# Adding a sub



## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

Hey guys, I have a 2014 LT with a 1.4, I'm looking to add a bit of bass to the stock system. I'm not looking to get a big woofer, just something to compliment the stock system. Any suggestions? Looking to go cheap and easy to install as Well, I'm not all that great with wiring 
Thanks, Ryan


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

As a fellow Wings fan I'm obligated to help  What I need from you is a budget. You tell me what you're willing to spend and I'll show you a few different configuration options. Wiring is really simple. I'll be adding a write up once I get my box from XtremeRevolution. His boxes are the best because it takes up the least amount of trunk space as of right now but it will set you back a little over $200. So again, I need a budget and I'll start throwing you some ideas.


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## RollinOn18s (Mar 28, 2013)

Yeah wings. Great band. They had a big frontman who was he again?


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

RollinOn18s said:


> Yeah wings. Great band. They had a big frontman who was he again?


Not sure if retarded or the forum funny man


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Lol!

Yeah a budget will be needed before any valid advice can be given. 

See, is recommend an Aurasound NS18, but I have a hunch you're not going to want to spend $800 on a subwoofer...

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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> As a fellow Wings fan I'm obligated to help  What I need from you is a budget. You tell me what you're willing to spend and I'll show you a few different configuration options. Wiring is really simple. I'll be adding a write up once I get my box from XtremeRevolution. His boxes are the best because it takes up the least amount of trunk space as of right now but it will set you back a little over $200. So again, I need a budget and I'll start throwing you some ideas.


Deficit looking to spend at most $500, I'm not looking to blow the doors off, just something to add to the little bass I have stock with the normal speaker package. Would I be better off not getting one and instead upgrading the door speakers? I know I did that in my truck and it made a huge difference but I don't know if my car works the same way. Thanks for the quick reply! Go Wings!


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## nm13cruze (Apr 21, 2014)

there is always this route and it is plug and play to the current system Soundgate™ SubStage™ SCRU11 by Kicker Custom-fit powered subwoofer for 2011-up Chevrolet Cruze at Crutchfield.com


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

That's awesome!! I loved my pioneer sub in my cobalt


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

I would stay away from powered anything. Give me a little bit as my a** just woke up. I know we can do a lot and come in at budget. Speakers and subs but I'll need time to get you links plus I have a meeting this morning.


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

See


iTz SADISTIK said:


> I would stay away from powered anything. Give me a little bit as my a** just woke up. I know we can do a lot and come in at budget. Speakers and subs but I'll need time to get you links plus I have a meeting this morning.
> 
> No problem man, I had work all day and going to school soon anyway so no rush! I won't be able to get them for a week or so though
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Pick any two:

Cheap
Easy to install
Great sound quality/output

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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Pick any two:
> 
> Cheap
> Easy to install
> ...


I guess I'd have to go with cheap and easy to install because I am a total newb when it comes to installing systems. I might be able to get one of my old teachers to help me out, he used to do it for a living.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

wingsfan24 said:


> I guess I'd have to go with cheap and easy to install because I am a total newb when it comes to installing systems. I might be able to get one of my old teachers to help me out, he used to do it for a living.


It would be in your best interest to learn how to run a wire through a firewall and into the trunk. It is not rocket science, no offense. The effort you put in will allow you to keep costs low and achieve a much better result. We are all here to guide you step by step as well so you know exactly what to do.

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## Ger8mm (Mar 13, 2014)

> It would be in your best interest to learn how to run a wire through a firewall and into the trunk. It is not rocket science, no offense. The effort you put in will allow you to keep costs low and achieve a much better result. We are all here to guide you step by step as well so you know exactly what to do.


I'd take his advice, he is 100% correct. Gotta increase your learning curve there man.


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It would be in your best interest to learn how to run a wire through a firewall and into the trunk. It is not rocket science, no offense. The effort you put in will allow you to keep costs low and achieve a much better result. We are all here to guide you step by step as well so you know exactly what to do.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


You mean like with a coat hangar? I can do that, and pulling out the rear seats and trim pieces shouldn't be too bad eh?


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

No offense taken, if it's what I'm thinking it shouldn't be too bad, I'm just worried about messing something up on my new car  I've done a bit of electrical wiring for lights and I'm assuming sound cables are similar if not the same


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

wingsfan24 said:


> No offense taken, if it's what I'm thinking it shouldn't be too bad, I'm just worried about messing something up on my new car  I've done a bit of electrical wiring for lights and I'm assuming sound cables are similar if not the same


It will be a piece of cake. Just get it done right the first time and you will be very happy with the results.

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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It will be a piece of cake. Just get it done right the first time and you will be very happy with the results.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Am I going to want to get a PAC? It seems like that would make the install a bit easier only because I'm not sure if I feel comfortable splicing into the speaker wires without someone to guide me through it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

wingsfan24 said:


> Am I going to want to get a PAC? It seems like that would make the install a bit easier only because I'm not sure if I feel comfortable splicing into the speaker wires without someone to guide me through it.


Yep. The aa-gm44. $36 or so on amazon.

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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Yep. The aa-gm44. $36 or so on amazon.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Thanks so much for your help man, you definitely helped out this newb a whole heck of a lot


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## mjspiess (Nov 11, 2013)

I bought the SoundGate SubStage SCR11 Kicker 200w sub on eBay. Retails for $700. I found one with a best offer. I offered $350 & the seller counter offered at $432. I accepted. It sounds great, 98% plug & play, easy to install & doesn't take up your trunk space. People seem to rag on it, but I think its totally worth $432.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

mjspiess said:


> I bought the SoundGate SubStage SCR11 Kicker 200w sub on eBay. Retails for $700. I found one with a best offer. I offered $350 & the seller counter offered at $432. I accepted. It sounds great, 98% plug & play, easy to install & doesn't take up your trunk space. People seem to rag on it, but I think its totally worth $432.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


That's because you:
1. Got it used
2. Have never heard what I can do with $500

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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Ha, in the town where I was born, lived a kind old man named Nick, who sailed to sea. He told us of his life in the land of submarines. So we sailed up to the sun until we found the sea of green. We lived beneath the waves in our yellow submarine!


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Jon that is not 500 bucks worth . More like oo.50 cents worth .


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## mjspiess (Nov 11, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> That's because you:
> 1. Got it used
> 2. Have never heard what I can do with $500
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


1. Hmm, that's strange because it was brand new: Kicker SCRU11 Chevy Cruze 2011 Up Custom Fit Powered 10" Sub Box 400W Enclosure | eBay 2. I've read plenty through your audio threads. To mimic the Kicker setup that I got at $432, your fiberglass box alone would set me back $255. That leaves $177 for a sub, amp & wires/wiring harness. I'd like to see it broken down for $432 starting with your fiberglass box.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

mjspiess said:


> 1. Hmm, that's strange because it was brand new: Kicker SCRU11 Chevy Cruze 2011 Up Custom Fit Powered 10" Sub Box 400W Enclosure | eBay 2. I've read plenty through your audio threads. To mimic the Kicker setup that I got at $432, your fiberglass box alone would set me back $255. That leaves $177 for a sub, amp & wires/wiring harness. I'd like to see it broken down for $432 starting with your fiberglass box.


As for what I can mimic with a fiberglass box, you have to remember one very important fact. I won't be mimicking the Kicker, nor would I ever even bother to. Kicker would have to sell their kit for close to $1500 to compete with the sound quality of the systems I build. You get what you pay for, and in this case, you cannot walk in and say "I paid $432 for this so you should do the same," because people simply won't be able to. 

The flaw in your reply is that you assume my fiberglass boxes will sound remotely close to that shallow mount enclosure. Even if we went with the same quality components, I could find you a $30 wiring kit, an $80 subwoofer, and a $70 amplifier that would still sound better.


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

XtremeRevolution is correct. Kicker is only expensive because it's sold by big retail yet the components are, IMHO, garbage. A $35 pioneer subwoofer will sound better.... Definitely go with the PAC. I plan on installing my PAC near the radio and running RCA cables to the rear like any other install. If you are doing a single sub and amp you'll need 4 gauge wire. For the RCAs and 4 Gauge power/ground wire I would go with Knukonceptz brand off Ebay or Amazon. They sell it by the foot. I'll have to measure how much you'll need but 22' power is probably over estimating. You can go with their cheaper version that runs about $1.80 a foot if memory serves correctly. Ground wire you'll need about 4 ft or so. Here is a quick cost estimation run down for you. XtremeRevolution feel free to chime in with a different amp and sub but I'm going to recommend a basic setup that's 1) cost effective 2) simple, as he's not going for overkill here.

Amplifier($140): Amazon.com : Alpine MRV-M500 Mono subwoofer amplifier - 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms : Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers : Car Electronics 
Subwoofer($56): Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate R2D2-10 Prime R2 DVC 2 Ohm 10-Inch 250 Watts RMS 500 Watts Peak Subwoofer: Car Electronics
Box by Xtreme ($225?) XtremeRevolution
PAC 2 Channel Adapter ($11) http://www.amazon.com/PAC-SNI35-Adj...=1398451876&sr=8-1&keywords=PAC+2+channel+loc
Power Wire ($27) Amazon.com: KnuKonceptz KCA Kable 4 Gauge Power Wire Blue: Automotive
Ground Wire ($9) Amazon.com: KnuKonceptz KCA Kable 4 Gauge Power Wire Black: Automotive
RCA ($25) Amazon.com: Krystal Kable 2 Channel 6M Twisted Pair RCA Cable 20': Electronics
Fuse Block ($25) Amazon.com : DB Link NANLFB02 0 AWG In/ (2) 4 AWG Out-2 Position ANL Power Distribution Fuse Block with Clear Heat Resistant Plastic Housing : Vehicle Amplifier Power Distribution Kits : Car Electronics
Fuse ($10?) http://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-A...8&qid=1398452141&sr=8-4&keywords=100+anl+fuse
Misc Parts ($20?) Anything misc can be had for a few bucks off ebay or local hardward store IE electrical tape etc.

Grand total for that build $523 and I'm probably overestimating!

XtremeRevolution does 2 different boxes, the one I quoted I think is the Fiberglass box but you could always do the MDF which is way cheaper. All parts can be swapped out for different components but if I wanted something simple and to the point this is really close to something I would buy and pretty **** close to what I've always used. My components are a few steps up in power and complexity but the baseline is represented by these components. Let me know what you think and Xtreme please weigh in with other suggested parts. Hope this helped a bit. Again, we can go more in depth as you start to buy parts for your build.

I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH!!! DO NOT RUSH TO BUY!!! AND.... DO NOT RUSH TO INSTALL!!! YOU MUST TAKE YOUR TIME OR YOU'LL HAVE REGRETS!


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

BTW, upgrading your door speakers won't give you the base you're looking for as they can't reproduce base below certain frequency ranges. If you've happy with the sound in the speakers as is leave them alone. If not for another $200 or so you can replace them too. Again, I can show you how. Your call.


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## mjspiess (Nov 11, 2013)

What I was requesting is that you offer a *setup* similar to Kicker's *design/setup*, not necessarily sound. Small, compact box tucked away that does not inhibit trunk space, just like the Kicker box. So start with your fiberglass box & go from there. My only point is, at $432, the Kicker *setup* is tough to beat...not necessarily the sound, but the simple *setup and installation*. I, nor the OP, is trying to win any sound competitions. And in my opinion, along with all the others on this forum who opted to buy the Kicker setup, no one has been left disappointed. To call it garbage without actually listening to it is a bit prejudice. OP, humor me and offer the guy on eBay $350. See what he counter offers. You get EVERYTHING you need to add the sub in one box, including step-by-step instructions with pictures.


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## mjspiess (Nov 11, 2013)

And if you're ever in Lansing, MI let me know & you can listen to my Kicker sub to see if it's what you're looking for before purchasing. Just letting you know it's not garbage and there are many, many options out there just like the above example, which I'm sure would sound great.


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

mjspiess said:


> What I was requesting is that you offer a *setup* similar to Kicker's *design/setup*, not necessarily sound. Small, compact box tucked away that does not inhibit trunk space, just like the Kicker box. So start with your fiberglass box & go from there. My only point is, at $432, the Kicker *setup* is tough to beat...not necessarily the sound, but the simple *setup and installation*. I, nor the OP, is trying to win any sound competitions. And in my opinion, along with all the others on this forum who opted to buy the Kicker setup, no one has been left disappointed. To call it garbage without actually listening to it is a bit prejudice. OP, humor me and offer the guy on eBay $350. See what he counter offers. You get EVERYTHING you need to add the sub in one box, including step-by-step instructions with pictures.


Car Audio is one area in car automotive I know a lot about. Much like a mechanic knows an engine. Xtreme is the same way. My problem with kicker is that it's like a Buick Verano, Verano's look good and sound fancy but the engine is weak, very weak. My setup will NEVER win you an SPL or DB contest, ever! But the components will last far longer, can be adjusted to taste on a wider spectrum and will run cooler than the kicker system. You can debate me all day, and I do respect your opinion, but why spend $350 vs $500? Wait the extra couple of months to save the additional $150 if money is the issue but as I said in my last big post... DON'T RUSH TO BUY!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> XtremeRevolution is correct. Kicker is only expensive because it's sold by big retail yet the components are, IMHO, garbage. A $35 pioneer subwoofer will sound better.... Definitely go with the PAC. I plan on installing my PAC near the radio and running RCA cables to the rear like any other install. If you are doing a single sub and amp you'll need 4 gauge wire. For the RCAs and 4 Gauge power/ground wire I would go with Knukonceptz brand off Ebay or Amazon. They sell it by the foot. I'll have to measure how much you'll need but 22' power is probably over estimating. You can go with their cheaper version that runs about $1.80 a foot if memory serves correctly. Ground wire you'll need about 4 ft or so. Here is a quick cost estimation run down for you. XtremeRevolution feel free to chime in with a different amp and sub but I'm going to recommend a basic setup that's 1) cost effective 2) simple, as he's not going for overkill here.
> 
> Amplifier($140): Amazon.com : Alpine MRV-M500 Mono subwoofer amplifier - 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms : Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers : Car Electronics
> Subwoofer($56): Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate R2D2-10 Prime R2 DVC 2 Ohm 10-Inch 250 Watts RMS 500 Watts Peak Subwoofer: Car Electronics
> ...


That will pretty much blow away the kicker system. Fiberglass over plastic, a proper subwoofer instead of a weak shallow mount, some REAL power instead of some most likely overrated circuitry Kicker installed. 

I strongly doubt they will put a whole 200W RMS through that little sub before it bottoms out. Amplifier power here will be lower than the sub capacity.

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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Without quoting my previous post, Xtreme is not trying to say "blow away" as in extremely loud bass as I can assure you that setup will not do that. But from the trunk position it WILL provide the background lows you're looking for... Awaiting OPs weigh in here 

On a side note, that sub was specifically chosen to be wired into a 4 ohm load which that amp will support at 300 watts RMS. Unlike the kicker system, as Xtreme mentioned, the Alpine amp and Rockford sup will use the full 300 watts at any volume whereas the Kicker will indeed bottom out just like your door speakers.


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## Livingfortheice (Apr 22, 2014)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> XtremeRevolution is correct. Kicker is only expensive because it's sold by big retail yet the components are, IMHO, garbage. A $35 pioneer subwoofer will sound better.... Definitely go with the PAC. I plan on installing my PAC near the radio and running RCA cables to the rear like any other install. If you are doing a single sub and amp you'll need 4 gauge wire. For the RCAs and 4 Gauge power/ground wire I would go with Knukonceptz brand off Ebay or Amazon. They sell it by the foot. I'll have to measure how much you'll need but 22' power is probably over estimating. You can go with their cheaper version that runs about $1.80 a foot if memory serves correctly. Ground wire you'll need about 4 ft or so. Here is a quick cost estimation run down for you. XtremeRevolution feel free to chime in with a different amp and sub but I'm going to recommend a basic setup that's 1) cost effective 2) simple, as he's not going for overkill here.
> 
> Amplifier($140): Amazon.com : Alpine MRV-M500 Mono subwoofer amplifier - 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms : Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers : Car Electronics
> Subwoofer($56): Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate R2D2-10 Prime R2 DVC 2 Ohm 10-Inch 250 Watts RMS 500 Watts Peak Subwoofer: Car Electronics
> ...


Okay, 
So all the stuff i highlighted comes to a total of $96 not including your misc parts... 
Your last line about not rushing to buy, i hope you heed to your own words of advice... 
Also research is key here.
Lets start:
Wiring: You don't need 4 gauge wire for your setup. Your system is gonna draw 36.23 amperes. Check your chart. Your probably gonna run 17-20ft of cable








You clearly will not hurt your system by running thicker wiring, but you will not be benefiting really from it unless you upgrade the whole system, which would mean a system over haul.
Next: Fuses
Your gonna put a 100A fuse on a system thats pushing 40 amperes if you are hitting the peak note probably? You could go down to a 40-60A fuse and have no problem. The further the fuse's number is from the amperes your gonna be pulling, the more likely for the fuse to melt and pop on you randomly.

So now we come to the subs and amps themselves. Not a bad setup. That alpine amp is a true beast. Had an MRP-M500 on my baby setup of 2x12 MTX Terminators 400w RMS @2ohms. Boy did this baby fly. But i just feel like your losing so much by taking a single over double here. 2 woofers will kick the **** out of one any day of the weak. I will explain more below. First, lets save you some money.

So now that is set, lets move on: $$$$
We all love saving money. Here are just a handful of options i found that could suit your needs:
EFX 8-gauge Amplifier Wiring Kit Power and signal connections for your new amp at Crutchfield.com $50
T-Spec 8PK Installation Kit 8-gauge amplifier wiring kit — includes speaker wire at Crutchfield.com $60
Rockford Fosgate RFK8 8-gauge amplifier power wiring kit at Crutchfield.com $65
Lightning Audio LA-4i 4-gauge amplifier wiring kit — includes 2-channel patch cable at Crutchfield.com $70
T-Spec 8RAK Installation Kit 8-gauge amplifier wiring kit — includes 2-channel patch cable and speaker wire at Crutchfield.com $ 70
T-Spec V10-RAK8 8-gauge amplifier wiring kit — includes 2-channel patch cable at Crutchfield.com $ 70
Rockford Fosgate RFK8i 8-gauge amplifier power and signal wiring kit at Crutchfield.com $75
Kicker PK8 8-gauge amplifier power wiring kit at Crutchfield.com $80
EFX 4-gauge Amplifier Wiring Kit Power and signal connections for your new amp at Crutchfield.com $80

Now back to your woofers. So you have just saved $50. Take 10 and go grab a 6 pack cause this install will take a while and beer is a mans best friend. But i digress...
Woofers: 10 v 12's
10's are gonna hit harder (not louder), meaning you'll feel it more. Also, they will have quicker response time than 12's. These are designed for rock and roll, or fast pace bass that you really wanna feel.
12's are gonna be your louders. They will make you heard from a distance. You'll still feel em don't worry. Designed for everything downpace in terms of bass. Country, Hip hop, rap. You name it
Boxes:
Sealed is gonna be harder. Quicker response
Ported moves more air, will be louder
Bandpass is a joke of a concept and i'm yet to see a single box that is made correctly that doesnt make every frequency sound like its playing thru muddy water. If you get one of these, at least get the Dual one that has the pretty lights so you have something to show your friends. Im sure they wont enjoy listening to it unless they are deaf. Then it'll be fine i assume.

Options?
Really tell Xtreme what you're looking for in your box design specifically with the things i told you above. I know i haven't posted much on here, but i have scoured these forums, and his work and reputation seem very high and i would love to learn more from him.
As for your woofers. Your gonna have a sexy amp. 500 RMS @ 2 ohms is sexy. Grab 2 10's or 2 12's. here are some options:
Alpine SWA-10S4 BassLine Series 10" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com $65 each.
Rockford Fosgate R2D2-10 Prime R2 Series 10" subwoofer with dual 2-ohm voice coils at Crutchfield.com $70

There are a lot more than that online man. Those are just two. I have to run but keep looking around and do some more research. You're on the right track, just really explore all options so you don't install it, not happy with it, cant return everything... Get it right, get it tight, have a good night 

Ben


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

All of you guys kick some major butt. I can't express my gratitude! This means a whole heck of a lot! I'm going to get on my computer this weekend and check out everything as I've been on my phone and haven't been able to take everything in. I definitely plan on getting a box from Xtreme though, great price compared to what I've looked at and much better quality! Like Sadistik said, I'm going to take my time going through my options and make a finally decision in the coming week or two. Thank you again for all of your help!


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Living, while your points are somewhat valid here's what you missed. First those are not the exact components I would install IE the 100 amp fuse, it's a placeholder, second, why the **** would you install less than 4 gauge? To save yourself $3? I call bullsh*t. 8 gauge is a waste of your money because IF you do want to upgrade in the future you'll have a fun time rerunning wire because you went "cheap" and with the "basic" size for your install. Not to mention Alpine amps are underrated. 

I was simply proving I can meet the $500 threshold and btw I did that in 10 mins while working today (like I even had time in the first place)

On the note of 10 vs 12 or ported vs sealed blah blah blah, it all depends what route OP wants to go. Why would you even decide on a box before you know what kind of sub he's looking to install???? He did say he wanted a simple system thus a 10 provides a crisper base without the booming effect. (True for most subs) 

Next time you want to contradict me read the posts first and understand none of the information provided was done so with the intent he go purchase it all. I don't know how you think we could have solved his problems with 3 posts or so apiece. 

Like I said your points are valid but irrelevant because they don't fit the scope of what has been discussed so far which is simply that a system CAN be built for $500 that puts predesigned systems to shame in both quality and affordability.




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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

On a side note, I wouldn't touch the majority of your suggestions. Lightning audio while made by Rockford is like running a kicker amp, under powered and over priced. Kicker wiring? You're not going to beat the efficiency of Knukonceptz wiring at 95 cents a foot. 

You're shorting him on wire length as well for a clean install, remember he's a noob he needs to ensure he has enough for mistakes. 

One other thing I missed, you went suggesting two subs and he said simple, 2 subs 1) take up a lot of room and 2) are more expensive.




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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Livingfortheice said:


> Okay,
> So all the stuff i highlighted comes to a total of $96 not including your misc parts...
> Your last line about not rushing to buy, i hope you heed to your own words of advice...
> Also research is key here.
> ...


A few things to mention. Unless you are extremely strapped for cash, a 4 gauge wiring kit is recommended. You can use 8 gauge if you are 100% sure it is OFC and AWG spec, but I wouldn't really bother. It has been a very long time since I've run an 8 gauge wire. Heck, I'd rather run 0/1 gauge CCA than 8 gauge copper, although I'd need a distribution block to do so. 

Your amperage chart is not quite applicable to car audio applications. Allow me to explain. To begin, your amplifier will have to take into account efficiency, which is measured at a given impedance. On a two channel Class AB amp bridged to 4 ohms (two channels running at 2 ohms each), you are going to expect no better than 50% efficiency. However, you are running a sealed enclosure, which effectively means that you do not have to worry about the thermal limits of the subwoofer as you will reach its mechanical limits far sooner. Dynamic peaks (musical power) will be approximately 10x higher than what your RMS power will be. For example, if I have a dynamic peak in a song of 100W and I am playing music at that dynamic peak level, I will under no circumstances be dissipating more than 10W of heat through the voice coil. At a 50% efficiency, I will not draw more than 20W of power. The capacitors in the amplifier are generally capable of balancing that load to some extent, and the capacity of your wiring takes care of the rest. Anyways, before I digress, any subwoofer in this price point will bottom out with not much more than a 200W peak, in effect drawing on average no more than 20W RMS. We'll go up to 50W RMS assuming that some clipping is occurring or the owner has no idea that the former is smacking the backplate like it was a fast forward porno. 

Fuses exist for one purpose only: short circuit protection. That said, the distribution block on top of the battery is also fused in several convenient locations. I ran my amplifier to the 250A fuse and didn't need to purchase an inline fuse. Rather convenient. 

Crutchfield often has decent prices, but they all the more often have retail prices, which are overpriced compared to what you can purchase elsewhere. They have industry leading customer service, but then again, KNU Konceptz has industry leading cable quality and pricing. I have not yet found a reason to stray from them. 

Your analysis of 10" subwoofers and 12" subwoofers is only partially correct. How a subwoofer sounds with regard to transient response, output, and tonal accuracy has absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing to do with its size. If you wish to discover just how wrong your analysis is in that regard, you are free to come to the Lordstown meet and listen to my two 18" subwoofers. What you are looking for is a ratio of moving mass to motor strength with consideration for suspension stiffness. Generally speaking, for SQ subs, I will look for a low Qts in the 0.2x-0.3x range. Those will generally demonstrate both a considerable motor strength and a low moving mass. The reason why some people think that 10" subs have more "impact" or sound better than 12" subs is because most manufacturers will utilize the same motor structure for both subwoofers; thus raising the Qts of the 12" due to a higher moving mass than the 10". It leaves the false impression that all 12" subwoofers will sound better than their 10" counterparts, which really is just another reason why I hate car audio brands. 

Bandpass can be done effectively. In the tuned frequency passband, distortion is very low and group delay is nearly nonexistent. However, that passband is small. I have seen a couple of systems that were well designed, but the vast majority of bandpass enclosures are designed for raw output. Might as well be farting through a megaphone. Sealed enclosures will sound tighter and will give the impression of a faster response due to the group delay that plagues most vented enclosures. Vented (aka ported) enclosures utilize a port to create an augmented output. All augmented output has a delay, which causes bass to sound less clear, less tight, and generally more "muddy." There are some exceptions, and I have succeeded in making vented enclosures sound very close to sealed enclosures with the right design, but we aren't talking about simple enclosures anymore. As a general rule, cone area is king. Bass will, as a general rule, sound better when it is produced through more cone area instead of more augmented output or excursion. 

As for subwoofers, here's another to throw into the mix. 

Dayton Audio DCS255-4 10" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm | 295-202



iTz SADISTIK said:


> Living, while your points are somewhat valid here's what you missed. First those are not the exact components I would install IE the 100 amp fuse, it's a placeholder, second, why the **** would you install less than 4 gauge? To save yourself $3? I call bullsh*t. 8 gauge is a waste of your money because IF you do want to upgrade in the future you'll have a fun time rerunning wire because you went "cheap" and with the "basic" size for your install. Not to mention Alpine amps are underrated.
> 
> I was simply proving I can meet the $500 threshold and btw I did that in 10 mins while working today (like I even had time in the first place)
> 
> ...


Let's not be too quick to shoot down the recommendations of others. We're all here to help after all. We're not competing for who gives the best advice lol.


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

TBH I did PM an apology. It's late and been a long day. Not my typical response :S


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## Mamely014 (Apr 4, 2014)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> XtremeRevolution is correct. Kicker is only expensive because it's sold by big retail yet the components are, IMHO, garbage. A $35 pioneer subwoofer will sound better.... Definitely go with the PAC. I plan on installing my PAC near the radio and running RCA cables to the rear like any other install. If you are doing a single sub and amp you'll need 4 gauge wire. For the RCAs and 4 Gauge power/ground wire I would go with Knukonceptz brand off Ebay or Amazon. They sell it by the foot. I'll have to measure how much you'll need but 22' power is probably over estimating. You can go with their cheaper version that runs about $1.80 a foot if memory serves correctly. Ground wire you'll need about 4 ft or so. Here is a quick cost estimation run down for you. XtremeRevolution feel free to chime in with a different amp and sub but I'm going to recommend a basic setup that's 1) cost effective 2) simple, as he's not going for overkill here.
> 
> Amplifier($140): Amazon.com : Alpine MRV-M500 Mono subwoofer amplifier - 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms : Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers : Car Electronics
> Subwoofer($56): Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate R2D2-10 Prime R2 DVC 2 Ohm 10-Inch 250 Watts RMS 500 Watts Peak Subwoofer: Car Electronics
> ...


Wow is this really all you need to build a system?

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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Mamely014 said:


> Wow is this really all you need to build a system?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Yes and no, it is a quick run down of basic components. There is a wide array of things that can be installed additionally and I wouldn't necessarily go with those exact components in every situation either. But simply put to get a sub thumping, yes that's pretty much it.


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

Got another question, should I get that PAC or the big one? The big one seems be be essentially plug and play where as that one looks like it's splicing wires. I can splice wires, I'd just rather not.


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## Livingfortheice (Apr 22, 2014)

So i just wanted to throw up another response. iTz SADISTIK, i got your message. No hard feelings. Im not one to step on peoples toes, only try and throw my input in there and build off of others ideas... While my information is what ive learned and read online, i am not an expert in this area. I am easily a very well rounded hobbyist in the field. But don't ever think of my words as the end all be all statements of the century. 

And Xtreme. Thank you for your in depth input on my mistakes. I do not mean that sarcastically. You were not an @$$ about it by any means. You are someone who understands this stuff to the tee, and i love learning new information. I can take being wrong, and have no problem admitting it. I enjoyed learning the new stuff you informed me of.

Finally, I used Crutchfield as a starter place for finding stuff... While i have easily ventured away into different vendors of audio equipment, i think Crutchfield is the best place for a noob to start. That is why i pointed so many of my links to this place. If he wires up his subs or amps wrong and fries the whole thing, he can return it to crutchfield and get a replacement most of the time. Just has to say it was faulty to start... 

Either way, thanks for the info and i hope to contribute more to these forums in the future!

Ben


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

Livingfortheice said:


> So i just wanted to throw up another response. iTz SADISTIK, i got your message. No hard feelings. Im not one to step on peoples toes, only try and throw my input in there and build off of others ideas... While my information is what ive learned and read online, i am not an expert in this area. I am easily a very well rounded hobbyist in the field. But don't ever think of my words as the end all be all statements of the century.
> 
> And Xtreme. Thank you for your in depth input on my mistakes. I do not mean that sarcastically. You were not an @$$ about it by any means. You are someone who understands this stuff to the tee, and i love learning new information. I can take being wrong, and have no problem admitting it. I enjoyed learning the new stuff you informed me of.
> 
> ...


Even if you are a Bruins fan, I appreciate your input! Hopefully next season we'll be a force and give you a run for your money! (kidding on the Bruins fan part)


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Livingfortheice said:


> So i just wanted to throw up another response. iTz SADISTIK, i got your message. No hard feelings. Im not one to step on peoples toes, only try and throw my input in there and build off of others ideas... While my information is what ive learned and read online, i am not an expert in this area. I am easily a very well rounded hobbyist in the field. But don't ever think of my words as the end all be all statements of the century.
> 
> And Xtreme. Thank you for your in depth input on my mistakes. I do not mean that sarcastically. You were not an @$$ about it by any means. You are someone who understands this stuff to the tee, and i love learning new information. I can take being wrong, and have no problem admitting it. I enjoyed learning the new stuff you informed me of.
> 
> ...


Looks like words are always misread. I too start with Crutchfield and buy from other places. I'm as much of a hobbyist as yourself. I can verify Xtreme uses that name appropriately when it comes to audio as he's extremely involved and an audiohead to the definition-T lol. I think his setups are phenomenal but probably more than most people want to do. None the less he's as good a source for verifying the capabilities of the components in any system. Sorry I jumped your gun, just tired and I'm an avid hater of Kicker because they are overpriced for what you're actually getting. Tends to set off my warning alarm :S

Xtreme messaged me and made a good point: make sure your facts are straight and don't argue but simply post factual content that is hard to argue with 

and now, moving on to the OPS needs. I messaged him back this morning. I may not have all the time in the world to answer his questions as he installs so please feel free to help him out!!!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I prefer to take opportunities to teach people instead of telling them they're wrong. Preventing the spread of misinformation is always a high priority as the DIY car audio world is full of it. That, and as this forum grows, I won't have the time to respond to every single person that has questions. Teaching others reduces the number of questions I have to answer. 

While I do take the audio world to extremes, my designs are not intimidating. Simply put, they are the best bang for the buck, guaranteed. My approach to system design is not to throw better parts into the shopping cart, but to choose the parts based on measured performance like frequency response and harmonic distortion and design a system that can be tuned. This is why I have two driver combinations for a front sound stage, each which I have spent the time to tune and have published those tunes so getting the same precision measured results is just a matter of plug n play.



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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

Another update, just got my taxes back so I'm looking to start buying this week and this coming weekend, as I'll have a decent sized check from work coming. So far, the Alpine sub seems great, definitely want a box from Xtreme, the R2D2 that SADISTIK mentioned seems like a great sub, and unless anyone has a different suggestion, I think i'm going to go with that one. I'm still going to wait until midweek before I start purchasing anything for sure, but I cannot express my gratitude towards all of you that have helped me out, the Cruzetalk family is the best!


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

wingsfan24 said:


> Another update, just got my taxes back so I'm looking to start buying this week and this coming weekend, as I'll have a decent sized check from work coming. So far, the Alpine sub seems great, definitely want a box from Xtreme, the R2D2 that SADISTIK mentioned seems like a great sub, and unless anyone has a different suggestion, I think i'm going to go with that one. I'm still going to wait until midweek before I start purchasing anything for sure, but I cannot express my gratitude towards all of you that have helped me out, the Cruzetalk family is the best!


Remember I said that was just an example build; depending on how much you want to spend will DEFINITELY change my opinion on which subwoofer is best plus it will depend on the budget because the amp could change too. If you go a larger amp and the resonance is right in XRs box I would tell you to go with an alpine type-R sub over that Rockford sub but again it's all based on the Box physics and your budget. 

My advice though is to set a budget and stick with it because you can always do better but then you'll find yourself spending money you didn't want to. I'm famous for doing this, should probably take my own advice


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> Remember I said that was just an example build; depending on how much you want to spend will DEFINITELY change my opinion on which subwoofer is best plus it will depend on the budget because the amp could change too. If you go a larger amp and the resonance is right in XRs box I would tell you to go with an alpine type-R sub over that Rockford sub but again it's all based on the Box physics and your budget.
> 
> My advice though is to set a budget and stick with it because you can always do better but then you'll find yourself spending money you didn't want to. I'm famous for doing this, should probably take my own advice


Solution to spending too much money: learn to choose raw drivers so your money goes farther. 

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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Solution to spending too much money: learn to choose raw drivers so your money goes farther.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


**** you! I have rockford 6.5 ready to install that I pulled from my Infiniti and now I'm seriously thinking about selling and using your setup. I hate you


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> Remember I said that was just an example build; depending on how much you want to spend will DEFINITELY change my opinion on which subwoofer is best plus it will depend on the budget because the amp could change too. If you go a larger amp and the resonance is right in XRs box I would tell you to go with an alpine type-R sub over that Rockford sub but again it's all based on the Box physics and your budget.
> 
> My advice though is to set a budget and stick with it because you can always do better but then you'll find yourself spending money you didn't want to. I'm famous for doing this, should probably take my own advice


I'm just glad I posted in here because I was just going to go with a Bazooka Tube :tongue: But I've been looking around for different subs and I think that would be my best bet, I'm still sticking with my budget of 500, + or - 50 bucks, so if you have any suggestions that may be a bit more, just let me know. I'm not against spending a little more if it increases the quality a lot.


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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

Xtreme, I just saw your video on YT and I have to say that your box is exactly what I'm looking for. It's not too big (although i know the 10 inch will be a bit bigger than a an 8 inch) it's just right. Is that the one that's 225? Good song choice too!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

wingsfan24 said:


> Xtreme, I just saw your video on YT and I have to say that your box is exactly what I'm looking for. It's not too big (although i know the 10 inch will be a bit bigger than a an 8 inch) it's just right. Is that the one that's 225? Good song choice too!


Which video are you referring to? Got a link?

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## wingsfan24 (Apr 23, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Which video are you referring to? Got a link?
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Yessir! 
XtremeRevolution 8" SQ Kit - YouTube
I know this is off topic and probably very stupid, but when doing the Lightbulb Wire Harness upgrade, what bulbs are used, as in what size, like 9007? Because that's what I'm getting for suggestions and I don't want to buy the wrong ones.

EDIT: Nevermind, they're 9008's


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

Phillips Xtreme Vision 9008XVS2


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

wingsfan24 said:


> Yessir!
> XtremeRevolution 8" SQ Kit - YouTube
> I know this is off topic and probably very stupid, but when doing the Lightbulb Wire Harness upgrade, what bulbs are used, as in what size, like 9007? Because that's what I'm getting for suggestions and I don't want to buy the wrong ones.
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, they're 9008's


Is that the MRV 1000 or the MRP 1000?



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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> Is that the MRV 1000 or the MRP 1000?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


That was the MRP. I sold it along with the IDQ15.

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## nm13cruze (Apr 21, 2014)

So I am thinking about doing a sub as well, I already have a 4ga monster amp kit and a set of monster RCA's that I bought when I worked at ultimate electronics and got the hookup monster products so all I need is a amp and a sub. What I'm thinking about getting is this Amazon.com : JL Audio PWM110_JXWXv2 : Vehicle Speakers : Car Electronics. Tell me what you all think.


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## Livingfortheice (Apr 22, 2014)

nm13cruze said:


> So I am thinking about doing a sub as well, I already have a 4ga monster amp kit and a set of monster RCA's that I bought when I worked at ultimate electronics and got the hookup monster products so all I need is a amp and a sub. What I'm thinking about getting is this Amazon.com : JL Audio PWM110_JXWXv2 : Vehicle Speakers : Car Electronics. Tell me what you all think.


DO NOT get that sub. 1st its a shallow box, meant for tight area installation in trucks and smartcars or whatever... Talk to Xtreme, he can hook you up with some good recommendations.


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