# Sticky  Oil Pump Pick Up Seal



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

This is to create a stickied thread dedicated to the rubber seal that rests between the metal oil pump mounted on the engine block and the plastic pick up tube that descends into the oil pan.

This seal hardens with time and use. Loosing its pliability and causing the oil pump to draw small amounts of air into the oiling system. Thereby aerating the pressurized oil supply and leading to catastrophic failure at the crankshaft bearings and elsewhere.

This oil pump pick up seal is a common failure point on all 2.0 VM Motori diesel engines. Including the RPO LUZ engine in our 2014-15 Cruze CTDs.

The seal is a very inexpensive part. But requires labor time to replace as the oil pan must be dropped.

There is very little to no advanced warning of this seal’s failure. Once it fails it is often too late for the engine. Should you ever receive a low oil pressure warning, immediately stop the engine and have the vehicle towed to service for replacement of this seal.

Given the critical nature of this seal, it is recommended that it be replaced proactively. Certainly if your CTD is no longer covered by warranty - and you plan to keep your CTD running.

Given the rarity of this engine in North America, knowledge of this seal and its weakness is very limited. However, this engine is quite popular throughout Europe, where a broad knowledge base exists in this regard. There it is reported that the failure often occurs on cold start up. Some Europeans consider this seal a wear item and replace it every few years.

Among our cruzetalk community there are two known engine failures blamed on oiling. Initially they were thought to be related to EGR contamination of the oil. But now it would seem likely that this seal was at fault.

It certainly appears to be a time bomb ticking inside our engines. Especially for those with long-term plans. Fortunately, the part is inexpensive and its replacement not overly onerous.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Are we able to pull the oil pan without lifting the engine up off the subframe? Is imminent failure noticeable via any sort of oil leak, or is this park fully encapsulated within the oil pan (I presume not, based on it being between the oil pump and block)? Does the new seal have any sort of improvement that prevents it from happening again (or does use of a different oil potentially help it retain its flexibility?)

This sounds like valve seals, or a SBC rear main seal basically being something that _will_ fail...except those don't generally lead to catastrophic failure, just oil leaks/burning.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Are we able to pull the oil pan without lifting the engine up off the subframe? Is imminent failure noticeable via any sort of oil leak, or is this park fully encapsulated within the oil pan (I presume not, based on it being between the oil pump and block)? Does the new seal have any sort of improvement that prevents it from happening again (or does use of a different oil potentially help it retain its flexibility?)
> 
> This sounds like valve seals, or a SBC rear main seal basically being something that _will_ fail...except those don't generally lead to catastrophic failure, just oil leaks/burning.


@boraz has found some videos from Europe that demonstrate the seal and its replacement.

I will repost them here:


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Are we able to pull the oil pan without lifting the engine up off the subframe? Is imminent failure noticeable via any sort of oil leak, or is this park fully encapsulated within the oil pan (I presume not, based on it being between the oil pump and block)? Does the new seal have any sort of improvement that prevents it from happening again (or does use of a different oil potentially help it retain its flexibility?)
> 
> This sounds like valve seals, or a SBC rear main seal basically being something that _will_ fail...except those don't generally lead to catastrophic failure, just oil leaks/burning.


k

@Tomko had the right idea, but wrong execution

your exact questions are answered in the other thread 









Teardown of Cruze CTD engine


I recently watch a Russian YouTube video (English subtitles) explaining the flaws in the Opel 2.0 CTDI engine. Is this the same engine Chevy used in the Gen1 CTD Cruze?




www.cruzetalk.com





the replacement of the seal is a 2-8hr job depending on your abilities....totally doable on the side of the road with <$100 of tools (get your tea and sweets together and watch the videos)

if you can do a timing belt, you can do this **** the transmission part looks to be the hardest/cringey part....cuz you gotta drill the side of the trans to get to two bolts

there are also two mechanical connectors available on the aftermarket to address the failings of this seal

lots of them failing in europe 60,000 miles and up (same motor, same part number)

the seal is the same youre replacing, no improvement

why does it wear out? conjecture says fuel contamination...but who knows?? fuel contamination from unfinished regens, too many regens, too much idling, leaky injectors, etc...


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

@Tomko we'll get this thread straightened out and cleaned up over the next lil bit :h5:

for kicks i googled the 1.6l in the gen2 diesel cruze.....doesnt have this set up, at all....so theyre good

but OMG the timing chain failures theyre having in europe, you dont wanna know how bad a job that is.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

does anybody have access to actual fsm for instruct on dropping the pan, specific sealant to use on the seal, oil pan, etcc...tq values etc???

also be curious what actual dealer rate is to re and re the pan....vauxhaul forum said 2.5 hrs

avg home mech on the forums are saying 4hrs to do


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I hope the 2.0 is easy as take 10+ pan bolts off, don’t spill oil or better yet do it during oil change and drain, replace seal and done. Why can’t cars be easy again.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

from reading the forums, the people that have got the low oil pressure warning at startup, stopped....and replaced the seal, the motors have been fine.

there are a number that got no warning, either cuz of software change to not warn or the oil pressure seemed fine to the sensor even though it was just a mixture of air and oil, not pressurized oil, so it was a slower longer lack of lubrication that wasnt noticeable


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Also plastic pick up tube? Are you ducking kidding me.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> Also plastic pick up tube? Are you ducking kidding me.


intake manifold is plastic


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

also need to be rational

we've had two probable failures of this on this board

pretty sure we've had same amount of failures timing belt wise and transmission wise...is your engine gonna pack in tmmw? no

is that seal gonna fail at some point, truly believe so....so lets just be proactive....less than $50 and an afternoon DIY for peace of mind, or $400-$1000 for someone else to do it and keep motoring, still cheap driving....the resale price of these cars isnt great, ill have more money pocket driving it another 5yrs vs unloading it


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> intake manifold is plastic


Is it? I thought ours was aluminum? That said: most are plastic anymore.

However, I would be slightly leery about the pickup being plastic _inside_ the engine. Gotta pick just the right plastic that won't become brittle over time and break.

Definitely would like to see the FSM procedure, though.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> intake manifold is plastic


I’m not happy about that at all either. Plastic cracks as it ages. For those of us who keep our cars 20+ years it rears it’s ugly head.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Is it? I thought ours was aluminum? That said: most are plastic anymore.
> 
> However, I would be slightly leery about the pickup being plastic _inside_ the engine. Gotta pick just the right plastic that won't become brittle over time and break.
> 
> Definitely would like to see the FSM procedure, though.


ive seen no failures of the pick up tube in the oil pan from the reading ive done (so far)...im a little concerned aboot the solid aluminum aftermarket piece that bridges the oil pump and pickup tube, as far as transferring vibrations and cracking, but no failures of that yet either


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> I’m not happy about that at all either. Plastic cracks as it ages. For those of us who keep our cars 20+ years it rears it’s ugly head.


especially with egr

yep, i got experience with early miatas and plastic radiators, lol....


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> ive seen no failures of the pick up tube in the oil pan from the reading ive done (so far)...im a little concerned aboot the solid aluminum aftermarket piece that bridges the oil pump and pickup tube, as far as transferring vibrations and cracking, but no failures of that yet either


None yet but even the oldest USA diesel isn’t all that old relatively speaking. 20yr mark just you wait I bet plastic crap will start to fail under the heat. I’d love to hear the gm engineer that made this call for plastic inside the engine.
With modern diesel tech the internal vibration shouldn’t be as bad.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)




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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Funny how the smallest of parts can be the biggest assholes in the severity of problems they cause.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Funny how the smallest of parts can be the biggest assholes in the severity of problems they cause.


See space shuttle Challenger


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

boraz said:


> See space shuttle Challenger


This was exactly my first thought.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Tomko said:


> This was exactly my first thought.


on my 3 jeeps, the oil filter mount is bolted the block, and o-ring seals the connection....totally common leak....o-rings/seals dont last forever

my front load washer, seal goes, water leaks into the bearings....$60 for new bearing and seal and 5+hrs of labor (did it myself) to replace or $1000 for new washer...did mine 5yrs ago, still goin....bought exact model used for $100 to use for parts down the line to keep her runnin


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

OK - So how many people on these boards have actually had the seal go bad on a North American 2014 or newer Cruze Diesel?

I really don't count a foreign car from years gone by because you don't know if the seal is different material on this car or if different fuel or oil qualities played into it. I've been here 4 years and this is the first I'm hearing about it and we've had many guys go well over 150k miles.

A couple years back, under warranty, I had GM re-seal the oil pan. I can't find my work order receipt but I'm wondering if they renewed the seal at that time (based on book notes, etc).


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> OK - So how many people on these boards have actually had the seal go bad on a North American 2014 or newer Cruze Diesel?
> 
> I really don't count a foreign car from years gone by because you don't know if the seal is different material on this car or if different fuel or oil qualities played into it. I've been here 4 years and this is the first I'm hearing about it and we've had many guys go well over 150k miles.
> 
> A couple years back, under warranty, I had GM re-seal the oil pan. I can't find my work order receipt but I'm wondering if they renewed the seal at that time (based on book notes, etc).


It's the same motor

It's the same part number

It's currently happening to the cars in europe

In Europe at start up they get a low oil pressure warning cuz it's sucking air instead of oil

They shut the motor off and replace to seal, same part number same material as ours, then the car is perfect again

It's 10000% the same situation that WILL happen to our cars if and when the seal gets compromised

That's all known and facts

What's unknown is whether our cars have the same programming to warn aboot low oil pressure and same parameters

The two cars on this forum that died cuz of oil pressure, it's not been PROVEN the seal failed, nor has it been disproven

Maybe they had bad motors to begin with, maybe wrong oil or ran it too long

Maybe those cars had lots of regen issues nor injector leaks that thinned out the oil causing bearing damage or maybe the fuel in oil ruined the rubber seal

There's lots of facts AND lots of conjecture involved in all this


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So, to confirm - the "low pressure" warning only seems to pop up right on start up? I'd expect the seal works a bit better when everything expands as the engine heats up, compared to a cold engine.

Mainly just as something to make my wife aware/paranoid of - if it's likely to only happen on startup, rather than when she's driving, at least that should not terrify her _as_ much.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> So, to confirm - the "low pressure" warning only seems to pop up right on start up? I'd expect the seal works a bit better when everything expands as the engine heats up, compared to a cold engine.
> 
> Mainly just as something to make my wife aware/paranoid of - if it's likely to only happen on startup, rather than when she's driving, at least that should not terrify her _as_ much.


Yeah I've not seen anything on the euro forums where the warning comes at other times

You're apparently able to restart the engine a couple of times then the light goes out cuz now you're up to pressure, but damage has already been done to some degree

Common sense would say the seal would expand and become softer with heat while running act would function normally

Until next cold start


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

And more perspective, they sold 100,000 of these cars each year over there and the change.org petition aboot the oil seal only has 2500 signatures so it's not YOUR CAR IS DOOMED

It's hey, there's a weak point on the car, learn from others misfortune

Monitor the oil pressure and carry on

Or eliminate the CHANCE by replacing the part

They use the same dexos2 over there, I would think their fuel is better, more regulations, less wild west than usa


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

boraz said:


> And more perspective, they sold 100,000 of these cars each year over there and the change.org petition aboot the oil seal only has 2500 signatures so it's not YOUR CAR IS DOOMED
> 
> It's hey, there's a weak point on the car, learn from others misfortune
> 
> ...


Some years ago I tabulated a total of 16,498 CTDs being sold new in North America between May 2013 and February 2016. So our total production was approximately 17,000.

Our climatic and driving conditions differ from Europe. But as @boraz points out, our fuel is worse. Furthermore, the emissions package on our engines is more demanding than the contemporaneous European models. So consider that our engines are exposed to greater temperature extremes, more traffic, and longer trips.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

One more thing...

Neither @Gator nor @Sygma6 received the low oil pressure warning before their engines grenaded. So it seems as though our LUZ engines may have the one wire oil pressure sensor, rather than the three wire sensor that offers some early warning.

Again, something to contemplate for those off-warranty and risk-managing this seal.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> OK - So how many people on these boards have actually had the seal go bad on a North American 2014 or newer Cruze Diesel?
> 
> I really don't count a foreign car from years gone by because you don't know if the seal is different material on this car or if different fuel or oil qualities played into it. I've been here 4 years and this is the first I'm hearing about it and we've had many guys go well over 150k miles.
> 
> A couple years back, under warranty, I had GM re-seal the oil pan. I can't find my work order receipt but I'm wondering if they renewed the seal at that time (based on book notes, etc).


Mine I got new from dealer 0 miles a 2015. Florida all it’s life and no problems


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Does this job really require drilling the transmission housing in 2 places? Seems a bit risky to me, but maybe I’m just not quite clear from the video exactly how/where it must be drilled. 

Will be interested to hear how this job goes when someone attempts it DIY.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And why? Did they seriously make the oil pan impossible to get off without removing the transmission?

Almost seems like a good reason to purchase an oil pressure gauge for the A-Pillar...


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> And why? Did they seriously make the oil pan impossible to get off without removing the transmission?
> 
> Almost seems like a good reason to purchase an oil pressure gauge for the A-Pillar...


There has to be a way to drop it without drilling. GM doesn’t exactly like telling techs to drill into things.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Just ordered one on Amazon. I'll plan to do this when the timing belt is due for change in one big maintenance effort. The seal was less than $13.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> There has to be a way to drop it without drilling. GM doesn’t exactly like telling techs to drill into things.


That's what I was thinking...there's gotta be a way...usually oil pans are designed to come off without _too much_ additional work.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> That's what I was thinking...there's gotta be a way...usually oil pans are designed to come off without _too much_ additional work.


If I still worked at Chevy I could look up a pan replacement.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Rivergoer said:


> Does this job really require drilling the transmission housing in 2 places? Seems a bit risky to me, but maybe I’m just not quite clear from the video exactly how/where it must be drilled.
> 
> Will be interested to hear how this job goes when someone attempts it DIY.


We don't know yet

The guys with the autos that did drill holes don't specify what auto they had, also there was one comment somewhere where a guy was able to do it without drilling

Someone has to go under our car and count the bolts they see, then we KNOW


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> That's what I was thinking...there's gotta be a way...usually oil pans are designed to come off without _too much_ additional work.


Yeah and usually trans filters are easy to change


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Like I said somewhere

If someone has access to fsm, pan replacement would be described and shop hours for it


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

After googling I found out other cars have similar oil pick up tube inside the pan as well like corvette ls7, and there's a special tool so you don't crush the gasket when you Bolt up the pan


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Rivergoer said:


> Does this job really require drilling the transmission housing in 2 places? Seems a bit risky to me, but maybe I’m just not quite clear from the video exactly how/where it must be drilled.
> 
> Will be interested to hear how this job goes when someone attempts it DIY.


Man, I can't imagine it did. Remember, I had my oil pan dropped by a dealer and resealed. I see no damage anywhere that indicates they had to do something like that. The only thing out of the ordinary that I recall them saying is that they needed to order a 'special tool' to complete the job. They didn't say what it was or what it was for. The only thing I can think of is that the bolts look like a weird torx-style bit. Maybe they required a special bit? I don't know.

I've looked at the oil pan bolts pretty intensely, and other than the 2 rubber plugs you have to pull out to gain access to the bolts on the transmission side it looks pretty straight forward. Maybe that's what they mean on the European cars, maybe they didn't have the rubber plugs? It looks like it's doable. There's just the exhaust portion that needs to be unbolted, then remove the bolts and drop the pan.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> Man, I can't imagine it did. Remember, I had my oil pan dropped by a dealer and resealed. I see no damage anywhere that indicates they had to do something like that. The only thing out of the ordinary that I recall them saying is that they needed to order a 'special tool' to complete the job. They didn't say what it was or what it was for. The only thing I can think of is that the bolts look like a weird torx-style bit. Maybe they required a special bit? I don't know.
> 
> I've looked at the oil pan bolts pretty intensely, and other than the 2 rubber plugs you have to pull out to gain access to the bolts on the transmission side it looks pretty straight forward. Maybe that's what they mean on the European cars, maybe they didn't have the rubber plugs? It looks like it's doable. There's just the exhaust portion that needs to be unbolted, then remove the bolts and drop the pan.


150 mm long t40 torx bit to get the hidden bolts

Gotta pull driveshaft to get at the part thats bolted to the pan

One guy did it twice, once moving the driveshaft outta the way, second time removing completely
He said it was faster easier pulling the shaft out completely


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, I think it'll definitely be worth seeing the factory procedure, if we can find it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I did just find this on "Auto Repair Source" (this did specify as being for the 2.0L):










For comparison, the labor time for the 1.8L and 1.4L is listed as 2.7 for "MOTOR Time"...

Couldn't find an actual procedure, though.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Dude on euro forum said gm book time was 2.5 hrs

But also the seal needs some goop on it and it needs time to set before engine running...dunno if their goop they show is available over here under same name


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

The 3 nuts where the bottom of the dpf meet the flex pipe...I had issues with them when I did my delete, one was hard to reach and I destroyed the shape of it...but I'm in rust area


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> Dude on euro forum said gm book time was 2.5 hrs
> 
> But also the seal needs some goop on it and it needs time to set before engine running...dunno if their goop they show is available over here under same name


By goop I’d imagine engine assembly grease?


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

So pulling the right front driveshaft is required? That's interesting because around 10k miles after I had my oil pan re-sealed I had a knocking sound from the front end and they found it was a bad right front driveshaft. Under warranty of course but I wonder if they caused the problem?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> So pulling the right front driveshaft is required? That's interesting because around 10k miles after I had my oil pan re-sealed I had a knocking sound from the front end and they found it was a bad right front driveshaft. Under warranty of course but I wonder if they caused the problem?


All the videos show this

Otherwise they can't get access to some bolts


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I think we need some good imagery underneath to make sure all that applies to our application. It probably does, but it's possible we're worrying about something that won't affect us.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I think we need some good imagery underneath to make sure all that applies to our application. It probably does, but it's possible we're worrying about something that won't affect us.


May need to use a crows foot or a flexible extension to reach a bolt instead. The guy in the video did the pan by taking out the shaft but that doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

*Maybe those cars had lots of regen issues nor injector leaks that thinned out the oil causing bearing damage or maybe the fuel in oil ruined the rubber seal*

This might be a good reason to not run your oil for 10 or 15k miles.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

15cruzediesel said:


> *Maybe those cars had lots of regen issues nor injector leaks that thinned out the oil causing bearing damage or maybe the fuel in oil ruined the rubber seal*
> 
> This might be a good reason to not run your oil for 10 or 15k miles.


But the bottle says extended mile intervals!!


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

15cruzediesel said:


> *Maybe those cars had lots of regen issues nor injector leaks that thinned out the oil causing bearing damage or maybe the fuel in oil ruined the rubber seal*
> 
> This might be a good reason to not run your oil for 10 or 15k miles.


Exactly, even if the oil additive package holds up 20,000 miles, you're still holding onto all those contaminants for that long. Draining the oil clears that stuff out, it's not just about adding new detergent.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Not to mention the oil dilution caused by the fuel.

I was planning to go longer intervals now that we're running Euro L, but now I'm not so sure...


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Not to mention the oil dilution caused by the fuel.
> 
> I was planning to go longer intervals now that we're running Euro L, but now I'm not so sure...


For how cheap the euro L is at Walmart why risk it?


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

pandrad61 said:


> For how cheap the euro L is at Walmart why risk it?


I've ran the stuff for the past 100k miles in mine and I'm sending my next oil change to Blackstone, so we'll see how everything is holding up. Do we have a thread for people to post them in or are they just getting put in randomly?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> I've ran the stuff for the past 100k miles in mine and I'm sending my next oil change to Blackstone, so we'll see how everything is holding up. Do we have a thread for people to post them in or are they just getting put in randomly?


Good in ya for sending it in. May be smart to send a clean sample too. This way you have a before and after X miles.


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

MP81 said:


> However, I would be slightly leery about the pickup being plastic _inside_ the engine.


How about the new 3.0L I6 diesel in the trucks that have a belt driven oil pump? 
150k mile service life and you have to R&R the trans to replace.


pandrad61 said:


> GM doesn’t exactly like telling techs to drill into things.


When I was a tech the GM procedure to R&R a engine from a Astro van was to sawzall the radiator core support. GM supplied two reinforcements to bolt it back together. IIRC, in the 70s on the F-bodies it was procedure to cut the inner fender to R&R fan blower motor.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Diesel Dan said:


> How about the new 3.0L I6 diesel in the trucks that have a belt driven oil pump?
> 150k mile service life and you have to R&R the trans to replace.
> 
> When I was a tech the GM procedure to R&R a engine from a Astro van was to sawzall the radiator core support. GM supplied two reinforcements to bolt it back together. IIRC, in the 70s on the F-bodies it was procedure to cut the inner fender to R&R fan blower motor.


IIRC the 3.0 has to come out to do timing chain


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> For how cheap the euro L is at Walmart why risk it?


Because I am lazy...and somehow our oil changes always end up being in the middle of the god **** winter.



BDCCruze said:


> I've ran the stuff for the past 100k miles in mine and I'm sending my next oil change to Blackstone, so we'll see how everything is holding up. Do we have a thread for people to post them in or are they just getting put in randomly?


Thanks for the reminder - that was my plan next oil change, since this is the first non-dealer oil change - want to see how it looks, and how far I can run it.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

I've always gone 0% and then couple thousand kms after


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Is anybody gonna try actually removing the faulty seal and going with the aftermarket solution? I'm more inclined to remove it and try something else.

I like the Aluminum adapter w/ o-rings but the brass thingy would also be an option.









Car Engine Gaskets & Seals for sale | eBay


Buy Car Engine Gaskets & Seals and get the best deals at the lowest prices on eBay! Great Savings & Free Delivery / Collection on many items



www.ebay.co.uk













Insignia A20DT* oil pressure pick up gasket seal (adapter) | eBay


Custom made adapter for solve low oil pressure problem with Opel A20DT engines. This adapter solves the oil pressure problem. With this custom seal adapter you don't need to change OEM pick up gasket any more.



www.ebay.co.uk


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Is anybody gonna try actually removing the faulty seal and going with the aftermarket solution? I'm more inclined to remove it and try something else.
> 
> I like the Aluminum adapter w/ o-rings but the brass thingy would also be an option.
> 
> ...


I ordered the one with o rings

Realistically not doin it til spring summer, I don't have a shop and don't like working on cars at -40 unless I have to


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> I ordered the one with o rings
> 
> Realistically not doin it til spring summer, I don't have a shop and don't like working on cars at -40 unless I have to


Why the o ring vs non? Wouldn’t the o ring version still be liable to have it break apart and get stuck in the pan.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> Why the o ring vs non? Wouldn’t the o ring version still be liable to have it break apart and get stuck in the pan.


if you watch the video of the adapter that doesnt have o rings.....you still use the seal, you use the adapter in conjuction with the seal and sealant....the seal IS the issue, doesnt make sense keep using one if its the issue

the o ring one doesnt use the seal, the o rings seal off the physical connection, the adapter is taller, looks to be a more complete connection, im thinking i would use sealant as well

again, its unknown why the seal fails....fuel contamination sorta makes sense and seem to be the leading culprit IMO....i shouldnt need to worry aboot fuel contamination after replacing the seal, as i am deleted and dont have any leaking injectors....so the adapter may be pointless, but seems worth the risk


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I wonder if city/highway has any impact on it - I'd expect most people in Europe drive a shitload of city. Maybe short trips where the car doesn't get up to temp?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> I wonder if city/highway has any impact on it - I'd expect most people in Europe drive a shitload of city. Maybe short trips where the car doesn't get up to temp?


thats the entire point, their driving habits leads to more regens, but counter that with they have better fuel (i would bet money on it)

but....im 73% hwy miles, and my dpf was 'full' according to the dealer and needed a new one out of pocket, how the frick does that happen, im literally top percentile of hwy miles for the car, sub 5% idle time, poster child for driving the car as it should be driven

@Gator was even more hwy centric, and boom goes the motor due to lack of lubrication...perhaps because of this seal, perhaps not....its a reasonable possibility


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

boraz said:


> thats the entire point, their driving habits leads to more regens, but counter that with they have better fuel (i would bet money on it)
> 
> but....im 73% hwy miles, and my dpf was 'full' according to the dealer and needed a new one out of pocket, how the frick does that happen, im literally top percentile of hwy miles for the car, sub 5% idle time, poster child for driving the car as it should be driven
> 
> @Gator was even more hwy centric, and boom goes the motor due to lack of lubrication...perhaps because of this seal, perhaps not....its a reasonable possibility


The Russian video citing the faults of the JTD 2.0 also said the pressure relief valve gets stuck open and the variable displacement pump will not respond to a drop in oil pressure. It seems there are multiple ways that the lubrication system can be compromised and it’s marginal anyway which leads to the engine failing. Many of these faults are corrected with the later updates CDTI engines.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> if you watch the video of the adapter that doesnt have o rings.....you still use the seal, you use the adapter in conjuction with the seal and sealant....the seal IS the issue, doesnt make sense keep using one if its the issue
> 
> the o ring one doesnt use the seal, the o rings seal off the physical connection, the adapter is taller, looks to be a more complete connection, im thinking i would use sealant as well
> 
> again, its unknown why the seal fails....fuel contamination sorta makes sense and seem to be the leading culprit IMO....i shouldnt need to worry aboot fuel contamination after replacing the seal, as i am deleted and dont have any leaking injectors....so the adapter may be pointless, but seems worth the risk


I didn’t see the video since I’ve been on mobile as of late. Doesn’t make sense to make a fix only to reuse the problem part again.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> The Russian video citing the faults of the JTD 2.0 also said the pressure relief valve gets stuck open and the variable displacement pump will not respond to a drop in oil pressure. It seems there are multiple ways that the lubrication system can be compromised and it’s marginal anyway which leads to the engine failing. Many of these faults are corrected with the later updates CDTI engines.


A variable pump seems a great idea for efficiency but yah a big risk. Any way to swap to a simple normal pump if you’re in there?


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Diesel4Ever said:


> The Russian video citing the faults of the JTD 2.0 also said the pressure relief valve gets stuck open and the variable displacement pump will not respond to a drop in oil pressure. It seems there are multiple ways that the lubrication system can be compromised and it’s marginal anyway which leads to the engine failing. Many of these faults are corrected with the later updates CDTI engines.


yes

but also many many many ppl that got low oil pressure warnings at startup changed the seal and warnings went away, so in their cases the seal was the issue

and the seal is the same in our engine


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

But it also sounds like we don't have an oil pressure sensor that is capable of providing early warnings?


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> But it also sounds like we don't have an oil pressure sensor that is capable of providing early warnings?


I’d think GM would make it so we had early warning. This way it helps reduce their warranty claims and amount.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I would think so too, but it sounded like there wasn't enough wires or something? I would think it should be able to tell unless it's like the old idiot light in my '81, where it's just one wire and basically only tells you if you don't have any oil pressure at all. 

But don't worry, they gave us a clock that never works.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> But it also sounds like we don't have an oil pressure sensor that is capable of providing early warnings?


possibly


pandrad61 said:


> I’d think GM would make it so we had early warning. This way it helps reduce their warranty claims and amount.


unless the failure is unlikely to happen within warranty term


----------



## Detrious (Jul 5, 2017)

I haven't physically looked at the oil pressure sensor yet to confirm but the part number for it on rock auto and gm parts direct is 55573719 which is a three wire sensor, so we should in theory have earlier detection of low oil pressure instead of the one wire no early warning in the older model engines.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

It sure looks like the diesel has a low oil pressure light per the manual.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> possibly
> 
> unless the failure is unlikely to happen within warranty term


Now that’s thinking like a bean counter.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

The oil pump is positive displacement meaning it will pump air and liquid. If it was pumping air, or aerated oil it would not trigger low pressure warning on the dash. The sensor would be tricked and your engine would still die.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Diesel4Ever said:


> The oil pump is positive displacement meaning it will pump air and liquid. If it was pumping air, or aerated oil it would not trigger low pressure warning on the dash. The sensor would be tricked and your engine would still die.


I totally understand that concept 

But how does that explain the problem (low oil pressure warning) Goin away by replacing the seal?

Thats documented, also documented is those that didn't stop it in time or ignored if, or got no warning

Some that got the warning would restart and the warning went away

Some believed the pump finally got full of oil instead of air/oil and then carried on

There were only a few that the motors went out while driving, it was more common to get the noise of death at start up, warning or not

Someone somewhere mentioned software was charged to not notify of oil pressure low, or parameter change or something, but who knows?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So, would an actual oil pressure gauge (probably teed-in somewhere) help? Or do we think we'd see a message. Any way to fault out the sensor connector and check?

I'd probably have no issue rocking that and a boost/vac in the A-Pillar (ZZP pillar, of course, because of the perfect match), but I would need to tell my wife to watch that gauge every startup...make sure it's not super low after startup...and gaugesssss.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

EOP, engine oil pressure, top left. I watch mine every startup. I also log lowest and highest. See bottom pic.

Anything other than oil pressing against the sensor diaphragm will cause a low pressure condition. Once that seal is compromised two things occur. Low oil pressure and low or no volume of oil flowing to the important parts.

If this is a problem that gets incrementally worse over time I would think oil samples would show bearing material early on when it begins to fail but it seems to me it is more like a light switch giving way suddenly causing catastrophic failures.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

I run million dollar equipment at work, we don't look at oil pressure nor for fix bad gauges lol

Fire it up and put it in the ketchup

If it Sounds good, it's good


----------



## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/saab/comments/axx4c8


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, Biscan/Torque Pro is on my phone, so my wife wouldn't be able to use that - nor would she use check her phone if it were on there...a gauge on the A-pillar...maybe. A message on the DIC...she'd definitely see that...probably.

So...if the first revision works with ours...that sounds like it could solve the problem forever. I expect the change was done for cost?


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

> What this o-ring is doing is preventing the oil to go back to the sump and as it gets worn out and deteriorates over the period of 5-7 years and surely after 150.000 km oil slowly drops back into the oil pan.
> 
> The engine oil drips-drops back after some 10 hours of standing still.
> 
> ...


This oil pump check valve is usually on the discharge side of the pump and typically part of the oil filter housing assembly on cartridge type automotive filters.

Can anybody verify that it's on the suction side and part of this o-ring thingy like the reddit post indicates?


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> I run million dollar equipment at work, we don't look at oil pressure nor for fix bad gauges lol
> 
> Fire it up and put it in the ketchup
> 
> If it Sounds good, it's good


You’d go crazy monitoring all the gauges in a 18 wheeler. The newer more expensive ones did cut done a lot of them and simply have idiot lights and warning when things go wrong.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> You’d go crazy monitoring all the gauges in a 18 wheeler. The newer more expensive ones did cut done a lot of them and simply have idiot lights and warning when things go wrong.


18 wheels? thats for quakers

the truck i drive most night is 30 wheels

the truck i drove at the coal mine was 54 wheels


----------



## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

boraz said:


> I run million dollar equipment at work, we don't look at oil pressure nor for fix bad gauges lol
> 
> Fire it up and put it in the ketchup
> 
> If it Sounds good, it's good


dude that's so wrong, in the old days I used to install 3 gauges to monitor 3 vital engine signs:
water temperature, oil pressure and battery health.

Of course oil pressure is so critical to get the right value, so for starters does anybody knows what these EOP values are (engine is already warmed up):
1. at idle speed?
2. at cruising speed (80mph or 128 km/hr and 2,300 rpm)?
3. at median speed (40mph or 60 km/hr) and about 1700 rpm?


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

boraz said:


> 18 wheels? thats for quakers
> 
> the truck i drive most night is 30 wheels
> 
> the truck i drove at the coal mine was 54 wheels


Well we simple folk fear the 20 and up. Not right to tread upon that, only for gods and sages to do.


----------



## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

pacolino said:


> dude that's so wrong, in the old days I used to install 3 gauges to monitor 3 vital engine signs:
> water temperature, oil pressure and battery health.
> 
> Of course oil pressure is so critical to get the right value, so for starters does anybody knows what these EOP values are (engine is already warmed up):
> ...


Mine goes from 20 or so at idle to as high as 60 or so. Oil pressure is linear to engine speed.

When starting it cold it immediately goes above 20 and that is at temp or dead cold.

What I would like to know is what pressure does the ecm consider good enough to turn out the light.

I'm guessing that something less than 10 or 15 so if one was monitoring the oil pressure and it truly is low, low enough to turn out light but in my case, doesn't go to 20 at idle, then I would assume the seal is compromised and I would turn the engine off asap.

I still think it isn't a lack of oil pressure issue but a volume issue and it is indicated by a low pressure value since the car doesn't monitor volume of oil flowing. Still a lot to learn.


----------



## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

15cruzediesel said:


> Mine goes from 20 or so at idle to as high as 60 or so. Oil pressure is linear to engine speed.
> 
> When starting it cold it immediately goes above 20 and that is at temp or dead cold.
> 
> ...


Yes, mine is 22 PSI at idle and 63 PSI at 80 MPH. But sometimes and this is very interesting, I see 36-40 PSI at highway speed of 80 MPH, I don't think this is normal.
I believe GM engineers or GM techs can enlighten us about what EOP value would trigger the low pressure warning. Now the oil flow is one thing and the pressure is a completely different thing.
How do we know that the oil reach top of the engine?


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

I bought the aftermarket adapter thingy w/ viton o-rings from Poland. My cruze has 66K but I'm gonna get it done early as a preventative measure at my next oil change,


----------



## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Okay, people, I found something very very interesting about our unique oil pump design which also answered my question as to why sometimes I read *37 PSI* at 80 MPH (and not 63 PSI which I read most of the time at 80 MPH) on my gauge EOP (engine oil pressure), here is an interesting article about low-pressure oil delivery at high speeds to maximize fuel efficiency:









GM 2.0 Liter I4 Turbo Diesel LUZ Engine


The 2.0-liter I4 Turbo Diesel LUZ is an engine produced by General Motors for use in diesel variants of its vehicles. Part of GM's Family B engine range, the LU




gmauthority.com




; here is an excerpt:

*"Variable-Displacement Oiling System: the variable-flow oiling system helps maximize fuel efficiency with a crankshaft-driven oil pump that matches the oil supply to the engine load. The engine’s variable-flow pump changes its capacity based on demand for oil rather than using energy to pump oil that is not required"*.

Here is an excerpt from another article but for 1.4L engines: 








Feature Spotlight: Chevy Cruze Has Unique Oil Pump That Helps Conserve Fuel


The engineers over at General Motors went through the painstaking efforts to maximize fuel efficiency in the new Chevrolet Cruze. Needless to say, fuel economy




gmauthority.com





*"Reducing the amount of oil in the engine reduces the amount of torque the engine needs to pump the oil. At the same time, the oil needed for lubrication is not removed from the engine. The assistant chief engineer for the 1.4L engine, Mike Katerberg, also explained that this is a “simple, durable, and maintenance-free design” that GM has been using for years in transmissions. Most recently, this has become popular in hybrid vehicles, making it an interesting example of valuable tech filtering down to non-hybrid vehicles with the purpose of improving efficiency." *

So in short it seems that this oil pump delivers oil through the engine at a lower pressure rate while at high speeds to maximize fuel efficiency. Is this okay?!
My question is what if this design is just not right for this application (diesel engine), it may be okay for gassers though but not for diesels, leading the engine to oil starvation?!


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

pacolino said:


> Okay, people, I found something very very interesting about our unique oil pump design which also answered my question as to why sometimes I read *37 PSI* at 80 MPH (and not 63 PSI which I read most of the time at 80 MPH) on my gauge EOP (engine oil pressure), here is an interesting article about low-pressure oil delivery at high speeds to maximize fuel efficiency:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s perfectly fine if set up properly. You don’t need tons of pressure or huge volume at a steady speed low loads. The problem seems to stem from the seal not the design.


----------



## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

pacolino said:


> Okay, people, I found something very very interesting about our unique oil pump design which also answered my question as to why sometimes I read *37 PSI* at 80 MPH (and not 63 PSI which I read most of the time at 80 MPH) on my gauge EOP (engine oil pressure), here is an interesting article about low-pressure oil delivery at high speeds to maximize fuel efficiency:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For the diesel it doesn't say if the pressure changes just that the capacity changes. I take that as the volume of oil needed is less than what the pump is capable of and if the pump can pump less volume it requires less power to spin it.

Pressure is just oils resistance to flow that is regulated by a spring in the pump.

Low pressure doesn't necessarily mean low volume.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

15cruzediesel said:


> For the diesel it doesn't say if the pressure changes just that the capacity changes. I take that as the volume of oil needed is less than what the pump is capable of and if the pump can pump less volume it requires less power to spin it.
> 
> Pressure is just oils resistance to flow that is regulated by a spring in the pump.
> 
> Low pressure doesn't necessarily mean low volume.


One of my first auto lessons. Had a Toyota that even when new just had low pressure high volume and had me worried till I learned mechanics


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

pacolino said:


> Yes, mine is 22 PSI at idle and 63 PSI at 80 MPH. But sometimes and this is very interesting, I see 36-40 PSI at highway speed of 80 MPH, I don't think this is normal.
> I believe GM engineers or GM techs can enlighten us about what EOP value would trigger the low pressure warning. Now the oil flow is one thing and the pressure is a completely different thing.
> How do we know that the oil reach top of the engine?


It is not an old fashioned pump, it has variable flow, and it will lower or increase pressure and flow depending on what the engine load and turbo is doing.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pacolino said:


> Okay, people, I found something very very interesting about our unique oil pump design which also answered my question as to why sometimes I read *37 PSI* at 80 MPH (and not 63 PSI which I read most of the time at 80 MPH) on my gauge EOP (engine oil pressure), here is an interesting article about low-pressure oil delivery at high speeds to maximize fuel efficiency:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


none of that is relevant, its working as designed

replacing the seal fixes the cars that wont start cuz of no oil.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

pandrad61 said:


> It’s perfectly fine if set up properly. You don’t need tons of pressure or huge volume at a steady speed low loads. The problem seems to stem from the seal not the design.


That’s actually not true. If you watch the Russian YT video where they do the tear-down of the 2.0 CDTI engine he says the oil pump can fail to increase oil pressure when required to causing engine failure. If you haven’t watched the video it’s worth it.

My car is at the shop now getting some work done, including dropping the oil pan to install the aftermarket oil pickup o-ring sleeve from Poland and a transmission flush among other things.


----------



## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> That’s actually not true. If you watch the Russian YT video where they do the tear-down of the 2.0 CDTI engine he says the oil pump can fail to increase oil pressure when required to causing engine failure. If you haven’t watched the video it’s worth it.
> 
> My car is at the shop now getting some work done, including dropping the oil pan to install the aftermarket oil pickup o-ring sleeve from Poland and a transmission flush among other things.


let us know how much they charge you for this work. where did you get the oil pickup o-ring sleeve from?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> That’s actually not true. If you watch the Russian YT video where they do the tear-down of the 2.0 CDTI engine he says the oil pump can fail to increase oil pressure when required to causing engine failure. If you haven’t watched the video it’s worth it.
> 
> My car is at the shop now getting some work done, including dropping the oil pan to install the aftermarket oil pickup o-ring sleeve from Poland and a transmission flush among other things.


In my quote I even said “it’s perfectly fine if set up properly” swing as a majority of diesels are doing well I’d say they got it right. Yah a few have had problems but it hasn’t been a huge issue over the many engines made.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

pacolino said:


> let us know how much they charge you for this work. where did you get the oil pickup o-ring sleeve from?


It came from Poland. The eBay link is here in this thread. He has a YouTube video about it here too. It was like $30 USD with shipping which took a few weeks.

It looks like a nice piece. The machining looked good and it had 2 Viton o-rings.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Diesel4Ever said:


> It came from Poland. The eBay link is here in this thread. He has a YouTube video about it here too. It was like $30 USD with shipping which took a few weeks.
> 
> It looks like a nice piece. The machining looked good and it had 2 Viton o-rings.


i bought the same one, waiting for spring to install


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Would like to see a write-up (with pictures) if possible, for the install. Seems pretty straightforward - drain oil, drop tank, remove oil pickup, swap seal, reverse, no?


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Would like to see a write-up (with pictures) if possible, for the install. Seems pretty straightforward - drain oil, drop tank, remove oil pickup, swap seal, reverse, no?


theres literally videos in this thread of it being done

you forgot pulling the driveshaft and the tea and sweets


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> theres literally videos in this thread of it being done
> 
> you forgot pulling the driveshaft and the tea and sweets


That's fine. I like threads with pictures. Just like on blogs these days: I like an actual article instead of "here's a video". Videos are handy - so are step by step instructions.

Oh ****, I forgot about all that **** too.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Back in October 2017 I had my oil pan gasket resealed due to leaking oil. Just checked my workorder and it shows they replaced gasket 55589549 which is the pickup seal. Also shows they replaced 55588013 and 55575125. Gives me a bit of relief.


----------



## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> Back in October 2017 I had my oil pan gasket resealed due to leaking oil. Just checked my workorder and it shows they replaced gasket 55589549 which is the pickup seal. Also shows they replaced 55588013 and 55575125. Gives me a bit of relief.


So GM knew about this issue since 2017 and no recall information has been released since?! ... wow wtf...
Did the stealership provide you with a reason as to why they replaced that specific pickup seal at that time assuming your car was not even 3 years old?


----------



## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

pacolino said:


> So GM knew about this issue since 2017 and no recall information has been released since?! ... wow wtf...
> Did the stealership provide you with a reason as to why they replaced that specific pickup seal at that time assuming your car was not even 3 years old?


The oil pan gasket was leaking. I'm assuming the pickup gasket (along with the other 2) are listed as 'renew' when following the book for pan installation. Nothing controversial at all.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

pacolino said:


> So GM knew about this issue since 2017 and no recall information has been released since?! ... wow wtf...
> Did the stealership provide you with a reason as to why they replaced that specific pickup seal at that time assuming your car was not even 3 years old?


The seal is the connection between the baffled oil pan and the pump pickup. If you pull the oil pan, you must replace the seal. That's why they did it


----------



## JettatoCruze (Mar 10, 2019)

I remember before I bought one of these cars trying to do extensive research to make sure it didn't have any known flaws or failure points like the Jetta I came from did. And here we are with a 4 month old post nearly 2 years into my ownership showing this clusterfuck. All because GM cheaped out on a ******* O-ring. Ohhhhhh but it doesnt stop there. Lets design an oil pan where half the _&^$&_(^%$*&^% car has to come apart to replace a rubber seal. And what happens if the seal fails? Burning oil? Bad emissions or mileage? Na bruh thats rookie **** the ENTIRE ENGINE GRENADES. 

Ive read the first thread once and this one twice including watching the tea and sweets guy teardown and I'm wondering if anyone has been able to find out if we have the transmissions where you may have to drill to get access to 2 additional bolts? Knowing GM I imagine we do and are expected to drill and they quickly dispense someone from the nearest GM service center to kick you square in the nuts while you're under the car trying to fix their big brain decision.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I mean...keep in mind, we don't have _any_ confirmed reports of this failing - at least from our members on the forum - in North America yet. The engine is the same as in Europe, but it's possible _something _is different enough that it may not happen.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

JettatoCruze said:


> I remember before I bought one of these cars trying to do extensive research to make sure it didn't have any known flaws or failure points like the Jetta I came from did. And here we are with a 4 month old post nearly 2 years into my ownership showing this clusterfuck. All because GM cheaped out on a ***** O-ring. Ohhhhhh but it doesnt stop there. Lets design an oil pan where half the _&^$&_(^%$_&^% car has to come apart to replace a rubber seal. And what happens if the seal fails? Burning oil? Bad emissions or mileage? Na bruh thats rookie ***_ the ENTIRE ENGINE GRENADES.
> 
> Ive read the first thread once and this one twice including watching the tea and sweets guy teardown and I'm wondering if anyone has been able to find out if we have the transmissions where you may have to drill to get access to 2 additional bolts? Knowing GM I imagine we do and are expected to drill and they quickly dispense someone from the nearest GM service center to kick you square in the nuts while you're under the car trying to fix their big brain decision.


its the same engine and trans

likely the same procedure, not positive though


----------



## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

The bolts by the transmission are not hard to get you just need a long torx.


----------



## Twisted (Aug 12, 2013)

After my second turbo failed recently and having to fix my motor I have been trying to eliminate all possible causes(had a couple ideas but no way to no for sure) since it most certainly wasn't a fluke the first failure having happened again, I stumbled across this post doing some research. I plan on doing this along with the other repairs and modifications I made just in case, but realistically if this created my turbo issue(low oil pressure for feed line) I surely had further engine damage done in the process. Debating on doing a full tear down and rebuild at this point but for now it is running again, holds boost, has decent compression and oil burn is minimal so maybe I got lucky.

Saw a couple mentions of wanting non video and having access to service manuals I made a pdf(13 pages, seemed too big to paste in here haha) that has the procedures and pictures, the oil pan replacement book time is listed @ 7hrs for warranty repair and 9.8hrs standard repair. Once I get the time to perform this I'll know for sure, but after skimming through the manual I don't foresee all of the steps listed being required nor this taking anywhere near this amount of time(mileage may vary due to skill level and also a lot of my components have "fallen off"), use common sense and disassemble only as far as needed would be my advice.

Can confirm drilling the transmission is not necessary, there are removable plugs at the bell housing to access the bolts and as previously mentioned just require a long enough M6 to remove.

Hopefully this is helpful to someone and if you need anything else out of the manual just let me know through pm.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Twisted said:


> After my second turbo failed recently and having to fix my motor I have been trying to eliminate all possible causes(had a couple ideas but no way to no for sure) since it most certainly wasn't a fluke the first failure having happened again, I stumbled across this post doing some research. I plan on doing this along with the other repairs and modifications I made just in case, but realistically if this created my turbo issue(low oil pressure for feed line) I surely had further engine damage done in the process. Debating on doing a full tear down and rebuild at this point but for now it is running again, holds boost, has decent compression and oil burn is minimal so maybe I got lucky.
> 
> Saw a couple mentions of wanting non video and having access to service manuals I made a pdf(13 pages, seemed too big to paste in here haha) that has the procedures and pictures, the oil pan replacement book time is listed @ 7hrs for warranty repair and 9.8hrs standard repair. Once I get the time to perform this I'll know for sure, but after skimming through the manual I don't foresee all of the steps listed being required nor this taking anywhere near this amount of time(mileage may vary due to skill level and also a lot of my components have "fallen off"), use common sense and disassemble only as far as needed would be my advice.
> 
> ...


nice

sheet has tq values too....

now just to find out what the suitable sealant is?


----------



## Twisted (Aug 12, 2013)

boraz said:


> nice
> 
> sheet has tq values too....
> 
> now just to find out what the suitable sealant is?


Assuming you mean for the pan, that would just be the gm rtv #12378521, Amazon.com : 12378521

also for reference

















For me personally, im a big fan of the 90 minute black rtv made by permatex called The Right Stuff. Have had better luck with this getting hard to seal items like reusued valve covers etc to seal versus the gm product.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Twisted said:


> Assuming you mean for the pan, that would just be the gm rtv #12378521, Amazon.com : 12378521
> 
> also for reference
> View attachment 291046
> ...


 pan sealant as well as the oil pickup seal itself...


----------



## TheRealHip (Sep 1, 2014)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Is anybody gonna try actually removing the faulty seal and going with the aftermarket solution? I'm more inclined to remove it and try something else.
> 
> I like the Aluminum adapter w/ o-rings but the brass thingy would also be an option.
> 
> ...


Can you get this in the US?


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

TheRealHip said:


> Can you get this in the US?


its a solution to euro motor

so they are made in euro, they ship worldwide, i bought both of them to decide which to use


----------



## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I can confirm what @Twisted posted about the sealant. I just looked at my workorder from my dealer warranty job where they pulled the pan. They list 12378521 as a part that was used, which is the sealant.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

I got the Polish aftermarket sleeve installed from EBay VAUXHALL Insignia 2.0 CDTI Oil Pick up Gasket Rubber Seal 55589549 for sale | eBay. Mechanic said it fit like a glove. He also showed me a video of the idle oil pressure PID after installation and it was healthy.

Just letting everyone know in case there on the fence about going with the aftermarket solution.

Edited to add: I also had him install a neodium magnetic drain plug. These are also great as they will capture any ferrous metal that makes it into the sump.






Magnetic Drain Plug - Thread Size M18 x 1.50


Magnetic Drain Plug - Thread Size M18 x 1.50



www.powerslutracing.com


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## Speedbuff (Mar 24, 2021)

pacolino said:


> Okay, people, I found something very very interesting about our unique oil pump design which also answered my question as to why sometimes I read *37 PSI* at 80 MPH (and not 63 PSI which I read most of the time at 80 MPH) on my gauge EOP (engine oil pressure), here is an interesting article about low-pressure oil delivery at high speeds to maximize fuel efficiency:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 So how much oil pressure do you think you need extra in a diesel which you love the fuel economy of?
Answer just enough to float the parts and prevent friction/wear . 
If you think you need 60-80 psi go back to the eighties. This is a highly evolved diesel made as efficiently as possible with veryxwell matched components . I suppose you should drop some 15w40 in it as well to put a heavier thicker film on the bearings to protect the journals. In short put an 80's diesel in youre car or appreciate what you got in this near perfect well balanced package with lighter components lower oil pressure higher spec engine oil holding it all together. 
So this seal was a flop every car has issues with some things .The part is cheap its handyman doable so get it done and by the sounds of it this engine will be nearly bullet proof 
Mine will get the polish updated sealing sleeve so I have some piece of mind and dont have to keep changing the seal


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Diesel4Ever said:


> I got the Polish aftermarket sleeve installed from EBay VAUXHALL Insignia 2.0 CDTI Oil Pick up Gasket Rubber Seal 55589549 for sale | eBay. Mechanic said it fit like a glove. He also showed me a video of the idle oil pressure PID after installation and it was healthy.
> 
> Just letting everyone know in case there on the fence about going with the aftermarket solution.
> 
> ...


Do you mind sharing what he charged for it? On my workorder under warranty they have like 8 book hours listed which would mean it's over $1,000 had I paid.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

BDCCruze said:


> Do you mind sharing what he charged for it? On my workorder under warranty they have like 8 book hours listed which would mean it's over $1,000 had I paid.


I don't go to dealers, multiple negative experiences over the last 20 years is enough to convince me to find alternatives. There is a local independent shop I use and another friend of the family that does side work out of his garage. The friend is slow to complete but generally does good work. I have 3 vehicles, so one can be down for awhile and I can still get around on my own.

There is no bill to pay, it was a barter/trade deal for some items I had that he wanted. He is still working on it, needs a transmission flush and a few other things done. When I get it back I can ask him what it would cost and you can multiply it by 2x to get the dealer cost.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

Twisted said:


> After my second turbo failed recently and having to fix my motor I have been trying to eliminate all possible causes(had a couple ideas but no way to no for sure) since it most certainly wasn't a fluke the first failure having happened again, I stumbled across this post doing some research. I plan on doing this along with the other repairs and modifications I made just in case, but realistically if this created my turbo issue(low oil pressure for feed line) I surely had further engine damage done in the process. Debating on doing a full tear down and rebuild at this point but for now it is running again, holds boost, has decent compression and oil burn is minimal so maybe I got lucky.
> 
> Saw a couple mentions of wanting non video and having access to service manuals I made a pdf(13 pages, seemed too big to paste in here haha) that has the procedures and pictures, the oil pan replacement book time is listed @ 7hrs for warranty repair and 9.8hrs standard repair. Once I get the time to perform this I'll know for sure, but after skimming through the manual I don't foresee all of the steps listed being required nor this taking anywhere near this amount of time(mileage may vary due to skill level and also a lot of my components have "fallen off"), use common sense and disassemble only as far as needed would be my advice.
> 
> ...


So your dreaded 2 oil pan bolts at the trans were M6 not torx? Were the rest of your oil pan bolts M6? I will be doing timing belt and resealing my oil pan in the next week or so. Getting ready to turn 250k miles on the way home from work today. Any tips or advice? Also any pics or other info anyone would like me to collect?


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

Also I will post pics of what parts I got to do timing belt and reseal the oil pan all from GM.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

electrozap_29 said:


> Also I will post pics of what parts I got to do timing belt and reseal the oil pan all from GM.


Bump for update??


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm taking my sweet time fixing it on top of getting ready for camping trips, cold weather last week and a little laziness lol. I have the oil pan off and all the parts to go back together with it and repair all the oil leaks. I also already have the timing belt done. I'm going to get back on it next week. I will say the most difficult part was actually separating the oil pan from the engine even after everything was out of the way and all oil pan bolts were out!


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

electrozap_29 said:


> I'm taking my sweet time fixing it on top of getting ready for camping trips, cold weather last week and a little laziness lol. I have the oil pan off and all the parts to go back together with it and repair all the oil leaks. I also already have the timing belt done. I'm going to get back on it next week. I will say the most difficult part was actually separating the oil pan from the engine even after everything was out of the way and all oil pan bolts were out!


So in the end does the pan just drop out easy when all the pan bolts are out or is it a pain with lots of crap in the way


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> So in the end does the pan just drop out easy when all the pan bolts are out or is it a pain with lots of crap in the way


I was wondering this. While under the car yesterday replacing the drain plug seal, I took a look at where the hell else it was leaking from and I really can't tell, but _I think_ it's somewhere along the oil pan's seal...and it looks like an absolute pain in the ass to remove.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I was wondering this. While under the car yesterday replacing the drain plug seal, I took a look at where the hell else it was leaking from and I really can't tell, but _I think_ it's somewhere along the oil pan's seal...and it looks like an absolute pain in the ass to remove.


For ***** sake GM why would you make a pan that’s a pain to remove. Is it easy looking if on a lift or is it a remove tons of stuff to get to? When I read remove odd anger half shaft I definitely got a bit ticked at that.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

electrozap_29 said:


> I'm taking my sweet time fixing it on top of getting ready for camping trips, cold weather last week and a little laziness lol. I have the oil pan off and all the parts to go back together with it and repair all the oil leaks. I also already have the timing belt done. I'm going to get back on it next week. I will say the most difficult part was actually separating the oil pan from the engine even after everything was out of the way and all oil pan bolts were out!


Funny because in service data they actually say you need a special tool to separate it. They look like this Pan Seal Cutter | OTC Tools

So @MP81 is also talking about oil leaks. I think mine is leaking from the front of the motor somewhere. @electrozap_29 did you see any leaks coming from around the oil pump?

I think this job is totally doable. My issue is that this car is my one and only vehicle and if something doesn't go right I'm screwed. If I could just leave it in the garage and work on it over a few days it wouldn't be a big deal.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I look to have a small drip on that sensor above the oil pan on the rear of the engine, but it seems very minimal and did not look to attribute to where the larger leak appears to be, which seems to be closer to where the engine and trans mates, but seems like its higher up, near where the oil pan attaches to the engine. But the oil leak from the drain plug also made a bit of a mess with the car being driven, so I need to wait for that to "self-clean" some more to really get a good look at it. It also could be the trans seeping a bit because why not have two separate leaks?

@pandrad61 it seemed like there were a few things attached to it, but also there were about 40,000 bolts pretty far up. On a lift, though, I believe it would be much, much easier. I also was looking at this with the aeroshield in place, which really isn't in the way, but also limits what you can see because you can't stick your head up in front of the engine.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I look to have a small drip on that sensor above the oil pan on the rear of the engine, but it seems very minimal and did not look to attribute to where the larger leak appears to be, which seems to be closer to where the engine and trans mates, but seems like its higher up, near where the oil pan attaches to the engine. But the oil leak from the drain plug also made a bit of a mess with the car being driven, so I need to wait for that to "self-clean" some more to really get a good look at it. It also could be the trans seeping a bit because why not have two separate leaks?
> 
> @pandrad61 it seemed like there were a few things attached to it, but also there were about 40,000 bolts pretty far up. On a lift, though, I believe it would be much, much easier. I also was looking at this with the aeroshield in place, which really isn't in the way, but also limits what you can see because you can't stick your head up in front of the engine.


That makes sense. I haven’t seen my Cruze up in a lift without the shield. I sure hope in a lift and shield off it’s like most cars that it’s a many bolts to remove on pan and drop it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm thinking it _should_ be, there's just a few things attached to it. But being under the car on my back I didn't look _that_ hard, since I was moreso looking for where the hell it was leaking from.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I was wondering this. While under the car yesterday replacing the drain plug seal, I took a look at where the hell else it was leaking from and I really can't tell, but _I think_ it's somewhere along the oil pan's seal...and it looks like an absolute pain in the ass to remove.


It's certainly not easy but not terribly difficult either. Yeah it stinks that the cv axle support bracket bolts to it but it's not bad to get the whole cv axle out. The sensor wiring on the rear of the oil pan up from the drain plug is a common leak. It really only seems to leak while the engine is running. Mine was also seeping from the dipstick tube and the turbo oil drain and maybe a little around the oil pan on the front near the trans. My DPF may have "fallen off" making the repairs to oil leaks on the front of the engine MUCH easier. I would recommend taking the DPF off to perform repairs on the front of the engine. More to come this week Lord willing.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

The biggest trouble I had with the whole project so far was getting the oil pan off and back in place. Theres a shield/spacer plate between the engine and trans that makes it more difficult to get the oil pan off or on. Maybe if you pried the shield

















































towards the torque converter the pan would come off easier🤷‍♂️ as you can see in the pics I bent said spacer plate removing the oil pan. Also the plastic baffle was broken in one place. Not sure if I did that removing or not.. luckily a new baffle was only about $25. I chose to reseal everything that could leak including the pcv drain that goes into the oil pan on the rear. The plastic pcv drain broke when I was getting it out to re seal it. Luckily it was fairly cheap too. ** note** the pcv drain is secured to the oil pan with a tamperproof bolt🤦‍♂️😡 its a 5 point torx best I can tell. I drove a 13mm 12 point socket on it with a couple of extensions from up top. I'm putting a regular bolt back in it when I put it together.Other than that it's pretty straight forward so far. Any ?s about anything ask away!


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

Here's a pic of the tamperproof bolt that holds the pcv drain in and a pic of the socket driven on it for removal. Lots of tea and sweets required for this project!!!


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Why would you replace the seal with the same poorly designed part?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So I keep reading about these "bolts from hell" that are accessed through the trans or something? I don't see those?


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Why would you replace the seal with the same poorly designed part?


It lasted for 250k with no problems on mine. I'm not sure I trust the aftermarket replacements to do better over time.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

MP81 said:


> So I keep reading about these "bolts from hell" that are accessed through the trans or something? I don't see those?


The


MP81 said:


> So I keep reading about these "bolts from hell" that are accessed through the trans or something? I don't see those?


There's 2 plastic plugs in the bottom of the bellhousing. About 5 inches up there's 2 T40 bolts. Some suggest a long t40 bit. I used a t40 bit in a socket with a long extension and it did fine for me.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And those hold...what in place? The oil pump?


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

MP81 said:


> And those hold...what in place? The oil pump?


No just the oil pan. There is 2 T40 bolts on the other end of the engine but they also only hold the oil pan to the engine. The other 10 bolts are T47


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So all the bolts, except for those two, are not behind any kind of covers or anything. So where does the oil pump gasket go that gets replaced? Can't really tell from the pics.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

MP81 said:


> So all the bolts, except for those two, are not behind any kind of covers or anything. So where does the oil pump gasket go that gets replaced? Can't really tell from the pics.


All the other bolts are pretty straight forward. I don't have any pics of where the new pickup seal goes. It goes in the oil pump suction port. It's pretty self explanatory when you get the oil pan off. It Priest right out and the new one pretty easily goes back in.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

electrozap_29 said:


> All the other bolts are pretty straight forward. I don't have any pics of where the new pickup seal goes. It goes in the oil pump suction port. It's pretty self explanatory when you get the oil pan off. It Priest right out and the new one pretty easily goes back in.


How about pics of that seal and or a description of it after that many miles.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

15cruzediesel said:


> How about pics of that seal and or a description of it after that many miles.


Will do when I get some time


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

electrozap_29 said:


> Will do when I get some time


This was a concern failure point for a few on here and it would be cool to see what it looked like after that many miles.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

It is absolutely a failure point. Anybody who isn’t concerned or proactively replacing it is asking for trouble. Google vauxhall oil pickup seal to see how common it is. Planned obsolescence by GM.









Sign the Petition


INSIGNIA RE-CALL OIL PICK UP PIPE SEAL




www.change.org


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Planned obsolescence by GM


I'm not so sure it was planned obsolescence, or more just cost-savings on a part. More than likely just the latter.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

Diesel4Ever said:


> It is absolutely a failure point. Anybody who isn’t concerned or proactively replacing it is asking for trouble. Google vauxhall oil pickup seal to see how common it is. Planned obsolescence by GM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting that only 1800 people have signed the petition for such a high rate of catastrophic failure.

Makes me wonder how many of these engines were made over there....Either only a few with many failures or lots of engines with only a small number of failures.

Either way add it to the list of issues to be dealt with.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

15cruzediesel said:


> Interesting that only 1800 people have signed the petition for such a high rate of catastrophic failure.
> 
> Makes me wonder how many of these engines were made over there....Either only a few with many failures or lots of engines with only a small number of failures.
> 
> Either way add it to the list of issues to be dealt with.


It’s a European engine. All A20DTHs were made at the Opel factory in Germany.

Europe doesn’t have the same consumer protection laws as we do. I’ll remind you that this oil pick seal flaw was completely unknown on this forum until a member lost an engine and we all learned about it. This was no more than a year ago.... I got a great deal on my Cruze diesel however I would not have bought it if I knew about the pickup seal and other issues that appeared after I got it.

The petition is an attempt for GM to take responsibility for their poor engineering. With that said, do a search like I said and you’ll see how many hits on various forums. This engine was used in the Opel, SAAB and Vauxhall sedans and the 2.0 can fail as early as 100k miles.

it’s like gambling. You may be fine for 250k miles or it may go before 100k.

probably should be included when the timing belt is done if not before.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

Diesel4Ever said:


> It’s a European engine. All A20DTHs were made at the Opel factory in Germany.
> 
> Europe doesn’t have the same consumer protection laws as we do. I’ll remind you that this oil pick seal flaw was completely unknown on this forum until a member lost an engine and we all learned about it. This was no more than a year ago.... I got a great deal on my Cruze diesel however I would not have bought it if I knew about the pickup seal and other issues that appeared after I got it.
> 
> ...


Understand.

Still want to know how many failures vs how many produced or better yet the MTBF before being overly concerned.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

@electrozap_29

Few questions

1) Did you replace or notice any issues with the other seals leaking, like the PCV return or oil level sensor? Those are seeping on mine even though I had the PCV seal replaced 100k miles ago - seems like a common failure point. Thankfully it's not enough to cause the oil level to go down.
2) What information did you find/use to determine the correct procedure for replacing the pan sealant? I recall reading it's suppose to be a very thin bead - I imagine so that chunks don't squeeze into the pan and break off and fall in.
3) Where there any spots on the pan, either over the rear main or up front by the oil pump, that you felt were leaking or seeping? Or any other major points of leaking/seeping from the pan?

Thanks for sharing - I think you are one of the first on the board to do this job yourself, or at least that shared pictures.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

BDCCruze said:


> @electrozap_29
> 
> Few questions
> 
> ...


The pcv drain was not leaking, but I resealed the tube that goes into the oil pan and the external tube that goes into that tube. As stated previously the pcv drain tube that goes into the oil pan broke when I was removing it to reseal it. Also note the pcv drain tube bolts to the inside of the oil pan on the bottom. The oil level sensor on mine had been leaking since around 110k or so and progressively got worse. It only seemed to leak when it was running and sprayed right back on the exhaust around the def nozzle and the pipe behind it. I did put a bead of the same sealer the oil pan uses around where the wiring for that sensor comes through when I replaced it. Also the engine oil dipstick tube was leaking. The oil pan seemed to be leaking near the trans. I thought it may be the rear main but after I got the oil pan off the flex plate and torque converter were dry. Where the oil pan meets the rear main it didn't look like it had quite enough sealer on it from the factory so I made sure it had enough when I put it back together😁 in the GM service info it says a 2mm bead of sealant... I was more generous than that. If you look at the pic of the oil pan re installed you can see sealant oozed out around the perimeter. I've resealed many 7.3 powerstroke oil pans that use a similar sealant with plenty (but not way too much) sealant and never had a problem. I'm still going to post a vid or pics of the old pickup seal when I get some time. I can say the old one was less pliable than the new one but not terrible. I'm hoping for at least a half million miles out of this car! However long it runs thats how far I'm going to drive it. There is also some wiring that needs attention under the car while your going through the trouble to save you some heartache later on.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That sounds like exactly where I presume my oil pan is leaking, as well - prior to the drain plug leaking and making a mess after this most recent oil change, I could see plenty of evidence of a leak likely from the oil pan, right near the trans. Not heavy enough that it drips, but I did pull out the same amount of oil that I put in, rather than more due to fuel dilution, but it's still not a huge leak. Obviously _no_ leak would be better. 

It basically leaves my Volt as the only one that's not currently leaking oil - my Cobalt has had a leak for years - probably an oil pressure sensor known to leak, but I've never dug into it, and my Camaro needs a rear main seal...because SBC with a two-piece rear main seal.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

electrozap_29 said:


> The pcv drain was not leaking, but I resealed the tube that goes into the oil pan and the external tube that goes into that tube. As stated previously the pcv drain tube that goes into the oil pan broke when I was removing it to reseal it. Also note the pcv drain tube bolts to the inside of the oil pan on the bottom. The oil level sensor on mine had been leaking since around 110k or so and progressively got worse. It only seemed to leak when it was running and sprayed right back on the exhaust around the def nozzle and the pipe behind it. I did put a bead of the same sealer the oil pan uses around where the wiring for that sensor comes through when I replaced it. Also the engine oil dipstick tube was leaking. The oil pan seemed to be leaking near the trans. I thought it may be the rear main but after I got the oil pan off the flex plate and torque converter were dry. Where the oil pan meets the rear main it didn't look like it had quite enough sealer on it from the factory so I made sure it had enough when I put it back together😁 in the GM service info it says a 2mm bead of sealant... I was more generous than that. If you look at the pic of the oil pan re installed you can see sealant oozed out around the perimeter. I've resealed many 7.3 powerstroke oil pans that use a similar sealant with plenty (but not way too much) sealant and never had a problem. I'm still going to post a vid or pics of the old pickup seal when I get some time. I can say the old one was less pliable than the new one but not terrible. I'm hoping for at least a half million miles out of this car! However long it runs thats how far I'm going to drive it. There is also some wiring that needs attention under the car while your going through the trouble to save you some heartache later on.


what sealant(s) did you use for the seal itself and the pan?


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

boraz said:


> what sealant(s) did you use for the seal itself and the pan?


I will look at the parts receipt and get back to you. I will mention that it's whatever the dealer looked up. What was on the car originally was a light black. What I put back was gray.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

So while you're under the car and have the plastic shield under the engine off take a look at this wiring. The loom on this wiring would crumble on touch and some of it was AWOL all together. First pic runs from the front left corner bac





















k along the subframe. The front end of it has a connector on it and runs back to I assume the steering rack. It had 2 sets of twisted pairs of wiring so I would assume they are data bus wires. Dont want them shorting out! The rest of the pics show the wiring going to an a/c pressure sensor on the right side of the radiator at the bottom. The wiring runs along the fan shroud to a harness on the right side of the radiator. The fan could easily damage this wiring if left unaddressed. All pics are after I repaired it. Sorry no before pics.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

boraz said:


> what sealant(s) did you use for the seal itself and the pan?


The GM part # I used is 88864346


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## swedgemon (Jan 16, 2017)

I own a 2014 Cruze Diesel with 115,000 miles and decided to install a new oil seal in the crankcase. Following the documented process, it took me longer (I'm 77 and getting up off the floor to get yet another needed tool wears me out), but I got it done. That silly little 1/2" tube that returns oil to the crankcase, however, is fastened to the crankcase with some kind of drive pin or rivet - I could not remove it. A quick swipe with a razor knife about 3/4" up from the metal fitting got things loosened up and the crankcase dropped after the usual prying and twisting. Before putting the crankcase back up I slid a 2" piece of 5/8" OD X 1/2" ID vinyl tube (from Menards) up the engine-mounted tube (a smear of oil helps). The tube is easily bent out of the way while bolting the crankcase in place, after which the vinyl tubing and 2 hose clamps are put in place (no oil leaks yet, after about 1,000 miles).
Since the exhaust line was going to be down I wanted to install new muffler bolts since these were known to corrode and break. Replacement flange gasket with 2 stainless nuts, bolts and washers from Rock Auto. The exhaust flange and bolts were a mass of rust and since hitting the bolts with successively larger hammers did not work, I ground the bolt heads off, thinking maybe there were welded in place (NOT). The bolts were striated (little tiny interference ridges) and the bolts were likely pressed in place at the assembly plant. More beating with a now BFH did not move them...heating the flange area with a propane torch eventually got them out. The bolts were corroded about 1/4 away.
Photos are for your reference...Swedge


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## swedgemon (Jan 16, 2017)

swedgemon said:


> I own a 2014 Cruze Diesel with 115,000 miles and decided to install a new oil seal in the crankcase. Following the documented process, it took me longer (I'm 77 and getting up off the floor to get yet another needed tool wears me out), but I got it done. That silly little 1/2" tube that returns oil to the crankcase, however, is fastened to the crankcase with some kind of drive pin or rivet - I could not remove it. A quick swipe with a razor knife about 3/4" up from the metal fitting got things loosened up and the crankcase dropped after the usual prying and twisting. Before putting the crankcase back up I slid a 2" piece of 5/8" OD X 1/2" ID vinyl tube (from Menards) up the engine-mounted tube (a smear of oil helps). The tube is easily bent out of the way while bolting the crankcase in place, after which the vinyl tubing and 2 hose clamps are put in place (no oil leaks yet, after about 1,000 miles).
> Since the exhaust line was going to be down I wanted to install new muffler bolts since these were known to corrode and break. Replacement flange gasket with 2 stainless nuts, bolts and washers from Rock Auto. The exhaust flange and bolts were a mass of rust and since hitting the bolts with successively larger hammers did not work, I ground the bolt heads off, thinking maybe there were welded in place (NOT). The bolts were striated (little tiny interference ridges) and the bolts were likely pressed in place at the assembly plant. More beating with a now BFH did not move them...heating the flange area with a propane torch eventually got them out. The bolts were corroded about 1/4 away.
> Photos are for your reference...Swedge
> View attachment 293226
> ...


Though maybe a full-size photo of the oil return tube would be best...


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## msav (Apr 24, 2014)

I just thought I would add to this thread. 

I had my dealer replace my water pump about a year ago. They also spotted an oil leak from the sensor on the back of the oil pan. They quoted me $1300 to replace the water pump, timing belt, drive belt and coolant outlet pipe. They also quoted $900 to replace the seal on the oil pan sensor. They said it required the pan to be dropped. I am sure it included the seal in question on this thread. 

with that being said If you do pickup seal replacement I recommend to reseal this rear sensor seal. It seamed to me it was just a plastic bung ring I did not see any rubber seal but it may have deteriorated. I (not knowing about this pickup seal) chose to just use oil resistant sealant on the outside of the rear sensor myself and it stopped leaking. I have about 78k miles on my 2014. I will most likely be planning on doing this later this year.


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

Is the oil pump pickup seal accessible from the top by removing the oil pump when I do my timing belt service? Would this be easier to do if I'm already servicing the timing belt? Or is dropping the oil pan the best way?


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

msav said:


> I just thought I would add to this thread.
> 
> I had my dealer replace my water pump about a year ago. They also spotted an oil leak from the sensor on the back of the oil pan. They quoted me $1300 to replace the water pump, timing belt, drive belt and coolant outlet pipe. They also quoted $900 to replace the seal on the oil pan sensor. They said it required the pan to be dropped. I am sure it included the seal in question on this thread.
> 
> with that being said If you do pickup seal replacement I recommend to reseal this rear sensor seal. It seamed to me it was just a plastic bung ring I did not see any rubber seal but it may have deteriorated. I (not knowing about this pickup seal) chose to just use oil resistant sealant on the outside of the rear sensor myself and it stopped leaking. I have about 78k miles on my 2014. I will most likely be planning on doing this later this year.


The sensor (one above the oil drain bolt) can be 'resealed' from under the car. I have to keep mine sealed because of drips. I believe that is the oil level sensor. It pushes through from inside the pan and uses an E clip to stay in position. I believe the E clip bends which loosens it up, but I haven't had the courage to pull the clip out and replace it with a new one for fear of dropping the sensor into the pan.

For anyone that drops the pan, replacing the seal for the oil level sensor, PCV, and Dip stick tube are important in addition to oil pickup seal. All 3 of those spots cause oil leaks on these.



afineAmerican said:


> Is the oil pump pickup seal accessible from the top by removing the oil pump when I do my timing belt service? Would this be easier to do if I'm already servicing the timing belt? Or is dropping the oil pan the best way?


You have to drop the pan.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, I think our sensor has been weeping for a while. But it's not at "drip" level yet.

The insurance adjuster saw that and thought the accident had caused that...I told her (and my buddy who owns the shop) that as long as it's not visibly dripping/leaking, the back of the pan is just wet because it always is and was before. Then they tried to screw my buddy out of the inspection fees (having the car on the lift to look underneath) because that leak as pre-existing...when you wouldn't have seen that leak until you had it up in the air and, oh, _my wife ran *over* a tree_ so ya'll best be looking underneath anyway.

But I digress.  

I told my buddy (now that it's bought back) that if it is truly leaking to let me know, and I'll have him do the oil pick up seal fix (the one from Poland) while he's got the pan off, but I also told him to hope he doesn't have to take the pan (and the corresponding half of the front of the car) off.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Yeah, I think our sensor has been weeping for a while. But it's not at "drip" level yet.
> 
> The insurance adjuster saw that and thought the accident had caused that...I told her (and my buddy who owns the shop) that as long as it's not visibly dripping/leaking, the back of the pan is just wet because it always is and was before. Then they tried to screw my buddy out of the inspection fees (having the car on the lift to look underneath) because that leak as pre-existing...when you wouldn't have seen that leak until you had it up in the air and, oh, _my wife ran *over* a tree_ so ya'll best be looking underneath anyway.
> 
> ...


If he does I’d love a full write up with photos/video


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

@electrozap_29 - Any update on if your pan is leaking


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

BDCCruze said:


> @electrozap_29 - Any update on if your pan is leaking


No leaks thus far everything is nice and dry😁


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

I have this on my laundry list for this weekend/next week. The procedure for removing the pcv pipe running up the intake side of the motor says to “use a rotory tool or similar to score a line in the fastener ‘the one that was pressed in or whatever they did’, use an impact to loosen it, remove and replace that grommet deal/seal.” Has anyone done it differently? I saw one gentleman cut the line and spliced it afterwards. Not sure how you could use a rotory tool in that area. What a pain to drop the pan

*Note: *Using a small rotary cutter tool, cut a slot in the head of the bolt. Use an impact driver or similar device to overcome the initial resistance to loosen the bolt.


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## electrozap_29 (Mar 9, 2017)

You can drive a 12 or 13 mm 12 point socket onto the head of the bolt With some long extensions from up top in the engine bay that's how I did mine


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

I’ll give her a shot. I definitely don’t want to be sticking a dremel somewhere I can’t see


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Why on earth they didn't just...make it a regular bolt...is bizarre. 

But good to know - I'll be doing this (my aluminum "seal" from Poland just arrived the other day) when I do my oil change in a month or two - and this would surely have puzzled me going into it blind.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

I’m going with the rubber replacement one. No particular reason. We also need to replace 2 seals within the intermediate shaft (I guess that’s what it’s called) when we remove the right driveshaft. No clue on part number. One orange, one black as well as the normal axle seal. But hey! Get an oil change and a trans refresh out of it!







there were two options AllData gave me. With intermediate driveshaft or without. i didnt look really, so this is "with" . this is tranny side inner most (1) Is orange, outer (2) is black.









and this is obviously the driveshaft.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

How much trouble did it give you coming out? I know when I swapped the axles on my Cobalt the stub shaft came out with it, so it was a little more work overall (since I was replacing the axle - though I didn't need to in the end - ideally that should have stayed in the trans, would have kept it from pissing trans fluid on the ground after a while), but getting it out/in can be a bit annoying just simply due to a lack of leverage.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

I haven’t started mine yet. I was curious if we have enough wiggle room to push the hub side inward past the knuckle and swing it away. I doubt it, I just replaced my wheel bearings and it had some play obviously, but probably not enough. **** we only need the thing out of the way for two lousy bolts. As you can probably tell, not looking forward to this one


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, that's kind of what I was hoping. For my Cobalt, I was able to compress the axle enough to squeeze it out of the hub, I believe while it was still in place in the knuckle.

It's really a shame we can't just remove the bolts and leave it in place...


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

Yea, or at least make it bolted from the bottom up instead. I’ll have to get under there. (Had surgery last week, nothing big) and see why we can’t get access. I mean, the bolts don’t have to come all the way out. Remove the rest and slide the pan down them 🤷‍♂️ Sure as **** not gonna start drilling hole in my tranny. That sounds insane


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I saw one video on YouTube, the guy was able to do it without pulling the axle. He unbolted the 3 bolts that were on the Axle mount and pull it away from the pan enough to drop the pan down.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

Nice, so he was able to access those two bolts everyone is talking about? So we don’t have to touch the hub side at all then?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I think the two "hidden" bolts are for the oil pan itself, no? I believe we have access holes for those.

That's promising though, because I was really wondering in my mind why we couldn't just unbolt the axle and sort of pull it out of the way to drop the sump.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

That’s what it looks like? I’ll be under there this weekend and see. Somewhere along the line someone was talking about not having access to a couple bolts and had to drill into the tranny. I’m all confused now lol. I bet it’s no biggie. Happen to have that link man? Thanks


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

sorry it’s blurry. Phone was basically in my face. These are the two “hidden bolts” on the rear of the pan. Access is through the bell housing. Remove the two black plastic dust plugs (small D shape). They take a T30. If you have a 1/4” T30 and extensions your good. I only had 3/8 which will not fit through the access holes. I used a long Allen type T30. They’re about 4-5 inches up. Enjoy


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oooh yeah that's tight! I'll need to see if I've got a T30 in a 1/4" drive (I have a set of torx sockets, but some are 1/4", some are 3/8") - if not, I now know that it'll be worth buying some. More tools is always good anyway.

How about our thoughts on the axle shaft support - can that simply be unbolted and pulled away, allowing the sump to be dropped without removing the axle?


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

MP81 said:


> Oooh yeah that's tight! I'll need to see if I've got a T30 in a 1/4" drive (I have a set of torx sockets, but some are 1/4", some are 3/8") - if not, I now know that it'll be worth buying some. More tools is always good anyway.
> 
> How about our thoughts on the axle shaft support - can that simply be unbolted and pulled away, allowing the sump to be dropped without removing the axle?


That’s how I did mine, I did not remove the driveshaft. Probably took me twice as long though. One bracket bolt will not come out as the way, but just enough to get a T40 through (not a ratchet, a torx long handle tool. 10 bolts are T40. The front and rear 4 (2each side) are T30. A lot of prying and cussing but doable. Main problems with that approach are: time, getting the sump in and out once unbolted is a royal pain and acquiring verified torque


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hmm, so you spend probably 2-3 hours to save 1 hour? But in doing so you _do_ avoid any potential issues by having to remove the axle and what not. That also means I can do this on ramps instead of jack stands, which is always a plus.

Of course they make it so a ******* bolt can't be removed because why not. I assume the axle itself is in the way of the bolt coming out?

Do you think a very long torx bit (socket) would also work as well as what you used? Do you recall what the torque value is on the sump bolts?


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

Yea, something like that. I didn’t use my ramps. With that said I needed it off to do a couple other things. Putting it on jackstands helped me because I found it nice to have the tire off and could easily pull the harmonic balancer off (just helped to have it off).

if I had to do it again, I would pull the driveshaft. I also pulled the DPF out, but that is finding a new home anyway. The only T30 I had was 3/8. That will not fit through the access hole, not sure if they make a 1/4” T30. Not sure if that answered your question or not. I’m still on my first cup of coffee 🥱

The 10 T40 bolts are 18 ft lb
The 4 T30 bolts are 80 INCH lb


----------



## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

@Bvogt - Do you think pulling the driveshaft while doing the pan would also make changing the oil cooler easier, or can that all be done top side?


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

BDCCruze said:


> @Bvogt - Do you think pulling the driveshaft while doing the pan would also make changing the oil cooler easier, or can that all be done top side?


If you just want to do the oil cooler, pull the alternator and it will make your life much easier. No matter what, you have to get under it to torque them and line the thing up. Only 3 bolts, a sensor and those **** coolant lines

no need to pull the driveshaft for the oil cooler, but if your dropping the pan anyway, oh yea it will be a lot easier


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## AdrianCTD (10 mo ago)

So after reading thru a few threads regarding the pick up seal. What was the best route to take? Having my timing belt done soon thinking of just having the seal changed out aswell Since I’m at 210k miles. Or should I go with that fitting with the 2 orings?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

AdrianCTD said:


> So after reading thru a few threads regarding the pick up seal. What was the best route to take? Having my timing belt done soon thinking of just having the seal changed out aswell Since I’m at 210k miles. Or should I go with that fitting with the 2 orings?


In the end, the original design is still a problem, so eventually you risk it failing again. The aluminum one with the two Viton O-Rings should never fail, so you're only replacing it once.


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## AdrianCTD (10 mo ago)

Anyone happen to have a link to the one with viton orings? I keep coming up with the one that still uses the factory seal


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

This is the one I bought: Vauxhall Insignia , Astra 2.0 CDTI Oil Pump Sump Seal / oil pick up seal | eBay


----------



## AdrianCTD (10 mo ago)

MP81 said:


> This is the one I bought: Vauxhall Insignia , Astra 2.0 CDTI Oil Pump Sump Seal / oil pick up seal | eBay


Awesome thanks, gonna order it


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

All right, I'm getting closer to when I should probably do this, so a few questions for those that have.

1. I haven't decided if I'm going to pull the halfshaft or not. If I do, did you have trans fluid leak out from the transmission when removed? And did you have to disassemble a lot of the suspension to get it out - the service manual sure wants you to basically remove _everything _(as in, can I just remove the axle bolt and push it out of the hub)? Did you keep the halfshaft and the intermediate shaft together and remove it all as one?
2. For the PCV bolt, it looks like you have to...cut a slot in it to actually remove it? Was there a better way to do this? Was an impact screwdriver required? (I will probably replace the O-ring on this, as well as the engine oil level sensor, with Viton ones) And did you just use a different bolt to reinstall - it looks like a new one requires some weird ass bit to be "tamper proof"?
3. I'm seeing something about an engine oil heater needing to be removed and having thermal paste reapplied when it is reinstalled?
4. What RTV did you use to re-seal the oil pan?


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

@MP81
I did mine without removing the driveshaft. Incredible pain in the ass.

PCV line: I cut the line and coupled it back with a sleeve and clamps. No issues after 4K so far. Some have beat a 12 point socket over it to break it loose. I couldn’t get a swing on it.

Spindle: unfortunately you are not unable to unbolt the spindle/main hub nut and push it through without removing anything else.

engine oil heater: the car came with a factory option block/pan heater. I’ve never come across anyone who has one. You obviously know if your has one or not.

RTV: I used the classic black. No issues so far.

note: I suggest removing the inner fender well and harmonic balancer to reinstall the pan to ensure the RTV stays put around the oil pump


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## NUMBER2 (May 23, 2019)

If you have the oil pan heater, you don't have to remove it. Just need to thread the wire. But it's unlikely you have one unless you're in Alaska or Canada probably.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> All right, I'm getting closer to when I should probably do this, so a few questions for those that have.
> 
> 1. I haven't decided if I'm going to pull the halfshaft or not. If I do, did you have trans fluid leak out from the transmission when removed? And did you have to disassemble a lot of the suspension to get it out - the service manual sure wants you to basically remove _everything _(as in, can I just remove the axle bolt and push it out of the hub)? Did you keep the halfshaft and the intermediate shaft together and remove it all as one?
> 2. For the PCV bolt, it looks like you have to...cut a slot in it to actually remove it? Was there a better way to do this? Was an impact screwdriver required? (I will probably replace the O-ring on this, as well as the engine oil level sensor, with Viton ones) And did you just use a different bolt to reinstall - it looks like a new one requires some weird ass bit to be "tamper proof"?
> ...


For number 1, You can unhook the lower tie rod end, push the axle back with the nutt on it, and swing the knuck out of the way to clear the drift shaft.
For number 2, you can buy a kit on ebay that has all of the seals for those leak spots like the sensor, pcv, etc.
number 3, I believe it just wants you to put silicon paste on it to lubricate and hold the seals in place while you reinstall them.
number 4, when I had my oil pan resealed by the dealer, they used ACDELCO # 12378521


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I wonder if they make that kit _without_ the pickup seal replacement, as I already have that one and definitely don't need a second, haha


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Does anyone happen to know the PN (or the bolt specs - diameter/pitch) of that stupid PCV bolt? Thinking I'd like to just...replace it with a non-tamper-proof one because I literally don't care about that. One would hope it doesn't need to come off again. Then again, maybe the slot I will try and cut into it with a dremel won't just destroy itself.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So for the long T30...should something like this be long enough?









Amazon.com: TEKTON 3/8 Inch Drive x T30 Long Torx Bit Socket | SHB14430 : Tools & Home Improvement


Amazon.com: TEKTON 3/8 Inch Drive x T30 Long Torx Bit Socket | SHB14430 : Tools & Home Improvement



smile.amazon.com





Or this one, being 1/4 drive since it with extensions should fit:








Amazon.com: Capri Tools Long T30 Star Bit Socket, 1/4-Inch Drive - 3-0599 : Tools & Home Improvement


Amazon.com: Capri Tools Long T30 Star Bit Socket, 1/4-Inch Drive - 3-0599 : Tools & Home Improvement



smile.amazon.com





Not like torque on these bolts is massive or anything. But if the 3/8 drive will be long enough, might just grab a whole set because why not.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

The bell housing hole will not accept a 3/8 socket (if an extension is needed) unless the torx portion is over 5 inches or so before the socket portion bottoms out. 1/4” will work.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Cool, this should do the trick then - the T30 is 1/4 drive, and I end up with a nice set: https://smile.amazon.com/GEARWRENCH-Drive-Long-Torx-Socket/dp/B001M0O18Y/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2PLDUEIGRLMFY&keywords=long+torx+bit+set+socket+1/4&qid=1654699802&sprefix=long+torx+bit+set+socket+1/4,aps,207&sr=8-5&th=1

Just need the Viton O-Rings, Black RTV, probably an impact screwdriver (need one anyway) - I may just go the cut and splice method with the PCV breather tube if I can't get onto it, pretty low pressure so I'm sure clamps and fuel hose should be perfectly fine there, and an oil filter. Just ordered the oil, and have a shitload of the Amsoil ATF I use.

So I assume this can be done without removing any the exhaust, albeit with probably a little less room to maneuver the pan on?


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Cool, this should do the trick then - the T30 is 1/4 drive, and I end up with a nice set: https://smile.amazon.com/GEARWRENCH-Drive-Long-Torx-Socket/dp/B001M0O18Y/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2PLDUEIGRLMFY&keywords=long+torx+bit+set+socket+1/4&qid=1654699802&sprefix=long+torx+bit+set+socket+1/4,aps,207&sr=8-5&th=1
> 
> Just need the Viton O-Rings, Black RTV, probably an impact screwdriver (need one anyway) - I may just go the cut and splice method with the PCV breather tube if I can't get onto it, pretty low pressure so I'm sure clamps and fuel hose should be perfectly fine there, and an oil filter. Just ordered the oil, and have a shitload of the Amsoil ATF I use.
> 
> So I assume this can be done without removing any the exhaust, albeit with probably a little less room to maneuver the pan on?


Especially among the deleted crowd, has anyone attempted or considered deleting the PCV entirely and just making it into an old-fashioned breather or draft tube? It seems like ending the flow of oil vapor into the intercooler and intake could be beneficial, but would there be any harm that could come from doing a PCV delete on these?


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

MP81 said:


> Cool, this should do the trick then - the T30 is 1/4 drive, and I end up with a nice set: https://smile.amazon.com/GEARWRENCH-Drive-Long-Torx-Socket/dp/B001M0O18Y/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2PLDUEIGRLMFY&keywords=long+torx+bit+set+socket+1/4&qid=1654699802&sprefix=long+torx+bit+set+socket+1/4,aps,207&sr=8-5&th=1
> 
> Just need the Viton O-Rings, Black RTV, probably an impact screwdriver (need one anyway) - I may just go the cut and splice method with the PCV breather tube if I can't get onto it, pretty low pressure so I'm sure clamps and fuel hose should be perfectly fine there, and an oil filter. Just ordered the oil, and have a shitload of the Amsoil ATF I use.
> 
> So I assume this can be done without removing any the exhaust, albeit with probably a little less room to maneuver the pan on?


I’m deleted, but I’m pretty sure (if memory serves) that the dpf would likely have to be dropped.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ugh, ****, I was really hoping not to have to mess with the exhaust at all. It looks like the gasket should be an MLS one? If so, I should probably be good to re-use.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Started on this today (main update in the daily thread: https://www.cruzetalk.com/threads/the-hot-steamy-june-2022-chat-thread.255927/post-3337863)

Going to make myself an additional parts list of **** I need to buy when it comes time to reassemble this thing...assuming I can get it apart. I ended today trying to get the spindle up off the control arm ball joint - it has no intention of budging. Maybe some PB Blaster overnight will help...if not, maybe the torch on the spindle around the ball joint will. I'm thinking if it won't budge tomorrow, I may just unbolt the spindle from the strut and get my extra range of motion that way - honestly, I probably should have done that in the first place and not even messed with the ball joint.

-3 x nuts (exhaust to DPF flange)
-2 x nuts + 2 x bolts (flange rear of SCR)
-DPF to exhaust gasket
-Rear exhaust gasket
-Ball joint bolt and nut (destroyed the end of the bolt trying to get it out of the spindle, plus it is TTY anyway)
-Intermediate shaft sealing rings?
-Halfshaft lock ring?
-Axle nut washer? (There wasn't one, the nut is a flange-style nut)

I'm probably forgetting something, and/or may come across something else.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Just as an FYI - and it's possible they changed the bolts mid-run, but my four small bolts (including the two inside the bellhousing) are T_40_s. Good thing I got the set - even though the T40 is a 3/8 drive, it is long enough to not cause an issue with access.

So I posted this in the other thread, but my access plugs absolutely crumbled apart the second I looked at them - and one of them managed to wedge itself up _above_ the hole, so now I need to get that. Any idea what the part number is? I cannot for the life of me find them online anywhere.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Did anybody notice any extra effort required to install the oil pan with the new aftermarket seal? I put the oil pan back on for the night (just so the bottom end isn't sitting wide open in the driveway during fuzzy season) and it seems like it would need to really pull itself into place rather than being able to push all the way flush with the block.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I just fought with the pan for a couple hours tonight (in the 90 degree temps) and it absolutely does not seem to want to line up. If I take the seal out...lines right up.

Seal fits great in the oil pump, fits great in the pickup, won't fit in both. I'm about at my wit's end here. Any tips for getting this thing to fit? It's almost like it _will _line up (based on the witness marks on the pickup from the original seal), but the seal not being squishy seemingly won't let it get into a spot where it can slot into place. I did notice it seemed more inclined to do so if I set it in the oil pan first. Maybe I need to jack the engine up slightly and it'll give me a better shot over the subframe to align this? Or do I need to put some kind of bevel in the bottom surface of the seal (that goes into the pickup tube) so that it's more likely to scoot into place?

Any ideas? I really don't want to have to go get an OE seal because this defeats getting the new seal in the first place...and this is really not something I want to do again (nor do I expect I will).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

@boraz do you recall back to installing yours (if you did the aftermarket seal)? Did you really have to fiddle **** with it a lot to get everything to line up?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

MP81 said:


> @boraz do you recall back to installing yours (if you did the aftermarket seal)? Did you really have to fiddle **** with it a lot to get everything to line up?


It may sound like a dumb suggestion - but could you try to install it with the two parts inverted?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Tomko said:


> It may sound like a dumb suggestion - but could you try to install it with the two parts inverted?


As in set it in the oil pan first? I did try that and it _seemed_ like it wanted to line up a bit better that way. I need to get my borescope up in there with it set in there and take a look at it that way. It _felt_ like it was trying to line up better. That part of the seal _does_ have a bevel, and the O-ring isn't right near the end so by the time it gets to that it should be centered and shouldn't hurt the O-ring (I have been coating it in oil when I and testing all this).


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

For those who have not done this it is impossible to understand even though you explained it perfectly.

With that being said I would like to see good pictures of all parts involved including the OEM way.

I wouldn't modify any seal and any oring cannot probably or shouldn't have any nicks or damage. This is way to critical and once that pan is in place, impossible to see.

If it was mine and I had any doubt about a non OEM designed part and its performance, or lack of, I'd put a new OEM seal in it.

Something isn't right since it is giving you this much trouble.

Wish I could be of more help.

Oh yeah, I have read many of your post and I know you know what your doing (your posts have helped me many times) but the car is talking to you.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Nope, I'm just an idiot. It's essentially overconstrained with the new seal - the old one seals to the face around the pickup. The new one does that while also mating down into the hole. All it took was me leveling out the pan a bit with bolts and then tightening down on that corner and it popped right into place. I pulled it down to make sure nothing broke, nothing did, and did a second dry run and it was much better. It was mostly just me fighting myself and getting frustrated - just needed to take a break and go at it again the next day (yesterday). Reinstalled the pan this afternoon, all good to go there.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

I went the OEM route. Figured (fingers crossed) that the new seal would last another 8 years


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

MP81 said:


> Nope, I'm just an idiot. It's essentially overconstrained with the new seal - the old one seals to the face around the pickup. The new one does that while also mating down into the hole. All it took was me leveling out the pan a bit with bolts and then tightening down on that corner and it popped right into place. I pulled it down to make sure nothing broke, nothing did, and did a second dry run and it was much better. It was mostly just me fighting myself and getting frustrated - just needed to take a break and go at it again the next day (yesterday). Reinstalled the pan this afternoon, all good to go there.


Atta boy, sometimes it’s best to grab a beer and walk away from it for a bit.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Bvogt said:


> I went the OEM route. Figured (fingers crossed) that the new seal would last another 8 years


Honestly, ours looked pretty much fine for 8 years and ~123k miles. Didn't seem _too_ stiff, but I don't have a new one to compare to.



Bvogt said:


> Atta boy, sometimes it’s best to grab a beer and walk away from it for a bit.


Yup, exactly. It was Wednesday that I was having the trouble with it - it was 95 degrees outside, it was windy (which was also hot), and I was just getting majorly frustrated. Thought about the next day and went with a different focus and figured it right out. I'll bet the kids - and maybe the adults - in my sub learned some new words.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

@MP81 side note if you are looking for a new project, the company I work for makes F body chassis’ for that Camaro of yours.









1970–1981 F-Body, Firebird, Camaro Chassis - Schwartz Performance


Back to GM Chassis 1970–1981 F-Body, Firebird, Camaro Chassis Your F-Body's uni-body construction is inherently weak. Our G-Machine Chassis isn't. The sheet-metal that your suspension components and engine are mounted to begins to flex dramatically once you add more horsepower, higher...




www.schwartzperformance.com


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Bvogt said:


> @MP81 side note if you are looking for a new project, the company I work for makes F body chassis’ for that Camaro of yours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well **** that's fancy!


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

Bvogt said:


> I went the OEM route. Figured (fingers crossed) that the new seal would last another 8 years


Doubt I will ever do it at all but I'm with you.

I still think the seal failure is like lightning strike odds and also may be related to insane oil change intervals.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

15cruzediesel said:


> Doubt I will ever do it at all but I'm with you.
> 
> I still think the seal failure is like lightning strike odds and also may be related to insane oil change intervals.


For what it’s worth, mine looked just fine as well after 112k


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

15cruzediesel said:


> For those who have not done this it is impossible to understand even though you explained it perfectly.
> 
> With that being said I would like to see good pictures of all parts involved including the OEM way.
> 
> ...


I've had the Polish aftermarket oil pickup seal in my Cruze for about 15K miles now. It works great and since the O-rings are Viton they should stay pliable in oil containing diesel fuel and combustion byproducts. 









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Like the oil pickup seal, many of the external leaks (oil pan sensor and oil filter housing among others) on these cars are caused by GM using cheap rubber O-rings instead of Viton to save money.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> I've had the Polish aftermarket oil pickup seal in my Cruze for about 15K miles now. It works great and since the O-rings are Viton they should stay pliable in oil containing diesel fuel and combustion byproducts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've not noticed any leaks coming from the filter housing, thankfully, but yeah - the oil level sensor was plenty obvious that it has been leaking. The original seal was completely flat - was easy to slide the sensor in and out of the bore. With a new Viton seal on there it slotted in there with a nice "chunk" and some effort. I also replaced the PCV breather's O-Ring with a Viton one, though that O-ring looked better and wasn't leaking. People have also mentioned the dipstick tube O-Ring, but that looks to be further up and behind the DPF.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> @boraz do you recall back to installing yours (if you did the aftermarket seal)? Did you really have to fiddle **** with it a lot to get everything to line up?


havent done mine yet

will do in sept


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> havent done mine yet
> 
> will do in sept


Gotcha. Yours may vary, but mine needed some "assistance" via the nearest bolt to get the pickup-end of the seal to drop into the hole in the pickup, but then it was all good.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Gotcha. Yours may vary, but mine needed some "assistance" via the nearest bolt to get the pickup-end of the seal to drop into the hole in the pickup, but then it was all good.


videos talk aboot how the pan has to be 'angled' a bit to assemble (with the oem seal) so its not surprising the new device added some issue, i have an oem seal as well partly to compare the old one, and partly to use in case i got cold feet aboot the new device


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> videos talk aboot how the pan has to be 'angled' a bit to assemble (with the oem seal) so its not surprising the new device added some issue, i have an oem seal as well partly to compare the old one, and partly to use in case i got cold feet aboot the new device


Yeah, there's a lot of angling involved, especially in order to not get RTV everywhere.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Bvogt said:


> I went the OEM route. Figured (fingers crossed) that the new seal would last another 8 years


That's the direction I'm planning on going when I get to the job later this summer. I figure if the factory seal got me the first 9 years and 200k miles, that the odds of the car getting to 350-400k (when I would need to repeat the job) before it gets totaled by a deer or has some other catastrophic failure are pretty low.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

revjpeterson said:


> That's the direction I'm planning on going when I get to the job later this summer. I figure if the factory seal got me the first 9 years and 200k miles, that the odds of the car getting to 350-400k (when I would need to repeat the job) before it gets totaled by a deer or has some other catastrophic failure are pretty low.


The condition of our OEM seal after 123,600 miles - the last ~7.5 years being mostly city (Fuelly shows the total mix being 58% - we went from driving 100 miles each day, mostly highway, to 30-35 miles each way, almost all city - but it added up right at the onset) would support that theory. 

That said, the aftermarket piece is very nice and should do the job even better - it's just significantly less assembly-friendly, and obviously much more expensive than what is initially spec'd.


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

15cruzediesel said:


> I still think the seal failure is like lightning strike odds and also may be related to insane oil change intervals.


I checked my logs. I always change the oil before getting to 0 on the oil life gauge. Getting to 0 is just about 7,500 miles and from ~50k miles when I got the car until my crankshaft bearings going out all of my oil changes were done between 6 and 7k miles.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

Sygma6 said:


> I checked my logs. I always change the oil before getting to 0 on the oil life gauge. Getting to 0 is just about 7,500 miles and from ~50k miles when I got the car until my crankshaft bearings going out all of my oil changes were done between 6 and 7k miles.


Sorry to hear that.

How many miles on the car before it happened?


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

15cruzediesel said:


> How many miles on the car before it happened?


It happened at about 90k miles. When I had my indy look at it I specifically asked them to check that seal for the oil pickup snorkel and was told it was still pliable. I still haven't taken apart the old engine but I suspect the variable displacement pump got stuck in a low flow setting.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

15cruzediesel said:


> I still think the seal failure is like lightning strike odds and also may be related to insane oil change intervals.


It could be. Based on the relatively small number of US Diesels we have seen fail, I suspect it's something beyond just the seal itself being the problem (but which either combines with the seal problem or causes the seal problem). Things like oil quality, low oil levels, short trips, going long periods without running, fuel dilution, etc. have come to mind as things that could degrade or dry out the seal, but I'm nothing to lead me to a particular direction as to the source. 

I always changed at 7500 when using Penzoil Euro L and Castrol Edge C3 while it was under warranty. After 100k, I switched to AMSOil Euro and I change the oil twice a year (spring/fall), which averages 15k between changes. I'm about to roll 204k


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

Has anybody installed one of these aftermarket Polish aluminum seals? I've seen & read about the smaller aluminum Polish part, but I haven't seen one that bolts in like this; thoughts? Think it would fit our cars in the US?









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Saab 9-5 (YS3G) 2.0 TTiD, engine A20DTR 190 HP (2010-2012). Saab 9-5 (YS3G) 2.0 TTiD, engine A20DTH 160 HP (2010-2012). Saab 9-3 (YS3G) 1.9 TTiD, engine Z19DTR 180 HP (2008-2012). Oil Pump Aluminum sleeve - the seal connecting the oil pump to the pick up pipe supported by triple sealing for...



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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Yep, that's been brought up a few times. I think a couple guys here have them installed. The nice part about the kit you listed is it also includes new seals for things like the oil level sensor which is a known leaker on these.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> Yep, that's been brought up a few times. I think a couple guys here have them installed. The nice part about the kit you listed is it also includes new seals for things like the oil level sensor which is a known leaker on these.


That one is actually a little different from the one I installed in that it bolts into the pickup tube


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

MP81 said:


> That one is actually a little different from the one I installed in that it bolts into the pickup tube


Yeah I've heard a lot about the Polish part that _doesn't_ bolt in (just kinda rests between the pickup tube and the oil pump). I was wondering if anybody had experience with the part that does bolt-in. I think it's made by the same people and I hadn't seen or heard of it before now - perhaps it's a redesign? Curious if anybody who's done the job could chime in on the potential advantages/disadvantages of this bolted-in part in comparison to the other (more common) polish part..?

Also, I've found several guides, write-ups, & videos on the forum regarding how to pull the oil pump out; was wondering if there's a preferred guide that most people use? When I have some time off next month, I will be pulling the oil pan and replacing the timing belt components in one single maintenance effort, so I'm trying to prepare for everything. Special parts needed, seals to replace, etc.


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

BDCCruze said:


> Yep, that's been brought up a few times. I think a couple guys here have them installed. The nice part about the kit you listed is it also includes new seals for things like the oil level sensor which is a known leaker on these.


Yeah my car sill has pretty low mileage, so no leaks yet.. But if I'm already gonna be down there, might as well work to prevent future leaks. I remember reading somewhere that GM didn't use Viton seals from the factory, so replacing these with Viton seals should make future leaks less likely..?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It's a pretty solid fit with the O-rings without the bolts:


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I didn't notice it was a different one at first, I see it cost about $20 more but looks like both are still available. I'm wondering if the double seal on the bolt in model has a better long term fix.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> It's a pretty solid fit with the O-rings without the bolts:
> 
> View attachment 300209


did you use any sealant on that part, or just friction fit?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> did you use any sealant on that part, or just friction fit?


Just friction fit - with a little oil as lubricant for the seals. Obviously it doesn't snap into the pickup tube side or anything, but it held in the oil pump side quite nicely. Makes it a bit of a bitch to reinstall though due to having an extra level of constraint the original doesn't all the while with a pan that does not go on at all straight due to everything in the way.


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## tacat4 (2 mo ago)

I just purchased the bolt on model from the polish company.. Based on their description and photos, the friction fit part reduces the inside diameter of the oil passage, whereas the bolt on model is full diameter oil flow... Not sure if it matters, but I ordered it anyway to try out.

First post here, just bought a used 2014 Cruze diesel with 70,000 miles on it


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

tacat4 said:


> I just purchased the bolt on model from the polish company.. Based on their description and photos, the friction fit part reduces the inside diameter of the oil passage, whereas the bolt on model is full diameter oil flow... Not sure if it matters, but I ordered it anyway to try out.
> 
> First post here, just bought a used 2014 Cruze diesel with 70,000 miles on it


Yeah I ordered he bolt-in part today. Only thing I don’t like is how it doesn’t sit into the pickup tube at all, but that shouldn’t really matter.. hope shipping is quick so I can get started next month 👍


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## tacat4 (2 mo ago)

afineAmerican said:


> Yeah I ordered he bolt-in part today. Only thing I don’t like is how it doesn’t sit into the pickup tube at all, but that shouldn’t really matter.. hope shipping is quick so I can get started next month 👍


Yea we will see how well it works, mine shipped out this morning from Poland. Currently stockpiling parts for all the regular fixes that these cars need since I have no idea on the history of my Cruze. Sounds like we have similar cars that we both recently purchased...


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

afineAmerican said:


> Yeah I ordered he bolt-in part today. Only thing I don’t like is how it doesn’t sit into the pickup tube at all, but that shouldn’t really matter.. hope shipping is quick so I can get started next month 👍


As long as it has a Viton O-ring on the bottom where it mounts against the tube it should be fine - the factory one doesn't sit into the tube either - just has a "skirt" that compresses against it to seal to it (you know, until it doesn't, supposedly).


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

MP81 said:


> As long as it has a Viton O-ring on the bottom where it mounts against the tube it should be fine - the factory one doesn't sit into the tube either - just has a "skirt" that compresses against it to seal to it (you know, until it doesn't, supposedly).


Good to hear. For what it’s worth, I messaged the seller and they confirmed it is a new, redesigned part.


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## tacat4 (2 mo ago)

Here are a couple pictures of the bolt in oil seal from Poland. Double o-rings on top and a single o-ring on the bottom


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

tacat4 said:


> Here are a couple pictures of the bolt in oil seal from Poland. Double o-rings on top and a single o-ring on the bottom
> 
> View attachment 300280
> View attachment 300281


Hard to tell in the picture, are the o-rings black or brown?


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## tacat4 (2 mo ago)

afineAmerican said:


> Hard to tell in the picture, are the o-rings black or brown?


brown


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## afineAmerican (Oct 20, 2021)

@MP81 curious - were your o-rings also brown? Did you trust the o-rings that came with the part, or did you purchase Viton o-rings separately?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Mine is supposed to have Viton, per the description:









Vauxhall Insignia , Astra 2.0 CDTI Oil Pump Sump Seal / oil pick up seal | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vauxhall Insignia , Astra 2.0 CDTI Oil Pump Sump Seal / oil pick up seal at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## tacat4 (2 mo ago)

got the timing belt finished yesterday so I started working on the oil pump seal replacement today, I think most people are using the wrong sockets on their bolts, they are not standard Torx heads. The oil pan bolts on mine are TP-45 (Torx plus 45), the two hidden are TP-40 (Torx Plus 40), and the two bolts on the side of the transmission are E-14 (external Torx 14)

I do have the redesigned oil seal from Poland, I purchased a new set of Viton orings off Amazon so I can be sure they are good to go. The o-ring size is 2mm x 25mm, 3 of them are needed for the bolt on part that I posted pictures of above.

edit: got the pan dropped and the bolt on oil pickup seal installed today. It was a bit frustrating until I figured out the correct way to set the pan up into place, the bolt on seal didn't want to set into place at first. You must slightly angle the pan inserting the oil seal side first and then level the pan out to push up into place. I kept trying to set it into place evenly and it was not working.

I would suggest purchasing extra o-rings, I dry fit the pan and damaged several orings, luckily I had a pack of 25, so by the time I figured it all out I was sure they went in cleanly and without damage.

edit2: also suggest replacing the pcv hose bolt with a standard hex head for future ease, it is a M6x20 or M6x25, either will work.


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