# ECM reprogrammed per recall - now car won't start



## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

2012 Cruze Automatic 1.4T - I've had the car myself for about 2 years. I had an issue with the car electronics acting funky and that was fixed with the negative battery cable recall. Car worked fine since that was done in November of 2015. The car was in the dealership for the ECM programming recall about 3-4 weeks ago, and now this past Sunday, the car freaked out on the highway. All the gauges died, all service lights came on, and the car lost power (step on the gas and you'd hit maybe 2500rpm). Pulled over and when I coasted down to about 5 MPH the car acted like it slammed into gear. I stopped, and shut it down, and ever since it fails to turn on. It doesn't attempt to crank. When you try to start it, the gauges do their self check and then all drop to 0 - the service stabilitrak, service traction control, service parking assist, etc all come on and flash. You hear a buzzing noise from the engine that sounds like the electronic break booster, but the car doesn't try to crank. Sometimes the radio comes on, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you can roll the windows, sometimes you can't. The dealer today said the code they pulled is saying no sensors or modules are communicating with the ECM, but they don't know why yet. 

I don't know if this could be another negative cable issue, or if something with the ECM may have been damaged with the reprogram. Anyone else have issues after their recall and reprogram?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

For it to be the reprogramming, I'd think it would have to show up a lot faster than 3-4 weeks. As such, it's probably unrelated. The good news, it sounds like a "solid" problem. The dealer should be able to find it. (Nothing worse than a car that does that once every two weeks and then is perfectly fine on restart. Darn hard to fix that kind.)


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

If the ecm had been damaged the problem would have been immediate.

Off the top of my head, a major circuit is opening the moment a load is applied......could even be a battery with a broken internal connector.

Connector (under the top cover) count is 5....6 cells, 2 external terminals.
When a fracture occurs, the connector will 'draw up' as it heats......we are talking thousandth's here, and the battery goes 'open'.

This results in total current loss........yet a test, usually taken with no load and cold connectors will show normal voltage.
The moment a load is introduced, the voltage will show 0.

Often, low draw components, such as a radio, sometimes some lights, will work......until more load is introduced....then, back to 0.

So, my first thought is a battery with a second thought along the lines of a main circuit interruption.

Rob


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Based on Robby's explanation, it begs the question: How old is the battery? Original equipment or replaced when? The secondary question is: Has the Special Battery Cable Coverage #14311 been performed on this car?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Jim,

The OP had the cable replaced (first sentence) for the radio going nutz.

Rob


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Robby said:


> Off the top of my head, a major circuit is opening the moment a load is applied......could even be a battery with a broken internal connector.


I could see that giving a tech the run-around, but I'd think the loss of all electrical power (for the tech) would be a big clue. Like going to crank and seeing everything die.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Robby said:


> Jim,
> 
> The OP had the cable replaced (first sentence) for the radio going nutz.
> 
> Rob


Opps, my bad. Missed it completely. Hopefully the new cable hasn't gone bad in the ensuing 5 months.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> I could see that giving a tech the run-around, but I'd think the loss of all electrical power (for the tech) would be a big clue. Like going to crank and seeing everything die.


Sometimes, even we go brain dead.......it's that, human thing.

Rob


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## irewood (Apr 22, 2016)

Sounds like a data line has dropped and no communication showing up with anything to me. I wouldn't think a battery would cause all that while driving IMO


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

irewood said:


> Sounds like a data line has dropped and no communication showing up with anything to me. I wouldn't think a battery would cause all that while driving IMO


An open battery while driving would mean the power from the alternator is no longer filtered. Major noise on the power system. 

While battery is certainly possible, I'm not taking any bets against something like the ECM going south. Rare, but I won't say it can't happen. Or maybe a major screw up on the car's bus such that the BCM can't talk to the ECM.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Been in the shop since Monday night and still no clue what the issue is. This is killing me.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Jeremi1023 said:


> Been in the shop since Monday night and still no clue what the issue is. This is killing me.


Are you saying the dealer is stumped or are you saying the dealer has yet to give you a update?

Rob


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

They seem to not be sure what it is. The service manager who updated me said the technician was "at a standstill" yesterday - not sure why nothing is communicating. I spoke with them this morning and they said I would have an update today, but they close in 40 minutes.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Jeremi1023 said:


> They seem to not be sure what it is. The service manager who updated me said the technician was "at a standstill" yesterday - not sure why nothing is communicating. I spoke with them this morning and they said I would have an update today, but they close in 40 minutes.


Time to rattle their cage, eh?

Do they at least have you in a car?

Rob


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Robby said:


> Time to rattle their cage, eh?
> 
> Do they at least have you in a car?
> 
> Rob


I called them and asked for an update - they still have no clue what is causing the systems to not communicate - "needle in a haystack." They said they can't put me in a car either until they confirm it is something under warranty or not. They said they will let me know when they have an update. Sounds like it is going to be there a while unfortunately. Trying to find a ride to and from work is proving to be troublesome.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Jeremi1023 said:


> They said they can't put me in a car either until they confirm it is something under warranty or not.


I'm guessing you're outside of Bumper to Bumper. (3 year/36,000 miles).


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Still no update - Solid week with no answer on what's causing this. I'm afraid to see the diagnostic bill for this, let alone what the fix ends up being.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Talked to the dealer yesterday - they were able to put me in a loaner car finally. They said they have decided it is either going to be an ECU replacement or wiring harness replacement. I asked if that was covered under warranty, but they said they didn't know and would be calling me today with an update, however I did not get a call today. Hopefully tomorrow I hear some good news. Day 9...


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

UPDATE:

Dealer called this morning and told me it appears there was a fire in the engine bay which melted the wiring harness, melted an engine mount, killed the tcm and may have damaged the transmission, and also the radiator may need to be replaced. They do not know the cause of the fire- they said it MAY have been an overheating transmission, but have no way to tell. They can't test the transmission because it won't start still, and can't pull data from the ECM due to the melted data line. They told me to get insurance involved due to the fire. 

I spoke with my insurance and they said basically anything damaged by the fire would be covered but not the component that started the fire. So if the tranny started it, it is not covered. Insurance wants more information as to damage and cost before they file a claim, and are pushing me to blame recalls and warranty work through GM. I relayed that information to the dealership and they said they needed to talk to their field manager to try and figure out what to do as they have not had this situation before. 

Ugh.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Call your insurance company back and tell them to get an adjustor out to the dealership ASAP. That's a bullshit response from the insurance company. I highly doubt the ECM reprogram caused this. While I agree this is very likely a component failure your insurance company, GM, and the dealership need to work out who's paying for what. At most you should be responsible for at this point is your insurance non-collision deductible.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

obermd said:


> Call your insurance company back and tell them to get an adjustor out to the dealership ASAP.


Make sure to point out the car has already been siting at the dealership for XXX number of weeks, might speed up their response time. BTW when My girlfriend took out the oil pan of our cavalier on a block of wood in the road, insurance adjuster was at the dealer the very next day.... No excuses for a slow response.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

obermd said:


> Call your insurance company back and tell them to get an adjustor out to the dealership ASAP. That's a bullshit response from the insurance company. I highly doubt the ECM reprogram caused this. While I agree this is very likely a component failure your insurance company, GM, and the dealership need to work out who's paying for what. At most you should be responsible for at this point is your insurance non-collision deductible.


I also doubt the ECM reprogram had anything to do with this. Definitely seems like a mechanical failure somewhere that caused this. I'm waiting to see what the dealership says after they speak with the manager. I'll give insurance a call and see if they can get someone over there too. Oh and State Farm said they're afraid if I do make a claim, they'll drop me because I had too many Road Side Assistance claims recently - all pertaining to this car. Once for the negative battery cable recall, once for coolant leak with the water pump special coverage, and now here with the fire issue. Lovely.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Jeremi1023 said:


> I also doubt the ECM reprogram had anything to do with this. Definitely seems like a mechanical failure somewhere that caused this. I'm waiting to see what the dealership says after they speak with the manager. I'll give insurance a call and see if they can get someone over there too. Oh and State Farm said they're afraid if I do make a claim, they'll drop me because I had too many Road Side Assistance claims recently - all pertaining to this car. Once for the negative battery cable recall, once for coolant leak with the water pump special coverage, and now here with the fire issue. Lovely.


Tell State Farm that you're trying to get this fixed so the car won't keep dying on the road. If you need to get your state insurance commission involved. Dropping for roadside assistance claims is bullshit - they pay more to find a new customer than they've payed in those claims.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jeremi1023 said:


> too many Road Side Assistance claims recently - all pertaining to this car. Once for the negative battery cable recall, once for coolant leak with the water pump special coverage, and now here with the fire issue. Lovely.


Do you have less than 100K on the car? Seems GM should have paid for those tows, not your insurance. All chevy's come with free roadside assistance for 5years/100K. 
Roadside Assistance: Chevrolet, Buick, GMC & Cadillac


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

spacedout said:


> Do you have less than 100K on the car? Seems GM should have paid for those tows, not your insurance. All chevy's come with free roadside assistance for 5years/100K.
> Roadside Assistance: Chevrolet, Buick, GMC & Cadillac


Yeah I am under 100k. StateFarm may try to get that money back from GM, who knows.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I'd like to hear what Robby has to say. If the transmission caught fire, I'd think GM would be on the hook for the whole thing since it was the failure of a covered part that started it.

However, I'm wondering how this happened without setting a code well before a fire started. IIRC, the transmission temp is estimated, but I'm sure slippage is monitored. (By comparing engine RPM and vehicle speed.)


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I'd think the transmission would destroy itself internally before catching other stuff on fire. They, and fluids, tend to not like heat.

Now, a rodent-chewed wire or something in the harness TO the transmission...maybe.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

I read about the NHTSA investigations into 2011 and 2012 Cruzes catching fire due to oil dripping onto hot parts due to a missing shield. The fire occurred right below the oil filter, so maybe that is the case? It sucks the dealership doesn't have a more definitive answer on what is happening. Like jblackburn said, I would think the tranny would have given out before catching fire or heating to that point, but I'm no mechanic.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Jeremi1023 said:


> I read about the NHTSA investigations into 2011 and 2012 Cruzes catching fire due to oil dripping onto hot parts due to a missing shield.


IIRC, the problem was a shield that would trap the oil and prevent it from reaching the ground. There was a recall to hack a chunk out of it to "fix" that.




Jeremi1023 said:


> The fire occurred right below the oil filter, so maybe that is the case?


That sounds more likely. You could have had a leak at the oil filter and it dripped down onto the exhaust manifold.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Dealer called back and recommended I contact GM directly and open a case with their claims team, at which point GM and the dealer will work together directly. They said they can try to work with them to get them to cover the costs of getting the car to a point where they can communicate with the ECM and modules so they can try to see what was happening at the time of the incident - although it was over 2 weeks ago, I don't know how long that information is stored. 


Hopefully GM will agree to something and we can try to get more information out of the car.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Press State Farm......That roadside assist response was out and out b/s......if they don't want to play the roadside assistance game then stop offering the coverage.

Since there is fire or heat melting a wire harness mindset, this is a insurance claim since the car is out of warranty.......actually, even in warranty these are often insurance co. babies since the odds of finding the cause are less than likely.
A trans does not start a fire......that was dumb speculation on the dealers part.....

Someone speculated rodent damage and that is a possibility........also, a wire rubbing against metal, ultimately wearing through the insulation and shorting out, creating a fire is a possibility.

All that aside......speculation on all parties is a waste of time.

Your car has experienced a electrical fire.......State Farm is in the business of Comprehensive coverage.....Fire is a comprehensive claim......there is no discussion here......call State Farm in Bloomington Ill. if you must but it is time to become a PITA consumer.

If they want to subrogate the expense with GM down the road, that is their problem, not yours.

RAISE HEdoublehockystick!,

Rob


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

I am going to wait to see what GM and the Dealership come back with - if GM agrees to front the bill to get the car to a point where they can diagnose cause, that's fine with me. At that point, the cause will either be GM taking the responsibility, or if something not under warranty like chewed wires, then I will push State Farm.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Jeremi1023 said:


> I read about the NHTSA investigations into 2011 and 2012 Cruzes catching fire due to oil dripping onto hot parts due to a missing shield. The fire occurred right below the oil filter, so maybe that is the case? It sucks the dealership doesn't have a more definitive answer on what is happening. Like jblackburn said, I would think the tranny would have given out before catching fire or heating to that point, but I'm no mechanic.


We're saddened to hear you're experiencing such frustrations with your Cruze, Jeremi1023. After reviewing the thread, it is to my understanding you're planning on contacting our Customer Care team for further assistance. Have you connected with them yet? We just wanted to chime in to let you know we're available via private message if additional help is needed. 

Jasmine
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Chevy Customer Care said:


> We're saddened to hear you're experiencing such frustrations with your Cruze, Jeremi1023. After reviewing the thread, it is to my understanding you're planning on contacting our Customer Care team for further assistance. Have you connected with them yet? We just wanted to chime in to let you know we're available via private message if additional help is needed.
> 
> Jasmine
> Chevrolet Customer Care


Hello, 

I did contact the Claims Assistance Team on Monday, but have yet to hear back.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Jeremi1023 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I did contact the Claims Assistance Team on Monday, but have yet to hear back.


Thanks for the follow up, Jeremi1023. If you'd like, we can certainly check the case to see if there are any pertinent updates and request the owning agent touch base with you for a follow up. Just verify the case number within a private message if you want to go this route.

Jasmine
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Update: GM contacted me and opened an investigation - on average it takes them 30 days to complete, so we will see what happens.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Update: GM came back and said they found no manufacturer defects in the vehicle. 


They cannot determine what the cause of the fire was. 


All they know is that some data lines and TPM lines are melted. 


Does anyone here know if a non communicative TPM would cause the car to not start? Trying to figure out if I should just bite the bullet and replace/repair said cable - but not sure if that is the actual cause of no crank.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

It's an insurance comprehensive claim then. Contact State Farm and let them split the cost with GM.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Jeremi1023 said:


> Does anyone here know if a non communicative TPM would cause the car to not start?


I'm not sure what TPM is. The Cruse is a computer system on wheels. A damaged bus line could easily cause a no-start.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Anyone know where this plugs in? Unplugged by dealer and can't find location.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

ChevyGuy said:


> I'm not sure what TPM is. The Cruse is a computer system on wheels. A damaged bus line could easily cause a no-start.


Sorry I meant TCM.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Jeremi1023 said:


> View attachment 195657
> Anyone know where this plugs in? Unplugged by dealer and can't find location.


Dealer has not finished reassembly.......were is the battery?

Rob


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

They gave it back partially disassembled. I have all parts with me. I'm trying to probe the harness wires to test for continuity but don't know where this one plug connects.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Robby said:


> Dealer has not finished reassembly.......were is the battery?


Where's the fuse/relay box? I think that may be what it plugs into. Likewise with some of the lugs I see in the background.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Determined it plugged into the front of the transmission. Currently testing for continuity of all wires on it.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm sure some of us would like to see this "fire" the dealer reported - where it was and how bad.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

ChevyGuy said:


> I'm sure some of us would like to see this "fire" the dealer reported - where it was and how bad.


I'll take some photos and post them here shortly for you guys to see.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Statefarm adjuster said there was no fire and a wire probably got too hot from normal wear and tear. Stated melted engine mount and connectors are normal. Bullshit.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

That looks suspiciously like a short circuit caused fire.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

obermd said:


> That looks suspiciously like a short circuit caused fire.


It certainly doesn't look like what I think of as a fire. Heat yes, but I'm not seeing any combustion.

I'm seeing a melted wire loom, but I'm not yet seeing any damage to the wire itself. I'd start carefully clipping off that melted plastic loom and see what's underneath. See if you can determine if the heat came from the inside or the outside.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

ChevyGuy said:


> obermd said:
> 
> 
> > That looks suspiciously like a short circuit caused fire.
> ...


I have gone through the looms of the harness and tested all with a multimeter and all have continuity at least. I don't see any broken wires actually.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

ChevyGuy said:


> See if you can determine if the heat came from the inside or the outside.


I should add that I think the heat came from the outside of the loom. Because the wires on the inside look remarkably intact - too intact for the heat to come from the inside. I'd expect to see deformed insulation. But the wires I can see look nearly pristine (good color, the shape is correct) while the loom is deformed.




Jeremi1023 said:


> I have gone through the looms of the harness and tested all with a multimeter and all have continuity at least. I don't see any broken wires actually.


Which raises the possibility that this is a red herring. The tech looked at the loom and decided that was the problem. The real problem may be elsewhere. It might be time to go to another dealer.

I'd add that continuity alone is not enough. Some of the wires might be coax for high speed communication. If deformed, it could interfere with the signals. So what is the physical condition of the actual wires?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I've noted the same thing as ChevyGuy regarding heat damage.

Specifically noted the burned cover for the turbo oil line.....this lives right behind the primary catalyst.

I suspect there is a engine problem and that cat was running red red red hot for quite awhile.......that cover is almost indestructable from heat......but your Cruze found a way.

Rob


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## gyrfalcon (Dec 27, 2013)

It doesn't seem like we're getting the whole story. If your car had a fire you should have got your insurance involved if you have any. Now it sounds like you have partially disassembled and damaged vehicle in your possession and are trying to fix it yourself. Good luck with that.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> It doesn't seem like we're getting the whole story. If your car had a fire you should have got your insurance involved if you have any. Now it sounds like you have partially disassembled and damaged vehicle in your possession and are trying to fix it yourself. Good luck with that.


Read the whole thread......the OP has involved his insurance co. and they are of the mindset it is not their concern.

Rob


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

gyrfalcon said:


> It doesn't seem like we're getting the whole story. If your car had a fire you should have got your insurance involved if you have any. Now it sounds like you have partially disassembled and damaged vehicle in your possession and are trying to fix it yourself. Good luck with that.


Not the case at all - From the very start I spoke with insurance, and they pushed me to have GM check it out, which was done - and GM stated they found no manufacturer defects. Now, my insurance adjuster said what he saw was normal wear and tear (he did not look at the car for more than a couple minutes). I just got the invoice from the dealership and have sent that to insurance - it goes into great detail as to what they found and tested. It states they discovered fire damage to the TCM connector, cooler lines, etc. 

Now I am waiting for insurance to use that information to determine if they will be covering my claim.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Jeremi1023 said:


> It states they discovered fire damage to the TCM connector, cooler lines, etc.
> 
> Now I am waiting for insurance to use that information to determine if they will be covering my claim.


Ugh. I think you may be stuck in the middle. Insurance probably covers external events while the dealer is denying that this was some kind of internal malfunction.

Frankly, I think diagnosis is always a tad suspect until everything is fixed. I say this as a guy who has spent a life time making things work. Diagnosis is a theory - the proof is when it's running again. I can't tell you how many times my initial theory of the problem was wrong. What it took to get things working is was the evidence of what was really wrong.

In this case, I think I'd push the dealer into stating why this is "the problem" and not something unrelated. They stated the computers aren't talking to each other. Yes, the loom is melted, but without any evidence of heat damage to the actual wire that may not be the actual reason. And, once the car is running again, I'd look for anything that might cause the cat to overheat.


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## gyrfalcon (Dec 27, 2013)

Jeremi1023 said:


> Not the case at all - From the very start I spoke with insurance, and they pushed me to have GM check it out, which was done - and GM stated they found no manufacturer defects. Now, my insurance adjuster said what he saw was normal wear and tear (he did not look at the car for more than a couple minutes). I just got the invoice from the dealership and have sent that to insurance - it goes into great detail as to what they found and tested. It states they discovered fire damage to the TCM connector, cooler lines, etc.
> 
> Now I am waiting for insurance to use that information to determine if they will be covering my claim.


You should have had your insurance adjuster visit the dealership where the car was being worked on as previously recommended then.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

Dealer sent an estimate to my insurance stating there was fire damage and a breakdown of parts and labor. $6500 - and they said likely to go up once the car is running and they can check out the transmission. Sent this over to insurance today and am hoping to hear something in the next few days.


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## Jeremi1023 (Jun 19, 2014)

UPDATE: Finally the car was diagnosed. I had it brought to a private shop and they got the car running within an hour... The power steering harness melted, and they remade connections and the car started right up. 

They said that was the root cause of the fire and all damages. Insurance will now cover the loss with the cause determined... Thank God...


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

What cause the harness to go bad. Rub through etc etc


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Glad you got resolution!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Merc6 said:


> Glad you got resolution!


+1. It doesn't speak well that the dealer didn't figure that out.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> +1. It doesn't speak well that the dealer didn't figure that out.


Sometimes it takes someone who cares. I had a leak and it ended up being the O ring for the tube we all check for the orange check ball. It was diagnosed as normal and if it was an issue the CEL would come on. Killed a cat in the process of waiting for that cel.


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