# My EGR/Throttle Plate Experience



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So, as I had mentioned in the couple of recent threads about cleaning the throttle plate and EGR valve, I wanted to check ours and clean if needed to combat some running/starting issues my wife has been encountering in the past months. 

I started at about 8PM, so it was pretty dark, but that wasn't an issue, since I have a nice bright LED light, and both of these things are pretty near the top on the back of the engine. Easy to see and reach.

I went to try and remove the EGR - but the two hard lines blocked my T30 socket from reaching to top bolt, and no amount of extensions could help, since the socket itself wouldn't fit. Oh well, that will need to be for another day (those who have done it - did you have an extended torx "bit" in the socket, or were you able to move those hard lines out of the way via unbolting them?). ****. 

The throttle plate is a whole lot easier to access and remove, so I pulled it off, and it was nice and gunked up. Still moved pretty freely, but I can imagine it did not help matters. 















After some brake and carb cleaner, much better:















Now...with the throttle plate off, I also noticed the now-open intake manifold was absolutely disgusting - an extremely large amount of gross build up. Has anyone encountered _this much_ **** in your intake manifold? To clean this properly, I'd need to remove the whole manifold, and I can imagine how much farther it goes in if this is just the inlet...







I pulled out quite a lot, as much as I could (I didn't want to shove any farther back into the intake, past the air diverter), but it's still clearly gross as **** in there.








Hopefully once we get back from vacation (and once I figure out how to remove that top EGR bolt), I can pull that out and clean it out.

Any thoughts on the intake gunk?


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## Niebs6.2 (Feb 8, 2014)

Wow that is pretty gross! I don't think yours looked much different than mine when I cleaned it last weekend. I will take the throttle plate right off next time and try clean up around the EGR diverter a bit more. Thanks for the pictures.

PCV vapor must be the main cause of all this gunk and then it mixes with the EGR stream to gum things up further down the intake. I was wondering if the gunk build up in my intake was an anomaly, but suspect most of the CTD engines will have this build-up.

Big job to remove the intake manifold. I wonder how the swirl valves look............


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Any thoughts on the intake gunk?


If it were mine (I hate what EGR does to diesels):
I'd take the manifold off, clean it, and replace the EGR-intake gasket with some RTV and a metal plate. 
Since this will probably cause codes and maybe limp mode, I'd plan on flashing a tune to make the computer happy again.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

MP81 said:


> So, as I had mentioned in the couple of recent threads about cleaning the throttle plate and EGR valve, I wanted to check ours and clean if needed to combat some running/starting issues my wife has been encountering in the past months.
> 
> I started at about 8PM, so it was pretty dark, but that wasn't an issue, since I have a nice bright LED light, and both of these things are pretty near the top on the back of the engine. Easy to see and reach.
> 
> ...



Excellent write-up and photos, thanks @MP81 for this post and also @Niebs6.2 for the previous one. 

Just for reference/comparison...How many miles on your CTD's?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Exactly 63834 miles on ours. 

Yes, I was definitely surprised at _how much_ PCV/oil was in there - and definitely mixing with the EGR and turning into...that. 

I can only imagine how the rest of the intake looks - and it worries me about the swirl valves. I hear the typical "squeaky squeak" noise after shutdown, but there's also another weird noise I'm not used to hearing - hopefully not something else getting stuck, haha.

Wonder if anyone has run a PCV catch can, and if so, if it helps this condition.

My hands (and around my fingernails) are still black. Clean...but stained. Pretty normal, haha.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

This helped me understand EGR and the mess it causes in Diesel intake systems. 

The Evil Of EGR On Diesel Engines - Diesel Power Magazine

Here's a catch can install write-up:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/169-...ary/53889-how-add-catch-can-your-2-0-ctd.html


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## Niebs6.2 (Feb 8, 2014)

I have 107,000km / 66487 miles on the car. Running great now after cleaning !


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> This helped me understand EGR and the mess it causes in Diesel intake systems.
> 
> The Evil Of EGR On Diesel Engines - Diesel Power Magazine
> 
> ...


The EGR two bolts are tricky, specifically the top one, I will post a pic of what I bought at Sears, it worked, in retrospect they had a very thin t30 on a t handle with a long extension, 6 inches, I think that could work better.

The black crud you are showing is nothing short of depressing. I have 43k miles. Not to start any sort of bad blood, because I have been anti delete and all, so I am not suggesting should or shouldn't delete. I would like to see the same parts you removed from a deleted engine from almost new, I don't want to deal with continuing build up issues. 

I know @diesel never had an EGR issue in 200k miles, but I think from his words he drives much harder than the normal driver on a very regular basis.

Again, I will post the tool I used, it's nothing special but did get the job done.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> Excellent write-up and photos, thanks @MP81 for this post and also @Niebs6.2 for the previous one.
> 
> Just for reference/comparison...How many miles on your CTD's?


I had a 95 Mercedes diesel with 255k miles. I bypassed the EGR and removed the intake and took to a engine rebuilder to put in a tank to get the crud out, there wasn't any way I could have cleaned it. I don't know what our intakes look like and how to clean any other way than to take it somewhere to be cleaned. But to be honest, I don't want an engine I have to tear apart to clean...yuck


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> I had a 95 Mercedes diesel with 255k miles.


OM606?
What did the butterflies in the intake look like?
Did they still move freely?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Taxman said:


> OM606?
> What did the butterflies in the intake look like?
> Did they still move freely?


It was their straight 6, great engine. I don't recall what the butterflies looked like, I just recall it was pretty basic and a mess and engine ran better after cleaning everything.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> This helped me understand EGR and the mess it causes in Diesel intake systems.
> 
> The Evil Of EGR On Diesel Engines - Diesel Power Magazine
> 
> ...


These issues appear quite common with the newer clean diesels. Just look at all the issues of the TDI and the 335D not to mention even Fords 6.0L PS which weren't all that clean but had EGR.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I would like to see the same parts you removed from a deleted engine from almost new,


if the emissions was deleted from new, how could there possibly be any build up?

its 100% exhaust being recirculated.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> (those who have done it - did you have an extended torx "bit" in the socket, or were you able to move those hard lines out of the way via unbolting them?). ****.


this is what i used to get the top bolt










but i also undid the two bolts (10mm head) on the thin metal strap that holds those two hard lines in place, and then jammed a screwdriver under that strap to keep the hardlines elevated to make room

^the contraption of sockets and extensions was way wobbly and kept falling down the engine bay, then i tried this










worked perfectly too, except the bolts are blue loctited so harder to torque it off than with a socket wrench.






































73000 miles 43 usmpg lifetime


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ahh, so you used essentially a nut-driver torx socket "rigged" into a socket wrench? I've done similar things before, but I'm always worried about it falling out, since it's basically just set in there.

When I get back home, I think I'm going to buy a set of T-handle torx wrenches - those should give me plenty of oomph to remove the bolt - and putting it back in shouldn't be much different, given the low torque spec.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Ahh, so you used essentially a nut-driver torx socket "rigged" into a socket wrench? I've done similar things before, but I'm always worried about it falling out, since it's basically just set in there.
> 
> When I get back home, I think I'm going to buy a set of T-handle torx wrenches - those should give me plenty of oomph to remove the bolt - and putting it back in shouldn't be much different, given the low torque spec.


The t handle will work great....I used something similiar to boraz, and to your concern part of it fell apart and onto chassis, the t handle should work great. Good luck


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Ahh, so you used essentially a nut-driver torx socket "rigged" into a socket wrench? I've done similar things before, but I'm always worried about it falling out, since it's basically just set in there.
> 
> When I get back home, I think I'm going to buy a set of T-handle torx wrenches - those should give me plenty of oomph to remove the bolt - and putting it back in shouldn't be much different, given the low torque spec.


oh i dropped the bit at least 5x :rofl:

made good use of my magnetic extension thingie :rofl:

twice i had to roll the car back (driveway in front of garage is sloped downhill) to retrieve dropped pieces because i would reach in put the torx bit in the bolt then attach the rest..i came close to putting some putty in the sockets for grip then remembered i had a screwdriver type bit driver...ive got 3 t30 torx sockets, but they dont fit cuz the bit shaft isnt long enough

a t handle torx will work great torque wise as long as its the proper length....thats why i have the 3/8 ratchet to 3/8-1/4 adapter instead of using a 1/4 ratchet...needed the extra length

a t30 torx socket with longer shaft will work perfect too

its a 2hr round trip to the closest hardware/parts store, so i try to make do

ive never needed a t handle torx before, and yeah its a good tool for THIS job, but for the same $$ im gonna buy magnetic hex bit extensions for versatility


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## krom (May 30, 2015)

Is anyone running meth injection?
It should keep the intake spotless, and would probably clean up a dirty one 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

krom said:


> Is anyone running meth injection?
> It should keep the intake spotless, and would probably clean up a dirty one
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


What's meth injection? That sounds illegal.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Methanol injection - cars running big boost numbers will usually run meth in order to avoid moving up to race gas.


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## krom (May 30, 2015)

Some info for diesel and meth injection:
11 Things You Need To Know About Water/Methanol Injection But we're afraid to ask | Diesel Tech Magazine

How It Works: Water Methanol Injection - Diesel Army

https://www.snowperformance.net/Diesel-water-methanol-injection-kits-s/101.htm


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> What's meth injection? That sounds illegal.


LOL.... less illegal than performing a delete


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Got my T-handle Trox wrenches last weekend, and tackled the EGR today. I ended up having to remove the two bolts that held the hard line's bracket to the valve cover in order to get the EGR out. But it made putting it in (specifically the top bolt) a lot easier. Then I dropped the bottom bolt and it fell down - luckily my magnet grabbed it, then I dropped it into the belly pan and had to get it from under the car. Oh well.

Pretty **** filthy - not sure if it was at risk of sticking, but it definitely could have been a cause of why we'd periodically need a few turns to start, and/or experience rough running/idle right after starting.











































Some leaking onto the ground once I removed the EGR. Guessing PCV oil?










All cleaned up. I used a brass wire brush (along with the brake cleaner), and that did a really good job of cleaning some of the caked-on stuff up without damaging the aluminum, especially around the valve itself. I then used the plastic handle of the wire brush to shove the valve open so I could clean underneath (the valve seat was dirty, but not gunked up).

















































Won't know until it's driven more, but it certainly seemed happy when I fired it up.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Got my T-handle Trox wrenches last weekend, and tackled the EGR today. I ended up having to remove the two bolts that held the hard line's bracket to the valve cover in order to get the EGR out. But it made putting it in (specifically the top bolt) a lot easier. Then I dropped the bottom bolt and it fell down - luckily my magnet grabbed it, then I dropped it into the belly pan and had to get it from under the car. Oh well.
> 
> Pretty **** filthy - not sure if it was at risk of sticking, but it definitely could have been a cause of why we'd periodically need a few turns to start, and/or experience rough running/idle right after starting.
> 
> ...


Now that it’s “cooling” down to the 90’s here this is my next project.

Did you replace any gasket/seal when reinstalling EGR?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I did not - the stock one (which is bolted on) still looked good.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

Apparently GM corporate is aware of this issue. My brother in law, who just got a 14 CTD with 50 k miles last month ( August 2017) had many of the issues described. After much hemming and hawing round, corporate told dealer to clean the TB and it resolved all of his rough running issues. I only have 25 k , but am not relishing having to do this in a year of two.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

DslGate said:


> I only have 25 k , but am not relishing having to do this in a year of two.


It's pretty easy, to be honest.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Exactly 63834 miles on ours.
> 
> Yes, I was definitely surprised at _how much_ PCV/oil was in there - and definitely mixing with the EGR and turning into...that.
> 
> ...


What is the squeaky squeak noise when car is shut off, is that the EGR valve?


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> What is the squeaky squeak noise when car is shut off, is that the EGR valve?


I’ve always wondered this too...what the heck is that?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It is the valves in the intake manifold runners - they close after the car is turned off.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

‘14 CTD 76,130 miles. Thanks again everyone for the excellent post, pulled and cleaned EGR took 45 minutes. No big surprises, a lot of dry black soot as expected but no wet oil. Cleaned up easily with carb/intake cleaner and toothbrush.



























Just to show others where EGR is located:















And lastly, I’d like to pull/clean the throttle plate but having trouble identifying where to find it. Any pics would be helpful. Thanks!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> ‘14 CTD 76,130 miles. Thanks again everyone for the excellent post, pulled and cleaned EGR took 45 minutes. No big surprises, a lot of dry black soot as expected but no wet oil. Cleaned up easily with carb/intake cleaner and toothbrush.
> 
> View attachment 244754
> View attachment 244762
> ...


Your second to last picture - move your circle down and to the left - where the charge piping 90s into. That's the throttle plate.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

*Throttle Plate Assembly?*

Is this the Throttle Plate Assy?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> Is this the Throttle Plate Assy?
> 
> View attachment 244810


Yup! That's it.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

My '14 CTD would not start so upon reading here, I bought the T-handle T30 and a T30 driver and pulled the EGR valve out (also had to take the bolts out of the wiring harness so it could be distracted). It was stuck open. It did not have that much soot in it but I used brake cleaner and re-installed it. Car fired right up.


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## KingWarren2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Clean your MAP sensor while you are at it.

Delete the EGR and run a catch can, your diesel will love you.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

It's very tempting!


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## KingWarren2 (Dec 2, 2017)

Do it, or end up like mine.

https://imgur.com/r3mh5V2

https://imgur.com/r3VH2Ew

Best mods I've ever done.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

Since my car is parked for winter, I don't think about visiting here much. I'll look into the condition of the MAP too!


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

I drove the car a bit this past weekend and it ran well. This morning, was going to take it to work as the roads are currently clear here. No go. Same symptoms as before...cranks may run very poorly for a few seconds then dies. Cranks, experiences some misfires that interrupts the cranking...ugly. So, out come the tools tonight and again the EGR valve is stuck open. Again cleaned it but this time worked the valve open and closed several times, the valve seemed sticky intermittently but also seemed to improve with working it open then allowing it to spring closed. Repeated this maybe 20 times and then reinstalled it. Again the car fired right up.

Next up, pricing an new EGR valve and weighing that against EGR delete and catch can.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

update: car was daily driven this week without any issues.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pavulon said:


> I drove the car a bit this past weekend and it ran well. This morning, was going to take it to work as the roads are currently clear here. No go. Same symptoms as before...cranks may run very poorly for a few seconds then dies. Cranks, experiences some misfires that interrupts the cranking...ugly. So, out come the tools tonight and again the EGR valve is stuck open. Again cleaned it but this time worked the valve open and closed several times, the valve seemed sticky intermittently but also seemed to improve with working it open then allowing it to spring closed. Repeated this maybe 20 times and then reinstalled it. Again the car fired right up.
> 
> Next up, pricing an new EGR valve and weighing that against EGR delete and catch can.


how many miles did this take


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Mine stuck open 20k miles ago, cleaned it and lubricant on the valve and worked it in and have had zero issues with EGR since.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

pavulon said:


> update: car was daily driven this week without any issues.





IndyDiesel said:


> Mine stuck open 20k miles ago, cleaned it and lubricant on the valve and worked it in and have had zero issues with EGR since.


I wondered about lubricating the EGR but had no idea what would not cause troubles down stream.



boraz said:


> how many miles did this take


46,4xx miles


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

My neighbor works on his Cummins diesel in his 43 foot motorhome, he had some I wanna say exhaust brake lubricant or something that could take heat, we added a couple drops and worked the valve open and closed several times. The EGR valve isn’t super expensive if one wanted to replace it.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

I looked around a bit and saw $280-310 just now. A few days ago, I thought I saw about $150-170 on a site (new) but do not see that now.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

https://www.google.com/search?q=555...8fjZAhVMwGMKHal7B38Q_AUIDSgE&biw=1920&bih=987


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-55593617-Original-Equipment-Washer/dp/B00S0FJXW8


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

and it looks like they recommend the plate be replaced every time also.... "REPLACE PART 12647009 EVERY TIME KIT 55593617 IS REPLACED".


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It is. Deleted cars with the EGR blocked off have a nice, clean, gunk-free intake tract.


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