# Has the VW Diesel Cheating Scandal effected you or your opinion of diesel cars?



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Not a CTD owner but it doesn't change my opinion of diesels in cars. It did drastically lower my opinion of VW however.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Not a previous VW owner... I had considered a TDI at one point but never followed through. I knew too many people with non-engine related issues with gasser VW's to be willing to take the chance (and the TDi's have the same issues). So in my case...really hasn't effected my opinion.

I believe the EPA and the Enviro-nazi movement with their excessive regulations fostered the enviroment that made cheating neccessary in some cases.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

boneheaddoctor said:


> Not a previous VW owner... I had considered a TDI at one point but never followed through. I knew too many people with non-engine related issues with gasser VW's to be willing to take the chance (and the TDi's have the same issues). So in my case...really hasn't effected my opinion.
> 
> I believe the EPA and the Enviro-nazi movement with their excessive regulations fostered the enviroment that made cheating neccessary in some cases.


The fact that GM managed to make it work without cheating basically means that VW chose to cut corners to reduce their costs. No cheating was necessary.


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

I feel as though the majority of the population who aren't really interested in cars, may associate "diesel" with negativity after hearing a short headline like VW's, but the people who heard about the scandal and actually care about cars, likely spent some time and looked into it. If they are like myself they likely concluded there is nothing wrong with diesel technology when it is used properly, the issue of cheating applies solely to VW vehicles and design. I would absolutely consider a diesel as long as it met my 3 requirements for a vehicle. (Must have a manual transmission, cruise control, and alloy wheels) I really hope we are offered more diesel options because honestly they just make more sense in terms of usable torque, and greater efficiency and longevity.

Note: I would not however, buy a VW diesel, or any VW really.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Volkswagen is slime. 

I've tried to like their product - but the people at VW always made doing business with them impossible.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

obermd said:


> The fact that GM managed to make it work without cheating basically means that VW chose to cut corners to reduce their costs. No cheating was necessary.


And at what cost? Bottom line is critical on non-luxury vehicles...pennies per unit are significant as they add up. And the cost isn't insignificant. The diesel in the Curze like most modern vehicles carries a HUGE price penalty because of the excessive emmission mandates imposed by people who openly admit they hate diesel vehicles and intend to take them off the road.

Same tactics of how do you boil a frog in an open pot of water? You start out cold and slowly raise the temperature....the frog gets used to it and doesn't jump out until it hits the critical temperature and dies and cooks. Right out of Saul Alinski's rules for radicals playbook. Eventually they will become so expensive nobody can afford to use them as a result...then end game.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Didn't change my opinion of Cruze diesel in any manner at all. I had admired VW diesel for over a decade and had a beetle TDI for a short period of time. I lost all faith in VW and I will never buy any VW car or even consider one. What they did in my opinion was deliberate and evil and company should be fined into submission and folks there responsible should be in prison. I will never forgive them for deceiving people, although I don't own a VW it affects everyone on the planet. I don't believe in lieing or cheating.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

boneheaddoctor said:


> And at what cost? Bottom line is critical on non-luxury vehicles...pennies per unit are significant as they add up. And the cost isn't insignificant.


This is the engineering/design/marketing tradeoff that has to be made for all consumer products. In the case of Diesels this may mean that the bottom tier of cars will never be diesel. This is OK - it's market forces at work. VW was trying to cheat reality by cutting corners on their emissions systems. Chevy didn't cut those corners on the Cruze CTD. Mercedes apparently hasn't cut those corners either.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

obermd said:


> This is the engineering/design/marketing tradeoff that has to be made for all consumer products. In the case of Diesels this may mean that the bottom tier of cars will never be diesel. This is OK - it's market forces at work. VW was trying to cheat reality by cutting corners on their emissions systems. Chevy didn't cut those corners on the Cruze CTD. Mercedes apparently hasn't cut those corners either.


While VW did compete directly with the Cruze.....Mercedes, or at least the ones sold in the USA, are a completely different class of vehicle. This is not the case everyplace however. Mercedes does make a lot of lower end stuff elsewhere...none of it importable to the USA until they reach 28 years of age when emissions and safety requirements are no longer required to be met.

I plan to import two of my Antique Motorcycles this year from Europe. Freight cost makes shipping two more logical due to weight density and the newest of the two is now exempt (have for a few years actually). And the Euro/ Dollar exchange is finally in favorable territory again.

Excessive complexity is also planned obsolescence. Many parts to keep them running will unlikely be available to keep them on the road too many years...unlike the far simpler older stuff.

I don't oppose reasonable emissions....I do oppose oppressive ones. My Civic is now emissions exempt...I could legally remove the cat...but I won't. I would gain nothing by doing it. And it has never once failed a once every 2 year test in its entire life. Despite having an engine Kalifornistan considers illegal. It passed the strict dynomometer based emissions tests since they were instituted a lot of years ago...some of the strictest in the country.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

boneheaddoctor said:


> And at what cost? Bottom line is critical on non-luxury vehicles...pennies per unit are significant as they add up. And the cost isn't insignificant. The diesel in the Curze like most modern vehicles carries a HUGE price penalty because of the excessive emmission mandates imposed by people who openly admit they hate diesel vehicles and intend to take them off the road.
> 
> Same tactics of how do you boil a frog in an open pot of water? You start out cold and slowly raise the temperature....the frog gets used to it and doesn't jump out until it hits the critical temperature and dies and cooks. Right out of Saul Alinski's rules for radicals playbook. Eventually they will become so expensive nobody can afford to use them as a result...then end game.


Pricing an equally equipped VW Jetta TDI with a Cruze Diesel and the Chevy is cheaper and has real leather available... GM managed to do it out of the gate in the US market with a modern Common Rail diesel engine. VW had YEARS of experience in the US market and chose to CHEAT to make more money!!! That's huge in my book...


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

obermd said:


> This is the engineering/design/marketing tradeoff that has to be made for all consumer products. In the case of Diesels this may mean that the bottom tier of cars will never be diesel. This is OK - it's market forces at work. VW was trying to cheat reality by cutting corners on their emissions systems. Chevy didn't cut those corners on the Cruze CTD. Mercedes apparently hasn't cut those corners either.


BMW seems to be doing it too...


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

My opinion of diesels remains the same (efficient and environmentally friendly), my opinion of VW has changed.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

I have always been fascinated with the idea of a diesel car, never acted on it until I bought the Cruze diesel after trying to buy a Volt. Obviously between those two choices I was focusing on fuel efficiency, environmental impact, and most important to me, an alternate advanced technology compared to the traditional gas ICE. I wanted a vehicle that was ahead of the curve, I feel that with all the choices today gas motors are on the verge of being obsolete. While I know diesel is not really an advanced technology, the emission systems certainly are, and thats what really fascinated me with the car, the fact that it was a clean diesel. I never held Volkswagen in a respectable regard, but my opinion of them has been negatively affected. My opinion of diesels has not, the technology exists to make them fun to drive while meeting the important emission standards. I love the Cruze, and wouldn't mind buying only diesels for now on, but I will probably end up in an electric or hydrogen car far down the road.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Chris Tobin said:


> Pricing an equally equipped VW Jetta TDI with a Cruze Diesel and the Chevy is cheaper and has real leather available... GM managed to do it out of the gate in the US market with a modern Common Rail diesel engine. VW had YEARS of experience in the US market and chose to CHEAT to make more money!!! That's huge in my book...


Must be a regional thing on pricing....when I looked...WITHOUT all the discounts I was eligible for...I didn't see much if any break on the Cruze in my area. I did get a great deal on mine..Between employee discounts and other incentives including an end of the year sale...I ended up getting $7,800 off list. I knew several ex-VW owners the the horror stories they told me of reliability issues kept it from serious consideration.

Plus I've been a GM guy since I was young. The deck was always stacked in GM's favor for me. 15 months into ownership...my only gripe was the lack of dynamic grid lines on the backup camera. Otherwise I love it. And my last three cars which I still own were Mercedes. Two of those are Diesel. That says a lot.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

It has not at all changed my opinion of diesels, but it has lowered my opinion of VW. I have test driven pretty much every variant of VW's 4 cylinder TDI cars since the 1996 Passat but never felt compelled to buy one. I was a big fan of VW Beetles (the original beetle with the engine in the back) and had a bunch of those through high school and into my 20's, but no other VW's were interesting to me. (With one exception. I bought a Touareg TDI and that was an electronics nightmare which I quickly unloaded. It was brand new too) 

Now, this scandal tells me they don't give one rip about the customers as long as they are selling the cars and they will lie and cheat their way to get what they want. Classic definition of a narcissist, only it's the whole company. They don't care who they hurt, as long as they are OK. 

In the meantime I will continue to buy diesel cars from other manufacturers.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

I lost faith in Chevy for freakin Germans having more brains to fool Obozos EPA. Id buy a VW if I didnt love America.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

magnusson said:


> I lost faith in Chevy for freakin Germans having more brains to fool Obozos EPA. Id buy a VW if I didnt love America.


I respectfully don't agree with your view or statement. Why would you loose faith in Chevy for VW cheating on lieing on emissions? Every car company makes mistakes GM included, VW cheated and lied and fooled the EPA in short term, the long term implications for VW will last a very long time and cost them many billions and just a lot of bad will for years to come.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Chris Tobin said:


> Pricing an equally equipped VW Jetta TDI with a Cruze Diesel and the Chevy is cheaper and has real leather available... GM managed to do it out of the gate in the US market with a modern Common Rail diesel engine. VW had YEARS of experience in the US market and chose to CHEAT to make more money!!! That's huge in my book...


100% agree with the pricing. My ctd was $27k. An equally optioned (some options aren't available) jetta was $7k more where I live.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

IndyDiesel said:


> I respectfully don't agree with your view or statement. Why would you loose faith in Chevy for VW cheating on lieing on emissions? Every car company makes mistakes GM included, VW cheated and lied and fooled the EPA in short term, the long term implications for VW will last a very long time and cost them many billions and just a lot of bad will for years to come.


Anyone else here remember the stunt Daihatsu pulled that got them banned from the US market.

VW wasn't the first to try to game the system and get caught....probably won't be the last either.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boneheaddoctor said:


> Anyone else here remember the stunt Daihatsu pulled that got them banned from the US market.
> 
> VW wasn't the first to try to game the system and get caught....probably won't be the last either.


Agree with you they won't be the last.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boneheaddoctor said:


> Anyone else here remember the stunt Daihatsu pulled that got them banned from the US market.
> 
> VW wasn't the first to try to game the system and get caught....probably won't be the last either.


I tried googling this and only found where an ad was banned. What happened?

Daihatsu 'One day all cars will be this green' ad banned | Brand Republic


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ok here is my two cents. In light of the Vw scandal my impression of VW have not really dropped or gotten worse. Why you may ask? because i think Vw is the BIGGEST POS VEHICLE THIS COUNTRY IMPORTS. I own a 99 passat and have had a 87 vw. they both are cheap cheap cheap making Nissan look like luxury. 

They cut corners more so then any manufacturer i have wrenched on. my 99 just broke the dip stick tube, it was made of plastic and stuck in the middle of the intake runners. when the plastic gets brittle it broke and dropped on the inside of my oil pan. huge nightmare to get it fixed. my 85 bmw 318 had a sunroof that never leaked and my 99 Vw leaks like a beaver dam. i could go on for a lot longer but i wont for rambling sake. when at the dealer as others have mentioned they make it hard to work with them. when wrenching they like using proprietary tools that you have to buy to do simple things. Vw is soo cheap and only in it for the $, they don't care after 5 years what happens to your car nor will they last as long without breaking.... they put more plastic into there car then glock does in there pistols. Heck the connectors in the car are literally falling apart so i cant remove them and reconnect.

Just because one company selfishly cut corners (go figure vw doing that) does not mean a different fuel feed motor should be scrapped. i like diesel and i like something that not everyone else drives. my CTd for the options was cheaper then a similar not exact equip VW. Ford, Dodge/fiat, GM, Bmw, Mercedes, honorable mention here _Mazda_( they are working on a American diesel but have not gotten the emissions right. they chose to refine it and be legal vs then launch while cheating and hope to get away with it) all got their diesel emissions right so Vw has absolutely no excuse at all because they chose to cut corners, they chose to put profits ahead of public health, they chose to LIE when getting caught.... And now folks Vw has chosen to pull out of the American diesel market permanently.

i could not be happier. Vw has now put a big black eye on its company and so much so it rather pull out then fix the issues and get back into diesel game. this shows me what they really are. i feel bad for vw owners stuck with a polluting car Thats oem not modified and now must suffer resale drop.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I don't think VW pulled out forever, just for 2016 model year. No matter, I won't be buying one.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Affected my opinion on Diesels? Absolutely not. We love our Diesel Cruze, and I'm planning on purchasing a Diesel Colorado in the near future. 

Affected my opinion on VW? Absolutely.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

diesel said:


> I don't think VW pulled out forever, just for 2016 model year. No matter, I won't be buying one.


i could have sworn i had a quoted conversation with the stepped up CEO saying audi plans on pulling the plug on diesel to focus on hybrids now. even if they do get back into the diesel game, the American population will now have the black mark on VW like GM did after its old attempt of diesel sedans


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

What a lot of North American's don't know is that the reason diesels are so popular in Europe is political. Europe put a bounty (tax) on Carbon emissions but not on Nitrogen Oxides. Granted, this was done before we knew that NOx is a key contributer to acid rain, which has been killing the remaining forests in Europe. It's far easier to reduce carbon emissions from a diesel, but at the cost of more NOx emissions. Now that Europe is starting to realize that NOx is just as bad as COx, I think we will see the end of the diesel dominance in Europe as well. In fact, Europe is in may ways a better environment for electric cars - far less distances to travel. This is why Audi has chosen to focus on electric and hybrid vehicles. VW also stated they will be taking the Audi technology and use it across the board once the costs come down.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

obermd said:


> What a lot of North American's don't know is that the reason diesels are so popular in Europe is political. Europe put a bounty (tax) on Carbon emissions but not on Nitrogen Oxides. Granted, this was done before we knew that NOx is a key contributer to acid rain, which has been killing the remaining forests in Europe. It's far easier to reduce carbon emissions from a diesel, but at the cost of more NOx emissions. Now that Europe is starting to realize that NOx is just as bad as COx, I think we will see the end of the diesel dominance in Europe as well. In fact, Europe is in may ways a better environment for electric cars - far less distances to travel. This is why Audi has chosen to focus on electric and hybrid vehicles. VW also stated they will be taking the Audi technology and use it across the board once the costs come down.


paris is one country i hear that is more or less killing off diesel. 

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/no...-too-why-the-world-now-seems-to-hate-diesels/


France - Paris to ban the most polluting diesel vehicles by July 2015 - France 24

London will follow Paris and ban diesel cars, campaigners warn - Telegraph


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

diesel said:


> I tried googling this and only found where an ad was banned. What happened?
> 
> Daihatsu 'One day all cars will be this green' ad banned | Brand Republic



They falsified crash test results to get approval to sell cars here in the USA and got away with it for a little while before they got caught. A relative lost a lot of money after paying for franchising rights and setting up a dealership only to have the government come in and yank everything out from him and others....


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boneheaddoctor said:


> They falsified crash test results to get approval to sell cars here in the USA and got away with it for a little while before they got caught. A relative lost a lot of money after paying for franchising rights and setting up a dealership only to have the government come in and yank everything out from him and others....


I can't seem to find anything online to back that up. Can you cite a source? The closest I found was an article in the NY times which said they pulled out because they were losing money. Not trying to pick on you or anything, but this is an interesting topic to me because I always wondered but never researched. They did mention something about needing to invest in future safety regulations, but there's nothing about falsified crash test results. I would think something like that would have been big news back in the day. 

COMPANY NEWS - Daihatsu Planning to Halt Imports to U.S. - NYTimes.com


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

boneheaddoctor said:


> Anyone else here remember the stunt Daihatsu pulled that got them banned from the US market.
> 
> VW wasn't the first to try to game the system and get caught....probably won't be the last either.


I remember Daiwoo getting its nipple caught in a ringer.......what happened to Daihatsu? (I don't even remember them marketing anything...please don't be a senile moment.

Rob


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

boneheaddoctor said:


> And at what cost? Bottom line is critical on non-luxury vehicles...pennies per unit are significant as they add up. And the cost isn't insignificant. The diesel in the Curze like most modern vehicles carries a HUGE price penalty because of the excessive emmission mandates imposed by people who openly admit they hate diesel vehicles and intend to take them off the road.
> 
> Same tactics of how do you boil a frog in an open pot of water? You start out cold and slowly raise the temperature....the frog gets used to it and doesn't jump out until it hits the critical temperature and dies and cooks. Right out of Saul Alinski's rules for radicals playbook. Eventually they will become so expensive nobody can afford to use them as a result...then end game.


It's only a matter of time until gasoline engines have DPF style emissions controls on them - do a little reading on modern direct injected gasoline engines. While more efficient than traditional port injection, they actually create more soot. Modern direct injected gasoline engines are actually creating more soot emissions than modern diesels equipped with soot traps.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Robby said:


> I remember Daiwoo getting its nipple caught in a ringer.......what happened to Daihatsu? (I don't even remember them marketing anything...please don't be a senile moment.
> 
> Rob



Crap......now you have me thinking.....which was it? Neither sell vehicles here now....but did. 


I need to ask that relative which it was.....


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

PanJet said:


> It's only a matter of time until gasoline engines have DPF style emissions controls on them - do a little reading on modern direct injected gasoline engines. While more efficient than traditional port injection, they actually create more soot. Modern direct injected gasoline engines are actually creating more soot emissions than modern diesels equipped with soot traps.


I have read an article someplace that "cleaner" engines are actually far more "dirty" than they used to be. Maybe it was the same place you did.


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