# Break-in oil change?



## Gooch (Jul 2, 2014)

What is the recommended timeframe/mileage to have the factory oil changed? When we bought our '11 Fusion 
it stated in the owner's manual when it should be done, but can't find anything in the Cruze owners manual.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

I did it @ 4000 (1.5 months)on mine, some went sooner that that. 6k is the normal oil change interval on the dealership oil unless you bump up to synthetic. If OnStar or the dealer calls you, then you went past 0% on the oil life monitor. You should only get these phone calls if you are running a reliable synthetic. 


Sent from my iFail 5s


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

I think I did mine at the 3000 mile mark. As Merc6 said 6k is the normal oil change interval. The idea behind a "break in" oil was that there will be metal shavings with a new engine. That has changed over the years and not really a concern any more.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Break in oil was also high in nickel. I'm at 5000 miles on my car and its still reading 35%. When I get into the 20's I'm going to call to make an appointment


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

I'm at 6800 on my break in oil because I haven't had time. Shouldn't hurt anything. I'm switching to AMSOIL full synthetic though so the dealer won't be touching my car.


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## Rich+Cruze! (Apr 8, 2014)

I would suggest sooner than later for the first oil change. The comment about the metal in the oil is correct; it used to be an issue and is largely solved with the Cruze. However I feel the cost of an oil change is so minimal that changing a thousand or two miles early will help you sleep better at night. My first oil change was at 4000 and full synthetic was put in.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

The fundamental answer to your question is that there is no such thing as engine break in anymore. Machining and assembly tolerances and quality control have eliminated the old school break in periods for engines. The big deal used to be adhering to the 500 mile break in schedule to "seat the rings." The rings seat within 5 minutes of engine run time now. So, the fundamental answer to your question is one of two choices - either use the oil life monitor and change the oil at say 10% remaining life or change it at 7500 miles if you are in the "normal use" category of driving. Please ignore all the posters who suggest 3000 or 4000 mile oil change intervals. These recommendations are uninformed and bad for the environment.


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Rich+Cruze! said:


> I would suggest sooner than later for the first oil change. The comment about the metal in the oil is correct; it used to be an issue and is largely solved with the Cruze. However I feel the cost of an oil change is so minimal that changing a thousand or two miles early will help you sleep better at night. My first oil change was at 4000 and full synthetic was put in.


Good on the synthetic route but what's up with 26.2 miles/gallon???? Yikes!


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## q2bruiser (Jun 8, 2014)

The engines are run/broken in at the factory. No need to deviate from the OLM.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Erastimus said:


> The fundamental answer to your question is that there is no such thing as engine break in anymore. Machining and assembly tolerances and quality control have eliminated the old school break in periods for engines. The big deal used to be adhering to the 500 mile break in schedule to "seat the rings." The rings seat within 5 minutes of engine run time now. So, the fundamental answer to your question is one of two choices - either use the oil life monitor and change the oil at say 10% remaining life or change it at 7500 miles if you are in the "normal use" category of driving. Please ignore all the posters who suggest 3000 or 4000 mile oil change intervals. These recommendations are uninformed and bad for the environment.


The 3000 and 4000 people above was the initial change not every change. Once that factory fill oil was gone I went to 7K full synthetic oil changes. Now the dealership will leave a 3000 window sticker in the car but I usually go in when OnStar snitches on me to the dealership.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> Break in oil was also high in nickel. I'm at 5000 miles on my car and its still reading 35%. When I get into the 20's I'm going to call to make an appointment


Are you sure you don't mean Zinc? 



Erastimus said:


> The fundamental answer to your question is that there is no such thing as engine break in anymore. Machining and assembly tolerances and quality control have eliminated the old school break in periods for engines. The big deal used to be adhering to the 500 mile break in schedule to "seat the rings." The rings seat within 5 minutes of engine run time now. So, the fundamental answer to your question is one of two choices - either use the oil life monitor and change the oil at say 10% remaining life or change it at 7500 miles if you are in the "normal use" category of driving. Please ignore all the posters who suggest 3000 or 4000 mile oil change intervals. These recommendations are uninformed and bad for the environment.


I cannot count the number of times you have given bad advice on this forum. Just because the tolerances are closer than before, doesn't mean break-in doesn't occur. Any oil testing analysis will demonstrate just how incorrect you are. All wear metals will be higher. Furthermore, it has been widely observed that fuel economy continues to improve in these cars up till 10,000 miles. Look at fuelly.com for the Cruze and you will notice that pattern to some degree. Obviously, it will vary.

New machining tolerances simply allow us to drive our cars normally during the break in period, but they don't mean that a break-in does not occur. Again, oil analysis is pretty clear on this. 



q2bruiser said:


> The engines are run/broken in at the factory. No need to deviate from the OLM.


They are "dry" run for a short few minutes to ensure that nothing is broken while scanning for pressure in both fluid and intake/exhaust and engine vibrations. This is by no means a break-in. 

GM recalibrated the OLM for the 2013+ models and forced an oil change 2000-3000 miles sooner than in 2011-2012 models. That would indicate that owners of those model years should certainly deviate from the OLM under any conditions. Furthermore, our oil analysis has shown that the OE synthetic blend oil should not be used for more than 6000 miles as the TBN drops to concerning levels. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

I track my fuel ups on trip 1 so I can see my current mpg from anywhere on Remotelink app and my oil changes on trip 2(but trip 2 doesn't show up on the app.) The OLM reset shows up on the OnStar website with a X on the exact day and miles. When OnStar snitches and OLM reaches 0% , my trip 2 is usually between 7800 to about 8100 miles for my driving style of multi state turnpike driving and some inner city stop and go.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

I think its a personal choice. Theoreticaly, new cars dont need to be broken in anymore, but i still did an oil change at 5000 km and at 10k, then continued to do them every 10k, since im hard on my car. (About 3000 miles for the 1st)

But my father on his Cruze followed the oil warning indicator, so his 1st oil change was at 14k. (about 9000 miles)


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Poje said:


> I think its a personal choice. Theoreticaly, new cars dont need to be broken in anymore, but i still did an oil change at 5000 km and at 10k, then continued to do them every 10k, since im hard on my car. (About 3000 miles for the 1st)
> 
> But my father on his Cruze followed the oil warning indicator, so his 1st oil change was at 14k. (about 9000 miles)


They do need broken in. Let's make this a very basic analogy. You squirt a quarter size circle of baby oil into your palm. Now rub your hands together for 2 seconds. Did you cover all fingers, nooks and crannies of your hands? No? Now do it for 10 seconds.... much better coverage AND any loose debris would have been knocked loose (we don't have pressure to force it off your hands but you get the point). In addition, if you spread the oil out over your hands and immediately washed it off or let it sit in just the cup of the palm your entire hand wouldn't be moisturized. 

This is the purpose of break in oil... to seep deep into the crevices, seals and metal (there are a few other benefits but let's keep it simple). Lube up the engine nicely so she lasts a long time and to reveal any significant issues in the form of metal shavings. There are still metal shavings regardless of how well the factory cleans the engine prior to assembly. Microscopic ones, but until you cycle the engine through a few thousand miles you won't be able to remove the majority of these microscopic particles. In addition, this is why many people use the bypass oil filters to take care of the 1 micron size particles. To say that the engine "doesn't need break in" is inaccurate. It may not be to the same degree as older engines but anything mechanical always needs a break in period, even your lawnmower! 

**Did you know** Particle sizes as small as 5 microns will cause your engine to wear down significantly faster than if you filtered them down to 1 micron or smaller? Interesting observation given what an engine is made out of and the size of the particles...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> The fundamental answer to your question is that there is no such thing as engine break in anymore. Machining and assembly tolerances and quality control have eliminated the old school break in periods for engines. The big deal used to be adhering to the 500 mile break in schedule to "seat the rings." The rings seat within 5 minutes of engine run time now.


Look at the section of the owners manual about engine break-in, ya genius. 

Now, why is that advice there? Hmm, it couldn't be to make sure the rings are properly seated. 










Sent from Bill the WonderPhone


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> Look at the section of the owners manual about engine break-in, ya genius.
> 
> Now, why is that advice there? Hmm, it couldn't be to make sure the rings are properly seated.
> 
> ...


Yup, not nearly as elaborate as the old days but still needed to ensure longevity. Leave it to Jblackburn to pull out the ole manual 

I should just stick mine in my duty bag lol


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

So much speculation...

Machinery wear is a very well understood phenomena. ANY machine wears as it is used, and continues to do so throughout its life cycle. When excessive wear becomes an issue due to risk of failure or decreased performance, the machine can either be refurbished and maintained on some sort of maintenance schedule, or it can be discarded and replaced. With cars we tend to discard and replace since most engines outlive the rusty old beat up cars they're powering.

An engine has all sorts of surfaces that mate with other surfaces, and when it is new NONE of these surfaces are smooth. Lubricants do a good job keeping these surfaces from touching excessively as they move relative to each other, but they do touch. As they move and touch they wear on each other, generating wear particles in the lubricant that are carried away and trapped by the filter (certain tiny particles can make it through the filter, but that's another topic). This wear process continues throughout the life of the engine.

If everything goes to plan, the wear that takes place actually refines the surface finish of mating parts so that they are smoother and touch less while in motion. With time and wear, surfaces get smoother, wear particles get smaller and fewer, friction is reduced. This process is called break-in and happens with each and every new car engine. Yes, machining has gotten better and tolerances and clearances have improved, but engines still wear.

Wear over time (mileage) is highest when the engine is new and falls the more the car is driven. This is not a straight line decrease, it is a curve. Wear is highest when the engine is brand new and falls very rapidly with use. Wear will then tend to start leveling out with more and more use, but this is a long and gradual process. Eventually wear levels will stabilize, but with many cars this takes 10-20,000 miles or more. People who do regular oil analysis on an engine from new have shown this over and over, and it is generally accepted that wear metal levels in a new engine will drop through the first 3-4 oil changes before stabilizing.

It certainly can't hurt to change the factory fill oil after a brief break in period, and many people do. The specific mileage this should happen at is debatable for many reasons, but in the end it doesn't matter much. If you wanted to be really anal about it, you could research wear metal rates for various engines over time, plot some sort of curve, and then use that curve to set your Oil Change Intervals during the break in period, doing the first change very quickly off the lot and then going progressively further on each change after that... but I think that would be a little excessive and unnecessary. It would, however, be the only way to "justify" your actions. For normal people, changing the factory fill (and filter) at somewhere between 1,000 and 3,000 miles is likely the best option, and stick to your personal OCI after that, be it based on your OLM's recommendations or sooner.

The company is OK with you just following the Oil Life Monitor to schedule your oil changes if you choose to. There is no need to do a break in oil change to satisfy the warranty requirements, it's just a "feel good" thing to do and it makes sense for those who plan to keep their car a long time based on what we know about machinery wear.

Hope that helps.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I always change my initial oil around 3,000 miles. Then I change at every 5500 miles until I hit an even 5,000 miles. Please note I'm using the GM ACDelco dexos1 blend since I can get oil changed done cheaply using this oil and not have to go searching for the Penzoil Ultra I would prefer to use. As a result my optimistic (based on GM's algorithm change in 2013) OLM doesn't even come into play.

I also rotate and balance my tires with every oil change. Doing the two together makes it easier for me to remember to rotate and balance the tires. By the way, Blue Angel's comment about early engine wear also applies to tire tread life.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

Here is some more Xtreme bad advice. If you have your tires rotated every 5000 miles and it costs $30 each time and you thus get 60,000 miles out of the tires, the cost of those rotations is $360. If you rotate them every 10,000 miles and thus get 50,000 miles out of them, the cost of the rotations totals $150. The difference is $210. Over the life of the car, say 150,000 miles, you end up using up one additional set of tires by rotating at 10,000 miles That set of tires costs say $500. With the 10,000 mile rotations and 50,000 miles on each set, the cost of tires over the life of the car has been $1500. With the 5000 mile rotations and 60,000 miles per set, the cost of tires over the life of the car has been $1250. But in the meantime, the 10,000 mile rotation guy has save 3 X $210 = $630. From the Firestone web site topic page of tire rotation: "Yet rotation does serve a purpose. By moving tires to equalize wear, rather than simply allowing one section to wear while another remains pristine, will maximize the given life of a tire. Will it make your tire last longer? Yes, but only to the mileage it was rated for originally. A 60,000-mile (96,561-kilometer) tire run without rotation may last, say, 50,000 miles (80,467 kilometers). But with rotation there is good chance that same tire could reach 60,000 miles (96,561 kilometers), given the right conditions." So yes, I am a genius because I rotate every 10,000 and the only thing that changes my economic analysis is with posters who do this work themselves in their garage. Been there, done that. Too old now.

Also, very surprised that none of the geniuses who commented on engine wear mentioned that the majority of engine wear occurs at cold starts. I believe that remains true today. So......if you were to run your engine continuously and could change the oil on the fly (without shutting the car off) when an oil analysis said it was time, I do believe that the engine would run forever and never "wear out." Prove me wrong.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Are you sure you don't mean Zinc?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it was nickel but it could have been zinc. Is zinc what they put into higher mileage oil now?


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Erastimus said:


> Also, very surprised that none of the geniuses who commented on engine wear mentioned that the majority of engine wear occurs at cold starts. I believe that remains true today. So......if you were to run your engine continuously and could change the oil on the fly (without shutting the car off) when an oil analysis said it was time, I do believe that the engine would run forever and never "wear out." Prove me wrong.


Not an engineer but... although the metal may survive for a very long time wouldn't some of the bolts/nuts/seals start to have issues over time? So technically, if you say run forever, I'd have to say I doubt a gasket/seal could last even 100 years without needing replaced. Part of the engine no?  

Devil's advocate (I don't care either way lol)


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> Here is some more Xtreme bad advice. If you have your tires rotated every 5000 miles and it costs $30 each time and you thus get 60,000 miles out of the tires, the cost of those rotations is $360. If you rotate them every 10,000 miles and thus get 50,000 miles out of them, the cost of the rotations totals $150. The difference is $210. Over the life of the car, say 150,000 miles, you end up using up one additional set of tires by rotating at 10,000 miles That set of tires costs say $500. With the 10,000 mile rotations and 50,000 miles on each set, the cost of tires over the life of the car has been $1500. With the 5000 mile rotations and 60,000 miles per set, the cost of tires over the life of the car has been $1250. But in the meantime, the 10,000 mile rotation guy has save 3 X $210 = $630. From the Firestone web site topic page of tire rotation: "Yet rotation does serve a purpose. By moving tires to equalize wear, rather than simply allowing one section to wear while another remains pristine, will maximize the given life of a tire. Will it make your tire last longer? Yes, but only to the mileage it was rated for originally. A 60,000-mile (96,561-kilometer) tire run without rotation may last, say, 50,000 miles (80,467 kilometers). But with rotation there is good chance that same tire could reach 60,000 miles (96,561 kilometers), given the right conditions." So yes, I am a genius because I rotate every 10,000 and the only thing that changes my economic analysis is with posters who do this work themselves in their garage. Been there, done that. Too old now.
> 
> Also, very surprised that none of the geniuses who commented on engine wear mentioned that the majority of engine wear occurs at cold starts. I believe that remains true today. So......if you were to run your engine continuously and could change the oil on the fly (without shutting the car off) when an oil analysis said it was time, I do believe that the engine would run forever and never "wear out." Prove me wrong.


I don't know where you're buying your tires, but Discount Tire, among many other places, will rotate and balance your tires for the tread life of the tires for a small one time fee. This one time fee is only slightly more than the price of a single rotation. I even purchased this for the OE tires on both my Cruze the first time I went in to rotate them. As for tire rotation making the tire last only to the mileage rated, this may or may not be accurate. There are a lot of variables that go into tread wear longevity and it is possible to go past the mileage rating on a tire. I have done this on previous vehicles and a couple of members here have done so on the Cruze. Not rotating and balancing regularly will definitely lead to uneven tire wear which will reduce the tread mileage.

Good observation that the bulk of engine wear occurs during cold start. This doesn't change the recommendation to change the factory oil early. As for changing the oil "on the fly" you neglect to take into account the oil pressure. Opening the oil system while running the engine is similar to cutting into an blood artery - the oil will be forced out of the system at a high rate of speed. Current engine designs do not allow for this, but there is nothing to say that an engine couldn't be designed for this type of oil change. Even with this design the engine will eventually wear out. The question is the cost effectiveness of such an engine in a general consumer product. Our engines will already outlast the life expectancy of the rest of the parts in our cars.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Place across the street rotates my tires for free. It's a chain that's fairly common in my area of the country.



> Also, very surprised that none of the geniuses who commented on engine wear mentioned that the majority of engine wear occurs at cold starts. I believe that remains true today.


But that has nothing to do with what you initially said.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

The way I drive, not rotating would be a bad thing. Those front tires spin a lot in the winter as I deal with Ohio, PA, NJ, and NYC snow terrain. 


Sent from my iFail 5s


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## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

I am going to change my oil myself today at 5500 miles and 30% OLM. I didn't want to change it any earlier because the very qualified engineers who designed this engine said it doesn't need it any earlier. But I also just can't wait any longer because it just feels wrong to leave old oil in a new engine any longer. That's just my gut feeling, of course, and it will give me some peace of mind. That's worth 40 bucks. 

The dealer refused to change the oil until I got below 20%, but that is actually a good thing because it forced me to look into how easy it is to change the oil in these cars, and now I am going to do all of my own oil changes. Thank you to everyone on the forums who shared information that helped me see how easy it is to do this yourself. 

I am going to use AC Delco Dexos 1 oil and the AC Delco filter for the first oil change because that's what the qualified engineers specified for this car, and I want the engine to continue to wear as designed and break in properly. But I am going to go with a better, full synthetic oil with the next oil change. I am considering Pennzoil Ultra Pure Plus because of all the good stuff I read about it, and I can just pick it up at Walmart, and it isn't that expensive. 

The America's Tire out here said they will rotate and balance my tires for free. They say that if they make me happy now that I will buy my next set from them, which is very true. I do like companies that treat me well. This is very different from the Chevrolet dealer here that won't lift a finger to do anything extra and doesn't seem to care if I ever come back.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Hold off on the Pennzoil, factory fill is fine if you don't exceed 6k or drive like I do. 


Sent from my iFail 5s


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Isn't the factory fill the cause for the turbo oil lines blocking up?


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

dhpnet said:


> I am considering Pennzoil Ultra Pure Plus because of all the good stuff I read about it, and I can just pick it up at Walmart, and it isn't that expensive.



Before you buy you should read http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-powertrain/41385-tiered-oils-list-understanding-synthetics.html


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## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> Before you buy you should read http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-powertrain/41385-tiered-oils-list-understanding-synthetics.html



Good information. Thanks for pointing out that thread. I will read it carefully before I make a final decision.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Mobil 1 ESP seems to be the general consensus. If not amsoil is also good


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> Isn't the factory fill the cause for the turbo oil lines blocking up?


If left in there too long. If OnStar and the dealership is spamming you with phone calls and emails to set up an oil change you already setting yourself up for heartache later if you not a 3 year lease and release kind of guy.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Sorry I said factory fill. I meant the OEM syn blend oil the dealership uses


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> Sorry I said factory fill. I meant the OEM syn blend oil the dealership uses


Yes OEM blend too. OEM seems to be the bear minimum to make the car turn on, run and hopefully get you through the 3 year lease if you don't do a early buy it back sooner. I can't speak on the Diesel asin trans fluid but I know it's way diffident than the regular gassers.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I'll have to check when I go in for my first change if I can pay the extra and get full synthetic oil


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> I'll have to check when I go in for my first change if I can pay the extra and get full synthetic oil


For the gas you pay extra for Mobil 1, not sure about Diesels.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I'll let you guys know how it goes when I call. It'll probably be next week when I make the call. Its going to get expensive, my escape is going to the dealership to get its service work done aswell


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

obermd said:


> ...and not have to go searching for the Penzoil Ultra I would prefer to use...


That's good, because Pennzoil Ultra is no longer available. It was replaced with Pennzoil Platinum Ultra, which caused volatility to rise from 6.6% to 11.5%. 



Erastimus said:


> Here is some more Xtreme bad advice. If you have your tires rotated every 5000 miles and it costs $30 each time and you thus get 60,000 miles out of the tires, the cost of those rotations is $360. If you rotate them every 10,000 miles and thus get 50,000 miles out of them, the cost of the rotations totals $150. The difference is $210. Over the life of the car, say 150,000 miles, you end up using up one additional set of tires by rotating at 10,000 miles That set of tires costs say $500. With the 10,000 mile rotations and 50,000 miles on each set, the cost of tires over the life of the car has been $1500. With the 5000 mile rotations and 60,000 miles per set, the cost of tires over the life of the car has been $1250. But in the meantime, the 10,000 mile rotation guy has save 3 X $210 = $630. From the Firestone web site topic page of tire rotation: "Yet rotation does serve a purpose. By moving tires to equalize wear, rather than simply allowing one section to wear while another remains pristine, will maximize the given life of a tire. Will it make your tire last longer? Yes, but only to the mileage it was rated for originally. A 60,000-mile (96,561-kilometer) tire run without rotation may last, say, 50,000 miles (80,467 kilometers). But with rotation there is good chance that same tire could reach 60,000 miles (96,561 kilometers), given the right conditions." So yes, I am a genius because I rotate every 10,000 and the only thing that changes my economic analysis is with posters who do this work themselves in their garage. Been there, done that. Too old now.
> 
> Also, very surprised that none of the geniuses who commented on engine wear mentioned that the majority of engine wear occurs at cold starts. I believe that remains true today. So......if you were to run your engine continuously and could change the oil on the fly (without shutting the car off) when an oil analysis said it was time, I do believe that the engine would run forever and never "wear out." Prove me wrong.


On the flip side, not rotating your tires will cause a denied warranty should they wear unevenly or not last the guaranteed mileage. That in itself would be more expensive. Good thing I rotate my own tires, and both Firestone and Discount Tire have free tire rotations regardless of who you purchased the tires from...

It is true that the majority of engine wear occurs during cold starts. However, it is also true that a good lubricant will protect relatively well. I have an oil analysis from a friend who drives as a courier, and on a 11,200 mile interval, he reported metallic wear levels in the low single digit parts per million. This engine is designed fairly well as far as cold start protection goes.

Another point not yet made, but briefly alluded to by Blue Angel, was the particle sizes causing wear. Engine wear occurs from particles of or larger than 5 microns in diameter. The OEM full-flow filter is capable of filtering only 20 microns nominal. It is important to understand that "nominal" refers to an average, in that much larger particles can be passed through the filter, thus causing much greater wear. During break-in periods, those particles can accelerate engine wear beyond what you'd otherwise want them to be. Changing the oil filter will not help in any way. 



money_man said:


> Isn't the factory fill the cause for the turbo oil lines blocking up?


Every reported instance of that was caused by the owner going too long on the factory fill. That oil should not be used for more than 6,000 miles even under the lightest highway conditions. 



money_man said:


> Mobil 1 ESP seems to be the general consensus. If not amsoil is also good


Just for the benefit of readers, this was for the Diesel engine only. Mobil 1 ESP should not be confused with Mobil 1 EP.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

When you say the oil volatility rose do you mean it vaporizes much more easily or have I found the wrong definition?

Main Entry:*volatile oil

Function:*noun

Date: 1800

:* an oil that vaporizes readily ;especially*:**essential oil


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> When you say the oil volatility rose do you mean it vaporizes much more easily or have I found the wrong definition?
> 
> Main Entry:*volatile oil
> 
> ...


Yes. The new formulation tested at a far higher volatility, as noted above. Wikipedia has a good definition of NOACK volatility:

"The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service.[1] The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions."

The API certification requires that oils have a volatility of no higher than 15%. The DEXOS1 certification requires 13%.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Hmm, interesting. So basically the Pennzoil has become junk.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> Hmm, interesting. So basically the Pennzoil has become junk.


 Quite a few oils that was top notch years ago kinda cheapened their formula and rely on their history and fanboys to continue using it. I was heart broken when even Subaru converted to rebadged Fram oil filters.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

money_man said:


> Hmm, interesting. So basically the Pennzoil has become junk.


The 10W-30 still has great numbers (I'm running the original PU 10W-30 now and will probably change to the PUP 10W-30), but yeah, the 5W-30 maintained every other number but the NOACK volatitility, which is important.


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## q2bruiser (Jun 8, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> They are "dry" run for a short few minutes to ensure that nothing is broken while scanning for pressure in both fluid and intake/exhaust and engine vibrations. This is by no means a break-in.


They are run-in well enough that nothing special need be done for the first oil change. Preaching that a "special" one time sooner than normal oil change is required for "people in the know" is pure hogwash.

Use the OLM and rest easy and save your money. How anyone "feels" about the first oil change is not relevant.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

q2bruiser said:


> They are run-in well enough that nothing special need be done for the first oil change. Preaching that a "special" one time sooner than normal oil change is required for "people in the know" is pure hogwash.
> 
> Use the OLM and rest easy and save your money. How anyone "feels" about the first oil change is not relevant.


Please read Blue Angel's post on this subject in this thread. The engine run at the factory is very short duration, basically to ensure everything starts before putting in the fluids. This way it's relatively easy to replace the engine without the extra mess of oil and coolant. This engine run by no means finishes the component smoothing process Blue Angel described.

Yes, you can use the OLM on any model year Cruze and GM will warranty the powertrain for the first 100,000 miles or 5 years. However, for those of us who drive a long ways and/or keep our cars a lot longer spending a little more on early oil changes is well worth the expense.


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## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

I checked the data sheets and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum has a higher NOACK than Pennzoil Platinum. So, I guess the PP is better than the PUP. 

It also looks like ExxonMobil makes the ACDelco synthetic blend. 
ExxonMobil Remains Lubricants Supplier for General Motors' Dealer Network 



q2bruiser said:


> How anyone "feels" about the first oil change is not relevant.


How I feel about the first oil change is the only relevant factor. Some people feel the OLM is the only factor. For me the OLM only plays a part in how I feel.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

q2bruiser said:


> They are run-in well enough that nothing special need be done for the first oil change. Preaching that a "special" one time sooner than normal oil change is required for "people in the know" is pure hogwash.
> 
> Use the OLM and rest easy and save your money. How anyone "feels" about the first oil change is not relevant.


OK, let me clarify. I was given a private tour of the Flint engine assembly plant, where they walked me through every single part of the assembly, testing, and break-in procedure of the 1.4L engine.

They are not run-in or broken-in for any duration beyond what is absolutely required to verify that nothing is blatantly wrong with the engine from an assembly standpoint. The dry run is performed by attaching a motor to the crankshaft. I took pictures of this specific process. 

Your baseless statements in contradiction to my first-hand accounts of how this engine is assembled and tested is "pure hogwash."

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> The 10W-30 still has great numbers (I'm running the original PU 10W-30 now and will probably change to the PUP 10W-30), but yeah, the 5W-30 maintained every other number but the NOACK volatitility, which is important.


The reason why the volatility skyrockets is because the group 3 base stock (and gas to liquid - aka Pennzoil's Pure Plus base stock - is a 100% group 3) behaves very similarly to a conventional petroleum oil. The hydrocracking process may eliminate contaminants and abnormally large or small hydrocarbons, but the end product is still a petroleum product. An Ester base stock, by comparison, is formulated using alcohol and acid. 
The 10W-30 improves volatility by drastically reducing the need for VI additives and pour point depressants. The problem I have with it is that, while PU was a true synthetic, PPU is not. The differences go beyond simply the volatility. The biggest differences are viscosity stability under temperature extremes (turbo & piston cooling jets), thermo-oxidation, and shear stability. Unfortunately, not everyone tests those aspects of oils.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

dhpnet said:


> It also looks like ExxonMobil makes the ACDelco synthetic blend.
> ExxonMobil Remains Lubricants Supplier for General Motors' Dealer Network


I think this just means that ExxonMobil will continue to be the "second" oil at your local Chevy dealership.


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## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

Xtreme - "nominal" has nothing to do with "average." Nothing. 

Some tire companies have a statement in their warranties that the owner of the tires is responsible or tire rotations and some don't. The two that I reviewed that make this statement only say that the original purchase invoice must be presented for coverage under the warranty. None say that you have to present all of your rotation invoices. Not sure how you prove rotation if you did it yourself. I guess I would use a little notebook and enter each rotation mileage and date in different color pens and pencils so that it looks like you did not "make the notebook up" the day you went in for coverage. 

While I understand that you do have a vast knowledge of motor oils due to your business interest, I think other forum members need to keep in mind that we all have limits of expertise. A forum member can take advice from an degreed engineer with 40 years of experience and continuing education or from an old school mechanic who, for example, still thinks that turbo equipped cars need to be idled in the driveway/garage for xx seconds or minutes before engine shutdown.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Erastimus said:


> Xtreme - "nominal" has nothing to do with "average." Nothing.
> 
> Some tire companies have a statement in their warranties that the owner of the tires is responsible or tire rotations and some don't. The two that I reviewed that make this statement only say that the original purchase invoice must be presented for coverage under the warranty. None say that you have to present all of your rotation invoices. Not sure how you prove rotation if you did it yourself. I guess I would use a little notebook and enter each rotation mileage and date in different color pens and pencils so that it looks like you did not "make the notebook up" the day you went in for coverage.
> 
> While I understand that you do have a vast knowledge of motor oils due to your business interest, I think other forum members need to keep in mind that we all have limits of expertise. A forum member can take advice from an degreed engineer with 40 years of experience and continuing education or from an old school mechanic who, for example, still thinks that turbo equipped cars need to be idled in the driveway/garage for xx seconds or minutes before engine shutdown.


For the purposes of this discussion, the reference to average was simpler to explain than referring to percentages. Obviously, a google search between nominal and absolute would have yielded articles such as this, from oil filter manufacturers:

Absolute vs. Nominal Microns (µm) Ratings

I can assure you I know the difference perfectly well. 

With regard to expertise regardless of business interest, I think there is a great deal of irony in you telling me that we all have limits of expertise. I will not be taking advice from someone who has repeatedly contradicted himself and conveniently ignored the instances where he has been called out on it. Obermd did a fairly good job on a number of occasions. So in that regard, no, I will not be taking lubrication and break-in related advice from you. I have already received that advice from the company who designed this engine and the staff who manage its assembly, and as noted, the oil analysis validates what I have said without leaving room for interpretation. 

It would behoove you to consider that your old school expertise does not apply to "new school" technology, such as the thermo-siphoning of an antifreeze and oil-cooled turbo eliminating the need for idling to cool the turbo.

I d not come in here flaunting my years of expertise or credentials. I present what I know as fact and the evidence to back it up.


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## q2bruiser (Jun 8, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Your baseless statements in contradiction to my first-hand accounts of how this engine is assembled and tested is "pure hogwash."


Please read what I said before getting emotional. I did not challenge your or anyone else's personal accounts. And you sir have also stated by personal accounts the engine is in fact run in for a period of time at the factory. I said doing the first oil change a few thousand miles early will not make any difference in the longevity of the engine ... only the thickness of your pocket book.

And kind sir, I am an engineer by education and trade. My statements are not exactly baseless.

So, buy all the oil you want and change as early as you want. Just don't fool yourself as to its effects. Adhering to the OLM will yield a long lasting engine.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

For those arguing with XR and his 1 time early oil change, ask him how many miles he changes his oil and cartridge filter our at.


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Merc6 said:


> For those arguing with XR and his 1 time early oil change, ask him how many miles he changes his oil and cartridge filter our at.


To be fair he does have a secondary filtration system LMAO


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

q2bruiser said:


> Please read what I said before getting emotional. I did not challenge your or anyone else's personal accounts. And you sir have also stated by personal accounts the engine is in fact run in for a period of time at the factory. I said doing the first oil change a few thousand miles early will not make any difference in the longevity of the engine ... only the thickness of your pocket book.
> 
> And kind sir, I am an engineer by education and trade. My statements are not exactly baseless.
> 
> So, buy all the oil you want and change as early as you want. Just don't fool yourself as to its effects. Adhering to the OLM will yield a long lasting engine.


One thing we try our best to do here is prevent the spread of misinformation. If I can see the elevated wear levels in oil analysis, it's probably causing accelerated wear and you don't need it floating around in your oil. 

That being said, GM changed the oil life monitor in the Cruze in 2013+ models to force owners to change their oil 2000-3000 miles sooner than in 2011-2012 models. Their direct quote to me was a mere "specification change." Hmmm. Turns out, they found out as we did that the DEXOS1 synthetic blend oil is not suitable for a 10,000 mile oil change interval. In fact, it is barely suitable for a 6,000 mile interval, which is what many dealers recommend. It turns out that adhering to the OLM in this case will not yield a long lasting engine with the 2011-2012 Cruzes. That is, unless you are using a synthetic lubricant with a high enough TBN to neutralize acidity for 10,000 mles. 

You implied (unless my understanding is flawed) that the engine has sufficient wear and break-in before it leaves the factory. I told you I have directly witnessed otherwise. I took perhaps too much liberty in my wording of that, but it would appear you got the point. Our engines certainly go through a break-in process.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Erastimus said:


> Also, very surprised that none of the geniuses who commented on engine wear mentioned that the majority of engine wear occurs at cold starts. I believe that remains true today. So......if you were to run your engine continuously and could change the oil on the fly (without shutting the car off) when an oil analysis said it was time, I do believe that the engine would run forever and never "wear out." *Prove me wrong*.


OK 

In theory, a journal once spinning at a sufficient rate to maintain an oil film will not contact its surrounding bearing material as long as loads placed on it are not enough to compromise the oil film. If this situation existed and there were no corrosive, electrical or abrasive qualities to the lubricant or environment then, yes, a journal bearing could last a long time. Probably longer than any practical application would allow for its continuous operation.

That's theory.

In reality, a journal bearing in a car engine will have a limited lifespan even if you never did shut it down. The dynamic forces on a crank bearing under various loads mean that the oil film thickness also varies, and quite often it is much thinner than the size of particles floating around in the oil. These "wear size particles" are the ones small enough to slip through your oil filter but big enough to exceed the thickness of the oil film in the bearing under load. Automotive oil filters usually have an absolute rating of 20-40 microns, yet the oil film in a bearing under load can be down to a single micron or less. Since these wear particles are made up of metals from engine parts they are hard enough to cause abrasive wear to the soft bearing material as well as the harder steel or iron of the crank journal.

To understand fully how a journal bearing works you need to look at something called the "Stribeck Curve":









The Y axis represents Coefficient of Friction, the X axis represents a combination of applied load, fluid viscosity and relative velocity. For the sake of our discussion here, we'll assume a constant load as well as fluid viscosity.

Friction is highest at the left side of the curve where velocity is lowest. At low velocities the two surfaces, though lubricated, are dragging on each other with no meaningful fluid film to separate them. This is Boundary Lubrication.

As velocity increases (traveling right along the curve) we start to see friction drop; a fluid film begins to form and as pressure builds within the film the contact between the surfaces is reduced. This is Mixed Lubrication.

As velocity increases further and the pressure in the fluid film begins to balance out the force of the applied load we enter Elasto-Hydrodynamic Lubrication (EHL). In this regime, as soon as there is enough pressure in the fluid film to fully separate the surfaces the friction coefficient is at its lowest.

Further to the right, in the full Hydrodynamic Lubrication regime, friction coefficient rises slowly with added velocity due to higher shearing of the fluid. The film thickness increases, parts are fully separated, and there's a margin of safety for applied loads as well as mechanical damping and shock absorption.

The left side of the Stribeck Curve is why we see journal bearings wear during start-up and shut-down; low relative velocity and thin fluid films.

Another example relying on the Stribeck curve are pistons and rings. An oil film on the cylinder wall generally keeps the pistons and rings from wearing on the cylinder wall, but at the top and bottom of the stroke the piston's velocity falls rapidly and stops before reversing direction. When velocity = zero, Mr. Stribeck's curve can't keep things separated and wear occurs.

Many other parts operate permanently in the EHL zone of the curve like timing chains and the rollers in the valvetrain. These parts rely mostly on anti-wear additives in the oil to manage wear since there is no relative velocity between them and their mating parts to maintain an oil film. These additives bond with surfaces and create an extremely thin protective "film" that reduces surface contact. Many anti-wear additives are more effective at increased temperatures, which is another reason start-up wear is relatively high.

Valves are a good example of parts that wear with use. They are not lubricated, have very little cooling, and operate in the most hostile environment in the engine; the combustion chamber. Valve seats wear no matter what's going on with the oil, and whether or not the engine is run continuously or intermittently.

There are other examples, but these are the big ones. Would an engine last longer if it was operated continuously? My engine would probably last longer than yours if you left yours idling all the time when not driving it and I only used mine while driving.


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