# Water pump update/design change?



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

So lucky me, opened the hood today and see orange liquid on the motor mount on the pulley side, very cool, considering I did the water pump about a year and a half ago... I replaced it with an AISIN WPK-819 https://www.amazon.com/AISIN-WPK-819-Engine-Water-Pump/dp/B01M16MJG7 which I thought was good, they make OEM ones for GM as well. I did notice when putting it on it has a plastic backing... it seems the new ACDelco have metal. Was there some sort of update? The ACDelco 252-996 seems to be the correct replacement part. https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-252-996-Professional-Water-Pump/dp/B01N0OQXJR

Basically I am tired of having to do repeat repairs to my car (had to do the thermostat over too) and want to confirm this time I get a good quality part.

Lastly, that new ACDelco comes with a cardboard gasket, I can tell by the picture. Do I need any sealant for that? TIA

Design differences example:


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

When it comes to gaskets, unless they are rubber I always RTV trace them. For cooling systems I also always leave it coolant free for at least 24hr. This way it cures all the way, to this day I’ve never had one my water pumps leak after install that way


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> So lucky me, opened the hood today and see orange liquid on the motor mount on the pulley side, very cool, considering I did the water pump about a year and a half ago... I replaced it with an AISIN WPK-819 https://www.amazon.com/AISIN-WPK-819-Engine-Water-Pump/dp/B01M16MJG7 which I thought was good, they make OEM ones for GM as well. I did notice when putting it on it has a plastic backing... it seems the new ACDelco have metal. Was there some sort of update? The ACDelco 252-996 seems to be the correct replacement part. https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-252-996-Professional-Water-Pump/dp/B01N0OQXJR
> 
> Basically I am tired of having to do repeat repairs to my car (had to do the thermostat over too) and want to confirm this time I get a good quality part.
> 
> ...


It's all part of Cruze ownership my friend. 

I'm glad you saw it in you garage instead of on the side of the highway or, even worse, in heavy traffic.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> It's all part of Cruze ownership my friend.
> 
> I'm glad you saw it in you garage instead of on the side of the highway or, even worse, in heavy traffic.


Yeah, I have to be a little honest. I am growing a bit tired of it... Never thought I'd say that either. Was having a talk with my dad today and he is thinking of a Honda truck soon. Anyway, got a new one on order and another gallon of anti freeze. Should get it worked on Tuesday of next week.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Yeah, I have to be a little honest. I am growing a bit tired of it... Never thought I'd say that either. Was having a talk with my dad today and he is thinking of a Honda truck soon. Anyway, got a new one on order and another gallon of anti freeze. Should get it worked on Tuesday of next week.


Yeah, there's a reason why so many people come on to this forum to complain about the Cruze. It's definitely not a Honda or a Toyota.

I'm glad you got what you needed.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Yeah, there's a reason why so many people come on to this forum to complain about the Cruze. It's definitely not a Honda or a Toyota.
> 
> I'm glad you got what you needed.


The facebook group is 100x worse, had to leave it. Just constant bitching lol


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Speed costs $$ how fast do you want to go. Fast, Cheap, Dependable you can pick 2 . lol just a couple rules of thumb when it comes to cars / toys. The biggest thing is to do something that brings you satisfaction. And I bet now that you have done this a couple ties you have gotten the system of the change down. preferable you wont have to do it again for quit a while but at least you know what you have to do. First time taking the bumper off took me a good hour now maybe about 10 minutes.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> Yeah, I have to be a little honest. I am growing a bit tired of it... Never thought I'd say that either. Was having a talk with my dad today and he is thinking of a Honda truck soon. Anyway, got a new one on order and another gallon of anti freeze. Should get it worked on Tuesday of next week.


The Honda pick up for me looks great on paper but a bit confused. If I recall it was a modification of the SUV so it’s not optimal as a pickup. If it had a real transfer case 4wd I’d definitely be way more interested


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> The facebook group is 100x worse, had to leave it. Just constant bitching lol


Wow is that a toxic ass group. Those folks will grill you if you actually warn folks that these cars are performance money pits, or act like children if you bag their crappy maintenance


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Mr_Pat said:


> Speed costs $$ how fast do you want to go. Fast, Cheap, Dependable you can pick 2 . lol just a couple rules of thumb when it comes to cars / toys. The biggest thing is to do something that brings you satisfaction. And I bet now that you have done this a couple ties you have gotten the system of the change down. preferable you wont have to do it again for quit a while but at least you know what you have to do. First time taking the bumper off took me a good hour now maybe about 10 minutes.


I mean the Cruze really isn't any of the 3 lol...


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I mean the Cruze really isn't any of the 3 lol...


Actually my Cruze has been extremely dependable. I've only every had to spend money on regular maintenance, tires, and performance parts.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> I mean the Cruze really isn't any of the 3 lol...


Its been dependable and cheap to operate but mine is a oil burner. The cassis is well done, suspension primitive by today’s standards but overall done well too. To this day I maintain that had GM just kept the 1.4T out of the Cruze it would have sold better and ran better.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

pandrad61 said:


> Its been dependable and cheap to operate but mine is a oil burner. The cassis is well done, suspension primitive by today’s standards but overall done well too. To this day I maintain that had GM just kept the 1.4T out of the Cruze it would have sold better and ran better.


Yeah. GM probably should have stuck with the 1.8L. It produces the same stock horsepower as the 1.4T. Or GM could have kept with the 2.2L from the Cobalt until the 1.5L or 2.0L used in the Malibu debuted.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

@Thebigzeus , do you know where the pump is leaking?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> @Thebigzeus , do you know where the pump is leaking?


No, but i stuck my fingers up under the pulley and they came out real wet. So assume there since its a bearing in plastic. Junk. Pump is out for delivery today from Mr. Bezos, so should get started tomorrow morning. Either way it has to come off. I doubt its leaking around the edges though, I sealed it up real good, gasket + RTV. I think this time I am going to do just the gasket.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> No, but i stuck my fingers up under the pulley and they came out real wet. So assume there since its a bearing in plastic. Junk. Pump is out for delivery today from Mr. Bezos, so should get started tomorrow morning. Either way it has to come off. I doubt its leaking around the edges though, I sealed it up real good, gasket + RTV. I think this time I am going to do just the gasket.


Plastic + Cooling System = BAD


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

JLL said:


> Yeah. GM probably should have stuck with the 1.8L. It produces the same stock horsepower as the 1.4T. Or GM could have kept with the 2.2L from the Cobalt until the 1.5L or 2.0L used in the Malibu debuted.


I’m surprised they didn’t use the bigger buick NA as a shared engine. Less complicated assembly needs and parts overlap.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)




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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> View attachment 291667


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

All done! You can see in the circled part the weep hole was weeping and I assume the pulley was flinging the coolant around.










Cleaned up










All installed. Put a bit of RTV on the deep bolts as they were wet oddly when I removed them. 










Test drive went ok, thermostat opened at 101C just like my tune is set to, then sat around 95C. Bled it using the bleeder screw on top of radiator. About as 4 hour job and that includes test drive, cleanup, and a shower.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> All done! You can see in the circled part the weep hole was weeping and I assume the pulley was flinging the coolant around.
> 
> View attachment 291668
> 
> ...


Shiney. What's with the Celsius temperatures?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Shiney. What's with the Celsius temperatures?


Idk, it’s how the BNR auto cal displays it.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Idk, it’s how the BNR auto cal displays it.


I think that can be changed. My Autocal displays in F.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I think that can be changed. My Autocal displays in F.



Probably. But I don’t like poking around in stuff I don’t know


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Probably. But I don’t like poking around in stuff I don’t know


Then how do you learn anything new?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Then how do you learn anything new?


I don’t, I’m an idiot. 😉

Pressure testing time.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I don’t, I’m an idiot. 😉
> 
> Pressure testing time.
> View attachment 291675


Those coils are sexy


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Those coils are sexy


They ain't bad, would rather have had blue though to match the car. But for what I paid, by the time I sold my MSD one, literally paid half of the price of new ones.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> They ain't bad, would rather have had blue though to match the car. But for what I paid, by the time I sold my MSD one, literally paid half of the price of new ones.


Why not paint the cover plate?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

The saga continues, failed the pressure test. Oddly enough I was able to get almost another 1/4 - 1/2 turn on some of the bolts, almost like they loosened or that junk GM paper gasket compressed... yes they were torqued appropriately from the start. Torqued everything back down tighter and will pressure test this evening/overnight. If it doesn't leak I'll ship it, if it does, time for a different gasket.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Dang never a good time when something you put back together decides to give ya the bird.. hope ya get her squared away


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Well tightening didn't fix it, removed it and everything honestly looked fine, the paper gasket was soaked though... Now does this new one need RTV? Seems to have a blue ring of some type of rubber already.. Ordered this one:


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Well tightening didn't fix it, removed it and everything honestly looked fine, the paper gasket was soaked though... Now does this new one need RTV? Seems to have a blue ring of some type of rubber already.. Ordered this one:
> 
> View attachment 291681


I never use additional RTV sealant on gaskets. Rubber gaskets get a little oil. "Paper" gaskets are the sealant.

Also let the gasket sit overnight before filling the coolant system.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> "Paper" gaskets are the sealant.


This one wasn't, LOL! Maybe I over torqued it, who knows.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> This one wasn't, LOL! Maybe I over torqued it, who knows.


I should have said gaskets are supposed to be the sealant.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I should have said gaskets are supposed to be the sealant.


I think I am going to RTV this new one... just as a backup. My last one didn't leak and I RTV'd it. Leaked from the weep hole, but that's a part failure.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I think I am going to RTV this new one... just as a backup. My last one didn't leak and I RTV'd it. Leaked from the weep hole, but that's a part failure.


What your doing when you do that is double gasketing. As long as both gaskets seal, your good to go. But if one gasket seals and the other doesn’t, then you have a leak.

Does that make sense?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> What your doing when you do that is double gasketing. As long as both gaskets seal, your good to go. But if one gasket seals and the other doesn’t, then you have a leak.
> 
> Does that make sense?


Well, yeah. The RTV will be very thin. It just begs the question, why did this one leak without RTV.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

How long did you let the gasket sit before filling the cooling system?

It is also possible the gasket was defective.

Also what is the red stuff around the bolts? It's not RTV?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Also did you replace the TTY water pump bolts?

If not, in theory it won't torque down correctly.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> How long did you let the gasket sit before filling the cooling system?
> 
> It is also possible the gasket was defective.
> 
> Also what is the red stuff around the bolts? It's not RTV?


It is RTV around the bolts. Filled immediately, nothing on the literature said to wait or anything.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Also did you replace the TTY water pump bolts?
> 
> If not, in theory it won't torque down correctly.


No, nobody does.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> No, nobody does.


And you have a leaky water pump....

In order to get a proper torque on any bolt you need to make sure the contact surfaces, including the bolt heads are clean. Otherwise the torque wrench isn't going to perform accurately.

Also a gasket has to be given time to compress uniformly. That's how it seals. The service manual assumes you know all of this.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> And you have a leaky water pump....
> 
> Also a gasket has to be given time to compress uniformly. That's how it seals. The service manual assumes you know all of this.


So the instructions it came with from GM don't know this, but the manual does? hmmm


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> So the instructions it came with from GM don't know this, but the manual does? hmmm


Manuals and instructions only know as much as the people who write them. Most service manuals and technical instructions are incomplete because the author assumes the reader knows certain best practices because he or she is assumed to be a professional technician.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

JLL said:


> Also did you replace the TTY water pump bolts?
> 
> If not, in theory it won't torque down correctly.


Hate TTY bolts so much


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

pandrad61 said:


> Hate TTY bolts so much


Me too


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Alright, only one side of the gasket had the blue on it and it was raised a bit, so on the pump side i did a very thin coat of RTV. I have a bad feeling the pump wasn't planed quite evenly on the cnc, this would fix that. Will wait the 24 hours per JLL recommendation to fill and pressure test.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Alright, only one side of the gasket had the blue on it and it was raised a bit, so on the pump side i did a very thin coat of RTV. I have a bad feeling the pump wasn't planed quite evenly on the cnc, this would fix that. Will wait the 24 hours per JLL recommendation to fill and pressure test.


A *good* gasket will take care of mating surface imperfections on their own.  

Was the new gasket a Fel-Pro?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> A *good* gasket will take care of mating surface imperfections on their own.
> 
> Was the new gasket a Fel-Pro?


Yep


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Yep


That's mostly what I'm using for my build. I've had good luck with Fel-Pro.


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## Cruton (Sep 19, 2017)

JLL said:


> Actually my Cruze has been extremely dependable. I've only every had to spend money on regular maintenance, tires, and performance parts.


Mine too. I have owned dozens of cars and the Cruze has been one of the most reliable. Other than one tire air pressure sensor and one window regulator, it's been trouble free. I do give it top notch maintenance.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

I mean at this point.. I don't know what to do... Not leaking near as bad, but STILL is...


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> I mean at this point.. I don't know what to do... Not leaking near as bad, but STILL is...
> 
> View attachment 291705


Take the WP to get tried and planes at a machine shop?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

pandrad61 said:


> Take the WP to get tried and planes at a machine shop?


I'd return it before I went that far. At this point though it's gotta be something like that. It's the thinnest part of the gasket though... If it's coming off again I need yet another gasket. Maybe I try a GM gasket with the orange stuff on each side. IDK


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I mean at this point.. I don't know what to do... Not leaking near as bad, but STILL is...
> 
> View attachment 291705


Try cleaning up ALL the RTV, replacing the TTY bolts, Send the pump back to Amazon and buy one from your GM parts dept. That's how it came from the factory.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Interesting, Rock Auto has two replacement ones from GM, mine is the cheaper one...


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Interesting, Rock Auto has two replacement ones from GM, mine is the cheaper one...
> 
> View attachment 291706


Very interesting


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Try cleaning up ALL the RTV, replacing the TTY bolts, Send the pump back to Amazon and buy one from your GM parts dept. That's how it came from the factory.


Yeah, having to do it all again has me so thrilled. 3rd times a charm I guess...


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Very interesting


It's to my understanding one is 3rd party and made to GM specifications...


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> It's to my understanding one is 3rd party and made to GM specifications...


I bought part# 55486342 for my rebuild. I'm not sure which that is but it was $133 after taxes.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Ok, got a genuine on order from the dealer and two TTY bolts, should be in early next week. Will button this one up and drive it cause im tired of the car sitting. It's barely leaking, but a leak is a leak and it's not going to seal itself.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Ok, got a genuine on order from the dealer and two TTY bolts, should be in early next week. Will button this one up and drive it cause im tired of the car sitting. It's barely leaking, but a leak is a leak and it's not going to seal itself.


Ok. Be careful. Little leaks can become big problems in a hurry if air gets into the wrong part of the cooling system.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Anyone know where the torque sequence can be found, I know its an X pattern, but is it like the valve cover and has a default one?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Anyone know where the torque sequence can be found, I know its an X pattern, but is it like the valve cover and has a default one?


There not a specific pattern but there is a specific torque sequence:

Once everything is clean and RTV free,

1. Intall the two TTY bolts. Tighten them finger tight.
2. Install the rest of the bolts. Tighten them finger tight.
3. Tighten all the water pump bolts a little at a time (in 2-3 stages) in a criss-cross pattern until you get to 71 in-lbs.
4. Tighten the two TTY bolts an additional 30 degrees.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> There not a specific pattern but there is a specific torque sequence:
> 
> Once everything is clean and RTV free,
> 
> ...


Seems like what I did the first time, but I still don’t believe the pump was machined flat enough. Or it’s the block, hope not lol.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

I have been using one of those spring like torque wrenches with the graph on it. Ordering a click style one now for in lbs.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Seems like what I did the first time, but I still don’t believe the pump was machined flat enough. Or it’s the block, hope not lol.


That could be.

I honestly think the torque was probably off. It's only 71 in-lbs. There's not much acceptable error there. Are you using a quality torque wrench? I've think alot of the reason people have so many installation problems on this forum is that the "precision" tools people are using are poorly made.

Just like the valve cover.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I have been using one of those spring like torque wrenches with the graph on it. Ordering a click style one now for in lbs.


I just said that.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Did that new pump come in?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

No


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> No


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Came in today. Probably won’t install until this weekend.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Came in today. Probably won’t install until this weekend.
> View attachment 291769


Shiney


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Shiney


Bolts not pictured, but they ARE on my toolbox. 😅


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Ok- I know I'm late to the story, but I thought I'd comment. 

The factory OE gasket is a rubber coated steel that stuck to the block really well when I changed my pump. In scraping it I didn't realize that I still had the old gasket on the timing cover initially, then I pulled it all off. Noticing the factory gasket was red, and it was steel. 

I used the AC Delco Professional shown in the first post with the metal backing plate behind the impeller. I know you shouldn't have to use sealer, but I used a thin coat of sealer on BOTH sides of the paper gasket. Permatex water pump/thermostat sealer. 

Let it dry 24 hours.. Fill, bleed at radiator, ect. I reused the bolts. 

15,000 miles latter and everything is still dry. I didn't use so much sealer as to it gushed out, but I did use a popsicle stick to evenly spread it on both sides. Very thin.. Might it be a bear to remove, yes it could be. I hope I don't have to do that job again. It took a long time. 

As your well aware, but for others that might be reading. Keep track of your bolt locations. They are different lengths, some attach to the timing cover, and some go through the cover and actually attach to the head/block. 

I feel for you. Doing this job as many times as you are.. yikes.. As far as I could tell the AC Delco professional and the OE one you just ordered are the only ones that do not use plastic behind the impeller. That's junk.. That plastic was as loose and floppy as a wet noodle when I pulled the old pump. Definitely can't take heat well.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Yep, I may attempt tonight after work, 3rd times a charm. Thanks for all the added details.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Deed is done, test drive successful. Leak/pressure test tomorrow night probably.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Deed is done, test drive successful. Leak/pressure test tomorrow night probably.


If the test drive went good, Why pressure test unless your loosing coolant? You essentially pressure tested on the test drive, didn't you?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> If the test drive went good, Why pressure test unless your loosing coolant? You essentially pressure tested on the test drive, didn't you?


Because the last one was a drip and I wouldn’t have ever found it unless I did. Why would you not pressure test? It passed, all done.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Because the last one was a drip and I wouldn’t have ever found it unless I did. Why would you not pressure test? It passed, all done.


Because when your driving it, the cooling system is being pressurized. In my opinion doing another pressure test when there is no visible leak or loss of coolant is redundant. I only pressure test if there is an issue, such as low coolant or a visable leak.

I'm glad you got it fixed.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Because when your driving it, the cooling system is being pressurized. In my opinion doing another pressure test when there is no visible leak or loss of coolant is redundant. I only pressure test if there is an issue, such as low coolant or a visable leak.
> 
> I'm glad you got it fixed.


There are many reasons to do this. A few being: you can pressure test the system much longer with less effort. I don’t have to drive around for 8 hours to keep it under pressure for that long. Another is there is no heat, a leak wouldn’t evaporate and it’s easier to see it without having to put my face around a 200° engine. Lastly, the car isn’t moving around, so any leak would be straight from the source and not running down or around the engine.

it is also important to do it under heat as well, which is why I also did that.

For these reasons, it is important to perform said tests and I do not agree with the statement saying it is redundant.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> There are many reasons to do this. A few being: you can pressure test the system much longer with less effort. I don’t have to drive around for 8 hours to keep it under pressure for that long. Another is there is no heat, a leak wouldn’t evaporate and it’s easier to see it without having to put my face around a 200° engine. Lastly, the car isn’t moving around, so any leak would be straight from the source and not running down or around the engine.
> 
> it is also important to do it under heat as well, which is why I also did that.
> 
> For these reasons, it is important to perform said tests and I do not agree with the statement saying it is redundant.


I probably shouldn't have used the word redundant because redudedcy requires equivalently. But I do normally consider it a waste of time after a fresh repair. I'm an optimist, so I personally don't assume there's going to be an issue with a fresh repair.

Pressure testing does have it's place as a diagnostic tool (which you are using it as).

However, pressure testing really isn't equivalent to what happens to the cooling system when you drive the car as I'm gathering from your post. Let me explain.

What generates pressure in the cooling system?

The answer: HEAT.

And as you know, heat causes everything, (except ice and a few other materials), to expand. Which, in most cases, actually increases the sealing capabilities of the cooling system under normal operating conditions when the engine is hot. Which is 95% of the time, unless you make very short trips all the time.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

So, you’re telling me, after doing the job 3 times in a row, you would just send it and drive it around?  If so, fair enough!


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> So, you’re telling me, after doing the job 3 times in a row, you would just send it and drive it around?  If so, fair enough!


Of course not! I would have done right the first (or second) time with the correct part that the GM catalog indicated, replaced the torque to yield bolts, and not used additional RTV. 

You live and learn. I've had to learn the hard way most of my life.  And one thing I've learned is that GM does certain things from the factory for a reason. Granted, some of them are for lean manufacturing purposes. Engineers aren't dumb. Most of the time if there is a sacrifice in part quality it's because of the accounting department trying to make it cheaper to manufacture.

Generally changing or improving a design component by adding or omitting a single item when isn't in accordance to GM's service procedures (ie. Not replacing TTY bolts or adding additional RTV as a "backup") doesn't work well, unless you change the entire design.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Of course not! I would have done right the first (or second) time with the correct part that the GM catalog indicated, replaced the torque to yield bolts, and not used additional RTV.


I did use a GM indicated part though. Sucks they trust a 3rd party company to make it within their specifications, stamp their name brand on it, that doesn’t make a good part. I should have known at paper gasket. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

The GM indicated part is this:



JLL said:


> I bought part# 55486342 for my rebuild. I'm not sure which that is but it was $133 after taxes.


Not the $70 part you bought the first time.

What catalog did you use to get the part number you purchased the first time?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> The GM indicated part is this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rock Auto, which is trusted, but that isn’t real important. It was an AC Delco gold as detailed here: Auto Parts: Water Pumps and Gaskets for GM Vehicles | ACDelco. Saying premium and gold would portray it to be endorsed and of like OE quality as it’s on their website as such. Honestly kind of BS.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Rock Auto, which is trusted, but that isn’t real important. It was an AC Delco gold as detailed here: Auto Parts: Water Pumps and Gaskets for GM Vehicles | ACDelco. Saying premium and gold would portray it to be endorsed and of like OE quality as it’s on their website as such. Honestly kind of BS.


I hear you. But "like OE" is not OEM. After ordering parts professionally for a decade, I can tell you that aftermarket parts catalogs are only completely accurate 80% of the time with aftermarket parts. With OEM parts from my experience that number drops to 50% if it even lists them at all.

I've learned if your looking for a GM part, call GM of reference a GM catalog.

RockAuto isn't GM
NAPA isn't GM
Even ACDELCO isn't GM. I used to buy ACDELCO pumps for Fords and Dodges because they were better than the Dorman pumps that were available. Now ACDELCO does make OEM parts for GM, but you always want to reference GM parts diagrams before buying parts.

It's confusing. I know.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Yep, ACDelco is nothing but aftermarket trash IMO. They just “vet” it which really means nothing. Just pay for the name more than likely. Won’t be buying anything but complete authentic now.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Yep, ACDelco is nothing but aftermarket trash IMO. They just “vet” it which really means nothing. Just pay for the name more than likely. Won’t be buying anything but complete authentic now.


Not ALL ACDELCO parts are low quality. But you gotta be careful because as you now know some are.

As a rule of thumb, if you have a cheaper part and a more expensive part, 90% of the time, the more expensive part is better quality.


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