# could not duplicate at dealer, here is why....



## 70x7 (Apr 24, 2011)

wow i had no idea...
if all dealerships work like this, that would explain why we had taken our van in several times for the same problem.


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## tbill (Dec 4, 2011)

well, you also have to consider that all tech's aren't created equally. a shop is a really strange dynamic to an extent, the guys with alot of experience/knowledge aren't likely to share that with other guys in the shop, because in theory, knowledge equals power [read that as money making ability]. for example, you bring your car in for something, tech A may have seen the issue 20 times, and has it fixed in 10 minutes, tech B has never run into it, and it took 3 hours to fix it, same utlimate result, but due to differences in training/knowledge/experience, one guy was onto something else productive, while the other was pulling his hair out half a day looking for the cure. and if the guy dispatching the work doesn't know his crews abilities, things get messed up in a hurry.


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

On this note (but this is for Toyota), someone on Priuschat had posted this interview w/a Toyota tech. Story sounds similar to the OP's... :/ 

EV-Talk - Episode 11 - Interview with a Toyota Mechanic - YouTube

Some of the discussion that I saw on Priuschat as a result of it was... interesting. I skimmed some of the YouTube comments and there was a lot of debate too.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...sorry, but the dealership _represents_ GM's _promise_ to correct *warranty* problems. So, _regardless_ of the 'reason', the dealership should be making EVERY effort to actually troubleshoot, diagnose, and repair each customer's complaints. Of course, this _assumes_ (I know, I know) each dealership technician is both trained and competent. That's what ASE-certification is supposed to address.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

The OP's post is not unique to Chevy, so I understand why customers get a great variety of service success. I'd like to ask a few follow ons to the OP. 
What Cruze specific training is available from Chevy to the technicians? 
Who pays for that education? 
How can we owners discover which dealership in our particular area has the best trained/experienced techs? 

It also leads me to another question, but I'm going to open a new thread on it so I don't highjack this one.


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## EcoCruzer (Mar 4, 2011)

Hey tbill;
Thanks for some clarity into the life of a service tech. So as a trained tech, would/do you like the customer passing along information they may have learned (from forums like this and such) about a problem they are having or should we just let you do your own research? I have twice brought info along for the wind noise issue with my car but I feel the service adviser is probably not passing it along. Maybe that is why the issue is not fixed yet. Just wondering if this would help or hinder.


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

I am not a mechanic, however my brother is a tech an has been for over 6 years and they are paid on the same/similar structure. He's a good tech and can turn cars around and make good money, but he's also too nice sometimes. Taking a long time "figuring out why some OCD d*ck is getting a small whistle in the cabin" before saying that the problem could not be replicated. 

Im not saying people don't have legitimate problems or concern. think about this if your boss gave you a job/task and said " do this! Oh and btw we're not paying you for it, you'll either not do it and face possible consequences or make a half-assed pass at it. Or the rare case where you complete it the best of your ability.
End of my rant sorry if anybody takes offense.


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## tbill (Dec 4, 2011)

Eco, it depends on the advisor and the tech really. some dealership personel seem to want to dis-regard customers research [i.e. the customer bringing in a TSB], or hearing about what the customer read on the web.

what a good tech should do is asses the info that's available, and go from there. in all reality, part of the diagnostic process is looking for TSB's, and i think alot of guys just skip this step for some reason. ****, i see it where i work, so i'm sure it happens alot.

not that it's easy to do, [because there are so many], but once you find a good advisor and a good tech at a dealer, ask for him/her whenever you go in for service.


as far as training goes, not really anything cruze specific, but i can tell you there is a boat load of required training. the only down side of the training, depending on the size of the dealership, only one or two tech's have to have alot of training, it's a strange set up really. as far as finding out who is trained at the dealership, i don't know how you'd go about that really. in our place, all we have in that regard are our ASE 'diploma's' hanging on the wall of the write up area, with GM training we used to get an updated 'diploma' after each training course we took, they no longer do this, so really nothing to hang on the wall to indicate to anyone that 'hey, i have all this training'.

the funny thing is though, for the most part, each car model usually ends up with a set of issues over time [as in, the same thing goes 'wrong' on each one eventually], so once we see enough of them, we know right where to look to repair it.

also, the dealership pays fo the training. some of them cover the cost of ASE tests, and some don't.

i also think that things would be better if we had more than 18 minutes to diagnose issues under warranty, 'cause that's usually all we get paid on a warranty issue.

as i say, just trying to shed some light on how/why it happens.


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## BucaMan (Mar 22, 2011)

I guess it may depend on the size of the dealership, but how are the techs arranged? Are there teams for different lines of cars, or teams arranged by functional area (powertrain, electronics, brakes, transmission, oil change)? What career progression do techs travel through as they gain skill and training?


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## CHUV (Jun 25, 2011)

This is why I take a guy from management (ie. service manager) in the car with me and replicate the issue for him myself or have him do it with me in the car. No denying things this way and the tech can get right to work. Unless he wants to double check for himself.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

BucaMan said:


> I guess it may depend on the size of the dealership, but how are the techs arranged? Are there teams for different lines of cars, or teams arranged by functional area (powertrain, electronics, brakes, transmission, oil change)? What career progression do techs travel through as they gain skill and training?


It's different between brands and dealerships. If I ever had to work in a dealership it would be Lexus. Their progression and organization reminds me a lot of the military.


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## chrisholland03 (Oct 13, 2011)

I know all service departments are not the same, but mention of Lexus reminded me of a couple of things. 

At least locally, you don't get to pull into the Lexus service bay without an appt and a credit card on file. 

I have a buddy that worked as a service adviser for 2 of the 3 local Toyota dealerships. His eyes were opened to many of the things mentioned here. Apparently all 3 local dealerships push the 'menu' approach for routine maintenance -- there is no a la carte and customers end up getting/paying for services their cars don't need. He says the reasoning he was given behind this was to compensate the dealership and the techs for the extra time needed to assess and fix vehicle concerns. So they end up having a reputation of being super reliable, responsive to customer concerns, but expensive.


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

I have also heard that if you are a good tech/mechanic and you can fix the car quicker than the service adviser said it is supposed to take, you are supposed to sit on the car until the allotted time is up. I don't know. That is the hearsay I was told by someone that is a tech in another field other than autos. I always thought working on cars was a great job. I guess that is my shadetree viewpoint not having to deal with the politics of the "system".


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## tbill (Dec 4, 2011)

BucaMan said:


> I guess it may depend on the size of the dealership, but how are the techs arranged? Are there teams for different lines of cars, or teams arranged by functional area (powertrain, electronics, brakes, transmission, oil change)? What career progression do techs travel through as they gain skill and training?



to be honest, i am not sure how other dealership's train their tech's as far as if they have an organised approach. where i am, it seems to be more of a 'well, you guys know you have all this training to do, so have at it' type of thing.

also where i work, no one really specialises in one area of repair, we all do everything, kinda, i say that because i am the only one that does auto/manual transmissions, and for the most part am the only one that does differential repairs. [we are a relatively small dealership]

like i said earlier, there is a boat load of training, and there are 13 different catagories to be trained in [some have overlapping courses, mostly in the form of electrical courses], alot of the courses are web based, some are live broadcasts, and some are actual 'hands on' courses.

to give an even better idea of the amount of training, i looked at my 'transcript' this morning, i am 100% in all catagories and have 439 training courses to my credit [ these are 'active' courses going back to 2000], and i have another 200 to my credit that are 'in active',[ this goes back to 1989] i also spent 21 days last year at hands on courses, so as you can see, there is alot of training involved.

also in all that training there are courses to become corvette certified and volt certified [i have those as well]

so that's the training in a nut shell, lol


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

One of the techs over there explained this to me, he was flat out honest and said, if we can't duplicate it, we aren't going to drive it all day to fix it. Which i understood, because if that were the case, cars would take FOREVER to fix... Reality sucks.


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