# Clear coat swirl marks from car wash



## wysocki396 (Apr 26, 2015)

Just picked up a Cruze yesterday it's was a 2014 LTZ RS in red. And was definitely taken threw those car washes that touch your car with cloth strips. So there's swirl marks. I waxed it with the ICE wax twice tonight and then again with thick coat of Mothers . No change in the swirls. So would clay baring it then rubbing a compound or polishing compound then waxing it do anything? Just curious.


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

Clay will help remove all the wax you've put on, so I would use that first, yes.

Simply put, Compound / Polish / Wax (in that order) will be your best bet for removing the swirls. Some products are different than others so make sure you check out the specific directions for whatever you choose.





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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

They are rated in cut from fine to coarse the harsher you go the deeper the smoothing. Personally I use automagic bc2 and I blue foam pad and I high speed than I go further needed


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

The darker the color, the more swirls you'll see.
To a degree, you can place blame on the car washes.....we call them grinders....they grind the dirt off and grind the last guys dirt in.
That aside, the majority of fine line swirling comes from drying the finish.....the guys that dry it use towels over and over again and they hold grit as well as water.

For myself, I use a dual action polisher (Meguires) and a fine pad using their polish followed by waxing also using the d.a.
Wax is then removed with micro fiber towels.
This preceeded by clay bar of the entire car......you'll be astounded by the debris in the finish the bar pulls off.

Three of my fleet are black, three are dark red, two are dark blue, one is white.
The white one should get the same attention but because it hides sworling so well it gets forgotten more than it should.
The rest.....well, lets just say it is fortunate I enjoy detailing as a hobby.

Rob


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## CruisingintheCruze (Feb 14, 2014)

Robby said:


> For myself, I use a dual action polisher (Meguires) and a fine pad using their polish followed by waxing also using the d.a.
> Wax is then removed with micro fiber towels.
> This preceeded by clay bar of the entire car......you'll be astounded by the debris in the finish the bar pulls off.


are you suggesting waxing first THEN claying?

Since we are on the topic, Lets Talk About Detailing

hi my name is Paul and I have been detailing for roughly 3 years, though not professionally..
I had a business for 2 years, but it wasn't like a professional thing I just made effective flyers/business cards, had people call me, grabbed my truck, my powerwasher, shopvac, cleaning supplies, and a lot of elbow grease and made sure to leave the car spotless before I left. I actually received pretty large tips from pretty picky people for the thorough work I did. I never had to use machines because most of the cars I did were fairly new, not destroyed, and my Gliptone wax was the bomb at getting those minor scratches out.

im working on turning that into a legitimate business but im young still in school and **** so Ive got a long road ahead.....in the mean time I recently got hired by a real detailing company for a management position (even though im still doing the labor) so im taking this as a learning experience.

So now that im working for a real company, I want to know how to really detail the exterior of cars, so I have a string of questions I hope you guys can help that other people may have too....

1) first off, is this the standard process to wash/detail the body...wet car, soap wash, rinse, keep car wet and clay entire car, wipe off clay haze, wax entire car, wipe off wax haze, done? do u guys think im stupid already?:question::grin:

2) when is the right time do use polish? do you polish the entire car?

3) when is the right time to use compound? is that strictly for scratches or do u compound most of the car?

4) I get the gist of buffing, but wat really IS buffing? When do I buff a car? is that just for minor scratches and/or can I buff the whole car?

5) when clients point out a scratch that isn't too deep, what is the appropriate course of action?

6) when swirl marks from car washes are visible, what products should I use and in what order?

7) very high grade/fine sand paper? seen it done before, don't understand. whats that useful for?

sorry if some of these questions are dumb but I really want to fully understand these things so I can make better decisions and do a better job on peoples car and of course MY CRRRUUUZEE


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

Yes you clay first. Robby what does your Fleet do?


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

CruisingintheCruze said:


> are you suggesting waxing first THEN claying?
> 
> Since we are on the topic, Lets Talk About Detailing
> 
> ...


Wait, you're detailing cars professionally and they haven't taught you this stuff?! Lol 




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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

^^ you guys, you don't wax then clay.

Clay basically removes contaminates from the paint, including leftover wax. 

Wash car.
Dry car.
Use ONR or whatever recommended spray and clay bar. Wet with ONR, use clay (small sections of car at a time) wipe off excess with microfiber towel. 

You don't want the residue to dry on your car.

Directions will be included and easy to follow. Again, clay will not remove swirls, it removes contaminates from paint. 

After you do one small section with the clay and wipe it dry, lightly run your fingers across the part you have not used clay on, then do the same on the section you just clayed. You will understand the difference by touching it. 

Hopefully that helps some. 


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## CruisingintheCruze (Feb 14, 2014)

Jukebox Juliet said:


> Wait, you're detailing cars professionally and they haven't taught you this stuff?! Lol


yaa my boss is lazy bum and I know these are like standard things a detailer should know but im asking cuz I was never taught I thought they would be simple questions....and I mean there are other guys on the "team" but its not like they have time (or the lingual skills) to teach me properly.....I guess my friend the internet will have to teach me, or my Dad.


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

CruisingintheCruze said:


> yaa my boss is lazy bum and I know these are like standard things a detailer should know but im asking cuz I was never taught I thought they would be simple questions....and I mean there are other guys on the "team" but its not like they have time (or the lingual skills) to teach me properly.....I guess my friend the internet will have to teach me, or my Dad.


Wow that does not sound fun 
I'm thinking I probably spend way more time on my car than is practical for someone who is getting paid and has a time limit to work with, but idk how the business side of detailing works at all! 


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

CruisingintheCruze said:


> are you suggesting waxing first THEN claying?
> 
> Since we are on the topic, Lets Talk About Detailing
> 
> ...


Hi Paul,

Re read my post......I said wax/polish is PRECEEDED by claying.

Nice post, this one.....thanks.

Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Paul,
Every detailer develops their own method, products used, application methods and so on.
To add further confusion, this really isn't a cut and dried proceedure because different manufacturers use different finish products....some softer than others.
And, lastly, the age of the finish has to be evaluated as well as if there is sun damage.

Over time, you'll be able to identify in close to a glance, which ones will be improved and which ones have been allowed to degrade too far.

Be calm....there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

My steps/methods.

This is after I have evaluated the finish after a thourough hand wash.....sometimes twice.

Assuming the finish is in serviceable condition, I clay bar it using a very thick mix of dish soap and water....I want the mixture to feel slick between my finger tips.
The dish soap has two purposes.......it strips wax and lubricates the finish while I bar it.
I can also 'palm' the finish while wet with the mix to see if I've gotten the debris pulled out of the finish.

Polishing, assuming the finish has minimum swirling after the clay process, is always suggested to bring out the 'POP' or the clarity of the clear coat.....keep in mind, we aren't messing with the color coat here.....we are finessing the clear.
I use a DA for polishing along with a medium grade foam pad.
I remove the polish residue with spray detailer and micr-fiber towels.

I then wax the polished finish using Meguires yellow wax....this is a professional wax, marketed in tan colored bottles....I buy mine by the gallon from a paint supply house.
The yellow wax is selected because I only want it to seal and deepen the polished surface.....this product has no cleaners whatsoever.

Again, removal with micro-fibers.......sometimes I'll follow up with spray detailer as a last, makes me look at all the edges/seams, type process.

This is just the body we are discussing.....I still have to pull the wheels for a full inner/outer wash/wax.....they generally need to be clayed on the inside because of the huge amount of brake dust adhered to the finish....then wax.
Before re-install, I wash the inner fender liners....dish soap first.....tar/grease remover next....rewash and wipe down with silicone spray (not excessive) sprayed on a towel and wiped.

Hope you find some of that moderatly useful.

Rob

PS,
You asked about buffing.
This is a art form developed after burning several perfectly fine finishes by letting the bonnett get too dry/too hot/or carrying too much weight.
Ask me how I know.

What you are doing is actually melting/moving the paint or clear coat to fill deep scratches and lesson finish imperfections.

IMO.....this is a 'last resort' step in the hopes of avoiding a paint job....finishes that require extensive buffing will generally fade back to dull in less than 6 months sun/weather exposure.

Many body shops buff to hide a poorly laid down finish......this is the only time you use 'compound' that has high cutting ability.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Eddy Cruze said:


> Yes you clay first. Robby what does your Fleet do?


Members of the fleet get shown off at various car shows......sometimes they get driven, sometimes they ride in my car trailer to various events.

Rob


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

CruisingintheCruze said:


> yaa my boss is lazy bum and I know these are like standard things a detailer should know but im asking cuz I was never taught I thought they would be simple questions....and I mean there are other guys on the "team" but its not like they have time (or the lingual skills) to teach me properly.....I guess my friend the internet will have to teach me, or my Dad.


 My Mobile Detailer went to a 3 week school in San Diego. It is hard to claim you are a professional with no training. Detailing a car is a fine art and must be done right, no exceptions!


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## 170-3tree (Nov 4, 2014)

While I'm in here researching. (Gotta pay some serious attention to my car and Harley soon) what do y'all recommend for straight chips. From rocks? I have a color match pen but haven't used it yet. Might fetch one from the dealer instead of duplicolor.


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## jcihos (Jun 9, 2013)

Robby said:


> Paul,
> Every detailer develops their own method, products used, application methods and so on.
> To add further confusion, this really isn't a cut and dried proceedure because different manufacturers use different finish products....some softer than others.
> And, lastly, the age of the finish has to be evaluated as well as if there is sun damage.
> ...


This is just about the same process that I will be doing this weekend. Only thing that I would add is don't skimp on the products that you use. A higher quality product will usually be a little more expensive but will do the just much better and last longer then a cheaper product.


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## trev2010 (Mar 27, 2013)

CruisingintheCruze said:


> 7) very high grade/fine sand paper? seen it done before, don't understand. whats that useful for?


This is to remove the swirl marks, you are sanding down the clear. the hard part is not to sand through the clear.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

trev2010 said:


> This is to remove the swirl marks, you are sanding down the clear. the hard part is not to sand through the clear.


But isn't that speeding the demise of the clearcoat? Depending on how long you want to keep the car, it might be worth living with swirl marks now. Because once the clearcoat goes, I think the only option is repaint, sell, or live with it (and it's going to look a lost worse).


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Eddy Cruze said:


> My Mobile Detailer went to a 3 week school in San Diego. It is hard to claim you are a professional with no training. Detailing a car is a fine art and must be done right, no exceptions!


The sad truth in life is there's two definitions of professional: 
1) Someone who get's paid for doing it.
2) Someone who does it right.

Those are two very different meanings!


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## Beelzebubba (Apr 3, 2015)

I'm still working on removing the dealer installed swirl package.

I just ran out of the last of my Mothers California Gold Cake wax on my Helix. They changed the packaging and added a letter to the part number. I may try it anyway. I used Meguiars Tech Wax 2.0. It's okay. It probably will protect longer than the Mothers, but it really doesn't have the same wet look that the Carnauba Cake Wax did. 

Clay barring and Tech wax did a lot for the dealership's slap and scratch "soft cloth" machine damage, but I still have a way to go.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

ChevyGuy said:


> The sad truth in life is there's two definitions of professional:
> 1) Someone who get's paid for doing it.
> 2) Someone who does it right.
> 
> Those are two very different meanings!


Oh you've worked with the Federal Government too!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Eddy Cruze said:


> Oh you've worked with the Federal Government too!


I've worked in small business. I've also worked on government contracts. I think it's more common then a lot of people realize.


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## CruisingintheCruze (Feb 14, 2014)

Robby said:


> Paul,
> Every detailer develops their own method, products used, application methods and so on.
> To add further confusion, this really isn't a cut and dried proceedure because different manufacturers use different finish products....some softer than others.
> And, lastly, the age of the finish has to be evaluated as well as if there is sun damage.
> ...


thank you so much that was exactly the answer I was looking for, thank you for taking the time to do this write up


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## CruisingintheCruze (Feb 14, 2014)

Eddy Cruze said:


> My Mobile Detailer went to a 3 week school in San Diego. It is hard to claim you are a professional with no training. Detailing a car is a fine art and must be done right, no exceptions!


my boss is a joke and a half. the list of unprofessional things he does is unreal, everything from running the business to his "process" of "detailing" cars. like how about this one, the most basic fundamental car washing that we all learned as kids, soaping the car from the top down so that the dirt on the bottom doesn't get drawn back up the car and possibly scratch it, doesn't fly in his business..................on training day I was soaping a car from the top down and hes like "what are you doing" and even after I explained he goes "just soap the car", I like him less everyday


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## CruisingintheCruze (Feb 14, 2014)

jcihos said:


> This is just about the same process that I will be doing this weekend. Only thing that I would add is don't skimp on the products that you use. A higher quality product will usually be a little more expensive but will do the just much better and last longer then a cheaper product.


lol and my dumb ass boss encourages us to skimp on all the products we use, even the cheap ones


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## jcihos (Jun 9, 2013)

CruisingintheCruze said:


> lol and my dumb ass boss encourages us to skimp on all the products we use, even the cheap ones


And that is exactly why I do things myself. I will actually be detailing 2 Cruzes this friday wifes 2013 Silver LTZ/RS and my brother in-laws 2012 BGM LT. I will try to get pics up of the process with a further write up.


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## Jukebox Juliet (Apr 4, 2014)

CruisingintheCruze said:


> my boss is a joke and a half. the list of unprofessional things he does is unreal, everything from running the business to his "process" of "detailing" cars. like how about this one, the most basic fundamental car washing that we all learned as kids, soaping the car from the top down so that the dirt on the bottom doesn't get drawn back up the car and possibly scratch it, doesn't fly in his business..................on training day I was soaping a car from the top down and hes like "what are you doing" and even after I explained he goes "just soap the car", I like him less everyday


Sadly, I'm going to take a wild guess that there are a lot of detail "shops" that operate this way. Especially the large/chain ones, or those places where you run the car through the automatic wash and then the guys hand-dry it afterwards. 

The other thing is the _average_ car owner doesn't care or even notice things like swirls. And I'm guessing a good majority of the people who pay to have their cars detailed are not super OCD about it either, or else they'd be doing it themselves. Again, these are just assumptions, which make me look like an ass.  but just sayin'. 

I think it's cool that you want to a good job!
Have you joined AutoGeek? That's been recommended around this site a few times, they have some good products and info. I've purchased a few times, but have yet to introduce myself on the forums there. [sounds like there are also several people with good info here too!]


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

JJ,
Your observations are spot on!

Rob


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## Beelzebubba (Apr 3, 2015)

I do not have OCD.

I have Auto Body Dysmorphia.:wacko:










This is my old car. All I can see is the door dings, paint chips, dent on the roof from parking too close to the backstop at one of my kid's practices....etc....


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Beelzebubba said:


> I do not have OCD.
> 
> I have Auto Body Dysmorphia.:wacko:
> 
> ...


Steel Gray(or Sepang Green) 6s hatch sans V6 badges?


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## Beelzebubba (Apr 3, 2015)

Yep! 2005 Mazda 6S 5-door

Good car except for the tendency to puke out those Ford ignition coils.


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## Beelzebubba (Apr 3, 2015)

I found that when I removed the V6 badges, the "racer bois" in their 145 hp 3.8 Mustangs and D17 Civics didn't act as stupid at redlights.

Yes, it is "only a 3.0" Yes the 3.5 Altima is quicker. But it is still a V6. I have a 100 hp advantage over your Civic. Quit revving.


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

I had those swirls from auto wash. I am not a detailer. Just have a passion for keeping my car pristine. I read some forums, watched many videos, went out and bought a porter cable da polisher with wolfgang total swirl remover 3.0 and meguiars professional finishing product. Ccs and hex logic pads.For my very first time I am pleased with the results. Check out the pictures youself. My car color is tungsten metallic. Poppin paint.


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

YouTube junkman detailing. He has a 5 part video. How to machine polish for novices. He breaks it down step by step in great detail. It will allow you to perform paint correction on the level I have. This was my very first time touching a buffing machine lol


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

This is not a quick job. It takes me 4 hours to do 1 panel. Wash/dry, clay bar, wash again/dry. Swirl removal on Orange than white pad. Finishing polish on black pad. Than my synthetic wax... it's tedious but the results are amazing.


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## dc5_luis (Feb 13, 2017)

I think this is one of the reasons why I went with silver for my Cruze. Hardly noticeable blemishes. 

The car wash however really scratched my wheels. Need to purchase new ones.


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## mikestony (Jan 17, 2013)

Shroomie said:


> YouTube junkman detailing. He has a 5 part video. How to machine polish for novices. He breaks it down step by step in great detail. It will allow you to perform paint correction on the level I have. This was my very first time touching a buffing machine lol


 

Ah, TheJunkman!! He's the one I got my instructions from also! Lengthy videos, but very, very easy and informative. Along with his videos with The Rag Co....awesome!


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Shroomie said:


> This is not a quick job. It takes me 4 hours to do 1 panel. Wash/dry, clay bar, wash again/dry. Swirl removal on Orange than white pad. Finishing polish on black pad. Than my synthetic wax... it's tedious but the results are amazing.




So, how many times per year do you expect to do this?


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

Hoping only this 1 time, but this is my daily driver and I am a realist. I'll probably have to do it again down the road. I used non aggressive compound on it. Before I was using improper techniques and automatic car washes. The car is a 2014. I've changed the way I do things and so far I haven't seen any additional swirls or marring. I've washed the vehicle 3 times since I did the paint correction.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

We don't call car washes 'Grinders' for nuthin.

1. The last 100 cars dirt and debris is being ground into your finish.

2. All drag through 'Track Type' car washes reclaim their water.....visualize the underfloor area as a toilet tank that only admits fresh water to maintain a designated level.
If you are a resident in the salt belt, the car wash is pressure washing your car with salt water.....forcing it into areas that rarely even get wet.
These type car washes do change the water weekly......but who knows what day they have chosen to perform this service?

Anyways, your paying for a wash that will, without question, damage the finish, force salt water into unprotected areas, and, use carbide brushes that tear the clearcoat off your rims.........bad ju ju.

Better off looking nasty.......I just clean the glass and let it look like a rat till the temperature allows a fresh water hand wash.

Rob


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## Cerl3erus (Sep 16, 2016)

Ive been a professional detailer for 4 years not from complete outside to the complete inside if u have question id be nore then happy to answer if i can, best car to get is white quick acid bath and wax and she looks new lol, hence why i got a white cruze.


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## Shroomie (Jan 16, 2017)

Took pictures in better lighting. 2014 tungstein metallic. I am super pleased for my first time lol. The bumpers and roof i have not done yet. Left parking light tab broke off last week.


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