# Audio Upgrade (complete noob) help



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

That box is such a piece of crap. Do yourself a huge favor and build your own box or have someone with a some level of skill build you one. I'll even design the box for you. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that you could spend $50 on a sub box shipped and get something that's worth your time.

Kicker makes good amps, but their subs are terrible. That said, their amps are a tad bit overpriced. I would have used something else, but it will work. 

The head unit is garbage. Go with a Pioneer, Alpine, or JVC if you MUST use an aftermarket head unit. I would highly recommend you consider keeping your factory head unit, for many reasons. There are many functions you'll lose that are integrated into the factory radio that you won't be able to adjust if you remove the radio. Just get a line out converter to provide an RCA channel to hook your amp up to. 

How much will it cost you to get it installed? Depends on how good of a job you expect the installer to do. You could take it to best buy and get ripped off and have a completely craptastic install, or you could spend a good chunk of change and get it installed the right way.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks for the reply, what should I look for in a box?

That amp is 349.99 but I can get it for 275 shipped New, seemed like a great deal.

The subs are alpines type r's

My buddy said I needed an aftermarket to get the most out of my system, I'd much rather leave the stock in. Any truth to this?

and again thanks for your time buddy


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Thanks for the reply, what should I look for in a box?
> 
> That amp is 349.99 but I can get it for 275 shipped New, seemed like a great deal.
> 
> ...


What should you look for in a box? Something made by someone who knows what they're doing. Rule of thumb is that if you paid less than $100 for the box locally, it's probably crap. Also, not all subs work well in both sealed and ported boxes. I'd have to model the subs you chose specifically to tell you how well it would work. 

$275 new for that amp is a good price. For that price, I'd go for it. They are solid amps. 

Why are you going with the Alpine Type Rs? A better question I guess would be what are you trying to get out of these? Just plain loud (SPL), or a bit more sound quality?

If you're going for raw power, you'll be much better served with a pair of Sundown Audio SA-12s for the same price. Those subs take the term "violent bass" to a whole new level. 

Your buddy is partially correct. With older systems, you really did need an aftermarket head unit to get the most out of the system. A great example is my wife's 2000 Regal GSE. The factory radio is complete garbage. There was a huge improvement in sound quality just replacing it with an aftermarket Pioneer unit. The cruze however isn't the same; the factory radio is actually pretty good. Not only do you have XM and built in bluetooth functionality, but you also have the USB and Aux input for audio. The sound quality that comes out of it is excellent. 

What you need is one of these:







Amazon.com: PAC AA-GM44 Amplifier Integration Interface for Select 2010 and Up GM Vehicles: Automotive

Where are you located? I may be able to hook you up with a good sub box. Believe me when I tell you that the box is crucial to how good the sub will sound.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

I live in Michigan near Detroit.

I was looking at the Kickers compvr 12s, then after research decided the Alpine type r 12s would produce much better sound quality.

I'm looking for big bump with great sound quality. If I wanted outrageous bump, from research I'd just go with a kicker solo x.

So basically I'm looking for 2 12s that will produce bump but have quality sound. After a day or so of research, the type r seemed better suited than the kicker compvr.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> I live in Michigan near Detroit.
> 
> I was looking at the Kickers compvr 12s, then after research decided the Alpine type r 12s would produce much better sound quality.
> 
> ...


The Alpine 12" and 10" type R subs are more general purpose, leaning toward SPL purpose subs. I wouldn't call them SQ subs, but I've used them in the past and they're good subs.

I don't even touch anything by Kicker as far as subs go even if I need raw SPL. For raw SPL, I look at Sundown and Digital Designs. For general purpose, I look at RE, Fi, SSA, and a few others I can't name off the top of my head. For SQ on a "budget" (Morels and Focals are unaffordable for most), I look at Image Dynamics and Arc Audio, and specifically the 8" Alpine Type R. For SQL, I look at the JL W7 and the IDMax. 

Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks again for the knowledgeable insight. If I wanted to get 1 Morel ultimo 12 now, and another in 4 weeks, which amp would get the most out of these 2 subs? Also, I'm looking for a one time bad ass setup. I don't plan on upgrading every couple of months, and I'd like for everything to work for a solid couple of years. Will Morels last? Thank you!

What would be better, 2 Morel ultimo 12 or 2 IDMAX 12?

Basically if I had around $900 to spend on subs, what would you go with that could fit in the entire trunk of the cruze LS 2012. 2 of something, 4 of something? Sorry just getting really excited haha, I'm white as **** (dont try to be black lol) and all these kids at work are gonna cry when this project is completed..

I'm leaning towardsan sql setup, After watching a few vids it seems like the Morels dont "bump" as in shake your car.. am I correct in assuming this? If so would you pick 2 JLW7 12 or 2 IDMAX 12? At which OHM, and which amp?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Thanks again for the knowledgeable insight. If I wanted to get 1 Morel ultimo 12 now, and another in 4 weeks, which amp would get the most out of these 2 subs? Also, I'm looking for a one time bad ass setup. I don't plan on upgrading every couple of months, and I'd like for everything to work for a solid couple of years. Will Morels last? Thank you!
> 
> What would be better, 2 Morel ultimo 12 or 2 IDMAX 12?
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong, the Morel Ultimo (and I mean the Ultimo, not the Ultimo SC) will hands down get you better SQ than an IDMax. However, an IDQ V2 (if you can find them used) will compete directly with a Morel Ultimo for a fraction of the cost. One guy on here bought two IDQ15 V2 subs that he'll be making an infinite baffle setup in his Cruze out of and I am seriously jealous. I'll be running one IDQ15 in a sealed box, but his will sound incredible. The IDQV2 and Morel Ultimo subs will sound transparent. You'll get in your car, turn it on, and you'll think something's wrong. You'll ask yourself "where's the bass?" What you'll realize shortly after is that there's plenty of bass; it's full, rich, and accurate. What you now here is just the bass, whereas before, you heard both the subwoofer and the bass. It's a function of distortion, transient response, and tonal accuracy. You go from hearing the sub, to hearing the bass, and when you've heard what I'm talking about, your jaw will drop. 

The Morel Ultimo will do that, but for a very hefty price tag. They are extremely well built subs, but IMO not a great value unless you have lots of money to burn. That said, it might be hard to find an IDQ V2 sub. If you're looking for some thing similar, to an IDQ V2 sub, look at the IDQ V3 sub. The IDQ V3 subs are also excellent and will get you great sound quality, but will get louder due to a higher excursion. 

Here's how I explained the difference between the IDQ V2 and IDMax V3 subs. The IDQ subs are like ballerinas. Extremely precise, detailed, elegant, and refined. Beautiful, musical, and graceful. They redefine what you thought was sound quality. A lot of them can hurt you, but brawn isn't their strongest aspect. The IDMax is a bouncer with feelings. He can sympathize with you when your girlfriend dumps you, but he can also kick your ass. Badly. 

The IDMax is a beast. At lower levels, it's extremely low moving mass will sound like an IDQ sub, but it will have the extra ecursion and motor strength to take you to the next level. 1" of electrical xmax and 3.8" of total excursion. It is one **** of a sub. I own both the IDMax and the IDQ subs and can honestly say I'm torn between them. On one hand, the IDMax has some serious power, but on the other hand it's more expensive and my two IDQ10 V2s sound very beautiful. One thing to note is that the IDMax is a direct competitor to the JL W7, but everyone I've talked to who has actually used both prefers the IDMax for both power and sound quality. 

If you had $900 to spend on just subs, here are options you should consider:

Two IDMax12 V3 subs ($400 each on sonicelectronix)
Four IDQ10 V3 subs ($210 each on sonicelectronix)
Eight Alpine Type-R 8" subs ($95 each on sonicelectronix)

The two IDMax12 subs will have a cone area of 1100 square cm
The four IDQ10 V2 subs will have a cone area of 1400 square cm
The eight Alpine Type-R 8" subs will have cone area of 1600 square cm

Why do I recommend the Alpine 8" specifically? This is a whole different animal from the 10" or 12" variants. It works very well in small boxes, has a healthy amount of excursion, and it has a very strong motor for the moving mass it has to move. This puts it well into SQ territory, while the 10" and 12" subs are nothing like it. Which one you with depends on how much space you actually want to sacrifice. The IDQ12 subs will take up the least amount of space, while the Alpine subs will take up the most. 

What amp to use? Something that meets your power needs made by Sundown Audio. Their Class D amps are nothing short of spectacular. 

Let me know if you want me to explain anything better or have any questions.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Excellent info (the analogy was epic), after more research IDMAX is highly preferred over the JLW7, I'm very glad to see you agree with that.

I'm leaning towards the 2 IDMAX 12'S. Should I get 2 or 4 ohm versions? Why? and for those two subs/ohm selection which amp would be best specifically?

Also ported or sealed? Thanks again!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Excellent info (the analogy was epic), after more research IDMAX is highly preferred over the JLW7, I'm very glad to see you agree with that.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the 2 IDMAX 12'S. Should I get 2 or 4 ohm versions? Why? and for those two subs/ohm selection which amp would be best specifically?
> 
> Also ported or sealed? Thanks again!


Definitely go sealed. I've been designing sub boxes for a few years now, but it seems like Image Dynamics definitely has it right as far as what they recommend for those subs, so build what's specified on the spec sheet when you get them. 

You should get the version that meets your needs for amplification. In this case, it will be easier to make great gobs of power at 1ohm than it will at 2ohm. You'd want the Dual 4 ohm version, which you can then wire to 2ohms each, and combine them for a 1 ohm load to the amp.

Which amp you go with will depend on your budget. I'd personally recommend the SAZ-1500D by Sundown Audio. Sure, it says only 1500W, but it bench tests *1970W at 12.8 volts*. Nevermind what it will bench test at the 14.4 volts your car will run at (assuming you can keep the voltage from dropping). This amp would be perfectly suitable for those subs and is worth every dollar. 

http://www.woofersetc.com/p-9682-saz-1500d-v2-sundown-audio-1500w-1-channel-monoblock-amplifier.aspx

http://www.carstereogiant.com/Amplifiers/Mono/Sundown-Audio-644/Sundown-Audio-SAZ-1500D

I'd call each of those places to make sure they have it in stock since it seems these fly pretty fast.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

OK great, I'm looking for a one time build as I mentioned before so this is what my imagination is running with.. I will be using the entire trunk of my car for this as I have no need for it.

2 IDMAX 12'S
4 Alpine type r 8's

or should I just go 3 IDMAX?

*Dumb questions alert*: 

Will adding 4 Type r's to the 2 IDMAX 12'S make a huge difference over just the 2 IDMAX 12'S?

Will the SAZ 1500D power all 6 of these subs to their optimum potential?

What will I need to not blow up anything in my car? A seperate battery? Thanks again.

Trunk design in my imagination:
Two type r's on left, Two idmax in the middle, Two type r's on the right

This video has me leaning towards 3 IDMAX 12'S (Video is even using the same amp you suggested)
Will the SAZ Power 3 IDMAX to their optimum potential? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQaN3zzGkqY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Again thank you for all your help, I can tell you know your stuff when it comes to this..


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> OK great, I'm looking for a one time build as I mentioned before so this is what my imagination is running with.. I will be using the entire trunk of my car for this as I have no need for it.
> 
> 2 IDMAX 12'S
> 4 Alpine type r 8's
> ...


Before you continue, I'd like to warn you about what you're getting into. To start, one IDMax*10* is plenty loud for me, and I used to run a 15" Hifonics ported SPL box. That got old. You're about to have nothing but bass and you're about to spend a huge amount of money to have it. This will require a considerable amount of money in your front sound stage if you want it to even be heard over the bass. Two IDMax12s would be extremely loud as it is; loud enough to do some hearing damage. 

If you ran Alpine Type-Rs in addition to the IDMax12s, you'd need another amp as you couldn't use the same amp for both of them. That's more money. You could run 3 IDMax12s, but you'd need to step it up to a SAZ-2500D, which is now a $1000 amplifier. 

If you're desperate to have more volume and use your trunk space, stick with the SAZ-1500D and run 4 IDQ12V3 drivers. 

The problem with going into heavy power loads is that you now have to run big ass wiring. As it is, 0/1 gauge wiring will have to be run to your engine bay, which is thick and expensive and at this power level, you'll need copper. I could explain this in very great detail, but to cut it short, you're reaching the limits of what your car can produce as far as electricity to run these subs. At very loud volumes, you will almost certainly see your lights start dimming, which means the alternator is giving all it can and the power is now being pulled from the battery. You may find yourself needing an upgraded alternator, but I'm not sure. If you do go with anything bigger than what I've recommended, expect to factor in the cost of a heavy duty alternator, and I won't be able to give you any advice on that because I don't build SPL cars; I build SQ cars. 

The IDMax subs have 3.8" of mechanical excursion and I personally haven't even reached that yet. Check out some videos of these things, they move a LOT of air.

Seriously man, stick with what I recommended. Get 2 IDMax12s or 4 IDQ12s. I threw the Alpine 8" subs in there just to give you another option if you really wanted to use Alpine subs. I personally prefer the ID subs because they're built in the US and the have the best damned customer service ever. 

I bought my IDMax10 sub used, and the previous owner abused it somehow and the cone went out of alignment and started rubbing. It overheated my amp on several occasions till I took it out and realized I also had a dust cap leak. I contacted ID and they told me it was impossible as the dust caps are sealed in 3 different locations and are structural to the sub. They sent me a new cone free of charge. If you haven't yet noticed, the IDMax and IDQ (v3) can be re-coned in about 15 minutes with nothing more than a Phillips screwdriver. Very impressive design. There are only handfull of subs that have ever been made that can do that. The new cone they sent me had a defective spider, so I ended up sending them the sub. They re-coned it for free, aligned everything, and it has been working well for about 8 months now and still sounds perfect. The amazing thing about this is, they never asked for a proof of purchase, never asked where I got it, when I got it, or what I did with it. They acknowledged the dust cap leak was an assembly problem and they took responsibility. 

Aside from the IDMax10, I also own 3 IDQ10 V2 subs as well as one IDQ15 V2 sub and even having been built 10 years ago, they're all in perfect condition and sound excellent. 

Going back to my recommendation, I don't think you'll want the headache of building an SPL car, which is the direction you're going in if you dream about more than two IDMax12s. Get set up with those two subs first, and let's move on to your front sound stage. I seriously doubt you'll feel that you're lacking in bass output.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> This video has me leaning towards 3 IDMAX 12'S (Video is even using the same amp you suggested)
> Will the SAZ Power 3 IDMAX to their optimum potential? Late Nite Tip Excursion Test - YouTube
> 
> Again thank you for all your help, I can tell you know your stuff when it comes to this..


That video uses IDQ V2 drivers, not IDMax drivers. 

Just saw your edit, so I'll respond to that as well:

You could run 3 IDMax12s if you wanted to, but I don't think it's necessary. Spend your money on your front sound stage instead. If you insisted though, the SAZ-1500D should power 3 of them just fine, although if money wasn't an issue, I'd go with the SAZ-2500D. Keep in mind, even though they can thermally handle 1000W of power each, they will never really see that power unless you put a sine wave through them at maximum volume. They will reach their mechanical excursion long before they reach their thermal power handling.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok, youre making this really easy to narrow down.

So which would be better for someone if they never wanted to upgrade their subs again? 2 idmax12s or 4 idq*v3*(12s or 10s?)

The idqv2 are gonna be impossible to find unless i wait a search for a long time


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok, youre making this really easy to narrow down.
> 
> So which would be better for someone if they never wanted to upgrade their subs again? 2 idmax12s or 4 idq*v3*(12s or 10s?)
> 
> The idqv2 are gonna be impossible to find unless i wait a search for a long time


The IDQ V2s are indeed going to be difficult to find. I usually only see one or two of them on ebay every month if that, and the IDQ15s are pretty rare. Whenever one comes up, I share the link with anyone looking to buy a sub so they can snag it before someone else does. 

Which ones would be better for someone if they never wanted to upgrade? In order of what I'd do if I were you

1. 4 IDQ12 V3s if you can fit them
2. 4 IDQ10 V3s if you can fit them
3. 2 IDMax12s

Hands down, the IDQ12s will get louder and will sound cleaner. You're talking about more SQ oriented subs, and with double the cone area. It's a no-brainer. Even the IDQ10s will have more cone area. Better SQ than the IDMax subs without a doubt. The IDMax subs are what you'd want if you wanted to get the absolute most amount of power out of a specific amount of trunk space. I took a lot of drives between Chicago and California for a while and had to fill my trunk with stuff, so space was a premium and I wanted the most hard-hitting sub that I could get in as small of a box as I could get while still retaining what I'd consider to be acceptable SQ at lower volumes, and the IDMax10 fit the bill. 

The biggest issue for you will be space. Just because the trunk may have the space, doesn't mean the box (or boxes) will physically fit in the trunk through the trunk opening or through the back doors while they're down, if you know what I mean. This is a mistake I've seen a lot of people make. They'll measure their trunk width and height, and build a box, then try to put it in their trunk and realize it won't physically fit through the opening. 

Figure out how much space you need for the subs, then build your box (or boxes) out of cardboard and fit them in your trunk. If they fit, you're good to go. If not, go down the list I gave you above. Start with the IDQ12s, then the IDQ10s, then the IDMax12s. 

I sent Dan (the guy who helped me with my IDMax last year) an e-mail after calling him to ask a few questions just now regarding the spec sheets for all 3 of those subs. When he responds, I'll let you know how much much gross volume you'll need per sub.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

haha you're awesome man thanks!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Figure about 1.25-1.5 cubic feet for the IDQ12, .7-.9 cubic feet for the IDQ10, and 1.25-1.5 cubic feet for the IDMax12. I'll confirm this when I get the spec sheets from Dan at ID, but for now, estimate if they'll fit using those numbers.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

If I ever pulled the stock equipment out of my Eco, it would only be to put my McIntosh gear in it. Its completely insane what you can do with 8s or 10s with this gear.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> If I ever pulled the stock equipment out of my Eco, it would only be to put my McIntosh gear in it. Its completely insane what you can do with 8s or 10s with this gear.


I never believed in going that far with car audio. You can get the same results with a bit of know-how. Example:

My car's front stage will be using Dayton 7" Midwoofers and extremely rugged Morel tweeters up in the front sound stage. Everyone says it's the crossovers that make the magic happen, and I've got that covered with a MiniDSP digital processor. Tuning will be done with my Dayton MM-6 measurement microphone and the MiniDSP's 31-band equalizer. Two old school amps will power the tweeters and midwoofers. Active > Passive every day of the week no matter how much you spend on a passive system. You could spend $1000 on a set of Focal or Rainbow passive front components and I will still blow you away for under $250 because the way I do it, I have the ability to precisely dial in the frequency response of the system so it is measurably flat. That's not something you can do with passive components because every car will respond differently. Passive crossovers design the crossover points around the capability of the speakers and have little to no equalization. Active crossovers design the crossover points and equalization around both the capability of the speakers and the cabin transfer function of that specific car. Once you go active, you can never go back to passive.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I got the email back from Dan. Shoot me a PM with your email address and I can forward you the manuals for all 3 of those subs. 

Here are the specs you'll need either way:
IDQ12: .88 (normal), 1.0 (audiophile) cubic feet
IDQ10: .65 (compact), .75 (normal), 1.1 (audiophile) cubic feet 
IDMax12: 1.0 (compact), 1.3 (normal) cubic feet


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Would this be ideal considering it fits in my trunk and is 1.0 cu feet per sub?
http://www.caraudiodeals.com/qbass124t-p-1692.html


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Would this be ideal considering it fits in my trunk and is 1.0 cu feet per sub?
> QBASS124T Quad 12" Enclosure : 4 Sealed Chambers, Fits 4 12" Subwoofers


NO! Don't even think about buying a pre-fabbed box. Seriously, you're about to spend nearly $1000 on subs and $500 on an amp to buy a shitty $95 box out of 5/8" MDF?

You'll need to build your own box, out of 3/4" MDF, with a double thick recessed baffle, and adequate bracing on the inside. I have never, and I seriously mean never seen a well-built pre-fabbed box. 

I can teach you how to build them correctly if you need me to, but don't insult these subs with a crappy box.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

haha how much time is required to build one/cost?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> haha how much time is required to build one/cost?


Depends on how good you are and how many tools you have at your disposal. I can build a sub box in a 2-3 hours if I already have the materials, and I've been doing this for a long time. 

Cost? Figure $30-$40 for a 4x8 sheet of MDF. You can get the guys at Home Depot to cut it for you don't have a table saw or a way to take it all home. Figure another $20 or so for the carpeting, $6 for a good terminal, then you'll need some acoustic foam for the inside of the box so factor in another $20 or so, a couple of cans of 3M adhesive spray and some screws for $20. 

I usually charge $150 for a simple single-sub sealed box, but it's built so it will never resonate or flex and will allow that sub to reach it's full potential. My boxes are strong enough to be used as jackstands. 

As a minimum, you need something to cut a hole with, whether its a dremel with a circle cutting jig, a router, or a jigsaw. You also need some bar clamps (they're cheap and very good on harbor freight). 

I hope you didn't think that box building would be easy. The box will make or break the way your sub sounds. It needs to be done right. 

Out of curiosity, where are you located?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Taylor Michigan


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Taylor Michigan


Ever coming to the Chicago area? I could build you a box or set of boxes that would fit in the Cruze for those subs. Just a thought if you really don't want to build it yourself. It would be one tank of gas for you round trip.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

How many miles is your house from Taylor Michigan 48180?

Also would having 1 box with 4 subs be better than say 2 boxes with 2 subs each or 4 boxes with one sub each? Whats the difference? Wiring them?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> How many miles is your house from Taylor Michigan 48180?
> 
> Also would having 1 box with 4 subs be better than say 2 boxes with 2 subs each or 4 boxes with one sub each? Whats the difference? Wiring them?


My zip code is 278 miles away from your zip code. You'd have a little over 4 hours of a drive to get here. 60451.

2 boxes might be easier to fit into the car, but I'd have to determine the exact volume. Keep in mind, you're looking at a considerable amount of weight. You'd need 2 people just to move this thing. I really do build tank-like sub boxes. Having two separate boxes would make it much easier to move.

The 3.5 cubic foot ported box I used to have with my old 15" sub weighed 80-90lbs. 

Wiring wouldn't be an issue. That can be figured out either way.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

*278 miles away*
If it weren't for that I'd be all about it haha.

This place is like 5 mins from me, do you think they look legit?
CUSTOM SUBWOOFER BOXES : Sound Kraft Audio, Inc., Custom Car Audio and Video - Custom Subwoofer Boxes are our Specialty.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> *278 miles away*
> If it weren't for that I'd be all about it haha.
> 
> This place is like 5 mins from me, do you think they look legit?
> CUSTOM SUBWOOFER BOXES : Sound Kraft Audio, Inc., Custom Car Audio and Video - Custom Subwoofer Boxes are our Specialty.


They look decent. Can't say for sure as they don't seem to actually design boxes. Walk in there and ask them for a quote. Build to the audiophile spec, which is 1 cubic foot per sub. Ask for a double thick baffle with a recess, routed specifically for the IDQ12's cutout and outer diameter, with adequate internal bracing. Then come back and let me know what the quote is. You might find that 278 miles isn't that far away after all...


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok, Would installing the SAZ1500DV2 to my stock radio enhance it at all?

Basically what I'm asking is I'll have the money for this whole setup by the end of the 1st week next month.
Should I buy the SAZ first and install it, then the subs 2 by 2? Or it doesnt work like that?


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## oolowrideoo (Mar 2, 2011)

Any interest in this system? I'm looking to sell.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok, Would installing the SAZ1500DV2 to my stock radio enhance it at all?
> 
> Basically what I'm asking is I'll have the money for this whole setup by the end of the 1st week next month.
> Should I buy the SAZ first and install it, then the subs 2 by 2? Or it doesnt work like that?


The amplifier amplifies the subwoofers. Installing it before you install the subs won't do anything but save you the time of installing it later.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

OK so If I purchase The amp, 2 idq12's, sub enclosure and the pac aa-gm44 what else will I need to get that installed? Wires, etc.. Also is installing all of that something I'd be able to do? Thanks much.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> OK so If I purchase The amp, 2 idq12's, sub enclosure and the pac aa-gm44 what else will I need to get that installed? Wires, etc.. Also is installing all of that something I'd be able to do? Thanks much.


Power wires. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 20 feet to be safe:
Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 1/0 RED POWER /GROUND WIRE

Ground wire. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 4 feet to be safe:
Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 1/0 GAUGE BLUE POWER/GROUND WIRE

Distribution Block (use one 150A fuse and two 100A fuses):
Fuse Block, Fuse Blocks

RCA Wires: you'll need one set for subs and one set for front speaker amp. Might as well get two:
Knukonceptz product detail for KLARITY RCA CABLE 2 CHANNEL RCA KABLE 5 METER

Screw ring terminals (one for battery and one for ground)
Knukonceptz product detail for SET SCREW RING TERMINALS - 1/0 GAUGE PAIR

Speaker wire - get 10 feet to be safe:
Knukonceptz product detail for KORD ULTRA FLEX 10 GAUGE SPEAKER WIRE


This is just for the sub and sub amp install. If you are planning on upgrading front speakers and adding an amp as well, you'll need a few more odds and ends. Let me know and I can provide links for those too.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Power wires. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 20 feet to be safe:
> Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 1/0 RED POWER /GROUND WIRE
> 
> Ground wire. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 4 feet to be safe:
> ...


Can I try to find these else where for cheaper? Or may it be cheaper having them installed professionally?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Can I try to find these else where for cheaper? Or may it be cheaper having them installed professionally?


Don't cheap out on power. You can get it cheaper as copper clad aluminum, but that won't meet your power needs, and you NEED a fuseholder either way. I'm using 0/1 gauge CCA, but I also only need 500W for the sub, not 2000W. This stuff is actually extremely well priceded. You can't beat their prices without buying complete junk.

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Would there be any disadvantage to getting the 2 ohm version and using the saz1500?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Would there be any disadvantage to getting the 2 ohm version and using the saz1500?


2ohm version of what? The subs? You need to wire them to a load that the amplifier can deliver. 

The SAZ1500D will deliver (according to Sundown), 1500W RMS @ 1ohm, 800W RMS @ 2ohm, and 400W RMS @ 4ohm. 

Now, subs are wired in series or parallel. You can either double the impedance or halve it. If you have a dual 4 ohm sub, you can wire it to 2 ohms or 8 ohms. 

If you have two dual 4ohm subs that are each wired to 2ohms, you can wire those to 1ohms or 4ohms. your final impedance on the subs will determine how much power your amplifier will deliver to those subs. You then choose the specific sub (dual 2 ohm or dual 4 ohm) around what your amplifier can handle. 

In this case, to run 4 IDQ12 drivers, you'd get the Dual 2 ohm versions. You wire each to 4 ohms. Wire each pair together to 2 ohms per pair, and run both of those pairs together to a 1ohm load. There are impedance wiring diagrams here if you need a visual:

Subwoofer Wiring Diagrams


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

So just to make sure, I specifically want 4 dual 2 ohm subs? Before I thought you said I wanted dual 4ohms so just making sure before i purchase thanks.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> So just to make sure, I specifically want 4 dual 2 ohm subs? Before I thought you said I wanted dual 4ohms so just making sure before i purchase thanks.


For the IDMax subs, yes, Dual 4 ohm, because then you'd wire each to 2 ohms, and then wire those to 1 ohm. Since you're now running 4 instead of 2, you'll need a different wiring setup. 

If you're running 4 IDQ12 drivers, you'll need to buy Dual 2ohm subs. These:
Image Dynamics IDQ12 V.3 D2 (IDQ12-V3D2) 12" Dual 2 ohm IDQ V.3 Sub

Here's how you'd wire them up:


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok thanks just making sure. I owe you big for this thread lol, I hope this thread can help out others too.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok thanks just making sure. I owe you big for this thread lol, I hope this thread can help out others too.


Glad I've been able to help, but it's not over till we get a video from you of those subs bumping in your trunk!

I have to admit I'm quite jealous. That's some serious SQ at some serious volumes you'll have there.

Your trunk will probably vibrate like crazy, so you'll want to consider some deadening at some point both for the trunk and trunklid. Depending on how bad the doors are, you may need to deaden them too. 

You'll need to do this for sure when you install new front speakers, but for now, the trunk will do. Fortunately, I know a guy who knows his deadening as well as if not better than I know my car audio. Contact Don over at SDS and tell him Andrei sent you. His email address is [email protected]. Tell him what you've got planned and he'll tell you what materials you'll need to keep your rear deck, trunk, and trunklid from buzzing and soundling like crap as well as get you a quote. 

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Power wires. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 20 feet to be safe:
> Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 1/0 RED POWER /GROUND WIRE
> 
> Ground wire. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 4 feet to be safe:
> ...


Now everything is out of stock lol


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Call them up and ask when it will be back in stock. KNU gear is some of the best stuff out there.

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## Gdubs (Apr 23, 2011)

xtreme! help me next me next!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Gdubs said:


> xtreme! help me next me next!


Already responded to your PM.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Gdubs said:


> xtreme! help me next me next!


No he's off limits till my install is complete lol


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> No he's off limits till my install is complete lol


LOL. I think I can take my leave till you at least have all the parts in. Don't forget the sound deadening! With this much power, you'll just be rolling around town with a trunk vibrating and it will look pretty ghetto. Shoot Don an email and have him get you a quote for some CLD tiles.


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## Gdubs (Apr 23, 2011)

HA! hes mine!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Gdubs said:


> HA! hes mine!


Sent you another PM. This new sub I sent you will probably be the one you end up getting. The amp is a perfect fit for it.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

So I just scored 2 used idq12'sv3 d2 for $370 shipped off DIY. Was going to pick up an authorized refurbed SAZ1500DV2 FOR $380 shipped but their stock sold out, will have to wait and keep checking. Next will be getting the wires and checking on that enclosure shop.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> So I just scored 2 used idq12'sv3 d2 for $370 shipped off DIY. Was going to pick up an authorized refurbed SAZ1500DV2 FOR $380 shipped but their stock sold out, will have to wait and keep checking. Next will be getting the wires and checking on that enclosure shop.


No sound deadening? Personally, I don't like driving around and having my trunk rattle every time the bass hits, lol. 

Where did you say you got them? If you went to DIYMA, I don't go there anymore, nor do I recommend that anyone else. My IP is banned there. I had over 3,000 posts on that site before I got banned. I had a ~35 page thread where I designed over 300 sub boxes for free for over 150 people and left all of the specs there for people to keep, but a deal I made with the site owner fell flat on the site's part; basically he didn't keep up his end of the deal after making a promise so I left. If you go back and find my username, you may find some of the posts I've made, but they deleted every thread I've ever created. All in the name of providing good information to the community, right? A couple of their admins even followed me over to techtalk.parts-express.com to give me **** there as well. If you deal with anyone there, make sure you pay via paypal, and don't pay as a paypal gift even if they ask you to. 

Refurbs are only available for limited amounts of time. I'd say if you wanted one, you'd have to just buy it new.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Screw ring terminals (one for battery and one for ground)
> Knukonceptz product detail for SET SCREW RING TERMINALS - 1/0 GAUGE PAIR *Do I need one set or two sets of these?
> 
> *RCA Wires: you'll need one set for subs and one set for front speaker amp. Might as well get two:
> Knukonceptz product detail for KLARITY RCA CABLE 2 CHANNEL RCA KABLE 5 METER *Do I need 2 of these for just the amp and sub amp install?*


Thanks


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

You need only one pair of terminals, and only one RCA cable if all you're doing is installing the sub and sub amp.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You need only one pair of terminals, and only one RCA cable if all you're doing is installing the sub and sub amp.


Thanks so heres my plan

Install amp and 2 subs
Install better car speakers
Install deadening
Install last 2 subs

Will be a long term goal haha


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Thanks so heres my plan
> 
> Install amp and 2 subs
> Install better car speakers
> ...


If you want to do it right, you'll want to install deadening in the doors at the same time as you install better car speakers.

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok, so just so I can have an idea, what type of speakers would you suggest I install in the inside of my car? What wires are needed? and what amp for them? Thanks. I think basically every penny I make that doesnt go towards bills is going into this project until its complete.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok, so just so I can have an idea, what type of speakers would you suggest I install in the inside of my car? What wires are needed? and what amp for them? Thanks. I think basically every penny I make that doesnt go towards bills is going into this project until its complete.


What type of speakers will depend on how you want to approach this. I spent under $250 for my speakers including the MiniDSP and I absolutely guarantee that you cannot beat the performance of that combination for even 2x that price. If you want to do it right, minidsp is the way to go with a 4 channel amp. We can work on finding speakers that meet your needs if you're up for running a minidsp. Otherwise, you'd be looking at a passive crossover. If using a minidsp, a 4 channel amp or two 2 channel amps. If using a component set with a passive crossover, a single 2 channel amp.

Wiring? 18 gauge oxygen free copper. Parts express sells a 100 foot roll for fairly cheap (like $9). I usually throw one in my cart when I place an order. There is absolutely no need to go any bigger with car speakers. Subs are a different story.

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Basically I'm just gonna let you choose what would work best with 4 idq12s lol. This is basically a monster you created, Im just paying for it and reaping the rewards haha.


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## josheco12 (Feb 5, 2012)

I see you talk about sound deadening so the trunk doesn't rattle, buy where did you place it x?my 2-10 Orion's with Kenwood 1200w amp rattles the truck and the weather strip in-between the truncheon and back window pretty bad, if you stick your fingers on the seal it feels like it's going to bight your fingertips off.Also the rear deck cover/carpet rattles like a bitch.Any tips are appreciated.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Basically I'm just gonna let you choose what would work best with 4 idq12s lol. This is basically a monster you created, Im just paying for it and reaping the rewards haha.


What's your budget on the front speakers, including the amp and etc.?

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

josheco12 said:


> I see you talk about sound deadening so the trunk doesn't rattle, buy where did you place it x?my 2-10 Orion's with Kenwood 1200w amp rattles the truck and the weather strip in-between the truncheon and back window pretty bad, if you stick your fingers on the seal it feels like it's going to bight your fingertips off.Also the rear deck cover/carpet rattles like a bitch.Any tips are appreciated.


The SDS CLD tiles need to cover about 25% of the surface area to be effective, but you may need more. You apply it on the underside of the trunklid. With that amount of power, there's only so much you can do, but I'd start with the CLD tiles. 

For the rear deck, you'll need some mass loading. I'm not sure how you can accomplish that, but you need to find a way to secure it better. I'm sure I'll run into this issue when I put my 15" sub back there so keep an eye on my thread (see first link in my signature) and I'll post how I went about fixing it.

Send Don an email at [email protected] for a quote on the the cld tiles, and ask him what he recommends regarding the weather strip and rear deck cover. He's more of an expert on sound deadening than I am. Oh, and tell him Andrei sent you.

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> What's your budget on the front speakers, including the amp and etc.?
> 
> Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


What setup were you referring to as being better than something 2x its price?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> What setup were you referring to as being better than something 2x its price?


The one I'm installing in my car using the minidsp. Just about anything you use with a minidsp will sound seriously awesome.

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

What would compliment my 4 12s? I dont like to put a price on things because id rather pay what i have to in order to get what i need rather than


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> What would compliment my 4 12s? I dont like to put a price on things because id rather pay what i have to in order to get what i need rather than


If you want excellent sound quality, MiniDSP is the way to go. You'll need a good 4-channel amp. The MinDSP is $150 shipped which includes the the car audio switch you'll need and a potentiometer (pot) to adjust gain. I can recommend you a good pair of tweeters and midwoofers for about $100-$120. After this, you'll need to watch my SQ thread like a hawk and ask all of the questions you possibly have in order to set it all up. Might have to call me so I can explain things directly, but we can definitely get you set up.

Let me know when you're ready to order the next set of components and we'll go from there.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Since the wires I need for the amp are on backorder until the end of the month, I think I might upgrade the tweeters and midwoofers and sound deaden the car before I even get the amp and subs installed. So which tweets/mids/4-channel amp should I look into. Thanks!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Here's are some components I think would work well. Either of these will work; you can mix and match. It all depends on the price point. 

Tweeters ($35 EA):
Morel MDT 12 1-1/8" Neodymium Tweeter 277-060

Woofers ($29 EA):
Dayton Audio DA175-8 7" Aluminum Cone Woofer 295-335

I already have the Dayton DA-175, which is what I'll be installing in my car with my MiniDSP. You'll probably be able to run the same crossover points as I will be running, but you may need to increase the gain on the tweeters. 

This will run you $130 for speakers, $150 for the MiniDSP, and however much a good set of RCA cables are over on KNU. You'll need one ~3 foot and two ~17 foot cables. The tweeter will obviously need to be a custom install as it won't be made specifically to mount to where the original tweeter is in the pillars, but it can be done and the very low mounting depth on this one should make it easy. You're looking at $280 for the front sound stage, and I guarantee that these components will blow away anything you can find in the ~$500 range while being able to keep up with your subs in volume.

For that set up, I'd run one of these two amps. Both are great amps. The NX4 is much smaller though and may be easier to mount. 
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27474_MB-Quart-ONX4.125.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27732_Massive-Audio-NX4.html

I would personally run the NX4 due to the smaller size and higher signal to noise ratio.

Edit: let me know before you order the tweeters so I can make 100% sure that they'll fit in the pillars. I'm fairly certain they will, but I want to measure the width of that opening to be certain.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Power wires. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 20 feet to be safe:
> Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 1/0 RED POWER /GROUND WIRE
> 
> Ground wire. 0/1 gauge copper, I'd get 4 feet to be safe:
> ...


Do I need the speaker wire to install the amp and subs? Trying to get these costs calculated to a T because Im bored and impatient lol... Is the speaker wire the remote wire? Slowly learning haha


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Do I need the speaker wire to install the amp and subs? Trying to get these costs calculated to a T because Im bored and impatient lol... Is the speaker wire the remote wire? Slowly learning haha


You'll need extra speaker wire to install the amp. I set you up with 0/1 gauge wire. Here's how it would work, with regard to the order it would run. 

Start at the battery. You have the screw ring terminal, connected to the 0/1 gauge wire, you run the wire into the trunk, which then plus directly into the distribution block input side. You install the fuses in the distribution block, and you then have three outputs on the distribution block; one 0/1 gauge and two 4/8 gauge. The idea here is that the distribution block then serves as your fuse (which is extremely important). From the distribution block outputs, you run another section of 0/1 gauge wire to the Sundown sub amp. You then run one section of 4 gauge wire to the stereo amp. You have yet to buy this wire.

The remote wire is simply a wire that gets hooked up to the PAC harness that tells the amplifiers when to turn on. You can use even a 20 gauge wire for that; it really doesn't take a whole lot, but you need about 20 feet of it to be safe. I usually just split a 20ft length of speaker wire for that purpose. You can daisy-chain connect that wire from one amp to another. 

To wire up the stereo amp, you'll need about 6 feet of this (to be safe)
Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 4 GAUGE RED POWER/GROUND WIRE

And 6 feet of this:
Knukonceptz product detail for KOLOSSUS FLEKS KABLE 4 GAUGE BLACK POWER/GROUND WIRE

You'll also need these. You'll only use one, which will be used for the ground connection, but you'll need it nonetheless. 
Knukonceptz product detail for SET SCREW RING TERMINALS - 4 GAUGE PAIR


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

If you run 0/1 ga wire to your sub amp from the battery, make sure you run 0/1 ga wire from your sub amp to ground. A cheap place to buy 0/1 ga wire is your local welding supply house. You don't have to pay shipping, you don't have to wait for your wire and it's cheaper that on-line sources. It's very flexible too. Most stock red and black jacketed wire. They also carry terminal ends. In addition, if you've got an amp large enough to require 0/1 ga wire, you'll need to beef up your alternator supply wire to the battery and your grounds. A high output alternator helps if your going to be listening real loud for real long.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

cecaa850 said:


> If you run 0/1 ga wire to your sub amp from the battery, make sure you run 0/1 ga wire from your sub amp to ground. A cheap place to buy 0/1 ga wire is your local welding supply house. You don't have to pay shipping, you don't have to wait for your wire and it's cheaper that on-line sources. It's very flexible too. Most stock red and black jacketed wire. They also carry terminal ends. In addition, if you've got an amp large enough to require 0/1 ga wire, you'll need to beef up your alternator supply wire to the battery and your grounds. A high output alternator helps if your going to be listening real loud for real long.


I already specified him some 0/1 gauge wire for the ground section as well in post 35, over on page 4. 

Welding wire works well but isn't anywhere near as flexible as the KNU wire. In car audio, flexibility is pretty important. I've used welding wire before and it's not too bad though. If he can find some locally, it might be a good alternative. 

For terminal ends, I always run closed ended screw type terminals like the ones I recommended him in order to give me the flexibility to disconnect the terminals at any time and in order to seal the wire from corrosion. 

I spec'd 0/1 gauge to prevent any voltage drop. Otherwise, the subs he's running are extremely efficient and won't need all of the power his amp can provide to run them to insane volumes. I prefer to over-build than to under-build.


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I already specified him some 0/1 gauge wire for the ground section as well in post 35, over on page 4.


My bad, I didn't read the whole thread, sorry for being redundant. For some reason, the pages on this site load slowly for me and I'll skip a page from time to time.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

cecaa850 said:


> My bad, I didn't read the whole thread, sorry for being redundant. For some reason, the pages on this site load slowly for me and I'll skip a page from time to time.


They do indeed load slowly. It's all the ads that cause the pages to bog down. You posted good advice though.


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok so why do I need the 3 fuse distribution block instead of a different one? What benefits does it have over the others that are in stock? Thanks.


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You'll need extra speaker wire to install the amp. I set you up with 0/1 gauge wire. Here's how it would work, with regard to the order it would run.
> 
> Start at the battery. You have the screw ring terminal, connected to the 0/1 gauge wire, you run the wire into the trunk, which then plus directly into the distribution block input side. You install the fuses in the distribution block, and you then have three outputs on the distribution block; one 0/1 gauge and two 4/8 gauge. The idea here is that the distribution block then serves as your fuse (which is extremely important). From the distribution block outputs, you run another section of 0/1 gauge wire to the Sundown sub amp. You then run one section of 4 gauge wire to the stereo amp. You have yet to buy this wire.


I'd do this a little differently. I've always read that you need to have the power wire fused within 12 to 18 inches of the battery. The reason being that you want to protect the long run of wire from your battery to the trunk. If you run a screw through the supply wire or god forbid you get in a wreck, the power wire could short to ground with no fuse for protection. You can then fuse your individual components at the distribution block.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok so why do I need the 3 fuse distribution block instead of a different one? What benefits does it have over the others that are in stock? Thanks.


Well, a two fuse distribution block would work fine, if you can find one with one 0/1 gauge input, one 0/1 gauge output, and one 4 gauge output, but I didn't really find any. This was the only one that seemed to do what we wanted it to. To recap, you need one 0/1 gauge input, and one 0/1 gauge output, and one 4 gauge output to get this done. If you can find another distribution block that has those connections, you're free to buy that one instead. 



cecaa850 said:


> I'd do this a little differently. I've always read that you need to have the power wire fused within 12 to 18 inches of the battery. The reason being that you want to protect the long run of wire from your battery to the trunk. If you run a screw through the supply wire or god forbid you get in a wreck, the power wire could short to ground with no fuse for protection. You can then fuse your individual components at the distribution block.


The kind of wreck required to short out your power wire would have your car go to the scrapper anyway. I like to keep as few connections in the engine bay as possible to reduce the chances of corrosion. I suppose if he was concerned about it, an additional fuse can be added in the engine bay, but I'll leave it to him to make that decision.


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

HERE is a link that may help the OP.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Update:

Have ordered:
Power wire
Ground wire
Speaker wire
Rca Cables
Konfused distribution block 3 way
3 IDQ12V3D2

NEEDED:
0 gauge ring terminals, can you suggest a pair off of sonicelectronix

Sub enclosure. Leaning towards prefab its the only way. Had this product in mind x 2 Absolute MDHF12 Dual 12" Sealed MDF Enclosure - Sonic Electronix (would go over and reseal everything to be safe) closest cubic ft available for my needs* 1.15*. (*will 2 of these enclosures fit in my 2012 cruze ls?*) (*Would it be best to have 2 subs facing 2 subs or have 4 subs facing upward?*)

Trunk deadening (for now) leaning towards NVX SDTK20 Trunk Kit, 20 Sq Ft of Sound Dampening (5 18"x32" Pieces) (25% off coupon makes it $60 shipped for 20sq ft)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Update:
> 
> Have ordered:
> Power wire
> ...


You came into this thread telling everyone you're a complete noob (see title), and now you've gone off and ignored some of the most important advice I've given. You start off with a massive budget and then start cheaping out on the important bits. I get that you're trying to save money, but you're cutting corners in all the wrong places. If you wanted to save money, you would have stuck with two IDQ drivers (which would still be very loud) and gone with a Hifonics amp and been able to do the rest the right way. Now, you're doing it all wrong. 

To start, you know what I think about those prefabbed boxes. They're junk, and I've made that pretty clear. $75 shipped? I'm not even sure if I could *ship *a well built 12" box for $75 to some places in the US. My own materials cost for a dual 12" box are over $60. You get what you pay for. You can't exactly just go over and re-seal everything; it's just going to come apart again. We're talking some constant changes in pressure and temperature inside that box. If it's not actually built well, it will leak again, if not just completely fall apart. If you think I'm exaggerating, I'm not. I'm saying this all from experience. Pay someone to build you a box, or do it yourself, but don't buy a $75 shipped prefabbed box for your ultimate SQ "last subs I'll ever need" $1500 build. It makes absolutely no sense. That's like putting the Cruze Eco's wheels on a Corvette ZR1. The sub box will make or break how your subs will sound. If you had bought some cheap Sony Xplod subs, I wouldn't say anything, but you're buying some of the best SQ subs on the market and mounting them to a prefabbed box.

That sound deadening is garbage. It's seriously just flashing tape and sold at a markup at that. I can tell you just by looking at it that it's definitely not the thickness they claim it is. Again, you set out to build a high end system, and then decided to start cutting corners everywhere. I recommended SDS CLD tiles for a reason; they are superior to anything else I've ever used. Not only that, but even at a comparison of $60, they are cheaper because it takes less material to get the job done. I can guarantee you that you could deaden your entire trunk for less than that with SDS CLD tiles and they would be more effective. I know this because I spent a total of $58.8 for enough CLD tiles to cover my trunk _and _both front doors. 

Every bit of advice I've given you has a reason. There's a story behind it, a long list of experiences, some learned the hard way. There was me not too long ago arguing with Don about sound deadening, saying that the flashing tape (eDead 40) I was using could be just doubled up or put on in multiple layers. Then he sent me a few samples free of charge. I ended up agreeing to take my own measurements with my RTA rig and boy did I prove myself wrong. One CLD tile is 3x as effective as 4 layers of eDead, and the stuff you posted isn't much different. I feel like I've been wasting my time here.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

I just want to get this installed lol. The guys near my house I mentioned said they could do a dual enclosure sealed at 1 cubic feet per sub with 3/4"mdf for around $120. I just feel like its going to be the exact quality as the prefab except they are gonna be gluing it together instead of said prefab worker.

What should I do for an enclosure? I can't drive to your house because its way too far unfortunately.

As for the deadening I emailed your buddy a few days ago and havent gotten a response..
Can you recommend exactly what i will need to deaden just the trunk?

Just wanted to add this video i just watched *DANG* theres barely any coverage in his trunk and it sounds SOLID!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxdGmtBxvpo


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> I just want to get this installed lol. The guys near my house I mentioned said they could do a dual enclosure sealed at 1 cubic feet per sub with 3/4"mdf for around $120. I just feel like its going to be the exact quality as the prefab except they are gonna be gluing it together instead of said prefab worker.
> 
> What should I do for an enclosure? I can't drive to your house because its way too far unfortunately.
> 
> ...


I can build the box for you for $300 plus shipping, which would fit all 4 of the subs. Let me know if you're interested. I can call around to get a shipping quote.

PM me your email address and I'll forward it to Don. I just got an email from him today...

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Just wanted to add this video i just watched *DANG* theres barely any coverage in his trunk and it sounds SOLID!
> Sound Deadener Showdown-CLD Tiles - YouTube


Like I said, you use the right tool for the job. The CLD tiles don't need 100% coverage. In fact, Don recommends 25% coverage, which like I said before, will end up being cheaper than if you went with that crap you posted earlier. It would be cheaper even if you went with 50% coverage. When I told you Don knows what he's doing with sound deadening, I meant it. I sent him your email address, so you should be hearing from him soon.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ordered Update:

All knukonceptz accessories ordered
20 of dons CLD tiles ordered (just to start)
3 IDQ's (would it be possible to run 3 idqd2v3's with 1 idqd2*v2*? or would all v3's be optimal?)
Saz1500dv2
AA-GM44

Installing the AA is gonna be a pain lol

Do I need a capacitor or a Battery dedicated to the amp?

What would be optimal sub placement for SQ? 2 facing cabin and 2 facing away? I was thinking about having my back seats pulled down if I went this route.

Will be checking the sub enclosure store out tomorrow, basically going to ask if they can do what I need and why their boxes are better than prefab i.e "you guys dont just buy cheap kits off ebay and assemble them correct?" Because I get the vibe they might haha


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ordered Update:
> 
> All knukonceptz accessories ordered
> 20 of dons CLD tiles ordered (just to start)
> ...


Now we're talking!

You can't run a V2 sub. Entirely different subwoofer. Different impedanced, different box requirements, different sensitivity. I'll run the numbers when I get home to see if you can wire up those 3 subs together and just skip the 4th entirely.

Caps are useless. Trust me, they are a waste of money. Try this system out and see if you get voltage drops okn hard bass beats and we can go from there. Given how high of a sensitivity these subs have, I doubt you'll have any issues.

Face all the subs toward the rear of the trunk.

Do you have the space to build the box? If so, I can teach you how to do it. You can buy all the tools you need for about what it would cost me to ship a box to you. You can have home depot make all of the cuts for you, leaving you needing only to glue the boards, carpet, and cut the mounting holes. I'd much rather take the time to teach you than have you buy a prefab box. 

Chances are, they wouldn't tell you even if they did sell prefabbed boxes.

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Update 4th sub purchased!!!! :th_coolio:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Update 4th sub purchased!!!! :th_coolio:


Haha, wow. You'll be making some serious noise in no time!


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

So would it be best to have 2 subs facing the back of 2 subs facing the trunk? like this 2> facing 2>
or would it be best to have 2 subs facing the sky and 2 subs facing the trunk?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Now we're talking!
> 
> You can't run a V2 sub. Entirely different subwoofer. Different impedanced, different box requirements, different sensitivity. I'll run the numbers when I get home to see if you can wire up those 3 subs together and just skip the 4th entirely.
> 
> ...


So what tools will i need and how many sheets of 2ftx4ft 3/4" mdf? Thanks


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Image Dynamics XS-65 (XS 65) 6.5" 2-Way Component Speaker System

What do you think about that? I dont understand the crossover/minidsp difference lol. Would your setup out perform that IDQ setup?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Image Dynamics XS-65 (XS 65) 6.5" 2-Way Component Speaker System
> 
> What do you think about that? I dont understand the crossover/minidsp difference lol. Would your setup out perform that IDQ setup?


I'd have to spend another page or two explaining crossover design concepts. Long story short, my setup will outperform that IDQ setup, hands down. There is no competition there. The ID setup will be easier to install, but it won't sound as good. The benefit to the MiniDSP setup is that I can choose my own crossover points so I can choose my own speaker drivers as well. Not only that, but I have a 31-band equalizer so I can tune the system to my specific car. With a passive setup such as that one you posted, you don't have that ability. You basically have no customization controls. There's are a lot of things you can do with a MiniDSP that you can't do without it. The most amazing bit of all this is that it will sound better with the MiniDSP for $280 total than it will with the system you posted for over $400.

If you want the easy way out, buy the ID setup. If you want the best sound possible, buy the MiniDSP. The MiniDSP will take a bit of trial and error and practice before you get it right, and it will be a bit more complicated and require you to run a bit of additional wiring, but I think it's worth it. It's up to you to determine if you want to do the work. 

As for the sub question, is there any way you can have all 4 of them firing toward the back of the car in the same direction, or would they not fit?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok as for the 7" subs and the tweeters you originally posted, is there something out there thats better for a little bit more money? I'm the type who sees $28 dollar speakers and thinks a $30 speaker must out perform it.. Such as the morel mdt12's would the mdt22's be better for $8 more?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok as for the 7" subs and the tweeters you originally posted, is there something out there thats better for a little bit more money? I'm the type who sees $28 dollar speakers and thinks a $30 speaker must out perform it.. Such as the morel mdt12's would the mdt22's be better for $8 more?


Let me put it this way. There is always something better. The question is whether or not you want to spend the money, or whether or not you have it. The MDT22s will not fit back there. I have ones that are very similar to those and I'm going to have to cut up the rear chamber and re-seal it in order for them to fit. If I was ordering the parts now, I would have bought the same parts that I recommended to you because those tweeters will actually fit without much modification. 

If you wanted to spend more money on the woofers, you'd go with something like this:

Dayton Audio RS180-4 7" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm 295-374

However, that would add another $40 to the cost of your system.

I do want to make you understand one very important thing here. These drivers I'm recommending to you aren't cheap or low quality. I build home theater speakers as a side job and a hobby and I have seen the exact same drivers I'm using in $5000 retail speakers. I spent $600 on only my front two home theater speakers, and they outperform anything I've ever heard for under $3000 retail. When you buy a component set, you pay for the fact that someone put that kit together. When you buy parts from parts-express.com, you buy them at the lowest price possible without some "design markup" like you would in a component set. In the end, you get a vastly superior system.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

ok so Ill be picking those up Dayton Audio RS180-4 7" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm 295-374, should I stick with the morels mdt12s?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> ok so Ill be picking those up Dayton Audio RS180-4 7" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm 295-374, should I stick with the morels mdt12s?


I would personally advise that you make sure you can get a good box built for you first before you start tacking on expenses to this project, but it's your money in the end. 

If you decide to go this route, yes, stick with the MDT-12s. They will be the easiest to make fit in our pillars. The only tweeter that will be easier to install is this Vifa tweeter:
Vifa BC25SC06-04 1" Textile Dome Tweeter 264-1028

I have personally used it on two home theater speaker designs and it is a VERY nice sounding tweeter that sounds much more expensive than it really is. It would be much, much easier to install it in those pillars than anything else in that performance category. Depending on how much work it requires me to install the Morels in my pillars, I may end up just running those Vifas. I have about 8 of them in my parts bin.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok so I called the sub enclosure shop, the guy sounded like a drunk with some woodworking skills and free time haha. Said it would cost around $160 for a sealed enclosure at 1 cubic ft per sub. That would be for 1 enclosure holding 4 subs facing the sky or 2 enclosures each holding 2 subs... In my initial email and at first over the phone he thought id want the subs to be ported... Im guessing he gets a lot of hoodrats with kickers needing an enclosure to help them fart out of...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Well, go for it. I hope you get a good box, and I'm being sincere. I would ask him if that includes bracing though. I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to build you a box for that price. That's an entire 4x8 sheet of MDF for $32 not including the cost and time of getting it transported to your shop, 2 yards of carpeting for $13, a good terminal cup for $6, a can of 3M adhesive spray for $9, and that brings you up to $60 in materials. I use carbide saw blades which are $50 apiece, carbide router bits for $40-$50 apiece, I spent over $1000 in tools just last year alone, and then there's the cost of electricity to run all of those tools and the time to build the box. If you're adding bracing, you'll easily need another sheet of MDF. All in all, to do it right with a double thick baffle and adequate bracing, you're looking at a 5+ hour job, over $100 in materials, and that's if you're good at it and know what you're doing, lol.

Make sure those are separate chambers, and if they're not, make sure there's adequate bracing between each sub. 

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Well, go for it. I hope you get a good box, and I'm being sincere. I would ask him if that includes bracing though. I know for a fact I wouldn't be able to build you a box for that price. That's an entire 4x8 sheet of MDF for $32 not including the cost and time of getting it transported to your shop, 2 yards of carpeting for $13, a good terminal cup for $6, a can of 3M adhesive spray for $9, and that brings you up to $60 in materials. I use carbide saw blades which are $50 apiece, carbide router bits for $40-$50 apiece, I spent over $1000 in tools just last year alone, and then there's the cost of electricity to run all of those tools and the time to build the box. If you're adding bracing, you'll easily need another sheet of MDF. All in all, to do it right with a double thick baffle and adequate bracing, you're looking at a 5+ hour job, over $100 in materials, and that's if you're good at it and know what you're doing, lol.
> 
> Make sure those are separate chambers, and if they're not, make sure there's adequate bracing between each sub.
> 
> Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


This box thing is gonna piss me off lol, its the only thing holding me back right now. The biggest problem being I wouldnt know if the guy made the box right or not even if he was charging $300. I'd basically have to take his word for it. I need a solution before Wednesday when my SAZ gets here haha.

Ok so sorry if this is a dumb questions but what are 6x9s? So the tweeters are the two speakers in the very front of the car up by the windshield? Then the Dayton 7" are what would be going in the doors down by your feet? and then in the back of the car there are 6x9s? Sorry if im completely wrong lol, would there be any reason to upgrade the 6x9s?


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## sajayra (Apr 15, 2012)

If your installing your amp yourself this video will help. 2012 chevy cruze amp install with stock radio - YouTube


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> This box thing is gonna piss me off lol, its the only thing holding me back right now. The biggest problem being I wouldnt know if the guy made the box right or not even if he was charging $300. I'd basically have to take his word for it. I need a solution before Wednesday when my SAZ gets here haha.
> 
> Ok so sorry if this is a dumb questions but what are 6x9s? So the tweeters are the two speakers in the very front of the car up by the windshield? Then the Dayton 7" are what would be going in the doors down by your feet? and then in the back of the car there are 6x9s? Sorry if im completely wrong lol, would there be any reason to upgrade the 6x9s?


The 6x9s are named such because that's their dimension. These would indeed go in the rear deck. However, they are typically used for bass because the window reflection makes them terrible for any other kind of listening. I wouldn't put any in your car. Just leave those holes empty for more bass to get through. 

Getting a good box built isn't easy, I know it, lol. To have a shop actually BUILD you a good box is not cheap. I know that for a fact because I know how long it takes to build one and most shops charge double what I do. 

In any case, I'm currently in the process of building my box and I'm taking lots of pictures along the way. If you think you can handle a few clamps, some glue, and a dremel, I'd encourage you to consider building it yourself. 

"Patience, young grasshopper."


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Is this the design the guy would have to use? QBASS124T Quad 12" Enclosure : 4 Sealed Chambers, Fits 4 12" Subwoofers

I dont think its possible to build an enclosure that could fit 4 12's all facing the rear for the Cruze as all the prefabbed ones (used only for an ideal of width) are around 50" wide :uhh:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Is this the design the guy would have to use? QBASS124T Quad 12" Enclosure : 4 Sealed Chambers, Fits 4 12" Subwoofers
> 
> I dont think its possible to build an enclosure that could fit 4 12's all facing the rear for the Cruze as all the prefabbed ones (used only for an ideal of width) are around 50" wide :uhh:


Yeah, sounds like that's what you'll have to do. Two facing up, to facing the rear. 

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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

I've been thinking about a box design and was wondering if it were capable. My trunk is approximately 30"lX40"wX20"H but I basically wanted 3 subs firing at the trunk like a normal 3 enclosure design then 1 sub firing to the sky in the middle of the 3 subs but on top. So like that picture above^ but with 3 subs facing the trunk and just one port in the middle on top. Sound possible? Thanks.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> I've been thinking about a box design and was wondering if it were capable. My trunk is approximately 30"lX40"wX20"H but I basically wanted 3 subs firing at the trunk like a normal 3 enclosure design then 1 sub firing to the sky in the middle of the 3 subs but on top. So like that picture above^ but with 3 subs facing the trunk and just one port in the middle on top. Sound possible? Thanks.


Anything is possible. You could certainly do what you're talking about, and just close off a 1 cubic foot chamber for the sub firing up, while having the remaining 3 share a 3 cubic foot chamber. It can be done, although it's a bit more complicated and I'm not entirely sure if someone will be able to build it for you. I'd just stick to two firing up and two firing toward the rear.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok so not sure how far off base this suggestion is haha, Could you make that enclosure the 3 facing rear with one facing the sky or do you think I'd get better SQ with 2 back 2 up? For $250 and a case of your choice, I'll drive down with all of my subs, wires, and my SAZ and we can hook this thing up together maybe? You could build the enclosure whenever you had time or after I got there if you'd prefer that. Then we can get some images of your work up on here too.

I just dont want any silence of the lambs stuff going on "it puts the lotion on the skin", you know lmao.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok so not sure how far off base this suggestion is haha, Could you make that enclosure the 3 facing rear with one facing the sky or do you think I'd get better SQ with 2 back 2 up? For $250 and a case of your choice, I'll drive down with all of my subs, wires, and my SAZ and we can hook this thing up together maybe? You could build the enclosure whenever you had time or after I got there if you'd prefer that. Then we can get some images of your work up on here too.
> 
> I just dont want any silence of the lambs stuff going on "it puts the lotion on the skin", you know lmao.


The 1-up, 3-rear idea makes the whole thing a bit more complicated because I always like to have at least a 1.25" thick baffle and this would screw up that idea a bit. I'll take some measurements of my trunk to see what other options we might have. 

I don't think we'd be able to hook it all up in one day. I might be able to get the box done in two days, but certainly won't be able to install the amp and wiring. I'd say if you wanted to come down here, I'd have to get the box started a week before and finish it up the day you get here. You can't really do it in one sitting because you have to let the glue dry for at least half an hour before you remove the clamps and move onto the next part. 

The reason why I quoted you $300 for this box earlier is because it's a lot of work. For the IDQs, that includes the mineral wool that I'd be installing as well. Every time you add a sub, I have to take measurements, cut, and route two more cuts of wood for the bracing. I don't see myself being able to finish a box like the one you want in under 6 hours including clean-up time, and it's definitely going to take me two sheets of MDF to build it. That's ~$100 in materials costs, and $200 to cover my shop costs, electricity, and time.

Give me till the end of today to post the in-progress pictures of the box I'm building for myself and you'll see what I'm talking about.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok thanks, another question. Instead of using the dayton 7" would it be possible to use ID8's?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok thanks, another question. Instead of using the dayton 7" would it be possible to use ID8's?


Nope. The grill in the car isn't big enough to fit anything larger than a 6.5" driver. The Dayton 7" is really only a 6.5" with a large frame. I had looked at this myself as I would have gone with the Aura NS8 driver, but after measuring the diameter of the grill, I decided it wouldn't work.

By the way, pictures are posted here:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/36-electronics/6206-xtremerevolutions-subwoofer-boxes-4.html


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Nice pictures, I want you to build my enclosure haha. Would it be possible to put like fabric on the box instead of carpet? Something like this Captain America The Avengers Comic Pack by Springs Creative bty | eBay

How much would the 2 up 2 firing towards the trunk cost to ship to 48180?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Nice pictures, I want you to build my enclosure haha. Would it be possible to put like fabric on the box instead of carpet? Something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I told you it's a bit of work. When I heard you telling me someone would do it for $120, I was like, how? On what planet? Tools aren't cheap, electricity isn't free, and materials for a box like that are easily over $100. 

Thin fabric is a bit more difficult to work with, but it can be done. You'd have to supply me the fabric. You're looking at a 30 inch wide by 30 inch deep box, 14-16" tall, which means you need at least 36 inches in width and 100 inches in length just to wrap it around, not including the sides. If you wanted that fabric, you'd need to order 4 yards of it. 

How much to ship? Both FedEx and UPS quoted me ~$75 with insurance and it would get there in 1-2 days.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok so how fast could you get it to me haha without carpeting just blank?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok so how fast could you get it to me haha without carpeting just blank?


Didn't even think of that. You're more than capable of carpeting it yourself. All you need is cissors, a utility knife, and 3M adhesive spray. 

If I start today, I can have it out to you hopefully by the end of next weekend. I still work a 40 hour job, so I only have so much time to work on it after work and on weekends, and this is a rather large box. 

I'll cut $40 off that price since I don't have to carpet it, which brings you down to $260. 

If you want me to start it, I'll need a deposit of $100 via paypal to get started since I need to go pick up a couple of sheets of MDF for it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

One more thing I forgot to add. I can put in some mineral wool for $20 like I did on my box. I forgot to mention this earlier. Not all boxes need it, but it's recommended for SQ boxes. I charge extra for it because it's an extra material I have to buy (both the mineral wool and the spray adhesive), and extra time to install it. Let me know if you want it.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Would there be a price to get this shipped sometime thursday lol just for laughs..


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Would there be a price to get this shipped sometime thursday lol just for laughs..


Thursday of which week?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Thursday of which week?


lmfaoo.. This one, youre gonna make me sit here with all 4 subs, this saz and all the cables for a whole week :sad010:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> lmfaoo.. This one


No can do. I lead a Jr. high group in church tomorrow night after work, so there's no way in **** it could get out by Thursday. I need to let glue dry before I get everything done, and all I'd be able to do today is run to the store and get some MDF and make a few cuts. I need to drop by harbor freight to buy some bigger clamps because the ones I have won't be enough to clamp a box that big. 

At best, I could get it done by Saturday night if I put my own projects on hold and worked on this instead. I could drop it off on Sunday and it would probably get to you on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. Even so, that would be cutting it a bit close. Keep in mind, I'm spending at least 6 hours on the box building itself. This doesn't include my trip to the store to pick up the materials, or my trip to FedEx/UPS to drop off the box. It also doesn't include the fact that it can't all be done in one sitting because I need to let the glue dry between steps before I can move on to the next step. 

I'm sending you a PM with my paypal address.


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok so how fast could you get it to me haha without carpeting just blank?





jherman08 said:


> Would there be a price to get this shipped sometime thursday lol just for laughs..





jherman08 said:


> lmfaoo.. This one, youre gonna make me sit here with all 4 subs, this saz and all the cables for a whole week :sad010:


Please tell me you're not serious.... If you want a box fast, go buy one from Walmart. If you want a box that will sound good and last a good long while, pay extra and be patient.

Personally, I almost can't believe you're getting a custom designed box for what Xtreme is charging you. I would expect to pay that for a single sub box.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> Please tell me you're not serious.... If you want a box fast, go buy one from Walmart. If you want a box that will sound good and last a good long while, pay extra and be patient.
> 
> Personally, I almost can't believe you're getting a custom designed box for what Xtreme is charging you. I would expect to pay that for a single sub box.


+1

I'm still not sure why I'm giving him such a great deal, lol. I guess I wanted more people to be able to have a great sub box instead of having to pay $300-$500 to have one custom made at a shop. I'm hoping he'll refer people to get me more business. I've never really timed myself to see how long it takes me to build a box. Once his is done, I'll may adjust my pricing, but I still want to keep it affordable.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> Please tell me you're not serious.... If you want a box fast, go buy one from Walmart. If you want a box that will sound good and last a good long while, pay extra and be patient.
> 
> Personally, I almost can't believe you're getting a custom designed box for what Xtreme is charging you. I would expect to pay that for a single sub box.


I'm not trying to be rude at all and X understands that, this is just my first setup so having close to $2k in products retail just sitting in my room looking me in the eye each night is like an evil monkey in the closet haha. I appreciate all the info he has given me as I would probably have some prefilled sub enclosure with 2 square kickers in my trunk right now off the clearance rack at BestBuy and some POS $180 amp. I'm not begging him to do it or whining, just figured I'd ask.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> +1
> 
> I'm still not sure why I'm giving him such a great deal, lol.


God sent you :bowing:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> I'm not trying to be rude at all and X understands that, this is just my first setup so having close to $2k in products retail just sitting in my room looking me in the eye each night is like an evil monkey in the closet haha. I appreciate all the info he has given me as I would probably have some prefilled sub enclosure with 2 square kickers in my trunk right now off the clearance rack at BestBuy and some POS $180 amp. I'm not begging him to do it or whining, just figured I'd ask.


Don't worry about me, I know you weren't being rude. I know you're just anxious to get this stuff going, and who can blame you? I know exactly how excited you are, lol. His advise is good though, do remember that you'll get one **** of a box if I build it, and it will sound incredible. 

Even after all the parts are together, be patient. Don't work when you're tired as you are more likely to make mistakes, and take everything one step at a time. If you have doubts about anything, ask questions. Take your time, and your end result will be awesome. 

You've waited through 12 pages of posts so far, so don't screw something up badly when you get everything just because you're trying to rush. Let me give you an example. The subs will need to be mounted to the box. That requires drilling the holes and screwing in screws. Now, I've been in a hurry before when building a set of speakers for my father in law. I was finishing up the last speaker and screwing down the 4" midbass driver, and the screwdriver slipped and went straight into the cone and left a dent. Luckily, it didn't affect sound quality and he told me not to replace it and just leave it as it didn't actually puncture the cone. Other people I've talked to weren't so lucky. One guy drove his screwdriver through the surround on a 18" TC Sounds subwoofer because he was too excited to get it working. We're talking a brand new $925 subwoofer here with a hole in the surround. 

I can't stress this enough; once you start putting it together, take your time.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Should I throw up some video of my install? Taking the Factory radio out and plugging the PAC aa in? Putting the CLD tiles on?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Should I throw up some video of my install? Taking the Factory radio out and plugging the PAC aa in? Putting the CLD tiles on?


You can put the CLD tiles on at any time. It's up to you if you want to post some videos. I don't think anyone else around here would mind.

In other news, I came home with two 4x8 foot sheets of MDF...










...to be continued in my sub box thread.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok so I'm scared now haha, I want my subs to hit like this Late Nite Tip Excursion Test - YouTube (v2)

Not like this Image Dynamics IDQ12v.3d4 - YouTube (v3)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok so I'm scared now haha, I want my subs to hit like this Late Nite Tip Excursion Test - YouTube (v2)
> 
> Not like this Image Dynamics IDQ12v.3d4 - YouTube (v3)


The reason why those IDQ12 V3 subs don't actually look like they're hitting hard is because they're ported subs. Ported boxes are design to control subwoofer excursion around the tuning frequency, so the port creates most of the output. Just because you don't see the actual cones moving doesn't mean there isn't massive amounts of bass present. Here's a graph that demonstrates what I'm saying. I posted this in my sub box thread on page two. 

Here's the frequency response of a ported sub I designed:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/mbquartrwe204ventedtota.gif/









The red line is the output (SPL) created by the port. The blue line is the output created by the subwoofer itself. The black line is both of them combined, with cabin gain also combined. You'll notice that there's a general peak where the port is louder than the cone. The tip of that peak is the tuning frequency. 

Now, here's the excursion (sub moving in and out) graph of that same sub, measured in millimeters. 









At 50hz, we have about 8mm of excursion. At 33hz, we have ~3.5mm of excursion. So basically, the subwoofer's cone is moving less, but according to the black line on the frequency response chart, we're actually creating more bass. 

That's the explanation why the two IDQ12 V3s in a ported box are moving less than the two IDQ12 V2s in the sealed box. I can assure you that the IDQ12 V3s in that video are much louder than the IDQ12 V2s in the other video.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Sorry for the confusion not up on the lingo completely, when I said hit I meant those sounded like crap to me lol. I want them to sound like the v2's did.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Sorry for the confusion not up on the lingo completely, when I said hit I meant those sounded like crap to me lol. I want them to sound like the v2's did.


You seriously can't determine how a sub will sound based on a youtube video. I don't know of any camera microphones that will record those frequencies at those SPL levels accurately. Don't pay attention to what anything sounds like in a video.


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## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> If you want a box fast, go buy one from Walmart. If you want a box that will sound good and last a good long while, pay extra and be patient.


As the old saying goes: Fast, Cheap, Good. Pick any two.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Sometimes at night, I hear them softly bumping..


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ok, now that the box is on its way, there are a few things I need to mention. I have a new friend who lives nearby that just bought a pair of IDQ12s, and he brought one down so I could test fit it in the box, and it fits perfectly. You'll have no problems there. The flush mount panel is a tad bit wider than the sub, but I made it that way so you could fit a thicker carpet or fabric should you choose to. 

When mounting the subs, you need to drill holes before driving a screw through the MDF. This isn't something you can ignore. Do not over-tighten the screws. Once you feel a good amount of resistance, stop tightening or you'll strip the MDF and have to rotate the subs and make them look weird. Make sure you use coarse thread screws. If the sub's mounting frame is counter-sunk for them like my IDMax10 is, you can use drywall screws. 

I would recommend 3M Spray Adhesive for the fabric. If the fabric is thin, don't over-spray, and be sure to let it dry a bit until it's tacky but not wet. Both of these things are important. If you aren't careful, the glue will seep through the fabric and will leave a blotch on the outside of it that dries and looks like crap. Here's a good video that shows you how to carpet your sub box. 
Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would recommend 3M Spray Adhesive for the fabric. If the fabric is thin, don't over-spray, and be sure to let it dry a bit until it's tacky but not wet. Both of these things are important. If you aren't careful, the glue will seep through the fabric and will leave a blotch on the outside of it that dries and looks like crap. Here's a good video that shows you how to carpet your sub box.
> Elemental Designs: Car Stereo, Home Speakers, Electronics


3M super 77 is great stuff. Also, I found that a strait seam in the carpet tends to draw the eye. Just a little curve in the seam helps hide it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I just noticed that the estimated delivery for your box is tomorrow!


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm psyched haha, So what kind of screws do I need to get for the subs?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> I'm psyched haha, So what kind of screws do I need to get for the subs?


Coarse thread. I don't know if the holes on the sub are countersunk or not. If they are countersunk, you'll want countersunk screws. If they aren't countersunk, you'll want pan head screws. I used drywall screws on my IDMax, which are countersunk.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Im guessing this is counter sunk?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> View attachment 4972
> Im guessing this is counter sunk?


I can't tell from the picture. 

Pan head:









Countersunk:









Buy the one that looks like it would fit.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok, what size/length? Still can't get over how that looked in your trunk lol and 80lbs... You weren't kidding. The prefabs look like 20lbs max.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok, what size/length? Still can't get over how that looked in your trunk lol and 80lbs... You weren't kidding. The prefabs look like 20lbs max.


Not sure. I'd go 1.5" on the screws to make sure they go clear through the MDF. You want a decently good grip on all of them. If they're countersunk, I'd be willing to bet a common drywall screw will work perfectly. You can find them in a variety of sizes in boxes at home depot. They look exactly like larger versions of the second screw picture I posted above. They excellent for MDF because they're coarse threaded and don't strip easily. 

By the way, you can remove the terminal when you put the carpet/fabric on.

Did those IDQs come with any gasket tape or seal?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

I believe the brand new one did


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> I believe the brand new one did


Grab some foam weather sealing from home depot then to seal them. It has an adhesive back. The 3/4" wide stuff will work, any thickness. 

It will look like this:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Box should be waiting at your door. Come on man, don't leave me hanging here!


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

did you get my text?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Where are those pictures of the subs mounted!


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Got way to dark and cold wayy too fast. Irritated to say the least. Everything is hooked up but can't get the Saz to turn on..
Too cold and dark to sit and mess with it any longer tonight. Grr


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Got way to dark and cold wayy too fast. Irritated to say the least. Everything is hooked up but can't get the Saz to turn on..
> Too cold and dark to sit and mess with it any longer tonight. Grr


How did you connect the remote turn-on wire? 

Remember what I said a few times dude, patience. Take your time, or you'll screw something up. One step at a time; you don't need to get it all done in one or two nights. If it takes longer, so be it. Better to get it right the first time then make a mistake and have to pay for it. 

That PAC looked a bit confusing to hook up so I'm guessing that's where the problem is. I'm assuming you have the fuses in the distribution block?

Sorry I missed your text by the way, was having dinner.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

The fuses just screw on top right? can they be upside down or something? The PAC was the easiest part, other than knowing which wire to connect to the remote turn on wire? lol tried both the black and blue as what the instructions said.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

So I just looked at the pac manual again, flipped two parts and BAM. If only it weren't midnight haha. What should I set all the things on the SAZ to? The gain and all that stuff. Is there a way to make sure its hooked up at 1ohm?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> So I just looked at the pac manual again, flipped two parts and BAM. If only it weren't midnight haha. What should I set all the things on the SAZ to? The gain and all that stuff. Is there a way to make sure its hooked up at 1ohm?


LOL. So I take it you heard some bass? 

If you had a multimeter, you could measure the terminal at the back and it should show somewhere around 1ohm. 

Set the gains low. Low pass filter to around 100hz. Then, give it a try. If you need to raise the gains, do that slowly, and I do mean slowly. You'll need to break in the new sub a bit before you start hitting them hard. Give it about a week of "moderate" volume, which should still be loud as ****. The glue on the voice coil needs a few thermal cycles to fully cure. 

You better text me tomorrow when you get a chance to give them some more power.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Lets just say in the car with the bass control remote for the saz 1/12th of the way up I'm more than pleased... I think it's the box. Not the SAZ or the 4 IDQ12'S :goodjob: The bass is soo clean, doesn't sound "farty" at all. Too dark to "see" them bump and really didnt put it anywhere near 15% of it's potential as I have an elderly neighbor who's husband sadly passed away recently.

Pics and video tomorrow after work around 5pm


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Lest just say in the car with the bass control remote for the saz 1/12th of the way up I'm more than pleased... I think it's the box. Not the SAZ or the 4 IDQ12'S :goodjob:


hahaha. Man, I remember the first time I heard a pair of IDQs in a car. I was blown away. I was shocked, jaw dropped. It was incredible how clean those subs sounded. It was just...bass. No sub sound, no distortion, just tight, accurate, musical sound. You'll notice something you won't find with most subs; everything sounds good on these. It's not just certain songs, but absolutely everything. You can kick it to some dumbstep one minute and jam to some classic rock the next and the subs will sound like they just belong. 

Only difference is you have 4 of them, which means you'll get up to insane volumes. 

Very glad to hear you like them. I knew you would. Post back tomorrow after you open them up some, and don't forget the pictures!


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

At 1/12th of the way up I was like people must be hearing this a block away, got out of my car and the trunk wasn't even rattling. Well worth every penny spent and the box just looks insane lol. I don't want no trunk space, I want a big ass box haha


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Just wait till you give them some more power. It will start becoming hard to breathe. The amazing thing will be how clean they'll sound at those levels. The box allows them to sound that clean. 

I'm guessing you now realize why I pushed for a well built box with these subs. ccasion14:


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

haha so I tested them out a little bit today. Took my 14 yr old brother for a 15 minute ride, once we got home he took 2 tylenol and passed out because he was sick lollll. I'm not sure if my settings are correct on the amp. I have bass boost maxed and I use the little remote knob to turn it up or down to my desire. Is this correct?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok so my friend and I seem to think the settings must be off on something...

On my head unit what should the TREBLE, MIDRANGE, AND BASS settings be at? Go from -12 to 12

On the SAZ what should these be at? GAIN, SUBSONIC, LPF, BASS BOOST, PHASE

It seems like certain bass isnt hitting correctly or loud/hard?

Also just touched a multi meter to the back of the sub box connectors and its reading at 2.5 ohms

Ok so I have the subs wired exactly as you said, and in the back of the box I just now wired it the same as the subs, Positive terminal A to Negative terminal B, then ran the speaker wire from Negative terminal A and Positive terminal B to the amp. Reads at 1ohm now but goes into protection mode and cuts off.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> Ok so my friend and I seem to think the settings must be off on something...
> 
> On my head unit what should the TREBLE, MIDRANGE, AND BASS settings be at? Go from -12 to 12
> 
> ...


Are you 100% sure all of the subs you got were Dual 2ohm subs? Did you disconnect the amp before measuring the subs with a multimeter? if you're 100% sure you did, start pulling subs and measuring the voice coils on all of them to make sure they're all about the same. They'll all be a slight bit off, but not by a lot. For example, my Dual 4 ohm IDMax10 reads 3.3ohms on each coil, and that's fine. 

You can adjust the treble, midrange, and bass settings to whatever you want to. I have treble and midrange at 0, and bass at 10 since I don't have a sub in my car. 

Gain is something you need to adjust yourself. Subsonic should be off, LPF should be anywhere from 80-125hz (see what sounds best to you), bass boost should be completely OFF, and phase is something you need to switch based on what sounds best. Phase is dependent on the car and the front speakers.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> haha so I tested them out a little bit today. Took my 14 yr old brother for a 15 minute ride, once we got home he took 2 tylenol and passed out because he was sick lollll. I'm not sure if my settings are correct on the amp. I have bass boost maxed and I use the little remote knob to turn it up or down to my desire. Is this correct?


No wonder it sounds off, you have bass boost maxed. You're probably distorting the signal from the amp, and bass boost only amplifies 45hz, so you're essentially playing only 45hz at the loudest volume you can and all other bass frequencies are being completely drowned out. Turn that off completely. You should be using absolutely no bass boost setting.


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ok trying everything before I unscrew all 4 subs, the multimeter starts at 1 when you turn it on so maybe its reading 2 as 1ohm since it starts at 1? does that make sense?


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## jherman08 (Feb 16, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Are you 100% sure all of the subs you got were Dual 2ohm subs? Did you disconnect the amp before measuring the subs with a multimeter? if you're 100% sure you did, start pulling subs and measuring the voice coils on all of them to make sure they're all about the same. They'll all be a slight bit off, but not by a lot. For example, my Dual 4 ohm IDMax10 reads 3.3ohms on each coil, and that's fine.
> *
> All are dual voice without measuring at least, box and back of subs say 2ohm I checked when I received.*
> *
> ...


*Sounds much much better and very smooth at high settings instead of just pounding with the bass boost off*


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jherman08 said:


> All are dual voice without measuring at least, box and back of subs say 2ohm I checked when I received.
> 
> Didnt remove amp before testing, didnt have the car on as It said not to test with it on. I tested at the amp ports and the sub box both had the same reading. Should I retest with no amp?
> 
> ...


The amplifier will read additional resistance. Disconnect the wire between the amplifier and the sub box before measuring with a multimeter. That said, if it reads 1 while off, that might be why it reads 2 while on. I don't think you have any problems here. I would retest with no amp plugged in anyway, but you should be fine. 

+12 is ok, but it may not sound too great if you do that. Adjust it based on what works best for you. Just keep in mind that increasing the bass volume will also cause the subs to get louder.

You don't measure the low pass filter; that should be a dial or adjustment on the amplifier somewhere. It may be listed as LPF. 

It is perfectly OK to be able to make it loud only by using the remote that came with the amp, although if you disconnect it, you should be able to just increase the gains. Either way, there's no problem in doing it this way. 



jherman08 said:


> *Sounds much much better and very smooth at high settings instead of just pounding with the bass boost off*


I figured it would; you're now hearing the subs the way they were intended to be heard; in their fullness and accuracy. I'll bet it sounds a lot more _*musical *_now. Smooth is exactly how I'd describe these subs. Sounds like you're beginning to enjoy them for what they really are. 

Get some pictures already!


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