# check engine and def limp mode



## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

So the countdown began this morning with the message that the def is bad, 30 minutes later the countdown disappeared and only the check engine light stays on. Passed by the dealer but they're unable to take in today but the tech told me that probably is a faulty def sensor on the exhaust line. **** I have only 35K km on it and already a bad sensor. Def was always purchased from GM and checked the level that seems ok and dic shows ok also. My question is if the sensors located on the exhaust line are covered by the emissions warranty that is longer than the 60K miles warranty?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

def sensor is emissions


im not aware of a def quality sensor in this car

theres probably a output nox sensor that is reading the regen results and sending info to the computer that the exhaust is bad...caused by either faulty output nox sensor or related wiring or bad def that is not allowing the regen to happen properly

theyll test the def quality with a refractor, test the volume that the def pump is producing...if those are good, check the nox sensor

i fully eggspected the emissions to be the weak point of the car, so far that is true.


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

Hope not, dealer told me just to drive normally and after a couple of days and it will reset the error by itself. Don't know if topping the def tank could help. Now I'm driving and kind of waiting for the check engine to go off and scared to see the bad def error and limp mode. If it's the sensor hope it will not fail each 35K.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Having the same problem, Car has been in the shop for 3 weeks now. Had to bring it back twice. Here's what they will probably do to you. Step one is to blame it on any DEF fluid other than AC Delco, As if their urea and water is better than someone else's urea and water. Then when it happens again they will shot gun it with a NOx sensor or two. Then they will change the DEF injector, Then they will call in a field service rep. That's where I am now. It is warranty but its costing me money because the gas burning Cruze they gave me only gets 33 MPG average. Very frustrating. I hope they will change the software to raise the tolerances. Its a stupid system.


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

If the car is in Limp mode then you cant just keep driving it around. Acceleration is limited, max speed is limited, etc. 
Just take the car back and tell them it has no power and you feel it is unsafe to drive. They will take it in and run diagnostic work on it from there and give you a rental. 
I had to do it when my check engine light came on and had a sensor go bad. Car drove fine but I wanted it fixed asap.:tongue:


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Seems like there's a small handful of cars with this type of issue. I wonder if ultimately the issue gets traced to the same root cause.


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

One thing for sure it's very frustrating because the car is driven in the ideal conditions 90% highway driving. My check engine is still even if started the car many times since the first error message. They told me to drive normally and sometimes a sensor fails and reset by itself that I understand but if it happens each two weeks I'll let it to the dealer to get it fix.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Yes, Its really burning my biscuits. Running it hard can clear it but it keeps coming back.


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## Nuke108 (Sep 1, 2014)

I am having the exact same problem with mine. It only has 350 miles on it and the light stays lit. Already been down the switch out the "bad def " road and told its possibly a sensor. Next step is tomorrow morning I drop it off. This is my first ever new car purchase too. I did a lot of research and I bought this car because I wanted reliability and longevity. The def system really worried me from the early stages of research. It seems like the EPA is putting such a stranglehold on the automakers here in the states so I can't imagine seeing a lot more of these cars if they don't find a way to make the threshold a little less sensitive.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

The DEF system is just too complex to be reliable. This message is a anti tamper mechanism. It assumes we are too cheap to buy DEF fluid and we put straight water in the tank. A system this complex and unreliable should not put the car into a countdown to death. This is my first diesel with a DEF system. I was worried about the DPF but that seems to be OK. Its the DEF system that will kill this car. The only up side is that its not an isolated incident ( though that's what the dealers like to tell you) hopefully they will come up with a fix.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Scott M. said:


> A system this complex and unreliable should not put the car into a countdown to death.


thank the govt for that

on our trucks we are allowed by the computer to clear the codes x amount of times without fixing (to get the truck to repair destination presumably)....

but go past x, the truck goes into govt derate, basically 5 mph


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Scott M. said:


> The DEF system is just too complex to be reliable. I was worried about the DPF but that seems to be OK. Its the DEF system that will kill this car. The only up side is that its not an isolated incident ( though that's what the dealers like to tell you) hopefully they will come up with a fix.


the thing is, the def and dpf are intertwined

when the techs question the def quality, its just to get baseline...like troubleshooting for your tv that wont work....IS IT PLUGGED IN?...eliminate the simple and obvious and move up from there

in my years with def, ive yet to see def quality an issue, nor has any field mechanic that ive asked, but you have to eliminate it as a possibility


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

seems all the issues are from cars <3mos old


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

boraz said:


> seems all the issues are from cars <3mos old


Hmm, perhaps the first batch(es) got a better going over before they shipped, and now GM is back to it's usual, "Enough bolts are in place, ship it" attitude?


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

I agree, I had a sensor issue early on and now everything is fine. I also believe all the CEL and DEF warnings are all emissions related and it is a complicated system that may not leave the factory perfect. I don't know how they could test each unit to ensure it functions properly. Maybe we are kind of a test group of early CTD owners. Hang in and find a good dealer, once everything works you will be happy with your CTD.


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## Su8pack1 (Apr 17, 2014)

In 3 months and 3200 miles we've had 2 engine light on. 1st was 22FA for NOX sensor (dealer cleaned it and still Ok), 2nd was PO133 for 02 Sensor (I reset it and it has not come back yet).


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

I think also that it's a pretty complicated system and the problems will occur around the emissions system. Back from the dealer and it was a nox sensor that gave the error. They reset it and ordered a new one with the little electronic module attached to it. Once in the garage I asked them the check the def since the "bad def error" and def was fine but the tank was almost empty but not enough to trigger the low level sensor. Then spoke with the tech's and they noticed that the nox error is triggered almost always when the def tank is low...maybe what's happening is that when the def tank is almost empty some air or bubbles pass through the the def injector on a period of time and at this precise moment no more def is injected creating sooth on the nox sensor and triggering the errors. Didn't take any chance and bought some fresh def from gm and filled it up. Hope the errors will calm down if not I'll have a new nox sensor waiting for me at the dealer.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

bigluke said:


> I think also that it's a pretty complicated system and the problems will occur around the emissions system. Back from the dealer and it was a nox sensor that gave the error. They reset it and ordered a new one with the little electronic module attached to it. Once in the garage I asked them the check the def since the "bad def error" and def was fine but the tank was almost empty but not enough to trigger the low level sensor. Then spoke with the tech's and they noticed that the nox error is triggered almost always when the def tank is low...maybe what's happening is that when the def tank is almost empty some air or bubbles pass through the the def injector on a period of time and at this precise moment no more def is injected creating sooth on the nox sensor and triggering the errors. Didn't take any chance and bought some fresh def from gm and filled it up. Hope the errors will calm down if not I'll have a new nox sensor waiting for me at the dealer.


prior to the issue/during the issue, your DIC read what? def level or ok or x%?


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

prior the issue dic showed def level ok....during issue dic showed def level ok...after the issue with filled def tank dic showing def level ok....lol


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

bigluke said:


> prior the issue dic showed def level ok....during issue dic showed def level ok...after the issue with filled def tank dic showing def level ok....lol


10-4

i had been waiting for my def level to change on the DIC, it had been on ok for too long...so i started pouring in a box of def (2.5g iirc), got ~90% of it in there...was curious if my level sensor was off, or it just wasnt time yet...

gotta leave the car with them later for new trunk switch and the oil pan heater cord recall


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

boraz said:


> 10-4
> 
> i had been waiting for my def level to change on the DIC, it had been on ok for too long...so i started pouring in a box of def (2.5g iirc), got ~90% of it in there...was curious if my level sensor was off, or it just wasnt time yet...
> 
> gotta leave the car with them later for new trunk switch and the oil pan heater cord recall


Same thing here , all the 2.5G fit in, I don't know, maybe some kind of crystallization is building up in the def tank and interfere with the low level sensor or blocking the filter before the injectors if there's a filter. If many of us having this issue then some investigation hopefully will be done with a fix. My trunk switch was replaced also but didn't know about the oil pan recall. ..are the 2014 also included on the recall?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

bigluke said:


> Same thing here , all the 2.5G fit in, I don't know, maybe some kind of crystallization is building up in the def tank and interfere with the low level sensor or blocking the filter before the injectors if there's a filter. If many of us having this issue then some investigation hopefully will be done with a fix. My trunk switch was replaced also but didn't know about the oil pan recall. ..are the 2014 also included on the recall?


Mine wasn't. I was pretty sure that the cord was for the non-diesel models.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

bigluke said:


> Same thing here , all the 2.5G fit in, I don't know, maybe some kind of crystallization is building up in the def tank and interfere with the low level sensor or blocking the filter before the injectors if there's a filter. If many of us having this issue then some investigation hopefully will be done with a fix. My trunk switch was replaced also but didn't know about the oil pan recall. ..are the 2014 also included on the recall?





Tomko said:


> Mine wasn't. I was pretty sure that the cord was for the non-diesel models.


im not aware of a def filter existing

i ran my vin thru a recall thing that was posted on here, checked out clear

wehn i went for my oil change 2wks ago, they said the oil pan heater cord recall was on the screen for my car, told them i didnt have time and i just wouldnt use it til it got looked at


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

grs1961 said:


> Hmm, perhaps the first batch(es) got a better going over before they shipped, and now GM is back to it's usual, "Enough bolts are in place, ship it" attitude?


I've wondered that too, especially given the good luck I've had with mine over 81K miles.


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

The funny part is that my service rep just called and said "as the problem was your def level too low and we did service it some charges will apply "...you can't imagine how happy I was....#[email protected]%!!..lol..I said what no way...I made pictures of my dic showing the bad def error with cluster engine light and def warning lit as proof and when left the car at the dealer I let it run to be sure the check engine is still there. Then I spoken with the tech working on my car who showed my the error in it was the nox sensor, he reset it and looked after it under the car and brought me the car back after checking the def was ok. I asked to buy the 2.5G of def and helped the tech put it in. So how some charges can apply. ...completely stupid as the service rep told me before I left the dealer that he will order a new nox sensor. ...come on what's going on here...


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

Unfortunately my check engine light came back thursday. Called back the dealer and scheduled me monday for the check up again. I can say it now...the cruze is the car that has more visits to the dealer than all my new cars combined. So on monday they replace the oil pan cord that I received the GM recall and reset the nox sensor before ordering a new one, definitively another visit to replace the sensor when they'll receive it.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Sounds like they are running the same plays out of their playbook with you as they are with me. DEF fluid, Nox sensor, Next they will tell you that the DEF injector is clogged and needs to be replaced, then they will tell you its the DPF and it has to be pulled off the assembly line and its going to take two weeks. I hope you like your loaner vehicle because you are going to be in it for a while. Insist that they drive the car for at least 100 miles before giving it back to you. That will save some trips to the dealer. I hope the DPF fixes my problem but I am not overly optimistic.


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

lol hope not. Belive it or not check engine light shut off itself 2 hrs before my dealer appointment. .haha...I named it the yo-yo engine light. Called the dealer and told them that I'll bring it in with the engine light lit...assuming in the next week.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

That's one of the problems with this issue. The car starts the countdown to death and then for no apparent reason it stops the countdown. I have been able to make it go away by running it hard for 30 miles and sometimes it goes away on its own and sometimes it doesn't. I have only got to the 55 mph level once and it went away on its own. never actually got it to go into limp mode.


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

I might have join the party late and completely missed something, but isn't the DEF tank 4.5 gals? In my mind adding 90% of a 2.5 gallon jug doesn't mean "low" to me. IMO the DEF gauge has proved to be quite accurate, the only caveat being when it is extremely cold outside and the fluid starts to freeze.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

plasticplant said:


> I might have join the party late and completely missed something, but isn't the DEF tank 4.5 gals? In my mind adding 90% of a 2.5 gallon jug doesn't mean "low" to me. IMO the DEF gauge has proved to be quite accurate, the only caveat being when it is extremely cold outside and the fluid starts to freeze.


I was under the impression it was 4.5 gallons, but the other day while looking up another fluid capacity, I found out it is actually 4.9 gallons. Either way, you should easily be able to fit 2.5 gallons in when the car displays 35% (the highest point it displays a status other than "OK") DEF level on the DIC. 

65% of 4.9 gal. = 3.185 gal.


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