# Another Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor thread -or- I'm so fed up with this emissions crap



## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

If your car is still within the time/mileage then they will continue to replace it if it's bad.

As for the DEF quality - can you just siphon out all of the old fluid and replace it? I don't know what brand you use but I've heard of people having issues with fluid being expired. I use the Wal-Mart brand because they cycle through it fast. I've read before about guys buying BlueDef, thinking they were treating their vehicle right, only to get codes because it sat on the shelf and expired because it cost a lot more.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> If your car is still within the time/mileage then they will continue to replace it if it's bad.
> 
> As for the DEF quality - can you just siphon out all of the old fluid and replace it? I don't know what brand you use but I've heard of people having issues with fluid being expired. I use the Wal-Mart brand because they cycle through it fast. I've read before about guys buying BlueDef, thinking they were treating their vehicle right, only to get codes because it sat on the shelf and expired because it cost a lot more.


With how long interval are I go to the big rig stops with weight scales. They have DEF pumps that always have fresh stock in tank, way easier to fill the tank, and sold to the exact amount you need vs a box of left over.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Did you recently top off the DEF?

I had that CEL come up on my gen 2 right after topping off the DEF. Tank wasn't low enough to ask for a fill, I just had some so filled it. Cleared the CEL and the countdown to speed reduction went away a couple miles later. Never came back.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I ❤ THE EPA.  🤮


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

JLL said:


> I ❤ THE EPA.  🤮


I wouldn’t mind them if they held gas cars to the same standards as diesel cars. If a new Camaro has a bad cat it doesn’t limit speed.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

pandrad61 said:


> I wouldn’t mind them if they held gas cars to the same standards as diesel cars. If a new Camaro has a bad cat it doesn’t limit speed.


Exactly! Drive forever with that CEL on in a gasser.

Even a weeks time instead of a distance to speed reduction would be much better.


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

TDCruze said:


> Did you recently top off the DEF?


I did put in 2.5 gallons maybe three weeks ago. If the problem was that bad I would think the error message would have showed up sooner. I think I was at about 20% when I topped off. I specifically looked for any expiration dates on the DEF from AutoZoo but don't recall seeing one. Guess it's time to pull out the topsider and then go for a joyride.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Sygma6 said:


> I did put in 2.5 gallons maybe three weeks ago. If the problem was that bad I would think the error message would have showed up sooner. I think I was at about 20% when I topped off. I specifically looked for any expiration dates on the DEF from AutoZoo but don't recall seeing one. Guess it's time to pull out the topsider and then go for a joyride.


Dumb question but, did you already try clearing the code and driving?


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

TDCruze said:


> Dumb question but, did you already try clearing the code and driving?


The P11D7 is still pending so no check engine light yet. But within 30 seconds of the odometer rolling over to 100K I saw a brief flash about doing my timing belt. Then back to the countdown of doom.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

TDCruze said:


> Exactly! Drive forever with that CEL on in a gasser.
> 
> Even a weeks time instead of a distance to speed reduction would be much better.


If I can get past the Reduced Engine Power *and I can if* I turn the key off and on and wait about 5 minutes and restart, it'll start with NO reduced engine power with the CEL ON. I also use fresh DEF, but when I fill it, I get a new check engine light and then it goes away in an hour or two. As much as it drives me nuts, the car is a joy to drive and its high-speed cruising is incomparable.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

TDCruze said:


> Exactly! *Drive forever with that CEL on in a gasser.*
> 
> Even a weeks time instead of a distance to speed reduction would be much better.


You can drive forever with a CEL in a Cruze CTD as long as you don't get Reduced Engine power.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

pandrad61 said:


> I wouldn’t mind them if they held gas cars to the same standards as diesel cars. If a new Camaro has a bad cat it doesn’t limit speed.


Well, they are going to start putting gasoline particulate filters on gas vehicles as well, if it makes you feel any better.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

DslGate said:


> You can drive forever with a CEL in a Cruze CTD as long as you don't get Reduced Engine power.


Yep - certain ones only, obviously.

I thought the NOx2 sensor couldn't cause an emissions countdown, but the second time it failed, I do believe it did - it was reading ten times higher than the NOx1. If I recall, it would cause a countdown...then go away...then come back...then go away.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

DslGate said:


> You can drive forever with a CEL in a Cruze CTD as long as you don't get Reduced Engine power.


Most diesel emissions related CELs cause a speed reduction countdown.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

DslGate said:


> You can drive forever with a CEL in a Cruze CTD as long as you don't get Reduced Engine power.


So you can’t then since reduced power will trigger a CEL.


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

As a conclusion I pulled out the topsider and drained everything I could get out of the DEF tank. Popped in some new DEF from Wally World, no information about expiration date on the packaging by the way, and took a lesson from the German language for creative compound word swearing.

Used the Torque app and the BiScan plugin to run a regen. Seeing those EGT #2 numbers over 1,100°F was an interesting experience. Also of note was that the NOx readings for sensor 1 and 2 were vastly different between my Foxwell NT301 and the Torque app. Idle RPM's from the code scanner would show low 80's and single digits for NOx 1 and 2 while the Torque app would show high 200's and high 100's for the same sensors. I don't know if they are reporting the same way but I'm not sure which one is showing correct NOx values in PPM.

The countdown of doom was still showing after the DEF drain and refill and after the regen. I had a side gig to do so I chanced it and hopped on the highway with 40 miles until reduced speeds. 15 minutes later the stupid error message went away.

I still replaced the NOx 2 sensor as I put in for a warranty replacement at the start of this mess. I also now have a nice Bluetooth OBD2 reader and app on my phone. Yanking the battery while futzing with emissions crap also got rid of the timing belt notification.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I know a lot of guys here like running manual regens, but I would be careful doing that very often. I've had my car for almost 5 years and not had to do it once. Driving the car on the freeway is the best way to keep it clean. When I was shut down from covid I still took it out once a week for a 30-40 minute ride.

The Wal Mart fluid I do not think has an expiration in readable format, it's probably some other coded numbers. Blue Def at one point use to have the expiration on it, but they may have removed it, or made it coded, just so people don't buy the newest first - like they do milk.

But anyways, glad the new fluid worked out for you.


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

BDCCruze said:


> I know a lot of guys here like running manual regens, but I would be careful doing that very often. I've had my car for almost 5 years and not had to do it once. Driving the car on the freeway is the best way to keep it clean. When I was shut down from covid I still took it out once a week for a 30-40 minute ride.


I would not have done one except for the countdown of doom really had me worried. My logic was to make sure any deposits got burned off any sensors, especially NOx #2. Hopefully this will be the only time I have to do one.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

God Bless the EPA......


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

JLL said:


> God Bless the EPA......


I'm all for being responsible with the environment and air we breathe but the EPA junk on this car reduces efficiency and will make the car last less time. Seems self defeating to me as all the costs and other environmental impacts of making another car to replace it exceeds keeping my current one on the road. I might just have to find another 80's diesel Mercedes. I had one for 7 years as a daily driver and never had the engine or transmission problems I have had with a newer car.


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