# Timing belt issue/question.



## AlexGen1Diesel (Dec 6, 2021)

Finally hit the 100k timing belt service indicator on my 2014. Checked out the YouTube videos, and since it seemed rather easy to do I figured I'd give it a go, and do the water pump/idler/tensioner while I was at it. (kit from iDParts)
After removing the timing belt covers, with the old belt still in place, I went to align the timing marks on the new belt to the pulleys, per one of the video suggestions, but nothing lined up. I'm not concerned about the HPFP not aligning, but the cam/crank are off by 3 teeth (short in either direction going from either pulley with its corresponding timing mark). 
Car was running just fine, and I double checked for codes with the only code being p249d left over from delete. 
I've since removed the old belt (maybe I shouldn't have?), and it was definitely stretched compared to the new. (Going to be a tight fit getting the new one on)
I've confirmed the new belt is the correct part number. 
Can/should I just rotate back like 2014 Cruze 2.0 Timing belt replacement ? - that doesn't seem right, but I'm novice. Can rotating by hand cause any damage?
Since I wasn't experiencing any problems do I just leave it as is? - It's a bit confusing, off by more than 1 tooth I should have been seeing problems.


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## AlexGen1Diesel (Dec 6, 2021)

For anyone on the hunt, I was able to track down proper procedure here: Vauxhall Workshop Manuals > Astra J > Engine > Engine mechanics - 2.0L Diesel (LCD, LBS, LBX, LBY) > Repair Instructions > Timing Belt Replacement (workshop-manuals.com) - Granted we're LUZ in the states, but same basic thing.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

I was hoping some others would chime in.

So is it running correctly?


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## AlexGen1Diesel (Dec 6, 2021)

15cruzediesel said:


> I was hoping some others would chime in.
> 
> So is it running correctly?


I haven't finished the job yet. Awaiting the arrival of the special tools. From asking around, I should be able to lock the crank at top dead, then rotate the cam top dead. Things should align then. If not, something is seriously off, and I'll probably have to adjust the cam sprocket.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

Have you rotated it at all since the new belt was installed? 

If you haven't, the engine is still in time since the cam/crank are still in the exact same position they were when the old belt was removed.

This video randomly popped up on my youtube. I never have seen it before.


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## AlexGen1Diesel (Dec 6, 2021)

15cruzediesel said:


> Have you rotated it at all since the new belt was installed?
> 
> If you haven't, the engine is still in time since the cam/crank are still in the exact same position they were when the old belt was removed.


I've probably watched that video and the other 2 on YouTube about 10 times each just to see if I did something wrong/missed something. I haven't put the new belt on, and haven't rotated cam/crank since old one was taken off (even tried to wiggle them with bare hands just to see if they were somehow loose). 
When I first checked against the timing marks on the sprockets, per a suggestion from the video, the old belt was still on. So very well could be in time still, and something odd is just going on, but I'm not willing to risk it. I'd imagine being as far off as they are, I would either have a dead engine, or it'd be making an awful racket with codes thrown everywhere. By that measure "should be" in time is likely the case, but better safe than sorry.
Using the special tools will make sure I'm in time, so I'm okay with going that route now, plus I'll have them when I have to do it again/replace the hpfp/service internals. 
Finding info on this engine, without dropping the coin for the helms manuals, has really been the hardest part of this whole process - but now I know where/how to look. 
When I have the boredom to do it, I'm going to have to go through that Vauxhall manual page by page to get an offline copy.


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

When I did my TB/WP without the locking tools, the cam sprocket did rotate by itself a bit even though it doesn't seem to move very easily, probably a couple teeth. I had placed some witness marks on prior to removing the old belt so I was able to realign the sprocket by rotating slightly with the new belt on. The HPFP did not line up, so I ended up rotating it CW to match once the cam and crank were in sync.

60k later and I haven't had any issues, TB message also cleared itself right after.


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## AlexGen1Diesel (Dec 6, 2021)

The locking tools definitely helped. Didn't really need the sprocket holding tool, so I probably could have just bought the Bosch locking set elsewhere and saved $50. 
After locking TDS everything lined up, I got the new belt on, and the car started right up.
Because I did some other, I'll call them reliability services, while I was waiting for the tools, it's hard to say what's tripping all my codes now and what I should reprogram the ECM to ignore completely/report only vs trip lights (or fix/replace/clean). 
I should probably do these as a separate post, but the codes I have now are:
P026C
P0406
P040D
P040F
P046C
P11CB
P249D
Other than p026c having a multitude of possibilities, and p249d being expected, these all appear to be NOX-02/EGR/EGT related. I'm assuming I can ignore them, I just did too much at once to know for sure. 
Anyhow, replace timing belt message went away on its own; I didn't have to do the 15A blue fuse #21 reset method.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

AlexGen1Diesel said:


> After removing the timing belt covers, with the old belt still in place, I went to align the timing marks on the new belt to the pulleys, per one of the video suggestions, but nothing lined up. I'm not concerned about the HPFP not aligning, but the cam/crank are off by 3 teeth (short in either direction going from either pulley with its corresponding timing mark).


You absolutely need to be worried about the HPFP aligning but not for the reasons you may be thinking. The teeth provide the correct spacing between pullys. So while you may be correct to assume there is no specific position on the pump that is vital to operation (like timing) the teeth spacing between the pullys is vital which is what the marks are for. Some say you can be a tooth or two off but I wouldn't chance it.

As for the belt on yours being 'way off', I imagine the issue is that you didn't turn it over enough times to line everything up before taking off the old belt. It took my a lot of wrenching to find everything lined up but it did eventually line up.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

BDCCruze said:


> You absolutely need to be worried about the HPFP aligning but not for the reasons you may be thinking. The teeth provide the correct spacing between pullys. So while you may be correct to assume there is no specific position on the pump that is vital to operation (like timing) the teeth spacing between the pullys is vital which is what the marks are for. Some say you can be a tooth or two off but I wouldn't chance it.
> 
> As for the belt on yours being 'way off', I imagine the issue is that you didn't turn it over enough times to line everything up before taking off the old belt. It took my a lot of wrenching to find everything lined up but it did eventually line up.


I believe the gears are offset so that for each revolution the belt teeth don't contact the same gear teeth for many many revolutions. It is termed hunting. I first learned of this on a Toyota tundra v8 timing belt job I did years ago.

So i can see why it took you lots of wrenching to get it all lined up.

I'd like to know how many revolutions it takes to have the gear marks line up with the belt marks.

I may be old school but anytime I replace timing chains/belts I always rotate to tdc before removing anything.

I am 50k miles or 3 years from doing this job and I am glad I have this community for a resource.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

15cruzediesel said:


> I believe the gears are offset so that for each revolution the belt teeth don't contact the same gear teeth for many many revolutions. It is termed hunting. I first learned of this on a Toyota tundra v8 timing belt job I did years ago.
> 
> So i can see why it took you lots of wrenching to get it all lined up.
> 
> ...


When I did mine, I used the timing belt lock set. There's a pin that screws into the head and it engages when TDC is reached. After I put the belt on I had to turn it over several times to get it to line back up.


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

15cruzediesel said:


> I believe the gears are offset so that for each revolution the belt teeth don't contact the same gear teeth for many many revolutions. It is termed hunting. I first learned of this on a Toyota tundra v8 timing belt job I did years ago.
> 
> So i can see why it took you lots of wrenching to get it all lined up.
> 
> ...


Yes, since there are 3 separate gears with 3 different amounts of teeth each, they will only be in sync with the timing marks once every so many revolutions. Its a simple least common multiple / least common denominator problem, IIRC I came up with 156 crank revolutions to line them all up... which would take FOREVER to do using a ratchet! So it's near impossible to shut the car off with all 3 marks lines up. As long as the cam and crank timing marks are in contact with the teeth and you dont move them, the HPFP can be fudged into place to line up the 3rd mark, at least that worked for me for the past 70k miles.

Then again, using the timing tools eliminates these issues 😅


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