# Timing over advanced



## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

I just replaced the 1.4l turbo in my Chevy cruze. I just pulled the old engine and put the other one in. Now it's saying my timing is over advanced. Can anyone walk me thru on how to fix it. I don't have the funds to pay to have it done


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Huh? Do you have a code? I'm confused.


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

Yes there's a code and it's saying the timing is over advanced. A friend of mine said it was the ecm and that since I changed motors I needed to have it flashed. I took it to a dealership and they just called and said the ecm is fine, but my timing was over advanced


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Timing is controlled by the ecm.

What's the code?


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

It came up with 4 or 5 different codes. I have them written down at home. But I was told that it was the ecm and just have it flashed and that would fix everything. But the Chevy dealership I took it to said the ecm is fine


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)




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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

According to that invoice you posted the dealer states that "the engine is possibly out of mechanical time."

Where did you get the engine from?
Is it new?
Have you checked compression?


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

What does that mean? It came from a salvage


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

If it's a salvage engine the timing of the crankshaft in relation to the Camshafts could be off.


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

So how do I fix it?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Steven jeffress said:


> So how do I fix it?


If you have to ask that question you probably shouldn't be fixing it yourself. I'll see if I can find a tutorial for you. If not I'll see about typing out a description.

Not to sound condescending but how is it that you know how to replace an engine but you don't know how to time one?

I've posted a how to I found below.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

How-To: Cruze/Sonic 1.4L Turbo LUV/LUJ Timing Adjustment


Cruze/Sonic 1.4L Turbo LUV/LUJ Timing Adjustment Overview: There's a surprising lack of articles on this subject, so I'm writing an article on how to adjust timing on the 1.4L Turbo. This will need to be done any time you have to remove a cam, a sprocket, or the timing chain for any reason...




www.cruzetalk.com


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

I'm not a mechanic. I'm mechanical inclined. I have a BS in chemistry so I have some intelligent. Plus I have a photographic memory. I have claimed to be a mechanic. If I had the money I would gladly pay someone but I'm only getting 32hrs of work a week so things are tight.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Steven jeffress said:


> I'm not a mechanic. I'm mechanical inclined. I have a BS in chemistry so I have some intelligent. Plus I have a photographic memory. I have claimed to be a mechanic. If I had the money I would gladly pay someone but I'm only getting 32hrs of work a week so things are tight.


Gotcha. To set/check timing you are going to need some special tools for the LUJ. The tutorial explains it pretty well.


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

Yes it does. I've already ordered them and a timing chain kit. I might as well replace everything with new parts. Thank u so much for your help.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Steven jeffress said:


> Yes it does. I've already ordered them and a timing chain kit. I might as well replace everything with new parts. Thank u so much for your help.


That's the best way to do it!  

Your welcome


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

So. The motor isn't running?


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

Yes it starts fine and for about 30 seconds it runs perfectly then it starts shuddering and missing


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

If one cam is off one tooth.

The motor either wouldn't run or run like crap from the start.


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

It runs perfect for about 30 seconds


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

That's what I'm getting at. 

You can't run perfect if mechanical timing is off.


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

Sir, I have no clue. As I said before I'm not a mechanic. When I start the car you cannot tell there's a thing wrong with it. It's smooth, no rattles, not shuddering. After a few seconds it cuts down abs starts shaking. There were other codes than what the dealer said. At least when I did it there were.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Your car runs perfect for 30 seconds.

It's probably not mechanical timing.

Do you understand now?

The car probably wouldn't run. Period. If mechanical timing was off.


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

Look at how does the car know the timing is off of the cams? Is there position feedback or pulse counter attached? Would look at that.


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

*What Does the P0016 Code Mean?*
Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0016 stands for Camshaft Position A – Camshaft Position Correlation (Bank 1). The P0016 code indicates that your car’s primary computer, which is also known as the powertrain control module (PCM), perceives the difference between the crankshaft position and camshaft position to be greater than specification. 
The crankshaft and camshaft(s) are the primary rotating components inside the engine. When the vehicle is running, the camshaft opens and closes the valves to let air (and fuel in a port-injected system) into the engine and exhaust gases out. 
Meanwhile, the crankshaft turns the linear motion from the pistons into the rotational force needed to propel your car.
A timing chain or timing belt connects the crankshaft and camshaft(s). The two must always be in sync—otherwise, the engine will either run poorly or not run at all.

If mechanical timing is good check Crank sensor


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

snowwy66 said:


> That's what I'm getting at.
> 
> You can't run perfect if mechanical timing is off.


P0016- it gives 31readings
P0017
P0016 pending
P0017 pending
P00443
P0016 permanent 
P0017 permanent


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Steven jeffress said:


> It runs perfect for about 30 seconds


Modern motors will often adjust valve timing on startup, and then back it off once running.

pull off the valve cover and see if the guide/chain at the top is loose before digging into it further.


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

Steven jeffress said:


> I just replaced the 1.4l turbo in my Chevy cruze. I just pulled the old engine and put the other one in. Now it's saying my timing is over advanced. Can anyone walk me thru on how to fix it. I don't have the funds to pay to have it done


My guess is.
Faulty sensor data getting back to the ECU (probably the least likely according to your dealer report codes), or the more likely culprit, something in the timing chain system, one of the cam sprockets is faulty and the ECU is unable to make the required timing adjustments in one or both of the cams. another possibility is a timing chain so worn out that the cam timing is getting out of range for the ECU to be able to control it and keep it within the range it needs to operate properly.
I'd start by looking at the timing chain, chain gears and tensioner, etc.
And it should be noted, this is not a small job either.


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

What if the flexwheel I used was off a later model and the crankshaft sensor can't read it?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Steven jeffress said:


> What if the flexwheel I used was off a later model and the crankshaft sensor can't read it?


It probably wouldn't run at all without a crank sensor signal.

The cam sensors have been known to go bad on a few though. A site search for the P0016/17 codes will turn up a few of those here.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I'm curious as to if the chain was replaced or not. By the previous owner. Or is it just worn out for some reason.

How many miles are on the motor?


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

Steven jeffress said:


> What if the flexwheel I used was off a later model and the crankshaft sensor can't read it?


You are exceeding my specific knowledge of this model of engine, unfortunately.
That being said, the basics are all the same: the crank position sensor (PCS) reads from a reluctor wheel or other sometimes magnetic pickups. Usually it's just a wheel with teeth on it.
I know the CPS is located on the flywheel/flex plate side of this engine, but I don't know for sure what it reads from, I've never had one apart. If it is reading from teeth or magnets on the flex plate, and they are different designs from your old one, then this could be your issue.
You need to look and see if there is a part number difference between the flex plate that CAME with your car, and the flex plate part number for the model/year your replacement came from. Also cross check the CP sensor if you used the one from the junk yard (you should use the one that came with your car because the ECU expect a particular signal from that sensor part#). If the part numbers are different for the flex plates, you might have a problem, but like I said, this is beyond my experience with this engine. You really only need to look at the sensor and see what it is physically reading, it will be pointing directly at some spinning part of the engine with a small gap between the two. that will be the part it is reading from. that particular spinning part should be the match the the part# that came with your car.
I know how these systems work, it's the same on pretty much all modern engines, it's just done in slightly different ways.
So yes, you could definitely be on to something with this suspicion. Just double check and compare flex plates between your original engine and the replacement before you start shooting the parts cannon... I would also see if your GM shop will let you talk to one of their techs if you find a discrepancy and verify what I'm saying here. They know the details usually. Quite frankly, I hope for your sake this isn't the problem because swapping a flex plate will mean... yea, you have to pull the engine again.Yuck


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

jblackburn said:


> It probably wouldn't run at all without a crank sensor signal.
> 
> The cam sensors have been known to go bad on a few though. A site search for the P0016/17 codes will turn up a few of those here.


thats what I was guessing as well, but if it is communicating with the sensor, but not getting valid signal back, I have no idea what the result would be. I don't know how it could figure out when to fire the coils without it


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

The coils are supposed to be off the cams.
Injectors too.

The crank is just used for the ecm to determine #1 TDC. SO it keeps firing order in check.


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## ForgedCrank (Mar 18, 2021)

snowwy66 said:


> The coils are supposed to be off the cams.
> Injectors too.
> 
> The crank is just used for the ecm to determine #1 TDC. SO it keeps firing order in check.


yea, sounding more and more like something with the timing chain or cam sprockets


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

Hey guys I just wanted to say THANK YOU for all of the help and advice you're providing. I can't tell u how much I appreciate it. I was thinking about replacing the crankshaft sensor, since I have 2 extra before I tackle the camshafts. It's a good **** thing this is a secondary vehicle. Lol


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

I thought I'd update everyone. I got the timing tool set in today from Amazon, but as I was rereading all of y'all's comments,I decided to change out the wiring harness, I mean I have 3. what could it hurt?I just finished a little while ago about 40 minutes, the car has been idling this whole time. The only thing I could find wrong is it needs to be idled up a little.


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

Well it didn't last long. It started shuddering and making a noise from the back of the motor. I pulled the valve cover and timing chain is tight and it is in time. I bought another flexwheel but I wasn't sure if I should go ahead and change it or what?


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Steven jeffress said:


> Well it didn't last long. It started shuddering and making a noise from the back of the motor. I pulled the valve cover and timing chain is tight and it is in time. I bought another flexwheel but I wasn't sure if I should go ahead and change it or what?


I know what flywheels and flexplates are, but have no clue what a flexwheel is. The Camshaft position sensors and the crankshaft position sensor are interrelated. Here are a few videos on testing and removing them:


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## Steven jeffress (Apr 17, 2020)

I changed out the flexplate and it solved the crankshaft sensor problem, but now it's saying that the oil pressure is too low and too shut the engine off.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Steven jeffress said:


> I changed out the flexplate and it solved the crankshaft sensor problem, but now it's saying that the oil pressure is too low and too shut the engine off.


Any update on this yet?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I think the plate is only used one time for starting purposes. For the ecu to determine #1TDC.

After that. It's strictly cam use to fire injectors and spark.


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