# Diesel vs LTZ



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Was talking to my wife about this the other day (she brought it up), and I couldn't remember if there was ever a thread with a straight answer.

The Diesel was supposed to be the range-topping trim level, correct? So...why did the LTZ get certain features the Diesel did not? Most importantly - push-button start...

Anybody have any ideas/insight/insider info?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I was reading here they took a 2lt and shoved the diesel into it. the ltz still remained king but i think gm marketed it wrong and will hurt diesel value. they should have had the ltz next to the diesel vs under it. from a consumer and bean counter aspect imagine paying the big premium of diesel and still adding ltz stuff into it... gm to make $ would have to sell it higher then the ltz so less would buy it or would create internal competition... my thoughts


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I agree. LTZ and Diesel should have been equals. The fact we have the most expensive Cruze made, and it doesn't have a push-button to start the car, yet a less expensive model did, is always an annoyance - especially after we had that '16 Malibu for a few days. 

And in all reality - not offering the diesel as an engine option on _any_ trim level was a mistake, as well. I know plenty of people who would have bought one if they didn't have to pay extra for **** they didn't want (leather, etc).


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

agreed. i would have been more then happy for a diesel with a manual and just a base trim. i don't need leather i don't need bigger rims, i don't need certain things but Chevy wont they are to package happy to listen to customers. huge mistake was not offering a manual. would have saved me 800$ and made me the consumer much happier


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The CTD is a 2LT with a Diesel powertrain. There are a few feature comforts in the LTZ that the 2LT doesn't have. The trim levels are

LTZ (2011-2016 Limited)
CTD (2014-2015)
2LT (2011-2016 Limited)
ECO (2011-2016 Limited)
1LT (2011-2016 Limited)
LS (2011-2016 Limited)
L (2016 Limited only)

The L, LS, 1LT, and ECO all have a manual option for their full production periods. The 2LT has a manual option for 2011-2014.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Ctd ftw


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I somewhat remember hearing it was a 2LT now that it is mentioned.

That said - push-button start was optional on a 2LT.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

A LTZ (MSRP) Diesel would have been way too expensive for a Cruze with some of the added tech functionality. They have done the options packages quite a bit differently on the new one.

If their marketing department is smart, however, hopefully the next gen will come with the 1.6 diesel in 2 trim levels (LT and Premier). They have mentioned that it will come as a manual, so the LT is already spoken for I suppose.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

It will be more interesting how they do the Gen 2 CTD. Gen 1 CTD is over and horse already out of the barn. I would like to see the Gen 2 have a broader appeal and can get in cloth, manual etc. The diesel engine and the emissions required to build it sort of put it in a higher price to begin with. I would still think it will be a low production car unless fuel prices spike. The general public is buying more trucks and suvs which they probably prefer rather than a car that gets 50 mpg or more.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

pandrad61 said:


> huge mistake was not offering a manual.


I have to wonder if not offering a manual was due to EPA regulations. Lugging a diesel could the car to fail emissions standards. I believe utility vehicles fall under a different catagory that's not as strict. Since the manumatic mode in the automatic will still auto downshift, that's not an issue.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

What I recall is that since it was essentially a market test, they started off with what would be the most popular option if both were offered.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

The diesel was a mix of 2LT and Eco packages. The car was designed to be comfortable, not too expensive, and fuel efficient. Thats why we have leather, no push button/passive entry, and active shutters with Fuel Max tires. I think they nailed it, although I would have liked passive entry.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> The diesel was a mix of 2LT and Eco packages. The car was designed to be comfortable, not too expensive, and fuel efficient. Thats why we have leather, no push button/passive entry, and active shutters with Fuel Max tires. I think they nailed it, although I would have liked passive entry.


They did a good job i think but more options would have been nice. i would have paid extra for a RS rear bumper (front im ok with) but besides point. i would have liked the option of push button start and automatic climate control


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

obermd said:


> The CTD is a 2LT with a Diesel powertrain. There are a few feature comforts in the LTZ that the 2LT doesn't have. The trim levels are
> 
> LTZ (2011-2016 Limited)
> CTD (2014-2015)
> ...


what aboot rs?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> I have to wonder if not offering a manual was due to EPA regulations. Lugging a diesel could the car to fail emissions standards. I believe utility vehicles fall under a different catagory that's not as strict. Since the manumatic mode in the automatic will still auto downshift, that's not an issue.


what manual do they have that can take the tq?


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

pandrad61 said:


> They did a good job i think but more options would have been nice. i would have paid extra for a RS rear bumper (front im ok with) but besides point. i would have liked the option of push button start and automatic climate control


I'd also like for fogs to have been standard and for the price premium I'd have liked push button start standard.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

boraz said:


> what aboot rs?


RS is a package, not a trim level.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I didn't mind that I had to get the extra stuff om my diesel, ad i was mainly interested in the engine. I bought one with no additional options.

If they are going after VW, they need to have the diesel available on all trim levels, save maybe the L ans LS. That should put prices in line with what VW had on the Jetta. Jetta sales were at least 15% diesel. We will see if GM can duplicate that. it would mostly be a sales windfall.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> what aboot rs?


visual package , but on the cruze i think for a few years it put in the z link suspension


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> visual package , but on the cruze i think for a few years it put in the z link suspension


I think it was just on trim levels that had the Z-link?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> I think it was just on trim levels that had the Z-link?


IM sorry im not understanding you. i thought i read that even a 1lt with no z had it added with the rs pack... its been a while. i know ltz and CTd had standard


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I don't think the RS added Z-link - it was appearance only. It'd only have Z-link because the trim level had it already.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

What is Z-link?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> What is Z-link?


The watts link in the rear suspension.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> what is z-link?









the crank in the middle. Think a track bar on a solid axle jeep


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

here it is explained what it does. Ill post a non z link


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Here is non z link. See how it doesnt have the rotating knuckle and long arms to hub, behind the axle towards the rear of the car


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## Merchlewitz (Aug 3, 2016)

I am fine without the push button start.. I like the mechanical turning of the key.. TBH a push button would just be another "something that could go wrong"...


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

The Watts Z-Link sport tuned suspension was only included in 2LT, LTZ, and our diesels.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

boraz said:


> what manual do they have that can take the tq?


We had a 5m and later a 6m available in the diesel in Australia. There is also a base CD model and the luxury CDX. I have a CDX automatic which comes with automatic climate control and heated leather seats and I guess is like an LTZ. I believe the push button start is not an option because the glow plug function is controlled from the key start. Fog lights and heated external mirrors are also standard, as are 17 X 7 alloy wheels.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Merchlewitz said:


> I am fine without the push button start.. I like the mechanical turning of the key.. TBH a push button would just be another "something that could go wrong"...


Actually, it's less complicated than a keyed ignition module - and easier to package.


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## Merchlewitz (Aug 3, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Actually, it's less complicated than a keyed ignition module - and easier to package.


In that case I'd be all for the push button lol.. I thought it would complicate things more..

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> actually, it's less complicated than a keyed ignition module - and easier to package.


huh go figure. I thought since it had to detect the key fob more electronics to go wrong vs simple ignition.


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## outdoorjr (Jan 17, 2016)

Oh yes, all CTD has a button to start - Use your remote key. Oh dang, I still have to put key inside ign to start driving. Ha.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> I somewhat remember hearing it was a 2LT now that it is mentioned.
> 
> That said - push-button start was optional on a 2LT.


I prefer a key ignition over the push button start anyhow... I don't at all understand how it became a standard luxury item in cars to begin with? Who was ever buying a car and said "I love everything about the car but that annoyance of having to twist my wrist and turn the key to start the car is a deal breaker, I won't buy this car without a push button!"????? The transponder key remotes are expensive and easily lost. In most cases you can start and drive off with the keys on the roof or something like that and then you are screwed!!! We had this happen in the Nevada Desert outside Las Vegas after a SEMA photo shoot and the Lexus show car had to be left parked overnight in an In-N-Out parking lot then towed to the dealer and it took a week to get a working key for it.

I can't say I would not buy a car with push button start, but I can honestly say I do not like the tech, and wish it would go away!!! I think it is a VERY Unnecessary added expense on vehicles that have it and eventually it will cost you even more in the long run...


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Actually, it's less complicated than a keyed ignition module - and easier to package.





pandrad61 said:


> huh go figure. I thought since it had to detect the key fob more electronics to go wrong vs simple ignition.


Seems to me that a mechanical steering lock release would always be simpler and less trouble prone than an electronically actuated steering lock mechanism. Additionally the receiver and associated electronics would add unnecessary complexity... I'll still go for the tried and true KEY in the cylinder and release the steering lock and start the car...


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Chris Tobin said:


> In most cases you can start and drive off with the keys on the roof or something like that and then you are screwed!!! We had this happen in the Nevada Desert outside Las Vegas after a SEMA photo shoot and the Lexus show car had to be left parked overnight in an In-N-Out parking lot then towed to the dealer and it took a week to get a working key for it.


Just for fun, I tried this in my car that has this feature, and it worked! I thought the cars with this feature were supposed to be smart enough to know when the key is in the car.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

diesel said:


> Just for fun, I tried this in my car that has this feature, and it worked! I thought the cars with this feature were supposed to be smart enough to know when the key is in the car.


My daughter has a 1.6T hatchback with the push button start and she has been fine with only one driver. On the other hand my son and daughter in law have a Nissan X Trail with the keyless start and on 2 occasions so far I have had to go to their house and get the keys as my son used his (in his pocket) to drive to the train station. That was fine, the wife with 2 kids in the car then stopped at the shops on the way home and were stranded. Fortunately I have spare keys to their house and don't live too far away and got them out of trouble. I am happy to have old technology in my car.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

There have been well publicized cases where people have failed to turn their car OFF with the push button and later died from CO piosoning in their homes. In fact Chicago just gas one a few months back. Why is it so hard to turn a key???


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> Just for fun, I tried this in my car that has this feature, and it worked! I thought the cars with this feature were supposed to be smart enough to know when the key is in the car.


Most newer ones will not start unless the key is *in* the car. The 16 Malibu we had was that way. Wouldn't even start if the key was next to the door on the outside.



Chris Tobin said:


> Seems to me that a mechanical steering lock release would always be simpler and less trouble prone than an electronically actuated steering lock mechanism. Additionally the receiver and associated electronics would add unnecessary complexity... I'll still go for the tried and true KEY in the cylinder and release the steering lock and start the car...


Packaging the push-button start versus a keyed igntion module is far more difficult as the later is _far_ bigger. My wife does advanced vehicle packaging - and has directly dealt with exactly that. 

She much prefers push button start in that situation alone - along with the convenience of not having to dig through her purse for a key. Passive entry and push-button start mean you can just leave it wherever and go.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

DslGate said:


> There have been well publicized cases where people have failed to turn their car OFF with the push button and later died from CO piosoning in their homes. In fact Chicago just gas one a few months back. Why is it so hard to turn a key???


GM recalled the Chevy Volt a year+ ago to solve this issue, if your car sits not moving but on for more than 90 minutes it turns itself off. This is really only a problem if you can't hear the engine or read the gauges to see the engine is still on. In the case of the volt the gas motor could start to charge the battery if left on once the battery was low(even days later), so the 90 minute thing should solve the problem.

Reality is though if you are driving and not making sure your car is actually off when you park it inside its your own **** fault if you die from the exhaust gasses. Isn't this how evolution works? Only the smart survive. 

I also think in a few years push button start will be standard on all cars, eliminates any user caused ignition issues, like using too heavy of keys(cobalt anyone?). I see 2017 GM added push button start to the Sonic LTZ as well as the 2LT 2016+ Spark. Sorry to say but all the expensive GM cars with keyed ignitions feel cheap when I can get push button start standard on entry level cars with other brands. So much more convenient and increases my safety when I walk to my car with an arm load of grocery's not to have to waste timing fumbling to dig out a key from my pocket.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

spacedout said:


> Sorry to say but all the expensive GM cars with keyed ignitions feel cheap when I can get push button start standard on entry level cars with other brands. So much more convenient and increases my safety when I walk to my car with an arm load of grocery's not to have to waste timing fumbling to dig out a key from my pocket.


I think when I got out of the 16 Malibu and back into our CTD, I may have actually said "What is this ****?" when I no longer had push-button start, haha.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Hopefully GM will see fit to add push button start at least as an option on the all new 2017 diesel cruze.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> Hopefully GM will see fit to add push button start at least as an option on the all new 2017 diesel cruze.


i dont want it standard id just like the option of it


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## outdoorjr (Jan 17, 2016)

Funny thing that when I rented a car that have start/stop button and I put the key in my pocket. When I dropped off the rental car at airport and walked away, the rental guy had to run to catch me, that maybe a two football fields away. Oh boy, key is still in my pocket. Oops, i gave it to him. I had to remind my myself that have to leave key in car when drop off at rental. Can not image if the key still with me when i enter into plane. The car may be stuck in the middle of row with other cars.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Most newer ones will not start unless the key is *in* the car. The 16 Malibu we had was that way. Wouldn't even start if the key was next to the door on the outside..


Next time you're around one, try with the key sitting on the roof. I'll bet it will start.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Most newer ones will not start unless the key is *in* the car. The 16 Malibu we had was that way. Wouldn't even start if the key was next to the door on the outside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay so it may take up less physical space, but it is still more complex than the old school tried and true mechanical design, and the above mentioned concerns and problems with the push button systems are still very worrysome. There have been deaths attributed to it... how hard is it to turn a key??? I don't want to PAY for the privilege of pressing a button vs turning a key!!!


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Chris Tobin said:


> Okay so it may take up less physical space, but it is still more complex than the old school tried and true mechanical design, and the above mentioned concerns and problems with the push button systems are still very worrysome. There have been deaths attributed to it... how hard is it to turn a key??? I don't want to PAY for the privilege of pressing a button vs turning a key!!!


yeah, good thing theres been no deaths from keyed ignitions

oh wait


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

boraz said:


> yeah, good thing theres been no deaths from keyed ignitions
> 
> oh wait


Not from forgetting to turn off the key!!!


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

obermd said:


> The CTD is a 2LT with a Diesel powertrain. There are a few feature comforts in the LTZ that the 2LT doesn't have. The trim levels are
> 
> LTZ (2011-2016 Limited)
> CTD (2014-2015)
> ...


For the USA market. They let them keep a manual in Canada for 15-16.



MP81 said:


> I somewhat remember hearing it was a 2LT now that it is mentioned.
> 
> That said - push-button start was optional on a 2LT.


Yes, Canada only.....



pandrad61 said:


> visual package , but on the cruze i think for a few years it put in the z link suspension


yeah Z link in the 11-12 was all but the eco 6MT. This RS package gave the 1LT RS the Z link that is now only 2LT and LTZ standard. 


MP81 said:


> I don't think the RS added Z-link - it was appearance only. It'd only have Z-link because the trim level had it already.


Diesel = 2LT = Z link standard for trim level. 



spacedout said:


> GM recalled the Chevy Volt a year+ ago to solve this issue, if your car sits not moving but on for more than 90 minutes it turns itself off. This is really only a problem if you can't hear the engine or read the gauges to see the engine is still on. In the case of the volt the gas motor could start to charge the battery if left on once the battery was low(even days later), so the 90 minute thing should solve the problem.
> 
> Reality is though if you are driving and not making sure your car is actually off when you park it inside its your own **** fault if you die from the exhaust gasses. Isn't this how evolution works? Only the smart survive.
> 
> I also think in a few years push button start will be standard on all cars, eliminates any user caused ignition issues, like using too heavy of keys(cobalt anyone?). I see 2017 GM added push button start to the Sonic LTZ as well as the 2LT 2016+ Spark. Sorry to say but all the expensive GM cars with keyed ignitions feel cheap when I can get push button start standard on entry level cars with other brands. So much more convenient and increases my safety when I walk to my car with an arm load of grocery's not to have to waste timing fumbling to dig out a key from my pocket.



Yes you shouldn't be able to spend $70K on a Acadia Denali and $80K on an Escalade Platinum to still have a 1999 turn key & separate fob while a $29K Cruze has it packaged in a flip key form.


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## anthonysmith93 (Jul 15, 2015)

Diesel should have been an option, not a trim level, and if not an option, it should have been a separate car, like some other manufacturers do. Cruze Diesel LT, 2LT, or LTZ. SO it could have all the fixins (or lack thereof) of a gasser Cruze.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

anthonysmith93 said:


> Diesel should have been an option, not a trim level, and if not an option, it should have been a separate car, like some other manufacturers do. Cruze Diesel LT, 2LT, or LTZ. SO it could have all the fixins (or lack thereof) of a gasser Cruze.


Hopefully they do that where it can float the trims like RS does. The way 93 prices are, Diesel ends up being cheaper even if I tuned and ran it hard.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

anthonysmith93 said:


> Diesel should have been an option, not a trim level, and if not an option, it should have been a separate car, like some other manufacturers do. Cruze Diesel LT, 2LT, or LTZ. SO it could have all the fixins (or lack thereof) of a gasser Cruze.


That method worked for VW, and GM is going after the TDI crowd now. We will see what they do on the new one.


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