# Why does a $40 oil change become $90 when they say the magic word?



## C_Jackson (Jul 1, 2021)

I just got dinged for an oil and engine filter on top of an oil change (at 52%, was curious if the dealer was going to suggest holding off) with Chevrolet's multi point inspection. I don't have an answer, just absolutely share your frustration. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Maqcro1 (Apr 29, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> Local dealership advertises "Dexos oil change up to 6 quarts" for $39.95. When they say the magic word "Diesel" the price suddenly becomes $90. What gives?
> 
> I go to the auto parts store and the oil is the same price. Dexos1 or Dexos 2 oil - it's the same price. Oil filters at the same price - gasoline Cruze or Diesel Cruze, it's the same price.
> 
> ...


**** sign me up for the $40 dealer oil change. Oil change for my Cruze costs around $45 for oil and filter and I’m changing it myself. 

I’ve seen many places advertise conventional oil for $30-40 and then you get there and require dexos synthetic which bumps the price up to $80-100 depending on how many quarts are needed. 

The only thing that is upsetting is the false advertising. Is it possible you misunderstood?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Maqcro1 said:


> The only thing that is upsetting is the false advertising. Is it possible you misunderstood?


They have a white board outside the oil change shop saying "DEXOS SYNTHETIC OIL CHANGE UP TO 6 QUARTS $39.95" and then you can add a tire rotation for $10 more. Inside the office there is the basic oil change for $39.95 that does say Dexos1, but the oil is the same price as Dexos2 everywhere I look. Pennzoil 5-quart jugs are the same price for gasoline or Diesel oil. The $49.95 oil change comes with some sort of BG oil additive that says it's a $2,000 engine warranty, and then there is a $84.95 oil change with an engine flush and the oil additive.

The have an invoice with parts broken down like the $21.55 oil filter and the 6 individual quarts of oil for about $8 a quart (comes out to $49 and change for just the oil). But I'm not understanding how that compares to any other car. Where does the cost of the Dexos1 oil fit into the $40 price? Where does the cost for literally any other oil filter on a gasoline car fit into the $40 price? How does an oil filter for this car get to be $21.55 when it's like $10 or less online?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I mean, the Pennzoil synthetic oil change at Wal-mart is $45 and they don't do anything extra when you tell them to use the Dexos2 oil and they pull the correct filter off the shelf in their store. No add-on charges, no coming to me and telling me the price more than doubles "Because it's a Diesel."

The attitude there was them acting like it's a pickup truck, because they tell me "Some of those trucks are $130 for the oil change so this isn't even that high."


----------



## msav (Apr 24, 2014)

all the literature I have seen with their oil change ads, have in small print "excludes Diesel"
I used to pay $55 for mu oil changes at the local Chevy dealer. almost every time fighting with them when they say my oil plug is stripped and they need to charge me an extra $90 to fix it. every time I tell them if it is stripped it is because you stripped it either now when you took it off or before when you tightened it up. I tell them you are the only one who has touched it. 

after the car was out of warranty did I start changing my own oil. every once in a while i will find dexos2 oil on Amazon for a decent price. (19.99 for 5 quarts) most of the time it is $30 for 5 quarts. 
I finally got tired of their poorly designed oil plug and went to Autozone and got a replacement with the proper sized 19 mm head. No issues any more with that.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

msav said:


> all the literature I have seen with their oil change ads, have in small print "excludes Diesel"


Some of it does, and I'm still asking why there is a price difference when I can see the oil is the same price. I can walk into auto parts stores and the oil is the same price. So why are they telling me the parts cost just for the oil is $49 and can't explain what that parts cost is for the Dexos1 or how it is included in that flat price for the Dexos1 oil change?


----------



## Maqcro1 (Apr 29, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> Some of it does, and I'm still asking why there is a price difference when I can see the oil is the same price. I can walk into auto parts stores and the oil is the same price. So why are they telling me the parts cost just for the oil is $49 and can't explain what that parts cost is for the Dexos1 or how it is included in that flat price for the Dexos1 oil change?


Honestly you make a valid point. There is no cost difference to them. So why charge more?


----------



## Maqcro1 (Apr 29, 2019)

msav said:


> all the literature I have seen with their oil change ads, have in small print "excludes Diesel"
> I used to pay $55 for mu oil changes at the local Chevy dealer. almost every time fighting with them when they say my oil plug is stripped and they need to charge me an extra $90 to fix it. every time I tell them if it is stripped it is because you stripped it either now when you took it off or before when you tightened it up. I tell them you are the only one who has touched it.
> 
> after the car was out of warranty did I start changing my own oil. every once in a while i will find dexos2 oil on Amazon for a decent price. (19.99 for 5 quarts) most of the time it is $30 for 5 quarts.
> I finally got tired of their poorly designed oil plug and went to Autozone and got a replacement with the proper sized 19 mm head. No issues any more with that.


I had a similar thing happen. They stripped the drain plug. Brand new car and was only brought to them and they tried charging me for the repair. 

Same thing happened when their car wash ripped the chrome trim right off the doors. They didn’t even ask if I wanted the car wash. Also didn’t even tell me about the damage until I told them about it. They say the “courtesy” car wash is not responsible for damage. So I politely as possible said they can put on new chrome trim “courtesy” of the dealer.

$350 for two small chrome door strips 😂


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Maqcro1 said:


> Honestly you make a valid point. There is no cost difference to them. So why charge more?


This Mobil 1 filter is $8.21 on the Wal-mart app so you can get the price match at the store instead of paying $9.97 as the sticker price. Still, either of those prices is cheaper than the $21.55 quoted for the AC Delco filter at the dealer. The AC Delco filter is listed as $7.49 online. Why $21.55 BROKEN OUT AS A SEPARATE LINE ITEM for an oil change?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Maqcro1 said:


> Honestly you make a valid point. There is no cost difference to them. So why charge more?


You jogged my memory.

When I was there I told them I wanted them to show me the bottles of the oil they are putting in the car because I want to verify it is Dexos2. The manager said they can't do that "Because the oil comes out of the hose from the ceiling." I told her it's a Diesel and it takes Dexos2, and then she said "Oh, yeah, in that case it's probably bottled oil." and it was bottled oil.

So, best I can guess is their bulk delivery of Dexos1 is probably very inexpensive compared to the bottled Dexos2 oil. I have no idea what brand or supplier is their Dexos1 oil, but it's bulk in a tank pumped through guns on hoses from the ceiling. Same as when I worked at Wal-mart years ago and the Pennzoil 5W-30 and 10W-30 was probably 10¢ a quart in bulk, delivered by a tanker truck once a month or so.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

If you are paying for an oil change just be happy you have an American car. I have an Audi A7 in the household fleet and the dealer wants $200 for a filter and 7 quarts of synthetic. I do it myself at home for under $50 with Mobil 1 synthetic


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Valpo Cruze said:


> If you are paying for an oil change just be happy you have an American car. I have an Audi A7 in the household fleet and the dealer wants $200 for a filter and 7 quarts of synthetic. I do it myself at home for under $50 with Mobil 1 synthetic


Man, you could be the service writer with that attitude!

"Other cars cost more so be happy with what your bill is!"


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Some of it does, and I'm still asking why there is a price difference when I can see the oil is the same price. I can walk into auto parts stores and the oil is the same price. So why are they telling me the parts cost just for the oil is $49 and can't explain what that parts cost is for the Dexos1 or how it is included in that flat price for the Dexos1 oil change?


I had to guess I would say it's because they don't use as much of the specific oil that the LH7 uses and thus can't stock it in bulk, or as much bulk. Which might inform why they just went ahead and used Dexos 1 on my first free oil change after I specifically (and politely) reminded them it takes Dexos 2. Which in turn informs why I moved on to another dealer since that. Now I do my own changes but I would trust my current dealer if I had to. I do wonder what the price would be if I brought my own oil?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> I had to guess I would say it's because they don't use as much of the specific oil that the LH7 uses and thus can't stock it in bulk, or as much bulk.


They probably get enough Duramax pickups in for oil changes. It's not like the LH7 is the only engine to use that oil.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

The dealer uses mobil1.

And if you all paid attention to the cracked piston stories. The dealer is where they've been going.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> The dealer uses mobil1.


Mobil 1 is sold there as a premium priced upgrade oil change.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Our dealer has the service listed as "CRUZE OR TRUCK DIESEL OIL CHANGE $99.95", which is exactly why I started doing it myself on the Cruze (they used to do the Cruze Diesel's for $45, so I absolutely had them do it). 

What I always wonder is...doesn't the Duramax take like...*double* the amount of oil?


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Mobil 1 is sold there as a premium priced upgrade oil change.


There's nothing premium about it.


----------



## jimmyc (Jun 27, 2020)

I started a post here of the same thing...for my Gen 1 gas CRUZE. Oil Change/filter/tire rotation went from $49.99 to $75.

Dealers , in this climnate cannot make money selling cars: New ones...severly limited if at all (no chips) and used ones are dramatically overpriced...some 30%....so, it is definately not a buyers' market. Dealers have to make money to survivie. So......parts and labor.....there it is.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> There's nothing premium about it.


They have really good marketing. Have to pay for that somehow.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Our dealer has the service listed as "CRUZE OR TRUCK DIESEL OIL CHANGE $99.95"


This is nowhere to be found on their sales board. I orally stated the $40 oil change and then confirmed to the service writer it was a Diesel engine and takes dexos2 oil, and she confirmed that without so much as a word about a higher price. The higher price came AFTER they had drained the oil from the car.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> This is nowhere to be found on their sales board. I orally stated the $40 oil change and then confirmed to the service writer it was a Diesel engine and takes dexos2 oil, and she confirmed that without so much as a word about a higher price. The higher price came AFTER they had drained the oil from the car.


That's a bit of a problem - I would have contested that heavily. At least for ours, I know the pricing ahead of time, and thus choose to do it myself, though I question why the Cruze Diesel's Dexos2 change is the same price as a Duramax's Dexos2 change, despite using half as much oil.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> That's a bit of a problem - I would have contested that heavily. At least for ours, I know the pricing ahead of time, and thus choose to do it myself, though I question why the Cruze Diesel's Dexos2 change is the same price as a Duramax's Dexos2 change, despite using half as much oil.


They had two pieces of paperwork for me to sign. One gave an estimate of $18.10 for the service, and that was just giving permission to work on my car (after they already did most of the work). My guess is they break the labor out as $18.10 and then, for the rest of the gasoline vehicles using dexos1 oil, they have a standard cost of the bulk oil and whatever filter they are installing that brings it up to $39.95.

For my car, the work order says $16.45 for labor and $71.47 for parts. The parts are $21.55 for the oil filter and the oil is $49.92 for six quarts ($8.32 each) of the AC Delco dexos2 oil. Oh, and a weird $1.65 charge as a "shop charge for repair order," which I presume might be some recycling fee for the old oil to be disposed.

They did give a 20% discount when I raised the issue of the price. It's still just silly. Five quarts of dexos2 oil from Pennzoil is $22.93 at Wal-mart and that included whatever profit Wal-mart is making selling that oil. It's $9.95 for a Mobil 1 oil filter at Wal-mart. I'm not understanding how six quarts of oil is double the price from AC Delco and the filter is more than double the price from AC Delco.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> They have really good marketing. Have to pay for that somehow.



Pennzoil markets too. It's a better oil sold cheaper.

Amzoil doesn't market. They're more expensive.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Pennzoil markets too. It's a better oil sold cheaper.


Tell me about it. There are $10 mail-in rebates on 5-quart jugs of Pennzoil at my local Farm & Fleet, but F&F does not and can not get the Euro L spec oil that I need (they just don't carry it in their supply chain). I'd love to get the price of my 5 quarts of oil down to about $13, but the rebates don't work for me because absolutely no one near me is a participating retailer for this rebate.


----------



## Johnny B (Jun 4, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> They have really good marketing. Have to pay for that somehow.


I fell for the heavy marketing in the 90s. It was horrible oil in cold weather, and it left a permeant varnish film in my engine. At best is is a very average oil, not very hard to do better. Pennzoil ftw.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Johnny B said:


> I fell for the heavy marketing in the 90s. It was horrible oil in cold weather, and it left a permeant varnish film in my engine. At best is is a very average oil, not very hard to do better. Pennzoil ftw.


That's a weird response/experience because Mobil 1 was almost literally the best motor oil you could get in the 1990s. In terms of a synthetic oil, they were one of the first and make a genuine premium product. It isn't that Mobil 1 is no good any longer - it's that lots of other oil quality caught up to where M1 is/was and the quality of modern motor oils is incredibly good.


----------



## Maqcro1 (Apr 29, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> That's a weird response/experience because Mobil 1 was almost literally the best motor oil you could get in the 1990s. In terms of a synthetic oil, they were one of the first and make a genuine premium product. It isn't that Mobil 1 is no good any longer - it's that lots of other oil quality caught up to where M1 is/was and the quality of modern motor oils is incredibly good.


GM had told me specifically to only put Mobil1 oil into my engine. Anything else would be a crime 😆. I used penzoil for many years with no issues but there could be a whole debate dedicated to oil brand alone.


----------



## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

I got hit with a Duramax pickup truck oil change on the invoice! First I asked if they knew what vehicle it was, they say ya its a diesel.A Cruze, I say! They didn't care, new owner. I was like are you people Drunk? I only do supplied oil changes only now. I supply everything. They can only charge labor now. Rip off Central. 
I complained to GM I got a fix but anyway I will never go to that dealer ever again.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

My dealer if I bring in filter and oil charge 15$. Oil is 22 ish at Walmart and 8-13ish at Walmart.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> Some of it does, and I'm still asking why there is a price difference when I can see the oil is the same price. I can walk into auto parts stores and the oil is the same price. So why are they telling me the parts cost just for the oil is $49 and can't explain what that parts cost is for the Dexos1 or how it is included in that flat price for the Dexos1 oil change?


youre literally confused why dealer prices are higher than online or other stores?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> youre literally confused why dealer prices are higher than online or other stores?


Yeah, given that their price for a dexos1 oil change for a gasoline engine is cheaper than Wal-mart. $45 at WM, $40 at the dealership. So, if the oil change for a Diesel vehicle is the same at WM, why isn't it maybe slightly more expensive at a dealership?


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> Yeah, given that their price for a dexos1 oil change for a gasoline engine is cheaper than Wal-mart. $45 at WM, $40 at the dealership. So, if the oil change for a Diesel vehicle is the same at WM, why isn't it maybe slightly more expensive at a dealership?


the price elsewhere is of zero relevance


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I pay $30 with tax and change it myself. 
Penz from wally


----------



## 6speedTi (May 18, 2018)

I do my own oil changes as long as I'm physically up to it. I also rotate my tires and drain the fuel filter moisture trap of any water. This gives me the opportunity to check my brakes and look for any other issues while it's up off the wheels. I've been using Pennzoil Euro L and GM filters since new on both my Cruze and Colorado Diesel. No issues so far and don't expect to have any.


----------



## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

Didnt you all know that the word "diesel" in automotive is the same as the word "gourmet" in the food world? 
Prices automatically double when you use one of those terms.

Ever see the insides of an engine that used Pennzoil its whole life? Looks like wax buildup throughout. Nope, never Pennzoil.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I pay $30 with tax and change it myself.
> Penz from wally


I would do that but I don’t have a lift to do it the easiest way.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

thebac said:


> Looks like wax buildup throughout.


That's funny, because I've heard the same thing said about a bunch of different oil brands. People have told me that about Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol, etc.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> I would do that but I don’t have a lift to do it the easiest way.


I don't have a lift either. 
But you can buy floor jacks for $30 from harborfreight and Walmart. 

They're not the greatest but they get the job done.

Quaker and Castrol I can see tarnish. Valvoline maybe. One can never go wrong with penz. 

You want an oil that turns black and doesn't blow pistons. If the oil isn't turning black. It's not cleaning your motor.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> I don't have a lift either.
> But you can buy floor jacks for $30 from harborfreight and Walmart.
> 
> They're not the greatest but they get the job done.
> ...


its a diesel, the oil is black within hours


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

What oil filter does the gasoline engines use? Is it a metal spin-on?

A good question would be why the Diesel engine doesn’t use the same filter or similar. I guess being a European design, cartridge filters are preferred there.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> What oil filter does the gasoline engines use? Is it a metal spin-on?
> 
> A good question would be why the Diesel engine doesn’t use the same filter or similar. I guess being a European design, cartridge filters are preferred there.


cartridge filters cost less, sure the engines of both cruzes are euro

but the fuel filter is the same cartridge for both cruzes, the baby duramaxs and the real duramaxs, though the trucks use a pair of em


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> but the fuel filter is the same cartridge for both cruzes, the baby duramaxs and the real duramaxs, though the trucks use a pair of em


Oh, I noticed the fuel filters. I asked how much to change the fuel filter: 

"$149, because the Diesel-certified technician has to do it."


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> cartridge filters cost less


They do not. 

I can buy a spin-on metal canister filter for about $6 (cheapest FRAM option - and I wouldn't buy that one) and any cartridge filter is $10. I can get some cartridge filters down to about $6-7 if I look around or get a price match on some store apps that have lower prices listed for some reason.

I wish more cars would use cartridge filters. The first one I saw was on a MB Diesel car when I had a regular customer that came in for oil changes at the shop I worked at in college. Every 2,500 miles he brought in his own filter for for like $11.88 he was out the door with 10W-30 Pennzoil. Once I saw how easy it was to change the filter on the top of the engine and put in a new o-ring, I wondered why more cars didn't do that to reduce waste. I guess our metal spin-on filters went to recycling where they were shredded and the steel was recycled, but seems that it's easier to just have the cartridge portion that goes to recycling without having to use all the energy input to recycle the steel.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I prefer my cartridges at the bottom. Sideways.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> They do not.
> 
> I can buy a spin-on metal canister filter for about $6 (cheapest FRAM option - and I wouldn't buy that one) and any cartridge filter is $10. I can get some cartridge filters down to about $6-7 if I look around or get a price match on some store apps that have lower prices listed for some reason.
> 
> I wish more cars would use cartridge filters. The first one I saw was on a MB Diesel car when I had a regular customer that came in for oil changes at the shop I worked at in college. Every 2,500 miles he brought in his own filter for for like $11.88 he was out the door with 10W-30 Pennzoil. Once I saw how easy it was to change the filter on the top of the engine and put in a new o-ring, I wondered why more cars didn't do that to reduce waste. I guess our metal spin-on filters went to recycling where they were shredded and the steel was recycled, but seems that it's easier to just have the cartridge portion that goes to recycling without having to use all the energy input to recycle the steel.


to make

and ive only used fram filters on my 3 jeeps for the last 28yrs

420k 
350k
340k

fram filters are sooo bad


----------



## 6speedTi (May 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> to make
> 
> and ive only used fram filters on my 3 jeeps for the last 28yrs
> 
> ...


Depends on the application. I used Fram on my Chevy Blazer with a 350 V8. They always seeped oil at the gasket. Never happened when using OEM AC Delco. Glad you had that many miles in your Jeeps. Hard to say that only happened because of the FRAM filters. Proper maintenance and driving habits always play a major role in vehicle longevity.


----------



## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

snowwy66 said:


> I don't have a lift either.
> But you can buy floor jacks for $30 from harborfreight and Walmart.
> ...


If you really want to be a cheapskate, most Cruzes came with a jack in the trunk.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> What oil filter does the gasoline engines use? Is it a metal spin-on?
> 
> A good question would be why the Diesel engine doesn’t use the same filter or similar. *I guess being a European design, cartridge filters are preferred ther*e.


Its actually a mixed bag just like everyone else. BMW seems to be mostly cartridge while Audi, Volvo, Range Rover, Porsche, Alfa Romero, and Jaguar use both designs based on engine. Oil fill runs from 5 - 8 quarts as well for the brands. 

What Dexos type do the gas vs diesel engines use might be part of the price difference. I was looking last week and saw GM Brand Dexos 1 for about $6.00 per quart while the GM Brand Dexos 2 price was about $13/quart.. We all know that a 5Q jug is always cheaper but they might base pricing on quart jugs instead.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

phil1734 said:


> If you really want to be a cheapskate, most Cruzes came with a jack in the trunk.


I am going to try to go even cheaper on my next change in the Cruze and not lift it all but rather use my oil extractor since the 1.4 is a top filter anyways. I will syphon it all then pull the plug to see what is left to see if I can get enough with syphoning. For my A7 I have never lifted it and drained the pan, I bought the extractor specifically for that car as I can do everything from the engine bay. For that application the extractor actually removes a bit more oil than a dump and fill because of the design of the oil pan in that the drain plug boss extends up into the pan creating a natural cup in the bottom of the pan.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

5q of penz runs $23 for dex2.


----------



## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

Valpo Cruze said:


> I am going to try to go even cheaper on my next change in the Cruze and not lift it all but rather use my oil extractor since the 1.4 is a top filter anyways. I will syphon it all then pull the plug to see what is left to see if I can get enough with syphoning. For my A7 I have never lifted it and drained the pan, I bought the extractor specifically for that car as I can do everything from the engine bay. For that application the extractor actually removes a bit more oil than a dump and fill because of the design of the oil pan in that the drain plug boss extends up into the pan creating a natural cup in the bottom of the pan.


I usually never lifted my cars to change the oil after the first time or two I did it. I just slid the catch pan under and used my lanky arms to reach the drain plug and filter if it was down there. Honestly I always found it easier because 1.) you obviously don't need a jack or jack stands, 2.) it's a lot harder to miss the catch pan when it's only 2 inches below the drain plug, and 3.) it's almost impossible for me to accidentally swing my elbow into the catch pan and send oil sloshing over the edge and onto myself and the floor.

Unfortunately, the widespread adoption of poorly engineered underbody panels is ruining my ability to do things this way.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> fram filters are sooo bad


From cutting some open when I worked on the job, the lowest price orange canister filters are not good. However, stepping up to their Extra Guard and Tough Guard (don't remember which is mid-tier and which is top-tier in the price scale) gets you a good filter.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Valpo Cruze said:


> What Dexos type do the gas vs diesel engines use might be part of the price difference. I was looking last week and saw GM Brand Dexos 1 for about $6.00 per quart while the GM Brand Dexos 2 price was about $13/quart.. We all know that a 5Q jug is always cheaper but they might base pricing on quart jugs instead.


I think the price difference is because their dexos1 oil comes in bulk. It's dispensed from hoses in the ceiling. It's synthetic, but delivered in bulk and is probably a couple dollars a quart that way.

Their dexos2 oil is AC Delco in quart bottles, and they bill $8.32 a quart. They do not get any dexos2 oil in bulk.

I was making the comparison of "the oils cost the same" because the dexos1 Pennzoil is $22.93 at Walmart for a 5-quart bottle and the dexos2 Pennzoil is the same cost.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

6speedTi said:


> Depends on the application. I used Fram on my Chevy Blazer with a 350 V8. They always seeped oil at the gasket. Never happened when using OEM AC Delco. Glad you had that many miles in your Jeeps. Hard to say that only happened because of the FRAM filters. Proper maintenance and driving habits always play a major role in vehicle longevity.


i change the oil once a yr, regardless of miles and use the cheapest non syn oil i can find

its just oil, and just a filter, not rocket science


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I'd be willing to bet they get dexos2 in bulk over 1.

More people drive gas over diesel.

Or maybe it's the other way around.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> I think the price difference is because their dexos1 oil comes in bulk. It's dispensed from hoses in the ceiling. It's synthetic, but delivered in bulk and is probably a couple dollars a quart that way.
> 
> Their dexos2 oil is AC Delco in quart bottles, and they bill $8.32 a quart. They do not get any dexos2 oil in bulk.


I'll have to look at my receipt and see what they "charged" per quart of dexos1 (0W-20) for the Volt a couple weeks ago (was $39.95 regularly, then I had a $20 off coupon from Chevrolet).


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I'd be willing to bet they get dexos2 in bulk


They do not. The oil was AC Delco in plastic bottles. The extra 0.8 quarts was given to me in a plastic bottle.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> They do not. The oil was AC Delco in plastic bottles. The extra 0.8 quarts was given to me in a plastic bottle.


I kind of wish we got our extra back. But we also didn't get charged for it either. And we have _a lot_ of diesels up in this area (which is probably why I've always been happy with their diesel service on our car), so I imagine they go through it more than some other areas.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> I kind of wish we got our extra back. But we also didn't get charged for it either.


When I worked at Walmart I got written up (more like a verbal scolding) for an argument with a customer. The cheap oil changes with bulk Pennzoil were "Up to 5 quarts" for a flat price, and the first time someone started arguing with me about the 0.7 quarts that wasn't used in their Chevy (the 3.1 V-6 engine took 4.3 quarts exactly with the filter changed). They wanted the 0.7 quart "For topping it off between services." No amount of explaining was easily getting this person to understand that it wasn't bottled oil. Finally, I said "Hold out your hands like this [demonstrated them being cupped together" and when they did I used the gun to start pumping 5W-30 into their hands. A couple ounces got splattered on the floor when they jerked their hands away.

Manager: [sigh] "OK, what were you doing that got them yelling so loud I could hear it in the office."
Me: "Giving them the extra oil from their 'Up to 5 quarts' oil change that they paid for."

After that, I started hanging onto some empty bottles from other oil changes. I just kept one or two empty Mobil 1 bottles where I crossed it out with a black Sharpie. In the rare occasions another person asked, I'd pump the 0.7 quart or whatever into one of the empty bottles and give it to them that way.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> They do not. The oil was AC Delco in plastic bottles. The extra 0.8 quarts was given to me in a plastic bottle.


Why would they buy diesel in bulk when gas is the clear winner?


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Why would they buy diesel in bulk when gas is the clear winner?


I don't know how many oil changes they do on Diesel vehicles. They don't have to buy in bulk like an amount of oil delivered with a tanker truck, into a bulk tank on the property, and then pumped overhead through hoses to dispensers. What they could do is buy a couple 55 gallon barrels of oil and use a hand pump and some plastic pitchers. That's what I did at a Valvoline oil change shop I briefly worked at. The conventional oils were dispensed from a hose and gun, but any of the synthetics were in about 4-5 different barrels in a side storage room. You'd get the oil quantity from the computer, pump that much plus about 0.25 quart more into the pitcher (graduated measurements on the side), and fill the engine with almost all of that oil. Start, check for leaks, shut down, and then top off a bit if necessary.


----------



## cruzeguy528 (Feb 2, 2021)

Auto shops make so much money, it has to be staggering. And they know they can get away with it.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

cruzeguy528 said:


> Auto shops make so much money, it has to be staggering. And they know they can get away with it.


They make a lot less than you think they do. You will have a large outlay of cash to begin with so you start a company in debt so your profit is going away to pay that debt down each month. After you pay all salaries, utilities, material cost, etc . . . there is less than 6% profit back to the company. So for a $100 repair bill, the actual shop owner makes less than $6.00 in profit. And that is assuming he is not over staffed. If the books are full that day the owner wins, if the books are less than 75% full the owner may not even break even for the day.

A McDonalds franchise might do $2.7 MIL in sales in a year but if all goes right the franchise owner will only see $150,000 or less of that in profit. It will cost at least $2 MIL to buy a franchise as well. I fully realize that a McDs is not a repair shop but its what I could find to highlight the cost of doing business.


----------



## cruzeguy528 (Feb 2, 2021)

According to AAA, auto repair labor rates vary widely across the country, and even within the same city. As of January 17, 2017, auto repair shops in the AAA Approved Auto Repair network charged between $47 and $215 per hour, based primarily on the shop’s cost of doing business.


----------



## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> They probably get enough Duramax pickups in for oil changes. It's not like the LH7 is the only engine to use that oil.


The Duramax doesn't use Dexos-x oil. Uses the same oil as all HD and light truck (full size) Diesel engines.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

DmaxMaverick said:


> The Duramax doesn't use Dexos-x oil. Uses the same oil as all HD and light truck (full size) Diesel engines.


Must be nice. Is this the secret that we know the CJ-4 and CK-4 oils work fine and don’t clog a DPF?


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Must be nice. Is this the secret that we know the CJ-4 and CK-4 oils work fine and don’t clog a DPF?



How do you know?

Cuz i could tell you ddifferently. 

It has nothing to do with oil.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> It has nothing to do with oil.


As long as the fuel used is ULSD, DPF clogging has everything to do with engine oil.

DPF came into use in 2007 and it required a switch to ULSD for that generation of emissions technology to be implemented. The oils required for use have to be very low ash content because the oil getting into the combustion chamber and flowing through the exhaust has to leave very little hard particulates. Those cannot pass through the DPF and will eventually clog it up.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> As long as the fuel used is ULSD, DPF clogging has everything to do with engine oil.
> 
> DPF came into use in 2007 and it required a switch to ULSD for that generation of emissions technology to be implemented. The oils required for use have to be very low ash content because the oil getting into the combustion chamber and flowing through the exhaust has to leave very little hard particulates. Those cannot pass through the DPF and will eventually clog it up.


Regular wear tear and excessive idle are what clog it up.

Semis idle. And work all day.

Dpf became standard in 08.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

My gassers cost like $50 to change oil.

I don’t have a diesel anymore . Which should probably tell you something. But when I did I always did it myself.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> excessive idle are what clog it up


Soot from idling can load the filter, which is separate from clogging due to inorganic material. 

Organic material that loads the filter can be burned off through regeneration. Heat it hot enough and it combusts into CO2 and flows out of the filter. 

The inorganic material will never combust and the filter will eventually be loaded up with that material to where the filter has to be manually cleaned. This means removing it and using heat and mechanical agitation (vibrating/shaking) to get as much as the inorganic material out of the filter. At some point you can't do this and the filter has to be scrapped instead of being installed for reuse after cleaning.

Any DPF will eventually load up with enough inorganic material because intake air filters are not perfect, so you will get dust flowing through the engine and being captured. Any sulfur in diesel fuel will clog the filter and that's the reason we went to ULSD of 15ppm or less. Lots of diesel fuel is 0ppm of sulfur, but some of it might have very low content and that will clog the filter after a long time. Also, some of the engine oil will combust and the ash content will be captured in the filter. For that reason we have to have oil that is as low in ash content as possible, but maybe it's not able to ever be 0% ash content.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Dpf became standard in 08.


2007 model year in the USA was when DPF became mandatory. That's why ULSD fuel became mandatory for 2007+ model year vehicles and the fuel standard was implemented then for on-road vehicles (off road vehicles came later so all fuel could be ULSD).


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> 2007 model year in the USA was when DPF became mandatory. That's why ULSD fuel became mandatory for 2007+ model year vehicles and the fuel standard was implemented then for on-road vehicles (off road vehicles came later so all fuel could be ULSD).


2008 

I drive two 2007's and neither came with dpf.
No regen button either.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I drive two 2007's and neither came with dpf.
> No regen button either.


2007 was the year for light-duty diesel engines. I.E., 3/4 and 1 ton pickups.


----------



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> 2007 was the year for light-duty diesel engines. I.E., 3/4 and 1 ton pickups.


Volvo had it also. Semis


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Volvo had it also. Semis


I don't know when it was an absolute requirement for semi tractors. There was probably some looser implementation because it was newer technology being rolled out, so there was a little bit of leeway in the deadline to get it done.

Take a look at how ULSD fuel was rolled out. On-road ULSD was required to be sold since OCT 15, 2006, and that was known far in advance so refineries and pipelines and storage could work through all the stored fuel that was LSD (500ppm or less) to get it washed out of the distribution network. Rural Alaska was given exemptions until 2010 because of limitations of fuel distribution. I think refineries in Russia were shipping and selling fuel in Alaska, so it took a while to get them to switch over to ULSD. Off-road diesel was 500ppm sulfur in 2007 (prior to that it could be 5,000ppm!) and then it was ULSD in 2010. Railroad locomotive and marine diesel fuel was 500ppm in 2007 and then ULSD in 2012. Exemptions were made for small refiners of off-road, locomotive, or marine diesel fuel that could be 500ppm all the way through 2014. After that, everything in the USA that is diesel fuel (home heating oil, marine oil, locomotive fuel, on- and off-road diesel, etc.) is now ULSD.


----------



## Johnny B (Jun 4, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> That's a weird response/experience because Mobil 1 was almost literally the best motor oil you could get in the 1990s. In terms of a synthetic oil, they were one of the first and make a genuine premium product. It isn't that Mobil 1 is no good any longer - it's that lots of other oil quality caught up to where M1 is/was and the quality of modern motor oils is incredibly good.


I try not resurrect dead posts, but this one has been on my mind. To recap my experience with Mobil 1 oil from the 90s. I bought a brand new car, and did an oil change at 500 miles. Everything was sweet. At 3000 miles I put in Mobil 1 just as winter was setting in. Within a couple days my dipstick and oil cap were completed covered in a varnish that wouldn't wipe off. The first cold day while starting the engine let out a death squeal like I have rarely heard from any car. That night, I changed out the Mobil 1 and my car ran noise free for years. But the varnish film stayed forever.
I found this post, its the same brown varnish I had.






99 Dodge Magnum 5.9 bottom end refresh


Around 100k got intermittent oil pressure lights. Soaked and cleaned pickup through drain hole - went away for awhile. Now at 150K, opened up, new plate gasket, and now into bearings. Pickup was 6/7s blocked with 'crystal'-y debris, and some (5 sq in) on block near pickup - but not a sludged up...



bobistheoilguy.com


----------

