# 1.04g of grip : What i learned...



## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks for this post.

1.04g isn't that like... super sports car territory on the skidpad?


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## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

ErikBEggs said:


> Thanks for this post.
> 
> 1.04g isn't that like... super sports car territory on the skidpad?


Seeing that the new z28 pulled a 1.05g its pretty **** impressive from our little Eco Box if I do say so. Congrats Poje, now how about a tire change or some other tweak, we gotta get a Cruze on par with that z28.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

All i have to say is add chamber bolts and spacers youll be blown away with the difference.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

jakkaroo said:


> All i have to say is add chamber bolts and spacers youll be blown away with the difference.


Ya, i know that i can still improve on this, but i just wanted to cover some basics about the Coil-overs.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Smurfenstein said:


> Seeing that the new z28 pulled a 1.05g its pretty **** impressive from our little Eco Box if I do say so. Congrats Poje, now how about a tire change or some other tweak, we gotta get a Cruze on par with that z28.


Hehe ya, im happy with the results ! :tongue:

As for Tires, those Dunlops are very good. Since this is my daily driver, going to a more extreme tire would mean other compromizes...


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## Nathan of Aus. (May 16, 2013)

When you say 1.04 lateral G is that peak or average? Because when you read about a Supercar doing 1 lateral G on the skidpad that's 1G average.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

Still pretty impressive.

People laugh when I said Chevy claims the LTZ RS outhandles a BMW 328i on dry pavement with OEM tires. I had to peep it. The 2011 iteration of the BMW 328i is a 0.84, LTZ is 0.85 with 67 mph though the slalom. I think the funny part is the Ford Focus outhandles both! Haha!


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Nice thread poje. Very informative.
Only wish there were some videos along with the info. 

What app are you using?

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## alyupe11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Excellent write up...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Nice write-up Poje! That should help some peole out.



Nathan of Aus. said:


> When you say 1.04 lateral G is that peak or average? Because when you read about a Supercar doing 1 lateral G on the skidpad that's 1G average.


Exactly. Timed laps around a skid pad of known diameter are used to calculate average Gs, peak numbers mean very little. Look at the recent videos GM has put out with their cars on the N-Ring. There's a G display on teh lower right that shows the car's acceleration in all horizontal directions. The peak numbers are insane for the latest ZR1 video (over 1.5G IIRC), but that car averages "only" 1.10 on a skid pad.

Poje, what tires are you using? If they're not a full on R-compound tire you're most likely not averaging over 1G in a skidpad test. Sport Compact Car did a test a while back with a Civic Si to see what it would take to get the car to corner harder than a Viper (1.xxG) and they barely got it there with Hoosier slicks if I recall.

How are you measuring your Gs?


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## Nathan of Aus. (May 16, 2013)

To sustain 1 lateral G average with a car weighing 3000lb you would not only want race compound tires with your rock hard coil-overs and lowered ride height but you'd want some seriously wide tires and wheels and a lot of camber.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Nathan of Aus. said:


> When you say 1.04 lateral G is that peak or average? Because when you read about a Supercar doing 1 lateral G on the skidpad that's 1G average.


1.04 was average, if you see the graphic, i go up to 1.05...


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Mick said:


> Nice thread poje. Very informative.
> Only wish there were some videos along with the info.
> 
> What app are you using?
> ...


Dynolicious.

My goal is to buy real testing gear and a GoPro.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Here's the ZR1 video:

2012 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 hits the Nürburgring - YouTube

His lateral G peaks above 2 in at least one spot, but corners with camber will allow higher loading. What a wild ride.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Here's the ZR1 video:
> 
> 2012 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 hits the Nürburgring - YouTube
> 
> His lateral G peaks above 2 in at least one spot, but corners with camber will allow higher loading. What a wild ride.


When i do Lapping on Monday, i'll record multiple laps of grip stats, so we'll see what's what.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yea I will be using my GoPro and TrackMaster app for Android whrn I get back to Autocross and Sandia.

Sent from my Droid


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> 1.04 was average, if you see the graphic, i go up to 1.05...


 Nice numbers! Especially for a front driver. Nice write up too!


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

blk88verde said:


> Nice numbers! Especially for a front driver. Nice write up too!


Thx man.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

ErikBEggs said:


> Thanks for this post.
> 
> 1.04g isn't that like... super sports car territory on the skidpad?


I highly doubt it is sustained 1.04G, pulling over a 1G in instantaneous grip isn't all that hard. Being able to hold it on a skid pad for sustained periods is what makes the difference. I'm sure a bone stock Cruze could pull 1G for a short period of time. For example I have had spikes of over 1.6G in the Trans Am, but it could sustain about 1.02 on the skid pad.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

NBrehm said:


> I highly doubt it is sustained 1.04G, pulling over a 1G in instantaneous grip isn't all that hard. Being able to hold it on a skid pad for sustained periods is what makes the difference. I'm sure a bone stock Cruze could pull 1G for a short period of time. For example I have had spikes of over 1.6G in the Trans Am, but it could sustain about 1.02 on the skid pad.


Yea but Poje is far from a stock cruze I think he has the most mods for track day use.

Sent from my Droid


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

For the weight of this car compared with the cross section of tire and it's fairly high center of gravity, there is no way without full blown race tires you are going to sustain 1G or more with this car. Very good info on the write up but once again don't get sucked into the #'s by themselves.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

NBrehm said:


> For the weight of this car compared with the cross section of tire and it's fairly high center of gravity, there is no way without full blown race tires you are going to sustain 1G or more with this car. Very good info on the write up but once again don't get sucked into the #'s by themselves.


Oh yea for sure and the accelerometer from a phone is not the most persise measurment of lateral G's I am going with Hoosier R compound tires when I turn mine into a track day car.

Sent from my Droid


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Oh yea for sure and the accelerometer from a phone is not the most persise measurment of lateral G's I am going with Hoosier R compound tires when I turn mine into a track day car.
> 
> Sent from my Droid


Dont forget that Tires, Chassis and suspension work together, its all about flexibility.

If u use Slicks, you better have many UR bars and Coil-overs set at very hard.

As for my numbers, i think they are acurate to a point. For reference, i checked when i was completly stock and i got 0.85g, witch is exactly what many Review/test got. Just good tires make a huge difference...


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

Unless you measured out a skidpad and drove the car to the point of breakaway the numbers are purely subjective, something as simple as a bump could throw off a basic application on a phone, but physical measurements don't lie. I'd honestly be surprised if you would get more than .90 sustained, which is still pretty **** good for a narrow track, fairly tall car with small tires and a fairly impressive gain over stock. But there is no way you are making more lateral grip than a low slung, wide track car with massive tires like a Corvette ZR1, which makes nearly identical numbers to what your phone app is saying. Not gonna happen.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

NBrehm said:


> Unless you measured out a skidpad and drove the car to the point of breakaway the numbers are purely subjective, something as simple as a bump could throw off a basic application on a phone, but physical measurements don't lie. I'd honestly be surprised if you would get more than .90 sustained, which is still pretty **** good for a narrow track, fairly tall car with small tires and a fairly impressive gain over stock. But there is no way you are making more lateral grip than a low slung, wide track car with massive tires like a Corvette ZR1, which makes nearly identical numbers to what your phone app is saying. Not gonna happen.


Its true that until i get a VBOX of something equivalent, i wont be able to be 100% sure of the grip i have, but right now, im about 90% sure.

But in realy the numbers are not important since this post was made to talk about Coil-over settings.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

When the first thing you put in your title is 1.04G of grip it kinda puts a big emphasis on it and intentionally or not is misleading to readers who don't know how the measurements are really taken. i could get a stock pick-up truck over 1.0G instantaneous. Even with a V-box you need to do the actual test and not just take a split second G number. Official measurements are done with math and not sensors on a 600ft diameter skid pad. You drive the outside of the skidpad and accelerate until the car cannot be kept in the circle anymore. Record the speed, use the math formula and now you have ACTUAL sustained lateral G's. Accelerometers are notoriously inaccurate because bumping or bouncing them cause spikes in the data they read. Also the larger the arc and more speed you carry the harder it is to maintain grip. Hence zipping through a quick little turn it is easy to pull 1.0G in most car, but take that same car in a long 600ft diameter arc at speed and that is where you separate the men from the boys. Further you get from the center of the circle the more the car will try and pull away because you can increase the speed. I fully understand this write is about coil overs and there is a lot of good information, but the title is a bit misleading. I just don't want readers to drop big money on something and expect to be zipping around Corvettes and Vipers without having all the info.

edit: If you ever do it the math formula is Velocity squared (in Meters/sec) divided by radius (meters) = Lateral acceleration. the standard size circle is 600ft diameter but it is pretty linear so in theory a 300ft diameter would net virtually the same results but that is a pretty tight turning radius. Give it a try in a parking lot sometime, it's a lot of fun. All you need is 300 feet of string or rope and some chalk. Have someone stand in a fixed point with the string, walk to the other end with the chalk and make a circle on the ground. instant skid pad.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

The 1.05g of grip in the graphic is a 200+ feet left hander, with none-stop-car-limit-testing turn and im SURE that give a very good idea of the actual skidpad number.

Anyway, that was the last time i post numbers on anything in this forum.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

Poje said:


> The 1.05g of grip in the graphic is a 200+ feet left hander, with none-stop-car-limit-testing turn and im SURE that give a very good idea of the actual skidpad number.
> 
> Anyway, that was the last time i post numbers on anything in this forum.


And I'm sure it doesn't, but if that is what you want to believe then have at it. If you really think a couple of bolt on mods put your Cruze in super car territory in the handling department then I will never convince you otherwise. You can feel free to post numbers but don't think a smart phone app is as good as the actual test.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Delete this Thread plz, thx.


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