# GM appears to have changed the timing belt interval.



## silvertank (May 26, 2015)

My water pump had been leaking for a long while on to the timing belt its a pretty hardy belt


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Three years for a timing belt that was originally a 10 year life? How is this even possible?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Go with the owners manual on this one. Many dealer service intervals are designed for the worst case car and best case dealer wallet.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

3 years with a average of 15,000mi a year is only 45,000mi before getting the belt changed. This doesn't add up and would be one of the shortest intervals I've seen. Go with the book. Or the messsge on your DIC.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

jkhawaii said:


> The owners manual for my 2014 CTD says 10 years or 97000, the dealer service information shows 3 years or 97000.
> If that's the case, looks like it's time to replace the timing belt. The water pump already appears to have a slow leak any way.


dealer service information as in actual gm factory literature only for employees? (are you the mechanic or have you confused with someone else?)

or dealer service information as in emails owners get from service depts for upsells?


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Did the part numbers change? Wonder if TechLink has anything on the life span of the timing belt being an issue? There doesn't seem to be anything at NHTSA about diesel timing belts.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Almost every timing belt I've seen short of something German since the 90s is good for 7-10 years OR 70-105k, whichever comes first. If the belt isn't cracked, worn, or deteriorated from oil/coolant leakage, it should be fine to keep spinning.


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## VtTD (Nov 5, 2013)

yeah, no. If they changed it to 3 years, that's when you tell them to pay for it or let it break and have the warranty cover it (if under 5 yrs). Even after the bumper to bumper, if that thing broke under 97k, you better believe I'd be yelling up a storm at GM customer service. This isn't an oil change. It's expensive enough that it should be budgeted in to anyone's buying process and going from having to do this, in my case at 5 years vs. 3 years is a huge difference.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Just for giggles, I did some digging on Service Information. I see where they are getting the 3 years from. In SI there is a section that is the vehicles owners manual. In the maintenance schedule there it is listed as 2.0 Diesel engine Only: Replace the timing belt, timing belt tensioner, idler pulley, and water pump (7) 97,500mi. Under the Footnotes- Maintenance Schedule Additional Required Services- Normal it says (7) Or every three years, whichever comes first. I believe this is a mistake. These copies in SI are known for having mistakes.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

CruzeDan said:


> Under the Footnotes- Maintenance Schedule Additional Required Services- Normal it says (7) Or every three years, whichever comes first.


And, in the 2014 Owners manual PDF on chevrolet.com that I just now downloaded, it says "(7) Or every 10 years, whichever comes first."


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I went 145K on my timing belt. The only reason I changed it is because one of the pulleys was whining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqutOduQGc


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Is there a removable top portion of the belt cover? Should be easy to inspect it there to see if it really needs to be replaced.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Is there a removable top portion of the belt cover? Should be easy to inspect it there to see if it really needs to be replaced.


I think there is, but not sure how easy to remove. I would probably still be on my original timing belt if it hadn't started whining.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

Now that I think of it... the water pump is covered under warranty (or extended warranty) at most I would pay for the timing belt. I may as well repalce it if its going to be removed to replace the water pump.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

diesel said:


> I went 145K on my timing belt. The only reason I changed it is because one of the pulleys was whining.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqutOduQGc


 Your 145K is likely 60K of my driving lol. 3 Years and only 32,000 miles for me due to shorter trips and slower average speeds


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Is there a removable top portion of the belt cover? Should be easy to inspect it there to see if it really needs to be replaced.


 looks pretty easy. I'm a bit lazy I guess.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

jkhawaii said:


> Now that I think of it... the water pump is covered under warranty (or extended warranty) at most I would pay for the timing belt. I may as well repalce it if its going to be removed to replace the water pump.


Isn't that just the gas water pump? I don't think the extended warranty applies to the diesels.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

diesel said:


> Isn't that just the gas water pump? I don't think the extended warranty applies to the diesels.


 I have a GMPP extended warranty that covers most things.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> Isn't that just the gas water pump? I don't think the extended warranty applies to the diesels.


The water pump should be covered under the 100k powertrain warranty, yes?


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## Greggul8r (Apr 20, 2016)

jkhawaii said:


> looks pretty easy. I'm a bit lazy I guess.


I love the honesty


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MP81 said:


> The water pump should be covered under the 100k powertrain warranty, yes?


Yeah. The 1.4s have a 10 yr/150k warranty on it because they go out. All. The. Time.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Yeah. The 1.4s have a 10 yr/150k warranty on it because they go out. All. The. Time.


So the special warranty coverage - much like the CTDs have on the DEF heater/reservoir.


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## dougc905 (May 24, 2015)

As a matter of interest, where are you noticing the leak from the water pump?


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

dougc905 said:


> As a matter of interest, where are you noticing the leak from the water pump?


 Honestly, I'm just assuming it coming from the water pump at this time. I know I see a trail of dried coolant (slow leak) towards the left, front of the engine but, have not pulled off the timing cover yet. Most likely water pump.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

OK the water pump is leaking. appears to be leaking from the shaft seal.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jkhawaii said:


> OK the water pump is leaking. appears to be leaking from the shaft seal.


Warranty item - 10 years/150,000 miles.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

obermd said:


> Warranty item - 10 years/150,000 miles.


Didn't know the extended water pump coverage included the Diesel engine.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Didn't know the extended water pump coverage included the Diesel engine.


It doesn't. Just the LUJ or LUV 1.4L turbos in the Sonic or the Cruze.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

However, WP would still be a powertrain warranty item on the diesel.


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## Lugnut (May 4, 2017)

The water pump on the LUZ diesel is 5 year / 100K miles powertrain warranty. I know this for a fact as I just had the water pump replaced under this warranty. As for the timing belt service interval, I am going to have to throw the BS flag here. The owners manual is the word or truth on the service interval. If this changed, GM would have to issue a recall and provide the owners of EVERY affected vehicle the new information. This has happened before, and it is not unprecedented. However, I just looked at GM Service Information, and the service information clearly states to refer to the owners manual. I looked at the electronic owners manual, and the service interval has not changed. One thing to remember, GM Dealers are typically franchise businesses. They are a representative of GM, however, their profits/losses do not go to GM, they go to the dealer principle. I highly suspect that this information about the 3 year service interval on the timing belt is coming from the local dealer and NOT GM. Just my .02.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I was at the dealer a few months back dealing with an issue. After getting the lecture about how far out of maintenance my car is (I am not) I got a glance at the document they were using showing all of the maintenance that had to be done, which seemed excessive. It was just a copy of the Severe service schedule that you can find at the back of the manual, but was labeled something like "GM Certified Maintenance Schedule". I actually found a copy online once but I cannot find it now. 

When I told the guy that what he is telling me doesn't match my manual, he said "Well this is straight from GM". Um, isn't the manual straight from GM too?

The issue I have is they are using the Severe schedule and applying it equally to everyone. They didn't even question my driving habits, just "you have reached x miles, time for x maintenance". In this case it was transmission fluid change (50,000 miles).


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BDCCruze said:


> I was at the dealer a few months back dealing with an issue. After getting the lecture about how far out of maintenance my car is (I am not) I got a glance at the document they were using showing all of the maintenance that had to be done, which seemed excessive. It was just a copy of the Severe service schedule that you can find at the back of the manual, but was labeled something like "GM Certified Maintenance Schedule". I actually found a copy online once but I cannot find it now.
> 
> When I told the guy that what he is telling me doesn't match my manual, he said "Well this is straight from GM". Um, isn't the manual straight from GM too?
> 
> The issue I have is they are using the Severe schedule and applying it equally to everyone. They didn't even question my driving habits, just "you have reached x miles, time for x maintenance". In this case it was transmission fluid change (50,000 miles).


Transmission fluid should be changed every 45K, even in the diesels.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

obermd said:


> Transmission fluid should be changed every 45K, even in the diesels.


I'd say _especially_ on the diesel. From all the reading I've done (and I'm sure my eventual physical evidence when I get around to doing it), that **** comes out black. 

When I changed my axle last year in the Cobalt, at 115k miles, the (original) fluid coming out was still red and pretty. Amazing how one generation really can change things - pretty sure the 6-speeds and up don't have the big (typical) trans filter my 4T45 does. My buddy has been changing his Fusion's trans fluid about every 30k miles (shared 6-speed design between GM and Ford), and every 30k it's already black.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I kind of wonder if transmission fluid has changed. My son recently sold his college car a 2005 Pontiac Vibe, had a Toyota engine transmission, bought it with 79k miles four years ago, sold it recently with 151k and we changed the transmission fluid three times under our ownership, it was black every time. I was changing it about every 25k miles. 

I guess my question is, when it's black does that mean the fluid is worn out? I dunno. Some have their engine oil analyzed just wonder if anyone does that with transmission fluid?

Just for the record, my ctd transmission has some weird shifts, but I have to say, I really don't like transmissions with no dip stick, that's just a stupid idea.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> I kind of wonder if transmission fluid has changed. My son recently sold his college car a 2005 Pontiac Vibe, had a Toyota engine transmission, bought it with 79k miles four years ago, sold it recently with 151k and we changed the transmission fluid three times under our ownership, it was black every time. I was changing it about every 25k miles.
> 
> I guess my question is, when it's black does that mean the fluid is worn out? I dunno. Some have their engine oil analyzed just wonder if anyone does that with transmission fluid?
> 
> Just for the record, my ctd transmission has some weird shifts, but I have to say, I really don't like transmissions with no dip stick, that's just a stupid idea.


Not that much - you still want it to be red or light brownish when used. Black means burnt.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> I kind of wonder if transmission fluid has changed. My son recently sold his college car a 2005 Pontiac Vibe, had a Toyota engine transmission, bought it with 79k miles four years ago, sold it recently with 151k and we changed the transmission fluid three times under our ownership, it was black every time. I was changing it about every 25k miles.
> 
> I guess my question is, when it's black does that mean the fluid is worn out? I dunno. Some have their engine oil analyzed just wonder if anyone does that with transmission fluid?
> 
> Just for the record, my ctd transmission has some weird shifts, but I have to say, I really don't like transmissions with no dip stick, that's just a stupid idea.


I was under the impression it was because of the lack of the large filter that auto transmissions have always had. They have a small internal one, but it's nothing you can change.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I was under the impression it was because of the lack of the large filter that auto transmissions have always had. They have a small internal one, but it's nothing you can change.


If this is the cause, gm is going to a shorter warranty only 60k miles. Not changing the transmission fluid or the so called lifetime fluid may be asking for a failure out of warranty, it is not all that expensive to change.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

obermd said:


> Transmission fluid should be changed every 45K, even in the diesels.


The point is, the service manual says to change it at 50,000 for severe, but has no recommendation for normal driving. If the diesel is more susceptible to transmission wear, why does GM not tell you to change it (at least up until 150,000 miles)?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> The point is, the service manual says to change it at 50,000 for severe, but has no recommendation for normal driving. If the diesel is more susceptible to transmission wear, why does GM not tell you to change it (at least up until 150,000 miles)?


I would say they are ok with a modest percentage of the cars having transmission failures. For gen 1 I think the transmission is generally good but has weird shifts at times and seems to get worse when transmission fluid breaks down with mileage. They are in the business to keep selling you a car, not for someone to drive it for 500k miles with no big repairs.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

BDCCruze said:


> The point is, the service manual says to change it at 50,000 for severe, but has no recommendation for normal driving. If the diesel is more susceptible to transmission wear, why does GM not tell you to change it (at least up until 150,000 miles)?


You raise a good point, why the 100,000 mile difference between "normal" vs "severe"? I don't know but the variance seems very high. 

I tend to to think most driving done near any major US city these days falls into the severe category. Same with driving in very hot or very cold climates 4-6 months a year. 

This is is a great read: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-g...8-service-schedule-service-normal-severe.html


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Rivergoer said:


> You raise a good point, why the 100,000 mile difference between "normal" vs "severe"? I don't know but the variance seems very high.
> 
> I tend to to think most driving done near any major US city these days falls into the severe category. Same with driving in very hot or very cold climates 4-6 months a year.
> 
> This is is a great read: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-g...8-service-schedule-service-normal-severe.html


My gut feel from reading the definition of "severe" is that 90% of Americans should be following the severe service schedule. This schedule is filled with "OR" clauses, which mean if any of the following statements are true, then use the "severe" service schedule. Extremes of temperature are known to cause fluids and chemical reactions (batteries) to break down early and this covers the entire North American continent for over six months of each year - either very hot or very cold.


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