# Air Conditioner Saps Power and MPG's



## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

Same thing over here: 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-engine-technical-discussion/14064-eco-6mt-trouble-when-c.html

I posted my stuff in that one just a minute ago, lol


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

YES it does..."suck" power!




(from _Arid-zona _where today's temp was *105ºF* and going higher).


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Yeup. Everyone with a Cruze or other small 4-cylinder car has noticed this. My old 2-liter Saab was absolutely pathetic with the AC running.

What octane are you running? Have you taken out the intake resonator? Have you regapped your plugs? See the how-to database on the site - all of these will improve response with the AC on. There's a ton of threads about these lag issues, and they are all compounded by AC usage.

Also, the Cruze uses a variable displacement compressor...the higher the fan speed, the higher the compressor runs to cool. The lower the fan speed, the less power it saps (unless a traditional AC system where the clutch just runs the compressor full on/full off til it reaches a desired pressure).


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## bduffey723 (Apr 30, 2012)

I noticed it helped a lot to me when I switched to premium gas. 93 to be exact. Although it might just be in my head. I don't use the air too much. Rather have the windows down.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

The fan speed being lower using less fuel is true, this is because of the variable output alternator, it only generates the amount of power needed. I also see less drop in MPG running premium gas & the engine doesn't seem to struggle so bad with the AC on. 

However the effect of the AC on the cars responsiveness & MPG is less at highway speeds. On long trips I have got the same MPG with and without the AC used(above 65mph).


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

bduffey723 said:


> I noticed it helped a lot to me when I switched to premium gas. 93 to be exact. Although it might just be in my head. I don't use the air too much. Rather have the windows down.


I'm a big A/C user, so this is something I will have to get used to. I use regular gas. Until I used the A/C, regular was fine. No pinging at all and the power was fine. To be honest with you, I'm gonna have to live with the loss in power. Premium is something like 30 - 40 cents more per gallon. Gas is expensive enough where I live. I don't need to pay $4.15 per gallon to get probably a marginal amount of additional power.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> On long trips I have got the same MPG with and without the AC used(above 65mph).


Really? Mine still loses 2-4 on the highway.



> Premium is something like 30 - 40 cents more per gallon.


Try midgrade. The 1.4 really doesn't like 87.


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## bduffey723 (Apr 30, 2012)

Richard said:


> I'm a big A/C user, so this is something I will have to get used to. I use regular gas. Until I used the A/C, regular was fine. No pinging at all and the power was fine. To be honest with you, I'm gonna have to live with the loss in power. Premium is something like 30 - 40 cents more per gallon. Gas is expensive enough where I live. I don't need to pay $4.15 per gallon to get probably a marginal amount of additional power.


Switching to premium has more perks than just helping with the a/c power loss. $4.15/gal is what 87 is at right now by me. Most times I fill up it's a tad over or near $4.28/gal. When you first start using it, it's like "ugh this is expensive." Then it becomes a habit and you won't think twice about it. Lol


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Richard said:


> I'm a big A/C user, so this is something I will have to get used to. I use regular gas. Until I used the A/C, regular was fine. No pinging at all and the power was fine. To be honest with you, I'm gonna have to live with the loss in power. Premium is something like 30 - 40 cents more per gallon. Gas is expensive enough where I live. I don't need to pay $4.15 per gallon to get probably a marginal amount of additional power.


With this car, fuel economy is sorta like *dancing *where "_...a *lighter* foot..." _does wonders toward achieving your goal.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Richard said:


> Premium is something like 30 - 40 cents more per gallon. Gas is expensive enough where I live. I don't need to pay $4.15 per gallon to get probably a marginal amount of additional power.


Do your cost per mile math.... even at 60cents more a gallon my cost per mile is the same or less with premium(since I gain 2-4mpg). 

There was an article a few years back where they tested the cruze in hot weather and found the same thing as me: The Ultimate Hot Weather MPG Test - Regular vs. Premium - 2011 Chevrolet Cruze LTZ Long-Term Road Test


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> With this car, fuel economy is sorta like *dancing *where "_...a *lighter* foot..." _does wonders toward achieving your goal.


EXTREMELY true statement.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

I dont even notice the A/C is on with the Trifecta tune. :storm:


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> I dont even notice the A/C is on with the Trifecta tune. :storm:


You'll notice when the intercooler heat soaks driving in 100 deg weather, sitting in traffic with the AC running full blast.


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## bduffey723 (Apr 30, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> I dont even notice the A/C is on with the Trifecta tune. :storm:


Really? I might just have to get the tune already.


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## nebojsa (Jan 3, 2011)

This 1.4l is getting more and more interesting.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

nebojsa said:


> This 1.4l is getting more and more interesting.


Only really applies to the manuals. Harder to drive a manual car. 


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

During the 6 months I've owned the 12 eco auto and not needing the A/C till a couple times last month (May/Chicago suburb) I was using only regular......mostly around town, and I admit to being a lightfoot and tend to time the lights.
That being said, I can report my average mileage stays in the 31/34 range and there was minimal change with the A/C in operation.
However, if you get stuck at too many lights, the additional idle speed required to pull the compressor is translated in a drop in mileage. It takes oats to feed the pony, right?
Anyways, the power question.....With the A/C in operation, it becomes clear that this engine has a very agressive timing retardation schedule.
If it hears/feels any load related ping it pulls timing.....lots of it and immediatly.
This, for me, translates into a lack of throttle response during throttle re-apply after completing a turn.
Feels a bit odd the first time you experience it....seems like the pedal went dead.
I found if I just hold that throttle position the power slowly returns as the computer starts jacking the timing back in.

Anyways, as many have found out, a switch to mid grade eliminated that feeling and and gave me the throttle response back.
I might add, one of my fleet includes a 09 Miata 2.0 5M. This one is a 'Premium Recommended' vehicle.
Naturally I had to try regular for a couple of tankfulls. Ran fine, but, as soon as the ambient temps get above the eighties, it shows it has a similar spark retard schedule......but with the manual trans you can't miss it.....lays down and trips over the bumper.
So that one gets premium.....doesn't mean anything from a financial standpoint....only gets about 1k a year.

What a long winded way to say my 12 eco auto runs best on mid grade with the A/C on during the summer months heh, heh.

To the OP.....two tanks to prove the theory....I like to think good driveability has a value as well as good mpg.

Rob


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

CruzeTech said:


> I dont even notice the A/C is on with the Trifecta tune. :storm:


I notice the A/C quite a bit with Trifecta's tune. Sitting in traffic with the A/C cranked and the intercooler heatsoaking, it's noticeable the car just got neutered. Sounds like a far-off semi also when trying to accelerate at anything faster than a crawl.


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## So Cal Cruzer (Sep 29, 2011)

About the A/C...I too notice on my 2012 ECO that I do get a lag in throttle response at low speed or from a stop. It seems to me that when you really stomp on the throttle on a long freeway onramp that the compressor is dis abled and comes back on once you get it up to speed. I don't feel it or hear it, just notice the air temp rise and that momentary musty smell that you get off an A/C from time to time..Anyone else notice this ???


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Only really applies to the manuals. Harder to drive a manual car.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Harder to learn to drive a manual. After a while it becomes automatic.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Definitely run midgrade fuel at a bare minimum in the summer when you expect to use AC frequently. The car pulls a lot of timing otherwise and you lose performance. I run 93 octane year-round.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

So Cal Cruzer said:


> About the A/C...I too notice on my 2012 ECO that I do get a lag in throttle response at low speed or from a stop. It seems to me that when you really stomp on the throttle on a long freeway onramp that the compressor is dis abled and comes back on once you get it up to speed. I don't feel it or hear it, just notice the air temp rise and that momentary musty smell that you get off an A/C from time to time..Anyone else notice this ???


Your nose knows.....the compressor shuts off at wide open/deep throttle.....but most carmakers have been doing that for quite some time on the small stuff......I think G.M. does it on everything for the last ten years or so.

Rob


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Really? Mine still loses 2-4 on the highway.
> 
> 
> Try midgrade. The 1.4 really doesn't like 87.


I agree. I'm losing major MPG's with the A/C on. Whether it's highway or city driving. Obviously more at city driving. I did pure city driving this weekend with the A/C on and the MPG's went way down to 21.5. I usually average anywhere from 25-27 MPG's.

As far as 87 octane goes, before I used the A/C, 87 Octane was great. Plenty of power and MPG's. But as I said, gas is very expensive where I live. Regular is $3.75, Premium is $4.15. I didn't see the price of the middle octane, but it's probably around $3.95. The additional cumulative cost is just not worth the additional power that I would get. Just as a point of interest, I probably should fill up with Premium twice just to see the difference in power and increase in MPG's with the A/C on. I would have to get 4-5 MPG's better than regular to make up for the extra cost of the fuel. Maybe I'll give it a try and see what happens.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Richard,
Try the mid-grade.....premium is overkill on a non modified engine.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Richard - try a couple of tanks of mid-grade first to get a feel for how mid-grade runs in your Cruze. Then try a couple of tanks of Premium. After that, select the lowest octane that makes your car run well. You need at least two full tanks of each grade to get a good feel for how your Cruze will respond to each octane.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

I miss the days of the lower gas prices and I miss my 8 cylinders and high output 6 cylinders. I had 2 Northstar Caddy's. What smooth power and tremendous torque. You can crank the A/C up to max (and you can freeze meat with that A/C) and the engine would be just as powerful with the A/C blasting as it was with it off. I will say that I had the pre-2000 Northstars where you had to use premium, but gas was not that expensive back then and the difference between regular and premium was not that drastic. I then had a few high output 6 cylinders (265 HP) where I used regular gas and they ran great with the A/C running. I really liked the normal aspirated high output engines of the not so distant past.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

obermd said:


> Richard - try a couple of tanks of mid-grade first to get a feel for how mid-grade runs in your Cruze. Then try a couple of tanks of Premium. After that, select the lowest octane that makes your car run well. You need at least two full tanks of each grade to get a good feel for how your Cruze will respond to each octane.


Yes, I'm gonna have to try something different. I'm a big a/c user and the power seems to be less of a concern than the gas mileage. I did pure city driving this weekend and before I used the A/C, I was averaging around 27. After 3 days of A/C use, it went down to around 21 MPG. The true gas mileage is probably lower than that, because it was still averaging the higher MPG's I was getting before I used the A/C. This is the most extreme difference in MPG's I've seen with any car when using the A/C.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Richard, you may want to check your spark plug gaps as well and ensure they're at 0.028" and consistent. This drop is big enough that it is a drivability issue and your dealership should be willing to look into it for you. Before you go to the dealership, however, contact GM either by phone or via their reps here (Chevy Customer Service) and get a ticket opened.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> I dont even notice the A/C is on with the Trifecta tune


 At least with my tuned 2011 ECO 6M, with the A/C on my power is sapped. Today A/C on, 90+degrees outside temp, my car was definitely weaker accelerating 60 to 80 on the highway and had to downshift more than usual on the under 40 roads. Drove my wife's 2.4 VTEC powered 2012 CRV yesterday (high 80's) with A/C on, no where near the power reduction that my Cruze suffers.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> I miss my 8 cylinders and high output 6 cylinders. I had 2 Northstar Caddy's. What smooth power and tremendous torque. You can crank the A/C up to max (and you can freeze meat with that A/C) and the engine would be just as powerful with the A/C blasting as it was with it off.


 Yep - my LS1 GTO 6M could care less if the A/C is blasting - tons of power and torque. My wife had a 2000 Olds Intrigue (Shortstar v6) - A/C running did not seem to affect it.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Richard said:


> Yes, I'm gonna have to try something different. I'm a big a/c user and the power seems to be less of a concern than the gas mileage. I did pure city driving this weekend and before I used the A/C, I was averaging around 27. After 3 days of A/C use, it went down to around 21 MPG. The true gas mileage is probably lower than that, because it was still averaging the higher MPG's I was getting before I used the A/C. This is the most extreme difference in MPG's I've seen with any car when using the A/C.


1. Try higher octane. 
2. Set gaps to .035" 
3. Get rid of the intake resonator snorkel. It's way worse sucking in the hot air coming off the condenser and radiator in the summer. 


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

blk88verde said:


> At least with my tuned 2011 ECO 6M, with the A/C on my power is sapped. Today A/C on, 90+degrees outside temp, my car was definitely weaker accelerating 60 to 80 on the highway and had to downshift more than usual on the under 40 roads. Drove my wife's 2.4 VTEC powered 2012 CRV yesterday (high 80's) with A/C on, no where near the power reduction that my Cruze suffers.


I'm really surprised how well the 2.4 does with the AC on - there is barely a difference and power from takeoff, even in a manual, is not impacted in the slightest. Their older 2.2s became gutless as soon as you hit the switch. 


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Richard said:


> I guess this a disadvantage of a really small engine and pretty heavy car. I will say that the A/C cools the car down pretty good and I don't hear a compressor cycling on and off, so it must be a clutchless a/c system.
> 
> Obviously, air conditioning takes away power from all engines, but with the Cruze, it's the most that I've noticed out of any car that I've driven. And the higher the fan speed, the more exagerated the loss in power and MPG's is. I wouldn't expect that. You would think once the A/C is on, it wouldn't matter if the fan speed is on 1, or 6, but I noticed if the fan speed is on 1, I don't notice as much of a loss of power and MPG's.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a major loss of power and MPG's with the A/C on?


As others have already mentioned, the AC compressor is a variable displacement type and is internally regulated. The more cold air you demand with the fan, the harder the compressor needs to work. On really hot days when teh car has been sitting in the sun, open the windows when first underway to let the majority of the heat out of the car. After a minute or so of driving, turn on the AC and make sure you use the recirculate feature to cool the car down initially, and then select lower fan speeds once you're able. Using recirc should make a big difference if you're currently not using it.

*HAVE YOU CHECKED YOUR PLUG GAPS?
*
There's a reason I put that in *BOLD*. Many Cruze owners have reduced or eliminated sluggish low-RPM response by ensuring their plug gaps are set correctly. My car had gaps factory set at ~.025". I increased them to .033" and my low-RPM drivability has improved noticeably. Note that most people are not relating this with AC use, but any *sluggishness caused by tightly gapped plugs will be compounded dramatically with AC use*. Yes, this will affect manual transmission cars much more than automatics, but it should be eliminated as a possible contributor.

GM recommends a plug gap of between .025"-.028". There was an earlier spec of .033"-.037". As far as I know so far, all stock 1.4T owners are reporting increased drivability and no issues with their plugs gapped between .033"-.037", but moreso manual transmission drivers than autos (cars with aftermarket tuning require reduced gaps). *I would start here BEFORE experimenting with higher octane fuel. *Setting your plug gaps is a quick and free ~20 min job if you have the tools (torx bits, plug socket and plug gapper). If you don't have the tools I bet you know someone who does, and there are good DIYs on the forum that can help you get it done.

My personal experience is that increasing the plug gaps makes a noticeable improvement below ~1400 RPM even using 87 octane gas. Some cars were delivered from the factory with excessively tight plug gaps, many at less than .020". If your car is suffering from this condition you may be impressed with the results after correction.


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## gdipilato (Apr 8, 2013)

So far my 1.8 auto has been getting 29.9 mpg average with no ac. In the last week ive used ac alot and its down to 29.4. I barely do anything to be light on the pedal. When i leave work i roll down all windows and a half mile down the road i roll them up and blast ac. when i merge onto highway i shut ac off for added power then turn it back on when im up to cruising speed. Same thing when i come up to big hills i just turn it off


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> I'm really surprised how well the 2.4 does with the AC on - there is barely a difference and power from takeoff, even in a manual, is not impacted in the slightest. Their older 2.2s became gutless as soon as you hit the switch.



Even the Chevy 2.2 and 2.4 ecotec you can not tell the AC is on and no appreciable drop in MPG.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

gdipilato said:


> when i merge onto highway i shut ac off for added power then turn it back on when im up to cruising speed. Same thing when i come up to big hills i just turn it off


Just floor the gas pedal, the cruze will automatically disable the AC for more power. You can feel this happening when ramping on the highway, even the fan speed drops.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Yep, that's when the ECM tells it's internal "Scotty" to put the little 1.4LT engine into "*warp-drive*" by _automatically_ shutting down--and "physically" _disconnecting_ via the electric clutch--the variable-displacement A/C compressor. And, you can "feel" the response as "Scotty" rhetorically yells back _"...I've given'er *all* she's got Cap'n..."_


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Richard

I'm sorry about this issue that you are experiencing. I would be more than happy to document these issues for you and even call the dealer to explain whats going on and set up a service appointment. If you would like me to do this send me a private message and we can set it up.

Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## aleda67 (Nov 16, 2014)

I'm not sure if I did this question thing right but my Chevy Cruze is acting up. when I turn-on the heat on it blows out cold air then it will start to heat up later as I'm driving. then when it starts to get cold again It will say A/C shut down due to high engine temp. I don't have the A/C n at anytime. so why would it say that...


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

aleda67 said:


> I'm not sure if I did this question thing right but my Chevy Cruze is acting up. when I turn-on the heat on it blows out cold air then it will start to heat up later as I'm driving. then when it starts to get cold again It will say A/C shut down due to high engine temp. I don't have the A/C n at anytime. so why would it say that...


Don't worry about it disabling the AC, be more concerned with the high engine temperatures that caused the warning. Have you looked under your hood to check the coolant level in the surge tank? your car possibly has a leak, is low on coolant or has a malfunctioning Thermostat. Either way time to make a trip to the dealer before you cause more severe engine damage. 

There was a recall that effected some cruze models recently where they will check your coolant level for you, surprised you did not get a letter from GM as most people have.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Shops certified for AC work are required to have something like this.










Selected this on because its the most basic model. Hook it up to the low and high side ports on a MVAC system and recover all the refrigerant. Compare the quantity shown in that clear container with the specified amount. Either add or subtract to the precise value than pump it back in.

An overcharged system sure puts one heck of a load on the compressor in turn on the engine. An undercharged system has to be checked for leaks. Lubricating oils have no dipsticks, only way to be assured the correct amount is in the system is to flush it out and pour in the correct amount. PAG is very particular, has to be moisture free.

This is not new, these systems have been around in the early 60's. Only thing that is new is a fresh breed of kids that don't know what the heck they are doing.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

aleda67 said:


> I'm not sure if I did this question thing right but my Chevy Cruze is acting up. when I turn-on the heat on it blows out cold air then it will start to heat up later as I'm driving. then when it starts to get cold again It will say A/C shut down due to high engine temp. I don't have the A/C n at anytime. so why would it say that...


Your coolant is extremely low.....it will not repair itself.

Rob


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Guess if you are old school, always checking fluid levels. Brake and coolant is strictly visual, but wonder what happened to the clutch reservoir. Pulling out the dip stick first thing in the morning, don't even have to wipe it off, just look at it. 

Windshield washer fluid? Never use it, nice way to grind grooves in your windshield, but still full from the factory. 

If you have an automatic transmission, can really be a first class PITA.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Guess I'm old school. The first of every month both cars get all fluids checked and all tire pressures too. This lets you know if there is a trend showing up and makes sure nothing is low. Takes all of ten minutes for both cars. For the last 11 years I've pulled the dip stick on the P5 every month and never yet had to add any oil, but I know it's good. I fail to understand how someone can pay so much money for a car and then ignore the basic maintenance. End of sermon.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

NickD said:


> Windshield washer fluid? Never use it, nice way to grind grooves in your windshield, but still full from the factory.


How the heck do you drive on Wisconsin's bug infested road in the summer without using the wind shield washer? If I didn't would never be able to see out my window. Could go weeks with the cruze's huge gas tank before it gets washed again when I fill up, that's if I remember. Much easier to use 5 seconds of bug juice(green summer wash) when the bugs are freshly hit to remove 90% of them. 

Also if you still have your factory fill washer tank, the fluid GM uses will freeze in the winter possibly damaging the tank, lines and pump. Would add at a minimum a bottle of heat, better yet use up that crappy fluid & add some winter washer fluid.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Thick coat of rain-x, buy it by the barrel. Suckers hit the windshield say weee... and slide up.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

NickD said:


> Guess if you are old school, always checking fluid levels. Brake and coolant is strictly visual, but wonder what happened to the clutch reservoir. Pulling out the dip stick first thing in the morning, don't even have to wipe it off, just look at it.
> 
> Windshield washer fluid? Never use it, nice way to grind grooves in your windshield, but still full from the factory.
> 
> If you have an automatic transmission, can really be a first class PITA.


Clutch uses the same reservoir as the brakes.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

NickD said:


> Thick coat of rain-x, buy it by the barrel. Suckers hit the windshield say weee... and slide up.


I hate that crap, just a greasy mess which causes streaking/smearing when I use the wipers.


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## iggy (Feb 14, 2013)

I agree 1000000% that stuff is like dirt magnet. No wonder he gets groves worn in his window...

But aside from that, how the heck could you go through a winter without windshield washer solvent? It can't be rain-x keeping all the salt off the window. In Michigan if it snows and the salt crews have been out... you'd better have a tank of windshield washer solvent or you'll have a rather nasty white film on the window that you can't see through.




spacedout said:


> I hate that crap, just a greasy mess which causes streaking/smearing when I use the wipers.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

iggy said:


> I agree 1000000% that stuff is like dirt magnet. No wonder he gets groves worn in his window...
> 
> But aside from that, how the heck could you go through a winter without windshield washer solvent? It can't be rain-x keeping all the salt off the window. In Michigan if it snows and the salt crews have been out... you'd better have a tank of windshield washer solvent or you'll have a rather nasty white film on the window that you can't see through.


Yep, they practically pave the streets in salt here if it snows...and all that salt goes directly at your windshield. I once froze my windshield washer fluid tank on a drive in super cold weather, and I could hardly see a thing!


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## iggy (Feb 14, 2013)

Which reminds me, I need to go get a carton and start carrying a extra jug in the trunk.



jblackburn said:


> Yep, they practically pave the streets in salt here if it snows...and all that salt goes directly at your windshield. I once froze my windshield washer fluid tank on a drive in super cold weather, and I could hardly see a thing!


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I burn though 4-6 gallons of washer fluid in a year. I use the green bug wash in the summer, since it seems to break down the bugs better & switch to de-icer as soon as fall comes. Will run de-icer until mid April to avoid any freezing in the tank, also much faster to spray the frost off in the morning than to try and scrape it. 

Windshield Washer Fluids | Prestone®


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Ha, I'm still on my factory fill of washer fluid.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Sunline Fan said:


> Ha, I'm still on my factory fill of washer fluid.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


It's probably frozen. ?


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## Sucker123 (Jun 10, 2017)

*Power loss*

Yes my car totally stopped almost had an accident. Luckily the other car was able to stop. I had to turn the a/coff to get it going. Is there a fix for this?


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