# Does automatic really suck?



## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

I'm considering getting into an auto for a couple reasons and was wondering what you guys thought. 

The main reason is because manuals are scarce so finding a good deal on one has been challenging. 
Other reasons include wanting to add remote start without worry, convenience of not always doing something, and the annoyance of stop and go traffic. 
I want to eventually drop the Cruze on coils so I can see it being better at speed bumps and drive ways too.

I've always preferred manuals but I'm not driving my Cruze in a way that warrants having one. How would the manumatic handle if I ever took it to a track day? Would it be lame?

The tune is on my to do list as well and I hear that helps the shift points greatly.

Do you regret auto over manual or vice versa?



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## 2013Cruze (Aug 4, 2012)

I have a 2013 Cruze LTZ RS.

I have no regrets. If I had to do it all over again I would.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

If the Cruze was only available in auto, I wouldn't own one right now. That was my story in 2011 and after spending a whole week with an auto, I know I made the right decision. 

While up shifts are fine, it does tend to hold out gears for a while, gear hunts constantly in traffic, and downshifts are very confused. There are a lot better transmissions out in the market IMO. 

On the other hand, the manual is great and easy to drive. There's a proper ratio for every speed and you can run the engine at a lower RPM than any other 4 cylinder I've ever driven. 

FWIW, I drive my Cruze every day in heavy traffic - I bought it before knowing I'd be moving here. I thought I'd hate having a manual again, but it's much easier to drive than my Honda was.


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## mabzmuzik (Jul 19, 2012)

I am fine with my auto. No regrets.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I have been very impressed with how my ECO MT has handled stop & go traffic. I find it easier to hold the clutch down than fight the constant roll forward pressure of the brakes. I drove a 2013 1LT AT for three days this spring and couldn't wait to get back to my manual transmission.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

obermd said:


> I have been very impressed with how my ECO MT has handled stop & go traffic. I find it easier to hold the clutch down than fight the constant roll forward pressure of the brakes. I drove a 2013 1LT AT for three days this spring and couldn't wait to get back to my manual transmission.


What forward pressure under brakes? I have a diesel auto and came from a manual 3.8 V6 Commodore and I am equally happy with either. If you read the road test on the 1.6 Holden SRI auto you will find that the Aussies have improved the way the auto works and I feel sure this will filter to the US Cruze sometime.


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## perlionex (Mar 10, 2011)

You do lose some power with the automatic transmission as there's more drivetrain loss than with a manual.

However, with the Trifecta tune for the TCM, you'll actually find the transmission shifting faster than a manual. You can also use the manumatic on the track with no problems, although you have to manage the shifts a bit more deliberately as the gearbox won't shift if it will cause the engine to overrev. The transmission also does stay in gear a bit more, which fits my driving style as it doesn't hunt as much and it allows me to quickly accelerate when I want to.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

If you are conscious to what gear your car is in and when, then yes.

If you get in, drive it, and not know/care about the difference of if the car is blowing up or not (which is probably very few CT'ers), then no.

Will it get you from point A to point B like a Camry? Yes.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> If you get in, drive it, and not know/care about the difference of if the car is blowing up or not (which is probably very few CT'ers), then no.


You mean you don't like the engine screaming at the top of its lungs just to speed up 10 MPH? Man that gets annoying...just go to and stay in 5th! There's like a micrometer of difference in the gas pedal between making it drop that extra gear.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Q: Does automatic really suck?

A: Yes

Drive both and make the call. The gearing in the Eco is a little funky (super short 1st gear, big gaps to 2nd and 3rd) but easy to get used to, regular manual may be better. Eco MT is the undisputed fuel economy champ if that matters to you.

The auto may be better with a tune, but better than what? Another auto? Anyway you slice it, if you like manuals you may regret not getting one. As jblackburn said, if there was no manual available I wouldn't own one. I get the feeling those who are happy with the auto simply don't know what they're missing.


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## Nathan of Aus. (May 16, 2013)

As Aussie said the new 1.6T SRi got a new 6-speed auto which is significantly better than the old 6-speed auto that you fella's still have in US. The 6-speed auto that you have tends to "hunt" for gears when you encounter hills. GM themselves said that they placed too much emphasis on getting the best fuel economy by always being at the lowest practical rpm at the cost of acceleration and responsiveness.


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## RollinOn18s (Mar 28, 2013)

Yes auto does suck imo

much like others have said I would not own my rs if it only came auto


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> You mean you don't like the engine screaming at the top of its lungs just to speed up 10 MPH? Man that gets annoying...just go to and stay in 5th! There's like a micrometer of difference in the gas pedal between making it drop that extra gear.


At the FTE meet on Sunday, a guy had been helping a friend replace the engine in his '06 Fusion on Saturday and had to help that evening too. Said friend is an accountant. Apparently the trans went into limp mode which locked it in 2nd gear, and he went on the highway with it. Redlined the poor thing for who knows how many miles, had no idea he was doing that, and blew it. I didn't hear if there were already other problems going on or not, but they dropped a new crate engine in from Ford on Saturday (he gets deals on new engines since he works at a dealer).


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## cronyjabrony (Aug 10, 2012)

I've tossed around auto vs manual but at the end of the day small cars with small engines are way more fun to drive with a manual and there is nothing better than the 2nd gear chirp of the tires that I doubt the auto guys can get. Sometimes on lazy days or bad traffic I wish I had an auto but 99% of the time I know I made the right decision getting a manual and enjoy driving my car.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

cronyjabrony said:


> I've tossed around auto vs manual but at the end of the day small cars with small engines are way more fun to drive with a manual and there is nothing better than the 2nd gear chirp of the tires that I doubt the auto guys can get. Sometimes on lazy days or bad traffic I wish I had an auto but 99% of the time I know I made the right decision getting a manual and enjoy driving my car.


Drive a Jeep Wrangler with a manual and then let me know what you think of having a manual.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Sunline Fan said:


> Drive a Jeep Wrangler with a manual and then let me know what you think of having a manual.


I loved the manual Cherokees. Jeeps have terrible automatics. 


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm the exact opposite as most who have commented, if the cruze only came with a manual I would not own one. All of the complaints I hear people saying are simply untrue if you drive the automatic daily(maybe due to the learning transmission?). There is absolutely no hunting for gears on hills & I never get unwanted downshifts or more gears than I want. I find I have to press 1/4 pedal just to get the trans to downshift one gear, about half pedal for two gears. It will hold those gears to a higher RPM than you would expect, unless you ease off the pedal or are already using less than half pedal. 

The only way I can figure someone found fault is if they drove constantly at a shift point speed. If you drive 35mph roads in D or manual mode you would be in 5th gear, in either mode if your speed drops to 28mph the car will automaticly downshift to 4th gear to avoid stalling the engine. If one is going to keep having to slow past 28mph on the 35mph road because of traffic just leave it in manual mode in 4th gear..... no hunting at all(the same thing you would do with a manual trans in a similar situation). 

Thats just one gear example, there is a few more speeds one would not want to drive. 2-3shift is around 12mph, 3-4 18mph, 4-5 28mph, 5-6 40mph. IF you are expereincing hunting for gears in D all you need to do is use manual mode to hold the lower gear as I said above or keep your speed above the downshift point for the gear you are in.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

There is a difference in how some 2012-2013 cruze automatics behave in Manual mode. With my 1LT RS I can give the car full throttle in every gear in manual mode and the car will not automatically downshift or upshift, it just holds the gear like a manual trans car( although it will still automatically downshift when slowing down at set speeds as mentioned above).

A few users on here with ECO automatics say they act more like a normal automatic, if given enough throttle in manual mode it will cause the trans to downshift. 

I read on some random website the ECO trans was programmed this way but could never get confirmation if this was changed for after a certain date in 2012 or if it was just an ECO automatic thing. I tried polling other users about this and got nowhere.


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## custer3_5 (May 8, 2013)

I wanted the mt. But the wife can't drive a stick. I have tried on many occasions to teach her and have failed. So I knew when we went looking for a car that I would get stuck with an at. I will admit that a mt is more fun to drive but the at can be very convenient.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Thanks for the input. 

I've always preferred manuals so maybe I'm just getting lazy. This is first car I baby though so maybe a reason why I "don't have fun with it". Never had a screen telling me how much gas I was saving (or wasting) before. 

I do plan on doing a thorough test drive but I doubt I could get some real driving feel in just a test drive. Maybe I should rent one a couple days.

Big part of me is saying go with the auto but at the same time I feel I'll regret not getting the mt.

Anyone drive in manumatic often?

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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

It was in the late 80's that all that complicated mechanical speed control devices have been replaced by an 89 cent microcontroller for speed and shift control, but yet the repair cost on these far simpler automatic transmission have more than tripled. Countless people were screwed in getting their AT's replaced when the key problem was a loose wire someplace.

Wasn't too bad when a separate AT module was use with PROM, now that incorporated in the PCM with flashram, what in the heck are they thinking? Energized two of those four solenoid valves at the same time, the transmission will kill itself. Not two bad when this happens with your PC that is no longer a personal computer but a public computer now. We are led by idiots!

Unlike the rugged GM TH-400 and Ford C-4 transmission where you could actually use the torque converter to do a dyno load test, can't do that anymore, burn the darn things up. If stuck with an auto, first thing I would do is to add additional AT fluid cooling. 

Ha, you want problems, we have problems. Do you want to have control in your life, or should we take over that control?

Wife tried to teach her daughter how to shift, after two hours, gave up. I took over, nobody likes to be accused of having the inability of not being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Just requires a tad of co-ordination between your two feet. After about 15 minutes was driving like a pro. 

Not completely against some form of automation, can't live without cruise control. All my kids said stuff sucks, really haven't picked up on the meaning of that phase yet, must be getting old.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

I don't know if the same automatic is used in all different levels of the Cruze, but the automatic in the base 1.8 LS is a piece of crap. I leased a 2012 1.8 LS automatic and it was so bad, I complained to everybody who would listen and then after one full year, the dealer took it back as a trade in and gave me a 2013 LS manual. The manual is silky smooth to shift, with gears matched nicely to the torque curve and the clutch is almost effortless to push down. And the clutch take up on 1st gear starts and upshifts is very smooth and gradual, yet you can bark the tires in a 1-2 upshift if you want to. First thing I did when I got the 2013 manual car home was to put a piece of black tape over the upshift light on the dashboard. It was super annoying. I will decide when I want to shift, based on my mood, traffic conditions, etc. Have I suffered mpg because I shift when I want to? Couldn't care less. So what if I get 31 mpg overall instead of 32. I used to get 12 in my big muscle cars.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Sunline Fan said:


> Drive a Jeep Wrangler with a manual and then let me know what you think of having a manual.


As far as I can tell, nobody actually "drives" a Jeep Wrangler unless it's off-road. On-road you are simply "tolerating" a Wrangler. 

My brother has had two of them and I don't know why... his new one is the four door version.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Erastimus said:


> I don't know if the same automatic is used in all different levels of the Cruze, but the automatic in the base 1.8 LS is a piece of crap. I leased a 2012 1.8 LS automatic and it was so bad, I complained to everybody who would listen and then after one full year, the dealer took it back as a trade in and gave me a 2013 LS manual.


no it's not the same transmission if I remember right and I think GM even made some changes to the 2013 LS automatic.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

spacedout said:


> no it's not the same transmission if I remember right and I think GM even made some changes to the 2013 LS automatic.


I think the auto is the same between all trim levels, and it appears to be the same for 2012/2013.

It was re-designed in OTHER countries for the 1.8L trim-line, and is said to be much-improved over the previous version.


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## caughron01 (Mar 25, 2013)

obermd said:


> I have been very impressed with how my ECO MT has handled stop & go traffic. I find it easier to hold the clutch down than fight the constant roll forward pressure of the brakes. I drove a 2013 1LT AT for three days this spring and couldn't wait to get back to my manual transmission.


I don't have that problem, my transmission disengages at a light. Did the transmission not disengage on that one?

Now I think it is jerky as **** and very confused lol.... I don't understand how the tranny could get released into market the way it is. Had I known how jerky this transmission was I would have gone manual.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Sunline Fan said:


> If you are conscious to what gear your car is in and when, then yes.


Even while I was driving the Pontiac Transport and Montana mini-vans which were both automatics, I always knew what gear I was in. I have yet to drive an automatic for an extended period of time (few days or more) that I really liked. My preference will always be go to a manual if it's available for that car.


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## Vetterin (Mar 27, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> If the Cruze was only available in auto, I wouldn't own one right now. That was my story in 2011 and after spending a whole week with an auto, I know I made the right decision.
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


 :iagree:


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

caughron01 said:


> I don't have that problem, my transmission disengages at a light. Did the transmission not disengage on that one?
> 
> Now I think it is jerky as **** and very confused lol.... I don't understand how the tranny could get released into market the way it is. Had I known how jerky this transmission was I would have gone manual.


Not that I could tell. I kept looking for it to disengage. I also felt the 1LT's transmission was way too sensitive to throttle inputs downshifting and screaming the engine for even a small increase in speed on the highway. When I put it into manual mode it was much better behaved on the highway. On cruise control it was well behaved as well, downshifting only when needed.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> Even while I was driving the Pontiac Transport and Montana mini-vans which were both automatics, I always knew what gear I was in. I have yet to drive an automatic for an extended period of time (few days or more) that I really liked. My preference will always be go to a manual if it's available for that car.


I had one that shifted when I liked it to, but I hated the gear ratios. They were WAY too tall for the small engine.

They "improved" that in later years by replacing the bulletproof 4-speed with a 5-speed that liked to blow up at 70,000 miles.

It's hard to tell what gear our 6-speed Camry is in sometimes, mainly because the transmission is so busy with the torque converter. Just accelerating to 35-40, you've gone through 5 gears and the torque converter locks/unlocks 4 times. It skips through 2nd too quick, goes to 3rd at 1500 RPM, then unlocks or downshifts again when you press harder on the gas...then shifts up again. I say "screw it" and leave it in sport mode, where it still shifts at the same RPMs, but leaves out the torque converter nonsense.

I could definitely feel the transmission disengage on the automatic I drove. What surprised me is how quickly it reacted and got back into drive. Definitely better than the 11 that would roll back, rev up, and then smash back into gear.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Mick - stick with the manual.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

obermd said:


> I also felt the 1LT's transmission was way too sensitive to throttle inputs downshifting and screaming the engine for even a small increase in speed on the highway.


I really think this is the learning transmission not knowing what you want. The reason I say this is I can drive my automatic at highway speeds in D and give it gas enough to accelerate in 6th without downshifting at all. I give it a bit more then I can get a downshift to 5th. On my car it seems to take 1/4-1/2 throttle or more to get a drop to 4th at highway speeds. 

Now when my girlfriend drives the car on the hwy 1 out of 10 times when she gives it gas she was getting it to downshift to 5th. I explained exactly how I was pressing the pedal and now she can drive the same as I can. Basically if you hit the gas instantly 1/8 pedal you get a downshift but if you ease onto the gas then give it a bit more a second later you get no downshift. 

Now the whole learning trans thing.... If I drive my car hard for awhile it then thinks I always want to downshift with even very light throttle(the ease onto the gas mentioned above still works though). I wonder if this learning gets confused when you get multiple drivers or when the car is used as a loaner/rental?


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## CruzeN'Idaho (May 31, 2013)

Personal opinion here (as is much of this entire thread) *but I think that on CruzeTalk it is almost trendy/kitschy to have the manual transmission AND to bash the performance of the auto.* "It's what all the cool kids are doing on the forum...." so to speak. 

It seems to me that MOST of the people that constantly bash the auto-tranny on the Cruze are people that don't own a model WITH the auto transmission. They have had limited, and in my opinion somewhat jaded, experience with the auto and have made some snap, overarching judgements on its performance based on that limited exposure. I like this forum, but there seem to be a lot of what I would call "car nerds" here as well that measure every downshift or time in a particular gear mentally. The general car buying/consuming public does not do that. They buy the auto transmission as it is convenient as he!! and they just drive the car from point A to point B.

I have never liked a GM car more than I like my 2011 Cruze. It suits my needs perfectly - along with the apparently god-forsaken auto-tranny. I don't drive it like a punk kid - I just put the thing in D and go to work - and then on the way home I put it into D and drive home. I get on the freeway at times and it gets me up to traffic speeds perfectly and allows me to pass when needed. I get fantastic gas mileage - probably as I don't rod the thing. What am I missing here? 

The automatic transmission is fine and always has been from my perspective. 

I may just be a completely undiscerning car buyer.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> I wonder if this learning gets confused when you get multiple drivers or when the car is used as a loaner/rental?


Probably. But the 2012 Malibu rentals I've driven while the Cruze was in the shop were perfectly fine IMO...one of the better automatic/engine combinations I've driven. Well-spaced gears, no hunting, and smooth shifts.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

CruzeN'Idaho said:


> It seems to me that MOST of the people that constantly bash the auto-tranny on the Cruze are people that don't own a model WITH the auto transmission.


Lol, of course the people that don't like the auto don't own one. Why would you pay more for a transmission you don't like? 

That said, i don't like many auto transmissions. In trucks they're fine, but i need more fun to drive in a car.


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## CruzeN'Idaho (May 31, 2013)

Hoon said:


> Lol, of course the people that don't like the auto don't own one. Why would you pay more for a transmission you don't like?
> 
> That said, i don't like many auto transmissions. In trucks they're fine, but i need more fun to drive in a car.


LOL - point was that people that actually USE the auto transmission on a daily basis don't seem to have the same never-ending negative attitude about it. So in real-life situations -not a one time rental or use for a day from their friend - the auto transmission is not nearly as maligned as it is on these forms by the stick shift elitists.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Hoon said:


> Lol, of course the people that don't like the auto don't own one. Why would you pay more for a transmission you don't like?


I'm pretty sure he was trying to point out that the people who complain the most are the ones who don't have any long term experience with the automatic and also prefer/own a manual. If I had a questions about the automatic I would certainly hope users with manual transmissions would not be the majority of responses, since their opinion is jaded. 

I certainly would never want a car payment on something with a manual, clutches are considered a wear component so even at 25,000miles you would have to shell out $1600+ for a new clutch. With an automatic your covered 100% the entire 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

After many years of sticks I had to switch to auto because of an Achilles tendon issue. I had chronic inflammation of the tendon and it essentially completely went a way when I switched to an auto. It was the stop-and-go rush hour traffic that did it, I guess.



Blue Angel said:


> Eco MT is the undisputed fuel economy champ if that matters to you.


Well, of course the new diesel is definitely a contender in that dept if diesel is your sort of thing.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Eugene_C said:


> After many years of sticks I had to switch to auto because of an Achilles tendon issue. I had chronic inflammation of the tendon and it essentially completely went a way when I switched to an auto. It was the stop-and-go rush hour traffic that did it, I guess.


Now the question is what do you think of the cruze automatic?


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

CruzeN'Idaho said:


> LOL - point was that people that actually USE the auto transmission on a daily basis don't seem to have the same never-ending negative attitude about it. So in real-life situations -not a one time rental or use for a day from their friend - the auto transmission is not nearly as maligned as it is on these forms by the stick shift elitists.


I have the 6A, have for almost 10k now, and I don't like it.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Sunline Fan said:


> I have the 6A, have for almost 10k now, and I don't like it.


Care to elaborate?


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Care to elaborate?


Shift points and low end gearing, but especially shift points. I would like it to allow me to go into a gear sooner even if it doesn't chose it like that in full auto mode. I'm also not thrilled with how it handles starting from a stop. 1st gear will knock you back in your seat and rev high. 2nd gear isn't bad but still can. 3rd gear uses the TC to get you going too much, and thus revs up as high as 2nd, though it isn't as jerky.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

CruzeN'Idaho said:


> It seems to me that MOST of the people that constantly bash the auto-tranny on the Cruze are people that don't own a model WITH the auto transmission... ...I like this forum, but there seem to be a lot of what I would call "car nerds" here as well that measure every downshift or time in a particular gear mentally. The general car buying/consuming public does not do that. They buy the auto transmission as it is convenient as he!! and they just drive the car from point A to point B.


You make good points. Car forums tend to attract enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are "more likely" to desire a manual transmission. Therefore, I would think that a car forum such as this will have a higher percentage of manual transmission owners that doesn't accurately reflect the manual/auto sales statistics in the real world. This is clearly shown when you ask a question on the forum, especially a question like "Auto or Manual?"

How about this:

Manual = Fun to drive, engaging, economic
Auto = Practical, easy, my wife and kids can drive it too

And I prefer the term "geek" to "nerd", but I see where you're going with that. Some people treat their cars like appliances that simply transport them to and from their destinations and don't ever get a second thought. Other people, like me, are obsessed with understanding everything about the way their car works and treat it more like a hobby. As such, I want the transmission option that involves the driver in the act of driving.

I prefer to "drive" my cars, and others prefer to just steer them. To each thier own. I'm glad my mother drives an automatic because I think she's safer that way. And so are other people, for that matter. Between her lack of attention span (for driving), the dog in the passenger seat and her track record of running over inanimate objects (I wish I was kidding), she needs all the help she can get. There's a transmission choice for everyone.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Sunline Fan said:


> I'm also not thrilled with how it handles starting from a stop. 1st gear will knock you back in your seat and rev high. 2nd gear isn't bad but still can.


My GF's BMW is the same way. I prefer to shift it manually and to start in 2nd gear. First is really short and it is not smooth at all... really disapointing, actually. When starting off in 2nd it works beautifully and has lots of torque for daily driving. I wish I could set the car up to just skip first gear altogether when putting it in D, but it insists on using first gear and being too jerky. I guess they have to have the low 1st to get the 0-60 times published, but it's not an M car, it's a 323i with a 2.5L six. It's no hot rod but it tries hard to pretend. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that car that a manual gearbox wouldn't fix.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Sunline Fan said:


> Shift points and low end gearing, but especially shift points. I would like it to allow me to go into a gear sooner even if it doesn't chose it like that in full auto mode. I'm also not thrilled with how it handles starting from a stop. 1st gear will knock you back in your seat and rev high. 2nd gear isn't bad but still can. 3rd gear uses the TC to get you going too much, and thus revs up as high as 2nd, though it isn't as jerky.


Thanks for the reply. I also am constantly trying to get into 5th and 6th gear much sooner than the car will let me when in manual mode. All the other gears I don't seem to have that problem. 

If your off the line is behaving like that I would say thats not normal with an easy foot it takes off smooth as silk and shifts well below 2500RPM in each gear. However you can get it to act the way you are describing with anything more than 1/4 pedal gas. 

I actually think the reason 1-3 gear are so rev happy even with as little as 1/4 throttle is the transmission is smarter than us when it comes to MPG. Even with a light foot in D it will hit 3500RPM in 1-3 gear. I believe the graph below is the reason. 

1-3 are the only gears you really get any torque multiplication, they are geared so low to get a 3,000lb car moving off the line with a tiny engine. Before full boost we are still driving a 1.4L, the car needs those close ratio low gearing to get you moving and into the MPG sweet spot quicker. you can try taking off from a stop in 2nd or 3rd gear with the automatic, the car is a snail.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

The Holden Cruze diesel uses the 6T45 auto and I have none of the problems people claim to have. The 1.8 has the 6T30, the 1.4T has the 6T40. These are all in the same transmission family so I would expect a similar performance. By the way the auto in my car will hold a lower gear going down hill at even 50k (30mph) in drive. Apparently the gearbox senses when you want to keep the speed down. This is mentioned in the owners manual and really works.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> You make good points. Car forums tend to attract enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are "more likely" to desire a manual transmission. Therefore, I would think that a car forum such as this will have a higher percentage of manual transmission owners that doesn't accurately reflect the manual/auto sales statistics in the real world.


Most of us have all owned an automatic transmission at some point, and we're picky about what we look for in the drivability of an automatic transmission. There are plenty of other auto transmissions I don't like (my dad's car is terrible), and some that I have little to no problem with. 

You can still be an enthusiast with an automatic car...especially if very few or no MT's were ever made (Volvo imported ~1000 in one model year, and I wasn't lucky enough to jump on one soon enough - they just figured us Americans weren't big fans of manuals).



> If I had a questions about the automatic I would certainly hope users with manual transmissions would not be the majority of responses, since their opinion is jaded.


About which to pick, or a problem with the automatic? I'm sure anyone would be glad to help you with a problem with it.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> You can still be an enthusiast with an automatic car...


Absolutely true. Look at guys who are seriously into drag racing, for example.

I'm just talking in very general terms. If you're looking for car nerds you don't go to Walmart, you come to a car forum!


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

besides the harsh downshift sometimes at 25 mph im happy with the AT in my '12 1.4 after 8k miles. i rarely use more then 1/4-1/3 throttle unless im on a hwy entrance ramp. rpm's go up to 3.5-4k sometimes in the lower gears, whats the problem with that? you are giving it gas to go and thats what its doin for ya. probably all in the way we drive. maybe less gas till 2nd and 3rd gear(whats that like 2-3 seconds)and then get on the gas a little more and the trany would shift so high when starting out from a stop. i know it does suck when people say"just drive like this, not your way" when solving a problem, issue or concern.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

I specifically ordered an AT in my 88 Supra Turbo, with that kind of power, too easy to tear up a clutch. So we can say the choice is application specific.

When backing up with my 12 2LT is the times I wish I had an AT, gear ratio is about the same as taking off in second forward gear and in tight parking, have to resort to dreaded clutch slipping.

Torque converter can increase the numeric gear factor as much as three. And I do tend to drive an AT a bit harder than an MT.

Old 48 Dodge had an MT but with a practically bullet proof torque converter between the engine and the clutch. That was one of the best combinations I have ever experience. Could put it in reverse and release the clutch with the brake on, then lightly hit the gas and drive it exactly like an AT.

If Cruze adds a TC to the MT, would be first in line to buy one. Could even put that Dodge in 3rd gear, release the clutch with the brake on, and take off perfectly smooth without any engine stutter or hesitation. In heavy city traffic, just leave it in first gear and drive it like an AT. The absolute best of both worlds. And clutch wear was minimal, even if you can't walk and chew gum at the same time.


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## cronyjabrony (Aug 10, 2012)

CruzeN'Idaho said:


> Personal opinion here (as is much of this entire thread) *but I think that on CruzeTalk it is almost trendy/kitschy to have the manual transmission AND to bash the performance of the auto.* "It's what all the cool kids are doing on the forum...." so to speak.
> 
> It seems to me that MOST of the people that constantly bash the auto-tranny on the Cruze are people that don't own a model WITH the auto transmission. They have had limited, and in my opinion somewhat jaded, experience with the auto and have made some snap, overarching judgements on its performance based on that limited exposure. I like this forum, but there seem to be a lot of what I would call "car nerds" here as well that measure every downshift or time in a particular gear mentally. The general car buying/consuming public does not do that. They buy the auto transmission as it is convenient as he!! and they just drive the car from point A to point B.
> 
> ...


Obviously coming from a non car enthusiast and someone who does not enjoy the whole driving experience. Well some of us want more than stock, and like having more control over how our car functions, I prefer a manual in the winter as I know what gear its in and can maintain more control, not to mention the manual is more efficient then the automatic, but sir you are obviously one of the non enthusiasts I pass every day in my commutes. I mod my car for a pleasurable driving experience and to pick it out of a parking lot. My car expresses my personality and character, at the end of the day the commute should be a pleasurable experience not just an A to B experience.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

spacedout said:


> I'm the exact opposite as most who have commented, if the cruze only came with a manual I would not own one. All of the complaints I hear people saying are simply untrue if you drive the automatic daily(maybe due to the learning transmission?). There is absolutely no hunting for gears on hills & I never get unwanted downshifts or more gears than I want. I find I have to press 1/4 pedal just to get the trans to downshift one gear, about half pedal for two gears. It will hold those gears to a higher RPM than you would expect, unless you ease off the pedal or are already using less than half pedal.
> 
> The only way I can figure someone found fault is if they drove constantly at a shift point speed. If you drive 35mph roads in D or manual mode you would be in 5th gear, in either mode if your speed drops to 28mph the car will automaticly downshift to 4th gear to avoid stalling the engine. If one is going to keep having to slow past 28mph on the 35mph road because of traffic just leave it in manual mode in 4th gear..... no hunting at all(the same thing you would do with a manual trans in a similar situation).
> 
> Thats just one gear example, there is a few more speeds one would not want to drive. 2-3shift is around 12mph, 3-4 18mph, 4-5 28mph, 5-6 40mph. IF you are expereincing hunting for gears in D all you need to do is use manual mode to hold the lower gear as I said above or keep your speed above the downshift point for the gear you are in.


All automatics have shift point speed issues. Even the Cruze MT's have this issue but it shows in that idiot shift up light and not in transmission hunting. The gear hunting for small accelerations were occurring at 60 MPH and higher - definitely not a shift point.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hey caughron01

Have you discussed this jerky transmission issue with your dealer? I would like to assist you in getting this issue resolved. Please send me a PM if you would like my assistance. 

Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

obermd said:


> All automatics have shift point speed issues. Even the Cruze MT's have this issue but it shows in that idiot shift up light and not in transmission hunting. The gear hunting for small accelerations were occurring at 60 MPH and higher - definitely not a shift point.


The harder you hit the gas with an AT, the rougher the shift.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Something manual owners should be aware of, a diesel engine has a minimum rev limit as well as a maximum, so the way you describe economy driving could actually harm a diesel engine whereas an auto protects the car from drivers who aren't aware of this.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> Something manual owners should be aware of, a diesel engine has a minimum rev limit as well as a maximum, so the way you describe economy driving could actually harm a diesel engine whereas an auto protects the car from drivers who aren't aware of this.


A diesel, especially turbodiesel, powerband generally tapers off significantly well before redline. That's when you know to shift, and the rest of the rev range is just "safety". Kinda like the 1.4t runs out of steam at 5000but still revs to 6500. 


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

obermd said:


> The gear hunting for small accelerations were occurring at 60 MPH and higher - definitely not a shift point.


The only thing I can think of is you are used to a manual trans where the gas pedal can be pressed with as much throttle input as you like. With the automatic you are really need to learn to press the pedal lightly at first then ease into the throttle when wanting to accelerate. It will not hunt at all and more than likely will not downshift. I can drive hundreds of hwy miles in D and always get the trans to behave as I like. 

if one drives like that it requires 1/4-1/2 throttle to get it to downshift at all and its very progressive, about 1/4 pedal to drop to 5th, 1/2 pedal or more to drop down to 4th gear.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

This thread has turned weird.....the OP's question was admittedly, a bit leading........but it has turned into a why mine is better than yours discussion...not very helpful, to anyone.

To the OP.....If you have never experienced a automatic transmission that tailers its shift quality and shift timing to your driving habits, known as a 'Adaptive' it will feel unusual for about the first thousand miles.
Initially it will shift higher on the RPM scale and, if you are a bit of a heavy foot individual in the stoplight to stoplight Grand Prix, it will stay that way.
If you are a lightfoot, you will notice the shift points dropping lower and lower as it tailors itself to you....this has been the case for me, and I am discussing my 12 eco auto.
I have 3 manual trans cars....they are part of my fun fleet.
I have 3 auto shift cars in that fleet as well and each has been re programed for a harder, more authoritive upshift.
Each has the power to utilize the programming and it increases the entertainment.

My Cruze is part of my fleet of drivers......I purchassed it expressly for the fabulous mileage, good looks (IMO) and rather pleasant ride/handling.
I was torn between the auto and the manual....I like to shift, it enhances the driving experience for me....but, at the end of a long day, I decided the put it in D and let it do its thing would be more appropriate.
It upshifts and downshifts just fine.....the timing is so, spot on, for me I see no pleasure or reason to even play with the shifter manual mode......its not a manual and it does not behave as one.

So, to the OP........The best advice I can give is to recommend driving an auto for a bit......rent one, or ask the dealer you are working with if they have a used one similar in equipment you could try for an hour or two.....and tell them why.

Otherwise, you're stuck with this guy says it's good, that guy says it sucks.....and you will be no further along than when you originally posted.

Good luck,
Rob


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## Dark Matter (May 16, 2012)

When I want responsive performance I drive my MT S4. If you want a responsive compact, you should drive a Mazda3 or a Ford Focus. The strength of the Cruze is its nice interior, quiet, refined ride, space up front and in the trunk, and excellent economy. Responsive? With 138 HP the Cruze does not offer any serious acceleration, although the turbo delivers decent torque around town. The suspension is good, but the steering is overboosted and offers zero feedback so it is not rewarding to test limits, while the brakes are merely adequate. This is a car that does does not want to be pushed, and the automatic fits its personality well: its is smooth and refined (in its latest software incarnation at least) in delivering an insular driving experience and, in that regard, it is superb.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

spacedout said:


> The only thing I can think of is you are used to a manual trans where the gas pedal can be pressed with as much throttle input as you like. With the automatic you are really need to learn to press the pedal lightly at first then ease into the throttle when wanting to accelerate. It will not hunt at all and more than likely will not downshift. I can drive hundreds of hwy miles in D and always get the trans to behave as I like.
> 
> if one drives like that it requires 1/4-1/2 throttle to get it to downshift at all and its very progressive, about 1/4 pedal to drop to 5th, 1/2 pedal or more to drop down to 4th gear.


I drove an automatic for 22 years and have driven rental cars off and on over the years. Rentals are almost always automatic (never had a manual rental). The Cruze AT throttle is the twitchiest throttle I have ever driven. Now it is possible that whomever was driving this rental before me was very heavy footed, but after three days the transmission should have learned my driving style. Adaptive throttles don't take that long to adapt.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

obermd said:


> Adaptive throttles don't take that long to adapt.



I'm not sure about that with my cruze it seemed to take 300-1500 miles before it started to behave normal. It also seemed to get even better the more miles I get on the car & the more varied driving I could do. I would say by 3,000miles it was set pretty well to my throttle inputs. 

Imagining how allot of people drive rentals I can see these cars adapt to be super touchy at highway speeds.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Dark Matter said:


> When I want responsive performance I drive my MT S4. If you want a responsive compact, you should drive a Mazda3 or a Ford Focus. The strength of the Cruze is its nice interior, quiet, refined ride, space up front and in the trunk, and excellent economy. Responsive? With 138 HP the Cruze does not offer any serious acceleration, although the turbo delivers decent torque around town. The suspension is good, but the steering is overboosted and offers zero feedback so it is not rewarding to test limits, while the brakes are merely adequate. This is a car that does does not want to be pushed, and the automatic fits its personality well: its is smooth and refined (in its latest software incarnation at least) in delivering an insular driving experience and, in that regard, it is superb.


Disagree. The Cruze is a blast to drive in a manual. I beat a Mazda 3 2.3 til 70 mph from a stoplight the other night, and it's way quieter and more refined than it too. The Mazda is a blast to throw around, but so is the Cruze, especially with better tires on it. It's a platform suited to handling very well for a FWD.

The Focus...meh. Very weak low end power and a cramped, busy interior. 


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

obermd said:


> Mick - stick with the manual.


I'll try but so far I'm only finding used autos with decent pricing.



jblackburn said:


> Probably. But the 2012 Malibu rentals I've driven while the Cruze was in the shop were perfectly fine IMO...one of the better automatic/engine combinations I've driven. Well-spaced gears, no hunting, and smooth shifts.


I've driven a 2013 Malibu and loved it. (Cruze interior design is way better in my opinion). But if the Cruze drove the way the Malibu does in an auto, it would be no brainer for me. Being that it's only 185 hp, I'm wondering if the e85 tune would give it the same feel. 



cronyjabrony said:


> Obviously coming from a non car enthusiast and someone who does not enjoy the whole driving experience. Well some of us want more than stock, and like having more control over how our car functions, I prefer a manual in the winter as I know what gear its in and can maintain more control, not to mention the manual is more efficient then the automatic, but sir you are obviously one of the non enthusiasts I pass every day in my commutes. I mod my car for a pleasurable driving experience and to pick it out of a parking lot. My car expresses my personality and character, at the end of the day the commute should be a pleasurable experience not just an A to B experience.


Amen



Robby said:


> This thread has turned weird.....the OP's question was admittedly, a bit leading........but it has turned into a why mine is better than yours discussion...not very helpful, to anyone.
> 
> To the OP.....If you have never experienced a automatic transmission that tailers its shift quality and shift timing to your driving habits, known as a 'Adaptive' it will feel unusual for about the first thousand miles.
> Initially it will shift higher on the RPM scale and, if you are a bit of a heavy foot individual in the stoplight to stoplight Grand Prix, it will stay that way.
> ...


Honestly I like the diversity of the answers. Sometimes they go off topic but I end up learning something along the way. Plus it would make for a boring site if no one gave their 2 cents.
I'm more of a light foot driver but getting on the freeway with my 1.8 really sucks. I get left behind by all ATs unless I'm revving the heck out of it. And they seem to be driving normal. 

I said I would never drive an auto unless it was at least 6 cylinder or truck but now I'm not so sure.
I think a rental is in order. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> A diesel, especially turbodiesel, powerband generally tapers off significantly well before redline. That's when you know to shift, and the rest of the rev range is just "safety". Kinda like the 1.4t runs out of steam at 5000but still revs to 6500.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I think you missed what I meant, you can't over rev a diesel, but you can under rev it with a MT and this is where you can do some serious damage especially if you came from an Eco. I am judging this from what I have seen on this forum on economy driving.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Hay every body how did he title this one and not have it deleted ?
OH yah it is VOTE for MICK ...
I would chime in on this but , the IT is just fine with IT'S Auto .


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Mick said:


> I'm considering getting into an auto for a couple reasons and was wondering what you guys thought.
> 
> The main reason is because manuals are scarce so finding a good deal on one has been challenging.
> Other reasons include wanting to add remote start without worry, convenience of not always doing something, and the annoyance of stop and go traffic.
> ...


Im probably the guy on this site who did the most extreme things with an Autobox : Lapping a Racetrack every week, Autocross and Drag racing.

Conclusion : Very satisfied.

The Cruze is my first car i owned with an Autobox and of course, its not a Manual, but we are in 2013 and Automatic are not the crap they use to be. The Autobox on the 1.4 is good and becomes VERY good with a Tune.

Tune the Engine, Tune the Tranny too and you're in buisness !


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok i had a 2011 AT and that thing shifted like it had arthritis BUT after i got it tuned, it was smooth sailing. It was only jerky on harsh acceleration or cold. 

I did not get a Manual because here in Miami it will just be a sore. Stop and go, then parking garages going up stop and go, i would hate my life and my arm would look like popeye. From what i hear 2012+ Cruzes have GREAT AT some will complain, some will be ok with it. It is a heavy car with 6 gears, so it is very confused.


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

Mick said:


> I'll try but so far I'm only finding used autos with decent pricing.


I don't think people realize how low MT sales have fallen. There was one model Honda brought out recently with a manual option and the MT sold fewer than 2,000 vehicles. It was not even enough to pay for the tooling and engineering for the MT, according to folks I know who work there. 

Someday soon MT might only be an aftermarket option on most models.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Aussie said:


> I think you missed what I meant, you can't over rev a diesel, but you can under rev it with a MT and this is where you can do some serious damage especially if you came from an Eco. I am judging this from what I have seen on this forum on economy driving.


This may be why the US/Canada Cruze ECO-D only comes in an automatic. I didn't know you could damage a diesel driving at too low of an RPM.


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## 2LTCroozer (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm in the market for a 2lt and am hoping for a manual. I've read a lot about the gear confusion and am a manual fan by nature. Are the manuals fun to drive? I know it's not an enthusiast car but I like to get after a bit when the situation allows.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Aussie said:


> I think you missed what I meant, you can't over rev a diesel, but you can under rev it with a MT and this is where you can do some serious damage especially if you came from an Eco. I am judging this from what I have seen on this forum on economy driving.


I just did some reading on this. It seems that with a thermostat controlled engine that can be held at proper operating temps, as well as using modern high pressure injection systems, this is not much of an issue. It seems this issue is most prevalent in large diesels used in generators and large yachts which operate at steady RPM under constant load for many hours at a time, all the time. This does not generally define an automobile engine.

It seems the main issue is due to low combustion temperatures resulting in incomplete fuel burn and resulting oil contamination. There's speculation that this is a non-issue in engines with a good piston ring design. If it were an issue with a car engine, the oil life monitoring system could/would be programmed to adjust the oil change intervals based on how much of this type of operation was occuring.

Another issue seems to be exhaust sediment build-up, but this can be cured by brief periods of high load/temperature operation. Most cars would see this on a fairly regular basis.

Huge industrial engines have operating ranges that are not to be deviated from, and this is due to damaging harmonics that exist due to the very large nature of the engines having very long crankshafts and spinning huge heavy connecting rods and pistons. Often these engines are rated for a certain number of hours OR a certain number of start-ups/shut-downs, because every time the engine is started or stopped it goes through that damaging low RPM harmonic "zone" which fatigues engine parts. This type of damage is not of concern in comparatively tiny automotive engines.

Low load/RPM diesel engine operation damage is demonstrated all the time with heavy trucks idling. Yes, it is common knowledge that idling a truck is hard on the engine, but no so much so that it has stopped people from doing it. Anti-idling pressure is coming down on the trucking industry because of emissions and fuel usage concerns, not as an effort to prolong the life of the engines.

One final note; for nearly two decades the ultimate "hypermiler's" car has been the VW TDI. These are offered with manual transmissions and are routinely hypermiled with fantastic results. I have yet to hear of an epedemic concerning failing TDI engines due to driving them gently for fuel economy.

I don't think low RPM damage is a valid concern for a diesel car engine.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Yup, great points there. As long as you're not lugging the diesel along BELOW idle speed it will be just fine. A TDI manual can cruise along AT idle because of the torque. 


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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

I've heard low RPM's are bad for marine diesels because they don't reach operating temperature but I think in cars you have a little more latitude to run at lower RPMs. 

I assume there is no MT for the US diesel yet because they are waiting to see what the sales do and they are trying to control development costs and keep prices down. I would guess their argument is that the Eco MT is enough for the MT crowd right now. 


It is strange that they don't feel any of the existing overseas MTs could be offered in the US. I'm guessing there must be a reason, but I can't fathom what that might be.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm late to the slugfest...

2The automatic transmission sucks. There is no other way of putting it. Trifecta TCM tune made it driveable but in the 2 days I flashed back to stock last week to help Vince with some data logs.. I was in PAIN!!!

I love the way my car drives now.. it just needed some help.

Ohh.. for all the manual transmission people bashing the automatic... you won't beat any of the automatics in a race.. just saying!


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## The_Madcat (Oct 6, 2012)

Remote start on a Cruze, in the cold of winter, is fairly worthless hehe. These engines will not heat up unless you are working them. They wont heat up just idling.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

ErikBEggs said:


> I'm late to the slugfest...
> 
> 2The automatic transmission sucks. There is no other way of putting it. Trifecta TCM tune made it driveable but in the 2 days I flashed back to stock last week to help Vince with some data logs.. I was in PAIN!!!
> 
> ...


Yep, like i said, a Tune helps alot, both the Engine and Autobox.

BTW my Fathers has a 2013 ECO Auto and i was very surprised to see how well his box was working, maybe GM got the programing right or he was lucky...


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## weimerrj (Dec 4, 2011)

Eugene_C said:


> ....
> 
> 
> It is strange that they don't feel any of the existing overseas MTs could be offered in the US. I'm guessing there must be a reason, but I can't fathom what that might be.


Probably has to do with US certification costs - they'd have to do it for each type of transmission and they probably figured that the automatic was the way to go at first, since most buyers in the US buy autos.

Whew, I almost used a lousy string of mixed metaphors (bang-for-the-buck when dipping their toes...) there. Thank God I thought better of that.


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## SeanKruze (May 15, 2013)

My wife has the 1LT auto 1.4 turbo and I got a 2LT manual 1.4 turbo a few months later. Just cause I wanted to row the boat again. Truthfully, in traffic hers feels easier to drive with less throttle than mine.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

The_Madcat said:


> Remote start on a Cruze, in the cold of winter, is fairly worthless hehe. These engines will not heat up unless you are working them. They wont heat up just idling.


It's true the engine warms slowly, but it sure does warm faster if you remote start for a few minutes before you drive off on the really cold days. I'm usually within earshot of the car, I just wait to leave until I drops off high idle(less than 2 minutes). shaves about the same off the engine warm up time(I have full heat 2miles sooner on the hwy). 

However remote start is a godsend in the summer time, If I am parked in the sun I can start the car a minute before I get to it in the parking lot to pre-cool the car. One just has to set all temp controls before turning off the car to make sure the AC is on and fan on max for when you do remote start. 

This really cools the drivers seat, normally even if the AC is on you are always getting into a car with a 110degree seat.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

One long needed accessory, and really don't know if the Cruze added this to the AT, is a temperature sensor that will ring loud bells and sound off alarms if the fluid temperature approached 270*F. Any AT designer will tell you this, but the bean counters won't listen.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

NickD said:


> One long needed accessory, and really don't know if the Cruze added this to the AT, is a temperature sensor that will ring loud bells and sound off alarms if the fluid temperature approached 270*F. Any AT designer will tell you this, but the bean counters won't listen.


I could never get the added gauges of the ScanguageII working in the cruze, but I had the transmission temp gauge working in my 2004 cavalier. took about an hour drive to even reach full operating temp(175degrees) and was pretty consistent only gaining about 5degrees in hills. I hope the cruze transmission cooling is as good as that car was.


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Poje said:


> Im probably the guy on this site who did the most extreme things with an Autobox : Lapping a Racetrack every week, Autocross and Drag racing.
> 
> Conclusion : Very satisfied.
> 
> ...


Nice I'd like to see some videos if you have any. I would probably only track once a month or every other month to keep the abuse at a minimum.

The trifecta takes care of tuning the tranny right or do you mean something else?



Eugene_C said:


> I don't think people realize how low MT sales have fallen. There was one model Honda brought out recently with a manual option and the MT sold fewer than 2,000 vehicles. It was not even enough to pay for the tooling and engineering for the MT, according to folks I know who work there.
> 
> Someday soon MT might only be an aftermarket option on most models.


Yeah my searches usually bring up 1 manual transmission for every 50 autos.



ErikBEggs said:


> I'm late to the slugfest...
> 
> 2The automatic transmission sucks. There is no other way of putting it. Trifecta TCM tune made it driveable but in the 2 days I flashed back to stock last week to help Vince with some data logs.. I was in PAIN!!!
> 
> ...


Haha, I'd be happy with beating grandma up the on ramp.



spacedout said:


> It is true its slow to heat, but it sure does warm faster if you remote start for a few minutes before you drive off on the really cold days. I'm usually within earshot of the car, I just wait to leave until I drops off high idle(less than 2 minutes). shaves about the same off the engine warm up time(I have full heat 2miles sooner on the hwy).
> 
> However remote start is a godsend in the summer time, If I am parked in the sun I can start the car a minute before I get to it in the parking lot to pre-cool the car. One just has to set all temp controls before turning off the car to make sure the AC is on and fan on max for when you do remote start.
> 
> This really cools the drivers seat, normally even if the AC is on you are always getting into a car with a 110degree seat.


I don't have an issue in the mornings since I have a garage but getting into a car when the outside temperature is 118 really sucks!!

Anyone successfully and safely installed remote start on their manuals?



NickD said:


> One long needed accessory, and really don't know if the Cruze added this to the AT, is a temperature sensor that will ring loud bells and sound off alarms if the fluid temperature approached 270*F. Any AT designer will tell you this, but the bean counters won't listen.


I watch the temperature gauge often. I think driving a piece of **** car for 7 years scarred me for life. Lol



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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

NickD said:


> One long needed accessory, and really don't know if the Cruze added this to the AT, is a temperature sensor that will ring loud bells and sound off alarms if the fluid temperature approached 270*F. Any AT designer will tell you this, but the bean counters won't listen.


270? I start panicking at 230! Hit 270 and there's already some damage done.



spacedout said:


> I could never get the added gauges of the ScanguageII working in the cruze, but I had the transmission temp gauge working in my 2004 cavalier. took about an hour drive to even reach full operating temp(175degrees) and was pretty consistent only gaining about 5degrees in hills. I hope the cruze transmission cooling is as good as that car was.


I programmed a Trans fluid temp X gauge into my Scangauge which I use with the Excursion. Doesn't work with the Cruze though.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> One long needed accessory, and really don't know if the Cruze added this to the AT, is a temperature sensor that will ring loud bells and sound off alarms if the fluid temperature approached 270*F. Any AT designer will tell you this, but the bean counters won't listen.


Most automatics built in the last 15-20 years have a "limp mode" or some sort of over-temp protection built in. It stops slipping the torque converter until trans. fluid temp changes and usually locks it in a gear.

Having an ATF cooler helps too.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> I programmed a Trans fluid temp X gauge into my Scangauge which I use with the Excursion. Doesn't work with the Cruze though.


Watch the engine oil temps on the Cruze and see how high they get.

Then you know why you should use a good-quality synthetic...this engine beats the crap out of the oil


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Watch the engine oil temps on the Cruze and see how high they get.


What kind of oil temps are you seeing? The engine has a coolant fed oil cooler, but it uses HOT engine coolant to warm/cool the oil. Since the thermostat doesn't start to open until 221F, oil temps must be a healthy chunk higher than that. That's why I'm using Mobil1.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> What kind of oil temps are you seeing? The engine has a coolant fed oil cooler, but it uses HOT engine coolant to warm/cool the oil. Since the thermostat doesn't start to open until 221F, oil temps must be a healthy chunk higher than that. That's why I'm using Mobil1.


I've seen 240-260 sitting in traffic with AC running; about 235-240 running down the road at 65 mph.

Almost want to add an aux oil cooler...or -40 weight oil.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> I've seen 240-260 sitting in traffic with AC running; about 235-240 running down the road at 65 mph.
> 
> Almost want to add an aux oil cooler...or -40 weight oil.


The tune lowers it to 215 or 205 I think.. I can't remember. I think he said it helps with knock?!


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

That really isn't a high oil temp......you always want it to operate above 212f just to boil off the water vapors.
230 to 245....not really an issue.....but don't misread me......Full synthetics are my only choice regardless of induction.

Rob


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

ErikBEggs said:


> The tune lowers it to 215 or 205 I think.. I can't remember. I think he said it helps with knock?!


Those are coolant temps lowered by the tune...NOT oil temps. They're high for what I consider the Cruze to be (not a performance car like a 370z or 335i). 

Oil temps will be lowered slightly too through by the tune by the water-oil heat exchanger, unless you beat on it. I'm not sure how effective that is though. 

Yeah, only a full synthetic should be used on these cars to sustain those temps. Keep in mind that oil gets even hotter in the turbo bearings spinning at 50,000 RPM. 


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Mick said:


> Nice I'd like to see some videos if you have any. I would probably only track once a month or every other month to keep the abuse at a minimum.
> 
> The trifecta takes care of tuning the tranny right or do you mean something else?
> 
> ...


Mick, im tuned by Vermont tuning and im very satisfied.

As for videos, later this year, when i have a GoPro, i'll post plenty of vids !


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Aw man a go pro is a must if you're tracking. I'd lend you mine if you were closer.

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## Eugene_C (Mar 15, 2012)

Again, not to beat a dead horse but the diesel has a different, higher-end automatic. Might at least be worth a test drive.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

While waiting for my first oil change in my 2013 1.8 LS, I found a big three ring binder titled "2013 Chevrolet Product Portfolio." In the Cruze section, I found this information:

The LS Automatic code is 1SB, the 1LT code is 1SD, in the Eco it is 1SF, in the 2LT it is 1SH and in the LTZ it is 1SJ. Above the table where I found this information, the heading is: (MH9) 6-Speed Automatic Transmission, Electronically Controlled with Overdrive - _Standard on LS Automatic 1SB.


_Is there actually any differences between these transmissions? In other words, is the top of the line LTZ Automatic (1SJ) a "better" Automatic than in the lowly LS with it's 1SB or is this just marketing hype???


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## 2013LT (Jul 3, 2013)

I have the 6M on the ECO and I do love it. The gearing is kind of funny but it definitely does what it's supposed to (economical). I did test drive the automatic before I bought the manual because they had to source a manual out for me. I have to say that I thought the automatic drove great (and I'm a huge manual fan, have been my whole life). I'd definitely consider an automatic if they weren't made in manual but I really like the control I get with a manual transmission. Whomever said replacing the clutch at 30000 miles doesn't know how to drive a manual. My civic has 140000 miles and the original clutch is still in the car.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

Automatic transmission on these cars sucks. The two tuners on the market fix their shifting issues though. Now, my car drives fantastically. I would never drive a manual out of preference. I tried learning and I just don't see it being worth it with all the traffic everywhere. Plus, way too many lights in my city. Driving should be relaxing!


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## djmtz1 (Jul 15, 2013)

forgive me if im wrong but my auto LT 2012 has both manual and auto trans? isnt that the same thing as having both?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

djmtz1 said:


> forgive me if im wrong but my auto LT 2012 has both manual and auto trans? isnt that the same thing as having both?


Not in the slightest. A "manumatic" is absolutely nothing like driving a real stick-shift.


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## 2013LT (Jul 3, 2013)

ErikBEggs said:


> Automatic transmission on these cars sucks. The two tuners on the market fix their shifting issues though. Now, my car drives fantastically. I would never drive a manual out of preference. I tried learning and I just don't see it being worth it with all the traffic everywhere. Plus, way too many lights in my city. Driving should be relaxing!


I can't disagree with you that it is a hassle in the city at times. I've been driving standard for about 10 years and I no longer even think about shifting. It just happens as a natural reaction when necessary lol. The only time I notice is when I'm driving with ice cream in my hand and my kid hands me theirs. 2 ice creams + manual transmission = wtfdoido?


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## McLoki (Apr 28, 2013)

custer3_5 said:


> I wanted the mt. But the wife can't drive a stick. I have tried on many occasions to teach her and have failed. So I knew when we went looking for a car that I would get stuck with an at. I will admit that a mt is more fun to drive but the at can be very convenient.


Exactly this. I would like the manual for the 2-3mpg benefit they seem to get over the AT, but I am pretty happy with the MPG I am getting and for a mostly utilitarian vehicle, the AT seems to work well. I have also not had issues with my 2012 tranny but it does downshift rather abruptly at times. 

Michael


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