# Which door speakers to buy?



## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

first off what is your buget?
are you looking for LOUD(SPL) or for sound quality (SQ).
are you going to add a 4 channel amp to your door speakers.

Im not sure your knowlege is so bare with me if you already know this.
just replacing the door speaker alone will not give you better quality you need to mach it with a 4 amplifier.
the sound stage is the most important thing to upgrade> ie tweeters and front door speakers. 

check out my profile and look at my album for ideas
i would also highly recomend looking at XtremeRevolutions audio posts prob the most knowegable audio person ive personally met. 

check out Sonicelectronics.com they have very good buys there.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Terry is right on. We will need a budget before we can recommend anything.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

While you're working on your stereo budget, play with the bass/mid-range/treble settings. My son adjusted mine and really improved the sound. Also, note that the base radio can remember adjustments for radio, CD, and AUX separately.


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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

tecollins1 said:


> first off what is your buget?
> are you looking for LOUD(SPL) or for sound quality (SQ).
> are you going to add a 4 channel amp to your door speakers.
> 
> ...


I am hoping to get better quality sound without having to spend over US$400 at this point. The car is new and just want a quick upgrade to the standard speakers. I would have thought that pretty much any decent aftermarket speaker would be better than the stock units. 

Do I have to buy an amplifier at this point? I was hoping to not have to do this until I was ready to add a sub woofer sometime next year.

For the door speakers, I was looking at Polk Audio db651s, what are your thoughts on these? I also do not want to have to cut a single thing, I prefer to keep my cars as factory as possible, are replacing the door speakers a simple task for this car?

I have read Xtremerevelotions posts as well, that guy is a genius, would appreciate your input on this as well. Thanks!

PS. I am no audio expert but work in IT so hopefully I can grasp your ideas pretty quickly! Thanks again
[h=1][/h][h=1][/h][h=1][/h][h=1][/h]


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## papoose42 (Apr 29, 2012)

Hey do yourself a favor go off the beaten path for door speakers look at beyma they are nice quality get really loud and have good sq at the louder voulume


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

Don't be so quick to scrap the stock speakers.

If you aren't planning on amplifying them, you may be disappointed with the results. Many aftermarket drivers lack the sensitivity of stock, and will simply not perform as well on a stock headunit - despite their potential.

Also, regardless of the driver, most important is the enclosure. Ensure the door is sealed and deadened before investing in $400 drivers.


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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Terry is right on. We will need a budget before we can recommend anything.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


HI XtremeRevolution, would you mind commenting on my post as well? I would much appreciate your input on this, thanks


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

regardless of who is answering, speakers are an extremely difficult recommendation. What sounds good to ones ear, may not sound good to yours. Peoples taste in drivers differ wildly. It is much easier to recommend components such as amps and headunits, as they play less a role in the colouration of sound.

What you really need to do is go to as many audio shops as possible and listen to as many drivers as needed to find ones that suit your tastes.


You need to start thinking ahead if you are going to run active or passive crossovers?, amplified or not?, as this will affect your install and driver choice.

with that said, for $400 you can pick up at new set of Hertz HSK-165 no problem. Personally I've never heard Polk drivers that I enjoy.
I'd look into the regular culprits like Focal, Morel, Hertz, Scanspeak, DynAudio.

again..I'd be looking at the enclosure first though


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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

jstoner22 said:


> regardless of who is answering, speakers are an extremely difficult recommendation. What sounds good to ones ear, may not sound good to yours. Peoples taste in drivers differ wildly. It is much easier to recommend components such as amps and headunits, as they play less a role in the colouration of sound.
> 
> What you really need to do is go to as many audio shops as possible and listen to as many drivers as needed to find ones that suit your tastes.
> 
> ...


Can you explain this a little further? "You need to start thinking ahead if you are going to run active or passive crossovers?, amplified or not?, as this will affect your install and driver choice."  

Also, are the tweeters at the front in the pillars any good or is it those that I should be looking to replace as well?

Do you think for the money that I am better off just buying an amp and subwoofer and using the standard speakers for the mid and treble? After all, it does seem to be the bass that sucks the most so far in the stock system.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstoner22 said:


> regardless of who is answering, speakers are an extremely difficult recommendation. What sounds good to ones ear, may not sound good to yours. Peoples taste in drivers differ wildly. It is much easier to recommend components such as amps and headunits, as they play less a role in the colouration of sound.
> 
> What you really need to do is go to as many audio shops as possible and listen to as many drivers as needed to find ones that suit your tastes.
> 
> ...


This is true up to a point. I haven't ever had anyone sit in my car and walk out saying "yeah, I've heard better." Preference is based entirely on experience, and what sounds "right" to you. I would call audio and sound quality more of a disease; because once you hear what it's supposed to sound like, you strive to make it sound as close to that as possible. I run a 2-way active with some very robust tweeters crossed down to 1600hz and a set of wool/paper Silver Flute midwoofers that can play cleanly up to 3000hz but are also crossed at 1600hz. The system produces an amazing sound stage and you'd have no idea that anything was done to it just by looking inside the cabin. Once you've put together one of my "cookie cutter" active systems, the only way to make it sound better will be to buy better drivers. 

I would never recommend any passive 2-way systems over $200. For $250 (excluding amplifier), you can have an incredible 2-way active system with a miniDSP, and I can take all the guesswork out for you and send you the tune file to flash to the miniDSP (just like a tune for the car's engine computer), and you'll have a competition-grade SQ system that can also play louder than you'd ever want to listen, cleanly. 



motox5 said:


> Can you explain this a little further? "You need to start thinking ahead if you are going to run active or passive crossovers?, amplified or not?, as this will affect your install and driver choice."
> 
> Also, are the tweeters at the front in the pillars any good or is it those that I should be looking to replace as well?
> 
> Do you think for the money that I am better off just buying an amp and subwoofer and using the standard speakers for the mid and treble? After all, it does seem to be the bass that sucks the most so far in the stock system.


You will need to replace the tweeters no matter what. They are pivotal in how your system will sound, and all component sets will include replacement tweeters. The question here is, how much are you willing to learn? A full active system will cost you $250 plus amplifier, and I'm fairly certain you can buy a perfectly capable 4-channel amplifier for $120-$150. All you'll have left to buy is the AA-GM44 PAC harness (just under $40) and power cables. It will probably take you up to $500 total, but you'll thank me when it's done. If you don't do it this way, you'll end up wishing you did when you hear a Cruze that has it done and you'll do it anyway. 

I'm in the process of writing an article that explains passive and active crossovers, but the general concept of it is that an active crossover uses digital processing to separate the frequency ranges that the tweeter and the midwoofer play, while a passive crossover (such as the one bundled with every component set out there like the Polk set you were looking at) will separate those frequencies through analog filtering, which comes with its own set of compromises. 

I would recommend looking over my thread in the how-to/tutorial section on Sound Quality. Here's the link:
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/57-how-forum/6056-car-audio-sq-how-thread.html

It's a bit lengthy and the information is scattered across all 34 pages, but I'm currently working on a more condensed version of it that wouldn't be as difficult to read.


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

motox5 said:


> Can you explain this a little further? "You need to start thinking ahead if you are going to run active or passive crossovers?, amplified or not?, as this will affect your install and driver choice."
> 
> Also, are the tweeters at the front in the pillars any good or is it those that I should be looking to replace as well?
> 
> Do you think for the money that I am better off just buying an amp and subwoofer and using the standard speakers for the mid and treble? After all, it does seem to be the bass that sucks the most so far in the stock system.



well 'active' implies that the crossovers are being applied to the signal prior to amplification. this is generally achieved by a headunits internal crossovers, or external DSP of some sort.

at the end of the day this will provide you with the most flexibility and potential better sounding system than passive will allow - to a point.
active also equal more tuning and more channels of amplification needed.

So when I say plan, i mean decide where you want your system to be 6 months from now when you are adding your sub and build it around what your end goal is. It is a **** of a lot cheaper to purchase gear once than continually upgrading.

If you do decide to go active, you need to determine what part of your audio chain is going to provide the appropriate crossovers needed. However you may be able to save some money as there are some companies out there that make driver packages excluding passive crossovers.


If SQ is your goal, you are going to want time alignment of some sort. This means if you decide to go passive, ensure that you are able to bi-amp the drivers.


Nowadays class D amps have come a long way. You should be able to find a hearty 4channel that will give you 100-150rms/channel for $150. a nice set component set for $200 and another $50 on some deadening.


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> This is true up to a point. I haven't ever had anyone sit in my car and walk out saying "yeah, I've heard better." Preference is based entirely on experience, and what sounds "right" to you. I would call audio and sound quality more of a disease; because once you hear what it's supposed to sound like, you strive to make it sound as close to that as possible. I run a 2-way active with some very robust tweeters crossed down to 1600hz and a set of wool/paper Silver Flute midwoofers that can play cleanly up to 3000hz but are also crossed at 1600hz. The system produces an amazing sound stage and you'd have no idea that anything was done to it just by looking inside the cabin. Once you've put together one of my "cookie cutter" active systems, the only way to make it sound better will be to buy better drivers.



"Preference is based entirely on experience, and what sounds "right" to you "

-I completely agree.

"I would call audio and sound quality more of a disease; because once you hear what it's supposed to sound like, you strive to make it sound as close to that as possible"

-Here is the problem. Yes there are a few people who strive to make their music sound as close to the source material as possible. But most don't do this. Most adhere to what you first said, what sounds right to them.


Your system may be technically stellar with a great soundstage etc. He may jump in your car and hate it, despite how good it actually may be. It is completely subjective - and front stage drivers are the most subjective part of the system.

Can you recommend a good starting point for him with some good drivers? sure. But he really needs to go out to a shop and form his own opinion.


haha and "I haven't ever had anyone sit in my car and walk out saying "yeah, I've heard better.""
I wish I could say that. For those addicted to audio, I can't believe that though. Its a disease like you said, and thats the problem. There is always something better. It is also why my wallet is always lighter than it should be.


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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> This is true up to a point. I haven't ever had anyone sit in my car and walk out saying "yeah, I've heard better." Preference is based entirely on experience, and what sounds "right" to you. I would call audio and sound quality more of a disease; because once you hear what it's supposed to sound like, you strive to make it sound as close to that as possible. I run a 2-way active with some very robust tweeters crossed down to 1600hz and a set of wool/paper Silver Flute midwoofers that can play cleanly up to 3000hz but are also crossed at 1600hz. The system produces an amazing sound stage and you'd have no idea that anything was done to it just by looking inside the cabin. Once you've put together one of my "cookie cutter" active systems, the only way to make it sound better will be to buy better drivers.
> 
> I would never recommend any passive 2-way systems over $200. For $250 (excluding amplifier), you can have an incredible 2-way active system with a miniDSP, and I can take all the guesswork out for you and send you the tune file to flash to the miniDSP (just like a tune for the car's engine computer), and you'll have a competition-grade SQ system that can also play louder than you'd ever want to listen, cleanly.
> 
> ...


I was thinking of going with these JBL-GT0638 3 way speakers for now, they seem like a good deal for those just looking to replace the door speakers. It also seems as though they get rave reviews all over the place. What are your thoughts? Would they fit? Offer better sound than standard? It seems like everyone that reviews them says this is the case.

Amazon.com: JBL GTO638 6.5-Inch 3-Way Speakers (Pair): Car Electronics


Oh and I like what you are saying here and would be interested in knowing more on it" I would never recommend any passive 2-way systems over $200. For $250 (excluding amplifier), you can have an incredible 2-way active system with a miniDSP, and I can take all the guesswork out for you and send you the tune file to flash to the miniDSP (just like a tune for the car's engine computer), and you'll have a competition-grade SQ system that can also play louder than you'd ever want to listen, cleanly. What is required to load the tune file? Just my laptop?



You will need to replace the tweeters no matter what. They are pivotal in how your system will sound, and all component sets will include replacement tweeters. The question here is, how much are you willing to learn? A full active system will cost you $250 plus amplifier, and I'm fairly certain you can buy a perfectly capable 4-channel amplifier for $120-$150. All you'll have left to buy is the AA-GM44 PAC harness (just under $40) and power cables. It will probably take you up to $500 total, but you'll thank me when it's done. If you don't do it this way, you'll end up wishing you did when you hear a Cruze that has it done and you'll do it anyway. "

Are you saying here that for $500, I would have the amplifier, the Gm44 PAC, the harness and then all I would have left to buy is the 6.5" speakers for the doors?

Thanks for all your help once again!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstoner22 said:


> "Preference is based entirely on experience, and what sounds "right" to you "
> 
> -I completely agree.
> 
> ...


I've had people argue profusely with me on this point, and they always reach a wall. You can only say "what sounds right to you is all that matters." If you come to me and tell me that a set of Polk DB series speakers sounds better than my miniDSP-based full active 2-way, I'll tell you to go fly a kite. Audio is subjective only to a certain point. You can say "well I don't like how aluminum midwoofers sound" and I'll come back saying "well no kidding, they will sound harsh and strained above 1,000hz." Audio is more science than it is subjective. What's subjective is aspects to how something sounds that you cannot explain or don't have enough knowledge of. You say you like paper cones over poly or aluminum and it's based on preference. I say there's a reason why you like paper and it's a scientific reason that has nothing to do with preference. It's just a matter of how well you know those drivers, and most people don't have a clue. They go based on what sounds good to them because they don't have the expertise to actually choose a driver and know what it will sound like. I've developed that ability through designing home theater speakers and voicing them over the past couple of years.

I never said it needs to be measurably flat, however. The only reason why audio becomes so "subjective" when installed in cars is because the environments are so difficult to work with. You will never make it perfect because there will always be a compromise. I focused on home theater speaker design and crossover design simply because you can actually get decent results that have few compromises. I don't have to sit here trying to cram a $125 tweeter in to a pillar and cut off the rear chamber and raise the resonant frequency to try to get a better sound stage while making it look factory so someone doesn't break into my car. I'm not limited on space or extension, and I don't have door that is difficult to get *good *midbass output out of. Sure, I can deaden my doors and seal them with SDS CLD tiles, closed cell foam, and mass loaded vinyl, but my home theater speakers will sound better with less effort, and there is less compromise. 

I maintain that it's a science, and it comes down to more than just frequency response. To me, subjectivity is merely an excuse for a lack of scientific knowledge and experience. If you're striving to enjoy your music and always chasing that ultimate SQ install, you will eventually learn enough to take you back to the scientific aspect of it and try to learn why something sounds better to you than something else. You'll discover that your passive crossovers make your tweeters shrill and fatiguing because of stored energy in a rear chamber that isn't crossed over high enough, or a spike in the resonant frequency that isn't filtered out, or what have you. 

Every system you hear that sounds better than yours is simply more true to the recording, while hiding flaws and compromises that are inherent in car audio installs. I'm past the problem of hearing something that's true to the recording. My problem now is getting a good recording, as my system is *much *too revealing of bad recording and fidelity losses through compression.

The problem with him going out and listening to stuff is that anything he hears will be either inferior to what a miniDSP setup will provide, or will be in another car where they'll sound completely different than in his Cruze.

You are more than welcome to come listen to my system, or meet me at the Lordstown national meet I'm planning in April and have a listen to my car. For ~$1000, it can't be beat. *Note, this whole time, I'm also considering a budget*. My statements are relative to costs, since those of us with bottomless pockets don't drive Chevy Cruzes. For what the OP can spend, nothing on a passive crossover will beat the setup I've designed for people on this board. Nothing. 



motox5 said:


> I was thinking of going with these JBL-GT0638 3 way speakers for now, they seem like a good deal for those just looking to replace the door speakers. It also seems as though they get rave reviews all over the place. What are your thoughts? Would they fit? Offer better sound than standard? It seems like everyone that reviews them says this is the case.
> 
> Amazon.com: JBL GTO638 6.5-Inch 3-Way Speakers (Pair): Car Electronics
> 
> ...


Those speakers won't work. Those are coaxials. If you want to go passive, you need to find a *component set*. The miniDSP is an active crossover that requires a 4-channel amplifier to power the speakers, as you're amplifying each individual driver (2 tweeters and 2 door speakers) individually. All you need is a laptop. If you go with the specific drivers a few people here on this board have chosen, I can even send you a tune file that will take the guesswork out of it. 

For $500, you can have the tweeters, woofers, miniDSP, wiring, PAC harness, *and *4 channel amplifier, and the $250 you spend on the miniDSP and speaker drivers will blow away ANYTHING that you can find retail as a component set for less than $500. If you can tune it right, you will destroy anything out there for less than $700. It is ridiculously powerful. 

Door speakers:
The Madisound Speaker Store

Tweeters:
Vifa BC25SC06-04 1" Textile Dome Tweeter 264-1028

MiniDSP parts:
miniDSP Kits | miniDSP
Audio plug-ins summary table | miniDSP - 2-way advanced
miniDC Isolator | miniDSP

Wiring from Amp Installation Kits, HDMI Cables, and a good CEA-2006 (or reputable manufacturer) 4-channel amp with at least 50Wx4 RMS.

Oh yeah, and you'll need a set of custom MDF baffles/rings for those speakers. I sell them for $65 shipped.

Poke around my site a bit and check out the audio-related articles. They'll help you understand some of these topics. I'm working on two right now related to different speaker drivers, and how crossovers work. 

http://xtremerevolution.net/


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

This would be for a passive set up







Notice the crossover box (separates the high and mid frequency to each speaker/tweeter) and that the tweeters are separated from the speaker. Your tweeter will be going in the pillars on your dash.
This is what I have. (Like stated above I also wish I went "active" but for now its still night and day difference from stock.

For active you will most Likely buy the woofer an the tweeter separately depending of cost and the capabilities of each. It will not have the crossover box since the minidsp does that job already.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

tecollins1 said:


> This would be for a passive set up
> View attachment 9002
> 
> Notice the crossover box (separates the high and mid frequency to each speaker/tweeter) and that the tweeters are separated from the speaker. Your tweeter will be going in the pillars on your dash.
> ...


Those IDX ct comps are great. High quality crossover components, great poly mids, and a fabric tweeter. It's a solid set and a great value. I recommend it highly if you don't want to spend the money on a minidsp and want more simplicity. 

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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

XtremeRevolution - 

sorry man but I can't agree with some of the stuff you are saying.

Of course there is science behind why certain speakers sound like they do. I'm just saying the guy needs to decide what kind of sound he likes - and to infer that he shouldn't go to shops and listen is foolish in my opinion. No one should blindly purchase speakers.
Also, having a system sound better than another doesn't necessarily mean it is more true to the recording. Thats my point. Many people like exaggerated EQ curves, straying from the true recording. That individual may think the system sounds better even though it technically is not. That is what I mean by subjectivity.

I also think it is quite foolish to make blanket statements that your system is the end all be all and CANNOT be beat. Did you make a fantastic system on $1000? sure, I believe it!
and that it will destroy ANY driver up to $700? come on!? you simply don't know this.


I'm all for what you are suggesting with the budget and the gear you want to incorporate btw.

(and I would never say Polk sound better than your DSP powered system. As I said before, I've never heard Polks that I personally like)

*and I know we haven't spoken much on here, but I enjoy these debates! so don't take anything I say as abrasive.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstoner22 said:


> XtremeRevolution -
> 
> sorry man but I can't agree with some of the stuff you are saying.
> 
> ...


Well, let me clarify. I get ahead of myself. My system cannot be beat for thr price I paid for it. A 15" IDQ15 legendary sq sub, two 20 year old coustic power logic amps I got for $80 shipped, an alpine mrp-m1000 I got used for $120, and a custom built box, and I make very good sq boxes. The sound stage consists of those Silver Flute drivers, which are an incredible value among even home theater components, and are godlike among car audio components. Massive motor, extremely low moving mass, amazingly flat frequency response, and very high extension. They are direcly on par with $75+ drivers. The tweeters are morel mdt-44 modified to fit in the pillars in the factory location, and cross down to 1600hz. Thats ridiculously low for a tweeter. They were $125 apiece and I got them for $60 shipped for thr pair. Those and the mids are crossed with 8th order filters on the minidsp. That's 48db/octave! I have a dayton mm-6 measurement microphone with which I can measure in-cab frequency response. With that, I identify and fix large anomalies that are driver and car-specific, like a corner loaded spike at 2500-4000hz that causes massive amounts of listening fatigue, with the 18 parametric eq bands. I boost the top end to compensate for off-axis droop. All of this, that a component set cannot do, and I keep the factory deck! No other processing or expensive head unit. 

With a component set, you always pay for a name and pay an insane premium just because its designed for car audio. The ability to use any driver you want not only allows you to use much, much better components for the money, but also allows you to see the characteristics of all of the drivers instead of walking blindly. I know the raw frequency response of my woofers and tweeters before I buy. 

You cannot demo a component set in a store effectively because it wil sound so much different in your car than it will in anyone's car or mounted to a board at a car audio shop. That's where the minidsp comss in. You tune specifically to your car's environment, which no $250 components can do, and you get much better drivers for the money. If you had more, you could go with scanspeak or seas midwoofers and tweeters that will compete with top of the line morels and focals for a fraction of the price. 

On top of all this, the doors are heavily treated with cld tiles, closed cell foam, and a amazing mass loaded vinyl sound barrier from sounddeadenershowdown.com, and the trunk is also heavily treated.

Knowing all this, I don't see how you can possibly beat that for $1000 or less unless you got the parts for free. The measurement mic, usb pre-amp and measurement software allow me to see it all and know exactly what I'm doing, and in the end, you still have the ability to tune the minidsp eq to your personal tastes should you want a brighter tweeter, thicker midbass, or more pronounced midrange. 

The $1000 also includes wiring and accessories. 

Knowing I can send you a minidsp tuned file for the aforementioned drivers specific for the Cruze, what component set at $250 or less can even come close? By design limitations alone, none. That $250 gets you significantly better drivers, immense personalization ability, and a full system tune as a baseline. 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## Jnoobs (Nov 22, 2012)

I've got a set of four Alpine Type S door speakers in my LT hooked up to a 4 channel Alpine MRX-F30 Amplifier and it sounds great. Very loud and, when the bass level is tuned up, provide great bass and clear sound. I also have two Alpine Type S12-D2 Subs hooked up to an Alpine MRX-M110 Amp (loudest subs ive ever had) and the speakers STILL provide CLEAR, AUDIBLE, Lyric-hearing sound through all that roof rattling bass. 


And yes, i do like Alpine, hence all the equipment ccasion14:


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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

tecollins1 said:


> This would be for a passive set up
> View attachment 9002
> 
> Notice the crossover box (separates the high and mid frequency to each speaker/tweeter) and that the tweeters are separated from the speaker. Your tweeter will be going in the pillars on your dash.
> ...


This looks like a great quick and affordable fix. Are those the same model that would fit the Cruze? 

What's your opinion Extreme? good temporary solution until I am ready to take your suggestion late next year and follow your build? Thanks again for all your guys help.


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Double post...
Delete.


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

He's the one that recommended them to me. Like stated above I have the exact same model in my car. Hardest part will be to find them for the price that did "in stock". 

As of right now sonic electronics is selling them for $160 but... They are out of stock and have been for a while.

Just remember you will need a amp as well as custom baffles.


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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

tecollins1 said:


> He's the one that recommended them to me. Like stated above I have the exact same model in my car. Hardest part will be to find them for the price that did "in stock".
> 
> As of right now sonic electronics is selling them for $160 but... They are out of stock and have been for a while.
> 
> Just remember you will need a amp as well as custom baffles.


I will need an AMP such as the one Extreme recommended. Plus the GM44 PAC correct?

And are there any fitment issues? 

Custom Baffles? Maaning the ones that Extreme can provide?


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

motox5 said:


> I will need an AMP such as the one Extreme recommended. Plus the GM44 PAC correct?
> 
> And are there any fitment issues?
> 
> Custom Baffles? Maaning the ones that Extreme can provide?


Yes all of those are correct plus 
Power cables, RCA cable, and speaker wire.
Knuconceptz.com
Will give you good quality wires at a good price

No prob with fitment 

Yes XR will make them for you.
You will also new self taping screws and a drill bit for the speaker install.

But this install is not hard at all.



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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Those are good comps. Go with the minidsp option only if you want to spend a bit of time learning about audio and want to spend an extra $100. 

I can make the baffles. For $65 shipped, I include self drilling screws, screws for the speakers, and speaker gasket tape for both.

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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

tecollins1 said:


> Yes all of those are correct plus
> Power cables, RCA cable, and speaker wire.
> Knuconceptz.com
> Will give you good quality wires at a good price
> ...


Regarding the self tapping screws, does that mean that this is not a direct bolt on replacement? I was really trying to avoid cutting and drilling all together.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

motox5 said:


> Regarding the self tapping screws, does that mean that this is not a direct bolt on replacement? I was really trying to avoid cutting and drilling all together.


Nothing by will be a bolt on replacement as the factory speakers are built into their brackets. You could buy the plastic scoche speaker adapters, but there's no guarantee that they will fit well with all components, and they are a bit flimsy. You can get those for $15 for the pair shipped. You'll still have to run new wiring of course. 

I custom make my brackets to give people a better option.

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

motox5 said:


> Regarding the self tapping screws, does that mean that this is not a direct bolt on replacement? I was really trying to avoid cutting and drilling all together.


To be honest I bought the plastic ones first and holding the speaker and the plastic piece each hand it didn't make sense to install it. 
XR baffles speak for themselves. 
Your only adding 4-5 holes in each door. And no one will ever see them or the speakers because they will be behind the door panel. 


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

As I promised, my article on different speaker drivers is up. This along with my other Audio 101 articles will help you get a better understanding of how audio works and why we recommend that you install certain components. 

Audio 101 - Types of Speaker Drivers - The Xtreme Revolution

In the Home and Mobile Audio category, you can find the other two Audio 101 articles I've written on on/off axis response, and frequency response. Those would also be helpful for you to read and understand. 
Home & Mobile Audio - The Xtreme Revolution


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

motox5 said:


> This looks like a great quick and affordable fix. Are those the same model that would fit the Cruze?
> 
> What's your opinion Extreme? good temporary solution until I am ready to take your suggestion late next year and follow your build? Thanks again for all your guys help.


Newegg has the Image dynamics CXT65cs in stock for $160 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1FG0FC9698


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## weimerrj (Dec 4, 2011)

tecollins1 said:


> Newegg has the Image dynamics CXT65cs in stock for $160
> 
> Newegg.com - CTX65CS - Image Dynamics 6.5" Component Speaker System
> 
> ...


Would these be good speakers to replace the fronts *without* an amp?


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

No. 
I've talked to x for one of my friends before about this.

Basically the head unit (or any) is only giving you 10-15 watts rms (even if it says 40w x4. Those specs for head units are over rated.
So if the speaker is rated at 60watts rms (per speaker) you are only giving it 10-15 watts per channel

If you don't want to add a amp you have to get really efficient speakers. X said any cheap speaker you will find at Walmart or autozone would be best for going off head unit power.but that doesn't mean you are going to get better sound quality. That's basically for just replacing a blown stock speaker.

A 4 ch amp is highly recommended.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

I need to chime in here, I respect XR as much as the next person, but i'm having a hard time seeing the miniDSP being reccomended to people who want to spend $400 on an entire system. 

The miniDSP is a great product at an even better price, but anyone who will have any luck whatsoever with the miniDSP will have already heard of it and either have it, or something else.

the active or passive comments are valid, but the OP posted a 3 way co ax as his speaker of choice, so there are some steep learning curves here and going active is unfortunately not the easiest thing to do, and without proper knowledge of x/over points and even x/over slopes it's real easy to end up with a worse sound than just going passive, which I'll highly recommend to the OP.

home audio speakers in a car.... Great, this is a great way to go, also hard to beat the price points, but really hard to recommend to someone without quite a bit of audio knowledge. not trying to knock the OP at all, i'm just not seeing it happen.


Now, i'm going to give my thoughts, take it or leave it i won't be offended.
Basics, you need a 6.5" component set(mid, tweeter, crossover), a 2 channel amplifier and a wiring kit. some(many) amps have speaker level inputs so that's something to look for, many budget priced amps have speaker level inputs so you won't need a line output converter! 

In keeping your budget under $400, I'd say spend just over $100 on the amp and wiring. you will do well with 75w RMSx2 for any speaker set in your budget and they can be found for under $100 at sonicelectronix that leaves you around $300 for....

Speakers, this is the hard part, while amps and wiring won't make a difference in your sound (at this price point) the speakers will. you can spend $300 on a set of speakers that will rival $600 speakers from other brands easily (Hybrid Imagines come to mind) or you can spend $300 on a set of over priced brand name speakers where you're paying for the name. 
At this point you can read reviews all over the place , like your 3 way coax speakers, but you need to go out and hear the speakers yourself, preferably in a car, which is why this is the hard part. demoing speakers on a board in a store isn't the greatest way to do things but it does help, hearing them in a stores demo car is much better, but not realistic unfortunately (thats what sold me on $300 imagines  )

so get out to your local audio shops (not best buy) and demo some speakers, see what you like. different stores will have different brands, so go to many stores and pick what's right for you.
I won't tell you what brand to buy, but i do encourage you to demo a set of hybrid imagines (you'll have to find a hybrid dealer in your area Home - The Home of the World's Finest Loudspeakers, and World Championship Car Audio Speaker Systems. ) as myself and many many other audio people find them to be one of the best values out there. other brands to try out are JL, hertz, focal, polk, JBL, alpine, infinity, boston...etc all have speakers in your budget and some will have a distinct sound you may fall in love with.

also, XR makes some amazing looking speaker baffles that will last you forever, but don't be afriad to buy a 1/4 sheet of MDF and a jigsaw from home depot for $30 and try it yourself, you'll feel that much better at the end of the day!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

A couple of things I'd like to respectfully say...

Please read my posts. The value in the minidsp with the parts I recommended is that I can provide you with the tune file. I already have these drivers measured in-cab and tuned. That means its nearly as easy as installing a $250 component set. No knowledge or expertise involved. Just plug it all in in the correct order, upload the tune file from a laptop, and you're done. That's all it takes. No fiddling with crossovers or equalizers; I've already measured for harmonic distortion and frequency response and chosen the best crossover points and baseline EQ settings. The beauty is that you have a fully tuned system already designed around your Cruze that addresses all environment-specific anomalies. If you can spend $250 total on the minidsp plus drivers and another $150 on a 4ch amp and wiring, it's a system that cannot be beat by any passive component set. That is, so long as you use the parts I recommended. Not like you can find better drivers for the money though; believe me I've looked.

The baffles need to be wide enough to cover up the hole height-wise, but also need to be chamfered on the outsides to clear the door skin. Also, they need to be 1.25" thick so the drivers clear the glass, which means you need one .75" and one .50" piece of MDF. Not exaxtly something that you can do with a jigsaw. A router with a 1/2" chamfer bit is needed.

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## motox5 (Nov 22, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Those are good comps. Go with the minidsp option only if you want to spend a bit of time learning about audio and want to spend an extra $100.
> 
> I can make the baffles. For $65 shipped, I include self drilling screws, screws for the speakers, and speaker gasket tape for both.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


I see them here on Amazon at this link. They say "This won't fit your chevy cruze" But I assume that is incorrect. Please have a look at the link below and let me know.

Amazon.com: Ctx65cs - Image Dynamics 6.5" Component Speaker System: Car Electronics

Thanks for the help to both tecollins and XR. How would you compare the image dynamics with amp to your build with the minidsp?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

motox5 said:


> I see them here on Amazon at this link. They say "This won't fit your chevy cruze" But I assume that is incorrect. Please have a look at the link below and let me know.
> 
> Amazon.com: Ctx65cs - Image Dynamics 6.5" Component Speaker System: Car Electronics
> 
> Thanks for the help to both tecollins and XR. How would you compare the image dynamics with amp to your build with the minidsp?


Trust me, they'll fit. Terry has them in his car. Not much more proof is needed past that. 

How would I compare it? Well, Terry heard what my car sounds like, so he'll be able to tell you for himself. It will sound better, but I will admit it's a slight bit more complicated than just hooking up a set of components.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got the 2nd article I mentioned to you done. This one is on crossovers. This will help you understand some of the differences between a component set with a passive crossover, and an active crossover like the miniDSP. 

Audio 101 - Crossovers - The Xtreme Revolution


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