# clutch engagement point



## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Right off the floor, as it should be. The clutch on this car works nicely, IMO. 

I'd bet you're moving your foot a lot more than an inch, and it feels like an inch. Worn clutches are known to happen, but generally either they fail early or at 100k+ miles.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

it was like that since i bought it. Hydraulic clutches shouldnt change the engagement point? I never can feel my brakes go unless they make a noise.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

sciphi said:


> Right off the floor, as it should be. The clutch on this car works nicely, IMO.
> 
> I'd bet you're moving your foot a lot more than an inch, and it feels like an inch. Worn clutches are known to happen, but generally either they fail early or at 100k+ miles.


maybe i am moving it more then i think.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I noticed the engagement point on my old manual transmission car creeping slowly higher as the clutch wore. Finally at 120k miles and 5-6 people learning to drive on it, the clutch started slipping under WOT in 3rd. The engagement point was very high right then. After changing the clutch, it went down quite a ways. 

Easy way to tell if a clutch is slipping: Give it WOT in 3rd at about 2500 RPM. The car should leap like a dog after a rabbit. If the RPM's climb but the car doesn't accelerate, it's time for a clutch.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

sciphi said:


> I noticed the engagement point on my old manual transmission car creeping slowly higher as the clutch wore. Finally at 120k miles and 5-6 people learning to drive on it, the clutch started slipping under WOT in 3rd. The engagement point was very high right then. After changing the clutch, it went down quite a ways.
> 
> Easy way to tell if a clutch is slipping: Give it WOT in 3rd at about 2500 RPM. The car should leap like a dog after a rabbit. If the RPM's climb but the car doesn't accelerate, it's time for a clutch.



oh she does leap like a SOB, i know my clutch isnt bad. It doesnt slip at all, under any hill or anything. Ive driven a car with a bad clutch before.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Cool, so you know all about it then. 

Could be a quirk of you particular car?


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

I have also noticed mine to do this, it engages very low in first but every other it seems it has to be almost fully out. I'll double check after work today.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

see how far you have to push down the peddle in we will say 5th/6th gear until it disengages. With the car on a hill I only have to let it out say in inch to get it to hold ( just for test purpose) but then shifting, i can push it down an inch or so and it disengages.


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

sciphi said:


> Cool, so you know all about it then.
> 
> Could be a quirk of you particular car?



ive only drove a couple of manuals, the other one slipped like a sob, Going up a hill was fun tho, an hour and i was at 30 mph haha


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Chevyderek72 said:


> I have also noticed mine to do this, it engages very low in first but every other it seems it has to be almost fully out. I'll double check after work today.


I actually paid attention to where my car started moving from a stop. 1st gear is only about an inch or two off the floor. I wonder if this is part of the reason I can grind the 1-2 shift when hard accelerating. The rest of the gears seem to be a little more than half way down between fully up and fully down. Pedal has over an inch of play at the top.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Perhaps some hydraulic assist to make it easier to start off? This car already has a lot of innovative little things about it. When you let out on the clutch in neutral or 1st, the motor bumps the revs up a few hundred from idle, but doesn't even attempt this in 2nd.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Perhaps some hydraulic assist to make it easier to start off? This car already has a lot of innovative little things about it. When you let out on the clutch in neutral or 1st, the motor bumps the revs up a few hundred from idle, but doesn't even attempt this in 2nd.


I hadn't noticed a 1st gear engine rev. What I have noticed is that when I'm accelerating moderately the RPMs don't drop immediately when I let off the gas and put the clutch in to shift.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Yeah, I almost mentioned that rev hang, but cars have been doing that since the 90s and i figured it was the norm now. Having the AC running kills that little hang that makes it less convenient to hit the next gear at the right RPM, but it still holds at much higher revs. 

Try it though - at a stoplight, drop your car in neutral, and slowly let up on the clutch pedal while watching the RPM. 

In fact, I was out getting food. Here's a video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2ioCo1PYlc


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I'll give it a try tomorrow.


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

unitednations161 said:


> Hydraulic clutches shouldnt change the engagement point?


The beauty of traditional hydraulic clutch systems is that they are self compensating and will adjust to the wear of the friction disk over time. The clutch fingers will change position typically pushing the slave cylinder rod in/out of the slave cylinder. With the change in geometry of the release fork/pressure plate fingers, the location in which the peak pedal load is felt changes. With a worn clutch, the load will be greater and sooner in the pedal swing vs a new clutch with a lower peak load much lower in the swing. 

A Self-adjusting clutch (SAC) will self adjust pressure plate geometry to compensate for clutch disk wear which keeps the actuation load consistent through out the life of the clutch. 

Does your issue only show up on a cold start up or first actuation after cold start up? or is it present at all times, hot or cold? Do you ever get any long pedal actuations on the higher gear shift?


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> The beauty of traditional hydraulic clutch systems is that they are self compensating and will adjust to the wear of the friction disk over time. The clutch fingers will change position typically pushing the slave cylinder rod in/out of the slave cylinder. With the change in geometry of the release fork/pressure plate fingers, the location in which the peak pedal load is felt changes. With a worn clutch, the load will be greater and sooner in the pedal swing vs a new clutch with a lower peak load much lower in the swing.
> 
> A Self-adjusting clutch (SAC) will self adjust pressure plate geometry to compensate for clutch disk wear which keeps the actuation load consistent through out the life of the clutch.
> 
> Does your issue only show up on a cold start up or first actuation after cold start up? or is it present at all times, hot or cold? Do you ever get any long pedal actuations on the higher gear shift?



It happens all the time, i really dont think its an issue, because the car only has 35000 miles on it, and if the clutch is wore out that much by now, then i shouldnt be driving manual or there is a serious flaw in this car. It just seems, ever since i bought it, that neutral to first is low, and the rest of the gears are like half way or so. And yes there is an inch or so of free play on the peddle.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

Seems about 50-75% down is the engagement point to me. Definitely doesn't have to be on the floor.

Stock clutches are the bane of my existence. I want feedback. Not jelly. When the clutch in this thing goes, its getting a bit stiffer of a clutch.


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