# Ridiculous situation at a Tire Barn in Camby, Indiana today



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

:feedback:*I had the most bizarre, frustrating, and upsetting encounter today with Tire Barn just down the street from where I live in Camby, Indiana.* I think the main guy at their desk, *Brent*, is a moron and has no customer service skills or tactful behavior of any kind. 







As you can see from the picture (click to enlarge), my front passenger rim is slightly bent from going over a massive pothole a few weeks ago. Fortunately, the tire still holds air and it doesn't pull in one direction or anything like that, but I know I need to put a replacement rim on there. I've been keeping my eye out for a good bargain on one, because the 18" LTZ rim is not cheap. Anyway, I took my car in today for an alignment, tire rotate, and balance, as well as a full deflate and reflate on the N[SUB]2[/SUB] in my tires. (A dealership soiled my tire's N[SUB]2[/SUB] about 10 days ago when they topped off my tires, which didn't need topping off, with just regular air.) I got to Tire Barn, spoke with the guy at the desk (Brent) and told him what needed to be done and all that, and had my girlfriend take me back home in her car. Brent said it would be done in about an hour, which I thought was rather quick for a tire rotation, balance, alignment, and N[SUB]2[/SUB] refill, but I know it always takes longer than they say so I knew it didn't really mean much. My own guess at how long it was gonna take was two hours, based on the business when I got there, what I needed done, and the time of day. I left Tire Barn at 12:45.

I get a call at 5:15, and it's Brent. He said my car is ready, but that they didn't do any work on it. Puzzled, I asked him what he meant. He asked me if I was aware of my "destroyed" front passenger rim; I answered that I was aware it was slightly bent with a crack in the finish, but was not destroyed by any means, still holds the N[SUB]2[/SUB] inside, etc, yes I know about that rim. He said that it was 'totally destroyed and shouldn't even be on the road', and they don't work on broken wheels. 

I just thought of the irony of Tire Barn saying they don't work on broken wheels. What? lol.

At this point, I was more than a little confused. I don't know everything about cars, like how they actually do the alignment, so I'm not positive on how crucial it is to have a rim with 100% integrity to align a wheel/axle. But I know what rotating and balancing is, because they're exactly what they sound like - for a rotation, the back wheels are put on the front and switched from right to left; the front wheels are put on the back and switched from right to left. And balancing nowadays is putting the wheel in the machine that stops and points a laser at exactly where the operator is to put the balancing weights. So, what I'm confused about is why there wasn't ANY work done on the car whatsoever, when just ONE of its tires is broken, according to Brent. He kept saying that they don't work on broken wheels/tires when I asked why he couldn't at least have rotated and balanced the back tires (and aligned them if possible?) and done the N[SUB]2[/SUB] exchange, or why he couldn't have called me at, like, 2:45 and notified me of the destroyed wheel and what he wants me to have them do, or why he couldn't have at least done what a good mechanic SHOULD have done and at least move the 'destroyed' rim to the back so that if it does fail, it's not on a tire as crucial as one of the fronts. That would also achieve the effect of a rotation at least, and he could have balanced the other three wheels, or SOMETHING. 

He kept telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about, or know anything about cars. He told me to get a second opinion and that he guarantees any other shop will refuse to perform the services I requested as well. When I asked why he couldn't have done the things previously mentioned that seem totally reasonable to me, he didn't have an answer that made any sense. Moreover, as the customer service guy, he should have bloody CALLED ME sooner than 4.5 hours later at the close of business to see what I wanted to do, advise me of the problem, and try to get me to pay them for some kind of service, right? I left there without paying a thing, which seems totally opposite to Tire Barn's goal to sell service, lol. 

Am I being totally unrealistic here and asking for too much or just being ignorant about alignments/rotations/balances, and the issue with having a minor defect on one wheel preventing any work on the ENTIRE car? I don't like to be cynical, but I think what happened is they knew I was a $100 job, and they probably got busy with more expensive tickets, ran out of time to do my car the way they should have, and decided to blame their inaction on one wheel that's slightly bent. Give me a break. 

Is it imperative that each rim be at 100% integrity before an alignment/rotation/balance can be done? Is the damage pictured severe enough to warrant not doing ANY work on the car, even if it's work that might make it safer, like moving the rim that is likely to fail to the rear so the incident is less severe? Losing a front tire is far more dangerous than a rear in any car, and front-wheel drive cars in particular. 

I'm just totally pissed off and baffled by the whole incident. I have since bought the replacement rim for the bargain price of $275 (compared to $445 from Chevrolet, so I guess that's pretty good.. I know it is not a cheap rim but $445 seems a bit much for circular metal). I'm sure as **** never going to that Tire Barn again, which is a shame because I just moved here and I was looking forward to having a tire shop literally right around the corner. Anyway, that's what happened. I'm kind of curious about the comments this'll get, hehe.


----------



## Zenturi (Jan 25, 2014)

You're talking to an employee of a franchise, that does not want to take on risk which cannot be warrantied off to their insurer or parent corp.

A smaller independent shop may have shrugged things off and changed the wheel.


----------



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

First, don't waste your money on Nitrogen. It expands and contracts at the same rate as regular air and provides no benefit to passenger cars. Second, the bent rim could have been an issue with regards to the Tire Barn's liability insurance policy. However, I do agree with you that you should have been notified of this issue during the initial walk around to figure out what needed to be done.


----------



## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

The shop is at a disadvantage.
Any wheel service that doesn't involve replacing the damaged wheel puts them in a liability risk situation.
So, in this case, the simple act of removing/balancing, and then re-installing the damaged wheel essentially puts them in the position of giving the rim a stamp of approval for further use.
The OP is experiencing the results of silly lawsuits that cost tire service shop insurance companies a fortune.
So, in the case, the insurer has likely stipulated that no service work be performed on a vehicle with a visually damaged wheel.
If they do perform a service, and the wheel fails in any way, the shop likely would have no coverage available for their defense.
In the shop and insurers defence, there is no way anyone can determine if the rim is fractured further into the casting without x-ray because a aluminum wheel can't be magnafluxed for damage (non ferrous).
So, to cover all bases, and frankly, to protect the customer from himself, they and most other service facilities are following these guidlines.

Ideally, to save you aggravation, the individual that took the car in should have denied any service to you the moment the rim was noted.
It would have given the shop a chance to explain their reason and would not have wasted your day......water under the bridge now.

This particular chain is not in the Chicago area so, until your post, I never heard of them, but I wouldn't yet throw them under the bus.
Sounds more like a newbee may not have yet known the program when you dropped the car off.

For future reference, a alignment nowadays uses a fixture mounted to each rim to perform the alignment.....your damaged rim further precludes that service......could create inaccurate readings.

Good luck!
Stay outa those holes,

Rob


----------



## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Hay rob how do you stay out of the Holes when you can't see them coming up because of the cars and trucks in front of you? 
There is an answer ......


----------



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Watch the cars in front of you. If they hit a hole you'll see it in the way the car moves.


----------



## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I had a set of 4 after market alloy rims on a previous car and one of the rims developed a hole in it. I thought I was up for 4 new rims as they were no longer being made. My local tyre dealer had the wheel repaired at a cost of $170.00, which was better than $2000.00 for a matched new set. It is always good to understand where the dealer is coming from before you dump him.


----------



## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Agreed that you should have been notified a lot sooner, because regardless of the job, wasting a customer's time is never good.

That said, I side with Tire Barn on everything else. From the picture, that wheel is unsafe to drive on and I certainly wouldn't.

This 18" wheel is made of cast aluminum alloy. The wheel supplier from Germany made the wheel by pouring hot metal into a mold, removing it once it has cooled. It's cheap to produce, and durable enough. But as you had happen, it's possible to have it break. Think of a delicious chocolate chip cookie. Pick up that cookie, and drop it on the edge onto the table/plate. If it doesn't break apart, it probably cracks a little and you can see the crack. You may be able to pick it up and carry it around, but chances are, if you even set down flat on the plate without taking extreme care, it's probable that the cookie will break apart that second time.

Think of your wheel in the same way. The cast metal contains air pockets since it isn't compressed, so the bond per square inch isn't as solid as you may think. While the tire may hold air right now, since the tire bead does seat a little farther inside the wheel But even slight bumps could cause it to break apart in an instant,enough to cause the tire to blow. I'm not saying the whole wheel will split in half, but that section could certainly break off and the damage could be farther in than you think. The outer bead seat area is one of the strongest areas on the wheel, and you've got a crack right through it. It's likely that the damage spread farther than you can see with the tire on and with it on the car.

The difference with forged aluminum alloy is that the aluminum is poured into a large, simple mold, and then a large press compresses the metal to get rid of those air pockets. Sometimes the wheels are fully machined from there but other times, the wheels are cast and forged into a basic wheel design. Either way, a much stronger wheel results. This is why I run forged wheels in the winter. They're not invincible to damage, but they can withstand more. ****, two of mine were involved in a serious front impact crash that put a dent in each of the wheels in the back, but it didn't damage them and they're perfectly usable.

So, I suggest getting the spare out and don't drive the car much until you can get another wheel. Hopefully they don't find a problem with the tire too, but it's possible the tire won't last too much longer after taking such a hit. The internal steel belts in the tire may have been broken from it.

As Robby said, quality, reputable alignments these days laser align the car with wheels/tires on. If you were to watch a tire store do their basic alignment, they have a strobe laser attachment that clamps onto all the tires, and they adjust what they can until the laser lines line up.


----------



## RWise (Sep 23, 2013)

You should put something else in place of the damaged wheel until you have the funds to replace the wheel. That's very dangerous to the driver and anybody around it. And if you put it in the trunk deflate it first. It could rupture at any time including while your deflating it. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

*Nitrogen expansion and contraction rates, compared to air mixture*



obermd said:


> First, don't waste your money on Nitrogen. It expands and contracts at the same rate as regular air and provides no benefit to passenger cars. Second, the bent rim could have been an issue with regards to the Tire Barn's liability insurance policy. However, I do agree with you that you should have been notified of this issue during the initial walk around to figure out what needed to be done.


I agree with what you said, except about the nitrogen being a waste of money. I remember some of the stuff like the Ideal Gas Law, aka PV=nRT, where P is pressure, V is volume, n is number of mols of gas, R is the Universal Gas Constant, and T is the absolute temperature *IN KELVIN*) that addresses subjects of this matter. I don't know how to apply the numbers to that equation since it's been so long, but I have a hard time believing that an inert gas like nitrogen expands and contracts at exactly the same rate as air. This is for two reasons: *(1)* Nitrogen _is_ an ideal gas, whereas "air" is not; and *(2)* air contains moisture, as well as other non-ideal and non-inert gases, and these variables must have an impact on the expansion and contraction of the respective gases inside their containers when temperature changes.

Anyone out there know how to apply the Ideal Gas Law to this example to get some mathematical verification? I'd be interested to know what the figures are. To help, I found a site that calculated the volume of my tire, and it takes exactly 30L of cold N[SUB]2[/SUB] to get it up to 35 PSI on the P225/45R18W19 Michelin tire that comes with the Cruze's LTZ trim level. During long drives or heavy/fast driving, the tire pressure goes up 1 or 2 PSI at the most. I recall that before I used N[SUB]2[/SUB] to fill my tires, the pressure would fluctuate by 1-3 PSI as the air heated up more and more inside the tire. The opposite is also true - my tires are at about 33-34 PSI occasionally if it is below freezing outside with the N[SUB]2[/SUB], and got as low as 30 PSI with just air. I know the electronic tire pressure monitoring systems aren't 100% accurate on their readings of the PSI, but it is a number that the car updates throughout the ride as it gathers data for the multi-information display. I also look at consistency as an indication of accuracy, and my Cruze's tire pressure system has always been consistent so far. Knock on wood.

Thanks for any math experts who are able to give some insight into the Ideal Gas Law and how the calculations work.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks for the helpful replies, fellow Cruzers. 

*I ordered the new rim yesterday*; it should be here Wednesday, and the I'm going to have it replaced first thing on Thursday morning. I know I'm borrowing time in terms of riding on the bent rim, but I'm not putting my spare on there and going 45 mph. I'm considering buying a fifth full-sized rim and put a new tire on it to keep as a spare in my garage for situations just like this. Given Murphy's law though, if I do that, I'll never have a need for it.. heh. I think I'll maybe try going to a junkyard to see if I can find it for cheap. Probably a long shot.


----------



## 30 Ounce (Nov 18, 2012)

You NEEDED to get a new rim.

Heres a nitrogen vs air tire test by Fifth Gear. Very interesting.
Fifth Gear on Nitrogen Tires - YouTube


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

30 Ounce said:


> You NEEDED to get a new rim.



I don't know how many different ways I can acknowledge that I knew I needed to replace the rim. I knew it when I started a thread a week or so ago that asked where to find a replacement OEM rim for less than the $445 Chevrolet charges, ok? sheesh.

The point of my original post was that the experience at Tire Barn frustrated the daylights out of me. It took 4[SUP]1[/SUP]/[SUB]2[/SUB] hours to get a call just to notify me they wouldn't be doing any work on the car, when the desk idiot said it would probably take about an hour. It doesn't make sense to me that one damaged rim, which has maintained the same tire pressure since the incident, deems the entire car untouchable. 

Again, I'm not a car expert by any means, but I do know what customer service is. Ignoring the absurdity of the long delay before calling me, I'm curious why it wasn't an option to at least do the nitrogen exchange on the three GOOD tires, and/or rotate/balance/align the rear axle by swapping just the right rear wheel for the left and the left rear wheel for the right, or SOMETHING to make some money at least, lol. That's where my lack of understanding comes into play - I do not understand why one damaged rim on an otherwise completely functional car should forbid them from doing any kind of work on it at all. 

I know there's policies and liability and all that ish nowadays, but come on, where is the love? Surely they can do better than avoiding the car like it's the plague. They're a tire shop for heaven's sake, and they're saying a [slightly damaged but still functional] tire's rim is in their way of doing their work. I guess it also pisses me off the long delay and the guy talking so down and insulting to me when I was just trying to understand why they couldn't do anything. One would think he'd want to be a little more accommodating to make sure I go back there when my new rim arrives and have them do the work that they weren't able to do, as well as charge me for mounting a new tire. Like **** would I go back there now though.

But yeah once again, I knew I needed to get a new rim. I got my answer for where to get the OEM rim for cheaper from the thread I created, and ordered the new rim last night for $275, so it's on its way. I'm looking forward to it, because the bent rim has been a constant concern.

Bloody potholes. It's 2014, surely by now we can lay pothole-resistant asphalt.


----------



## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

I've never jumped on the nitrogen bandwagon, and I don't lose sleep over if I mix air with nitrogen in a tire. I'd rather have my tires properly inflated than drive on a nearly flat tire to get to the tire store to get it filled. Yes, my grandma did this, because she was brainwashed to believe they couldn't be mixed. Unfortunately, this meant she drove like 20 miles on it to Costco.

Anyway, the one benefit I've heard regarding nitrogen is that, as you point out, it lacks moisture. The biggest benefit to this with newer cars is the moisture won't corrode the internals of the TPMS sensors.

An interesting thing to note, when I was getting my snow tires, I did it on one of the coldest days of the year here. I visited many backed up tire shops, and all of them were having trouble with their air lines freezing up. Makes me wonder, so if they're using nitrogen, why are they having this problem? Or is it all a big marketing ploy? Around here, I only know of Costco to use the green caps, but they probably got a deal on them as a way to market this benefit.


----------



## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

My car came with N2 inflation. About four months into ownership all four tires were down about 4 psi, but not enough to trigger the TPMS system which goes off at a 5 psi drop. I pumped the tires up to the regular pressure with the B&D Air Station in my garage and they haven't lost any air in the last 8 months. I guess that 20 % of non-N2 I put in stopped up whatever leak there was. If N2 is free, I guess I'll take it, but I would not pay for it, nor expect it to be worth what the price was.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Nothing wrong with nitrogen, only gas the FAA approves for aircraft use. For automotive, key advantage is moisture free dry air. But I have a good moisture filter on my air compressor, moisture can freeze up a Scharder valve and cause it to leak.

I would leave nitrogen as the users choice, really not an issue.

With alloy rims and kids that can hit a curb, aluminum is very malleable, and as long as no cracks, even under a powerful magnifying glass, could straighten these out. Use my own judgement as to whether they are safe or not. But also plenty of shops that do this for a fee and guarantee reliability. And even make them look like new again

Just do a google search.

Ha, for potholes, made the comment just the other day to my wife. No officer, I am not drunk, just trying to miss all the pot holes on the road for the reason of my zig-zag driving. Tis the season for pot holes.

If you can't see a pot hole ahead of you because of a vehicle in front of you, you are driving to darn close.


----------



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jim Frye said:


> My car came with N2 inflation. About four months into ownership all four tires were down about 4 psi, but not enough to trigger the TPMS system which goes off at a 5 psi drop.


When I got my new tires last fall they came with free nitrogen. Had them filled to 38PSI, temperature dropped that week to winter temps and tire PSI dropped to 32psi. Noticed yesterday with 40F weather and a warmed tire after a few hours driving my tires are running 38PSI again. Seems nitrogen PSI fluctuates just as much as air with temperature changes.


----------



## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

NickD said:


> Nothing wrong with nitrogen, only gas the FAA approves for aircraft use.


Yes, the reason aircraft use Nitrogen, however, has nothing to do with any purported magical properties that allow it to avoid expanding (or contracting) due to temperature changes, it is because it will not feed a fire, or explode itself. It is inert.


----------



## pL2014 (Dec 29, 2013)

spacedout said:


> Seems nitrogen PSI fluctuates just as much as air with temperature changes.


As a chemist, I can tell you that ANY gas will expand and contract almost identically with temperature changes. As people have pointed out, moisture is about the only thing that would change any of this as it could condense at lower temperatures and cause larger pressure and/or volume changes to the tire, as well as cause corrosion to sensors, valves. etc. 

Perhaps we should all start putting helium in our tires since it would be lighter. Gas mileage would increase by 0.00000001% probably!!!


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Yes but 0.00000001% would help, seem to be meeting more people that think this way. Especially when I tossed a piece of tissue that I used to clean my glasses with in the garbage can, was chewed out for not tossing it in the recycling bin. Heck, was just trying to help out my logger friends up north. With all this recycling, they are starving to death.


----------



## newsguy99 (May 24, 2013)

wow, thats really all i could say... The dealer, should of went to the car, with the customer, as soon as it was brought in. And, once the wheel was noticed, told of the policy from their store. 

I don't think in this case, the store did anything wrong. (except notifying you sooner)

I would not have an issue taking my car back to them for other issues. or just basic stuff.


----------



## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

unless you evacuate the tires an suck them down like a prune your wasting your money. I work in a shop where I can fill mine for free an I don`t even bother.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

oilburner said:


> unless you evacuate the tires an suck them down like a prune your wasting your money. I work in a shop where I can fill mine for free an I don`t even bother.


This is exactly what they do when you have the air in your tires replaced with nitrogen at a local tire shop with the right equipment to do it. It's all automatic, but they hook each tire up to a special machine, and the machine deflates and re-inflates each tire several times, removing the O[SUB]2[/SUB], O[SUB]3[/SUB], whatever H[SUB]2[/SUB]O vapor there may be, N[SUB]2[/SUB]O, and so on, until the nitrogen quantity is at 99.9% or whatever its specified threshold is. Not all shops can afford this machine, so not all places offer the service. It's very expensive; a shop told me once how much it costs, but I forget the number now. 

So yeah, since they _do_ evacuate the tires and suck them down like a prune, perhaps it's not as much of a waste of money now eh?


----------



## ChevyMgr (Oct 27, 2010)

mbucklein said:


> This is exactly what they do when you have the air in your tires replaced with nitrogen at a local tire shop with the right equipment to do it. It's all automatic, but they hook each tire up to a special machine, and the machine deflates and re-inflates each tire several times, removing the O[SUB]2[/SUB], O[SUB]3[/SUB], whatever H[SUB]2[/SUB]O vapor there may be, N[SUB]2[/SUB]O, and so on, until the nitrogen quantity is at 99.9% or whatever its specified threshold is. Not all shops can afford this machine, so not all places offer the service. It's very expensive; a shop told me once how much it costs, but I forget the number now.
> 
> So yeah, since they _do_ evacuate the tires and suck them down like a prune, perhaps it's not as much of a waste of money now eh?


The machines were $10,000 8 years ago, probably more now. The agents selling them told of massive profits from selling nitro. And every shop that owns one knows it is a waste of money. But they would never tell you that.

You should try the helium method mentioned earlier. You'll float like a butterfly down the road.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Was 11 bucks for a tank of nitrogen, well this was several years ago. Local welder supplier has these. Can fill a lot of tires with a tank of liquid nitrogen. You will need your own regulator.


----------



## Erastimus (Feb 9, 2012)

You are thinking too hard, dude. And you are wasting your money on nitrogen fills for the tires. There is no such thing as an ideal gas. Both nitrogen and oxygen behave "nearly like" an ideal gas. With air being 4 parts nitrogen and 1 part oxygen (with trace amounts of argon, helium, etc. thrown in for ha ha's), you have a "nearly ideal" mixture of gases in your tires if you use the free stuff (air, that is - oh wait, it might cost you a buck once in awhile to top off with air). I saw the propaganda sheet and pricing of conversion to nitrogen at my Ford dealer while waiting at the Quick Lane for an oil change. I chuckled and remembered P.T. Barnum's most famous saying. The main pitch on that propaganda sheet is that the oxygen in the air "rots" the tire from the inside out, all the while, the tire being rotted from the outside-in because of the air outside the tire. The "problem" is that the tire tread will be worn out in almost all cases before said "rot" has any big effect on the tire. The exception being the little old lady/guy who drives a 1000 miles a year and intends to keep the car forever. Just the other day it was on the news media that some billionaire had just recently put together a record setting life insurance policy of something like $250million. First thing I said to myself was "why does a billionaire need a life insurance policy?" Won't his family be left comfortable with the billion dollars he leaves behind? We need to think and be informed and do our research before spending our money. You would be better off going back to air and donating the cost of deflating your "soiled" tires and reinflating with nitrogen to the local food pantry. You will feel better, trust me. The furthest thing you have from an ideal gas in your car is the air conditioning refrigerant. If is very non-ideal. If it was nearly ideal, it wouldn't work as a refrigerant. Read up on the Carnot Cycle and Refrigerant gases. Tons of fun. Me and obermd have had our disagreements on this forum, but in this case, we are in agreement, both on the nitrogen as a waste of money and the danger of that cracked wheel.


----------



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

You know, for about $10 you can purchase a 12V car air pump and put it in your trunk. Then you can fill your tires anytime you want without any cost - the 12V outlets work without the engine running. you'll also have an air pump should you need to use the spare tire. When was the last time you checked your spare tire's pressure?


----------



## pL2014 (Dec 29, 2013)

Exactly correct. UV light and pollutants like ozone in the summer rot your tires from the outside _WAY_ faster than the ~20% oxygen will from the inside. For most, the tread wear comes even faster yet.


----------



## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

Reading about somebody filling tires with nitrogen is a great fun for me. Never heard of that kind of idiots before, never knew there was that even available somewhere for that purpose.
And the cracked rim is dangerous, should not drive with that even one inch.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Could bring up another tire dealer in town, go in there for a wheel alignment, and even though you put four brand new ball joints in your vehicle would say they were bad and your vehicle is very dangerous to drive. But fortunately for the rest of us, went out of business. 

Another kid got rotten guaranteed for life brake job, where they left the pads dragging at Midas, but she didn't read the fine print about the 95 buck service charge to honor that warranty. Another went to a tire shop for a leaking tire, was told her ball joints were loose, when what they did is to unscrew the nut three turns for the tapered bearings. Another was told his engine required a new head gasket, what they did there was to pull off a vacuum hose. Yet another was told his oil drain plug was stripped when he brought the car in. This is enough to make my point.

Common denominator here as with the OP, shops and tire places taking advantage of kids. Would never think about doing this with their dads around. Had to visit all of these shops even to go as far as small claims court to get these things settled.

Recommendation for this young man next time he visits a shop, have your dad go with you.


----------



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

NickD said:


> Recommendation for this young man next time he visits a shop, have your dad go with you.


Thats good advice, however I doubt the policy would change about working on a car with physical damage to the rim. 

Seeing this rim reminds me of when My girlfriend hit a 4x6 piece of wood that fell out of a truck in front of her. Unlike steel aluminum has no give and does not bend, it breaks. 4X6 hit dead center font of our 2004 cavalier oil pan, left a hole bigger than my fist. Would have never guessed wood could break metal.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

NickD said:


> Recommendation for this young man next time he visits a shop, have your dad go with you.


I don't really know what you mean, despite all of the examples included to prove your point. I'll be 30 in a few months, so apparently that's too young to be able to go to a tire shop myself now? Or are you saying tire shops are less inclined to rip off customers who come in with an old "dad-like" figure? Or what? If you're saying I'm too stupid to be going in there by myself and should have my dad with me because of it, I don't know what I did that gave that impression besides pose a question in a thread about something I never claimed to be an expert in.

I created this thread to get some more information about the situation - to be educated enough not to have to bring my dad along with me when I take my car in for service. I couldn't bring my dad very easily because my dad lives 1,900 miles away in California, and I have not made the right kinds of good friends yet in the area I've relocated to who could go with me - which was why I asked you if any old fuddy-duddy will do to deter the rip offs. So yeah, I'm here to learn. It's been great, because a thread I put up about 3 weeks ago helped me find the replacement OEM rim for less than the $445 that Chevrolet wanted to charge. And I figured out how to do that all by my big boy self.








The rim arrived today, and I am having it put on tomorrow morning at 10, and then having the alignment/rotation/balance done as I had originally intended. Huge relief from driving on the bent rim, because like I said in my original post, which a lot of people forgot or ignored, I knew as soon as the rim was bent that I'd have to get a replacement. 

I'll put up a new pic when it's all done and everything is all balanced and aligned. That'll be a relief.

Thanks again to the folks who offered their kind suggestions


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

> Thanks again to the folks who offered their kind suggestions


What suggestions? You came here with a gripe on a tire shop that wouldn't work on your vehicle due to a bad rim. You got a good rim and now going back to get that work done. 

Seems to me, you solved your problem all by yourself. I am sure you know about signing a contract specifying what work you want done, getting an estimate, and being told to be informed if any additional work has to be done.

Hear stuff like this all the time, paid 2,000 bucks to have my AC system repaired, and it still doesn't work, what should I do? Paid 3,000 bucks to have my AT replaced, on the AC or the cruise control doesn't work, what should I do? Or there is a dent my car that wasn't there before.

Have to settle problems like this with the shop.


----------



## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

Where did you get your replacement rim from?


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Wouldn't pitch that old rim just yet, give this a shot.


Alloy Wheel Repair Specialists | Auto Dealer Customer


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

NickD said:


> What suggestions?


What suggestions?! lol. Pretty much almost every other post besides the ones from you. Since you like to provide examples, I will respond in kind: That would be reply #2, #3, #4, #6, #7, #8, #9..... and so on. Those are suggestions, lol.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Starks8 said:


> Where did you get your replacement rim from?


I ordered it from All Factory Wheels for $275, and shipping was $28; took two days to get here. I think it was a good deal, the site was recommended by other Cruzers.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

NickD said:


> Wouldn't pitch that old rim just yet, give this a shot.
> 
> 
> Alloy Wheel Repair Specialists | Auto Dealer Customer


Yeah, I hadn't planned on throwing it away - it's a pretty fair bit of metal, I thought maybe I could sell it to one of those junk yard or metal-buying places, you know what I mean? I've ever done that before cuz I've never really had raw material like this to sell, but I was thinking I might get an ok amount for it eh? I dunno what I'll do with it once the new rim is on; the new rim arrived today and looks great


----------



## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

mbucklein said:


> I ordered it from All Factory Wheels for $275, and shipping was $28; took two days to get here. I think it was a good deal, the site was recommended by other Cruzers.



Yupp, I've def heard of them and have eyed these rims on there for awhile! How is the quality and have you had any issues with the balancing and rotating, etc? You likely could sell your old rim to them or other companies like them that fix damaged rims. Yours might be too far gone for companies like them though but you never know. Selling it to a scrap yard i guess is always a option too. Pic of the new rim on the car?


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

I had an appointment to get the new rim put on this morning at 10, but I had something already scheduled that I'd forgotten about, so I had to move it to tomorrow morning at 10. I'm *definitely* going to post pictures of the new rim once it's on, as well as pictures of the damage of the old rim as seen without the tire. Kind of looking forward to that. I'm gonna be sure to ask the mechanic tomorrow if the new rim gave him any problems with the alignment or anything I think.

The rim is solid to me and feels like it's good quality; it weighs 31 pounds.It looks exactly like the OEM rims I have on my other wheels already, and as you can see from the pictures, it looks pretty good. I've actually never seen a rim all by itself before without a tire on it and off a car or anything, so it's kind of interesting, heh.


----------



## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

That's a Hollander 5477 refinished wheel, which explains the cost savings. I'm curious to hear how it looks outside next to the original.

And I was calling around getting scrap aluminum alloy prices for work today. For that particular alloy, scrap yards were willing to pay around $0.60/pound. These wheels will be a lesser quality alloy because cast and lighter duty, but they should be somewhere around that. So, you might barely get $20 for the damaged wheel, if you're lucky.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Sunline Fan said:


> That's a Hollander 5477 refinished wheel, which explains the cost savings. I'm curious to hear how it looks outside next to the original.
> 
> And I was calling around getting scrap aluminum alloy prices for work today. For that particular alloy, scrap yards were willing to pay around $0.60/pound. These wheels will be a lesser quality alloy because cast and lighter duty, but they should be somewhere around that. So, you might barely get $20 for the damaged wheel, if you're lucky.


Is that the wheel manufacturer? Is it bad quality? It looks and feels good quality to me, but like I said before, this is the first rim I've ever actually held all on its own before. I know what cheap, thin metal would feel like though, and the weight would be off, wouldn't it? Here are some shots just as it sits in my garage right now until my appointment tomorrow. I can't tell the difference between the ones already on the car and the one I got, so it seems like a good match to me.


















click to zoom; these are 4608x3456 resolution pics.


----------



## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

mbucklein said:


> View attachment 66921
> View attachment 66929



The outward rim part of your new wheel does look like it missing some of it's finish and maybe its the light, but it also looks like there are four different indents in it?


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Starks8 said:


> The outward rim part of your new wheel does look like it missing some of it's finish and maybe its the light, but it also looks like there are four different indents in it?


I think there's some strange light refraction going on, because the rim doesn't even look round in the first picture of them side by side. Keep in mind that the rim on the car is not damaged at all; the rim on the ground is the one that will replace the other damaged rim. I'm not seeing where it's lacking part of its finish or the indents though, unless I think it is where I think you're talking about, and I think that's a lighting thing.


----------



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

New rim looks great, can't wait to hear you got it installed on your car.


----------



## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

mbucklein said:


> I think there's some strange light refraction going on, because the rim doesn't even look round in the first picture of them side by side. Keep in mind that the rim on the car is not damaged at all; the rim on the ground is the one that will replace the other damaged rim. I'm not seeing where it's lacking part of its finish or the indents though, unless I think it is where I think you're talking about, and I think that's a lighting thing.



I put the picture i was talking about in the paint program and arrowed to and highlighted the areas i was talking about that appear to be missing finish and having indents






. Click on it and then zoom to see it the best.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Starks8 said:


> I put the picture i was talking about in the paint program and arrowed to and highlighted the areas i was talking about that appear to be missing finish and having indents
> View attachment 67185
> . Click on it and then zoom to see it the best.


I zoomed in, and then got the rim out of my trunk to inspect it. The areas you pointed to are simply where there is not much of that black paint stuff. I ran my hand around the rim and there are no indentations at all, so maybe the color difference provides that illusion. 

Since there are 4 of the lighter spots on the rim's edge, I'm guessing maybe that's where the rim was held by robotic arms while the finish was sprayed on? Is the black stuff even a "finish" per se? What is it? Is that what you're talking about? To me, the "finish" is the other side, the one that shows when it's on the car. Even still, the light spots are very small, and they're on the side of the rim that faces under the car. Shouldn't be too much to worry about I shouldn't think, right?



Sent from AutoGuide.com App


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Something I researched in choosing what kind of Cruze to buy, the cost of replacement tires. The overall diameter of the LTZ tire is about the same, and with an 18" wheel, the tire sidewall is reduce putting the rim much closer to the ground. Possible cause of its damage. Then replacement tires were far more expensive with this tire.

Did you take this issue up with GM? And what about your collision coverage, damage is damage whether a wheel or a fender.

Anyway, the LTZ was out of the question for us, not available with a manual transmission, already had my fill with automatic climate control problems, and really didn't care for the wheels that came with it. One thing I don't need, is more problems.


----------



## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

mbucklein said:


> Is that the wheel manufacturer? Is it bad quality? It looks and feels good quality to me, but like I said before, this is the first rim I've ever actually held all on its own before. I know what cheap, thin metal would feel like though, and the weight would be off, wouldn't it? Here are some shots just as it sits in my garage right now until my appointment tomorrow. I can't tell the difference between the ones already on the car and the one I got, so it seems like a good match to me.
> View attachment 67073
> View attachment 67081
> View attachment 67089
> click to zoom; these are 4608x3456 resolution pics.


Hollander is a company that seems to corporately own salvage yards. They have a common numbering system for used parts, but also seem to rework parts. I believe your wheel is an original GM wheel, but it probably had scratches or something on it, so they take them and fill whatever flaws and repaint it. Structurally, the wheel should be fine and just like your original, it's just finish appearance that may differ slightly.

I'm no color expert, but it looks like the paint has a little black in it. It looks like four layer- primer, black, silver, clear, hence the hyper designation. It isn't the factory Sterling Silver paint. That's why the back is black, they didn't add the extra paint back there because no one looks back there. It isn't like that on the factory wheel. The painting process and color is hard to match for an OEM, and could be proprietary, so this is a close guess that most will probably never notice a difference despite it never being able to pass in an OEM environment.


----------



## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

mbucklein said:


> I zoomed in, and then got the rim out of my trunk to inspect it. The areas you pointed to are simply where there is not much of that black paint stuff. I ran my hand around the rim and there are no indentations at all, so maybe the color difference provides that illusion.
> 
> Since there are 4 of the lighter spots on the rim's edge, I'm guessing maybe that's where the rim was held by robotic arms while the finish was sprayed on? Is the black stuff even a "finish" per se? What is it? Is that what you're talking about? To me, the "finish" is the other side, the one that shows when it's on the car. Even still, the light spots are very small, and they're on the side of the rim that faces under the car. Shouldn't be too much to worry about I shouldn't think, right?
> 
> ...


Oh okay, got cha. That's exactly what I was referring to. Yes, i guess the lack of the black finish at those four spots is just creating the illusion of indentations. Well I'm glad to hear that there aren't any true indents, but will that lack of finish at those spots and the whole outer edge leave the door open for rust or finish problems down the road? Interested to see and hear about how it does once you get it mounted. 

I agree totally that the hyper silver front face of the rim is the true "finish" and really should be the part you care about since its the part you and others see, but I'm OCD, so that lack of black finish on the back part of the rim just seems to get to me, lol! As long as its structurally sound, 100% round like the other rims and won't get any rust where the lack of black finish is then I say, great find and I'll be calling these guys for rims in the future!


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Who can spot the replacement rim? hehe













#1







#2







#3






:signs013:
#4


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Close-ups of the damaged rim. *I'm very lucky that it never failed.*


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

The light looks really bad for some reason in picture #3, but as you can tell from the very first pic of the passenger's side, the front OEM rim is indistinguishable from the rear replacement


----------



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

You are very lucky you didn't have a blowout on that tire/rim combination. I'm actually surprised you didn't have a pressure loss on that wheel.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Yup, no tire pressure loss or anything. No blowout, no tire failure, no significant damage. Got really lucky. The valve that connects to the electronic tire pressure monitoring system was broken, so the shop replaced it; a $9 part so no biggie. 

For future reference, the $80 TPMS sensor and the $9 valve are two separate parts, so a broken valve doesn't mean you have to replace the expensive sensor too since the expensive part just comes off and goes on the new cheap valve. Just a heads up. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


----------



## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow, that is bad damage. Surprising that it still held air. 

P.S. for those posting about nitrogen. GM released a service bulletin regarding the use of nitrogen (#05-03-10-020D). Basically they say that they don't oppose the use of nitrogen, but see no benefit to it. The SB says that any amount of oxygen in the tires eliminates any theoretical benefits. It also says that the rims and tires are engineered to be used with normal air. "The realized benefits to our customer of inflating their tires with purified nitrogen are expected to be minimal."


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Dorman sells a replacement valve stem for five bucks.

Sure looks like curb damage, seen this many times. Many bank drive-throughs are notorious for this as they extend the curbs way beyond their ATM machines. Have to study that before entering, and you sure can't see what's going on, on the right side. 

Your wheel sure looks repairable, seen a lot worse than that, that were repaired.


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Yeah, it may as well have been a curb for how deep the pothole was. You mentioned insurance too; my deductible starts at $1,000 so it's cheaper for me to handle things like this independent of my insurance company.

Where would I go to get it repaired? How much does it cost?


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Posted a line above someplace, but more than likely from the same place you got your rebuilt wheel from. Did you even ask about core value?

Yeah, I hear some of our city councilmen claim if they don't repair some of the pot holes around here, will be in for a lawsuit, but never heard of anyone suing the government, the judge gets paid by the government!


----------



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm just glad to see your not driving on that rim anymore.


----------



## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

So which picture # is the replacement rim? I'm gonna go with picture #3. 

Just make sure you remember which wheel is the replacement just in case anything starts to surface with it down the road, like the silver finish coming off or the rim getting weak and splitting where they fixed any initial crack or something. 

You should wash that black beauty up and then post some more pics of your cruze, lol!


----------



## mbucklein (Jun 6, 2013)

Starks8 said:


> So which picture # is the replacement rim? I'm gonna go with picture #3.
> 
> Just make sure you remember which wheel is the replacement just in case anything starts to surface with it down the road, like the silver finish coming off or the rim getting weak and splitting where they fixed any initial crack or something.
> 
> You should wash that black beauty up and then post some more pics of your cruze, lol!


You are right, it's #3. I don't know why the lighting looks as if a solar eclipse is going on, but as you can tell from the pic of the passenger side of the whole car, both of the wheels look the same. I'm pleased with the results, and I do intend to keep close eye on it. I'll remember in my head which wheel it is; I don't want to mark it or anything because I don't want guys in a shop to treat it any differently.

I need to wash my car really badly, I waxed it a few weekends ago with special wax for black cars and it looked really good, got a few shots of that. I used a wax by Dupont. Have a look


----------



## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

Great looking pics! The black LTZ RS's are certainly sexy when they are nice and shined up. I have a black car now and its hard to keep clean so i don't know if i'll ever buy another black car. 

You should look into this...DP Wheel Glaze cleans and protects all types of wheels! Durable wheel polymer wax coating protects wheels from brake dust adhesion and corrosion. to keep your rims looking nice and protected after washing them.


----------

