# Shell Rotella T6 5W-30



## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Anybody thought about running it in their deleted cruze diesel? I know Amsoil reins supreme, just wondering if anybody has done any research on it... It would be nice to use 1 oil in all 3 of my vehicles that require 5w30. Right now I'm still running the Pensoil platinum Euro L dexos2 stuff. 

Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle Full Synthetic | Shell ROTELLA®

For the oil gurus: 

http://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/c8878a7f-be48-4555-a194-6c2b8a3ed1dc.pdf

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Aaron/VA said:


> Anybody thought about running it in their deleted cruze diesel? I know Amsoil reins supreme, just wondering if anybody has done any research on it... It would be nice to use 1 oil in all 3 of my vehicles that require 5w30. Right now I'm still running the Pensoil platinum Euro L dexos2 stuff.
> 
> Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle Full Synthetic | Shell ROTELLA
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


I used to use the 5W-40 version in my Duramax, then Cummins trucks. Seems to be decent oil, but as I understand, it's not a true synthetic. It's highly refined conventional oil. I now run Amsoil in the truck, the Penzoil Dexos2 or Amsoil in the Cruzes.

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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

I use it in a non deleted.

Its a high saps oil... Which has a chance of causing problems with the dpf. I hate how they sell it as "Low saps" though.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Since OP is deleted, is Dexos 2 no longer required? (Dexos 2 only needed for emissions systems?)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I see it a lot in my discussions with people in diesel groups. I'll share my findings. 

- It's a group 3 oil and a cheap one at that. Its primary draw is availability in local retail outlets and a "synthetic" label. 
- Shear stability in high-stress applications is not the best. The Miata crowd was getting 3k miles out of it before valvetrain chatter returned. Oil analysis reports confirmed the oil had thinned in viscosity, not related to fuel dilution. 
- The detergent/dispersant package is OK. Not great, not bad, but OK. Decent enough to get you through an OEM drain interval. Anything beyond that is questionable. 
- The volatility is high. The GM Gen1 Dexos1 spec required an oil with a volatility no higher than 13%. T6 came in at 12.8%, which means it performs at the level of a semi-synthetic 5W-30 with regard to volatility. I would have liked to see something closer to 10-11%. 
- This year's reformulation reduced the additive package for emissions compliance. It is low-saps, with respect to the applications it was intended for. Heavy duty diesels now using DPFs require a lower SAPS oil, and the CK-4 spec the new formula was adjusted to comply with reduces the oil's capabilities to meet those emissions requirements. Ford refused to warranty any engine issues if people used Rotella T6 in their powerstrokes for a while, not sure if that has changed. 

Honestly, not just trying to make a sales pitch here, but when Brad Herrman ran 65,000 miles on AMSOIL 5W-30 European Formula and the lab told him to run another 7,000 miles, I have to ask what's the point of using anything else, especially if you're deleted? There's a lot of value in being able to go even 15,000 miles on a single change, let alone 72,000 miles. That said, it's your car, and your money. 

I dumped 2 quarts of Rotella T6 in my sister in law's Volvo XC90 (which burns oil) on Saturday. I don't use it in anything I own.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Rivergoer said:


> Since OP is deleted, is Dexos 2 no longer required? (Dexos 2 only needed for emissions systems?)


Part of the specification for low sulphated ash would no longer be important.. that deals with DPF. The rest of the specifications would still be wise to follow. There were considerable efforts made by OEMs to get extended oil change intervals, this demanded much, much better oil. Dexos2 meets the standard for emmisions and extended drain intervals. Now it's likely T6 would also do fine there as well. But unless you compare all the specifications, it's a guess.

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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I see it a lot in my discussions with people in diesel groups. I'll share my findings.
> 
> - It's a group 3 oil and a cheap one at that. Its primary draw is availability in local retail outlets and a "synthetic" label.
> - Shear stability in high-stress applications is not the best. The Miata crowd was getting 3k miles out of it before valvetrain chatter returned. Oil analysis reports confirmed the oil had thinned in viscosity, not related to fuel dilution.
> ...


Will convincing, I've been told (on here I believe) that the 3000 series would be even better for a deleted cruze. Do you have any info on that? (We may have even spoke about this before between here and Facebook...)

What about the oil a lot of us currently use and available at Wal-Mart, the Pennzoil dexos2, has anyone done any testing on it? 

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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

The Pennzoil is fine... Don't think too hard on it. It's much easier to point out which oils not to use.

If you are going 15K miles and over, maybe then I'd be more picky and pick some of the better Mobil 1s or Amsoils. If you want to pull a brad you seriously need to get tested. Just because one engine can do 50k miles on Amsoil means absolutely nothing in the long run.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

oil is oil

filters are filters

dont overthink it


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

boraz said:


> oil is oil
> 
> filters are filters
> 
> dont overthink it


When i first bought my cruze. I got 33 mpg on the first tank. Took to dealer for the 1st freebie oil change. Mpg dropped to 29. Engine wouldn't cool down. After 12 hours at work temp was 120 degrees. A week later took it to jiffy lube. Mpg upped to 36. Engine cools down in a timely manner. 

I could tell you a whole bunch of other stories when i test oil back in the day and i was auto mechanic. And i could tell you stories about my experiences with semis. 

Sorry. But oil isn't oil and filters aren't filters. IT'S VERY WISE TO OVERTHINK.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> When i first bought my cruze. I got 33 mpg on the first tank. Took to dealer for the 1st freebie oil change. Mpg dropped to 29. Engine wouldn't cool down. After 12 hours at work temp was 120 degrees. A week later took it to jiffy lube. Mpg upped to 36. Engine cools down in a timely manner.
> 
> I could tell you a whole bunch of other stories when i test oil back in the day and i was auto mechanic. And i could tell you stories about my experiences with semis.
> 
> Sorry. But oil isn't oil and filters aren't filters. IT'S VERY WISE TO OVERTHINK.


regale me with stories, i have time.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I just use proper oil and filter and change per gm specs, I don’t over think it or spend bunches of hard earned money to send oil to a lab, not anything wrong with that, but if you change per gm specs it’s just not needed. But hey it’s a free country and we all have choices.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

I wouldn't say oil is oil unless you are a few qts low and on the side of the road. One would assume if you went against GM engineering and deleted, that one also went against GM engineering and their original oil intervals. I would still send off a sample vs just tossing oil or going along with what others said about the vehicle in front of you. Also realize "Brotella T6" formula has changed maybe a year a go so even the diehard T6 Subaru guys have slowly pulled away from it as old stock dried up.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Aaron/VA said:


> Will convincing, I've been told (on here I believe) that the 3000 series would be even better for a deleted cruze. Do you have any info on that? (We may have even spoke about this before between here and Facebook...)
> 
> What about the oil a lot of us currently use and available at Wal-Mart, the Pennzoil dexos2, has anyone done any testing on it?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


The Series 3000 is simply unnecessary. There aren't any benefits to it over the European formula. If the European formula can go 72,000 miles, what more would the Series 3000 give you? 

Honestly I think both would work very well in a deleted CTD, but we already have the analysis reports using the European formula, so knowing how well that works, I'd lean toward that option. 

I haven't seen any oil analysis reports at extended drains using Pennzoil's dexos2 spec oil, but to be frank, Pennzoil doesn't spend the money on the high end antioxidants and base oils that AMSOIL does, so you won't get the same results. Whether or not that will be of any consequence depends on your needs. 





boraz said:


> oil is oil
> 
> filters are filters
> 
> dont overthink it


Many people learned the hard way just how false those statements are.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

I can say, I got tired of putting good oil in my cheap ls cobalt and when it got around 160k it was using a little oil between changes. So my last oil change in that car was super tech, now I don't know the specs and what not, but that car used it up at a faster rate than anything I had before. Maybe the engine was getting worse, but my negligence and it's oil consumption left me about 3qts low and a spun bearing. 

I've always ran Mobil 1 in my other vehicles and have yet to have a problem. I didn't care about the cobalt as much and it cost me. So I look at oil a little harder now a days. That was a cheap engine to replace, the ctd, not so much. Thanks for the help guys. 

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Many people learned the hard way just how false those statements are.


im old as dirt and still waiting for a catastrophe from not using overpriced oils and filters and not changing them often enough


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Aaron/VA said:


> Will convincing, I've been told (on here I believe) that the 3000 series would be even better for a deleted cruze. Do you have any info on that? (We may have even spoke about this before between here and Facebook...)
> 
> What about the oil a lot of us currently use and available at Wal-Mart, the Pennzoil dexos2, has anyone done any testing on it?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk





boraz said:


> oil is oil
> 
> filters are filters
> 
> dont overthink it





boraz said:


> im old as dirt and still waiting for a catastrophe from not using overpriced oils and filters and not changing them often enough


My 2011 Odyssey has the Honda 3.5L V6 with VCM. VCM is Honda's version of displacement on demand. 

Common issues with the factory oil include gumming of the VCM solenoids and passages, harsh engagement of VCM, and eventually engine rebuilds. The problem is entirely avoidable by using an oil with better oxidation stability. This is also a very common issue with honda VTEC components and solenoids as well over time. 

My 124 Spider has the 1.4L Multiair Turbo. The Multiair system uses small oil passages for each intake valve pair which early in its production, ended up with varnish and oil deposits clogging the system and resulting in failures. That problem was remedied by requiring synthetic oil be used from the factory and on all subsequent changes. Going rate is $90 for a change of 4 quarts and a filter. I do it myself for that much for 3 changes. 

Anecdotally, we're noticing that the GM 5.3L truck engines are having fewer DoD lifter and cam failures when running AMSOIL than on factory oil. 

On the 6.7 Powerstroke, we're seeing high fuel dilution and high wear with Motorcraft and Rotella T6, with poor air release properties. Running a better oil like AMSOIL, Schaeffer's, or Lubrication Engineers is drastically cutting down on wear. 

On the 7.3 Powerstroke and other HEUI engines, long-term use of a high end synthetic oil results in FAR fewer stiction issues with the injectors. That's a real problem with those engines. Credit due to oxidation stability. 

Nissan VQ engines like the VQ35 and VQ37 have widespread issues with widened valve lash from poor quality oils, resulting in valvetrain noise. We're talking the Maxima, Altima, Pathfiinder, Murano, Quest, 350Z/370Z, G35/G37, etc. 

In the VW TDI groups, we're seeing HPFP failures because the cam operating the HPFP wears out due to poor shear stability and anti-wear performance in lesser oils. 

Then there's the myriad of oil consumption issues caused by piston rings sticking due to oxidation deposits from oils with poor oxidation stability. Then there's accelerated turbo wear that's been associated with Mobil 1 in some applications (some turbo rebuilders explicitly recommend against Mobil 1 even). 

I'm a member of more automotive communities than I can count, and I have seen failures and issues directly correlated to the long term use of a poor quality lubricant. Your sole anecdotal experience is not a solid basis from which to proclaim something as fact.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I used to be an amsoil user for my CTD and its a great product but at 22 bucks for 5 quarts of the dexo2 Pennzoil euro L oil at Wal-Mart I think you're a fool to use anything else...the amsoil isn't xxx dollars more worth it. 

I've thought about it long and hard. Weighed the facts (lots of uoa reports on the Pennzoil which were fantastic) and as long as I can get 5 quarts for 22 bucks nothing else is even worth considering for now.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I used to be an amsoil user for my CTD and its a great product but at 22 bucks for 5 quarts of the dexo2 Pennzoil euro L oil at Wal-Mart I think you're a fool to use anything else...the amsoil isn't xxx dollars more worth it.
> 
> I've thought about it long and hard. Weighed the facts (lots of uoa reports on the Pennzoil which were fantastic) and as long as I can get 5 quarts for 22 bucks nothing else is even worth considering for now.



End of the day, it all depends on how long you left the Amsoil in the car. If it gets dumped shortly after 7000 miles or sooner then yeah it's not really worth it in that aspect. For me and my gasser, I let it go for 14K miles swapping out the fiter in between. Current car the $22 Penzoil is literally what I use since it's a N/A leased vehicle.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I used to be an amsoil user for my CTD and its a great product but at 22 bucks for 5 quarts of the dexo2 Pennzoil euro L oil at Wal-Mart I think you're a fool to use anything else...the amsoil isn't xxx dollars more worth it.
> 
> I've thought about it long and hard. Weighed the facts (lots of uoa reports on the Pennzoil which were fantastic) and as long as I can get 5 quarts for 22 bucks nothing else is even worth considering for now.


Be careful what you use oil analysis for. Evaluating one oil against another, or using the analysis to make a decision on which oil to purchase, is not in the context of what oil analysis should be used for. 

I'm not saying Pennzoil euro L is a bad oil, so don't misunderstand me here, I'm cautioning you against using data out of context. A $30 oil analysis using pore blockage to measure particle counts is only effective between 1 and 6 microns, so you don't even have a full picture of the wear occurring. I'm fairly confident this is the reason people don't see a turbo failure coming until lead upticks and it's already too late. They don't see any wear prior to failure, yet they find play in the turbine shaft. You don't have any indication of air release properties, oxidation stability (and resulting deposit prevention in critical areas like turbo seals, piston rings, and the fuel pump), volatility and its effect on the EGR system and DPF (and consequently, the number of regen cycles), and other similar factors. The issues that come up from deficiencies in any of those areas are usually only seen long-term. 

I deal with oil analysis on a daily basis and have been studying to get into an industrial lubrication career. To summarize my objective here, please don't use oil analysis out of context.


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

Interesting to be reading this. I was actually going to start a thread to see if anyone who is deleted had changed up what oil they were using. The cost of oil never really bothers me. It doesn't need to be changed often enough to be a big deal. I've used the European Car Filter formula in mine ever since the free oil changes were up and used a Wix oil filter since the free changes were up as well. I have an Amsoil membership, so I run it in pretty much everything I own. From what I've read online it seems to be the best, so I think even though I'm now deleted, I'll stick with it.

XtremeRevolution, I find it interesting to hear your thoughts on Rotella T6. Up until reading your post, I think everything I had read on it makes it sound like it's God's gift to oil. lol


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## craig85006 (Mar 19, 2017)

I own a 2014 Cruze Diesel. My oil cap reads SAE 5W-30 DEXOS 2. I need to do an oil change and looking to use Rotella 5W-30 oil? Is this a good oil to use? I don't want to harm the engine. I normally have the car serviced at the dealer, but this time I am stemming out on my own. 

Please advise.

Thank you.

Craig Lambert


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

XtremeRevolution said:


> My 2011 Odyssey has the Honda 3.5L V6 with VCM. VCM is Honda's version of displacement on demand.
> 
> Common issues with the factory oil include gumming of the VCM solenoids and passages, harsh engagement of VCM, and eventually engine rebuilds. The problem is entirely avoidable by using an oil with better oxidation stability. This is also a very common issue with honda VTEC components and solenoids as well over time.
> 
> ...


Good post, except one detail: "In the VW TDI groups, we're seeing HPFP failures because the cam operating the HPFP wears out due to poor shear stability and anti-wear performance in lesser oils. " 

The HPFP in the VW TDI is not oil lubricated in any way, is lubricated by Diesel fuel only. VW wanted to blame it on stupid customers filling up with Gasoline, but that is just another VW deception. The reality is it's a crappy design with a single double lobed cam and roller to drive a single piston that cycles twice per revolution. The prior proven pumps were crank shaft and 3 pistons doing what one does in the crappy pump. 

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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Yup, the CP4 isnt oil lubricated. It's fully fuel lubed and cooled. Fuel issues kill them(water, low lubricity fuel, cavitation)


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Yup, the CP4 isnt oil lubricated. It's fully fuel lubed and cooled. Fuel issues kill them(water, low lubricity fuel, cavitation)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks for the correction guys, I had it confused with oil lubricated systems. That would make a pretty good case for the use of a fuel injector cleaner/lubricity additive however.


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## craig85006 (Mar 19, 2017)

I keep reading things about being 'deleted.' What exact does that mean?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

craig85006 said:


> I keep reading things about being 'deleted.' What exact does that mean?


A diesel vehicle that has been "deleted" has been modified to remove it's Emission control devices. Typically EGR, catalysts, and DEF injection.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

craig85006 said:


> I own a 2014 Cruze Diesel. My oil cap reads SAE 5W-30 DEXOS 2. I need to do an oil change and looking to use Rotella 5W-30 oil? Is this a good oil to use? I don't want to harm the engine. I normally have the car serviced at the dealer, but this time I am stemming out on my own.
> 
> Please advise.
> Thank you.
> ...


 If your car still has all factory exhaust, you will need to use DEXOS 2. Is Rotella DEXOS 2? I don't know but it will be labeled as such if it is. ​


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Thanks for the correction guys, I had it confused with oil lubricated systems. That would make a pretty good case for the use of a fuel injector cleaner/lubricity additive however.


It does, when I had one I used lubricity additive with the fuel, especially after finding fine metallic in the fuel filter, that VW said was "normal". When it came out that they cheated emmissions to save about $300 per car, it should not be surprising to learn they went with the crappy CP4 to save about $600 per car. 

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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I don't blame VW or Ford or GM exclusively for the cost cutting/money saving. It's Bosch's fault too. They shouldn't have allowed CP4s to be sold in countries with high scar rate fuels, they should have put some bearings in the followers, etc... I understand why they put CP4s in...Why wouldn't you? The CP3 was overkill for their needs. Its just that the CP4 can't be mistreated.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ma v e n said:


> I don't blame VW or Ford or GM exclusively for the cost cutting/money saving. It's Bosch's fault too. They shouldn't have allowed CP4s to be sold in countries with high scar rate fuels, they should have put some bearings in the followers, etc... I understand why they put CP4s in...Why wouldn't you? The CP3 was overkill for their needs. Its just that the CP4 can't be mistreated.


Do you have any idea how many diesel guys have come up to me and said "well I ran XYZ diesel for 300k miles and never had a problem so don't you tell me I need a lubricity additive now." 

A $1000 repair later, I get a phone call.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Ma v e n said:


> I don't blame VW or Ford or GM exclusively for the cost cutting/money saving. It's Bosch's fault too. They shouldn't have allowed CP4s to be sold in countries with high scar rate fuels, they should have put some bearings in the followers, etc... I understand why they put CP4s in...Why wouldn't you? The CP3 was overkill for their needs. Its just that the CP4 can't be mistreated.


Well, I do blame them. They didn't have to do it, and thankfully didn't on the Cruze. Ram didn't make that switch, staying with the CP3. There is a guy up in Canada that makes a kit to put a CP3 in the VW TDI... Had I kept that car I would have done that. There's no getting around the fact that a cam roller is a poor design. The surface contact pressure on the roller and cam is going to be very high, no matter what. Any contamination gets past the filter, or if a slight defect and that thing is going to self destruct. It's clearly much less complicated to produce, thus cheaper, but it is an inferior design. I think Bosch wasn't guilt free here either, but they had minimum lubricity specifications that were higher than typical US Diesel fuel, and it varied by region. I think they hid behind their specifications and pinned it on the vehicle manufacturers for bringing cars into markets with poor quality fuel. 

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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

craig85006 said:


> I own a 2014 Cruze Diesel. My oil cap reads SAE 5W-30 DEXOS 2. I need to do an oil change and looking to use Rotella 5W-30 oil? Is this a good oil to use? I don't want to harm the engine. I normally have the car serviced at the dealer, but this time I am stemming out on my own.
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> ...


No, Rotella 5W-30 will not work. Diesel oil for heavy trucks do not meet the same emissions requirements that ACEA C3/Dexos 2 cover.

The cheapest/fastest way is to just go to Wal Mart and buy the 5 qt jug of Pennzoil Dexos 2 that they carry. Many places also should have Valvoline 5W-40 MST which would work in a pinch. You could also buy Dexos2 from your Dealer.

If you have more time to spare, you could order online. Any 5W-30 or 0W-30 oil that meets ACEA C3 or Dexos 2 spec will work.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I used to be an amsoil user for my CTD and its a great product but at 22 bucks for 5 quarts of the dexo2 Pennzoil euro L oil at Wal-Mart I think you're a fool to use anything else...the amsoil isn't xxx dollars more worth it.
> 
> I've thought about it long and hard. Weighed the facts (lots of uoa reports on the Pennzoil which were fantastic) and as long as I can get 5 quarts for 22 bucks nothing else is even worth considering for now.


It would be hard to get someone to argue Amsoil isn't fantastic oil. But ya, at the cost, it's a hard sell. But there are more factors than just cost.

For about $65-70 bucks you could go 20-25k on a single oil change with Amsoil. But changing oil isn't just about topping off oil that has burnt off or replacing detergents and improving lubricity. Changing oil also means you are draining out the contaminants that have stuck to the oil. A major roll oil plays is to attach and lift contaminants off engine components. When you change it, all of that is flushed out.

I agree with you that I would rather have 3 oil changes of Pennzoil for the same money as a single Amsoil change. If I had an older car that perhaps wasn't as sensitive to oil like these cars are, I wouldn't hesitate to use Amsoil and go 20k or 1 year per change.


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