# Fuel gelling again



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Bio fuel gels at around 43*

Anything below 25* is cause for concern. 18 is less then 25.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Bio fuel gels at around 43*
> 
> Anything below 25* is cause for concern. 18 is less then 25.


The fuel pump didn't have any bio stickers on it so that means it is somewhere below 5% bio if any at all. Probably zero bio content, but below 5% wouldn't really affect anything. I've been regularly running B11 from another reputable supplier and I only had one specific cold start issue with fuel that was blended to be good down to -18°F. I pushed it to the limit by not paying attention when I drove north and parked it where it was down to -23°F and has the cold start issue. With temperatures about 40 degrees warmer I didn't expect to have any problems.

My guess is this is a batch of fuel that people were slacking off because it's the end of February and beginning of March so spring must be right around the corner... and we got surprised with this cold snap that's settled in. It is temperatures about 20-30 degrees below normal for this time of year.


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## DarylB (Feb 3, 2011)

Barry Allen said:


> The fuel pump didn't have any bio stickers on it so that means it is somewhere below 5% bio if any at all. Probably zero bio content, but below 5% wouldn't really affect anything. I've been regularly running B11 from another reputable supplier and I only had one specific cold start issue with fuel that was blended to be good down to -18°F. I pushed it to the limit by not paying attention when I drove north and parked it where it was down to -23°F and has the cold start issue. With temperatures about 40 degrees warmer I didn't expect to have any problems.
> 
> My guess is this is a batch of fuel that people were slacking off because it's the end of February and beginning of March so spring must be right around the corner... and we got surprised with this cold snap that's settled in. It is temperatures about 20-30 degrees below normal for this time of year.


Almost all fuel has 1-5% bio in it now. I would keep power service in it every fill if I were up north like you, and parking outside in the cold


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

DarylB said:


> Almost all fuel has 1-5% bio in it now. I would keep power service in it every fill if I were up north like you, and parking outside in the cold


Yeah, the D-975 specification was revised to allow anything less than 5% biodiesel in the fuel without requiring a label at the pump.

It's not been a problem except for two instances: 1) The -23°F Polar Vortex, and; 2) This 18°F day with what turns out to be questionable fuel.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Yeah that’s definitely poor fluid quality even with biodiesel. The additive will fix that right up though.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

It's having the same problem today and I don't think it's gelling. The engine is starting right up fine but then when I give it any more than very light throttle it bucks and jumps. It's doing this when the engine is COLD and I think it's just the injectors squirting some large slugs of cold fuel that aren't atomizing enough for the glow plugs to fire them off. It's misfiring that happens under throttle in about the first 10-20 seconds of engine running from a cold start and once there is at least a little bit of heat from combustion the problem clears right up.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> It's having the same problem today and I don't think it's gelling. The engine is starting right up fine but then when I give it any more than very light throttle it bucks and jumps. It's doing this when the engine is COLD and I think it's just the injectors squirting some large slugs of cold fuel that aren't atomizing enough for the glow plugs to fire them off. It's misfiring that happens under throttle in about the first 10-20 seconds of engine running from a cold start and once there is at least a little bit of heat from combustion the problem clears right up.


Did you run the car after putting in additive? The fuel lines are bled but it’s not perfect. Plus running it with the right additive will slowly filter out the water which is likely the issue if not something mechanical.


speaking of water... draining or even replacing the fuel filter might fix it if you haven’t done that recently.


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## Drmilr (Mar 28, 2016)

Usually gels in the filter. Enough fuel getting through to feed engine at idle but anymore throttle and it will stall out. Most of the additives I have used have to be added above the cloud point. They prevent gelling not reversing it once formed. If it was cold out and not added when you filled up probably didn’t help


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I would try to open your water drain in the fuel filter and see if you get any water out.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Snipesy said:


> Did you run the car after putting in additive?


Yes. With 7/8 a tank of fuel I put in 1/4 of a 32 fluid ounce bottle of Power Service (double dose for the tank size) and promptly drove the car an hour south to my parents' house. 

My understanding of the fuel filter and fuel flow is based on the Duramax engines that use the same filter. The fuel flow through the Duramax engines will change the tank volume out a few times each hour because the fuel flow is used to cool the injectors and then returned to the tank after picking up waste heat. That, and the fuel filter has a heating element that turns on when the fuel flow into the filter is above about 50°F. In this manner, I expected the full volume of fuel in the tank of our Cruze sedans and hatchbacks does the same thing and flows through the fuel system at least a couple times each hour of running.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Drmilr said:


> Usually gels in the filter. Enough fuel getting through to feed engine at idle but anymore throttle and it will stall out.


I'm familiar with that problem on other vehicles. This was an unexpected and previously unexperienced shuddering immediately after a very cold start and both times it went away within literally 20-30 seconds. It also coincides with a tank of fuel from a retailer I've never visited before, and I'm suspicious of that. I only bought there because I had a $10 gift card to use up and I probably won't be back there for fuel purchases again.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> I would try to open your water drain in the fuel filter and see if you get any water out.


Once a quarter I'm running a dose of Power Service fuel & tank cleaner through the car. That's a product specified to remove water so if the fuel tank and filter is collecting any volume of water small enough to not illuminate the warning on the instrument cluster I'm fine with cleaning it out that way.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I've had gelling in the tanks. 200 gallons. 

Roadcall drained the filters. Filled with 911. And put a bottle in each tank. Needless to say. That was a LOT of white smoke driving down the highway.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

It continues to have the same problem this morning but I notice it was only bucking and chugging in 1st gear. Moderate (maybe 1/4 depressed) throttle from a stop gives it a point where the engine hesitates like it has a flat spot, and then further throttle input makes it buck and chug. Putting it in 2nd gear doesn't seem to be any problem like this. And then after about 20-30 seconds of running it is not a problem at all.

It seems to just be a cold start issue with arctic weather and maybe some questionable fuel. It just caught me by surprise because the car hasn't behaved like this all winter.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> It continues to have the same problem this morning but I notice it was only bucking and chugging in 1st gear. Moderate (maybe 1/4 depressed) throttle from a stop gives it a point where the engine hesitates like it has a flat spot, and then further throttle input makes it buck and chug. Putting it in 2nd gear doesn't seem to be any problem like this. And then after about 20-30 seconds of running it is not a problem at all.
> 
> It seems to just be a cold start issue with arctic weather and maybe some questionable fuel. It just caught me by surprise because the car hasn't behaved like this all winter.


It was likely poor fuel you received and it may not be a bad idea to check your filter. 
Fuel systems on these modern diesel are sensitive to poor or contaminated fuel.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> It was likely poor fuel you received and it may not be a bad idea to check your filter.
> Fuel systems on these modern diesel are sensitive to poor or contaminated fuel.


Today the weather is a bit warmer (above freezing) and the engine was surging at idle. The tachometer was resting at idle and it would spend some time bouncing up about 100 RPM. That's odd and I haven't seen it before. It's convincing me more and more that I'm never going back to that fuel station for diesel again.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> Today the weather is a bit warmer (above freezing) and the engine was surging at idle. The tachometer was resting at idle and it would spend some time bouncing up about 100 RPM. That's odd and I haven't seen it before. It's convincing me more and more that I'm never going back to that fuel station for diesel again.


No CEL's?

If you haven't taken a look at your fuel filter, I would open that up and see if it is dirty/plugged. If so, change it. It doesn't take much either. 
I had an F250 6.0L diesel that gave me a low fuel pressure warning and went into limp mode. 
The filter didn't even look that bad, but I changed the fuel filters and all was good. 
Our diesel fuel systems are very sensitive and low fuel pressure is not good for the HP pump or injectors.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> No CEL's?


Zero problems other than the misfiring on cold starts and the odd surging at idle.

I'll change fuel sources on Monday and see what happens. Probably nothing is an issue once I go back to know good fuel.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Our diesel fuel systems are very sensitive and low fuel pressure is not good for the HP pump or injectors.


Does the Cruze have a lift pump pushing fuel through the filter?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> Does the Cruze have a lift pump pushing fuel through the filter?


yes


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> It continues to have the same problem this morning but I notice it was only bucking and chugging in 1st gear. Moderate (maybe 1/4 depressed) throttle from a stop gives it a point where the engine hesitates like it has a flat spot, and then further throttle input makes it buck and chug. Putting it in 2nd gear doesn't seem to be any problem like this. And then after about 20-30 seconds of running it is not a problem at all.
> 
> It seems to just be a cold start issue with arctic weather and maybe some questionable fuel. It just caught me by surprise because the car hasn't behaved like this all winter.


Had this happen last night. Pretty sure I got a bad fill at a local station that I often use. Was -18F and the car took 6 tries to start and keep running. Sputtered and stalled several times. Was plugged in all day prior. The wind did not help as wind chill was -40. 

I was having intermittent fuel pressure issues prior to this but never a hard start anything like last night. 

I should have put in antigel additives sooner as a preventative measure.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

TDCruze said:


> The wind did not help as wind chill was -40.


wind chill has ZERO effect on a car that is parked, the car is the ambient temp


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

boraz said:


> wind chill has ZERO effect on a car that is parked, the car is the ambient temp


It has 100% effect on the block heater effectiveness.
Engine looses heat far faster in the wind, and attains a much lower equilibrium temperature than if calm.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

TDCruze said:


> It has 100% effect on the block heater effectiveness.
> Engine looses heat far faster in the wind, and attains a much lower equilibrium temperature than if calm.


Only if the engine block is in the wind - most of that wind will be blocked by the car body/aeroshield, so it's pretty much negligible.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

MP81 said:


> Only if the engine block is in the wind - most of that wind will be blocked by the car body/aeroshield, so it's pretty much negligible.


Lots of gaps around inner fenders and rad opening.
Parked in open area in 50km wind. 

My startup coolant temperature was about 15F colder plugged in than it would be in calm winds at the same ambient temp. Definitely increases the negative effects of the gelling and makes engine harder to start.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It'll certainly cool the coolant down because of the radiator (even with the thermostat closed), so that makes sense, and I'm thinking the lines actually feel the brunt of it, being under the car, where it's basically a wind tunnel. And being such a small surface area, they'll be likely to gel even quicker.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

MP81 said:


> It'll certainly cool the coolant down because of the radiator (even with the thermostat closed), so that makes sense, and I'm thinking the lines actually feel the brunt of it, being under the car, where it's basically a wind tunnel. And being such a small surface area, they'll be likely to gel even quicker.


The fuel quality is definitely the root cause. The wind I think pushed it over the tipping point for the starting as the top of the engine was the coldest it has been. 

I ignored the warning signs i had in slightly warmer conditions. Mainly the low pressure fuel intermittently running at 87psi rather than the usual 60psi. Some diesel 911 a day or two earlier would have likely avoided it.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

This was a while ago, but there have been exactly two tanks of fuel in the life of my car that I considered to be "bad" fuel. The first was this tank from a Kroger, and it was the only time my car has been misfiring on cold starts. A new tank from another place fixed the issue.

The other was more recent, from a Phillips 66 station, and it was shuddering/stumbling while steady cruising using the cruise control. A known good tank of fuel with some Stanadyne fuel injector cleaner fixed that.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I got an email for a 15¢ per gallon reward from Thorntons and they were cheapest this week, but I noticed it's one of those 5-20% biodiesel blends (probably 5% in winter now). 

The Polar Vortex is back, baby! I'm waiting to see what happens this week when it's -15ºF here. I'm definitely going to dump about half a bottle of PowerService white bottle into the tank because I don't want to deal with having it towed anywhere.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> This was a while ago, but there have been exactly two tanks of fuel in the life of my car that I considered to be "bad" fuel. The first was this tank from a Kroger, and it was the only time my car has been misfiring on cold starts. A new tank from another place fixed the issue.
> 
> The other was more recent, from a Phillips 66 station, and it was shuddering/stumbling while steady cruising using the cruise control. A known good tank of fuel with some Stanadyne fuel injector cleaner fixed that.


I am leaning more towards a bad tank of fuel. I've had it happen before, even with gas. 

Changed the fuel filter this morning as I wanted to check it for signs of gelling. If it had gelled it liquified in the warmth of the garage. No sluge whatsoever. The filter after only 9k miles was very dark and looked as bad as the first one at 35k miles. 

I will be getting a white bottle of the power service here today. Its still -32F this morning as a precaution and topping the tank off elsewhere.


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