# achilles heel def system



## Nuke108 (Sep 1, 2014)

dieselbrnr said:


> 24,000 miles 1 def injector replacement 2 ox sensor replacement 1 nox sensor replacement . system is doomed for continuous failure. Hello lemon Law......goodbye GM. yeah I got the same story use just GM DEF.......except that it is the only thing that has been put in by the dealer and Im still getting sensor failures. Guess I should just schedule my appointments on a twice monthly basis ahead of time or better yet just apply for a job at the dealer. I am completely disgusted.


You're scaring me. I just bought one Friday and its in the shop now for a dpf sensor replacement. Tell me I don't have this to look forward to? Is your driving mostly city or highway or both? I bought this thing so I can save costs on my commute which is highway. 
14 summit white with 500 miles on it.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

We truly apologize to hear of the difficulties that you have been experiencing, dieselbrnr. Please let us know if further assistance is needed with your concern. We can certainly contact your dealership and discuss this further with them. If we're needed, feel free to send us a private message in reference to this thread. We look forward to helping with your concern!

Kristen A.
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Nuke108 said:


> You're scaring me. I just bought one Friday and its in the shop now for a dpf sensor replacement. Tell me I don't have this to look forward to? Is your driving mostly city or highway or both? I bought this thing so I can save costs on my commute which is highway.
> 14 summit white with 500 miles on it.


There seem to be a handful of members with chronic emissions problems on the Diesels, but that seems to be confined to a very small number of vehicles (probably fewer than a half dozen). A couple of members have had single-incident problems with a sensor that were fixed on the first attempt without reoccurring, but most of us have been problem free for 20,000 to 80,000 miles. Odds are you will have nothing to worry about. 

My first 8 months/16,000 miles were mostly highway, but over the summer when classes aren't in session I didn't have my usual highway commute. During those 4 months I put on 4000 miles almost all in-town, and didn't even get the "Keep driving" message that pops up when a regen must urgently complete.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

14 months 25000ks an zero issues.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Don't let reports of issues scare you. Remember that forums like this are literally electromagnets for people who have issues with their cars, especially if they are in the mood to vent about it. As a result, there is a disproportional number of people who have issues to those who don't, as the ones who do are far more likely to talk about it. 

Given the number of people on this forum who don't have this issue, I'd say it is not a big concern.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Mine runs like a charm after one year and 21,000 miles. Would gladly add another to my fleet.


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## Su8pack1 (Apr 17, 2014)

I've had 2 codes. The NOX sensor, cleaned by dealer and so far so good. The 02 sensor, I reset and has not come back.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Nuke108 said:


> You're scaring me. I just bought one Friday and its in the shop now for a dpf sensor replacement. Tell me I don't have this to look forward to? Is your driving mostly city or highway or both? I bought this thing so I can save costs on my commute which is highway.
> 14 summit white with 500 miles on it.


there is no dpf sensor...there are several sensors dealing with it...temp, press, nox...upstreams and downstreams, etc...

which sensor is bad?


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## Nuke108 (Sep 1, 2014)

boraz said:


> there is no dpf sensor...there are several sensors dealing with it...temp, press, nox...upstreams and downstreams, etc...
> 
> which sensor is bad?


Apologies you are correct. They replaced the NOX Sensor. 
I got the car back today around 5 pm and they put a hundred miles on it when they had it. I drove it a hundred more and so far no problems! I have a lot of faith in this car and I think it'll work out over the long haul. Most of my driving is highway and plus I work the night shift so traffic is always minimal.


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## cmsdock (Feb 16, 2014)

Nuke108 said:


> Apologies you are correct. They replaced the NOX Sensor.
> I got the car back today around 5 pm and they put a hundred miles on it when they had it. I drove it a hundred more and so far no problems! I have a lot of faith in this car and I think it'll work out over the long haul. Most of my driving is highway and plus I work the night shift so traffic is always minimal.


same here except in the morning on the way home i have occasional slow down. 200 miles a day adds up quick.


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## Nuke108 (Sep 1, 2014)

Wow! I used to do that commute years earlier with a gas corolla for years. Finally blew the darn thing up and put a junk yard motor in only to lose the trans shortly there after. I drive a total of about 80 miles round trip now and I love how stubborn the fuel gauge is in these cars. My bro just bought the TDI Jetta a week ago and I bought the Cruze. We are of course in competition to see how they fair. He doesn't have the DEF tank I can't imagine why we need it either. Is GM just trying to go the extra mile for EPA brownie points?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Nuke108 said:


> Wow! I used to do that commute years earlier with a gas corolla for years. Finally blew the darn thing up and put a junk yard motor in only to lose the trans shortly there after. I drive a total of about 80 miles round trip now and I love how stubborn the fuel gauge is in these cars. My bro just bought the TDI Jetta a week ago and I bought the Cruze. We are of course in competition to see how they fair. He doesn't have the DEF tank I can't imagine why we need it either. Is GM just trying to go the extra mile for EPA brownie points?


Search the forums further, the '15 jetta has it. Why, because it's better.


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## nebojsa (Jan 3, 2011)

I plan on keeping my 2013 ECO at least 5 years. Will se how it works out.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Nuke108 said:


> Apologies you are correct. They replaced the NOX Sensor.
> I got the car back today around 5 pm and they put a hundred miles on it when they had it. I drove it a hundred more and so far no problems! I have a lot of faith in this car and I think it'll work out over the long haul. Most of my driving is highway and plus I work the night shift so traffic is always minimal.


10-4

yeah, if we are reporting failures, i wanna see WHAT is failing and most often....theres 11ty sensors, just wanted specifics thats all, and there are some with this car with ZERO def/dpf experience, not even any reading on them prior to purchase so just want facts out there to show whats what and calm the needless panic

they should be easily fixed cuz all they do is hook computers up and replace the parts the computer tells them too

availability of parts HAS been an issue, that should get better


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

If the cars didn't use the DEF system they would use an EGR emission system that has its own issues. The DEF system is what all MFG will be going to so they can meet the new emission standards using ultra low sulfer diesel fuel. I admit to early problems but now at 26K miles and no issues in 14K miles. My buddy bought the same car shortly after I purchased mine, same color too, and he has had zero problems driving the same amount as we both drive 125 miles a day.


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## ParisTNDude (Oct 7, 2013)

I had an early "poor DEF quality" warning and took it to the dealership even though the warning apparently went away on it's own and has never recurred. 

I think the systems are set to trigger a fault at the earliest sign of a problem which may even be within the lower tolerance limits. I was having this problem concurrent with an 02 sensor and after the dealership replaced that sensor, the car has been running and happily driving perfectly. We now have 20,000 + miles on it and wouldn't trade it for any other economy car...period!


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## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

As stated before I think that there may have just been a bad batch.

Could happen to any car from any manufacturer

For the record I have 29k and climbing fast with no issues thus far.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

warloc said:


> If the cars didn't use the DEF system they would use an EGR emission system that has its own issues. The DEF system is what all MFG will be going to so they can meet the new emission standards using ultra low sulfer diesel fuel. I admit to early problems but now at 26K miles and no issues in 14K miles. My buddy bought the same car shortly after I purchased mine, same color too, and he has had zero problems driving the same amount as we both drive 125 miles a day.


diesel cruze uses egr as well


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## Roadburner440 (Dec 29, 2013)

Yeah the Cruze uses EGR, but supposedly the DPF/DEF system allows it to use less EGR than a normal diesel which is fine by me. You guys drive a lot more miles in comparison to me which makes me wonder about whether I made the right choice. I have a 10 mile drive on highway to and from work (20 total a day). So far only at 1800 miles with no issues. I mainly went with the TD so I wouldn't have to fill up on road trips until I got to my destination, and I liked the power. Guess we will see how it pans out as it seems I am one of the lowest mileage drivers on here. Seeing all of the issues with the DPF/DEF system has gotten me slightly concerned cause of how short my drive is, but we will see I suppose.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Roadburner440 said:


> Yeah the Cruze uses EGR, but supposedly the DPF/DEF system allows it to use less EGR than a normal diesel which is fine by me. You guys drive a lot more miles in comparison to me which makes me wonder about whether I made the right choice. I have a 10 mile drive on highway to and from work (20 total a day). So far only at 1800 miles with no issues. I mainly went with the TD so I wouldn't have to fill up on road trips until I got to my destination, and I liked the power. Guess we will see how it pans out as it seems I am one of the lowest mileage drivers on here. Seeing all of the issues with the DPF/DEF system has gotten me slightly concerned cause of how short my drive is, but we will see I suppose.


with you driving i'd feel more comfortable with a dpf monitor to be able to watch what was goin on.

up until a month ago, my driving was 400 mile trip for work 3x a month, then the odd short trip, but 95% of the miles was the 3 trips

back then i got driven to and from my work house to work, but now i gotta drive myself...so add 13 mile each way to and from work everyday

my avg mpg drops cuz of this, and so does my concern aboot the dpf

really want to monitor the dpf status, considering edge insight monitor like this guy http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/169-...70-how-install-gauge-monitor-w-egt-probe.html


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## dieselbrnr (Sep 17, 2013)

Good luck my friend. They once again replaced the o2 sensor. Claim that the regen cycle is not hot enough to keep the sensors clean thus the repeated failures. they also claim that gm is working on a algorithm fix for the programming to eliminate this but they don't know just when and if this can be applied. I am waiting for the next failure of the emissions system 4X and then I will start the Lemon Law Procedure. Im retired but I can just imagine how pissed off the working guy would be with this many trips to the dealer.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Just to throw this in the mix. For several months, I drove 4 days a week in heavy traffic during winter months, short trips to and from work. It did not adversely affect my driving experience. I am at 81K miles now and only had one exhaust gas temperature sensor throw a CEL at 61K miles. Sensor was replaced and it's been fine since. I and several others with higher mileage are proof that this is generally a good powertrain. Forums do attract a disproportionate number of people that have issues with their cars. Compare our forum to the Maserati Ghibli forum and you will see that the Cruze is relatively trouble free. Not to minimize the issues that some are having. I feel for you and know it is a royal PITA to buy a new car only to have issues with it. We are all a test bed for new technology, and hopefully GM will learn from it and make continuous improvements.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Chevy Customer Care said:


> We truly apologize to hear of the difficulties that you have been experiencing, dieselbrnr. Please let us know if further assistance is needed with your concern. We can certainly contact your dealership and discuss this further with them. If we're needed, feel free to send us a private message in reference to this thread. We look forward to helping with your concern!
> 
> Kristen A.
> Chevrolet Customer Care


I asked customer care for help and got no help at all. Car has been at McGuire Chevrolet for over a month and they are just throwing parts at it that dont even have anything to do with the system. They clearly have no idea how to fix it.


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## dieselbrnr (Sep 17, 2013)

Scott M Hey I hear you. Very similar situation. But I cant blame McGuire they only have the tools to work with as to what GM gives them. Some on this forum have had good luck, I haven't. Hopefully GM will find a resolution to this issue. I am just relaying the issues I have had on this forum after all is it not its intended use to share the info with other CCD owners?


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## dieselbrnr (Sep 17, 2013)

Boraz, gottcha, but this is why we bounce off of each other on this forum. To keep us in the know with the sharing of info.


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

11 months, 19000 miles. The only DEF issue is a certain dealer whose definition of "filing up the DEF" was adding a gallon to the tank. grrrr


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Scott M. said:


> I asked customer care for help and got no help at all. Car has been at McGuire Chevrolet for over a month and they are just throwing parts at it that dont even have anything to do with the system. They clearly have no idea how to fix it.



We apologize if we were unable to resolve your concerns to your satisfaction in the past, Scott. We understand your Cruze is still being serviced at the dealership and understand it is frustrating to not have your vehicle. If you have any vehicle concerns moving forward, please know we'll do our best to address them for you.

Best,
Amber N.
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Just heard from the dealer today. They say GM engineering is sending them a DPF on the 16th !!!! I asked them to explain to me what the DPF has to to with the DEF system and they said they don't know they are just doing what GM tells them. This is very frustrating. I could understand if they wanted to change the SCR but waiting until the 16th to change a DPF makes little sense to me. I love this car but have lost confidence in GM. A DPF has no moving parts in it. Its just a filter. In the unlikely event that it does fix my problem it only means I will need another one in 40,000 miles.


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

dieselbrnr said:


> Good luck my friend. They once again replaced the o2 sensor. Claim that the regen cycle is not hot enough to keep the sensors clean thus the repeated failures. they also claim that gm is working on a algorithm fix for the programming to eliminate this but they don't know just when and if this can be applied. I am waiting for the next failure of the emissions system 4X and then I will start the Lemon Law Procedure. Im retired but I can just imagine how pissed off the working guy would be with this many trips to the dealer.


I was almost positive that I read on another thread on this site that GM has released (and has installed) an update for those experiencing the issue related to the exhaust gases not being hot enough to keep the sensors clean. http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ge...m-failure-again-9300-miles-6.html#post1327898 (bottom of page 4)


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Scott M. said:


> Just heard from the dealer today. They say GM engineering is sending them a DPF on the 16th !!!! I asked them to explain to me what the DPF has to to with the DEF system and they said they don't know they are just doing what GM tells them. This is very frustrating. I could understand if they wanted to change the SCR but waiting until the 16th to change a DPF makes little sense to me. I love this car but have lost confidence in GM. A DPF has no moving parts in it. Its just a filter. In the unlikely event that it does fix my problem it only means I will need another one in 40,000 miles.


the filters are fragile

it could be fuel soaked beyond repair, could have holes in it, couldve fallen out of the clamps, etc...

all that said, the mechanics have lil experience with the system

i think thats where most of the issue is


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## Johnny H (Apr 30, 2014)

boraz said:


> the filters are fragile
> 
> it could be fuel soaked beyond repair, could have holes in it, couldve fallen out of the clamps, etc...
> 
> ...


In my limited modern diesel knowledge, I believe that the DPF should be thought of as its own type of exhaust/combustion chamber. With exhaust temperatures between 600 to 800 degrees, it gets hot enough to burn off or self clean the DPF. If not, then it must act as its own low pressure combustion chamber during regen cycles. This means that sensors need to monitor temps and pressures during regen to get it hot enough to clean itself. If a DPF seam, leak or fracture is present, it cannot function correctly, and may allow soot to accumulate on the sensitive sensors, including downstream SCR/DEF and o2 sensors. Replacing a bad DPF may well be prudent after all, especially seeing that previous multiple sensor issues have been present prior. Any experts out may feel free to correct what I have said as again I am learning also.

Johnny H


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

I remain hopeful but skeptical. If a DPF fixes my problem I won't argue with success.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Search the forums further, the '15 jetta has it. Why, because it's better.


Does the 15 Jetta still have room for a spare tyre as well?


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## fred20 (Apr 26, 2014)

No sensor issues here yet after 8k, mostly highway, I've done some days with a lot of city and traffic jams however. Even let idle for two nights in a row for 45 mins each on lunch break in 40 degree temps with no problems


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