# Factory LSD



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Unfortunately many many cars today don't come with a LSD. i account this to bean counters as well as a market shift. most people now a days want fancy 4g lte and Bluetooth vs a solid car that's a bit simpler but more rewarding to drive. the cruze in all its forms except for diesel don't exactly need a lsd but i do think that there are people out there who would pay an extra bit for a lsd. This electronic LSD by means of brakes and throttle works for a daily mom van driver but for us sport guys its absolutely annoying to one wheel peel. i also believe its a safety issue not having a LSD, this is very true when you live in areas like Florida that always have sand on the road.

who here would have checked a 500$ box for a clutch type LSD or even a torsion lsd? i would pay 500$ for it


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Call me old, but when I see "LSD" my mind goes somewhere else ....


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

haha yah to some it means other stuff. both are very fun or so ive heard.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I would've checked a $1500 option box for a LSD. The difference limited slip makes in snow is insane.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

it should come on the diesel and rs packs stock. like you said money man i would have paid a lot for one. i hate how our society as car buyers no longer want manuals and don't care for LSD. Maybe some of us don't want to buy a silverado or a camaro/vett to get a LSD maybe some of us like our cruze or Malibu with a LSD so we can drive in sandy roads, snow, or just have a little more fun


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## _MerF_ (Mar 24, 2015)

Besides the northern states with inclement winters, LSD would be a rather expensive and somewhat useless add-on to me. A FWD with LSD is not a very enjoyable drive...borderline unsafe for someone not expecting it.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

I've owned several vehicles with them...dramatically improved traction...not just in snow...but rain and dry roads as well as those with sand or dirt on them. I would order it on any vehicle its an option on.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

On a Cruze? Not worth it.

On something like a Focus ST? Sure.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> On a Cruze? Not worth it.
> 
> On something like a Focus ST? Sure.


 Ever drive a diesel Cruze long? Those things are desperately clawing for traction on dry pavement with the traction control turned off. And you don't even have to be an overly aggressive driver. Never drove a gasser Cruze so I can't compare.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

boneheaddoctor said:


> Ever drive a diesel Cruze long? Those things are desperately clawing for traction on dry pavement with the traction control turned off. And you don't even have to be an overly aggressive driver. Never drove a gasser Cruze so I can't compare.


The crappy LRR Eco tires aren't doing it any favors - flooring a gas Eco from a stop achieves tons of wheelspin too. 

I had a FWD car with about the same torque output as the CTD, never really felt that it needed one at that power level. Having driven a tuned one making 320 ft lbs and 280 hp, I felt that needed it, and they did indeed offer it in the higher performance variant of that car, before going to an AWD system.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> The crappy LRR Eco tires aren't doing it any favors - flooring a gas Eco from a stop achieves tons of wheelspin too.
> 
> I had a FWD car with about the same torque output as the CTD, never really felt that it needed one at that power level. Having driven a tuned one making 320 ft lbs and 280 hp, I felt that needed it, and they did indeed offer it in the higher performance variant of that car, before going to an AWD system.



True but you make the most of what you have available with it. 

Might not matter to a lot of drivers though....I like to have that extra margin of traction, etc, available if I ever need it. Drive enough miles and can make the difference between getting out of a sticky situation or not.

Not as good as an AWD system...but lighter...and cheaper. 

The only vehicle I've ever owned I have felt it would not have mattered on....was a 1968 Fiat 500. 
With a whopping 17 hp at the crank...it didn't have enough power to spin ONE tire in the rain on slippery glass smooth Italian roads.
.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Don't get me wrong, I like LSDs, and have them in everyone of my RWD vehicles. But the weight + mechanical complexity + low take-up rate = no dice in any Cruze. 

Even the northstar powered FWD Cadillacs did not have LSD. 

And on ATS, for example, it's only available on the premium package. 

For the rest of us, and in most situations, traction control does a reasonable job of emulating LSD.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

yes the cruze may not need it but i would have paid for it. even on dry climates a LSD drives much nicer in and more controllable. 



> borderline unsafe for someone not expecting


yah i disagree 100% a lsd car is easier to control then open diff. unless you are pushing the car in acceleration on bad traction or turning hard the driver wont notice its there and it will help them keep in control silently and without them knowing


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## _MerF_ (Mar 24, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> yes the cruze may not need it but i would have paid for it. even on dry climates a LSD drives much nicer in and more controllable.
> 
> 
> yah i disagree 100% a lsd car is easier to control then open diff. unless you are pushing the car in acceleration on bad traction or turning hard the driver wont notice its there and it will help them keep in control silently and without them knowing


Well that's my point. If you are expecting the wheel to fight you because you are an experienced driver pushing the limits then it's great. But if you're Joe Businessman renting a Cruze on a work trip and you go to accelerate hard into traffic and hit some sand and the opposite wheel grabs suddenly and yanks the wheel out of your hand...no bueno.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

LSD does not snap at you like that, it is tied to the other wheel it will limit slip not a sudden grab (Now a lsd can be tied in with traction control and this helps any snap steer due to driver inability). my point is that it should be offered of more vehicles and pushed more on the sales floor. lets bring back a little more fun into our commuter cars. look at the dodge omni Shelby GLH. yes it was an economy car but it was offered with some fun in it! if the current cruze came with a SS i would have defiantly looked into it.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

It's an unnecessary added expense to economy cars which have already become more and more expensive than they used to be 10 years ago. Electronic traction control via brakes is much, much cheaper and can do the same job, and can actually be tuned quite well and let you have a bit of fun with it if the engineers bother (again, Focus ST example).

The price of vehicles these days is ballooning out of control for their respective classes. $29K+ for a loaded Cruze with a LSD and <200 HP? No thanks.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> let you have a bit of fun with it if the engineers bother (again, Focus ST example).


it boils down to that. with GM having to pay benefits and retirement + Government making us install all these expensive emissions system to the diesel + inflation i agree cars have gone up in price substantially.i would kill for a dodge Shelby omni GLHS. good MPG, easy to park and it smoked big v8s of the time. heck that lil 2.2 turbo 4 makes more whp considerably then the new 1.4 and is way way easier to fix. with today's added complexity of MPG safety and emissions plus consumer demand for champagne cars on beer income the market has inflated


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Yep..Torque steer is significantly less with LSD...and if you have ever been caught in Black ice...or freezing rain..(something that happens in southern states too) you quickly discover the sort comings of "Traction control"

At least with LSD you can get one wheel on the shoulder and move....with "Traction control" if one wheel is on ice...it kills power so much the car won't even move...and with it off...all you do is spin. 

First car I dealt with that on was a 1996 Saturn SL2. Really crappy brakes...but otherwise loved the car.

I can understand it not being Standard Equipment....Cost reasons would drive up the base price. But having it as an availible option....that's something I'd love to see on almost everything.

My truck has a locker in the rear end...(sort of the ultimate LSD)...and I am considering a LSD for the front axle. 

If you manage to get THAT stuck with both....then you really deserve the humiliation of being stuck. ON the road anyway.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm actually reasonably happy with how the TC works on both of our cars - certainly much better than it was in my 1998 model year car where it was practically useless. The Cruze will let you squeal tires or spin a little bit in snow in first gear before it kicks in. It does cut back, HARD, in 2nd gear on the throttle, though, which has run me out of power on gravel roads. Dropping back to first gear just spins tires in gravel.

The Camry actually seems to have an even better TC system that will allow you some wheelspin, but brakes the spinning tire without cutting power back very much. Climbed it out of a snow-covered parking space it was stuck in pretty good by turning TC back ON last year. With the system off, all it did was spin. With it back on, the front brakes were throwing a fit, but it climbed right out of it with very little drama. Works well going forwards too.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> I'm actually reasonably happy with how the TC works on both of our cars - certainly much better than it was in my 1998 model year car where it was practically useless. The Cruze will let you squeal tires or spin a little bit in snow in first gear before it kicks in. It does cut back, HARD, in 2nd gear on the throttle, though, which has run me out of power on gravel roads. Dropping back to first gear just spins tires in gravel.
> 
> The Camry actually seems to have an even better TC system that will allow you some wheelspin, but brakes the spinning tire without cutting power back very much. Climbed it out of a snow-covered parking space it was stuck in pretty good by turning TC back ON last year. With the system off, all it did was spin. With it back on, the front brakes were throwing a fit, but it climbed right out of it with very little drama. Works well going forwards too.


while yes the new TCS is leaps and bounds form the old days its still no replacement for a real LSD.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

It's not a waste. It would significantly help me get up my hill in winter


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## Overspray (Jun 16, 2014)

Is there an aftermarket LSD for our cars? Might be worth while to have it swapped. I definitely wouldn't mind it with my diesel, especially once tuned.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I to my knowledge don't believe there is an aftermarket lsd


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## [email protected] (Dec 3, 2015)

I agree, should have came with LSD or at least a option. Especially when someone actually does get some really good power out of one of these. When a LSD would do wonders.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Exactly, they are a huge help and add to the driving experience


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

for a fwd econobox, no


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I haven't driven my CTD in snow, but while a LSD would be nice, I have in 3.5 years never been in a situation where the TC wasn't sufficient. 

The other day I was travelling at 110kph with cruise control on while it was raining heavily, when I hit a puddle of deepish water on the freeway. The car pulled slightly to the left, nothing problematic, and the cruise switched off. I have never had this happen before so I suppose it was the stability cutting in. All was good when I turned it back on, anybody else have this happen?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> I haven't driven my CTD in snow, but while a LSD would be nice, I have in 3.5 years never been in a situation where the TC wasn't sufficient.
> 
> The other day I was travelling at 110kph with cruise control on while it was raining heavily, when I hit a puddle of deepish water on the freeway. The car pulled slightly to the left, nothing problematic, and the cruse switched off. I have never had this happen before so I suppose it was the stability cutting in. All was good when I turned it back on, anybody else have this happen?


Not on the Cruze, but my Volvo would cancel the cruise control if one wheel slipped too.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Cruise control cutting out when stabilitrac or traction control activating is documented in my owner's manual.

Annoying as heck.


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## GlennGlenn (Nov 27, 2015)

Aussie said:


> I haven't driven my CTD in snow, but while a LSD would be nice, I have in 3.5 years never been in a situation where the TC wasn't sufficient.
> 
> The other day I was travelling at 110kph with cruise control on while it was raining heavily, when I hit a puddle of deepish water on the freeway. The car pulled slightly to the left, nothing problematic, and the cruise switched off. I have never had this happen before so I suppose it was the stability cutting in. All was good when I turned it back on, anybody else have this happen?





obermd said:


> Cruise control cutting out when stabilitrac or traction control activating is documented in my owner's manual.
> 
> Annoying as heck.


ironically, funny you mention this @Aussie . I have several AMG s and if you turn TC off ( called ESP), they do not allow cruise control to work. So you basically have to have ESP on ( activated) for cruise control. They work in sync.

Ive found that electronic TC is a very poor substitute for a Quaife differential ( or awd for that matter) the difference in performance is like night and day with a limited slip diff. Electronic TC cuts power too much to be effective on high HP or tq cars like the diesel CTD. Shame it's not an option. With AMG in most cars it was/is a $2000 option and one well worth it.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

i rather rely on a mechanical LSD then fancy computer controlled traction control. traction control may be acting as a lsd but again its ACTING as a lsd and is not one. a true lsd would make the car so much better in the cruze if it didn't have the stupid torque limiting/ manager, heck it would be outright fun with no tq management and a true mechanical lsd


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## _MerF_ (Mar 24, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> i rather rely on a mechanical LSD then fancy computer controlled traction control. traction control may be acting as a lsd but again its ACTING as a lsd and is not one. a true lsd would make the car so much better in the cruze if it didn't have the stupid torque limiting/ manager, heck it would be outright fun with no tq management and a true mechanical lsd


But again, this car isn't marketed for the driving experience. It would be silly to add that cost to a car that the average consumer not only doesn't need, but probably would say the car "drives funny" because they don't expect the car to act that way when a tire slips.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

again it would be an option, cobalt was a economy car and we did a SS version, trailblazer was just a plain jane suv it has a SS version, malibu was a plain jane economy car and it has a SS


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Back in my College days I had a 1973 Olds Cutlass "S" basically the lowest cheapest version. Power steering and nothing else. Bench seat...and it had a factory limited slip differential.

Traction control works by cutting power and applying brakes to the wheel with less traction. VS splitting traction between both wheels. Get one wheel in the air or on ice and all bets are off with it.

I get the arguments from several members that this isn't a performance car and I'm not arguing it is. A LSD of any type does serve a purpose far beyond the drag strip however. It it will make the difference between walking from or driving from difficult traction situations. Driver skill and finesse can only get you so far combine those with Limited slip. Your chances greatly improve. Your long wait for a tow MIGHT be during a severe weather event (making a long wait much longer if one arrives at all)...and MIGHT put you in danger.

Does everyone NEED it? No, does everyone want it? No. If it was yes you would see it as standard equipment. But its a fantastic option...and far more useful than most options are.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

If it were even offered as an option with any of the existing engines, they'd probably sell about 10 of them because people wouldn't pay the extra price. The rest of them would sit on lots unsold, and then it would go the way of the 2LT 6M and fade into nonexistence.

Give a Cruzen more power, like the Cobalt SS (likely won't happen), sure, it becomes a viable option that really helps it put down power in corners. My high powered FWD constantly lit up the inside tire exiting corners when the turbo spooled.


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## GlennGlenn (Nov 27, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> If it were even offered as an option with any of the existing engines, they'd probably sell about 10 of them because people wouldn't pay the extra price. The rest of them would sit on lots unsold, and then it would go the way of the 2LT 6M and fade into nonexistence.
> 
> Give a Cruzen more power, like the Cobalt SS (likely won't happen), sure, it becomes a viable option that really helps it put down power in corners. My high powered FWD constantly lit up the inside tire exiting corners when the turbo spooled.



Actually, the take rate for high performance vehicles is near 100% if it's optional, so to them it's a sine qua non for the vehicle. I'd take it for $500 bucks in a heartbeat, but I do see your argument . I had a Neon ACR with a fwd Torsen and it was phenomenal out of corners. 

Ragardless if whether it's stick or auto as you reference above, a LSD is really something that's required on even high tq small displacement diesel cars like the CTD. But I agree, not gonna happen. So essentially, we're left with a one wheel driver


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

its marketing, if the salesman says " hey you drive in icy conditions?" well then maybe this traction package that adds a lsd might be right for you, its an extra 600$ but when your pushing the car hard or in bad slippery conditions it will help keep you under control. im sure people would buy it, all the nay sayers here are saying no because of price, well a lsd option will not jack the price up 5,000$ here. maybe just maybe 600$ more and again its a option


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> its marketing, if the salesman says " hey you drive in icy conditions?" well then maybe this traction package that adds a lsd might be right for you, its an extra 600$ but when your pushing the car hard or in bad slippery conditions it will help keep you under control. im sure people would buy it, all the nay sayers here are saying no because of price, well a lsd option will not jack the price up 5,000$ here. maybe just maybe 600$ more and again its a option


Yep, but add $500 to the cost of a fully loaded Diesel, and you're well into AWD midsized/crossover territory if you drive in snow/icy conditions, usually with more interior room and power under the hood as well. 

The market the Cruze competes in is ENTIRELY about price and bang-for-the-buck in features compared to other cars. Between something like a Ford Fusion SE AWD and a Cruze Diesel with LSD, I'd take the Fusion.

I'm not against LSDs - I just think they should be put in appropriate vehicles. Trucks (the 2WD Colorado/Canyon have a high take-rate where it is offered as an option) and sports cars, for example.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

How do you figure that a lsd diesel will be in the awd midsize market? not one of those cars gets 46 mpg so the cruze still stands out so for the $ you get a lot and better mpg. the cruze sells a lot of sport cruzes or known as the RS pack, 80% of the gasers are RS that have " Sport suspension" and sporty looks down here in Florida.

i could have afforded the cars you mentioned but i like the cruzes dimensions and not many offer its size thats just right with a diesel


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## _MerF_ (Mar 24, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> again it would be an option, cobalt was a economy car and we did a SS version, trailblazer was just a plain jane suv it has a SS version, malibu was a plain jane economy car and it has a SS


You've got a point...if they marketed an SS version of the Cruze, one could possibly expect an LSD. Notice all of those "SS" versions lived relatively short lives with modest, at best, sales numbers (except the Cobalt, which I think I saw more SS Cobalts than regular ones when I lived in Northern VA).

For that matter, was the Cobalt and Malibu SS optioned with LSD?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Cobalt SS's with the G85 package (from '05-'07, this also got you Recaro seats) have an LSD.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Was an option on the Cobalt SS. The Malibu SS was a dumb excuse for a SS car, they stuck an Impala 3.9 in it and called it good.

The Impala SS with the FWD V8 SHOULD have had one, as it did nothing but spin the sh!t out of the front tires when you got on the throttle.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> How do you figure that a lsd diesel will be in the awd midsize market? not one of those cars gets 46 mpg so the cruze still stands out so for the $ you get a lot and better mpg. the cruze sells a lot of sport cruzes or known as the RS pack, 80% of the gasers are RS that have " Sport suspension" and sporty looks down here in Florida.
> 
> i could have afforded the cars you mentioned but i like the cruzes dimensions and not many offer its size thats just right with a diesel


From a price standpoint, you're well into either of those arenas. MPG isn't a huge selling point right now as it was a few years ago since gas prices are low, but MPG on most cars is getting a lot better.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> was an option on the cobalt ss. The malibu ss was a dumb excuse for a ss car, they stuck an impala 3.9 in it and called it good.
> 
> The impala ss with the fwd v8 should have had one, as it did nothing but spin the sh!t out of the front tires when you got on the throttle.


defiantly agreed, the malibu was a poor excuse. Cobalt was nice besides the ricer wing and the trail blazer ss was very very nice. Reminds me of the ol jeep grand cherokee 5.9. Fastest suv production for a long time


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Cobalt SS could be had with the low-profile spoiler that I have from 2008 and on.

TBSSs are quite fantastic.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> tbsss are quite fantastic.


i would get one but a 5.9 jeep zj is about 3,500$ has double floating solid axles 4hi 4 low and 2hi.... Yah ill take the fast off and on road jeep


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> i would get one but a 5.9 jeep zj is about 3,500$ has double floating solid axles 4hi 4 low and 2hi.... Yah ill take the fast off and on road jeep


after replacing the shitty rear axle and shitty vc


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

actually the dana 44a if it was fixed at the dealer has long service life and is really strong axles when trussed. the vc can still be good at 250k miles if people weekly aired up tires and did 5 tire rotation. zj owners complain about the VC but honestly most of them have 225k miles and it just now failed... with all their abuse they lasted that long is great. 

now yes the zj would have been better of with a np231 or a nv 242 but ohh well. i swapped my 249 for a 232 and am way happier. sucks getting parts for the 44a but if it blows just swap in a dana 35 or a ford 8.8 lsd


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## GlennGlenn (Nov 27, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> defiantly agreed, the malibu was a poor excuse. Cobalt was nice besides the ricer wing and the trail blazer ss was very very nice. Re*minds me of the ol jeep grand cherokee 5.9. Fastest suv production for a long time*



Actually, the fastest production for 8 years was the ML55 AMG and then later the Srt8 in 08 and / or the ML63 in 08 and beyond. While quick , the JGC couldn't hold a candle to the MLs. The MLs had ESP which was defeatable entirely, not like the one on the cars which is still not entirely off when deactivated.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> Actually, the fastest production for 8 years was the ML55 AMG and then later the Srt8 in 08 and / or the ML63 in 08 and beyond. While quick , the JGC couldn't hold a candle to the MLs. The MLs had ESP which was defeatable entirely, not like the one on the cars which is still not entirely off when deactivated.


before the MB the jeep zj 5.9 was the record holder.


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