# 15 ctd won't start or run



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

42k miles on clock, car won't start, first time car try's to start and run and actually starts but then seems like it's not getting fuel and shudders and dies. I think I am going to replace the battery and see if that helps it, if that doesn't work tow to dealer for repair. The battery seems weak after a couple attempts to start.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Ground strap?

Or more likely the EGR valve is clogged. 

Are you running a tune?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-gen1-diesel-general-discussion/98890-bad-egr-valve.html


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Tomko said:


> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-gen1-diesel-general-discussion/98890-bad-egr-valve.html


Engine wise all stock, I have no interest in a tune.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> 42k miles on clock, car won't start, first time car try's to start and run and actually starts but then seems like it's not getting fuel and shudders and dies. I think I am going to replace the battery and see if that helps it, if that doesn't work tow to dealer for repair. The battery seems weak after a couple attempts to start.


Yeah if the battery is more than 3 yrs old, that's where I'd start. Assuming you already did the negative batt cable.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Upon reflection I had a volt meter on battery and it was like 13.75, it started and wouldn't continue to run, it would shudder, after multiple tries the battery went down. Think I will remove the EGR and do an inspection. Maybe new EGR and battery, glad this occurred at home and not away from home. Will get it sorted out, my first issue of any kind. Now I just need to find the EGR


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Actually.....your description makes me wonder if you didn't get bad fuel. How long ago (miles) did you get fuel.

This 'wants to run momentarily' business has me on the fuel quality thought.

Rob


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Robby said:


> Actually.....your description makes me wonder if you didn't get bad fuel. How long ago (miles) did you get fuel.
> 
> This 'wants to run momentarily' business has me on the fuel quality thought.
> 
> Rob


I have driven over 400 miles on this tank so far, so that does not seem likely. My normal driving now is 700-1200 miles a week, so I have a fresh tank of fuel at least once a week.

Just changed to a new fuel filter a couple weeks ago and about 2000 miles ago.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Throttle valve can get stuck too.

I think it's fairly easy to nudge the intercooler pipe out of the way. A few screwdriver taps can free it if it's stuck.

But really it should give you a cel... why not just read it and then you won't have to guess....


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Big shout of thanks to Tomko for suggesting it could be the EGR Valve. It was quite dirty with soot and stuck open. Took it out and cleaned with MAF cleaner and a small brush, reinstalled and car runs well.

For others with diesels it would start, it felt and sounded like it wasn't running on all cylinders and prior to the engine dieing there was a sounds of air gasping I guess I would call it.

I did purchase a new AGM battery, just haven't installed it yet.

I will write up a little procedure on what I did and the tools necessary to make it easier for others. If this continues to work properly this will be a preventative maintenance item for me, takes 45-60 minutes to do first time, might be a little less next time.

Also a big thanks to my neighbor for helping, we work well together, he has better mechanical skills and lots more tools than I have. I can do it next time if needed.

Also the forum is still a place to learn about your car, gas or diesel. One of our previous very active members @diesel also gave me some guidance as well, we text now and again, I miss him on the forum but appreciate his willingness to help.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

@IndyDiesel, Super glad it's fixed so quickly and easily, thanks for keeping us updated. 

I miss @diesel and his contributions. Text him hi for me.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

The EGR for those that do not know is on driver side back of engine down a few inches. It's black and has a red electrical connection.

Tools needed are a T30 or torx 30, really need 3-4 inch extension. I picked one up at Sears in some silly kit for 20 bucks.

1.) remove the electrical connection, just tab on top.

2) use the T30 to remove the two long fine thread screws, one on top which you can see, and one on bottom which 
Can't see.

3) there is a bracket and a line and hoses that are in the way, rotate the EGR counter clockwise maybe a quarter turn so you can remove the EGR.

4) I cleaned mine, gm new ones are on eBay for 125, either clean really well or replace with new one.

5) reinstall and connect electrical connection. I tested mine not in to make sure it would close prior to putting back in car, kinda smells with smoke to do that. I also lubricants the valve shaft with some brake exhaust lubricant, it was thick. I made sure to clean well and make sure the valve moved freely.

It is a pretty easy job, I will in future remove and clean maybe every 35-40k miles and may even have a spare valve in the car in case I have an issue like @Gator had on vacation. I think if you clean it on regular basis would never have a problem.

I buy my fuel at just three stations most of the time. I drive mostly highway.

Hope this helps.


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## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

Thats great you got it fixed. Ive been trouble free since it was replaced. 165000 on the car now


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Wow thanks for the info and pic.
Cheers.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

title should be edited to reflect the repair

no one in the future will find it otherwise


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> title should be edited to reflect the repair
> 
> no one in the future will find it otherwise


That's fine on my side. I also plan to show a pic of what EGR looks like installed and it's location on the engine. Prior to this problem, I didn't know where it was located. 

I left my little tool pack in the trunk, just in case I ever need to remove on the road.

The forum and all saved me several hundred $$$ since no tow bill and the dealer just replacing the valve vs cleaning it.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> That's fine on my side. I also plan to show a pic of what EGR looks like installed and it's location on the engine. Prior to this problem, I didn't know where it was located.
> 
> I left my little tool pack in the trunk, just in case I ever need to remove on the road.
> 
> The forum and all saved me several hundred $$$ since no tow bill and the dealer just replacing the valve vs cleaning it.


assuming you reused the gasket?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> assuming you reused the gasket?


I did, would be better to replace


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I did, would be better to replace


is it traditional gasket material or ?


i considered inspecting my egr couple mos ago, but didnt wanna screw the gasket up


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> is it traditional gasket material or ?
> 
> 
> i considered inspecting my egr couple mos ago, but didnt wanna screw the gasket up


I didn't even look...should have...I did test the EGR to make sure it would close just by hooking up the EGR not installed, yikes it's a smoky mess, shut car off quickly. Amazing it lasted as long as it did. The emission system has issues for sure, but dang it cleans up the soot and mess pretty well


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

We did rotate the EGR so it's possible it could mess the gasket up. There is crap right in the way on the top bolt. It's not a hard job, just order a gasket before you start the job, clean it and reinstall. The peace of mind is worth it. I had zero warning I was going to have a problem.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> We did rotate the EGR so it's possible it could mess the gasket up. There is crap right in the way on the top bolt. It's not a hard job, just order a gasket before you start the job, clean it and reinstall. The peace of mind is worth it. I had zero warning I was going to have a problem.


gasket is too expensive (canada)

bought the car with intent of spending $0 on emissions repairs.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> gasket is too expensive (canada)
> 
> bought the car with intent of spending $0 on emissions repairs.


I think will be fine w/o replacing, I haven't had any issues or leaks

I don't want to jinx it but other than this EGR issue, I spent 20 bucks for the tools to remove and repair, still have the tools, I haven't spent anything on my car other than two oil changes, fuel filter replacement, cabin filter, air filter. Less than $200 for 42,500 miles. I haven't even paid for DEF yet. I have zero complaints about this car so far.


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## dougc905 (May 24, 2015)

The gasket costs CDN $21 from Rockauto. Add it to a filter order.

I wonder if this egr soot problem has to do with driving style. I usually just go with the flow. In 90,000 km I have experience no problems with my car excepting the def tank heater and the NOx sensor. I generally buy fuel from wherever it is cheapest and not out of my way. There cannot be a difference between fuel in the US and in Canada. In fact, the fuel is probably sourced across the border (either way) depending upon demand.



boraz said:


> gasket is too expensive (canada)
> 
> bought the car with intent of spending $0 on emissions repairs.


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## dougc905 (May 24, 2015)

This picture doesn't match the picture of the gasket on Rockauto's site. I wonder if they are using a generic picture? Is it possible that you didn't remove the whole egr unit but rather split it?




IndyDiesel said:


> View attachment 240794
> 
> 
> The EGR for those that do not know is on driver side back of engine down a few inches. It's black and has a red electrical connection.
> ...


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## dougc905 (May 24, 2015)

The gasket on Rockauto's site must be used to split the unit. In this case, they do not list a gasket in their catalog to mount the entire valve unit to the manifold.

The entire egr unit.

The gasket that they show.

Am I missing something?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I think will be fine w/o replacing, I haven't had any issues or leaks
> 
> I don't want to jinx it but other than this EGR issue, I spent 20 bucks for the tools to remove and repair, still have the tools, I haven't spent anything on my car other than two oil changes, fuel filter replacement, cabin filter, air filter. Less than $200 for 42,500 miles. I haven't even paid for DEF yet. I have zero complaints about this car so far.


youre overdue for trans fluid


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

dougc905 said:


> The gasket costs CDN $21 from Rockauto. Add it to a filter order.
> 
> I wonder if this egr soot problem has to do with driving style. I usually just go with the flow. In 90,000 km I have experience no problems with my car excepting the def tank heater and the NOx sensor. I generally buy fuel from wherever it is cheapest and not out of my way. There cannot be a difference between fuel in the US and in Canada. In fact, the fuel is probably sourced across the border (either way) depending upon demand.


lol

fuel in usa has less lubricity than canada

the vw hpfp fiasco didnt play out in canada as it did in usa, same cars, different fuel.

the $21 gasket comes with $17 shipping

hence its not $21 anymore.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> youre overdue for trans fluid


It's on my list of things to address, I work a lot. Plan to do by 50k.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

dougc905 said:


> The gasket on Rockauto's site must be used to split the unit. In this case, they do not list a gasket in their catalog to mount the entire valve unit to the manifold.
> 
> The entire egr unit.
> 
> ...


Don't know anything about rockauto gasket. I removed the EGR.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

I've been thinking about cleaning the EGR, dont have problems with it yet but have 71k miles and was going to do it as PM. I haven't resolve the gasket question but the one listed on Rockauto is not the correct one. Also I was able to get a new EGR from ebay for $50. So I can go either way depending if I have time for cleaning or just want to make it a quick job and replace with new. I need to check out a dealer for the gasket though, pretty expensive at around $50 from what I read?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

theonlypheonix said:


> I've been thinking about cleaning the EGR, dont have problems with it yet but have 71k miles and was going to do it as PM. I haven't resolve the gasket question but the one listed on Rockauto is not the correct one. Also I was able to get a new EGR from ebay for $50. So I can go either way depending if I have time for cleaning or just want to make it a quick job and replace with new. I need to check out a dealer for the gasket though, pretty expensive at around $50 from what I read?


If I had a new EGR for that price, I would probably use the new one and clean and use the used for for a spare. I would have preferred to replace the gasket, and honestly didn't think about it. I will pull the EGR off again to clean sometime down the road and will replace the gasket then.


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## NHRA (Oct 12, 2014)

Get a small roll of gasket material from an auto parts store for $5 and cut one out with an exacto knife yourself.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> If I had a new EGR for that price, I would probably use the new one and clean and use the used for for a spare. I would have preferred to replace the gasket, and honestly didn't think about it. I will pull the EGR off again to clean sometime down the road and will replace the gasket then.


If I had nearly 30k of powertrain/emissions warranty left, I'd put the new one on the shelf and clean the old one.



NHRA said:


> Get a small roll of gasket material from an auto parts store for $5 and cut one out with an exacto knife yourself.


Are we talking about the gasket at the intake end (maybe shouldn't be a paper gasket) or the gasket at the exhaust end (absolutely has to be an exhaust grade gasket)?


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## NHRA (Oct 12, 2014)

Then i would just use the black high temp silicone called,THE RIGHT STUFF


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

@IndyDiesel What did you use to clean it? Carb cleaner, or brake cleaner?

My wife has just told me (which means it's probably been happening for months) that sometimes it has to turn over a good few times (after the glow-plug light turns off) before it starts. Combine that with it starting and then running rough, and I wouldn't be surprised if this thing is getting close to clogging shut.

Given that we're going on vacation tomorrow, for 9 days (3.5 hours away, plus a lot of driving around up there), it might be worthwhile for me to pull this out and give it a good once over. Might improve fuel economy, too.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> @IndyDiesel What did you use to clean it? Carb cleaner, or brake cleaner?
> 
> My wife has just told me (which means it's probably been happening for months) that sometimes it has to turn over a good few times (after the glow-plug light turns off) before it starts. Combine that with it starting and then running rough, and I wouldn't be surprised if this thing is getting close to clogging shut.
> 
> Given that we're going on vacation tomorrow, for 9 days (3.5 hours away, plus a lot of driving around up there), it might be worthwhile for me to pull this out and give it a good once over. Might improve fuel economy, too.


I used MAF cleaner, I think anything like that will work, mine was stuck open. It's not super difficult. I used a plastic brush on the outside, filled the open cavity where the valve is with fluid and let it set for a couple minutes. Then make sure it's all dry before putting it back on. I had some high temp brake exhaust lubricant I put a small drop on the valve to help it move freely. I would guess yours is dirty. The only real tool needed is a Torx 30 with an extension of 3-4 inches. Good luck


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I should have a Torx 30, and definitely have a foot and a half of extensions. Doesn't sound too awful to do, thankfully. It just needs to not be raining. 

Thanks!


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I should have a Torx 30, and definitely have a foot and a half of extensions. Doesn't sound too awful to do, thankfully. It just needs to not be raining.
> 
> Thanks!


Please take a pic of your EGR when you remove. Brake cleaner, any of that should work, I just used what I had.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Will try and remember to do that. I like to document everything, so it would not be normal for me to forget.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

For reference, I made a new thread, since I kind of went into the intake as well...couldn't get access to the top bolt (hard lines in the way, blocking the T-30 Socket), but did tackle the throttle plate, as well as the inlet to the intake...which was disgusting.

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g.../210810-my-egr-throttle-plate-experience.html


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