# Long Trip Observations



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

That’s a very nice write up? What kind of fuel economy did you get? You have a sedan or hatch?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> That’s a very nice write up? What kind of fuel economy did you get? You have a sedan or hatch?


Sedan.

From Illinois to SC was 56.9 mpg, SC to FL was 51.7 mpg. FL to GA was 51.4 mpg and then 54.5 for the final tank when I arrived home.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Shifting to 5th should get you decent engine braking, the higher compression of the diesel is sufficient to do the job.. now my truck has an exhaust brake which is just a function of the VGT turbo, that is super nice, savings on brake pads for sure! It might be possible to do similar on this engine, in fact I recall a post where someone did for a Gen 1 TD. 

For about $8 you can get DEF at any Walmart. 2.5gal jug is well suited for the 3.8 gallon tank in the Gen 2. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

With the filler in the fuel door, that just begs for a stop at a fuel station with a DEF nozzle. Doesn't get any more convenient than that.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Taxman said:


> With the filler in the fuel door, that just begs for a stop at a fuel station with a DEF nozzle. Doesn't get any more convenient than that.


And with the tiny tank.. probably about 15 seconds to fill!

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Taxman said:


> With the filler in the fuel door, that just begs for a stop at a fuel station with a DEF nozzle. Doesn't get any more convenient than that.


I try to buy my diesel fuel from locations that feature a biodiesel blend. I was alternating with buying from a local FS station with biodiesel, and then from HyVee (grocery store) where my food purchases can get me discounted fuel. The discounted fuel from the grocery is straight petrodiesel so I wanted to use biodiesel blends to keep things cleaned out (and be partially renewable fuel). Neither of these locations have a bulk DEF nozzle at the pump.

There is a truck stop on the most inconvenient, opposite side of town where they sell biodiesel and have a bulk DEF nozzle... but their fuel is at least 15¢ a gallon more expensive (truck driver "tax").

Now that Casey's is switching to biodiesel fuel blends at all their locations I can use my HyVee fuel saver points at any of those locations... but still no bulk DEF dispenser.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Biodiesel's reluctance to evaporate can cause problems when the computer is flooding the engine with fuel on the exhaust stroke to heat up the DPF for regeneration. I wouldn't want to run very much bio in a DPF equipped car. I think GM allows up to B20.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Just an FYI. The def gauge is really only an estimate. The sending unit in the def tank only has 3 level sensors. Judging from the schematic it's 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4. Anything other than those 3 readings is a best guess by the ECM.

I went 3000 miles in my car and for some reason my DEF gauge counted down from 100% when new to ~50% when I filled it at 3000 miles while doing other work.

It took almost all of 2.5 gallons. This tells me the gauge is not very accurate.

Now after my other mods *long story* my DEF gauge only reads OK! I anticipate it'll register in the 30% range like almost everyone elses seems to do.

Outstanding economy on your trip btw and yes I agree 100% engine braking is not very good in these cars. *A9 here.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

firehawk618 said:


> Just an FYI. The def gauge is really only an estimate. The sending unit in the def tank only has 3 level sensors. Judging from the schematic it's 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4. Anything other than those 3 readings is a best guess by the ECM.
> 
> I went 3000 miles in my car and for some reason my DEF gauge counted down from 100% when new to ~50% when I filled it at 3000 miles while doing other work.
> 
> ...


I think my '18 A9 has regenerative braking that belongs in a Bolt!


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

firehawk618 said:


> Outstanding economy on your trip


Cruise control was set at 80 mph for virtually the entire trip and I was in the hammer lane 90% of the time.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Taxman said:


> Biodiesel's reluctance to evaporate can cause problems when the computer is flooding the engine with fuel on the exhaust stroke to heat up the DPF for regeneration. I wouldn't want to run very much bio in a DPF equipped car. I think GM allows up to B20.


None of the fuel sources I'm buying from go above B20 as is allowed by the warranty. 

I suspect every place selling biodiesel is pumping B11 in summer months because Illinois has a motor fuel sales tax credit (through the end of 2018) that gives a partial exemption for some biodiesel blends but a total motor fuel sales tax exemption for anything above 10%. This created the incentive so that lots of places offer B11 (I guess they measure with increments of full percentages) to get that tax exemption. The retailer gets to pocket some more money and they can offer competitive fuel prices if they want to split the exemption with customers.

In winter my wager is they are pumping B5 due to gelling issues. It's rare to have gelling problems here so they must be selling some quality winter diesel fuel with a good anti-gel additive package. In my lifetime I've seen overnight low temperatures down to -25F and everyone I know with a diesel pickup has never had a fuel gelling issue.

The labeling of fuel pumps is all over the place. The FS station states they sell biodiesel on their website but the pumps have nothing labeled. When asking inside they tell me it's blended when it's loaded into the delivery tanker and is "probably" B11. For bulk fuel delivery (farmers running equipment during spring, summer, and fall) they sell B20. The inconvenient & expensive truck stop has the standard label that states anywhere from B5 (winter) to B20 (summer) blend. Casey's stations are starting to convert so one station I came across had two stickers: 1) a sticker that said "bio-free" and; 2) a newer sticker that covered the standard B5-20 blend. They're in the process of converting so I think someone put the new sticker up and forgot to remove the old sticker. At the time I was stopping at that Casey's there was a fuel truck driver I chatted up and he confirmed that all stations are converting to a biodiesel blend, and it was "probably" 20% in the tanks because it was the start of summer.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

When a local station (now closed) sold Bio 15 years ago they sold B0, B20 and B100.

Now that everything made in the last 10 years has a DPF, it's possible that nobody sells anything over B20 anymore. I can just imagine the complaints if they sold B50 or B80 and it messed up somebody's $70,000 pickup truck.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

1. Yep. You'll stop for the humans long before the car needs anything. Fuel economy is awesome.

2. Yep. I'm surprised all the time at what I can do uphill in 6th gear.

3. Agreed. And, no, 5th gear doesn't do jack on a good downhill grade. I use 4th routinely to hold it back.

4. Even in long sleeves and khakis on my commute, I rarely run the fan above 2 or 3 clicks, especially after the initial cooldown after the car's been sitting all day. I do the same thing with the temp dial -- raise it a click or two to beat the humidity. 

5. I don't think it's too bad on DEF, but I've always filled at a truck stop and it's just not that big of a hassle. I think I'd get tired of it if I was fiddling with jugs of DEF. I'm filling about every other month and getting between 5500 and 6500 miles on a full tank.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Taxman said:


> Now that everything made in the last 10 years has a DPF, it's possible that nobody sells anything over B20 anymore. I can just imagine the complaints if they sold B50 or B80 and it messed up somebody's $70,000 pickup truck.


1. Proper fueling is the responsibility of the owner. If you own a $70,000 diesel pickup and fill the fuel tank with unleaded, that's not the problem of the fuel station owner. The same goes for biodiesel fuel blends above what the manufacturer allows: Fill up with something not covered under warranty and that's a YOU problem.

2. Biodiesel compatibility with DPFs has to do with the supplemental fuel injection method. Some manufacturers use the fuel injectors to simply add fuel during the exhaust stroke. That's an issue where high concentrations of biodiesel can wash down on cylinder walls and dilute engine oil. Cummins did this and I think they've had trouble with it even using petrodiesel. The other option is to have a secondary injector in the exhaust stream (after the catalytic converter, before the DPF) that adds fuel directly to the DPF. This is ideal because it can't dilute engine oil the same way as using the standard fuel injectors in the cylinders.

When possible, I'll be removing the DPF and replacing with a straightpipe. Hopefully OZ Tuner will soon be offering a straightpipe for the Gen2 Cruze models. Once I do that I would love to find a local B99 or B100 fuel source for summer fuel.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> 1. Proper fueling is the responsibility of the owner. If you own a $70,000 diesel pickup and fill the fuel tank with unleaded, *that's not the problem of the fuel station owner. *


It is if every yokel in town is talking about how you ruined Bubba's new truck and refused to pay for it. Word of mouth like that can be costly. That's why I said complaints, not liability.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Taxman said:


> It is if every yokel in town is talking about how you ruined Bubba's new truck and refused to pay for it. Word of mouth like that can be costly. That's why I said complaints, not liability.


It depends on if every yokel in town knows Bubba is a complete farking moron.


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