# Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor: caution on DIC



## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Tomko said:


> So yesterday the DIC brings up the following message:
> 
> *Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor
> 
> ...


is this an updated tank ??


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

oilburner said:


> is this an updated tank ??


That is the new reservoir, yes, replacing 22978800.

I have a new one sitting in my dining room that I bought for ours, until GM helped out and paid for the dealer to replace it when we had our problem.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Hmm wounder if the 2015 ctd like mine is updated #.. I just for first time topped mine off at the truck stop... Truckers looked at me wierd then they asked what the heck im doing. Showed them and they are like wtf they are even messing with small diesels


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

So what is the theory why your def tank failed? Think the heater element went out? Not even sure why it would heat the fluid in the summer?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> So what is the theory why your def tank failed? Think the heater element went out? Not even sure why it would heat the fluid in the summer?


I'm not sure I even have a theory. 

Naturally the dealer first went to the obvious - bad DEF. But since the DEF tank hadn't been filled since October 2015 - and the bad DEF caution never appeared before - it was hard to argue that the DEF was bad. I did ask if they tested the DEF and was told that they didn't have a DEF tester. That surprised me. 

But I don't get why TAC instructed a forced regen. I didn't think that the DPF and DEF injector were related. 

If the tank heater element was faulty then it would have set the appropriate code. But there were no codes. 

Maybe the DEF pump in the tank was flaky? 

Maybe the revised tank part number was intended to address occurrences like this?

Another mystery to me was how my dealership was able to place their hands on a new DEF tank so quickly. I brought my car in around 2:30 on Thursday afternoon. By 8:30 Friday morning the car was fixed. With people waiting months to get this part how could my dealership do it in 18 hours?

My service advisor told me that they added new DEF to my reservoir - but the invoice doesn't mention this or any related part numbers. Maybe they had a partial bottle available in the shop and just dumped it in for good measure. FWIW, today the DIC says DEF level OK. 

I am very glad to have a close relationship with my dealership and that they trusted me when I truthfully told them that the DEF was last filled 11 months ago from the bulk dispenser at the truck stop. I think a lot of dealerships would have called BS on that and claimed (falsely) that I had contaminated my DEF tank with questionable fluid. 

To be honest, if I was working on their side of the counter, I think that I would have done just that and blamed the operator.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Tomko said:


> I'm not sure I even have a theory.
> 
> Naturally the dealer first went to the obvious - bad DEF. But since the DEF tank hadn't been filled since October 2015 - and the bad DEF caution never appeared before - it was hard to argue that the DEF was bad. I did ask if they tested the DEF and was told that they didn't have a DEF tester. That surprised me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the back story. I think service advisors probably know when we are sharing bad information, I will be taking mine for service in the next 30 days. I have slowed down on the short trips in my CTD, use it more for road trips. What type of driving do you use your CTD for?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> Thanks for the back story. I think service advisors probably know when we are sharing bad information, I will be taking mine for service in the next 30 days. I have slowed down on the short trips in my CTD, use it more for road trips. What type of driving do you use your CTD for?


It gets a pretty good mix of city and highway. But the past two months there's been a ton of construction around here so it is mostly stop and go, even on the highway.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Reading through all of this makes me wonder if the reservoir contains not only a heater, but the sensor to determine if the DEF quality is poor? I seem to remember that it was a combination of sensors that checked something before and after DEF injection and compared the values. Anybody know?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> Reading through all of this makes me wonder if the reservoir contains not only a heater, but the sensor to determine if the DEF quality is poor? I seem to remember that it was a combination of sensors that checked something before and after DEF injection and compared the values. Anybody know?


As I recall there is no DEF quality sensor per se. There are sensors that measure the outcome of DEF treatment and in that way the efficacy of the DEF itself is assessed. 

Perhaps this is changed with the new part number. But doing so would imply a programming change. And no where on my work order does it mention any software updates or programming.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Another mystery to me was how my dealership was able to place their hands on a new DEF tank so quickly. I brought my car in around 2:30 on Thursday afternoon. By 8:30 Friday morning the car was fixed. With people waiting months to get this part how could my dealership do it in 18 hours?


DEF _tank_ or DEF _reservoir_? 

They had the reservoir for our car in a day or two. 

I think the tank is what had the long wait, not the reservoir.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

diesel said:


> Reading through all of this makes me wonder if the reservoir contains not only a heater, but the sensor to determine if the DEF quality is poor? I seem to remember that it was a combination of sensors that checked something before and after DEF injection and compared the values. Anybody know?





Tomko said:


> As I recall there is no DEF quality sensor per se. There are sensors that measure the outcome of DEF treatment and in that way the efficacy of the DEF itself is assessed.
> 
> Perhaps this is changed with the new part number. But doing so would imply a programming change. And no where on my work order does it mention any software updates or programming.


The elements of the reservoir are the heater and level sensor. The quality is determined by comparing the readings of the NOX1 and NOX2 sensors to see if it correlates with the commanded output from the DEF injector. If NOX 2 is not adequately reduced from the reading at NOX1, then the quality message will display. I'm sure there are intervals, EGT readings, and ambient temp criteria built in that conditions must be in place to set the message as well, but not sure what they are. Whenever I have checked the NOX sensor levels with my scanner, I have always seen a NOX2 reading of "0", so I assume that any presence of NOX gasses at NOX2 will trigger a quality message, provided all other conditions are within spec.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

So it came back this morning. 

Same situation as last time. First start up on a cool morning. 20 minutes later poor exhaust Fluid caution in the DIC. No MIL. 

Took it to the dealer. Can't get to it until Monday. They gave a Fiat 500L for a loaner. A real POS.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Tomko said:


> So it came back this morning.
> 
> Same situation as last time. First start up on a cool morning. 20 minutes later poor exhaust Fluid caution in the DIC. No MIL.
> 
> Took it to the dealer. Can't get to it until Monday. They gave a Fiat 500L for a loaner. A real POS.


I don't think I would accept that as a loaner, my life is too precious to drive that toy car


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I don't think I would accept that as a loaner, my life is too precious to drive that toy car


I concur. But it was my wife who was handling things as I was preoccupied with another commitment across town. 

They'd promised her an equinox but enterprise drove up in the Fiat. She called enterprise after getting back home and they told her the regional manager would call her on Monday. I'm guessing that she'll hit the powerball before she gets a call back from anyone in authority from enterprise.

First world problems.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Not to derail the thread, but I've had pretty good luck with Enterprise. They should bring you out a replacement.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

There is a service bulletin for an issue like this. Have you had any issues with your cruse control? Has your ECM ever been reprogrammed? The jist is that the DEF Fluid Quality Poor message can be caused by a "software anomaly". The other symptoms are the cruise control disengaging at low speeds or when traveling down hill. The solution is reprogramming the ECM with the newest program. Since your car has already had parts thrown at it, this might be the cause. I also do not know why they replaced anything involving the DEF tank, because as mentioned, the redundant isn't actually tested in itself, just the output. So one of the sensors would be the issue if it was a part, not anything in the tank. Matter of fact, I just reviewed the symptom tree, and the tank or reservoir isn't on it at all.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

CruzeDan said:


> There is a service bulletin for an issue like this. Have you had any issues with your cruse control? Has your ECM ever been reprogrammed? The jist is that the DEF Fluid Quality Poor message can be caused by a "software anomaly". The other symptoms are the cruise control disengaging at low speeds or when traveling down hill. The solution is reprogramming the ECM with the newest program. Since your car has already had parts thrown at it, this might be the cause. I also do not know why they replaced anything involving the DEF tank, because as mentioned, the redundant isn't actually tested in itself, just the output. So one of the sensors would be the issue if it was a part, not anything in the tank. Matter of fact, I just reviewed the symptom tree, and the tank or reservoir isn't on it at all.


Never had a reprogram on ECM to my knowledge. 

No cruise control problems. It works as it has always.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

The doc said "and/or" for the cruse control issues. So they don't have to happen as well.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

So I got a call from my service advisor. He explained that their next step is to remove the existing DEF and refill with new DEF. (Which is not covered by GMPP as it is a consumable.)


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Tomko said:


> They'd promised her an equinox but enterprise drove up in the Fiat.


Either someone wasn't paying attention, or they were out of cars. From what I understand, they're not supposed to lend you a non-GM vehicle. I forget what they loaned me, but it was something like a full-sized blazer. It sounds like the counter help substituted another car of the same "class" rather than keep you in the GM family.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Tomko said:


> So I got a call from my service advisor. He explained that their next step is to remove the existing DEF and refill with new DEF. (Which is not covered by GMPP as it is a consumable.)


It should be covered, as it's part of the troubleshooting process. ugh.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

So my dealership emptied my DEF tank and refilled it with 5 gallons of fresh DEF. 

This time it was customer pay: 0.8 hours labor, plus DEF plus two days car rental.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Tomko said:


> So my dealership emptied my DEF tank and refilled it with 10 gallons of fresh DEF.
> 
> This time it was customer pay: 0.8 hours labor, plus DEF plus two days car rental.


10 gallons? If they charged you for that, something's fishy, since it only holds 4.9.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

Since we add new DEF to old.. will there always be old DEF in the system? Should periodic draining be standard practice to ensure DEF quality?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

mkohan said:


> Since we add new DEF to old.. will there always be old DEF in the system? Should periodic draining be standard practice to ensure DEF quality?


Interesting question. A quick Google says "at 86°F, DEF has a shelf life of a year." link. From lurking here, I think it take some of you longer than that to run though a tank of the stuff. This link give a table of temperatures and shelf life. It seems if you live in AZ, the shelf life might be only 2 months.

So, depending on your situation, removing as much DEF as you can and replacing it with new DEF on a regular basis might not be a bad idea.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

revjpeterson said:


> 10 gallons? If they charged you for that, something's fishy, since it only holds 4.9.


You're right. I'm out to lunch. It was two 2.5 gallon jugs on my invoice = 5 gallons. I also corrected my original post.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Tomko said:


> But I don't get why TAC instructed a forced regen. I didn't think that the DPF and DEF injector were related.


I read elsewhere today that the forced regen creates the highest exhaust temperatures, and that in the situation that my car presented, it burns crud off of the various sensors downstream in the exhaust system. Therefore eliminating the possibility of fouled sensors triggering the poor quality exhaust Fluid caution.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

mkohan said:


> Since we add new DEF to old.. will there always be old DEF in the system? Should periodic draining be standard practice to ensure DEF quality?


I've never drained and refilled mine and haven't had any issues in over 3 years.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

diesel said:


> I've never drained and refilled mine and haven't had any issues in over 3 years.


Yes, but how often do you have to add DEF? You put more miles on faster than the average driver.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> Yes, but how often do you have to add DEF? You put more miles on faster than the average driver.


Seems like about every 3 months or so I put in 2.5 gallons.


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## steveg241 (Jul 18, 2013)

I may be experiencing this as well. The dealer is working with the GM Tech Center to figure out if this is a sensor issue or a software issue. I'll update when I have more information and hope everyone else with this issue gets is resolved easily.


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## steveg241 (Jul 18, 2013)

Dealer got back to me. They replaced a NOX sensor and what sounded like an injector for the DEF. I have to read the work order when I pick it up. I was told everything was done under the emissions warranty as the B2B warranty is expired and I was charged 1 hour of work so they could drain and replace the DEF in the tank. They included a DEF refill, which is nice but still only worth about $14 worth of DEF.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I was getting an exhaust manifold on my 02 f150 replaced at a very small shop, this farmer walks in and is going on about a Chevrolet diesel car, come to find out he has a 14 CTD and about 48k miles and the heater in def tank went out, dealer is giving run around, he feels like I do its part of the emission system and should be covered under warranty, what is up with gm not covering a emission component on a new system to them?


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I was getting an exhaust manifold on my 02 f150 replaced at a very small shop, this farmer walks in and is going on about a Chevrolet diesel car, come to find out he has a 14 CTD and about 48k miles and the heater in def tank went out, dealer is giving run around, he feels like I do its part of the emission system and should be covered under warranty, what is up with gm not covering a emission component on a new system to them?





steveg241 said:


> Dealer got back to me. They replaced a NOX sensor and what sounded like an injector for the DEF. I have to read the work order when I pick it up. I was told everything was done under the emissions warranty as the B2B warranty is expired and I was charged 1 hour of work so they could drain and replace the DEF in the tank. They included a DEF refill, which is nice but still only worth about $14 worth of DEF.


If you read the actual warranty document (posted somewhere in a past thread), about the only thing covered on the 2014-15 Diesels under "emissions select component" warranty that extends beyond the 36k B2B is the ECM and "catalytic converter" (guessing that must refer to the "Diesel Oxidation Catalyst" at the top of the DPF since we don't properly have a catalytic converter on the Diesel)--and that only because it's federally mandated that they do so. It looks like as of 2016, GM has updated their emission warranties brand-wide to include many of the Diesel sensors and components that we are experiencing problems with, but of course, it's not retroactive to 2014. My guess is any of the dealers that are covering the DEF reservoir, NOX sensors, etc. for customers have made a mistake in their warranty department, and are going to see their claim get denied by GM when they actually send it in for reimbursement, and they'll have to eat the cost of that repair.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

revjpeterson said:


> If you read the actual warranty document (posted somewhere in a past thread), about the only thing covered on the 2014-15 Diesels under "emissions select component" warranty that extends beyond the 36k B2B is the ECM and "catalytic converter" (guessing that must refer to the "Diesel Oxidation Catalyst" at the top of the DPF since we don't properly have a catalytic converter on the Diesel)--and that only because it's federally mandated that they do so. It looks like as of 2016, GM has updated their emission warranties brand-wide to include many of the Diesel sensors and components that we are experiencing problems with, but of course, it's not retroactive to 2014. My guess is any of the dealers that are covering the DEF reservoir, NOX sensors, etc. for customers have made a mistake in their warranty department, and are going to see their claim get denied by GM when they actually send it in for reimbursement, and they'll have to eat the cost of that repair.


At least there was an improvement in coverage moving forward. That's a good thing.


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## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

I have had 'Poor quality' warning twice now. Once during a very hot day in the summer. I added about 3 liters of new DEF and the warning went off in about 50km. After that it was fine until this weekend, I did the same thing, added about 2.5 liters (filled the tank to the top) the warning went away in 50km. I have used 'Kleen-flo TKO for diesel when I noticed the Regen getting too close together (200-300km). (full bottle of TKO & fill the tank) back to normal 800-900km between Regen. I use the cruise control every day, [email protected] to work, no problems.


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

So i have read through the top threads on poor quality messages, and do we know what the deal is(other then swap random parts) ? I just bought the 2014 CTD on 17th and driving it home I got the message, I was 3 hrs from home so I googled a bit and they said to drive it hard... I was already goin 80 when it came on :/. Anyways its at the dealership since the 18th and they said there replacing sensors, and replaced def. the car has 50k miles.. The service adv said this was covered and gave me a 2017 silverado to drive till its fixed. But they dont have a clue as to why the message will not clear... As long as they are paying for it I dont care.. but god this 1500 drinks gas!


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> So i have read through the top threads on poor quality messages, and do we know what the deal is(other then swap random parts) ? I just bought the 2014 CTD on 17th and driving it home I got the message, I was 3 hrs from home so I googled a bit and they said to drive it hard... I was already goin 80 when it came on :/. Anyways its at the dealership since the 18th and they said there replacing sensors, and replaced def. the car has 50k miles.. The service adv said this was covered and gave me a 2017 silverado to drive till its fixed. But they dont have a clue as to why the message will not clear... As long as they are paying for it I dont care.. but god this 1500 drinks gas!


If you've never had the DEF heater replaced, that's most likely your problem. There is extended warranty 10/120K on this item and it does cause that message. it also take a while after replacement for the message to clear. The dealership had to drive my car for a couple days to have the message clear.

Another possibility is if you've had the emissions recall done. i had this message pop up once after the emissions recall, and driving it hard (WOT in manual mode for a few miles) helped the message to eventually clear itself after 30 miles. Permanent solution is to have the recall removed. GM issues a new bulletin to suspend/reverse the recall.

Keep us posted! Some dealerships really have a hard time with this car due to lack of skill.


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

Im sure ill get it back one of these days and post what all they did... but seems like most dealerships are just throwing parts at it and hope it goes away. But when the issue is 100% fixed and the message just likes to hang around would really piss me off being the mechanic :/


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> Im sure ill get it back one of these days and post what all they did... but seems like most dealerships are just throwing parts at it and hope it goes away. But when the issue is 100% fixed and the message just likes to hang around would really piss me off being the mechanic :/


Yep. My dealership was a bit frustrated too, but they were in close communication with GM TAC (Technical Assistance Center) and TAC told them keep driving, it will clear. And it did.


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

well, from a customer standpoint... it seems like they have 1 communication with TAC, and they try one thing.. if that doesnt work, they try something the next day. Ive never had a car in service for 2 weeks.. I could understand if they were waiting on parts, but thats not the case. So far its on their dime... but when waranty is out I doubt ill keep the whole dpf and def system, its too much of a pita


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> well, from a customer standpoint... it seems like they have 1 communication with TAC, and they try one thing.. if that doesnt work, they try something the next day. Ive never had a car in service for 2 weeks.. I could understand if they were waiting on parts, but thats not the case. So far its on their dime... but when waranty is out I doubt ill keep the whole dpf and def system, its too much of a pita


it really doesn't seem like they are being very proactive.


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

I did get a call yesterday as I pulled into my sisters work (its 200miles away, and im not suppose to go over 100 miles out) they said they still dont have a clue... and they are working with corporate. its been 2 weeks :/ he said it was something with the fuel system.. but I know thats kinda BS.. but you never know.. O well im putting this brand new 1500 to work, picked up a queen sized bed from my sisters it fit good in the back. May go pick up a shed today. This truck had 13 miles on it, and I went over 1000 yesterday.. Love my $14,000 2017 silverado LOL


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> I did get a call yesterday as I pulled into my sisters work (its 200miles away, and im not suppose to go over 100 miles out) they said they still dont have a clue... and they are working with corporate. its been 2 weeks :/ he said it was something with the fuel system.. but I know thats kinda BS.. but you never know.. O well im putting this brand new 1500 to work, picked up a queen sized bed from my sisters it fit good in the back. May go pick up a shed today. This truck had 13 miles on it, and I went over 1000 yesterday.. Love my $14,000 2017 silverado LOL


I'd be racking up the miles on the new loaner too! lol

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted!


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

well today she tells me they got ahold of GM support center or something, they said to drain and refill def.. it was full when I gave it to them, replace both sensors with the original ones, replace air filter?! reset the computer and then put the new ones back in... I asked her wasnt that the 1st thing you did.. she said yes but the computer was holding on to the old error or something. but they said that will fix it, and it will be $1200 or 1500... so I gave her my extended warranty info, so I should be out my ded of $100.. I should have told her this wasnt my first diesel :/ but still thanks for wasting 3 weeks of my time with a car I just pulled off the lot.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> well today she tells me they got ahold of GM support center or something, they said to drain and refill def.. it was full when I gave it to them, replace both sensors with the original ones, replace air filter?! reset the computer and then put the new ones back in... I asked her wasnt that the 1st thing you did.. she said yes but the computer was holding on to the old error or something. but they said that will fix it, and it will be $1200 or 1500... so I gave her my extended warranty info, so I should be out my ded of $100.. I should have told her this wasnt my first diesel :/ but still thanks for wasting 3 weeks of my time with a car I just pulled off the lot.


Wow. I'm even more not impressed with your dealership. I'm glad you have that warranty.


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

and I finally have a car, it was only 1486.81 after i made her remove the air filter, and all but one def can. took me 2 hours to check out, going back and forth over charges.... anyways its a dam book, but they have had it almost a month, here it goes

Found code p2490 issue with reductant system, caused by nox sensor 1 and 2
They test drove and nox 1 was 'erradic'. so they replaced sensor 1, ran regen and fluid quality test, and it failed.
Test drove again, and found sensor 2 to be bad, replaced sensor, ran fluid quality check, and failed.
Tested reductant inj, and it was fine
removed def, and refilled with new. ran fluid Q test and failed
contacted TAC tested API of fuel? and found it to be high, filled car with 'good' fuel, leveled oil, replaced air filter due to possible restriction causing DEF issue. mmmmhm ok
Ran smoke test to look for air leaks in induction system, and found none, ran air flow equivalency test and found no issues, ran fluid Q test and failed.
Contacted TAC: replaced new nox sensors with the old ones, reprogramed the ECM, ran fluid Q test, and failed... duh
replaced old noxs with new noxs, ran fluid Q test and passed, no other issues found at this time....
To me it looks like all they needed to do was hit the ECM right off the bat, and replace the 1st sensor at most both but who knows at this point.
3 weeks! labor $527, parts $900
Tonight will be the first night at home :/


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

izedaman said:


> and I finally have a car, it was only 1486.81 after i made her remove the air filter, and all but one def can. took me 2 hours to check out, going back and forth over charges.... anyways its a dam book, but they have had it almost a month, here it goes
> 
> Found code p2490 issue with reductant system, caused by nox sensor 1 and 2
> They test drove and nox 1 was 'erradic'. so they replaced sensor 1, ran regen and fluid quality test, and it failed.
> ...


Delete tune is about $1400 shipped to your door


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

I do see it in my future lol


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> and I finally have a car, it was only 1486.81 after i made her remove the air filter, and all but one def can. took me 2 hours to check out, going back and forth over charges.... anyways its a dam book, but they have had it almost a month, here it goes
> 
> Found code p2490 issue with reductant system, caused by nox sensor 1 and 2
> They test drove and nox 1 was 'erradic'. so they replaced sensor 1, ran regen and fluid quality test, and it failed.
> ...


Thanks for the update. I read that and the word "incompetent" kept running through my head. I am guessing through all this, they never replaced your DEF reservoir?


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

nope that would have been covered by them. its odd that when they thought chevy was paying for it they were afraid to do anything. when she told me it was not covered by them and that it would cost ME $1500, the car was done the next day.... things that make you go hmmmmmmm
and now that its stopped raining, I get to unscrew the airbox and check my air filter they say may have been causing some issues... why is it screwed down lol, is it gonna fly away? and is there anyway to clean the def system, it looks like they did not have the correct bottle to fill the thing up.. now it looks like that place superman was born. crustieness everywhere
anything else come to mind to check? I also had to replace dry rotted wiper blades, mine has some air scoop on the driver wiper blade... so I got inserts instead of the whole blade.. the auto store had to special order inserts, he said no one does inserts anymore. $10 for inserts or $40 for blades... its a no brainer,


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I found that the spoiler on the driver-side blade unbolts. I have mine sitting on my table after I took it off the factory blade that was coming apart. I spent the extra money and put Icons on it, well worth it. Now I have a nearly-new Delco Advantage wiper sitting inside that I just put on a few months ago. Oh well.


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

those Napa inserts work very well and can beat $10 for new rubber  I need to add my fuelly sigs


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> nope that would have been covered by them. its odd that when they thought chevy was paying for it they were afraid to do anything. when she told me it was not covered by them and that it would cost ME $1500, the car was done the next day.... things that make you go hmmmmmmm
> and now that its stopped raining, I get to unscrew the airbox and check my air filter they say may have been causing some issues... why is it screwed down lol, is it gonna fly away? and is there anyway to clean the def system, it looks like they did not have the correct bottle to fill the thing up.. now it looks like that place superman was born. crustieness everywhere
> anything else come to mind to check? I also had to replace dry rotted wiper blades, mine has some air scoop on the driver wiper blade... so I got inserts instead of the whole blade.. the auto store had to special order inserts, he said no one does inserts anymore. $10 for inserts or $40 for blades... its a no brainer,


To clean the crystals, I just use a damp paper towel. As for the rest of it, of course they will do stuff if you're paying because they know they will get paid. For warranty stuff, they have to document to GM and follow procedures, and MAYBE GM might pay them. Warranty work also pays less than customer pay. Someone that works at a dealership could elaborate, I'm sure. 

And I'll bet you a dollar you get the DEF warning again, because after all that, the most likely problem probably still exists. Ask them if you have the same problem pop back up, if they will eat the cost of the incorrect diagnosis and repair. (I really hope I am wrong and your car is fixed and fine.)


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

I would not take that bet lol.. I drive them like they like to be driven so if its truly gone , those parts will be ok... but im sure something else will pop up. Do we have a map guy around to do map updates? I havnt searched yet. VW we had the hook up lol


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