# Camshaft Upgrade 1.4t 1st gen



## David184 (May 26, 2021)

Hello! I have a 2013 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4L turbo, I want to do a camshaft upgrade from zzp but I’m worried I’m going to mess up the timing, is there a way to do this without taking off the timing chain or having to reset the entire timing? What I’m trying to say is can I slide the cams out while keeping tension on the chain (zip tie it to something) then slide the new ones in?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

You don't really want to be messing with the camshafts if you don't know how to time the engine.

That being said, what your wondering is possible with the proper tools and care. ZZP recommends upgrading valve springs as well. They told me that the stock springs will likely bind with the extended duration and lift of the cam.

I'm in the process of a rebuild and I upgraded the valvetrain with the head off of the car.


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

Say I would try to upgrade anyways because I do understand the risk being it is an interference engine and all. I would buy the proper timing tools and the valve springs I did not know about Thankyou for that, how would I go about this?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I recommend buying a service manual and reading through it. That's good to be the easiest way to understand what's involved.

BTW the LUJ/LUV is not an interference engine, at least not with the stock cams and internals combination.


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

Really? Could have sworn I read somewhere it is an interference engine. Have not read through a service manual but I have watched videos on people doing but they all had the engine out, will read up on a service manual Thankyou


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

David184 said:


> Really? Could have sworn I read somewhere it is an interference engine. Have not read through a service manual but I have watched videos on people doing but they all had the engine out, will read up on a service manual Thankyou


Your welcome. The 1.4L LUJ/LUV is non-interference. The 1.8L and the 2.0L are interference engines.


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

David184 said:


> Hello! I have a 2013 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4L turbo, I want to do a camshaft upgrade from zzp but I’m worried I’m going to mess up the timing, is there a way to do this without taking off the timing chain or having to reset the entire timing? What I’m trying to say is can I slide the cams out while keeping tension on the chain (zip tie it to something) then slide the new ones in?


I'm currently in the process of the cam fairly simple to time honestly if you have any mechanical knowledge. Be warned zzp claims only their turbo will work with the cam and hopefully you're tuned by zzp as well


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

let me know when youve installed new cams im looking to upgrade mine as well wanted to get them with the upgraded 72 valve springs so just saving up some more coin lol just bought some other parts


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> let me know when youve installed new cams im looking to upgrade mine as well wanted to get them with the upgraded 72 valve springs so just saving up some more coin lol just bought some other parts


Who are you tuned by? Anyone other than zzp I wouldn't recommend.


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

I’m tuned by BNR right now if I wanted to upgrade cams would that be an issue?


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

David184 said:


> I’m tuned by BNR right now if I wanted to upgrade cams would that be an issue?


Yes... I as well am tuned by BNR also have zzp cam.. car doesn't idle for **** cold. Remote start just dies after running for about 30 seconds it's not been the best experience and I've been waiting for an update tune for about a month now and BNR wasn't thrilled when I told them about the cam told me it was pointless and a waste of money soooo


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

alexcrowell20 said:


> Yes... I as well am tuned by BNR also have zzp cam.. car doesn't idle for **** cold. Remote start just dies after running for about 30 seconds it's not been the best experience and I've been waiting for an update tune for about a month now and BNR wasn't thrilled when I told them about the cam told me it was pointless and a waste of money soooo


Vermont Tuning made it work for me. Share this article with BNR and see if he can help you. From what I understand the cams won't do much without a higher flowing turbo.









TRIFECTA: Bump Sticks for your Gen 1 1.4T


Figure 1 - ZZP Stage 1 intake cam Background on “cam” modifications Four cycle internal combustion engines (like the LUJ / LUV) follow a surprisingly simple concept. They are essentially a large air pump. The pistons descending the cylinder create a low-pressure area in the cylinder in which a mi...



www.trifectaperformance.com





They talk about how they tuned for ZZP cams.


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

JLL said:


> Vermont Tuning made it work for me. Share this article with BNR and see if he can help you. From what I understand the cams won't do much without a higher flowing turbo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info!


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

JLL said:


> Vermont Tuning made it work for me. Share this article with BNR and see if he can help you. From what I understand the cams won't do much without a higher flowing turbo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I talked to zzp about the turbo as well and they told me I had to buy the v3 because BNR's gtx250 wasn't a big turbo... I honestly just got the vibe they don't like each other


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

alexcrowell20 said:


> I talked to zzp about the turbo as well and they told me I had to buy the v3 because BNR's gtx250 wasn't a big turbo... I honestly just got the vibe they don't like each other


I'm pretty sure they don't. 

Basically the cams increase the amount of time the valves stay open. This allows for the potential for more flow if the other components allow for more flow. I'll give you an example. My power goal is 300+ HP. I basically bought everything bolt on that I could including ZZP'S V3, and upgraded all the internals with the exception of the crankshaft. Right now, with the V3 I'm flowing ~180 g/s (~24 lb/min) at ~240 HP. That's maxed out. The V3 won't allow for more flow than that because of the housing design. So, I'm changing to a custom setup with a Garrett G25-550. From what I understand BNR'S turbo will flow more than that. They're website states up to 27 lb/min.


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

JLL said:


> I'm pretty sure they don't.
> 
> Basically the cams increase the amount of time the valves stay open. This allows for the potential for more flow if the other components allow for more flow. I'll give you an example. My power goal is 300+ HP. I basically bought everything bolt on that I could including ZZP'S V3, and upgraded all the internals with the exception of the crankshaft. Right now, with the V3 I'm flowing ~180 g/s (~24 lb/min) at ~240 HP. That's maxed out. The V3 won't allow for more flow than that because of the housing design. So, I'm changing to a custom setup with a Garrett G25-550. From what I understand BNR'S turbo will flow more than that. They're website states up to 27 lb/min.


I think the main issue with the cam in our car is because of the variable valve timing... we basically have the same setup except I'm lacking e85 and the intercooler upgrade and I went with BNR's turbo


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

alexcrowell20 said:


> I talked to zzp about the turbo as well and they told me I had to buy the v3 because BNR's gtx250 wasn't a big turbo... I honestly just got the vibe they don't like each other


When I was talking to zzp about bnr not tuning their injectors they just said jerry (BNR) does not like tuning them and that they are good injectors lol


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

David184 said:


> When I was talking to zzp about bnr not tuning their injectors they just said jerry (BNR) does not like tuning them and that they are good injectors lol


Hmmm I never had an issue with getting injectors tuned and I bought mine from zzp I only got the Bosch 42lb though so maybe that's why.. I will say not long after injectors I cracked the two middle pistons could just be coincidence not sure


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

alexcrowell20 said:


> Hmmm I never had an issue with getting injectors tuned and I bought mine from zzp I only got the Bosch 42lb though so maybe that's why.. I will say not long after injectors I cracked the two middle pistons could just be coincidence not sure


I got the #60 injectors from zzp and he said he can’t tune them, not sure. Ouch 2 cracked pistons, that must have sucked


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

David184 said:


> I got the #60 injectors from zzp and he said he can’t tune them, not sure. Ouch 2 cracked pistons, that must have sucked


That's interesting to know 🤔 I'm trying to get on e85 and was going to get zzp injectors but I think I'll do some research now.. and yesss sure did! Sucked alot of money out of my bank account 🤣 but she's all forged now so hopefully we won't have any issues like that anymore 😁


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

I would ask BNR first if they tune it before you do research then ask what e85 injectors he does tune, cuz I’m running ls1 injectors with adapters that what he recommended and not a lot of direct replacement injectors for the Cruze out there


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

alexcrowell20 said:


> I think the main issue with the cam in our car is because of the variable valve timing... we basically have the same setup except I'm lacking e85 and the intercooler upgrade and I went with BNR's turbo


It is. The stock VVT settings create valve overlap at idle with ZZP'S increased cam duration. It's pretty much trial and error adjustment on the tuner's end. Which probably is why BNR doesn’t like them. I've heard that they do not charge for ANY calibration updates. Is that true?

Once the VVT settings are changed and cold idle is bumped up a little it runs great, especially once everything is at normal operating temperatures. I would not recommend upgrading to E85 until you get the VVT cam timing sorted out. E85 HATES the cold.


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

Because I’m slowly building my car just got it tuned and I wanna overhaul my cams but with zzps cam, I was really counting on not having to change tuners cuz I don’t wanna spend more money on a tune


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

David184 said:


> Because I’m slowly building my car just got it tuned and I wanna overhaul my cams but with zzps cam, I was really counting on not having to change tuners cuz I don’t wanna spend more money on a tune


If you're slowly building your car, there are better ways to spend your performance money and time on other than cams especially if you are early on in the modification process. You'll probably have to pull the head to install them. And If your planning to upgrade the cams, you'll also need a bigger turbo to benefit from them. Then, if your car is going to be dependable with that setup, you'll want forged pistons so you don't crack them of put holes in them.

I'm not trying to be a downer on your plans and I don't know what your current mods are, I just wanted to let you know that cams are a big investment in both time and money if you want to get any benefit from them.


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

JLL said:


> If you're slowly building your car, there are better ways to spend your performance money and time on other than cams especially if you are early on in the modification process. You'll probably have to pull the head to install them. And If your planning to upgrade the cams, you'll also need a bigger turbo to benefit from them. Then, if your car is going to be dependable with that setup, you'll want forged pistons so you don't crack them of put holes in them.
> 
> I'm not trying to be a downer on your plans and I don't know what your current mods are, I just wanted to let you know that cams are a big investment in both time and money if you want to get any benefit from them.


I’ve pretty much done all I can from the outside I have a catback exhaust a zzp v3 turbo, larger injectors MSD coil pack with laser iridium spark plugs, intake kit from K&N, I guess what I’m missing is throttle body and or spacer and ported intake. Also once I do the cams or if I do you think I’ll need to forge the pistons and connecting rods?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

David184 said:


> I’ve pretty much done all I can from the outside I have a catback exhaust a zzp v3 turbo, larger injectors MSD coil pack with laser iridium spark plugs, intake kit from K&N, I guess what I’m missing is throttle body and or spacer and ported intake. Also once I do the cams or if I do you think I’ll need to forge the pistons and connecting rods?


I would recommend performing a compression test and examining the piston crowns and cylinder bores to make a decision on pistons. The connecting rods are forged from the factory. I upgraded mine because they were out of the engine.


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

JLL said:


> I would recommend performing a compression test and examining the piston crowns and cylinder bores to make a decision on pistons. The connecting rods are forged from the factory. I upgraded mine because they were out of the engine.


A compression test has been on the list for a while so I will prioritize that then, and really? Are all connecting rods forged from factory?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

David184 said:


> A compression test has been on the list for a while so I will prioritize that then, and really? Are all connecting rods forged from factory?


Nope. But GM had the insite with this engine to forge them. IMO they are not the greatest quality of rods, at least not compared to the Pauter rods I had made. But they do get the job done.


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

JLL said:


> Nope. But GM had the insite with this engine to forge them. IMO they are not the greatest quality of rods, at least not compared to the Pauter rods I had made. But they do get the job done.


Interesting, that’s really cool! Also thank you for the help with the cams


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

David184 said:


> Interesting, that’s really cool! Also thank you for the help with the cams


Your welcome.


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

JLL said:


> It is. The stock VVT settings create valve overlap at idle with ZZP'S increased cam duration. It's pretty much trial and error adjustment on the tuner's end. Which probably is why BNR doesn’t like them. I've heard that they do not charge for ANY calibration updates. Is that true?
> 
> Once the VVT settings are changed and cold idle is bumped up a little it runs great, especially once everything is at normal operating temperatures. I would not recommend upgrading to E85 until you get the VVT cam timing sorted out. E85 HATES the cold.


That's exactly what I was thinking. And no BNR does not charge for any tune updates period I will say I've been waiting for a tune update for over a month now though sooo it's uhm yeah. My plan was to wait until I get everything situated first I only have 2,500 miles on the fresh build anyway. Did not know that about e85 ill research it!


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## alexcrowell20 (Oct 19, 2021)

David184 said:


> I would ask BNR first if they tune it before you do research then ask what e85 injectors he does tune, cuz I’m running ls1 injectors with adapters that what he recommended and not a lot of direct replacement injectors for the Cruze out there


BNR has 52lb and 60lb injectors for the cruze when I got my turbo from him it said in the directions 52lb minimum for e85 but I've read a few places of guys running e85 on 42lb injectors they are just at max pulse width


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## David184 (May 26, 2021)

alexcrowell20 said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking. And no BNR does not charge for any tune updates period I will say I've been waiting for a tune update for over a month now though sooo it's uhm yeah. My plan was to wait until I get everything situated first I only have 2,500 miles on the fresh build anyway. Did not know that about e85 ill research it!


I was looking at the log files and the engines knocked a couple times on top end and misfired quite a few times also on top end, I’m really hoping he gets back to me soon, also very off topic but the car hates holding 20ibs of boost it just goes back down to 15 or 10 is that the tune? Or the knock, because I’m assuming it reduces timing because it knocks


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks to all for this info , I’m in the middle of a big turbo upgrade and this thread cleared a lot of info regarding ZZP cams , I was looking at upgrading mine as well but do understand a lot of tuning is needed to get them to run right


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## Desacrasa (Feb 23, 2020)

If it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Desacrasa said:


> If it ain't broke don't fix it.


But what's the fun in that?


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> But what's the fun in that?


That’s what I’m saying , can’t wait to show you guys what I got planned for my Cruze im cutting bumpers removing lights I don’t care anymore LOL because race car!!!!!!!


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