# Diesel additives (and motor oil)



## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

You guys that have been running the diesel Cruzes for a while, are you using any additives when filling the tank? Does the manual say anything about this?

Going back to when I started driving diesels with my 84 Rabbit around 1998, I've always used Power Service white for the winter and Power Service silver for the summer. It was recommended by some old school diesel heads I knew back then. I thought it would especially help with an older diesel and the low sulphur fuels mandated a few years ago so I've been using it every tank. I assume the Cruze is set up for ULSD already but the additives help with anti-gel when cold and supposedly keep the system clean much like a Seafoam or Techron does on a gas car. 

On the subject of oil, I saw the sticky and didn't see what I've used for years in the TDI and the Cummins (takes 3 gallons to fill that thing), which is Shell Rotella T6 5w40 full synthetic.

Shell Rotella® Products - Shell Rotella

I'll have to check the Rotella bottle and see how it compares to the specifications on those oils listed in the sticky. I've read that it meets the VW earlier standards for Bosch VE injection pump TDI engines, have to see if it's compatible with the latest. 

Before that I used Castrol 5w50 syntec in the old Rabbit, it was the only way to be sure it would start easily in the winter after sitting out all day at work. Dino 15w40 turned into syrup in the oil pan when really cold. I don't know if they even make the 5w50 any more.....


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Basically, you want an oil that is mid-ash or lower. Any Oil meeting vw specs for 09' and later common rails is an acceptable substitute for the Dexos2 standard GM uses.

The manual calls for 5w30 in the US. I'm personally running a Dexos2 certified 5w40.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

As far as additives go, the manual says not use them. 

I use powerservice, in case I run into improperly treated fuel. PA diesel has 2% bio diesel content by law, so lubricity isn't a concern for me.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Basically, you want an oil that is mid-ash or lower. Any Oil meeting vw specs for 09' and later common rails is an acceptable substitute for the Dexos2 standard GM uses.
> 
> The manual calls for 5w30 in the US. I'm personally running a Dexos2 certified 5w40.


Aha, thanks for the reply. I'll check the bottle to be sure the T6 is CR compliant. 

The Dexos 5w30 the dealer uses in my wife's Malibu is a synthetic blend, I believe. It's so cheap and painless to have the dealer do that, I've never touched that car. It never needs anything. 

If/hen I get a Cruze, I'll do the oil changes myself. I like having a look around the engine compartment and underneath every now and again.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

888 said:


> Aha, thanks for the reply. I'll check the bottle to be sure the T6 is CR compliant.
> 
> The Dexos 5w30 the dealer uses in my wife's Malibu is a synthetic blend, I believe. It's so cheap and painless to have the dealer do that, I've never touched that car. It never needs anything.
> 
> If/hen I get a Cruze, I'll do the oil changes myself. I like having a look around the engine compartment and underneath every now and again.


I'm pretty positive T6 while an excellent oil for the vw pd and alh engines is inappropriate for modern exhaust systems in the common rails.

The mobil 1 esp line of oils is the path of least resistance besides having the dealer put in the dexos2 ac delcho oil. 

Good luck in the search!


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Stanadyne manufactured the fuel pumps in the old 6.2L GM diesels. They make some additives for lubricity and power. I like them because they come from a fuel pump manufacturer. Not sure if our diesels need any additives but they may be worth a look. Diesel Fuel Additives - Stanadyne


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I never use any additives in mine. Always make sure to use a good Dexos2 (or equivalent) oil or risk damage to the exhaust system and/or engine.


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Don't need any additives in the motor oil .. run the best synthetic oil like amsoil ,castrol, Elf ,Mobil 1 diesel rated 5W-40 and you will have a very happy motor for years to come.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Due to the shift to ultra low sulfur diesel fuel mandated by the EPA in the US, a cetane boost and injector cleaner additive is strongly recommended. I also strongly recommend having an emergency diesel fuel treatment on hand in case your fuel gels up from excessive cold temperatures. Both additives will add lubricity to your fuel, necessary for keeping your injectors from gunking up with soot and your particulate filter from filling up too quickly. Regular use of these additives will make particulate filter cleaning a rare occasion as well as vastly extend the life of your pump and injectors. Given how little furl these cars use and how much those injectors cost, you will be thanking yourself when those that ignored this advice have to foot the bill for those repairs.

Sent from mobile.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

GotDiesel? said:


> Don't need any additives in the motor oil .. run the best synthetic oil like amsoil ,castrol, Elf ,Mobil 1 diesel rated 5W-40 and you will have a very happy motor for years to come.


'

I 100% agree with you on that opinion, I was actually referring to additives for the diesel fuel rather than the engine oil.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Due to the shift to ultra low sulfur diesel fuel mandated by the EPA in the US, a cetane boost and injector cleaner additive is strongly recommended. I also strongly recommend having an emergency diesel fuel treatment on hand in case your fuel gels up from excessive cold temperatures. Both additives will add lubricity to your fuel, necessary for keeping your injectors from gunking up with soot and your particulate filter from filling up too quickly. Regular use of these additives will make particulate filter cleaning a rare occasion as well as vastly extend the life of your pump and injectors. Given how little furl these cars use and how much those injectors cost, you will be thanking yourself when those that ignored this advice have to foot the bill for those repairs.
> 
> Sent from mobile.


That's the way I always saw it, I've never had to worry about a particulate filter before so if the additives help with that, so much the better.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

888 said:


> That's the way I always saw it, I've never had to worry about a particulate filter before so if the additives help with that, so much the better.


Particulate filters are used in the exhaust to filter soot. That's why the exhaust pipe looks clean all the time. The engine monitors backpressure, and when that increases above a certain level, it is determined that the filter is full.

There have been two primary methods for cleaning out this filter. One is to spray diesel fuel from an injector installed in the exhaust. This is a newer method. The other method dumps excessive amounts of fuel into the engine to create a rich burn that sends unburnt fuel into the exhaust to clean the filter. It is referred to as a regent cycle. The problem with the second method is that it causes significant fuel contamination in the order of 7-14% and prohibits longer drain intervals of oils.

In both cases, cetane boost will provide a cleaner diesel fuel burn, easier starts, improved fuel economy, and smoother idle. The poor lubricity of ultra low sulfur diesel causes deposits to form on fuel injectors, which causes poor fuel atomization and excessive smoke (which fills the particulate filter). Injector clean restores the lost lubricity. The cleaner burn also reduces soot contamination of the crankcase.

16oz of cetane boost and 32oz of injector clean will cost just short of $35 and will treat 160 gallons of fuel or roughly 6 tanks. It's a small price to pay to fix the problems caused by the EPA and keep you from needing new injectors and a pump at 200-300k miles like we've seen in diesel trucks.

Sent from mobile.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Im actually shocked no one had anything to say about the infinium report I posted a few days ago, with so many concerned about fuel quality....


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Particulate filters are used in the exhaust to filter soot. That's why the exhaust pipe looks clean all the time. The engine monitors backpressure, and when that increases above a certain level, it is determined that the filter is full.
> 
> There have been two primary methods for cleaning out this filter. One is to spray diesel fuel from an injector installed in the exhaust. This is a newer method. The other method dumps excessive amounts of fuel into the engine to create a rich burn that sends unburnt fuel into the exhaust to clean the filter. It is referred to as a regent cycle. The problem with the second method is that it causes significant fuel contamination in the order of 7-14% and prohibits longer drain intervals of oils.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation. What do you mean when you say "longer drain interval of oils"? What is the interval in miles are you referring to? 

I don't go over 5k intervals in any of my diesels, even with synthetic. Well, I'm 500 miles over now because it's cold and I'm putting off dealing with the belly pan to change the oil.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

888 said:


> Thanks for the explanation. What do you mean when you say "longer drain interval of oils"? What is the interval in miles are you referring to?
> 
> I don't go over 5k intervals in any of my diesels, even with synthetic. Well, I'm 500 miles over now because it's cold and I'm putting off dealing with the belly pan to change the oil.


With proper filtration and a synthetic lubricant, I have seen Diesel pickup trucks go 35,000 miles on a change of oil with oil testing analysis. Those vehicles also use bypass filters to control soot contamination. 

A TRUE synthetic oil is capable of at minimum 15,000 miles as long as the filtration system is doing its job. I have seen absolutely pristine TDI engine internals with over 350,000 miles on them that used a true synthetic. 

The GM DEXOS2 synthetic blend cannot safely go more than 7,500 miles in my honest opinion, and I have reservations about the filter being able to go that long as well. 

Oil testing analysis will show you the condition of your oil. Do keep in mind that in the oil industry, there is more than one definition for the word "synthetic."

Sent from mobile.


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## Tdi'r (Jan 5, 2014)

Scott M. said:


> Stanadyne manufactured the fuel pumps in the old 6.2L GM diesels. They make some additives for lubricity and power. I like them because they come from a fuel pump manufacturer. Not sure if our diesels need any additives but they may be worth a look. Diesel Fuel Additives - Stanadyne


I've used Stanadyne Performance Formula in the Duramax for last 10 years (Also use it in diesel John Deere & Kubota). Breaks down to about 8oz. per fill up in the CD. I ordered it online for years and then discovered our local a Rural King carries it.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

888 said:


> Thanks for the explanation. What do you mean when you say "longer drain interval of oils"? What is the interval in miles are you referring to?
> 
> I don't go over 5k intervals in any of my diesels, even with synthetic. Well, I'm 500 miles over now because it's cold and I'm putting off dealing with the belly pan to change the oil.


What do you mean belly pan?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> With proper filtration and a synthetic lubricant, I have seen Diesel pickup trucks go 35,000 miles on a change of oil with oil testing analysis. Those vehicles also use bypass filters to control soot contamination.
> 
> A TRUE synthetic oil is capable of at minimum 15,000 miles as long as the filtration system is doing its job. I have seen absolutely pristine TDI engine internals with over 350,000 miles on them that used a true synthetic.
> 
> ...


factory intervals for trucks are ~30,000 miles


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> What do you mean belly pan?


underbody aero shields


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> underbody aero shields


That's what I thought you meant. You don't have to mess with those for oil change. (Now if you want to do anything with your fuel filter, you do.)


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

diesel said:


> What do you mean belly pan?


On a TDI (and most VW's from 2000 forward), there is a plastic pan under the engine compartment, we usually call it a belly pan in VW land. It mounts to two plastic side pans that attach to the underside of the unibody, together they form this: [___]. The belly pan is the horizontal part and mounts to the side pans and front subframe and front air dam via an array of button head Torx screws in speed nuts. The front of the car needs to be in the air a good ways to get to all the speed nuts to get it loose. It's a serious thorn in the arse to get everything lined back up and get the screws all started while laying on your back in the snow, all of which is why I haven't changed the oil. 

I've driven with and without the pans and seen no change in mpg so I don't believe it has a huge aero impact. I think the main original purpose of the pan was to keep crap from the road out of the engine compartment, they can't have imagined that the plastic would have protected that cast aluminum oil pan, I'm sure. I have a TDI that was one of the first in the "new" body style, it is a 99.5 and there is a little insulation on the side facing the engine. I always take it off because it soaks up oil and I want to see if any oil is leaking down there. By the time my second one was made in 01, VW added this amazing insulation landscape of little block shapes that looks like an M.C. Escher drawing to the engine side of the plastic pan so they must have decided that the engine was too loud and spent a few million on that masterpiece. 

My 99.5 has been Upsolute chipped and lowered, I ended up buying what is called a Panzer plate/full metal jacket kit from dieselgeek and spending 8 hours installing that to protect the oil pan and engine compartment. It's thick aluminum plate and very durable, it has an opening in the plate for getting to the oil pan drain plug and an insert to fill that hole if you want. Meaning, it never has to come off. I leave the insert off so I can see if there are leaks. 

I read most of the thread on the insulation catching fire on the Cruze belly pan and thought to myself of the times I've had oil floating on the insulation on a VW car either diesel or gas and nothing has caught fire. The Cruze must have the exhaust system closer to the insulation. Regardless, I expect when there are enough Cruze diesels out there someone like dieselgeek will probably come up with a panzer plate and address the problem. If dieselgeek doesn't make one if/when I get a Cruze, I'll see if I can't find one of our precision fab vendors to come up with something off of the OEM pan sans insulation. I really don't mind the sound of a diesel, I drove a Cummins with a straight pipe for 5 years.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> With proper filtration and a synthetic lubricant, I have seen Diesel pickup trucks go 35,000 miles on a change of oil with oil testing analysis. Those vehicles also use bypass filters to control soot contamination.
> 
> A TRUE synthetic oil is capable of at minimum 15,000 miles as long as the filtration system is doing its job. I have seen absolutely pristine TDI engine internals with over 350,000 miles on them that used a true synthetic.
> 
> ...


No disrespect intended but I could never let engine oil go much over 5k before changing it. That goes for the Dexos blend for sure. My dad beat 3k intervals into me growing up on Dino oil so 5k is a big concession. I never overload my Cummins because diesel is cheaper than drive train and I never go much past 5k on oil changes because good oil and filters are cheaper than engines. Probably not an efficient viewpoint but it has worked for me for a lot of years. 

Going back to your point about good oil and TDI's I bought the 01 last year with 230k on it. I didn't know when the last timing belt service was so i changed the TB/WP etc etc. When I took the cam cover off, I was amazed at how clean it was. I have a photo somewhere that I took because I couldn't believe it. I know from the Carfax that the car had dealer maintenance down in Florida but the entire engine was dry and clean compared to my 99.5 with 100k less miles and no belly pan so I suspect the engine may have been changed, but I'll never really know. 

I do read up on oils so I know synthetic has evolved into meaning different things to different companies. Thanks.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

888 said:


> No disrespect intended but I could never let engine oil go much over 5k before changing it. That goes for the Dexos blend for sure. My dad beat 3k intervals into me growing up on Dino oil so 5k is a big concession. I never overload my Cummins because diesel is cheaper than drive train and I never go much past 5k on oil changes because good oil and filters are cheaper than engines. Probably not an efficient viewpoint but it has worked for me for a lot of years.
> 
> Going back to your point about good oil and TDI's I bought the 01 last year with 230k on it. I didn't know when the last timing belt service was so i changed the TB/WP etc etc. When I took the cam cover off, I was amazed at how clean it was. I have a photo somewhere that I took because I couldn't believe it. I know from the Carfax that the car had dealer maintenance down in Florida but the entire engine was dry and clean compared to my 99.5 with 100k less miles and no belly pan so I suspect the engine may have been changed, but I'll never really know.
> 
> I do read up on oils so I know synthetic has evolved into meaning different things to different companies. Thanks.


You know who beat 3k intervals into your dad? Jiffy Lube. Owned by Pennzoil, owned by Shell oil. "3000 miles for a well lubed machine."

My friend Brian owned a Jetta TDI and ran AMSOIL 5w-40 diesel oil at 15-25k mile intervals. Top end was pristine when he sold it with around 525k miles, still on the original turbo. 
Check out my Titan Synthetics part of the forum. I have a thread in there listing oil drain intervals for cars in the UK. 10,000-20,000 miles on a change of oil is the norm. Granted, they also have far better oil quality than we get from the big oil conglomerates (Shell, Exxon-Mobil, Texaco) here in the US. That's why I push for AMSOIL and European brands; they didn't sell out at the consumer's expense. 

The only real detriment to frequent oil changes is excessive burning of phosphorous, which damages catalytic converters. The EPA's solution in the past was not to improve oil quality so we go 2x the interval, but to halve the amount of Zinc and Phosphorous as we were using before. Those elements found in anti-wear and extreme pressure additives, which had to be replaced with more expensive Boron and Molybdenum. You're still burning up phosphorous on every fresh oil change though. Extend the intervals and you extend catalytic converter life. The other detriment is of course cost.

I don't mind teaching people how and why extended drains are possible. Heck, if I didn't know what I know now, I too would be running 3k-5k intervals. 

Sent from mobile.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You know who beat 3k intervals into your dad? Jiffy Lube. Owned by Pennzoil, owned by Shell oil. "3000 miles for a well lubed machine."
> 
> My friend Brian owned a Jetta TDI and ran AMSOIL 5w-40 diesel oil at 15-25k mile intervals. Top end was pristine when he sold it with around 525k miles, still on the original turbo.
> Check out my Titan Synthetics part of the forum. I have a thread in there listing oil drain intervals for cars in the UK. 10,000-20,000 miles on a change of oil is the norm. Granted, they also have far better oil quality than we get from the big oil conglomerates (Shell, Exxon-Mobil, Texaco) here in the US. That's why I push for AMSOIL and European brands; they didn't sell out at the consumer's expense.
> ...


Amen! Xtreme

888,

Your own vw manual specifies 10k intervals using the standard Castrol Synthetic at the dealer. Go to tdiclub.com and there are hundreds of used oil analysis samples showing 10k intervals to be perfect.

if you use bypass filtration then by God way way more is possible!

if you don't believe it, send it off to blackstone for analysis. I did that with my girlfriends civic running wally world Mobil 1 in a 3.8qt sump and it came back with remaining tbn and acceptable wear numbers. Awesome. Put my mind at ease for the future of once a year oil changes and not spending a fortune on oil to do it.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I know somebody who might be doing a 12K+ mile oil change interval in a Cruze Diesel. I think they are going to send the oil to Blackstone for analysis. If they do, I will get the info from them and post here.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> I know somebody who might be doing a 12K+ mile oil change interval in a Cruze Diesel. I think they are going to send the oil to Blackstone for analysis. If they do, I will get the info from them and post here.


That would be great, whoever gets the first uoa back should start an official thread that is stickied so we can keep them all organized together for reference.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> That would be great, whoever gets the first uoa back should start an official thread that is stickied so we can keep them all organized together for reference.


I already have a UOA from Tomko posted in the Power train section of the forum. Look for the tiered oils list thread. 

Sent from mobile.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I already have a UOA from Tomko posted in the Power train section of the forum. Look for the tiered oils list thread.
> 
> Sent from mobile.


Nice, I'll try to find it. I just have the diesel section of the board bookmarked and pay zero attention to any other forums.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You know who beat 3k intervals into your dad? Jiffy Lube. Owned by Pennzoil, owned by Shell oil. "3000 miles for a well lubed machine."
> 
> I don't mind teaching people how and why extended drains are possible. Heck, if I didn't know what I know now, I too would be running 3k-5k intervals.
> 
> Sent from mobile.


No, actually what taught him was sludge developing in his 1972 Econoline that killed the 289 V8 at a relatively low mileage. I remember him changing the engine out in the back yard when I was younger. He was an engineer, said the engine issues were directly related to oil change frequency and he was on the 3k program ever afterwards, always saying that oil and filters were cheaper than engines. 

Knowing what I know now, I suspect the pickup screen in the pan clogged but never asked. He drove later US made vehicles 200k+ without engine issues from then on. I've done the same since I started driving back in 1976 and have never lost an engine, either. I tend to go with what I know has worked for me in the past. 

How often does the filter get changed on those extended intervals? 5k? 

I don't check any other sections of this site other than this one so I'll have a look at the data you recommend, and I appreciate the information. 

I like to take all the covers etc off and check the engine for leaks/worn hoses etc anyway and 10k to 20k is too long between those inspections to suit me. It's nice to know that I probably have some latitude on the 5k interval, considering I'm using US based Shell Rotella 5w40 which sounds like it is inferior to the oils you mention above.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

I did my own experiment back in 1998 I bought a brand new Pontiac Grand Am. Put in only the cheapest oil I could find at the Walmart and changed it as soon as I could after 10,000 miles. 289,000 miles later after my Son had it for a few years the car hit its final solid object and went to the scrap yard with a fine running engine. Don't know how much longer it could have gone. Since then I never go less than 10,000 miles between oil changes.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

888 said:


> No, actually what taught him was sludge developing in his 1972 Econoline that killed the 289 V8 at a relatively low mileage. I remember him changing the engine out in the back yard when I was younger. He was an engineer, said the engine issues were directly related to oil change frequency and he was on the 3k program ever afterwards, always saying that oil and filters were cheaper than engines.
> 
> Knowing what I know now, I suspect the pickup screen in the pan clogged but never asked. He drove later US made vehicles 200k+ without engine issues from then on. I've done the same since I started driving back in 1976 and have never lost an engine, either. I tend to go with what I know has worked for me in the past.
> 
> ...


Man, that's extreme. And I thought I was anal retentive at times!  

If it makes you happy and sleep better at night, then I can't argue with it!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

888 said:


> No, actually what taught him was sludge developing in his 1972 Econoline that killed the 289 V8 at a relatively low mileage. I remember him changing the engine out in the back yard when I was younger. He was an engineer, said the engine issues were directly related to oil change frequency and he was on the 3k program ever afterwards, always saying that oil and filters were cheaper than engines.
> 
> Knowing what I know now, I suspect the pickup screen in the pan clogged but never asked. He drove later US made vehicles 200k+ without engine issues from then on. I've done the same since I started driving back in 1976 and have never lost an engine, either. I tend to go with what I know has worked for me in the past.
> 
> ...


I cannot comment much further as I don't know what oil he used. However, the truth of the matter is that there is a definite science to oil drain intervals when the engine is properly maintained. By properly, I refer to a few factors such as the quality of the oil, the duration of the oil in time as well as miles, the maintenance of the PCV system, the quality of the filtration, and so forth. Here is a list of oil drain intervals recommended in vehicles commonly purchased in the UK, for comparison purposes. Note here that the UK has vastly better oil quality than we do here in the US. 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/113-titan-synthetics/48401-scared-15-000-25-000-mile-oil-change.html

Oil sludges for a few reasons. First is the reduction of TBN below an allowable limit. This would indicate inferior detergent/dispersant quantities in the oil when it started out. It is certainly possible that he used some pretty cheap oils that did not contain the necessary detergents to suspend the contaminants. The second is oxidization. Petroleum products oxidize over time. If you keep a car sitting for 6 months with dino oil, you better fill the crank case with an engine flush additive and follow the idling procedure and drain it out before driving it around. The oxidized oil creates a layer of wax on the bottom, which we attribute to sludge. If you were to pull an oil pan off, all you'd find on the bottom of that is sludge. Having said that, AMSOIL performed a field study of Las Vegas taxi cabs where they ran the cabs to ~20,000 mile oil drain intervals for approximately 200,000 miles, then pulled the engine and transmission apart and sent them to an analysis expert to study them and report on the total wear and condition of the components. On a scale of 1-10, those engine parts were all above 9.5, with not even a hint of sludge. I use AMSOIL as an example because they use an especially significant detergent package with a high TBN. 

The quality of an oil filter is also paramount. Avoid FRAM at all costs. Look for good filters such as Purolator, Mobil 1, AMSOIL (Their EA filters are guaranteed for 15k and 25k miles depending on the model), WIX/DANA, and a few others that escape me at the moment. There is also a science behind how a good filter is made, which includes metrics such as inlet hole sizes, drainback valve composition (FRAM are plastic), end cap composition (FRAM are cardboard), bypass valve construction, filter element density and material (AMSIOL EA are nanofiber filters with wire mesh reinforcement), and total filtration capacity. Generally speaking, unless the filter guarantees otherwise, you can expect 7,500-10,000 miles of use out of one. I will be replacing mine at 7,500 miles and going 15k miles on the oil. 



Scott M. said:


> I did my own experiment back in 1998 I bought a brand new Pontiac Grand Am. Put in only the cheapest oil I could find at the Walmart and changed it as soon as I could after 10,000 miles. 289,000 miles later after my Son had it for a few years the car hit its final solid object and went to the scrap yard with a fine running engine. Don't know how much longer it could have gone. Since then I never go less than 10,000 miles between oil changes.


I will note that some engines are more sensitive to those oil changes than others. Improper lubrication can cause excessive wear of a timing chain, for example, so there are some cars you don't want to take chances with. By chances I mean uninformed extended drain intervals beyond what the oil maker recommends. I would have liked to see the TBN numbers for that oil after the 10k intervals, but that's too late now. 

All that said, I personally believe in the value of proper maintenance, but in cost savings and in worry-free operation. I sincerely believe that a very high quality true synthetic oil will go a long way toward ensuring trouble-free operation. I have a friend who owns a Cruze ECO that traded in a used Jetta TDI with over 525k miles on it, original turbo, always using a true synthetic oil, and no mechanical problems to speak of. As if the mileage wasn't enough of a significance, this was also on an engine that reported common camshaft wear after ~300,000 miles. His technician, believing AMSOIL was "snake oil," chalked it up to pure luck that his camshaft looked brand new. 

I will not speak badly about another oil unless there is reason to do so, and I will not be as ignorant as to state that you will only get these results with AMSOIL, but I will say that our vehicles are perfectly capable of exceeding 10,000 miles with a good oil and that proper maintenance will allow the car to last as long as you can keep the rust off of it.


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## DrVette (Dec 6, 2011)

My very favorite Diesel Oil additive is *"Pro-Blend Street Formula"*.
When added to a diesel, it produces some white smoke for a mile or and then impregnates into the metal.
My experience, It actually does what it says.

"Lowers Oil Temperature"
"Eliminates Oil Foaming"
"Eliminates Galling, Scuffing"
"Reduces Valvetrain drag"
"Reduces engine knock up to 50%" 

My Buick 5.7 was so quiet that everyone said it was the quietest diesel engine they'd ever heard..
Pro Blend was originally designed to eliminate "black death" in Nitromethane drag racing engines. 

here's the company info;

*PRO BLEND MOTOR SPORTS
121 Maplewood Drive
Lexington
SC 29073-7398
Phone: (803) 951-3843*

*you can order it at Parr Automotive for $11.95,*
1-800-654-6779 
Pro Blend Additives

*Note*
Before using ANY non-GM recommended additives, do your research first.

Best of Luck


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

DrVette said:


> My very favorite Diesel Oil additive is *"Pro-Blend Street Formula"*.
> When added to a diesel, it produces some white smoke for a mile or and then impregnates into the metal.
> My experience, It actually does what it says.
> 
> ...


Sounds like an advertisement?

It will be a cold day in **** before I add anything to highly advanced modern motor oil. These aren't 1978 Buick 5.7's we're talking about here.

The same logic applies to doing 3-5k Oil changes. It's not 1978 anymore.


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## DrVette (Dec 6, 2011)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Sounds like an advertisement?
> 
> It will be a cold day in **** before I add anything to highly advanced modern motor oil. These aren't 1978 Buick 5.7's we're talking about here.
> 
> The same logic applies to doing 3-5k Oil changes. It's not 1978 anymore.


You should read some of my other postings before commenting like an azzhole!
AND "if" you knew anything about old crappy 5.7 diesels you'd realize that if something made one better, it was a miracle.

No advertisement, only a testimonial,


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

DrVette said:


> You should read some of my other postings before commenting like an azzhole!
> AND "if" you knew anything about old crappy 5.7 diesels you'd realize that if something made one better, it was a miracle.
> 
> No advertisement, only a testimonial,


Quit the name calling. I won't ask a second time. 

He is right, however. Having studied oil additives and base stocks, I can honestly say that what was relevant with your old motors and old oils is no longer relevant with newer oils and engines. The days of Group 1 conventional oils are long over, and the days of Group 2 conventional oils are quickly coming to an end. "Group 2.5" (synthetic blends) and Group 3 (petroleum-based "synthetics") are readily available, inexpensive, and proven in the US. Group 4/5 oils are proven in all of Europe. These oils are formulated with specific additives at specific amounts, either due to cost or due to performance required. We are not driving 5.7 diesels here; we are driving 2.0L Turbo diesel engines, 1.4L Turbo gas engines, and 1.8L gas engines. We no longer build engines by picking pistons out of a "small, medium, or large" bin and using the one that fits best; we build engines by making the pistons fit perfectly.

Do not add any additives to modern synthetics, whether petroleum-based group 3 synthetics or true group 4/5 synthetics. Not only will you void any warranty and liability provided by the manufacturer of that oil, but you will in many ways compromise the intended formulation. You should not be purchasing a crappy oil to add an additive to. You should be purchasing a good oil from the start and be researching its composition and formulation if you wish to find an improved alternative.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Man, that's extreme. And I thought I was anal retentive at times!
> 
> If it makes you happy and sleep better at night, then I can't argue with it!


Well, I guess it probably is a little AR but I've occasionally caught stuff that would have been pretty bad if left to go another 5k miles. The EGR valve on one of my TDI's clogged up and started spewing oil. I couldn't really tell because it's sort of hidden by the upper engine cover and most of the leakage ended up soaking into the insulation on the belly pan (explained earlier). That's a problem because the oil from the EGR ends up inside the timing belt cover and eventually eats the belt so while I caught the level dropping anyway via checking the oil, I didn't realize where it was going. 

Same AR thing goes for the timing belt kits. There are 100k mile kits and 60k mile kits, the recommended interval is 60k miles on a TDI TB belt. All the 100k mile kit does is give me larger diameter bearings on all of the rollers, everything else is the same, and the belt tensioner usually craps out around 60k anyway so that's when the belt should be changed to be safe. I buy the 100k mile kits because changing the TB on that car can be a serious pain (especially when the motor mount falls out and TDI people know what I mean) and I would be really pissed if one of those roller bearings gave way before the tensioner and I didn't spend the extra $40 or whatever for the larger bearing roller kit. 

It's **** being me, I tell ya but the guys on my VW site know when I sell a car they don't have to worry about buying it.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I cannot comment much further as I don't know what oil he used.
> The quality of an oil filter is also paramount. Avoid FRAM at all costs. Look for good filters such as Purolator, Mobil 1, AMSOIL (Their EA filters are guaranteed for 15k and 25k miles depending on the model), WIX/DANA, and a few others that escape me at the moment. There is also a science behind how a good filter is made, which includes metrics such as inlet hole sizes, drainback valve composition (FRAM are plastic), end cap composition (FRAM are cardboard), bypass valve construction, filter element density and material (AMSIOL EA are nanofiber filters with wire mesh reinforcement), and total filtration capacity. Generally speaking, unless the filter guarantees otherwise, you can expect 7,500-10,000 miles of use out of one. I will be replacing mine at 7,500 miles and going 15k miles on the oil.


Me either on the oil but I expect he used Quaker State because I recall seeing some case boxes sitting around and being an engineer, he read the manual because we bought the Econoline new for his business. Back in that era, a Fram actually was considered a good filter but I am aware that has changed drastically. It was used daily and driven fairly long distances rather than short trips, so I've always been puzzled by what happened but again never found out and he's no longer around to ask. 

Agreed on the filters, I read the study with the dissected filters (Bob's oil guy site?). I use OEM Mann or Mahles on the TDI's, Fleetguards on the Cummins, and Wix on everything else. I just discovered that Fleetguards are now made in Mexico, BTW. 

I am sure you are probably right and obviously more learned on the subject than I am but I'm 50+ years old and this sort of falls into the "old dog/new trick" category. I'll probably stay with what has worked for me and if I'm lighting a little money on fire to sleep better at night, that's probably good because I would have spent it on beer anyway.


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## Cruze2.0Diesel (Jun 30, 2013)

888 - xtreme is right, you can go a lot longer without changing the oil now then you could in 72, we have a lot less blowby getting past the pistons because they fit much tighter in the cylinders, and we have a much better burn inside the cylinder as we run the proper air/fuel mixture under all operating conditions, and we have much better oil. He did the right thing back in 72, but this is a completely different engine from that 289....not that I wouldn't snag one up and run the pizz out of it.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

DrVette said:


> You should read some of my other postings before commenting like an azzhole!
> AND "if" you knew anything about old crappy 5.7 diesels you'd realize that if something made one better, it was a miracle.
> 
> No advertisement, only a testimonial,


Sorry I'm a bit brash at times, I say what I'm thinking and mean what I say. Life's too short to be politically correct. If you show me any evidence that oil additives can be beneficial to a common engine with modern motor oil in it that isn't failing on it's way out, I'm all ears and will reconsider my brash statement.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Sorry I'm a bit brash at times, I say what I'm thinking and mean what I say. Life's too short to be politically correct. If you show me any evidence that oil additives can be beneficial to a common engine with modern motor oil in it that isn't failing on it's way out, I'm all ears and will reconsider my brash statement.


Being brash isn't a violation of forum rules and isn't a blatant disrespect. In fact, I encourage people to be honest. We learn better that way and weed out ignorance. 

I'd like to see the chemical composition of these additives. Too much additive IS a bad thing, and some modern oils are already pretty packed with additive. 

Sent from mobile.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I once ran 20K miles on my '12 Civic and had the oil tested afterwards (took me 3.5 months to drive that far). It still had about 1/2 life left in it. Engine was squeaky clean inside too. I know that's a different animal than the CTD, but that was my little experiment.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

I have used the Stanadyne lubricity formula in the fuel but I have no proof that it works. When you pour 4 ounces of something into 30 gallons of something else it disappears really quickly. Hard to figure how 4 ounces can do any significant lubrication but maybe it does. I am not a chemist, just a little skeptical sometimes. I think 2 cycle oil is probably just as good.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Scott M. said:


> I have used the Stanadyne lubricity formula in the fuel but I have no proof that it works. When you pour 4 ounces of something into 30 gallons of something else it disappears really quickly. Hard to figure how 4 ounces can do any significant lubrication but maybe it does. I am not a chemist, just a little skeptical sometimes. I think 2 cycle oil is probably just as good.


Compare to the parts per million of sulfur in low sulfur diesel and ultra low sulfur diesel. That sulfur had a lubricating benefit to the oil. We're now at what...15 parts per million? Just a little additive will go a long way in keeping those injectors from clogging up and that pump from wearing out.

Sent from mobile.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

Fuel and oil chemistry is very similar to swimming pool chemistry, sometimes you chuck in a bucket full of this, sometimes a cup full of that.

What seems like a very small amount can have quite a distinct effect!


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

good points. the Lubricity formula is about the same price as the 2 cycle oil and it claims to be cool with DPF's so that's my recommendation. Its a good price compared to some of the other stuff out there. It was originally designed for dry fuels such as diesel #1,kerosene and Jet fuel.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Scott M. said:


> good points. the Lubricity formula is about the same price as the 2 cycle oil and it claims to be cool with DPF's so that's my recommendation. Its a good price compared to some of the other stuff out there. It was originally designed for dry fuels such as diesel #1,kerosene and Jet fuel.


There is a guy over at tdiclub running 2 stroke and monitoring his ash load. I'm not going to but it's cool to watch the results.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Scott M. said:


> good points. the Lubricity formula is about the same price as the 2 cycle oil and it claims to be cool with DPF's so that's my recommendation. Its a good price compared to some of the other stuff out there. It was originally designed for dry fuels such as diesel #1,kerosene and Jet fuel.


Also, if you have a bio blend of 2% or more lubricity isn't a concern.


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## TD_Cruze (Jan 15, 2014)

I would be interested in trying the AmsOil Cold Flow next winter. Hey Xtreme, can you give a review on it?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

TD_Cruze said:


> I would be interested in trying the AmsOil Cold Flow next winter. Hey Xtreme, can you give a review on it?


It cures AIDS 

amsoil makes quality products


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

TD_Cruze said:


> I would be interested in trying the AmsOil Cold Flow next winter. Hey Xtreme, can you give a review on it?


Luigi has a couple of bottles. I'm sure he'll review them shortly as it is supposed to get cold agian. 



KpaxFAQ said:


> It cures AIDS
> 
> amsoil makes quality products


+1

Have you seen my signature lately? For those of you who are on mobile, it says:

*"I got stung by a bee. I smeared a little AMSOIL on it, and by the next morning it had completely healed." - Vincent Faltis*


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## Nuke108 (Sep 1, 2014)

boraz said:


> factory intervals for trucks are ~30,000 miles


I have always been a fan of synthetic oils in every vehicle I've ever owned. This is the first new vehicle I've ever owned and the dealer has agreed to change my oil because I've convinced them it is contaminated with diesel fuel. They informed me that the dexos 2 is actually a synthetic blend and could opt for them to put fully synthetic in and I can pay the difference or I can provide my own also.What brand of synthetic oil would you recommend I use? I prefer to break this engine in exclusively with fully synthetic!


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Nuke108 said:


> I have always been a fan of synthetic oils in every vehicle I've ever owned. This is the first new vehicle I've ever owned and the dealer has agreed to change my oil because I've convinced them it is contaminated with diesel fuel. They informed me that the dexos 2 is actually a synthetic blend and could opt for them to put fully synthetic in and I can pay the difference or I can provide my own also.What brand of synthetic oil would you recommend I use? I prefer to break this engine in exclusively with fully synthetic!


ive never used synthetic and dont ever plan to...I cant advise you


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nuke108 said:


> I have always been a fan of synthetic oils in every vehicle I've ever owned. This is the first new vehicle I've ever owned and the dealer has agreed to change my oil because I've convinced them it is contaminated with diesel fuel. They informed me that the dexos 2 is actually a synthetic blend and could opt for them to put fully synthetic in and I can pay the difference or I can provide my own also.What brand of synthetic oil would you recommend I use? I prefer to break this engine in exclusively with fully synthetic!


Your best bet will be Mobil 1 ESP if you want to stay within OE viscosity specs.


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## nebojsa (Jan 3, 2011)

When i had my 1998 VW TDI i used Mobil Delvac1 0w40 or 5w40 synthetic oil.I also used a fuel additive year round

Performance Formula - Stanadyne

When i got rid of the VW... the body fell apart... i had close to 300.000 miles on it. Besides changing the glow plugs, never ha any engine problems and still all original parts.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I bought the power service in the grey bottle, used it maybe twice and noticed no difference so it's sitting in my closet. Maybe I'll use it when I get a little higher in the mileage than 6k miles


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I use Total Quartz INEO 5W30. You can see my high mile Blackstone test reports in this forum. Excellent Dexos2 oil.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> I use Total Quartz INEO 5W30. You can see my high mile Blackstone test reports in this forum. Excellent Dexos2 oil.


This is what I run as well.


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## jalaner (Dec 28, 2013)

The EPA mandate for ULSD fuel(<15 ppm sulfur) reduced the lubricity and slightly increased the cost of the fuel but is much more of a benefit than a problem. This aligns the US with a worldwide effort to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions. SO2 reacts with H2O to produce sulfuric acid (H2SO4). These corrosive materials damage health and property. Acid rain has been greatly reduced. Without this action the CTD engine would not have been available in the US since the engine would have to be redesigned to operate on LSD fuel (<500 ppm sulfur). The reduced lubricity was quickly recognized and addressed by a new ASTM D975 standard that assures adequate lubricity. The CTD was designed for this fuel and should not require additives.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jalaner said:


> The EPA mandate for ULSD fuel(<15 ppm sulfur) reduced the lubricity and slightly increased the cost of the fuel but is much more of a benefit than a problem. This aligns the US with a worldwide effort to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions. SO2 reacts with H2O to produce sulfuric acid (H2SO4). These corrosive materials damage health and property. Acid rain has been greatly reduced. Without this action the CTD engine would not have been available in the US since the engine would have to be redesigned to operate on LSD fuel (<500 ppm sulfur). The reduced lubricity was quickly recognized and addressed by a new ASTM D975 standard that assures adequate lubricity. The CTD was designed for this fuel and should not require additives.


Let's keep the politics of it in the politics and religion section, shall we?

Sure, you can say the engine can use the fuel just fine, but owners of late model diesel pickup trucks who have to replace injectors at 200k-250k would claim otherwise. They used to run a million miles without a problem. I guess you can chalk that up to the "price we pay" for reducing emissions. 

You know, you can buy 2-3 55 gallon drums of fuel additive for the price of new injectors on a diesel truck...


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

I use the Stanadyne additive religiously in my Power Stroke 7.3, I would not put it in my CTD. Additives are NOT recommend or required in the Cruze Diesel. As far as oil, Mobil 1 5-30w ESP (emission system protection) is what I've been using. Available on line for reasonable cost or at Pep Boys etc for ureasonable cost. Not sure why anyone would think a higher viscosity oil would be better as in 15 -40w I run in my PS, I for one would NOT use that grade, it not recommended, its too thick for cold starts and not what the manufacture specifies. ****, I run straight 50w in my Harley, I wouldn't put it in a modern engine!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

warloc said:


> I use the Stanadyne additive religiously in my Power Stroke 7.3, I would not put it in my CTD. Additives are NOT recommend or required in the Cruze Diesel. As far as oil, Mobil 1 5-30w ESP (emission system protection) is what I've been using. Available on line for reasonable cost or at Pep Boys etc for ureasonable cost. Not sure why anyone would think a higher viscosity oil would be better as in 15 -40w I run in my PS, I for one would NOT use that grade, it not recommended, its too thick for cold starts and not what the manufacture specifies. ****, I run straight 50w in my Harley, I wouldn't put it in a modern engine!


It is usually beneficial to at least try to understand why the manufacturer makes certain recommendations. 

For example, this same 2.0L diesel overseas has the option of running a 40 weight oil. Why don't we have that option? Why do we have a 5W-30 viscosity on a dexos2 specification where a 5W-40 has been made by several companies that meets that specification for years now?

CAFE. GM knows that running one viscosity range up will reduce fuel economy by a fraction of a mile per gallon and they need to do everything they can to appease the feds.

As for additives, does the owner's manual specifically recommend against injector cleaning fuel additives?


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