# Gm drops 1.6 diesel in equinox and GMC terrain



## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Just saw this on my newsfeed. For 2020 model year no 1.6 diesel in USA. .

https://www-autoblog-com.cdn.amppro...let-equinox-gmc-terrain-drop-diesel-engine%2F


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

What's funny, is it was originally listed in the order guide for 2020.

But that's what happens when you *don't advertise a vehicle even exists*.

GM's marketing department needs to be fired years ago - this is a prime example of why.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> What's funny, is it was originally listed in the order guide for 2020.


Meh, every auto maker has things they list in an order guide and then pull from production. They tweak models and trims and you'll occasionally see promotional photos of vehicles you later find you can't buy. 

It's been over a decade or more, but back when I used to be a bigger Mopar fan (Dodge pickups, mostly) there was a Chrysler media relations site that you could access high-resolution photos of new models. I distinctly remember downloading a photo of a Dodge Ram 3500 pickup that was a regular cab, long bed, and had what was a new option of a single rear wheel axle. Some time later you couldn't find that configuration on their website. I emailed them and was told it was pulled from production before it was ever offered.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Also, these articles are downright HIGH-LAR-IOUS when they are comparing prices of the Mazda CX-5 to either of the GM SUVs. They're listing MSRP. No one, and I do mean NO ONE pays MSRP for a GM vehicle!

QUOTE FROM ARTICLE: "The cheapest Equinox diesel starts at a comparably low $30,795. That’s a $2,400 upcharge over the base 1.5-liter turbo four-cylinder, and the value is questionable."

See this right here? The base model of any GM vehicle is always the trim level where you don't qualify for any rebates. Take my 2018 Cruze as an example and the base L trim was $17,995 and you could get no rebates on that, PERIOD. Due to about $5,500 in rebates and discounts from my local dealership, my Diesel LT was $19,170. For $1,175 more than the base L trim I got the diesel engine and a few extra features (alloy wheels, seat warmers, decent stereo, etc.) than the cheapest L trim.

A person would have to be the world's biggest sucker to walk into any GM dealership and pay MSRP for a vehicle. These price comparisons are meaningless because GM is always offering thousands of dollars in rebates and discounts to sell their cars.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I had honestly wondered how long this engine was going to last as an option in the USA because GM sold off their European operations in 2016. The engine was a GM Europe design that is used in a bunch of cars over there and in other cars sold around the world (Asian markets). The North American version had some specific changes made: I seem to remember fast-heating ceramic glow plugs was mentioned, because I guess Americans are unwilling to wait a few more seconds for standard metal glow plugs to heat. That's a shame, because metal glow plugs can be longer-lasting and more durable than ceramic plugs. I wonder if I can order the European parts and they just fit in my engine?

Anyways, GM was certainly getting their engines under contract manufacturing from PSA Group, the French company that bought GM Europe assets. How long does their contract for engines last? One comment in the articles says through 2021 or 2022 or something like that. It wasn't going to be that long before the contract was finished an GM doesn't have a supply of diesel engines for cars. GM certainly isn't designing and manufacturing diesel engines for cars in the USA. Their Duramax division is making the V-8, V-6, and I-4 versions, and I wonder if they have anything to do with that I-6 coming to the 1500 pickups.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Hi Barry

Good point on the Opel/Vauxhall sale and changes. The engine is made in Hungary.
GM is doing alot of belt tightening right now with sales declining across the industry....

I do totally agree with you on articles about gm pricing being expensive vs real sales price. We purchased our 2017 Cruze Diesel at a $5000 discount. Last year, we a 2018 Buick encore for $10500 discount; we paid $15200. It was an insane deal I could not pass up - we had a lease loyalty discount of $2500 that stacked onto an $8k discount....

Most magazine reviews on gm products will question relative value and pricing. I do wonder how many prospective buyers look at those articles and cross gm off their list right off the bat.... I wonder if they adjusted their pricing out of the gate whether it would help them in the long run. On the other hand, every one wants a deal these days..... But to me they seem to have gone way too far on strategy of high pricing and then high discounting.

Back to the topic of the 1.6 diesel engine. I do wish they would have kept it around for another year or two. I figure the more of them our there, the better for us in terms of support. More techs with experience and training on the motor etc.

Jeff


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That point on the 1.6L being an Opel product is something I totally hadn't thought of.

I'd imagine GM wouldn't need to pay any kind of "use fee" for it, since it's technically their intellectual property as they owned Opel when the developed it, but after a certain time, it could very well be something they'd have to pay for...then again, the 2.0TD was a VM engine, so perhaps they could just buy them that way. 

That said, the 1.6TD is being used in the Malibu in South Korea, so it'll be interesting to see if it lasts there.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> I'd imagine GM wouldn't need to pay any kind of "use fee" for it, since it's technically their intellectual property as they owned Opel when the developed it


GM sold Opel to PSA Group. Do you think that sale somehow did not include all the intellectual property? That engine belongs to PSA Group now and the terms of sale almost certainly included they provide engines to GM for whatever products for a certain period of time after completing the sale. They fee they pay is probably a wholesale purchase price for an engine negotiated during the sale process. It's the same as when Ram buys Cummins engines for their pickups: Cummins delivers them completely built to specs and Ram writes a check.



> the 2.0TD was a VM engine


The 2.0 was a Fiat/GM engine.

A little-known part of automotive history was that back in the late 1990s Fiat was in dire financial straits. In 2000 GM invested in Fiat by purchasing 20% of the company (Fiat purchased 6% of GM) to form a joint venture. Fiat had a "put option" to sell GM the rest of the car maker between January 2004 and July 2009. The deal quickly soured for a variety of reasons and in early 2005 GM wrote a $2 billion check to Fiat to avoid having to buy the entire company. As a result of separating that deal there were still some ties between the auto makers to where GM Powertrain Europe was an established engine design organization (I think they are in Milan) to make engines for both Fiat and GM products. The 2.0 Multijet II engine from Fiat was brought to the USA as a test market case for the limited production run of the Cruze diesel (2014-2015).

I don't know what happened to GM Powertrain Europe with the sale of Opel to PSA Group.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> The 2.0 was a Fiat/GM engine.


Produced by VM Motori - which at the time was owned by both Fiat and GM. GM sold their stake in it, so Fiat owns it completely now.

But since that is considered a separate supplier, I think it isn't the same thing as one that may be actually part of an automaker.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Never saw this coming! /s

TBH, I wouldn't buy either without the 2.0T, but that's massively overpriced and doesn't have a great track record or refinement either.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> doesn't have a great track record or refinement either.


I thought it was a plenty good package with the 9AT in my MIL's Terrain Denali (because, yep, have to get that to get the 2.0T), hauling ass around the curvy backroads of Western Kentucky a few weeks back...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MP81 said:


> I thought it was a plenty good package with the 9AT in my MIL's Terrain Denali (because, yep, have to get that to get the 2.0T), hauling ass around the curvy backroads of Western Kentucky a few weeks back...


I'll admit I haven't driven a Terrain/Equinox - only a Malibu - with the current version of the engine, but I've heard the version with lesser HP (in the pint-sized Cadillac XT4) is quite good. The 1.5T feels way less powerful than similar competitors, even if I hate the Honda 1.5T too.

The Camaro/Cadillac sedan version of the 2.0T engine is a gruff and unreliable POS, though.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Produced by VM Motori - which at the time was owned by both Fiat and GM. GM sold their stake in it, so Fiat owns it completely now.
> 
> But since that is considered a separate supplier, I think it isn't the same thing as one that may be actually part of an automaker.


I had considered going back to revise my statement to include something about VM Motori.

I couldn't figure out which engines in all of the cars were designed/made by whom. My understanding was that VM Motori was wholly owned by Fiat and made engines for them and plenty of other auto manufacturers (Jeep SUVs and Ram pickups are notable here in the USA), but the new 1.6 engine was exclusively by Opel (GM Powertrain Europe).

Notably, the 2.0 engine came in a lot of Fiat products and just happened to make it into a few GM products. The 1.6 engine comes in lots of GM (Opel) products but doesn't have a single Fiat application that I'm aware of.

EDIT: It looks like GM owned a 50% stake in VM Motori from 2007, but sold that stake in 2013. The 2.0 engine came from Fiat alone at that point, for the 2014-2015 Cruze.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Interestingly enough, the 3.0L EcoDiesel in the Ram 1500s is actually based off a design GM was creating (then a 2.8L) for the CTS, but later abandoned.

I've driven a Lancia Voyager with the 2.8TD that is used in the Colorado Diesel, as that is also another VM diesel - that was pretty hilarious roasting the tires from a roll in a minivan - especially one with a funky badge.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

I just purchased a 2019 Equinox Premier Diesel AWD ... and from my research, they were keeping the Diesel engine, but it would no longer be available on the AWD version, which is why I purchased the 2019, instead of the 2020. So far, love the mpg! Under 2k miles on it and got 44.5 mpg on a quick 48 mile highway trip this past weekend going 75 mph on the interstate


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

spaycace said:


> I just purchased a 2019 Equinox Premier Diesel AWD ... and from my research, they were keeping the Diesel engine, but it would no longer be available on the AWD version, which is why I purchased the 2019, instead of the 2020. So far, love the mpg! Under 2k miles on it and got 44.5 mpg on a quick 48 mile highway trip this past weekend going 75 mph on the interstate


That was originally the plan for 2020 - then they killing it entirely instead.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> The Camaro/Cadillac sedan version of the 2.0T engine is a gruff and unreliable POS, though.


You mean to tell me the base model of a sports car that exists so my secretary can buy a white automatic convertible is something that encourages customers to upgrade to the V-6 or V-8 trim? This is my surprised face :-|


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> 3.0L EcoDiesel in the Ram 1500s


That is an engine that should have been offered in more Chrysler vehicles. A Chrysler 300 and/or Dodge Charger would have been nice to be able to get a full-size RWD American car with a decent diesel engine.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> That was originally the plan for 2020 - then they killing it entirely instead.


I'm just spitballing here but maybe the thinking was the people buying 4wd versions of vehicles are mostly people who live in snow states that freeze solid for a good portion of the year. They have that old stigma of "Diesel engines don't start in the cold..." and won't buy them there. Thus, GM probably has spreadsheets that show the take rate for diesel SUVs with 4wd was really low and they axed it from the lineup.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> That is an engine that should have been offered in more Chrysler vehicles. A Chrysler 300 and/or Dodge Charger would have been nice to be able to get a full-size RWD American car with a decent diesel engine.


It's in a few more - the Grand Cherokee has it, and it will be coming out in the Wrangler and Gladiator, as well.

It's a fun engine with the ZF 8-speed, especially in non-4WD cars - it lights the rear tires up.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> I'm just spitballing here but maybe the thinking was the people buying 4wd versions of vehicles are mostly people who live in snow states that freeze solid for a good portion of the year. They have that old stigma of "Diesel engines don't start in the cold..." and won't buy them there. Thus, GM probably has spreadsheets that show the take rate for diesel SUVs with 4wd was really low and they axed it from the lineup.


Oh, look, I can't multiquote?

That's a good thought...


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## ganthc (May 25, 2018)

So I guess GM's excursion into diesel for non-trucks is over.  I have really enjoyed my Cruze Diesel, and I was recently hit by a dump truck (I'm fine, he clipped me running a red light). But I haven't hear an estimate on cost of fixing it or whether they will total it. If they total it, I guess I will have to quickly find another diesel to get into before they are all gone.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> It's in a few more - the Grand Cherokee has it, and it will be coming out in the Wrangler and Gladiator, as well.
> 
> It's a fun engine with the ZF 8-speed, especially in non-4WD cars - it lights the rear tires up.


Yeah, and it needs to be an option in their cars: Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

ganthc said:


> So I guess GM's excursion into diesel for non-trucks is over.  I have really enjoyed my Cruze Diesel, and I was recently hit by a dump truck (I'm fine, he clipped me running a red light). But I haven't hear an estimate on cost of fixing it or whether they will total it. If they total it, I guess I will have to quickly find another diesel to get into before they are all gone.


If they total it, what might be the cost spread to fix it? You can pay out of pocket for the balance.

If they total the car and offer (example) $5,000 and the repair estimate is $5,800? You tell them to pay you $4,999 and you keep the car, then pay $801 out-of-pocket to get the car fixed. It's worth doing if you like the car a lot.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

spaycace said:


> I just purchased a 2019 Equinox Premier Diesel AWD ... and from my research, they were keeping the Diesel engine, but it would no longer be available on the AWD version, which is why I purchased the 2019, instead of the 2020. So far, love the mpg! Under 2k miles on it and got 44.5 mpg on a quick 48 mile highway trip this past weekend going 75 mph on the interstate


How are you liking it.

I'm thinking of trading the Cruze. I want the tow package too. Actually thinking of doing the diesel since it's better economy then the gas. Which would be worse then the Cruze

The hp looks awesome though on the gas


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> How are you liking it.
> 
> I'm thinking of trading the Cruze. I want the tow package too. Actually thinking of doing the diesel since it's better economy then the gas. Which would be worse then the Cruze
> 
> The hp looks awesome though on the gas


 Be sure to look at the towing capacity of the equinox with the different engine options 
With the 1.6 liter diesel it has 1500 pound towing capacity. Whereas the 2.0 liter gas motor allows the equinox to tow 3500 pounds. 

Jeff


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

oregon_rider said:


> Be sure to look at the towing capacity of the equinox with the different engine options
> With the 1.6 liter diesel it has 1500 pound towing capacity. Whereas the 2.0 liter gas motor allows the equinox to tow 3500 pounds.
> 
> Jeff


I"m looking right now and it's not showing any tow unless it's the 2.0. Not for me anyways.
Also looking at the HP. 170 for the 1.5. 137 for the diesel. 250 for the 2.0.
The price jump is $2600 for the bigger motor. 9 sp auto. Tow package. Plus the increased price of AWD. As tow don't come without AWD also.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I love the 9 speed over the six speed transmission... That is worth half of those extra $$$ to me.... 

Jeff


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Yeah. it's $4g just to get the tow package. 

The over the top vision would be a nice addon but not for the $6g and everything else it comes with. 

Wish I could find out how big the gas tank was though. I like my cruze in that I can basically go 425 miles. The hyundai I had before would only go 315. It was 2 gallons smaller.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> With the 1.6 liter diesel it has 1500 pound towing capacity. Whereas the 2.0 liter gas motor allows the equinox to tow 3500 pounds.


Why the difference?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Why the difference?


I posted the HP rating. With only 137 horses for the diesel motor. Hard to tow anything with something that weak.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Why the difference?


I think the 1.6 diesel is designed for car use with driveability, nvh and economy in mind. It's all a trade off....


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> Yeah. it's $4g just to get the tow package.
> 
> The over the top vision would be a nice addon but not for the $6g and everything else it comes with.
> 
> Wish I could find out how big the gas tank was though. I like my cruze in that I can basically go 425 miles. The hyundai I had before would only go 315. It was 2 gallons smaller.


You should check out the GMC terrain too. My local Buick/GMC dealer discounts more than the chevy dealer.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

The denali gets the 9sp auto with the 1.5. The equinox doesn't. 

The equinox has AWD option. The denali is FWD only. 

Has a few more safety options I don't really care for. bit pricier.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> With only 137 horses for the diesel motor. Hard to tow anything with something that weak.


It's fine. You might not get the best acceleration but it's fine.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I posted the HP rating. With only 137 horses for the diesel motor. Hard to tow anything with something that weak.


I looked at the Chevy Equinox and noticed the diesel comes with the 6-speed auto: presumably the same or similar Aisin transmission that was bundled with the Gen1 diesel Cruze, but I could be wrong. The 2.0T engine comes with the 9-speed that is the same as what came with the diesel in the Gen2 Cruze.

Maybe the towing limit has to do with the transmission?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> I looked at the Chevy Equinox and noticed the diesel comes with the 6-speed auto: presumably the same or similar Aisin transmission that was bundled with the Gen1 diesel Cruze, but I could be wrong. The 2.0T engine comes with the 9-speed that is the same as what came with the diesel in the Gen2 Cruze.
> 
> Maybe the towing limit has to do with the transmission?


HP plays a part in it also. And the receiver hitch.

My son is trying to tell me his 2015 dodge 1500 eco pickup will pull 12,000 lbs. 
While the new trucks have a capability of 14,000 lbs. With a class IV receiver hitch. It depends on the engine, trans, rear ends. 

His truck with the v6 eco diesel 6 sp 3.21 rear ends pull 4,770 lbs. 
If he had the 3.55 rear ends. It goes up to 7,060 lbs. 

I'd have to look at it again. IIRC. The GMC Denali mentioned earlier. Has the 1.5 with 9sp. Yet the Equinox gets the 6sp. 

At any rate. I can see why the the diesel would no longer be offered with it's weaker HP.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> HP plays a part in it also. And the receiver hitch.
> 
> My son is trying to tell me his 2015 dodge 1500 eco pickup will pull 12,000 lbs.
> While the new trucks have a capability of 14,000 lbs. With a class IV receiver hitch. It depends on the engine, trans, rear ends.
> ...


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> His truck with the v6 eco diesel 6 sp 3.21 rear ends pull 4,770 lbs.
> If he had the 3.55 rear ends. It goes up to 7,060 lbs.


If he had something like a 4:55 ratio he could tow 12,000 pounds if he didn't mind a top speed of about 55mph. A Detroit 6-71 could tow far more than that with only about 230 horsepower, but that top speed was the limit.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> If he had something like a 4:55 ratio he could tow 12,000 pounds if he didn't mind a top speed of about 55mph. A Detroit 6-71 could tow far more than that with only about 230 horsepower, but that top speed was the limit.


He needs the 5.7 hemi to go with the 3:55 to tow 7,000

He has the eco v6 diesel with 3;21


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> The denali gets the 9sp auto with the 1.5. The equinox doesn't.
> 
> The equinox has AWD option. The denali is FWD only.
> 
> Has a few more safety options I don't really care for. bit pricier.


The Terrain Denali only comes with the 2.0T, but the entire Terrain line (aside from the 1.6TD) gets the 9AT, whereas the Equinox is stuck with the 6AT unless you get the 2.0T.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> He needs the 5.7 hemi to go with the 3:55 to tow 7,000


Swap out the rear end gear for something better if you need towing capacity with the same engine.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

In addition to gear ratio, torque and horsepower, doesn’t braking also play a significant role in towing capacity calculation?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Barry Allen said:


> I looked at the Chevy Equinox and noticed the diesel comes with the 6-speed auto: presumably the same or similar Aisin transmission that was bundled with the Gen1 diesel Cruze, but I could be wrong. The 2.0T engine comes with the 9-speed that is the same as what came with the diesel in the Gen2 Cruze.
> 
> Maybe the towing limit has to do with the transmission?


It's a 6T GM trans, not the Aisin.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> In addition to gear ratio, torque and horsepower, doesn’t braking also play a significant role in towing capacity calculation?


Unless you enjoy careening out of control, yes.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Rivergoer said:


> In addition to gear ratio, torque and horsepower, doesn’t braking also play a significant role in towing capacity calculation?


It makes a huge difference. If the vehicles (gasoline and diesel) have the same parts it is not an issue with brakes.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> It's a 6T GM trans, not the Aisin.


That might have a huge part of the different ratings. That 6-speed might not be up to towing an extra 2,000 pounds.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Called up Dodge today and got towing specs for the truck I'm considering. 

3.0 v6 ecodiesel. 240 hp. 3:55 differentials. 4X4. 8sp auto. 7,740 lbs. towing. Crew cab. 5 ft. 7 in. bed though makes it a tough decision. I miss the days of 8 ft.


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## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

Shame it’s dropped due to no advertising


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Called up Dodge today and got towing specs for the truck I'm considering.
> 
> 3.0 v6 ecodiesel. 240 hp. 3:55 differentials. 4X4. 8sp auto. 7,740 lbs. towing. Crew cab. 5 ft. 7 in. bed though makes it a tough decision. I miss the days of 8 ft.


They still make Regular Cab/Long Box trucks for the Ram 1500 Classic. Not sure about 2019 on the classic, but in 2018 you could get a 3.0L Diesel RCLB truck in Tradesman or Big Horn.

Quad Cab, Regular (6'4) Box is the way to go, IMO.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

MP81 said:


> They still make Regular Cab/Long Box trucks for the Ram 1500 Classic. Not sure about 2019 on the classic, but in 2018 you could get a 3.0L Diesel RCLB truck in Tradesman or Big Horn.
> 
> Quad Cab, Regular (6'4) Box is the way to go, IMO.



Yep.

I'm liking the idea of 4 doors though.

The diesel motor is temporarily on hiatus at the moment. . Chrysler got busted in a emissions scandal also. My son had to take his truck in for a software update. It's supposedly coming back out for the 20 models. With an extra 20 horses. Don't remember the torque.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

snowwy66 said:


> Yep.
> 
> I'm liking the idea of 4 doors though.
> 
> The diesel motor is temporarily on hiatus at the moment. . Chrysler got busted in a emissions scandal also. My son had to take his truck in for a software update. It's supposedly coming back out for the 20 models. With an extra 20 horses. Don't remember the torque.


And the new truck is sooooo much nicer than the old one.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Yep.
> 
> I'm liking the idea of 4 doors though.
> 
> The diesel motor is temporarily on hiatus at the moment. . Chrysler got busted in a emissions scandal also. My son had to take his truck in for a software update. It's supposedly coming back out for the 20 models. With an extra 20 horses. Don't remember the torque.


480 lb-ft in the 2020.



jblackburn said:


> And the new truck is sooooo much nicer than the old one.


Yes, yes it is.


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