# SQ audio build \ lessons learned



## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

After reading through all the posts for the SQ how to  and v2, I am looking at doing a similar build in my 2012 cruze. 

First I would like to thank XtremeRevolution for putting those threads together. I feel like I have learned more about audio reproduction in the past week than I have in the past 20 years.


The point of this thread is two fold. First to discuss my build plan and get tips and suggestions while being on a fairly tight budget. Second to get and document any lessons learned from those that have installed a similar build in their cars. 

My Build plan:

Tweeters: Vifa ( now peerless ) 

Woofers: Silver Flute

Sub: JBL P1022 (because I already own it)

Amps:
JBL GT5-A604 60Wx4 @4ohm (own)
Power Acoustik BAMF2000/1d 600Wx1 @4ohm (own)

miniDSP


Deadening: 
CLD,CCF,MLV from sounddeadeningshowdown


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

For anyone who has installed a SQ system please answer the list of questions below.


Speakers (woofer/tweeter): 
Are you running a 2.1 (front speakers only w/sub) or 4.1 (front and rear speakers w/sub) 
What did you go with?
Did you change them? If you did, what did you change them to and why.
How long have you been using these speakers in your SQ system?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Amps:
What did you go with?
what are the power ratings?
If you could make changes what would they be?


Sub:
What kind?
Sealed or ported or other style box?
If you could make changes what would they be?

Deadening:
which brand? SDS, Dynamat..etc.
How much did you use?
Do you think you should have used more or less than you did?

Install:
How did you route wires?
Where did you install your amps and miniDSP?
Is there anything you would have done differently?
Were there any other parts you found you needed when installing this audio system?



I realize this is a bit lengthy however, I believe this is a good start to allow others to learn from those that have already walked down this path.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

With the Silver flutes unavailable till next month I have decided to try and see if I understand the lessons XR and the SQ v1 and v2 pages have taught me by looking at other speakers and tweeters that are available. One tweeter that caught my eye was the Dayton Audio ND20FB-4. From the design it looks like it would be easy to fit with a little hot glue. Not sure how accurate the FR graph is but if true could be good for off-axis setups.


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## MB2014LT2 (Feb 23, 2015)

I run a front only set up with mids in the doors and heavy deadening...tweets on the sails.....with entire trunk deadening....and ensolite foam over the entire area.....I run Pioneer STAGE 4 speakers and LOVE it.,,,!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> For anyone who has installed a SQ system please answer the list of questions below.
> 
> 
> Speakers (woofer/tweeter):
> ...


Rear speakers destroy the front sound stage. You have sound firing toward the floor right behind you; woefully unnatural and useless. You never miss them once they're disconnected. 

I've had the Silver Flutes in the front doors since I wrote those articles. They haven't let me down and continually impress people. I wouldn't change them out. 

Boston Acoustics GT475 for the front stage (way overpowered, but got it cheap), and Boston Acoutics GT2300 for the subs (because dual 18s in an IB). 

Subs are two 18" Peavey "Black Widow" Low rider subs in an infinite baffle install. Search for my thread on that in a thread titled "cone area is king." It's not a beginner's install though. 

I used SoundDeadenerShowdown in everything, of course. 

Only thing I would have done differently with the wires is run higher quality RCAs. I have a new set that need to go in, just haven't had the time. Don't cheap out on cables. Everything else, I'm happy with. 

The amps are in the trunk behind the subs (see pictures) and the miniDSP is somewhere in the dash hidden away. 

You're not too far, you should just drive down here to hear it for yourself. Let me know if there are questions I missed that you wanted answered. 



Nightmistx22 said:


> With the Silver flutes unavailable till next month I have decided to try and see if I understand the lessons XR and the SQ v1 and v2 pages have taught me by looking at other speakers and tweeters that are available. One tweeter that caught my eye was the Dayton Audio ND20FB-4. From the design it looks like it would be easy to fit with a little hot glue. Not sure how accurate the FR graph is but if true could be good for off-axis setups.


Easy fit is one thing, but the idea behind getting the most out of a 2-way front sound stage is to get a tweeter that can cross as low as possible. The Vifa does the best job I know of in that price point, all things considered, but the ND20FA and ND20FB tweeters do not do well. Those need to be crossed at closer to 3,500hz. They would not be a good match for the Silver Flutes. About all they're good for here is ease of install. Go with the Seas Prestige tweeters I listed in the mid range kit instead.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Rear speakers destroy the front sound stage. You have sound firing toward the floor right behind you; woefully unnatural and useless. You never miss them once they're disconnected.


I am planning on just running the front, as it is just me in the car 90% of the time. I had asked that just to see if there was anyone that ran with the rear speakers as well. 



XtremeRevolution said:


> I've had the Silver Flutes in the front doors since I wrote those articles. They haven't let me down and continually impress people. I wouldn't change them out.


Briefly looking around I couldn't find anything that would match the Silver Flutes, unfortunately they wont be back in stock till mid or late may.... good things come to those who wait I guess.




XtremeRevolution said:


> Only thing I would have done differently with the wires is run higher quality RCAs. I have a new set that need to go in, just haven't had the time. Don't cheap out on cables. Everything else, I'm happy with.


Two things I will not compromise on are the cabling (power and audio) and the deadening. Most of my "savings" in this build will be from using components I have on hand. Later this year I should have some expendable cash to upgrade amps and possibly the sub if i'm not happy with them.



XtremeRevolution said:


> The amps are in the trunk behind the subs (see pictures) and the miniDSP is somewhere in the dash hidden away.


Ah finally some pics of your dual 18" IB setup haven't finished reading the cone area thread. My plan right now is to mount the JBL 4ch on the rear deck and the mono on the passenger side like you had in some of the earlier pictures. Would you happen to have some pic of the miniDSP mounting? I am planning on getting the diy version and mount it near the 4ch amp as to minimize the number of rcas I run through my car and for easier access to tune the DSP should I feel an itch to do so. 




XtremeRevolution said:


> You're not too far, you should just drive down here to hear it for yourself. Let me know if there are questions I missed that you wanted answered.


Would love to but I don't know if I will have any time to get out there. I think this is a good start for questions answered. I hope others that did this type of build jump on and provide their insight as well. 





XtremeRevolution said:


> Easy fit is one thing, but the idea behind getting the most out of a 2-way front sound stage is to get a tweeter that can cross as low as possible. The Vifa does the best job I know of in that price point, all things considered, but the ND20FA and ND20FB tweeters do not do well. Those need to be crossed at closer to 3,500hz. They would not be a good match for the Silver Flutes. About all they're good for here is ease of install. Go with the Seas Prestige tweeters I listed in the mid range kit instead.


I will probably go with the vifa (now peerless) as i can't justify the seas at this time. That is unless their performance is truly worth the extra $60 for a pair. But on paper they seem to have a similar stats and off-axis response.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

MB2014LT2 said:


> I run a front only set up with mids in the doors and heavy deadening...tweets on the sails.....with entire trunk deadening....and ensolite foam over the entire area.....I run Pioneer STAGE 4 speakers and LOVE it.,,,!


MB,

Thank you for your reply, sounds like you really went to town on the deadening. 

Are you running those Stage 4s Active or with the included passive crossover?


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Just ordered a pair of Vifa BC25SC06-04 tweeters. They are "on sale" now for $10.30 each.


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## MB2014LT2 (Feb 23, 2015)

Nightmistx22 said:


> MB,
> 
> Thank you for your reply, sounds like you really went to town on the deadening.
> 
> Are you running those Stage 4s Active or with the included passive crossover?


Night, I am currently running my set up active through a Pioneer 800PRS head unit... front mid/highs and my stage 4 subs.... I have lots of control from the driver seat...and no experience with any kind of external DSP processor's . MY plans for the near future are to swap out the 800 and install Stage 4 P99RS deck, and add the TS-S062PRS mid into the mix.....and swap out my amps for more power.....AND add more sound deadening !!!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

MB2014LT2 said:


> Night, I am currently running my set up active through a Pioneer 800PRS head unit... front mid/highs and my stage 4 subs.... I have lots of control from the driver seat...and no experience with any kind of external DSP processor's . MY plans for the near future are to swap out the 800 and install Stage 4 P99RS deck, and add the TS-S062PRS mid into the mix.....and swap out my amps for more power.....AND add more sound deadening !!!


You should really look into the miniDSP. Does what a high end deck does for a fraction of the cost. 36 bands of parametric eq, 3 crossover types at up to 48db/octave slopes, time alignment, custom programmable filters, shelf filters, and more I'm forgetting. The 2-way miniDSP is $100. 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> I am planning on just running the front, as it is just me in the car 90% of the time. I had asked that just to see if there was anyone that ran with the rear speakers as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The miniDSP is just hidden behind the panel you can pull off to the center console from the passenger side. No pictures. 

The Seas is truly a better speaker and worth the cost. They have more excursion and a lower resonant frequency which helps them cross lower. I'd say a solid 300-400hz lower, which is a lot. I think I had them crossed at 1900hz in another car. In addition, the vifas have a bit of harshness around 3-4k that you have to EQ out (which I did), but they aren't as smooth as the Seas tweeters. 

They're excellent for what they are and handily beat tweeters and that cost 10x what they do with car audio labels. The Seas are just one step above them. 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

MB2014LT2 said:


> Night, I am currently running my set up active through a Pioneer 800PRS head unit... front mid/highs and my stage 4 subs.... I have lots of control from the driver seat...and no experience with any kind of external DSP processor's . MY plans for the near future are to swap out the 800 and install Stage 4 P99RS deck, and add the TS-S062PRS mid into the mix.....and swap out my amps for more power.....AND add more sound deadening !!!



Wow, that P99RS unit is way out of my price range. I would rather try and learn something new, like using an external DSP such as the miniDSP, and save several hundred. Looks nice though.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The miniDSP is just hidden behind the panel you can pull off to the center console from the passenger side. No pictures.
> 
> The Seas is truly a better speaker and worth the cost. They have more excursion and a lower resonant frequency which helps them cross lower. I'd say a solid 300-400hz lower, which is a lot. I think I had them crossed at 1900hz in another car. In addition, the vifas have a bit of harshness around 3-4k that you have to EQ out (which I did), but they aren't as smooth as the Seas tweeters.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.... I'll have to keep that in mind when I do my wife's car. May swap the vifa and get me the seas. 

As you may have seen I already orded a pair of the vifas. $26 shipped made it even harder to justify the seas. 


Did you get the diy or the enclosed version of the miniDSP? I'm planning on getting the diy version and mount it near my 4ch amp on the rear deck.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I got the DIY version to save a few bucks but both will work just the same. Don't forget the minidc. 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XR, 

Are you still offering those door baffles?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> XR,
> 
> Are you still offering those door baffles?


I haven't done much audio work in the last year, but I'm planning on getting a few sets made in the next month or so.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Put me down for a pair for the silver flutes I will be ordering when they come back in stock. If you find you don't have the time could you please send me the dimensions for the baffles and a list of the supporting hardware. Thanks.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

After re-reading v1 and v2 there seems to be a little confusion.. the vifa/silver flute combo seems marketed as the high value "budget" option. where they Dayton and seas is marketed as more the mid level better sq option on the v2 thread. However, after reading through the v1 thread I got the impression that the silver flutes perform better than the daytons. I may have missed something because it was a lot of info to sort through.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> After re-reading v1 and v2 there seems to be a little confusion.. the vifa/silver flute combo seems marketed as the high value "budget" option. where they Dayton and seas is marketed as more the mid level better sq option on the v2 thread. However, after reading through the v1 thread I got the impression that the silver flutes perform better than the daytons. I may have missed something because it was a lot of info to sort through.


In the V1 thread, I tried the Dayton DA-series drivers. The Silver Flutes were indeed better than the DA-series drivers. In the V2 thread, I discussed the Dayton RS-series drivers. Two totally different drivers. the RS-series drivers are better than the Silver Flutes if you have a tweeter that can cross low enough, but they're also notably more expensive.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> In the V1 thread, I tried the Dayton DA-series drivers. The Silver Flutes were indeed better than the DA-series drivers. In the V2 thread, I discussed the Dayton RS-series drivers. Two totally different drivers. the RS-series drivers are better than the Silver Flutes if you have a tweeter that can cross low enough, but they're also notably more expensive.


Ah, didn't pick up on the different models. Thank you for clarifying.

I have a feeling I will be very satisfied with the Silver Flute Vifa combo... once I get it all installed. Looking like a late may/ early june project at this time.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XR,

Planning out this build I will have a little extra money I feel would be best served putting my sub in a better box. It currently sits in a .7 cu/ft custom fiberglass box for the RX8 I used to own. If you could, please model out a box so I could get the best Sq out of my JBL P1022.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Just ordered the miniDSP 2x4 and downloaded the 2way advanced software for it. It's a pretty intuitive piece of software.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Sweet. Just got my Vifa (Peerless) tweeters in today. Looks like I might need to cut away some material from the front to get them in the stock tweeter location. Is that what everyone else did that installed these tweeters?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Sweet. Just got my Vifa (Peerless) tweeters in today. Looks like I might need to cut away some material from the front to get them in the stock tweeter location. Is that what everyone else did that installed these tweeters?
> 
> View attachment 227986
> View attachment 227994


Yep, just file away that faceplate till it fits just right. Shouldn't take too long at all. Depth won't be an issue. 

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Anyone have an idea if and where the stock radio starts to clip? With the stock speakers in I usually keep it below 30. 22-25 is my norm. Loud enough to put life back into the sound but not loud enough to hurt my ears.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Just got my miniDSP in today. It's smaller than I expected. Just need to order my sound deadening and wait for those 6.5" Silver Flutes to come back in stock then I can get this build underway.

In other news I decided I want to give a shot at some DIY home speakers... I'm thinking the Orient Express.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Just got my miniDSP in today. It's smaller than I expected. Just need to order my sound deadening and wait for those 6.5" Silver Flutes to come back in stock then I can get this build underway.
> 
> In other news I decided I want to give a shot at some DIY home speakers... I'm thinking the Orient Express.


I've built Paul's Overnight Sensations MTM. Great speaker, I use them for blasting music in the garage and my wife complains of how loud it is...in the living room. I don't think you can go wrong with any of Paul's designs.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

I'm debating between the OS MTM or the OE... I'm leaning towards the OE because 1) I am really liking those darn silver flutes. 2) my onkyo HTIAB is only 8ohm stable. 

Really want to build me a pair of those Statement Monitors but I feel I should get my feet wet with something like the OS MTM or OE first.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> I'm debating between the OS MTM or the OE... I'm leaning towards the OE because 1) I am really liking those darn silver flutes. 2) my onkyo HTIAB is only 8ohm stable.
> 
> Really want to build me a pair of those Statement Monitors but I feel I should get my feet wet with something like the OS MTM or OE first.


Yeah, the statement monitors are not a beginner's design, nor are they cheap to build. I regret that I have them stored under the desk in my home office. With a 3.5 and a 1.5 year old running around, I couldn't risk them sticking something through the tweeter and having to blow $250 on a new pair (they only sell them in pairs). Not kid friendly speakers, at least not until I get some covers on the front.

For home use, I REALLY like the TangBand W5-704D. It is one of the smoothest drivers I've ever heard. I designed a pair of TMs with it, using another Vifa tweeter with a large faceplate. They're incredibly smooth overall with very low listening fatigue.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Yeah, the statement monitors are not a beginner's design, nor are they cheap to build. I regret that I have them stored under the desk in my home office. With a 3.5 and a 1.5 year old running around, I couldn't risk them sticking something through the tweeter and having to blow $250 on a new pair (they only sell them in pairs). Not kid friendly speakers, at least not until I get some covers on the front.
> 
> For home use, I REALLY like the TangBand W5-704D. It is one of the smoothest drivers I've ever heard. I designed a pair of TMs with it, using another Vifa tweeter with a large faceplate. They're incredibly smooth overall with very low listening fatigue.


Hmmm.. going to need to look up that TB driver.
I have a 5, 3 year and 7 month old to deal with. They already pushed in the domes on the tweeters of my onkyo 2way speakers. 

I keep going back and forth on the OS and OE... I was thinking on possibly using the Vifa BC25SC in place of the AC25SG that is discontinued. But to do it properly I would need to invest in something like the umik-1 so I could work up a new crossover for that tweeter. 

Think I'll just get an OS MTM kit for my first go.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Let me know if you want to build the ones I designed and I can get you the schematics. The TB driver is great as the dome isn't easy to push in. 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Sure, I'll look them over. Not sure when I will be able to get around to building any of these DIY speakers... 

What program do you use to model out a sub box? I remember seeing it another thread but I cant't seem to remember where.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmist, 

It sounds like we are pretty much working on the same project. I am trying to keep costs down though so I may end up using a few components I already own instead of buying new. My wife is pretty happy with her new car. She wants a better sounding stereo but if I go nuts with the budget all that happiness will surely turn into rage. LOL

I just ordered the miniDSP stuff and the VIFA tweeters a few minutes ago. Hopefully those Silver Flutes come in stock when they say they are.

Good luck with your build!


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

JerryGash said:


> Nightmist,
> 
> It sounds like we are pretty much working on the same project. I am trying to keep costs down though so I may end up using a few components I already own instead of buying new. My wife is pretty happy with her new car. She wants a better sounding stereo but if I go nuts with the budget all that happiness will surely turn into rage. LOL
> 
> ...



Jerry,

Glad to hear your on a similar mission. I think this setup will sound awesome once complete. Good things come to those who wait... or so I'm told.

I just sent the SDS crew an email to see how much material for sound deadening they recommend. I plan on doing just the front doors with CCF and MLV and sticking CLD tiles throughout the doors and trunk to keep costs down. As soon as I get a reply I'll post it here. 

Most of my "savings" with this build is from reusing my amps and sub from my previous setup. So far I have spent about $150 on this build and should come in around $400 when all said and done.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Jerry,
> 
> Glad to hear your on a similar mission. I think this setup will sound awesome once complete. Good things come to those who wait... or so I'm told.
> 
> ...


Definitely let me know, that's exactly what I was wanting to do.

What are your plans for speaker ring adapters? I know I've seen XR mention maybe busting a few sets out but if not are there any alternatives? 

I don't own a router but I have a friend who has a pretty slick woodworking shop that has a pretty sweet router table setup. If I had the dimensions I'll bet I could get a few pumped out with some trial and error.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Jerry,

I was hoping to get a set from XR if he is making them. The only alternatives I am currently aware of are some crappy plastic ones by metra or scosche. 

Just got an email from Don at SDS. Here is what he is recommending.

37 CLD Tiles™ @ 2.25 = $83.25
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope @ 9.75 = 9.75
35 linear inches MLV @ .93 = 32.55
2 sheets 1/8" CCF @ 16.35 = 32.70
5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides @ 1.63 = 8.15
1 8 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement @ 9.50 = 9.50

Sub Total: $175.90

XR,

Please let us know if you would make us some baffles or if not post a schematic of them so we could make them(or have them made).


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I'll be able to make a batch toward the end of this month or early next. 

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'll be able to make a batch toward the end of this month or early next.
> 
> Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


Your the man! Definitely interested in a set!

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Jerry,
> 
> I was hoping to get a set from XR if he is making them. The only alternatives I am currently aware of are some crappy plastic ones by metra or scosche.
> 
> ...


That's not so bad. I've never messed with sound deadening or dampening before but after I did the last install in my Jeep Grand Cherokee I quickly realized I completely dropped the ball by not doing it. Between all the rattling and road noise adding aftermarket speakers turned out to be a complete waste of money and effort.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

I have never used any sound deadening/ vibration dampening before either, and for me it's the most expensive part of my build. But from what I have read it is well worth the investment.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

So... my impatience is getting the better of me and I am taking a serious look at the Dayton RS-180. However on paper it would appear that the Silver Flute would be worth waiting for it is not only cheaper but has a stronger motor(BL: SF 7.31 vs RS 4.71) nearly equal cone mass (SF 17.4g RS 17.8g) and lower qts (SF 0.24 vs RS 0.46) which makes me think the Silver Flute would be better at handling transients all else being equal. The RS-180P (paper cone) brings things a little closer.

Please feel free to educate me if I am off base here.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> So... my impatience is getting the better of me and I am taking a serious look at the Dayton RS-180. However on paper it would appear that the Silver Flute would be worth waiting for it is not only cheaper but has a stronger motor(BL: SF 7.31 vs RS 4.71) nearly equal cone mass (SF 17.4g RS 17.8g) and lower qts (SF 0.24 vs RS 0.46) which makes me think the Silver Flute would be better at handling transients all else being equal. The RS-180P (paper cone) brings things a little closer.
> 
> Please feel free to educate me if I am off base here.


Even if you get the Daytons your going to need ring adapters. I'm a total novice to SQ builds but those plastic adapters don't look like anything I would want to use. I am going to try and remain patient and wait for the Silver Flutes to come back in stock and XR to offer some mdf rings for sale.

Usually, with projects like these I'm in a total rush to get things installed so I can hear the finished project. For some reason with this project I am more than happy to keep reading and learning as I wait for components to become available.

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Jerry,

After looking at the Daytons I feel they just arn't worth nearly doubling the amount spent on woofers. I will wait for the Silver Flutes and bide my time by re reading XR's threads. Want to make sure I'm not missing anything.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Jerry,
> 
> After looking at the Daytons I feel they just arn't worth nearly doubling the amount spent on woofers. I will wait for the Silver Flutes and bide my time by re reading XR's threads. Want to make sure I'm not missing anything.


Save your money for the dual 18's. Lol

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

I'll be saving my pennies for a while on that one... I have several expensive hobbies(mostly computer related not gaming).... and thanks to XR a new one building my own home speakers. 

I do plan to upgrade my sub in the near future with something more flush mounted. I am liking the driver side pocket location so I can minimize loss of trunk space but still get solid bass.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Just stick with the Silver Flutes and wait till they're back in stock. They're well worth it.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Just stick with the Silver Flutes and wait till they're back in stock. They're well worth it.



That's the plan as I really can't justify spending that much more for the RS-180 for what I can see on paper would be a similar performing product. I know they are a highly rated woofer but for this application the price to performance of the Silver Flute just can't be beat.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> I'll be saving my pennies for a while on that one... I have several expensive hobbies(mostly computer related not gaming).... and thanks to XR a new one building my own home speakers.
> 
> I do plan to upgrade my sub in the near future with something more flush mounted. I am liking the driver side pocket location so I can minimize loss of trunk space but still get solid bass.


I hear ya on expensive hobbies. I'd love to get into building home speakers but I just don't have the right house for that. I've actually moved my home theater outdoors.

200" inflatable screen 
3 JBL 515xt's
2 Cerwin Vega 18" folded horns
2 8" 2 way for rears
Emotiva UMC preamp
Optoma TH1060P 4500 lumen projector
Running around 4500 watts of 5.1 surround

Probably going to be buying another minidsp for this setup so I can properly crossover my subs. 

Sorry for the hijack.









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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

That's really awesome. Neighborhood movie nights. 

Are you saying a mini-dsp for your outdoor h/t or for your cruze? I recall a few posts on one of XR threads talking about a second mini-dsp for sub use in the cruze and it was determined unnecessary as most amps do a good enough job for low pass for this type of system. XR please feel free to correct me if im off base here.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> That's really awesome. Neighborhood movie nights.
> 
> Are you saying a mini-dsp for your outdoor h/t or for your cruze? I recall a few posts on one of XR threads talking about a second mini-dsp for sub use in the cruze and it was determined unnecessary as most amps do a good enough job for low pass for this type of system. XR please feel free to correct me if im off base here.


Sorry, yes for the outdoor theater subs. I'm basically just wanting to add a HPF to protect them from frequency's lower than they can handle. 

Anyway, back to car audio....

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

This applies more to anything dealing with amps but I found it to be very useful as I never really messed with it before. 

Gain on the amp is a lot more important than I thought. And here I have been treating it as a +11 knob. You may already have more respect for the gain dial than I do and know about this... still a good read and anything worth reading once is worth reading a second or third time.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> This applies more to anything dealing with amps but I found it to be very useful as I never really messed with it before.
> 
> Gain on the amp is a lot more important than I thought. And here I have been treating it as a +11 knob. You may already have more respect for the gain dial than I do and know about this... still a good read and anything worth reading once is worth reading a second or third time.



Haha! Yeah I used to think that about the gain level too until a few years ago. Gain overlap is a new concept to me though. 

I actually have an old oscilloscope laying around I've been wanting to use for something besides collecting dust.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

JerryGash said:


> Haha! Yeah I used to think that about the gain level too until a few years ago. Gain overlap is a new concept to me though.
> 
> I actually have an old oscilloscope laying around I've been wanting to use for something besides collecting dust.



New use for your old toy. You can really dial in your amps gain to get the most spl while minimizing distortion. 

Right now I am trying to figure out if I want to wire my JBL 1022 sub to present a 4 ohm or 1 ohm load to my BAMF2000/1D mono-block.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Got an email from SDS. My order has shipped. This is by far the most expensive part of my build. 

Cost so far...

mini DSP + Isolater: $122
Vifa BC25SC06 tweeter : $27
KnuKoncept Kables + fused distribution box: $68
SDS Sound deadening : $234

Total: $451

Expected remaining costs:

Silver Flute Woofers: $75
XRs Speaker Baffles: $65?

Final expected project total: $591


Lessons learned (thus far):
1) Don't forget to calculate shipping costs.
2) Not all equipment can be reused. In my case 8+ year old amp power wires with substantial corrosion. 

I think this weekend I will start mounting amps and running wires. Once I get my Silver Flutes and the Baffles I will do the rest of the install.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Got an email from SDS. My order has shipped. This is by far the most expensive part of my build.
> 
> Cost so far...
> 
> ...


It's worth noting, the first install I put in the Cruze used two coustic power logic amps for the front stage. They were made in 1992, which at the time made them 20 years old. They sounded great.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It's worth noting, the first install I put in the Cruze used two coustic power logic amps for the front stage. They were made in 1992, which at the time made them 20 years old. They sounded great.



My amps are in great condition. The wires to power them... not so much...

I presume you will have a bit of time after the Lordstown meet to make some baffles. Can't wait to see and hear this in my own car.


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## MB2014LT2 (Feb 23, 2015)

Nightmist and Jerry....where are you guys located?...it seems to me the both of you are headed towards audio bliss and I would love to be able to compare our systems someday if it is at all possible. I have been silently following this thread from the start and can't wait for the finish!


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

MB2014LT2 said:


> Nightmist and Jerry....where are you guys located?...it seems to me the both of you are headed towards audio bliss and I would love to be able to compare our systems someday if it is at all possible. I have been silently following this thread from the start and can't wait for the finish!


I'm in NE Iowa in between the corn field and the hog barn.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

MB2014LT2 said:


> Nightmist and Jerry....where are you guys located?...it seems to me the both of you are headed towards audio bliss and I would love to be able to compare our systems someday if it is at all possible. I have been silently following this thread from the start and can't wait for the finish!


I am in Omaha, Nebraska. 

MB, are you saying you have done this type of install? If so could you please answer my questionnaire(post #2)... would love you get your insight and any lessons learned from it.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Unfortunately I was not able to do anything this past weekend. However, my SDS shipment should be coming in tomorrow . 

I have been debating for a little while on whether or not I want to put together a How-To thread for the install itself. I have seen a few members start a thread for this type of build but they seem to not follow through with posting the entire install.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Unfortunately I was not able to do anything this past weekend. However, my SDS shipment should be coming in tomorrow .
> 
> I have been debating for a little while on whether or not I want to put together a How-To thread for the install itself. I have seen a few members start a thread for this type of build but they seem to not follow through with posting the entire install.


You should definitely do a "how-to thread"! That way I can just copy your build and know what I'm getting myself into. Lol

Planning on ordering one of XR's big 3 upgrade kits? I want to but I've already spent this week's budget on weathertech floor liners.

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Jerry,

I am still debating on that getting that big 3 kit. I am leaning towards yes but I need to recalculate my budget to see if I can or not. 

I'll put together that how-to as I do my install. This weekend I hope to get most of the install done so that all I will be left is the baffles and woofers.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Just called Madisound... They are saying the 6.5" silver flute woofers wont be in for another 2 weeks ( aka Early June). *sigh*.....


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Just called Madisound... They are saying the 6.5" silver flute woofers wont be in for another 2 weeks ( aka Early June). *sigh*.....


Guess that gives me plenty of time to get everything else done. I've been driving the Cruze back and forth to work over the last couple of days. It just floors me how bad the factory pioneer system sounds. It's like the opposite of enjoyable. I can't wait to get a decent sounding system in there but it looks like it's gonna be at least 2 more weeks. Lol

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

I have the base 4 speaker system. sometimes when listening to XM it sounds pretty decent..... sometimes... but most of the time it just sounds dull and lifeless. I need to crank it to more than 1/2 volume to get any semblance of life out of the sound.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Just out of curiosity where are are you planning on mounting your minidsp stuff? Are planning on putting it up front or in the rear near the amps? How are you planning on powering it? 

Are you planning on powering the pac LOC in order to utilize the remote turn on wire? If so, how are you powering that?

The reason I ask is I'm wanting to try and not cut into the factory wiring so I can easily revert everything back to stock when needed. 


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

I am planning on mounting the miniDSP on the rear deck with the amps. This way I only need to run 2 rca cables from the front to the back. 

Power for the miniDSP, I am planing on running a fused wire from the distro block to the miniDC.

I'm still not sure which route I'm going to go with for the remote wire. I'll have to take a closer look at the PAC LOC and see whats going on with that.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> I am planning on mounting the miniDSP on the rear deck with the amps. This way I only need to run 2 rca cables from the front to the back.
> 
> Power for the miniDSP, I am planing on running a fused wire from the distro block to the miniDC.
> 
> I'm still not sure which route I'm going to go with for the remote wire. I'll have to take a closer look at the PAC LOC and see whats going on with that.


That was my thinking as well. Not only would it take less RCA's it will much easier to hide in the rear with the amps opposed to trying to find room up front. Plus, it would be simple to just run a wire from the distro block like you mentioned.

Let me know what you find with the pac loc. Being I have the upgraded pioneer system I am tempted to not use it all all and just t-tap into the factory wiring already ran to the amp. That way I don't need RCA's or remote power ran all the way from the front.

I found the pinout for the amp on here so it should be possible. 




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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

That and if I wanted to tweak something on the DSP I dont have to tear up or modify my dash to get to it. 

Do you know if the wires from the radio to the amp are line level or rca? Im thinking line level which means your still going to need a LOC to connect to the miniDSP. I would deff use the remote wire from the pioneer amp as it should already be back there.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

*sigh*......


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Send them an e-mail and get another estimate on when they should arrive.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> View attachment 231674
> 
> 
> 
> *sigh*......


Yeah that sucks. Kinda figured that was going to happen. 

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Just got off the phone with Madisound. They said the Silver Flute Woofers just left china and should be available around the 13th of June. They will email me when they do come in.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Just got off the phone with Madisound. They said the Silver Flute Woofers just left china and should be available around the 13 of June. They will email me when they do come in.


Good, at least they're in transit. Not much longer now.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Just got off the phone with Madisound. They said the Silver Flute Woofers just left china and should be available around the 13th of June. They will email me when they do come in.



Sweet!


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Silver Flute UPDATE:

Email from Madisound this morning says they are expecting them in on Wed 21 June. Hope to have them in my car about 2 weeks after that. 

In other news:

I am giving XR's dual 18" IB sub setup some serious consideration. Soo much cone area for so little trunk space loss. 
That or one of billseast fiberglass boxes with a good sq sub. 
I listen to just about everything so i'm not sure if the IB is a good all around solution or more tailored to pre 1990s stuff. 


Also, I think I will get the PAC installed, run my power and ground wires and mount my amps / mini dsp this weekend.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Silver Flute UPDATE:
> 
> Email from Madisound this morning says they are expecting them in on Wed 21 June. Hope to have them in my car about 2 weeks after that.
> 
> ...


Great news on the Silver Flutes!

Pre 1990's stuff? Lol

My knowledge on this subject is fairly limited but here's my take on it.

While I don't think an IB setup is the most ideal subwoofer configuration for EDM or dubstuff, I don't really see how you can go wrong. I choose this configuration because I wanted to be able to hear actual music coming from the subwoofers and not audio that has been "colored" by a box or port. 

The other reason is space savings, my wife will still be able to fill the trunk with groceries even with "King Kong" hiding behind the rear seats.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but an IB setup isn't really much different than using a sealed but somewhat leaky enclosure which is the trunk. Your basically isolating the front waves from the back waves to avoid cancellation issues. 

If you truly want sound quality and not just something that is rattling the crap out of your trunk then this seems like a very good solution. 

I'll let you know my impressions in a couple weeks.



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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Emailed Madisound for an update on the Silver Flutes. No reply as of yet. Also, no update on the website either.

Began running my amp power and ground wires, installed the PAC gm44 and ran my RCAs and remote wires, as well as mocking up how to mount my amps and miniDSP on the rear deck. That darn bar in the center really complicates things. The plan is to use some 3/4" MDF cut into 2" x8" strips that will go into the rear deck and hang low enough so when I mount the amp to the MDF that center bar will run right over the amp without any clearance issues.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Emailed Madisound for an update on the Silver Flutes. No reply as of yet. Also, no update on the website either.
> 
> Began running my amp power and ground wires, installed the PAC gm44 and ran my RCAs and remote wires, as well as mocking up how to mount my amps and miniDSP on the rear deck. That darn bar in the center really complicates things. The plan is to use some 3/4" MDF cut into 2" x8" strips that will go into the rear deck and hang low enough so when I mount the amp to the MDF that center bar will run right over the amp without any clearance issues.


Awesome! Your farther than me. Mind if I ask how you wired your PAC LOC? Just wondering if you wired the power and ground or just plugged it in unpowered. I don't want to "splice" into any factory wiring so I may just leave mine unpowered and just use an "add a circuit" device as the remote power for the amplifiers.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

JerryGash said:


> Awesome! Your farther than me. Mind if I ask how you wired your PAC LOC? Just wondering if you wired the power and ground or just plugged it in unpowered. I don't want to "splice" into any factory wiring so I may just leave mine unpowered and just use an "add a circuit" device as the remote power for the amplifiers.



I did it just how you are planning. Just plugged the PAC in and used an add a circuit for the remote wire. I have the main body of the LOC sitting in a hole under the right center air vent and the rca wires run nicely through a hole across the passenger side just above the glove box. It is a tight fit squeezing that PAC LOC into a place where it can do its job and be able to button everything back up.


Last night I made one of my biggest mistakes with my sub amp. Once I got it mounted and got everything connected whet to test it out and got nothing... Long story short... I connected the power and ground wires backwards... luckily the only thing to hurt was the internal fuses on the amp and once I got everything sorted it works very well. 

Need to thank XR for the idea of using the front to rear fade for sub vol control. One less wire to run through the car.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Silver Flutes are BACK. Website will be updated either today or Monday. I just called them and placed my order


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Silver Flutes are BACK. Website will be updated either today or Monday. I just called them and placed my order


Awesome! I'm planning on getting the baffles knocked out this weekend.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> Silver Flutes are BACK. Website will be updated either today or Monday. I just called them and placed my order


Just gonna buy a few extra. Lol









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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

NOO Don't buy them all up... oh wait I just got an email with a tracking number... looks like I should have them in hand by the end of next week


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Progress Update:



























Not quite as awesome looking as I had imagined in my mind.... but right now I will take function over form. 

Remaining tasks:

Sound deadening on the front doors.
mount tweeters 
run speaker wire to tweeter and woofers
mount woofers ( once I get them and the baffles ) 
install XRs tune on miniDSP. 
tune subwoofer to blend with new system. 


Anyone know of some good test tracks and specific things I should listen for to help my tuning?


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Your making good progress. 

I wrestled my LOC in today. I also ran speaker wires and RCA's on passenger side and ran my remote power wire on the driver side. Getting the trim panels back on correctly with all that extra cable under it is a daunting task. 





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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

I have my remote wire and amp power wires running on the drivers side, RCAs on passenger side. 
I think I will just run the speaker wires up the respective side for each set. 
In my previous car, which had all the current componets - minidsp, I had all the wires running on the passenger size and no feedback. 
As long as you have a good ground feedback shouldn't be an issue.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Just got an email saying my Silver Flutes have been delivered.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmist, what fuse spot did you use for your remote turn on?

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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

JerryGash said:


> Nightmist, what fuse spot did you use for your remote turn on?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk



There are two power outlet spots on fuse box, 7-8 i think, one is for the rear 12v power outlet for the rear passengers and the other is for the front 12v outlet. I used one of those two using the add-a-fuse method.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Here's a picture of what I did. Turns out I put in slot 6 which is for the front 12v power outlet. 

I have the remote wire running from the add-a-fuse to my miniDC remote in then use the remote out of the miniDC for the amps remotes.


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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Nightmistx22 said:


> There are two power outlet spots on fuse box, 7-8 i think, one is for the rear 12v power outlet for the rear passengers and the other is for the front 12v outlet. I used one of those two using the add-a-fuse method.


I think I may have ordered the wrong add a fuse. Mine doesn't fit. It's like the spades for the fuses aren't anywhere near long enough.

Going to pick up a different one tomorrow.

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## JerryGash (May 5, 2017)

Yeah. I just didn't get the right kind. This thing is weird.
















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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Hmmm. Is that ATR or ATC-L? Im guessing ATC-L. I know a few of my auto parts stores had both of those but not a regular ATC add a fuse adapter. O'Reillys auto had a reg ATC add a fuse with ATC fuses included. Always good to have spare fuses.

I also bought an inline fuse to help protect the miniDC /DSP.


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Update: Looks like I should be able to finish this project this week  

Kind of nervous about how transformative this project is going to be. "Worse" case I will need to "upgrade" all my speakers in my house/wife's car. 

Remaining tasks:

mount woofers ( baffles on their way ) 
Sound deadening on the front doors and trunk
mount tweeters 
run speaker wire to tweeter and woofers
tune subwoofer to blend with the new system. 


Anyone know of some good test tracks and specific things I should listen for to help my tuning?


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## Nightmistx22 (Mar 30, 2017)

Got everything installed and working. got some ground work to do as I am dealing with some alternator whine... 

Once I get that solved I can do some fine tuning on the system. Overall I am very happy so far. Sounds amazing. I love listening to a song I have heard multiple times and realize there is something I have never heard in the song before.


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