# Engine Warm Up



## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

I have a 2013 Cruze with the 1.4 L Turbo. Does anyone notice that it takes a while for the engine to warm up? I would say it takes about 5 - 7 minutes for the temperature gauge to rise just above the cold mark when it's in the 30's outside. And it can take up to 10-12 minutes for the engine to reach normal operating temperature. I will say that once the car reaches normal operating temperature, the heater is great. I never have to put the fan speed above 2 and most of the time, I keep the fan speed on 1. And I don't have to put the temperature control all the way up.

In comparing this to my 2010 Malibu, the temperature gauge would leave the cold mark within a minute of normal driving. But, the heater was definitely not as good as the Cruze once it reached normal operating temperature. The heat never got as warm as the Cruze and I had to use higher fan speeds on the Malibu to warm the car up. Also, the Malibu did not have a cabin air filter. That was something of much discussion on the Malibu Forum. I would assume that they added this feature to the the new revamped Malibu.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Your numbers seem pretty accurate with what I have seen. I only idle the car long enough for it to drop off high idle(1500RPM) which is usually under a minute. Car warms up faster if driven, temp gauge will start to rise in under 4 minutes even in 10 degree F weather if driven at highway speeds or increase load(hills).


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

It's not a very big engine. You can get the car to warm up slightly faster by not running your heater until the guage is at the first quarter mark. Obviously, if you need to defrost, do it. Also, there's no need to let this car idle after starting it unless it's way below zero.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I start the heater as soon as the gauge reaches 1/2 of the 1/4 mark. 

If you blast it on 4 it won't warm up, but as soon as you turn it down it'll warm up quickly. 

As long as I have heat, I don't mind the engine not warming up!


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

Ive noticed that if you're one to start your car 5-10 minutes before leaving, put the blower on the third setting, max heat on defrost, turn your A/C on and rear defroster. It helps heat the cabin quicker to me.

Something to try.

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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

If I feel a need to, on a cold day I'll watch the temperature reading on the DIC. When it hits 120 the engine has warmed up enough to put out heat. If the heater continues to run, then it can 20 minutes of city driving to fully warm the engine above 200.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

The engine is tiny and takes longer to get up to temperature. Try recirculate to warm the cabin instead of bringing in really cold air, which will slow down engine warm up. Once warmed up though we can get some great heat out of the Cruze since the engine operating temp is around 220 F.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

i dont use the highway to get to work or in general. another thing you can try to get the car to warm up is to either drive in manual mode to get some higher revs or just put it in manual mode once youre going and drop it into 5th gear to keep the rpms up. i do this the first 10 min i drive and it seems to be helping. temps here are single digits to teens right now. fan speed 4 is not an option if you want your car to get to op temp if your driving for 30 min or less in most cases. i think this car could idle for days and the temp gauge would stay on C.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

We sure had our share of problems with large V-8 engines in FWD vehicles using electric radiator fans with alternator designs. Worse case scenarios was at idle or city driving when the radiator fans were drawing huge amounts of when the alternator was least capable of producing current at these low speeds. One fan in the alternator wasn't enough, had to use two high pitched fan blades, plus the voltage regulator had to operate reliably up to 190 degrees C!

Another culprit was the blower motor for the MVAC system drawing another 25 amperes. Yet another culprit as the condenser preheating the air before it got to the radiator to well over 105 degrees C even before it reached the radiator. RWD vehicles with an engine driven fan didn't have near the problems.

Engine thermal cycling was yet another problem imposed upon us saving a few cents to use the engine temperature cooling temperature sensor as the controlling factor for the radiator fans. Engines would constantly thermal cycle between 195*F and 235*F worsened by using an aluminum head on a cast iron block, aluminum thermal expansion is seven times greater than cast iron.

Cruze with an 86 CID engine doesn't nearly have these problems as opposed to a 454, does have a radiator fan, but rarely ever turns on. I rarely let the engine idle, wastes gas, but did once while waiting for my wife in 10*F weather. While the engine was at operating temperature at midway, actually dropped to a quarter at idle with the heater going.

Starting off cold in this kind of weather, 04 Cavalier would deliver warm air after a mile, Cruze takes a mile and a half. We can live with this to save on fuel. Electrically heated seats also helps, mainly for my wife, I am ex-military, so supposed to be tough, LOL. 

Electrical vehicles really have this problem, haven't read much about the Volt only that at twice the price would never see a payback. But with the GM EV, switching on the AC would cut the range in half. Cruze is a pretty good compromise in my opinion.

Really been awhile since we had -40*F weather in Wisconsin, but at -10*F driving at highway speeds, temperature gauge remained at midrange with plenty of heat. Ever try sleeping in a pup tent in subzero weather? It's all relative.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> I start the heater as soon as the gauge reaches 1/2 of the 1/4 mark.
> 
> If you blast it on 4 it won't warm up, but as soon as you turn it down it'll warm up quickly.
> 
> ...


I usually start the heater when the temperature guage rises just above the cold mark. You will get some heat at that point. One question regarding the temperature control. I noticed that when turning the control in the red area, there's a slight "click" when you turn it to the maximum warm position. You can feel it when you turn it to the fully warm position and away from that position. And there's a little space in the red area when you look at the temperature contol in the fully warm position. It looks like the blue area has that same "click". What is that click? Does it cause the heating system to do something different when it's in that position? I don't usually put the heater control all the way up. Don't need to. Just wondering what that maximum position does.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

GoldenCruze said:


> If I feel a need to, on a cold day I'll watch the temperature reading on the DIC. When it hits 120 the engine has warmed up enough to put out heat. If the heater continues to run, then it can 20 minutes of city driving to fully warm the engine above 200.


Does the DIC on the Cruze have a temperature reading on the DIC? I haven't noticed this. I did have some cars that had temperature readouts on the DIC. I like that, because I knew I could get heat when the readout reached 100 degrees. I know the Cruze has a battery volts readout which my Malibu didn't have. But I haven't noticed a temperature readout.


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## cruze01 (Mar 25, 2011)

My new 2013 is the same way. You can let it idle for 10 minutes and then drive it 10-15 minutes more before it ever gets to full operating temp. It does help if you keep the controls on recirculate so your not pulling super cold air across the coil. It hasn't gotten cold here yet, around 32 has been the worst so far. I wonder what it will do when we see 0. I had traded in a 2011 for this one, I don't remember it being so cold natured.


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

On my 2012 LTZ model the DIC no longer has the temp read out. Mine warms up fast not as fast as my Camaro did but with the help of the heated seats all is well. What is different is once the engine is nice and hot you can feel the bottom of the radiator hose on the airfilter side it is cool to the touch. With the electric controlled thermostat it lets in very little coolant to the engine only as needed. The Cruze would take alot longer to heat up with a standard heat core
thermostat.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Richard said:


> I usually start the heater when the temperature guage rises just above the cold mark. You will get some heat at that point. One question regarding the temperature control. I noticed that when turning the control in the red area, there's a slight "click" when you turn it to the maximum warm position. You can feel it when you turn it to the fully warm position and away from that position. And there's a little space in the red area when you look at the temperature contol in the fully warm position. It looks like the blue area has that same "click". What is that click? Does it cause the heating system to do something different when it's in that position? I don't usually put the heater control all the way up. Don't need to. Just wondering what that maximum position does.


That "click" on the cold side closes the recirculating damper for maximum cold air, regardless of the switch by the AC button. I'm not sure if it does the same on heat or not - I have never listened for a change in the airflow or the motor running. 

Confused me at first with the AC though. 


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

Bohdan said:


> On my 2012 LTZ model the DIC no longer has the temp read out.


My 2012 2LT does have it. As I recall, there was a 2012 mid model year change to the instrument cluster that removed the temperature reading from it. A TSB was put out about that for when the dash cluster is replaced as a repair.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

GoldenCruze said:


> My 2012 2LT does have it. As I recall, there was a 2012 mid model year change to the instrument cluster that removed the temperature reading from it. A TSB was put out about that for when the dash cluster is replaced as a repair.


My 1LT 2012 built in January has the temp display on the DIC still, think I read about the change sometime in April.


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## Ru5ty (Jun 20, 2012)

its currently -15 Celsius here in quebec canada ( saguenay ) car will not reach optimum temp anymore cause of the ambient air temp. i have only been getting to 80C in town , but if i drive for an hour or so i make it to optimum engine temperature ( around 100C ) . the 1.4 is a small engine and i guess this is the downside of having such a eco engine. nothing is perfect but its only my gf that minds cause she's always clod  car still runs great tho. no problems to report in regards to the winter yet, we have had up to - 50C here and winter is still not in full swing. its in February that ill start to worry. thats when the very low temps hit. my 2012 made in july does not have temp in the dic so i bought a scangauge 2


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

GoldenCruze said:


> My 2012 2LT does have it. As I recall, there was a 2012 mid model year change to the instrument cluster that removed the temperature reading from it. A TSB was put out about that for when the dash cluster is replaced as a repair.


I would really like a temperature readout. I can't understand why they would do away with it. It's a handy feature to have. Much better to monitor actual coolant temperature than look at a temperature guage. Still, I don't understand why a temperature readout would cause problems with the DIC.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Richard said:


> I would really like a temperature readout. I can't understand why they would do away with it. It's a handy feature to have. Much better to monitor actual coolant temperature than look at a temperature gauge. Still, I don't understand why a temperature readout would cause problems with the DIC.


I don't think it was causing problems with the DIC, just making people bring cars in for service that did not need any. People see the car is running 217-220 & think its running hot, nope that's normal operating temp. 

Also people see it get to 150-220 degrees on a cold day & once the thermostat opens the engine start to cool off thinking again something is wrong. I believe when people see this(seen it this morning on mine) its just an initial drop from the thermostat opening & cool & hot antifreeze mixing. When mine did it(on the highway) I just climbed a 300 ft hill & hit 220 degrees, for the next 2 miles its downhill/flat the motor dropped back to 150 degrees. After I had to accelerate back up to highway speed it increased to 220 degrees & never fluctuated again. Total warm up time was 15-20 minutes in 24 degree weather. 

The computer controlled thermostat act strange in the summer too, running 220 degrees at the base of a hill, once the load increases the thermostat opens & by the top of the hill the engine temp has dropped to 180. Never had a car that the engine cooled off climbing a hill! coasting down the backside of that same hill car was back to 220 degrees within 20 seconds.


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

yes my 2011 takes about the same amount of time to warm up when it gets in the 20's or below. it is a pain for me because we live so close to our church/school it is within walking distance but when it is sleeting/icing/snowing it is hard to walk. 

not sure what to do. it isn't good to run the car cold and shut it off before it reaches operating temp. and letting it idle a lot isn't the best for it either and kills the gas mileage. 

I guess I will have to lean towards letting it idle or remote start it before I go. I think it was much better before the retarded shield recall. I think that help hold the heat in or kept the cold out (which ever it is) and help warm up the engine better. 

I want my shield back for free!!!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The engine is as room temperature within a minute of starting. It was about 20F this morning and I started the car, backed out of my driveway, and by the time I had driven a quarter mile to the end of the street keeping my RPMs below 1500 the entire way the DIC read 79F for water temperature. (I have the DIC temperature readout). The car's temperature continued to climb at a pretty constant rate until it hit 150F which is when I turned on my cabin heater and blower to 2. The temperature continued to climb, but more slowly at that point.

I've driven all my GMs this way and never had a problem with engine or transmission longevity.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

jsusanka said:


> yes my 2011 takes about the same amount of time to warm up when it gets in the 20's or below. it is a pain for me because we live so close to our church/school it is within walking distance but when it is sleeting/icing/snowing it is hard to walk.
> 
> not sure what to do. it isn't good to run the car cold and shut it off before it reaches operating temp. and letting it idle a lot isn't the best for it either and kills the gas mileage.
> 
> ...


i still have the full shield and it does not help at all!!!!!!!!!!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jdubb11 said:


> i still have the full shield and it does not help at all!!!!!!!!!!


I wouldn't expect it to. The upper and lower air intakes are above the splash shield and heat tends to rise. The shield does have a small reflective cover on it, but this cover is limited to the front of the shield directly under the intercooler. Hoon just reported in another thread that the intercooler is only running about 10 degrees warmer than ambient air in the winter.


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## Cruzemeister (Mar 22, 2011)

jdubb11 said:


> i still have the full shield and it does not help at all!!!!!!!!!!


Quite the recall, isn't it. Remember though that GM vehicles hold their resale value very well. So, if you want to walk away someday, you'll have people lined up to buy. And you will call the shots. Holding the right cards. Weilding da powwa.... gitten 'er done..... :eusa_clap:
For what it's worth, I traded my 2011 Cruze 1.8 for a 1.4 turbo . It's a Dodge Dart.:smileystooges:


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

Cruzemeister said:


> Quite the recall, isn't it. Remember though that GM vehicles hold their resale value very well. So, if you want to walk away someday, you'll have people lined up to buy. And you will call the shots. Holding the right cards. Weilding da powwa.... gitten 'er done..... :eusa_clap:
> For what it's worth, I traded my 2011 Cruze 1.8 for a 1.4 turbo . It's a Dodge Dart.:smileystooges:


id rather have a cold cruze then a dodge dar......anything lol


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Cruzemeister said:


> Quite the recall, isn't it. Remember though that GM vehicles hold their resale value very well. So, if you want to walk away someday, you'll have people lined up to buy. And you will call the shots. Holding the right cards. Weilding da powwa.... gitten 'er done..... :eusa_clap:
> For what it's worth, I traded my 2011 Cruze 1.8 for a 1.4 turbo . It's a Dodge Dart.:smileystooges:


Let's keep the sniping out of this thread. We know you traded your LS for a Dart. Please don't mention it everywhere, unless it's relevant!


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

From my experience.. the car won't heat up fully unless you get on the highway. However, you can reach 1/4 on the temperature gauge quicker by keeping the heat off for a few minutes. It climbs to 1/4 in about 2-3 minutes that way. Much better


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

Splash shield makes no difference. I have it, and the car takes about twenty minutes to fully warm in city driving. This morning, about ten minutes on the Interstate.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

It really is no big deal. I can get heat when the temperature gauge rises just above the Cold mark. It's enough heat to take the cold out of the car. And once the car heats up, it has an excellent heater. I never have to put the fan speed above 2 and most of the time, I keep it on 1. The car actually gets too warm if I put the fan speed any higher.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

richard, do you live in hawaii??:1poke:


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## n4435rc (Apr 25, 2012)

2012 Cruze 2LT 1.4T.
I commute 50 miles each way every day. This morning it was about 8F outside. I have about 4 blocks of city and then highway all the way. If I turn my heat on full and fan on 4 the engine will never get up to 220 on DIC. If I keep my fan on 1 or off for a while and let the engine get over 180, it will stay there if heater is on full; I still have to keep my heater backed off to get to full operating temp. My gas mileage dropped about 5 over warm weather. On the days I kept the heat on full right away, my mileage was worse yet. Not sure about when or if it goes to closed loop on fuel delivery at a certain temp. I'm taking it to the dealer tomorrow to look at the temp thing. I have 35,000 miles on it in one year. I expect that the temp problem will just be a normal thing for this car as most of you are having the same symptom. With heated seats it's not too bad with keeping the heat down for a while.
I know it is programed for the maximum economy by keeping the engine as hot as possible. Mine too will run cooler on hot days and heavier loads and warmer on light loads and cooler days. I'm impressed with the small things GM has done to improve efficiency. The oil pump is variable displacement too to keep the drag to a minimum. I'm not happy about the engine shield mod as after removing 80% of the sheild, my mileage dropped about .5mpg. Guess they had to do that. I got oil on my shield once when I changed oil. I don't need a fire.


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

found this on youtube, might be a member here already..... Chevy Cruze 2011, 2012 & 2013 temp issue's (Lemons) - YouTube


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

Starks8 said:


> found this on youtube, might be a member here already..... Chevy Cruze 2011, 2012 & 2013 temp issue's (Lemons) - YouTube


 pretty much hits the nail on the head on that one. hes far from alone. but the car is working "as designed" as per two dealer trips. i jumped on the highway the other day and she warmed right up. city driving and your gunna be cold. DO NOT USE SPEED 4 ON THE FAN!!


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## n4435rc (Apr 25, 2012)

2012 Cruze 2LT 1.4T
My car is at the dealership now. They agreed that the engine does not warm up normally. They told me that they drove several other Cruzes and some did what mine does and some did not. They are keeping it one more day to order and install a new temp. control valve. (thermostat) It is not actually a thermostat but a flow control valve. It is controlled by the computer.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

n4435rc said:


> 2012 Cruze 2LT 1.4T
> My car is at the dealership now. They agreed that the engine does not warm up normally. They told me that they drove several other Cruzes and some did what mine does and some did not. They are keeping it one more day to order and install a new temp. control valve. (thermostat) It is not actually a thermostat but a flow control valve. It is controlled by the computer.


sounds intresting. let us know how it works out for ya!!!


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## n4435rc (Apr 25, 2012)

2012 Cruze 2LT 1.4T
Ok, got my Cruze back last night. This morning it was a little warmer and it did not have any trouble warming up. By the first of next week we will have single digit temps in the morning again so I will report back after that. 
In the mean time I was just thinking, I got this car in Jan of 2012. I don't remember noticing that it had trouble warming up then. Has anyone noticed this problem after the bottom engine shield was cut away from the engine shield mod?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

n4435rc said:


> 2012 Cruze 2LT 1.4T
> Ok, got my Cruze back last night. This morning it was a little warmer and it did not have any trouble warming up. By the first of next week we will have single digit temps in the morning again so I will report back after that.
> In the mean time I was just thinking, I got this car in Jan of 2012. I don't remember noticing that it had trouble warming up then. Has anyone noticed this problem after the bottom engine shield was cut away from the engine shield mod?


Subscribing... I doubt my car has anything wrong with the "thermostat" but you never know. It could be one of those things that doesn't get any attention unless the customer complains. My car seems to take forever to warm up unless I'm at highway speeds, then it seems to warm up OK.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

n4435rc, 

We look forward to your next update! Hopefully this has been resolved for you. 

Sarah (Assisting Stacy), Chevrolet Customer Service


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

jdubb11 said:


> richard, do you live in hawaii??:1poke:


You're right. It was 28 degrees today and it took forever for the car to warm up. I was on the road for 15 minutes and the temperature gauge only went up a quarter of the way. I was getting some heat, but not enough to really warm the car up. I was so used to my Malibu. No matter how cold it was outside. The temperature gauge would start to rise within a minute of driving. I know the Cruze has a small engine, but you would think that it would warm up a little faster. If it's not too cold outside, you can live with it, but when it's really cold, it does test your patience. But as I said before, once the engine warms up, the heat is excellent - much better than the Malibu. But you have to be patient.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

n4435rc said:


> 2012 Cruze 2LT 1.4T.
> I commute 50 miles each way every day. This morning it was about 8F outside. I have about 4 blocks of city and then highway all the way. If I turn my heat on full and fan on 4 the engine will never get up to 220 on DIC. If I keep my fan on 1 or off for a while and let the engine get over 180, it will stay there if heater is on full; I still have to keep my heater backed off to get to full operating temp. My gas mileage dropped about 5 over warm weather. On the days I kept the heat on full right away, my mileage was worse yet. Not sure about when or if it goes to closed loop on fuel delivery at a certain temp. I'm taking it to the dealer tomorrow to look at the temp thing. I have 35,000 miles on it in one year. I expect that the temp problem will just be a normal thing for this car as most of you are having the same symptom. With heated seats it's not too bad with keeping the heat down for a while.
> I know it is programed for the maximum economy by keeping the engine as hot as possible. Mine too will run cooler on hot days and heavier loads and warmer on light loads and cooler days. I'm impressed with the small things GM has done to improve efficiency. The oil pump is variable displacement too to keep the drag to a minimum. I'm not happy about the engine shield mod as after removing 80% of the sheild, my mileage dropped about .5mpg. Guess they had to do that. I got oil on my shield once when I changed oil. I don't need a fire.


I noticed also that the gas mileage dropped when it got really cold outside. I guess the engine has to race more to warm it up, but I wasn't expecting a significant difference. I was getting about 27 MPG with mixed highway and city driving. Now that it got really cold, I'm getting about 25 MPG mixed highway and city driving.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with your thermostat. My car is only 2 months old and it has about 1,500 miles. It takes a long time for it to warm up. It's just a characteristic of this engine. It's a pretty small engine.


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## n4435rc (Apr 25, 2012)

Chevy Customer Service said:


> n4435rc,
> 
> We look forward to your next update! Hopefully this has been resolved for you.
> 
> Sarah (Assisting Stacy), Chevrolet Customer Service


It's been a few weeks since my last post on this. Now I have driven in some 0 degree F temps. Still extremely slow to heat up after the thermostat replacement. I keep heater fan on low until DIC at 180, gauge goes to normal mark. I can still bring the temp down to the 160's with fan on high. That is in the first 8 miles of around 50mph. Then the next leg of 25 miles at 65mph, it will make it to 223 if fan is on 3. I think it helped a small amount but I have noticed that the temp is more stable with going up and down hills. I can live with it with the heated seats and later you can cook yourself out. It seems to me that the engine is in a catch 22 for a while during the warm up. I think it is in rich mixture mode to heat up the cat. converter, but a rich mixture cools down any engine. Just ask anyone who has flown a small airplane you will be told that you can cool the engine on climbout by a rich mixture. Later when the cat. converter is hot, the mixture can lean out and engine stays a lot hotter. Now I try to keep the heater down longer to give the engine the most opportunity to heat up quick for the best mileage. Believe me it is much lower in the very cold weather anyway.
Any thoughts on this? especially anyone with cat. converter operation experience.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

n4435rc said:


> Any thoughts on this? especially anyone with cat. converter operation experience.


No real cat converter experience, but I'd say your thinking is on track. I'm not sure how long the car stays running rich, and whether or not it switches at a specific temp or just gradually leans out as temps climb, but I seem to notice my instantaneous mileage readout "normalizing" not long after the needle starts to climb.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

n4435rc said:


> It's been a few weeks since my last post on this. Now I have driven in some 0 degree F temps. Still extremely slow to heat up after the thermostat replacement. I keep heater fan on low until DIC at 180, gauge goes to normal mark. I can still bring the temp down to the 160's with fan on high. That is in the first 8 miles of around 50mph. Then the next leg of 25 miles at 65mph, it will make it to 223 if fan is on 3. I think it helped a small amount but I have noticed that the temp is more stable with going up and down hills. I can live with it with the heated seats and later you can cook yourself out. It seems to me that the engine is in a catch 22 for a while during the warm up. I think it is in rich mixture mode to heat up the cat. converter, but a rich mixture cools down any engine. Just ask anyone who has flown a small airplane you will be told that you can cool the engine on climbout by a rich mixture. Later when the cat. converter is hot, the mixture can lean out and engine stays a lot hotter. Now I try to keep the heater down longer to give the engine the most opportunity to heat up quick for the best mileage. Believe me it is much lower in the very cold weather anyway.
> Any thoughts on this? especially anyone with cat. converter operation experience.



I've also noticed similar behavior to this operating mode mentioned above. It seems like as heat is used you drive down engine temperatures potentially causing a rich condition. It seems when I use the heat really hard it effects overall milage. Without a scan tool to confirm fuel trims this is just a guess.

I'm guessing the Powertrain module is targeting a cat converter temperature, using heat drives down coolant temperature, causing engine to go rich to heat cat converter, causing us even more milage decrease from what is seen in colder temperatures vs. summer.


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

I wish this thread had been around when I was looking to purchase my Cruze, as I would not have bought it living in Michigan It completely sucks driving in the winter due to the warmup issue. It doesn't reach full operating temp unless it is over 30 degrees F out. Driving in the teens and less is just miserable, I have to wear a winter jack, gloves, hat just to keep warm. My car doesn't warm up enough to get an decent heat into the cabin.

Stacy had someone from GM contact me, but they really didn't care or want to do anything about it

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-engine-technical-discussion/10971-2-stuck-thermostats-row.html


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I drive in Wisconsin & the U.P. of Michigan & have no issues what so ever with how this car warms up even when below zero. I have what I would call excessive heat, I can never run the cars hot/cold dial above 1-3 o'clock position or my skin feels like it will melt off. My car is fully warmed in 10-15minutes of driving. 

I also know that all cars, especially with small engines take forever to warm up if you are using a high fan speed before the engine is warmed up. I asked you in the other thread but you never said, have you tried leaving the fan speed on 1 or 2 for the first 10minutes of driving? 

I use defrost only setting on fan speed 2 & after ten minutes turn the fan to speed 3 & defrost + feet. Within another 10 minutes I have to back the fan down to 2 as its getting to hot in my car & usually turn just the defroster back on(so my car is set for the next remote start I do). 

If you are one of those people blasting the fan with a cold engine I must ask why, do you like being cold? do you want to prolong engine warmup?


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

The highest I ever use the fan setting is #2, anything above even at 30 degrees causes the engine temp to drop.

I've tried running without any heat, I can make it about 5 minutes before I have to turn it on to defrost the front window and it still doesn't warm up. I generally leave the fan speed on #1, never blast the heat, the car just can't handle it.

Even coasting in my car will cause the temp to drop, there is a 1 mile downhill into town and my car's engine temp will drop 10-30 degrees depending on the temperature just from coasting into town.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

wetpainted said:


> Even coasting in my car will cause the temp to drop, there is a 1 mile downhill into town and my car's engine temp will drop 10-30 degrees depending on the temperature just from coasting into town.


What engine temps are you running & how long have you been at those temps when that happens? all cars will cool when decelerating downhill, even in the summer time. I noticed this same behavior with my cruze, was warmed up to 220 in about 8minutes of leaving home, then had to go downhill for 2 miles & it was back to 150. within a half mile of that I was back to a steady 220. After that point about 15minutes of driving the temps remain pretty steady. 

Its almost as if when the thermostat initially opens the cold coolant from the radiator super cools the engine. When it happened to me I was at 220degrees after climbing a 300ft hill. I assume the rate the temp was climbing the thermostat opened fully to avoid overheating but with the extremely cold outside temps caused the engine to excessively cool. 

Again when this happened it was within the first 10minutes of driving, my engines temps remain very stable 200-230 after 15mintues of driving. Instead of just lowering your fan speed try moving the hot/cold knob to the 2 o'clock position, maybe that's the difference I am seeing. I guess it could make sense that demanding full hot could pull to much heat off the engine.


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

This is hill is ~15-20 minutes into my drive depending on the roads. Temp is in the 150-160s when below 15 degress, ~180 when over 20 degrees


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

wetpainted said:


> This is hill is ~15-20 minutes into my drive depending on the roads. Temp is in the 150-160s when below 15 degress, ~180 when over 20 degrees


That does seem a bit low for that long of a drive, are you idling the car at all? when below 20degrees outside I always remote start my car for 4-6minutes, I am fully warmed up within 10-15minutes of driving that way. 

I'm just trying to understand what the heck the difference could be since I am driving in the same cold temps & not having a problem with little or no heat. Honestly I would bust out the cardboard & zip ties to block lower grill before I ever dealt with no heat. 

Just to verify any differences, I have a 1LT automatic with the RS package & have had the recall lower shield cut done. I only use fan speed 2 & heat dial at 2 o'clock until warmed with the defrost only setting. My car is completely stock & I run premium gas only & use dexos dealer fill oil.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Even on the coldest of days 0 to -10 degrees F) I can get heat within 5 miles. For the first 5 miles, I leave the fan on 1, or even off, if I can. By then, coolant temp is 180 to 200 degrees and the temperature gauge is just below the halfway mark. 

At this point in my drive, I start heading down a long hill, 1 to 2 miles, depending on which way I go. The coolant temperature does indeed go down a bit at the beginning of the hill, but whether this is because the engine is not working as hard, or the thermostat has opened up, or both, I do not know.

In any case, leaving the fan setting at 1 or 2 results in plenty of heat within the first 10 minutes if everything is working properly. An iron block engine will take longer to heat up than an aluminum one, but once heated up, it will retain the heat better. If you are turning up your fan to 3 or 4 within the first 10 minutes, you are not doing your engine any favors. It will not run as efficiently and will not warm up properly. If you must, idling your car for five minutes before you leave, while burning gas, will help speed up this process a little.

I have also had the engine shield modification performed, and I have not blocked off the grill opening in any way.


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

UpstateNYBill said:


> Even on the coldest of days 0 to -10 degrees F) I can get heat within 5 miles. For the first 5 miles, I leave the fan on 1, or even off, if I can. By then, coolant temp is 180 to 200 degrees and the temperature gauge is just below the halfway mark.


That simply does not happen for me. It takes that long to get the engine to about 120-130 F where I then turn on the fan for the heater. In that 5 minutes or so, it gets me out of the middle of my neighborhood where the speed limit is 25mph. 

One thing to point out about the 1.4T engine is that the block is not solid cast iron. The Ecotec 1.4L turbo's cylinder block is made of strong gray cast iron, with five reinforced main bearings. The block offers excellent thermal properties that suit the cylinder pressure and loads generated by a turbocharger system. *To minimize weight, it features hollow-frame construction, making it about 20 percent lighter than a conventional casting. *


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

wetpainted, dont worry about what spacedout or anyone else says to you, ITS NOT YOUR FAULT A 20K CAR WILL NOT WARM UP. you shouldnt have to go through 10 different things to try to get heat from your car but with some cruzes and driving you in fact do.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Fact is I only posted what I do since I have no issues at all. I generically stated that my car is fully warmed up in 10-15minutes even on the coldest days, actually when I timed it I'm up to 220 in 8-10 minutes no matter what I have done. 

Seems that there has to be something else wrong with your car, your driving style/habits or the settings you are using for heat. Why would some of us cold weather cruze drivers have no issue at all?


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

Some days, I take my kids to school and I watch the temp display on the DIC, not the gauge. I'll let the car idle only long enough to drop off the high idle down to normal RPM. It's approximately 2 miles to the school from my house, and if I drive in a somewhat normal/reserved fashion, I notice that the temp gets up to about 145-155 on that short jaunt. Once I stop to let the kids out of the car, the temp actually DROPS while the car is just idling! So, I'd say if you're doing some stop-n-go driving that could be part of the problem. If not, try keeping the RPMs above 2000 if you can by shifting the tranny yourself if it's an automatic. You might also want to try getting a lower temp thermostat for the coolant, but I've seen multiple places stating not to go below 175 degrees on this particular engine (and I'm not sure why). Since I normally drive at highway speeds for the majority of my daily commute, the car warms up quickly enough for my liking, and if you accelerate in a spirited fashion, it'll heat up even more quickly. Takes my 2012 Eco roughly 6-8 miles of driving at highway speed to get up to about 180, even on really cold days! I've noticed that it doesn't matter a whole lot if I let the car idle 5 mins or just long enough to drop off to 950 RPM from fast idle ... it warms up just the same, or at least I get no noticeable difference in time to warm up.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

jdubb11 said:


> wetpainted, dont worry about what spacedout or anyone else says to you, ITS NOT YOUR FAULT A 20K CAR WILL NOT WARM UP. you shouldnt have to go through 10 different things to try to get heat from your car but with some cruzes and driving you in fact do.


Exactly. Those mean people. How dare they.
I understand about the thermostats, but have you taken it in for this yet? It sounds like a possible partial plug of the heater core, heater hose or one of the outlets/inlets. 
Think about this. At -18 degrees, if the coolant is only at 130 degrees, your only going to get roughly 30-40 degree air temps(will vary from vehicle to vehicle and might not be that much). It won't feel warm at these temps. Heater cores are not 90% efficient.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

spaycace said:


> You might also want to try getting a lower temp thermostat for the coolant, but I've seen multiple places stating not to go below 175 degrees on this particular engine (and I'm not sure why).


Not quite sure what you're talking about here... the 1.4T has an electronic flow control valve, not a traditional thermostat. The ECU determines the operating temperature of the engine by opening and closing the valve as necessary.


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Fact is I only posted what I do since I have no issues at all. I generically stated that my car is fully warmed up in 10-15minutes even on the coldest days, actually when I timed it I'm up to 220 in 8-10 minutes no matter what I have done.
> 
> Seems that there has to be something else wrong with your car, your driving style/habits or the settings you are using for heat. Why would some of us cold weather cruze drivers have no issue at all?


I really wish I didn't have these issues, but I have had it to the dealership and has a mechanic I trust confirm I am not doing anything wrong, it is an issue with the car itself. He took a brand new 2013 Cruze off the lot and got it to do the same thing my car does.



bryanakron40 said:


> Exactly. Those mean people. How dare they.
> I understand about the thermostats, but have you taken it in for this yet? It sounds like a possible partial plug of the heater core, heater hose or one of the outlets/inlets.
> Think about this. At -18 degrees, if the coolant is only at 130 degrees, your only going to get roughly 30-40 degree air temps(will vary from vehicle to vehicle and might not be that much). It won't feel warm at these temps. Heater cores are not 90% efficient.


I've taken it in twice, the first time they replaced the thermostat since my symptoms seem exactly like that. The second time, they confirmed the thermostat is staying completely closed, it's an issue with the car. The huge problem for me is what you stated in your last sentance, it doesn't warm up enough in extremely cold temps to even defrost my front window. The air that does get put out is just luke warm.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

spaycace said:


> Once I stop to let the kids out of the car, the temp actually DROPS while the car is just idling! So, I'd say if you're doing some stop-n-go driving that could be part of the problem.


This. The 1.4L engine in the Cruze is very efficient at saving fuel. Less fuel is burned, less heat is generated. Try idling your engine in cold winter weather, and it will never reach full operating temperature.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

I believe what everyone is complaining about here is actually the EFFICIENCY of the engine. Let me explain.

The heat we get from the engine to heat the car with is a byproduct of the engine's power output. Even the most efficient engines only convert up to 35% of gasoline's energy into vehicle motion, the other 65%+ is being converted into heat. Roughly 35% of that heat is lost in the exhaust, and roughly 30% of it is dissipated through the cooling system. We heat the interior with "waste" heat from the engine.

The Cruze has a 1.4L engine, which is only 70% of the size of a more conventional 2.0L engine. When it is idling, it probably uses about 70% of the fuel a 2.0L engine would use, and therefore would have about 70% of the waste heat in the cooling system of a 2.0L engine. If a 2.0L engine has "barely" enough waste heat to satisfy the driver's demand (a condition the driver would not be aware of) then it should come as no surprise that a 1.4L engine would fall short.

EVERY engine, regardless of its size, cools down when the heater is used. On a very large engine this might not mean a reduction in coolant temperature measured in the cylinder head, but it would mean less hot coolant flowing through the rad to cool down. Though not possible with today's technology, if that large engine was to somehow be engineered so that its efficiency at idle was such that it was only burning the same amount of fuel as the 1.4L engine in the Cruze, you would have the exact same issue of the engine not producing enough "waste" heat to satisfy the demand of some drivers in cold climates.

*I will predict that the issue being discussed here will only spread and become more and more common and severe as our nation presses forward towards the CAFE requirements imposed on car fleets. As cars become more and more efficient, buyers will be forced to choose less efficient cars if they want more "waste" heat to keep them warm in the winter.
*
Using exhaust heat to warm the cabin is another posibility, but no car company has offered this yet as far as I know and it would be fairly expensive to implement safely.

I live in Ottawa, Canada's capital. It is cold here in the winter, morning temps were -30C (-22F) a couple of weeks ago. I drive my Eco MT, currently THE MOST FUEL EFFICIENT GAS POWERED NON-HYBRID HWY MILEAGE CAR YOU CAN BUY in North America. My daily commute is extremely easy on the car (look at my Fuelly sig) and I also drive the car very efficiently. Yes, it takes FOREVER to warm up, and on a cold morning with the heater on I doubt the thermostat ever opens before I get to work. I understand the reasoning for this is basic physics and I don't hold it against the car. Yes, it was designed that way and there's more money in your pocket as a result.

If anything were to change, IMO it should be GM being a little more open about this phenomenon in areas that have cold winter climates, and also that they should offer a more comprehensive block heater option so people can pre-heat their cars (the current oil pan heater keeps oil flowing in extreme cold, but does almost nothing to pre-heat the engine). Installing lower grille louvers on the non-Eco variants could also help with warm-up times. Open-ness about this issue would go a long way since most people simply don't understand the way a car works and will be taken by surprise when experiencing cold weather for the first time.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

UpstateNYBill said:


> This. The 1.4L engine in the Cruze is very efficient at saving fuel. Less fuel is burned, less heat is generated. Try idling your engine in cold winter weather, and it will never reach full operating temperature.


HA! You posted while I was typing! You are right on the "money" (pun intentional).


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I believe what everyone is complaining about here is actually the EFFICIENCY of the engine. Let me explain.
> 
> The heat we get from the engine to heat the car with is a byproduct of the engine's power output. Even the most efficient engines only convert up to 35% of gasoline's energy into vehicle motion, the other 65%+ is being converted into heat. Roughly 35% of that heat is lost in the exhaust, and roughly 30% of it is dissipated through the cooling system. We heat the interior with "waste" heat from the engine.
> 
> ...


Some manufacturers have thought of ways around this.

VW uses an auxilary electric heater in their TDI cars to supplement the heater until the engine warms up. Basically, like a space heater that ran off the alternator.

Our Acura MDX had a coolant pump directly from the rear cylinder head that provided warm water directly to the heater core. Heat was up within 30 seconds of starting the engine.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

This issue has been discussed multiple times in this forum, and really needs to be stickied somehow, along with a procedure to follow so one can determine whether they have a faulty thermostat, or they are setting the fan too high before the engine is warmed up, or whether it is their driving routine that is not allowing the engine to fully warm up.



Blue Angel said:


> HA! You posted while I was typing! You are right on the "money" (pun intentional).


I may have been first, but you had more detail.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Some manufacturers have thought of ways around this.
> 
> VW uses an auxilary electric heater in their TDI cars to supplement the heater until the engine warms up. Basically, like a space heater that ran off the alternator.


Interesting. I wonder how effective this is? It would draw quite a bit of power... and cost in fuel to run as well.



jblackburn said:


> Our Acura MDX had a coolant pump directly from the rear cylinder head that provided warm water directly to the heater core. Heat was up within 30 seconds of starting the engine.


Many vehicles use a similar arrangement, though I was under the impression that this was to keep flow to the heater core above a minimum level when the engine is idling and the natural flow from the water pump dropped. It wouldn't affect the coolant temp or the engine warm-up time, but would maintain a good flow of coolant to the heater core.

On the Cruze this might not help since it would appear most of the waste heat in the cooling system is already being used. Increasing the flow to the heater core might just drop the engine's temperature more.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Interesting. I wonder how effective this is? It would draw quite a bit of power... and cost in fuel to run as well.


Very many European diesels (especially with their small displacements) have an auxilary fuel-burning heater fitted from the factory to provide heat before the engine warms up. The VW electric one serves the same purpose. Diesels take F-O-R-E-V-E-R to warm up.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Fact is I only posted what I do since I have no issues at all. I generically stated that my car is fully warmed up in 10-15minutes even on the coldest days, actually when I timed it I'm up to 220 in 8-10 minutes no matter what I have done.
> 
> Seems that there has to be something else wrong with your car, your driving style/habits or the settings you are using for heat. Why would some of us cold weather cruze drivers have no issue at all?


yes, maybe there is something wrong with some cruzes not getting heat or staying at op temp in city driving, maybe there is no problem at all. calling people "complainers" or saying "those people that wont listen and turn their fans on too early" is not necessary.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Diesels take F-O-R-E-V-E-R to warm up.


Do they? Really?

Mine doesn't take long - but then, I don't live in what any rational creature would term a marginally habitable zone.


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

What is the purpose of the electronically controlled thermostat other than controlling the temperature of the engine such that it is "optimal". Therefore it must control the flow of coolant through the engine block.

*Does it also control the flow of coolant through the heater core?
*
On the driver side, right above my right knee, I can touch a metal part of the heater core. That piece is always burning hot, must be close to 190F for sure. *Is coolant flowing through the heater core all the time?
*


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

gt_cristian said:


> What is the purpose of the electronically controlled thermostat other than controlling the temperature of the engine such that it is "optimal". Therefore it must control the flow of coolant through the engine block.
> 
> *Does it also control the flow of coolant through the heater core?
> *
> ...


I don't think anyone (outside of GM) knows for sure what the ECM controlled thermostat does, why it does what it does, and what all of the results are of what it does. I have read that coolant flows through the heater core all the time, but I'm not sure about that. I thought there was a TSB to install insulation alongside the heater core to reduce the burning of the operator's leg, but I'm not going to try to find it. 

My supposition is that even GM doesn't have a good handle on what the ECM is doing with the thermostat (and other parts of the engine) all of the time. Hence, the A/F smell issues, long warm up times for some folks, and possibly some other engine related issues that have come up. I am wondering how long it will take before the auto industry starts putting out "Service Packs" for their cars to fix known problems. It will likely be a subscription based thing like a software license on your computer program. Just the ramblings of an old Systems Engineer


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Because it allows the engine to work under a variety of temperatures for optimal fuel economy or performance or emissions. 

Heater core gets direct flow from the engine block and water pump at all times. They haven't had cores that are shut off since the 1970s. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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