# Nitto NT90W



## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

Nitto has officially released it's first snow tire.

NT90W


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

That looks like a great ice and hard-packed snow tire. In those pictures, it does not show much void area for snow/slush traction.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

I think it will be more like the Blizzak WS70 Vs say a Firestone Winterforce type tire, But I agree this is more of a packed/dry snow type tire. I'll probably get them next year so let you guys know then


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Looks pretty good. No mention of rolling resistance, though, which is pretty surprising in this day and age. They have 215/55-17, the stock Eco size.

I had great results with my last snow tires, Mich X-Ice I2, from a ride/handling/noise/treadwear point of view. I don't think they were the absolute best snow tire available in terms of snow performance, but with all factors considered (not the least of which is the relatively easy winter driving I/most people usually do) they worked out really well. I will probably buy a set of the new X-Ice I3 for my Cruze unless there are significant reviews contradicting this prior to next fall.

After having several sets of noisy tires on various cars, a quiet tire is a big plus for me.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

It's a snow tire, it is going to be really soft. I don't think they would even factor in rolling resistance when designing an actual snow tire. The harder you make the compound the worse it will perform in below freezing temps.

X-Ice is a good all around tire also, just expensive.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Not available in a 16" from what it seems. The only car that will be able to use them is the Eco, but I wouldn't want to be running my Eco wheels during the winter. That's what I bought steelies for.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Not available in a 16" from what it seems. The only car that will be able to use them is the Eco, but I wouldn't want to be running my Eco wheels during the winter. That's what I bought steelies for.


I got some factory defect 17" LTZ (think they are LTZ, ones pictured below) wheels for my snows, for $250 figure I couldn't go wrong.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

NBrehm said:


> It's a snow tire, it is going to be really soft. I don't think they would even factor in rolling resistance when designing an actual snow tire. The harder you make the compound the worse it will perform in below freezing temps.
> 
> X-Ice is a good all around tire also, just expensive.


Somehow Nokian made the new Hakka R2 have a shorter ice stopping distance and better rolling resistance than the original R. I have a set of the R's on the Cruze right now. Those things live up to their billing as great LRR snow tires. Great snow traction and only a 1-2 MPG hit on dry pavement. For folks like me who drive a lot through rapidly changing winter conditions, LRR snow tires do make sense.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

I lost about the same from my crappy firestones, that would really be about the net gain between an LRR and a standard tire, 2-3MPG. So that is about what I would expect from any snow tire as long as the overall weight was the same as it's counter part


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

As you said, the general principle behind the design of snow tires tends to make them a higher rolling resistance "type" of tire then an all season. Having said that, there are continuing improvements to tread design, tread compounds and carcass construction that have benefitted recent snow tire designs. Most of these improvements are taking place in all tires, so it is a relative improvement.

Rolling resistance is one of the reasons I liked the X-Ice I2; it seemed to have excellent rolling resistance characteristics which paid off with an extremely smooth quiet ride and absolutely excellent tread wear. I drove that set of tires for four winters as well as the majority of the last two summers (I know, I know, but I was planning to sell the car, etc., etc.) and when I sold the car they still had geat looking tread, probably about half of what they started with.

Regarding tread compounds, the trick is not to use a "soft" compound but to use a compound that does not get hard at low temperatures. A compound that is more stable across temperature extremes will have better grip in the cold while having more control and less wear in warmer temperatures (and overall). This is one area where advances have significantly improved winter tires in recent years. The days of winter tires "burning off" on a warm spring day are all but behind us.

Since we only get about one month of really "hot" weather up here, some lazier people are just putting snow tires on their cars and leaving them on year round. I don't agree with this since they will not perform as well as an all season and will wear faster, but it can be done. As I stated, I drove quite a bit on those Michelins right through the two past sumers and they worked and lasted just fine. Just for the record, I do not intend to repeat that! The car was old and ready to move on, and I didn't want to invest in a new set of tires for the owner-to-be.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

All I'm saying is every car snow tire I have seen is a soft compound tire, you can normally compress the tread with 1 finger. But yes, i agree it is 100% to keep the tread from becoming hard and/or brittle in frigid temps. I just don't think, much like summer LRR tires, that you can reduce rolling resistance and not hurt grip. If you can it is beyond my knowledge how since they are opposing forces. I'm still firmly in the corner of I would much rather have a tire that inspires confidence in what it is supposed to do than 2 more MPG, unless of course MPG is the main goal. I just don't see an LRR snow tire being as good in the snow as a traditional tire, but maybe I'm wrong. What's next LRR braking systems? That is essentially a side effect of the tires.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

When I worked for Transport Canada, one of the Engineers was doing a study on LRR all season tires. These tires were tested in a lab on a tire dyno for rolling resistance at various loads and tire pressures. The tires, all the same size and mounted on the same wheels, were then track tested on the same car. Wet and dry braking, wet and dry cornering grip, and coast down measurements were all done.

When all the data was tabulated it became very clear that there was no direct relationship between grip related performance and rolling resistance. Some tires showed excellent grip and low rolling resistance, others had great rolling resistance results and offered poor grip, and others were notably poor across the board. Their respective manufacturers all claimed the tires to be LRR AS designs, but as of yet there are no standards for rating tires based on rolling resistance.

Having said that, the tire size, the car and the tests were the only constants. Every tire had a different tread design, probably different carcass construction, and most likely a different tread compound.

You _may_ be right; for a given compound formulation and carcass construction, increasing winter grip _may also _mean increasing rolling resistance. The problem when comparing tires is isolating the variables, which is probably impossible unless you are a tire development Engineer prototyping different designs. This is why tire shopping and testing is such a complicated endeavour... and then even if you do come to a conclusion based on testing, those test results are only really valid for that tire in that size on that car in those conditions. There's no guarantee that the best tire for a Camry is the best tire for a Cruze.

A relative situation existed about 12-13 years ago when BFG released their KD and KDW high performance tires (I bought a set of KDWs and then KDs for my Saturn at the time). The compound on the KD was actually harder to the touch, leading most people to believe it would grip less, but it gripped better than the softer KDW. Not a winter tire, I know, but an argument all the same for softer vs. harder tread grip levels.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

You are comparing apples to apples though, they were all LRR tires and I am sure tread design had a lot to do with the grip differences. I'm talking about LRR Vs non LRR tires, I've driven on the fuelmax's and Ecopias and neither of them really compare to a non LRR tire on anything except clean dry roads. You can absolutely have LRR tires that outperform each other, but I am willing to bet you can take 2 virtually identical tires, one with an LRR compound and one with a standard all season and get more grip out of the standard tire. I just do not see any way that you can reduce rolling resistance and maintain grip levels since they are opposing forces. Reducing friction reduces grip. And I'll also add as the temp goes down my LRR tires have become more and more squirrly on even clean roads.

it is just my preference, I prefer performance over the extra economy, I like confidence in my tires and feel they are the single most important part of any car, so in the end I am going to sacrifice that economy for that surefooted feeling. Others are welcome to not agree and go with what is important to them.


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