# Mobil 1 Extended Protection Motor Oil.



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Large print says guaranteed protection up to 15,000 miles.

Small print says, to maintain your vehicle warranty, go by their recommendations.

What is does not say, is if your engine does fry up, how to claim this guarantee.

But for a little more than a buck extra, thought I would try it. Maybe instead of changing my oil at 20% life remaining, may go down to 10% so I come a bit ahead with that over a buck I spent. 

Does have that green dexos label on it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

In my Tiered oils list, I recommended against this:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-powertrain/41385-tiered-oils-list-understanding-synthetics.html

The reason is that it proved to have very low film strength. This is typical of Group 3 "synthetic" oils that have heavy levels of additives and detergents for extended drain intervals. The problem is that due to the need for pour point depressants and viscosity modifiers, the percentage of the actual lubricating hydrocarbons in the oil begins to fall rapidly. With your typical Group 3 synthetic, you have very roughly 75% oil and 25% additives. When you add more TBN additives for extended drains, what you end up with is an even lower percentage of oil, and the total package film strength drops and begins to shear easily. 

While that alone wouldn't really concern me too greatly, the oil also has poor oxidization properties which results in waxy (sludge) deposits. 

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf

Note that the test was performed by an independent lab, not by AMSOIL.

You won't really hurt your engine by using it once, but for the next time you get an oil change done, there are better options out there.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Similar to DEATH COOL HaH and it comes with a green Dot .


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

X, what were your thoughts on Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 again?


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

I had very good success with mobile one extended performance, I went 15000 miles between oil changes. I had an LS cobalt that I reved out to 8k with proper valvetrain and took the vehicle from 121 whp to 386whp(with a ton of other supporting mods) for 180000 hard miles and the bottom end help up just fine , the second time I changed my broken getrag the oil gap spacing and main and rod bearings were all in spec. That doesnt mean its the best but it worked great in my cobalt. Its good oil to me but Im sure theres always something better.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

If you can believe all that propaganda on the rear of the bottle, highly recommended by, GM, Ford, Honda, and over 50% of NASCAR drivers.

Compared to Mobile 1, has a much greater temperature breakdown point. Besides 15,000 miles of guaranteed protection.

Still have the receipt, can take it back and exchange for standard Mobile 1 and get about a buck-fifty back.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

Every single time one of you asks this type of question, you are going to get a snake oil pitch from an AMS Oil small time marketer. You want film strength? Add an extreme pressure material such as found in gear oils. Not good for engine lubrication needs. Here is a snake oil pitch from a better informed source. Take your pick. Oil Film Strength of Mobil 1 Compared with Royal Purple


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> Every single time one of you asks this type of question, you are going to get a snake oil pitch from an AMS Oil small time marketer. You want film strength? Add an extreme pressure material such as found in gear oils. Not good for engine lubrication needs. Here is a snake oil pitch from a better informed source. Take your pick. Oil Film Strength of Mobil 1 Compared with Royal Purple


On this forum, you back up your statements or you keep quiet. I made no sales pitch for an AMSOIL product and my tiered oils list contains plenty of alternate recommendations. I have the numbers to back up my statements. I know for a fact that you don't.

Does your snake oil pitch admit that the formulation changed from a PAO base stock to a cheaper and weaker hydro cracked base stock in the mid to late 2000s? Do you even know the difference? Do you even know what Molybdenum and Boron is or why Magnesium Sulfonate (what Mobil 1 uses) is inferior to Calcium Sulfonate and Calcium Phenate? Do you even know what those do?

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

plasticplant said:


> X, what were your thoughts on Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 again?


Excellent oil for diesels. If it wasn't for the low TBN mandated for the mid/low SAPS in diesel engines with modern diesel particulate filters, I'd be recommending it at the top of my list for gasoline engine oils.



hificruzer226 said:


> I had very good success with mobile one extended performance, I went 15000 miles between oil changes. I had an LS cobalt that I reved out to 8k with proper valvetrain and took the vehicle from 121 whp to 386whp(with a ton of other supporting mods) for 180000 hard miles and the bottom end help up just fine , the second time I changed my broken getrag the oil gap spacing and main and rod bearings were all in spec. That doesnt mean its the best but it worked great in my cobalt. Its good oil to me but Im sure theres always something better.


Mobil 1 EP has been tested more than once to be an inferior quality oil to the standard Mobil 1.



NickD said:


> If you can believe all that propaganda on the rear of the bottle, highly recommended by, GM, Ford, Honda, and over 50% of NASCAR drivers.
> 
> Compared to Mobile 1, has a much greater temperature breakdown point. Besides 15,000 miles of guaranteed protection.
> 
> Still have the receipt, can take it back and exchange for standard Mobile 1 and get about a buck-fifty back.


It's not propaganda if I have the numbers to back it up. The big question is whether or not you have the time to learn what the numbers mean. 

I'd recommend taking it back in exchange for the standard Mobil 1.

If this was 7 years ago, I'd be recommending Mobil if you insisted on a Mobil 1 product, but their formula changed and not for the better.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> On this forum, you back up your statements or you keep quiet. I made no sales pitch for an AMSOIL product and my tiered oils list contains plenty of alternate recommendations. I have the numbers to back up my statements. I know for a fact that you don't.


I'll back XR on this. I'm getting tired of people spouting off about why their oil is better *without* providing actual data to back it up.

He backs up all of his claims with facts from Amsoil and other oil manufactuers. It does not matter if the information helps his cause in selling another couple of cases of oil or not. BTW, I do not run any Amsoil products in my vehicles. But I have made changes to the list of fluids I will run from now on based on information he has provided on this forum.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackbowtie said:


> I'll back XR on this. I'm getting tired of people spouting off about why their oil is better *without* providing actual data to back it up.
> 
> He backs up all of his claims with facts from Amsoil and other oil manufactuers. It does not matter if the information helps his cause in selling another couple of cases of oil or not. BTW, I do not run any Amsoil products in my vehicles. But I have made changes to the list of fluids I will run from now on based on information he has provided on this forum.


Thanks!

My #1 goal has and will always be to help inform people so they make more educated purchasing decisions and keep their cars running better. Selling oil comes second to that. They often coincide since AMSOIL's oils consistently test very well, but I'm not going to run around saying all oil is horrible and only AMSOIL will protect your engine. There are a few select oils I recommend that people avoid, and this is one of them. I offer people options and let them make their own decisions based on the facts.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

See I used the wrong heading on my post, not Extended Protection, but Extended Performance, shame on me.

Is a GM approved oil under their licensing list at dexos1 Brands | GM


Mobil 1 0W-20ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos10W-20GlobalMobil 1 0W-30ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos10W-30GlobalMobil 1 5W-20ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos15W-20GlobalMobil 1 5W-30ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos15W-30GlobalMobil 1 Extended Peformance 5W-20ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos15W-20Global*Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30
**ExxonMobil Oil Corporation**dexos1**5W-30**Global*Mobil 1 x 1 5W-30ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos15W-30GlobalMobil Super 3000 Formula D1ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos15W-30GlobalMobil Super Synthetic 5W-30ExxonMobil Oil Corporationdexos15W-30Global


With concerns about meeting the Cruze warranty requirements. Only had one year of chemistry in college that I have forgotten the day after. So would put myself in the idiot class.

Seen some sites that want 30 bucks more for Extended Performance over just Mobil 1. That got me paranoid from buying this oil from Walmart for only a buck-fifty more. But did not see anything on that 5 quart Mobil 1 Extended Performance bottle that said anything about being made especially for Walmart or for their distributorship. So do assume, it is genuine Mobil.

But you know what they say about ass-u-me.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> See I used the wrong heading on my post, not Extended Protection, but Extended Performance, shame on me.
> 
> Is a GM approved oil under their licensing list at dexos1 Brands | GM
> 
> ...


I believe we were all referring to the same oil. I don't think Mobil 1 has an EP oil that goes by two names. 

The DEXOS1 certification is pretty relaxed as far as synthetic oils and blends go. Maximum NOACK volatility can be no higher than 13%, does not require any anti-wear or extreme pressure additives, and a TBN of over 6.5 are among the tested parameters. It won't be very difficult to meet the specification.


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

While were on the topic of Mobil oils, anyone try the "advanced fuel economy oil"? I have yet to see any data this but it is nice to see a Mobile option in 0w30 variant. 

Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 qt.: Automotive : Walmart.com


I did find that it is dexos1 approved (for some I know that's important)
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> , anyone try the "advanced fuel economy oil"?


 - Yes but not in my Cruze - have used it in my GTO. Have only used Mobil 1, Mobil 1 AFE and EP variants in my GTO since the first oil change at 500 miles. It is a stock LS1 so probably very low stress on the oil compared to our Cruze turbos.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

giantsnation said:


> While were on the topic of Mobil oils, anyone try the "advanced fuel economy oil"? I have yet to see any data this but it is nice to see a Mobile option in 0w30 variant.
> 
> Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 qt.: Automotive : Walmart.com
> 
> ...


I can pretty much guarantee you that they used additional VI additives and pour point depressants to get that 0W rating. As a result, the NOACK volatility will have shot up around 2%. The oil will shear more easily and will boil off more easily as well. Unless you live in a climate that regularly sees temperatures below -20 degrees F, that oil will do more harm than good.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

giantsnation said:


> While were on the topic of Mobil oils, anyone try the "advanced fuel economy oil"? I have yet to see any data this but it is nice to see a Mobile option in 0w30 variant.
> 
> Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 qt.: Automotive : Walmart.com
> 
> ...


I used their AFE 0W-20 in our other car for 1 oil change. The consensus seems to be, at least for the 0W-20, that there are better oils out there, including Toyota's own.


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## Jonnyukon (Aug 20, 2013)

I use Mobil 1 extended in my cruze and from my own real world driving and goin by what the oil life is on the car I'm getting 10,000 miles on an oil change by the time I'm down to 20% .... 
And I'll keep doing the same thing... 
Shoot before Mobil even had the extended life oil I was already using Mobil 1 5-30 in my 2000 cavalier with a 2.2 in it and changed the oil roughly every 5-6000 miles and u know what....
The 2.2 is still alive with 340,000 miles and still being daily driven


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Jonnyukon said:


> I use Mobil 1 extended in my cruze and from my own real world driving and goin by what the oil life is on the car I'm getting 10,000 miles on an oil change by the time I'm down to 20% ....
> And I'll keep doing the same thing...
> Shoot before Mobil even had the extended life oil I was already using Mobil 1 5-30 in my 2000 cavalier with a 2.2 in it and changed the oil roughly every 5-6000 miles and u know what....
> The 2.2 is still alive with 340,000 miles and still being daily driven
> ...



I have already stated that Mobil 1 changed their formulation from a PAO base stock to a hydrocracked base stock. If you have no clue what that means, you aren't qualified to even begin discussing the merits of oils. Since all you have is anecdotal evidence, let's keep the jabs out of the thread. I haven't posted any links, made any recommendations, or tried to sell anyone any product in this thread. Your implication that I have is uncalled for. 

I have proof in testing numbers from the Petroleum Quality Institute of America. Mileage means nothing. You can go 340,000 miles on dino oil, so long as you change it every 3k miles. 

March 2013 - Test Results for AP


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## jalaner (Dec 28, 2013)

I've tried using Mobil 1 on three different cars and all three started seeping around various engine seals after the switch. I am going to avoid synthetics in my Pontiac Vibe and Cruze Diesel since I have never needed to replace a car because of engine wear or failure.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jalaner said:


> I've tried using Mobil 1 on three different cars and all three started seeping around various engine seals after the switch. I am going to avoid synthetics in my Pontiac Vibe and Cruze Diesel since I have never needed to replace a car because of engine wear or failure.


I wouldn't recommend that. The GM oil is at minimum a synthetic blend. In addition, everyone else is doing just fine on synthetics in the Cruze Diesel and the gas versions. You can't go to a non-synthetic without willfully voiding your warranty by using an oil that is below the spec of DEXOS1 or DEXOS2.


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## jalaner (Dec 28, 2013)

I didn't know the Diesel oil was synthetic blend. Couldn't find it in the owners manual. I've had problems with 100% synthetic. I will of course continue to use the required GM oil. My BMW 740i requires 100% synthetic and is supposed to be designed for it. It also seeps oil but much less than the three cars designed for conventional oil. When I switched my 1998 Cadillac Concours from conventional to Mobil 1 it not only began to seep oil but also started to display oil pressure warnings at idle. The dealer diagnosed it as an internal engine seal leak and recommended changing back to a high viscosity conventional oil. This remedied the warning but the external seals continued to seep after that.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jalaner said:


> I didn't know the Diesel oil was synthetic blend. Couldn't find it in the owners manual. I've had problems with 100% synthetic. I will of course continue to use the required GM oil. My BMW 740i requires 100% synthetic and is supposed to be designed for it. It also seeps oil but much less than the three cars designed for conventional oil. When I switched my 1998 Cadillac Concours from conventional to Mobil 1 it not only began to seep oil but also started to display oil pressure warnings at idle. The dealer diagnosed it as an internal engine seal leak and recommended changing back to a high viscosity conventional oil. This remedied the warning but the external seals continued to seep after that.


This is not a sales pitch, but AMSOIL makes oils specifically for engines like that. They are really far down the engine oils list and most people never see them or even know they exist. They are the 10W-40 and 20W-50 "Synthetic Premium Protection" motor oils. They have over 1.5x the levels of ZDDP (Zinc) for anti-wear protection as the API certification is limited to. The higher viscosity keeps older, worn-in engines from leaking and burning oil. These oils exist because the issue you described does occur. 

AMSOIL SAE 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil
AMSOIL SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil

Synthetics oils have a far higher lubricity than conventional and synthetic blend oils. They have all of the large contaminants removed, and have a more uniform molecular structure. On top of that, they typically have stronger detergent packages to prevent sludging from contaminant deposits, boil-off, and oxidization. As a result, switching to a synthetic oil will sometimes cause the engines to seep some oil because the oil will "pick up" or absorb and suspend the contaminants left behind by old oils. This is one reason why AMSOIL states that the first change to AMSOIL synthetics is always considered "severe service." This is usually limited to old engines that have been using dino oils for a long time. 

That being said, I bought a 91 pickup truck back in September and recently put some AMSOIL synthetic in it. I've driven it 1000 miles and there hasn't been any oil seepage yet. The truck has 324k miles on it. My wife's 2000 Regal GSE was bought with 151k miles and I've used synthetics in it since then, also with no seepage. 

Your BMW requires synthetic oil because of the high operating pressures. Those are high compression, high strung motors that make a lot of power for their displacement. They generally require a high quality oil. In addition, synthetic oil is all they use out in Europe where those engines are designed, which is why just about every new car you buy out there will recommend a 10-20k mile oil change interval. They have far higher oil quality than we do. 

Your best bet really is to use a good synthetic (there are many to choose from in my tiered oils list) from day one so you don't have those gaps to seep through from the start. Anyone who has run Mobil 1's old formulation for more than a few hundred thousand miles will attest to how clean that engine is when the top end is removed. The engines run cleaner and run better if you stick to synthetics from day one. 

Oh, and here it is written on the DEXOS2 bottle:


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Until we have empirical proof that certain oils are capable of extended drains past 7500-8500 miles, I'll stand by my recommendation of changing the oil every 7500 miles or 25% on the OLM on the 1.4T. We know the 1.4T is hard on oil, and that even a off-the-shelf dexos1 synthetic is throwing in the towel right around 7500 miles. 

10,000 miles might be doable with a specific oil in specific driving conditions. Definitely get oil analysis done to make sure the oil is okay to run past 10k miles. That being said, if there really was a 15k mile oil for these engines that cost about $40-50 per change, I'd run it just to save myself the hassle of changing oil every 3-4 months.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jalaner said:


> I didn't know the Diesel oil was synthetic blend. Couldn't find it in the owners manual. I've had problems with 100% synthetic. I will of course continue to use the required GM oil. My BMW 740i requires 100% synthetic and is supposed to be designed for it. It also seeps oil but much less than the three cars designed for conventional oil. When I switched my 1998 Cadillac Concours from conventional to Mobil 1 it not only began to seep oil but also started to display oil pressure warnings at idle. The dealer diagnosed it as an internal engine seal leak and recommended changing back to a high viscosity conventional oil. This remedied the warning but the external seals continued to seep after that.


The 1.4T EcoTec engine in the Cruze LT, ECO, and LTZ is very tight with regards to seals and other possible leak points and I suspect the 2.0T diesel engine is the same way. My 1990 Pontiac Transport ran "wax based" Penzoil for 240,000 miles. I got a major chuckle out of the shift to semi-synthetics in the late 90s followed almost immediately by "high mileage" semi-synthetics that added the wax build up back to the oil. Those engines simply weren't designed for "waxless" oils. Today's engines, however, are designed for oils that not only don't leave a waxy residue behind but will actually clean out any residue that has previously been left behind.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

I love it when a plan comes together .. now if the novice member will only do a little research and read these threads before spouting out that there isn;t an option ,and they are done with the Dealer .. all of the clues are here !


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, I started this thread when Mobile comes out with a motor oil with guaranteed 15,000 miles protection. Then tells you to maintain your vehicle warranty, must follow your vehicle's recommendation for oil changes.

One would think, at least me, Mobil's warranty would override the vehicle's recommendations on oil changes. But they certainly are NOT taking the liability for this issue. Big fat print on the front of the bottle, super small fine print on the back of it that contradicts their front bottle statement. 

Kind of like your dealer trying to sell you a several thousand dollar 100K mile additional warranty, but when you read the fine print, no different than the 100K power train warranty that you already paid for when you purchased the vehicle. 

Just more contradictions I wanted to point out, really had no intentions on starting a war on this subject.


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

sciphi said:


> Until we have empirical proof that certain oils are capable of extended drains past 7500-8500 miles, I'll stand by my recommendation of changing the oil every 7500 miles or 25% on the OLM on the 1.4T. We know the 1.4T is hard on oil, and that even a off-the-shelf dexos1 synthetic is throwing in the towel right around 7500 miles.
> 
> 10,000 miles might be doable with a specific oil in specific driving conditions. Definitely get oil analysis done to make sure the oil is okay to run past 10k miles. That being said, if there really was a 15k mile oil for these engines that cost about $40-50 per change, I'd run it just to save myself the hassle of changing oil every 3-4 months.


My last oil change had 7400 miles on it and the results were very good. Wear metals finally settling down from the new engine. Just over 16K total miles now and had 5W30 Amsoil SSO in it with a WIX filter.


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

NickD said:


> ....really had no intentions on starting a war on this subject.


You really didn't start anything. This issue pops up too often here. Some people are too stuck on a particular oil brand for whatever reason to see that there are other options out there and like to voice their opinion with lots of shouting and little facts. 

In regards to the Mobil EP you mentioned, I would be surprised if anyone has tried to collect damages from Mobil/Exxon for a failed engine. If they have, their success rate of collection has to be almost zero. This is all marketing. Makes people feel good about their purchase with a little "peace of mind".


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

NickD said:


> One would think, at least me, Mobil's warranty would override the vehicle's recommendations on oil changes. But they certainly are NOT taking the liability for this issue. Big fat print on the front of the bottle, super small fine print on the back of it that contradicts their front bottle statement.


Advertising - Always start with the fine print.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

No problem with exchanging EP for the standard Mobile 1, so back to this after my own reading on added detergents. And really no advantage of an extended oil change if I can't use it. Also noticed Mobile now has maximum fuel economy, but is 0W-20 oil, manual says use 5W-30 to meet the warranty requirements. 

Also see Amsoil came out with a new Signature series with up to 25,000 miles between changes. Really no objection to Amsoil, except not sold in stores here. But do see they offer the same discount to dealers as they do to individual members.

See more and more stores around here are going to the five quart bottle, but certainly taking long enough. Five bucks per quart in a five quart bottle. Closer to 7 bucks a quart in a quart bottle. I don't keep the bottles. And far easier for me to pour the old oil in a five quart bottle, then five single quart bottles. Plus I am close to being ten bucks richer.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> Also noticed Mobile now has maximum fuel economy, but is 0W-20 oil, manual says use 5W-30 to meet the warranty requirements.


That's generally for car manufacturers that have redesigned their engines to run on a -20 weight oil for fuel economy (Ford, Honda, Toyota). I would never use a 20 weight in an engine that calls for 30-weight, especially one that's turbocharged. 

Does it work for those manufacturers? Idk...it might gain them 0.5-1 MPG, but they're doing anything they can these days to eek MPG out of heavier and heavier cars...and still compete in a HP war between manufacturers.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Excellent oil for diesels. If it wasn't for the low TBN mandated for the mid/low SAPS in diesel engines with modern diesel particulate filters, I'd be recommending it at the top of my list for gasoline engine oils.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL it was about 6-7 years ago. I do not doubt that amsoil is better I was just stating that I have used mobile 1 and it worked well. But as I said "I am sure theres always something better".


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

blackbowtie said:


> This is all marketing. Makes people feel good about their purchase with a little "peace of mind".


Like the 250K warranty QuakerState used to offer, or still may.


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

^^^^^*insert fine print*


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Diesel Dan said:


> My last oil change had 7400 miles on it and the results were very good. Wear metals finally settling down from the new engine. Just over 16K total miles now and had 5W30 Amsoil SSO in it with a WIX filter.


Great to hear! I'll be looking forward to hearing more about how SSO stands up in the 1.4T past 7500 miles. If it can, I'll be all over it. 

As always, I learn new things.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

sciphi said:


> Great to hear! I'll be looking forward to hearing more about how SSO stands up in the 1.4T past 7500 miles. If it can, I'll be all over it.
> 
> As always, I learn new things.


There's a 11,200 mile UOA of 0W-30 SSO in the tiered oils thread. 

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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

Dear XR,

I am a retired chemical engineer and I did consulting work with many lubrication producers, not the least of which is Lubrizol. So yes, I know all about every one of your "knowledge challenges", even though you know for a fact that I don't.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> Every single time one of you asks this type of question, you are going to get a snake oil pitch from an AMS Oil small time marketer. You want film strength? Add an extreme pressure material such as found in gear oils. Not good for engine lubrication needs. Here is a snake oil pitch from a better informed source. Take your pick. Oil Film Strength of Mobil 1 Compared with Royal Purple





Erastimus said:


> Dear XR,
> 
> I am a retired chemical engineer and I did consulting work with many lubrication producers, not the least of which is Lubrizol. So yes, I know all about every one of your "knowledge challenges", even though you know for a fact that I don't.


Dear Erastimus. You don't see me flaunting credentials on this forum to credit myself, do you? Instead, what I do is take the time to post factual evidence, something you have failed to do. Your "evidence" is a direct link to Mobil 1's own website citing a Q&A. 

If you're going to call a product "snake oil" when I have repeatedly proven otherwise on this forum and others have done the same with used oil analysis, then it is your burden to show proof of your accusation. The reference to snake oil implies that the product does not perform as advertised. Furthermore, your thinly veiled personal attack on my character implying that I would knowingly lie to this community (it is a given that a "snake oil" salesman knows he is scamming his customers) is uncalled for. Your further implication that I attempted to "pitch" a product when I very clearly did not was also unwarranted. 

The additives I have referred to in the past were Boron and Molybdenum. It is ironic given your response that Mobil 1 contains both of those in substantial quantities. It is also clear that you took the time to respond without reading any of my previous posts, where I have very clearly stated that I recommend an oil that performs well across the board, and conceded to the point that Shell's 4-ball wear test is of limited relevance to modern engines. You have conveniently ignored the thermal oxidization problem in Mobil 1 EP, which should be considered an issue of significant importance given the presence of a turbocharger and piston cooling oil jets, and even more of an issue with an oil that is advertised for such a long oil drain interval. 

I am not concerned with your credentials; I am concerned your "facts" and your accusations. 

March 2013 - Test Results for AP


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm feeling deja vu from that thread on FB that Smorey started about additives not too long ago.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

Very colorful chart, XR. Lots of numbers. Every oil shown has the same EXACT conclusion - "Meets the requirements of API SN,ILSAC GF-5, SAE 5W-30 engine oil." So the best plan is to buy by price. You want empirical evidence? How about several cars taken to over 200,000 miles by me using synthetic oils that met the necessary API spec and by using 10,000 mile change intervals. All bought by price. To continue our interesting exchange of web links, here is one for all forum members - http://www.pqiamerica.com/pdf/SponsorshipProgramforweb.pdf. Independent but "sponsored." Interesting. Why aren't the sponsors listed?


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

While I agree with Erastimus somewhat, I have to ask this question: Did any of those cars you ran over 200K have an engine designed anywhere near to what the 1.4L Cruze engine is?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> Very colorful chart, XR. Lots of numbers. Every oil shown has the same EXACT conclusion - "Meets the requirements of API SN,ILSAC GF-5, SAE 5W-30 engine oil." So the best plan is to buy by price. You want empirical evidence? How about several cars taken to over 200,000 miles by me using synthetic oils that met the necessary API spec and by using 10,000 mile change intervals. All bought by price. To continue our interesting exchange of web links, here is one for all forum members - http://www.pqiamerica.com/pdf/SponsorshipProgramforweb.pdf. Independent but "sponsored." Interesting. Why aren't the sponsors listed?


You buy whatever you want. If you want to talk price, I can definitely show you what pitching an AMSOIL product is really like. For example, AMSOIL OE has no Magnesium but has more Moly and Boron than Mobil 1 and costs $4.44 a quart when bought by the case at wholesale. Same base stock, similar NOACK volatility and similar TBN but with more effective Calcium based detergents. That beats wally world Mobil 1 pricing. Now THAT is a sales pitch if you needed to see one. 

It's not hard to beat the API spec. You can have a NOACK volatility of 15% and beat the API spec. Doesn't mean it's a good oil. 

Sponsors aren't listed for the same reason AMSOIL doesn't identify the independent lab that performs their testing. Frankly as long as the numbers are accurate (which from the oil analysis I've seen, they are), then it doesn't really concern me who funds their operations. 



Jim Frye said:


> While I agree with Erastimus somewhat, I have to ask this question: Did any of those cars you ran over 200K have an engine designed anywhere near to what the 1.4L Cruze engine is?


The bigger question I'd be asking is, were those 200k miles run on the older PAO-based base stocks or the newer Hydrocracked base stocks? What gets me the most is people who say Mobil 1 is great because they had such good experiences in their last old car that went xxx,xxx miles. Rarely do those people want to acknowledge that the formulation changed and they are not using the same oil they did a decade ago. 

Of course, your question regarding engine design is valid. Running an oil inferior to Dexos1 specs in this car would not turn out well long-term.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Well, there's an 11 year old Mazda Protege5 in my garage with 90K miles on the clock. It's mostly city miles, so that's why it's so low. It's had M1 10W-30 in it since the factory fill was changed out at 3K miles. It gets a 10K mile OCI and it still uses no discernable oil between changes, and I'm sure it's been using some of that newer based stocks oil. It still gets 28 mpg in town and 39 mpg on the highway (it's a 4 spd auto) as it did when new. The only engine (or any issue) this car has had was the thermostat went south last August. 

Would I use this oil in a 1.4L Cruze? Of course not.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

On 3/8/2013



Erastimus said:


> It's a cold winter's night. You have a heated garage - forced hot air. Right after you take the fuel pump module out, your cell phone rings. It's the boss and he has a major issue to discuss. You go in the house and make a cup of coffee and put the boss on speakerphone. A half hour later, you return to drop the new module in. The hot air furnace calls for heat - VAROOM - the gasoline vapors have traveled over to the furnace, hugging the floor all the way because they are heavier than air and the flame flashed back to you and the gas tank. Pants on fire. I have issued my warning and stated my credentials. I will let it rest now - each of you who decides to do this after reading this entire thread has done so of a free will. Remember the laws of tort in the U.S. - juries almost always find for the plaintiff - firehawk618 and obermd could end up being be found culpable if a forum member gets hurt and sues those who led him/her to the injury. And I might be called to the trial as an expert witness - been there, done that.


On 8/11/2013



Erastimus said:


> So that's what that is. Thought I had a gremlin type electrical problem that was denying fuel to an injector or two momentarily. Now to locate the ABS fuse and pull it. Hope that cures this annoyance. Black tape over the ABS light and a note to self to put the fuse back in for annual safety inspection..........
> 
> I have the humanoid version of ABS in reserve, so don't worry about me crashing on slippery roads - it's called pumping the brakes. Learned how to do that in 1964 from my dad. Not from the creeps that teach Drivers Ed.


The above two quotes from you demonstrate that while you may have fooled a court you are not all that interested in safety if it interferes with your preconceived notions. The ABS system in GM cars & trucks pulses the brakes roughly ten times a second. The best humans can consistently do is two or three pulses per second. Yes, you can out brake ABS if you work on it and learn to threshold brake your car, but that takes a lot of time to learn and must be relearned for every vehicle and every set of tires. One thing juries hate most is a so-called Expert Safety Witness who is demonstrably inconsistent when it comes to the safety of other people which your second post very clearly shows. In addition, disabling the ABS system is a violation of Federal law and can land you in prison.

From this thread:



Erastimus said:


> Every single time one of you asks this type of question, you are going to get a snake oil pitch from an AMS Oil small time marketer. You want film strength? Add an extreme pressure material such as found in gear oils. Not good for engine lubrication needs. Here is a snake oil pitch from a better informed source. Take your pick. Oil Film Strength of Mobil 1 Compared with Royal Purple





Erastimus said:


> Very colorful chart, XR. Lots of numbers. Every oil shown has the same EXACT conclusion - "Meets the requirements of API SN,ILSAC GF-5, SAE 5W-30 engine oil." So the best plan is to buy by price. You want empirical evidence? How about several cars taken to over 200,000 miles by me using synthetic oils that met the necessary API spec and by using 10,000 mile change intervals. All bought by price. To continue our interesting exchange of web links, here is one for all forum members - http://www.pqiamerica.com/pdf/SponsorshipProgramforweb.pdf. Independent but "sponsored." Interesting. Why aren't the sponsors listed?


Your first post references a question asked comparing Mobil 1 to Royal Purple. We have had members test the Mobil 1 dexos1 oil and it does appear to OK after 10,000 miles in the Cruze. Even with this I'm not sure how the FAQ entry at Exxon/Mobil's web-site compares to the Petroleum Quality Institute of America's research, which is what XtremeRevolution based his posts on.

Your second reference to PQIAmerica's Sponsorship program is a red herring. If you had spent the 30 seconds to type in The Petroleum Quality Institute of America and read their home page you would have your answer. At best this was simple laziness on your part. At worst, you were attempting to discredit an argument by only showing one side. Maybe too much time as an "expert witness" (your words - first quoted post above). I also spent more time on PQIAmerica's web site and they not only test commonly available motor oils they use the same tests for each oil and provide a test date. This level of testing rigour is required to provide unbiased reports. Combining your lack of research with your past postings and posturing I have to come down on the attempt to discredit an argument side.

I also found a 2007 (I think it was 2007 based on the context of the references to it) report by Street Commodore Magazine in Australia refuting the Exxon/Mobile's FAQ entry. I also know that engine oils are formulated for each market and that the formulations change over time so that report may no longer be valid. This is why PQI America's test date is so important. The Exxon/Mobile FAQ entry has no date, which invalidates any conclusions that can be derived from that entry. No date means we have no reference point as to which formulations were being compared. I also found 2013 Motor Oil Comparison Test Results, which meets all the criteria for a valid test except one - we don't know who did the testing. We know AMSOil paid for this test so of course their conclusions will be weighted towards AMSOil but even in their conclusions the report lists the assumptions made. Given this and the assumptions in the conclusion I trust this report for the actual testing but not necessarily the conclusions (annual cost of competing products) derived from it.

To Erastimus, your demonstrated disregard for the safety of other people (second post above) combined with your claim to have been an "expert witness" (first post above) and your obvious lack of research before posting in this thread has completely ruined your reputation with me. Other members will need to come to their own opinions on this topic.

To all - I know next to nothing about motor oils other than what GM (current), Toyota (current), Dodge (previous), and Mitsubishi (previous) say is/was required for the cars I maintain, so I did indeed do the research before I posted. What I found is that opinions on oil frequently falls into the "lies, more lies, and statistics" category but that if you do the research you can pierce this veil and get some real answers. Oil company web sites frequently fall into the "lies, more lies, and statistics" category. I also confirmed my suspicion that you must have current research and that it must be done on oils available in your country/market because the oil companies use different formulations in different markets and also over time. This makes sense because cars and operating environment are highly variable across markets and as engine technology changes the oils must change as well.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> Well, there's an 11 year old Mazda Protege5 in my garage with 90K miles on the clock. It's mostly city miles, so that's why it's so low. It's had M1 10W-30 in it since the factory fill was changed out at 3K miles. It gets a 10K mile OCI and it still uses no discernable oil between changes, and I'm sure it's been using some of that newer based stocks oil. It still gets 28 mpg in town and 39 mpg on the highway (it's a 4 spd auto) as it did when new. The only engine (or any issue) this car has had was the thermostat went south last August.
> 
> Would I use this oil in a 1.4L Cruze? Of course not.


Era of the engine makes a huge difference in the types of oils you can use in the engine. My 1990 Pontiac Transport ran Penzoil for 240,000 miles. Yes it had waxy build up in the engine but that engine needed that for long life. Modern engines won't tolerate that buildup. This is why when synthetic oils that didn't leave any residue first came out they were very quickly followed by "high mileage" versions that did leave this residue.

This is one reason oil formulations change over time. The engine technology changes.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Yep, I just picked up a 5 Qt. jug of M1 10W-30 High Mileage oil for the P5's next oil change. We'll see if it does anything to the Silver Streak.


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

obermd said:


> ...In addition, disabling a Federally mandated motor vehicle safety system is a violation of Federal law and can land you in prison.


Off topic, but there is not a federal mandate in the US for anti-lock brakes systems. There has been in Europe for quite some time but not here. Heck, there may be a mandate for ABS on motorcycles before there is one for cars.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

The 1.4 turbo engine is not direct injected, so there is no cam follower (for a high pressure pump) to worry about and the turbocharger is continuously cooled by the engine anti-freeze so there is minimal high temperature soak after engine shutdown on the turbo bearing balls, so what makes this engine so difficult to lubricate? Main bearing clearance? Cam bearing clearance? Piston oil ring design? Variable valve timing actuators?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

blackbowtie said:


> Off topic, but there is not a federal mandate in the US for anti-lock brakes systems. There has been in Europe for quite some time but not here. Heck, there may be a mandate for ABS on motorcycles before there is one for cars.


Technically you are correct. However, from FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) 135:

S5.3.2. For vehicles equipped with ABS, a control to manually disable the ABS, either fully or partially, is prohibited.

All Chevy Cruze sold in the US and Canada are equipped with ABS. A fuse is a control.


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

obermd said:


> Technically you are correct. However, from FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) 135:
> 
> S5.3.2. For vehicles equipped with ABS, a control to manually disable the ABS, either fully or partially, is prohibited.
> 
> All Chevy Cruze sold in the US and Canada are equipped with ABS. A fuse is a control.


There is no technicality. I correctly stated that there is no federal mandate requiring ABS to be installed in US market vehicles. That was your statement that I addressed. Had your statement said that disabling the ABS was illegal, we wouldn't be having this conversation as I wholly agree with that statement. The wording of a "_federally mandated_ motor vehicle safety system" is the issue. 

(Disclaimer: Don't mind me, I'm drinking. I'll buy you a round in May!)ccasion14:


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I corrected the post - thank you.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> Yep, I just picked up a 5 Qt. jug of M1 10W-30 High Mileage oil for the P5's next oil change. We'll see if it does anything to the Silver Streak.


That's good oil. I think less highly of Mobil 1s other formulations...but that has a good additive package for older engines. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## CruzeEcoBlueTopaz (Jan 5, 2012)

I would like to say I drive a 12' cruze eco and used acdelco syn blend every 6k miles for the first 100k miles for a couple reasons. The maintenance was included as part of the deal when i purchased the vehicle and because it meets the minimum requirements for engine oil. After my first 100k I started to use oil I would have to pay for out of pocket and for the past 90k have been using mobil1 ep every 6k miles. I choose mb1 ep for a couple reasons. It meets the minimum dexos requirements and for someone who drives as many miles as I do its cost effective. 

My opinion regarding oil brands is simple. At the end of the day all oil companys are out to make a profit and certain brands offer superior oil. As a consumer its all about doing the research and figuring out which product makes sense for the consumer and application.

I will say knowing what I know about engine oil now my next new car purchase I will be using real synethic oil from day 1 based on research and not marketing.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Erastimus said:


> The 1.4 turbo engine is not direct injected, so there is no cam follower (for a high pressure pump) to worry about and the turbocharger is continuously cooled by the engine anti-freeze so there is minimal high temperature soak after engine shutdown on the turbo bearing balls, so what makes this engine so difficult to lubricate? Main bearing clearance? Cam bearing clearance? Piston oil ring design? Variable valve timing actuators?


This is what I go by with no questions asked per the Cruze Owner's Manual.

*"Notice: Failure to use the
recommended engine oil or
equivalent can result in engine
damage not covered by the
vehicle warranty. Check with your
dealer or service provider on
whether the oil is approved to the
dexos1 specification."*

*"Engine Oil Additives/Engine
Oil Flushes
Do not add anything to the oil. The
recommended oils with the dexos
specification and displaying the
dexos certification mark are all that
is needed for good performance and
engine protection.
Engine oil system flushes are not
recommended and could cause
engine damage not covered by the
vehicle warranty."*

*"When the system has calculated
that oil life has been diminished,
it indicates that an oil change is
necessary. A CHANGE ENGINE
OIL SOON DIC message or Code
82 DIC message comes on. See
Engine Oil Messages on page 5‑30.
Change the oil as soon as possible
within the next 1 000 km (600 mi).
It is possible that, if driving under
the best conditions, the oil life
system might indicate that an oil
change is not necessary for up to a
year. The engine oil and filter must
be changed at least once a year
and, at this time, the system must
be reset. Your dealer has trained
service people who will perform this
work and reset the system. It is also
important to check the oil regularly
over the course of an oil drain
interval and keep it at the
proper level.
If the system is ever reset
accidentally, the oil must be
changed at 5 000 km (3,000 mi)
since the last oil change.
Remember to reset the oil life
system whenever the oil
is changed."*

Been on the conservative side by changing my oil and filter well within a year with 20% oil life remaining. Except one time due to extremely inclement weather, 16% oil life remaining. And only using the recommended weight with dexos approved oil. 

Keep records, so the in event of engine damage within the 5 year or 100K mile warranty, Chevy cannot use this as an excuse not to repair my Cruze under warranty.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jim Frye said:


> Yep, I just picked up a 5 Qt. jug of M1 10W-30 High Mileage oil for the P5's next oil change. We'll see if it does anything to the Silver Streak.


Of all the oils I have used mobil 1 High mileage is one I avoid at all costs. With a month of switching to that oil vs regular mobil 1, I had an engine full of condensation. I didn't think much of this because it was extremely cold and was doing lots of short trips. 

A few months later was talking to my friend and he said check out the oil fill tube on his truck. Looking inside his engine upper half was coated with white sludge(condensation). Both of us never had issues until we use this oil, and switching away from it the problems never returned.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> The 1.4 turbo engine is not direct injected, so there is no cam follower (for a high pressure pump) to worry about and the turbocharger is continuously cooled by the engine anti-freeze so there is minimal high temperature soak after engine shutdown on the turbo bearing balls, so what makes this engine so difficult to lubricate? Main bearing clearance? Cam bearing clearance? Piston oil ring design? Variable valve timing actuators?


Piston cooling jets pull a lot of heat from the pistons, which are very hot as this engine is severely knock limited. 

In stock trim, the engine operates at 220-230 degrees F, which is a long shot from the 180-195 degrees we are used to. 

The turbo is coolant AND oil cooled. After a hard drive the coolant will boil once the car stops. Turbo engines regardless of cooling method are always harder on the oil than N/A engines. 

The piston and piston ring clearances are far tighter than older engines due to DLC piston rings. 

In the winter, the engine takes significantly longer to heat up, which contributes to fuel dilution. Better oils resist thinning from fuel dilution and protect better under those conditions. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

Erastimus said:


> The 1.4 turbo engine is not direct injected, so there is no cam follower (for a high pressure pump) to worry about and the turbocharger is continuously cooled by the engine anti-freeze so there is minimal high temperature soak after engine shutdown on the turbo bearing balls, so what makes this engine so difficult to lubricate? Main bearing clearance? Cam bearing clearance? Piston oil ring design? Variable valve timing actuators?


The tighter tolerances is also in smaller oil passages. Lately GM has been having "longevity" issues with timing components.
My desire to run high quality oils if for the timing components.



XtremeRevolution said:


> Piston cooling jets pull a lot of heat from the pistons, which are very hot as this engine is severely knock limited.
> 
> In stock trim, the engine operates at 220-230 degrees F, which is a long shot from the 180-195 degrees we are used to.


Coolant temperature is a non-issue but the addition of piston coolers adds to the heat load.
Electric fan cooled cars have had 230*F cut-in temps since the '80s.


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Well I've been running M1 EP in my Wife's cruze the past few oil changes. Looks like I'll be switching back to the regular Mobil 1.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Diesel Dan said:


> The tighter tolerances is also in smaller oil passages. Lately GM has been having "longevity" issues with timing components.
> My desire to run high quality oils if for the timing components.
> 
> 
> ...


The oil tolerances sludging were an issue with many Ecotec engines. 

The block as a whole will be cooler with a cooler thermostat. A thermostat that goes up to 230 degrees on a regular basis does increase the temperature of the oil as a result. It is worth noting that while those cut-in temps were 230F, the thermostats did not operate at those temperatures. My 95 Regal would do that as well but only if I was in stop and go traffic on a very hot day and the radiator couldn't keep the engine cool.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Other forms of extended oil changes, like a kid in college, but dad, have classes, part time job, and way too busy to have my oil changed. Found sludge on the dipstick, had to clean that up and flush out the old oil with new oil.

Ha, only takes 20 minutes to change oil, is this time to play a video game or something?

Guess there is no such thing as an extended oil change. Not only moisture, but carbon blow by as well. Also use to use leaded gasoline for parts cleaning, nothing cheaper than this. But this unleaded fuel burns your skin like acid so don't dare use this stuff. And ain't cheap either.


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> A thermostat that goes up to 230 degrees on a regular basis does increase the temperature of the oil as a result. It is worth noting that while those cut-in temps were 230F, the thermostats did not operate at those temperatures. My 95 Regal would do that as well but only if I was in stop and go traffic on a very hot day and the radiator couldn't keep the engine cool.


So what you are saying is that the opening temperature on the 1.4L is now 230*F?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I saw my ECO MT running at 226 F the other day (I have one with the digital temperature readout). Needless to say I kept an eye on that readout and it did drop back below 220. The DexCool/water mixture has a sea level boiling point of 260+ F. Running under pressure brings this to close to 300 F.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Diesel Dan said:


> So what you are saying is that the opening temperature on the 1.4L is now 230*F?


Under stock trim my Cruze regularly operated at 220-230 F. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

A fuse is not a control. A control receives an input and changes an output. A fuse is a sacrificial safety device.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Erastimus said:


> A fuse is not a control. A control receives an input and changes an output. A fuse is a sacrificial safety device.


If your "input" is to pull the fuse and dissable the system it powers, that fuse is no different than a switch.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Erastimus said:


> The 1.4 turbo engine is not direct injected, so there is no cam follower (for a high pressure pump) to worry about and the turbocharger is continuously cooled by the engine anti-freeze so there is minimal high temperature soak after engine shutdown on the turbo bearing balls, so what makes this engine so difficult to lubricate? Main bearing clearance? Cam bearing clearance? Piston oil ring design? Variable valve timing actuators?


I don't think the 1.4T's clearances are much different from any other engine out there designed to run on 30 weight oil. As you indicate, the turbo is water cooled so that's not much of a concern, and the cam actuators are not a source of oil degradation but are definitely affected by it.

It's not a hard engine to lubricate, but what makes this engine harder on oil than others is mainly the turbocharger. It spins at a very high speed and is putting high shear loads on the oil. It is not a ball bearing turbo, it is just a regular journal bearing unit.

Higher operating temps don't help either. Even though it has an oil cooler, since the normal operating temperature for this engine is over 220F it means the oil temperature will be slightly higher than that. If coolant temps are constantly in the 220-230F range, oil may be in the 240-250F range. This should not be an issue for any brand name synthetic oil, but it has proven an issue with lesser oils that just "meet" the minimum requirements, like the GM Dexos 1 oil. Any well regarded synthetic oil should work fine, and does based on several Used Oil Analysis.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Diesel Dan said:


> So what you are saying is that the opening temperature on the 1.4L is now 230*F?


IIRC, the opening temperature of the thermostat is 221F and it is fully open at 240F. When the ECU commands heating the wax pellet, the opening temperature drops down to the low 190's (I think) to keep coolant from boiling in the head during periods of high load.


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## Lostiguy (Feb 15, 2014)

I have only gone through a third of this thread, but has anyone said which oil we should be using. I haven't done a change yet but plan to soon and because I am new to the Cruze world just want to know what some of you are using. I have a stock '12 2lt with 44000.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Lostiguy said:


> I have only gone through a third of this thread, but has anyone said which oil we should be using. I haven't done a change yet but plan to soon and because I am new to the Cruze world just want to know what some of you are using. I have a stock '12 2lt with 44000.


See the first post in this thread:
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-powertrain/41385-tiered-oils-list-understanding-synthetics.html

Stick with anything in that list and you'll be just fine for over 200,000 miles. 

FWIW, I've switched to Pennzoil Ultra after doing lots of reading on the subject.


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## Lostiguy (Feb 15, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion. That's all I was looking for. Love my Cruze, all my vehicles, and want to use the best recommended products that will give me the best results


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> FWIW, I've switched to Pennzoil Ultra after doing lots of reading on the subject.


As did I. With that deal that Pep Boys had over last weekend I bought enough to last me at least a year and half.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

Blue Angel - the ball bearing turbocharger is coming - Journal Bearings vs. Ball Bearings | Turbobygarrett


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Erastimus said:


> Blue Angel - the ball bearing turbocharger is coming...


Ball bearing turbochargers have been around for a long time, but since they are more expensive that journal bearing turbos their adoption into OEM applications is limited, usually in higher priced performance oriented vehicles. Mass produced engines like the 1.4T will likely continue using journal bearing turbos for a long time.

Thanks for the link.


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

Actually bbts have been in use for a while. Nissan has been a big purveyor of them. IIRC, they was putting them in Silvias as far back as 1990 and commerical diesels around 97'-98'. Obviously they are the bees knees of the aftermarket community as well.

Cost of mfg is what keep most auto makers from implementing these as its much cheaper to use journal bearings.

ETA: I feel like there's a parrot in here sometimes....


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

^Yep, and in most cases, in non-high-performance vehicles where turbos aren't normally relied on for crazy amounts of forced air, a well-taken care of journal bearing turbocharger will last upwards of 150-200K...or the projected life of the car for most owners. Which makes the extra cost of a ball-bearing turbo unnecessary for the OEM's. It's rather rare for the bearings to go out unless over-spun or under-oiled...most turbo failures I've seen on older vehicles besides the obvious turbine impact or over-speeding - are due to old or blown-out seals.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> FWIW, I've switched to Pennzoil Ultra after doing lots of reading on the subject.


 Same here - last oil change was to Pennzoil Ultra. That being said - of the three top tier oils on Extremes list - at this time the only Dexos 1 labeled / certified is the Quaker State Ultimate Durability, I picked up 5 qts over the week end.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blk88verde said:


> Same here - last oil change was to Pennzoil Ultra. That being said - of the three top tier oils on Extremes list - at this time the only Dexos 1 labeled / certified is the Quaker State Ultimate Durability, I picked up 5 qts over the week end.


Those oils so far exceed the DEXOS1 specifications that there isn't any reason not to use any one of them. You don't need to use a DEXOS1 certified oil to keep your warranty; you need to use an oil that meets or exceeds the specifications. GM will never look at a failed engine after it used a synthetic oil and ask "what oil did you use" unless there is notable sludge and varnish on the internals.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

88 Supra uses air bearings in the Turbo, rotors spin in excess of 100,000 rpm and well known for extremely long life.

Not even sure what the Cruze is using, but was under the impression its covered under that 100K mile warranty. New one is around 400 bucks.

So for now, just want to make sure I am not voiding the warranty requirements. 

Getting accustomed to the idea, our vehicles are just more throwaway items.


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## blackbowtie (Jul 4, 2013)

NickD said:


> 88 Supra uses air bearings in the Turbo, rotors spin in excess of 100,000 rpm and well known for extremely long life.
> 
> Not even sure what the Cruze is using, but was under the impression its covered under that 100K mile warranty. New one is around 400 bucks.
> 
> ...


Do you mean foil-air bearings? If so, I was unaware they were using those in any CT-26 Supra turbo. Feel pretty certain they were all journals.

But yes, turbo assembly is covered under powertrain warranty. They are pretty much throwaway though. Heck even if just your BPV goes bad they throw on a brand new turbo instead of replacing a $5 part. This will probably change though, they already have it blocked in the parts diagram with it's own number (#4 below). It is not yet available though by itself. The turbo HHR's used to be this way but GM caught on and started offering the BPV by itself.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

NickD said:


> 88 Supra uses air bearings in the Turbo, rotors spin in excess of 100,000 rpm and well known for extremely long life.
> 
> Not even sure what the Cruze is using...


Cruze uses a good 'ol journal bearing full of oil at engine pressure, and spins over 200,000 RPM... it's pretty small.

I had no idea there was a production car with air turbo bearings. Apparently they are succeptable to start-up/shut-down wear, but I guess they've achieved a good rep in that application... who knew?


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Well my Wife's Cruze, and mine are both due for an oil change. They both have M1 EP in them right now, but I'm switching to this as of today.











I tried to get Pennzoil Ultra, but no one carries it around my area. Atleast this is better than the M1.


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## jalaner (Dec 28, 2013)

ABS has never been mandated for cars in the US because accident, injury, and death rates vs non ABS cars are not reduced as much as the better safety systems. ESC, seat belts, and air bags are much more effective and thus mandated for all new cars. I would not exceed the manufacturer oil change interval regardless of oil quality because of the oil dilution that occurs over time. I believe dilution is more significant than oil brand or quality for my mostly low rpm driving style.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

As of model year 2012:

"*49 CFR Parts 571 & 585* *Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards; Electronic Stability Control Systems*
As part of a comprehensive plan for reducing the serious risk of rollover crashes and the risk of death and serious injury in those crashes, this rule establishes Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 126 to require electronic stability control (ESC) systems on passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses with a gross vehicle weight rating of 4,536 Kg (10,000 pounds) or less. ESC systems use automatic computer-controlled braking of individual wheels to assist the driver in maintaining control in critical driving situations. NHTSA estimates ESC will reduce single-vehicle crashes of passenger cars by 34% and single vehicle crashes of sport utility vehicles (SUVs) by 59%, with a much greater reduction of rollover crashes. NHTSA estimates ESC would save 5,300 to 9,600 lives and prevent 156,000 to 238,000 injuries in all types of crashes annually once all light vehicles on the road are equipped with ESC. "

What is stability control? An addition to ABS, uses the same wheel sensors, computer, modulator, etc. So can say ABS is mandated as well. In 2011, still could buy an Aveo without ABS, but not anymore.


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## jalaner (Dec 28, 2013)

Your right. I should have specified stand alone ABS. It was surprisingly ineffective. Some research indicated no benefit at all because the early systems were noisy, intrusive, and distracted the driver in emergency situations.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jalaner said:


> I would not exceed the manufacturer oil change interval regardless of oil quality because of the oil dilution that occurs over time. I believe dilution is more significant than oil brand or quality for my mostly low rpm driving style.


This is why many manufacturers are incorporating Oil Life Monitors in their new vehicles. The OLM will tailor your Oil Change Interval based on your driving. If you do mainly long highway trips where the engine and oil are operating at full temperature your calculated OCI will be longer. If you do mostly short trips and/or operate in cold ambient temperatures where the engine and oil do not operate at full temperature, your calculated OCI will be shorter.

Fuel dilution is a concern, but is more engine temperature dependant than RPM dependant (cold starts and lots of cold idling/remote starter use). Low RPM driving has no adverse effect on oil life as long as the engine and oil are operating at full temperature. Using myself as an example, I doubt pretty much anyone operates a 1.4T at lower RPM than I do on a consistent basis yet my Used Oil Analysis came back showing negligible fuel content after ~7500 miles.

The 1.4T in the Cruze uses an oil heater/cooler that uses coolant to speed the warming of the oil on a cold start, as well as keep the oil from getting too hot during sustained high load use. This temperature management goes a long way to making sure oil life is maximised.


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