# Down for the count



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

That sucks. Sorry to hear that. How deep was the water you went through?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

How deep?


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

Dang that really sucks, did you have the stock or an aftermarket intake?

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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

One reason I prefer a SRI than the filter down in the fender well where it's vulnerable to water.

That's a bummer Silver, keep us posted on what's going on. Best of luck to you!


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

It was anywhere between a foot and maybe 18 inches depending on which part we are talking about. Its funny actually i had my CAI on the car and the motor filled with water, however, the intake cone was bone dry. Still trying to figure this part out. My MAF and the inside of the tubing was wet, but the cone was dry.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

OnlyTaurus said:


> One reason I prefer a SRI than the filter down in the fender well where it's vulnerable to water.
> 
> That's a bummer Silver, keep us posted on what's going on. Best of luck to you!


If you're going through water deep enough to submerge the CAI's filter enough to force the engine to suck in enough water to hydrolock it, you have much bigger problems than your engine taking in water. 



silverls said:


> It was anywhere between a foot and maybe 18 inches depending on which part we are talking about. Its funny actually i had my CAI on the car and the motor filled with water, however, the intake cone was bone dry. Still trying to figure this part out. My MAF and the inside of the tubing was wet, but the cone was dry.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Definitely sounds like the water went in from elsewhere, though I can't figure it out off the top of my head. 

Don't cars have a type of sensor that detects when you've reached a certain water level of submersion? Are you sure the engine is hydrolocked? Pull the spark plugs and shine a small flashlight through the hole, or dip a stick in there to see if there's actually water. 

If the engine shut down before any damage could occur and there is water in the cylinders, you may be able to remove all of the plugs, crank the motor a few times to force the water out through the spark plug holes, then put them back in and try to start it.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If you're going through water deep enough to submerge the CAI's filter enough to force the engine to suck in enough water to hydrolock it, you have much bigger problems than your engine taking in water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very true on both posts. Second post I strongly agree with. I'll have to look into this, you may be right about the 'early detection' Xtreme.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

@extreme i am hoping this is the case. You can ask boats, the first thing i did after we pushed it to a spot at his place was disconnect the negative terminal to try and reset any sensors. I impacted some kind of dip in the road or something that caused the front undershield (where the bumper cover connects) to crack in half. So i was hoping that there might be some kind of impact sensor that had caused the motor to shutoff. Then i pulled the intake off. What i found was that the tubing and maf had water in it. Also there was a pool of water/fuel or oil of some kind in the throttle body. I took a t shirt that i had to try and soak up the water but after soaking the whole shirt, water was still re appearing in the throttle body. So after re connecting the batter i did not try to start it. Still dont understand how the tubing and MAF could be wet, and even the hydrashield, but not the cone.

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## mike1coolguy88 (Apr 7, 2012)

there is not water sensor and it is possible that the cone may feel dry


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

I've definitely driven through 12-18" of water without issue.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

silverls said:


> ... I impacted some kind of dip in the road or something that caused the front undershield (where the bumper cover connects) to crack in half. So i was hoping that there might be some kind of impact sensor that had caused the motor to shutoff.


I wonder if you cracked something else and that is what allowed water in.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

obermd said:


> I wonder if you cracked something else and that is what allowed water in.


That was my suspicion too. Started thinking about it for a while, and thought of intercooler tubing as being a potential cause. 

To suck enough air into the motor to actually hydrolock the motor, you have to literally submerge that filter. Sounds to me like it was more than just 1.5 feet of water depth.


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## mike1coolguy88 (Apr 7, 2012)

Beaker said:


> I've definitely driven through 12-18" of water without issue.


u most likely dont have a cai intake which is like a shop vac hose to the puddle lol


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Sucks badly. Interested on how the insurance handles it.


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> That was my suspicion too. Started thinking about it for a while, and thought of intercooler tubing as being a potential cause.
> 
> To suck enough air into the motor to actually hydrolock the motor, you have to literally submerge that filter. Sounds to me like it was more than just 1.5 feet of water depth.


I helped him push it, and trust me, my legs were only in about 1.5 feet of water, lol.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I can believe 18 inches of water can cause problems, especially if there is a crack in a low hanging tube or catch pan.. The oil pan only sits 10 inches or so above the ground.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Ouch! 

I'd try to yank the plugs and crank the engine a few times while your foot is mashing the gas to the floor to spit the water out. After that, change the oil to catch any water that's scoring the crank and rod bearings. It just might be salvageable. 

Reminder to self: no driving through deep water. Too many potential failure points on a 1.4T with the intercooler.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Well, that sucks. Hope it works out for you, one way or another.

Just curious. Have you had the splash shield recall done?


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

No intercooler piping. I have a 1.8

@mikethecoolguy, how could the filter still be dry when the rest is wet? Could you explain how that makes sense? Not being an ass. But it doesnt make any sense to me as to why it was dry. I would love to have some light shed on that.

Also. No cracks in oil pan or really anything else. At least not visible. Oil doesn't have water in it yet surprisingly 

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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Good sign that there is no visible water in the oil. It's also possible you damaged a seal.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

USAA came and got it today. So we will know soon enough

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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

USAA should take care of you. It would be interesting to know how the water got in. I really think you cracked something else when you broke the shield.


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

HOLY CRAP?! 

Me too! July 16, i went through a flooding and my car hydrolocked.. I should be getting it back today. I am literally NEVER going through a flood, i will do a U turn and get the **** out... Its been a mess, a headache to get my car back. It has taken forever... Sorry to hear what you are going throught i have been stuck with a Ford Edge, and i love it, but not so much the gas..


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## The Wolf Wagon (Mar 5, 2012)

Have either of you had the engine shield recall performed? Wonder if the part that gets hacked could have provided any extra protection.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The Wolf Wagon said:


> Have either of you had the engine shield recall performed? Wonder if the part that gets hacked could have provided any extra protection.


Doubtful. In deep water the water will simply flow up from the back of the shield. Also, OP stated he hit a hole in the road and cracked the shield.


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## zr1000a1 (Jan 25, 2012)

Two LS's hydrolocked. Both CAI. Is it something common to this engine or air intake/intake manifold/throttlebody or exhaust routing? I think water can actually get in through the exhaust when not running with open exhaust valves if you are stalled and submerged enough at the right angle. If trying to restart while submerged just right, possibly too. Back pressures, reversion, scavenging, it is not just a one way street on the exhaust side, especially with any overlap. As the piston starts going back down before exhaust valves are fully closed, that can suck water in. Of course at idle or low speed there is very little if any overlap. Not sure of the specific applications of these engines and it's vvt. Nor do I know of what affect crank/cam sensor interruptions or pcm protections or failures would have on the system before a stall or attempted restart. Was there any backfiring? I would really worry about electronics, sensors, and wiring, along with the damage of a hydrolocked engine. 

Just spitballing, please do not tear me apart because I might not be 100% technically correct. Be gentle!


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

I did not have my engine shield, i will be picking up my LS either today or tomorrow and i will make a new thread with pics to show how deep the flood was. Or lack of deepness.

Don't focus on me, focus on OP. I will explain the variables in mine, if any.


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## Billy Baldone (Jul 2, 2012)

I feel bad for you guys, but you are hydro locking your motors over a part that MAYBE adds 3-5 hp on a good day. I sure hope you put it back to stock before insurance looked at it.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

My recall was done but it wouldn't have had much of an effect due to that front shield getting cracked and allowing water in. Still waiting to hear from usaa.

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

zr1000a1 said:


> Two LS's hydrolocked. Both CAI. Is it something common to this engine or air intake/intake manifold/throttlebody or exhaust routing? I think water can actually get in through the exhaust when not running with open exhaust valves if you are stalled and submerged enough at the right angle. If trying to restart while submerged just right, possibly too. Back pressures, reversion, scavenging, it is not just a one way street on the exhaust side, especially with any overlap. As the piston starts going back down before exhaust valves are fully closed, that can suck water in. Of course at idle or low speed there is very little if any overlap. Not sure of the specific applications of these engines and it's vvt. Nor do I know of what affect crank/cam sensor interruptions or pcm protections or failures would have on the system before a stall or attempted restart. Was there any backfiring? I would really worry about electronics, sensors, and wiring, along with the damage of a hydrolocked engine.
> 
> Just spitballing, please do not tear me apart because I might not be 100% technically correct. Be gentle!


Ikermit can correct me if i am wrong but i believe our common variable is the injen intake setup as a CAI. Who knows, maybe if i had setup as a short ram i would still be driving. Still questionable seeing as my filter was dry. 

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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

silverls said:


> Ikermit can correct me if i am wrong but i believe our common variable is the injen intake setup as a CAI. Who knows, maybe if i had setup as a short ram i would still be driving. Still questionable seeing as my filter was dry.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


I had the CAI, if you had the SRI nothing would have happened. Did they show you the throttle body and inside the tubing of the intake?

They showed me mine and there was water in the CAI, throttle body had water, valve train and cracked bits inside the block . It even cracked the block. My filter was dry as well, but it was pretty evident it went in through there, i didn't argue. The dealer worked with the appraiser and didn't blame my CAI, and the appraiser clearly saw it. 

(sigh)


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## zr1000a1 (Jan 25, 2012)

Wow. I am sorry you guys have to go through this. The dry filter is what had me trying to figure out another possible scenario, but it does sound like it is the CAI. I hope everything works out okay. Good luck.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

iKermit said:


> I had the CAI, if you had the SRI nothing would have happened. Did they show you the throttle body and inside the tubing of the intake?
> 
> They showed me mine and there was water in the CAI, throttle body had water, valve train and cracked bits inside the block . It even cracked the block. My filter was dry as well, but it was pretty evident it went in through there, i didn't argue. The dealer worked with the appraiser and didn't blame my CAI, and the appraiser clearly saw it.
> 
> (sigh)


If you dont mind me asking how much did all the damage come to? 

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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

This is one reason I never installed a CAI, they usually suck air from a very low point in the car. I see you said the filter was dry, but did you take it off & notice if it weighed twice what it should? Allot of these filters will look dry even when they sucked up 5lb of water. 

My 2004 cavalier factory airbox sucked air from about 6inches off the ground. I always thought about adding a shortram intake so it at least sucked air from headlight/battery height. Thats one great thing about the cruze factory intake, it sucks air from the very top of grill/engine compartment so you would need to be in pretty deep water to suck in water.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

spacedout said:


> This is one reason I never installed a CAI, they usually suck air from a very low point in the car. I see you said the filter was dry, but did you take it off & notice if it weighed twice what it should? Allot of these filters will look dry even when they sucked up 5lb of water.
> 
> My 2004 cavalier factory airbox sucked air from about 6inches off the ground. I always thought about adding a shortram intake so it at least sucked air from headlight/battery height. Thats one great thing about the cruze factory intake, it sucks air from the very top of grill/engine compartment so you would need to be in pretty deep water to suck in water.


I beg to differ. That high intake point routes the air to a box with some rubber dust seals located in the left front fenderwell. I doubt the dust seals would keep out a significant amount of water. Maybe that's why the OEM airbox has a drain in it. Those of us with the 1.4 also need to think of the intercooler and its piping. Those are all located very low in the engine bay. Yeah, they're air-tight. That doesn't mean they're capable of plowing through water while remaining air-tight. One chunk of debris hits that intercooler, and we're hydrolocking too.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Thats a good point about the airbox, but like you said unlike a cone air filter at least if any water does get in the air box it should just drain out before being sucked into the engine. 

The intercooler is a tough one, guess thats a good reason to not try & forge any large flooded areas.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

spacedout said:


> This is one reason I never installed a CAI, they usually suck air from a very low point in the car. I see you said the filter was dry, but did you take it off & notice if it weighed twice what it should? Allot of these filters will look dry even when they sucked up 5lb of water.
> 
> My 2004 cavalier factory airbox sucked air from about 6inches off the ground. I always thought about adding a shortram intake so it at least sucked air from headlight/battery height. Thats one great thing about the cruze factory intake, it sucks air from the very top of grill/engine compartment so you would need to be in pretty deep water to suck in water.


It didnt seem heavy, but it wasnt looks. I squeezed it in multiple places and my hands never got wet nor did i see a drip

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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

silverls said:


> If you dont mind me asking how much did all the damage come to?
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Well they gave me a certified used engine, my car had 16k miles, they gave me one with 8k... Engine was $1,700
Labor was $1,200
Other? was $249

And now i am waiting for the estimate of the fuse block. So it will add onto the invoice


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

Bump fir update. TOTALED

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> Bump fir update. TOTALED
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


I'd like to know how they figured an engine hydrolock on a $17,000 car would cause the car to be totalled when, as noted above, a new-ish engine can be installed for just over $3k.


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## bartonmd (Jun 30, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'd like to know how they figured an engine hydrolock on a $17,000 car would cause the car to be totalled when, as noted above, a new-ish engine can be installed for just over $3k.


18" of water would surely have been into the interior from having sat there for any length of time, but even then, I can't see it being totalled... There isn't an ECM and fuse box in the floor of the interior, is there?

Mike


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

USAA would rather total a car than have it's title flagged as "flooded". Sounds like you got water into a number of interior body cavaties as well.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

obermd said:


> USAA would rather total a car than have it's title flagged as "flooded". Sounds like you got water into a number of interior body cavaties as well.


I see what you mean. 

So what did insurance offer you for the car?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

silverls said:


> I impacted some kind of dip in the road or something that caused the front undershield (where the bumper cover connects) to crack in half.


I wonder what else was broken when this happened. If it was the frame under the front of the car that would be grounds to "total" the car as well. Broken frames are nearly impossible to repair.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

No water that i could account for got inside. It only sat for about 5 mins before me and boats pushed it. Im very confused as to why it was totaled and also as to why they are only offering me 15,700 for it. But i have to see the estimate.

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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Look on the brightside - you don't have to worry about having your splash shield chopped up.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

obermd said:


> Look on the brightside - you don't have to worry about having your splash shield chopped up.


Had the recall done already, never noticed any difference over 2000miles and had basically let it leave my mind lol. Im gonna miss the car. Probably buy another.

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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

silverls said:


> Im gonna miss the car. Probably buy *another*.


...which: (a) Cruze _lover?_ or (b) _glutton_ for punishment?


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...which: (a) Cruze _lover?_ or (b) _glutton_ for punishment?


Cruze lover. Havnt had a single problem witg my cruze in 9months and almost 11000 miles. I get 30mpg combined on my daily commute (85% city) and i just love the car. I love driving it, the "Fisher Price My First Manual" is so easy to drive. I just love car and will buy another.

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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

If you can, get the ECO MT.


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## Christopher_2 (Jul 31, 2012)

What options did you have? Here is a place to look to see what they should be offering. You need to add or subtract you options.

2012 Chevrolet Cruze Sedan 4D LS Base Price, Chevrolet Cruze Dealer Cost & Chevrolet Cruze Prices w/ Chevrolet Cruze Trade In & Book Value | NADAguides | NADA Car Value Guides


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

obermd said:


> If you can, get the ECO MT.


+1 
For the money, you would love it, Mike.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Should have purchased a 50's VW Beetle or that new Fiat just advertised. According to their TV ads, they float!

Apparently the Cruze does not float! Should I question my dealer on this?

Accused of always saying they don't make things like they use too. One example was my 60's Gator boat trailer, had a tilt bed and an electric winch. Could do both a dry launch and load with it, only touching the water with the rear tandem axle.

None of these new boat trailers have that feature, have to float the dang things off with the towing vehicle rear wheels half submerged in water. And the trailer completely submerged. Plus you have to get your knees wet to launch or load it. Didn't have to do that with the Gator, had a plank on it, just walk out to connect of disconnect the bow line.

In this case, they don't make things like they use to.


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

I wish mine was totaled to be honest. Wouldve saved me more cash getting another car and done. Upgrade your Cruze, or run for the hills. Your move.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

iKermit said:


> I wish mine was totaled to be honest. Wouldve saved me more cash getting another car and done. Upgrade your Cruze, or run for the hills. Your move.


If i buy another cruze it will be another 1.8 ls MT. Nothing against the Ecos but i dont do a lot of highway driving so my 30mpg combined is fine. Also the 1.8s seem to have much less problems on this forum than.the 1.4 models

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> If i buy another cruze it will be another 1.8 ls MT. Nothing against the Ecos but i dont do a lot of highway driving so my 30mpg combined is fine. Also the 1.8s seem to have much less problems on this forum than.the 1.4 models
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


In all honestly, I don't see any problems that are 1.4-specific with the Cruze. The combined economy is also closer to 38-42mpg (mine is 39mpg lifetime with a 78% city split) if you're trying to drive for fuel economy. That, and a tune unleashes quite a bit of power should you want to. It is a couple grand more expensive though...


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

Yea that couple grand may do me in. Maybe a Used one. and i didnt nean that the 1.4 has more problems specifically, just that it seems more people with the 1.4 have problems. I know it sounds the same but maybe you can bear with my bad explanation. 

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## 2013Cruze (Aug 4, 2012)

If you could afford to I would wait and get a 2013 1LT Cruze.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> Yea that couple grand may do me in. Maybe a Used one. and i didnt nean that the 1.4 has more problems specifically, just that it seems more people with the 1.4 have problems. I know it sounds the same but maybe you can bear with my bad explanation.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


I understand what you mean. You also have to keep in mind that the ownership of 1.4L Cruzes is much higher than that of 1.8L Cruzes, so naturally you'll find more people with more problems. 

How long is your daily commute?


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Cruze on a jeep frame? Attach buoys and paddle tires?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Pontoons.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I understand what you mean. You also have to keep in mind that the ownership of 1.4L Cruzes is much higher than that of 1.8L Cruzes, so naturally you'll find more people with more problems.
> 
> How long is your daily commute?


7 miles.

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

boats4life said:


> Cruze on a jeep frame? Attach buoys and paddle tires?


Jerk. I wonder how much carmax wants for yours

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> 7 miles.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


That's not long enough for an Eco to make an appreciable difference.

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> That's not long enough for an Eco to make an appreciable difference.
> 
> Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Yea thats why i didnt bother to begin with. I may still look at an eco mt used. But id rather build a 1.8 if im gonna modify

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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Get the 1.4T... The difference is there no matter what... 1.4T seems as if it has more problems, because more people have it. And usually they get fixed, or they are crappy, useless problems like a little noise or something.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> Yea thats why i didnt bother to begin with. I may still look at an eco mt used. But id rather build a 1.8 if im gonna modify
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


If you plan on making a lot of power, don't buy a Cruze. Just being honest. If you plan on making a little power affordably, buy a 1.4T.

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If you plan on making a lot of power, don't buy a Cruze. Just being honest. If you plan on making a little power affordably, buy a 1.4T.
> 
> Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Im not planning to make crazy power out if a cruze lol. I would be happy with 200hp and tq at the wheels. But i think i would still rather use the 1.8

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> Im not planning to make crazy power out if a cruze lol. I would be happy with 200hp and tq at the wheels. But i think i would still rather use the 1.8
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Without a supercharger, a turbo, or very heavy head work with aftermarket cams, you aren't going to make 200hp and torque at the wheels, and that's going to be at least $3000 in. You can get pretty close to that for a fraction of the cost with the 1.4T.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Any word on what made USAA decide to "total" your car?


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

silverls said:


> Jerk. I wonder how much carmax wants for yours
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Probably about 17K. You should see if it's there still.

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Without a supercharger, a turbo, or very heavy head work with aftermarket cams, you aren't going to make 200hp and torque at the wheels, and that's going to be at least $3000 in. You can get pretty close to that for a fraction of the cost with the 1.4T.


I politely disagree, yes it will take some head work to do it, but that coupled with the right cams and up the compression a little, maybe say 10:1 and i should be there.


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Silverls, i did my estimates. Its cheaper the 1.4T route lol i am not longer considering but sometime ago i almost did pull the trigger on one. Skillz made me do all the estimates lol.. 

In all seriousness, remember labor rates also. Just get a 1.4T listen to us, no pressure.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> I politely disagree, yes it will take some head work to do it, but that coupled with the right cams and up the compression a little, maybe say 10:1 and i should be there.


You make it sound so easy. Have you ever done this on such a small motor? You want to go from 138 crank hp to 200 wheel hp and you think you'll do it for less than $3k? Do you want to know how much it cost me to shave 1 second off the 1/4 mile with an already supercharged 3.8L swapped into my 3200lb 95 Regal coupe?

You said "head work" as if all you're doing is smoothing casting imperfections and gasket matching the port openings. A head porting job will easily run you into the $1000 range. Why? Because it's more than just taking a dremel or a die grinder with sanding rolls to a cylinder head. It's flow matching each of the ports on a flow bench. It's smoothing out the combustion chamber to eliminate hot spots. It's knowing things like, don't round off the floor of a D-shaped exhaust port. It's a whole lot more than what anyone can do *effectively *on their own without the right tools, and the reason I know is because I've attempted it on a number of occasions, some more successfully than others. 

The cams will have to be custom made. A custom grind on a pair of cams will set you back another $400 with Comp Cams. What does this car make stock at the wheels? 120whp? you want to add 80whp, or a 66% power increase, you'll need to boost that RPM limit. Now you need new valve springs to prevent valve float. $120. 

The combustion chamber is designed specifically and will not be changed much, if at all. If you want a higher compression, you need new pistons, and you need to ask yourself whether or not they'll clear the valves. Assuming they do, you'll be back another $200. 

Whenever you increase airflow inside the head, it has to go somewhere, especially when you want to make more power. Now you need a header and exhaust. Add $500 assuming someone makes a widely available header for your car just for the header and exhaust, and another $150 for a high flow cat. If the header needs to be custom, factor in a significantly higher price. 

Tack on $300 for the tune, and our crude total comes out to $2670. 

We haven't yet addressed the intake manifold. My guess is that, similar to other GM 4-cyl cars, that intake manifold is rather restrictive and is probably tuned for velocity (low end torque), not flow (peak hp). Either get it ported, or have someone design you a new one. Don't get me started on that price. 

Keep in mind, that $2670 doesn't include things like a new head gasket, new manifold gaskets, new bearings when the pistons get installed, or the labor to do any of this, all of which will guarantee that you exceed $3000 and may come close to $4000. I'm sure there are a dozen things I haven't mentioned that will need to be considered as well. 

When all is said and done, you'll have a high-revving 1.8L 4-cyl with drivability compromises at lower RPMs due to the aggressive cams design, a significantly reduced fuel economy, and there's a good chance you still won't hit 200whp. 

Compare this to a 2011 Honda Civic Si, which requires 7,800 RPM to achieve 197hp *at the crank*, with a 2.0L engine, a fairly well designed intake and exhaust manifold, and an 11:1 compression ratio. You're trying to achieve _significantly _more power than that, with less displacement, a lower compression, and a significantly more complicated motor. The question everyone will ask you is: "why?"

Like I said, if you want to make a little power, go with the 1.4T. If you want to make a lot of power, don't buy a Cruze, or get yourself a project car.


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Wow Xtreme, strong calculations... OP do not take it in offense, we are trying to help you out ok? lol


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

iKermit said:


> Wow Xtreme, strong calculations... OP do not take it in offense, we are trying to help you out ok? lol


I'd like to resound this statement. Don't take offense to what I said; it was said informatively to give you a small idea of what's actually involved and help you achieve some satisfaction with whichever car you end up with.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Then you'd still be left with no torque at all from the 1.8.

And before you say you want to turbo the 1.8, 










It's way more complicated than that, and way easier just to start with a turbo in the first place. Power modifications to a turbo car, even with a small turbo like in the 1.4T, are EASY for a few extra HP.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Then you'd still be left with no torque at all from the 1.8.
> 
> And before you say you want to turbo the 1.8,
> 
> It's way more complicated than that, and way easier just to start with a turbo in the first place. Power modifications to a turbo car, even with a small turbo like in the 1.4T, are EASY for a few extra HP.


This. I used to ask my cousin when I was 15 how to make my 95 Regal (3.8L Series 1) faster. He said "don't worry about it."

When I was 18, I asked him again and he said "if you want to make your car faster, sell it." 

When I was 21, I asked him again and he said "buy a turbo car." After riding in his low-12 second WRX, I understood why.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

Thank you for the cost analysis extreme and yes i have done it before. Cost isnt much of a factor because i have until an extended warranty runs out (7 years) to compile money and parts. 

I took a honda b18 ls block (less than 140 hp stock no vtec) and made 214 whp and 198 wtq for about $1800. And it was still very drivable throughout the rpm range.

Understand that by the time i got to do any of this, if i don't just turbo it, it will be a few years from now. The aftermarket will have increased 100 fold and it will not be hard task you make it out to be. I have no plan to start tearing into this car right off the bat.

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

I also understand the point of buying a turbo'd car to begin with. I did this before. Got out of the honda scene and bought an EVO 9. I had it in the low 12s and It was a fun car. But it isn't what i want. 

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

I also know exactly what is involved in turbo'ing the 1.8 liter. Been there researched that still have the list if everything i would need ti do it right now. But again. Right now isnt a factor because by the time i look into actually doing anything, there will probably be an afternarket for all of it.

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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

So you want to turbo a 1.8L, yet you don't want to get a turbo'ed car already.


Aaaaaaannnd im out.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> I also know exactly what is involved in turbo'ing the 1.8 liter. Been there researched that still have the list if everything i would need ti do it right now. But again. Right now isnt a factor because by the time i look into actually doing anything, there will probably be an afternarket for all of it.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


What makes you think the 1.8L LUW will have any aftermarket at all? It was fitted in the Opel Astra, and is now fitted in only one Cruze trim (the cheapest) out of 5. I wouldn't bet on there being much aftermarket for this even 5-7 years down the line. 

Also, with regard to making power on the B18, it's not hard to see why. Short and large intake runners (intake manifold and head) respond very nicely to modifications that improve peak horsepower at higher RPMs. Longer and smaller intake runners (like those found on the 1.8L LUW) do not respond as well. Post a dyno chart of both motors stock and you'll see what I mean.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

Listen, to everyone,

I do not have plans to do anything to a 1.8 liter Cruze right now. I didn't have any plans for my 1.8 when i had it other than a tune to go with the CAI. Now, down the road, 6 or 7 years from now when it is paid off and possibly no longer my daily driver i might think of doing something to it. I have researched different outlets such as NA and Turbo because i like to. I love cars and i enjoy the research and gaining the knowledge. Some of you are acting like i have 10 grand to spend right now and plan to waste it. That is not the case one bit so please lighten up a little. 

@extreme Even if there is no market for the 1.8 liter, it is in the same family as the 1.6t and they can share many parts. 

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

iKermit said:


> So you want to turbo a 1.8L, yet you don't want to get a turbo'ed car already.
> 
> 
> Aaaaaaannnd im out.


What i don't want is to take a motor that without the stock turbo makes 80-90 hp (the 1.4) and try to pull 200+hp just throwing boost at it. It is a recipe for disaster. Been there, done that, wasted motors. 

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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

silverls said:


> What i don't want is to take a motor that without the stock turbo makes 80-90 hp (the 1.4) and try to pull 200+hp just throwing boost at it. It is a recipe for disaster. Been there, done that, wasted motors.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


So far only you and i have wasted motors from hydrolocking. True story


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> What i don't want is to take a motor that without the stock turbo makes 80-90 hp (the 1.4) and try to pull 200+hp just throwing boost at it. It is a recipe for disaster. Been there, done that, wasted motors.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


If you wasted motors, you were doing it wrong. 

Back in the days of Group B Rally (1980s), auto makers proved they could churn out numbers in excess of 600whp out of small 4-cyl turbocharged motors. Keep in mind, that was back in the '80s, where they didn't have computers and precision tuning the way we do. 

We have different regulations, but the point is that you can make ridiculous amounts of power with small displacement motors, so long as you keep heat down, prevent knock, and increase flow. 

I highly encourage you to watch this video if you haven't already. 
Too fast to race (HQ) (Group B Rally Cars) - YouTube

The aftermarket for the 1.4T will explode globally within the next several years. IMO, 300hp is right around the corner.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If you wasted motors, you were doing it wrong.
> 
> Back in the days of Group B Rally (1980s), auto makers proved they could churn out numbers in excess of 600whp out of small 4-cyl turbocharged motors. Keep in mind, that was back in the '80s, where they didn't have computers and precision tuning the way we do.
> 
> ...


Understandable, however i mean as. A daily driver. Not a race car that gets a motor rebuild after every race. Ill check the link after work. 

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

We pushed 400whp out of a del sol with the 1.5 single cam. It lasted about 3000 miles before it blew. Daily driven and boosted. Lol. 

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

silverls said:


> Understandable, however i mean as. A daily driver. Not a race car that gets a motor rebuild after every race. Ill check the link after work.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Oh, I know. Whenever people brag to me about how much power a car makes, I ask them "yeah, for how many miles?" 

Bismoto cranked 533whp out of the 1.5L Turbo in the Honda CR-Z
Mugen tuned the Honda CR-Z to make 197hp (probably at the crank) with the same motor

So long as you prevent detonation, I don't see any reason to believe that you wouldn't be able to produce over 200whp reliably in the Cruze's 1.4L Turbo motor.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Did you ever get an answer as to why USAA totaled your LS?


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

obermd said:


> Did you ever get an answer as to why USAA totaled your LS?


Nope

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