# mid ash vs low ash



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Low ash would technically be better for emissions purposes but mid ash is sufficient for GM's requirements. We have people using both, and the low ash analysis reports came back very favorably.


----------



## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

I personally (and am) would run the LOW ash. The mid may work just fine as far as oil is concerned, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the emissions system itself (more frequent regens, clogged DPF, etc.). Very expensive components to replace. Not worth the risk IMO. I wouldn't get too hung up on the Dexos 2 label. The oil just has to meet the ACEA C3 spec. Also, the manual calls for 5w30 NOT 40. At the end of the day it's your car and what you do with it is your choice. Just my $0.02.


----------



## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

Yea but the low ash doesn't meet that requirement. And while I have a warranty I don't issues with the dealers


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

plasticplant said:


> I personally (and am) would run the LOW ash. The mid may work just fine as far as oil is concerned, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the emissions system itself (more frequent regens, clogged DPF, etc.). Very expensive components to replace. Not worth the risk IMO. I wouldn't get too hung up on the Dexos 2 label. The oil just has to meet the ACEA C3 spec. Also, the manual calls for 5w30 NOT 40. At the end of the day it's your car and what you do with it is your choice. Just my $0.02.


the amsoil MID ASH is the one that is ACEA C3

where does it say the amsoil LOW ASH is ACEA C3?


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

You've made it clear you have no faith in this car and unjustified worry about your warranty keeps you up at night.

Just go buy something with the nice shiney green dexos2 label on the front and be done with it! 

Diesel can tell you where to get total quartz or just buy the GM dexos2......


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

The Total Quarts INEO 5W30 that I use is both low ash and Dexos2

http://204.92.52.209/pdf/egypte/lubrifiants/Ineo MC3 5w30.pdf


----------



## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

boraz said:


> the amsoil MID ASH is the one that is ACEA C3
> 
> where does it say the amsoil LOW ASH is ACEA C3?


I'm confused. I said I would (and do) run LOW ash oil, not that the amsoil was ACEA C3 spec. I personally run Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 and love it. No Dexos 2 label, but meets the ACEA C3 spec.


----------



## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

Plasticplant. Same here just need to do the research on what meets acea c3 I'm leaning towards amsoil if I can


----------



## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

Plasticplant. Same here  just need to do the research on what meets acea c3 I'm leaning towards amsoil if I can


----------



## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

I run the mobil1 ESP which stands for emission system protection. 5w30. Have 70000 on the car. Very happy with that oil.


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)




----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

AMSoil 5w30 low ash euro oil meets VW's 507 standard which is the same as dexos2, well actually it's much more strict. Rest easy.


----------



## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> AMSoil 5w30 low ash euro oil meets VW's 507 standard which is the same as dexos2, well actually it's much more strict. Rest easy.


If it was the same as dexos2 then why doesn't say it meets it or exceeds it?


----------



## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> If it was the same as dexos2 then why doesn't say it meets it or exceeds it?


AMSoil just doesn't want to pay the licensing fee to use the Dexos 2 brand name. I'm still a fan of going by what the owners manual says. As mentioned before, I use Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. It's not labeled Dexos 2, but it meets the ACEA C2, 3 spec which is stated in the manual. It's been a great oil so far and it's nice knowing that if a dealer try's to pull a fast one I'm covered (without all the headaches of going through the "prove it process" if anything should go wrong and the dealer says it's oil related).


----------



## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

thanks plastic as long as it says it meets what the manual says that all I need so the dealer cant "void" things


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> If it was the same as dexos2 then why doesn't say it meets it or exceeds it?


Because they have their mid-saps 5W-40 that meets it. 

The thing these cars require is a lightweight oil (relatively speaking) that has Low-Saps but at the same time have a very stout HTHS of 3.5 or higher. These are special oils and there's many oils without the fancy dexos2 label on the box that meet this. (ACEA C2, C3 spec). 

In Layman's terms the oil for these cars needs to be a lightweight oil that won't harm the complex emissions system but still stand up to the abuse of a turbo diesel engine places on the oil. In the past you just threw in a heavy duty diesel engine oil and called it a day but things have changed and technology has advanced. 

These low-saps oils attempt to have their cake and eat it too.


----------



## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

plasticplant said:


> AMSoil just doesn't want to pay the licensing fee to use the Dexos 2 brand name. I'm still a fan of going by what the owners manual says. As mentioned before, I use Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. It's not labeled Dexos 2, but it meets the ACEA C2, 3 spec which is stated in the manual. It's been a great oil so far and it's nice knowing that if a dealer try's to pull a fast one I'm covered (without all the headaches of going through the "prove it process" if anything should go wrong and the dealer says it's oil related).


I understand them not paying the licensing fee, but like the 5w-40 European oil, it list dexos 2, so if the 5w-30 European oil also meets dexos 2 then it should be listed on the bottle as well, but it isn't. So there must be one piece of the additive package that keeps it from being dexos2. At least that is how I'm seeing it.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

What is ash?


----------



## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> I understand them not paying the licensing fee, but like the 5w-40 European oil, it list dexos 2, so if the 5w-30 European oil also meets dexos 2 then it should be listed on the bottle as well, but it isn't. So there must be one piece of the additive package that keeps it from being dexos2. At least that is how I'm seeing it.


I guess what I was trying to convey was that the Dexos 2 label means nothing (to me). When I purchase an oil, I look for the ACEA C2, C3 spec. AMSoil's 5W30 does not meet that spec (from what I see) so I won't use it. There could be a million reasons why this oil is not Dexos 2 approved, but that's anyones guess. I guess use what YOU feel comfortable with.


----------



## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> What is ash?


% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> % sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine.


Not quite. Oil doesn't burn inside a crank case or valvetrain, so this content will not form sludge or deposits. Sludge and deposits are formed by oxidation, which synthetic oils are very, very resistant to. The ash content is relevant for emissions control equipment when the oil burns through the PCV system, from oil vaporization, or from what the piston rings don't scrape off the cylinder walls.


----------



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks guys


----------



## katyite (Apr 25, 2015)

I know there will be a million opinions, but, how many miles between oil changes on average?


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

katyite said:


> I know there will be a million opinions, but, how many miles between oil changes on average?


We've had members to past 15,000 miles, but I'd recommend sticking to OEM drain intervals unless you get oil analysis done.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

katyite said:


> I know there will be a million opinions, but, how many miles between oil changes on average?


I used oil analysis to determine that based on my driving habits, 15K miles was optimal. YMMV


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I do a ton of city driving and my last UOA at 5,800mi showed that it wasn't unreasonable to be changed at that time due to fuel contamination. Could I have gone the full factory 7,500mi? Yes but it probably was a good idea to change when I did. I just changed it again around 6k after a rough winter and plenty of <10mi trips in the cold. I was going to let it go the full 7,500 but was getting my Harley ready for the year and it was a nice day which I had the time so I just got it done so I'm good for the summer too. 

If you don't frequently short trip the oil I don't think 10k intervals are unreasonable at all. VW TDI's do these all day long with ease on the same oils and is their recommended interval but they only allow up to 5% Bio-diesel. In states that only have 20% as an option, they are telling owners to simply monitor oil levels and change sooner.

It seems that GM really thought the 7,500mi interval through to cover all types of driving/weather with potentially up to 20% bio-diesel. Worst case scenarios, the oil is TOAST when the OLM hits 0%.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I do a ton of city driving and my last UOA at 5,800mi showed that it wasn't unreasonable to be changed at that time due to fuel contamination. Could I have gone the full factory 7,500mi? Yes but it probably was a good idea to change when I did. I just changed it again around 6k after a rough winter and plenty of <10mi trips in the cold. I was going to let it go the full 7,500 but was getting my Harley ready for the year and it was a nice day which I had the time so I just got it done so I'm good for the summer too.
> 
> If you don't frequently short trip the oil I don't think 10k intervals are unreasonable at all. VW TDI's do these all day long with ease on the same oils and is their recommended interval but they only allow up to 5% Bio-diesel. In states that only have 20% as an option, they are telling owners to simply monitor oil levels and change sooner.
> 
> It seems that GM really thought the 7,500mi interval through to cover all types of driving/weather with potentially up to 20% bio-diesel. Worst case scenarios, the oil is TOAST when the OLM hits 0%.


Was your fuel contamination obvious to the point that you saw the oil rise on the dipstick with miles?


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> Was your fuel contamination obvious to the point that you saw the oil rise on the dipstick with miles?


I did not notice a rise in oil or a scent of diesel in the oil. Im not concerned in the least as even many DI gassers experience similar things in my type of driving over the interval so it's "normal"


----------

