# Exhaust



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Don't even worry about getting a cat, just get a catted ZZP midpipe, you'll end up spending the same amount in the long run for either one, and with ZZP it's a direct bolt up (no welding) that can be done in your driveway by anyone and it's also stainless steel. After that, the Flowmaster catback will sound amazing.


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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

How bout a cat with a doug thorley axle back?


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

cruzey13 said:


> How bout a cat with a doug thorley axle back?


That's up to you, but it won't sound as nice. 

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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

will i still notice a sound differnce though?


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Is this for a 1.4T or a 1.8? The 1.4T won't notice as much difference in sound since the turbo is a great muffler by itself. From what I've heard it's still noticeable.


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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

so a doug thorley axle back is a good exhaust to go with?


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

It's the cheaper route, but yes it will sound ok. Personally, my only reason for doing exhaust is for performance, and usually, good sound is a byproduct of that.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm pretty positive that an exhaust on this engine is about worthless except for sound. 

Am I wrong?


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

No, you're not, but only because the engine eventually learns the exhaust out. When I first installed mine it was great, but after awhile it made no difference because of the ECM being set to a specific power goal.


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## iCruze2 (Dec 16, 2011)

boats4life said:


> No, you're not, but only because the engine eventually learns the exhaust out. When I first installed mine it was great, but after awhile it made no difference because of the ECM being set to a specific power goal.


Lame


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Darn, this is one time I hate being right. I'd have loved reading all the threads about folks trying different exhausts, and getting to listen to their efforts.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

Well if you tune you do get the full benefits of an exhaust. But running the stock tune the computer makes the engine only produce a certain amount of power.

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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Chevyderek72 said:


> Well if you tune you do get the full benefits of an exhaust. But running the stock tune the computer makes the engine only produce a certain amount of power.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using AutoGuide.com App


Incorrect sir, I was tuned as well, way before I did the exhaust. However, with the cutout, my powerband came on sooner because the turbo spooled faster- not more power, just reached full power quicker.

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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I think some of what is being posted is incorrect. With an intake the computer will learn to compensate for, an exhaust is after any sensors & there is no data for the cars computer to make adjustments for. The cars computers can't tell the difference if the restriction(factory exhaust) is there or not. 

Less restriction means better flow & less engine load. That means you will get some gain in power, MPG & sound.


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

spacedout said:


> I think some of what is being posted is incorrect. With an intake the computer will learn to compensate for, an exhaust is after any sensors & there is no data for the cars computer to make adjustments for. The cars computers can't tell the difference if the restriction(factory exhaust) is there or not.
> 
> Less restriction means better flow & less engine load. That means you will get some gain in power, MPG & sound.


Except that the engine is restricted to a certain power level (unless you tune) and the ECM compensates. Trust me, I've tried to get this to work with Steve and Vince for awhile. It always goes right back to where it's supposed to be.

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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

wrong, the computer does not make any specified power level, its all about air fuel ratios. I would think you of anyone would know that. AGAIN exhaust has nothing to do with engine management.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Oh, I think I know why you are seeing a difference. you don't just have a cat back exhaust. If you start messing with the cats & O2 readings of course there is going to be changes at the ECM. Cat back will not have any computer changes, no sensors to read from.


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## Record_player (Nov 16, 2011)

So what your saying is the ZZP down pipe and mid pipe will give you no gain in the long run. They will work for a while then the computer will essentially tune them out. 

Im glad I learnt this before I spent money on them


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Record_player said:


> So what your saying is the ZZP down pipe and mid pipe will give you no gain in the long run. They will work for a while then the computer will essentially tune them out.
> 
> Im glad I learnt this before I spent money on them


Spacedout is correct, but to you, no, deleting cats is always a good idea unless you wanna be green. Use less gas (especially on start up), more volume, less backpressure, etc. Going catless was the best mod I did, but either way I still ended up with the same power. Come to think of it, it may have been the weather difference when I dyno'd...

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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

This is my custom magnaflow system. Muffler was $175(Ebay 'Best Offer' price). Part number is around here somewhere, maybe the thread I have in the picture section. Stainless 2.25" piping from cat back costed me $150. I absolutely love the sound and I originally noticed a difference in acceleration, but not sure if it's still there or not lol(could be used to it now, or could be what Boats is saying). Either way, I always do custom exhausts on my cars, always has been cheaper for me.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

boats4life said:


> Incorrect sir, I was tuned as well, way before I did the exhaust. However, with the cutout, my powerband came on sooner because the turbo spooled faster- not more power, just reached full power quicker.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I777 using AutoGuide.com App


I stand corrected. Definitely did not know even after tuned and data logged for an exhaust the power levels dropped back down. Thanks for the clarification.

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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

Im thinking zzp cat and resonator plus a doug thorley axle back


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

The setup you're looking at (before shipping and with installation estimated) is about $540. The catted ZZP midpipe with a flowmaster force II catback is about 830. 

These are mid range prices for these parts. The midpipe and catback are more expensive, yes. But consider this: You can install yourself (no added cost) and it's a full stainless steel system which is a VERY good idea for reliability, especially if you live in a northern climate. Stainless steel is also lighter than you're average exhaust system. Up to you, I'm just here with the facts. I would personally save just a bit longer to afford the midpipe and catback.


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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

ok maybe ill buy the catback flowmaster this week... thanks alot. the


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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

ok so ill probably buy the cat back flowmaster.. but will this void my warranty huge?


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Exhaust will not void your warranty, and any dealership that tries can look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 (Click here to read about Magnuson)

The dealer/vehicle manufacturer has the right to deny a warranty repair but they must demonstrate that the aftermarket part caused the problem.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

boats4life said:


> Exhaust will not void your warranty, and any dealership that tries can look up the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 (Click here to read about Magnuson)
> 
> The dealer/vehicle manufacturer has the right to deny a warranty repair but they must demonstrate that the aftermarket part caused the problem.


I agree with that. The thing I'm concerned about is the down and mid pipes(I want to put those on, but I'm actually scared to lol). 

Depending on your state, though I thought it was a federal law, that removing catalytic converters is not considered 'street legal'. If a 'car smart' cop is behind you and smells the hydrocarbons not being burned off like they should, he can pull you over and have your car investigated(just informing, believe me, I'm all for this stuff). I've seen it happen a couple times, and not only were the cars impounded immediately, they were accompanied by a hefty fine. I've always used high flow metal spun cats in place of a typically cat, because it really has the same effect as straight pipes, but it's legal to have.

As for warranties, cat-backs will never void warranties, because you're only increasing post-cat airflow and removing the sound deadening components off the system, no big deal. Going catless on the down and midpipe though, unfortunately, could and probably will cause problems in the long run. Not sure how many know this, but the fuel trims on these cars are adjusted by BOTH oxygen sensors, not just the upstream sensor like many are familiar with.

Not trying to rain on anyones parade, of course, but just be cautious with the zzp pipes. I'm all for modifications, I have many done, but exhaust down and midpipes aren't something you can just swap out in a matter of a few minutes like the tune or intake if something horrible goes wrong

God forbid this happens to anyone on here, losing warranty becuase of going catless, but it's something to definitely think about.


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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

yes but with the cat back flowmaster.. it has a resonator type built in.. along with the stock cat before.


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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

so will the cat back flowmaster increase throttle response at all? and will it sound good at least? its 460 on carid.com


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

IIRC the ECU demands a specific level of torque, and does whatever it needs to achieve that specific torque output. I guess that could account for why on stock programming it "learns" the mods. Tuning this engine seems to be (and I could be totally wrong) about raising the level of available torque across the rev range and throttle settings. Mods like a midpipe will let the turbo spool faster, raising the level of torque available, as long as the ECU knows to look for it.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

cruzey13 said:


> so will the cat back flowmaster increase throttle response at all? and will it sound good at least? its 460 on carid.com


I didnt really notice any throttle response increase, but then again running full AC most the time doesn't help. And I think it sounds awesome, I love it. And Amazon has it for 430 shipped I believe.

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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

does anyone here have a borla single output exhaust i want to know how it is.. considering this exhaust now.. will it be better then a flowmaster? borlas name is pretty good


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## COLETRAIN (Oct 27, 2011)

OnlyTaurus said:


> View attachment 6915
> 
> 
> This is my custom magnaflow system. Muffler was $175(Ebay 'Best Offer' price). Part number is around here somewhere, maybe the thread I have in the picture section. Stainless 2.25" piping from cat back costed me $150. I absolutely love the sound and I originally noticed a difference in acceleration, but not sure if it's still there or not lol(could be used to it now, or could be what Boats is saying). Either way, I always do custom exhausts on my cars, always has been cheaper for me.



Very nice looking setup!!!!!!


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

COLETRAIN said:


> Very nice looking setup!!!!!!


Thanks! I'm very pleased with the look and sound. I think it's perfect.


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## cruzey13 (May 14, 2012)

im looking at a borla exhaust now.. its for my 2012 cruze.. will it sound ok? and overall is it a good exhaust? i can get it for 590


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