# Let's make my car handle, help a guy out in here!



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Front and rear sway bars will help. Also, some of your body roll may actually be tire sidewall compression. Try boosting your tire pressure a few PSI at a time until you find a tire pressure you like. You may discover that you overshoot the PSI and have to go back down. Experiment. Don't go above the max sidewall PSI.

Which trim level do you have. My ECO MT as very little body roll.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Better tires will help out immensely. Whatever tires you have, ditch them for some high-performance all-seasons at the low end, or full-on summer tires at the high end.


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## Stampedenit (Jun 13, 2012)

I agree with the above. Tire choice/size will help out a lot.


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## Throwdown (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes, agree with all of the above. Coilovers are often a first choice because they will allow you to lower the center of gravity (and give the look most prefer) and use damper settings to stiffen your suspension. Sway bars and chassis braces will also help keep the chassis tight, especially during cornering. Stickier tires will help keep that stiffer chassis planted to the road


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

What size wheels do you have right now, and what speed rating are the tires? If they're the 16's on the LS and LT models, those need to be ditched for at least 17's, and preferably 18's. I have a set of 16" winter wheels with R speed rated snow tires on them. There's a world of difference between those and the 17" wheels with V speed rated tires that come OEM on the Eco. The snow tires are much less stable at high speeds than the OEM tires, and don't respond as well to steering inputs, even at below-freezing temperatures. 

Tires really are the biggest bang for the buck regarding handling modifications. Having a fancy suspension setup is useless if the tires don't grip. 

As an anecdote, I had a set of grippy all-seasons on my old Buick. They let that car handle much better than that rolling couch had any right to. Yeah the car had body roll akin to a sailboat on a very windy day. It did stick to the road like glue, though!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

sciphi said:


> As an anecdote, I had a set of grippy all-seasons on my old Buick. They let that car handle much better than that rolling couch had any right to. Yeah the car had body roll akin to a sailboat on a very windy day. It did stick to the road like glue, though!


My Montana was the same way. It would roll like crazy but stuck and tracked exactly where I put it. It does take some time to get used to body roll. Even in snow, that van never unexpectedly broke traction except with Michelins. The OEM and Bridgestone tires I used on it were rock solid performers, even in snow & ice.

Tires make a huge difference. The problem is that not all tires will work on all cars. For example, a lot of people swear by Michelins, but I wouldn't put a Michelin on a Detroit designed suspension as I have had two pairs and neither gripped the road. On the other hand, my dad runs Michelin's on his BMWs and has absolutely no problems with traction and performance. From one of the other threads on tire pressure, it appears that at least one Cruze trim (other than the LS) comes with poorly matched tires that don't grip very well. I know the ECO's tires are well matched to the suspension, especially when running 40 to 45 PSI cold, thus my earlier recommendation to play with your tire pressure. Tires behave differently at different pressures.


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## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

For only $1000, I'd suggest staying clear from coilovers as a good set is easily $1,200-1,500+.

For your budget, I'd get the front & rear strut bars, rear sway, and the front sway z links from ISM. Talk to Steve about the sways, and about the shipment delay, because buying a so-so pair of coilovers is just a waste, money wise.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Spending money on firming up the suspension is a waste without good tires.

And the Firestones that come on the LS/1LT models are just garbage for handling. Good tires first, maybe a set of 17/18" rims, then suspension upgrades!


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## bartonmd (Jun 30, 2011)

I've seen this asked a couple times, but I don't get it... My ECO M/T has next to ZERO body roll... You can feel the tires wanting to dive around a little and slide, but being LRR tires, it's kind of expected. 36-37psi is great in mine.

The thing you have to watch is, I don't know where your car sits with the "racing" springs, but the more you lower it, the more the body will want to roll, because the roll center and CoG get closer together.

Mike


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Yeah, I don't feel like the LT rolls much either. The suspension is very willing and WANTS to let the car be thrown around easily.


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## atxjustice6r (Mar 15, 2012)

I do have the stock tires on it, but they're from the lTZ wheels. Tires are Michelin Pilot ## something but Discount Tire said theyre great tires. I'm on 18" aftwrmarket wheels w/H&R springs. If I could post a pic on here I'd do it? I'm on my iPhone so maybe I'm missing where to post a pic.


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## 20131pz69 (Oct 22, 2012)

any update? Do you have the Eco or LS/1LT or 2LT/LTZ? Believe they have different setups from the factory. 
My 2 cents are:
i. replace the front end links (ISM/ whiteline or have a shop build you a pair), then go from there. 
ii. tires (you can get ones with stiffer sidewalls/ run higher pressures- toyo proxes/ dunlop sport xxxx are what i've used on multiple cars). They have stickier rubber, which will improve grip (braking/ lateral/ maybe acceleration, if u are loosing traction). The choice depends on where you live. In the SF area, summer performance tires work pretty much all year round


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## Maxzillian (Sep 16, 2012)

Best $1000 you can spend to make the car corner better will be on tires. There's a lot of Michelin Pilot branded tires available so without knowing the exact model of tire I really can't draw any conclusions. For reviews and ratings, check tirerack.com.

Based off the one time I've autocrossed my Eco, I think the next logical step would be to add a rear swaybar (there is no factory rear sway bar, although the trailing arm rear suspension does have a torsion beam incorporated into the design). Only once those two things are done would I bother with springs and shocks.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

Maxzillian said:


> Best $1000 you can spend to make the car corner better will be on tires. There's a lot of Michelin Pilot branded tires available so without knowing the exact model of tire I really can't draw any conclusions. For reviews and ratings, check tirerack.com.
> 
> Based off the one time I've autocrossed my Eco, I think the next logical step would be to add a rear swaybar (there is no factory rear sway bar, although the trailing arm rear suspension does have a torsion beam incorporated into the design). Only once those two things are done would I bother with springs and shocks.


Neither my 2012 LS nor my ECO seem to do much rolling, however, the ultra racing strut tower bars do make a world of difference in handling.  When Boats still had his Cruze he had the upper front and lower rear on his car and we would hit off ramps where he would pull away hard, and i was pushing mine to the limit and couldn't come close to keeping up. And he was on the ECO LRR tires.



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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

silverls said:


> Neither my 2012 LS nor my ECO seem to do much rolling, however, the ultra racing strut tower bars do make a world of difference in handling. When Boats still had his Cruze he had the upper front and lower rear on his car and we would hit off ramps where he would pull away hard, and i was pushing mine to the limit and couldn't come close to keeping up. And he was on the ECO LRR tires.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Sorry to thread jack but whrt happens to boats cruze I haven't been on in awhile but yes the utra racing strut bars and I would recoment changeing the front sway bar linkcage and upgraded rwar sway bar which can be found at insane speed motorsport.

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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

If I remember correctly, Boats sold it for a truck.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Sorry to thread jack but whrt happens to boats cruze I haven't been on in awhile but yes the utra racing strut bars and I would recoment changeing the front sway bar linkcage and upgraded rwar sway bar which can be found at insane speed motorsport.
> 
> Sent from my Droid using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Yes, with a growing family he opted for a 4 door silverado to meet his needs. You can see it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz_ZKcQhHaU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

Nice truck.

I think the LTZ RS handles better because of the Michelin Pilots... maybe look into getting those?

Yes, this car can outhandle a BMW 3 series on dry pavement. I believe it. I need to autocross this monster


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## SlowBoost (Jul 26, 2011)

There is nothing tremendously wrong with the handling on the Eco. Stickier tires will provide tons of benefit. I personally think the upper tower mounts are a waste of money since the towers are sitting on the firewall.You are dumping money on the car to make the firewall more rigid? I'm also not sold on a bolt on rear sway whtn you've got the stiffness of the axle going all the way across. 

The only thing I'd really want to do is get an upgraded set of dampers. You are putting a sport or race spring on stock dampers and expecting good results. What we need is a set of Konis to be released and some good tires, and then we'd be about spot on. I reach the traction limit on the rubber way, way before the suspension starts causing any issues in vehicle control. 

You will never make the car handle as well or even clos to a Golf or GTI.


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

The Eco is 1.6 mph faster thru the 700 ft. slalom than a GTI on LRR tires! (Road & Track recent tests) I'd bet some ultra HP summer tires would make the Eco outstanding.


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## SlowBoost (Jul 26, 2011)

Road and Track is only showing a slalom speed for the Boxter S as being 1.3 faster than the Cruze, too......so I'm not sure how worthy that publication's info really is. They also show the skidpad as a 0.06G favor on the GTI, so you can see that the tires are a huge limiting factor. Cheat and put some R Comps on there and you might have something. But put some nice summer tires on a GTI, and the same tires on a Cruze, and take both to an autocross. I would bet a substantial amount of money that the winning ticket would not be a Cruze.


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

The Cruze has won both the BTCC and WTCC several years in a row and is widely accepted to have the best chassis in both series. I think the Cruze and GTI would be a lot closer than you'd think if they were both prepared equally. I know what good car feels like as I track my 260Z regularly (it has been prepped for the track). Not saying the GTI isn't a great car but I think you folks aren't appreciating how good the fundamentals of this car are. Here's a vid of my Z on track

Datsun 260Z @ High Plains Raceway - YouTube


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I have always had the thought Chevrolet should help build 12 cars and have a U.S race series.

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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

i was thinkin about this last night watching initial d haha.if u want it to handle coilovers with a stiffer spring rate,chassis bracing up the arse,poly bushing wherever you can get them to go,then were gonna need bigger brakes,then for some weight reduction,idd get some camber bolts and a nice steering wheel too.Thats all of what i thought could be done and wheels and tire preferably something in the 9in wide range.mmm i think im gonna take my cruze here.


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

SlowBoost said:


> Road and Track is only showing a slalom speed for the Boxter S as being 1.3 faster than the Cruze, too......so I'm not sure how worthy that publication's info really is. They also show the skidpad as a 0.06G favor on the GTI, so you can see that the tires are a huge limiting factor. Cheat and put some R Comps on there and you might have something. But put some nice summer tires on a GTI, and the same tires on a Cruze, and take both to an autocross. I would bet a substantial amount of money that the winning ticket would not be a Cruze.



Actually the Boxter Spyder is 74.2 mph thru the slalom to the Cruze ECO 67.7 . That is 6.5 mph faster which is due to it being designed as a sports car from the ground up.


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## SlowBoost (Jul 26, 2011)

30 Ounce said:


> Actually the Boxter Spyder is 74.2 mph thru the slalom to the Cruze ECO 67.7 . That is 6.5 mph faster which is due to it being designed as a sports car from the ground up.


Sorry, numbers I was going off of were were not the most current revision of the S which Porsche significantly dumped money into, and the numbers were much worse than what I put.


Porsche Boxter S Slalom  65.6 mph
 

That's from Road and Track. The new S is apparently much better sorted.

And as far as comparing a WTCC car to a dealer parking lot buy......really? Really? The 2000 Focus came in full WRC trim and Nicky Grist in the passenger seat, too.

Never said the Cruze wasn't good. In fact I said the opposite. But it is not as good as a GTI in the twisties, or on the track. And until someone shows me proof otherwise, I'll go with what my actual autocross results in the Cruze tell me. 

I should dig up that vid of me hanging with my buddy in his Z. Those were fun times.


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## babymobilcruze (Aug 17, 2012)

I don't have anything to add other than can I get s link to h&r race springs, I was unaware those were available for the cruze


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

SlowBoost said:


> And as far as comparing a WTCC car to a dealer parking lot buy......really? Really?
> 
> Of course not. I am speaking of equally prepped cars of which VW participates (I think it's Skoda that uses the VW chassis). They all use the same 1.6 liter engine to emphasis the handling & driver talent. They also must use stock suspension pickup points and general design. Which is more to my point that the fundementals are right. They all start with a factory stock chassis. They actually use the Eco rear suspension. Check out Racecar Engineering magazine March 09. They did a full write up on this.


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

Here's a link Chevrolet Cruze WTCC | Racecar Engineering

although they say they are using a 2.0 l engine I'm pretty sure they have changed to the 1.6.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

30 Ounce said:


> Here's a link Chevrolet Cruze WTCC | Racecar Engineering
> 
> although they say they are using a 2.0 l engine I'm pretty sure they have changed to the 1.6.


They use 1.8 l motors

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## 20131pz69 (Oct 22, 2012)

:question:


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

20131pz69 said:


> View attachment 9000
> :question:


Yes and sorry

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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

To the OP:

If you already have lowering springs installed the next step to balance the car's handling will likely be a rear sway bar (I say likely because I don't know what your spring rates are).

To everyone else who doesn't know what they're talking about:

Tires increase grip (and grip-related characteristics like breakaway feel/speed) but do nothing for handling. Taking a car that handles bad and putting grippier tires on it just gives you a car that handles bad FASTER. An understeering turd will still have turd-ish understeer no matter what tires you put on it; it will just understeer at higher speeds around a given corner.

Handling it determined by the car's chasis set up: suspension/steering geometry, springs, dampers and roll bars. If you want a car to HANDLE BETTER, this is where you start. A better handling car can also have more grip on a given tire by balancing the cornering loads front to rear and keeping the tire's relationship to the ground closer to optimal.

Eibachs on my Eco improved the handling AND the grip: Quicker turn in and better front end grip due to added camber from lowering. The car still understeers at the limit, but the chassis is much quicker to react to steering inputs and the grip increase (still using the OEM LRR Eco tires) is impressive. A rear sway bar will help balance out the handling so the rear tires participate more mid-corner. The only piece of the puzzle that will be sub-par at that point will be the OEM dampers, which are a little under-damped for these springs.


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