# Do Not Swap Control Modules



## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

So, what happens when somebody's IP cluster (gauge cluster) flakes out? Or they need a new EBCM? This looks like a major headache 5-6 years down the road from now.


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## kkilburn (Mar 1, 2011)

sciphi said:


> So, what happens when somebody's IP cluster (gauge cluster) flakes out? Or they need a new EBCM? This looks like a major headache 5-6 years down the road from now.


I had my gauge cluster replaced. I had a large scratch on it when it was delivered, so I had the dealership replace it. They had to replace the whole unit (not just the glass) because the glass is not a seperate piece. No problems with it over 18,000 miles.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

sciphi said:


> So, what happens when somebody's IP cluster (gauge cluster) flakes out? Or they need a new EBCM? This looks like a major headache 5-6 years down the road from now.


A Chevy dealer would have to re-program it for your car, I'm betting, which is why it would be an issue after you are out of warranty if taken it to an independent shop. They won't be able to do it.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

UpstateNYBill said:


> A Chevy dealer would have to re-program it for your car, I'm betting, which is why it would be an issue after you are out of warranty if taken it to an independent shop. They won't be able to do it.


I would guess that the independent shops that spend the $8-10 K for a really good diagnostic system will spend the money to be able to program these modules. It will quite another thing going to a junk yard and getting a module to do an R&R yourself. Just Google "*GM Global Architecture electrical system*" if you want to know more about the system.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm seriously doubting the claim that units would be damaged. This looks like another annoying way GM sucks you into getting your car serviced by a dealer. If there are measures taken to prevent swapping an ECM from one 1.4L Cruze to another, there are some serious issues there and possibly even a lawsuit. There is absolutely no benefit to having that "security feature" and it is anti-competitive with regard to alternate repair shops.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...it's a "*throw away*" world (non-repariable) when it comes to electronics these days: cell-phones, digital cameras, computers, car electronics, etc.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

sciphi said:


> So, what happens when somebody's IP cluster (gauge cluster) flakes out? Or they need a new EBCM? This looks like a major headache 5-6 years down the road from now.


I had a car with an electronic gauge cluster that "flaked out" after warranty. Dealer wanted $250 for the part, plus labor to R&R it. No warranty on the fix and no return on the new part if that didn't fix it. The part was the speedometer, tachometer, and odometer gauge. The problem started out flipping randomly between English and metric and worsened until it was only displaying parts of digits. I fixed the problem by trading it in on a Mazda (i.e. throwing it away).


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm seriously doubting the claim that units would be damaged. This looks like another annoying way GM sucks you into getting your car serviced by a dealer. If there are measures taken to prevent swapping an ECM from one 1.4L Cruze to another, there are some serious issues there and possibly even a lawsuit. There is absolutely no benefit to having that "security feature" and it is anti-competitive with regard to alternate repair shops.


Hey, if Microsoft can do it, why can't GM?


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## CHUV (Jun 25, 2011)

sciphi said:


> So, what happens when somebody's IP cluster (gauge cluster) flakes out? Or they need a new EBCM? This looks like a major headache 5-6 years down the road from now.


I had my EBCM changed. Just a matter of calibrating and reprogramming it to communicate with the car. Problem is, as mentioned, you need a GM dealer to do it. It's just another tool used by auto companies to try and get you to come to them rather than DIY or an independent shop. 


Sent from my Autoguide iPad app


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## pntballer925 (Feb 27, 2011)

all these things need reprogramming when being installed using a special scan tool. Even the motor for the power steering has a chip in it that needs to be reprogrammed when being replaced. its ridiculous


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I sure hope there's an aftermarket solution to programming those modules. I'm not skillful enough with computers, but somebody who is could make a mint from developing a non-GM solution to it.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

sciphi said:


> I sure hope there's an aftermarket solution to programming those modules. I'm not skillful enough with computers, but somebody who is could make a mint from developing a non-GM solution to it.


Why not? If the tuners can tweak the ECM and TCM, I'm sure they can come up with the code stream to validate a new controller also. It's just a matter of need. I'm wondering if GM has gone to the trouble of doing software patents on all of the code that resides in all of those controllers. If so, then the issue gets a lot more complex (and possibly expensive). 

I'm going out to the garage and make sure the tires on my bicycle are up to pressure! Gas went up 40 cents per gallon today.

*UPDATE:* I have since learned that for now, you will have to have a subscription to GM to be able to get some of the security keys necessary to swap some of these controllers.

*UPDATE #2*: GM is referring to the GM Global A Architecture as its Intellectual Property. In my old profession, that means it has been patented and will be proprietary and licensed. While that is not a bad thing necessarily, it means that GM will be controlling it. They are a core member of Autosar, the organization that is developing standards for vehicle networking. The nine core members of Autosar are the big names in vehicle manufacturing, so expect more of this in our cars.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

CHUV said:


> I had my EBCM changed. Just a matter of calibrating and reprogramming it to communicate with the car. Problem is, as mentioned, you need a GM dealer to do it. It's just another tool used by auto companies to try and get you to come to them rather than DIY or an independent shop.


It's also done for theft protection. You can't just take these parts from a stolen/stripped car and sell them to put in another car. 

Even my wife's '05 Equinox has some degree of this built in. Her 6 disc cd changer went bad, and I could have got another radio from a junkyard but then I'd have to take it to Chevy to reprogram it as it's tied to the vin of the car. I looked at other alternatives such as aftermarket (Best Buy) but it would have been about the same cost (about $400) after all the extra harnesses needed to retain most if not all the features such as steering wheel controls. In the end, I just ordered the actual 6 disc changer part from replacementradios.com for about $100 and fixed it myself.


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## David1 (Sep 16, 2011)

This is nothing new. The German cars have been doing this for years and is old hat. Most anything that is electronic and on the can bus (comminication area network) has to be programmed and then coded to work with each individual car and parts will not work from one car to another. Indy shops will be able to do it, they will just need to subscribe to GM to be able download the software to the car. BMW charges indy's almost 1500 a month to be able to download to the cars. There are advantages though. The cars can be updated to fix bugs in systems or make feature updates just like the driver info center in model year 11-12 which is just a software root code update. My BMW's have had had some nice free updates to the Idrive stuff when in for service and having updates done. Can bus is great once you understand what and why. The next step in this tech with car to car connectivity and control is just around the corner also.


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## tbill (Dec 4, 2011)

keep in mind, these modules control stuff, by that i mean, most all of your switches in a car aren't 'hard wired' to the device they are supposed to control, the switches are now inputs to a module that usually talks to another module to see if the parameters are acceptable for the task you have requested by using the switch.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Here's some more information on the security aspect of all of these controllers and why it exists. I suspect this may have something to do with some folks reporting a lower insurance rate on the Cruze. 

Global A Electrical Architecture Security Overview - GM Techlink

Here's an old article from 2004 that lays out the basic direction for GM in this area.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_6_184/ai_n6080809/?tag=content;col1

Also, AC Delco has a slew of training courses for this new architecture, so if a dealer service department can't diagnose your car, it's likely they haven't spent the time and money to train someone. 

I'm still looking for more information on GM's Global A Electrical Architecture, but that may take a while as I'm thinking that it is pretty proprietary and they don't want that out in public, if they can help it.


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## weimerrj (Dec 4, 2011)

And here I was thinking it would be fairly easy to swap out my standard HVAC controls to automatic and change my radio to the factory touch screen nav since they are all distributed processors and the connections should be nothing more than CAN bus and maybe a couple extra sensors/associated modules.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

weimerrj said:


> And here I was thinking it would be fairly easy to swap out my standard HVAC controls to automatic and change my radio to the factory touch screen nav since they are all distributed processors and the connections should be nothing more than CAN bus and maybe a couple extra sensors/associated modules.


No Plug And Play, or USB architecture, in this environment. Quite frankly, anything that makes my car harder to steal is a good thing. Global A and a Concealed Carry Permit for me.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Great, this is going to work out really well in 6-7 years when corrosion and rust start playing havoc with the grounds and wiring. I hope GM has put in some backups WHEN the primary wiring gets wet, salty, and starts to corrode.


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## Jhorutz (Sep 8, 2020)

Jim Frye said:


> Here's something I saw on GM Techlink. I know that Cruzen are not getting old enough to be getting out of warranty yet, but if someone takes one for service other than a dealership, this is worth noting.
> 
> _*"Do not swap control modules. It's a word of caution that bears repeating as more new GM models are introduced with the Global Architecture electrical system.
> 
> ...


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## Jhorutz (Sep 8, 2020)

Can I swap a fuel pump control module


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## Mrdee863 (Mar 29, 2021)

Can some answer this , Install a new ECM AN BCM an now the past 2 bcm that have been installed can’t be programmed what can be causing this issue someone plz help


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