# Piston problems



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Jeffm said:


> I have a 2019 cruze 1.4 liter turbo engine with only 10,600 miles on it. The engine light came on so I took it to the dealer and according to them a piston is bad. My question is it ok for them to only change 1 piston instead of all4 ?


Yes, of course I would push for all 4, but I doubt GM will cover it.


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## Jeffm (Jul 27, 2020)

Thebigzeus said:


> Yes, of course I would push for all 4, but I doubt GM will cover it.


If they only replace 1 wont that be harder on the engine?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

No, it's not okay. Tell them to reference service information document #5080870. The proper repair is all 4 pistons.


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## Jeffm (Jul 27, 2020)

Thank you Maven for the reply. This document #5080870 where can I find it and read it? Is it a GM document?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Its a GM TSB. #18-NA-171.
I usually don't just give out TSB #s because honestly....customers who come in with TSBs are annoying as fcuk, and piss me off. LOL.
Referencing the document ID will likely get you taken a little more seriously and not just like someone with good Google skills. You'll seem like you have someone inside.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Did you buy this car new, or was it a rental/loaner? Just curious


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## KENSTV123 (Sep 21, 2014)

Found this


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## KENSTV123 (Sep 21, 2014)

2nd attempt


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## Jeffm (Jul 27, 2020)

Thank you for all your help!!! It just really pisses me off to pay 20,000.00 for a car with a piston issue at 10,600 miles


Ma v e n said:


> Did you buy this car new, or was it a rental/loaner? Just curious


It was brand new with only 13 miles on it.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

You wouldn't be the first car to only get one piston.

They usually get 30,000ish miles though.

Guess it depends on the dealer.

Looks like I need to get in for the ecm update


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Jeffm said:


> Thank you for all your help!!! It just really pisses me off to pay 20,000.00 for a car with a piston issue at 10,600 miles
> 
> It was brand new with only 13 miles on it.


Understandable. Where do you get your oil changed? How many times have you had it changed?What fuel do you use?


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## StormShepherd (Jan 29, 2017)

I'm a Chevrolet dealer technician, and I can safely say the correct repair is all 4 pistons. It won't cause 'more stress' or damage other parts of the engine, however a couple weeks ago I rebuilt the engine on a 2020 Equinox, that jettisoned half a fragment of its piston through an exhaust valve, which smashed the valve too. The problem is, the piston doesn't just 'randomly' fail. Something caused it. Whether it be a casting defect, or the engine inhaled something to cause that catastrophic failure, whatever damage was done to cause that failure, could be present in other pistons now.

Also, some food for thought, at that low a mileage, any failure of major drivetrain components is the reason the warranty is there - Mass production can cause defects. And as demonstrated above, both causes for such a low mileage failure could have happened to any car. It just happened to be your car. You have no 'good' reason to be pissed off. GM will repair the vehicle at no cost to you, the dealership should put you in a rental for the amount of repair involved, and your car will get a 'reset'. The Cruze had a lot worse issues in the 2016/2017 MY's, where it was ALWAYS Piston #1 that cracked, and then if they experienced it again after the ECM recalibration, it was #4. At this point, that issue has been ironed out, as the improved pistons and ECM calibration are on all those Cruzes.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

StormShepherd said:


> You have no 'good' reason to be pissed off. GM will repair the vehicle at no cost to you, the dealership should put you in a rental for the amount of repair involved, and your car will get a 'reset'.


*Why is there not a "dislike" button?

WTF*.

*What is this "reset" you're talking about*?

No good reason to be pissed off? Maybe the fact that this persons car suffered a catastrophic failure, is going to inconvenience them with unnecessary trips to dealer, days away from their vehicle, worry over "other" issues the vehicle may have, and of course let's not forget arguably the most intrusive teardown of the vehicle possible. All by a shop who wasn't going to, or at least intimated that they weren't going to follow GM repair guidelines directly to the customer.
What exactly constitutes a "good" reason to be pissed off to you?

Additionally and slightly tangential, I hate the whole concept and argument that taking care of issues is the sign of a quality product and good customer service. I want you to treat me great when I'm NOT pissed off, and I want your product and service to not get me angry in the first place.


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## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

I had similar issues long time ago! I didn't let them change only two pistons! I told them I'd even pay for these (I was under warranty) but I will complain about this since if half of them failed then it is a high chance that the others to have small cracks or damaged already. Finally they did replace all free of charge, as a "courtesy". Honestly, don't let them change only one even if you would pay some extra...


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## StormShepherd (Jan 29, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> *Why is there not a "dislike" button?
> 
> WTF*.
> 
> ...


Because it is GM policy to put you in a rental for a repair that has you out of a car for more than 2 hours. Now, if you were driving your brand new car across the country, and it stranded you with catastrophic failure 1,000 miles from home, then yeah, you got a good right to be pissed off. However, again, as a vet of the repair industry, a Chevrolet technician mind you, I can 100% affirm to you, that this scenario has NEVER happened to any vehicle I've ever serviced. In any case like that, GM will be on the hook for the tow, too. As I stated, they SHOULD be replacing all four pistons. As I stated, there could be something wrong with the other three, and the tech shouldn't risk that comeback, the correct repair is all pistons. If all four pistons are replaced, then there really is no reason to be pissed off. Disappointed, frustrated, sure, but pissed off, no.

So no, because as I iterated before, the warranty exists for a reason. The OP is experiencing that reason. Good thing they're not a FIAT owner in the 80's, when they first tried to penetrate the American auto market, and their engines melted down to slag, and FIAT declined warranty claims. Food for thought. It's like getting indignant over free stuff, because it wasn't the free stuff you wanted. 

Besides that, you shouldn't even be traveling out of state with the current pandemic anyway, so there isn't a 'real' inconvenience with taking a rental car - Conditions of loaner cars tend to be that it can't leave the state, for insurance reasons. And yeah, the car gets a reset. I'm going to assume you know zero, zilch, nadda, nothing, about engine rebuild, since you ask what this reset I speak of is. To replace even one piston requires replacement of ALL gaskets, the connecting rod bearings, ALL Torque-to-yield bolts (Which in this particular case includes connecting rod caps, which means new connecting rods - the bolts for the connecting rods are torque-to-yield, just like head bolts). The turbocharger oil pipes and seals get replaced, every gasket. The oil pan is one-time-use, which means new lower oil pan. Aside from the lost-foam cast block, and potentially the head, and potentially the valves, the engine is brand new. Which means the oil control rings, the piston rings, everything is 0-miles.

It sucks to be without the actual car you bought, yes, but the engine will be completely stripped down to the block, with no pistons, and reassembled if done correctly. In addition, any driving you do for (probably about three weeks) is mileage that is put on a dealership owned vehicle, not your own car. Any dealer technician worth their wage will have it put together right. The alternative is what happened at a competing dealer in Wisconsin, where they reused the crank bearings and caps, due to an extended time of arrival for connecting rods, and it jettisons a cap out the back of the block, and the car burns down when oil sprays on to the catalytic converter and ignites. In which case GM will definitely buy you a car.

So yeah, it works out in the original poster's favour, either way.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Wouldn't it be easier to just install a new engine?


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## jimmyc (Jun 27, 2020)

EXCELLENT POINT !


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

StormShepherd said:


> I'm going to assume you know zero, zilch, nadda, nothing, about engine rebuild, since you ask what this reset I speak of is.


Oh, I've been waiting for your to call me out for not knowing something....I could sense it coming. LOL I won't assume I know how long you've been a tech, or that you do or don't know what you're talking about (although the fact that you think pistons in an LE2 is a 3 week job says something...) I'm just gonna drop my credentials here, and call virtually everything you've stated as either liberal bullshit, naive misunderstanding, or lack of experience in the real world of dealerships and flat rate technicians. If you tear an engine down in a dealership and rebuild it in the car in front of your toolbox, you can't POSSIBLY believe that it's a better job than GM does in it's factories. And if you say you've NEVER had a comeback, reused a gasket, pipe or fastener that was supposed to be a single use part than you're either A: a liar. B: proved you have minimal experience wrenching or C: the only experiences tech who can say that and not very good at getting your customers vehicles back on the road in a timely manner.









Please feel to test my knowledge or experience in any further way you see fit.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Just in case anybody else was unclear, putting new pistons, rods and rings in a used engine that blew up doesn't make a new engine, or do a kind of reset....

GM doesn't replace the engine because it's cheaper to just replace the pistons. If a cylinder wall gets damaged, you'll get a new engine. But not just for a broken ringland and no extensive collateral damage


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Wouldn't it be easier to just install a new engine?


Easier? I dot know, it's debatable. Pistons get replaced with engine in the car. Engine requires more disassembly and transfer of parts, evacuating and recharging AC, an alignment if you remove engine from bottom of vehicle(specified way )


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Why does it have to be liberal BS?... @Ma v e n


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

StormShepherd said:


> Besides that, you shouldn't even be traveling out of state with the current pandemic anyway, so there isn't a 'real' inconvenience with taking a rental car -


This is why I mentioned liberal bullshit.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Well. He's right.

Look at the married couple arrested in hawaii because they didn't quarantine. 

Why even bother traveling if you have to quarantine 14 days. SMH


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Well. He's right.
> 
> Look at the married couple arrested in hawaii because they didn't quarantine.
> 
> Why even bother traveling if you have to quarantine 14 days. SMH


Except for hes not. First of all there's no travel ban where I live, nor is there a quarantine requirement for at least 8 states surroundings me that I can travel to. Additionally travel recommendations, bans, quarantined, etc....none of that changes whether or not being without your own car is an inconvenience or something to be pissed off at. I also consider the whole argument that I shouldn't be pissed to be nonsense.


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> Except for hes not. First of all there's no travel ban where I live, nor is there a quarantine requirement for at least 8 states surroundings me that I can travel to. Additionally travel recommendations, bans, quarantined, etc....none of that changes whether or not being without your own car is an inconvenience or something to be pissed off at. I also consider the whole argument that I shouldn't be pissed to be nonsense.


I understand being pissed, but I'm also a realist. Mass production and human error is inevitable. A long time ago, I use to work at a Nissan plant. The line was moving faster than what I could comfortably keep up with when I first started. I hope those things I assembled early on didn't cause any issues to owners hahaha.

Some stations, I had to tighten the bolts... other stations, I just put the pieces together and stuck it in a machine that would torque it all up correctly (brake assembly etc.)


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Shroomie, make no mistake, I fully understand that things made by man can made wrong, fail early, etc...I accept that, a large portion of my income is based on that reality. 

But that doesn't change that many people get upset when things break or fail early or unexpectedly. And telling them they have no right or good reason to be upset is absurd


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## jimmyc (Jun 27, 2020)

StormShepherd said:


> Because it is GM policy to put you in a rental for a repair that has you out of a car for more than 2 hours. Now, if you were driving your brand new car across the country, and it stranded you with catastrophic failure 1,000 miles from home, then yeah, you got a good right to be pissed off. However, again, as a vet of the repair industry, a Chevrolet technician mind you, I can 100% affirm to you, that this scenario has NEVER happened to any vehicle I've ever serviced. In any case like that, GM will be on the hook for the tow, too. As I stated, they SHOULD be replacing all four pistons. As I stated, there could be something wrong with the other three, and the tech shouldn't risk that comeback, the correct repair is all pistons. If all four pistons are replaced, then there really is no reason to be pissed off. Disappointed, frustrated, sure, but pissed off, no.
> 
> So no, because as I iterated before, the warranty exists for a reason. The OP is experiencing that reason. Good thing they're not a FIAT owner in the 80's, when they first tried to penetrate the American auto market, and their engines melted down to slag, and FIAT declined warranty claims. Food for thought. It's like getting indignant over free stuff, because it wasn't the free stuff you wanted.
> 
> ...


GM has a policy for a rental car if the repair is more than 2 hours? Can you show that in writing? Love to see it.....
I had that PCV thng where the intake manifold was replaced...etc., 3 days. I asked the dealer for a courtesy or rental car....They said no...but offered me ride home.


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## StormShepherd (Jan 29, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> Oh, I've been waiting for your to call me out for not knowing something....I could sense it coming. LOL I won't assume I know how long you've been a tech, or that you do or don't know what you're talking about (although the fact that you think pistons in an LE2 is a 3 week job says something...) I'm just gonna drop my credentials here, and call virtually everything you've stated as either liberal bullshit, naive misunderstanding, or lack of experience in the real world of dealerships and flat rate technicians. If you tear an engine down in a dealership and rebuild it in the car in front of your toolbox, you can't POSSIBLY believe that it's a better job than GM does in it's factories. And if you say you've NEVER had a comeback, reused a gasket, pipe or fastener that was supposed to be a single use part than you're either A: a liar. B: proved you have minimal experience wrenching or C: the only experiences tech who can say that and not very good at getting your customers vehicles back on the road in a timely manner.
> 
> 
> Please feel to test my knowledge or experience in any further way you see fit.


In the world of cars, don't consider it an offense that I assume someone I'm talking to doesn't know anything. Most people don't, so I find it easier to start with 'from bottom up'.

As for my experience, I don't keep pictures of my certifications on hand for a bigger stick waving contest, but I'm a Driveability and Engine Repair specialist, and I've been doing that for 5 years. As for the time it can take to rebuild an engine? Yeah, it could take 2 or 3 weeks. You could wait up to a week for parts. You could tear down an engine with a clearly cracked piston, have parts all sitting there ready to go, and get pulled off of it for something 'that needs to go today', if you work at a dealership as busy as mine was when I took 2 weeks on my last engine. Then you could find damage that was impossible to see, such as my Equinox, which I knew had a burned exhaust valve, but in the cost/comparison analysis result, machining the head was the correct step. Send out the head and that takes another couple days. 3 in my case. Then engine assembly, of course. 

As for reusing parts? When it's warranty, hell to the no do I reuse any gaskets, the car sits on the lot until I have every seal, every torque to yield bolt, and every 1-time-use part replacement. I'm not risking a charge back on a 20-hour job, flat rate, just because I didn't replace some gasket, or 1 bolt that GM says is one time use.

And fine, I'll reiterate my original statement. You have a right to feel any way you want, but you 'shouldn't' be pissed off. Personally, I'd be grateful it happened in the warranty, and didn't hold on just long enough to cost me out of pocket. I've actually been there. I bought my Cruze with a month left on its powertrain warranty, and in the first week the camshaft cover failed. I was upset at first, took a step back, and thought about it. I thought to myself, 'well okay, so I'm gonna get a manifold and a cover, right before the end of warranty'.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Well there's the first problem, many people do take offense when others offhand assume they know nothing. You assuming that you always know more than who youre dealing with and talking down to everyone as a default is a sh!t character trait and something that you need to deal with, grow up (regardless of your age) and deal with people on a reasonable level.

I realize you're lashing out a bit here as I've shown that I'm not someone you can intimidate with your knowledge/experience, but its pretty clear I don't have photos ready to go.

I thought you were a used car tech?

yes, it CAN take weeks for parts, it typically does not, and definitely not recently in my experience with the LE2 pistons, even with COVID and the strike last year, these were pretty readily available parts lists. to tell people who you think know nothing that it takes weeks to replace pistons is misleading at best.

Hope your Equinox wasn't a 1.5, cylinder head machining isn't allowed on them 

Not reusing anything, ever, again leads me back to my thoughts on being naive, and not taking care of your customers. Nevermind the fact that Ive yet to meet a shop foreman/shop manager, or service manager that would allow that type of delay for something silly. This also means there's likely an issue in your parts dept too, as any good dept would be doing everything they can to get parts in. and keeping customers in loaners/rentals for weeks isnt something GM likes to do.

As to getting chargeback for not having enough parts on the repair order? ROTFLMFAO. I've never once seen GM bounce a claim because there were too FEW parts claimed. they dont give a f#ck....if you say you fixed it and it cost less than what they expect it to, they are happy as hell. I've seen LML diesel fuel system rebuilds get paid with no injector/pump kit billed out!!! No if you have ONE extra bolt, or seal on there, you can rest assured they'll bounce it back and make the administrator resubmit with less parts before they pay.

Do you realize how many perfectly functioning Cruzes are out there with reused bolts? my guess is honestly....virtually all of them. And I'd be willing to wager if you were honest, you'd admit that you've shipped cars with reused parts too.....every cruze brake job you've done got caliper bolts?....come on.

Yes, you're right, it's better it happens under warranty than out of pocket, but to tell people they have no right to, or even shouldn't be upset is silly.


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> Well there's the first problem, many people do take offense when others offhand assume they know nothing. You assuming that you always know more than who youre dealing with and talking down to everyone as a default is a sh!t character trait and something that you need to deal with, grow up (regardless of your age) and deal with people on a reasonable level.
> 
> I realize you're lashing out a bit here as I've shown that I'm not someone you can intimidate with your knowledge/experience, but its pretty clear I don't have photos ready to go.
> 
> ...


Well said, I have reused tty bolts with no issues so far _knocks on wood_


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Use the wrong oil and gas. 

Guess what happens.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Use the wrong oil and gas.
> 
> Guess what happens.


Yep, definitely ran 87.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

He deleted his post. 🤣



Thebigzeus said:


> Yep, definitely ran 87.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> He deleted his post. 🤣


Mods got him. He gone!


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I don't see any of his posts 



Thebigzeus said:


> Mods got him. He gone!


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I don't see any of his posts


Exactly


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## Sgtdecker3239 (Jul 14, 2021)

I recently bought a 2018 cruze in March and immediately put an extended warranty with patriot auto warranty last week I had 2 pistons go out 1,3 after a week of run around with the warranty company they denied my claim because of the gm 18 NA 17 bulletin. The dealer wants 6800 for the repairs how can I get gm to cover this my car has 104k miles


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## Sgtdecker3239 (Jul 14, 2021)

Ma v e n said:


> Its a GM TSB. #18-NA-171.
> I usually don't just give out TSB #s because honestly....customers who come in with TSBs are annoying as fcuk, and piss me off. LOL.
> Referencing the document ID will likely get you taken a little more seriously and not just like someone with good Google skills. You'll seem like you have someone inside.



Hi I have a 2018 Chevy cruze that I bought in March I immediately put a extended warranty when I bought the car last week 2 pistons cracked 1,3 the warranty company denied the claim because of the bulletin how can I make gm cover this my car has 104k miles


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## jimmyc (Jun 27, 2020)

Sgtdecker3239 said:


> I recently bought a 2018 cruze in March and immediately put an extended warranty with patriot auto warranty last week I had 2 pistons go out 1,3 after a week of run around with the warranty company they denied my claim because of the gm 18 NA 17 bulletin. The dealer wants 6800 for the repairs how can I get gm to cover this my car has 104k miles


Wow.....104,000 miles and you want a warranty claim? Even with an "aftermarket" warranty company? Well, never heard of that...lotta things I never heard of, but good luck with it. 

Sugggestion: In past years with different vehicles I had 2 JASPER motors and 1 JASPER transmission. Motors were in the $4000 range (installed...one pickup and one auto) and the tranny was around $3000 (installed...a motorhome). Only one problem back in the 1990s that JASPER took care of immediately with one phone call. Otherwise everything worked fine as long as I had the vehicle.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

You're going to have to deal with your warranty.

Gm warranty expired at the 60k mark.


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## Sgtdecker3239 (Jul 14, 2021)

The after market warranty was bumper to bumper with all components they denied the claim because of gm bulletin 
GM-18- NA


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## Sgtdecker3239 (Jul 14, 2021)

snowwy66 said:


> at


Powertrain was a 100k miles. Warranty company denied the claim because of the service bulletin


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Someone might correct me.

As far as most of us knows. The piston problem was on the 16 and 17 models. And usually broke before 35k miles. 18 was supposed to have a redesigned piston.

You warranty was for 100k and you're at 104k.


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## Sgtdecker3239 (Jul 14, 2021)

jimmyc said:


> Wow.....104,000 miles and you want a warranty claim? Even with an "aftermarket" warranty company? Well, never heard of that...lotta things I never heard of, but good luck with it.
> 
> Sugggestion: In past years with different vehicles I had 2 JASPER motors and 1 JASPER transmission. Motors were in the $4000 range (installed...one pickup and one auto) and the tranny was around $3000 (installed...a motorhome). Only one problem back in the 1990s that JASPER took care of immediately with one phone call. Otherwise everything worked fine as long as I had the vehicle.


Is jasper motors the name of the warranty company you had?


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## Sgtdecker3239 (Jul 14, 2021)

According to the bulletin it's on the 18s there's a update on the ecm for the 18. The bulletin was also for a few other models as well.


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## Sgtdecker3239 (Jul 14, 2021)

The manufacturer warranty was 100k and the extended warranty was for an additional 100k but the extended warranty is denying the claim because of the gm bulletin.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Jasper is a motor reman company. I know of several friends and family members who have purchased their motors for vehicles. As far as your warranty situation is concerned I would quite possibly contact an attorney.


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## jimmyc (Jun 27, 2020)

Sgtdecker3239 said:


> Is jasper motors the name of the warranty company you had?


No . JASPER is an indipendant company that re-manufactures engines and transmissions. They even do (or did) racing motors when I used them. (There is a difference between "re-manufactured" and "rebuilt". Re-manufactured is, in theory, much better than rebuilt They go right down to the block and everything get replaced with new parts..)

Google JASPER.


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