# american made cars



## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

do you love that fact that gm made a really good car to contest with its Asian competition.i love my cruze for it is made in America i dont care if a Toyota was made in America its not the heartbeat of America in my book Toyota is just a trendy car that everyone thinks they have to have. i love older imports just newer ones i really hate driving and seeing a million camarys,i just drive along and shake my head saying this is what America has come to,when you go to japan there are nooooo American cars anywhere.another thing i love is the fact everyone says Asian cars last forever so do American cars cause there's still cars from the 50s around today,ahh i just have to vent my hatred towards all the people in America who buy a Asian car for gas mileage when there is a American cars suppressing them


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

Do you feel the that GM should stop selling the Buick Excelle in china? After all it is Chinas top seller. Do you think that they are exploiting the Chinese or are they making a smart business decision? 
Do you think the the Chinese should stop buying it because the manufacturer is from another country? Do you hate them too for buying a foreign car?

It really is no secret that a lot of American built cars were and some still my be crap. Even GM has said that they have slacked in quality over the years. Let us not forget the 1984 Cadillac Cimarron.

I love supporting my own country but I am not going to buy what I perceive as crap just because it was made in America. I do believe that most American cars have been lacking in the past 30 years at least, and I do believe that they are working hard to and are correcting the issues. I can understand some of your frustration but to say that you have "hatred towards all the people in America who buy a Asian car" is probably not the best way to vent or resolve the issue.


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## CruzinGeorgia (Apr 7, 2011)

Toyota is the (_un?)_official truck of the taliban, however.


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

"American Made" is a rather hard term to put down. Chrysler, GM, and Ford are american-born companies, yes, but that doesn't mean all of their cars are made in the U.S. - and Honda, Nissan, Suburu, Mazda and Toyota are Japan-borne, while Kia and Hyundai are Korean, but consider these factories:

*Honda:* Factories in Ohio, Alabama, Indiana
*Hyundai:* Factory in Birmingham, Alabama
*Toyota:* Factories in West Virginia, Alabama, Indiana, Texas, Kentucky, and soon Mississippi

...
and the list goes on. Not all of these are merely 'assembly plants', many of them manufacture Engine and power-train parts, or perform R&D for their respective companies. An interesting thing about Mazda is they are fully partnered with Ford, often sharing technology and platforms with them.

So, what is "American Made"?


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## bigbee60 (Nov 24, 2010)

Well 46% of your Cruze is built in US/Canada 

A bit more North American content if you include the Mexican made transmission.

Toyota made some really long-lasting cars in the early 90's when they shared the Lexus investment across Toyota, but not since then as their corporate mantra is to cut costs at any cost and the more recent Camry/Corolla models show that cheapness. Toyota always claims that an RL Polk study says that 90% of the Camry's built since 1992 are still on the road and a similar percentage of Corollas. If you really read what RL Polk looked at, they looked at a sample of registrations in CA and AZ (two "no rust" states) and found those statistics. The CA AG disagreed and told Toyota to stop the deceptive advertising three times in three years.

So when you really look at historic and current registrations as other consultancies have as part of independent surveys (AutoPacifica, 2953 Analytics), the car with sales over 100K per year and the highest on-road percentage is the 1997 to 2003 Chevrolet Malibu at 67%. The Accord is about 10 percentage points behind and the Camry is not on the national list, just in a few western states where rust doesn't eat them alive.

Enjoy your Cruze - it does set the bar higher than past models, but you'll find the Cobalt and Cavalier issues were more about cheap feeling parts content than long-term repair or longevity issues.


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## Kinmartin0789 (Feb 18, 2011)

Silphion said:


> So, what is "American Made"?


 i dont have a clear answer for this but i still feel Toyota has alot of explaining to do for the most recent "recall no recall omgz our floor mats kill people oh wait its actually a pedal malfunction not our fault lets not fix, **** US government wants us to fix fiasco". 

Main difference imo between "american cars" and foreign cars in terms of quality is that most foreign brands require you to bring in your car oh every three months or so for scheduled maintenance. this is where they will replace certain parts and really keep up the car. this is really expensive but it keeps the car working longer and more reliably. American cars dont require this and most americans will if not required to do something they will not do it.


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

Kinmartin0789 said:


> Main difference imo between "american cars" and foreign cars in terms of quality is that most foreign brands require you to bring in your car oh every three months or so for scheduled maintenance. this is where they will replace certain parts and really keep up the car.


Definitely not my experience. Two toyotas I owned went for miles trouble free without "part replacement". Just brake pads when brakes were low. Many people buy foreign cars assuming they are low maintenance thus do not want to voluntarily take them in, and they get by like this for years.


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## Kinmartin0789 (Feb 18, 2011)

SilverCruzer said:


> Definitely not my experience. Two toyotas I owned went for miles trouble free without "part replacement". Just brake pads when brakes were low. Many people buy foreign cars assuming they are low maintenance thus do not want to voluntarily take them in, and they get by like this for years.


 
Good to know, the people im accustomed to are my coworkers and they mostly own vws and audis and it seems every other month they are in for scheduled maintenance and they explained alot of what comes in with it and if they dont keep up with the maintenance they lose their warranties. this is according to them not my experience i have only owned Chevys


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

Silphion said:


> "American Made" is a rather hard term to put down. Chrysler, GM, and Ford are american-born companies, yes, but that doesn't mean all of their cars are made in the U.S. - and Honda, Nissan, Suburu, Mazda and Toyota are Japan-borne, while Kia and Hyundai are Korean, but consider these factories:
> 
> *Honda:* Factories in Ohio, Alabama, Indiana
> *Hyundai:* Factory in Birmingham, Alabama
> ...


Exactly! Someone who knows. Some Japanese cars have more US made parts in them than some US cars.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

all i see in this is parts made and assembled here the car was not designed nor born as an American car company,and for longevity my family has owend numerous chevys that have lasted well over 200k no problems,i owned a 2002 chevy tahoe sold with 248k on it i never replaced the brakes on that car once,my dad owned a 1996 one ton we got it with 250k on it we pulled a 37 toyhauler with it for another 15k no problems owned a 1993 blazer had problems in the begging just because my dad put a chip in it when we took the chip out last 245k so its all about how you drive and im pretty sure the people in Toyota drive real slow and cautious cause they know there car is slowy dieing off i used to jump and beat my tahoe,im getting at is American car company's made America they had a strike out the last few years but there back and noone will take the time and look at gm or ford anymore and another thing all the most of the money you pay for a toyo goes back to japan the 3rd strongest econmey right now,an american company the money stays in america/canada (and mexico is pretty much part of america theres so many in socal)


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

*I'm confused...*



jakkaroo said:


> do you love that fact that gm made a really good car to contest with its Asian competition.i love my cruze for it is made in America i dont care if a Toyota was made in America its not the heartbeat of America in my book Toyota is just a trendy car that everyone thinks they have to have. i love older imports just newer ones i really hate driving and seeing a million camarys,i just drive along and shake my head saying this is what America has come to,when you go to japan there are nooooo American cars anywhere.another thing i love is the fact everyone says Asian cars last forever so do American cars cause there's still cars from the 50s around today,ahh i just have to vent my hatred towards all the people in America who buy a Asian car for gas mileage when there is a American cars suppressing them


Without punctuation, your thoughts are a tad difficult to understand. 

_"ahh i just have to vent my *hatred* towards all the people in America who buy a Asian car for gas mileage when there is a American cars suppressing them_"
I have a '97 Civic and a '03 Protege5 in my garage, but I don't feel surpressed. Quite the contrary, my Civic gets 30 mpg city and 40+ highway. 

_"another thing i love is the fact everyone says Asian cars last forever so do American cars cause there's still cars from the 50s around today",
_I think the popular thought of Asian cars lasting so long is that they do so without the maintenance that American cars traditionally required. The aforementioned Honda and Mazda have never been in the shop for anything but routine maintenance. With two exceptions. The Honda did have a steering rack seal blowout, but the rack was American made and the two replacement racks (the first one failed after two weeks) were also American made. The Mazda had to have a remote fob reprogrammed because a RFID transmitter in a Point of Sale terminal zapped it. Every Chevy I have owned ('62 Impala, '65 Corsa, '69 Z28, & '83 Z28) nickled and dimed me all the time I owned them. 

_"i love my cruze for it is made in America"
_Yes, it is made in America, at least 45% of it is, but that is not the most important aspect for me. It looks like a really well designed car (Germany & Korea), with a lot of value for the money. The '97 Civic in my garage was 65% domestic content and built in Ohio. The bluebook on this car is over $5,000 now and I paid $15,500 for it. To me, that's value.

Having said all of that, I am seriously looking at ordering a Cruze. I am very hopeful that the lessons of the past have indeed been learned. After all, I did own a '92 Saturn SC. I hope that Chevy is building a car that I can afford to purchase and own for the next decade. However, I will wait for the second model year production before I order. Two reasons: I want to be more sure that they have the "bugs" worked out, as this is a rather complex electronically controlled machine. The second reason is I want to be more comfortable that Lordstown has learned to do consistent quality builds. The Cruze I order will be over $23,000, and I don't have that kind of money to waste.

End of editorial...

Jim


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

ive rethought my words all i have to say is i love my cruze for its made in america and it also deserves to have heartbeat of america on it,i loved older asian cars like the civics im happy with those they were extrmly unsafe and its hard to find one that didnt have a single ding on it because if it had a ding it was most likely salvaged i put extreme faith into american made cars but newer asians carsnot so much i really dislike the fact is the tundra is not even produced in asia its only made for America,if you go to japan you will not see a single American car anywhere,thats why there economy is strong,America screwed up by letting imports take control will they were ruling they were twiddling there fingers,now there back any everyone has this strong disbelief that there trash American cars are back and hopefully they will hit America by storm


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

jakkaroo, I'd like to introduce you to the period.

I think you two will make great friends!


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## Eightbelow (Mar 16, 2011)

GM has the highest manufacturing footprint in the United States. People that say imports are more American than Domestic cars don't have a clue what they are talking about. All cars labled as domestic and not imports are required by law to have atleast 75% US/Canada parts content to be considered domestic. Toyota, Honda, Kia and other manufacturers simply build a few factories on US soil for marketing purposes to be able to say they build in the USA. The only reason domestic car manufacturers offshore jobs and work at all is to save money and stay competitive (producing lower priced cars) due to all the competition of people now buying imports.


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## Eric123 (Mar 20, 2011)

Defining an American Car - MSN Autos

Half way down it states the Toyota Avalon has more domestic content than the Chrysler PT Cruiser. 70% vs Chrysler's 61. So what happened to the law you mention of 75%?


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Eric123 said:


> Defining an American Car - MSN Autos
> 
> Half way down it states the Toyota Avalon has more domestic content than the Chrysler PT Cruiser. 70% vs Chrysler's 61. So what happened to the law you mention of 75%?


The April 2011 issue of "Car and Driver" also had a very enlightening article concerning "Domestic Production" that showed both content and location of manufacture of vehicles that were "built" in America. The 75% cutoff is still the standard, but you have to know the full story first. I really don't think content is the most important parameter, but rather how it is designed and built that matters.


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

Kinmartin0789 said:


> Good to know, the people im accustomed to are my coworkers and they mostly own vws and audis and it seems every other month they are in for scheduled maintenance and they explained alot of what comes in with it and if they dont keep up with the maintenance they lose their warranties. this is according to them not my experience i have only owned Chevys


Alright..that clarification explains much. Those two brands have been pretty bad with reliability, so yeah, you're right about that. Not only have I seen that in ratings, but friends/family I know that own VW's have the same experience.


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## Eric123 (Mar 20, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> The April 2011 issue of "Car and Driver" also had a very enlightening article concerning "Domestic Production" that showed both content and location of manufacture of vehicles that were "built" in America. The 75% cutoff is still the standard, but you have to know the full story first. I really don't think content is the most important parameter, but rather how it is designed and built that matters.


ah ok, thanks


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Eightbelow said:


> All cars labled as domestic and not imports are required by law to have atleast 75% US/Canada parts content to be considered domestic. Toyota, Honda, Kia and other manufacturers simply build a few factories on US soil for marketing purposes to be able to say they build in the USA. The only reason domestic car manufacturers offshore jobs and work at all is to save money and stay competitive (producing lower priced cars) due to all the competition of people now buying imports.


I don't think its quite that simplistic. 

_"All cars labled as domestic and not imports are required by law to have atleast 75% US/Canada parts content to be considered domestic."
_Yes, 75% content by dollar volume, not quantity.

"_Toyota, Honda, Kia and other manufacturers simply build a few factories on US soil for marketing purposes to be able to say they build in the USA.:|Toyota, Honda, Kia and other manufacturers simply build a few factories on US soil for marketing purposes to be able to say they build in the USA."_
Well, yes, they do advertise that, but it goes much deeper. Let's take a look at a vehicle built in the US from each of three manufacturers you list.
Toyota Camry 80% domestic content, 253,098 units in 2010.
Honda Accord 80% domestic content, 295,709 units in 2010.
Kia Sorento 40% domestic content, 130,167 units in 2010.
Plus, for comparison, some "American" cars.
Chevy Malbu, 75% domestic content, 235,956 units in 2010.
Chevy Equinox, 66% domestic content, 166,088 units in 2010.
All Chevys are 75% or less domestic content. 

For every percentage of dollar value that is not domestic sourced, that money flows directly out of the US economy and is not part of the company profit, no matter where corporate headquarters is located.

All of the US (and Canada) workers are earning wages that are spent and taxed in the US and their localities. Toyota, Honda, and Kia per hour labor costs are in the $44 to $52 per hour per employee range, so they are not getting off really cheap. GM's hourly labor costs are $58 per employee after the bancruptcy concessions, by the way. Thus a great deal of the cost to build a car goes into the labor bucket. 

I have no idea what it costs to produce a given car, as we don't see that figure. I once read that the average profit from the sale of a compact car was about $1,500. The best we can see is what the dealer pays for the vehicle to get it from the manufacturer. Remember, the dealers get paybacks from the manufacturer based on the number of cars they sell, so that picture gets even more obscure. 

_"The only reason domestic car manufacturers offshore jobs and work at all is to save money and stay competitive (producing lower priced cars) due to all the competition of people now buying imports."_
Well, yes, and it only took them 30 plus years to do something about the situation. Consumers tend to vote with their wallets and when a better mousetrap comes along, it will prevail over the inferior product. I bought Chevy's until 1977 (Toyota Corolla SR5 Liftback) and that car was so superior to what I had owned previously, I didn't go back until an '86 Ford. It was so bad, I traded it in on a Mazda in 18 months. The next American car was a '92 Saturn and it was really good. By the time it came time to get a new car, the Saturns were no longer price competitive and I went back to a foreign car. I haven't purchased an American model since. However, each time, I looked at everything that was available in the class I wanted to buy, and the American vehicles just could not compete. I think the Cruze may be different and I'm looking very closely. 

See, its not that cut and dry when it comes to domestic vs. import cars. There is a guy in my end of town that drives a blue Chevy HHR with a big UAW bumper sticker that reads "BUY AMERICAN" on the rear bumper. Let's see: HHR, 37% domestic content, built in Mexico! 

By the way, here's the "_Car and Driver_" article on vehicle content:

A Graphic Representation of What's Really "Made in America" - Feature - Car and Driver

Jim


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## ChevyCruzeLTZ (Apr 7, 2011)

Man I really need a "Like" button here!



jakkaroo said:


> do you love that fact that gm made a really good car to contest with its Asian competition.i love my cruze for it is made in America i dont care if a Toyota was made in America its not the heartbeat of America in my book Toyota is just a trendy car that everyone thinks they have to have. i love older imports just newer ones i really hate driving and seeing a million camarys,i just drive along and shake my head saying this is what America has come to,when you go to japan there are nooooo American cars anywhere.another thing i love is the fact everyone says Asian cars last forever so do American cars cause there's still cars from the 50s around today,ahh i just have to vent my hatred towards all the people in America who buy a Asian car for gas mileage when there is a American cars suppressing them


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## ChevyCruzeLTZ (Apr 7, 2011)

This one get a big "Like" too, I'm gonna use this one!



CruzinGeorgia said:


> Toyota is the (_un?)_official truck of the taliban, however.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...play "nice" everyone, or the *nursery guard* will send everyone to their respective corners and off to bed with NO supper tonight!


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

jakkaroo said:


> do you love that fact that gm made a really good car to contest with its Asian competition.i love my cruze for it is made in America i dont care if a Toyota was made in America its not the heartbeat of America in my book Toyota is just a trendy car that everyone thinks they have to have. i love older imports just newer ones i really hate driving and seeing a million camarys,i just drive along and shake my head saying this is what America has come to,when you go to japan there are nooooo American cars anywhere.another thing i love is the fact everyone says Asian cars last forever so do American cars cause there's still cars from the 50s around today,ahh i just have to vent my hatred towards all the people in America who buy a Asian car for gas mileage when there is a American cars suppressing them


There's nothing trendy about a Camry. There is a very good reason Toyota was able to say "80% of Toyotas sold in the last 20 years are still on the road". You have "hatred" towards people that do exactly what American business is based on. Your statement about no American cars in Japan is dead wrong as well. I didn't know the heartbeat of America was based on the suits of the corporation and not the hands that built the product. I love how it's considered un-American to follow Capatilism.


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> T You have "hatred" towards people that do exactly what American business is based on. ..I love how it's considered un-American to follow Capatilism.


Exactly!

Yes, its unfortunate that another nation takes the money for selling the most cars here, but to just tell everyone they need/should buy American because its American is an action of a social state. Further more, what incentive would the Big 3 have to make you a good car if they knew you had to buy it?

Now if you want to discuss trade taxes and restrictions, I do believe there is some room there for political discussion and control.


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## usaalways (Mar 29, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> all i see in this is parts made and assembled here the car was not designed nor born as an American car company,and for longevity my family has owend numerous chevys that have lasted well over 200k no problems,i owned a 2002 chevy tahoe sold with 248k on it i never replaced the brakes on that car once,my dad owned a 1996 one ton we got it with 250k on it we pulled a 37 toyhauler with it for another 15k no problems owned a 1993 blazer had problems in the begging just because my dad put a chip in it when we took the chip out last 245k so its all about how you drive and im pretty sure the people in Toyota drive real slow and cautious cause they know there car is slowy dieing off i used to jump and beat my tahoe,im getting at is American car company's made America they had a strike out the last few years but there back and noone will take the time and look at gm or ford anymore and another thing all the most of the money you pay for a toyo goes back to japan the 3rd strongest econmey right now,an american company the money stays in america/canada (and mexico is pretty much part of america theres so many in socal)


Where is the _punctuation _


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## fenix (Mar 30, 2011)

i understand what hes saying hes so fed up with the "hype" of toyota and honda


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

fenix said:


> i understand what hes saying hes so fed up with the "hype" of toyota and honda


exactly seems like its just a trend your cool if you drive a toyota,i feel cooler in my cruze


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

usaalways said:


> Where is the _punctuation _


Exactly. Who the heck can read that???


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

robertbick said:


> Exactly. Who the heck can read that???


...a product of today's people who only know how to communicate with their thumbs on Blackberry-type devices.

...spelling and punctuation don't seem to matter anymore...*NOT! cool*


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## scaredpoet (Nov 29, 2010)

Eightbelow said:


> Toyota, Honda, Kia and other manufacturers simply build a few factories on US soil for marketing purposes to be able to say they build in the USA.


You know, considering that Toyota hires nearly 29,000 US employees, and indirect parts and sales operations account for nearly 164,000 additional US jobs, that's a pretty expensive "marketing" budget! (source)




> The only reason domestic car manufacturers offshore jobs and work at all is to save money and stay competitive (producing lower priced cars) due to all the competition of people now buying imports.


So, the knife shouldn't cut both ways? We can criticize foreign car manufacturers and should shun their products for having primarily overseas workers, but it's okay for US-based manufacturers to save a few bucks by not hiring US employees when it's cheaper to outsource? 

Also, by your own 75% domestic parts standard, the Cruze _isn't_ an American car: only 45% of its parts for the 2011 model year are built here in the good-ol' U S of A. So, is that reason enough not to buy it? Should people be looking at other cars?


I will say this: I have _never_ owned an import. I've ridden inside plenty of 'em, I have friends who own 'em, I've rented quite a few, and I test drove several every time I've looked to buy a car. But in the end I've never wanted to buy one. 

It isn't _because_ they were imports though, but rather because based on what I've seen, and what I've experienced, it just happens for whatever reason that they _just aren't as good_ as everyone seems to think they are.

Every Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and Kia I've seen seems to rapidly deteriorate to this level of busted-up nastiness in about two years... but then it just kinda lingers there for many more, staying a heap most of its life, but clinging on for years and years at that level. I _guess_ that's durability. But I've seen lots of domestic cars last just as long, and stay in better shape for longer, too.

And when things do go wrong, the manufacturer is willing to pin the blame on the owner rather than on defects. Like the oil sludge issue on Toyota engines a while back. Owners would produce receipts showing their changed their oil on time, but it wouldn't matter. The problem wasn't a defect; darn owners didn't take care of their cars and change their oil! 

This isn't to say domestics don't have problems. They have, and plenty of 'em. But when something goes wrong on a Chevy, people quickly blame poor quality. When it happens to a Toyota... well, that owner isn't taking care of their car!

But anyway... I think there are plenty of good reasons to stick with certain brands, but "because it's made in Ah-MUR-ih-kuh!" isn't always valid, anymore.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

scaredpoet said:


> You know, considering that Toyota hires nearly 29,000 US employees, and indirect parts and sales operations account for nearly 164,000 additional US jobs, that's a pretty expensive "marketing" budget! (source)


Not to mention that over 60% of Honda's world wide business is done right here in the US and that's just automotive. That's not considering their powersports, lawn and garden, aviation, and other sub branches. Also all but a very few portion of Honda's line sold in North America was designed, part supplied, and assembled right here. **** the last generation Civic built for the japan market was taken directly from the North American CSX which is basicly an upscale American Civic Sedan.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> Not to mention that over 60% of Honda's world wide business is done right here in the US and that's just automotive. That's not considering their powersports, lawn and garden, aviation, and other sub branches. Also all but a very few portion of Honda's line sold in North America was designed, part supplied, and assembled right here. **** the last generation Civic built for the japan market was taken directly from the North American CSX which is basicly an upscale American Civic Sedan.


never said i hated honda there okay to say the least i just dislike all these people that dont even look into an American made car they just assume toyota is the greatest car in the world(yes thats stereotyping but alot of people think that)


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## Laurie Lou (Apr 26, 2011)

To me the non American car was getting boring in looks...I think they were all copying each others style and just got tired of it. If we were born and raised here there is a certain patriotism we want to honor. I'm coming off a 2001 Mitsubishi eclipse that didn't have one issue; Body still excellent...no rust...engine...perfect. Toyota and Honda has met its match and I love the global competition. I'd love to see Chevy on the top. I don't care if it's Ford either but quality is all I can be proud of and and keeping the jobs and profit in America. Go Chevy...Love my Silverados too.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

Laurie Lou said:


> To me the non American car was getting boring in looks...I think they were all copying each others style and just got tired of it. If we were born and raised here there is a certain patriotism we want to honor. I'm coming off a 2001 Mitsubishi eclipse that didn't have one issue; Body still excellent...no rust...engine...perfect. Toyota and Honda has met its match and I love the global competition. I'd love to see Chevy on the top. I don't care if it's Ford either but quality is all I can be proud of and and keeping the jobs and profit in America. Go Chevy...Love my Silverados too.


thank you,another good point is everyone says toyotas last long well ford and chevy are desert tested,nascar tested to hold up under pressure in nascar toyotas motors are dialed and in desert racing there v6s still break down alot the big three rule the racing worlds and if you didnt know the use motors from gm,ford,dodge at least in the desert they do and for them to run 250 miles at 7k rpm is really saying something


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

jakkaroo, take typing lessons, please. You're confusing the heck out of a lot of people. Punctuation and grammar are important, and I don't wanna see "I type too fast" excuse. Ahem.

I get where you're going though: You're saying that you can't stand how people seem to go for Toyota's, Hondas, etc., without looking at GM, Chrysler, and Ford cars, right?

Well, in the end, the vast majority of people 'vote with their wallets'. I don't know about you, but mine and my friends' wallets have been very slim the past couple decades. At the time, the Japanese-brand and Korean-brand cars were some of the cheapest you could find. Plain and simple.

It's not trendiness or fanboyism that draws the mass public to these cars. Hype has something to do with it, but nothing says "Buy me!" than "I cost less than the other guy!"


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

Silphion said:


> jakkaroo, take typing lessons, please. You're confusing the heck out of a lot of people. Punctuation and grammar are important, and I don't wanna see "I type too fast" excuse. Ahem.
> 
> I get where you're going though: You're saying that you can't stand how people seem to go for Toyota's, Hondas, etc., without looking at GM, Chrysler, and Ford cars, right?
> 
> ...


i agree on the typing i type horrible,but for the cheapness comon really,when you look at it gm loads there cars up with features for a good price ie the traverse my mom bought one,cost her 34k and it has alot of fetures we never use ie heated seats,reverse camera,all these goodies are standards gm has put there stranards really high and thats what you pay for,but now they changed that the cruze is among the cheaper small cars and the base line has a lot of nice features that a typical user would need ie power windows and locks,so my point is gm gives alot more for a little now,back then yea not so much


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## Eric123 (Mar 20, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> i agree on the typing i type horrible,but for the cheapness comon really,when you look at it gm loads there cars up with features for a good price ie the traverse my mom bought one,cost her 34k and it has alot of fetures we never use ie heated seats,reverse camera,all these goodies are standards gm has put there stranards really high and thats what you pay for,but now they changed that the cruze is among the cheaper small cars and the base line has a lot of nice features that a typical user would need ie power windows and locks,so my point is gm gives alot more for a little now,back then yea not so much


Not to be rude...but just put one of these "." in everyone once in a while. Everyone has said it but you continue to post without it. It makes it a lot easier for us to understand your point.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

Eric123 said:


> Not to be rude...but just put one of these "." in everyone once in a while. Everyone has said it but you continue to post without it. It makes it a lot easier for us to understand your point.


ill try,thank you


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

jakkaroo said:


> thank you,another good point is everyone says toyotas last long well ford and chevy are desert tested,nascar tested to hold up under pressure in nascar toyotas motors are dialed and in desert racing there v6s still break down alot the big three rule the racing worlds and if you didnt know the use motors from gm,ford,dodge at least in the desert they do and for them to run 250 miles at 7k rpm is really saying something


The Hypo world and normal consumer products should never be used as points of interest for the other. The big three are dominant in NASCAR.... Ok. There are FAR more competitive racing circuits out there than just NASCAR. That's like me saying "Well Honda dominates in IRL and are the only engine provider to Indy cars" It doesn't matter. No where will you ever see a NASCAR motor or a Honda racing motor sold in a regular consumer car. Every company has an area outside of daily drivers that they excel in not just the big three. If you want to get really technical Formula 1 is the big dog of the racing world. Ford is the only one to have competed if I remember correctly. Bottom line though, when it comes to races it's very opinionated on which is the best so it's a poor example for anything mass market.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> The Hypo world and normal consumer products should never be used as points of interest for the other. The big three are dominant in NASCAR.... Ok. There are FAR more competitive racing circuits out there than just NASCAR. That's like me saying "Well Honda dominates in IRL and are the only engine provider to Indy cars" It doesn't matter. No where will you ever see a NASCAR motor or a Honda racing motor sold in a regular consumer car. Every company has an area outside of daily drivers that they excel in not just the big three. If you want to get really technical Formula 1 is the big dog of the racing world. Ford is the only one to have competed if I remember correctly. Bottom line though, when it comes to races it's very opinionated on which is the best so it's a poor example for anything mass market.


time for a histroy lesson,nascar is the AMERICAN race they use cars that consumers would buy and the motors they use you can buy in fact i have a short track motor in my garage you can build there motors there nothing,well yea they are special but consumers can buy them


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

jakkaroo (Edited by Silphion for his reading pleasure.) said:


> I agree on the typing, I type horribly; but for the cheapness...come-on, really? When you look at it, GM loads their cars up with features for a good price (i.e. the traverse). My mom bought one, it cost her $34k and it has a lot of features we never use (i.e. heated seats, reverse camera, etc.).
> 
> All these goodies are now standard, GM has put their standards really high; and thats what you pay for. But now they changed that—the Cruze is among the cheapest small cars, and the base line has a lot of nice features that a typical user would need (i.e. power windows and locks). So my point is GM gives a lot more for a little less cost now. Back then? Yeah, not so much.


While that may be true, that's not what I was referring to. Simply put, folks had very little money on hand in the past two decades. Toyota Camry's and Honda Civics sold so much because they were amongst the lowest-dollar price out there, regardless of features and accessories. The bottom-line price is the most attractive thing you can show a potential customer, not whether or not the doors have power-locks.

...Unless you live in the South, that is. A car with no A/C here is just unheard of.



jakkaroo (again said:


> Time for a histroy lesson: NASCAR is the AMERICAN race. They use cars that consumers would buy, and the motors they use: you can buy. In fact, I have a short track motor in my garage. You can build their motors, they're nothing...Well, yeah, they are special but consumers can buy them.


... Not so. (website). NASCAR cars are built according to racing regulations, many of which far exceed what is deemed 'street legal'.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

jakkaroo said:


> time for a histroy lesson,nascar is the AMERICAN race they use cars that consumers would buy and the motors they use you can buy in fact i have a short track motor in my garage you can build there motors there nothing,well yea they are special but consumers can buy them


Reading comprehension lesson…. Nowhere did I say you couldn't get them. I said companies will not put them in a consumer car. I know all about putting race motors in street legal cars I have a thread on it somewhere where I helped do it. Also your point on NASCAR being an American race is moot. If you honestly think that that's an acual Ford Fusion driving around in circles then I got some swamp land I wanna sell ya.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> Reading comprehension lesson…. Nowhere did I say you couldn't get them. I said companies will not put them in a consumer car. I know all about putting race motors in street legal cars I have a thread on it somewhere where I helped do it. Also your point on NASCAR being an American race is moot. If you honestly think that that's an acual Ford Fusion driving around in circles then I got some swamp land I wanna sell ya.


wheres the land ill buy it,but in all seriousness,American car for the win


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

so today in my auto class we work on toyotas and hondas(go figrue)and i asked my teacher where toytas are made he said canada,which is consdered north america,he went onto say the only car made in america is lexus rx series,he told me hondas are in canada and mexico he said all the plants that are in ohio all they do is finshing touchs ie go over the car and make sure its good for consumers,remeber this is a lexus technician who has worked for toyota for 30 plus years,he also went on to say if you do buy a toyota make sure its from japan if its anywhere in canada or mexico its trash,he told me look at the vin if it starts with a j its Japanese if its a 1 its from Canada if its a 5 its Mexico


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

Toyota Operations in the United States


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> so today in my auto class we work on toyotas and hondas(go figrue)and i asked my teacher where toytas are made he said canada,which is consdered north america,he went onto say the only car made in america is lexus rx series,he told me hondas are in canada and mexico he said all the plants that are in ohio all they do is finshing touchs ie go over the car and make sure its good for consumers,remeber this is a lexus technician who has worked for toyota for 30 plus years,he also went on to say if you do buy a toyota make sure its from japan if its anywhere in canada or mexico its trash


I am sorry, but this is all so wrong that I can't begin to enumerate all of the inaccuracies. Take the time to look at the earlier links to references of North American assembly plants. I worked for a company that did I/T consulting at the Ohio Honda plants, so I know what assembly work they do there.

OK, I'll do one. I am the original owner of the Civic in my garage. The Vin begins with a 1. The documentation that came with the car states that it was assembled in Marysville, OH, and the door sticker states that it was manufactured in the U. S. A. Civics are now assembled in Canada. 

For your edification (agian), and your ease in finding it, here is the C&D article showing what is made where in North America. 

http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ion_of_what_s_really_made_in_america_-feature


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

well then i guess your right,but Asian cars "made"in the US still arent built with American made parts,there imported from japan unlike the big three everything is in the state,and im not talking about motors im talking about headlights and fenders,


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

^ Wrong again. There are as many cars built in the US with over 75% domestic parts from Toyota and Honda as the Big 3. You really need to start doing some real research before you post.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> ^ Wrong again. There are as many cars built in the US with over 75% domestic parts from Toyota and Honda as the Big 3. You really need to start doing some real research before you post.


all the research i will do is ask real people who know this stuff and not the internet were it can be rewrote so its false,if toyota is a socalled American company why dont they brand it,they cant and never will because all the money you spend on a car goes back to japan very little goes and pays for the works in a toyota plant


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## MaximusPrime (Mar 23, 2011)

Alright, I've gotta ask. Jakkaroo, how the heck old are you?


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

jakkaroo said:


> *all the research i will do is ask real people who know this stuff and not the internet were it can be rewrote so its false*,if toyota is a socalled American company why dont they brand it,they cant and never will because all the money you spend on a car goes back to japan very little goes and pays for the works in a toyota plant


This is your first problem. Everything you've posted has been proven wrong. The information is only as good as the source. Also if you want to talk about money going to America then you need to do a little research on GMs $45 Billion tax break on profits for the next 20 years. In all honesty you really, really, really need to stop going by what your highschool teachers and friends say, and read.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> all the research i will do is ask real people who know this stuff and not the internet were it can be rewrote so its false


The Car and Driver article link I posted was also published in their magazine. There were tens of thousands of *PRINTED PAPER* copies distributed all over the globe. The web page article is exactly the same as the paper magazine article. It is the truth and you really should learn to deal with it.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

alright then why doesnt toyota call themselfs a american compnay they dont because they cant end of story, believe what you wanna believe but an american car is narrowed down to about 3 big brands GM,Ford,dodge toyta can call themselves an american company all they want they will never be an American company that helped build america today


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## Eric123 (Mar 20, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> so today in my auto class we work on toyotas and hondas(go figrue)and i asked my teacher where toytas are made he said canada,which is consdered north america,he went onto say the only car made in america is lexus rx series,he told me hondas are in canada and mexico he said all the plants that are in ohio all they do is finshing touchs ie go over the car and make sure its good for consumers,remeber this is a lexus technician who has worked for toyota for 30 plus years,he also went on to say if you do buy a toyota make sure its from japan if its anywhere in canada or mexico its trash,he told me look at the vin if it starts with a j its Japanese if its a 1 its from Canada if its a 5 its Mexico


I'm not sure I understand your point about Canada and Mexico? The ford fusion is assembled in mexico however ford is a domestic auto company. Many GM vehicles and parts are built in Canada but GM is still a domestic product. Are you trying to say that because Toyota or Honda build outside the USA they are not american cars but GM, Ford, and Chrysler are? I have two GM plants, a Ford plant, and a Chrysler plant all within an hour of me. They are still however american cars. The Ford edge is assembled in Oakville, ON. I've got a Toyota plant, and Honda plant also within an hour of me. I would bet a good portion of the money comes right back to Ontario and not to Japan as you are trying to make people believe. Toyota parts are made here, vehicles are assembled here, wages are paid to Canadian employees, taxes are paid to the Canadian government, and profits are re-invested into Canadian plants and operations. I don't understand how it is any different than GM building a Cruze and selling it in Europe. If I remember correctly a lot of the research and development into the Cruze was done outside North America. Although it is assembled in Ohio, it is less American than some of the so called "imports". If this is your theory you should be just as upset with anyone outside of America who buys a GM product as they are buying an "import". If everyone had the same attitude as you then you could kiss good bye to any exports to other countries. Every country should just be self sustaining, no trading, no global market, every country for itself. I just like the next guy love to support his or her country and there is a bit of patriotism in buying a car from a company that started out in your country however today Toyota or Honda are very much the same as GM or Ford or Chrysler. Global operations, global market. Although one may have headquarters in one country versus the other, they have operations, expenses, plants, and employee's all over the globe. I understand your point about people not giving GM or Ford a chance but this is for a reason. Toyota and Honda gained there reputation for a reason. GM and Ford lost it for a reason. But you are coming across as very biased towards GM based on the false notion that GM is somehow so much more American than Toyota or Honda.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

*Flogging a dead horse...(nt)*

...


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

well if you would like to take a history lesson with out American cars,America would be a commy country veterans would come back to what an............an import no they came back to camaros and mustangs i was born a Chevy boy you must have been born in a toyota plant cause toyota will never be as American or they will never have done as much good as a American company has done for America


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## Eric123 (Mar 20, 2011)

I've only ever owned GM products. This does not mean I will be biased towards GM however. They produced some pretty terrible cars at some points. They lacked styling, mechanical reliability, and were over priced. It isn't hard to figure out how Toyota passed GM in sales figures. They produced better cars for a while. The general population like the styling, the reliability, and the price tag. GM is on the right track with the Cruze. I never said Toyota would be as american as GM. But I don't think you realize how American GM *isn't*. They have so much outside of America. They may have headquarters in America, but a huge portion of the money is not in America. A huge portion of the research, designing, manufacturing, and assembly is outside of America. While GM was shutting American plants down Toyota was starting American plants up? GM hasn't done all good however I still prefer to buy GM products. This doesn't mean that if they somehow go back to producing terrible cars and Toyota had a nice car that I wouldn't buy one. At the end of the day they are both global companies and if I buy either one a huge portion of the money will go to outside North America. 

If you want to make a point make a point. Provide facts, give details and explain yourself. But don't be ignorant or biased when other present you facts and you just out right deny them or ignore them. It is a terrible platform for a debate. You need to be just as willing to hear everyone else and understand there point as they are to you.


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## Eric123 (Mar 20, 2011)

Production sites for the Cruze

Australia: Elizabeth, South Australia
Brazil: São Caetano do Sul, São Paulo
China: Shenyang, Liaoning
India: Halol, Gujarat
Kazakhstan: Ust-Kamenogorsk
Russia: Saint Petersburg
South Korea: Bupyeong-gu, Incheon
Thailand: Rayong
United States: Lordstown, Ohio


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

i can admit gm made **** cars for a while but there back with great cars now since 2010,and yea gm maybe global but there is some dude in Europe doin the same thing im doin saying by Volkswagen its German product,yes i know car company are built for that country ie toyota and there gundra its built for america,but people will buy it thinking its good chevy trucks are bombproof well atleast they use to be,all i have to say is my eyes have been opened to that most car companys are global now but i will always choose a chevy over a ford i mean toyota,so now i understand it i just hate seeing so many camrays there not the most attractive car in the world


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## Eric123 (Mar 20, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> i can admit gm made **** cars for a while but there back with great cars now since 2010,and yea gm maybe global but there is some dude in Europe doin the same thing im doin saying by Volkswagen its German product,yes i know car company are built for that country ie toyota and there gundra its built for america,but people will buy it thinking its good chevy trucks are bombproof well atleast they use to be,all i have to say is my eyes have been opened to that most car companys are global now but i will always choose a chevy over a ford i mean toyota,so now i understand it i just hate seeing so many camrays there not the most attractive car in the world


And I get your point, but if everyone adopted your idea GM would be a fraction of its size. It would only make and sell cars for the USA.

PS. I think the camry is ugly too but to each his own!


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

i was close minded but now i realize gm is just like any other car company they aim to please the world but they were born into the whole phrase of "buy American made" cause i even remember that you didnt buy anything from overseas


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

jakkaroo said:


> *well if you would like to take a history lesson with out American cars,America would be a commy country veterans would come back to what an............an import no they came back to camaros and mustangs* i was born a Chevy boy you must have been born in a toyota plant cause toyota will never be as American or they will never have done as much good as a American company has done for America


Are you serious right now? So you're saying American cars played an influence in drafting our constitution? Also you have no place determining what soldiers came back to and spent their money on. Soldiers taste in cars is just as diverse as the rest of the country. You're driving a rebadged Daewoo get over yourself seriously. And I very highly doubt you remember a time when you only bought American cars. You were probably born in the early 90's when the import boom truly began.


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

I think this thread is done.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

^ In b4 lock?


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

Silphion said:


> I think this thread is done.


Whatever it is, buttons are getting pressed and people are falling for it.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...this thread is locked...


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