# Need more power



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Strotheide123 said:


> I have a 17 Cruze hatchback lt with the RS package I'm looking to get around 250hp to 300hp is this possible with bolt ons just wondering thanks


If you consider custom turbos and fuel systems "bolt ons".....Absolutely. 

I think 200-225hp is a much more realistic goal, and one that wouldn't cost cubic dollars, or so dramatically shorten the lifespan of the engine and transmission.

The 1.4 just isn't the right platform if 300hp is you're goal and you're not comfortable with fab, experimentation, and expenditure.


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## Strotheide123 (Feb 26, 2019)

Okay thanks trying to really get at least around 250hp looking to make a good sleeper car with it that I can play around with at the track how would I achieve 225hp thanks


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## Strotheide123 (Feb 26, 2019)

Trying to keep up with the Honda's and the Ford focus


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

A tune is your starting point. That will put you ~ 200 HP.

There's not a lot of aftermarket support for the LE2 platform yet (turbos, fueling, etc). Tune, exhausts, intakes, and some suspension stuff exists.


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

Strotheide123 said:


> I have a 17 Cruze hatchback lt with the RS package I'm looking to get around 250hp to 300hp is this possible with bolt ons just wondering thanks


Not with stock pistons, rods, cylinder head, and turbo and still retain reliability.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

2.0 turbo swap like trifecta did lol


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> 2.0 turbo swap like trifecta did lol


When did they put a 2.0T in a gen2?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Ma v e n said:


> When did they put a 2.0T in a gen2?


https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/377-gen2-powertrain/179490-trifecta-2-0l-turbo-300hp-cruze.html


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> Ma v e n said:
> 
> 
> > When did they put a 2.0T in a gen2?
> ...



Uuuummmmm...

That's not what that says...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Ma v e n said:


> Uuuummmmm...
> 
> That's not what that says...


Heh?

They 2.0T swapped a Gen 2.

Here's another one.

https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/377-gen2-powertrain/224537-trifecta-cruze-ss-build.html


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

jblackburn said:


> Heh?
> 
> They 2.0T swapped a Gen 2.
> 
> ...


That's way too involved for most here. In my view, rebuilding/blueprinting the LE2 with quality forged internals, head work, maybe a larger turbo, and of course tuning, is a better way. I see no reason why 350+ HP isn't within reach.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

17Cruzer said:


> That's way too involved for most here. In my view, rebuilding/blueprinting the LE2 with quality forged internals, head work, maybe a larger turbo, and of course tuning, is a better way. I see no reason why 350+ HP isn't within reach.


They used to have a 1.5 liter engine limit in Formula 1 in the 80's. You'd have turbo lag til about 6000 RPM though...


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

jblackburn said:


> They used to have a 1.5 liter engine limit in Formula 1 in the 80's. You'd have turbo lag til about 6000 RPM though...


It depends on the size of the turbo. I think a Borg Warner EFR 62/58 would be a good choice or maybe the next higher size 67/58. No need for a BOV.
https://www.full-race.com/store/borg-warner-efr/turbos-efr-series/borgwarner-efr-6258-turbo/


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

17Cruzer said:


> It depends on the size of the turbo. I think a Borg Warner EFR 62/58 would be a good choice or maybe the next higher size 67/58. No need for a BOV.
> https://www.full-race.com/store/borg-warner-efr/turbos-efr-series/borgwarner-efr-6258-turbo/


I don't know about a "good size" but it's what you'd need to hope to be able to hit 350+hp. ? And you'd have to hit it at pretty much 7000rpm to make the 6258 work. The 6758 is a no go basically, unless you're talking spinning out to 8k for power, and giving up HP over the stock engine at pretty much anywhere below 4500rpm.

350+ down near 6k, is gonna tough, and expensive to make driveable. I'd guess something like the stock turbo compounded with maybe an S252SXE would get the job done, with the stock turbo making stock power til about 3500-4000rpm before the S252 got into it's zone, but compounding is more math than I want to do, ever, and definitely not at 130am. S252SXE could def be a good choice for 3.5-6k rpm if 350hp was the goal. 


Of course we also need to deliver over 200% more fuel somehow....


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

Yup, more airflow, more fuel. The question is; how much air flow can the stock injectors and intake manifold handle? 

Superchargers need rpm to make boost, turbos do not; One can adjust how much boost and at what rpm. Note BNR's HP/Torque numbers. No mention of rpm increase.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

17Cruzer said:


> Yup, more airflow, more fuel. The question is; how much air flow can the stock injectors and intake manifold handle?
> 
> Superchargers need rpm to make boost, turbos do not; One can adjust how much boost and at what rpm. Note BNR's HP/Torque numbers. No mention of rpm increase.


Not quite how it works...turbos need air moving through the exhaust. The bigger the turbo, the more air they need to spool. Tiny turbos need very little which is why the Cruze builds max torque at 2000 rpm. They also don't move a whole lot of CF/M - so good midrange tq, wheezy top end power. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## RDsCruze (Feb 20, 2019)

Anyone put the Summit/KNN-69-4537TS cold air intake on a 18 RS, any issues? I'm in Calif and they wouldn't ship it here, sent to a relative in Ga.


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

jblackburn said:


> Not quite how it works...turbos need air moving through the exhaust. The bigger the turbo, the more air they need to spool. Tiny turbos need very little which is why the Cruze builds max torque at 2000 rpm. They also don't move a whole lot of CF/M - so good midrange tq, wheezy top end power.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I agree the turbo on the LE2 is small and ramps up very quickly but its not capable of flowing enough air to make big HP. A quality turbo like a BorgWarner EFR 62/58 even works well on a 1000 cc engine. Check this out:
https://www.full-race.com/store/borg-warner-efr/turbos-efr-series/borgwarner-efr-6258-turbo/
Scroll down for the video.
10 psi boost.....boost isn't important, its the airflow that matters!


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

17Cruzer said:


> jblackburn said:
> 
> 
> > Not quite how it works...turbos need air moving through the exhaust. The bigger the turbo, the more air they need to spool. Tiny turbos need very little which is why the Cruze builds max torque at 2000 rpm. They also don't move a whole lot of CF/M - so good midrange tq, wheezy top end power.
> ...


Yup, airflow...And to make 350+HP from our little 1.4L you'll likely need somewhere around 525cfm or more.

You take what you need, and do some math involving what you have to get a pressure ratio. Take that pressure ratio and air consumption and look at compressor maps. Pressure ratio is vertical axis, airflow is horizontal. 
See if your intersection is in an appropriate efficiency area. 

Then pop some of that information into a calculator program, and you'll find that a typical 1.4L making 350hp at the crank is gonna be building 30psi+ boost on a turbo with a pressure ratio. Likely over 3.2 and airflow of 525cfm or more. 

If you want power at lower rpm you'll need more boost, if you can sing it out to a higher rpm Hp peak that essentially lowers boost pressure requirements because it changes the pressure ratio.


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

I doubt the stock intake manifold can take 30# of boost. I know the next size EFR 67/58 tops out at 27#, so the 62/58 will be less. Still, it would be a great addition over the stock turbo.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

17Cruzer said:


> I doubt the stock intake manifold can take 30# of boost. I know the next size EFR 67/58 tops out at 27#, so the 62/58 will be less. Still, it would be a great addition over the stock turbo.


I don't know if it will either, but my guess is it will for a little while. But if you're blueprinting the engine and using bespoke forged rods and pistons and a ported head, an alloy intake manifold would be a breeze to do.

The 6758 maxes out at a pressure ratio of 3.4 @72% efficiency. The 6258 at 72% offers a 3.7 ratio. Or ~35psi for the 6758 and over 39psi for the 6258.

If you stick to max efficiency for both compressors, the 6258 will do 29psi(3.7pr) and the 6758 about 23psi(<2.6pr)


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

Your figures are backwards......


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

17Cruzer said:


> Your figures are backwards......


Nope. Not unless BorgWarner has it wrong.


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## 17Cruzer (Apr 18, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> Nope. Not unless BorgWarner has it wrong.
> View attachment 269703
> View attachment 269705


Yup, I was just going over the maps at BW, so I stand corrected. Both EFR's have a wide operating range, capable of producing boost beyond the max efficiency range.


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## 17Cruzin (2 mo ago)

Strotheide123 said:


> Okay thanks trying to really get at least around 250hp looking to make a good sleeper car with it that I can play around with at the track how would I achieve 225hp thanks


Without internal upgrades the pistons and bottom end will not be able to handle it. Fuel tuning is also required. Best bet for bolt on power is a properly tuned exhaust system (vehicle specific) and swapping to an aftermarket air filter. DO NOT get rid of factory air filter box unless it's being replaced with an aftermarket box. I see a lot of tuner's eliminate cold air box which COMPLETELY DESTROYS the concept of cold air intake because it recirculates hot air from the engine compartment. Lol funny stuff... But keep it basic with the 1.4 and you'll be fine.


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