# Neutral at Intersections Good Idea??



## justmike (Dec 6, 2010)

I have gotten into the habit of putting my auto trans in neutral when I am sitting at an intersection for any fair length of time. I am wondering if this is easier on the tranny or harder on it in the long run. Can anyone tell me? I certainly get some strange looks from some of my passengers when I do it but I figure why keep it in gear for that long? Some intersections in town are up to two minutes long now!!


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

lmfao funny you mention this
the auto trans in the Cruze does this for YOU! if you're stopped and have depressed the brake for more then like 3-4 seconds it will shift it into neutral. try stopping on a hill next time and then let off the brake, you'll notice the car rolls back an inch or two before kicking into drive. 

it does this of course to help save the transmission. i think they're going for high mileage reliability, they want to see cruze's in the hundred thousand miles down the road, no more 50-100k and the car is dead


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## SilverCruzer (Nov 30, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> lmfao funny you mention this
> the auto trans in the Cruze does this for YOU! if you're stopped and have depressed the brake for more then like 3-4 seconds it will shift it into neutral. try stopping on a hill next time and then let off the brake, you'll notice the car rolls back an inch or two before kicking into drive.


 Yes, it takes a little to get used to. I was waiting at a light on an incline, and when I took my foot off the break, I felt the car roll backwards and I freaked and hit the brake. I was not used to that sensation with an automatic.


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## ChevyMgr (Oct 27, 2010)

Also on an automatic transmission, coasting in neutral uses more fuel than leaving it in gear. When you let off the gas and coast while in gear for a few seconds, the ECM will cut fuel off, but if you are in neutral it will not.


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## cruze-control (Jul 23, 2010)

wow. i never knew the cruze did that. another reason why this is probably going to last for a long time and chevy hopes to get a rep for that.


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## gordio (Nov 26, 2010)

cruze-control said:


> wow. i never knew the cruze did that. another reason why this is probably going to last for a long time and chevy hopes to get a rep for that.


Same here. there are a LOT of features the cruze offers that they really need to advertise on their website. (sorry i really hate the chevy website)


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## cruze-control (Jul 23, 2010)

gordio said:


> Same here. there are a LOT of features the cruze offers that they really need to advertise on their website. (sorry i really hate the chevy website)


youd think that with them being really aggressive about marketing the cruze they would remember to advertise features like this. instead they keep talking about how good it sold around the world which honestly doesnt interest me in any way. id rather hear how good it will be for me instead of hearing how good it was for other people.


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## ChevyMgr (Oct 27, 2010)

ChevyMgr said:


> Also on an automatic transmission, coasting in neutral uses more fuel than leaving it in gear. When you let off the gas and coast while in gear for a few seconds, the ECM will cut fuel off, but if you are in neutral it will not.





cruze-control said:


> wow. i never knew the cruze did that. another reason why this is probably going to last for a long time and chevy hopes to get a rep for that.


 


gordio said:


> Same here. there are a LOT of features the cruze offers that they really need to advertise on their website. (sorry i really hate the chevy website)


This is not new technology. GM has been doing it for years. It's call DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off). If you see your instant fuel economy go to 99 mpg, that's when it's occuring.


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## cruze-control (Jul 23, 2010)

ChevyMgr said:


> This is not new technology. GM has been doing it for years. It's call DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off). If you see your instant fuel economy go to 99 mpg, that's when it's occuring.


is there anything that you dont know about chevys? lol! its a good thing we have you here. its like having our own 24/7 customer support line.


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## gordio (Nov 26, 2010)

ChevyMgr said:


> This is not new technology. GM has been doing it for years. It's call DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off). If you see your instant fuel economy go to 99 mpg, that's when it's occuring.


I think they really need a section of the site that talks about technologies they use for various cars that noobs are unaware of. For instance, I am fascinated/curious about the Z-link suspension but there's no information on it on the site. people like me who never researched an american car may not know any about these neat things chevy created. 

autoblog and other websites do a better job educating and intriguing me on the cruze than the actual chevy site.

take honda's website. the CRV page has animations on how the automatic knows how to knows to hold a gear when going uphill or downhill to avoid gear-huntnig. and for the Fit, there are animations on the different modes for the "magic seats".


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## racer114 (Nov 7, 2010)

I agree. This thing seems to be filled with technology that we don't know about and the sales people darn sure don't know about.


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## justmike (Dec 6, 2010)

Well I'll be darned!! I had no idea and the manual, which I read front to back, never mentioned that. Thanks Shawn and whats imfao by the way? Also, I will have to check again but that could explain why the car freaked me out by rolling forward even when I had it in reverse. For lack of a better term it felt like the tranny was really weak for a couple of seconds there. I can't remember how long I had my foot on the brake on that steep snowy hill but I thougth to myself I wouldn't want to be too close to another car without my ebrake on because it rolled forward for what felt like a good foot.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

lmfao=laugh my ******* ass off. when i say that, it usually means i really laughed out loud and other people probably heard me and looked at me weird.. 

also, most i've ever rolled is maybe 2inches or less, on a snowy hill too. if you're really worried about it, SLIGHTLY press the gas while pushing the brake, right before you move. if you do this, it wont roll back because it'll put the trans back into drive b/c ur pressing the gas. Just be careful, if you press it too hard the car will jerk forward


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## justmike (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi Shawn. Thanks for that info. I can appreciate you laughing like you did but I do want to make sure you know that I only got the Cruze 3 weeks ago. I developed the habit of neutral at intersections in my Toyota Echo which I bought in '04 and drove until my purchase of the Cruze. I plead ignorance!! I am going to enjoy getting an education about my new car and I am going to be better informed about what I bought than the nice salesman who sold my Cruze to me. I like that.


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## regnant (Nov 25, 2010)

I have asked a similar questions to technical guys and all of them told me to leave the tranny in D was a smarter action rather than putting in N when waiting at lights .

As for the Cruze tranny, as far as I know only if you use manual mode and use your brakes it actually engages in N but I haven't noticed any difference when using auto mode


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

justmike said:


> Hi Shawn. Thanks for that info. I can appreciate you laughing like you did but I do want to make sure you know that I only got the Cruze 3 weeks ago. I developed the habit of neutral at intersections in my Toyota Echo which I bought in '04 and drove until my purchase of the Cruze. I plead ignorance!! I am going to enjoy getting an education about my new car and I am going to be better informed about what I bought than the nice salesman who sold my Cruze to me. I like that.


it's all in good humor mike, no offense. we're all here to learn


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## ChevyMgr (Oct 27, 2010)

cruze-control said:


> is there anything that you dont know about chevys?


Yes. But If I don't know it, I research it and find an answer.


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## wolfc70 (Dec 30, 2010)

In the Cruze it really shifts to N after a stop? In the old Saturn Astra it would just decouple the torque converter. I wonder why they would physically make the transmission shift? Seems like this could be bad for the transmission if you flat foot the car from a stop.

I was told GM was doing this to help increase mileage, not reduce wear on the tranny, as sitting at a light , the only moving part is the torque converter.


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## racer114 (Nov 7, 2010)

This is better than what I just read Ford was doing for future vehicles. They are going to have the engine shut off and turn back on at stops, much like the hybrids. I don't know how that can't be a huge wear issue for parts.


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## cerbomark (Dec 13, 2010)

I may be the minority but I do not like this feature. I don t like the delay and lack of connection. For the 2 cents a week it may save me I m not sold. Maybe there is a way to turn it off thru a fuse or plug.


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## justmike (Dec 6, 2010)

At one time the tranny going into neut would have bugged me, but as this town has grown I am amazed at how long I am sitting absolutely still for up to two minutes at a time in some places. That can't be good for bands in the tranny and other parts that are being restricted. And my days of quick off the line are behind me now too. So sad that last line there. BooHoo


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## racer114 (Nov 7, 2010)

This brings up another point. Since having the reflash done, my Cruze does not shift into neutral at intersections anymore. Strange.


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## cruzers (Dec 13, 2010)

racer114 said:


> This brings up another point. Since having the reflash done, my Cruze does not shift into neutral at intersections anymore. Strange.



I've been following your transmission woes, I get this feeling GM could have given you the wrong flash update. Try another dealer.


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## racer114 (Nov 7, 2010)

I really don't want to have to go to another dealer, but I'm going back as soon as I have time to get it looked at again.


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> it does this of course to help save the transmission. i think they're going for high mileage reliability, they want to see cruze's in the hundred thousand miles down the road, no more 50-100k and the car is dead


 
It's done for fuel mileage.


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

wolfc70 said:


> I was told GM was doing this to help increase mileage, not reduce wear on the tranny, as sitting at a light , the only moving part is the torque converter.


The 6T30/40/45/50 are clutch to clutch transmissions. At any one time, 2 clutches are applied to give you a gear. When coming to a light, one clutch is disengaged to give a neutral condition. This reduces load to increase fuel mileage.


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## gregoron (Mar 17, 2011)

I like this system. It reminds me of several scooters I've driven that have automatic gearing. Except that at a stop, the scooters tranny switches to neutral and stays there until the gas handle is activated. I think I would have preferred not to have the brake pedals depressed for the transmission to stay in neutral. It should stay in neutral when under a certain RPM and go to first gear when the accelerator is depressed.



GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> The 6T30/40/45/50 are clutch to clutch transmissions. At any one time, 2 clutches are applied to give you a gear. When coming to a light, one clutch is disengaged to give a neutral condition. This reduces load to increase fuel mileage.


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

gregoron said:


> I like this system. It reminds me of several scooters I've driven that have automatic gearing. Except that at a stop, the scooters tranny switches to neutral and stays there until the gas handle is activated. I think I would have preferred not to have the brake pedals depressed for the transmission to stay in neutral. It should stay in neutral when under a certain RPM and go to first gear when the accelerator is depressed.


Then everyone would bitch & complain about the acceleration delay!


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## existensil (Apr 13, 2011)

cerbomark said:


> I may be the minority but I do not like this feature. I don t like the delay and lack of connection.


Lack of connection?!? You are driving an automatic. There is already a severe lack of connection. Should get the manual if you really want to feel connected.


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

The cruze is smart the way they designed it to "roll back" like that. 
I sure wasn't used to that the first time I noticed that.


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## Silphion (Mar 31, 2011)

Considering I shifted to neutral at an intersection while driving M/T cars, it makes sense to me. Honestly? I feel the A/T doing this for me is a step forward in the *right direction*. My previous A/T car would just sit on its gear and grind. If the brakes were thin or at other certain times, it was actually a chore to hold the brake down to keep the car from going forward.

Comparing to rollback from an M/T, and rollback from an A/T, the A/T is a little bit better (or I just have slow reflexes, heh). I like what it does, and immediately see it keeping multiple aspects of the car lasting longer, not just the tranny.


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## rlhammon (Apr 7, 2011)

cruze-control said:


> wow. i never knew the cruze did that. another reason why this is probably going to last for a long time and chevy hopes to get a rep for that.


I traded in my 2005 Chevy Cobalt (2.2L base model) with 190,599 miles on it for my Cruze ECO. Never had an issue with the Cobalt, and I'd say Chevy (GM in general) doesn't have to do anything but let the public use their vehicles and they will see for themselves. Quality is there... has been, it's the reputation that's sticking around that needs to change.


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## 72oly300 (Apr 9, 2011)

I have it on a good authority that engine start-stop technology is going to go everywhere in all sizes of vehicles = especially large trucks, SUV's & small cars too. There is little choice with the MPG requirements coming from Washington, Calif, etc. Without getting into the merits of regulating fuel mileage - the manufacturers will need to play every card in their hand to meet requirements from 2016 to 2020.


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## rlhammon (Apr 7, 2011)

72oly300 said:


> I have it on a good authority that engine start-stop technology is going to go everywhere in all sizes of vehicles = especially large trucks, SUV's & small cars too. There is little choice with the MPG requirements coming from Washington, Calif, etc. Without getting into the merits of regulating fuel mileage - the manufacturers will need to play every card in their hand to meet requirements from 2016 to 2020.


Not that I'm asking you to reveal why you know something... as many of us have ties to the automotive world, but I question this. Mainly because the duty cycle the EPA tests doesn't seem to include much idle time where this would increase their EPA results. Since CAFE is based upon EPA testing, and not real world data... I don't see the benefit.

You can get a brief overview of the various duty cycles from the EPA website to see:

Dynamometer Drive Schedule Quick View | Testing and Measuring Emissions | US EPA










While I applaud the use of technology to help (cylinder deactivation is another great one), I don't see this one (yet) become wide spread due to the metrics being used currently.

Metrics drive behavior.... change the measurement method, and watch the industry respond.


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## gfxdave99 (Feb 26, 2011)

Silphion said:


> Considering I shifted to neutral at an intersection while driving M/T cars, it makes sense to me. Honestly? I feel the A/T doing this for me is a step forward in the *right direction*. My previous A/T car would just sit on its gear and grind. If the brakes were thin or at other certain times, it was actually a chore to hold the brake down to keep the car from going forward.
> 
> Comparing to rollback from an M/T, and rollback from an A/T, the A/T is a little bit better (or I just have slow reflexes, heh). I like what it does, and immediately see it keeping multiple aspects of the car lasting longer, not just the tranny.


You do realize that the auto trans has an idler gear / torque converter setup thats designed for that and that youre putting more wear and tear on the transmission by doing something its not designed to do which is shifting it into N and back into D every time you stop.


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

Does anybody know if the automatic 2013 Cruzes will still have this roll-back feature when stopped on inclines/hills?! I personally don't like it because I'm used to my current car (automatic) staying completely still on inclines, sometimes even when my foot isn't on the break! I remember the first couple times I test drove the Cruze and it rolled back while I was in the median of a divided highway that had a slight incline and it scared the **** outta me! lol. 

Plus, so many people these days, love to pull right up on your car's ass when you are on a hill, incline, or a divided highway median that was a slight incline!! Who would be at fault if the car was to roll back far enough to back into the other car that's behind you on your ass? Even if they were to get blamed/charged for being to close, you still might have to deal with damages, injury, and all the other crap that goes with getting in a accident, whether it be a big one or small. The possibility of you rolling back into someone because of this roll-back feature especially on any kind of incline has to be even worse during rain, snow, sleet, and freezing rain right? Either way, I don't like the feature and wish they would do away with it. Clearly just my opinion though.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...automatic "start/stop" _isn't_ *manditory* (yet), but its slight boost to FE _is_ needed by all the manufacturers to enable them to meet their EPA CAFE requirements, which _are_ *manditory*.


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## joe0121 (Jul 17, 2012)

Starks8 said:


> Does anybody know if the automatic 2013 Cruzes will still have this roll-back feature when stopped on inclines/hills?! I personally don't like it because I'm used to my current car (automatic) staying completely still on inclines, sometimes even when my foot isn't on the break! I remember the first couple times I test drove the Cruze and it rolled back while I was in the median of a divided highway that had a slight incline and it scared the **** outta me! lol.
> 
> Plus, so many people these days, love to pull right up on your car's ass when you are on a hill, incline, or a divided highway median that was a slight incline!! Who would be at fault if the car was to roll back far enough to back into the other car that's behind you on your ass? Even if they were to get blamed/charged for being to close, you still might have to deal with damages, injury, and all the other crap that goes with getting in a accident, whether it be a big one or small. The possibility of you rolling back into someone because of this roll-back feature especially on any kind of incline has to be even worse during rain, snow, sleet, and freezing rain right? Either way, I don't like the feature and wish they would do away with it. Clearly just my opinion though.


Use the E-brake just like you would in a manual on a incline and someone is an inch off your bumper.


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## leeclark (Mar 25, 2012)

if someone that close to you just roll back into them. I'm pretty sure it would be their fault for being to close.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

ChevyMgr said:


> This is not new technology. GM has been doing it for years. It's call DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off). If you see your instant fuel economy go to 99 mpg, that's when it's occuring.


You see this even on cars without the technology though. My GTO did it and it didn't have DFCO.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

leeclark said:


> if someone that close to you just roll back into them. I'm pretty sure it would be their fault for being to close.


Sadly no. Had this happen to me. Guy got way too close on a steep hill in ny manual s10. I wasnt paying attention to him (too busy looking at traffic on the highway i was trying to turn onto. Normally i dont roll back on hills, even in a manual, unless i messup and that particular time my foot slipped off the clutch and i went backwards hitting him. Insurance ruled that my lack of control of my vehicle was to blame for the accident. 

And at least from the standpoint of driving a manual they were right. It is easy to come off even the steepest hill and not roll back in a manual. But accidents happen.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

Roll back on a hill is not really a problem, for all practical purposes. By the time my foot has move from the stop pedal to the go pedal the transmission has already engaged. And then I'm applying power to move forward. I seriously doubt that the car has backed up an inch, maybe two at the most on a really steep hill. This whole issue was never a problem when I drove a stick. Never had anybody so close that rolling was a problem.


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