# A Curious Question About Oil



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Mine originally said 0-20. Dealer first oil change and it's 5 - 30 now.


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## ditty8107 (May 25, 2018)

So pure conjecture on this but they use 0-20 for break-in then switch to the oil specced for normal use. I still have the 0-20 cap since mine hasn't gotten its first oil change yet. Tempted to take it in this weekend since its at 3200 but oil life is still saying 56%...


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## Heretic (Apr 25, 2018)

ditty8107 said:


> So pure conjecture on this but they use 0-20 for break-in then switch to the oil specced for normal use.


Sounds like you're right, the 0W-20 is used as a break-in oil and 5W-30 after the break-in period. I just find it odd that nowhere in the manual or anywhere else have I seen this officially documented. 



ditty8107 said:


> Tempted to take it in this weekend since its at 3200 but oil life is still saying 56%...


As hot as that turbo gets and as hard as that oil has to work, I would always err on the side of caution with the oil in these vehicles. Personally, I won't let it go below 40% or so. That's also why I use nothing but top-tier 93-octane fuel in the car, which it runs much better on. A few bucks extra to save that motor and its pistons as much as possible sounds like a good trade to me. Just my 2 cents.


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## ditty8107 (May 25, 2018)

So I got my first of my 5 free oil changes. The oil they use is 0w-20 Synthetic Oil. The cap wasn't changed out nor a different type of Oil. However this is a 2018 LE2 so that may be part of the equation. I will say though that the oil change quieted her up quite a bit. I was truly amazed.


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## neile300c (Jul 8, 2014)

From what was discussed in an earlier thread about this is that the 16 and 17 Gen 2's are recommended to get 530. The 18's now get Ow20, which to me is weird considering the issues that the early engines seem to have with pre ignition spark.

In the owner's manual on the 18's it states 0w20 is the oil required for the gas engine.


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## SClapsaddle (Jun 1, 2018)

I change mine at 50% oil life, the oil is dirty at that point, I don't trust it to get any dirtier especially with the turbo...


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## llbanks522 (Nov 23, 2017)

neile300c said:


> In the owner's manual on the 18's it states 0w20 is the oil required for the gas engine.


Anybody in our forum know why the change between 2017 / 2018.? My 2017 LT manual calls for 5/30.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

llbanks522 said:


> Anybody in our forum know why the change between 2017 / 2018.? My 2017 LT manual calls for 5/30.


They changed the oil to help deal with LSPI there was TSB starting 17's should use Dexos 1 second gen (full synthetic) 0-20 it has nothing to do with break in oil 
I have an 18RS and my owners manual states 0-20w ONLY!

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## neile300c (Jul 8, 2014)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/377-gen2-powertrain/226009-2018-0w-20-a.html


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Mine originally said 0-20. Dealer first oil change and it's 5 - 30 now.


I would talk to another dealer and make sure.
GM stated the 5-30w was part of the LSPI 
problem.

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## Heretic (Apr 25, 2018)

That must have been a very sudden, abrupt change for Chevy to alter the oil spec without even having enough 0W-20 filler caps to equip all the new Cruzes. I worked for a lot of years in the engineering dept of a major automotive mfr making component parts. Even a mild mid-production change like changing the oil spec is an earth-shattering event. Such events are usually planned for months unless the changeover is driven by something major. Could it possibly be that something GM figured out in their root-cause-analysis about the engine problem being caused by the 5W-30 oil? I can't imagine anything about a slightly heavier oil causing such problems, but something sure put a bee under their saddle.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> I would talk to another dealer and make sure.
> GM stated the 5-30w was part of the LSPI
> problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Where's the news on your statement?

If that's the case. Wouldn't there need to be a customer notification and 0-20 caps sent out?

I just recall a 0 cap when i got my car. And thinking a lower weight oil then the hyundai I traded in which was 5-30. I thought they'd both be the same. 

I won't take my car back to dealer for second free or future oil changes. Their oil is lower quality then the original oil my car was shipped with. Mileage dropped from 32 to 28 and engine never cooled down during 12 hour work days. At 70 degrees. I'm back up to 36 using penz and the car cools down.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Heretic said:


> That must have been a very sudden, abrupt change for Chevy to alter the oil spec without even having enough 0W-20 filler caps to equip all the new Cruzes. I worked for a lot of years in the engineering dept of a major automotive mfr making component parts. Even a mild mid-production change like changing the oil spec is an earth-shattering event. Such events are usually planned for months unless the changeover is driven by something major. Could it possibly be that something GM figured out in their root-cause-analysis about the engine problem being caused by the 5W-30 oil? I can't imagine anything about a slightly heavier oil causing such problems, but something sure put a bee under their saddle.


The abrupt change was in response to 1.4T and 1.5T melting pistons because of Low Speed Pre Ignition (LSPI) I read it had something to do with oil droplets in the combustion chamber Pre Igniting from the engines heat being produced. This is a well documented problem with these engines.
The also reprogrammed the ECU's on these engines to run a bit leaner I believe and to use full synthetic Dexos 1 2nd gen. Oil only.
Not sure if it was a switch to 0-20 also.
I read that letters were sent to some Malibu customers explaining the need to get the ECU reflashed and amendment to the owners manual about the changes in oil requirements not sure about Cruze owners.

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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Where's the news on your statement?
> 
> If that's the case. Wouldn't there need to be a customer notification and 0-20 caps sent out?
> 
> ...


You state that you saw the 0 cap when you got the car? Then why use 5-30? 
" The news" on my statement, is all the investigating I've been doing about the risk of a tune and warranty.
I'm not sure if 17's are being suggested to use 0 weight but I know for sure according to a GM TSB (I saw somewhere in this forum ) from dexos 1 to dexos 1 gen 2 which is full synthetic.
My 18 has a 0-20 cap and the owners manual specifies 0-20 dexos 1 gen 2 for all oil changes.
It seems there seems to be more care being givin to Malibu 1.5 owners than cruze owners.

https://gm.oemdtc.com/7357/17019-02...ing-cracked-piston-2016-2017-chevrolet-malibu


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

alanl11 said:


> You state that you saw the 0 cap when you got the car? Then why use 5-30?
> " The news" on my statement, is all the investigating I've been doing about the risk of a tune and warranty.
> I'm not sure if 17's are being suggested to use 0 weight but I know for sure according to a GM TSB (I saw somewhere in this forum ) from dexos 1 to dexos 1 gen 2 which is full synthetic.
> My 18 has a 0-20 cap and the owners manual specifies 0-20 dexos 1 gen 2 for all oil changes.
> ...


The cap on the car says 5. The owners manual says 5. So that's what i use. I just figured the 0 cap was a mistake.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Just a note, viscosity will not change whether or not LSPI occurs. That was most likely done to chase fuel economy. GM's dexos1 gen2 spec also allows 4 LSPI events during the test in order to pass. I'd rather have 0 events, which is how all of AMSOIL's oils for this car test.


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## blackbird (Nov 6, 2017)

To add a comment on when to change the oil, I've owned turbo Mopars, GMs and Fords since the 90s and have always run a quality synthetic oil in all my cars. GM makes a very good oil life monitor and if you use an oil that meets their minimum specification to which it's programmed for there's no need to change it at 40-50% life remaining.

It won't hurt, and if you it gives you peace of mind I'd so go for it, but a better suggestion would be to spend part of the money you'd have used for the oil change and put it towards having your used oil tested at a reputable lab. I've personally used Blackstone Labs for years and there a few other choices on the market now.

As an example, I've ran my Cobalt SS Turbo at atuo-x events, dozens and dozens of passes down the drag strip and even down to 0% life remaining the testing showed there was still likely another 3k+ miles life left in the oil. If you use a quality filter that captures the larger particles it's almost always going to be the additive package in the oil that gets used up neutralizing acids and providing enhanced wear prevention characteristics.

While I haven't owned a 1.4L turbo or the 1.8L naturally aspirated Cruze engine (we do have one in my extended family), every engine is different so how long you can _safely_ go on the oil will depend on the specific engine and your individual driving conditions. I'm sure over on the oil forums or even here you might be able to track down some used oil analysis (UOA) reports to get an idea based on scientific testing how hard the engine is on oil.

And if that backs up the GM oil life monitor you could always run the full service life or longer (if out of warranty) and use the money towards periodic testing. In addition to telling how much life is remaining in the oil it's also a great way to spot other internal engine problems early, such identifying tiny amounts of coolant getting into the oil, if something is prematurely wearing, how well your air filter is keeping contaminants out, etc.


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## Heretic (Apr 25, 2018)

alanl11 said:


> The abrupt change was in response to 1.4T and 1.5T melting pistons because of Low Speed Pre Ignition (LSPI) I read it had something to do with oil droplets in the combustion chamber Pre Igniting from the engines heat being produced. This is a well documented problem with these engines.
> The also reprogrammed the ECU's on these engines to run a bit leaner I believe and to use full synthetic Dexos 1 2nd gen. Oil only.
> Not sure if it was a switch to 0-20 also.
> I read that letters were sent to some Malibu customers explaining the need to get the ECU reflashed and amendment to the owners manual about the changes in oil requirements not sure about Cruze owners.
> ...


Aye, a saucy tale if there ever was one. Just one thing missing... PROOF... Any kind of proof whatsoever. This is NOT an attack on you, alanl11, so please don't take it as one. "I heard" and "I read" do NOT constitute proof and if indeed that's the case, then why hasn't GM contacted the rest of us who bought from a GM dealer? Something just doesn't smell right here.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackbird said:


> To add a comment on when to change the oil, I've owned turbo Mopars, GMs and Fords since the 90s and have always run a quality synthetic oil in all my cars. GM makes a very good oil life monitor and if you use an oil that meets their minimum specification to which it's programmed for there's no need to change it at 40-50% life remaining.
> 
> It won't hurt, and if you it gives you peace of mind I'd so go for it, but a better suggestion would be to spend part of the money you'd have used for the oil change and put it towards having your used oil tested at a reputable lab. I've personally used Blackstone Labs for years and there a few other choices on the market now.
> 
> ...


Just a bit of caution here. Blackstone doesn't test anywhere nearly enough metrics to make a reliable judgment on how much longer someone can drive on a given oil. Oxidation, for example, is a very important metric in turbo engines that Blackstone doesn't test for. 

TBN is nonlinear and is not an absolute number, it has to be interpreted. Some oils should not go below a certain number. For example, if you're running Rotella diesel oil in a truck, oil needs to be changed before base oil drops below 4.0, but if you're running AMSOIL or Lubrication Engineers, you can often get base number down to even 0.5 and still maintain protection. It's not as black and white as it looks. 

GM oil life monitors are not that great. I have a whole folder on my computer full of sludged up 1.4L turbo engines from 2011 and 2012 Cruzes that were dealer maintained at OLM recommended intervals. Maybe they've gotten better, but the engines have also become harder on oil. 

Oil analysis is very limited in scope and testing ability. Just wanted to caution you from reading too far into one. They are only really useful when evaluated as trending. One single oil analysis tells you very little. Furthermore, your effective range for particle counts is 1-6 microns, which will not catch serious wear such as that of component failure and will also miss wear that occurs below the 1 micron size, which I've noticed most turbo bearing wear falls under (an observation from reviewing oil analysis reports for many years). Without something like ASTM D7647 particle count testing, the wear numbers you get in a basic oil analysis is like looking into a dark room through a keyhole and trying to explain what's inside to a blind man that barely speaks your language.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Heretic said:


> Personally, I won't let it go below 40% or so.


The oil life monitors on cars are extremely conservative. At the point they reach 0% they actually have something like 40% of the oil life remaining if you are using full synthetic oil.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> The cap on the car says 5. The owners manual says 5. So that's what i use. I just figured the 0 cap was a mistake.


This is our of my 18 owners manual.
But yours is a 17 correct. 

* Dexos1 approved ACDelco FullSynthetic 0W20 engine oil.

* . Dexos1 approved Mobil 1 FullSynthetic 0W20 engine oil.

* . Or any other 0W20 engine oilmeeting dexos1 secondgeneration requirements.

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## Heretic (Apr 25, 2018)

alanl11 said:


> This is our of my 18 owners manual.
> But yours is a 17 correct.
> 
> * Dexos1 approved ACDelco FullSynthetic 0W20 engine oil.
> ...


My 2017 owner's manual says on page 275, right underneath the heading "Viscosity Grade", "Use SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade engine oil." It goes on to say, "Cold Temperature Operation: In an area of extreme cold, where the temperature falls below -29°C (-20°F), an SAE 0W-30 oil may be used." Right above that is the warning from GM that "Failure to use the recommended engine oil or equivalent can result in engine damage not covered under the vehicle warranty." 

So, if GM wants me to use something else in this engine, they'd better inform me (and the rest of us). Actually, I suspect that the change has got nothing to do with the piston failures and is targeted at fuel mileage. Every minute gain in fuel mileage helps with the gooberment's silly mpg numbers. I simply cannot imagine a scenario where that slight of a change in viscosity, especially to the thicker side, could cause that kind of piston damage.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I suspect extensive testing hadn't been done on the Dexos formulation of 0w-20 when the new motor was released for the 2016/17 model years. It appears that the LE2 dilutes the oil with fuel FAR less than many GDI engines on the market, which means that it doesn't thin out to lower viscosities nearly as quickly.

Who knows, they may have changed something internally as well between the years. I know that the 2018's are built with the newer, redesigned pistons as well.

Regardless, if your car says 5w-30, I'd run that. If it says 0w-20, you'd probably be just fine running either weight. Other manufacturers, and I believe even GM with the 5.3, switched over viscosities mid-model cycle.


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## nobog (Oct 25, 2011)

My 2018 manual (pg 267) and cap says 0w-20, 5-30 for diesel.

JK


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## Heretic (Apr 25, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> I know that the 2018's are built with the newer, redesigned pistons as well.


Have you any info about what design attributes were changed on the redesigned pistons? Knowing what attributes were changed would go a long way toward revealing what went wrong with the original design and how common the problem may be. 



jblackburn said:


> Regardless, if your car says 5w-30, I'd run that. If it says 0w-20, you'd probably be just fine running either weight. Other manufacturers, and I believe even GM with the 5.3, switched over viscosities mid-model cycle.


I intend to. I'm not a big fan of what I consider "sewing machine oil". The watery-thin 0-grade oils are probably fine in cold weather, but I don't put much faith into such a concoction protecting a turbocharged, high-heat engine while stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic in a Southern summer with ambient temps pushing 100°


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

Barry Allen said:


> The oil life monitors on cars are extremely conservative. At the point they reach 0% they actually have something like 40% of the oil life remaining if you are using full synthetic oil.


At the risk of sounding like a Spinal Tap amplifier discussion,if the monitor is meant to give us an indication of oil life, why would the engineers make 40% = 0%? Why not 40% = 40%?


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## llbanks522 (Nov 23, 2017)

SilverCruzer said:


> At the risk of sounding like a Spinal Tap amplifier discussion,if the monitor is meant to give us an indication of oil life, why would the engineers make 40% = 0%? Why not 40% = 40%?


To quote another forum member:
”Most people don’t change oil when needed”

Therein lies the thinking of the Engineers, besides being *Ultra Conservative. *When percents get down to zero or amber color coded symbols like “low gas” show up people will take notice. Changing oil regularly is one of the easiest things to do to really extend your engine life.


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

llbanks522 said:


> Changing oil regularly is one of the easiest things to do to really extend your engine life.


And along with that, changing your oil too often is a waste of time, money, and resources. The point of an oil life monitor is to fix BOTH of those issues. If we have to second guess what the percentages really mean, then there is no point in the monitor. It adds confusion and should be removed to force us back to checking the dipstick for clarity and volume.


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## llbanks522 (Nov 23, 2017)

SilverCruzer said:


> And along with that, changing your oil too often is a waste of time, money, and resources. The point of an oil life monitor is to fix BOTH of those issues. If we have to second guess what the percentages really mean, then there is no point in the monitor. It adds confusion and should be removed to force us back to checking the dipstick for clarity and volume.


I agree “too often” is a waste. You’ll have to tell your GM Engineers to get OM more in line with reality.


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## Tom-Cruze (May 17, 2013)

For your GM vehicles that require synthetic oil,this is worth a look. Price attractive.Quality assured. Other weights available.$13.99/5 Qt.
https://www.ruralking.com/oil-hk-5w30-full-synthetic-5qt
Quality Assurance:
https://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand1/


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tom-Cruze said:


> For your GM vehicles that require synthetic oil,this is worth a look. Price attractive.Quality assured. Other weights available.$13.99/5 Qt.
> https://www.ruralking.com/oil-hk-5w30-full-synthetic-5qt
> Quality Assurance:
> https://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand1/


I can assure you at that price, it isn't 100% synthetic. 

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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I can assure you at that price, it isn't 100% synthetic.
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV using Tapatalk


With all the piston problems I certainly wont use it.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Even Dexos1 certified/approved oils aren't doing enough to prevent LSPI and consequent piston damage. AMSOIL is the only company out there right now that is claiming complete protection against LSPI with GM's dexos1 LSPI Test.


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## Tom-Cruze (May 17, 2013)

Good to know!
What about this?
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/lspi-protection


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tom-Cruze said:


> Good to know!
> What about this?
> https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/lspi-protection


Mobil 1 has made a lot of claims in the past, and not all of them are reliable. They like to play marketing gymnastics. They say that they have "outstanding LSPI protection," but what exactly does that mean? 

When AMSOIL makes such a claim, they back it by saying that they have 0 LSPI events on GM's dexos1 gen2 LSPI testing, across five consecutive tests. Now, that test allows 4 events to pass, and the LSPI test in API SN Plus allows five events for their test. Mobil 1 merely tells you that their oil meet the spec. 

I'm not really concerned with minimum performance specifications like API SN Plus that set as low of a bar as possible to allow just about any auto maker to pass. I'm more concerned with absolute protection. 

A good friend of mine, Austin Eatman, had an engine replaced due to LSPI causing a piston to crack, at 41,000 miles on a 2.0T Malibu (Gen II LTG). He was using Mobil 1. The engine was very clean internally (I can post pictures as proof since he sent them to me), but that didn't really matter. His results with Mobil 1 indicate that the performance of lubricants built to a minimum performance/lowest cost target is sometimes still not enough. 

Mobil 1 doesn't claim to have 0 LSPI events across a single test, let alone five consecutive tests. AMSOIL does.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Mobil 1 has made a lot of claims in the past, and not all of them are reliable. They like to play marketing gymnastics. They say that they have "outstanding LSPI protection," but what exactly does that mean?
> 
> When AMSOIL makes such a claim, they back it by saying that they have 0 LSPI events on GM's dexos1 gen2 LSPI testing, across five consecutive tests. Now, that test allows 4 events to pass, and the LSPI test in API SN Plus allows five events for their test. Mobil 1 merely tells you that their oil meet the spec.
> 
> ...


Can you elaborate on what LSPI means? Thanks.


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## Cruzen18 (Jan 28, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> Can you elaborate on what LSPI means? Thanks.



*LSPI (low speed pre ignition)* is an unfortunate event in which the fuel-air mixture ignites before intended, causing excessive pressures inside the cylinders.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> Can you elaborate on what LSPI means? Thanks.


Pretty much what Cruzen18 said. Direct injected turbo engines are particularly susceptible to it although it can happen in rare instances on our Gen1 gassers too. It is caused by two factors: tuning, and the rapid oxidation of oil droplets in the combustion chamber. Telltale signs are piston ring lands cracking and breaking off. 

Tuning will only get you so far, the rest has to be oil quality. GM improved the specification for dexos1 gen2 by requiring LSPI testing, but the test still allows 4 events to occur during the test in order to pass, which defeats the purpose. Then again, if they required 0 events, there would only be a handful of oils that could pass the test.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

IMHO, all of this discussion re LSPI, is why 2 more naturally aspirated cylinders are better than turbo 4's. Yes the 4's are lighter, make plenty of power, etc but longevity and trouble free operation are hard to achieve. Remember the auto business is tough, margins are tight. Manufacturers just want their stuff to last through the warranty period. Turbos are hard on the fixtures....


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

JRB'sOilburningCruze said:


> IMHO, all of this discussion re LSPI, is why 2 more naturally aspirated cylinders are better than turbo 4's. Yes the 4's are lighter, make plenty of power, etc but longevity and trouble free operation are hard to achieve. Remember the auto business is tough, margins are tight. Manufacturers just want their stuff to last through the warranty period. Turbos are hard on the fixtures....


I agree in the 200+ HP class; I'd rather have the V6. N/A 4-cylinders though...ugh.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> I agree in the 200+ HP class; I'd rather have the V6. N/A 4-cylinders though...ugh.


And in the case of the V6 in the '16+ Camaro with the NPP, they'll sound a **** of a lot better, too.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MP81 said:


> And in the case of the V6 in the '16+ Camaro with the NPP, they'll sound a **** of a lot better, too.


Oh heck yes. The GM 2.0T sounds like crap and that V6 loves to rev and sounds pretty decent doing it. Granted, Fords Ecoboost 2.3 in the Mustang isn't much better sounding.

I was kinda excited to see GM plans on keeping the V6 around in future vehicles, like the newly announced Blazer. 

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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Oh heck yes. The GM 2.0T sounds like crap and that V6 loves to rev and sounds pretty decent doing it. Granted, Fords Ecoboost 2.3 in the Mustang isn't much better sounding.
> 
> I was kinda excited to see GM plans on keeping the V6 around in future vehicles, like the newly announced Blazer.


The 2.0T certainly sounds better than that god-awful 2.3L EcoOrBoost, but overall it's really pretty quiet. There are a few of the latter on Woodward with catbacks, and never, ever, should a Mustang sound like that. Makes my Cobalt sound _good_ - that is hard to do.

For what it's worth, the old 2.3L, from the SVO days, sounds much, much better.


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## Tom-Cruze (May 17, 2013)

So,at this point in time with LSPI issues and to keep my GM warranty on my 2018 Cruze LT, do you recommend oil changes be performed at the dealer?


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Tom-Cruze said:


> So,at this point in time with LSPI issues and to keep my GM warranty on my 2018 Cruze LT, do you recommend oil changes be performed at the dealer?


No not really a better oil will protect better dealer oil is minimal protection. Amsoil ia the only brand staying it surpasses Dexos and had no LSPI events Dexos standard allows for some. But I'm using Mobile 1 in my 18'
The best thing you can do would be use 91-93 octane fuel. 87 is much more prone to LSPI. plus your car will perform better on higher obtain. JMO 

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## Tom-Cruze (May 17, 2013)

I am thinking that if the oil changes are maintained by the dealer and something went wrong with the pistons etc,there would be no argument from them that I caused it by using another manufacturers oil. Does this seem like something the dealer would try to accuse? I have always changed my own oil for the last 45 years.


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Tom-Cruze said:


> I am thinking that if the oil changes are maintained by the dealer and something went wrong with the pistons etc,there would be no argument from them that I caused it by using another manufacturers oil. Does this seem like something the dealer would try to accuse? I have always changed my own oil for the last 45 years.


The piston Problem is well documented the 1.5 Malibu and the 1 4 Cruze from 2016.5 to 2017 there are many threads in this forum about it. Just keep your receipts to prove you used dexos 1 gen 2, spec oil and they can't say anything. 

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## Slayinit (Jan 8, 2013)

As long as you keep receipts & maintenance records, reset your OLM and other service reminders, coverage for any defects should be covered under warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act would come into play if you were denied warranty coverage. I like to wrench my own rides ever since a very bad visit to an indie shop & a Jiffy Lube fiasco back in my early 20's (2 separate jobs) cost me a lot of time, money and stress. Fool me twice...


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## Tom-Cruze (May 17, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your expertise.


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## blackbird (Nov 6, 2017)

I'd second the previous suggestion. While having the dealer change the oil and establishing a relationship with them _might_ help _if_ you unfortunately were rare statistical blip where there was a major engine failure within warranty coverage, but you may pay a lot more than changing it yourself or buying the right oil and having an independent shop change it.

The key is to document that you're using an oil that meets GM's standards, using a quality filter, and changing it on schedule and/or as required by the oil life monitor. If you did have a failure and a bad dealer there's a good chance they may balk anyway. A bad dealer is a bad dealer, so the important thing is to make sure you're maintining the car to GM requirements.


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## 17Hatch6MT (Dec 28, 2015)

I see that Amsoil asserts its oils have been tested as meeting Dexos 1 Gen 2, in fact, that it passes with flying colors. But I read somewhere else on this forum that GM doesn't list Amsoil as compliant. I think the reason given was that Amsoil didn't pay GM a fee. Could it also be that GM employs a different test lab and wants Amsoil to submit samples to that lab? Comments?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

17Hatch6MT said:


> I see that Amsoil asserts its oils have been tested as meeting Dexos 1 Gen 2, in fact, that it passes with flying colors. But I read somewhere else on this forum that GM doesn't list Amsoil as compliant. I think the reason given was that Amsoil didn't pay GM a fee. Could it also be that GM employs a different test lab and wants Amsoil to submit samples to that lab? Comments?


Licensing fee. They don't want to pay them to put their logo on it. It isn't one of the huge oil companies like Exxon or Shell that can throw their $ around freely. 

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## Tom-Cruze (May 17, 2013)

17Hatch6MT said:


> I see that Amsoil asserts its oils have been tested as meeting Dexos 1 Gen 2, in fact, that it passes with flying colors. But I read somewhere else on this forum that GM doesn't list Amsoil as compliant. I think the reason given was that Amsoil didn't pay GM a fee. Could it also be that GM employs a different test lab and wants Amsoil to submit samples to that lab? Comments?[/QUOT*E]
> "But I read somewhere else on this forum that GM doesn't list Amsoil as compliant."
> *
> With my luck, that would be the "gotcha" that the dealer would use against me.lol


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## alanl11 (Apr 8, 2018)

Tom-Cruze said:


> 17Hatch6MT said:
> 
> 
> > I see that Amsoil asserts its oils have been tested as meeting Dexos 1 Gen 2, in fact, that it passes with flying colors. But I read somewhere else on this forum that GM doesn't list Amsoil as compliant. I think the reason given was that Amsoil didn't pay GM a fee. Could it also be that GM employs a different test lab and wants Amsoil to submit samples to that lab? Comments?[/QUOT*E]
> ...


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## 14'ecocruze (Nov 18, 2016)

I always worried about using amsoil but seeing as I'm almost out of warranty the worry is gone. Just hoping it keeps this little car going until they get something even better that's cost effective. Cheap econo cars are probably all ill ever drive now. Vs a 30k+ luxury sedan that get half the mileage.


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## blackbird (Nov 6, 2017)

They make some nice oils that test well but don't pay a lot of the specific testing and licensing fees some manufacturers require for their vehicles. My personal biggest problem with them is their marketing. I personally don't like the direct sales model. There's many great, high quality synthetics that are easier to find, often cheaper, and some that provide better protection in certain applications.


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## Farmerboy (Sep 2, 2012)

Concerning easier to find oil, it may be because I am only about 6 hrs from Amsoil’s Dallas warehouse but if I order my oil by noon I have it at my door the next day. And that is normal Ups shipping. No running into town, no facing the crowds. And for a price very little different than Walmart. And I have yet to ever experience what some have talked about that they feel during an Lspi event. ?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackbird said:


> They make some nice oils that test well but don't pay a lot of the specific testing and licensing fees some manufacturers require for their vehicles. My personal biggest problem with them is their marketing. I personally don't like the direct sales model. There's many great, high quality synthetics that are easier to find, often cheaper, and some that provide better protection in certain applications.


No manufacturer requires an oil used in their vehicle to be certified and approved. That is a fact. Check every owner's manual you want to and you'll find some legal gymnastics going on with the wording. They will always say something like "meets dexos1," or "only high quality oil should be used, look for an oil with the dexos1 stamp on the label" or something of that nature. E-mail their customer service as I have an I guarantee they will never put in writing that your warranty will be voided by using XYZ brand of oil. 

If you don't like the direct sales model, which often affords you lower pricing and a friendly, human representative that can answer all of your questions, then you are always free to go straight to the website and pay full retail price. 

What comparable synthetics do you know of that are easier to find? I know of Motul, Schaeffer, and Redline that compete in the high quality synthetic oil market. Of the four, they're all about equally difficult (or easy, depending on how you look at it) to purchase, with comparable costs when comparing comparable products (AMSOIL's XL to any of those). If you think any "full synthetic" oil made by the majors is a "high quality synthetic," I guess we have a stark disagreement on what the definition of a "high quality" oil is, and what "synthetic" really means. To me, if the oil has 65% cheap hydrocracked group 3 as primary base oil and 35% cheap conventional as additive carrier, with VI additives that are not shear stable and is listed as "full synthetic" because there are no marketing laws preventing them from doing so, they are not the same level of quality as a high end GTL based group 3 oil might be, let alone a group 4 PAO blended with Ester using GTL group 3 as an additive carrier. 

Perhaps my disagreeing with you doesn't help the fact that you don't like the direct sales model, but I'd rather speak my mind and what I've learned from 5 years of lubrication engineering research and studies (I'm getting an STLE CLS in October) when someone acts like AMSOIL or any other of the high end oil companies offer nothing exceptional compared to what the majors are selling.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Farmerboy said:


> Concerning easier to find oil, it may be because I am only about 6 hrs from Amsoil’s Dallas warehouse but if I order my oil by noon I have it at my door the next day. And that is normal Ups shipping. No running into town, no facing the crowds. And for a price very little different than Walmart. And I have yet to ever experience what some have talked about that they feel during an Lspi event. ?


Shipping is 1-3 business days for just about everyone in the US, and most in Canada. There are a number of distribution centers across the country that ensure shipping is prompt. 

https://www.amsoil.com/ammap/distromap/distrolocator.aspx


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tom-Cruze said:


> 17Hatch6MT said:
> 
> 
> > I see that Amsoil asserts its oils have been tested as meeting Dexos 1 Gen 2, in fact, that it passes with flying colors. But I read somewhere else on this forum that GM doesn't list Amsoil as compliant. I think the reason given was that Amsoil didn't pay GM a fee. Could it also be that GM employs a different test lab and wants Amsoil to submit samples to that lab? Comments?
> ...


Here's how I understand that tidbit, and feel free to research this yourself. Note _I am not speaking on behalf of AMSOIL, Inc_. 

Beside the fact that AMSOIL (and other oils like Motul, Schaeffer, and Redline) refuse to pay the approval/licensing fees and royalties, it is possible for an oil to be too good to be certified. This comes down to regulatory limitations in states that think they know better, like California. For example, California places limitations on Sulfur levels in engine oil. Since sulfur is found as a contaminant in crude and is generally not good for the environment in cheap oils with high volatility that consume at a rapid rate, this makes sense. I mean why wouldn't you want cleaner oils? However, California lacks the foresight to understand that sulfur is also used in additives that produce sulfated ash when burned (one reason we can't use such oils in the CTD but have no issues with gasoline engines). This includes antioxidants, anti-wear additives, detergents, and soot dispersion, all of which are found in fortified quantities in AMSOIL's Signature Series oils to support the 15,000-25,000 mile intervals the oil is rated for. This is one reason none of the majors makes an oil that is rated for those intervals with a TBN of 12+. 

Because AMSOIL's Signature Series oils have an exceptionally good shear stability and exceptionally low volatility, these sulfur levels are inconsequential to the emissions control equipment or any pollution created by engines that use this oil, but exceeding them, even by a tiny amount, makes it impossible to certify with certain specifications that want to remain CA-compliant. In effect, such specifications limit how good an oil can be. 

Frankly, this is all a bit of a moot point since oil specifications set a very low bar for oil quality. Why should I care that an oil must be at most a 15% NOACK volatility (API SN), or a 13% NOACK volatility (dexos1), or a 10% NOACK volatility (MB 229.5), when AMSOIL's Signature Series comes in at 6.7%? If you obsess over minimum quality/performance specifications, that's precisely what you end up with: bare minimum necessary. AMSOIL, Schaeffer, Motul, Redline, Torco, Joe Gibbs, and a variety of other high performance companies don't waste their development and marketing dollars on such specifications and oil taxes (like dexos1) when they know their products (especially their flagship products) are so far above what is required that it's laughable to even discuss the importance of said approval. 

AMSOIL's OE, XL, and Signature Series oils are far beyond the performance required by those specifications. GM's primary concern with you using a dexos1 certified/approved oil in the context of aforementioned synthetic oils is not to ensure you aren't going to damage your engine with sub-par quality oils, but to rake in more oil royalty dollars through their dexos1 licensing scheme.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Keep in mind, whenever one of these oil makers/blenders produces a lubricant, they send it off to an independent lab like Polaris Labs or Southwest Research Institute to perform standardized testing. All of these specifications like dexos1 and API SN are based on the result of standardized testing. They set limitations, like 30mg for ASTM D6335 or 15% for ASTM D8500, and the oil manufacturer must ensure that their oil does not exceed those minimum specifications if they wish to certify. 

The reason I am explaining this is to point out that the oil maker already knows whether or not they will pass that certification/approval/specification. If a new specification comes out, as long as a new test isn't introduced (such as with dexos1 gen2 and API SN Plus, which add LSPI testing), they know exactly whether or not the oil meets that specification. For example, here are the ASTM test results and limitations listed for the MB specifications as of 2012:

http://www.lubritecinc.com/PDF/MB_Spec_EO_Service_Oils_2012.1.pdf

If you read through the first column, you'll find a myriad of standardized tests that the oil must go through. Sometimes, the manufacturer simply reports the results and sends those results to the manufacturer for approval. Other times, the manufacturer must simply ensure that the oil meets the requirements. 

In either case, part of an oil's development involves sending the finished product to a lab to have all of that testing performed. Even manufacturer-specific tests are standardized and can be performed by other labs, which is how AMSOIL knows how well their oil performs in GM's dexos1 gen2 LSPI testing. While the manufacturer might develop a particular test, the oil isn't sent to that manufacturer's lab for testing; rather the oil is tested and the results are sent in for approval. 

Also keep in mind that these approvals are only valid for a certain amount of time, after which the manufacturer must spend the money to get the oil tested and certified again. For oils that do not have any formulation changes in that time period, this is an unnecessary expense. This recurring cost (which I believe for dexos1 is every 2 years), ends up being a substantial overhead cost for smaller oil makers/blenders that would drive up the cost to the consumer. All of these standardized tests cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to have performed by an independent lab. Avoiding this process on oils that don't even need to be bothered with *minimum performance specifications *allows you to get more value for your money. 

Excerpt from MB's specifications page:



> MB requires that any claims for oil performance to meet the mentioned MB specifications must be based on credible data and controlled tests in accredited test laboratories. All engine performance testing used to support a claim of compliance with these MB oil specifications must be generated according to the MB Read Across Guidelines and the European Engine Lubricants Quality Management System (EELQMS). MB Approval for each new oil formulation is valid 5 years.


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## Iamantman (Sep 24, 2018)

SClapsaddle said:


> I change mine at 50% oil life, the oil is dirty at that point, I don't trust it to get any dirtier especially with the turbo...


Same. I checked mine at that point and it was visibly dirty and smelled like used oil. Seemed foolish to drive it that way for another couple thousand miles..


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Used to be a time when some oils didn't get dirty. One could drive 3,000 miles and the oil was still fresh. I won't name brands. 

It was taught that those oils aren't cleaning the engine. 

An oil that cleans the engine will be a dirty oil. 

My brand I've used all my life. Not only does it get dirty. But pushing it to the 7500 mile mark. I'm gonna pass. 

My fuel economy averages 36 during the first 4,000 miles. Drops to 32 at the 4k mark. Drops to 29 before I get to the 5k mark. 5k is my limit. Economy will come back up some if I were to do all highway driving. But I don't see much highway. I also don't like HC and CO building up in my oil. I don't know what the rate is yet with this new Direct Injection engine and synthetic oil. Haven't had the filter tested yet. Back in the day when i lived the profession. 3,000 miles on an oil filter would max out the machine. 

I'm trying out a different brand now. See how it does and performs.

So far my limit is 5k miles. Seems pointless to keep going if it's going to start costing me more money in gas. 

BTW. Walmart has the cheapest prices on oil. About $3 cheaper by the court. About $4.00 cheaper per court if bought in the gallon jug. For the only brand I buy. I won't swear for the other brands as I don't shop them but seemed like they were much cheaper also. Over auto store prices.


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## Farmerboy (Sep 2, 2012)

Just changed oil in my ‘17 Hatch. Here is Uoa. 10W30 SS Amsoil at 15,100 mi. Tbn is still over a 2. On my ‘12 Eco it would hit a 1.5 at around 13,000 mi.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

i just changed my oil with torco sx8 5w30 for the first time saturday will be seeing how the car run and hows my mileage is got 85k miles on my cruze now so maybe itll be worth it


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