# Cruze or the new Dodge Dart?



## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

Nope. I love my Cruze too and I'm not going back to Mopar for nothin'.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

HP isn't everything. Having the right gearing helps, too. 

A tune fixes the HP deficit, and the gearing, especially in the MT's, is pretty good for the most part.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Peak hp means very little. For daily drivability, a flatter torque curve will be much more useful than a higher peak hp rating. Why would I want to rev up to 7500 to make 200hp? The Cruze makes 100% of torque from ~1850-5500 rpm, which is the range you'll be in 90% of the time you'll be accelerating.

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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

I make my living in auto repair. I don't care what any of the magazines say, Chrysler makes the worst vehicles out there. From the new Caravans to the Journey to the 300 and especially Calibers and Compass, nothing on these is built to last. The only other brand I'd avoid is Kia but since most of their lineup is based on parent company Hyundai's platforms, they are better than Chrysler as well.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Even Jeeps aren't built well anymore. My dad owned a Cherokee for 23 years before it finally rusted through the shock mount. Even with 250,000 miles, nothing ever went wrong with that thing. He replaced it with a Liberty and it's been a piece of junk - falling apart at 7 years.


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## MrBlue (May 13, 2012)

Check out the Motor Trend test of the New Dart. Looks good, handles poorly


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

One consideration is how long you plan to keep it? If you are going to lease it for a couple of years, then you don't have to be concerned with MOPAR's long term reliabiltiy.


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

A review I read yesterday pointed out different trim lines for the Dart that includes different performance characteristics. So it can depend on which trim you choose.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Motor Trend and Car and Driver tend to be bipolar at times.

2013 Dodge Dart First Drive - Motor Trend

2013 Dodge Dart Limited First Test - Motor Trend

They say good things in one, and then talk crap about it in the other. 

I still wouldn't buy one (****, I thought the same about a Chevy before I bought the Cruze), but I'd be curious enough to see if I can go drive it.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

They should have brought back the Dodge Shadow not the Dart. That's not a dart. And I would never own anything called a "dart" 

Cruze is where it's at. 


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> Check out the Motor Trend test of the New Dart. Looks good, handles poorly​


Wow! Looks like Dodge took a good handling Chassis and messed it up. Alfa's (if not known for reliability) were at least superb handling drivers cars. The 1.4T Dart w/6M is about even with a 6M Cruze ECO when it comes to acceleration, according to MT and the report I saw on Motorweek. Not that interested in the Dart anymore.


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## SkullCruzeRS (Nov 3, 2011)

I'm just wondering when Chevy is going to do right and bring out a performance model Cruze. Ford has the Focus ST coming soon and there is talk of the Dart SRT4 with a 300+ horsepower turbo.


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## Mikeske (Jun 19, 2012)

When my wife and I were buying last month our Cruze we wanted a widely available car and we were not interested in being the testing crew for any brand, I knew that the Dart was coming out and it was immediately removed from the list for being a new introduction and not having a automatic, air, electric windows on the base model without going up and unknown quality. The Cruze LS has the all of the features we wanted and I had a aftermarket Cruise control installed and the car is even better.

We test drove Corolla, Focus, Mazda 3, Kia and Hyundai Elantra and the Cruze. The reason the Cruze won was a decent interior pleasant ride and better then average gas mileage. The final thing is the fact that my wife will be using the Cruze mainly I will still be driving it and it fit my 4' 9" wife and with me at 6'6" tall I could get the seat back and the car fit me.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

I have a 2012 Cruze LT that has had numerous issues and I decided to test drive a Dodge Dart today to see if I want to switch. I drove a grey Dodge Dart Limited with the 1.4 turbo and dual clutch tranny. Fit and Finish is real good- all interior pieces seem as tight as the Cruze. Interior is nice, the car I drove was all black inside. I would rather have a little more contrast in color then all black. My Cruze has the titanium gray interior which is gray and black. Seats on the Dart are a lot more supportive then the Cruze with much more padding and lumbar support. The tft lcd in the middle of the gauges and the 8.4 flatscreen display are really really cool. Even with the sun they were both visible. I will say adjusting the hvac controls on the lcd screen takes some getting used to- they have manual knobs below the screen but that is only for adjusting temp and fan speed. The lcd screen is used to adjust air flow (like floor, dash vents etc). Interior and exterior is very nice. Powertrain?? As soon as I started up the car I noticed the engine is a lot louder at idle then the Cruze's 1.4 turbo. On the road it is pretty quiet but at throttle it is much noisier then the Cruze. Power from the Dart's turbo must be at a higher rpm then the Cruze. Off the line the Cruze is faster initially and the power seems to drop. The Dart is slower initially but then the power kicks in. The Dart can handle passing on the highway better then the Cruze. I know people are praising the Dart's handling, but I did not notice much difference than the Cruze to be honest. The throaty dual exhaust note is kind of cool from the Dart too. This was my first time driving a dual clutch transmission and it really was uneventful- there was a strange downshift once when I sped up going around a corner, and the shifting was a little more noticeable between gears but for the most part it was uneventful. I think the 2012 Cruze 6sp auto is actually smoother but I am not sure it is fair to compare because they both are totally different types of transmissions. Overall the Dart is a little more sporty and the gadgets are really cool, but I still prefer the quietness and refinement of the Cruze. For me, who does a lot of long distance driving, the Cuze is a better car. However, I would not hesitate to get a Dart. Who knows, if I don't get these issues settled with my Cruze I may have a Dart soon.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

The dart is a rebadged alfa romeo, heard it still has tge same quirks all dodges still have

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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

tge??- At least I did not smell any coolant at all when I opened up the hood of the Dart. lol


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## 20131pz69 (Oct 22, 2012)

Maybe this is me getting old, but this is what i thought- 
i) in 10 years, will my car still look good? Cruze- YES, Dart- NO (interior too black/ gimmicky (gauges look like they are out of a video game- will not age well & the exterior will not age well, either. It already looks a little dated)
Haven't driven a dart & don't know how they will change over the years (or the cruze), so can't say how they feel. 

I would hold off on the Dart, though- you may end up in the same situation as your cruze (1st gen Dart/ model year will likely have a lot of issues)


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> tge??- At least I did not smell any coolant at all when I opened up the hood of the Dart. lol


So why are you on a cruze forum real good funny fonzie haha get outta witg your alfa romeo which everyone knows those cars cost more to own than the sticker price

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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

Hey jakkaroo look at my threads and then tell me how thrilled you would be if you owned my Cruze:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ch...9559-advice-how-deal-my-cruze-situtation.html

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/5843-antifreeze-smell-thread.html


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> Hey jakkaroo look at my threads and then tell me how thrilled you would be if you owned my Cruze:
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ch...9559-advice-how-deal-my-cruze-situtation.html
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/5843-antifreeze-smell-thread.html


And what you think a first year car is going to be provlem free there are lemons out there buddy, i already heard the darts are eating ball joints with 6000 miles on then no telling there trannys and heads are gonne go out, and tell me why you keep coming back to a cruze forun cause you know its a better car than that alfa romeo garbage

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## oMAHONEYo (Mar 23, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Even Jeeps aren't built well anymore. My dad owned a Cherokee for 23 years before it finally rusted through the shock mount. Even with 250,000 miles, nothing ever went wrong with that thing. He replaced it with a Liberty and it's been a piece of junk - falling apart at 7 years.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


Same thing on my end. My Dad's 300 gave him nothing but headaches, so he ended up buying a Cherokee, which isn't TERRIBLE, but it just feels a lot older than it should for only being 5 years old. My Mom's Liberty is the worst of all, probably a good $5000+ in repairs in the last 3 years, it's about 10 years old now, with only 100,000km on it. It's died too many times to count.



Anyway, the new Dart looks like a glorified neon. There are only two cool things about the car. It has projectors, and it's interior features. Other than that, it's a dodge. I'd stay away away away. You want horsepower? Like mentioned above, a tune and an intake, and you'll actually have the HP in a RPM range you might actually drive in.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

It's hilarious.

How long have those stupid Darts been out on lots? Months now?

I have only seen ONE Dart in my constant travel in the soutwestern corner of PA. ONE!

The same Darts are sitting in the Dodge Dealers I drive past every day..

I am seeing more Foci though.. not nearly as often as a GM product though. I see those every 3-4 out of 5 cars.


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## 2013Cruze (Aug 4, 2012)

I'd take a basic Cruze over a dodge dart.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Is the Dart even in the same class as the Cruze? I guess they get close mileage, but size wise, the 200 (Chrysler though, I know) is more of a competitor. I believe the Dart only has four lug wheels, where the Cruze is five, so the Dart would be much lighter duty/lighter weight.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

Sunline Fan said:


> Is the Dart even in the same class as the Cruze? I guess they get close mileage, but size wise, the 200 (Chrysler though, I know) is more of a competitor. I believe the Dart only has four lug wheels, where the Cruze is five, so the Dart would be much lighter duty/lighter weight.


The dart is a small class car just like the cruze so yes

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## Aftica (Oct 22, 2012)

Okay, I'll chime in. I did my research before I purchased my Cruze. I drove all types of vehicles and the Dodge Dart was one of them. My feeling of the dodge dart was it was plastic. I liked the race track tail lights and the gauge cluster and the touch screen control. As far as space inside, well it was lacking. Performance wise it was also lacking. Now, with that being said I did not look at a fully loaded model because my local dealer is night of the highest caliber. When I arrived the place had a smell of cat urine and week old beef burrito. That too may have changed my opinion of the dodge cars. 

I love my Cruze. This coming from a guy that was spending $120 - $200 a week in fuel and now spends roughly $50 (with my weekly car wash). It's a beautiful car and it handles great. I drive it like a sports car and I am not bashful to use the turbo. I still average 32 to 36 mpg so I couldn't be happier.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

OnlyTaurus said:


> It's hilarious.
> 
> How long have those stupid Darts been out on lots? Months now?
> 
> ...


I think I see the new Elantras more than anything besides a Civic/Corolla. At least in my area.


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## rmass09 (Apr 17, 2011)

Saw 2 truckloads of darts headed east on 70 today. I do like the exterior look of the dart but the starting price and the options you get at that turned me off, didn't test drive. As far as Chrysler reliability my dad loved his 06 Dodge Magnum ( I hated it and for the record i put that B**** in a ditch once  ) and his 09 Chrysler 300. He puts a lot of miles on them both (120,000 on the 300 in 3 years) and had no reliability issues. His 2012 Ford Fusion? He'd like nothing better than to drive that off the dock into Lake Erie.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

Not seeing many Dodge Darts either except on the dealer lot.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

Here in socal ive seen about 4 seen about a dozen focui and a bunch of automatic ecos and theres quite o few volts rolling around with black wheels black bowties

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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

I too looked at the dart when making my latest purchase and the only nice thing was the interior. However, it wasn't better than the cruze (I'd say it was even). At the end of the day, I couldn't get the dart because it was too rounded and reminded me immediately of a neon. 

If I didn't car about mpg, the car that I almost bought over the cruze was the focus st. But the est. 26mpg was not going to meet my needs.


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## cronyjabrony (Aug 10, 2012)

I almost bought a Dart before I bought my Cruze. The things I liked about the dart were the interior, the back end, and the sound. They nailed the sound with the factory duals. You can even hear the turbo whistle through the stock exhaust Check my link. The things that swayed me to the Cruze were: Price, track record and the time I was looking at cars I happened to go on a 6 hour road trip with my buddy Charles and we took his GF's 2011 Cruze RS. I fell in love. I was frustrated with dodge not having all models available at launch, no discounts in price etc. As for reliability, I guess time will tell but considering most of the Dart is actually based on Fiat, it might be the best they got quality wise. 2013 Dodge Dart Rallye Turbo 6-spd Start Up, Exhaust, and In Depth Review - YouTube


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

cronyjabrony said:


> 2013 Dodge Dart Rallye Turbo 6-spd Start Up, Exhaust, and In Depth Review - YouTube


Saabkyle04's videos are quite good. But at the end of the day, he comes from a two-Cruze family...


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

When my LS got totalled I did look at other cars before buying my Eco, the Dart was the first one. In my opinion it is seriously ugly. 

When i test drove the car I found a decent bit of body roll, even more than my LS trim Cruze. As I accelerated, there was no smooth transition of power. It was like driving a single cam Honda with a huge turbo. Push the gas, nothing, nothing, nothing, holy **** spool!. 

I then went and test drove a Sonic. Much too small.

So i bought the Cruze eco. 

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## The_Madcat (Oct 6, 2012)

thaicruze said:


> Dont know about Dodge, but anything is better than a Cruze. It will turn into a Lemon sooner or later.


Secretly, at midnight, the Cruze turns into a Civic and heads to the Ball!

Don't you have better things to do than try to derail everyone else' posts?


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

thaicruze said:


> Dont know about Dodge, but anything is better than a Cruze. It will turn into a Lemon sooner or later.


Really dude? I mean really? Grow up. (Rolls eyes)

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## Ru5ty (Jun 20, 2012)

looks really cheap inside , iv'e also driven one ( a 2.0L ) and i hated it


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## 20131pz69 (Oct 22, 2012)

Dodge Dart falls short of Consumer Reports Recommended, Caddy XTS and Lincoln MKS, too


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

Believing Consumer Reports is like asking a homeless guy what wine to eat with dinner. I have seen them gripe about a cars interior on one brand (usually domestic) but when a foreign car (japanese) has a funky interior or on that is cheap, they gloss over it by saying you get used to it or it isn't a big deal. If it isn't a big deal, then why does it take so many points away from the domestic car? They do this crap all the time.


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## herchevycruze (Aug 7, 2011)

I have a 6spd manual eco and decided to take the Dart out a few weeks ago to see how it compares to my Cruze. I test drove the 1.4 Turbo with the 6spd manual. What I did like about it was that it seemed quieter inside while driving, the seats were more comfortable and the Nav was very impressive. As far as the actual performance of the car I was not impressed. I didn't think I was being that hard on the car "didn't have it floored" although my husband in the passenger seat thought I was beating the crap out of it :1poke:I know that it has more horse and that eventually it would pick up speed but I wasn't impressed, I told the salesman my cruze could wax it  Not to mention to buy a Dart with the same options as my Cruze it would be several thousands more. So all in all, no thanks


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

herchevycruze said:


> I have a 6spd manual eco and decided to take the Dart out a few weeks ago to see how it compares to my Cruze. I test drove the 1.4 Turbo with the 6spd manual. What I did like about it was that it seemed quieter inside while driving, the seats were more comfortable and the Nav was very impressive. As far as the actual performance of the car I was not impressed. I didn't think I was being that hard on the car "didn't have it floored" although my husband in the passenger seat thought I was beating the crap out of it :1poke:I know that it has more horse and that eventually it would pick up speed but I wasn't impressed, I told the salesman my cruze could wax it  Not to mention to buy a Dart with the same options as my Cruze it would be several thousands more. So all in all, no thanks


So it's not just me! The 1.4T Dart will move pretty nicely if you gun it at the top end (and faster than the Cruze), but it's freaking impossible to drive smoothly!

It does look and sound nice, but contrary to what others here said, I thought the interior aside from the dash screen/nav screen was really, really cheap. The shifter is clunky, the clutch is grabby, and the dash/seats just look super cheap. 

Way better AC than the Cruze though, I will admit that. 


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## herchevycruze (Aug 7, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> So it's not just me! The 1.4T Dart will move pretty nicely if you gun it at the top end (and faster than the Cruze), but it's freaking impossible to drive smoothly!
> 
> It does look and sound nice, but contrary to what others here said, I thought the interior aside from the dash screen/nav screen was really, really cheap. The shifter is clunky, the clutch is grabby, and the dash/seats just look super cheap.
> 
> ...


I didn't try the AC so I can't comment on that but I will definately agree about the clutch, terrible!!


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

The dart has a timing belt and not a chain like the 1.4 turbo cruze motor.


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## mba200687 (Apr 1, 2012)

The Dart does look impressive but I'm Chevy to the core. You would have to drop the price to %25 and add every feature before I would trade my Cruze for a Dart.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

Id stick with your cruze. I got one and from experience, dodges are a piece of horse ****. so are fords. Its up to you, but i think you would be dumb and stupid to trade your cruze in for one of those. your call. Had nothing but good with my cruze. How do i know fords and dodges suck, well im an automechanic and ive worked on them all the time...WOW...never wish i took on a job like that. Seriously. Poor builds. poor designs. poor everything


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

I agree. Im no ford, dodge, nissan, toyota, mazda, or kia person...but i will say the cruze would blow that dart out of the water on everything it offers. Nobody else can compete with GM/Chevrolet. Only reason why dodge and ford are doing decent is bec they stole the idea from gm on the macpherson and independent strut design and the fuel system for mpg. Thats basically the main reason y ppl are dumb enough to buy either of those two. I know this bec im a automechanic for GM and its in our newsfeeds somewhere on the websites. Im not trying to sound like a dick but bottom line all those makes i listed above TOTALLY SUCK BALLS!!! so many problems with all of those cars. Not too many with chevy or other GM cars. Just saying.


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## Nikon1234 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi. Guys:

I am new here. I owned a civic lx 5spd for 10 years and put 120k on it. It was totaled by a Mazda Lady. I am in the process on buying a 2012 eco manual. 

Please educate me on the acceleration time and drive feeling among those peak power, torque .torque and power band

"Peak hp means very little. For daily drivability, a flatter torque curve will be much more useful than a higher peak hp rating. Why would I want to rev up to 7500 to make 200hp? The Cruze makes 100% of torque from ~1850-5500 rpm, which is the range you'll be in 90% of the time you'll be accelerating.
"

those are from XtremRevolution.

Thanks.

Dan


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Nikon1234 -

I usually shift my ECO between 1800 and 2000 RPM (1st gear is higher because it revs up a lot faster). If I need to out accelerate traffic I boost my shift ranges by 1000 RPM. Peak torque in the ECO MT starts at 2500 RPM and is flat to 4700 RPM where HP peaks. I very rarely see 3K RPM and spend over 95% of my time at or below 2K RPM. The gearing in the ECO MT is a little odd at first, but that's because 4 5, and 6 are all overdrive gears. 5th gear in the ECO has the same drive ratio as 6th in the LT. The turbo actually starts to spool up at 1500 RPM and is fully spooled at some point between 1850 and 2000 RPM, but if your plugs are gapped correctly (multiple threads here about this) you won't actually notice the turbo until somewhere between 2500 and 3000 RPM.

My personal opinion is that the ECO MT is the best highway car in the US today. The EPA estimate of 42 MPG is very conservative for this car. It also ranks up there for city driving and stop/go traffic. I routinely exceed 35 MPG in rush hour stop & go traffic.


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## Nikon1234 (Nov 25, 2012)

Thanks obermd. So the acceleration is done by the torque, while peak torque is between 2500-4000 rpm. What then the hp plays here? I am sorry to ask these simple question. I have been driven manual for a long time, but only lightly and smoothly. Only recently did I start to drive manual in a more 'fun' style.

Thanks.

Dan


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Nikon1234 said:


> Thanks obermd. So the acceleration is done by the torque, while peak torque is between 2500-4000 rpm. What then the hp plays here? I am sorry to ask these simple question. I have been driven manual for a long time, but only lightly and smoothly. Only recently did I start to drive manual in a more 'fun' style.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Dan


Torque = around-town acceleration. The more torque, the more effortless "normal" acceleration is. That's the reason V6/V8's are usually pretty lazy engines and still quick - lots of low-end torque.

HP = highway passing power. The Cruze is lacking in this department, and the Dart/Focus would probably pull ahead after 50-60 mph in a drag race.

But all in all, the Cruze is a much more drivable city car because of all the low-end torque than either the Focus or Dart.

Another way of putting it: "HP is how fast you hit the wall; torque is how far you push it"


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## Kingsal (Sep 21, 2012)

the dart is for ****.. just sayin..


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

:sigh: 

Other thoughts: The Dart's turbo engine is from the FIAT abarth. The dart weighs over 500 pounds more than the abarth!!! So Dart/FIAT is asking that engine which does feel great in the abarth (you guys need to test this race car/go kart) to do a lot more work. More work = questionable reliability (personally I think the engine is over worked). 

Cruze (especially with a tune) wins hands down.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> the dart is for ****.. just sayin..


That's mature.



giantsnation said:


> :sigh:
> 
> Other thoughts: The Dart's turbo engine is from the FIAT abarth. The dart weighs over 500 pounds more than the abarth!!! So Dart/FIAT is asking that engine which does feel great in the abarth (you guys need to test this race car/go kart) to do a lot more work. More work = questionable reliability (personally I think the engine is over worked).
> 
> Cruze (especially with a tune) wins hands down.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You don't think the 1.4 in the Cruze is overworked with a 3,150 lb car? I do. It relies on a ton of air forced into it to make its power. A tune forces more air into there. The Dart has almost the same curb weight as a Cruze.

The Cruze weighs more than my sister's Ford Escape. It's a porky little car with a small engine, as is the Dart.

That said, turbo engines these days have proven to be very reliable. There are many small turbocharged engines in European cars. Aside from VW, Fords, Volvo's and Saab's small engines have proven to be very reliable, as are most small turbodiesels.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

My Cruze 1.4t auto was quicker off the line, smoother and quieter then the Dart turbo with the dual clutch tranny. The only major advantages I see over the Cruze is that the Dart has more power when passing on the highway (with the turbo) and has more supportive seats (especially lumbar). I prefer the Cruze big time over the Dart- I did not mean to confuse anyone. I will say again, the Dart is a nice car and I would probably be happy driving it if I had not have had a Cruze beforehand. This is not the same Chrysler people- it is essentially Fiat, and Fiat itself is not the same company it was- both companies have improved. I am suprised by all the negativity.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I keep hearing people complaining about the lack of passing power in the Cruze. I can only speak for the manuals transmission here, but both my LS and ECO have more than enough power to accelerate and pass other cars going up I-70 west out of Denver. In addition, my ECO MT has more than enough power to accelerate up to the two highest points on the US Interstate system, I-70 Eisenhower Tunnels, Vail Pass as well as Georgetown Hill. You can't do it in 6th gear, but then neither can just about any other car on the road - they all downshift. There are a lot of cars on the road that are unable to maintain speed going up these climbs. In the Cruze MT, it's just a matter of selecting the correct gear.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

With my LT automatic I find it struggles at upshifting when you need a quick boost to pass on the highway- the rpms skyrocket but it takes forever to get the car moving. Off the the line the 1.4t 6speed auto is quick with little turbo lag.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> I keep hearing people complaining about the lack of passing power in the Cruze. I can only speak for the manuals transmission here, but both my LS and ECO have more than enough power to accelerate and pass other cars going up I-70 west out of Denver. In addition, my ECO MT has more than enough power to accelerate up to the two highest points on the US Interstate system, I-70 Eisenhower Tunnels, Vail Pass as well as Georgetown Hill. You can't do it in 6th gear, but then neither can just about any other car on the road - they all downshift. There are a lot of cars on the road that are unable to maintain speed going up these climbs. In the Cruze MT, it's just a matter of selecting the correct gear.


It can climb hills great because of the torque, sure. I've experienced that myself in the mountains.

But there's no "punch it, Chewie!" effect. You get out in your lane, downshift to 3rd or 4th, the engine makes a lot of noise, and you slowly speed up. It's to be expected of such a small engine, though - but generally cars with turbos have a little bit more of a "punch". Floor the Dart, a Ford Ecoboost, or a Saab, and it'll push you back in the seat once the turbo picks up.

The Cruze has a very small turbo designed for low-RPM assistance that just runs out of breath at high engine speeds. With all turbocharged cars, there's a compromise at one end of the performance spectrum.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

I can't say anything bad about Chrysler, since my mentor and an adopted by me father was a Chrysler Plymouth dealer. He certainly new a lot about what makes a car tick and how to repair them. And got me started when I was nine years old.

Chrysler was the most innovative automotive company in the world at one time, their hemi in the 50's could leave any GM product in the dust. In stock cars, did have the tip-toe shift, we called it turtle torque, but if you knew how, was a four speed transmission and could be speed shifted. I wish my Cruze had their fluid drive in manual transmission cars. If weren't in a hurry, could drive them like an AT, just leaving it in 3rd gear. No need to use the clutch, just hit the brake at a stop sign, then the gas, even with a small six, car would take off smoothly with no engine bog down.

But this company did have distractions, like Walter more interested in building the world's tallest skyscraper and of all places, in NYC. Should have use that money to improve production, Henry was good at that. In this ear, GM was far more interested in selling you a new car every two years. Kind of like Gillette with a throwaway razor blade.

Iaccoca did bring the company back by putting a large box on a compact car chassis, but let's face facts, these vehicles were never reliable as that drivetrain was constantly under strain. Then downhill again, even the Germans couldn't do anything with that company. Maybe the French can do better.

But Chrysler is an old American name, certainly had their share of management problems, but I hope they can get their act together and come back as a strong US based company like they once were.

Prior to the great depression, we had over 3,300 automotive companies in this country. Kind of hoping we still can have three. During the late 60's, 70's and most of the 80's, all automotive companies were making crap. Kind of contribute that to the EPA and DOT taking over the automotive industry followed by the insurance companies.

There are things I don't care about with all these newer vehicles, like in tank fuel pumps, flashram firmware storage, lack of self-diagnostics, all the information about error codes is in the PCM and BCM, only lacks a two buck readout so you know what the problem is. Then generation III to make troubleshooting even more difficult. Then what happen to screws, had this discussion with my dealer body shop manager. Most of that unsnap stuff breaks off, so has to be replace, further jacking up your repair bill.

Could go on, but enough for now.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> With my LT automatic I find it struggles at upshifting when you need a quick boost to pass on the highway- the rpms skyrocket but it takes forever to get the car moving. Off the the line the 1.4t 6speed auto is quick with little turbo lag.





jblackburn said:


> It can climb hills great because of the torque, sure. I've experienced that myself in the mountains.
> 
> But there's no "punch it, Chewie!" effect. You get out in your lane, downshift to 3rd or 4th, the engine makes a lot of noise, and you slowly speed up. It's to be expected of such a small engine, though - but generally cars with turbos have a little bit more of a "punch". Floor the Dart, a Ford Ecoboost, or a Saab, and it'll push you back in the seat once the turbo picks up.
> 
> The Cruze has a very small turbo designed for low-RPM assistance that just runs out of breath at high engine speeds. With all turbocharged cars, there's a compromise at one end of the performance spectrum.


The wonders of automatic transmissions. In my opinion even the best of them spend too much time thinking. To pass on the highway I'll downshift to 3rd and punch it. The turbo spin up time after the downshift is about as long as it take me to let the clutch out. My ECO MT responds immediately with more than enough passing power. If I have more time to pass I drop to 4th or 5th, depending on the amount of time I have.


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You don't think the 1.4 in the Cruze is overworked with a 3,150 lb car? I do. It relies on a ton of air forced into it to make its power. A tune forces more air into there. The Dart has almost the same curb weight as a Cruze.


You misunderstood my post which I understand was clear as mud. The point was that GM designed the Cruze *with *the 1.4t. Chrysler designed the dart and sourced their motor from the Abarth. So, no I don't think the Cruze motor is overworked. However, I can only speak for the ECO MT. Like all the MTs I have driven (including VW turbos), you downshift to pass (raising RPMs). Thus the engine gets louder and you have plenty of passing power.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

giantsnation said:


> You misunderstood my post which I understand was clear as mud. The point was that GM designed the Cruze *with *the 1.4t. Chrysler designed the dart and sourced their motor from the Abarth. So, no I don't think the Cruze motor is overworked. However, I can only speak for the ECO MT. Like all the MTs I have driven (including VW turbos), you downshift to pass (raising RPMs). Thus the engine gets louder and you have plenty of passing power.


My point is that the Cruze still strains to make its power, just as the Fiat engine in the Dodge would have to do. While I may upshift at 2500-3500 RPM most of the time and think that the Cruze has enough power to keep me happy most of the time, I find that if I push my foot down a little more on the gas (which is usually around 1/2-3/4 throttle), the Cruze just doesn't have anything more left to give. That engine is already giving me most of its potential in *stock* form. I don't think it's going to have any longevity issues from running like this, as it was designed from the ground-up to run high levels of boost, as was Fiat's engine, as was Ford's Ecoboost. They're not just slapping turbos onto pre-existing engines.

I thought the Eco was underpowered because of the widespread gear ratios. Maybe I'm just more demanding on my car, having had faster ones in the past. An average Honda Accord has WAY more highway passing power than the Cruze.

Could I tune it? Sure. It has the potential there. But who's to say the Dart engine doesn't either?

Not saying the Dart is a good car - I hated it. But I just don't see what your actual point is.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

I have no qualms with my 1.4L stick, when cruising at 60 or 70 mph on some fairly steep Wisconsin hills, hangs right in there in sixth gear. May drop a single mpH in cruise on some of the steeper hills, but not worth downshifting for.

On those same hills with my powerful Supra turbo, with an AT, it will automatically downshift up those same hills. But feel it would do better if they would let me drive it at 150 mph where the torque curve is superior.

My Cruze wasn't that way when I received it. First thing I did was dump those crazy NGK needle point plugs and installed double platinum Autolite's gapping them to 28 mils. Next thing, perhaps the most major change, was stretching out those springs in the coil pack so at least they could make contact with the plugs. With that simple change, my 1.4 L really came to life.


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## Dale_K (Jul 16, 2011)

I test drove a Dart with the turbo and the manual trans and it was really fast. The multi-air technology is good stuff. I could hear a lot of valve noise at idle but nothing while actually driving.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dale_K said:


> I test drove a Dart with the turbo and the manual trans and it was really fast. The multi-air technology is good stuff. I could hear a lot of valve noise at idle but nothing while actually driving.


How did it feel when trying to drive it calmly like one would during their daily commute? I've heard that the turbo lag is a bit annoying and the power delivery comes in a big surge that's annoying to drive normally; not at all a smooth and transparent power delivery like the Cruze. They compromised daily drivability for more performance.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## Dale_K (Jul 16, 2011)

The power delivery felt pretty natural to me. It felt a lot like my Cruze until I hit floored the gas and the rpms got up to 4,000. Then it felt like it had 200 hp, lol.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

I'm going to skip everyone's post and just say to get a Cruze unless you plan on getting the Dart SRT-4 model. If you want power then get power (No one wants to hear you asking about how to your your base model Dart as fast as SRT-4 version). If you want nice ride, overall sporty look and feel while still being able to commute to work, get a Cruze.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

titan2782 said:


> I'm going to skip everyone's post and just say to get a Cruze unless you plan on getting the Dart SRT-4 model. If you want power then get power (No one wants to hear you asking about how to your your base model Dart as fast as SRT-4 version). If you want nice ride, overall sporty look and feel while still being able to commute to work, get a Cruze.


There's a reason no Darts are on the road. 

My local Dodge/Chrysler dealer still have the same Farts on their lot for months now.

And of course, my Chevy dealer gets Cruze shipments at least bi-weekly. 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> I'm going to skip everyone's post and just say to get a Cruze unless you plan on getting the Dart SRT-4 model. If you want power then get power (No one wants to hear you asking about how to your your base model Dart as fast as SRT-4 version). If you want nice ride, overall sporty look and feel while still being able to commute to work, get a Cruze.​


And expect to pay $30,000 for an SRT Dart.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

blk88verde said:


> And expect to pay $30,000 for an SRT Dart.


And? 

You have to pay to play. Performance doesn't come cheap. Not only do you get power but you also get a warranty for that power. Assuming Dodge continues with their stage kits, you can upgrade for more power and continue to be under warranty.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

This thread is beginning to remind me of my grade school days, where my old man's Chevy is better than your old man's Ford. Or Dart in this case.

In one instance, all vehicles are essentially the same, by law, have to be manufactured according to the dictates of our government.

In terms of service, that can really depend on your dealership, read some of the posts here by Cruze owners that have poor dealer service.

Couldn't object to my own son purchasing a Chrysler product, his dealer goes out of his way to please him. Sure can't say that about his Chevy dealer in his town. Plus he received one **** of a huge rebate.

Performance is yet another issue, but the bottom line is, if you get a performance vehicle and use it, its not going to last very long plus risk having your drivers' license taken away, or your insurance rates will skyrocket.

Driving a Cruze is not the best choice in my neck of the woods loaded with huge pickup trucks and SUV's. But I can get my revenge by taking my motorhome out. My key concern is not making the oil companies any richer than they are just to get from point A to point B.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

NickD said:


> This thread is beginning to remind me of my grade school days, where my old man's Chevy is better than your old man's Ford. Or Dart in this case.
> 
> In one instance, all vehicles are essentially the same, by law, have to be manufactured according to the dictates of our government.
> 
> ...


Yeah.. but we're comparing a Cruze to a Dart here. It's Chrysler's move against our GM 40+MPG sub-compact. No competition.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

If the SRT is AWD i'll have to check it out


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Hoon said:


> If the SRT is AWD i'll have to check it out


Still all vehicles have AWB's (All Wheel Brakes), people around here with AWD or 4WD are the first ones to land in the ditch. Of slide through a stop sign on icy roads, because they think an AWD or 4WD gives them better stopping traction.

People that drive 2WD vehicles are a lot more careful and don't get into situations like this.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> Still all vehicles have AWB's (All Wheel Brakes), people around here with AWD or 4WD are the first ones to land in the ditch. Of slide through a stop sign on icy roads, because they think an AWD or 4WD gives them better stopping traction.
> 
> People that drive 2WD vehicles are a lot more careful and don't get into situations like this.


That's kinda aside from the point. AWD on a "performance" car with lots of power = no wheelspin on take-off. Subaru STI's don't have AWD because people bought them to drive them in snow. Launching a powerful FWD car at full throttle usually means lots of wheelspin or traction control kicking in - or, if you're a good driver, modulating the power yourself. 

If they put the 285-hp 2.4 in the SRT from the Caliber, that would definitely be a wise decision to go with AWD.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> That's kinda aside from the point. AWD on a "performance" car with lots of power = no wheelspin on take-off.


That's the one thing I really liked about my Montana. In snow and ice at least one wheel could grip. If none gripped then they would all be working with whatever grip was available.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

NickD said:


> Still all vehicles have AWB's (All Wheel Brakes), people around here with AWD or 4WD are the first ones to land in the ditch. Of slide through a stop sign on icy roads, because they think an AWD or 4WD gives them better stopping traction.
> 
> People that drive 2WD vehicles are a lot more careful and don't get into situations like this.


Lol, i could care less about winter driving. 



jblackburn said:


> That's kinda aside from the point. AWD on a "performance" car with lots of power = no wheelspin on take-off..


Exactly, i'd look into it for fast car reasons. I hate the Evo X, and i'd eat my own poo before buying an STI. 

My old DSM didn't hook in 1st or 2nd above about 28-30psi. Making about 630hp at the crank it would spin all 4 to 60+mph. Still got to 60 in 3.3 seconds on a street tire and unprepped surface. 

I prefer the dynamics of RWD...no idea what my next car will be, but i'll be keeping the cruze as a DD regardless of the next build/purchase.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> My old DSM didn't hook in 1st or 2nd above about 28-30psi. Making about 630hp at the crank it would spin all 4 to 60+mph. Still got to 60 in 3.3 seconds on a street tire and unprepped surface.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

A buddy of mine has the caliber SRT-4 and there is very little support for the platform. Tuning options are very limited...or so i'm told


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Hoon said:


> A buddy of mine has the caliber SRT-4 and there is very little support for the platform. Tuning options are very limited...or so i'm told


That's because no one else actually bought a Caliber because it was a terrible car. But the 2.4 turbo engine is respectably powerful and will *hopefully* carry over and gain some support.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

Hoon said:


> A buddy of mine has the caliber SRT-4 and there is very little support for the platform. Tuning options are very limited...or so i'm told


Most of the guys on the srt forums tune themselves using a hand held controller and software. They don't have much aftermarket support like Trifecta and VT. You can certainly find knowledgeable people there who can tune your setup. 

Keep in mind the success (or lack there of) of the Caliber doesn't necessarily determine the success of the Dart. The Dart is Dodge's only worthy car in the MPG arena so it's defiantly going to get love. Plus, the Caliber was hideous. Additionally, look at the Caliber's life span and the events that occurred within. 

But, Hoon has a point. This is something to consider. Dart is new and who knows which way the market will go. Cruze has a track record you can go off of. But again it depends on what you want. Go either way but just don't get a base model and expect to spend $1000 transforming it into a 10s 1/4 car. If you want performance then buy it to start with.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> That's because no one else actually bought a Caliber because it was a terrible car. But the 2.4 turbo engine is respectably powerful and will *hopefully* carry over and gain some support.


It's like a truck motor. Torquey, but doesn't breathe well up top (stock). They seem to be good for about 320whp with the basic mods. 



titan2782 said:


> Most of the guys on the srt forums tune themselves using a hand held controller and software. They don't have much aftermarket support like Trifecta and VT. You can certainly find knowledgeable people there who can tune your setup.
> 
> Keep in mind the success (or lack there of) of the Caliber doesn't necessarily determine the success of the Dart. The Dart is Dodge's only worthy car in the MPG arena so it's defiantly going to get love. Plus, the Caliber was hideous. Additionally, look at the Caliber's life span and the events that occurred within.
> 
> But, Hoon has a point. This is something to consider. Dart is new and who knows which way the market will go. Cruze has a track record you can go off of. But again it depends on what you want. Go either way but just don't get a base model and expect to spend $1000 transforming it into a 10s 1/4 car. If you want performance then buy it to start with.


He told me about AEM FIC, but apparently over time the ECU realizes it's being tricked and slowly detunes itself. I guess you end up having to reset the ECU when you want the car to make power. I don't have any experience with those cars but something tells me i'll be wrenching on his caliber soon.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Apparently Dodge has an answer to the Focus SFE and Cruze Eco now, too.

2013 Dodge Dart Aero Priced at $20,090

Looks like they've now got all the trim levels covered - including the high performance one Chevy lacks. 

Now, to see if the public will like it. I have yet to see a Dart on the road around here. 

The compact segment is tough competition when there's so many good competitors, and the mid-size segment has good offerings in so close a price range too.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

Went shopping tonight and saw a guy sitting in a Target parking lot in his brand new Dart Limited- it was dark and man did it look sharp. The rear led taillights really look nice and the red trim around the dash plus the big lcd screen looked great at night. Whether you like the Dart or not, it is great to see the Big 3 finally have 3 competitive class C cars now.


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## rmass09 (Apr 17, 2011)

^^^ this, I'd rather have another American car on the road than a fleet of civics and camrys, it list its more interesting to look at then those blobs of cars.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> Whether you like the Dart or not, it is great to see the Big 3 finally have 3 competitive class C cars now.


That I can agree with, absolutely.


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## chaser x (Sep 3, 2012)

I will be keeping my Cruze LS 1.8 for years to come.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Just a bit of information relative to the Dart. They shut the 3rd shift down at the Dundee, MI plant that makes the engines for the Dart. Why? Poor sales of the model. They are fat with them on the dealers lots. Might be a good time to shop for one, before demand catches up with supply. Me, it's on my no-no list along with the Focus and Corolla.


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## timeos2 (Feb 3, 2013)

Most of the reviews are not very positive overall. They have a nice look, certainly a big step up from the Caliber but far from a world class vehicle. We looked at one but the Cruze was a much more polished vehicle regardless of trim / feature level. If we were renting we might have given it a try as we'd know it would be gone in 36 months but we wanted a long term vehicle and the Cruze was the best value we found for that. And much better looking than the Focus/Honda/Toyota/Hyundai/Kia are.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

I drove both and they were close in acceleration until you got to the 2.4 engine. The multi air 1.4 didn't feel any better than the cruze. The 2.0 was about the same. The 2.4 had some beans to it, but not anything like the Focus ST has. Still wishing for a 1.6T or even a milder 2.0T to grace the engine bay.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

unitednations161 said:


> I have a 2011 cruze, but went to see the new Dart today. Anyone going to switch? they are getting a lot more horse out of their 1.4l motor.
> 
> Just curious on what everyone thinks. I do love my cruze.


I actually test drove 2 different Neon ... Oops, I mean uh, Darts, and was unimpressed to say the least. I have a 2012 Eco 6MT. The Dart manual with it's extra ponies seemed to me to accelerate slower and "rubber-banded" multiple times under the same acceleration. That is to say, it seemed like the engine electronics couldn't keep up with what was being demanded by the gas pedal, and had somewhat of a pendulum effect if you will. Now, my Cruze does the same thing under heavy acceleration, but not nearly as often during a run up through the gears as the dart did! But then again, I have the Injen CAI installed, and after reading on here, that's a known issue that disappears with a tune. And I'm not here to bash anyone or any particular car, just stating MY opinion after actually having driven 2 different trim levels of the Neo ... er, Dart. I do like the factory "dual" exhaust, but I think they went a lil overboard on the tip size. If I recall, they looked larger in diameter than those on a Camaro or Mustang! I'm actually planning to "upgrade" to a 2013 Eco in the near future though, because I can't see spending extra $ on the diesel variant with the same mpg ratings! 
You gotta get what you like ... so I suggest driving ALL cars you're considering purchasing (on the same day) and ensure you're comparing "apples to apples" when making your choice. In other words, don't go drive an automatic Cruze and compare it to the 2.0 Dart with a manual tranny, or even the 1.4 Dart with manual tranny ... apples to apples! I think you'll find the Cruze to be the better choice, but YOU have to decide what you desire, and which one will meet those desires most efficiently. Best of luck in your car shopping!


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Cruze or new Dodge Dart is the topic heading. Can buy both for the price of a Camaro.

Just buy both.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

If you want an honest opinion you can PM me- I have had both. GM repurchased my Cruze LT auto and I got a Dart Limted 2.0L auto a few weeks ago to replace it. 

BTW- the engine plant eliminated a shift to get ready to produce a third engine- the new 2.4 tigershark that will be used on the Dart GT and possibly the new Liberty replacement and 200.


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## Ramray (Aug 20, 2013)

Test drove both. I like the Dart better. The Focus ST (a C&D top 10) just barely beat it out in a recent C&D test. Once they put a good, strong power plant in it it will be a terrific car. As to the trash talk of Mopar reliability I see here, I have owned many Mopars and they are over all no better or worse than Fords or GMs my family has owned..our Pontiacs were far less reliable than the many Dodge cars we have had. I know 4 mechanics who all say Ford, GM and Chrysler are pretty reliable over all with each having the occasional lemon but the big 3 are still a half-step behind most imports. I think the Cruze needs a face-lift like what was done for the Implala.


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