# Copper spray on head gasket anybody ever used it?



## Ravenv12 (Jan 28, 2021)

When I was looking on zzp website I seen they had copper spray and they recommend using it on head gaskets has anybody ever used it and if so do you recommend it?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I didn't use it on mine. I feel that's it's unnecessary with modern Multiple Layer Steel head gaskets.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Back when I was wrenching.

I don't know about today's gaskets.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I didn't use it on mine. I feel that's it's unnecessary with modern Multiple Layer Steel head gaskets.


I would be in agreement - MLS gaskets are pretty baller, and don't require any kind of extra sprays.


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

Ravenv12 said:


> When I was looking on zzp website I seen they had copper spray and they recommend using it on head gaskets has anybody ever used it and if so do you recommend it?


That is just something else that can be displaced or pushed out. No, don't use anything with head gaskets except a clean, dry, properly surfaced head and deck.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

ForgedCrank said:


> That is just something else that can be displaced or pushed out. No, don't use anything with head gaskets except a clean, dry, properly surfaced head and deck.


You let it dry first.


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

snowwy66 said:


> You let it dry first.


doesn't matter, it's still an unbound layer of mush and it has no reason to be there other than to add a failure point that shouldn't exist. you should never use sealants on a head gasket.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

ForgedCrank said:


> doesn't matter, it's still an unbound layer of mush and it has no reason to be there other than to add a failure point that shouldn't exist. you should never use sealants on a head gasket.


Sealants on gasket was quite common. And never acted as a failure point.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Sealants on gasket was quite common. And never acted as a failure point.


Seemed to mostly be used with cork gaskets. But on an MLS gasket, it would likely degrade the functionality.


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

MP81 said:


> Seemed to mostly be used with cork gaskets. But on an MLS gasket, it would likely degrade the functionality.


yea well I wasn't going to bother arguing anymore. If someone insists on using that on a head gasket, well, who am I to stop them. whatever happens, happens.


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## Ravenv12 (Jan 28, 2021)

ForgedCrank said:


> yea well I wasn't going to bother arguing anymore. If someone insists on using that on a head gasket, well, who am I to stop them. whatever happens, happens.



Thanks for the response yeah I probably won't use it the only reason I asked is because I seen zzp recommended using it so I wanted other people to chime in if they've had good success with using it on these head gaskets


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Seemed to mostly be used with cork gaskets. But on an MLS gasket, it would likely degrade the functionality.


As I stated above. 
It was used back in the day. 
Motors weren't turbo back then, though.

I don't know how gaskets are these days.

Things have changed in every aspect since then.


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

Ravenv12 said:


> Thanks for the response yeah I probably won't use it the only reason I asked is because I seen zzp recommended using it so I wanted other people to chime in if they've had good success with using it on these head gaskets


I would be highly skeptical. In my decades of doing this, I've never used it on a head gasket because it has always been a well known no-no. RTV has it's place, this just isn't one of them generally speaking.
In some very particular applications (blown and/or very high compression applications), we used solid copper head gaskets and those came with a coating on them from the mfg. I believe it was some sort of really thin film of glue, but I never asked. That's the only scenario I ever noted use of any coatings. 
I know nothing about "zzp", but if they are a reputable and long-standing manufacturer of head gaskets, I would follow their installation instructions. If they are just a reseller, then no... don't listen to them, follow the mfg instructions.
The real world tell us that almost all head gasket failures are a result of uneven clamping force, surface damage or imperfections, or over-pressure (beyond design limits). A FLAT deck and head, properly finished, de-greased and dry, then accurately torqued in proper sequence with proper bolts/studs are the keys to success here. If there are imperfections in flatness or the surface, RTV would certainly fill those in, but it's also RTV and can decouple from the surface and push out under load. 
It's good that you do your research, go with what the actual manufacturer tells you, not some chump like me.


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## tieulinhnhi (Dec 9, 2021)

You let it dry first


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

He didn't say rtv. He said spray.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

ForgedCrank said:


> you should never use sealants on a head gasket.


What do you think is between the layers of MLS gaskets?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> What do you think is between the layers of MLS gaskets?


I think (s)he meant using additional sealants? There isn't sealant everywhere on a head gasket, as you you probably already know.

For those who don't know, the sealants are the black areas on the head gasket in the picture below.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Back in the day. Gaskets weren't like that.^^


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Amazing what technology can do!


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Back in the day. Gaskets weren't like that.^^


That's because Back In The Day™ cars were terribly unreliable. That's why basically no one driving cars made in the prior 20 years (*offer not valid on Subarus) ever has head gasket issues when compared to prior decades.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> That's because Back In The Day™ cars were terribly unreliable. That's why basically no one driving cars made in the prior 20 years (*offer not valid on Subarus) ever has head gasket issues when compared to prior decades.


Back in the day cars were a lot more reliable then today. They also ran at normal operating temperatures. The only reason head gaskets blew was people running out of antifreeze for some type of leak. 

Studebakers, mustangs, model a's and what not are still on the road. Even cars from the 70s. With their original engines.

How long do you think today's cars will last?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> That's because Back In The Day™


You know you have to pay snowwy royalty fees for using that phrase, right...


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## RBalym (Oct 23, 2021)

ForgedCrank said:


> I would be highly skeptical. In my decades of doing this, I've never used it on a head gasket because it has always been a well known no-no. RTV has it's place, this just isn't one of them generally speaking.
> In some very particular applications (blown and/or very high compression applications), we used solid copper head gaskets and those came with a coating on them from the mfg. I believe it was some sort of really thin film of glue, but I never asked. That's the only scenario I ever noted use of any coatings.
> I know nothing about "zzp", but if they are a reputable and long-standing manufacturer of head gaskets, I would follow their installation instructions. If they are just a reseller, then no... don't listen to them, follow the mfg instructions.
> The real world tell us that almost all head gasket failures are a result of uneven clamping force, surface damage or imperfections, or over-pressure (beyond design limits). A FLAT deck and head, properly finished, de-greased and dry, then accurately torqued in proper sequence with proper bolts/studs are the keys to success here. If there are imperfections in flatness or the surface, RTV would certainly fill those in, but it's also RTV and can decouple from the surface and push out under load.
> It's good that you do your research, go with what the actual manufacturer tells you, not some chump like me.


Do you know what RTV stands for , The way you speaking about it NO you dont
It stand for ROOM TEMPERATURE VISCOSITY


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

RBalym said:


> Do you know what RTV stands for , The way you speaking about it NO you dont
> It stand for ROOM TEMPERATURE VISCOSITY


Technically,

It stands for Room Temperature Vulcanizing.

Just to clarify, that mean it "hardens" at room temperature.


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

I really don't care. I gave my advice that was based on quite a few years of hands-on experience. If you want to use RTV, peanut butter, or anything else on head gaskets, frankly, it's not my problem and I wish you good luck. I honestly hope it works for you. I was trying to give solid advice to someone with an honest question. I'm not here to be called dumb, or argue with you types.
So lighten up, Francis, and have fun with your room temperature viscosity.


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## RBalym (Oct 23, 2021)

JLL said:


> Technically,
> 
> It stands for Room Temperature Vulcanizing.
> 
> Just to clarify, that mean it "hardens" at room temperature.


It all depends on what he or she was trying to say about RTV , Can be a gel or liquid so it can be used both ways depending


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I didn't see anywhere in this thread that RTV was mentioned. 

And I know no one used it back in the day.

I though the conversation was copper spray. Which WAS used back in the day.


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## RBalym (Oct 23, 2021)

snowwy66 said:


> I didn't see anywhere in this thread that RTV was mentioned.
> 
> And I know no one used it back in the day.
> 
> I though the conversation was copper spray. Which WAS used back in the day.


You better go back and have a good look


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## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

You guys argue about the strangest things.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

RBalym said:


> You better go back and have a good look


One guy mentioned it out of the blue. 
The conversation was about spray. Not rtv.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I know we've been having a lively discussion about RTV but, it's starting to get out of hand.

I'm going to close this thread because it's going nowhere at this point.


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