# Sticky  Oil Testing Anayslis for Diesels



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

This thread is for posting and discussing diesel oil analysis reports. If you want to get your oil analyzed in the USA, I strongly recommend using Oil Analyzers Inc (a private label for Polaris Labs), as they will accurately test fuel dilution, oxidation, nitration, include TBN free of charge, and will also include a prepaid return shipping label with the price of the kit. Link: Oil Analyzers Inc Test Kit.

We'll kick off this thread with an oil testing analysis I found of virgin Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP, courtesy of tdiforums.com. 

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=303266










Elsewhere, I discovered the NOACK volatility of this oil is 5.6%, which makes it a true synthetic oil. 

Compared to gasoline, the calcium levels are incredibly low as is the TBN. I have observed the lower TBN as a common difference between Diesel and Gasoline oils. Otherwise, the Boron and Moly numbers look good. This oil certainly looks a lot better than its gasoline engine counterpart! If it wasn't for the low TBN, I'd actually recommend it for our gasoline engines.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Wahoo!


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I guess all the low saps have a low tbn, with ulsd it creates a much less tbn destroying acidic environment then it used to.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Can someone explain to me exactly what TBN is and what the numbers mean?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Andrei, please feel free to also post in this thread the two dexos2 samples I had tested.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> Can someone explain to me exactly what TBN is and what the numbers mean?


TBN is directly correlated to Calcium and Magnesium content as tested in oils. Calcium Sulfonate/Phenate is a detergent and Magnesium Sulfonate is a dispersant. While I can get into more details, I do not particularly like seeing Magnesium in oils and generally prefer high Calcium numbers. Get the nerdy explanation here: http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf . Thus far, I have only seen Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge/Syntec use it in gasoline engine "synthetics." Rotella T-6 5W-40 contains it in significant quantities, but that has a few special characteristics I'll get into later. I've noticed that oils containing a combination of Magnesium and Calcium have a fairly high TBN. 

TBN is an acronym for Total Base Number. It represents the oil's total ability to neutralize acids. TBN reduces over the life cycle of the oil, but it is not a linear reduction. Its rate of depletion decreases exponentially as mileage increases. Magnesium-based detergents cause a more linear and slower rate of TBN depletion, but at the expense of effectiveness. 

The byproducts of the combustion chamber introduce acidity into the oil, and the TBN tells you how much acidity-neutralizing ability the oil has left. TAN is an acronym for total acidity number, which tests the acidity level of the oil. Oil with a TBN of 1 or less is considered effectively depleted, which causes the oil's acidity to rise and begins to cause corrosion of metals and bearings. The higher the starting TBN, the longer you can expect to go on that change of oil. 

A TBN of 6-10 appears to be common for Diesel oils. A TBN of 8-11.5 appears to be common for Gasoline oils, although there are some exceptions such as AMSOIL's Signature Series oil that is rated at 12.6 and tests at 12.8.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Here are two oil testing analysis reports that Tomko provided me with. The first is the factory DEXOS2 oil after 11,737km (7,293 miles). 









The second is Total Quartz Ineo MC3 505.01 5W-30 DEXOS2 oil. My only notable comments were the low TBN, but complete lack of Moly and Boron. I am now noticing slightly lower levels of Zinc and Phosphorous. 









Compare, for example, to Rotella T6 5W-40:
Shell Rotella T6 5w40 VOA | Virgin Oil Analysis - PCMO/HDEO | Bob Is The Oil Guy


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> If it wasn't for the low TBN, I'd actually recommend it for our gasoline engines.


That is kinda low.
After 12 months and 4,600 miles my Rotella T 15w-40, non-synthetic still had a TBN of 7+.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Diesel Dan said:


> That is kinda low.
> After 12 months and 4,600 miles my Rotella T 15w-40, non-synthetic still had a TBN of 7+.


We CTD owners had better get used to it, all low-saps oils have lower TBN's. Simply put, in today's passenger diesels, with today's fuel, an ultra high TBN isn't needed for protection of reasonable intervals (10k)


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> We CTD owners


Now that is gonna take some getting used to.
In my world CTD has traditionally stood for Cummins Turbo Diesel.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> TBN is directly correlated to Calcium and Magnesium content as tested in oils. Calcium Sulfonate/Phenate is a detergent and Magnesium Sulfonate is a dispersant. While I can get into more details, I do not particularly like seeing Magnesium in oils and generally prefer high Calcium numbers. Get the nerdy explanation here: http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf . Thus far, I have only seen Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge/Syntec use it in gasoline engine "synthetics." Rotella T-6 5W-40 contains it in significant quantities, but that has a few special characteristics I'll get into later. I've noticed that oils containing a combination of Magnesium and Calcium have a fairly high TBN.
> 
> TBN is an acronym for Total Base Number. It represents the oil's total ability to neutralize acids. TBN reduces over the life cycle of the oil, but it is not a linear reduction. Its rate of depletion decreases exponentially as mileage increases. Magnesium-based detergents cause a more linear and slower rate of TBN depletion, but at the expense of effectiveness.
> 
> ...


Excellent explanation! Thank you!


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Get the nerdy explanation here: http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf .


What's up with the grammar and punctuation in that report?
Very hard to read.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Diesel Dan said:


> What's up with the grammar and punctuation in that report?
> Very hard to read.


Most likely a file conversion/formatting issue, maybe even an Acrobat version issue. I had the same problem but was able to read it.


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## chevycruzeassembler (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks for the blackstone reports. Been following this and got 4800 on original oil. Been waiting to hear back on the oils before I do my first. So gotta say, im good at assembling but I realized its not the reports I need to see. Its the comments on what is everyones choice. Hahaha. . Also recommendation s for the oil filter seen Mann is decent? I dont wanna get off topic but blackstone says these should be fine with your car. New to all the disel stuff and will research alot more as needed, is there any reason to doubt blackstone regarding the test results and there recommendation of the mobil 1


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## chevycruzeassembler (Aug 20, 2013)

Sorry Let me clarify one thing. I was referencing the mobil 1 recommendation where they state this oil should serve your engine well so not a recommendation of the oil.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

chevycruzeassembler said:


> Thanks for the blackstone reports. Been following this and got 4800 on original oil. Been waiting to hear back on the oils before I do my first. So gotta say, im good at assembling but I realized its not the reports I need to see. Its the comments on what is everyones choice. Hahaha. . Also recommendation s for the oil filter seen Mann is decent? I dont wanna get off topic but blackstone says these should be fine with your car. New to all the disel stuff and will research alot more as needed, is there any reason to doubt blackstone regarding the test results and there recommendation of the mobil 1





chevycruzeassembler said:


> Sorry Let me clarify one thing. I was referencing the mobil 1 recommendation where they state this oil should serve your engine well so not a recommendation of the oil.


I honestly have never seen Blackstone Labs take a virgin oil sample and say that the oil will not serve the customer well. Most oils will start out as decent, and they don't seem to care much whether its dino oil or synthetic. The purpose of the virgin oil analysis is to get a baseline to compare your used oil analysis to. 

Right now, Mobil 1 ESP is looking pretty good in the 5W-30 weight of dexos2 compatible oils. 

MANN filters are good quality. I have yet to hear anything bad about them.


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## chevycruzeassembler (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks extreme. Checkin out forum for other threads about oils and ill let get ahold of you if I go with amsoil.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

A friend of mine with a Cruze Diesel got one done after high miles:


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Andrei, if you could, your thoughts on this would help us to better understand what we're reading. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> A friend of mine with a Cruze Diesel got one done after high miles:
> View attachment 60409


The wear metals are perfectly normal for an oil with that kind of mileage. Nothing to be worried about there. The use of an oil with Moly and/or Boron (anti-wear and extreme pressure additives) would probably help reduce the wear a but it's still not concerning. TBN looks pretty good for the mileage. I'd say that oil is easily capable of 15,000 miles. I'd recommend changing the filter halfway however, as those are not capable of such extended intervals.

Bear in mind that OEM oil life monitor intervals are also based on the life expectancy of the oil filter. With Diesel engines that contaminate the oil with soot, this is a particularly important thing to pay attention to. Bypass filtration systems should be of particular interest to Diesel owners due to their soot control effectiveness.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Excellent report, if you can get that oil cheap keep running it. If it's not cheap there may be other "better" alternatives for even more exceptional results. It looks like these motors use less iron the the vw tdis.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Excellent report, if you can get that oil cheap keep running it. If it's not cheap there may be other "better" alternatives for even more exceptional results. It looks like these motors use less iron the the vw tdis.


Cheap is the key. Mobil 1 ESP looks better from the VOA I saw.

Sent from mobile.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Cheap is the key. Mobil 1 ESP looks better from the VOA I saw.
> 
> Sent from mobile.


Oh yeah definitely agree. I'm curious to see how this motul I'm running tests out when I drain.

Another oil on my radar to try that actually gives some of the best results in VW TDI's is Pennzoil Ultra Euro L 5W40. 

I guess my current oil radar consists of

Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 or 5W40
AMSoil European Car 5W30 or 5W40
Pennzoil Ultra Euro L 5W40


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

It seems like a decent enough oil. It held up rather well over the miles, especially considering the low TBN it starts with. (6.2 IIRC)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> It seems like a decent enough oil. It held up rather well over the miles, especially considering the low TBN it starts with. (6.2 IIRC)


Remember, our conceptions of what high and low TBN are flies out the window with ULSD. Not the same ball game as it is with gasoline engines.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Remember, our conceptions of what high and low TBN are flies out the window with ULSD. Not the same ball game as it is with gasoline engines.


Does the TBN still have any meaningful value with this scenario?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> Does the TBN still have any meaningful value with this scenario?


Yes and no. Yes in the fact that it's imperative to have, no in the fact that any low-saps oil is going to have a low tbn. It's a nature of the oil and you can get away with the lack of sulfur introduced into the crankcase with diesel of the past. Is it possible this could change as oil technology continues to advance? Absolutely. 

Hey Xtreme, What's your thoughts about non-metallic additives in today's cutting edge oils? There's been oils that perform great based on UOA but on pretty boring/basic looking on a VOA because they're only capable of showing metallic additives. At least some of the gurus over at bobistheoilguy claim people need to start getting used to non-metallic additives in oils.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Yes and no. Yes in the fact that it's imperative to have, no in the fact that any low-saps oil is going to have a low tbn. It's a nature of the oil and you can get away with the lack of sulfur introduced into the crankcase with diesel of the past. Is it possible this could change as oil technology continues to advance? Absolutely.
> 
> Hey Xtreme, What's your thoughts about non-metallic additives in today's cutting edge oils? There's been oils that perform great based on UOA but on pretty boring/basic looking on a VOA because they're only capable of showing metallic additives. At least some of the gurus over at bobistheoilguy claim people need to start getting used to non-metallic additives in oils.


To be honest, I haven't looked into it a whole lot yet so I'm not entirely sure. I suspect that at the end of the day, what matters most is how well your oil and engine are doing on your drain intervals. 

Always be cautious about TBN when using Mg-based detergents such as what we find in some gasoline engine oils as the TBN "retention" will be better but it will drop more linearly and the TAN will end up higher.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> To be honest, I haven't looked into it a whole lot yet so I'm not entirely sure. I suspect that at the end of the day, what matters most is how well your oil and engine are doing on your drain intervals.
> 
> Always be cautious about TBN when using Mg-based detergents such as what we find in some gasoline engine oils as the TBN "retention" will be better but it will drop more linearly and the TAN will end up higher.


Yeah I wasn't sure either, we'll have to see


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## hulkss (Jan 30, 2014)

I changed my oil right around 500 miles to a German blended synthetic oil called Top Tec 4600 by Liqui Moly. I then took this sample at 3000 miles. I wanted to see if there was any fuel dilution of the oil with two months of very cold winter starts in Minnesota and 5% bio diesel. GM oil life monitor was at 66%. The oil is still in the car and I'll take a sample when I drain it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hulkss said:


> I changed my oil right around 500 miles to a German blended synthetic oil called Top Tec 4600 by Liqui Moly. I then took this sample at 3000 miles. I wanted to see if there was any fuel dilution of the oil with two months of very cold winter starts in Minnesota and 5% bio diesel. GM oil life monitor was at 66%. The oil is still in the car and I'll take a sample when I drain it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 71385
> View attachment 71377


I'd give that oil a lot more than just another 2000 miles of use.


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## hulkss (Jan 30, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'd give that oil a lot more than just another 2000 miles of use.


Yes, I plan to run it to 20% on the oil life monitor.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Drained my motul x-clean 5w40 today and forgot to grab a sample! Damnit! Had the blackstone container under the car with me and let it all drain out forgetting it was there. Refilled with Mobile 1 ESP formula M 5w40


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Drained my motul x-clean 5w40 today and forgot to grab a sample! Damnit! Had the blackstone container under the car with me and let it all drain out forgetting it was there. Refilled with Mobile 1 ESP formula M 5w40


Since mine thickened up a bit as the miles wore on, I wonder how the 5W40 will do on the viscosity over time.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> Since mine thickened up a bit as the miles wore on, I wonder how the 5W40 will do on the viscosity over time.


One thing I forgot to mention...did you replace the filter during that drain interval?

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> One thing I forgot to mention...did you replace the filter during that drain interval?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


No, but I thought about what you said previously on the stock filter. It does appear as if it's better than we thought based on Blackstone's comment about good filtration. Do you agree?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> No, but I thought about what you said previously on the stock filter. It does appear as if it's better than we thought based on Blackstone's comment about good filtration. Do you agree?


I didn't cut it open but it actually looks and feels like a good filter. Not a walmart fram by any means!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> No, but I thought about what you said previously on the stock filter. It does appear as if it's better than we thought based on Blackstone's comment about good filtration. Do you agree?


Despite Blackstone's comments, which are very often misleading (re: saying there's nothing wrong with an oil that shears one viscosity range down), your viscosity indicates that filtration could be improved upon. I personally do not trust the filters on the market with the exception of AMSOIL EA15k and EAO (rated for 15k and 25k miles respectively) to go more than 10k miles. 

I question the filter's capacity knowing the soot levels that diesel engines tend to accumulate in the oil.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

question im about to send out a sample this weekend. I am worried that the dealer might be using dexos instead of dexos 2 can blackstone id if this is not dexos 2 along with the analysis?? or will I be able to see it from the #s


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

mr overkill said:


> question im about to send out a sample this weekend. I am worried that the dealer might be using dexos instead of dexos 2 can blackstone id if this is not dexos 2 along with the analysis?? or will I be able to see it from the #s


We can compare the additive levels of both to the virgin oil analysis to make that distinction. 

I wouldn't be using Blackstone though. They charge extra for TBN and don't even test for oxidation. Oil Analyzers Inc does both for free and includes return shipping. 

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...it-postage-pre-paid/?code=KIT01-EA&zo=5224266


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

xtreme any better pricing if i get it through you 
?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Ok guys as promised I took an oil sample last change recently and sent it off to AMSoil's Oil Analyzers...The price and prepaid postage including TBN made more sense to me. Also I've heard Blackstone doesn't truly test properly for fuel dilution which is important to know in these engines.

As you can see I have a decent amount of fuel dilution...TBN is still fine despite their alert. Especially since it only started a 5.something All in all I think the oil is holding up pretty well for the amount of the fuel dilution. Viscosity is still correct. Wear metals look good for an engine still breaking in at 16k...

I refilled her back up with AMSoil European Car Low-Saps 5W-30 and will take another sample next time, possibly in the same interval to see what fuel dilution looks like that time. FYI, all PA diesel I fill up with is 2%bio content by law. 

I'd be kinda curious what kind of fuel dilution others might show if they get a lab to test besides blackstone...I don't excessively idle and have a 30 mile round trip to work each day. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByizTF3fJPLJaDg1ZTFQdG82TlU/view?usp=sharing


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Also I've heard Blackstone doesn't truly test properly for fuel dilution which is important to know in these engines.


I'm not a fan of blackstone labs.... Sent in an oil sample on a previous car of mine that had the oil pan damaged at highway speeds, pan was replaced and car drove 50 miles before the oil was changed & sample was taken. When draining the oil large chunks of aluminium came out in the drain oil as well as visible shiny metal in the oil itself. Let them know it was a short mileage sample & the test was being done to ensure no further damage had happened(insurance would have paid for an engine then). 

Test came back OK and not high in any wear metals. Really? Seeing this oil I can't fathom how it didn't test high, we even threw in a couple pieces of the aluminium that was in the drain oil. Always thought about sending in a ringer that is purposely contaminated to see what their results would say....


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

spacedout said:


> I'm not a fan of blackstone labs.... Sent in an oil sample on a previous car of mine that had the oil pan damaged at highway speeds, pan was replaced and car drove 50 miles before the oil was changed & sample was taken. When draining the oil large chunks of aluminium came out in the drain oil as well as visible shiny metal in the oil itself. Let them know it was a short mileage sample & the test was being done to ensure no further damage had happened(insurance would have paid for an engine then).
> 
> Test came back OK and not high in any wear metals. Really? Seeing this oil I can't fathom how it didn't test high, we even threw in a couple pieces of the aluminium that was in the drain oil. Always thought about sending in a ringer that is purposely contaminated to see what their results would say....


Wow! I will say I used them on my wife's civic once and the air filter was caked due to my negligence for the whole OCI and the sample came back with high silicon and poor wear figures most likely due to the high silicon. 

I would love to see some other diesel owners to try someone other then blackstone and see if there's anything to this fuel dilution which is a thing of this era of diesels or if it's just me.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Ok guys as promised I took an oil sample last change recently and sent it off to AMSoil's Oil Analyzers...The price and prepaid postage including TBN made more sense to me. Also I've heard Blackstone doesn't truly test properly for fuel dilution which is important to know in these engines.
> 
> As you can see I have a decent amount of fuel dilution...TBN is still fine despite their alert. Especially since it only started a 5.something All in all I think the oil is holding up pretty well for the amount of the fuel dilution. Viscosity is still correct. Wear metals look good for an engine still breaking in at 16k...
> 
> ...


Looks like your iron is a little high like mine was. I just sent another sample into Blackstone. I thought about using Amsoil, but I like having the whole history with the Blackstone report.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> Looks like your iron is a little high like mine was. I just sent another sample into Blackstone. I thought about using Amsoil, but I like having the whole history with the Blackstone report.


Hey Diesel,

Yeah, I'm not worried. It was nice to see low aluminum and copper numbers which means the oil is doing what it's supposed to IMO. I'd bet iron really drops after 50k on these...I'll probably sample again around 6k like this one to see what the fuel dilution looks like again. I know 50ppm is completely normal for VW TDI's even after extensive break in.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> Looks like your iron is a little high like mine was. I just sent another sample into Blackstone. I thought about using Amsoil, but I like having the whole history with the Blackstone report.


Nice thing about OAI is that they include TBN and return shipping for free, and they test for oxidation, which Blackstone doesn't. It is particularly important with extended drains and turbocharged vehicles. 



KpaxFAQ said:


> Ok guys as promised I took an oil sample last change recently and sent it off to AMSoil's Oil Analyzers...The price and prepaid postage including TBN made more sense to me. Also I've heard Blackstone doesn't truly test properly for fuel dilution which is important to know in these engines.
> 
> As you can see I have a decent amount of fuel dilution...TBN is still fine despite their alert. Especially since it only started a 5.something All in all I think the oil is holding up pretty well for the amount of the fuel dilution. Viscosity is still correct. Wear metals look good for an engine still breaking in at 16k...
> 
> ...


Viscosity is one decimal point away from being a 30 weight oil. That said, it really isn't bad for as high of a fuel dilution as you had. I would consider that engine to be still wearing in, so don't worry too much about the copper and iron levels. I would have been comfortable taking that oil to 8000-9000 miles. 

OAI is pretty conservative when it comes to analysis reports. They will flag something if it looks even slightly out of spec for that vehicle or oil. What you need to remember is that anything that isn't critical should be observed as a trend, and TBN should be taken with a grain of salt. The reason for this is that detergent formulations will vary wildly from one oil to another. For example, if you compare Mobil 1 to AMSOIL SS in gasoline engines, the TBN of Mobil 1 will stay much higher than AMSOIL SS. AMSOIL's proprietary detergent formulation does that. However, it will hover above condemnation levels for the remainder of the OCI. I have one analysis that had TBN at 3.3x at 6,000 miles, and when a second analysis was taken at 13,700 miles, TBN had dropped to only 3.0x. Point is, if it isn't critical, don't worry too much about it and just observe the trend. TBN is truly low when it nears 1.0 and soft metal wear levels start to increase. 

If your fuel dilution continues, switch to AMSOIL 5W-40 European Mid-Saps. I generally don't mind going one SAE viscosity range higher than OE, but I don't like seeing the spec drop below OE.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I agree with you Xtreme, which is why I'm going to take another sample at roughly the same interval and determine if this fuel dilution is a trend or isolated occurrence. I'd really like to see someone else send a sample off to AMSoil to see if they actually in fact have fuel dilution similar to mine.

I'm familiar with how TBN works as far as it may start high, drop fast and remain steady for thousands of miles then drop. It's not a linear progression to 0.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Ok guys as promised I took an oil sample last change recently and sent it off to AMSoil's Oil Analyzers...The price and prepaid postage including TBN made more sense to me. Also I've heard Blackstone doesn't truly test properly for fuel dilution which is important to know in these engines.
> 
> As you can see I have a decent amount of fuel dilution...TBN is still fine despite their alert. Especially since it only started a 5.something All in all I think the oil is holding up pretty well for the amount of the fuel dilution. Viscosity is still correct. Wear metals look good for an engine still breaking in at 16k...
> 
> ...


I just looked at my last report and my fuel dilution was under 0.5% but yours was 4.2%. That seems like a huge difference to me unless Blackstone measures it differently. 

Also on my 75K miles report, I had 57 PPM iron. My iron has been increasing over the life of the vehicle, but I also have been increasing the miles on the oil (17.5K last interval).

I should be getting my newest results in this week sometime.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Everything I've gathered is that the method that Blackstone measures for fuel dilution is a joke, I'm not a lab-rat so I cannot comfirm or deny that, which is why I'd be interested to see another report on this vehicle from AMSoil/polaris labs. 

57ppm iron on a ridiculous interval like that is awesome! I always read over on bobistheoilguy stuff about how pathetic low-saps oils are and I'll agree they look pretty meek on paper but guys like you are proving they are more then tough enough for the intended application...

I service my parents vehicles and I was finally able to convince the old man to let me switch it over to SS AMSoil and do once a year oil changes. They are 15k or less/year moderate to severe service. It's funny how hard that 3k/change mentality is to break! I had him convinced to go 5k for the past year but that was about the limit lol


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Here's my latest. I cut back on the miles to see if there was a corresponding drop in everything and there was. I think I will bump back up to about 15000 miles. I think that's a good interval.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

My dealership put an oil change sticker on my window for 5k km. I'm definitely not going to listen to their advice considering my olm says that's only about 50% and what I'm seeing from your tests


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Ok guys as promised I took an oil sample last change recently and sent it off to AMSoil's Oil Analyzers...The price and prepaid postage including TBN made more sense to me. Also I've heard Blackstone doesn't truly test properly for fuel dilution which is important to know in these engines.
> 
> As you can see I have a decent amount of fuel dilution...TBN is still fine despite their alert. Especially since it only started a 5.something All in all I think the oil is holding up pretty well for the amount of the fuel dilution. Viscosity is still correct. Wear metals look good for an engine still breaking in at 16k...
> 
> ...


try the 5w40 mid saps. meets dexos2


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

oilburner said:


> try the 5w40 mid saps. meets dexos2


Yeah I thought about it but went with the low saps...If the numbers are just as good, I'll take the lower saps putting a slightly lower ash load into the dpf. If I have some fuel in it and it thins out more then I like to see I'll jump back up to their 5W-40. Mobile 1 ESP is low saps for both 5-30 and 5-40 grades.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Here's something that will help you guys understand the SAPS content of the oil.

http://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/auto-and-light-truck/articles/european-motor-oils-and-saps-content/


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Also I've heard Blackstone doesn't truly test properly for fuel dilution which is important to know in these engines.


I was helping a guy out with his WRX oil analysis. He posted his analysis for discussion on a subaru forum since it came back with high fuel dilution, and a member replied with the following:



> Blackstone estimates the fuel reading by looking at your flashpoint result. In all likelihood the fuel dilution result in a BS uoa is actually higher than estimated. OAI uses a more accurate Gas Chromatography and actually tests for fuel.


Not only do they not properly test for fuel dilution, they don't test for fuel dilution AT ALL. They only estimate it, although his thought that Blackstone will estimate higher than what is present is false. Fuel dilution would have to be severe in order for Blackstone to flag it. 

Yet another mark against Blackstone for oil analysis purposes. 

Use Oil Analyzers Inc or find another company that actually tests your oil, not estimates it to save costs.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Here's my latest on the Amsoil 5W30 low SAPS


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> Here's my latest on the Amsoil 5W30 low SAPS
> 
> View attachment 133714


The flash point was higher than the other samples with the exception of one. That means the base oil held up well and the there wasn't any significant fuel dilution. 

The AMSOIL sample did the best as far as Iron wear out of all of the other reports on a per-mile basis. Here's the number of miles driven by each of the oils, per 1ppm of iron wear, from newest to oldest. I would imagine that your engine is done breaking in by now. 

410
298
307
382
372

Boron seemed to have held up as well, since that's a depleting additive. It's rather interesting to see better wear metals with significantly reduced ZDDP levels. What are the oils used for the previous 4 samples?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Previous 4 samples was Total Quartz INEO MC3. I like the Amsoil results. I want to switch back, but I still have 5 quarts of Total left.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> Previous 4 samples was Total Quartz INEO MC3. I like the Amsoil results. I want to switch back, but I still have 5 quarts of Total left.


Shucks, I would have been curious to see what the trending wear levels would look like. You can expect ~10% of the old oil to contaminate the new, so it takes a couple of analysis reports to see more consistent results. 

Either way, thanks for taking the time to report.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Sucks, I would have been curious to see what the trending wear levels would look like. You can expect ~10% of the old oil to contaminate the new, so it takes a couple of analysis reports to see more consistent results.
> 
> Either way, thanks for taking the time to report.


Hard to say how long I will keep the car, but I woudl say at this point it's possible I will keep it long enough to run through this change and next change on Total, then back to Amsoil for a few runs.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for the report diesel, I'm loving the wear results with even lower DPF killing additives in the oil. Win-Win. Interesting there's no moly in the amsoil low-saps but there is in Mobil 1. Just like your total quartz results...you can't argue with a nice report. I'm going to get my oil tested at 5k after a hard winter of short tripping and elevated fuel levels in the last sample. It's alot of money but I'm temped to send a sample to both blackstone and polaris to see what blackstone says about fuel in the oil compared to polaris. I know blackstone can't accurately test for fuel but I'd like to prove it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Thanks for the report diesel, I'm loving the wear results with even lower DPF killing additives in the oil. Win-Win. Interesting there's no moly in the amsoil low-saps but there is in Mobil 1. Just like your total quartz results...you can't argue with a nice report. I'm going to get my oil tested at 5k after a hard winter of short tripping and elevated fuel levels in the last sample. It's alot of money but I'm temped to send a sample to both blackstone and polaris to see what blackstone says about fuel in the oil compared to polaris. I know blackstone can't accurately test for fuel but I'd like to prove it.


Don't bother if you're just looking to prove it. I had a buddy with a WRX do the same thing last month. The oil reeked of fuel and Blackstone didn't find any. OAI found 4.4%. I'll post those two reports when I get back home today.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Don't bother if you're just looking to prove it. I had a buddy with a WRX do the same thing last month. The oil reeked of fuel and Blackstone didn't find any. OAI found 4.4%. I'll post those two reports when I get back home today.


Well good to know! I won't do it! Sticking with OAI!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Well good to know! I won't do it! Sticking with OAI!


Oil samples were taken using AMSOIL's analysis extraction pump through the dipstick tube with the engine hot, both at the same time. 

Blackstone:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/hdefroy/NASIOC/January2015-Blackstone_zpsovp3dmfx.jpg

OAI: 
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/hdefroy/NASIOC/January2015-OAI_zps8hxt2bph.jpg

Despite the fuel dilution dropping the flash point of the oil, which is how Blackstone determines fuel dilution in the first place, Blackstone was oblivious to it. Again, he said it reeked of fuel when he was draining it. OAI (Polaris) showed 4.4% fuel dilution using gas chromatography.


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## GN870 (Mar 28, 2015)

Hello,

Here are three samples I had completed recently from the Cruze Diesel using Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. The first sample is new oil, and the second are samples taken mid-oil change interval (ish). 

I'm generally pleased with how this oil is doing. Clearly not going to be an oil for ultra long change intervals. The most recent sample was from the winter months with more idle time and shorter trips. Not too concerned about the fuel%. Also, the DPF had a regen the day before.








Let me know what you think and when i should change it. I'm planning to run the 5W40 weight for the summer.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

GN870 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Here are three samples I had completed recently from the Cruze Diesel using Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. The first sample is new oil, and the second are samples taken mid-oil change interval (ish).
> 
> ...


Unless I am missing something, the component miles and the interval miles don't add up on this report.

By the way, welcome to the forum!


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## GN870 (Mar 28, 2015)

diesel said:


> Unless I am missing something, the component miles and the interval miles don't add up on this report.
> 
> By the way, welcome to the forum!


For sure - They were sampled through the dipstick tube, before I changed the oil. The dates are just from when the analysis was run. I have not drained the oil yet from which the sample at 40706km was taken.
The sample at 30773km was taken in june, just never got to sending it out for analysis. Obviously changed it too soon. That was the first change using the M1 esp 5w30.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Latest sample report comes from a friend that is more active on the FB group. This is using AMSOIL 5W-40 Mid-Saps European Formula oil. 10,000 miles and 8 months on the oil, with a LOT of short trips (4-6 every day of not more than 3 miles each) and WOT acceleration at just about every traffic light. That is what 75% of the driving consisted of. The remaining 25% was highway driving.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Here is my oil analysis report on my 2nd oil change, it has 6,047 km on it, the report looks good so far. Next sample would be on Mobil Super xe dexos 2 and after 10,000 km.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pacolino said:


> Here is my oil analysis report on my 2nd oil change, it has 6,047 km on it, the report looks good so far. Next sample would be on Mobil Super xe dexos 2 and after 10,000 km.
> View attachment 182841


I like Blackstone's report format better because it a bit more verbose.


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## rescueswimmer (Mar 28, 2013)

Here is our Report about 72k on the Cruze Total Quartz INEO MC3 5W-30 Dexos2


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

rescueswimmer said:


> Here is our Report about 72k on the Cruze Total Quartz INEO MC3 5W-30 Dexos2
> View attachment 184321


Thickened up a little bit.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Here is my latest sample on my 2014 Cruze diesel running RLI 5w-30 HD Low ash oil. I took the sample out of the dipstick tube. Plenty of life left. Running AC/Delco oil filter.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I've honestly never heard of RLI and when you click on their "about us" even their website apparently has never heard of them.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Tomko said:


> I've honestly never heard of RLI and when you click on their "about us" even their website apparently has never heard of them.


Did you visit this site? The company is Renewable Lubricants.

http://renewablelube.com/ :: Home


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> Here is my latest sample on my 2014 Cruze diesel running RLI 5w-30 HD Low ash oil. I took the sample out of the dipstick tube. Plenty of life left. Running AC/Delco oil filter.


Notable fuel dilution. I'm glad they use gas chromatography to test. I wish Blackstone did too. I'm also glad they test TAN as well as TBN. 

Looks fine, as would be expected from a 5,500 mile test. 

By the high oxidation number and website description, looks like they're probably using some kind of synthetic oleo or vegetable esters. Intriguing.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

BlueTopaz said:


> Did you visit this site? The company is Renewable Lubricants.
> 
> http://renewablelube.com/ :: Home


I went to rli.com


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

RLI is on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Renewable-Lub...ld-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Renewable+Lubricants


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Here is my latest UOA on my Diesel Cruze. Love the TBN.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> Here is my latest UOA on my Diesel Cruze. Love the TBN.


Potassium is almost always antifreeze. What's going on there?

TBN is nice though. That comes with the territory of driving a diesel. TBN retention is awesome.


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## ssnscruzeeco2015 (Dec 29, 2014)

> Potassium is almost always antifreeze. What's going on there?


What are the other indications of very minor coolant contamination? I wonder if road salt ingestion is a significant contender.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

No issues with Potassium. If it was a leak then my wear numbers would be higher. Potassium hydroxide, potassium methylate and or sodium hydroxide are used as catalysts for bio diesel refining. Had filled up at Murphy's and it has up to 20% bio diesel in the fuel.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

BlueTopaz said:


> No issues with Potassium. If it was a leak then my wear numbers would be higher. Potassium hydroxide, potassium methylate and or sodium hydroxide are used as catalysts for bio diesel refining. Had filled up at Murphy's and it has up to 20% bio diesel in the fuel.


Good info Thank you.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

32,921 miles on this oil sample, 87,633 miles on the engine. Polaris Labs recommended an additional 7,000 miles before re-sampling. AMSOIL European Formula 5W-30.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> 32,921 miles on this oil sample, 87,633 miles on the engine. Polaris Labs recommended an additional 7,000 miles before re-sampling. AMSOIL European Formula 5W-30.


WOW!! What type of driving? Any oil added in-between?

Also, why the drop in oxidation between the first two tests?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> WOW!! What type of driving? Any oil added in-between?
> 
> Also, why the drop in oxidation between the first two tests?


First test was a bad tune. New oil started from test 2. Vehicle has an emissions delete and 90% highway driving. 

Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV using Tapatalk


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> 32,921 miles on this oil sample, 87,633 miles on the engine. Polaris Labs recommended an additional 7,000 miles before re-sampling. AMSOIL European Formula 5W-30.


That's really impressive!

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

What oil would you guys recommend for a deleted ctd? 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Aaron/VA said:


> What oil would you guys recommend for a deleted ctd?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


If you took all the emissions off I would go with this oil.

AMSOIL Series 3000 5W-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

XR The Iron numbers are amazing!! I would still want to know the acid numbers to be honest.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Cruz15 said:


> XR The Iron numbers are amazing!! I would still want to know the acid numbers to be honest.


It's directly inverse to the base number, so it's not necessary to test it on gasoline engine oils. 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Here is my latest UOA on my 2014 Cruze Diesel. This is the AMSOIL AEL at 10k miles the report before it is at 5k miles. Ran the same filter AC Delco. Sucks that Photobucket doesn't allow third party linking anymore. I have a ton of DYI threads on another forum that are now useless. No way am I paying $399 a year.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> Here is my latest UOA on my 2014 Cruze Diesel. This is the AMSOIL AEL at 10k miles the report before it is at 5k miles. Ran the same filter AC Delco. Sucks that Photobucket doesn't allow third party linking anymore. I have a ton of DYI threads on another forum that are now useless. No way am I paying $399 a year.
> View attachment 234866


Looks great to me. Wear metals have trended linearly with miles based on previous reports. You could have doubled that one.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Looks great to me. Wear metals have trended linearly with miles based on previous reports. You could have doubled that one.


How did you get your attached report to show up so big? I'm going to have to do that from now on thanks to PB's charging now.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Resize it to a web-friendly size, upload it directly to the forums using the attachment option, click "preview post." Once you do that, you'll be able to click on your image, which will allow you to copy the URL for it, and embed it using the [img format on the forum.


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## rescueswimmer (Mar 28, 2013)

Figured I'd have another analysis done. It had been about 50K miles since the last one. Here is the report. I just did the DPF delete so I may do another after 15k or 2 oil changes to see if the soot is less this time around.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

rescueswimmer said:


> Figured I'd have another analysis done. It had been about 50K miles since the last one. Here is the report. I just did the DPF delete so I may do another after 15k or 2 oil changes to see if the soot is less this time around.



If you plan on extending drains, you really ought to use Oil Analyzers Inc (Polaris Labs) as they'll measure oxidation, which Blackstone doesn't. Pretty sure this would cost the same or less than what you're currently paying with Blackstone. https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...it-postage-pre-paid/?code=KIT01-EA&zo=5224266


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Here is my UOA from my 2014 Cruze diesel with 7K miles on AMSOIL DHD 5w-30 and AC/Delco filter.








Any idea's as to why it doesn't post in the thread bigger than this?


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)




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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

My wife said the Oil Life is showing 4% left (surprising, since I changed it back in early Feb - but it looks like we've got at least 7k miles on the oil, so it's definitely correct - the drive to/from NC, and to/from Traverse City twice certainly add up), which means we're getting close to a change...assuming I change it at 0%. I switched to Euro L this last change, now that I'm doing them myself, so I was considering running it longer than the ~7500 miles that usually is the result at 0% oil life.

Probably worth getting an oil analysis for shits and giggles, no?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> View attachment 289482


universal averages as in erry sample they get or erry sample they get for a 2.0 diesel?


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

boraz said:


> universal averages as in erry sample they get or erry sample they get for a 2.0 diesel?


I think the averages in the 2nd column are my averages. Since it's my first sample, they show the same. The column to the far right may be for this motor type but some of my numbers are a bit different than that. I don't know if that's good or bad.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

BDCCruze said:


> I think the averages in the 2nd column are my averages. Since it's my first sample, they show the same. The column to the far right may be for this motor type but some of my numbers are a bit different than that. I don't know if that's good or bad.


do they release how many of these motors theyve done testing on and at what miles?

im guessing no, but curious


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

boraz said:


> do they release how many of these motors theyve done testing on and at what miles?
> 
> im guessing no, but curious


Here's what they say:

"We've got 104 samples from GM 2.0L Turbo diesels currently in our average file. We've seen more samples in total, but some have been excluded due to circumstances like wear-in or a potential problem."


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

2014 Cruze CTD. First UOA, purchased bone stock about 1.5 years ago w/ 50K miles. It needed a new timing belt because the water pump was leaking and some other work, but it was cheap at $8K from a friend at work. It now has 68K miles.

OZ Crzrace tuned = 185 whp and 300 lb/ft. Top Speed limiter removed and speedo/SC/TC calibrated for 225/50R18 tires ( +2% Diameter). Engine is stock otherwise. This car handled like a Buick and had an irritating suspension squeak, so I replaced the whole suspension with the following components:


Bilstein B12 Pro Kit
Whiteline Front Control Arm Bushings
Whiteline Rear Sway Bar
Every suspension mount, bushing or link was replaced with upgraded parts by Mevotech Supreme, KYB, or Sachs.
American Racing AR928 Wheels w/ Michelin Pilot Sport S3+ tires in 225/50R18
Camber bolts up front and rear shims allow -1.5 deg camber on all 4 corners

With the stock 17" wheels and LRR 215/55R17 tires, this car could easily get 58-60+ MPGs at 65 Mph and 38-40 MPGs at 90 Mph. However, with the suspension mods and big rear sway bar the car was squirrely, many times the Stability control corrected the car because I took a turn to fast and the rear stepped out.

The 18" wheels and taller, wider and stickier S3+ tires dropped the MPGs by about 10%, but it's much more stable now. The stability control has never corrected the car since.

Oil is 75% RLI Biosyn HD 10w30 and 25% 15w40. Manganese is from fuel additive TDR-FL which likely contains MMT. I ran it almost 2x the normal factory interval of 7500 miles. The oil filter on this engine is small, and I pushed it as far as I felt comfortable.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Got mine changed today around 8900 miles since the last change (which was the first time I used Euro L), and got my sample collected to send into Blackstone. We'll see how that looks.

Oddly, I only seem to have taken out 4 quarts (put in 4.5 quarts last time). There's a visible leak underneath, though 1/2 qt across almost 10k miles and over a year really isn't too big of an issue. Just wonder what it is, hard to tell.

Used my form-a-funnel in place of the filter gutter and that worked out beautifully.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Got my oil report back from my most recent change. Looks like iron is a bit high, so will see how that looks in another 9000 miles. The TBN is good at that mileage, so it is good to know I can run it that long, at least.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Tin is never a good sign in a UOA. Blackstone doesn't measure soot % and their fuel dilution isn't an actual GC test, it's an estimation. Those two are important in diesel engine oil analysis which are missing.

TBN isn't a conclusive indicator of the oil's condition. TAN can eclipse remaining TBN indicating the oil needs to be changed before the TBN is depleted. This generally happens when 65% of the original base number is neutralized. On a C3 oil like this Euro L, a TBN of 2.5-3.0 would indicate the oil likely is starting to degrade due to rising TAN. It is cheaper to follow this guideline that to do additional TAN testing which is likely more expensive than changing the oil in a small sump like the LUZ.

A 5w40 would likely reduce the iron wear which is high on this analysis.



MP81 said:


> Got my oil report back from my most recent change. Looks like iron is a bit high, so will see how that looks in another 9000 miles. The TBN is good at that mileage, so it is good to know I can run it that long, at least.
> 
> View attachment 291802


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Here is the UOA for my 2014 Diesel. This is using the new DP530 AMSOIL 5w-30. Looks like I will go to 10k next. The three before it were AMSOIL's DHD and then the AEL European oil.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

BlueTopaz said:


> Here is the UOA for my 2014 Diesel. This is using the new DP530 AMSOIL 5w-30. Looks like I will go to 10k next. The three before it were AMSOIL's DHD and then the AEL European oil.
> 
> 
> View attachment 294489


Cant read the document. Tried downloading, still blurry. If you could scan it that would be awesome.

what is the TAN and TBN?

Is Dyson still around? I heard he retired.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)




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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

OZ AKA Fleece tuned Cruze 2.0 Dieselw/ 82K miles. Fuel Economy averages 38-41 MPGs per tank on 18" wheels and 225/50R18 Z-rated tires.

Slowly pushing this oil to 15k miles is my goal. Always with AcDelco filters.

-Silicon is likely from the oil pan RTV re-seal after the oil pump pickup seal was replaced with an aftermarket solution. The pickup seal failure is common and will kill the engine. Major design failure by GM on an otherwise awesome powertrain.

-Manganese and low soot @ < 0.1% is from Amalgamated TDR-FL. This tune burns super clean with quality CARB diesel + additive.

Viscosity increased, interesting considering the oxidation value is the same as the virgin sample.

Otherwise, boring UOA.

Refilled with RLI Biosyn HD SHP SAE 30, next sample in 14K miles.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Interesting...iron has gone up even more. Lots of fuel in this one too (which makes sense, given I took out over 5 quarts of oil - the last time I recall draining _less _than the 4.5 quarts I put in - the oil pan leaks did not change between the two times). No issues with how it runs. I was a bit premature in mentioning the pan coming off - that came off after I drained this oil. That said - no visible metal/sparklies at the bottom of the pan or anything.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

MP81 said:


> View attachment 298899
> 
> 
> Interesting...iron has gone up even more. Lots of fuel in this one too (which makes sense, given I took out over 5 quarts of oil - the last time I recall draining _less _than the 4.5 quarts I put in - the oil pan leaks did not change between the two times). No issues with how it runs. I was a bit premature in mentioning the pan coming off - that came off after I drained this oil. That said - no visible metal/sparklies at the bottom of the pan or anything.


Blackstone doesn’t accurately measure fuel dilution, it’s a guesstimate based on the flash point. It’s likely higher than what they’re reporting. Other labs do the correct ASTM test if you want real data.

check your cylinder balance to see if you have a leaking injector(s).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Where am I checking that - does Biscan have an option to see anything that might give me an idea? There's an occasional whiff of diesel outside the vehicle on cold starts, so this wouldn't be entirely a surprise.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Where am I checking that - does Biscan have an option to see anything that might give me an idea? There's an occasional whiff of diesel outside the vehicle on cold starts, so this wouldn't be entirely a surprise.


My mechanic had an autel tablet and he was able to check cylinder balance with it but I don’t know if Biscan can do it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

@Snipesy do you know if Biscan can see that?


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

MP81 said:


> @Snipesy do you know if Biscan can see that?


The balancing rates?
It has those. I think even Torque Pro has it out of box.

For the AU/Asia models you’d need Gretio. Those are special…. Because GM.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> The balancing rates?
> It has those. I think even Torque Pro has it out of box.
> 
> For the AU/Asia models you’d need Gretio. Those are special…. Because GM.


OK, cool. I'll take a look at those next time we're out taking the car for a decent drive


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

MP81 said:


> OK, cool. I'll take a look at those next time we're out taking the car for a decent drive


The one caveat is they do change a lot with rpm. And an abnormally large balance rate doesn’t necessarily imply there is something wrong….


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

MP81 said:


> @Snipesy do you know if Biscan can see that?


There is a lot more to balance rate then just looking at the numbers.
CFR and injector command needs to be considered also.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

On my old VW TDIs we checked balance rates when warmed up at idle and 1800 rpm. This was with an electronically controlled Bosch VE pump and 2 stage nozzles.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Looks like things improved a good bit this time around in terms of metals - I also only took out 4 quarts this time instead of the 6 quarts I took out last time... and a lot less fuel. I thought it was maybe due to the significantly shorter time period this oil change lasted (I changed it in June when I did the oil pump pickup seal - my wife has been going in 4 days a week for the last few months now, as well as going for the "normal" change interval per their suggestion last time) versus that oil I took out (which I put in March of 2021) and how many more shorter trips that would involve, but that oil was previously changed in Feb of 2020 so I don't think it's that. Who knows!


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