# Just bought a set of Bridgestone Ecopia tires...



## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

My initial impression of the Bridgestone Ecopias is how quiet they are compared to the oem Firestone FR710's. Overall road noise is way down. There is a stretch of highway (I-88) that I frequently travel with a considerable amount of expansion joints, and the Firestones really slapped over them, so much that the impact really traveled through the suspension quite harshly. With the Ecopias, I hardly notice the expansion joints. Driving down the NYS Thruway the other day, the Cruze was virtually silent, and I can actually hear the roar of tires on the pavement from vehicles coming up beside me. From what I have read in other reviews, this is because the sidewall of the Ecopias is not nearly as stiff. This no doubt explains why the road noise and harshness is way down. The sidewalls must literally act as shock absorbers and they do that very well.

That is the good, now for the bad. With nearly 1,000 miles on the Ecopias now, I still have noticeable wandering at highway speed. I do not have the same precise steering that I had with the Firestones. To exaggerate the sensation I get, the Cruze feels like it is riding on balloon tires. As a tire marketed as a LRR fuel saving tire, I was surprised to find that the maximum sidewall psi is 44 lbs. I had assumed they would be 51 psi, like other LLR tires on the market. When I increased the pressure from the installed pressure of 35 lbs. to the maximum of 44 lbs., it made no difference in road noise and harshness, they were still just as quiet. Unfortunately, it also made no difference in handling. More steering correction is definitely required on the highway, also likely due to the softer sidewall.

I can not say whether my mileage has gone up at all with these Ecopia tires. My daily driving is too varied to be able to compare mpg at this time. Now that fall is here with the cooler temperatures, and winter gas hitting the pumps, there are too many other variables at play to tell whether there is any difference in gas mileage from the Firestones. The Ecopia tires are rated for 65,000 miles. As I drive approximately 45,000 miles per year, I should be able to comment on mpg and tread life by the end of next summer.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

This is something you can expect. A tire with a stiffer sidewall will transfer more road vibration and irregularity into the suspension without absorbing it. However, the same stiffer sidewall will also allow the car to remain more stable in the corners and on the road.

The tires you got seem to have softer sidewalls. Great for road noise and comfort, but not for handling or stability. The softer sidewall will flex more easily and allow the tire to roll laterally. 

What's your tire pressure? Increasing that will bring back some rigidity to the tire. It's worth experimenting with.

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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

I had the same problem with a new set of Michelin Defenders. They were supposed to be LRR tires(like the Ecopias) that had 90000 mile tread wear out. The day after I bought them I wanted to return them to Sam's where I bought them and get my 710s back(they would have nothing to do with it). They were as you described, no feel the car any more and the handling sucked.

You're mileage will go down for a couple thousand miles while you "break the new tires in". I hated my Defenders so much that within 1000 miles or so(by Memorial day), I saw a buy 3 get 1 free on the 710s so I bought a new set. Car handles much better now and my mileage is improving again. 

I'll tell you the car was designed for the 710s and the new 710s are better than the factory ones and they ride very smooth IMO. Very happy I bought them(thought I had a new car again). Firestone carries buy 3 get 1 free deals on the 710s regularly.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

What speed rating are the Bridgestones?

The Firestones are already ridiculously soft at the "S" speed rating and don't handle well once pushed too far. I'll be going with Z-rated next time around.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I just looked at tirerack. There are two versions of the Ecopia EP422s. The 94H have a max PSI of 44. The 94V have a max PSI of 51. Also, thanks for the quick review as I suspect I'll have to replace the tires on Penguin LS next spring.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> What's your tire pressure? Increasing that will bring back some rigidity to the tire. It's worth experimenting with.


I've got them set to the max sidewall pressure of 44 psi. It didn't help. Perhaps handling will improve when they are broken in more. Bridgestone does have a Buy & Try 30 Day Guarantee, so if I decide I can't live with the reduced handling characteristics, I should be able to return them.



jblackburn said:


> What speed rating are the Bridgestones?
> 
> The Firestones are already ridiculously soft at the "S" speed rating and don't handle well once pushed too far. I'll be going with Z-rated next time around.


They are an H rated tire. See below. I was not aware they had two different ratings for the same tire.



obermd said:


> I just looked at tirerack. There are two versions of the Ecopia EP422s. The 94H have a max PSI of 44. The 94V have a max PSI of 51. Also, thanks for the quick review as I suspect I'll have to replace the tires on Penguin LS next spring.


Thanks for the info. It looks like there is no difference between the H and V rated tire other than the speed rating, max sidewall pressure, and price. In other words, under normal driving, they should perform the same. Right?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

UpstateNYBill said:


> Thanks for the info. It looks like there is no difference between the H and V rated tire other than the speed rating, max sidewall pressure, and price. In other words, under normal driving, they should perform the same. Right?


No. The higher speed rating means the tire either generates less internal heat or disapates heat faster. One way to boost your speed rating is to stiffen the sidewall, reducing the sidewall flex and thus heat buildup. A stiffer sidewall will change the handling characteristics of the car. I'm not sure how this relates to max PSI, however.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> No. The higher speed rating means the tire either generates less internal heat or disapates heat faster. One way to boost your speed rating is to stiffen the sidewall, reducing the sidewall flex and thus heat buildup. A stiffer sidewall will change the handling characteristics of the car. I'm not sure how this relates to max PSI, however.


The H rated Ecopia tires that I got have a speed rating of 130 mph, and the V rated Ecopia tires have a speed rating of 149 mph. According to Tirerack, my old Firestone FR710's come with an S or a T speed rating, which is 112 mph and 118 mph respectively. Something just doesn't add up here. These Ecopia tires must be constructed differently somehow.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Agreed.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Look into Michelin Pilot Exalto tires. They seem to be a good balance between ride and handling although more towards handling. I'm going to get 4 this December for my Balt


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> What speed rating are the Bridgestones?
> 
> The Firestones are already ridiculously soft at the "S" speed rating and don't handle well once pushed too far. I'll be going with Z-rated next time around.



My new Firestones have a "T" speed rating and they have no problem with being pushed.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Patman said:


> My new Firestones have a "T" speed rating and they have no problem with being pushed.


Throw it into a corner too hard, even at low speed, and you feel the sidewall flex and the tires squeal like a stuck pig. No me gusta.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

IIRC the Ecopia tires were low-grip and wishy-washy for handling when TireRack tested them. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=155 Not too surprised you're finding that to be true. And, I-88 can be a nightmare in rain or in bad weather with all the fast, sweeping turns and elevation changes. Plan the gas stops carefully, too, since if one leaves Binghamton or Albany without enough fuel to get to Oneonta at least, it gets mighty lonely out there.

I'd have sprung for the V speed rated tires since they're constructed better, with an additional cap (IIRC) than T rated tires. 

Still undecided on what tires to get when the OEM Goodyears finally bite the dust, but there are several promising choices just coming to market now.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Interesting TireRack review. The Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max was going to be my other choice and they thought the steering was even more vague than the Ecopias. I really would like fuel economy and handling, but it looks like you'd have to pick one or the other based on that review. Ugh.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max is the OEM tire on the ECO. It responds to steering input with no vagueness or delay. I've been very impressed with these tires on my ECO MT.


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## NYCruze2012 (Jan 16, 2012)

obermd said:


> The Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max is the OEM tire on the ECO. It responds to steering input with no vagueness or delay. I've been very impressed with these tires on my ECO MT.


 I definitely agree with you as well. I think when I need new tires I'm going to put the same tires back on. They work very well on my Eco MT.

Sent from my DROID3


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

obermd said:


> The Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max is the OEM tire on the ECO. It responds to steering input with no vagueness or delay. I've been very impressed with these tires on my ECO MT.


I would have to disagree with the goodyear tire feel. I drive 120+ miles per day and on the highway, always seemed to feel like the car was floating around for a place to be. I replaced the OEM tires with Michelin Primacy MXV4 H-rated tires, and the difference is night and day. I don't get the floating feeling anymore and they definitely felt more "attached" to the road during rain! After having an accident on a different set of goodyears, I didn't want history to repeat itself, so I got rid of them as soon as I felt they went Corvair ... that is, unsafe at any speed (except Parked!) Just my opinion


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

spaycace said:


> I would have to disagree with the goodyear tire feel. I drive 120+ miles per day and on the highway, always seemed to feel like the car was floating around for a place to be. I replaced the OEM tires with Michelin Primacy MXV4 H-rated tires, and the difference is night and day. I don't get the floating feeling anymore and they definitely felt more "attached" to the road during rain! After having an accident on a different set of goodyears, I didn't want history to repeat itself, so I got rid of them as soon as I felt they went Corvair ... that is, unsafe at any speed (except Parked!) Just my opinion


MXV4s are some of the best tires I've ever owned. They last a ridiculously long time too - got 60,000 miles out of a set. 


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

obermd said:


> The Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max is the OEM tire on the ECO. It responds to steering input with no vagueness or delay. I've been very impressed with these tires on my ECO MT.


I have to agree with the steering. Then again, mine are running 45 PSI front and 42 PSI rear.


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## Dale_K (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm looking for some "comfort" tires. There are a lot of roads around me with transverse cracks and the stock 710s transmit the impact into the car in a harsh way. I was thinking about the Goodyears but maybe the Bridgestones would work. I'm willing to accept some handling deterioration. The balloon tire concept sounds like the kind of thing that would do what I want.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Dale_K said:


> I'm looking for some "comfort" tires. There are a lot of roads around me with transverse cracks and the stock 710s transmit the impact into the car in a harsh way. I was thinking about the Goodyears but maybe the Bridgestones would work. I'm willing to accept some handling deterioration. The balloon tire concept sounds like the kind of thing that would do what I want.


It's generally not so noticeable under, say, 45 mph. I'm thinking it is something one can get used to. I'm not on the highway more than an hour at any one time as most all of my travel is "local". If I were going to be on the highway all day, the Ecopias would probably be more tiring than the Firestone FR710's with the extra required steering input.

My coworker, who has a Prius, has Goodyear Assurance tires (although they don't say Fuel Max on them so they must be a different tire) and he hates them, as he says they are noisy and harsh like the FR710's and only last him about 35k. 

I wonder if there is a difference of opinion on the Fuel Max tires because of tire size. The Eco has a lower profile tire which would be less susceptible to sidewall flex than the LT or LS 16" tire.


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## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

UpstateNYBill said:


> My coworker, who has a Prius, has Goodyear Assurance tires (although they don't say Fuel Max on them so they must be a different tire) and he hates them, as he says they are noisy and harsh like the FR710's and only last him about 35k.


I wonder if your cow-irker is running TripleTreds. I ran them exclusively on my cars in Denver and loved them for their grip and stability, but they do wear quickly on dry pavement.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

coinneach said:


> I wonder if your cow-irker is running TripleTreds. I ran them exclusively on my cars in Denver and loved them for their grip and stability, but they do wear quickly on dry pavement.


LOL. No, his name isn't cwerdna. I did head over to priuschat the other day to see if he's still alive. He is, he must have just given up trying to convert us Cruze owners.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

UpstateNYBill said:


> LOL. No, his name isn't cwerdna. I did head over to priuschat the other day to see if he's still alive. He is, he must have just given up trying to convert us Cruze owners.


He's still lurking here. I checked his account the other day and he had been on the previous day.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

UpstateNYBill said:


> I wonder if there is a difference of opinion on the Fuel Max tires because of tire size. The Eco has a lower profile tire which would be less susceptible to sidewall flex than the LT or LS 16" tire.


Both the 16" and 17" tires have the same 215 sidewall height (215/60-16 VS. 215/55-17) so I don't think sidewall height would make a whole lot of difference. I think it's actual tire technology used and the amount of materials (rubber, silica, etc.) used to make them. Compare the weight of the tires and you'll get a better idea of which tire has "more quality" built into it. The OE goodyear weighs 19 pounds, while the same size Michelin weighs 25 pounds. I have not noticed any drop in fuel economy with the Michelins and I've had them for 15,000 miles. I also notice the road noise is less AND the "bumps in the road" aren't quite as bumpy! (meaning the tar joints in asphalt) And since I drive 120+ miles a day, I notice all that kind of stuff. And when you think about it, is the car manufacturer going to the "best" tire on the car, or the "least expensive" tire in order to keep their profits up? I have a feeling we ALL know the answer to this question, unfortunately. 
Michelin tires have always been the most "comfortable" tires I've ever purchased, and I've owned goodyear, bridgestone, pirelli, kumho, continental, and BFG. Best of luck on your decision


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

spaycace said:


> Michelin tires have always been the most "comfortable" tires I've ever purchased, and I've owned goodyear, bridgestone, pirelli, kumho, continental, and BFG. Best of luck on your decision


Thanks. I just happened to see a review of tires in Consumer Reports today. They did rate the Michelin Energy Saver tire much better than the Ecopia.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Another option for those who are on 17" or larger wheels is the Nitto Motivo. I've been doing a lot of reading about them and they seem like a heck of a good tire. Discount Tire Direct has some reviews on them, but they are hard to find as the reviews are size-specific (you have to look at every size tire to see all the reviews - DUMB!).

I would also extend a vote for the GY Fuel Max tires on the Eco. I have low mileage on mine right now, but others have gotten decent mileage out of them and they seem to be decent in rain, not overly loud either. I've never tested this on a non-Eco Cruze, but my Eco rolls SOOO easily it wierd... I've never had a car that rolls so easily before, and two of my cars were S-Series Saturns that weighed 500-600 pounds less than this car does. Those GY tires may have a lot to do with that... I imagine GM put them on the Volt for a reason.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Another option for those who are on 17" or larger wheels is the Nitto Motivo. I've been doing a lot of reading about them and they seem like a heck of a good tire. Discount Tire Direct has some reviews on them, but they are hard to find as the reviews are size-specific (you have to look at every size tire to see all the reviews - DUMB!).
> 
> I would also extend a vote for the GY Fuel Max tires on the Eco. I have low mileage on mine right now, but others have gotten decent mileage out of them and they seem to be decent in rain, not overly loud either. I've never tested this on a non-Eco Cruze, but my Eco rolls SOOO easily it wierd... I've never had a car that rolls so easily before, and two of my cars were S-Series Saturns that weighed 500-600 pounds less than this car does. Those GY tires may have a lot to do with that... I imagine GM put them on the Volt for a reason.


That's normal with all Cruze trims. I think GM made an effort to reduce friction on just about every aspect of the drivetrain as much as possible. Plus, the 1.4 liter engine doesn't offer much compression braking.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

So far I'm ok with the 'stones on mine. Good chance I will upgrade to the GY Assurance Triple Treads next spring. I'm not concerned with the mileage dropping off really bad. I like the tires and they are great all year tires. Just my $0.02.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> That's normal with all Cruze trims. I think GM made an effort to reduce friction on just about every aspect of the drivetrain as much as possible.


Maybe it's something to do with the wheel bearings then, because on level ground in neutral I can push this car by hand much easier than my Saturns and they were much lighter cars. Almost feels like it's floating.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

Bottom line ... You'll be able to do your research and find rave reviews as well as poor reviews for pretty much ANY brand of tire you look for. It's just too bad you can't "test drive" tires for awhile to see which ones you like best. In the end, it's all about what you feel comfortable with purchasing, based on other people's opinions for whether or not they like the tires you're looking at. I've had enough bad experiences (not bad luck, cuz if luck were involved, it wouldn't be a bad experience, right?) with tires to be willing to pay a little extra for Michelin tires and get more life out of them, not to mention feeling safer on the road ... but again, that's MY opinion :th_coolio:


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

spaycace said:


> Both the 16" and 17" tires have the same 215 sidewall height (215/60-16 VS. 215/55-17) so I don't think sidewall height would make a whole lot of difference.


The 215 is tread width in millimeters, not sidewall height. Sidewall height is the 60 or 55, which is aspect ratio of the tread width, calculated as a percentage of the tread width. So the 16" tires have a taller sidewall than the 17" tires.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

spaycace said:


> It's just too bad you can't "test drive" tires for awhile to see which ones you like best.


Actually, you can "test drive" the Bridgestone Ecopias as they have a Buy and Try 30 day guarantee. I only had about one weeks worth of driving on mine before my car-deer accident and since the Cruze was in the shop for almost 3 weeks being repaired, I did not have to opportunity to return the Ecopias within the 30 day window. 

Needless to say, I'll be doing a long term test.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

I just got a set of Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S at Discount Tires. They feel good so far, my cars takes bumps better, handles better, still need to take them on the freeway.

One thing that irritated me is that they left what looks like green magic marker marks on the sidewall of 3 of the tires. They took the time to make the tires shiny so why leave that crap on them?


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

I'd been meaning to update this thread. The Ecopias have definitely stiffened up with the very cold temperatures and do not seem to wander much on the highway like they did last fall. I expect the wandering sensation to return with warmer temperatures.

I still have not put on my dedicated snow tires as I haven't had any significant snow since the holidays (when I didn't go anywhere anyway), and since then the Ecopias have handled the couple of inches of snow now and again without any trouble.

It's still too early to get an idea of tire life.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

You might try checking your front toe. The softer the tire's sidewall the more wandering you'll get, that's for sure, but if you have too little toe-in the result can be the same.Generally speaking, softer/taller sidewalls require more toe, stiffer/shorter sidewalls require less toe. If you know for sure the tires are softer than the stock ones it might pay to make sure you have the maximum toe allowed in the GM alignment spec. Just a thought. Only the front toe is adjustable (it's the only alignment adjustment possible without shimming), so don't get suckered into paying for a "4-wheel alignment".


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

I jumped the gun on the Pilot Exalto. On the grooved freeways in Cali the tires tramline like crazy.
I have to continually adjust the steering wheel to keep the car going straight.
I'm going to Discount Tire this week to exchange them for something else. 
I'm think about the Yokohama K580 or maybe going back to the Michelin Primacy although those tramlined as well, just to a lesser extent.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

steve333 said:


> I jumped the gun on the Pilot Exalto. On the grooved freeways in Cali the tires tramline like crazy.
> I have to continually adjust the steering wheel to keep the car going straight.
> I'm going to Discount Tire this week to exchange them for something else.
> I'm think about the Yokohama K580 or maybe going back to the Michelin Primacy although those tramlined as well, just to a lesser extent.


When was the last time your car was aligned?

I love Yokohama tires for their sheer amount of grip, and they are a great tire in every respect but treadlife. They just do not last very long.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

It was aligned recently. I noticed the difference right after I got on the freeway with the new tires. I spoke to someone who used to work on cars and he said I should look for tires with a criss cross pattern on the tread. The pilot's are straight as an arrow.
Of course a wekk after I spent $700 on the tires my brakes started making a nasty sound. I thought it was just my front rotors needing replacing but nope-rear drums were spent as well. Another $500 out the window! They had never been replaced so it was due but sheesh!

I'm most likely getting a new car later this year so tread life isn't important, plus I only put 5-6,000 miles a year on the car.


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## xpeacemaker (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm planning on putting the OEM goodyears back on. I have nothing but good things to say about them. They perform real well in the dry IMO.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> You might try checking your front toe. The softer the tire's sidewall the more wandering you'll get, that's for sure, but if you have too little toe-in the result can be the same.Generally speaking, softer/taller sidewalls require more toe, stiffer/shorter sidewalls require less toe. If you know for sure the tires are softer than the stock ones it might pay to make sure you have the maximum toe allowed in the GM alignment spec. Just a thought. Only the front toe is adjustable (it's the only alignment adjustment possible without shimming), so don't get suckered into paying for a "4-wheel alignment".


Interesting idea. I probably won't bother trying this though, as long as the tires are wearing evenly. I can live with the slight wandering. I will just run them out, and get something else next time.


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## darrell321 (Feb 12, 2013)

i wanna get a set of bfg on 18s but you think they will rub on a eabach 1.2in drop


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

darrell321 said:


> i wanna get a set of bfg on 18s but you think they will rub on a eabach 1.2in drop


Check out the Wheels, Tires and Suspension forum. Dig through there and post some questions if you don't find what you're looking for.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Got the Yokohama k580 and they don't tramline at all! My go to tire from now on as long as they stay balanced. My car rides so much better than with the Michelins it's amazing


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

I finally replaced the Ecopias last week. They were essentially bald when I put the snow tires/steelies on last fall and they only lasted about 35k compared to the OEM Firestone FR710's which I ran out to 42k.

I have had the replacement tire, the Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max, for about a week and I like them much better. I don't detect the wandering that was quite noticable with the Ecopias. The wandering went away after a while, but for someone who doesn't drive as much as me, that could be a couple of years. They were quieter than the Fuel Max, but only barely. The only way I could recommend the Ecopias is if you wanted a cushy ride and didn't do any highway driving.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Bridgestone makes garbage tires, enough said. 

I love my Goodyear OEM tires on my car. Which is quite odd for me because I'm a Michelin man and really dislike Goodyear's truck/SUV tires


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I've had very good results with Bridgestone Turanza and Potenza tires. I considered the Ecopia but the Perellis got better ratings at both Tire Rack and Discount Tire.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I worked for bridgestone, their blizzaks are great and people like the potenza tires. But I saw them as a whole and how bad most of their tires were day in and day out. I also saw how they treated their employees. 

I told my car salesman that if the car had bridgestone that they'd have to be changed. He told me it probably would cost extra or wouldn't happen. When I told him it was make or break on the deal he was shocked. Needless to say I had no problems because they were goodyears


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