# Car stuck in perpetual regen [again], then CEL turns on



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Driving south today in bitter cold, about -4ºF. I spent at least an hour of highway driving with the engine up to temperature. Halfway through the drive, the engine seems to start a regen cycle with fuel economy hovering in the 30s at highway or city speeds. The regen cycle was dragging on very long again, so I cycled the engine to restart and the regen continued. Driving an excessively long highway route to my parents' house did nothing to stop the regen.

Then, a block from their house, the CEL illuminates.

I guess today I'm going to the local auto parts store to get the code read, and then will see what happens after that. Overnight low might be down to -5ºF, so I'm going to fill the fuel tank up with a good dose of Power Service white bottle.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I am wondering if EGT are not able to get hot enough in that weather to burn the soot efficiently?

That being said no regen issues have happened in even colder temps with mine so don't know? I did have a cel for dpf pressure sensor. 

Let us know the code.

If its failing to complete a regen the additive won't help. But as cold as it is I would use it as antigel insurance anyway.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

If you have to go to an auto parts store to get the codes read because you don't have a scan tool, just take it to the dealer for diagnostics. You'll save yourself a lot of grief trying to figure things out yourself without the proper tools. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

TDCruze said:


> I am wondering if EGT are not able to get hot enough in that weather to burn the soot efficiently?
> 
> That being said no regen issues have happened in even colder temps with mine so don't know? I did have a cel for dpf pressure sensor.
> 
> ...


Should work perfectly fine into the -50C territory. Even lower if you kept the fuel warm somehow.

The dpf is just a little 500C furnace. If the incoming temperature is say 30C vs 0C. That’s such a tiny difference it means little.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

JLL said:


> If you have to go to an auto parts store to get the codes read because you don't have a scan tool, just take it to the dealer for diagnostics.


Oh, hush 

It doesn't hurt to look.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Two codes: 

P244C: Exhaust Temperature Too Low for Particulate Filter Regeneration Bank 1
P144E: EGR Cooler Bypass Status Line Circuit Low

Code P244C indicates that during active DPF regeneration the PCM detected the exhaust gas temperature sensor 1 signal was lower than the minimum acceptable value.

Either it's too cold for the DPF to regenerate properly, or the sensor is having some screwy readings. Either way, I'll wait to see if the problem corrects itself in the next few days or the next couple weeks.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Oh, hush
> 
> It doesn't hurt to look.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> Two codes:
> 
> P244C: Exhaust Temperature Too Low for Particulate Filter Regeneration Bank 1
> P144E: EGR Cooler Bypass Status Line Circuit Low
> ...



Without seeing what the EGT was/is it's hard to say. Hope its a cold weather gremlin.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Without seeing what the EGT was/is it's hard to say. Hope its a cold weather gremlin.


If the sensor itself is bad, it looks like a $35 part. That's not bad, but I wonder how difficult it would be to change it. The parts diagram shows it on or near the top of the DPF, so that might make it a job that isn't terrible to do myself.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Without seeing what the EGT was/is


HOW WOULD I KNOW WHAT THE EGT WAS IF THE EGT SENSOR IS MALFUNCTIONING?!

LMAO - just a joke. Don't take my yelling at you seriously.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> HOW WOULD I KNOW WHAT THE EGT WAS IF THE EGT SENSOR IS MALFUNCTIONING?!
> 
> LMAO - just a joke. Don't take my yelling at you seriously.


Need an ultragauge or scangauge type thing. Maybe a good investment for all the things going on with your car? I like my ultragauge.

Probably get a way off low reading. However, if it wasn't working in range, I would suspect the CELs would reflect that too. But, sometimes they don't make complete sense.


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Two codes:
> 
> P244C: Exhaust Temperature Too Low for Particulate Filter Regeneration Bank 1
> P144E: EGR Cooler Bypass Status Line Circuit Low
> ...


This what AllData says for these codes:
DTC P244C
Catalyst Low Temperature During Regeneration 
DTC P144E
Closed Loop Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Regeneration Control At Limit - Stage 2 Low Temperature 

The second one is based on the difference between EGT sensor 1 and EGT sensor 2, so I think either of those could be bad. Or it could be an issue with the DOC/DPF itself or something else that's preventing it from getting up to temp. It should be able to regen even in really cold temps, though the cold temps could certainly exacerbate an existing problem. I think a ScanGauge or Bluetooth reader w/ BiScan/Gretio would really help if you want to attempt fixing it yourself, since you would be able to see what's going on with EGTs while it is trying to regen ... if one reading was really flaky or unrealistic it should stand out and you could try replacing the sensor.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> It should be able to regen even in really cold temps


Yes, we are not setting all-time record low temperatures here. This is well within a range of conditions where the car should function properly.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

A clogged fuel filter can cause all these symptoms. I would 100% look into that first.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Snipesy said:


> A clogged fuel filter can cause all these symptoms. I would 100% look into that first.


The fuel filter still has 60% life remaining on the monitor. That, and the engine is running just fine and not starved for power.

That is, until the afternoon. A fresh tank of fuel and the car was parked for a few hours. It was about 9ºF and I left to get pizza for dinner. Pulling away from a cold start in 1st gear and the engine was shuddering at about 2,000 rpm. Letting it run slow a couple more blocks and then it was running fine.

I can't wait to see what -5ºF does tomorrow morning.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> The fuel filter still has 60% life remaining on the monitor. That, and the engine is running just fine and not starved for power.
> 
> I can't wait to see what -5ºF does tomorrow morning.


Fuel filter "life" means nothing if you got a bad tank of fuel. It can clog it up quick. Still not sure what happened with mine, if it was gelled or moisture or just crud.

The low side fuel pressure was running higher than normal. Changed fuel filter, filled with different fuel and added 8 oz. power service white bottle. Having that ultragauge has been handy, only way I knew fuel pressure was off. 

Started fine at -26F tonight, plugged in. No fuel pressure issues.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

How easy do you think it is to replace this sensor:






2017-2019 GM Position 1 Exhaust Temperature Sensor 55595725 | OEM GM Parts


2017-2019 GM part # 55595725 - Position 1 Exhaust Temperature Sensor




www.gmpartsoutlet.net





If I can put less than $50 into the car for an easy fix attempt, that might be worth doing myself.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> How easy do you think it is to replace this sensor:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Should be pretty easy to change out that sensor. 

Take it the CEL has come back?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Take it the CEL has come back?


It never went away. I didn't clear any codes. We are getting slightly warmer weather this week and I think above freezing by next weekend. On Saturday I'll do more interstate driving so it will give a chance to attempt another regen cycle and see if the CEL is just the result of really cold weather.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> It never went away. I didn't clear any codes. We are getting slightly warmer weather this week and I think above freezing by next weekend. On Saturday I'll do more interstate driving so it will give a chance to attempt another regen cycle and see if the CEL is just the result of really cold weather.


Sometimes codes take several cycles without a recurrence to clear them indirectly. 

It may give quicker results to clear it and see if it comes back?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> It may give quicker results to clear it and see if it comes back?


The code reader from the parts store didn't have an option to clear it. It didn't even have an option to read the codes on the device.

The guy at the parts store just handed it to me and said "You know how to use it?" I thought maybe part of that was being 0ºF outside, and the other part was that white privilege kicking in that he trusted me. Walking to the car I noticed the back of the reader said "NOT FOR RETAIL SALE." I plugged it in and it blinked a bit and said "done" but there was no way to read the code from the display. I thought I did it wrong so I plugged it in again just to get the same result. I went back inside and told the guy and he said it had to be plugged into their computer to read the code.

I stood there thinking that's weird. Then, about 5 seconds later I said: "OH. That keeps people from stealing it..." and the guy said "Yes."


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

For the drive back home today I noticed that fuel economy was back up into the high 40s (typical winter range) for the entire drive. The car had the CEL on but wasn't trying to do any regen other than when it was started cold today and was warming everything up.

This makes me wonder if the car is still able to do a regen cycle to completion as detected by pressure sensors? Who knows if the temperature sensor is back to working correctly, because I didn't clear the code to see if it gets triggered again. But it does make me wonder if the ECU can still regen fine even if the one or two temperature sensors aren't working correctly.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Those code descriptions arent 100% accurate to the Cruze. 
Both of them related to catalyst temp. 244C is "catatlyst temp too low during Regen", 144E is "Regen controls at limits, stage 2 too cold"
It sounds like it thinks your catalyst is too cold (EGT2) 
Loose or clogged charged pipes/intercooler could cause this in addition to the fuel suggestion. And either EGT1 or EGT2


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> Those code descriptions arent 100% accurate to the Cruze.
> Both of them related to catalyst temp. 244C is "catatlyst temp too low during Regen", 144E is "Regen controls at limits, stage 2 too cold"
> It sounds like it thinks your catalyst is too cold (EGT2)
> Loose or clogged charged pipes/intercooler could cause this in addition to the fuel suggestion. And either EGT1 or EGT2


I reset the codes and went for about a 30 minute highway drive. At 55 mph I was achieving 25-30 mpg, indicating the car immediately went into a regen cycle after the reset.

The CEL came back, so I'm assuming it's the same codes.

So, suggestions? Should I order the #1 EGT sensor and replace it, because I can probably do that myself? It's a $32 part (and some shipping) so it could be a cheap attempt to repair it.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> clogged charged pipes/intercooler could cause this


Makes me wonder if it's intercooler icing. It has been really cold. Maybe I can wait until the thaw this weekend to see if it goes away.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I wouldn't just shotgun one of the sensors. You've only got a 50/50 chance of getting it right, and that's assuming a bad sensor is causing it. (I do replace a lot of EGTs across all the GM diesels though) wasting money is wasting money.
It sounds like a cheap scan tool that can read data would be a better long term investment since you like to check on these things yourself.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Now it's got me wondering if the issue I had the weeks prior (blowing blue smoke out the exhaust) is part of the problem. That was an issue that occurred with a certain set of conditions, and it went away. Did it leave lingering issues?


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> Now it's got me wondering if the issue I had the weeks prior (blowing blue smoke out the exhaust) is part of the problem. That was an issue that occurred with a certain set of conditions, and it went away. Did it leave lingering issues?


Would the EGT sensor reading incorrectly cause the engine to run rich and cause your blue smoke issue? 
Now it has completely failed and giving the CEL?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Would the EGT sensor reading incorrectly cause the engine to run rich and cause your blue smoke issue?


The blue smoke was caused by the car running rich for a regen or emissions heating cycle, and the very cold weather was likely making the extra fuel condense in the exhaust system. It was "wet stacking" for lack of a better term. Then, when I would pull away from a stop and give it some vigorous accelerator input, the fuel condensed in the exhaust would billow out the exhaust pipe in a cloud of blue smoke. 

That's the nearest I can figure out what was happening, because the technician at the dealership wrote in the work invoice that there would be emissions error messages present that were not there.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I would be a bit surprised if these two strange issues were not related.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

TDCruze said:


> Would the EGT sensor reading incorrectly cause the engine to run rich and cause your blue smoke issue?


The EGT doesn’t really affect the engine. It’s really just to monitor Regen temps and catalyst operation.

It could mean longer regens... Where spilling out blue smoke is not uncommon. Especially in cold. I mean a Regen is basically running infinitely rich.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

What do you think the odds are that I continue driving and get the dreaded DPF FULL warning sign?


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> What do you think the odds are that I continue driving and get the dreaded DPF FULL warning sign?
> 
> View attachment 290753


Probably very good odds if you are not completing the regen each time you drive it.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Probably very good odds if you are not completing the regen each time you drive it.


I just don't have the time and energy to deal with this for a while. I will have to wait and see what happens.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> I just don't have the time and energy to deal with this for a while. I will have to wait and see what happens.


Be super handy to have a gauge/reader that you cold monitor soot % and EGTs. Then you could see exactly what is going on.

I still need to get something that lets me see soot % myself. I like having all sensor info at my fingertips!


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

The emissions component warranty is longer and/or combined with the 60k powertrain warranty, right? If I end up needing a new DPF because of this I wonder if that's going to be a covered issue. Just spitballing for the worst case scenario.


----------



## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

DPF is covered under powertrain, sensors are hit or miss, but most are covered.

This isn't great news I'm about to share, but keep in mind that you will be on the hook for a ~$150 diagnostic fee for the dealer to plug in a scan tool if it turns out to be a non-warranty sensor, and they won't tell you if it's warranty or not until they have done so.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

phil1734 said:


> DPF is covered under powertrain, sensors are hit or miss, but most are covered.


EDITED

The emissions warranty doesn't apply because it's only for 2 years or 24,000 miles (8 years; 80,000 miles on covered major parts), and the sensors are not a covered major part.

However, the powertrain warranty (60,000 miles) covers the following: *"Parts of the Emissions Reduction System such as the emissions reduction fluid tank, injectors, sensors including NOx and exhaust, and the Exhaust Particulate Filter."*

So, it looks like the relevant sensors are covered by the powertrain warranty.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> I would be a bit surprised if these two strange issues were not related.


I'm going to make the polite ask to the manager if they can refund my prior visit, or bill it as warranty work.

*Early Feb: "Hey, this car is doing funny stuff with the exhaust (blue smoke) that it's not supposed to be doing."
(they find nothing wrong)
A week later: "Now the CEL is on for exhaust stuff that's going wrong..."*


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> I'm going to make the polite ask to the manager if they can refund my prior visit, or bill it as warranty work.
> 
> *Early Feb: "Hey, this car is doing funny stuff with the exhaust (blue smoke) that it's not supposed to be doing."
> (they find nothing wrong)
> A week later: "Now the CEL is on for exhaust stuff that's going wrong..."*


Likely be a long shot, but worth a try.

Seems most places can't or won't do any real diagnostics without a CEL on. Most seem to believe no light no problem, but many things seem to go wrong, and don't always give a CEL!


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

The EGT sensors are covered by powertrain, the DOC/DPF is 8/80


----------



## 14cruzeoilburner (Sep 3, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Driving south today in bitter cold, about -4ºF. I spent at least an hour of highway driving with the engine up to temperature. Halfway through the drive, the engine seems to start a regen cycle with fuel economy hovering in the 30s at highway or city speeds. The regen cycle was dragging on very long again, so I cycled the engine to restart and the regen continued. Driving an excessively long highway route to my parents' house did nothing to stop the regen.
> 
> Then, a block from their house, the CEL illuminates.
> 
> I guess today I'm going to the local auto parts store to get the code read, and then will see what happens after that. Overnight low might be down to -5ºF, so I'm going to fill the fuel tank up with a good dose of Power Service white bottle.


i had the same problem gen 1 2.0L diesel. Ended up going to the steelership. The reset the ECM and forced regen. Been perfect ever since. Of course it cost $125.00. They said there was nothing wrong with it. Frig-in A holes


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Dealership had the car all day today and the diesel technician worked on it. Second-hand report from his work (he already left for the day) is that he did multiple things and nothing seemed to indicate what the problem was or how to fix it. They did a regen cycle (probably forced regen, right there in the shop) to heat the DPF up and when everything was reporting it was hot as can be the temperature sensor was still reading low for unknown reasons. I've got the car back to go to work in the morning but they need it tomorrow afternoon to do more things, and the technician had multiple phone calls with tech support at HQ so maybe they'll have an answer.

The service writer did seem to think that the tech replaced the #1 sensor as part of his trouble-shooting. I asked him how he did that, because when I was contemplating doing it myself that same dealership told me they didn't have the part in stock and it would take until next week to get it. They didn't just pull a part out of their backside, so I don't think they replaced the sensor. I looked under the hood and it appeared to be the same sensor so I doubt it was replaced (yet).


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Today they cut me loose with the car while they order the sensor (should be there tomorrow). Their tech worked with GM at HQ and they think it's some sort of "glitch," which doesn't sound like a great explanation. 

First, they said the tech tested the fuel and found biofuel in the tank. Well, no kidding, because every fuel station is selling biofuel. The ASTM specifications for diesel fuel were revised to include up to 5% without any labeling required, and then the stickers can be displayed on the pump for a 5-20% biofuel blend. Likewise, GM warranties the car for up to 20% biofuel.

They said the sensor appears to be reading fine but is still somehow causing problems, so they've confirmed it's under the powertrain warranty and they're going to replace it to satisfy GM as a warranty item to be billed that way.


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Today they cut me loose with the car while they order the sensor (should be there tomorrow). Their tech worked with GM at HQ and they think it's some sort of "glitch," which doesn't sound like a great explanation.
> 
> First, they said the tech tested the fuel and found biofuel in the tank. Well, no kidding, because every fuel station is selling biofuel. The ASTM specifications for diesel fuel were revised to include up to 5% without any labeling required, and then the stickers can be displayed on the pump for a 5-20% biofuel blend. Likewise, GM warranties the car for up to 20% biofuel.
> 
> They said the sensor appears to be reading fine but is still somehow causing problems, so they've confirmed it's under the powertrain warranty and they're going to replace it to satisfy GM as a warranty item to be billed that way.


If you did end up with a substantial percentage of biodiesel, even if within the 20%, it's possible that it's gelling in the filter and causing issues with fuel delivery that would prohibit a successful regen. The fuel would ungel in the heated dealer shop, so they wouldn't see the issue when they did a regen. That's just a thought.
It could also be a "glitch" that hopefully a new sensor will solve. In my experience with my own regen issue (much different than yours but a regen issue nonetheless), there has yet to be any explanation but "glitch." I haven't updated my own thread in a while, but it's only gotten weirder. It's actually improved recently, but even that's weird.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> If you did end up with a substantial percentage of biodiesel, even if within the 20%, it's possible that it's gelling in the filter and causing issues with fuel delivery that would prohibit a successful regen. The fuel would ungel in the heated dealer shop, so they wouldn't see the issue when they did a regen. That's just a thought.


Hard to know. I can't tell if the dealership is replacing that sensor because GM tech support told them to do it, or if they're doing it to get everything they did billed as warranty work. The service writer did mention they wanted to get the technician paid for his diagnostic time, so it sounds like they want to bill this to GM instead of me again after they couldn't find anything wrong with my car blowing blue smoke out the tailpipe.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> If you did end up with a substantial percentage of biodiesel


There is literally no where that I can buy fuel without biodiesel in it. Every single pump all over town has the 5-20% stickers with the exception of my local HyVee grocery, and even then that fuel can have up to 5% without it being labeled as such. I have no way to purchase fuel that I know is exclusively petroleum.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I remember the last time I was in IL, we had to grab diesel and it was B20 - I know I was worried, at first, about if it would affect our fuel economy. The cold...wasn't quite an issue. It was like...100 degrees or something insane in May.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> I remember the last time I was in IL, we had to grab diesel and it was B20


I don't know any places that sell a specific 20% blend at retail. Oil companies have that as off-road fuel for farmers, but you can't get it from the pump. The stickers on all the pumps are 5-20% meaning you are probably getting 20% or close to it in summer and dropping down to 5% or less in winter. Minnesota runs 5% year-round as (I believe) the first state to require that in all diesel sold.

For about a 5-year span of time the state offered a motor fuel tax rebate for biodiesel blends of "greater than 10%." This meant 11% and that's why I got a fleet card account from an oil company so I could access their pumps for that fuel blend. The retailers of 11% got the motor fuel tax rebated so they could price their diesel lower and still pocket some extra profit, benefitting the owners and the oil company. But that tax break expired in 2019 and I don't think it was renewed (because our state is OUT. OF. MONEY.)

The 11% fuel blend only gelled up once when it was -22ºF and the oil company said they blended it to be good to -18ºF with the weather forecast. I never had any other problems with fuel other than a tank from Kroger that gave me some cold-weather misfiring and a tank from Philipps 66 that gave me lots of shuddering while using cruise control at slower speeds.


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> There is literally no where that I can buy fuel without biodiesel in it. Every single pump all over town has the 5-20% stickers with the exception of my local HyVee grocery, and even then that fuel can have up to 5% without it being labeled as such. I have no way to purchase fuel that I know is exclusively petroleum.


5% wouldn't be an issue, but 20% could be ... stations (or rather their suppliers) should adjust the percentage based on weather, and use appropriate additives in their fuel supply for the time of year. I'm just saying it's possible that a fuel supplier dropped the ball. I've had issues with the cars I rarely drive because I go through so little fuel that there's still summer fuel in them come winter. If it's persistently cold, it would only take one off batch as buildup in filters can be hard to break down even with de-gel treatments. It's just a thought, that if it persists, you could try changing the fuel filter early. Though I would think now that it's been in the heated shop it should be fully ungelled and wouldn't gel again as long as you don't have the misfortune of hitting another off batch.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

_shrug emoji_

Biodiesel too new (to this scale) and too many different production methods.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

If I recall, this was a Mobil station and it said B20 on the pump handle, but who knows what the "fine print" said on that label, since it was close to three years ago now.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> If I recall, this was a Mobil station


I found a Mobil station in 2018 that had a label on the pump stating the B20 diesel was a non-Mobil product - probably some local oil company blending B20 for bulk delivery, like is done to farmers. If it were a FS product, that's great. I passed because I didn't know where it came from.

There is a weird Shell station in the town north of me where the huge sign showing the prices says "DIESEL - NON-SHELL PRODUCT" in huge letters.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

The sensor will be here this weekend - it missed being ordered for whatever miscommunication.

GM technical support seems to think this is a combination of three separate factors:
1. Cold temperature - they said the code was set when the air temperature was -11ºF. That's not possible because it was not that cold when the CEL came on.
2. Short trip - they said the code was set when the engine was not up to temperature. That's not possible because I had driven the car for about an hour before the CEL came on.
3. Biodiesel - biofuel in the fuel blend. I don't know what to do about that because they warranty the car to operate on biodiesel, and I can't control what is in the fuel blend that I buy from the pump.

The car seems to be behaving itself now that the weather is a little bit warmer (in single digits this morning). I guess the dealership is replacing the sensor so they can get their labor covered under warranty coverage from GM. To do that, they have to replace the sensor even if it appears to be working correctly now and when they tested it.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I guess let them do their thing and hope it takes care of it. At least they are making an honest try at it!


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> I guess let them do their thing and hope it takes care of it. At least they are making an honest try at it!


It saves me from paying the bill and there is a possibility I get the money back from the prior complaint (blue smoke out the tail pipe).

Makes me wish I had just ignored the CEL and let it go. After a couple weeks it would probably disappear on its own.


----------



## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

I have seen both Dcruzes I have owned not heat up properly when there is a heavy heat load on the engine. Cold temps and high heat setting coolant never came up to temp even after an hour of driving. I watch how much heat I ask from the engine and drive a little higher rpms when it is cold. If the coolant does not heat up after an hour then what about the oil?


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> It saves me from paying the bill and there is a possibility I get the money back from the prior complaint (blue smoke out the tail pipe).
> 
> Makes me wish I had just ignored the CEL and let it go. After a couple weeks it would probably disappear on its own.


Getting the money back from before would be nice.

That's why I usually clear them at least once to confirm the trouble, and rule out a fluke glitch. Especially when extremely cold.



Cruz15 said:


> I have seen both Dcruzes I have owned not heat up properly when there is a heavy heat load on the engine.
> 
> If the coolant does not heat up after an hour then what about the oil?


Yep, takes a looong time if ever depending on outside temp. A winter front over the grille helps, i had one on my gen 1. The gen 2 is much better, but below -20F it still struggles to get the engine up to temp.

Oil temp will be close to coolant since the oil cooler uses the coolant.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Getting the money back from before would be nice.
> 
> That's why I usually clear them at least once to confirm the trouble, and rule out a fluke glitch. Especially when extremely cold.


I did clear the code. After that, it was back in regen when I pulled out of the parking lot because I figured the ECU was immediately running a regen to clear the DPF and to check if the temperature sensor was working. It was about 10ºF out and I took it for a highway drive on the loop around the city. At 55 mph it was achieving about 30 mpg and in regen for at least 20 minutes - then the CEL was on again.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Oil temp will be close to coolant since the oil cooler uses the coolant.


Does the oil cooler have a thermostat for bypass? My Mazda RX-7 had an oil-to-air cooler and it had a thermostat that would open at 180ºF if I am remembering correctly. It bypassed (or mostly bypassed) the cooler if oil temperature was lower than that.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

too many of these stories with diesel engines and gm, whether the 1.6, 2.0 or the trucks

they dont know how to fix them, it sucks, but its the reality

dealer told me i needed a new dpf, i said release the car to me

drove it (while on the countdown to death) gear or two lower to keep temps up for 90 mins, cleared itself

and was fine for the next 5000 miles when i deleted it.

new dpf, huh?


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> Does the oil cooler have a thermostat for bypass? My Mazda RX-7 had an oil-to-air cooler and it had a thermostat that would open at 180ºF if I am remembering correctly. It bypassed (or mostly bypassed) the cooler if oil temperature was lower than that.


I don't believe so, because the oil cooler will actually act as an oil "heater" until the engine warms up. Getting the oil up to temp faster. This is because, coolant normally heats up much quicker than the oil in an engine.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> too many of these stories with diesel engines and gm, whether the 1.6, 2.0 or the trucks
> 
> they dont know how to fix them, it sucks, but its the reality


It isn't like others aren't going through the same thing. VW is the notable brand with lots and LOTS of problems.

A coworker of mine had a beautiful problem with her 2014 Jetta during the Polar Vortex. CEL came on and the glow plug lamp started flashing, which is a VW method of signaling trouble. Car went into limp mode and had to be restarted multiple times on her way to work, home from work, and in the next couple days. Dealership told her "Oh, it's a cold weather problem. Lots of these cars have that issue now so we will get you in on Tuesday." Turns out that as early as 2012, VW knew they had problems with moisture freezing in the intercooler because they have a split EGR system where some low-pressure EGR goes into the intake before the intercooler. This can result in intercoolers that gather water and freeze, or liquid water that can be drawn into the engine and hydrolock the engine on start or during running. VW did nothing to fix this issue by changing the parts, and for several years they continued to produce cars with this defect and only addressed the issue on a case-by-case basis. If you have this problem during the warranty, they'll fix it. If you have this problem out of warranty, get screwed because they don't care.

At 80,000 miles she is lucky the extended warranty covered the issue. It was a $1,800 repair otherwise.

At one point the car wouldn't start in the morning and she had to basically floor the accelerator to get it to start. That was the point that she could have drawn water or ice into the engine and possibly wrecked it with a lot of damage from hydrolock. Makes me wonder if her extended warranty covers engine replacement, and what she would get out of that deal.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Oil cooler doesn't have any thermostats.
Cooler is bolted to rear of block, filtered oil exits the oil filter, is sent through the block into the oil cooler for conditioning, and directed back into the block to feed the galleries. Coolant comes from in the block and passes through the cooler on its way to the heater core inlet.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

When removing the sensor, the threads stripped out with it. They have to order a new DPF to replace.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

The dealership gave me a Bolt EV as a loaner after confirming I was ok with that. I said it was fine because I had stuff to do yesterday, but then I have to go out-of-town today to take my dad to a VA appointment. No problem, there are EV chargers at my work so I’ll have enough range to do that.

This morning I find that both EV chargers are broken and I do not have enough range to go where I planned today. FML


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> The dealership gave me a Bolt EV as a loaner after confirming I was ok with that. I said it was fine because I had stuff to do yesterday, but then I have to go out-of-town today to take my dad to a VA appointment. No problem, there are EV chargers at my work so I’ll have enough range to do that.
> 
> This morning I find that both EV chargers are broken and I do not have enough range to go where I planned today. FML


omg


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> The dealership gave me a Bolt EV as a loaner after confirming I was ok with that. I said it was fine because I had stuff to do yesterday, but then I have to go out-of-town today to take my dad to a VA appointment. No problem, there are EV chargers at my work so I’ll have enough range to do that.
> 
> This morning I find that both EV chargers are broken and I do not have enough range to go where I planned today. FML


Extension cord?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Extension cord?


There is a 120v charger cord in the trunk but where I work doesn't even have a single outlet anywhere outside, like on the parking lot light poles that you frequently see. Believe me, I looked, because I was going to get the oil pan heater for my car and use it there and maybe at home because the landlord offered to put in a 120v outlet at my parking space if I needed it.

120v gives you about 3-4 miles of range per hour. It's 50 hours to fully charge the vehicle from a 120v outlet.


----------



## marmalou (Dec 30, 2020)

😬😬😬


----------



## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

If you can't find one along your route, any dealer that sells the Bolt is required to provide free courtesy charging. Most of the chargers are fairly slow, and not all are accessible after business hours. They aren't listed on any EV charging sites but it might be something you can look into.

The Bolt owners I know make good use of them and schedule picking up lunch or dinner to eat in the car and give it 20-30 minutes to gather electricity.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

phil1734 said:


> any dealer that sells the Bolt is required to provide free courtesy charging


Yeah, the dealership loaning me the car has two chargers indoors, but both of then are just basic 240v chargers. One of them is blocked by a Camaro sitting there for about a week that's "Waiting on parts." I didn't want to have to maneuver around to plug into the other charger and then wait about 4 hours for it to charge.

The west side of town has a 150kW DC charger (the Bolt can peak at about 50kW of charging from that). It was nice to pay 43¢ per kWh to do a fast charge. The price of that electricity has to rival cocaine on a price-per-gram basis.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

phil1734 said:


> any dealer that sells the Bolt is required to provide free courtesy charging


This really is holding back adoption of EVs. Chevy didn't do anything to require the dealers to have DC fast chargers or make them available to people by installing them where they are accessible.

I realize things cost money, but GM could have done far better by investing in DC fast chargers that are in places at dealerships to where they are available and accessible to Bolt owners.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Charging networks and availability need to improve significantly to get these cars to be convenient enough for wide spead adoption by the general public. 

Otherwise how is the Bolt?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Hah, I just found this adapter that lets you plug the 120v cord into a 240v socket.

This seems to be... kinda dangerous? I mean, leave this lying around for someone who doesn't know what it is for and I can see a fire happening?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Otherwise how is the Bolt?


Terrible for the MSRP.

This one is $43,000 on the window sticker. Interior is absolute garbage (which I hear is greatly improved on the 2022 model arriving soon) and I don't care for the leather seats. They are heated, but still not ventilated so they'd be sweaty in summer. The stereo is Bose and sounds worse than my Cruze. Range is nothing special and using the heat really knocks it down because it's just a resistance heater when it could have been using the AC system as a reversible heat pump for more efficiency. 

"Fast" charging is still capped at 50 kW when Tesla has been doing far greater for far longer - even the junk Nissan Leaf fast charges at 100 kW. The battery pack is water cooled so I think they could have linked that to the AC system as a sort of power chiller for the battery pack to pump some extra current into it without it overheating.

I know that the prior few years had the $7,500 tax credit to bring the price down, and GM was also discounting these by $10,000 at a lot of dealerships, so the $43k MRSP isn't really what people pay. It's still way out of my price range as I didn't qualify for the tax credit when it was available. Then, I go to my work and find BOTH the chargers are out of order, so I've really got no place to charge it. If I could get an affordable EV and have chargers that aren't out-of-order where I work, that would be fine.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> Terrible for the MSRP.
> 
> This one is $43,000 on the window sticker. Interior is absolute garbage (which I hear is greatly improved on the 2022 model arriving soon) and I don't care for the leather seats. They are heated, but still not ventilated so they'd be sweaty in summer. The stereo is Bose and sounds worse than my Cruze. Range is nothing special and using the heat really knocks it down because it's just a resistance heater when it could have been using the AC system as a reversible heat pump for more efficiency.
> 
> ...


theyre $24k out the door errywhere (with the credits)


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> Hah, I just found this adapter that lets you plug the 120v cord into a 240v socket.
> 
> This seems to be... kinda dangerous? I mean, leave this lying around for someone who doesn't know what it is for and I can see a fire happening?
> 
> View attachment 290914


No, it's fine - the EVSE can handle both 120V and 240V. At least the Volt's can, so I don't expect the Bolt to be any different.



boraz said:


> theyre $24k out the door errywhere (with the credits)


GM is out of credits in the US (along with Tesla), so none of those exist here, unfortunately.

Thankfully they did when I got my Volt. Made the ~$36k car around $25,500 (because it was a dealer loaner, so it was already decreased a few thousand, down to about $33k).

For '22, the base price drops $5k with more standard features.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

the Bolt does use the A/C system refrigerant and a battery pack coolant chiller to regulate pack temp during charging as well as vehicle operation.

DC fast charging option is limited to 50kW to my understanding based on the availability of infrastructure(why offer more when more isnt really available) and because high charging currents/speeds reduce battery life. slower charging offers more stable and predictable battery lifetimes.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

"I'll just charge the car while I'm at the gym. Commerce Bank has a charger across the street."

It’s broken…


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> DC fast charging option is limited to 50kW to my understanding based on the availability of infrastructure(why offer more when more isnt really available


The Charge America station I visited today is 150 kW. They are out there, up to 350 kW in some locations.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> No, it's fine - the EVSE can handle both 120V and 240V. At least the Volt's can, so I don't expect the Bolt to be any different.


I meant like someone finding that adapter in the garage and using it to plug a pressure washer into a 240v socket!


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> theyre $24k out the door errywhere (with the credits)


I didn’t qualify for the $7,500 tax credit.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

The launch of the Bolt in 2017 seemed to hint that faster DC charging was coming. The manual states a DC charger of at least 80 kW for fast charging, and then initial rollout was about 50 kW charging before tapering. The hint was that field testing and monitoring would later “unlock” (with firmware update) maybe 60, 70, or 80 kW charging profiles. 

The 2020 model (what I’m driving) came with a slightly upgraded 66 kW battery due to some chemistry changes. Users report a slightly more aggressive charging profile before the tapering begins, as well as faster charging in cold temperatures. Still no increase in charge current, though.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> I meant like someone finding that adapter in the garage and using it to plug a pressure washer into a 240v socket!


Yeah, that wouldn't be good, but...can't protect everyone. Definitely something that would stay with the charger, in my mind.

But the '22 now comes with a dual-plug charger, so it has both plugs now.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

boraz said:


> too many of these stories with diesel engines and gm, whether the 1.6, 2.0 or the trucks
> 
> they dont know how to fix them, it sucks, but its the reality
> 
> ...


DPf failure is insanely rare. And it seems every time I do end up suspecting dpf or doc failure..., It ends up being something else.

And what happens is people like you would get a new dpf. And all of a sudden it works fine??? But there was nothing wrong with the old one.

So much wasted money. It’s why I made Gretio and BiScan. Because GM can’t be assed to train their techs apparently.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Snipesy said:


> DPf failure is insanely rare. And it seems every time I do end up suspecting dpf or doc failure..., It ends up being something else.
> 
> And what happens is people like you would get a new dpf. And all of a sudden it works fine??? But there was nothing wrong with the old one.
> 
> So much wasted money. It’s why I made Gretio and BiScan. Because GM can’t be assed to train their techs apparently.


Nothing was wrong with the DPF… until the tech stripped the threads out of the temperature sensor bung. It’s being replaced because they broke it. Probably not on purpose, but that’s their problem.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Interesting outcome: looks like the #2 EGT sensor was replaced. From the service invoice:

*FOUND P244C P144E IN ECM. PERFORMED REGEN FINDING NORMAL TEMPERATURES. FREEZE FRAME RECORDS SHOWED 3F AMBIENT TEMPS. TESTED FUEL AT 33 API, TECHNICALLY BIO FUEL AND COULD BE CONTRIBUTING TO PROBLEM, ALONG WITH IN TOWN DRIVING, AND SUB ZERO TEMPERATURES. AT THIS TIME LET VEHICLE SIT OVERNIGHT FINDING ALL EGT SENSORS READING 20F EXCEPT NUMBER 2, SHOWING 80F. UPON REPLACING EGT SENSOR 2, THREADS IMMEDIATELY WANTED TO PULL OUT AFTER LOOSENING SENSOR. HEATED WITH TORCH AND GOT ALMOST 1 FULL TURN BEFORE FITTING LOCKED UP AND DESTROYED EGT BUNG. CONVERTER MUST BE REPLACED AT THIS TIME. REPLACED CATALYTIC CONVERTER AND EGT 2.*

First thing is that the driving conditions this occurred in were not "in town driving." It was full highway driving that it happened. TWICE. Second is that I have no control over the fuel other than buying from the pump labeled "DIESEL" but I'm not going back to the station where I fueled up and then had this problem.

Interesting that they cold-soaked the entire car overnight and the EGT sensor #2 read 80ºF when ambient temperature was 20ºF.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That right there is a surefire sign that the sensor is bad, haha.

Kind of like how the last time I had to replace the NOx2 sensor, it was reading 10 times _higher_ than the NOx1 sensor, essentially implying the SCR was _creating_ NOx emissions.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I called a bad EGT2....bam! LOL

Regardless of how you buy your fuel, or how much or how little control you have over it, fuel isn't GMs problem. That's them covering their ass to put and fuel related future issues on you.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> Regardless of how you buy your fuel, or how much or how little control you have over it, fuel isn't GMs problem. That's them covering their ass to put and fuel related future issues on you.


You paraphrased exactly what I told them.

*"I buy fuel from the pumps that say DIESEL. The owner's manual of the car notes that fuel can contain up to 5% biodiesel without it being marked, so I have no way of ensuring that the fuel I buy is 100% petroleum. The same owner's manual says fuel containing 5-20% biodiesel is acceptable, and that's the overwhelming majority of fuel pumps in both cities (both truck stops, every Shell, every Circle K, every Casey's, everyone who sells diesel fuel PERIOD) that have the required stickers."*

Their nonsense about the cold weather is total BS. Ten degrees F difference in the intake air temperature doesn't make a bit of difference.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> You paraphrased exactly what I told them.
> 
> *"I buy fuel from the pumps that say DIESEL. The owner's manual of the car notes that fuel can contain up to 5% biodiesel without it being marked, so I have no way of ensuring that the fuel I buy is 100% petroleum. The same owner's manual says fuel containing 5-20% biodiesel is acceptable, and that's the overwhelming majority of fuel pumps in both cities (both truck stops, every Shell, every Circle K, every Casey's, everyone who sells diesel fuel PERIOD) that have the required stickers."*
> 
> Their nonsense about the cold weather is total BS. Ten degrees F difference in the intake air temperature doesn't make a bit of difference.


People like to sound smart... Don’t let it go to your head.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Snipesy said:


> People like to sound smart... Don’t let it go to your head.


I'm sorry...I hate sounding dumb. ☹


😂😂😂


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Ma v e n said:


> I'm sorry...I hate sounding dumb. ☹
> 
> 
> 😂😂😂


Lol whoops. I meant to quote his other post about the service invoice.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)




----------

