doesn't "give away" anything for free.


With the synthetic blend formula, I wouldn't be surprised if this ended up being the case for some people.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Anybody recall the "Zippo Ford Pinto's" and how *Ford* found it "less costly" (translated: cheaper) to payout damage settlements than it was to "fix" the vehicles? Well, *GM* did the exactly the samething with their "side-saddle" gas tank pickups. 

So, obviously, GM knows how to play this trump card when it comes to 'high-cost' items such as engines, transmissions, and turbochargers, etc. 





P.S. - We had three different Pintos: 1972 SW, 1972 Sedan, 1976 Pony SW


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I have probably already spent too much time thinking about this.  What about all those late '70's and 80's Mercedes turbo diesels that never saw a drop of synthetic and ran several hundreds of thousands of miles on their original turbos?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> I have probably already spent too much time thinking about this.  What about all those late '70's and 80's Mercedes turbo diesels that never saw a drop of synthetic and ran several hundreds of thousands of miles on their original turbos?


Different turbos, different tolerances, different designs and different materials. Why is this not obvious? 

I can turn right back around and say what about the Mazdaspeed3 owners who had their dealers fill with dino oil and were dropping turbos left and right with only 25k miles. 

Listen, the experts on this board have told you repeatedly that these turbo cars need a full synthetic oil to protect them and that the GM dexos2 synthetic blend oil is a "get you by" oil, used instead of a synthetic for cost reasons. If you refuse to believe that, then run the GM synthetic blend and call it a day, but I feel like most of us are arguing a point that we have understood for 2 years here to be common knowledge and you're trying to think up reasons why it's not so, comparing 30 and 40 year old cars. 

These engines and turbos were designed around a specific oil quality and it is in your best interest to stop wasting time, and chalk up the $10-$15 each oil change (seriously you spent how much on this car) and use a full synthetic. 

Why anyone would continue to suggest that we go to such great lengths to justify a $15 premium every 10k miles on a $25,000 car is beyond me. 

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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Amen !!


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Why don't you guys now focus on your EGR/CCV that will be an issue.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Different turbos, different tolerances, different designs and different materials. Why is this not obvious?
> 
> I can turn right back around and say what about the Mazdaspeed3 owners who had their dealers fill with dino oil and were dropping turbos left and right with only 25k miles.
> 
> ...


100%


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

GotDiesel? said:


> Amen !!


I second the Amen!!


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

All those "Amens"...do we have a "Church of Diesel Cruze Disciples" or something?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Halleluiah!


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I tend to be the lone wolf on this board more often than not. But it's all good, this has ended up being quite an interesting thread. Now, if we can only get GM to change their Dexos2 formula....


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

diesel said:


> I tend to be the lone wolf on this board more often than not. But it's all good, this has ended up being quite an interesting thread. Now, if we can only get GM to change their Dexos2 formula....


My thoughts exactly, about both this thread and the Amsoil one.

I never knew how much was involved in it. Sheez.


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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

Has anyone tried to see if during the free maintenance period we could pay the difference between the basic oil change and getting full synthetic in there? That way we could at least take advantage of the free perks we got when we bought the car...


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## steveg241 (Jul 18, 2013)

I tried that Luigi, but the dealers around me don't have any of the correct oils stocked. Two dealers said they would put in Mobil 1 for an up charge, but wouldn't use Mobil 1 ESP. They said they couldn't order it. They also didn't know of any available Dexos2 full synthetic oils they could purchase. I believe at this point it is not just an education problem, but a supply problem with full synthetic Dexos2 oil availability in the US.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

steveg241 said:


> I tried that Luigi, but the dealers around me don't have any of the correct oils stocked. Two dealers said they would put in Mobil 1 for an up charge, but wouldn't use Mobil 1 ESP. They said they couldn't order it. They also didn't know of any available Dexos2 full synthetic oils they could purchase. I believe at this point it is not just an education problem, but a supply problem with full synthetic Dexos2 oil availability in the US.


This precisely is the reason why I am securing my own supply of dexos2 registered 5w30 synthetic oil. 

With only ~1,500 Cruze diesels on the road, and GM planning to sell just 12,000 for the model year, we early adopters will have to look after ourselves if we want anything more than the AC Delco semi-synthetic.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Here's an excellent oil for these cars right on Amazon. dexos2 Approved 5w-40

Motul 5 Liter 8100 5W40 X-CLEAN C3 -505 01-502 00-505 00-LL04-229.51-229.31-Porsche A40-FORD 917A-GM Dexos2 : Amazon.com : Automotive


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Interesting. According to Wikipedia Motul invented the first semi-synthetic and the first 100% synthetic motor oils.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

i want 0w30


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Tomko said:


> Interesting. According to Wikipedia Motul invented the first semi-synthetic and the first 100% synthetic motor oils.


Yes they make great oil, lots of it geared towards racing and high demand applications. AKA excellent for a demanding hot running turbo diesel engine  

I was just poking around today and found it readily available on amazon from a racing dealer in Ohio. I've been digging deeper and our 2.0 engine uses 5w-40 in different areas of the world. I think it's nuts to think it will harm a thing but I respect worrying about your warranty due to the wording or lack of it in the manual. (It says nothing about 5w40). Interesting that GM has a dexos2 approved 5w-40 on their list. 

5w-30 is obviously perfectly fine too.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I've been digging deeper and our 2.0 engine uses 5w-40 in different areas of the world. I think it's nuts to think it will harm a thing but I respect worrying about your warranty due to the wording or lack of it in the manual. (It says nothing about 5w40). Interesting that GM has a dexos2 approved 5w-40 on their list.
> 
> 5w-30 is obviously perfectly fine too.


Earlier in the thread Andrei mentioned that he would contact Mike Siegrist? to clarify this point. 




XtremeRevolution said:


> I will ask a contact at GM if 5w-40 is a suitable engine to use. I happened to have interviewed him at the Chicago auto show. He is the chief engineer for the diesel engine in the Cruze. Rather suitable person to ask, I'd think...


I'm not sure if Andrei's had a chance yet.

If he says w40 is good to go, I hope he also explains why it was not specified by GM anywhere in writing for the LUZ engine.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Earlier in the thread Andrei mentioned that he would contact Mike Siegrist? to clarify this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Still waiting on a response for that. Due to the liability concerns with a question like that, I suspect the answer will be rather generic and may take another week to get but we'll see.

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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

GotDiesel? said:


> Here is an oil you can use as well in the Cruze .
> 
> Total OIL QUARTZ INEO 5W30 504/507 5L (802233)
> 
> ...


But it does say dexos2 on the bottle. 

I have posted several times that this full synthetic, dexos2 registered oil, at the correct 5w30 viscosity, is what I've decided to use. 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-c...equivalent-diesel-motor-oil-3.html#post470498

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-c...-diesel-owners-ontario-quebec-upstate-ny.html


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> But it does say dexos2 on the bottle.
> 
> I have posted several times that this full synthetic, dexos2 registered oil, at the correct 5w30 viscosity, is what I've decided to use.
> 
> ...


It doesn't have to say Dexos2 on the bottle. It does, however, have to meet Dexos2 specifications. I went over this previously in the Amsoil Questions thread.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It doesn't have to say Dexos2 on the bottle. It does, however, have to meet Dexos2 specifications. I went over this previously in the Amsoil Questions thread.


In Manny's original post (now deleted) he said that it did not carry the dexos2 logo. 

I corrected him by pointing out that the Total Quartz INEO oil he recommended did in fact carry the dexos2 logo. 

This is is the fourth time I notice Manny posting a valuable contribution to our discussions only to delete his post a few minutes later.


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Tomko said:


> This is is the fourth time I notice Manny posting a valuable contribution to our discussions only to delete his post a few minutes later.


He deleted it himself, not Xtreme, not any of us.


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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

after calling a few dealers around here, I found one that claims to be using this oil for cruze diesels. Mobil Super™ 3000 Formula G 5W-30


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

Luigi said:


> after calling a few dealers around here, I found one that claims to be using this oil for cruze diesels. Mobil Super™ 3000 Formula G 5W-30


I was pretty set on Mobil 1 ESP 5W30, but this looks very interesting. If the dealers are able to order this, this just might be the oil to use and just pay the difference on. It also looks to be dexos2 approved. Nice find!


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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

PlasticPlant, Where are you located? You may be close to the dealer I called. You on the IL side?


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

Luigi said:


> PlasticPlant, Where are you located? You may be close to the dealer I called. You on the IL side?


I'm near Gurnee on the IL side. I was comparing the two and it does look like the ESP is the "better" oil, but not by much. Like I said, if the dealer can order this and they would allow us to just pay the difference this just might be the oil to go with (assuming it's a full synthetic).


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

After giving this topic some additional thought and discussing the matter with Tomko in more detail, I have decided to recommend Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 for Diesel owners until I have a chance to do some additional research. Despite being a dealer for Amsoil, I have realized that I would rather people use an oil that we know for a fact is approved with our engines than make a recommendation that I cannot indisputably defend. In that regard, I know that the Mobil 1 oil will be of very high quality, and significantly higher quality than GM's Dexos2 oil. 

While I can make an argument in support of 5W-40 oils due to the viscosity of the GM 5W-30 blend, I will await a response from my contacts at GM before making an official recommendation.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Luigi said:


> after calling a few dealers around here, I found one that claims to be using this oil for cruze diesels. Mobil Super™ 3000 Formula G 5W-30


I am impressed that a dealer in the US would even think of using something like this! Must be some good SA and/or parts people at that dealership. How much per quart? Is there a GM part number or something I can tell my dealer to look up?


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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

diesel said:


> I am impressed that a dealer in the US would even think of using something like this! Must be some good SA and/or parts people at that dealership. How much per quart? Is there a GM part number or something I can tell my dealer to look up?


It is $8.32/qt, and he said there should be no issue with just paying the difference when getting the free services. I can get more info on it if you would like. I just called and asked the parts guy what full synthetic dexos 2 oil they had. That was the 3rd dealer I called though. The rest didn't have any. I will see what else I can find out. 

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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Luigi said:


> after calling a few dealers around here, I found one that claims to be using this oil for cruze diesels. Mobil Super™ 3000 Formula G 5W-30





diesel said:


> I am impressed that a dealer in the US would even think of using something like this! Must be some good SA and/or parts people at that dealership. How much per quart? Is there a GM part number or something I can tell my dealer to look up?





Luigi said:


> It is $8.32/qt, and he said there should be no issue with just paying the difference when getting the free services. I can get more info on it if you would like. I just called and asked the parts guy what full synthetic dexos 2 oil they had. That was the 3rd dealer I called though. The rest didn't have any. I will see what else I can find out.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


This is fabulous. I've looked for that oil but couldn't find it. It's on the dexos2 registration list. Please keep us informed.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Luigi said:


> It is $8.32/qt, and he said there should be no issue with just paying the difference when getting the free services. I can get more info on it if you would like. I just called and asked the parts guy what full synthetic dexos 2 oil they had. That was the 3rd dealer I called though. The rest didn't have any. I will see what else I can find out.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Thanks, I appreciate it!


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

diesel said:


> I am impressed that a dealer in the US would even think of using something like this! Must be some good SA and/or parts people at that dealership. How much per quart? Is there a GM part number or something I can tell my dealer to look up?


Yes, a GM Part number would be great!


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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

Well this is confusing...It's GM part number 88865157, according to the parts department. He said it's the recommended oil for the CTD. When I spoke with service, they said that they use the ACDelco synth blend oil...but the part guy assured me that gm part number 88865157 is in a Mobil 1 bottle and says full synthetic...but I can't find anything online that says this.

Edit: apparently that part number is for the AC Delco... http://paceperformance.com/i-13698644-88865157-acdelco-dexos2-engine-oil-5w30-1-liter.html
but for some reason he assured me 3 times that he went and grabbed the bottle, and its mobil 1 full synthetic.

Edit 2: I can only find the oil that I linked on the mobil UK site...there is no listing of it on the US site...wtf


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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

So i called them back, and what he said was that GM hasn't started producing/packaging the AC Delco synth blend oil yet, so for now what they have is the Car Engine Oils | Products | Mobil Super™ 3000 XE 5W-30
It's slightly different from the previous one I linked to, but he read me everything from the front of the bottle and this is it.


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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The perspective is appreciated, but what is your personal analysis of this situation? 5w-30 oil is supposed to have a kinematic viscosity at 100C of 8.8-11.8. The GM DEXOS2 5w-30 comes in tested at 13 and the 5w-40 oils are around 14.3. This puts the GM fluid smack dab in the middle. Furthermore, finding that European Cruzes use the 5w-40 oils brings further questions as to "how high of a viscosity is too high." If it works for Europeans, then the difference can't be mechanical.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Regarding this...the oil that I have just linked to in my previous post, under tech specs, it states "cSt @100C is 11.9" which would be fairly close to the GM stock of 13, and this is a 5w-30 oil.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Luigi said:


> So i called them back, and what he said was that GM hasn't started producing/packaging the AC Delco synth blend oil yet...


I have a bottle of it right here and Manny has a dozen he was trying to give away.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Luigi said:


> Regarding this...the oil that I have just linked to in my previous post, under tech specs, it states "cSt @100C is 11.9" which would be fairly close to the GM stock of 13, and this is a 5w-30 oil.


Note I specifically said tested. I'm not concerned with what is advertised. 

Also, I posted this picture before. 









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## Luigi (Jun 16, 2013)

Then I have no idea why they have the Mobil oil in place of the AC Delco...but as long as I get it..i don't care.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Luigi said:


> Then I have no idea why they have the Mobil oil in place of the AC Delco...but as long as I get it..i don't care.


10-4


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## ParisTNDude (Oct 7, 2013)

In all of my many years around cars of all sorts with all kinds of modifications in race, high speed European driving, and routine driving, I've never known anyone who experienced an engine failure proven to be caused by engine oil performance. I would think GM would have trouble proving what sort of oil was in your crankcase. JMO


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

*Dexos2 motor oil*

Amsoil makes a European Car Formula 5W-40 Mid SAPS Synthetic Motor Oil (AFLQT-EA) that is ACEA C3 rated, API SN/SM/CF rated and Dexos2 rated as well as the Ford/Chrysler/Renault/Volkswagon ratings.

I am seriously considering using this oil in my Cruze as from what I have read, the GM AC Delco oil just meets the necessary standards for the ratings. Amsoil is well above the standards and still has the best engine wear rating on the market.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

I've been using their Low-SAPS 5w-30 European for 3 oil changes now.


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

the 5W-30 will likely be okay, not sure, but it is not ACEA C3 rated and/or Dexos2 rated.


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

As an aside can anyone tell me where the water filter is on the 2.0 diesel? I looked but cannot see it.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

I know that it meets/exceeds both C3 and Dexos2 spec. so I didn't worry too much about the certifications. I mostly wanted to get as low as possible on the SAPS because the emissions equipment on the car can be so sensitive at times. Also wanted to stick with the specified viscosity so as not to raise warranty questions or risk obstructing flow through small passages, particularly in the turbo. I know others have used the 5w-40, though without problems. I'm on my 3rd emissions sensor issue in 45,000 miles right now (O2, then EPS, now NOX2), and I'm sure it traces to a questionable oil being used back at my 6000 mile service.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Amsoil does not have a registered dexos2 oil. 

dexos2 Brands | GM

However, they do have an oil recommended for our application. Xtremerevolution has provided that recommendation in the past. 

Plenty has been written about this subject over the last two plus years and can be found in the diesel sub forums.


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## AWJustus22 (Feb 19, 2015)

John, the fuel filter is accessible by moving the passenger-side aero pan located under the car. It's held on by several plastic nuts and one regular bolt at the front near the passenger footwell. Others on the forum say you can get by without fully removing the regular bolt fully, but I found it easier to just remove the aero pan and put it out of the way. Kind of a PITA that there isn't an access panel for our fuel filters, but I guess GM couldn't justify the expense of a diesel-only aero pan.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

John Richard said:


> Amsoil makes a European Car Formula 5W-40 Mid SAPS Synthetic Motor Oil (AFLQT-EA) that is ACEA C3 rated, API SN/SM/CF rated and Dexos2 rated as well as the Ford/Chrysler/Renault/Volkswagon ratings.
> 
> I am seriously considering using this oil in my Cruze as from what I have read, the GM AC Delco oil just meets the necessary standards for the ratings. Amsoil is well above the standards and still has the best engine wear rating on the market.


been using this since day one. mid saps 5w40


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

AWJustus22 - Thank you for the info, it is much appreciated. I likely would never have found the darn filter myself if it is covered. thank again


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

Tomko, Amsoil did not pay the GM fee to register their oil to get the little circle with approved. But, the oil is still rated for ACEA C3 and Dexos 2 rated with better viscosity ratings and better cold flow ratings -40F to -32F, bit difference when you live in northern Canada where we do get the low temperatures.


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

revjpeterson - thanks for your reply. I was not aware that the 5W-30 was rated ACEA C3 and Dexos2 rated. I will look into this.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

John Richard said:


> revjpeterson - thanks for your reply. I was not aware that the 5W-30 was rated ACEA C3 and Dexos2 rated. I will look into this.


the only one that states dexos2 is the 5w40, sure the 5w30 is fine as well.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

dexos2 threads merged to maintain and build this body of knowledge.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

oilburner said:


> the only one that states dexos2 is the 5w40, sure the 5w30 is fine as well.


Correct. 

The primary concern is the SAPS level or the oil. The spec is primarily concerned with maximum allowed, so having a lower SAPS content would meet an even more stringent specification. 

I believe it was member "Diesel" that ran the low saps 5W-30 that AMSOIL makes, and noted substantially lower metallic wear per mile than the 4 or 5 previous oil changed with Total Quartz INEO MC3 in oil analysis, indicating that the reduced SAPS content does not compromise the oil's ability to protect. 

On the subject of viscosity, it is worth noting that some members are reporting notable levels of fuel dilution, which reduces viscosity. One of my customers was running the mid SAPS 5W-40, and after 10,000 miles, showed some fuel dilution and a viscosity that dropped clear to a 30 weight around 11.x cSt. I'll have to post the report in the appropriate thread.


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## DECruzer (Jul 19, 2015)

diesel said:


> I am impressed that a dealer in the US would even think of using something like this! Must be some good SA and/or parts people at that dealership. How much per quart? Is there a GM part number or something I can tell my dealer to look up?


Did you read my post from last month? http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-c...138897-first-oil-change-what-dealer-used.html


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

Thank you for your Liked post oilburner. it is appreciated. I have contacted Amsoil and they said that they will have a 5W-30 ACEA C3 / Dexos 2 rated oil out shortly. I guess it is obvious that I am an Amsoil dealer and have used the products for years and am very happy with the results. My wifes Honda, has over 400,000 kms and runs great, quiet, smooth and still only uses about a half quart per year. Hard to argue with that.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

John Richard said:


> My wifes Honda, has over 400,000 kms and runs great, quiet, smooth and still only uses about a half quart per year. Hard to argue with that.


my 3 cherokees have 1,000,000 + kms between them (400,000, 326,000, 295,000) , i use the cheapest 5w30 available, change the oil once a yr regardless of kms driven, always use a fram filter to drive the ninnies crazy....use no oil in between changes and run great, quiet smooth

nope, wasnt hard at all


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Correct.
> 
> The primary concern is the SAPS level or the oil. The spec is primarily concerned with maximum allowed, so having a lower SAPS content would meet an even more stringent specification.
> 
> ...


Yes that was me. Just bought some more.


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

Amsoil does have oils that meet the certifications, they just take time to pay the fees. Also, people forget that Amsoil is the only oil that I know that Warranties their oil, if something does go wrong and the dealer refuses to honour the warranty, Amsoil will take care of it and go after the dealer. i will also be going to the Amsoil PAO full synthetic, 5W-40 mid-saps, ACEA C3, Dexos 2 rated oil as soon as I get some kilometers on my vehicle. I just cringe when I know that what I have in there now is a synthetic blend crude oil based oil with a poor molecular structure that is much more vulnerable to shear and has contaminants and waxes in it that are not good for the system. PAO oil avoids all of this with a small molecular structure and no contaminants or waxes.


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

Actually Tomko, the manual states 5W-30 and if it is cold 0W-40 in the manual, not 0W-30. Not sure of the page, but it is 10 something under engine oil.


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

Actually Tomko, the manual calls for 5W-30 or if it is cold 0W-40. Page 10-something under engine oils. So, I would think that 5W-40 which has a -40 cold pour point compared to the ACDelco -36 cold pour point would work just fine.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

John Richard said:


> Actually Tomko, the manual states 5W-30 and if it is cold 0W-40 in the manual, not 0W-30. Not sure of the page, but it is 10 something under engine oil.


Are you looking at a 2014 or 2015 manual? I know my early-built 2014 says 0w-30 for cold weather, not 0w-40. Perhaps they changed it in a later printing of the 2014 manuals or for the 2015 manual. 









I know Chrysler did something similar with their 3.7L, 3.8L, and some other engines about 10-12 years ago. Those engines had always specified 5w-30 oil, but suddenly around 2005, they changed all the specs to 5w-20 without making any changes to the engine.


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

T0mko, I do apologize, I am reading it in my 2015 manual and they must have changed the rating to 0W-40 since 2014. Anyway, I have just purchased some 5W-40, which is ACEA C3 rated and Dexos 2 rated and will be putting it in my 2015 diesel. I really do not like a semi-synthetic trying to lube my turbo. Amsoil will lube it well and the 40 rating will handle the high heat.I also believe that the cold start point is now -44, which is excellent as I live near Edmonton, Alberta. I anyone around here would like to get into Amsoil, get a hold of me at [email protected] .


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

The actual difference in viscosity is really quite minimal. It was previously mentioned that the thicker oil could restrict passages, when comparing the 5W-30 to the 5W-40. Allow me to put this into perspective. 

Measured in centistokes, a 30 weight oil ranges from 9.7 to 12.5. A 40 weight goes from 12.5 to. 16.3. These are measured at 212F or 100C.

At freezing, 32F or 0C, these oils thicken to approximately 600-700 cSt. Between freezing temp and operating temp for this engine can be a duration of anywhere between 5 minutes and half an hour depending on ambient temps. During this entire time, your oil is several orders of magnitude thicker than it would be on a summer day. 

There is no concern for blocked oil passages. There would be, however, a concern for excessively thinned oil as a result of fuel dilution, which we have seen on a few occasions. One would assume GM accounted for this in the engine design. 

Between a 5W-30 and a 5W-40 will be an arguably inconsequential fuel economy and power reduction in the range of 1-3%. It is practically immeasurable in the real world and certainly not noticeable on the butt dyno. 

I generally lean toward the 5W-30 low saps for folks that recognize the sensitivity of the emissions control equipment in this vehicle, and toward the 5W-40 mid saps for folks that prefer the dexos2 spec listed in the product description. In the event that GM decides to test the oil should there be a failure that is blamed on lubrication, they will find a viscosity consistent with their 0W-40 recommendation that meets their dexos2 specification for SAPS content or a viscosity consistent with their 5W-30 recommendation that exceeds their dexos2 specification for SAPS content.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Earlier in the year, I posted a thread highlighting the difference in the owners manuals between 2014 and 2015. One of those changes was the recommendation for a 0W-40 over a 0W-30 for cold weather. 

In suspect this was done due to the far higher availability of dexos2 spec 0W-40 oils over 0W-30 oils.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Mobile 1 ESP 0w-30 is out for those in the artic, 5w-30/40 is fine for 99.7% of us though


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

For those having difficulty in making a choice in a pure PAO synthetic, I will quote from the manual (2015) and from www.oilspecifications. org/ . On page 10-13 of the manual it states to use engine oils that meet dexos2 specification. If dexos2 is unavailable you may use substitute engine oil that meets ACEA C3 of the appropriate viscosity grade.

oilspecifications.org state for ACEA C3 - Stable, stay in grade oil intended for use as catalyst compatible oil in vehicles with DPF and TWC in high performance car and light van diesel and gasoline engines, with a minimum HTHs viscosity of 3.5mPa.s. These oils will increase the DPF and TWC life. 

Page 10-14 of the manual states use SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade oil. In cold temperature operation you may use 0W-40 oil.

Since the Amsoil 5W-40 oil has better cold performance than AC-Delco I have opted to put Amsoil 5W-40 in my engine on Monday. I only have about 700 K on my diesel. I will also have the transmission drained and put Amsoil fuel efficient synthetic ATF in the tranny. it is AW1 rated. 

These are my choices. I agree with XtremeRevolution about the minor difference in viscosities between 5W-30 and 5W40, also amsoil 5W-40 in many cases has better cold performance than some 0W-40 oils.Again these are the choices I have made after doing some of my own research and reading many of the posts here. I see some people have been using Amsoil 5W-40 for a few years and others have used Amsoil 5W-30 for some years. Neither has hurt the engine and will likely prolong the life of the engine when compared to AC-Delco or some other oils on the market.
Well, I had my say and tomorrow my Cruze will have Amsoil in the engine and transmission. I do hope this helps some people make a decision on their oil.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

John Richard said:


> I only have about 700 K on my diesel.


You have 700,000 miles on your diesel??


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

Diesel, diesel, diesel, only 700 kilometers, It will have 700,00 one day with the Amsoil in it.


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## 1877 iris ave (Sep 23, 2011)

Starting Dec 1 Amsoil will have reformulated 5w-30 oil that meets the specifications of ACEA C3 and DEXOS 2. At first it will only be available in gallon containers and soon afterwards in qts. Its code or designation is AEL


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## John Richard (Oct 15, 2015)

yes, I just got a nitification also that in January, Amsoil will be putting out a dexos, ACEA C3 5W-30 oil. I will look at the specs when it comes out and see if I will stay with my 5W-40 or switch.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

1877 iris ave said:


> Starting Dec 1 Amsoil will have reformulated 5w-30 oil that meets the specifications of ACEA C3 and DEXOS 2. At first it will only be available in gallon containers and soon afterwards in qts. Its code or designation is AEL


Is it going to be Low-SAPS like the current 5W-30 or Mid-SAPS like the current dexos2 5W-40?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

1877 iris ave said:


> Starting Dec 1 Amsoil will have reformulated 5w-30 oil that meets the specifications of ACEA C3 and DEXOS 2. At first it will only be available in gallon containers and soon afterwards in qts. Its code or designation is AEL


I thought their 5W30 low SAPS European oil already meets those specs? (without the actual Dexos2 certification)


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## 1877 iris ave (Sep 23, 2011)

Pan Jet, the reformulated 5w-30(AEL) will still be considered low saps, though I'm told its not quite as low as the earlier formulation. Diesel, the previous formulation did not meet the ACEA C3 or dexos2 specification. The new formulation although it meets or exceeds the Dexos2 specifications, I don't think Amsoil will have it certified and pay GM's royalty.

Why low SAPS? Soot in the exhaust system is the result of combustion of fuel. Sulfated ash in the exhaust also affects the DPF. Soot is removed by regeneration, but sulfated ash is not. The accumulation of sulfated ash in the DPF is inevitable so keeping it to as little as possible is important. Please note that sulfated ash in the exhaust is a product of the additive chemistry in the oil. The reason accumulation is inevitable is that there always a tiny tiny amount of oil that gets into the combustion because the rings can't remove 100% of the oil lubricating the cylinder walls.

Interesting fact---large trucks can now send in their DPF's and have them cleaned. This is supposed to give them about 50% more life.

Lastly, on the newly reformulated oil bottles will state that is meets or exceeds ACEA C3 and Dexos2, the old formulation will not state that on the bottle.

enjoy


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

diesel said:


> I thought their 5W30 low SAPS European oil already meets those specs? (without the actual Dexos2 certification)


5w30 low saps is ACEA C3 only an 5w40 mid saps is both.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Well the current low-saps formulation meets VW's current TDI spec which is more strict than Dexos2 which = good enough for me! I'll buy that one if there's still a choice between Euro 5w-30's just due to the fact it's lower saps as the one poster claims. All I'm interested in is the lowest SAPS possible at this point, wear is really a non-issue any spec oil changed at proper interval is going to give me a longer life than my body will ever reach with my driving in the rust belt even with rust protection. At my current pace which isn't likely to change anytime soon I'll have 180k miles after 15 years! That's not many miles.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

1877 iris ave said:


> Interesting fact---large trucks can now send in their DPF's and have them cleaned. This is supposed to give them about 50% more life.


they always could


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

1877 iris ave said:


> Diesel, the previous formulation did not meet the ACEA C3 or dexos2 specification.


Hmm. Well, it meets MB 229.51 so I am pretty sure it will be OK in my Cruze!


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Different turbos, different tolerances, different designs and different materials. Why is this not obvious?
> 
> I can turn right back around and say what about the Mazdaspeed3 owners who had their dealers fill with dino oil and were dropping turbos left and right with only 25k miles.
> 
> ...


I completely agree!

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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Okay...anyone got to a conclusion yet? I'm still looking for a dexos2 5w30 and i can't find anything here in Toronto area other than Amsoil and Total Quartz.

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I guess I'm lost at this point. What are you looking for? These's conclusively a bunch of oils that meet spec for our cars. If you're not willing to order by mail you're going to be severely limited.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I guess I'm lost at this point. What are you looking for? These's conclusively a bunch of oils that meet spec for our cars. If you're not willing to order by mail you're going to be severely limited.


No ofence but there are limited for Canada, they don't ship it here, amazon.uk do not ship here, i specifically look for Mobil 1 3000 esp dexos2.

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

pacolino said:


> No ofence but there are limited for Canada, they don't ship it here, amazon.uk do not ship here, i specifically look for Mobil 1 3000 esp dexos2.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


No offense taken, I was guessing you didn't want to order by mail as well because shipping in Canada is ridiculous. I know I've had to pay like 15 bucks to ship something the size of a paper clip about a 100 miles from me but it was across the border. 

I need to take another trip to Toronto and smuggle you up a case of cheap oil lol

I did a quick search on tdiclub.com since they use the same spec oil we need and has tons of canadian members and it seems Canadian Tire (crappy tire as they call it) has Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 at many locations. Not sure if you have one of those nearby.

Believe it or not I sold something to a Canadian guy once which he picked up in person passing through Erie and to this day almost 10 years later he'll email me occasionally and have some things shipped to my house for him to pickup when he passes through because it saves him a boatload on shipping.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

KpaxFAQ said:


> No offense taken, I was guessing you didn't want to order by mail as well because shipping in Canada is ridiculous. I know I've had to pay like 15 bucks to ship something the size of a paper clip about a 100 miles from me but it was across the border.
> 
> I need to take another trip to Toronto and smuggle you up a case of cheap oil lol
> 
> ...


Trust me, I've checked all automotive stores including canadian tire, they don't sell mobil 1 esp 5w30, they even don't have any dexos2 oils, so my only option is to order it online, but where?

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

why the mobil over the total?


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

I feel more comfortable with Mobil 1.

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## Aerogeek (Aug 23, 2014)

May I suggest u give the guys at germanparts.ca at 400/Finch Ave a call. I get by Total and Fuchs Titan dexos2 from them.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Aerogeek said:


> May I suggest u give the guys at germanparts.ca at 400/Finch Ave a call. I get by Total and Fuchs Titan dexos2 from them.


Got it, thanks for the info Aerogeek 

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## Aerogeek (Aug 23, 2014)

pacolino said:


> Got it, thanks for the info Aerogeek
> 
> Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


Glad to assist a fellow mississaugan


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

The ad pack of Mobil 1 ESP looks better than Total to me but the UOA's that Diesel posted show that Total does a great job in real world application.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> The ad pack of Mobil 1 ESP looks better than Total to me but the UOA's that Diesel posted show that Total does a great job in real world application.


Bear in mind that nonmetallic and ashless additives don't show up in an oil analysis report. 

AMSOIL low saps did notably better than Total in Diesel's analysis reports as well but the oil analysis doesn't show that much of a difference.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Bear in mind that nonmetallic and ashless additives don't show up in an oil analysis report.
> 
> AMSOIL low saps did notably better than Total in Diesel's analysis reports as well but the oil analysis doesn't show that much of a difference.


Touche, just changed mine yesterday with another round of AMSoil's Low-saps 5w-30. 

Doing my dad, mom, and sister's car's annual oil changes today with AMSoil Signature Series. I got them on board with the extended interval once a year changes since they're all in the 10-15k/year range. 

I like clicking a button and having everything I need end up on my doorstep in 2 days and when doing a whole fleet it's marginally if at all more expensive than wAlly world Mobil 1.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

News...went to my dealer this morning where i purchased my CTD and i told them that i don't feel comfortable having a blend oil in my engine for first 4 free oil changes and when i've asked what option i have for a full synthetic oil they advised me that i can pay the difference to have Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, about $40 difference between the 2 oils.














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## Aerogeek (Aug 23, 2014)

pacolino said:


> News...went to my dealer this morning where i purchased my CTD and i told them that i don't feel comfortable having a blend oil in my engine for first 4 free oil changes and when i've asked what option i have for a full synthetic oil they advised me that i can pay the difference to have Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, about $40 difference between the 2 oils.
> View attachment 168890
> View attachment 168898
> 
> ...


i see mobil 1 ESP 5w30 (same as pics) at crappy tire for $9.99/litre this week. 
My $0.02


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Aerogeek said:


> i see mobil 1 ESP 5w30 (same as pics) at crappy tire for $9.99/litre this week.
> My $0.02


Yes...that's right, $9.99/liter until November 12, good price, regular is $16.99/liter.

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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Has anyone run this oil before in their diesel and reported on it? What do you think, it is Dexos2 spec and easier to get in my area.
I've run Redline manual trans oil in my Stealth manual trans for years, been happy with it there. :grin:

Specs: ACEA C3, VW AUDI 504.00/507.00, BMW Longlife-04, Porsche C30, GM dexos2®, MB 229.31/229.51 and Chrysler MS-11106 









Redline Euro-Series 5W30 Motor Oil

Red Line Synthetic Oil - Motor Oil - Euro-Series 5W30 Motor Oil

Motor Oils - Red Line Oil Euro-Series 5W30 Motor Oil


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

theonlypheonix said:


> Has anyone run this oil before in their diesel and reported on it? What do you think, it is Dexos2 spec and easier to get in my area.
> I've run Redline manual trans oil in my Stealth manual trans for years, been happy with it there. :grin:
> 
> Specs: ACEA C3, VW AUDI 504.00/507.00, BMW Longlife-04, Porsche C30, GM dexos2®, MB 229.31/229.51 and Chrysler MS-11106
> ...


How much?

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

That redline oil is another top notch option. Never used it but have yet to see any junk come from that company. Use as long as the pricing makes sense, no idea what they ask for it.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

This is the lowest price i've seen for the Redline (11.99qt/):
(ester based oil)

Red Line Euro-Series Engine Oil â€“ BimmerWorld Online Store


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

pacolino said:


> News...went to my dealer this morning where i purchased my CTD and i told them that i don't feel comfortable having a blend oil in my engine for first 4 free oil changes and when i've asked what option i have for a full synthetic oil they advised me that i can pay the difference to have Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, about $40 difference between the 2 oils.


If you're not interested in doing your own change, ask them what they'd charge to change the oil if you supplied the oil. If they're going to charge $40 upcharge to get ESP, if they'll instead give you a discount if you supplied your own oil, it might actually be cheaper to buy your own Amsoil and supply it to them.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

well...I'm not changing the oil myself now because first 4 changes are free anyways, so Amsoil is $62.85 usd ($84 cad) retail price, with cad-usd parity it's not worthy, so $40 cad upcharge difference for Mobil 1 is just okay.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I didn't realize amsoil was so much money. Mind you if it only has to be changed once a year, that's not so bad


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

I went with Renewable Lubricants. I'm going on the recommendation of Terry Dyson from Dyson Analysis who I send my oil samples to. He highly recommend RLI. This particular oil is holding up really well with vehicles like Audi that have fuel dilution problems. I did send a sample off to him on the AC/Delco dexos2 5w-30 that was in there for 5k miles. OLM was down to 32%. 

SynXtra HD Plus 5W30 LA 8533- SN/CJ-4 5W30 58.5 / 10.9 181 446 ̊F / 230 ̊C -40 ̊F / -40 ̊C 

http://www.renewablelube.com/rliminibook.pdf


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> I went with Renewable Lubricants. I'm going on the recommendation of Terry Dyson from Dyson Analysis who I send my oil samples to. He highly recommend RLI. This particular oil is holding up really well with vehicles like Audi that have fuel dilution problems. I did send a sample off to him on the AC/Delco dexos2 5w-30 that was in there for 5k miles. OLM was down to 32%.
> 
> SynXtra HD Plus 5W30 LA 8533- SN/CJ-4 5W30 58.5 / 10.9 181 446 ̊F / 230 ̊C -40 ̊F / -40 ̊C
> 
> http://www.renewablelube.com/rliminibook.pdf


I see it's low ash, but does not meet MB 229.51 which tells me it might not quite be suitable for the CTD.


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## Kexlox (Nov 4, 2014)

money_man said:


> I didn't realize amsoil was so much money. Mind you if it only has to be changed once a year, that's not so bad


That looks like full retail price. Amsoil has a wholesale option, PM Xtreme and he'll walk you through everything.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Yeah think you save 20%


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> I see it's low ash, but does not meet MB 229.51 which tells me it might not quite be suitable for the CTD.


Agreed. I would not use a mere CJ-4 spec oil in this vehicle. This isn't a diesel truck.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

theonlypheonix said:


> This is the lowest price i've seen for the Redline (11.99qt/):
> (ester based oil)
> 
> Red Line Euro-Series Engine Oil â€“ BimmerWorld Online Store


found lower price here ($9.91/qt free ship with 6 qts):

Red Line Euro-Series 5W30 Motor Oil - 1 Quart - Part Number: 12304 - Sparktec Motorsports - Motor Oils

I might just consider for next oil change? WRX crowd seems to like this oil, claims are only slight color change
in 6k mi. With pour temp of -49 should be good for my part of the state when we had state record cold of -36F.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Agreed. I would not use a mere CJ-4 spec oil in this vehicle. This isn't a diesel truck.


I'm not to worried about it. Terry is seeing really good UOA's with this formula and he commented on the fact that ring seal is improved as well so there will be less blow-by to worry about which means less down the exhaust to poison the DPF. He has over 25yrs of experience with Tribology.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Xtreme, did you see this notice?

Finally, European Car Formula 5W-30 Improved ESP Synthetic Motor Oil (AEL) has been reformulated and now covers these additional specifications:


Chrysler MS-11106
ACEA C3
dexos2™


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> I'm not to worried about it. Terry is seeing really good UOA's with this formula and he commented on the fact that ring seal is improved as well so there will be less blow-by to worry about which means less down the exhaust to poison the DPF. He has over 25yrs of experience with Tribology.


I see nothing to indicate that ring seal would be improved. Don't forget the PCV system, which is another place where vaporized oil escapes and is consumed. 

I'm simply not seeing the benefits to this oil. I've read about him strongly recommending that specific brand on a number of occasions, which leads me to believe he may have some affiliation with it as he's never recommended anything else. I usually approach people like that with the question "give me a reason to use this oil." As for the UOAs, I have yet to see a bad one with any oil in this car yet. 

AMSOIL has several CJ-4 spec oils, which I have purposely avoided recommending for this vehicle as they are by no means exceptionally low ash oils. 

On one hand, the 25 years of experience is remarkable. On the other hand, I've learned not to associate experience or reputation with technical accuracy.



BlueTopaz said:


> Xtreme, did you see this notice?
> 
> Finally, European Car Formula 5W-30 Improved ESP Synthetic Motor Oil (AEL) has been reformulated and now covers these additional specifications:
> 
> ...


I did. There was a notice about it in my AMSOIL dealer zone last week.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I see nothing to indicate that ring seal would be improved. Don't forget the PCV system, which is another place where vaporized oil escapes and is consumed.
> 
> I'm simply not seeing the benefits to this oil. I've read about him strongly recommending that specific brand on a number of occasions, which leads me to believe he may have some affiliation with it as he's never recommended anything else. I usually approach people like that with the question "give me a reason to use this oil." As for the UOAs, I have yet to see a bad one with any oil in this car yet.
> 
> ...



Terry is not affiliated with RLI in any way. His recommendations for the use of RLI fluids is based on all the data he has collected from UOA's that show RLI's flluids work well where others do not.

I just sent in a sample to him that I took from our 2011 Acadia running AMSOIL's HDD oil. It did well and was about the same as the AC Delco dexos1 that I ran before it. 

What really improved the UOA was that I had started running E85. It seems that it's cleaner and cooler burn really helped improve the UOA over previous ones where E85 has not been used.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> Terry is not affiliated with RLI in any way. His recommendations for the use of RLI fluids is based on all the data he has collected from UOA's that show RLI's flluids work well where others do not.
> 
> I just sent in a sample to him that I took from our 2011 Acadia running AMSOIL's HDD oil. It did well and was about the same as the AC Delco dexos1 that I ran before it.
> 
> What really improved the UOA was that I had started running E85. It seems that it's cleaner and cooler burn really helped improve the UOA over previous ones where E85 has not been used.


I produced a list in the powertrain section recommending tiers of oils that I believed to be of high quality. My Tier 1 list of oils includes nearly a dozen, not just one. I have yet to see him recommend an oil other than RLI, and again I haven't seen anything to indicate that the oil is of exceptional quality or performance. I've seen some fantastic looking UOAs on Pennzoil Platinum, but I know perfectly well this is dependent on driving conditions and specific vehicles. Please remember that there is far more to oil quality and performance than can be reflected in an oil analysis report, and that there is much that an oil analysis report doesn't show you. Oil analysis reports are designed to show metallic wear, a select few contaminants, and alkalinity. 

I strongly caution people who are running E85 because it is highly acidic to engine oils and causes a notably more rapid TBN decay. As for back to back analysis reports, bear in mind that the strong detergent package in conjunction with the high solvency of the ester base stock will do a lot of cleaning of deposits that previous oils left and will skew oil analysis reports. It's for that reason that I generally don't recommend an oil analysis until the 2nd oil change in. 

Any particular reason why you ran AMSOIL HDD instead of Signature Series? You really don't need all that ZDDP, and Signature Series seems to be better suited for fuel economy.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> I'm not to worried about it. Terry is seeing really good UOA's with this formula and he commented on the fact that ring seal is improved as well so there will be less blow-by to worry about which means less down the exhaust to poison the DPF. He has over 25yrs of experience with Tribology.


My 2 cents: Just as long as you realize you will be a bit of a guinea pig here and you may or may not unwittingly cause yourself emissions or other issues. Conversely, it may be perfectly fine. Why would you want to take a gamble on your $25K car with something that wasn't proven for the job?


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I produced a list in the powertrain section recommending tiers of oils that I believed to be of high quality. My Tier 1 list of oils includes nearly a dozen, not just one. I have yet to see him recommend an oil other than RLI, and again I haven't seen anything to indicate that the oil is of exceptional quality or performance. I've seen some fantastic looking UOAs on Pennzoil Platinum, but I know perfectly well this is dependent on driving conditions and specific vehicles. Please remember that there is far more to oil quality and performance than can be reflected in an oil analysis report, and that there is much that an oil analysis report doesn't show you. Oil analysis reports are designed to show metallic wear, a select few contaminants, and alkalinity.
> 
> I strongly caution people who are running E85 because it is highly acidic to engine oils and causes a notably more rapid TBN decay. As for back to back analysis reports, bear in mind that the strong detergent package in conjunction with the high solvency of the ester base stock will do a lot of cleaning of deposits that previous oils left and will skew oil analysis reports. It's for that reason that I generally don't recommend an oil analysis until the 2nd oil change in.
> 
> Any particular reason why you ran AMSOIL HDD instead of Signature Series? You really don't need all that ZDDP, and Signature Series seems to be better suited for fuel economy.


The Acadia is a guinea pig so to speak on UOA's. Since it is hard on oil, probably because of our driving style and conditions I wanted to see what oil does better than others. I don't have a life, UOA's are my hobby. Some spend their money on golf, football, baseball, hunting, fishing, me it is UOA's.

So you are saying that Terry has customers that send in oil, the results come back not so good, he recommends RLI and the UOA's improve. That isn't a good thing? Like I said, his 25 year of experience are showing RLI to be a performer oil. It is a small Ohio based company. Oil has come a long way. Just like AMSOIL they can't afford to spend the money to pay the fee's for every license.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> The Acadia is a guinee pig so to speak on UOA's. Since it is hard on oil, probably because of our driving style and conditions I wanted to see what oil does better than others. I don't have a life, UOA's are my hobby. Some spend their money on golf, football, baseball, hunting, fishing, me it is UOA's.
> 
> So you are saying that Terry has customers that send in oil, the results come back not so good, he recommends RLI and the UOA's improve. That isn't a good thing? Like I said, his 25 year of experience are showing RLI to be a performer oil. It is a small Ohio based company. Oil has come a long way. Just like AMSOIL they can't afford to spend the money to pay the fee's for every license.


I don't mean to be argumentative, but there's a reason for my skepticism. There are SO many companies out there, many of which have far more resources for developing oils for specific applications. Why did he choose RLI out of all of those, and why consistently? There has to be some relationship there. Sure, it is a good thing if the UOAs improve, but there are a number of oils that will do that. RLI is just one of them. 

Yes, RLI is a small company, and relative to the big oil companies, AMSOIL is also small, but AMSOIL refuses to pay licensing fees on the premise that they can keep costs lower if they don't, not because they can't afford it. Among all of the "small" oil companies (Redline, RP, Motul, Schaeffer's, etc.), AMSOIL is the largest and has the most advanced and comprehensive testing and R&D facility. AMSOIL now formulates their own additives with raw materials and no longer purchases [all of] them from Lubrizol. All other small companies simply blend products according to their desired specifications. I guess I've just been at a bit of a loss as to why he considers RLI to be exceptional. What's the reason for recommending it over other options? That's just a rhetorical question to explain my thoughts. 

With regard to the Acadia, I'm curious to see your results as they come in. Feel free to create another thread to share those if you have time. I know many people use HDD for a number of non-diesel applications.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> I'm not to worried about it. Terry is seeing really good UOA's with this formula and he commented on the fact that ring seal is improved as well so there will be less blow-by to worry about which means less down the exhaust to poison the DPF. He has over 25yrs of experience with Tribology.


It's not just about blow-by either...our crankcase vents back into the intake essentially burning that oil. You should see what it looks like around the crankcase vent tube coming out the bottom of my 14.6L CAT at work. It's like free undercoating. Not exactly the same but the point is the same you're going to be burning the oil one way or another. 

Your guy could be a genius holding the golden ticket or full of crap. I'll stick with a sure thing until proven otherwise.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Curious question: Does anyone know if the new 2.8L Duramax calls for dexos2 oil? If so, we might see an increasing selection of available dexos2 oils. My guess is the 2.8L Duramax will far outsell what the CTD has done so far.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Since the 2.8 Duramax is a VM Motori design, as is our 2.0 Ecotec, I'm guessing that it will call for dexos2.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Confirmed: The 2.8 Duramax uses dexos2. 

I found it burried in the GM powertrain webpage. 

Powertrain Products


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> It's not just about blow-by either...our crankcase vents back into the intake essentially burning that oil. You should see what it looks like around the crankcase vent tube coming out the bottom of my 14.6L CAT at work. It's like free undercoating. Not exactly the same but the point is the same you're going to be burning the oil one way or another.
> 
> Your guy could be a genius holding the golden ticket or full of crap. I'll stick with a sure thing until proven otherwise.


I asked Terry why he suggests RLI over others and he knows I like AMSOIL. As soon as I get a chance I will post a new thread showing my UOAs with my Acadia and several different AMSOIL products. Here is what he sent back to me.

"*Quote from Terry Dyson of DysonAnalysis : " AMSOIL purchases its base oils and additive packages from major suppliers that all other oil blenders do. They use very high quality constituents but its not custom made product normally. How do I know this, I have worked for or consulted for most of the major additive companies especially the main additive supplier for AMSOIL. There are smaller blenders and formulators that make very unique products and chemistries but they are rare. RLI, Mobil 1 on specific formula, and others do this. For instance D-A lubricants make very good custom made formula's for some of their products that spare no expense and synergistically out perform major brands in appropriate applications. Lubes, fuels and filters are like gloves that need to fit the application. The only way to know that fit is to analyze the oil. *

*As far as recommending specific off the shelf lubricants or fuels additives etc I share what I have tested both on engine bench or dyno tests and confirmed via chemistry lab work." *

For the average person it really doesn't matter. But since I don't have a life or hobby, UOA's and our vehicles are my hobby so that is what I like to do. Terry's service is expensive, but I like the fact that he sends a .wav file along with the report and explains each and every part of the UOA in detail. I'm not just reading a generalized paragraph trying to understand the UOA.

I could be wrong but crank case pressure is partly caused by blow-by the rings, seal the cylinders up for a more efficient combustion and thus you reduce significantly the PCV pressure and what the engine draws in. 

Also, this last UOA on our Acadia was running E85 for a good bit of the oil drain interval and the UOA improved significantly. As far as corrosion, that isn't an issue since our fuel systems are sealed.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> I asked Terry why he suggests RLI over others and he knows I like AMSOIL. As soon as I get a chance I will post a new thread showing my UOAs with my Acadia and several different AMSOIL products. Here is what he sent back to me.
> 
> "*Quote from Terry Dyson of DysonAnalysis : " AMSOIL purchases its base oils and additive packages from major suppliers that all other oil blenders do. They use very high quality constituents but its not custom made product normally. How do I know this, I have worked for or consulted for most of the major additive companies especially the main additive supplier for AMSOIL. There are smaller blenders and formulators that make very unique products and chemistries but they are rare. RLI, Mobil 1 on specific formula, and others do this. For instance D-A lubricants make very good custom made formula's for some of their products that spare no expense and synergistically out perform major brands in appropriate applications. Lubes, fuels and filters are like gloves that need to fit the application. The only way to know that fit is to analyze the oil. *
> 
> ...


I can't tell you where AMSOIL's base oils come from, but the blend is proprietary, and there are VERY few others that make ester based oils. The primary base oil is evident through oil analysis that tests for oxidation. Not all of AMSOIL's oils are ester based, but most of them are. The base oils are, however, locally sourced. With regard to additives, that was Lubrizol that he referred to, and AMSOIL no longer purchases all of their additives from them. A couple of years back, AMSOIL needed a more robust additive package, and since Lubrizol could not provide it, they started buying raw materials and formulating their own additives. Check the signature series analysis reports between then and now, and you'll see Calcium numbers going up from about 3000ppm to 3600ppm. Dyson is a bit behind the times on this one. AMSOIL has in more recent years been creating a LOT of new specialized oils for 2-stroke and 4-stroke small engines, in addition to low production oils like a 5W-50 just for the Ford GT-500 and a 0W-40 just for the Dodge Hellcat and the Nissan GT-R. 

PCV will "inhale" all oil that is vaporized, and all oils have a vaporization rate, represented by the NOACK volatility test. Furthermore, there will always be some oil that seeps past piston rings. It is never a 100% seal. This excludes the possibility of a PCV failure causing a high ingestion rate and total DPF failure. The 1.4T guys have this issue with the intake manifold check valve disappearing, but thankfully no DPF. 

E85 challenges are with respect to acidity. There is a very good reason why flex-fuel vehicle manufacturers recommend a shortened oil drain interval when using e85. I assume his oil analysis service includes gas chromatography testing of fuel dilution in addition to TBN and oxidation?

Just remember that oil analysis doesn't show the effect oils have on diesel particulate filters. Oil analysis is in fact very limited in scope. A good oil analysis doesn't automatically mean the oil is suitable for that vehicle or that it's doing its job. I've had that conversation with people on Rotella T6 repeatedly regarding additives, and have seen my fair share of 1.4T failed turbos. An oil analysis also won't show you an oil's tendency to leave deposits and carbonize or leave coking deposits around piston rings and turbo seals under high heat, which is a tendency of mineral-based oils, just to name another example.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Just remember that oil analysis doesn't show the effect oils have on diesel particulate filters. Oil analysis is in fact very limited in scope. A good oil analysis doesn't automatically mean the oil is suitable for that vehicle or that it's doing its job. I've had that conversation with people on Rotella T6 repeatedly regarding additives, and have seen my fair share of 1.4T failed turbos. An oil analysis also won't show you an oil's tendency to leave deposits and carbonize or leave coking deposits around piston rings and turbo seals under high heat, which is a tendency of mineral-based oils, just to name another example.


Very good information here. There's a lot more to the equation than simply the analysis.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Went today to do my first engine oil and filter change at 8400km, I had no choice but to go with their synthetic blend AC Delco 5w30 as they don't have any Mobil1 ESP full synthetic in their stock, i've told them that next time i will bring my own oil specifically Amsoil 5w30 low sap full synthetic. I'm so disappointed GM, not happy having this blend oil in my engine for the next 6-7000km.

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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

What do you think your engine left the factory with?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pacolino said:


> Went today to do my first engine oil and filter change at 8400km, I had no choice but to go with their synthetic blend AC Delco 5w30 as they don't have any Mobil1 ESP full synthetic in their stock, i've told them that next time i will bring my own oil specifically Amsoil 5w30 low sap full synthetic. I'm so disappointed GM, not happy having this blend oil in my engine for the next 6-7000km.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


My car had the blend in for the first 30K miles. No issues related to the oil. Now at 145K.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

what can I say, I feel more comfortable now...lol


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I just ordered Mobil ESP 5w30 from my local NAPA store this morning. They are picking it up on their route I guess and I get the oil anytime after 3 pm today. The price they gave me was $8.22/qt. Previously I paid like $100/10 qts from amazon. Just an FYI to try your local NAPA possibly.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Where are you located, in states?

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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Elkhorn, Wisc.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Okay, not sure what prices they got here in Toronto area but i will give them a shout, thanks for the info.

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## Kexlox (Nov 4, 2014)

That's basically the same price as the AMSOIL Low SAPS that I'm running. I paid $8.50 per quart


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Kexlox said:


> That's basically the same price as the AMSOIL Low SAPS that I'm running. I paid $8.50 per quart


I have switched back to Amsoil in mine. Was running Total Quartz.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

I discovered this from another thread, but I see it looks like we now have another way of getting the full-syn dexos 2 Mobil Super 3000 5w-30 XE.

JEGS carries it for $7.99/quart and free shipping (with orders over $30).

Chevrolet Performance 88864041, Mobil Super 3000 XE Motor Oil | Chevrolet Performance


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Yea I saw that today, most likely the route I will go unless I can get the Total cheaper/just as easy when my free changes are up. 



PanJet said:


> I discovered this from another thread, but I see it looks like we now have another way of getting the full-syn dexos 2 Mobil Super 3000 5w-30 XE.
> 
> JEGS carries it for $7.99/quart and free shipping (with orders over $30).
> 
> Chevrolet Performance 88864041, Mobil Super 3000 XE Motor Oil | Chevrolet Performance


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

PanJet said:


> I discovered this from another thread, but I see it looks like we now have another way of getting the full-syn dexos 2 Mobil Super 3000 5w-30 XE.
> 
> JEGS carries it for $7.99/quart and free shipping (with orders over $30).
> 
> Chevrolet Performance 88864041, Mobil Super 3000 XE Motor Oil | Chevrolet Performance


Doesnt appear they charge sales tax either, not a big deal but still factors in, just takes a couple weeks to get it, so order early.


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## listerone (Nov 15, 2015)

PanJet said:


> JEGS carries it for $7.99/quart and free shipping (with orders over $30).


Thanks for the info.It's also suited for my "d"...which shouldn't be a huge surprise.


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## listerone (Nov 15, 2015)

CruzeDan said:


> Yea I saw that today, most likely the route I will go unless I can get the Total cheaper/just as easy when my free changes are up.


Does Chevy give "free" oil changes too? Outstanding! Although I love my "d" there are times I wish I had gone Cruze diesel instead.


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## DECruzer (Jul 19, 2015)

Cool. That's what my local dealer has been using, although they sell it for less than that. (No sales tax here to deal with)


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Hey listerone... Why did you sell your 335D? when I test drove one a few years back it was a seat of the pants thrill:question: , could almost give my Stealth TT a run for the money. My Cruze D is the interim car between going all electric. I may transition over in the next year or two when the Gen II Leaf is released with alleged 200mi range??

TOTAL QUARTZ INEO MC3 #184953 Engine Oil $31.92 for 5 qt bottle ($6.39/qt). Just need to plan your oil change 10 days ahead to allow for shipping. Shipping was $6.00 whether one orders 1 or 3 bottles(5qt) so I ordered 3 which is enough to last me 6 months @ 5K mi changes. Eventually I may switch to Red Line after I use up the Quartz oil by then the cost may have come down. But for now the cost is less then the blend from the local dealer:

TOTAL QUARTZ 184953 Engine Oil | Autoplicity


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

...just ordered Mobil Super 3000 XE / $39 for 5 liters +$12 shipping:

Chevrolet Performance 88864041, Mobil Super 3000 XE Motor Oil | Chevrolet Performance


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

DECruzer said:


> Cool. That's what my local dealer has been using, although they sell it for less than that. (No sales tax here to deal with)


Who's your dealer? I wonder if they sell online (some do) or would be willing to ship it. For the right price, it might be worth it.

I still haven't decided which oil I'm going to use on my next change. I used Total Quartz (bought the kit which included the filter from IDParts for $57 including shipping) for my last change, and I'm at 67% currently. I'm trying to decide between the Amsoil Low-Saps 5W-30 and the Mobile Super 3000 XE.



pacolino said:


> ...just ordered Mobil Super 3000 XE / $39 for 5 liters +$12 shipping


Whoa, I just looked yesterday and it was free shipping for any order over $30. That must have been a limited time offer as I see it's now $75 to get free shipping. Oh well - I can order 10 liters at a time and get free shipping.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

If anybody uses Total Quartz, watch out for those aluminum seals! I had one break off and go into my engine. I don't use this brand any more. I am going to stick with Amsoil low saps.


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## DECruzer (Jul 19, 2015)

PanJet said:


> Who's your dealer? I wonder if they sell online (some do) or would be willing to ship it. For the right price, it might be worth it.
> 
> I still haven't decided which oil I'm going to use on my next change. I used Total Quartz (bought the kit which included the filter from IDParts for $57 including shipping) for my last change, and I'm at 67% currently. I'm trying to decide between the Amsoil Low-Saps 5W-30 and the Mobile Super 3000 XE.
> 
> ...


Willis Chevrolet Buick: Delaware Dealership Between Middletown & Dover


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## listerone (Nov 15, 2015)

theonlypheonix said:


> Hey listerone... Why did you sell your 335D? when I test drove one a few years back it was a seat of the pants thrill:question:


You're right about that...a real blast to drive.That's what 425 ft lbs of torque can do.I parted with it,sadly,because the back seat was totally unsuitable for adults whereas the Bluetec was.Then I totaled that (at 7MPH no less...long story) and used the check for my current "d".


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

which one is better:
*FUCHS TITAN GT1 PRO FLEX XTL 5W30* or
*TOTAL QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W30
*both are Dexos2.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

pacolino said:


> which one is better:
> *FUCHS TITAN GT1 PRO FLEX XTL 5W30* or
> *TOTAL QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W30
> *both are Dexos2.


No real way to know. Even if you found a virgin oil analysis, there are so many nonmetallic additives at play in low SAPS oils that you won't really be able to make a judgment call either way.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> No real way to know. Even if you found a virgin oil analysis, there are so many nonmetallic additives at play in low SAPS oils that you won't really be able to make a judgment call either way.


Post number seven on the thread below contains a virgin oil analysis of the Total Quartz dexos2 oil complete with some commentary early in Xtreme's oil career. With the benefit of two years experience @XtremeRevolution would you be willing to give it another glance?

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...ssion/48818-oil-testing-anayslis-diesels.html


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Post number seven on the thread below contains a virgin oil analysis of the Total Quartz dexos2 oil complete with some commentary early in Xtreme's oil career. With the benefit of two years experience @*XtremeRevolution* would you be willing to give it another glance?
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...ssion/48818-oil-testing-anayslis-diesels.html


I have discovered, since that time, that many nonmetallic additives are employed by manufacturers for a number of reasons, so the oil analysis reports of limited importance. Regarding my statement concerning ZDDP levels, I have also discovered that testing is not always accurate, and have seen deviations up to 100ppm for Zinc and Phosphorous. 

A brief comparison of Total Quartz Ineo 5W-30 to AMSOIL's Low-Saps, now Dexos2 complaint oil would not lead one to conclude that any was better than the other, but the oil analysis provided by Diesel not long ago paints a different story, where remarkably lower wear occurred under the AMSOIL lubricant than on several Total Quartz runs prior. Simply observing the virgin oil analysis would not have indicated that this would happen. That being said, since the Total Quartz oil did not present alarming levels of wear for their service interval, I certainly cannot recommend against it either. 

In those two years, I have also learned one simple fact through countless debates concerning Rotella T6 in gasoline engines: diesel engines are far easier on oil than gasoline engines are. The exhaust gas temperatures are lower, and the oil's alkalinity (TBN) drops far slower as the byproducts of diesel combustion are nowhere near as acidic as that of gasoline combustion. Diesels instead suffer from soot accumulation, which gasoline engines do not. For this reason, the TBN of these low-saps oils is not surprising, as it simply isn't needed in as high quantities as would be beneficial for a gasoline engine. 

If you haven't seen Diesel's trending oil analysis comparison, I've attached it in this thread for review. While AMSOIL's 5W-30 low-saps product did better, I would feel confident using either in my vehicle.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> since the Total Quartz oil did not present alarming levels of wear for their service interval, I certainly cannot recommend it either.


i dont understand?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

By the way, I have switched to Amsoil and will be running it exclusively from now on.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

boraz said:


> i dont understand?


That was me typing faster than I could think. 132 words per minute. I had intended to say that I cannot recommend against it. I've since updated my post.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> That was me typing faster than I could think. 132 words per minute. I had intended to say that I cannot recommend against it. I've since updated my post.


10-4


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Has anyone ever posted an analysis with Mobil Super 3000 XE 5W-30? I'm really curious how it compares to Total Quartz and Amsoil.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

PanJet said:


> Has anyone ever posted an analysis with Mobil Super 3000 XE 5W-30? I'm really curious how it compares to Total Quartz and Amsoil.


My Super Dooper Mobil oil has been delivered: 4 days from Germany, 4 days...I had ordered another one from Jegs and it's still on back order, there is month now, I will ask them to give my money back. Shame on you Jegs.com
















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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Man that mobil 1 esp stuff isn't cheap. Amazon.ca wants $60/L


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Ebay my friend

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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00OKK...+motor+oil&dpPl=1&dpID=4157CneDMpL&ref=plSrch


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

money_man said:


> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B00OKK...+motor+oil&dpPl=1&dpID=4157CneDMpL&ref=plSrch


It's not the same, this one is Mobil Super XE 5w30 Dexos2, only $41.50 cad:
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/131543211304?_mwBanner=1


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

pacolino said:


> My Super Dooper Mobil oil has been delivered: 4 days from Germany, 4 days...I had ordered another one from Jegs and it's still on back order, there is month now, I will ask them to give my money back. Shame on you Jegs.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats awesome.....mine at dealer was in liter container. Haven't seen them in 5 liter.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> thats awesome.....mine at dealer was in liter container. Haven't seen them in 5 liter.


Yeap....4 days delivery to Canada, that's amazing.

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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

pacolino said:


> It's not the same, this one is Mobil Super XE 5w30 Dexos2, only $41.50 cad:
> http://m.ebay.ca/itm/131543211304?_mwBanner=1
> 
> 
> Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


Oh yeah I know. Just esp is recommended for the cruze but the price is nuts. At least the link you posted is 5L


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Seller's name on eBay is "Autoteile-Oel.de", I have no intention to promote him but I have to admit that i've never get anything so fast from Europe as this package and I've ordered 4jugs= 20 liters, I'm good now for 4 changes.

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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I just buy it as I need it. With such long intervals I won't stock up.


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## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

money_man said:


> Man that mobil 1 esp stuff isn't cheap. Amazon.ca wants $60/L


I get it at pepboys for 12.00 a liter


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

So why does Mobil have a couple oils that are dexos 2 and available in United States, the Mobil super 3000 ex 5w-30 is what my Chevy dealer put in my car and shows its dexos 2, assume the Mobil esp is dexos 2 as well, why on Mobil website does it say they don't have an oil in United States that is recommended for our Cruze diesel?


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

I believe it's all politics, dexos2 demand is not as high as in Europe, so North America is starving in having a broad range of dexos2 certified oils, as such GM AC Delco is the only one agreeable here in Canada, not even Mobil 1 ESP, I had argued few months ago with my dealership to use a different approved Acea C3 oil fully synthetic in my Cruze, but they didn't agree as it is not Dexos2 approved oil. It's clearly their intention to sell their AC Delco crap oil which is good for a max 5000km, that's it.
check this out:
Suche - Autoteile-oel.de


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

pacolino said:


> I believe it's all politics, dexos2 demand is not as high as in Europe, so North America is starving in having a broad range of dexos2 certified oils, as such GM AC Delco is the only one agreeable here in Canada, not even Mobil 1 ESP, I had argued few months ago with my dealership to use a different approved Acea C3 oil fully synthetic in my Cruze, but they didn't agree as it is not Dexos2 approved oil. It's clearly their intention to sell their AC Delco crap oil which is good for a max 5000km, that's it.
> check this out:
> Suche - Autoteile-oel.de


Not sure where you're sourcing your oil analysis info - but my factory fill was tested by Blackstone and was assessed as capable of 12,500 km.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Not sure where you're sourcing your oil analysis info - but my factory fill was tested by Blackstone and was assessed as capable of 12,500 km.


good luck with 12,500km on AC Delco oil


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

pacolino said:


> good luck with 12,500km on AC Delco oil


That is around 7700 miles, that's the oil that every one of our cars had from the factory and the oil life monitor probably goes to around that amount of miles. That is probably more miles on factory oil than I prefer but why would GM sell a car with bad oil in it? I don't think they did. Just my 2 cents.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> That is around 7700 miles, that's the oil that every one of our cars had from the factory and the oil life monitor probably goes to around that amount of miles. That is probably more miles on factory oil than I prefer but why would GM sell a car with bad oil in it? I don't think they did. Just my 2 cents.


is anyone here who run 12,500 km on his AC Delco oil? If so, how's oil analysis looks like?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

IndyDiesel said:


> but why would GM sell a car with bad oil in it?


Bean counters. It may not be bad oil per se, but I'm sure the bean counters would fuss about spending much more than needed to get it out of warranty. They certainly wouldn't spend anything more than needed to meet a "normal lifespan".


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I ran the factory oil 5150 miles or so. I am not concerned about the factory oil.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> So why does Mobil have a couple oils that are dexos 2 and available in United States, the Mobil super 3000 ex 5w-30 is what my Chevy dealer put in my car and shows its dexos 2, assume the Mobil esp is dexos 2 as well, why on Mobil website does it say they don't have an oil in United States that is recommended for our Cruze diesel?


Last I knew ESP is not dexos2 approved (although it'll work just fine). Mobile Super 3000 Formula G and Super 3000 XE are both dexos2, but neither of them are technically sourced in NA. They both come from Europe.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I ran the dealer free change Dexos2 semi-synthetic oil for the first 30,000 miles (changes around 6,12,18,24K miles). Since then Total Quartz and Amsoil. No ill effects related to oil. I am using Amsoil exclusively now.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Not sure where you're sourcing your oil analysis info - but my factory fill was tested by Blackstone and was assessed as capable of 12,500 km.


Tomko, do u know by any chance a lab for oil analysis in Canada? I have a sample of my 1st oil change with factory oil fill with 3700 miles which I'd like to test it.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Cat can do it for you, as I just found out myself.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

money_man said:


> Cat can do it for you, as I just found out myself.


Toromont Cat?

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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Pretty sure any cat dealership.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Sure they do, thanks.

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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

pacolino said:


> Tomko, do u know by any chance a lab for oil analysis in Canada? I have a sample of my 1st oil change with factory oil fill with 3700 miles which I'd like to test it.


I was dealing with Blackstone in the US. I did a bulk buy from them a number of years ago but used the last one this month. 

Since my reports always came back clean, and I'm sticking with the OLM for change intervals, I'm not planning on doing any more analyses. 

It was a fun project. But what I found was that a full synthetic oil and GM recommended oil change intervals equals no need for oils analysis.

For the record, Blackstone always treated me super well. I'd gladly do business with them again.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

money_man said:


> Pretty sure any cat dealership.


Money_man, toromont caterpillar do oil tests only for businesses, not for private, you need a business account with them in order to process your sample.

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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

That's annoying


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> I was dealing with Blackstone in the US. I did a bulk buy from them a number of years ago but used the last one this month.
> 
> Since my reports always came back clean, and I'm sticking with the OLM for change intervals, I'm not planning on doing any more analyses.
> 
> ...


I should show you a thread on NASIOC where the president of Blackstone Labs joined the forum just to blast me in front of everyone else. The conflict was regarding my claim that they do not measure fuel dilution accurately. He made the insinuation that I was just saying that to sell my own oil analysis product, Oil Analyzers Inc, which is actually tested by Polaris Labs (which is used by Conoco-Phillips, Ingersoll Rand, Allison, and Cummins, just to name a few of their 100+ private labels). You see, Polaris actually uses gas chromatography to test for fuel dilution, while Blackstone estimates it based on flash point, which can fall for other reasons aside from just fuel dilution. 

After pointing out how inappropriate and unprofessional his reply and accusation was, he apologized, but never acknowledged the issue with their testing. A week or two later, a friend of mine (not a customer) that had been using AMSOIL for years drained the oil in his direct injected turbo WRX and sent it to both labs. Blackstone Labs reported <0.5% fuel dilution. OAI/Polaris Labs reported 4.4% fuel dilution. He said the oil *reeked *of fuel when he drained it. 

The president of Blackstone never acknowledged the issue and refused to reply to any of my posts after he issued his apology. I have screenshots of this as well as a link to the thread, where these posts remain unaltered. It is for this reason that I will not use Blackstone Labs. Furthermore, for about the same price, Polaris Labs includes TBN, Oxidation, Nitration, and *accurate *fuel dilution testing. The refusal to acknowledge that their fuel dilution testing was inaccurate came across as a lack of integrity and permanently lost my business.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Interesting Xtreme. As you know I'm all about the truth. So Blackstone having a weakness in one of their methodologies is a concern. 

Glad you spoke truth to power and hopefully their thinking will come around. 

No matter who you are, or how important you are, it is vital to your continued success that you listen to dissenting voices and don't dismiss them outright. 

While I have not read the interaction that you refer to above, it does sound as though you were dismissed. At least initially. 

We are all human beings and suffer the inadacquaies that entails. But the sign of true leadership is to realize that you erred - and then go back to correct it. 

Let us now wait to see how well Blackstone is being led.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Interesting Xtreme. As you know I'm all about the truth. So Blackstone having a weakness in one of their methodologies is a concern.
> 
> Glad you spoke truth to power and hopefully their thinking will come around.
> 
> ...


His first post, in post 353: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread
My reply, in post 359: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread
His apology, in post 402: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread
My reply, in post 404: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread

He ignored me from that point forward. Here are the two analysis reports that surfaced, a few pages later:

Blackstone: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/hdefroy/NASIOC/January2015-Blackstone_zpsovp3dmfx.jpg
OAI/Polaris (Sample 2): http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/hdefroy/NASIOC/January2015-OAI_zps8hxt2bph.jpg

To my knowledge, they haven't made any changes to their fuel dilution testing methods. As I understand it, GC fuel dilution testing is rather expensive and would increase the cost of their analysis by a solid $5-$7.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> His first post, in post 353: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread
> My reply, in post 359: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread
> His apology, in post 402: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread
> My reply, in post 404: NASIOC - View Single Post - 2015 WRX Used Oil Analysis Thread
> ...


Xtreme, is there a local test lab where I can send my oil sample through Oil Analyser Inc? Thanks.

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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> To my knowledge, they haven't made any changes to their fuel dilution testing methods. As I understand it, GC fuel dilution testing is rather expensive and would increase the cost of their analysis by a solid $5-$7.


Therein lies the problem. 

Blackstone provides oil analyses of a quality that you endorse and recommend for many (but not all) applications. They do this to a price point that they've long established in the marketplace. 

To institute GC will raise the quality of their reports on one criteria but at a cost that their clientele may not wish to bare. 

In my words Blackstone provides a Chevrolet of oil analysis. Other providers in the marketplace offer Buick and Cadillac levels of analyses for a matching increase in cost. There will always be a market for both. 

As well, I thought that you both expressed yourselves well in your respective posts. Understanding that I have no background in tribology, the context surrounding the posts, and am necessarily an objective observer of these snapshots in time.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Therein lies the problem.
> 
> Blackstone provides oil analyses of a quality that you endorse and recommend for many (but not all) applications. They do this to a price point that they've long established in the marketplace.
> 
> ...


It is my belief that if you cannot test a metric accurately, you should not be reporting it, as an incorrect reading can be misleading. There is enough misinformation out there regarding the scope and limitations of oil analysis without adding the confusion of inaccurate readings. 

What's worth noting is that one can purchase the Oil Analyzer's Inc analysis kit for roughly the same cost. Blackstone charges $28 for an analysis kit, which does not include TBN testing (that's $10 extra) or the aforementioned tests, and does not include return shipping. Oil Analyzers Inc does include TBN testing, AND includes a prepaid return shipping label, using USPS or UPS, for just shy of $34, which is what you'd pay for shipping on the Blackstone sample anyway. To make matters worse for Blackstone, Oil Analyzers Inc even offers a "value" analysis kit that excludes fuel dilution testing, for just shy of $20 (excluding shipping). 

Blackstone simply isn't competitive unless you buy their product in bulk, and even then, you still don't oxidation and nitration testing.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It is my belief that if you cannot test a metric accurately, you should not be reporting it, as an incorrect reading can be misleading. There is enough misinformation out there regarding the scope and limitations of oil analysis without adding the confusion of inaccurate readings.


I agree with the following caveats: 

1) Blackstone's dilution readings offer comparability only to their own dilution ratings. Therefore they are helpful from a trend analysis point of view. But not as an accurate metric comparable to other laboratories. 

2) Blackstone's dilution readings could be better expressed as a pass / caution / fail indicator to its clients - rather than an absolute number.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> I agree with the following caveats:
> 
> 1) Blackstone's dilution readings offer comparability only to their own dilution ratings. Therefore they are helpful from a trend analysis point of view. But not as an accurate metric comparable to other laboratories.
> 
> 2) Blackstone's dilution readings could be better expressed as a pass / caution / fail indicator to its clients - rather than an absolute number.


I agree, which is why it should be specified as a pass/caution/fail grade instead of presuming to estimate the percentage.


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## Arne73 (Nov 24, 2013)

Is anyone using the Dexos2 oil from the dealerships? I've found it easier than trying to order on line and pay shipping.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Arne73 said:


> Is anyone using the Dexos2 oil from the dealerships? I've found it easier than trying to order on line and pay shipping.


For first oil change I used their GM dexos2, I've started to use my own Mobil Super 3000 xe 5w30 Dexos2 on 2nd oil change and from now on. They only have GM dexos2 here in Canada, in states some dealerships may use different brands.

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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Arne73 said:


> Is anyone using the Dexos2 oil from the dealerships? I've found it easier than trying to order on line and pay shipping.


It is certainly one of the more accessible dexos2 5w30 oils out there. But given that it is a semi-synthetic a lot of folks on here have gone other routes in search of a full synthetic. 

But I would suspect that most CTDs in the wild are running on this and so far I know of no oil-related complaints.


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## Arne73 (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I've been paying 8.32 USD per liter from the dealer.
Mobil1 ESP appears to be around 12.00 USD, usually with free shipping as it turns out.
The comparison here is semi to full syn, a detail I wasn't aware of. 
I think I may jump over to the Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 this change.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Arne73 said:


> I think I may jump over to the Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 this change.


A number of folks in here are using that oil. But strictly speaking it is not dexos2 approved in the 5w30 weight. 

dexos2 Brands | GM


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Arne73 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I've been paying 8.32 USD per liter from the dealer.
> Mobil1 ESP appears to be around 12.00 USD, usually with free shipping as it turns out.
> The comparison here is semi to full syn, a detail I wasn't aware of.
> I think I may jump over to the Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 this change.


I had ordered Mobil Super xe 5w30 Dexos2 from Germany, you won't find it here North America.

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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Tomko said:


> I was dealing with Blackstone in the US. I did a bulk buy from them a number of years ago but used the last one this month.
> 
> Since my reports always came back clean, and I'm sticking with the OLM for change intervals, I'm not planning on doing any more analyses.
> 
> ...


I just received an email from Blackstone with an accounting of my bulk buy. 

It worked out to $35.64 each analysis which included TBN and pre-paid postage.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> I just received an email from Blackstone with an accounting of my bulk buy.
> 
> It worked out to $35.64 each analysis which included TBN and pre-paid postage.


At regular retail, the OAI kit runs $33.90 and that includes either USPS or UPS return postage prepaid, USD of course. There is a discount for a case of sample reports, and of course the non postage prepaid kit which is somewhere around $26.


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## Arne73 (Nov 24, 2013)

The bottles of GM 88865157 that I get from my local dealer are black with a gold label and state "Full Synthetic". On line searches show a blue/silver label and "Synthetic Blend".
What gives, two different products or two different definitions?


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Arne73 said:


> The bottles of GM 88865157 that I get from my local dealer are black with a gold label and state "Full Synthetic". On line searches show a blue/silver label and "Synthetic Blend".
> What gives, two different products or two different definitions?


Nope...see picture attached:









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## Arne73 (Nov 24, 2013)

Here's mine....
P/N 88865157.

Your oil has a different P/N


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

many parts have had parts number changes since the car came out.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Arne73 said:


> View attachment 179073
> 
> 
> Here's mine....
> ...


That's interesting for sure

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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Back in 2013, at least, the 88865157 was for the semi-synthetic.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> At regular retail, the OAI kit runs $33.90 and that includes either USPS or UPS return postage prepaid, USD of course. There is a discount for a case of sample reports, and of course the non postage prepaid kit which is somewhere around $26.


Xtreme, I'm curious about one thing. Can you clarify the relationship between OAI and Amsoil?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Xtreme, I'm curious about one thing. Can you clarify the relationship between OAI and Amsoil?


Polaris Labs has a private label program that allows other companies to use their oil analysis service and brand it under their own. Examples include Conoco-Phillips, Ingersoll Rand, Cummins, Allison, and over a hundred others. Oil Analyzers Inc is one of those. That is AMSOIL's private label for Polaris Labs' analysis service.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

It doesn't take much to get me excited but... yesterday I found a Dexos2 recommended oil on the shelf in small town USA.arty:

Well I guess you have to take that with some interpretation, at our local BIG R I found Amsoil European Formula in 5W-40 which states on the label "recommended for ACEA C3, GM Dexos2" , etc, etc. For me this was a positive since a big box store was recognizing a small market void to be filled.:th_dblthumb2: But if there are any engine warranty claims due to questions on engine oil it would seem that you would be left with going to Amzoil for their "recommended for Dexos2" rather then GM because it does not have the "Dexos2" cert trade mark on the label. 

But what excited me was the fact that a non auto parts store recognized the market and attempted to fill the void. Although those of us that are litigious minded might feel this was not the best choice in filling the dexos2 void. Where as the parts stores including my local Autozone, Advanced Auto, NAPA, Murphy's and all local fuel stops DO NOT recognize the dexos2 market at all.:angry: All that they say is that shelf space is only for what SELLS THE MOST. Though maybe they also are rebelling against paying the pound of flesh for the GM "branding". :uhh: :th_down:

For those that use AMSOIL in the diesel any comments on the application? Residing in a State that can get to real -37F in the winter I'm a little hesitant about the 5W-40 considering this winter with 5W-30 Total Quartz @-5F, the diesel engine with no heater was a bit sluggish in just popping off?


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## DECruzer (Jul 19, 2015)

theonlypheonix said:


> It doesn't take much to get me excited but... yesterday I found a Dexos2 recommended oil on the shelf in small town USA.arty:
> 
> Well I guess you have to take that with some interpretation, at our local BIG R I found Amsoil European Formula in 5W-40 which states on the label "recommended for ACEA C3, GM Dexos2" , etc, etc. For me this was a positive since a big box store was recognizing a small market void to be filled.:th_dblthumb2: But if there are any engine warranty claims due to questions on engine oil it would seem that you would be left with going to Amzoil for their "recommended for Dexos2" rather then GM because it does not have the "Dexos2" cert trade mark on the label.
> 
> ...


That's amazing that you found that oil on the shelf. Might mean there is promise for the rest of us. Anyway, the "5" in the oil rating is the cold weather number, so if 5W-30 works, then 5W-40 will. With your temps though, 0W-XX might be worth using during the winter. If you can find a Dexos 2 version......


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## 2014Oilburner (Feb 1, 2015)

I was in Pep Boys here in Delaware and noticed that they had Mobil One ESP oil on the shelf that meets the ACEA C3 standards.


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## DECruzer (Jul 19, 2015)

2014Oilburner said:


> I was in Pep Boys here in Delaware and noticed that they had Mobil One ESP oil on the shelf that meets the ACEA C3 standards.


I've always been a Mobil 1 guy, but am going with the reformulated Amsoil European Car 5W-30 since it now says Dexos 2 on it. Now if I can convince my local NAPA to carry it on the shelf so I don't have to mail order it...Originally I was going to use what the dealer had, but I think Amsoil is the way to go. 
Where you at Oilburner? Felton checking in...


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

DECruzer said:


> That's amazing that you found that oil on the shelf. Might mean there is promise for the rest of us. Anyway, the "5" in the oil rating is the cold weather number, so if 5W-30 works, then 5W-40 will. With your temps though, 0W-XX might be worth using during the winter. If you can find a Dexos 2 version......


Yep 5W is for cold performance but get a few thousand miles on the oil with soot accumulation, the additives start breaking down and the oil will no longer perform at cold temps. Maybe with a bypass oil filter system, but the Cruze diesel is great for turning engine oil black faster then a hardworking 6.0L PS with Rotella T6.


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## 2014Oilburner (Feb 1, 2015)

DECruzer said:


> I've always been a Mobil 1 guy, but am going with the reformulated Amsoil European Car 5W-30 since it now says Dexos 2 on it. Now if I can convince my local NAPA to carry it on the shelf so I don't have to mail order it...Originally I was going to use what the dealer had, but I think Amsoil is the way to go.
> Where you at Oilburner? Felton checking in...


I live in Bear


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

theonlypheonix said:


> For those that use AMSOIL in the diesel any comments on the application?


I've been using the non dexos-2 low SAPS European formula 5W30 for a couple changes now (roughly 30K miles out of 156K). Not enough to really tell long term effects, but based on Amsoil's reputation and some testing results, I think it's a great oil for the long haul.


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## 1877 iris ave (Sep 23, 2011)

Well i guess it easy to miss this from other threads but Amsoil now makes a 5w-30 dexos2 oil. It can be ordered from Amsoil or any Amsoil dealer or retail store registered with Amsoil.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I so wish rotella t6 was dexos 2 approved or recommended for the dexos 2 standards. i use that t6 in my motorcycle, vw turbo, my old supra and they all have strong compression and sparkling clean cams... no carbon to be seen


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

1877 iris ave said:


> Well i guess it easy to miss this from other threads but Amsoil now makes a 5w-30 dexos2 oil. It can be ordered from Amsoil or any Amsoil dealer or retail store registered with Amsoil.


Pretty sure it's only dexos 2 compatible or recommended.


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## 1877 iris ave (Sep 23, 2011)

money man you are correct. Amsoil 5w-30 ( product code AEL) is not a GM licensed product. But it is a new (Jan 2016) product that has been designed to meet or exceed dexos2 specifications.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

Just picked up the synblend Dexos from the dealer $10 a quart and 23 for the filter ouch! The last oil change the dealer used regular dexos1! Who knows what was used before that.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

jkhawaii said:


> Just picked up the synblend Dexos from the dealer $10 a quart and 23 for the filter ouch! The last oil change the dealer used regular dexos1! Who knows what was used before that.


Wow that is pricey, I would order some Dexos 2 oil of your choice soon on the internet, there are many choices and most are below that price and full synthetic.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

Shipping to Hawaii is usually not available or to expensive


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

jkhawaii said:


> Shipping to Hawaii is usually not available or to expensive


Might try to get enough oil and filters for a few oil changes. I found one place that will ship 12 ac delco oil filters for diesel for less than $9 a piece to my door.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

Yeah oil filters would be ok. Oil is considered hazardous so it's harder to ship to hawaii.


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## vahuja987 (Oct 15, 2017)

Dexos 2 , any options to find at walmart or canadian tire in canada


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