# 2013 Cruze or 2013 Camry?



## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Hello all,

I've been researching a new car for a few months. I currently have a 2002 Explorer V8, and it's just burning a hole in my pocket with a 25-mile commute one-way, and it's getting a bit long in the tooth at 210,000 miles. Great car, but I do not like the new Ford Focus, and although I like the Fusion, I don't like the 1.6 and it would cost me around $30,000 to get the 2.0T.

So, after driving the Ford Focus, Fusion, and Escape, Hyundai Elantra and Sonata, 2013 Accord, and 2013 Camry and Cruze, I've narrowed my choices down to the Camry and Cruze. I know they are in a different segment, but they are similarly priced. The 2013 Cruze 1LT automatic with a sunroof and RS package, as well as a few other options comes out to around $23,000, and the Camry SE comes out to around $23,500 (24.5 with a sunroof). 

So, based on your ownership experience (any of those of you that have owned a Toyota before?), what would you recommend? I have read about a lot of reliability issues - coolant smell, transmission issues, etc. with the Cruze, but I really like the way it drives. I have also read about transmission concerns with the Camry. So neither is perfect from an internet forum perspective, and I am the first to realize that forums are where people come to vent about car troubles. I just want to make an educated decision here.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

My Toyota experience may be old. 
'77 Corolla SR5 Liftback. Had it 10 years, 100K+ miles. Clutch slave cylinder replaced. It lasted all of 15 minutes on the dealer's lot when I traded it in. 
'80 Celica GT Liftback. Had it 10 years, 98K miles. No mechanical failures. 
Having said that, I've bought Hondas and Mazdas since. 
I'm still looking for that new car to buy. Local auto show will be here a week after the Detroit one, so we'll go look and sit there.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I own one of both (both 2012 models), and I was between the same two in making a decision. I love both cars for different reasons. The Cruze is a sexy beast and fun to drive, and the Toyota isn't too bad looking either.










I would absolutely buy the Camry over the Cruze. Why? Reliability. I've owned the Cruze since April; my girlfriend has owned the Toyota since July (10,700 and 8000 miles, respectively).
In that time, the Cruze has been into the shop for:
1. Defective struts knocking inside of 1,000 miles.
2. AC expansion valve malfunctioned; no AC on hot days.
3. Recirculate flap in the climate control was not working.
4. AC not cold - compressor replaced. Still ain't cold, unless I've been on the highway for a while. I gave up caring.
5. Brake rotors warped within 5,000 miles - replaced under warranty. Clutch spring "twanging" when released; also fixed.
6. Speedometer needle jumped up to 120 when at a stop. Dash module reprogrammed.
7. Steering "sticking" at highway speeds. Steering rack (!) replaced under warranty. :angry:
8. Developing coolant smell with heat on. Not even gonna bother taking it to the dealer yet. 

The Camry is going in this weekend for a transmission software update that makes the downshifts a little softer. We have had ZERO problems with it so far - only a tire rotation and oil change. 

She's owned a 2002 Camry V6 since I met her 3 years ago, and we beat the crap out of both of our cars at the time travelling back and forth 4 hours on weekends to see each other for about a year. Took its toll a bit on the old Volvo, but the Camry has needed nothing in all 10 years her family has owned it but a timing belt and valve cover gasket besides oil changes, tires, and brakes. Boring car, but very reliable. 

All in all, I've been to the dealer about 9 times so far - WAY, WAY too much for a brand-new car. My 14-year old Volvo with over 200K was more reliable. I would not buy another Cruze. I love the car, but it's pissing me off. I don't pay $300+ a month to be constantly inconvenienced by a brand-new car. This is stupid stuff that shouldn't break yet. Makes me worry about the future once the warranty is up. Many people on this forum have had similar problems, and while I know that a forum is a place for people to vent (which I have mostly refrained from), it's good to see that at least I'm not the ONLY one having bad luck with this thing. The car is built very, very well - especially for a GM, and I know that the engine will last a long time. It's just all of the small things.

It's not *as* fun to drive, but the handling on the SE model is great (especially for a Toyota), the transmission is well-designed, and the 2.5 I4 engine is plenty peppy. The AC is amazing, the stereo is amazing, the interior is very nice; it gets good gas mileage, and rides pretty well. Look for a model with the Michelin tires - the Bridgestones are atrocious and noisy. 

The Cruze is much quieter road-noise wise, but the engine in the Camry is quieter. Cruze is a better highway car, hands down. Camry is a better in-town car. Stock radio in the Camry is very nice, with a touch-screen infotainment system. The MyLink system on the 2013 Cruze is an option, but it is very nice and well-worth the upgrade...the stock radio leaves a lot to be desired. As to be expected with the class difference, there's a TON more room in the back of the Toyota. Cruze's interior is better, and the seats are more comfortable. It feels more "solid". The Cruze has a lot more "character", if you believe in such a thing. 

Gas mileage from the Camry so far matches pretty much what the window sticker says - 25 in around-town driving (26 for the automatic Cruze); 35 highway (38 for the Cruze). It got 40 @ 70 mph on one trip where the Cruze got 43.


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## 20131pz69 (Oct 22, 2012)

to make a recommendation, we need to know what exactly it is you are looking for. If it's just economy- the Cruze ECO can get you 50+ mpg (but no sunroof/ leather, I think). From the 1st post it looks like you are mainly interested in economy. 

I got the 2013 2LT and it has the mylink system standard (option on the 1LT) & am satisfied with the functionality. It drives well- better than the camry. Can't comment on the cruze transmission, as mine is a MT. I get 30 mpg with 85% city driving. 

The only things about the cruze I need to get used to is the fact I can't secure stuff in the trunk. There is no way to lock the seatbacks and trunk to prevent them from opening. And the only way to open the trunk with the engine running is to have it in park & use the trunk button on the trunk (this is difficult to communicate with someone trying to load the trunk for you- basically forcing you to get out & open the trunk yourself)

As you can see from my petty complaints, the car is overall pretty good. If you can provide more details on your requirements, we can provide more helpful feedback ...


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

I'd say get the Camry too, Cruzes seem to have way too many issues with them, especially for a car that's been out for 3 years. I don't think I will ever buy another GM car, going to try my luck with Honda. I hear they can actually build a car right.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Wow, thanks for the detailed response JBlackburn! 



20131pz69 said:


> to make a recommendation, we need to know what exactly it is you are looking for. If it's just economy- the Cruze ECO can get you 50+ mpg (but no sunroof/ leather, I think). From the 1st post it looks like you are mainly interested in economy.


A nice, reliable car. The Explorer has been very reliable, but only gets 14-18 mpg. I don't care which gets better fuel economy - anything's better than that. 

I want an AT as I drive in-town a lot, and I want a sunroof. Eco is out. Don't really want leather - gets too hot in the summer.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> I'd say get the Camry too, Cruzes seem to have way too many issues with them, especially for a car that's been out for 3 years. I don't think I will ever buy another GM car, going to try my luck with Honda. I hear they can actually build a car right.


What issues have you had with your Cruze?


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## DevilsRule (Dec 23, 2012)

Have a 2012 Cruze LT. In over 1 year and 13,500 miles I have had zero problems. Before the cruze I had a Cavalier for 12 years and 160,000 miles with no major problems. Buy the Cruze and treat it like a compact economy car.......not a sports car. I wonder how many people blame the car when they are just tuning them and beating the **** out of them because they have a turbo. Also, anybody that thinks foreign cars have no major problems live in fantasy land.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

My dad has a 2012 Camry as a rental this week as we speak!!! He likes it, but having driven that and my Cruze, he says my Cruze is way nicer. It handles better, is better on the highway, and is just better looking.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Same old story here. You'll get responses from the few who have big problems, and then you'll find those like me, who have 18,000 miles, or about what jblackburn's Camry and Cruze have put together. My car has been to the dealer twice; once to replace a windshield wiper nozzle that started leaking, and once to replace the front struts due to a bad batch from a vendor. Both times were painless and happened over 10k miles ago. No problems to speak of here, and there are more people on this board who share the same experience. My brakes are not warped, and my A/C works fine. I'd hardly say the Camry is guaranteed to have no problems whatsoever. 

Always remember that forums attract those who have any issues and that they are not representative of the general population. That said, I don't see the two comparisons as valid. A Cruze 1LT will cost you ~$18k, while a Camry LE will be $4k more than that. If you wanted to compare the Camry to something, you'd compare it to a 2013 Malibu. 

That said, my review of the Cruze may be of some help to you. I have a review of the Malibu in progress. 
Behind the Wheel of the Chevy Cruze - The Xtreme Revolution


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I forgot about the struts! That was another dealer visit. 

But it looks like he's already priced it out and knows what he wants between the two. Both of our cars were around the same price when it was all said and done (yay rebates!)

Also, if you can find a 2012 model, you can get it for a lot cheaper if there are any still on lots. No major changes with either except the MyLink on the Cruze. 


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

Its all about you. I have been through 2 cruzes, over 20,000 combined miles, and had no issues. 

The Crude, however is still a relatively new car with a drive train (1.4 liter models). That is relatively unproven. 

The Camry has been around forever and I believe this newest model hasn't changed much over the last few years.

In terms of reliability, you have a better chance of getting a good reliable car with the Camry. This isn't to say that Toyota is superior, just that the Camry has been around much longer so it won't have the bugs like SOME Cruzes do. (Let me stress that the mass majority of cruzes are good reliable cars like mine were) You still have a chance of getting a problem car like anyone does buying any car. But that chance is less in my opinion. 

That being said, the Cruze has all the comforts, better gas mileage, and much better looks. 

Sent from my XT912 using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## ems2158 (Feb 2, 2012)

> The Cruze is much quieter road-noise wise, but the engine in the Camry is quieter. Cruze is a better highway car, hands down. Camry is a better in-town car. Stock radio in the Camry is very nice, with a touch-screen infotainment system. The MyLink system on the 2013 Cruze is an option, but it is very nice and well-worth the upgrade...the stock radio leaves a lot to be desired. As to be expected with the class difference, there's a TON more room in the back of the Toyota. Cruze's interior is better, and the seats are more comfortable. It feels more "solid". The Cruze has a lot more "character", if you believe in such a thing.
> 
> Gas mileage from the Camry so far matches pretty much what the window sticker says - 25 in around-town driving (26 for the automatic Cruze); 35 highway (38 for the Cruze). It got 40 @ 70 mph on one trip where the Cruze got 43.


I test drove the Camry before buying the Cruze and and noticed the same thing about the Cruze being quieter, a better road car and feeling more solid. Fortunately, I'm over 14,000 miles and have not had any problems. I would make the same decision again.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks Xtreme, I had read that review before - I've been poking around forums for all of the cars I've been looking at for a while. I know I am looking at two cars in different segments, but they are comparable in price (around $23,000 for the options I want on the Cruze, and around $23.5-24 for the Camry) and are both what I've liked so far. I do not like the Malibu.

I just want something comfortable and reasonably fun to drive. My wife has a 2003 Honda Accord, and while it has been a great car, it's very unexciting to drive and the seats hurt on long trips. Both the Cruze and Camry have impressed me with their driving dynamics. I will keep the Explorer around for hauling and towing duty/as a 3rd car, since it's not worth anything to sell. And I've had a lot of good memories with the old truck.

I do like the MyLink system, so I will stick with comparing the 2013 Cruze.

One question for you guys - is the Z-link rear suspension worth it? I like the looks of the RS package, especially in red, but I could do without.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> One question for you guys - is the Z-link rear suspension worth it?


Depends how you drive. Throwing it around twisty mountain roads, YES, it's fantastic fun. In-town? Not really. It helps keep the wheels planted on the ground over bumps, and helps the rear of the car rotate a little more into corners.


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## Prentice (Jan 17, 2013)

My dad bought a new camry last month and after seeing my new ltz last saturday, he said thats what I should have bought! You have to know my dad he just doesent say stuff like that i was shocked! He really was impressed with all the features of the Cruze. He told me I did good.


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## gottaride68 (Jan 15, 2013)

If you're feeling old in your life, and about to retire and take up gardening and golfing, definitely get the corola

IF YOU'RE FEELING ALIVE GET THE CRUZE AND LIVE IN THE FAST LANE....

Shiver (is the name of my silver cruze) makes me feel like i'm flyin' a space ship...a gallexy fighter if you will.....

Live long and prosper my frien' \ /


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## lilmrsyeti (Mar 3, 2012)

My cousin has a 2012 Camry and we have a 2011 Cruze. He got his Camry before we did our Cruze. I really liked his Camry and was for sure if I had a chance to buy a brand new car, that would be it. Until we went to a Dealer who had our Cruze on the lot. Talk about Love at first sight! To me, the Cruze is way more fun to drive/ride. We get better gas mileage than he does. I personally like the seats of the Cruze better for longer rides than I do that of the Camry.

One thing you have to think about though..are you planning on Trading this car in down the road for a newer one,or keeping it for years to come? I'm not positive on this, but I believe the Camry holds it's Value better than the Cruze. Of course once the Cruze is around longer, that may not be the case.

I think you'll win with either choice. Both are very nice cars!


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Buying a Toyota anymore is just practically the same as purchasing a US brand of car, both are dictated by the government. Still hanging unto my 88 Supra, was designed by top American Engineers with Italian styling. Japanese were highly interested in invading the US market. Also forced American industry to produce higher quality.

I did get every option in my Supra except for leather, Japanese used some kind of rat skin for that. One advantage of buying a Cruze, we have a Stacy to help with that. With Toyota, may deal with a white guy, but he has to answer to a yellow guy. All vehicles can have problems. Had problems with my Supra that I would have resolved here with a domestic car, that yellow guy said no. Took care of those myself, but was quite angry.

In my neck of the woods, these Japanese vehicles rust out far quicker than the domestics. If it wasn't for the internet, would have gotten rid of my Supra a long time ago. Toyota dealers rob you blind on parts. 

One thing I really like about it, doesn't have that dumb looking cowboy type of icon, Toyota introduced that later.

In the mid 80's to the early 90's my entire huge family was driving Honda's, Nissan's, and Toyota's, but that change after the Japanese devaluated the US buck. As far as I am concerned, the same kind of junk made here.

Other things that bug mem is that the ratio of US patents held by Japanese corporations is ten to one for US patents held by US corporations. Try and get a Japanese patent as a US citizen. Japanese corporations are even worse than US corporations to outsourcing to 3rd world countries. And we are still spending trillions of our dollars for their military defense. If they had to pay for their own, would really have to pay a small fortune for a Toyota.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Because of historical reliability issues and public perception, Toyotas tend to hold their resale value better than GMs. Of course, when you get to 10 years and close to 200,000 miles there really isn't a difference.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Depends how you drive. Throwing it around twisty mountain roads, YES, it's fantastic fun. In-town? Not really. It helps keep the wheels planted on the ground over bumps, and helps the rear of the car rotate a little more into corners.


I can't say I noticed quite that large of a difference between my Eco and the LTZ I drove. 

One has to consider when comparing a Cruze with the z-link suspension and one without. To my knowledge, the Eco does not have it, while the 1LT, 2LT, and LTZ do have it. I'm not sure about the LS. 

Point being, if you buy an eco, not only do you not have the z-linnk suspension, but you also have the "crap for grip" LRR tires, so you can't really blame the reduction in handling ability solely on the lack of the z-link suspension. In fact, it's impossible to do so unless you put the same wheels and tires on both cars. 

I haven't read anything that would indicate that the z-link suspension does more than provide additional stability over bumps.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

jimmyboy said:


> What issues have you had with your Cruze?


Coolant smell while running the heater on the inside of the car, hazing on the front windshield, fogging up of just about every window in the car, clunky front suspension from one side, random burning smell coming from the engine and this is a brand new 2013 with 1900 miles. The Cruze looks very nice inside and out, but as far as reliability goes, can't say I'm impressed. As we speak my brand new car is the shop getting a new heater core put in. You'll always be better off getting something that has been proven to be reliable, unless you like taking chances. I currently regret my purchase and wish I had gotten my first choice, a 2013 Honda Civic. I'll just run this till the b2b warranty is done, then trade it in.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

That "burning smell" is normal for the first 4000 miles or so. It's the new plastics breaking in, and some exhaust system components have stickers on them that will burn off. Both of the new cars did this for a couple months.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

XtremeRevolution said:


> One has to consider when comparing a Cruze with the z-link suspension and one without. To my knowledge, the Eco does not have it, while the 1LT, 2LT, and LTZ do have it. I'm not sure about the LS.


I don't know about the LS but all 2011-2012 Cruze 1LT, 2LT, LTZ & ECO automatics get the Z-link. in 2013 GM stopped installing it on the 1LT only way to get it on a 1LT now is with the RS package. 

I would assume that means the 2013 LS & ECO automatic also don't get the Z-link. 

I live in a hilly area with lots of twisty roads with s-curves one after another in spots. I wanted the Z-link because every little bit helps! Even my 1LT with crappy 16in firestones is very stable in the corners, the back end stays very planted even when throwing the car one way & the other with dips in the road. Definitely does not feel like a typical economy car.


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## 20131pz69 (Oct 22, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> I'd say get the Camry too, Cruzes seem to have way too many issues with them, especially for a car that's been out for 3 years. I don't think I will ever buy another GM car, going to try my luck with Honda. I hear they can actually build a car right.


Ex- Honda owner here- 2001 civic EX, 2005 Honda Odyssey let me tell you a few issues I have had:

1. Brand new civic stalling at stop signs/ lights. Techs told me it's because I can't drive a MT (been driving them for 15 yrs. Encountered the stalling issue for a month since I bought the car- made sure it wasn't driver issue). Gave up dealing with the dealers, internet came to my rescue. Had to get a TSB that was missed that fixed my issue. Dealer still charged me for the flash, only waived the diagnostic fee- he said it was because of Honda (I've got a good relationship w/ the service manager there)

2. Few years later my headlights went out while I was on the road at night- It was scary trying to make back the last 5 miles on unlit roads in the middle of the night. Turns out the dealers were notified a recall was issued the prior night for this. Never got anything in the mail. Honda refused to replace the cost of my bulbs.

3. Recalls for airbags on both vehicles. Handled well.

4. Van has a squealing at low speed from the rear axle/ brakes (I can't isolate the source). Honda- trained techs say they cannot replicate the issue.

^ these are the big ones I remember. It seems to me Honda & Toyota owners are fanboys/ tend to forget their issues & not talk about them, makes it sound like they have no issues. Also Factory support is unheard of. You will be ignored by Honda/ Toyota unless you retain a lawyer ...


The digital gauge civics I don't like, my friends say they are OK. The fit is a blast, though under- powered.


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## 20131pz69 (Oct 22, 2012)

jimmyboy said:


> Wow, thanks for the detailed response JBlackburn!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The camry is certainly more spacious, especially the rear seats. And Camry reliability will likely be better than the cruzes. It would probably suit you better. For sure, test drive both with a friend, so you can evaluate being a passenger as well (rear seat comfort/ temperature etc ...) before you decide


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## mr_raider (Aug 13, 2011)

Chevrolet Cruze Reliability vs. Toyota Camry Reliability

According to this, the Camry is well above average in reliability, while the Cruze is average.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

lilmrsyeti said:


> One thing you have to think about though..are you planning on Trading this car in down the road for a newer one,or keeping it for years to come? I'm not positive on this, but I believe the Camry holds it's Value better than the Cruze. Of course once the Cruze is around longer, that may not be the case.


The 2011 Cruzes are not doing well in the value holding department, except the eco. However, The 2012 cruzes are best in class over the civic, corolla and focus. the Corolla is a somewhat close second. I am sure the 2013s, which is what he is looking at, will carry on this trend


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> That "burning smell" is normal for the first 4000 miles or so. It's the new plastics breaking in, and some exhaust system components have stickers on them that will burn off. Both of the new cars did this for a couple months.


Ditto, both of my cruzes did this until the 200-2500 mile mark. Then it just went away.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

mr_raider said:


> Chevrolet Cruze Reliability vs. Toyota Camry Reliability
> 
> According to this, the Camry is well above average in reliability, while the Cruze is average.


Online publications for late model vehicles with reference to reliability are useless, for a few reasons. 

1. They are new cars. Predicting reliability based on historical trends is a joke. Honda and Toyota's decline in recent years, but it seems people think they were the same as they were in the late 90s. Not so much. 
2. The Cruze is a new model and the reliability of it is based on the 2011 year, which had a significantly higher likelihood of problems than the 2012 year, which had many problems resolved before the car ever got to the dealer. The same can be said comparing the 2012 and the 2013 model years. If you are looking for a new car today, comparing the historical reliability of even the Cruze in light of these facts is a futile attempt. 

A 2013 Cruze is going to be more reliable than a 2012 Cruze, which is going to be more reliable than a 2011 Cruze. I'm saying this as a general statement with regard to the total ownership of these vehicles and likelihood of problems being encountered. Any comparison publications will fail to address this.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Online publications for late model vehicles with reference to reliability are useless, for a few reasons.
> 
> 1. They are new cars. Predicting reliability based on historical trends is a joke. Honda and Toyota's decline in recent years, but it seems people think they were the same as they were in the late 90s. Not so much.
> 2. The Cruze is a new model and the reliability of it is based on the 2011 year, which had a significantly higher likelihood of problems than the 2012 year, which had many problems resolved before the car ever got to the dealer. The same can be said comparing the 2012 and the 2013 model years. If you are looking for a new car today, comparing the historical reliability of even the Cruze in light of these facts is a futile attempt.
> ...


FWIW, True Delta data is based off owner's surveys, and has nothing to do with basing the reliability off previous years. I had one there for my previous car, but I can't remember the password. Anyway, they ask you about repairs done to the car every month, or to report if no repairs were done.

That said, there aren't many entries there for either car.

I am a bit surprised with the 2007 Camry in that survey - I guess they didn't get many negative responses. The 4-cyl's were known for burning oil and eating water pumps and the 3.5 was just introduced with reliability problems as well.


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

20131pz69 said:


> ^ these are the big ones I remember. It seems to me Honda & Toyota owners are fanboys/ tend to forget their issues & not talk about them, makes it sound like they have no issues. Also Factory support is unheard of. You will be ignored by Honda/ Toyota unless you retain a lawyer ...


I've never owned a Honda so I can't speak to them. 

As for the latter statements about Toyota, totally untrue. People post about their problems on Priuschat. I've posted about mine at http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/1420-list-all-problems-youve-had-23.html#post113003. I'm a bit past 70K miles on my 06 Prius that I bought in January 06 and haven't had any new problems since that post.

There have been plenty of instances where something has failed on Toyotas out of warranty and Toyota's stepped up to pay for the entire repair or part of it. They've also sometimes extended warranties like with Combination Meter Warranty Enhancement | PriusChat and LSC A0N - HV (Inverter) Water Pump; Dealer Letter and Technical Instructions | PriusChat.

I posted at 06-09 Prius HID class action settlement award letters | PriusChat about receiving a class action settlement check to cover the price of 2 HID bulbs even though I was a bit out of the extended warranty provided by Toyota Prius Class Action Lawsuit | Toyota Headlight Lawsuit | Girard Gibbs LLP. 

My parents aren't fanboys or fangirls of Toyota but my mom's 96 Camry was virtually troublefree until it was totaled in the beginning of 08 (posted about it at http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-e...-engine-manual-transmission-3.html#post103291). She has an Altima Hybrid now.

My dad's 02 Rav4 has also been virtually troublefree. The most notable problem I'm aware of was actually quite serious in terms of potential danger, but cheap to fix. He called me about a gasoline smell. He had it towed and IIRC, there was some loose connection at the fuel rail. IIRC, it was <$100 to fix. 

That said, despite it being reliable, I dislike his Rav4. It's a piece of crap IMHO. It's slow, noisy, doesn't have a very good ride, has a cheap interior and feels tipsy. I've never driven a vehicle as tipsy feeling as that. I would never want to own that generation of Rav4. (And, I'll admit I'm a Toyota fan.)


silverls said:


> The Camry has been around forever and I believe this newest model hasn't changed much over the last few years.


First part of the statement is true. The second is not. The Camry began a new generation w/the '12 model year. Interior and exterior are totally different. The Camry Hybrid also got a boost in power and mileage at 41 mpg combined which is quite good for a 200 hp medium-sized car.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> First part of the statement is true. The second is not. The Camry began a new generation w/the '12 model year. Interior and exterior are totally different. The Camry Hybrid also got a boost in power and mileage at 41 mpg combined which is quite good for a 200 hp medium-sized car.


The powertrain however - the 3.5 V6 (fanTASTIC engine) and the 2.5 I4, as well as the 6-speed auto are tried and true, and have been in production over 5 years. Should be relatively problem-free. Unlike the Corolla, they're still competitive and offer good performance/fuel economy.



> That said, despite it being reliable, I dislike his Rav4. It's a piece of crap IMHO. It's slow, noisy, doesn't have a very good ride, has a cheap interior and feels tipsy. I've never driven a vehicle as tipsy feeling as that. I would never want to own that generation of Rav4. (And, I'll admit I'm a Toyota fan.)


Yeah, my best friend in college had one. POS. Never broke though.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys. I've approached a few owners in parking lots (creepy, I know) and asked them what they think of their cars. I'd say a good 4/5 of them love their cars. 

I'm going out tomorrow to sit down with both dealers and talk numbers. I'm also going to talk to the service department at Chevy to see if they can get me a car with the antifreeze smell TSB already taken care of. 

With all this car shopping, my wife is starting to want to trade in her Honda too! Oh boy.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

blackcruzelt said:


> I'd say get the Camry too, Cruzes seem to have way too many issues with them, especially for a car that's been out for 3 years. I don't think I will ever buy another GM car, going to try my luck with Honda. I hear they can actually build a car right.


Honda isn't what they used to be. If you're basing a buy on reliability and still fun to drive the Subaru Impreza is the best out there, IMO


XtremeRevolution said:


> I can't say I noticed quite that large of a difference between my Eco and the LTZ I drove.
> 
> One has to consider when comparing a Cruze with the z-link suspension and one without. To my knowledge, the Eco does not have it, while the 1LT, 2LT, and LTZ do have it. I'm not sure about the LS.
> 
> ...


If you have poor roads, like I do, the Z Link will keep the rear end from jumping all over the place especially around turns. I definitely want it and GM shouldn't have removed it from the 1LT. IMO



blackcruzelt said:


> Coolant smell while running the heater on the inside of the car, hazing on the front windshield, fogging up of just about every window in the car, clunky front suspension from one side, random burning smell coming from the engine and this is a brand new 2013 with 1900 miles. The Cruze looks very nice inside and out, but as far as reliability goes, can't say I'm impressed. As we speak my brand new car is the shop getting a new heater core put in. You'll always be better off getting something that has been proven to be reliable, unless you like taking chances. I currently regret my purchase and wish I had gotten my first choice, a 2013 Honda Civic. I'll just run this till the b2b warranty is done, then trade it in.


Drive one like I did. You will not be impressed. The steering column vibrated on the freeway and the seats are awful, not to mention the funky dash.
Check out the Impreza-except for engine noise, it's a great car.

To the OP-I suggest waiting until the 2014 Cruze MCE like I'm doing. Hopefully they will work out the kinks and add some improvements other than just looks.
No way I would buy a Cruze now and I'm a GM guy.


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> The powertrain however - the 3.5 V6 (fanTASTIC engine) and the 2.5 I4, as well as the 6-speed auto are tried and true, and have been in production over 5 years. Should be relatively problem-free. Unlike the Corolla, they're still competitive and offer good performance/fuel economy.


FWIW, re: the Corolla (which I'm no fan of), the Corolla is actually still competitive in terms of FE despite not having a high EPA highway rating. Take a look at the combined mileage at Compare Side-by-Side vs. various Cruze automatics.

In Consumer Reports' FE testing, the Corolla made #4 and 5 at Best & Worst Fuel Economy | Most & Least Fuel Efficient - Consumer Reports under small sedans. In the _same _FE tests, they beat out all the Cruzes they tested.

For comparison (I've posted these before in another thread), here's what the Cruzes got in their tests:
'11 LS 1.8L 6AT: 26 mpg overall, 17 city/36 highway
'11 1LT 1.4L 6AT: 26 mpg overall, 17 city/36 highway
'12 Eco 1.4L 6AT: 27 mpg overall, 17 city/40 highway

At Small Sedans | Fuel Efficient Sedans - Consumer Reports and Are the high-mpg versions of the Chevrolet Cruze, Ford Focus, and Honda Civic worth the money?, they mention the 27 mpg overall for the Cruze Eco vs. 32 mpg overall for the Corolla.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

No way i'd buy a subaru. The auto in the impreza is a CVT, and is almost a full second slower in the 1/4 mile than the Cruze. 

My Cruze is the slowest car i've ever owned by a decent margin, can't imagine owning something considerably slower. 

I have no faith in subaru reliability or engineering. They're faux performance cars, even the WRX, STI and especially the BRZ are a joke IMO. I test drove a $32K 2012 WRX, was half asleep by the time i got back to the dealer. What a turd. It's quick if you launch it from 5500rpm, by the time you hit 30mph the fun is over. Body roll is comical for a "sports" car, and it had insane heat soak also. 

How many legitimately fast STIs are there? Very, Very few. How many 400+whp Evos are there? Plenty. 

I've tried to understand subarus and their generally cocky owners, never been able to. My buddy owns a well known subaru performance shop, they do everything from timing belts to full builds and dyno tuning. He has a constant stream of cars with blown motors from piston failures coming in. Endless work, he can't keep up. Sometimes he has 4 or 5 cars waiting for pistons, rebuilds, or swaps...whatever the owner chooses after their bolt-on car can't handle 325whp and cracks a ring land.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

And the Boxer engines are SO NOISY. 


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Hoon said:


> No way i'd buy a subaru. The auto in the impreza is a CVT, and is almost a full second slower in the 1/4 mile than the Cruze.
> 
> My Cruze is the slowest car i've ever owned by a decent margin, can't imagine owning something considerably slower.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised its slower, when I drove it it felt pretty peppy. Also surprised about all those issues, does he mainly work on WRX's? I assume they are beaten up pretty badly. Subaru is supposed to be reliable, I know 3 people who own other models with zero issues. The CVT felt better than I thought it would and I generally hate them


jblackburn said:


> And the Boxer engines are SO NOISY.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App


Yes, definitely noise is a factor. The CVT whines as well. The Cruze is much quieter.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Well, we ended up taking the wife's car around this weekend to car shop. We stopped at the Honda dealer again at her request, which is right across the street to the Toyota dealer, and I got the chance to drive the Accord Sport I4 in a stick shift. My first drive in the Accord, I was a bit overwhelmed by all the gadgets, but the 2nd drive I just had a lot of fun with the car.

The salesman took a look at our car and offered us a decent trade-in price, so we're now thinking of replacing both cars with two different models. She also loves the Accord and has a short commute to work without much traffic, so it will probably be her car and mine to have fun with on weekends.

The Cruze is still in the running, and I love the fun-to-drive character, but after driving it again in traffic moving 45-55 after the Accord and Toyota, I just felt that it was underpowered and needed to be floored to really get out in traffic, and I'm not sure if I could go from a big, powerful V8 to that.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I have yet to take a look at the 2013 Accord, but I really want to.

If you REALLY want to spoil your opinion of all of them, drive the V6 versions. Both cars have FANTASTIC V6 motors that will put some "sports sedans" to shame. 

I know what you mean. The Cruze has decent acceleration around town to keep up with traffic, but if you really need to move quickly out into traffic already moving, the gears are short and you have to push it hard. The 2011 automatic I drove liked to rev quickly to 5000 RPM and scream through 1st and 2nd gears when I wasn't even stepping on the gas that hard around town just getting up to 35-45 with the normal pace of traffic. The manual LS/LT are much, much more well-behaved.

You mentioned that your wife liked the manual Accord - are you open to a manual, or want an auto for your commute?


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

jimmyboy said:


> Well, we ended up taking the wife's car around this weekend to car shop. We stopped at the Honda dealer again at her request, which is right across the street to the Toyota dealer, and I got the chance to drive the Accord Sport I4 in a stick shift. My first drive in the Accord, I was a bit overwhelmed by all the gadgets, but the 2nd drive I just had a lot of fun with the car.
> 
> The salesman took a look at our car and offered us a decent trade-in price, so we're now thinking of replacing both cars with two different models. She also loves the Accord and has a short commute to work without much traffic, so it will probably be her car and mine to have fun with on weekends.
> 
> The Cruze is still in the running, and I love the fun-to-drive character, but after driving it again in traffic moving 45-55 after the Accord and Toyota, I just felt that it was underpowered and needed to be floored to really get out in traffic, and I'm not sure if I could go from a big, powerful V8 to that.


That's one of the reasons I didn't buy one. Heck, it feels underpowered compared to my Cobalt. I'm hoping the 2014 model will have some powertrain improvements.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

steve333 said:


> That's one of the reasons I didn't buy one. Heck, it feels underpowered compared to my Cobalt. I'm hoping the 2014 model will have some powertrain improvements.


Really? I felt the Cruze (at least my manual) was more spunky than an '09 Cobalt. And the 2010 Focus was peppier than both. Of the two (Focus and Cobalt), the Cobalt engine felt much smoother, but seemed to rev to the sky since it had no low-end. And my god the interior was cheap.


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## epcotbob (Dec 27, 2012)

I considered a Corolla for a while, but was dissuaded by the problem they had with excessive oil consumption once they hit the 100K miles mark. I saw a number of used ones for sale on craigslist that mentioned everything great about the car except for needing a quart of oil every 500 miles. Not sure if they fixed that problem in later years.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> Really? I felt the Cruze (at least my manual) was more spunky than an '09 Cobalt. And the 2010 Focus was peppier than both. Of the two (Focus and Cobalt), the Cobalt engine felt much smoother, but seemed to rev to the sky since it had no low-end. And my god the interior was cheap.


I have an '06 and it shoots off when I hit the gas from a stop, lots of low end grunt. The pick up improved after I had the valves cleaned at the dealer.
The interior is definitely cheap, especially the plastic around the window switches, Had it replaced because of chipping and one month later it happened again. All I have to do is touch it and the gray coating comes off.
My seats are more comfortable than the Cruze because it has lumbar controls, although the seat also suffers from too narrow cushions and are also not deep enough.
If the Cruze had better seats and my Balt's engine I'd be all over it like white on rice.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Guess it's just the transmission then. Auto + 4 cylinder = snore. 

My MT Cruze is a rocket in 1st and 2nd gears, surprisingly quick and responsive for as small as the engine is. 3rd and up? Forget about it...not much power over 45 mph. Cobalt seemed to struggle similarly around 35+ mph (didn't it only have a 4-speed auto?).

FWIW, OP, the Camry doesn't have much off-the-line acceleration if you just punch it from a stop (it does fine with normal driving, but don't expect to win any stoplight races), but it catches up around 20 mph and will pull to 70 with good haste for a 4-cylinder. The 6-speed transmission is well-spaced out for acceleration at almost any speed. My mom's 2007 2.4 Accord will smoke the Cruze from a stop, but it's around the same weight with an additional 28 HP.

The seats in the Cruze are one of the major reasons I bought it. They're extremely comfortable to me - moreso than any other car in the price range, and moreso than the Camry SE or my mom's Accord. I'm 5'7", 150 lbs, so it may be different if you're a bigger person. My 6'2", 250 lbs dad looks a little uncomfortable in the Cruze. It's not my Volvo that was like sitting on a big leather couch, but even after 6 hours in the Cruze, my butt and back didn't hurt. I've heard that the new Honda has good seats though...finally!


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I think the Accord is definitely on our list. It put a big smile on her face when she drove it around, so I'm going to do the swap for Valentine's Day for her. She's been driving this Accord since we met, so I think she deserves it.

Although I do enjoy driving a manual, I did it years ago in a Sentra in Atlanta traffic, and my wife's Accord, and hated the cars at the end of the day for it. My wife works much closer to home, and doesn't have to deal with traffic as much. I'd rather have the automatic.

The 2013 Cruze doesn't seem to "scream" as you said at moderate throttle, but it will if you push it hard. Just feels kinda gutless when really pushed hard, like there's nothing more there than it's already giving you. The dealer offered to let me borrow it for a day; I'm going to try to see if the Toyota dealer will let me do it for the Camry as well next weekend before I make my final decision.

Thank you all very much for your input - the majority of you have been supportive, and I'm glad I found such a great community.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ever notice the new Camry doesn't have weather strip around the front windshield? Big gap there, with an icy rain, would fill that gap, expand and crack the windshield. That was too cheap for me, least the Cruze still has that all important weather strip.

Could have picked up a new 2011 Accord a year ago last summer, loaded with $7,000 off the price, cheaper than a Cruze. Test drove it, was far more boring to drive than my 04 Cavalier. Also recalled how that dealer tried to screw me wanting 300 bucks for a made in Malaysia blower motor. Did find one on the internet for 40 bucks, but had to wait a week to get it. No Thanks.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> Guess it's just the transmission then. Auto + 4 cylinder = snore.
> 
> My MT Cruze is a rocket in 1st and 2nd gears, surprisingly quick and responsive for as small as the engine is. 3rd and up? Forget about it...not much power over 45 mph. Cobalt seemed to struggle similarly around 35+ mph (didn't it only have a 4-speed auto?).
> 
> ...


Yup, 4 sp auto. It can get a little sluggish at midrange but I know how to work the gas pedal to get it to shift faster. I do know that when i drove the Cruze, traffic has slowed to a crawl in my lane so I switched lanes and had to speed up quickly and the car just did not move for a while and the engine screamed like a banshee. My Cobalt will of course take some time to speed up but not like that. It actually scared the **** out of me.
I'm not a big guy- 5'9" 170 lbs but the seat bottom is just not wide enough or deep enough. I could live with it if it had lumbar controls which sadly seem to be removed as standard by many car companies. I think it's ridiculous to put in all the techie stuff but leave out something so important to comfort.
I don't know about the Accord but the 2013 Civic seats were the worst I have ever sat in. Horribly uncomfortable. I at least didn't get a backache from the Cruze seat, I got one after 10 minutes in the Civic. The Subaru Impreza had betters seats than both cars, IMO


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I noticed some people said that leather seats were a problem in hot weather? I have leather in my Cruze and a couple of days ago it was 47C (115F) when I drove to work and the seats were no problem. Also the engine temp was 86C (187F) on my diesel which is about the same as it was at 6C in winter when I bought it in August 2012. The guy who misses his V8 for torque wait for the diesel so effortless to drive.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> I noticed some people said that leather seats were a problem in hot weather? I have leather in my Cruze and a couple of days ago it was 47C (115F) when I drove to work and the seats were no problem. Also the engine temp was 86C (187F) on my diesel which is about the same as it was at 6C in winter when I bought it in August 2012. The guy who misses his V8 for torque wait for the diesel so effortless to drive.


HAH! You never had black leather seats on a blue car then. Le ouch.

And tan interiors = uglyyyyyyy.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> HAH! You never had black leather seats on a blue car then. Le ouch.
> 
> And tan interiors = uglyyyyyyy.


Car came with leather standard, and tan goes ok with silver. Car does have tinted windows with 99% UV reduction and 40% infra red reduction. My previous car had cloth seats and there is very little difference in comfort. My only regret is the Cruze isn't RWD and the rear suspension is a bit ancient in design. The Commodore had proper IRS. But with only 2 of us a smaller car was required.


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## chaser x (Sep 3, 2012)

Support your country and buy american.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

chaser x said:


> Support your country and buy american.


Which one they're both made here 


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Lol, tan and/or silver = bleh in my book. I owned a gold Accord with a tan cloth corduroy interior. It was pretty hideous. My parents owned several tan leather cars too, and I never liked them. 

Aussie, does the Holden have the Z-link torsion-beam suspension the LT/LTZ Cruzes do over here? The rear suspension is a bit noisy, but I think it works well, and the LT Cruze is sure-footed over roads where there are potholes and patches over patches every which way.

Does the Accord still have independent suspension? Anyone know? The 2007 Accord is the best car I've ever driven over bumps and one of the most pleasant highway cruisers I've ever driven. Just shrugs them off. Doesn't corner brilliantly, and the seats are uncomfortable, but it's good until pushed to the limit.

The older Camrys had a lot softer suspension than the 2012 SE (and cornered about like a Buick), but also had a solid rear axle I believe. The back of the car "floated" over bumps quite badly. Still, it was quieter and more pleasant to ride in as a passenger.


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## chaser x (Sep 3, 2012)

Buy the chevy cruze i get a kick on how much gas i save every week.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

chaser x said:


> Support your country and buy american.


Buying American just for the sake of it is stupid. Buy the better car. 

I bought the Cruze because I was impressed with it. Not because it was American.

Like he said, they're both made here.


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## The_Madcat (Oct 6, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Buying American just for the sake of it is stupid. Buy the better car.
> 
> I bought the Cruze because I was impressed with it. Not because it was American.
> 
> Like he said, they're both made here.



Totally disagree here. Buy American if you can. Yes, they are both assembled here, but the money for the Camry does not stay here. 

If there were a sizeable quality gap between the American and foreign cars I would agree, but there isn't.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> The older Camrys had a lot softer suspension than the 2012 SE (and cornered about like a Buick), but also had a solid rear axle I believe. The back of the car "floated" over bumps quite badly. Still, it was quieter and more pleasant to ride in as a passenger.


The owner of the shop where I take my Cruze for mods, primarily does work on Euro cars (he has Porsche race cars in his showroom) refers to Toyotas as Japanese Oldsmobiles. I kind of agree - driving my parents Avalon - I find it to be very much like driving a large GM car.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Lol, tan and/or silver = bleh in my book. I owned a gold Accord with a tan cloth corduroy interior. It was pretty hideous. My parents owned several tan leather cars too, and I never liked them.
> 
> Aussie, does the Holden have the Z-link torsion-beam suspension the LT/LTZ Cruzes do over here? The rear suspension is a bit noisy, but I think it works well, and the LT Cruze is sure-footed over roads where there are potholes and patches over patches every which way.
> 
> ...


It does have a torsion beam but no watts link like the SRI does. When you hit a pot hole with this type of suspension the shock is felt by both the wheels on that axle with IRS it is much smoother as only 1 wheel is involved. I do like the Cruze but it feels less secure than what I was used to as the front pushes more than I am used to. Anyone who has driven an Aussie made GTO will know what I mean as my car was basically a 4 door version of one of these as it is based on the VT Commodore.
View attachment 10367


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Aussie said:


> It does have a torsion beam but no watts link like the SRI does. When you hit a pot hole with this type of suspension the shock is felt by both the wheels on that axle with IRS it is much smoother as only 1 wheel is involved. I do like the Cruze but it feels less secure than what I was used to as the front pushes more than I am used to. Anyone who has driven an Aussie made GTO will know what I mean as my car was basically a 4 door version of one of these as it is based on the VT Commodore.
> View attachment 10367


Welcome to front wheel drive. When I first made the switch from RWD I hated it. Now I just detest it.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> I do like the Cruze but it feels less secure than what I was used to as the front pushes more than I am used to. Anyone who has driven an Aussie made GTO will know what I mean as my car was basically a 4 door version of one of these as it is based on the VT Commodore.


I know exactly what you mean. I have a 2004 Aussie made GTO. That being said, after moding the Cruze with UR chassis and strut tower bars, my Cruze's handling has improved and the car feels more solid than stock. The GTO is definitely more of drivers/enthusiast car out of the box.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

The_Madcat said:


> Totally disagree here. Buy American if you can. Yes, they are both assembled here, but the money for the Camry does not stay here.
> 
> If there were a sizeable quality gap between the American and foreign cars I would agree, but there isn't.


Of you buy GM the money won't come back to us anyways because GM has a revenue tax break until like 2020


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> HAH! You never had black leather seats on a blue car then. Le ouch.
> 
> And tan interiors = uglyyyyyyy.


Shows how much I notice my seats, they are black and no they didn't get hot. Guess my window tint is good quality.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Brand loyalty and country loyalty is overrated. I don't care who makes the car as long as it's the best car I can get for my money, and that's what companies need to strive to produce. People around me at work (I work for a real estate company) own more expensive luxury cars and always harped on me for owning a F-O-R-D, but my Ford was more reliable than almost every one of their fancy European cars. I gave Ford another chance - I loved my Explorer Eddie Bauer, the first car I ever bought new, and it is still a very nice car - but didn't like anything they have to offer me right now.

After owning a truck, the ride in anything is more than acceptable, but I did notice that the Camry I test drove had the Michelins on it. I'd still say the Cruze is a bit more comfortable and quiet going down the road. I found the seats in both cars to be just fine. 

I want gas, not diesel. One of my friends has a brand-new Passat TDI, and while it pulls down the road nicely, the thing is always broken. I'll take a pass on brand-new technology. I love the new Passat, but his ownership experience has turned me off from buying one. 

My salesman gave me a call today. As of tomorrow, I've been offered a Blue Topaz Cruze 1LT RS with MyLink, sunroof, Pioneer audio, and the convenience/technology packages to drive until Friday afternoon. I pick it up tomorrow evening on my way back from work. He said the price on it would be about $22,900. Very excited to take the Cruze around on more than just a short drive. 

I pick up a Barcelona Red Camry SE with sunroof, Entune, and a few other novelties on Friday evening to take home for the weekend. I'm hoping to have my decision by Sunday!


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

BTW, although I liked my Ford, I know one of my brother's wife's brothers had one. I sent him an email about it a few weeks ago asking how he liked it. This was his response:



> Being a tech, I always drove "bombs". I'm talkin' a 75' Datsun 280Z with rotted floor pans, an 85' Chevy Celebrity Eurosport with again rotted floors, a 91' Corsica 3.1L with 269K miles on it, etc...
> 
> I never needed nothing fancy cause if it broke I always brought it back to life for cheap $.
> 
> ...


Goes to show that no one manufacturer is perfect. I'm sure people have problems with their Toyotas and Hondas too. My Nissan I owned before the Explorer was a total piece of junk.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

I couldn't wait. Headed over to the dealership to pick up the Cruze at lunchtime yesterday 

This car is absolutely beautiful and really is pretty fun to drive.


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## epcotbob (Dec 27, 2012)

jimmyboy said:


> I couldn't wait. Headed over to the dealership to pick up the Cruze at lunchtime yesterday
> 
> This car is absolutely beautiful and really is pretty fun to drive.


Wow! That's a sharp looking car...congratulations!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jimmyboy said:


> I couldn't wait. Headed over to the dealership to pick up the Cruze at lunchtime yesterday :smile:
> 
> This car is absolutely beautiful and really is pretty fun to drive.
> 
> View attachment 10398


Is that a 2LT RS?

I love it! Looks very sharp. Congrats on the purchase! I think you'll really enjoy this car. I've been enjoying mine for over 18k miles!


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## Mattyf2 (Dec 16, 2012)

Camery


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Hold your horses, guys - I haven't BOUGHT it yet! 

Yes, they gave my a 2LT RS because it was one on the lot that came equipped with the sunroof I wanted. They will probably have to special order the model I want (1LT RS), as I don't want the leather seats, and many of the 1LT's are bare-bones that they have at the dealer.

I am really enjoying the car, but I'm dropping it back off tomorrow afternoon to give the other a chance still. 

It's a great cruiser on the highway, the heater works great, the remote start is very cool, the leather seats are pretty nice and comfortable, and so far, it looks like I am getting 31 mpg. That's* AMAZING.*  I do like the MyLink system, and it's working well with my iPhone. 

A couple negatives I have found:
-There is a HUGE blind spot right behind both front doors. Other than this, visibility is very good.
-The upgraded radio isn't that good. It's not even as good as the one in my wife's Accord, and that has one of the worst stereos I've heard. My Explorer had the Mach audio system, and it is worlds above the one in the Cruze.
-There's not enough storage for anything!!!
-The Cruze is peppy around town, but it really struggles to get up to speed once you pass 30 mph. I work off a busy road at 45 mph, and I feel like I really have to romp on the gas to get the Cruze motivated to get out there with the traffic. There's not much in-between - the transmission either shifts at 3,000 RPM or 5,500. I realize it's a small motor and probably needs a lot more revs than most, but I feel bad making it rev so hard. I don't expect a whole lot, but it is down on power even compared to our 2003 Accord 4-cylinder.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Well, dropped off the Cruze, and picked up the Camry this morning. 

I grew to like the little Cruze a lot over the past 2 days with it. 

My wife and I have been running errands with the Camry this morning, and she likes it, I like it, but it's just not AS much fun to toss around.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Whoops, double post.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jimmyboy said:


> Hold your horses, guys - I haven't BOUGHT it yet!
> 
> Yes, they gave my a 2LT RS because it was one on the lot that came equipped with the sunroof I wanted. They will probably have to special order the model I want (1LT RS), as I don't want the leather seats, and many of the 1LT's are bare-bones that they have at the dealer.
> 
> ...


You can eliminate most of the blind spot. Set your side mirrors so they just barely reveal the rear door handles when you turn your head to look a the mirror. You should check over your shoulder anyways before changing lanes.

The radio in the Cruze seems to get better as it ages. My son, who's a Cellist, thinks the speaker paper cones are really stiff and simply need to be broken in.

I came from a extended length minivan - the lack of storage was a real shocker to me as well. The Sonic is smaller and has more storage.

You must have been driving an automatic transmission. The manuals don't have this issue. There are plenty of members here who can help you get more out of the automatic transmission. It appears the Cruze's AT doesn't like being floored but performs better at half throttle. It does take time to learn how to drive these transmissions.


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## DrVette (Dec 6, 2011)

Plz consider the ECO w/6-sp MT

A low carbon footprint & sturdy construction.

from an old wrench
Doc


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## Coolnate32 (May 15, 2011)

Aeroscout977 said:


> Which one they're both made here
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


The Camry has been voted the most American car for the last few years. 

http://www.cars.com/go/about/us.jsp?section=P&content=rel&date=20110627



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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

jimmyboy said:


> Well, dropped off the Cruze, and picked up the Camry this morning.
> 
> I grew to like the little Cruze a lot over the past 2 days with it.
> 
> ...


That a V6 or the special edition SE 4-banger? Those are definitely V6 wheels, and they look fantastic.

I agree with what obermd said...the manual Cruze >>> automatic for getting the power down to the road from the little engine. It's down on power between 50-70, but highway power in top gear is actually excellent. I went from 62-75 on the highway today just flooring the gas in 6th...without even realizing it. It really drives a lot like the 2.4 in my mom's 2007 Accord. Those are fantastic engines in the Accords...once you get the revs up. Contrary to that, the Cruze has a ton of low-end power and starts to run out of breath above 4,000 RPM.


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

Coolnate32 said:


> The Camry has been voted the most American car for the last few years.
> 
> Camry "Most American Car" according to Cars.com Study


Ditto for this more recent press release: Camry Edges Out F-150 for 'Most American' in Cars.com Index.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Ironic the number of "foreign" cars on there, ain't it?

Silly "buy American" people.


*Rank* *Make/Model* *U.S. Assembly Location(s)* *Rank in July 2011* 1. Toyota Camry Georgetown, Ky.; Lafayette, Ind. 1 2. Ford F-150 Dearborn, Mich.; Claycomo, Mo. - 3.  Honda Accord Marysville, Ohio 2 4. Toyota Sienna Princeton, Ind. 6 5. Honda Pilot Lincoln, Ala. - 6. Chevrolet Traverse Lansing, Mich. 8 7. Toyota Tundra San Antonio, Tex. 9 8. Jeep Liberty Toledo, Ohio - 9. GMC Acadia Lansing, Mich. 10 10. Buick Enclave Lansing, Mich. -


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

jimmyboy said:


> So, based on your ownership experience (any of those of you that have owned a Toyota before?), what would you recommend? I have read about a lot of reliability issues - coolant smell, transmission issues, etc. with the Cruze, but I really like the way it drives. I have also read about transmission concerns with the Camry. So neither is perfect from an internet forum perspective, and I am the first to realize that forums are where people come to vent about car troubles. I just want to make an educated decision here.


 To answer your original question, I'd go Camry all the way, for reliability reasons. 

Even though I'm not a real Honda fan (don't dislike their cars, just don't find anything they have that's compelling to me), I'd suggest you also consider the Accord and maybe even the Altima. Both have just had a redesign.

I've posted my personal Prius experiences and that of my parents w/their Toyotas at http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ch...10877-2013-cruze-2013-camry-4.html#post159260 and http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/1420-list-all-problems-youve-had-23.html#post113003. 

My mom used to have a 91 Camry V6 that was handed down to me in 97, which I sold early 02 w/~90K miles on it. That car was reasonably trouble-free as well. I don't have a complete repair history but I can think of a few problems of OTOH. When new, the brake warning light would sometimes come on. The passenger's side mirror was faulty and had some distortion. Those were both fixed. 

I'm unaware of any major problems while under my mom's possession. When I had it, I had a torn CV boot and messed up CV joint, so I got that replaced. Near 90K miles, I had an intermittent check engine light, which was diagnosed as a EGR hose (IIRC) clogged w/carbon. It was cleared and fixed for <$100.

Here are the Consumer Reports predicted reliability ratings (yeah, yeah, cue the folks who are going to slam CR's reliability ratings):
Camry V6: better than average (we expect reliability of new models will be 27% above average)
Camry Hybrid: much better than average (62% above average)
Camry 4-cyl: better than average (49% above average)
Cruze: average (even though it says 17% below average)

CR's current predicted reliability for the Cruze is much better than its horrific showing at http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ch...r-reports-cruze-reliability-dec-11-issue.html. However, the '11 is still rated at much worse than average. Trouble spots are engine cooling, transmission minor, climate system, squeaks and rattles w/the worst being engine cooling. Sound familiar? Fuel system, brakes, body hardware, power equipment and audio system have the half red circle, so it's a notch from the best possible score.

Looking back at the Camry, CR goes back to 03. Not a single model year of any of the engine choices of the Camry has even average reliability. All are above average or much better than average.

Here's JDPA's VDS for 2012: J.D. Power and Associates. See http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/17-o...pendability-study-my-2009-cars.html#post71820 for previous years. I'd expect to see 2013 results in the next 2 months.

My parents had 3 GM cars and 2 Chryslers (well, Dodges). They don't buy American-branded cars anymore and I never have. 

I can't speak for the oldest Dodge ('68 or '69 Dart) and our '93 Dodge Caravan was ok except for transmission problems but our Japanese cars (3 Nissans, 4 Toyotas, if I have the count right) have overall been much more reliable than the GM products. 

The most unreliable was my 04 Nissan 350Z, which wasn't terrible. Virtually everything I had go wrong luckily was fixed under warranty and some weren't worth bothering out of warranty.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

cwerdna said:


> They don't buy American-branded cars anymore and I never have.


You don't have a Cruze?


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

Sunline Fan said:


> You don't have a Cruze?


That is correct. Doesn't make my experiences describing other vehicles that I or my parents have/had any less valid.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

cwerdna said:


> That is correct. Doesn't make my experiences describing other vehicles that I or my parents have/had any less valid.


I'm pretty sure your credibility was not questioned. You have to admit, it is a bit awkward to see someone with over 500 posts on this forum that never owned and most likely never will own a Cruze. 



cwerdna said:


> To answer your original question, I'd go Camry all the way, for reliability reasons.
> 
> Even though I'm not a real Honda fan (don't dislike their cars, just don't find anything they have that's compelling to me), I'd suggest you also consider the Accord and maybe even the Altima. Both have just had a redesign.
> 
> ...


CR's credibility on this forum has been absolutely destroyed. There is no point in bringing up any references to CR. They have gone out of their way to discredit themselves as of late and are quite possibly one of the worst sources of automotive information available. The reasons why we avoid all discussion of CR reviews are endless and have very little to do with their review of the 2011 Cruze. 

It is worth noting that Honda and Toyota quality has suffered in recent years. To claim that they have very few problems is simply not true. Many have noted a strange phenomenon regarding Toyota and Honda owners; they will write off more failures as "expected" or "normal," while they will throw a fit when it happens to an American car. Those two car companies are still riding on the "can do no wrong" reputation wave that they rightfully earned themselves in the 90s and early 2000s, but that distortion field is fading and they simply do not make the same cars they used to make.


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm pretty sure your credibility was not questioned. You have to admit, it is a bit awkward to see someone with over 500 posts on this forum that never owned and most likely never will own a Cruze.


FWIW, although it's not at the top of my list, I haven't ruled out a Volt. Depending on my future needs and commute, I may end up buying or leasing one. :O


XtremeRevolution said:


> CR's credibility on this forum has been absolutely destroyed. There is no point in bringing up any references to CR. They have gone out of their way to discredit themselves as of late and are quite possibly one of the worst sources of automotive information available. The reasons why we avoid all discussion of CR reviews are endless and have very little to do with their review of the 2011 Cruze.
> 
> It is worth noting that Honda and Toyota quality has suffered in recent years. To claim that they have very few problems is simply not true. Many have noted a strange phenomenon regarding Toyota and Honda owners; they will write off more failures as "expected" or "normal," while they will throw a fit when it happens to an American car. Those two car companies are still riding on the "can do no wrong" reputation wave that they rightfully earned themselves in the 90s and early 2000s, but that distortion field is fading and they simply do not make the same cars they used to make.


I totally disagree w/your claims about CR, but anyhow, it's not surprising that you still hold those views and we've already been thru those arguments many times. It to me is no coincidence and no surprise that the trouble spots I pointed out are rather familiar here. OP can choose to ignore them.

As for your claims about Honda, I can't speak either way to those other than I know very few people w/problem Toyotas and Hondas. 

Of those w/GM and VW vehicles, I know # of folks who have/had problem examples of those. As for Toyota, drop by Priuschat sometime. You'll see people complain about stuff failing too. We don't all dismiss problems.

One of my friends who had a 97 Camry long ago, before he totaled it in an accident complained that his Camry was "unreliable" and that his Civic never had such problems. He said his Camry sometimes wouldn't start. Thru probing, I still never found out what the cause was (I suspected it was hard to start and he flooded the engine) and I don't think he ever had the issue fixed. That was all, and he called it "unreliable"!

If he had some of the experiences some problem Cruze owners have had here, he'd be PISSED. I would be too. NONE of our Japanese cars have in their much longer timespan and mileage have had as much trouble as some of the problem Cruzes I've seen here.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

cwerdna said:


> That is correct. Doesn't make my experiences describing other vehicles that I or my parents have/had any less valid.





XtremeRevolution said:


> I'm pretty sure your credibility was not questioned. You have to admit, it is a bit awkward to see someone with over 500 posts on this forum that never owned and most likely never will own a Cruze.


Definitely, I'm not questioning your credibility about the Camry whatsoever. It sounds like you are much more well versed in it than I'll ever be, and I thank you for sharing your experiences about it for the OP. I did see exactly what XR pointed out though, 500 posts on a forum not about your car. In fact, post count really didn't matter much.

I mean, when I'm bored or investigating something that fancies me, I don't go over or even think about going over to other forums of things I don't have or have interest in just to post about what I do have. Nothing wrong with the opinions you have about the Cruze, but it's just peculiar since this is a Cruze forum. That is all.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> That a V6 or the special edition SE 4-banger? Those are definitely V6 wheels, and they look fantastic.
> 
> I agree with what obermd said...the manual Cruze >>> automatic for getting the power down to the road from the little engine. It's down on power between 50-70, but highway power in top gear is actually excellent. I went from 62-75 on the highway today just flooring the gas in 6th...without even realizing it. It really drives a lot like the 2.4 in my mom's 2007 Accord. Those are fantastic engines in the Accords...once you get the revs up. Contrary to that, the Cruze has a ton of low-end power and starts to run out of breath above 4,000 RPM.


You've got a sharp eye! That is indeed a 2012 special edition SE with the 18" V6 wheels. It's one someone traded for another car that's got 4000 miles on it, so they were willing to lend that out as a loaner. 

Doesn't make sense to me why someone would take the hit on trading in a BRAND NEW car like that, but hey...not my money. I'd just make sure I was happy with what I was buying in the first place. 

I've seen all the comments about a manual, but I just don't want a manual. On good days, it takes me 45 min-1 hr to commute to/from work. On bad days, it has taken me up to 2-3. I don't want to be stuck in a traffic in a manual. I also drive a good bit for work. I would love to have one on the weekends, but it's impractical for me otherwise. 

I tried playing around with the Cruze's transmission a bit, but it just didn't seem to like being pushed too much. It seemed a small bit better in manual mode where I could push the gas down and keep it from revving like crazy by shifting gears on my own, but I just don't think the power is really there once it runs out of grunt from the lower gears. 

While Honda's reliability may be down in recent years, I believe the Accord continues to be one of the most reliable models. Most people I've heard of problems drive a Civic or a CRV. Our Accord has been rock-solid - I've literally had to do nothing - aside from a wheel bearing - but change the oil and put brakes/tires on it, and we're hoping that the 2013 will be as well. That's definitely a go for us to replace the 2003.


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Another thing I've noticed - compared to my Explorer's very smooth transmission, both of these 6-speeds are very busy transmissions and the shifts are pretty noticeable. I guess they have to keep busy trying to get the most power out of a 4-cylinder engine. 

I remember driving 4-cylinders 10-15 years ago. They were not something you wanted to go near with a 3 or 4-speed automatic transmission.


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## RyanPatty (Sep 28, 2012)

with every car your going to get a lemon and sorry to say you got one. I have had my car 7 months and put 22,000 km on it and no issues whats so ever. This is my first new car and love it.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

If you use this forum to claim that Cruze is unreliable than you have a problem. Mostly people with an issue post on here to try to get a resolution and so you get problem cars discussed. My 6 month old cruze has no issues, transmission works great, only area where I could complain would be turbo lag at low speeds in my diesel but all I have to do, if this were to worry me, and it doesn't, is move my shift leaver to the left and pick the right gear early. Once over about 15 KPH the problem goes away anyway. This is not a design fault just too few revs to spin up the turbo, the manual would not even notice it. If you want a sports car buy one, if you want reliable transport buy what suits you and leave other peoples choices alone.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

jimmyboy said:


> Another thing I've noticed - compared to my Explorer's very smooth transmission, both of these 6-speeds are very busy transmissions and the shifts are pretty noticeable. I guess they have to keep busy trying to get the most power out of a 4-cylinder engine.
> 
> I remember driving 4-cylinders 10-15 years ago. They were not something you wanted to go near with a 3 or 4-speed automatic transmission.


What are you talking about? The smoothness of a transmission has more to do with the application if bands and clutches than it does the motor pushing it. 


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The last GM 4 cylinder I drove was a Corsica rental in Puerto Rico about 10 years ago. The engine sounded like it was straining just to get out of the parking garage at the hotel. The last GM 4 cylinder I had to deal with long term was the Pontiac Sunbird my wife owned when we got married 25 years ago. The Corsica had the same engine. The Ecotec engine was definitely not designed by the same people.

As for CR, my personal experience over the last 20+ years is exactly opposite of CR's recommendations. Based on this I do NOT trust CR to review cars.


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## Coolnate32 (May 15, 2011)

I have actually had 2 Cruze's, a 3rd if you count my fiances right now. I love Gm and loved the Cruze but the cars sure did have some issues. I have a identical Camry to the one you posted but in black and I love it. I had: 

'11 2Lt Auto. I liked the car, day I got it window busted out and broken into can't blame the car but it still sucked. Then at 700 miles I had a bad thermostat and the car overheated in a bad area, definitely did not make me too happy. The dealer fixed it, so I can't really complain. 

'12 LS Auto. I really liked this car. The LS always gets a lot of bad reviews but I never had a problem with the 1.8 and averaged the same mpg as the LT. I eventually traded it in on my Camry because I wanted a bigger car with more bells and whistles. 

My fiancé has a '12 LT and she has taken it in at least 5 times for a leaking sunroof, steering wheel buttons breaking, little things. Sunroof still leaks. 

I really don't have any complaints about the Cruze so I'm not trying to be negative. But if your getting both cars for similar prices definitely go for the camry. 0 problems , same mpg, way way more room someone can actually sit behind you in the back. Better resale value, Cruze drops at least 8,000 first year off of MSRP I'm guessing because there are so many rentals. For the 14,000 I got the LS it was a great car, but I can't believe how many people on here pay 25,000 + for a Cruze. Just my two cents. 


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Aussie said:


> If you use this forum to claim that Cruze is unreliable than you have a problem. Mostly people with an issue post on here to try to get a resolution and so you get problem cars discussed. My 6 month old cruze has no issues, transmission works great, only area where I could complain would be turbo lag at low speeds in my diesel but all I have to do, if this were to worry me, and it doesn't, is move my shift leaver to the left and pick the right gear early. Once over about 15 KPH the problem goes away anyway. This is not a design fault just too few revs to spin up the turbo, the manual would not even notice it. If you want a sports car buy one, if you want reliable transport buy what suits you and leave other peoples choices alone.


The NA Cruze seems to be having the most issues.


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## cwerdna (Mar 10, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Many have noted a strange phenomenon regarding Toyota and Honda owners; they will write off more failures as "expected" or "normal," while they will throw a fit when it happens to an American car. Those two car companies are still riding on the "can do no wrong" reputation wave that they rightfully earned themselves in the 90s and early 2000s, but that distortion field is fading and they simply do not make the same cars they used to make.


 BTW, I thought about this more and I don't buy that logic at all. 

Why would those w/American cars "throw a fit" when something goes wrong and not w/Honda or Toyotas? Shouldn't the Honda and Toyota people expect "perfection" and/or few/no problems, thus be more likely to "throw a fit" if there are problems? 

And, for American car buyers, since they "expect" problems or don't expect perfection (vs. Toyota's/Honda's rep), they to me would be more likely to dismiss problems as normal/expected/par for the course.

It sounds just like the arguments Bob Lutz has recently made on TV (don't have the interview handy) where he claimed a similar bias that you assert being built into CR ratings, the bias favoring Japanese cars being in those who answer the surveys, not necessarily CR itself. 

I wish I had the video clip handy showing GM execs and CEOs for YEARS (way before Wagoner and going back to Bob Stempel or earlier), where they'd always say things like "GM cars are every bit as good as their foreign competitors..." or something to that effect. 

FWIW, Consumer Reports named the Prius c the most reliable car (Japanese brands tops in Consumer Reports' 2012 Car Reliability Survey, Ford continues fall and Consumer Reports names most reliable cars - (1) - CNNMoney) even though they don't like the car and don't recommend it: The Toyota Prius C isn't a good car, and here's why (which came before the reliability results). That's pretty impressive considering the '12 model year was its first model year. 

But again... if one is dismissive of their reliability results... And, this doesn't help the OP anyway. It's not in the same size or interior quality class as either the Cruze or Camry.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

In my experience, *all* owners or renters or temporary users of *anything* throw childish hissy fits when they don't work as expected, it is not restricted to cars!

And remember, *expected* may bear no relation to what the thing is actually meant to do!!!!


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Well, I've made my decision. It was definitely a tough one. Thanks to everyone here for being a lot more level-headed than the guys on the Toyota forums. You wouldn't believe how arrogant and narrow-minded some of them sounded. There were a few responses like that here, but almost every reply on this same topic there, I got the typical, "your Found-On-Road-Dead Exploder was reliable???" kinda BS from them, along with the preconceptions that any American car is a POS. Guess I'll have to look around for a better forum if I want some kinda help with things.

My first experience with a GM vehicle, particularly the Cruze, has proven that not to be the case. The Cruze is a very good car, and I will definitely recommend it, as well as Cruzetalk, to others.

Truth be told, I would like to have both. The Cruze in a stick shift (drove one just for the heck of it, and I had a blast), and the Toyota in the automatic. But, all that aside, as this is a car that I will likely own 10 years just like the last one, I'm going to go with the Camry. While it's not *as* fun to drive as the Cruze is, I believe that I will not feel like I'm compromising as much on some things that I would like with the Camry and that I feel like I would hate myself/the car later on down the road for. In short, the power and storage space inside the car are two major things for me. The Toyota's transmission also just feels like it knows what it's doing - put your foot down, it takes off immediately. I would also like a car that seems to be the best I can get for reliability, and I believe that would mean sticking with the Toyota that has been around, in some form or another, for a few years. I only wish that the Toyota was as quiet with as good of a ride as the Cruze is out on the highway. The Cruze rides on rough roads like a much more expensive car than it is like my mother's Acura RL. 

Once again, thank you all for your help. Happy Cruzing.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I had a feeling you would go for the Camry, just because you seemed to put a decent amount of value on power and space, something the Cruze doesn't quite have a whole lot of. The Camry is no doubt a much bigger car. 

I greatly commend you for doing your research on the topic and acknowledging the strengths and weaknesses of both cars. The ride quality of the Cruze is one reason so many of us love it. I hope you have a great experience with your new Camry, and congrats on the purchase!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Congratulations sir. What color will you be getting?

Personally, I think you made the right decision. I was driving my gf's yesterday and thinking how much I love that it can take off or accelerate quickly into traffic without feeling like it's already giving me everything it's got. It really is a fantastic 4-cylinder. But I agree, the Cruze definitely has better road manners. However, throw the Camry at a few corners - hard - and you might very well be impressed with it. I know I was - especially for something that had the name "Camry" on it. Her old 2002 Camry drove like a land yacht.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Thank you for taking the time to honestly evaluate both. I can understand that car buying decisions can be tough. My wife has a Toyota Solara Convertible that she absolutely loves.


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## DrVette (Dec 6, 2011)

It's nice a level-headed consumer who values other opinions.

Good Luck


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## The_Madcat (Oct 6, 2012)

cwerdna said:


> BTW, I thought about this more and I don't buy that logic at all.
> 
> Why would those w/American cars "throw a fit" when something goes wrong and not w/Honda or Toyotas? Shouldn't the Honda and Toyota people expect "perfection" and/or few/no problems, thus be more likely to "throw a fit" if there are problems?
> 
> ...


I think you are reading his post incorrectly. You basically stated later what he did in his post. _Toyota owners will call it "expected or normal" when it happens to the Toyota but the same Toyota owner will have a fit when it happens to their other "American" cars._ At least that is the way it read to me and in your re-iteration.

And you can toss around all the CR findings you want on this forum, they are pretty much been proven throughout the site to be less than factual and biased heh. CR is pretty much = trash talk around here.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

I've got over 50k miles on my 2012 Eco w/6MT ... and I've had 2 issues with my car: First, the struts which have an original TSB and a further update after a slight problem was discovered after the initial fix action wasn't quite right. Second problem I encountered was a water pump replacement around 40K+ miles. Other than thoses 2 items, I have had NO issues with my cruze. I did not like the OE tires and got rid of them ASAP, replaced with Michelin MXV4s. Car feels MUCH better on the road now and I feel safe driving in the rain, unlike on the goodyears. I'm actually looking at upgrading to a 2013 Cruze Eco soon!


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Not about to read eleven pages of responses, Corolla is the car that competes with the Cruze. Find a Toyotatalk board like this one, to read about all the problems with these things, and go there.

While you are at it, take a trip to Japan to learn how that greedy corporation is outsourcing their work at the cost of the average Japanese worker.

Not to sound racists, that white guy you deal with at your dealer has to answer to a yellow guy that determines the outcome of your warranty repairs. Maybe better in your neck of the woods, sure bad around here.

Toyota is still being sued by our government for not disclosing well known defects, really don't like to deal with a company like that.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Corolla = junk. A refresh is due next year. The interior looks pretty nice. 

What's race got to do with it?

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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

NickD said:


> Not about to read eleven pages of responses, Corolla is the car that competes with the Cruze. Find a Toyotatalk board like this one, to read about all the problems with these things, and go there.
> 
> While you are at it, take a trip to Japan to learn how that greedy corporation is outsourcing their work at the cost of the average Japanese worker.
> 
> ...



That sounded completely racist. Who cares what race is involved in a business transaction? It shouldn't be a factor in today's society.


The deal goes both ways. "American" cars sold over seas all have people of many different colors answering to us over here on the same issues. You can't point the finger at Toyota with a set blinders on towards our own companies here.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Aeroscout977 said:


> That sounded completely racist. Who cares what race is involved in a business transaction? It shouldn't be a factor in today's society.
> 
> 
> The deal goes both ways. "American" cars sold over seas all have people of many different colors answering to us over here on the same issues. You can't point the finger at Toyota with a set blinders on towards our own companies here.


I too would never think of race in a business transaction. Culture, perhaps, but race? One would hope our society has moved past that.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## Ben Jammin (Dec 12, 2012)

Stay away from the Camry, they are so God awfully ugly looking and the simple fact that they're an import should be enough of a turn off. I have a beautiful Cruze with no problems yet and she turns heads! The Camry will turn heads too but only because people want a second look at all the ugly. The guy that said treat it like an economy car is right, the Cruze is not a sports car yet 80% of this forum has them tuned and stats posted for their 0-60 times... She'll treat you right if you treat her right


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## Ben Jammin (Dec 12, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I too would never think of race in a business transaction. Culture, perhaps, but race? One would hope our society has moved past that.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


It's not about race, it's about economy I think. Domestics won't be back to the way they were until more Americans start buying them again


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## Epickphale (Jan 30, 2013)

Exactly what everyone else has said here... The one thing you can do with your Cruze that will screw it up is try to drive it like a sports car... took a few tight yellows lately and the transmission is starting to adapt to my aggressive driving making gentler driving shift harsher. Lesson learned there. Drive it like a four door econobox and itl be a great little car. Driven the Camry and the Corolla... nice safe feel. Too safe though. No real FUN I found. Dont read no power because Im sure the stats arent in the Cruze's favour but they just dont feel as fun. Styling is too... generic. I'm kind of biased here as many are (hmm... Cruze owners being biased towards their own cars?! blasphemy!) but I would buy another Cruze in a heartbeat. Also please dont read into my gas numbers posted below... drove like a dink for the majority of my last tank.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Ben Jammin said:


> It's not about race, it's about economy I think. Domestics won't be back to the way they were until more Americans start buying them again


Which takes providing a product that will turn their attentions away from other companies. Currently 4 of the top 5 most American made cars belong to Honda and Toyota. A Chevy Van is the only "domestic" in the group. Brand doesn't matter. If GM makes more cars like the Cruze I think things can turn. Only time can tell really.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aeroscout977 said:


> Which takes providing a product that will turn their attentions away from other companies. Currently 4 of the top 5 most American made cars belong to Honda and Toyota. A Chevy Van is the only "domestic" in the group. Brand doesn't matter. If GM makes more cars like the Cruze I think things can turn. Only time can tell really.


Exactly. Make a genuinely good and reliable car, people will buy it. People that care *only* about the brand or where it's being made are narrow-minded. 

There's a reason why the F-150, Camry, and Accord have been the top-selling vehicles on the market for many, many years. They're all just a good product.

The new Fusion is a good car, and the Cruze is a good car. Both really struggle with their weight with the top-end highway power of their turbocharged engines, but they mask it in-town by being busy with the transmissions and relying on the low-down power in the RPM range. Chevy needs a better Malibu to compete, and Ford needs a better Focus. 

BTW, drove the Accord Sport the other day. It beats the Camry (and Cruze) hands-down in a fun-to-drive way. Honda knows how to make a real gem of an engine when they try, and it never feels strained with the weight of the car. In the typical Accord way, though, they've given up ride comfort for instant turn-in and driving dynamics. I kinda want one.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Honda also gave up affordability with the Accord over the Cruze. A base model with a manual starts at $21,680.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I dunno. A 1LT with the technology and convenience packages would be about the same $21,000. 

Once you start adding options onto the Cruze (or any other car for that matter), it quickly becomes overpriced. I think the Sport is a good deal at $23k. There is no way the V6 is worth $33k though, or a loaded LTZ is worth $26k. That value tanks easily $5000 as soon as you walk away with the car. 

I'm still not sure i like the dash. Too reminiscent of the 08-12 Accords that I despise. I like the interior on my Cruze and the Camry much better. I could get over it for how well it drives though. The auto magazines love it too. 

Hmm...maybe in a few years. Still upside down on my Cruze payment anyway. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## jimmyboy (Jul 10, 2012)

Haha wow, this thread is still kicking, eh?

For what it's worth, I drove a 2012 V6 SE Camry and bought the car right there after the test drive. I love it, and it still gets 26 mpg so far (32 on a highway trip we took last week). I didn't want the compromise that I felt like I would have been taking by going with a 4-cylinder, and this engine is great!

My wife has the 2013 Accord Sport mentioned above, and she loves it. It's really very fun to drive, but I too like the Camry's interior better.

Now, the good news...for you guys. My brother-in-law was looking for a small car for his commute, and I recommended that he take a look at a Cruze. He's ordering a blue 2LT manual next week! I've recommended your forum to him because it's still the best I've found in this new-car search.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Glad to hear you found the car for you! Even if it isn't a Cruze. 

I hope your BIL's new Cruze meets his expectations for it, also!


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

IMO Camry's are boring.

Anyone who swears Honda's and Toyota's are perfect and domestics are junk are just closed minded to me.

Domestics were pretty crappy. They were crap for a long time. Imports ate their lunch, dinner and desert all through the late 70's, 80's, 90's and most of the 2000's.

Today, I have to say in a lot of ways some domestics are BETTER than the Jap cars.

Too bad it'll take decades to make up for the reputation the domestic builders have made for them selves over the last few decades.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Nobody is saying that Toyota and Honda are perfect, they just do hold up better in terms of reliability and dependability. The Corolla and Camary hardly ever have any issues, in bulk anyways.


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## Toyotech (Aug 17, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Exactly. Make a genuinely good and reliable car, people will buy it. People that care *only* about the brand or where it's being made are narrow-minded.
> 
> There's a reason why the F-150, Camry, and Accord have been the top-selling vehicles on the market for many, many years. They're all just a good product.
> 
> ...


If the accord was out when i purchased the cruze i honestly think i would have went that route, they are a nice drive and the price is not far off. I opted for a 2lt with leather/heated seats smart key and remote start...total price was just over 23k. They are very nice.

to op, congrats on the purchase. You should love the car, i know i still do and even though it's an auto i still have a blast with it through the paddle shifters on the se.

on another note i know the toyota sites are rather cut throat and it's sometimes tough to get info so if you need any assistance of have a concern just send me a msg and i'll try and help you out.


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