# H3LLON3ARTH'S System Build



## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

*My Subwoofer:*
*Death Row 15 Incriminator Audio 15" 1000W Death Row Series*










*My Amp:*
*2100W Class D MonoBlock BRZ Brutus Series **Purchased*










*

A Box Built By *XtremeRevolutions Himself.


Soon To Come After Everything Else is Bought.
*CTX65CS - Image Dynamics 6.5" Component Speaker System*










*CTX6M - Image Dynamics 6.5" CTX Series Midrange Speakers*


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Looking pretty good. that 15" is going to be intense 
How long you expect your build to take.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

tecollins1 said:


> Looking pretty good. that 15" is going to be intense
> How long you expect your build to take.


Well just ordered the alpines last night ordering the sub Monday after next, then two weeks after the sub ordering amp, and then box by xtreme ill pick up at lordstown.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Well just ordered the alpines last night ordering the sub Monday after next, then two weeks after the sub ordering amp, and then box by xtreme ill pick up at lordstown.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Are these Alpine drivers permanent or temporary? If you're looking for some strong midbass, you won't get that from these. Just being honest. You get what you pay for, and these are very cheap. They'll be louder than the stock speakers, but it's unlikely that they'll sound any better. They don't even have a proper crossover.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yea I figured that they were going to be crap I only paid $75 for front and rear so just temporary until I can find better ones priced resnable.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yea I figured that they were going to be crap I only paid $75 for front and rear so just temporary until I can find better ones priced resnable.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Sounds good. Don't forget to pick up brackets for them. 

Speaker Mounting Brackets Fits select 2005-up vehicles (for 5-1/4", 6-1/2", or 6-3/4" speakers) at Crutchfield.com


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

Holy amp! 2100watts, lol, geez.

Do post pics! I'd like to see the progressive work done.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

OnlyTaurus said:


> Holy amp! 2100watts, lol, geez.
> 
> Do post pics! I'd like to see the progressive work done.


I want this build to kick some serious ass, so I've actually been bouncing ideas for this box off of Matt Borgardt (formerly lead engineer for Image Dynamics). I'm pretty close to having a final design ready for this. It will be pretty incredible. Expect output levels north of 140db.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yea when I'm done ill be at Texas Heat Wave thia year I think I'm going to enter in the system contest. Do y'all think I need a new battery and if so optima or other brand.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yea when I'm done ill be at Texas Heat Wave thia year I think I'm going to enter in the system contest. Do y'all think I need a new battery and if so optima or other brand.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


It is very likely that you will need a new battery and 100% certain that you will need to upgrade your engine bay "big 3" wiring. 

Don't wait on that amplifier. It's last year's model and is starting to show up out of stock in many places, so that deal won't last long. Buy it up ASAP. 

You will be running this sub at 2 ohms on that amp and giving it 1400W RMS of power. You should expect dynamic peaks above 2500W and into 3000W. The challenge there has been designing a box that will not allow any port chuffing or turbulence at those very high peak outputs while also creating a box that is musical as well as powerful. The box design has been finalized. I will send you a PM with exact specs.


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## mrbrian125 (Nov 22, 2011)

Which part of the comp at the Texas heat wave are you considering? Spl or sound quality? They are VERY different. Either one I will be happy to help you with what you need to know before hand. 


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

I knew I liked this guy..........way to go out of the way to help a fellow audio enthusiast ..
Be cool stay cozy keep cruzen.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

mrbrian125 said:


> Which part of the comp at the Texas heat wave are you considering? Spl or sound quality? They are VERY different. Either one I will be happy to help you with what you need to know before hand.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I'm pretty sure ill be doing the street beat 1 class and spl I'm assuming first time one system entry I've been thwre bwfore with a mini truck.

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## mrbrian125 (Nov 22, 2011)

That's a good class. I'm just making sure. Usaci in sound quality and some of the higher level spl classes have some very specific rules that will make it stressful if you are not prepared. The competitions are a lot of fun no matter what organization that u compete in and can give u a lot of valuable feed back to get better!!! 


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

mrbrian125 said:


> That's a good class. I'm just making sure. Usaci in sound quality and some of the higher level spl classes have some very specific rules that will make it stressful if you are not prepared. The competitions are a lot of fun no matter what organization that u compete in and can give u a lot of valuable feed back to get better!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Well my first time and I hope they will have single speaker competition since that's all I want.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It is very likely that you will need a new battery and 100% certain that you will need to upgrade your engine bay "big 3" wiring.
> 
> Don't wait on that amplifier. It's last year's model and is starting to show up out of stock in many places, so that deal won't last long. Buy it up ASAP.
> 
> You will be running this sub at 2 ohms on that amp and giving it 1400W RMS of power. You should expect dynamic peaks above 2500W and into 3000W. The challenge there has been designing a box that will not allow any port chuffing or turbulence at those very high peak outputs while also creating a box that is musical as well as powerful. The box design has been finalized. I will send you a PM with exact specs.


Ill buy the amp Monday after next then and thanks on all your help

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

hey extreme are these easy to work with. if so and you think they will work i will order them later on down the road.

Car Speakers & Amplifiers | Ontario, CA


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

yes those are the ones that i have they are basically plug and play. 
The only thing extra you will need is brackets. (def recommend getting Andre's Baffles) 
These speakers have very good mid bass


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

so $169.99 is a good price then.


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

yeah i paid $160-165 for them


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It is very likely that you will need a new battery and 100% certain that you will need to upgrade your engine bay "big 3" wiring.


What do you mean big 3 wiring?

Batteries ideas?
Kinetik KHC1200 Car Batteries at Onlinecarstereo.com
Shuriken SK-BT60 Car Batteries at Onlinecarstereo.com
YELLOWTOP® High-Performance AGM Automotive Batteries :: OPTIMA® Batteries
http://jci_media.s3.amazonaws.com/4713/4583/5068/YELLOWTOP_Full_Specs_Sheet.pdf

should i leave the stock battery and hook an new one in line or something im new.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

nevermind found it.
How to upgrade the Big Three


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

yeah i am in the process of installing the big three now. 
I had some extra 4ga Knuknoceptz Kolossus power wire laying around.
so i bought some Copper terminals and soldered a set together.
My negative Battery terminal to chassis is done and installed. 
i just ordered 12' to finish it up. luckily their store is in Ohio and shipping will only take a day.


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

what gauge did you use and is it easy to do.


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

its 4 gauge you can use bigger if you want but that's what i had and 4 gauge is much cheaper by the foot than 0/1 gauge.
Copper terminal can be found at pep boys, autozone, or on ebay.


Edited***
KnuKonceptz Power Cables

Copper Terminal Connector


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

yeah you just need solder, propane or butane torch, and pliers or a vise to hold the terminal while you heat it and stuff the cable inside.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

For the battery, I would add a second in your trunk. This can be done after you complete the initial install. 

For the Big 3 wiring, instead of replacing the current wiring, I would simply add a second 4 gauge run. Be sure to use oxygen-free copper, and not copper-clad aluminum. We can talk about all of this when it comes time to install.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> For the battery, I would add a second in your trunk. This can be done after you complete the initial install.
> 
> For the Big 3 wiring, instead of replacing the current wiring, I would simply add a second 4 gauge run. Be sure to use oxygen-free copper, and not copper-clad aluminum. We can talk about all of this when it comes time to install.


yea im just getting an idea of what all i need so i know what to expect to spend over the next 5 months that's how long this project might take.


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> yea im just getting an idea of what all i need so i know what to expect to spend over the next 5 months that's how long this project might take.


Hey man its cool. Im still adding stuff and its been over 7 months since i started lol


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> yea im just getting an idea of what all i need so i know what to expect to spend over the next 5 months that's how long this project might take.


It took me a year to put together the pieces for my install. A good install takes time.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

well maybe i wont make it to heat wave this year then.


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## mrbrian125 (Nov 22, 2011)

There is no reason you can't make it to heat wave trust me for what you want to compete in you could do everything in a week if you wanted to and do it right. The only thing would be getting the money to purchase all of the equipment that you want. 


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

mrbrian125 said:


> There is no reason you can't make it to heat wave trust me for what you want to compete in you could do everything in a week if you wanted to and do it right. The only thing would be getting the money to purchase all of the equipment that you want.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


yea that's 5 months buying everything every two weeks.


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## mrbrian125 (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah you don't need that many things so there is plenty of time!!! 


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

just ordered amp about 20 min a go will be here on the 14th cant wait to get this installed


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Sweet! Do you know where your going to be mounting it to yet? 



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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

No I thought about on the back of my seat rear seat but then I wanna put it in the cavty alomg with a battery 

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Just remember yours is going to be bigger than mine so it will prob need to go on the double back seat.(one on the passenger side) 








I used self tapping screws with washers. and 1/2" rubber spacers. To keep the back of the amp from touching the seat and help the heat vent.















My big three link
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11523

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yea I paid 238 shipped to my door.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Well since I bougt cheap component speakers and wish not to use them I would like to sell them for cheaper than what I paid for them. Ill post picks later I would take $70 for 4- 6.5 inch alpines with a pair of tweeters.

Model numbers
SXE-1725s
SXE-1750s

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Amp is here its huge.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Amp is here its huge.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Now we're talking. :th_dblthumb2:


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm buying my big three Monday from Terry and then I'm sending xtreme some money so he can start my box.

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I'm buying my big three Monday from Terry and then I'm sending xtreme some money so he can start my box.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Sounds good you might be the first to get the 1/0 kit.
I'm expecting the kit in tomorrow with the terms. So I'll have the kit together by Monday and will ship as soon as I get the payment. 

I also completed Andre's kit today.



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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Well since I bougt cheap component speakers and wish not to use them I would like to sell them for cheaper than what I paid for them. Ill post picks later I would take $70 for 4- 6.5 inch alpines with a pair of tweeters.
> 
> Model numbers
> SXE-1725s
> ...


Whats the company's return policy?


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

i bet 30 days thanks i totally forgot that.


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## mabzmuzik (Jul 19, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing this come together. I have pieces just sitting around and I keep bugging Andrei. I need to get in gear and get my system completed. But in the mean time I can just enjoy your adventure :th_coolio:


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

mabzmuzik said:


> Looking forward to seeing this come together. I have pieces just sitting around and I keep bugging Andrei. I need to get in gear and get my system completed. But in the mean time I can just enjoy your adventure :th_coolio:


Yea I can't wait either it's affording the important parts before lordstown.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Well I have been pushed back two weeks man this sucks trying to buy this stuff and save up for lordstown while paying bills.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I know what that's like. Well, we're about 8 weeks from Lordstown, and I'll need 3 weeks for your box build. Just giving you the heads up.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I know what that's like. Well, we're about 8 weeks from Lordstown, and I'll need 3 weeks for your box build. Just giving you the heads up.


Yea I think I'm going to get your box before thw sub that way we don't have to mess with shipping


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yea I think I'm going to get your box before thw sub that way we don't have to mess with shipping
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


That will save me a lot of time and you a lot of money. Shipping something this large and heavy across the country would be in the $80 range.

I just thought of one important thing. Do you now have, or will you at some point plan on installing a rear strut tower brace?


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yea I was thinking around $100

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yea I was thinking around $100
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I edited my post it seems as you were responding. What about the strut tower brace?


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yes I am but I didn't want to make you re design the box I would only use the rear strut bar for Autocross but i bet it would be hard to design a box around the bar and then make the box removable.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yes I am but I didn't want to make you re design the box I would only use the rear strut bar for Autocross but i bet it would be hard to design a box around the bar and then make the box removable.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


It's not that hard actually. You just make it so that the box fits under the strut bar. With a 15" sub, it's totally doable, but the box would be a bit deeper than it would otherwise. I asked Justin (smurfstein) to measure the height of the bar for me from the floor, and I believe he said about 17". I would have otherwise made the box 18" tall, so that's really not a big deal at all. Can you get a measurement for me just to verify how much clearance you have underneath the bar?


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It's not that hard actually. You just make it so that the box fits under the strut bar. With a 15" sub, it's totally doable, but the box would be a bit deeper than it would otherwise. I asked Justin (smurfstein) to measure the height of the bar for me from the floor, and I believe he said about 17". I would have otherwise made the box 18" tall, so that's really not a big deal at all. Can you get a measurement for me just to verify how much clearance you have underneath the bar?


I don't have the bar yet.

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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

might a suggest a folded horn...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> might a suggest a folded horn...


Somehow I'm doubting that would fit in the trunk of his Cruze with at 15" sub. I'm referring also to one's ability to physically place it inside the trunk through the trunk opening.


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## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yes I am but I didn't want to make you re design the box I would only use the rear strut bar for Autocross but i bet it would be hard to design a box around the bar and then make the box removable.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I'm going to tell you now, once you get that bar installed, unless you keep plenty of fishing wire attached to the bolt on the passenger side to recover it, you're not uninstalling it without loosing that bolt. And then you have a lose bolt sitting in a hollow frame cavity in your Cruze.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Smurfenstein said:


> I'm going to tell you now, once you get that bar installed, unless you keep plenty of fishing wire attached to the bolt on the passenger side to recover it, you're not uninstalling it without loosing that bolt. And then you have a lose bolt sitting in a hollow frame cavity in your Cruze.


Oh yeaaa I totally forgot about that stupid crap yea I will only install once.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Well xtreme can start my box build whenever he get a chance to I sent hime some money last night to start can't wait to see progress pictures.

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm assuming that Andrei goes in the order by which he receives payment and will put you in the Queue unless he has some sort of a pre-arrangement with you.
This was his last update from April 1st:




XtremeRevolution said:


> Status update:
> 
> 
> *Completed:*
> ...


I'm interested in how this is going to work, I was hoping to have the enclosure right before the Lordstown meet but if Andrei is too busy I could settle for at least taking delivery in person at Ohio as well.
And instead of taking a refund on the shipping, I can just have Andrei help me install whatever is left to complete  lol


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Yea I know he's popular lol I can wait in no hurry.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yea I know he's popular lol I can wait in no hurry.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Well actually, you are in a bit of a hurry. Your box in particular will be larger than most, coming in at 4.1 cubic feet and will probably top 70 pounds. The idea was that I'd have enough time to get it completed before the Lordstown meet so I could just give it to you there so you wouldn't have to pay shipping. I'll do my best, but I'm out two weekends from now till Lordstown (visiting my cousin who got back from being deployed in Afghanistan, and I have a wedding to attend), so I basically have 3 weekends left. It's going to be a bit tough to squeeze your box in there, but I'll see what I can do.


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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Well actually, you are in a bit of a hurry. Your box in particular will be larger than most, coming in at 4.1 cubic feet and will probably top 70 pounds. The idea was that I'd have enough time to get it completed before the Lordstown meet so I could just give it to you there so you wouldn't have to pay shipping. I'll do my best, but I'm out two weekends from now till Lordstown (visiting my cousin who got back from being deployed in Afghanistan, and I have a wedding to attend), so I basically have 3 weekends left. It's going to be a bit tough to squeeze your box in there, but I'll see what I can do.


Actually, I count 2 weekends available if you are missing out on 2 of the weekends that are left.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

EcoDave said:


> Actually, I count 2 weekends available if you are missing out on 2 of the ones that are left.



I guess I forgot just how close we are to the date of the meet, lol.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Well actually, you are in a bit of a hurry. Your box in particular will be larger than most, coming in at 4.1 cubic feet and will probably top 70 pounds. The idea was that I'd have enough time to get it completed before the Lordstown meet so I could just give it to you there so you wouldn't have to pay shipping. I'll do my best, but I'm out two weekends from now till Lordstown (visiting my cousin who got back from being deployed in Afghanistan, and I have a wedding to attend), so I basically have 3 weekends left. It's going to be a bit tough to squeeze your box in there, but I'll see what I can do.


Money is just an object I don't want to rush you its my fault I took to long to send you money I can wait for perfection lol 

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Money is just an object I don't want to rush you its my fault I took to long to send you money I can wait for perfection lol
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Yeah but I think Andrei is also worried about the actual overall weight. Shipping services will sometimes drop packages, throw them, kick them, etc. 
With your box being as big and heavy.... The Harder it falls off the truck....


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> Yeah but I think Andrei is also worried about the actual overall weight. Shipping services will sometimes drop packages, throw them, kick them, etc.
> With your box being as big and heavy.... The Harder it falls off the truck....


Insurance baby

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

Insurance won't change the fact that all of his hard work and time went down the toilet should they happen to break it.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> Insurance won't change the fact that all of his hard work and time went down the toilet should they happen to break it.


Well I don't wanna rush him so its a delema I don't wanna piss someone off if I jump in line.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Money is just an object I don't want to rush you its my fault I took to long to send you money I can wait for perfection lol Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


 I'm glad you see it that way, because I don't like rushing my work. My attention to detail takes time, lol.


EcoDave said:


> Yeah but I think Andrei is also worried about the actual overall weight. Shipping services will sometimes drop packages, throw them, kick them, etc. With your box being as big and heavy.... The Harder it falls off the truck....


 Let me put it this way. When I box up these subs, I simply place them in a cardboard box, and if I need to fold over edges of the cardboard box, I will staple them into the sub box. Since the sub box is MDF and carpeted with pro audio fabric, you just yank the staples out and they don't leave any marks. The sub boxes themselves are built like tanks. They are heavily braced inside and the baffle is extra thick. I glue the panels together with Titebond II wood glue, which creates a bond that is stronger than the MDF itself. It is impossible to separate two panels after they've been clamped together with wood glue. The MDF will fail before the glue joint does. What I'm trying to say is, if a shipping company manages to damage one of these boxes, they deserve an award. I've shipped boxes up to 80 pounds before without issues. The only thing that will destroy one of my sub boxes is moisture. MDF absorbs moisture like you wouldn't believe, so keep your trunk leak-free. Humidity is fine, but don't let it get soaked for extended periods.


H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Insurance baby Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


 This too. I've never had to use it, but it's good peace of mind. It will be very clear that they abused the box if the sub is damaged in any way. Even a few dents the sub box won't show at all since the carpet is covering everything, and the carpet is very durable.


EcoDave said:


> Insurance won't change the fact that all of his hard work and time went down the toilet should they happen to break it.


 Yeah but it will compensate me and the buyer. I always over-shoot insurance by $100 so if I ever run into an issue, I can give the buyer some money for the inconvenience. I don't insure the boxes for the price I charge; I insure them for what they're worth. 


H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Well I don't wanna rush him so its a delema I don't wanna piss someone off if I jump in line. Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


 I'll see what I can do. Nosmonster's box is nearly done, so the only guy ahead of you is EcoDave. I may be able to finish one of those boxes by the time of the meet. The question is, would Dave mind waiting a while longer for his box so I can start on yours instead in hopes that I can finish it by the time of the meet.


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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

EDITED: Nevermind, I changed my mind to make it easier.
H3LL would have to agree to:


buy me a drink [L.I.T.]
take time to help me with getting some of my installation done. [Mounting/hooking up the Amps and front speakers, CLD Tiles]
Then we would have a deal And H3LL can skip his enclosure in front of mine. :th_coolio:


XR quoted $80 for shipping on your box, So I figure you would still come out on top if you agree.
Let's say the drink is $10 and about an hour or two of your time.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Ill buy your first drink and first dance sir and any help you need with your car.

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Ill buy your first drink and first dance sir and any help you need with your car.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Nah forget the dance, It's too much to ask. It was an unreasonable request. 
After some thought, 1 drink and help with the car is more than enough 

Deal is done, I'll patiently wait until after the meet to get my enclosure. ccasion14:


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm glad you see it that way, because I don't like rushing my work. My attention to detail takes time, lol. Let me put it this way. When I box up these subs, I simply place them in a cardboard box, and if I need to fold over edges of the cardboard box, I will staple them into the sub box. Since the sub box is MDF and carpeted with pro audio fabric, you just yank the staples out and they don't leave any marks. The sub boxes themselves are built like tanks. They are heavily braced inside and the baffle is extra thick. I glue the panels together with Titebond II wood glue, which creates a bond that is stronger than the MDF itself. It is impossible to separate two panels after they've been clamped together with wood glue. The MDF will fail before the glue joint does. What I'm trying to say is, if a shipping company manages to damage one of these boxes, they deserve an award. I've shipped boxes up to 80 pounds before without issues. The only thing that will destroy one of my sub boxes is moisture. MDF absorbs moisture like you wouldn't believe, so keep your trunk leak-free. Humidity is fine, but don't let it get soaked for extended periods. This too. I've never had to use it, but it's good peace of mind. It will be very clear that they abused the box if the sub is damaged in any way. Even a few dents the sub box won't show at all since the carpet is covering everything, and the carpet is very durable. Yeah but it will compensate me and the buyer. I always over-shoot insurance by $100 so if I ever run into an issue, I can give the buyer some money for the inconvenience. I don't insure the boxes for the price I charge; I insure them for what they're worth.  I'll see what I can do. Nosmonster's box is nearly done, so the only guy ahead of you is EcoDave. I may be able to finish one of those boxes by the time of the meet. The question is, would Dave mind waiting a while longer for his box so I can start on yours instead in hopes that I can finish it by the time of the meet.


I forgot to ask you did receive payment from me right.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I forgot to ask you did receive payment from me right.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Yep. Got it.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I dony remember if you decided on how the sub will face forward or backwards.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Andrei any update on my box sir

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

i have a question tho what size fuse should i use i cant find anything on the amp or in the paperwork or even on the internet.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KFX-PK0


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Andrei any update on my box sir
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I haven't yet started. I cleaned the garage today so I'll be able to start tomorrow. Should be done without an issue. 



H3LLON3ARTH said:


> i have a question tho what size fuse should i use i cant find anything on the amp or in the paperwork or even on the internet.
> 
> 0 GAUGE AMP POWER KIT



First of all, get the copper kit, not the CCA kit. Second, get a ~200A fuse. Really, it's just for short circuit protection and nothing else.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I haven't yet started. I cleaned the garage today so I'll be able to start tomorrow. Should be done without an issue.
> 
> Cool cool
> 
> ...


Yea I will so smaller than 200A fuse

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yea I will so smaller than 200A fuse
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I would grab the largest you can get.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would grab the largest you can get.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Ok

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Quite a few cuts this time...


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

What's the thickness of that baffle?
i see 4 layers but can't tell if its the same size sheets you used on my "tank box" lol


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Andrei you are the man i can not thank you enough for all the hard work you do for this amazing forum. Also thanks to Ecodave for allowing me to cut in front of him.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

tecollins1 said:


> What's the thickness of that baffle?
> i see 4 layers but can't tell if its the same size sheets you used on my "tank box" lol
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Straight from Andrei

Box is 30.5" wide, 17" tall, and 20" deep. 2" thick baffle. Two massive 4" flares ports.


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Ok so he used (4) 1/4" = 2"
He used (3) 3/4" = 2" 1/4 on mine. 
Was wondering 


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

tecollins1 said:


> Ok so he used (4) 1/4" = 2"
> He used (3) 3/4" = 2" 1/4 on mine.
> Was wondering
> 
> ...


4 x 1/2" for the baffle for a total of 2". Yours required far less material, lol. I needed a 1" thick flush mount as the sub is 7/8" thick and I would rather have it sunk in than sticking out. I would have gone thicker with the mounting plane on his, but I'm pushing it as it is with a 20" total depth and I didn't want to make it any deeper. Plus, there wouldn't be any benefit to it, lol. 

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Yeah my math was a lil off there haha



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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Test fit in the trunk...

















Yeah, there's less than half an inch of clearance in the trunk opening, and the carpet will add another 3/16". I'm glad I made a mock-up box with some scrap wood before building this. Doesn't take much to get it all the way into the car.









Got the holes cut out for the ports. 

















Got the bracing all done yesterday. 

































Today, I removed the clamps from the bracing...

















Now, this whole thing is going to be filled with 2 pounds of fiberglass insulation. The problem most people run into is that the fiberglass starts blowing out of the port, so I came up with a solution. 

Inner flare:









Spray some adhesive:









Place some window screen over it...









... and press the coupler over:









Problem solved. This is on the inside flare of the port, so you don't actually see the screen when looking at the box unless you shine a flashlight deep into the port. 

















Time to put the baffle on. I realized I didn't have enough 24" bar clamps, so I improvised in a few areas.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Dude that's awesome I can't wait to pit it in and get everything hooked up to bad I didn't have everything already bought.

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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

That box is intense. When's the monster get put into it?

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Dude that's awesome I can't wait to pit it in and get everything hooked up to bad I didn't have everything already bought.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Bring your sub anyways! We can hook it up to my car and test it out 
Attests 1200 watts worth @1ohm 


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

tecollins1 said:


> Bring your sub anyways! We can hook it up to my car and test it out
> Attests 1200 watts worth @1ohm
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I wish but I don't have the sub I bought the amp first

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

For those who won't get to see this monstrosity in person...

















All filled up with fiberglass


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Ok I'm hoping to have something going on thia project in the next two weeks lol. But what I'm planning is to hook the Pac harness, Amp and speaker up before I add all my tiles, foam and insulate. Just to do a comparison.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Here's my amp kit omg was it an ongoing job to try and find a decently priced 100%OFC with no aluminum.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DHNUR46/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&m=A130UJC6EIIOR0

And also some other goodies I'm getting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00559XXSW/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?ie=UTF8&m=A1NLNJ4Y2QP8Z

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004M4WHHE/ref=ox_sc_act_image_3?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005FYJANO/ref=ox_sc_act_image_4?ie=UTF8&m=AIIZF0ROPFSE5

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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

So when is all of that stuff going to be installed dude , or are you still wishing ?
I started my build in March . Took me 2 months to collect all of the necessary wiring and a reputable cross over installed in May . Sound is over the Top !





Be cool stay cozy keep cruzen and best wishes on some thing or the other that you decide next to do to that cruzen .


Or DANG DOG KISS A FROG .


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Hopefully soon within the next 2 weeks

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

So started gutting my interior rear seat wasn't that bad but has anyobe pulled the carpet up is that foam good enough to not need to put any Deadener on the floor or woukd y'all still recommend me doing it I was planning on cld tiles only.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Well bit the bullit and ordered everything I needed to install.

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## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

WOOOO! I can't wait for it to be finished! I'm looking forward to the final product sir!


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

trevor_geiger said:


> WOOOO! I can't wait for it to be finished! I'm looking forward to the final product sir!


Me too order everything to install subwoofer.

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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Your utilizing 0 guage that should be fun ! As far as sound deadening you should not have to go to extremes with those tiles . I am not triyng to tell you to how , just over doing the tiles is just a waist of money . As far as the insulation on the floor that is up to you how much you need to trim off .


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

brian v said:


> Your utilizing 0 guage that should be fun ! As far as sound deadening you should not have to go to extremes with those tiles . I am not triyng to tell you to how , just over doing the tiles is just a waist of money . As far as the insulation on the floor that is up to you how much you need to trim off .


Im order 40cld tiles for the entire car that's including the roof. But what I was askido you think the foam on the underside of the carpet would be good enough for Deadener or should I had aome more I think this is why I'm going to test without any cld tiles to see.

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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Vibrations along the floor should not be an issue . Trunk space can become quite rattly and should get deadening !


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

brian v said:


> Vibrations along the floor should not be an issue . Trunk space can become quite rattly and should get deadening !


Yea much appreciated brian glad you are contributing wanna come help install. Well my plan is to hook the subwoofer up and fing rattles thay are from loose stuff then after that cld tiles and foam.

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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> Well bit the bullit and ordered everything I needed to install.


 Nice! - I still have a few things to get for my system build - gotta show us some pictures as you build it!


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

blk88verde said:


> Nice! - I still have a few things to get for my system build - gotta show us some pictures as you build it!


Most definitely I will with my go pro

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

Biggest noise maker in the trunk when subs are bumping are the one way air vents located at the back behind the wheel wells, I just popped them out and put dynomat over the holes also did the hole trunk, under the carpet seems good enough but you could always go sound proof, I didn't do much sound proofing because I wanted to keep as much weight off as I could, my only problem with the hole setup is my rear view mirror drops straight down from the mirror to the first knuckle it rotates on.. Thinking about filling the knuckle up with something to make it permanent


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Biggest noise maker in the trunk when subs are bumping are the one way air vents located at the back behind the wheel wells, I just popped them out and put dynomat over the holes also did the hole trunk, under the carpet seems good enough but you could always go sound proof, I didn't do much sound proofing because I wanted to keep as much weight off as I could, my only problem with the hole setup is my rear view mirror drops straight down from the mirror to the first knuckle it rotates on.. Thinking about filling the knuckle up with something to make it permanent


The problem with those flaps there purpose is to helo close the doors there will be a vaccum thar wont allow one door to shut the fix is shut the door with a window down but I will fix those flaps thanks for reminding me

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Well everything is shipped. My pacharness will be here Wednesday and everything else will be here Friday Saturday ish

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

I don't think those flaps are so much for the doors as they are to just vent the car from front to rear, this is so it don't fog up as much when raining and what not, doors close fine with those flaps removed and holes covered completely, Ears also don't pop when doors are shut.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Update without pictures sorry well I'm a little flabbergasted right now can't figure this d a mn pac harness out and no picture help from the how to. And I've decided to also do the Bluetooth Pdim since I know were its at and how easy it is to get to. My subwoofer and amp kit should be here tomorrow both of them were tracked in FT. Worth Texas so big weekend planed.
And to make an addition my interior is halfway out thia weekend no interior so I can tape the 0 ga wire down and run all the wires under the carpet.
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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

Someone posted this picture a while back and I saved it for future reference:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q520/jasongoes2hell/DSC00239.jpg

Like I mentioned in my PM to you, the PAC comes with an additional piece of wires that you do not see in the Pic above, you can throw that away as we do not need it for our Cruzen.
(I'm talking about the small black connector with a bunch of short spliced wiring)

It's real simple once you take out your Radio, disconnect the factory wiring plug from behind the radio and then the T-Harness plugs right in between the disconnected parts.

Andrei advised to set the gains to about 75% or 3/4 from the max. Then Wrap it in Aluminum foil to prevent it from picking up any outside interference/noise/static.

Did you get a Four channel amp kit? The RCA cables plug right in even easier on the side that is labeled RCA output.
Mine were color coded and I wrote down the channels they were plugged into (LF,RF,RR,LR) but in the end it didn't matter because Andrei just plugged them right into the amp and found out which was which with the balance and fader, and corrected it accordingly.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> Someone posted this picture a while back and I saved it for future reference:
> http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q520/jasongoes2hell/DSC00239.jpg
> 
> Like I mentioned in my PM to you, the PAC comes with an additional piece of wires that you do not see in the Pic above, you can throw that away as we do not need it for our Cruzen.
> ...


Ohhh that's right I have to remove the radio lol duhh and were did you mount your pac harness I'm looking for a good place.


And no on the 4 channel amp right now I'm hooking up my subwoofer and mono amp at this time.

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

I tried both left side and right side of the radio, It's best to the right. When you take apart your dash, you will see there is a bunch of space around the top of the glove box. The wires will stretch just far enough to where you can sit on top of the glove box. 

I ran the RCA's down the middle passenger side, to the front right side of shifter, then around the front bottom (the "map" pocket panel comes off easily) of the passenger foot well under the carpet, then to the right side of the car and back under the paneling beneath the doors.

I have my 4 gauge power running on the left side, so that's why I ran the RCA's on the right.

Since you will have the same component set as me, you will want to wrap both crossovers as they do pick up engine, braking, and headlight noise.
Also, I recommend the -3 setting because even on that, I still end up lowering the treble quite a bit to keep the high frequencies in check, those Image Dynamic tweets can really play.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> I tried both left side and right side of the radio, It's best to the right. When you take apart your dash, you will see there is a bunch of space around the top of the glove box. The wires will stretch just far enough to where you can sit on top of the glove box.
> 
> I ran the RCA's down the middle passenger side, to the front right side of shifter, then around the front bottom (the "map" pocket panel comes off easily) of the passenger foot well under the carpet, then to the right side of the car and back under the paneling beneath the doors.
> 
> ...


I'm pulling my carpet to run all the wires underneath the carpet I wont have the crossover for a nother month I'm doin Bluetooth Pdim next week.

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

You are not using the crossovers that come with the CTX 6.5cs?
You are getting the miniDSP?


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> You are not using the crossovers that come with the CTX 6.5cs?
> You are getting the miniDSP?


Sorry I haven't purchased them yet but no I'm doing the CTX 6.5 cs I will order them in a month.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Subwoofer will be here today and im going to mount this bad boy with t-nuts and bolts as per Andrei recommended but my dang amp kit wont be here till tomorrow so thus weekend is goin to be party time lol but a week still before I can actually see what this will do so stoked.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Subwoofer as been delivered.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Need pictures!

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Need pictures!
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I'm taking pictures as I go along I'm waiting on a new modem in the mail so I will upload them while I'm at the shop on Saturday when im installing everything.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

So the subwoofer is finally home in the box thanks again to Andrei and Dave and tomorrow is a full days work pulling the rest of my car apart to put this gigantic amp kit in and then when I get home installing this heavy box.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

This is becoming teadious lol well the carpet didn't come all the way out but enough for ne to run the 0 ga wire from battery to trunk now werr did y'all ground the pac to.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Man I have to redo my ground to my amp it came apart so everything is in the trunk just going back to the shop to fox the ground.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Well everything is hooked up and rumbling quietly since I have to let the subwoofer break in man this will be a long 2 weeks. But I'm heading right now to go steal some wifi from Hastings lol so I can upload some pictures.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Well everything is hooked up and rumbling quietly since I have to let the subwoofer break in man this will be a long 2 weeks. But I'm heading right now to go steal some wifi from Hastings lol so I can upload some pictures.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


You can turn it up a decent amount, but dont start slamming it from the start. It needs a few heat cycles for the resin on the voice coil to cure, and the spider has to break in gradually. It is a 15" sub in a tank of a box with two large ports so it will be very loud even with little power.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You can turn it up a decent amount, but dont start slamming it from the start. It needs a few heat cycles for the resin on the voice coil to cure, and the spider has to break in gradually. It is a 15" sub in a tank of a box with two large ports so it will be very loud even with little power.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Yes it does sound nice. Ok since I cannot find that post or pm you sent me about the amp settings, 
These are what I have.
Level 9v-.2v
Phase 0°-180°
Bass eq 0-10dB
Sub sonic 15-35Hz
Low pass 35-250Hz

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Yes it does sound nice. Ok since I cannot find that post or pm you sent me about the amp settings,
> These are what I have.
> Level 9v-.2v
> Phase 0°-180°
> ...


Level: not sure where to set it. I've always just adjusted them where I felt they were the most appropriate by ear. 
Phase: start with 0 and listen to music at a low sub volume. Then switch it. Whichever gives you more bass, keep it. 
Bass EQ: 0
Subsonic: 15hz. If you find yourself bottoming out, raise it to 20hz. 
Low pass: 90hz for now. Play with the settings between 90 and 120hz. I'm not sure how well the sub does at higher frequencies so you'll need to play it by ear.

You can add or remove fiberglass from the box based on your listening preferences. The amount of fiberglass I put in there will produce a pretty clean sound, but you can remove some to increase your tuning peak for more SPL. Just keep in mind that the design factors in port noise and the capability of the two ports, and that removing fiberglass will start to cause port de-tuning and will actually be detrimental to your output and sound quality.

I can't wait to see some pictures.


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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

One thing I want to add, Just be careful with the Level adjust, don't go more than halfway on it. 
To set my gains properly, I bought an SMD DD-1 recently for $150 and it is as accurate as an O-Scope.

Also, try not to go above volume 21 as I have discovered that the factory head units begin to send a distorted signal at a volume of 22 and Higher.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> One thing I want to add, Just be careful with the Level adjust, don't go more than halfway on it.
> To set my gains properly, I bought an SMD DD-1 recently for $150 and it is as accurate as an O-Scope.
> 
> Also, try not to go above volume 21 as I have discovered that the factory head units begin to send a distorted signal at a volume of 22 and Higher.


Surprisingly enough I don't think its distorting but I'm going to see if there is an smd dd1 here in town unless not might buy it.
But I've kept it under 15 since insalled.
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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Does anyone know how to tighten the rear view mirror it rattles a little.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Let's hold off on coming to conclusions with regard to when the head unit starts clipping before we've determined what the correct gains on the PAC AA-GM44 should be. Based on Terry's voltage measurements and my own findings, I have a pretty good feeling that we've all been setting our PAC harness gains way too high.


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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

You are right, ha. So I guess it's up to me to undo my dash, set the pac gains all the way down, and then pop off a rear door panel. Then hook up the SMD DD1 to a rear speaker and find out what the real max volume of the head unit is. I'll see if I can do that today.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> You are right, ha. So I guess it's up to me to undo my dash, set the pac gains all the way down, and then pop off a rear door panel. Then hook up the SMD DD1 to a rear speaker and find out what the real max volume of the head unit is. I'll see if I can do that today.


Yes but my headunit is different then yours.

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Does anyone know how to tighten the rear view mirror it rattles a little.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I super glued the first knocked behind the rear view mirror no probs since just set it in a good spot mark it then take it off and glue it, there is 2 knuckles the one by the window don't move with subs. So if its glued a bit off you can still fine tune location with that knuckle, it works well for me


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

And to be honest putting the double din in is much less headache and the volume with no amp installed to speakers is immaculate compared to the stock head unit, I went with the alpine 530 it's the cheaper out of alpines I believe Panasonic makes the basics for alpine so you can get it for a cheap price, but if you go with a higher double din alpine you can get the plug and play 45w Rms amp for your speakers it's unreal for not having to run a big alternative amp. Here Is my setup


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> And to be honest putting the double din in is much less headache and the volume with no amp installed to speakers is immaculate compared to the stock head unit, I went with the alpine 530 it's the cheaper out of alpines I believe Panasonic makes the basics for alpine so you can get it for a cheap price, but if you go with a higher double din alpine you can get the plug and play 45w Rms amp for your speakers it's unreal for not having to run a big alternative amp. Here Is my setup
> View attachment 15658


I'm assuming you mean 45W RMS total, so 11W RMS per channel?

How much did you spend on factory integration modules?

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> And to be honest putting the double din in is much less headache and the volume with no amp installed to speakers is immaculate compared to the stock head unit, I went with the alpine 530 it's the cheaper out of alpines I believe Panasonic makes the basics for alpine so you can get it for a cheap price, but if you go with a higher double din alpine you can get the plug and play 45w Rms amp for your speakers it's unreal for not having to run a big alternative amp. Here Is my setup
> View attachment 15658


Does the top screen still have all its functions.

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Does the top screen still have all its functions.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Yes everything works with the steering control, plus you get added features that you don't get with the stock stereo is under the date you can write a name if you want to be displayed and when you turn the heat/cool knob it displays the degrees it will be blowing at you which I kinda like, you don't need a steering control module for use of the small little screen or the on star or bluetooth calling all the phone buttons and volume buttons will work with it. Just need the steering wheel controls module if you want to control the stereo


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Well I defihave to either upgrade the front battery or add a new battery to the trunk lights dim and a can feel my car jerk like uta going to die I watch the volts drop from 14.3 to 13.7

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Well I defihave to either upgrade the front battery or add a new battery to the trunk lights dim and a can feel my car jerk like uta going to die I watch the volts drop from 14.3 to 13.7
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I'd suggest upgrading the front one with a bigger guy. also the battery tray is only 2/3 of the way full. Lol
You upload a video yet? 


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

tecollins1 said:


> I'd suggest upgrading the front one with a bigger guy. also the battery tray is only 2/3 of the way full. Lol
> You upload a video yet?
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Yea I'm replacing the front one with interstate then a kenetic 1800 watt battery in trunk.and my internet us still down and I will more than likely post it tonight from a freinda phone and GoPro dosnt like bass.

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm assuming you mean 45W RMS total, so 11W RMS per channel?
> 
> How much did you spend on factory integration modules?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


No I mean 45w RMS to each channel, it already has 12 or 18w rms from my head unit to each speaker... So you get a nice sound if you add the add a amp behind your dash, and 200 bucks canadian I believe maybe less


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> No I mean 45w RMS to each channel, it already has 12 or 18w rms from my head unit to each speaker... So you get a nice sound if you add the add a amp behind your dash, and 200 bucks canadian I believe maybe less


I have never in my life seen a head unit that can produce more than 18W RMS, and those were $1000+ double din decks. You're fooling yourself if you think any head unit's power claims are real.

Actual benchmarked and clamp tested RMS ratings for aftermarket decks is usually in the 7-8W RMS range, with some double din units going up to ~12-13W, and a few rare units going up to 15-18W. 

Even for external amp ratings, consider a few things:

- Is it CEA certified?
- What level of distortion is present at that power level?
- What level of Harmonic distortion is present throughout?

Most tiny amps are class D, which some will argue sound fine, but I've heard enough of them to know they don't sound the same as Class AB. There's a reason my Boston Acoustics GT-40, which is rated for 55Wx4, is 14" long and 9" wide. 

If it's too good to be true, there's a compromise somewhere.

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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

Actually what I believe he is referring to isn't a terrible option for some.

It is a CEA certified 45x4watt Alpine amp with very small footprint.

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.


----------



## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

Sorry off topic and not meaning to thread jack but if you plan on getting a high output alt the only two companies I've been in contact with makes a 200 amp alt $400 and a 220 amp alt for $440.


----------



## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

trevor_geiger said:


> Sorry off topic and not meaning to thread jack but if you plan on getting a high output alt the only two companies I've been in contact with makes a 200 amp alt $400 and a 220 amp alt for $440.


It's ok kinda already has been.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstoner22 said:


> Actually what I believe he is referring to isn't a terrible option for some.
> 
> It is a CEA certified 45x4watt Alpine amp with very small footprint.
> 
> Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.


I knew he was referring to a smaller amp, and I maintain what I said with regard to size and sound quality. 

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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

Oh I fully agree. I use larger footprint A/B amps myself. But realistically, we are an extreme minority in car audio. 

Solutions like that listed have their merits for a big chunk of the population. Most people simply don't care about the differences in topology.


----------



## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

OP- what happened to the pics? also, did you go with your original choice of sub? (death row 15?)


----------



## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I knew he was referring to a smaller amp, and I maintain what I said with regard to size and sound quality.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Sorry it is 12 w rms x 4 my deck anyways and I was just trying to offer a good alternative of his stock stereo because that would sound way better then the stock head unit, but if he wants to wire up his speakers to an amp like me which is a 640wx4 RMS and my 1000\1 Rated at 900 RMS, but why go so hard extreme unless you plan on going into stereo comp, me i have no time for that, my dad on the other hand and all of his buddies well that's a different story... But all I way offering was a good speaker sound without having to run extra wire just a plug and play setup looks really close to stock except for the double din but a very clean instal I must say


----------



## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

jstoner22 said:


> OP- what happened to the pics? also, did you go with your original choice of sub? (death row 15?)


I'm still having issues with my internet and my laptop **** on me and my cellphone wont read my sd card so can't take pics with it lol I'm try to get my YouTube app to take a video I think it will. And yes I went wuth my original subwoofer and I recommend it to any who wants a nice hard hitting system I paid under $400 and its engendered and made in Alabama.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I fixed my laptop yay so I'm heading to Hastings to steal there WiFi

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## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

How soon until this is done?? I can't wait to see the videos of how the system sounds man! I'm excited!


----------



## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Sorry it is 12 w rms x 4 my deck anyways and I was just trying to offer a good alternative of his stock stereo because that would sound way better then the stock head unit, but if he wants to wire up his speakers to an amp like me which is a *640wx4 RMS* and my 1000\1 Rated at 900 RMS, but why go so hard extreme unless you plan on going into stereo comp, me i have no time for that, my dad on the other hand and all of his buddies well that's a different story... But all I way offering was a good speaker sound without having to run extra wire just a plug and play setup looks really close to stock except for the double din but a very clean instal I must say


640w x 4 = 2560w Are you sure?

I think you meant that you have a 640w (160w RMS x 4ch)


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

trevor_geiger said:


> How soon until this is done?? I can't wait to see the videos of how the system sounds man! I'm excited!


I'm doing multiple videos and I'm going to do a private showing to y'all with a couple of songs that will hit it will take a little bit. I'm still breaking them in there no were near turned up.

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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

Use this song at a medium volume a couple of dozen times to break your speakers in


----------



## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I'm doing multiple videos and I'm going to do a private showing to y'all with a couple of songs that will hit it will take a little bit. I'm still breaking them in there no were near turned up.
> 
> Sent from my Droid


Nice would def like to see your setup


----------



## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I'm doing multiple videos and I'm going to do a private showing to y'all with a couple of songs that will hit it will take a little bit. I'm still breaking them in there no were near turned up.
> 
> Sent from my Droid


Nice man I am excited!  have you heard of Decaf? He makes tons of songs that are basically made to push your system to its limits and get the most out of your system. You should check him out.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

trevor_geiger said:


> Nice man I am excited!  have you heard of Decaf? He makes tons of songs that are basically made to push your system to its limits and get the most out of your system. You should check him out.


Yea you mentioned it early I will check them out I downloaded a db Meter on my phone I wonder if will bee good.

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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Those apps arent that good 
1 because its not calibrated 
2 your mic can only pick up so much before it gets maxed out 


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

EcoDave said:


> Use this song at a medium volume a couple of dozen times to break your speakers in


I will download that today I'm using a lot of Psyph Morrison

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Here is a video isnt the best quality I shot it with my old Sony Cybershot camera GoPro dosnt like bass.


----------



## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Video is set to private



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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

Couldn't watch the video. It just states that it is private.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Try it now

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Now I'm going to try different cameras also it going to be a little bit till the quality is almost bearable to watch.

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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

video works fine now.

i want to see the sub though!

now you gotta get to work on fixing that trunk noise. 

looks like its hitting hard though (Y)


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

jstoner22 said:


> video works fine now.
> 
> i want to see the sub though!
> 
> ...


What would you recomend I was thinking adding some foam and tighting the nuts that hold the trunk down.

what kind of video do yall wanna see let me know I will make them.


----------



## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

The sub doing its thing.

Add more weight to the trunk (CLD)
Put the seats down as well.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

tecollins1 said:


> The sub doing its thing.
> 
> Add more weight to the trunk (CLD)
> Put the seats down as well.
> ...


Yea that's my next project I wanted to show the difference between no CLD tiles and then what it will sound like after.

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## Ahiru (Mar 4, 2013)

Looks like your Hitt hard. My 2 cents
On the trunk rattle... 1. The license plate, take it off run down to the hardware store and buy some weather stripping, and the foam strip kind. Put it on the edges of the plate a few in the middle, no more rattle or scratches on your trunk lid. 2. You can tighten the trunk lock down to hold the lid tighter. It's a simple slide the ring up and down. 
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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Ahiru said:


> Looks like your Hitt hard. My 2 cents
> On the trunk rattle... 1. The license plate, take it off run down to the hardware store and buy some weather stripping, and the foam strip kind. Put it on the edges of the plate a few in the middle, no more rattle or scratches on your trunk lid. 2. You can tighten the trunk lock down to hold the lid tighter. It's a simple slide the ring up and down.
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


No license plate rattle that's all trunk I 3m double sided sticky taped the entire plate to the trunk but I will take all the advice I can get I will be chasing rattle for life.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Haha, nice! I see that sub and box is creating some serious volume, and you have a lot of clean power to keep it going. I can't wait to see some shots of the sub in the box. 

I didn't expect it to get loud enough to flex your windshield. That's serious power right there. Did you end up taking any fiberglass out?

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Haha, nice! I see that sub and box is creating some serious volume, and you have a lot of clean power to keep it going. I can't wait to see some shots of the sub in the box.
> 
> I didn't expect it to get loud enough to flex your windshield. That's serious power right there. Did you end up taking any fiberglass out?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Nothing has been taken out and I'm only running 12 ga wire from amp to sub all I had.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Nothing has been taken out and I'm only running 12 ga wire from amp to sub all I had.
> 
> Sent from my Droid


Ah OK. Yeah that's fine. 

How heavy is the box with the sub?

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Ah OK. Yeah that's fine.
> 
> How heavy is the box with the sub?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I plan on running at least 8 ga speaker wire.

I had a lil trouble but its about a 37 pound speaker. I'm still tuning by ear to what I want it to sound like.

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

Have you taken out the one way vent flaps behind your rear wheel wells in the trunk area that will stop a lot of noise but cover them up with something I just Dynamited every little hole in my trunk area but trunk lid still has a little vibration I'm going to try and tighten it down more


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Have you taken out the one way vent flaps behind your rear wheel wells in the trunk area that will stop a lot of noise but cover them up with something I just Dynamited every little hole in my trunk area but trunk lid still has a little vibration I'm going to try and tighten it down more


I'm going to CLD tile the trunk and I'm going to had some other stuff but I'm going to leave the flaps alone. I have to make a new floor.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I plan on running at least 8 ga speaker wire.
> 
> I had a lil trouble but its about a 37 pound speaker. I'm still tuning by ear to what I want it to sound like.
> 
> Sent from my Droid


Wow! That is easily a 100 pound box, haha. Awesome.


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

Lmao today with it being pretty damp not having those flaps in the car anymore caused my door not to shut but after I drive to work I had no problems... Does anyone know how else to stop them from flapping and or another route to have them flaps replaced lol.. Almost popped my ears FFS, it's weird must be enough air space when no water build up all around the car first time this has happened in 3 months


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## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

Can you post a picture of where you installed your ground in your trunk for your amp? Thanks, again loved the video.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

trevor_geiger said:


> Can you post a picture of where you installed your ground in your trunk for your amp? Thanks, again loved the video.


Yea I will 

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## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

Okay thank you sir.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Update:
I blew the voicecoil on my Incriminator Audio Death Row 15 and that was with the amp not even half way up so I called and left them a message about warranty work.
I wasn't even half way on the bass nob in that video I took I heard no pop or anything before no.more bump.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Update:
> I blew the voicecoil on my Incriminator Audio Death Row 15 and that was with the amp not even half way up so I called and left them a message about warranty work.
> I wasn't even half way on the bass nob in that video I took I heard no pop or anything before no.more bump.
> 
> ...


The bass knob alone doesn't determine how loud it is. Keep in mind you have your input signal as well. If that was too high, then you'd reach max power much sooner. 

Need to be careful with ported subs because the port controls the excursion, which reduces the sub's ability to vent heat and allows you to drive a LOT more power into it without reaching mechanical limits (bottoming out). Basically, you won't hear the bang; you'll just smell the voice coil burning. 

Sucks that it happened. I hope they replace the cone for you; that's not a cheap sub.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The bass knob alone doesn't determine how loud it is. Keep in mind you have your input signal as well. If that was too high, then you'd reach max power much sooner.
> 
> Need to be careful with ported subs because the port controls the excursion, which reduces the sub's ability to vent heat and allows you to drive a LOT more power into it without reaching mechanical limits (bottoming out). Basically, you won't hear the bang; you'll just smell the voice coil burning.
> Sucks that it happened. I hope they replace the cone for you; that's not a cheap sub.


Lesson learned I thought I smelled something didn't know lol.
Warranty will replace entire subwoofer they are professional competition subwoofers.

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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> Warranty will replace entire subwoofer they are professional competition subwoofers.


 Sorry to hear about your blown Sub. That thing must have been playing loud.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

blk88verde said:


> Sorry to hear about your blown Sub. That thing must have been playing loud.


It made my windows flex lol thats why there warrantied. 

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Subwoofer is being replaced l.

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

A little voice coil smell isn't to bad well it is but that's where I like to listen to my subs lol, and hey I've had them since 2003 and from 2006 to 2008 they were played hard all day long, I mean all day


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

In this case it was bad i blew a $400 speaker shouldn't have happened.

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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> Subwoofer is being replaced l.


 Glad they took care of you.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

blk88verde said:


> Glad they took care of you.


Me too.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

CyclonicWrath said:


> A little voice coil smell isn't to bad well it is but that's where I like to listen to my subs lol, and hey I've had them since 2003 and from 2006 to 2008 they were played hard all day long, I mean all day


How many watts RMS are you pushing your speaker.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> A little voice coil smell isn't to bad well it is but that's where I like to listen to my subs lol, and hey I've had them since 2003 and from 2006 to 2008 they were played hard all day long, I mean all day


If you are smelling voice coil, you need to back off on the gain or bass knob and reconsider if the size or number of subs is enough for your SPL preferences. Or, you're clipping the heck out of your amp. 

Chris, before you put a replacement sub in, I would highly recommend getting an secondary audio battery or two. You're pulling a lot of power through a 1 ohm load and the stock electrical, even with upgraded big 3 wiring, isn't going to cut it. 
You are about 50% efficient at 1 ohm, which means to go full tilt, your amp would pull 4,200W, or 291A. You're playing with the big boys now. 

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If you are smelling voice coil, you need to back off on the gain or bass knob and reconsider if the size or number of subs is enough for your SPL preferences. Or, you're clipping the heck out of your amp.
> 
> Chris, before you put a replacement sub in, I would highly recommend getting an secondary audio battery or two. You're pulling a lot of power through a 1 ohm load and the stock electrical, even with upgraded big 3 wiring, isn't going to cut it.
> You are about 50% efficient at 1 ohm, which means to go full tilt, your amp would pull 4,200W, or 291A. You're playing with the big boys now.
> ...


Yea I'm putting a bigger battery in before I replace my sub.

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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Going with a Optima Red Top SC34R.

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If you are smelling voice coil, you need to back off on the gain or bass knob and reconsider if the size or number of subs is enough for your SPL preferences. Or, you're clipping the heck out of your amp.
> 
> Chris, before you put a replacement sub in, I would highly recommend getting an secondary audio battery or two. You're pulling a lot of power through a 1 ohm load and the stock electrical, even with upgraded big 3 wiring, isn't going to cut it.
> You are about 50% efficient at 1 ohm, which means to go full tilt, your amp would pull 4,200W, or 291A. You're playing with the big boys now.
> ...


I'm running them at 2 ohms and I know it's not good i don't really smell it heavy just a small hint if the windows are up for a long period of time I'm waiting for them to go, I am looking at a 10" w7 and a 1000/1 JL amp to make it
Move a little, I know I don't need it I've just always wanted one and I like to throw money at things. There's always crickets in my pockets... I would go with another battery when I do that instal and I still have yet to do the 3 wire upgrade might do it this week or next since I'm off for 2 weeks, but I don't get any dimming or power loss and my gauges don't let me run below 12.5 volts anyways, plus everything's still under warranty


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> I'm running them at 2 ohms and I know it's not good i don't really smell it heavy just a small hint if the windows are up for a long period of time I'm waiting for them to go, I am looking at a 10" w7 and a 1000/1 JL amp to make it
> Move a little, I know I don't need it I've just always wanted one and I like to throw money at things. There's always crickets in my pockets... I would go with another battery when I do that instal and I still have yet to do the 3 wire upgrade might do it this week or next since I'm off for 2 weeks, but I don't get any dimming or power loss and my gauges don't let me run below 12.5 volts anyways, plus everything's still under warranty


I can tell you without any shred of doubt that the IDMAX is worlds better than a W7. About the same output, but the IDMAX has a much, much wider passband and a lower moving mass. There's also a new 15" version coming out this year. JL is mostly marketing for the masses. If you want your money's worth, get an ID sub. 

Frankly though, for the price of either the ID or the JL, you can get two IDQ10s or 12s that would be even louder and even more musical.

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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I can tell you without any shred of doubt that the IDMAX is worlds better than a W7. About the same output, but the IDMAX has a much, much wider passband and a lower moving mass. There's also a new 15" version coming out this year. JL is mostly marketing for the masses. If you want your money's worth, get an ID sub.
> 
> Frankly though, for the price of either the ID or the JL, you can get two IDQ10s or 12s that would be even louder and even more musical.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I will look into it


----------



## Stevear22 (Mar 6, 2013)

I think I'm going to do something different with my stereo. Not till after I visit the ENT specialist and find out why my ears are already messed haha. I want to get rid of my 15" Clarion and get maybe 2-3 10's. I mean the 15 pounds hard and all have no complaints, but for the music I listen to, I almost feel like its to big to move at the speed of the music. I listen to a lot of hardcore music (like August burn red If anyone knows who they are lol) and the double bass in a lot of the songs is like a frigin gun 


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

2 10" equal the same as a 15 I do believe, you could just buy a really powerful 10" sub put a lot of watts into it in an enclosed box would be my preference for that type of music you feel it more then it wrecks your ears, should feel like your being punched in the chest rather then a dirty tingle in your brain


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## Stevear22 (Mar 6, 2013)

CyclonicWrath said:


> 2 10" equal the same as a 15 I do believe, you could just buy a really powerful 10" sub put a lot of watts into it in an enclosed box would be my preference for that type of music you feel it more then it wrecks your ears, should feel like your being punched in the chest rather then a dirty tingle in your brain


Yeah, I remember a buddy had 3 10" infinity Kapas before, and they had a **** of a punch. I don't want to loose what I've got I just want to make it better you know? As dangerous as it is, I think it's pretty cool that I can't crank my stereo in the rain because my wipers don't properly clean the windshield haha


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

Haha I got the same problem my rear window flex is unreal too


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> 2 10" equal the same as a 15 I do believe, you could just buy a really powerful 10" sub put a lot of watts into it in an enclosed box would be my preference for that type of music you feel it more then it wrecks your ears, should feel like your being punched in the chest rather then a dirty tingle in your brain


It's always a function of cone area. Everything is a function of cone area. Some manufacturers list it as piston area. When you have the option, you *always *want more cone area over more excursion. This is because the higher cone area will offer better efficiency and typically lower distortion. This is why I run two 18" subs. Let me outline it for you. 

The highest cone area 10" sub I know of is the Image Dynamics IDQ10 V3. This has a cone area of 399 square cm. Typical 10" subs have a cone area of 330 square cm. Here's the breakdown for typical subs in square cm:

8": 220
10": 330
12": 480
15": 810
18": 1300

Having considered that, two typical 18" subs are only 81% of the cone area of a typical 15" sub. My two 18" subs *each *have 1340 square CM of cone area, which is equivalent to over eight 10" subs. Since they are pro audio subs, excursion is limited, but they make up in cone area what they lack in excursion, and at the end of the day, you can ask anyone who has heard them; there isn't anything else like it. 

Rule #1 when you want accurate, powerful bass is that *cone area is king*. Driving a lot of power to a single high-excursion sub will not give you the same results as driving that same amount of power to two subs. The only purpose of very high excursion and high powered subs such as the JL W7 and the IDMax is to have the biggest bang in the smallest enclosure size. the IDMax10 has 4" of mechanical excursion and is recommended in a 0.9 cubic foot gross box. They are also useful if you have an unlimited budget and want the best bang for the space you have available. 

However, if your budget is not unlimited, and you aren't extremely concerned with space, then two 10" IDQ drivers will always win over a single 10" IDMax or 12" IDMax. Always.


----------



## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It's always a function of cone area. Everything is a function of cone area. Some manufacturers list it as piston area. When you have the option, you *always *want more cone area over more excursion. This is because the higher cone area will offer better efficiency and typically lower distortion. This is why I run two 18" subs. Let me outline it for you.
> 
> The highest cone area 10" sub I know of is the Image Dynamics IDQ10 V3. This has a cone area of 399 square cm. Typical 10" subs have a cone area of 330 square cm. Here's the breakdown for typical subs in square cm:
> 
> ...


But is not having an 18" give you different frequencies? Then the 10 will hit


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Stevear22 said:


> I think I'm going to do something different with my stereo. Not till after I visit the ENT specialist and find out why my ears are already messed haha. I want to get rid of my 15" Clarion and get maybe 2-3 10's. I mean the 15 pounds hard and all have no complaints, but for the music I listen to, I almost feel like its to big to move at the speed of the music. I listen to a lot of hardcore music (like August burn red If anyone knows who they are lol) and the double bass in a lot of the songs is like a frigin gun
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


There's no such thing as too big to move at the speed of music. It's all a matter of motor strength and moving mass. The cone, voice coil, former, and dust cap are all factored into the moving mass calculation. High SPL subs that are designed to be abused tend to have excessively thick wiring in the voice coil, and excessively thick piston material that all drive up the weight. More weight without more motor strength results in a crappy sounding sub. 

A typical 12" sub will have a moving mass of 200-240g. A _great _12" sub like the IDQ12 will have a moving mass of 160g. A high SPL 12" sub like an Orion HCCA will have a moving mass of 386 grams. I can assure you the motor is not big enough to compensate for such a heavy moving mass, but it will dissipate lots of heat for high SPL applications. 

Now to put that into perspective, one of my 18" subs has as much cone area as 2.8 12" subs. Just contemplate that for a second. One of my 18" subs has as much cone area as nearly 3 12" subs. If you placed 3 12" subs side by side and one of my 18" subs and had them all produce a specific level of excursion, they would produce sound at almost exactly the same volume due to the cone area. 

Now put this into perspective. Each one of my 18" subs has a moving mass of 198g. Considering they have the same cone area as a typical 12" sub, yet are nearly 3 times as large in cone area with a massive motor strength, you can start to get a picture of why peoples' jaws drop when they hear them. 

The size of the sub is entirely irrelevant when it comes to sound quality.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> But is not having an 18" give you different frequencies? Then the 10 will hit


See my next post after yours. It's all a function of cone areas. In fact, being a pro audio sub, my 18" will have a wider frequency range than any subwoofer you've probably ever heard. It is actually usable up to 1000Hz due to the massive motor strength and extremely low cone area. That ratio produces a very delicate sound, while the fact that it's an 18" sub makes it very loud as well. 

This is a reason why the Image Dynamics IDQ 15" V2 sub (the old one made in 2002) is so extremely rare and hard to find. It is one of those low moving mass, high motor strength SQ subs.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

*UPDATE*


Sorry for the mess in my car lol I cleaned it afterwords.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)




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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

These songs hit hard if anyone wants to download it.


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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

What is your Sub box tuned to?

This one hits hard too







And this one is suppose to go real low, I heard it goes down to 20 hz, maybe even lower...


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


>


Something doesn't seem right and isn't that a new sub? I don't think you should be cranking it that hard but too late now.... Anyways I'm not sure if its your camera but looks like you have something hooked up wrong by that wobble... Maybe im just tripping... And holy **** bye bye trunk space lol


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Something doesn't seem right and isn't that a new sub? I don't think you should be cranking it that hard but too late now.... Anyways I'm not sure if its your camera but looks like you have something hooked up wrong by that wobble... Maybe im just tripping... And holy **** bye bye trunk space lol


It doesn't sound right because the sub is being pushed past what it can safely do. Then again, it is a camera recording, so it is hard to tell.
That mechanical noise definitely sounds like the sub is bottoming out though. 

Cone wobble is also generally indicative of a clipped signal.


OP- I love the build, but I cringe watching subs be destroyed like that. You are expecting to much from the sub. Back it down, or you will keep blowing them.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstoner22 said:


> It doesn't sound right because the sub is being pushed past what it can safely do. Then again, it is a camera recording, so it is hard to tell.
> That mechanical noise definitely sounds like the sub is bottoming out though.
> 
> Cone wobble is also generally indicative of a clipped signal.
> ...


Hard to tell with a camera microphone on anything. With the amount of SPL that sub is producing, how likely is it that you'd actually hear it bottoming out unless it was really bad?

The cone either goes forward or backward, not side to side. The suspension and the surround are what force it to stay in this alignment. The reason why you see a "wobble" in that video is because of the way digital cameras scan video frames. You will see this on *many *youtube videos of subwoofer excursion. 

He sent me a picture of the sub. Despite being broken in slowly, the spider/suspension is torn. I've never seen that happen before, ever. The sub is supposed to have woven tinsel leads, and somehow, the tinsels ripped out of the suspension. It became very clear to me that the tinsel leads were not long enough for the excursion capability of this subwoofer, and that's likely what caused his failure. 










Open the image full size and zoom in.


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

Like I said, it is hard to tell on a camera recording. 
However that really does sound like its bottoming out pretty bad. Like you said, its gotta be bad if you can hear it over the SPL being produced.

Also, you are correct, as far as recording wobble, it is the camera.
No speaker has a 100% linear throw though. The surround and suspension will do their best, but if played hard enough with a dirty signal, they can wobble and get thrown out of whack.

Regarding the tinsel leads, it is either a poorly designed sub, or it was simply pushed to hard.
I'm leaning towards the latter.

Here's a neat video showing the camera wobble effect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vWQ6IldsrZ8


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Yuck for chuck !


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

Yeah I'd say its def bottoming out, that didn't sound good at all, and yeah I didn't realize the camera would make it look like its wobbling... But that bottoming out would explain why the sub broke not because the connections where too short because the sub was pushed to far, turn it back a bit man... Is that also a ported box?... Did you have to build that in the trunk btw


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I send it them Monday depending on how much it will cost to ship it.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

And that amp is **** near dead on with RMS power to what the Manufacture claims


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

So what are claiming ? Factory defects , or owner abuse .


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

brian v said:


> So what are claiming ? Factory defects , or owner abuse .


i didnt have the amp half way up so if its owner abuse the speaker is not 1000 watt RMS.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Is there really a following for excursion sounding wobbling subs ?
WoW ..


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

brian v said:


> Is there really a following for excursion sounding wobbling subs ?
> WoW ..


What?


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

And if you have the bass boost cranked up and the gain to high it can still push the sub to far


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

If you do not know why would you ? WOW .


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

you need to research what a gain does on an amp .
it is NOT a volume control.
it is simply there for integration with the source signal. it is simply a sensitivity control.
the fact that it was only half way up means nothing.

also, speakers will blow for two reasons.
mechanical 
thermal

from what I saw I'm the video, you were clearly exceeding the mechanical abilities of the sub. I believe it is a 1000watt sub. but that doesn't mean anything.

what is the box tuned to? 
do you have a sub sonic filter?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CyclonicWrath said:


> Yeah I'd say its def bottoming out, that didn't sound good at all, and yeah I didn't realize the camera would make it look like its wobbling... But that bottoming out would explain why the sub broke not because the connections where too short because the sub was pushed to far, turn it back a bit man... Is that also a ported box?... Did you have to build that in the trunk btw


I built the box, and he had it pulled forward for the video. 



jstoner22 said:


> you need to research what a gain does on an amp .
> it is NOT a volume control.
> it is simply there for integration with the source signal. it is simply a sensitivity control.
> the fact that it was only half way up means nothing.
> ...


Box is tuned to high 20s. I believe 29hz. 2 pounds of fiberglass inside. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

jstoner22 said:


> from what I saw I'm the video, you were clearly exceeding the mechanical abilities of the sub. I believe it is a 1000watt sub. but that doesn't mean anything.


How does 1000 watt RMS subwoofer Not mean anything thats what the company set as it power rating at all times.


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## CyclonicWrath (May 14, 2013)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> How does 1000 watt RMS subwoofer Not mean anything thats what the company set as it power rating at all times.


He means if your amp isn't set right it will still wreck you sub! ... I run a 1200rms amp at 2 ohms on 2 clarion 400w rms subs that's 400watts rms too much but I have no problems because its set right is all he's saying.. And my windows flex without that popping sounds from the sub, I'm going to take a video of mine to see if its just a video thing but I'm pretty sure you need to set back the gain and boost.. Just because the sub and amp are matched don't mean any dial should be at its max or the setting on your deck, I'm not sure if you have done this but turn everything down on your amp and just run half way up on your decks bass for subwoofer and crank it up to where you would listen to it maxed or just a bit further and tune your amp/sub accordingly, if you hear anything weird turn it back


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> How does 1000 watt RMS subwoofer Not mean anything thats what the company set as it power rating at all times.


1000W is the thermal power handling of the sub. Take note, that means it's the amount of heat the sub can dissipate before voice coil damage occurs. You can bottom out a sub with far less than 1000W given the right conditions. This is one reason why the amp needs the subsonic/high pass filter set with vented enclosures.

It is never a bad thing to overpower a sub. Your amp can produce 2100W RMS, and I specifically recommended it so it would be difficult to clip the sub with a thermal overload. You would bottom out the sub before you exceeded its thermal limits, and that's a lot easier to tune around because you can actually hear a sub bottoming out, whereas you can only smell a voice coil burning, and by that point it's too late.

I have very rarely seen people blow good subs with too much unclipped power. It's always a function of the sub bottoming out that damages them at that point, but like I said, it's something you can hear. Here's how a sub sounds when it's bottoming out. 






Chris, only you would be able to tell us if the sub was indeed bottoming out. Did you hear that sound when you opened the trunk? If you did, and you kept turning it up louder, then you simply pushed the sub way too far.


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

well like I was saying, you can blow a sub two ways. thermal overload, or mechanical overload.
1000rms is referring to the thermal handling of the sub.

you fall into the mechanical category. the thermal rating is just irrelevant in this case.

even if it did fall into the thermal category, as stated above, you can still damage your sub if set up improperly.

my subs are 1000continuous as well. even on 700continuous, they are limited mechanically in my enclosure.

( the enclosure plays a large role in this as well. which is why I was asking about tuning frequency etc)
take note that when xtreme says to over power you would rarely actually be doing so. 
if you were to throw a 2100watt amp on your sub, this doesn't mean you feed it 2100watts. having an amplifier that can do it though greatly reduces the chances of feeding your sub a clipped signal. which is where the thermal rating comes into play.

a lot of people have ridiculous amounts of power on their front stage thinking ' I'm feeding my woofers 500watts' etc. just because an amp can make the power doesn't mean the speakers receive it. but that is a whole other topic lol


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstoner22 said:


> well like I was saying, you can blow a sub two ways. thermal overload, or mechanical overload.
> 1000rms is referring to the thermal handling of the sub.
> 
> you fall into the mechanical category. the thermal rating is just irrelevant in this case.
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. I should have been a bit more specific with regard to "overpowering." I do know the box is tuned somewhere in the high 20s and is pretty well packed with fiberglass. I don't remember the exact dimensions.


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

It definitely looks like a high end box. 

It should also be quite musical tuned where it is. 

Do you know if a LPF is being used on the sub?


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