# Trade for a Volt?



## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

What warranty is still on the Volt? See if they give you 3 years OnStar as 2nd owner still. 

Seats are more comfortable cloth wise, haven't sat in a leather one yet. Cloth seats in the Cruze also feel better than leather for some odd reason. 

Do you still get tax credit or is that new vehicle ownership?

As for reliability, isn't it too soon to know about the battery replacement on this car yet?


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Merc6 said:


> What warranty is still on the Volt? See if they give you 3 years OnStar as 2nd owner still.
> 
> Seats are more comfortable cloth wise, haven't sat in a leather one yet. Cloth seats in the Cruze also feel better than leather for some odd reason.
> 
> ...


No tax credit for used, however, the tax credit crushes the value of the used cars so a used one is more in line with normal cars. Like I said, I paid more for a three-year old non-premium Subaru Outback with nearly 40,000 miles (at the peak of the used car marked a couple years ago), than I can pick up this three-year old Volt for with 30,000 miles.

Since it is Certified Used, it comes with 12-month/12,000 mile bumper-to-bumper and all other longer warranties transfer to new owner.

The jury is still out on the batteries. However, batteries have been proven with the Prius to go a lot longer than many expected, and GM engineered these very conservatively. They only discharge to roughly 20% capacity and only charge to roughly 80% capacity of the battery and are heavily controlled, so their life should be considerable (Lithium batteries are mostly damaged by overdraining and overcharging). 

Also, I figure between the cost savings of the no timing belt/water pump changes and the seemingly higher likelihood of of expensive problems with the EGR/DPF/SCR on the diesel, a potential battery change is likely no more expensive than the diesel maintenance after 200,000 miles. Yes, the Volt is an expensive, complex car, but the diesel also has a lot of high-dollar parts (entire emissions system, turbo, injectors, HPFP, etc.). Obviously either car could have catastrophic failure, but that's a total crapshoot.

Finally, I couldn't care less about OnStar. I don't use mine as it is and never have on any car I've owned.

Another side note: as Certified Used, the Volt comes with 2 more years and 24k miles of maintenance same as the brand-new diesels do.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

PanJet said:


> No tax credit for used, however, the tax credit crushes the value of the used cars so a used one is more in line with normal cars.


I noticed this was well, Could not believe how cheap I could buy a used volt for. 

I think you might be disappointed in what the dealer will give your for trade, even if you get good dollars I still wouldn't do it. reason? The all new 2016 volt is only like 6 months off. Besides it being better in every way it will devalue the current volt models significantly I think.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

spacedout said:


> I noticed this was well, Could not believe how cheap I could buy a used volt for.
> 
> I think you might be disappointed in what the dealer will give your for trade, even if you get good dollars I still wouldn't do it. reason? The all new 2016 volt is only like 6 months off. Besides it being better in every way it will devalue the current volt models significantly I think.


I won't be disappointed. I know what they try to pull off, and I have no illusions. My once naive self took my 2004 Impala and tried to trade it for a nearly identical SS model of the same year. Nearly every single feature about the car was identical to mine save for the SS had a supercharger and different wheels. Brand new the two cars had been $2,000 difference in MSRP. Mine (3 years old at the time) had 10,000 fewer miles and was unquestionably in much better shape both aesthetically and mechanically. They wanted $12,000 for a trade. Since I wasn't all that serious anyway, I told them to go pound sand, and pointed out I'd be doing them a favor by trading strait-up. Despite my curiosity of having a more "sporty" version of my car, I walked away with the better car.

Like I said, I have a number in mind that is very unrealistic, so I don't expect them to meet it, but if they do, it'd be tempting. 

The 2016 did come to mind, although I have a feeling if it is priced as low as some people think it will be, it will drive down the Cruze values as well, so I end up in the same spot.

Long story short, I don't expect to make the trade, but the thought is intriguing.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

You already find a spot in the garage to add the plug? Volt seems like a car I could deal with so long as I don't need an engineer to come visit the my car at the dealership often. I would end up with black so the black under the windows would blend in better. I know there were people saying tow companies refuse to touch a Prius in fear of a voltage shock hazard, was that the same with the Volt?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

The way the electric cars keep evolving, I think a lease(if the mileage works) makes way more sense. Heck If I didn't enjoy driving my cruze so much I would have leased it and would be getting a new car in a few months already(will be 36 months since I got my 2012 cruze in april).


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

spacedout said:


> I think you might be disappointed in what the dealer will give your for trade


I agree with spacedout. I have a feeling you will be disappointed with what they offer for a trade for the CTD. Due largely to GM's lack of marketing, these diesel Cruze's have been siting on dealer lots for months. This will lower the trade in value a lot because dealers don't want something that they will have a hard time flipping. 

As for the Volt I think if you are happy with the price and cost to trade go for it! 
It sounds like it fits your commute better than the CTD.


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## Ashokan1 (Dec 31, 2013)

I test drove a Volt before we purchased our 2014 CTD and liked it a lot. But much depends on your driving needs as you described and it didn't make sense for us. We are in a similar driving situation as you described before your move. The new Volt should be coming out soon with longer range and improvements. With the tax credit it may prove to be a good deal and worth waiting. The tax credit is good but only if you can use it to offset your taxes in the year of purchase. Too bad that credit can't be applied for several years so consumers in a lower tax bracket could more easily afford the Volt.


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## UlyssesSG (Apr 5, 2011)

.
Crunch the numbers honestly and I'll bet you'd be better off to keep the Cruze Diesel and pass on the pre-owned Volt. If somewhere down the road a Volt it must be, then I'd strongly advise waiting for the Volt 2.0 which will easily outshine and outdate the existing model.

​


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

IMO, keep the Cruze.......although the Volt is quite capable for road trips I don't find them near as comfortable or quiet as the Cruze......Quiet means the sounds/vibrations of the Volt engine running after 40 or so miles.

If in your shoes, I'd park the Volt alongside the Cruze......Cruze becomes the very economical 'Trip' car, Volt becomes the daily grinder.

The Cruze resale will stabilize around year three.......by then you'll know if your experiment (2 operating cars.....I assume the Subi is just a toy) is the way to go......your Cruze should be a rather low mileage, minty fresh example at that point and a easy private sale.

Just a suggestion......I own lots of cars....the Cruze, to me, is what the Volt would be to you.

Rob


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## SunnyinHollister (Mar 17, 2011)

You don't say where you are located at. One of the things with the Volt is that in cold weather, your range will suffer considerably when using the electric heater. If you live in a mild climate like we do, that will be a non-issue. 

On my wife's Volt, according to the trip computer it has used 13.1 gallons of gas in a little over 9500 miles. That comes out to ~725 MPG. We have solar panels on the house so that would skew electricity cost. I also charge free at work when I take it. 

Also would you have the ability to install a Level 2 charger where you are at now? We found that after installing the Level 2 charger that our fuel consumption went down because there were several instances when we used the car, but it was not fully charged from the previous trip.

As far as maintenance goes, I did the first oil change after 18 months simply because I could not stand it any more. The OLM was still at 76%. The next oil change will be in about another year. With our driving style and regenerative braking, the brakes should last longer than the battery. Same goes for the air filter, drive belts, spark plugs, ect. It might need a coolant flush simply because of age. Since the battery is not fully utilized on every charge and it does have a temperature management system, it should last a while.

Hope this helps


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I am in a somewhat similar situation. As I approach 100K miles on my CTD, I have been thinking about getting something new to replace it. I have done a lot of various analysis but at the end of the day, I still love the CTD, it remains reliable and will likely hold on to it and continue to rack up the miles.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

PanJet said:


> The jury is still out on the batteries. However, batteries have been proven with the Prius to go a lot longer than many expected, and GM engineered these very conservatively. They only discharge to roughly 20% capacity and only charge to roughly 80% capacity of the battery and are heavily controlled, so their life should be considerable (Lithium batteries are mostly damaged by overdraining and overcharging).


From what I've read on the Volt battery strategy, when new the car charges the pack to 80% and depletes it to 30%. It only uses about 50% of the battery's capacity. The car will, when needed, deplete farther than 30% when additional power beyond the range extender's 77hp is required, but will immediately top it back up and maintain it at 30%.

As the battery's capacity diminishes with age and charge/discharge cycling, the controller will use a greater percentage of the battery's capacity to maintain the range at the same level as new. For example, charging to 90% and depleting to 25%, then 100% and 20% (20% discharge is my guess). At this point the battery will start losing its range ability. GM warrants the battery to have its advertised range for 8 full years, the point where range begins to deplete. After that, a steady slow loss of range would be expected and considered normal.

This is in contrast to the Leaf. As far as I know, the Leaf uses a much higher portion of its total capacity during normal use and will begin to lose range much sooner, following the more typical life cycle curve for a lithium cell.

This is just one more area where GM marketing has failed MISERABLY at educating potential customers about how well the Volt is Engineered. It's an amazing car from an Engineering perspective, it's just up to car shoppers to figure out the financials and whether they make sense (it IS expensive). If I had lots of money I would likely have bought a Volt instead of a Cruze. I say "likely" because I really REALLY like shifting my own gears.


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## SunnyinHollister (Mar 17, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> From what I've read on the Volt battery strategy, when new the car charges the pack to 80% and depletes it to 30%. It only uses about 50% of the battery's capacity. The car will, when needed, deplete farther than 30% when additional power beyond the range extender's 77hp is required, but will immediately top it back up and maintain it at 30%.
> 
> This is in contrast to the Leaf. As far as I know, the Leaf uses a much higher portion of its total capacity during normal use and will begin to lose range much sooner, following the more typical life cycle curve for a lithium cell.
> 
> This is just one more area where GM marketing has failed MISERABLY at educating potential customers about how well the Volt is Engineered. It's an amazing car from an Engineering perspective, it's just up to car shoppers to figure out the financials and whether they make sense (it IS expensive). If I had lots of money I would likely have bought a Volt instead of a Cruze. I say "likely" because I really REALLY like shifting my own gears.


From what I understand, the Volt battery pack is 16kwh and a full charge is 10kwh. The problem with the Leaf was the lack of a battery temperature management system. It does not have a cooling system like the Volt or Tesla that keeps the battery temperature tightly controlled during charging and discharge. Or in a hot car during the middle of summer in locations like Las Vegas or Arizona.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

SunnyinHollister said:


> From what I understand, the Volt battery pack is 16kwh and a full charge is 10kwh.


You must also account for the efficiency of the charge/discharge process. Pulling 10kwh from the wall may only add 9kwh of useful energy to the battery if the charging process is 90% efficient. I have no idea if 90% is an accurate figure, just putting it out there. 

Also, the 30/80 percent charge was based on, I believe, GM material that was published at the time of the car's release. The data published is quite often different by some degree from the real world reality.

Reading a little more, I see one claim on the GM Volt forum that the charge/discharge range is 20-85%. Hmm... gonna have to look into this farther.


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## gordon russell (Jan 2, 2015)

PJ, go for what you want. I've enjoyed my last three vehicles,Silverado stick shift.SSR 400hp.
F150 4wd.they all served a purpose I needed. It sounds like a Volt would work good for you.
I love my new CTD and it will be excellent for trips from San Diego to Bradleyville Mo.
Off topic, any tips on moving?? The Cruze will hold my toolbox and cloths, my dog likes to ride
shotgun. My partner has a whole house full of stuff!


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. Lots of good ideas and information. As I mentioned earlier, I was only half-serious (if even) about trading, but I wanted to share my thoughts on here to get other thoughts. I'm glad I did.

For those who are curious what their CTD is worth, the dealer got back to me and offered $15,600 for it on trade. They would want $5,000 to trade to the pre-owned Volt before any negotiating. This is almost exactly what I expected. My ideal, unrealistic number in my head is much lower. I am not even going to try.

I decided last night I don't know if I even want to trade. I probably would if the price was too good to pass up because of the potential savings on fuel, but after test driving the Volt and then hopping in my CTD and driving home, I realized I really love my CTD. The Volt is great too, but the CTD is honestly a tough act to follow. I would really miss it.

Here's to many good miles and years with my CTD.



gordon russell said:


> Off topic, any tips on moving?? The Cruze will hold my toolbox and cloths, my dog likes to ride
> shotgun. My partner has a whole house full of stuff!


Yeah, sell all of your furniture on Craigslist, move in as small of trailer/truck you can possibly get by with for the personal/small items you can't do without, and buy new/used furniture where you end up. Moving sucks and is very expensive. Disclaimer: I did not do that, but I wish I had. You can buy a lot of good new/used furniture for what it costs to rent a truck + fuel or pay a moving service if you're moving long distance.


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## dirt dauber (Dec 24, 2014)

also the dealer has to install the battery charger system in your garage for the volt,last time I saw the price it was around $4,000 dollars.
too muchmoney for a carwith a 75 mil range on a full charge


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

It's 38 mile, 50 mile for the new gen 2


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

dirt dauber said:


> also the dealer has to install the battery charger system in your garage for the volt,last time I saw the price it was around $4,000 dollars.


You can charge the Volt on a regular 120V household outlet. The charging stations are for those who want/need faster charging.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

dirt dauber said:


> also the dealer has to install the battery charger system in your garage for the volt,last time I saw the price it was around $4,000 dollars.
> too muchmoney for a carwith a 75 mil range on a full charge


The Volt can be plugged into a normal 110v outlet, although it takes 10-14 hours to do a full-charge from empty on normal 110v. 

I don't know the cost of installing the fast charger. $4,000 seems a bit steep though. I would think you could purchase it and have an electrician install it for far less than that. 

Either way it doesn't matter, I'm keeping the Cruze.


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## SunnyinHollister (Mar 17, 2011)

It takes about 10 hours for our 2012 Volt for a full charge on a depleted battery using 120VAC. 

The Level 2 charger is $500:

GM Voltec EVSE | Plug In America

And no, the dealer does not need to install it. The dealer is not a licensed electrician. If you have the ability to do some basic wiring the installation cost is negligible. 

I would keep the diesel also given the negative equity. Besides the value of the used Volts will be dropping given the increase in range on the 2016 and the lower price. Revisit it in a couple years to see if it would work for you.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

i love the anti-volt misinformation in this thread 

and the truth that came out.

i absolutely cross shopped volt when i bought the cruze diesel, and yep my driving needs changed so that now the volt would be a better fit.

but im eggspecting another change in the next month or so, so im not worried aboot it just yet.


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## UlyssesSG (Apr 5, 2011)

boraz said:


> i love the anti-volt misinformation in this thread.


*boraz*,
Would you please describe and correct the anti-Volt misinformation you reference in this thread? Given a BAS mild hybrid Cruze Eco doesn't appear to be in GM's product plans and given my lack of a suitable shop where I could attempt to cobble one together, my next Cruze may actually be a Volt 2.0 and I'm interested in learning all I can about the Volt and Voltec technology.

Thanks. 
- -
Ulysses





​


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Being a degreed Electronic Engineer (who no longer works in the field) I see a lot of expensive problems at some point in the future knowing how automotive electronics tend to be designed and built along with the enviroments they are subject to. At least in the long run for those who hang on to vehicles beyond 8+ years. Heck look at 10 or 20 year old Mercedes cars (using this example as I actually LOVE the really old pre-computer Mercedes). Lots of electrical gremlins creap in with age, and the more complexity the more and worse the problems. Not serious issues for people that rarely have cars much older than 6-8 years. (Yeah I know even the Cruze Diesel or any of the other ones will be dealing with these very issues as well)


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

I'm going to carefully watch as Volt 1.0 ages more and also as Volt 2.0 hits the road.

At least on paper, Volt 2.0 offers some great benefits, although none of which I really need. The added electric range would be lost on me as I rarely would use more than 75% (probably closer to 65%) of the range of the original Volt on a typical day. I live in a temparate climate in western Oregon, so no huge climate control taxing on the battery either. 

That said, I am somewhat fearful that Volt 2.0 might be a cheapened version of Volt 1.0. Volt 1.0 was engineered as if GM's life depended on it, because, let's face it, in an odd way it kind of did. They were produced at a loss to GM. No detail was spared in GM's first legitimate foray into the EV world of the 21st Century.

Sure, technology has advanced and allowed for more affordable battery technology in the intervening years, so Volt 2.0 would naturally be better. However, Volt 2.0 is facing much more competition in the EV world than Volt 1.0 did. At the same time GM is trying to make the car more affordable and start to think about weaning the public off of tax credits. In not too many years, fewer if Volt sales pick up, tax credits will no longer be available for Volt buyers as Chevy hits the 200,000 eligible sales threshold. 

GM supposedly was targeting $10,000 of costs to cut out of the Volt for Volt 2.0. Hopefully that hasn't been done at the expense of quality.

2016 Chevrolet Volt Will Turn A Profit For General Motors | GM Authority

Who knows. Maybe in 2-3 years I'll pick up a nice used 2014-15 Volt for a good bargain.


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## AZ007 (Sep 26, 2014)

I can understand why you want to keep the CTD but here are a couple things to think about:

1. With a 10-mile drive, you're barely warming up the engine. I guess that's why your mpg isn't that great comparatively.
2. The Cruze is a great car but it didn't get a 95% owner satisfaction rating like the Volt. I have a feeling the Volt would grow on you.
3. Looking at the bigger picture, would you rather encourage EV tech or diesel tech? Would you rather see oil prices rise or fall?

I want to get my fiance a Volt in a couple years. She does 90% city driving in a 1.8L Sonic auto... still getting 32 mpg, which is pretty good. I think I'll keep my Cruze because I like the manual and my fuel costs are like 6c/mile or something. (gas is cheap in New Mexico)


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> You can charge the Volt on a regular 120V household outlet. The charging stations are for those who want/need faster charging.


While true the higher voltage charging station is actually more efficient and uses less energy. I don't think it's $4,000 more efficient however.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

It was already posted that it was only $500


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

money_man said:


> It was already posted that it was only $500
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


Does the $500 include the installation cost?


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Ha, definitely not with the company I work for it wouldn't. He said that was just for the stage 2 charger. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

PanJet said:


> Yeah, sell all of your furniture on Craigslist, move in as small of trailer/truck you can possibly get by with for the personal/small items you can't do without, and buy new/used furniture where you end up. Moving sucks and is very expensive. Disclaimer: I did not do that, but I wish I had. You can buy a lot of good new/used furniture for what it costs to rent a truck + fuel or pay a moving service if you're moving long distance.


That's funny, I know a guy that did this last weekend. He's a little off (dragboat racer) who has made a small fortune in the oil patch. About a month ago he went to Havasu to visit during his off time and decided to move. He listed everything as an estate sale on a local area Facebook site that's like small version of Craigslist and sold everything in the house before the sale date.


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## SunnyinHollister (Mar 17, 2011)

obermd said:


> Does the $500 include the installation cost?


Do you really think that installing the equivalent of a dryer circuit will cost you $3500?


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

AZ007 said:


> 1. With a 10-mile drive, you're barely warming up the engine. I guess that's why your mpg isn't that great comparatively.


I don't live in a terribly cold climate anymore. Even on the coldest days, my temp gauge is usually at full operating temp within three-four miles. My mileage isn't terrible, still low 30's for a mostly city commute, which exceeds the expectations of the diesel. The simple fact is it is a better highway car, but still does fine in the city.



AZ007 said:


> 2. The Cruze is a great car but it didn't get a 95% owner satisfaction rating like the Volt. I have a feeling the Volt would grow on you.


I'm sure that's true, but I already know I like the Cruze, so what 95% of Volt owners think doesn't matter to me. I drove them both within an hour's time yesterday, and quite frankly, I preferred the Cruze. Besides, ultimately it's about money to me. Sure, the Volt will save me money on fuel, but at what I would have to pay to trade, it would take a really long time to pay off.



AZ007 said:


> 3. Looking at the bigger picture, would you rather encourage EV tech or diesel tech? Would you rather see oil prices rise or fall?


They both have their place. Like I said before, I bought the Cruze when I was in a situation where a Volt would not have been ideal (long commute, very cold climate, no place to charge at work). The Volt would have run out of charge less than halfway through the drive to work for my wife and be running on (premium) gas (less efficiently than the CTD does on diesel) the other 3/4 of her daily commute. Plus, I got the CTD for at least $5,000 less than what I would have had to pay for a lightly equipped Volt including the tax credit. It made no sense to get a Volt then.

If I were buying one today, I'd without a doubt get a Volt over a CTD given my commuting situation. However, I already have the CTD, I really like it, and it would cost me probably a minimum of $3,000 to trade to a older car. It just doesn't make sense to trade my car that's just a little over a year old. I'll continue to drive the CTD.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

SunnyinHollister said:


> Do you really think that installing the equivalent of a dryer circuit will cost you $3500?


It shouldn't, but I wouldn't be surprised to see price gouging on this.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Wonder how the used ELR's are doing, I barely see the new ones leave the lot.


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## SunnyinHollister (Mar 17, 2011)

obermd said:


> It shouldn't, but I wouldn't be surprised to see price gouging on this.


Then find an honest electrician or do it yourself. It's really not that difficult.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

An honest electrician is like finding an honest mechanic in Canada. Pick any electrician and you'll be good


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

SunnyinHollister said:


> Do you really think that installing the equivalent of a dryer circuit will cost you $3500?


That depends on how hard (time consuming) it is to run power to your garage and how far the electric panel is away. In some cases you may even need a new panel to fit the additional circuit breaker. There is the potential for it to easily cost $3500. I would guess much less in most cases though.


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