# Best Oil to Use?



## TFroehlichIII (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello Everyone,
I was wondering what oil everyone is using in their Cruze's that is obviously Dexos Approved. In my last Cruze I was running Valvoline SynPower (full synthetic) for the first 40,000 miles and then right before I totaled it I switched over to Ams Oil. I know that these oils are really good oils, I was just wondering what everyone else was using and if they had any comments on them. 

I have about 2,000 miles on my new car and I want to pick an oil that I will stick with throughout the life of the car, and not switch back and forth. 

What are your thoughts?


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. Hoping AMSOIL gets a 5W30 (Dexos 2) into production soon.


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## TFroehlichIII (Mar 15, 2013)

plasticplant said:


> Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. Hoping AMSOIL gets a 5W30 (Dexos 2) into production soon.


Why do you say Mobil 1? And Yes, I think AMSOIL will be doing that soon for the Diesels. I would be very surprised if we didn't see that within the next 6 months.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I've switched to Pennzoil Ultra after reviewing quite a few used oil analyses on it and being impressed. For an off-the-shelf synthetic oil, it's one of the best you can get. I will run a 7500 mi OCI and then run a used oil analysis of my own and see what comes back - I have not yet seen one for a Cruze 1.4T.

If you want to run ~10-12K change intervals, Amsoil's signature series is probably best for that (with a filter change in between!). For shorter intervals that some owners insist on, I see it as a waste of money.


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## Rich+Cruze! (Apr 8, 2014)

Mobile1. I was told by someone at GM Powertrain that the 1.4t will run forever as long as you keep proper synthetic fresh in the engine, and there really isn't any reason to go beyond MobileOne.


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

Pennzoil Ultra for the same reasons jblackburn said... 

I've run Mobil 1 forever until reading several performance reports a few months ago that made me switch.


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

TFroehlichIII said:


> Why do you say Mobil 1? And Yes, I think AMSOIL will be doing that soon for the Diesels. I would be very surprised if we didn't see that within the next 6 months.


I run it because of all the oil threads I've read here. Even Xtreme has said great things about Mobil 1 ESP and he's an AMSOIL vendor. ESP seems like one of the best oils you can use for the CTD.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> I've switched to Pennzoil Ultra after reviewing quite a few used oil analyses on it and being impressed.



I sent this oil in for analysis on my previous car, WAY WAY better than mobil 1. Heck my car also stopped using so much **** oil.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> I've switched to Pennzoil Ultra after reviewing quite a few used oil analyses on it and being impressed. For an off-the-shelf synthetic oil, it's one of the best you can get. I will run a 7500 mi OCI and then run a used oil analysis of my own and see what comes back - I have not yet seen one for a Cruze 1.4T.
> 
> If you want to run ~10-12K change intervals, Amsoil's signature series is probably best for that (with a filter change in between!). For shorter intervals that some owners insist on, I see it as a waste of money.


Pennzoil Ultra is hard to compete with. It won't have the same mileage and corrosion protection as AMSOIL SS but it does have a better volatility than AMSOIL OE or XL, which to me is more important in a turbo car, especially one with piston cooling jets.



Rich+Cruze! said:


> Mobile1. I was told by someone at GM Powertrain that the 1.4t will run forever as long as you keep proper synthetic fresh in the engine, and there really isn't any reason to go beyond MobileOne.


Ever since the market shift to group 3 base stocks and blends, Mobil 1 has lost its place on the podium. They are now merely mediocre, and the addition of mg-based dispersants to artificially increase TBN and cause a slower TBN decay is also less effective at neutralizing acidity. For the price, AMSOIL OE is a much better value with more anti-wear additives and exclusively Ca-based detergents. I have many options by many brands in my tiered oils list.

Dexos1 isn't a required certification. You can use AMSOIL, which is not certified (re: they didn't pay the royalties and certification fee) yet far exceeds the requirements. 

As for what is the best oil for the Cruze, I am currently investigating that further but AMSOIL Signature Series 10W-30 (in climates no colder than -20F) takes top spot for now. My next oil change is likely to use either a 5W-40 AMSOIL API CJ-4 diesel oil, which is API certified for gasoline engine use and has an incredibly robust additive package and shear stability, their tried and true 10W-40 premium protection gas/diesel oil, which is one of their 12 TBN oils, or the Series 3000 5W-30 diesel oil, which is a tad thicker than their signature series 5W-30. This new research I'm engaging in is due to numerous reports of spiritedly-driven Cruzes suffering from significant fuel dilution issues. I have a few other oils on the radar that I may try as well. 

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## 14cruze1.4 (Oct 7, 2013)

I have started running schaffers supreme 9000D in my cruze. Noticed a big improvement of the turbo spooling up quicker. and is fairly cheap when purchased in bulk(5 gallon pail) I think it came up to 30 bucks for the oil and a wix filter


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Dexos1 isn't a required certification. You can use AMSOIL, which is not certified (re: they didn't pay the royalties and certification fee) yet far exceeds the requirements.


Owners manual clearly says that dexos is required, if you have a major failure GM certainly could deny the work based on that alone. I would stick with deoxs approved oils until the warranty is out even if another oil is superior and shouldn't cause any issues. 

Amsoil or anyone else not wanting to pay for the dexos license scam isn't a good idea, every model year they are missing out on millions more in potential sales.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Owners manual clearly says that dexos is required, if you have a major failure GM certainly could deny the work based on that alone. I would stick with deoxs approved oils until the warranty is out even if another oil is superior and shouldn't cause any issues.
> 
> Amsoil or anyone else not wanting to pay for the dexos license scam isn't a good idea, every model year they are missing out on millions more in potential sales.


Owner's manual is not legally binding and does not trump Magnuson-Moss. Your dealer attempting to void your warranty on behalf of your use of a non-Dexos1 certified oil (e.g. Pennzoil Ultra) will have a fun day in court and a lesson in consumer protection laws. A Dexos1 certification is not required. An oil that meets or exceeds that specification is required. The statement was made to keep people from filling up this motor with a cheap dino oil.

For a non-OE oil to be validly used against you, the dealer has to prove that the oil is out of spec, which means they need to send it in for analysis, and then prove that the oil caused the failure. 

I don't know how other oil manufacturers handle those claims, but AMSOIL's guarantees and warranty covering your engine with the use of their fluids under their product guide are legal binding in the USA and Canada. 

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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

The problem is GM can certainly deny a warranty claim based on not following the owners manual. Sure one could take GM to court(and win) over not using the dexos approved oil, however why would anyone want to risk having to do any of that just to use an oil that is probably only marginally better than some of the dexos approved ones? 

Go ahead and do whatever you like, but its seems like really bad advice to tell people its ok everything will be just fine when in reality not following the recommendations will just be a giant headache if something happens.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

spacedout said:


> The problem is GM can certainly deny a warranty claim based on not following the owners manual. Sure one could take GM to court(and win) over not using the dexos approved oil, however why would anyone want to risk having to do any of that just to use an oil that is probably only marginally better than some of the dexos approved ones?
> 
> Go ahead and do whatever you like, but its seems like really bad advice to tell people its ok everything will be just fine when in reality not following the recommendations will just be a giant headache if something happens.


Pennzoil Ultra isn't Dexos-1 listed either (Platinum is). If an oil meets or* exceeds *Dexos-1 specs, they can't deny the warranty claim.


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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> For a non-OE oil to be validly used against you, the dealer has to prove that the oil is out of spec, which means they need to send it in for analysis, and then prove that the oil caused the failure.


Dealer/field rep is going to want to see oil receipts. Mazda did after I spun a bearing at 58k. At least AMSOIL covers the motor if GM won't.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

spacedout said:


> The problem is GM can certainly deny a warranty claim based on not following the owners manual. Sure one could take GM to court(and win) over not using the dexos approved oil, however why would anyone want to risk having to do any of that just to use an oil that is probably only marginally better than some of the dexos approved ones?
> 
> Go ahead and do whatever you like, but its seems like really bad advice to tell people its ok everything will be just fine when in reality not following the recommendations will just be a giant headache if something happens.


As Justin pointed out, the oil has to meet or exceed the dexos1 specification. It does not have to be dexos1 certified. Manual specifically states: "Use only engine oil licensed to the dexos1 specification, or equivalent, of the proper SAE viscosity grade."

The key words there are "or equivalent." Page 11-12 in the owner's manual for 2013.

Those words alone are what are saving GM from a lawsuit on the basis of Magnuson Moss.

As for the degree to which the oil is better, well, that's a topic for a whole new thread. I can guarantee you that both Pennzoil Ultra and AMSOIL Signature Series oils are miles ahead of other group 3-based synthetic oils.

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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

I was using Mobil 1 in my Wife's Cruze, and mine. Then I used Mobil 1 EP for one oil change before reading about how good Pennzoil Ultra is and switching to that.

Sent from my Droid Ultra


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Last time I looked at my bottles of Ultra they had the Dexos logo on them.

Sent from my Droid Ultra


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Daryl said:


> Last time I looked at my bottles of Ultra they had the Dexos logo on them.
> 
> Sent from my Droid Ultra


Mine didn't - don't know if it was older stock or what. It's only been 2-3 months since I bought it.

Interestingly enough, looking at their website, it looks like Ultra has been replaced with "Ultra Platinum". That happened sometime very recently!

Motor Oil â€“ Pennzoil

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_GTDS_Pennzoil_Ultra_Platinum_5W-30_(SN_GF-5)_(en)_TDS.pdf

Hmm...


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

That's what I have on the shelf now the Ultra Platinum.

Sent from my Droid Ultra


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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Interestingly enough, looking at their website, it looks like Ultra has been replaced with "Ultra Platinum". That happened sometime very recently!
> 
> Motor Oil â€“ Pennzoil
> 
> http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_GTDS_Pennzoil_Ultra_Platinum_5W-30_(SN_GF-5)_(en)_TDS.pdf


And would you look at that, under Specifications... dexos1


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

You in charge of earl now j ? That's nice ! I still want 10 cents from everybody .


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> As Justin pointed out, the oil has to meet or exceed the dexos1 specification. It does not have to be dexos1 certified. Manual specifically states: "Use only engine oil licensed to the dexos1 specification, or equivalent, of the proper SAE viscosity grade."
> 
> The key words there are "or equivalent." Page 11-12 in the owner's manual for 2013.
> 
> ...


The problem is you can't just say something is equivalent but without the actual dexos label GM can claim its not. I never questioned the quality of any oil, just the advice being given out here. All I wanted to point out is if it does not have the dexos label you might run into more headache than necessary if you have any problems. 

I for one think the whole Dexos license is a BS money grab on GMs part and nothing to do with oil quality at all. That does not mean I would advise anyone to use any non-dexos oil & I certainly run dexos oil everytime.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

jandree22 said:


> And would you look at that, under Specifications... dexos1


Hmm...

All other specs (on the spec sheet anyway) look very similar to the old Pennzoil Ultra.

But that NOACK Volatility has gone up from 6.4% to 11.5%. Lame.
_*(Of course there were speculations in the first place that the old PU overstated its NOACK levels in the first place)._


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

spacedout said:


> The problem is you can't just say something is equivalent but without the actual dexos label GM can claim its not. I never questioned the quality of any oil, just the advice being given out here. All I wanted to point out is if it does not have the dexos label you might run into more headache than necessary if you have any problems.
> 
> I for one think the whole Dexos license is a BS money grab on GMs part and nothing to do with oil quality at all. That does not mean I would advise anyone to use any non-dexos oil & I certainly run dexos oil everytime.


For the time being, the only company that is noteworthy that doesn't have the Dexos1 label for their synthetic oil is AMSOIL, and they have their own warranty guarantee as well as being the leader in the synthetic oil market in the US for 40 years. In that context, my philosophy is that the dealer doesn't have to know what's in my car. The likelihood of an oil-related failure is so insignificant with any oil that it isn't even worth discussing. The issues you get into with improper oils is things like excessive sludging and the resulting oil starvation from using a dino oil or forgetting to change your oil for way past the OLM interval. 

A dealer cannot test the oil and come back and say "this wasn't dexos1 certified." The only instance I have ever heard of where an oil was blamed on the failure of a component was from Smorey, who got in a Cruze full of Royal Purple in a problematic transmission, so he sent the oil out for analysis per his service manager and it came back out of spec. That warranty claim was denied, but for engine oils, I've never seen a catastrophic lubrication related failure that wasn't blamed on owner negligence.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Hmm...
> 
> All other specs (on the spec sheet anyway) look very similar to the old Pennzoil Ultra.
> 
> But that NOACK Volatility has gone up from 6.4% to 11.5%. Lame.


Looks like I need to boot that oil from the top of the tiered list. More companies selling out to group 3 base stocks. SMH.

As a side note, I am happy to see companies participating in the NOACK volatility test.

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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Looks like I need to boot that oil from the top of the tiered list. More companies selling out to group 3 base stocks. SMH.
> 
> As a side note, I am happy to see companies participating in the NOACK volatility test.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


OTOH, the 10w-30 is 5.7%, which is quite low. My car seems to be doing fine on cold starts with the older formula (I am running 10W-30), so I may continue on to the new one with the same viscosity.

Heck, the pour point is a 3 degree difference (-48 vs -45) and everything else is nearly identical.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> OTOH, the 10w-30 is 5.7%, which is quite low. My car seems to be doing fine on cold starts with the older formula, so I may continue on to the new one with the same viscosity.
> 
> Heck, the pour point is a 3 degree difference (-48 vs -45) and everything else is nearly identical.


Smaller viscosity ranges require fewer viscosity modifiers and result in a much lower volatility. Since the difference is practically negligible till you get to -20C, I often recommend 10W-30 synthetics instead. However, that is on a case by case basis. 

The increased NOACK of 11.5% really bothers me. That is pretty severe. Even the new Pennzoil Platinum PurePlus is better at 10.3%.

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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

Just checked out QSUD 5w-30 and looks like it specs out at NOACK of 12.3%.

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140003587117_201007020129.pdf


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

For those of you wondering what we're on about, a low NOACK value means that less oil vaporizes at high temp. An oil with a low NOACK value will help reduce crud on intake valves and in the PCV system...possibly the throttle body and intake manifold as well. It's typically the additives that vaporize off, also leaving you with an oil that does its job less well as the miles on that oil change interval accumulate.

Since the Cruze isn't direct-injected, I expect the valves to be fine (they are washed down with gasoline), but small-ish PCV hoses are something that typically clogs with age. EGR is handled by the cam timing, so that's one less thing to worry about clogging as well.

Below 8-9% is good (for a Group III oil), and lower even better.


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> Hmm...
> 
> All other specs (on the spec sheet anyway) look very similar to the old Pennzoil Ultra.
> 
> ...



Ugh really. I wonder if I should return mine now. I change it at no more than 5,000 miles anyhow so I wonder if it's even that big of a deal for me?

Sent from my Droid Ultra


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jandree22 said:


> Just checked out QSUD 5w-30 and looks like it specs out at NOACK of 12.3%.
> 
> http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140003587117_201007020129.pdf


Incredible. Wow. A jump from 8.8% is huge.



Daryl said:


> Ugh really. I wonder if I should return mine now. I change it at no more than 5,000 miles anyhow so I wonder if it's even that big of a deal for me?
> 
> Sent from my Droid Ultra


Run it for 5k and get something else next time around.

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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

LOL, my Cruze should have blown up by now running exclusively Grp. III based synthetics at 7500-8000 mile intervals (with mostly highway driving) the way some of you all are talking. 83k miles, 80k of those tuned, and it's humming along nicely. 

We can debate about what's "best" all day long. For my money, a "good enough" Grp. III based 5w-30 synthetic changed at a reasonable interval will see my engine to the wreckers still purring while the body of the car is shot through with rust in 10-12 years.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

sciphi said:


> LOL, my Cruze should have blown up by now running exclusively Grp. III based synthetics at 7500-8000 mile intervals (with mostly highway driving) the way some of you all are talking. 83k miles, 80k of those tuned, and it's humming along nicely.
> 
> We can debate about what's "best" all day long. For my money, a "good enough" Grp. III based 5w-30 synthetic changed at a reasonable interval will see my engine to the wreckers still purring while the body of the car is shot through with rust in 10-12 years.


I completely agree. I would expect your car to make it past 200+K with no lubrication-related failures. It's actually quite rare to see lubrication-related failures with most well-designed engines and just about any good, commonly-sold Grp III oil today.

That courier on the site here has over 200K on his Cruze and I think used GM Dexos-1 for a long while before switching over to Mobil-1.

Every Cruze I've seen with the valve cover open with regular OCI's has been spotless inside, which usually speaks well for the rest of the motor.

The new PU 5W-30, despite that disappointing increase in NOACK, will fit into that category of "gets the job done well enough" to keep using it. I think I'll stick with the 10W-30 for my purposes.


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Incredible. Wow. A jump from 8.8% is huge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have plain old Platinum in the car now. Think I should just stick with it?

Sent from my Droid Ultra


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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

Daryl said:


> I have plain old Platinum in the car now. Think I should just stick with it?


It's what I'm going with. Easy to find, cheap, dexos1, and generally good UOAs from every report I've seen.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

sciphi said:


> LOL, my Cruze should have blown up by now running exclusively Grp. III based synthetics at 7500-8000 mile intervals (with mostly highway driving) the way some of you all are talking. 83k miles, 80k of those tuned, and it's humming along nicely.
> 
> We can debate about what's "best" all day long. For my money, a "good enough" Grp. III based 5w-30 synthetic changed at a reasonable interval will see my engine to the wreckers still purring while the body of the car is shot through with rust in 10-12 years.


We get into this point many times. My rebuttal is exactly the same each time. For some reason, engine oil is an area where people are content with "good enough." We want the best tires, the best wipers, the best fuel, the best tunes, the best washes and waxes, yet we settle for the "good enough" oils because they simply work.

I'm not telling you to go out and buy an expensive oil, but if the data shows Pennzoil-based oils just got worse and you can get something else for the same price if not cheaper and for the same if not more convenience, then why are we stuck on an oil simply because it is "good enough?"

The idea behind my tiered oils list is to help you get the best bang for the buck. If the value is higher elsewhere, logic would dictate that you would purchase the higher value product, and that includes the value of time.

Oh and before I forget. I just got a UOA from a forum member using Pennzoil Platinum on a 8150 mile run with the TBN flagged at 1.7. Not quite good enough.

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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

jandree22 said:


> It's what I'm going with. Easy to find, cheap, dexos1, and generally good UOAs from every report I've seen.


I believe that's what I'll stay with for now. I'll return the two jugs of PPU since I just bought them.

Sent from my Droid Ultra


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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Oh and before I forget. I just got a UOA from a forum member using Pennzoil Platinum on a 8150 mile run with the TBN flagged at 1.7. Not quite good enough.


Not quite good enough... _for an 8150 run_. Did they say where the OLM was reading at? My factory fill is currently at 38% around 4700 mi (though that _is _winter city driving). Going in for my first change tomorrow, actually.

I wouldn't dream of running our CRV past 7500 oci, let alone a turbo motor with all the extra demand. Maybe that makes me wasteful and old fashioned... it's just not my style.


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## Vetterin (Mar 27, 2011)

Going on 57,000 miles with 10 oil changes on nothing but QS Ultimate.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jandree22 said:


> It's what I'm going with. Easy to find, cheap, dexos1, and generally good UOAs from every report I've seen.


I'll post the UOA I just got in an email when I get home. TBN dropped to 1.7 after 8150 miles.

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## nobog (Oct 25, 2011)

Question: what oil do they use if you take your Cruze to qwicky lube inc? Do they even know to put in 4.25 qts? Most here are DIY'ers and very knowledgable about their car but I wonder how many Cruzes are driving around with 5 qts of 10w-40 non-syn oil?

JK


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

nobog said:


> Question: what oil do they use if you take your Cruze to qwicky lube inc? Do they even know to put in 4.25 qts? Most here are DIY'ers and very knowledgable about their car but I wonder how many Cruzes are driving around with 5 qts of 10w-40 non-syn oil?
> 
> JK


When I asked what fluid they use for automatic they said red. I tried to get something like Merc V, ATF 4 ATF-HP, they said compatible and also used for power steering fluid. I know ATF can be used as power steering fluid but ****, what is going to be put into my car?



spacedout said:


> The problem is you can't just say something is equivalent but without the actual dexos label GM can claim its not. I never questioned the quality of any oil, just the advice being given out here. All I wanted to point out is if it does not have the dexos label you might run into more headache than necessary if you have any problems.
> 
> I for one think the whole Dexos license is a BS money grab on GMs part and nothing to do with oil quality at all. That does not mean I would advise anyone to use any non-dexos oil & I certainly run dexos oil everytime.


LOL I don't care anymore as I'm not going to exceed the normal OCI. I had M1 Ep with Dexos label and that was deemed crap, I swapped to PU with same Dexos label and now that's crap too.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> We get into this point many times. My rebuttal is exactly the same each time. For some reason, engine oil is an area where people are content with "good enough." We want the best tires, the best wipers, the best fuel, the best tunes, the best washes and waxes, yet we settle for the "good enough" oils because they simply work.
> 
> I'm not telling you to go out and buy an expensive oil, but if the data shows Pennzoil-based oils just got worse and you can get something else for the same price if not cheaper and for the same if not more convenience, then why are we stuck on an oil simply because it is "good enough?"
> 
> ...


That's my point. A Grp. III based oil "simply works" for 7500-8000 mile oil changes. Since that's about when UOA's (including mine) have indicated those oils should be changed. 

At $20-30 per oil change including filter for a DIY'er, the monetary outlay isn't a whole lot for something that most folks do 2-3 times per year. For folks who drive a lot more than 24k miles a year, yeah, downtime is pricier than the cost of oil that can go for longer than 7500 miles. The value is there in that case. For me at this moment, my driving style, schedule, and annual mileage, I spend 30 minutes every 4 months or so changing oil. Not a big deal to me right now. Now when my schedule changes to have less time to do things like change oil, yes, a longer oil change interval will be desirable. 

Long story short: The value proposition for extended drains works for some folks, and isn't worth it for others.


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## MAJOR_SPANKY (Jan 17, 2014)

So, exactly what is so back about the oil the dealers use? I am an Amsoil fan and use it and have used it in every other vehicle I've had. Ive even converted my racing buddies drag cars *doubt they will warranty a bottle fed 632cid Chevy* I have the 2yr service agreement so my plan has been using my free oil changes lol.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

MAJOR_SPANKY said:


> So, exactly what is so back about the oil the dealers use? I am an Amsoil fan and use it and have used it in every other vehicle I've had. Ive even converted my racing buddies drag cars *doubt they will warranty a bottle fed 632cid Chevy* I have the 2yr service agreement so my plan has been using my free oil changes lol.


Semi Syn is good for the normal OCI where as full syn can get you a longer change interval (0% OLM readings).


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## MAJOR_SPANKY (Jan 17, 2014)

Dealer oil it is then... don't get me wrong I like this little car but I'm gonna trade it off once warranty is gone. Plus it doesn't have a $3500 engine that I built so I think for my use dealer changes will be fine. 

Maybe I won't get struck by lightning for saying this but there's a chance it may get traded for a 2015 Mustang with the new 2.3 t/c coming out. Having owned a '88 Thunderchickin with the 2.3 t/c I am fond of that setup. That car was a blast to drive.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

sciphi said:


> That's my point. A Grp. III based oil "simply works" for 7500-8000 mile oil changes. Since that's about when UOA's (including mine) have indicated those oils should be changed.
> 
> At $20-30 per oil change including filter for a DIY'er, the monetary outlay isn't a whole lot for something that most folks do 2-3 times per year. For folks who drive a lot more than 24k miles a year, yeah, downtime is pricier than the cost of oil that can go for longer than 7500 miles. The value is there in that case. For me at this moment, my driving style, schedule, and annual mileage, I spend 30 minutes every 4 months or so changing oil. Not a big deal to me right now. Now when my schedule changes to have less time to do things like change oil, yes, a longer oil change interval will be desirable.
> 
> Long story short: The value proposition for extended drains works for some folks, and isn't worth it for others.


You need to be aware of changes in oil formulation, for better or worse. If the oil you are using now has changed in formula, your old UOAs fly out the window. Volatility affects more than just your volume of oil. 

I feel that you took my response as a loaded sales pitch for AMSOIL. That was not the intention at all, nor was I even thinking about extended drains. Allow me to clarify myself. If you were using QSUD before and you were able to get your respective oil drain intervals, and now they increased NOACK volatility from 8.8% to 12.3% (which is insane), the value of QSUD has now dropped. For $20-$30, there are now better options for you. Those options include any of the Tier 2 and Tier 3 oils, all of which are suitable for those same drain intervals. 

As I have noted on this forum previously, my intention is to provide people with the information to make the best purchasing decisions possible. Previously, that included recommending Pennzoil Ultra, but I can no longer do so due to the increase in volatility. The availability of options in the primarily group 3 (I understand that some are group 3 blends with SOME PAO or SOME Ester) based oils is such that there is no cost to convenience in switching what you have been using to get the best value for your car, time or monetary. 



MAJOR_SPANKY said:


> So, exactly what is so back about the oil the dealers use? I am an Amsoil fan and use it and have used it in every other vehicle I've had. Ive even converted my racing buddies drag cars *doubt they will warranty a bottle fed 632cid Chevy* I have the 2yr service agreement so my plan has been using my free oil changes lol.


The dealer uses a synthetic blend oil that I would personally not recommend beyond a 5,000 mile OCI. 6,500 miles under light driving is as good as I've seen as an acceptable UOA. It contains decent levels of Molybdenum and Boron. If it wasn't for the stupid high volatility, I would be recommending it as the additive package is fairly decent. 



Merc6 said:


> Semi Syn is good for the normal OCI where as full syn can get you a longer change interval (0% OLM readings).


For the record, I do not trust the semi syn to go the full length of the oil life monitor. That is a 6500 mile oil tops in the 1.4T, no matter what conditions you are driving under. I have yet to see a UOA that indicates otherwise. A full syn will only get you down to a 0% OLM reading in 2013+ vehicles. 2011 and 2012 had a different OLM calibration that would actually take you to 10k miles under normal driving conditions, which I wouldn't trust every full synthetic oil to do.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Once new evidence rolls in that I'm incorrect, I'll change my tune. Based on current evidence, an off-the-shelf Grp III oil in this car, even with a 10-12% volatility, can go 7500 miles before needing to be changed. 

Best evidence I found so far was that QSUD's volatility was 10-12%. That's still below GF-5, API SN, and dexos1's specifications. It feels like we're arguing over differences measured with calipers, and who's doing the absolute best when good enough really is good enough.

Lest we lose sight of the big picture, we're all regularly changing our oil ahead of schedule with fairly decent oils. That's still way better than the typical car owner who waits until the light goes on to get the oil changed with the bulk slop available at Jiffy Lube. Or the millions of other 1.4T Cruze owners out there who aren't on CT doing the exact same thing. 

And, living in the Northeast, my Cruze is likely to succumb to rust long before the engine will wear out.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

sciphi said:


> Once new evidence rolls in that I'm incorrect, I'll change my tune. Based on current evidence, an off-the-shelf Grp III oil in this car, even with a 10-12% volatility, can go 7500 miles before needing to be changed.
> 
> Best evidence I found so far was that QSUD's volatility was 10-12%. That's still below GF-5, API SN, and dexos1's specifications. It feels like we're arguing over differences measured with calipers, and who's doing the absolute best when good enough really is good enough.
> 
> ...


The volatility of 12.3% came directly from Shell's own tech document. No debate there on what it actually is. It was posted earlier in this thread IIRC.

The difference is certainly not minor. Going from 8.8% to 12.3% is not something you can write off as insignificant. 

7500 miles is the absolute maximum of what a recent member should have gone on his Pennzoil Platinum. He went 8150 and had a TBN of 1.7. When your TBN drops to 1/3 of original, you should flag it as getting low. When it drops to 1/4, you had better change it. The original TBN in that was 9.0. Do the math. That oil was shot. 100k miles of those conditions with those oils and those drain intervals would have resulted in accelerated bearing corrosion. 

I'm not really concerned with what other owners do. Other owners think cars become unreliable after 100k miles, and GM's liability is dissolved at that point anyway. 

Two things cause my stress of high TBN and low volatility oils. 

1. Piston cooling jets that heat oil.
2. Small, sleeve bearing turbo that works at high loads under normal driving conditions.

That's why volatility and TBN are a big deal. I'm not going to start fear mongering people without factual evidence, but I'm not looking forward to replacing a $700 turbo at any point during my ownership of this car and the $10 extra I spend every oil change will ensure that I can put off that repair as long as possible if not permanently.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

So I guess I'm a little confused. All three grades of Amsoil (OE, XL, SS) *do* show as GM dexos1 on their product pages... I guess for some reason I thought they weren't?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jandree22 said:


> So I guess I'm a little confused. All three grades of Amsoil (OE, XL, SS) *do* show as GM dexos1 on their product pages... I guess for some reason I thought they weren't?


They are listed as meeting and exceeding the requirements for dexos1, but they did not actually participate in the certification. That is, they don't pay the royalties per gallon or the cost to certify.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> For the record, I do not trust the semi syn to go the full length of the oil life monitor. That is a 6500 mile oil tops in the 1.4T, no matter what conditions you are driving under. I have yet to see a UOA that indicates otherwise. A full syn will only get you down to a 0% OLM reading in 2013+ vehicles. 2011 and 2012 had a different OLM calibration that would actually take you to 10k miles under normal driving conditions, which I wouldn't trust every full synthetic oil to do.


Yeah I was saying 0% on full syn but on a 13 and beyond. I barely trust semisynthetic to 6k the way I drive. If I autocrossed or dragged the car for 2 days the oil got changed. 



Sent from my iFail 5s


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## corvairbob (Dec 17, 2012)

ok my car is gone and i want to get oil for a change the second change but i need to find out what weight 0w0 0w05 0w10 5w5 5w15 ? i know dexos but forgot the weight. thanks


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

corvairbob said:


> ok my car is gone and i want to get oil for a change the second change but i need to find out what weight 0w0 0w05 0w10 5w5 5w15 ? i know dexos but forgot the weight. thanks


5w30


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## iggy (Feb 14, 2013)

Ok, GM calls for a Dexos1 oil and there are semi synthetic oils that meet this spec. My understanding is that the car's oil change countdown thing, will typically tell a person to change after about 7500 miles, which is more or less what US auto makers have been telling drivers as a change interval for many many years. 

As near as I know, there are VERY VERY few engine failures that can be directly attributed poor lubrication, when the owner changes their oil based on the manufactures recommendations. That is, if you use oil that meets the specs of the auto maker, and you change your oil at least every 7500 miles, then you have virtually no chance of having a oil related failure. 

My dad always told me to change my oil every 5000 miles, because it's easy to remember when you need to do it, you just look at your odometer, when it hits some multiple of 5000, it's time for a oil change. I still tend to think this way... but I also have come to believe that the Cruze's built in oil monitor thing, is a reliable method.

You won't see me buying $8+ per quart oil. I just bought three packages ( 6 quarts each package ) of Mobile1 from Costco for $25.50 per package , or $4.25/quart. They have a limit of 3 instant rebates per customer, so that's why I bought three.

Fear mongering, or whatever... This isn't a rocketship, it's not even a aeroplane. it's a car. Change your oil regularly, and chances are very very good, that you will not have any problems with your engine due to lubrication, even with the cheapest of manufacture approved oils. This isn't rocket science people.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

iggy said:


> Ok, GM calls for a Dexos1 oil and there are semi synthetic oils that meet this spec. My understanding is that the car's oil change countdown thing, will typically tell a person to change after about 7500 miles, which is more or less what US auto makers have been telling drivers as a change interval for many many years.
> 
> As near as I know, there are VERY VERY few engine failures that can be directly attributed poor lubrication, when the owner changes their oil based on the manufactures recommendations. That is, if you use oil that meets the specs of the auto maker, and you change your oil at least every 7500 miles, then you have virtually no chance of having a oil related failure.
> 
> ...


7500 miles is beyond what the OE oil is capable of. As for other types of oils, well, we can have that discussion if you'd like. Oil does more than just lubricate. 

Also, it's a turbo car. With high dynamic compression and piston cooling jets that raise oil to unusually high temperatures. And high shear loads. Oil analysis has shown the engine is particularly hard on oil. 

GM also thought their oil life monitor was reliable in 2011 and 2012. Why is it then that they re-calibrated it to have people change oil 2000-3000 miles sooner in the 2013+ models?

There are very few *catastrophic* engine failures due to engine oil. However, given the right amount of shearing, oxidation, and acidity, you could lose a turbo as often as...well...Mazda3 and Subaru WRX guys do. 

GM calls it semi-synthetic when in reality it's a group 2/3 petroleum blend. There is no true synthetic base stock in it. Will probably do fine in 5k mile intervals for most people. I'd rather change mine at 15k though.


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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

Agreed. GM Synth-Blend Dexos1 is garbage... I'm only running it because it's free for my first 4. Do *not *take this stuff down to 0% on the OLM, or much past 5k mi.

Pennzoil Platinum/Mobil1/Quaker State Ultimate Durability you'll find at Wally World for $25/5qt is a step up for 7.5k mi or reaching 0% on the OLM. While other turbo cars like WRXs tear up Mobil1, it seems to do okay in this motor for some reason.

I've never used Amsoil Signature, but from my research is indeed good stuff. Worth it if you do want to extend your intervals in tandem with UOA reports.

Here are a few UOA to get started with - http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-1-4l-turbo/79866-1-4t-used-oil-analysis-thread.html


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jandree22 said:


> Agreed. GM Synth-Blend Dexos1 is garbage... I'm only running it because it's free for my first 4. Do *not *take this stuff down to 0% on the OLM, or much past 5k mi.
> 
> Pennzoil Platinum/Mobil1/Quaker State Ultimate Durability you'll find at Wally World for $25/5qt is a step up for 7.5k mi or reaching 0% on the OLM. While other turbo cars like WRXs tear up Mobil1, it seems to do okay in this motor for some reason.
> 
> ...


Just remember that there's more to true synthetics (not Mobil 1/Pennzoil/QSUD) than just drain intervals. Oil does a lot more than just lubricate. Big Oil would love for people to believe there's no difference since they switched over, but there is, and you can't put a price on quality.


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## jandree22 (Sep 19, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Just remember that there's more to true synthetics (not Mobil 1/Pennzoil/QSUD) than just drain intervals. Oil does a lot more than just lubricate. Big Oil would love for people to believe there's no difference since they switched over, but there is, and you can't put a price on quality.


Could you point me in the direction of some reading about this? I'm not opposed to a higher quality oil than Mobil or Pennzoil, just don't know what the further benefits are. Whether or not I keep the car past 100k, I'd like to treat it as if I will.

Funny... driving in this morning I was honestly just thinking, man this Synchromesh MTF is the bomb.


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