# First World Problems, Winter Problems...



## Houd (Aug 4, 2012)

Alright so here is my scenario: 

I own a 2012 chevy cruze 6 speed manual transmission. As far as electronics added to the car I had underglow lights inside and out, and a subwoofer. The only engine mod was a drop in k&n air filter.

Problem : For the last couple weeks we have been having very cold weather here in Canada. -20 to -36 degrees Celsius to be precise... Naturally, because of the accumulation of water on the mats and such my windows keep freezing from the inside, even after letting it sit in the garage over the weekend, cleaning the mats and vacuuming the car. *This is problem # 1.
*
*Problem # 2 ,*which is more serious in my opinion is the car's heating system. When driving, the car is incredibly slow to warm up, which is expected in such extreme cold temperatures. However, once the car has heated up and the needle points to half way ( normal, as high as it will go ) I can only run my fan up to the third fan option. If i hit the 4th option which is full blast, it will drop the car's heat from half way to a quarter within a few minutes. This has been going on for the last couple of weeks and I am considering taking it in the dealership so they check out what is going. My air filter is clean, Oil level at 82 % , IS IT NORMAL TO LOSE HEAT as you drive? I have never had this problem with other cars... 

Oh and one more thing, anybody else finds putting the heat on your feet in the cruze f*****g sucks... You have to blast it at 3/4 of the knob just to feel it and by the time you feel it your windows are starting to freeze up... Plus it's been so cold my subwoofer barely works... can barely hear any bass but I checked the sub and it's still kicking, I just assume because of the cold temperature it's not able to do it's job. even after driving for an hour ...

What a pain this winter has been already, PLEASE let me know if you have any tips for any of these complaints.:hope:


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

Im not sure about your first problem. However the car will drop some heat when you have the heater on. If you have it all the way up on heat, it should drop it a bit more. For your fan blowing on your feet...hmm. That's a weird one. You might have something wrong with your HVAC blower motor and fan assembly and/or your climate control unit. Mine works fine in my eco and I haven't noticed any other problems with it yet. Other than that..im not sure what else it could be. Im still new to these cars a little lol. I hope you find out whats going on. The window thing is something definitely strange to me. Ive never heard of that before.


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## APCruze (Mar 7, 2013)

The engine is a small 4 cylinder and does produce a lot of heat, although this is great for fuel economy it is not great for cabin heat. The diesel has the same problem and they added a electric heater. I don't if this is normal since in NC we have our coldest weather now at 20 degrees, but I'm sure some northerners and Canadians will chime in shortly who can probably give you better details.


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

Depends on how fast your driving. We have the same ridiculous temps here in Moncton. 

I take the highway to work. Car will get up to operating temp like that. Come off the highway and drive around town, temp guage drops to 1/4 and less heat. Normal. 

Our Civic does the same thing too.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Windows fogging in extremely low temps would be about par for the course.......of course, much worse if you run the unit in recirculate mode.
But like every other car, the side glass/rear glass is single pane.....the outside is at ambient, the inside isn't much above that and any moisture, especially that which comes off your body and exhaling, is going to condense and frost on the glass.
Again, this will be much worse in recirculate mode.

I agree that the heat outlets at the floor level don't warm the feet very well......seems to be aimed more at the calves.

The temperature drop at low speeds or high fan positions is the nature of a small engine.......you are literally capable of cooling the entire engine at higher fan speeds, and, because you see the gauge drop, this is exactly what is happening.
I might add, your observations are identical to my 2012 eco auto.
Other small engine cars in my past displayed the same characteristics so I am not a stranger to this phenomina.

Tuff it out, only operate it using the outside air......spring is on its way.

Rob


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## 2013LT (Jul 3, 2013)

Mine warms up pretty fast. But I leave the heat off for the first five or so minutes of driving and I keep it one gear higher than what I'd normally drive so the RPMs stay at 1600-2000 or so. The real trick is to leave your heat off though so your not robbing the engine of the little heat it has already produced.


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

If I understand correctly, your floor mats are wet??? Why don't you take them inside overnight to let them "dry" out?


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## Houd (Aug 4, 2012)

@mcg75 : Nice to see someone living close to where I'm at ( Fredericton ) and good to know that I'm not the only one having this problem. I guess because of the engine being so small it is normal. I just wanted to make sure that this was normal... Also my situation is similar to you, I'll be driving on the hwy or 80km/h for a while however I won't lose any heat unless I put the fan up, even if i go in the city...

@robby: I'll have to tuff it out  been doing it for so many years already 

@2013 LT: I have mine running on the first fan position until it is fully warmed up. Only at that point do i put up the fan position to the second option. If i have the cars heat completely off here until the car warms up the inside glass of the car would be an icicle and I wouldn't be able to see anything. 

@DannyS: As I mentioned in the op I have done that already, cleaned them. vacuumed the car.. there is moisture in the car I can't get out. This is normal in my books since it's happened with my old car as well however never as bad as the cruze. I shut off my car for 5 mins after it being completely warmed up and come back to patches forming all over the place...


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

Hey, it helps the car warming if You cover the mask with one of these Maskisuoja Chevrolet Cruze | SVH Oy
Those mask covers can be used below 0C and they prevent the engine room cooling so much when driving.
Cheers !
Risto


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Normally I leave my fan on 2 until my car is warmed for 6-10minutes and always use the defroster setting. My 2012 still has the digital engine temp readout on the DIC, with the -18F degrees I was seeing yesterday morning idling my car lost 10degrees(from 160 to 150) idling for 5 minutes. I drove to another location 4 blocks away, was up to 175, turned fan speed to 4(max for 2012), within 2 minutes of idling engine had dropped back to 150 degrees. 

seems once I can get the motor above 210 degrees it never drops below 175 even when idling. it does take 15-20miles of driving to fully warm the engine when this cold, slightly faster if I use remote start.


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## WhiteAndBright (Mar 4, 2013)

X has some stuff made by Amsoil that you put in the over flow tank that will allow your car to warm up fast and have hear quicker.. Read his post and review.. But like others have said with it being that cold our little motors just don't produce that much heat..


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Okay, I have the exact same heating problem as you do. Spent another day today at the dealer and they changed the thermostat yet again. This is the second thermostat. They test drove it and told me that it should be okay this time. When I got in the car, the temp gauge was at half.....then I drove the car and turned the heat up. The temp slowly dropped below a quarter and the heat began to get poorer. I have remote start on this car and it can run twenty minutes and the gauge does not move. 

This is going to become a big issue for anyone in a cold climate.

I have also had the rear chocks, front struts and transmission seal replaced. Car has only 9000 kilometers on it.

This is a great site and I wish I was here to brag about my Cruze, but I may have gotten a lemon.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

-20 to -36C is going to be cold enough to cool the motor down with the heater core. That is pretty darn cold. 

Colt45, what has the temperature been like around where you live?

The product others mentioned is the AMSOIL Coolant Boost:
AMSOIL Dominator® Coolant Boost

The Coolant Boost adds surfectants to the antifreeze, which helps transfer the heat much faster between the metal and the antifreeze/coolant. Engines typically run a good 35-40 degrees hotter than the coolant due to limitations of heat transfer. This will improve that heat transfer and get you heat in the cabin about 35-45% more quickly than before. It's enough to make a difference, and will allow you to have heat in your car with lower engine temperatures. 

Past that, I would recommend using recirculate mode with the windshield defroster on.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

To help dry the air in your car use the A/C (with temp knob on heat). This will pass the air over the A/C condenser coils. Even with heat this will dry the air and the moisture should drain out of the A/C ducting.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> To help dry the air in your car use the A/C (with temp knob on heat). This will pass the air over the A/C condenser coils. Even with heat this will dry the air and the moisture should drain out of the A/C ducting.


Won't run at those temps. Too cold for the AC compressor to run; it'll just freeze up the evaporator core.



Colt45 said:


> Okay, I have the exact same heating problem as you do. Spent another day today at the dealer and they changed the thermostat yet again. This is the second thermostat. They test drove it and told me that it should be okay this time. When I got in the car, the temp gauge was at half.....then I drove the car and turned the heat up. The temp slowly dropped below a quarter and the heat began to get poorer. I have remote start on this car and it can run twenty minutes and the gauge does not move.
> 
> This is going to become a big issue for anyone in a cold climate.
> 
> ...


Idling the Cruze motor for heat, or expecting it to keep heat when idling is a futile attempt. +15F this morning, let mine idle for 5 minutes while scraping the windows (and it was defrosting the ice on the back one). The coolant temp got up to a whole 75 degrees (heater/defroster was OFF).

As most people said - running the car above 2000 RPM with the heat off will warm it up fairly quickly. Past 1/4 on the temp gauge, turn the heater on up to 3. 4 is useless - even on the highway, my engine can't make heat fast enough for that fan speed unless the car is FULLY warmed up.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> -20 to -36C is going to be cold enough to cool the motor down with the heater core. That is pretty darn cold.
> 
> Colt45, what has the temperature been like around where you live?
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply. It is very cold, -35-ish. I have been driving with the window open a crack to allow fresh dry air into the car to reduce humidity. I also use the AC, but I am not sure if it kicks in in this cold. Recirc will cause ice in this climate. Outside air is the only way to go.

Bottom line here is this car is over-cooling, much like a big rig as they have huge rads to help them in the desert, but that freeze the trucks in our areas. Not designed to withstand the Canadian or Alaskan climate. GM will never admit that as there are relatively few cars here versus California or New York where these problems will not surface. The only way around this, as pathetic as it may seem, is to cover the radiator at least partially. Much like we did years ago on cars and diesel trucks. I can do this myself, but will force the dealer to do it so that it does not void my warranty.

Folks from out east will forget about this problem as the weather warms. Folks in the north here will just have to suffer.
GM should provide some retrofit for this, but I guarantee they will not. Quite sad really as this is the first domestic car I have owned in 15 years. I thought I would give GM a chance again after having been loyal to them until the disaster cars they built in the late nineties.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

This is where the entire industry is going, so don't pin it on just GM. Small turbo engines. It's a 1.4L with especially low friction piston rings. This engine won't create much heat at all. It's a trade-off between efficiency and heat. A more efficient engine will produce less heat. That's just how it is. 

I recommend covering the front grilles and running the defroster. I have been doing the same in single digits (Fahrenheit), which is fairly cold and well below freezing, and it has been working well. The AMSOIL coolant boost helps get the heat to the cabin faster which has been a welcome comfort on the coldest mornings. 

Sent from mobile.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The compressor will come on as soon as the engine coolant is warmed up sufficently, which takes all of about 30-45 seconds. The compressor coils are directly over the cabin heater core for this reason. This design allows for the windshield defroster to dry the air even in sub-zero temperatures.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> The compressor will come on as soon as the engine coolant is warmed up sufficently, which takes all of about 30-45 seconds. The compressor coils are directly over the cabin heater core for this reason. This design allows for the windshield defroster to dry the air even in sub-zero temperatures.


Like any other vehicle, straight from the owners manual...



> If the fan is
> turned off or the outside
> temperature falls below freezing, the
> air conditioning compressor will
> not work


In sub-zero temps, it just blows cold outside air at it.

Edit: to add to this, the heater core and evaporator are isolated from each other completely by an air mix door that blends the two together when you play with the temp dial. After all, there's no point in trying to make the AC fight the always 180F air coming from the heater core in the summer.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> This is where the entire industry is going, so don't pin it on just GM. Small turbo engines. It's a 1.4L with especially low friction piston rings. This engine won't create much heat at all. It's a trade-off between efficiency and heat. A more efficient engine will produce less heat. That's just how it is.
> 
> I recommend covering the front grilles and running the defroster. I have been doing the same in single digits (Fahrenheit), which is fairly cold and well below freezing, and it has been working well. The AMSOIL coolant boost helps get the heat to the cabin faster which has been a welcome comfort on the coldest mornings.
> 
> Sent from mobile.


Maybe so, but there must still be a fix. my previous car was a Corolla with a 1.8 liter and the heat was awesome and it warmed up quickly. The difference in the amount of heat and warm up time cannot be completely associated with the displacement. The Cruze has basically no heat, while the Corolla had too much heat and often had to have the temp and the fan turned way down even in extreme temps.

There has to be some way to reprogram this computer to adjust when the thermo opens and closes based on outside temp. GM just has to care enough to admit the issue and correct it. Having searched this forum and seeing that "Stacy" has seen the issue since it was first reported here a couple of years ago, I have little doubt that GM will be addressing this.

I love this car, but would strongly recommend anyone in a northern climate not even consider it. I love the safety features, and since I cannot see out of the car I am especially glad that the safety features are there.

Thanks for all the replies, folks!


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Frankly, when you can cool the engine using heater fan speeds you can rest assured the thermostat is likely not even opening....or if it is, it is just a small percentage.
Saying that, you can put anything you want in front of radiator.....if the thermostat is hardly opening there isn't much coolant going to radiator....its all running through the heater core.

As others have stated, the reason these engines are so efficient is because the heat energy is used to move the car and very little is shed off into the cooling system and exaust......this is a good thing for mileage a not so much for the heating system.

I believe the future HVAC designs will become full electric, not unlike the Volt or any full electric vehicle......you can see the manufacturers heading in this direction when the Diesel Cruze was introduced using elements of the Volt electric heating system to augment the conventional hot water system.

In the meantime, those of us in the extreme weather regions will talk about poor heat production every winter.

BTW....they are forcasting -15f (what is that....about -35c I think) tonight.....gonna be a chilly Cruze cruise tomorrow!

Rob


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Robby said:


> Frankly, when you can cool the engine using heater fan speeds you can rest assured the thermostat is likely not even opening....or if it is, it is just a small percentage.
> Saying that, you can put anything you want in front of radiator.....if the thermostat is hardly opening there isn't much coolant going to radiator....its all running through the heater core.
> 
> As others have stated, the reason these engines are so efficient is because the heat energy is used to move the car and very little is shed off into the cooling system and exaust......this is a good thing for mileage a not so much for the heating system.
> ...


Thanks Rob. This is why the dealer changed the thermostat for the second time. That is what they thought too. That did not work. Same problem.

Seems my Cruze may have more cooling issues than just the built-in problems. Any ideas as what else I could ask the dealer to check?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Colt45 said:


> Thanks Rob. This is why the dealer changed the thermostat for the second time. That is what they thought too. That did not work. Same problem.
> 
> Seems my Cruze may have more cooling issues than just the built-in problems. Any ideas as what else I could ask the dealer to check?


Well, based on your description I believe your vehicle is operating the same as all the rest of ours.

Currently, I suspect your dealer exchanged the thermostat hoping you may get slightly better heat production but as you said, no real improvement is noted.

Myself, and others in the cold regions all seem to agree that around town driving, once finally up to operating temperature (an eternity in itself it seems) won't provide great heat beyond position 2 on the earlier four speed fan positions.

When I'm on the highway, which is very infrequent, I can run in the third fan position without the gauge dropping and eventually I must turn it down....it'll run you out of the car.
But, once back down off the road, I learned to drop the fan back to two or I'll suck the heat back out of the engine.

I suspect your experience matches mine.

On the other side of the coin, wife has a 08 V-6 Malibu LTZ and my other vehicle is a Jeep Commander....with two heaters.
Either vehicle will run you out of it when the heaters are in any fan position.....but you pay at the pump.
The Malibu can eek out about 28 mpg on a good day, the Jeep......is a Jeep.....that ole V-8 rewards with 17/18 mpg on a good day......but, like I said, good heaters X2.

Some years back, I snagged a 3cyl Metro......base base base, surprised it didn't have bicycle pedals.
That itty bitty 1.0 L engine displayed the exact heat making properties of the Cruze.....great on the highway, but around town I often contemplated how to build a bonfire inside the car.
A stoplight would pull coolant temp from half gauge to quarter in under two minutes.

Regardless, I currently don't think there is much a shop can do for this design/displacement vehicle.

You may have noticed a valued member and supplier of Amsoil products is running a experiment using a different type coolant that appears to be able to shed heat from the engine and into the heater core more effectivly than the factory coolant.
So far, his results are positive.....you may want to moniter his progress (Extreme) and if his results continue to be positive you could consider a change yourself.

Good luck!
Rob


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## Garandman (Dec 31, 2013)

When I lived in NH and had a 4 CYL VW, I had to block of 1/3rd of the radiator with cardboard or the car would cool down on the highway.

if you have condensation in the car, a quartz heater with the window cracked open will take care of it but it can take most of a day.


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## marden64 (Dec 1, 2013)

Robby said:


> Some years back, I snagged a 3cyl Metro......base base base, surprised it didn't have bicycle pedals.
> That itty bitty 1.0 L engine displayed the exact heat making properties of the Cruze.....great on the highway, but around town I often contemplated how to build a bonfire inside the car.
> A stoplight would pull coolant temp from half gauge to quarter in under two minutes


I had one for 14 years and loved it. It did get cold in the car until you hit the highway and then things were fine with it.

In both my Golf and Cruze, there's a fine line between being to hot and to cold. It look me close to a whole winter to see where that line was at in the Golf. Now that I have the Cruze, I have to start over again to see where that line is at.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks Rob...I would rather get 5 MPG and not freeze and be able to see out of the car though. Live and learn I guess.


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

You have a turbo, right? I know the quickest way to warm up a turbo motor is to get into boost. Sustained boosting really heats up a motor!


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Danny5 said:


> You have a turbo, right? I know the quickest way to warm up a turbo motor is to get into boost. Sustained boosting really heats up a motor!


I have turbo....and ice covered streets. Turbo boost here would result in a tragic accident. Not sure if I am that pissed off. LOL!!


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

LOL, LOL,

Yeah, that'll fix it......hammer it........nice and toasty as it winds itself around a tree.......that little ding in the quarter panel will be long forgotten.

Nah.....I don't like that approach either.....

On a more logical note though.....I wonder if one of those little cigarette lighter plug heater thingys would be of value?......might help if the circuit has enouph capacity.....sitting on the passenger side floor.....obviously when there is no passenger.

Just musing a bit,

Rob


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Robby said:


> LOL, LOL,
> 
> Yeah, that'll fix it......hammer it........nice and toasty as it winds itself around a tree.......that little ding in the quarter panel will be long forgotten.
> 
> ...


Well, they brag how safe these cars are....so maybe an oak tree at 50 paces will solve the issue.

As for auxiliary heat, I thought about that. Had one in my 76 Camaro and my 80 Buick. Good to see GM addressed this issue. LOL!!


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## warplane95 (May 29, 2013)

Happy to not have a spark 

3-4 day ago, we have -40 celcius, no way i can go over the quarter of the temp gauge at 100kmh for 10min (start my car 15min before). 

North New Brunswick here. 

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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Colt45 said:


> Good to see GM addressed this issue. LOL!!


I really don't think there is an issue here to address, its just the way small displacement engines are. I would rather have a car that take a bit longer to warm in the extreme cold of winter than have a car that overheats in the summer. 

With that said GM should start putting the auxiliary electric heater from the cruze diesel in all cruze models, at least make it an option.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

spacedout said:


> I really don't think there is an issue here to address, its just the way small displacement engines are. I would rather have a car that take a bit longer to warm in the extreme cold of winter than have a car that overheats in the summer.
> 
> With that said GM should start putting the auxiliary electric heater from the cruze diesel in all cruze models, at least make it an option.


Yup, OPs post sounds like a Cruze to me. The thermostat isn't opening and there's nothing actually wrong with the car - just a little engine that sounds like it's never being revved above 2k due to the icy conditions. The thermostat is never opening, it has no reason to. 

I haven't seen complaints from 1.8 LS owners (for obvious reasons - more displacement, less efficient engine, more heat). 


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Then this car should not be sold in northern climates. I just booked a rental car for a highway trip I need to make on the weekend....one that I cannot make in my brand new car due to this issue. For you guys who seldom get cold weather it is not an issue. For us who have six months of winter, this car is a total waste of money. Not acceptable. Simply not acceptable. GM needs to do something for their customers here. I still cannot believe that I have to rent a car and leave my new car at home. No choice as this car is unsafe, plain and simple.

Ultimately I will have to take my lumps and trade it in for half of what I paid. It will not be at a GM dealer either.

My mother is taking delivery of her new Corolla today. I guess we will see how the heat is in that car. Originally she wanted a Cruze like mine, but I said no way!

Thanks to all who replied in this thread. Soon your weather will warm up and you guys will be fine. For us in Minnesota, North Dakota, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta.....tough $hit.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> Then this car should not be sold in northern climates. I just booked a rental car for a highway trip I need to make on the weekend....one that I cannot make in my brand new car due to this issue. For you guys who seldom get cold weather it is not an issue. For us who have six months of winter, this car is a total waste of money. Not acceptable. Simply not acceptable. GM needs to do something for their customers here. I still cannot believe that I have to rent a car and leave my new car at home. No choice as this car is unsafe, plain and simple.
> 
> Ultimately I will have to take my lumps and trade it in for half of what I paid. It will not be at a GM dealer either.
> 
> ...


It's -14 degrees F right now (-25C). I have an itch to start my car and drive down the street just to see how long it takes to warm up with the coolant boost I have in there while I'm still on break. So far, I've been down to 0 degrees F (-18C) and the car provided enough heat with recirculate and defrost on without fogging up all the windows.


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## Houd (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm happy to see that I am not the only one who was having this problem... subwoofer came back to life, noticed it had ice on the amplifier... unplugged it, waiting for the temp to go up to -20 and it came back to life. Weather is now between 0 and -20 so the windows are not freezing up AS BAD as before, however still the same issues with the heating system ( which I now understand is not the best for this climate ) , live and learn I guess, doesn't seem like anything we can do about it. Oh, on a side note, when I took the carpets in the house and let them thaw ( i really mean thaw... ) there was an unreal amount of water that came out. Also when vacuming the car I literaly broke pieces of ice scattered around the carpet area... canadian winter 1 , cruze 0...


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Xtreme.....-35 Celsius here.....winter average here is -30. Please let me know how that stuff works!

Need to do something before I take a $10,000 loss on this car.

Thank you!!


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Colt45 said:


> Then this car should not be sold in northern climates. I just booked a rental car for a highway trip I need to make on the weekend....one that I cannot make in my brand new car due to this issue. For you guys who seldom get cold weather it is not an issue. For us who have six months of winter, this car is a total waste of money. Not acceptable.


Have you driven your car on the highway when its this cold yet? Sure these small engines take longer to warm up, in the city idling will actually start cooling off, but out on the highway I have never had a problem with heat. It does take longer to fully warm even on the highway when this cold, but 15-20minutes my motor is running the usual 217 degrees. 

I live in Wisconsin, believe me its freakin cold out & will be for many more months. It was -21F this AM when I remote started my car, 9 minutes later when I went out my motor(idling) was up to 110F. Drove 4 blocks and was up to 150 and was already getting some heat.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Houd said:


> I'm happy to see that I am not the only one who was having this problem... subwoofer came back to life, noticed it had ice on the amplifier... unplugged it, waiting for the temp to go up to -20 and it came back to life. Weather is now between 0 and -20 so the windows are not freezing up AS BAD as before, however still the same issues with the heating system ( which I now understand is not the best for this climate ) , live and learn I guess, doesn't seem like anything we can do about it. Oh, on a side note, when I took the carpets in the house and let them thaw ( i really mean thaw... ) there was an unreal amount of water that came out. Also when vacuming the car I literaly broke pieces of ice scattered around the carpet area... canadian winter 1 , cruze 0...



Houd....the car should not be sold in Canada. You will make it through as this is just a cold snap for you. For us here in the west, this car has been useless since November and will be until April. Did you take it to the dealer and have them check it? Maybe yours is just a thermostat or something. Probably not, but it is a warranty item and will cost you nothing.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

spacedout said:


> Have you driven your car on the highway when its this cold yet? Sure these small engines take longer to warm up, in the city idling will actually start cooling off, but out on the highway I have never had a problem with heat. It does take longer to fully warm even on the highway when this cold, but 15-20minutes my motor is running the usual 217 degrees.
> 
> I live in Wisconsin, believe me its freakin cold out & will be for many more months. It was -21F this AM when I remote started my car, 9 minutes later when I went out my motor(idling) was up to 110F. Drove 4 blocks and was up to 150 and was already getting some heat.


Yup. Freezes solid inside. You have to put defrost on and open a window to clear the windshield enough to see out of. Can't see a **** thing out the sides though. Temp gauge will bottom out on the highway in ten or fifteen minutes. Waiting at an on ramp or a light on the highway and there is zero heat.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> Yup. Freezes solid inside. You have to put defrost on and open a window to clear the windshield enough to see out of. Can't see a **** thing out the sides though. Temp gauge will bottom out on the highway in ten or fifteen minutes. Waiting at an on ramp or a light on the highway and there is zero heat.


Are you running the heater on the highest fan speed?


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> Are you running the heater on the highest fan speed?


I was as this is what I have done for the past 30 years and in the eighty (yes, eighty) cars I have owned. I have tried now lowering the fan speed, but then the car itself gets so cold the windows frost up anyway. The thermostat software needs to be updated or flashed in order to keep it from opening prematurely. Surely their is enough tech in this car for it to know the outside temp and react differently.

There is no doubt that the high fan speed will drop that gauge faster than the rad does. I tried it and saw it myself. Which is something I have never seen. My 1974 Datsun B-210 had way better heat, and the same gas mileage as this car. LOL!!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> The thermostat software needs to be updated or flashed in order to keep it from opening prematurely. Surely their is enough tech in this car for it to know the outside temp and react differently.


We need to clear one thing up here... the thermostat in the Cruze is a good old mechanical wax pellet thermostat like any other car has, with the exception that it has an extremely high opening temperature of ~221F compared to most cars that have thermostats that open around 200F or less. This means the thermostat stays shut completely until coolant temp exceeds 221F. It is not fully open until ~239F (IIRC).

The "electronic" part of our thermostats is simply a heating coil that surrounds the wax pellet. When the ECU commands (under heavy loads with coolant at full temp), electric current is passed through the coil and the wax pellet is heated to a higher temperature than by the coolant itself.  This drops the thermostat opening temperature down to ~185F (IIRC).

The Cruze has an extremely small, extremely efficient engine. The more efficient the engine the less waste heat it generates. The less waste heat generated, teh less heat you have for heating the cabin.

Just so all you 'Mericans know how cold we're talking here, -36C is the same as -33F. BLOOOOOOOODY cold. It gets that cold in the Northern Central States, but most of you "Southerners" don't know what cold really is!  Heck, it barely ever gets that cold here in Ottawa...

Suggestions for improving your winter heat:

1. Use the Oil Pan Heater. It won't do a lot, but every bit helps. Also, you should have no business starting a car with oil at -36C! 

2. Block your grille. If your car isn't an Eco, block either the upper or lower grille completely, but not both. If it is an Eco, you can block the upper grille completely if it's that cold out, the lower one will open if it needs to for cooling. I recommend NOT keeping the grille blocks in place at temps above freezing.

3. Before taking a $10,000 hit on a trade in, why not at least try a $20 solution? XR has had good results with Amsoil Coolant Boost. Shoot him a PM or find a local dealer. I wouldn't tell your dealership about it, just in case they get funny about your warranty:

AMSOIL Dominator® Coolant Boost

4. Try some rubber floor mats. You can dump the water out of them when it builds up, this way you don't have water evaporating out of your carpet mats every time you put some heat on the floor. Floor liners also work well for this, Husky and WeatherTech make them and both get good reviews. Oh, and knock the snow and slush off your boots before swinging them into the car if you don't already do so.



Colt45 said:


> My 1974 Datsun B-210 had way better heat, and the same gas mileage as this car.


Your old Datsun was a very TINY car that weighed as much as 1300 lbs _less_ than the Cruze. The engine was nowhere near as efficient, it just had a lot less work to do. The fact it had so much leftover heat to keep you comfy is a good hint. The laws of physics are a b!tch. The best car heater I ever had was my 1985 Cadillac Sedan DeVille, a "high tech" aluminum block/iron head 4.1L V8 that made an astounding 135 HP (four fewer than the 1/3 as big 1.4L Cruze). The heater in that car was at full song within a few minutes even at -20C. As the others said, I paid at the pump. 

Don't get me wrong... I'm not driving around all toasty in my Eco, far from it! This car doesn't put out much heat, especially on my super easy 70 km/h cruise into work. It's about 23km one way and I'm over half way there before my temp gauge gets to the half mark, and that's using the heater on fan speed 1 and the temp dial at 12-o-clock; just enough to keep ice off the windows. I use my oil pan heater and have an upper grille block. Ottawa isn't quite as cold as what you guys have been getting, but I'm surviving. I understand the physics at work.

FWIW, my last car was a 1.9L Saturn Coupe that took about as long as the Cruze to start pumping heat. It also displayed the same (annoying) behaviour of interior window fogging. Some cars are worse for that than others and I can't figure out why. I even have tinted windows which would make them slightly more thermally efficient and still have the issue.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> FWIW, my last car was a 1.9L Saturn Coupe that took about as long as the Cruze to start pumping heat. It also displayed the same (annoying) behaviour of interior window fogging. Some cars are worse for that than others and I can't figure out why. I even have tinted windows which would make them slightly more thermally efficient and still have the issue.


In college, had a 2L Honda, a friend had a 1.7L Honda, one a 1.8L Acura, and another a 1.9L Saturn. They were ALL slow to make heat in the winter, but I think the Saturn was the worst...so much so that I always thought it had a busted thermostat. We never saw temps there below single digits, though, and also went out and jumped right on the highway since there was nothing else around for miles.

I actually think the Cruze warms up faster than my Honda did - that was like 15 minutes before anything came out of the vents...with the stupid thing buzzing away at a 1500/2500 RPM idle.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue....good post and that is why I am here. To find options prior to dumping this car. I am in the middle of Canada, and it is as cold as it gets anywhere in the world. Everything you say is true and I do not debate any of it.

I am going to look at blocking the grill, but probably have to block the rad itself as there are many ways air gets in there on a Cruze. Xtreme says he will update us on the coolant boost and if he has results, I will do that.

I just checked, the Datsun was a wagon, and had a 1.2 liter. I understand the laws of physics and I have a pretty good knowledge of vehicles...I teach people to drive large trucks as a part of my living. I also was an auto body tech and come from a family of mechanics. 

In spite of all the excuses that were made here, does anyone really think these problems are acceptable in a brand new car? Perhaps others do, I do not. I guess I can accept anything, but that does not make it right or okay. There is an engineering fault in this car, and any other car from any manufacturer that acts in this manner. Anyone from a warmer climate may think I am whining. If you lived in my climate, and the safety of your family was at risk because of this "excusable" flaw, I would expect you to be as pissed as I am. I would also expect anyone in my shoes to easily take the $10,000 hit rather than see their family injured. If I was not being patient, I would have dumped this thing already. Instead I am here trying to learn from honest folks who share their experiences and knowledge - and renting a car.

The northern dealer network should be admitting this and offering auxiliary heat, grill blockers and coolant to boost to all of us with this problem.

Thanks again for that excellent reply.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Colt45 said:


> Yup. Freezes solid inside. You have to put defrost on and open a window to clear the windshield enough to see out of. Can't see a **** thing out the sides though. Temp gauge will bottom out on the highway in ten or fifteen minutes. Waiting at an on ramp or a light on the highway and there is zero heat.


That really doesn't sound right at all, how long are you running the car? what fan speed are you running when warming the engine? I find anything over 2 fan speed(I have a 2012 with 4 speeds) will start cooling off the car if you have not let the engine warm enough first. My 2012 still has the digital temperature on the DIC, I really need to see 200+ degrees before the cooling is not noticed. 

I should say I use remote start 3-4 minutes before every drive. On a 15F day I drive 6 minutes up a 300ft elevation change I hit 210, cool off to 150 on the backside of that hill but am back to 200+ in another minute. Total warmup is 8 minutes. On a -15F degree day those numbers are doubled. that first elevation increase I only hit 160 and I have to drive an additional 6 minutes before I get to 200 degrees. Total warm up time is around 15-20minutes. 

I do get cooling of the engine at highway speeds above fan 2 when below -15F, again this is less pronounced if you let the motor warm to a higher temperature first. I use the defroster until the engine is warmed up, then I switch to the floor only and crack the passenger window. This allows all the moisture on the floor mats to escape & not build up as fog on the windows.
If my motor has been warmed for 15-20minutes I may use fan speed 3 for 6-8minutes, by that point its hotter than the blazes of **** in my car and I have to go back to fan 2. If my windows ever start to fog I switch back to the defroster. 

I have husky floor liners and empty them around once a week(when frozen). This alone has eliminated any frost I was getting inside the windows.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

spacedout said:


> That really doesn't sound right at all, how long are you running the car? what fan speed are you running when warming the engine? I find anything over 2 fan speed(I have a 2012 with 4 speeds) will start cooling off the car if you have not let the engine warm enough first. My 2012 still has the digital temperature on the DIC, I really need to see 200+ degrees before the cooling is not noticed.
> 
> I should say I use remote start 3-4 minutes before every drive. On a 15F day I drive 6 minutes up a 300ft elevation change I hit 210, cool off to 150 on the backside of that hill but am back to 200+ in another minute. Total warmup is 8 minutes. On a -15F degree day those numbers are doubled. that first elevation increase I only hit 160 and I have to drive an additional 6 minutes before I get to 200 degrees. Total warm up time is around 15-20minutes.
> 
> ...


Car runs a full ten minutes.....in the garage....while plugged in. Heck, it was inside the dealer all day Saturday, ran for an hour outside and within twenty minutes of driving, the gauge was down to almost zero, heat was dying out and windows were frozen over. Granted, the heat was on high as I drove off. Did not know at that point that the fan was "redundant" on high.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Don't know if you're willing to...but a custom install of an auxiliary heater (either electric or gas-fired) fed into the air intake might do what you're looking for. 

A 1000+ W heater would put a heck of a load on the alternator though.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> Don't know if you're willing to...but a custom install of an auxiliary heater (either electric or gas-fired) fed into the air intake might do what you're looking for.
> 
> A 1000+ W heater would put a heck of a load on the alternator though.


Alternator is under warranty, so I don't care about that. Car has been in the shop six times in six months anyway, so I may as well just add the alternator to the list. That may be what I will have to do. We use aux heaters on the old tractors at work, and they do help.

Really appreciate all the input here. This is a great site.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> Blue....good post and that is why I am here. To find options prior to dumping this car. I am in the middle of Canada, and it is as cold as it gets anywhere in the world. Everything you say is true and I do not debate any of it.
> 
> I am going to look at blocking the grill, but probably have to block the rad itself as there are many ways air gets in there on a Cruze. Xtreme says he will update us on the coolant boost and if he has results, I will do that.
> 
> ...


I have been using the coolant boost for a month now and it has sped up the warm-up time in my car by approximately 35% and sped up the amount of time it takes for me to get comfortable heat by 45%. I can confidently say that it helps a lot. That said, 35% is 35%, not 100% or 200%. It is not a magic pill or liquid gold. It is simply a blend of surfectants that significantly improve the heat transfer between metal surfaces and your antifreeze. Your cylinder head operates at ~35 degrees hotter than your antifreeze, and this product closes that gap by pulling more of the heat into the antifreeze, which will show your car as being warmer faster, and transfer more of that heat from the antifreeze into your heater core where it will warm up your car. While it will help, I cannot guarantee that it will help *you* as much as you want it to. For about $20 including shipping though, it's certainly worth a try. You can order direct from the link Blue Angel posted if you want to try it. Be aware that it is an additive that will deplete over ~30,000 miles and will need to be re-added. One bottle contains 16oz and you need ~6oz for the Cruze, so you'll get two uses out of one bottle. 

I do not see it as an issue that is acceptable or not acceptable. I see it as a compromise between efficiency and comfort. Let's face it; this vehicle burns 0.17 US gallons of fuel per hour. That's 0.64 liters. It is achieves in severe conditions what 4-cylinder engines of the past could only achieve in 100% highway driving due to this efficiency. You either pay for it at the pump, or you pay for it with comfort. Blue Angel's advice is great advice. 

Barring all that, I have a big roll of 3M Thinsulate in the garage that will be going up in my ceiling shortly. I have talked to a few people who used it and they say it makes the heating and cooling in the car feel 2-3x as effective because less heat is lost through the ceiling in the winter and less heat gets in to warm the car up during the summer. I can talk to my supplier and see if he'd be willing to sell you a roll and ship it to Canada. You'd be surprised how much thermal transfer occurs through the roof of the car. While cars normally shouldn't be required to be insulated like this, desperate temperatures call for exceptional measures.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Colt45 said:


> Car runs a full ten minutes.....in the garage....while plugged in. Heck, it was inside the dealer all day Saturday, ran for an hour outside and within twenty minutes of driving, the gauge was down to almost zero, heat was dying out and windows were frozen over. Granted, the heat was on high as I drove off. Did not know at that point that the fan was "redundant" on high.


Today it was -22F(-30C) this AM when I started my car, 9 minutes later when I got in my car it was only up to 110 degrees. On a normal cold day of 15F(-9C), I hit 100 degrees in 3-4 minutes. Double the time to warm to the same temperature, all with fan speed 2 on defrost. 

There is your problem right there, you are cooling off the car with the fan speed set so high. Leave the fan at a lower speed(like 2) on defrost and let the car warm up for 15-20 minutes(of driving). I guarantee you will have more than enough heat & can use fan speed 3 or 4 after that but more than 8-10 minutes does start to cool off the engine when this freakin cold. If you let the engine warm enough first though you will be cooked out of the car in that amount of time anyway and need to go back to fan 2.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I have been using the coolant boost for a month now and it has sped up the warm-up time in my car by approximately 35% and sped up the amount of time it takes for me to get comfortable heat by 45%. I can confidently say that it helps a lot. That said, 35% is 35%, not 100% or 200%. It is not a magic pill or liquid gold. It is simply a blend of surfectants that significantly improve the heat transfer between metal surfaces and your antifreeze. Your cylinder head operates at ~35 degrees hotter than your antifreeze, and this product closes that gap by pulling more of the heat into the antifreeze, which will show your car as being warmer faster, and transfer more of that heat from the antifreeze into your heater core where it will warm up your car. While it will help, I cannot guarantee that it will help *you* as much as you want it to. For about $20 including shipping though, it's certainly worth a try. You can order direct from the link Blue Angel posted if you want to try it. Be aware that it is an additive that will deplete over ~30,000 miles and will need to be re-added. One bottle contains 16oz and you need ~6oz for the Cruze, so you'll get two uses out of one bottle.
> 
> I do not see it as an issue that is acceptable or not acceptable. I see it as a compromise between efficiency and comfort. Let's face it; this vehicle burns 0.17 US gallons of fuel per hour. That's 0.64 liters. It is achieves in severe conditions what 4-cylinder engines of the past could only achieve in 100% highway driving due to this efficiency. You either pay for it at the pump, or you pay for it with comfort. Blue Angel's advice is great advice.
> 
> Barring all that, I have a big roll of 3M Thinsulate in the garage that will be going up in my ceiling shortly. I have talked to a few people who used it and they say it makes the heating and cooling in the car feel 2-3x as effective because less heat is lost through the ceiling in the winter and less heat gets in to warm the car up during the summer. I can talk to my supplier and see if he'd be willing to sell you a roll and ship it to Canada. You'd be surprised how much thermal transfer occurs through the roof of the car. While cars normally shouldn't be required to be insulated like this, desperate temperatures call for exceptional measures.



Thanks...garage is insulated already. I will check that link and decide if I am going to put in the additive. The dealer has agreed that the car has very poor heat and they said they will block the grill and/or rad for me. I have an appointment tomorrow for that and will update the good folks here as to whether that is effective or not. If that does not correct it, then it is time for the additive. I am concerned about this affecting the warranty though as this car has been in for shocks, struts, a baffle, torque converter seal, transmission seal and is awaiting rear axles. Dealer tells me they are seeing a lot of rear axles due to water intrusion.

When I am at the dealer tomorrow, I am going to ask them if I can punch in on the clock and help them out in the shop. Make a few bucks as I am there on a pretty regular basis. LOL!!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> In spite of all the excuses that were made here, does anyone really think these problems are acceptable in a brand new car? Perhaps others do, I do not. I guess I can accept anything, but that does not make it right or okay. There is an engineering fault in this car, and any other car from any manufacturer that acts in this manner...


I don't know if I'd go as far as to call it an "Engineering fault", though you're on the right track. The way a large company thinks is usually to exclude worrying about the 2% of customers that may have an issue with the way something works as long as they're pleasing the other 98%. Unfortunately, for those of us who are in extreme cold climates it means that if the heater is good enough for most people, it must be good enough for everyone. I don't agree with this thinking, especially with something important like the vehicle heater.

This is GM's first application where a very small turbocharged engine has to provide heat to a darn-near mid-size car. Unless you are operating at a constant load at moderately high speeds, there just isn't much heat left over for occupant comfort. Having said that, this isn't their first car to have a sub-standard heater so I'm not sure what their "minimum requirement" is.

The latest Prius uses a heat recovery system that takes heat from the exhaust and uses it to heat the coolant, reducing warm-up times and emissions in all weather conditions which is even more important in a car that is capable of motivating itself without the engine at all. No doubt this is a complicated and relatively expensive system to implement, but I think it's the future. As cars get more and more efficient there will simply be less and less heat to play with.



Colt45 said:


> The northern dealer network should be admitting this and offering auxiliary heat, grill blockers and coolant to boost to all of us with this problem.


I agree with this 100%. I was extremely disappointed to find out that the "block" heater the salesman checked off when I ordered my car was actually a tiny 200W oil pan heater instead. I was even more frustrated when I found out the power cord had a thermostat in it that didn't turn the heater on until -18C (0F)! I found out the reason for this is GM's start-up diagnostic in the ECU compares several temperature sensors on a cold start and if there's a discrepancy between them a Diagnostic Trouble Code is set (and AFAIK it's this way with every post-'04 GM product, even those with BLOCK heaters!). Instead of reprogramming the start-up diagnostics to accommodate the heaters (and more importantly the owners), they just leave the heaters off until it's bone-chilling cold out. Dumb... no other way to see it than that.

You do realise that if the dealers had to sell you a bunch of accessories so that you could use your Cruze in the cold, well, you'd probably have bought something else. These things would then have to be installed on every car, or at least those headed to Canada and maybe the Northern States, which would either increase the cost of the car or decrease profits. Instead they've chosen to frustrate their cold climate customer base. I used the word "chosen" purposely as I'm absolutely sure that their Engineering team is well aware of the long warm-up times under light driving.

I'm making do in Eastern Ontario where, relatively speaking, it's only "very" cold (and weird lately... 5C this morning and an expected low of -23C tonight???). I can fully understand how someone would find it completely unacceptable in a much colder climate. Example; my brother is in Fort Mac in Edmonton and he tells me how cold it gets there. That's no place for a Cruze IMO, but I bet the local Chevy dealer sells lots of them.

Here's a link to my block heater thermostat mod if you're interested:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/57-how-library/11122-diy-oil-pan-heater-thermostat-removal.html


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> The dealer has agreed that the car has very poor heat and they said they will block the grill and/or rad for me. I have an appointment tomorrow for that and will update the good folks here as to whether that is effective or not. If that does not correct it, then it is time for the additive.


I'm quite surprised that they are willing to block the rad! I wonder if this is something that's been OK'd with GM or if they are just a bunch of really nice and understanding people willing to do whatever it takes to fix your issue?

Keep us informed!


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm quite surprised that they are willing to block the rad! I wonder if this is something that's been OK'd with GM or if they are just a bunch of really nice and understanding people willing to do whatever it takes to fix your issue?
> 
> Keep us informed!


Blue, Fort Mac has the same weather as I do right now. I bet they sell a lot of Cruzes. I will check out that link and may consider an old fashioned inline coolant warmer. Those were effective and are still available. Once again, that is a mod that may affect warranty.

Yes, the dealer is awesome. I have purchased several cars there and they have always been good. The two "kid" salesmen I met years ago now run the dealership. They know I am legit as this is the first time I have ever complained in any way. They also have three other customers crapping on them for the exact same problem.
They told me they had this issue years ago with Chevy Aveos and they blocked the rads on those too, just to make the customer happy.

I will keep everyone here informed as this is an awesome forum. The one thing I hate about a lot of people who post on these forums, and you search through ten pages to find out that they never post their resolution. Good or bad, I will let you guys know.

So far, the only good thing about owning this Cruze has been this forum. LOL!!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> Thanks...garage is insulated already. I will check that link and decide if I am going to put in the additive. The dealer has agreed that the car has very poor heat and they said they will block the grill and/or rad for me. I have an appointment tomorrow for that and will update the good folks here as to whether that is effective or not. If that does not correct it, then it is time for the additive. I am concerned about this affecting the warranty though as this car has been in for shocks, struts, a baffle, torque converter seal, transmission seal and is awaiting rear axles. Dealer tells me they are seeing a lot of rear axles due to water intrusion.
> 
> When I am at the dealer tomorrow, I am going to ask them if I can punch in on the clock and help them out in the shop. Make a few bucks as I am there on a pretty regular basis. LOL!!


I'm not talking about garage insulation. I'm talking about the roof of the car. There is nothing to insulate heat in the roof of the Cruze. The headliner does a poor job of it. The thinsulate will go between the head liner and the roof, inside the car. Thinsulate is the material they use in winter coats/jacakets, gloves, hats, coffee mugs, etc. Here's what I'm talking about:










Get some of that in the roof of your car, and you'll be able to keep the car warmer with a lower fan speed, thus keeping the engine warmer and losing less heat to the outside of the car. 

Here is an image direct from 3M regarding where you can apply thinsulate. It is excellent for blocking sound and insulating heat. 










Thinsulate : Automotive OEM : 3M Europe

GM actually uses it quite liberally on the Cruze, but the few people that pulled their head liner reported that there's nothing up there.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Sorry about that, I misunderstood. I never thought of insulating the headliner of the car, but that is an option.
I can get pretty much any material, both home and auto through family connections. If it comes to that, that is what I will do. I have pretty good skills in that department, so it would not take me long. Thanks for that idea.

I guess I could always drive around with a used mattress on the roof and a big piece of cardboard duct-taped to the front end as well. Would make it look mean. LOL!!


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## Houd (Aug 4, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> Houd....the car should not be sold in Canada. You will make it through as this is just a cold snap for you. For us here in the west, this car has been useless since November and will be until April. Did you take it to the dealer and have them check it? Maybe yours is just a thermostat or something. Probably not, but it is a warranty item and will cost you nothing.


This is my second winter with the cruze. Last year it wasn't this bad mind you I don't remember if the weather was as bad. Either way I always have plastic mats in there to avoid having the carpet suck up the water. As far as taking it in to the dealer I considered it but let it slip as the weather got better. Let me know if covering the grill, radiator or whatever your dealership is going to do will help it out. If so then I won't hesitate to bring it in. Thanks!


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Houd said:


> This is my second winter with the cruze. Last year it wasn't this bad mind you I don't remember if the weather was as bad. Either way I always have plastic mats in there to avoid having the carpet suck up the water. As far as taking it in to the dealer I considered it but let it slip as the weather got better. Let me know if covering the grill, radiator or whatever your dealership is going to do will help it out. If so then I won't hesitate to bring it in. Thanks!


I use Pants Saver Car mats in all my vehicles. In other vehicles, the water stays melted and I simply pull them out and shake them off in the driveway. In the Cruze, these things end up like mini skating rinks as the water freezes in them. So I bring them in the house.

As for you 'forgetting' about it because it warmed up, you will be in the majority. In the next few days pretty much everyone will have forgotten about this problem, except me and the northern brethren.

I will update based on my results, one way or the other.....


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> I will update based on my results, one way or the other.....


Looking forward to it... your comment about forum posts with no resolution is right on the money!


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> Looking forward to it... your comment about forum posts with no resolution is right on the money!



Well, just got back from the dealer. They did two others before I got there, so they cut out a bunch of "blockers" as they have others coming in. 

Interestingly enough, I cannot see exactly what they blocked off. I did notice a slight improvement on the trip home, but still noticed that with the fan on high, the temp drops down. The difference is that it seems as if it recovers better than it used to.

Hard to tell as it is slightly warmer today. Still freakin' cold, but a bit warmer.

The proof will be in the warmup time, and that may take a couple of days to determine. Problem is that we are supposed to warm up a lot over the next few days - which is good - but will delay my results.

They seem to be doing this on the Q-T, and really did not want to elaborate on what they did. If it works, I will tear into it and see what they did, and let everyone here know.

He also mentioned that if enough people complain to GM, HINT HINT, that GM may address the issue and at least supply winter fronts for the Cruze.

So, everyone who is here complaining, please contact your dealer. The problem will not go away on it's own. It may warm up and you will forget, until the next cold night you are on the road with your family. Please contact GM!!

Thanks...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> He also mentioned that if enough people complain to GM, HINT HINT, that GM may address the issue and at least supply winter fronts for the Cruze.
> 
> So, everyone who is here complaining, please contact your dealer.


This.

May not happen on this Cruze, but can only be a positive to provide feedback they can use for the future.


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## Houd (Aug 4, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> Well, just got back from the dealer. They did two others before I got there, so they cut out a bunch of "blockers" as they have others coming in.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I cannot see exactly what they blocked off. I did notice a slight improvement on the trip home, but still noticed that with the fan on high, the temp drops down. The difference is that it seems as if it recovers better than it used to.
> 
> ...



SO it's been a few days, have you found there is an improvement when starting up the car? It's been much warmer here in New Brunswick so I haven't had any real problems with it but I'm sure the weather is tougher in Alberta... Let me know


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Houd said:


> SO it's been a few days, have you found there is an improvement when starting up the car? It's been much warmer here in New Brunswick so I haven't had any real problems with it but I'm sure the weather is tougher in Alberta... Let me know


It has been unseasonably warm as of late so I really can't tell you! Supposed to cool off late in the week. Like I said, I won't leave you guys hanging. If I find that whatever they did has indeed fixed it, I will find out exactly what they did and post it here.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

2012 2LT, MT, 24K miles on it, 1.4 L turbo charged engine. Three solid weeks of subzero weather using the Fahrenheit system.

Warmer now actually hit freezing temperatures where water changes to ice, 0*C or 32*F. But absolutely no warm up problems even in subzero F temperatures.

Little over a week ago was -22*F actual temperature, not this wind chill stuff, started getting heat in less than one mile of driving, but took a little over four miles to hit 221*F where on warmer days, about two miles. Most of the speed was between 35-45 mph.

Just saying at on least one Cruze, Chevy got this right.

This may well be the culprit.










Should be completely closed before operating temperature is reached. rockauto.com wants $40.79 for it plus shipping.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

NickD said:


> Should be completely closed before operating temperature is reached. rockauto.com wants $40.79 for it plus shipping.


Interesting... I wonder if that's the actual part? All the 1.4T thermostats I've seen are plastic. New design, or just a pic of a generic part?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

The thermostat that came with my Cruze is also black plastic. And as long as it works and under warranty, wasn't planning on fooling around with it. Assume GM is using many different vendors on this part that could well be the problem.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Well, here is your update. Back to -30 Celsius here and once again.....car is hopeless. Ran it for 20 minutes this morning, in the garage and it was plugged in.

Zero heat. Windows frozen. Turning the fan over two results in absolutely no heat. Temp gauge below 1/4 and will go to zero with the fan on three or higher. Can't see, can't drive.

Thank you GM. Thank you very much. So far this has cost them two sales as I put my mother in a Nissan and my sis-in-law in a Corolla. Neither one of these cars has any issues so far. The Corolla has incredible heat.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Talked to my service manager today to arrange to have the cardboard removed from the rad on my fancy new car.

He tells us that there were tons and tons of customers with the same complaint, and that GM is very well aware of it but will do nothing. In spite of the danger of not being able to see out of these cars in northern climates, nothing will be done.

I guess they really don't care about the safety of their customers, do they?

At least Vokswagen admitted the problem and provided their customers with auxiliary heaters. Who would have thought that Volkswagen is a better company than GM?

Two more years on this lease and it is gone. I can finally get rid of it an no longer have to rent another car when it is cold. This has been my only option when I have to go on the highway or carry passengers. 

I rent a car.

There will be no fix.

Tough $hit says General Motors.

How pathetic.


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## JerryCanada (Feb 6, 2014)

Hey Houd,

From Moncton and I can feel your pain on the temperature. For the inside humidity issue. You should take a look at Husky or weathertech floor mats. They would stop any melting snow to go in the car's carpet and would probably fix your window steaming issue. I had this style of mats in my last few vehicles and they work good. 

The engine running cold is to be expected in such a small engine with a turbo pushing extra air (cold) in the engine. I have only bought my Cruze in Feb so didn't bother doing anything for the engine temperature but when preparing it for next winter, I will more than likely be looking at changing the thermostat and placing a piece of sheet metal between the grill and the radiator to prevent it to run too cool.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

JerryCanada said:


> Hey Houd,
> 
> From Moncton and I can feel your pain on the temperature. For the inside humidity issue. You should take a look at Husky or weathertech floor mats. They would stop any melting snow to go in the car's carpet and would probably fix your window steaming issue. I had this style of mats in my last few vehicles and they work good.
> 
> The engine running cold is to be expected in such a small engine with a turbo pushing extra air (cold) in the engine. I have only bought my Cruze in Feb so didn't bother doing anything for the engine temperature but when preparing it for next winter, I will more than likely be looking at changing the thermostat and placing a piece of sheet metal between the grill and the radiator to prevent it to run too cool.


Floor mats are bone dry, that is not the issue. Anything below -15 Celsius and the car is hopeless. GM dealers will block the inlets to the rad and to the turbo for you, but when it starts to warm up you gotta get them removed. That was what the service manager here was doing today, calling the hundreds of Cruze owners to come in and have the cardboard removed from their rads.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

The next generation Cruze is rumored to have an exhaust manifold integrated into the cylinder head. One of the benefits of the design was stated as decreasing warm up time. I wonder what kind of real world benefit this will bring? It will also place a much higher load on the cooling system once the engine is warm.

I still think an exhaust heat exchanger is the proper long term solution, but that costs more $.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Its also supposed to be 40lbs lighter


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> The next generation Cruze is rumored to have an exhaust manifold integrated into the cylinder head. One of the benefits of the design was stated as decreasing warm up time. I wonder what kind of real world benefit this will bring? It will also place a much higher load on the cooling system once the engine is warm.
> 
> I still think an exhaust heat exchanger is the proper long term solution, but that costs more $.



Who knows if it will help, but it won't help me. I am truly disappointed in GM's response to this problem. When my lease is up, I will not be getting another GM. I am not saying that any other car would be problem-free, but I fee foolish enough for buying this car - and you know the old "fool me once" thing.

Like I said, at least some attempt or admission and perhaps some after-market remedy. Something!! As I watch the ignition switch thing unfold, I realize that car companies only advertise safety as a marketing gimmick. If they truly cared about safety and their customer, they would recall and repair this unsafe Cruze at any cost. I feel bad for my wife. All she wanted was a safe car after being in a bad accident (not her fault) with the last car. So we bought "safety" and we got a car that we cannot drive. I have rented a car nine times this winter. Really adds salt to the wound when you leave your brand new car at Enterprise and pay to rent a car for the day.

For cars, I will go back to Toyota or Hyundai next time. Hope for better luck. 

I was planning on buying a new Silverado this spring, depending on my experience with the Cruze. Well, suffice it to say that I will be buying an F-150 instead.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

money_man said:


> Its also supposed to be 40lbs lighter


The next Cruze will be at least 200 pounds lighter....because I won't be in it. LOL!!!


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Just an FYI. My friend works for an Hyundai dealer around me. For the last 4 months he's been replacing short blocks because the pistons have a coating on them that deteriorates and destroys the cylinder walls. Some of them only have 27000km on them. He told me unless you want only an A to B car then don't buy a Hyundai.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

money_man said:


> Just an FYI. My friend works for an Hyundai dealer around me. For the last 4 months he's been replacing short blocks because the pistons have a coating on them that deteriorates and destroys the cylinder walls. Some of them only have 27000km on them. He told me unless you want only an A to B car then don't buy a Hyundai.


I did not buy the Hyundai because I did not like the steering on the highway. I drive highway a lot, so it was an issue. Thanks for the heads-up on that......I think leasing will be the way to go next time too. Not sure if I want to own any of these crappy cars.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> Who knows if it will help, but it won't help me.


If your winter environment is that extreme I would stay away from any small turbo engine for now, including the F150 Ecoboost, unless you have a chance to try them out in the dead of winter from a cold start first.

Shying away from a GM pickup with a V8 because of your experience with their turbo 1.4 seems a little premature to me, even though your complaints are mostly customer service related. Before putting all your eggs into the F150 basket I'd spend some time on related forums and see if their customer service sounds any better than GMs.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> If your winter environment is that extreme I would stay away from any small turbo engine for now, including the F150 Ecoboost, unless you have a chance to try them out in the dead of winter from a cold start first.
> 
> Shying away from a GM pickup with a V8 because of your experience with their turbo 1.4 seems a little premature to me, even though your complaints are mostly customer service related. Before putting all your eggs into the F150 basket I'd spend some time on related forums and see if their customer service sounds any better than GMs.



All good advice and I appreciate it....the F-150 is tried and true around here. Several of my friends and family own them, albeit without Ecoboost and they have been relatively problem free. My Ford Ranger is as bullet proof as can be and Ford even replaced the thermostat at 54,000 miles free under warranty. I did not even ask. I booked it in for the thermostat and they told me it was free. So my experience with Ford has been far better than GM.

I find the question of motor displacement to be strange. I don't think the 1.4 is that much smaller than the 1.8 in my last Corolla and it had screaming heat in all conditions.


The thing that I find strange is the GM Customer service people here on the forum have never said a peep in this thread. That speaks volumes....


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Colt45 said:


> The next Cruze will be at least 200 pounds lighter....because I won't be in it. LOL!!!


Not sure why I laughed soo hard at this!


Colt45 said:


> ....The thing that I find strange is the GM Customer service people here on the forum have never said a peep in this thread. That speaks volumes....


Give them time, they are dealing with a million other GM forums like this with all the highlighted recall issues in the news.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> All good advice and I appreciate it....the F-150 is tried and true around here. Several of my friends and family own them, albeit without Ecoboost and they have been relatively problem free. My Ford Ranger is as bullet proof as can be and Ford even replaced the thermostat at 54,000 miles free under warranty. I did not even ask. I booked it in for the thermostat and they told me it was free. So my experience with Ford has been far better than GM.
> 
> I find the question of motor displacement to be strange. I don't think the 1.4 is that much smaller than the 1.8 in my last Corolla and it had screaming heat in all conditions.
> 
> ...


My sister in law's boyfriend has an F150 and he can't wait to get rid of it. More problems than I can begin to mention.

The displacement doesn't matter; the efficiency does. The Cruze burns 0.17 gallons of fuel per hour idling. While the displacement is indeed small, there are a few things that reduce the load of the engine, such as DLC piston rings that have much less friction than conventional piston rings, a variable displacement oil pump, minimum requirement is a synthetic blend oil friction modifiers, and a variable load alternator. I'm sure there's more. The Corolla doesn't compare. It's practically a dinosaur engine compared to this, and 0.4L doesn't sound like a lot but the 1.8 is a 29% increase in displacement. 

You are welcome to ask the GM customer service people to get involved instead of automatically assuming that they are absent for a reason you have no basis for.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> My sister in law's boyfriend has an F150 and he can't wait to get rid of it. More problems than I can begin to mention.
> 
> The displacement doesn't matter; the efficiency does. The Cruze burns 0.17 gallons of fuel per hour idling. While the displacement is indeed small, there are a few things that reduce the load of the engine, such as DLC piston rings that have much less friction than conventional piston rings, a variable displacement oil pump, minimum requirement is a synthetic blend oil friction modifiers, and a variable load alternator. I'm sure there's more. The Corolla doesn't compare. It's practically a dinosaur engine compared to this, and 0.4L doesn't sound like a lot but the 1.8 is a 29% increase in displacement.
> 
> ...



Thanks for clarifying the displacement issue. I now understand the difference. Appreciate the info!!

Your sister-in-law's boyfriend's had the "my Cruze" version of the F-150 then. Like we all know, each vehicle in spite of make, model can have lemons. What year and what power train is it?? I just sat back and figured out I know nine people who have them and the only common issues I have heard are random CEL and spark plug and fuel line issues. I guess with the millions of them on the road, there are bound to be some crappy ones.

As for the GM customer Service, why are they so quick to reply when someone posts "My New Cruze" or the like?

Does not matter, I only came here to share my very honest story to try to help other potential Cruze owners who live in northern climates to be aware of this issue. I Did not come here to fight, defend or argue. I do all my fighting in the ring.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Colt45 said:


> As for the GM customer Service, why are they so quick to reply when someone posts "My New Cruze" or the like?


They tend to stalk newbie and ask GM section unless you type a problem blatantly in the title. "I F'n hate my dealer" or "3rd waterpump this year" will grab their attention. The way this thread is titled I expected another "My car sucks in snow" post when I clicked on it.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I'm a ford fan but I wouldn't buy a new f 150. The GM's are same or better build quality and better fuel mileage and not to mention a bullet proof drive train. The 2015+ f150 will be an aluminum body and I've heard rumors its going to jack the price of insurance through the roof because it will be so expensive to work on. If I did buy an f150 it would be a 2011+ with the 5.0L coyote engine. The 5.4 has all the spark plug problems and a pig on fuel and the 4.6 is lacking all around. The 4.6 should've been in the rangers


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> I'm a ford fan but I wouldn't buy a new f 150. The GM's are same or better build quality and better fuel mileage and not to mention a bullet proof drive train. The 2015+ f150 will be an aluminum body and I've heard rumors its going to jack the price of insurance through the roof because it will be so expensive to work on. If I did buy an f150 it would be a 2011+ with the 5.0L coyote engine. The 5.4 has all the spark plug problems and a pig on fuel and the 4.6 is lacking all around. The 4.6 should've been in the rangers


 The 4.2L V6 should have been in more as well.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Merc and Money....all true points. The newer 5.4 has less plug problems. The 4.6 was good for casual use, but not a good towing machine and felt gutless in 4x4.

I love the idea of the aluminum body as the streets here are like salt-licks for four months a year, but I know the cost of repairs will be insane.

I have the 4.0 in my current Ranger, I have had the 3.0, 2.9 and 2.3 in prior Rangers. All were good motors, but the A4LD transmissions go off like fire-crackers. The 4.0 is thirsty too. I like the size of the Ranger and was sad to see them discontinued. Sad in a way, but mine has actually increased in value over the past year due to local demand.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Our old work truck was nicknamed "The Danger Ranger", it was beat to **** when we got it, and I was surprised it still ran when they replaced it wit an astro van.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Merc6 said:


> Our old work truck was nicknamed "The Danger Ranger", it was beat to **** when we got it, and I was surprised it still ran when they replaced it wit an astro van.


I pull trailers, hunt and fish....I have taken Rangers to **** and back and they keep ticking. I have sold two of them to friends of mine and both are still running with thousands and thousands of miles on them. Rangers were old technology when they were new, and were still that way to the end. Not the smoothest nor the most efficient, but a durable and reliable workhorse that fits most people's needs.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Besides the slipping trans and the headlight switch needs pliers to turn on, it was decent when it came to producing heat. Not that I think of it, the fan only worked on 3/4 setting. My only issue with window fog like this was my 3100 Buick Century. That heat worked lovely windows would never defog from same overnight garage conditions.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Okay, so now I have the dreaded "antifreeze smell". Car is back at the dealer as I type for the two leaks and now the antifreeze smell.

Have put in an official complaint with GM Customer Service and we will see where that goes.


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## tommyt37 (Jun 14, 2014)

Wow interesting thread! I hope gm looks in to this

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Just got a recall regarding a coolant issue with the car. Wondering if this may be part of the problem. We shall see.

If not, then the painful countdown until the end of my lease continues.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Okay, so the car was in for it's "monthly" repair,this time for a recall, and the dealer noted that the heater was malfunctioning. We had told them that already. When the fan is on, even set to cool, the car would randomly blow hot air. So they checked and found a Code 6581, which apparently is a malfunctioning Heater Control. They replaced the Heater Control. While testing the heater, they rolled the window down and found that the window applique was coming off. They replaced that too.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

What is window appliqué?


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

money_man said:


> What is window appliqué?
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


I am assuming it was just the plastic trim around the window. I know that the window made a creak noise when it was just finishing rolling up, but ignored it. They changed the trim and now the creak is gone.


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## iggy (Feb 14, 2013)

Wow... Last winter , we here had the coldest snowiest winter ever in southeastern Michigan, it was -25C or so for a few weeks, I lived in a hotel the whole winter because I had a frozen pipe at my house that flooded the house, taking nearly 7 months to restore my home to living condition. Meanwhile, I was driving a Toyota Camry with a 4 cylinder with a wide open thermostat, the only thing at all that kept me with any heat was something blocking the front of the radiator... I thought I had troubles. 

Meanwhile, my wife, driving her 2012 LTZ Cruse never complained once about heat. I didn't drive her car too much, but when I did, I didn't notice any real issue with heat. 

What I might suggest, is to put it manual shift mode... drive the thing around 3000RPM. If you've got good tires on there, it shouldn't be all that hard to drive like that. 

Now, I will say that I've never had to drive in -30C temps for sustained periods of time... so I have absolutely no idea if the Cruze falls on it's face at those temps. But as I said above, I just went through the worst winters ever in this part of the world and never really heard a single complaint from my wife and her Cruze... and it was parked outside the whole winter.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

iggy said:


> Wow... Last winter , we here had the coldest snowiest winter ever in southeastern Michigan, it was -25C or so for a few weeks, I lived in a hotel the whole winter because I had a frozen pipe at my house that flooded the house, taking nearly 7 months to restore my home to living condition. Meanwhile, I was driving a Toyota Camry with a 4 cylinder with a wide open thermostat, the only thing at all that kept me with any heat was something blocking the front of the radiator... I thought I had troubles.
> 
> Meanwhile, my wife, driving her 2012 LTZ Cruse never complained once about heat. I didn't drive her car too much, but when I did, I didn't notice any real issue with heat.
> 
> ...


Thanks Iggy....we had a bad one too. I don't believe all Cruzes are like mine, but I have talked to a few people around here who had similar issues last winter. If it was me driving, I would drive it at 3000 RPM all the time, but it is my wife's car. I am hoping that they get to the root of the problem, but is could be the fact that this is how they are. Since only a small portion of the population is affected with our weather, I assume GM just does not care. If my assumption is correct, then perhaps they should limit distribution in our climate, or correct the problem.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I went around in -30c weather for a couple weeks here in Canada and my diesel made more than optimum heat


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

money_man said:


> I went around in -30c weather for a couple weeks here in Canada and my diesel made more than optimum heat
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


That's cheating, you have an electric heater!


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## Expat1983 (Jun 8, 2013)

I don't think I had any issues last Winter with my Cruze, I live in the Toledo OH area where we too got the worst winter on record. Rear windshield was always fogging up so the heated defrost ran a lot, I ended up with pretty dirty glass from all the moisture in the cabin. I have found that in extreme temperatures, I do have to run the fan at a a high setting but I attribute it to the tiny 1.4l.


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## raffmanlt (Oct 4, 2014)

Colt45 said:


> Thank you for the reply. It is very cold, -35-ish. I have been driving with the window open a crack to allow fresh dry air into the car to reduce humidity. I also use the AC, but I am not sure if it kicks in in this cold. Recirc will cause ice in this climate. Outside air is the only way to go.
> 
> Bottom line here is this car is over-cooling, much like a big rig as they have huge rads to help them in the desert, but that freeze the trucks in our areas. Not designed to withstand the Canadian or Alaskan climate. GM will never admit that as there are relatively few cars here versus California or New York where these problems will not surface. The only way around this, as pathetic as it may seem, is to cover the radiator at least partially. Much like we did years ago on cars and diesel trucks. I can do this myself, but will force the dealer to do it so that it does not void my warranty.
> 
> ...


In the winter some people- semi drivers put a cover over there radiator to stop wind through radiator. I never needed to but sometimes I have seen them partly unzipped also to meet desired level of cooling. I have seen a few people attempt the same with cardboard. Hey on the models that have active grill shudders for aerodynamics I wonder if they close when its really cold assuming they are not frozen?

My experience with other cars and trucks is the faster you go the cooler from all the wind so that part about cooling when you slow down is weird to me and I have never noticed fan speed having much of an affect on engine temp on any car or truck that i have had. however rarely gets that cold here.

I have had my windows fog more than i am used to.


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## raffmanlt (Oct 4, 2014)

Robby said:


> LOL, LOL,
> 
> Yeah, that'll fix it......hammer it........nice and toasty as it winds itself around a tree.......that little ding in the quarter panel will be long forgotten.
> 
> ...


that is funny Rob, as for heaters that run off cigarette lighter the ones I tried did not help much. Now what you need is a portable propane heater. Of course this would also end up with you possibly kissing a tree after oxygen in the car has been replaced.... lmao


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## raffmanlt (Oct 4, 2014)

spacedout said:


> I really don't think there is an issue here to address, its just the way small displacement engines are. I would rather have a car that take a bit longer to warm in the extreme cold of winter than have a car that overheats in the summer.
> 
> With that said GM should start putting the auxiliary electric heater from the cruze diesel in all cruze models, at least make it an option.


aux electric heater? I have the electric heated seats, heated mirrors and rear defroster but I thought the optional electric engine heater for the diesel was only a block heater to be plugged into an extension cord to warm the oil so car would be easier to start???


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## raffmanlt (Oct 4, 2014)

colt45 so sorry you are having all the issues! I agree with you regardless of engine size or efficiency the engineers are quite capable of designing it so there are no heating issues as you mentioned other cars do not have that problem and believe me on a cold day i would still get burned if i touched the exhaust pipe. there is still plenty of wasted heat on any engine.

I have not had mine long but my complaint has actually been the cooling of the ac on hot days. It takes longer than i am used to to cool down initially but later is fine. occasionally seems to cool extremely well even when its turned way down, it actually starts making my joints ache after a while. seems kind of inconsistent....

the frustration with any large company is getting them to respond or correct problems, thank god they are not yet transferring us to india for support! that is one of the reasons i work on my own cars and find my own solutions sometimes but i rarely own a new vehicle under warranty so that puts me back at their mercy!

I will watch this thread in hopes of some resolution in your case.


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

In my 1,8 l Cruze the heat is really enough for driving in winter temperatures.
I have still tested it in -25C only this far, in last winter. But I'm happy with it.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

raffmanlt said:


> aux electric heater? I have the electric heated seats, heated mirrors and rear defroster but I thought the optional electric engine heater for the diesel was only a block heater to be plugged into an extension cord to warm the oil so car would be easier to start???


The diesel has an electric heater that activates when you turn the heat knob to the highest setting. Diesel engines usually make very poor heat, especially at idle.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt, here's hoping the dealer fix corrects your heating issues. If there is something wrong you can then look forward to dealing with a car that only puts out marginal heat (like the rest of us 1.4 owners) instead of one that puts out no heat at all.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

An auxiliary heater, the 12-volt ones, would stand no chance in our climate.

My brother just leased a Verano, but it has a different motor. We will see how he does.

As for putting the heat setting all the way up?? No way as that will drop my temp gauge right to the bottom, even in city traffic and there will be nothing but ice-cold air coming in the car. Even at 3000 RPM.

The dealer has covered any air inlets to try to improve operating temp, but the covers cannot be on until it is very cold.

I am very disappointed in my Cruze. I assume I just got a lemon, but it has turned me off of GM. As mentioned earlier, I was a diehard GM guy until I got a couple of Buick lemons a few years ago and went to Toyota. I had great luck with all my Toyotas, but always missed that "Chevy feel". This is why I gave them a chance.

I have little hope they will rectify this situation. Bottom line is a car that acts like my Cruze is very, very dangerous in this climate. I am tired of having to rent a car on cold days so that I don't have to worry about my wife driving blind.

My next step is to report it to NHTSA and Transport Canada, and count the days until my lease finally runs out. Then I will choose another brand of car. Not that it would be better, I just feel it would be crazy to go back to the well after such an experience.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> I have little hope they will rectify this situation.


Fingers crossed. Let us know how it works out.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Expat1983 said:


> I don't think I had any issues last Winter with my Cruze, I live in the Toledo OH area where we too got the worst winter on record. Rear windshield was always fogging up so the heated defrost ran a lot, I ended up with pretty dirty glass from all the moisture in the cabin. I have found that in extreme temperatures, I do have to run the fan at a a high setting but I attribute it to the tiny 1.4l.


Highest setting cools the air making it longer to heat the cabin. The faster the air moves the faster it cools down. I remember it being really cold last year. Cleveland had a select few -15*F -20*F nights where the OEM trans fluid froze till the car warmed up. So far I haven't had issues with the Amsoil but haven't seen less than 30*F yet.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Blue Angel said:


> Colt, here's hoping the dealer fix corrects your heating issues. If there is something wrong you can then look forward to dealing with a car that only puts out marginal heat (like the rest of us 1.4 owners) instead of one that puts out no heat at all.


Its only marginal if you try to max your fan and don't let the engine warm up fully first. I have found as long as I let the engine hit 180-200F, I can use up to fan speed 3 without it cooling off the car to much. 

Even on a -14F(-25C) day At 70mph I can put the fan on 4(max for my 2012) & monitoring engine temp I get no significant cooling at all(again as long as I let it warm up enough first).

The way the temp drops in the city idling parked even with low fan speed is the real issue with this car. At -10F(-23C) 4 minutes of idling starting at around 120F engine temps, I will have dropped 8F or more. Most cars would have gained that much ore more in that time frame. I attribute this to too large of a radiator for these conditons. Problem is with a smaller radiator the car may not have enough cooling in the summer time. 

Seems GM needs to make a winter front accessory for the cruze to block the grill, that fits all models.


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## iggy (Feb 14, 2013)

But... if the temp is at 120F, why would the size of the radiator mater? It's my understanding that the thermostat shouldn't be open at that point.

This also speaks directly to the OP's issue... and how even blocking off the entire radiator would help. 

I mean, I do understand that once the coolant in the engine gets up to temp, the thermostat will open and let in some of the colder coolant that had been only in the radiator, so I do understand that the moment the thermostat opens, there will be a drop in temperature of the coolant that goes through the engine and heater core. But it seems that while blocking the radiator off may help in some situations, it's not going to help too much if/when the coolant in the engine/heater never get high enough to open the thermostat.


Having said all that... when I first got my wife's Cruze and I started reading about things here, I thought I saw some information that would indicate that the Cruze has a electronically controlled thermostat... was that just my imagination?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

spacedout said:


> Its only marginal if you try to max your fan and don't let the engine warm up fully first...
> 
> ...Even on a -14F(-25C) day At 70mph I can put the fan on 4(max for my 2012) & monitoring engine temp I get no significant cooling...
> 
> ...The way the temp drops in the city idling parked even with low fan speed is the real issue with this car.


 I think your three statements highlight the condition perfectly.

My car heats up quick and pumps out great heat at 70mph. The problem, for me, is I drive with the cruise set to 70KM/H, not mph, which is only 43 MPH. At that low speed the engine is just not doing enough work to heat up quickly. Many mornings my car barely gets the needle on the gauge to its resting point by the time I get to work, and that's based on last year's commute; I'm in a new building that's even closer now, so on a really cold day it may not even get to its resting point. And we all know that resting point is not indicative of full operating temp. 

And that's using the oil pan heater, which measureably improves warm-up times!



spacedout said:


> Seems GM needs to make a winter front accessory for the cruze to block the grill, that fits all models.


Several have stated, and I tend to agree, the 1.4T at low operating speeds doesn't even need the radiator on cold days. Many people wouldn't even get the car to the point where the thermostat is letting coolant flow through the rad.

I have a full grille block in the winter, well, as full as it can be just sealing off the grille with vinyl. It does help, but only marginally. I suppose a tighter fitting shroud that fit directly on the rad would be even more effective, but that would be a PITA to install.

Stay tuned for my block heater thread... coming soon! I have 325W worth of oil heaters, a 1000W coolant heater, a Toyota Prius electric water pump and 13.5V power supply all lined up for immediate deployment underhood! I WILL have heat this year! Well, on the way TO work, anyway...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> My car heats up quick and pumps out great heat at 70mph. The problem, for me, is I drive with the cruise set to 70KM/H, not mph, which is only 43 MPH. At that low speed the engine is just not doing enough work to heat up quickly. Many mornings my car barely gets the needle on the gauge to its resting point by the time I get to work, and that's based on last year's commute; I'm in a new building that's even closer now, so on a really cold day it may not even get to its resting point. And we all know that resting point is not indicative of full operating temp. :smile:


Yes - on cold winter days (below 20F for us - we never got into the negatives here since I've had this car, but did get down to 0F last winter), I sometimes take a ~10 mile, 30 min drive across town at 25-45 speeds, or can take another, longer-mileage route that's 55-60 MPH on the Interstate. 

When I jump on the Interstate (~5 mins from my house, I will instantly be cranking out heat as the revs are always above 2000). If I take the other route, and stay up in 5th-6th gears at those speeds, I won't have *good* heat until about 8 miles or 20 mins in to the drive.

FWIW, our 2.5 liter Toyota runs very low revs as well, and I would say it only begins to make heat ~15-20% faster than the Cruze does. However, it does not drop off once warm.

Engines that warm up very, very quickly are wasting a lot of energy making heat. But sometimes, I miss that. My 5-cyl Volvo and V6 Toyota would roast you out of the car with the heater on high within about 3-5 minutes of starting the car, no matter what you were doing with them.


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## iggy (Feb 14, 2013)

If were talking about a fully functional Cruze, with no actual problems with the thermostat and such... There is probably only one practical solution... Put the car in manual mode , don't shift till you hit 3500RPM, ride most of the time at around 2000 to 30000RPM. If it's really cold , drive at a even higher RPM most of the time. 

Short of some sort of some sort of augmented heating system that isn't yet available for a non-diesel Cruze, I don't see any other solution, other then to force your car to stay at higher RPM then it would be if you were just leaving it in automatic and putting around town. Since, it's probably a pretty small market for people who live in places where you regularly stay at temperatures bellow -10F, I suspect that it would be a hard sell to get GM to engineer a solution. As others have stated, I doubt that this is only a problem on the Cruze, surely any other high millage cars have similar issues. Yes, some know the problem is a large enough one that they build something in at the factory, but it seems that GM doesn't yet feel this to be a big enough problem for them to build it in on all Cruze cars, or seemingly not even a big enough issue to make a optional component to add heat.

As I understand the original poster's problem, he feels that there is actually some sort of problem with his Cruze ( or his wife's ) that is different from other Cruze's that his local dealer has sold. Now if I am wrong about this, that it's a problem for virtually every Cruze that dealer sells and remains in that area ( where the really cold temperatures are ) then I go back to my original statements about the most likely ways to deal with the problem.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Engines that warm up very, very quickly are wasting a lot of energy making heat. But sometimes, I miss that. My 5-cyl Volvo and V6 Toyota would roast you out of the car with the heater on high within about 3-5 minutes of starting the car, no matter what you were doing with them.


Ha, my first car was an '85 Caddy Sedan DeVille that ran on 6 out of 8 cylinders on a good day. Even on the coldest days the automatic climate control would turn the heater on within a minute of starting up, instant heat. The defroster didn't work (HVAC selector vacuum thingies were broken) but I never even needed it with that car. What a pig! Comfy tho...


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

My first car was 1200 cc VW Beetle from 1962 and even that had enough heating when the heat exchangers were unbroken. In many Beetles they still were broken and then they were cold cars. Then we also had colder temperatures when nowadays, having -30...-40 C in winter many times. Still, though the heat came well, the windows were frozen because there was too little air circulation, but the air which came in was really hot. Later I had many other Beetles and the newer, the worst they were with the heating. Installing the fresh air intake made them cold. But the fact that a small engine can burn also more fuel and part of that can come as heat has turned into another way nowadays when the only thing which matters for everybody is the small fuel consumption. Then there is not any possibility to get enough heat, because the major amount of the small fuel consumption has to be used to move the car, not for heating. People don't buy cars which are made for bigger fuel consumption, even if they were better in other ways. And our fuel prices are much higher here than Yours there, so here people are thinking that even Cruzes are having too high fuel consumption. My 1,8 l is much better still in that way and I do not know how they are managed with those which have the 1,4 T engine, or the 1,6 l engine. Anyway, compared to my Range Rover with 3,5 l V8 Cruzes fuel consumption is almost only one third. For me the 1,8 l Cruze is just perfect.


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## iggy (Feb 14, 2013)

I remember the days of riding in my brothers VW... wow, you had to have ice scrapers for the inside windows. Of course, if there was any heat at all, it was in the back seat, cause the heating ducts going up to the front sure as heck weren't rust free...


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> I think your three statements highlight the condition perfectly.
> 
> My car heats up quick and pumps out great heat at 70mph. The problem, for me, is I drive with the cruise set to 70KM/H, not mph, which is only 43 MPH. At that low speed the engine is just not doing enough work to heat up quickly. Many mornings my car barely gets the needle on the gauge to its resting point by the time I get to work, and that's based on last year's commute; I'm in a new building that's even closer now, so on a really cold day it may not even get to its resting point. And we all know that resting point is not indicative of full operating temp.
> 
> ...


I wish you the best of luck with all your mods. Mods that should not have to be applied to a brand new car, of course! First blast of winter here yesterday and already putting up with the frozen windows and the nightmare that is this Chevy Cruze. My lease is up in 18 months, so only two more winters with this car and I will be getting something else. I do plan on putting in an official complaint with the government regarding this serious flaw, just to raise some awareness. I feel for people who buy a car like this. We are not rich people, if we were we would not drive a Cruze. Most Cruze owners are just regular working class people and cannot afford issues like this. For me now it is a case of teeth-gritting acceptance and more rental cars for winter highway travel.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> I wish you the best of luck with all your mods. Mods that should not have to be applied to a brand new car, of course!


Absolutely. To be completely fair to the Cruze, my two 1.9L Saturns weren't much better at warming up, generating poor heat for quite a while after starting on really cold days. They didn't cool down once they were warm, though... I guess the engines were just big enough to keep the heat flowing.



Colt45 said:


> For me now it is a case of teeth-gritting acceptance and more rental cars for winter highway travel.


Refresh my memory... do you have this issue even travelling at highway speeds? How fast do you drive and at what temperatures?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Absolutely. To be completely fair to the Cruze, my two 1.9L Saturns weren't much better at warming up, generating poor heat for quite a while after starting on really cold days. They didn't cool down once they were warm, though... I guess the engines were just big enough to keep the heat flowing.
> 
> 
> 
> Refresh my memory... do you have this issue even travelling at highway speeds? How fast do you drive and at what temperatures?


Back in college, we'd all pick a driver and pile in their car as a group to go places. I had a couple friends with 1.7L Civics, 1.8T VWs, and one with a Saturn (oh, and my 2L Honda). The Saturn took the cake for the worst heat of the bunch by a long shot, with mine coming in second. 

Once warm, a Honda will feel like there are flames coming out of the vents, but even the modern ones take ages to warm up.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Ha, in college I had my '96 SL2. I would drive for 15 minutes at 50-60 MPH and barely get anything resembling warm by the time I got to school.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> Absolutely. To be completely fair to the Cruze, my two 1.9L Saturns weren't much better at warming up, generating poor heat for quite a while after starting on really cold days. They didn't cool down once they were warm, though... I guess the engines were just big enough to keep the heat flowing.
> 
> Refresh my memory... do you have this issue even travelling at highway speeds? How fast do you drive and at what temperatures?


Always a problem, but less so if I am in the city for a long period of time. On the highway, forget about it. Within five minutes the temp gauge will drop to zero and the car freezes up solid. If I have the fan speed on one, it will stay warmer, but then that is not enough to keep windows clear. Over the Holidays, I rent a car because I do a lot of highway travel. Pretty much anything below zero degrees and it is toast.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Well, the one thing I hate is when I read twenty pages of a thread only to find that it ends with no solution. I will not be ;that guy'.

Back to the dealer this past Friday. Told right out that there is no fix for this problem, nor does GM care. They are simply ignoring customers with this problem, and there are lots of them locally. Evidently not a lot worldwide, so this is why GM has taken the "screw you few" approach.

The problem is also affecting the Trax. Same thing for those owners....nothing.

So, I would like to just ask you folks that when someone is on her inquiring about whether they should buy a Cruze or not, the first question should be "do you live in a cold climate"? If the answer is yes, then tell them not to. This problem will injure and kill people, and GM could not care less.

I am going to move forward with a couple of other avenues, then just make sure that I do all I can do to protect others from GM's latest "ignition switch" style issue. Seems they are handling this problem in the exact same manner.

I did not see anywhere in this thread where GM Customer Care offered to help. Interesting, ain't it??

Tired of it and I am angry and frustrated. The only word to describe this is "pathetic".

Thanks to all the folks who shared their knowledge, thoughts and ideas. This is a great forum.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt, that definitely sucks. I really wish there was something I could offer to help you out, but other than what's already been discussed here I can see that you don't have many options left.

On another (positive?) note, I'm working the bugs out of my new block heater setup. It actually works a little TOO good... causing the car to be confused running start-up diagnostics when pre-heated. With the outside temp hovering just below freezing, I turn on the ignition and I'm greeted by a temp gauge that's sitting at about the 8 o'clock position, comfortably off the cold "stop" at 9 o'clock (50 C), more than hot enough that holding a finger on the cylinder head is not possible due to the heat after about 1.5 hours.

I know that doesn't help you much...


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Colt45 said:


> Always a problem, but less so if I am in the city for a long period of time. On the highway, forget about it. Within five minutes the temp gauge will drop to zero and the car freezes up solid. If I have the fan speed on one, it will stay warmer, but then that is not enough to keep windows clear. Over the Holidays, I rent a car because I do a lot of highway travel. Pretty much anything below zero degrees and it is toast.


Someone is missing the boat at the shop.

If your temp goes DOWN at highway speeds it is an indicator of a thermostat being stuck open.

If the temp goes down during slow, cold, around town driving then the small engine being cooled by the heater core (and high fan speed) is the culprit and it seems like the majority of the 1.4's suffer this.

Back to the open thermostat though......if it is stuck open the coolant is going through the radiator at speed and just getting colder and colder.....no warm water left for the heater core.

I'm surprised you aren't getting a SES light.....usually a code is set that goes along the lines of coolant temp inconsistent with....nuts, can't remember.....but I have seen a code for this.

If you can't get a dealer to do this under warranty then, IMO, just pay for the job and get happy with the car.
What you described is not normal operation for this car.....it has heating problems in cold weather but not as you described.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> Okay, I have the exact same heating problem as you do. Spent another day today at the dealer and they changed the thermostat yet again. This is the second thermostat.


Rob, it would appear Colt has already had a couple thermostats replaced in a search for the cure.

Everything you're saying makes sense. My car is extremely slow to warm up on cold mornings, but that's mostly because of my EASY commute at 43 MPH (70 km/h). The car just doesn't generate any power at that speed so there's little waste heat in the cooling system.

When I get on the highway at 60 MPH or more it heats up real fast and pumps out GREAT heat... which makes Colt's issue that much more confusing. My Eco has shutters that block the lower grille opening at speed which will help a little, but if the thermostat isn't pulling cold coolant from the rad the car SHOULD warm up just fine regardless of how much cold air is getting into the front of the car.

Something's not right there.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Rob, it would appear Colt has already had a couple thermostats replaced in a search for the cure.
> 
> Everything you're saying makes sense. My car is extremely slow to warm up on cold mornings, but that's mostly because of my EASY commute at 43 MPH (70 km/h). The car just doesn't generate any power at that speed so there's little waste heat in the cooling system.
> 
> ...


Yeah, on this we agree.....one of those that you are just certain if a tech. took a bit of time to think out the problem it could be resolved with little brain damage.

On another note.....your short trip to work.....a suggestion that seems effective on my 2012 eco auto.

Try mode control at floor/dash position.
Close the dash vents (2) on the left side.....leave the two on the right side open.

Fan speed at 2 or 3.
Configured like this, even though the gauge has not moved from cold, I'm getting heat (not hot, just heat) from the right center (cant reach right outer) outlet in less than two miles.....reasonable heat within three miles.

Also, although I haven't looked into it yet, I just noted this year that when at speed, if I open the glove box, there is a ice cold breeze coming out of it......I suspect the cabin filter cover may not be sealing properly.
I'll report my findings once I feel like dumping the 5 pounds of useless BS I have stored in there.

Rob


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## Green (May 14, 2014)

Robby said:


> I'm surprised you aren't getting a SES light.....usually a code is set that goes along the lines of coolant temp inconsistent with....nuts, can't remember.....but I have seen a code for this.
> 
> Rob


Robby, P0128 sound familiar ?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Green said:


> Robby, P0128 sound familiar ?


It does....but I can't remember the verbage that goes with the code.

Rob


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Sure isn't my problem with my 2012 2TL 1.4L engine. Yes it took seven miles in the 35-45 mph speed ranges to hit 221*F on the DIC, but the ambient temperature was -27*F!

Above zero would normally hit that 221 mark in about 3 miles, but once it reaches that temperature, it stays there. This car will never hit this normally operating temperature at idle in cold weather, but even at super cold temperatures, get enough heat to clear up the windshield after a mile or so.

A problem with any high mpg vehicle with a tiny engine. But the way the OP Cruze is, definitely has a problem.

Looking at a 40 buck part.










And is an electrically controlled thermostat. Bit more expensive, but using top grade conventional thermostats are still in the 17-18 buck range and well worth the money since the cheaper ones may stay closed causing a drastic engine overheating problem.

If this doesn't solve the problem, can also be an electrical conductivity problem, or even the PCM may need reflashed. Have to let a dealer do this.

Shop manual is worthless for describing the operation of the thermostat, in cases like this, would have to play with it. Would assume a PWM voltage is applied to it and should be able to tell whether its opened or closed by blowing into it. Shop manual assumes its defective and just says to replace it.

Noted for making what I call thermostat soup, put a conventional thermostat in a pot of water with a cooking thermostat on top of the range and heat it. I want to see with my own eyes what temperature it opens and closes at. With some vehicles, can take over a half a day to change a thermostat and a hail of bad time to learn you purchased a defective one.

Also if you didn't know this, have to stick with those spring type hose clamps. Those screw type stainless are a big fat no with plastic. That plastic expands drastically and with the screw clamps, no give and that plastic will break. Not handy if you are on the road.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, also could have posted my old 50 CC moped had a heck of a long warm up time, these kind of posts are worthless, so why do people post them?


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## Rich+Cruze! (Apr 8, 2014)

It might not help with your thermostat issue, but defrosting your car is easier if you have an oil radiator in the back seat and an extension cord to plug in every morning.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

FWIW, Inrented a 2015 Cruze LT Automatic a few weeks ago for a work trip. That car warmed up WAY faster than my '12 Eco, but also used a lot more fuel in the process. After having that car for a week I thought very few people would be likely to have a heat issue with that car.

Colt I don't remember, is your car auto or stick? Have you ever tried borrowing another Cruze from the dealer to try out and see if it acts the same way yours does? From your description of the problem it seems it may be something wrong with your particular car.

Nick, IIRC the thermostat open temperature is still 176F or thereabouts with a 12V signal applied to the wax pellet. With no applied signal the opening temp is around 221F.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> FWIW, Inrented a 2015 Cruze LT Automatic a few weeks ago for a work trip. That car warmed up WAY faster than my '12 Eco, but also used a lot more fuel in the process. After having that car for a week I thought very few people would be likely to have a heat issue with that car.
> 
> Colt I don't remember, is your car auto or stick? Have you ever tried borrowing another Cruze from the dealer to try out and see if it acts the same way yours does? From your description of the problem it seems it may be something wrong with your particular car.
> 
> Nick, IIRC the thermostat open temperature is still 185F or thereabouts with a 12V signal applied to the wax pellet. With no applied signal the opening temp is around 221F.


Are you saying with no voltage applied to the thermostat is stays opened? Makes sense, because if you lose voltage, engine would quickly overheat. Had no reason to play with it, ha, getting too old, only play with stuff now when they need to be played with.

The opposite of this is if the transistor that drives it shorts out, thermostat would remain close, if this is the case with engine over heating, the plug can be pulled to disable it until proper repairs can be made.

Out of my own curiosity, I pulled the plug on mine and checked the DC resitance with a precision ohmmeter. Is 15.1 ohms. If erratic would apply 12V DC to it and let it heat watching the current draw. Typical of electrical connections to make good contact when cold, but due to heat expansion, this when they break open.

Saw two versions of this thermostat, one aluminum, other is plastic, mine is plastic. Not sure which one is better.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

NickD said:


> Are you saying with no voltage applied to the thermostat is stays opened?


No, the Cruze thermostat is a traditional wax pellet thermostat like any other, the only difference is that it's opening temperature can be reduced by applying a voltage to (and heating) the wax pellet.

0V = 221F opening temp
12V = 176F opening temp

Vauxhall Workshop Manuals > Astra J > Engine > Engine Cooling > Specifications > Engine Cooling System Specifications - 1.4L LDD and LUJ

With no signal it operates just like a conventional thermostat, just with a higher than usual 221F opening temp. IIRC, it's fully open by 239F.

The ECU applies a signal to the thermostat to reduce its opening temperature when the engine is under load. This keeps the coolant in the head from exceeding its thermal limit and boiling. Once the engine is no longer under a high load (i.e. when you're done climbing the hill), the signal is removed from the thermostat, the opening temp increases back to its usual set point, and coolant temp rises and stabilizes at its normal level, usually ~225-230F under most cruising conditions.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Car is an Automatic.

Thermostat has been changed twice. There are literally dozens of other customers here freaking out about the same issue as mine. There is even a Youtube video of an owner in Albert who's car exhibits the exact same issues as mine.

Last winter I spoke to a lady at the gas station who was literally in tears because her car was doing the same thing and nobody could fix it either.

As for my Dealership? They are extremely reputable and one of the highest volume dealers in Canada. They have gone above and beyond what anyone would expect from a dealer. I have had other issues fixed there (not just all the problems with the Cruze) pefectly, quickly and without ever having to take it back.

I spoke with GM Customer Service and they are saying that this issue is a surprise to them. 

Not sure why my particular car is so bad, but it is. GM will simply draw it out (like they did last winter) and do nothing until my lease expires and I go away. And I will go away. I will not buy another GM again. I know that there is no difference between brands for the most part, but I refuse to give them anymore of my hard-earned money and the countless hours of going back and forth to the dealer for the dozens of repairs this car has had.

If it was any other product, I would have been given a refund or compensated for this hassle in some manner. Unfortunately car companies seem to not have to do anything. My buddy's fridge from Home Depot was repaired twice for the same problem...on the third repair they simply sent him a new fridge.

When a car is dangerously defective, I cannot see why the same logic does not apply.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Here is a photo of that all metal one, indubitably a wax type, should have done my homework first, tend to think more complicated. Yeah, and just a nichrome heater element to fool the thermostat into thinking it running hotter for extra engind load conditions.

Now 40 bucks for a piece of plastic wax thermostate with a dimes worth of nichrome wire in it seem awfully expensive.

Replacing a POS thermostat with another POS thermostat is not a cure. See Chevy is using many different vendors for the same exact component. 

See you leased this car, not purchased it, what does the fine print of your lease say?


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

NickD said:


> Here is a photo of that all metal one, indubitably a wax type, should have done my homework first, tend to think more complicated. Yeah, and just a nichrome heater element to fool the thermostat into thinking it running hotter for extra engind load conditions.
> 
> Now 40 bucks for a piece of plastic wax thermostate with a dimes worth of nichrome wire in it seem awfully expensive.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure it has a "no mods" clause...but I will discuss this with my Service Manager as he is being driven nuts by tons of customers and is practically praying for a solution. Really appreciate the info!!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt, the engine losing heat at idle and easy driving is not what's confusing, that's well documented and well understood with the Cruze... what's confusing is how the car will not generate any heat at high speeds when the engine is working hard.

How fast are you driving on the highway and how cold is it when you aren't getting any heat? The faster you drive the more work the engine does, so the more heat is disposable for heating the interior. At -20C my Eco will roast me out of the car at highway speeds, and it is a much more efficient highway cruiser than a model with an automatic.

I can't blame you one bit for feeling the way you do. I wouldn't want to give any more money to a company that refused to help ME out with THEIR product either.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Another thought... I wonder how the car would react if there was a block off plate installed between the thermostat and water pump, litterally blocking flow from the radiator?

Yet another thought, and forgive me if this was already covered, but I wonder if there might be an issue with the blend door in the HVAC system? If the blend door wasn't moving into the proper position there would be cold outside air leaking in, dropping the temperature of the air going through the system.

Just thinking out loud...


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

60 MPH, -10 or colder. If I leave fan speed on 1, the heat is warmer and the gauge stays up longer. Problem is, the windows freeze over due to the low fan-speed. So I turn it up to 3 or 4, and the gauge will drop almost to 0, and the air coming out of the vents is cold. Then there is nothing I can do. I can't see at that point, so I pull over. With the car at idle in park, the gauge does not move and there is no heat. So I am stuck. Can't drive because I can't see, can't sit on a service road all day either. So I scrape the inside of the windows and roll down the side windows if I have to turn or check a mirror...which in -30 on the highway is very, very unpleasant.

When I drive it, I keep it in a lower gear in the city and it helps. But my wife is simply not comfortable doing that and I don't blame her. This is not a 1927 Model T. If she wanted a manual trans, I would have gotten her one. I also worry about warranty issues if something goes BANG from driving it in lower gears. The engine or trans pops, they pull the data and say, well, you were driving in second at 25 MPH, therefore the damage is your fault.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> 60 MPH, -10 or colder. If I leave fan speed on 1, the heat is warmer and the gauge stays up longer. Problem is, the windows freeze over due to the low fan-speed. So I turn it up to 3 or 4, and the gauge will drop almost to 0, and the air coming out of the vents is cold. Then there is nothing I can do. I can't see at that point, so I pull over. With the car at idle in park, the gauge does not move and there is no heat. So I am stuck. Can't drive because I can't see, can't sit on a service road all day either. So I scrape the inside of the windows and roll down the side windows if I have to turn or check a mirror...which in -30 on the highway is very, very unpleasant.


That's CRAZY. -10C (14F for the US folk) is not cold at all, there's no way in HECK you should be able to pull the engine temp down driving a steady 60 MPH just by using the heater fan. There's DEFINITELY something wrong with your car.



Colt45 said:


> When I drive it, I keep it in a lower gear in the city and it helps. But my wife is simply not comfortable doing that and I don't blame her. This is not a 1927 Model T. If she wanted a manual trans, I would have gotten her one. I also worry about warranty issues if something goes BANG from driving it in lower gears. The engine or trans pops, they pull the data and say, well, you were driving in second at 25 MPH, therefore the damage is your fault.


The auto should heat up quicker than a manual car, all else equal.

Agreed 100%, your wife (or anyone for that matter) should be able to drive it like any other car. No excuses.

I wouldn't worry about harming the car and not having warranty coverage. The power train is chock full of safety programming measures to keep people from being able to damage anything no matter how hard they try. Drive it around in 2nd gear if you want, if it gets you the heat you need and you don't mind burning the extra gas.

Man, what a crappy situation. Friends of ours have a '14 LT automatic, their second Cruze (first one was totaled in an accident and there was no question they absolutely wanted another Cruze), the next time I talk to them I'll ask if they ever have issues with heat in the winter. The LT automatic rental I had a few weeks ago warmed up great, though it wasn't all that cold out, just around -8 to -10C.

How many winters left in your lease?


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

This winter and next. The lease is up in March 2016. These are Canadian winters though....start in October and finish in May! LOL!!! Wish I was kidding about that, but I am not.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> This winter and next. The lease is up in March 2016. These are Canadian winters though....start in October and finish in May! LOL!!! Wish I was kidding about that, but I am not.


At this point I would probably be looking for GM or even another brand to offer to buy out the lease and put you in another vehicle that you'd be much happier with. Honestly surprised some sort of deal in your favor hasn't been offered by your selling dealer.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> At this point I would probably be looking for GM or even another brand to offer to buy out the lease and put you in another vehicle that you'd be much happier with. Honestly surprised some sort of deal in your favor hasn't been offered by your selling dealer.


At this point I am looking at buying the wife a new Camry, and parking the Cruze. I will use it in the summer and then dump it back to them at the end of the lease and say goodbye to GM. The amount of time this crap takes is just no longer worth it to me.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> At this point I am looking at buying the wife a new Camry, and parking the Cruze. I will use it in the summer and then dump it back to them at the end of the lease and say goodbye to GM. The amount of time this crap takes is just no longer worth it to me.


Just FWIW...the 2.5 liter in our 2012 Camry takes a really, really long time to warm up...about as long as the Cruze in city driving. Once it's warm, it stays warm though. 

If you go this route, I would highly recommend a V6 model and steer clear of the I4. I have been fed up with the transmission in her car - Toyota finally addressed its crappy shifting I've been fighting with for 3 years 2 weeks ago and it is the happiest I have ever been with the car (after several software updates and a torque converter replacement). The I4 engines are dropping transmissions like crazy on the forums; the V6 is an older, heartier design. I don't think the transmission has even been changed for the 15 model; owners are still reporting shudders and flares in between gears. The hybrid has a good track record as well. 

They did extend the warranty on that to 10 years/150k though, so at least there is that.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

That is good info. I am not of the belief that any manufacturer is better than another. I just can't imagine giving GM anymore money. Older Toys were bullet proof. I had three of them, all 200K miles each without any serious issues. Nowadays, not so much. I would go V6 for sure though.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> That is good info. I am not of the belief that any manufacturer is better than another. I just can't imagine giving GM anymore money. Older Toys were bullet proof. I had three of them, all 200K miles each without any serious issues. Nowadays, not so much. I would go V6 for sure though.


They sure were. Her old '02 V6 still feels like a better built car than this one was brand-new.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Ew, y'all and yer toys.

Sorry -J.


Vote for Carly for December COTM!!


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

'99 4Runner, 300K miles. '01 Camry, 200K miles. In the entire time I owned the Camry, I only did front brakes and an EGR. Even the original Made In Japan lightbulbs were in the tail lights. Crazy. But they got stupid too.

Every car has problems, make/model not withstanding. There used to be "Friday" cars that were built sloppily by humans. Now there are what I call "Not Calibrated" cars....meaning you got the car built by the robot who was overdue for calibration.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> '99 4Runner, 300K miles. '01 Camry, 200K miles. In the entire time I owned the Camry, I only did front brakes and an EGR. Even the original Made In Japan lightbulbs were in the tail lights. Crazy. But they got stupid too.
> 
> Every car has problems, make/model not withstanding. There used to be "Friday" cars that were built sloppily by humans. Now there are what I call "Not Calibrated" cars....meaning you got the car built by the robot who was overdue for calibration.


You hit em both in their prime. 

Heck, just buy another 4Runner. Hasn't changed too much.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Loved the 4Runner, but it wasn't car or truck enough. I couldn't pull my big trailer and it drank too much gas as a city commuter. It was the best thing I ever had for ice-fishing though.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

From what I've heard, the biggest problem with the Camry isn't mechanical. The drivers lack stimulation to the point they fall asleep at the wheel. In extreme cases, one can slip into a comatose state by just looking at a Camry in their driveway.

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> From what I've heard, the biggest problem with the Camry isn't mechanical. The drivers lack stimulation to the point they fall asleep at the wheel. In extreme cases, one can slip into a comatose state by just looking at a Camry in their driveway.
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.


Hey, I almost did that yesterday! On a 5 hour trip. Blah.

If it's going to be boring, it should at LEAST stay out of the shop!!!

I will say that having a Corolla rental for a week made me appreciate the Camry (and especially its competitor, the Cruze) about 573 times more. Ugh. What a turd.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

During the 80's, entire family was driving Toyota's, Honda's, and Nissan's, were very good cars, ha, my Supra is a 1988. But this all changed in 1991 when the Japanese devaluated the buck. And as far as I am concerned making the same kind of junk we were, but at much higher prices.

Now tell me, doesn't that Camry look exactly like a Cruze except for the grille? Same uniibody only good for one crash and they rust out just as quick. Last family member to buy a Toyota was in 1995, brother-in-law couldn't do his own work, too far from me, so was being robbed blind by his Toyota dealer, so went back to domestic. 

Since my youngest son is working in Japan, tells me the people their are really hurting, outsourcing even more than we are.

South Korea is really growing, my niece went there after graduating from college and sent me photos of Seoul, makes our cities look like dumps. She didn't last long, a prejudice against white people, don't have much of a military, we are still paying for that after some 60 odd years. But the quality is becoming excellent. Kicked around buying a Hyundai, a 60K bumper to bumper warranty was very attractive. But still had $4,700 on my GM card. Couple of my kids are driving Hyundai's and they love them. 

Sure took over our ship building industry, in particular on the west side of Lake Michigan, looks like a wrecking yard now with extremely high unemployment. 

So there you have it, South Korea, Japan, well they own our entertainment business, and now China with zero tariffs. But sure have this with the likes of European countries. Not sure what happened to the UK, they were way ahead of us in the electronic field, use to buy Mullard vacuum tubes from them. Finest tubes in the world and loved British sports car, way ahead of us in the 50's. Ha, was all set to purchase an MG from them, was saving up the cash, I think this was in 76, but suddenly the price increased by another 1,200 bucks due to a newly imposed tariff. 

TI was a great semiconductor company and got the patent on the integrated circuit and spend over 30 years in Japan claiming infringement, but lost. Had to be done in Japanese courts. I don't get this at all and really hit home how corrupt our government is. According to our patent law, its okay for a foreign country to steal one of our patents, but not allowed to export their goods into this country. That was overlooked. Want to find real criminals? Look no further than Washington D.C. 

Impossible for us to get a patent in Japan, but for every US patent we have in this country, the Japanese have at least ten. An issue was never made when Clinton received campaign contributions from China, but sure was when somebody was sucking on this thing. Under Bush and Obama, imports from China greatly increased, and goodbye to even more US jobs.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, back on topic was not easy to find a closed cabin Model T Ford, even my old 1933 Buick did not have a heater. But somehow jumped up to a 37 Olds that not only had a heater but an AM radio as well. Not sure of the exact year heaters were added to cars.

Was almost next to worthless anyway, an open fan motor with two hoses that took up space in the passenger side, and maximum thermostats were 160*F. But sure was a fight for anyone to sit in that so-called death seat. 

Until around the mid 80's or so, all heaters used a cable driven hot water valve that would completely cut off hot water to the heater. 82 P-30 Chevy motorhome still uses this, forgot how difficult it was to adjust these, very slow responding, either too hot or too cold. Had to remember just to notch it a tad.

This gave away to an always hot heater core and very much apart of the engine cooling system. And uses a blend door for heat control that is instantaneous. All the air goes through the evaporator then to the blend door. Where it is either completely bypassed or goes through the heater core or anywhere in between. When bypassed, air temperature from the vents should be the same as the ambient. Lots of guys had what they thought was AC problems if that door didn't completely closed.

Even during the summer months while the heater core is not aiding the coolant system, it still is part of the route for properly cooling the engine. If this heater core is plugged up, a portion of the engine would overheat and can even crack an aluminum heat while your temperature gauge is reading normal. 

Its for this reason, even during hot summer months, I increase the temperature by opening the blend door, just for a few seconds to make sure that air is red hot. Tells me the heater core is not blocking coolant flow. Why don't they put this in the manual? Do this every couple of days. If the air is cool, have a plugged heater core, not good.

In deep subzero weather, I switch to recir mode for the first couple of miles, but not for long as he windshield fogs up, then switch it off. Even in deep subzero weather, my Cruze will bake me out with the blend door at maximum. No more than midway. But doesn't have any effect on the engine temperature, still stays at 221*F at highway speeds.

At idle, that temperature will drop to the quarter range, if you want full heat, have to hit the gas pedal to around 2,000 rpm.

This is the way it should work, something sure is wrong with the OP's Cruze. Thermostat is most likely suspect.

One question, when a new one was installed, did it even work for a couple of days?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

NickD said:


> Sure isn't my problem with my 2012 2TL 1.4L engine. Yes it took seven miles in the 35-45 mph speed ranges to hit 221*F on the DIC, but the ambient temperature was -27*F!


Doesn't your car sit in an unheated garage at night? Your car starting temperature was probably around 25-40F, In the same conditions with a car that sits outside 100% of the time will take significantly longer to warm up. At -20F or lower it takes 15 minutes of driving to get up to 220F, even leaving the fan speed on 1 & heat dial halfway(45-60mph). 

7 miles at 60mph in those ultra cold temps I'm usually just getting to 170-180F. Takes another 7 miles to get the rest of the way warmed up.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Make a point, but before I insulated my garage would have been -27*F, but more like 17, OP is reporting 14*F so close enough.

Have 1.5 miles at 25 mph, 3 miles at 35, and another 1.2 miles at 45 mph before I hit the freeway. Four left turns and eight traffic lights for whatever reason, a third of those turn red without another vehicle in site. But still hit 220*F by the time I got to the interstate.

Use to live 1 1/2 blocks one way from a 55 mph speed limit, an nine blocks from another with two lane roads, But then the DOT came into town with a divided highway, added a whole bunch of traffic lights that were never here before, huge mercury vapor lights every 200 feet, then dropped the speed limits to 35.

Read the same thing happened in LA where it takes an hour longer to cross town, call this progress. Cops are stopping many people on our new Veterans Expressway for not switching on their head lamps, ha, brighter at night than in the daytime. And not just for vets, anyone can use it, expressway is a very bad joke.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

All of these reports about people who's Cruze generate lots of heat in the coldest WI winters (dam cold BTW!) is all but certified evidence there's something wrong with Colt45's car. I think I'm going to stop by my local dealer's parts dept and get real intimate with a Cruze thermostat or three.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Heck, last Sunday was 45*F, tee shirt weather, week before -2*F. All depends on the direction of the winds. A summer ago, we hit 105*F, this summer was cool. Always has been this way, even before Al Gore came along.

Wind patterns are least understood by meteorologists. Al Gore is a moron, and Obama thinks he is some kind of second savior to this earth. That makes Obama a moron.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Even in the coldest weather I've seen here (lots of single digits last year, down to 0F one day), as long as I can get above 1/4 on the temp gauge, I've never had too much of a problem with heat. Depending on the outside temp, just getting up to 150-160 can take a while if I'm idling at stoplights a lot...which I pretty much always am. Sure, I'll never warm up past 180 in cold temperatures - my car sometimes doesn't even do that in the 20s-30s on 20-30 min drives, but at fan speed 2-3, that's toasty enough.

And yeah, I really don't understand how his car keeps cooling down on the highway unless the thermostat is just sticking open (maybe ECU is shorting the heater for wax ring in the thermostat??? Idk). Mine becomes a little toaster inside in like 2 miles of highway driving.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> And yeah, I really don't understand how his car keeps cooling down on the highway unless the thermostat is just sticking open (maybe ECU is shorting the heater for wax ring in the thermostat??? Idk). Mine becomes a little toaster inside in like 2 miles of highway driving.


A week ago or so when driving at 55mph once I got my car up to 190-200F, turned my fan from 1 to 4(max for 2012). After only 1-2 minutes I had lost almost 15F engine temperature. As long as I only ever use fan speed 1-2 I have no problems maintaining heat, also once warmed up I can't even have the temperature dial much past half way up as it will cook me out of the car. 

Tons of hills around where I live I have found these can significantly decrease my warmup times. 3 blocks from my house is a mile long hill with 300ft elevation change. Today it was 23F outside, was up to 180F by the top in under 4 minutes.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Holy schmoly that was a lot of reading. A lot of funny stuff.

First up, I totally agree that a Camry is an appliance.

It may have something to do with our climate in particular. I am not the only one here in my town with the problem. When I asked the Service Manager how many other people are complaining, he said "all of them" and went on further to say that it is also the Trax as well.

My car is in a non-heated garage, but the block heater is plugged in. It is started 20 minutes prior to driving it, and the fan speed is left on low.

Yesterday my wife blew a fuse because she was late for a doctor's appointment because she could not get the car to defrost. She had run it for 30 minutes prior to driving it. 

I have just come to accept it, but I will have to get the wife another car. Sonata and Camry are high on my list at this point. This time, I will rent one for her for a couple of weeks in the cold weather to make sure all is okay before dropping $40,000 on a car.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> Holy schmoly that was a lot of reading. A lot of funny stuff.
> 
> First up, I totally agree that a Camry is an appliance.
> 
> ...


Was it your wife or her Cruze that blew a fuse?

If you are planning on spending $40K could try a 6.2L Siverado. My 7.4L Chevy heats up really quick and even hits full temperature at idle with the heater on full blast. And it doesn't have any of that idle control crap, even with a huge York AC compressor. It doesn't even know the AC was turned on and doesn't care.

My camshaft cover bolts became loose again, kicked out a P071 code. Got out a torx socket and tightened them up again.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

NickD said:


> Was it your wife or her Cruze that blew a fuse?
> 
> If you are planning on spending $40K could try a 6.2L Siverado. My 7.4L Chevy heats up really quick and even hits full temperature at idle with the heater on full blast. And it doesn't have any of that idle control crap, even with a huge York AC compressor. It doesn't even know the AC was turned on and doesn't care.
> 
> My camshaft cover bolts became loose again, kicked out a P071 code. Got out a torx socket and tightened them up again.


The wife blew a fuse, not the Cruze!! LOL!!!

Where I live, a truck like that would be $25,000 more than what you guys would pay. A fully loaded Camry is more than $40,000 here when you factor in taxes and other socialist BS (that is another conversation that nobody wants to have with me).

I believe my Cruze would have been almost $30,000 if I bought it outright.


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## Duvall (Mar 14, 2014)

Fixed


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Would be nicer if one of those burning logs fell onto the seat. I could try to put the fire out with a gas-can!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Duvall said:


> Fixed
> 
> View attachment 126730


This makes much more sense when you find out just how difficult it is to put a heater core in one of those old Volvos.


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## Duvall (Mar 14, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> This makes much more sense when you find out just how difficult it is to put a heater core in one of those old Volvos.


I wouldn't think its much more difficult than one for a Foxbody Mustang.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Colt45 said:


> My car is in a non-heated garage, but the block heater is plugged in. It is started 20 minutes prior to driving it, and the fan speed is left on low.
> 
> Yesterday my wife blew a fuse because she was late for a doctor's appointment because she could not get the car to defrost. She had run it for 30 minutes prior to driving it.



My car sits outside and I have barely any frost on the windows to speak of when I go to drive. Are you leaving wet floormats in the car? I used to deal with this allot more, until I bought husky liners. Much easier to remove a chunk of ice in the AM or pour off water after driving. Wet floormats the fist winter in the cruze caused frost on the inside of the windows. 

I also bought weathertech vent visors so I can leave the windows cracked ever so slightly, that way my breath doesn't cause any frost on the windows when the car is still cold. Even with 4 people in a cold car with all of them cracked I get no window fogging. 

Car warms up 1000X faster driving, your wifes 30 minute idle session was entirely unnecessary. Sure when that cold I use remote start for 5-8minutes, engine is up to 110F by the time I head outside. After that I drive 3 miles(even in the city) I'm up to 165F where heat starts to build. 

The key with my car is to leave the heater controls and fan alone, on fan 1 once it warms up it will cook you out of the car. Sure even when the engine first is up to 200F+ it may still be a bit cold in the car, but 5 more minutes of driving it starts to really get hot. Turing the fan up even at this point will start to cool off my car. If I use a faster fanspeed I need to be going 75mph or only use it for a few minutes. 

I almost never change my heater settings, always with temp dial just past half way, Defrost/floor setting fan 1.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

spacedout said:


> My car sits outside and I have barely any frost on the windows to speak of when I go to drive. Are you leaving wet floormats in the car? I used to deal with this allot more, until I bought husky liners. Much easier to remove a chunk of ice in the AM or pour off water after driving. Wet floormats the fist winter in the cruze caused frost on the inside of the windows.
> 
> I also bought weathertech vent visors so I can leave the windows cracked ever so slightly, that way my breath doesn't cause any frost on the windows when the car is still cold. Even with 4 people in a cold car with all of them cracked I get no window fogging.
> 
> ...


Floor mats are dry. Window is always open a bit. Even overnight when it is parked in the garage. On Saturday on the highway, I drove behind a Cruze and the lady's husband was scraping the inside of the windshield with a credit card because their's was frozen solid too. Spoke to my dealer today and they have a customer demanding a full refund on their 2014 Trax for the same reason.

There is a serious defect in SOME of these Cruze's and Trax vehicles with the 1.4 liter. Whether it is something to do with the recirc, an antifreeze team-up issue, nobody knows. Not even GM. They don't know either. I have been taking pictures of my vehicle now, including the outside temp display. Ultimately, I will go after them somehow for this. Maybe they will do the right thing and swap out the car, or offer me compensation for my inconvenience and for the times when we have to rent or cab it because the car is not driveable. I highly doubt it though. They would rather pretend there is no issue and once it they get caught, send some hams to some widows and do a teary press release....just like the ignition switch and intake gasket debacle.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> On Saturday on the highway, I drove behind a Cruze and the lady's husband was scraping the inside of the windshield with a credit card because their's was frozen solid too.


I was thinking about this over the last couple days since talking to my brother, who was home for the holidays from Edmonton Alberta.

He was saying that, although it gets much colder _temperature-wise_ out there, often hitting -40C/F plus wind chill, he said the weather in Southern Ontario felt just as cold or colder and it was only a few degrees below freezing. What's the difference? HUMIDITY. His winters in Northern Alberta are very dry, where we have quite a lot of humidity here.

This got me thinking about my Cruze and how on some days it fogged up so easily, and on others wouldn't fog up at all. I think this car is extremely sensitive to the RELATIVE HUMIDITY of the outside air.

Colt, being on the East Coast I bet your weather is quite humid overall compared to what we see here. If that's the case, based on what I've observed I would bet you (and the Cruze) are more a victim of Relative Humidity levels than thermometer temperature. We have a '11 BMW 323i that has absolutely no issues with fogging up, ever it seems. My first car was an '85 Cadillac DeVille with broken HVAC controls, and even with no ability to turn on the defroster vents I could have 8 people in the car (don't ask) and no foggy windows, even in winter. Both my Saturns fogged up like crazy, and my Cruze isn't much better, if any. On a dry day I have no fogging to speak of, but on a damp day I need to run the AC to keep the windows clear... which isn't an option as soon as it's below freezing as the AC doesn't engage at low temps.

I wonder if there's some fundamental difference in the way the HVAC systems in different cars are set up that would cause one to be more immune to RH than another?

Rob, any thoughts? I haven't seen a Cruze shop manual to see how it's plumbed, but I don't know how it could/would be set up any different that it would be more/less sensitive? I might just have to look into that...


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

All very valid points!! Discussed humidity with my dealer today....something is steaming them windows, but the outside air when it is -30 is drier than a popcorn fart. This is how we got on the topic of recir problems. The car itself making moisture through recirculating damp air.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Well, my thoughts are also in line with the potental of recirculate not fully off.

Easy enouph to see.....you can watch the flapper door open and close with the glove box door removed.

It must be something along these lines because some operators have the problem, others, myself included, do not, even though we are operating in similar, cold/high humidity environments.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh, and before I forget, here's a few pics I snapped of the thermostat gizzards.

Fully assembled, looking from the water pump side:



With the retainer and spring removed:



A closeup of the vent valve:



That little ball in the valve is supposed to keep coolant from flowing through the thermostat while allowing air pockets to escape (as far as I know anyway). If the main plunger (silver) is seating against the body (black plastic housing) and the vent has a ball in it, there should be no flow through the thermostat until it reaches its set opening temperature.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> Well, my thoughts are also in line with the potental of recirculate not fully off.
> 
> Easy enouph to see.....you can watch the flapper door open and close with the glove box door removed.


I'm going to be checking that out next... good point!


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Lots of posts about window fogging and frosting, so I thought I would bump this thread up because there is so much good info in it.

In short, if you are in a northern climate, forget about it. The car cannot safely function and you will either park it or prepare to scrape the inside of the windows every time you drive. 

-There is no fix. 

-GM will not help you.


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## Stimlad (Dec 10, 2014)

That was the final analysis on my Cruze with the same issue. From the Service Manager at a certified Chevy Dealership who spoke with a Engineer at GM: "The engine is just too small and cannot keep up in the cold temps." There is supposedly an open case left now with GM if a fix is ever found.... Sorry folks. If your windows fog or frost up, you're screwed..


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Stimlad said:


> That was the final analysis on my Cruze with the same issue. From the Service Manager at a certified Chevy Dealership who spoke with a Engineer at GM: "The engine is just too small and cannot keep up in the cold temps." There is supposedly an open case left now with GM if a fix is ever found.... Sorry folks. If your windows fog or frost up, you're screwed..


Thanks for the correct, albeit pathetic, reinforcement there.

GM should not be allowed to sell a car like this. I hope anyone who is considering buying one of these cars and lives in a cold climate, sees these threads and stays away.

I sure wish I would have known, I never would have bought an unsafe car like this for my family.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Colt45 said:


> I sure wish I would have known, I never would have bought an unsafe car like this for my family.


Colt, I responded to your PM.

After finding an issue with both my own car as well as the car of another member, I believe there IS something wrong with your car and that lack of heat and interior condensation may be two separate issues being confused into one.

Low heat in the Cruze is nothing new, and as everyone knows it's a small engine that takes a while to heat up unless you're on the highway working it hard. No heat is NOT a reason to have condensation in the car.

My car was frozen up REALLY good, to the point where all four of my windows were frozen shut from the INSIDE. I had 1/8" of ice built up on the inside of my driver's side rear window, and the rear window was frozen over completely and wouldn't clear even with constant use of the rear defroster. This was after a half hour on the highway with the heat BLASTING. This was Friday Jan. 16th, just over a week ago. It was -20C (-4F).

I pulled into a gas station and pulled my glovebox out and removed the cabin air filter. This allows a good view of the two flaps that control the recirculation control flaps, and the actuator gear that operates them.

On my car, the flaps were out of sync with the command from the HVAC controls; when the control was in recirc mode the fresh air flap was open, and when the control was in fresh air mode both flaps were closed, meaning the fan was pulling in mostly recirculated air.

By manually resetting the position of the actuator by spinning the gear, I was able to get the flaps in sync with the dash controls.

*My car is now frost free, and travelling with 3 people in the car requires nothing more than fan speed 2 and fresh air to keep the cabin clear.*

I encourage ANYONE with condensation/frost issues to either check this out for themselves, or take this information to their dealer and have them verify the correct function of the flaps and actuator. Looking at the flaps it is very obvious how they are supposed to operate, and very clear if they are not operating properly.

Another Cruzetalk member reported having this issue with his car. I checked it out and the actuator was not moving through the proper range of motion. In his case, the actuator will not move far enough to properly select between the recirc modes.

There appears to be no feedback circuit from the actuator to the HVAC controls, since the car has no idea what position the flaps are in. The control seems to give a signal to the actuator and just assume it moves to the proper position.

If you are having an issue with excessive condensation or frosting in your Cruze, please file a complaint:

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

Letting the NHTSA know you have an issue, even if it has been fixed by your dealer, will put a spotlight on this potentially dangerous issue. If further action is required to ensure other cars are safe, they can proceed but only if they know about it.

I will try to get some pics and/or a video of how to check this out later this week.


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## iamthedruman (Nov 11, 2014)

Great point Blue Angel. I am going to check mine as I have to keep the defrost on all of the time these days in this stoopid-cold weather. Was starting to wonder if something was wrong as the Cruze is worse than my old 2005 Focus.

Aside: We're from the same town Blue Angel! I'm out in Kanata. We'll have to do a meet-up sometime once the ice n' snow are gone.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

iamthedruman said:


> Aside: We're from the same town Blue Angel! I'm out in Kanata. We'll have to do a meet-up sometime once the ice n' snow are gone.


I just drove through there on my way back from Toronto Yesterday. If I'd have known I could have stopped in and had a look! If you're ever out this way and want a hand checking it out let me know.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Blue.....you should start a new thread with this info and get it stickied....so many people with this problem and if the repair is that easy, most can do it themselves.

Thanks!!!!!


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

This morning, started off at 11 degrees F, car was in the garage overnight. With my front grill completely covered up and my fan on auto the whole time from the beginning, my temp never went over 180 until I hit the highway. Then I got up to 200ish, and traffic slowed down, and so did my temps. I hovered about 185-190 for the rest of the trip in to work, tuned of course. I could have gotten more heat if I shut the fan off for a period, but this way knocked the chill off perfectly.


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## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

Maybe one of these would help for city drivers:


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

I posted in the Service Issues forum, a few videos and a quick how-to for those with moisture issues:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...e-condensation-frost-windows.html#post1666193


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Hope this upload works....sent to me by my Service Manager. The guy is really trying to help.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Had the the HVAC checked today on the car as per these instructions. Everything is functioning as per spec. So, unfortunately not the issue with my Cruze, unless it is intermittent, or only happening in extreme cold.

On a much more positive note, only one more year left on the lease of this piece of crap. Looking forward to walking away from this car and so glad I did not buy it outright.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Looks like GM has some homework to do regarding cars with small engines being sold on the very cold and very humid East Coast.

I wonder if other makers are having similar issues with small turbo engine cars?


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

They sure do....and motors are getting smaller. Saw one advertised today with a 1.0 liter motor. Don't ask me what make it was, I can't recall. So IF, big IF, the issue is displacement, then manus will have to come up with a solution.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Looks like GM has some homework to do regarding cars with small engines being sold on the very cold and very humid East Coast.
> 
> I wonder if other makers are having similar issues with small turbo engine cars?


Dodge Darts can't stay running long enough for the owners to actually find out 

I do wonder about the 1.0/1.5 Fords though.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Back in the late 90's we took a 92 Geo Metro 5m base in trade......it was flawless and cheap....I decided to make it my DD for awhile.
Good little runner.....usually in the 50 mpg range, it was sportin the mighty 998cc 3cyl with F.I. YEAH BABY!

However, that first winter.....if you folks ever operated one of these you would never say a bad thing about the Cruze heater again.
Once up to operating temperature (long drive) it would run you out of the car....heat was extroardinary.....till any stoplight longer than about 45 seconds.
Even at low fan speeds you could watch the needle head for the 'C'.....FAST.....sometimes I'd hold it at 1500 rpm to keep up with the loss because if it went down too far the entire reheat process began again.
So, in this case, the omnipotent Japanese (Geo was a Suzuki btw) couldn't stop a efficient engine from being efficient and the heater core sucked the heat right out of it.

My sons 13 Honda Civic SI displays the same characteristics, so it isn't much more than a small engine giving up what little heat it can make....same as my earlier example and the Cruze.

Rob


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> My sons 13 Honda Civic SI displays the same characteristics, so it isn't much more than a small engine giving up what little heat it can make....same as my earlier example and the Cruze.


Isn't the Si a 2.4? Accords with the same motor don't have that problem - they just take a long while to heat up.

They do have issues with thermostats, though, at least the earlier K24's.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Robby said:


> so it isn't much more than a small engine giving up what little heat it can make.


Maybe time for manufacturers to add auxiliary heat. I wonder what Volt, Prius and Leaf drivers are doing.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Even highly efficient engines make more than enough waste heat for cabin heating, if you include the heat lost in the exhaust. Problem is, the industry has not (yet) considered this a financially viable option.

Using exhaust heat to warm the engine's coolant is something I predict as a widespread thing in the not too distant future. The Prius has already used this in the past, and GM will be implementing this on a far less advanced level with their new Gen0 engine family with the integral exhaust manifold (turbo bolts directly to the cylinder head).

The problem with GMs implementation is it has limits; the more heat pulled from the exhaust before the catalytic converter, the longer it takes to warm the cat and cold start emissions are affected.

Tightening CAFE requirements are gradually squeezing car companies into spending more money to get these ancient air pumps we call engines to use fuel more efficiently. The more efficient they are, and the more efficient the vehicles are that they're dragging around, the less waste heat there will be in the cooling system.

Time to step it up, fellas.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

I still have difficulty buying the whole "displacement is the cause" argument. Even the tiniest motor gives of off a ton of heat. The 1.4 can produce ample heat for the cabin. The real issue here is that to do so is probably the cost of doing it. Bottom line is that there is only a tiny percentage of people who live in these kind of climate, so the manus don't give a ****. Going forward, I will go back to a huge displacement motor, like the 1.8 or the 2.2 in my Toyotas. They have heat like crazy. Yet only 0.4 litres larger....go figure.

It is not a displacement issue. It is an engineering mistake. For some reason, probably due to dodgy quality control, some are worse than others.

GM should have offered to do something for me other than make me take the car back to the dealer a dozen times, hoping I would tire of it. It worked. I am tired of it. I logged my formal complaint with Transport Canada, and will enjoy the next six months of the Cruze...then the last 6 months of scraping the inside windows and simply not driving the car at all. But, GM need not worry, they will get my lease payment as per usual. I hope they enjoy it because they will never get another penny from me again. The next car will be anything other than GM. Don't care what. 

As an unrepairable car, and one that they were saying is the only one with this problem to this degree, why didn't they offer me a replacement? Even a demo with the same mileage. I am not looking for a bonanza here, I am looking to have a car safety-worthy enough to earn my lease payment. I'll tell you why - they don't care. They have not changed, nor will they.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Well folks, funny how time flies. I will turn in my 2013 Cruze with 35,000 Km on it this Thursday. The lease inspector said it was one of the cleanest and best kept cars he had seen, so no extra costs there. After I turn in the Cruze, I will be going to the Toyota dealership next door and lease a 2016 Corolla LE. Hopefully it is a better car than the Cruze. Which shouldn't be difficult because the Cruze is having more front end problems again. I would like to take a moment to thank the community here. You guys did more than GM and the Dealership ever did to help me through my problems. In spite of the fact that the heater issue remains today. Oh, and on another note...if you see a blue 2013 Cruze LT with 36,000 and a small stone chip on the lip of the hood at your local used car dealer - RUN. Again, thanks and take care. If anyone wants me to update on how the Corolla works out, let me know.

Take care,
Colt.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Best wishes Colt and do stop in and let us know how things go with your Corolla. As I understand it, it is a substantially older design than Cruze and should be wholly and completely sorted out.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

Tomko said:


> Best wishes Colt and do stop in and let us know how things go with your Corolla. As I understand it, it is a substantially older design than Cruze and should be wholly and completely sorted out.


Thanks Tomko. Going to lease again though. The Corolla was redesigned for 2014. Much larger and a much nicer interior and exterior than my 2007 Corolla. The bones are the same as they were since like 2001 though. The CVT will be interesting to experience. I will let you folks know. Take care!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Take care, Colt! Thanks for keeping us up to date with your car (many post problems and don't follow up), and the best of luck with your new ride.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> Maybe time for manufacturers to add auxiliary heat. I wonder what Volt, Prius and Leaf drivers are doing.


Diesel Cruze has it.


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

That is one of my biggest pet peeves, Blue!! How many times have you followed a thread for ten pages only to find out the thread just stops. You guys were great to me, so I would never do that. The solution is, that other than the ones you guys shared, there simply is no solution for some of the Cruzes. I got a lemon. GM did not do anything except deny, deny, deny. This in spite of the Service Manager sending them pictures of the issue and everything else. Very disappointed in GM and even if it was a fluke, I cannot ever give them another nickel of my money.


I will let you folks know how the Coroalla experience is. Thanks!!!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> I will let you folks know how the Corolla experience is. Thanks!!!


Have you/do you plan to check out the new Civic? IMO, a way better car than the Corolla in current form (and with an engine that doesn't have to be thrashed to do anything).


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> Have you/do you plan to check out the new Civic? IMO, a way better car than the Corolla in current form (and with an engine that doesn't have to be thrashed to do anything).


J, the original plan was a Civic. Then the wife went and looked at the all new Corolla and said it felt just like her beloved 2001 Camry. I do not disagree that the Civic is also a good choice, but unless you are willing to argue with my wife, I am gonna have to go Corolla.

The Civic has a much smoother and peppier engine. The Corolla is far more 'big car' like on the road. Much like the great ride the Cruze provides. The Civic seemed very jumpy because our roads here are just beyond shot. The Corolla seemed to suck up the bumps a lot better. I also liked the interior of the new Corolla better than the Civic. The only concern I had about the Civic is that an old friend of mine, who was a Honda Tech said that he saw a few that would draw down in the winter or if left parked for a couple days. They would install some type of battery-tender on those cars. With the wife working 14 hour days and having nowhere to plug in, as soon as she heard this, I lost any ground I had gained trying to convince her on the Civic. Not sure how true or how common that is, but a quick Google did show some folks complaining about it.

Personally, I still prefer the Civic.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

ChevyGuy said:


> Maybe time for manufacturers to add auxiliary heat. I wonder what Volt, Prius and Leaf drivers are doing.


I noticed on the RPO code list for the all new 2016 cruze it lists a electric heater option. There is no diesel engine RPO code listed so I think it would be safe to say this heater option will be available on the 1.4T models. All new 2016 cruze has standard heated steering wheel and front seats on the premiere, as well as optional heated rear seats. 

Should know soon, I see all my local dealers have the all new 2016 model as "In transit", as well as reading 
lordstown has just started shipping the new model.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> J, the original plan was a Civic. Then the wife went and looked at the all new Corolla and said it felt just like her beloved 2001 Camry. I do not disagree that the Civic is also a good choice, but unless you are willing to argue with my wife, I am gonna have to go Corolla.
> 
> The Civic has a much smoother and peppier engine. The Corolla is far more 'big car' like on the road. Much like the great ride the Cruze provides. The Civic seemed very jumpy because our roads here are just beyond shot. The Corolla seemed to suck up the bumps a lot better. I also liked the interior of the new Corolla better than the Civic. The only concern I had about the Civic is that an old friend of mine, who was a Honda Tech said that he saw a few that would draw down in the winter or if left parked for a couple days. They would install some type of battery-tender on those cars. With the wife working 14 hour days and having nowhere to plug in, as soon as she heard this, I lost any ground I had gained trying to convince her on the Civic. Not sure how true or how common that is, but a quick Google did show some folks complaining about it.
> 
> Personally, I still prefer the Civic.


Toyota does have isolation from the road nailed down. While it does feel a lot like a slightly lighter Camry out on the road, I wish the Corolla had an engine that was similar to their 2.5 - torquey, quiet, and unobtrusive. 

Nonetheless, should hopefully prove to be a reliable car. Friends have had theirs for years without issue (I wish I could say the same for our Camry).


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## Colt45 (Jan 4, 2014)

My 2001 Camry was the most bullet proof car I ever owned. 2.2 litre, although underpowered, needed only an EGR in 150K kms. Even the light bulbs, brake pads and wipers were original when the car was totalled. I sold my 07 Corolla to my in-laws. They have 180K kms on it now and have replaced the battery and thermostat. The A/C button is acting up now too. I still maintain that it is THE car, and not the particular make and model. If you get a good anything, it will be good. If you get a bad one, well, that is when you should expect some support from the Manu. That is where GM blew it with me. 

Have you seen the 2016 Corolla?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Colt45 said:


> My 2001 Camry was the most bullet proof car I ever owned. 2.2 litre, although underpowered, needed only an EGR in 150K kms. Even the light bulbs, brake pads and wipers were original when the car was totalled. I sold my 07 Corolla to my in-laws. They have 180K kms on it now and have replaced the battery and thermostat. The A/C button is acting up now too. I still maintain that it is THE car, and not the particular make and model. If you get a good anything, it will be good. If you get a bad one, well, that is when you should expect some support from the Manu. That is where GM blew it with me.
> 
> Have you seen the 2016 Corolla?


We both had Gen 5 Camrys in the past (2002 & 2003) with the V6. Fantastically reliable and peppy cars. That 2002 is still being driven by her dad and still has had only minor issues. The 2012 has been in and out of the shop every 5000 miles it seems like - even Toyota makes lemons, I guess.

Yeah, I've had a few of the 2014+ CVT Corollas as rentals. They're a serious step up over the last generation model (especially interior), but it's still a Corolla - noisy, slow, and will go from Point A to B forever without excitement or issue.

Get one before the 2017 redesign - man that's ugly.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> Get one before the 2017 redesign - man that's ugly.


I didn't realize a refresh was already in the works, since the current one is no beauty contest winner I have to google this..... OMG yep they managed to take ugly to a whole new level.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

This particular 2017 is so embarrassed by its looks it won't leave the house without covering up...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> This particular 2017 is so embarrassed by its looks it won't leave the house without covering up...
> 
> View attachment 186538


I saw one of the new Priuses (Prii?) on the road last night. Holy crap, talk about getting hit with an ugly stick.


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