# Thoughts on this alternative to deleting



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I was just reading the delete thread and thought I'd post an idea I have as a VERY inexpensive alternative to a delete tune. It consists of 2 things:

1. The ability to do a manual regen.

2. The ability to disable the "countdown to death".

All other things being equal, this might cost a couple hundred $, and still greatly increase the reliability of these cars.

I say this as someone who's put just about 200K miles on my stock CTD, and the 2 main "leave me stranded" type of emissions problems I had centered around the DPF regen and the countdown to death. 

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this approach.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

How do you achieve the manual consumer regen and in your words no countdown to death? if both of those issues get solved the emission issues are not that big of deal in my view. The countdown to death is something I would guess 90% of new CTD buyers don't know of or understand. It is the one of the biggest drawbacks to a diesel car in my view. I doubt many folks buying a CTD for first time understand what a regen is either.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> How do you achieve the manual consumer regen and in your words no countdown to death? if both of those issues get solved the emission issues are not that big of deal in my view. The countdown to death is something I would guess 90% of new CTD buyers don't know of or understand. It is the one of the biggest drawbacks to a diesel car in my view. I doubt many folks buying a CTD for first time understand what a regen is either.


Yep! Being a gasser, I don't have a clue.

Enlighten me Grasshopper!


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Well the countdown to death has to do with an emission system that is designed if a failure of some emission sensors goes bad, it can limit your speed and distance until such time you get it to a dealer for repair. Not a good situation, especially if away from home.

The regen is basically a filter that collects soot and when it reaches a threshold level injects fuel in there and burns soot off of the inside of filter. In some cases the filter gets too much soot and car gets shut off at wrong time, start back up and it doesn't burn off the soot and it will not allow car to start again because the filter is full.

Putting it in pretty simple terms.

Not aware of gas cruzes having these type of potential issues


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> Well the countdown to death has to do with an emission system that is designed if a failure of some emission sensors goes bad, it can limit your speed and distance until such time you get it to a dealer for repair. Not a good situation, especially if away from home.


So the countdown can happen multiple times, assuming you have fixed the problem after it occurred each time?



IndyDiesel said:


> The regen is basically a filter that collects soot and when it reaches a threshold level injects fuel in there and burns soot off of the inside of filter. In some cases the filter gets too much soot and car gets shut off at wrong time, start back up and it doesn't burn off the soot and it will not allow car to start again because the filter is full.
> 
> Putting it in pretty simple terms.


OK, Got it.




IndyDiesel said:


> Not aware of gas cruzes having these type of potential issues


They do not, but I read a lot of the posts and I try to be somewhat intelligent when I answer, if I answer a post even if it has nothing to do with my particular vehicle.

Thanks for the lesson.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Blasirl said:


> Yep! Being a gasser, I don't have a clue.
> 
> Enlighten me Grasshopper!


Some filters are single-use, intended for disposal and replacement once full of accumulated ash. Others are designed to burn off the accumulated particulate either passively through the use of a catalyst or by active means such as a fuel burner which heats the filter to soot combustion temperatures. This is accomplished by engine programming to run (when the filter is full) in a manner that elevates exhaust temperature, in conjunction with an extra fuel injector in the exhaust stream that injects fuel to react with a catalyst element to burn off accumulated soot in the DPF filter, or through other methods. This is known as "filter regeneration".


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

The main reasons most people do the delete are:

-The constant sensor/def tank issues

-mileage increase

-the extra power/to have fun tinkering with the car

Basically you are proposing a way to keep from having to go to the dealer for a manual regen, by doing it yourself. Unfortunately, if you have sensor or def tank issues, you're in the same boat with a cel and a repair needed. And you don't pick up the extra mileage and power from the delete.

I see how in some ways what you are saying could be useful, but it would be a very small window where it would be of any advantage. Most of us have had emissions issues, but it's not very common to have to have the dealer do a manual regen, unless it is caused by faulty emissions equipment, which would be ruled out by the delete anyway.

And deactivating the "countdown" would be basically ignoring that the emissions system isn't working correctly, now most people that so loudly oppose deleting use the reason of "being green", and having the system not working correctly is essentially the same as having a delete, but with none of the advantages.

Again I see where what you are thinking of may be of an advantage, but I don't believe it will be an alternative to a delete, as it just doesn't truly solve the issues with the emissions system. I will say, that if snipesy ever releases the ability to do manual regens with Apple products, I'll be all over it. Until I can afford to do the delete and never think about a regen again.

Sorry bout the long post


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> The main reasons most people do the delete are:
> 
> -The constant sensor/def tank issues
> 
> ...


These are some really good points. The angle I was going for was to remove the most likely things to leave you stranded due to emissions issues while still having a "clean diesel". I guess it's also implied that if the "countdown to death" is eliminated, then the owner of the car would still need to fix something. They just wouldn't get stranded if they were over 297 miles from home.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > The main reasons most people do the delete are:
> ...


Yeah not getting stranded would be nice lol. I guess even with the countdown gone, if there was a problem the check engine light would probably be on, so at least you would still know there is a problem.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Since Fleece has demonstrated they can tune out every emissions control on the 2.0, all without throwing a CEL, I imagine they've got the capacity to offer an "eco tune" or something that would allow you to be in control of the regen as well. Have you thought about asking a tuner to see if they could write a program like this?


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> The main reasons most people do the delete are:
> 
> -The constant sensor/def tank issues
> 
> ...


Get a cheap unlocked Android phone, they can be had for less than $100. With snipesy app and Torque, you are well under $150, and it does both service and manual Regen. Also can read and clear CEL. It also now reads Transmission Fluid Temp. There is no reason for me to ever install my ScanGuage 2 because the snipesy app does all that and more.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> I was just reading the delete thread and thought I'd post an idea I have as a VERY inexpensive alternative to a delete tune. It consists of 2 things:
> 
> 1. The ability to do a manual regen.
> 
> ...


That Biscan for GM plug in for Torque comes really close to what you propose. With buying and Android device, it's under $150. Assuming resetting CEL would reset countdown.. not sure haven't tried that. It does BOTH normal and service Regen on command. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MRO1791 said:


> That Biscan for GM plug in for Torque comes really close to what you propose. With buying and Android device, it's under $150. Assuming resetting CEL would reset countdown.. not sure haven't tried that. It does BOTH normal and service Regen on command.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I hear ya but not interested in an android device.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Clearing codes does not touch the countdown. I can reset it but I made the decesion not to include it. I wasn't even going to include EGR control but the ECM usually disables it when driving so I included it.

It's an app for helping you view the hidden GM paramters, and doing basic servicing. It's not a substitute for a delete.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> Since Fleece has demonstrated they can tune out every emissions control on the 2.0, all without throwing a CEL, I imagine they've got the capacity to offer an "eco tune" or something that would allow you to be in control of the regen as well. Have you thought about asking a tuner to see if they could write a program like this?


That's not a bad idea. To me, it would be the best of both worlds. 



MRO1791 said:


> Get a cheap unlocked Android phone, they can be had for less than $100. With snipesy app and Torque, you are well under $150, and it does both service and manual Regen. Also can read and clear CEL. It also now reads Transmission Fluid Temp. There is no reason for me to ever install my ScanGuage 2 because the snipesy app does all that and more.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk





MRO1791 said:


> That Biscan for GM plug in for Torque comes really close to what you propose. With buying and Android device, it's under $150. Assuming resetting CEL would reset countdown.. not sure haven't tried that. It does BOTH normal and service Regen on command.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk





Snipesy said:


> Clearing codes does not touch the countdown. I can reset it but I made the decesion not to include it. I wasn't even going to include EGR control but the ECM usually disables it when driving so I included it.
> 
> It's an app for helping you view the hidden GM paramters, and doing basic servicing. It's not a substitute for a delete.


It does sound like pretty much everything is already covered except the countdown to death. I'm going to have to look into some of these options.

Thanks for all the good feedback on this. I figure this was a different twist to the delete vs. Don't delete conversation, taking both reliability AND cleanliness into account.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I hear ya but not interested in an android device.


You wouldn't have to go to an Android device for your primary mobile device, or even activate it with a provider for that matter. You could get any cheap android tablet or phone, download the apps over WiFi, and use it like you would a scangauge, Edge monitor, etc. but at a quarter or half the cost, plus gain the ability to do manual re-gens.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

revjpeterson said:


> You wouldn't have to go to an Android device for your primary mobile device, or even activate it with a provider for that matter. You could get any cheap android tablet or phone, download the apps over WiFi, and use it like you would a scangauge, Edge monitor, etc. but at a quarter or half the cost, plus gain the ability to do manual re-gens.


After seeing my car in manual regen mode at Chevrolet dealer for recall, I hope my car never needs a manual regen again. Sitting there for an extended period of time in park at 3000 rpm isn't something I see any benefit too unless truly needed. Can't be good for the engine or the oil. I had pretty fresh oil in during regen. So I understand why Chevrolet doesn't currently offer a manual regen switch.

I have almost all Apple devices. Kinda either Apple today or Android. I guess I chose Apple.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> revjpeterson said:
> 
> 
> > You wouldn't have to go to an Android device for your primary mobile device, or even activate it with a provider for that matter. You could get any cheap android tablet or phone, download the apps over WiFi, and use it like you would a scangauge, Edge monitor, etc. but at a quarter or half the cost, plus gain the ability to do manual re-gens.
> ...


Doing a manual regen isn't just for fun, if you get yourself into a situation where you need a manual regen and the car goes into limp mode, you could do it at home for free instead of having the dealership do it for like 400 dollars.

Either way, the car is going to sit there at 3000rpm, but at home it's free, at the dealer it's 3-400 dollars.

Chevrolet should absolutely have provided some way for the customer to do a manual regen, but the problem is, most American car owners wouldn't care to even learn how to do it or what it does. Most people are pretty clueless as far as automobiles these days.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> Doing a manual regen isn't just for fun, if you get yourself into a situation where you need a manual regen and the car goes into limp mode, you could do it at home for free instead of having the dealership do it for like 400 dollars.
> 
> Either way, the car is going to sit there at 3000rpm, but at home it's free, at the dealer it's 3-400 dollars.
> 
> Chevrolet should absolutely have provided some way for the customer to do a manual regen, but the problem is, most American car owners wouldn't care to even learn how to do it or what it does. Most people are pretty clueless as far as automobiles these days.


I am fully aware of why a manual regen may be needed. I still stand by I can understand why for a small diesel car GM doesn't have a manual regen option. I just hope I don't need it, I have a scanguage and in theory shouldn't have the countdown to death. But one never knows. Plus nothing is for free, what is being discussed would require additional stuff, I don't have an android device or any desire to get one. If I need to have it done will take it to the dealer and get it done, not the end of the world.


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## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

Indydiesel, the 3000 rpms are exactly what they do for a park regen. When I do a park regen on my semi it will run a extended period of time at a very high rpm till it determines it's accomplished it full regen then the truck shuts down.
Been around for years, the auto industry just doesn't see he need for it which is a shame. I think it's robbery for a dealer to do it and there is no labor other than hooking a laptop to it.


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> After seeing my car in manual regen mode at Chevrolet dealer for recall, I hope my car never needs a manual regen again. Sitting there for an extended period of time in park at 3000 rpm isn't something I see any benefit too unless truly needed. Can't be good for the engine or the oil. I had pretty fresh oil in during regen. So I understand why Chevrolet doesn't currently offer a manual regen switch.
> 
> I have almost all Apple devices. Kinda either Apple today or Android. I guess I chose Apple.


Not even just a parked regen, but if the option to manually trigger the regen to start when driving would be a bonus too. If you're sitting at 19g of soot and want to finish the regen up before you get to your destination and possibly have to turn it off in the middle, that would be a plus.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

LiveTrash said:


> Not even just a parked regen, but if the option to manually trigger the regen to start when driving would be a bonus too. If you're sitting at 19g of soot and want to finish the regen up before you get to your destination and possibly have to turn it off in the middle, that would be a plus.


That's a decent idea, but they would need to build that into the DIC so we don't need a scanguage.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > Doing a manual regen isn't just for fun, if you get yourself into a situation where you need a manual regen and the car goes into limp mode, you could do it at home for free instead of having the dealership do it for like 400 dollars.
> ...


The point I was making is this. If you are unfortunate enough to need two or three manual regens done by the dealer, it can cost you over 1k. For regens. That's robbery.

Obviously you would have to buy the equipment to do it yourself, for around 150 dollars, one time. Less than half the cost of one manual regen.

But like I said my point is there should be a way to do manual regens on your own, without getting the dealer involved. We have plenty of new diesel equipment at work that will tell you when it needs to do a regen. You press a button, and it does it while you drive. If that still doesn't do it, it will tell you to do a parked regen. Press another button, and it does its thing by itself while parked. You should have the option to do this stuff through the dic of the car from the factory. No reason to need to pay 400 dollars for a regen.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> The point I was making is this. If you are unfortunate enough to need two or three manual regens done by the dealer, it can cost you over 1k. For regens. That's robbery.
> 
> Obviously you would have to buy the equipment to do it yourself, for around 150 dollars, one time. Less than half the cost of one manual regen.
> 
> But like I said my point is there should be a way to do manual regens on your own, without getting the dealer involved. We have plenty of new diesel equipment at work that will tell you when it needs to do a regen. You press a button, and it does it while you drive. If that still doesn't do it, it will tell you to do a parked regen. Press another button, and it does its thing by itself while parked. You should have the option to do this stuff through the dic of the car from the factory. No reason to need to pay 400 dollars for a regen.


If it's so important, then allow the consumer to do it under certain conditions and have it built into the car and not some stupid extra thing to buy. I don't think my dealer charges 400. I would prefer it built into the car but doesn't allow you to do it just for fun. I have 23k miles and I don't see why I would need a bunch of manual regens. If I need a bunch of manual regens, I would prefer to delete and just be done with it. No inspections in my state.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > The point I was making is this. If you are unfortunate enough to need two or three manual regens done by the dealer, it can cost you over 1k. For regens. That's robbery.
> ...


That's exactly what I'm saying is that I wish it was built into the car with no additional stuff needed. But yeah deleting is definitely the way to go lol. Get rid of all that crap.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying is that I wish it was built into the car with no additional stuff needed. But yeah deleting is definitely the way to go lol. Get rid of all that crap.


True, but the purpose of this thread was to discuss an alternative to deleting. 

I think my manual regens were $250ish at the dealer, and I needed 2 of them.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > That's exactly what I'm saying is that I wish it was built into the car with no additional stuff needed. But yeah deleting is definitely the way to go lol. Get rid of all that crap.
> ...


Yeah when I typed that I may have forgotten that this was a delete alternative thread lol. My bad


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> After seeing my car in manual regen mode at Chevrolet dealer for recall, I hope my car never needs a manual regen again. Sitting there for an extended period of time in park at 3000 rpm isn't something I see any benefit too unless truly needed. Can't be good for the engine or the oil. I had pretty fresh oil in during regen. So I understand why Chevrolet doesn't currently offer a manual regen switch.
> 
> I have almost all Apple devices. Kinda either Apple today or Android. I guess I chose Apple.


It isn't good for the car, which is why the option doesn't exist besides in the scan tool. The big trucks are different, they are more durable and have more cooling capacity, and the exhaust isn't shoved under the car. It can also be dangerous if performed by flammable materials or plastic bumpers of other cars......


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

im a delete after warranty and 1st emissions issue guy but, if i could do manual regen when needed, and display told me keep driving id be ok.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

CruzeDan said:


> It isn't good for the car, which is why the option doesn't exist besides in the scan tool. The big trucks are different, they are more durable and have more cooling capacity, and the exhaust isn't shoved under the car. It can also be dangerous if performed by flammable materials or plastic bumpers of other cars......


I suppose there would need to be some way of educating the consumer on this. The Ford trucks offer manual regen as an option you can buy. The main problem is that when your DPF is full, you are stuck, and if it gets too full, it's toast. So the manual regen should only be available under certain conditions, i.e. more than 32 grams but less than xx grams. i suppose if you drive too far with the "power reduced" message, that's on you. Mine clearly gave me the warning ahead of time.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

GM designed the system in the Cruze so it would be more approachable to the general public. The system was designed to work without the driver knowing, and only informing the driver if intervention was required. You have to remember the stigma that diesels have in this country, and adding lights and manual regens would have scared away normal, everyday customers. I have driven my car for 15k miles and 2 years, and while I know that is not a lot compared to some, I have never had an issue related to regens or the DPF, and it is not something I pay attention to at all, ever. I understand there are many issues many have had with the emissions systems, but when functioning as it should, I believe the system is well implemented, as I have experienced so far. And as an aside, you cannot compare the system in our cars with the trucks when it comes to on demand regens or manual regens, as the trucks mostly all have a separate injector to inject fuel into the exhaust system to rase the temperatures, our cars are using our little motor to do it all on its own by dumping fuel in during the exhaust cycle.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

CruzeDan said:


> GM designed the system in the Cruze so it would be more approachable to the general public. The system was designed to work without the driver knowing, and only informing the driver if intervention was required. You have to remember the stigma that diesels have in this country, and adding lights and manual regens would have scared away normal, everyday customers. I have driven my car for 15k miles and 2 years, and while I know that is not a lot compared to some, I have never had an issue related to regens or the DPF, and it is not something I pay attention to at all, ever. I understand there are many issues many have had with the emissions systems, but when functioning as it should, I believe the system is well implemented, as I have experienced so far. And as an aside, you cannot compare the system in our cars with the trucks when it comes to on demand regens or manual regens, as the trucks mostly all have a separate injector to inject fuel into the exhaust system to rase the temperatures, our cars are using our little motor to do it all on its own by dumping fuel in during the exhaust cycle.


I agree it's a well implemented system. i didn't have my first problem until 115K miles. But some others had a problem way earlier. Deletion aside, what would you suggest as a way to prevent drivers from being stranded by a full DPF? it does happen, mainly during the pre-regen I wrote about before.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

the mileage count down is the most stupid thing the EPA came up with. should be based on a time frame so people can at least get home.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

LiveTrash said:


> Not even just a parked regen, but if the option to manually trigger the regen to start when driving would be a bonus too. If you're sitting at 19g of soot and want to finish the regen up before you get to your destination and possibly have to turn it off in the middle, that would be a plus.


Snipesy app, Biscan for GM, available on Google play, with the Torque app, compatible Bluetooth adapter and you can do exactly what you propose, I've been doing Regen on command when close to the start point, it works flawlessly. I also did a service Regen prior to oil change, that also works well. The app now has all the parameters that I wanted from ScanGuage 2, I still have that ScanGuage but have not installed it, no need now. I can also monitor more than 4 parameters, as many as I can fit on device screen. It's a great app. I use it with BOTH CTDs I maintain.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> The point I was making is this. If you are unfortunate enough to need two or three manual regens done by the dealer, it can cost you over 1k. For regens. That's robbery.
> 
> Obviously you would have to buy the equipment to do it yourself, for around 150 dollars, one time. Less than half the cost of one manual regen.
> 
> But like I said my point is there should be a way to do manual regens on your own, without getting the dealer involved. We have plenty of new diesel equipment at work that will tell you when it needs to do a regen. You press a button, and it does it while you drive. If that still doesn't do it, it will tell you to do a parked regen. Press another button, and it does its thing by itself while parked. You should have the option to do this stuff through the dic of the car from the factory. No reason to need to pay 400 dollars for a regen.


Biscan for GM app will do this for CTD, even if you have to buy an Android device and OBD adapter, still cheaper than one dealership manual regen. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MRO1791 said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > The point I was making is this. If you are unfortunate enough to need two or three manual regens done by the dealer, it can cost you over 1k. For regens. That's robbery.
> ...


I know, that's what I said in my second paragraph.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I am fully aware of why a manual regen may be needed. I still stand by I can understand why for a small diesel car GM doesn't have a manual regen option. I just hope I don't need it, I have a scanguage and in theory shouldn't have the countdown to death. But one never knows. Plus nothing is for free, what is being discussed would require additional stuff, I don't have an android device or any desire to get one. If I need to have it done will take it to the dealer and get it done, not the end of the world.



has nothing to do with it being a small car, our duramaxs didnt have man regens either

they want to make $ off service calls.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> has nothing to do with it being a small car, our duramaxs didnt have man regens either
> 
> they want to make $ off service calls.


GM Hardly sold many gen 1 diesels in the cruze, less than 2% of all cruzes sold from what I read. I have driven almost 24k miles, it is not something needed on a normal regular basis. Maybe on future models it will be added. I personally don't care about it. If it happens it happens. I fully understand why many would like the option. One can do a delete and all those concerns are gone if you are concerned about it.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> One can do a delete and all those concerns are gone if you are concerned about it.


I realize that a delete does do away with these things, but I created this particular thread for those like me who don't want to have a car that can be disabled, but still prefer a clean emissions system. Plus, it seems as if the alternative may be cheaper in the long run, including cost of repairs (in most cases). 

I need to tally up how much my repairs related to the emissions system have been for 200K miles. I am pretty sure I am still way under $1000, cheaper than a delete. Even if I add in the things mentioned in this thread, I would still be ahead of the cost of a delete and still have a clean emissions car.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> I realize that a delete does do away with these things, but I created this particular thread for those like me who don't want to have a car that can be disabled, but still prefer a clean emissions system. Plus, it seems as if the alternative may be cheaper in the long run, including cost of repairs (in most cases).
> 
> I need to tally up how much my repairs related to the emissions system have been for 200K miles. I am pretty sure I am still way under $1000, cheaper than a delete. Even if I add in the things mentioned in this thread, I would still be ahead of the cost of a delete and still have a clean emissions car.


With the current environment we are in with the EPA, it is the Achilles heel of our gen 1 diesels is the countdown to death, I have so much going on that is more important than worrying about something that could happen. My guess is you may not have had the manual regens if you had a scanguage prior to the issues, I spent almost $150 to try avoid a manual regen but if it happens it happens, I wont be happy about it but life goes on. I personally am not interested in buying more stuff that might work and spend more money on something that could happen. Just my choice. As I see it we have three choices:

1) buy more stuff to try and proactively address the issue, as mentioned in the thread
2) Delete even tho that isn't the purpose of this thread it is still an option for some (not me while under warranty)
3) drive with scanguage and try and avoid the manual regen if possible

That's how I see it, I have for now chosen option 3


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> IndyDiesel said:
> 
> 
> > One can do a delete and all those concerns are gone if you are concerned about it.
> ...


Remember that for some people, time is money. Even if a repair was covered, doesn't necessarily mean it didn't cost anything.

For example, in my situation, my girlfriend drives the Cruze to work, I drive my Honda to work, and I only use my truck for hauling/towing. Every time the Cruze goes into the dealership, she drives my Honda, and I have to drive my truck to work, which costs 30 dollars a day in fuel. The dealer has had the car for a week at a time a few times. Each time it cost me 150 dollars. Even though you could say it was "free" because it was covered.

If I was trying to promote the emissions system, then I would never mention this because the repairs were covered. But in the big picture, it was far from free. So specifically adding up only out of pocket repairs isn't necessarily a good representation. For some people, like me, the downtime of the car literally removes money from your pocket, even if the repairs are covered.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> With the current environment we are in with the EPA, it is the Achilles heel of our gen 1 diesels is the countdown to death, I have so much going on that is more important than worrying about something that could happen. My guess is you may not have had the manual regens if you had a scanguage prior to the issues, I spent almost $150 to try avoid a manual regen but if it happens it happens, I wont be happy about it but life goes on. I personally am not interested in buying more stuff that might work and spend more money on something that could happen. Just my choice. As I see it we have three choices:
> 
> 1) buy more stuff to try and proactively address the issue, as mentioned in the thread
> 2) Delete even tho that isn't the purpose of this thread it is still an option for some (not me while under warranty)
> ...


So far, I am doing option 3 as well. I don't think there are any good solutions to address the countdown to death (aside from deleting) at this point.



justin13703 said:


> Remember that for some people, time is money. Even if a repair was covered, doesn't necessarily mean it didn't cost anything.
> 
> For example, in my situation, my girlfriend drives the Cruze to work, I drive my Honda to work, and I only use my truck for hauling/towing. Every time the Cruze goes into the dealership, she drives my Honda, and I have to drive my truck to work, which costs 30 dollars a day in fuel. The dealer has had the car for a week at a time a few times. Each time it cost me 150 dollars. Even though you could say it was "free" because it was covered.
> 
> If I was trying to promote the emissions system, then I would never mention this because the repairs were covered. But in the big picture, it was far from free. So specifically adding up only out of pocket repairs isn't necessarily a good representation. For some people, like me, the downtime of the car literally removes money from your pocket, even if the repairs are covered.


Yes this is a very good point. I could see people having to take days off work too, best case losing PTO and worst case losing a day's pay.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> I realize that a delete does do away with these things, but I created this particular thread for those like me who don't want to have a car that can be disabled, but still prefer a clean emissions system. Plus, it seems as if the alternative may be cheaper in the long run, including cost of repairs (in most cases).
> 
> I need to tally up how much my repairs related to the emissions system have been for 200K miles. I am pretty sure I am still way under $1000, cheaper than a delete. Even if I add in the things mentioned in this thread, I would still be ahead of the cost of a delete and still have a clean emissions car.


i expected the emission system to last 200k miles

that it has sorta for you isnt fantastic, it should have lasted this long and with less issues.

the issue is what itll cost from here on.

for 90+% buyers, wont matter, ppl dont hold on to cars that long.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> Remember that for some people, time is money. Even if a repair was covered, doesn't necessarily mean it didn't cost anything.
> 
> For example, in my situation, my girlfriend drives the Cruze to work, I drive my Honda to work, and I only use my truck for hauling/towing. Every time the Cruze goes into the dealership, she drives my Honda, and I have to drive my truck to work, which costs 30 dollars a day in fuel. The dealer has had the car for a week at a time a few times. Each time it cost me 150 dollars. Even though you could say it was "free" because it was covered.
> 
> If I was trying to promote the emissions system, then I would never mention this because the repairs were covered. But in the big picture, it was far from free. So specifically adding up only out of pocket repairs isn't necessarily a good representation. For some people, like me, the downtime of the car literally removes money from your pocket, even if the repairs are covered.


That's a real life representation. Thanks for sharing.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

If it's a warranty repair, shouldn't you get a free loaner? We always do - maybe it's just our dealer?


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

Wow, the regen should be a no brainier... coming from VW tdi's if the vehicle is running a regen and you stop the car to leave.. the regen still runs the car till its finished... no user input required, you get out and lock the doors and let it do its thing.. and it will really stink up a garage lol... you would think a regen tune from GM would be a given... or they just want the service calls :/


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> Wow, the regen should be a no brainier... coming from VW tdi's if the vehicle is running a regen and you stop the car to leave.. the regen still runs the car till its finished... no user input required, you get out and lock the doors and let it do its thing.. and it will really stink up a garage lol... you would think a regen tune from GM would be a given... or they just want the service calls :/


Are you sure about that? In the Cruze it will stink up the garage, but the regen doesn't actually finish until the next time you drive. There is no way for a regen to finish without the car running.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> Are you sure about that? In the Cruze it will stink up the garage, but the regen doesn't actually finish until the next time you drive. There is no way for a regen to finish without the car running.


And leaving a running car in a closed garage is...well...extremely stupid and dangerous.


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## izedaman (Jan 5, 2017)

you can hear the VW running the golf and the touareg do it. I just leave the door open till its done. I guess it could be a very loud exhaust fan if you shut it off while it was cooking, and it needed to cool the stuff off? Im gonna hafta look it up now lol


*
That's more like normal in town EGTs. Highway temps under normal load are between 550°F and 700°F. And I think I read somewhere that the DPF passively regenerates above 662°F, therefore reducing active regenerations which cause EGTs of between 850°F and 1300°F for periods of up to 15 minutes. Those temps are why when you come to an intersection or shut your car off you can hear the fans running at full tilt.

​
*
that makes sense then


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> Remember that for some people, time is money. Even if a repair was covered, doesn't necessarily mean it didn't cost anything.
> 
> For example, in my situation, my girlfriend drives the Cruze to work, I drive my Honda to work, and I only use my truck for hauling/towing. Every time the Cruze goes into the dealership, she drives my Honda, and I have to drive my truck to work, which costs 30 dollars a day in fuel. The dealer has had the car for a week at a time a few times. Each time it cost me 150 dollars. Even though you could say it was "free" because it was covered.
> 
> If I was trying to promote the emissions system, then I would never mention this because the repairs were covered. But in the big picture, it was far from free. So specifically adding up only out of pocket repairs isn't necessarily a good representation. For some people, like me, the downtime of the car literally removes money from your pocket, even if the repairs are covered.


Amen, I'd rather pay money than time. Car repairs aren't as big of a deal as trucking back and forth to the dealership and somehow trying to get the family to their jobs/school.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

izedaman said:


> you can hear the VW running the golf and the touareg do it. I just leave the door open till its done. I guess it could be a very loud exhaust fan if you shut it off while it was cooking, and it needed to cool the stuff off? Im gonna hafta look it up now lol
> 
> 
> *
> ...


Yes, the fans are definitely on full blast if you interrupt a regen.


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