# Possible Negative Battery Cable Issue



## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Did you inspect the cable for corrosion? What setting is your HVAC set to? I have the original cable and haven't had any issues.

As far as the volume, there is a setting to reset the volume to a specific value on startup. Mine is set to 10, that way I don't start the car and blow my eardrums out at 5am lol maybe check what yours is set to?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Yeah, I think the radio is normal. The alternator is controlled by the BCM and I suspect it's dropping the alternator to allow the engine to do that initial "get underway". The load and the health of the battery will determine how noticeable that is. 

I've been noticing that on startup, there's a several second delay before the alternator kicks in, and it's noticeable in the headlight brightness. At least, that's my theory. It appears to be waiting to make sure the engine is stable before turning on the alternator load.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Is it the original Battery? If so, I would recommend early replacement. The original Battery had only 730cca, while the Delco replacement has 850cca. Both my 2015s have new batteries. The originals were still working, but cranking was getting slower and the voltage would fluctuate more, similar to what you describe here, not so much with the new and improved batteries. Right now Amazon has. 20% off coupon.. makes it about $150, pretty hard to beat for an AGM Battery. 

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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

MRO1791 said:


> Is it the original Battery? If so, I would recommend early replacement. The original Battery had only 730cca, while the Delco replacement has 850cca. Both my 2015s have new batteries. The originals were still working, but cranking was getting slower and the voltage would fluctuate more, similar to what you describe here, not so much with the new and improved batteries. Right now Amazon has. 20% off coupon.. makes it about $150, pretty hard to beat for an AGM Battery.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Yes, original battery. Any other reasons to do an early swap? Could it cause permanent damage to any electrical components with the fluctuating voltage? I'll keep an eye on the voltage today to see if I notice anything. I'm in Canada so your coupon probably won't apply to Canadian Amazon. I'll have a look around for this battery though. Cranking is definitely getting slower.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Your battery will not survive a sustained cold snap.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

LiveTrash said:


> Yes, original battery. Any other reasons to do an early swap? Could it cause permanent damage to any electrical components with the fluctuating voltage? I'll keep an eye on the voltage today to see if I notice anything. I'm in Canada so your coupon probably won't apply to Canadian Amazon. I'll have a look around for this battery though. Cranking is definitely getting slower.


Definitely replace the battery. The starter draws more AMPS with a voltage is LOWER.. it's basic ohm's law, and the extra current stresses the starter, the solenoid, and then once you do start, the alternator works harder trying to charge that back, to a battery that is not playing as it should and could. Most of the electronics should be internally protected.. but there is no question that unstable voltage increases the likelihood that those internal protections are single point safe and the possibility of additional damage increases sharply. The battery is the most likely component in a modern car to fail and leave you stranded.. it's simply not worth saving a few bucks to hold out on replacing it until it does fail hard, especially given the damage to the starting and charging system that can happen in the dying last days of the battery. There was a time when the electrical demands were pretty small to run a car, just the ignition and headlights at night, in fact the headlights were the big load, once running.. in those days you could get away with pushing a battery to failure and have some time to plan, those days are gone.. you need power to run the fuel pump, the ECU, the glow plugs, and all the other computers, BCU, Airbags, etc.. all that before you even turn the key to engage the big load of the starter.. The first sign of slow cranking, or other sign of battery failure.. do not hesitate, replace, you won't regret it.. you can have the old load tested and see exactly what is going on, I'm sure it will fail the 365 amp test, the new one has a 425 amp test, right there tells me the new battery is significantly improved, along with 850cca vs. the original only being 730cca.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

[h=1]Special Coverage #14311: Negative Battery Cable[/h]


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g...scussion/155881-factory-battery-replaced.html


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

What should I be searching for in Canada? Can't find it on Amazon and to buy from NorthStar's website is going to cost way more in shipping than I want to spend.

Am I just as well off going to the dealer to get one from them? :/


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

LiveTrash said:


> What should I be searching for in Canada? Can't find it on Amazon and to buy from NorthStar's website is going to cost way more in shipping than I want to spend.
> 
> Am I just as well off going to the dealer to get one from them? :/


A few ideas on battery brands here http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g...scussion/211202-diehard-gold-agm-battery.html

This http://www.remybattery.com/intimida...MIpuWzhcWI2AIVisVkCh1hbA5CEAkYASABEgJt8PD_BwE is the battery I got in October.

As far as Canadian batteries, I’m in the lower 48. Maybe @*Tomko* or @*boraz* can help.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> A few ideas on battery brands here http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g...scussion/211202-diehard-gold-agm-battery.html
> 
> As far as Canadian batteries, I’m in the lower 48. Maybe @Tomko or @boraz can help.


I don’t think sears is selling that battery anymore, I don’t see it on the their website.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

LiveTrash said:


> What should I be searching for in Canada? Can't find it on Amazon and to buy from NorthStar's website is going to cost way more in shipping than I want to spend.Am I just as well off going to the dealer to get one from them? :/


Battery Plus


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

LiveTrash said:


> I'm using the full fan speed and have the heat on maximum (I assume activating the electric heater assist)


Been curious for a couple of days to understand why you would be operating your HVAC on max heat and max fan speed. 

We’re you intentionally trying to test your electrical system?


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

This link doesn't work? https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006N91C2M?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd

Looks like the price dropped again still showing 20% coupon.. not sure if that will work in Canada. I got free prime shipping, delivery in 2 days.. 

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Search for "ACDelco 94RAGM Professional AGM Automotive BCI Group 94R Battery"

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Wow, is it really that insanely overpriced in Canada on Amazon? Found it here: https://www.amazon.ca/ACDelco-94RAGM-Professional-Automotive-Battery/dp/B006N91C2M

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

$220 at canadian tire

i get my batteries at costco

still on OG one in the cruze


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## weimerrj (Dec 4, 2011)

Tomko said:


> Your battery will not survive a sustained cold snap.


Or often a short one.


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## weimerrj (Dec 4, 2011)

I bought an Advance Auto Parts AGM battery, one size larger than stock, and it was *less* expensive than a regular size and style battery. 

Still about $180, though.


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

MRO1791 said:


> Wow, is it really that insanely overpriced in Canada on Amazon? Found it here: https://www.amazon.ca/ACDelco-94RAGM-Professional-Automotive-Battery/dp/B006N91C2M
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


That Amazon price is ridiculous. I guess there was a new battery place that opened near me and didn't realize. Anyway, I found the NSB-AGM94R battery and they sold it to me for $309 Canadian. Not bad I guess. 4 year guarantee replacement warranty.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

My battery started sounding like it was gonna die last year about this time, cranking kind of slow. I let it ride and it’s still doing fine now, a year later. Batteries are expensive. I wait until they die to replace them lol.

As far as ohms law, that doesn’t necessarily apply when a battery is the power source, the voltage and amperage fluctuate and are limited to what the battery can supply.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

LiveTrash said:


> That Amazon price is ridiculous. I guess there was a new battery place that opened near me and didn't realize. Anyway, I found the NSB-AGM94R battery and they sold it to me for $309 Canadian. Not bad I guess. 4 year guarantee replacement warranty.


Fair price. How’s it running now, all the electrical gremlins gone?


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> My battery started sounding like it was gonna die last year about this time, cranking kind of slow. I let it ride and it’s still doing fine now, a year later. Batteries are expensive. I wait until they die to replace them lol.
> 
> As far as ohms law, that doesn’t necessarily apply when a battery is the power source, the voltage and amperage fluctuate and are limited to what the battery can supply.


Look at the first answer:

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/7759/is-a-bad-battery-bad-for-other-components-too

You are free to gamble on a dying Battery and chance far more expensive damage and be standed if you like. I don't find it to be a risk worth taking. 

The original Battery was under capacity, not sure why, even the window sticker said 800cca Battery, but it wasn't, it was 730cca. Many documented early failures here.. that is enough for me to not take that gamble

Also check this out:

https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/experience/2013/12/can-low-voltage-damage-starter


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Breakdown due to Battery: most common cause of a breakdown

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/what_causes_car_batteries_to_fail

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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MRO1791 said:


> Look at the first answer:
> 
> https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/7759/is-a-bad-battery-bad-for-other-components-too
> 
> ...


I’m not arguing the principles of ohms law. I’m saying those principles don’t always apply when a battery is the power source. I’m also not saying that low voltage won’t damage a starter. I’m saying that the way low voltage can damage is starter is not by providing it with too much current. 

Yes according to ohms law when voltage goes down amperage goes up. When you have a dying battery not only does voltage go down but so does it’s capacity as far as amperage. So saying that a battery with low voltage is going to cause the amperage to your starter to go through the roof isn’t really true. A battery isn’t an “unlimited” source of power like it is in a house for example. Usually a battery that is low on voltage is also low on amperage capacity. If your statement was true, a battery at 8 volts would crank as fast as a battery at 12 volts, it would just put out more amps to do it. This doesn’t happen because a battery only has a limited supply of current.

Regardless, like I said, I don’t replace em until they fail to start or almost fail to start. That’s what I do, everyone else is free to do as they want. I would have wasted 200 dollars on a battery a year ago if I would have replaced it just because. That battery is still going strong today.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> I’m not arguing the principles of ohms law. I’m saying those principles don’t always apply when a battery is the power source. I’m also not saying that low voltage won’t damage a starter. I’m saying that the way low voltage can damage is starter is not by providing it with too much current.
> 
> Yes according to ohms law when voltage goes down amperage goes up. When you have a dying battery not only does voltage go down but so does it’s capacity as far as amperage. So saying that a battery with low voltage is going to cause the amperage to your starter to go through the roof isn’t really true. A battery isn’t an “unlimited” source of power like it is in a house for example. Usually a battery that is low on voltage is also low on amperage capacity. If your statement was true, a battery at 8 volts would crank as fast as a battery at 12 volts, it would just put out more amps to do it. This doesn’t happen because a battery only has a limited supply of current.
> 
> Regardless, like I said, I don’t replace em until they fail to start or almost fail to start. That’s what I do, everyone else is free to do as they want. I would have wasted 200 dollars on a battery a year ago if I would have replaced it just because. That battery is still going strong today.


Your point ignores back EMF within the motor. Back EMF lowers the current, as the motor increases in speed. This explains starting surge in a motor, with lower, much lower running current. Having it turn over slowly maintains a longer period of excessive amperage, with no back EMF, and it risks not attaining the needed speed to start the engine, as I said, gamble with damaging the starter if you wish. It DOES risk damage, and it has been observed in real world conditions, see the links I posted previously. Oh, I got the replacement battery for about $150 shipped to my door, totally worth it. 

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Look at this on back EMF.. note that the equation for current has voltage within it, as voltage goes down, the current does in fact go up. I get that a weak battery will have limited current capability, generally, but not always, especially an AGM battery, which is designed specifically to put out high current, and take high charge current. You are taking the gamble to hold on to a battery that is showing signs of failure, as I said, that's certainly your call... but I can for sure tell your starter, and/or alternator is far, far more expensive as a part, and certainly in labor to replace.. so for me there was no hesitation.. first sign the known undersized, known prone to early failure OEM installed battery... and that was plenty for me. Do I which GM had used a better battery, perhaps one that actually matched the window sticker's 800cca, Yes! Of course I do... but the fuel savings in a couple of years make the cost of that battery negligible in comparison, and the car is fun to drive... so it's not worth getting all upset over it, especially when able to get a new, improved battery for about $150, and replacement takes about 20 minutes. 

https://www.electrical4u.com/starting-methods-to-limit-starting-current-torque-of-dc-motor/

and this on a series wound motor: 

https://www.electrical4u.com/series-wound-dc-motor-or-dc-series-motor/


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MRO1791 said:


> Look at this on back EMF.. note that the equation for current had voltage within it, as voltage goes down, the current does in fact go up. I get that a weak battery will have limited current capability, generally, but not always, especially an AGM battery, which is designed specifically to put out high current, and take high charge current. You are taking the gamble to hold on to a battery that is showing signs of failure, as I said, that's certainly your call... but I can for sure tell you a starter, and or alternator is far, far more expensive as a part, and certainly in labor to replace.. so for me there was no hesitation.. first sign the known undersized, known prone to early failure OEM installed battery... and that was plenty for me. Do I which GM had used a better battery, perhaps one that actually matched the window sticker's 800cca, Yes! Of course I do... but the fuel savings in a couple of years make the cost of that battery negligible in comparison, and the car is fun to drive... so it's not worth getting all upset over it, especially when able to get a new, improved battery for about $150, and replacement takes about 20 minutes.
> 
> https://www.electrical4u.com/starting-methods-to-limit-starting-current-torque-of-dc-motor/
> 
> ...


If the battery has enough power in it to start the car then your alternator will be fine. The problem of killing alternators comes about when the battery starts to have to be jumped because it is so low and the alt can’t supply enough current to recharge it. But as long as it’s starting repeatedly under its own power, the alternator will be fine. Like I said to each his own. I don’t replace mine until it dies and that’s just how I do it.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> If the battery has enough power in it to start the car then your alternator will be fine. The problem of killing alternators comes about when the battery starts to have to be jumped because it is so low and the alt can’t supply enough current to recharge it. But as long as it’s starting repeatedly under its own power, the alternator will be fine. Like I said to each his own. I don’t replace mine until it dies and that’s just how I do it.


These cars have a 140Amp alternator. That is plenty to charge the battery under any normal condition, if the battery fails, including a bad cell, it WILL damage the alternator. A battery showing its age by slow cranking, despite a recent full charge, is one that is getting close to some type of failure. The problem is that PEAK alternator output, not at idle.. at idle it's less than 140, thus it will work at full field, and at the lower RPM have less air flow, and heat up more, which in turn lowers life, and output. I do not think it was coincidence that when I let my batteries go to their full death on my 1996 Saturn (twice), I did that because I figured it was more economical, and I could always push start it provided it had enough to run the ECU and ignition, and did so, both times.. I do not think it was coincidence within a very short time of the battery death, the alternator died, TWICE. That car now has just shy of 200K miles.. the battery is getting weak again, and I often save the starter and just roll start it, easy to do in a manual... but I'm not waiting for the full dead battery to replace it (new one on order), the current one has been there since early 2011.. so close to 7 years.. I'm not going to push it to see if I can get another year, and end up with replacing the alternator yet again.. fortunately the starter has been OK, but it's not a 16.5:1 Diesel engine it has to start.. so it really doesn't work very hard, so it's not comparable for the starter. It also does not have GLOW plugs. 

Just as an example, I had less than one year old Odyssey AGMs fail in my truck, and I got lucky it didn't do some other damage, but it was only because it had 2 in parallel, the alternator still had the one good battery, until the other bad battery killed the other while testing, I saw voltage going past 15V, and shut it down at 16 and rising.. this due to the battery failing, and it affects the voltage regulation.. it was a mess, the AGM began to off gas, and LEAK.... fortunately both were replaced under warranty, and I did not get stranded somewhere because of this problem.

As I have said all along, you are free to take the risk, that is your choice, not mine.. I'm not trying to make you change your opinion either, I want others to know the danger and decide for themselves, and learn from my study and experience... We all are free to choose what we want to accept as risk.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MRO1791 said:


> I do not think it was coincidence that when I let my batteries go to their full death on my 1996 Saturn (twice), I did that because I figured it was more economical, and I could always push start it provided it had enough to run the ECU and ignition, and did so, both times.. I do not think it was coincidence within a very short time of the battery death, the alternator died, TWICE.


Man I just said in my previous post that I agree that letting a battery die to the point of needing to jump/push start it can damage an alternator. Of course. I know that. I said that if the car is starting under its own power then you are fine. Yours was not. Of course if you let it die completely and keep push starting it/jumping it it can cause problems. That’s not even something I debated lol. Also saying that slow cranking is a sign of a failing battery and is going to damage your car isn’t accurate. Temperature is a big factor in how your car cranks. If it’s 0 degrees outside your car is going to crank slower. Saying that someone needs to replace their battery strictly because of the way it sounds when it cranks is crazy. Getting it load tested would be the right thing to do. My car’s slow crank last year was attributed to a high compression Diesel engine with a relatively small battery in sub freezing temperatures. Nothing wrong with the battery. But going by the “oh it sounds slow better replace it” technique I would have literally thrown money in the trash for a new battery.

Anyway sorry OP, didn’t think making a simple statement about when I choose to change my battery would get this thread thrown so far off track. Guess I shoulda replaced my battery a year ago even though it still works fine to this day lol


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

What kind of setup is this? I just got in to the process of getting the battery out and there's 10,000 different nut sizes and 10,000 brackets holding this thing in. Anyone have an instructional video? The ones I've been finding for the gas model are different than the Diesel.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Check posts 33-36 here http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...ion/172337-getting-more-diesel-battery-4.html


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

I had the battery store do my install, but from what I observed the key is ‘flipping’ the fuse box 180 degrees back toward the firewall and removing the diagonal brace.


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> I had the battery store do my install, but from what I observed the key is ‘flipping’ the fuse box 180 degrees back toward the firewall and removing the diagonal brace.


Thanks for the reply. I couldn't load the page for some reason but ended up getting it. I got that fuse box pulled back just fine but there was a bracket at the opposite end that was not removable (or didn't seem to be). I bent it back a bit and pulled the battery out diagonally. It wasn't pretty but it came out without breaking anything. The new one went in the same way. Car seems to crank faster. I'll have to observe the other things later, but at least the more powerful one is in and working. I have a dashcam system that was constantly turning off due to the battery voltage dropping too low. This replacement should resolve that.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> Man I just said in my previous post that I agree that letting a battery die to the point of needing to jump/push start it can damage an alternator. Of course. I know that. I said that if the car is starting under its own power then you are fine. Yours was not. Of course if you let it die completely and keep push starting it/jumping it it can cause problems. That’s not even something I debated lol. Also saying that slow cranking is a sign of a failing battery and is going to damage your car isn’t accurate. Temperature is a big factor in how your car cranks. If it’s 0 degrees outside your car is going to crank slower. Saying that someone needs to replace their battery strictly because of the way it sounds when it cranks is crazy. Getting it load tested would be the right thing to do. My car’s slow crank last year was attributed to a high compression Diesel engine with a relatively small battery in sub freezing temperatures. Nothing wrong with the battery. But going by the “oh it sounds slow better replace it” technique I would have literally thrown money in the trash for a new battery.
> 
> Anyway sorry OP, didn’t think making a simple statement about when I choose to change my battery would get this thread thrown so far off track. Guess I shoulda replaced my battery a year ago even though it still works fine to this day lol


I'll make this short: car window sticker says 800cca battery, actual Battery: 730cca. 

Replacement AC Delco Battery has 850cca, LTA 425, original 325.. indicating higher capacity than original Battery. 

Problem#1 original Battery undersized, who knows why, it just is.

Next, Many, many early hard failures reported here on this site, to include failed load tests. That is problem #2. 

By all means test if you want! Have at it. I call these two points an indicator. Personally I'd rather not waste time trying to see if I got a "good" undersized Battery.. but do so if you like, by all means, have at it! 

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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

This debate about battery size is a real yawner. I have an electrical engineering degree and I do not fret over battery size, if you have issues like the op did, just replace battery and drive the car. I find this sort of discussion useless.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

LiveTrash said:


> Thanks for the reply. I couldn't load the page for some reason but ended up getting it. I got that fuse box pulled back just fine but there was a bracket at the opposite end that was not removable (or didn't seem to be). I bent it back a bit and pulled the battery out diagonally. It wasn't pretty but it came out without breaking anything. The new one went in the same way. Car seems to crank faster. I'll have to observe the other things later, but at least the more powerful one is in and working. I have a dashcam system that was constantly turning off due to the battery voltage dropping too low. This replacement should resolve that.


That metallic bracket in the front snaps in place, removes/installs vertically. The one 10mm nut holding the electrical module can be removed, push module out of the way. Then pop the metal bracket (pry under it/top of Battery, gently, and it will release. Pull straight up, leaving a clear path for the Battery. Install reverse from removal. For the Battery fuse box, I just remove the starter large wire, and leave rest connected, plenty of wiggle room to keep it out of the way. You should not have to bend the metal bracket to remove the battery, though many have, and I almost did when I replaced on the first car.

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> This debate about battery size is a real yawner. I have an electrical engineering degree and I do not fret over battery size, if you have issues like the op did, just replace battery and drive the car. I find this sort of discussion useless.


Concur, the OP had issues, my recommendation was to replace. The counter point was to hold out, certainly that is an option, an option one does and chooses at some risk. To say it doesn't risk damage is to set people up, and lead them astray.. my discussion was to ensure they well understand the risks of holding out on battery replacement. There is an issue noted in these forums with early battery failure, and the window sticker says 800cca, when actually it's 730cca.. and the replacement AC Delco is 850cca. Something appears to have been messed up in the logistics chain. That many early battery failures is unusual. My 2 cars both start much better with the new batteries. For a awhile I had one with the replacement battery and other with original, you could tell which one was starting because it was that obvious, just by sound.

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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MRO1791 said:


> Concur, the OP had issues, my recommendation was to replace. The counter point was to hold out, certainly that is an option, an option one does and chooses at some risk. To say it doesn't risk damage is to set people up, and lead them astray.. my discussion was to ensure they well understand the risks of holding out on battery replacement. There is an issue noted in these forums with early battery failure, and the window sticker says 800cca, when actually it's 730cca.. and the replacement AC Delco is 850cca. Something appears to have been messed up in the logistics chain. That many early battery failures is unusual. My 2 cars both start much better with the new batteries. For a awhile I had one with the replacement battery and other with original, you could tell which one was starting because it was that obvious, just by sound.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Makes sense, I have been tempted to replace mine before it fails just so it doesn’t fail. Just haven’t done it yet. My only point is the battery needs to be right physical size but I am not sure the cca will make a huge difference unless in a very very cold climate. My battery works fine right now so I just use it. Everyone drives differently as well, if your driving 5 miles and shutting off and parking outside battery may not last as long as it may for me when I drive 100 miles then turn car off. Whew...


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## jakenkaiser (May 17, 2017)

i have a 2014 CTD with a good battery. 101k miles at this time, bought with 40k, issue has been present ever since purchase. when taking off after coming to a stop, sometimes my car takes a few seconds, then SLAMS back into gear. i have had it in and out of 3 different dealerships i dont even know how many times trying to figure out the cause, they all keep telling me they dont know whats causing it, or "thats the nature of the beast" i refuse to accept thats the way the car is supposed to be. sometimes if im on a hill at a red light in traffic, ill take my foot off the brake and the car will just drift backwards for a few seconds until finally slamming back into gear, sometimes chirping the tires. it is dangerous, because the person behind me probably sees my brake lights go off, and thinks im about to accelerate, but then my car just starts floating backwards towards them as they accelerate towards me. 


anyways, ive noticed this seems to happen more when the voltage is lower (ive heard these cars will lower voltage at times for fuel economy). my general idea was that maybe when the voltage is around 12-13v, rather than 14v+, the trans has trouble engaging back into gear because its not at the prescribed voltage. 

im not sure, this is just something ive come up with trying to figure out whats wrong with my car since CHEVROLET cant..... smh. 

ps i have had the negative cable replaced.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> This debate about battery size is a real yawner. I have an electrical engineering degree and I do not fret over battery size, if you have issues like the op did, just replace battery and drive the car. I find this sort of discussion useless.


That’s pretty much what I was saying. If it’s starting, drive it. No need to be scared of everything.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

jakenkaiser said:


> i have a 2014 CTD with a good battery. 101k miles at this time, bought with 40k, issue has been present ever since purchase. when taking off after coming to a stop, sometimes my car takes a few seconds, then SLAMS back into gear. i have had it in and out of 3 different dealerships i dont even know how many times trying to figure out the cause, they all keep telling me they dont know whats causing it, or "thats the nature of the beast" i refuse to accept thats the way the car is supposed to be. sometimes if im on a hill at a red light in traffic, ill take my foot off the brake and the car will just drift backwards for a few seconds until finally slamming back into gear, sometimes chirping the tires. it is dangerous, because the person behind me probably sees my brake lights go off, and thinks im about to accelerate, but then my car just starts floating backwards towards them as they accelerate towards me.
> 
> 
> anyways, ive noticed this seems to happen more when the voltage is lower (ive heard these cars will lower voltage at times for fuel economy). my general idea was that maybe when the voltage is around 12-13v, rather than 14v+, the trans has trouble engaging back into gear because its not at the prescribed voltage.
> ...


Sounds more likely to be a transmission issue and dealer didn’t properly address issue and now the drivetrain warranty is over.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

jakenkaiser said:


> i have a 2014 CTD with a good battery. 101k miles at this time, bought with 40k, issue has been present ever since purchase. when taking off after coming to a stop, sometimes my car takes a few seconds, then SLAMS back into gear. i have had it in and out of 3 different dealerships i dont even know how many times trying to figure out the cause, they all keep telling me they dont know whats causing it, or "thats the nature of the beast" i refuse to accept thats the way the car is supposed to be. sometimes if im on a hill at a red light in traffic, ill take my foot off the brake and the car will just drift backwards for a few seconds until finally slamming back into gear, sometimes chirping the tires. it is dangerous, because the person behind me probably sees my brake lights go off, and thinks im about to accelerate, but then my car just starts floating backwards towards them as they accelerate towards me.
> 
> 
> anyways, ive noticed this seems to happen more when the voltage is lower (ive heard these cars will lower voltage at times for fuel economy). my general idea was that maybe when the voltage is around 12-13v, rather than 14v+, the trans has trouble engaging back into gear because its not at the prescribed voltage.
> ...


Interesting. The car does do a charge profile to save fuel, and it does vary the voltage quite a bit. That said, do you have original transmision fluid? If so that could be a problem. It's totally BS saying these are lifetime fill. I changed one of mine at 45k and it was really worn out fluid in it. Shift quality greatly improved with new fluid. There is a great write up in the DIY section. Next, I'm an advocate of not waiting for a battery to die completely before replacement. I would be considering that too with your mileage if you still have the original battery. 

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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

My battery died as well. It started the car fine and dandy then couple days later it died and would not start. No indication on the dash as there was any problem either.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

The replacement is a 850 CCA unit from GM rather than the 730 we all have OE. The OE battery in my case was really a weak point in the car. It is driving much better with a new 850 CCA Battery. Clearly the car needs quite a bit of Juice for all the electronics and sensors it has.


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## Barefeet (Jan 1, 2014)

jakenkaiser said:


> i have a 2014 CTD with a good battery. 101k miles at this time, bought with 40k, issue has been present ever since purchase. when taking off after coming to a stop, sometimes my car takes a few seconds, then SLAMS back into gear. i have had it in and out of 3 different dealerships i dont even know how many times trying to figure out the cause, they all keep telling me they dont know whats causing it, or "thats the nature of the beast" i refuse to accept thats the way the car is supposed to be. sometimes if im on a hill at a red light in traffic, ill take my foot off the brake and the car will just drift backwards for a few seconds until finally slamming back into gear, sometimes chirping the tires. it is dangerous, because the person behind me probably sees my brake lights go off, and thinks im about to accelerate, but then my car just starts floating backwards towards them as they accelerate towards me.
> 
> 
> anyways, ive noticed this seems to happen more when the voltage is lower (ive heard these cars will lower voltage at times for fuel economy). my general idea was that maybe when the voltage is around 12-13v, rather than 14v+, the trans has trouble engaging back into gear because its not at the prescribed voltage.
> ...


My car used to do this frequently after driving 15 to 20 miles if I would stop at a light and then step on the accelerator it would delay and then slam into gear like I had been rear ended. I posted about this some time ago. One of the suggestions was to check the brake position sensor. If the sensor is not working correctly the transmission might stay in neutral as if the brakes are still engaged. It would be interesting to see if the brake lights stay on when this happens. My car has been much better lately, it only does this after about a hundred miles of expressway driving.


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## jakenkaiser (May 17, 2017)

Ok so i recently did the dpf egr scr delete and tuned with fleece performance. i have not had a single issue with my trans doing the 'delay/slam into gear' thing. i have 1500 miles since the mod, and like i said, trans is shifting perfectly now. 

mind=blown


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## cruze-zeeke (Nov 1, 2013)

Hi guys so I'm currently having issue with by car battery die if I let the car sit for more than 24 hours. I took the car battery out and take it to Advance Auto to check and see if the battery is completely dead or not before I purchase a new one, they test it and said that the battery is still good and just need to be recharge for 4hours.

My questions is can I get the dealer to replace it for free?


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

cruze-zeeke said:


> Hi guys so I'm currently having issue with by car battery die if I let the car sit for more than 24 hours. I took the car battery out and take it to Advance Auto to check and see if the battery is completely dead or not before I purchase a new one, they test it and said that the battery is still good and just need to be recharge for 4hours.
> 
> My questions is can I get the dealer to replace it for free?


It's unlikely they will replace for free, especially since they will also test it and charge it just like the parts store. If it's the original battery it's probably in need of replacement, many did not even last as long as yours. 

Amazon has the proper and improved Battery for $170.. pretty hard to beat that price.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006N91C2M?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd

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## cruze-zeeke (Nov 1, 2013)

I just bought a brand new battery and put it in and the car won't start. any other possible solutions? is it very hard to change the negative cable myself?


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

Is the engine turning over? What the temp? Any fuel related issues? Good luck


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## cruze-zeeke (Nov 1, 2013)

Manage to get it to work after replacing the battery, had to open the Air Filter up and spray into the Hose a few time with starter fluid to get the engine to ignite. I'll keep you guys up to date if it act up again.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

cruze-zeeke said:


> Manage to get it to work after replacing the battery, had to open the Air Filter up and spray into the Hose a few time with starter fluid to get the engine to ignite. I'll keep you guys up to date if it act up again.


What Engine? Pretty sure you should not be using starter fluid for a diesel...

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

From the Owner's Manual:

Warning:

Do not use gasoline or starting aids, such as ether, in the air intake. They could damage the engine, which may not be covered by the vehicle warranty. They could also cause a fire, which could cause serious personal injury.



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## cruze-zeeke (Nov 1, 2013)

I just add Power Plus Fuel Treatment and it start fine now. I only use the starter fluid as an emergency last resort kind of deal.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

cruze-zeeke said:


> I just add Power Plus Fuel Treatment and it start fine now. I only use the starter fluid as an emergency last resort kind of deal.


Starting fluid in an engine with glow plugs is a really, really bad idea. I’d get the source problem taken care of before you do that much more.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> This debate about battery size is a real yawner. I have an electrical engineering degree and I do not fret over battery size, if you have issues like the op did, just replace battery and drive the car. I find this sort of discussion useless.


I missed some of it, but I hope people don't read this and think it's OK to put a smaller battery in. Every single component on a car is accounted for and every penny GM can save, they will. If they put a battery with specs XYZ into these cars it was done for a good reason.

Regardless of someone's education, GM knows more about these cars than any of us.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

BDCCruze said:


> I missed some of it, but I hope people don't read this and think it's OK to put a smaller battery in. Every single component on a car is accounted for and every penny GM can save, they will. If they put a battery with specs XYZ into these cars it was done for a good reason.
> 
> Regardless of someone's education, GM knows more about these cars than any of us.


This is true, and it's also true that economics will dictate that on some things they will do the minimum needed to save costs. If it's good enough to get through the warranty period it's good enough, provided it's not a safety issue. All OEMs do this because it's competitive on price, that said the VW way is off the charts horrible.. and it wasn't just the emissions cheat. The fuel pump they used was not good, but good enough to clear the warranty period in most cases.. then fail with $5000 or more in repairs needed. In the case of the Gen 1 Cruze Diesel Battery the window sticker said 800cca battery.. actual was 730cca.. many died an early death.. something wasn't right.. the Delco replacement battery was 850cca.. mistakes do get made.. and we can't dismiss that possibility.

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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> I missed some of it, but I hope people don't read this and think it's OK to put a smaller battery in. Every single component on a car is accounted for and every penny GM can save, they will. If they put a battery with specs XYZ into these cars it was done for a good reason.
> 
> Regardless of someone's education, GM knows more about these cars than any of us.


That’s NOT what I said. I will probably put a GM Oem battery back in, but thinking 850 cold cranking amps is going to be way better than 800 or whatever the number is my point. Folks debate stuff they don’t know sh:t about and it drives me nuts. I just don’t sit around worrying about my battery and thinking there should be a recall on the battery. I am on original battery and working fine at 54k. I put a battery in at least the original cold cranking amps battery. It’s really not complicated as many on the forum make it. That’s my point.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> That’s NOT what I said. I will probably put a GM Oem battery back in, but thinking 850 cold cranking amps is going to be way better than 800 or whatever the number is my point. Folks debate stuff they don’t know sh:t about and it drives me nuts. I just don’t sit around worrying about my battery and thinking there should be a recall on the battery. I am on original battery and working fine at 54k. I put a battery in at least the original cold cranking amps battery. It’s really not complicated as many on the forum make it. That’s my point.


I would agree that when replacing the battery simply replace it like for like. It really is that simple and requires no more than 5 seconds of thought.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> The fuel pump they used was not good


nothin wrong with the pump

it did just fine in canada, the fuel was the issue


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

boraz said:


> nothin wrong with the pump
> 
> it did just fine in canada, the fuel was the issue


As a mechanical engineer that looked in great detail on the issues with the pump I can't say that the pump was not at least part of the issue. It's true ULSD requires lubricity additives, and that it can be inconsistent at the distribution level, and it's been worse in the US... However there have been failures outside the US. The simple fact it's a single piston that cycles 2 times per revolution.. when the Cruze has a 3 piston pump with each piston only once per revolution.. and that the VW pump uses a cam roller which requires extreme pressure at the contact point, thus very sensitive to lubricity in the fuel, when the Cruze pump has a crank shaft.. much less sensitive and durable. The cam roller single piston is way cheaper to make. I've been an aerospace manufacturing engineer. The cost of the Cruze pump is TWICE that of the VW pump. The pump is a weak and cheap design at best. So much a guy in Canada (2micron) makes a kit to convert VW cars to the better pump. I wrote extensively on the in the epic TDI Club forum threads. Even die hard VW fanatics admit the pump is weak at best. 

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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

I should note that the emmisions cheat was to save $330 per car. That came out in the investigation. We should not be surprised they would go with a $600 cheaper HPFP. Look at the findings of the NHTSA report. The only reason they didn't force a recall was they could not find an accident tied to a failure, but they did show VW overstated mis fuel failures by a factor of 10. They also showed many failures with proper fuel per specifications. My 2012 has metallic in the filter at 45k. VW said that was normal and OK, no, it most certainly is not OK and not normal. They had the gual to charge a $50 diagnostic fee to tell me that. I doubt I'll ever buy another VW.. 

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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

im not a rocket scientist, but if the pump did not fail at the same rate in canada as it did in the us, its not on the pump.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

boraz said:


> im not a rocket scientist, but if the pump did not fail at the same rate in canada as it did in the us, its not on the pump.


Well, it seems the investigation found that the pump was at least part of the issue.. and the TDI club people mostly agree.. here is one of many epic threads on topic. 

NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation - TDIClub Forums

Here is the full NHTSA report: 

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM475595/INCR-EA11003-61863.pdf

Quotes from the report: 
"The earliest design level pumps (RP0) had the highestpercentage of drivetrain failures (66%) and the lowest percentage of functional pumps (30%)."
"The results for the vehicles Volkswagen classified as misfuelswere significantly different. The results also indicate that many of the vehicles Volkswagenclassified as misfuels did not show evidence of gasoline in the test data."

You are entitled to your opinion, but the facts do suggest design problems, and even VW have several design revisions (you only revise a design that has flaws), and later added a stupid mis-fuel guard so they could make the claim all the problems were due to stupid customers putting in gasoline, and not the very weak pump design. The investigation showed many failures that had no mis-fuel problems (no gasoline in the tank, and that VW overstated mis-fuels by a factor of TEN). 

In contrast, the CP3 HPFP and similar 3 piston, crankshaft pumps (like the CP1 in Gen 1 Cruze, and similar in the Gen 2) are documented to be able to survive even the occasional mis-fuel and they don't catastrophically fail, in fact I found out the used Gen 1 Cruze I bought had a prior mis-fuel at the selling dealership, yet went well over 12K miles for me after that with no issues of any kind (and is still perfectly fine, but I traded that car), where VW even admits that ONE misfuel can wipe out their piece of crap pump. Notice GM doesn't require the idiotic VW mis-fuel guard on the filler neck (VW requires it and won't repair your pump under warranty if that junk is not on the car).. that is because they don't use that crappy pump.. I can assure you the engineers know, but the selection by VW was driven by economics, and they knew most pumps would last long enough to clear the warranty, but when many failed early, they extended the pump warranty to 120K and 10 years (knowing with the data they had the most pumps would go just beyond that point! - That is not coincidence). We are talking about the company that had a culture to intentionally program a car's computer to detect emissions testing and switch modes, vs. the cheat mode.. and that was done to save only $330 per car, the crappy HPFP saved $600.

Believe what you want, but don't deceive others with your certainty, devoid of actual analysis and facts. When I say the fuel pump is crappy, I do so after hours of looking at the data, and having had a car with a pump on it's way to failure, even with the proper fuel being used continuously. As a Mechanical Engineer doing repairs on failed part as my day job, I'm pretty good at knowing a crappy design when I see one, as I see them often. Having a masters in Business as well, I know well the financial concerns the companies use to determine the cost benefit/risk when they make purchase decisions, and they go with just good enough, and often not much more, precisely due to financial motivations. The VW engineers caved to management pressure based on cost for the emissions cheat.. so it's clear they also accepted a weaker, yet cheaper pump also for the same reasons, and for double the cost savings. 

Considering that the fuel is clearly part of this (see Table 10 of the report, 6.2% of stations had out of spec lubricity, only 2.8% in the random sample from car fuel tanks), but so too is the climate. Lubricity of the fuel is variable with temperature (lower being better).. perhaps a big part of less failures in Canada is more than just better fuel quality, climate may well also be a factor (last I checked it's pretty cold there!), but you still had some pumps fail there too (2Micron who makes the conversion kit is in Canada), this because it IS a weak design.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

MRO1791 said:


> It's unlikely they will replace for free, especially since they will also test it and charge it just like the parts store. If it's the original battery it's probably in need of replacement, many did not even last as long as yours.
> 
> Amazon has the proper and improved Battery for $170.. pretty hard to beat that price.
> 
> ...


The picture only says 800cca and 400 LTA. People in the help said the picture is accurate. Searcing the part number 88864542, some sites say it's 800cca and others say it's 850 cca -for the same part number.

Doing battery lookup, it's ranging from 730cca to 800 or 850 cca battery, so the GM spec may still be officially 730.

Anyways, my 14 also does the fan speed drop and lights dimming thing once in a while or while turning. The only time I've seen the steering warning (like the negative battery cable recall looks for) is when I started it once when it was -20. It's never displayed other than that time. Mine is the 730cca 365 lta battery.

I also read on another website someone said they called "customer care" about having the undersized battery and that GM replaced it for free. But this was in 2014 when the car was still under new warranty. I take it that wouldn't apply to us now?

I saw someone else in this thread mention electric heater assist. I read something like that before I bought mine but I don't know what that means. Is it for cabin HVAC? Mine blows cold until the engine warms up (which takes a while). Even when set to hottest setting it still blows cold. I read through the manual and couldn't find anything about an electric heat assist. I believe @*Tomko* mentioned it before.

And for those that care, you can buy the ACDelco battery for $150 on Rock Auto. This shipping for me was $11. Rock Auto says it's 850 cca but the picture is 800 cca 400 lta just like the amazon link. Not sure what the issue is. http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8878468&cc=3300427&jsn=428&jsn=428


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

BDCCruze said:


> The picture only says 800cca and 400 LTA. People in the help said the picture is accurate. Searcing the part number 88864542, some sites say it's 800cca and others say it's 850 cca -for the same part number...


I'm pretty sure mine is 850 CCA, and mentioned before, and it WAS in the Amazon picture when I bought it, but not now. If I can remember I'll take a picture and post it later. I have a spare now since I kept it with the trade-in and put the best original battery back in the car. 

Since Delco only brands the battery, it is possible they get different specifications from different suppliers, and the new ones are 800 from a different supplier. In any case it's better than the original 730cca. The window sticker had 800cca.. perhaps they switched suppliers between the window sticker update and the install at the factory.. we might never know.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

BDCCruze said:


> The picture only says 800cca and 400 LTA. People in the help said the picture is accurate. Searcing the part number 88864542, some sites say it's 800cca and others say it's 850 cca -for the same part number.
> 
> Doing battery lookup, it's ranging from 730cca to 800 or 850 cca battery, so the GM spec may still be officially 730.
> 
> ...


Verified, mine were 850cca 425 lta. Picture attached.









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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

BDCCruze said:


> I saw someone else in this thread mention electric heater assist. I read something like that before I bought mine but I don't know what that means. Is it for cabin HVAC? Mine blows cold until the engine warms up (which takes a while). Even when set to hottest setting it still blows cold. I read through the manual and couldn't find anything about an electric heat assist. I believe @*Tomko* mentioned it before.



If if you turn the heat all the way to hot and the outside temp is cold enough the electric heater will kick on. It’s not instant, but it definitely warms things up quicker than waiting on the engine to do it.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I still can't decide if I have this issue or not.

My car sits outside. This last winter I had two very cold nights (like -20F) where the next morning the car started hard and had like 2 or 3 "service system" type messages on the DIC when I started it, but they were just on the DIC and went out when the car started.

Fast forward to this morning, I _normally_ either start with remote starter or turn the key to let the glow plugs and fuel pump run a second, then turn it over and it fires right up. This morning however, after it rained last night, I just got in and turned it over. Took several cranks to start and finally started but there was a 'Service stabilitrak' message on the DIC and the stabilitrak light was on. I pulled out of the drive way and it went out.

14 CTD 80k miles.

*edit*

Battery is showing 12.25v with the car off using a a multimeter.


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