# Confession time: Does anyone other than me wish they bought a gasoline Cruze?



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I have thoroughly enjoyed my 2018 Cruze sedan for the past two years, but after really thinking about it as an investment it kinda makes me wish I had purchased the same car in a gasoline model. I would still have purchased a 6MT model instead of the automatic.

My biggest desire is simply MORE POWER. Now that I'm seeing the opportunity to push the gasoline engine past 200 horsepower with a custom tune, it makes me regret buying the diesel which has no affordable tuning options.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Not here. Then again I have 4 Diesels. There is tuning for the Diesel, but you have to go overseas to get it, New Zealand. Also, EFI Live will tune a Gen 2 Diesel Cruze. 

Note that many Gasoline engines have had blown pistons, certainly don't regret not having that potential outcome. The issues with the Diesel are emmissions, and if driven in mostly highway, that seems to be a non-issue in the Gen 2, and even the Gen 1 I have does pretty well in that driving profile. 

Sure, the gasoline engine option was cheaper, depending on trim, but it won't ever have the low end torque of the diesel, nor capabilty to go a long time before rebuild. To get that 200HP on the Gas engine, I'm sure it's pushing 8000RPM, you get 140 Hp stock on the Diesel at a mere 5000 RPM or there abouts. 

It's all perspective. The Diesel will be a rare breed in the future, and you won't ever see the MPG on the gas engine to rival the Diesel, and I've had a couple of Gas engine Cruzes for rentals and was able to observe that, even the 2019 with the CVT won't get close to Diesel MPG, but it's closer.. and yet CVTs have there own issues for longevity. 

Be happy with the Diesel, and look into EFI Live if you really think you need more HP, the engine is certaily capable of producing it.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I have a 2012 Cruze 2.0L TD and in 8 years I have never had any real issues to worry about. with 161hp and 266f/l of torque it is a dream to drive. My daughter has a 1.6T Cruze hatchback manual and even with its 177hp it is found wanting with 4 adults and luggage on board, compared to the diesel. I didn't buy the car for resale value, I bought it because it is like my old 3.8 V6 Commodore for easy driving and actually has more torque than the V6.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Not even a little bit. No interest in speed from a daily driver really, and if I get a fast car it will be something cooler (aka older) that I use for fun. These days speed is boring ... every bland sedan, SUV, truck, and minivan is fast now. Personally I think the diesel is relatively fast but my perspective is different ... plus fast or not, you barely have to rev it and don't have to downshift in the mountains. The only times I wish I got something else are when I get to particularly dwelling on my mystery regen problem which causes me more stress than it should, but when I put that out of my mind the car is just so enjoyable. If I had to get something else it would probably be a Hyundai Veloster Turbo, but I think I'd be pretty bummed to be striving for 35 mpg on the highway, now that I'm used to what this car gets (even though from an economic standpoint it would really make no difference). And it's not that like the Veloster is bonkers fast ... hell I can get an older Mercedes AMG for less than $10k if I want something fast. What I'd love even more is a Lotus Europa ... that is my idea of fun (complete lack of crash safety aside). Don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind a gas Cruze with a 6-speed manual, it would have been on my short list if I hadn't picked the diesel, but imo the gains wouldn't outweigh the losses, for me, if I switched to it from a diesel.

To be fair I've also just always had diesels and I like them. I know they don't have much of a future, if any, so it means something for me to have a "Last Unicorn". I just think it was so cool that it existed in 2018, I knew it wasn't going to for long, so I don't think I could have resisted no matter whether the logic added up or not.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> nor capabilty to go a long time before rebuild


What percentage of car buyers today are rebuilding an engine? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? This isn't the 1900s any longer. Engines last the life of the vehicle until people want to upgrade to something newer.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> you won't ever see the MPG on the gas engine to rival the Diesel


When my diesel sedan was in the shop I had a loaner Cruze with the gasoline engine. Highway economy kept to 40mpg or greater, which is basically the same fuel costs when you factor in the extra cost of diesel fuel.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> The Diesel will be a rare breed in the future


You know that's not a good thing, right? When a manufacturer sells a few thousand of something among millions, you don't get good product support in the future.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> You know that's not a good thing, right? When a manufacturer sells a few thousand of something among millions, you don't get good product support in the future.


Even though this makes sense, there is still appeal to having something obscure if it's what you like. If it's like most obscure things, the aftermarket will eventually come through, though I do have concerns over whether that will happen for these. I don't think most of us make a purely logic-based decision when picking a car. I mean honestly buying a new car is the antithesis of an investment anyway. Unless you bough a Buick Grand National new and climate stored it without driving it until now ... and apparently that is a thing people did.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> What percentage of car buyers today are rebuilding an engine? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? This isn't the 1900s any longer. Engines last the life of the vehicle until people want to upgrade to something newer.


Well, I have a 1996 Saturn back-up car, and a 1962 Land Rover.. so while many people never keep a car long enough to get to the engine re-build stage, some do.. if that is not you.. fine, but you ASKED for the opinion of others.. and some of those others will keep a car long enough to care about a rebuild.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> When my diesel sedan was in the shop I had a loaner Cruze with the gasoline engine. Highway economy kept to 40mpg or greater, which is basically the same fuel costs when you factor in the extra cost of diesel fuel.


Great.. go ahead and switch to the gas model if that is what YOU want. Everyone is free to choose.. you ASKED what others thought, and thus I provided my opinon.. Sure at current low fuel costs the MPG differnence is not a huge economic issue.. yet if you read up on the Gas engine, you really need at least 89 Octane, or MORE if you want power, and clearly you indicated you want power.. so 89 Octane or more is going to about the same as Diesel, perhaps more depending on market.. where I'm at, Diesel is sometimes cheaper than regular unleaded... I have seen just short of 60mpg on long drives.. and can drive across the entire state (WA) and BACK on a single tank of fuel.. There is something to be said about fewer trips and time standing at a fuel station pump as well. 

But if you want a gasser, go ahead and get one, in many ways a fine car for what it's worth...


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> You know that's not a good thing, right? When a manufacturer sells a few thousand of something among millions, you don't get good product support in the future.


GM sold many of these diesel engines overseas, and with the global market and internet I'm not concerned about finding parts.. the US market is not a good place for Diesels, especially cars.. but in the 2.8 Colorado/Canyon, and up there are some parts shared, like fuel filters and DEF system components.. so it should not be a big issue, and besides.. I have a back up car if needed..


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> I have attainde just short of 60mpg on long drives.. and can drive across the entire state (WA) and BACK on a single tank of fuel.. There is something to be said about fewer trips and time standing at a fuel station pump as well.


Yeah the range is a big bonus imo whether there are fuel cost savings or not. I drove to Boston and back from south of Philadelphia (700 miles), and didn't even get down to the reserve. Not that I couldn't handle stopping for fuel, I did just fine with my Jeep that does 500 miles a tank tops. But if you're doing a ton of highway trips, not having to fuel much is nice. And during the summer diesel and regular are close or even the same, so the savings on a trip does add up.


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> I have thoroughly enjoyed my 2018 Cruze sedan for the past two years, but after really thinking about it as an investment it kinda makes me wish I had purchased the same car in a gasoline model. I would still have purchased a 6MT model instead of the automatic.
> 
> My biggest desire is simply MORE POWER. Now that I'm seeing the opportunity to push the gasoline engine past 200 horsepower with a custom tune, it makes me regret buying the diesel which has no affordable tuning options.


I have a tune and I love it, only concern is the transmission and turbo. The gas transmission is just "strong" enough to handle a good tune.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Our tranny is rated 450 450 isn't it? We should have zero worries. No?
WAyyyyy more torque than the Gasser everyday. I like it.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

I used to get Max torque out of my 2015 is was extra fun to spin the wheels in 3rd gear.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Aussie said:


> I have a 2012 Cruze 2.0L TD and in 8 years I have never had any real issues to worry about. with 161hp and 266f/l of torque it is a dream to drive. My daughter has a 1.6T Cruze hatchback manual and even with its 177hp it is found wanting with 4 adults and luggage on board, compared to the diesel. I didn't buy the car for resale value, I bought it because it is like my old 3.8 V6 Commodore for easy driving and actually has more torque than the V6.


I would hold onto that car as long as possible. Loved my 2015 should have kept it and got a tune. It did not need a tune it just would have made my life easier.


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## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

Considering the price disparity, you could probably sell the diesel, buy a gasser in similar condition, and pocket a few thousand dollars.

I won't be trading in my diesel until I can get an electric car that I'm happy with. I have a street-legal autocross car that I can drive when I want to have fun and beat myself up. For the other 99.8% of driving I want the quietest, most comfortable, and cheapest thing I can rack up stupid miles on without having to worry about wear and tear.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

*Confession time: Does anyone other than me wish they bought a gasoline Cruze?

A: No*


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> If it's like most obscure things, the aftermarket will eventually come through, though I do have concerns over whether that will happen for these.


The aftermarket delivers for products that are either:
1. Widely available, like a Volvo 240, or;
2. Expensive and collectible, like a McLaren F1.

If you're Jay Leno and own a McLaren F1, sure, you can afford to send that car to the single USA-based McLaren mechanic in Philadelphia who can drop the engine to do the 5-year maintenance overhaul. $10 million dollar car and only 100 of them made? Sure, the aftermarket will support it because the rich owners can/will pay.

If you own a pedestrian car like a Volvo 240 where there are millions on the road, you can probably buy every part you need to overhaul the engine. And it's simple enough to do in your driveway without dropping the engine out of the car!

But how many vehicles did GM sell with this engine in the USA? Including a couple years of SUVs, did the number sold exceed 20,000? They were languishing on dealer lots without any advertising to sell them. GM yanked the engine from the SUV lineup for the 2020 model year because they weren't selling.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> Diesel is sometimes cheaper than regular unleaded...


I get that weird price inversion where I live only on rare occasions. Diesel is always higher than gas here and it's multiple excuses throughout the year:
Fall: Farmers are harvesting so demand for diesel is high!
Winter: Heating oil demand is up so demand for diesel is high!
Spring: Farmers are tilling and planting so demand for diesel is high!
Summer: Farmers are doing, uh, stuff. It's priced higher because screw you!

There are two fuel stations that fight a price war on a two-week cycle. It drops by cents each day over two weeks and then there is a huge, major employer in town that on payday weekend every gas station in town shoots prices up by at least 20¢ a gallon when that payroll hits.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> GM sold many of these diesel engines overseas, and with the global market and internet I'm not concerned about finding parts..


This is probably accurate. I hadn't thought about it because I know GM made changes (for emissions) to the engine to bring it to the USA. Some article mentioned fast-heating ceramic glow plugs but when I looked at parts for the engine in Europe they are basically all using ceramic glow plugs because it's the rare case where a new technology lasts longer and does better than the older steel glow plugs.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

There were 2 different diesel engines used in Australia, 2009-2011 was a 2.0l single belt driven cam 4V engine with 110kw (147hp) and 320nm (236f/i) of torque and from 2011 on a 2.0l duel cam chain driven VVT engine was used, with 320kw (161hp) and 360nm (266f/l) of torque. Both are different to the US engine, also the 6T45 transmission is used.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> *Confession time: Does anyone other than me wish they bought a gasoline Cruze?
> 
> A: No*


Agreed, though we both have 1st gens. I haven't driven a 2nd gen CTD to compare.

I do hate the AF40-6, though.


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## chadtn (Feb 27, 2018)

I've been very happy with my diesel so far. I briefly considered buying a gas burner, but I kept reading internet horror stories about having to run 93 octane or they constantly puke pistons. Any truth to that, or did someone figure out what was causing it?

Around here 93 is normally 10-30 cents more than diesel. I see people comparing the gas engine's 40mpg highway numbers to the diesel all the time, but I normally get 40-42mpg around town in my car. I can spend hours idling with the air conditioning on and still get a tank average of 38mpg city driving. Flat road on the interstate and I average 62-65mpg at 70mph. Mountainous areas with large elevation changes still get 51mpg at 80mph.

I never really cared about the performance aspect of the Cruze. My other seven cars are all modified eight cylinders with various power adders (stroker/nitrous/turbo/supercharger). Now that I think about it, my motorcycle has almost the same size engine as the gas burner Cruze, gets about 50mpg if you stay out of the throttle, and actually makes more horsepower. heh..

Chad


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> I get that weird price inversion where I live only on rare occasions. Diesel is always higher than gas here and it's multiple excuses throughout the year:
> Fall: Farmers are harvesting so demand for diesel is high!
> Winter: Heating oil demand is up so demand for diesel is high!
> Spring: Farmers are tilling and planting so demand for diesel is high!
> ...


Also, the taxes on Diesel is higher that Gasoline, in most areas.. which contributes to the price. This is factored in because virtually all heavy trucks are diesel (States note that such heavy vehicles do most of the road damage, thus tax them to pay for repairs, makes sense I guess)... ever wonder why they don't go with a gasoline engine in the HD applications? In any case, there are places where Diesel is consistently cheaper.. CA for example, when I take trips there the Diesel always seems to be much cheaper than Gasoline, I think that is due to CA crazy in taxes.. but it goes to show that there is no reason Diesel has to be more expensive, it can and does vary.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

chadtn said:


> I've been very happy with my diesel so far. I briefly considered buying a gas burner, but I kept reading internet horror stories about having to run 93 octane or they constantly puke pistons. Any truth to that, or did someone figure out what was causing it?
> 
> Around here 93 is normally 10-30 cents more than diesel. I see people comparing the gas engine's 40mpg highway numbers to the diesel all the time, but I normally get 40-42mpg around town in my car. I can spend hours idling with the air conditioning on and still get a tank average of 38mpg city driving. Flat road on the interstate and I average 62-65mpg at 70mph. Mountainous areas with large elevation changes still get 51mpg at 80mph.
> 
> ...


Yeah I think the distinction between achieving a certain fuel economy on the highway and averaging it is important. I know the gas Cruzes can achieve 40 mpg (or even more if you're a good hypermiler), but my worst _tank_ so far has been 43 mpg. My numbers are similar to Chad's ... on the highway I see 60-65 going 70 mph ... and if we're talking about what the car _can_ achieve, I see plenty of chunks of 70 mpg. My best tank was 66 mpg, and that included stopping in the city of Boston in the middle of it. So if we're talking about what each car can achieve, in my experience at least, we're not talking about the diesels doing 10 mpg better than the gas ... we're talking about them doing 25 mpg better. Now, I recognize that that's a limited comparison because we're only talking about numbers on the highway. I guess if you want to compare a gas Cruze's mixed number to a diesel's, the gap would likely narrow, not to mention the added probability of trouble with a diesel that doesn't get enough highway. But I think it's fair to say a lot of us bought ours for the highway prowess, and there, there are advantages ... especially for those of us who live where the gas vs. diesel price gap is not as severe. I knew what diesel cost when I bought the car, and the fuel economy exceeded my expectations. So no I am not personally disappointed.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> The aftermarket delivers for products that are either:
> 1. Widely available, like a Volvo 240, or;
> 2. Expensive and collectible, like a McLaren F1.
> 
> ...


Chrysler sold 16,000 Jeep Liberty CRDs between 2005 and mid-2006 in North America, and that number may be an overestimate. They were basically a "testing the water" car that they had no real interest in selling or servicing. It had a VM Motori drivetrain that at the time nothing else in the US had. While they did develop a niche, they are neither valuable nor collectible. Yet for the most part the aftermarket is loaded for them. I can also get parts easily for my 87 Mercedes which they sold 2,500 of here total (and despite the brand it is not valuable). I can get aftermarket parts for my Peugeot here, other that two kind of oddball things I had to get from France. I realize with the real old cars it's not the greatest comparison because they are simple enough that it's easier to find shared parts across models, or improvise if needed. I guess you could say for the Jeep, the offroading aspect puts it in a niche with a healthier aftermarket in general. So yes I do worry about the future of parts for the Cruze but less so because of the lack of production numbers and more because of the lack of culture around them and GM's bad track record with parts for anything. But in general there are a lot of nonvaluable, low production cars that have surprisingly good aftermarket support. I would also hope that the availability in other markets will help in that regard, even if some of the really specific emissions stuff might be tough. Part of me is tempted to just order $2k of emissions stuff from GM now and shelf it so I have my own NOS stash.

I'd love to know how many they actually sold, of each generation of Cruze, of the SUVs, and how the production was split sedan vs hatch and auto vs manual. I'm sure it's super low, though funnily within a two-mile radius of my house I have seen (not counting mine) two Gen 2 diesel sedans (one today actually!), two diesel Equinoxs, and three Gen 1 diesel sedans. I think diesel is more popular in my area than average though ... there's also a twin Jeep CRD to mine I see here and there a couple miles from me.


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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

No, it's got 240 ft/lbs of torque. Everyone talks horsepower but torque is the number that matters. Besides, I bought the thing for fuel economy not raw speed, if I wanted that I would have gotten a GTI.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I have checked my diesel engine temperature compared to my daughter's 1.6T petrol Cruze and it runs at 80-85C whilst the petrol Cruze runs at 105C. In F terms this is a difference of around 35F and I believe is why the diesel has less cooling system issues.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

chadtn said:


> I've been very happy with my diesel so far. I briefly considered buying a gas burner, but I kept reading internet horror stories about having to run 93 octane or they constantly puke pistons. Any truth to that, or did someone figure out what was causing it?
> 
> Around here 93 is normally 10-30 cents more than diesel. I see people comparing the gas engine's 40mpg highway numbers to the diesel all the time, but I normally get 40-42mpg around town in my car. I can spend hours idling with the air conditioning on and still get a tank average of 38mpg city driving. Flat road on the interstate and I average 62-65mpg at 70mph. Mountainous areas with large elevation changes still get 51mpg at 80mph.
> 
> ...


To be fair motorcycle engines are relatively low feature and inefficient. Displacement just isn’t the denominator anymore so you have modern natural aspirated 3.6Ls outperforming 6.0Ls. However both engines are actually physically the same size.

Even with motorcycles displacement is becoming somewhat ambiguous now that variable timing and better oil management is becoming more common.


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## 6speedTi (May 18, 2018)

No I don't. I had a chevy sonic with the same 1.4 liter turbo. Underpowered and tons of turbo lag. The cruze is a heavier vehicle. My diesel cruze has tons of torque and acceleration over the Sonic. I can't imagine how lame the cruze is with a 1.4 liter gasoline engine is.
I like my cruze diesel so much that I also have a Colorado diesel.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

chadtn said:


> Flat road on the interstate and I average 62-65mpg at 70mph.


I live in Central Illinois. It is FLAT. How are you achieving fuel economy 20% greater than I can with the same conditions?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> ever wonder why they don't go with a gasoline engine in the HD applications?


It's making a comeback. Ford's new 7.3 gasoline engine is specifically designed for HD applications where buyers don't want or need to spend $10,000 for a diesel engine option.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> I live in Central Illinois. It is FLAT. How are you achieving fuel economy 20% greater than I can with the same conditions?


I shouldn't speak for someone else, but I'm assuming he's talking about what it can achieve on extended highway runs. I have seen those numbers on road trips for full tanks (and if you trust the DIC, see them all the time for limited stretches). But no I don't see them for a normal tank average. I'm not sure 100% flat is necessarily optimal, though I've never really had the chance to try. My two road trips (which were admittedly ages ago when the car was newish, so who knows if I could duplicate now) were both pretty hilly and one had a decent chunk of mountains. Even though they were out and back to the same point, I think the car gains from downhill more than it is hurt from uphill. One of these days I'd love to take it cross country and see what it does in a day of flat roads ... logically you'd think it would be better, but I'm not sure.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

One thing to keep in mind, the Glorious perfect built car, they are out there. Fluids make a difference, cetane improver makes a difference, friction improvers make a difference at least for me and my application. Tires, tire pressure and alignment can all make a big difference Weight makes a massive difference. I am almost 300 lbs there is no way I will get the same mileage as a 100 lb person, and probably the biggest of all driver style do you really know how to get the most out of your mileage.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> It's making a comeback. Ford's new 7.3 gasoline engine is specifically designed for HD applications where buyers don't want or need to spend $10,000 for a diesel engine option.


When I say HD, I speak of Semi's, school busses, etc. Sure there are some Class A Motorhomes still going with gasoline V10s and large V8s, but at about 6 MPG also. The Diesel can get close to double that. 

From experience, my Gasoline 2WD 1/2 ton Chevy ext cab SB truck towing a 5000lb RV TT got about 9MPG (unloaded it did about 20MPG, it was a work truck, and 5 spd manual). When I went Diesel, the 3/4 ton, 4WD, crew cab, LB Duramax 6.6L Diesel, a truck at least 2000lbs heavier than the gas 1/2 ton.. I got an easy 15MPG with that towing the same trailer, at HIGHER speeds (the 1/2 ton could barely maintain 65 MPG, and with a headwind could not quite get there). So in that case you are talking over 50% improved MPG.. that is not insignificant, now granted that was the 4.8l LS V8 (1999) with port injection, a modern DI engine will do a bit better, but it's not possible to close that gap. 

Sure, the cost of a Diesel engine has gone up dramatically, in no small part due to extreme expense and warranty claims due to emmissions garbage that is put on which does not work well with all driving patterns.. use a diesel for frequent short drives and lots of idle.. like in frequent stop and go traffic, and bad things are bound to happen with the emmissions, though they have improved somewhat, but at a great cost. 

The fact remains, no matter how efficent the new direct injection gas engines become, they still use fuel that is 20% less energy by volume over diesel, that is just a scientific fact. They are also having all kinds of new issues on direct injections gasoline engines, like intake valve deposits and blockage.. a problem new since only air passes with DI, where before it was kept clean by detergents in the fuel. Then of course you have cases like the blown pistons on many LE2 engines, they are pushing limits, and when you lean out that much, all while trying to say the car can run on 87Octane.. bad things seem to be a near inevitable outcome... and you can bet they figure most will occur AFTER the waranty expires. 

When you see a fleet of semi's running gasoline engines, let me know.. somehow I don't see that happening.. though I can see some local delivery trucks going electric... because in a local delivery with lots of stop and go.. that could become economically viable over any ICE engine in the near term.. but I just don't see a switch back to gasoline engine in large trucks.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cruz15 said:


> One thing to keep in mind, the Glorious perfect built car, they are out there. Fluids make a difference, cetane improver makes a difference, friction improvers make a difference at least for me and my application. Tires, tire pressure and alignment can all make a big difference Weight makes a massive difference. I am almost 300 lbs there is no way I will get the same mileage as a 100 lb person, and probably the biggest of all driver style do you really know how to get the most out of your mileage.


It's interesting you mention weight because I always wonder about that factor. I weigh 110 pounds and while I doubt 20 pounds makes a difference, I am sure 100-200 pounds does. I am guessing I am one of the smallest drivers reporting numbers on these and I don't use haul around much or have passengers. I do also keep my tire pressure on the high side for summer. I only tried cetane improver for the first time this month, but I think the fuels in my area are probably pretty good already compared to some in other people's areas. So no doubt I don't think we can all expect the same numbers.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> It's making a comeback. Ford's new 7.3 gasoline engine is specifically designed for HD applications where buyers don't want or need to spend $10,000 for a diesel engine option.


"The 7.3-liter engine in Super Duty pickup cranks out best-in-class gas V8 output of 430 horsepower at 5,500 rpm and best-in-class torque of 475 ft.-lb. at 4,000 rpm. "



https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2019/08/01/ford-73-liter-V8-best-in-class-gas-power-torque-heavy-duty-pickup.html



For comparison, my 2009 Dodge Cummins, stock was 350HP at 3030RPM, and a flat torque of 610 (650 for the AT, mines a manual) from 1500RPM to redline.. with a mild tune I can go well over 430HP and stay well below 4000RPM, and push the torque to 1000Ft-lbs (I already upgraded the clutch to handle it if I ever felt I needed it, though it's not likely). The new Diesels are getting numbers way above those for this 7.3l engine... and I'd really like to see the MPG numbers.. when you figure engine displacement, and those much higher RPMS to get power an torque needed to tow or haul heavy loads.. you know the MPG is going to suffer. It's just a mathematical reality. A gasoline engine looks to maintain a constant air to fuel ratio, so high displacement, high RPM, mean high fuel burn rate... it's inevitable.


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## chadtn (Feb 27, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> I live in Central Illinois. It is FLAT. How are you achieving fuel economy 20% greater than I can with the same conditions?


Here is what I got this morning on my drive to work. It's a 48 mile trip that has major elevation changes the first half and is then relatively flat on the back half. I pull out onto the highway and set the cruise control to 60mph for about five miles. Then slow down to 50mph to go up, around, and back down a small mountain. The next 20 miles are all interstate with the cruise control set on 75mph. The last 15-20 miles are pretty flat and I have the cruise set on 60-70mph.

That trip average is very consistent. On a bad wind and weather day it's usually no lower than 58mpg. The absolute worst I've ever seen is 55mpg for my work commute because of traffic. Last week I drove 650 miles on a tank before the low fuel light came on. The pump clicked off at 11.2 gallons for $20 and some change. That included my weekly 500 mile work commute, idling in a drive through for breakfast five mornings, driving to lunch five days idling in a drive through, and at least 100 miles of city driving over the weekend.










Chad


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> "The 7.3-liter engine in Super Duty pickup cranks out best-in-class gas V8 output of 430 horsepower at 5,500 rpm and best-in-class torque of 475 ft.-lb. at 4,000 rpm. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fleet managers know better: Gas vs. Diesel: The Bad Investment Only Fleet Managers Know About


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> Sure there are some Class A Motorhomes still going with gasoline V10s


Ford still offers the V-10 Modular engine in school bus applications. The Blue Bird Vision is available and it's equipped to run propane, sold to school districts that want a vehicle that can be maintained by local Ford mechanics and also run clean-burning propane.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

I’ll never debate gas vs diesel Cruze because all things considered gas Cruze is always more economical.

That said, the original question...whether I wish I bought a gasoline Cruze?...Still a resounding No.

The CTD is a totally different animal and so much fun to drive, perfectly suited for my 600 mile all highway round trips to California and back. No downshifting on grades, plenty of passing giddy-up, smooth, quiet power and 800-1000 mile range per tank.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> Ford still offers the V-10 Modular engine in school bus applications. The Blue Bird Vision is available and it's equipped to run propane, sold to school districts that want a vehicle that can be maintained by local Ford mechanics and also run clean-burning propane.


Sure, and why do the large Truck, long haul operators in particular.. not go with Propane V-10s? Look, there are advantages and disadvantages of all these, and you'll find Propane has a very limited range, and very low MPG, because it has even less energy per gallon than Gasoline, which is less than Diesel, but for a local route, like a school bus that gets fueled at the end of every shift, it might make sense, but it's not going to haul goods across the wide expanse of the USA, and you won't find it hauling train cars either. It won't work well with small cars, because the size of the tank is too large and it's a pressurized fuel tank. 

I recall you started this conversation with regrets about your Diesel over gasoline, because you want more power... Propane is not getting you more power, and frankly the Gas Cruze can only get there by some seriously high RPM, a tune, then the transmission is the limiting part that you put at risk. The Diesel, can in fact be tuned, granted it's not easy or cheap, but you'll get all if it's stock HP and Torque at much, much lower RPM than any gasoline car, and the question was about regrets.. and no, I like my low RPM Torque and HP and 700 mile range car, that in stock configuration can do a sub 10 second 0-60MPH run. That would be 60's muscle car times, btw. Granted, many stock cars today can do that, but I did not buy a Cruze Diesel to be a race car, if you did, I could understan regret, but I'm not sure what about the car made you think it was a race car in the first place, I certainly missed that marketing pitch!


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> Fleet managers know better: Gas vs. Diesel: The Bad Investment Only Fleet Managers Know About


You did read that first paragraph? I talk about long haul semis using Diesel, and you come back with a GOVERNMENT fleet that uses GAS for it's under 19,500lb work vehicles. Those vehicles idle for long periods of time, and back in 2015, the date of the article.. the emmissions on Diesels had proven to be a maintenance nightmare with long idle periods, and frankly it's still a pattern that challenges the most recent systems, which are improved, but still suffer from long idle periods.. and it's not great for Gasoline engines either, but the emmissions for a Gasoline engine does not have a Filter, which is the root of the challenge for modern Diesels. 

From the first paragraph of your article: " I chose to avoid specifying diesel engines in Class 3-6 trucks. At that time, the decision that any vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 19,500 lbs. or lower" 

On MPG, author is being a bit deceptive on MPG, it's not about 2 MPG, it's about PERCENTAGE. If a gas truck gets 10MPG, and a Diesel gets 12MPG, you might say that's not much, but it's literally 20%! For a car, that would be 40MPG vs. 48MPG for instance. Now, based on my actual observations, the improvement going from Gas to Diesel with a RV was more like 50%, and that is even going from a 1/2ton 2WD truck, to a 3/4ton 4WD truck that was an easy 2000lbs heavier, so his 2 MPG is likely due to the large amount of idle time in the operating patern of that particular fleet. Also, the higher cost per gallon is not true all over the US, for example, Diesel is cheaper in CA, and in many places it's only more due to higher taxes placed on Diesel. 

From the article: 
"Although diesel engines enjoy a sizeable miles per gallon (mpg) advantage over gasoline engines in automobiles, truck engines are a different story. The actual advantage enjoyed by diesel engines in light and medium trucks is less than 2 mpg. In government fleets where daily travel distances are limited, idling is an unfortunate reality, and load requirements can be met equally well with gasoline or diesel engines with little or no impact on mpg; diesel fuel’s higher cost per gallon actually negates its slight advantage in mpg. "


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> emmissions for a Gasoline engine does not have a Filter


GDI engines are beginning to be equipped with particulate filters as a requirement in the EU, and I believe Mercedes-Benz has said they will voluntarily equip all their models in the USA with the same filters for better emissions. Government regulators are beginning to take notice of particulate emissions of gasoline engines.

I was looking at this the other day for a family member's Mustang: 2018-2020 ROUSH Mustang Supercharger Kit - Phase 2 750HP

Note that Roush says their supercharger is not acceptable for use on Mustangs equipped with particulate filters in the exhaust (EU 6.2 emissions standards).

The days of particulate filters for gasoline cars have arrived.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> GDI engines are beginning to be equipped with particulate filters as a requirement in the EU, and I believe Mercedes-Benz has said they will voluntarily equip all their models in the USA with the same filters for better emissions. Government regulators are beginning to take notice of particulate emissions of gasoline engines.
> 
> I was looking at this the other day for a family member's Mustang: 2018-2020 ROUSH Mustang Supercharger Kit - Phase 2 750HP
> 
> ...


And you can bet that Particulate filters on Gasoline cars are going to create all kinds of issues as they have on the Diesels. 

Seems the ever expanding quest for emmissions standards is drivng many of the problems we face, certainly cleaner emmsissions is a good thing, but there has to be a balance to what is reasonable, if the emmissions systems kill the engine and cause early replacement... what are the emmissions and enviromental impact of all that production to make the car, and then throw it away? There are no free lunches, when trying to solve one possible issue, they very likely can be created other as yet unseen issues and impacts. 

Ironically, in Europe, the gasoline car is considered the premium/performance option. Most economy cars there are Diesels.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Why I don’t regret buying my diesel, try this in a gasser (and still about 40-50 miles left in the tank).


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

There has been some discussion about propane (LPG) as a fuel for cars V petrol. I had for about 10 years, prior to buying my CTD in 2012, owned a a 3.8 V6 Commodore with duel fuel. On petrol it was costing me $80 per week to run on petrol only. As gas was less than half the cost of petrol and the Government at the time gave $2,000 toward the cost od adding LPG I had the gas fitted. It cost me $400 after my rebate and it was well worth it. My fuel cost went from $80 to $30 per week. On petrol I was using 9 litres per 100 km touring and on Gas 11 litres per 100km. The car had a 5 speed manual transmission and gas gave better low down torque than petrol, but petrol gave better high rpm power. I could switch between them on the move and used to go the first 100km on petrol and then use the whole gas tank after filling up. The petrol tank held 75 litres and the gas tank held 70 litres. One big advantage of LPG is no fuel pump is needed. It was set up to start on petrol all the time and when the gas was switched on it started on petrol and then went to gas right away. There was still enough room in the trunk for plenty of luggage and the spare was still under the floor and accessible. I had covered 250,000 km when I sold it and it was still running great. A side benefit at my 10,000 km oil changes the oil still looked new.


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## Scott205 (Aug 11, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> I have thoroughly enjoyed my 2018 Cruze sedan for the past two years, but after really thinking about it as an investment it kinda makes me wish I had purchased the same car in a gasoline model. I would still have purchased a 6MT model instead of the automatic.
> 
> My biggest desire is simply MORE POWER. Now that I'm seeing the opportunity to push the gasoline engine past 200 horsepower with a custom tune, it makes me regret buying the diesel which has no affordable tuning options.


I was debating about buying the diesel and opted for the 1.4L turbo. I didn't figure I would rack up the miles, so it would take me 8-10 years to make up the cost price in fuel. Then the ex moved to San Antonio, and I moved to an hour outside Houston.. and poof, 92,000 miles on my 2014. It has enough power to be sporty, (especially after some minor additions) but not enough to be a horsepower champ. I do like the suspension you get in the upgrade.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Aussie said:


> There has been some discussion about propane (LPG) as a fuel for cars V petrol. I had for about 10 years, prior to buying my CTD in 2012, owned a a 3.8 V6 Commodore with duel fuel. On petrol it was costing me $80 per week to run on petrol only. As gas was less than half the cost of petrol and the Government at the time gave $2,000 toward the cost od adding LPG I had the gas fitted. It cost me $400 after my rebate and it was well worth it. My fuel cost went from $80 to $30 per week. On petrol I was using 9 litres per 100 km touring and on Gas 11 litres per 100km. The car had a 5 speed manual transmission and gas gave better low down torque than petrol, but petrol gave better high rpm power. I could switch between them on the move and used to go the first 100km on petrol and then use the whole gas tank after filling up. The petrol tank held 75 litres and the gas tank held 70 litres. One big advantage of LPG is no fuel pump is needed. It was set up to start on petrol all the time and when the gas was switched on it started on petrol and then went to gas right away. There was still enough room in the trunk for plenty of luggage and the spare was still under the floor and accessible. I had covered 250,000 km when I sold it and it was still running great. A side benefit at my 10,000 km oil changes the oil still looked new.
> View attachment 287115


Thanks for the post and data, as suspected, LPG gets lower MPG, but if it is much cheaper.. it might still work.. problem is, for most places here in the US, LPG is about the same as gasoline (petrol), and in some cases more.. and the stations that have LPG are limited.. and you can't operate the equipment yourself to fill the tank, and attendant has to do so for you... all that adds up to making it not work economically, and it's inconvienent as well.. now for a fleet that has it's own fueling station and fuels it's own fleet, and buys LPG at the wholesale bulk rate.. it might start making some sense.. but that is a limited market, and hence it has not become a popular option here in the US.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

MRO1791 said:


> Thanks for the post and data, as suspected, LPG gets lower MPG, but if it is much cheaper.. it might still work.. problem is, for most places here in the US, LPG is about the same as gasoline (petrol), and in some cases more.. and the stations that have LPG are limited.. and you can't operate the equipment yourself to fill the tank, and attendant has to do so for you... all that adds up to making it not work economically, and it's inconvienent as well.. now for a fleet that has it's own fueling station and fuels it's own fleet, and buys LPG at the wholesale bulk rate.. it might start making some sense.. but that is a limited market, and hence it has not become a popular option here in the US.


In Australia every service has a gas pump as well as diesel pumps. LPG has gotten more expensive in recent years, but is still half the price of petrol. Until the last few years taxi's ran on LPG exclusively, noe the Camry Hybrid type vehicles have replaced them.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> now for a fleet that has it's own fueling station and fuels it's own fleet, and buys LPG at the wholesale bulk rate.. it might start making some sense.. but that is a limited market, and hence it has not become a popular option here in the US.


The places I have seen with lots of LPG use it for taxi fleets. I think Las Vegas has some environmental initiative that all taxis must use LPG, because when I was there a while ago it was a fleet of Ford Crown Vics and every one of them was using LPG. They must have fueling stations for them and tax credits for the conversion hardware.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

Zero regrets on my diesel. I wouldn't even consider owning a gasoline Cruze at all. The only reason I have a Cruze is because of the diesel option.

If my usage patterns didn't line up with diesel features, I would look at completely different vehicles than gas Cruzes. Maybe a hybrid Malibu or any other hybrid or a Mazda, Toyota, or Honda hybrid or gasser with a manual transmission. Teslas are getting close to my price range too.


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## cdccjohnson (Apr 10, 2018)

Very happy with the Diesel. Like above the diesel option is the only reason I looked at a Cruze. I do a lot of highway driving so its ideal. When on business travel, I ended up with a gas hatchback as a rental. Drove like a small 4 cylinder. The best part of the diesel besides the MPG is that it drives more like a V6. The car isnt perfect with several things I would change if I could, but after 50K in two years, would never choice the gas.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I'm happy enough, wish I had more power though. Another 100hp would make this car a RIOT.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Ma v e n said:


> I'm happy enough, wish I had more power though. Another 100hp would make this car a RIOT.
> View attachment 287232


How do you get the DIC to display like that?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Cruz15 said:


> How do you get the DIC to display like that?


I've got a 2018 Redline. That's just what trip B looks like....oooh...probably because I'm a 1.4LE2, not diesel.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> I've got a 2018 Redline. That's just what trip B looks like....oooh...probably because I'm a 1.4LE2, not diesel.


That is how my Trip 2 looks as well, only I don't think it will count that high ... I just left Trip 1 to see the average over a long period but after about 6k miles it zeroed and started over (though the economy average stayed the same). I thought it was a glitch but I've heard other people say theirs did too. I use Trip 2 for tracking each tank ... so I guess it's possible Trip 2 would allow a longer distance?


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

It looks like the US version of the DIC might have more info than ours does in Canada.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> That is how my Trip 2 looks as well, only I don't think it will count that high ... I just left Trip 1 to see the average over a long period but after about 6k miles it zeroed and started over (though the economy average stayed the same). I thought it was a glitch but I've heard other people say theirs did too. I use Trip 2 for tracking each tank ... so I guess it's possible Trip 2 would allow a longer distance?


I made a concerted effort to keep Trip 1 from ever being reset for as long as I owned the car after driving it off the dealer lot. The 30,000 mile oil change ended with a tech futzing with it to the point that they accidentally reset it and I BLEW THE FUNK UP AT THEM ABOUT IT. Was probably undeserved, but I was upset over what is really a minor issue...


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Imagine how pissed I was with myself when I inadvertently reset my own trip B. Notice it doesn't match total miles....I was livid with myself., It was comical.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> I made a concerted effort to keep Trip 1 from ever being reset for as long as I owned the car after driving it off the dealer lot. The 30,000 mile oil change ended with a tech futzing with it to the point that they accidentally reset it and I BLEW THE FUNK UP AT THEM ABOUT IT. Was probably undeserved, but I was upset over what is really a minor issue...


I would have lost it over that too ... though in my case probably would have been too polite about it and then blown up about it later to my poor friends. I get really OCD about stuff with cars and posterity. I'm always highly worried the dealer will reset my "bests" on the 25-mile, 50-mile, and 450-mile screens (or I accidentally will) since I'm unlikely to reproduce any of them. I would love to have a lifetime reading on one of the trips but early on I did a road trip and used Trip 1 for the full trip, and Trip 2 for tanks. I did that for another road trip in October and intended to just let it keep rolling on Trip 1 so I could see a 10k+ average ... it was around 6k and then one day I checked and it was at 100 miles ... with the same mpg it had had for ages (53ish). I don't really understand why it would reset like that and at such a random number, but I saw a couple people on Facebook or somewhere say they had the same. Now I'm wondering if it was some glitch on my glitchy car's part though. A little disconcerting ... why would they design a digital trip-meter to max out at 6k? Mine looks like the exact same style DIC as Maven.

Edit: Looking at my own photo I realize I've been described Trip 1 and 2 backwards ... Trip 2 is my longterm, Trip 1 is my tank count. Either way I don't know why the longterm one cut me off.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Ma v e n said:


> Imagine how pissed I was with myself when I inadvertently reset my own trip B. Notice it doesn't match total miles....I was livid with myself., It was comical.


Can always plug in A bad battery. It causes most volatile memory to be reset. Including engine hours.

It can also destroy electronics but just ignore that part.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Snipesy said:


> Can always plug in A bad battery. It causes most volatile memory to be reset. Including engine hours.
> 
> It can also destroy electronics but just ignore that part.


Well shoot, now I'm wondering if that's what happened to mine. I mean obviously not plugging in a bad battery, but if I have a battery problem or cable issue. Though my Trip 1 and "best" mileage numbers didn't reset, just Trip 2 ... would it make sense for a fault to cause just one item of memory to reset? I've long wondered about electrical faults because I've theorized my erratic regens could be caused by the ECM being seemingly incapable of "learning" the DPF pressure diff sensor.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Bad ground somewhere? Its strange just trip 2. Bad memory?


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Cruz15 said:


> Bad ground somewhere? Its strange just trip 2. Bad memory?


Yeah and as far as I can tell the mpg reading on Trip 2 is still counting from the last time I manually reset it (so like 7k miles). When I noticed the miles count had changed, the mpg was the same as it was before, and it still isn't easily impacted by shorter term economy ... ie it's acting like an avg over thousands of miles.

I will bring it up whenever I get back to the dealer for the latest round of begging them to fix my regen problem. Though they're probably going to think I accidentally reset it myself ... the most plausible theory but I'm about 99% sure I did not. I'm so OCD with mileage and stuff I would have noticed.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> Well shoot, now I'm wondering if that's what happened to mine. I mean obviously not plugging in a bad battery, but if I have a battery problem or cable issue. Though my Trip 1 and "best" mileage numbers didn't reset, just Trip 2 ... would it make sense for a fault to cause just one item of memory to reset? I've long wondered about electrical faults because I've theorized my erratic regens could be caused by the ECM being seemingly incapable of "learning" the DPF pressure diff sensor.


Ive only seen it happen with really bad batteries which is literally causing the screens to flicker. It reset engine hours to 0 and made the trip counters set to the odometer. Among other things. The odometer is double redundant with the BCM so in the event that is lost it can just look at the BCM.

As for why it does it I’m not sure. Has to be some sort of error checking system getting triggered.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

I’ve also only seen it happen twice. Once on a Colorado and once on an equinox. But they use the same DIC as the gen 2 Cruze, at least the 2015/16 to 2018 model years. 2019s got an update.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Snipesy said:


> Ive only seen it happen with really bad batteries which is literally causing the screens to flicker. It reset engine hours to 0 and made the trip counters set to the odometer. Among other things. The odometer is double redundant with the BCM so in the event that is lost it can just look at the BCM.
> 
> As for why it does it I’m not sure. Has to be some sort of error checking system getting triggered.


Oh that's wild, I definitely don't have anything that dramatic. My Jeep did some wacky things when it didn't have a good connection between the cables and battery terminals ... mostly phantom "door ajar' warnings, locking itself, and the alarm going off. So I wonder if my car has something like that that's much more subtle. I never want to touch the battery on these though ... because of things like what you describe above.


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## CRUZE-66 (May 4, 2019)

Here's something I found from almost exactly 4 years ago and it made me think of this thread. It was before I ever had a Chevy Cruze. It'll take two minutes of your time but it's one of those things that either you'll love it or hate it. 

Sorry about the link but no Ewetoob for me. And try and be patient; there is a punchline.

GasOrDiesel.mkv


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