# Satisfied with your speakers?



## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

I find a little bit of joy in running these polls. Apparently some of you enjoy reading or adding into them! There's already plenty of discussion threads about speakers, radios, and whether or not the Pioneer systems are worth the money.

Let's put it all together shall we? Vote! Discuss!


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## MaximusPrime (Mar 23, 2011)

I picked the first option. The Eco didn't have a choice of getting the Pioneer system, so I have stock. While they aren't going to shatter any windows, they are more than capable for the type of car my Cruze is. They get loud enough, and have enough clarity that I can enjoy my tunes.


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

How many cars roll out the factory with a good powered sound system (with subwoofer) that audiophiles would be satisfied with? It seems culturally ingrained to "add on" what we already have.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


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## MaximusPrime (Mar 23, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


My thoughts exactly.


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## Thor1182 (May 9, 2011)

It seems the upper level Pioneer system looses its definition at higher volumes and all you can clearly hear is the kick drum.

I use the Rock setting as is when playing music from my iPhone. At normal levels I think it sounds pretty good.

I think I would rather have my bass heavy setup than the 4 speaker base system thats in my wife's '10 Sonata.


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

I think the main reason the Pioneer setup loses definition at higher volumes is because it not as sensitive as the stock speakers. Combine that with a lack of maintained power per speaker, and you get lacking sound.

...That said, 70AARCUDA hit it on the spot; it's a car, not a mobile sound station.


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## luv2cruze (Dec 15, 2010)

I have the Pioneer system, and while I AM satisfied, I find it slightly lacking. As mentioned previously, it does lose definition at the higher volume. The last 10 notches barely raise the volume, only decreasing the quality. 

I understand that it is not a mobile sound station, but I expect more. I find that the max volume is not very high at all, and depending what music source I am listening to, it can be surprisingly low. I like to _feel_ my music, and with the lack of volume and the decreasing quality at higher volumes, I _can't_! For example, when I listen to the Riverdance soundtrack, I want to feel the clippity clap of the dancers!! 

But overall, the quality of the system is good. Just a couple little irks


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

to be honest my 4 speaker stock system in my chevy prizm sounded better then this stock system......kinda disapointing....


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

I have the pioneer system and i am satisfied with them. Not really into those big subwoofers and amps and head units and all that wiring non sense. The pioneer system sure gets loud enough for my likings and yes it does get a little unclear at higher volumes and im not sure why....iagree with silphion


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

cruzeman said:


> to be honest my 4 speaker stock system in my chevy prizm sounded better then this stock system......kinda disapointing....


...true, but in a Prizm you're sitting much CLOSER to those four speakers (wink,wink).


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

Missing rear deck speakers.... Back door speakers might as well not be there . I even have fade favoring rear speakers and still don't know they exist.


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## rlhammon (Apr 7, 2011)

cruzeman said:


> Missing rear deck speakers.... Back door speakers might as well not be there . I even have fade favoring rear speakers and still don't know they exist.


I've noticed this as well... been trying to compensate as best as I can.

My convertible has a better stock system than the Cruze.. but I didn't buy it for the speakers, but would appreciate not having a lacking "hole" in the sound field.


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## Family0 (Mar 18, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


 
I'm not fussy about my audio but it feels very front heavy and if I adjust to the rear then I have to run it almost full blast. No, I'm not a teenager either.


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## kevin1214 (Feb 26, 2011)

For a stock audio system... its really not that bad. But the first mods that i did was audio. Of course having a good amp/ speakers is very important and a huge one at it ^_^

Audio Mods
Alpine H/U
Focal Utpopia 6w2 midbass
Dynaudio Tweeters
Alpine 4 channel amp- Gonna change to Zapco C2k
... the difference is night and day ^_^


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## TSURacing (Jan 1, 2011)

Heres an idea for a followup poll;

If you are disatisfied with the stock system - If you could go back in time would you spend the $495 for the Pioneer system?

I realize that this is not an option for the US ECO owners for 2011, but pretend. Would you have ordered that option if it were available?


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## mattk (Feb 18, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


I completely disagree with this (no offense). The entire reason I bought this car was as a daily driver that would be comfortable and pretty good on gas. One of the biggest comforts on a commute is the ability to either crank some tunes in the morning to get me going or to crank some on the way home to help unwind... the pathetic Pioneer system in these cars is just a letdown. 

It's not the biggest deal in the world and I will be modding the audio system eventually, but I wish I had turned up the radio on the test drive.


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## MikeW (Nov 29, 2010)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


This. Completely agree. 

I like my Cruze. I enjoy the "comforts" it is equipped with, and aware of the many features it does NOT have. The Cruze is a nice car, for a low-cost compact commuter. And for what it is, the stock system works just fine for me.


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

i would have jumped all over the pioneer system if it was available on my eco...


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

I always prefer a sound system without an amplifier (just upgraded speakers and head unit, if possible). I really haven't been convinced on getting a powered system, quite yet.


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## IcedECO (Jan 17, 2011)

Stock speakers here. I'll just say that I came from a '94 Geo Prizm that had stock speakers. The rear right crackled a little at higher volumes. Going to this I'm perfectly satisfied.


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## ScottNWDW (Apr 24, 2011)

I have the stock 6-speaker system and I am more than satisfied with it. I love it sounds great and it gets loud in the car. I rarely have the volume over 20. 

10 years ago I bought a Chevy S10 pick up. The stereo in that car had a feature that it would automatically get louder as your speed increased. I kind of wish this one did that too, but then again the Cruze is so quiet anyway it really doesn't matter.


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## erlindbl (Apr 12, 2011)

I have the stock system. I faded it about 80 per cent to get the sound right. Way too much sound coming from the front. I have no problem with the sound system. A sound system is one of the easiest upgrades for someone not satisfied. My only complaint is the system always starts at a super low volume. I wish it would remember where it left off.


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## TSURacing (Jan 1, 2011)

That is a setting in the config menu. I have mine always set to start at 11, but you can set it at whatever you like.


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## fenix (Mar 30, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


aren't they the same thing??? lol my car is the only place i get to listen to my music as loud as i want, and when a good song comes on i like to turn it up and feel the music. the stock system is ok for now, but its still paper cones which suck no matter what. i would like to replace the speakers and add an amp to get them a little more power.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

fenix said:


> aren't they the same thing??? lol my car is the only place i get to listen to my music as loud as i want, and when a good song comes on i like to turn it up and feel the music. the stock system is ok for now, but its still *paper cones* which* suck* no matter what. i would like to replace the speakers and add an amp to get them a little more power.


...ah, but on each _alternate_ sound cycle, those _same_ *paper cones* *blow* as they push air (wink,wink)!


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## 2004torridredgto (Apr 27, 2011)

Satisfied with the sound system as I've never taken mine above 25. The base sound system on these Cruzes put the stock Blaupunkt system in my GTO to shame and that has two 8 inch subs on the rear seat deck with the stock amp maxed out.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

is anyone getting a cracking noise from there speaker(stock)for some reason i thought it was the song on xm but my speakers seem to be cracking and popping everynow and then


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## Vulgar_Display (Apr 23, 2011)

ScottNWDW said:


> I have the stock 6-speaker system and I am more than satisfied with it. I love it sounds great and it gets loud in the car. I rarely have the volume over 20.
> 
> 10 years ago I bought a Chevy S10 pick up. The stereo in that car had a feature that it would automatically get louder as your speed increased. I kind of wish this one did that too, but then again the Cruze is so quiet anyway it really doesn't matter.


This car does that. Go into the settings for the radio and it's in there. The dynamic volume can be set to off, low, or high. From the factory mine was set at low. You might not notice it, but it's there.


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## auto_junkie (Apr 1, 2011)

I have an Eco with the stock system. I can't say that I feel the music, but I am very pleasantly surprised how clear and accurate it sounds, even the very low notes. In some cars, you feel the bass, but it gets muddled and loses accuracy. Not with the Eco. That being said, I would probably have gotten the Pioneer system if it was available in the Eco. I test drove an LTZ with that system, and it sounded like it had some power. But I have no regrets now, as I am quite satisfied with the stock system. I'm enjoying being able to hear a lot more of the nuances of the music.


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## ScottNWDW (Apr 24, 2011)

Vulgar_Display said:


> This car does that. Go into the settings for the radio and it's in there. The dynamic volume can be set to off, low, or high. From the factory mine was set at low. You might not notice it, but it's there.


Thanx! I'll have to look into that. I haven't played with the settings yet.


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## doc03 (May 18, 2011)

I have the 2LT with the stock speakers. The bass is poor, I have tried adjusting the equalizer with little improvement. My old Mercury Tracer had better speakers. Rather than waste a bunch of money with the On Star that I don't need or want they should have put a better sound system in it.


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## Kris D (Apr 2, 2011)

I think it's cool it uses BMW wiring. I replaced my stockies with Infinity Reference 6.5s and using a 10" JL w7 powered by Phoenix Gold Titanium 800.1


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## Yama1yzf (Feb 13, 2011)

The Pioneer system is a let down mostly....there is no definition to the audio just a boomy bass. I would have ordered it anyway as it is better than stock but I expected more from Pioneer.

I agree with others that the car is one place to crank your tunes without someone bitching at you and I want the best sound possible. My Hyundai Genesis had 17 speakers and a Lexicon stereo and it WAS a concert on wheels. Incredible sound. Probably the only thing I miss about it though.


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## Kris D (Apr 2, 2011)

I somewhat disagree with the better than stock in a sense that you can use that money towards wayyyy better speakers than the pioneer set up. To each their own tho. Agreed about cranking your music  as long as its not the police yelling lol.


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## DEcruze (Apr 29, 2011)

i definately agree that the pioneer system is geared to a certain type of music, and wish there was a way to tun it around talk/other. 

im not an audiophile, but i do like a great trance album every now and again, so ill take the trade off. 

i an very happy with the car!


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## Burtess (Apr 7, 2011)

I voted that I was not satisfied with the stock system.
It sounds OK from the front, but terrible from the rear seats. They should have put the rear speakers in behind the back seats in the trunk, they would have sounded better. I don't like the sound coming from the lower rear doors.

Burt


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## gman19 (Apr 5, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


Ditto...If one has the $$$, there are high end shops that do custom audio, to each is own!


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## shri2222 (May 13, 2011)

I'm not a huge fan of the stock speakers. I voted unsatisfied. I'm used to my 8 speaker rockford system in my jeep. It was loud clear and you could feel it in a good way. The stock speakers lack bass


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

All depends on music source. My sirius stiletto sounds good but built in xm does not get loud enough . When I use Pandora with my phone it really doesn't get loud enough.


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## FoSHO99 (May 16, 2011)

Burtess said:


> I voted that I was not satisfied with the stock system.
> It sounds OK from the front, but terrible from the rear seats. They should have put the rear speakers in behind the back seats in the trunk, they would have sounded better. I don't like the sound coming from the lower rear doors.
> 
> Burt


I voted I was satisfied with stock, but that was my only gripe as well. Went on a road trip last weekend with 5 people in the car and the people in the back were complaining they couldn't hear, even when i faded it to the back speakers it was pretty faint. But for 99% of my driving i will do without people in the back seat, I'm content.


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

going to purchase new speakers from crutchfield today, im tired of hearing crap come out of the doors. does anyone have any recomendations as to which speakers to get? I know stock speakers are 20 watts, is it ok to go with 30-35 watt speakers or will they not work properly if the head unity cannot support them.


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## Quazar (Apr 28, 2011)

I have recieved a lot of compliments on my stock speakers. -shrug-


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

really? i tried to like them but no can do. i miss my stock radio in my prizm lol. I will prob just order pioneer or kenwood speakers and hope for the best.


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

I think my stocks sound not-so-good as well, however, I listen to XM radio mostly which is digitally compressed and not good quality. If most of my music listening was CD's, downloads, etc, I might consider swapping out the speakers.


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

i have both xm and sirius and to me xm sounds horrible


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

cruzeman said:


> i have both xm and sirius and to me xm sounds horrible


 Aren't those two companies merged now? I did not think it was possible to have two different Sirius and XM chips in your car.


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## Quazar (Apr 28, 2011)

cruzeman said:


> i have both xm and sirius and to me xm sounds horrible


Both XM and Sirus only stream at 64 bit quality, in some cases 32 bit. Take a look at the spectrum of sound you get at 64 bit, its horrible, all the lows and hi's are cut out.


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## cruzeman (Mar 13, 2011)

to me the xm in my cruze is muffled but when i hook my sirius stiletto up its better. xm and sirius radios use different technology from what i was told. but i believe they are going to be just going with the xm one in the future.


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## slaz13 (May 25, 2011)

I have the pioneer premium audio and I am getting my amp replaced monday. I still feel there has to be an issue and they are going to see if a new amp fixes it. I have to have my bass turned down to -10 to -12, mids down to like -3, and treble it doesnt matter. If I turn the bass to 0 or above the speakers in the back sound like they are going to blow up and the front doors do not sound good either. With everything turned down the system is not loud as everyone else noticied. When you have premium audio in a cobalt and its better then the premium audio in the cruze something has to be wrong. In another post someone says they do not turn their bass below +6 or it doesnt sound near as good. If I turned my bass up to +6 i would probably blow my speakers! Something is faulty in my option and im hoping its a messed up amp.


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

yeah the amp upgrade might fix your issue. I also suggest you run an amp (approx. 500W) to your *4 door speakers *only. This will bring out the true sound of the pioneer system. Im saving up for the _TrifectaTune _but this will come very soon. I did this to my Audi, pioneer system as well, and it made the system much louder and _clearer. _When your speaker shopping you want a nice clear and clean type sound. So running an amp to speakers alone, brings out the _true _tone. 





slaz13 said:


> I have the pioneer premium audio and I am getting my amp replaced monday. I still feel there has to be an issue and they are going to see if a new amp fixes it. I have to have my bass turned down to -10 to -12, mids down to like -3, and treble it doesnt matter. If I turn the bass to 0 or above the speakers in the back sound like they are going to blow up and the front doors do not sound good either. With everything turned down the system is not loud as everyone else noticied. When you have premium audio in a cobalt and its better then the premium audio in the cruze something has to be wrong. In another post someone says they do not turn their bass below +6 or it doesnt sound near as good. If I turned my bass up to +6 i would probably blow my speakers! Something is faulty in my option and im hoping its a messed up amp.


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## gntlmnglfr (Jun 11, 2011)

*car audio and speakers*

this is absolutely the cheapest, worst sounding stereo i ever had in a car!!! it definatley needs an amplifier installed.


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## slaz13 (May 25, 2011)

No they put a new factory amp in. 250 watts should be fine to power this system. Its not always about how high the wattage is and I knwo this for a fact! Some people say this system sounds amazing a lot say it sounds awful. I honestly feel there is an issue with the system that everyone has and something needs fixed. Hopefully the amp was defective somehow and this fixes it! I pick it up tonight and we will see how it sounds.


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## Vulgar_Display (Apr 23, 2011)

The issue with this system is that people are under the impression that Pioneer has actually made decent speakers in the last 20 years. 

Pioneer speakers are trash. Plain and simple. They cater to wal-mart and best buy weekend warriors wanting to get the cheapest possible upgrade to OEM speakers. 

Pioneer does make some good high end head units however. But speakers...not so much. 


As soon as I get time I'll be installing my Image Dynamics components, and 12" sub. Powered by an alpine PDX-5.


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## Vulgar_Display (Apr 23, 2011)

So I got a look at the stock speakers today when I had my door panels off. The stock speakers are featherweights. The cone of the speaker is as thick as a piece of paper. I can see the sound quality really degrading over time. 

You can't comprehend how cheap the stock speakers are until you hold them in your hands. 

The 6.5" i'm replacing the door speaker with easily weighs 5x's as much.


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## SR99 (Jun 28, 2011)

*Alpine SPS-610 series. Two thumbs up!*

So I am no longer a heavy base junkie but i do like good sound and some base. I have a 11' Eco 6MT with the base stereo. I bought the Alpine SPS-610C(Component) speakers for the front and SPS610(2-Way) speakers for the rear.All 6 3/4" with 1" tweeters. I have no amp or do I desire to get one. The job took me a total of 4 hours to swap everything out. Mostly because i took my time and took lots of pictures of the job. The sound is fantastic. 100x better than stock and perfect amount of base. I don't intend on changing out the head unit as the usb and aux plug is also connected to the stereo. For those of you looking for a solution without heavy wiring work I recommend this setup. I ordered everything through crutchfield and it includes the mounting brackets. There aren't speaker plug wire harnesses so I cut them and soldered the wires to the new speakers. If you have any questions PM me. First pic is the rear speaker. Second pic is the front woofer. Guess which ones are the factory and which ones are the new ones.  The whole setup cost me $215 and I installed it myself.


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## dmartinct (Sep 30, 2011)

So lets say I'm stupid and cheap and I have the stock radio. (I am and do) . Could I just put four SPS610(2-Way) speakers in the doors and be done with it? 

I know its not the best, but will it help, do you think?

Thanks


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

I have an LS and I would like to have rear deck speakers instead of the rear door speakers they are too quiet. I guess over the years and there is not a great selection of music I enjoy on the radioand there are too many commercials!!!!(even on satellite) consistently, I find myself listening to a lot of talk radio or just enjoying the quiet CDs tend to be a bother for the amount of time I spend in my car. I agree with 70AARCUDA: it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people. I am in the car to drive not to be entertained . Besides I am not a rolling bass machine like a lot of the kids vibrating down the road(I am still waiting to see a body panel fall off one of those cars). I think rear deck speakers would be an improvement and I may find myself listening to more and more music after I find all the good stations on satellite and find an easy place to save them on presets with all the different pages!?!?!? 6 per page doesn't seem to be enough to capture all the program my family and I listen to. I get in my wife's Malibu and I can "crank up" the music since it has the rear decks and it seems I enjoy music in her car better. The satellite receiver in her car has 10 presets and I seem to fumble thru those better than going thru the "pages" of presets. I don't know but I get where I am goingwith this but as Frank Caliendo would say about George Bush would say when he is done talking. "The End" to know he is done.


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## TravsCruze (Aug 4, 2011)

Its functional, nothing is blown, nothing is making weird static noises... i'll just leave it like it is until there is a reason to swap something out.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

I'm actually pretty happy with my stock speakers. I couldn't handle no bass so after adding a single 12 in the rear it sounds great. Maybe eventually I'll upgrade the speakers but they work great for now.


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## mzodarg (Sep 3, 2011)

12 LTZ premium sound here. Initially I was not impressed but after reading a few threads here, It sounds decent. I'm surprised that there is not much in the aftermarket world. I had a 10 Avalanche LTZ and put in a Kenwood dual din with all the bells, to include Nav.

Tre'


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## kylake (Jul 31, 2011)

I am driving a 2012 with stock speakers (6 total). I wanted the pioneer system but didn't order and I bought off the lot and that was not an included package in my RS.
I am happy, didn't like the sound at first but tweaked the equalizer and they are very clear and the bass vibrates the door at 20. Much better sound system than the 2009 Vibe I was driving before.


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## thaicruze (Jul 21, 2011)

I am driving. I say, let's listen to a little music. I turn it on. Volume at 12 or as low as 9 or even 8. Little background something. Any speakers will do for me.


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## Kruise (Sep 28, 2011)

Vulgar_Display said:


> This car does that. Go into the settings for the radio and it's in there. The dynamic volume can be set to off, low, or high. From the factory mine was set at low. You might not notice it, but it's there.


I looked at that feature, and it has a label "for radio." Does the dynamic volume work only for the radio, or can it work for other inputs like USB?


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## dmartinct (Sep 30, 2011)

There is a Kicker 6.5" Subwoofer with 2 OHMs (10CVT652). Would this work better than the 4-Ohm model with the stock radio, replacing one of the rear speakers, without any other modifications?

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Kicker-6-5-CompVT-Subwoofer-10CVT652/dp/B0036MQWR4/ref=pd_sim_e3[/ame]

It has a mounting depth of 2-13/16 inches. Will it fit?


Thanks

Dave


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## stevesjh (Aug 29, 2011)

*9 speaker pioneer premium sound system*

Do not spend the money. The premium system sucks. GM really screwed this one up and won't fess up that the design is wrong.I wish I had the stock 6 speaker system but I was forced into the premium with the allstar package.


TSURacing said:


> Heres an idea for a followup poll;
> 
> If you are disatisfied with the stock system - If you could go back in time would you spend the $495 for the Pioneer system?
> 
> I realize that this is not an option for the US ECO owners for 2011, but pretend. Would you have ordered that option if it were available?


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## dmartinct (Sep 30, 2011)

For anyone interested: from Crutchfield: The Kicker 10CVT654 woofers require a bigger cutout diameter (hole the speaker goes into) than your vehicle has right now. Your vehicle currently has 5.1" for this diameter and those woofers need 5.45" for the diameter.

Good to know; I guess I can't figure this out from looking at the speaker specifications from Kicker.

Dave


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## Dpedraza (Oct 24, 2011)

I'd say that I'm not satsified but it's not too terrible. Just a lil flat with no bass. I did have an infinity Basslink in my other car though maybe I'll buy another one and upgrade my speakers to infinity kappa or something.


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## DanRS (Aug 23, 2011)

5 years ago I would have said I need more BASS!!!! But I think I did too much damage to my ears back then...The factory speakers are fine for me.


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## BigSlim (Jul 27, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...it's a *CAR*, _not_ a mobile *AUDIO chamber* people!


How often are you in your car? I put 25k miles on my car a year and really enjoy a decent quality sound system on my long trips. I replaced my rear seats with three 12"s. I didn't need competition quality bass, but I wanted my trunk. So with the bass set to "0" the original 6 speakers sound much clearer at high levels and the bass is still loud (but not obnoxious). Depends on what you want from your speakers.


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## Dpedraza (Oct 24, 2011)

BigSlim said:


> How often are you in your car? I put 25k miles on my car a year and really enjoy a decent quality sound system on my long trips. I replaced my rear seats with three 12"s. I didn't need competition quality bass, but I wanted my trunk. So with the bass set to "0" the original 6 speakers sound much clearer at high levels and the bass is still loud (but not obnoxious). Depends on what you want from your speakers.


I'm in my car a lot i agree you have to like the quality of the stereo. I think a small powered sub would help greatly


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Rear lows sound horrible and the front has "too much" bass. Bunny ears because it isn't loud bass but my rear view looks like its going to fall off.


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## 20126spdRS (Dec 27, 2011)

when using AUX jack system is limited for volume... with the USB sounds pretty good. overall i think they could have done a bit better my old 99 monte had the upgraded factory sound system and it was quite a bit better. for the most part i got the volume down listening to the motor finding the shift points (M/T)


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

I love my speakers. I have the Premium setup.


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## Cruzin' Angel (Feb 12, 2012)

I'll admit, I do have some hearing loss, but I just don't get the volume I think I should with Sirius/XM. FM is louder. I have the Pioneer premium sound system. With USB using flash drive, its all about the quality of the MP3...some songs are louder than others. Rear speakers sound like crap...but then I didn't know they were just subs until I read it on here.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Did bring the subject up to my wife tonight while on a long drive. Commented on our 2012 2LT, its weird the four speakers are mounted on the bottom of the doors. Did check with my doctor, I don't have ears on my feet, and then the package tray already has cutouts for a pair of 6 by 9's, maybe I should get a pair, rear window acts wonderfully for bouncing the sound to the front of the car.

Then I realized I was talking to myself, she was playing with her MP3 player with ear buds on.

What is she wearing ear buds? Because she already tried to connect her player directly to the Aux input and couldn't get any volume. Asked me why since I am the engineer, replied because some kid awhile back blew his brains out, so all the makers of these portable players greatly decreased the volume. Only getting a small fraction of the old RIAA standard of 1 VRMS signal. Further replied, just about everybody knows this except for the guy that designed that high voltage Aux input. Now if you had a preamplifier back from the 50's, wouldn't have that problem.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> Did bring the subject up to my wife tonight while on a long drive. Commented on our 2012 2LT, its weird the four speakers are mounted on the bottom of the doors. Did check with my doctor, I don't have ears on my feet, and then the package tray already has cutouts for a pair of 6 by 9's, maybe I should get a pair, rear window acts wonderfully for bouncing the sound to the front of the car.
> 
> Then I realized I was talking to myself, she was playing with her MP3 player with ear buds on.
> 
> What is she wearing ear buds? Because she already tried to connect her player directly to the Aux input and couldn't get any volume. Asked me why since I am the engineer, replied because some kid awhile back blew his brains out, so all the makers of these portable players greatly decreased the volume. Only getting a small fraction of the old RIAA standard of 1 VRMS signal. Further replied, just about everybody knows this except for the guy that designed that high voltage Aux input. Now if you had a preamplifier back from the 50's, wouldn't have that problem.


There are also tweeters in the pillars. Why? Because higher frequencies are much more sensitive to height than lower frequencies are. Lower frequencies are much more directional. There's still a problem, but its not as bad as having the full range of frequencies playing at your feet. 

The rear 6x9 speakers in the upgraded sound system are just subwoofers. For passengers, its actually uncomfortable to listen to music at lower volumes because all you hear is bass and its not very accurate bass at that. Rear window reflections are a reason why audiophiles refuse to run rear speakers in the deck. those reflections are actually bad, not good. The window has a way to distort the sound. 

If you want to try amplifying some rear 6x9 full range coaxials, you'll discover that your sound stage has shifted toward the rear even if you level match everything. It will sound like vocals are coming from behind you, which will sound unnatural.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Are you suggesting that I have my ears transplanted to my feet? If I was really a diehard audiophile, would have my steering repositioned to the center of the vehicle.

Actually the simplest solution is to wear a good set of headphones, works so well, they made it illegal for the driver to wear.

One reason why I took an early interest in flying, can wear headphones, have to talk to someone over the unicom while flying making a radar approach while watching a thousand things. If I get caught holding a cell phone in a do nothing car, will get tossed in jail.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> Are you suggesting that I have my ears transplanted to my feet? If I was really a diehard audiophile, would have my steering repositioned to the center of the vehicle.
> 
> Actually the simplest solution is to wear a good set of headphones, works so well, they made it illegal for the driver to wear.
> 
> One reason why I took an early interest in flying, can wear headphones, have to talk to someone over the unicom while flying making a radar approach while watching a thousand things. If I get caught holding a cell phone in a do nothing car, will get tossed in jail.


Car audio is as imperfect of an audio environment as you can get. There really aren't very many alternatives to placing the 6.5" midbass drivers in the doors. The tweeters, which are at ear level, do a decent job at producing the more directional frequencies on-axis. You wouldn't otherwise be able to find a place for a 6.5" midbass driver in the upper door or dash, and anything smaller that can be fit higher up won't be large enough. The only real alternative is to have a 3-way setup which has a tweeter and mid up near ear level in custom pods, and have the midbass driver producing relatively non-directional frequencies no higher than 300hz at your feet. 

If you were to sit in my car, I could easily convince you that I have 4 8" subwoofers hidden inside my dash. The bass sounds like its coming from in front of you or everywhere. In reality, the sub is in the trunk. 

Cabin pressurization and boundary loading allows for some interesting placement of lower frequency transducers.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Reasonably happy with my two Blaupunkt overdrive 6 by 9" speakers I installed in my 04 Cavalier. Naturally, the lower the frequency, the larger the cone and voice coil, hence the more volume. While I never professionally designed consumer speaker systems, been a long time hobby, but seem to have a lot of test equipment like distortion meters, audio generators, sound level meters. Blaupunkt's have the best overall flat frequency response for a three in one speaker. Yes, space is a problem.

With my 88 Supra Turbo, only room for four four inch speakers, and that car, inverted the spare to mount a 10" woofer with an external amp to balance out the base. Can guarantee to you, won't hear a boom, boom, boom, if I drive past your home at 3:00 AM in the morning. Also testing a bunch of auto speakers, rare to find a 3.2-4 ohm speaker that doesn't produce major cone distortion with greater than 13 watts RMS applied, 20 watts per speaker is more than enough, unless you like distortion.

Yet another critical parameter is phase distortion, cancellation of various frequencies due to speaker placement, for stereo, two speakers is more than enough, unless you like phase distortion. See the most popular audio accessory today are these boxes that introduce distortion. Not my bag, also have friend that love the non-linear distortion of a 12AX7 vacuum tube. Can also live without that.

Do like sound surround, but see my Cruze radio doesn't have that feature, but maybe I haven't found the right button yet.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> Reasonably happy with my two Blaupunkt overdrive 6 by 9" speakers I installed in my 04 Cavalier. Naturally, the lower the frequency, the larger the cone and voice coil, hence the more volume. While I never professionally designed consumer speaker systems, been a long time hobby, but seem to have a lot of test equipment like distortion meters, audio generators, sound level meters. Blaupunkt's have the best overall flat frequency response for a three in one speaker. Yes, space is a problem.
> 
> With my 88 Supra Turbo, only room for four four inch speakers, and that car, inverted the spare to mount a 10" woofer with an external amp to balance out the base. Can guarantee to you, won't hear a boom, boom, boom, if I drive past your home at 3:00 AM in the morning. Also testing a bunch of auto speakers, rare to find a 3.2-4 ohm speaker that doesn't produce major cone distortion with greater than 13 watts RMS applied, 20 watts per speaker is more than enough, unless you like distortion.
> 
> ...


Testing equipment is great. I have a Dayton MM-6 calibrated measurement microphone, which I use with ARTA to get frequency response and phase measurements among others. I also have a Dayton WT3, which measures T/S parameters. Good for designing perfectly linear subwoofer boxes. Unfortunately, good phase alignment is impossible to get in a car without an active crossover such as the MiniDSP, and even then, it will only be ideal for the driver and his/her listening position. I'm installing one in my cruze and will be documenting the process. Adjustable crossover at any specified frequency (hooks up to your laptop) up a 4th order LR and a 31-band EQ to fine tune everything once you've selected your crossover points to protect the tweeter and keep any cone breakup out of your passband with the woofer. Never going to a passive crossover again. Not too bad at $115 + shipping, but it does require 4 channels of amplification and an educated driver choice. Can't just use any cheap woofer or tweeter. 

I was a fan of the "boom boom boom" for a little under a year. I ran a 15" hifonics subwoofer, 1600W. It got old not being able to enjoy my music. I got rid of that and bought two Image Dynamics IDQ10 subs that combined could thermally handle 500W RMS. Low excursion, low moving mass, extremely musical, and very efficient. The same subs won the MECA State Class A SQ championship the year before I bought them. I figured I was on the right track. Those are now in my home theater and an IDQ15 is ready to go in the Cruze. Big sub, but low excursion, low moving mass, high efficiency, and low distortion. Its not about the boom, but about the precision. Anyone can get it loud. 

Cone distortion is dependent on frequency. You'd be in a world of pain if you gave a tweeter 20W RMS even if it could handle it thermally. The speakers in my 95 Regal however will take 20W RMS and more in its passband, free of distortion. Woven fiberglass cone and a magnet that barely fits the cutout.










Unfortunately, the crossovers are junk and the tweeters are too hot. Lots of equalizing went into making it sound "decent." The key is being able to handle dynamic peaks in music. 20W per channel will get you some impressive volume, but you'll start to distort when those dynamic peaks come in. 

Those boxes that you're referring to that cause distortion are probably boxes that use augmented output. I haven't yet seen a single well-designed pre-manufactured vented or bandpass box. Its not so much distortion as it is group delay due to how its designed, as the distortion of such a box is actually lower due to its ability to limit xmax. Input a 40hz signal and get a 40hz tone 20-30ms later. Terrible transient response, peaky frequency response, and no real benefit. Sealed boxes is what I prefer. I like my hearing. 

I'm assuming you meant to say that for stereo, two _channels _is enough. If you could split that up into a 3-way system (tweeter, mid, woofer) plus subwoofer, you could effectively produce a pretty accurate sound stage. Not cheap or easy though, even for me. I'm going for a two-way with a very robust tweeter with a dual-neodymium motor that can take 100W RMS. Yes, 100W RMS thermal handling, for a tweeter, but I won't need anywhere close to that in a car.

Not tooting my horn or attempting to quiet yours; I can appreciate an audiophile that knows what he's talking about. I design home theater speakers on the side, from crossover to cabinet from scratch. You'd be pleasantly surprised at the kind of sound you can get out of a pair of well designed speakers (measured, simulated, tweaked, and perfected), and I'm not referring to volume, but rather clarity and precision. Precision perfect phase wrap within the crossover frequency passband and a linear frequency response within +/- 1.5db.

What do I dislike about the factory system? Not a whole lot, except it doesn't take much volume before distortion sets in. Its that feeling you get that you need to turn the volume down because its "too loud," when in reality its not that loud at all. What's actually too loud is the frequency response peaks and dips and the distortion setting in from either a low power handling on the speaker side or a low power delivery on the head unit side. You won't be reaching for the volume knob in my car once I'm done with it, and your head will not hurt till when I crank it up, within reason of course.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

I know nothing about the Cruze audio system, well the radio itself is very much part of the data link system and used for such things as if your horn beeps or not if you press a button on your remote. Then is has an ID code so no one will steal it, but have no idea why anyone would, only good for another Cruze.

GM is trying their best to kill the aftermarket radio business. Just observed, no one here is talking about changing the radio, but did see some talk about aftermarket radios to get a navigation system a little bit cheaper.

One good thing external amplifiers do, is to remove the heat from that radio, can really warp a CD.

There are features of the standard Cruze radio I really like, like an easy to find on off switch, both volume and tuning knobs, a clock I can set without reading the manual, and a display I can see in the daytime. Can go crazy with some of these aftermarket radios, like hold down three buttons, and pulsing the fourth ten times within a second to turn the darn thing off. Heck got into my motorhome after winter and couldn't even remember how to turn the darn thing on let alone change the station. And couldn't see a thing on the display in the daytime.

So what is the power output of the Cruze radio and what voice coil resistance are they using in the speakers? Sure was a disappointment in my 04 Cavalier, found 12 ohm speakers in that thing, single cones, no highs or midrange to speak up and very little volume. With that thing, had to remove the radio and find a single source to power up the external amplifiers I had to install by probing around with a voltmeter. Then adding a buffer circuit it to power the relays in the external amplifiers and where to mount them so they are invisible. Then doing everything that was 100% reversible so wouldn't have warranty problems. Ha, even made custom mounting plates to use all the existing holes with felt protection.

At least with the stock Cruze, the sound system is bearable, way far superior to that terrible sound system that came stock with the Cavalier. But is a major project. Other unknown factors is how long are we going to keep this car, would be more money down the drain.

Ha, I designed my own folded horn speaker enclosures back in 1961, still haven't found anything better, but did have to update the grilles to please my wife to get away from that 50's look, 51 years later, still enjoying them. Can't even count the number of vehicles I have been through over the same time period, vehicles are no different than an aluminum pop can, use them once and throw them away.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> I know nothing about the Cruze audio system, well the radio itself is very much part of the data link system and used for such things as if your horn beeps or not if you press a button on your remote. Then is has an ID code so no one will steal it, but have no idea why anyone would, only good for another Cruze.
> 
> GM is trying their best to kill the aftermarket radio business. Just observed, no one here is talking about changing the radio, but did see some talk about aftermarket radios to get a navigation system a little bit cheaper.
> 
> ...


The radio is very much integrated; moreso than with previous models. You can still buy a "factory integration module" with an aftermarket head unit to allow certain functions to continue to work, but even those are limited. I haven't seen a good one yet that retains all functionality in the Cruze. 

External amplifiers do remove heat from the radio, but not a whole lot of it. Unless GM has wised up and moved their amplification technology to Class D (more expensive but far more efficient), they're probably still Class AB architecture, which by nature will produce heat even while not producing any sound.

If you're interested, I can measure the nominal impedance of the factory speakers with a WT3 woofer tester. I do know that the tweeters are run right off of the woofers in the doors with nothing more than a capacitor as a high pass protection filter. My guess is GM didn't think it would be worthwhile to spend money on inductors, so the woofers are probably run full range, complete with cone breakup (a sharp peak in a higher frequency range).


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Just knowing the DC resistance of the voice coil will be fine. Practically all replacement speakers has that resistance marked on the rear of the speaker, like 2, 3.2, 4, 8, or 16 ohms as common values. But on an OE speaker, all you find is a meaningless stock number, but can be determined with an ohmmeter. Could do that, by removing a door panel, unplugging the voice coil connections, and measuring it. 4 ohms is very typical for automotive speaker systems.

Old 78 Caddy was still using a class A germanium power transistor, would draw 5 amps regardless of the volume setting. Even back then they had bridge stereo chips. With 14.5V applied and transistor a transistor saturation voltage of a couple of volts, only capable of producing a peak to peak voltage of 12 volts, peak is 6, RMS is 0.707 times that or about 4 volts. That squared, 16 divided by a 4 ohm speaker resistance, 4 watts the most you could get out of that, with those power amplifiers drawing better than 70 watts. Not very efficient.

Dumped those germaniums and installed bridged stereo chips. These use a boot strapped amplier operated in the class AB range to prevent crossover distortion and speaker leads have to be floating, Like taking those leads hooking the red to 14.5V the black to ground, then reversing it. With a lot more circuitry, can get a peak voltage of 13.5V, other way is a negative 13.5V. !3.5V times 0.707 for RMS is 9.5V, that squared is 91, divided by a 4 ohm speaker resistance is 22 watts output. 40 watts output if using 2 ohm speakers. Yes, I know speaker impedance is a far cry from the DC resistance, but doing what the audio guys do when specifying power capability. Many use peak to peak power that doesn't even exist, but with a 2 ohm speaker can advertise 400 watts output. Ten times the actual true RMS power.

With the bridged amplifiers installed, that Caddy radio input current dropped to 0.7 amps, mostly lamp current, but would go up to 2.4 amps proportionately to the volume control lever setting. Of course the Caddy stock speakers couldn't handle that new power and had to be replaced with two new floating wires installed to each speaker.

Power rating on speakers doesn't have anything to do with the kind of power output that speaker can produce without distortion. They just quickly apply a DC voltage to the voice coil, find out where the voice coil burns up and use that figure.

With a standard 14.5 powered bridged amplifier and four ohm voice coils, 20 watts is all you can get in RMS power. If you want more, the amplifier requires an up converter to get more DC voltage, like 29 volts could produce 80 watts per channel with 4 ohm speakers. If the speakers can take that.

On the other hand, most speakers with 1KHz applied and one watt will produce a Db sound level of 93 Db's at one meter distance. 8 Db's above of what OSHA considers a dangerous lever to your hearing. In this instance, even one watt of power is more than enough. Maybe that is why our speakers are pointed at our feet.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> Just knowing the DC resistance of the voice coil will be fine. Practically all replacement speakers has that resistance marked on the rear of the speaker, like 2, 3.2, 4, 8, or 16 ohms as common values. But on an OE speaker, all you find is a meaningless stock number, but can be determined with an ohmmeter. Could do that, by removing a door panel, unplugging the voice coil connections, and measuring it. 4 ohms is very typical for automotive speaker systems.
> 
> Old 78 Caddy was still using a class A germanium power transistor, would draw 5 amps regardless of the volume setting. Even back then they had bridge stereo chips. With 14.5V applied and transistor a transistor saturation voltage of a couple of volts, only capable of producing a peak to peak voltage of 12 volts, peak is 6, RMS is 0.707 times that or about 4 volts. That squared, 16 divided by a 4 ohm speaker resistance, 4 watts the most you could get out of that, with those power amplifiers drawing better than 70 watts. Not very efficient.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind, that's 1W at 1khz as you noted. I can assure you that 1W of power at 80hz or 100hz will be insufficient, and 1W at 6khz may be painful. Its dynamic peaks that you start to worry about. The purpose of having an amplifier that can produce more than the speaker can handle is that you will certainly hit much higher peaks than the speaker can handle continuously, but the "total music power" will be far less than the RMS rating. 

93db @ 2.83V is a VERY efficient speaker. The speakers I design for home theater use never get those kinds of numbers. They're usually closer to 86db efficient if I'm lucky. The only way to get that kind of efficiency is to use very expensive speakers or no crossover (No crossover = terrible sound quality), and even then the driver itself has to be at least that efficient, and those are quite rare. 

Here's one exception:
Silver Flute W17RC38-04 ohm 6-1/2" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store

Wool fiber cone 6.5" midbass driver, 91db efficient at 4ohms, 1W/1M. The DCR of a 20 gauge air core inductor used to tame that response peak at 5khz would probably knock you down at least 1.5db. 

Quite correct in that power ratings on speakers aren't an indication of how loud they will go, but rather when the voice coil will melt. I've noticed the significant factor in my speakers' ability to handle that kind of power is being able to produce midbass frequencies with some real authority and zero distortion at very loud volumes. 

I may run a log sweep on ARTA with my measurement mic in the car to see what the frequency response of the base speakers in the Cruze is in-cab.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Wool for a speaker cone? Is that for a warm sound? Guess to find out what I have, will have to remove a door panel. Looked at that, not a screw anywhere, must be all snapped together. Wouldn't dare do that in the winter months. Best time to do that is on a hot summer day with the sun beating down on it. Too easy to break a plastic snap on cooler days when that plastic gets real brittle.

Any thoughts on this subject will have to wait until summer.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

Just installed some pioneer speakers and they sound great. I would have left it stock but my right front speaker would rattle on songs with a lot of bass. So I just upgraded. Sound is great and I'm very happy with them. Only problem is songs with lots of bass get a little muddy from the speakers, which will be fixed when I put an aftermarket deck in and use the high pass filter to take the lows out. And I did notice less bass then the stock setup, it still sounds good but the speakers don't produce the lows as well. Which is fine because I have a sub for that. Overall very happy. And only.cost me 120 bucks and about 6 hours of work.

Sent from my DROID X2 using AutoGuide app


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Chevyderek72 said:


> Just installed some pioneer speakers and they sound great. I would have left it stock but my right front speaker would rattle on songs with a lot of bass. So I just upgraded. Sound is great and I'm very happy with them. Only problem is songs with lots of bass get a little muddy from the speakers, which will be fixed when I put an aftermarket deck in and use the high pass filter to take the lows out. And I did notice less bass then the stock setup, it still sounds good but the speakers don't produce the lows as well. Which is fine because I have a sub for that. Overall very happy. And only.cost me 120 bucks and about 6 hours of work.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using AutoGuide app


The speakers you picked up are probably far less efficient and have a higher total Q than the factory speakers. Basically, stiffer suspension, which means you'll have more difficulty getting any respectable bass out of them.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The speakers you picked up are probably far less efficient and have a higher total Q than the factory speakers. Basically, stiffer suspension, which means you'll have more difficulty getting any respectable bass out of them.


That makes sense, but its alright I don't care what bass they put out as the sub gives me that. I think they definitely sound better than the stock ones though.

Sent from my DROID X2 using AutoGuide.com App


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## tc_sting (Feb 23, 2012)

The stock speakers in the Cruze are not good, but then maybe for this type of car class they are to be expected. The treble is off causing a high pitch for pop songs and to correct that you lose the growl of a rock song. It's like I am listing to my cell phone's speaker and pandora all over again.

I would grade these stock speakers a C-


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Chevyderek72 said:


> That makes sense, but its alright I don't care what bass they put out as the sub gives me that. I think they definitely sound better than the stock ones though.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using AutoGuide.com App


Quick question. Did your factory system come with pillar tweeters, and if so, did you keep those connected when you put your Pioneer speakers in?


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Quick question. Did your factory system come with pillar tweeters, and if so, did you keep those connected when you put your Pioneer speakers in?


 Yes mine came with A-pillar tweeters, and I swapped those out for the pioneer ones also. 

Sent from my DROID X2 using AutoGuide.com App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Chevyderek72 said:


> Yes mine came with A-pillar tweeters, and I swapped those out for the pioneer ones also.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using AutoGuide.com App


That's probably the majority of the reason why it sounds better. The factory tweeters are pretty bad at higher volumes.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

Ya, well it sounds a lot better to me also since my stock right front mid was rattling at higher volumes on some songs. Plus if I ever upgrade to an aftermarket deck the speakers will sound even better. I helped my buddy install the same speakers in his Colorado and they sound amazing with a pioneer deck. 

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk


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