# Transmission slamming into drive



## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

So our 2014 diesel has been going into drive very hard lately. It would do it every once in a while over the past few years, but now it seems to slam every time you put it into drive. It also slams pretty hard when you let off the brake and the car goes back into drive from neutral. It doesn’t seem to do it when going into reverse. The car has 100k miles on it and had amsoil trans fluid put in around 60k miles. Is there something repairable that causes this? A solenoid or clutch pack or something? I’m fine with opening up the transmission to an extent, I would just like a bit of direction if anyone has any.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

This is a well documented problem with this Aisin transmission.

The condition worsens with ambient and transmission temperature. As temperatures drop, like during winter, the problem goes away.

There’s three steps to address this issue.

1) Complete flush of entire transmission and torque converter. This is costly because the fluid is expensive and about six drains and refills are required. This action almost never corrects the problem. But sometimes pushes it down the road.

2) Replace the valve body in the transmission. This seems to fix the problem in some cases. But not in all cases. And it is very expensive.

3) Replace the entire transmission with a new (not rebuilt) unit. This always fixes the problem. But it’s crazy expensive.

Those three steps are what TAC will instruct your dealership to do.

In my case, it required all three.

In the meantime, you can defeat this transmission behaviour by placing the gear selector into manual mode once you’ve brought the vehicle to a stop. When you release the brake and start rolling again, you return the gear selector back to automatic.

The other option is to only drive in the winter.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

This is the same problem we've had for years. Basically entirely a non-issue in winter. Seems to really like doing it after driving a good number of miles on the freeway, too (say, when you get off and come to a light after the offramp), which is somewhat bizarre. 

The manual mode trick seems to only like to work as long as it's left in manual _as_ you're almost to a stop. Otherwise, it'll shift into neutral and you'll run into the issue right when you switch into manual mode while stopped. At least, if that happens, you'll be stopped so it won't be as drastic as if it happens when you're applying the throttle.

What _I_ do anymore is just take my foot off the brake and see what the car does. If it's moving forward, I know we're in drive and am free to apply the throttle, but if it doesn't start creeping, I know it's not shifted back into drive so I don't apply the throttle, which lessens the shock a lot (except when on an reverse incline and the car starts rolling back like a manual). 

My wife's strategy is to ignore all that, push the pedal down harder, and get mad at the massive jolt she gets.  

If the trans lines ever decide they are leaking again, I'll just be doing the $5 fix, but plumbing them to a large external cooler with a fan in the hopes it keeps the fluid cooler, but overall, I'm waiting for this thing to neutral-slam itself one too many times at some point.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Tomko said:


> This is a well documented problem with this Aisin transmission.
> 
> The condition worsens with ambient and transmission temperature. As temperatures drop, like during winter, the problem goes away.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I think I might give it the “run her till she blows” treatment honestly. I’m guessing the valve body isn’t excessively terrible to get out and can probably be done through the oil pan correct? Depending on price I may give that a shot. It’s cheaper than a new car. The manual mode is a good idea. It’s my girl’s car so trying to teach her how to do this might be tricky lol


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MP81 said:


> This is the same problem we've had for years. Basically entirely a non-issue in winter. Seems to really like doing it after driving a good number of miles on the freeway, too (say, when you get off and come to a light after the offramp), which is somewhat bizarre.
> 
> The manual mode trick seems to only like to work as long as it's left in manual _as_ you're almost to a stop. Otherwise, it'll shift into neutral and you'll run into the issue right when you switch into manual mode while stopped. At least, if that happens, you'll be stopped so it won't be as drastic as if it happens when you're applying the throttle.
> 
> ...


Yeah this is my girl’s car and she does the exact same thing lol. Hammer down. I may look into doing the valve body but I’m sure the price may not be worth it. So I’m kinda in the same boat as you just waiting for her to call me one day saying it won’t move with a pile of metal bits and fluid under it. If you do the external cooler, let me know what happens. I don’t plan on getting rid of the car so it’s either gonna blow, get fixed, or just get left the way it is lol


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oh there'll be an update for sure if I go that route.

It really only started happening on ours after the trans cooler lines leaked and it ran low on fluid (to the point where it took _seconds_ to downshift at a WOT command). I changed the fluid to AMSOIL at that point (filling it back up) and replaced the lines a couple months later, but after that initial fluid change is when it started to really show the behavior, though not that often because it was winter.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> Thank you, I think I might give it the “run her till she blows” treatment honestly. I’m guessing the valve body isn’t excessively terrible to get out and can probably be done through the oil pan correct? Depending on price I may give that a shot. It’s cheaper than a new car. The manual mode is a good idea. It’s my girl’s car so trying to teach her how to do this might be tricky lol


Transmission is a sealed case with no pan, so only way to do the valve body is to completely uninstall the transmission first.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

I've been in the same situation as @MP81 and have been for probably the last 120k miles now, and I've made the same adjustments to my driving. 

I haven't had a chance to write anything up about this, but my transmission was getting to a really bad place early last summer with consistently slamming into gear when taking off from a stop and when downshifting from 5-4. It had done this before, and each time I do a drain/fill with the AMSOil Signature Fuel Efficient ATF, it would temporarily improve, but not completely. 

When I was doing my yearly drain/fill last summer, I had a bottle of LubeGard Platinum laying on the shelf, leftover from before my wife totalled the minivan. I know the oil purists will say that additives aren't helpful and/or that the AMSOil has everything you'd ever need, but I figured with the state it was in, the transmission wasn't long for this world anyway, so what could it hurt. So, when I did the drain/fill, when doing the level-setting procedure for the trans fluid, I added a 15oz bottle of LubeGard Platinum to the transmission instead of the 0.4 Liter top-off specified in the level-setting procedure. 

I noticed the usual slight improvement from the drain/fill at first. As the warmer months dwindled, the harshness never returned to its former level. This spring, it never returned at all, and I haven't had a single rough shift or takeoff, even when temperatures reached the upper 90s outside. I'm assuming something in the Lubegard Platinum worked into those two sticking solenoids and freed them up, but it's purely anecdotal at this point, and others' results may vary. For now, though, I'll be adding another 5 ounces or so of the LubeGard Platinum with each of my drain/fills to keep the ratios at their current levels that seem to be working.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I might have to try that on my next drain/refill, which I don't think I've done in a bit (I only checked the level of the fluid early last year - so that only added 0.5qt of new fluid due to the funky refill procedure). I did the initial drain and refill with AMSOIL at 70k back in Jan of 2018, and we're at probably around 117k miles now, so it's likely time for me to drain and refill again. This time I'll make sure to go drive it around and get it warm _before_ doing this, so I don't have to sit there for an hour waiting for the trans to never come up to temp to check the level.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> I might have to try that on my next drain/refill, which I don't think I've done in a bit (I only checked the level of the fluid early last year - so that only added 0.5qt of new fluid due to the funky refill procedure). I did the initial drain and refill with AMSOIL at 70k back in Jan of 2018, and we're at probably around 117k miles now, so it's likely time for me to drain and refill again. This time I'll make sure to go drive it around and get it warm _before_ doing this, so I don't have to sit there for an hour waiting for the trans to never come up to temp to check the level.


I'll be doing my next one whenever I get a couple days to tackle the list I have for minor repairs (things like end links and a coolant leak) and preventative maintenance (timing service, oil pickup seal, clean intake etc.) that I have lined up. Since I drive 25k-35k per year, I just do the fuel filter and trans drain/fill once a year, regardless of mileage, so that I can make sure I'm doing it in warm weather, and it doesn't come due in the middle of January.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, the couple times I've done trans fluid, I've gone to my buddy's house as he has a 2-poster in his back garage, since they've both been in winter time.

Fuel filter I don't mind so much, but trans fluid, yeah would rather not do that in winter. Maybe I'll do that here soon, especially if I can find that LubeGuard. If you happened to have good luck with it, it's likely we might too, as we also have a super jerky downshift on occasion.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

I might give that lube guard a shot, like you said it’s not like it’s gonna hurt anything at this point. Might get lucky.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Amazon.com: Lubegard 63016 Platinum Universal ATF Protectant, 15 oz. , Gray : Automotive


Buy Lubegard 63016 Platinum Universal ATF Protectant, 15 oz. , Gray: Engine & Oil - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

revjpeterson said:


> Amazon.com: Lubegard 63016 Platinum Universal ATF Protectant, 15 oz. , Gray : Automotive
> 
> 
> Buy Lubegard 63016 Platinum Universal ATF Protectant, 15 oz. , Gray: Engine & Oil - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> ...


What is the quantity used per change? Does it change based on how much fluid goes in?

This might be a good thing to add into my brother's '01 Century's 4T65-E, it has an occasional harsh upshift that's never been able to be fixed.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> What is the quantity used per change? Does it change based on how much fluid goes in?


I used a full 15 oz bottle when I did mine. I put it in instead of the 0.4L at the end of the level-setting procedure. I'm planning to keep the ratio of AMSOil to Lubegard the same, as long as it seems to be working, so I'll be adding something like a 10oz bottle or half of a 15oz bottle with each drain/fill after this.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oh, well that would be extremely convenient.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> This might be a good thing to add into my brother's '01 Century's 4T65-E, it has an occasional harsh upshift that's never been able to be fixed.


I discovered it when trying to save the 41TE transmission in our Chrysler Town & Country. I paired a 15 oz bottle of this with a tube of their Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fix (the shudder is a common, but separate, issue with the 41TE) when I was sure the transmission was on its way out around 150k, and made it to almost 220k, with one more fluid change around 185k, before she totaled it, and never had a problem again. 

So, there's a more than fair chance it might help the Century too. I wish I would have known about it when I had a string of 5 Luminas, Grand Prix, and an Olds Ciera, model years 1995-2003, with the 4T60 or 4T65, which all had that same harsh upshift problem, because I definitely would have given it a try.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'll have to drain out some of his trans fluid I think, since it's full. But that's only if he doesn't get something new soon, which I know he's looking to.


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## Barefeet (Jan 1, 2014)

MP81 said:


> I'll have to drain out some of his trans fluid I think, since it's full. But that's only if he doesn't get something new soon, which I know he's looking to.


My car started doing this around 50k miles and my service dept. refused to do anything about it since it did not "pull a code". I now have 143k miles and it seems to be getting worse. I do the manual shift to N when I stop and that works. I wonder if I will ever be able to do a trade in at a dealership or is the car junk.
I am not a mechanic, however, since this issue occurs when the brake pedal is pushed is there a way to fool the trans to not knowing and therefore not shifting to neutral.
I was hoping GM would come up with a software solution.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I don't think GM is "aware" (either legitimately, or the old "ignorance is bliss") of the issue...though I wonder if I could have Trifecta tune out the shift to neutral at a stop for mine. 

What I've found recently might actually change the thinking that this is entirely due to heat. So, this *does* only seem to happen when ambient temps are above a certain level (i.e. it only really happens in spring/summer/fall, if it's above ~70), and basically never happens in winter (I am speaking of the self-neutral-slam/seppuku here, not the other incidents of garbage behavior). 

However, having completed two long drives (one from MI to NC and back, and one from MI to IL and back - trips there and back not all in the same day, thankfully), but when the car spends a _long_ amount of time on the freeway, and then you get off, *that* is when it seems VERY prone to exhibiting this behavior. It's almost 100% - get off the freeway when you're near the destination or near home and BAM, whiplash. And it usually will do that two or three times. When we came back from IL it was very hot, but when we came back from NC it was like...73 out. 

So, I'm thinking that something with the ambient temp triggers this, but it seems entirely irrelevant of _trans fluid_ temp (which means better cooling - like a large external cooler with its own fan - will not likely help). I'm thinking that such long bouts of freeway lead to that solenoid seeing basically no use, and thus getting very "sticky", so when you get off the freeway and pull up to your first stop, it's almost guaranteed to look like the car rear-ended itself. And likely for the next 2 or 3 stops, until it "works itself loose".

Just a theory at this point, but that's the real-life evidence I've encountered that is starting to help me form it.

I was really hoping to get the trans fluid changed before we head up north in a week and a half (for over a week), but we'll see if I'll have the time. I need to order some of that Lubegard and give that a shot when I do the trans fluid change.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

What is interesting is that my transmission temp runs at 225° F. This is hot for a transmission and I suspect normal for this one. To me it makes sense to keep the fluid changed out often since it is taking a beating and to use a quality synthetic. I switched my 2014 over to AMSOIL ATL at 15k miles when I purchased it used and then again at 60k miles I did a drain and fill. Now at 100k miles I plan on doing at least 6 drain and fills to try and get as much fresh fluid in there as I can. I'm lucky, knock on wood that I don't have issues and hope to keep it from happening. 

But to me as hot as these run it is wise to change out the fluid often. Even more often if not using a quality synthetic.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oddly enough, our transmission issues (well, the neutral-self-slam) started only _after_ I replaced the OE transmission fluid with AMSOIL.


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## Barefeet (Jan 1, 2014)

MP81 said:


> I don't think GM is "aware" (either legitimately, or the old "ignorance is bliss") of the issue...though I wonder if I could have Trifecta tune out the shift to neutral at a stop for mine.
> 
> What I've found recently might actually change the thinking that this is entirely due to heat. So, this *does* only seem to happen when ambient temps are above a certain level (i.e. it only really happens in spring/summer/fall, if it's above ~70), and basically never happens in winter (I am speaking of the self-neutral-slam/seppuku here, not the other incidents of garbage behavior).
> 
> ...


MP81 I agree with your car's behavior mine is the same, except that it even does it in cold weather when the trans is warm from expressway or other long drives. I did notice some improvement after changing the fluid at 100k miles. I will definitely try the Lube Gard additive next time.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

MP81 said:


> Oddly enough, our transmission issues (well, the neutral-self-slam) started only _after_ I replaced the OE transmission fluid with AMSOIL.


Just curious, but at what mileage? I changed out the factory fluid at 15k to AMSOIL on the Cruze, then again at 50k and going to do it again here at 100k.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

BlueTopaz said:


> Just curious, but at what mileage? I changed out the factory fluid at 15k to AMSOIL on the Cruze, then again at 50k and going to do it again here at 100k.


I think 70-75k? And then a little more got replaced when I swapped the trans cooler lines shortly thereafter, but it started with the issues before replacing the cooler lines.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> What is the quantity used per change? Does it change based on how much fluid goes in?
> 
> This might be a good thing to add into my brother's '01 Century's 4T65-E, it has an occasional harsh upshift that's never been able to be fixed.





revjpeterson said:


> I used a full 15 oz bottle when I did mine. I put it in instead of the 0.4L at the end of the level-setting procedure. I'm planning to keep the ratio of AMSOil to Lubegard the same, as long as it seems to be working, so I'll be adding something like a 10oz bottle or half of a 15oz bottle with each drain/fill after this.


I did the fluid change yesterday, and I ended up just adding another full 15oz bottle. I had been getting some increased shift flare, especially in hot weather, and it didn't seem to be pulling as strongly under hard throttle as it used to, so I thought maybe increasing the ratio of LubeGard Platinum to AMSOil might help. So far, it has felt like more power getting to the wheels, and shifts are cleaner than before. We'll see if the increased concentration eliminates or further reduces the neutral slam or the 5-4 downshift compared to the previous concentration, which was already helping significantly. I figure I'm now at about 50% stronger concentration of LubeGard Platinum than I was at before yesterday's fluid change.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I bought the LubeGard, but haven't had a chance to get the fluid changed...really been meaning to, though.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> I bought the LubeGard, but haven't had a chance to get the fluid changed...really been meaning to, though.


I had the same "meaning to" problem all summer with my vehicles. Now that I'm running out of warm weather, it's giving me an extra kick in the pants to get on it. Between the 3 vehicles, I'm looking at taking 7-8 gallons of used fluids to recycling once I'm finished. Unfortunately, it looks like the oil pickup seal and intake cleaning on the Cruze are going to be spring jobs now.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MP81 said:


> I bought the LubeGard, but haven't had a chance to get the fluid changed...really been meaning to, though.





revjpeterson said:


> I had the same "meaning to" problem all summer with my vehicles. Now that I'm running out of warm weather, it's giving me an extra kick in the pants to get on it. Between the 3 vehicles, I'm looking at taking 7-8 gallons of used fluids to recycling once I'm finished. Unfortunately, it looks like the oil pickup seal and intake cleaning on the Cruze are going to be spring jobs now.


Either of you try it yet? I haven’t been back to this thread in a while and saw that it had a bunch more posts. I think regardless I’m going to pick up a bottle of that lubegard and try it.

Also do either of you have a link to that changing procedure that involved a certain top up amount? The only way I’ve done it is just draining/measuring the fluid and putting the same amount back in. I don’t like doing it that way considering the trans could be under/overfilled to begin with.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Nope - car has been at my buddy's shop ever since the end of September when my wife ran over a tree (yes, I said _over_).

So, overall, it's a weird procedure - you basically fill it up (so measuring what you took out is a good idea) and open the check plug until it drips at a rate of one drip per second. Then you reinstall the plug and add 0.5L/0.5qt and you're at the proper amount.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Nope - car has been at my buddy's shop ever since the end of September when my wife ran over a tree (yes, I said _over_).
> 
> So, overall, it's a weird procedure - you basically fill it up (so measuring what you took out is a good idea) and open the check plug until it drips at a rate of one drip per second. Then you reinstall the plug and add 0.5L/0.5qt and you're at the proper amount.


Does it have to be at an exact temp to do this? I know on my TDI there’s like a 5 degree window when the dsg oil level has to be checked.

And I know how you feel. She hit a “pothole” a few months back and destroyed the front right tire, wheel, strut assembly, lower control arm, axle, wheel bearing, fender and fender liner. I feel like a phone was involved in that one.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> Does it have to be at an exact temp to do this? I know on my TDI there’s like a 5 degree window when the dsg oil level has to be checked.
> 
> And I know how you feel. She hit a “pothole” a few months back and destroyed the front right tire, wheel, strut assembly, lower control arm, axle, wheel bearing, fender and fender liner. I feel like a phone was involved in that one.


Yeah, it's like a 10-15 degree range if I recall, but I'm not so sure it's _that_ picky. 

Yeah, I don't think she was on her phone - it was night and raining like an absolute monsoon, but unless it did truly fall down right in front of her, I'm not sure how she didn't notice half a willow across the road...especially since a gnarly piece was jammed into the A-pillar, so it definitely was sticking up, windshield-level, too. Oh well...


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Yeah, it's like a 10-15 degree range if I recall, but I'm not so sure it's _that_ picky.
> 
> Yeah, I don't think she was on her phone - it was night and raining like an absolute monsoon, but unless it did truly fall down right in front of her, I'm not sure how she didn't notice half a willow across the road...especially since a gnarly piece was jammed into the A-pillar, so it definitely was sticking up, windshield-level, too. Oh well...


Dang that’s pretty rough. Hopefully she was ok.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yup! Totally fine! Airbags didn't even go off since the car went up and over. The firefighters were absolutely blown away at how much of a tank the car is.

Car was totaled by the insurance company, but we bought it back - structurally it was basically entirely fine...just a lot of labor in the cosmetic work to fix it fully ran the bill up to the point where they had to total it.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Yup! Totally fine! Airbags didn't even go off since the car went up and over. The firefighters were absolutely blown away at how much of a tank the car is.
> 
> Car was totaled by the insurance company, but we bought it back - structurally it was basically entirely fine...just a lot of labor in the cosmetic work to fix it fully ran the bill up to the point where they had to total it.


Yeah body work and paint are crazy expensive these days. That’s wild it just drive over a whole tree like that lol. Hopefully it makes it back looking like new.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'll bet the excessive amount of underbody aero panels helped quite a bit!

Yup, hopefully that is the case! Will be nice to have it back once it is done - not sure if we're still waiting on one of the intercooler pipes or not.

This was the latest status of the vehicle, but that was 22 days ago, haha: Ugh...dammit.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> Either of you try it yet? I haven’t been back to this thread in a while and saw that it had a bunch more posts. I think regardless I’m going to pick up a bottle of that lubegard and try it.
> 
> Also do either of you have a link to that changing procedure that involved a certain top up amount? The only way I’ve done it is just draining/measuring the fluid and putting the same amount back in. I don’t like doing it that way considering the trans could be under/overfilled to begin with.





justin13703 said:


> Does it have to be at an exact temp to do this? I know on my TDI there’s like a 5 degree window when the dsg oil level has to be checked.


I did my the second change with the LubeGard Platinum a couple months ago. I ran a full 30k miles with the 15oz of Lubegard Platinum in the transmission. Some of the harshness started to return after about 20k, so when I did the fluid change in September, I increased the concentration by adding another 15oz (meaning there is probably 22-23oz total in the transmission with what I lost in the drain/fill. It is now better than when I was running with 15oz in the transmission. From this point, I will probably not increase the concentration, and just add a 10oz of LubeGard Platinum with each drain/fill going forward to maintain the current concentration. 

The temperature for setting the fluid level is 70-80 Celsius. I've seen specs for the top off after setting the level listing either 0.4 or 0.5L. Over the 5 drain/fills I've done on mine, I've increased as high as 0.6L, and it seems to have helped out some of the weird behaviors (4/5 downshift, stop-neutral re-engagement), but it definitely hasn't hurt anything.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

revjpeterson said:


> I did my the second change with the LubeGard Platinum a couple months ago. I ran a full 30k miles with the 15oz of Lubegard Platinum in the transmission. Some of the harshness started to return after about 20k, so when I did the fluid change in September, I increased the concentration by adding another 15oz (meaning there is probably 22-23oz total in the transmission with what I lost in the drain/fill. It is now better than when I was running with 15oz in the transmission. From this point, I will probably not increase the concentration, and just add a 10oz of LubeGard Platinum with each drain/fill going forward to maintain the current concentration.
> 
> The temperature for setting the fluid level is 70-80 Celsius. I've seen specs for the top off after setting the level listing either 0.4 or 0.5L. Over the 5 drain/fills I've done on mine, I've increased as high as 0.6L, and it seems to have helped out some of the weird behaviors (4/5 downshift, stop-neutral re-engagement), but it definitely hasn't hurt anything.


That’s good that there has been an improvement. I’m definitely gonna try it when I do the trans fluid next. I’m sure it won’t hurt. I’ll grab a scan tool when I do it and set the full level like that.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MP81 said:


> I'll bet the excessive amount of underbody aero panels helped quite a bit!
> 
> Yup, hopefully that is the case! Will be nice to have it back once it is done - not sure if we're still waiting on one of the intercooler pipes or not.
> 
> This was the latest status of the vehicle, but that was 22 days ago, haha: Ugh...dammit.


Man I’ve been slacking keeping up with posts on here lol. Hopefully you’ve got the car back by now. And yeah, those underbody panels can be quite the pain in the ass when you need to work on something


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Nope, not yet - close though. Talked with my buddy on the plan for the trans fluid - should have just enough fluid to do a drain and refill instead of just topping off what came out when the trans lines were disconnected from the radiator, since I had planned to do that prior to the incident anyway.


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