# Service Exhaust Fluid CEL, What to expect?



## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

This morning at 5,700 miles, a CEL appeared and the message "Service Exhaust Fluid System" came on with the dreaded mileage countdown.

What is the prognosis for this? 

It's been around 0-10F in the mornings lately, but I keep the car in an attached garage so it starts off a bit warmer before seeing the real cold air.

my CTD has been a great car so far, but this mileage countdown nonsense is giving me a bad feeling.


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

I think MiltownSHO did a write-up on this a month or two ago. It sounds like you get pretty regular messages. There should be no possible way to even hit the reduced engine speeds, as you are given ample warning as to how many miles you have left. I personally would not run it much longer after I got the first warning, as it would just bug me. Also, at 5,700k miles, you must have had a DEF tank that was half full when you left the lot. I'm at 12,000 miles on mine and still have over 30% remaining in the tank.

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-c...03674-so-i-ran-my-def-tank-empty-picture.html


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

plasticplant said:


> I think MiltownSHO did a write-up on this a month or two ago. It sounds like you get pretty regular messages. There should be no possible way to even hit the reduced engine speeds, as you are given ample warning as to how many miles you have left. I personally would not run it much longer after I got the first warning, as it would just bug me. Also, at 5,700k miles, you must have had a DEF tank that was half full when you left the lot. I'm at 12,000 miles on mine and still have over 30% remaining in the tank.
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-c...03674-so-i-ran-my-def-tank-empty-picture.html


It doesn't look like this is the Low DEF message or the Poor DEF Quality Message. It says, "Service Exhaust Fluid System." It's still doing the countdown, but the solution would be to see the dealer. There may be a faulty part on the DEF system (sensor, pump, plugged line...) that needs to be addressed under warranty. With only 5700 miles, this is probably still within the window to have the "sat on the lot to long and the emissions system isn't happy about it" syndrome that we've seen from so many new CTDs.

Cetane, is the Check Engine Light on along with this message?


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Yes, check engine light came on first, moments later the DEF warning light and a message on the DIC that says "Service Exhaust Fluid" 

Car was built 3rd week of June, I bought the end of October, is that too long for it to sit?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I don't recall anybody posting about this particular error before. Cetane, please keep us posted as to what the dealer says and what the problem/solution is?


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Will do, dropping it off tomorrow AM, but

Going tonight to dealer to see what I can trade for, 250 mile limit for CEL is not why I purchased a new car, what were they thinking?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Man some of you people must be made of money if you can trade brand new cars at the blink of an eye! 

Good luck


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Nope, can't afford to have it go to 4mph by-design in the middle of frozen nowhere at 1am Sunday morning. We always have 1 car that is reliable, I don't consider this one as such, should have read the owner's manual better before purchase.


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## au201 (May 18, 2013)

Cetane said:


> Nope, can't afford to have it go to 4mph by-design in the middle of frozen nowhere at 1am Sunday morning. We always have 1 car that is reliable, I don't consider this one as such, should have read the owner's manual better before purchase.


Soooo you had one problem and you're deeming it not reliable enough to own? And you get a countdown that im assuming is long enough to get it into a dealer or at least a safe place. 

To each their own I suppose 

Edit: sorry that seems a little rude. Not my intention. Point is many cars prove very reliable after one or two problems in the beginning of i were you I wouldn't dump it so quick. 


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

got the same message an ended up being exhaust temp sensor #3. had nothing to do with exhaust fluid system ,it seems to be a message that covers several problems. also had mileage countdown.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

the mileage countdown starts over after key cycle, you will never see 4 mph restriction unless you keep driving an not shut it off. drove mine for a month waiting for part to show up at dealer.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Cetane said:


> Yes, check engine light came on first, moments later the DEF warning light and a message on the DIC that says "Service Exhaust Fluid"
> 
> Car was built 3rd week of June, I bought the end of October, is that too long for it to sit?


It's not as long as some have been, but 4 months is a while, if you think of the life a car lives on the lot: being started and maybe idled a while to rearrange the lot or clear snow, run and shut down just long enough to get it out of the way of another car, rarely getting the engine fully warmed, RPMs up, or run under load, etc. This exhaust system relies on getting the exhaust temps up to keep the sensors clean and in working order. So, if it's run in undesirable conditions for months and rarely, if ever, gets those high exhaust temps to clean it out, it gets a little grumpy. Most people on here who have had early (pre 10,000 mile) problems with the emissions systems have had long trouble-free stretches after getting that problem corrected and putting on some good highway miles.

I could also envision an issue with old (4 months on the lot + 3 months since purchase + the time it sat in storage prior to the initial fill) or degraded DEF crystallizing and setting the message. Since the DEF system runs underneath the car, I could also see damage from winter road debris or bumps and potholes jarring a plug, line, or wire loose being a cause. Knowing the particular OBD code for the CEL might lead quickly to more answers.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Dealer is scanning it now.

Mileage to death march is not resetting, 30 miles to the first cut, that's after two key cycles.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

au201, been a loyal GM owner for over 25 years, I understand quality, but this nonsense of basically bricking the vehicle is unacceptable because of an emissions issue.


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## BowtieGuy (Jan 4, 2013)

Don't think its just related to your car. There are big rigs that if you don't regen the DPF, it will shut the engine off. End of story, no matter where you are. You have plenty of warning to do a Regen, but if you keep ignoring it, you get a nice little surprise (shuts off every few minutes) until you park and do a parked regen.


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## au201 (May 18, 2013)

Cetane said:


> au201, been a loyal GM owner for over 25 years, I understand quality, but this nonsense of basically bricking the vehicle is unacceptable because of an emissions issue.


I understand completely. It's gotta be annoying. But unfortunately that's the EPA requiring that speed restriction. Not GM. It's sad we have to have all these electronic safety systems like ABS required by law but the EPA can shut down the car basically if a sensor reports a wrong reading...


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Sensor #3 EGT, car quit as the tech drove it in, now it starts and stops running by itself, never made it the count down distance.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

I kept my LLY Duramax because it doesn't have this junk on it, but I figured after 10 years these systems would be more robust so I bought the CTD, hmmmm.

Dealer said this is the first time that they have seen this failure, is it unusual?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I had an issue with EGT sensor #2 at 61K miles. All I had was CEL and I drove it 1000 miles before I got it fixed without issue. I have since gone nearly another 40000 miles trouble free. I agree with others on here that when these cars sit on a lot, get started and shut off, started and shut off, over and over, it can wreak havoc on things. I also agree that with proper diagnosis and repair, once an issue is out of the way, the car will be reliable long term. 

I have 100K miles on my diesel Cruze and it's been a fantastic car. 

I suspect that EGT sensor #3 may not be the real root cause. That should just throw a CEL and nothing more, based on my experience.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Man some of you people must be made of money if you can trade brand new cars at the blink of an eye!
> 
> Good luck


I have a friend that traded a 2012 Cruze in an a 2013 and then on a 2014. He is now about $10K in the hole and he can't afford it. Easy credit can be a bad thing.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

diesel said:


> I had an issue with EGT sensor #2 at 61K miles. All I had was CEL and I drove it 1000 miles before I got it fixed without issue. I have since gone nearly another 40000 miles trouble free. I agree with others on here that when these cars sit on a lot, get started and shut off, started and shut off, over and over, it can wreak havoc on things. I also agree that with proper diagnosis and repair, once an issue is out of the way, the car will be reliable long term.
> 
> I have 100K miles on my diesel Cruze and it's been a fantastic car.
> 
> I suspect that EGT sensor #3 may not be the real root cause. That should just throw a CEL and nothing more, based on my experience.


Agreed, it should not have the authority to put the car into what I observed. And I also agree that the dealer may now become the key factor since they are not familiar with CTDs, just Duramax. I expect this to drag on for some time now, I'll keep you posted.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

diesel said:


> I have a friend that traded a 2012 Cruze in an a 2013 and then on a 2014. He is now about $10K in the hole and he can't afford it. Easy credit can be a bad thing.


Probably step down to a late model used car, I'm not taking on any additional debt.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

If someone is going to have problems because of short tripping, it might be me. My avg speed the last 4 months is 20 something MPH and my mpg avg over the last 3,000 miles is 26mpg to give you an idea the type of driving I've been doing. She just keeps purring right along.... at 18,000mi total. I almost always interrupt the regen the first time but I remember next time I go somewhere and make sure I drive until it finishes which rarely takes longer then my destination anyways. I do tend to get on it regularly so maybe that's what's keeping my sensors cleaner?


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Interesting, is it mostly stop and go to get that MPG? I've been averaging 38mpg in the cold weather on snow tires, but drive it pretty easy.

Any thoughts on the effects of letting it warm up for a few minutes after a cold start?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Cetane said:


> Agreed, it should not have the authority to put the car into what I observed. And I also agree that the dealer may now become the key factor since they are not familiar with CTDs, just Duramax. I expect this to drag on for some time now, I'll keep you posted.


Yes definitely keep me posted on this. Hopefully your dealer reaches out to the GM tech support line. I think they have a bit of a good information database built up by now. 



Cetane said:


> Probably step down to a late model used car, I'm not taking on any additional debt.


Understanding your current frustration, I would highly encourage you to give the car a second chance once they get it sorted. 



KpaxFAQ said:


> If someone is going to have problems because of short tripping, it might be me. My avg speed the last 4 months is 20 something MPH and my mpg avg over the last 3,000 miles is 26mpg to give you an idea the type of driving I've been doing. She just keeps purring right along.... at 18,000mi total. I almost always interrupt the regen the first time but I remember next time I go somewhere and make sure I drive until it finishes which rarely takes longer then my destination anyways. I do tend to get on it regularly so maybe that's what's keeping my sensors cleaner?


I think a conscientious owner does make a difference on these cars. But then again that is true on any car. All need some sort of care and feeding. Ours is just a bit of a different breed. 



Cetane said:


> Interesting, is it mostly stop and go to get that MPG? I've been averaging 38mpg in the cold weather on snow tires, but drive it pretty easy.
> 
> Any thoughts on the effects of letting it warm up for a few minutes after a cold start?


I don't recommend the warmup after a cold start. A cold diesel engine idling can have some incomplete combustion and dilute the oil with fuel. It can also foul the injectors. I have found that driving it medium-hard when cold warms it up quickly and has not had any adverse affects that I have seen in 100K miles. The electric heater and heated seats help take the chill off when starting out.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

bingo.......... as I said exactly the same as mine an once the dealer replaces exhaust temp sensor #3 your car will be back to normal.
I drove mine waiting for part to show up for 4 weeks. I hope you get yours quicker. :smile:

mine had exact same symptoms . let sit for a moment start an drive away with countdown reset.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

when it first happened to me I thought for sure I would have to tow to dealer, then after trying a few times starting the engine would start an run fine an that's when I noticed the countdown would reset. not surprised the car would quit as the tech tried driving it.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Cetane hang in there it really is a good car.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Cetane said:


> au201, been a loyal GM owner for over 25 years, I understand quality, but this nonsense of basically bricking the vehicle is unacceptable because of an emissions issue.


I agree completely, and this is one thing in the back of my mind with these cars. I do not know if the DEF "limp mode" is a regulated law or just GM, but I think it was a terrible overstep on whomever's part to make the car this way over an emissions system failure. People can drive their gas cars around with no catalytic converter forever and just have an annoying CEL on the dash. It does not make much sense to me.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Cetane said:


> au201, been a loyal GM owner for over 25 years, I understand quality, but this nonsense of basically bricking the vehicle is unacceptable because of an emissions issue.


Agree completely, I live in a state with no vehicle inspections or emission testing(only 3 counties that boarder lake Michigan do emission testing). Have a friend with a 2009 chevy truck that's had an emission code for almost 50,000 miles he still has not fixed, doesn't disable the truck at all. 

If this is how the diesels do it, I can see diesels being a huge failure in the USA.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Cetane said:


> Interesting, is it mostly stop and go to get that MPG? I've been averaging 38mpg in the cold weather on snow tires, but drive it pretty easy.
> 
> Any thoughts on the effects of letting it warm up for a few minutes after a cold start?


There's really no use warming up the Diesel Cruze. The engine is so efficient that the engine temp won't start to rise until it's under load. So, the only way you'll get a benefit from running the car to warm up is a small amount of passenger comfort, and maybe clearing light frost, if you have the electric heat assist engaged (by turning the temp knob all the way to hot). Otherwise, there's no benefit to letting it run. They warm up faster if you just get them out on the road. I start mine while I'm turning off the lights and grabbing my briefcase, then within 30 seconds, I'm in the car and in gear. 



KpaxFAQ said:


> If someone is going to have problems because of short tripping, it might be me. My avg speed the last 4 months is 20 something MPH and my mpg avg over the last 3,000 miles is 26mpg to give you an idea the type of driving I've been doing. She just keeps purring right along.... at 18,000mi total. I almost always interrupt the regen the first time but I remember next time I go somewhere and make sure I drive until it finishes which rarely takes longer then my destination anyways. I do tend to get on it regularly so maybe that's what's keeping my sensors cleaner?


I do a fair bit of short-tripping with my Diesel, but it's alternated with a lot of extended highway driving as well. I could spend a few days and never leave my half-square-mile, population 500 town (5-10 trips at 4-6 blocks each per day), but then several days a week, I'll put on 200-500 miles. I've never had any problems related to that, other than seeing reduced fuel economy and more frequent re-gens during spans where I haven't gotten it out on the highway. 

My repair record with the Cruze has been pretty clean, with just a few early-build oversights that were corrected with software updates, and then my one O2 Sensor/EGR incident (under warranty) at 23,000 miles.


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## Tyranttrent (Jul 31, 2014)

diesel said:


> Yes definitely keep me posted on this. Hopefully your dealer reaches out to the GM tech support line. I think they have a bit of a good information database built up by now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong. Turbo chargers, and valves should still be warmed up a bit. I do agree that in the same time you can go over board. Same with shutting them down after a hard hot drive, Let them idle for a short while to ensure lubrication and cool down of the turbo. Going 100k on a diesel without issues is normal no matter how you dice it. Let's see how it is at around 250k when is roughly when the top end should be looked at. Unless however you've neglected your timing belt, which will shorten that life quite a bit. FYI your just about ready for a new timing belt at 150k.keep cruzing!


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Driving away on a stone cold engine at, or below zero, is not something that I can bring myself to do. A short warm-up is a given up here in the rust-belt, either I remote start it from a warm house/office before I get in it, or start it and wait for the defroster to do its job, either way it's not moving for a few minutes. 

My typical week is 30-40 minutes each way, not much stop and go, but no highway, minimum of 300 miles per week, we took it on a 2,000 mile trip last month, no issues, including a 1,250 mile return trip in about a day and a half.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Tyranttrent said:


> Wrong. Turbo chargers, and valves should still be warmed up a bit. I do agree that in the same time you can go over board. Same with shutting them down after a hard hot drive, Let them idle for a short while to ensure lubrication and cool down of the turbo. Going 100k on a diesel without issues is normal no matter how you dice it. Let's see how it is at around 250k when is roughly when the top end should be looked at. Unless however you've neglected your timing belt, which will shorten that life quite a bit. FYI your just about ready for a new timing belt at 150k.keep cruzing!


I am not wrong about this. If you start a modern diesel engine in very cold temps and just let it idle for a long time, you will have incomplete combustion and fuel dilution which causes other problems. Personally, I remote start mine as I am walking up to it and an in gear and driving probably within a minute of starting. That is plenty of time for oil to be fully circulating through the engine. The computer retards boost when things are cold so there are safeguards built in. I will say I am a bit more aggressive than most people would be, but I am not hurting anything by driving the way I do. I would say it's "gentle but firm". It's not like I start the car and then immediately bounce the rev limiter off 5000 RPMs. That would not do the engine any good. It's really all about a reasonable balance. 

Some random articles on cold idling (not specific to our car)

http://alshirawiservice.com/temp/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/The-evils-of-idling-John-Deere.pdf

Idling Diesel Engines Are Costly - Yankton Press & Dakotan: Neighbors

As for going 100K on a diesel engine without issues being normal, I think the correct phrasing would be "should be normal". I think we all know about VW's HPFP failures well before 100K miles. Same with BMWs, among other problems like intake gunking. These problems are well documented online. 

100K miles on this new engine setup is a testament to the quality and design, no matter how you slice it. Chevrolet did a great job.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

I got the service DEF system message. The DEF injector line came off the DEF injector. I personally have had enough emission system related problem to keep me from ever buying another modern diesel of any brand again.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm with Diesel, there's a lot of "Grandpa's advice" when it comes to vehicles that just refuses to die.....Modern lubricants and modern tolerances do not require much of any warm up. That isn't to say it's ready for WOT ice cold but you're safe to drive off asap. In fact you'll warm everything up faster and have less wear then idling ice cold in place warming nothing up. 

My 14.5L CAT diesel at work filled with 8 gallons of 15W-40.....yeah that needs some warming up. It's comparing apples and oranges with the cruze diesel's 4.5quart 5W-30 sump and a load that barely makes the engine work if you take it easy... Even with that CAT first thing I do is set the cruise control for 800-1000rpm's the minute I start it. Idling at 600rpms ice cold is no good.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Cetane said:


> Interesting, is it mostly stop and go to get that MPG? I've been averaging 38mpg in the cold weather on snow tires, but drive it pretty easy.
> 
> Any thoughts on the effects of letting it warm up for a few minutes after a cold start?


Well it's a lot of driving an engine that's not warmed up all the way and yes stop and go. That will all change when I go back to work next week and have a 15 mile freeway drive to work but since I've been off for 3 months it's tons of 5miles or less at a time trips. In the summer I'd probably avg. 30mpg with the same type of driving just from the combo of summer diesel and the engine would warm up much quicker. 

FYI my commute averages 38-40mpg in the summer and 33-35mpg in the winter with snow tires. Lots of grades in the drive, not much of anything is relatively flat.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Frequent 5 mile or less trips would probably be as bad or worse than a 3-5 minute morning warm up, I think we can dismiss either as a cause of what is going on with my car.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Cetane said:


> Frequent 5 mile or less trips would probably be as bad or worse than a 3-5 minute morning warm up, I think we can dismiss either as a cause of what is going on with my car.


Yeah. I definitely don't think the warm-up would cause a problem that sets a CEL. I think where the drivers who commented were going with the idea was that it's neither necessary nor immediately harmful to leave the engine to idle during warm-up. It will increase fuel dilution as mentioned by someone above, but the car can tolerate a certain level of fuel dilution, since the method the car uses for re-gen cycles is also known to cause increased fuel dilution, so idling alone would probably not dilute the fuel to the point of being dangerous unless the warm-up idling was extreme in frequency and duration. On the other hand, doing nothing but idling the car for something in the range of 3-4 months (as might happen to a car that's not frequently test-driven on dealer lots) could easily wreak havoc with the emissions devices. 

The only thing about that warm-up idling that would make me anxious is the possibility of plugging a nearly-full DPF to the point of needing a manual re-gen. However, a couple of us have observed that the vehicle seems to abort remote starts if the DPF is full or the vehicle was parked with an incomplete re-gen. So, it seems even this would not realistically be a problem, as long as the warm-up is done with the remote start rather than with the key in the ignition.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Scott M. said:


> I got the service DEF system message. The DEF injector line came off the DEF injector. I personally have had enough emission system related problem to keep me from ever buying another modern diesel of any brand again.


Was there any collateral damage?


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

No damage. I saw a bunch of white crusty stuff on the underside of the vehicle as well as a tiny puddle in the garage. I was able to fix it myself. The dealer will likely tell you your DEF injector is bad and it is not spraying properly or maybe there was a freeze up in the tank or lines. DEF will freeze because its mostly water. The countdown to death is the real deal breaker here. The system is way to complex to be reliable. Imagine if you were 500 miles from home when this happens. The car wont allow you to get home. This is completely different from the DEF quality poor message. I think this will be easier to fix. This car has too many things that will start a countdown to limp mode. Whether its the EPA or GM its not acceptable. these countdowns should be at least 1000 miles not 100 miles. If they have to have them at all.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

Dealer said car is ready, Exh sensor #3 EGT only, I'm skeptical.

I AGREE 100% with your comment on the countdown to death miles, too harsh of a penalty to deal with on a new car. 

Next few days will be subzero, I am not looking forward to it.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Just speculation here but I think if the EGT sensor is stuck on reading something too high It can prevent the computer from doing regens and maybe it can prevent the DEF system from doing its job. It could be trying to protect itself somehow. I have read on the Dodge forums that guys are experimenting with sims that fake out the EGT sensors to prevent regens then they can remove the DPF on their trucks.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Cetane said:


> Dealer said car is ready, Exh sensor #3 EGT only, I'm skeptical.
> 
> I AGREE 100% with your comment on the countdown to death miles, too harsh of a penalty to deal with on a new car.
> 
> Next few days will be subzero, I am not looking forward to it.


The #3 EGT sensor is for the rear SCR converter and helps determine the amount of DEF fluid required to be injected. Without it the DEF system has to shut down, and sadly they think the whole car too. 

As for the cold, you have nothing to worry about. It has been much much colder where I am at and no DEF issues. Just make sure that your tank in the trunk is not overfilled or it could freeze and then you may have an issue.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Cetane said:


> Dealer said car is ready, Exh sensor #3 EGT only, I'm skeptical.
> :grin:


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

our little diesel falls under latest an greatest emission standards tier 2 bin 5 brought to you by your friends in government not GM. an if you think going back to gas is the answer their not far behind.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

oilburner said:


> our little diesel falls under latest an greatest emission standards tier 2 bin 5 brought to you by your friends in government not GM. an if you think going back to gas is the answer their not far behind.


Yeah I read up on it, the big rigs and other diesels have the same type of countdown as the Cruze does. And I suspect you are right, now that the gas engines are "dirtier" than diesels they will be getting some more emissions upgrades as well.


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## Cetane (Dec 10, 2014)

TDCruze said:


> The #3 EGT sensor is for the rear SCR converter and helps determine the amount of DEF fluid required to be injected. Without it the DEF system has to shut down, and sadly they think the whole car too.
> 
> As for the cold, you have nothing to worry about. It has been much much colder where I am at and no DEF issues. Just make sure that your tank in the trunk is not overfilled or it could freeze and then you may have an issue.


They topped off the DEF as part of the service.


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## twitdit (Aug 23, 2016)

My Cruze goes into the shop for the same problem tomorrow. Code reading says that it is a heater element in the urea tank. So not only do you have to pay to have piss injected into your exhaust, it has to be warm piss. Funny thing is that almost every time I turn the engine off, the slowdown timer resets, so I have never been limited to less than 65 mph for 75 miles. The problem is obviously intermittent and could possibly be a sensor or a communication fault with the ECM. WE shall see.... These other posts are rather dated, so I am curious as to what the other folks' outcomes have been? I will post mine when I am done. Sidenote: I am not going to the dealer--using independent mechanic.


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