# Subwoofer Advice



## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

Hey Guys, I'm looking for some input.

I just finished my SQL install (Dayton/Seas), and swapped out my JL W3V3-2 for an IDQ 10" v3 d2. 

I've only got about an hour of use on the IDQ, and I really do LOVE the way it sounds. Quality wise, it's hands down the best sounding sub I've ever had in any vehicle I've owned. I'm running the sub at a 4 ohm load putting 300 watts to it from a JL Amp.

The only negative I've got is that it isn't really as loud as I'd like. I don't think upping the power is really going to help, so I'm toying around with the idea of dropping a 12" or 15" in the trunk along with the 10". I'm leaning toward a 12" IDQ V3, getting a new amp and putting around 400 watts to it, I think that would sort things out volume wise, and "should" sound great. With this setup when I need my trunk space it would be pretty easy to pop out the fuse to the big sub and remove it from the trunk, the 10" in the stealth enclosure would stay in place. Glad I ran 2ga wire now!

If I had this to do over again I'd have gone with dual IDQ 12"s and just gave up some trunk... But I'm at where I'm at since can't really return this stuff now.

Before I go through with it I'm going to give the 10" a few weeks, I've heard subs get a little louder when they're broken in. (or maybe its the ears that get broken in) and see how I feel then.

What do you guys think about dropping in another sub/amp? Any reason not to mix subwoofer sizes? Some of you guys out there are WAY more knowledgeable than I am on the science of this stuff so that's why I'm asking.

Thanks!
Jason

*Update:*

_Problem solved... 

Ok so I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. It turns out my bass boost was set waaaay to high when I was setting my gains and I didn't realize it, so I was getting distortion before I got the gain dial half way. After looking over my amp and resetting the gain it sounds pretty darn good. For comparison with the same amp and 200 less watts than the JL W3 (4 ohm load with IDQ vs 2 Ohm with the W3) I was running I'd say it's about 80% of the volume of the W3, but it sounds so much better. Thanks for your input guys!_


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## APCruze (Mar 7, 2013)

Like you I added a single 10" shallow mount sub. It helped a lot but was still looking for a little more. ( I mounted it upside down in the trunk) so it does not come easily, and does not take up much space. Wanting more bass I added a second 10" in a box that leaves a lot of space an comes out with just removing the two wires in a few seconds. (I have had to do this a few times). I am much happier with the second sub, but my amp also pushes 1400 watts.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

So your issue is spl if I am not mistaken. You can either buy two IDQ12s and build the correct enclosure or just do xtremerevs set up dual 18" and use less trunk space. IDQS will produce a higher SPL reading but the dual 18" will sound way better and produce similar output but on a meter it will def be less. however with such high sensitivity they will be loud but not build up as much pressure as the dual 12 IDQS.


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Nothing wrong with mixing subwoofers. If they're on their own amplifier you'll be able to control them no problem or on their own RCA line. You might actually enjoy the mix between the different abilities between the subwoofers. I would ask XR about the position of the subwoofers to ensure they're not going to interfere with each other. Other than that, take some pics when you're done!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> So your issue is spl if I am not mistaken. You can either buy two IDQ12s and build the correct enclosure or just do xtremerevs set up dual 18" and use less trunk space. IDQS will produce a higher SPL reading but the dual 18" will sound way better and produce similar output but on a meter it will def be less. however with such high sensitivity they will be loud but not build up as much pressure as the dual 12 IDQS.


Bass is all about moving air. The two 18s have equivalent cone area to six 12" subwoofers. What you are then concerned with is excursion. Unfortunately, when it comes to SPL, there is disagreement as to how far beyond xmax you can go before the distortion bothers you. The xlim for the Peavey 18" subs isn't specified either, but we can probably assume that it is around 20-25mm. Even when excursion is factored in, the sheer piston area of the two 18" subwoofers will cause them to be louder than the two 12" IDQ drivers. 

Bass is all about moving air, and moving air is all about creating pressure. After all, that's why they call it sound pressure level. Where the 18" subs will shine is that in the trunk baffle, they will eliminate trunk coloration (and to some extent, boundary loading) and produce a far broader _range_. If you were to mount two IDQ12s into a trunk baffle to compare, the two Peavey 18s would be louder. They may be pro audio subwoofers, but they are still subwoofers.


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## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

Cool, so it sounds like I'm on the right track. I'll see how I feel about the sound in a couple of weeks and look at doing a 12" IDQ. I'd love to do the awesome XR setup with the dual 18"s! I'm sure that sounds freaking amazing, but I occasionally need to use the whole trunk so If I do drop another box in it'll need to be a relatively painless process to remove it temporarily.

The way I feel about it now it's "close" to being loud enough, but not quite there. The JL W3 was loud enough, but after hearing the IDQ I'd rather use it to hang my kids artwork on the fridge... I think adding a 12" would get me where I want to be SPL and SQL wise. Once I figure out what I'm doing I'll post some updates in the projects thread to my system build.

Thanks Guys!


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Bass is all about moving air. The two 18s have equivalent cone area to six 12" subwoofers. What you are then concerned with is excursion. Unfortunately, when it comes to SPL, there is disagreement as to how far beyond xmax you can go before the distortion bothers you. The xlim for the Peavey 18" subs isn't specified either, but we can probably assume that it is around 20-25mm. Even when excursion is factored in, the sheer piston area of the two 18" subwoofers will cause them to be louder than the two 12" IDQ drivers.
> 
> Bass is all about moving air, and moving air is all about creating pressure. After all, that's why they call it sound pressure level. Where the 18" subs will shine is that in the trunk baffle, they will eliminate trunk coloration (and to some extent, boundary loading) and produce a far broader _range_. If you were to mount two IDQ12s into a trunk baffle to compare, the two Peavey 18s would be louder. They may be pro audio subwoofers, but they are still subwoofers.


OK so meter your headrest with the dual 18" IB set up VS a properly built spl box and two idq12s and see what you read. I fully understand the physics of audio. I think you just misread my post, or maybe I wasnt clear . Ib in our cars, I find it hard to believe you can achieve the same db as a purpose built enclosure with same amp escpecially with same amp considering the re of those drivers.
I am for the dual 18" as I have been a fan for over a year now. I am going to be doing the dual. I thought my post pointed the op in that direction, but I am the worst writer ever as I always struggled in english.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

WarEagle_Cruze said:


> Cool, so it sounds like I'm on the right track. I'll see how I feel about the sound in a couple of weeks and look at doing a 12" IDQ. I'd love to do the awesome XR setup with the dual 18"s! I'm sure that sounds freaking amazing, but I occasionally need to use the whole trunk so If I do drop another box in it'll need to be a relatively painless process to remove it temporarily.
> 
> The way I feel about it now it's "close" to being loud enough, but not quite there. The JL W3 was loud enough, but after hearing the IDQ I'd rather use it to hang my kids artwork on the fridge... I think adding a 12" would get me where I want to be SPL and SQL wise. Once I figure out what I'm doing I'll post some updates in the projects thread to my system build.
> 
> Thanks Guys!


If I am not mistaken the dual 18s only take up 12 inches of space


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

here is a very good resource I still use. It is a good read on fundementals of Sound Pressure, sound pressure level, sound intensity, acoustical intensity etc. SPL sound level to dB pressure level sound pressure sound intensity unit dB Conversion of sound pressure to sound intensity sound units levels calculating spl sound level calculation air sound units level ratio decibel Pa kPa acoustic energy power co


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## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> If I am not mistaken the dual 18s only take up 12 inches of space


Right, but that's still a lot of space! More importantly I don't think I could tackle that project by myself. XR is a long way away and my wife would probably not endorse the trip... **** I have to figure out a way to sneak new stuff in the car as it is... it's not like filling my gun safe, I just bring one in that's the same color as what I already have and she doesn't notice!

Hopefully dropping a 12" or 15" in a removeable enclosure gets me where I want to be, I'm not looking to have the best stereo on the block, just one that I really like. TBH I already like this stereo more than any that I've owned, but I think I can be better with a little more in the subwoofer department.

The real question is, if I'm going to drop another sub in, do I go IDQ 12" or Type R 15"? I'm open to suggestions. My current logic is since I really like the sound of the IDQ 10" adding the IDQ 12" would be the way to go.

I guess a 3rd option, which I'm not a fan of would be to sell the IDQ 10" and the enclosure and drop in 2 12"s... but that would feel kind of like admitting defeat.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> OK so meter your headrest with the dual 18" IB set up VS a properly built spl box and two idq12s and see what you read. I fully understand the physics of audio. I think you just misread my post, or maybe I wasnt clear . Ib in our cars, I find it hard to believe you can achieve the same db as a purpose built enclosure with same amp escpecially with same amp considering the re of those drivers.
> I am for the dual 18" as I have been a fan for over a year now. I am going to be doing the dual. I thought my post pointed the op in that direction, but I am the worst writer ever as I always struggled in english.


It was assumed that the 12" subs would go in a sealed enclosure. A purpose built SPL enclosure might be louder with the right subs, but the IDQ12s really weren't designed for vented enclosure duty. It is strongly recommended that they be used in sealed enclosures, and in that regard, they wouldn't be louder. 



WarEagle_Cruze said:


> Right, but that's still a lot of space! More importantly I don't think I could tackle that project by myself. XR is a long way away and my wife would probably not endorse the trip... **** I have to figure out a way to sneak new stuff in the car as it is... it's not like filling my gun safe, I just bring one in that's the same color as what I already have and she doesn't notice!
> 
> Hopefully dropping a 12" or 15" in a removeable enclosure gets me where I want to be, I'm not looking to have the best stereo on the block, just one that I really like. TBH I already like this stereo more than any that I've owned, but I think I can be better with a little more in the subwoofer department.
> 
> ...


I'll have to measure it, but if you look at the tabs at the top of the trunk on the left and right, my baffle goes about another 4-5" out from that. Total depth at the top is about 7-8", and total depth at the bottom is about 12". For two 12" subwoofers, it's an unbelievably small amount of space to use. However, I won't lie, it's not an easy install. There is a lot of fitting and sanding and carpeting and testing. If I were to do it again for someone, it wouldn't be cheap, as it would take me an entire weekend to do it. 

The IDQ12 is nice because it has relatively low enclosure requirements while also having an especially high piston area comparable to other subwoofers of its size. I believe the 10" comes in at 399 square cm, while your typical 10" sub of the same power handling capability will be about 330 square cm. It's a similar story with the 12", although the difference isn't quite as enormous. 

You will have to mess around with the placement of the enclosures a bit. The boundary loading creates some weird cancellations in the cabin since the subs aren't mounted to the same plane. I can't really predict how it's going to sound. This is one reason why I went with the trunk baffle. 

How are you going to handle the amplifier problem?


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## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'll have to measure it, but if you look at the tabs at the top of the trunk on the left and right, my baffle goes about another 4-5" out from that. Total depth at the top is about 7-8", and total depth at the bottom is about 12". For two 12" subwoofers, it's an unbelievably small amount of space to use. However, I won't lie, it's not an easy install. There is a lot of fitting and sanding and carpeting and testing. If I were to do it again for someone, it wouldn't be cheap, as it would take me an entire weekend to do it.
> 
> The IDQ12 is nice because it has relatively low enclosure requirements while also having an especially high piston area comparable to other subwoofers of its size. I believe the 10" comes in at 399 square cm, while your typical 10" sub of the same power handling capability will be about 330 square cm. It's a similar story with the 12", although the difference isn't quite as enormous.
> 
> ...


My plan was to drop in another amp for the new sub. I ran 2GA wire back to the trunk so another 500 watt amp shouldn't be an issue. 

Since I'm likely to go that route I'm considering going ahead with the new amp so I can put 500 watts to the IDQ instead of the 300 that it's getting now. It may not make much of a difference but I figure it's worth a shot since I'm likely adding to or changing my setup. I just want to make sure I think this through before I buy more gear, I hate wasting money.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

So after you have fought me so hard I realized I made a huge mistake I was thinking the IDMAX . I was like WTF are you talking about ...�¿sealed box?. Wow.. oops. Most spl purpose built enclosures are rear loaded horns or bandpass at least the top competitors


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## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> So after you have fought me so hard I realized I made a huge mistake I was thinking the IDMAX . I was like WTF are you talking about ...�¿sealed box?. Wow.. oops. Most spl purpose built enclosures are rear loaded horns or bandpass at least the top competitors


Yeah I'm not really looking to rattle mirrors in the car next to me or anything, I just want mine to be a bit louder. SQ is paramount, SPL is a distant second to me. The JL 10W3 I had initially was the right volume level for me, but I wouldn't put it back in my car after hearing the IDQ v3 that I have in there now.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

WarEagle_Cruze said:


> o I'm toying around with the idea of dropping a 12" or 15"





XtremeRevolution said:


> It was assumed that the 12" subs would go in a sealed enclosure. A purpose built SPL enclosure might be louder with the right subs, but the IDQ12s really weren't designed for vented enclosure duty. It is strongly recommended that they be used in sealed enclosures, and in that regard, they wouldn't be louder.


I waas under the impression he was gonna change his entire set up


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

WarEagle_Cruze said:


> Hopefully dropping a 12" or 15" in a removeable enclosure gets me where I want to be, I'm not looking to have the best stereo on the block, just one that I really like. TBH I already like this stereo more than any that I've owned, but I think I can be better with a little more in the subwoofer department.
> 
> The real question is, if I'm going to drop another sub in, do I go IDQ 12" or Type R 15"? I'm open to suggestions. My current logic is since I really like the sound of the IDQ 10" adding the IDQ 12" would be the way to go.
> 
> I guess a 3rd option, which I'm not a fan of would be to sell the IDQ 10" and the enclosure and drop in 2 12"s... but that would feel kind of like admitting defeat.


Ok so 1 thing is definetly clear stay away from the the alpine....

I think that just adding a second 10" would yield the result you looking for. But the 12s net a better fs and higher spl. I know that the one w3 is quite impressive as a JL dealer myself. The w3 sounds good but your right not as good as the idq. I think that sometimes you have to cut your loses even if it means admitting defeat. I know that you will really like this HO112-W6v3- Car Audio - Subwoofer Systems - H.O. Wedge™ - JL Audio

You can do so many different things. The easiest thing to do in my opinion wire down to 2 ohms or add another 10" in a correctly designed enclosure. Since the amp will handle 2 ohm and the sub will handle up to 750 rms...


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## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

I decided to try upping the power first. I would need the amp anyway if I'm going to drop another sub in so this makes sense to me. I picked up a highfonics amp that will push 500 watts @ 4 ohms. I'll see how that sounds and go from there.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

It should be a dual voice coil sub... so you can wire the sub to 2 ohms keep your original amp and yeild twice the power unless its a dual 2 ohm


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## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

Yep, it's a dual 2 ohm sub, I messed up when I bought it. I meant to buy 4 ohm and didn't realize it till a month later.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

hificruzer226 said:


> So after you have fought me so hard I realized I made a huge mistake I was thinking the IDMAX . I was like WTF are you talking about ...�¿sealed box?. Wow.. oops. Most spl purpose built enclosures are rear loaded horns or bandpass at least the top competitors


I wouldn't put an IDMax in a vented enclosure either, but two 12" IDMax subs would probably be louder even sealed. The tuning peak is astronomical. Such an incredible driver though. 

If you want SPL, find some heavy cone and abuse it. The IDMax is still an SQ sub by car audio standards. That is, up to the V3. Image Dynamics ruined the brand with the V4 lineup. They may not look any different, but the numbers don't lie.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

WarEagle_Cruze said:


> Yep, it's a dual 2 ohm sub, I messed up when I bought it. I meant to buy 4 ohm and didn't realize it till a month later.


so buy another and both to a 2ohm load...


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I wouldn't put an IDMax in a vented enclosure either, but two 12" IDMax subs would probably be louder even sealed. The tuning peak is astronomical. Such an incredible driver though.
> 
> If you want SPL, find some heavy cone and abuse it. The IDMax is still an SQ sub by car audio standards. That is, up to the V3. Image Dynamics ruined the brand with the V4 lineup. They may not look any different, but the numbers don't lie.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


never said it wasnt an sq sub but that is neither hear no there. I dont play with ID in the car audio world anymore I used to about 10 years ago. I have only heard a few set ups as of recent as the brand is not very strong in the mid-atlantic region. SPL.... FI..DD ETC.

fyi last night I bought the dual 18s...$)


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## WarEagle_Cruze (May 15, 2014)

Problem solved... 

Ok so I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. It turns out my bass boost was set waaaay to high when I was setting my gains and I didn't realize it, so I was getting distortion before I got the gain dial half way. After looking over my amp and resetting the gain it sounds pretty darn good. For comparison with the same amp and 200 less watts than the JL W3 (4 ohm load with IDQ vs 2 Ohm with the W3) I was running I'd say it's about 80% of the volume of the W3, but it sounds so much better. 

Moral of this story, check your bass boost before you set your gains!

Thanks to everyone for your input!


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

Man i totally understand, I wanna run an extra 12" but then id lose way too much trunk space. One sub just doesn't cut it lol but for now I'm happy with a single 12" L7


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## trevor_geiger (Nov 29, 2012)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> Man i totally understand, I wanna run an extra 12" but then id lose way too much trunk space. One sub just doesn't cut it lol but for now I'm happy with a single 12" L7


Who needs trunk space? Lol, I use my passenger seat for everything ;P


Flex Issues..


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

haha and this!! your kinda right lol I just hate scratching up the leather




trevor_geiger said:


> Who needs trunk space? Lol, I use my passenger seat for everything ;P
> 
> 
> Flex Issues..


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

WarEagle_Cruze said:


> Problem solved...
> 
> Ok so I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. It turns out my bass boost was set waaaay to high when I was setting my gains and I didn't realize it, so I was getting distortion before I got the gain dial half way. After looking over my amp and resetting the gain it sounds pretty darn good. For comparison with the same amp and 200 less watts than the JL W3 (4 ohm load with IDQ vs 2 Ohm with the W3) I was running I'd say it's about 80% of the volume of the W3, but it sounds so much better.
> 
> ...


This is awesome I am so glad that you found the solution to your problem with proper adjustments. This a great learning experience for you to share with everyone here on the forum. I always check my levels with my O-scope to ensure 0 clipping and proper signal! I understand not everyone has this but it is needed.


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