# Clutch pedal went to the floor… AGAIN



## 17Hatch6MT (Dec 28, 2015)

smh


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Man, I know it’s probably something broken from this slave cylinder defect. I can already picture it being the master cylinder this time. Who knows, maybe ANOTHER broken slave cylinder ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

With some luck maybe it’s an O-ring broken, or a hose detached. I hope it can be a cheap, easy fix.

FML


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I just can't express how unbelievably mad and upset I am about this, at least no in polite words. It's incredible to have a vehicle that isn't even 4 years old (just under 73,000 miles) and the transmission is broken AGAIN. I've had manual transmission cars from other brands that never broke. My little cheapo eggbeater Hyundai Accent had a 5-speed manual and it was never a problem with that car for 110,000 miles. The prior family car was a FWD Subaru Legacy that went over 250,000 miles with no problems in the 5-speed there.


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## 17Hatch6MT (Dec 28, 2015)

Ikr. One reason I specifically ordered a manual was for likelihood it wouldn't break. A week ago, the engagement seemed different/odd, not sure & I shook it off. We'll see. 20,000 miles new & needed first major service, 7,000 more miles & needs another? Maybe the (Europe-only, NA buyers are SOL) recall didn't actually fix anything, maybe the design is so poor/inadequate that 20,000-50,000 miles is all they're good for. That wouldn't be a first for GM. I knew that, and shame on me.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

The M32 gearbox has been around for like 20 years now. You’d think that basically every problem has been diagnosed over the years and parts manufacturing held to a quality where nothing really breaks other than if a batch of bad parts gets built or something like that.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Just looked at the service invoice. The clutch repair was done at about 50,9xx miles. The car is now just under 73,000 miles. It made it 22,000 miles before it broke again.

Now I have to try to limp it to the dealership and wait for them to get it in for diagnosis. I can’t wait to get this repair estimate.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Four more clutch jobs on the punch card and I get a free sub sandwich.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

The engine won’t start. Whatever clutch safety switch needs to work to start the engine isn’t working.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I don't know why the clutch safety switch was malfunctioning, but I wasn't looking forward to a $300-400 towing bill to get the car to the Chevy dealership in my home city (I was working about 50 miles away in another city). As a last resort, I disconnected the battery to clear the car computer and it was a miracle that worked. The car started (and the CEL disappeared). I was able to pump the clutch up to where it was barely working at hit the highway to drive it home. When I got to the exit ramp of my home city, the clutch was back to non-functional and then the CEL was back on again when that happened. I floated the shifts to get the car through the green traffic lights to get it to the dealership and hit one red light for a stop. I pumped the clutch up enough again to get it barely working and it's parked at the dealership, waiting for them to look at it tomorrow.

I can't wait to hear the BS explanation for this again. I can't wait to hear the size of the repair bill. This is like 1 year, 5 months after the last repair for the same issue. This is 22,000 miles after the last repair for the same issue. This isn't supposed to be happening to break again like this.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

So, this looks like it might be my only saving hope:










My hope is a 24 month on the installed parts (that broke) will be honored, but I bet they come up with some sort of excuse for why this doesn't apply.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

This is the bourbon talking at this point but GOD-DAMNED this is the dumbest problem to have with a POS Chevy. I can't believe I have a car that's broken down with the same farking problem that was like 16 months ago. This is the last American car I am buying in my life.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

So, this morning I got word that the slave cylinder has indeed failed again. It's leaked fluid all over the place to the point that the clutch disc needs replaced, and I don't mind paying out of pocket for that part. The service writer is saying this repair will be under the 24-month parts warranty because it's the same thing that's failed.

HOWEVER, she quotes me a cost out-of-pocket of $1,515 for parts and labor.

So, uh, how is that cost that high? Anyone have any idea how a clutch disc being replaced is a grand and a half?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Alright, so it turns out what was described to me before by a different mechanic is not correct. When the slave cylinder was replaced the first time, I was told that the transmission was "disassembled" because the slave cylinder was an internal part - that's why it took about 5.7 hours of labor to do the job. This technician tells me that the transmission was only "partially disassembled" and the slave cylinder can be and was changed without doing anything to the clutch of the car.

So, the new failure of the slave cylinder resulted in hydraulic oil (brake fluid) being squirted all over the clutch and pressure plate, completely contaminating it. This means it's another 5-6 hours of labor to open the transmission up and to put a clutch kit in the car. The kit is about $400 and something and then the rest of the labor comes to about $1,500 total for the job.

Chevy's defective, failed part (failed under warranty) now costs me an extra $1,500 to replaced the trashed clutch and associated parts.


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## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

The labor to do the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel is the same labor required to get to the slave cylinder. You do have to separate the engine and transmission and remove the trans from the car, but afterwards everything is accessible. The clutch stays bolted to the engine, slave stays bolted to the trans. Maybe they charge another .5 hours or something to remove and replace the clutch but they shouldn't be charging the full time.

I think there is mostly likely 1 of 2 things happening here:

1.) The dealer is scum

2.) The dealer has to initially charge you the entire rate until they have actually removed the part, confirmed it's bad, and gotten warranty approval from GM. Then they will reverse any charges. Of course, if their diagnoses is wrong and GM doesn't warranty it, you're now on the hook for all the time they spent on it.

As annoying as it is, this is pretty much standard operating procedure at any dealer (not just GM,) as soon as you are outside of the 3yr/36,000 warranty. I was even charged $135 for them to plug in an OBDII scanner to my cruze once so that they could confirm the check engine light was on, then they would take the code and see if it was covered under warranty. If it was, I didn't pay. If it wasn't they kept my $135. 

That's right kids - the dealer charges $135 and needs the car for 2 hours to do what any parts store will do for free on the spot.

Also - even when you read your own codes and can tell them ahead of time what the problem is, they won't/can't look up if it's covered under warranty until they open a ticket on it and plug in their own scanner.

It's a great system where everyone but the consumer wins.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

phil1734 said:


> The labor to do the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel is the same labor required to get to the slave cylinder. You do have to separate the engine and transmission and remove the trans from the car, but afterwards everything is accessible. The clutch stays bolted to the engine, slave stays bolted to the trans. Maybe they charge another .5 hours or something to remove and replace the clutch but they shouldn't be charging the full time.


The invoice from the first slave cylinder replacement says 5.7 hours for the job. When I went to the dealership in-person to ask all the details, the technician was in the room and able to jump in and explain his version of it to me. He said the slave cylinder is one job and it's another job (with something like 5-6 hours of labor) to replace the clutch, and that sounded incredibly suspicious from my knowledge. But I couldn't really dispute it because I honestly don't know the answer. The cost of everything also included $99 for an alignment because that has to be done to get the suspension all sorted out, and I don't have a problem with that.

So, honestly, I suspected it was something where they were throwing the labor back at me to pay some of it.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

phil1734 said:


> The labor to do the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel is the same labor required to get to the slave cylinder. You do have to separate the engine and transmission and remove the trans from the car, but afterwards everything is accessible.


Is there a chance you have a parts diagram or repair tutorial that shows this?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Yeah, the independent shop I would have taken it to if I had to pay out of pocket for this repair told me "I could get both of those jobs done with parts included for about $1,100." He confirmed it's the same job to do both parts. His suspicion (probably 100% correct) is the dealership is trying to bill both GM and me for the work.


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## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

The dealer definitely stinks to me.

I found this one, but you can't see the slave. It's inside the transmission bellhousing which is the part floating off to the left. The circular assembly still bolted to the engine is the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate assembly. Six more bolts remove the pressure plate and clutch, and another six remove the flywheel (if they are even doing that.) You can see one of the bolt heads at 12:00 on the circular bit, and the other 5 equally spaced around the circumference.

Maybe they also want to charge for a new/resurfaced flywheel? That would probably be the "by the book" method of doing it, but they should mention so.









FWIW, when my trans was replaced it was done under the powertrain warranty and not the 3/36. I don't know that it is, but it would make sense that GM would require a suspension alignment afterward since you have to remove parts of it and the sub-frame to get the trans out. I never paid for an alignment. If it's part of the GM R&R procedure, it should be covered. They should also replace most of the hardware since it's almost all torque-to-yield.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

phil1734 said:


> Maybe they also want to charge for a new/resurfaced flywheel? That would probably be the "by the book" method of doing it, but they should mention so.
> 
> FWIW, when my trans was replaced it was done under the powertrain warranty and not the 3/36. I don't know that it is, but it would make sense that GM would require a suspension alignment afterward since you have to remove parts of it and the sub-frame to get the trans out. I never paid for an alignment. If it's part of the GM R&R procedure, it should be covered. They should also replace most of the hardware since it's almost all torque-to-yield.


The parts they mentioned was a "clutch package" for about $400, and I assume that's the pressure plate and clutch disc. They said nothing about the flywheel.

And I wondered about the alignment, because I assumed (but the paperwork doesn't say) that was done when the slave cylinder was replaced the last time since there were tie rod ends and other suspension parts replaced. Got to get those front wheels lined up when you're replacing some odds and ends in the suspension.


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## Earthangel496 (Oct 17, 2017)

That dealership is double billing labor and job operations that should covered under warranty procedures for slave cylinder repair. Clutch should be covered because it was damaged by defective slave cylinder. Contact GM Customer Service to escalate your complaint.


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## HeltemesMaximus (Feb 23, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> 2018 Cruze Diesel 6MT and the big slave cylinder repair job was already done under warranty.
> 
> Highway driving to work this morning and I just barely touched the pedal to exit the freeway when the pedal went to the floor. No clutch function at all. I can shift gears by matching speed. Interestingly, the CEL came on at the same time.
> 
> Total guess at this point is that defective slave cylinder debris in the fluid has now borked the master cylinder.


Same thing happened to my 2017 diesel M/T in 2019. Happened right after exiting the highway, and it wouldn't shift into any gear at a stop light. Luckily they covered it under the powertrain warranty at that time. They had to replace the master and slave cylinder. I'm seriously considering selling it, and then buying something without all the emissions and powertrain issues.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Earthangel496 said:


> That dealership is double billing labor and job operations that should covered under warranty procedures for slave cylinder repair. Clutch should be covered because it was damaged by defective slave cylinder. Contact GM Customer Service to escalate your complaint.


I'm discussing this with the Cadillac dealer that is literally a block away from the Chevy dealer. If their shop can do the same work on GM vehicles, will get it covered under warranty, and my out-of-pocket cost is minimal, I'm going to go to that Chevy dealership and PUSH THE MF-ING CAR A BLOCK DOWN THE STREET to get it fixed at the Cadillac shop.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

So, a third phone call to a different Chevy dealer who will remain unnamed confirmed to me two things:
1. If the failure of the warrantied part (the slave cylinder) damaged the clutch, those parts should be covered under the warranty on the slave cylinder job.
2. There is absolutely no excuse for giving me a huge estimate for the clutch job given that the parts are $347 and change, and that's about the only out-of-pocket cost I should have if GM decides that they won't cover the damage caused by the failed slave cylinder.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Phone call from the shop manager this morning: after consultation with GM (whomever makes the decision) the repairs will be fully covered. The clutch replacement will be be covered as "other parts damaged by the failure of a warrantied part."


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I can't wait to see if they take it apart and find the flywheel is contaminated enough to need replacing. This sounds like more $$$.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Does anyone know how long it takes GM parts to ship to a dealership? They've had the car since Monday of the prior week and I have no notification from them that they've received the parts to begin work. They were ordering a slave cylinder and a clutch kit (friction disc, pressure plate, and assorted bolts in one part kit).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Depends on the part.

My brother is still waiting on a rear door handle for his Regal from months back (thankfully the car isn't stuck there in the meantime).


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

We had the huge snow storm last week that backed things up on Wed and Thu, but other than that it's been nothing unusual. On the Monday that they ordered the parts they said "5-7 days" and it's now nearing the end of the second week and it's crickets chirping.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Got the car back today. The service writer seemed to be a little snippy about the whole job being done for free. They gave me the spiel about how "Clutches are usually only warrantied for the first 12 months of ownership, so this is a very generous repair to have it all covered." Seriously? The part replaced just 16 months ago broke and it BROKE MORE STUFF. The warrantied part BROKE MORE STUFF and that's why it was paid for to replace it.

Oh, and the car drives straight and the steering wheel is off-center to the right. I have to take it back next week to make them center the steering wheel.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

So, the car went back to fix the off-center steering wheel. Turns out the front alignment was off. Like, WAY OFF.

Obviously the mechanic never did the alignment after he put the car back together.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)




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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Why the hell was toe screwed up? Nothing should have been adjusted that would change that. And everything else looked fine...just toe was out...and in.

Still has nothing on my Cavalier which had _3 degrees_ of toe-out on both wheels after I replaced the front subframe and control arms. That was terrifying.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Why the hell was toe screwed up? Nothing should have been adjusted that would change that. And everything else looked fine...just toe was out...and in.


I have no idea. Part of the repair procedure from bolting everything back together is to do a 4-wheel alignment. I picked the car up and to drive straight the steering wheel had to be turned about 5 degrees to the right. It wasn't like anything was a hard pull on the wheel - just like it was off-center. So, I took it back for them to do the quick fix and when they handed me that sheet with the measurements it became obvious to me that they never did the alignment after the repair.

Another wonderful thing is the repair invoice doesn't list all of the bolts as parts to be replaced in the repair due to them being torque-to-yield fasteners. They stretch when torqued and if you take them out to do a repair you are to throw them away and replace with new fasteners. So, now I have to wonder if the mechanic reused the old bolts on the job.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Still has nothing on my Cavalier which had _3 degrees_ of toe-out on both wheels after I replaced the front subframe and control arms. That was terrifying.


I bought a 2009 Hyundai Accent as part of the Cash For Clunkers program. It had 24 miles on it and it pulled to the right, so part of the purchase was for them to fix that. They said the rear suspension was out of alignment and they had to order a shim because the rear was non-adjustable. Fine, whatever, they said it could have been out of alignment when the car was strapped down too tight on the truck for delivery.

At about 30,000 miles I find out that the OEM tires (60,000 mile tires) were worn out on the insides of the tire. Checking the alignment finds out that both front wheels were toed inward basically at the maximum amount where it could be considered to be "within spec" but the little black tick marks on that printout were at the extreme inside of the color-coded measurements.

So, I had to replace the tires and get the alignment done. I basically did a "soft ask" with the dealership to see if I could get some partial compensation for the tires because it was obvious that the alignment done at the dealership was not correct. The toe-in scrubbed all the tires to where they were worn out on the insides. Their answer as that I must have hit a pothole that knocked it out of alignment. OK, SURE, I just happened to hit the world's most immaculate pothole at exactly the right speed and angle so as to toe both of the wheels inward at exactly the same measurements on each wheel.


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## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

I think that was just a feature of Hyundais of the era. My mom had a '06 Tucson that went through a set of tires every 30,000 miles or so despite being "in spec." 

Luckily they were always pro-rated because she always had them rotated on schedule and and the alignment checked at the same place and had receipts to prove it, but around the time she installed her third set she got a letter from Michelin corporate that said they would no longer honor their 60,000 mile warranty for that vehicle.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

phil1734 said:


> she got a letter from Michelin corporate that said they would no longer honor their 60,000 mile warranty for that vehicle


Wow. I know someone banned from one Hyundai dealership (she has to drive about 50 miles to another for any warranty issues) but I've never heard of anyone banned by a tire manufacturer.


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