# Why you shouldn't install HID "kits"



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Might be worth mentioning that the only pictures I've seen that so much as hint at there being no glare were taken with an incorrect exposure with the camera. If you want to prove me wrong, please get a camera with which you can specify exposure, then take a picture with the factory halogens and again with the HID kit installed and compare the difference. Only then will you be able to compare light output and glare validly.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

im kinda of sick of hids they look cool,but really when you have fogs you look like a cruising spaceship with all your hids,and not to mention the cluster you have of ballast location and the drls not having enough power to power them up there just a mistake for any car,keep the hids to the offroad cars where they actually need to see out far


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> im kinda of sick of hids they look cool,but really when you have fogs you look like a cruising spaceship with all your hids,and not to mention the cluster you have of ballast location and the drls not having enough power to power them up there just a mistake for any car,keep the hids to the offroad cars where they actually need to see out far


Yea I took mine off and put sylavnias back in 

h3llion


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

Great post, lots of good general info..... but IMO it doesn't apply to the Cruze. The flaw here is that you're speaking from general knowledge (from reading your other posts around here i know you have a well above average automotive knowledge) which is just that.... general. What i mean by that is that its not specific to the Cruze which i don't believe you have personal experiance with as far as HID lighting in OEM housings. Since you're not speaking from personal experiance with the Cruze, you're really just guessing. It's an edjucated guess, i'll give you that but its still a guess.

The fact is, most cars have headlights that refract light in the manner you described above trying to cover the most area it can with every last lumen....but not all cars. It seems that more and more new headlight housing designs have improved the way they focus light, this is what made me decide to take a gamble and buy a HID kit for my Cruze.

My findings are that the Cruze happens to have a great headlight housing design that even with much brighter HID lights installed still manages to focus the light to the road without enough glare to blind or upset oncoming traffic. I have had 5000K HID headlights and 5000K HID fog lights on my Cruze for a year now and asked for numerous other opinions from others i've followed at night or just saw me driving by, they all agree there is no obnoxious glare from them.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Skilz10179 said:


> Great post, lots of good general info..... but IMO it doesn't apply to the Cruze. The flaw here is that you're speaking from general knowledge (from reading your other posts around here i know you have a well above average automotive knowledge) which is just that.... general. What i mean by that is that its not specific to the Cruze which i don't believe you have personal experiance with as far as HID lighting in OEM housings. Since you're not speaking from personal experiance with the Cruze, you're really just guessing. It's an edjucated guess, i'll give you that but its still a guess.
> 
> The fact is, most cars have headlights that refract light in the manner you described above trying to cover the most area it can with every last lumen....but not all cars. It seems that more and more new headlight housing designs have improved the way they focus light, this is what made me decide to take a gamble and buy a HID kit for my Cruze.
> 
> My findings are that the Cruze happens to have a great headlight housing design that even with much brighter HID lights installed still manages to focus the light to the road without enough glare to blind or upset oncoming traffic. I have had 5000K HID headlights and 5000K HID fog lights on my Cruze for a year now and asked for numerous other opinions from others i've followed at night or just saw me driving by, they all agree there is no obnoxious glare from them.


I don't think there's one single thing that pisses me off more than when someone is coming in my direction with HID fog lights on. I sincerely hope you don't use those for daily driving and that you use them only when fog lights are required. You're in for one colossal lawsuit should anyone ever crash into you while you have those lights on. I assume you know why doing so is dangerous. When I first got the Cruze, I drove around with fog lights on just for kicks and I don't have enough fingers to count how many oncoming drivers gave me high beams before I flat out stopped using them. I thought it was pretty cool; they didn't. 

What experience I do have with the Cruze is from upgrading the factory wiring harness. 2500-3000 miles of driving with the factory wiring harness, adjusted at the exact same position (just a hair below the horizon), and the moment I improve the lighting, I get high beamed in the face 4 times in driving only 10 miles. Sure, this is just my experience, and while how many times oncoming drivers feel the need to retaliate to your bright lights isn't an indicator that they're improperly aimed or excessively glaring, it should at least make you think that you're causing some degree of discomfort. People react to lighting differently. My eyes are amazing; I have better than 20/20 vision, but my mother in law will quite literally be blind for the few seconds after someone with improperly aimed HIDs passes by her. You have to remember that not everyone on the road has great vision or can tolerate those changes in light as quickly or easily. 

I will agree that the Cruze has a great cut-off from the factory, but I still don't think it's suitable for daily HID use. I am indeed generalizing, but I'm not pulling this out of my ass I invite you to get a good camera and take two identical pictures with the same shutter speed both with factory halogens and with HIDs while pointing at a wall with absolutely no other ambient light pollution. I'll pinpoint exactly where the problematic area is. If I can find the time, I'll even do it myself with my wife's Nikon D60 as the dispersion pattern should be similar.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Tltr

You see the problem with me and long threads is that ooh look Butterfly


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I decided a quick and very simple illustration would help me make my point. 

This picture was taken with my wife's Nikon DSLR. Exposure was set manually to match what my eyes were seeing as closely as possible. I backed the car up and put a set of vintage golf clubs in front of the left headlight. This demonstration is designed to show how much ambient light actually shines above the cutoff of the Cruze headlight housing with DSLR, not a phone camera or a point and shoot with a tiny lens. 

If the cutout was similar to that of a projector lens as would be required for an HID bulb, there would be little glare to create a shadow above the cutoff. Unfortunately, this isn't the case. 

You may not see it in your car because your eyes have adjusted to the brighter light, but the glare is certainly there. Scroll back up to see what a projector headlight looks like in comparison.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

Thank you. I freaking hate HIDs. I'm sure they're great if you're the one using them. But for someone like me with astigmatism who is already sensitive to bright lights at night, HIDs cause me serious eye strain and nearly blind me. Now maybe some will say "I have an astigmatism and I don't have a problem", well, everyone's different.

I have a hard time being in the left lane of a road without a barrier at night because so many ******* have HIDs or even run around with their brights on. Thanks jackass. I'm sure you see great, but you'll regret it when one day I'm blinded or just snap and run into your car.


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## SkullCruzeRS (Nov 3, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> What experience I do have with the Cruze is from upgrading the factory wiring harness. 2500-3000 miles of driving with the factory wiring harness, adjusted at the exact same position (just a hair below the horizon), and the moment I improve the lighting, I get high beamed in the face 4 times in driving only 10 miles. Sure, this is just my experience, and while how many times oncoming drivers feel the need to retaliate to your bright lights isn't an indicator that they're improperly aimed or excessively glaring, it should at least make you think that you're causing some degree of discomfort. People react to lighting differently. My eyes are amazing; I have better than 20/20 vision, but my mother in law will quite literally be blind for the few seconds after someone with improperly aimed HIDs passes by her. You have to remember that not everyone on the road has great vision or can tolerate those changes in light as quickly or easily.


So after you did the harness upgrade at what height did you adjust your headlights to? And I have heard a couple ways on adjusting headlights. One being just pull up to a wall measure from the ground to the middle of the headlight and then measure that on the wall and adjust accordingly. And others saying pull back 25 feet from the wall and adjust the headlights to be up the wall 23 to 24 inches. What is the best way to do this?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

SkullCruzeRS said:


> So after you did the harness upgrade at what height did you adjust your headlights to? And I have heard a couple ways on adjusting headlights. One being just pull up to a wall measure from the ground to the middle of the headlight and then measure that on the wall and adjust accordingly. And others saying pull back 25 feet from the wall and adjust the headlights to be up the wall 23 to 24 inches. What is the best way to do this?


I drove around at night and adjusted them so that the very top of the cutoff was a hair under the horizon. It was a bit of trial and error and I adjusted them a little bit at a time, but eventually I got it right. You don't want them too low or you won't see far enough, but you don't want them too high or you'll blind people too easily.


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

There is nothing more annoying, than driving at night, listening to some chill music, all relaxed and happy cause your getting home...

Then some guy behind you, or infront of BLINDS you with his HID's. Which makes me wish i was at that moment a cop and give him a ticket or i had a BIG F350 and ram his car. Then i switch my radio station to Octane and rock out with heavy rock.

Good information sir thanks!


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## TKECruze (Oct 23, 2011)

ok i understand everyones frustration, but whats the point to making a thread for this. i understand how everyone feels and trust me i hate it too. i hate seeing bright a** lights in my rearview blinding the **** out of me and from the opposite lane coming at me too. with that said, i decided to put HIDs on my car. my gf has driven my car numerous times and i have driven hers. she's driven behind me and even the opposite way and the I'm not blinded by my lights. i have 6000k in my car. yes if i were to have been blinded i would have removed them but they seem fine. I've nvr been flashed from other vehicles. no offense to anyone but if someone is gonna put HIDs let em do it. if they get sued or ticketed so be it. just my 0.02. again hope i don't offend anyone.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

TKECruze said:


> ok i understand everyones frustration, but whats the point to making a thread for this. i understand how everyone feels and trust me i hate it too. i hate seeing bright a** lights in my rearview blinding the **** out of me and from the opposite lane coming at me too. with that said, i decided to put HIDs on my car. my gf has driven my car numerous times and i have driven hers. she's driven behind me and even the opposite way and the I'm not blinded by my lights. i have 6000k in my car. yes if i were to have been blinded i would have removed them but they seem fine. I've nvr been flashed from other vehicles. no offense to anyone but if someone is gonna put HIDs let em do it. if they get sued or ticketed so be it. just my 0.02. again hope i don't offend anyone.


Just because you or your girlfriend are not blinded by your lights, doesn't mean it's not uncomfortable or blinding to other drivers. As I said before quite clearly, everyone's eyes are different, and some people have much more sensitive eyes than others, especially older people. The truth is that you don't understand everyone's frustration because you insist that your HIDs are just fine. Just because you've never been flashed with a high beam doesn't mean your lights aren't too bright. 

If someone's going to install HIDs, they are more than welcome to do so, but I'll do my part in telling people why they shouldn't. We all have a responsibility to provide good, valid, and complete information, and this is just part of that responsibility.

If anyone wants to improve their lighting legally and correctly without having to retrofit a Projector lens, please see the link in my signature on upgrading the headlight wiring harness.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

I feel you x but I think you're swimming uphill on this one. Gotta commend you for trying though. Would be cool if you joined older civic, focus (older cars in general) and lifted truck sites just to post this thread. They are the ones blinding everyone. 

I for one will be looking into a retro fit fairly soon. Makes me jealous driving the lady's mdx. Spend more time watching the cut off than the road sometimes lol


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Mick said:


> I feel you x but I think you're swimming uphill on this one. Gotta commend you for trying though. Would be cool if you joined older civic, focus (older cars in general) and lifted truck sites just to post this thread. They are the ones blinding everyone.
> 
> I for one will be looking into a retro fit fairly soon. Makes me jealous driving the lady's mdx. Spend more time watching the cut off than the road sometimes lol


I know I can't stop people. If someone's set on buying an HID kit and slapping it in their car despite what I've said here, it's all on their conscience, but if I can at least discourage them and make them think twice about it, that will be enough. People eventually learn, and I'm talking about myself too. 

Lifted trucks are the worst people who should be installing HID kits. I've gotten to the point where I'm tempted to start writing down license plate numbers and calling the cops. I can deal with a few cars with HID kits in their housings because *my *eyes aren't that that bad but some of those lifted trucks with HID low beams and fogs are WAY too much.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

I just put XtraVision bulbs in my car and they are fine for my needs.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Seriously, when they are behind you the lights are directly pointed into your rear windshield. I usually turn on my windshield sprayer when they are following close. Gets them to pass me every time.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Any really obnoxious folks get the high beams. After the XV bulbs and the harness, they get the message quickly. 

Luckily on the other forums I've active on, the consensus is toward better halogen bulbs and harnesses instead of plug'n'play HID's. The folks who really want HID's do projector retrofits.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

When I get mine to install, I will measure the halogen beam height at a certain distance from the wall and get the new projectors as close to that as I can.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> When I get mine to install, I will measure the halogen beam height at a certain distance from the wall and get the new projectors as close to that as I can.


Awesome. Are you retrofitting projectors or getting a headlight set that has projectors?


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

Its funny how when someone put HIDs in stock housings with a perfect cutoff you won't accept the good results yet when someone retro fits projectors and hasn't even posted results its "awesome". Like I said, you seem like a pretty smart guy but when you don't have actual real world experience with both of these situations on Cruze headlights, you shouldn't be advising anyone.


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## dragnframe (May 27, 2011)

HID's blind people, tint ruins your view, bigger rims messes up braking, lowering affects handling, blah blah blah. I can't believe this topic came up again. 

The fact that some of you threaten to hit the person or call the cops cracks me up. Why not just ignore the person instead of getting road rage? 

What's the first thing everybody does when a person has HID's or even just the regular hi-beams on? You stare at the light!! Go ahead and laugh because you know its true. This is why it really bothers everybody. Again, just ignore them.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

No I don't stare at the light, I cringe at the light and try to look past it so I don't run into anything.

And larger rims do increase braking distances. You're trying to stop not only more weight but more SPINNING weight. Ever heard of centrifugal force? When you're trying to stop something that even static weighs 30%, 50%, even 100% more what the brakes are designed to handle, your brake distance is going to increase and your pads/rotors aren't going to last as long.

Performance and Wheels Concepts

For bicycles but the masses and speeds are just higher.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Skilz10179 said:


> Its funny how when someone put HIDs in stock housings with a perfect cutoff you won't accept the good results yet when someone retro fits projectors and hasn't even posted results its "awesome". Like I said, you seem like a pretty smart guy but when you don't have actual real world experience with both of these situations on Cruze headlights, you shouldn't be advising anyone.


I thought I made this blatantly obvious with my post below. I haven't seen you respond to that yet. 

Do I need to have experience with something to tell you it won't work? Do I need to drive a Geo Metro to tell you it's slow? Do I need to install a particular Pioneer subwoofer mentioned in the electronics thread to tell you it will sound like garbage? No, I can tell based on the spec sheet it will not suit the guy's purpose because I've worked with enough subwoofers to tell them apart. 

Now, if my headlights create a substantial amount of glare above the cutoff as demonstrated below, then you can bet they'll amplify that glare with HIDs. This isn't rocket science man, you aren't suddenly creating a sharper and more separated cutoff with HIDs than you do with Halogens. Defend your decisions all you want, at the end of the day, you're installing a bulb in a housing for which it wasn't designed and the glare is there whether or not you want to admit it. 

Why do I tell him they're awesome? Because I know for a fact that almost all of these aftermarket projector lenses are designed for HID bulbs and will allow him to more safely use that lighting output. Do I have to use every single projector lens on the market in order to form an educated opinion on them? I can't believe I even have to argue the correct and safe way to install HIDs. Again, this isn't rocket science, see my first post. 



XtremeRevolution said:


> I decided a quick and very simple illustration would help me make my point.
> 
> This picture was taken with my wife's Nikon DSLR. Exposure was set manually to match what my eyes were seeing as closely as possible. I backed the car up and put a set of vintage golf clubs in front of the left headlight. This demonstration is designed to show how much ambient light actually shines above the cutoff of the Cruze headlight housing with DSLR, not a phone camera or a point and shoot with a tiny lens.
> 
> ...





dragnframe said:


> HID's blind people, tint ruins your view, bigger rims messes up braking, lowering affects handling, blah blah blah. I can't believe this topic came up again.
> 
> The fact that some of you threaten to hit the person or call the cops cracks me up. Why not just ignore the person instead of getting road rage?
> 
> What's the first thing everybody does when a person has HID's or even just the regular hi-beams on? You stare at the light!! Go ahead and laugh because you know its true. This is why it really bothers everybody. Again, just ignore them.


Who said anything about road rage? Do you know what road rage is? I don't care what you do with your car as long as it doesn't affect anyone else. Bumping your subs loud at 2 AM and waking up my friend's 6 month old kid falls under that category. Installing 24" rims on your car and reducing your stopping distance so you crash into me when you have to make an emergency braking maneuver falls under that category. Installing HIDs that blind me when I'm tired as **** coming home from a hard day of work falls under that category, and if you're like my buddy who has been fighting an eye infection for the past 2 weeks and is sensitive to severe light changes, if you recognize the problem with installing these HIDs and keep them in there anyway, take a guess as to what that makes you. 

I'll give you some words to choose from: inconsiderate, rude, selfish, careless, and a general *******. If you know your lights are blinding other people, fix it so they don't. 



Beaker said:


> No I don't stare at the light, I cringe at the light and try to look past it so I don't run into anything.
> 
> And larger rims do increase braking distances. You're trying to stop not only more weight but more SPINNING weight. Ever heard of centrifugal force? When you're trying to stop something that even static weighs 30%, 50%, even 100% more what the brakes are designed to handle, your brake distance is going to increase and your pads/rotors aren't going to last as long.
> 
> ...


I do the same, only it gets old after a while and some people go overboard with HID fogs as well as low beams. There's a reason why the packaging says "for off-road use only."


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## garrettb1 (Feb 21, 2012)

Don't have them and won't by them cause I'm cheep. If you think calling the cops is going to get you anywhere your lost. What about cars that have them stock? You think there going to get ticketed? When lights are too bright for your eyes try watching the white line, it helps a lot.


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## dragnframe (May 27, 2011)

Beaker said:


> No I don't stare at the light, I cringe at the light and try to look past it so I don't run into anything.
> 
> And larger rims do increase braking distances. You're trying to stop not only more weight but more SPINNING weight. Ever heard of centrifugal force? When you're trying to stop something that even static weighs 30%, 50%, even 100% more what the brakes are designed to handle, your brake distance is going to increase and your pads/rotors aren't going to last as long.
> 
> ...


Your missing the point of the first part of my post. Its like beating a dead horse. No matter how many times somebody says HID's are illegal or putting those big rims on your car is gonna kill somebody because you couldn't stop, people will still modify their cars. The correct way or not.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

garrettb1 said:


> Don't have them and won't by them cause I'm cheep. If you think calling the cops is going to get you anywhere your lost. What about cars that have them stock? You think there going to get ticketed? When lights are too bright for your eyes try watching the white line, it helps a lot.


The cars that have them stock have them in projector lenses that are designed to cut-off the beam of light so they produce less glare to blind oncoming drivers. Obviously they're not going to get ticketed, but if a cop is having a bad day and he pulls you over for speeding, it wouldn't take much more for him to write you up for the lights. This thread was created for those who are considering installing these HID bulbs in non-projector housings that are _not designed for HID lights_, but Halogens.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dragnframe said:


> Your missing the point of the first part of my post. Its like beating a dead horse. No matter how many times somebody says HID's are illegal or putting those big rims on your car is gonna kill somebody because you couldn't stop, people will still modify their cars. The correct way or not.


Do you think anyone is wasting their time with those people? Assholes will be assholes. They know they're blinding other people and they don't care. If they don't know they're blinding other people, this thread serves to demonstrate otherwise. 

This thread's purpose (which I think I mentioned in the first post) is to inform those who are considering upgrading their lighting.


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## dragnframe (May 27, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Who said anything about road rage? Do you know what road rage is?"


Here ya go



Beaker said:


> I'm sure you see great, but you'll regret it when one day I'm blinded or just snap and run into your car.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dragnframe said:


> Here ya go


Ah. I understood it differently. I read snap as in, blinded and lose control, not blinded and suddenly look like Hades in that Hercules cartoon and swerve into your car.


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## ChevyCruzeLTZ (Apr 7, 2011)

Seems to me if you're blinded by oncoming HID's the problem is your lights are too dim. Installing lights that are brighter than anyone else's should fix this. Personally I'm looking into installing a 25,000,000k HID light bazooka I can use to melt oncoming traffic.


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## Horizon314 (Feb 10, 2012)

I have personally put an HID kit in every one of my vehicles whether it be with the standard halogen housings or projectors. I sprung for the projectors on this car because I had the money after selling my STI but might not have if I didnt have the cash. True assholes will be assholes as I had Lime Green HID's in halogen housings on my STI I just had to make sure I turned the auto aim to the lowest setting not to blind anyone.


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## TacoMEDIC (Mar 10, 2012)

Wow. Clearly a polarizing subject. 

I guess everyone will do what they please.


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## Hatje (Jun 23, 2011)

i have HIDS in my car, so what you dont like dont look at the car!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hatje said:


> i have HIDS in my car, so what you dont like dont look at the car!


Yeah, because when you're driving toward us at night and blinding us as you come closer, we can just close our eyes till you pass by, right?

This is not one of those "don't like it, just ignore it" deals.

I don't care what you do to be honest, just don't act like it's ok and it's not affecting anyone or like people have a choice whether or not to be blinded.


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## Hatje (Jun 23, 2011)

Sure you do care, making a post shows that your care! You dont like it, thats fine. But i d,o and untill the law comes down hard on them i will continue to use them :th_coolio:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hatje said:


> Sure you do care, making a post shows that your care! You dont like it, thats fine. But i d,o and untill the law comes down hard on them i will continue to use them :th_coolio:


Well, you know it blinds people, and you know it is in fact illegal. I'll let you figure out what 2+2 is.


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## TKECruze (Oct 23, 2011)

been pulled over several times and been ticketed for speeding and window tint. always at night btw........ by state troopers, deputies, and city PD. always have my HIDs on n not once have i been cited for my lights  but like i said earlier preach all you want........its not gonna make any difference. ppl will continue to do what they please. i applaud ur efforts x. n while yes reflector housings aren't made specifically for HIDs then why do they fit snugly lol just saying.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

TKECruze said:


> been pulled over several times and been ticketed for speeding and window tint. always at night btw........ by state troopers, deputies, and city PD. always have my HIDs on n not once have i been cited for my lights  but like i said earlier preach all you want........its not gonna make any difference. ppl will continue to do what they please. i applaud ur efforts x. n while yes reflector housings aren't made specifically for HIDs then why do they fit snugly lol just saying.


I never got ticketed for it when I used to run them, but I think that has a lot more to do with cops not knowing the laws or simply not caring than whether or not it's legal. Either way, it's the lesser of the issues. The scenery changes when insurance companies get involved. 

They fit snugly because some Chinese company decided to slap an HID bulb assembly onto a 9006, H13, H1, 9005, etc. socket and sell it to the mass public. Just because it fits, doesn't mean you should be sticking it in.

People will indeed continue to do what they do. I won't call names, but like I said, 2+2. 

When you're (speaking in general, not anyone in particular) young, you blind people on the road and you blast your SPL boxes down the street late at night. You don't care what elderly person you're blinding who is coming home from a hard day's work to make ends meet because the economy tanked, and you don't care if you're waking up the month old kid crying who's mom works 2 jobs and is trying to get some sleep because she hasn't slept all week. You just care about yourself and what you like and what you think it's cool. The scenery changes when you have your own kid and someone else is blasting their subs at 2AM. Most people grow up and learn to be respectful and considerate eventually. Some people never do. At least now nobody can say that they didn't know better. 

/rant


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## ChevyCruzeLTZ (Apr 7, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Just because it fits, doesn't mean you should be sticking it in.
> 
> 
> 
> /rant



Words of wisdom!


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## Hatje (Jun 23, 2011)

your sob/rant stories are really pathetic.

Like i said its a free country. Ill continue to run HIDS in my car untill im told not to.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hatje said:


> your sob/rant stories are really pathetic.
> 
> Like i said its a free country. Ill continue to run HIDS in my car *even if* I'm told not to.


Fixed!

Free speech, not free country, and even then, you aren't really free to say or do whatever you want to if it affects someone else. 

I'm sorry I said something that upset you. Actually, I'm not sorry. I tell it like it is and if someone gets offended, that's their decision entirely. 

It's ironic that you're telling me that what I'm saying is pathetic. Insult what I say all you want. I call it like I see it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

HID "kits" are not street legal according to NHTSA. 

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/deetz.ztv.html
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/kim.ztv.html
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html



> HID conversion kits are illegal if any item in the kit does not comply with Federal requirements for vehicle lighting equipment.


In a section directed specifically toward HID "conversion kits:"

NHTSA Notice: Glare from Headlamps and other Front Mounted Lamps - FMVSS 108



> Another disturbing trend in this look-a-like phenomenon is the substitution of OEM filament headlamp bulbs with aftermarket HID conversion bulbs. The desire is to achieve the look and achieve the more robust performance of HIDs. While not designed to be interchangeable, some aftermarket companies are substantially altering the HID bulb bases or providing adapters so that the HID bulbs can be inserted in headlamps designed for filament bulbs. *The consequence of making these substitutions is to adversely affect safety.* Filament headlamps are optically designed for the volume of light and filament placement and other critical dimensions and performance that OEM filament bulbs have.* The HID conversions result in two to three times the volume of light and potentially imprecise arc placement. Such conversions often result in beam patterns that behave nothing like the original filament beam pattern, cannot be reliably aimed, and have many times the permitted glare intensity.* In informal conversations with persons who have tested such conversions, the light intensity on one at a point aimed toward oncoming drivers was 22 times the allowable intensity limit. Another lamp was more than 7 times too intense. With poor HID bulb and arc placement, the glare intensity could be significantly worse. Thus, the use of these conversions could be yet another source of the glare problems about which many drivers have complained.


www.sema.org/files/attachments/Government-Affairs-2009-09-eNews-May07-Lighting-HID-Conversion-Kits.pdf



> NHTSA has concluded that it is *impossible *to produce HID conversion kits (converting a halogen system to HID) that would be compliant with the federal lighting standard, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. The noncompliant kits frequently include an HID bulb, ballast, igniter, relay and wiring harness adapters. *NHTSA believes this equipment presents a safety risk to the public since the kits can be expected to produce excessive glare to oncoming motorists.* In one investigation, NHTSA found that an HID conversion headlamp exceeded the maximum allowable candlepower by over 800 percent.


DOT/NHTSA prohibits the use of HID conversion kits as described above. 


NHTSA Illegal Lighting Crackdown Continues | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)



> To date, NHTSA has investigated 24 HID conversion kit suppliers; *all investigations have resulted in recalls or termination of sales.*
> 
> "*These illegal lights are a potential hazard to those who share the road*," said NHTSA Administrator Jeffrey Runge, MD. "And we will continue to pursue those offering them for sale and violating the law."
> 
> Companies that sell, import or manufacture non-compliant equipment could face substantial civil penalties, NHTSA said.


I rest my case.


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## Horizon314 (Feb 10, 2012)

I do agree to an extent I completely understand the fact about the subs and just pissing people off because it sounds like your trunk will fly off due to vibrations but I'm still torn on the HID convo. I do agree that if you are going to get HID's you need to spend the extra money to get a projector retrofit or new housings that will allow you to aim the bulb so its not blinding others. If these protocols are followed there should be absolutely nothing wrong with them as long as your lights are not pulsing and overly distracting everyone else. I think Hatje is entitled to his opinion but doesnt have to come across like a complete dick when all Xtreme is doing is providing information and his opinion. He's not going to come and rip the lights out of your car so if you dont like his words of wisdom then dont post?????


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Horizon314 said:


> I do agree to an extent I completely understand the fact about the subs and just pissing people off because it sounds like your trunk will fly off due to vibrations but I'm still torn on the HID convo. I do agree that if you are going to get HID's you need to spend the extra money to get a projector retrofit or new housings that will allow you to aim the bulb so its not blinding others. If these protocols are followed there should be absolutely nothing wrong with them as long as your lights are not pulsing and overly distracting everyone else. I think Hatje is entitled to his opinion but doesnt have to come across like a complete dick when all Xtreme is doing is providing information and his opinion. He's not going to come and rip the lights out of your car so if you dont like his words of wisdom then dont post?????


Thank you. I have no problems whatsoever with HIDs installed in a proper projector because those don't create the same glare that a reflector housing designed for halogen bulbs would. Those won't be any different from the stock HID projectors that cars come with from the factory.


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## Hatje (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm not being a dick about it it's an opinion I do understand that aftermarket hid kits are illegal. But really the only people that can stop me from using them is the police. I like the way they look on my car. 


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hatje said:


> I'm not being a dick about it it's an opinion I do understand that aftermarket hid kits are illegal. But really the only people that can stop me from using them is the police. I like the way they look on my car.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


I wasn't going to tell you because I wanted to be polite, but you came off as a bit of a dick even if you didn't intend to. Granted, I responded in kind, but I digress. 

There are many ways to improve the way your car looks and sounds that doesn't affect other people. HID kits just happen to be one of the ways that does.

If you came up to me and asked me for advice, I would have told you that you could retrofit a projector lens for a total of $135 plus shipping for all of the parts you'd need. That includes the projector, a shroud, the H13 wiring harness, and the HID bulb and ballast. It would look even better that way.


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## Hatje (Jun 23, 2011)

I apologize if I did that wasn't my intention. 


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Hatje said:


> I apologize if I did that wasn't my intention.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


I've been guilty of the same in the past. It takes some character to apologize for something you didn't do intentionally.

ccasion14:

I edited my last post by the way.


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I thought I made this blatantly obvious with my post below. I haven't seen you respond to that yet.
> 
> Do I need to have experience with something to tell you it won't work? Do I need to drive a Geo Metro to tell you it's slow? Do I need to install a particular Pioneer subwoofer mentioned in the electronics thread to tell you it will sound like garbage? No, I can tell based on the spec sheet it will not suit the guy's purpose because I've worked with enough subwoofers to tell them apart.
> 
> ...


*Yes.

*The fact that you're not speaking from experiance and just guessing and trying to argue a point with someone/people who do have real experiance is asinine, like most of your arguments on this forum. Since you like to use examples so much, this is like you saying my exhaust is too loud when you have *never *heard it and also *don't have ay experience *with Cruze exhaust systems.

I've been around for a while, had my hands on more cars than i can count. I don't advise people on **** i don't have experience with without disclosing it first because i don't want to misinform people...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Skilz10179 said:


> *Yes.
> 
> *The fact that you're not speaking from experiance and just guessing and trying to argue a point with someone/people who do have real experiance is asinine, like most of your arguments on this forum. Since you like to use examples so much, this is like you saying my exhaust is too loud when you have *never *heard it and also *don't have ay experience *with Cruze exhaust systems.
> 
> I've been around for a while, had my hands on more cars than i can count. I don't advise people on **** i don't have experience with without disclosing it first because i don't want to misinform people...


I've removed what I originally said in my response. 

PM incoming.


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## Hatje (Jun 23, 2011)

Oh and driving in Toronto 5 days a week HIDS are great for getting back at those ******* drivers! LOL!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Skilz10179 said:


> *Yes.
> 
> *The fact that you're not speaking from experiance and just guessing and trying to argue a point with someone/people who do have real experiance is asinine, like most of your arguments on this forum. Since you like to use examples so much, this is like you saying my exhaust is too loud when you have *never *heard it and also *don't have ay experience *with Cruze exhaust systems.
> 
> I've been around for a while, had my hands on more cars than i can count. I don't advise people on **** i don't have experience with without disclosing it first because i don't want to misinform people...


So I sent this guy a PM directly offering to find a way to get past this and stop butting heads in the interest of the community as it's childish and immature. His exact answer was: "I don't care."

Going based off of him "not caring," he should't actually be in this thread since he clearly doesn't even care. 

Skilz, I don't have to have experience in every **** thing. It's called general knowledge and common sense. I find it lacking in your take on this topic. I don't have to make stupid choices and decisions in order to know they're stupid. I don't have to waste $50 or $60 to know that you'll get a similar light dispersion out of an HID kit but with significantly higher output compared to a Halogen bulb. You're not going to magically create a new and cutoff line, but I seem to be wasting my breath. I'm actually surprised that you as a moderator would defend your choice so strongly simply out of pride and ego. I already demonstrated that there's a significant amount of glare being produced above the cut-off, but it seems those words fell on deaf ears. Apparently I need to waste my money to install HID kits on my own to prove myself correct. Laughable. 

Like most of my arguments on this forum? What are we, insulting, children now? My replies to you have been relatively respectful, but somehow we've resorted to low blows? Classy, Mr. Moderator. Very Classy. 

I'm not sure if Autoguide.com approves of their Moderators flagrantly encouraging and arguing in favor of illegal modifications anyway, based solely on opinion. 

Let me run down the facts that I don't need experience to prove:

A. the housing was designed for halogens, not HIDs
B. the installation of an HID "conversion kit" in a halogen housing is illegal per NHTSA and DOT for the reasons I've argued in the last 5 pages of this thread

Your only rebuttal to the points I've made is that I haven't actually tried it for myself so therefore whatever I've said is invalid. Here guys, try drinking a tablespoon of lacquer thinner every morning. It helps brain function and makes you smarter. What? You disagree? Well ****, you're wrong because you haven't actually tried it. You shouldn't be telling me drinking lacquer thinner is bad for you if you have no experience with it. 

I tried to be nice. I tried to find a peaceful way to end the arguing and bickering, but you chose to "not care."


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Skilz10179 said:


> What part of "i don't care" do you not understand? I've made my points, i'm not trying to keep repeating myself for the sake of arguing you. There is no need to send me any more PM's.


I didn't send you any more PMs. I'm done trying to be civil with you. When you PM someone and try to be nice and find a way to be cooperative in the interest of the community, and that someone shoves it back in your face and tells you they don't care, it doens't come across particularly well. 

Regardless of what your opinion of these HID conversion kits may be, and despite the photo I took on page one of this thread demonstrating that significant glare does in fact exist above the cutoff line, the facts still remain that our housings were designed for Halogens, not HIDs, and that these HID conversion kits are illegal according to NHTSA per FMVSS 108. They are illegal enough to merit a hard crack-down on vendors who sell them for the safety hazard they create.


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

Since you're done being civil.


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