# Bad Brakes On Our Cars?



## xczar (May 19, 2013)

Have a 2013 Eco with 24k on it. Been noticing a vibration at higher speed braking, about 55 mph and up. I`m well aware of rotors doing this when they are warped. But, at 24k, could they be shot already? I haven't had the time to pull the wheels yet, thought the car was just inspected in PA where the brakes are closely inspected.

I remember not long ago a fellow here had brake issues and his dealer gave him a hard time about fixing them. Just wondered if this is a same issue?


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

I doubt it is the same problem and I would not worry about warping yet. Your front brakes may be getting hot, doing all the work since your rear drums are not adjusted correctly. This could cause them to vibrate. You should get to at least 35K-40 K on your front pads. Have you adjusted your rear drums yet. Most all of our cars with drum brakes are poorly adjusted from the factory. See XR's how to: Adjusting rear brakes http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/153-brakes-suspension/6485-how-adjust-rear-drum-brakes.html Your front brakes may be Adjust your rear drums and see if the vibration stops.

Let us know if that helps.


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## Dragonsys (May 27, 2013)

Rotors can be warped with less than 10 miles on them, it just has to do with heat. If you are in stop & go traffic, the rotors will heat up due to the constant use, then if you hit a water puddle, they will get cooled off quickly, this will cause them to warp. This is just one example.

However, if they were warped, you would feel it at any speed.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Posted this on Cruze brakes. Even with plated pad holders on the front disc brakes, rust builds up on the inside of those clips that jams the pads. If you have a jammed pad, will rub against the rotor over heating it causing warping. Honda and Toyota were using these clips, was not a good idea for exactly the same reason.

If one pad is wearing a lot more than the other one, you have jammed pads.

Brake adjustment has nothing to do with vibrations, but sure causes a low brake pedal.

"All the dealer did was swap out the old rusty calipers, get tired of moaning so decided to finish the job myself. Did request new pad holders, but was turned down. So soaked the old one in hydrochloric acid and painted them with 900*F caliper paint. This what they now look like. 



Heck, this is a daily driver, if doing a restoration, would have polished everything with 17 coats of lacquer. Did screw in the piston a half a turn to finally get clicks when operating the parking brake again. This took up the clearance. Used the vacuum method to bleed the brakes, got out more air bubbles.

Like I use to say, if you want to do anything yourself, have to do it alone or something like this. Then elected to do the same thing, but took some before photos.



Pad backing plated are painted with rust bubbles underneath, you can see on the clips, this is where this paint ended up. Then lots of rust inside of the pad holders. With the clips attached, leaves a space where salt can gather. These are the front plated pad holders.

The combination of these three factors result in jammed pads that cannot self center, took a block of wood and a hammer to get these pads out. After a good cleaning, painting, and using Permatex anti-seize as a the lubricant, could easily slide in the pads with my fingers. This is the way its suppose to be, and learned a long time agao, anti-seize is the very best lubricant that last for years. That black brake grease is worthless. Also found improperly torqued bolts, wasn't happy to find this, a screw was ready to all out. 

I did not have a full pedal when I left the dealer, but got one now, did request just to give me the new calipers and would do it myself.

Guess the way that saying goes, if you want a job done right, have to do it yourself. This is the end of a 2 1/2 month story."

Still not the end of my story, still have some air in the system, only way to get around this is to get my hands on a GM Tech2 scanner with the ABS module. So I can switch on the ABS pump to properly bleed the brakes. No longer have access to the ABS pump on this Cruze.


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

-Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths

Here is a good read on rotor "warpage". 

Rotors don't warp themselves. It's when pad material and/or rust gets dispersed unevenly on the rotor surface. 

If the rotor was truly warped, machining would be useless because you only machine the face. The hat would also be warped and would not fit onto the hub exactly right any longer. 

Brake pulsation is often not something that can be caught with a visual inspection either unless the rotor had very obvious hot spots on it.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I love the brakes on my ctd. Stops on a dime every time. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

terrible brakes on my car to say the very least...ever since day one as soon as I come to a stop ( rolling at 5km ) they "surge" almost like a slight bump nothing serious but very annoying. I took a break from the cruze but a brake kit has always been in the works.....it got to the point where I am really frustrated and don't have anytime for dealer games. I go to my dealer for recalls.....and that is the only thing :grin:


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Stepdaughter came home this weekend with my old 04 Cavalier with a 140 K miles on it now. Brakes on this car even with more road salt in Milwaukee are still reliable and have been troublefree for me for years on this car.

GM finally got it right on this car, then just had to change it. Looks like on this Cruze, doing a brake job is going back to a yearly job. Looking at the rear drums in the shop manual, went right back to what they were using about twenty years ago. Don't these guys even look at history?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I changed my front rotors and pads already; they were bad and resurfaced by the dealer at something under 10k (6? 8? Don't remember) and then recently got on my nerves so much again they were changed at 25. 

The front discs are quite small for what is a heavy car. One stop hauling it down from high speed will shake em like crazy. 

Centric premium rotors and Akebono ceramic pads - I'm quite happy with the combination.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I haven't had a issue with my Eco's brakes at just over 91k miles on the OEM stuff. I have had the drums properly adjusted from day 3 of owning the car, and adjust them at least twice a year. 

I'd adjust the rear drums, then go find an empty stretch of road to re-bed the brakes. 5-6 hard (not quite engaging the ABS) slowdowns in a row from 50 mph to 20 mph, and then drive gently using the brakes as little as possible for the next 10 minutes to cool them down. The brakes should stink after about the third stop, and you'll smell them a little after getting back.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

At 56K miles my brakes are still working like new. I had the rear drums adjusted at about 1500 miles and haven't touched them since, but I also backup two or three times a day. I have had to make a couple of hard stops, including a panic stop when I was cut off at 65 MPH and never had a problem. I also tend to not use my brakes as I attempt to "drive without brakes" for fuel efficiency. No pulsing or inconsistent braking when I do use them, regardless of how hard I'm on them.


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

Changed the oil yesterday on our car with 24K and pulled the front rotors off to inspect for corrosion/delamination on the back side of the rotors. LH rotor had signs of material transfer on the inboard side a little heavier than I'd like to have seen but still OK, scuffed up with a 3" 80 grit pad for a non-directional finish. 

What I didn't like was some of the caliper slide pins did not slide easily. Re-greased all pins and boot seals. Guess I will have to keep an eye on these.


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## BowtieGuy (Jan 4, 2013)

At 25k miles my brakes still feel like new. No pulsing or inconsistent braking here either.


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

We have 62k on our ECO and have had NO issues with the brakes. Except the pedal has always felt like stepping on a tomatoe. I have never adjusted the drums though...probably should.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Depends on your driving conditions. That said, the rear drums are guaranteed to be improperly adjusted, causing excessive front brake use and premature wear/warping. I'm going on 42,500 miles with the OE front brakes, and the only pulsation I get is from the rear drums, which were not correctly machined from the factory. Rather pathetic. There is also a TSB for this issue, where GM will replace both sets of shoes and the rear passenger drum only if you come in complaining that there is rear end pulsating. Follow the thread for adjusting your rear drums if you haven't already.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

30 Ounce said:


> We have 62k on our ECO and have had NO issues with the brakes. Except the pedal has always felt like stepping on a tomatoe. I have never adjusted the drums though...probably should.


That is caused by two things. 

1. The poorly adjusted rear drums
2. The way the fluid is filled from the factory. The brake fluid is not bled. They place a machine on the reservoir, suck out the air to create a vacuum then fill in brake fluid to fill that vacuum. Using this method, you get a "good enough" result for most people, but ultimately mushy brakes as it is impossible to get all of the air out of the system, and air being compressible will cause the brakes to feel like sponges. Bleeding the brakes will drastically improve brake pedal feel. There is a thread on this in the how-to library section, including a thread for bleeding the clutch (which you should do at the same time if you have a manual).


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Shop manual gives three ways to bleed the brakes, sequence for bleeding is always the same, RR, FL, RL, FR, and always keeping the reservoir full.

First is the assistant method, step on the brake pedal, tells you pedal is down, they hold it while you open the bleeder, than close it before the assistant releases the pedal, Count to 15 seconds, and keep on repeating this under pure fluid comes out. Use a clear plastic hose connected to the bleeder and pour into a container.

Second method uses a sealed container with two tubes on the lid, one to the bleeder the second to a hand operated vacuum pump. Pump the vacuum pump until you get a vacuum, around 20"/Hg, open the bleeder and watch that clear plastic hose until bubble free fluid comes out for each wheel following the above sequence. This is the method I used on my Cruze as was alone.

The third method is the best with ABS and have been doing this for years, KOEO, hot wire the ABS pump motor with the proper polarity, and follow the same sequence again, also keeping the reservoir full. In about five or less seconds will get clear fluid as the pump is doing the work to get all the air out. But the GM method is to use a $5,600.00 GMTech2 scanner with an ABS module attached to switch on the pump.

But this is the only way on the Cruze as there is positively no access to the ABS pump motor leads. Using the vacuum pump raised the pedal considerable, but I still know there is some air in the system, pedal is not as firm as it use to be. Dealer used the reservoir vacuum method so he told me, but I requested the ABS pump activation method. Did ask them several years ago if I could borrow their scanner overnight, answer was no, could ask again, but feel I would get the same answer.

See several aftermarket scanners are finally showing ABS codes, but none so far with that ABS pump enable. Kind of tees me off with no access to the ABS motor leads. 

Another method that worked fine, like on a 1937 Olds, was the gravity method, just open all four bleeders and pour in fluid in the reservoir, then close them.


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

Just to clarify, I don't have any issues with how the brakes work. 
Decided to pull the rotors to have a look and found the caliper slides not to my liking.


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## 305cruzer (Aug 10, 2014)

At 2500 miles my rear brake drums started thumping. After an adjustment they were still bad so they fully replaced the rear drums and shoes. Three trips to the dealer and two rental cars later they're good, for now.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

O4 Cavalier was using this huge U shaped brake spring that assured the adjuster was working properly.










But for whatever reason, do not ask me why, they went back to these tiny springs that GM used for years with constant problems.









With these weak springs, the slightest bit of rust on the backing plate, coupling to the wheel cylinder, and the lower anchor would prevent the shoes from returning so self adjustment was no longer possible. Would only use shoes that were plated to help prevent rust. Would remove the backing plates for cleaning and a fresh coat of paint, but plating would be superior. Learned Permatex anti-seize was the best lubricant, mainly to help retard rust.

When they went to this large spring, granted, took muscle to put it on, wasn't nearly the problem. Should have stuck with it, but again, don't feel these kids have any experience.

So you wonder why you have problems?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Furthermore, the entire northern US is using road salt, seen brakes rusted so bad, even applying full pressure to the brake pedal with the drums removed would not break the shoes free.

Sure don't see the automotive majors complaining on this, and since they are not, to produce brakes that will work reliably in this environment. Major argument with my first dealer on my rear badly rusted calipers that would not adjust, said its the road salt causing my problems. Not the fact that these calipers were never plated. 

Was a time in this country, road salt was never used, when bringing this issue up, their argument was no place to put the snow, but was means to get rid of it before salt came around.

For the rest of us, we are in the middle of this battle. Not a good position to be in. Was practically a three month battle on my part to have these rusty rear disc calipers replaced. Guess I eventually wore them out.


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## AndyK (Jul 28, 2014)

Glad I have 4 wheel discs after reading this thread! :go:


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

AndyK said:


> Glad I have 4 wheel discs after reading this thread! :go:


Are yours plated? Mine are, now. Didn't come from the factory this way.


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## AndyK (Jul 28, 2014)

NickD said:


> Are yours plated? Mine are, now. Didn't come from the factory this way.


What, the calipers??


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## Killersurf (Mar 14, 2021)

mcg75 said:


> -Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths
> 
> Here is a good read on rotor "warpage".
> 
> ...


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