# Broke my '12 Eco



## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

You ever make a little mistake that turns into a big problem, which snowballs into an avalanche of more mistakes and more problems so fast it makes your head spin? I had one of those in November. It's kind of a long story, and ultimately only the consequences are important, so you can skip to the end if you want.

My car is a 2012 Cruze Eco, with 80k miles. It's in great shape. It's probably the best car for road trips I've ever had. I made a road trip up to see my parents in Oregon for Thanksgiving. I like to explore new routes on my road trips, so I was taking the scenic route back along highway 140 through southern Oregon, which I've never done before. There's not much civilization along that road. About 400 miles in, I passed by Denio Junction, thinking I should get gas. Was that even a gas station, there? I couldn't tell. I decided I was okay; I knew I was about 80 miles from a Shell station north of Winnemucca, and I went 530 miles on my last tank without coming close to running out.

That was my little mistake. 40 miles later, the car dinged at me. "Engine power reduced," the screen said. Then, it died. I slowly rolled to a stop on an empty highway in remote northern Nevada (right about here). No gas, no phone signal.

I managed to flag down a westbound car willing to take me (and my two dogs) back to Denio for gas. It turns out there was a single gas pump there, the only one for nearly 100 miles around. The attached restaurant/store had no jerry cans for sale, though. The lady running the store had a look out back, and managed to find one in a shed, which I bought from her. That was my next mistake.

It took nearly an hour to find someone willing to pick me up and take me, my dogs, and my gas back to my car. More than three hours after running out of gas, I emptied the 2-gallon tank into the car, and fired it up again.

It ran, but boy, it had hardly any power. The "Engine power reduced" message never went away. I figured it had entered some kind of "limp-home" mode when I first ran out of gas. I could barely keep up with traffic once I turned south on 95. About 30 miles after running out of gas, I ran out _again_. Two gallons of gas gone in 30 miles. Luckily, I rolled to a stop about a quarter-mile from the Shell station I was originally shooting for out there in the remote high desert. I hiked over and re-filled my jerry can.

But the car wouldn't start. I managed to get it to rev once, which let out a huge cloud of blue smoke. Then it would start no more. And my phone still wouldn't work.

I hiked back to the gas station, and got the attendant to call a tow for me. I was only 20 miles north of Winnemucca, which is a small town, but it's on I-80, so it has plenty of gas, food, and service stations.

It was Sunday, so I spent the night in a cheap motel, waiting for Monday. The mechanic there drained the remaining bad gas (that was the problem, bad gas) from the lines, and replaced the spark plugs, which were choked with carbon. They assumed it was two-stroke gas. The car still puffed blue smoke from the exhaust, but it ran. We assumed it was residual 2-stroke oil in the filter and lines. It wasn't. Yet another little mistake.

I continued home, sticking to the well-traveled Highway 95. The car would occasionally lag and puff a cloud of blue smoke if I hit the gas hard, but I still assumed it was oil in the gas.

400 miles later, in Beatty, the car dinged again, demanding that I shut it down immediately. Low oil pressure! Small miracle, I just happened to be next to a gas station. Imagine, that could have been two tows in two days. 

It took three whole quarts to get it back to the top half of the dipstick indicator. This was bad. Not wanting to spend another night in a cheap motel, I bought two more quarts and kept going, driving gently. This turned out to be an okay decision, my first in a while. The car lost only half a quart more in the remaining 400 miles to Phoenix.

I pretty much left the car alone out of disgust for the next month, using my bike to get to work and pick up groceries. Oil was dripping from the throttle body and the intercooler. I was hoping it was somehow a PCV issue, even though I had installed Xtreme's retrofit immediately after buying the car. No luck, the PCV system was fine. I finally did a compression test last weekend (the new spark plugs were gross again, #4 was the worst). The results: 

Cylinder 1: *210*
Cylinder 2: *182*
Cylinder 3: *218*
Cylinder 4: *80*

I doubt it had been 2-stroke gas in the jerry can. It was probably really old, or had water in it, or both. Whatever it was, it killed my engine. One mistake after another.

I took it to a mechanic anyway, since I'm no professional, but they agreed with my results. It was time to rebuild or replaced.

The shop quoted $4250 to replace the engine, and $850 more to replace the turbo while they're at it. That was... a little more than I expected, to say the least. I live in an apartment, so I don't have the space or the tools to do the kind of work the car needs now. I thought it over for the rest of the day, slept on it, and decided against dumping the car as a "mechanic's special" and replacing it. I'll pony up to get it fixed, but my question to all of you is, does $5000 sound at all reasonable? Is there any possible cheaper solution?

One thing's for sure: I'll never pass up a gas station in the middle of nowhere again. $4.50 a gallon isn't so bad, now that know what the alternative can be like...


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

During the Summer especially if you didn't have water you might have died as well. I have the AAA. and pay extra for four 100 mile tow's including one 200 mile tow. As a rule you don't want to stop at those last chance World War 2 Gas places as their tanks could be corroded or worse...

Did you tip the person who helped you? When a friend and I broke down near Barstow a known area 'helper' drove by after 2 hours in the Hot Sun. As we were getting ready to head into town the CHP showed up and arrested him. Seems its not legal to patrol the Freeways in California looking for customers without a business license. I brought this up once before, poor guy had a dog and asked if we could hold it, the Cop took it.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

One guy on youtube paid the dealer $3500 to replace his engine. They wouldn't warranty it. 

Nothing was mentioned about replacing the turbo.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

Eddy Cruze said:


> During the Summer especially if you didn't have water you might have died as well. I have the AAA. and pay extra for four 100 mile tow's including one 200 mile tow. As a rule you don't want to stop at those last chance World War 2 Gas places as their tanks could be corroded or worse...
> 
> Did you tip the person who helped you? When a friend and I broke down near Barstow a known area 'helper' drove by after 2 hours in the Hot Sun. As we were getting ready to head into town the CHP showed up and arrested him. Seems its not legal to patrol the Freeways in California looking for customers without a business license. I brought this up once before, poor guy had a dog and asked if we could hold it, the Cop took it.


I always carry water on long trips, no matter the season. That area gets pretty darn cold at night, too, this time of year. I took my road trip during Thanksgiving this year instead of Christmas to avoid the snow. This picture is from the same region another year, when I was coming back from Christmas instead:










AAA would have been nice at the time, if I could have found a working phone. You never think you'd need a service like that... until you do.  Those last-chance gas stations were the only thing I saw for about 300 miles. It's a pretty remote part of the country.

I tried to tip both the guy who took me to Denio, and the guy who brought me back to my car (both older men in the mining industry), and both refused. I told them I'm glad people like them are still out there in the world.

That's pretty messed up about your helper. At least the road I was on had a car every 5-10 minutes or so.



snowwy66 said:


> One guy on youtube paid the dealer $3500 to replace his engine. They wouldn't warranty it.
> 
> Nothing was mentioned about replacing the turbo.


Thanks for the data point; I'll shop around, getting quotes from a couple of places before I take the plunge. 

It makes sense to me to replace the turbo at the same time, especially after it's eaten so much oil (and run so low on oil, oops). They have to install a turbo no matter what; it might as well be new.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

That was meant as no price would be known as it didn't get replaced. I could only give you what he paid for the engine. :xmas:


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## jmlo96 (May 2, 2015)

You can get low mileage engines for these cars from the junk yard for a few hundred dollars. Usually they come with the turbo as well. I recall someone getting an engine out of a wrecked Cruze with 10k miles for about 700 dollars. I would say it shouldn't cost more than 2k going that route.

Also, I would check your cars value right now. Consider how long you plan to keep it, because it may be worth a lot less than you'd think.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

I know finding a used engine on my own would save a lot of money, and I'd be happy to do that if I was putting it in myself, but if I'm paying a shop to put it in for me, I'd rather the responsibility be on them to provide a good motor. If I give them a motor, and it doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'll be out at least $2k and right back where I started.

KBB values my car at $6,800 if it had a working motor. I paid $6,000 for it a year ago, probably because several potential buyers before me had turned their noses up at it when they noticed the original owner was a smoker. I used to detail cars professionally. You'd never know it had been smoked in today. I really do like the car; it's worth it to me to pay what it takes to get it fixed.


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## jmlo96 (May 2, 2015)

scratchpaddy said:


> I know finding a used engine on my own would save a lot of money, and I'd be happy to do that if I was putting it in myself, but if I'm paying a shop to put it in for me, I'd rather the responsibility be on them to provide a good motor. If I give them a motor, and it doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'll be out at least $2k and right back where I started.
> 
> KBB values my car at $6,800 if it had a working motor. I paid $6,000 for it a year ago, probably because several potential buyers before me had turned their noses up at it when they noticed the original owner was a smoker. I used to detail cars professionally. You'd never know it had been smoked in today. I really do like the car; it's worth it to me to pay what it takes to get it fixed.


 I love my Cruze too, but I never would pay that much for an engine replacement. Say you pay the 5,000 and then next month the transmission blows up. Then you have to put another 3 grand into the car. That's not even counting on any other repairs. 

Last time I had my work apparaise my 2014 Cruze was about a year ago. It had about 30,000 miles and I keep mine as close to pristine as you can get. They told me that they could give me about 6,500 dollars for it on trade in. 

I totally do understand wanting to fix the car though. I would call a few other shops and see what their quotes would be. It doesn't hurt to shop around. 5 grand to fix an almost 7 year old car just doesn't make financial sense in my mind.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

Ah, you're talking trade-in value. I meant private party sale. Dealers aren't going to pay much for your car. They gotta make money, ya know. :tongue:

$5k is a big chunk of money to spend on a car, for sure. 7 years isn't that old, though. The average car on the road is 11.6 years old. Let's assume I can find someone to replace the engine for $4k. I doubt I could get more than $2k for the car if I dumped it as-is. If that's true, selling now or selling after it's fixed makes little to no difference, money-wise. So, it's not like I'm at a financial crossroads. Whether I replace it or fix it, I have to spend a bunch of money, and I'm left with a car worth $6k or so. Whether that car needs more expensive repairs in the future is unknown. My Cruze has a manual transmission, so I don't expect that to blow up any time soon.

I'm really picky about cars. I don't like non-colors like white, grey, and black, which rules out 3 out of 4 cars now. I like stick shift, ruling out 19 out of 20 of the remaining cars. I would never buy an SUV, I don't like black interiors, I like good mileage... there aren't many cars out there anymore that I would be willing to buy.


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## williscu (Apr 10, 2018)

Im with ya there. If its not BLUE & has a stick I wont buy it. 

Therefore my ICE blue metallic eco has crossed 250,000 miles.:signs065:


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I"m all for the blue. I prefer auto's though.


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## jmlo96 (May 2, 2015)

scratchpaddy said:


> Ah, you're talking trade-in value. I meant private party sale. Dealers aren't going to pay much for your car. They gotta make money, ya know. :tongue:
> 
> $5k is a big chunk of money to spend on a car, for sure. 7 years isn't that old, though. The average car on the road is 11.6 years old. Let's assume I can find someone to replace the engine for $4k. I doubt I could get more than $2k for the car if I dumped it as-is. If that's true, selling now or selling after it's fixed makes little to no difference, money-wise. So, it's not like I'm at a financial crossroads. Whether I replace it or fix it, I have to spend a bunch of money, and I'm left with a car worth $6k or so. Whether that car needs more expensive repairs in the future is unknown. My Cruze has a manual transmission, so I don't expect that to blow up any time soon.
> 
> I'm really picky about cars. I don't like non-colors like white, grey, and black, which rules out 3 out of 4 cars now. I like stick shift, ruling out 19 out of 20 of the remaining cars. I would never buy an SUV, I don't like black interiors, I like good mileage... there aren't many cars out there anymore that I would be willing to buy.


I was indeed referring to trade in value. Just curious, was the new engine going to be brand new or a reman?

A piece of friendly advice - make sure you have 2.5 quarts of high quality manual transmission fluid in your car. The M32 manual transmission in the Cruze is known to have the 6th gear bearing fail from not getting enough lubrication. That will help the transmission last a long time.

Best of luck to you! Keep us posted how everything turns out.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

I love the ice blue color, too. I'd honestly prefer it, but I'm perfectly okay with the "crystal claret" I wound up with.

jmlo96, I'm pretty sure the first shop was quoting a remanufactured motor.

The very first thing I did when I got the car last year was drain and re-fill the transmission with 2.5 quarts of Amsoil Synchromesh. It's definitely the smoothest manual I've ever driven, but I've never driven anything with so few miles on it before.

It'll be another month or two before I can afford to fix the car, but I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## neonguy528 (Jul 5, 2018)

Whenever I take a trip, I rent a car. There are too many bad things that can happen on the highway.


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## gliderdriver (Jan 7, 2018)

neonguy528 said:


> Whenever I take a trip, I rent a car. There are too many bad things that can happen on the highway.


You can get totaled pulling out of your driveway, too :grin:


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

A study by Progressive Insurance estimated that more than half of accidents (52%) happen within 5 miles of home. My first car was struck and totaled by a cellphone-distracted driver about five miles from home. My second car struck and totaled by a dunk driver while it was sitting in my apartment's parking lot.

When I'm out far from home, I'd rather be in a car I'm familiar with, and I know has been taken care of. Obviously stuff can still happen, but honestly, I'd rather go through this ordeal in my own car, than deal with a rental company coming after me for destroying theirs.


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## neonguy528 (Jul 5, 2018)

If you are a stupid driver and don't pay attention that's true. Obviously you missed my point about having a rental car completely.


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## neonguy528 (Jul 5, 2018)

If you destroy a rental, yes corporate will on you. But if you have an accident, your insurance company will deal with it, not you.


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## Garv214 (May 14, 2018)

Scratchpaddy, you may just want to part ways and start fresh on this.... If you do replace the engine, you may be sinking $5K into this car and now your car will have a "story" that you will have to share with any potential buyers if you ever decide to sell in the future. You may want to look at CarGurus.com for the Phoenix area to see what else there might be out that way as an alternative. 

There is a car in Avondale, it checks all your boxes, and rings in at under $7K (Gateway Chevrolet in Avondale) I cannot post a link just yet... but you can find it easily enough


However you choose to proceed, good luck. All the best to you!


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## Garv214 (May 14, 2018)

The car is a Crystal Red ECO (2012)


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## Garv214 (May 14, 2018)

Here is the link:

https://www.gatewaychevrolet.com/Ve...vrolet-Cruze-Sedan_ECO-Avondale-AZ/3349186063


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

Garv, thanks for the link. It's like they're selling my exact car, except with a black interior. Same miles, same exterior color, manual transmission. Pretty funny. Remember that there's going to be at least $1,500 on top of that quoted price in taxes and fees, though.

Of course I'll tell potential buyers about this episode when I decide to sell someday, but I'd personally be happy to buy a car that had is engine replaced with one with lower miles. It wasn't wrecked, and everything damaged is being replaced. Plus Chevys depreciate fast. It's not going to be worth much by then regardless.

I got a quote from another shop today, and they also came in at $5k. Both shops were quoting used engines, too. It's looking less like I'll be able to fix it for less money. And the $2k I mentioned earlier about possibly dumping it for seems wildly optimistic. Maybe for a Toyota, but not a Chevy. Fixing it is still the cheapest thing to do, unless I downgrade to a Craigslist beater.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

neonguy528 said:


> If you are a stupid driver and don't pay attention that's true. Obviously you missed my point about having a rental car completely.


You obviously missed my point about the study and the nature of the accidents. There was nothing I could do to avoid either accident. I wasn't even in my car the second time. My point was, stuff happens, and it's most likely to happen close to home. Sometimes insurance will cover it, like you said. If not, I'd rather not be on the hook for a nearly-new rental car, and at the mercy of a company who will fix it in the most expensive possible way and go after me for every cent. You're right, I don't see the point of a rental if using your own car is an option.


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## neonguy528 (Jul 5, 2018)

If you have full coverage insurance, that covers anything you drive. But you chose to drive your high mileage car thousands of miles from home. I just sold a 2003 Dodge Neon SXT with 137,000 pampered miles. But I was smart enough to know not to drive it on a long trip. I rented cars for those trips.


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## sss (Dec 1, 2018)

I was in a similar situation 9 years ago 1998 towncar, engine threw a rod. Decided to ship car home 800 miles replace the motor with Ford crate 3 years or 36000 warranty 1800.00 motor 1400.00 labor. 
Could of went junkyard and local mech.for half price but wanted peace of mind warranty.
Still runs good let my son have it 225,000 miles on it.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

What exactly is wrong with the car? I know the early models had problems with cracked pistons. I don't know if there was any special coverage for that (you're outside of the power train warranty), but it's something to check on. Create an account at my.chevrolet.com, input the VIN and see what comes up.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

ChevyGuy said:


> What exactly is wrong with the car? I know the early models had problems with cracked pistons. I don't know if there was any special coverage for that (you're outside of the power train warranty), but it's something to check on. Create an account at my.chevrolet.com, input the VIN and see what comes up.


Don't think Chevy ever acknowledged that with an extended warranty. There are extended coverages for things like the water pump, brake booster switch, etc.

@*scratchpaddy*, do you have any friends that wrench around with older cars or might have some of the equipment to do such a thing? Engine hoists are fairly cheap, and you can rent many specialty tools from an Autozone or the like, and then return them.

We've put a new motor in a classic BMW and an old junkheap of a Volvo that tons of money had been sunk into over the years...gave both of them a new lease on life, and for far less than $5k.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

neonguy528 said:


> If you have full coverage insurance, that covers anything you drive. But you chose to drive your high mileage car thousands of miles from home. I just sold a 2003 Dodge Neon SXT with 137,000 pampered miles. But I was smart enough to know not to drive it on a long trip. I rented cars for those trips.


Clearly we have different tolerance for risk (though maybe we agree that a Dodge is not to be trusted :tongue. The Cruze is by far the newest, lowest-mileage car I've ever owned. I had a '96 Geo Metro for a few years with 250,000 miles. I drove it to Oregon and back four times, always taking the scenic routes (including the Pacific Coast Highway starting in San Diego), and never had a problem. If a seven-year-old car with only 80,000 miles shouldn't be trusted for a long trip, I'd rather not have a car at all.

What happened here had little to do with the condition of the car, though. The problem was me putting poison in the gas tank.



sss said:


> I was in a similar situation 9 years ago 1998 towncar, engine threw a rod. Decided to ship car home 800 miles replace the motor with Ford crate 3 years or 36000 warranty 1800.00 motor 1400.00 labor.
> Could of went junkyard and local mech.for half price but wanted peace of mind warranty.
> Still runs good let my son have it 225,000 miles on it.


Those are more like the numbers I had in my head before I started getting quotes. Apparently the 1.4 turbo is an expensive engine. 

@*ChevyGuy* , I don't know exactly what's wrong with the motor, but the symptoms are low compression on cylinder #4, and massive oil consumption due to crankcase pressure pushing oil through the turbo into the intake. I'm assuming that means a problem with the piston or the rings. Whatever it is, it's internal to the motor, and nobody wants to open this motor up. I don't believe any of the extended coverages went past 6 years, and my car is an early '12 model, built in October of 2011.

@*jblackburn*, If I had a house, I'd be that guy. If I did have a friend like that, I wouldn't bother taking it to any shops. One of the machinists at work is like that (he has seven cars, all older than me), but he's getting old and sick of it. He doesn't even like working on his wife's car anymore, and he hates newer stuff with a passion.

Another guy at work told me about a retired dealership mechanic who works out of his own garage now in Mesa. My co-worker has been really impressed with this guy's work so far, so I'll try him next.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

scratchpaddy said:


> The problem was me putting poison in the gas tank.


That part puzzles me as well. It sure sounds like it's connected, but I'm having trouble understanding how/what happened.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

I don't get it either, but it ran perfectly before that jerry can of gas went into the tank. I'd been keeping a close eye on oil level and condition because of the PCV issues the car is known for, and because I'd never owned a turbo before, and it never went down over 5,000 miles before then. I'm certain that the gas caused the problem. I just don't know what, exactly, was wrong with the gas that messed my engine up so badly.

Does anybody know exactly when the early Cruze cracked-piston issue was fixed? I think I read it was limited to the '11 models. My car is model-year 2012, but it was built in October of 2011...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

scratchpaddy said:


> I don't get it either, but it ran perfectly before that jerry can of gas went into the tank. I'd been keeping a close eye on oil level and condition because of the PCV issues the car is known for, and because I'd never owned a turbo before, and it never went down over 5,000 miles before then. I'm certain that the gas caused the problem. I just don't know what, exactly, was wrong with the gas that messed my engine up so badly.
> 
> Does anybody know exactly when the early Cruze cracked-piston issue was fixed? I think I read it was limited to the '11 models. My car is model-year 2012, but it was built in October of 2011...


Never. It happens to all years of them. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> Never. It happens to all years of them.


I thought it settled down and didn't come back until Gen2 rolled out.

But if GM doesn't have an extended warranty for it, then it makes no difference. 

There's a few things that can lead to low compression, but I think rings/cracked piston is the only that that would combine with oil consumption. 

Sure would be nice to hear Robby's 2¢.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

ChevyGuy said:


> I thought it settled down and didn't come back until Gen2 rolled out.
> 
> But if GM doesn't have an extended warranty for it, then it makes no difference.
> 
> ...


We've seen it happen to 13s-15s around the forum. It was more prevalent in the earlier years like the 11, but like with the Gen 2, I suspect it occurred less when they updated the ECM tunes over the years.


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## scratchpaddy (May 6, 2018)

That makes sense, then. The issue (or one of the issues) was pre-ignition, wasn't it? The engines were designed and, at first, built, in Europe, where the standards for gas are tighter. Originally the ECM advanced the timing too aggressively, causing pre-ignition and putting a lot of stress on the pistons, which already have to work pretty hard in a tiny, turbocharged engine pulling a 3,000lb sedan.

I just did some reading on what happens to gas when it gets old. The problem is actually much worse than it used to be, thanks to ethanol-blended gas. Pure gasoline and water do not mix, but ethanol loves water. E10 blend can absorb 50 times more water than pure gasoline. Once enough water is absorbed, and it doesn't take much (a little over a tablespoon of water per gallon of E10 gas), the whole thing starts to separate into ethanol-starved gas and ethanol-rich water (a process called phase separation). The resulting mixture has a lower octane rating.

The octane number is a measure of how resistant gas is to pre-ignition. So, I must have put this gas with an abnormally low octane number into a car already prone to pre-ignition problems. The ECU wasn't able to back off timing enough to compensate, and here we are.

Fascinating!


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I don't know what the timing advance was on the earlier models. But mine shows around 25 - 30 give or take. Which is pretty much inline with the old motors that had centrifugal and vacuum advance distributors. 


The problem with ethanol. I let my motorcycle sit over winter. There's grains in the carb bowl. I don't know about todays gas but if sat long enough. I've done a lot of motorcycle carbs that were nothing but slime inside. Literally.


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> The problem with ethanol.


I don't think it's worth the hassle, at least not in E10 and E15 blends. The pollution reduction is minimal, but fuel systems get gunked up pretty bad, especially for non-ethanol compatible stuff like my lawnmower, my weedeater and my boat. 

(The E85 stuff may have some true benefit, but the gas mileage goes to crap, resulting in needing ~50% more fuel for the same distance.)

I'd love to see the gov't mandate for ethanol repealed. Maybe that will happen some day.

Doug

.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

snowwy66 said:


> I don't know what the timing advance was on the earlier models. But mine shows around 25 - 30 give or take. Which is pretty much inline with the old motors that had centrifugal and vacuum advance distributors.
> 
> 
> The problem with ethanol. I let my motorcycle sit over winter. There's grains in the carb bowl. I don't know about todays gas but if sat long enough. I've done a lot of motorcycle carbs that were nothing but slime inside. Literally.


Yeah, but those engines weren't shoving 15 psi of boost down a tiny little engines throat at 2000 rpm. And even then, put low octane in an old school engine with advanced timing and boom. 

We've come to about the limit of what naturally aspirated engines can do with port injection on 87 Oct with compression ratios and computer control that just keep them from knocking. Throw a turbo into the mix, and the ECM and camshaft control solenoids can only dial back so far. While they're designed to run on what is probably highly refined 87, throw some swill from other countries outside N America or EU nation's at it, and I can see bad things happening. Probably why the 1.4T only released in a select few markets and the old and fairly reliable 1.6L and 1.8L engine family released in S America and other European countries. 

Direct injection meant better fuel control and less predetonation, so increased compression ratios, more efficient burn, and more power on 87...but is also much more sensitive to fuel quality since the injectors are so delicate. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Joins cruze talk . Goes for a long drive . Comes back riding a bicycle ! 

Scratching me head , I am in a better position now and have the abilities to proceed with most endeavers , we as humans may face with our preferred modes of transportation . 
I got tools and a working shop .. just shoot it OP you'll build up those leg muscles and save $$ ................


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