# Gelled fuel story



## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

'17 CTD 12.8Kmi

I filled the tank on the 22nd and headed off to the parents in law's for Christmas. I live in central Iowa, they in central Wisconsin. I parked the car for four days and tried to leave for home about 10AM on the 26th. Fate had other plans.
The car would turn over great but no start. Not even a rumble. Outside temp was -10F (-23C). Called On-Star to get help on the way. 
Apparently in rural central Wisconsin it's hard to find someone to tow you on a cold winter morning. Onstar had trouble finding a provider that would even put me on a wait list. First I got transferred over to the escalation team, then they called me back and tried to tell me maybe I could wait until tomorrow. I calmly explained that I needed to get home, even if I was delayed several hours, so however long the list add me to it. 
While waiting we pushed the car into the (unheated) garage and set up a couple hair dryers. I guessed it was gelled fuel so I put one on the fuel filter, and cranking it had taken a toll on the battery so I put one on the battery, along with putting a battery charger on it too. I finally got the call that OnStar had found a provider and he was on his way; ETA 30min. Persistence paid off.
After 30 minutes with the hair dryers going, I tried to start it again. This time each time I tried it would rumble to life runs for 2-5 seconds and die again. Over and over. Decided my efforts weren't going to be enough so I let them tow it to the nearest dealer (free) who could park it in a nice heated space. 
He put it on a battery charger also, and pointed a fan under the car to warm the filter and fuel tank as much as possible. After an hour still no luck. He wanted to change the fuel filter. I talked him out of that and got him to put a heat gun on the filter for a bit. A few minutes of that and it started and stayed running for good. My first stop was at a filling station to put in fresh fuel and some diesel 911 (anti gelling additive). Took off for home and have had no further issues. Bill at the dealer was ~$50. The technician agreed that he has no doubt that it was definitely gelled fuel. Total delay to my planned departure time was 4.5 hours.
Fuel sold in Iowa in late December should be winterized to colder than -10F. I've sent my story to the customer service email address for the fuel station that sold me that tank of fuel, and am waiting on their reply.
Credit to OnStar, with a just a little prodding to keep looking they found me a tow and got me taken care of in a timely manner in a location without a ton of resources available. 
Also credit to that dealer. He got me right in and took care of me immediately. I was afraid he'd park me out in the lot and try to tell me he couldn't do anything at all for at least 3 days.

What are your thoughts? Anything more I should have done? What are the lessons I need to take away from this?


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

This is why I put Diesel Kellen every time I fill the tank ,Anti Gel for the winter (white bottle) grey one in the warmer weather .
I've never have had to plug any of my diesel in and never had any fuel gel up on me . I do keep a bottle of the Diesel Kleen 911 on hand and a spare fuel filter and a fuel extractor for the filter so I can start on the Diesel Kleen.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I have been driving in cold weather similiar to yours, I have an extra fuel filter in my car just in case. Did the dealer drain any water out of the filter assembly? I would seriously consider changing the fuel filter. I was driving in minus 8 but my car had been a garage prior to the drive and it was 37 in there.

I try to get my diesel at the same stations I trust when possible.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I would have changed the fuel filter. No if's and's or but's. When a semi gels up. New filters go on. 

Buy fuel from places that sell to trucks in the winter time. They SHOULD be selling fuel that can handle extreme colds. As semi's can be anywhere in the country. 

Semi's don't generally need an additive but drivers like to use it anyways. It's a good thing to have if one fuels up in texas then parks in wyoming for the night. 

Cars could probably use it more as you guys can't pack the fuel a semi packs. 

Howe's is what i use. It's cheap. Cleans injectors and can actually boost mpg. 1 bottle is good for 250 gallons so 1 bottle would probably last you guys through the whole winter. $20 i think it was last time i bought it.


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

I don't think here in KY it'll ever get that cold, but Ive been running stanadyne performance formula since the first fill up. Drops fuel pour point 40 degrees and cold filter plug point 25 degrees. It's suppose to be below 0 in the coming days so it'll be tested for sure. I sure wish there was block heater


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

If you live in a climate that gets below freezing, run a fuel additive. No exceptions. It is not worth the hassle and the expense of having to have your car towed and the filter replaced when your fuel gels up because the fuel at the gas station you pumped from did not perform as advertised. It is your responsibility to run a cold flow additive throughout the winter. I cannot tell you how many times I've read about these issues in the last few years. Additives are relatively cheap and save you a lot of headache.


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If you live in a climate that gets below freezing, run a fuel additive. No exceptions. It is not worth the hassle and the expense of having to have your car towed and the filter replaced when your fuel gels up because the fuel at the gas station you pumped from did not perform as advertised. It is your responsibility to run a cold flow additive throughout the winter. I cannot tell you how many times I've read about these issues in the last few years. Additives are relatively cheap and save you a lot of headache.




Amen !!! I have said the same thing over and over again only to be told "oh that costs extra" .It's well worth the peace of mind .
I have always used an Additive and NEVER have had a fuel issue with fuel gelling or any thing . Also I've never have plugged my Diesels in no matter what the temp is .

Hope every one has a Happy and blessed New Year ..

Manny


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

It would of started fine if you didn't have so much water... Water is one of the many things stopping diesels from being more mainstream. It is a huge problem.

I reccomend straight number 2 (or blend) PLUS some demulsifier like Howes. That combination will not fail you until it is _really_ cold. How cold I won't really say just because it depends on so much, but definitely lower than -10F.

On the flip side avoid Emulsifiers like the plague. They kill pumps. The bonus to emulsifiers is they are much better at restoring a tank which is already frozen... Diesel 911 is one of these emulsifiers.

If you want something more exotic, standyne's winter additive is very good. Amsoil has their own version of it as well (afik stanadyne makes it but it's not the same as their own line). Plenty of options.


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> I would have changed the fuel filter. No if's and's or but's. When a semi gels up. New filters go on.
> 
> Buy fuel from places that sell to trucks in the winter time. They SHOULD be selling fuel that can handle extreme colds. As semi's can be anywhere in the country.
> 
> ...


Can you explain the rationale behind changing the filter? As I understand it, once you get the waxy particles melted and fuel flowing again, there should be no residue left behind. I'd understand if the filter was very easy to change and it was how you were getting fuel to flow again. For example adding treatment to the tank and adding treatment to the filter housing and putting in a new filter to get moving. But if you heat up the wax and melt it, what's the lasting harm?

It's a $52 part plus some labor to have it changed. I'm seriously not interested in trying to do it myself in a parking lot in filter clogging temperatures.


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> I have been driving in cold weather similiar to yours, I have an extra fuel filter in my car just in case. Did the dealer drain any water out of the filter assembly? I would seriously consider changing the fuel filter. I was driving in minus 8 but my car had been a garage prior to the drive and it was 37 in there.
> 
> I try to get my diesel at the same stations I trust when possible.


Do you really mean you keep a spare filter in your car so you can flop down on your back and swap it out in -10 weather if you need to? I am seriously not interested in that as a solution. Personal choice I guess. That's part of the reason I drive a new car is to avoid those types of roadside repairs. 

I thought I was buying fuel from a trusted source. I've been buying every tank of fuel I burn from this same station for years (short of long road trips). Never had issues with my TDI. Never had to use an additive. I guess that's over.


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

Snipesy said:


> It would of started fine if you didn't have so much water... Water is one of the many things stopping diesels from being more mainstream. It is a huge problem.
> 
> I reccomend straight number 2 (or blend) PLUS some demulsifier like Howes. That combination will not fail you until it is _really_ cold. How cold I won't really say just because it depends on so much, but definitely lower than -10F.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the recommendation. Can you explain a little more how water causes gelling, and why having it demulsified is better than emulsified? My understanding of fuel gelling is that the heavier fractions solidify as waxy particles that then clump together to clog filters and injectors. How does water play a role in that?
By my understanding having it emulsified would carry the water along with the fuel through the engine. No harm no foul. Having it demulsified would cause it to collect in the fuel filter housing where it would need drained more often and could freeze. 
Please don't interpret my questions as anything but a sincere desire to learn more. I'm a chemist, but not in the field of patroleum fuels. I really want to understand.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

KyleB said:


> Do you really mean you keep a spare filter in your car so you can flop down on your back and swap it out in -10 weather if you need to? I am seriously not interested in that as a solution. Personal choice I guess. That's part of the reason I drive a new car is to avoid those types of roadside repairs.
> 
> I thought I was buying fuel from a trusted source. I've been buying every tank of fuel I burn from this same station for years (short of long road trips). Never had issues with my TDI. Never had to use an additive. I guess that's over.


Oh grasshopper just because I keep a fuel filter in car doesn’t mean I am going to crawl under the car in subzero weather, what it DOES mean is if I gel up and get towed to a dealer or mechanic I have the necessary parts needed to get back on the road sooner. I don’t care where you buy fuel, diesel fuel can gel in really cold weather, it is suppose to be -15 where I live tomorrow, I don’t think my fuel will gel but if it does I am more prepared than you are. I am not interested in fixing it on the road even in warm weather.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Snipesy said:


> It would of started fine if you didn't have so much water... Water is one of the many things stopping diesels from being more mainstream. It is a huge problem.
> 
> I reccomend straight number 2 (or blend) PLUS some demulsifier like Howes. That combination will not fail you until it is _really_ cold. How cold I won't really say just because it depends on so much, but definitely lower than -10F.
> 
> ...


Howes actually performed very poorly in the last cold flow tests I saw. The standyne and AMSOIL options are much better. 

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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

KyleB said:


> Thank you for the recommendation. Can you explain a little more how water causes gelling, and why having it demulsified is better than emulsified? My understanding of fuel gelling is that the heavier fractions solidify as waxy particles that then clump together to clog filters and injectors. How does water play a role in that?
> By my understanding having it emulsified would carry the water along with the fuel through the engine. No harm no foul. Having it demulsified would cause it to collect in the fuel filter housing where it would need drained more often and could freeze.
> Please don't interpret my questions as anything but a sincere desire to learn more. I'm a chemist, but not in the field of patroleum fuels. I really want to understand.


 Water collects mostly while it's being stored and transported, and that's why it's so hard to control (most people just don't care).

When diesel gels that water will come out of the solution. If the tank was clear you'd see 2 layers. This will cause the fuel lines and other areas to freeze well before the diesel. Pretty simple really.

A demuslifier would of course make that happen quicker. But these additives are far from 100% demuslifiers. Their secondary properties help this in ways out of my head. We just want the water separator to do it's job. Honestly a lot of winter additives don't even have a traditional demuslifier in them.


An Emulsifier will make the water and diesel hold a nice solution for a very long time. Is this a good thing? Maybe. But these Bosch pumps and injectors hate water with a passion. If either of them fail it is most likely caused by water. Put simply using an emulsifier works fine until it doesn't.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

KyleB said:


> Do you really mean you keep a spare filter in your car so you can flop down on your back and swap it out in -10 weather if you need to? I am seriously not interested in that as a solution. Personal choice I guess. That's part of the reason I drive a new car is to avoid those types of roadside repairs.
> 
> I thought I was buying fuel from a trusted source. I've been buying every tank of fuel I burn from this same station for years (short of long road trips). Never had issues with my TDI. Never had to use an additive. I guess that's over.


Being from Arizona, admittedly I have zero experience with cold weather and diesels. 

The worst my Cummins and my TDI ever did was sit overnight in the low ’teens (F). But they both started the next morning, albeit a little slow cranking but they never had issues. Both vehicles spent several days in sub-freezing temps but were started and run each day without any problems.

I’m curious if this situation was caused because the CTD sat multiple days in sub-freezing temps?

Was the TDI ever exposed to the same conditions? Sounds like the fuel source was the same but the weather in the Midwest has been pretty COLD this year.

Due to the extreme cold, I wonder if starting the CTD everyday would’ve perhaps prevented the gelling process? Or can a fuel problem literally happen within hours and I’ve just been lucky?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Due to the extreme cold, I wonder if starting the CTD everyday would’ve perhaps prevented the gelling process? Or can a fuel problem literally happen within hours and I’ve just been lucky?[/QUOTE]

Starting it everyday and driving it may keep your battery more charged especially on an older one. I don’t think starting it everyday has anything to do with prevention of gelling. If you have water in your fuel it’s more likely to freeze. In colder climates you can freeze gasoline if water is present as well. Buying from a higher volume dealer should help. Seems most likely with the ctd someone buys fuel from a low volume dealer and it still has some summer fuel although that seems unlikely now. Or when the ctd has 800-1000 mile range on a tank of fuel, someone buys diesel further into the south and goes north and runs into a problem, I assume the fuel in the south is a different blend than it is in the northern states. In other words, Oklahoma fuel may be a different blend than Minnesota.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-.../101161-gms-advice-diesel-fuel-additives.html


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

KyleB said:


> Can you explain the rationale behind changing the filter? As I understand it, once you get the waxy particles melted and fuel flowing again, there should be no residue left behind. I'd understand if the filter was very easy to change and it was how you were getting fuel to flow again. For example adding treatment to the tank and adding treatment to the filter housing and putting in a new filter to get moving. But if you heat up the wax and melt it, what's the lasting harm?
> 
> It's a $52 part plus some labor to have it changed. I'm seriously not interested in trying to do it myself in a parking lot in filter clogging temperatures.


You'd be understanding it wrong. Not everything gets melted and cleaned out. And the stuff that DOES break free. Moves in to the fuel lines and injectors. Semi's have 1 or 2 fuel filters. They both get changed whenever a truck gels up. 

Sorry about your dillemma but if semi's do. Why wouldn't your car get done. If you don't like the idea. Stick with gas engines. I'd never own a deisel when it comes winter time.

If you read the posts. You'd see i'm not the only one recommending changing.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

A few winters back, we had ours gel when the ambient temp hit -16. We ended up getting some Diesel 911 and that re-liquefied the fuel. 

It's supposed to get down into the high-negative single digits this week, and perhaps low double digit negatives, so it'll be interesting to see. Prior to it gelling, it was dropping down into the negatives, but I think at most was about -6 - the car would be pissed off, but it would start. Then again, walking into work (1/4 mile walk outside) in those temps isn't exactly something I see as safe, so it might be best to work from home anyway...

How do the winter additives affect fuel economy?


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

Tonight the low is predicted to be -20F (-29C). This tank is not B20, is from another station, and is treated with diesel 911. We'll see tomorrow how I fare. 
Also, according to a Facebook friend, apparently everyone in town is out of diesel 911.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

KyleB said:


> Tonight the low is predicted to be -20F (-29C). This tank is not B20, is from another station, and is treated with diesel 911. We'll see tomorrow how I fare.
> Also, according to a Facebook friend, apparently everyone in town is out of diesel 911.


Do you have to start car tomorrow? I was at Walmart today here and there was some diesel 911 but not much.


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> Do you have to start car tomorrow? I was at Walmart today here and there was some diesel 911 but not much.


Yes. Headed to a hockey game tomorrow. Right now my tank is full and I added some 911 to it. Hopefully I'm good for a couple weeks until this ultra cold snap is over.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Good luck Kyle. You should be fine


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

I'd also recommend changing the filter. It's impossible to know for sure it's not partly clogged due to the situation you experienced. The owners manual mentions possible clogs going to or from B20, and the possibility of a filter needing an early change. Given the situation you experienced I would say it's a good idea. I believe you can find the Gen 2 filters for about $26 of you know where to look. Summit Racing I think had them at that price. Interestingly much cheaper than Gen 1 filters.

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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

Nope. No go today. 


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

KyleB said:


> Nope. No go today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Just won’t start? If you haven’t changed the fuel filter that’s what I would do. Chevrolet roadside assistance will tow it to a Chevrolet dealer for free.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

He's complaining about the price of the part. I doubt he's going pay the dealer. Course, if it's cold enough. I'd pay someone rather then do it myself.


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> Just won’t start? If you haven’t changed the fuel filter that’s what I would do. Chevrolet roadside assistance will tow it to a Chevrolet dealer for free.


Yep. I suppose that's the plan now. 


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

My 2006 vw TDI started with only the Diesel Kleen (White Bottle) 5oz added to the tank ,started in -19 degrees here in Kansas City ... and fired on the 3rd revolution . No cold start issues at all ... and I Never plug this car in ....


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

For the future, what would people think about using something like this?
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0163V2FQ6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AV8RIGUZAPHCQ&psc=1


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## danielfox118 (May 5, 2017)

For the record, my car sat in a lot at the Des Moines airport for several days in increasingly colder temperatures while I was enjoying Hawaii. It cranked over with basically no abnormal effort in -6 weather. And last night, it started just fine in -20 weather. 

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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

Mine's been doing fine in the very low double-digits. Will be around zero tomorrow morning, so we'll see how that goes. I don't expect any troubles. I never ran any additives in my TDI and it saw temps around zero or lower without any trouble.


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## powermax (Jun 3, 2017)

We had quite a few nights at temperatures below -10F and it started right away. I'm not sure if the Canadian diesel has more additives.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> Semi's don't generally need an additive but drivers like to use it anyways. It's a good thing to have if one fuels up in texas then parks in wyoming for the night.


no

you run low on fuel til you get to co or wy to get the proper fuel.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

KyleB said:


> For the future, what would people think about using something like this?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0163V2FQ6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AV8RIGUZAPHCQ&psc=1


ok, so your fuel in your filter is now warm

what aboot everywhere else in the fuel system?


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

Negative 4 outside and around 12 in my garage this morning. Showing zero degrees when I pulled in to work. Extra clatters and rattles, but no problem starting. My temperature gauge never hit normal operating temperature on my 52-mile commute. Heated seats and steering wheel FTW.

Interestingly, I still hit >60 MPG on my 25-mile average. Fuel economy is definitely impacted, but still pretty impressive.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

KyleB said:


> Nope. No go today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Here's my theory: your filter was partly plugged from the original incident, and now you are more susceptible to problems. 

Hopefully changing the filter and good fuel will be the end to your problems.

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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

When subzero conditions arrive a month early, most all fuel delivery services have to play catch-up and try to achieve the proper 'molality' of diesel #1 vs diesel #2 vs biodiesel vs additives. The mix is determined by calendar/averages. If a diesel tank is never emptied enough of summer fuel, some diesel vehicles are very subject to the dreaded GELLING in winter. Mistakes happen sometimes and can be inevitable when actual temperatures drop to subzero earlier in winter than usual. 
Usually it's up to individual fuel delivery driver or fuel-terminal employees to try to achieve the proper mix at the fuel station and it is sometimes effectively impossible for them to do it perfectly for every fuel station: some fuel stations will inevitably end up pumping diesel that is not winterized enough for where the drivers are headed. Like for the Texas-plates F350 powerstroke at our hotel in Rochester MN.
Some states such as MN and/or WI *require* that there be somewhere between B5 and B20 in the on-road diesel fuel. This results in "B4" at the pump in the winter, as explained to me by a knowledgeable fuel-delivery-driver related to me. 
Most of us drivers would probably prefer zero biodiesel in the tank for this winter, and maybe zero diesel #2. I would have been most comfortable in my week of travel with pure diesel #1, but KWIK TRIP's default mixture of #2 plus #1 plus the required bit of biodiesel plus "gold" additive worked perfectly every day between -16F and +6F. Cold-starts at those temps were awesome and always successful after the car automatically waited for glow-plug/warmup , whichn takes quite a few seconds after pushing the start button.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

eli said:


> When subzero conditions arrive a month early, most all fuel delivery services have to play catch-up and try to achieve the proper 'molality' of diesel #1 vs diesel #2 vs biodiesel vs additives. The mix is determined by calendar/averages. If a diesel tank is never emptied enough of summer fuel, some diesel vehicles are very subject to the dreaded GELLING in winter. Mistakes happen sometimes and can be inevitable when actual temperatures drop to subzero earlier in winter than usual.


Another reason why filling up where diesel turnover should be high is a good thing. I usually fill up at stations that have truck diesel pumps because I figure those stations move more diesel than others.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

A friend of mine was telling me that I-80 and I-35 truck stops in Iowa have been selling summer fuel year round for the last 20 years or so, but they usually have one pump labeled 'winter diesel' that's #1 or a mix of #1 and #2.

If he's right, then going to a truck stop and filling up at the truck island is the opposite of what you'd want to do.

Next time I'm in the neighborhood of my nearest Flying J I'll take a look at the pumps in the truck area and the car area.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

Taxman said:


> If he's right, then going to a truck stop and filling up at the truck island is the opposite of what you'd want to do.


Filling at the truck island is a pain. The nozzles are too big and flow too fast. I fill at stations that _have_ truck islands, but not at the truck islands themselves.


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## booty_malone (Jan 4, 2018)

I have driven diesels in Alaska at temps lower than -60F using Arctic #1 fuel without issue. In my personal car back then I would add diesel clean and a little two stroke oil to lube the injection pump. I have had diesel jell when using #2 when I should not have. 

Years ago driving the Alcan I filled up in Haines Junction heading north as the temps were around -40 and I asked if the diesel was #1 and they said sure. About 100 miles later as the temps dipped below -45F the engine would run but I was limited to about 10-15 mph. I finally made it to Beaver Creek near the Alaska border and added one gallon of unleaded regular to the about 10 gallons of diesel in the tank. After idling about 10 minutes I went down the road running fine and never had another issue the rest of the way with temps as low as -50F.

The bottom line is if you are driving in cold weather use #1 if you can with diesel clean and in an emergency 10% unleaded regular will thin jelled diesel if it is circulating.


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## jakenkaiser (May 17, 2017)

i personally think the cars have a safety precaution or "limp mode" something of that nature. my car was in -13F for 2 days, tried to start, cranked 3 seconds, started, sputtered black and grey smoke for 2 seconds, then shut off. then would crank and wouldnt start. pcm was not allowing fuel to the cylinders. there was no smoke or fumes coming from the exhaust. i reflashed the pcm with my autocal, and the thing fired up and ran perfectly with no issues. 400 miles since then, still no issues. still very cold out. 

just my 2 cents.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

KyleB said:


> For the future, what would people think about using something like this?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0163V2FQ6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AV8RIGUZAPHCQ&psc=1


The fuel filter housing includes a heater already. While a plug in heater likely would not hurt anything, it should not be required (also, I'm not so sure that will fit the Cruze filter housing).. the root of your problem appears to be bad fuel. As others have said, some additives might help (stanydyne makes one of the best, OptiLube is good as well).. I'd be changing that filter, if not already done.. The Gen 1 and the Gen 2 have built in fuel heaters in the filter housing.


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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

Cool story about the minus 65 , diesel #1, and improper #2 fuel fixed with unleaded added. I’ve heard of that idea on Freds TDI forum before but trying it sure would be a last resort if trapped in arctic wilderness highway with diesel cruze. 

Local chevy dealer had 5 gelled diesels towed in 2 weeks ago during the subzero spell. 
I bet there will be a bunch more soon. Multiply by all the GM dealers around new england or USA and there must have been hundreds of gelled vehicles. Thousands?


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Years ago we could thin diesel with gasoline. Back in the 1970s, Mercedes owners manuals suggested up to 30%. 

Common rail engines are a different story. For example, ANY gasoline will void the warranty on a VW.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Taxman said:


> Years ago we could thin diesel with gasoline. Back in the 1970s, Mercedes owners manuals suggested up to 30%.
> 
> Common rail engines are a different story. For example, ANY gasoline will void the warranty on a VW.


Yes, VW still maintains that their crappy HPFP was only failing due to stupid customers putting gas in.. when the NHTSA investigation proved that was bogus. Lubricity in the fuel is certainly a factor for all high pressure common rail engines. What I'd also be concerned with is the emmisions. What is the permissable sulphur in gasoline? There is a reason we have to use ultra low sulphur diesel. Start putting gasoline with who knows what level of sulphur and there will be problems.

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

eli said:


> Cool story about the minus 65 , diesel #1, and improper #2 fuel fixed with unleaded added. I’ve heard of that idea on Freds TDI forum before but trying it sure would be a last resort if trapped in arctic wilderness highway with diesel cruze.
> 
> Local chevy dealer had 5 gelled diesels towed in 2 weeks ago during the subzero spell.
> I bet there will be a bunch more soon. Multiply by all the GM dealers around new england or USA and there must have been hundreds of gelled vehicles. Thousands?
> ...


I'm not sure how many Diesels they are selling.. but it's sad this will hurt the reputation of a fine car due to crappy fuel from the pump. Clearly there is a problem with improper fuel out there and it's widespread. If our Canadian friends are not having issues like this and it's always cold in the winter there.. it provides pretty good insight on what the root of this problem actually is. GM should be looking to recover costs from the fuel stations selling the bad fuel.. I also doubt it's just the diesel Cruze having these problems.

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

No sooner do I make that last comment and now I'm reading of a Cummins truck in MN with gelled fuel.. so it's not just the Cruze, it's widespread fuel issues as suspected.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

According to the truckers forums. TA/Petro aren't treating the fuel this year. I fueled up at Loves and it was obvious it's still BIO fuel. 

While I understand the philosophy of why you'd all want to fuel up at places that go through fuel pretty quickly. I can't for the likes of me figure out why anyone would want to fuel at a truckstop unless absolutely necessary. Truckstops are $.30 to $.60 more then the local mom and pops.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> According to the truckers forums. TA/Petro aren't treating the fuel this year. I fueled up at Loves and it was obvious it's still BIO fuel.
> 
> While I understand the philosophy of why you'd all want to fuel up at places that go through fuel pretty quickly. I can't for the likes of me figure out why anyone would want to fuel at a truckstop unless absolutely necessary. Truckstops are $.30 to $.60 more then the local mom and pops.


I fill almost exclusively at Speedway and Marathon stations. There are some that have truck islands and some that don't. None of them are what I would consider a "truck stop." Given a choice, I always try to make it to one of the stations that has truck islands because I know they're going to move more fuel than the others. Prices are generally the same or within 5 or 10 cents of any other place. All of the fuel in my area comes from a local refinery and there's very little variation in pricing from one station to another.

Anecdotally, the best price for diesel out on the highway when I worked out of town was at a dirty truck stop with no automotive pumps. They had one small nozzle and I had to go inside to get the pump to start and pay.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

From the 2010 Korean-built Cruze workshop manual:

*Very Cold Weather Operation*

If the vehicle is driven in very cold temperatures and can not get a winterized Number 2-D that has been adapted to cold weather or a Number 1-D, use one gallon of kerosene for every 2 gallons of diesel fuel. Once you add kerosene, run the engine for several minutes to mix the fuels. Only add kerosene when the temperature falls below -18°C (0°F), because the fuel economy and lubricating qualities of kerosene is not as good as that of diesel fuel.


In cold weather , the fuel filter may become clogged (waxed). To unclog the filter, move the vehicle to a warm garage area and warm the filter to a temperature between 0-10°C (32-50°F). Replacing the filter is not necessary.


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

grs1961 said:


> From the 2010 Korean-built Cruze workshop manual:
> 
> *Very Cold Weather Operation*
> 
> ...


I've investigated using karosene. The owner's manual says you can use #1 diesel (karosene) in very cold temperatures. But as far as I can tell the most common grade and most highly refined you can get is K-1, and the sulfer content spec of K-1 is <400ppm. ULSD is <15ppm, and higher than that is supposed to damage your emissions system. I read an article that the New York transit authority was able to get custom refined #1 ULSD but it's just not sold on the market. At least not in the Midwest. Maybe they get some up in Canada?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Semi's don't generally need an additive but drivers like to use it anyways. It's a good thing to have if one fuels up in texas then parks in wyoming for the night.


A semi truck driver parking for a winter night in Wyoming leaves the engine running so it doesn't freeze up.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> A semi truck driver parking for a winter night in Wyoming leaves the engine running so it doesn't freeze up.


Don't most trucks come with APUs these days? At least ones with sleepers.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> A semi truck driver parking for a winter night in Wyoming leaves the engine running so it doesn't freeze up.


Only the smart ones leave it running. Most think they're good to -20 or whatever and therefore don't leave it running. 

I shut mine down at 15 degrees. Without even thinking about my last fuel up being in amarillo. Word in the truckers forums is that winter fuel is sold nationwide and that's not the case. 

My fuel didn't gell up enough to prevent it from running. But it did clog up the furnace after 10 hours. Which is what the truck had for heat. NO APU. Trucks usually come with furnaces these days.

My problem ended up being the fuel pump relay. The truck ran fine without the pump once it warmed up. But needed the pump for the cold temps to get engine warmed up.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Snipesy said:


> Don't most trucks come with APUs these days? At least ones with sleepers.


NO. They come with furnaces. Only the megas purchase APUs and I'm not sure if they're still doing that. They break down too much to justify the cost of purchase. Truck don't make any money if it's always in the shop fixing the apu.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> ok, so your fuel in your filter is now warm
> 
> what aboot everywhere else in the fuel system?


The rest of the fuel system is largely irrelevant to a certain extent.

When diesel fuel begins to cloud and gel, it's still a liquid that can be pumped through fuel lines. The wax clumping into larger flakes is really the problem when it reaches the fuel filter because it can clog the filter and make the rest of the liquid fuel unable to flow. So the goal of cold running in the winter is to have a heated fuel filter so that the fuel being pumped through that is warmed to be a complete liquid, be filtered, and then be pumped up the line toward the engine. The fuel can thicken a bit in the line to the engine and it really doesn't matter much because once the fuel reaches the fuel rail and injectors in the cylinder head, it's warmed back up to a liquid with waste engine heat.

For cold winter running you really want a fuel with additives enough to keep wax from clumping together too much. Once it reaches the fuel filter the heater there (in our cars) will keep the fuel liquid to be filtered. After that, it's fine and will be liquid when it goes through the injectors in a hot engine.


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