# my dealer not ready for the first oil change



## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

Correct you are. ALWAYS follow what the owners manual says. Atleast thats my advice. Thats how im doing things on my cruze anyway...i guess it doesnt matter what others do to theirs. I suppose if they run into a problem using the wrong fluids, its their problem and they will have to suffer haha.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

chevycruze2012 said:


> Correct you are. ALWAYS follow what the owners manual says. Atleast thats my advice. Thats how im doing things on my cruze anyway...i guess it doesnt matter what others do to theirs. I suppose if they run into a problem using the wrong fluids, its their problem and they will have to suffer haha.


There are some exceptions to this rule. For example, if you live in Canada and you get temperatures below -25C regularly, you're better off with a 0W-30. It won't be DEXOS1 certified and the manual won't recommend it, but your car will last a heck of a lot longer and will start easier. 

In 2012, the owner's manual said the drain for the automatic transmission is 5.8 quarts. Nobody has ever drained more than 4.5. If you never paid attention to what you drained and you re-filled 5.8 quarts, you'd be in trouble. 

In 2012, the replacement interval for spark plugs was 97,500 miles. That has been moved down to 60,000 miles for the 2014 manual. 

The manual recommends running the DEX-COOL antifreeze for 150k miles. However, they do not point out that the antifreeze has a service life of only 5 years, which will usually be reached well before that mileage interval. 

These are some examples of why the owner's manual should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

Seriously? "It should be OK."? Wow that's unacceptable. 

My dealer didn't have the filter at my first oil change. They had to get it from another dealer and told me to come back an hour later. 

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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I would be asking for a free oil change for my inconvenience. If you had just driving in that would be a different story, but you had an appointment and they had the time to look up your VIN and get the correct supplies.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

saturn4663 said:


> I guess I shouldn't be shocked but I had a scheduled appointment. You would think that they would have had the filter and oil in stock. Guess not. What burns me a little I had to ask them if they were going to you a DEXOS2 oil. They said "we have dexos1 it should be ok" I referred them to the manual in my glove box. Which states that DEXOS2 should always be used. If it can't be located ACEA C3 rated oil of the proper grade (5W30) can be used. Needless to say they didnt have ACEA C3 oil either (Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 is a ACEA C3 oil). Sadly I had to schedule another appointment for next weekend in order for them to get the reccomended oil and filter in stock. For eveyone out there just be sure the dealer is doing the right thing. Ask questions and dont accept BS answers like "it will be ok". Remember the real reason they are specifiying this oil is mainly to protect your exhaust emission system which is quite expensive and wont be covered under warranty if you are using the wrong oil.


Another isolated example of really not giving a **** about your job. Someone who gave a **** would of taken the time to look up the diesel information. I'm not dumb enough to think it didn't cross this guy's mind...he was just lazy and didn't care....if it didn't cross his mind, he ought to be fired. He assumed you were dumber and lazier than him based on his answer. Luckily, he was wrong.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

PAO base stock synthetics had a natural pour point depression (e.g. the original Mobil 1) based on the molecular structure of the base stock. Since most synthetics are now not PAO base stock, chemists and chemical engineers (like me) came up with new additives including a pour point depressant for the other types of synthetic base stocks. Just to make sure everyone understands pour point depression, this means the oil stays thin down to very cold temperatures. This, in turn, means that the oil will flow quickly once the engine is started. Here is some reading for those who would rather base their decisions on facts versus enthusiast opinions, such as substituting 0W-30 oil for 5W-30 oil when temperatures below minus 10 Fahrenheit are common in the winter season. No need to take that risk of voiding your warranty. If I read all of the stuff in these links correctly, dexos 1 has a pour point depressant additive. The other additives (additives make up about 30% of a quart of oil in the brands that meet dexos 1 and other current tough standards) include one that helps the oil resist oxidation at high temperatures. Again, this was a natural property of the PAO base stocks. The non-PAO base stocks used for synthetics need that additive also to make everything, how shall I say, equal to the original Mobil 1. Trust technology my friends, not your enthusiast friends, unless they are highly schooled in lubricants technology and engineering.

https://www.oronite.com/products/gf5.asp
GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!
Afton Chemical News - New PCMO Additive Exceeds the GF-5 Requirements


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

obermd said:


> I would be asking for a free oil change for my inconvenience. If you had just driving in that would be a different story, but you had an appointment and they had the time to look up your VIN and get the correct supplies.


I agree but would be frightened by technical competence at that point if they couldn't get something that juvenile right...


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

dexos1 talk in the diesel forum?

its more likely than you think


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> PAO base stock synthetics had a natural pour point depression (e.g. the original Mobil 1) based on the molecular structure of the base stock. Since most synthetics are now not PAO base stock, chemists and chemical engineers (like me) came up with new additives including a pour point depressant for the other types of synthetic base stocks. Just to make sure everyone understands pour point depression, this means the oil stays thin down to very cold temperatures. This, in turn, means that the oil will flow quickly once the engine is started. Here is some reading for those who would rather base their decisions on facts versus enthusiast opinions, such as substituting 0W-30 oil for 5W-30 oil when temperatures below minus 10 Fahrenheit are common in the winter season. No need to take that risk of voiding your warranty. If I read all of the stuff in these links correctly, dexos 1 has a pour point depressant additive. The other additives (additives make up about 30% of a quart of oil in the brands that meet dexos 1 and other current tough standards) include one that helps the oil resist oxidation at high temperatures. Again, this was a natural property of the PAO base stocks. The non-PAO base stocks used for synthetics need that additive also to make everything, how shall I say, equal to the original Mobil 1. Trust technology my friends, not your enthusiast friends, unless they are highly schooled in lubricants technology and engineering.
> 
> https://www.oronite.com/products/gf5.asp
> GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!
> Afton Chemical News - New PCMO Additive Exceeds the GF-5 Requirements


Thread 1: This basically says that dexos 1 has higher standards than gf-5 but that the two Chevron oils being discussed have met the dexos 1 standard, which also means they exceed the gf-5 standard.

Thread 2: Based on your post, this thread should be discounted. We have no knowledge of the author's technical background and given that most journalists can't do math above addition and subtraction his opinion is nothing more than marketing for dexos1 and dexos2.

Thread 3: As in the first thread, this is a marketing blurb for a specific product.

Bottom line, none of these three threads tells the reader anymore about dexos 1 than the [url="http://www.gmdexos.com/]official dexos web site[/url]. Two are nothing more than a marketing blurb and the third one is written by someone who's technical background is unknown and in a profession traditionally void of technical knowledge.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

boraz said:


> dexos1 talk in the diesel forum?
> 
> its more likely than you think


Which is very unfortunate.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Erastimus said:


> Trust technology my friends, not your enthusiast friends, unless they are highly schooled in lubricants technology and engineering.


Yes... research, research and more research should be your best friends.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> PAO base stock synthetics had a natural pour point depression (e.g. the original Mobil 1) based on the molecular structure of the base stock. Since most synthetics are now not PAO base stock, chemists and chemical engineers (like me) came up with new additives including a pour point depressant for the other types of synthetic base stocks. Just to make sure everyone understands pour point depression, this means the oil stays thin down to very cold temperatures. This, in turn, means that the oil will flow quickly once the engine is started. Here is some reading for those who would rather base their decisions on facts versus enthusiast opinions, such as substituting 0W-30 oil for 5W-30 oil when temperatures below minus 10 Fahrenheit are common in the winter season. No need to take that risk of voiding your warranty. If I read all of the stuff in these links correctly, dexos 1 has a pour point depressant additive. The other additives (additives make up about 30% of a quart of oil in the brands that meet dexos 1 and other current tough standards) include one that helps the oil resist oxidation at high temperatures. Again, this was a natural property of the PAO base stocks. The non-PAO base stocks used for synthetics need that additive also to make everything, how shall I say, equal to the original Mobil 1. Trust technology my friends, not your enthusiast friends, unless they are highly schooled in lubricants technology and engineering.
> 
> https://www.oronite.com/products/gf5.asp
> GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!
> Afton Chemical News - New PCMO Additive Exceeds the GF-5 Requirements


A lot of this is stuff I've said and have been saying for a long time. It's the reason I became an AMSOIL dealer to begin with, the reason I took their T-1 certification, and the reason why I'm taking steps toward becoming STLE Lubrication Specialist certified. All in due time of course as that exam is $470 and I have plenty to learn till I am ready to take it. 

All that said, not using a DEXOS1 oil or 5W-30 weight will do absolutely nothing to your warranty thanks to Magnuson-Moss, and I will be more than happy to send anyone's dealership a stern letter reminding them of the law they are required to operate under. I happen to use a PAO/Ester blend in 0W-30 (AMSOIL SS). I have a friend with a Cruze (also an AMSOIL dealer) who has been using the same oil for ~100k miles now as a courier. Not to say anecdotal evidence should be taken as fact, but we both know that all oils thicken when cold; it's just a matter of how much. The less they do so, the better they will flow when the engine is started while cold in those particularly cold conditions. 

The issue with pour point depressants (and other petroleum-specific additives) is depletion. In areas that regularly see temperatures below freezing for extended periods of time, pour point depressants will deplete very quickly due to the petroleum based oil's tendency to crystallize. 

This is so-called synthetic (big name brands made after ~2006) is the hydrocracked oil I referred to. Essentially, this is a highly purified petroleum oil. If it wasn't for the elimination of contaminants found in dino oils, I'd still be calling it a dino oil. Whenever I talk about oils, I always refer to the ones who didn't sell out as "true synthetics."


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

saturn4663, 

I am sorry to hear about your experience. We can certainly reach out to your dealership about your visit. Please private message us your name, VIN, phone number, and dealership name. I look forward to hearing from you. 

Erica Tiffany
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> There are some exceptions to this rule. For example, if you live in Canada and you get temperatures below -25C regularly, you're better off with a 0W-30. It won't be DEXOS1 certified and the manual won't recommend it, but your car will last a heck of a lot longer and will start easier.
> 
> In 2012, the owner's manual said the drain for the automatic transmission is 5.8 quarts. Nobody has ever drained more than 4.5. If you never paid attention to what you drained and you re-filled 5.8 quarts, you'd be in trouble.
> 
> ...


No. There should be a 0W30 dexos2 oil. 

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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

titanman2789 said:


> No. There should be a 0W30 dexos2 oil.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


From the dexos2 list:


Brand NameSupplierFluid TypeViscosityRegionCastrol Edge 0W-30Castrol Ltd.dexos20W-30GlobalCastrol Edge Professional C3 0W-30Castrol Ltd.dexos20W-30GlobalCastrol Edge Turbo Diesel 0W-30Castrol Ltd.dexos20W-30Global


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## Tdi'r (Jan 5, 2014)

My CD only couple weeks old. But stories like yours makes my head twitch as I think about approaching service in a few months.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

In the IT world we have a term "Bleeding Edge" to refer to the early adopters of technology. It's unfortunate that the Cruze CTD is experiencing the same phenomenon. When a dealership receives a new model from GM they need to get their service department trained on it before selling any of this model.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

obermd said:


> Which is very unfortunate.





XtremeRevolution said:


> A lot of this is stuff I've said and have been saying for a long time. It's the reason I became an AMSOIL dealer to begin with, the reason I took their T-1 certification, and the reason why I'm taking steps toward becoming STLE Lubrication Specialist certified. All in due time of course as that exam is $470 and I have plenty to learn till I am ready to take it.
> 
> All that said, not using a DEXOS1 oil or 5W-30 weight will do absolutely nothing to your warranty thanks to Magnuson-Moss, and I will be more than happy to send anyone's dealership a stern letter reminding them of the law they are required to operate under. I happen to use a PAO/Ester blend in 0W-30 (AMSOIL SS). I have a friend with a Cruze (also an AMSOIL dealer) who has been using the same oil for ~100k miles now as a courier. Not to say anecdotal evidence should be taken as fact, but we both know that all oils thicken when cold; it's just a matter of how much. The less they do so, the better they will flow when the engine is started while cold in those particularly cold conditions.
> 
> ...


and it continues

it only serves to confuse ppl


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## Cruze2.0Diesel (Jun 30, 2013)

obermd said:


> In the IT world we have a term "Bleeding Edge" to refer to the early adopters of technology. It's unfortunate that the Cruze CTD is experiencing the same phenomenon. When a dealership receives a new model from GM they need to get their service department trained on it before selling any of this model.


Plenty of publications from the factory. The only excuse is they can't read or are lazy. First off the dealerships do a lot of advertising saying that "nobody knows your car like our factory trained personnel". Secondly GM produces a new 2.0 Turbo Diesel and you as a professional working at a dealership selling this new engine are not excited about that enough to find out information on it? Unbelievable. I posted a similar issue 6 months ago and then I could except Bleeding Edge, now it's just pathetic.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Cruze2.0Diesel said:


> Plenty of publications from the factory. The only excuse is they can't read or are lazy. First off the dealerships do a lot of advertising saying that "nobody knows your car like our factory trained personnel". Secondly GM produces a new 2.0 Turbo Diesel and you as a professional working at a dealership selling this new engine are not excited about that enough to find out information on it? Unbelievable. I posted a similar issue 6 months ago and then I could except Bleeding Edge, now it's just pathetic.


Bingo! I'm just some schmuck on the street, if it was my job I'd know everything to know about all the models on our lot, and up and coming! That's your only job at a dealership! To be the masters of your product in both sales and service!


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## Heftyhank (Nov 10, 2013)

My dealership did have the oil and filter for my first change but i had to school them on topping off the DEF fluid along with the oil change lol they were trying to charge me


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I wonder how long before some dealership figures out that DEF fluid top offs should be treated like windshield washer and done for free. Yes, DEF fluid is more expensive but doing this with DEF fluid would more than pay for itself over time through goodwill and repeat business.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

obermd said:


> I wonder how long before some dealership figures out that DEF fluid top offs should be treated like windshield washer and done for free. Yes, DEF fluid is more expensive but doing this with DEF fluid would more than pay for itself over time through goodwill and repeat business.


Hopefully not long. How much is a gallon of windshield washer fluid? $3-5. Def is $2.75/gallon at a truck stop? Come on Chevy. 

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## gyrfalcon (Dec 27, 2013)

saturn4663 said:


> ...They said "we have dexos1 it should be ok" I referred them to the manual in my glove box. Which states that DEXOS2 should always be used. If it can't be located ACEA C3 rated oil of the proper grade (5W30) can be used....


Did you buy this car from an authorized Chevy dealership? I'd call up Chevy customer service and report what they told you and find another dealership.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Bring your own oil to the dealer, or better yet bring your own oil to an independent oil changer and keep your receipts. That's about the only way you'll know for sure what you're getting.

Have we seen any UOAs from GM's Dexos 2 oil and the Cruze diesel?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Bring your own oil to the dealer, or better yet bring your own oil to an independent oil changer and keep your receipts. That's about the only way you'll know for sure what you're getting.
> 
> Have we seen any UOAs from GM's Dexos 2 oil and the Cruze diesel?


My factory-fill oil is in the mail to Blackstone. 


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## ParisTNDude (Oct 7, 2013)

My dealership had never had a quota to bring in a diesel cruze prior to just now. They were not prepared because they had never had the need to service a Cruze TD. I went to them well in advance of when I really needed a service and, without complaint, they ordered all the necessities and I'm having my first oil change tomorrow. The service manager was called in and he told his tech writer to do the job right and check the requirements. I double checked before my scheduled appointment to make sure they had everything and they did. I

think, when you have a relatively rare car, you should be a little pro-active to make sure your Cruze gets the proper care and contact your home dealership to get acquainted and let them know what you expect. In a short conversation, you can find out if the service department has their "stuff" together or not. This is especially true if you schedule a service at a dealership other than the one you bought it from. If you bought it from them and they don't have a clue, shame on them.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

It is unfortunate, but there are just simply a lot of lazy people out there. People who do just the bare minimum to keep their jobs because they really just don't care. I could rant about complacency but it will do no good. It's up to us (the CTD owners) to be vigilant in caring for our cars to ensure long turm reliability. 

I made sure to tell my dealership to get the Dexos2 and mentioned it several times between making the appointment and picking up the car. I also confirmed with parts that they had supplied the Dexos2 for my oil change.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

You would think that most Chevy dealerships would be familiar with Dexos2 and diesel servicing. After all, it's not like diesels are new to Chevy; just in their cars.



obermd said:


> I wonder how long before some dealership figures out that DEF fluid top offs should be treated like windshield washer and done for free. Yes, DEF fluid is more expensive but doing this with DEF fluid would more than pay for itself over time through goodwill and repeat business.


I see an obstacle with that, and it's called Duramax. They use a whole lot more DEF than a tiny little 2.0L four-banger does. I would imagine if Chevy offered free DEF topoffs for the Cruze, the truck owners would want it too.

Although, you're probably right. It would go a long way towards some customer goodwill.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

PanJet said:


> You would think that most Chevy dealerships would be familiar with Dexos2 and diesel servicing. After all, it's not like diesels are new to Chevy; just in their cars.


The only vehicle sold in North America that calls for dexos2 is our Cruze Diesel, of which only ~3,000 are sold. 


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Tomko said:


> The only vehicle sold in North America that calls for dexos2 is our Cruze Diesel, of which only ~3,000 are sold.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Really? I thought all GM diesels required Dexos2 now same as all of their gasoline engines require Dexos1 since MY 2012. Huh, you learn something new every day.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

PanJet said:


> Really? I thought all GM diesels required Dexos2 now same as all of their gasoline engines require Dexos1 since MY 2012. Huh, you learn something new every day.


I remember reading somewhere that GM calls out to NOT use Dexos2 in the diesel trucks.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

diesel said:


> I remember reading somewhere that GM calls out to NOT use Dexos2 in the diesel trucks.


Interesting. I just found and downloaded the Duramax Supplemental Manual for 2013 and dexos isn't mentioned anywhere in the manual.


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## Tdi'r (Jan 5, 2014)

For what it's worth, I've been thinking of pros and cons of taking CD to dealer for free maintenance (generally do my own service). So I stopped by our dealership parts department and said, "I'd like to buy a quart or 5 of oil for my new Cruze Diesel, like to have some on hand if it ever runs low... noticed it takes something called Dexos 2." Parts manager looked it up and said "yep," but they didn't have that oil in stock and he wasn't familiar with it. He offered to pump a quart of oil out of the drum they use in the service department. He acknowledged it was Dexos 1. I said, "thanks, that's generous but I really think this car calls for the Dexos 2 variety. In fact, it's my understanding that the Diesel Cruze is the only car you sell that takes this specific oil."
He said, "let me look into this and get back with you, glad you inquired because we need to know what's what with this Diesel." He did and he got it right. Thanked me and said he's going to begin stocking it for routine service and customers who wish to purchase.
I'm reasonably confident that parts/service professionals at the dealerships want to do what's correct, some are simply not acclimated to this unique diesel animal yet. 
I'm not suggesting that my approach is the best or even preferable, but I do think it's more productive when we don't hit the door of the dealership as wizards appearing to know it all and proceed to tell them how things should be done.
Anyway, I thought this would be a backdoor way of preparing for routine service, allowing them to be the experts, and me a comfortable customer.:smileystooges:


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Tdi'r said:


> Anyway, I thought this would be a backdoor way of preparing for routine service, allowing them to be the experts, and me a comfortable customer.


Great idea! It might even be a good idea to do this while you are at the dealer picking up your new Cruze diesel... give them lots of notice.


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