# Said Goodbye to my '14 CTD



## neile300c (Jul 8, 2014)

Congrats on the Volt purchase! Any pics??


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Volts look nice. But only 30 mi on an electric charge really doesnt make it even worth plugging in. Not when I'm regularly doing 200 mi trips.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Snipesy said:


> Volts look nice. But only 30 mi on an electric charge really doesnt make it even worth plugging in. Not when I'm regularly doing 200 mi trips.


the new volts are 50 miles now.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Congratulations. Good info

So don’t leave us hangin.......what’s the difference between a ‘normal’ VOLT and a TZEV-equipped one?


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

oilburner said:


> the new volts are 50 miles now.


So better, but sadly not enough.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

Snipesy said:


> Volts look nice. But only 30 mi on an electric charge really doesnt make it even worth plugging in. Not when I'm regularly doing 200 mi trips.


I've had my Volt since May, 2013 and have put just shy of 170,000 miles on it so far. My lifetime average mpg is 56.5, and going up again now that it's summer. My Volt was only rated at 38 miles of range, but I regularly get anywhere between 45 and 60 miles on full electric in the warmer months when temps are above 60-65 degrees. Even if you were only to get 35 miles though, it costs less than $1.00 to charge it, so that's about as far as a gallon of gas would get you, for 1/3 the cost. There have only been 2 warranty covered issues with anything on my Volt: 1st, the door unlock button on the central dash got stuck so doors wouldn't stay locked after exiting my car. 2nd was the drive motor coupler that GM felt was too noisy, so they repaired it under warranty as well ... no cost. Other than those two, the car has been awesome, and I just recently read a story about a GM employee that has 375k miles on his 2012 Volt, with no noticed changes in his battery's range, and not a single problem other than regular mnx fixes. I've been tempted to buy an '18 Cruze TD 6M Hatch ... but after reading that story, I may just stay payment free 12 months from now instead, and have a good beginner car for my daughter in 2 years.



Snipesy said:


> So better, but sadly not enough.


I'm not sure what you'd consider "enough" but your 200 mile trip would average out to be in excess of 85 mpg if you got 53 miles of electric and 147 on gas @ 45 mpg, which I'm sure is a far cry better than your CTD. If I had a new Volt, I could easily make 1/2 my daily commute (60 miles) on full electric because I know how to drive one for maximum efficiency and electric range. I'm not sure how far you need to drive, but even with simplistic math, we'll use the default 250 mpg on electric (although it would be in excess of 250 mpg) for 60 miles, and 45 mpg (which is what I normally get on gas) for the other 60 miles of my daily commute, and that averages out to be about 147 mpg, which is a lot better than the best I ever received in my '12 Eco 6MT (60.7 mpg for only 1/2 my commute, other 1/2 was 43 mpg). The Chevy Bolt on the other hand would be a great commuter car with a range of 238 electric miles, but not truly road-trip capable like a Volt with range extending engine, which is capable of a coast-to-coast drive without having to stop for charging.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

spaycace said:


> I've had my Volt since May, 2013 and have put just shy of 170,000 miles on it so far. My lifetime average mpg is 56.5, and going up again now that it's summer. My Volt was only rated at 38 miles of range, but I regularly get anywhere between 45 and 60 miles on full electric in the warmer months when temps are above 60-65 degrees. Even if you were only to get 35 miles though, it costs less than $1.00 to charge it, so that's about as far as a gallon of gas would get you, for 1/3 the cost. There have only been 2 warranty covered issues with anything on my Volt: 1st, the door unlock button on the central dash got stuck so doors wouldn't stay locked after exiting my car. 2nd was the drive motor coupler that GM felt was too noisy, so they repaired it under warranty as well ... no cost. Other than those two, the car has been awesome, and I just recently read a story about a GM employee that has 375k miles on his 2012 Volt, with no noticed changes in his battery's range, and not a single problem other than regular mnx fixes. I've been tempted to buy an '18 Cruze TD 6M Hatch ... but after reading that story, I may just stay payment free 12 months from now instead, and have a good beginner car for my daughter in 2 years.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you'd consider "enough" but your 200 mile trip would average out to be in excess of 85 mpg if you got 53 miles of electric and 147 on gas @ 45 mpg, which I'm sure is a far cry better than your CTD. If I had a new Volt, I could easily make 1/2 my daily commute (60 miles) on full electric because I know how to drive one for maximum efficiency and electric range. I'm not sure how far you need to drive, but even with simplistic math, we'll use the default 250 mpg on electric (although it would be in excess of 250 mpg) for 60 miles, and 45 mpg (which is what I normally get on gas) for the other 60 miles of my daily commute, and that averages out to be about 147 mpg, which is a lot better than the best I ever received in my '12 Eco 6MT (60.7 mpg for only 1/2 my commute, other 1/2 was 43 mpg). The Chevy Bolt on the other hand would be a great commuter car with a range of 238 electric miles, but not truly road-trip capable like a Volt with range extending engine, which is capable of a coast-to-coast drive without having to stop for charging.


I drove the 2014 volt for several weeks, and I even got to drive around one of the older Tesla models around.

They are all good, and the Volt is really the only hybrid vehicle on the market at the moment that's not a complete gimmick (like the prius) or ridiculously expensive.

But the issue still remains. I make lots of long trips. It can be days before I could get a volt plugged in. That will eat into the mpg alot. Trust me, I heavilly weighed trading in the diesel for the volt. And I'm still watching to see what GM can do with it.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Snipesy said:


> Volts look nice. But only 30 mi on an electric charge really doesnt make it even worth plugging in. Not when I'm regularly doing 200 mi trips.


I routinely pull 45-50 miles on a charge when it's below freezing and in the summer 60-65 miles on a charge. When I exceed the battery range I'm routinely getting 46 to 50 MPG on gas.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Rivergoer said:


> Congratulations. Good info
> 
> So don’t leave us hangin.......what’s the difference between a ‘normal’ VOLT and a TZEV-equipped one?


To be honest, I really don't know. The specs are identical. The only way to know is to look at one specific letter in the VIN code. The fifth character of the VIN has to be either a "C" or a "D" to indicate TZEV compliance. The "A" and "B" codes are not TZEV compliant.

My best guess comes from a description of what I read on PZEV (Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle) equipped Subarus a few years ago. PZEV equipped cars had a few very minor modifications that were relatively meaningless to the owner such as a larger cat with a finer mesh, injectors that closed tighter (this was on port injection systems where it was injected in to the intake manifold, the Gen 2 Volt is direct injected), better air filtration, and modifications to the ECM for cold starts.

As for a photo, it's not the best, but it's the only one I have at the moment - satin steel metallic.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

PanJet said:


> To be honest, I really don't know. The specs are identical.


I'm pretty sure there's something in the price tag as well. 

The extended warranty might be nothing more than a service plan built into the purchase price. That would certainly make a non-TZEV look more attractive if you weren't aware of the difference.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> I'm pretty sure there's something in the price tag as well.
> 
> The extended warranty might be nothing more than a service plan built into the purchase price. That would certainly make a non-TZEV look more attractive if you weren't aware of the difference.


If it is in the price, it's not in the MSRP. It shows up as a "NO CHARGE" option on the listing. The price of the ones selling here in Oregon are about the same as the ones in Washington.

GM gets credits for every ZEV (full electric) or TZEV (generally plug-in hybrids like the Volt) vehicle they sell in the states that have the program, which they can either use to sell more conventional vehicles or sell to other manufactures who don't have enough - in a sense it's kind of a cap and trade system. California has increasing credit requirements over the next ten years, so whatever the differences are, even if it's only an extended warranty, GM has incentive so offer it in the states that follow the program so as to get more credits.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

PanJet said:


> If it is in the price, it's not in the MSRP. It shows up as a "NO CHARGE" option on the listing. The price of the ones selling here in Oregon are about the same as the ones in Washington.


Unless some states only recognize one program and not the other, it doesn't make any sense that they'd have to two different programs.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> Unless some states only recognize one program and not the other, it doesn't make any sense that they'd have to two different programs.


I’m not sure what you mean by that. It’s one program. States either participate, or they don’t.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Yeah a Volt is pretty much a 30K+ car here new.

Incentives? Lol.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

PanJet said:


> I’m not sure what you mean by that. It’s one program. States either participate, or they don’t.


Then why the two different names? And why does GM have a different VIN code for them? There has to be a difference we're not aware of.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> Then why the two different names? And why does GM have a different VIN code for them? There has to be a difference we're not aware of.


By "two different names" I'm assuming maybe you're referring to my reference to the ZEV and TZEV. Those are actually just two different acronyms to describe the types of vehicles (either full-electric or plug-in hybrids) that are eligible for the program, but it's still just one program. Sorry for the confusion.

With regard to the differing VIN, I'm sure there is some sort of minor difference probably having to do with the emissions system, like I described earlier. Whatever it is, it does not affect performance at all, and it must be pretty minor, possibly having to do with the injectors, or cat, or something along those lines.

I'm guessing the only reason some Volts don't qualify is that whatever the difference, there's probably a small increase in cost for GM, so they only equip the cars that are going to be sold in states with the program. It's a bit odd, since nearly all other plug-in hybrids qualify across the board, but not unheard of. As I mentioned earlier, Subaru used to do the same thing with the PZEV (an older, less stringent version of TZEV) vehicles a few years ago when PZEV was only required in a handful of states. This is also why, with a couple of exceptions like the Volt and the Prius Prime, many plug-in hybrids are only available in the eligible states. At this point, the profit margin on them is probably lower than conventional vehicles, so manufacturers only sell them in states where they get credits for doing so. Another Subaru example - Subaru is planning to release a plug-in hybrid version of its Crosstrek next year, but the latest word is they only plan to sell them in states where they can get ZEV/TZEV credits.

For what it's worth...


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

My how the time has flown by! It's so sad to see all these "OG" owners parting ways with their diesels. Although my driving habits changed considerably after only 2 years of ownership, I still hung on to it. Now that I'm finally closing in on 100K and the TB and water pump repair, I too find myself contemplating moving on, or sticking it out another 3-4 years. I love this car and really would like to have it "forever", but maybe it's time for something new.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

First off ... there are 2 listed emissions packages for the Volt: Standard Emissions (which are A or B as 5th digit of VIN) and Low Emissions (C or D as 5th digit of VIN) as stated by the OP. Not sure why the difference, but when I "built my own" Volt on multiple websites, there was no difference in the price of the car caused by the emissions choice. This is what it says in regard to "Low Emissions" when building one: Low Emissions Package (Enhanced At-Pzev Emissions) (PCV) –​ (Requires (YF5) California state emissions requirements or (NE1) Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island or Vermont emissions requirements.)

I was planning on keeping my '13 Volt to be payment free in 12 months, or possibly getting an '18 Cruze Diesel 6M Hatch. Ended up breaking down and buying a 2018 Volt Premier instead, and will trade in the '13 Volt. I sure hope the new one is as trouble-free as the current one has been, otherwise, I'm going to regret getting rid of a car that had been virtually problem free and still running strong.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

You made a great choice - you'll love the car. I absolutely love my 2017.

When it's warm, there are some days I'd likely hit 70+ miles on the charge, if I had that many miles to drive. The AC is one of the best systems I've ever encountered in a vehicle, and really isn't as much of an energy hog as I was expecting - it uses about half the power as the heater does.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Rivergoer said:


> Congratulations. Good info
> 
> So don’t leave us hangin.......what’s the difference between a ‘normal’ VOLT and a TZEV-equipped one?


None, other than the TZEV Volts have a VIN identifying them as being delivered to a dealership in a CARB state. The effective difference is a longer warranty on the battery and high voltage electronics.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

ChevyGuy said:


> Unless some states only recognize one program and not the other, it doesn't make any sense that they'd have to two different programs.


TZEV and PZEV are terms coined by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). PZEV basically is a technical requirement to keep secondary gas fumes from entering the atmosphere - this is handled by using a higher pressure in the EVAP recovery system along with some other modifications to the exhaust system to capture more unburned gasoline. TZEV is the term CARB applies to PZEV cars that have a minimum electric battery size. You can determine this size for each year by looking at the battery on the Prius plug-in as Toyota puts this size battery, and no larger in the Prius Plug-in each year.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

PanJet said:


> By "two different names" I'm assuming maybe you're referring to my reference to the ZEV and TZEV. Those are actually just two different acronyms to describe the types of vehicles (either full-electric or plug-in hybrids) that are eligible for the program, but it's still just one program. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> With regard to the differing VIN, I'm sure there is some sort of minor difference probably having to do with the emissions system, like I described earlier. Whatever it is, it does not affect performance at all, and it must be pretty minor, possibly having to do with the injectors, or cat, or something along those lines.
> 
> ...


I'd like to see the Federal tax credit on EVs modified to require the vehicle be available in all states, just for this one reason. (CARB) compliance vehicles simply shouldn't be eligible.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

MP81 said:


> The AC is one of the best systems I've ever encountered in a vehicle...


I noticed that! I was very pleasantly surprised the AC cools quickly and puts out rather cold air if you want it to. It hasn't been super hot here yet this summer, and running mine on Eco mode has been plenty more than sufficient. It cools far more quickly than my Cruze did.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah - electric compressors are crazy good. It's rare for me to run HVAC at all, but when I do, it's almost always on Eco mode.

In the winter, ERDTT is actually something I look forward to, as I can run the heater, be comfortable, and still watch my EV range actually increase when stopped at a light, if the engine is running at that point.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

This may have been addressed, but what does it cost to fully re-charge the Volt? I have read it averages 56 MPG, but honestly, that's not too impressive. My CTD does better than this and I don't have a 50 mile range...more like 750.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The Volt has over a 400 mile range with gas and electric, and that's just going by the EPA figures - which it beats on both the EV and gas front. It only has an 8.9 gallon tank. I average roughly 46 mpg on gas in the summer, depending on how fast I am going (RPM is not linear), if I have the AC on, etc - if I had a 15 gallon tank, that'd be almost 700 miles - plus the ~65-70 miles I can get on EV.

I spend about $30 a month to charge the car. My wife spends about $150-200 a month on Diesel for her CTD, driving the same route to and from work as I do, plus her own driving outside of commuting.

In the summer, I average 130-150 MPGe - that's quite a bit more than your CTD manages.  I fill up twice a *year*​.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

How is the acceleration on the Volt? I would be worried about the battery life or failures. Seems like a decent car but the electric part scares me more than the diesel does. I just don't see many older Volts on the road it seems and not sure if that is because of cost to repair or just not that many being sold.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> How is the acceleration on the Volt? I would be worried about the battery life or failures. Seems like a decent car but the electric part scares me more than the diesel does. I just don't see many older Volts on the road it seems and not sure if that is because of cost to repair or just not that many being sold.


Acceleration is excellent. It has roughly the same horsepower and weight (maybe 50-100 lbs. heavier?) as the Gen 1 Cruze Diesel (149 to the CTDs 151), but more torque at 294 lb. ft. all of which is available instantly. It's no Tesla, but in "Sport" mode it'll put you in your seat. I believe the Volt is the only plug-in hybrid that has 100% of its performance capability with electric only - as long as there is charge in the battery, it does not need any help from the gas engine no matter how hard you push it.

I'm not worried about the battery life anymore. The Gen 1 Volts have shown almost no battery degradation (oldest ones are now nearly 8 years old), which is far superior to the Nissan Leaf since GM uses an active, liquid battery conditioning system as opposed to the Leaf's passive air-cooled system. Also, the warranty on the battery and electric drive train is 8 years/100,000 miles, or if you're in a ZEV state like I am, it's actually 10 years/150,000 miles on the battery and electric drive train, including electric AC compressors, etc.

GM has been very conservative with their batteries, a "Full" charge is really only about 80% of the battery's true capacity, and "Empty" still has about 20% remaining. This prevents overcharging and discharging, two of the primary culprits of battery degradation.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

On the Volt forum ... there's actually a guy that has determined the Gen-1 Volt accelerates fastest in "hold" mode ... and after his Volt was outside it's warranty period, he started tinkering with the software and actually reduced his 0-60 acceleration time to under 6 seconds! I "raced" an Infiniti G35 one day with my Volt in sport mode in a dual left turn lane to get onto I-25, and even though I was in the outside lane, I beat him around the curve and was able to merge safely in front of him by the time we reached 70 mph, then he was able to pass me on the interstate rather quickly, but I beat him to that point. That driver was DEFINITELY not happy that my lil Volt beat him ... even gave me the 1 finger congratulatory wave!
:biglaugha:

I can't speak to the Gen-2 yet, as I don't pick mine up until next week, but my test drive of the Gen-2 certainly seemed a bit more peppy, with a tire roach from the stoplight in sport mode and the frightened face of the young 20-something salesman ... while my 10-year old son was grinning from ear to ear. Looking forward to the new one ... and have actually decided to keep the '13 Volt as well, so I'll be a 2-Volt family, which is cool, having a Gen-1 and Gen-2 ... because I don't think there will be a Gen-3 in current body form. There's talk of changing it to more of a "CUV" style in 2022 or 2023.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

PanJet said:


> Acceleration is excellent. It has roughly the same horsepower and weight (maybe 50-100 lbs. heavier?) as the Gen 1 Cruze Diesel (149 to the CTDs 151), but more torque at 294 lb. ft. all of which is available instantly. It's no Tesla, but in "Sport" mode it'll put you in your seat. I believe the Volt is the only plug-in hybrid that has 100% of its performance capability with electric only - as long as there is charge in the battery, it does not need any help from the gas engine no matter how hard you push it.
> 
> I'm not worried about the battery life anymore. The Gen 1 Volts have shown almost no battery degradation (oldest ones are now nearly 8 years old), which is far superior to the Nissan Leaf since GM uses an active, liquid battery conditioning system as opposed to the Leaf's passive air-cooled system. Also, the warranty on the battery and electric drive train is 8 years/100,000 miles, or if you're in a ZEV state like I am, it's actually 10 years/150,000 miles on the battery and electric drive train, including electric AC compressors, etc.
> 
> GM has been very conservative with their batteries, a "Full" charge is really only about 80% of the battery's true capacity, and "Empty" still has about 20% remaining. This prevents overcharging and discharging, two of the primary culprits of battery degradation.


The Gen-2 is the ultimate troll-mobile. GM really focused on 0-30 mph times, and I know it'll beat one of the lower-level Model S's to 30mph, pretty handily. It doesn't have a ton after that - but it's by no means dead. It's real easy to make a pass when you're going 50 mph. 

My favorite "victim" is Hemi Rams, given their drivers tend to be assholes who like to get in the ending right turn lane and cut everyone off after the light. It's wonderous hearing their Hemi at full song get quieter and quieter as they have to get in behind me because they can't beat the car off the line. With my 15" winter wheels/tires, they spin for days - but even the stock setup will spin like crazy, especially if its wet. So much instantaneous torque. 

The car handles extremely well, and really is a blast to drive on curving back roads, thanks to the low CG. Also, since the CG is so low, the springs are nice and soft, so it rides really well, too, but has minimal body roll - typically not two things that go together.



spaycace said:


> On the Volt forum ... there's actually a guy that has determined the Gen-1 Volt accelerates fastest in "hold" mode ... and after his Volt was outside it's warranty period, he started tinkering with the software and actually reduced his 0-60 acceleration time to under 6 seconds! I "raced" an Infiniti G35 one day with my Volt in sport mode in a dual left turn lane to get onto I-25, and even though I was in the outside lane, I beat him around the curve and was able to merge safely in front of him by the time we reached 70 mph, then he was able to pass me on the interstate rather quickly, but I beat him to that point. That driver was DEFINITELY not happy that my lil Volt beat him ... even gave me the 1 finger congratulatory wave!
> :biglaugha:
> 
> I can't speak to the Gen-2 yet, as I don't pick mine up until next week, but my test drive of the Gen-2 certainly seemed a bit more peppy, with a tire roach from the stoplight in sport mode and the frightened face of the young 20-something salesman ... while my 10-year old son was grinning from ear to ear. Looking forward to the new one ... and have actually decided to keep the '13 Volt as well, so I'll be a 2-Volt family, which is cool, having a Gen-1 and Gen-2 ... because I don't think there will be a Gen-3 in current body form. There's talk of changing it to more of a "CUV" style in 2022 or 2023.


You're going to love the Gen 2. 

And yep, that's the talk, because people cannot stop buying crossovers. It is at least useful in the EV world, because it means more space for batteries. A friend of mine just bought his second gen-1 Volt. I know he loved his first gen-1, he couldn't help but get back into one.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

If they ever get the battery distance to over 200 miles on a charge, I'd be all over a car like this.


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