# Drove my ctd for the first time... Not without issue...



## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

So I finally got my car on the road today, first time getting to drive it other than a test drive. Made my daily commute of 110 miles. About 7 miles from home I got the exhaust fluid poor quality warning.

50,500 miles. Purchased from a private party. 

What can I expect from a dealer? I believe the owner before me did in fact have the recall done, if that's relevant to this situation. 

No cel yet, just 93 miles to 65mph max when I pulled into the driveway. 

Is there a pretty common fix for this, more importantly is there a warranty to cover it? 

Just kind of looking for what to expect. 

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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

First thing I don't believe you bought a car without having it checked out. Did you happen to ask the previous owner why they were selling or just want to buy a car? Did they do recommended services/maintenance or were they having the same problems and just wanting to unload it on someone? You should at least have a power train warranty but IDK if that applies here. Since I don't have a diesel I cannot offer much on that front.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Aaron/VA said:


> So I finally got my car on the road today, first time getting to drive it other than a test drive. Made my daily commute of 110 miles. About 7 miles from home I got the exhaust fluid poor quality warning.
> 
> 50,500 miles. Purchased from a private party.
> 
> ...


That's pretty much common when buying privately and you don't know history behind that car. I would consider a full delete, now depends the emissions law in your area. Good luck.

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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Looking through the warranty manual(s) for 2014 and 2015 (since you did not specify) it appears 'most' components related to the def system have 8/80 coverage.
Regardless of who owns the car, the warranty is for the vehicle, not the owner......you could be the 20th owner and the coverage still applies.

Obviously, the failure has to be diagnosed before the 'who pays' question gets answered, so, a service dept. trip is in your future.
I might add, the diesel folks on this site have discussed some kind of warranty extension for a def issue, so, watch for more responses to your question over the next several hours.

I suspect your previous owner may not have been aware of a problem......it seems this cars emission system is very sensitive to driving style and habits based on past reports.
IMO the def system is a bit too sensitive to variables such as def quality anyways since I'm always chasing this code on medium duty diesel trucks and construction equipment regardless of who built it.

Bottom line: dealer diagnostics required.

Rob


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

DEF components are only covered under the 3/36 B2B. The only component I know of covered under the 8/80 warranty is the cat.

The DEF heater has had supplementary warranty coverage added since the vehicles release - 10/120, I believe.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> The DEF heater has had supplementary warranty coverage added since the vehicles release - 10/120, I believe.


With almost 100% certainty, I can say this is your problem and it will be fixed for free. There is no warning or way to check for this condition. It just happens. After this is fixed, you should be good to go.

While you're in there, have them reverse the recall as well. 

Good luck and keep us posted.

This may be helpful

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g...mmon-issues-fixes-2014-2015-cruze-diesel.html


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

On my way to the dealer now. Cel has been ignited.... 

I feel like a real ctd owner now. 

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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Aaron/VA said:


> On my way to the dealer now. Cel has been ignited....
> 
> I feel like a real ctd owner now.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


Welcome to the big leagues. hahahaha.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Get used to seeing it. As mentioned this is most likely the tank heater covered under special policy. No big deal. Most have had it done.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Yup, happened to me. Definitely aggravating. Hope you get it fixed properly. Def tank heater SB a warranty fix.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

I wish I could tell the dealer that the guys on cruzetalk says it's the tank heater, 5 hours and no diagnosis. I ended up leaving after 2.5 hours of waiting. 

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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Got an update, it's the pump, not covered under warranty. 

Gonna be about $565 parts/labor

Anybody had this happen?

Edit, he called back forgot to add the diagnostics.... $650 with a discount. 

Strongly considering a delete instead. 

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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

Delete it. Your already at 1/2 the price of a delete with only 100 miles driven. For sure it will be cost effective. Dont worry the new EPA head Pruitt is in bed with the oil companies, they wont come knocking!


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

Aaron/VA said:


> Got an update, it's the pump, not covered under warranty.
> 
> Gonna be about $565 parts/labor
> 
> ...


Previous owner sold it for a reason my friend, sorry to say that. ?

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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

How would he know the def pump was about to go? 

It's not something you can clear and keep driving. He was a older gentlemen, not a young guy with a tuner. 

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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

OK Diesel guys,

For my own info, where is the def pump located?

Rob


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I would go on a GM parts online site, and figure out what that component really costs. I will say this the emission warranty on this car is a fing joke, this is a new system and this is obvious a part of the emission system.

I have had my 15 ctd and love it. Drove 250 miles today and will do the same tomorrow. What a highway cruiser it is.

Best of luck with whatever decisions you make. Sorry you had such bad luck so soon, that was a really short honeymoon :dazed052:


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

Welcome to the forum and the CTD world. Tough luck off the start. Hope it gets sorted out without too much $$$ damage. My concern with a delete is I'm not a real motor head and not sure where the car could be serviced if there was a issue down the line. Best of luck


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

mkohan said:


> Welcome to the forum and the CTD world. Tough luck off the start. Hope it gets sorted out without too much $$$ damage. My concern with a delete is I'm not a real motor head and not sure where the car could be serviced if there was a issue down the line. Best of luck


The car can be serviced anywhere with a delete. It's just basically an exhaust system change. But chances are, if you're deleted, the car won't be having anymore issues anyway


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Robby said:


> Looking through the warranty manual(s) for 2014 and 2015 (since you did not specify) it appears 'most' components related to the def system have 8/80 coverage.
> Regardless of who owns the car, the warranty is for the vehicle, not the owner......you could be the 20th owner and the coverage still applies.
> 
> Obviously, the failure has to be diagnosed before the 'who pays' question gets answered, so, a service dept. trip is in your future.
> ...


please edit this

as moderator its improper to mislead aboot the emissions warranty this much


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Robby said:


> OK Diesel guys,
> 
> For my own info, where is the def pump located?
> 
> Rob


in the def tank


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

boraz said:


> in the def tank


Is it removable or does the tank require replacement?

BTW...I haven't edited the post you asked about since I'm still doing some in depth legwork on coverages.

Rob


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Aaron/VA said:


> Got an update, it's the pump, not covered under warranty.
> 
> Gonna be about $565 parts/labor
> 
> ...





Aaron/VA said:


> I wish I could tell the dealer that the guys on cruzetalk says it's the tank heater, 5 hours and no diagnosis. I ended up leaving after 2.5 hours of waiting.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


Something doesn't jive here. I'm not saying they are wrong, but the DEF heater is one of the most common issues in our cars, and it does cause the Poor DEF message. And guess what, if they are wrong about the diagnosis, you're stuck, literally and figuratively.

Can you get a second opinion, or maybe open a case with GM? I don't know how they can spend 5 hours on this diagnosis and actually know what they are doing.

It may also help to show them the special coverage bulletin. Hopefully they are willing to work with you.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

I spoke with the service director yesterday evening, he seemed well aware of the tank heater issue, however explained because my pump failed, it wasn't covered. 

And was sure to tout the fact that they had 2 master certified techs in a highly diesel populated area(not necessarily cruze). 

Granted I have no idea if their diagnosis is correct. But I agree with you, it took entirely too long to figure it out. But I also wonder how much of that time they were actually working on my car. I could get a second opinion but then I'm out another diagnostics test if it ends up being the same. 

I'm wondering, and I'll find out this morning, if the whole tank is what they have to replace? When the heaters go bad, do they replace the entire tank assembly? 

I'm wondering because it's the same part failing, but depending on the component of failure is dependent upon warranty coverage? If that's the case, that's messed up. 

I'm planning on keeping this car for a very long time, and a pricy emission issue on day one really makes me want to buy once cry once and delete. 

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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

When the heater fails, they replace the reservoir, as it is integrated into that.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I don't recall any DEF pump failures ever mentioned on this forum, so that increases the odds they are wrong in the diagnosis. I am not sure where the pump it. I also just did a quick search on the forum, and I could not find any instances of it failing. 

Hopefully they will be reasonable with you. If you do go their route, I'd like to see them guarantee their diagnosis in writing. If they are wrong, you get a new DEF heater and your money back.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I don't recall any DEF pump failures ever mentioned on this forum, so that increases the odds they are wrong in the diagnosis. I am not sure where the pump it. I also just did a quick search on the forum, and I could not find any instances of it failing.
> 
> Hopefully they will be reasonable with you. If you do go their route, I'd like to see them guarantee their diagnosis in writing. If they are wrong, you get a new DEF heater and your money back.


I agree - never once have I seen the DEF pump failure - nor should it influence this code. Wouldn't the pump have to be functional in order for the system to tell if DEF quality was low?


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Well I brought my car home, they felt confident in the pump diagnosis. He said the checked everything including test samples of my def fluid and diesel fuel it's self for whatever reason. 

Wouldn't budge on the $650. So I told them I was just going to delete it. They didn't object to that route at all. Haha

So here I go. 

Also just want to throw a thank you out to all of you guys and this forum for the help you've provided, whether on my threads or reading other threads. I appreciate it and hopefully can contribute my own advice in the future. 

Literally everything I know about this car has come from this site, I had no idea a delete even existed or that I would be going that route had you asked me a few weeks ago. 

I'll keep you updated. 

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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

What @diesel is saying though, is people have had the DEF Low Quality CEL/message before and it ended up being the reservoir.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

I understand that, but they're not budging, I don't have time to get tugged around taking to another dealer and paying for more diagnostics. Not waiting on a case with gm. 

I sold the cobalt prematurely, so now I'm stuck driving my v8 dodge 110 miles daily. I'm hoping the kit will get here by the weekend. And be done with it. If I had time I would definitely look into other avenues, but I just don't have the time. And I like the idea of deleting anyway, just didn't want to before warranty was up. 

I can't question the dealer just because I'm having an uncommon issue. Especially when I have no ground to technically stand on. 

"The guys on the internet say your techs are probably wrong." However true that may be. Haha 


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> I agree - never once have I seen the DEF pump failure - nor should it influence this code. Wouldn't the pump have to be functional in order for the system to tell if DEF quality was low?


low def quality means the exhaust post scr is too high in nox.

the car doesnt know if the def is good or not, just the end result is wrong, so blames the def quality


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm still waiting for a answer regarding if the pump can be replaced independent of the tank.

Rob


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Robby said:


> I'm still waiting for a answer regarding if the pump can be replaced independent of the tank.
> 
> Rob


My dealer says yes it can be replaced independently. 

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Robby said:


> I'm still waiting for a answer regarding if the pump can be replaced independent of the tank.
> 
> Rob


splained good in here http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...voir-definitive-explanation-part-numbers.html


inside the trunk is the 'def tank'

inside the 'def tank' is the 'def reservoir' Reservoir Kit | Genuine GM | 23377881 : GM Parts Direct: Your direct source for Genuine GM Parts

'def reservoir' is heater and sensor, bolted to it is the pump....

i dont see pump listed anywhere as an available part.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Aaron/VA said:


> My dealer says yes it can be replaced independently.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


Your thread is what has me doing the legwork.......so far, I cannot verify the part is a stand alone.....more info tomorrow.

Rob


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

I couldn't either, before boraz posted that link I had already searched for the pump and couldn't find it. I was going to use the argument that if the tank had to be replaced then it shouldn't matter what component actually failed, it's still the same part/assembly. 

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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

MP81 said:


> Wouldn't the pump have to be functional in order for the system to tell if DEF quality was low?


How would the computer know if the pump is running? 

I'm thinking that the computer is commanding the pump to run, but not seeing the expected results. So it sets the code known as "Bad DEF fluid". But that's not the only thing that can cause that test to fail.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Good choice on the delete. You'll never deal with that emissions nonsense again. 

Just did mine a couple weeks ago. Let me know if you have any questions.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Problem solved. 










Hopefully I can enjoy my new car for a while now. Thanks for the help/advice/suggestions again guys. 

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Wise choice. This car is amazing when functioning properly. The way it runs with the proper tuning makes you realize how crappy the factory tune was just to limp it into emissions compliance.

If I went back to stock I would think my engine was running on 3 cylinders and a plugged fuel filter.


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