# Air box mod for Canadian winter



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Might not be a bad idea, may help improve winter MPG.


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## WHITECO (Mar 31, 2011)

The colder air you can get into the engine the better.....I drove the last two winters with the tubing out....you will be fine!!


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

WHITECO said:


> The colder air you can get into the engine the better.....I drove the last two winters with the tubing out....you will be fine!!


Sure he should be fine, but remember these motors take awhile to warm up so warming the intake air in the winter might give quicker available heat. I think some on here with the Injen Intake convert from cold air to short ram(warm air) in the winter.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Really doubt it would make that much of a difference either way. The air it's drawing in from the fender/underhood area is about as warm. Keep in mind the radiator gets no coolant flow until the thermostat opens, so it's cold as long as the engine is too. 

The intake air is heated by the turbocharger (quite a bit!) and then cooled off again substantially by the cold air flowing through intercooler. 


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## WHITECO (Mar 31, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Really doubt it would make that much of a difference either way. The air it's drawing in from the fender/underhood area is about as warm. Keep in mind the radiator gets no coolant flow until the thermostat opens, so it's cold as long as the engine is too.
> 
> The intake air is heated by the turbocharger (quite a bit!) and then cooled off again substantially by the cold air flowing through intercooler.
> 
> ...


What he said


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> Really doubt it would make that much of a difference either way. The air it's drawing in from the fender/underhood area is about as warm.


I think your right, but if you have your lower engine shield hacked there sure is a heck of allot more cold air getting to the airbox with the resonator delete. this area is within 6inches of the air under the car, I believe only one of the side pieces they put back is below the airbox.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Yeah blocking off the radiator was the way to warm up quicker. As said above, that turbo right off the head heats up pretty fast. Has anyone with a non eco converted to our closed off upper grille?


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Boostpatrol said:


> Hello. I recently did the spark plug gap modification to .028" from factory .025" and I also did the air box mod where u pull out the tubing. Would I be wise to put this piece back before the cold Canadian winter? I ask because it seems that the factory piping pulls warm air from the radiator area which I am thinking may be a good thing for winter. Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I have a K&N SRI and had no troubles at all last Winter and im in Quebec.

The 1.4 in Winter stays cold for a long time if your on idle or at slow speed, but as soon as you go faster then 40mph, it warms up real fast.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Not worth it. The intercooler cools the air back off quite well in winter temperatures.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

So here we have a world class engine developed by the top GM engineers, variable valve timing with practically a flat torque curve. Capable of over 45 mpg if driven sanely if you can find good gas. An incredible 1.6 HP per cube, undreamed of just a few short years ago. A super quiet timing chain replacing that rubber band. Plus many other features.

But when it comes to the air cleaner, according to some, complete idiots.

Another little known fact of life, if you fool with it, you modified your vehicle, really don't care how simple it is, 55 is 55 and a modification is a modification. If you don't report this to your insurance company can be denied any claim, whether its your fault or not. 

Want a suggestion?  Put it back the way it was. So far, any suggestion was made by people as to what they think, none of this is based on fact.

If you are bored, get into model RC car racing, a ton of stuff available, leave your car alone.


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## 2013LT (Jul 3, 2013)

^ I agree with this to an extent. I leave my DD alone and I mod my civic. Just in case something happens


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

2013LT said:


> ^ I agree with this to an extent. I leave my DD alone and I mod my civic. Just in case something happens


Eh. Removing the resonator snorkel improves drivability so much, and they [the dealer] won't even bat an eye.

A SRI/CAI...yeah, they tend not to like those.


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## WHITECO (Mar 31, 2011)

NickD said:


> So here we have a world class engine developed by the top GM engineers, variable valve timing with practically a flat torque curve. Capable of over 45 mpg if driven sanely if you can find good gas. An incredible 1.6 HP per cube, undreamed of just a few short years ago. A super quiet timing chain replacing that rubber band. Plus many other features.
> 
> But when it comes to the air cleaner, according to some, complete idiots.
> 
> ...



You have to keep in mind that the engineers also have to make a quiet car....that whole intake system plus the air cleaner with the extra foam is all there to make the car quieter. A side effect to all this piping is that it also reduces performance. The reason why people take the piping out is because it gives a slight improvement in throttle response, It also makes you able to hear the turbo...some people like that.

Whether you keep it or take it out it isn't going to make a big difference either way. 

In the end just do whatever will make you happy!!


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

NickD said:


> So here we have a world class engine developed by the top GM engineers, variable valve timing with practically a flat torque curve. Capable of over 45 mpg if driven sanely if you can find good gas. An incredible 1.6 HP per cube, undreamed of just a few short years ago. A super quiet timing chain replacing that rubber band. Plus many other features.
> 
> But when it comes to the air cleaner, according to some, complete idiots.
> 
> ...


When I smacked a deer earlier this year, my insurance did not care one way or the other whether the resonators ahead of the OEM airbox were deleted or not. A CAI, yeah, they might care about that.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Granted, being a bit over critical on removing that air coupler to the so-called resonator box that it really isn't. More of a muffler that takes air in from the front of the wheel well ahead of the the condenser and radiator. And the noise is in back of the grille rather than the inside of the engine compartment.

Tuned intake definitely improves performance where the resonator term applies, based on the speed of sound intake pipes length should be variable with engine rpm so the pulsations resonate, but such is not practical. But does give quite a boost over a very limited rpm range. And what is an air box? 

So what is really gained by removing that coupler, besides more noise? One way to test this is to post 0-60 times with and without it. A kinder way on the drivetrain, would be to post 30-60 mph times in third gear with WOT. Ha, a major attract to us is how quiet the Cruze is.

Taking my Cruze to the dealer tomorrow for a new driver's side window weather strip, foam is not the cure. Showed my dealer where the gap in the upper rear corner is 5/16" where the other three are 1/8", even compared it with another Cruze on their lot where that same weather strip was an eighth of an inch. No question, going to replace that under warranty. Hopefully this will result in more quiet.

So if your aim is more noise, you are welcomed to my old weather strip.

One thing that should be picked on is that coagulated hose between the air cleaner and the turbo, creates a lot of eddy currents restricting the air flow. If I compare this with my Supra, using all cast aluminum smooth bore piping. But today, that would be a $95,000 vehicle compared to a $20,000 vehicle as the Cruze.

Heck, let's just leave removing that air coupler as a trivial point.

Speaking about mufflers, how about replacing yours with a straight pipe? But would get you ticket for sure. Sure don't pick on the Canadian railroad through the center of town using four locomotives to pull a 1.8 mile train, nor motorcycles with straight pipes, nor all these snowplows with super loud reverse beepers, nor car alarms that go off in the middle of the night.

We live in a hypocritical society.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Had a car totaled and it had intake on it. Same for others in my car club in the DMV area. If you haven't had your accident cherry popped, move to DMV area (VA over MD and DC if you have guns).

As for being noisy it hasn't done much. Rev any car to redline and it will be noisy. I did res and foam and still can't hear turbo noises with windows down unless I am in a rural area where it's just me and deer in 2nd gear. After that its wind noise and the shifter. The trans shifting is actually louder. If you want noisy modified air boxes here is my Subaru on 100% recirculated air. Cruze is nothing like this until you start cutting holes into something. I'd buy a intake before going that route. 


http://youtu.be/kU7m67jEef4


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

NickD said:


> So here we have a world class engine developed by the top GM engineers, variable valve timing with practically a flat torque curve. Capable of over 45 mpg if driven sanely if you can find good gas. An incredible 1.6 HP per cube, undreamed of just a few short years ago. A super quiet timing chain replacing that rubber band. Plus many other features.
> 
> But when it comes to the air cleaner, according to some, complete idiots.
> 
> ...


I tend to agree. 

GM designs and tests these things in Kapuskasing during the winter and Arizona in the summer. GM is so cheap about things and conscious about weight that they won't even put an extra thread on a bolt. So if it's there from the factory, it's there for a darn good reason. 

Back in the early days of the Internet a lot of Impala SS guys modded their intakes until a couple ingested water and destroyed their engines. Then everyone switched back to stock. 

In winter ingesting water could include snow flakes that would otherwise be caught by the stock system. 

I also recall reading once that GM tests its intakes to withstand love bug season in Florida. I have no idea what that is - but you get the picture. 

Just sayin' and of course YMMV.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

What atomizes fuel , petrol ,Gasoline , warmer air or cold air ? 
There is a man whom performed an experiment on his cruze here , and he did post a thread . Look for temperature controlled intake . Engineers .


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Boostpatrol said:


> ..it seems that the factory piping pulls warm air from the radiator area which I am thinking may be a good thing for winter.


The factory intake duct actually pulls cold air from above the radiator, just beneath the plastic shroud around the hood latch. It is a cold air intake.

Warm air atomizes fuel better than cold air, but any effort at a warm air intake for winter will probably be foiled by the intercooler cooling it off. The Eco's shutters block the intercooler when closed, but there's still a large mass of aluminum in the intercooler that will suck heat out of the intake air.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

In regards to atomization, block temperature is already at 20*F, then since the intake cycle follows the exhaust cycle. Combustion chamber temperatures are already at 1,200*F or above. Really doubt if atomization is a problem. Also running an engine too lean can result in burnt out exhaust valves. That fresh supply of cooler air and fuel is required to help prevent that.

So on one hand, we debate about cooler input temperatures for more air density, on the other, warmer for better atomization. When is this going to stop? Going around in circles on this subject. Besides the ratios of ambient temperatures are next to insignificant in regards to internal engine temperatures.

One thing for sure, that air coupler is the only means of support on the right side of the air cleaner that does have considerable mass subject to both engine and pot hole vibrations. Is plastic, subject to becoming brittle with age. And if you look at the cost of these air cleaner components, if it breaks, you will wish you left that air coupler in. 

Another consideration with air, we are building an over excess of machines that are consuming the air we need to survive. That by the way didn't sway congress in the least back during he energy crisis back in the 70's when alternate sources of vehicle propulsion was proposed. So another 40 years went by since then, and not a thing was done to develop these means. Just more wars, American lives killed, far more vehicles on the road. 14,000 new tanker ships were built to haul crap from China we can make ourselves further compounding the problems.

And the group proposing these changes were engineers and scientists, not marketing nor bean counters.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

NickD said:


> In regards to atomization, block temperature is already at 20*F, then since the intake cycle follows the exhaust cycle. Combustion chamber temperatures are already at 1,200*F or above. Really doubt if atomization is a problem.


Cars used to have warm air intakes, as I'm sure you are aware. With port fuel injection, the time the fuel is exposed to air before ignition is drastically reduced from the carburator/TBI (Throttle Body Injection) days. Add to this higher pressure fuel systems with much improved injector spray patterns as well as winter formula gasoline which atomizes better to begin with (not to mention better ignition systems, combustion chamber designs and catalyst performance), and the Warm Air Intake is no longer a requirement to meet cold start emissions/drivability on new passenger cars. That doesn't mean it wouldn't help, it just means there's no financial justification for auto manufacturers to implement it.



NickD said:


> Another consideration with air, we are building an over excess of machines that are consuming the air we need to survive.


Quick, everyone go out and plant a tree!


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

So the ? Is valid and those two nuckle heads succeeded !


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

NickD said:


> Another little known fact of life, if you fool with it, you modified your vehicle, really don't care how simple it is, 55 is 55 and a modification is a modification. If you don't report this to your insurance company can be denied any claim, whether its your fault or not.


WRONG!!!

They just won't pay for any damaged modified parts! Think about how many people put new rims on their car, a lot of people say nothing to insurance company, guy hits your car damaging your RIMs, insurance company will replace with a stock wheel not a 1500 dollar wheel... Learn your facts before you starting making false statements....


On another not i would recommend putting it back for winter as I even have an Sri K&N I take it off so salt won't get on it but that's not the point I'm trying to get at. 

Warmer air in that cold cold winter will 1) heat up your car faster 2) give you better fuel mileage because car is running at right temp, my old trucks have a little metal hose coming from the exhaust to the intake not from inside the exhaust it sits over top and directs the warm air into the air box, you remove that in the winter on those and bye bye gas mileage 


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Well how do you come to such conclusions ? Is your pistol still smoking from those shots that you just have to spew ? Or did you really get an Engineering Degree ? One big thing I do know that you could not possible dispute is that you did not Mod your air box to allow only warm air to enter and mix with the fuel in a combustion chamber . 

Research a little more on the subject , Period ... cyclopsic wrath maybe you could elaborate on what has happened to ​ Francis ?


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> Well how do you come to such conclusions ? Is your pistol still smoking from those shots that you just have to spew ? Or did you really get an Engineering Degree ? One big thing I do know that you could not possible dispute is that you did not Mod your air box to allow only warm air to enter and mix with the fuel in a combustion chamber .
> 
> Research a little more on the subject , Period ... cyclopsic wrath maybe you could elaborate on what has happened to ​ Francis ?


And how do you know it's wrong? Where is your degree?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> WRONG!!!
> 
> They just won't pay for any damaged modified parts! Think about how many people put new rims on their car, a lot of people say nothing to insurance company, guy hits your car damaging your RIMs, insurance company will replace with a stock wheel not a 1500 dollar wheel... Learn your facts before you starting making false statements....
> 
> ...


So you are saying its okay to play with the air cleaner circuit on your Cruze, but not with those thermionic air cleaners on your older vehicles.

In regards to modifications to your vehicle, should perhaps be more clear on this subject with 30 years experience as an expert witness. Never was involved with fender benders. Only cases involved with injury or death with at least a 1/4 million buck claim leading to severe injury or death. Most were multi-million claims. If it can be proven a modification lead to that injury or death. 

Granted, my cases were involved with electrical or electronic modifications, but with any powertrain modifications, you will be against the sharpest minds in the industry. And if it can be proven a modification led to say a stalled vehicle on a freeway resulting in mile pile up. Not only will you be denied your claim, but would be held liable for all the vehicles behind you. 

Let's just call this a risk that you are willing to take. Go ahead and take it. Here is one possible scenario to think about. Removing that air coupler, radiator springs a leak, draws coolant into the air cleaner stalling the engine causing a huge accident.

Certainly appears we have different backgrounds on this subject. Also provided means to test if removing this coupler does provide an increase of performance, So far, nobody posted the results, neither in performance or in fuel economy.

And also would be nice to respond in a more civil manner.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

NickD said:


> And if it can be proven a modification led to say a stalled vehicle on a freeway resulting in mile pile up. Not only will you be denied your claim, but would be held liable for all the vehicles behind you.
> 
> Let's just call this a risk that you are willing to take. Go ahead and take it. Here is one possible scenario to think about. Removing that air coupler, radiator springs a leak, draws coolant into the air cleaner stalling the engine causing a huge accident.


Something to ponder.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> _And if it can be proven a modification led to say a stalled vehicle on a freeway resulting in mile pile up. Not only will you be denied your claim, but would be held liable for all the vehicles behind you. _
> 
> _Let's just call this a risk that you are willing to take. Go ahead and take it. Here is one possible scenario to think about. Removing that air coupler, radiator springs a leak, draws coolant into the air cleaner stalling the engine causing a huge accident._


You're more likely to hit a pterodactyl on your way to work than that actually happening.


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

NickD said:


> So you are saying its okay to play with the air cleaner circuit on your Cruze, but not with those thermionic air cleaners on your older vehicles.
> 
> In regards to modifications to your vehicle, should perhaps be more clear on this subject with 30 years experience as an expert witness. Never was involved with fender benders. Only cases involved with injury or death with at least a 1/4 million buck claim leading to severe injury or death. Most were multi-million claims. If it can be proven a modification lead to that injury or death.
> 
> ...


Well in Canada I'm covered no matter what, 4 mill liability I'm not worried


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> You're more likely to hit a pterodactyl on your way to work than that actually happening.


Like I tried to clarify, its a risk, but how about some intelligent conversation as to whether this risk is worth the benefits? If there are any benefits at all.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

There's a whole 47-page thread on the benefits.

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/57-how-library/5479-how-bypass-intake-resonator.html


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> There's a whole 47-page thread on the benefits.
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/57-how-library/5479-how-bypass-intake-resonator.html


Yes there is benefits but are we not talking about this mod in a Canadian winter we already know there's a benefit in summer cooler air not from the engine bay get in there, way better but it's the cool air in the winter I'm talking -20 that might hurt fuel mileage, but if you don't car about the mileage run it


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Yes there is benefits but are we not talking about this mod in a Canadian winter we already know there's a benefit in summer cooler air not from the engine bay get in there, way better but it's the cool air in the winter I'm talking -20 that might hurt fuel mileage, but if you don't car about the mileage run it





> *The air it's drawing in from the fender/underhood area is about as warm. Keep in mind the radiator gets no coolant flow until the thermostat opens, so it's cold as long as the engine is too.
> 
> The intake air is heated by the turbocharger (quite a bit!) and then cooled off again substantially by the cold air flowing through intercooler. *





> *The factory intake duct actually pulls cold air from above the radiator, just beneath the plastic shroud around the hood latch. It is a cold air intake.*


The restriction is in the convoluted piping before it reaches that, not much to do with temperature.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

The effects of heated air has been proven right here on this forum by 2 gentlemen .. mileage . Miles per gallon .. etc. And the results have been documented . Good old american Enginuity can and does work well . Go back to last years publications .


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> The effects of heated air has been proven right here on this forum by 2 gentlemen .. mileage . Miles per gallon .. etc. And the results have been documented . Good old american Enginuity can and does work well . Go back to last years publications .


Where? Give us some links... No matter what you guys say the res delete is mainly for the turbo sound.. It lets cooler air reach an Sri as well, but putting a K&N drop in with res delete will give you better throttle response just from the filter alone... I believe his mod is only taking the baffles out so you can hear her spool no harm done now stop arguing about this mod.. The op just wants to know about cold winters and this delete, I've never done it i don't kno what it looks like with it out, my main concern would water be able to get in there without the Res


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> The effects of heated air has been proven right here on this forum by 2 gentlemen .. mileage . Miles per gallon .. etc. And the results have been documented . Good old american Enginuity can and does work well . Go back to last years publications .


And I can give anyone good information with my dual aero force gauge set ups I can see 1at ,cat temp, intake air temp, ambient air temp... Many more I know when it's hot and can feel when it's hot the loss in power.. I'm talking 45 degrees outside hot...


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> And I can give anyone good information with my dual aero force gauge set ups I can see 1at ,cat temp, intake air temp, ambient air temp... Many more I know when it's hot and can feel when it's hot the loss in power.. I'm talking 45 degrees outside hot...


And you sir are back to your old ways these distinguished old guys have been around cars longer than you've been alive sonny boy so shoe your elders some respect or did your parents not teach you that.

Sent From An Antique,
My Original Droid.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

We are not discussing a resonator delete , but the utilization of an air box that controls the temps of air flow into the intake ! This has been accomplished already young man . The purpose of the box is to heat said air before said air < oxygen molecules > reach intake to supplement the affect of fuel Atomizing before combustion . Ie winter air Temps .


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## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Yes there is benefits but are we not talking about this mod in a Canadian winter we already know there's a benefit in summer cooler air not from the engine bay get in there, way better but it's the cool air in the winter I'm talking -20 that might hurt fuel mileage, but if you don't car about the mileage run it


And so what? You think that just because you live in Canada, no on in the US has ever experienced a winter like you? There are plenty of places in the US that have dealt with sub zero temperatures with this mod and have not had a problem. The other thing that you have to realize is that the reso delete does not change where air comes into the stock air box, it simply prevents the resonator from silencing the air box. Air is still pulled from the fender/front grille area.



CyclonicWrath said:


> Where? Give us some links... No matter what you guys say the res delete is mainly for the turbo sound.. It lets cooler air reach an Sri as well, but putting a K&N drop in with res delete will give you better throttle response just from the filter alone... I believe his mod is only taking the baffles out so you can hear her spool no harm done now stop arguing about this mod.. The op just wants to know about cold winters and this delete, I've never done it i don't kno what it looks like with it out, my main concern would water be able to get in there without the Res


Yes, you are correct in that it simply removes the "baffles"[intake resonator]. The primary purpose has nothing to do with turbo sound, but instead better throttle response by removing the resonator, which also happens to make the turbo more audible; however it still doesn't make the turbo loud, simply audible. 

Your concern about water getting into the air box/intake without the resonator however, is as concerning with water getting to a SRI. The intake inside the factory air box still sits in the same place as from factory [approximately 4" above the metal opening in the fender well going from the engine bay to the fender well. And coupled with the drain hose worked in with the air box, in order to hydrolock your Cruze with the reso delete, you would literally have to have your lower grill under the water line. The other thing you have to think about is that the fender well CAI hydrolocking has only happened because water got into the lower grille area/came up through the holes underneath the car, and filled up tot he intake which literally sits 2-3" above the plastic aero panels on the bottom of the car. Where as the stock air filter sits a decent 18-20" above that, at least.



CyclonicWrath said:


> And I can give anyone good information with my dual aero force gauge set ups I can see 1at ,cat temp, intake air temp, ambient air temp... Many more I know when it's hot and can feel when it's hot the loss in power.. I'm talking 45 degrees outside hot...


Even though this thread has for some reason or the other, gotten off topic. You have actually tried to answer the OP's question to some extent; however you need to fight the urge to stoop to name calling. Present your ideas/facts on the matter and let them speak for themselves. This isn't Kindergarten, calling someone a poo head holds no educational merit and instead makes you seem... dim whitted.



brian v said:


> We are not discussing a resonator delete , but the utilization of an air box that controls the temps of air flow into the intake ! This has been accomplished already young man . The purpose of the box is to heat said air before said air < oxygen molecules > reach intake to supplement the affect of fuel Atomizing before combustion . Ie winter air Temps .





Boostpatrol said:


> Hello. I recently did the spark plug gap modification to .028" from factory .025" and *I also did the air box mod where u pull out the tubing*. *Would I be wise to put this piece back before the cold Canadian winter?* I ask because it seems that the factory piping pulls warm air from the radiator area which I am thinking may be a good thing for winter. Any thoughts?


Even with pulling the entire air ducting out of the car, the stock air box still pulls air in from the fender well, compared to a combination of the fender well as well as behind the front grill. If anyone has ever taken the front grille off, you will see that the center opening from the larger grill is not blocked off from the smaller upper grille by the bar that contains the bowtie. Therefore, Chevy is able to block off the upper grille on the ECO models to reduce the amount of air that has to do turbulent gymnastics after it enters the opening, which thus creates slightly more drag, while still allowing air to enter the intake ducting. Thus, the stock air box DOES NOT pull air in through the hook holding the hood down as Xtreme said in his original thread, and instead pulls air in from outside the car. At which point there is no difference between receiving air through the ducting, or through the fender well.

And in all honesty, the only way that you will lose performance due to an intake taking in hot air from our cars that is significant enough to be noticeable, is from an SRI taking air directly into your engine; or the heat of the engine heating up the metal tubing of the aftermarket intake itself and thus heating the air as it passes through the ducting to the throttle body.

Keep it civilized now guys.


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

I'm talking about the cold air not giving good gas mileage not the heat, but apparently its cold air Anyway


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

CyclonicWrath said:


> I'm talking about the cold air not giving good gas mileage not the heat, but apparently its cold air Anyway




Yes, it's gonna be cold no mater where you get it, the resonator assembly just plays with a bit to quiet it down before it takes it long journey into the engine. 

The airbox is suspended by rubber mounts so it is independent of the resonator assembly. Removal of the tube didn't cause it to lose structural rigidity and now it's just flopping around under there. I posted a vid of how loud my Subaru sounds with similar mod, this car is still quiet inside with that and foam removed from the filter. If anyone does the res mod for the sound gratification alone I'd say still do the mod but save up for a SRI. Don't care what kind of sauce you put on it, it's still a McRib sandwich. If you want quality meat you gotta buy quality meat(SRI).​


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Smurf that is all well and good , would some one please release the fact that there is a modification that controls the Temperature of said air , this is accomplished by an addition of a heated enclosure just before intake ! And this system does work . There is video for the masses to follow along as always , and no I am not going to give you a link do your own work by researching these ideas . This is how we learn , we do our own research . Thanks NickD ....been to Kankakee lately ?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

[/QUOTE] Thanks NickD ....been to Kankakee lately ?[/QUOTE]

Not since my daughter moved to South Carolina. But then we missed the Iolo car show and the EAA convention again this year.

Always check my air filter each oil change, don't even know why, just a very light coating of dust on that white, vacuum that off like new again.

But always find a bunch of dead flies on the bottom, also vacuum those up. Thinking of changing the name from air cleaner to Venus flytrap.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

This Wikipedia article explains the concept behind Warm Air Intakes (WAI):

Warm air intake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is even possible to eliminate the throttle body completely (and related pumping losses as a result) by dramatically heating the intake air:

Throttleless Premixed-Charge Engines

...but this requires a fuel that has a high knock threshold, much higher than conventional gasoline. The concept is the same, though, and a warm air intake system that regulated intake air to a "reasonably" warm temperature would pay off with higher efficiency through lower pumping losses. Excessively high IAT will cause the engine to start pulling ignition timing, so IAT would have to be regulated safely below that threshold.

Current EPA testing does not allow the benefits of systems like this to be shown on the window sticker, so no manufacturers don't bother with the Engineering/expense of putting these systems in their cars. If they can't sell it to the customer with EPA backed data, there's no point.

This is but one of many ways to benefit from wasted exhaust heat energy, and maybe the easiest. A WAI is something I would like to experiment with, but doing so on a turbocharged engine with an intercooler will be much more complicated than it would be on a Naturally Aspirated car.


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> This Wikipedia article explains the concept behind Warm Air Intakes (WAI):
> 
> Warm air intake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


You know a 5 year old could write that stuff on Wikipedia, its just useless info till you have some very hard evidence that it's true. 


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> Smurf that is all well and good , would some one please release the fact that there is a modification that controls the Temperature of said air , this is accomplished by an addition of a heated enclosure just before intake ! And this system does work . There is video for the masses to follow along as always , and no I am not going to give you a link do your own work by researching these ideas . This is how we learn , we do our own research . Thanks NickD ....been to Kankakee lately ?


Do you just type to read your own stuff? don't talk if your not going to back up with whatever it is your talking about cuz I have no clue. 


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Do you just type to read your own stuff? don't talk if your not going to back up with whatever it is your talking about cuz I have no clue.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Wow dude you just want the ban hammer don't you lol always arguing he know his stuff bro just like blue angel just chill out.

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My Original Droid.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> You know a 5 year old could write that stuff on Wikipedia, its just useless info till you have some very hard evidence that it's true.


You're absolutely right.

Perhaps the second link, the one you didn't mention, would be worth consideration? You know, the one that demonstrates in an extreme example the significant gains a Warm Air Intake is capable of? That one is a scientific experiment conducted under laboratory conditions by a bunch of people who have invested their careers into internal combustion engine development, any one of which probably has more relative knowledge than the entire collective membership of this board.

The fact the Wikipedia article echoes the principles proven in that lab experiment is pure coincidence. It is, however, a handy reference to the topic and saves me some typing.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> The restriction is in the convoluted piping before it reaches that, not much to do with temperature.


THIS!

Do any of you know how hot turbos run and just how much heat they add to the air charge that they compress? 

Removing this resonator duct has negligible effects on the intake air temperature at the intake manifold after it has gone through the turbo and intercooler. Doesn't matter what the ambient temperature is. The basis of this discussion is based on a question that demonstrates a definite lack of understanding of how turbos affect ambient air temperature. 

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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> THIS!
> 
> Do any of you know how hot turbos run and just how much heat they add to the air charge that they compress?
> 
> ...


Sure the turbo heats the intake air(and intercooler cools it), but one has to wonder does leaving the piping in place(or building a true hot air intake) have any effect on how quick the engine will warm up from cold? If its even 1 minute faster I would be worth it to me. 

If one looks at the design of the factory piping sure it looks like its there to just silence the turbo, but I wonder if its more than that. At full length the actual spot it sucks air seems to be able to get warm and cold air, the piping also lays across the front of Radiator/inter-cooler to warm one side of piping and the other side is exposed to the outside air to cool it. Seems this might indicate our cars come factory equipped with a new kind of intake, a warm air and cold air intake. 

I have my factory intake fully intact and noticed a HUGE improvement over my last few GM cars winter MPG, IDK the exact percent but with the cruze I lost 6mpg average, the last two cars were 10mpg average. My winter driving includes more idling, and 80% city vs my normal 35% city so I do loose more than the average person.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

So here is the real question has anyone tested the intake air temperature in the winter with the factory intake? With a fully warmed up car is it higher than outside temperatures? I suspect it is.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Sure the turbo heats the intake air(and intcooler cools it), but one has to wonder does leaving the piping in place(or building a true hot air intake) have any effect on how quick the engine will warm up from cold? If its even 1 minute faster I would be worth it to me.
> 
> If one looks at the design of the factory piping sure it looks like its their to just silence the turbo, but I wonder if its more than that. At full length the actual spot it sucks air seems to be able to get warm and cold air, the piping also lays across the front of Radiator/inter-cooler to warm one side of piping and the other side is exposed to the outside air to cool it. Seems this might indicate our cars come factory equipped with a new kind of intake, a warm air and cold air intake.
> 
> I have my factory intake fully intact and noticed a HUGE improvement over my last few GM cars winter MPG, IDK the exact percent but with the cruze I lost 6mpg average, the last two cars were 10mpg average. My winter driving includes more idling, and 80% city vs my normal 35% city so I do loose more than the average person.


What we need to consider here is how much energy is required to heat that engine up to operating temperature and how much of an effect the air temperature *in the intake* has on that. 

In all honesty, since air holds very little actual energy compared to coolant due to an insignificantly low density, it will have an insignificant effect on engine temperatures. There are two things that must be considered when bringing up the discussion of IAT on engine warm-up time. 

1. The engine bay won't warm up until the engine does. Sure, the exhaust creates heat, but how long does it take for the engine bay to actually heat up so that the intake, which is behind the upper sealed grille and pulls air through the hood latch opening also pulls warm air?
2. During the winter, not only are you pulling colder air, but you are starting the engine from a colder temperature. Thus, "warm up" times are not an apples to apples comparison between winter and the rest of the seasons. As I noted earlier, it is a function of how much energy is required to heat the engine block. Say you need to heat up an engine from 60 degrees to 200 degrees during the spring. Then say during the winter, you need to heat it up from 10 degrees to 200 degrees. Consider that during the winter, you have an additional 50 degrees to heat up. 

We've had this discussion before, but I can assure you, and other gearheads will back me up on this, that the location of the piping coming across the radiator does not in fact have any effect on the temperature of that air intake charge. This is due to the velocity of air moving through the plumbing. I can further reinforce this by pointing to the intercooler, which has a *vastly *larger surface area in addition to a material (aluminum) that has a significantly higher thermal transfer coefficient. If it was GM's intention to cool the air going through the intake, they would have added an intercooler or at least use aluminum ducts. The location of the intake ducts is placed there due to a lack of options. 

So we come to the question, why factory air inlet where it is? While I don't claim to be an engineer or know what went through their heads when they designed this intake, I can tell you what I believe to be the most plausible reasons. 

1. Noise reduction. This is a clear benefit and the reason why the resonator box exists. However, there are only so many locations for that bulky resonator box and given the wavelengths we're working with here, a sizable resonator was needed. Thus, the resonator was placed inside the fender well. However, if we were to suck air directly from the resonator box and there was a simple outlet, we'd run into a bigger issue:
2. Hydrolock. The location of the intake is in fact one of the highest points in the engine bay. In addition, it is sealed off from the front of the car and pulls air strictly from the engine bay. Requiring the air to be pulled from this location improves hydrolock resistance with this engine. 
3. Dirt. Sure, GM could have placed the air intake elsewhere or routed it back up to in a "U" shape, but GM needed to reduce noise, reduce the risk of hydrolock, AND reduce the speed at which the filter becomes dirty. The location of the factory inlet is more separated from the outside of the car than any other location in the engine bay. 

The above reasons are, I believe, the only reason why the inlet is placed where it is from the factory. 

Given what I've discussed so far, it is my firm believe that 99.99+ percent of the energy that is used to heat an engine block comes from the fuel that is burned and the friction of the engine's internal components. Compared to these heat sources, any expected changes in air intake temperature, will, when considering the existence of a mandatory intercooler and turbo, be laughably insignificant with regard to winter start-up times and fuel economy.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

spacedout said:


> So here is the real question has anyone tested the intake air temperature in the winter with the factory intake? With a fully warmed up car is it higher than outside temperatures? I suspect it is.


With a 1.8L, I suspect you will see a difference in temperature. With the 1.4L Turbo, consider the fact that you are going through a rather large intercooler with a quite massive surface area, which is also in very close proximity to your radiator. As a result, the difference will be insignificant. I could rather confidently say that at best, you will see a 1 degree difference at the manifold for every 10 degrees difference in outside temperature. 

As a side note, it is worth considering that the intake temperature at the filter does affect the efficiency of the turbo, which may have a minor effect on heat soak during the summer.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> With a 1.8L, I suspect you will see a difference in temperature. With the 1.4L Turbo, consider the fact that you are going through a rather large intercooler with a quite massive surface area, which is also in very close proximity to your radiator. As a result, the difference will be insignificant.


I forgot the **** intercooler.... geez. Basically this thread should read, Want a hot air intake for winter? For slightly faster warm up place cardboard in front of grill. 



XtremeRevolution said:


> I could rather confidently say that at best, you will see a 1 degree difference at the manifold for every 10 degrees difference in outside temperature.


This could be tested but your correct there is no point, if there was a real difference in warm up times between cold air, short ram or factory it would be an insignificant amount of time because the turbo/intercooler & its heat/cool would cancel out any differences.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Now I'm sure someone on here knows, is there 1 or two intake air temperature sensors on the cruze? 

I always just assumed there was two (1 after the air cleaner/before the turbo and the 2nd after the intercooler/before the throttle body), but after talking about all this it seems only one would be needed(after the intercooler/before the throttle body).


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Now I'm sure someone on here knows, is there 1 or two intake air temperature sensors on the cruze?
> 
> I always just assumed there was two (1 after the air cleaner/before the turbo and the 2nd after the intercooler/before the throttle body), but after talking about all this it seems only one would be needed(after the intercooler/before the throttle body).


Two. One at the IAT sensor after the intercooler, and the other at the MAF sensor. I don't know if this is the case with the 1.8, but it is with the 1.4T.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Good info XR. I was hinting at this on Page 1:



Blue Angel said:


> Warm air atomizes fuel better than cold air, but any effort at a warm air intake for winter will probably be foiled by the intercooler cooling it off. The Eco's shutters block the intercooler when closed, but there's still a large mass of aluminum in the intercooler that will suck heat out of the intake air.


Unless you are prepared to bypass the intercooler, a Warm Air Intake and any heat from the turbo will be effectively be removed by the intercooler to within a few degrees of ambient temperature, especially while cruising when air flow is relatively low.

A WAI for the sake of better winter fuel economy and quicker winter warm-up on a turbocharged/intercooled engine would become a fairly complicated system, not only requiring the WAI plumbing but also a switchable bypass for the intercooler. Since the increased mileage would not add significantly to the EPA reported mileage of the car, car companies are not implementing these systems even on Naturally Aspirated engines. Maybe someday the EPA will have a stringent enough test regimen that it would show up and be visible/significant to the customer, but that time is not now.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

As XR said, the only real purpose of the tubing the way it is just for noise reduction (and to avoid sucking in water). The turbo/intercooler heat/cool the air so much that any few-degree temp difference is negligble. If you put on a SRI that is drawing in 200F air from the engine compartment, sure, that'll hurt performance in the summer and MAYBE help in the winter, but you'd see more gains/loss with the 1.8L.

My Volvo had a factory cold-air intake that took in the air from the same-ish location as the Cruze, but it went straight to the filter box. It sounded like an 18-wheeler when you hit the gas hard. Personally, I loved the noise, but in later years, they masked the turbo and exhaust noise by a ton.

In comparison, even with the duct removed, the Cruze is super quiet. You hear a little bit of turbo spool with the windows down, and then a bit of induction noise under heavy throttle. They made this car to drive and sound like there isn't even a turbo there - because most Americans don't know what to think of them. Turbos, as far as most are concerned, are something for going fast.


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Two. One at the IAT sensor after the intercooler, and the other at the MAF sensor. I don't know if this is the case with the 1.8, but it is with the 1.4T.


It still matters how warm or cold the intake temp is because if its hot then your 1at temp is way hot, if intake air is cool then your 1at temp is a lot cooler, it help warm up the air after going through the turbo but it tech cools it down as well so the hotter your air going in the more heat your turbo is seeing which isn't really a good thing, either way you put it you don't want t heat up the air before it goes into your intake or where ever that guy was talking about, maybe if you live in Alaska, and if the res delete does not let more cool air in and your still running stock air box OP I would say your fine and will see less restricts air flow.. Now I will be doing winter tests with stock and Sri intake temps, and heck I will see what the res delete does for this as well


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

That is another idea do your own experiments , my hat goes off to you for that insightful conclusion ! And there is a post with these ideas explored and tested ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. I recall within the past 2 years . 2 gentlemen built an enclosure , installed the enclosure and tested it .. fuel economy threads some where .... if this helps than good 
Be cool stay cozy best wishes just for you ,,CW,,


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> That is another idea do your own experiments , my hat goes off to you for that insightful conclusion ! And there is a post with these ideas explored and tested ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. I recall within the past 2 years . 2 gentlemen built an enclosure , installed the enclosure and tested it .. fuel economy threads some where .... if this helps than good
> Be cool stay cozy best wishes just for you ,,CW,,


Thanks tips that just proves one of my post earlier about you lol


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Tommy Reed Hacking the chevy cruze LS Computer System .
Tommy Reed 
Test Drive From Pa. To MI Hot Air .
Youtube ,,,,,, If you look , Research on your own you are able to learn a lot of interesting things .. All by yourself . Stop looking for hand outs all of the time ............................................................


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

brian v said:


> Tommy Reed Hacking the chevy cruze LS Computer System .
> Tommy Reed
> Test Drive From Pa. To MI Hot Air .
> Youtube ,,,,,, If you look , Research on your own you are able to learn a lot of interesting things .. All by yourself . Stop looking for hand outs all of the time ............................................................


NA =/= FI


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

J = doing too many drugs period !
Did you at least look up Tommy Reed ?


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> J = doing too many drugs period !
> Did you at least look up Tommy Reed ?


http://youtu.be/YnyhCsUx2GA


Hahahaha if you think that's good for your car run it, I've seen that good of mileage with a 1.8 not doing that stupid idea, that motor won't last long, but hey if it saves you 40 bucks a year why not blow up your motor ever two... Cost effective I would say... ???

And I would like too see that setup ran an the 1.4l can you say POP


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> J = doing too many drugs period !
> Did you at least look up Tommy Reed ?


And another thing it was prolly higher octane fuel and maybe no ethanol in it as well just because after his driving it shows him filling back up with reg, but who is to say he didn't fill up with 94 before the drive or to say he didn't drive 50 km then fill it back up and not reset his tracker? Don't believe everything on YouTube, you ever herd of 2012 not the movie... YouTube started the 2012 end of world B.S. but anyways I will go make a movie of putting sugar in my gas tank and showing the better fuel mileage I get because of all the extra Carbs being burned haha


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Another same **** another day at the cyclopsic wrath home . Stop looking for sympathy Dog !

If you remain closed minded in all things , This tells me you are unwilling to learn and are only interested in insulting others . To accomplish difficult goals in life you must be willing to fail more than twice in your life time , So choose your path wisely !


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Tomorrow, going to install Splitfire sparks plugs, one of those TB plates with a prop on the inside, and a super powerful cow magnet in my Cruze. So I can leave all you guys in the dust.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Now that would be a sight to see ....


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> Another same **** another day at the cyclopsic wrath home . Stop looking for sympathy Dog !
> 
> If you remain closed minded in all things , This tells me you are unwilling to learn and are only interested in insulting others . To accomplish difficult goals in life you must be willing to fail more than twice in your life time , So choose your path wisely !


I'm not trying to insult anyone, but just stating you shouldn't believe everything you see... Lets see that car and how well it runs in a year I bet not to well at all haha.. Stop being so gullible with what you see without hard proof.. I'm all for trying new thing but not with something I know isn't going to work... I don't know why I'm even arguing with you about this. It's like competing in the special Olympics, even if you win your still a retard


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

How about we knock off the personal attacks. That's my final courtesy warning before I start handing out infractions. This goes toward all parties involved.

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## JAYbram223 (Feb 22, 2019)

So since I put a K&N filter on my 2016 Cruze... could that be why it drains heat when idling with cabin heat on full blast?


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

JAYbram223 said:


> So since I put a K&N filter on my 2016 Cruze... could that be why it drains heat when idling with cabin heat on full blast?


No, its because its a small highly efficient engine, and you are removing more heat than it is making. My 2nd generation does the same thing if its really cold out and idling.

Let this goofy thread die and go back to the bottom.


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