# CEL Again? Code P205B Need Help?



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

good luck! Does it affect driving?


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## Cass23VSU4 (Mar 13, 2014)

I had this same code close to a month ago at 31K miles. The P205B is DEF Temp Sensor Out of Range 9 (or some lingo similar) and unfortunately the sensor itself appears to be attached to/part of the tank so it has to be replaced. My drivability wasn't affected and it took about two weeks to replace it because in my case the CEL always turned off when I would pull up to the service lane after making an appointment. I caught it one day and drove straight to the dealership and made sure the service director saw the code. It took two days to fix.



This issue has been popular with Duramax, VW, and even the Dodge EcoDiesel. The bad thing is the sensor just craps out whenever, wherever and doesn't appear to be linked to any type of driving style or conditions. It wouldn't surprise me if Takata made the DEF tanks too.:dry:


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

warloc said:


> Hi, been here way too many times with my CTD. Had many CEL's first one off the lot (should have turned around found another car) lived thru it and moved on. CEL is the first thing I look at when starting up, even now at 56K. Last one is now a P205B and doing a little search seems to be DEF tank sensor. Read somewhere here that someone had to have the complete tank replaced for a sensor? Really? Why not just replace the whole car when something goes wrong? Will be contacting the dealer next week and hope emission parts are covered beyond 36K if not it may be time to... To bad, great little car that we really love but too many issues way too soon. I will let everyone know what happens. If anyone has had this code and has any information please chime in.


Hi Warloc, 

I truly apologize for this, and please feel free to let me know if you need any additional assistance with this further. I would be more than happy to get in touch with them on your behalf if needed. I look forward to your updates, and would be more than happy to help the best way possible. 

Patsy G
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

Contacted my local dealer with my problem and was informed that the DEF tank would be covered under emission warranty. I will have to bring it in so they can see code before parts are ordered, standard protocol. I was relieved to hear "covered" by service writer. Thank you GM customer care for your interest in customer satisfaction, it does not go unnoticed. I will update on the repair once completed. Car still performs normal so not rushing to drop it off.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

warloc said:


> Contacted my local dealer with my problem and was informed that the DEF tank would be covered under emission warranty. I will have to bring it in so they can see code before parts are ordered, standard protocol. I was relieved to hear "covered" by service writer. Thank you GM customer care for your interest in customer satisfaction, it does not go unnoticed. I will update on the repair once completed. Car still performs normal so not rushing to drop it off.


Good news!


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

Well we are picking up the car after having the dealer check it out. First thing, car is out of warranty including emissions. I was quoted $920 for a couple sensors PLUS 4 hours labor ($1420 total). Don't have the quote yet for exact details but enough said. Not happy right now and really regret purchase of this car and will consider getting rid of it and if I do I will never buy a Chevy again. At least its drivable and the first smog check is years away and I've really got used to seeing the CEL lite up ever since day ONE.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Wow! Sorry to hear. Is it too late to buy GMPP?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

warloc said:


> Well we are picking up the car after having the dealer check it out. First thing, car is out of warranty including emissions. I was quoted $920 for a couple sensors PLUS 4 hours labor ($1420 total). Don't have the quote yet for exact details but enough said. Not happy right now and really regret purchase of this car and will consider getting rid of it and if I do I will never buy a Chevy again. At least its drivable and the first smog check is years away and I've really got used to seeing the CEL lite up ever since day ONE.


What sensors did they say it needs? I can't imagine any of the sensors taking several hours to replace.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

I believe that one is NOX senor SP, PN 12641557 @ $436.56. The second is a module kit 61G, PN 22902634 @ $484.11. The labor was estimated at 4 hour's, possible DEF tank replacement? Labor is about $125 per hour. Even buying an extended warranty at 57K miles doesn't buy much piece of mind for very long. I'm going to check with other repair shops to see the cost elsewhere. The wife is leaning towards trade in at this time and I'm am too. I need reliable transportation for the next 250K and I don't see the CTD making it with out serious repair costs. I have owned several new Honda's and Toyota's and have never spent this kind of time and perspective costs in over a million CEL free miles.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

Have you considered doing an emissions delete like the one on page 6 at: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...hnical-discussion/57457-diesel-exhaust-6.html if the possibility becomes available? I imagine the cost (if you DIY the instalation) will be about equal to diagnosing and replacing 2 sensors at dealer labor rates and dealer parts markup. I know that if this becomes commercially available, I will be doing this upon my first CEL after 100k. It seems like 95%+ of the problems that do come up with the CTD are related to this absurd emissions junk that the government mandates, and if we could be rid of it, we would have a basically flawless vehicle. Since I don't live in an inspection state, I should be free and clear if I go ahead with it. 

Definitely shop around for the job, though. The dealer parts markups are ridiculous, even when you're comparing OEM to OEM. Dealer cost on my Particulate Matter Sensor was around $360, and I ended up finding it on Amazon for $136. Not sure where you live, but it must be a very high cost of living region for the labor rate to be $125/hr. That's nearly as much as it costs to get a lawyer in some places. Around here, I see rates around $85/hr. even at the dealer, and I don't think I've ever seen the rate top $100. 

Right now, I'm dealing with the P11D7 NOX sensor non-initiation CEL. It's my third in 42,000 miles (along with P0133 O2 sensor slow response and P24C6 particulate matter sensor). Since it doesn't negatively impact drivability, I'm not in a hurry to do anything about it, but I suppose I should do something before winter hits. I have noticed, though, that they seem to be popping up in the summer when I'm running a lot of short trips (from 4.5 blocks to 10 miles) with only 1 or 2 60+ mile highway runs per month, but in the winter when I'm driving 120 mile round trips 3-5 days a week, I rarely have a problem.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

warloc said:


> I believe that one is NOX senor SP, PN 12641557 @ $436.56. The second is a module kit 61G, PN 22902634 @ $484.11. The labor was estimated at 4 hour's, possible DEF tank replacement? Labor is about $125 per hour. Even buying an extended warranty at 57K miles doesn't buy much piece of mind for very long. I'm going to check with other repair shops to see the cost elsewhere. The wife is leaning towards trade in at this time and I'm am too. I need reliable transportation for the next 250K and I don't see the CTD making it with out serious repair costs. I have owned several new Honda's and Toyota's and have never spent this kind of time and perspective costs in over a million CEL free miles.


I feel for you - but in all honesty none of those cars were diesels with this emissions package.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

It only gets worse. After looking into the wonderful smog requirements here in California it seems diesels are exempt from the 6 year break on new vehicles before a smog check is needed (they charge a fee on registration). What this means is, come this December I will need to smog this car to get a registration. It does not get run on dyno just a check of all systems and a "joke test" oh smoke test. I would never consider pulling any emission crap. The DEF system is crap just like the early days of EGR and CAT. I'll keep my 7.3 SD, no DEF, no CEL's no problems now at 190K.


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## Zenturi (Jan 25, 2014)

I can't fault warloc for giving up. A *NEW* car should not be throwing CELs every six months. I've got 3.5 years left to pay on mine, and I'm already leaning towards buying the extended warranty for a year or two, then trading out when the loan is up.

I'm usually someone that drives a vehicle 10-15 years ... so it's not the plan I originally had when I bought my CTD.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I bought the max GMPP on mine at the time of delivery. 7/100 with $0 deductible. 

I've bought GMPP on all of my vehicles. 

On my DTS I was even allowed to buy two additional years of GMPP, after the initial six ran their course, for a total of eight years.


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## Zenturi (Jan 25, 2014)

Yeah I'm already mentally planning for my next vehicle. Loan is up April of 2019, so probably get a leftover 2018 Spark, Sonic, or Cruze for a fair price near that point, and trade out for what I reasonably can. Gasoline vehicles have improved pretty far, so it probably won't be another diesel. It'll be nice to have a hatchback though.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

I got the car back from the dealer, who was great dealing with the repair, drop off AM, pick up 5 hrs later. Total cost $777.68. The breakdown was $484 for module kit (DEF tank), $217 labor plus fluid. Service report stated "reduction temp sensor shorted internally". I'm going to see if this sensor affected the other code I get P11D7 before replacing NOX sensor, so far no CEL. After looking at all aspects of trading in I can pay for these two repairs twice with just the sales tax on a new car so I'm giving it another chance. After all it is a nice car, a great time to be driving diesel, and maybe the last repairs it will need for a long while.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Wow that hurts. But it's substantially less than the $1,420 they originally estimated. 

Glad it's fixed and that you've come back to close the loop for us.


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## Zenturi (Jan 25, 2014)

No matter the model, it's pretty hard to go to the dealer for anything important replaced, without it getting into the $700 range. IE, some $400 part, labor, disposal fees, tax. 

I've felt that with my Olds Intrigue service visits. I still keep it registered and driveable for various weekend "truck-ish errands" that I don't want to dirty my Cruze with.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

warloc said:


> I got the car back from the dealer, who was great dealing with the repair, drop off AM, pick up 5 hrs later. Total cost $777.68. The breakdown was $484 for module kit (DEF tank), $217 labor plus fluid. Service report stated "reduction temp sensor shorted internally". I'm going to see if this sensor affected the other code I get P11D7 before replacing NOX sensor, so far no CEL. After looking at all aspects of trading in I can pay for these two repairs twice with just the sales tax on a new car so I'm giving it another chance. After all it is a nice car, a great time to be driving diesel, and maybe the last repairs it will need for a long while.


May you have many trouble free miles


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

Its Back...... Less than 36 hours without a CEL and this AM wife goes to remote start and it shuts down in less than 5 seconds. Have my code reader to check message and P205B again. So, another bad DEF tank sensor? Did they even change it? This is getting to be more than my patience can tolerate so this may start my final issue with the CTD. Even Honda sounds good at this point, next repair will need only to get a few miles, to trade this POS in. Last Chevy for me, never again I'm done.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Wow. Seriously not good. Please keep us informed.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

warloc said:


> Its Back...... Less than 36 hours without a CEL and this AM wife goes to remote start and it shuts down in less than 5 seconds. Have my code reader to check message and P205B again. So, another bad DEF tank sensor? Did they even change it? This is getting to be more than my patience can tolerate so this may start my final issue with the CTD. Even Honda sounds good at this point, next repair will need only to get a few miles, to trade this POS in. Last Chevy for me, never again I'm done.


Hi Warloc, 

I'm so sorry for this! I completely understand how frustrating this may seem. This is not the impression we wanted to provide you as our customer, and if there is anything that I can look into further on my end, do not hesitate to reach out to me in a private message. 

I look forward to your updates soon. 

Patsy G
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

Patsy G, thanks for your concern, I just returned from a trip and now back to dealing with a CEL. I have done some research and this is a cross the board problem on GM and Chevy diesel from 2011 to 2015. There a lot of people hoping GM steps up and fixes this problem on there dime regardless of miles or years. This is wrong to make the customer responsible for emission problem before major power train is up. I have had many sensor issues so I guess I should expect more. BTW I have a close buddy, has 48K on his CTD and never an issue yet? I must have a lemon, would GM just buy it back ?


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Wow Warloc, sorry to hear about your issues. I have had 3 cels myself and I have 18k on my car. Now everything seems OK. I hope GM does the right thing with this car and by you. No way should these cels should be the responsibility of the owner on a 40k mileage car with a history of issues. Ridiculous. But GM's track record is not exactly stellar with customer care AFTER a purchase. Look at the ignition problem they "addressed". That was a frigging joke and waste of peoples time.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

Well I dropped the CTD off at the dealer yesterday and this is what they did under the warranty of previous replacement of DEF tank and sensor module. " found B212 reductant sensor module shorted internally. Replaced sensor module 2070381 3120 (S) module". Dealer performed repair same day and I have to add was stellar. BTW, I get a call from my friend that up to yesterday has had zero problems on his CTD, got HIS first CEL at 48K, P2598 turbo boost sensor A. I'm just about ready to trade in, on fixed income and do not want to spend my retirement at dealer spending big money to keep driving a Chevy or any other brand for that matter. Test drove a new Honda yesterday, hope my CEL stays off for a week!


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