# Manual transmission qs



## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

I wanted to know when everybody is changing their transmission fluid in your manual cruzes?. I'm at 6300 miles now and I was going to change mine at 10000 miles. I didn't know when the best time would be to change it. I know that Chevrolet says to change it at 50,000 miles but they told me that the dealership will change it 30,000 miles. I haven't noticed much change in mine other than it is hard to shift in Reverse and 3rd gear. Opinions and tips anyone? Its much appreciated. Thanks

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

6500 miles. What felt normal to me turned out to be pretty notchy. Big difference going to Amsoil Synchromesh.

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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

So between now and ten thousand miles would be good time to change it?

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I will be changing the fluid every other year depending on the miles I put on it in n that 2 years.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

chevycruze2012 said:


> So between now and ten thousand miles would be good time to change it?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


The sooner, the better.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

I would change it out for a higher end fluid, then IMO unless you race or do lots of stop and go driving or some sort of other major adverse driving there is no problem with 40-50K on a manual transmission.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

NBrehm said:


> I would change it out for a higher end fluid, then IMO unless you race or do lots of stop and go driving or some sort of other major adverse driving there is no problem with 40-50K on a manual transmission.


I autocross in Texas temperature s during the summer months and I do 100% citysh driving my work is 2.6 miles from my house.

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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

In my experience the linkage requires a lot more attention for lubrication than the transmission for rough shifting. Starts at under the console cover and ends at the levers on top of the transaxle.

What else that is new to me with the Cruze, the clutch pedal has to be fully depressed before you can shift. Has some kind of lock in it, can still shift, but requires additional force unless the clutch is fully depressed.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> In my experience the linkage requires a lot more attention for lubrication than the transmission for rough shifting. Starts at under the console cover and ends at the levers on top of the transaxle.
> 
> What else that is new to me with the Cruze, the clutch pedal has to be fully depressed before you can shift. Has some kind of lock in it, can still shift, but requires additional force unless the clutch is fully depressed.


I can shift without the clutch if I rev match carefully enough. 

I'm not good enough at it to do this on a daily basis, however, as I don't want to ruin my synchros. 

You should consider some Amsoil Synchromesh in your own transmission. You'll be kicking yourself wondering why you didn't do it sooner.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

OP, +1 for sooner the better. The stock fluid is under filled in most cars, and it's terrible quality. 



NickD said:


> In my experience the linkage requires a lot more attention for lubrication than the transmission for rough shifting. Starts at under the console cover and ends at the levers on top of the transaxle.
> 
> What else that is new to me with the Cruze, the clutch pedal has to be fully depressed before you can shift. Has some kind of lock in it, can still shift, but requires additional force unless the clutch is fully depressed.


The stock fluid is what causes the notchy shifting and 2nd gear grind in these cars. Not that linkage can't be an issue, but for most people it's the fluid. 

It is too thin to begin with, and with the high temps these transmissions see, it degrades quickly. After 20K miles you might as well have water in the case. 

By 17K i couldn't bang gears anymore without it grinding. A simple fluid change and problem solved.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I can vouch it's the fluid I had the shifter assembly replaced first the the entire transmission replaced then I changed the fluid and it went away after the fluid changed.

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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Suppose I could try Amsoil, believe they are headquartered in Superior, WI, not to far from me. But in regards to where my MT is today, one of the best MT's I have ever driven going back to the British sports car days. Like an Austin Healy.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

NickD said:


> Suppose I could try Amsoil, believe they are headquartered in Superior, WI, not to far from me. But in regards to where my MT is today, one of the best MT's I have ever driven going back to the British sports car days. Like an Austin Healy.


Just try it. 

You'll be amazed by how much smoother it is.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

NickD said:


> Suppose I could try Amsoil, believe they are headquartered in Superior, WI, not to far from me. But in regards to where my MT is today, one of the best MT's I have ever driven going back to the British sports car days. Like an Austin Healy.


XtremeRevolution can give a good deal

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## Vetterin (Mar 27, 2011)

Why not just get it from ExtremeRevolution?
Note to self: TYPE FASTER!!!


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Big difference going to Amsoil SynchromeshQUOTE]
> 
> I can confirm, i was transmission.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> Suppose I could try Amsoil, believe they are headquartered in Superior, WI, not to far from me. But in regards to where my MT is today, one of the best MT's I have ever driven going back to the British sports car days. Like an Austin Healy.


Yes, they are indeed very close to you, but I also give people a 12% discount on it and you always have the option to pick it up from the warehouse. Plus, you need 3 quarts if you want to overfill a bit to compensate for the 5-6 shaft lubrication issue that the Holden/Vauxhall guys noticed with the same transmission overseas. They were losing shaft bearings and noted that over-filling by 1/2 a liter resolved the issue.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Yes, they are indeed very close to you, but I also give people a 12% discount on it and you always have the option to pick it up from the warehouse. Plus, you need 3 quarts if you want to overfill a bit to compensate for the 5-6 shaft lubrication issue that the Holden/Vauxhall guys noticed with the same transmission overseas. They were losing shaft bearings and noted that over-filling by 1/2 a liter resolved the issue.


I thought the owners manual called for two quarts?

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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

chevycruze2012 said:


> I thought the owners manual called for two quarts?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Could have gone totally blind or stupid. Only thing I can find in the owners manual on the manual transmission is that it should use GM Part No. 19259104, nothing on the change interval nor the capacity. Carquest sells GM Part No. 19259104, for around 25 bucks, but fail to say if this is for a one ounce bottle of a five gallon bucket.

Some guy on the oilguy claims to post a letter from GM stating to use Dex IV AT fluid, another guy posted don't use Dex VI/ Besides going blind and stupid, also brainwashed by GM only to use their recommended fluids.

Something about voiding that 100K mile PT warranty that I never used anyway. Could this because I stuck with recommended fluids?

Gee also noticed for the first time, the LS uses a timing belt, besides not having cruise control, that made me even happier that I didn't buy one of those. Says to change it every 97.5K miles. In my experience, that stupid tensioner and idler pulley with crappy bearings don't even last that long. Didn't check to see if this is a non-interference engine.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> Didn't check to see if this is a non-interference engine


Engines haven't been non-interference in a long, long time.



> Some guy on the oilguy claims to post a letter from GM stating to use Dex IV AT fluid, another guy posted don't use Dex VI/ Besides going blind and stupid, also brainwashed by GM only to use their recommended fluids.
> 
> Something about voiding that 100K mile PT warranty that I never used anyway. Could this because I stuck with recommended fluids?


Factory change intervals and factory specified lubricants are why every 4T65 blew up. The fluid couldn't handle the heat for the long intervals, especially with 200+ HP put through them.

The Cruze M32 looks to be the same way, and the 6T40 autos are burning up fluid pretty well too in not a whole lot of miles.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

NickD said:


> Could have gone totally blind or stupid. Only thing I can find in the owners manual on the manual transmission is that it should use GM Part No. 19259104, nothing on the change interval nor the capacity. Carquest sells GM Part No. 19259104, for around 25 bucks, but fail to say if this is for a one ounce bottle of a five gallon bucket.
> 
> Some guy on the oilguy claims to post a letter from GM stating to use Dex IV AT fluid, another guy posted don't use Dex VI/ Besides going blind and stupid, also brainwashed by GM only to use their recommended fluids.
> 
> ...


Yep, the 3100 engine and the tranny were a decent engine till GM said the entire car was good to gas and drive 100k miles before doing anything to compete with Ford and Toyotas maintenance. Similar to us running 87 on a turbo engine to sell this car but far far worse. Dexcool ate the LIM gaskets after 3 or so years and not being changed. 



XtremeRevolution said:


> I can shift without the clutch if I rev match carefully enough.
> 
> I'm not good enough at it to do this on a daily basis, however, as I don't want to ruin my synchros.
> 
> You should consider some Amsoil Synchromesh in your own transmission. You'll be kicking yourself wondering why you didn't do it sooner.


^This. My grinds were full floor clutch shifts. The 2 inch clutch shifts were better at low rpms and no clutch worked low rpms but didn't feel right. 


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Has to be some sort of linkage between the clutch and the transmission. Can feel quite a bit of resistance if trying to shift gears while slowly depressing the clutch. And do reach a point where you can hear gear grinding, this it the time to rapidly hit the clutch.

04 Cavalier was nothing like this, nor were the many other vehicles I have driven over the years with a manual transmission this way. Whether this assumed linkage is adjustable is also a good question. Haven't done any searches on this characteristic. Have any of you have?

Ha, the first thing I learned about the Cruze after driving that Cavalier for years, you can't back up when in sixth gear. But the Cruze did it right the right was. Cavalier was completely backwards in this respect.


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## Hazlitt777 (Nov 2, 2013)

I just checked my 2014 Cruze owner's manual. It calls for automatic transmission fluid to be changed every 45,000 in severe use conditions and says nothing at all about changing manual transmission fluid. I don't understand how one can conclude we need to change our manual transmission fluid every 10,000 miles or less?


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

NickD said:


> Has to be some sort of linkage between the clutch and the transmission. Can feel quite a bit of resistance if trying to shift gears while slowly depressing the clutch. And do reach a point where you can hear gear grinding, this it the time to rapidly hit the clutch.


The Cruze has shift cables, but they are not the problem when it comes to notchy shifting and grinding. 



Hazlitt777 said:


> I just checked my 2014 Cruze owner's manual. It calls for automatic transmission fluid to be changed every 45,000 in severe use conditions and says nothing at all about changing manual transmission fluid. I don't understand how one can conclude we need to change our manual transmission fluid every 10,000 miles or less?


You don't need to change it every 10K miles. You should change it the first time, as soon as possible. 

GM doesn't recommend changing the manual trans fluid....ever. According to them it is "lifetime" fluid, good for the life of the vehicle. This is an accountant's decision, not an engineer's decision. 

The factory is known for under-filling these transmissions. This is a problem for 2 reasons, the first is that this transmission generates a lot of heat, which breaks down the fluid very quickly. Less fluid, quicker breakdown. 

The second issue, is that the 5-6 shaft is towards the top of the assembly and is not well lubricated, leading to bearing failures. 

Now, as the stock fluid degrades to little more than water (which took 17K miles for me), the car will start grinding on shifts with the clutch fully on the floor. When this happened to my car i thought it was the clutch, so i tested clutch disengagement and it was working perfectly. Luckily, it was just fluid. My "lifetime" fluid was toast within a year. 

I would recommend that any MT cruze owner replace the factory fill trans fluid right off the showroom floor. It's garbage, and replacement is fundamental for preventative maintenance.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Engines haven't been non-interference in a long, long time.
> 
> 
> Factory change intervals and factory specified lubricants are why every 4T65 blew up. The fluid couldn't handle the heat for the long intervals, especially with 200+ HP put through them.
> ...


off topic -Putting a better trans cooler on will fix 99% of those issues


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

Hazlitt777 said:


> I just checked my 2014 Cruze owner's manual. It calls for automatic transmission fluid to be changed every 45,000 in severe use conditions and says nothing at all about changing manual transmission fluid. I don't understand how one can conclude we need to change our manual transmission fluid every 10,000 miles or less?


Cause you don't. You can, but IMO you are tossing money down the tubes.. I would do an auto every 15-20K and a manual every 40-50K


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Hazlitt777 said:


> I just checked my 2014 Cruze owner's manual. It calls for automatic transmission fluid to be changed every 45,000 in severe use conditions and says nothing at all about changing manual transmission fluid. I don't understand how one can conclude we need to change our manual transmission fluid every 10,000 miles or less?


As stated above, 10k is when you have harsh shifting abilities than normal character flaw on factory fill. Most manual trans through out all the car makers are "lifetime". Most Cars consider the rear pumpkin fluid lifetime as well. I'm still searching for the drain/ check/fill plugs on my Leggy rear end since man, auto, and spec b doesn't even share the same rear end characteristics. 


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## Hazlitt777 (Nov 2, 2013)

NBrehm said:


> Cause you don't. You can, but IMO you are tossing money down the tubes.. I would do an auto every 15-20K and a manual every 40-50K


This sounds more reasonable. Anybody want to debate this some more? I sure won't touch my stock fluid in just 10,000 miles without some real convincing.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Hazlitt777 said:


> This sounds more reasonable. Anybody want to debate this some more? I sure won't touch my stock fluid in just 10,000 miles without some real convincing.


Everyone's already told you that the stock fluid turns to crap after 10,000 miles. That is exactly when mine did as well - and it was horribly clunky all last winter. In the spring, when my car rolled over 10K and started grinding just about every time I shifted 1-2 or 2-3 at high RPM, it was time to change.

A GOOD FLUID (Amsoil) will only need to be changed at probably 40K intervals.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Hazlitt777 said:


> This sounds more reasonable. Anybody want to debate this some more? I sure won't touch my stock fluid in just 10,000 miles without some real convincing.


We are absolutely sure that your own car will tell you to change out that Gear Oil in the not to distant future , and yes I am vey perceptive !


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Seems like the MT and AT are getting mixed up, when they dumped the dipstick on the AT, I dumped the idea of getting an AT. Only way to do this job of checking the fluid level is to block the entire vehicle up and keep it level. Remove the top plug to learn if fluid was dripping in your face. Screw you GM.

With GM 4WD's regarding the differentials, that drain plug was removed a long time ago. Least with the rear, could remove the cover and make a heck of a mess. But the only way to change the fluid in the front differential, was to remove it and turn it upsidedown. With no means even to suck the old fluid out and you wonder why you have problems.

Limited slip differentials required periodic fluid changes, or just avoid making turns. Those clutch disks were constantly slipping around corners and would get red hot burning the fluid. And eliminating zerk fittings from the U-joints. Yeah lubricated for life, the life of a mosquito. 

Then hub bearings, also lubricated for life with no means to squeeze out the old grease and replace that with new. Don't even have to drive the darn thing, that grease gets rock hard with age. Have to figure a means to stop the clock. On some vehicles, a 1,200 buck job just for parts. 

Typical AT cooler is just a six inch long tube in the lower radiator tank that is now made of plastic. And question whether this is a cooler or a heater? With ETC controlled electric fans, to conserve on fuel, only switch them on when the the cooling system is ready to blow their cork. A heater is much more like it, coolant temperature would hit 230*F even before the fans would kick on.

Use to modify these with a 160*F mounted midway on the radiator to switch on the fans. This also saved thermal cycling of an aluminum head on a cast iron block that had a seven times expansion rate as the block with constant thermal cycling between 195 -235*F.


Is there a how to on changing the fluid on an MT? Apparently some of you guys have done this. Could look around, hey, still recovering from surgery, give an old guy a break.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

NickD said:


> Seems like the MT and AT are getting mixed up, when they dumped the dipstick on the AT, I dumped the idea of getting an AT. Only way to do this job of checking the fluid level is to block the entire vehicle up and keep it level. Remove the top plug to learn if fluid was dripping in your face. Screw you GM.
> 
> With GM 4WD's regarding the differentials, that drain plug was removed a long time ago. Least with the rear, could remove the cover and make a heck of a mess. But the only way to change the fluid in the front differential, was to remove it and turn it upsidedown. With no means even to suck the old fluid out and you wonder why you have problems.
> 
> ...


http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6627


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

Hazlitt777 said:


> This sounds more reasonable. Anybody want to debate this some more? I sure won't touch my stock fluid in just 10,000 miles without some real convincing.


LMAO. 

This is a community built on the principle of advice and the free flow of information for the mutual benefit of all members. 

We've all dealt with, and solved this problem. We have absolutely nothing to gain by recommending you change your MT fluid as soon as possible. 

I'm not going to debate you on it. I've already explained what happens, and why. You'll deal with it yourself soon enough.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Hoon said:


> LMAO.
> 
> This is a community built on the principle of advice and the free flow of information for the mutual benefit of all members.
> 
> ...


I am at the magical rights of passage 10K ish range. FTR newcomers, this fluid was confirmed to be the best option well before X became a dealer of it.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

Merc6 said:


> I am at the magical rights of passage 10K ish range. FTR newcomers, this fluid was confirmed to be the best option well before X became a dealer of it.


Mine started to get a little notchy at 10K, but it wasn't "bad" yet. By 17K i couldn't bang gears at high RPM without considerable grinding and objection from the trans.

That was when i changed the fluid, and the difference was amazing, i regretted not doing it MUCH sooner.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hazlitt777 said:


> This sounds more reasonable. Anybody want to debate this some more? I sure won't touch my stock fluid in just 10,000 miles without some real convincing.


Let's see here. You have a forum here on CruzeTalk.com full of people telling you you need to do this. 

You will find a forum full of people on SonicOwnersForum.com (same transmission in their sonics) that will tell you to do this. 

You will find a forum full of people on VXROnline.com (uk forum, same transmissions) that will tell you to do this. 

Not sure what kind of convincing you need. The stock fluid flat out sucks. It breaks down due to the high heat of these transmissions and fails to allow the synchros to function properly. Furthermore, it fails to protect the gears and bearings, and will result in premature failure. We're just trying to help you avoid that.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

NickD said:


> Could have gone totally blind or stupid. Only thing I can find in the owners manual on the manual transmission is that it should use GM Part No. 19259104, nothing on the change interval nor the capacity. Carquest sells GM Part No. 19259104, for around 25 bucks, but fail to say if this is for a one ounce bottle of a five gallon bucket.
> 
> Some guy on the oilguy claims to post a letter from GM stating to use Dex IV AT fluid, another guy posted don't use Dex VI/ Besides going blind and stupid, also brainwashed by GM only to use their recommended fluids.
> 
> ...


That was me who posted that GM stated to use Dex-VI in this transmission. I was skeptical, and it quickly got established that GM's call center did not know what they were talking about. 

I was the first to switch to Amsoil Synchromesh, and find out the good effects it has on our transmissions. I also saw good results by putting in 2.5 quarts.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah that was you Sciphi whom first did the analysis of the Gear Oil , Hah ...

And that is No Science phiction !

We must have to admit that GM Dropped the Ball from the start . First production Dates .
While these cruzens were riddled with flaws , that had to be diagnosed and repaired .
I am not trying to bad mouth this model vehicle , But We know Better through the hard work by the many members that do fall victim to these problems from time to time .
Nothing is perfect and the cruzen is far from it !

Now to change My Own ATF .. X ..I need some ATF Soon ...So If I knock on your Door Don't Shoot me Alright ..


Good Question Matt .


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Did look over that how to section, filler plug is actually an 8 mm, not a 5/16" for a tighter fit. See that PCM is directly in the way for a straight shot. Feel I would rather remove that than using a u-joint coupler.

A level plug is mentioned, so I assume the fill plug does not have a dip stick on it like my Honda's did. But even for that thing, had to get a rubber hose that would fit in that hole with a mating funnel, so I wouldn't pour fluid all over the top of the transaxle.

So do you just pour it in until it pours out that unshown level plug? Can you see that from above?

Ha, really don't know if you guys are trying to scare me to death on this issue, transmission with that GM crap in it, shifts perfectly smooth and effortless. Even my wife says so, and she has problems opening the flap of a new cereal box. Would you please open this for me, Honey.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

brian v said:


> Yeah that was you Sciphi whom first did the analysis of the Gear Oil , Hah ...
> 
> And that is No Science phiction !
> 
> ...


I don't remember what question I asked..what was it?

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> Did look over that how to section, filler plug is actually an 8 mm, not a 5/16" for a tighter fit. See that PCM is directly in the way for a straight shot. Feel I would rather remove that than using a u-joint coupler.
> 
> A level plug is mentioned, so I assume the fill plug does not have a dip stick on it like my Honda's did. But even for that thing, had to get a rubber hose that would fit in that hole with a mating funnel, so I wouldn't pour fluid all over the top of the transaxle.
> 
> ...


Actually, you pour it in and forget about the level plug. The Vauxhall guys noticed that the 5-6 shaft was not getting proper lubrication and the bearings were failing, so their solution was to overfill by 1/2 a quart. Can't do that if you're checking for the level. Sciphi and I have done this with great results. No issues to speak of. I think even 0.25 quarts overfilled would help, but either way I would recommend ordering 3 quarts.

If you think it shifts smoothly now, you need to drive a car with the Amsoil in it. Can you shift up with a pinky? I can, into any gear. 

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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

chevycruze2012 said:


> I don't remember what question I asked..what was it?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Is 10K fluid swapout the norm for the 6MT.... The rest is what we were saying all along. _*XR isn't just saying anything to sell magical tranny elixor*_, the fluids were selling _*before he became a vendor of it.*_ He just make it even cheaper than when the MT swap thread deemed it better than oem.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Never tried shifting my Cruze with my pinky, so tried it today on a 50 mile run. Okay when going from 2nd to 3rd, or from 3rd to 4th, but problems going from 4th to 5th. Had to cheat with my thumb to move that level to the right. Same with 5th to 6th, just couldn't hold it to the right with just my pinky. But could do it going from 5th to 4th.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

6 pages of thread summed up:

Change your OEM manual transmission fluid. Regardless of whatever mileage you're at. With 2.5 quarts of Amsoil Synchromesh. 

Slightly longer answer: If you're like most of us with temperatures plummeting and an aversion to working on your car in the cold unless absolutely necessary, buy the fluid now and change it in the spring. If you want to be an Internet legend (er, maybe not), swap it now before the snow starts flying to enjoy a smoother-shifting transmission all winter long.


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## Hazlitt777 (Nov 2, 2013)

I take it AMSoil is 90 weight? Or are their different varieties? Which weight should I use?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Hazlitt777 said:


> I take it AMSoil is 90 weight? Or are their different varieties? Which weight should I use?


Syncromesh is 75W-80 (5W-30).

Amsoil also has a 75W-90 that I'm going to try at some point.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

We've had a few people try the Amsoil 75W-90 and they liked it. I haven't received any comments regarding cold weather performance though. It is worth noting that other 90 weight fluids have not worked well, such as Royal Purple's 75W-90 and Redline MT90. Amsoil's 75W-90 has friction modifiers and additives specific to promoting smooth synchro and gear engagement. A standard gear oil designed only for transaxles is not recommended.


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