# Free oil change question



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I've always run our CTD down to 0%, or ~7500 miles. Changing at 3500-4000 miles is far too early.


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## 1988gmc355 (Jul 20, 2016)

I agree with MP81, run it until 0% or 7500 miles then switch to Amsoil, Then depending on the version of Amsoil you can go longer with filter changes in between. I know yours is a diesel, but I run the Amsoil SS and Wix filters at 15K intervals with a filter change and a bit of oil added at 7500 mile intervals. Nice and easy and I use the first trip meter to track.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Pretty sure the updated Dexos 2 spec is full-synthetic, as well.

I'd run my free oil changes out before switching, honestly. And then continuously forget to buy oil and have the dealer keep doing them (when they only charge $40 for a dexos2 CTD-specific oil change, it's hard _not_ to have them do it - most dealers it's about double)


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

There is a thought pattern on changing the oil out immediately on a new car. Then about 2000 the next time. I would run out my free ones at about 5000 (assuming 3 free) and then switch to Amsoil.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

I had my first free change done at 30-something percent around 5k-6k miles. I'd have to dig out the paperwork...

Currently sitting at 10% and 12k miles and scheduled to get the second free oil change tomorrow.

Debating about doing oil changes myself going forward. I have a dealer-supplied lifetime powertrain warranty that says work must be done by an ASE mechanic, which I'm not, so...


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> There is a thought pattern on changing the oil out immediately on a new car. Then about 2000 the next time. I would run out my free ones at about 5000 (assuming 3 free) and then switch to Amsoil.


So this gets back to the original question...will the dealership do a free oil change per customer request REGARDLESS of mileage or will the customer be required to wait until a certain "Percentage" of oil life remaining?


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

They are yours to use when you want. Go to a different dealer if they do not want to do it - unless of course they are dealer specific.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

Why not press the reset button before you pull in. Sure they'll see your mileage but they won't see your Dic:signs013:


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## wasney (Mar 3, 2015)

If you want the oil change and they won't do it early check another dlr or call customer service. Typically they will honor it early.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I would not use amsoil in the diesel cruze. AFAIK, it doesn't meet the spec. Amsoil will state things like "use where dexos2 is required" or "engineered for use in cars where dexos2 is required". They don't say "meets dexos2 spec". Feel free to correct me if I am wrong and please don't "shoot the messenger"!  

For oil choice - I am looking at pennzoil platinum - it is a synthetic derived from natural gas. I have seen reports that it is sold at walmart at decent price.

I am also going to do first oil change at about 5k miles. I will just pay for it out of pocket if they have issue with it.

jeff


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Hey @XtremeRevolution, what do you say?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

oregon_rider said:


> I would not use amsoil in the diesel cruze. AFAIK, it doesn't meet the spec. Amsoil will state things like "use where dexos2 is required" or "engineered for use in cars where dexos2 is required". They don't say "meets dexos2 spec". Feel free to correct me if I am wrong and please don't "shoot the messenger"!
> 
> For oil choice - I am looking at pennzoil platinum - it is a synthetic derived from natural gas. I have seen reports that it is sold at walmart at decent price.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right, it doesn't meet the spec: it exceeds it. 

Dexos 1/2 are just blood sucking oil taxes that occasionally place idiotic limitations on oil additive levels for regulatory emissions reasons. Note, I am not referring to emissions equipment compatibility here, I'm referring to some moron legislator in California who knows nothing about oil formulation saying "you can't have more than X of this additive in the oil because it will kill all the birds." Most of the time, we are talking entirely insignificant differences where such regulations occur. 

As a result, for this platform and others, I just bypass the oil taxes and look at the more respected industry specifications. I'll break this down for everyone. 

There are generally two types of european oils: full SAPS and mid/low SAPS. The full-SAPS formulas are for older European vehicles or those without sensitive emissions control equipment. The mid/low SAPS oils are those with strict emissions control equipment. Almost all European formula oils fall under one of those categories. 

Full-SAPS Formulas
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
BMW LL-01
MB 229.5
VW 502.00, 505.00
Porsche A40

Mid/Low-SAPS Formulas
ACEA C3
BMW LL-04
MB 229.51
VW 504.00, 507.00
Porsche C30

As it pertains to European formula oils, these are all basically the same. Across the board, an oil that meets MB 229.51 will also meet the BMW, VW, and Porsche specifications for mid/low-SAPS formulas. Across the board, an oil that meets MB 229.5 will also meet BMW, VW, and Porsche specifications for Full-SAPS formulas. 

There are very few exceptions to those statements. MB has a pretty good approval process for this kind of thing, and they literally don't let you list their spec on your product label or webpage unless your oil gets sent to them for testing and approval, so they're usually a great reference point. Same for VW. 

If I am looking for a full-SAPS oil, ANY full synthetic oil that meets MB 229.5 will provide me excellent results. 
If I am looking for a full-SAPS oil, ANY full synthetic oil that meets MB 229.51 will provide me excellent results. 

AMSOIL is not the only company that refuses to pay the oil tax for having a label on their bottle. Motul also comes to mind, and also makes fantastic lubricants. There is nothing about the dexos2 specification that presents higher performance requirements than do the BMW, MB, Porsche, and VW approvals. 

Furthermore, it is worth noting that these are *minimum* performance requirements. It means that the oil must be "at least this good," because companies out there like Shell, Valvoline, and Mobil 1 are obsessed with keeping price as low as possible, and these specifications ensure that the oil performs to at least a certain quality specification. Companies like AMSOIL and Motul don't play these games. They try to produce the best oil that money can buy for a given application and service interval, and are generally known for going well beyond the requirements of OEM specifications. 

They are able to do this, and keep costs low, because they don't pay royalties and exorbitant certification fees to stick a "dexos2" label on their bottle. Don't forget, the dexos2 specification could be certified with a semi-synthetic group 2/3 blended product. To suggest that a full synthetic group 4 PAO, or even a group 3, would not perform much better would be absurd. If anything, dexos2 is has a lower performance requirement than the European specs listed above. 

My advice, in closing, is this: use the best oil you can get your hands on. The manufacturer is not the least bit concerned with your vehicle's reliability once the warranty expires, but you most likely are.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

oregon_rider said:


> I would not use amsoil in the diesel cruze. AFAIK, it doesn't meet the spec. Amsoil will state things like "use where dexos2 is required" or "engineered for use in cars where dexos2 is required". They don't say "meets dexos2 spec". Feel free to correct me if I am wrong and please don't "shoot the messenger"!
> 
> For oil choice - I am looking at pennzoil platinum - it is a synthetic derived from natural gas. I have seen reports that it is sold at walmart at decent price.
> 
> ...


what does the owners manual say?

the gen1 diesel says dexos2 OR acea c3 oil...ive only used the acea c3 oil, which along the way has become dexos2 compliant

does the gen2 manual allow an alternative?


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

For the free oil change question, my dealer told me that I could have the oil changes done whenever I wanted. They said if I wanted them to, they could put the car on the hoist and do 4 oil changes on the spot to use the free oil changes. Obviously didn't get them to do that lol....but puts in perspective how flexible they were with when they could be done.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

boraz said:


> what does the owners manual say?
> 
> the gen1 diesel says dexos2 OR acea c3 oil...ive only used the acea c3 oil, which along the way has become dexos2 compliant
> 
> does the gen2 manual allow an alternative?


 The manual only lists dexos2. 

The original post stated that he could get amsoil for $12 per quart. The amsoil does not state that it meets the dexos2 specification. And contrary to the previous post, it is not possible for the amsoil to exceed the dexos2 spec if it doesn't meet it...

Pennzoil Platinum Plus Euro L is a full synthetic oil refined from natural gas that does state that it meets the dexos2 specification.

Amazon has 6 pack of Pennzoil Euro L for $8.32 quart net. I have amazon prime for free shipping - which is available for this product.

https://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-550042833-6PK-Platinum-Synthetic-Lubricant/dp/B00ZEK6Z64

Walmart appears to have Pennzoil dexos2 oil on the shelf for ~$10.

To me - the Pennzoil is a *very* good synthetic oil and is "top tier" - even if it did cost more - I would still use it over the other alternatives. I will change at 5-6k mile intervals and my turbo will live a long and happy life...

Jeff


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

My problem is no one around me has any dexos 2 oil anywhere. I know Walmart has it at other locations but not the one in my hometown. I can get Amsoil from two different places, one in town and from a friend who will cut me a deal. Amsoil does say that their oil is good for use in vehicles where dexos2 is specificed. I agree that the reason they dont have it listed on GMs website is they refuse to pay the extra money to do so. 
Guess im going to run the 2 free oil changes out close to the end then change it at my own interval after the fact.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

HondaTech2016 said:


> My problem is no one around me has any dexos 2 oil anywhere. I know Walmart has it at other locations but not the one in my hometown. I can get Amsoil from two different places, one in town and from a friend who will cut me a deal. Amsoil does say that their oil is good for use in vehicles where dexos2 is specificed. I agree that the reason they dont have it listed on GMs website is they refuse to pay the extra money to do so.
> Guess im going to run the 2 free oil changes out close to the end then change it at my own interval after the fact.


https://www.amazon.com/Total-184953...qid=1501800950&sr=8-1&keywords=total+ineo+mc3

its dexos2 and a common oil used for these cars


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> what does the owners manual say?
> 
> the gen1 diesel says dexos2 OR acea c3 oil...ive only used the acea c3 oil, which along the way has become dexos2 compliant
> 
> does the gen2 manual allow an alternative?


That not what my owners manual says, just googled and looked online. It says as follows, use dexos 2, when dexos 2 isn't available, you may substitute acea c3. If you google 2014 or 2015 Chevrolet Cruze owners manual, it's on page 272 of 417. 

I don't question that amsoil is good oil, but I personally prefer a company that has dexos 2 on the bottle. I hear plenty of stories on here and elsewhere where a dealer could give me grief for not using dexos 2. I keep receipts and use the correct stuff. Its a personal choice. Not worth debating this issue, everyone may use whatever they see best for their car.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> That not what my owners manual says, just googled and looked online. It says as follows, use dexos 2, when dexos 2 isn't available, you may substitute acea c3. If you google 2014 or 2015 Chevrolet Cruze owners manual, it's on page 272 of 417.
> 
> I don't question that amsoil is good oil, but I personally prefer a company that has dexos 2 on the bottle. I hear plenty of stories on here and elsewhere where a dealer could give me grief for not using dexos 2. I keep receipts and use the correct stuff. Its a personal choice. Not worth debating this issue, everyone may use whatever they see best for their car.


if i dont have dexos2, then its not available.


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## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

The dealer by my house wouldn't do it early even if I paid for it. So, I did it myself. I haven't taken it to them for an oil change since. I wanted it changed at 30%, which was about 5K miles. That didn't seem like a crazy request to me. 

The owners manuals says that if you accidentally reset the OLM then you should change the oil within 500 miles. I thought about resetting the OLM and then taking it in. You could try that if you want.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> if i dont have dexos2, then its not available.


That's ok, I just prefer to not mislead others.


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## Autoist (Jun 25, 2017)

Out of curiosity, since this engine has been out a while in Europe what is the spec/standard used over there?

-A


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Autoist said:


> Out of curiosity, since this engine has been out a while in Europe what is the spec/standard used over there?
> 
> -A


 This is kind of why i want to use Amsoil. Their recommended oil for our cars is actually a european diesel car forumla. Meets a bunch of different manufacturer requirements for european manufacturers.


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## jmlo96 (May 2, 2015)

oregon_rider said:


> boraz said:
> 
> 
> > what does the owners manual say?
> ...


Did you read any of the post explaining amsoil? Just curious.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

1) Up to dealer. here they will charge you even if you had a lease with free changes the entire period of lease if it didn't reach 35% 

2) Exceeds =/= doesn't meet 

verb (used with object)

1.to go beyond in quantity, degree, rate, etc.:
_to exceed the speed limit._


2.to go beyond the bounds or limits of:
_to exceed one's understanding._


3.to surpass; be superior to; excel:
_Her performance exceeded all the others._


verb (used without object)

4.to be greater, as in quantity or degree.

5.to surpass others; excel or be superior.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Taxman said:


> It sounds to me like Amsoil's tribologists think it should meet Dexos if tested, but Amsoil doesn't want to pay for certification, so they can't make the claim that it meets the standard.


That' the way I see it. And along the same lines - amsoil or one of it's representatives is not allowed (in a legal sense) to say that their oil exceeds the dexos2 spec either (as was done in this thread by an amsoil vendor). It is not licensed and the amsoil product has not gone through the qualification and testing that goes along with it.


Out of curiosity, I looked around the web to check virgin oil analysis results for a couple of dexos2 oils to compare to the amsoil. They have nearly identical additive packages - the only difference of note is that the other oils had higher flash points - ~30-40 degrees F. I looked at pennzoil platinum and mobil 1. A higher flash point is said to indicate a higher quality base oil - and is better suited for turbo applications.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Taxman said:


> I thought Amsoil bought their base stock from Mobil and used straight group IV/V while Mobil mixed some III in most of their formulations. If the Mobil analysis wasn't Extended Performance, then Amsoil might not be as good as I thought it was. That might be a good question for the forum at bobistheoilguy.


 The tests that I am looking at are from different time periods, etc. So I would test all at same time with same vendor for accuracy.. But if you just go off the data sheets for the products...

Flashpoints are : 

Amsoil Euro Car Formula 5w30 ------------> 228 degrees C
TOTAL QUARTZ INEO MC3 5W-30----------> 233 degrees C
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30 (dexos2)--> 238 degrees C
Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 (dexos2) ----------------> 254 degrees C

(higher is better...)

I think this answers your question... this particular Mobil 1 definitely isn't a "step down" from anything....

-----------

on edit - I add the "total ineo dexos2" since I saw some purchase this off of amazon...


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## NoDanaOnlyZool (Jun 29, 2017)

I attempted last week, while visiting my selling dealership in Oxford, MS for work, to have the initial complimentary service done with 27% Oil Life Remaining. They were happy to do it at that level of Oil Life Remaining, however, they did NOT have the appropriate oil or filter in stock in their parts department! I was a bit surprised by that, though the only Gen2 Cruze TD that they have sold is mine (so far). I tried to call another dealership where I'll be on Monday (Lincoln, NE), since I'm now at 20% Oil Life Remaining, and they did not have the proper parts either, and won't be able to get them until after I'm gone. Fortunately, the third dealership that I called (Huber Chevy in Omaha, NE) has the proper items in stock, so I'll get that handled next Thursday. 

But to those planning to go to their Chevy Dealership for a service on their new Cruze TD, my advice is to call ahead and make sure they have - or can order - the proper parts in a timely fashion for your schedule. This has been a Public Service Announcement! Good Day!!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Taxman said:


> It sounds to me like Amsoil's tribologists think it should meet Dexos if tested, but Amsoil doesn't want to pay for certification, so they can't make the claim that it meets the standard.


Actually they can. The dexos standard has specific numbers that can be tested against. AMSoil's Signature Series oils have been tested and exceed every single one of the dexos standards. What they haven't done is pay GM for the labeling.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Taxman said:


> It sounds to me like Amsoil's tribologists think it should meet Dexos if tested, but Amsoil doesn't want to pay for certification, so they can't make the claim that it meets the standard.


Is it that they can't, or you don't want them to? More often than not, I find anyone stating what you did refers to the latter. 

With a few exceptions, most certifications simply place limits on already existing ASTM standardized testing. If you are unfamiliar with ASTM standardized testing under API certification and what the limits are for each individual test, you really aren't qualified to be commenting. AMSOIL is no doubt able to review their own testing, performed by an independent lab like Polaris Labs or Southwest Research Institute (don't kid yourself thinking they have their own ASTM calibrated testing facility), and compare it to the limitations set by each respective specification. 

Dexos2, from what I have seen, is very similar to other low-SAPS formulations such as BMW LL-04 MB 229.51, and VW 507 and 504 IIRC. AMSOIL meets those other specifications, so what evidence do you have to so much as insinuate that they don't? 



oregon_rider said:


> That' the way I see it. And along the same lines - amsoil or one of it's representatives is not allowed (in a legal sense) to say that their oil exceeds the dexos2 spec either (as was done in this thread by an amsoil vendor). It is not licensed and the amsoil product has not gone through the qualification and testing that goes along with it.
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, I looked around the web to check virgin oil analysis results for a couple of dexos2 oils to compare to the amsoil. They have nearly identical additive packages - the only difference of note is that the other oils had higher flash points - ~30-40 degrees F. I looked at pennzoil platinum and mobil 1. A higher flash point is said to indicate a higher quality base oil - and is better suited for turbo applications.


Really now, we are not allowed to say the oil exceed the specification? Pray tell, which part of the specification? Which ASTM test are you referring to? 

Using virgin oil analysis to compare engine oil additives is the hallmark of a newbie. Show me which of those additives serves as the primary antioxidant in engine oils. I'll wait. Note that I have an oil analysis at over 40,000 miles without a change using AMSOIL's Dexos2 spec oil. I'll bet money that GM's oil can't do that and have the lab still recommending continued use. Name your price. 

Hint hint: there are a ton of nonmetallic additives in engine oil that are not shown by a $30 analysis sample. Is the Calcium based additive there calcium phenate or calcium sulfonate? Show me where on an oil analysis you can see which VI improvers or pour point depressants are being used. Oh wait, you can't!

Higher flash point does not indicate higher quality base oil. Fact. A lower volatility and a better thermo-oxidation performance is better suited for turbo applications, none of which you have commented on yet. 



Taxman said:


> I thought Amsoil bought their base stock from Mobil and used straight group IV/V while Mobil mixed some III in most of their formulations. If the Mobil analysis wasn't Extended Performance, then Amsoil might not be as good as I thought it was. That might be a good question for the forum at bobistheoilguy.


AMSOIL may at some time have bought their base stock from Mobil 1, but the only AMSOIL and the seller know where they get their base stock*s* from now. Usually, a high end PAO based synthetic like AMSOIL will use an ester for seal compatibility and some kind of mineral based oil as an additive carrier. Who makes all of those blended base oils? What percentage of each is AMSOIL using? 

Let's not start making assumptions for which we have no evidence. BITOG will not be of any help, as their guess will be just as good as yours, and anyone working for a company that has privileged information regarding those formulations and sources will likely be under a nondisclosure agreement. BITOG is a forum like this one, not an authority on lubrication related topics. 



oregon_rider said:


> The tests that I am looking at are from different time periods, etc. So I would test all at same time with same vendor for accuracy.. But if you just go off the data sheets for the products...
> 
> Flashpoints are :
> 
> ...


Flash point is a metric reported for safety handling in the material safety datasheet; it is not a performance metric by which oils can be evaluated against each other or compared.

If you guys are going to start making assumptions, you better get your facts straight before you do.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

:whatdoyouthink:


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I don't question amzoil is good oil, I just prefer oil that meets the spec and it's on the bottle, I realize those of us needing dexos 2 oil is quite small in the United States so maybe it does make sense to not pay the monies to get it, I would assume Mobil and Pennzoil which have dexos 2 oil outsell amzoil in a large way, I won't speculate by how much.

No disrespect to the member here that is at 40000 miles on amzoil, makes no sense in my mind to spend more on oil analyzing than the cost of just replacing the oil. I follow the 7500 miles with gm filter and pennzoil euro 5w30 and honestly don't have much interest in knowing the analysis and spending extra money when I won't keep the car forever, confident it will get me to 200k. If I keep it that long.

The beauty is we have choices on oil, frequency of changes and we live in a free country to make those choices.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> I don't question amzoil is good oil, I just prefer oil that meets the spec and it's on the bottle, I realize those of us needing dexos 2 oil is quite small in the United States so maybe it does make sense to not pay the monies to get it, I would assume Mobil and Pennzoil which have dexos 2 oil outsell amzoil in a large way, I won't speculate by how much.
> 
> No disrespect to the member here that is at 40000 miles on amzoil, makes no sense in my mind to spend more on oil analyzing than the cost of just replacing the oil. I follow the 7500 miles with gm filter and pennzoil euro 5w30 and honestly don't have much interest in knowing the analysis and spending extra money when I won't keep the car forever, confident it will get me to 200k. If I keep it that long.
> 
> The beauty is we have choices on oil, frequency of changes and we live in a free country to make those choices.


Given that Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Shell are massive oil conglomerates, they have no problem paying the royalties, and GM's revenue stream for their dexos licensing scheme relies on the big players paying up. However, you will find even with the big players like Valvoline that there are occasional instances where they will claim compliance with a specification without actually going through the approval process. It is usually the smaller companies like AMSOIL, Schaeffer, Motul, etc. that refuse to pay for the licensing process, instead stating compliance with the specification since they've already had the oil tested. 

You will find that in every single case where a manufacturer refuses to license their product, that the product is of higher quality, performance, and capability than the OEM licensed oil that the manufacturer provides. 

Licensing and approval processes exist for a manufacturer to ensure that a lubricant meets as minimum performance specification. They generally set the bar pretty low to ensure that a manufacturer doesn't have to go crazy formulating a complex and expensive oil. In the dexos2 case, a semi-synthetic oil can meet dexos2 specifications as long as the additives are compatible with the emissions control equipment in the vehicle the oil is intended to be used in. 

As for the 40,000 mile oil change, an analysis costs less than an oil change, while providing information about an engine that is beneficial to for the owner to have for a few reasons. In this case, the engine is also tuned. I don't recall the filter change interval. Demonstrably, someone could go 15,000 miles on one oil change with AMSOIL without concern, so even one oil analysis is beneficial for validating that fact. 

As you noted, we have choices. I encourage choices, and also encourage discussion about those choices. What I don't encourage is the kinds of posts I responded to earlier.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

NoDanaOnlyZool said:


> But to those planning to go to their Chevy Dealership for a service on their new Cruze TD, my advice is to call ahead and make sure they have - or can order - the proper parts in a timely fashion for your schedule. This has been a Public Service Announcement! Good Day!!


I ran into a similar thing with my first oil change. It took the dealer all day because they had to locate and fetch the filter.

For my second oil change I told them "heads up it's a diesel" and they said they had the filter because they're starting to see more of the diesels.


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## NoDanaOnlyZool (Jun 29, 2017)

I got my first service done today in Grand Island, NE. I was down to 11% Oil Life, and was not going to make it until Thursday with the amount of driving that I have to do this week in Nebraska. I called them yesterday, and they had the oil, but not the filter (at that time). They got the filter overnighted in, and I'm now all set. Part of the first service is also a DEF tank fill-up as well! I was happy to see that they did that for no charge. I now have 6,827 miles, and will be close to 7,000 by the end of the day. Still loving this car, and my 51.6 MPG lifetime average.


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