# TSB Drain water from fuel filter at oil change interval required



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I made my dealership pay for the stripped oil pan plug. They had been the only people touching my car at that time.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Louis said:


> Hey guys, had the local Chevy dealership change the oil in my CTD Friday. Well, it turned out to be a pair of 17 year old 'mechanics'. Striped my oil pan bold. 'Service ASSociate' finds me in the customer area 'sir your oil pan bold is striped, it will be $20 extra if you want your oil changed' I said fine, and reminded her about draining the water from the fuel filter (this was mentioned, as all of you are aware, it is a diesel there are special requirements there are mechanic tips etc..etc..). At that point I should have left, the last time the oil was changed was at a dealership, go figure. I tried to explain that the plug does not come all the way out of the pan, but all I heard was 'they know what the are doing' from the Ass. Anyways, I wander over and remind the kid mechanics to drain the water from the fuel filter, they can't find the filter, after asking around or 10 minutes I can see that they have given up. On final payment I ask the Ass about draining the water from the fuel filter. Apparently, and I quote 'There is nothing that the dealership has on record about this service being required on this model of vehicle.' Bottom line I want the bulletin, Canadian version I guess, to take to the service manager and say 'train the ASSociates properly or i will be going elsewhere.


Sounds like a poor excuse for a dealership. I hope they didn't put Dexos1 into your car!

For the record, in 174K miles I have never drained the water from my fuel filter.


----------



## dougc905 (May 24, 2015)

Too bad that Washago is pretty far out there. Was the dealer on Orillia? Whatever, if it was me, as soon as they stripped the drain and then had the audacity to charge for replacing it, that would have been the end. Easy for me to say huh. Why not look around for an independent who will let you supply your own materials and just charge for the labour. Then you'd probably be able to chat with the person while he works on your car. Those mechanics still exist, ask around.


----------



## Christopher_2 (Jul 31, 2012)

Tell them to read the owners manual, I just read the manual for a 2015 and it says to drain it at 7500 miles.


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

It was the dealership in Orillia. The wife uses it for her 2014 Cruze LT. (well she used too, that will be changing now, good job, they lost two customers with one stone...) They let me supply Amsoil dex-2, and I have heard they will use/supply it if requested. 7500 miles should be about the interval between oil changes.


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

Just received an email from the service manager (I had emailed him the details earlier, after the wife's mandatory 48hrs cooling off period). Not a problem, he was willing to send someone to pickup the car, drain the water, and return the car. He offered to throw in a complete 'detail' package. I passed on the detail and explained I work some distance away, and it would be easier if I just arranged later in the week to drop by for the drain service. Happy-Happy-Happy (I know, it should have been done without all the drama, but it's moving forward)


----------



## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Well at least the Service Manager came through.
Thank Goodness GM.


----------



## OkieTD (Jun 17, 2014)

Lol, it took my dealership 20 minutes to figure out how to clear my "change timing belt" indication....


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Louis said:


> Just received an email from the service manager (I had emailed him the details earlier, after the wife's mandatory 48hrs cooling off period). Not a problem, he was willing to send someone to pickup the car, drain the water, and return the car. He offered to throw in a complete 'detail' package. I passed on the detail and explained I work some distance away, and it would be easier if I just arranged later in the week to drop by for the drain service. Happy-Happy-Happy (I know, it should have been done without all the drama, but it's moving forward)


Sounds like good customer service there. But I am wondering why you are so concerned with draining the water? I've read every post on this forum, and I think in 3 years maybe one person ever got the "water in fuel" message. Most people never drain and have no issues.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

When I changed the fuel filter on ours back in March, I let everything flow out (didn't use the drain plug on the bottom) into a drain pan I have. I've let that thing sit outside in the sun multiple days - and the liquid amount hasn't decreased much - meaning there was hardly any water at all in the diesel. I wouldn't be too concerned.


----------



## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

We run 40000 miles on our semi fuel filters and very seldom ever drain water from them. There is a drain petcock on the bottom , something wish was on our CTD. 
Usually a loss of power is a reason to drain the filter. Back around 15 years ago seamed to get water all the time in the filter but diesel has come a long and water is seldom a issue anymore.
Im like Diesel 116000 miles and never drained any water from mine.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Gator said:


> There is a drain petcock on the bottom , something wish was on our CTD.


You mean like this that is on the CTD?


----------



## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

That's not a petcock, that you have to use a tool to open. I'm talking a twist like on radiators or preferably a side twist thumb screw


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

You'll get more drained out if it's on the bottom - but you have to have a hex like that so it can flow through the head. Otherwise, it'd need to be redesigned to have an angled bottom with the petcock on one side.


----------



## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

All the CTD is, is a simple drain plug. A petcock can be mounted Directly on the bottom. Wear they are on our semis and have been there for years no need for a new design. Threaded bottom screw petcock in


----------



## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

This is a petcock that should be on the CTD


----------



## 2014Oilburner (Feb 1, 2015)

I was one of the members who has seen the water in fuel message on the DIC. I drained the fuel filter into a few glass jars and could see a cup or so of water in the bottom of one of the jars. Now after a oil change the water in fuel message came on again and so I drained the fuel filter again...2 times in 24K miles.... I guess I'm going to drain the fuel filter at every oil change. It's so easy to do that there's no good reason not to do it while your under the car changing the oil...maybe 15 more minute's and that's using car ramps...a dealer with the car on the lift could do the job in 5 minute's while the oil is draining....BTW... the dealer stripped my oil drain bolt too....told me the bolt seize...I guess they don't think that some people actually get under the car and look and how does a bolt seize in a aluminum oil pan....I know the tech used a english wrench instead of a metric on the bolt and stripped the head of the bolt...anyways...the dealer has ordered me a new drain bolt and this was my last free oil change so I won't have that problem anymore


----------



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

If you're regularly draining water from your filter then you're regularly buying bad fuel. 

Time to buy your diesel somewhere else.


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Yup. At 44k km I've yet to have an issue. Filter is at 11%


----------



## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

money_man said:


> Yup. At 44k km I've yet to have an issue. Filter is at 11%


same here ,my new filter is waiting on the shelf. never been touched in 3 years.


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Where's the best place to order the filter from? I should probably have one on hand.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> Where's the best place to order the filter from? I should probably have one on hand.


I get mine at the dealer and ask for the wholesale price.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Got mine on eBay for $74 - what do they run at the dealer?


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Got mine on eBay for $74 - what do they run at the dealer?


Pretty close to that. Maybe a couple bucks more.


----------



## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

I picked one up on Amazon a couple weeks ago for $70.80, which is the best price I've seen in almost 3 years owning the car. Looks like they're back up to $83 now, but the price rises and falls continuously. I tend to start watching the price when I hit 25,000 miles or 30% on the DIC, and buy when I see a price I like.

Also, the Amazon listing shows the second of the three part numbers that this filter goes by, but the photo shows the most recent part number, which is the one I received.


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

It's in the maintenance manual to drain it every 10k (approx. every oil change) depending on the dealership and you relationship, I think you could possibly be dinged for the cost, if you bring the car in for service because of it running rough/stalling, and they find an unreasonable amount of water in the filter. For the amount of time involved do it before it becomes an 'issue'.


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

diesel said:


> I get mine at the dealer and ask for the wholesale price.


Girlfriend works for the largest dealership chain in Atlantic Canada. I'll get her to check prices. Which part # do I want?


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> Girlfriend works for the largest dealership chain in Atlantic Canada. I'll get her to check prices. Which part # do I want?


I have it in this thread, but not sure if it's been superseded

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/169-...0945-cruze-diesel-diy-fuel-filter-change.html.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I believe the new one is 23456595


----------



## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> I believe the new one is 23456595


It's been superseded yet again. The part number is now 23459023.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Wow, that must've just happened. I bought mine with the number I posted back in March - and it's still the one listed online. Can't even find that new part number.


----------



## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Wow, that must've just happened. I bought mine with the number I posted back in March - and it's still the one listed online. Can't even find that new part number.


For whatever reason, it seems like places are still selling it with the old part number on their listings, but when you order it, you actually receive the new part number. Not sure why that is. If you look at the amazon listing, you can even see that they still list 23456595 in the description, but the filter in their photo is stamped with part number 23459023. https://smile.amazon.com/ACDelco-TP...5430&sr=8-1&keywords=cruze+diesel+fuel+filter


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'd need to look at the box when I get home and see.


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

Major Update, I am using a local mechanic now, did not take the dealership offer, thanks anyway, pass (retired, serviced European diesels at a dealership in Toronto area, very reasonable and knows his way around a diesel -even drives one, Greg The Mechanic -Mark his buddy) I will be using him going forward. footnote, I inquired of the dealership service manager in Barrie (Georgian) if they drained the water, and also mentioned it to co-workers the B.S. I was experiencing. Well, the service manager emailed me back saying, they don't do this as of yet, we are working on a procedure for this service -WTF? The co-worker asked what they were doing with his CTD for the last two years during maintenance service for oil changes, he was upset. They 'reset' the fuel filter monitoring system to 0% every time they changed the oil. Never drained the fuel filter (as per manual), and for that matter never changed the fuel filter (48k/2-years,as per manual)! These are major dealerships in the area with untold diesels purchased through the dealership. Chevy better step in here, if this hits the social media, and other dealerships are this negligent, with the repercussions, you will never see another Chevy diesel in North America.


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

My manual doesn't say once a year. Think it says every 2 or 3 years. Realistically for most drivers it will be every 2.5-3 years.


----------



## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

48,000 kms or two years in the manual.


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

You are correct 48k or 2-years


----------



## putercents (Apr 1, 2016)

Louis said:


> Major Update, I am using a local mechanic now, did not take the dealership offer, thanks anyway, pass (retired, serviced European diesels at a dealership in Toronto area, very reasonable and knows his way around a diesel -even drives one, Greg The Mechanic -Mark his buddy) I will be using him going forward. footnote, I inquired of the dealership service manager in Barrie (Georgian) if they drained the water, and also mentioned it to co-workers the B.S. I was experiencing. Well, the service manager emailed me back saying, they don't do this as of yet, we are working on a procedure for this service -WTF? The co-worker asked what they were doing with his CTD for the last two years during maintenance service for oil changes, he was upset. They 'reset' the fuel filter monitoring system to 0% every time they changed the oil. Never drained the fuel filter (as per manual), and for that matter never changed the fuel filter (48k/2-years,as per manual)! These are major dealerships in the area with untold diesels purchased through the dealership. Chevy better step in here, if this hits the social media, and other dealerships are this negligent, with the repercussions, you will never see another Chevy diesel in North America.


 I just had my oil changed at Paul Sadlon. (Barrie) I tried to get a synthetic option for my first oil change. They did not know of any options. I made sure they were using the dexos 2 oil. The parts person and mechanic were both calling Canadian Tire for a Dexos2 synthetic oil. They also made the comment that this was the first time they used the dexos 2 oil from stock. Long story short, it is overfilled by about 1/2 quart. They obviously put the whole last bottle in. 5qts me thinks lol


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

I use AMSOIL European Car Formula Synthetic Motoroil (Dexos2 compliant), there is a dealer in Orillia (Uptown Service, ask for their 'best' price) you can actually feel the difference, it's like the stock oil is molasses, cold molasses..


----------



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Louis said:


> I use AMSOIL European Car Formula Synthetic Motoroil (Dexos2 compliant), there is a dealer in Orillia (Uptown Service, ask for their 'best' price) you can actually feel the difference, it's like the stock oil is molasses, cold molasses..


Where do you feel it - and how does it feel?


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

Throttle response feels quicker, the rpm's seem to climb faster, And I found the diesel 'sound' to be louder.


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I haven't used amsoil but I have a difficult time thinking an oil is going to make a noticeable difference especially when you refer to original oil like molasses. Sounds more likely to me you want to believe vs actual results. I had my car with original oil from factory and Mobil one synthetic the dealer did with changes and I notice no difference even though the original oil was a blend.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I've had 3 different oils, including semi-syn dexos2, Total Quartz and Amsoil. Never noticed any difference.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I've had 3 different oils, including semi-syn dexos2, Total Quartz and Amsoil. Never noticed any difference.


That's because you won't. It's definitely a placebo effect. 

The CAI in my Cavalier makes it sound louder so it _feels_ faster, but I can almost guarantee it is not any measurable amount quicker.


----------



## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Its not placebo some people can feel and hear differences. I am one of them, some oils act very differently even just at idle.
The difference was so dramatic this oil change my wife even noticed, she asked why the car was quieter.

At the end of the First OCI factory fill, the oil seriously thickened up, it was good until about 20% left on the DIC.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Diesel idle noise is not valvetrain related - and has nothing to do with oil at all, unless you literally don't have enough. 

That clatter is all fuel injectors and loud diesel combustion (diesel knock) at idle - that's how they work - different oil is not going to affect that.

The only time you might actually feel a difference, is by changing oil weight/viscosity, because the oil is literally lighter or heavier. Even then, it's not going to be very noticeable.


----------



## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Diesel idle noise is not valvetrain related - and has nothing to do with oil at all, unless you literally don't have enough.
> 
> That clatter is all fuel injectors and loud diesel combustion (diesel knock) at idle - that's how they work - different oil is not going to affect that.
> 
> The only time you might actually feel a difference, is by changing oil weight/viscosity, because the oil is literally lighter or heavier. Even then, it's not going to be very noticeable.



Just because you dont notice a difference does not mean everyone in the Whole World cant. 
There you go.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Louis said:


> Throttle response feels quicker, the rpm's seem to climb faster, And I found the diesel 'sound' to be louder.


what meds are you on?


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Cruz15 said:


> Its not placebo some people can feel and hear differences. I am one of them, some oils act very differently even just at idle.
> The difference was so dramatic this oil change my wife even noticed, she asked why the car was quieter.
> 
> At the end of the First OCI factory fill, the oil seriously thickened up, it was good until about 20% left on the DIC.


In post 42 you said the diesel sound was louder, now your wife said it is quieter. Yikes this doesn't make sense. :uhh:


----------



## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> In post 42 you said the diesel sound was louder, now your wife said it is quieter. Yikes this doesn't make sense. :uhh:


Thats a different OCI ID, seriously its that hard to get really?
The OP said the FF was like molasses. I made a comment in reference to it.
I will make separate posts as to not confuse you.

Edit Post 42 was the OP there ID just saying.


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Good point. Oops. Sorry


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Oil won't make that kind of difference in this vehicle. I've personally experienced it making an enormous difference in how the engine sounded, but that was with a 1991 toyota pickup 22RE engine. It had a bad engine mount, and I put fresh semi-synthetic Valvoline in when I bought it. The rattling was awful. 2500 miles later, I swapped to AMSOIL and the difference in how smooth the engine ran was so significant that I ended up not fixing the engine mount and selling it as is. You could seriously feel a huge difference. 

It is worth noting that AMSOIL changed the formulation of their European spec oils earlier in the year when they rated the 5w-30 as dexos2 compliant. 

I would not comment on the viscosity of the oil, before or after. That is not something you can see or feel unless you're comparing two extremes. Operating viscosity is at 100C/212F, which is well beyond the temperature at which your skin would be comfortable, so you'd have no way of knowing if the oil sheared in viscosity without sending in the sample for analysis. 

While I strongly doubt that a difference was experienced (or caused by the oil), I can't discount it entirely since I personally had this experience with a vehicle I owned in the past.


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Oil won't make that kind of difference in this vehicle. I've personally experienced it making an enormous difference in how the engine sounded, but that was with a 1991 toyota pickup 22RE engine. It had a bad engine mount, and I put fresh semi-synthetic Valvoline in when I bought it. The rattling was awful. 2500 miles later, I swapped to AMSOIL and the difference in how smooth the engine ran was so significant that I ended up not fixing the engine mount and selling it as is. You could seriously feel a huge difference.
> 
> It is worth noting that AMSOIL changed the formulation of their European spec oils earlier in the year when they rated the 5w-30 as dexos2 compliant.
> 
> ...


Can your please clarify what Dexos 2 compliant means? The oil my chevy dealer uses is just Dexos 2. Thank you.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> Can your please clarify what Dexos 2 compliant means? The oil my chevy dealer uses is just Dexos 2. Thank you.


They are technically quality specifications that provide a maximum or minimum range for a given set of metrics for an oil. For example, all dexos1 and 2 oils need to have a NOACK volatility of no higher than 13%. Dexos2 adds maximum limitations for ash content to protect sensitive emissions control equipment in diesels so you don't end up using something like an API CJ-4 spec diesel oil and fouling up your DPF. A dexos2 compliance means that the oil used meets those minimum specification requirements. Normal companies and organizations just release specifications, like API SN for example, to ensure that the correct lubricant is used in their engines and equipment. Dexos1 and dexos2 however are also blood-sucking oil tax schemes imposed by GM. They also charge an exorbitant amount to test and certify, and charge a royalty per gallon sold.

Your dealer uses an acdelco branded (who knows who actually makes it) semi-synthetic oil that meets dexos2 specifications. It is important to remember that it is a minimum quality specification, and that oils can exceed that quality by a significant amount, and often do. All of the dexos2 compliant oils that I am aware of significantly exceed the quality of the GM-provided semi-synthetic oil.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> All of the dexos2 compliant oils that I am aware of significantly exceed the quality of the GM-provided semi-synthetic oil.


And what do they cost in comparison? 

My dealer does the dexos2 change for the CTD for $40 (including filter, specifies Delco dexos2 on the invoice). If I can get a full synthetic for the same cost or not much more, I'm down.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MP81 said:


> And what do they cost in comparison?
> 
> My dealer does the dexos2 change for the CTD for $40 (including filter, specifies Delco dexos2 on the invoice). If I can get a full synthetic for the same cost or not much more, I'm down.


The CTD cost well over $22,000 brand new, not including tax, title, license. What is your definition of "not much more?"


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

"Well over $22k" sure, ours was $29k - that's not really expensive or anything. What's your point? Purchase price of the vehicle doesn't have any correlation to me with the oil price. 

The standard oil change for a CTD is somewhere like $80 at other dealers. Even if I buy the AC Delco oil myself, I cannot do it for the $40 they charge (likely an at-loss service to bring other services in) at our dealer. 

I already have three other vehicles that I change myself, so if synthetic/better oil is going to cost me significantly more than $40, I'm not going to spend my time _and_ spend more money.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> your dealer uses an acdelco branded (who knows who actually makes it) semi-synthetic oil that meets dexos2 specifications. It is important to remember that it is a minimum quality specification, and that oils can exceed that quality by a significant amount, and often do. All of the dexos2 compliant oils that I am aware of significantly exceed the quality of the GM-provided semi-synthetic oil.


im happy to report your wrong on this one. they use a dexos 2 oil with arabic writing ( i assume) and it says full synthetic


----------



## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

Oil can change a diesel clatter. I've seen (heard) it happen in bigger diesels. Same weight, different manufacturers.


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> They are technically quality specifications that provide a maximum or minimum range for a given set of metrics for an oil. For example, all dexos1 and 2 oils need to have a NOACK volatility of no higher than 13%. Dexos2 adds maximum limitations for ash content to protect sensitive emissions control equipment in diesels so you don't end up using something like an API CJ-4 spec diesel oil and fouling up your DPF. A dexos2 compliance means that the oil used meets those minimum specification requirements. Normal companies and organizations just release specifications, like API SN for example, to ensure that the correct lubricant is used in their engines and equipment. Dexos1 and dexos2 however are also blood-sucking oil tax schemes imposed by GM. They also charge an exorbitant amount to test and certify, and charge a royalty per gallon sold.
> 
> Your dealer uses an acdelco branded (who knows who actually makes it) semi-synthetic oil that meets dexos2 specifications. It is important to remember that it is a minimum quality specification, and that oils can exceed that quality by a significant amount, and often do. All of the dexos2 compliant oils that I am aware of significantly exceed the quality of the GM-provided semi-synthetic oil.


Thanks for the explanation. My chevy dealer uses Mobil 1 Super XE synthetic 5w-30, I watched them put it in and they provide the 2/3 of a liter or quart that they don't use for the change. The only GM blend oil my CTD had has was from the factory and I had it changed at around 5100 miles. Just asking because I am uncertain what oil I am going to use after the next two free changes by dealer. I may just let the dealer continue to service my CTD, unlike other dealers they do a great job.


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> "Well over $22k" sure, ours was $29k - that's not really expensive or anything. What's your point? Purchase price of the vehicle doesn't have any correlation to me with the oil price.
> 
> The standard oil change for a CTD is somewhere like $80 at other dealers. Even if I buy the AC Delco oil myself, I cannot do it for the $40 they charge (likely an at-loss service to bring other services in) at our dealer.
> 
> I already have three other vehicles that I change myself, so if synthetic/better oil is going to cost me significantly more than $40, I'm not going to spend my time _and_ spend more money.


I think my local chevy dealer charges around $80 for a CTD change and mine uses mobil 1 synthetic xe super or something like that, it is dexos 2. That probably breaks out near $10 per liter, so there is like $45, filter is $10 so if you do it yourself with tax is prolly near $60. Others can chime in. I am not sure it is worth doing it for$20 bucks. Plus if there is ever a engine issue, no question if it was changed on schedule or not. Go to a truck stop and put DEF in with a pump and clean up your mess. Dealer over charges for DEF.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> im happy to report your wrong on this one. they use a dexos 2 oil with arabic writing ( i assume) and it says full synthetic


My knowledge is based on the images I saw a year or two ago, so they may have changed the bottle since then. It didn't have any arabic writing at that time. 












MP81 said:


> "Well over $22k" sure, ours was $29k - that's not really expensive or anything. What's your point? Purchase price of the vehicle doesn't have any correlation to me with the oil price.
> 
> The standard oil change for a CTD is somewhere like $80 at other dealers. Even if I buy the AC Delco oil myself, I cannot do it for the $40 they charge (likely an at-loss service to bring other services in) at our dealer.
> 
> I already have three other vehicles that I change myself, so if synthetic/better oil is going to cost me significantly more than $40, I'm not going to spend my time _and_ spend more money.


The reason I bring up the cost of the vehicle is to point out that maintenance costs are relative. You currently use a semi-synthetic oil for $40 a change, while there are noteworthy benefits to fully synthetic oils, or 100% synthetic oils, that are wroth the price premium. A change of synthetic would likely cost you somewhere around $50 plus filter, assuming you're in the US, while providing better soot control, reduced volatility (for longer DPF and emissions equipment life), and better turbo protection, and if you are so inclined, many of those synthetics are clear for up to and over 10,000 mile intervals. I know "diesel" tested some out to 15,000 miles and everything looked great. 



IndyDiesel said:


> Thanks for the explanation. My chevy dealer uses Mobil 1 Super XE synthetic 5w-30, I watched them put it in and they provide the 2/3 of a liter or quart that they don't use for the change. The only GM blend oil my CTD had has was from the factory and I had it changed at around 5100 miles. Just asking because I am uncertain what oil I am going to use after the next two free changes by dealer. I may just let the dealer continue to service my CTD, unlike other dealers they do a great job.


That's better than the semi-synthetic that GM started using in these cars at the beginning, and it's nice that they provide you the extra so you can top off if needed. If your dealer does a great job, it's worth considering using them. I have all of my filters and oil shipped to my house, and it takes me just as much time to do it myself as it does to drive to the dealer, wait for the bay to be ready, get the oil changed, and drive back home, plus I am able to do it at my own schedule, not just when their service department is open.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)




----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The reason I bring up the cost of the vehicle is to point out that maintenance costs are relative. You currently use a semi-synthetic oil for $40 a change, while there are noteworthy benefits to fully synthetic oils, or 100% synthetic oils, that are wroth the price premium. A change of synthetic would likely cost you somewhere around $50 plus filter, assuming you're in the US, while providing better soot control, reduced volatility (for longer DPF and emissions equipment life), and better turbo protection, and if you are so inclined, many of those synthetics are clear for up to and over 10,000 mile intervals. I know "diesel" tested some out to 15,000 miles and everything looked great.


Fair enough. And for $50 + filter, I would have no issue doing that. That's about the cost I was assuming, and would be more than fine with it. I also won't have to sit at the dealer for an hour or two after work waiting for the car to be done. 

I switched to full synthetic on my Cobalt on the first oil change I did when I bought it back in 2008 (27k miles), and have run it since (over 117k now), which was a good choice considering all the modifications I've made. 

It costs more per oil change (Just Mobil 1 and a Delco filter, so it's not crazy expensive, but is about double of non-synthetic), but I run the oil to about 10,000 miles every time - I probably save money doing that compared to changing it earlier with lower-quality non-synthetic oil, or at least nearly break even.


----------



## Louis (Dec 28, 2015)

MP81 said:


> The CAI in my Cavalier makes it sound louder so it _feels_ faster, but I can almost guarantee it is not any measurable amount quicker.


You don't think a Cold Air Intake would make a difference in hp, and torque ? Why spend the money ?


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Noise.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Louis said:


> You don't think a Cold Air Intake would make a difference in hp, and torque ? Why spend the money ?


rice points

same reason ppl screw up their ride with big wheels


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Louis said:


> You don't think a Cold Air Intake would make a difference in hp, and torque ? Why spend the money ?


Because a friend of mine bought it for his Cavalier, not knowing they changed the intake routing between '97 and '98, so I got it for like $60.

It probably added like, 1-2 HP. Sounds cool, didn't spend much, why not. Any small amount added to 115HP helps. That's why it might get a catback if this Walker one rusts off. Already has a 2.25" mandrel-bent downpipe to replace the Walker one that rusted apart in two years.


----------



## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

My father drains the filter everytime he changes my oil at his dealership (as you are supposed to) and he never finds any water.


----------



## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

boraz said:


> rice points
> 
> same reason ppl screw up their ride with big wheels


A larger diameter wheel and tire combination does not always or automatically screw up the ride... With quality wheels and tires the ride will be a little stiffer, but will greatly improve handling. On my Jetta TDI we went with an 18-inch set to replace the factory 16s and actually saved around 2.5-lbs of unsprung weight per corner if I remember correctly. This was using TSW Interlagos rotary-forged wheels and Goodyear Eagle GT tires and it improved the handling a huge amount while increasing the stiffness/harshness only a little amount so overall it was a great improvement in the ride!!! I will be doing a similar upgrade on my Cruze Diesel soon!!!!


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> A larger diameter wheel and tire combination does not always or automatically screw up the ride... With quality wheels and tires the ride will be a little stiffer, but will greatly improve handling. On my Jetta TDI we went with an 18-inch set to replace the factory 16s and actually saved around 2.5-lbs of unsprung weight per corner if I remember correctly. This was using TSW Interlagos rotary-forged wheels and Goodyear Eagle GT tires and it improved the handling a huge amount while increasing the stiffness/harshness only a little amount so overall it was a great improvement in the ride!!! I will be doing a similar upgrade on my Cruze Diesel soon!!!!


I think the reference was more being made at putting something like a 26" wheel on a vehicle.


----------



## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> I think the reference was more being made at putting something like a 26" wheel on a vehicle.


Well, ya that would ruin almost anything!!!

I have 17s on our old 1990 BMW 535i that sits in the driveway... Our 2006 VW Jetta TDI had 18s, our 2000 Chevy Tahoe Limited has 18s, my Duramax Silverado has 17-inch KMC Enduro Beadlocks with 37-inch Goodyear MT/Rs.

My son's 2002 VW TDI has stock 15 or 16-inchers and our Cruze Diesel has the stock 17s. But I hope to upgrade both of these cars soon with rotary-forged TSW wheels, 17s on Kyle's TDI and 18s for our Cruze...


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I went from the factory 15" steelie with a 195/60R15 Potenza RE960 AS's to 18" MSR 045s with 225/40R18 Dunlop Direzza ZIIs. The weight isn't much more, despite being a much wider tire. The grip, however, is lightyears apart.


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

CruzeDan said:


> My father drains the filter everytime he changes my oil at his dealership (as you are supposed to) and he never finds any water.


You're correct however a lot of us have gone a whole filter change and never drained it. No issues, not meaning to sound like "well it never happened to me so can't happen" but it seems to something to do either never or maybe when your filter reads 50%


----------

