# 45k need a new EGR. National back order.



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

They probably just need to be cleaned - that's right around the mileage interval I clean ours at.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> They probably just need to be cleaned - that's right around the mileage interval I clean ours at.


I asked the shop about cleaning it and I was told it’s a internal failure not carbon build up. Fingers crossed GM does some good will and covers the part and I just get stuck with labor.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hmm, I'm not so sure - it's a pretty simple part...


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Hmm, I'm not so sure - it's a pretty simple part...


Idk I’ll have to talk to them and see what exactly is the problem. I thought about clean and run.

from reading i found if the code is P0401 then a simple clean and reinstall should work. Rock auto has a delco EGR for 102 in case it’s on the electric side of the part.

Advisor says no codes and the valve is stuck open. GM declined to help due to the age of the car. So far in labor he says 580$ 4 hours.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

To replace the EGR valve??? Takes an hour or two to remove, clean and reinstall.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> To replace the EGR valve??? Takes an hour or two to remove, clean and reinstall.


Yah I don’t get why the job is 4 hours. Like does the GM labor book officially call for 4 hours? 1HR diagnosis and 1 to install and replace.

mid I worked at Chevy I could actually confirm it’s 4HR by GM or they are just making up the jobs hours.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

if you have the correct torx, its really simple to remove clean and install and check to see if works

wouldnt be the first time service dept would be wrong


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> if you have the correct torx, its really simple to remove clean and install and check to see if works
> 
> wouldnt be the first time service dept would be wrong


If they are wrong I don’t have to pay for a not fixed car. Cars already towed and at the shop, at this point I need my car back for work so a self repair won’t work. I’d love to know the official hours for the job.


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## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

Sadly not all shops are repair shops, way too many are part replacement shops.

A simple cleaning may be all it needs to get back on the road but if the shop does not know how or is willing to even try to clean it then . . . .


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Valpo Cruze said:


> Sadly not all shops are repair shops, way too many are part replacement shops.
> 
> A simple cleaning may be all it needs to get back on the road but if the shop does not know how or is willing to even try to clean it then . . . .


Well when it doesn’t cost them anything and brings up margins, I see why they default to replace vs repair.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

pandrad61 said:


> Yah I don’t get why the job is 4 hours. Like does the GM labor book officially call for 4 hours? 1HR diagnosis and 1 to install and replace.
> 
> mid I worked at Chevy I could actually confirm it’s 4HR by GM or they are just making up the jobs hours.


They'll charge 4 but it will take 1.

The idea of a tech getting 15 hours of pay for an 8 hour day means a lot of corners were cut.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The service manual has them removing bolts and what not to move the "exhaust pressure sensor pipes" out of the way...which isn't necessary at all with the correct tool as @boraz mentioned.

For EGR _valve_ replacement...0.8 hour + 0.0-1.0 hour allowable for diagnosis. Where they are getting four, I don't know.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> The service manual has them removing bolts and what not to move the "exhaust pressure sensor pipes" out of the way...which isn't necessary at all with the correct tool as @boraz mentioned.
> 
> For EGR _valve_ replacement...0.8 hour + 0.0-1.0 hour allowable for diagnosis. Where they are getting four, I don't know.


Is this official GM book? If so I’m gonna have some words with my advisor. So 1HR diag and 1 HR replace.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Is this official GM book? If so I’m gonna have some words with my advisor. So 1HR diag and 1 HR replace.


Per my sources, yes. Yes, that's correct. I don't know what they're thinking takes 4 hours, but it ain't _anything_ involving the EGR.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Per my sources, yes. Yes, that's correct. I don't know what they're thinking takes 4 hours, but it ain't _anything_ involving the EGR.


Thanks for the reply. I’m gonna have words why a .8 replace and 1HR diag is now 4HR.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I’m gonna have words why a .8 replace and 1HR diag is now 4HR.


Good deal - I'm curious as well. If they seem to think other things need to come off too in order to get that off, they do not.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BDCCruze said:


> The idea of a tech getting 15 hours of pay for an 8 hour day means a lot of corners were cut.


The tech will be paid for 8 hours but the dealership will bill 15 hours. That extra money isn't going to the tech.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Good deal - I'm curious as well. If they seem to think other things need to come off too in order to get that off, they do not.


Well I initialed on the box requesting a written estimate. So if they try to screw me id love the proof of where I signed to just do the whole job without authorization.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

The EGR valve can be restored by cleaning like 99% of the time. No need to order parts.

You can go to an art store and buy some graphite which you can sprinkle over it which I have had good success with. You can also mix it with mineral oil to make a paste suitable for 2000F+. Adding some of that would increase the lifetime substantially.

Also a poor man’s anti sieze.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> The tech will be paid for 8 hours but the dealership will bill 15 hours. That extra money isn't going to the tech.


I've ready plenty of times where techs are paid more hours than they work in a day. That's how they "make up" for days where they don't get a full 8 hours. And what incentive would a tech have for busting their ass faster than book if the dealer was going to keep it?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BDCCruze said:


> I've ready plenty of times where techs are paid more hours than they work in a day. That's how they "make up" for days where they don't get a full 8 hours. And what incentive would a tech have for busting their ass faster than book if the dealer was going to keep it?


I'd only be on board with that if they were flexing my hours and letting me leave on the slow days. If I'm still stuck there for 8 hours and they tell me "You are only paid for 4 today because that's all you worked, but we'll sub another 4 hours from a different day to top you off to 40 for the week."

I've already worked one job where my supervisor engaged in wage theft, shorting me on pay because "We didn't do any business the last 45 minutes of that day so you don't get paid." That's why I had to steal anything that wasn't nailed down from that job - to compensate myself for the wage theft.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> The EGR valve can be restored by cleaning like 99% of the time. No need to order parts.
> 
> You can go to an art store and buy some graphite which you can sprinkle over it which I have had good success with. You can also mix it with mineral oil to make a paste suitable for 2000F+. Adding some of that would increase the lifetime substantially.
> 
> Also a poor man’s anti sieze.


I’m going To be taking my original EGR back. I’ll get it cleaned and put it on the shelf for next time. It’s BS but I don’t have the time for a self repair. This time it will have to be a swap and done.

it’s very disappointing that they ar Jesuit tossing a part vs a simple clean but this is the truth of modern dealers.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I mean, if it's on a back order...how long is the wait?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I mean, if it's on a back order...how long is the wait?


So what they claimed was in back order I found on Rockauto,summit,Amazon in 5 min of searching with the pet #. I got one for 120 shipped and here in the 6th.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> I’m going To be taking my original EGR back. I’ll get it cleaned and put it on the shelf for next time. It’s BS but I don’t have the time for a self repair. This time it will have to be a swap and done.
> 
> it’s very disappointing that they ar Jesuit tossing a part vs a simple clean but this is the truth of modern dealers.



New parts VS repair is not only an auto/dealership issue. It is across most of segments of our society. In the appliance industry most times you end with a new appliance vs getting the 5 yr. old one fixed,


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

mkohan said:


> New parts VS repair is not only an auto/dealership issue. It is across most of segments of our society. In the appliance industry most times you end with a new appliance vs getting the 5 yr. old one fixed,


You’re not kidding. We are keeping our agitator old school washer as long as possible since the new low water ones suck. I’ve repaired it a few times and replaced the dog teeth 2X but still works and properly cleans a king size blanket.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I have been trying to fix our ~6 year old Keurig for the last five months (it broke the first week back to work after my 15 month "vacation") because I feel like it _is_ fixable...but it's been borderline impossible to diagnose, so I finally just bought a new one during the Black Friday sales last week. I'd still like to fix it, though.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I have been trying to fix our ~6 year old Keurig for the last five months (it broke the first week back to work after my 15 month "vacation") because I feel like it _is_ fixable...but it's been borderline impossible to diagnose, so I finally just bought a new one during the Black Friday sales last week. I'd still like to fix it, though.


I hate that modern appliances are so hard to fix. It makes the company more $$ and loads up the landfill.


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Am I the only one here who hasn't cleaned the EGR?? Probably cursed myself, but 172k now and it hasn't given me a problem... yet... lol


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> I hate that modern appliances are so hard to fix. It makes the company more $$ and loads up the landfill.


I'm not sure if it's all that hard to fix - but it's basically impossible to diagnose. It's _probably _the pump...but I don't know for sure. And I'm not swapping it if I don't know for sure. But most stuff isn't all that difficult to fix really...but boy is it expensive.



LulzT1 said:


> Am I the only one here who hasn't cleaned the EGR?? Probably cursed myself, but 172k now and it hasn't given me a problem... yet... lol


Oh yeah, better keep that to yourself - the diesel gods will now "fix" the glitch.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

LulzT1 said:


> Am I the only one here who hasn't cleaned the EGR?? Probably cursed myself, but 172k now and it hasn't given me a problem... yet... lol


I never touched it since new. I probably should have. I drive 90% city.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

LulzT1 said:


> Am I the only one here who hasn't cleaned the EGR?? Probably cursed myself, but 172k now and it hasn't given me a problem... yet... lol


I haven't touched mine either. Normally I'm a light-footed drive. After reading post back in 2015, someone wrote drive it like you stole it (I think it was "Diesel"). Since then, I drive it hard at times. not sure that it makes a difference but it has worked for me.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

LulzT1 said:


> Am I the only one here who hasn't cleaned the EGR?? Probably cursed myself, but 172k now and it hasn't given me a problem... yet... lol


Eight years four months, 98,000 on mine and the EGR has never been touched. But I used Shell V-Power Diesel exclusively.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Eight years four months, 98,000 on mine and the EGR has never been touched. But I used Shell V-Power Diesel exclusively.


In my area all the shell stations are crumbling and old. The few new ones are small and don’t sell diesel.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> I'd only be on board with that if they were flexing my hours and letting me leave on the slow days. If I'm still stuck there for 8 hours and they tell me "You are only paid for 4 today because that's all you worked, but we'll sub another 4 hours from a different day to top you off to 40 for the week."
> 
> I've already worked one job where my supervisor engaged in wage theft, shorting me on pay because "We didn't do any business the last 45 minutes of that day so you don't get paid." That's why I had to steal anything that wasn't nailed down from that job - to compensate myself for the wage theft.


So you worked at a dealer in the service department?

If so, please give us some insight on a few things.

Why do dealers just throw parts at cars when trying to fix things even if they don't know what the actual problem is?

What can customers do to avoid that?

Are tech's ever held liable for misdiagnosis?

Why don't they spend the time needed to get a true diagnosis instead of rushing to put on parts?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Tomko said:


> Eight years four months, 98,000 on mine and the EGR has never been touched. But I used Shell V-Power Diesel exclusively.


Hah, Shell stations near me specifically label the Diesel fuel as a non-Shell product.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BDCCruze said:


> So you worked at a dealer in the service department?
> 
> If so, please give us some insight on a few things.
> 
> ...


Oh, you misinterpreted my flippant comment to think I worked as a dealership tech. I do not.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> So you worked at a dealer in the service department?
> 
> If so, please give us some insight on a few things.
> 
> ...


they follow the procedure

stray from procedure, risk not getting hours authorized.

we had a field mechanic from the dealer we bought our trucks from....everything was warranty so didnt care how long/what he did to fix the trucks

thru experience, he found ways to cut jobs hours by a 1/3rd or half....he got paid full rate, we got the trucks up and running quicker, errybody wins

hed drive to our minesite 6 hours, work 24hrs straight, sleep 4 or 5 (still being paid cuz he'd be ahead on his book hours), we'd feed him and let him stay at our place ( i was foreman and had spare bedroom in my work apartment) and hed work more until errything was fixed then drive home

example, the official procedure to work on the fan clutch was to remove the rad....theres no room to remove it otherwise, he found a way to loosen the rad and bend it out of the way JUST enough, saved HOURS

same with 97-01 cherokee heater core, gotta remove whole dash, both seats, steering wheel, etc....like 8hrs job

some guy on the internet found a way to ratchet strap the one side of the dash just far enough to wiggle the heater core out, saves like 4hrs


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BDCCruze said:


> Why do dealers just throw parts at cars when trying to fix things even if they don't know what the actual problem is?


Lots of modern vehicle troubleshooting is an approach that uses a flowchart. It tells technicians "Do step 1, check; do step 2, check; etc." The people that design the vehicle anticipate that there are some complex or difficult-to-diagnose problems that are often easier to solve by replacing a part. Time is money, especially if the customer is paying (not warranty coverage). If warranty coverage, time is also money to the manufacturer.

As an example, the slave cylinder was failing on my manual transmission. Due to a long story, we ended up in small claims court where I sued GM to recover some money spent when they didn't fix my car the first time. I asked the technician to explain his troubleshooting and his testimony was to do a couple checks and he couldn't figure out what the problem was, but at that point the instructions in some flowchart or upon consultation with GM technical was to replace the slave cylinder. I asked if he discovered what caused the failure or if he knew for certain it was the failing part (it obviously was) and he said he didn't know - the instructions were check a couple things and then just replace that part because enough time had been spent and it wasn't worth additional time to track down a problem when the ultimate fix is to just replace the part.



> Are tech's ever held liable for misdiagnosis?


I'm not sure this is a serious question!

I don't know the answer to that. When I walked in to the dealership to get my car fixed, I told them there were two problems that pointed to needing a new clutch slave cylinder. They insisted they couldn't do that big fix that would be covered by warranty until they did something else that cost me $500 out-of-pocket. Right on the paperwork from the service department it says that there is no warranty or guarantee provided with any service, so when the problem was there 14 miles later there was nothing to do with the dealership. I told them I wanted a refund of the $500 and they wouldn't give it, and GM wouldn't cover it for an obvious problem.



> Why don't they spend the time needed to get a true diagnosis instead of rushing to put on parts?


A lot of the time a true diagnosis won't matter. If the fix is "replace X or Y or Z part," finding out the exact cause doesn't do anything if just replacing the part solves the problem. Time is money. If replacing the part is a fix and it saves diagnosis time, that's sometimes the better route.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

When a technician doesn't do his due diligence and just replaces a part that doesn't "fix" the problem then ultimately he and that shop ends up with a bad reputation and it seems most dealership repair centers have this reputation. Hence "stealership".

Sadly the poor sap ultimately pays for parts and labor for the original lack of competence and ends up paying more for whatever the issue really is.

Case in point: a family member paid for a fuel pump module that was reported to be bad and it was replaced and actually worked for a period of time before the truck wouldn't start again. Took it back and was told the fuel pump was bad and he paid for a fuel pump and it actually ran again for awhile before it wouldn't start and it just so happened it was in my driveway.

I did some very basic troubleshooting and discovered corroded wires in the harness connector going to the fuel pump module. I used some deoxit and some small brushes and cleaned up the harness as best as I could. Put some dielectric grease on it and it has been at least two years now no issues.

So sadly my nephew paid for two new parts and labor that "fixed" the problem after throwing parts at it.

Yeah right. Shoddy work is shoddy work. Any tech worth his while will do the job right and throwing parts at it is wrong.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I don't care of dealers want to throw parts at cars if it's under warranty because that's between them and GM. What I don't like is when they want to do it at the owners expense. I got burned by this ONE TIME and I learned my lesson. About 2 years later I was in a similar situation, I said no to 'testing' and saved myself around $400 when later it was found the tech was wrong. Between my and my lady we are around 50% when it comes to taking cars to dealerships and having them correctly diagnosed and repaired for major type repairs. That is a horrible percentage.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

15cruzediesel said:


> When a technician doesn't do his due diligence and just replaces a part that doesn't "fix" the problem then ultimately he and that shop ends up with a bad reputation and it seems most dealership repair centers have this reputation. Hence "stealership".
> 
> Sadly the poor sap ultimately pays for parts and labor for the original lack of competence and ends up paying more for whatever the issue really is.
> 
> ...


And this is exactly my point. You can check fuel pressure to verify the out put is correct, or bench test it worst case. If the parts still show good, why are they so quick to want to start bolting on parts without caring if it's the correct diagnosis? And if something is failing, it seems like basic common sense to check to make sure the wiring powering it is correct. This is 100% the technicians fault and he still gets paid and is no worse for wear.

In the example I gave in my post above this, I straight up asked the guy "Do you guarantee this will fix it" and they said no because they don't know what's wrong but they want to test a part. I asked if the part they want to replace was checked to see if it has failed and they said yes but it was not failing. Then why do you want to replace it?

Point is, even when they do test to see it's not failing and confirm it's not they still want to put the part on. Best way to resolve this is to ask questions IMO. I feel bad for people who don't know any better.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

BDCCruze said:


> And this is exactly my point. You can check fuel pressure to verify the out put is correct, or bench test it worst case. If the parts still show good, why are they so quick to want to start bolting on parts without caring if it's the correct diagnosis? And if something is failing, it seems like basic common sense to check to make sure the wiring powering it is correct. This is 100% the technicians fault and he still gets paid and is no worse for wear.
> 
> In the example I gave in my post above this, I straight up asked the guy "Do you guarantee this will fix it" and they said no because they don't know what's wrong but they want to test a part. I asked if the part they want to replace was checked to see if it has failed and they said yes but it was not failing. Then why do you want to replace it?
> 
> Point is, even when they do test to see it's not failing and confirm it's not they still want to put the part on. Best way to resolve this is to ask questions IMO. I feel bad for people who don't know any better.


I feel bad for people also.

Ignorance is bliss so they say....


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Well update. Got the labor down to 2HR for a total of 311 out the door. The car runs great and normal, I’m gonna wait a week or so before I drop in the trifecta tune.

mkt old part is caked in soot/ carbon. Tech didn’t even bother trying to clean it. I was told he did. Think it’s time for a new shop and advisor. I’m guessing any big diesel truck shop can work on it so that’s where I’ll have to go next time.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

pandrad61 said:


> Well update. Got the labor down to 2HR for a total of 311 out the door. The car runs great and normal, I’m gonna wait a week or so before I drop in the trifecta tune.
> 
> mkt old part is caked in soot/ carbon. Tech didn’t even bother trying to clean it. I was told he did. Think it’s time for a new shop and advisor. I’m guessing any big diesel truck shop can work on it so that’s where I’ll have to go next time.


You did good. I mean shoot you obtained the backordered part and negotiated a fair price for you to pay and you got your car back.

Sadly 99% of the people out there would still be waiting for the part to show up and eventually paying waaaaay too much.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm glad you got the labor down to right around what GM calls out for it!

And yeah...you'd know if he tried.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I'm glad you got the labor down to right around what GM calls out for it!
> 
> And yeah...you'd know if he tried.
> 
> ...


Hey that’s my part, how’s you get it lol. But yah clearly they didn’t even try to clean it. Now it seems I’ll have to clean the throttle plate-EGR and intake side of things more frequently to prevent this.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yup, you just got into the "so dirty it's stuck". We drive mostly city, and about 40-45k miles seems to be a good interval for ours, but I'll bet idle time factors into that as well, along with oil, fuel, etc.

It's not particularly difficult to remove - a little annoying at best, hard to access at worst (it's basically a blind operation with the tools that'll fit), but overall, not too bad to remove, clean, and reinstall. The throttle plate is obviously easier to get off because you can actually _see_ it.


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