# Bigger brakes for the Cruze under $400.



## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Before making any changes to your car you must have the skills and the tools. If you don't have both, have your licensed auto mechanic do the work. No exceptions. Brakes are a life and death situation. Going is optional, stopping is mandatory. 

Thanks to the Sonic forum for much research on this swap. The most aggravating part of getting bigger brakes for the Cruze is the bolt pattern of 5x105. There are a lot of options open if you want to change your hubs to a larger bolt pattern. I did not want to change mostly because of having 5 wheels and tires in the stock pattern. Getting a spare wheel and tire in the 18" LTZ stock configuration cost me about $200. I added about 3 inches of hard foam to the tire well to make a stock rim and tire fit. Some cutting of the carpet mat was also required.

Now onto the brake swap. The Sonic folks had figured out that the Buick Encore had larger rotors in the 5x105 pattern. Score! No need to change hubs. The caliper from the Cruze is the same as the Encore except for the mounting brackets. I did not have to open the hydraulic system to make the swap. I found dust shields in the larger size, most likely from the Cruze diesel model. Add the Encore's larger brake pads and I'm done right?

Not so fast. The mounting holes are the right distance center to center but the Encore bracket uses 14mm bolts. The mounting holes will need to be drilled to accommodate. The drill I used is 35/64" just under the 14mm size. Because the drilling process is never perfect, this size drill bit was perfect. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO TAKE THIS STEP, STOP RIGHT NOW. You also need a socket for the large nut on the axle in 32mm. 

All right, now the instructions for the swap. Jack the car's front end up and place it securely on quality jack stands. Don't even attempt any car work with out jack stands.
Remove the wheels with a 19mm socket. Remove the two caliper bolts with a 18mm socket. Hang the caliper with wire or place it on a small box like I did. Don't let the caliper hang by the hose. (If you are doing this swap you already know this). Pull the old pads and clips. Remove the rotor retaining torx bolt and then the rotor. Remove the axle nut with the 32mm and then the 3 hub bolt (from the backside) they are also 18mm. Gently remove the hub and the old dust shield. I cleaned the hub and then removed the caliper brackets 10mm bolts. You don't have to take the caliper bracket bolts out to swap brackets. I did it to make cleaning the caliper easier. You want this to look good right? Push the caliper pot back into the caliper using a brake spreader.

For drilling the mounting holes I put a large piece of cardboard on the floor and covered both the caliper and the axle and hub opening with rags. When drilling, I chose to use two drill sizes to get to the 14mm size. I started with an 1/2" bit and then went to the 35/64". DON'T DO THAT. It was a pain you know where. Both bits grabbed and drilling was hard on both passes. Just use the 35/64" bit alone. That's what I did on the other side and it went quickly, still some grabbing but much easier. After drilling get the vacuum and clean up the metal filings. For some reason my wife insists on this step.


Now for the reassembly, I did the caliper work on the cardboard box and that worked great. I did the caliper now because with the dust shield removed there is more room.
Place the pad holding clips in now. Why? It's easier than when the caliper is assembled. Put some brake grease into the holes of the brake caliper where the sliding rods go. Slip the rods back into the bracket and assemble the caliper with the 10mm bolts. Insert the brake pads and push the box back out of the way.

Put back the hub bolts and let them stick out. Put the new shield in place on the protruding bolts, the hub holds it together. Gently slide the hub back over the axle shaft and finger tighten the hub bolts. It will take some wiggling, but it's not difficult. Tighten the hub bolts to torque spec. Replace the axle nut and torque to spec. Replace the rotor and retaining screw. Replace the caliper and torque the bolts to spec.

Stand back and grin. Man they look good!


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

One note, I did not check that the Cruze spare will fit. I have a full size wheel and tire so I did not try it. I will get around to retrieving my old spare from the shed and try it.

Update: I tested the old stock spare tire today. It fits over the bigger brakes by about 1/8". The spare is a 16".
Glad I bought another 18" LTZ rim and tire. Cost about $175.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Now for the parts list and cost.
2 ultra premium rotors from NAPA UP 881025 $94x2=$188
1 set ultra premium pad also from NAPA UP SS SS8667M $87
2 sets of caliper bolts from NAPA Up 64501 $5
2 caliper brackets from on line GM part store. #13372779 both $51
Dust shields #13324458 at $12 and #13324459 at $13
Drill bit 35/64" $22 pricey but worth every penny.
I am not including tax or shipping as every one will be different.

Total $378

If you want to use parts from other stores, I used.
2013 Buick Encore rotors, pads and bolts.
The shields and brackets are OEM but available on line.
The brackets are 2013 Buick Encore and the shields are 
2015 Cruze. The shields make the swap look factory.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

More pictures.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

*Brake pads*

One last note. All brake pads are not created equal.







On the right is the Wagner pad
Middle the stock Cruze pad
Left is the NAPA pad
I bought the Wagner's but I thought the pad area was smaller.
What is the point of bigger rotors if the pads don't maximize the breaking surface?
The NAPA ultra premiums are taller and look to have more area.
Oh, and the brakes are much improved.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Awesome find. Looking for something with Brembo or Willwood calipers. And I know there is something close, but I have no means or tools to measure or test this. After owning 3 Cruzes, this is the one thing, after you've loaded a new tune, is a set of new brakes up front. The car simply will not stop well from what the tune allows the car to do.

Brembo and Willwood both have precise measurements to allow you to pick something off the shelf that would fit.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

The challenge for the Cruze is bolt pattern 5x105 for the rotor.
The caliper mounting at 5.0" C to C (The Brembo from the Cobalt SS is 4.875")
The height of the rotor in relation to the caliper. (Centering the disc in a fixed caliper)
Finally wheel offset (Fitting the wheel over the caliper)

For one fifth of the price, and ease of installation. You can't beat this swap.
The car's stopping power is much improved. I scared a friend yesterday just for fun!


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

There are 100 other Brembo calipers, though. And I've heard of 2009 CTS-V calipers being fitted. But I've never seen it, myself. Also, the kit that ZZP uses, has the old F-Body calipers. No reason why they don't make a caliper for that. First pic is retrofitted Wilwoods front and rear. And the second is the infamous Dusk Edition Cruze, from the 2011 Sema show. 

http://m.mishimoto.com/r-miller-chevy-cruze.html

http://www.motortrend.ca/en/auto-shows/sema/2011/1110-sema-chevrolet-cruze/

This may be the answer. 

http://lukeskaff.com/category/automotive/


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

If I had that much to spend on brakes. I wouldn't mind doing the research to find out which 
part numbers to do the swap. Looks like different wheels are required as well. (on the SEMA car)
I would love that car!


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Champagne Jam-

Thanks for all the pictures. Even those of us not interested in this mod specifically will benefit from the pictures when the time comes to do brakes. 

Is the ABS sensor separate from the integral hub like old GM's of the past? I see a part number for an ABS sensor separately, but I'm wondering what it's reading as the hub goes around. There must be a magnet on the back of the hubs that spins in a field for the sensor to pick up? 

Great Job- Very OEM in appearance.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

The ABS sensor and sensor ring are on the axle and the back of the steering knuckle.
I didn't have to do anything to them. If the wheel stops the anti lock will kick in.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

No changes were needed to the ABS system. It is attached to the axle and the steering knuckle.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

now that you got bigger brakes time to combo up with some sticky tires and have some fun


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> now that you got bigger brakes time to combo up with some sticky tires and have some fun


Teamed up with the Trifecta tune, and the brakes, makes this car go from snooze to Cruze!
My last fun car was a 2005 Saturn Ion Redline. Now I don't miss it so much.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

add in some motul or brembo racing fluid, some coil overs, a whiteline rear sway bard and presto fun fun cruze


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> add in some motul or brembo racing fluid, some coil overs, a whiteline rear sway bard and presto fun fun cruze


Good advice all. The coil overs and the sway bar are on the long list. The stock tires are not Michelin's best.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm definitely not knocking the mod. Awesome that you went through all you did to make this work. I love someone taking the torch and running with it. This car has a long way to go. So many things can be done to it.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

CruzeTech said:


> I'm definitely not knocking the mod. Awesome that you went through all you did to make this work. I love someone taking the torch and running with it. This car has a long way to go. So many things can be done to it.


Never thought that you were knocking it. I wanted the brembo's for the looks as well as the performance. I like the 18" wheels, no need to upgrade those. There are a lot of things to like about this car. The handling, even stock is so much better than the Ion Redline. The Redline had good brakes though.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

I have a 6MT Eco. So, I don't have a z link. But I do have a white line away bar. It handles pretty good. Sometimes it gets a little squirrelly if I stab the brakes, at high speed. But it slows down ok. Bigger brakes are a must with the tune.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Go figure when i hear handles better then a red line i raise my brow lol


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> Go figure when i hear handles better then a red line i raise my brow lol


I put 40k miles on mine and I did wring it out more than a few times. The problem with the Redline was, at it's core
it was an Ion. Yes they put in a great motor, one of the best 4 cylinders GM ever made. They added bigger brakes and
better sway bars. But all those things are band aids to a basic econo box chassis. It was great in a straight line. Turning, not so much.
Oh, and it sucked in the wet. Forget about driving it in the snow. So much torque it would just sit there and spin the tires.


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## j_corr (Jan 7, 2014)

I like this idea for the front brakes! Very OEM Looking. Any options for the rears?


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

j_corr said:


> I like this idea for the front brakes! Very OEM Looking. Any options for the rears?


Thank you. My Cruze came with discs in the rear. The problem for the rear brakes is the emergency brake.
If you have the drums, get the upgrade to stock discs. Upgrade for the discs? Anyone know?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

im not super knowledgeable but didn't the cobalt ss share the same basic chassis?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> im not super knowledgeable but didn't the cobalt ss share the same basic chassis?


Yes, they're both Delta platform, and most of the parts are interchangeable. The Cobalt SS/TC had the benefit of suspension tuning on Nuerburgring, though. But it's easy enough to upgrade to all that '08+ FE5 stuff - that's what I'm running on my Cobalt.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

i wouldn't mind a cobalt ss but for the $ the cooper s looks like a better deal or take a cheaper miata and fix it up.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> i wouldn't mind a cobalt ss but for the $ the cooper s looks like a better deal or take a cheaper miata and fix it up.


The Cobalt SS is far faster, and surprisingly, nicer inside. The interior in the Minis are pretty horrifically built.

SS/TCs seem to hold their value a little better - but you can get an SS/SC for cheap. Then it's a cheap upgrade to the '08+ struts/shocks, a smaller pulley, bigger injectors, an exhaust and a tune. Boom.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

ehh ive ridden in a few cooper S and to be honest i like the interior, very comfortable and soooo much room for driver and passenger. ive not had seat time in a cobalt Ss so i cant comment and truly compare. plus very fun lil car. performance wise i think the two are in the same class but size wise the cooper cant compare to a larger vehicle like the cobalt


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> ehh ive ridden in a few cooper S and to be honest i like the interior, very comfortable and soooo much room for driver and passenger. ive not had seat time in a cobalt Ss so i cant comment and truly compare. plus very fun lil car. performance wise i think the two are in the same class but size wise the cooper cant compare to a larger vehicle like the cobalt


Performance-wise? Not really...SS/TCs have been known to run into the mid-13s when driven properly, stock. Cooper S of the same vintage _might_ be able to run high 14s. The Mini really doesn't weigh much less, but is about 90HP down on power.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

In the straight line numbers maybe so the ss is better but im also looking for track performance and overall vehicle. the mini is safer, more sold so better parts availability, they have a great cult like following, and the interior is great imo. now i would enjoy driving the cobalt ss in a turbo and see how i like it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> In the straight line numbers maybe so the ss is better but im also looking for track performance and overall vehicle. the mini is safer, more sold so better parts availability


Around Nuerburgring, the Cobalt SS/TC ran an 8:22.85, and held the production car record for FWD vehicle for quite some time. The ('08) John Cooper Works S (so, the better version), ran it in 8:35, 13 seconds slower. The SS/TC was also 4 seconds faster around VIR than the JCW.

And also, comparing safety ratings, you're not talking very different at all.

Cobalts are so easy to find parts for, you hardly have to try. And they're dirt cheap, to boot.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

hmm may have to look around see if i can drive one see how i like it. The ball and chain needs a new car since she is using my 95 grand Cherokee for work and that thing is a gas hog. we are looking into small car classes so its a coin flip of a miata cooper s ( wont do the john cooper works. not worth the crazy cash) or a cobalt ss. of the 3 i would prefer the miata since its RWd and cheaper but she still has not made her mind up.

either way since i fix the darn thing i get to autocross it lolccasion14:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Definitely go drive one, you won't be disappointed. '09+ got no-lift-shift, as well.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I was reading car & driver about it and they liked it. unfortunately could not use it in a 0-60 test since there rules say you have to clutch in and lift. if given the choice i prefer a miata since its light weight, super easy to modify, parts galore, in all honesty best fir for her since she does not need a lot of room. she carries a backpack and that's it lol. i like that the Ss and Cooper come boosted from factory and are easier to get more power but then you run into grip issues.


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## Cruzncannada (Nov 21, 2015)

Do you know specifically what 15 Cruze the dust shield is off of? Did it end up being from a diesel or any 15 Cruze?


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Cruzncannada said:


> Do you know specifically what 15 Cruze the dust shield is off of? Did it end up being from a diesel or any 15 Cruze?


I think the diesel, the parts listing did not say. It cryptically said for 16.
Use the GM part numbers to be sure
Dust shields #13324458 at $12 and #13324459 at $13 from GM Parts Now


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Any upgrades for the brakes on the Diesel Cruze? Or just pads and rotors like EBC or something like that...


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris Tobin said:


> Any upgrades for the brakes on the Diesel Cruze? Or just pads and rotors like EBC or something like that...


The Diesel has a bolt pattern of 5x115. You might find all kinds of cool rotors for that. I don't know the caliper mounting hole distance.
Research is half the fun.


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## 170-3tree (Nov 4, 2014)

MP81 said:


> Definitely go drive one, you won't be disappointed. '09+ got no-lift-shift, as well.



I think that's crazy. The interior of the mini is poor compared to a cobalt? Never would have described it that way. I went and test drove a TC cobalt and hated the interior. Felt like everything was falling apart, like every GM car from the 2000's It might be faster on a road course, but in autocross they get beat up by stock base mini all day long on most course designs.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

170-3tree said:


> I think that's crazy. The interior of the mini is poor compared to a cobalt? Never would have described it that way. I went and test drove a TC cobalt and hated the interior. Felt like everything was falling apart, like every GM car from the 2000's It might be faster on a road course, but in autocross they get beat up by stock base mini all day long on most course designs.


I did perceived quality for automotive interiors for three years, so judging interior quality was _my job_ for that time. 

The older minis had an absolute *garbage* interior (my boss there had one, and it was always a topic of discussion). Sharp parting lines, poor fitment of (too many) parts, terrible ergonomics, inconsistent/large gaps, poor flushness conditions, and just as much hard plastic.

Cobalt's aren't great, I'm not saying that - but neither are Minis. 

But what do I know, I only got paid for that...


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> Any upgrades for the brakes on the Diesel Cruze? Or just pads and rotors like EBC or something like that...


The diesel comes with larger brakes from the factory - that said, it shares the same bolt pattern with the ATS, so it's very possible the ATS's Brembos might fit.


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## 170-3tree (Nov 4, 2014)

MP81 said:


> 170-3tree said:
> 
> 
> > I think that's crazy. The interior of the mini is poor compared to a cobalt? Never would have described it that way. I went and test drove a TC cobalt and hated the interior. Felt like everything was falling apart, like every GM car from the 2000's It might be faster on a road course, but in autocross they get beat up by stock base mini all day long on most course designs.
> ...



I'm not sure about older ones, because the mini I've been in were all 2010+ and they're nice, especially compared to every cobalt I've been in. The earlier ones I've worked on in my shop have been neglected by their owners and yeah, my Cruze is a Audi compared to both models.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

for reference the ones i like are 2008 and up. have not driven originals and older ones


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> The diesel comes with larger brakes from the factory - that said, it shares the same bolt pattern with the ATS, so it's very possible the ATS's Brembos might fit.


That would be nice!!!

I have installed a brake upgrade on my MK5 Jetta TDI that uses Porsche Boxster calipers and GTI rotors up front with a simple bracket. It was a relatively cheap upgrade since you can find used take-off Boxster calipers (which are 4-piston monoblock Brembos) on ebay for cheap from Boxster owners that have upgraded them... The car brakes amazingly with that setup. It is very much one of the best braking cars I have ever driven including race cars...

If we could swing something like this for the Cruze that would be a major selling point for me anyhow!!!


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## Camsoup02 (Feb 3, 2016)

How do these compare in dia. to the ZZP kit? Would 17" ECO wheels have sufficient clearance?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

i would not buy that POS zzp kit. the customer service is horrible. i emailed them to see what rotors they use. the sales refused to tell me and argued with me why i need to know. after many angry emails and threatening to call in person told me what they use standard rotors from ither it was a camaro or mustang and they drill the them to proper bolt pattern... well i don't want proprietary brakes. i want to go to the parts store and pick up a shelf rotor whenever.

i have a good relationship with my commercial parts store and i will begin experimenting with diesels brake set up. it would be awesome to ask at lords town, if the brake engineer can maybe let us know what out of the gm parts bucket would fit


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Camsoup02 said:


> How do these compare in dia. to the ZZP kit? Would 17" ECO wheels have sufficient clearance?


Looks like the 17" wheel will work as the diesel model uses them.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> The diesel comes with larger brakes from the factory - that said, it shares the same bolt pattern with the ATS, so it's very possible the ATS's Brembos might fit.


I did a little (very little) searching and by the images I saw for the calipers the ATS uses fixed calipers while the Cruze uses floating calipers. Can anyone confirm?


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Yeah, looks like that's true to me. Does it matter? There are calipers out there that will bolt right up to the Cruze brackets, I know their are.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

CruzeTech said:


> Yeah, looks like that's true to me. Does it matter? There are calipers out there that will bolt right up to the Cruze brackets, I know their are.


Thinking about it some more... it might not matter as long as the 4-piston caliper is properly aligned over the rotor it will not need to float like a single piston that only squeezes from one side since the 4-piston squeezes from both sides...

I wonder if those ATS Brembos will bolt up, that with a set of EBC Red pads would be a big improvement much like what I did on my Jetta TDI.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris Tobin said:


> I did a little (very little) searching and by the images I saw for the calipers the ATS uses fixed calipers while the Cruze uses floating calipers. Can anyone confirm?


Some research shows that the ATS mounting distance is 5.04". That should bolt up to the Cruze.

That is the easy part. Can you get bigger rotors that have the 5x105 pattern? Can you center the rotor in the caliper? Will your wheels fit over?


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris Tobin said:


> Thinking about it some more... it might not matter as long as the 4-piston caliper is properly aligned over the rotor it will not need to float like a single piston that only squeezes from one side since the 4-piston squeezes from both sides...


Both sides move on the floating caliper. While the caliper is fixed on the mounting side, the piston does the moving.
That makes the floating caliper more forgiving when you are trying to center the disc.

With a fixed caliper you Must center the disc in the opening. With a little slop. With the Cobalt's Brembo's that meant shimming the caliper, the rotor and the wheel.
YMMV.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Champagne Jam said:


> Some research shows that the ATS mounting distance is 5.04". That should bolt up to the Cruze.
> 
> That is the easy part. Can you get bigger rotors that have the 5x105 pattern? Can you center the rotor in the caliper? Will your wheels fit over?


Is that for the standard Cruze or the Cruze Diesel? If they will bolt on the rest is pretty easy. Precision machined spacers and bolt length variations will center the caliper over the rotor and even if you are stuck with the stock diameter rotor it will still be a huge improvement in braking performance going from the stock single piston caliper to the Brembo 4-piston and will likely save a bunch of weight too as the stock single piston calipers are likely cast iron rather than aluminum like the Brembos.

I would guess that ATS or ATS V rotors could be used if they are larger in diameter too. If I get a Cruze Diesel, I will for sure look into making an upgrade like this work!!!


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## Cruzncannada (Nov 21, 2015)

This puts it up to 11.8" = 1" bigger rotors right? Plus caliber space,
would 16" fit over this given in another thread someone had said 15" steels wheels fit with there winter? Inch for an inch?


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Champagne Jam said:


> Some research shows that the ATS mounting distance is 5.04". That should bolt up to the Cruze.
> 
> That is the easy part. Can you get bigger rotors that have the 5x105 pattern? Can you center the rotor in the caliper? Will your wheels fit over?


Which year calipers, though? Or do they all fit? Also, keep in mind, they probably need to be drilled. They may be 14mm. I think the Camaro used the same calipers. One of them, if I recall is 12 and one is 14. Can't remember which.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris Tobin said:


> Is that for the standard Cruze or the Cruze Diesel?


5x105 for all Cruze except the diesel which is 5x115.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Champagne Jam said:


> 5x105 for all Cruze except the diesel which is 5x115.


I knew about the bolt pattern, I was talking about the caliper mounts on the spindle. The ATS and Cruze Diesel share the same bolt pattern maybe they can share rotors and calipers too!!! Wouldn't that be great for the diesel guys at least... Then the gasser guys can convert to diesel specs with the take-offs from the diesel guys and the circle will be complete!!! hahaha


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## Camsoup02 (Feb 3, 2016)

Besides sourcing the parts, the only thing that needs to be done is to enlarge the holes on the spindle to 14mm correct? After that, this is essentially a bolt on kit?


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Chris Tobin said:


> I knew about the bolt pattern, I was talking about the caliper mounts on the spindle. The ATS and Cruze Diesel share the same bolt pattern maybe they can share rotors and calipers too!!! Wouldn't that be great for the diesel guys at least... Then the gasser guys can convert to diesel specs with the take-offs from the diesel guys and the circle will be complete!!! hahaha


Not quite that easy. The diesel spindles may not fit the gasser. Because the diesel takes larger axles. The 2 would need to be compared before hand. 



Camsoup02 said:


> Besides sourcing the parts, the only thing that needs to be done is to enlarge the holes on the spindle to 14mm correct? After that, this is essentially a bolt on kit?


Correct. If you're talking about what the OP did to make everything fit. Source all parts and the major mechanical was drilling the holes out. If you're not comfortable doing it. Remove the spindles and take them to a machine shop. Or even buy a set of spindles from the junk yard have them machined and just swap them out during the process.


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## razercruze15 (Feb 15, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> for reference the ones i like are 2008 and up. have not driven originals and older ones


I think Cobalt SS TC against 08+ cooper S is a matter of preference; stock to stock, the cobalt has more power obviously, and is overall a cheaper car to buy and maintain.
The Cooper S however, has better steering IMO, and I would assume a weight advantage. I have driven both, but the cobalt SS drive was 5+ years ago and only short distance.
In my opinion, the Cooper S 08+ has a better interior- at least upon looking. I never judged up close fitment and quality of materials.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Camsoup02 said:


> Besides sourcing the parts, the only thing that needs to be done is to enlarge the holes on the spindle to 14mm correct? After that, this is essentially a bolt on kit?


I used a 35/64" bit on the steering knuckle. Because drilling isn't perfect (even with a drill press) the 14mm bolt fit perfectly. Plus I wanted to keep as much material as possible. The drilling is not hard because the center to center distance is the same and you have a pilot hole to keep you centered.
You need a 1/2" drill with a reduced shank bit (1/2").


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

I tested the old stock spare tire today. It fits over the bigger brakes by about 1/8". The spare is a 16".
Glad I bought another 18" LTZ rim and tire. Cost about $175.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Wonder how and if they'd fit on an Eco. There is a lot of space between the spokes and calipers on the original brakes. And the spokes actually taper out as they go from the center hub to the valve stem. So, I'd hope they would fit. Factory Eco wheels are 17s. 

And Ecos don't come with a spare tire.


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## Menace (Nov 16, 2014)

I installed Brembo's on my Cruze. I just skimmed through this thread, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but the Cruze and the Sonic use the exact same front caliper, and rotor. However, they don't use the same steering knuckle or hub.

Brembo already makes a kit for the Sonic. The question was whether or not the spacing between the caliper mounting point and the hub was the same. We did a test fit with the rotor and caliper and it was perfect, so we went ahead and completed the install. Performed the bedding procedure and they work great.

https://youtu.be/WYdkf4wEQUw

Now, there is a big misunderstanding about big brakes and why they are used. I used to road race and spent a lot of time consulting with a friend who was a brake engineer for StopTech. The only reason race cars use big brakes are for heat dissipation. A properly engineered big brake kit for a street car maintains the OEM pressure-torque relationship, so you aren't actually increasing your front stopping force. A poorly engineered system will either increase the front stopping force, which to make a long story shorter will increase your stopping distance, or decrease the front and make it rear bias which we know isn't good.

My point to all of this is please do not mix and match rotors and calipers from other vehicles unless you know they are an exact match. Increasing just the rotor size will increase the effective radius of the rotor which changes the pressure-torque relationship, and a caliper with a different size piston will do the same.

Brembo is a reputable company and does a good job engineering their systems. My friend double checked and the Brembo system is within 95% of the stock brakes and the 5% can be made up with swapping pad compounds around. Hope this helps, and please don't think I'm bagging on you for your modification. I'm a huge fan of making things work when not a lot of options are available. I just don't want to see anyone get hurt.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Menace said:


> https://youtu.be/WYdkf4wEQUw
> A properly engineered big brake kit for a street car maintains the OEM pressure-torque relationship, so you aren't actually increasing your front stopping force. A poorly engineered system will either increase the front stopping force, which to make a long story shorter will increase your stopping distance, or decrease the front and make it rear bias which we know isn't good.


You make a very good point here. The stock LTZ weighs 3206 lbs and more with a real spare. The diesel is 3471 lbs and has the larger brakes. 265 lbs is one friend.
Why? The stock brakes were a trade off between cost and safety. I'm sure your Stop Tech friend would agree. Cripes the Eco has drums in the rear.
I have a back round in SCCA road courses. Sears point, Thunder hill and Laguna seca. Yes the heat decrease is good, but on a road course if the car ahead loses their nerve, no brakes on the planet will keep you from hitting them. I know my stopping distance has decreased. Has the bias changed? You betcha. Since the front does 70% of the work, not by much. I still have the same master cylinder pushing on the same caliper. Only the pad swept area has changed.

Hey, I'm starting to like this forum, got some smart people here. I have a feeling that the "New factory engine flash" has some changes influenced by Trifecta and BNR. They wouldn't steal from you guys, would they?


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Menace said:


> I installed Brembo's on my Cruze. I just skimmed through this thread, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but the Cruze and the Sonic use the exact same front caliper, and rotor. However, they don't use the same steering knuckle or hub.
> 
> Brembo already makes a kit for the Sonic. The question was whether or not the spacing between the caliper mounting point and the hub was the same. We did a test fit with the rotor and caliper and it was perfect, so we went ahead and completed the install. Performed the bedding procedure and they work great.
> 
> ...


Well, someone finally spent the $3,000 for the brakes. Good write up, as well. Thanks for the video. How do they look with the wheels installed?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

i concur with the large statement. back in the 2000's you use to see lambos and ferrari with massive 8-10 piston calipers... well after more research and f1 experience bremo dialed it down to an optimal of 6

the new guys at autocross spend huge $ on brake upgrades but don't realize that the #1 killer of breaks on the track is overheating. Also #2 is tires!! if you have massive 16 inch rotors and 6 pistons grabbing it with a adjustable master cylinder it does no good if you run skinny tires with no grip. As long as your calipers can lock up the wheels at most speeds your good( THE PROBLEM LIES IF THEY CAN DO IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN); you don't need bigger you need more efficient brakes .


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

so has anyone else done the buick encore brake swap? I'm thinking of this upgrade fairly cheap. I really would like to have a dual piston aluminum caliper but at a low cost. Like others said it's a trial & error process sprinkled with money. Great write up too. has anyone seen braided brake lines too?


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

Champagne Jam said:


> Now for the parts list and cost.
> 2 ultra premium rotors from NAPA UP 881025 $94x2=$188
> 1 set ultra premium pad also from NAPA UP SS SS8667M $87
> 2 sets of caliper bolts from NAPA Up 64501 $5
> ...


I was looking at those caliper brackets & I think the part number is the same as the cruze. here is a link from gmparts com

FRONT BRAKES for 2014 Chevrolet Cruze


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

I think gmparts site is wrong my bad FRONT BRAKES for 2015 Buick Encore


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## Menace (Nov 16, 2014)

CruzeTech said:


> Well, someone finally spent the $3,000 for the brakes. Good write up, as well. Thanks for the video. How do they look with the wheels installed?


CruzeTech, the stock wheels hide them a bit


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Menace said:


> CruzeTech, the stock wheels hide them a bit
> 
> View attachment 187865
> 
> ...


About 3 years ago i bought that set of brembo's for my old Cruze, a silver RS like yours, but at the time, the kit was quite recent and i had to wait a long time to get them and pay a surcharge of 560$ for delivery where i live, so i canceled my order.

Happy to see that they actualy fit and they look nice!


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

It's been over 1,000 miles on the new brakes. In hard braking there is a notable improvement. That was to be expected because of increased braking surface. What has surprised me is the every day driving. The brakes seem to have more finesse. In most situations a light touch is all that is needed. Over all I am very satisfied by the swap. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I used premium parts because I am keeping this car for years and it only had 25k miles on it.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

I just hit 16K on my 2014 ltz I priced out things but I think I'm going to use the GM rotors. Price from GM parts direct $257.27 this id for rotors ,bracket shields & shipping. I need to go to a few shops & bother them to look at the pads like you mentioned. more surface= more braking.. PS that price is with shipping. I use to ship parts for a GM warehouse from taunton,ma. & use to have a few connections on prices just as GM part direct minus the shipping cost. GM closed that place yrs ago not it's a booze warehouse


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Update to the brake upgrade. Two different highway situations. 
In the first one highway traffic came to a halt, I didn't know this because of the big truck in front of me. The increased stopping power was greatly appreciated, the increased heart rate was not. 
The second was an accident two lanes over. It pealed the diamond plate step off a double cab pickup. Threw it into the air where it hit the car in the lane next to me. This massive piece of metal then spun into my lane 40 feet ahead of me. Rush hour traffic so there was no where to go, even if I wanted to stop. So I ran the thing over, it mad one heck of a nasty sound. Power steering light comes on, it had torn the wiring.
Upon further inspection it had also torn up the front bumper cover and some of the plastic underneath. The car steers very hard without the power steering working, you are fighting the electric motor. Not fun. I was able to repair the wiring by going through the wheel well. Solder and shrink tubed, then new wiring loom to protect.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Champagne Jam said:


> Update to the brake upgrade. Two different highway situations.
> In the first one highway traffic came to a halt, I didn't know this because of the big truck in front of me. The increased stopping power was greatly appreciated, the increased heart rate was not.
> The second was an accident two lanes over. It pealed the diamond plate step off a double cab pickup. Threw it into the air where it hit the car in the lane next to me. This massive piece of metal then spun into my lane 40 feet ahead of me. Rush hour traffic so there was no where to go, even if I wanted to stop. So I ran the thing over, it mad one heck of a nasty sound. Power steering light comes on, it had torn the wiring.
> Upon further inspection it had also torn up the front bumper cover and some of the plastic underneath. The car steers very hard without the power steering working, you are fighting the electric motor. Not fun. I was able to repair the wiring by going through the wheel well. Solder and shrink tubed, then new wiring loom to protect.


Scary to hear about the flying metal... glad to hear it did not end worse and you were able to drive away even if it took more effort...


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

did you take down a plate number and photos and make a insurance claim? he/she is responsible for a side step coming off.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Didn't know there is such a thing as a licensed mechanic, do have to be a certified mechanic to work on airplanes with schooling and three years OJT. Just happen to be a FAA certified avionics tech. But while I can write off the equipment for removal and installation, that has to be written off by a certified AP mechanic.

Where do you get this stuff written off in your log book on your vehicle? You are also held liable,so better do it right and once. 

88 Supra has huge brakes, can stop from 60 to 0 mph in less than 90 feet. But if driving neck to neck with a semi that requires over 500 feet a couple of miles over the limit, it will be I that gets the speeding ticket, not him. 

Oh, shop rates for working on aircraft are like 50 bucks per hour and have very highly skilled people working on your plane. Have some dealers in town charging 125 bucks per hour and for that getting a complete idiot working on your vehicle.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

So I noticed a couple references that the 16" spare fit the upgraded brakes. Was this a full size spare that was being used? I've got the stock 16" aluminum LT/RS wheels and would definitely like to do this upgrade. Front rotors on this are warped anyways.


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## Evofire (Oct 3, 2013)

will these fit over standard 2lt 16 inch wheels?


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

The step owner was 3 lanes over. I never saw him. I have made the accident report and insurance claim. I am waiting the the NHP to come and have a look at the car. The crash next to and behind me slowed the highway to a crawl for over an hour.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Evofire said:


> will these fit over standard 2lt 16 inch wheels?


I don't know about the 16's but the stamped metal spare fit over. Just barely. The quickest check would be to try mounting your wheel on the Buick encore, same bolt pattern.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

if someone looks @ the encore spare part number is & is the same as craze then it fits


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

Champagne Jam said:


> Evofire said:
> 
> 
> > will these fit over standard 2lt 16 inch wheels?
> ...


Guess I'll go "test drive" a encore at the dealer next week.


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## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

Very cool. I want to do this now.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

what's driving it going to do w/ the factory rims on it? let us know how it rides too


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

You test drive it home and swap a wheel.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

Well I still haven't got my Cruze back for the new trans so I'll have to go next Tuesday to see how well stock 16's will fit on an encore. 1/8" is pretty tight if it's the same as the spare steelie. Definitely not planning on upgrading to 17s or 18s either. At that point I would just get upgraded pads and rotors for it.


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## Evofire (Oct 3, 2013)

1/8 is plenty. i could barely fit a credit card between my wilwoods and my 17s on my sunfire.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

Well I got a '16 Chevy Trax as a rental since the cruze is in for a water pump. Found out that they're still using the same caliper brackets for the '16 trax as the '13 encore. And the stock wheels are 16s with the brake system and they fit. Think I will be ordering some parts over the weekend for the swap.


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## gyrfalcon (Dec 27, 2013)

You mention the dust shields might be similar to a cruze diesel? Does the diesel already have larger rotors?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

gyrfalcon said:


> You mention the dust shields might be similar to a cruze diesel? Does the diesel already have larger rotors?


Yes, it does.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

gyrfalcon said:


> You mention the dust shields might be similar to a cruze diesel? Does the diesel already have larger rotors?


The dust shields I used "Are" from the diesel Cruze. Yes it does have the larger rotors, but with a different bolt pattern. So you cannot use the diesel rotors unless you also change the hubs. The dust shields make the upgrade, it looks stock.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

Just ordered everything from GMpartsdirect. Used the updated parts numbers for the rotors and pads for the trax, which are different suppliers. Came out to $263.27. Can't wait to get these put on.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

Well attempted to put on the new parts and GMParts Direct sent the wrong rotors. Completely wrong numbers. Was forced to buy aftermarket. After that everything went together and have the stock 16" wheels on it.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

lonewolf04 said:


> Well attempted to put on the new parts and GMParts Direct sent the wrong rotors. Completely wrong numbers. Was forced to buy aftermarket. After that everything went together and have the stock 16" wheels on it.


so was the part number listed in this upgrade right? 

could you sent back those rotors to GM? 
how do they feel? better stopping power? 
thanks for that update & that sucks getting the wrong parts.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

bostonboy said:


> lonewolf04 said:
> 
> 
> > Well attempted to put on the new parts and GMParts Direct sent the wrong rotors. Completely wrong numbers. Was forced to buy aftermarket. After that everything went together and have the stock 16" wheels on it.
> ...


Ive already initiated the return with GMPartsDirect.com. This was their mistake by sending me the wrong rotors from what I ordered, part number not even close! I've never had to deal with them on returns so I'll find out Monday. They aren't open on weekends.

I ordered GM# 23118342 for the rotors, instead of what earlier Buick encores used GM# 13502060 (ACDelco# 177-1136). The price difference was $55 vs $77 each. The one I ordered are made in Mexico vs Korea for the more expensive. I haven't heard much good of the parts coming out of Korea for GM and the price difference sealed the deal. Unfortunately I had to settle for some cheap carquest rotors since I had the car apart and it needed brakes. 

Brake pads I ordered GM# 23242201. 

All other GM part numbers listed originally is what I ordered. 

Cost me $26 locally to source the 35/64" drill bit. Still, coming in at just under $300 for upgraded brakes is a steal and well worth it in my opinion. 

Stopping power is greatly improved as the rotor itself is basically an inch taller in diameter, so it's able to push the caliper out 1/2" further for greater leverage. Not only that, the brake pads are 1/4"-3/8" taller as well for more surface area for braking.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

also did you change the rotor splash shield too? I have to get on this upgrade. why just cause


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

for the guys who did this upgrade big question. the bolt that hold the caliper bracket to the spindle is not the same one that is used for the original caliper bracket? right LOL this is why a bigger hole was drilled because that bracket uses a bigger bolt AKA a 14 MM bolt? & if yes what lenth size & TPI??? Last question. In the original write up it says he got new caliper bolt slide pins? Is this correct? I looked up part numbers & I think the encore & cruze use the same caliber slide pin bolts? to get list rotors, pads, caliper brackets, new bolt for caliper bracket, bigger dust shields. thanks to every1 WOO HOO


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

Yes I changed the splash shields with the numbers in the original post. You will have to take the wheel bearings out to remove the old splash shields for the new rotors anyways, so the $25 total to replace them with the correct size isn't much and makes it look stock. 

Yes, you do need to drill out for the larger bolts. There is no tapping of anything though because the threads are in the new caliper brackets. You just drill the steering knuckle out to the 35/64 drill size and the new caliper bracket mounting bolts slide right through. If you were asking what the bolt size is I didn't pay attention. It's only like $14 for 4 correct bolts that are made for it, which are anti-corrosion with thread lock already applied. 

As far as the caliper slide pins, they are the same and mine were not corroded and moved freely. I just wiped down and put new grease on them and reused.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

Ok thanks for the quick descriptive reply. I ask all these questions because when I lookup those numbers @ Gm parts direct they say they are for the verano & cruzebut all makes & models from diesel cruze to the 2.0 verano. I think thecruze diesel has bigger rotors than a 1.4 turbo stock. So is it an error on GMdirect site? Here are a few links & once again thanks for input guys

Dust shields #13324458 at $12 and #13324459 at $13

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oe-gm/13324459

SPLASH SHIELD - 2013 Buick Encore (95286840)

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/buick/encore/95286840/2013-year/base-trim/1-4l-l4-gas-engine/brakes-cat/brake-components-scat/?part_name=splash-shield

PS: I think I got the part number for the new caliperbracket bolt from GM 11546339 that we would need for this upgrade
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-GENUINE-GM-OEM-DISC-BRAKE-CALIPER-BRACKET-MOUNTING-BOLT-11546339-/361450180898?hash=item54281c1122:g:~uoAAOSwAuNW7h0H&vxp=mtr


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

There is everything you need. The splash shields are for a diesel Cruze from what was said earlier in this thread, everything else is Encore/Trax parts. They may be common with other GM vehicles as well, but that's what I know works.


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## jenymai (Jun 27, 2016)

Not so fast. The mounting holes are the right distance center to center but the Encore bracket uses 14mm bolts. The mounting holes will need to be drilled to accommodate. The drill I used is 35/64" just under the 14mm size. Because the drilling process is never perfect, this size drill bit was perfect. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO TAKE THIS STEP, STOP RIGHT NOW. You also need a socket for the large nut on the axle in 32mm.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

I hope last question what's the difference from these rotors part number 13502060 $77.52 & 23118342 $55.82?? they both fit the chevy trax. I think GM rotors come in a painted coated & non-coated rotors. is this the difference from these two? 

ROTOR | Genuine GM | 13502060

ROTOR | Genuine GM | 23118342


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Look into using the high quality EBC Brake rotors. Nothing against GM, but they do buy from the lowest bidder. Everything I have ever used from EBC has been top quality and I will be installing EBC pads and rotors on my Cruze and my son's TDI soon.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

jenymai said:


> Not so fast. The mounting holes are the right distance center to center but the Encore bracket uses 14mm bolts. The mounting holes will need to be drilled to accommodate. The drill I used is 35/64" just under the 14mm size. Because the drilling process is never perfect, this size drill bit was perfect. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO TAKE THIS STEP, STOP RIGHT NOW. You also need a socket for the large nut on the axle in 32mm.


This is has been covered multiple times if you would read.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

bostonboy said:


> I hope last question what's the difference from these rotors part number 13502060 $77.52 & 23118342 $55.82?? they both fit the chevy trax. I think GM rotors come in a painted coated & non-coated rotors. is this the difference from these two?
> 
> ROTOR | Genuine GM | 13502060
> 
> ROTOR | Genuine GM | 23118342


I already covered this several posts before and I stated that they are the same coated rotor. The more expensive one is from Korea, the cheaper one is from Mexico. Talking closely with parts reps I have not heard much good of parts coming from Korea.


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## bostonboy (Apr 8, 2015)

lonewolf04 said:


> I already covered this several posts before and I stated that they are the same coated rotor. The more expensive one is from Korea, the cheaper one is from Mexico. Talking closely with parts reps I have not heard much good of parts coming from Korea.


I don't know how I missed that whole write up. maybe to many pages up on my screen @ once. I reread it it was a no brainer. thanks again.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> Look into using the high quality EBC Brake rotors. Nothing against GM, but they do buy from the lowest bidder. Everything I have ever used from EBC has been top quality and I will be installing EBC pads and rotors on my Cruze and my son's TDI soon.


all my race and street bikes have ebc on them.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> all my race and street bikes have ebc on them.


It's good stuff for sure!!! I've been very happy with their products and so have many guys I know.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

EBC definitely has good parts. I had their pads on my motorcycle. For people looking to order the factory parts I thought it would be nice to know what can be used since they weren't posted in the original post.


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## Mr_Ramsey (May 31, 2016)

Set I went with, rotor same size a OEM, but it sure feels better that the O.E


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

7,500 mile update. Lots of mixed driving. From a run to Portland from Reno up I5 to twisty 2 lane. A good amount of city driving.
Very happy with the brakes, no issues noted. Long down hill stretches with confidence. Thanks to all the people who liked this thread and also the ones who viewed the thread.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

10,000 miles on the brake upgrade now. I don't even think about the brakes. They are a seamless part of the car and driving experience. That is the best possible outcome. If every time you drive, you get reminded that there is a change. That would ruin the swap. I am thinking that they will out last the stock setup because of the increased pad and rotor area. Cheers!


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## PAChevyCruze (May 29, 2016)

Not sure if the 16" spare you mentioned was a full size spare or not, so just wanted to make sure if these bigger brakes fit with the stock 16" LT rims. I need new rotors so I may try this mod.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

The spare tire I used was the stock cruze 16" compact spare.
Hope this helps.


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

PAChevyCruze said:


> Not sure if the 16" spare you mentioned was a full size spare or not, so just wanted to make sure if these bigger brakes fit with the stock 16" LT rims. I need new rotors so I may try this mod.


I'm running the stock 16" wheels with the brake upgrade. They work just fine and no interference.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

lonewolf04 said:


> I'm running the stock 16" wheels with the brake upgrade. They work just fine and no interference.


That is good to know.
How did the upgrade go? Do you have anything to add for people making the swap?


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## minnesotafats13 (Sep 11, 2013)

I just wanted to jump in here and let everyone know that the caliper carriers are backordered across the US. First, I checked with GM Part Direct and in typical fashion they screwed up. They didn't let me know they were backordered. I then went to my local dealership and had them check across the nation and found two places in California that had them. I then scoured the internet looking on eBay, Amazon, etc. only to have them get crushed in shipping from the one place that had them. I ended up having to buy calipers and carriers from a salvage yard for a lot more than I wanted to. That would be part number 13372779 for those following along. I am still coming in under the $400 quoted here, but I was hoping to be all in for around $260.


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## wasney (Mar 3, 2015)

I am surprised that no one is using the Centrix rotors off Rock Auto. I will be doing this soon, but will use those rotors and pads. The cost of those alone will make it quite a bit cheaper.


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## CombatEngineerMic (Mar 4, 2017)

Champagne Jam said:


> Before making any changes to your car you must have the skills and the tools. If you don't have both, have your licensed auto mechanic do the work. No exceptions. Brakes are a life and death situation. Going is optional, stopping is mandatory.
> 
> Thanks to the Sonic forum for much research on this swap. The most aggravating part of getting bigger brakes for the Cruze is the bolt pattern of 5x105. There are a lot of options open if you want to change your hubs to a larger bolt pattern. I did not want to change mostly because of having 5 wheels and tires in the stock pattern. Getting a spare wheel and tire in the 18" LTZ stock configuration cost me about $200. I added about 3 inches of hard foam to the tire well to make a stock rim and tire fit. Some cutting of the carpet mat was also required.
> 
> ...


So did you only do this to the front brakes and not the rears?? If so just curious as to why and can this be done to the rear as well?? Maybe I missed where you did this all the way around, just checking your parts list and only saw 2 rotors. Thanks


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

CombatEngineerMic said:


> So did you only do this to the front brakes and not the rears?? If so just curious as to why and can this be done to the rear as well?? Maybe I missed where you did this all the way around, just checking your parts list and only saw 2 rotors. Thanks


The LTZ has disc brakes in the rear. The tricky part to upgrading the rear is the parking brake setup. If you spot something that will work, I would love to see it.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

The swap has 15,000 miles on it now. Not a lot of dust from the pads. I am hearing that the caliper brackets are more difficult to get now. If you want to do the swap, you might want to check availability first.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

CruzeTech, did you ever find a Brembo or Willwood caliper that fits?


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Champagne Jam said:


> CruzeTech, did you ever find a Brembo or Willwood caliper that fits?


Nope, never. And I traded my 14 in for a 17 Premier Hatch. Sorry for the late reply. Post got buried. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

I've got almost 50k miles on my conversion joys of 150 mile round trip to work every day. I would not hesitate to do it again if I sold my current Cruze and got a different one.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

It has now been 22 months and 21K miles on the swap. My only complaint is a little brake dust on the front rims. Of all the conversions I have done over the years, this has been the most satisfying. 18K views of this thread? Unreal. Thank folks! Rob


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

So Chevy now has the performance upgrade brake package PART NO. 23261507.
This kit has both front and rear calipers, painted red with logos. Rotors and shields. Pads and hardware.
They do not fit the first gen cruze. Anyone know why? It is $1100 but can be had for around $860.
I am guessing it is the 14mm bolts vs the 12mm stock ones.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Two years and eight months, 30K+ miles on the swap. The pads have plenty of life left. 50% or more. 48K+ views on this thread. Am I wrong in thinking it should be a sticky? What say you all?


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## lonewolf04 (May 6, 2016)

Sticky it! Been riding for 60k+ miles after my swap and well worth the price. Wouldn't own another without doing this mod.


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## bsb2001ca (Jan 16, 2016)

I just did the swap as the OP mentions. I went with new calipers instead of just the brackets, but other than a little bit of work, they feel way better than the old ones, but new pads will do that anyways. I have a small family trip coming up. I’ll know then if they feel better. Otherwise good post OP.
EDIT: I have the steel 16” wheels. No problems with clearance. Little snug, but nothing to worry about at all. Lots of room!


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

bsb2001ca said:


> I just did the swap as the OP mentions. I went with new calipers instead of just the brackets, but other than a little bit of work, they feel grannies than the old ones, but new pads will do that anyways. I have a small family trip coming up. I’ll know then if they feel better. Otherwise good post OP.
> EDIT: I have the steel 16” wheels. No problems with clearance. Little snug, but nothing to worry about at all. Lots of room!


grannies?


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## bsb2001ca (Jan 16, 2016)

Omg, auto correct. Feels great! Not grannies


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## TopazRS87 (Dec 29, 2013)

On an LS or 1LT with rear drums, would this upgrade throw off the brake balance significantly? Getting close to needing front brakes on my 1LT again and would like some added stopping power as the stock setup is not confidence inspiring by any means.


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## bsb2001ca (Jan 16, 2016)

TopazRS87 said:


> On an LS or 1LT with rear drums, would this upgrade throw off the brake balance significantly? Getting close to needing front brakes on my 1LT again and would like some added stopping power as the stock setup is not confidence inspiring by any means.


I did this with drum brakes on the rear. As long as your drum adjusters are properly lubed and brakes adjusted in the back, I think it compliments the brake setup.


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

just an FIY, ZZP has the bigger rotor and dual piston caliper setup for $450 shipped right now. Just a couple bucks more and you can have stronger/lighter calipers


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

eddiefromcali said:


> just an FIY, ZZP has the bigger rotor and dual piston caliper setup for $450 shipped right now. Just a couple bucks more and you can have stronger/lighter calipers


"Stronger"?..... In what way? Are you claiming the caliper itself is stronger/stiffer? There's loads of 5th gen Corvette and Camaro guys that would vehemently disagree. Pad taper wear and caliper spreading is a pretty common occurrence.

Are you driving a Cruze hard enough to do this? 99% of us aren't, but that doesn't change the fact that the Encore/Trax caliper is stiffer. You also have the added benefit of being able to buy over the counter brake parts anywhere you need them and not have worry about modifying things.


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> "Stronger"?..... In what way? Are you claiming the caliper itself is stronger/stiffer? There's loads of 5th gen Corvette and Camaro guys that would vehemently disagree. Pad taper wear and caliper spreading is a pretty common occurrence.
> 
> Are you driving a Cruze hard enough to do this? 99% of us aren't, but that doesn't change the fact that the Encore/Trax caliper is stiffer. You also have the added benefit of being able to buy over the counter brake parts anywhere you need them and not have worry about modifying things.



relax, chief...im talking dual piston vs single and it being aluminum making it lighter. Havent compared pad surface area of an F-body caliper vs a cruze, but Id assume theyre bigger? Not gonna claim that for certain though.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

The ZZP kit is not complete. No shields for instance. What size bolts? Were did they source the calipers? Hmm...


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## bsb2001ca (Jan 16, 2016)

I think somewhere in the previous posts it had stated that someone needed rotors only or pads only and ZZP wouldn’t give out part numbers to buy over the counter pads and rotors and they wouldn’t separate them. And this option also allows anybody to just order something if the calipers fail while on a road trip, just stop and say they’re for the Buick


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

bsb2001ca said:


> I think somewhere in the previous posts it had stated that someone needed rotors only or pads only and ZZP wouldn’t give out part numbers to buy over the counter pads and rotors and they wouldn’t separate them. And this option also allows anybody to just order something if the calipers fail while on a road trip, just stop and say they’re for the Buick


rotors would be the only issue, but calipers are stock f-body calipers, no secret there...you can just stop and say theyre for the camaro


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

F-body calipers? What about the brackets? Do they bolt up to the Cruze?


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

Champagne Jam said:


> F-body calipers? What about the brackets? Do they bolt up to the Cruze?


they must if that's what they advertise


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

They say they have brackets. They do not say if they are stock.


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

Champagne Jam said:


> They say they have brackets. They do not say if they are stock.


not sure what you want to find out or prove here. I'm just stating the fact that for a lil more money, you don't have to permanently modify your spindles and you get dual piston/light calipers. Dust shields are not included, but aren't necessary in this kit nor the one OP posted. 

This is off ZZPs kit










looks like the same brackets on an autozone caliper for an LS1 Camaro to me









Link to said caliper 
https://www.autozone.com/brakes-and...cketed-brake-caliper-front/564341_341018_5913


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Thanks for the research on this. I'm concerned about the mounting bolt distance and bolt size. This caliper fits the fourth gen camero, but not the third. What I am trying to do is make sure nobody buys the wrong caliper. And which version of the f body caliper we need.
Thanks again for this info.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

They specify a 12" rotor. We'll call that 305mm. The friction height on a Camaro pad is about 52mm or so.
The area of a ring with an outer diameter of 305mm and an inner diameter of 253mm is 41,331mm².

The Trax rotor is 300mm, and the friction height is about 58mm. The area of a ring with an outer diameter of 300mm and an inner diameter of 242mm is 44095mm²

The Trax rotors have a larger swept area.

Trax caliper has a 60mm piston, or 2827mm² surface area.

Camaro caliper has dual 45mm pistons, or 3180mm²

The larger piston area means for any given pressure applied at the pedal, a higher pressure will result at the caliper. This comes at the expense of pedal travel(it will travel farther and feel lighter) and altered front rear brake ratio/bias


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

I am the OP. I used shields for the same reason the factory did. Never the less, what is the center to center distance of the caliper bracket mounting holes?


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## drspencer (Jun 19, 2019)

Does anyone have the caliper bracket dimensions? Looking like 5.040 on the Gen 4 Camaro stuff. Measurements taken from An S-10 forum. I can’t post the link due to low post count but if you google

ls1, firebird / camaro front disc swap bracket plans, drawing updated 3-23!!!

It should turn up the image for someone’s drawing.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> add in some motul or brembo racing fluid, some coil overs, a whiteline rear sway bard and presto fun fun cruze


I have added the Whiteline shock tower bar and the rear swaybar. Also the Moog steel end links, replacing the plastic ones.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Champagne Jam said:


> I have added the Whiteline shock tower bar and the rear swaybar. Also the Moog steel end links, replacing the plastic ones.


Whiteline makes a strut bar? Or do you mean Ultra Racing? I have the Whiteline sway bar and a few UR bars and am lovin it!
















ls1, firebird / camaro front disc swap bracket plans...


i made my own brackets and decided id post the "cad" plans here. i couldnt find a decent drawing anywhere for these. so here ya go. mad paint skillz.... these should work for any RWD blazer or truck, stock or lowered/lifted spindles as long as they have the dust shield bolt bosses. you can...




www.s10forum.com


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Blasirl said:


> Whiteline makes a strut bar? Or do you mean Ultra Racing? I have the Whiteline sway bar and a few UR bars and am lovin it!


Oops, upon further review, it is an Ultra strut bar. So many mods, so little time.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Champagne Jam said:


> Oops, upon further review, it is an Ultra strut bar. So many mods, so little time.


Ain't that.the truth!


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## drspencer (Jun 19, 2019)

For the record. Camaro caliper bracket bolt holes are the same distance apart as ours. So should work great but still gotta bleed the brakes


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

I had a problem with pedal pulsing after 35k miles. A trip to O'reillys and a quick pass on the brake lathe, problem solved. Feels like new again. The tech said there were a few small high spots.


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## drspencer (Jun 19, 2019)

So, uh, a 12mm helicoil has a 14mm external diameter. I just drilled and installed 12mm helicoils in the Buick brackets last night. Going to install tomorrow and crank down to 80lb ft on the caliper bracket bolt. I'll report back. If it holds 80ft lbs, no reason why it wouldn't be just as strong. That's kinda the purpose of helicoils. This would avoid the use of drilling a larger hole in the spindle or using Camaro calipers and having to bleed the brakes.


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## drspencer (Jun 19, 2019)

Well. It works! Drilled and tapped for a 12mm Helicoil on the bigger bracket and tightened the caliper bolts down to 80ft lbs. seems to be just fine. Higher speed stopping does “feel” improved.


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## Spectralwolf (Jan 18, 2020)

I know this is an old thread, and I'm a new user on this forum, but just want to know before I order parts:
Everything sounds excellent as far as the conversion, but just want clarification on whether or not a factory 4th gen Camaro caliper and caliper bracket will work on this without having to fabricate any adapters or clearance issues. I like the twin piston calipers, and have been using Power Stop red powder coated calipers on all of the cars for the past several years. 
Thank you in advance for any info y'all can provide


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## drspencer (Jun 19, 2019)

Yes, they will fit. The caliper bolt hole dimensions are the same. Must run at least a 17" wheel.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

I have not had good luck with the helicoil system. I would recomend the time-sert system for any threads under load.
++ TIME-SERT Official Threaded inserts for stripped threads, blown out sparkplugs, . The metric kits in various sizes and lengths are here. ++ TIME-SERT Metric Kits ++ thread repair kits and inserts repair stripped threads damaged threads repaired threads threaded inserts for metal thread inserts for metal aluminum inserts threaded inserts for aluminum When I watched my mechanic use this system on a Porsche aluminum engine case, I was sold.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Spectralwolf said:


> I know this is an old thread, and I'm a new user on this forum, but just want to know before I order parts:
> Everything sounds excellent as far as the conversion, but just want clarification on whether or not a factory 4th gen Camaro caliper and caliper bracket will work on this without having to fabricate any adapters or clearance issues. I like the twin piston calipers, and have been using Power Stop red powder coated calipers on all of the cars for the past several years.
> Thank you in advance for any info y'all can provide


Welcome Aboard!

Don't forget to introduce yourself and your Cruze here.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

drspencer said:


> Well. It works! Drilled and tapped for a 12mm Helicoil on the bigger bracket and tightened the caliper bolts down to 80ft lbs. seems to be just fine. Higher speed stopping does “feel” improved.


So, what is the rest of the bracket bolt size designation? I am considering this mod and want to start to purchase items needed before having to take my brakes apart. This is from a fastener companies website and I thought it was useful.

M8-1.0 x 20

Here's what the description means…

M = Metric thread designation
8 = Nominal diameter, in millimeters
1.0 = Pitch (distance from thread to thread), in millimeters
20 = Length, in millimeters _(see below)_
This example illustrates how a coarse threaded screw may appear…

M12 x 25 = 12 mm diameter, coarse thread is assumed (1.75 mm), 25 mm long
M12 is a matching coarse threaded nut
(To avoid confusion, we always include the thread pitch for both coarse and fine metric fasteners.)

Also did you finish this mod? Your version of it anyways? If so what parts did you use?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Blasirl said:


> So, what is the rest of the bracket bolt size designation? I am considering this mod and want to start to purchase items needed before having to take my brakes apart. This is from a fastener companies website and I thought it was useful.
> 
> M8-1.0 x 20
> 
> ...


If you do it please do a write up with photos. My diesels brakes need replacing soon and I’d love to do this


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> If you do it please do a write up with photos. My diesels brakes need replacing soon and I’d love to do this


I think, for the Diesels, someone was installing ATS calipers/rotors, since they have the same lug pattern/hub size...


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I think, for the Diesels, someone was installing ATS calipers/rotors, since they have the same lug pattern/hub size...


Yup they got those brakes in there. I thought this thread was that one. Brembo made calipers from ATS with Impala police rotors


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

It has been almost 5 years since the swap. I am now at 70K miles, minus the 25K when I did it means 45K on the brakes. I did have some pulsing at the pedal about 5K miles ago, a light pass on the rotors at O'Reillys made them smooth again. I noticed some posts talking about the helicoil system. *Please* do not go there, brakes and stopping are far too important. The engineers went with the 14mm bolts for a reason, the forces involved here are nothing to take lightly. This post now has 101K views, I am still surprised by that. I remember the first few dozen, boy it made me smile. I have been a fan of forums of all kinds since one helped me fix a built in microwave. This community is great, so many questions answered, so many topics covered. Thank you to all the commenters and viewers, it's been a great ride!


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

There's nothing wrong with helicoils or timeserts if they are done correctly.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Ma v e n said:


> There's nothing wrong with helicoils or timeserts if they are done correctly.


Not on my brakes. I put my family in this car. Anywhere else? No problem. Timeserts preferred. Why even consider them if a simple drill bit will fix the issue?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I have thousands of families relying on repairs I make.

Id consider them because I'd rather have a properly installed thread insert in a hole intended for a fastener, than drill out a bracket that isn't intended to have a hole that large.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Look at the meat on that piece. It's not the bracket that gets drilled, the bracket has the threads for 14mm. Plus, just how big is the hole for the 12mm insert? C bore data from timesert is .560 larger than the 35/64" I drilled at .546875. And that is on the bracket not the upright.


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Pulsing returned. I replaced the rotors and pads with the powerstop kit. Very nice.








Amazon.com: Power Stop K6793 Front Z23 Carbon Fiber Brake Pads with Drilled & Slotted Brake Rotors Kit : Automotive


Buy Power Stop K6793 Front Z23 Carbon Fiber Brake Pads with Drilled & Slotted Brake Rotors Kit: Brake Kits - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Champagne Jam said:


> Pulsing returned. I replaced the rotors and pads with the powerstop kit. Very nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was the pulsing due to pad material build up on the rotors?


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Blasirl said:


> Was the pulsing due to pad material build up on the rotors?


It had started pulsing earlier at 70K, I had the rotors turned and that stopped it. When it started again at 75K, I said nope.
I got 50K out of them so no big deal. I saw that there was not much pad left anyway. The new powerstops are great so far.
Now on to finding where the coolant on the garage floor is coming from. Grrr.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Champagne Jam said:


> It had started pulsing earlier at 70K, I had the rotors turned and that stopped it. When it started again at 75K, I said nope.
> I got 50K out of them so no big deal. I saw that there was not much pad left anyway. The new powerstops are great so far.
> Now on to finding where the coolant on the garage floor is coming from. Grrr.


I did not go back and read all the posts, so I'll just ask. Did you bed the pads before and now?


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## Champagne Jam (Feb 3, 2016)

Blasirl said:


> I did not go back and read all the posts, so I'll just ask. Did you bed the pads before and now?


I did not post that as I figured everybody knew to do that. The Powerstop pads came with the most extensive list of instructions for bedding to pads I have ever seen. Here are their instructions.

*"Break in your PowerStop Brakes as follows: *
5 moderate to aggressive stops from 40 mph down to 10 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool and do not come to a complete stop. If you’re forced to stop, either shift into neutral or give room in front so you can allow the vehicle to roll slightly while waiting for the light. The rotors will be very hot and holding down the brake pedal will allow the pad to create an imprint on the rotor. This is where the judder can originate from.
Then do 5 moderate stops from 35 mph to 5 mph in rapid succession without letting the brakes cool. You should expect to smell some resin as the brakes get hot.
After this is complete, drive around for as long as possible without excessively heating the brakes and without coming to a complete stop (Try for about 5 minutes at moderate speed). This is the cooling stage. It allows the heated resin in the brake pads to cool and cure.
After the brakes have cooled to standard operating temperature, you may use the brakes normally."

Doing this in any kind of traffic is not easy. Trying to follow the instructions exactly while not pissing off drivers around you. I will head out to the sticks next time.


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