# New Pistons and Rings Required



## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

Just about up to that mileage in my 2012 too. Just out of curiosity, how was the car driven and maintained?


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

Based on his average mileage for a 2012 Eco MT, I'd say not hard but not easy.


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

Car is driven mostly by my wife and she's heavy footed so she stays in boost a lot, but by no means is she hard on it. It very rarely gets driven hard and I'm to blame for the times it does get some exercise lol. The WRX gets tons more "abuse".

As for maintenance all done by me at or before scheduled intervals, I am running AMSOIL Signature 5w30 in the engine with oil analysis at each interval. And just switched out gear oil at 20k due to some "notchy-ness" going from 2-3, used AMSOIL 75w90 severe gear.


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

Hopefully not many have this problem and GM was able to correct it with the newer 2012 into 2013 models. This sound like very poor quality control on GMs part. Its like the sparkplug issue just screw them in and never check the fittings/gaps.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your Cruze. What octane fuel are you using?


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

Wonder if this has something to do with the issue Vince posted about (the one requiring a catch can). Why the heck would your rings go out? You running N20?! I wouldn't be ok with "oh, it needs some new parts". Obviously it needs new parts! What happened to the old ones is the question and what are you going to do to prevent it from happening again?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

titan2782 said:


> Wonder if this has something to do with the issue Vince posted about (the one requiring a catch can). Why the heck would your rings go out? You running N20?! I wouldn't be ok with "oh, it needs some new parts". Obviously it needs new parts! What happened to the old ones is the question and what are you going to do to prevent it from happening again?


I'm fairly certain this was part of a limited batch of Cruzes that had defective pistons. It's not the first time we've seen it, but it is very uncommon. If they replace the pistons, they'll naturally replace the piston rings as well.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm fairly certain this was part of a limited batch of Cruzes that had defective pistons. It's not the first time we've seen it, but it is very uncommon. If they replace the pistons, they'll naturally replace the piston rings as well.


Right, but I assumed the rings went out first causing the piston to go.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm fairly certain this was part of a limited batch of Cruzes that had defective pistons. It's not the first time we've seen it, but it is very uncommon. If they replace the pistons, they'll naturally replace the piston rings as well.


Any idea on an affected build date range? Based on his join-date, I'm going to guess mine is in the clear, but it would still be interesting to know.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm fairly certain this was part of a limited batch of Cruzes that had defective pistons. It's not the first time we've seen it, but it is very uncommon. If they replace the pistons, they'll naturally replace the piston rings as well.


Could this problem be associated with early build US engines?


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

I haven't had a chance to speak with the tech to find out details I've been working the past two days. From what I remember there was a limited batch affect by a defect in the piston ringland which caused premature failure in those affected. I don't know if there was actually a recall or not. My Cruze was manufactured June of 2011 and purchased in September of 2011. 

I intend on asking more specifics, because as mentioned if they replace pistons and rings and something else is bad or the root of the problem in another 20k am I going back in for another set of pistons?! Fuel has been 93 since my first fill up using top tier gas stations only.


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## Farmerboy (Sep 2, 2012)

Sunline Fan said:


> Any idea on an affected build date range? Based on his join-date, I'm going to guess mine is in the clear, but it would still be interesting to know.


Wondering the same thing... I've got a Aug 2011 build date with 26k+ mi and no problems so far, cross my fingers...


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

My ECO is a May 2011 build with the Austrian Built engine. 13,600 miles, at least 12,000 tuned miles seeing as much as 24 psi, no issues yet.


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

Wow man that really sucks. Hopefully they take care of you and not have issues down the road. I've got 32k on my 2011 eco and no problems so far.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using AutoGuide App


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

At least GM and your local dealer are fixing it on their dime.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

FatKidsCruze said:


> Our 2012 Chevy Cruze finally had its first MAJOR problem after a mere 21,xxx miles we were driving home Friday night and noticed a huge power loss and hesitation I immediately told my wife it was missing no code stored at that time. Fortunately we were already home within a mile or so limped her home. Pulled out the comp to check for any stored codes nothing so I fired it up and listened for the miss or any other problems upon startup a puff of smoke (unknown color dark out) came from exhaust and smelled ceramic leading me to think of a burning catalytic converter.
> 
> Let it sit overnight called Chevy sat am first thing and they sent out roadside through warranty to pick up car. Car made it to dealership, and they didn't notify us it had made it. So they didn't look at it Saturday, closed Sunday didn't look at it Monday where they finally allowed us a rental. Finally looked today to find it needs new rings & pistons.
> 
> ...




FatKidsCruze,
I would like to apologize for the issues that you are having with your Cruze. I understand your concerns as well as frustrations with this. I would like to look into it further for you. Can you please send me a PM with your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer? I look forward to your response as well as being able to assist you with your concerns. 
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## wbwing (Feb 23, 2011)

Until non tuned cars start having the same piston issues tuned cars are having, I have a hard time blaming a GM manufacturing defect. This is the third car on here I've seen have major engine issues related to the pistons. (If FatKidsCruze theory it is a piston problem is true). The last two were Trifecta tuned. Is your Cruze tuned FatKidsCruze? (If I recall correctly, it is) Also, I believe the claim of a defective batch of pistons was just hearsay that someone posted in one of the threads related to the last time there was a piston issue and the board ran just ran with it. No actual statement from GM or someone with authority that such a claim was true.

Not to say that there can't be a manufacturing defect from GM's side, but if you are tuning your engine, you're taking a risk. Breaking an engine because you took it beyond what the manufacturer intended is a real possibility.

If you are tuned, you should be really happy that GM is replacing anything under warranty at all.


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

I never said I blamed GM for the issue, although it doesn't (IMO) go far to showing the build quality of the car that GM put out. The tune increases power roughly 30% which driven normally with a sprint here and there should be nothing for a modern car to handle. Look at the many Japanese and European cars that are going with more power on otherwise stock vehicles. With that said there could be any number of things that lead to the current issue.

Now on the other side of things in these cases of failed pistons maybe the tune is a little too lean or there are/were conditions present at the time of failure due to the tune. I agree thus far 100% of piston failure has occurred only within tuned vehicles, however, there are plenty of Cruzers with the tune and more miles than those that failed. As for reinstalling the tune, I can't say that I won't, but for now its not going back on. As stated before modifying comes at a risk and for 20k miles the tune proved worry free. Was it 20,000mi of added power or one moment of less than optimum conditions that caused the cherry to pop? Truth is I don't know the answer, but I think I'll play it safe for now. I was lucky my dealership covered the repair wholly with nary a question, and my pistons were sent to GM engineers so maybe one day they can/will provide an answer.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

FKC: I don't know if the tune is the culprit either, but time may be the true indicator. I altered the transmission on my Civic by replacing the Honda ATF with Mobil1 ATF to improve shifting. I had done this on previous automatics with no problems. The Civic ran fine for 30,000 miles with the Mobil1 ATF and then suddenly began shifting like you had put a Hurst kit in it, just hammering the shifts. I found out that Honda's can only have Honda ATF in them. It seems that it messes up the seals in the shift solenoids. Fortunately, draining the Mobil1 out and replacing it with Honda ATF fixed things. 

The point here is that everything was fine for 30,000 miles and then things went south very suddenly.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

FatKidsCruze said:


> I never said I blamed GM for the issue, although it doesn't (IMO) go far to showing the build quality of the car that GM put out.


I didn't realize this car was tuned. 

3 known cruzes with piston issues, 3 tuned cars. 

450,000+ untuned cars, and to the best of my knowledge 0 piston issues. 


NO cast piston will survive long under detonation. Not GMs fault, but i'd give them a huge thank you for footing the bill for Trifecta's mistakes. 

As for your logic about other tuned cars not having issues, the knock threshold is never 100% the same from car to car. I've seen 2 stock Evos, same dyno, same day, same fuel, and one took 2-3* more timing than the other. All it takes is one carbon deposit in the wrong place to affect knock tolerance.


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

Hoon said:


> NO cast piston will survive long under detonation. Not GMs fault, but i'd give them a huge thank you for footing the bill for Trifecta's mistakes.


This is exactly why I decided to not retune. Until I can afford to replace the pistons with forged pieces and have the car fine tuned, I don't trust it. Not trying to scare anyone with a tune, now I'd be willing to work with Vince and Trifecta to look into this for answers long as they would foot the bill on new pistons and rings lol. 

Yeah on the board maybe only 3 (possibly a 4th now) have popped pistons having a tune. Maybe it's the lack of info I gathered, because I just assumed the tune was safe running 93 octane from top tier gas stations and that the knock sensor would pick up any stray knock.

Anyway God and GM were looking out for us as our car is fixed and the break really made me remember my wife and I bought the car because of the mileage not performance its a family car. I love her, but she likes cars and performance almost as much as I do so the modifications began. The inkake will probably go back on, tune will NOT (at least for now) and we may lower and put wheels on if they ever come out with decent ones in the 5x105 bolt pattern. Enkei group buy anyone 10 sets and we can get a custom order, Kojin and Rajin are pretty nice lol


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## iCruze2 (Dec 16, 2011)

FatKidsCruze said:


> This is exactly why I decided to not retune. Until I can afford to replace the pistons with forged pieces and have the car fine tuned, I don't trust it. Not trying to scare anyone with a tune, now I'd be willing to work with Vince and Trifecta to look into this for answers long as they would foot the bill on new pistons and rings lol.


You would think a boosted car would have came with forged pistons/rods to begin with...shame on GM for cheaping out


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

Not true the WRX by Subaru runs on cast pistons at least the 02-07s not sure about the newer GRs. Cast pistons can be durable enough to take daily use on stock levels for which they were intended. The process by which the piston is cast also has an effect on durability. As stated earlier though cars are the same yet different, two of the exact "same" cars can and often will have different tolerances.


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## MyShibbyEco (Jan 21, 2012)

Forged pistons are not a large concern on engines with power adders. The main concern(s) is the ring gap is appropriate (and clocked correctly), and the connecting rods can handle the force of the power adder (which does not necessarily mean forged). The main concern with pistons is being able to handle the heat generated so the piston does not burn (creating holes/cracks).

If the bad pistons/rings is directly linked to having a tuned ECU, I would think it has to do with having rings not gapped to tolerances to support the extra compression (which can also be why BNR suggests a catch can). It is also possible the AFR is too hot for the piston and burning the piston.

I highly doubt the pistons are what is actually going (unless they are burning up from an AFR not tolerable by the pistons), and more likely the rings need replacing, which involves removing the pistons and rods.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

iCruze2 said:


> You would think a boosted car would have came with forged pistons/rods to begin with...shame on GM for cheaping out


Not true at all. There are many reasons besides cost to choose a cast piston over a forged one for a low boost application. Even the overwhelming majority of performance cars are on cast pistons. STIs, EVOs, etc are all cast pistons. Even stuff like the Camaro ZL1 is cast, not forged. 

People in the Mitsu world have made close to 900hp on cast pistons. 


FatKidsCruze said:


> Yeah on the board maybe only 3 (possibly a 4th now) have popped pistons having a tune. Maybe it's the lack of info I gathered, because I just assumed the tune was safe running 93 octane from top tier gas stations and that the knock sensor would pick up any stray knock.


One would expect that to be the case...

This is just further confirmation that i should tune my own car with EFI Live instead of buying an off the shelf tune. 



FatKidsCruze said:


> Not true the WRX by Subaru runs on cast pistons at least the 02-07s not sure about the newer GRs. Cast pistons can be durable enough to take daily use on stock levels for which they were intended. The process by which the piston is cast also has an effect on durability. As stated earlier though cars are the same yet different, two of the exact "same" cars can and often will have different tolerances.


STI/WRX pistons are still cast, and still very weak to this day (not because they're cast, because of the design). They still have the tendency to crack ring lands. 



MyShibbyEco said:


> Forged pistons are not a large concern on engines with power adders. The main concern(s) is the ring gap is appropriate (and clocked correctly), and the connecting rods can handle the force of the power adder (which does not necessarily mean forged). The main concern with pistons is being able to handle the heat generated so the piston does not burn (creating holes/cracks).
> 
> If the bad pistons/rings is directly linked to having a tuned ECU, I would think it has to do with having rings not gapped to tolerances to support the extra compression (which can also be why BNR suggests a catch can). It is also possible the AFR is too hot for the piston and burning the piston.
> 
> I highly doubt the pistons are what is actually going (unless they are burning up from an AFR not tolerable by the pistons), and more likely the rings need replacing, which involves removing the pistons and rods.


What generally happens with mild detonation on a cast piston is the ring lands crack, which causes the rings to get crushed/move out of place, and sudden loss of compression results. 

It takes SEVERE knock to actually melt the pistons, but moderate knock can crack them. Usually the ring lands are the first part to go.


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## Sonic (Oct 21, 2012)

But was the whole Piston issue a TSB/Recall from Chevrolet, and maybe the added wear from the tune is just bringing the problem to the front sooner rather then later? If anything, have GM fix it now while its under warrenty then to have this issue present later......


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

> *#PIP5036B: Possible Oil Consumption Or Blue Smoke From The Exhaust CEL Or Fuel Trim Codes - (Nov 13, 2012)
> 
> *Perform PI0552 to check the engine oil dipstick and oil fill cap for proper sealing.
> Perform PIP4925 to check for any air leaks to the intake system.
> ...


GM doesn't issue TSB's based on damage seen from an aftermarket tune. This problem does indeed exist, tune or no tune.


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## Sonic (Oct 21, 2012)

mcg75 said:


> GM doesn't issue TSB's based on damage seen from an aftermarket tune. This problem does indeed exist, tune or no tune.


Thank you - that's what I thought. 

Maybe were just seeing the issue present more with tuned people for reasons mentioned above - or - most of the people who post/tune are on this forum and others experiencing this same issue are not on our forum reporting and are normal daily drivers. With so many Cruzen out there I'm sure the pool of related issues is larger and were just seeing the small puddle beside it - otherwise the TSB would of never went out.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

mcg75 said:


> GM doesn't issue TSB's based on damage seen from an aftermarket tune. This problem does indeed exist, tune or no tune.


Maybe it does exist, but based on the very small number of cases we have on the forum, it's only been tuned cars, and there are many more untuned than tuned. 

Also, the tune is supposed to be undetectable, so maybe GM is issuing a TSB based on an aftermarket tune. Obviously they aren't aware that OPs car was tuned, or they would (rightfully) deny the warranty claim.


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

Hoon said:


> Maybe it does exist, but based on the very small number of cases we have on the forum, it's only been tuned cars, and there are many more untuned than tuned.
> 
> Also, the tune is supposed to be undetectable, so maybe GM is issuing a TSB based on an aftermarket tune. Obviously they aren't aware that OPs car was tuned, or they would (rightfully) deny the warranty claim.


But as has been mentioned the tune could just be accelerating the appearance of the problem. Those running no tune may not experience the issues until quite a few more miles for example maybe not until nearing 40K mi or more. Of course this is speculation and I don't think the majority of US Cruzes have reached this mark.

And as you said yes they probably would have denied the claim, although I have taken the car in with my intake and did not have it denied.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

It's probably a combination of a weak piston and an engine tuned to run on the knock threshold (even stock). 

These engines can run as lean as 13.7:1 at full boost on the stock tune. I'm sure trifecta richens it up, but the added boost/heat isn't going to make things easier for the pistons.


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## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

iCruze2 said:


> You would think a boosted car would have came with forged pistons/rods to begin with...shame on GM for cheaping out



Just to be clear here...the 1.4 turbo Cruze has hypereutectic pistons and forged rods. Strangely they used a cast crankshaft but with 5 main bearings that is probably enough. Cast pistons in turbo motors crack from detonation, over-rev or defect. Rarely from over boost. I would think the weak link here would be the crank.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

You folks are worrying me a little bit. Although at 41k miles, 38k miles running a tune, everything seems fine. 

From what I've read so far, the folks having problems are the ones who install the tune early in the car's life, before the engine's fully broken in. I'd recommend waiting 3000-5000 miles before installing a tune, and then going easy on it for the first few hundred miles. 

And, fighting detonation is another issue we need to watch. Running a good fuel system cleaner every oil change will help prevent carbon buildup, which will stop that carbon from pre-detonating the incoming fuel/air mixture.


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## iCruze2 (Dec 16, 2011)

sciphi said:


> You folks are worrying me a little bit. Although at 41k miles, 38k miles running a tune, everything seems fine.
> 
> From what I've read so far, the folks having problems are the ones who install the tune early in the car's life, before the engine's fully broken in. I'd recommend waiting 3000-5000 miles before installing a tune, and then going easy on it for the first few hundred miles.
> 
> And, fighting detonation is another issue we need to watch. Running a good fuel system cleaner every oil change will help prevent carbon buildup, which will stop that carbon from pre-detonating the incoming fuel/air mixture.


LOL then I am SCREWED, I'm pretty sure I installed my trifecta with 500 miles on it....heh heh


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

So ... how about the other tuned vehicles that had piston failures? What was the mileage on them when originally tuned? I have nearly 46k miles on my 2012 eco, and was getting ready to tune it ... now I'm not so sure that's a wise decision. Maybe I should spend the money on my Silver Bullet and Avalanche instead since the Eco is my daily driver. (and at 120 miles a day, can't really do without it)


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Tunes expose weaknesses with underlying hardware. So, more maintenance is required to offset the increased wear and tear caused by a tune. Even then, most tuned cars will go a long life with no issues.

If somebody tuned their car early, keep up on the oil changes and fuel system cleaners.


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

Hoon said:


> Maybe it does exist, but based on the very small number of cases we have on the forum, it's only been tuned cars, and there are many more untuned than tuned.
> 
> Also, the tune is supposed to be undetectable, so maybe GM is issuing a TSB based on an aftermarket tune. Obviously they aren't aware that OPs car was tuned, or they would (rightfully) deny the warranty claim.


The tune is only undetectable by a dealer scantool. If GM searched the computer, they'd find it. 

And it would take far more than a few cases for GM to issue a tsb and then update that tsb again later.


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## FatKidsCruze (Sep 2, 2011)

So I just relooked at the techs notes, there were massive amounts of oil in the charge pipes. Prior to this breakdown our Cruze had no signs of oil consumption have done 3 oil changes in the car's life using amsoil signature. Oil level was checked at least every other fill up.

An air oil separator or oil catch can would probably not be a bad idea especially for those on the tune.


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## PureEnergi (Aug 22, 2012)

a cast piston can be designed for boost easily. I run 22 psi of boost on an inline 4 with CAST mahle pistons. if the tune is correct A/f is correct and you are being realistic.. a cast piston can survive boost quite well.

neon srt4 has cast pistons... old turbo dodge 2.2. 2.5's had cast pistons. capable of enormous power and torque for a 4 pot. Hoon hit it square... most turbo cars these days have cast pistons. its the shitty tune and or lack of.. too much air and NOT enough fuel. makes a fire rather hot. not to mention...resilience in this lil 1.4 remains to be seen. wanna mod something mod an LSX imo they are getting cheap


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## GM Master Tech (Nov 11, 2012)

A by product of to much boost without meth injection.I bet the IAT2 numbers were running real hi on that car.I have seen GM have us pull a program in the last few years so they could check it.They were watching Duramax motors closely.I suggest if your car is tuned and you have the capability check your own data logs carefully.Not all tuneing is equal and i trusted my pistons to Vtuners programing ! well worth a few extra bucks in my book !


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## Chocbach (Jan 4, 2013)

Well, I'm having fun reading this thread! Just found out today my 2011 Cruze ECO needs the new rings and pistons. I don't even know what a "tune" is (other than a song!) so I take great pride in being the first to have this problem without the tune.  

The dealership said they'd never seen this problem before. Purchased the car in late July 2011, mileage is only 15,746. Not happy that the warranty requires they provide us with a Chevy rental, as it took almost 2 hours to find a Chevy for us to rent.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

glad i searched before posting a new thread. 

after 5 unsuccesful attempts to fix my oil leak, GM has decided to tear apart my engine to fix something in the bottom end. the service manager didn't have much information for me, but said they are doing the rings for sure.

stock engine 34k kms


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

and they've ordered a new engine for the car


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