# Cruze Oil Lights then Engine Light



## jaygeo1 (Nov 10, 2010)

*This is a new one!................*

bhunted, hope all works out for you...sorry to hear of your situation.  Hopefully it is just a faulty sensor and not an actual loss of oil pressure. Best wishes for you.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

PLEASE keep us informed. Hopefully it's nothing serious. Hope you're back on the road ASAP!


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## Uns69 (Jan 30, 2011)

That stinks! I hope its a sensor also. However, if the car became sluggish, It might have been oil starved. If it happend to be getting no oil for any reason and they fix it, I would recommend you have them do a compression test to make sure there was no internal engine damage. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

Good Morning Gang,

Thanks for the well wishes. Yesterday was a pure day of ****. After waiting over an hour for a tow, then another hour screwing with getting a rental, nothing but bad news transpired.

They took it right in. It was barely moving to get it into the bay. They immediately got on the phone with GM. It also starting making noise in the engine.

The reps from GM are extremely concerned because this never happened before supposedly. We were hoping it was just a loose oil filler cap which I found after the car was in tow online, but turns out it's worse.

GM now requests we pull the engine out and get it back to their labs ASAP and they will be sending a brand new tested engine out as well for replacement.

So looks like my usual rotten luck wins again! Never fails that I'm the guinea pig for some dang thing. 

The dealer is extremely apologetic and will do whatever it takes to keep us happy. Including putting us in a new loaded Malibu till this thing is fixed.

Guess in the mean time, just have to wait to see what transpires. Depending where they are sending the new engine out of, could take a day to 7 days to get here. How long to put it in is unknown. 

I'll report in as soon as I hear more. Thanks for hearing me out.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sorry for the bad luck OP. It was most likely a slight screw up during assembly. Try to have GM send you a report of what their techs and engineers find out.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted - John

WOW! So sorry to read this. *IF* your dealer is willing to do whatever to make you happy, I would tell him to get on the phone with GM and work it out so that you get a BRAND NEW car!!!!!!! It's not like the car was months old, but DAYS old! I would NOT want THAT car back! That's the LEAST GM could do since this is something they have "never" seen before.

Stick to your guns! Turn that bad luck around and get a new car. Big deal they want to give you a new Malibu to drive. What about the car you have to pay for for the next xxx years?

Hang in there! I see you're from NJ- not quite the most "righteous" state. If necessary, contact your Consumer Protection agency, NOT the BBB- they have their own problems- more unscrupulous people. Call the Atty. General's office. If necessary, locate a GM number in Detroit for CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS- NOT "customer service"- they're basically useless. If they're like the "live help" on the Buick site, you'll get someone from IBM in Texas anyway. GM doesn't handle their own customer service.

PLEASE keep us informed. If I can be of ANY help locating numbers or names etc. let me know. Keep this site in mind IF things don't work out in your favor-DealerRater.com - Car Dealer Reviews, Car Dealer Directory, FREE Dealership Classified Ads


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## Uns69 (Jan 30, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> bhunted - John
> 
> WOW! So sorry to read this. *IF* your dealer is willing to do whatever to make you happy, I would tell him to get on the phone with GM and work it out so that you get a BRAND NEW car!!!!!!! It's not like the car was months old, but DAYS old! I would NOT want THAT car back! That's the LEAST GM could do since this is something they have "never" seen before.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with fastdriver 100%. Not to add pressure to your situation. But there is no reason you shouldn't end up with a new car to replace your new "defective" car.

Even though GM says this is something they have "never" seen before, they will probably see this again....unfortunatly.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

*Wake up gm!*

AND........bhunted aka John-

IF GM was SMART, they would be aware of something called FACEBOOK! It did "wonders" for the people in EGYPT! It could have the OPPOSITE effect on GM if they don't step up to the plate here!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted- John-

I know nothing about you, but I'm wondering if you are very young and not sure what to do in this situation. I have been around the block a few times as I am sure others here have been too and could offer you some suggestions. I would be letting this dealer know right from the get go that you want a new car so that HE can start thinking about what to do. MAYBE you could just mention to him in a casual way that friends on Facebook have been giving you advice or commenting on your situation. IF he knows ANYTHING about the power of Facebook, he might react quickly and get on the phone with GM!

Just some thoughts. I know if this was me, I'd be on the phone myself to Detroit!
General Motors Corporate Office | Headquarters
300 Renaissance Center Detroit, MI 48265
(313)556-5000 

Ask for Alan Batey
Vice President, Chevrolet Sales & Service OR someone in his office!


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

Hi Gang,

Been around the block for sure. I'm not no spring chicken anymore. 
But it's only a lease and it can go away fast if I get pissed enough. Originally, getting a new one was an option from the GM at the dealer. But they have no more in stock. I got time yet to see what happens. If something goes awry, a new one will be the only way I go. But I'm willing to give them some very small leeway. we'll see.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted said:


> Hi Gang,
> 
> Been around the block for sure. I'm not no spring chicken anymore.
> But it's only a lease and it can go away fast if I get pissed enough. Originally, getting a new one was an option from the GM at the dealer. But they have no more in stock. I got time yet to see what happens. If something goes awry, a new one will be the only way I go. But I'm willing to give them some very small leeway. we'll see.


PHEW!!! I am VERY glad to hear that. I would opt for the new one! I feel so much better now to hear that the dealer DID offer you a new car. He might not have one in stock, BUT he can use his GM computer to locate one for you at another dealer and do a swap! That's how I was able to get my LTZ RS with all the equipment that I wanted. 

OK- off my soapbox for now. Going to the car wash and then maybe put a coat of Zaino on my new baby that I JUST got on Valentine's Day!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Just noticed- our avatars look good together! You show the front, I show the rear! LOL...


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

He he.... just was mulling over this and it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I just called my sales guy and told him that I'd rather have a new car because we were considering buying it out at the end of the lease. He's going to talk to the GM and get back to me. I really don't like the fact that it suffered right off the bat. 

I've had bad experiences in the past and this just burns my goat more. Couldn't sleep last night so I this kept me awake eating at me.

Past history and my bad luck always prevails it seems. Had a brand new Caddy years ago... first 24 hrs, a rock off the highway went through my windshield. Not even a week later, someone took a ball-peen hammer to my door.

Brand new truck... 22.5 hrs, drunk driver rear ends me on the highway. and so on...

etc., etc., etc... I never do anything wrong, it's just my sucky fate and I'm tired of it.


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

LMAO! Book ends! 



fastdriver said:


> Just noticed- our avatars look good together! You show the front, I show the rear! LOL...


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

I'm glad GM did make an offer of a new car. I hope they stick to it. By the way... don't these engines come from Austria?


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## Uns69 (Jan 30, 2011)

John, You sound so much like me its not even funny. Hang in there. Good luck getting this resolved.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

A new car is a better deal because no matter what the current car's value has droped far beyond any other 1.4 out there.


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## TSURacing (Jan 1, 2011)

robertbick said:


> I'm glad GM did make an offer of a new car. I hope they stick to it. By the way... don't these engines come from Austria?


Yes for now they do. By the end of the year the engine plant in Flint, MI will be tooled up to build the 1.4 engines for the Volt, Cruze, and Sonic.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Oh man! You do have bad luck. You need to buy one of those Chinese good luck plants! They are funny looking, but.............at this point in time, what do you have to lose? I would buy SEVERAL!


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## scaredpoet (Nov 29, 2010)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> A new car is a better deal because no matter what the current car's value has droped far beyond any other 1.4 out there.


Really? The car hasn't been in an accident, so it's not like there's a reason to doubt it structurally. Cars get warranty work done all the time, and that doesn't mean it'll automatically lost value.

Now, to the dealer or anyone who buys the car AFTER the OP, yeah the value will be less, because the car is no longer new and has already been delivered to a customer. But the same is true of any car he, you or I drive off the lot.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

scaredpoet said:


> Really? The car hasn't been in an accident, so it's not like there's a reason to doubt it structurally. Cars get warranty work done all the time, and that doesn't mean it'll automatically lost value.
> 
> Now, to the dealer or anyone who buys the car AFTER the OP, yeah the value will be less, because the car is no longer new and has already been delivered to a customer. But the same is true of any car he, you or I drive off the lot.


An entire drive train replacement either via warranty or not still gets attached to that vehicles VIN forever. It's a major component replacement so yes it will damage the resale value of the vehicle.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted-

What's happening with your dead Cruze? Are they trying to locate another one for you so you don't have to wait to order one?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> An entire drive train replacement either via warranty or not still gets attached to that vehicles VIN forever. It's a major component replacement so yes it will damage the resale value of the vehicle.


JDM is right, the resell value of a car with an engine implant plummets. Get a new one that's put together right, this could turn into a lemon and always have issues down the road


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> JDM is right, the resell value of a car with an engine implant plummets. Get a new one that's put together right, this could turn into a lemon and always have issues down the road


I wonder who is going to end up with my 2008 Malibu LTZ? It got a new engine at 16,016 miles. Had about 17,400 when I turned it in on Valentine's Day. Will GM have to divulge this info to the new owner or will it be on the title?


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## cerbomark (Dec 13, 2010)

Most likely a new motor will result in things not being put baclk properly. What NJ dealer ? I dealt with one on a mailbu and made them replace one for me(I won t get into details). NJ Consumer Affairs is where you want to make your complaint if they don t replace the car. You can do it online.NJ also gives you a certain time to back out of the deal completely(not sure how long this has been going). They also told me they had no more cars (haha) and that the one I had was already titled (another joke), I told them that those are all YOUR problems not mine. Let them know about consumers afffairs because they will go to bat for you if you have grounds to stand on. Not to mention I can almost tell you for sure that you will find scratches on your brand new car after this much work. Footnote/ when they rplaced my car , the replacement was a few hundred more and it reflected in my new paperwork in my lease payment. Consumer Affairs also had them send me a check for the difference when all was said and done. And then because they made me fight them I posted on EdMunds.com where they advertise and they called me for weeks to try and have it removed. You can guess what I told them.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

cerbomark said:


> Most likely a new motor will result in things not being put baclk properly. What NJ dealer ? I dealt with one on a mailbu and made them replace one for me(I won t get into details). NJ Consumer Affairs is where you want to make your complaint if they don t replace the car. You can do it online.NJ also gives you a certain time to back out of the deal completely(not sure how long this has been going). They also told me they had no more cars (haha) and that the one I had was already titled (another joke), I told them that those are all YOUR problems not mine. Let them know about consumers afffairs because they will go to bat for you if you have grounds to stand on. Not to mention I can almost tell you for sure that you will find scratches on your brand new car after this much work. Footnote/ when they rplaced my car , the replacement was a few hundred more and it reflected in my new paperwork in my lease payment. Consumer Affairs also had them send me a check for the difference when all was said and done. And then because they made me fight them I posted on EdMunds.com where they advertise and they called me for weeks to try and have it removed. You can guess what I told them.



Good for you for standing up to them and NOT caving in! ANOTHER good place to post about their "wonderful" service is http://www.dealerrater.com


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

I hope everything works out for ya OP. I don't think this is a norm by any means with GMs vehicles. I think it's just a fluke thing. I'm sure you'll get a brand new trust worthy Cruze as a replacement. Maybe GM just wanted the vehicle back so they can decide what caused the failure and which assembly worker or parts supplier to scold. They have a lot riding on the Cruze and it's made a big splash in the compact market so I'm sure they will do their best to take care of you and everyone else with a Cruze.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> I hope everything works out for ya OP. I don't think this is a norm by any means with GMs vehicles. I think it's just a fluke thing. I'm sure you'll get a brand new trust worthy Cruze as a replacement. Maybe GM just wanted the vehicle back so they can decide what caused the failure and which assembly worker or parts supplier to scold. They have a lot riding on the Cruze and it's made a big splash in the compact market so I'm sure they will do their best to take care of you and everyone else with a Cruze.


I agree. Let's just HOPE that this common sense dilemma is seen the same way by those in the "ivory towers" in Detroit!


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

Whelp, little of everything. We are getting a new car to replace this one. Believe it or not, the dealer stepped up to the plate. GM just wants to replace the engine. So hats off to my dealer after I explained my concerns to them. Problem right now is locating one. Seems red is hard to find. They get sold real quick. But I believe they found one in CT somewhere and having it shipped down. Supposedly Tues or Weds, we have to go in and upturn all the paperwork and re-sign all new. They told me the biggest hassle is the lousey red tape and I can understand that. In the mean time, nursing a bad head cold which is why I've been a tad scarce. Not to mention, we just got our power turned back on. These wind storms are playing major havoc down here.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted said:


> Whelp, little of everything. We are getting a new car to replace this one. Believe it or not, the dealer stepped up to the plate. GM just wants to replace the engine. So hats off to my dealer after I explained my concerns to them. Problem right now is locating one. Seems red is hard to find. They get sold real quick. But I believe they found one in CT somewhere and having it shipped down. Supposedly Tues or Weds, we have to go in and upturn all the paperwork and re-sign all new. They told me the biggest hassle is the lousey red tape and I can understand that. In the mean time, nursing a bad head cold which is why I've been a tad scarce. Not to mention, we just got our power turned back on. These wind storms are playing major havoc down here.


SORRY to hear you're sick! THRILLED that they located a new car for you! Just curious what dealer in CT? Let me know. McDermott Chevy in East Haven, CT has about 3-4 RED ones. Just not sure what models they are.

So, GM ONLY wanted to replace the engine? They didn't even want the WHOLE car back in one piece so they could see what happened? Mmm...VERY strange considering that they said they NEVER saw this happen before. Oh well, that's their problem now.

Please keep us informed! Get better soon! Wind has died down a little in CT, but now we are expecting more snow tomorrow morning!


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Awesome! A Replacement car is what you deserved. Now get rid of that head cold and enjoy the new new car in slightly warmer weather =D


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

bhunted said:


> ...I believe they found one in CT somewhere and having it shipped down. Supposedly Tues or Weds.


fastdriver is gonna wake up Tues morning with a red Cruze missing from his driveway!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

robertbick said:


> fastdriver is gonna wake up Tues morning with a red Cruze missing from his driveway!


 OH NO! I better keep ALL the floodlights on! Wait, I have that new OnStar that can send the crooks a message and slow down the car and put on the flashers. I'm not worried.


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> OH NO! I better keep ALL the floodlights on! Wait, I have that new OnStar that can send the crooks a message and slow down the car and put on the flashers. I'm not worried.


Unless they unscrew the antenna.  

I always wondered if removing the antenna would stop Onstar from tracking the car.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

robertbick said:


> Unless they unscrew the antenna.
> 
> I always wondered if removing the antenna would stop Onstar from tracking the car.


Mmm...I doubt it. A few days ago when I went to the car wash, I unscrewed the antenna and the XM was still working. 

Do you get the e-mails from OnStar? If so, have you ever gone into detail to see how many miles you've driven during the month or for the week? They KNOW EVERYTHING! Even if the car is in the garage, they can still tap it from "outer space"! A little scary. AND...we were worried a long time ago about "black boxes"!


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

I only received the first email from the day I picked it up. I remember the emails I used to get from my Silverado but don't remember seeing that detailed info. Maybe they didnt have that 2 1/2 years ago. I don't usually keep Onstar past the free trial period.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted-

What's happening? Has the red baby arrived yet from CT?


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

OK, we be in Cruze Mode again! Believe it or not.They didn't have to get one from CT. A truck came in with new stock and low and behold, a new red Cruze happened to be on the truck with 1.7 miles on it. It had a few more bells and whistles which the dealer picked up all except for $286 bux which I had to give them and the payments went up 4 bux.
This one has the 17" wheels instead of the regular 16s.. Lighted vanity mirrors, (got all creamy over that! not! lol)... heated mirrors and a few other things. But not a big deal! if this vehicle holds out for 39 months and does good, we'll probably buy it out in the end. Hence, my reason for not wanting the replaced engine version. Oh and they threw in 3 years of free LOF changes to offset the extra money I had to shell out. Nice!

Now on the dead one, believe it or not... the engine came Monday and was in and running when i got there yesterday. Clean as a whistle.

Why GM did what they did? I have no idea. I'd just assume they'd want the whole car back. What happens if the engine was fine and the computer made it barf? Or something else?
They suspect it might be the oil pump which is located INSIDE the engine. Real smart move by these dumb companies. Put everything where it cost a fortune to get at. Oh well, like ya said. it's their problem now. They also said that GM would probably never tell them what was wrong, but if they did, they'd let me know.

To GM for not stepping up to the plate and being smart? BLAH! Dummies!
To my dealership and all the guys that stood their ground and stepped up to the plate to do the right thing? Hats off to yaz and many thanks.
We had a conversation with the general manager, salesperson and biz manager. If the dealer did not wish to step up to the plate and null the deal, we would have lawyered up, filed with the lemon law and bought a Ford Focus. It's only because the owner of the dealership said "do whatever it takes to make them happy"... and they did!

You here in Northern NJ and need to work with a great bunch of guys? Go to Crane Chevy in Clifton, NJ and ask for salesperson Scott. http://www.cranechevy.net/
Everybody from sales to service were fantastic!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted-

YIPEE!!! Congratulations! Drive it in good health! If you're Catholic, maybe you better stop by the church and have the priest bless this one just in case there are any demons hanging around!  

The fact that GM did NOT want your car back to see exactly what happened just shows me that they really don't care. They brush it off as a "rare event"- probably never happen again- and just move on. That really makes me mad. If I was head of engineering or whoever would make the decision to get that car back, I would do it to be sure there is no major problem in the works. When you live in those IVORY TOWERS in Detroit, you lose all touch with the REAL WORLD! You would think that after everything GM has been through, they would pay MORE attention to things like this. As Mr. DeLorenzo at Rants - Autoextremist.com ~ the bare-knuckled, unvarnished, high octane truth... says, CEO Ackerson of GM is the WRONG guy for the position! The fact that rumors are flying around that they want to bring back the 80 year old Lutz to GM says something!

Anyway, good luck. Take some pics and enjoy those lighted mirrors! They work wonders at night! 

KUDOS to your dealer! NOW, you should go to DealerRater.com - Car Dealer Reviews, Car Dealer Directory, FREE Dealership Classified Ads and PRAISE them! When you get your GM customer survey in the mail give your dealer ALL top marks. If you give them *ANYTHING* less like a satisfactory, GM considers it "bad"! Most likely there will be a section on the survey for other comments. That's where I would lambaste GM for their lack of concern!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted-

Just dropped Crane Chevy a thank you note for helping a fellow Cruze owner get a new car! Maybe they'll tell you.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted-

Just found this in the GM Tech Link from NOVEMBER 2010:

*2011

Cruze -- Engine exchange program for 2011 MY 1.4L (RPO LUJ) and 1.8L (RPO LUW) engines

Replace the engine for major failures

Repair the engine for major failures

PI0195A*

Here's the link- GM Techlink: November 2010 Archives

Mmm...so much for "they never heard of this before"?


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> Mmm...so much for "they never heard of this before"?


I never heard of it, so that means I am the only one?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

montgom626 said:


> I never heard of it, so that means I am the only one?


EXACTLY! That's what GM told bhunted when his engine died a few weeks ago when the car was one week old! Yet, that Tech Link notice is from NOVEMBER! So, obviously GM DID hear of it before and WAS aware of it! WHY do they LIE?


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

Hmmm, maybe the dealer never heard of it. But I'd think once it happened, the GM reps would have told them. Still, screw them... who wants their car pulled apart when they screw it up?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted said:


> Hmmm, maybe the dealer never heard of it. But I'd think once it happened, the GM reps would have told them. Still, screw them... who wants their car pulled apart when they screw it up?


EXACTLY right!

This is ONE reason WHY people feel the way they do with car companies and their dealers. Granted, your dealer DID step up to the plate, but the fact that maybe they did NOT know about this problem because GM never informed them, makes the dealer look like THEY were lying! As for factory reps, IF they are ANYTHING like the ones I dealt with from Chrysler back in 1999-2001 with my Chrysler 300M, they are LIARS and TOTALLY USELESS yuppies! The dealers wine and dine them, so WHOSE side are they going to be on? I got one of them fired because he was going against decisions that Chrysler Corporate made in MY favor! I was in CONSTANT contact with Auburn Hills once I had enough of the local runaround and CRAP that went on for MONTHS with the THREE "5-STAR" dealers and the factory reps!!!!!!

I think it was someone in the other GM Forum that was defending dealers/salesmen saying that the customers were the liars! In some cases that may be true, but when YOU are NOT one of those people, you expect to be treated like the honest person that you are.

Anyway, just glad that you got your new baby and hope that you have years of fun driving!


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

Knocking wood: Cruze still running fine! 

Not for nothing, but the auto industry in general needs a face lift with the way they sell cars. Cars are one of the only expensive investments you can make and have no money back guarantee. Some companies are offering a 30 day program which is good, but the majority does not!

It's one of those things, once you sign on the line, expect pure 'h-e-l-l' if something goes wrong. Whether or not they try to appease you, why would anyone want to go through all that bull. The government needs to get down on this problem and enforce a new law that protects the consumer for a 30 day period on ALL new car sales. If something major happens, there should be no questions asked. Take the dang vehicle back and give the customer a new one. Let the manufacturer deal with the bull.
Even one of the most expensive investments you can make in a lifetime, buying a house, you have better protection. Why should a car be any different? IMHO. It's not like people have money to throw away these days nor is time.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted said:


> Knocking wood: Cruze still running fine!
> 
> Not for nothing, but the auto industry in general needs a face lift with the way they sell cars. Cars are one of the only expensive investments you can make and have no money back guarantee. Some companies are offering a 30 day program which is good, but the majority does not!
> 
> ...


My bookend friend- RIGHT ON! There are "lemon laws", but even those vary from state to state and are not that great because the car has to be in for the same problem something like 3 times. In your case, there should have been NO hesitation whatsoever from GM AND the dealer!

Glad the car is running great. I can't wait for the warmer weather to get here so I can apply my ZAINO "polish". It looks AMAZING on our color and all darker colors! If you like the "wet look", you'll love ZAINO. It leaves no chalky residue in creases and just shines like the dickens! I have been using their products since my "award-winning" 1999 Chrysler 300M- Candy Apple Red! The shine was the BEST thing about THAT car! Check it out. You won't be sorry. If you call Zaino, the owner, Sal Zaino, usually answers the phone. You'll love his New Jersey accent!


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## bhunted (Feb 16, 2011)

New Joisey accent huh? LOL.... we don't have accents... the rest of the country does. hehe. Which Zaino product you use?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

bhunted said:


> New Joisey accent huh? LOL.... we don't have accents... the rest of the country does. hehe. Which Zaino product you use?


 I forgot you were from NJ and I was thinking that people always say- we don't have an accent, you do! LOL...Personally, i love it!

I definitely use the Z-6 which is the spray for that glossy shine. To tell you the truth, I have not kept up with all their new products because I was out of commission for a while with a hip replacement so I was afraid to do a lot of stooping and bending. On their website is loads of information about how to get started and what to buy. I do have one of their newer products- Clear Seal- that you just wipe on and let it dry. NO wiping off! I think there is another spray like the Z-6, but better. Forgot that name, but I'm sure it's on the website! Like I said, you can call Sal and he will help you. He MIGHT remember me- fastdriver from CT with the LEMON Chrysler 300M!


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