# Lapping update : 1.03g and ZZP Brakes's crapy pads



## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Lets start by the positive :

I love Lapping, way more then autocross and im very happy to see that the Engine, Transmission & suspension are working very well !

I was able to get 1.03g of grip tonight @ 27c temperature, the instructor that was with me said he was VERY impressed by the Handling of my car.

In my class, beginers, no one can lap the Circuit faster then me, not a Mazdaspeed 3, not a Mini Cooper S and not even a very modified WRX.


The Negative :

My ZZP brakes are good, but the Pads that they give with this kit are CRAP. They would be perfect for someone who just want to do Autocross or normal driving, but not Lapping a Racetrack.

They are Ceramic pads of unknown brand and they are good for low noise and dust, but no resistance to Heat or Braking power.

I thought i could last this season with them, but i dont think i'll be able too and im afraid that i have warped my Discs because of those pads.

I'll see when i service them...


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> In my class, beginers, no one can lap the Circuit faster then me, not a Mazdaspeed 3, not a Mini Cooper S and not even a very modified WRX.


 Nice!


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Can someone tell me if i change my Pads and realise after that my Discs are gone, will it scrap my new Pads, or i can just buy new Discs and be ok ?


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

When the brakes "pulse" when applied -- and you KNOW the ABS is not active -- the discs ARE either (a) _*warped*_ or (b) have _*glazed *_spots from overheating.


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## Toyotech (Aug 17, 2012)

Poje said:


> Can someone tell me if i change my Pads and realise after that my Discs are gone, will it scrap my new Pads, or i can just buy new Discs and be ok ?


if you have a vibration don't waste your time just get new rotors. but to answer the question no it won't scrap them, many times i've resanded the face of the pad itself when resurfacing rotors on my own vehicles.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Toyotech said:


> if you have a vibration don't waste your time just get new rotors. but to answer the question no it won't scrap them, many times i've resanded the face of the pad itself when resurfacing rotors on my own vehicles.


Thx. Both of ya.


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## Smurfenstein (Nov 16, 2011)

I have to say, that 1.03g is impressive. I wonder if this has something to do with the Pedders, or if other coilovers will give the same result on our car.


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## SeanKruze (May 15, 2013)

WOW lateral 1.03G's that is **** impressive! Supercar numbers from an economy car! I love it!


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Smurfenstein said:


> I have to say, that 1.03g is impressive. I wonder if this has something to do with the Pedders, or if other coilovers will give the same result on our car.


Its the combinaison of The Pedders, the lowered center of gravity, the exellent tires and the UR bars that keep the Frame strong.

And of course, the very good chassis design of the Cruze !


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

I have done a lot of track days and can tell you it's more than likely your fluid boiling than your pads overheating. It could possibly be a combination of pad, disks and fluid. Beginners usually use their brakes way too much. You want to get on them hard and threshold brake. That way you are using them for the least amount of time and they will have the most amount of time to cool before he next corner. Look into porterfield pads and Motul rbf 600 fluid. Have fun!


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

30 Ounce said:


> I have done a lot of track days and can tell you it's more than likely your fluid boiling than your pads overheating. It could possibly be a combination of pad, disks and fluid. Beginners usually use their brakes way too much. You want to get on them hard and threshold brake. That way you are using them for the least amount of time and they will have the most amount of time to cool before he next corner. Look into porterfield pads and Motul rbf 600 fluid. Have fun!


Ya, when i started i was braking for too long, but not anymore and i have ATE Super Blue racing oil, so i think im ok.

Im sure its the pads that were of low quality and i knew right away when i saw them, but i thought it would be ok for this year, but i was wrong...


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

ATE Super Blue is good stuff. You should always bleed them after track day no matter what fluid you run. Nice work by the way, sounds like a good group of cars to run with. Driver skill has a lot more to do with lap times than horsepower. My little 250 hp Datsun is 6 seconds a lap faster then a friends 850 hp Corvette. Of course with a little experience he'll beat me...


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

30 Ounce said:


> ATE Super Blue is good stuff. You should always bleed them after track day no matter what fluid you run. Nice work by the way, sounds like a good group of cars to run with. Driver skill has a lot more to do with lap times than horsepower. My little 250 hp Datsun is 6 seconds a lap faster then a friends 850 hp Corvette. Of course with a little experience he'll beat me...


You're right, the Track i lap on is very technical, so Power doesnt help that much, but it still does and when i go up a class soon, im sure i'll have more of a challenge.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Its 0.16g difference, if stock is 0.87, but i was able to get 0.85 in stock form, so 0.18g. 

But ya, its better in almost every way, except confort.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Poje said:


> Its 0.16g difference, if stock is 0.87, but i was able to get 0.85 in stock form, so 0.18g.
> 
> But ya, its better in almost every way, except *confort*.


OOPS, I mis-read it as *1.3g*, _not _*1.03g*...so, original bogus posting has been deleted.

What is *comfort*? If we _really_ need *comfort* we just get a *whoopy-cushion *to match the interior colors.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> OOPS, I mis-read it as *1.3g*, _not _*1.03g*...so, original bogus posting has been deleted.
> 
> What is *comfort*? If we _really_ need *comfort* we just get a *whoopy-cushion *to match the interior colors.


Hehe, ya.

Anyway if i want confort, just need to raise the suspension by an inch, put it at around 12-13 on Pedders and change Tires.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks for demonstrating the difference between your Pedders and the OEM suspension! His car does not know the meaning of understeer. The same turns his car was taking no sweat were eliciting tire squeal and notable body lean from my Eco. His brakes were also superior to the stock, okay for daily driving GM brakes. It is a bumpy ride on anything but a smooth road, though!


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

sciphi said:


> Thanks for demonstrating the difference between your Pedders and the OEM suspension! His car does not know the meaning of understeer. The same turns his car was taking no sweat were eliciting tire squeal and notable body lean from my Eco. His brakes were also superior to the stock, okay for daily driving GM brakes. It is a bumpy ride on anything but a smooth road, though!


Your car, even with a tired suspension and Tires with 20% left of treads is still very stable and has good handling, a credit to GM. Your Engine pull strongly, a copycat of mine. A good car with a good driver.

Ya, i was very impressed by the Quality of the tarmac, lol, if i had roads like this in Quebec, i would not know that my suspension is harsh !


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## RollinOn18s (Mar 28, 2013)

Where are you lapping? Location


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

RollinOn18s said:


> Where are you lapping? Location


Autodrome St-eustache in Quebec.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Poje said:


> Lets start by the positive :
> 
> I love Lapping, way more then autocross and im very happy to see that the Engine, Transmission & suspension are working very well !
> 
> ...



I just installed Hawk HP plus brake pads and did the Bed-in procedure and... WOW !

I'll know tonight for sure how they do in Lapping, but from what i felt on the Road, they are EPIC, i don't think i'll need to even change the Discs !

I'll let you guys know how it went.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> they are EPIC, i don't think i'll need to even change the Discs !
> 
> I'll let you guys know how it went.


 Nice! let us know how it goes tonight. I am looking at a replacing rotors and pads on my GTO with Disc Brake Australia Rotors and Hawk Pads.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

I am planning on replacing my front pads which pads did you use part number.

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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> I am planning on replacing my front pads which pads did you use part number.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


If you have the Stock brakes, buy Hawk HPS pads, they are the best and the most hardcore you can get with stock.

As for my Brakes, The Pads are realy good, more bite and more endurance, but my rotors are WARPED, lol, even more after tonight.

I'll change them when i can.


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## Toyotech (Aug 17, 2012)

Ran hawk hps pads on my cobalt and focus... loved those pads.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Toyotech said:


> Ran hawk hps pads on my cobalt and focus... loved those pads.


Ya, Hawk are the way to go.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Well, i thought my Rotors were warped, its even worst, both are CRACKED.

Installed them on the 24th of May, not even a month, lol. :eusa_clap:

Sent a mail to ZZP, we'll see what they say...


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## VictoryRedLTRS (Mar 26, 2012)

Poje, are u on the stock rotors or zzp rotor kit? Or is the zzp brake kit just pads and calipers?


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

VictoryRedLTRS said:


> Poje, are u on the stock rotors or zzp rotor kit? Or is the zzp brake kit just pads and calipers?


ZZP kit is a 2-Pistons with 12'' rotors, its not the stock front brake system anymore.

It comes with everything, but the Rotors and Pads are of average quality.

The Calipers and Brakets are of High quality.


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## VictoryRedLTRS (Mar 26, 2012)

Right on, Jw. I was considering saving up and ordering the brake kit for my auto cross build.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

VictoryRedLTRS said:


> Right on, Jw. I was considering saving up and ordering the brake kit for my auto cross build.


For Autocross the stock brakes with HPS pads and better oil would be anough, but its your choice.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

UPDATE : Both Discs are cracked, ZZP will replace them for free with better Discs, probably Plain & undrilled.

Pics : Flickr: MartinPoje's Photostream


Thats after a month of normal use + Lapping once a week...


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Poje said:


> UPDATE : Both Discs are cracked, ZZP will replace them for free with better Discs, probably Plain & undrilled.
> 
> Pics : Flickr: MartinPoje's Photostream
> 
> ...


Ok so now know when I get these I will automatically replace the rotors.

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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Ok so now know when I get these I will automatically replace the rotors.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Well, ZZP are thinking about changing the Rotor + pad combo on their kit, we'll know in the near futur.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Poje said:


> Well, ZZP are thinking about changing the Rotor + pad combo on their kit, we'll know in the near futur.


Tell them to let you test because you already found tjis problem you have to be the most hardcore one of us on here, more power to you man I will be there soon.

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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Tell them to let you test because you already found tjis problem you have to be the most hardcore one of us on here, more power to you man I will be there soon.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Hehe, thx ! :th_coolio:

Ya, they told me that already, i'll give them feedback and i'll post here.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Poje said:


> Hehe, thx ! :th_coolio:
> 
> Ya, they told me that already, i'll give them feedback and i'll post here.


Then tell them I want a set due to temperature difference lol.

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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

30 Ounce said:


> I have done a lot of track days and can tell you it's more than likely your fluid boiling than your pads overheating. It could possibly be a combination of pad, disks and fluid.


There are two different types of brake fade that are easy to tell apart:

1. Pad Fade. This is where the temperature of the pad is exceeded and it loses friction with the disc. The pedal feels normal but braking torque is reduced.

2. Fluid Boiling. This is when boiling fluid forms gas pockets inside the calipers/lines. The pedal feels mushy and will eventually go to the floor if the condition is bad enough.

It is possible to have both types of brake fade at the same time, but boiling fluid is easily detectable and can be corrected and ruled out fairly easily. More reading on this can be found here:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-system-and-upgrade-selection

Info regarding "warped" discs can be found here:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

There's a TON of good brake related information on Stoptech's site here:

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers


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