# Cruze vs Volt?



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

They lose a LOT of value, but the 1st gen Volt was actually quite reliable for GM and its Cruze based roots. So far the 2nd gen Volt is holding up pretty well too. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Thus far, there is at least one Gen 1 Volt on the Volt forum with 300k+ miles and no battery degradation. Seems to be the similar case for the rest of the higher-mileage Gen 1 owners.

I absolutely love my Gen 2. And remember - 53 miles is just the EPA rating. In the summer I average 70 miles of range, easily. I drive all city (34 miles round trip, for work), so plenty of regen to be had. EVs don't particularly like the freeway, and it it's a double whammy since there's very little regen there, as well. I've owned the car since March of 2017 and filled up _three_ times, putting around a total of 16-17k miles on the car.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

If you're looking for VW TDI/Subaru/Honda type resale values, Chevy fwd vehicles isn't where you wanna look.

If you wanna know if the gen2 Cruzes and Volts are good cars, yes I'd say they are. 

The volt is going to be cheaper to operate as far as regular maintenance and daily operations go. Somewhere on the order of 1/4 to 1/10 the fuel costs, probably 1/4 the oil change maintenance, and maybe 1/2 the brake maintenance, though honestly GM OEM brakes can go 100k on the current Cruze, Impala and Malibu.(I'm at 104k 100% original brakes all the way around on my Impala)

With that said...Non maintenance and any non warranty issues are typically higher for the Volt. And Volts are more likely to be totalled in a crash than a Cruze. I've seen numerous Volts/Bolts totalled for accidents that left vehicle driveable after high volt enable, and would've been maybe $5-10k repairs. So it's easier to "lose" your car if you get attached to them when you have a Volt.

Volt g2 batteries are still in the $6k range as far as I know, but they'll drop as more units enter the rebuilding pool. Will they get as low as g1(sub $3k) who knows now, but that's still more than an engine costs for a Cruze, and the trans is basically 100% more than a 6Txx for a Cruze, and of course it still has an engine.

If you're into it for reason other than saving money on fuel, and you'll have the ability to abosrb the inevitable significantly larger repair bills over time, then. Volt is a great car. If you're not okay with those conditions, get a Cruze.


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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

Volts are great because nobody uses the engines, so you get a car with 50k on it and the engine isn't even broken in yet.

Electrics and hybrids excel in urban stop/start driving as the regenerative braking allows it to recapture spent energy every time they slow. Diesels excel on long steady freeway drones as the motor is in the "sweet spot" of efficiency.

Electrics depreciate badly because the first owner gets the big tax writeoff that the next owner can't take. It's not a linear decline. 

I like my diesel with the stick as it's a more engaging drive than an electric, but they're both great cars and I don't think you can go wrong with either.


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## mgulfcoastguy (Jun 20, 2016)

One thing to think of is that the Volt production is being cancelled in March. GM has also not shown an iron clad promise that the Voltaic drive train will be retained in another vehicle. There are vague maybes only. What that means for spare parts and mechanical support is up in the air. I find that regrettable because a station wagon, minus the hump and with adequate height for 3 back seat passengers, would fit my needs admirably. I admit that my opinion may not be popular with the SUV obsessed public though.


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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

mgulfcoastguy said:


> There are vague maybes only. What that means for spare parts and mechanical support is up in the air. ]


It's not. They're required by law to keep spare parts for 20 years.


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## mgulfcoastguy (Jun 20, 2016)

But will they have local mechanics qualified to work on them? US wide, which is vastly different from SoCal, only about a third of Chevrolet dealers opted to sell Volts.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I can't see volt being cancelled when electric is the future.

When did parts get upped to 20 years?

Can anyone still buy parts for olds and Pontiac? Other than the usual parts stores.


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## mgulfcoastguy (Jun 20, 2016)

snowwy66 said:


> I can't see volt being cancelled when electric is the future.
> 
> When did parts get upped to 20 years?


You must have missed the news. GM is cancelling almost all sedans including the Volt. Sedans in general are not selling and have a small profit margin when they do. As to the Volt, GM has used up all 200,000 of it's $7,500 each federal tax credits. Starting in March the tax credits for GM drop to half or $3750 and in July to half of that again and three months later they expire totally. That puts them at a financial disadvantage to VW, Hyundai, Chrysler and anybody else other than Tesla. Tesla is in the same fix. GM will continue to produce the Bolt in low number to satisfy CARB States but that is it for now until vehicle purchase trends change.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

mgulfcoastguy said:


> One thing to think of is that the Volt production is being cancelled in March. GM has also not shown an iron clad promise that the Voltaic drive train will be retained in another vehicle. There are vague maybes only. What that means for spare parts and mechanical support is up in the air. I find that regrettable because a station wagon, minus the hump and with adequate height for 3 back seat passengers, would fit my needs admirably. I admit that my opinion may not be popular with the SUV obsessed public though.


The Malibu hybrid uses essentially the same tech as the Volt. Expect to see it proliferate throughout other product lines as well. GM has it in layouts and capacities for fwd, awd and rwd vehicles.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

I wonder if 10/15 yrs down the road when a Volt battery kicks the bucket could one simply yank the heavy dead-weight battery out and keep driving the car on ICE for a beater car or airport junker?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> I wonder if 10/15 yrs down the road when a Volt battery kicks the bucket could one simply yank the heavy dead-weight battery out and keep driving the car on ICE for a beater car or airport junker?


You'd have to do some heavy duty re-wiring. A guy that I worked with had an original Insight and the battery **** out, but it was a known thing that happens after a while, so people have figured out how to bypass the battery entirely. So he just drove around on the ICE.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Rivergoer said:


> I wonder if 10/15 yrs down the road when a Volt battery kicks the bucket could one simply yank the heavy dead-weight battery out and keep driving the car on ICE for a beater car or airport junker?


Quick answer...No.
Engine doesn't have a starter it just the first hurdle to overcome.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Ok. That's understandable. Maybe something comes out to replace the volt. 

Rebates or not. Battery still appears to be the future and as long as congress wants to cut down on fossil fuels and oil and is pushing for zero emissions. 

First the talk was the disappearance of gas engines. Now it's the disappearance of sedans. 

The talk keeps changing.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> Quick answer...No.
> Engine doesn't have a starter it just the first hurdle to overcome.


Did not know that. 

So so how does the ICE kick over...after the electric motors get the wheels spinning, the tranny engages to “bump start” it?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Rivergoer said:


> Ma v e n said:
> 
> 
> > Quick answer...No.
> ...


It uses one of the electric drive motors in the transaxle. There is no torque converter, the engine can be direct driven by the electric motor. It basically goes from off to idle instantly. The Silverado hybrids were the same way.


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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

mgulfcoastguy said:


> But will they have local mechanics qualified to work on them? US wide, which is vastly different from SoCal, only about a third of Chevrolet dealers opted to sell Volts.


They're still making hybrids. You're making an issue out of nothing.


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## soutthpaw (Dec 14, 2018)

Being a master auto tech in the past. I'll fix it myself as long as I can get the parts


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## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

Ma v e n said:


> *The Malibu hybrid uses essentially the same tech as the Volt.* Expect to see it proliferate throughout other product lines as well. GM has it in layouts and capacities for fwd, awd and rwd vehicles.


There are almost no similarities. The Voltec system is unique to only the Volt, which is an electric vehicle with a range extending system (the ICE generator), NOT a "hybrid", and doesn't, nor ever has, operated as a hybrid. They require the same fuel, but that's about where it ends.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

DmaxMaverick said:


> There are almost no similarities. The Voltec system is unique to only the Volt, which is an electric vehicle with a range extending system (the ICE generator), NOT a "hybrid", and doesn't, nor ever has, operated as a hybrid. They require the same fuel, but that's about where it ends.


So the Voltec system operates much like a diesel locomotive (diesel ICE generates electricity to operate electric drive motors)...is that right?


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## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

soutthpaw said:


> Being a master auto tech in the past. I'll fix it myself as long as I can get the parts


I have a 2017 Volt Premier. Traded the 2014 Cruze Diesel for it in Nov. 2016. Both were/are simple to maintain, and will be more so with your experience if you know your way around OBD, while the balance of repairs should be normal suspension wear (most stuff is typical GM compact design). I don't expect it to ever need a brake job. I took advantage of the tax incentives and rebates, but now with 2 years and 53K on it, I can say I would have bought it anyway, without the incentives. I'll probably be buying a 2019 while they're still available. The fuel savings alone, even going from the Cruze Diesel, is significant enough to justify the purchase price (savings is more than the payment, at 83% electric). Buy a CA model and the electric system warranty is 50% greater than the rest of the world (150K in CA, vs. 100K everywhere else). We loved the Cruze, but weren't disappointed moving into the Volt. I have 240V charging at home, which is about a 4.5 hour full charge on the 2017 (240V/16A). Get the 2019 with the fast(er) charging option and that's cut to 2.5 hours (240V/32A). As said before, the 53 mile range is the EPA estimate. We vary between a winter's worst of 48 miles, to a best of 70+ during optimal spring/fall, living in central CA mountains with a 20 mile one-way commute (distance to nearest sizable town). Highway trips on gas are 45-50 MPG. Don't sweat the battery life or warranty. Current estimates are around $6K for replacement, and that's surely to decrease over time. It costs that much for injectors and head gaskets in my other "car" (Duramax truck). We drive the car any time we don't need the truck, so we can afford to drive the truck when can't use the car, like moving 23K# down the highway (truck + 5th wheel RV).


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## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

Rivergoer said:


> So the Voltec system operates much like a diesel locomotive (diesel ICE generates electricity to operate electric drive motors)...is that right?


Somewhat, when it's in extended range mode (out of battery capacity, or in "hold" mode, which saves the battery for later, user-selectable), except the Gen2 Volt will actually couple the engine direct to the axles at times, depending on the efficiency advantage. It does this quite well, almost completely unnoticed. All other times, it's 100% electric, like a Tesla or other BEV, while the ICE and gas is just dead weight.


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## soutthpaw (Dec 14, 2018)

DmaxMaverick said:


> I have a 2017 Volt Premier. Traded the 2014 Cruze Diesel for it in Nov. 2016. Both were/are simple to maintain, and will be more so with your experience if you know your way around OBD, while the balance of repairs should be normal suspension wear (most stuff is typical GM compact design). I don't expect it to ever need a brake job. I took advantage of the tax incentives and rebates, but now with 2 years and 53K on it, I can say I would have bought it anyway, without the incentives. I'll probably be buying a 2019 while they're still available. The fuel savings alone, even going from the Cruze Diesel, is significant enough to justify the purchase price (savings is more than the payment, at 83% electric). Buy a CA model and the electric system warranty is 50% greater than the rest of the world (150K in CA, vs. 100K everywhere else). We loved the Cruze, but weren't disappointed moving into the Volt. I have 240V charging at home, which is about a 4.5 hour full charge on the 2017 (240V/16A). Get the 2019 with the fast(er) charging option and that's cut to 2.5 hours (240V/32A). As said before, the 53 mile range is the EPA estimate. We vary between a winter's worst of 48 miles, to a best of 70+ during optimal spring/fall, living in central CA mountains with a 20 mile one-way commute (distance to nearest sizable town). Highway trips on gas are 45-50 MPG. Don't sweat the battery life or warranty. Current estimates are around $6K for replacement, and that's surely to decrease over time. It costs that much for injectors and head gaskets in my other "car" (Duramax truck). We drive the car any time we don't need the truck, so we can afford to drive the truck when can't use the car, like moving 23K# down the highway (truck + 5th wheel RV).


Thanks for your reply, you mentioned the CA battery warranty, I'm looking at a 2016 that was originally sold by a California dealers and is one owner that was CA registered. 
Does this mean the longer battery warranty will carry over to me even though I don't live in CA


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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

DmaxMaverick said:


> Somewhat, when it's in extended range mode (out of battery capacity, or in "hold" mode, which saves the battery for later, user-selectable), except the Gen2 Volt will actually couple the engine direct to the axles at times, depending on the efficiency advantage. It does this quite well, almost completely unnoticed.


I drove a Silverado Hybrid and was blown away--here's a 6.0L v8, this massive thing, and you couldn't even tell it was firing up. Silent and no vibration to speak of, a completely seamless handoff. Amazing.


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## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

soutthpaw said:


> Thanks for your reply, you mentioned the CA battery warranty, I'm looking at a 2016 that was originally sold by a California dealers and is one owner that was CA registered.
> Does this mean the longer battery warranty will carry over to me even though I don't live in CA


Emission systems/compliance packages are included and sold with the vehicle, so the warranty documentation will apply to the vehicle, not necessarily the purchaser. Most nearby states have techs in their shop who are CA emissions trained, or at least familiar and experienced, considering most emission warranty repairs don't always happen a block from home. If the "CA Emissions" code is on the RPO list, then it goes with the car, no matter where the car goes. The "Electric Vehicle System Warranty" covers more than just the battery. It covers most of the powertrain, including the ICE (which unlike other cars, is not a propulsion engine), generators ("transmission"), and associated electrics/electronics. The "Powertrain Warranty" basically covers the CV shafts, and little else, and you should know what they involve (a 1-beer job).

From a DIY mechanic's perspective, the only "chore" working on the Volt is, EVERYTHING external is sealed up. From the fully-enclosed wheel-well tubs, to the full undercarriage covers. The car is slippery, and except for a "relief" under the engine compartment (vents Voltec system cooling air), the only thing to see from underneath is a lot of carbon-glass cladding. Looks a lot like a Hot-Wheel car, really. Underhood, it has 3 independent liquid cooling systems, Engine, Traction Battery, and Electronics. The ICE accessory drive has only a coolant pump, with everything else driven from the high voltage electrical system. Everything is either stainless steel, cryo-treated steel, anodized aluminum, or some other corrosion resistant process. All the hoses appear to be Viton, but I haven't verified it. What remains is typical GM, and not too difficult to access. Jump starts are a bit tricky (in either direction, if necessary), so learn that early.


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## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

froyofanatic said:


> I drove a Silverado Hybrid and was blown away--here's a 6.0L v8, this massive thing, and you couldn't even tell it was firing up. Silent and no vibration to speak of, a completely seamless handoff. Amazing.


I've had the privilege, and they are sweet. The Volt is similar, in that unless in maintenance mode or in high demand, the engine is never heard or felt. It never idles unless in maintenance mode. It's either under load, or off. I often have to check the power flow display to see that it's actually on and running (it's that quiet). Different than other hybrids, the Volt's large battery is always available for traction, even when depleted and in extended range mode. The battery only uses about 75% of it's capacity (14 of its 19 kWH capacity), so it's never fully charged or fully discharged, which maximizes battery health and longevity. When in extended range mode, it uses the battery as a buffer, meaning it doesn't wait for the engine to move the car, using some of the reserve capacity, then replaces that power later. I'd REALLY like to see this level of technology applied to heavy duty pickups, not just 1/2 tons. I'd buy it. Especially if Diesel.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

DmaxMaverick said:


> Ma v e n said:
> 
> 
> > *The Malibu hybrid uses essentially the same tech as the Volt.* Expect to see it proliferate throughout other product lines as well. GM has it in layouts and capacities for fwd, awd and rwd vehicles.
> ...


Except for you're almost completely mistaken. They both have a regenerative braking systems that are virtually identical in function and hardware, they have virtually identical 5ET50 transmissions with the same dual motors, the use the same EV power electronics, and many of the same drive modes. The big difference is it has a battery less than 1/10 the capacity, so it won't go over 55mph on pure AC power, and you can't plug it in, so it uses fuel every day. Which is exactly what a Volt would if it had only a 1.5kw pack instead of an 18kw+. Just like the Volt the Malibu hybrid never moves with the electric motors off.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

I'm a few days late to this party, but I figured I'd chime in since I've owned both a diesel Cruze (1st gen) and a Volt (2nd gen).

I want to address a few things that have been mentioned on this thread:

Resale value: Neither of these cars will hold their value. It is really a myth that the diesels hold their value. Go check KBB or Edmunds for a 2014 or 2015 diesel Cruze and then check the exact same thing with a 2LT trim (closest gas trim to the diesel in first gen), and you'll find that the value of the 2LT is almost exactly the same or maybe just a few hundred dollars less which means the diesels have actually lost more value than their gas cousins seeing as their original MSRP was more than $2,000 higher than a similarly equipped gas Cruze. The Volt is similar but actually might hold just slightly more value than a Cruze. Ignore MSRP on the Volt - it's not real. Take whatever MSRP was and subtract $7,500 for the tax credit and start from there. It's not that far off of a diesel Cruze. Go back to KBB or Edmunds and compare a 2014 Volt to a 2014 diesel Cruze, and you'll likely find (varies by location) the Volt is worth more.

The second thing I saw brought up here was some concern over parts and access to repairs for the Volt. Personally one of the reasons I sold my Cruze was that very reason. The diesel Cruze is an orphan car far more than the Volt. I don't know about Gen 2, but there were fewer than 15,000 total Gen 1 diesel Cruzes made in North America with an engine not used anywhere else (it's even somewhat modified from its European origins) and a complex emissions system. Gen 2 has the slight advantage of sharing an engine with the diesel Equinox, but is still a relative orphan. By comparison the Volt has far more copies on the road with roughly 65-70,000 each of both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 (not including another several thousand in Canada). Additionally, while the Volt specifically might be going away electric and hybrid are not going away. I wouldn't be concerned about Volt support anytime soon.

I really enjoyed driving both cars. I'm not as familiar with the 2nd gen Cruze, so I can't speak for that one, but the 1st gen diesel Cruze was well mannered and a pleasure to drive. The Volt is equally good to drive and in some ways better (smoother, quieter, no shifting or turbo lag). My one minor gripe with the Volt handling is the rear suspension feels a little less refined than the 1st gen Cruze.

I will say that my primary consideration would be the type of commute you have. If it's mostly free and clear highway, that's where the diesel Cruze shines. The Volt does perfectly fine on the highway, but if you're looking for a purely electric commute, 60 miles is stretching the electric range limit even under the best conditions, and it tends to be a little less than 53 miles when driving at highway speeds. The diesel would handle that 60 miles like a champ. Conversely, if you have a lot of city driving or stop-and-go traffic, that is where the Volt really shines. The diesel does OK in the city (I drove mine in city traffic for 4 years), it loses a lot of it's advantage in city driving vs. smooth highway driving.

Frankly, I think it really comes down to your own personal preference. 



DmaxMaverick said:


> There are almost no similarities. The Voltec system is unique to only the Volt, which is an electric vehicle with a range extending system (the ICE generator), NOT a "hybrid", and doesn't, nor ever has, operated as a hybrid. They require the same fuel, but that's about where it ends.


2nd gen Volt and Malibu Hybrid use the same 5ET50 transmission just with slightly different programming. The Volt is most definitely a hybrid - especially the 2nd gen which actually couples the gas engine directly to the drive wheels at times.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

PanJet said:


> I really enjoyed driving both cars. I'm not as familiar with the 2nd gen Cruze, so I can't speak for that one, but the 1st gen diesel Cruze was well mannered and a pleasure to drive. The Volt is equally good to drive and in some ways better (smoother, quieter, no shifting or turbo lag). My one minor gripe with the Volt handling is the rear suspension feels a little less refined than the 1st gen Cruze.


Yep - the Volt is an absolute blast to drive - especially with the combination of a low center of gravity combined with a very soft ride - you have very little body roll, due to the CG being so low, yet the car rides _really_ well. But I absolute agree about the rear end - you can feel it shimmy over certain conditions (there's one spot I drive over ever ride home that does that). I has had me wonder, more than once, if it'd be possible to adapt the watts link (Z-link) from the Cruze. Obviously it wouldn't be a bolt-on, but one from a 2nd gen Cruze should fit the torsion beam. Perhaps the UR rear bar or a rear sway bar would solve some of that, as the massive rear sway bar on my Cobalt definitely took almost all of that feeling away (though it didn't have it nearly as bad).


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## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

Ma v e n said:


> Except for you're almost completely mistaken. They both have a regenerative braking systems that are virtually identical in function and hardware, they have virtually identical 5ET50 transmissions with the same dual motors, the use the same EV power electronics, and many of the same drive modes. The big difference is it has a battery less than 1/10 the capacity, so it won't go over 55mph on pure AC power, and you can't plug it in, so it uses fuel every day. Which is exactly what a Volt would if it had only a 1.5kw pack instead of an 18kw+. Just like the Volt the Malibu hybrid never moves with the electric motors off.





PanJet said:


> 2nd gen Volt and Malibu Hybrid use the same 5ET50 transmission just with slightly different programming. The Volt is most definitely a hybrid - especially the 2nd gen which actually couples the gas engine directly to the drive wheels at times.


You're redefining what is hybrid and what is EV vs. HEV. Primary operational design is key, and the hardware follows. The Malibu Hybrid has 2 drive modes (on or off), while the Volt has 5 user selectable, and numerous automated. The "5ET50" transmission is more of a form factor, than an actual component. Internal component parts are as different as their external programming, more specific to the electric motor engineering and practical utilization. The fit in the same box, but are not the same. It's merely a logical conclusion they would share some technology and components. No necessity to reinvent the wheel. The programming and primary operation design is key, in that, while both have EV and HEV operational modes, similar in many respects, they are hardly the same. The Malibu Hybrid has an EV operation mode, and the Volt has an HEV operation mode, they are secondary to primary operation, only similar in the respect both take advantage of a coincidental efficiency availabilities. They simply take advantage of existing conditions that increases efficiency. The Malibu requires engine operation to sustain propulsion. The Volt does not. With the exception of maintenance and climate demand modes, the Volt can operate indefinitely w/o ICE engagement. No current hybrid can or will do this, including the Prius plug-in, and very few of the current PHEV classes have the designed ability. The Malibu doesn't have, or need, the maintenance modes necessary for the Volt. It is not anticipated that, under normal operation as designed, the Malibu will have a need to track fuel age or engine maintenance. If you're driving the Malibu, you're using the engine. In my personal experience with the Gen 2 Volt, EV usage remains around 85%, resulting in 250 MPGe over 53K miles. Engine or fuel maintenance modes have never automatically engaged, although warnings have appeared. The Malibu cannot be rated the same, because it simply doesn't have that operational mode. The Malibu's EV mode is incidental to its required HEV operation. The same can be said of the Volt's HEV mode being incidental to EV operation, but only as it applies to EREV operation, which is by no means, required.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Most of my fuel-ups in my Volt are such a high number of miles (5-6k), they break Fuelly. And by "most", I mean two out of the three (ignoring the initial fill-up right after the car was delivered to me). Even the third was still 1700 miles.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

When you take a Volt out on the Interstate for a 250 mile drive (say Los Angeles to Las Vegas) it’s all electric for the 1st 60-70 miles then what? 

Specifically, does the ICE propel the Volt directly like a conventional car or indirectly by charging the battery that powers electric motors?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> When you take a Volt out on the Interstate for a 250 mile drive (say Los Angeles to Las Vegas) it’s all electric for the 1st 60-70 miles then what?


Using my Gen 2 as an example, no, it won't get anywhere near 60-70 miles of highway speed driving, as the motor is far less efficient there than it is at lower speeds. So what I do (and most owners, I would imagine) is use the "Hold" mode, which starts the ICE, and brings us to the next point below.



Rivergoer said:


> Specifically, does the ICE propel the Volt directly like a conventional car or indirectly by charging the battery that powers electric motors?


Yes.

I believe it was mentioned a page or two back, so it's further than I want to look, but the ICE in the Gen 2 _usually_ acts as the latter, _but_ can sometimes directly drive the wheels if the vehicle determines that is more efficient. I don't believe the Gen 1 had that ability, and the ICE acted solely as a generator, but I could be incorrect.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

So what MPGe could one expect from a Volt on a 250 mile Interstate run? 

The Diesel can achieve 50-60 mpg, curious how Volt compares to Diesel on extended highway only.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It'll probably average out to the MPG of the gasoline engine, which does mid-upper 40s, depending on how fast you're driving and HVAC usage. 

I can't say I've looked at the instantaneous MPGe of the electric motor at freeway speeds, but I'd guess it's somewhere around 70 or 80 MPGe.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

its retarded that you cannot track the electricity usage in the volt...without that there is no real way to calculate running cost.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

boraz said:


> its retarded that you cannot track the electricity usage in the volt...without that there is no real way to calculate running cost.


https://smile.amazon.com/bayite-BAYITE-PZEM-061-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Transformer/dp/B00YY1KOHA


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Taxman said:


> https://smile.amazon.com/bayite-BAYITE-PZEM-061-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Transformer/dp/B00YY1KOHA


in the software the volt provides.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It does online. It's a little less comprehensive than what I'd like - but it tracks how many kW you used.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

MP81 said:


> It does online. It's a little less comprehensive than what I'd like - but it tracks how many kW you used.


How much came out of the battery, or how much came from the power company?

If you meter the outlet the EVSE is plugged into, you'll know how much the car is adding to your power bill.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Neither - kW usage while driving the vehicle. 

It doesn't track how much you charge, which is a little odd. For mine, I know my electric bill went up about $30 a month, or so - slightly more in winter, since it uses more of the battery (preconditioning, increased rolling resistance, winter tires, seat and steering wheel heater, defroster, etc). 

But I save roughly $150-200 in gas, so it's a huge improvement. Plus not having to take the time to fill up on a more-than-weekly basis.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

DmaxMaverick said:


> soutthpaw said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your reply, you mentioned the CA battery warranty, I'm looking at a 2016 that was originally sold by a California dealers and is one owner that was CA registered.
> ...


Regardless of whether or not the car qualifies for CA Emissions (specifically the TZEV requirements required for the extended warranty on battery, electric drivetrain and emissions components), the car must be registered in a state that follows the California TZEV rules in order to get the extended warranty. This is explicitly stated in the GM Warranty Manual. Currently, those states are CA, OR, CT, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, RI, and VT. If your car is not registered in one of those states, it does not get the extended warranty.

It is also important to note that not all Volts qualify, even in CA. For Gen 2 Volts, if your VIN has a C or D as the fifth character, then it qualifies. However, if it has an A or a B, it does not qualify even if it is sold and/or registered in CA or one of the other states above. There have been incidences of dealers in one of the states listed above getting cars originally delivered to non-participating states (dealer trades, etc.) and consumers unknowingly purchasing these cars and not qualifying for state tax rebates, extended warranty, or HOV lane access in California.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

DmaxMaverick said:


> You're redefining what is hybrid and what is EV vs. HEV.


The Volt is capable of propulsion by electric motors, an ICE engine, or a combination of both, which is the very definition of a hybrid. The fact that it can theoretically drive indefinitely without ICE power is irrelevant. Theoretically all hybrids, plug in or not, are capable of propulsion of some level on electric power alone. The Volt just has far more electric capability and a large enough battery to support it than nearly all other hybrids. The Volt has two power sources which can independently propel the car and is therefore a hybrid.


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## soutthpaw (Dec 14, 2018)

PanJet said:


> Regardless of whether or not the car qualifies for CA Emissions (specifically the TZEV requirements required for the extended warranty on battery, electric drivetrain and emissions components), the car must be registered in a state that follows the California TZEV rules in order to get the extended warranty. This is explicitly stated in the GM Warranty Manual. Currently, those states are CA, OR, CT, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, RI, and VT. If your car is not registered in one of those states, it does not get the extended warranty.
> 
> It is also important to note that not all Volts qualify, even in CA. For Gen 2 Volts, if your VIN has a C or D as the fifth character, then it qualifies. However, if it has an A or a B, it does not qualify even if it is sold and/or registered in CA or one of the other states above. There have been incidences of dealers in one of the states listed above getting cars originally delivered to non-participating states (dealer trades, etc.) and consumers unknowingly purchasing these cars and not qualifying for state tax rebates, extended warranty, or HOV lane access in California.


Thanks, this vehicle has a C as it's 5th digit in the VIN. It will not be registered in CA, but when it gets closer to warranty expiration I could register it at my dad's house in CA. Which hopefully would add back the 2 years, 50k extra warranty.


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## DmaxMaverick (Jun 29, 2014)

PanJet said:


> The Volt is capable of propulsion by electric motors, an ICE engine, or a combination of both, which is the very definition of a hybrid. The fact that it can theoretically drive indefinitely without ICE power is irrelevant. Theoretically all hybrids, plug in or not, are capable of propulsion of some level on electric power alone. The Volt just has far more electric capability and a large enough battery to support it than nearly all other hybrids. The Volt has two power sources which can independently propel the car and is therefore a hybrid.


The ability to operate as a "hybrid" is incidental. It's also a feature that can be used at will. It isn't compulsory. It does so only because of the existing advantage, and cleverly designed into the system to maximize efficiency during very specific conditions. It isn't a primary design. By your definition, many "hybrids" are not hybrids. As I said, no other "hybrid" can operate w/o the ICE under normal operation. Perhaps the Prius plug-in, but you'd have to limit your trips to the battery capacity (abysmal), and never exceed 30% acceleration. Hardly normal. Every one of them require ICE engagement for normal acceleration, like freeway merging, passing, or operating above a specific speed. The Volt does not, in fact, have two power sources that can independently propel the car. Absent the SOC, it doesn't move. At all. At any speed under any condition. Operating "like" a hybrid at specific times does not make it a hybrid. It's an added ability. Also, the Volt is a certified ZEV, or more specifically, a capable ZEV for this discussion. No Prius or other "hybrid" can claim that.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ultimate, the Gen-2 Volt is a Series/Parallel hybrid, as it can do both. "Normal" hybrids are just Parallel. The Gen-1 Volt was, I believe, an entirely-Series Hybrid, as the engine could never propel the vehicle.

The Gen-2 Volt is almost always a Series Hybrid, but in instances does operate as a Parallel Hybrid, if it makes more sense - mainly on the freeway. In the city, it's going to be Series, with the engine acting solely as a generator.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

DmaxMaverick said:


> Operating "like" a hybrid at specific times does not make it a hybrid. It's an added ability. Also, the Volt is a certified ZEV, or more specifically, a capable ZEV for this discussion. No Prius or other "hybrid" can claim that.


Once again, false. The Volt is in fact not a ZEV but rather a TZEV - a designnation given to PHEVs. The Volt shares this designation with nearly every PHEV on the road including the Prius Prime, the Hyundai Ioniq, etc etc.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/eligible-carpool-sticker-list

It is not “my” definition of hybrid. Nearly every classification of the Volt aside from yours considers the Volt a hybrid - a PHEV, a plug-in hybrid. It has two sources of power. It is a hybrid. In that list from CARB in the link above, please take special note of the BMW I3. The electric version which has no ICE is classified as a ZEV Electric car. Get the optional range extender (ICE), and it automatically becomes a TZEV plug-in hybrid even though its electric capabilities are unchanged from the version with no ICE onboard. The I3 with a range extender is even more than the Volt what you are describing - an electric car with the added capability of a range extender. Throw in an ICE, even for “incidental” usage, and it becomes a hybrid by nearly every classification.

A Tesla is not a hybrid. A Bolt is not a hybrid. An I-Pace is not a hybrid. A Cruze is not a hybrid. A Volt is a hybrid.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

The Malibu hybrid, also does not have two sources of power which can allow the vehicle to operate and move. Just like a Volt, if the HV battery has insufficient SOC the vehicle is dead in the water. It can't be jump started, it can't be push started. If the HV system is inoperative the vehicle won't move and it can't start the ICE.

The 5ET50 is more than a "form factor" or just the physical shape of the box. It denotes it's physical size and shape, it's drive layout and function and torque capacity. The two transmissions have the same final drive ratio, the same planetary gearing, the same control systems and power electronics(although with differing calibrations due to the difference in battery capacity and vehicle size/weight) the only truly notable difference is that the Malibu has a more powerful motor A and a less powerful motor B inside the drive unit. So while the Malibu has slightly less horsepower(176 vs 181) it actually has more torque (296 vs 293)

These differences are attributed to the variances in ICE and HV battery capacity. If the Malibu had the battery capacity I can only imagine it would have been given the "missing" powertrains operation mode as compared for the Volt as well, which is single motor EV operation. Your mention of user selectable modes is immaterial to the fact that as I mentioned these vehicles share nearly identical tech, and also operate in nearly identical ways. 

The Malibu is what the Volt would be if you couldn't plug it in. I think it's an excellent and appropriate use of the tech and functionality, and what's they should've done with it, electricity an existing vehicle. Like I said, expect to see it proliferate throughout the range as GM continues on its goal to offer electrified versions of every model they sell. And FYI, the CT6 PiHEV is also same tech just RWD. And it's what you'll see in trucks, SUV, and Camaros as well as the ATS and CATS replacements


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## soutthpaw (Dec 14, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

soutthpaw said:


> Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.


net or gross $2000?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

soutthpaw said:


> Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.


Glad to hear it!

Even if you get on the freeway, as long as you behave yourself, high 40s is easily attainable.

My buddy has a '17 and has determined that if you stay at 70 mph or below, you should be sitting around 47 MPG (assuming no AC or Heat), but at 71 mph, the "level" the ICE runs at (it's not linear) bumps up, and it'll drop down to about 45 MPG - but that "level" stays about consistent until 85 mph - so you can get roughly 45 MPG even at 80-85 mph.


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## soutthpaw (Dec 14, 2018)

boraz said:


> net or gross $2000?


Well I just estimated my Forester is rated at 28mpg highway. So 25000 miles/28 X $3 a gallon fuel estimate cost. That comes out to about $2700 a year for fuel purchase cost. on 80% electric miles is $2160 saved. Nevada has free charging publicly till 2021 I believe. I can charge at home free, for reasons. I can also fully charge at work in 110vac during my shift or use charger across street at theater. 

I had a great deal setup on a new 18 orange diesel hatch. ($20190 plus tax doc and license) The color I wanted, but I'm old enough,'for good or bad, to put practically ahead of what I really liked most for aesthetic reasons. The fuel savings is basically half my monthly payment.


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## soutthpaw (Dec 14, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Glad to hear it!
> 
> Even if you get on the freeway, as long as you behave yourself, high 40s is easily attainable.
> 
> My buddy has a '17 and has determined that if you stay at 70 mph or below, you should be sitting around 47 MPG (assuming no AC or Heat), but at 71 mph, the "level" the ICE runs at (it's not linear) bumps up, and it'll drop down to about 45 MPG - but that "level" stays about consistent until 85 mph - so you can get roughly 45 MPG even at 80-85 mph.


Good to know, my drive is all 4 lane, ½ highway @60mph ½[email protected] Mostly flat with mild grades.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

How many miles each way (I estimated that based on 25k miles a year, that's about 50 miles each way?)? I noticed you said you can charge at work, so that may be a major help in reducing gas usage.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

soutthpaw said:


> I can charge at home free, for reasons.


I need more details on this.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

soutthpaw said:


> Thanks for the replies. Ended up buying a 2016 Volt LT this afternoon from a Chevy dealer. 26k miles, certified pre owned. Right at the same price the new 18 diesel cruze deal I had pending. 80% of my work commute on electric just made more sense. I'll be saving over $2k in fuel costs a year.


Congrats! Good to hear. I think you’ll be very pleased with the Volt.


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## Christoph (Dec 12, 2021)

DmaxMaverick said:


> The ability to operate as a "hybrid" is incidental. It's also a feature that can be used at will. It isn't compulsory. It does so only because of the existing advantage, and cleverly designed into the system to maximize efficiency during very specific conditions. It isn't a primary design. By your definition, many "hybrids" are not hybrids. As I said, no other "hybrid" can operate w/o the ICE under normal operation. Perhaps the Prius plug-in, but you'd have to limit your trips to the battery capacity (abysmal), and never exceed 30% acceleration. Hardly normal. Every one of them require ICE engagement for normal acceleration, like freeway merging, passing, or operating above a specific speed. The Volt does not, in fact, have two power sources that can independently propel the car. Absent the SOC, it doesn't move. At all. At any speed under any condition. Operating "like" a hybrid at specific times does not make it a hybrid. It's an added ability. Also, the Volt is a certified ZEV, or more specifically, a capable ZEV for this discussion. No Prius or other "hybrid" can claim that.


Boom! Nailed it. The Volt truly is unique. To call it a hybrid completely glosses over the nuances of what makes it unique. The most similar vehicle is likely the Prius Prime plug in hybrid. But as you said, its electric-only range is abysmal. More importantly, the electric motor somehow manages to be so anemic that attempting to accelerate at a rate that wouldn't have following motorists blaring their horn at you forces the gas engine to kick in to help move things along. Even at that though, it's an astonishingly slow accelerating vehicle. Like so slow that you'd think that Toyota's primary objective was to make an electrified vehicle so boring and unappealing that they can argue that consumers don't want them, so as to have an excuse to continue making gas burners and stall the EV revolution.

Now, if we compare the Volt to a pure range extended EV, like the i3 REx I cross shopped it against, it has some major advantages. The Volt can operate as a proper hybrid instead of simply running a glorified lawnmower engine to recharge the battery as you simultaneously drain said battery whilst powering the wheels like the i3 REx. Instead the Volt can run in whatever configuration is most efficient. It can even send power directly from the gas engine to the wheels when driving conditions dictate that that is more efficient. This means it's technically a plug in hybrid not a range extended EV like the i3 REx, which sounds like a bad thing but is actually a good thing. Burning gas to turn a generator to charge a battery to discharge a battery to power an electric motor to drive the wheels is a lot of energy conversations, meaning lots of energy lost in the process. Those is why, when burning gas, a Volt is vastly more efficient than an i3 REx.

I like to describe the Volt as a hybrid between an EV and a hybrid. It's an EV for daily driving but can transform into a hybrid on roadtrips. There really is no other vehicle on the road that genuinely offers this capability in real world driving. I only wish it could charge faster to swing that pendulum a little more towards EV than hybrid on road trips. That's my one complaint with the vehicle. Most probably wouldn't care, but I do.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Christoph said:


> Boom! Nailed it. The Volt truly is unique. To call it a hybrid completely glosses over the nuances of what makes it unique. The most similar vehicle is likely the Prius Prime plug in hybrid. But as you said, its electric-only range is abysmal. More importantly, the electric motor somehow manages to be so anemic that attempting to accelerate at a rate that wouldn't have following motorists blaring their horn at you forces the gas engine to kick in to help move things along. Even at that though, it's an astonishingly slow accelerating vehicle. Like so slow that you'd think that Toyota's primary objective was to make an electrified vehicle so boring and unappealing that they can argue that consumers don't want them, so as to have an excuse to continue making gas burners and stall the EV revolution.
> 
> Now, if we compare the Volt to a pure range extended EV, like the i3 REx I cross shopped it against, it has some major advantages. The Volt can operate as a proper hybrid instead of simply running a glorified lawnmower engine to recharge the battery as you simultaneously drain said battery whilst powering the wheels like the i3 REx. Instead the Volt can run in whatever configuration is most efficient. It can even send power directly from the gas engine to the wheels when driving conditions dictate that that is more efficient. This means it's technically a plug in hybrid not a range extended EV like the i3 REx, which sounds like a bad thing but is actually a good thing. Burning gas to turn a generator to charge a battery to discharge a battery to power an electric motor to drive the wheels is a lot of energy conversations, meaning lots of energy lost in the process. Those is why, when burning gas, a Volt is vastly more efficient than an i3 REx.
> 
> I like to describe the Volt as a hybrid between an EV and a hybrid. It's an EV for daily driving but can transform into a hybrid on roadtrips. There really is no other vehicle on the road that genuinely offers this capability in real world driving. I only wish it could charge faster to swing that pendulum a little more towards EV than hybrid on road trips. That's my one complaint with the vehicle. Most probably wouldn't care, but I do.


Welcome Aboard!

Don't forget to introduce yourself and your Volt here.


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