# New guy with questions about the Trifecta tuning



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

For many of these questions, we could help you. However, it would be better to refer you to Vince, who invented the tune. Send an email to [email protected] for more answers! There will be a new tune released soon and it would benefit you more to talk to the man with the plan.

-Boats


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## coats (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks! I'll shoot him an email and what's the news about this new tune coming out?


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Its in beta testing (intelliboost).  Don't worry when it comes out, we are all going to jump on it, you'll know lol.


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## Calintz (Jul 21, 2011)

Isn't the beta tune only for the 1.4T?


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Calintz said:


> Isn't the beta tune only for the 1.4T?


Oh yeah....


OP: Its only for the 1.4L for now... True story.


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## Calintz (Jul 21, 2011)

iKermit said:


> Oh yeah....
> 
> 
> OP: Its only for the 1.4L for now... True story.


lol hopefully we get an update as well


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## coats (Oct 5, 2011)

Oh I see, I actually read about that for the 1.4T's it sounds like a pretty sweet tune coming out


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Im still waiting on my car to hit about 10000 miles before I tune probebly next year

h3llion


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

coats said:


> Do you guys have any other info that any of you guys think I should know?


Sure, here's a big one. The tune is not invisable to GM.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> Sure, here's a big one. The tune is not invisable to GM.


I checked.... Cal ID and CVN don't change... Neither does PN... So what changes?


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

the local dyno guy told me the same thing. something about the newer pcm recording all flashes. sounded almost like they might not be able to tell what you did but they will be able to tell you did something. it would be more than enough for them to void the driveline warranty if they wanted to.

for this reason i promptly looked up the price of a junkyard 1.4t just so i would know what i was in for if i blew one up and they didn't cover it and i found one for $1400. not bad if you ask me. 

has anyone hurt one of these engines?


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## R1XSTA (Aug 30, 2011)

The only problem, is the american fuel system is ****. 91 octane is your highest, which is the worst fuel in terms of octane AUS.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Almost. Some stations/brands only go up to 91, others sell up to 93 octane. Then there is the occasional station selling racing gas... I don't remember the octane, but it is over 100 octane.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

UpstateNYBill said:


> Almost. Some stations/brands only go up to 91, others sell up to 93 octane. Then there is the occasional station selling racing gas... I don't remember the octane, but it is over 100 octane.


Racing fuel is usually 107 octane

h3llion


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

here they go up to 93 e10, it really does make a difference in how much knock free boost you can run compared to 91octane. 

racing gas comes in many octanes. i have seen from 98 octane up to 118. here you can get unleaded race gas from the pump but it is stupid expensive.

best bet for cheap race gas around here is e85 but i dont wont to give up any mileage.


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

R1XSTA said:


> The only problem, is the american fuel system is ****. 91 octane is your highest, which is the worst fuel in terms of octane AUS.


i think you use a different rating system then we do. from the 30sec i reseaeched it i think you use "ron" and we use "aki"

here is a quote from wiki that appears to put our 91aki gas at the same as your 95ron gas. 

United States: in the US octane rating is displayed in AKI. In the Rocky Mountain (high elevation) states, 85 AKI (90 RON) is the minimum octane, and 91 AKI (95 RON) is the maximum octane available in fuel[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP]. The reason for this is that in higher-elevation areas, a typical naturally aspirated engine draws in less air mass per cycle because of the reduced density of the atmosphere. This directly translates to less fuel and reduced absolute compression in the cylinder, therefore deterring knock. It is safe to fill a carbureted car that normally takes 87 AKI fuel at sea level with 85 AKI fuel in the mountains, but at sea level the fuel may cause damage to the engine. A disadvantage to this strategy is that most turbocharged vehicles are unable to produce full power, even when using the "premium" 91 AKI fuel. In some east coast states, up to 94 AKI (98 RON) is available.[SUP][21][/SUP] In Colorado as well as parts of the Midwest (primarily Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois and Missouri) ethanol-based E-85 fuel with 105 AKI is available.[SUP][22][/SUP] Often, filling stations near US racing tracks will offer higher octane levels such as 100 AKI[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP]. California fuel stations will offer 87, 89, and 91 AKI (91, 93 and 95 RON) octane fuels, and at some stations, 100 AKI or higher octane, sold as racing fuel.


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

Thats what I did ****! haha



H3LLON3ARTH said:


> Im still waiting on my car to hit about 10000 miles before I tune probebly next year
> 
> h3llion


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> Thats what I did ****! haha


Oh come on man just do it you know you want to!!!!



parish8 said:


> here they go up to 93 e10, it really does make a difference in how much knock free boost you can run compared to 91octane.
> 
> racing gas comes in many octanes. i have seen from 98 octane up to 118. here you can get unleaded race gas from the pump but it is stupid expensive.
> 
> best bet for cheap race gas around here is e85 but i dont wont to give up any mileage.


There is very little difference between 91 to 93 Octane especially in the Cruze's little engine.


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## ECOmaniac (Mar 14, 2012)

Tech II doesn't read your PCM tables AND look for changes between current config and stock so I wouldn't bust a sweat about tunes, especially if you have some aftermarket SRI/CAI and a tune...that's pretty insignificant really and has never voided any warranty I've ever had. 99% of cars aren't tuned to begin with so why would they bother with seeing if you are jacking with the PCM?! Worst case they can tell its been reflashed and maybe how many times...hardly any dealerships look for this without just cause, even if they did they don't have the knowledge base and cannot see what changes have been made specifically, unless they spend a significant amount of time researching the tech data for the car...**** like rev limits, shift points, yada yada, stuff that is obviously identifiable with little effort. I've had several cars tuned, at the dealership for warranty work not related to anything I did FYI and they didn't notice and didn't care. I fully divulged that I had the CAT replaced with a straight pipe and the rear O2 sensor tuned out in a state with emissions testing, they shrugged and went about their business... trust me just find a good dealership and develop a good rapport with them and you will be fine. If you go in with a stock tune, with a previously altered PCM no one gives a **** or even looks, if they do they have to prove the changes that were made are sufficient to void your warranty or sufficient to at least not cover the damages that otherwise would have been covered under warranty. Just knowing it was reflashed is meaningless. Looking for tune changes is a lot of work for a dealership who works on commission anyways and would rather repair the cars then fight over who tuned what. Just don't be an idiot and you should be OK...like bringing the car in with turbocharger problems when it's running 5 PSI over stock because of a tune. Yeah that will raise a redflag for sure. Common sense prevails here.


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

ErikBEggs said:


> Oh come on man just do it you know you want to!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> There is very little difference between 91 to 93 Octane especially in the Cruze's little engine.


there is a significant difference between 91 bp fuel and the 93 e10 that i can get from another station. i have tuned several cars on both fuels and knock sets in much sooner on the bp91 than on the 93. my experience is with turbocharged ls motors that all ready had high compression before the turbo was added but i would think it would still apply at some point with the cruze if you turn the boost high enough. i agree that with a cruze in stock form there is no need for the 93octane.


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

ECOmaniac said:


> Just don't be an idiot and you should be OK...like bringing the car in with turbocharger problems when it's running 5 PSI over stock because of a tune. Yeah that will raise a redflag for sure. Common sense prevails here.


if you take a cruze in with a melted piston there is a pretty good chance they will look for what caused it and may deny your warranty if they can see it has been flashed by someone other than them. i am guessing this is part of "dont be an idiot". if you double your boost and it blows up then you shouldn't count on them giving you a new motor. they deny claims in the diesel truck world and from everything i have been told says it could happen to us.


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## ECOmaniac (Mar 14, 2012)

parish8 said:


> if you take a cruze in with a melted piston there is a pretty good chance they will look for what caused it and may deny your warranty if they can see it has been flashed by someone other than them. i am guessing this is part of "dont be an idiot". if you double your boost and it blows up then you shouldn't count on them giving you a new motor. they deny claims in the diesel truck world and from everything i have been told says it could happen to us.


Maybe the piston was just an example but if you can figure out how to melt a piston on a tune alone I'd love to see it =). It would take enormous amounts of malice and knowledge of trans/engine tables to make that happen with just a tune, on a stock Cruze. If you get tuned by a respectable tuning shop or know what you are doing this would never happen. 


I'll keep playing devils advocate here, not advocating to try and get over on the dealership, or start some argument with you, but there is no way, shape or form they can prove you melted a piston, or did any damage, just buy knowing you have flashed your PCM/TCM/ECM. More often than not its NOT the tune that caused the issue being addressed, which is why they've always repaired my vehicle under warranty despite it being tuned (crankshaft pulley, motor mounts, lifters etc), they all had TSBs written against them prior to the failures! 

Not to mention there are a ton of procedures out there that write to those modules that may or may not give the same indication that it's been flashed. Pedal position relearn, CASE learn, Crank relearn, yada yada all can be done at places outside of the dealership, nothing binds you to use their services.


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## ECOmaniac (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes it could happen though...agree with you there. Even without a tune I find dealerships less and less willing to perform warranty repairs, sometime you have to fight hard to get them to act, specifically powertrain warranty stuff, they like to kick the can down the road and then stick you with a "could not duplicate" + diagnostic bill.


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

on a turbocharged application it is VERY easy to hurt your motor. efilive/hptuners are powerful tuning tools that have no built in safetys. if you want to put the timing at 30deg and turn off the knock sensors there is nothing that is going to stop you. floor it once and boom you have a broken piston. sure that is an extreme example but when tuning for power you are going to be pushing things more to the limits than the factory does and if your not paying attention things can and do sometimes go bad. 

if you mod your car for more power you are nuts to expect the dealer to fix any drive line problems. sure you and i both are going to give it a try and maybe they will fix it for you but it is best to go into it not expecting anything. it is only a matter of time till people find the limit of some hard parts on these cars. it will be interesting to see what happens when they attempt to get it fixed.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

parish8 said:


> on a turbocharged application it is VERY easy to hurt your motor. efilive/hptuners are powerful tuning tools that have no built in safetys. if you want to put the timing at 30deg and turn off the knock sensors there is nothing that is going to stop you. floor it once and boom you have a broken piston. sure that is an extreme example but when tuning for power you are going to be pushing things more to the limits than the factory does and if your not paying attention things can and do sometimes go bad.
> 
> if you mod your car for more power you are nuts to expect the dealer to fix any drive line problems. sure you and i both are going to give it a try and maybe they will fix it for you but it is best to go into it not expecting anything. it is only a matter of time till people find the limit of some hard parts on these cars. it will be interesting to see what happens when they attempt to get it fixed.


One guy did that. He found the limits of his trans synchros with the "no lift shift" tune from Trifecta. He had GM replace the transmission he broke and had everyone on the forum flaming him for 3 pages for bragging that he got a transmission replaced for free even though it was his own fault. 

If anyone happens to follow in his footsteps, they're better off keeping their mouth shut about it.


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## parish8 (Mar 11, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> One guy did that. He found the limits of his trans synchros with the "no lift shift" tune from Trifecta. He had GM replace the transmission he broke and had everyone on the forum flaming him for 3 pages for bragging that he got a transmission replaced for free even though it was his own fault.
> 
> If anyone happens to follow in his footsteps, they're better off keeping their mouth shut about it.


dont get me wrong. i would take it in and just act dumb. if they fix it great. if not well can't blame me for trying.


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## ECOmaniac (Mar 14, 2012)

parish8 said:


> on a turbocharged application it is VERY easy to hurt your motor. efilive/hptuners are powerful tuning tools that have no built in safetys. if you want to put the timing at 30deg and turn off the knock sensors there is nothing that is going to stop you. floor it once and boom you have a broken piston. sure that is an extreme example but when tuning for power you are going to be pushing things more to the limits than the factory does and if your not paying attention things can and do sometimes go bad.
> 
> if you mod your car for more power you are nuts to expect the dealer to fix any drive line problems. sure you and i both are going to give it a try and maybe they will fix it for you but it is best to go into it not expecting anything. it is only a matter of time till people find the limit of some hard parts on these cars. it will be interesting to see what happens when they attempt to get it fixed.


Yeah I understand how much power those programs give you, I own HPTuners Pro and I've been tuning cars on the side for a few years now. Actually waiting for HPTuner support for our vehicles before I add anything aftermarket.. Most people on the site won't be tuning their own car...so the chance they blow up their car from a well respected tune from someone like Trifecta or VTuners etc is highly unlikely. The idiot who blew up his transmission was probably all over the car, all the time. Ignition timing errors are almost always forgiving if you overadvance slightly in an N/A car that is kind of the point actually..without a pressure transducer, you generally advance until you knock and back off from there for safety, obviously with boost it can be less forgiving. I can't really see someone spending 500 for the HPTuner/EFI Live setup and arbitrarily plugging in random values into the timing maps LOL but if they do then yeah of course they are going to do bad things and shouldn't expect the dealership to fix them...


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