# Help- trying to find a dealer who knows how to work on gen 2 diesel



## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Hello

As the title states I’m looking for a dealership that is equipped and knows how to diagnose these gen 2 diesels

In the last 5 months, my cars spent almost 3 months at 2 different dealerships. 

Issue: Car bucks and hesitates when you go to first start driving after a cold start. No CEL. Issue clears after 1-2 minutes and rides beautifully

Concern: dealership #1 replicated the issue 3 separate occasions and told me verbatim “our hands are tied, there’s no check engine light”. Then I brought it back with 80 miles left on my warranty and told them I won’t take the car back without a repair. Magically, they were unable to replicate the issue after keeping it for 2 weeks...sure ok
Dealership #2: car is at dealership #2 (where I bought the car new). They’ve got the car parked in the back lot. Issue only happens first 60 seconds of driving and goes away. It takes more than 60 seconds to drive to the exit of their lot to get up to speed. Unable to replicate issue because they refused to move the car next to the exit for a whole month and a half. 3 senior GM advisors and 1.5 months later I’ve finally got them to move the car towards the exit to _begin_ recreating the conditions they exist under

Unrelated: also need a new nox sensor for CEL P11DB. Brought to dealer #2 pre-covid19, they turned my CEL and gave the car back. Light comes on, covid is upon us, now 2 months of waiting for the part there’s zero ETA. I’ve been through 4 senior GM advisors,2 dealerships, and have been dealing with this bucking for a year and a half.

I will drive anywhere. Anywhere in the USA to any dealership that claims to be able to properly diagnose a diesel gen 2 without a CEL.

Does anyone have any favorites? I’m growing desperate. I can’t go the lemon law route and it’s too late for buyback. I want to fix the car and get rid of it

My theory is my EGR is gunked up at 38,000 miles and is stuck when first driving but clears up with a little heat and rpm.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Where are you located?

Jeff


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Not all issues will trigger a MIL (CEL). My dealership said they needed to replace an injector on one of my cars, and there was never a MIL or DTC code that I picked up on a standard OBD2 scan.. but I'm sure it was there, as these dealerships won't replace parts at random for warranty work. I never noted a problem with the supposedly bad injector. 

In theory, any GM dealship should have the techincal know how, the 2.8L Duramax uses very, very similar engine controls and programming to the 1.6L Diesel, and there are many more of the 2.8s out there. That and the 6.6l duramax is common, so they should all have some diesel experience. At what milage whould you say you first noticed the bucking condition? I think you might be on to somthing with EGR, as that can cause symptoms as you describe, also a gunked up throttle valve can do it as well. In fact, on Gen 1 LUZ 2.0 L diesel, that is exactly what I have seen. I was able to do a clean without full disasembly on the car, and it made a big difference, that and the MAP/CACT sensor gets coated with soot and tar like gunk, all thanks to EGR and a bit of oil from turbo going through the intercooler.. That MAP sensor can be pulled and cleaned and might also help. I have a spare for my Gen 1 so I can just swap it out and clean the out of service sensor and shelve it for next swap. 

I have not as yet seen it on my Gen 2s, but the highest milage car is still on about 25K so it's probabaly just a matter of time. 

Generally speaking, dealerships do not like doing warranty work in general, as they don't get paid well by GM for the work. They also are hesitant to put in extensive time when if they find nothing, GM might not compesnsate, and that explains how it is going for you... I know, not great customer service for sure.. but they make very little profit on the small cars like the Cruze, in fact it would not surprise me if they made them at a loss, the only way they make money is the larger vehicles like Trucks and SUVs.. yet the have to make CAFE work or pay big fines to the EPA.. so they make some high MPG cars just for the ability to make the expensive big ones that turn a profit... An interssting tactic by FCA is to just pay Tesla or others who make high MPG cars, or just pay the fines, you'll notice FCA is pretty much SUVs, Trucks, and muscle cars these days.. they don't even bother making the high MPG cars that people don't buy at a loss.. they litterally had brand new Darts on dealership lots for over 2 years past the end of production that had not sold yet! 

With the big drop in gas prices, expect that situation to go more to the larger vehicles.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I found a great dealer that is in Lebanon, Oregon - it was near where my daughter went to school. In the willamette valley and surrounded by farms and the diesel pickups that go with them. Small place, but they had more than one very experienced diesel tech....  

My advice, head to a smaller dealer in the countryside where they see alot of diesel pickups.... You can check reviews on google, etc...

jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Weird. Every dealership that does some volume sales of Duramax pickups has a diesel technician on staff with lots of training. That's a money maker for the dealerships because all those businesses that buy trucks for work do not make money with downtime. All of them operating diesel rigs for business need that truck fixed pronto so it is out there making money.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> Where are you located?
> 
> Jeff


I'm in New Jersey



MRO1791 said:


> Not all issues will trigger a MIL (CEL). My dealership said they needed to replace an injector on one of my cars, and there was never a MIL or DTC code that I picked up on a standard OBD2 scan.. but I'm sure it was there, as these dealerships won't replace parts at random for warranty work. I never noted a problem with the supposedly bad injector.
> 
> In theory, any GM dealship should have the techincal know how, the 2.8L Duramax uses very, very similar engine controls and programming to the 1.6L Diesel, and there are many more of the 2.8s out there. That and the 6.6l duramax is common, so they should all have some diesel experience. At what milage whould you say you first noticed the bucking condition? I think you might be on to somthing with EGR, as that can cause symptoms as you describe, also a gunked up throttle valve can do it as well. In fact, on Gen 1 LUZ 2.0 L diesel, that is exactly what I have seen. I was able to do a clean without full disasembly on the car, and it made a big difference, that and the MAP/CACT sensor gets coated with soot and tar like gunk, all thanks to EGR and a bit of oil from turbo going through the intercooler.. That MAP sensor can be pulled and cleaned and might also help. I have a spare for my Gen 1 so I can just swap it out and clean the out of service sensor and shelve it for next swap.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the trove of info, really helpful. My 2018 has almost 40,000 miles on it by now so perhaps I'm gonna be overdue for a little cleaning. I think once I get the car back, I'm going to go ahead and get in there myself and clean the EGR. I watched a video on a gen 1 and it cant be too too much different. Its an interesting take on why GM doesn't make high mpg sedans and small cars tho, I guess the writing was on the wall for a while. Its a shame the diesel cruze was such a short release.



oregon_rider said:


> I found a great dealer that is in Lebanon, Oregon - it was near where my daughter went to school. In the willamette valley and surrounded by farms and the diesel pickups that go with them. Small place, but they had more than one very experienced diesel tech....
> 
> My advice, head to a smaller dealer in the countryside where they see alot of diesel pickups.... You can check reviews on google, etc...
> 
> jeff


I'm in NJ and have driven across country several times but never PNW! I'm going to keep this in consideration, it could be a nice trip when things in the country subside a bit. Great tip on the countryside places!



Barry Allen said:


> Weird. Every dealership that does some volume sales of Duramax pickups has a diesel technician on staff with lots of training. That's a money maker for the dealerships because all those businesses that buy trucks for work do not make money with downtime. All of them operating diesel rigs for business need that truck fixed pronto so it is out there making money.


That was definitely my thought as well, I tried to find a place with a bunch of trucks on the lot. The first dealer that felt the issue had a small lot and not so many duramax trucks around, the second dealership is huge and has a lot of trucks and has a lot full of commercial diesel trucks. The problem with dealer 2 is I wasted almost 2 months and 3 GM customer care senior advisors begging this dealership to park the car at the exit to feel the issue immediately on startup- rather than leaving it in the back lot. They fought me and the advisors for almost 2 months and just finally agreed to heed the advice and give it a shot.



I really appreciate this community, I'm trying to stay hopeful but between the level of assistance GM customer care has been and the dealership experience so far, it's really been a very stressful journey and I'm hoping that things can be turned around. I really miss my car


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Google says.


Dirty or worn out fuel filter
A damaged or worn out fuel pump
Faulty or damaged oxygen/Air sensors
A dirty, clogged or damaged EGR valve
A dirty or clogged air filter
I would imagine the dealer checked the air filter, maybe double check it for dirt and fitment.
Could a seal in or around the boost pump be sucking air until warm?


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I have a alldatadiy account for my Cruze and it gives you factory manual description on how to remove and replace the EGR.

Jeff


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> I have a alldatadiy account for my Cruze and it gives you factory manual description on how to remove and replace the EGR.
> 
> Jeff


The dealership called me to say that I needed to come by and they needed to get me into a different loaner car because for insurance purposes they can’t lend the same one out for more than somethingsomething amount of days

I drove in and at the counter they said “cars done”, handed me my keys, said they got the nox sensor in and they couldn’t replicate the hesitation

In the 2 months that myself and three GM senior customer care advisors fought with them about leaving the car towards the exit of the parking lot to recreate the issue, not once did they do so

When I took my car back covered in bird excrement and pollen (do GM dealerships no longer wash cars?), ironically GM called and they said how great it is my car is fixed. I’m thinking to myself JFC why is it nobody will bother to dig in and figure this car out?? 

After 2 months of saying “sure no problem” and “we can recreate the conditions of accelerating up to 35 mph in our tiny parking lot”, I was told they can’t road test the vehicle for insurance purposes and can’t leave it by the exit for insurance purposes.

I wasted 2 months at this dealership and the entire time they had no desire to begin to create the proper conditions for this to exist. 0-2




Looks like I’m going to DIY route, first start is the egr and egr cooler. Would you be so kind to pass that info along?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Carminooch, I'm a GM tech reletivepy local to you, with GMs highest level of certs in diesel. Feel free to PM me any of the info you have regarding your issue and what's been done. 8d be happy to help. I'll read through the thread as well when I get a chance.


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## //oilburner (Mar 9, 2019)

Please share the results - I'm in S Mass near RI and need advice on place to take my "Deesil".


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

//oilburner said:


> Please share the results - I'm in S Mass near RI and need advice on place to take my "Deesil".


Will do, I’ll keep this thread updated


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## simplyrob (Jun 20, 2018)

I had a very similar issue, along with a ticking sound, and no codes. It was a bad injector in cylinder #3.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

If your car is auto trans, there's at least two TCM calibration that can cause symptoms similar to yours. A reprogram resolves it.

Are you now or have you ever run an oiled air filter?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Carminooch said:


> The dealership called me to say that I needed to come by and they needed to get me into a different loaner car because for insurance purposes they can’t lend the same one out for more than somethingsomething amount of days


Did you consider hanging on to the loaner and telling them "Go screw yourself. I'll return the loaner when you actually do what I'm telling you to do to diagnose the problem."


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Did you consider hanging on to the loaner and telling them "Go screw yourself. I'll return the loaner when you actually do what I'm telling you to do to diagnose the problem."


They won’t diagnose the problem. The car has to be parked in a way where you can turn the car on, idle for 30 seconds, and pull into a street. Dealership said it was parked at the exit when in reality it spent every day in the back lot. After almost 2 months of wasting my time at this dealership, I made GM senior advisor call the dealer to ask why they lied to me and 2 other GM advisors I worked with about leaving the car at the exit and the service advisor claims that there’s a policy in place that prevents them from parking the car there. Which is BS so big red flag. I just reached out to the owner of the dealership to confirm their “policy”


The only way to feel it is if they park at the exit and pull immediately on to a street




Ma v e n said:


> If your car is auto trans, there's at least two TCM calibration that can cause symptoms similar to yours. A reprogram resolves it.
> 
> Are you now or have you ever run an oiled air filter?



Mines a manual actually but thanks for the info. It’s completely stock with the air filter being the one the dealership stocks





Since picking my car up from the dealer that couldn’t “feel” the hesitation and misfiring, I drove it 3 times in the morning and each time it was there. Today it bucked so hard my passengers body lunged forward and backwards into the seat and was like “wtf is that”. It’s BRUTAL, I’m genuinely afraid I’m going to break something which is why I extended the warranty to the maximum I could


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I'll keep researching a bit, but be aware that GM Customer Service advisors, even "senior" ones are virtually worthless. You want to talk to the dealers GM area manager. Where in Jersey are you? What dealers have you been going to? I may know the name of the person you should ask to talk to. PM me.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

You say it’s to late to lemon law,why? It seems the perfect use of said law. I would DIY because then GM will try to pin it on you vs warranty it. Get as much out of the warranty as you can. Once out then yah look into a proper fix. Also you could trade it in, sucks to take the loss but it’s a lower resort option.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Carminooch said:


> They won’t diagnose the problem. The car has to be parked in a way where you can turn the car on, idle for 30 seconds, and pull into a street. Dealership said it was parked at the exit when in reality it spent every day in the back lot. After almost 2 months of wasting my time at this dealership, I made GM senior advisor call the dealer to ask why they lied to me and 2 other GM advisors I worked with about leaving the car at the exit and the service advisor claims that there’s a policy in place that prevents them from parking the car there. Which is BS so big red flag. I just reached out to the owner of the dealership to confirm their “policy”


Do you have free time on your hands to screw with them?

Go to the dealership at night when they are closed. Use your spare key to move the car over near the exit, where it needs to be. Show up in the morning before the service department is open, wait for them, and then tell the service manager to get the tech into the car RIGHT NOW with you in the passenger seat and have them drive it to demonstrate it.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

It sounds like it could something as simple as a MAF sensor dropping out. I've also had wonky injectors, FPR cause issues. These things require some pretty solid understanding of how this engine work, and some logging to catch what's going on.

As far as all the comments regarding it should be easy to find a GM diesel tech....it's not. This engine A: no longer used
B: wasn't sold in large numbers even when it was used, and many dealers never even sold a single unit with the LH7. 
C: the LH7 is different enough from the 2.8 and 6.6 that a typical truck tech won't feel comfortable right out of gate working on one. 
D: there's not a large quantity of tech comfortable with the Duramaxes either. GM sells diesels, but they've had a hard time getting dealers and techs to embrace. I'd wager the average dealer work on less than one real diesel concern per week. Many dealers in New Jersey can go weeks without seeing a diesel concern.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> there's not a large quantity of tech comfortable with the Duramaxes either. GM sells diesels, but they've had a hard time getting dealers and techs to embrace. I'd wager the average dealer work on less than one real diesel concern per week. Many dealers in New Jersey can go weeks without seeing a diesel concern.


Weird. To go weeks without seeing a diesel concern means one of two things to me:
1. The engines are very reliable (NARRATOR: "They are not.")
2. The people who own them won't take them to the dealership for work.

Around me there are lots of businesses using Duramax pickups for real work. This includes the Chevy Kodiak (GMC Topkick) trucks that are HD above the 3500 pickups. When those businesses have a problem, it needs fixed NOW so they aren't losing money with a truck sidelined. I guess my Chevy dealership has a notable service department, but the service writers have given me the impression that their one or two diesel techs are usually booked solid with regular work and it's all on HD pickups. I can cruise through there and see any number of business trucks on the lot or in the service bays.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Weird. To go weeks without seeing a diesel concern means one of two things to me:
> 1. The engines are very reliable (NARRATOR: "They are not.")
> 2. The people who own them won't take them to the dealership for work.


The engines, all 3 of them, are very reliable. Electrical concerns are the largest issue across all platforms. Along with fuel pumps on pre '17 6.6s

Theres definitely a large portion of people who don't use dealers for service. Even just looking around here, you'll find many people, even under warranty don't go to dealer.

There's also a 3rd significant reason...there simply aren't that many small diesels on the road. 



> Around me there are lots of businesses using Duramax pickups for real work. This includes the Chevy Kodiak (GMC Topkick) trucks that are HD above the 3500 pickups. When those businesses have a problem, it needs fixed NOW so they aren't losing money with a truck sidelined. I guess my Chevy dealership has a notable service department, but the service writers have given me the impression that their one or two diesel techs are usually booked solid with regular work and it's all on HD pickups. I can cruise through there and see any number of business trucks on the lot or in the service bays.


Not every dealer does large or even proportional diesel service/sales, just like with the Vette, you'll find most dealers do small numbers and a smaller group services and sells the vast majority of the oil burners in any given area..

Yes, commercial vehicles are far more abundant than small diesels. In 2018 alone, Chevy sold over 81,000 Silverado 6.6s(and over 40k GMCs), in 2018 there was less than 1,500 LH7 Cruzes sold....or about a 1% take rate. If you apply 1% across all years of Cruze diesel production you get less than 90,000 total ever. Still only 3/4 of what the big boy does in a single year. {And 1% across all 5years of Cruze diesel is likely being REALLY generous }


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> in 2018 there was less than 1,500 LH7 Cruzes sold....or about a 1% take rate. If you apply 1% across all years of Cruze diesel production you get less than 90,000 total ever. Still only 3/4 of what the big boy does in a single year. {And 1% across all 5years of Cruze diesel is likely being REALLY generous }


The take rate is sad. The 2014-2015 models were a test marketing for GM to see if they could compete with VW (and that was before Dieselgate broke into the news). GM was looking for a 5% take rate, and I'm not sure they achieved that.

When VW completely exited the diesel market in the USA, GM made the generation 2 Cruze as a Golf/Jetta competitor for customers desiring diesel. I didn't see any marketing push for it. GM had the chance to pick up disaffected VW customers and they didn't even try.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

There was less than 525 LH7s in 2019. It's such a small market.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

How would I go about finding production numbers for 2018? I’m curious how many diesel came in a white w black interior rs 6 speed hatch diesel


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Carminooch said:


> How would I go about finding production numbers for 2018? I’m curious how many diesel came in a white w black interior rs 6 speed hatch diesel


I would also love to know the numbers for 2018 ... mine is diesel, manual, sedan, Satin Steel with the Kalahari interior ... the brown interior has to put it in a tiny number. Though I remember when I ordered mine there was actually a twin to it on a lot in Florida.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> There was less than 525 LH7s in 2019. It's such a small market.


How many total 2019 Cruze cars? The 2019 model year was shortened with the last sedan being made in March 2019, so it can't be that many 2019 models total.


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## Plomaman (May 15, 2017)

Carminooch said:


> Hello
> 
> As the title states I’m looking for a dealership that is equipped and knows how to diagnose these gen 2 diesels
> 
> ...


My gen 1 CTD was bucking like crazy @ 30K miles. I found the problem was caused by the egr valve but can be fixed without messing with the egr itself. All I did was pull the air inlet tube from the throttle body, then use a screwdriver to push the butterfly valve open and shine a flashlight into the throttle body. If you see a bunch of black gooey junk in there, that's most likely your problem. I use a tooth brush soaked in carb cleaner and a rag to get most of it out. It completely stopped bucking after that. Hope this helps!


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Plomaman said:


> My gen 1 CTD was bucking like crazy @ 30K miles. I found the problem was caused by the egr valve but can be fixed without messing with the egr itself. All I did was pull the air inlet tube from the throttle body, then use a screwdriver to push the butterfly valve open and shine a flashlight into the throttle body. If you see a bunch of black gooey junk in there, that's most likely your problem. I use a tooth brush soaked in carb cleaner and a rag to get most of it out. It completely stopped bucking after that. Hope this helps!


That’s really good to know. I’m planning on doing just that, I’m mentioning it to the dealership this Tuesday and showing them video and photos I took of the egr valve. It looks like black lava in there, it’s almost completely plugged.

If dealership #3 doesn’t do anything then I’ll go the diy route. I think there’s so much crap in there that it would probably be safer to remove the valve and cooler and clean it, rather than risk sucking in a big ol chunk of carbon

38,000 miles. Spiritedly driven 50/50 town/highway driving. Used to let the car warm up by idling for 5 mins before driving on mornings of below freezing, but I think 30-60 seconds to circulate oil is all that’s required. I won’t be doing much of any idling going forward. I’m very conscious of now driving and operating in a manner to be mindful of the egr


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> The take rate is sad. The 2014-2015 models were a test marketing for GM to see if they could compete with VW (and that was before Dieselgate broke into the news). GM was looking for a 5% take rate, and I'm not sure they achieved that.
> 
> When VW completely exited the diesel market in the USA, GM made the generation 2 Cruze as a Golf/Jetta competitor for customers desiring diesel. I didn't see any marketing push for it. GM had the chance to pick up disaffected VW customers and they didn't even try.


Gm has a problem with marketing. Even the beretta has the problem. GM will release a small scale cool car and won’t advertise it at all. They scratch head ashy it never sold.


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