# AMSOIL now has an ATF Recommendation for the CTD



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

It seems that AMSOIL is filling in the gaps for products. There was a rumor rearlier this year that they were working on a 5W-30 Dexos2 equivalent oil, but they've now verified that their ATF is suitable for use in this transmission as well, which is good since the GM stuff is ridiculously expensive. 

The reason why it's important for AMSOIL to recommend a product is because products recommended by AMSOIL are also backed by AMSOIL's warranty as stated. For exmaple, the Signature Series ATF is rated for 2x severe service drain intervals, which will now be covered on the CTD. The OE fluid would serve as an OE fluid replacement. In either case, here are the two fluids that AMSOIL recommends in the AF40 transmission in the Cruze Turbo Diesel:

AMSOIL OE Fuel Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid
AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. If you are interested in ordering, don't forget that you can save ~25% with a Preferred Customer account. The cost of the count more than pays for itself with the discount. 

AMSOIL Preferred Customer Registration

I will work on finding the capacity of that transmission as the specification isn't yet listed.


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

What is the real difference between the two fluids recommended? I plan to drain and fill every 30K since I have had Aisin transmissions before and know they last over 200k if you take care of them.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

It says Aisin warner aw-1 transmissions. Is out af40-6 a variant of the aw-1?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

DJSW said:


> What is the real difference between the two fluids recommended? I plan to drain and fill every 30K since I have had Aisin transmissions before and know they last over 200k if you take care of them.


The difference is the quality of the oil, to put it bluntly. It is the same difference as you'll find between AMSOIL's OE engine oil and their Signature Series engine oil. The former is a OEM drain interval, while the latter is a 25,000 mile oil. With regard to transmissions, the Signature Series handles extreme heat in excess of 350F without failing to protect and lubricate. It is for this reason that it is rated for 2x severe service drain intervals. The OE fluid will be a higher volatility fluid that will be very close to the OE fluid filled in these transmissions. The Signature Series fluid will also shift much better in cold conditions and will have lower parasitic drag for a slight fuel economy increase. 

If you're going to drive under normal conditions and change it every 30k, the OE would be fine. 

GM seems to group the Diesel's transmission under the same category as the 6T40E in the 1.8 and 1.4T powered Cruzes, which would make it 45k miles severe service or 90k miles normal service. Personally, I would use the signature series fluid at 90k miles. That fluid is an entirely different league from other transmission fluids. The same rules don't apply when the fluid just doesn't break down no matter what you throw at it. 



money_man said:


> It says Aisin warner aw-1 transmissions. Is out af40-6 a variant of the aw-1?


AW-1 is the fluid specification, while the AF40-6 is the model.


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

So to sound stupid, (I have heard many different opinions on this), when I switch to Amsoil do I need to do multiple drain and fills to get as much of the stock GM fluid out? Or can I just drain and fill with out worry?


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## hulkss (Jan 30, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I will work on finding the capacity of that transmission as the specification isn't yet listed.


GM Powertrain lists the fluid capacity at 6.96 kilograms including the cooler. Dexron VI density is .846 kg/liter. That makes the capacity 6.96/.846 = 8.227 liters. That's 8.7 quarts.
From what I can determine, just under three quarts drains out when you pull the drain plug.

Here's how to do it: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...28657-how-check-trans-level-2.html#post837801


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Yes to above, it's 2.1 or 2.2 gallons if I remember correctly. You get 2.7-3L or 1/3 of total capacity out each drain and fill. I've read you can bump the starter without starting it to get most of the rest out of the torque converter but haven't tried it. 

To another poster AW-1 is the GM fluid for the transmission, not the transmission model number.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Yea, my mistake


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

i will definitely be replacing my fluid with amsoil when the time comes (only have 5300km right now)


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I am glad you posted this. I want to change my tranny fluid, but I am a bit concerned about doing something wrong or putting the wrong quantity in. At 63K miles, I am overdue.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Get the dealership to do it


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> Get the dealership to do it


The dealership will insist that you run their AW-1 fluid. I didn't quite realize just how expensive it is. A little birdie told me the dealer charges $30 per quart for it. You might find a very gracious dealer who will give it to you for $25 a quart if you service the transmission there, but don't count on it. Amazon has it for $25 a quart. Every 30k miles will get expensive rather quickly. 

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-4062-Automatic-Transmission-Fluid/dp/B008BZQTSS

I am not allowed to post the prices of AMSOIL products, but you can follow the links to see how much you can get it for, and that's not including the Preferred Customer discount.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

jesus!!!! $30 a quart is insane


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

:eek7: $30!! Wow...I would go broke! Amsoil is not only a better product in my book, but also way cheaper!


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

He's right I've found it for 22/quart from GM parts suppliers online but that's the dirt cheap rock bottom price I've found!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> He's right I've found it for 22/quart from GM parts suppliers online but that's the dirt cheap rock bottom price I've found!


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that $22/quart didn't include shipping either...


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

When the times comes (I'm about 8000 miles short of 30000), I will def. be getting in on this. As someone posted earlier, I'll just take it to the dealer and have them put it in for me. They have been awesome about using my own oil, so I see no reason why they would give me a hard time with this. Then I should be good until 100000 miles!


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

synthetic is logical in engines, diffs, transfer cases, standard transmission, etc...more slippery is gooder...(even if not cost effective)

not so much in a automatic transmission designed around a specific fluid and its specific properties


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

boraz said:


> synthetic is logical in engines, diffs, transfer cases, standard transmission, etc...more slippery is gooder...(even if not cost effective)
> 
> not so much in a automatic transmission designed around a specific fluid and its specific properties


I don't intend to insult you, but I really wish people like you would do some research before they come out and say whatever they want. I'd be willing to bet you anything the OE fluid is synthetic. The fluid in all GM vehicles for the past several years have required DEX6 fluid, which IS a synthetic fluid. 

Automatic transmission fluid formulation depends on far more than just the lubricity of the fluid. Like engine oils, transmission fluids also have additives that are designed to help the fluid perform to a certain specifications. The transmission needs to protect the drive chain/sprockets, the differential, transfer heat, serve as a hydraulic fluid that can be pumped, reduce friction for fuel economy purposes, provide friction for clutch plates, and provide comfort, performance, and protection under a very large range of temperatures. While your engine oil will operate at a very small temperature range, a transmission will need to cover all of those factors under a very wide range of temperatures. It is by a long shot the most complex fluid that goes into a car, so to have you proclaim with no supporting evidence that synthetic fluids are bad for automatic transmissions (despite their very wide use in the industry, including in your own vehicle) is not just baffling, but demonstrably ignorant. 

This fluid has been recommended by AMSOIL for the CTD after thorough testing to ensure that it meets the minimum requirements for all of the criteria I mentioned above as specified by the AW-1 fluid specification. If AMSOIL's fluid would not perform as well or better than the AW-1 fluid specified for this transmission in all aforementioned criteria, they would not be recommending it. For example, while I recommend AMSOIL Synchromesh for our M32 manual transmission (which we have unanimously concluded is the best OE replacement), AMSOIL does not have an official recommendation for that transmission as none of their fluids meet the specifications of the OE fluid, likely because AMSOIL simply doesn't make anything with such a low viscosity that would be suitable for a manual transmission. The fact that they recommended their two Fuel Efficient ATFs for this application also means they accept liability should anything happen as a result of this fluid, which is not a liability they will take on simply to make a few bucks off of a *very *small market. AMSOIL's recommendation means that even their OE Fuel Efficient ATF meets the minimum specifications of the AW-1 transmission fluid that is in your vehicle right now. 

There's a heck of a lot more to synthetic lubricants, and even moreso synthetic automatic transmission fluids, than simply how "slippery" it is. 

For the record, the word you were looking for is not "gooder," but "better."


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I don't intend to insult you, but I really wish people like you would do some research before they come out and say whatever they want. I'd be willing to bet you anything the OE fluid is synthetic. The fluid in all GM vehicles for the past several years have required DEX6 fluid, which IS a synthetic fluid.
> 
> Automatic transmission fluid formulation depends on far more than just the lubricity of the fluid. Like engine oils, transmission fluids also have additives that are designed to help the fluid perform to a certain specifications. The transmission needs to protect the drive chain/sprockets, the differential, transfer heat, serve as a hydraulic fluid that can be pumped, reduce friction for fuel economy purposes, provide friction for clutch plates, and provide comfort, performance, and protection under a very large range of temperatures. While your engine oil will operate at a very small temperature range, a transmission will need to cover all of those factors under a very wide range of temperatures. It is by a long shot the most complex fluid that goes into a car, so to have you proclaim with no supporting evidence that synthetic fluids are bad for automatic transmissions (despite their very wide use in the industry, including in your own vehicle) is not just baffling, but demonstrably ignorant.
> 
> ...


so youre saying that gm puts dexron 6 in the vehicle and at the same time they specifically tell the customer not to use dexron 6?

no, i chose gooder on porpoise.


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

I found no recommendation to service the automatic transmission in my Diesel. I have read that the Aisin is sealed and changing the fluid is not recommended.

Obviously, if I were to do this, I would naturally choose Amsoil to be my fluid of choice, but it still begs the question, why would I want to? I seriously doubt anybody on this forum uses their car for "severe" duty.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

boraz said:


> so youre saying that gm puts dexron 6 in the vehicle and at the same time they specifically tell the customer not to use dexron 6?
> 
> no, i chose gooder on porpoise.


What vehicle? I specifically stated, and it has been stated, that this transmission uses the AW-1 specification transmission fluid, which is $22-$30 per quart. My reply was to point out that Dex6 that you find in modern transmissions is all synthetic and has been for a while, thus invalidating your argument that synthetic fluids are not suitable for automatic transmissions. I did not state that GM puts Dexron 6 into the Cruze Diesel.



Danny5 said:


> I found no recommendation to service the automatic transmission in my Diesel. I have read that the Aisin is sealed and changing the fluid is not recommended.
> 
> Obviously, if I were to do this, I would naturally choose Amsoil to be my fluid of choice, but it still begs the question, why would I want to? I seriously doubt anybody on this forum uses their car for "severe" duty.


All transmissions are now "sealed" in that they used a fill plug and a drain plug, and do not have a dipstick. That does not mean that the fluid will not degrade over time and oxidize due to heat, and certainly does not mean that the fluid is intended for the life of the transmission. If the transmission was truly sealed for life, there would be no drain plug and no fill plug. "Severe service" includes the following:

Short trips
Stop and go city traffic
Conditions regularly in excess of 100 degrees F
Towing
Driving in mountainous regions
Racing (including regular wide open throttle runs)

If you fall under any one of those conditions, you fall under the severe service drain interval. The problem with transmission fluids (with few exceptions), is that it oxidizes and shears when exposed to heat. Oxidation will cause the fluid to leave sludge deposits and cause soft metal corrosion, while shearing will thin the fluid from its intended viscosity, causing erratic shifting and reduced protection. Just how much heat there is will vary based on your driving conditions, and it is worth noting that the fluid may be subjected to this heat only in certain parts of the transmission, which may not be reported by the temperature sensor. You don't have to keep your vehicle running under those conditions for significant lengths of time for fluid degradation to occur.

GM didn't set the Cruze Diesel apart like they did for other service intervals when they recommended 45,000 miles severe service or 90,000 miles normal service for the ATF drain interval in the owner's manual.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Xtreme is 100% right. And just because it's synthetic doesn't mean it automatically more "slippery". It's an engineered lubricant meeting certain specs. It will however hold up better then dino and have better cold flow properties which is good for anything.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Xtreme, I do believe AW-1 is potentially dino from digging I've done though. I need to look again when I have time


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Xtreme, I do believe AW-1 is potentially dino from digging I've done though. I need to look again when I have time


I would be quite disappointed to find out that it isn't a synthetic. Given the heat created by the torque converter during severe service conditions, that fluid certainly wouldn't last very long at all. I would also question the sanity of whatever bean counter decided that a non-synthetic fluid would be worth charging $36 retail per quart for. I sincerely hope that this is a synthetic lubricant.


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> All transmissions are now "sealed" in that they used a fill plug and a drain plug, and do not have a dipstick. That does not mean that the fluid will not degrade over time and oxidize due to heat, and certainly does not mean that the fluid is intended for the life of the transmission. If the transmission was truly sealed for life, there would be no drain plug and no fill plug. "Severe service" includes the following:
> 
> Short trips
> Stop and go city traffic
> ...


I get what you are saying, in that you want people to play it safe. But it's a very tough argument to say that anyone is "severe" duty. 

Short Trips - Not getting car up to temperature, only running car for less than a mile or 2 and letting it completely cool again - usually in cooler weather.
Stop and Go City Traffic - You are going to have to hit EPA MPG numbers for this to show up. 29mpg or less. Nobody I know is posting these low numbers.
Heat in excess of 100 degrees - this isn't even in the owner's manual. If your car doesn't get over 100 degrees, see the Short Trips bullet.
Towing - Not recommended on these cars. Anybody tow regularly?
Driving in Mountainous Ranges - Once again, gonna have to see numbers below 29mpg, indicating that you are working the motor hard.
Racing - How much racing? The entire 45000 miles? That would make it a track car, and I don't own a track car.

The short of it is that "severe" duty is a term used by salesmen to get consumers to fork over their cash. I have a 100k warranty on my powertrain, and GM made no mention in the manual that I had to replace my fluid before my warranty was up. Will I do it? Probably. But its gonna take 4 or 5 years for me to get there.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Danny5 said:


> I get what you are saying, in that you want people to play it safe. But it's a very tough argument to say that anyone is "severe" duty.
> 
> Short Trips - Not getting car up to temperature, only running car for less than a mile or 2 and letting it completely cool again - usually in cooler weather.
> Stop and Go City Traffic - You are going to have to hit EPA MPG numbers for this to show up. 29mpg or less. Nobody I know is posting these low numbers.
> ...


A great many transmissions in the past were blown up on petroleum fluids since people could never bring themselves to consider that perhaps their driving was not what the warranty considered "normal service." I'm telling you what most manufacturers of lubricants and vehicles will consider severe service. Obviously there is some leeway in between. You drive half and half, and expect to be between normal and severe intervals. 

100 degrees F was ambient temp, not engine temp. Stop and go city traffic will cause higher heat from the slipping of the torque converter. Combine that with searing ambient temperatures and a burning AC condenser, and your trans fluid temps begin to climb. Combine high temps with mountain driving and the result will be obvious. I've seen other vehicles reach in excess of 275F at the transmission in mountain driving. It doesn't have to be 100% of the time. Severe vs. normal isn't an all or nothing metric. However, it is worth noting that permanent fluid degradation will occur with some severe conditions. I can't say how much as I'd need to test the fluid to know. Rule of thumb is if your driving conditions cause the transmission to build significantly more heat than normal driving would, you should consider changing the fluid sooner than you otherwise would. 

This is a bit irrelevant as most people will go for the Signature Series fluid, which is rated for 2x severe service. In this case, using that fluid will have you changing the fluid at the same time regardless of normal or severe fluid.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

If you read up at all about this tranny, you'll realize a routine drain and fill is in your best interests if over 100k is in mind. If you don't put many miles on and don't plan to keep it forever, just run it.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

On a side not Im noticing a ton more brick and mortar stores advertising they carry amsoil products here. My biggest gripe with them is no longer valid


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> If you read up at all about this tranny, you'll realize a routine drain and fill is in your best interests if over 100k is in mind. If you don't put many miles on and don't plan to keep it forever, just run it.


a guy i know currently owns 8 saabs and is THE saab mechanic to go to in tejas says 30k fluid chg with stock fluid, only issues he's seen are nss and output speed sensors, both external and 5 min fixes


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

boraz said:


> a guy i know currently owns 8 saabs and is THE saab mechanic to go to in tejas says 30k fluid chg with stock fluid, only issues he's seen are nss and output speed sensors, both external and 5 min fixes


Same for Volvos - they use the same transmission in everything with a 6-speed automatic. They're good, hardy transmissions, just like the older AW50-42LE, but after 30-40K and the amount of heat created in these things by the torquey engines hooked to them, along with AW's tendency to heavily use the torque converter for shifts/to keep the engine in the powerband in between gears, the fluid comes out quite dark.










Oh, and just about anything besides an all-highway commute would be considered a severe service maintenance schedule. Thinking that transmission fluid can go 100K+ between changes is a joke.


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