# gen 2 Silly DEF system



## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Very helpful information. May I ask what app you used to get that information? Looks very informative!


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

I don't believe the system has an actual full range level sensor. One of mine was supposedly filled with the second complimentary service and only reads 67% also. I believe it has a couple of level probes, in between it calculates the level. It's good to know that it will go that far when empty. I suspect the difference in the car range from the truck is based on overall emmissions. Compared to the truck the Cruze is tiny, even without DEF. 

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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I was wondering also how this level sensor worked? I recently got a DIC message saying DEF low and 589 miles to Empty. So, I checked the level monitor and it said 37%. So, I poured a 2.5 gallon jug into the filler and I ended up overflowing DEF before I could put in the entire amount. Previously I had put in a full 2.5 gallons at 35% with no issue. The level indicator must not be real accurate. 

On a side bar, it really annoys me that diesel vehicles are held to a ridiculous standard and get put in limp mode over emissions system issues. If a catalytic converter somehow has an issue the car will continue to operate with only a check engine light. But, diesels get shut down. 

At least the Gen 2 gives us 399 miles now, when my DEF heater failed on my Gen 1 Cruze it gave me 100 miles before the speed was limited. 
Not much time if you are on a holiday weekend road trip. It should give a more reasonable time frame to make repairs, like a 1000 miles.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

It uses some sort of radar, sonar, spectogram thing. It's not very accurate but it can detect things like if the tank is frozen. 

Also the standard emissions pids rarely give accuruate information. Because GM likes to be GM.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

It's not a matter of ridiculous standards. 

dpfs plug up. cats don't. And are a lot more expensive to repair. 

dpfs are a lot more critical then cats. And can do some damage while cats won't. 

Repairs and parts are also more expensive. 

The 2 provide the same service but maintanance wise. It's totally opposite.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

snowwy66 said:


> It's not a matter of ridiculous standards.
> 
> dpfs plug up. cats don't. And are a lot more expensive to repair.
> 
> ...


Catalytic converters most definitely plug up, they also burn up. I have had both happen in the past. Clogging a CAT or a DPF is bad. Typically if either plug up you will find yourself in limp mode for the self preservation of the engine and rightfully so. 

DEF however, has nothing to do with the DPF. The DEF is injected after the DPF and is only there to reduce NOx emissions (see VW scandal). It is a good thing, however justifying stranding a driver over a minor thing like a DEF tank heater failure seems ridiculous to me. The emissions does go up, but the car is still safe to drive. Someone somewhere decided that the car should be rendered useless in a very short mileage window. My point was a similar failure in a CAT and the owner can still drive the car despite higher emissions as long as they want to with no repair.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

TDCruze said:


> Catalytic converters most definitely plug up, they also burn up. I have had both happen in the past. Clogging a CAT or a DPF is bad. Typically if either plug up you will find yourself in limp mode for the self preservation of the engine and rightfully so.
> 
> DEF however, has nothing to do with the DPF. The DEF is injected after the DPF and is only there to reduce NOx emissions (see VW scandal). It is a good thing, however justifying stranding a driver over a minor thing like a DEF tank heater failure seems ridiculous to me. The emissions does go up, but the car is still safe to drive. Someone somewhere decided that the car should be rendered useless in a very short mileage window. My point was a similar failure in a CAT and the owner can still drive the car despite higher emissions as long as they want to with no repair.


Cats plugging up was common when leaded gas existed. Since it was cheaper, that's what people were using. While it's not impossible. Don't see it happening much these days. Haven't read anything on the internet. Just don't see them being replaced anywhere near as much as they were being replaced last century. 

Supposedly NOx is just part of the equation. DEF is also supposed to help keep the dpf clean. BEfore def came out. dpf's were clogging up. A LOT. And required constant cleaning. 
As for def itself. Injectors have been known to melt down. If the injector can't squirt fluid for whatever reason. 

I don't know about cars. But semi's will go in to limp mode for ANY problem associated with either dpf or def. And not just emissions. I had limp mode when a delta sensor went out. Something associated with the turbo. On a 09 KW. Not def equipped. Only dpf. 

I feel your agony when it comes to limp mode. Semis also have the problem. So it's not just cars. And it's not just the def or the dpf.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Can somebody tell me what iOS program was used to gather the original information above in the original posting?


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Carminooch said:


> Can somebody tell me what iOS program was used to gather the original information above in the original posting?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think OP @Ironhorsepilot references “Torque Pro” but I’m not familiar with this app, perhaps OP or others can help out?


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Rivergoer said:


> I think OP @Ironhorsepilot references “Torque Pro” but I’m not familiar with this app, perhaps OP or others can help out?


Thanks! Seems as if it’s only for Android but the screenshots looked like iPhone screenshots. I could be wrong 


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> One of mine was supposedly filled with the second complimentary service and only reads 67% also.


You could have ended up with a cheap & lazy service tech as was done with my first complimentary service. I got what I assumed was a full DEF tank only for it to give me low readings just 1,500 miles later. Turns out the service tech saw the low DEF reading on the display and put a gallon in the tank instead of filling it to the top. Just enough to make the service indicator go away and leave you needing a refill shortly after.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

It looks like the torque app. And didn't see it available for iphone last i checked. 

If you can get your hands on ANYTHING android no longer being used. With at least android operating system 4.xxx. You can use the torque. 

Any old tablet or even a non activated phone will work. All you need is a bluetooth android device and a bluetooth obd2 plugin for the cars port.


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Funny thing mine did the other day as well. I was running it down to around 15% to get a full 2.5 gal jug in without worrying about overfilling. 

This time though it for to 19% and told me I had around 260 mile a till empty. I kept driving to 18% and it took a full 2.5gal without any overfilling hassle at all.


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## Ironhorsepilot (Oct 26, 2018)

Sorry for not checking back, got busy. App is called OBD Fusion which is the apple version of torque pro. You have to buy an OBD bluetooth transmitter which I bought off amazon for like $20. Overall its not bad. You have to search the PIDs for the ones that work or dont. 

https://www.obdsoftware.net/software/obdfusion


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## Ironhorsepilot (Oct 26, 2018)

There is a facebook page that has alot of information as well. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/519...tif_id=1543768325876813&notif_t=group_comment


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Ironhorsepilot said:


> There is a facebook page that has alot of information as well.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/519...tif_id=1543768325876813&notif_t=group_comment


Thank you for this! This is going to be a big help


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## yachtboy205 (Sep 11, 2017)

I have a 2017 Cruze diesel and am plagued with SCR problems. In a little over a year the car has been at the dealers 4 times. In fact it is there right now and has been there since Dec.18, 2018. They keep telling me they are diagnosing the problem and are working with GM engineers to fix the problem. They replaced 2 sensors with no luck. They ordered parts from GM and installed them but the check engine light still came on. Is any one else having this problem. I bought the Cruze when VW bought back my 2012 Jetta TDI and if they don't correct this problem I may be looking at another buy back situation. The car was purchased in Sept, 2017 and has 20800 miles on it. Does any one have any buy back experience with GM.


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## quailallstar (Feb 16, 2018)

yachtboy205 said:


> I have a 2017 Cruze diesel and am plagued with SCR problems. In a little over a year the car has been at the dealers 4 times. In fact it is there right now and has been there since Dec.18, 2018. They keep telling me they are diagnosing the problem and are working with GM engineers to fix the problem. They replaced 2 sensors with no luck. They ordered parts from GM and installed them but the check engine light still came on. Is any one else having this problem. I bought the Cruze when VW bought back my 2012 Jetta TDI and if they don't correct this problem I may be looking at another buy back situation. The car was purchased in Sept, 2017 and has 20800 miles on it. Does any one have any buy back experience with GM.


Jettison that car into the stratosphere and get something other than a GM product. 

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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

According to the schematics there's no traditional sending unit in the DEF tank but instead there's 3 thermistor type things at 3 levels. In other words it can only sense 3 levels. I would imagine the computer logic looks at which ones have fluid on them and the rate at which the higher one goes from covered to un covered and comes up with some B.S. calculated DEF fluid level.


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## obnxous (Jan 17, 2018)

I always bought my DEF from truck stop pumps in bulk. Knowing that I could get it for almost $2 per gallon and then seeing the 2gal jugs for sale for $13 was ridiculous. Sure, it looks funny when my little cruze is in the truck lanes filling up on DEF, but when I can get a full tank (6 gallons typically) for only $12 that lasts about 10k miles, totally worth it IMO.

The app, Torque and Torque light are on android. I have 2 of the OBD2 to Bluetooth readers to use with those apps. Once you setup your screen and the info you want to see, they seem very informative. It would tell me things like boost pressure, throttle position, coolant temp, and plenty of other options. I forget all I had on mine but it is a very useful tool when you're driving and all of a sudden the engine light pops on. You can find the code and research it when you get where you're going. convenient.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

quailallstar said:


> Jettison that car into the stratosphere and get something other than a GM product.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Or we can just jettison you and continue working with our GM products. PUNT!!!


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