# Antifreeze Smell Thread V.2



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got some information finally regarding all of this that I can share with you guys. 

I had someone from GM's executive office in Detroit get in touch with me regarding the issue with my car, and she was very transparent with me regarding what the status of the issue is. I also talked to my contact in social media, and she gave me some insight as well. 

GM is aware of the problem; there's no doubt about that. However, they are also aware that it doesn't work for everyone and that many people are still having an issue with their car. As a result of that, they are currently working on a more permanent fix. This tube+glue fix that is available in a PI is not the final fix. For whatever reason, it may work for you or it may not. 

If you currently have the coolant smell issue in your car, you have two options:

1. Take your car in and get this PI service done on your vehicle
2. Wait until GM comes out with a permanent fix for it

I have opted not to get the current fix done as my issue is not anywhere near as severe as that of other members. My case executive will be sending me an update every month regarding the status of GM's progress with finding a fix for this issue, and will notify me when it is completed. My contact in Social Media is also in touch with Brand Quality and she will work with them to see where they are at with regard to status or progress on finding a permanent fix and making it available. She will let me know as soon as she gets more information. 

GM is being quite transparent about this issue and has given me the good-to-go to share this information with you guys. At this time, you can rest assured that GM is indeed aware that the current "fix" is not effective and they are working on a better one that will get rid of this problem.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Is there a way to subscribe to a Thread without posting on it? I want to follow this issue until it's resolved. I guess the point is moot now that I posted but for future Threads.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I would like to say I took my car in this week & they checked the system for leaks. None were found so they added the vent tube to the surge tank & upgraded engine compartment seals. I have driven about 100miles so far & have not had one wiff of antifreeze in the cabin. Both days were below 15degrees(today below zero) which normally would cause the smell the whole time once the car was at 180-230degrees. 

I still have smell under the hood & slight smell standing next to the car but as long as I can drive & breath freely I'm happy. I will watch my surge tank level to see if I loose any. I see the dealer filled to the arrow(it was always low), I added a couple inches a few thousand miles ago which seemed to have vented into the atmosphere. 

Overall I am happy but feel the car should not be loosing antifreeze or smelling even under the hood.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

spacedout said:


> I would like to say I took my car in this week & they checked the system for leaks. None were found so they added the vent tube to the surge tank & upgraded engine compartment seals. I have driven about 100miles so far & have not had one wiff of antifreeze in the cabin. Both days were below 15degrees(today below zero) which normally would cause the smell the whole time once the car was at 180-230degrees.
> 
> I still have smell under the hood & slight smell standing next to the car but as long as I can drive & breath freely I'm happy. I will watch my surge tank level to see if I loose any. I see the dealer filled to the arrow(it was always low), I added a couple inches a few thousand miles ago which seemed to have vented into the atmosphere.
> 
> Overall I am happy but feel the car should not be loosing antifreeze or smelling even under the hood.


I am hoping that their permanent solution will address the concern of the antifreeze venting into the atmosphere at all.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

spacedout said:


> I would like to say I took my car in this week & they checked the system for leaks. None were found so they added the vent tube to the surge tank & upgraded engine compartment seals. I have driven about 100miles so far & have not had one wiff of antifreeze in the cabin. Both days were below 15degrees(today below zero) which normally would cause the smell the whole time once the car was at 180-230degrees.
> 
> I still have smell under the hood & slight smell standing next to the car but as long as I can drive & breath freely I'm happy. I will watch my surge tank level to see if I loose any. I see the dealer filled to the arrow(it was always low), I added a couple inches a few thousand miles ago which seemed to have vented into the atmosphere.
> 
> Overall I am happy but feel the car should not be loosing antifreeze or smelling even under the hood.


It is promising to know that apparently the PI was able to provide you with some relief. My car is going in on Monday and I feel confident that the PI will be completed as outlined. Working closely with my service manager has given me hope that "fresh air" is on the way. It is good to hear some news that is promising. From Xtreme's previous posting it appears that a permanent fix will replace the tape/tube maintenance and address the smell under the hood. Thanks for the positive update.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Given that the anti-freeze into the cabin ranges from none to immediate health issues I'm not surprised that GM is having a hard time tracking this down. I suspect there are a variety of problems that cause this issue.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

obermd said:


> Given that the anti-freeze into the cabin ranges from none to immediate health issues I'm not surprised that GM is having a hard time tracking this down. I suspect there are a variety of problems that cause this issue.


And the final resolution will require more than one corrective action. I also am happy to hear that Chevy is working on a better fix than the tape/tube one.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

steve333 said:


> Is there a way to subscribe to a Thread without posting on it? I want to follow this issue until it's resolved. I guess the point is moot now that I posted but for future Threads.


Go to top of thread to black bar, click drop down for thread tools, click Subscribe to this thread (last option), then choose your preferred subscription type (instant email, etc.) and save the changes.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Never had this issue hope I never do. Good read.


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

Here is an update on the work being done to my Cruze.....

I have had the seal replaced, hose added to bottle, and heater core replaced, all to no avail.


Next steps are to replace some of the heater core mounting structure with the thought that it is porous and may have soaked up antifreeze from the leaking heater core.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Cruzenart said:


> Here is an update on the work being done to my Cruze.....
> 
> I have had the seal replaced, hose added to bottle, and heater core replaced, all to no avail.
> 
> Next steps are to replace some of the heater core mounting structure with the thought that it is porous and may have soaked up antifreeze from the leaking heater core.


Has your dealership checked the material under the floor base carpet? It is porous and will absorb anti-freeze.


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

obermd said:


> Has your dealership checked the material under the floor base carpet? It is porous and will absorb anti-freeze.


I will ask them to check that, good stuff...Thank you!!


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

obermd said:


> Has your dealership checked the material under the floor base carpet? It is porous and will absorb anti-freeze.


Obermd, this sounds like it would be easy for me to check. I will do that today and report back.

Thanks Again


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Got some information finally regarding all of this that I can share with you guys.
> 
> I had someone from GM's executive office in Detroit get in touch with me regarding the issue with my car, and she was very transparent with me regarding what the status of the issue is. I also talked to my contact in social media, and she gave me some insight as well.
> 
> ...


So when did they actually figure out that PI did not work? It has been almost 8 months since they released that and they are telling you they are still working on things? You don't find that kind of strange?


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## cruzex (Jan 31, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I am hoping that their permanent solution will address the concern of the antifreeze venting into the atmosphere at all.


XtremeRevolution and others on this forum:

I've had the same issue with my 2011 Cruze Eco (antifreeze smell periodically in the cabin when it is cold outside, with the heater at above 50%, at freeway speeds for about 10 mins and with minimal coolant loss). I've very much appreciated the way you have handled this forum, and am glad for your proactive and helpful approach. I won't go into alot of detail on my issue except to indicate that I've had it in the dealership twice for this issue, and the second visit resulted in application of the PI (which didn't take because the adhesive on the black tape failed). By profession, I'm an engineer (no, I'm not an automotive engineer, but instead I do system design, and I also do most of my own auto maintenance and repairs). I'm a first-time poster on these forums, so please bear with me if I mess up. Here's what I have to add to help. I've written the narrative below using a tool I use for troubleshooting things and getting to root cause called the "5 Whys." Apologies that it is so long. Please give it a read and let me know what you think. I tried to read the entire 1st forum you created on this issue before generating this document. If you think it may be useful to the engineers at GM who are working hard on this issue, please forward it to them.

Best regards ... cruzex

5 Whys for Cruze Antifreeze Smell (with minimal coolant loss)


 Why is there an antifreeze smell evident in the engine compartment and/or cabin of some 2011 through 2013 Chevrolet Cruzes?
Ans: Since the coolant is a closed system (pressurized at up to the 20 psig rated pressure of the overflow tank), the smell must come from either antifreeze liquid or vapor escaping from the closed system. If it is a large / steady leak, occurring under all circumstances, the leak would be typically be detectable by traditional dealer troubleshooting techniques (dye, pressure testing, etc.), and more coolant / fluid would have to be added to the system regularly.


Why do some vehicles experience the antifreeze smell without experiencing significant / observable fluid loss?
Ans: The leak must either be a steady by imperceptible / low exchange rate leak (difficult to detect using traditional troubleshooting techniques) or the leak happens infrequently such that only enough liquid / vapor escapes during the leak / vapor “events” to be detectible by the vehicle occupant’s nose(s) (also difficult to detect as it is also hard to catch the vehicle “outgassing event” in the act).


Why is it challenging to duplicate the events in which the antifreeze smell is detected in the vehicle cabin?
Ans: Many owner’s reports (in the forum) describing the antifreeze smell in the cabin find that it occurs at specific “events.” Namely, that the vehicle has often needed to be warmed up for a period of time with a greater than 50 percent heater setting, and during cold weather and driven at higher rates of speed. Because of the number of factors which have to be present to duplicate the Cruze coolant smell “events” in the cabin, it is challenging to duplicate.


Why do the difficult to explain / diagnose Cruze coolant smell “events” in the cabin seem to happen more frequently with cold weather, high heater settings, and higher rates of vehicle speed (which would typically not be a worst-case coolant heat build-up / pressure build-up scenario for most vehicles with a traditional thermostat)?
Ans: Typically, most vehicles have high heat build-up / pressure build-up in the cooling system after being driven in hot environments, under high loads, and after stopping / turning the vehicle off (because there is no convective cooling air either from the vehicle moving, or from the fan, to remove the heat from the coolant). In addition, a frequently used remedy to reverse overheating for most vehicles (if they are beginning to overheat during use) is to run the heater as the heat exchange between coolant and the heater core helps act like an additional radiator to cool the coolant. Regarding the Cruze, however, many owner’s reports (in the forum) have described the coolant temperature of the Cruze rising to between 200 and 226 degrees when cold outside temperatures are occurring, and with the heater on with a greater than 50 percent setting and at higher vehicle speeds.
Compared to most vehicles with a traditional thermostat, the observation of the Cruze antifreeze smell along with rising coolant temperature under these conditions would seem counterintuitive. For vehicles with a traditional thermostat during cold outside temperatures, the thermostat remains closed and the coolant is allowed to re-circulate within the engine to allow the coolant to be warm enough to make the heater effective. When the coolant temperature reaches a specific set-temperature, the thermostat opens automatically (due to a bi-metallic material in the thermostat which opens the valve against a spring which has to be overcome for the valve to open) and the coolant is allowed to circulate through the radiator to cool the fluid and prevent the system from overheating / outgassing / etc.
For the Cruze which has an engine computer unit (ECU) controlled thermostat, it appears that either the “electro-thermostat” is waiting too long to open because of the cold outside temperature and extra demand for heating due to the vehicle temperature setting being above 50 percent and / or due to inaccurate ECU sensors or lags in the “electro-thermostat” to respond to the ECU command to open. If the “electro-thermostat” doesn’t open “on time” under these conditions, the coolant temp and pressure within the closed system will rise, and coolant / antifreeze vapor will outgas and / or fluid will escape from the system. The Cruze coolant, under these conditions, will outgas / escape will occur at either the location it is designed to escape from (i.e., the cap on top of the overflow bottle), or from the weakest connection within the system (example in the forum of one instance in which the hose to the coolant tank was oversized, and could allow vapor / fluid escape if pressure / temp was high). Because the vehicle is moving at a faster speed, the vapors will make their way through the hood / cowl seals, and into the “fresh” air-intake and into the cabin (depending on how well these seals are working). The faster the vehicle is moving, the more that static pressure builds up on the hood and cowl seals (i.e., pressure which is trying to force air through the engine compartment and through these seals over to the area (behind the hood / outside the engine compartment) where the “fresh” air is designed to enter the cabin.
Depending on how complex the computer algorithms are for the ECU’s control the Cruze’s “electro-thermostat”, various scale-factor errors on such sensors the Inlet Air Temp (IAT) sensor, the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS) and etc. could be giving inaccurate readings to the ECU while it is making the decisions regarding when to open the “electro-thermostat”. I’ve experienced a situation in which a CTS on a GM Saturn that I owned became “cracked” and let coolant seep in and affect the accuracy of the CTS, and these inaccurate readings to the ECU caused overheating, and additional issues / errors with the vehicle emissions calculations that he ECU performs at the start of a “drive cycle.” Possibly one or more sensors on the Cruze become inaccurate over time (e.g., a non-linear output, or where the sensor’s output reaches a limit when the ECU expects it to be giving an output which varies with the outside environment). There were a few reports in the forum in which specific temperature readings were recorded from the DIU as to when the coolant smell event occurred. However, if the sensor which provides the data to the ECU that the DIU is displaying is inaccurate at specific temperature ranges and gives erroneous readings to the ECU, it could cause the ECU to wait too long to open the “electro-thermostat” under the specific conditions of the Cruze coolant / antifreeze smell “event(s)” The “electro-thermostat” itself could also cause an issue if it becomes degraded over time, and requires more drive current from the ECU (only a guess / speculation here) when the vehicle’s coolant becomes hotter, and this could occur if they allow the coolant to become hotter in the Cruze when it is cold outside, and when more demand is required from the heater, and when they know that lots of forced air cooling will be occurring due to highway vehicle speeds.
Having sensor errors creep in over-time, and / or having some of the sensors which are received by GM having calibration errors could explain why the onset of the issue is delayed for some Cruze owners, and why not all Cruze owners have the problem / issue. Also, unique to the Cruze 1.4 l engine (as some in the forum have also discussed) is the turbo charger which may be adding (speculation here) to the cooling system heat load while the vehicle is driving at freeway speeds, and this heat load may build up (speculation here again) more rapidly than expected (under the cold-outside / high interior heater demand condition) and help push the coolant temperature over the set-point for opening the “electro-thermostat” (especially if the CTS has lost its accurate calibration or was not calibrated properly to begin with). In addition, the forum records that some of the Cruze antifreeze events are occurring with the Cruze Eco (which I also have) and this vehicle has a set of vents at the front of the car which are supposed to close at highway speeds to reduce drag / increase gas mileage. The Eco also has smaller cutouts in the grill for fuel economy as well. It could be that the highway speeds (plus cold temp, plus higher heater setting) and Cruze Eco antifreeze events could have a link … as the Eco’s have less air moving through the engine compartment / radiator to cool the engine, and perhaps combined with an inaccurate sensor (or two) the ECU program is not adapted for the Eco and lets the cooling system “overheat” and vent coolant.


Why doesn’t the PI that GM implemented with the dealerships consistently work to solve the “Cruze antifreeze smell in the cabin” issue?
Ans: 1) It’s not really a solution at all to the real problem (as many have stated / alluded to in the forum, and which XremeRevolution has recently relayed), but instead appears to be a temporary attempt to remove the smell symptoms after the venting / outgassing event occurs. If the system was working “as-designed” then the system wouldn’t need to “vent” as it is designed as a closed-loop system (others have made this observation also). It’s not supposed to lose coolant liquid or vapor unless something goes awry and it needs to vent to protect the system. Well designed pressure systems (and the Cruze cooling system is a type of pressure system) have a “relief valve” so if the pressure rises above the design point, it can vent to prevent the pressure from rising to the point that something “blows up” and hurts someone. It is likely that the Cruze cooling system may have been designed to keep the coolant temperature / system pressure at the correct values under most operational conditions, but if there is an inaccurate sensor or two providing bad data to the ECU, then off-nominal operational / environmental conditions could cause it to vent.
2) Many have had to have the PI “fix” reapplied multiple times because the 3M tape that is used to hold the rubber vent hose in place can’t stand the heat and the tape detaches, and the vent hose is no longer held in position. This happened to mine after the PI, and now I get the smell of “too hot” rubber and sometimes the coolant smell under the conditions in which it is cold outside (30 to 40 deg F), heater set at 50% or more, and vehicle moving at freeway speeds for a period of time which has caused others to have the Cruze antifreeze smell issue.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Good point on the degraded sensors. I hadn't thought of that aspect. I'd bet checking/replacement of those related sensors will be part of the forthcoming fix. And I bet there will also be a software refresh for the ECM. Perhaps it's time for a "Service Pack" for the Cruze.


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## commutertg (Feb 2, 2013)

cruzex said:


> XtremeRevolution and others on this forum:
> 
> I've had the same issue with my 2011 Cruze Eco (antifreeze smell periodically in the cabin when it is cold outside, with the heater at above 50%, at freeway speeds for about 10 mins and with minimal coolant loss). I've very much appreciated the way you have handled this forum, and am glad for your proactive and helpful approach. I won't go into alot of detail on my issue except to indicate that I've had it in the dealership twice for this issue, and the second visit resulted in application of the PI (which didn't take because the adhesive on the black tape failed). By profession, I'm an engineer (no, I'm not an automotive engineer, but instead I do system design, and I also do most of my own auto maintenance and repairs). I'm a first-time poster on these forums, so please bear with me if I mess up. Here's what I have to add to help. I've written the narrative below using a tool I use for troubleshooting things and getting to root cause called the "5 Whys." Apologies that it is so long. Please give it a read and let me know what you think. I tried to read the entire 1st forum you created on this issue before generating this document. If you think it may be useful to the engineers at GM who are working hard on this issue, please forward it to them.
> 
> ...


That was very well thought out and stated. I have had 3 fixes applied and none have solved this issue, because, as you stated very few of these fixes actually solve, in all cases, the real source of the issue. This problem, in my 2013 Cruze, only occurs when the heater temp setting is set on the hottest setting in conjunction with the fan set on the lowest speeds (1 or 2). If the temp setting is raised in conjunction with the fan speed the severity of the smell is greatly reduced. I believe you are correct in that it is a coolant temperature issue and when it gets too hot the resulting vapor makes it's way into the cabin from a number of sources. I hope someone at GM deals with this soon.


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## cruzex (Jan 31, 2013)

A "Service Pack" sounds like it makes alot of sense ... and this may be why it has been taking a long time to get the final "fix" released. Often it takes longer to validate / perform regression testing on a software (or firmware) fix for a complete system like a car or aircraft, because they have to re-verify many of the other systems that the software also controls to ensure that they haven't inadvertently "broken" something else unassociated with the area that they are trying to fix. For a hardware solution, you can build a prototype (or buy the parts if they are off-the shelf parts) and try them out. After a hardware fix is proven, then the parts can be purchased and put into supply.

Here's an interesting photo of the overflow tank / connections from one of the sites that showed pics of the Diesel Cruze (Eco-D). It shows another fitting / hose leading down from the coolant tank. Perhaps there will be a pressure release valve in the fitting, and the 2nd hose will be used to vent things when it gets too hot. BTW: the current Cruze tank has a molded plastic clip that is unused, but this picture of the Diesel Cruze tank shows that this molded clip is being used to hold the additional hose. I don't know whether they will incorporate this new set-up as part of the current Cruze fix, but it looks interesting. I still think that they need to ensure that the cooling system doesn't need to vent in the first place though.


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## cruzex (Jan 31, 2013)

Thanks very much for the additional information ... re: the fan set on the lowest speeds (1 or 2) ... I forgot about that. The lower the speed that the fan is set on, the less heat transfer that is being removed heater core under the dash and being re-distributed inside the vehicle. Perhaps, if they have an issue with their ECU computer program (such that the ECU program was designed to not take the fan setting into account for controlling the "electro-thermostat" for the coolant) then this could be the "straw that breaks the camel's back". That is, the ECU doesn't have all the data it needs for accurately predicting when to open the "electro-thermostat" and allows the coolant to overheat and the cooling system to vent. From other posts, it looks like they get the best fuel economy out of the 1.4 when they purposefully run it "hot", but if their ECU program doesn't have the correct data, or all the data it needs to keep it from getting "too hot" then it gets away from them with these coolant "outgassing" events.


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## Yates (Aug 24, 2012)

At least this problem is receiving some national attention. I clicked an e-mail from another car complaint site and the antifreeze smell in the Cruze was in the top ten complaints for all cars sold in the U.S. for 2011. Toyota lead the list for all problems and recalls though.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> So when did they actually figure out that PI did not work? It has been almost 8 months since they released that and they are telling you they are still working on things? You don't find that kind of strange?


Not at all. An issue like this cannot be rushed or the consequences could be huge. They released the PI as a temporary alleviation of the issue. 

The Important thing here is that GM for the first time to my knowledge is being completely transparent. They acknowledged the issue and released the PI knowing it would take a while to get a permanent fix.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## william10609 (Dec 13, 2012)

2012 cruze eco, 10065 miles. Finished my 4th visit today. Had PI completed two weeks ago, no improvement. This visit was to replace the heater core, unfortunately it was dry and no leaks found. Now they plan is to contact a field specialist. Aleast this vehicle will make a good case study. If I get a good word I will post it.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

While I agree that the fix for this issue is likely complex and will take awhile to test and implement, I wonder why Chevy chose to keep the dealerships in the dark? If the dealers had knowledge of the situation, they could have avoided some customer frustration and lowered satisfaction. I have not seen anything other than PI in Techlink on the smell issue. Maybe that's the way it's always been done.My prediction: A software update for the ECM & a 22 psi surge tank cap.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> ... I wonder why Chevy chose to keep the dealerships in the dark? ...


Complete guess, but going on the general behaviour of any sales-driven organisation - because if they told the dealers the dealers would stop selling Cruzen.

The dealers want their service departments doing scheduled services - that's their bread-and-butter money - and the odd add-on - which is for beer and skittles.

Recalls and warranty problems cost the dealership.

Of course, this ignores the base state of any and all communications from *any* car company: lie. If that doesn't work, lie some more.


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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

Yeah... You don't admit "we goofed" until you have a fix. Otherwise, your competitors drag you through the mud over it. I know of a company (computers, not cars) that had an annoying problem where their stuff would randomly crash for no apparent reason that took a year to find the root cause of (turned out to be a defect in a chip from a 3rd party vendor) and get a fix into production. I don't think the Cruze fix will take quite that long, I'm not a mechanical engineer but a car cooling system really doesn't even come close to the level of complexity of a modern computer chip.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> While I agree that the fix for this issue is likely complex and will take awhile to test and implement, I wonder why Chevy chose to keep the dealerships in the dark? If the dealers had knowledge of the situation, they could have avoided some customer frustration and lowered satisfaction. I have not seen anything other than PI in Techlink on the smell issue. Maybe that's the way it's always been done.My prediction: A software update for the ECM & a 22 psi surge tank cap.


The dealerships may not have been told about it because they do not seem to communicate with GM on a regular basis. It seems to me that the only time a dealership communicates with GM regarding issues is when there is a recall or when they are required to in order to diagnose and fix a customer's car correctly. 

Keep in mind that dealership technicians are not trained to do any heavy or in-depth diagnosis and come up with solutions. They are trained to replace parts, and GM tells them what to replace and how. 



CW_ said:


> Yeah... You don't admit "we goofed" until you have a fix. Otherwise, your competitors drag you through the mud over it. I know of a company (computers, not cars) that had an annoying problem where their stuff would randomly crash for no apparent reason that took a year to find the root cause of (turned out to be a defect in a chip from a 3rd party vendor) and get a fix into production. I don't think the Cruze fix will take quite that long, I'm not a mechanical engineer but a car cooling system really doesn't even come close to the level of complexity of a modern computer chip.


If you don't admit any fault at all and people are blatantly seeing that there is a fault, you also come off as one that doesn't care about their customers. My impression from my discussion with GM internal employees is far from that. It is a huge step for them (in my opinion) to work with me in order to spread information for the social media communities so that people are better informed. That kind of transparency was unheard of even a couple of years ago, and it is still unheard of with other car manufacturers. Try getting Toyota to cough up any information related to a recall. 

Computers may be more complex from an engineering perspective than a cooling system is, but there is FAR greater liability and risk involved in changing something in a car. As others mentioned, if a re-flash of the ECM is needed, it has to be done very carefully and tested thoroguhly so it doesn't break anything else. There are so many things involved that it's not even funny, and you really have to be there and walk around their facilities as I did to understand just how much work is involved. Once you have started to see how gears turn in GM, you start to understand why it takes "so long." I'll try to paint a picture for you from a GM perspective. 



GM creates a PI to an issue to alleviate the problem, then discovers that it is not wholly effective and that they need to come up with a new fix. 

How severe is the problem? have enough people complained, or is this an isolated case? If these are isolated cases, let's try to replace every part in the system in hopes that this was merely a defect from a vendor. Let's buy back some of these cars and investigate further. This isn't a one or two week ordeal we're talking about here. 

This issue is now clearly widespread. Customers are filing NHTSA complaints and dealerships don't know what to do. We have customers demanding answers. Can we give them answers? Let's talk to brand quality and legal and see if we can get a statement approved. Wait 2 months at minimum before legal looks over the issue and approves the most generic, "less is better" answer to the questions customers have for liability reasons. 

We now have to develop a new solution. Let's get approval to start since there are other issues with other vehicles we're working on. Ok, now we have a proposed solution. Need to test it. This needs to be tested in 140 degree weather, in -20 degree weather, in the rain, in zero humidity, at a severe incline, under heavy shock, with approved aftermarket antifreeze, and the list goes on. Every single factor has to be taken into consideration, and these take time; lots of time. We test it, find out it's not effective. Back to the drawing board. Get another solution, test it, and find it's successful. This should do. Let's run it by Finance. Finance asks "is there any way we can make it cheaper?" After all, the solution has to be not only effective, but also cost-effective. If it's going into 300,000 cars, a difference of $5 in costs equals $1.5 million saved. Engineering says "I think we can cut down the cost by $4." It also has to be installed with as little effort as possible so we don't waste technician time. It also has to perform the same as the original part did with regard to effective engine cooling. 

Will this be a recall? If so, we need to contact legal to determine how to proceed. Will this be a silent recall, or will every customer get a letter in the mail? Time to contact NHTSA or whatever government agency needs to be contacted. Get approval from legal to proceed. 

Next, we need to get the ball rolling to build inventory. We send the parts to the manufacturer to create the tooling needed and start producing the new parts. Manufacturer then needs to create inventory so we can contact dealers. Inventory is now available, let's release a TSB or recall and contact dealers so they know what to do. 

All of this takes time. Lots of time. Depending on the part, this is not something that GM can just rush through in a couple of months. I'm going to sound like a GM fanboy here, but really, they did well in providing a PI so that dealerships could at least attempt to retrofit some kind of temporary alleviation to the problem to give GM more time to find a proper fix. Regardless of how simple the new fix will look, keep in mind that there are so many hoops to jump through that there is no way it could have been made available any sooner.


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

william10609 said:


> 2012 cruze eco, 10065 miles. Finished my 4th visit today. Had PI completed two weeks ago, no improvement. This visit was to replace the heater core, unfortunately it was dry and no leaks found. Now they plan is to contact a field specialist. Aleast this vehicle will make a good case study. If I get a good word I will post it.


My latest update. Tomorrow the car is scheduled for a heater core replacement. Dealer has contacted GM and their engineering specialist has informed them that the heater cores are defective internally. Not to the point of leaking onto the carpet, but enough to leak vapor causing a rainbow effect on the bottom center of the windshield. That symptom, along with the sweet and hot rubber smell is my latest complaint. I will post the factual results when I hide the loaner car somewhere on the dealer lot and road test my car for 45 minutes before swapping keys.

If you have 4 documented repairs for the same condition and no fix, then you definitely should exercise your rights under lemon law. GM is well aware of them and I am SURE they will offer you some serious relief in order to not buy back your 2012. I hope to post on that after this "final repair attempt
" (their words) is completed.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

They created a PI 8 months ago. Before the PI came out they admitted there was a problem and they were working on it. If they admitted on working on it before why haven't they done it again? As of January 10, 2013 a GM District factory rep told me in person he never heard of the issues I have had with the coolant smell. GM engineering told my CS rep that no redesign was in the works and no changes were made for 2013. My dealer was in contact with GM engineering about my car quite a few times and all they told them was to try different pressure caps and recommend a particular tape to use for the PI (which ultimately failed). GM engineering did not tell them they were still looking into it. And you mean to tell us you are so special they are going to tell you what is going on and not their own employees who deal directly with their customers? I call bullpuckey- maybe they are starting to just care now because of some attention it is getting. Do you really think GM is just taking their time, 8 months and counting to get it exactly right- especially an issue that can have health consequences to their customers? Why would they not get this perm fix out as soon as they can? In the meantime I have talked to others who got rid of their Cruze because of this. In my case GM gave me a check. So the powers that be at GM have no qualms seeing customers take an official GM check and see that check signed over and cashed by another car company? Its all a matter of taking their time to get this fix out- who cares if people get sick from toxic fumes or we have to repurchase a few cars. They ignored the problem in the name of $$ and now is getting caught and suddenly they care- end of story.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

upstater said:


> My latest update. Tomorrow the car is scheduled for a heater core replacement. Dealer has contacted GM and their engineering specialist has informed them that the heater cores are defective internally. Not to the point of leaking onto the carpet, but enough to leak vapor causing a rainbow effect on the bottom center of the windshield. That symptom, along with the sweet and hot rubber smell is my latest complaint. I will post the factual results when I hide the loaner car somewhere on the dealer lot and road test my car for 45 minutes before swapping keys.
> 
> If you have 4 documented repairs for the same condition and no fix, then you definitely should exercise your rights under lemon law. GM is well aware of them and I am SURE they will offer you some serious relief in order to not buy back your 2012. I hope to post on that after this "final repair attempt
> " (their words) is completed.


I was offered a voucher based on my sticker price of my Cruze to use at the dealer I purchased the car from- which was a Chevy only dealer. I asked if I could use it at another GM dealer and was told I could not- I was interested in a Verano. I told him I was not interested in another Cruze and did not like the Malibu so I wanted the money. They reluctantly agreed and I got my purchase price back, plus taxes and document/registration fees. They paid off what I owed on the Cruze to the bank and gave me a check for the difference. I traded in a car when I bought the Cruze, so I got that back plus the principle I paid on my loan, the taxes etc. It was a hefty check. I suggest everyone look up their lemon laws and do the same.


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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

Ah. I was neglecting a lot of that stuff. I forgot that the Cruze has a computer controlled thermostat that could introduce the possibility of needing an ECM flash. Also, in the end, the company I referred to did about 6 months of testing of their vendor's new chips that supposedly fixed the problem after they discovered the bad chips before manufacturing new circuit boards to replace the ones with the bad chips, but in the end every affected customer got a free replacement.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Cruzex, welcome to CruzeTalk and thank you for your well thought out comments.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> They created a PI 8 months ago. Before the PI came out they admitted there was a problem and they were working on it. If they admitted on working on it before why haven't they done it again? As of January 10, 2013 a GM District factory rep told me in person he never heard of the issues I have had with the coolant smell. GM engineering told my CS rep that no redesign was in the works and no changes were made for 2013. My dealer was in contact with GM engineering about my car quite a few times and all they told them was to try different pressure caps and recommend a particular tape to use for the PI (which ultimately failed). GM engineering did not tell them they were still looking into it. And you mean to tell us you are so special they are going to tell you what is going on and not their own employees who deal directly with their customers? I call bullpuckey- maybe they are starting to just care now because of some attention it is getting. Do you really think GM is just taking their time, 8 months and counting to get it exactly right- especially an issue that can have health consequences to their customers? Why would they not get this perm fix out as soon as they can? In the meantime I have talked to others who got rid of their Cruze because of this. In my case GM gave me a check. So the powers that be at GM have no qualms seeing customers take an official GM check and see that check signed over and cashed by another car company? Its all a matter of taking their time to get this fix out- who cares if people get sick from toxic fumes or we have to repurchase a few cars. They ignored the problem in the name of $$ and now is getting caught and suddenly they care- end of story.


Listen bud, just because your GM district factory rep told you in person that he had never heard of the issues, doesn't mean he in fact did not. GM is pretty limited in what they are able to say for legal reasons. On that note, service engineering is very tight-lipped about what they are doing most of the time and nothing gets to the customer service level that isn't approved by legal and brand quality. If you haven't noticed, I have a relationship with some people inside GM that allows me to get some information because they trust I know how to present that information and what information not to present. There is plenty of information I was given that I have chosen out of mutual respect not to share. I'm not really concerned with what you were told; I am simply concerned with what I was told and who told it to me, and on that note you can either trust what I said as truth or you can not; it doesn't make a difference to me. 

I mean to tell you I'm so special? No, I never told you I'm so special, but you are more than welcome to call up GM's social media department and ask them if they know who XtremeRevolution is. First time I got any contact from the social media representative that I talk to over the phone, I mentioned who I was on this forum and she replied saying "yeah, I know who you are. Everyone here knows your name (XtremeRevolution), but in a good way." So if you must in fact ask if I'm so special, then yes, considering I create threads like this and the Antifreeze Smell Support thread to give GM additional resources regarding a fix and give you guys information that allows you to get an idea of what GM is doing instead of them being silent or having you jump through hoops in hopes of getting that information yourself, I'd say I do a heck of a lot of work that might in fact make me a bit special. Not that I find any sense of entitlement from it, but to ask what makes me so special as to get information you did not? Well, the answer to that shouldn't be too hard to find. 

Why would they not get this permanent fix out as soon as they can? For reasons I already told you. Did you not read my large reply a few posts back? It's far more difficult to release a fix than you are aware, especially when there was a chance that the PI could have solved the issue of the coolant smell entering the cabin and its associated health risks. Evidently it did not. I don't know if the PI was used in hopes that they could appease owners who are having this issue until a permanent solution comes out, or if they intended it to be a permanent solution at first and then realized that it wasn't going to work. Having been here for a little over a year now, believe me when I say I too have seen people sell their car over this issue and it was discouraging seeing them have to go through that. It's not a matter of taking their time; it's a matter of following the process they have in place to ensure that they don't run into any legal issues, or to ensure that the solution is in fact permanent. I get the impression you really don't know how things work in GM and how long it takes for a solution to a problem like this to be released. There are many factors and variables that you have not considered. If you recall an issue regarding the strut popping noise a year ago, you'll remember how long that took. They discovered noisy struts that were put in cars produced before December 2011, and they halted production of the Cruze for a week as a result of those defective struts. They developed a new strut to go in the new cars, but it took them at least 4 months more before people could actually go to their dealers and have them replace the strut. 

That said, you've expressed your discontent. I'm not too concerned with helping you anymore as you don't even have a Cruze. What I am concerned with is the attitude you're giving me considering I personally helped you in the past and went out of my way to try to get you some resolution to your problem. What bothers me is why you're deliberately giving me a hard time here. If you want to help people in this thread, by all means help them, but if you're just here to give me a hard time and question what I tell people without any concrete reason, then you don't need to be here.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

We need people like XTreme to be a go between and contact with GM. Coming from GMInsideNews believe me it helps. 

Now, I do fault GM for knowing about this issue for the first 2 model years and then making zero changes for the 2013 Model. That is just unacceptable. I know other car companies have issues but I don't think any of them would be stupid enough to continue producing a model with a known defect for a third year in a row without changes.
GM should have put whatever was necessary into correcting this issue and if their engineering team couldn't come up with a fix than perhaps Opel's engineering team could have been brought in. 
From what I understand only NA Cruzen (I love saying that) have this issue, if so, than the 1.4T should have been replaced by another engine (such as the 2.4L Ecotec) until and unless GM could find the problem. In the meantime engineers should have kept looking for a way to fix those from 2011 and 2012. Speaking of Ecotec, GM had a perfectly good engine in the 2.2L Engine and if they had this engine standard and the 1.4T optional it would have been a better way to go, but that is a seperate issue.
It's clear to me that GM didn't have any urgency about this issue until less than a year ago. Something is wrong somewhere. What about the sticking steering issue, will GM wait another year before deciding it was worth their time and effort to correct? 
Now, more lost customers and fewer customers buying the Cruze. and possible lost to GM forever. That is not a good business model.


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## Yates (Aug 24, 2012)

Just wait till Drudge or one of the other anti-GM political websites get a hold of this matter. They will paint all Cruzes as toxic and sales will go south fast. Seems GM would have learned from past mistakes but never learn, never mind.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

My post was not directed towards you and I'm sorry I came across in that way. My post was directed at GM. My dealer tried very hard to fix my car. The CS reps I talked through all of this appeared to be very honest with me and wanted to help. I appreciate your help here. I just don't see why GM would keep info from those people who worked hard to helped me. I liked the Cruze and expressed I wanted to get it fixed and did not want to go down the road of a repurchase. If I was told they are working on a fix and acknowledged the problem I would have gotten another Cruze. I think GM did a disservice by not communicating that to the people who directly deal with the customers. Because of that they lost one. I just think it is crazy they will share info with you and not with people who could have kept me as a GM customer. I am not talking detailed explicit info, I'm talking of basic info saying we realize a problem exists and we are working hard to solve this. Knowing that this issue has a tendency to show up after quite a few miles on the car I would have gladly got a 2013 Cruze. No one had answers for me and I had no choice to do what I did. I just hope there are people who are not going to suffer major health issues because of this. This could potentially be a very serious issue. My car got unbearable towards the end. Good luck to everyone and I am done posting here. I will monitor out of curiosity. I hope I read about a solution to this strictly on this forum and not watching the nightly news one day yet announcing another Cruze recall.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> My post was not directed towards you and I'm sorry I came across in that way. My post was directed at GM. My dealer tried very hard to fix my car. The CS reps I talked through all of this appeared to be very honest with me and wanted to help. I appreciate your help here. I just don't see why GM would keep info from those people who worked hard to helped me. I liked the Cruze and expressed I wanted to get it fixed and did not want to go down the road of a repurchase. If I was told they are working on a fix and acknowledged the problem I would have gotten another Cruze. I think GM did a disservice by not communicating that to the people who directly deal with the customers. Because of that they lost one. I just think it is crazy they will share info with you and not with people who could have kept me as a GM customer. I am not talking detailed explicit info, I'm talking of basic info saying we realize a problem exists and we are working hard to solve this. Knowing that this issue has a tendency to show up after quite a few miles on the car I would have gladly got a 2013 Cruze. No one had answers for me and I had no choice to do what I did. I just hope there are people who are not going to suffer major health issues because of this. This could potentially be a very serious issue. My car got unbearable towards the end. Good luck to everyone and I am done posting here. I will monitor out of curiosity. I hope I read about a solution to this strictly on this forum and not watching the nightly news one day yet announcing another Cruze recall.


It's a matter of liability. When a company becomes that large, if you let out information in a bad way, it can end up costing a lot of money. 

It is because of people like yourself that I started pressing on to get some information from GM. I saw that they were losing customers left and right and I stressed that I needed information ASAP in order for people to see that they actually cared. Within less than a week, I was given the information I posted in the 2nd post of this thread. 

Social Media is something new to GM and something they are figuring out as they go along. They're a bit late to the party considering forums like this have been around for at least a decade now, but at least there's progress. 

It sucks to hear that the issue in your car became unbearable. Believe me, I would have done the exact same you did; only I would have made so much noise that every news network in the Chicago area would have received a letter about it, the BBB and the NHTSA would have received complaints, and I would have demanded a refund. 

Glad to hear you weren't directing the attitude toward me and it was just toward GM. In that regard, I'd agree with you, and I believe that your attitude toward them is well deserved and justifiable. I am glad that GM finally got some information through regarding this issue, but I am sad that for many people, it was too late. One can only hope that GM will learn from things like this. 

I work in customer service and have done so for my entire career. I'm a systems security administrator who grants access to over 50 applications on the network for a health care company that employs 15,000 people. I manage projects as well as grant access. I recently became the lead IT consultant for my deceased father in law's company and have been dealing with his clients. In addition to this, I build sub boxes for people on this forum, which I'm now catching up on after having been bombarded with work and life events. One thing I learned over the years is that it doesn't necessarily matter how long it takes you to do something, but how well you communicate with your clients and how well you give them the impression that you have the situation under control and that you are working on the problem. In IT, I am forced to remember that on a daily basis as I cannot simply work on a problem behind the scenes for a month and not communicate back with updates. 

That degree of customer service applies to all industries. People need to know that they can trust you, and to do that, you have to provide constant and transparent communication. I have no doubt that there are many who are going to read this thread and think "alright, I'll hold off on trading my car in for a while longer waiting for this fix."


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Still no smell thankfully


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

XtremeRevolution- fftopic:

Can I ask a dumb question since you seem to have this relationship with GM that none of us do. WHY weren't/aren't they as "transparent" about the transmission issues that many of us had with our 2011 Cruzes OR are they quietly working on solving that issue also? I don't think I have EVER read anything in this forum or any other forum dealing with the shifting issue where GM fixed someone's car. I have never seen an admission by GM that there was any issue at all. Seems like everyone, including myself, gets told- "car operating as designed"? IF that was the case, then WHY did they change the shift patterns for the 2012/2013 models? I'm just curious. I just got rid of my Cruze LTZ RS after just about 2 years and 13,300 miles plus having one year remaining on my lease and leased a 2013 Buick Verano Turbo on Jan. 31st. The straw that broke the camel's back was a GM engineer looking at my car at the dealer for 5 days and driving it for 13 miles and telling me on Jan. 21st that it's fine! I am no engineer or mechanic, but have been buying new cars every 2-3 years for the past 50 years since I was 16 years old and think I have a LITTLE life experience to know when something is not quite right.! I don't need an engineering degree or a mechanic's degree to know when something is drastically wrong with a car!

I wish you continued luck trying to help everyone here, but many of the Cruze problems SHOULD have been found in their FOUR MILLION miles of testing. This car was out for several years in other parts of the world and could not be THAT different than what came to our shores. IF they were that different, then GM should have tested the cars that were going to be sold here for 4 million miles! It's just aggravating when you spend good money for a new car and have to put up with nonsense like this. I have had plenty of "first year" model cars with NO problems. Many of them WERE GM products- Chevy Caprices, Buick Rivieras, Buick LaCrosse etc.

I haven't given up on GM products YET! Let's just hope this new Verano Turbo is troublefree. So far, so good- 3 days!


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Fastdriver: GM did more than just change the shift maps on the 6T40 trasnaxle for 2012. The unit got new bearings, new solinoids, and a new TCM also. It actually became the second generation of this transmission. Buick even got a third version for e versions which had a second TCM installed for that function. Why didn't they at least do a software upgrade for the 2011s? I have no idea and we will likely never know why. My guess is $$$$$$. Sorry, I didn't mean to take this thread off topic. Back to the "smell".

UPDATE: After thinking on this (old age = slow thought process), $$$ may entail more than just updating the TCMs of all of the 2011s out there. As XR and others have explained, the Cruze electronics is a system of processors, network, and peripheral devices and simply changing one thing may break, or hinder, something else. This may be why the transmission underwent so much change for the second generation model. I'm seeing this effect on other brands of cars that have high degrees of electronic integration as owners try to apply aftermarket items and have problems with some other part of the electronics on the car. Also, there is a long history in the automotive industry of making changes to correct something wrong in one model year and not retrofitting that change. Example: early Camaros suffered horrible rear axle wheel hop under acceleration and braking. Chevy corrected it by changing the shock mounting in '69.


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

Something new to think about this problem. Over time with my 2012 I have had that smell but only when I lift up the hood. So now what I have found is that every time it smells the upper coolant hose has very little pressure in it as I squeeze it and I can smell the coolant coming from the Rad-cap only. I have had only a few time with this smell and most of the other times the upper hose has great pressure in it and no smell at the overflow tank.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Off to the dealership today with a grin on my face. Left with the service managers 2013 Traverse LT while they worked on my car--nice vehicle for a loaner! They went back in, took everything apart, and started from the bottom up with seal replacement. I will admit that my dealership got it right this time (completing the PI as outlined). Actually, they went above and beyond trying to seal the vapors from coming into the cabin. Job completed in a few hours. Left with a smile, handshake, new seals, and they even replaced the cabin filter per my request. Down the road I went--time to test drive and determine the outcome. Sniff, sniff, what's that smell, the diesel pickup in front of me?--No. Did I put my deodorant on this morning?--Yes. The car that I passed wasn't burning oil? SNIFF, SNIFF--Dex-cool! Of course--I called my district specialist and left a message to return my call. 

I have been doing my own research and I think I found a fix (Plan B)--at least for now.

Plan B:









I know how frustrating:blowup: this is, but I am trying to keep a good attitude and a sense of humor. That 2013 black Malibu sure looked nice at the dealership today!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Off to the dealership today with a grin on my face. Left with the service managers 2013 Traverse LT while they worked on my car--nice vehicle for a loaner! They went back in, took everything apart, and started from the bottom up with seal replacement. I will admit that my dealership got it right this time (completing the PI as outlined). Actually, they went above and beyond trying to seal the vapors from coming into the cabin. Job completed in a few hours. Left with a smile, handshake, new seals, and they even replaced the cabin filter per my request. Down the road I went--time to test drive and determine the outcome. Sniff, sniff, what's that smell, the diesel pickup in front of me?--No. Did I put my deodorant on this morning?--Yes. The car that I passed wasn't burning oil? SNIFF, SNIFF--Dex-cool! Of course--I called my district specialist and left a message to return my call.
> 
> I have been doing my own research and I think I found a fix (Plan B)--at least for now.
> 
> ...


I'd be pretty livid if I was in your position. After all that work, the car still smells of antifreeze? I'm curious to hear what your case specialist says.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'd be pretty livid if I was in your position. After all that work, the car still smells of antifreeze? I'm curious to hear what your case specialist says.


I am also interested in what the next step will be? My dealership is open to help me anyway they can, but, they need some further guidance from GM. Otherwise, they are shooting in the dark trying to troubleshoot this problem. I don't want my car to be yanked apart in pieces to figure this out (unless it is GM engineers doing this and I will take the 2013 black Malibu I saw today on my dealers lot). Wish I had better news to share with everyone.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Well BSM, at least you've proven that the PI fix doesn't work and a real solution has to be created. It must be tough being a guenia pig. Thanks for keeping us in loop through this process. I am dying to see the working solution, as long as it isn't a 2015 Cruze.


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## Truepath (Feb 2, 2013)

I test drove a 2012 Cruze 2 weeks ago and commented to the salesman that the side driver's window seemed to be fogging up. He said that's just from the thorough cleaning and that the water will evaporate. That seemed reasonable to me so I forgot about the issue (obviously a big mistake) and a few days later ended up buying the car. On my way home from the dealer the window fogged again. This has continued every time I have taken the car on the highway since. By the way, it has been very cold here in Minnesota the last couple of weeks. Today I brought the car to the dealer and they could not locate any leak, but put dye in the cooling system. I'm scheduled to return in a week. From reading through this thread (and the earlier one) it sounds like the dye will not disclose anything. I am sitting here very frustrated by this whole thing and can only hope the GM comes up with an effective fix very soon in the form of some type of recall. In the meantime, it seems like it would behoove GM to let their dealers know about this problem and that it is being worked on.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Truepath - the Cruze has a relatively small interior and it tends to fog over quickly as a result. I'm not trying to belittle the anti-freeze smell issue as it is a serious issue that GM definitely needs to resolve, just noting that your breath exhaust is closer to the side window than you may be accustomed to.

Welcome to Cruzetalk and congrats on your Cruze.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

My Cobalt doesn't fog up and it's more narrow than the Cruze


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

steve333 said:


> My Cobalt doesn't fog up and it's more narrow than the Cruze



My windows never fogged up either in my Cruze? Of course, I never had the antifreeze smell so I don't know if it's related to that or not.


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## Yates (Aug 24, 2012)

My windows fog up constantly and I don't have the anti-freeze smell. Sadly i get the bad heater smell when I run defrost to get rid of the fogging.


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## Ginaberrie (Jan 30, 2013)

[h=2]Help![/h]I was wondering if you could please help me and tll me what happened with your Chevy Cruze?
I am so desoerate for answers, I am experiencing health issues when I drive my 2011 Cruze. I have severe headache, nausea, dizziness and last week I has nosebleeds for 2 days. I dropped the car off on Friday and have been driving a rental, but I am not having any symptons now. However, the mechanic, or service write says that there is no smell! I don't know what to do anymore.
If you have any advice, can you please help me?
Thank you,
Gina​


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## Stss95 (Dec 9, 2012)

2500 miles on my cruze and I started getting a burning rubber smell in the car which has developed into the antifreeze smell. So much for that new car smell.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Ginaberrie said:


> *Help!*
> 
> I was wondering if you could please help me and tll me what happened with your Chevy Cruze?
> I am so desoerate for answers, I am experiencing health issues when I drive my 2011 Cruze. I have severe headache, nausea, dizziness and last week I has nosebleeds for 2 days. I dropped the car off on Friday and have been driving a rental, but I am not having any symptons now. However, the mechanic, or service write says that there is no smell! I don't know what to do anymore.
> ...



If you are affected this badly from the smell, I would suggest that you look here- http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-lemon.pdf - THEN if you need more help, call them for help. The phone number is at the bottom of the sheet. If you need even more help, I would look for a LEMON LAW LAWYER! I would also talk to my doctor about the effects that this smell is having on you healthwise. This is ridiculous! Don't think GM is worried about YOU smelling that every day! IF it was one of their family members with this problem, they would be OUT of that car! YOU have to take the bull by the horns. I would also suggest that you file a complaint with the government here- https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/- because if they get enough complaints and see a pattern, THEY CAN initiate a RECALL!

Patience is one thing, but when it starts affecting your health, that's another thing! People have been complaining about this antifreeze smell since the 2011 model year! Now people with 2013 models are still complaining about this.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Yates said:


> My windows fog up constantly and I don't have the anti-freeze smell. Sadly i get the bad heater smell when I run defrost to get rid of the fogging.



Are you sure that you don't have the RECIRCULATE BUTTON on? That will fog up your windows! You need OUTSIDE air.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Well, after the dealership having my car for a week and pressure testing it all night, they told me there is no leak, which I already knew. They got a call from GM engineering to go ahead and put the vent tube on...... From what I've read on here, this doesn't seem to help anyone. Has anyone had this done and the smell completely eliminated? Or will I most likely be calling them back in a few days?


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## Truepath (Feb 2, 2013)

obermd said:


> Truepath - the Cruze has a relatively small interior and it tends to fog over quickly as a result. I'm not trying to belittle the anti-freeze smell issue as it is a serious issue that GM definitely needs to resolve, just noting that your breath exhaust is closer to the side window than you may be accustomed to.
> 
> Welcome to Cruzetalk and congrats on your Cruze.


Thanks for the welcome comment. I do appreciate forums like this one and the time the moderators put into it. As to the fogged windows, I have been trying to give the Cruze the benefit of the doubt on that, but I don't think it is caused by the car being narrow. I have driven small cars for years and the only other time this has happened was in a Ford Taurus which was notorious for bad heater cores. I like the Cruze and I think it has the potential of being a good car or me. I know that various problems come up with cars and that one way or another they get taken care of. I really hope Chevrolet expedites a permanent remedy to this issue.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I seem to have put the smell behind me for the most part. Mine started when I filled the tank to the proper level.

11,300 miles.

I lowered the level in the tank to the bottom of the arrow mark and fashioned my own vent tube. 

Since then, I've driven over 400 miles in 30 deg or below weather...heater on full or close to full red, and all different fan speeds. I haven't smelled anything inside or outside the car, even with the temperature up to the full 225F that the car shows on the dash display. With the weather this cold, if the heater is running above fan speed 1, it rarely reaches above 200 in my usual trips, but the 40-mile long highway jaunts have been odor-free as well!

Got a 250-mi trip coming up Friday; I'll see if there's any smell then.


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## jercfamily (Feb 5, 2013)

Mine has 36000mile. It has been back twice now for the antifreeze smell INSIDE. They 1st replaced the waterpump, which I knew wasn't the problem ( thanks for the new pump though). And now GM told them to replace the O-rings at the heater core I pressume. I pick it up tonight so I will let you know tomorrow


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## cruzer13 (Jan 15, 2013)

Gina,

I was also getting headaches when driving my car. When they tried
to give me my car back I refused and took the service manager out for
a drive until he smelled the problem. In my case it took 15-20 minutes of 
driving before the engine heated up enough to cause the problem. Also,
I would suggest to you and everyone else with this problem that you test
drive your car each time they "claim" they have fixed it and leave it there
if the problem still exists. That way you can keep the loaner.
My dealer has been very good about actively pursuing the problem, but
I finally got tired the attempted fixes and filed a lemon law claim with the BBB.




Ginaberrie said:


> *Help!*
> 
> I was wondering if you could please help me and tll me what happened with your Chevy Cruze?
> I am so desoerate for answers, I am experiencing health issues when I drive my 2011 Cruze. I have severe headache, nausea, dizziness and last week I has nosebleeds for 2 days. I dropped the car off on Friday and have been driving a rental, but I am not having any symptons now. However, the mechanic, or service write says that there is no smell! I don't know what to do anymore.
> ...


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> They got a call from GM engineering to go ahead and put the vent tube on...... From what I've read on here, this doesn't seem to help anyone. Has anyone had this done and the smell completely eliminated?


My experience is that after 3 attempts my dealership completed the PI correctly as outlined. It appears that there is a difference before/after the PI maintenance. Here is the difference: Initially, the vapors entered the cabin when the coolant temp reached 170ish or higher. Now it appears that the vapors are entering when the temp is hitting around 200 or higher. So apparently, something has changed. I am not sure if this fluctuation is from the PI maintenance, or something else surfaced. If anyone has a theory why this has changed please share your thoughts.

Today is day 2 since they went in and resealed the outlined areas. No smell going to work this morning, but the temp only reached 189. Yesterday, I did some highway driving until the temp reached above 200 into the 220s. What I do know is vapors came in and my car reeked (inside and out) like antifreeze for several hours after parking in the garage. I deliberately had the temp control fully open to hot with the fan on high until I knew it was coming in. For safety, I kept a window cracked for fresh air and still encountered the smell. I needed to adjust the temp control fully open to fresh air to purge the cabin with windows open.

So in my case it appears that the tubing to vent vapors is not effective or the seals to divert the vapors elsewhere. I guess there is a possibility that my heater core could have a slow leak, but I don't have the fogging issue or when I recirculate the air I am not smelling antifreeze. I think every owner needs to decide what may be best for them when it comes to the PI maintenance. It appears that the problem varies from car to car.


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## william10609 (Dec 13, 2012)

2012 Cruze ECO 1.4 turbo. Came home today with my new heater core and good old antifreeze smeel. But that is OK! GM passed through the dealership if I would be interested in trade-in incentives, Told them I like the Equinox. GM has raised the white flag. They trade it and do not have to report a buy back. Smart, but I will warn them not to try and resale it. I will pay a carfax check in about a year. BBB auto line is a good place to start if you want arbitration. GM knows I filed and said they did not expect a favorable outcome. Even considered another Cruze, would not be happy if I walked into this again. Good luck and thanks for being there. After six Chevrolet vehicle, one lemon, still a Chevy fan.


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## Ginaberrie (Jan 30, 2013)

GENERAL MOTORS DOES NOT CARE ABOUT MY HEALTH
I have had repairs done on my cooling system 6 times and the smell is still there. They tell me (3 different GM service garages) that they can't smell it. There is nothing wrong.
General Motors told me today that "As far as General Motors is concerned your car is fixed"
Well NO IT ISN'T.
I asked her to switch cars with me she said well, no that isn't going to happen. 
The short term affects of smelling antifreeze are headaches, nausea, eyes burning, and scratchy throat. Long term affects are KIDNEY FAILURE!
I am tired of being a guinea pig for General Motors.
I do not want to drive this car anymore, I am tired of headaches and burning eyes, I am so sick of taking tylenol and ibuprophen. I did not bargain for this. The car that I once loved is going to kill me.
They want me to keep driving the car, I told her I don't want to, she says that is my choice, well actually since I don't have another car, there really is no choice.
I asked her for her supervisor, she refused to give me her supervisor's extension, it is a big secret obviously.
I am trying to contact the CEO of General Motors now.
She is Michelle her extension is 41247, she is not very nice and does not care if I live or die but one thing for sure is that she wants to me to breathe those fumes. She wouldn't though. What makes her better than me? What makes GM so inferior that we all have to drive these cars and suffer every day and risk our health when THEY KNOW THIS PROBLEM IS REAL???


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Ginaberrie said:


> GENERAL MOTORS DOES NOT CARE ABOUT MY HEALTH
> I have had repairs done on my cooling system 6 times and the smell is still there. They tell me (3 different GM service garages) that they can't smell it. There is nothing wrong.
> General Motors told me today that "As far as General Motors is concerned your car is fixed"
> Well NO IT ISN'T.
> ...


Million dollar question: have you gone to a different dealership? 

Going to the exact same dealership repeatedly despite them being not able to reproduce the problem is setting yourself up for massive amounts of frustration. 

I assume you have a case on file with GM? Is this a customer service rep, or a district case manager you're dealing with?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm assuming the statement


> They tell me (3 different GM service garages) that they can't smell it.


 indicates three different dealerships. The big question is are they owned by three different people.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Ginaberrie said:


> GENERAL MOTORS DOES NOT CARE ABOUT MY HEALTH


Gina, unfortunately it would seem that your service manager doesn't care about you. That doesn't mean GM doesn't care about what's going on. I can imagine how frustrated you are, but as others have suggested you need to switch things up a little, try another dealership or talk to someone else at your dealership. If that fails start a Lemon Law claim process. Call GM directly, but don't expect to talk to the CEO.

There's a Gm Customer Service rep on this board named Stacy, get her involved, give her your dealership info and plead your case with her.

In the short term try to identify what things seems to make the problem with your car worse. If you're always driving at really high speeds when this happens, try slowing down and/or taking a different route. Try turning the recirculation function from "frsh air" to "recirculated air" and open a window. Try different things to keep the car from venting fumes into the cabin. If nothing works stop driving the car! It's not worth your health.

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Ginaberrie (Jan 30, 2013)

Did they ever find a fix for your car? This is really affecting the quality of my life and I can't wait until this is over.
Please let me know how things worked out for you. Or if you are still in progress.
Thanks so much


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## Ginaberrie (Jan 30, 2013)

I have been to 3 different dealerships. The problem for me is that I live 74 miles from work and I HAVE to drive for 3 hours a day. I got home last night and went to the dealership to pick up my car and by the time all was said and done I was home at 7:30. Now I have to do this again. 
I am dealing with a GM agent from the Business Resource Center.
Te mechanic at the last dealership really seems to care, I am thankful for that, but he is soooooo far away. I have to take another day off work to go there. He is like an hour from my house after I drive to and from work. I have a family and I am studying for my Master's Degree, I can't do this anymore.....


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I'd be pretty livid if I was in your position. After all that work, the car still smells of antifreeze? I'm curious to hear what your case specialist says.


GM specialist called today. Confirmed that vapors are still entering the cabin after PI maintenance. I was informed that the specialist is advancing this problem to the the next level and they will contact me on Friday. I did ask what GMs plan was and was informed that a discussion would have to take place with other GM representatives to answer my question.

I believe that I have exhausted what my dealership can do for me. They have been very supportive and even though it took them 3 attempts to complete the PI correctly they took responsibility and ensured that they did what they were directed to do the best they can. I could allow them to yank the water pump, heater core, or other components, but I don't think this is proper use of management, time and money and as of now there is not any reason to remove/replace these parts. They are the "nuts and bolts" level of intervention, not the engineers. I believe the vapor problem lies elsewhere. 

My intentions now is to exhaust all avenues within the GM headquarters for a answer. My hope is that they will have some good news on Friday giving me or my dealership the next direction to resolve this issue. I have and will give GM the opportunity to make things right. I know there are other resources that many of us can utilize if we come to a dead end with GM. But, for now I will exhaust all levels of intervention that I have available through my dealership and GM. I want GM to make this right for everyone and I do have expectations of them to resolve this issue. If I have to utilize the BBB, NHTSA, lawyer or other resources I want to feel like I gave GM the opportunity to make things right first. If I have exhausted all avenues available through GM and my problem is not resolved then I will feel justified to take additional actions for resolution. My hope is that this problem is rectified not only for me, but for everyone who is dealing with this issue through GM.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Ginaberrie said:


> GENERAL MOTORS DOES NOT CARE ABOUT MY HEALTH
> I have had repairs done on my cooling system 6 times and the smell is still there. They tell me (3 different GM service garages) that they can't smell it. There is nothing wrong.
> General Motors told me today that "As far as General Motors is concerned your car is fixed"
> Well NO IT ISN'T.
> ...



ginaberrie-

As I have told others here who had the transmission problem with the 2011 Cruzes, GM will not do a thing because there is NO fix for the 2011 Cruze transmission issue just like there doesn't seem to be any fix for the coolant smell either. I went the same route with THREE different people at the "Business Resource Center" concerning my transmission problem. WHY three, I have NO clue! Maybe each one was higher up the food chain? Finally, I called GM corporate myself and dealt with someone there for MONTHS and got nowhere because a GM engineer who looked at my car and drove it for 13 miles, came to the conclusion that it was "operating as designed"! In the case of the coolant smell, you people are getting a different response- I don't smell anything! How can one person smell it and someone else can't? It is an overwhelming smell GM is just giving you lip service and stringing you along.

The first thing you should do is file a complaint with the NHTSA online. It's fast, it's easy and if they get enough complaints and see a pattern, they can MAKE GM initiate a recall! https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Secondly, look up the Lemon Law for PA and get that rolling. Certainly the coolant smell could be considered a SAFETY ISSUE- a health safety issue!

Third- look for a local Lemon Lawyer.

Fourth- maybe send CEO Dan Akerson a CERTIFIED, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED letter since I'm sure you can never get to him directly unless you were some important CEO yourself or a movie star!

It aggravates me to see all you people being jerked around by GM! You can't blame the dealers because their hands are tied! My servicing dealer KNEW that there was nothing that could be done with my Cruze's transmission because he saw MANY like mine! He even told me that he had talked to a GM engineer, I assume NOT the one who looked at my car, who told my service manager-" what do you want me to do about it? They're all like that"! WHERE do you go from there?

I say- DON'T wait for any help from GM because you are wasting your time with these serious issues! Good luck.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> GM specialist called today. Confirmed that vapors are still entering the cabin after PI maintenance. I was informed that the specialist is advancing this problem to the the next level and they will contact me on Friday. I did ask what GMs plan was and was informed that a discussion would have to take place with other GM representatives to answer my question.
> 
> I believe that I have exhausted what my dealership can do for me. They have been very supportive and even though it took them 3 attempts to complete the PI correctly they took responsibility and ensured that they did what they were directed to do the best they can. I could allow them to yank the water pump, heater core, or other components, but I don't think this is proper use of management, time and money and as of now there is not any reason to remove/replace these parts. They are the "nuts and bolts" level of intervention, not the engineers. I believe the vapor problem lies elsewhere.
> 
> My intentions now is to exhaust all avenues within the GM headquarters for a answer. My hope is that they will have some good news on Friday giving me or my dealership the next direction to resolve this issue. I have and will give GM the opportunity to make things right. I know there are other resources that many of us can utilize if we come to a dead end with GM. But, for now I will exhaust all levels of intervention that I have available through my dealership and GM. I want GM to make this right for everyone and I do have expectations of them to resolve this issue. If I have to utilize the BBB, NHTSA, lawyer or other resources I want to feel like I gave GM the opportunity to make things right first. If I have exhausted all avenues available through GM and my problem is not resolved then I will feel justified to take additional actions for resolution. My hope is that this problem is rectified not only for me, but for everyone who is dealing with this issue through GM.



I applaud you for your patience in dealing with this issue! My patience ran out after 6+ months of dealing with GM "customer service" about my transmission issue on my 2011 Cruze. That car is gone and was replaced with a 2013 Buick Verano Turbo on 1/31. SO far, so good!  I wish you luck with your problem and hope you have a happy ending, but I wouldn't make any bets about that.


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## cdncruze (Dec 9, 2012)

Having been told by my local GM dealer that no coolant leak was found back in Dec 2012, I returned there today and told them to fix the problem, then return my car. They found coolant leaking through the threads of one water pump mounting bolt. A new water pump was installed under warranty and all is good. I was advised by the service manager that there will be a VIN# cut off for this problem. I hope this helps with many of you to solve the issue. Cheers.


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## hawkeye (Mar 31, 2012)

What's the build date of your cruze? Does this go into the 2012's for the mounting bolt? Mine is a 2011 with a May 2011 build, and I do have the coolant tank that needed to be added to.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

cdncruze said:


> I returned there today and told them to fix the problem, then return my car. They found coolant leaking through the threads of one water pump mounting bolt. A new water pump was installed under warranty and all is good.


Today? I hope all is well, but I'd feel more confident after a few days of driving the car to be sure the problem doesn't come back. It would seem the root of the problem for most people is not a leaky water pump bolt.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Truepath said:


> I test drove a 2012 Cruze 2 weeks ago and commented to the salesman that the side driver's window seemed to be fogging up. He said that's just from the thorough cleaning and that the water will evaporate. That seemed reasonable to me so I forgot about the issue (obviously a big mistake) and a few days later ended up buying the car. On my way home from the dealer the window fogged again. This has continued every time I have taken the car on the highway since. By the way, it has been very cold here in Minnesota the last couple of weeks. Today I brought the car to the dealer and they could not locate any leak, but put dye in the cooling system. I'm scheduled to return in a week. From reading through this thread (and the earlier one) it sounds like the dye will not disclose anything. I am sitting here very frustrated by this whole thing and can only hope the GM comes up with an effective fix very soon in the form of some type of recall. In the meantime, it seems like it would behoove GM to let their dealers know about this problem and that it is being worked on.



Truepath,
I would like to apologize for the issues that you are having with your Cruze. I would like to look into this for you. Can you please send me a PM with your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer? I look forward to hearing back from you.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## Yates (Aug 24, 2012)

fastdriver said:


> Are you sure that you don't have the RECIRCULATE BUTTON on? That will fog up your windows! You need OUTSIDE air.


Yea, Im sure. I have been driving for 40 years and I know what the rec button is for.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Today? I hope all is well, but I'd feel more confident after a few days of driving the car to be sure the problem doesn't come back. It would seem the root of the problem for most people is not a leaky water pump bolt.


It's a known issue with the water pump. The replacement solves the problem.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It's a known issue with the water pump. The replacement solves the problem.


I stand corrected! I was not aware... is this one of the failure modes for people with the coolant smell inside the car?

I may look at this on my car; my overflow is a little low, I can't see any leaks anywhere and I have never experienced the smell inside the car. If it hadn't been for the coolant smell threads popping up I may not have even looked at my coolant level until the spring!

Regarding the VIN cutoff, do we have any information regarding the builds that are affected?


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

Figures Steve likes every bad post....lol. SO predictable.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

I lol at anyone who thinks they can contact the CEO of any large company and actually get somewhere. That's like showing up at the White House and expecting the President to care about your problems.

My grandpa is one of these. Somehow he wrote a letter to Jacques Nasser and got the tires on his new S-Type replaced with Michelins because the dealer wouldn't change out the factory ones (can't remember, maybe Conti's?). I have no idea how he did it, but maybe being a retiree with 30 years at the company had something to do with it.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

That's because they think if they call up and are upset they will get up the ladder. That is why people are in the positions they are. My question is this? Has the person, Gina was it, gone to a doctor or sought medical attention to get proof that it is the smell? Not saying it isn't, as people are different and some are highly sensitive to things most of us show no effects. That would go a long way to getting GM to take notice. Besides, if it is that bad, you do what you have to do to get out or make it better. Claiming you don't have time is not an excuse, you make time. You expect GM to drop everything and make it right for you. Yet you won't even help yourself beyond just going to the dealer. I know people who have had mold issues in their house and didn't have the money just hanging on the tree out back, but they did something about it because it was their health. They had to find a temporary place while remediation was done. It was hard but they did it.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

bryanakron40 said:


> Figures Steve likes every bad post....lol. SO predictable.


It's called showing support for someone who has a problem.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> I applaud you for your patience in dealing with this issue!


Thanks fastdriver. Sorry to hear that your experience was not a pleasant one. I feel that I am in a position to have some patience for various reasons. First, I am going to step back and take a look at this issue, not only as a consumer, but as an outsider. I want to give GM the opportunity to take care of their customers and show that they are doing something to help remedy the problem. I am trying to take an approach that is patient, but yet exhausting all the resources I have available with GM and my dealership and placing accountability where it should be. I am choosing to post my progress on this thread so everyone can see the approach I took and GMs response. I understand that others have been here before me without the best results. I am hoping that something will surface to benefit not only me, but everyone thorough this process. I am not looking for an immediate fix at this moment as I understand this issue is quite complex. But I am looking for progress, updates, and eventually a permanent fix. GM owes that to all of us. I know this thread has been a valuable tool in helping me work thorough this process. I do think someone realizes "GM, we have a problem" and they have returned to the drawing board.

So with that in mind I thought I would post some tips that are working for me to "survive" in my Cruze while I wait patiently:
1) I always have a window cracked when driving.
2) I monitor the DIC. When the temp reaches the 190s - 200s, I back the temp control to the 1:00 position.
3) The cabin appears to be more comfortable with fan switch in #3 position. If I go to fan switch 1 or 2 - 
4) I never use defrost mode unless absolutely necessary.
5) I use the heat only when necessary (hard to do in Montana during the winter).
6) I noticed that keeping my cabin properly ventilated by rolling down two windows in the garage after driving helps to eliminate any buildup of vapors and the next morning the cabin is clear of strong odors.

Is this an inconvenience? Absolutely, but I am making it manageable at this time. 

Fortunately, my wife has a 2012 Honda Odyssey which is our family vehicle. So, I choose not to transport my wife or son in the Cruze due to the nature of this problem.

After my last trip to the dealership to ensure the PI was completed correctly I took the Cruze on the road for a test drive. As the temp reached the 200s I cracked the window and "blasted the heat" - full temp control (3:00 position), fan on #4. I drove for several miles. In a short period of time I needed to purge the vehicle with fresh air.

Results:
1) Cabin reeked like antifreeze (strong smell) for an extended period of time. After parking in garage antifreeze smell in garage for several hours. (Somewhat common after driving - just appeared to be a much stronger smell then usual after this drive).
2) Appeared to have an antifreeze taste in my mouth and residue in my nostrils. This is not a common occurrence as I think it is because my commute to work is usually a short drive. It appears that I pushed the car a little harder then usual after the PI maintenance and appeared to encountered the smell at a much higher level leaving a bad taste and smell in mouth and nose. Did not last for an extended period of time, but enough to be irritating.


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## Ginaberrie (Jan 30, 2013)

Ya know, I have missed a lot of work already due to this car, this car is making my life a living ****. I would like someone, anyone to drive this car for 3 hours a day and be happy about it. 
GM knows there is an issue with this car and should not continue selling them. I did not buy a car to spend time off work going to the dealer to figure out why it is defective and trying to get it fixed so I can stand to even drive it. Exactly how long should I continue doing this? It has been going on for three months, I never know what car I will be driving next, I never have a snow brush, or gloves to clean the rental car off when it snows because my snow brush is in my stinky car at the dealership getting diagnosed, or un-diagnosed or mis-diagnosed. This is ridiculous and a huge inconvenience in my life.
And oh yes, getting in touch with the CEO's secretary is very effective. The problem with companies not being successful in this country anymore is because the lack of customer service and a company backing up their product. And we wonder why unemployment is so high...
Good customer service goes a long way, and I am not getting that.
Thanks for your support, sounds just like what I get from General Motors.


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## Ginaberrie (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks Steve, it's nice to know there is someone out there who cares.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Ginaberrie said:


> Thanks for your support, sounds just like what I get from General Motors.


OK Gina, no need to get upset with us. This is a free internet forum full of very helpful people. If you come here with a problem and get anything positive at all out of it you are ahead and it didn't cost you anything but your time. If you get nothing out of it it didn't cost you anything but your time. Even if we DID know what was wrong with your car and how to fix it, there's nothing we could do about it... you are still at the mercy of your local dealership and/or anyone you can get on the phone at GM.

This is also the internet - you need to know how to filter the information you receive to get out of it what you need. Growing a thicker skin is also a good idea as not everybody will immediately offer you a shoulder to cry on. Learn to ignore the stuff that doesn't help and focus on the stuff that does.

Having said that, we do not know the cause of this problem. Anyone on this forum who is experiencing the same issue you are is in the same boat you are. Some people have done some research and negotiated their way into having GM buy back the car. If your health and well being is at much at risk as you say it is, this should be something you are researching yourself. We are not Lemon Law lawyers.

You can be assured if there is any progress with this issue you will find out about it on this forum. This could be very helpful in dealing with your local dealer to have the issue fixed if it comes in the form of a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) or recall notice.

Please be patient and take this forum for what it is; a bunch of regular people, most of whom own a Cruze, some of whom have the same issue you do, and none of whom can (at this moment) help you out of your situation.

I wish you all the best and I hope you let us know if you make any progress in dealing with the issue. It is that type of contribution that is most valuable to others on forums like this.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

I have a question… perhaps this has been covered already, perhaps not.

When the coolant level is getting low is the dealership replacing the missing coolant with more 50/50 coolant/water mixture, or are they just topping it off with water? Is the coolant concentration being checked after several top ups?

Why I'm asking; hot pressurized coolant leaks, hot pressurized water evaporates.

A car that has had its cooling system topped up several times with a 50/50 mix should test one of two ways: Either the coolant/water ratio is still good (indicating a leak), or the ratio is skewed with too much coolant (indicating water vapour loss). Everything I'm reading so far suggests the latter, and the fact that GM has devised an interim "fix" involving a modification to the vapour vent on the overflow tank seems to confirm it.

So now my wheels start turning.

The cooling system is a closed circuit designed to operate at a certain temperature and pressure. Operating temperatures should result in operating pressures somewhere below the maximum set by the overflow tank cap pressure. If the pressure exceeds the cap set pressure the system vents, causing the coolant smell everyone is complaining about.

Something is causing the pressure in the system to increase beyond the designed operating pressure. That something is most likely coolant boiling. Localized coolant boiling causes vapour and pressure increases within the system, the vapour builds and must be vented.

This car has a turbocharger. This will be important after my next paragraph.

Cruzex pointed something out that I was not aware of, and that was the car's electronic thermostat being programmed to regulate coolant temperature above 220F in certain circumstances (I knew the Cruze ran hotter than some, but I didn't know it was that hot). The hotter the coolant is the closer it is to its boiling point, so the less cooling ability it has (ability to absorb heat from hotter engine parts) before it boils.

Back to the turbocharger. It is an exhaust driven air pump that is cooled by both oil and coolant, exhaust driven being the key word here. The coolant going to the turbocharger and oil cooler comes from the top forward facing port of the coolant outlet on the driver's side of the cylinder head. This is the smaller of the two ports, the larger one on the bottom feeds hot coolant to the radiator (the rear port feeds hot coolant to the heater core and the tube coming vertically off the top allows vapour to travel directly to the top of the overflow).

The coolant going to the turbo has already passed through the engine and is hot. The turbocharger is being heated by exhaust gasses and is cooled by the already hot coolant going to it (as well as the engine oil being supplied to its bearings). This, as far as I know, is similar to the plumbing on most turbocharged vehicles. BUT, the Cruze operates at higher coolant temperatures than most engines I know of. At highway speeds the turbocharger is getting a lot of heat from the exhaust

If the flow of coolant through the turbo is not sufficient it is possible that the coolant is vaporizing when it gets into the hot turbocharger. This would cause vapour through localized boiling of the coolant, and would increase coolant system pressure to the point of venting vapours from the overflow tank.

If this is in fact the problem, the only way to solve it would be:

1. Increase coolant flow through the turbo
2. Increase oil flow through the turbo
3. Decrease the operating temperature of the engine coolant.

1 and 2 seem doable, but I'm not sure what it would take, maybe a plumbing change is all? If there is any kind of restrictor in the coolant line to limit the feed of coolant this could be easily changed. There is a TSB regarding restricted or reduced oil flow to the turbocharger, so this could have something to do with it (339359 and 339360 read the same):

Service Bulletin 339360 for Chevrolet ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING | AutoMD

I would suggest a good starting point for anyone with this issue contact their dealer and ask if one of these two TSBs applies to their car. If it doesn't I might push harder and ask that they check it out anyway… reduced oil flow to the turbo could cause the turbo to run hot, boiling coolant or causing damage to the turbo's bearings.

3 would have implications with mileage, so I doubt that would be an option as it would require TONS of re-certification even if the numbers ended up coming out the same. Also, a reduction in coolant temperature would have to be pretty drastic to cure a problem like this… I doubt dropping the coolant temperature 5-10 degrees would eliminate this kind of issue.

I'm not sure what's going on inside this little powerplant, but the signs lead to coolant boiling somewhere and my finger would point first to the turbo.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

It sounds like Blue Angel may have hit it right on the head with this one, it would explain the loss of coolant in most of the cars with no noticeable leak elsewhere. I'm not sure if my coolant is going down since I only have 3k miles on it. So far I've had the heater core replace and I have the vent hose installed, not sure if the hose has done anything yet since I haven't driven it.

I do notice when I come home late at night, there is a hot smell coming from the car, like something is buring but not like the burning plastic smell I was getting before. Then I also hear some gurgling like something is draining, maybe its the coolant going backing into the surge tank? If the vent hose doesn't get rid of the smell, this car will be going bye bye.


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## Truepath (Feb 2, 2013)

Blue Angle, excellent analysis. Given the service bulletins you reference, it appears as though GM has observed this issue and maybe devised a fix that will impact our coolant issue. I am scheduled to bring my car to the dealer on Monday and I plan to discuss this with the service manager. Thanks for your very helpful post.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Ginaberrie said:


> Thanks Steve, it's nice to know there is someone out there who cares.


You're welcome. I know how frustrating repeated trips to the dealer can be. My Cobalt has been there so many times I should rent out a room


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Truepath said:


> Blue Angle, excellent analysis. Given the service bulletins you reference, it appears as though GM has observed this issue and maybe devised a fix that will impact our coolant issue. I am scheduled to bring my car to the dealer on Monday and I plan to discuss this with the service manager. Thanks for your very helpful post.


There's actually a software update that is supposed to cool off the turbocharger with the engine fan once the engine is shut off.

The coolant smell in my car always seemed MOST prevalent after the car had been sitting around in a parking lot and coming back to it. I'm wondering if that would help people with a similar issue.

This software package also has other benefits to it (like improved acceleration smoothness when the engine is cold). I should be having it done to my car soon, and I will fill the tank back to the proper level and see if it makes any difference whatsoever.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

See the issue with certain TSB's are unless they state your year of the car, they don't want to do it. I told my service manager about PI 0740 and he stated " that's only for the 2012 Cruze". They then waited a week with my car in the shop to confirm from a GM engineer who gave the go ahead to do the same PI I told them to do anyways.... How is one to determine if they need the 
Service Bulletin 339360 for Chevrolet ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING | AutoMD?


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

Why is it everyone gets butt hurt when they spew their issues on an open forum and don't get everyone kissing their a**? I know why. They are human. The same rule applies when I hear people whine about stuff but only do the minimal amount of work to improve their situation. The second amendment gives us both the right to say how we feel, of course, without resorting to name calling and such.
I don't have to be diplomatic about it. You don't like your situation, do something about it. You don't like what I have to say to you, don't post on an open forum on the internet. Same goes for Steve. I have the right to point out what I see to be the obvious and ridiculous.
Why the attitude? I asked if you had been to see medical professionals to help prove your case!!! Not help GM. But instead you get butt hurt over it. This kind of reaction makes me think you want out of the car because you can't afford it or don't like it and are using this as an excuse. Lord knows I have seen people try this over the years while I was a tech. Truthfully, if you are, it doesn't hurt my feelings. However, it seems to hurt yours.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I like BlueAngel's logic and I agree that these engines are very often operating at elevated temperatures which causes the things he was describing. Why? I still believe the crux of the problem is that the ECM and its software can't manage the temperature properly. I believe that this design was targeting maximizing gas mileage and lowering emissions. The side effect is that the motor just gets too hot at times. It depends on the driving environment and the engineers weren't able to predict (or test) all possible combinations of inputs. If that is true, they may take a very, very long time to come up with a fix for this design.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> There's actually a software update that is supposed to cool off the turbocharger with the engine fan once the engine is shut off... ...This software package also has other benefits to it (like improved acceleration smoothness when the engine is cold). I should be having it done to my car soon, and I will fill the tank back to the proper level and see if it makes any difference whatsoever.


Please let us know more about this update! If you can get a TSB # from your dealer and any kind of indication which years/builds of cars are affected that would be GREAT!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

blackcruzelt said:


> How is one to determine if they need the Service Bulletin 339360 for Chevrolet ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING | AutoMD ?


I have no idea... if someone else knows how to look up the full version of a TSB please let us know. It appears that website only offers part of the title, but none of the meat and potatoes of the TSB itself. Maybe talking to a service advisor at your dealership would work if you already have the TSB#?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> I still believe the crux of the problem is that the ECM and its software can't manage the temperature properly. I believe that this design was targeting maximizing gas mileage and lowering emissions. The side effect is that the motor just gets too hot at times. It depends on the driving environment and the engineers weren't able to predict (or test) all possible combinations of inputs. If that is true, they may take a very, very long time to come up with a fix for this design.


Well, it would seem so far that most of the people experiencing this issue are simply driving down the highway with the heat on... I would have thought that scenrio was well covered in their development!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Well, everything I posted regarding the cause of the problem was based on gut feelings and poor on-line parts assembly drawings, so I went out and took a little deeper look. I pulled the heat shield off the manifold/turbo to get a better feeling for what's going on down there.

The hot coolant outlet on the driver's side of the cylinder head has several ports on it, as can be seen in this picture:







The hose going straight up is the vent tube alowing vapours back to the overflow, the forward facing port below that is the coolant feed for the oil cooler and turbo (the one I'm interested in), and the large hose below that is the hot coolant supply to the rad.

Looking a little lower:







Here you can see the coolant feed line divide; the thick steel line goes down and back to the oil cooler, and a smaller line tees off of that. It's a rubber hose with expanded aluminum heat shielding pulled over it, and right where the shielding ends it changes from a rubber hose to a steel line. This is the coolant line to the turbo. If you look just below the turbo's coolant line you will see a small diameter steel line coming out of the oil filter/cooler assembly; this is the oil feed line to the turbo. Both lines pass underneath the manifold and bend forward to feed the turbo. The oil feed attaches to the top of the turbo center section, it's the large round silver bolt. Just visible down behind the turbo's center section is the coolant feed, it's the silver hex-looking thing just to the left of the oil feed.

Another view:







The rust-colored metal piece between the manifold and compressor housing is the center section of the turbo where the bearings are, and where the oil and coolant feed for cooling. Seeing how close everything is packaged with the exhaust drives home how important cooling is in these components. The turbo has oil film bearings that would get cooked if it weren't for the coolant feed.

So after looking at all this, the oil and coolant lines are both steel and are both not shielded from the radiant heat of the exhaust manifold which they pass relatively close to. In the case of the oil line, it is my understanding that many turbos use a restrictor to limit oil flow, so the flow of oil to the turbo could be happening at a fairly slow rate which would mean the oil spending more time in the steel line and potentially heating up before getting to the turbo.

The same can be said for the coolant line, but I imagine the flow rate of coolant through the line would keep heat absorbtion from the manifold relatively low (but I have no way of knowing what the flow rate actually is).

One thing I can tell you for sure is that when the engine gets to it's targeted operating temperature the coolant flow rate through the turbo will be reduced. This is because flow through the turbo is dependant on the pressure difference between the suction side of the water pump and the hot side coolant outlet. When the thermostat opens the suction side of the pump can feed from the radiator, and the high pressure coolant in the outlet is allowed to flow through the upper rad hose to the radiator (and the radiator is a large low-restriction flow path). This reduces the pressure difference across the turbo's coolant circuit, reducing the amount of flow through both the turbo and the oil cooler.

All of this so far seems to feed my theory of coolant boiling in the turbo, and would explain why the coolant vapour smell only happens after driving the car for an extended period - long enough to get the engine to its operating temperature and get the thermostat open.

Having said all that,* please remember that this is JUST A THEORY. * In no way have I proven anything here, all I'm doing is trying to figure this out. Also, I'm fairly certain that most turbocharged cars are plumbed in a similar fashion, though every engine will have its own characteristics. If I am onto something it may explain why it is taking a while for GM to come up with a fix.

Another thing that went through my mind was the actual issue of the smell in the car and how it gets there. I've read several reports of people having their heater core replaced and the problem remaining. I remember reading somewhere that there was an admission by GM that "porous" materials in some heater cores were being blamed even though there was no leaking coolant evident. Air can pass though materials that liquids can't simply because it is made up of smaller molecules. If there is vapour circulating in the cooling system, it is possible that the vapour could escape through a porous material without any coolant leaking through. Just a thought... and if this is indeed part of the problem it adds a whole other dimension to the issue and makes solving the problem that much more complicated for GM: they will be tracking two different problems with similar symptoms.

I don't know if this information will actually end up being useful or not, but it would seem that adding a small radiator or even an auxilliary pump (or both) to the turbo's coolant line could help to cure this, IF COOLANT BOILING IN THE TURBO IS THE ISSUE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Remember, I'm just posting information that may or may not have anything to do with this problem.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> How is one to determine if they need the
> Service Bulletin 339360 for Chevrolet ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING | AutoMD?


Information available on the NHTSA, Action #10050279 for 2011 -2012 Cruzes. I have a call into my service manager to discuss this service bulletin and if it affects my 2012 Cruze.

PI - 0851

CHEVROLET: THE OIL FEED PIPE NEEDS CHECKING AND REPLACED. IF RESTRICTED, AND TURBOCHARGER ASSEMBLY SHOULD BE REMOVED AND REPLACED, AND THE ECM SHOULD BE VERIFIED FOR LATEST CALIBRATION TO ALLOW TURBOCHARGE TO COOL, TO REDUCE LIKELIHOOD OF OIL COKING OIL FEED PIPE. MODELS 2011-2012 CRUZE, SONIC.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

It would appear that my '12 Eco (built in May '12) is not immune to this issue. While I was poking around under the hood I noticed my coolant is actually quite low, and there is lots of evidence of coolant vapour escaping through the vent on the overflow tank.

Note the crusty orange-ish deposits around the vent:








And the low coolant level (fill arrow is on the corner of the tank):








This means I now have a direct interest in this issue! And here I thought I was just curious for the sake of others! 

My daily commute is EXTREMELY easy on the car, so easy in fact that when it is as cold as it has been for the last month or so I doubt I'm even getting the engine to the operating temperature where the thermostat opens. HOWEVER, I was on the highway about two weeks ago with the cruise control set at 100 km/h (62 MPH) for about an hour each way, and I remember smelling something and thinking it smelled like burning plastic, but it was a very faint smell. Until I read all the reports of the same type of smell (in addition to the coolant smell) I never thought anything of it after checking under the hood to make sure nothing was actually burning of course.

For the record, I have yet to smell any coolant. At home I park outside, and at work I'm in a large-ish underground parking garage, so I wouldn't have a chance to smell any coolant vapours built up around the car. I have not smelled coolant in the car either. It will be interesting if this issue still looms in a few months when the weather warms up here... will I be choking on coolant fumes also? Am I a lucky customer with a good (non-porous) heater core? Did I just jinx myself?

I'm really curious as to two seemingly common symptoms regarding this issue:

1. Cars seem unaffected until some time/mileage passes.
2. Burning plastic smell... what the heck is it? (maybe a rubber coolant line cooking and becoming restrictive? WILD guess!)

I'm going WAY out on a limb here so take this with a grain (or bag) of salt, but it almost seems like some plastic/rubber component goes through a heat related change (burning smell) after which the coolant vapour issues start. Does anyone with the problem have a different story than that? So far from what I've read it seems to be a fairly consistent chain of events. The plot thickens...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> CHEVROLET: THE OIL FEED PIPE NEEDS CHECKING AND REPLACED. IF RESTRICTED, AND TURBOCHARGER ASSEMBLY SHOULD BE REMOVED AND REPLACED, AND THE ECM SHOULD BE VERIFIED FOR LATEST CALIBRATION TO ALLOW TURBOCHARGE TO COOL, TO REDUCE LIKELIHOOD OF OIL COKING OIL FEED PIPE. MODELS 2011-2012 CRUZE, SONIC.


Finally the whole text! Thanks!

Well, oil coking has been a problem with turbos since the beginning of time (turbo time, anyway). I seriously wonder if the two issues are related? I also wonder if replacing the turbo is necessary for the obvious reason (coked bearings and feed lines), as well as maybe changes to the coolant plumbing??? Hmm...


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## Cruze572 (Dec 20, 2011)

I just really wish someone would come up with a solution for this problem that has plagued so many cruze owners.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

Cruze572 said:


> I just really wish someone would come up with a solution for this problem that has plagued so many cruze owners.


I've given up hope to get mine fixed.

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Anyone who has this issue needs to review the following thread and contact their dealership regarding what appears to be an effective fix to this issue:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/11407-coolant-smell-resolution.html


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## Stss95 (Dec 9, 2012)

Had the PI done on my car yesterday it seemed better but didn't even last 24 hours and the smell was back. If I turn the temp down to 3/4 instead of full hot it isn't as bad. I do kinda think the coolant could be boiling or there is stuff cooking in the heater box cause it does get really hot.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Many members on this forum are working and thinking hard to help solve this problem. It appears that there are some dealerships thinking and working just as hard. A few members have reported success, but it appears that each one has had a different scenario. It is always exciting when someone posts a repair that appears to have helped solved the problem. The hope is that the problem was resolved and the data reported will help GM, the dealerships, and other Cruze owners. I believe this still remains a complex issue, but every post that is reporting success is one step closer to the solution. I think there is another challenge that complicates this problem and that is the level of experience of technicians at the dealership. As we know it takes an experienced technician or team to tackle a problem as complicated as this one appears. It took my dealership 3 times to get the PI done correctly and that was with my assistance. I am not saying that my dealership is incompetent. I know I could drop off my car and have them replace the water pump, heater core, remove the dash, work on the ventilation system, etc. and get the car back with/without the same problem. I would rather take my car in knowing the problem has a permanent fix instead of "gutting" my car trying to solve the problem part by part. It is cheaper for the dealerships to do all the troubleshooting and solution finding rather than GM. I think it is great that we have dealerships wanting to help us find a solution. But the bottom line is that GM is responsible and hopefully they are working daily behind the scenes with us and the dealerships to help solve the problem. My GM rep or service manager has not returned my calls these past few days. This is unusual. Both my GM rep and service manager have been punctual in returning calls on time. Not sure what's up, but I will wait to see what's next.


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## chaser x (Sep 3, 2012)

Sorry to ask this but what do i look for? i forget what coolant smells like because i cant smell anything while driving.


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## Patman1776 (Feb 8, 2013)

I have a 2013 eco mt on order, and this thread is really causing me to pause. Sounds like this is a common issue, and there is no final fix from GM. I really was impressed with this car during my test drive, and research, but should I think twice about this purchase? Is this the same old crappy GM quality?


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## Patman1776 (Feb 8, 2013)

I have a 2013 eco mt on order, and this thread is really causing me to pause. Sounds like this is a common issue, and there is no final fix from GM. I really was impressed with this car during my test drive, and research, but should I think twice about this purchase? Is this the same old crappy GM quality?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

chaser x said:


> ...i cant smell anything while driving.


If you don't have any issues with odors in the car and your coolant level is not low or decreasing, you are not affected by this issue.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Patman1776 said:


> I have a 2013 eco mt on order, and this thread is really causing me to pause. Sounds like this is a common issue, and there is no final fix from GM. I really was impressed with this car during my test drive, and research, but should I think twice about this purchase? Is this the same old crappy GM quality?


There's a high chance you won't even have this issue, but should you have it, I am confident that there will be an effective and permanent fix for it. I wouldn't make a purchasing decision on this car based on the possibility of this issue.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

More "progress" with investigating this issue.

I went out at lunchtime at work yesterday to run an errand and left the heater control set to full cold the whole time to get the car nice and hot. It was snowing quite heavily yesterday also, so pushing the car around through deep snow is extra work for this little engine and gets it heated up real quick. When I got back into my underground parking I sniffed around the edge of the hood and could smell coolant.

So on my way home from work yesterday for the last 10 minutes of my drive I set the heater to full cold again to get the car as hot as possible. I pulled into the garage and shut the car off, immediately popped the hood and recorded this video (you might have to turn up the volume a bit to hear it properly):

Boiling Coolant 2 - YouTube

Low and behold, beneath all of the popping and creaking of cooling metal parts (which is normal by the way) you can hear the sound of air bubbles making their way through the turbo/oil cooler coolant feed line. This means there IS localized boiling of coolant in either the turbo or oil cooler, and I'd put my money on the turbo being the culprit.

NOW BEFORE WE JUMP TO ANY CONCLUSIONS, all I've shown here is that there's enough residual heat in the turbo after shutting the engine off to boil the coolant inside of it. Whether or not the turbo actually boils coolant while the engine is running is another question I'm not sure I'll be able to answer, but I will offer this information. I was driving the car very easily at low speeds (without the heater going) on clear plowed roads prior to parking it in the garage, and was doing so in -12C (10F) weather. When I opened the hood there was a very faint smell of coolant, not strong at all but it was there. I could not detect any vapour escaping from the vent on the overflow tank. I would guess that someone blasting down the interstate at 80 MPH on a 100F day would be introducing thermal loads far greater than what I have done here.

Whether the Oil Feed TSB discussed above has anything to do with this issue I don't know, but it certainly seems like the two could be related (reducing either oil or coolant flow to the turbo will cause it to heat up more). It would be interesting to see someone with the coolant vapour problem have the TSB done and report back their findings. I will be contacting my dealership to see if the TSB applies to my car, and if it does I will try to get them to show me the whole TSB so I can understand exactly what is going on with the fix and what it does and does not address. If the turbo is boiling off the coolant in it after the engine shuts down, the turbo's center section could be getting hot enough to "coke" oil in the bearings and feed lines.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Patman1776 said:


> I have a 2013 eco mt on order, and this thread is really causing me to pause.


I agree with XR. I wouldn't let a "potential" issue like this influence a buying decision. Any issue such as this will definitely have a fix coming, and it now looks like there may be two issues in play here, the most severe of which (coolant smell inside the car) appears to have been solved in the other thread. Sure it's only a one car sample at this point, but there is some very convincing information there and it sounds like it could be a legitimate solution. Also keep in mind how many hundreds of thousands of Cruzes there are running around. Not everyone has these issues.

I just got my '12 Eco MT in July last summer and I'm loving it so far. I'm sure you'll love yours too.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Patman1776 said:


> I have a 2013 eco mt on order, and this thread is really causing me to pause. Sounds like this is a common issue, and there is no final fix from GM. I really was impressed with this car during my test drive, and research, but should I think twice about this purchase? Is this the same old crappy GM quality?


It sounds like you have done your homework shopping for a vehicle. It appears that this is not a common problem with many Cruzes. I really like my Cruze, feel that it is a well built vehicle and overall a fantastic vehicle. I have not had any further problems other than the antifreeze issue. Honestly, if they offer me a deal for another GM vehicle to include a Cruze I would consider. This is my first GM vehicle. I have owned 4 Subaru's and I will report that I feel Subaru designs a fantastic vehicle. I have never had problems with a Subaru, but did have recalls and they fixed the problem. Other then the recalls the only thing I ever replaced on my Subaru's were "wear and tear" items after thousands of miles. My last Subaru was 2008 Outback and I loved the vehicle. It was great as an all-wheel drive and just an overall fantastic car. I ended trading it in so my wife could get a 2012 Honda Odyssey as a family vehicle. Later we needed a second vehicle so I bought a 2012 Cruze. So, I am giving GM the opportunity to stand up and honor it's commitment to fix this problem. The competition is competitive in the auto industry and GM knows that other manufacturers are designing some awesome vehicles. So, what I am saying is don't allow this issue to have you second guess the quality of the Cruze or GM. GM knows that if they don't stand up for their products then eventually productivity and sells will head on the downward slope. I think people are becoming more attentive to not impulsively purchase a vehicle, but to do their homework like you before a purchase. I think GM with other auto manufacturers know this. I shopped for approximately 2 months before considering the Cruze. You have to make the call, but all vehicles are recalled for some design flaw or they need some tweaking. Unfortunately, my Cruze is having this issue, but somehow, someway it is going to get resolved.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

OK, so I've done some reading. I Googled "turbo coolant boiling" and found lots of people claiming that coolant boiling inside the turbo is normal after shutting the car off. The hot turbo will cause the hotter coolant to rise and cause thermosiphoning (hot coolant rising flow) similar to the way a tank circulation block heater works.

What I still don't know is whether this boiling is enough to cause the pressure in the system to exceed the cap relief pressure and vent vapours. I also don't know if there's coolant boiling inside the turbo while the engine is running and there's coolant flow through the turbo. I would assume no, but there's that TSB thing that still needs to be looked into.

Does anyone feel like putting a camera under the hood of their car to record the venting of coolant vapours from the overflow?


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

Well, I am now a member of "club stinky"... This past week I noticed a strong coolant smell in my garage. I looked at the coolant level this am (car was cold) and it was one "line" from the bottom. I have had the car just over 2 mos and it rolled 7k today. I stopped by my local Chevy dealer (never been there- this is my first GM) and asked the service guy about it. He stated it was a well known problem and that a "good fix" is in the works... whatever that might mean.

I asked about an appt to have it checked, but need a loaner. They do not offer loaners there, so I will check other Chevy dealers in the area to see who wants to help me. Anybody in the Denver area have a recommendation?

I absolutely love this car, and am sure that this issue (the only one I have) will be resolved soon.


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## Patman1776 (Feb 8, 2013)

I appreciate all the responses to my concerns over this issue. I really do like this car. I looked at the Focus, Mazda 3, Elantra, and spent over a month reading every major review out there, and following Cruzetalk. At the end of the day, the Cruze Eco seems the best fit for me. As a Quality Manager for a Medical Device Company, I get a bit anal about these things, and I don't want to over react to this one issue. As long as GM truly is working on a permanent fix, I have no problem going forward with my purchase. By the way, this is the first GM product I ever thought looked, and felt, of sufficient quality to warrant my consideration.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

milehigh - did they at least refill your coolant level for you?


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

BigSkyMontana said:


> It sounds like you have done your homework shopping for a vehicle. It appears that this is not a common problem with many Cruzes. I really like my Cruze, feel that it is a well built vehicle and overall a fantastic vehicle. I have not had any further problems other than the antifreeze issue. Honestly, if they offer me a deal for another GM vehicle to include a Cruze I would consider. This is my first GM vehicle. I have owned 4 Subaru's and I will report that I feel Subaru designs a fantastic vehicle. I have never had problems with a Subaru, but did have recalls and they fixed the problem. Other then the recalls the only thing I ever replaced on my Subaru's were "wear and tear" items after thousands of miles. My last Subaru was 2008 Outback and I loved the vehicle. It was great as an all-wheel drive and just an overall fantastic car. I ended trading it in so my wife could get a 2012 Honda Odyssey as a family vehicle. Later we needed a second vehicle so I bought a 2012 Cruze. So, I am giving GM the opportunity to stand up and honor it's commitment to fix this problem. The competition is competitive in the auto industry and GM knows that other manufacturers are designing some awesome vehicles. So, what I am saying is don't allow this issue to have you second guess the quality of the Cruze or GM. GM knows that if they don't stand up for their products then eventually productivity and sells will head on the downward slope. I think people are becoming more attentive to not impulsively purchase a vehicle, but to do their homework like you before a purchase. I think GM with other auto manufacturers know this. I shopped for approximately 2 months before considering the Cruze. You have to make the call, but all vehicles are recalled for some design flaw or they need some tweaking. Unfortunately, my Cruze is having this issue, but somehow, someway it is going to get resolved.


Just curious why you didn't buy an Impreza. I test drove one and that's my go to car if the 2014 Cruze doesn't get any improvements.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

steve333 said:


> Just curious why you didn't buy an Impreza.


My wonderful wife. She's not a Subaru lover. Kind of a trade off - she got the Honda - I got my Cruze . I really liked the drive, build, and economical stats about the Cruze.


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## Truepath (Feb 2, 2013)

Chevy Customer Service said:


> Truepath,
> I would like to apologize for the issues that you are having with your Cruze. I would like to look into this for you. Can you please send me a PM with your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer? I look forward to hearing back from you.
> Thank you,
> Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


Stacy, I sent you a PM, but haven't heard from you.


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

No offer to top off my coolant. They did not really seem to care. 


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

BigSkyMontana said:


> My wonderful wife. She's not a Subaru lover. Kind of a trade off - she got the Honda - I got my Cruze . I really liked the drive, build, and economical stats about the Cruze.


Cool. I'm also considering the VW Golf. It seems to be more reliable than the other VWs and the interior wasn't dumbed down like the Jetta.
I still want to wait until the end of the year to see what the 2014 Cruze is like.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

VWs =/= reliable. The 2.5 is more reliable than the TDI and 2.0T, but it's still a VW and they are plagued with electrical nightmares. Too bad. They're very much drivers cars and fantastic to drive. I love the Golf - woulda bought the TDI if it weren't $26,000. 


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

my car smells like coolant but then again i do believe its leaking somewhere and my engine light is on. I better add some coolant for my drive to the dealership on monday.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

jblackburn said:


> VWs =/= reliable. The 2.5 is more reliable than the TDI and 2.0T, but it's still a VW and they are plagued with electrical nightmares. Too bad. They're very much drivers cars and fantastic to drive. I love the Golf - woulda bought the TDI if it weren't $26,000.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Thats why I never considered them but the Golf does intrigue me. I'll do more research on reliability-I would buy the 2.5 if I went for it.
On thing I love about the Golf-lumbar controls in the seat, plus I like the teutonic dashboard and the fact they have been making them for years at the same plant in Germany


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> More "progress" with investigating this issue.
> 
> I went out at lunchtime at work yesterday to run an errand and left the heater control set to full cold the whole time to get the car nice and hot. It was snowing quite heavily yesterday also, so pushing the car around through deep snow is extra work for this little engine and gets it heated up real quick. When I got back into my underground parking I sniffed around the edge of the hood and could smell coolant.
> 
> ...


I had a similar coolant sound this fall. With the engine really cold I removed the radiator cap and added about 2 cups of fluid. Since then I have not heard this coolant sound. I had thought it was air in the coolant system. 

I've popped the hood and smelled the engine compartment every day for the last month after coming home from a 30 mile drive. My bottle is also showing signs of venting with water marks on the plastic similar to the pictures above. 

I thought adding coolant addressed that boiling coolant sucking sound.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

carbon02 said:


> I thought adding coolant addressed that boiling coolant sucking sound.


I haven't topped off my coolant yet, it is still a little low. I'm planning to pick up some distilled water tonight and top it up.

With the reservoir at a higher level, the system pressure should be higher since there is less air to compress. It is possible that the higher pressure could raise the boiling point of the coolant slightly, which could reduce coolant boiling in the turbo. I don't think it would eliminate it, but it could reduce it.

Another thought is that maybe the coolant level drops (venting after shut-off) until the volume of air in the overflow is great enough to allow the turbo to boil coolant without pushing the system pressure above the cap relief pressure. Hmmm... I will have to check this out. Every time I've shut the car off and checked for venting I haven't seen it happening, but my reservoir level was already low. If I top off the reservoir and the venting starts after shut-off, this could be it.

I can smell coolant when I pop the hood even with the engine running, but the smell does not seem to be coming from the overflow. It seems to come from the hot water outlet from the cylinder head area, since putting my nose down around the vent tube to the overflow seems to get the most potent smell, but that said the smell is still pretty slight, not strong at all. My coolant level has not appeared to drop since I started checking it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Smell locations can be quite misleading in a hot engine bay. Just saying. 

Also, I'm not too sure if the coolant is actually boiling. You can achieve a pretty effective thermal siphon without reaching boiling temperatures, which by the way are very high for antifreeze/coolant. 

We have identified the water pump as a known issue where a pinhole leak exists (may not even be big enough to notice). That will certainly be the source of some peoples' problems. Between that, the grease in the HVAC box, and the overflow tank relieving excess pressure from the system right near the HVAC intake, it's not exactly a simple identification of the problem. 

We aren't aware of any other leaks in the engine bay aside from that water pump.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I haven't topped off my coolant yet, it is still a little low. I'm planning to pick up some distilled water tonight and top it up.
> 
> With the reservoir at a higher level, the system pressure should be higher since there is less air to compress. It is possible that the higher pressure could raise the boiling point of the coolant slightly, which could reduce coolant boiling in the turbo. I don't think it would eliminate it, but it could reduce it.
> 
> ...


Dropping the coolant level to the bottom of the arrow seems to have stopped the venting through the cap/tube for me. When it was higher, there was constantly a coolant smell any time it got up to temp from the teens - 40F.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

My Cruze was delivered new with coolant in the reservior tank just covering the outlet hose on the bottom of the reservior tank. With new car designs the coolant addition point is not neccessarly the highest point of the coolant system. They are filled via vacuum at the factory, and getting coolant to simply flow by gravity from the radiator cap area has become more difficult. 

The old coolant bottles used to have a full cold line, and a full hot line. With the cruze I only see one arrow, which in my opinion is really hard to see. 

I agree that probably filling the bottle cold all the way up to line cold may cause excess bleeding when it gets hot. 

A 50/50 mixture with a 15 psi cap boils at 265 psi I believe. The cruze is a 20 psi system with even more safety cushion.

I see that Rockauto has Coolant Caps for the cruze. Has anyone tried an aftermarket coolant cap? For $5.00 I may add one to my next order just to try it.

I always thought having a coolant cap release, caused the internal springs in the cap to wear, and not hold pressure again. 

However others have gotten original GM cap replacements and have seen similar issues reoccur.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Smell locations can be quite misleading in a hot engine bay. Just saying.


Yep - I'm being really general. When I put my nose right up to the vent on the overflow I can't smell anything, but hovering my nose around the small coolant tube that runs from the hot water outlet to the overflow reveals a very slight coolant-like smell. This is generally over the hot water outlet on the side of the cylinder head where four hoses and a coolant temp sensor all hook into the outlet, and the outlet itself mounts and seals to the cylinder head. Lots of potential there for a leaky joint, but I won't get worried about it until I get a closer look down there.

For all I know what I'm smelling could be the smell of the coolant seeping through the rubber hose... it's very faint, but is only noticeable in that area.



XtremeRevolution said:


> Also, I'm not too sure if the coolant is actually boiling. You can achieve a pretty effective thermal siphon without reaching boiling temperatures, which by the way are very high for antifreeze/coolant.


Did you get a chance to see the video I posted? In the video you can clearly hear bubbles travelling through the turbo's coolant supply line. What you can't hear in the video is the low rumbling "hiss" of the coolant boiling inside the turbo. It sounds kinda like a block heater.

The next time you drive your car, turn the heat off several minutes before getting to your destination to get her nice and hot, turn off the ignition, pop the hood and stick your head down by the manifold. Within about 30 seconds or so from turning off the engine you'll hear a noise similar to a kid trying to slurp the last few drops of his drink out of the bottom of the glass with a straw. Then listen closer, beyond all the clicking and popping of cooling metal, and you'll hear the boiling coolant in the turbo. You'll need to be in a quiet environment to hear this, I didn't notice it until I listened in my garage with the door closed.

I did a quick Google search on this and it seems to be quite common in turbocharged vehicles. Yes, the boiling point of coolant is quite high (~265F), but the temperature of exhaust parts is much higher than that. Once the heat soaks in the coolant will boil.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Dropping the coolant level to the bottom of the arrow seems to have stopped the venting through the cap/tube for me. When it was higher, there was constantly a coolant smell any time it got up to temp from the teens - 40F.


Well, this would back up my theory. I'm going to do a little experimenting. My coolant is low, but for all I know the level dropped quickly when I bought the car and hasn't moved in a while. I will post my findings.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> I did a quick Google search on this and it seems to be quite common in turbocharged vehicles. Yes, the boiling point of coolant is quite high (~265F), but the temperature of exhaust parts is much higher than that. Once the heat soaks in the coolant will boil.


Considering that turbos can reach darn near the temps of exhaust valves (800-1400 deg F), depending on the load, that makes sense.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

carbon02 said:


> My Cruze was delivered new with coolant in the reservior tank just covering the outlet hose on the bottom of the reservior tank...
> 
> ...However others have gotten original GM cap replacements and have seen similar issues reoccur.


I'm one of them... both of my Saturns and my Corvette used the same type of tank cap, and I've had to replace them on both cars. In both situations they allowed water vapour to escape, letting the system go low. The 'Vette went low enough that air got into the system, the pump cavitated and the car started overheating on me on the highway.

EDIT: I haven't checked, but it's possible the Cruze still uses the same cap design? I'll have to look when the 'Vette comes out fo rthe summer... I hope not!

Interesting about the coolant level on delivery. Mine is a '12 also, and I never thought to look at the coolant level when it was new. When was yours built?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm one of them... both of my Saturns and my Corvette used the same type of tank cap, and I've had to replace them on both cars. In both situations they allowed water vapour to escape, letting the system go low. The 'Vette went low enough that air got into the system, the pump cavitated and the car started overheating on me on the highway.
> 
> Interesting about the coolant level on delivery. Mine is a '12 also, and I never thought to look at the coolant level when it was new. When was yours built?


Mine was low from the factory (just above the neck). 10/11 build date. Not sure if it ever LOST any coolant - that's just where it was to begin with when I first looked ~3000 miles. Smells began when I topped it off.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Well, it all makes sense that the coolant would boil given the heat. I had thought it might circulate quickly enough through the turbo to keep from boiling, but I didn't have any basis on which to think that.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The fill point in the Cruze is the highest point in the coolant system. You definitely need more coolant because your coolant level is so low that air will be sucked into the cooling system.


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## ConsideringACruze (Jan 7, 2013)

Patman1776 said:


> I have a 2013 eco mt on order, and this thread is really causing me to pause. Sounds like this is a common issue, and there is no final fix from GM. I really was impressed with this car during my test drive, and research, but should I think twice about this purchase? Is this the same old crappy GM quality?


I thought twice about it. I'm waiting here to see what the resolution of the issue is before I plunge in with a purchase. I don't need a $20,000 headache.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> The fill point in the Cruze is the highest point in the coolant system. You definitely need more coolant because your coolant level is so low that air will be sucked into the cooling system.


So long as it has an inch or two margin above the intake tube when cold, you're fine. It's more just an overflow tank in case there's really a leak somewhere. Liquid doesn't expand significantly when close to boiling, but there is a very small difference. That said, unless there is a leak, you'll never be sucking in air if the tank is filled above that hose.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

ConsideringACruze said:


> I thought twice about it. I'm waiting here to see what the resolution of the issue is before I plunge in with a purchase. I don't need a $20,000 headache.


Smart move


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

ConsideringACruze said:


> I thought twice about it. I'm waiting here to see what the resolution of the issue is before I plunge in with a purchase. I don't need a $20,000 headache.


Seeing what other people have posted recently about their cars being low on coolant at delivery makes me think GM has done this intentionally to avoid this issue. As jblackburn pointed out, in his case the coolant level was low on delivery and he didn't experience any coolant odors until filling the overflow beyond that level.

I have not experienced ANY coolant smell inside my car at all. The only time I smell any coolant is if I pop the hood right after driving and stick my nose down near the hoses. That isn't a problem in my book. Though I CAN see evidence of vapour escaping the vent on the overflow bottle, that would be considered "normal" as that's why the vent is there. I am interested in this "issue" purely from a geeky Engineering point of view... I love looking into things and figuring them out, as in I like to know what's going on and exactly WHY things happen the way they do.

I bought some distilled water last night and plan to top up the reservoir to the cold fill mark after work today. If my car starts venting coolant when topped off but stops again after the coolant level drops, I would say that's a pretty good indication that this issue is under control. At that point it would just be a matter of GM letting people know that the coolant "fill" level had been revised.

We should be really close to hearing feedback about what appears to be the main cause of the "coolant" smell inside the car, which appears right now to be simply a few cars built with either too much grease on parts of the heater core vent module, or just some grease in the wrong place. Regarding odors from teh overflow tank venting, if GM has intentionally reduced the coolant fill level to resolve this, all new car builds should be without this issue and any cars built before this fix came into effect will have a temporary venting issue that will pass as soon as enough water vapour escapes and the coolant level drops in the tank.

If my mother needed a new car tomorrow I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Cruze. It has been a great car for the 8 months I've owned it, I am VERY happy so far.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

New developments on the coolant inside the car smell... it would appear GM is on it already:



XtremeRevolution said:


> Anyone who has this issue needs to review the following thread and contact their dealership regarding what appears to be an effective fix to this issue:
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/11407-coolant-smell-resolution.html


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

We've heard of many people saying "GM is aware of the issue" but no actual fix yet. I spoke with my GM district Rep and she has no idea about any of this. I've had the heater core changed out, and the PI done for the vent tube and it is still doing it.So I've got the general manager of my dealership calling Chevy to get the ball rolling on a buy-back, I've had enough of this issue.


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## Patman1776 (Feb 8, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> We've heard of many people saying "GM is aware of the issue" but no actual fix yet. I spoke with my GM district Rep and she has no idea about any of this. I've had the heater core changed out, and the PI done for the vent tube and it is still doing it.So I've got the general manager of my dealership calling Chevy to get the ball rolling on a buy-back, I've had enough of this issue.


Why not have them look into the fix in the "coolant smell resolution" thread, and also check out the coolant level as mentioned in the Blue Angel's post? Educate them if your district rep has no idea. I'm going forward with my 2013 ECO MT purchase, as it appears to me there IS some movement to rectify this issue.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

blackcruzelt,

There appear to be two different issues that potentially cause the same problem; coolant venting under the hood, and lubricant heating up in the heater box. Based on information posted by several different members, it is looking more and more like the "coolant smell in the car" issue is caused by the latter and may have nothing to do with the under hood venting (which may turn into a non-issue).

If you read that other post you will see that yes, GM has known about the issue for some time, but they've just been informed of a fix within the last few days. Word of that fix appears to be spreading through the dealership network; we're just waiting for evidence that it is curing the issue on other vehicles (it has apparently worked on one car with the issue).

If you are convinced that you want to do the buyback, that's OK. BUT, if you are otherwise happy with the car and don't mind giving them another crack at fixing it, give this a try and report back with your reslults.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> blackcruzelt,
> 
> There appear to be two different issues that potentially cause the same problem; coolant venting under the hood, and lubricant heating up in the heater box. Based on information posted by several different members, it is looking more and more like the "coolant smell in the car" issue is caused by the latter and may have nothing to do with the under hood venting (which may turn into a non-issue).
> 
> ...


The above is why I insisted so many times in these threads that people just calm down and give GM a chance to fix it. There is always something else going on. I can see why it took GM so long; because they get reports in from people saying "we smell antifreeze" and many people smell absolutely no antifreeze! What they smell is something similar to antifreeze, but who would have thought that it's the grease inside the HVAC box creating the smell? 

There's a difference between toxic antifreeze vapors and an uncomfortable odor coming off of grease. Not saying that some people didn't have any issues with the antifreeze smell, but as you pointed out, many people were most likely just smelling the grease. They thought GM was failing it up left and right because they couldn't find an antifreeze problem when there was no antifreeze problem. Need to learn to give it some time guys.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The above is why I insisted so many times in these threads that people just calm down and give GM a chance to fix it. There is always something else going on. I can see why it took GM so long; because they get reports in from people saying "we smell antifreeze" and many people smell absolutely no antifreeze! What they smell is something similar to antifreeze, but who would have thought that it's the grease inside the HVAC box creating the smell?
> 
> There's a difference between toxic antifreeze vapors and an uncomfortable odor coming off of grease. Not saying that some people didn't have any issues with the antifreeze smell, but as you pointed out, many people were most likely just smelling the grease. They thought GM was failing it up left and right because they couldn't find an antifreeze problem when there was no antifreeze problem. Need to learn to give it some time guys.


I had bad smells from the heater when I first bought the car, but I just attributed it to new plastics, etc. I bought the car in the spring, and I just ran it with the heater on full hot with the windows down for ~30 minutes. 

It still occasionally smells like hot plastic once it gets good and hot, and that's because it is just hot plastic. The vents and ducts get HOT - consider that a typical home gas forced air system puts out air roughly around 160-170F; the Cruze is putting it out well over 200F. That little metal thing on the vent hurts if you touch it.

I still think many are experiencing a smell from the expansion tank/cap itself, as it definitely smells like coolant OUTSIDE the car, and that vapor is drawn straight into the air intake.

This grease does also not explain why coolant smells suddenly started for people that had their car last winter and suddenly appeared with 10-15,000 miles on them.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

milehigh said:


> Well, I am now a member of "club stinky"... This past week I noticed a strong coolant smell in my garage. I looked at the coolant level this am (car was cold) and it was one "line" from the bottom. I have had the car just over 2 mos and it rolled 7k today. I stopped by my local Chevy dealer (never been there- this is my first GM) and asked the service guy about it. He stated it was a well known problem and that a "good fix" is in the works... whatever that might mean.
> 
> I asked about an appt to have it checked, but need a loaner. They do not offer loaners there, so I will check other Chevy dealers in the area to see who wants to help me. Anybody in the Denver area have a recommendation?
> 
> I absolutely love this car, and am sure that this issue (the only one I have) will be resolved soon.




milehigh,
I would like to apologize for the issues that you are experiencing with your Cruze. I do understand your concerns with this. I would be happy to get you a service request open for you with GM. In order for me to do this I will need to gather some additional information from you. Can you please send me a PM with your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer? I look forward to hearing back from you. 
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> I had bad smells from the heater when I first bought the car, but I just attributed it to new plastics, etc. I bought the car in the spring, and I just ran it with the heater on full hot with the windows down for ~30 minutes.
> 
> It still occasionally smells like hot plastic once it gets good and hot, and that's because it is just hot plastic. The vents and ducts get HOT - consider that a typical home gas forced air system puts out air roughly around 160-170F; the Cruze is putting it out well over 200F. That little metal thing on the vent hurts if you touch it.
> 
> ...


Well, here's the thing. I never smelled it in the summer. Never smelled it in the fall, or the spring. I only smelled it during the winter, and I only smelled it strongly enough to note on this forum that I'm finally smelling what other people when I blasted the heat on the maximum setting. It should have clicked to me that the cause of this was running more heat through the HVAC system. I can get out of my car, open the hood, and it still smells like antifreeze, but I never smell it inside the car unless the heat is on a very high setting. 

It does explain it perfectly well if they bought their car last year, when temperatures in the midwest were clear into the mid 40s for most of the winter, thus not requiring the use of high heat. It was a VERY mild winter for us. If they bought it January or February of last year, they would have gone an entire year (or 10,000-18,000 miles) before they had to blast the heat this winter, and if the grease requires heat in order to emit its odor, it wouldn't have happened until now.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> This grease does also not explain why coolant smells suddenly started for people that had their car last winter and suddenly appeared with 10-15,000 miles on them.


It could be that it takes time/heat to break it down enough to cause noticeable smells, who knows. These things can be really tricky to nail down. Cars are very complicated systems and sometimes what you think may be causing the problem has absolutely nothing to do with it. Troubleshooting things like this is a profession that some people devote an entire career to, and even then they're struggling to hit curveballs all the time.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> I had bad smells from the heater when I first bought the car, but I just attributed it to new plastics, etc. I bought the car in the spring, and I just ran it with the heater on full hot with the windows down for ~30 minutes.
> 
> It still occasionally smells like hot plastic once it gets good and hot, and that's because it is just hot plastic. The vents and ducts get HOT - consider that a typical home gas forced air system puts out air roughly around 160-170F; the Cruze is putting it out well over 200F. That little metal thing on the vent hurts if you touch it.
> 
> ...


Excessive glycol based grease can explain why it's taking so long for some cars to start stinking. The excess grease is overheating and breaking down, releasing fumes as it does so. It takes time for this to occur.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

unitednations161 said:


> my car smells like coolant but then again i do believe its leaking somewhere and my engine light is on. I better add some coolant for my drive to the dealership on monday.




unitednations161,
I would like you to keep me posted on the progress with your dealer. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me anytime.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## commutertg (Feb 2, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> We've heard of many people saying "GM is aware of the issue" but no actual fix yet. I spoke with my GM district Rep and she has no idea about any of this. I've had the heater core changed out, and the PI done for the vent tube and it is still doing it.So I've got the general manager of my dealership calling Chevy to get the ball rolling on a buy-back, I've had enough of this issue.


Please see my thread on coolant smell resolution as my issue was resolved. It was not the heater core, but excessive glycol based lubricant, hence the coolant type smell. The lubricant is on the vent and components in the dash and when heated and cooled it breaksdown and gives off the odor. I was ready to bail also, but the dealer was persistent and found the problem, then resolved.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

commutertg said:


> Please see my thread on coolant smell resolution as my issue was resolved. It was not the heater core, but excessive glycol based lubricant, hence the coolant type smell. The lubricant is on the vent and components in the dash and when heated and cooled it breaksdown and gives off the odor. I was ready to bail also, but the dealer was persistent and found the problem, then resolved.


I've read that thread already, I'm fairly skeptical that "Grease" is the culprit of this problem. Sounds like a really easy fix, that took 3 years to figure out? Sounds too good to be true.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> I've read that thread already, I'm fairly skeptical that "Grease" is the culprit of this problem. Sounds like a really easy fix, that took 3 years to figure out? Sounds too good to be true.


So take it in and mention it to your dealership, then report back. So far, it's 2 out of 2 members with no smells after getting that specific grease issue resolved.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Who else other then Commutertg has reported success? Also maybe some diagrams or pictures of where this excess "Grease" is, would help too. Don't really want some tech just tearing apart my entire dash if its not a pin pointed area.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> Who else other then Commutertg has reported success? Also maybe some diagrams or pictures of where this excess "Grease" is, would help too. Don't really want some tech just tearing apart my entire dash if its not a pin pointed area.


If you read the thread more carefully, you'll notice that GM has actually contacted dealerships across the nation specifically instructing what to do and where to do it. This isn't just a "word of mouth" type of thing where one dealer told another dealer and so forth. GM sent out this notice to all dealerships to perform this service on their vehicles. If you walk into a dealership and tell them you know about it, they'll say "yeah, GM told us about it recently." 

I haven't taken my car in yet, but it sure sounds like they're on to something.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

For all those thinking it can't be it, consider this. In 1998 there was a bulletin that finally came out for a oil smell coming from the engine area of the U-vans (Venture, Transport) especially after an oil change. This was the 3.4 engine. NO oil leaks. No problems with the evap or pcv systems. Not coming front wheel bearings or ball joints. 
The rear main seal was the cause. It was the material it was made of that caused the issue.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> I've read that thread already, I'm fairly skeptical that "Grease" is the culprit of this problem. Sounds like a really easy fix, that took 3 years to figure out? Sounds too good to be true.


Glycol based grease in the ducting would easily explain the smells I get. First, I only get them when I'm using the heater - I can run my fan on 4 with the A/C on or with just outside air and I get no smell other than from the feed lot I'm currently driving by or the diesel exhaust from the diesel SUV that just blew by me or vice versa, so I know I'm getting outside air. Second, the smell is only really bad when I use my windshield defroster. Any other position for the vents when running the heater is tolerable even though I do get some smell. This tells me the smell source must be either the heater core or in the ducting with the bulk of the duct based smell being in the duct that is opened when using the defroster.

As an engineer I can understand why it took so long to figure this out. If you look at all the reports of anti-freeze mysteriously dissappearing from the car, combined with a small percentage of faulty water pumps and water pump seals, combined with the fact that this grease and anti-freeze are both glycol based so they have very similar odors, you get a really strange set of circumstances that make troubleshooting extremely hard. Having a dealership technician find out about this grease was literally a stroke of luck and now allows GM to focus on not one large hard problem, but two smaller and separate problems - one (maybe two) in the engine bay and one in the passenger cabin. Having that same dealership's management feed this information back to GM corporate was priceless as GM is now passing this information along to all their dealerships.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

How is GM alerting the dealerships? I was surprised to see nothing in the Feb. 11th issue of Techlink. Did they do it in last week's Emerging Issues VOD? It's not scheduled in the one on tomorrow.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Does anyone know if the 2013 Cruze's are affected regarding the glycol based lubricant in the HVAC boxes?

Update: My dealership informed me that GM engineering contacted him to contact me regarding my temp control knob position relating to the smell coming into the cabin. My service manager informed me that GM wanted me to back off my temp control from the 3:00 to the 1:00 position and report the findings. I informed my service manager that I do back off the temp control when it starts reaching 190 - 200 to allow fresh air to mix to help purge the smell. He informed me that he would report this to GM. Apparently they are aware of the HVAC lubricant issue after I mentioned it to the service manager. My service manager did mention that it appears that GM is possibly looking into a PI regarding the lubricant issue.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Does anyone know if the 2013 Cruze's are affected regarding the glycol based lubricant in the HVAC boxes? My dealership informed me that GM engineering contacted them and they wanted me to give them info regarding my temp control knob position relating to the smell coming into the cabin. I was also informed that GM is currently writing a PI for the HVAC lubricant issue.


I'll let you know tomorrow, my 2013 LT is going in tomorrow to have this grease checked. GM wants them to check it before we proceed with the buy-back.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> How is GM alerting the dealerships? I was surprised to see nothing in the Feb. 11th issue of Techlink. Did they do it in last week's Emerging Issues VOD? It's not scheduled in the one on tomorrow.


Keep us posted on this. I would imagine they are working on an Engineering-based identification/troubleshooting/repair procedure that could take a little time to formalize. The news of the problem's source and fix is litterally a few days old. Once they confirm the issue (and any other intricacies that may be related that we here would not anticipate), they will also need to work with the supplier to identify an immediate containment solution as well as identify, if possible, which vehicles may have been affected, and then develop an improved process for producing/supplying these HVAC assemblies. As owners and forum members we simply cannot appreciate the scope of an issue like this.

I would imagine right now it is being spread verbally as a method of dealing with extreme cases first, and widespread deployment will follow.


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## william10609 (Dec 13, 2012)

Ginaberrie, I received a rapid response from GM after I filed With BBB AUTO LINE, it will get you a new case # and GM wants these resolved. This vehicle sounds like mine, just no good solution.I asked my mechs about the grease and they do not remember any when they changed the heater core. MY new Sonic RS is on the lot and I am excited. YES, I am still a chevy guy.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

william10609 said:


> Ginaberrie, I received a rapid response from GM after I filed With BBB AUTO LINE, it will get you a new case # and GM wants these resolved. This vehicle sounds like mine, just no good solution.I asked my mechs about the grease and they do not remember any when they changed the heater core. MY new Sonic RS is on the lot and I am excited. YES, I am still a chevy guy.


Did GM buy back your cruze?


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Does anyone know if the 2013 Cruze's are affected regarding the glycol based lubricant in the HVAC boxes? My dealership informed me that GM engineering contacted them and they wanted me to give them info regarding my temp control knob position relating to the smell coming into the cabin. I was also informed that GM is currently writing a PI for the HVAC lubricant issue.


Yes, my 2013 LT1 had this problem.

The entire hvac unit was replaced 2 days ago and seems to have resolved the problem.

it now have a heavy grease smell from the new grease used, actually worse than the antifreeze smell.

I am hopefully it will go away after some time.

I have alerted my dealer and they will notify GM


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Keep us posted on this. I would imagine right now it is being spread verbally as a method of dealing with extreme cases first, and widespread deployment will follow.


Anyone can check and read Techlink. It is also archived so you can look at past issues. It comes out monthly, usually the first week of the month. It gets update with new PIs occaisionally. 

Techlink: Welcome To Techlink!

The Emerging Issues broadcasts are available to someone with a GM user id, so dealer service departments should be able to sign on and look at them whenever they want. It would seem to me that a smart service manager would be reviewing these regularly to keep his/her staff apprised of new problems. I would think this would be the vehicle for notifying the dealerships of an issue like this. But, I am not that knowledgeable of inside GM. Perhaps XR knows.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

New grease seals will smell. This is done at the factory and has time to dry and air out, having this done when it needs to be driven is unfortunate because if it gets hot it will take longer to cure and air out


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

I've got my cruze coming back to me in 2 hours, they said they removed some grease from a door underneath the dash somewhere. He said there wasn't a large excessive amount though. I'll have to see if it still smells when I get it back


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Cruzenart said:


> Yes, my 2013 LT1 had this problem.
> 
> The entire hvac unit was replaced 2 days ago and seems to have resolved the problem.
> 
> ...




Cruzenart,
Thank you for the update on this. I would like you to keep me posted on the progress with this. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me anytime.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I am still in the process of communicating by phone with my GM rep. I don't have much to update other than the last call I received was one that advised me that they wanted to elevate my problem to the "next level." After I questioned what the "next level" was I was informed that it would apparently keep me in the troubleshooting mode (been there - done that). I informed my rep that I am open to resolving this issue, but feel that GM doesn't have a fix and further troubleshooting (my opinion) is not an option at this time. Apparently, it appears that GM wanted my dealership to tackle the dashboard next. At this time I am not comfortable having my dashboard yanked out as I still remain skeptical that this is the fix. I feel it is too early to confirm that this is where the problem lies. We have thousands of Cruze's that don't have this issue. Do they have lubricant in the HVAC boxes? If so, why are only certain Cruze's affected? I understand this is a complex issue and I don't think anyone has all the answers yet. 

My point to the GM rep: My Cruze has 7110 miles. Other than an oil change and software update this is my maintenance record.

1) Hack job on the engine shield
2) Tape/tube/seal job - did not solve the problem
3) Can we yank your dashboard out? No thanks.

I understand that GM and dealerships are working to resolve this issue. I have a NEW vehicle. I really would like to try to "keep it together" as much as possible.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

If your going to be like that about it, I wouldn't be surprised if they tell you to take it and they will call you when a fix is there.
The fix is removing the glycol based grease, but you don't want to accept this. OK, then take the car home and wait. I would have to double check, but when it comes to warranty work, I don't think you don't have much of a say. They are being nice and asking since the vehicle can still be driven. What I mean is that you complain of an issue and they can repair it under warranty without your ok.
Add to this, so the GM haters don't jump off a cliff trying to prove me wrong, this is after you take it to them complaining of a problem. They don't go Nazi and come take your ride.


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## ConsideringACruze (Jan 7, 2013)

Does a new entry on a carfax report get generated each time an attempted fix is made on the Cruzes? If so, taking it in to the dealer each time an attempted fix has come out could be hurting the resale value of the cars as people generally get spooked by lengthy carfax reports on used vehicles.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

ConsideringACruze said:


> Does a new entry on a carfax report get generated each time an attempted fix is made on the Cruzes?


I have no expertise in this area, but I would be AMAZED if this were the case. I wouldn't be surprised if it tracked recalls simply so the potential buyer could make sure all recalls had been performed.

If someone else knows for sure pleaase let us know.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

ConsideringACruze said:


> Does a new entry on a carfax report get generated each time an attempted fix is made on the Cruzes? If so, taking it in to the dealer each time an attempted fix has come out could be hurting the resale value of the cars as people generally get spooked by lengthy carfax reports on used vehicles.


I ran a carfax on my vehicle prior to the tape/tube/seal job. Oil change and software program update showed up on carfax - not the engine shield recall. I am not sure if dealership's have the ability to choose what shows up on the report or not. Apparently someone does since my oil change and software program was documented.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I feel it is too early to confirm that this is where the problem lies. We have thousands of Cruze's that don't have this issue. Do they have lubricant in the HVAC boxes? If so, why are only certain Cruze's affected? I understand this is a complex issue and I don't think anyone has all the answers yet.


Lubrication of parts like this is almost surely done manually. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "minimum" grease specification (ex. number of areas to be lubricated) but a "maximum" grease specification might be something very general.

An issue like this comes down to supplier quality. The more QC (Quality Control) put in place for a supplied part, the more money the part costs the supplier to make. Car companies are constantly working with their suppliers to ensure adequate QC, but sometimes a learning curve comes into play.

Sometimes you get a careless individual that just has sloppy work habits and some of his/her work makes it through the QC process. It may surprise some people to hear this, but it _might be theoretically possible _that every person with excessive grease applied to HVAC components _could potentially _be the result of a single person not doing their job properly. Yes, it is the job of Engineers to develop a process where, theoretically at least, this doesn't happen. But sometimes theory is trumped by reality and we have to go back and make changes.

Often there are multiple lines making the same part. An intermittent problem with one person/machine on one line can be very tough to find. Sometimes parts are supplied by overseas countries in which case the supply chain could have weeks or months worth of parts already produced and in transit with a problem before the issue is discovered, and this requires extremely lengthy and costly reworking at third party sorting/containment facilities.

Situations like this make identifying/tracking down/correcting a problem increasingly difficult, and is why manufacturing often goes to a tracking system where they can narrow down the details of each part made to simplify the process. It is not uncommon to see date/time/batch/line/shift/etc. information recorded on products for this very reason, but as with most things the benefits have to be weighed with the costs, and doing this always adds cost to the parts.

SO IN A NUTSHELL, you may be right and the silver bullet to kill this issue may not have been found yet. Based on comunications with GM posted here, it shouldn't be long now.


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## cdncruze (Dec 9, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Today? I hope all is well, but I'd feel more confident after a few days of driving the car to be sure the problem doesn't come back. It would seem the root of the problem for most people is not a leaky water pump bolt.


When I mentioned the water pump bolt I meant the leak was via the pump shaft seal leaking ie: a manufacturing defect. My car is in for a new bumper skin now, due to an argument with a Raccoon and I've asked the bodyshop to check my radiator when they take her apart and to report back to me.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Sometimes parts are supplied by overseas countries in which case the supply chain could have weeks or months worth of parts already produced and in transit with a problem before the issue is discovered, and this requires extremely lengthy and costly reworking at third party sorting/containment facilities.


And don't forget the amount of non-domestic parts in a Cruze.
2011 = 55%
2012 = 40%
2013 = 44%
Not saying it's a bad thing, just to put it in perspective. 

Source: Part 583 American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) Reports | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> SO IN A NUTSHELL, you may be right and the silver bullet to kill this issue may not have been found yet. Based on comunications with GM posted here, it shouldn't be long now.


Blue Angel, your postings have been helpful. As I posted earlier "*At this time* I am not comfortable having my dashboard yanked out as I still remain skeptical that this is the fix." I understand we have had 2 vehicles completed which appear to have solved *A *problem—but did it solve *THE* problem? For me it is not that I will not have them yank my dashboard, but *WHEN* do I have them yank the dashboard? I am more comfortable waiting and seeing what the outcome may be and if there is the fix. Now this may mean I will have to wait for some time. The point is I am not going to allow my car to be the "experimental vehicle" to help solve this problem. I understand that other members may not agree with me and that is fine. I feel if you have this problem with your vehicle, it is the owner’s choice to decide what is best for them as a fix and when it is fixed. So, hopefully you are correct and we will see something surface soon to help everyone.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> For me it is not that I will not have them yank my dashboard, but *WHEN* do I have them yank the dashboard?


I think you have the right idea, especially since a proven fix _appears_ to be so close. I would likely do the same if I were in your shoes.


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

Until GM has a fix to all of the coolant problems not worth the time having dealers pull appart the dash to have a look and then running into dash problems later on. Many had the dash removed plus to have the heat core replaced and still the problem is with the Cruze. With the testing GM has been doing they would have found the grease problem a while ago since it has been with later 2011 and 2012 and starting with 2013. This grease most likely has been used with the new Sonics and the Verano yet all seems good. There is more to this problem and having your car taken appart to have a look and then perhaps having other problems better to wait and see what happens.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Bohdan said:


> Until GM has a fix to all of the coolant problems not worth the time having dealers pull appart the dash to have a look and then running into dash problems later on. Many had the dash removed plus to have the heat core replaced and still the problem is with the Cruze. With the testing GM has been doing they would have found the grease problem a while ago since it has been with later 2011 and 2012 and starting with 2013. This grease most likely has been used with the new Sonics and the Verano yet all seems good. There is more to this problem and having your car taken appart to have a look and then perhaps having other problems better to wait and see what happens.


Have there been any posts of pictures showing the locations of the excess grease? I remember looking at AllData for the Heater Core, and if I remember correctly everyting is accessible through the driver side panel on console. It makes me question the validity of "had to remove the entire dash" to get at the heater core, or the dampener actuators. 

I thought I saved these AllData Files. Next time I have access I will make sure to look up and save heater core removal, and dash removal. 

The 2011 Cruze manual is actually quite good, and it's suprising how well engineered some of the tasks are, when you can see the detailed exploded drawings on how to do it. 

If there's been pics posted in other threads on the inside of the dash please let me know.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> I've got my cruze coming back to me in 2 hours, they said they removed some grease from a door underneath the dash somewhere. He said there wasn't a large excessive amount though. I'll have to see if it still smells when I get it back


Any helpful news or updates with the current maintenance completed on your Cruze?


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

Bohdan said:


> Until GM has a fix to all of the coolant problems not worth the time having dealers pull appart the dash to have a look and then running into dash problems later on. Many had the dash removed plus to have the heat core replaced and still the problem is with the Cruze. With the testing GM has been doing they would have found the grease problem a while ago since it has been with later 2011 and 2012 and starting with 2013. This grease most likely has been used with the new Sonics and the Verano yet all seems good. There is more to this problem and having your car taken appart to have a look and then perhaps having other problems better to wait and see what happens.


This is crap. You have no idea what is going on or what they have and have not done. The internet forums makes everyone a know it all. 
Now if you guys are so worried, then don't have them do anything like you have said. However, Shut the **** up about it then. Just sit there and wait for it. Yeah, I know...."I don't have to. I can continue to whine blah, blah, blah....." Only an a**hole would continue to bitch.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Any helpful news or updates with the current maintenance completed on your Cruze?


*UPDATE*: Got my car back, ran it back and forth to work and I'm still smelling coolant, so it looks like this did not work for me. Will be calling my dealership manager on Monday, to ask that we get the ball rolling on the buy back. Enough is enough with this issue, 3 unsuccessful repair attempts is plenty for me. I can hear the Toyota down the road calling me.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

blackcruzelt said:


> *UPDATE*: Got my car back, ran it back and forth to work and I'm still smelling coolant, so it looks like this did not work for me. Will be calling my dealership manager on Monday, to ask that we get the ball rolling on the buy back. Enough is enough with this issue, 3 unsuccessful repair attempts is plenty for me. I can hear the Toyota down the road calling me.


Ignore the call, then drive to the Subaru down the road


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> *UPDATE*: Got my car back, ran it back and forth to work and I'm still smelling coolant, so it looks like this did not work for me. Will be calling my dealership manager on Monday, to ask that we get the ball rolling on the buy back. Enough is enough with this issue, 3 unsuccessful repair attempts is plenty for me. I can hear the Toyota down the road calling me.


Get the dealership to actually show you what they have tried. Then see if there is something that someone has had success here that wasn't tried. Do you smell coolant when you're not running the heater (temp knob on full cold) and you're running the fan on 4 while pulling air in from outside? If so, are you smelling coolant under the engine hood? I ask because this issue is really starting to smell like two different issues - engine bay coolant leak/pressure relief problem vs. cabin ducts.


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## william10609 (Dec 13, 2012)

They agreed to a full MSRP trade value with no usage fees. Better Business Bureau Auto Line is free and acts as mediator, if you try just GM they will keep trying to FIX your vehicle. Your other option is with your state attorney general by your states lemon law, you do not need a lawyer to file with them. It has been in the 40's here so I drive to work with the heater off and still get occassional smells of antifreeze. Turbo diesel looks good and if you can hang with the smell that could be a good trade, 4 months was to long for me.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

william10609 said:


> It has been in the 40's here so I drive to work with the heater off and still get occassional smells of antifreeze.


High of 54 today and I kept fan off and temp control to 9:00 position with windows closed. I also got an occasional whiff of antifreeze. Obviously, engine temp climbed quicker with heater off and stayed in the 200 - 225 range. I did decide to crack my window prior to arriving home and got a bigger whiff when initially cracked. My first opportunity today to keep heat off and temp control to cool position since owning the vehicle. Hard for me to understand that this could possibly be a cabin duct problem with temp control and fan in this configuration while driving today.


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

obermd said:


> Get the dealership to actually show you what they have tried. Then see if there is something that someone has had success here that wasn't tried. Do you smell coolant when you're not running the heater (temp knob on full cold) and you're running the fan on 4 while pulling air in from outside? If so, are you smelling coolant under the engine hood? I ask because this issue is really starting to smell like two different issues - engine bay coolant leak/pressure relief problem vs. cabin ducts.


The dealer replaced the Air inlet and outlet cases on my car. I think the grease was used on every moving part in the cases. See items 1 and 5 in the attached link.

The antifreeze smell seems to be gone, but I do have a grease smell that seems to be fading since the repair last Wednesday.


http://www.partswebsite.com//stores/partsimages/partsC/CC11100.gif


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> High of 54 today and I kept fan off and temp control to 9:00 position with windows closed. I also got an occasional whiff of antifreeze. Obviously, engine temp climbed quicker with heater off and stayed in the 200 - 225 range. I did decide to crack my window prior to arriving home and got a bigger whiff when initially cracked. My first opportunity today to keep heat off and temp control to cool position since owning the vehicle. Hard for me to understand that this could possibly be a cabin duct problem with temp control and fan in this configuration while driving today.


On my 2011, when I turn off the fan the display shows a default setting of outside air coming in. It does not stay on recirculate. You are pulling in "filtered" engine bay air. Cracking open the window did increase the air flow as well. Thus more smell IMHO.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I did decide to crack my window prior to arriving home and got a bigger whiff when initially cracked. My first opportunity today to keep heat off and temp control to cool position since owning the vehicle.


Montana, can you do me a favor and check the coolant level in your reservoir with the engine COLD? It needs to be checked while parked on a level surface. Have you ever topped it up since owning the car? How many miles on your Cruze now?

I've read quite a bit on this topic now and it seems that the coolant level in the reservoir may be related to the smells that originate under the hood.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Montana, can you do me a favor and check the coolant level in your reservoir with the engine COLD? It needs to be checked while parked on a level surface. Have you ever topped it up since owning the car? How many miles on your Cruze now?
> 
> I've read quite a bit on this topic now and it seems that the coolant level in the reservoir may be related to the smells that originate under the hood.


Yes, I have had to top the coolant off once as it was a couple marks low from the full mark. I have approximately 7200 miles. I have also had the PI completed for the tape/tube/seal job which did not work. A couple of other things I just recently noticed:

1)When I change HVAC ventilation positions from (defrost/floor) to (dash/floor) I am encountering a scraping sound inside the HVAC unit. Appears that it might be happening when the vents are changing position. 

Non antifreeze related:

1) Squeaky steering - fixed that myself with some dry lube.
2) When I initially start the car and reach approximately 11 mph I hear a "clunk" under the hood as if something is either engaging or disengaging. Happens after initial start of driving the car and happens only once. 

I have looked for another thread on this "clunking" noise, but did not find anything. I don't want to get off track on this thread addressing the antifreeze issue, but if there is something else out there addressing the "clunking" noise please let me know. Thanks.


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## EcoCruze (Oct 25, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Yes, I have had to top the coolant off once as it was a couple marks low from the full mark. I have approximately 7200 miles. I have also had the PI completed for the tape/tube/seal job which did not work. A couple of other things I just recently noticed:
> 
> 1)When I change HVAC ventilation positions from (defrost/floor) to (dash/floor) I am encountering a scraping sound inside the HVAC unit. Appears that it might be happening when the vents are changing position.
> 
> ...




The clunking noise is simply your ABS self test. This will occur every time after startup at approximately 10 MPH.

Sent from my DROID3 using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

You don't have to be moving for the ABS test. Let it idle and see if it makes that sound after 30 seconds or so. It's usually not a clunk sound though more like a motor whirring


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

There are two ABS tests. One can and frequently does occur while the car is sitting still. The other one requires the ABS hub being tested actually be spinning because it triggers the ABS system on the wheel. The clunk at 20 KPH is the second test.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Yes, I have had to top the coolant off once as it was a couple marks low from the full mark. I have approximately 7200 miles.


Do you remember if the coolant venting smells were present before topping off the coolant, or if they started after topping off?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Outside air comes in from a vent at the base of the windshield, but outside the car. It does not come through the engine bay. However, if you're leaking coolant at the fill tank you may get fumes from the tank as the intake is directly behind the tank and in the line of the overhood air flow.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Do you remember if the coolant venting smells were present before topping off the coolant, or if they started after topping off?


Sorry, not able to confirm vapors before/after topping off coolant. I purchased vehicle with 5900 miles. Topped off coolant a few days after purchased while checking engine fluids.


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Well I finally took the work car in after 18k of smelling coolant! Its 6 months old now lol! They replaced the heater core which was leaking however they did not clean my carpet as they said it didn't leak much? Fixed rattle in the dash and replaced a spring in the clutch pedal that was squeeking like crazy! We'll see if the coolant smell is gone in the coming weeks.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Puller, did they check for and remove excess grease in the duct work? This grease appears to by glycol based and when it heats up and starts breaking down it smells very similar to coolant.


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Not to my knowledge as it wasn't on the work order. My wife picked it up so I didn't talk to the guy. Its been sitting for 2 weeks as she's on vacation but will start driving it next week again to work. We will know then if its repaired or needs to go in for round 2. If it isn't fixed I'll refer them to the thread on that grease, however I don't think they are the type to listen to a customer lol! Not worried as I have bumper to bumper warranty until 100k and will make sure everything is kept in tip top shape on GM's dime until then!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Puller said:


> however I don't think they are the type to listen to a customer...


If it is an option for you, don't rule out giving your business to a different dealer that shows some interest in pleasing you. If everyone stopped going to the dealerships with poor service they would go out of business or be forced to "upgrade" their level of service. For some people this isn't an option, but for those living in populated areas there will usually be more than one Chevy dealer around to choose from.


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## expontiacowner (Apr 5, 2012)

I’ve been out of my 2011 Cruze LT and in a new 2013 Malibu LT for about 4 months now. It’s one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. As a retired GM service manager, it is still my contention that this problem will not be resolved until the car is completely redesigned. As I’ve said before,this is the third model year, and they haven’t figured it out yet. I have been subscribed to this thread from almost the very beginning, and I keep seeing the same complaint and lack of a solution, just different people. Don’t misunderstand, I think GM makes some of the best vehicles on the road, but they really dropped the ball on this coolant smell issue. Problems like this happen to all car manufacturers at some point.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

So word from my dealership is that GM is willing to buy it back, but I'd need to buy another GM product, which has me looking at a 2013 malibu. My question is, should I try to do the BBB auto line and possibly try to file for lemon law? I understand GM doesn't want to see me buy a car from the competition, but I feel this anti-freeze issue wasn't my fault and I should be free to buy whatever car I want next.

Has anyone had decent luck with the BBB auto line or lemon law claims?


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## expontiacowner (Apr 5, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> So word from my dealership is that GM is willing to buy it back, but I'd need to buy another GM product, which has me looking at a 2013 malibu. My question is, should I try to do the BBB auto line and possibly try to file for lemon law? I understand GM doesn't want to see me buy a car from the competition, but I feel this anti-freeze issue wasn't my fault and I should be free to buy whatever car I want next.
> 
> Has anyone had decent luck with the BBB auto line or lemon law claims?


It's my opinion that the buy back is probably your best route. You're extremely lucky to get the offer. As a rule GM doesn't like to do a buy back. If it's any help, I traded my Cruze on 2013 Malibu, and I really like it. No problems after first 4000 mi.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

I got offered the same, I was told I had to get another product from the same dealer I bought my Cruze from- I could only get a GM product that my dealer sold which was only Chevy. I asked if I could get a Buick Verano and was told I could not. I told them I did not have an interest in another Cruze or a Mailbu and wanted the money according to my state's lemon law and they said ok. I think they will always offer you the buyback for another GM product first as it saves them more money. My state (Ohio) has a very consumer friendly lemon law- some do not. I would look into it and see what the better route to go is. Some states pro-rate based on mileage and you may get less money. I did drive the Malibu and thought it was a nice car, however the car has not been selling and GM has admitted they are doing a emergency redesign of the car already for this fall (just like Honda did for the Civic recently). I decided I was not going to settle for a car I did not really want in the first place and will be outdated in less then a year just because it was convenient for GM. I can also concur that it is unusual for GM to do this. I was the talk of the dealership because I was told it has been years since they saw GM do something like this before. My dealer said the buybacks used to be initiated by the dealer but the process was abused and GM took it over completely- they said rarely does GM offer any type of buyback let alone a complete cash refund like they did for me. Good luck to you.


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## Camcruse (Oct 4, 2011)

Sorry to say at 17,800 mies (2012) I'm getting a very faint anti-freeze smell when the blower is on fan speed 3 or 4.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Go for the money, screw GM. You don't owe them anything. If they cared so much about retaining customers this kind of crap wouldn't be going on.


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Since GM shutdown our local dealership this one is the next closest to us. It doesn't really matter if they listen or not I will return the vehicle as many times as it takes until I have a well documented case at which point I will have my lawyer handle it from there. So really its in their best interest to fix it not mine. I have owned 17 new Gm vehicles in my 18 years of driving, if they would like to keep me as a customer they will take care of me. Hopefully it won't go there as I will be buying another new vehicle in the coming months and it will more than likely be a Chevy.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

At this time, even though I have decided to wait on any further repairs both my GM rep and service manager continue to contact me. The tone of their calls are "What can we do for you?" Both my GM rep and service manager appear to understand my position and concerns. I continue to share the information I have learned from this forum with both my GM rep and service manager to help in the decision making process - "Where do I go from here?" I appreciate everyone posting updates on this forum as it is very helpful working through this process. So thanks!

I am wondering - Did anyone have the HVAC "heater box" replacement completed without the PI tape/tube/seal job or any other repairs? If HVAC job only, did the smell go away?


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> I got offered the same, I was told I had to get another product from the same dealer I bought my Cruze from- I could only get a GM product that my dealer sold which was only Chevy. I asked if I could get a Buick Verano and was told I could not. I told them I did not have an interest in another Cruze or a Mailbu and wanted the money according to my state's lemon law and they said ok. I think they will always offer you the buyback for another GM product first as it saves them more money. My state (Ohio) has a very consumer friendly lemon law- some do not. I would look into it and see what the better route to go is. Some states pro-rate based on mileage and you may get less money. I did drive the Malibu and thought it was a nice car, however the car has not been selling and GM has admitted they are doing a emergency redesign of the car already for this fall (just like Honda did for the Civic recently). I decided I was not going to settle for a car I did not really want in the first place and will be outdated in less then a year just because it was convenient for GM. I can also concur that it is unusual for GM to do this. I was the talk of the dealership because I was told it has been years since they saw GM do something like this before. My dealer said the buybacks used to be initiated by the dealer but the process was abused and GM took it over completely- they said rarely does GM offer any type of buyback let alone a complete cash refund like they did for me. Good luck to you.


Contrary to our wonderful little stevie, I don't look at it as screw them. Get the money and go to buick and buy the verano.....maybe a turbo model???


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> At this time, even though I have decided to wait on any further repairs both my GM rep and service manager continue to contact me. The tone of their calls are "What can we do for you?" Both my GM rep and service manager appear to understand my position and concerns. I continue to share the information I have learned from this forum with both my GM rep and service manager to help in the decision making process - "Where do I go from here?" I appreciate everyone posting updates on this forum as it is very helpful working through this process. So thanks!
> 
> I am wondering - Did anyone have the HVAC "heater box" replacement completed without the PI tape/tube/seal job or any other repairs? If HVAC job only, did the smell go away?


I had the tape/tube/seal PI and heater core replaced with no improvement.

When the HVAC cases were replaced the smell went away entirely, but was replaced with a grease smell which is almost gone by now.

i was told the new HVAC case was assembled with a different grease. That is why I smell grease and not antifreeze any more. The original HVAC case must have had a glycol base to it making it smell like antifreeze.

I am happy with the outcome


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Cruzenart said:


> I had the tape/tube/seal PI and heater core replaced with no improvement.
> 
> When the HVAC cases were replaced the smell went away entirely, but was replaced with a grease smell which is almost gone by now.
> 
> ...


It would be great if we can confirm cases that only HVAC case repairs were effective without any other further repairs completed. I think we may start to see that soon. If and when I decide to have the heater box replaced I think I am going to ask for my surge tank to be replaced also to get rid of the tape/tube job as it did not work for my Cruze. In addition, I am thinking about asking for extended bumper to bumper warranty since they have to drop the dash. I am understanding that this is quite a job and I don't want to have other issues surface later due to dropping the dash. The work is only as good as the technician doing the job.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Puller said:


> Not to my knowledge as it wasn't on the work order. My wife picked it up so I didn't talk to the guy. Its been sitting for 2 weeks as she's on vacation but will start driving it next week again to work. We will know then if its repaired or needs to go in for round 2. If it isn't fixed I'll refer them to the thread on that grease, however I don't think they are the type to listen to a customer lol! Not worried as I have bumper to bumper warranty until 100k and will make sure everything is kept in tip top shape on GM's dime until then!




Puller,
Please keep me posted on the outcome of your repairs. If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me anytime.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

Update to my addition of an overflow container connected to the vent line of the surge tank. I had posted photos earlier on the 1st thread. No action for several weeks driving around until last Sunday. Did a quick 650 mile trip to eastern PA. Weather conditions starting were in the high teens to low 20s (F), but when I arrived at my destination, the temperatures had warmed up to just around 32 F. Travel was on I-80 across OH and PA, and then the PA Turnpike NE Extension, so hills were about half of the drive. I had topped off my surge tank to again bring it up to the full cold arrow the night before my trip. Next day after arriving in PA, I looked at the overflow container - and it was bone dry. Did it spring a leak of did the surge tank actually suck up all of the coolant into the overflow container? Based on the amount of coolant in the surge tank, it looks like it had sucked up the coolant from my overflow bottle into the surge tank. Stopped and purchased some 50/50 coolant mix, and refilled my overflow bottle for the trip back home. No signs of any leakage. On my drive home, the temperatures ranged from 8 to 20 F. No evidence of coolant flowing from my overflow bottle into the surge tank at the end of this trip.

So, what caused the thermal transfer of coolant from my coolant overflow container back into the surge tank? Recall that I had run the vent hose to the bottom of my overflow bottle, so it was constantly in coolant. But unlike a true overflow bottle, the clear plastic (in my case) vent line, was not filled with coolant. Right before the trip, I had pulled out my plastic vent line where it connects to the surge tank, cleaned it well, and used some RTV at the end to seal it to the surge tank.

Another piece of information surrounding this issue.


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

I should have mentioned in the above post that I went right by the Lordstown facility on the way out east and then on the return trip back home. I did not feel any tug from the steering wheel to get off the Ohio Turnpike at the Lordstown exit.


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## william10609 (Dec 13, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> So word from my dealership is that GM is willing to buy it back, but I'd need to buy another GM product, which has me looking at a 2013 malibu. My question is, should I try to do the BBB auto line and possibly try to file for lemon law? I understand GM doesn't want to see me buy a car from the competition, but I feel this anti-freeze issue wasn't my fault and I should be free to buy whatever car I want next.
> 
> Has anyone had decent luck with the BBB auto line or lemon law claims?


It pushed GM to action and BBB acts as an arbitration Entity. They had notified GM of my case file with them and GM did the rest. There is a useage formula based on milage and time of ownership from your first dealer complaint. If GM is offering you a fair trade without either action, take it. For the eight months before my first complaint it would have been $1200-1400. As I stated in prior post, GM gave the full MSRP with no fee, far better than I expected. I have a Sonic RS and final paper work should be completed wed. Good luck.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

william10609 said:


> It pushed GM to action and BBB acts as an arbitration Entity. They had notified GM of my case file with them and GM did the rest. There is a useage formula based on milage and time of ownership from your first dealer complaint. If GM is offering you a fair trade without either action, take it. For the eight months before my first complaint it would have been $1200-1400. As I stated in prior post, GM gave the full MSRP with no fee, far better than I expected. I have a Sonic RS and final paper work should be completed wed. Good luck.


Whats going to kill me is the increase in payment, since a Malibu is like 2-3k more than my Cruze. I feel I should just be able to get my money back and go look at a Corolla or a Civic. The dealership is running the numbers on the Malibu with GM, that's the last I knew.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> Whats going to kill me is the increase in payment, since a Malibu is like 2-3k more than my Cruze. I feel I should just be able to get my money back and go look at a Corolla or a Civic. The dealership is running the numbers on the Malibu with GM, that's the last I knew.


I dare you to test drive a Corolla, then get back into a Cruze. You'll wish you never even said the word Corolla. 

The Civic won't be far behind the Corolla.


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## william10609 (Dec 13, 2012)

GM Has 2.9% on the Malibu right now and there are better interest rates available. You would be upgradeing ride comfort with the Malibu and the Sonic sedan has a slightly better ride than Corolla, IMO. And remember, not all Cruze have this problem. The other thing about the trade/buy back is you only pay taxes on the difference in price, not like a brand new vehicle.


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> Whats going to kill me is the increase in payment, since a Malibu is like 2-3k more than my Cruze. I feel I should just be able to get my money back and go look at a Corolla or a Civic. The dealership is running the numbers on the Malibu with GM, that's the last I knew.


IMO, if you like your Cruze...have the HVAC cases replaced. If you don't like it...take the buy back.

i really like my Cruze. I chose it over the Malibu because of the gas mileage and price.

i was getting ready to ask for a buy back if the cases did not resolve the issue, but I would have bought another Cruze ( or maybe a Verano  )

I drive up to 200 miles per day so the cost per mile was very important to me.

FYI, my dash does not squeak or rattle and everything works as expected. I really like the way my dealer handle the issue and performed the repairs.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Cruzenart said:


> FYI, my dash does not squeak or rattle and everything works as expected. I really like the way my dealer handle the issue and performed the repairs.


It is great that you have a dealership that did you right and apparently a technician who knew what they were doing. In my case it took my dealership 3 times to get the sealing job done correctly. Now I am in a position that I may need them at some point to drop the dash. My service manager is awesome and he does want to get things right. But, I am a little hesitant at this point in having them do the HVAC job. My service manager understands my concerns. He did tell me he does have a technician who can do a job this big with confidence. I know there may be a time to do the HVAC job and I will need to go that route. If so, I will ask for an extended bumper-to-bumper warranty. I am thinking 5 years, 100,000 mile warranty.

I am probably not the only member thinking about the dash job (do I do it, when do I do it, and will it absolutely work?) I think there are other members following this thread and the other antifreeze threads waiting to see the outcome on the HVAC case R/R with more data before making a decision and possibly what else might be causing this issue. Frankly, I wish that I would of waited on the tape/tube/seal job. I am hoping and expecting a modified tank eventually or a tank replacement to rid of the tape/tube. 

I am also open to purchase another GM product to include a Cruze as I know not all Cruze's have this problem. I also thought about a Malibu, but I really like the Cruze and I don't want a higher car payment or move into a vehicle that I really don't want. I don't want to be impulsive during this decision making process, and I am working with GM and and my dealership weighing all options before committing to a decision that I may regret later. I don't feel pressured by GM or my dealership and they have not told me what I must do, but have made some suggestions and also have asked me what would I like to do. So, at this point I feel that I have a good working relationship with them and they are respecting my decisions and options, yet I feel we are moving forward and will come to a final agreement eventually to solve this problem.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Camcruse said:


> Sorry to say at 17,800 mies (2012) I'm getting a very faint anti-freeze smell when the blower is on fan speed 3 or 4.




Camcruse,
Have you had a chance to have your dealer look into this for you? I would be happy to get a service request set up for you with GM. In order for me to do this I will need to gather some additional information from you. Can you please send me your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer? I look forward to hearing back from you.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Well the wife drove the car to work today and told me it still smells like coolant? Wonderful! We'll give it a few days to make sure there isn't residual coolant from the core change in there. If not back she goes only we'll get a loaner car for a few days this time lol. I've got better things to do with my time then go to the dealer but its under warranty I guess.

On a second note I just got a new 4 wheeler and it died after 2 miles on odo? At the dealer now with an electrical problem. Why buy new anymore if its all junk? You pay more for less quality? Its kind've of the way it appears anymore with anything.

I don't care about having a computer screen or the latest techy stuff in my car or trucks, I want reliability, comfort and quality period!


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Puller said:


> Well the wife drove the car to work today and told me it still smells like coolant? Wonderful! We'll give it a few days to make sure there isn't residual coolant from the core change in there. If not back she goes only we'll get a loaner car for a few days this time lol. I've got better things to do with my time then go to the dealer but its under warranty I guess.
> 
> On a second note I just got a new 4 wheeler and it died after 2 miles on odo? At the dealer now with an electrical problem. Why buy new anymore if its all junk? You pay more for less quality? Its kind've of the way it appears anymore with anything.
> 
> I don't care about having a computer screen or the latest techy stuff in my car or trucks, I want reliability, comfort and quality period!


Amen, brother


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Puller said:


> I don't care about having a computer screen or the latest techy stuff in my car or trucks, I want reliability, comfort and quality period!


Build a time machine. Go back to 1993 and buy an Accord/Camry. Those are quite possibly some of the best built, longest-lasting cars I've EVER seen.


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Build a time machine. Go back to 1993 and buy an Accord/Camry. Those are quite possibly some of the best built, longest-lasting cars I've EVER seen.


You will never ever see me in a non-american vehicle (even though most of the parts are foreign)! When buying new I always make sure it was built in the states. At least I'm supporting someone in America (yes I know foriegn vehicles are assembled here also). I have many family members that work at Ford & Gm so I do what I can to support them. I go out of my way to support local businesses not box stores even if it cost me $5 more for the item. I wish more people would do this it might help the economy!


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow, glad i found this thread. i get the coolant smell, but at very rare non random times. I need to have the car at operating temperatures, high load, up hill, from sea level to higher altitude (lots of that where i live) with the intermittantly noisy blower motor on. but it only happens at high speed. I live at the top of a large hill with high load from sea level to snow line and I don't get the smell. but i'm not going any faster than 70(kph). on the highway theres a hill that i need to take a run at (eco 6 speed manual) and by the time i hit the top of the hill i smell coolant and sometimes that very familar smell of a burnt GM blower motor resistor (I've been a tech for 5 years now, 4 years dealing with a lot of GMs, just went to ford) I never put much thought into it being a problem, but the first few times i got real dizzy from it haha. 
As it turns out I've been in the local dealer every weekend for the last 5 saturdays. the first 4 were finding an oil leak that they apperently didn't fix (but we'll get to that) and the last saturday was co-signing on a sonic for my ex. 

I just went out to check my coolant level and my degas bottle is empty! i've also had a belt noise since the coolant smell started and while i couldn't find any staining under the water pump, the AC compressor is oily. 
I also found oil all over my transmission to engine seam, which the dealer 'fixed' after 4 weeks of trying to find it, calling it a faulty PCV.

anyways, sorry for the rant, i've just spent too much time in the dealer this year and it sounds like i'll be in there for another few weeks fixing the coolant issue, and re-fixing the oil leak. 

At least when ford has these problems I get paid to fix them


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## Cruzenart (Jan 24, 2013)

Puller said:


> Well the wife drove the car to work today and told me it still smells like coolant? Wonderful! We'll give it a few days to make sure there isn't residual coolant from the core change in there. If not back she goes only we'll get a loaner car for a few days this time lol. I've got better things to do with my time then go to the dealer but its under warranty I guess.
> 
> On a second note I just got a new 4 wheeler and it died after 2 miles on odo? At the dealer now with an electrical problem. Why buy new anymore if its all junk? You pay more for less quality? Its kind've of the way it appears anymore with anything.
> 
> I don't care about having a computer screen or the latest techy stuff in my car or trucks, I want reliability, comfort and quality period!


Off topic, but I'm big into 4wheelers. What kind did you buy and what happened to it?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Silver Streak said:


> Update to my addition of an overflow container connected to the vent line of the surge tank...
> 
> Another piece of information surrounding this issue.


Would you mind re-posting pics of your modification and explaining when and where you see coolant movement? I'm compiling some information and yours might be very valuable.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Puller said:


> Well the wife drove the car to work today and told me it still smells like coolant? Wonderful! We'll give it a few days to make sure there isn't residual coolant from the core change in there. If not back she goes only we'll get a loaner car for a few days this time lol. I've got better things to do with my time then go to the dealer but its under warranty I guess.
> 
> On a second note I just got a new 4 wheeler and it died after 2 miles on odo? At the dealer now with an electrical problem. Why buy new anymore if its all junk? You pay more for less quality? Its kind've of the way it appears anymore with anything.
> 
> I don't care about having a computer screen or the latest techy stuff in my car or trucks, I want reliability, comfort and quality period!



Puller,
Thanks for the update. I would like you to PM me if you have to take your Cruze back to your dealer. In your PM please include your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer. If you do take it back to your dealer I would use this information to get a service request set up for you with GM. Please keep me posted. If you have any questions please contact me anytime.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> Wow, glad i found this thread. i get the coolant smell, but at very rare non random times. I need to have the car at operating temperatures, high load, up hill, from sea level to higher altitude (lots of that where i live) with the intermittantly noisy blower motor on. but it only happens at high speed. I live at the top of a large hill with high load from sea level to snow line and I don't get the smell. but i'm not going any faster than 70(kph). on the highway theres a hill that i need to take a run at (eco 6 speed manual) and by the time i hit the top of the hill i smell coolant and sometimes that very familar smell of a burnt GM blower motor resistor (I've been a tech for 5 years now, 4 years dealing with a lot of GMs, just went to ford) I never put much thought into it being a problem, but the first few times i got real dizzy from it haha.
> As it turns out I've been in the local dealer every weekend for the last 5 saturdays. the first 4 were finding an oil leak that they apperently didn't fix (but we'll get to that) and the last saturday was co-signing on a sonic for my ex.
> 
> I just went out to check my coolant level and my degas bottle is empty! i've also had a belt noise since the coolant smell started and while i couldn't find any staining under the water pump, the AC compressor is oily.
> ...




1990tsi,
I would like to apologize for the issues that you are experiencing with your Cruze. I would recommend that you contact GM of Canada in regards to these concerns. You can contact them at 800-263-3777 Monday-Friday 7:30am - 11:30pm or Saturday 7:30am - 6:00 EST. They will be able to assist you with these concerns. Please feel free to keep me posted and if you have any questions please feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks Stacy, the service guy actually called me today before I could call him, and I'm leaving my car with the dealer for 2 weeks while im away to try to fix everything. I will update when i get the car back on the 16th


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Chevy Customer Service said:


> Puller,
> Thanks for the update. I would like you to PM me if you have to take your Cruze back to your dealer. In your PM please include your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer. If you do take it back to your dealer I would use this information to get a service request set up for you with GM. Please keep me posted. If you have any questions please contact me anytime.
> Thank you,
> 
> Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


You should already have this info as I pm'ed it to you over a month ago with no reply.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Spoke with my GM rep (Customer Support) and local service manager. As I continue to speak with them I understand that the uncertainty of this issue is still valid and quite complex. My service manager also has a rep who is communicating with him regarding my case between the local dealership and GM. GM has a Technical Assistance Center (TAC) where I understand that my level of intervention is on hold because my GM customer service rep, service manager and his rep are awaiting answers from TAC in how to proceed forward to help solve this issue with my Cruze. My service manager did inform me that this is a high priority for GM and apparently they are working on this issue regarding "hands on" troubleshooting with other Cruzes. I was informed by my service manager that it appears that both he and his rep would like for me to hold off on any further maintenance until they hear back from TAC and I agree. They understand that I don’t want my dash dropped without any confirmation that this is absolutely the fix. Also, I am assuming that they (TAC) are not convinced that the HVAC box is the permanent fix at this time. My dealership and his rep suggested that they felt it was best to hold off on the dash work until GM indicates somehow through communication or by writing that the dash work is a "go." I am not sure if this meant for all Cruzes’ or just wanting me to hold off based on the information I have reported to them to help determine if it is my HVAC box or not. I did inform my service manager that I would ask for an extended warranty if I have to have my dash dropped to do the HVAC box R/R. I was informed that apparently GM would like to keep me in this vehicle and they would consider/approve the extended bumper-to-bumper warranty. I did ask for 5 yr. /100,000 mile. If the dash work is a “go” I will expect the extended warranty to be honored. I also asked for the surge tank to be replaced with a modified tank or an original tank installed. 

I have decided to send my concerns and what I am experiencing (issues) with my car directly to my service manager by emails as necessary. He is forwarding my emails to his rep. This gives me written documentation that I am actively working to solve this issue as a consumer and also giving GM factual information regarding my Cruze.

My intentions are to help be part of the solution. I will continue to wait patiently and allow GM to honor their commitment to help solve this issue.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Just submitted my case to the BBB auto line program, since GM is dragging their feet on this one bad.My GM rep is supposed to call me today, I'll see what she has to say, but at this point I definitely want out of the car. Been dealing with this smell long enough. Hopefully the BBB can get GM to get a move on this issue.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Spoke with my GM rep (Customer Support) and local service manager. As I continue to speak with them I understand that the uncertainty of this issue is still valid and quite complex. My service manager also has a rep who is communicating with him regarding my case between the local dealership and GM. GM has a Technical Assistance Center (TAC) where I understand that my level of intervention is on hold because my GM customer service rep, service manager and his rep are awaiting answers from TAC in how to proceed forward to help solve this issue with my Cruze. My service manager did inform me that this is a high priority for GM and apparently they are working on this issue regarding "hands on" troubleshooting with other Cruzes. I was informed by my service manager that it appears that both he and his rep would like for me to hold off on any further maintenance until they hear back from TAC and I agree. They understand that I don’t want my dash dropped without any confirmation that this is absolutely the fix. Also, I am assuming that they (TAC) are not convinced that the HVAC box is the permanent fix at this time. My dealership and his rep suggested that they felt it was best to hold off on the dash work until GM indicates somehow through communication or by writing that the dash work is a "go." I am not sure if this meant for all Cruzes’ or just wanting me to hold off based on the information I have reported to them to help determine if it is my HVAC box or not. I did inform my service manager that I would ask for an extended warranty if I have to have my dash dropped to do the HVAC box R/R. I was informed that apparently GM would like to keep me in this vehicle and they would consider/approve the extended bumper-to-bumper warranty. I did ask for 5 yr. /100,000 mile. If the dash work is a “go” I will expect the extended warranty to be honored. I also asked for the surge tank to be replaced with a modified tank or an original tank installed.
> 
> I have decided to send my concerns and what I am experiencing (issues) with my car directly to my service manager by emails as necessary. He is forwarding my emails to his rep. This gives me written documentation that I am actively working to solve this issue as a consumer and also giving GM factual information regarding my Cruze.
> 
> My intentions are to help be part of the solution. I will continue to wait patiently and allow GM to honor their commitment to help solve this issue.


Kudos to you....I gave them 8 months to figure it out. I just did not have the time anymore to deal with it and was worried about my health and my family. Make sure you get in writing what type of extended warranty you are offered. I was told one thing and it ended being something different when I got the paperwork. Good Luck


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> Thanks Stacy, the service guy actually called me today before I could call him, and I'm leaving my car with the dealer for 2 weeks while im away to try to fix everything. I will update when i get the car back on the 16th




1990tsi,
Thanks for the update. I hope you have a safe trip! I look forward to hearing back from you.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

blackcruzelt said:


> Just submitted my case to the BBB auto line program, since GM is dragging their feet on this one bad.My GM rep is supposed to call me today, I'll see what she has to say, but at this point I definitely want out of the car. Been dealing with this smell long enough. Hopefully the BBB can get GM to get a move on this issue.


Excellent advice. I have been "escalated" to level 2 within GM since 1/29/13. Three failed repair attempts documented. Just found out that the Alicia I am working with cannot make a final decision. She is located in the Phillipines and gathers info for GM. Yes, the same info GM already has from the dealer. I have documented each week her canned response, "I am still working on it".

Here is my free advice. 

Do not work with GM on your own. Use the BBB or your State's Lemon Law if applicable. GM will drag it out and then make you a minimal trade assistance offer instead of a buyback.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

dby2011 said:


> Kudos to you....I gave them 8 months to figure it out. I just did not have the time anymore to deal with it and was worried about my health and my family. Make sure you get in writing what type of extended warranty you are offered. I was told one thing and it ended being something different when I got the paperwork. Good Luck


Honestly, I don't want to be in the position I am in at this time. I do want to give GM a chance to honor their commitment. This is my first GM vehicle and my wife has her own vehicle that is the family vehicle. I am the only driver of the Cruze and will not transport my wife or son in this vehicle. I understand that this is not the case for everyone.

I could utilize the BBB and the lemon law route at this time, but I do want GM to stand by their commitment. So, at this time my desire is to hold GM accountable by utilizing internal resources. I understand that this route may not be favorable for others, but it is good that we all have a choice to handle this issue as we see best fit for ourselves. I do have a "Plan B" if and when the time comes that I feel enough is enough and I will need to seek additional resources to rectify this issue.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

upstater said:


> Excellent advice. I have been "escalated" to level 2 within GM since 1/29/13. Three failed repair attempts documented. Just found out that the Alicia I am working with cannot make a final decision. She is located in the Phillipines and gathers info for GM. Yes, the same info GM already has from the dealer. I have documented each week her canned response, "I am still working on it".
> 
> Here is my free advice.
> 
> Do not work with GM on your own. Use the BBB or your State's Lemon Law if applicable. GM will drag it out and then make you a minimal trade assistance offer instead of a buyback.


Interesting....I spoke to GM customer support that was located in Texas and Michigan. I only worked through GM and ended up getting a cash buyback. I went through 2 levels of customer support and then was referred to a district factory rep that was assigned to my area. He made the final decision as what happened with my vehicle. It took time but the process was easy. I went to the dealer- took 10 minutes to sign all the paperwork and they handed me a check from GM. I didn't go through BBB or use a lawyer.


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## lhall (Dec 10, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Spoke with my GM rep (Customer Support) and local service manager. As I continue to speak with them I understand that the uncertainty of this issue is still valid and quite complex. My service manager also has a rep who is communicating with him regarding my case between the local dealership and GM. GM has a Technical Assistance Center (TAC) where I understand that my level of intervention is on hold because my GM customer service rep, service manager and his rep are awaiting answers from TAC in how to proceed forward to help solve this issue with my Cruze. My service manager did inform me that this is a high priority for GM and apparently they are working on this issue regarding "hands on" troubleshooting with other Cruzes. I was informed by my service manager that it appears that both he and his rep would like for me to hold off on any further maintenance until they hear back from TAC and I agree. They understand that I don’t want my dash dropped without any confirmation that this is absolutely the fix. Also, I am assuming that they (TAC) are not convinced that the HVAC box is the permanent fix at this time. My dealership and his rep suggested that they felt it was best to hold off on the dash work until GM indicates somehow through communication or by writing that the dash work is a "go." I am not sure if this meant for all Cruzes’ or just wanting me to hold off based on the information I have reported to them to help determine if it is my HVAC box or not.


With less detail, this essentially mirrors what I heard from the service department at my dealership as well. The two "take-aways" I got from the conversation were that GM was actively investigating this issue and that they didn't have 100% confidence that the grease is the problem. At least not yet. I'm supposed to hear another update in the next day or two.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The good news is that they actually have a place to investigate besides the engine compartment.


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

I had my car back at the dealer today to have PI0740 completed. So far this evening, no smell in my garage!

Interestingly, this "fix" was to replace the "transmission cooler hose" with an upgraded design. I have a 6MT, I was not aware that this car had a transmission cooler...

They also placed 2 pieces of foam under the cowl.

I'll update in the next few days.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> Interesting....I spoke to GM customer support that was located in Texas and Michigan. I only worked through GM and ended up getting a cash buyback. I went through 2 levels of customer support and then was referred to a district factory rep that was assigned to my area. He made the final decision as what happened with my vehicle. It took time but the process was easy. I went to the dealer- took 10 minutes to sign all the paperwork and they handed me a check from GM. I didn't go through BBB or use a lawyer.


Why can't they do that for me?? the GM rep I spoke with claimed "We don't do that", referring to the buyback check of course. So now I've got a lemon law lawyer that is going to be calling me. They are even dragging their feet as far as buying it back and getting me into another car, been over 2 weeks since they were running the numbers on the malibu. Since GM claims they will only buy it back if I buy another GM product, and I don't want another GM product. We'll see what a lawyer has to say.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

milehigh said:


> Interestingly, this "fix" was to replace the "transmission cooler hose" with an upgraded design. I have a 6MT, I was not aware that this car had a transmission cooler...


I don't recall PI0740 replacing the transmission cooler hose when I reviewed the procedure with my service manager. Can you give us more insight regarding this "fix"? Is it manual specific?


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Jim Frye said:


> Anyone can check and read Techlink. It is also archived so you can look at past issues. It comes out monthly, usually the first week of the month. It gets update with new PIs occaisionally.
> 
> Techlink: Welcome To Techlink!


Thanks for this link. I spent some time reading the Jan 2013 PDF archive regarding the TAC which my service manager introduced to me yesterday. I now have a better understanding of the TAC. I will check this link more often for updates.


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

Here is a quick picture of my invoice. 










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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

milehigh said:


> Here is a quick picture of my invoice.


Thanks milehigh. Appreciate your response and info. Interesting. Think I'll pass this info by my service manager and see what type of response I'll receive.

Could you keep us updated on the outcome as if it has appeared to work or not?

Did they attach a tube/tape on your surge tank? I don't see this work listed on your invoice unless they are calling the tube from your surge tank the transmission fluid cooler hose:icon_scratch:


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Thanks milehigh. Appreciate your response and info. Interesting. Think I'll pass this info by my service manager and see what type of response I'll receive.
> 
> Could you keep us updated on the outcome as if it has appeared to work or not?
> 
> Did they attach a tube/tape on your surge tank? I don't see this work listed on your invoice unless they are calling the tube from your surge tank the transmission fluid cooler hose:icon_scratch:


Its there after the PI 0740.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> Its there after the PI 0740.


Thanks.


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

So far it seems to be okay. I should have the car back in "regular routine" tomorrow and the weekend and will report back. It was too windy today to really notice anything. 

quick note: I rarely had the smell in the cabin, mostly smelled it in my parking garage at work and garage at home.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Update: GM contacted me today and I confirmed the following information. Based on the information that I have provided my dealership and the work they have completed (PI0740) on my Cruze, TAC does not want my dealership to perform any further maintenance on my vehicle at this time. I did confirm that this "hold" is regarding my vehicle only and does not affect other Cruze owners who are having the same problem. Will post more info as it surfaces.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> TAC does not want my dealership to perform any further maintenance on my vehicle at this time.


It will be VERY interesting to see what happens next with your car...


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

BlueAngel said:


> It will be VERY interesting to see what happens next with yourcar...


I was informed that GM (TAC) is researching and troubleshooting this issue regarding the "glycol-based smell" coming into the cabin of Cruzes. At this time my GM rep, service manager and his rep are waiting for answers from TAC. So without further guidance it appears that it is best to place a "hold" at this time on my vehicle. I am not sure if this will apply to other Cruzes, but it is possible. I don't think my GM rep was in a position nor had the knowledge to confirm this. I think it was safe for her to inform me that "my vehicle is on hold" until they can give further guidance on managing this problem. 

A large corporation like GM needs to do research and collect data to confirm a fix. But, first they need to pinpoint the problem. I know we all know this; I am just thinking out loud at the moment. Many members have posted some great data, hypothetical situations and have done some troubleshooting themselves to try to solve this problem on this forum. Cruze Talk has a lot of members who are very knowledgeable of their Cruzes and this problem. It appears to me that we have an awesome engineering team on this forum. :goodjob:


If GM is asking dealerships to put a "hold" on any further troubleshooting other than what is already released sounds like good business to me. Why take cars apart if you don't have a solution? Why continue to replace parts and spend the time, money and man-hours when a fix has not been confirmed at TAC level, or at least I am not aware of one yet. It appears that we have had two postings that apparently resolved the smell issue by R/R the HVAC box and this is great news. I think a large corporation like GM is wise enough to know that two possible fixes does not validate sufficient data to "stamp" a "go" and start replacing HVAC boxes at this time. So, that is why I think my Cruze is on hold. I think I possibly have the same issue as most others. We know it takes research, time, and valid, hard, reliable data to find solutions. Xtreme with other members have mentioned this on this thread. I do believe that this will take some time to resolve, but I also believe GM is working quickly to try to manage and solve this problem.

I really like my Cruze and I think GM has done a great job with the design, engineering and testing of this vehicle. A problem has surfaced, so let's allow them some time to figure this out. I understand and know that some Cruzes have the smell worse than others. That sucks! I am in the same boat, and I want to keep my Cruze. I have been frustrated like others. Sometimes I have felt like throwing in the towel. I think GM built a great vehicle—they will fix it.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

*BigSkyMontana-

I vote you the MOST PATIENT person in CruzeTalk! I thought I was patient with GM after dealing with all kinds of customer service/corporate people for over 6+ months and over 40+ phone calls, concerning my crappy shifting transmission and lack of acceleration at times, but YOU have me beat! I have lost track of how long you have been dealing with GM concerning this antifreeze smell.

I just hope that after all this, your problem is resolved with either a fix OR a new car! GM hates to do buybacks because then the car has to be branded as such. At any rate, I hope your health is not being affected by these fumes!

Good luck.
*


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> *BigSkyMontana-
> 
> I vote you the MOST PATIENT person in CruzeTalk! *


Thanks Fastdriver. I am entering month #4 since I first opened this case with GM. I feel that I do have a few pros in my favor at this moment that gives me the flexibility to wait this out. (1) My travel to/from work is a short distance and the weather is starting to become my ally by warming up a bit. This gives me the opportunity to use my heat less and shorter drives before my coolant temp climbs to high. (2) This is not my family vehicle and I am the only occupant at this time in this vehicle.

Other thoughts - (1) I am expecting a permanent fix as I will not tolerate this problem/smell forever. (2) I drive with windows cracked, so I feel I am getting proper ventilation so it doesn't have an impact on my health. The smell isn't to the point that it appears to make me puke, but it is noticeable if the temp control is cranked up on high. I am just choosing to manipulate the air circulation in the cabin with the temp control and fan speed settings so it is tolerable. (3) I know GM is monitoring this thread and they read all postings. (4) I think that all postings and replies on this thread gives GM constructive feedback. I also think and hope GM will take into consideration what is being posted. Hopefully, they will take our thoughts and concerns being posted to help facilitate sound management decisions to support us the consumers. (5) Did I buy this vehicle to accept these type of conditions? Absolutely not! I do like the vehicle and my hope is to try to keep it if all possible.

I do know that other owners may not have the flexibility that I have at this time. I understand that others just don't want to deal with it or deal with GM any longer and that is a choice available if we choose that route. My choices are what best fits at that time and what circumstances help drive my decisions in these matters. I know other Cruze owners have the same problem as me. Some may elect to open a case with GM and others may wait to open a case later. Again, I think this is based on various reasons depending on the owner, their circumstances and the nature of the "smell" coming into the cabin--is the smell strong or faint. I do want GM to see what I am posting. I think it helps hold them accountable to honor their commitment to customer satisfaction. If at some point I feel that they are not choosing to honor their commitment to GM owners I will choose to get rid of the car and move ahead. There are other great vehicles out there and I would not have a problem buying a vehicle from another car manufacturer. I really like the Cruze, I will see what is around the corner, and I will work with GM to solve this issue as a consumer. But, I will not keep "kicking the can" down the road forever.

My gut feeling is that we will see something soon. I don't think GM wants to be in the business of dealing with buy-backs, lawyers and dissatisfied customers. Any large corporation would not want to be in this position. They don't engineer vehicles to fail, they engineer vehicles to succeed not only as a corporation, but to provide consumer satisfaction. 

With the Internet and other available resources at our fingertips these type of issues can either help motivate a corporation to succeed or to fail by consumer outlook (my opinion). I think this thread is a powerful resource to communicate with GM regarding this issue. I am glad everyone has the opportunity to post their successes and disappointments regarding their Cruze experience.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

I have put off getting involved in any of the coolant smell threads because I don't consider my problem serious, and I have been patiently waiting for a real fix to come out before tackling the coolant smell in my 2012 Cruze.

I finally decided to bring it to my dealer on Friday, as they have a service department that is very responsive to me when I have a concern. I informed them that practically since my Cruze was new, I have frequently detected a strong smell of coolant OUTSIDE the car, and an intermittent faint, or not very noticeable odor inside. Also, I have some residue on the inside of the windshield, which I have had to clean off multiple times. I have no noticeable leaks or coolant loss, and have not had to add any coolant in 45,000 miles of driving.

I discussed with my service adviser some of the causes of this odor, and some of the fixes. I told him that since I almost exclusively run the vents on defrost mode and drive up to 200 miles and 4 to 5 hours of driving each day, I suspect my problem is fumes from the engine bay getting into the ventilation system, some of which ends up on the windshield.

The technician who looked at my car wanted to perform the hood seals/coolant tube fix or whatever it is called, and also replace the heater core. I declined the heater core for now as I don't believe this is the problem, and don't want my car taken apart unnecessarily. I would prefer one "fix" performed at a time, so they added dye to the cooling system and have ordered the seal kit. This will be installed in about a week or so. After the seal kit, etc. is installed, I will check for any recurring symptoms.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

I hear you BigSky. I liked my Cruze too and GM cars in general, but I was not willing to take a chance that I was going to get killed if my transmission hesitated at a crucial moment or the car did NOT go when I stepped on the gas at a crucial moment! What pissed me off the most is that GM KNOWS there is a problem with the 2011 transmission, but chooses to ignore it. If they were TRULY interested in "customer satisfaction" and trying to maintain their customer base as they claim, there would be no need for us to rant and rave about our cars. I was always nice to them during the SIX MONTHS of phone calls, but I ALSO let them know that I was NOT falling for any of their crap by claiming that this was "unusual" or a "fluke" or "operating as designed"! I have been buying new cars for 50 years so I know when there is a problem or something is off. I'm not a mechanic or an engineer, but LIFE EXPERIENCE counts for something!

I think you should be nominated for member of the YEAR not only for your patience, but also your belief that GM is really interested in "customer satisfaction"! GM has been this route before. When they start slipping lower in their ranking, maybe we'll see
a real change in their attitude. Maybe a NEW CEO could make a difference?:2cents:

I did give GM another chance and leased a 2013 Buick Verano Turbo that just came out in December. Picked mine up on 1/31. So far, so good! Moves like a ROCKET! My gas mileage, with only 3 fill-ups so far, is better that my Cruze EVER got. That's 250 HP vs 138! I'm hoping my Verano will make me feel a LITTLE better about GM than I did when I had the Cruze. Stay strong!


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

GM needs to admit failure and ditch the 1.4T. First off, it's too small for the weight of the Cruze. Secondly, it obviously has issues somewhere, and third-it just ain't working out!
They have other tested engines to replace it with. They should just ditch the POS 1.8L and make the 1.6T standard and make the 2.5L ecotec optional.
Solves 2 problems-no more mediocre car reviews because of the power train and better reliability.
I call that a win-win for the company and their customers.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I love the 1.4T. It's really pretty spunky and fuel efficient in the manual. They just need to do something about that automatic. 

Perhaps bring in an Aisin transmission instead. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Vast majority of sales are automatic. I wouldn't mind seeing GM change tranny's since the one they have is obviously a stinker, but the car needs a bigger engine, at least as an option.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The 1.4T engine isn't the problem. There are two issues with the coolant smell. One is a possible issue with engine coolant pressure causing the coolant cap to release coolant to protect the engine. The other, which is much more likely is that the smell isn't coming from the engine compartment at all. I have checked under my hood several times now and the smell I'm getting inside the passenger cabin is NOT emanating from the engine. I check by stopping the car, opening the hood, and sniffing. Definitely not the same smell. Also, I suspect, although I haven't checked, that the threads on coolant smell started only after the temperatures in the US and Canada started dropping and we started using the car heaters. If my recollection on the timing of this issue is correct then the coolant smell cannot be coming from the engine bay as it's not there when we're not running our heaters.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> I'm not a mechanic or an engineer, but LIFE EXPERIENCE counts for something!


Bummer about your Cruze. Glad you were able to find a GM vehicle that you're happy with. Life experience is priceless and does count for everything! Just wanting to be a team player. It's halftime right now and GM has me on the sidelines benched until the coach "TAC" calls the next play. I'll see what play they come up with. Hoping for a touchdown and a win-win situation!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> There are two issues with the coolant smell. One is a possible issue with engine coolant pressure causing the coolant cap to release coolant to protect the engine. The other, which is much more likely is that the smell isn't coming from the engine compartment at all.


I will agree that there are possibly two issues regarding the coolant smell. When I had the tape/tube/seal job done correctly there was a noticeable difference inside the cabin. As I mentioned in a previous posting the vapors were entering the cabin when my coolant temp was moving into the 170 range before the tape/tube/seal job. After the completion of the work the vapors were not noticeable until the temp was moving into the 200 range. So the question remains:

1 - Did the tape/tube/seal job work as designed keeping the engine compartment vapors out of the cabin? (Possibly "yes" if it is two issues--one in the engine compartment and one inside the cabin).
2 - If it tape/tube/seal job did work, why are the vapors still appearing? (Possibly coming from somewhere inside the cabin which we know could be the HVAC box lube)

So, hopefully we will soon see/hear what GM is doing behind the scenes. A redesigned HVAC box, surge tank or something else?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I will agree that there are possibly two issues regarding the coolant smell. When I had the tape/tube/seal job done correctly there was a noticeable difference inside the cabin. As I mentioned in a previous posting the vapors were entering the cabin when my coolant temp was moving into the 170 range before the tape/tube/seal job. After the completion of the work the vapors were not noticeable until the temp was moving into the 200 range. So the question remains:
> 
> 1 - Did the tape/tube/seal job work as designed keeping the engine compartment vapors out of the cabin? (Possibly "yes" if it is two issues--one in the engine compartment and one inside the cabin).
> 2 - If it tape/tube/seal job did work, why are the vapors still appearing? (Possibly coming from somewhere inside the cabin which we know could be the HVAC box lube)
> ...


It sounds like your situation is exactly why this has been so hard to resolve. It appears you have had both issues. Having both issues has really complicated resolving either one.


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## william10609 (Dec 13, 2012)

2012 ECO, AT, 10845 miles traded to a 2013 Sonic RS, AT. Trade went smooth, and from the time I filed my BBB Auto line claim until Mar. 1st, about 5 weeks. Noted at trade: antifreeze was down to last mark in coolant tank. That was from a full tank Dec. 27, 2012. Had water pump replaced, heater core next and hose/seals last. I think some of these vehicles are bad and others can be fixed with several of the solutions that have been posted here. While some of us have had less than satisfaction with our CRUZE, there are millions sold with happy drivers.

I do want to thank AMRI and ALLYSHA, my customer service reps from GM for the excellent and professional handling of this.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

UpstateNYBill said:


> I have put off getting involved in any of the coolant smell threads because I don't consider my problem serious, and I have been patiently waiting for a real fix to come out before tackling the coolant smell in my 2012 Cruze.


Thanks for your posting. Bummer that you have involuntarily joined the "stinky club." If you even have the smell in your cabin it is a problem--faint or strong. Your posting is important and another posting for GM and members to read and know that they have another Cruze owner who needs some help. You may want to consider opening a case with GM if you haven't already done so. Looks like you've been on the thread/forum for a while waiting for answers longer than I have. Let us know what the outcome is after your tape/tube/seal job.


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## LS1LOL (Feb 24, 2013)

Is this an issue still on the 2013's as well? Apparently this is occurring in my mothers 2012 and was wondering if it just a matter of time before it happens to mine as well. Thanks.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

LS1LOL said:


> Is this an issue still on the 2013's as well? Apparently this is occurring in my mothers 2012 and was wondering if it just a matter of time before it happens to mine as well. Thanks.


Yes.

If your antifreeze level is kinda low (not at the top of the arrow), don't bother topping it off. That brought the smell around for me, and lowering to the bottom of the arrow has since alleviated it.


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

I have been running mine for sometime now and have the coolant level just a little above the arrow on the tank and no smell at all. Only twice since I have had this car did I notice a coolant smell when I opened the hood only and found that the hose from the radiator had no pressure build up its like the pressure went past the 20lbs for the cap and it vented into the outside. This I believe is normal as it vents and builds pressure up again. I spoke with a Tech at my dealer and every Cruze that comes in for a service of any sorts they refill the overflow tank back up to the arrow again. They do refill quite a few Cars so this problem is BIG.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Gonna speculate a bit......new to the forum but cars is cars and I've got 48 years under my belt.

Surge tanks are not a new technology......they take the place of the top tank that is part of any old top to bottom flow radiator.
Now, before closed cooling systems, using a non- pressurized overflow bottle, the coolant was generally kept in the 1" below the filler neck range.
The radiator caps were in the 14 to 16 lb. range.
If the coolant was in the 1" below the neck range, there was enouph airspace in the tank to approach 14 to 16 psi and the cap would not release any pressure.
As an aside, for those who don't know, a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water (coolant) under pressure has a boiling point of around 235 degrees.
This is necessary because there are areas within the cooling system that operate in excess of 212 degrees and prevents gas bubbles within the passages.

In years subsequent, a coolant overflow bottle along with a positive/negative sealed radiator cap was employed so that the radiator would always be 100% filled, increasing its cooling capacity without changing its dimensions.
Since a liquid cannot be compressed, as soon as the coolant began to expand with engine operation, at 14 to 16 psi, the coolant would be admitted into the overflow bottle.
Once shut off, the coolant in the radiator would contract and, through the negatively sealed cap, would pull coolant back out of the bottle into the radiator, maintaining a 100% fill.

Some time in the late 50's or early 60's Chevrolet intoduced the Corvette with a wider, but shorter radiator so the hoodline could be lowered.
This is called a crossflow (left tank to right tank) radiator, but because of the small airspace volume available, and the fact this radiator had to be 100% filled to adequitly to keep from overheating, a pressurized surge tank was utilized. The 16lb radiator cap was attached to the tank, the same as the 20 psi cap is attached to the cruze.

So, the function of the surge tank, be it in the Corvette, or our Cruze, is the same.......it takes the place, and provides the space for expansion.
In the case of the Corvette, the coolant had to be no closer than two inches below the fill cap on the tank.
If you took it too high, the airspace was inadequite and it would rise beyond 16 psi......puking the coolant out of a overflow hose attached to the radiator cap adaptor on the side and leading to the ground.

Sound familiar?

I contend that the full cold marker on the surge tank is being disregarded by either the factory or the dealer or whomever is getting under the hood.

Full cold means the level of the coolant in the surge tank after sitting overnight.
I wish (nuts, I don't even know if) there was not a 'Full Hot' marker......this because few people understand it has been determined that if it ever exceeds that line, the cap will be enduring 20 psi and will be venting.
Add to that, Chevrolet chose A. To not install a vent line to carry the steam away from the passenger compartment and B. to place that vent point in front of a fresh cabin air inlet.

But, this just proves that engineers, just like doctors, can get their degree with a D-........The degree says they are a Doctor/Lawer/Engineer.

This was/is D- class engineering.

IMO.....At your first opportunity, after the vehicle has been left overnight.(10 hrs) remove the cap and using something like a turkey baster, suck the coolant down to the tip of the arrow pointing at the 3/4" (I think) hose on the passenger side of the tank.
Throughly rinse the radiator cap in fresh water and re-assemble.

To those who have had a coolant smell.......it won't disappear overnight.
That coolant steam that was pulled into the air inlet has condensed inside the cold walled heater box.
Coolant evaporates, but really slowly........don't be surprised if you pick up the scent for a week or two......but it will go away.

Good maintenance means you check your oil/washer solvent/COOLANT LEVEL once a week.....
If all is well, meaning the entire cooling system is not compromised (leaking) you should see your cold coolant level will hardly ever change, summer or winter.
As long as there is any visible coolant in the surge tank, rest assured the radiator is filled to the brim.


Hope that was worth something,
Rob



PS jblackburn and Bohdan have observed what I am trying to define and.............
To those that find the bottle overfilled.......once you drop the level, the oder will take several days to dissapate.
Those vapors have condensed inside the heater case and will take about a week to finally evaporate off.......aaaaaand, you may have to replace the cabin filter as well as the paper pleats will tend to hold coolant for ages.


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## stillok (Dec 23, 2012)

After four unsuccessful tries, the general manager at the dealership decided to replace the heater core. The service department was not completely in agreement with his decision because they were unable to duplicate oder problem with car in garage idling at operating temperature after they did the TSB repairs (they ignored my request to have a service tech drive it a few days to enable him to check it when the oder was occurring). However, they did change the core a few days ago (found no trace of leaking) and it has lessened the problem considerably but not completely. Thus, I presume that I had three problems 1)the original problem (as addressed by the TSB) AND 2) a faulty heater core, (now resolved--will know for sure in a week or so) and 3)now still have the problem of the venting caused by the faulty ECM?.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Regarding item #3......whom is telling you or why do you believe the ECM is involved?


Rob


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Robby said:


> As long as there is any visible coolant in the surge tank, rest assured the radiator is filled to the brim.
> 
> 
> Hope that was worth something,
> ...


This. 

I know my surge tank was pretty full when the Cruze was new. I would say that was also when the smell was strongest outside of the car. After a bit, the level dropped in the surge tank to where it is now, which is only about 1/3 full (give or take), and it has remained there ever since.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

LS1LOL said:


> Is this an issue still on the 2013's as well? Apparently this is occurring in my mothers 2012 and was wondering if it just a matter of time before it happens to mine as well. Thanks.


It would appear that any US built Cruze can have the AF smell. It really depends on what is causing the coolant to become outside the cooling system. Chevy doesn't appear to have the cause(s) identified yet and thus does not have a solution for the problem(s). My supposition is that it is caused by several different conditions, events, or combinations of those to cause the problem. That is why the fix is so long in coming. Quite honestly, I'm betting it won't be fixed until there are major changes done to the cooling system. I'm thinking that it will be late in the '13 MY before they have a fix and I bet it will have software/firmware as a big part of the fix. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

UpstateNYBill,

You can see and likely experienced what I'm getting at......I'd bet the dealer added coolant during pre-delivery and the tank had to keep venting itself down to the level it is now at.

Good observation.

Rob


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Bummer about your Cruze. Glad you were able to find a GM vehicle that you're happy with. Life experience is priceless and does count for everything! Just wanting to be a team player. It's halftime right now and GM has me on the sidelines benched until the coach "TAC" calls the next play. I'll see what play they come up with. Hoping for a touchdown and a win-win situation!


For your sake and SANITY, I'm hoping for a touchdown too!:signs005:


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> My supposition is that it is caused by several different conditions, events, or combinations of those to cause the problem. That is why the fix is so long in coming. Quite honestly, I'm betting it won't be fixed until there are major changes done to the cooling system.


I agree completely.



Jim Frye said:


> I'm thinking that it will be late in the '13 MY before they have a fix and I bet it will have software/firmware as a big part of the fix. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


This wouldn't surprise me at all.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

UpstateNYBill said:


> I have put off getting involved in any of the coolant smell threads because I don't consider my problem serious, and I have been patiently waiting for a real fix to come out before tackling the coolant smell in my 2012 Cruze.
> 
> I finally decided to bring it to my dealer on Friday, as they have a service department that is very responsive to me when I have a concern. I informed them that practically since my Cruze was new, I have frequently detected a strong smell of coolant OUTSIDE the car, and an intermittent faint, or not very noticeable odor inside. Also, I have some residue on the inside of the windshield, which I have had to clean off multiple times. I have no noticeable leaks or coolant loss, and have not had to add any coolant in 45,000 miles of driving.
> 
> ...




UpstateNYBill,
I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing this issue. Have you been in contact with customer service in regards to this? I would be happy to look into this for you and get a service request set up for you. Can you please send me a PM with your name, address, phone number, VIN, current mileage and the name of your dealer? I look forward hearing back from you. 
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## 2012LTZPRETTYLIGHTBLUE (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm taking my 2012 LTZ in for the second time concerning the coolant smell inside and out. Does anyone have a link to the PI-0740 bulletin? Is there any other service bulletins concerning the possible fix for this issue? I love this car and I hope GM can fix this issue soon before more folks head for foreign manufacturers. These are the types of nuisance issues that cause that to happen unfortunately.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

2012LTZPRETTYLIGHTBLUE said:


> I'm taking my 2012 LTZ in for the second time concerning the coolant smell inside and out. Does anyone have a link to the PI-0740 bulletin? Is there any other service bulletins concerning the possible fix for this issue? I love this car and I hope GM can fix this issue soon before more folks head for foreign manufacturers. These are the types of nuisance issues that cause that to happen unfortunately.


Page 93, Posting 928 has the PI instructions. Click on link below.

Antifreeze Smell Thread

I also made an appointment with my service manager to review this PI together. He was glad to pull it up and we walked through the procedures step by step.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, every time I think I might be narrowing this problem down it throws me for another loop. After my tape/tube/seal job I posted that it appeared that it worked to some extent (noticeable difference) based on the coolant temp, but that appears to not be the case today. Before the PI the smell would start to appear in the cabin when my coolant temp reached the 170's. After the PI it appeared that the smell entered the cabin when it reached the 200s. This was pretty consistent until today. The smell appeared once again when the temp hit the 170s. It smelled like I was sticking my nose in a pan of hot coolant just drained from the engine. Just another day of being puzzled and trying to find some consistency with this issue.:question:


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

BSM: Are you getting any moisture at the end of the overflow tube when you have the smell? Also, any moisture around the surge tank cap?


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

JimFrye said:


> BSM: Are you getting any moisture at the end of the overflow tubewhen you have the smell? Also, any moisture around the surge tank cap?


Don't think so as I did check the surge tank/cap yesterday and everything appeared to be okay. No loss of coolant or evidence of coolant residue around the cap. I would have to look at the tube to see if there is any moisture.

Until this happened today I was leaning towards the two separate issues (over pressurization of coolant being released from the surge tank and the HVAC lube) since I had a noticeable shift in coolant temp (170 - 200) before the vapors appeared in the cabin. I still think I have vapors coming in from the engine compartment as it was pretty strong today. If it is the lube in the HVAC box the question still remains--how hot does the lube have to get before it starts emitting a smell? In a previous posting I believe someone posted that the lube started to emit a smell around 200. So, since I have had the PI completed it made sense to me that it appeared the seals were keeping out the engine vapors and I was then dealing with the HVAC box issue. Maybe that is still the case if the lube could emit an odor when it starts cooking around 170(?) Just difficult trying to pinpoint the source especially when you think you are narrowing it down.


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## commutertg (Feb 2, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Don't think so as I did check the surge tank/cap yesterday and everything appeared to be okay. No loss of coolant or evidence of coolant residue around the cap. I would have to look at the tube to see if there is any moisture.
> 
> Until this happened today I was leaning towards the two separate issues (over pressurization of coolant being released from the surge tank and the HVAC lube) since I had a noticeable shift in coolant temp (170 - 200) before the vapors appeared in the cabin. I still think I have vapors coming in from the engine compartment as it was pretty strong today. If it is the lube in the HVAC box the question still remains--how hot does the lube have to get before it starts emitting a smell? In a previous posting I believe someone posted that the lube started to emit a smell around 200. So, since I have had the PI completed it made sense to me that it appeared the seals were keeping out the engine vapors and I was then dealing with the HVAC box issue. Maybe that is still the case if the lube could emit an odor when it starts cooking around 170(?) Just difficult trying to pinpoint the source especially when you think you are narrowing it down.


Big Sky- my odor issue was 90% from the grease in the dash heat box/vent system. I don't know specifics, but my 2013 was new off the assy line and started smelling when the cold weather hit. Maybe is is the constant heating and cooling that breaks it down or the flow of very hot air which breaks it down. Either way the resolution was removing the dash and cleaning up the grease.


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## commutertg (Feb 2, 2013)

stillok said:


> After four unsuccessful tries, the general manager at the dealership decided to replace the heater core. The service department was not completely in agreement with his decision because they were unable to duplicate oder problem with car in garage idling at operating temperature after they did the TSB repairs (they ignored my request to have a service tech drive it a few days to enable him to check it when the oder was occurring). However, they did change the core a few days ago (found no trace of leaking) and it has lessened the problem considerably but not completely. Thus, I presume that I had three problems 1)the original problem (as addressed by the TSB) AND 2) a faulty heater core, (now resolved--will know for sure in a week or so) and 3)now still have the problem of the venting caused by the faulty ECM?.


My heater core was replaced too, but that was not the problem. The problem was the grease in the heater/vent box assembly breaking down and giving off an odor that smells like coolant. It is glycol based


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

commutertg said:


> My heater core was replaced too, but that was not the problem. The problem was the grease in the heater/vent box assembly breaking down and giving off an odor that smells like coolant. It is glycol based


Do you know if GM has a PI on this specific procedure? I wonder if some dealerships are performing it correctly while others may not be.


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

There is a home grown remedy that anyone is free to try that I posted in the first link. Rather than running my hose outside and under the vehicle per the GM bulletin, I used clear tubing and ran it into a clear plastic 16 fl oz bottle that is in front of the battery. A common rubbing alcohol bottle that is readily available. I used some clear silicone RTV around the sides of the tube that plug into the surge tank vent opening. Drilled a tight hole into the side of the bottle and ran my tubing into it and down to the bottom of the bottle, so the tubing end touched the bottom of the bottle. Also drilled a very tiny vent hole into the top metal screw cap of the bottle. Filled my "overflow" bottle with about 1.5 inches of 50/50 coolant mix. And yes, I am getting coolant transfer between the surge tank and my overflow bottle - and back. Simple enough for anyone to try. Also added one plastic tie to hold the hose in place. Picture captures the set up. I have over 2k miles using this set up. If you have a leak in your system, this will not fix your leak. But it will capture any venting that is occurring from the surge tank.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

commutertg said:


> BigSky- my odor issue was 90% from the grease in the dash heat box/vent system. I don't know specifics, but my 2013 was new off the assy line and started smelling when the cold weather hit. Maybe is is the constant heating and cooling that breaks it down or the flow of very hot air which breaks it down. Either way the resolution was removing the dash and cleaning up the grease.


commuterg - I just realized that I did do something different today and that had to do with my temp control. I have been manipulating the temp control with fan speed to control and maintain an environment that is tolerable in the cabin. A cold front moved in last night and so this morning I cranked the temp control to the 3:00 position and had it cranked until I started smelling the coolant/glycol smell. I then flipped my DIC to read the temp and it was reading around 170ish. It was pretty strong and smelled like coolant. This is the same issue I had before the PI0740 (smell coming in when the temp reaches 170ish). Normally when I start out in my car I only check the temp and when it reaches around 130 -140 I back off the temp control to the 12:00 - 1:00 position. These next few days I will see if I continue to get the smell when the temp starts to move into the 170 range with the temp control at the 3:00 position. I think I will get the same results. So, if that is the case, then would the HVAC lube be the culprit as it is heating up and reaching the 170 range?


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I wonder if some dealerships are performing it correctly while others may not be.


I think this is a great question as the level of experience varies from dealer to dealer. If GM does pinpoint the problem and release a PI it is still going to take experienced techs to ensure this job (HVAC box) is completed correctly. If and when GM does pinpoint the problem and releases a PI I think they should somehow send out a team of techs from the Technical Assistance Center and provide training to local dealerships. This may costs $$$$$, but if GM is committed to fixing the problem and doing it right the first time it may pay big dividends to ensure the techs locally are trained. My service manager did indicate that anytime you start getting into the dash you may possibly end up with rattles or squeaks. Nobody wants to keep taking their Cruze back to the dealer to keep “tweaking” a repair that should have been fixed the first time. I know things come up, but a large cooperation who "invests" in properly training their people reaps the benefits of saving $$$$$ and satisfying customers.


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## 2012LTZPRETTYLIGHTBLUE (Dec 13, 2011)

Thanks so much for the link! I appreciate it.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Silver Streak said:


> If you have a leak in your system, this will not fix your leak. But it will capture any venting that is occurring from the surge tank.


So what you're doing is putting the bottle on the end of the tube with the tube submerged in coolant in the bottom of the bottle, then putting a hole in the top of the bottle so air can get in/out? What coolant level are you running in the reservoir, cold level at the fill arrow?


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

2012LTZPRETTYLIGHTBLUE said:


> I'm taking my 2012 LTZ in for the second time concerning the coolant smell inside and out. Does anyone have a link to the PI-0740 bulletin? Is there any other service bulletins concerning the possible fix for this issue? I love this car and I hope GM can fix this issue soon before more folks head for foreign manufacturers. These are the types of nuisance issues that cause that to happen unfortunately.


Let us know if you would like for us to further document this situation and follow up on your visit to the dealership, 2012LTZPRETTYLIGHTBLUE. We're happy to do so if you would contact us privately with more details, including your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN and mileage, and a summary of the situation. 

Sarah (Assisting Stacy), Chevrolet Customer Service


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> So what you're doing is putting the bottle on the end of the tube with the tube submerged in coolant in the bottom of the bottle, then putting a hole in the top of the bottle so air can get in/out? What coolant level are you running in the reservoir, cold level at the fill arrow?


Yes - coolant filled to the top of the arrow when cold.

If you really want to get serious, I saw that auto parts stores sell "universal" overflow bottles. Key is where to mount it on our cars. Maybe the RH side strut tower?


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## cerbomark (Dec 13, 2010)

Chevy Customer Service said:


> Let us know if you would like for us to further document this situation and follow up on your visit to the dealership, 2012LTZPRETTYLIGHTBLUE. We're happy to do so if you would contact us privately with more details, including your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN and mileage, and a summary of the situation.
> 
> Sarah (Assisting Stacy), Chevrolet Customer Service


I went thru this customer service plus my dealer, plus GM and no resolution. They can t fix it and did not offer a buyback.... This is a waste of time for people to be going thru this procedure. Have any issues been resolved??? If I owned this car, I d get a lawyer or just shut up and drive it with it s faults. GM has lost my confidence and $$$ s.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

So my car is new (215 miles) I don't smell anything and have only used my heat, am I in for a surprise down the road or am I in the clear? 

I use AUTO heat 95% of the time and I have AQS set to high, not sure if this means anything but my car recirculates most of the time.


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## cerbomark (Dec 13, 2010)

CruzeDFB said:


> So my car is new (215 miles) I don't smell anything and have only used my heat, am I in for a surprise down the road or am I in the clear?
> 
> I use AUTO heat 95% of the time and I have AQS set to high, not sure if this means anything but my car recirculates most of the time.


 No you are not in the clear. Mine did not start till after a year and 12K or so. Doesn t matter how you set the controls either.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

cerbomark said:


> No you are not in the clear. Mine did not start till after a year and 12K or so. Doesn t matter how you set the controls either.



Oh cerbomark, you have no patience! They have only been working on this problem since 2011. Don't rush them. It's just one more thing they never found in their 4 million miles of testing! Let's not forget that the car was out for two years before coming to the US. Evidently, they never had that problem in any of the 150 countries the Cruze was in during those two years. But, wait, I forgot. The US Cruze is different, so I guess that means we can't compare it to those "foreign" Cruzes. I'd say hang in there cerbomark and just open your windows when you drive with the heat on so you are not overcome by the fumes or breathing them in. GM is "diligently" working to solve this problem. :question: After all, GM has this new "customer service" system in place to try and maintain their customer base! You all think it's working?:icon_scratch:


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> Oh cerbomark, you have no patience! They have only been working on this problem since 2011. Don't rush them. It's just one more thing they never found in their 4 million miles of testing! Let's not forget that the car was out for two years before coming to the US. Evidently, they never had that problem in any of the 150 countries the Cruze was in during those two years. But, wait, I forgot. The US Cruze is different, so I guess that means we can't compare it to those "foreign" Cruzes. I'd say hang in there cerbomark and just open your windows when you drive with the heat on so you are not overcome by the fumes or breathing them in. GM is "diligently" working to solve this problem. :question: After all, GM has this new "customer service" system in place to try and maintain their customer base! You all think it's working?:icon_scratch:


Bravo! Well said!!!!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> Bravo! Well said!!!!


I'm sure people get pissed off when I post things like this, but it IS the truth! You spend hard earned money for a NEW car and then have problems, minor and major, and GM does NOT stand behind their product OR makes believe they are with a LOT of talk, but NO action! 

My Cruze was a case in point with it's erratic shifting and lack of acceleration at times. It was most noticeable in stop and go driving which is where I drive! IF I drove the highways all the time, my Cruze would have been PERFECT because it would not have to shift all the time! Unfortunately, that was not the case for me. I spent over 6 months dealing with 3 different people in "customer service" at the Business Resource Center and 1 person from GM Corporate! It was all TALK! If GM was REALLY interested in keeping their customer base, they would take complaints like mine SERIOUSLY! Oh yeah, they put in a new TCM at 10,196 miles last August that did nothing! Then, 5 MONTHS later and a TON of phone calls from GM, they had an engineer look at my 2011 Cruze this past January! He drove it for 13 MILES and decided that it was "operating as designed"! They had the car for 5 days! No clue why. I told them to keep the car as long as they wanted because I had my trusty 2004 Chevy Aveo that has had almost NO problems since new! It goes when I step on the gas and it shifts just fine! Waited 4 months for this car to come from Korea! It's a 4 dr LS with every option! Ordered in January and arrived in May 2004! BTW- that was a FIRST YEAR car also!


It just amazes me how some people put up with so much BS from GM when they have a major problem. Good luck to them if they think GM or their customer service reps care about them. I guess GM thinks that people will BELIEVE they care by putting reps in forums like this and on FaceBook and other places! They do nothing that you can't do yourself! They CANNOT solve your problem. All they can do is report your concerns to the dealer.


One of the service advisors at my dealer had a 2011 Cruze also. She had the transmission problem AND the antifreeze smell! GM did NOTHING to help her, SO WHAT would EVER make ME believe that they were going to help ME! She got rid of hers at a big $$$$ loss and got a 2012 model with no problems. I played along so they would not say I was unreasonable or wanted things done yesterday! However, after 6 months of all this BS, I had enough! The Cruze is GONE and was replaced with a 2013 Buick Verano Turbo! NO comparison to the Cruze no matter what the "experts" claim! Picked it up on 1/31- a week after the GM engineer said my Cruze was "operating as designed"!

I really like GM cars and have had many over the past 50 years with NO problems like the Cruze, so I wanted to stick with GM for now. IF this Verano has any major problems and GM won't address them, there will NEVER be another GM car in my garage! I have PLENTY of other choices! :dizzy:


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> I'm sure people get pissed off when I post things like this, but it IS the truth! You spend hard earned money for a NEW car and then have problems, minor and major, and GM does NOT stand behind their product OR makes believe they are with a LOT of talk, but NO action!
> 
> My Cruze was a case in point with it's erratic shifting and lack of acceleration at times. It was most noticeable in stop and go driving which is where I drive! IF I drove the highways all the time, my Cruze would have been PERFECT because it would not have to shift all the time! Unfortunately, that was not the case for me. I spent over 6 months dealing with 3 different people in "customer service" at the Business Resource Center and 1 person from GM Corporate! It was all TALK! If GM was REALLY interested in keeping their customer base, they would take complaints like mine SERIOUSLY! Oh yeah, they put in a new TCM at 10,196 miles last August that did nothing! Then, 5 MONTHS later and a TON of phone calls from GM, they had an engineer look at my 2011 Cruze this past January! He drove it for 13 MILES and decided that it was "operating as designed"! They had the car for 5 days! No clue why. I told them to keep the car as long as they wanted because I had my trusty 2004 Chevy Aveo that has had almost NO problems since new! It goes when I step on the gas and it shifts just fine! Waited 4 months for this car to come from Korea! It's a 4 dr LS with every option! Ordered in January and arrived in May 2004! BTW- that was a FIRST YEAR car also!
> 
> ...


Good for you- not sure what the difference was but GM bought my car back but others have not been offered that. So nice to be driving a car while inhaling clean air now. It's the little things you take for granted  lol


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

No more buybacks now that they have a "certified engineering fix" going into production. That is the latest from Customer Assistance.

Once again, bypass working directly with GM and you won't have to listen to the constant stream of I'm sorry, but I cannot do that.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Any idea what the "certified engineering fix" is?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> Good for you- not sure what the difference was but GM bought my car back but others have not been offered that. So nice to be driving a car while inhaling clean air now. It's the little things you take for granted  lol



I never had the antifreeze smell, just the crappy transmission! MAYBE GM figures that the antifreeze smell could lead to lawsuits because I don't imagine it's good to breathe those fumes in a closed environment over a long period of time.

Anyway, I'm glad they took care of you. GM should NOT pick and choose who they do the buybacks for. They probably have a quota for the year on how many they do because when they do a buyback, the title has to show that the car was a buyback which in turn diminishes its value.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

upstater said:


> No more buybacks now that they have a "certified engineering fix" going into production. That is the latest from Customer Assistance.
> 
> Once again, bypass working directly with GM and you won't have to listen to the constant stream of I'm sorry, but I cannot do that.


That's just customer service blowing smoke up your ass, if they had a fix, they would have told you what it was. I have my attorneys working the lemon law on GM at the moment, for a full repurchase. Time to start test driving!!


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

obermd said:


> Any idea what the "certified engineering fix" is?


They had 5 special ordered HVAC boxes built. They said they had field tested several and all the smell problems were eliminated. They told me they needed my car in the dealer's shop within 48 hours or they were going to give my tagged box to the next on the list. Told them great news, but I already turned in my Lemon Law paperwork and the first party with an acceptable offer to get me out of the Cruze was the way I am going.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Update: My service manager contacted me today and shared the following information

- A PI for the HVAC box procedure has been written and finalized for distribution
- The PI will not be released until the supplier has the parts available to support the PI procedure
- There are HVAC boxes built to start the process
- It appears that once the repairs begin that it may be an "exchange" process meaning that the rebuilt box goes in and the removed box is shipped back (possibly to rebuild for another vehicle). My service manager was not able to confirm this process, but it appeared that this may be the thinking to manage the repair procedure
- My service manager did seem to believe that something will surface soon.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Update: My service manager contacted me today and shared the following information
> 
> - A PI for the HVAC box procedure has been written and finalized for distribution
> - The PI will not be released until the supplier has the parts available to support the PI procedure
> ...


I think YOU should have been in Rome today, in Vatican Square, so you could have been BLESSED by the new Pope! :3tens:


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> - My service manager did seem to believe that something will surface soon.


No doubt there will be a long lineup of people waiting for these revised parts, so once the info is released it still may take a while to get the ball rolling. At least there seems to be some genuine light at the end of the tunnel!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> I think YOU should have been in Rome today, in Vatican Square, so you could have been BLESSED by the new Pope! :3tens:


Well, I wasn't in Rome to be blessed, but the warm weather these past few weeks is a blessing as I am able to keep the heat off and enjoy the ride By the way nice Buick Verano!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Update: My service manager contacted me today and shared the following information
> 
> - A PI for the HVAC box procedure has been written and finalized for distribution
> - The PI will not be released until the supplier has the parts available to support the PI procedure
> ...


For those of us who are waiting for a resolution to this issue this is a really good solution. 

I suspect the HVAC box exchange is to send the original boxes back to be cleaned and re-lubricated. There doesn't appear to be an issue with the HVAC box itself, just the lubricant used. Because glycol is a known poison, this one may end up as a recall to avoid lawsuits down the road - cheaper to fix the problem than defend a glycol fumes related lawsuit.

This has been a real pain to resolve simply because the smell is so close to that of DexCool. Hopefully the PI will also instruct dealerships to replace any coolant surge tanks that had the earlier PI to reroute "coolant fumes" to the bottom of the engine compartment.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Lets not freak folks out.

Glycol, injested, is a poison that will destroy kidneys.

Glycol fumes, in the concentration that would exist in the cabin are just that, fumes.
I imagine if the concentration could reach 50% it could be sickening......like I wanna puke, but I would hope one would've bailed out of the car at that point.

Unpleasant yes, life shortening, doubtful.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> Lets not freak folks out.
> 
> Glycol, injested, is a poison that will destroy kidneys.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately we have to think of the lowest common denominator - in this case an ambulance chasing class action lawyer who sees $$$ over this issue.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> Hopefully the PI will also instruct dealerships to replace any coolant surge tanks that had the earlier PI to reroute "coolant fumes" to the bottom of the engine compartment.


This would not be necessary. As long as the surge tank has the ability to vent, it won't care where it vents to. I strongly doubt that any harm could come to the cooling system because of this modification. If it were a risk at all they would not have done it in the first place.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> Glycol, injested, is a poison that will destroy kidneys.
> 
> Glycol fumes, in the concentration that would exist in the cabin are just that, fumes.


While I'm not sure about the lubricant "fumes" from the HVAC box, I know when actual "coolant" evaporates it's not actually the glycol coolant evaporating, it's the water in the coolant evaporating (the glycol coolant boils at a much higher temperature than the water does). So what you are smelling is water vapor that smells like coolant and I doubt very much that there's a high concentration of anything toxic in what you're actually breathing in.

Now if you took coolant and boiled it in a pot on the stove, put your face down close and draped a towel over your head to concentrate the vapor, well then I could see a problem (and a little searching on the internet will confirm this). But there's a HUGE difference in the concentration of what it takes to smell something and breathing it in concentrated form. Sure, you don't want to smell it at all, but just because you can smell it doesn't mean it's hurting you.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> This would not be necessary. As long as the surge tank has the ability to vent, it won't care where it vents to. I strongly doubt that any harm could come to the cooling system because of this modification. If it were a risk at all they would not have done it in the first place.


It is going to be interesting to note if the tape/tube/sealant PI was ever the "fix" as it appears not many if anyone truly had success with this PI. As we know, not all Cruzes have this problem which leads me to believe that it is not the surge tank/pressure cap issue. When I am called to have the box R/R I am going to ask for the surge tank to be replaced after I can confirm that the smell has dissipated. I think it is important and hope that GM will continue to evaluate the surge tank issue and not leave the tape/tube dangling from the tank.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> It is going to be interesting to note if the tape/tube/sealant PI was ever the "fix" as it appears not many if anyone truly had success with this PI. As we know, not all Cruzes have this problem which leads me to believe that it is not the surge tank/pressure cap issue. When I am called to have the box R/R I am going to ask for the surge tank to be replaced after I can confirm that the smell has dissipated. I think it is important and hope that GM will continue to evaluate the surge tank issue and not leave the tape/tube dangling from the tank.


I thought the Surge Tank Issue was resolved by draining some of the coolant out to allow for expansion and replacing the cap.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

CruzeDFB said:


> I thought the Surge Tank Issue was resolved by draining some of the coolant out to allow for expansion and replacing the cap.


In general, it seems thats all the problem really is.
Sometimes engineering can't see the forest for the trees.

Too simple.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I think it is important and hope that GM will continue to evaluate the surge tank issue and not leave the tape/tube dangling from the tank.


Yes, the surge tank venting is another issue entirely, but I imagine the tape/tube job is only a cosmetic concern, not a functional one. I wonder if the dealerships are keeping the little plastic vent covers they're removing from the surge tanks... I doubt it, and I also doubt they can be ordered seperate of the surge tank. You might get some resistance asking them to return the surge tank to its original state.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> You might get some resistance asking them to return the surge tank to its original state.


Possibly, so far everyone has been working with me from customer service to my service manager. My service manager is awesome and he is on my side. So, I do think if GM is resistant to my requests I think my service manager will do what he can to make something work. It appears that he has a good relationship with his district rep and they both are wanting this issue resolved ASAP. I continue to make "customer satisfaction" my priority and have expectations of GM to provide the services required to keep my vehicle safe, serviced, and me - satisfied! I will not ask for anything that is not within their scope of commitment to the consumer.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> This would not be necessary. As long as the surge tank has the ability to vent, it won't care where it vents to. I strongly doubt that any harm could come to the cooling system because of this modification. If it were a risk at all they would not have done it in the first place.


This modification eliminates the ability of the the car's cooling system to remain pressurized up to the rated 20 PSI of the cap. Basically unless there is a pressure block in this modification the coolant will boil at a lower temperature than the ECU is attempting to maintain, resulting in unnecessary loss of coolant. From the description I've seen on this PI the only pressure block in this mod is the pressure it takes to push hot gasses through a quarter inch tube. There is no risk to the engine assuming the car's owner is watching the coolant levels, but how many people today pay attention to their fluid levels. This is why we have the fill the gas idiot light - people not paying attention to the condition of their car.

<NOTE:> Don't stop reading here - Blue Angel was able to correct me on my statement here about the cooling system pressurization. </NOTE>


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> This modification eliminates the ability of the the car's cooling system to remain pressurized...


?

Without pressure the coolant would boil easier, making the venting issue WORSE. Where did you read that the PI removed the ability for the cooling system to remain pressurized?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> ?
> 
> Without pressure the coolant would boil easier, making the venting issue WORSE. Where did you read that the PI removed the ability for the cooling system to remail pressurized?


The coolant tank cap is a pressure relief cap at 20 PSI, allowing the coolant to run at temps above it's sea level boiling point of 14 PSI. Take a close look at how the tube is connected. Basically a hole is poked in the tank and the hose is plugged into this hole and routed down to the bottom of the engine. The only thing restricting vapors from escaping and pressure build up to the rated 20 PSI is the resistance of vapor travel through a two to three foot long quarter inch plastic tube. As a result, the coolant system pressure will now closely track the ambient atmospheric pressure, resulting in a lower boiling point for the coolant mixture.

According to the materials data sheet, DexCool boils at 226 F at sea level. Water boils at 212 F at sea level. The Cruze ECU likes to keep the car around 215-220 F when the engine is lightly loaded. Under load it drops the temp as low as the upper 170s to protect the engine from overheating.

Any modifications to the coolant system that don't protect the integrity of the pressurized chamber will result in coolant levels dropping. The only question is how quickly. This is basic chemistry of a boiling liquid.

As for the PI itself, the thought behind it appears to be that the coolant vapors being released by the pressure cap were being sucked into the cabin air intake, which sits about four inches above the cap and directly in the above car air-stream about a foot directly behind it at the base of the windshield. The PI, when installed correctly, reduces the boiling point of the coolant, which in turns prevents the pressure cap from releasing coolant by providing a lower pressure escape route, and then routes the resulting coolant vapors to the bottom of the engine bay where the under car air-stream will flush the vapors to the back of the car. The fact that it didn't help the coolant smell of any car that was reported here is very telling - the coolant odor is NOT coming from the engine bay unless another leak can be found.

=====================

As I said in another post, the coolant smell issue in the Cruze's cabin has been very difficult to track down for a few reasons:

- Some Cruzen have had faulty water pumps resulting in leaks
- Some Cruzen didn't have a full coolant fill at the factory and had air bubbles in the coolant system. As these air bubbles worked their way out of the system they collected in the surge/fill tank, which is the highest point in this system. This appears to be a leak, but isn't.
- Some Cruzen have had faulty pressure caps, which appear to have been redesigned somewhere near the end of the 2011 or beginning of the 2012 model year. These caps leaked as well.
- Some Cruzen, mainly 2011 model year, had faulty cabin compartment heater cores which leaked.
- Many Cruzen with the cabin smells have no indications of coolant leaks

Given the above five items, I can understand why GM Engineering was having a real issue tracking down the cabin leak. GM got lucky that a dealership tech spent the time to check the HVAC system in a car that was having the heater core replaced and noticed excessive lubricant, which when heated, smells nearly the same as DexCool.

I suspect the final TSB for this issue will include the following:

Check for engine coolant leaks if the coolant level isn't at a certain point or the car has a dealership recorded history of having to have the coolant levels refilled. If a leak is found during this check, fix it and return the car to the owner unless there are other non-glycol smells reported in the cabin. As I explained above, the PI modification to the surge tank is a leak relative to the original design of the system and thus will require a repair. If the car passes this leak check or had the tank modification PI done and still stinks, disassemble the cabin HVAC system and either remove the existing lubricant and replace it with a different lubricant, or more likely, because it will take less time at the dealership, replace the HVAC ducting with ducting that uses a different lubricant. Reassemble and return the car to the owner. From the car owner's point of view the repair is complete - GM may or may not ask for the old HVAC components back for cleaning, re-lubricating, and reuse.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd?

You successfully have my head spinning here.......I've read your response several times aaaaaaand I believe something got lost in translation regarding the surge tank modification.

First, the surge tank relief port was not drilled...it already exists.
The modification is simply removing the liquid coolant guide (that plastic thingy that goes from the top of the tank and leads down the side.
This exposes the relief port.
A hose is pushed onto the port and the tape is to secure the line across the tank in the hopes of preventing vibration from pulling it back off the port.
The function and pressure holding capability of the surge tank has not been altered in any way.

I said somewhere else, this is a situation where engineering can't see the forest for the trees.
The outgassing from the tank vent is occuring because tank pressure is rising past 20 psi, the pressure caps limit.

The tank is overpressuring because the coolant is being put at too high a level when at ambient temperature and because the airspace has become so small, due to the coolant displacing the air in the tank, it quickly exceeds the 20 psi limit.

When the cap reaches its design limit it releases the tank pressure back down to 20 psi and reseats.
This release, reseat routine will go on till the coolant expands no further at operating temperature......as as we all know, it exhales just ahead of the HVAC air intake.

The installation of the hose was, I believe, in the hopes of redirecting the vapor.
Trouble is, it isn't supposed to exceed 20 psi in the first place so the concern is still not addressed.

And, it never will be till G.M. tells everyone from the assembly line to the mechanics doing the pre-deliverys to the consumers what the COLD level (ambient) of the coolant in the surge tank should be.......it is not even stated in the owners manual.....just says keep it at the correct level.

The only marker on the surge tank is a arrow that says 'FULL HOT'......well, thats just great but useless....unless you really want to remove a cap, under pressure, with scalding coolant that will blow out the moment the pressure drops.

I found by having the cold, first thing in the morning cold, coolant level 1/2" above the lower tank inlet hose, in line with the top of the verticle cast in the plastic line that is centered over that lower hose nipple, the surge tank pressure rises to 14psi and stays there regardless of the length of my trip.

I proved this by operating the vehicle with a pressure tester installed in place of the cap and bunge corded away from moving parts.

I still contend.....the majority of these concerns are a result of inadvertent overfilling of the surge tank due to G.M.s inability to provide a 'FULL COLD' marker and poor/imprecise info in the owners manual.

The heater cores, water pumps, heater boxes may be contributing to the concern but I am only interested in trying to keep those of us with sound cooling/heating systems from having a problem due to coolant level.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> obermd?
> 
> You successfully have my head spinning here.......I've read your response several times aaaaaaand I believe something got lost in translation regarding the surge tank modification.


Rob, you beat me to it. I just got back from the dentist... I didn't want to get into a long reply using my iPhone.



Robby said:


> *The only marker on the surge tank is a arrow that says 'FULL HOT'*......well, thats just great but useless....unless you really want to remove a cap, under pressure, with scalding coolant that will blow out the moment the pressure drops.
> 
> I found by having the cold, first thing in the morning cold, coolant level 1/2" above the lower tank inlet hose, in line with the top of the verticle cast in the plastic line that is centered over that lower hose nipple, the *surge tank pressure rises to 14psi and stays there regardless of the length of my trip.
> 
> ...


GREAT work! I don't have a pressure tester so I was doing it the long way working backwards... reading all of the coolant smell threads, reading about the vent line fix and then assuming this to be the problem, I topped my surge tank up to the arrow when COLD (I didn't think to look for something telling me that was the cold or hot fill line - who would?). As soon as I topped off my surge tank I started smelling coolant when coming to a stop after having the engine under load. My plan was to drive the car until the water vapor escaping the surge tank vent eventually lowered the coolant level until the venting stopped and, assuming the cap holds exactly 20 psi, marking the new cold coolant level and reporting this to the forum. You have expedited that process.

What I might ask of you is, when the weather warms up if you're able to experiment by adding a little coolant until the system pressure peaks at around 16-18 psi, then we could safely claim _that_ amount of coolant is the ideal COLD fill and give a reference to forum members as to how they need to PROPERLY fill their surge tanks. If the level in my car stabilizes by then it will give a 2 car sample, and further forum feedback can solidify the data.

What would the world do without car forums?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> The coolant tank cap is a pressure relief cap at 20 PSI, allowing the coolant to run at temps above it's sea level boiling point of 14 PSI.
> 
> According to the materials data sheet, DexCool boils at 226 F at sea level. Water boils at 212 F at sea level. The Cruze ECU likes to keep the car around 215-220 F when the engine is lightly loaded. Under load it drops the temp as low as the upper 170s to protect the engine from overheating.


Coolant at sea level is at 15 psi absolute (actually ~14.7, but close enough). A Cruze at sea level with a 20 psi tank cap will allow 20 psi gauge pressure to build inside the cooling system, and at that point the coolant is actually at 35 psi absolute pressure (15 psi absolute + 20 psi gauge). I'm pretty sure that's what you meant to say but it just didn't come across clearly.

Most cars come with a 15 psi cap which raises the boiling point of 50/50 Dexcool to about 265F. The 20 psi cap on the Cruze will increase this temperature slightly beyond that, but not much.

Another thing to consider: The Engine Coolant Temperature sensor is measuring the _average_ temperature of the coolant exiting the cylinder head. Some of the coolant, like the coolant that cools the exhaust valve area of the cylinder head, will actually get much hotter than that before mixing with colder coolant and exiting the head. Then, hot coolant that has already passed by the ECT sensor is fed to the oil cooler and the turbo. The coolant in this engine gets HOT, much hotter than most people realize.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> obermd?
> 
> You successfully have my head spinning here.......I've read your response several times aaaaaaand I believe something got lost in translation regarding the surge tank modification.
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is that there are two pressure relief systems - on in the cap and one built into the tank - in the Cruze's cooling system. If the tank has a built in pressure relief valve why go through the expense of making a pressure relief cap? Pressure relief caps are expensive compared to non-pressure relief caps. Also, what is the pressure required to vent out the tank's pressure relieve valve and why isn't the tank's built in pressure relief system used instead? Either this relief location has a higher pressure requirement or it's sealed off because it's too low for the Cruze's requirements. If it's a higher pressure, the hose reroute isn't routing any vapors out at all unless it also compromises this valve's pressure holding ability. If it's at a lower pressure, the tank will vent at a lower pressure as I stated in my previous post. In either case the only way attaching a hose to the side of the coolant tank work is if it provides a lower pressure escape route for the vapors, which directly leads to my original statement that the hose ventilation PI is a potential compromise to the engine cooling system and the final solution needs to restore the tank's pressure integrity.



Robby said:


> I said somewhere else, this is a situation where engineering can't see the forest for the trees.
> The outgassing from the tank vent is occuring because tank pressure is rising past 20 psi, the pressure caps limit.


Agreed. The question remains "why", which I think your next section addresses.



Robby said:


> The tank is overpressuring because the coolant is being put at too high a level when at ambient temperature and because the airspace has become so small, due to the coolant displacing the air in the tank, it quickly exceeds the 20 psi limit.
> 
> When the cap reaches its design limit it releases the tank pressure back down to 20 psi and reseats.
> This release, reseat routine will go on till the coolant expands no further at operating temperature......as as we all know, it exhales just ahead of the HVAC air intake.


This is operating as designed. Putting the HVAC air intake on the left side of the car in left hand drive countries is a design flaw. One of our Austrailan members posted a picture of the HVAC intake on his Cruze. It's on the right side of the cabin as is the steering wheel. I have no idea why GM is flipping the entire HVAC system when they flipped the steering system for left vs. right hand drive unless it's because of the space required by the driver vehicle controls (steering column, pedals, etc.)



Robby said:


> The installation of the hose was, I believe, in the hopes of redirecting the vapor.


The hose will only redirect coolant vapors if it provides a lower pressure relief route than the 20 PSI cap. The fact that GM came up with this as a possible solution tells me the hose does indeed result in a lower coolant system pressure.



Robby said:


> Trouble is, it isn't supposed to exceed 20 psi in the first place so the concern is still not addressed.
> 
> And, it never will be till G.M. tells everyone from the assembly line to the mechanics doing the pre-deliverys to the consumers what the COLD level (ambient) of the coolant in the surge tank should be.......it is not even stated in the owners manual.....just says keep it at the correct level.


Again - agreed. The Cruze is the first car I've owned that doesn't have "full cold" and "full hot" on the coolant tank. Having just the arrow is very, very confusing. Is the bottom of the arrow "full cold" and the top "full hot". 



Robby said:


> The only marker on the surge tank is a arrow that says 'FULL HOT'......well, thats just great but useless....unless you really want to remove a cap, under pressure, with scalding coolant that will blow out the moment the pressure drops.
> 
> I found by having the cold, first thing in the morning cold, coolant level 1/2" above the lower tank inlet hose, in line with the top of the verticle cast in the plastic line that is centered over that lower hose nipple, the surge tank pressure rises to 14psi and stays there regardless of the length of my trip.
> 
> ...


Since the cap is rated for 20 PSI and your fill level is below the bottom of the arrow, I wonder if the bottom of the arrow will result in just shy of 20 PSI for most driving conditions. Recently we have had other members report that they didn't start smelling coolant until their coolant was filled to the arrow head, which leads credence to the top of the arrow being "full hot". We definitely need GM to clarify the correct "full cold" coolant level for the Cruze. 



Robby said:


> The heater cores, water pumps, heater boxes may be contributing to the concern but I am only interested in trying to keep those of us with sound cooling/heating systems from having a problem due to coolant level.
> 
> Rob


The fact that there are so many possible sources of glycol vapors is probably the single most important reason this issue has taken so long to resolve.

Mike.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Coolant at sea level is at 15 psi absolute (actually ~14.7, but close enough). A Cruze at sea level with a 20 psi tank cap will allow 20 psi gauge pressure to build inside the cooling system, and at that point the coolant is actually at 35 psi absolute pressure (15 psi absolute + 20 psi gauge). I'm pretty sure that's what you meant to say but it just didn't come across clearly.
> 
> Most cars come with a 15 psi cap which raises the boiling point of 50/50 Dexcool to about 265F. The 20 psi cap on the Cruze will increase this temperature slightly beyond that, but not much.
> 
> Another thing to consider: The Engine Coolant Temperature sensor is measuring the _average_ temperature of the coolant exiting the cylinder head. Some of the coolant, like the coolant that cools the exhaust valve area of the cylinder head, will actually get much hotter than that before mixing with colder coolant and exiting the head. Then, hot coolant that has already passed by the ECT sensor is fed to the oil cooler and the turbo. The coolant in this engine gets HOT, much hotter than most people realize.


Thanks for the clarification on coolant pressures and boiling points. Assuming the 50/50 mix drops it's boiling point at the same rate as water results in a boiling point of 238 F at the highest point on I-70 (11,600 ft), which is well above the temperatures I have seen at after climbing the two I-70 passes in Colorado.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Rob, you beat me to it. I just got back from the dentist... I didn't want to get into a long reply using my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Filled right to the bottom of the line on the arrow, which is juuuuuusssst above that lower hose, no smells for me. It all changed when I filled it too much. 

Apparently it expands about halfway up that arrow (this is about 8 oz of movement judging by what I took back out) when hot. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd, there is only one location for the tank to vent with or without the modification done. When pressure builds and exceeds 20 psi, vapor exits through the cap. The cap exit goes through the vent on the side of the tank. GM did not add a second exit with the PI, they just took the existing vent and extended it to below the vehicle.

The cooling system still pressurizes as intended.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> obermd, there is only one location for the tank to vent with or without the modification done. When pressure builds and exceeds 20 psi, vapor exits through the cap. The cap exit goes through the vent on the side of the tank. GM did not add a second exit with the PI, they just took the existing vent and extended it to below the vehicle.
> 
> The cooling system still pressurizes as intended.
> 
> ...


OK, now I'm confused. Is the cap a pressure release cap or not? If it's a pressure relief cap how is the vapor routed from the cap into the tube?

Does anyone have a good picture of how the tube added in PI-0740 is attached to the tank and how it relates to the cap?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Regarding the pressure relief cap (radiator/surge tank cap).

When cold, remove the cap.

Note the 'O' ring at the lower section of the cap and visualize its position when installed in the surge tank.
The 'O' ring seals the fill hole below the level of the vent hole.
When surge tank pressure exceeds 20psi, the internal valving in the cap opens and vents above the 'O' ring into the area of the fill neck between the 'O' ring and the very top of the surge tank fill hole.
This section is about 1/2" deep.
When the cap is forced to vent, the overpressure is released into this chamber and exits out the port that we see on the left side of the tank.

The point that I keep trying to make is, by misinterpeting the coolant level (cold, ambient temperature) and in so doing, overfilling it, we are forcing the system to vent.......it is working correctly.
Pressure much beyond 20psi will burst hoses and turn the surge tank into a balloon.......not what was intended.

By using the level I have mentioned as our 'COLD' starting point we are succeeding in:

1. Starting the vehicle cold knowing that the entire cooling system is full.....remember, the tank is only a place for coolant to go as it expands.
2. Assuring ourselves that the only time we smell coolant is because the cap or some other element of the cooling system has been compromised and is calling for attention.

In truth, rather simple and a example of what can happen when a concern gets 'overcooked' with thought and misunderstanding without stepping back and taking a moment to rethink whats happening here.

All this, for something as simple as overlooking the need for a 'FULL COLD' marker.

Like I said....Can't see the forest for the trees.

Old saying.....but I'm old (er)

Rob

BTW, For purposes of clarification, the Cold level I mention at the lower tank hose corresponds with the SECOND line up from the bottom of the tank viewed from the front of the tank.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

As a addentum.

If you have been dealing with this odor for a long time.....like months or longer, you may still smell coolant after dropping the tank level.
You likely will have to replace the cabin air filter (behind the glove box door) because, over time, the fibers of the filter have trapped condensed coolant.
Every time humid air is drawn through the filter it will dampen the dried residue and the odor will return, making you think the problem has not been resolved.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> Regarding the pressure relief cap (radiator/surge tank cap).
> 
> When cold, remove the cap.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the description. Even without seeing a picture, you painted a clear enough picture I now have a visual of how the cap operates. There really is only one pressure relief valve and the spot the tube is plugged into is simply a secondary output for this single relief valve.

I retract my earlier statement about the tubing compromising the tank integrity. I still think the reason this issue has taken so long is that there are multiple possible problems. You have clarified one of the problem areas. Is there anyway you can find out what the actual "full cold" mark level of the coolant should be. Also, I'll ask my service adviser today if this information is available, and if so, what the actual cold fill level should be.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> As a addentum.
> 
> If you have been dealing with this odor for a long time.....like months or longer, you may still smell coolant after dropping the tank level.
> You likely will have to replace the cabin air filter (behind the glove box door) because, over time, the fibers of the filter have trapped condensed coolant.
> ...


I changed my cabin filter at 15K miles and it definitely helped remove the dirty sock smell from my car, but didn't eliminate the smell, which means I still have a dirty sock in the HVAC system.  Any idea what the recommended change interval for this filter is? I'm planning on changing mine every 15K or so. It's an easy change, just not documented in the owner's manual on how to do it.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> ...I'll ask my service adviser today if this information is available, and if so, what the actual cold fill level should be.


This will be interesting. Be sure to let us know what they say!

A while back I went to my dealer to investigate, and though I didn't talk to anyone I did get to check the coolant level of a brand new Cruze on the showroom floor. The cold coolant level was right at the tip of the arrow, so apparently someone at the dealership doesn't know this is the "HOT" level line. If all the cars they sell are topped up to this level before delivery, every car will vent fumes... DOH!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> This will be interesting. Be sure to let us know what they say!
> 
> A while back I went to my dealer to investigate, and though I didn't talk to anyone I did get to check the coolant level of a brand new Cruze on the showroom floor. The cold coolant level was right at the tip of the arrow, so apparently someone at the dealership doesn't know this is the "HOT" level line. If all the cars they sell are topped up to this level before delivery, every car will vent fumes... DOH!


Definitely, which is why I'm going to ask. My car is in right now for various smells, not all of which are glycol based (dirty socks, clutch burning only when running the A/C in cold weather) and notchy steering. None of the odors in my cabin are apparent outside the car or under the hood, so the engine is not the source of the odors. I have stopped multiple times and checked.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> All this, for something as simple as overlooking the need for a 'FULL COLD' marker.


Rob, how did you determine that the arrow on the surge tank is actually indicating the "Full HOT" level?

I just examined my surge tank with a flashlight and can't find any markings whatsoever on the tank, other than the two arrows and the "ribs" on the front passenger side of the tank. There is absolutely no indication of whether the arrows indicate "Full COLD" or "Full HOT".

In my (somewhat limited) experience, any surge tanks I've seen with only one indicated fill level have shown "Full COLD". I've seen several tanks with both hot and cold fill levels marked (my Corvette has both), but I've never seen a surge tank with only a hot fill level marked. As you suggested before, this wouldn't make sense to do and would lead to the assumption that the arrows are indicating the cold level?

Is your surge tank marked differently from mine? Did you find something in the owner's manual? A service manual?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Rob, I did a little digging and found this Vauxhall Workshop Manual: Cooling System Draining and Filling

Vauxhall Workshop Manuals - Astra J - Cooling System Draining and Filling

It is for the Vauxhall Astra J (current model) which is built on the DeltaII platform (same as the Cruze) and also uses the LUJ 1.4L Turbo engine.The procedure and illustrations suggest that the Astra shares the same radiator and surge tank as the Cruze (they look the same in the drawings and appear to have the same features). It also indicates that with the engine COLD and the cooling system properly purged of air, the coolant level should be set to the weld area (where the top and bottom half of the surge tank are joined). This is roughly where the arrows are... thoughts?

EDIT: Just checked again, the arrows point to the first rib BELOW the weld line, so it is possible the arrows were added as a revision to lower the coolant level slightly. Here's the pic from the manual:








(1. Points to the weld line, the arrows are set at the first rib below that)

My coolant level seems to be holding pretty steady at the arrows (fill mark) and I haven't noticed any coolant vapor smell in a while. When I topped it off it was just a hair above the fill mark. It is relatively cold here, though, so this may change as temps increase along with the thermal load on the cooling system. After I topped the level off I was getting regular "whiffs" of coolant vapor whenever coming to a stop after having a load on the engine, but that seems to have stopped. Could it be that my cooling system has "stabilized" and is no longer exceeding the cap pressure?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks - I'll check my tank this afternoon to see where the coolant level is and where the North American arrow is. I think, but can't remember for certain, that the arrow is entirely above the weld line.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> Thanks - I'll check my tank this afternoon to see where the coolant level is and where the North American arrow is. I think, but can't remember for certain, that the arrow is entirely above the weld line.





Blue Angel said:


> Just checked again, the arrows point to the first rib BELOW the weld line...


I'm in Canada.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm in Canada.


My understanding is the Vauxhall Astra is made in Europe. We have seen other strange differences between the North American Cruze and it's world wide siblings. Makes it worth a double check, but I expect the answer to be the same.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Blue Angel?
If that is what vauxaul is using as their full point then all the cars over there have stinky heaters too IMO.
You just proved to me that this is a engineering oversite.

The entire thrust of this conversation is pointing out that there isn't enouph airspace in the tank if the coolant is at that level at cold start.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

I just want to clarify this COLD / HOT debate, does it really matter if I remove coolant from my car to allow more room for expansion? Since this tank is considered an "Overflow" what harm will be done removing small amounts of coolant to show HOT levels below the line? We are talking about 1-4 ounces here, not a lot.


P.S. I understand a line is there for a reason, but sometimes thing are better off "Changed, Modified".


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

You'd be surprised. There's nearly a 16 oz difference between the top and bottom of that arrow.










Hmm, looks like mine's moved just a smidgen.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

OK, Regarding the fill point I decided on.
BTW, I'm sure our tanks are the same.

After reading this a several other threads, after purchassing ny Cruze in January (was not a member) I started paying attention to my surge tank.
At time of delivery, it was at the third line up from the bottom and I never had the oder.
I kept an eye on it, checking in the morning and then after my one hour tollway drive to the airport (I have a man cave there known as a 50x50 hanger.
I found the level would rise one full line, up to the fourth line checking upon arrival.
Seems good to me, no residue around the vent deflector.....no worries.

As I continued to read the thread and watched it grow I became more interested......And, using a flashlight (63 yr old eyes, remember) noted the arrow is at the one line below the seam line level.

Thinking now, 'How often does a service facility see a absolutely at ambient temperature cooling system?'
I wonder if these things are simply being overfilled?

So, the next morning, I filled it to the arrow (28f ambient) and installed the pressure tester.
Took a ten mile ride.....long enouph for the gauge to stabilize.
When I got back home I checked the pressure gauge......there it is, 22psi and the level is right at the weld line.
If it had the cap installed it would've vented.

Next morning, I dropped it to the second line down and repeated the road test.
Results were 18psi.......probably OK BUT i like a bit of a buffer.

Following morning, sucked it down to the third line down and repeated......17psi after the ride.

And again, dropped a line and repeated.....14psi........at this point it was clear the airspace in the tank, if filled to the arrow tip, is likely inadequate.

I decided, using past experience, this line, second from the lowest line up will be a safe 'COLD' starting point.
After 10 to 15 minutes driving, it is up to the third line from the bottom........driving to the airport and back, it is still at the third line from the bottom.

I concluded and proved the airspace theory is correct and won't be surprised this summer if it isn't about a half line higher w/ the A/C in operation.

So, my recommendation as far as level could be construed as somewhat arbitrary.......except for the pressure readings....in particular the second one which leaves little room for high ambient air/high operating temperature varience.
Again, I only went through this because of all the odor concerns.....mine was/is fine.

But, had it been filled to the arrow, we know it would've vented.....it was at 22psi.


The function of this tank is that it is a remote radiator tank and just like a radiator tank, it holds coolant and pressure.
In addition it is a by-pass, or surge tank......a place for the cooling system to continually bleed itself of any steam bubbles.
You can see this by leaving the car running and opening the hood.
The 90 degree elbo the small hose is attached to is just clear enouph to watch the flow.
This continually purges the system of any steam bubbles that may develop.

As far as the Vette mentioned.....you did not say what year it is but I will assume it has a surge tank as opposed to a coolant overflow tank.
If it is a surge, notice how much airspace it has when the cooling system is at the 'Full Cold' line.

Way more than the cruze and therefore, not as sensative to a bit of overfill.......also G.M. was kind enouph to provide a 'Full Cold mark.

Just think, had G.M. simply cast a barbed nipple with a hose leading to a low pressure area under the car it would vent to airstream and we wouldn't have anything to fret over.

Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

CruzeDFB said:


> I just want to clarify this COLD / HOT debate, does it really matter if I remove coolant from my car to allow more room for expansion? Since this tank is considered an "Overflow" what harm will be done removing small amounts of coolant to show HOT levels below the line? We are talking about 1-4 ounces here, not a lot.
> 
> 
> P.S. I understand a line is there for a reason, but sometimes thing are better off "Changed, Modified".




Not a overflow tank.....a surge tank.....two seperate animals and yes you can drop it as low as the second hash mark from the bottom and be fine.....even the third likely will be OK.

Rob


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Good insight and very helpful. The question remains - is it the pressure in the surge tank expelling vapors into the cowl intake causing the cabin smell or the HVAC box - or both? Is there a way to troubleshoot before going straight to the HVAC box R/R? Have had the tape/tube/seal job completed. PI job appeared to work to some extent until the coolant temp hit the 200s then the smell came back. Maybe removing some antifreeze to see if the smell dissipates over time?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Good insight and very helpful. The question remains - is it the pressure in the surge tank expelling vapors into the cowl intake causing the cabin smell or the HVAC box - or both? Is there a way to troubleshoot before going straight to the HVAC box R/R? Have had the tape/tube/seal job completed. PI job appeared to work to some extent until the coolant temp hit the 200s then the smell came back. Maybe removing some antifreeze to see if the smell dissipates over time?


For starters, look at jblackburns photo above......mine is one line lower first thing in the morning, before startup and is at the line in his photograph after about one hour drive time......although there is nothing other than experience to substanciate this, I believe these levels will prevent the surge tank from overpressurizing and expelling vapors from the relief port.
Although you had the modification performed, I believe, due to the poor hose fit on the nipple, that venting can leak past the junction and be drawn into the HVAC intake.

It is not, nor can it get directly into the HVAC boxes......only drawn into it.
That being said, if your coolant level is at the level I believe will be satisfactory, then the possibilities for oder become a heater core or, as someone stated, the lubricant for the heater door pivots.
That lube thing though is a stretch since the same company makes the heater boxes for all G.M. models and there does not seem to be any complaints registered.

If, however, your level is in the second to third line from the bottom and the oder prevails, I would be inclined to replace the pollen filter.
If your surge tank has been venting, the coolant vapors have accumulated in the fibers of the filter and every time damp/hunid air is drawn through it it will bring the odor back to life.

Rob


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Robby: I think the experimentation you've done is right on target. One additional question I have is this: If the coolant system gets above 20 psi, does the heater core see that pressure? If so, what is the design point for that piece? Could repeated over pressuring lead to leakage of the heater core? Opps, that was more than one question.


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

Robby said:


> That lube thing though is a stretch since the same company makes the heater boxes for all G.M. models and there does not seem to be any complaints registered.
> 
> 
> 
> Rob


Just a point of clarification, GM uses multiple HVAC sources to supply complete HVAC systems for their cars and trucks. There is not one source for all heater boxes across GM in North America.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

Is it possible once the coolant fumes have been released I to the HVAC system the grease would collect particles releasing the smell over longer periods of time just like the air filter? Pretty much once your car has done it once your stuck with it?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Silver Streak said:


> Just a point of clarification, GM uses multiple HVAC sources to supply complete HVAC systems for their cars and trucks. There is not one source for all heater boxes across GM in North America.


With apologies.....the Specifications are the same (lubricants)

Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

CruzeDFB said:


> Is it possible once the coolant fumes have been released I to the HVAC system the grease would collect particles releasing the smell over longer periods of time just like the air filter? Pretty much once your car has done it once your stuck with it?


I really, really doubt this but I am not in a position to do more than speculate.
I find it virtually impossible that a lubricant, as described in these threads, would 'pick up' a odor......I am quite sure of myself regarding the pollen filter picking up the scent though.

Rob


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Silver Streak said:


> Just a point of clarification, GM uses multiple HVAC sources to supply complete HVAC systems for their cars and trucks. There is not one source for all heater boxes across GM in North America.


IF that is the case, certainly GM could trace that. I was just talking to my neighbor about this tonight when I mentioned to him that it was thought the smell was coming from the lubricant. He asked me if the Cruze was the only GM car experiencing this. I told him that I thought so.

Does anyone know if the heater boxes for the Cruze are made by the same company for other GM models? XtremeRevolution, you were working closely with GM on this problem. Do you know what the story is?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Jim Frye said:


> Robby: I think the experimentation you've done is right on target. One additional question I have is this: If the coolant system gets above 20 psi, does the heater core see that pressure? If so, what is the design point for that piece? Could repeated over pressuring lead to leakage of the heater core? Opps, that was more than one question.


The entire cooling system is exposed to those pressures.
I am confident the heater and radiator could tolerate pressure as high as 50psi.....these are aluminum tubes that coolant runs through and the pressure would be easily handled by those small diameter tubes.
Heater core failures are generally the result of poor seam sealing at the end caps or tube (where the heater hoses attach) junction failures.
The larger hoses suffer much worse than the metal parts at high pressure.

All that being said, if the cap actually allowed pressure to exceed 20psi the most likely first failure would be the tank itself.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Rob, I did a little digging and found this Vauxhall Workshop Manual: Cooling System Draining and Filling
> 
> Vauxhall Workshop Manuals - Astra J - Cooling System Draining and Filling
> 
> ...


I just got back from my dealership. TAC offered only to apply PI-0740, which is the surge tank tube bypass. While I was there my service adviser and I looked the equivalent instructions for the Cruze (US/Canada). They are identical with one exception, the location of the "cold" fill line. This manual shows the cold line to be the first tank rib below the weld line. I marked this rib in red and with a red arrow.






I then went to the showroom floor where there was a 2013 Cruze LT sitting and opened the hood. The coolant level was just below the first rib below the tank weld. I also checked the arrow. It points to the same location. When I pick up my car tomorrow I'll check the coolant level before leaving.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Good insight and very helpful. The question remains - is it the pressure in the surge tank expelling vapors into the cowl intake causing the cabin smell or the HVAC box - or both? Is there a way to troubleshoot before going straight to the HVAC box R/R? Have had the tape/tube/seal job completed. PI job appeared to work to some extent until the coolant temp hit the 200s then the smell came back. Maybe removing some antifreeze to see if the smell dissipates over time?


I think you can tell the difference simply by noting when you smell coolant. If you smell it only when you're using the heater or defroster, I'd look first in the cabin HVAC. If you smell it at other times, I'd check for leaks and pressure relief in the engine bay. If the problem is coming from the engine bay through the cabin air intake, you'll smell it at any time, not just when using the heater.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> With apologies.....the Specifications are the same (lubricants)
> 
> Rob


Do the specifications include the specific lubricant or just the thermal and operational characteristics?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd said:


> Do the specifications include the specific lubricant or just the thermal and operational characteristics?


Nothing to prove it but I'm reasonably confident the Corporation stipulates the properties of the lubricant, regardless of which supplier builds the assembly......this is true of all vehicle manufacturers.

Rob


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> I think you can tell the difference simply by noting when you smell coolant. If you smell it only when you're using the heater or defroster, I'd look first in the cabin HVAC. If you smell it at other times, I'd check for leaks and pressure relief in the engine bay. If the problem is coming from the engine bay through the cabin air intake, you'll smell it at any time, not just when using the heater.


I do have a consistent "sweet" smell in the cabin at all times. It is faint, but noticeable. Before the PI0740 I did smell coolant vapors when my temp reached the 170s. After the job I did not notice the smell until the temp reached the 200s except for one time and that was recently. There is a foam seal under the edge of the cowl grill that apparently seals any vapors from entering through that area. Tonight, I took a flashlight and ran along the seal and found spots that my light shined through which tells me I don't have a good seal in those areas. So, I could still be picking up vapors from the engine compartment. This is a seal that is supposed to be inspected and repaired per PI0740. They did replace my cabin filter, but it appears if I am still getting engine vapors through the intake then the filter is possible contaminated or could be eventually. This is why it is difficult for me to decide if it is the surge tank or the HVAC box. I would like to rule out the surge tank issue before getting the HVAC box R/R. So, maybe lowering the coolant would be helpful in determining if it is the surge tank or not. When I did buy the car the coolant level was at the third line above the bottom hose and I topped it off to the top of the arrow. I am going to siphon what I added back out and monitor it the next few weeks to see if there is a difference. Seems to have worked for some Cruze owners.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

So as an update, I picked up my car after leaving it with the dealer for 11 buisness days.

My coolant bottle was empty and i could smell coolant if i got the car real hot and had the noisy blower motor on any speed, could reproduce the smell if I turned the heater to full cold, but it often did it while on full hot.

They didn't say anything about the smell, but found the waterpump was leaking, so they replaced that and I will try it out.

if i get the smell back I will report back!


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

1990tsi said:


> So as an update, I picked up my car after leaving it with the dealer for 11 buisness days.
> 
> My coolant bottle was empty and i could smell coolant if i got the car real hot and had the noisy blower motor on any speed, could reproduce the smell if I turned the heater to full cold, but it often did it while on full hot.
> 
> ...


Whoa!!! 11 days! That my friend is a long time, was it in for the water pump? And you still have odor with your tank empty? Have you swapped out your air cabin filter?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Just got my car back from the dealership. My coolant tank cold was at about 1/4 of the way from the second rib to the first rib below the tank weld. 10,000 miles ago it was filled to the first rib below the tank weld while the coolant was hot - it took about 5 minutes to take the cap off to avoid scalding anyone or spraying hot coolant everywhere. There was a very thin coolant/dye line at the tank vent, which I cleaned off. The red line is the Cold Full line from the online GM Maintainance guide. The green line is where my coolant currently sits with an engine temperature of ~70 F.








The


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

CruzeDFB said:


> Whoa!!! 11 days! That my friend is a long time, was it in for the water pump? And you still have odor with your tank empty? Have you swapped out your air cabin filter?


I was gone to arizona for 2 weeks so i left the car there while i was gone. I left it for 7 problems
coolant smell/low coolant - did water pump
belt noise - no fault found
clutch pedal squeak/twang - no fault found
ac compressor green and oily - no fault found (but it was cleaned up)
brake vibration - recomend machine rotors 
blower motor noisy '3rd attempt'- no fault found (i reproduced the noise when i got back today and they ordered a blower motor)
engine oil leak after spending '4' saturdays getting fixed already - tech forgot to clean up oil spill after fix

I still had coolant smell with the bottle empty, and the cabin air was replaced the first time i had the blower motor noise checked. I havn't gotten the car up to full operating temp yet but i'm going for a good drive tonight and will confirm the fix i hope.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

1990tsi said:


> I was gone to arizona for 2 weeks so i left the car there while i was gone. I left it for 7 problems
> coolant smell/low coolant - did water pump
> belt noise - no fault found
> clutch pedal squeak/twang - no fault found
> ...


So they didn't fix anything really? "No fault found" meaning they didn't find any issues.:-/


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

CruzeDFB said:


> So they didn't fix anything really? "No fault found" meaning they didn't find any issues.:-/


Does this REALLY surprise you? I swear that these dealers think we MAKE THINGS UP to make their life miserable!


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> Does this REALLY surprise you? I swear that these dealers think we MAKE THINGS UP to make their life miserable!


Well this is depressing, my main dealer is a state away... Crossing fingers I don't have any problems. I hope the coolant smell goes away on its own....


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

My dealer has been pretty good. most of my problems are intermittant, and i'm a tech at the ford dealer in town, so I understand how hard a 'no fault found' can be with a warranty issue. 

It does suck having the car in the shop that much, next saturday will be the 7th saturday in a row the car has been in the shop!


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

This has got to be the strangest problem with the Cruze model. My Cruze is from 5/2012 LTZ-RS AT and I have the coolant level cold set at the top of the arrow. I have been driving it with the heater on and no fume problems at all even my overflow vent has no coolant stains inside and my cap is looking fine.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> My dealer has been pretty good. most of my problems are intermittant, and i'm a tech at the ford dealer in town, so I understand how hard a 'no fault found' can be with a warranty issue.
> 
> It does suck having the car in the shop that much, next saturday will be the 7th saturday in a row the car has been in the shop!



I'm GLAD that someone UNDERSTANDS how aggravating it is to have these problems with a BRAND NEW CAR! If it was USED, that's another story, but NOT new!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Dropped the coolant to the third mark above the bottom hose and went for a drive. Spent about 2 hours on the road setting the temp control to various positions and running through the different ventilation positions. Results - coolant rose two marks in the surge tank after expanding when hot. Smell just as bad if not worse. My cabin really reeks of coolant. After sharing the results with my wife she informed me:

"I think it is time to consider to get rid of this car."

:iagree:

I think it is time to start looking at other options. Ugh:/


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Dropped the coolant to the third mark above the bottom hose and went for a drive. Spent about 2 hours on the road setting the temp control to various positions and running through the different ventilation positions. Results - coolant rose two marks in the surge tank after expanding when hot. Smell just as bad if not worse. My cabin really reeks of coolant. After sharing the results with my wife she informed me:
> 
> "I think it is time to consider to get rid of this car."
> 
> ...


Would something like this hurt trade in value? Iv always been curious about this when I started reading this thread.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Dropped the coolant to the third mark above the bottom hose and went for a drive. Spent about 2 hours on the road setting the temp control to various positions and running through the different ventilation positions. Results - coolant rose two marks in the surge tank after expanding when hot. Smell just as bad if not worse. My cabin really reeks of coolant. After sharing the results with my wife she informed me:
> 
> "I think it is time to consider to get rid of this car."
> 
> ...



PRAISE THE LORD! BigSkyMontana HAS SEEN THE LIGHT! GM finally wore him down! :3tens: 

Not sure what you are thinking of next, but just go drive a Buick Verano TURBO IF gas mileage is NOT a major concern because GM recommends premium fuel and the mileage is not as good as the Cruze ALTHOUGH for some strange reason, my Verano mileage is better than my Cruze mileage ever was! Just a thought. You will QUICKLY see that despite the fact it is claimed that the Verano body is the "same" as the Cruze, you will immediately see that the similarities end there! Good luck. In your case, since the smell CAN be "duplicated" AND you have had the patience of Job, GM SHOULD buy your car back! That would be the right thing to do, but......................


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Not sure regarding the trade-in value. What I do know is that my wife and I have been discussing options lately as we have been patient, but this problem is starting to be more of a family burden and an inconvenience each passing day. Fortunately, we have two vehicles and use her 2012 Honda Odyssey as the family vehicle, but it would be nice if I could take my wife and son out in the Cruze for a cruise once in a while. We have chosen to limit the use of the Cruze for only commuting back and forth to work (my job) which is a short drive due to the nature of this problem. We didn't buy this vehicle for limited use only, but as another vehicle to enjoy together. We do understand that GM apparently has the HVAC box plan in the works and this is good news. Tonight, we have decided that the Cruze is going back to our dealership on Monday until they take some time to go through the car and check other areas that may be causing the problem. We have only had the tape/tube/seal job with leak check, but the smell is so strong now that I am suspecting a possible leak somewhere. We really like the Cruze and would consider another, but something needs to break open soon. GM and my service manager have been working with us, but over time it does take a toll on the owner and their family (financially, physically, and emotionally.) The car is new with only 7600 miles on it


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd said:


> Just got my car back from the dealership. My coolant tank cold was at about 1/4 of the way from the second rib to the first rib below the tank weld. 10,000 miles ago it was filled to the first rib below the tank weld while the coolant was hot - it took about 5 minutes to take the cap off to avoid scalding anyone or spraying hot coolant everywhere. There was a very thin coolant/dye line at the tank vent, which I cleaned off. The red line is the Cold Full line from the online GM Maintainance guide. The green line is where my coolant currently sits with an engine temperature of ~70 F.
> 
> View attachment 11956
> My before startup level is one line below your green line.
> ...


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Dropped the coolant to the third mark above the bottom hose and went for a drive. Spent about 2 hours on the road setting the temp control to various positions and running through the different ventilation positions. Results - coolant rose two marks in the surge tank after expanding when hot. Smell just as bad if not worse. My cabin really reeks of coolant. After sharing the results with my wife she informed me:
> 
> "I think it is time to consider to get rid of this car."
> 
> ...


If the level rose two lines you either have a bad cap or the cap to tank seal has failed.
One line rise seems about normal for a sound cooling system.

The dealer should be able to test the cap...if it tests good, needs a bottle.....may be scratched or deformed where the ring seals in it.

Rob


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> PRAISE THE LORD! BigSkyMontana HAS SEEN THE LIGHT! GM finally wore him down! :3tens:
> 
> Not sure what you are thinking of next, but just go drive a Buick Verano TURBO IF gas mileage is NOT a major concern because GM recommends premium fuel and the mileage is not as good as the Cruze ALTHOUGH for some strange reason, my Verano mileage is better than my Cruze mileage ever was! Just a thought. You will QUICKLY see that despite the fact it is claimed that the Verano body is the "same" as the Cruze, you will immediately see that the similarities end there! Good luck. In your case, since the smell CAN be "duplicated" AND you have had the patience of Job, GM SHOULD buy your car back! That would be the right thing to do, but......................



:sigh: Car is back in the shop on Monday for further "t-r-o-u-b-l-e-s-h-o-o-t-i-n-g.:icon_scratch:


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Robby said:


> If the level rose two lines you either have a bad cap or the cap to tank seal has failed.
> One line rise seems about normal for a sound cooling system.
> 
> The dealer should be able to test the cap...if it tests good, needs a bottle.....may be scratched or deformed where the ring seals in it.
> ...


Thanks. Will let my service manager know when I take the car back on Monday.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

To all readers:
I am aware a lot of you are much younger than I and I often think, because of your youth, or in some cases being unsure of yourself, the dealer service department is not taking you seriously.

And, trust me, it really happens a lot.

You can help yourselves, in particular when given the 'No problem found' business by trying this.
1. Avoid weekend service visits........most dealers only have two or three fully trained mechanics on weekends depending on dealer size. The remaining service people are condidered apprentices and that is a nice term for 'Mechanic in training'
The full line mechanics, in the trades called Journeymen, if working on a weekend are saved for the much larger, higher paying jobs or are finishing left over work.
2. Call the service writer that wrote your service order at 2:00 P.M. No earlier and no later than 2:30.
This is when all vehicles that will be ready for pickup that evening have been reported on by the mechanics.
3. If given a 'No problem found' report tell the writer you wish to speak to the mechanic.
Most, but not all of the time, your request will be granted.
Ask the mechanic why he is unable to duplicate your concern and would he give you a suggestion on how to proceed.
The psycology of speaking directly to the mechanic is to humanize yourself......till the phone call you were a car, now you are a customer with a car.
Human nature is empathy, so when the mechanic grasps the fact you have altered your normal daily routine to get this concern resolved, you will frquently be asked, by that mechanic, some questions regarding reproducing your concern.
If you get this response, you hit a homer and the mechanic may look harder or try a different diagnostic to achieve resolution.
Also, when speaking to the mechanic....there is no sniveling or whining allowed...just the facts, nothing more.
Sniveling, whining, and yelling are the service writers area of grief.
4. Don't keep calling the dealer.....they don't want your car there any more than you don't want your car there but if you keep calling they will make sure your car, repaired or not, will go away (thorn in side theory)

I have worn every hat in the dealer service and parts depts.....now retired I still stay involved.....sick huh?
Anyways, anytime you have a question, feel free to ask.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> obermd said:
> 
> 
> > Just got my car back from the dealership. My coolant tank cold was at about 1/4 of the way from the second rib to the first rib below the tank weld. 10,000 miles ago it was filled to the first rib below the tank weld while the coolant was hot - it took about 5 minutes to take the cap off to avoid scalding anyone or spraying hot coolant everywhere. There was a very thin coolant/dye line at the tank vent, which I cleaned off. The red line is the Cold Full line from the online GM Maintainance guide. The green line is where my coolant currently sits with an engine temperature of ~70 F.
> ...


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd said:


> Robby said:
> 
> 
> > Short answer - yes.
> ...


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Robby said:


> If the level rose two lines you either have a bad cap or the cap to tank seal has failed.
> One line rise seems about normal for a sound cooling system.
> 
> The dealer should be able to test the cap...if it tests good, needs a bottle.....may be scratched or deformed where the ring seals in it.
> ...


I have noticed with the warmer weather that I have had an increase in smell (even with less usage of the heater). I do get the smell more when positioned in the defrost/under dash mode when the heater is running. Obviously, the engine coolant heats up quicker with the heater off. During colder weather I was able to tolerate the smell as it was faint (engine coolant running cooler with heater on). Today I did notice on my 2 hour drive that I even had the smell coming in with fan switch on and temp control knob to the 9:00 (cool) position. Smell, not as heavy as with the heat setting, but definitely noticeable. Would this be the engine compartment vapors coming in somewhere else? How is the air diverted in the cowl intake from cool to hot through the HVAC system? Can vapors be drawn into the HVAC ducting with temp control set either at cool or hot? Or, am I just catching a buzz and being delirious?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I have noticed with the warmer weather that I have had an increase in smell (even with less usage of the heater). I do get the smell more when positioned in the defrost/under dash mode when the heater is running. Obviously, the engine coolant heats up quicker with the heater off. During colder weather I was able to tolerate the smell as it was faint (engine coolant running cooler with heater on). Today I did notice on my 2 hour drive that I even had the smell coming in with fan switch on and temp control knob to the 9:00 (cool) position. Smell, not as heavy as with the heat setting, but definitely noticeable. Would this be the engine compartment vapors coming in somewhere else? How is the air diverted in the cowl intake from cool to hot through the HVAC system? Can vapors be drawn into the HVAC ducting with temp control set either at cool or hot? Or, am I just catching a buzz and being delirious?


Heh heh,

You are not delirious.
The odor will be drawn into the cabin regardless of temperature setting if you are not in a recirculate mode.

Rob


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

CruzeDFB said:


> Would something like this hurt trade in value? Iv always been curious about this when I started reading this thread.


If you take it to the dealership that you bought it from and they know of the issue, they will try to tank the value of it. They tried to do it to mine. I'll be getting rid of my cruze this Wed, I've had enough of this coolant issue. I'll be taking my settlement check from GM, since my attorney cut a deal with them through the lemon law case we had, and be going to buy a Toyota.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

blackcruzelt said:


> If you take it to the dealership that you bought it from and they know of the issue, they will try to tank the value of it. They tried to do it to mine. I'll be getting rid of my cruze this Wed, I've had enough of this coolant issue. I'll be taking my settlement check from GM, since my attorney cut a deal with them through the lemon law case we had, and be going to buy a Toyota.


When you are at Toyota, look into the service dept. and see if all the mechanics are sitting around having coffee and donuts.
Odds are though, they will be working on broken Toyota's.

Yep, trust me on this, man hasn't made a machine yet that won't need service and in Toyota's case you have selected the brand with the highest recall percentage on record.
Enjoy.

Rob


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Robby said:


> When you are at Toyota, look into the service dept. and see if all the mechanics are sitting around having coffee and donuts.
> Odds are though, they will be working on broken Toyota's.
> 
> Yep, trust me on this, man hasn't made a machine yet that won't need service and in Toyota's case you have selected the brand with the highest recall percentage on record.
> ...


Sure, all vehicles will have recalls at some point. In the case of Toyota, they happen to make some of the most reliable and dependable cars on the road. GM has proven with this coolant issue, and the 3 years they've had to attempt to fix it, that this is a low priority issue for them. Not saying my Toyota won't need service at some point for something, I just hope it proves to be more reliable than my Cruze. The only big issue I've seen with the Toyota's was the "sticking accelerator" that was all over the news, the majority of those turned out to be the floor mat bunching up under the pedal and causing it to stick. I'd take something silly like that any day over breathing in fumes all the time.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> Sure, all vehicles will have recalls at some point. In the case of Toyota, they happen to make some of the most reliable and dependable cars on the road. GM has proven with this coolant issue, and the 3 years they've had to attempt to fix it, that this is a low priority issue for them. Not saying my Toyota won't need service at some point for something, I just hope it proves to be more reliable than my Cruze. The only big issue I've seen with the Toyota's was the "sticking accelerator" that was all over the news, the majority of those turned out to be the floor mat bunching up under the pedal and causing it to stick. I'd take something silly like that any day over breathing in fumes all the time.


<fftopic:>
I still think there's something to the sticking accelerator. We just got notified that my wife's Solara has had the entire "throttle system" (engine control module, cruise control switch, accelerator pedal assembly, stop lamp switch, throttle body assembly) warranty extended an to 15 years or 150,000 miles from original purchase. The Solaras weren't even part of any of the recalls. The fact that Toyota has proposed this to the court makes me suspect Toyota engineering told their lawyers there may be a real issue in a small number of their cars and it's cheaper to offer this warranty extension than fight the suits in court.
</fftopic:>


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## scherf (Feb 23, 2013)

Rick Scherf GM/ESIS Claim # 750580. I have suffered my excessive inhalation of antifreeze deu to my heater core leaking. I have the dealer and medical docs to proove it. Was hospitalized for a week and off work for 7 weeks. Over $7,000.00 out of pocket in medical expenses with over $50,000 in hospital expenses. ALL DOCUMENTED. Since last October GM has offered to buy back my 2012 Cruze without paying for any medicals. I have held my ground. Two weeks ago they took the buy back offer off the table and will not return any calls. I now have legal representation, a claim with BBB and NHTSB, and a major Atlanta NEWS station films the story tomorrow. I will get my money but what my clear mission is to bring this to the public attention to instigate a world-wide recall. PLEASE CONTACT ME AT [email protected] or 678-294-9353. I am especially interested in talking to anyone from Georgia or New York. General Motors, ever watch the movie Erin Brockovich?


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

scherf said:


> Rick Scherf GM/ESIS Claim # 750580. I have suffered my excessive inhalation of antifreeze deu to my heater core leaking. I have the dealer and medical docs to proove it. Was hospitalized for a week and off work for 7 weeks. Over $7,000.00 out of pocket in medical expenses with over $50,000 in hospital expenses. ALL DOCUMENTED. Since last October GM has offered to buy back my 2012 Cruze without paying for any medicals. I have held my ground. Two weeks ago they took the buy back offer off the table and will not return any calls. I now have legal representation, a claim with BBB and NHTSB, and a major Atlanta NEWS station films the story tomorrow. I will get my money but what my clear mission is to bring this to the public attention to instigate a world-wide recall. PLEASE CONTACT ME AT [email protected] or 678-294-9353. I am especially interested in talking to anyone from Georgia or New York. General Motors, ever watch the movie Erin Brockovich?


I saw that you posted this on the chevy cruze facebook page and hoped you would eventually find this site and post it here as well! It's really unfortunate that you are going through this and I hope you can help other cruze owners avoid what you are going through. Hopefully your story will be the main thing that finally pushes Chevy to fix this problem for good and compensate all cruze owners who have this problem in any form or fashion!! KEEP US POSTED!!


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

This has now become a major Headache for GM and the Cruze name. With Water Pumps to heat cores leaking to fumes inside cars as many more public eyes see this many new to be car owners will stay away from the Cruze for a very long time. GM may have to even do a name change to save it all later on. We were having our morning Coffee today at DD and a couple came up to us and asked if our Red Cruze that they saw us come out off have the same fume coolant problems. We mentioned that for now all is well but we did have that smell at first when we bought the car. However we said that it seems there are many of them out there that are having this problem now even with the 2013 models and buying one now may be a 50/50 chance who knows. This problem will come to a major head with GM and they will loose tons of $$$$ trying to make all well again. This problem may also affect trade in values over time since customers will shy away from the Cruze as there next used car.


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

May affect trade in ??? 

GM offered me a trade assist deal, good only at my selling/servicing dealer. Have the car appraised for trade and GM and the dealer will talk. Didn't even make it that far. Dealer told me they do not want it in trade. They said, "why would I sell a car GM can't fix to one of my customers."

No one should work with GM on this problem on their own. There are many laws out there, both State and Federal that can help. Also, Kimmel and Silverman will review your case for free and represent for free (fee shifting). 1-800-LEMONLAW

You are going to have to fight to get what you deserve.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

I tell you what, I was willing to overlook the flaws the Cruze has that bother me and was going to buy the 2014 Model. Now I have no intention of buying one. This is coming from a guy with over $3,000 of GM Card Points burning a hole in his wallet.
You can imagine what a non-GM customer is thinking. No F'ing Way is what they're thinking.
This company is so mismanaged it's sickening


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

scherf said:


> Rick Scherf GM/ESIS Claim # 750580. I have suffered my excessive inhalation of antifreeze deu to my heater core leaking. I have the dealer and medical docs to proove it. Was hospitalized for a week and off work for 7 weeks. Over $7,000.00 out of pocket in medical expenses with over $50,000 in hospital expenses. ALL DOCUMENTED. Since last October GM has offered to buy back my 2012 Cruze without paying for any medicals. I have held my ground. Two weeks ago they took the buy back offer off the table and will not return any calls. I now have legal representation, a claim with BBB and NHTSB, and a major Atlanta NEWS station films the story tomorrow. I will get my money but what my clear mission is to bring this to the public attention to instigate a world-wide recall. PLEASE CONTACT ME AT [email protected] or 678-294-9353. I am especially interested in talking to anyone from Georgia or New York. General Motors, ever watch the movie Erin Brockovich?



:3tens:GOOD FOR YOU! I hope this does WAKE UP GM! I hope there is a class action suit to tell GM that people are fed up and have better things to do than take off from work to bring their cars in for service week after week, month after month. I love the people here poo-pooing the health concerns of breathing in those fumes. I'll be cheering for you from CT! I got rid of my 2011 Cruze LTZ RS on 1/31/13 because of the transmission shifting and lack of acceleration that a GM engineer labeled as "operating as designed"! What BS! The fact that this smell has been happening since 2011, certainly does tell me that this is NOT a priority for GM!

Can you tell us what Atlanta TV station will be doing the story so we can follow it on line? Good luck. Hang in there. Hope you're feeling better!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

steve333 said:


> I tell you what, I was willing to overlook the flaws the Cruze has that bother me and was going to buy the 2014 Model. Now I have no intention of buying one. This is coming from a guy with over $3,000 of GM Card Points burning a hole in his wallet.
> You can imagine what a non-GM customer is thinking. No F'ing Way is what they're thinking.
> This company is so mismanaged it's sickening


It ALL starts at the TOP! I don't know WHY the Board of Directors is not trying to replace CEO Akerson!


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

I took a 200km highway drive last night with my new waterpump, 80kms into the drive i turned the blower motor on and got a huge stink of dex-cool. hot or cold didn't matter but the blower had to be on to make the smell. 

when I take it in next weekend for the blower motor i can bet they'll say it's residue from the waterpump replacement and i'll be back the next weekend again!

I wonder how the buyback program works here in canada. i'm sick of this car


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

At this rate with *GM* once again out-sourcing many more U.S.A jobs once again to Korea since they feel the American workers are no longer needed to make parts that will now become cheaper for the Cruze and will have more cheap parts fail again perhaps the New Cruze will have its name changed back to the 
*Daewoo* and we will see what sells.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

Starks8 said:


> I saw that you posted this on the chevy cruze facebook page and hoped you would eventually find this site and post it here as well! It's really unfortunate that you are going through this and I hope you can help other cruze owners avoid what you are going through. Hopefully your story will be the main thing that finally pushes Chevy to fix this problem for good and compensate all cruze owners who have this problem in any form or fashion!! KEEP US POSTED!!


About time this gets national attention. Good luck to you. My Cruze was repurchased because of this issue. I still have all the service documentation and pics of the repairs they tried. If you need anything let me know. I don't know about the resell value but I do know the Cruze is more money to insure. I went from a 2012 $21,000 Cruze LT to a 2013 $25,000 Dodge Dart limited and my insurance went down - does not make sense. I figured the Cruze recall regarding the possible fires makes it more to insure.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

upstater said:


> May affect trade in ???
> 
> GM offered me a trade assist deal, good only at my selling/servicing dealer. Have the car appraised for trade and GM and the dealer will talk. Didn't even make it that far. Dealer told me they do not want it in trade. They said, "why would I sell a car GM can't fix to one of my customers."
> 
> ...


Interesting how GM didn't care about shipping my car 2 states over to sell to some unsuspecting person even though they couldn't fix my car.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> Interesting how GM didn't care about shipping my car 2 states over to sell to some unsuspecting person even though they couldn't fix my car.


GM didn't do much with your old Cruze. The dealer you turned it in to likely just picked up the phone, called a wholesaler (aka auction dealer) buddy of his, sold it for peanuts, and it was on it's way to the nearest auction within the week. One of the easiest automotive transactions in the business. GM was done with your old car by the time the ink was dry on your new car's paperwork.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> GM didn't do much with your old Cruze. The dealer you turned it in to likely just picked up the phone, called a wholesaler (aka auction dealer) buddy of his, sold it for peanuts, and it was on it's way to the nearest auction within the week. One of the easiest automotive transactions in the business. GM was done with your old car by the time the ink was dry on your new car's paperwork.


GM repurchased the car,they were the buyer, not the dealer. I have the paperwork and a copy of the check to prove it. It was from GM to myself, not the dealer. GM does not involve the dealer in repurchases anymore, that was taken away from the dealers after they abused the program- it is arranged directly through General Motors. I had to sign a purchase agreement between myself and GM. If the dealer did what you said it was with GM knowing it was done. They sold a car that is supposed to be titled as a repurchase to an auction knowing it was not fixed.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> They sold a car that is supposed to be titled as a repurchase to an auction knowing it was not fixed.


I buy that, but once it hits "auctionland" all bets are off. It may have been sold as a repurchase by GM, but once it left their ownership, they were done with it. I'd bet lunch that it was loaded on a truck where ever you dropped it off and shipped to the wholesaler that bought it from GM. It could have ended up on a J. D. Byrider lot or some independent used car lot as easily as it ended up on a GM lot.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

LOL- it ended up at a Buick dealer near Chicago. I googled my vin # and there it was.


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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

Bohdan said:


> At this rate with *GM* once again out-sourcing many more U.S.A jobs once again to Korea since they feel the American workers are no longer needed to make parts that will now become cheaper for the Cruze and will have more cheap parts fail again perhaps the New Cruze will have its name changed back to the
> *Daewoo* and we will see what sells.


Um, the water pumps that were failing were made in Germany (where labor is even more expensive than it is here in the US), not Korea. I haven't looked at one yet, but I'd be willing to bet that the HVAC boxes with the dex-cool scented grease are made in the US, or at least Canada or Mexico for US cars since shipping big empty plastic boxes from overseas would be a waste of $$$. Same with the coolant tank. Other than the water pumps and the glycol grease, I suspect this is an engineering problem, which could have been made by engineers anywhere, and whether the cars are built by the best workers you can hire, or trained chimps, the problem will still be there.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

So just to get this right, if the dealer tries to fix the coolant issue 4 times would this be considered LEMON LAW? 

OR does it need to get fixed, go away and come back 4 times to be considered LEMON LAW?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

CruzeDFB said:


> So just to get this right, if the dealer tries to fix the coolant issue 4 times would this be considered LEMON LAW?
> 
> OR does it need to get fixed, go away and come back 4 times to be considered LEMON LAW?



Check the Lemon Law for your state, but YES 3 or 4 times for the same problem will qualify for Lemon Law especially because of the health hazard!

http://www.sueschauls.com/DEX_Cool_MSDS.pdf


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> Check the Lemon Law for your state, but YES 3 or 4 times for the same problem will qualify for Lemon Law especially because of the health hazard!
> 
> http://www.sueschauls.com/DEX_Cool_MSDS.pdf


Interesting, looks like the dealer will get 4 tries to fix it in my state if read correctly.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Been away from a computer all weekend...



Robby said:


> The entire thrust of this conversation is pointing out that there isn't enouph airspace in the tank if the coolant is at that level at cold start.


Agreed.



Robby said:


> ...I filled it to the arrow (28f ambient)… ...22psi and the level is right at the weld line. If it had the cap installed it would've vented.
> Next morning, I dropped it to the second line down… ...18psi.......probably OK BUT i like a bit of a buffer.
> Following morning, sucked it down to the third line down and repeated......17psi after the ride.
> And again, dropped a line and repeated.....14psi........at this point it was clear the airspace in the tank, if filled to the arrow tip, is likely inadequate.
> ...


Very cool! This is pretty much what I would do if I had access to a cooling system pressure tester! What make and model of pressure tester are you using? Does it come with different adapters to replace different styles of cap?



Robby said:


> As far as the Vette mentioned.....you did not say what year it is but I will assume it has a surge tank as opposed to a coolant overflow tank.
> If it is a surge, notice how much airspace it has when the cooling system is at the 'Full Cold' line.


It's a 2002, and yes it is a surge tank, plumbed in very similar fashion to the Cruze. I would have to check the volume of air, but you are probably right; I bet there is a larger volume of air in that car's surge tank. I would expect that for two reasons, first being the relative size (volume) of the Corvette's cooling system (proportional increase), and second would be the higher designed operating pressure of the Cruze system (~5 psi based on pressure caps). From what I've read, the Cruze routinely reaches temps above 230F, wheras the Corvette fan-on temp is set to 226F. The Cruze also cools a turbocharger and oil cooler with post ECT sensor coolant, both of which increase the amount of vapor generated in the system.



Robby said:


> Just think, had G.M. simply cast a barbed nipple with a hose leading to a low pressure area under the car it would vent to airstream and we wouldn't have anything to fret over.


You are probably right, but as with everything else it would add cost. If it weren't for the HVAC lube issue this would likely not even be on GM's radar as the only people likely to complain would be those who park in a residential garage confining the smell.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> While I was there my service adviser and I looked the equivalent instructions for the Cruze (US/Canada). They are identical with one exception, the location of the "cold" fill line. This manual shows the cold line to be the first tank rib below the weld line. I marked this rib in red and with a red arrow.
> View attachment 11939


Just to clarify, my Canadian Cruze has the arrow indicating the same cold fill line as the US car, the first line below the weld line.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Yesterday after I reinflated my tires to 45 PSI (dealership had dropped them to 35 when they did the oil change on Friday) I took a closer look at the surge tank. The tank actually looks like it's designed to have a secondary vent hose installed - the vent cover pops right off the side of the tank. While I had it off I cleaned off all the coolant residue from the vent channel and the vent cover so I will easily be able to tell if I'm still venting coolant. My coolant residue is florescent orange since I had the leak test dye put in 10K miles ago, making it really easy to see. Now I wait and monitor. I'll also see if I can get my HVAC system de-molded to eliminate the dirty sock smell, which is 90% of my odor.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> I still had coolant smell with the bottle empty...


Can you elaborate on this? Is your surge tank completely empty? If so, how did it get this way and does the dealer know about it?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Bohdan said:


> At this rate with *GM* once again out-sourcing many more U.S.A jobs once again to Korea since they feel the American workers are no longer needed to make parts that will now become cheaper for the Cruze and will have more cheap parts fail again perhaps the New Cruze will have its name changed back to the
> *Daewoo* and we will see what sells.


Your comment leads me to believe you are very ignorant of the way the automotive world works... hopefully nobody reads this and thinks they have learned something.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

obermd said:


> Yesterday after I reinflated my tires to 45 PSI (dealership had dropped them to 35 when they did the oil change on Friday) I took a closer look at the surge tank. The tank actually looks like it's designed to have a secondary vent hose installed - the vent cover pops right off the side of the tank. While I had it off I cleaned off all the coolant residue from the vent channel and the vent cover so I will easily be able to tell if I'm still venting coolant. My coolant residue is florescent orange since I had the leak test dye put in 10K miles ago, making it really easy to see. Now I wait and monitor. I'll also see if I can get my HVAC system de-molded to eliminate the dirty sock smell, which is 90% of my odor.


Why do you put so much air in your tires? I can see going a little over the door jam numbers (I put in 32 instead of 30) but that is way too high, IMO


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

steve333 said:


> Why do you put so much air in your tires? I can see going a little over the door jam numbers (I put in 32 instead of 30) but that is way too high, IMO


obermd has a Cruze Eco,
These are delivered with low rolling resistance tires cold rated up to 51 psi.
The doorpost pressure is 35psi......this for best ride/wear qualities.
Higher pressures decrease ride quality a bit in exchange for even better tread life and lower rolling resistance, with the least rolling resistance at 51psi.

Most of the eco gang, myself included, have found 45psi cold to be acceptable from a ride standpoint with a very measurable increase in mileage.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

steve333 said:


> Why do you put so much air in your tires? I can see going a little over the door jam numbers (I put in 32 instead of 30) but that is way too high, IMO


Because I prefer the way it handles at 45 PSI. I also like the extra MPG I get from lower rolling resistance.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Can you elaborate on this? Is your surge tank completely empty? If so, how did it get this way and does the dealer know about it?


my tank was as close to empty as it could get. a few mms of coolant in the very bottom of the bottle. I left the car with the dealer for 10 work days and they replaced the water pump and thermostat housing. when i got the car back i took it on a 200km drive and i still have the coolant smell.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

1990tsi said:


> my tank was as close to empty as it could get. a few mms of coolant in the very bottom of the bottle. I left the car with the dealer for 10 work days and they replaced the water pump and thermostat housing. when i got the car back i took it on a 200km drive and i still have the coolant smell.


While your car is stopped and the engine off, sniff around the throttle pedal and also the HVAC vents. I wouldn't be surprised if you discover a lingering odor source by doing this. One of the problems with this issue is that even after the source of the smell is corrected is that odors easily embed themselves in fabrics and other porous materials. Also, did your dealership change your cabin air filter when they did the repairs? Air filters are a great source of lingering odors.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

obermd said:


> While your car is stopped and the engine off, sniff around the throttle pedal and also the HVAC vents. I wouldn't be surprised if you discover a lingering odor source by doing this. One of the problems with this issue is that even after the source of the smell is corrected is that odors easily embed themselves in fabrics and other porous materials. Also, did your dealership change your cabin air filter when they did the repairs? Air filters are a great source of lingering odors.


It almost seems like, once it starts you will never get rid of it even after being fixed.


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## Tkchumly (Jan 21, 2013)

obermd said:


> Because I prefer the way it handles at 45 PSI. I also like the extra MPG I get from lower rolling resistance.


You know that your tires are going to wear faster on the inside right? They are designed to be at the correct pressure, not just whatever you like better. If they are under inflated the edges wear faster and over inflated will make the inside wear faster. Food for thought.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> my tank was as close to empty as it could get. a few mms of coolant in the very bottom of the bottle. I left the car with the dealer for 10 work days and they replaced the water pump and thermostat housing. when i got the car back i took it on a 200km drive and i still have the coolant smell.


When you got the car back, how much coolant was in the surge tank? When it's cold is it filled to the first rib where the arrow is pointing, or below that? Many people are discovering that their surge tanks stop venting if they lower the coolant level in the surge tank. See discussion above.

However, if you had the coolant smell issue before with less coolant in the tank your problem may be with the lube in teh HVAC system.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Tkchumly said:


> You know that your tires are going to wear faster on the inside right? They are designed to be at the correct pressure, not just whatever you like better. If they are under inflated the edges wear faster and over inflated will make the inside wear faster. Food for thought.


Please find one of the threads on tire pressure for your answer to this question.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Tkchumly said:


> You know that your tires are going to wear faster on the inside right? They are designed to be at the correct pressure, not just whatever you like better. If they are under inflated the edges wear faster and over inflated will make the inside wear faster. Food for thought.


Generally speaking, tire wear is reduced by over inflating. True, when the tire does eventually wear out the center may show accelerated wear, but this will likely happen after far more miles have been driven then if the tire had been used throughout its life at the suggested pressures.

The more pressure in the tire, the less tire deformation as it rolls under the car's weight, therefore less heat is generated in the tire. Less heat generated means a longer lasting tire, less wasted energy and better fuel economy.

The main negatives revolve around reduced traction and ride quality. *This has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere and is off topic in this thread.*

Moving along...


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

CruzeDFB said:


> It almost seems like, once it starts you will never get rid of it even after being fixed.


Once fixed, you need to get a good interior cleaning of your car. Without it the smell will dissipate over time, but just not overnight.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

CruzeDFB said:


> It almost seems like, once it starts you will never get rid of it even after being fixed.


Unfortunately, this is my case. I now have the smell at all times. I spoke with my service manager yesterday informing him that it is time for them to have the car back and keep it until something is figured out (or at least checked everything possible). Initially, I was hesitant about them taking anything apart, but it is to the point that something has to happen as the smell is not going away. My car is going in on Wednesday and they are going to start through it with another pressure check (including the pressure cap) and looking for leaks around the heater core, water pump and whatever could contribute to the problem. I do know I have gaps between the foam seal attached the the lower cowl grille and if any vapors are being released in the engine compartment they are possibly coming through the cowl intake. This will be looked at again as this seal is supposed to be repaired or replaced during the PI0740. They are going to try to 'rule-out" any other possibility before the HVAC PI is released as we know the box may be the culprit. I do email my service manager with my concerns and frustrations and he forwards my emails to the district rep who is in Detroit at this time for something. So, I know that the district rep is in the loop and understands my frustrations and that my patience is starting to run thin as now the smell is now living in the cabin and not going away. I tried to wait it out until the replacement HVAC box arrived, but not happening with the smell "hanging-out" in the cabin now. I also called my GM rep at customer service and asked them not to contact me until they have an answer to help me. I do appreciate the calls weekly (checking-in), but all they are doing is communicating with my service manager and I can do that on my own. I am not trying to be pessimistic here, just hoping that something surfaces soon not only to help me but everyone who is dealing with this problem. I am hoping that they do find a problem with the heater core, water pump, or something that may be the problem or part of the problem on my car. At least, if they found something I would welcome the news having some hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

obermd said:


> Once fixed, you need to get a good interior cleaning of your car. Without it the smell will dissipate over time, but just not overnight.





BigSkyMontana said:


> Unfortunately, this is my case. I now have the smell at all times. I spoke with my service manager yesterday informing him that it is time for them to have the car back and keep it until something is figured out (or at least checked everything possible). Initially, I was hesitant about them taking anything apart, but it is to the point that something has to happen as the smell is not going away. My car is going in on Wednesday and they are going to start through it with another pressure check (including the pressure cap) and looking for leaks around the heater core, water pump and whatever could contribute to the problem. I do know I have gaps between the foam seal attached the the lower cowl grille and if any vapors are being released in the engine compartment they are possibly coming through the cowl intake. This will be looked at again as this seal is supposed to be repaired or replaced during the PI0740. They are going to try to 'rule-out" any other possibility before the HVAC PI is released as we know the box may be the culprit. I do email my service manager with my concerns and frustrations and he forwards my emails to the district rep who is in Detroit at this time for something. So, I know that the district rep is in the loop and understands my frustrations and that my patience is starting to run thin as now the smell is now living in the cabin and not going away. I tried to wait it out until the replacement HVAC box arrived, but not happening with the smell "hanging-out" in the cabin now. I also called my GM rep at customer service and asked them not to contact me until they have an answer to help me. I do appreciate the calls weekly (checking-in), but all they are doing is communicating with my service manager and I can do that on my own. I am not trying to be pessimistic here, just hoping that something surfaces soon not only to help me but everyone who is dealing with this problem. I am hoping that they do find a problem with the heater core, water pump, or something that may be the problem or part of the problem on my car. At least, if they found something I would welcome the news having some hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.



Would GM cover a cleaning of the carpet and seats or would the be out of pocket costs for us?


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

"the smell "hanging-out" in the cabin now."

And the haze on the windshield, the cabin filter contaminated and no HVAC boxes to "fix it".

Once again, do not put yourself through this torture. You can go roundy round with GM and get nowhere.

Then get a lawyer and find out GM has a minimum of 60 days (check your stste's rules) to respond. Then the negotiations start all over. Legally go for the jugular. The worst that happens is GM actually starts paying attention to you and others similarly affected.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

CruzeDFB said:


> Would GM cover a cleaning of the carpet and seats or would the be out of pocket costs for us?


Knowing my service manager he would do the job without charging me. It is really helpful when you have a service department that is willing to work with you. My service manager has done everything I have requested in trying to help me work through this issue. There are many Cruzes that don't have this problem and if yours doesn't that is a blessing. As far as this thread and forum there are a lot of Cruze owners who have a lot of experience and knowledge they post which is helpful and a great place to search for some guidance and answers. Its a GM issue, not a dealership issue. I suggest you get to know your service manager if you have any concerns as I think most dealerships do want to provide quality service to their customers. We just have to hold GM accountable in this case and I am thinking they know they are in the spotlight at the moment.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

upstater said:


> "the smell "hanging-out" in the cabin now."
> 
> And the haze on the windshield, the cabin filter contaminated and no HVAC boxes to "fix it".
> 
> ...


fftopic: Sure, I could get lawyers, the BBB and someone to handle this for me other then GM. This may be a sure way to get out of this problem and would likely work if I chose that route. I would rather have GM be accountable to me and show that they are willing to take care of their customers without the "third party" interference/support. If GM is not able to manage/handle this issue without lawyers, the BBB or other outside support then it clearly paints a picture of GM and their commitment to customer relationships. The question is: "Does GM value customer relationships and honor their commitment to the customer within the GM mission or do they need lawyers, BBB and other legal assistance to manage customer satisfaction?" Back to the smell issue.......


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

What a shame that this is happening. It really is inexcusable for this to be going on 3 years now without a fix.
Between this and the Malibu fiasco I really don't have much faith that GM is going to remain near the top in sales without a new CEO and a completely new mind think at the company. However, with the current BOD I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Horribly mismanaged company.


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## amjtech (Mar 19, 2013)

Add another to the list with antifreeze smell under the hood... Just bought a 2012 Cruze 1LT from Hertz Car Sales and noticed the antifreeze smell under the hood the other day.. I drive the car fairly hard so I figured it was the overflow.. but now thanks to the forum I know to keep an eye on it.. I'm at work and dont have time to read the full thread but I will tonight... Just makes me nervous about the fact that I live in Las Vegas and I know now for a fact I'll have to keep an eye on the antifreeze... Overheating is why I bought a new car, my old van overheats out here when you run the AC and its 115+ I just hope it doesn't get much worse this summer.


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

"Knowing my service manager he would do the job without charging me."

Some do not seem to grasp the totality of this problem.

Just curious if your service manager will scrub the glycol out of your lungs too.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

amjtech said:


> Add another to the list with antifreeze smell under the hood... Just bought a 2012 Cruze 1LT from Hertz Car Sales and noticed the antifreeze smell under the hood the other day.. I drive the car fairly hard so I figured it was the overflow.. but now thanks to the forum I know to keep an eye on it.. I'm at work and dont have time to read the full thread but I will tonight... Just makes me nervous about the fact that I live in Las Vegas and I know now for a fact I'll have to keep an eye on the antifreeze... Overheating is why I bought a new car, my old van overheats out here when you run the AC and its 115+ I just hope it doesn't get much worse this summer.


What is your cold anti-freeze level. It's starting to appear the GM fill guide is putting too much anti-freeze in the system. Also, take a look at your surge tank near the cap. Do you see anti-freeze on the outside of the tank? If so, this is an indication of pressures above 20 PSI and venting.


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## jimstrick (Mar 19, 2013)

I am a reporter in Atlanta looking for a Georgian who has pictures or the actual failed heater coil from his/her Cruze. If you are experiencing the smell I'd also like to see your car. Please email [email protected]. Thanks.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Keep in mind that this issue is affecting just a small number of Cruzes out there. Many more do not have a single antifreeze-related issue, even as the miles are piling on.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

I wonder if it's affecting everyone in really cold climes but hardly anyone in warmer areas?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Geographic location doesn't seem to be a issue.

Starting to look more 'induced by a mistep in labeling'

Note, Sonics use same engine, surge tank on radiator core support, much higher surge tank roof, same 20 psi max pressure rating.......I'm either blind or a poor surfer, each being possible, but I'm not seeing any coolant concerns, relative to Sonic's......yet.

Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

jimstrick said:


> I am a reporter in Atlanta looking for a Georgian who has pictures or the actual failed heater coil from his/her Cruze. If you are experiencing the smell I'd also like to see your car. Please email [email protected]. Thanks.


Move along, move along.....much too soon for rabbelrousing........go find a Toyota to write about.

Rob


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

steve333 said:


> I wonder if it's affecting everyone in really cold climes but hardly anyone in warmer areas?


I think it possibly has many variables such as engine coolant temp, outside temp, temp control position and fan speed. At least that is what I think I have experienced to some degree as consistency was difficult to measure as these variables change all the time. Not sure about altitude. Don't think that would be a variable, but anything is possible I guess.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jimstrick said:


> I am a reporter in Atlanta looking for a Georgian who has pictures or the actual failed heater coil from his/her Cruze. If you are experiencing the smell I'd also like to see your car. Please email [email protected]. Thanks.


Out of curiosity, why are you looking for information regarding a failed heater core? The number of failed heater cores is very, very minimal. The vast majority of these complaints stem from the lubricant used in the HVAC box. 

A picture wouldn't really show you a whole lot anyway. Maybe a bit of discoloration where a leak occurred, but nothing past that.


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## Bohdan (Apr 28, 2012)

Robby said:


> Geographic location doesn't seem to be a issue.
> 
> Starting to look more 'induced by a mistep in labeling'
> 
> ...


I like how the Sonic has its tank in front and how the side vent is located with its lower area. GM thought ahead about the Cruze vent problem and made a better side vent for the Sonic.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I think it possibly has many variables such as engine coolant temp, outside temp, temp control position and fan speed. At least that is what I think I have experienced to some degree as consistency was difficult to measure as these variables change all the time. Not sure about altitude. Don't think that would be a variable, but anything is possible I guess.


Altitude can effect the absolute pressure in the surge tank before the cap vents. The cap is rated 20 PSI above ambient air pressure, which means at sea level the internal pressure of the surge tank can be 34.7 PSI before the cap will vent, but in Denver it can only be around 32 PSI before it will vent. On the flip side the internal rest pressure of the surge tank at altitude is reduced by the same amount as the overall air pressure. Where there will be a difference, especially if you drive over a pass, is when the internal tank engine cold pressure is higher than the outside air pressure. For example, I live at 12 PSI (5700 ft) and the Eisenhower Tunnel is at slightly less than 10 PSI (11,600 ft). If I drive from Denver to Breckenridge I lose 2 PSI of external pressure, reducing the absolute cap PSI from 32 to 30. This makes the cap a 18 PSI cap for the parts of this drive. If I my engine hot pressure is 19 PSI in the tank at home I would end up venting coolant vapors from the surge tank. Air pressure info from Air Pressure and Altitude above Sea Level.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Bohdan said:


> I like how the Sonic has its tank in front and how the side vent is located with its lower area. GM thought ahead about the Cruze vent problem and made a better side vent for the Sonic.
> 
> 
> View attachment 12029


Although we agree on the design, regardless of how the vent tube is configured, the real issue is it should never vent unless there is a true overheat condition.
Pay particular attention to how much more airspace above the coolant, this taller tank roof provides.
I contend the lesser airspace (appears smaller tank volume as well) of the Cruze design (if using the cast arrow for coolant level) creates the situation of reaching the 20 psi threshold forcing the cap to vent........bit more airspace, lower surge tank pressure.

Thanks for the picture,
Rob


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I understand that the lube in the HVAC box is where GM is targeting as the culprit regarding the smell issue. I am not ruling out that this may be the problem with my vehicle as it is uncertain until they get into this area and perform the maintenance. But, I would like to rule out the surge tank issue (before the HVAC box maintenance) as I know that I still have gaps (foam seal attached to the bottom of the cowl grille) that the vapors can get sucked into the air intake. I did not discover these gaps until I took a light source and ran along the foam seal. These gaps are located directly above the surge tank. It is difficult to see these gaps by sight or touch. I do think that the reason I now have the constant smell in the cabin is from an extended period of running the heater this winter and vapors being drawn through the ducting and filter issue. Now if I did have a lube issue with the box, then it just exasperates the problem. I want to confirm that I am sealing the engine compartment as the PI0740 is apparently designed to do before doing the box R/R. My understanding is that it will take time for the cabin to air out after the problem is resolved. For anyone else who has had the tape/tube/seal completed - have you checked the foam seal also under the cowl grille with a light source for gaps? The pic I posted on post 363 identifies where my gaps are located. I am just trying to narrow this down if all possible before moving to another step in troubleshooting. Looking at the Sonic surge tank layout it appears that there are not any problems reported so far. I wonder what lube they used in the Sonic HVAC box? obermd - thanks for the altitude info.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

BigSkyMontana,

The tank is not supposed to vent.....ever.....unless there is a overheat condition causing the coolant to compress the air in the tank to and beyond 20psi. 

It should not matter if there is any seal of any sort in the hood to firewall interface.......if the tank doesn't vent, there is nothing to smell.

Please drop the coolant level as we keep discussing to the second line up from the bottom of your surge tank when cold.
If you have done this already, and the odor continues then replace the radiator cap and please keep updating.

Lastly, are you certain it is coolant you are smelling or is it possible you are getting a odor and assuming it to be the odor of coolant?

I mention this only because obermd has reported a odor that sometimes reminded him of dirty socks or old gym shoe.

That is a common complaint that comes up and is a sign of mold growing on the A/C evaporator core......there is a treatment for this and all manufacturers have been bitten by this bug over the years.

Thanks,
Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd,

I believe you are applying a pressure differental thought process to a sealed system........DNA.
Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> obermd,
> 
> I believe you are applying a pressure differental thought process to a sealed system........DNA.
> Rob


Yes, but since the ground state of the outside air pressure drops as you climb, the cap cannot hold as much inside. This same drop in air pressure will sometimes cause a sealed bag of potato chips purchased in Denver to split open at the seams when driving in Colorado's mountains. As long as you don't have dramatic changes in altitude (actually air pressure) the cap's 20 PSI rating is stable. Opening and then closing the coolant cap in New York City sets the tank's internal pressure to 14.7 PSI, which is the ambient air pressure. Driving to Vail, CO drops the ambient air pressure to about 10.3 PSI with two short drops to 10 PSI. As a result, the internal pressure on the cap is 4.4 (Vail) to 4.7 (Eisenhower Tunnel and Vail Pass) PSI higher than the pressure outside the cap, effectively reducing the cap's pressure holding capability by the same amount. Denver is about halfway in the pressure drop from sea level to Vail.

As you have stated previously, the coolant system is sealed as long as the system pressure is below 20 PSI. The question is, 20 PSI relative to what? In this case, the 20 PSI can only be relative to the ambient air pressure since that's what's on the other side of the cap via the vent channel.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd said:


> Yes, but since the ground state of the outside air pressure drops as you climb, the cap cannot hold as much inside. This same drop in air pressure will sometimes cause a sealed bag of potato chips purchased in Denver to split open at the seams when driving in Colorado's mountains. As long as you don't have dramatic changes in altitude (actually air pressure) the cap's 20 PSI rating is stable. Opening and then closing the coolant cap in New York City sets the tank's internal pressure to 14.7 PSI, which is the ambient air pressure. Driving to Vail, CO drops the ambient air pressure to about 10.3 PSI with two short drops to 10 PSI. As a result, the internal pressure on the cap is 4.4 (Vail) to 4.7 (Eisenhower Tunnel and Vail Pass) PSI higher than the pressure outside the cap, effectively reducing the cap's pressure holding capability by the same amount. Denver is about halfway in the pressure drop from sea level to Vail.
> 
> As you have stated previously, the coolant system is sealed as long as the system pressure is below 20 PSI. The question is, 20 PSI relative to what? In this case, the 20 PSI can only be relative to the ambient air pressure since that's what's on the other side of the cap via the vent channel.


Sorry my last post was so short.......I'm on 4 forums at the same time tonite.

Start with the potato chips......If the bag is in a box that is sealed at my home in N.E. Illinois at 850 feet and I drove to your place at 5000 feet, what will happen to the bag of chips in the sealed box?

If I leave my home at 850 ft and my sealed tank air pressure rises to 16psi, what will the pressure be at your front door at 5000 ft?
It'll still be 16 psi because the spring, that is keeping the cap sealed, was not told it is at 5000 ft nor does it care what the ambient air pressure is at that moment or any other moment, and all the coolant below that 16 psi airspring knows is it's at X degrees.

If I utilize your conclusion, every car and truck and anything else with a pressure dependent system of any sort would be blowing its contents out of whatever escape route it can find......all because the pressure acting on the outside of the vessel is less.

So, am I missing some simple physics here or is it possible you may be overthinking this subject.

However, I do think you should not use ambient air pressure added or subtracted to a pressure vessel.......using the current thought, I wouldn't walk down the soda/beer isle......lot of hand grenades staked up.

Please overlook my attempts at levity......lotta stuff I write is tounge in cheek.

Whatchathink?
Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd,

Additional thought if I may........think tire pressure.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jimstrick said:


> I am a reporter... ...looking for... ...pictures or the actual failed heater coil from his/her Cruze. If you are experiencing the smell I'd also like to see your car.


Your post indicates you do not understand the issue. Don't go making a mountain out of a mole hill... there are hundreds of thousands of satisfied Cruze owners on this continent alone, coolant smell issues affect a very small number of vehicles.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I think this smell issue is a lot more complex than the air space in the Cruze surge tank. If that were it, there would be a PI or TSB broadcast to the world directing everyone to lower the fluid level in the tank. The March Techlink is out and there still is nothing about this issue in it.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> When you got the car back, how much coolant was in the surge tank? When it's cold is it filled to the first rib where the arrow is pointing, or below that? Many people are discovering that their surge tanks stop venting if they lower the coolant level in the surge tank. See discussion above.
> 
> However, if you had the coolant smell issue before with less coolant in the tank your problem may be with the lube in teh HVAC system.



mine was filled to the line below the one with the arrow cold. 3rd rib down I think. when it's hot it sits just below the arrow line. not much change really from full cold to full hot.

I had the smell when the bottle was pretty much empty as well. I took it in tonight and the service guy wanted me to drive with the head tech, and we re-created the problem right away, once we drove hard up a hill with load, then a full 1-2-3 gear acceleration with the blower on.

he also found the car is still leaking oil after 5 visits  said they have to call the tech hotline (or whatever GM calls it) about the leak and the smell.

so i'm driving an automatic base model 1.8 until they fix it


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Jim Frye said:


> I think this smell issue is a lot more complex than the air space in the Cruze surge tank. If that were it, there would be a PI or TSB broadcast to the world directing everyone to lower the fluid level in the tank. The March Techlink is out and there still is nothing about this issue in it.


Is your Cruze having this concern?

Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

1990tsi said:


> mine was filled to the line below the one with the arrow cold. 3rd rib down I think. when it's hot it sits just below the arrow line. not much change really from full cold to full hot.
> 
> I had the smell when the bottle was pretty much empty as well. I took it in tonight and the service guy wanted me to drive with the head tech, and we re-created the problem right away, once we drove hard up a hill with load, then a full 1-2-3 gear acceleration with the blower on.
> 
> ...


You mention the tank was almost emty once......was it not ever filled or, what made you look?

Rob


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Ours goes back in for round two tomorrow! They replaced the heater core the first time and it was a no go says the wife as she sucks in toxic fumes for 2 hours a day. They replaced the clutch spring and that lasted 1500 miles before it squeeked again. Gotta get that fixed again lol! You guys have more patience then I have that's for sure! Told them I'll take a rental and they can keep the car until its fixed or they can keep the car. I don't have the patience to run back & forth to the dealer on a weekly basis to have a new car fixed. If I wanted to do that I would buy a used piece of junk to work on. Not to mention the car went back 3 times for factory damage & when initially picked up. Rear bumper cover had to be painted 3 times to get it right. 

I did this with a brand new F350 King Ranch so I don't wanna go down that road again (ended up getting a full refund on that and swore never to own a new Ford again). Owned too many new vehicles to count but it seems these latest and greatest vehicles that are severly overpriced are of poor quality no matter what the brand. I purchase new vehicles to turn the key and go.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

honestly, this thread made me check. I had smelled it for a while but didn't think much of it until i read the first many pages of this thread. I may have had a leaky water pump and that's where the coolant went, or maybe the dealer found a coolant related TSB and did my water pump. i will never know. but it was first topped up when the water pump was done.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Puller,

Regarding the odor, have you applied any suggestions on this thread yet?

Rob


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

1990tsi said:


> honestly, this thread made me check. I had smelled it for a while but didn't think much of it until i read the first many pages of this thread. I may have had a leaky water pump and that's where the coolant went, or maybe the dealer found a coolant related TSB and did my water pump. i will never know. but it was first topped up when the water pump was done.


In your case, I suspect the time you smelled coolant, yet the tank was low, likely was the coolant from the pump being thrown onto the hot engine block and exaust.......Odor concern#1
I contend your tank has been filled to that top line we continue to talk about, causing the tank to vent....Odor concern#2

Tomorrow, before starting car, would you look at the fluid level and report please?

Thanks,
Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> I think this _smell issue_ is a lot more complex than the air space in the Cruze surge tank.


You are correct, but the _coolant venting issue_ may be this simple to resolve for most people.

I personally never ever smelled coolant outside OR inside my car until reading up on this issue and topping off my surge tank out of curiosity (it was low, probably since I bought the car). Now that my surge tank is filled to the indicated "cold fill" line I do experience the odor periodically coming to a stop after the engine has been under load. It is a faint odor, nothing troublesome, but it is noticeable. I definitely do not think this is the same issue most people are reporting... the odors I've experienced are vary faint.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Robby said:


> In your case, I suspect the time you smelled coolant, yet the tank was low, likely was the coolant from the pump being thrown onto the hot engine block and exaust.......Odor concern#1
> I contend your tank has been filled to that top line we continue to talk about, causing the tank to vent....Odor concern#2
> 
> Tomorrow, before starting car, would you look at the fluid level and report please?
> ...



I would do that for you but the car is at the dealer and im in a rental. 

If and when I get the car back i will gladly check and report the coolant level


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

1990tsi said:


> I would do that for you but the car is at the dealer and im in a rental.
> 
> If and when I get the car back i will gladly check and report the coolant level


That'll be great but please check it on the morning after you get it back.

Thanks,
Rob


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Robby said:


> That'll be great but please check it on the morning after you get it back.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rob


I will, it will be interesting to see if they topped it up, since it was lines below the line with the arrow when i picked it up after the waterpump replacement.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> so i'm driving an automatic base model 1.8 until they fix it


Out of curiosity, where's the coolant level in the surge tank on your 1.8L base Cruze? Any signs of venting taking place (crusty coolant residue around the vent deflector)?

I wonder if the venting issue is confined to the 1.4T or if it affects the 1.8 as well? Has this been discussed yet? I don't recall reading this yet...


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Out of curiosity, where's the coolant level in the surge tank on your 1.8L base Cruze? Any signs of venting taking place (crusty coolant residue around the vent deflector)?
> 
> I wonder if the venting issue is confined to the 1.4T or if it affects the 1.8 as well? Has this been discussed yet? I don't recall reading this yet...


The 1.8 is a 2012 with 300kms on it, no chance for any real problems yet I'd hope. 

the crusty vent thing though, I can say my eco didn't have that at all. no smell under the hood either


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Robby said:


> Lastly, are you certain it is coolant you are smelling or is it possible you are getting a odor and assuming it to be the odor of coolant?


Rob, it does smell like coolant. Tonight when I was driving I allowed the engine temp to reach between 215 -225 and ran cool air (temp control at 9:00 position) fan speed 4, for about 5-10 minutes both in/out recirculate mode. Then I turned the temp control to the 3:00 position, fan speed 4 and ran it for about 5-10 minutes in/out recirculate mode. Interesting that I did not smell any coolant at fan speed 4, but when I started to back down to fan speeds 3,2,and 1 the coolant smell became heavier the lower the fan speed-both in/out of the recirculate mode. I also diverted the air flow through all the different settings, i.e., dash, floor, defrost, but didn't seem to make a difference--smell the same. Currently, my coolant level is at the third mark above the hose. Tomorrow it is going in the shop for pressure check looking for leaks. They did drop dye in my tank on 18 Dec, so if I have a small leak maybe it will show up by now after running it for a few months. They did tell me they were going to pressure check the cap. When I get it back from the dealer I will drop the coolant level down one more mark and see what develops.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

First, we are talking "gas pressure" here. In the case of our atmosphere, this is also air pressure, which is 14.7 PSI at sea level. This is a conversion from the weight of the atmosphere pressing down as a result of the Earth's gravity. Thus, 14.7 PSI is a relative measure from an absolute of the 0 PSI pressure of a vacuum. Pressure is a force; in this case we're measuring the number of pounds of force being exerted per square inch of surface area. A one square inch of atmosphere exerts 14.7 pounds on a vacuum container sitting at sea level. You cannot have a PSI measure without something against which to measure the exerted force.



Robby said:


> Sorry my last post was so short.......I'm on 4 forums at the same time tonite.
> 
> Start with the potato chips......If the bag is in a box that is sealed at my home in N.E. Illinois at 850 feet and I drove to your place at 5000 feet, what will happen to the bag of chips in the sealed box?


The pressure in the box relative to the pressure in the bag doesn't change, or might actually decrease slightly depending on the stiffness of the box walls. If the box is made of cardboard and tape, the box walls will bulge as you decrease outside air pressure. In this case the bag of chips will also start to bulge. If the box walls are made of aluminum to avoid bulging when the outside air pressure decreases, then the bag of chips won't know it's at higher altitude. However, as soon as you open the box the bag of chips will know that the pressure dropped and immediately bulge, possibly even bursting. 

A real world example of this very issue was when the Leadville, CO hospital (12,000 ft) opened. Drug manufacturers and hospitals must report damaged drugs to the DEA, and there is a limit to the amount of damage allowed before a DEA investigation. When medical staff, usually nurses, opened the outer packaging of sterile, prefilled syringes in Leadville, the syringe plunger would occasionally pop completely out of the syringe tube, ruining the medication. Drug manufacturers had to develop special high altitude packaging for Leadville. This packaging is now used for most Colorado hospitals.



Robby said:


> If I leave my home at 850 ft and my sealed tank air pressure rises to 16psi, what will the pressure be at your front door at 5000 ft?
> It'll still be 16 psi because the spring, that is keeping the cap sealed, was not told it is at 5000 ft nor does it care what the ambient air pressure is at that moment or any other moment, and all the coolant below that 16 psi airspring knows is it's at X degrees.


Almost correct. Pressure vent systems work with relative pressure differential. The cap in the Cruze is a spring generated resistance one-way pressure relief system. The tank structure is stiff enough to keep the tank from bulging and crushing as a result of relative pressure changes.

Now let's check our car before leaving sea level. Part of the check will be to open the coolant cap to ensure there are no signs of leakage around the seal. When you put the cap back on you have effectively set the system's pressure to 14.7 PSI. At this point, your pressure gauge will show 0 because the outside and inside of the tank are at the same pressure. At this point you can increase the tank pressure to 34.7 PSI before the cap's resistance is overcome.

Now start driving, which heats the coolant. Two things happen. The coolant expands and also transfers heat and some vapor to the air above it in the surge tank. The air and vapor also try to expand at a much greater rate than the liquid has already expanded. The result is that the cap, which is never submerged in the coolant "reads" and resists the pressure of the air/vapor mix. Both of these changes in the system can be measured in the form of increased air/vapor pressure in the surge tank. The pressure cap is above the tank so the pressure of the air (with coolant vapors) is what the cap is resisting. 

I'll run through two examples - one of an increase of 14 PSI and one of a 19 PSI increase. The first, 14 PSI, results in an absolute pressure of 28.7 PSI. The latter results in an absolute pressure of 33.7 PSI. Remember, we have not taken the cap off since we did the pre-trip check. 

Now, let's drive to Vail, with it's atmospheric pressure of 10.2 PSI. The cap can still only hold a pressure differential of 20 PSI. This means that the maximum absolute pressure the cap can handle is 30.2 PSI. When cold, your car's coolant system is still 14.7 PSI (we haven't opened it since leaving Long Island). For the car with the 14 PSI increase in pressure, you are still at 28.7 PSI absolute. This car won't vent. For the car running at a 19 PSI increase, you are now at 33.7 PSI, which is 3.5 PSI higher than the cap's spring+external pressure can hold in place. This car will vent coolant. What's interesting in the second car is that after the tank has vented off the extra 3.5 PSI of pressure and then cools down, the "cold" pressure in this car's surge tank will be lower than 14.7 PSI. It will still be somewhere above the 10.2 ambient air pressure because the pressure increase and decrease is not linear with temperature. This car, when returning to Long Island and parked overnight will actually have a "negative" relative pressure that matches the pressure decrease cause by the venting that occurred in Colorado. This will make the cap slightly harder to remove and you may hear a slight hiss when you start unscrewing the cap.



Robby said:


> If I utilize your conclusion, every car and truck and anything else with a pressure dependent system of any sort would be blowing its contents out of whatever escape route it can find......all because the pressure acting on the outside of the vessel is less.


In my example cars above, the car with the 14 PSI increase won't vent. The car with the 19 PSI increase will vent. I picked 14 PSI as one of my examples because either you or Blue Angel (I don't remember who) actually measured 14 PSI at operating temperature. Cars with visible coolant residue in the tank vent channel are obviously running at a pressure increase higher than the cap can hold, so my second car with its 19 PSI system is also reasonable. 



Robby said:


> So, am I missing some simple physics here or is it possible you may be overthinking this subject.


Yes you are missing the fact that pressure relief systems always work on the pressure difference between the inside of the container being protected vs. the pressure outside the container. In the case of the Cruze, the inside is specifically the air space in the surge tank and the outside is the air pressure on the top of the tank as transmitted through the vent.



Robby said:


> However, I do think you should not use ambient air pressure added or subtracted to a pressure vessel.......using the current thought, I wouldn't walk down the soda/beer isle......lot of hand grenades staked up.
> 
> Please overlook my attempts at levity......lotta stuff I write is tounge in cheek.
> 
> ...





Robby said:


> obermd,
> 
> Additional thought if I may........think tire pressure.
> 
> Rob


Tires are actually quite stiff and under normal operating conditions there are no components or spots on the pressure barrier designed to relieve over pressure. The spring in your tire pressure gauge is independent of atmospheric pressure because it's not trying to control a pressure differential. Tire pressure gauges measure the absolute pressure by using a calibrated spring - really good ones can even measure pressures below ambient air pressure. As a result of the container stiffness and a non-relief measuring system, car tire pressures are actually pretty consistent as you change altitude.

- Mike.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Oh Mike,

Yer killin me here ha ha.
I'm gonna have to think of a logical way to bring this back to a 'common man' mindset....for half the day.


Currently we are in the 'agree to disagree agreeably' stage......I hope the readers remain open minded....we may be getting close to being 'stoned'.....chuckleing.

Have a good day my friend,
Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Rob - while you're thinking about it, remember that I didn't say "absolute" altitude is the issue in a pressure relief system. It's the change in altitude that can cause the coolant cap to vent early or late relative to the ambient air pressure. If you take my example and reverse it - doing the visual inspection of the cap seal in Vail, the act of taking the cap off sets the tank pressure to 10.2 PSI. Operating pressure on Long Island will then be 24.6 PSI for the 14 PSI car and 29.2 PSI for the 19 PSI car while the cap's relief pressure will be 34.7 PSI.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Here you go, very simple, factual, and non debatable:

*1. A car's cooling system maximum pressure ALWAYS references ambient pressure. A 20 psi rad cap will vent when the pressure delta between the cooling system and ambient air exceeds 20 psi.

2. Because of #1, the maximum ABSOLUTE pressure of the cooling system will drop at higher altitudes.

3. Because of #2, the boiling temperature of coolant at high altitudes is reduced.

*============================================================

HAVING SAID THAT... AN EXAMPLE (assuming a rigid cooling system, a safe assumption for this case):

If a Cruze with a 20 psi cap is only reaching 15 psi in its cooling system running at sea level (14.7 psi ambient, 29.7 psi absolute), when it drives up a mountain where ambient pressure is 5 psi LESS than sea level (9.7 psi), the pressure in the cooling system is effectively 20 psi. The absolute pressure has not changed (20 + 9.7 = 29.7) and the boiling point of the coolant remains unaffected.

Drive a little higher to where ambient pressure drops to 7 psi LESS than sea level (7.7 psi) and the cooling system pressure is still only 20 psi because the cap vented. HOWEVER, the absolute pressure has fallen by 2 psi (20 + 7.7 = 27.7 psi), and the boiling point of the coolant has decreased proportionally.

Drive the car back down to sea level and the cooling system pressure falls to 13 psi but the ABSOLUTE pressure and coolant boiling point remain the same as when the car was at its highest point (14.7 + 13 = 27.7 psi).

Now park the car, shut it off, and let it cool down over night. As it cools, the cooling system will develop a vacuum and draw air in through the rad cap (it allows air to pass under a vacuum situation). The next morning, start the car and operate it as usual at sea level, and the cooling system is back to normal, operating at the same 15 psi it was before.

We need not make this any more complicated...


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Now park the car, shut it off, and let it cool down over night. As it cools, the cooling system will develop a vacuum and draw air in through the rad cap (it allows air to pass under a vacuum situation). The next morning, start the car and operate it as usual at sea level, and the cooling system is back to normal, operating at the same 15 psi it was before.
> 
> We need not make this any more complicated...


Thanks for the clarification that the cap will reverse vent in a negative pressure gradient. This means the cap vents in both directions, at 20 PSI internal relative pressure and at <0 PSI internal relative pressure with the venting going from high to low pressure. So my example of the car driving back to Long Island isn't entirely correct. The pressure when you arrive will be low, but the system will reset once it cools down.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> ..and at <0 PSI internal relative pressure with the venting going from high to low pressure.


The valve in the cap will hold a slight vacuum before allowing air in, that's why you will sometimes get a sucking sound when removing the cap. Generally speaking, the system adjusts to its environment.


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Robby said:


> Puller,
> 
> Regarding the odor, have you applied any suggestions on this thread yet?
> 
> Rob


Honestly, I let the dealership know of this thread. I don't work on vehicles that have warranty, whats the point of the warranty I pay for?

This is just a work car that we'll own for 2 years put 100,000 on and get another new one. The only reason I read these forums is so I can be informed of the issues my vehicles are having in the event I have to take one in for warranty repair. 

I wrench on my toys not my daily drivers (aside from maintenance). I'm more than capable of fixing anything a dealership can but again I buy new so I can enjoy working\tuning my toys not a little puddle jumper. 

If they can't fix it, they will buy it back and I'll buy something else no big deal.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Robby said:


> Is your Cruze having this concern?
> 
> Rob


Nope, but I've been following this issue for so long, I'm anxious to see how it is resolved.


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## lugnuts (Mar 20, 2013)

Add another victim to the AF smell....Started having problems with about 28,000 miles on vehicle..When first notice the smell coolant was low with hazing on windshield ..Took to dealer and got the no leaks found..Ask if anyone drove and noticed the smell..Short answer no...Because it was raining that day they told me to bring it back so they could properly check for leaks....Took it back later on,odor was getting worse...They did not find any leaks but done the service bulletin with the seals and tubing...Drove the car home and still strong odor...Took the car back later on and got a rental..Car was unbearable to drive...They replaced heater core about a week ago..I can still smell AF but its not as strong...Will drive another few days and if odor is still there will return to dealer and go ahead and contact GM...It looks like this is a design flaw of some sort and unfortunately the consumer will have to go through the headaches of trying to get some satisfaction..


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

lugnuts said:


> Add another victim to the AF smell....Started having problems with about 28,000 miles on vehicle..When first notice the smell coolant was low with hazing on windshield ..Took to dealer and got the no leaks found..Ask if anyone drove and noticed the smell..Short answer no...Because it was raining that day they told me to bring it back so they could properly check for leaks....Took it back later on,odor was getting worse...They did not find any leaks but done the service bulletin with the seals and tubing...Drove the car home and still strong odor...Took the car back later on and got a rental..Car was unbearable to drive...They replaced heater core about a week ago..I can still smell AF but its not as strong...Will drive another few days and if odor is still there will return to dealer and go ahead and contact GM...It looks like this is a design flaw of some sort and unfortunately the consumer will have to go through the headaches of trying to get some satisfaction..


This sounds more like a leak developed in the cabin heater core, which is inside the passenger cabin cage. If the smell doesn't go away have them check the floor mats and insulation in the two front foot wells and the cabin air filter for lingering odor.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Praise the lawd.......

I think we can stop talking......dare I use the word...'pressure?'

Thanks Blue Angel!

Rob


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Fixed the anti-freeze issue!! Traded it in for a 2013 Toyota Corolla S, boy is it nice to have heat without any fumes to choke on. Now I've got a sunroof, foglights and touchscreen radio and 17's all for 18 grand! Gotta love sales.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> Fixed the anti-freeze issue!! Traded it in for a 2013 Toyota Corolla S, boy is it nice to have heat without any fumes to choke on. Now I've got a sunroof, foglights and touchscreen radio and 17's all for 18 grand! Gotta love sales.


...and a crappy car. Sorry dude. Shoulda gone for the Camry.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> ...and a crappy car.


That's a little harsh... I might have called it an "old" car instead (in production since 2006, 2008 in North America); a quote from Wikipedia regarding the new 11th gen model (E160) for sale in Japan, yet to be released in North America:

"The redesigned model has slightly smaller exterior dimensions and is easier to drive in narrow alleys and parking lots for the targeted elderly consumers." 

Link: Toyota Corolla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm glad something worked out for you, blackcruzelt. Two years ago we sold my GF's 2000 Corolla. It was a great car for her. Not too exciting, but it had ~240,000 kms on it and still ran great.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> That's a little harsh... I might have called it an "old" car instead (in production since 2006, 2008 in North America); a quote from Wikipedia regarding the new 11th gen model (E160) for sale in Japan, yet to be released in North America:
> 
> "The redesigned model has slightly smaller exterior dimensions and is easier to drive in narrow alleys and parking lots for the targeted elderly consumers."
> 
> ...


I agree it is old, but its functional and I think it looks decent as the S model, I couldn't pass up the amazing deal that I got either. I wouldn't have been able to do this deal with the Toyota if it wasn't for the settlement check I'll be getting from GM. I advise everyone to get a free lemon law lawyer, and at least get the compensation you deserve even if you plan on keeping the car, you can get some money from GM. Thank you for the well wishes Blue Angel! I also hope this Toyota treats me well!


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Isn't the Corolla kind of sluggish? I hope they changed the odd seating position from the previous model. 
From what I've driven so far I like the VW Golf and Subaru Impreza the best


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

blackcruzelt said:


> Fixed the anti-freeze issue!! Traded it in for a 2013 Toyota Corolla S, boy is it nice to have heat without any fumes to choke on. Now I've got a sunroof, foglights and touchscreen radio and 17's all for 18 grand! Gotta love sales.



Congratulations! Drive it in good health!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> ...and a crappy car. Sorry dude. Shoulda gone for the Camry.



To each his own. He thought his Cruze was crappy!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

When I took my Cruze into the dealership today my service manager shared some additional information regarding the HVAC box status. First, my service manager received a call today from the district specialist and informed me that he wanted my service manager to ensure that the PI0740 was completed as outlined. I did show my service manager the gaps that I have regarding the foam seal attached to the bottom of the cowl grille. They are going to go back in and run through the PI procedures and fix the foam seal as outlined in the PI. Anyway, it appears that before they even consider performing the HVAC box R/R on my vehicle (when boxes are available) that the service department has confirmed that the vapors are not entering the cabin from the engine compartment area. It appears that they are not going to go directly in my HVAC box and "assume" this is the problem until the engine compartment area has been carefully evaluated and everything else has been ruled out as the problem. Now this is my understanding for my vehicle, so I am not saying that this is the protocol for all Cruzes. In a nutshell, they are not going to assume that my problem is the lube in the HVAC box and jump right in and do the work. To me this is good maintenance practices and once they can confirm that they have exhausted all other possible "problem" areas then they would proceed with the HVAC box R/R. I was informed that when they start the HVAC box work that the removed box will go back to be refurbished for another vehicle. They did give me a Cadillac CTS Sport Sedan as a loaner--nice ride, no smell

I did notice quite a few Toyota's on lifts when I was speaking with my service manager. Just happened to catch my eye. I'm sure they were oil changes! I know, I am still sucking fumes--blackcruzelt--congrats on your new Toyota I had a new 2005 Corolla, actually it was a nice car--no problems--traded it in for a new 2008 Subaru Outback (another nice car with no problems).


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> In a nutshell, they are not going to assume that my problem is the lube in the HVAC box and jump right in and do the work. To me this is good maintenance practices...


Agreed. Let's hope they can get through this and get you satisfied with the outcome ASAP.


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## Pilsner73 (Apr 17, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> When I took my Cruze into the dealership today my service manager shared some additional information regarding the HVAC box status. First, my service manager received a call today from the district specialist and informed me that he wanted my service manager to ensure that the PI0740 was completed as outlined. I did show my service manager the gaps that I have regarding the foam seal attached to the bottom of the cowl grille. They are going to go back in and run through the PI procedures and fix the foam seal as outlined in the PI. Anyway, it appears that before they even consider performing the HVAC box R/R on my vehicle (when boxes are available) that the service department has confirmed that the vapors are not entering the cabin from the engine compartment area. It appears that they are not going to go directly in my HVAC box and "assume" this is the problem until the engine compartment area has been carefully evaluated and everything else has been ruled out as the problem. Now this is my understanding for my vehicle, so I am not saying that this is the protocol for all Cruzes. In a nutshell, they are not going to assume that my problem is the lube in the HVAC box and jump right in and do the work. To me this is good maintenance practices and once they can confirm that they have exhausted all other possible "problem" areas then they would proceed with the HVAC box R/R. I was informed that when they start the HVAC box work that the removed box will go back to be refurbished for another vehicle. They did give me a Cadillac CTS Sport Sedan as a loaner--nice ride, no smell
> 
> I did notice quite a few Toyota's on lifts when I was speaking with my service manager. Just happened to catch my eye. I'm sure they were oil changes! I know, I am still sucking fumes--blackcruzelt--congrats on your new Toyota I had a new 2005 Corolla, actually it was a nice car--no problems--traded it in for a new 2008 Subaru Outback (another nice car with no problems).


I have a few questions:

1) Sounds like PI0740 is to make sure the engine compartment is sealed correctly from the passenger cabin? Now this is a good thing but having driven more than a few cars throughout my life where the you know the engine bay/cabin aren't sealed well - the only time I got chemical smells from the engine bay was when there was something wrong, burning, or fluid leaking. So did they mention if the sealing does alleviate the cabin smells what is the next step to make sure the cause of the smell is fixed also?

2) HVAC r/r are they replacing with brand new tested units or refurbs from other Cruzes?


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Pilsner73 said:


> I have a few questions:
> 
> 1) Sounds like PI0740 is to make sure the engine compartment is sealed correctly from the passenger cabin? Now this is a good thing but having driven more than a few cars throughout my life where the you know the engine bay/cabin aren't sealed well - the only time I got chemical smells from the engine bay was when there was something wrong, burning, or fluid leaking. So did they mention if the sealing does alleviate the cabin smells what is the next step to make sure the cause of the smell is fixed also?
> 
> 2) HVAC r/r are they replacing with brand new tested units or refurbs from other Cruzes?


I am not an engineer, but thinking logically it appears that they (GM engineers) still believe that there's a possibility the vapors from the engine compartment could still be an issue related to cabin smell. I am not aware that the PI0740 has worked for anyone at this time, or at least I don't recall any postings of success. What I do know is that I still had gaps where it appeared sealed, but was difficult to see by sight or touch. I had to use a light source to confirm the gaps existed. Initially, when they did the tape/tube/seal PI on my vehicle there was a noticeable difference in smell reduction. I am curious when I get the car back if there will be any difference once they seal up the remaining gaps.

On the other hand it appears the the lube in HVAC box is a problem also. Other members have posted that we are possibly looking at two issue instead of one (engine compartment vapors versus HVAC lube box vapors). Apparently GM (TAC) has confirmed through field testing some boxes with a different lube has produced promising results. So, in my case it appears the initial approach is by trying to tackle the issue through an "elimination" or "rule out" process by doing the best to ensure the engine vapors are sealed and not drawn through the cowl intake that circulates the air into the cabin coupled with the pressure leak test, etc outlined in the PI which I think is good maintenance practices. My hope is that I don't have to have someone go into the dash, but if that is the fix then it needs to get done.

HVAC boxes - I only know what my service manager has shared with me. It appears that TAC has built and field tested some boxes with success. The problem is the supplier at this time (not GM) has to manufacture additional parts to support the PI process before GM releases the PI to do the HVAC work. Once the supplier has enough parts available to meet the demand needed then as pulled boxes come out, they will be refurbished and turned around to support other Cruze vehicles dealing with this problem.


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## Pilsner73 (Apr 17, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I am not an engineer, but thinking logically it appears that they (GM engineers) still believe that there's a possibility the vapors from the engine compartment could still be an issue related to cabin smell. I am not aware that the PI0740 has worked for anyone at this time, or at least I don't recall any postings of success. What I do know is that I still had gaps where it appeared sealed, but was difficult to see by sight or touch. I had to use a light source to confirm the gaps existed. Initially, when they did the tape/tube/seal PI on my vehicle there was a noticeable difference in smell reduction. I am curious when I get the car back if there will be any difference once they seal up the remaining gaps.
> 
> On the other hand it appears the the lube in HVAC box is a problem also. Other members have posted that we are possibly looking at two issue instead of one (engine compartment vapors versus HVAC lube box vapors). Apparently GM (TAC) has confirmed through field testing some boxes with a different lube has produced promising results. So, in my case it appears the initial approach is by trying to tackle the issue through an "elimination" or "rule out" process by doing the best to ensure the engine vapors are sealed and not drawn through the cowl intake that circulates the air into the cabin coupled with the pressure leak test, etc outlined in the PI which I think is good maintenance practices. My hope is that I don't have to have someone go into the dash, but if that is the fix then it needs to get done.
> 
> HVAC boxes - I only know what my service manager has shared with me. It appears that TAC has built and field tested some boxes with success. The problem is the supplier at this time (not GM) has to manufacture additional parts to support the PI process before GM releases the PI to do the HVAC work. Once the supplier has enough parts available to meet the demand needed then as pulled boxes come out, they will be refurbished and turned around to support other Cruze vehicles dealing with this problem.


Thank you for the detailed response, it helps my understanding of this. Now next question do you or anyone know the process for installing a new hvac box and how much work does that involve? 

The reason I ask is if it's a labor intensive job that requires a lot of removal of items just to do the r/r this opens the door to possibly other issues. First one I can think of is something is missed or not put back right by the tech, second is I always fear when something is taken apart it may not go back together as well and issues such as rattles/squeaks, alignment of panels, and other issues could be caused inadvertently.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Pilsner73 said:


> Thank you for the detailed response, it helps my understanding of this. Now next question do you or anyone know the process for installing a new hvac box and how much work does that involve?
> 
> The reason I ask is if it's a labor intensive job that requires a lot of removal of items just to do the r/r this opens the door to possibly other issues. First one I can think of is something is missed or not put back right by the tech, second is I always fear when something is taken apart it may not go back together as well and issues such as rattles/squeaks, alignment of panels, and other issues could be caused inadvertently.


I recall two Cruze owners who have had success with the HVAC box. Go back the the "Coolant Smell Resolution" thread and review the initial postings. You can PM them with your questions and read their postings.

As for taking things apart--yes there is a possibility of squeaks and rattles. My theory - the work performed on your Cruze is only as good as the technician performing the work.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Having a background in car seals, an easy test to check for seal contact is the dollar bill test (or five dollar bill in Canada  )

Take a dollar bill, place it over the seal and close the hood on it. If you can pull the bill out or move it side to side with little to no resistance, the seal is not doing its job. If the seal is making good contact you should feel a reasonable amount of resistance to movement.

Be sure to dry the surfaces before testing.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Take a dollar bill, place it over the seal and close the hood on it. If you can pull the bill out or move it side to side with little to no resistance, the seal is not doing its job. If the seal is making good contact you should feel a reasonable amount of resistance to movement.


This would be ideal for the rubber seal that makes contact with the hood when closed. Just a bit difficult to test the foam seal attached to the bottom of the cowl grille. Great idea


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## arcticcatmatt (May 14, 2012)

my 2012 cruze eco stinks horrible


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Just got my car back. Dealer sealed the areas (gaps) that I identified that were open by using a light source (foam seal attached to lower cowl grille). They ran another pressure check (to include cap) and checked for stains from dye--no leaks and cap passed. Spent some time assessing the smell with car on the road for 45 minutes and checking all circulation modes and fan speeds. There is a noticeable difference and I did not smell any antifreeze. To early to tell, but initial assessment appears that the vapors may have dissipated. I will take a road trip later this evening and report my findings.


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

One thing I observed on my 2011 is that it took some time for coolant smell to come back after opening the coolant tank cap.

Anyway.. I took my 2013 to the dealer this morning, 1000 miles on it. I am getting coolant smell but no coolant loss. My 2011 was loosing about 1/3 inch of coolant per month. I am trying to remain calm, but I must be unlucky as ****. My dealer said no coolant smell is present and no 2013s owners reported this problem until now. Nevertheless, my windshield is covered by greasy film of some kind, just like my 2011 that had 9 repair attempts before I traded for a 2013.

2011







2013








Both look pretty much the same. 2011 had 12k miles, 2013 has 1k miles.


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## Smdqt (Sep 5, 2012)

Could someone please describe to the best of your ability what this antifreeze smells like. And does the windshield "film" come with it or they could be separate. I keep getting a returning cabin smell that comes and goes. Just want to figure out if it's antifreeze fumes that I should be worried about or something else....that I should (not) worry about.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I had some talks with GM recently. They've confirmed that this was in fact the lubricant used in the HVAC box (which is inside the dash) and that a fix is now available. 

I will provide more details as I get them. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Smdqt said:


> Could someone please describe to the best of your ability what this antifreeze smells like.... ...Just want to figure out if it's antifreeze fumes that I should be worried about or something else....that I should (not) worry about.


If you want to find out what antifreeze smells like, with the car COLD (parked on a level surface over night to cool down), slowly remove the cap from the coolant surge tank and smell the bottom of the cap. The surge tank is located by the driver's side shock tower at the back of the engine compartment.

If the smell comes and goes and is not very strong I wouldn't worry too much about it, just check your fluid levels as you would normally do. If the smell becomes a problem, keep an eye on this thread for updates.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Why would the windows be getting that haze if it was just the smell from the lube in the HVAC? That was what my windows looked like the entire time until the day I traded it, boy do I feel bad for the poor sap that just bought my old Cruze.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Smdqt said:


> Could someone please describe to the best of your ability what this antifreeze smells like. And does the windshield "film" come with it or they could be separate. I keep getting a returning cabin smell that comes and goes. Just want to figure out if it's antifreeze fumes that I should be worried about or something else....that I should (not) worry about.





Blue Angel said:


> If you want to find out what antifreeze smells like, with the car COLD (parked on a level surface over night to cool down), slowly remove the cap from the coolant surge tank and smell the bottom of the cap. The surge tank is located by the driver's side shock tower at the back of the engine compartment.
> 
> If the smell comes and goes and is not very strong I wouldn't worry too much about it, just check your fluid levels as you would normally do. If the smell becomes a problem, keep an eye on this thread for updates.


If this isn't smell you're getting, next, go to your dirty clothes hamper and pull out a sock. Sniff it. If this is the smell you have the issue is most likely mold and/or mildew in your HVAC system. GM (and probably most other car manufacturers) has a tried and well tested solution to this smell.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

After receiving my Cruze back from the dealership today I have had a significant change in the cabin smell. After 100+ miles of driving and running the heater consistently with the temp control at the 3:00 position through various speeds and mode circulation settings, I am happy to report that the sealing process along the bottom of the cowl grille apparently has worked and has virtually eliminated my antifreeze smell. I now only have a very faint smell with the fan speed at 1 and 2 and the mode is set at defrost/floor. Every other fan speed and mode setting appears to be delivering fresh air with no smell. I ran the car through these various settings while driving and also when parked with the engine running. While parked, the only thing I did different was that I purged the cabin with fresh air (temp control to 9:00 setting and windows down) every time before resetting the fan speed or mode to another speed or setting. I did exit and reenter the vehicle when I reset each speed and position to check if there was a smell. I confirmed this twice and both times each setting and fan speed reproduced the same results (no smell) except a very faint smell on defrost/floor mode and fan speed 1 and 2. This was the same results while driving.

I am hopeful and feel more confident that it appears that my smell issue was coming from the engine compartment and not the HVAC box as I wasn't looking forward to having that job done, but would welcome it if it was the fix--and still may be. I will monitor these next few days and continue to run the heater through the various settings. I hope the smell I had doesn't resurface. I will report these findings to my service manager. Whatever the case it appears that the cabin is virtually odor free and that's a positive change.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

sounds good, but the fact that you still have a faint smell.......means they kind of fixed your problem...

get the car real hot with the heater off, then turn the blower on. see if it smells...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I now only have a very faint smell with the fan speed at 1 and 2 and the mode is set at defrost/floor. Every other fan speed and mode setting appears to be delivering fresh air with no smell.


Progress!

The small amount of residual smell could still have something to do with the HVAC box, but at least you will be able to enjoy your car. Now you are in the position of choosing if you want to persue this further, and also have the benefit of time on your side... you can keep an eye here for developments and decide on your next move. I hope in the end you feel your patience has paid off!

Another thing; did you replace the cabin air filter? It could be holding onto that coolant smell. The higher fan speeds might draw air through it fast enough that the smell is dilluted and not noticeable, where the lower fan speeds draw a slower stream of air with a more concentrated smell. If this is the case, buying a new filter and removing the old one, putting them side by side and smelling both filters should answer the question. If you're going to own the car for a while you will end up needing a new filter at some point anyway, so if your current filter doesn't smell you can just put it back and save the new one for later.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-chevrolet-cruze-general-discussion-forum/1034-cabin-air-filter.html


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

1990tsi said:


> sounds good, but the fact that you still have a faint smell.......means they kind of fixed your problem...
> 
> get the car real hot with the heater off, then turn the blower on. see if it smells...


What I do know is that it is apparent that the sealing has made a significant difference and continue to narrow the problem down. I performed all these procedures with the car "real hot" and the engine temp always in the 210 - 226 range and turned the blower on after reaching this temp. I still suspect that I have a gap somewhere. My service department used a sealing compound that was manageable to "test" to see if this would work before going in and replacing parts. PI0740 calls for the technician to confirm that this entire area is completely sealed. I am going to speculate that others who have had this procedure completed may still have some areas that were not completely sealed and if it was an engine compartment issue with their car then it will appear that the PI did not work, as mine initially didn't work. But I did have a noticeable difference when they first performed the PI and after this last visit--both times now I am certain that there is a noticeable difference. I am somewhat convinced that the problem with my vehicle lies in the engine compartment. I will continue to work with my service department and this will get fixed. I suspect that there will be a time that I will have this area sealed as outlined and the problem will be resolved (for the engine compartment issue). We are not done yet, but this is promising and I am not sucking fumes anymore as I was. I am still working the "rule out" theory and want to ensure that I can try to confirm that it is either the engine compartment issue or a cabin issue. Frankly, I don't want my dashboard pulled unless it it is last resort, but may need to happen. I know that others reading this may find it hard to believe that the PI0740 appears to be working as no one has reported any success. Do I still have a problem - sure I do. Am I making progress - yes. Is there a significant improvement-absolutely. I now have time to spare and continue to work with my service department without sucking fumes all day long.


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## Pilsner73 (Apr 17, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> What I do know is that it is apparent that the sealing has made a significant difference and continue to narrow the problem down. I performed all these procedures with the car "real hot" and the engine temp always in the 210 - 226 range and turned the blower on after reaching this temp. I still suspect that I have a gap somewhere. My service department used a sealing compound that was manageable to "test" to see if this would work before going in and replacing parts. PI0740 calls for the technician to confirm that this entire area is completely sealed. I am going to speculate that others who have had this procedure completed still have some areas that were not completely sealed and if it is an engine compartment issue with their car then it will appear that the PI did not work, as mine initially didn't work either, but I did have a noticeable difference when they first performed the PI. Both times now I am certain that there is a noticeable difference. I am somewhat convinced that the problem with my vehicle lies in the engine compartment. I will continue to work with my service department and this will get fixed. I suspect that there will be a time that I will have this area sealed as outlined and the problem will be resolved. We are not done yet, but this is promising and I am not sucking fumes anymore as I was. I am still working the "rule out" theory and want to ensure that I can try to confirm that it is either the engine compartment issue or a cabin issue. Frankly, I don't want my dashboard pulled unless it it is last resort. I know that others reading this may find it hard to believe that the PI0740 appears to be working as no one has reported any success. Do I still have a problem-sure. Am I making progress - yes. Is there a significant improvement-absolutely. I now have time to spare and continue to work with my service department without sucking fumes all day long.


Thanks for all the updates and keep us posted how this holds up at keeping the odors at bay. I noticed yesterday I could smell the coolant/chemical smell both inside and outside the car and it was strong enough I noticed it without sniffing for it.


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## CruzeDFB (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm just waiting for my cabin to smell, after driving home without even getting the engine up to full temp I smell a strong odor of coolant on the passenger side (outside). I sniffed the surge tank without any odor, put my head over to the left side and I smell a strong odor of coolant. 

Where exactly are these HVAC boxes located? My dealer didn't find any coolant leaks. 


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The HVAC boxes are buried in the console between the two front foot wells. However, it may be possible to get to them without disassembling the dash/console apart - both the heater core and condenser coil cleaning can be done without doing this.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> The HVAC boxes are buried in the console between the two front foot wells. However, it may be possible to get to them without disassembling the dash/console apart - both the heater core and condenser coil cleaning can be done without doing this.


obermd, I did read your posting last night regarding your success in having the "dirty sock" odor eliminated by having your HVAC cleaned and disinfected. This is good news as it is having me think that since I have had significant progress in reducing the vapors in the cabin that maybe a cleaning/disinfecting might benefit. Thoughts?


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Progress!
> 
> The small amount of residual smell could still have something to do with the HVAC box, but at least you will be able to enjoy your car. Now you are in the position of choosing if you want to persue this further, and also have the benefit of time on your side... you can keep an eye here for developments and decide on your next move. I hope in the end you feel your patience has paid off!
> 
> Another thing; did you replace the cabin air filter? It could be holding onto that coolant smell. The higher fan speeds might draw air through it fast enough that the smell is dilluted and not noticeable, where the lower fan speeds draw a slower stream of air with a more concentrated smell. If this is the case, buying a new filter and removing the old one, putting them side by side and smelling both filters should answer the question. If you're going to own the car for a while you will end up needing a new filter at some point anyway, so if your current filter doesn't smell you can just put it back and save the new one for later.


They did replace the cabin air filter when they first performed the PI0740. So, it has had a few months of air cycled through it. Guess I could get another one, and check it out, but I think I will wait until I have them take one last look for any further gaps.

I can report that today was the first day that I entered my vehicle since I owned it and did not have a "sweet" smell at all. I intentionally ran the car hot last night (215 - 225) temp with heater on, windows closed before shutting it down. I than kept the windows closed all night in the garage just to see if I had any smell this morning. No smell is good news.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> The small amount of residual smell could still have something to do with the HVAC box


I like your thinking and analysis Blue Angel. Couldn't be better timing. Just got off the phone with my service manager. He spoke with the district rep this morning and reported my findings from yesterdays maintenance. It appears that they are thinking that in my situation that I am encountering problems from both areas--the engine compartment and the HVAC box. Even though I am getting a faint smell now through the defrost/floor mode it appears that the next step is to R/R the box. My service manager believes that the PI will be released soon and he is checking daily for the release. He will notify me the day he receives the PI to coordinate the process of scheduling the box R/R as the PI will be released when the supplier has the parts available to proceed. So, in my case it appears that I needed both the PI0740 and the HVAC box to solve this problem. When the box arrives they are going to go back in and remove the cowl grille/seals and clean up the areas that they applied a "temporary" sealing compound this last visit to 'test" the effectiveness of sealing these gaps and replace all the seals/parts for one final sealing. This will be the 5th time that my service department has had the opportunity to work on the sealing process with my vehicle. This doesn't mean that they were incompetent, but that it took several visits to narrow the problem down and troubleshoot after assessing each visit. I hope that with my vehicle this has given my service department the practice/experience needed to help other owners that may have to have the sealing completed when they come in. I am glad that I pursued this issue for my car as long as I did and feel that being patient and persistent has paid off. At least for now I am driving a car that appears to be virtually odor free (and is odor free) as long as I don't run my defrost/floor mode setting. I now have the time to wait this out and have a cabin free of odor.

I did let my service manager know that I would like to know what the status is of modifying/replacing the surge tank as I am expecting a modification/replacement of the tank after the tape/tube job. He is going to speak with the district rep regarding this issue. If I hear anything I will post, if anyone else hears anything please post regarding modification/replacement status.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana - the PI was released last night. It was posted here earlier today. http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...temperature-control-set-high-heat-engine.html


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> BigSkyMontana - the PI was released last night. It was posted here earlier today. http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...temperature-control-set-high-heat-engine.html


Fantastic! Thanks so much!

obermd, when you read this does it appear that PI0740 needs to be completed before proceeding with the HVAC box R/R? The reason I am curious is that in my case it appears that my problem lies in both areas (engine compartment and HVAC box). I am now speculating that after reading this PI that it would appear that the PI0740 did work for me and now the faint smell is a HVAC box issue. So, if the faint smell is removed after the HVAC box R/R then it confirms that I had problems in both areas.

If this remains true after my box R/R then it appears that the problem can lie in both areas and they are trying to "rule out" one area from the other. It is going to be interesting to note how many Cruze's have the problem either in the engine compartment, the HVAC box, or both.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Fantastic! Thanks so much!
> 
> obermd, when you read this does it appear that PI0740 needs to be completed before proceeding with the HVAC box R/R? The reason I am curious is that in my case it appears that my problem lies in both areas (engine compartment and HVAC box). I am now speculating that after reading this PI that it would appear that the PI0740 did work for me and now the faint smell is a HVAC box issue. So, if the faint smell is removed after the HVAC box R/R then it confirms that I had problems in both areas.
> 
> If this remains true after my box R/R then it appears that the problem can lie in both areas and they are trying to "rule out" one area from the other. It is going to be interesting to note how many Cruze's have the problem either in the engine compartment, the HVAC box, or both.


I couldn't tell from reading this PI if the full PI-0740, including the vent reroute which looks like a four year old designed, needed to be done, or if just the verification of no DexCool leaks and air leaks through the firewall into the cabin air intake needed to be done.


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## Smdqt (Sep 5, 2012)

obermd said:


> If this isn't smell you're getting, next, go to your dirty clothes hamper and pull out a sock. Sniff it. If this is the smell you have the issue is most likely mold and/or mildew in your HVAC system. GM (and probably most other car manufacturers) has a tried and well tested solution to this smell.



I have actually done that and smelled the tank with pink-ish liquid that was half full (aka is that the right one?). The smell was not the same, but I was wondering if when it evaporates it smells a bit differently. The best way to describe my smell is to compare it to the car wash soap smell - kinda irritant, plastic-y but tolerable. Then again, not sure if all car washes use the same soap, but people who use Petro Canada car washes will know what I'm talking about.

I just want to make sure I'm not breathing fumes that will harm me and we all know what the dealer will say (and I have to say, most problems magically disappear when at the dealer): "Couldn't reproduce - didn't find anything. Just drive your car more often"


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Received an email later this evening from my service manager. My parts are on order for the HVAC box maintenance. 

First day of driving my Cruze since purchased without sucking coolant fumes from the engine compartment. Seals appear to be holding up and keeping the smell out of the cabin. The light is getting brighter at the end of the tunnel.

First posting out of 107 that I have a SMILE!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Received an email later this evening from my service manager. My parts are on order for the HVAC box maintenance.
> 
> First day of driving my Cruze since purchased without sucking coolant fumes from the engine compartment. Seals appear to be holding up and keeping the smell out of the cabin. The light is getting brighter at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> First posting out of 107 that I have a SMILE!


Man, you've sure got some patience with the thing. I'd have parked it in front of a train by now. Glad GM's finally getting around to dealing with the REAL issue.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Received an email later this evening from my service manager. My parts are on order for the HVAC box maintenance.
> 
> First day of driving my Cruze since purchased without sucking coolant fumes from the engine compartment. Seals appear to be holding up and keeping the smell out of the cabin. The light is getting brighter at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> First posting out of 107 that I have a SMILE!



Cruzetalk person of the YEAR for sure! YOU probably had MORE to do with GM getting to this point than they did!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> First posting out of 107 that I have a SMILE!


Let's hope it's the first of many!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> Cruzetalk person of the YEAR for sure! YOU probably had MORE to do with GM getting to this point than they did!


Hey, honestly, you really kept me laughing and you and others here at Cruze Talk really deserve :3tens:. I have learned a lot on this thread and forum and as I posted before there are a lot of Cruze Talk members who have expertise, experience and a lot of knowledge that helped me think through this process. I also have to give my service manager :3tens: for he is truly working hard in trying to do his part in tackling this issue. He and I have learned much from each other--both me sharing everyone's expertise and knowledge from this forum and he sharing information from the district specialist.

So, now I move to the next level of tackling this issue - the HVAC box maintenance. Hesitant at first, but it appears that this is where the rest of the problem lies. My service manager has assured me that he has a technician who is their key player in making sure this is a touchdown for me when they go in to do this maintenance. My hope is that this problem is resolved quickly not only for me, but, for everyone else.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> My service manager has assured me that he has a technician who is their key player in making sure this is a touchdown for me when they go in to do this maintenance.


Doesn't it feel good to talk to someone knowledgeable, thoughtful and able to genuinely make you feel like everything is going to be just fine? Sounds like your service manager is among the few great ones out there... your dealership is probably very lucky to have him on staff.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSky - ask him to do the mold/mildew treatment while he has your Cruze apart. Might as well eliminate that as a possibility at the same time. Major symptom of this is a "dirty sock" smell.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> BigSky - ask him to do the mold/mildew treatment while he has your Cruze apart. Might as well eliminate that as a possibility at the same time. Major symptom of this is a "dirty sock" smell.


Great idea! I will ask for this procedure to be accomplished. Since I am on I think I'll take a moment to recap what I have done working through this process. I don't want to belabor on this process, but try to put it in perspective for others to read hoping that it will benefit them if they have the same issue. 

I am now convinced that there are two issues (engine compartment and HVAC box) as you, obermd and others have thought and previously posted. I now believe that PI0740 has worked for me because it does appear that I had an engine compartment issue with coolant vapors being drawn into the air intake. I suspect that I am now dealing with the HVAC lube smell issue in the cabin (no cabin smell now unless I run the defrost/floor mode setting). I have always had a "sweet" smell in my cabin since the day I purchased my Cruze, but, not anymore. Today is day #2 since I've had the cowl grille foam seal gaps sealed and I have no smell. It is most noticeable when I initially enter the vehicle - always had the smell - not anymore. Checked again first thing this morning--no smell.

Obviously, the breakthrough was the discovery of the lube in the HVAC system and I agree that the service department who went the extra mile to troubleshoot this problem should be recognized for their extraordinary effort to solve this problem.

_GM could you take a moment and recognize this service department who have won the respect of many Cruze owners?

_So, in a nutshell:

- PI0740 completed - a noticeable difference, but cabin continued to smell like coolant.
- I questioned the sealing procedure completed. Met with my service manager and reviewed PI0740. He wanted to go back into the engine compartment and verify that all sealing procedures were accomplished as outlined.
- Car back into service department to confirm sealing procedures. Replaced seals to include the rubber seal that makes contact with the hood when closed. They did use a "puddy" compound to help seal some areas along both the left/right cowl grille panels that were questionable and they felt that these areas should possibly be sealed and identified as part of the PI0740 procedures. After this visit, once again I was able to notice a change, but still had the coolant smell in the cabin.
- Vapors continued in the cabin with or without heater on and appeared to "hang-out" more often (?)
- After reading several postings on this thread and thinking through the process I decided to check the foam seal that is attached to the lower part of the right/left cowl grille. See attached pic.









Everything looked sealed, but when I took a light source and ran along the sealing around I discovered gaps that would allow vapors to be sucked into the air intake right above my surge tank.

- Contacted my service manager and made another visit with my Cruze. They used the same "puddy" compound to seal the gaps discovered along the foam seal. This is when the vapors appeared to dissipate and my cabin started to be odor free of coolant smell.
- Now I only have a "dexcool" smell when I run my heater with engine "real hot"(210 - 225) with temp control fully open (3:00 position) in the defrost/floor mode setting.

The more I look at the design and intent of PI0740 I do believe that it was intended to do what has happened to my vehicle--seal any engine vapors from entering the cabin through the HVAC system. My thoughts after going through this process:
(1) Are the seals provided for this maintenance effective and should there be additional sealing requirements not identified in the PI procedures as my service department used an additional "puddy" compound to seal additional areas that they felt needed to be sealed (not outlined in the PI) to ensure engine vapors were blocked from entering the air intake.
(2) Should the PI have the technician run a light source along the foam seal attached to the bottom of the left/right cowl grille after reinstallation checking for additional gaps? It is difficult to see or feel. It appears to be sealed, but a light source I feel is a great option to confirm the foam seal is actually doing its job.

Now to the surge tank. I know there is a great deal of information that was recently posted on this thread regarding the surge tank. After they complete the HVAC work on my vehicle and I can confirm that my defrost/floor mode setting is clear and I am confident that I don't have any "coolant/lube" smell period, I am going to ask if they would replace my tank with a new tank and pressure cap to rid of the tape/tube. I am curious to see the outcome. If my engine compartment is sealed as I feel my service department has mastered this procedure then would the diverting of vapors off the tank really matter at this point?

If it is confirmed that the engine compartment and HVAC system are two separate issues as many of us think, ( and I think I will be able to confirm with my Cruze after the HVAC maintenance) then is it time for GM to go back and look at the PI0740 procedures once again and see if there needs to be any modifications as it appears to me that it does need another look?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSky - you are probably the most patient person on the planet.

I bet if you take the tube and tape off your surge tank and clean up the tape residue you'll discover that the only modification actually made to the tank was to remove the vent cover. You may be able to find a junked Cruze and take the vent cover off that Cruze's surge tank. It snaps onto the tank.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> BigSky - you are probably the most patient person on the planet.
> 
> I bet if you take the tube and tape off your surge tank and clean up the tape residue you'll discover that the only modification actually made to the tank was to remove the vent cover. You may be able to find a junked Cruze and take the vent cover off that Cruze's surge tank. It snaps onto the tank.


Thanks. Didn't think of that. I'll see if I can find a junked Cruze and get the vent cover. Maybe I'll ask my service manager if they have one "laying around." I am not so sure that the current modification is even working. If it appears that everything is well after the HVAC maintenance then I will proceed with removing the tape and disconnecting the tube. I will leave the tube attached with the fasteners, snap on the vent cover, and then see what develops. If it appears that it works then I will remove the tube from where it's routed, otherwise, I will insert it back into the opening and re-tape.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

just a weekend update, The dealer has had my car for 4 days now with the oil leak and coolant smell, and the service guy called me today to say that they found damage to the bottom end, bad rings, damaged piston holes, so they've ordered me a new engine. They'll have the new engine in a week they hope and then will start to look at the coolant smell!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Wow... You're gonna have that 1.8 for a while yet it seems!


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

obermd, what do you mean by the mold/mildew treatement? Are you aware of any areas that are prone to develop mold?


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

gt_cristian said:


> obermd, what do you mean by the mold/mildew treatement? Are you aware of any areas that are prone to develop mold?


The AC evaporator in the dash and the ductwork down stream from it can build up mold or mildew and cause an odor problem. It's not new, having been around since they started putting AC in cars. That's why auto parts stores sell cans of deodorizing spray to get rid of the smell. I paid $3 for a can to clear the smell out of my Mazda last summer.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

gt_cristian said:


> obermd, what do you mean by the mold/mildew treatement? Are you aware of any areas that are prone to develop mold?


http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-service-issues/12364-one-more-cruze-cabin-stench-eliminated.html


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Just curious - has anyone else thought about getting their Cruze scheduled in for the HVAC maintenance? I have decided that once my parts are in I am going to ask to meet with my service manager and the technician together performing the work. I would like for them to "walk" me through the procedure so I have a better understanding of the undertaking and outcome of this task. This will give me the opportunity to ask questions and let them know of any concerns that might surface as we speak.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Hey BSM, what would be really awesome is if you could go through the new HVAC box with the tech and get an explanation of where the offending grease was located and take some pics, as well as gather info on the new grease. In the event someone has this issue in a Cruze that's out of warranty (or for someone interested in doing their own work) this information would be pure gold!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Hey BSM, what would be really awesome is if you could go through the new HVAC box with the tech and get an explanation of where the offending grease was located and take some pics, as well as gather info on the new grease. In the event someone has this issue in a Cruze that's out of warranty (or for someone interested in doing their own work) this information would be pure gold!


Good thinking. It would be a good idea to take some pics and get some information if all possible. I do have a digital camera that I can "loan" and ask for specific pics. Really, if I could just get some shots as they move along that would be helpful. I could sit down with them before/afterwards and have them "educate" me on the process "HVAC Refurbishment 501". I am coming upon a break here next week and will be off from work for about 7 days. If the parts arrive later this week around the time I am off maybe they will allow me to observe some of the work. I would like to see this work being performed if I could, not just because it is my vehicle, but to see how things work under the dash and what is causing all the "ruckus." I do understand liability issues in the service area with non-employees so this may be a show stopper. It doesn't hurt to ask. All they can say is no. Whatever the outcome I will present to them my digital camera and the request. I'll see what I can do.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi Saint BigSky!

THIS is what you need next! :lol: The ONLY problem is that they don't make it for the Cruze yet! I am going to call them tomorrow and give them a heads up! They could make a fortune with the 2011-13 models!

FRAM® FreshBreeze | Home


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

fastdriver said:


> Hi Saint BigSky!
> 
> THIS is what you need next! :lol: The ONLY problem is that they don't make it for the Cruze yet! I am going to call them tomorrow and give them a heads up! They could make a fortune with the 2011-13 models!
> 
> FRAM® FreshBreeze | Home


I looked for this last year when I changed my filter. As many striped kitties who get scared near my house it would help to clear the air after driving by one.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> Hi Saint BigSky!
> 
> THIS is what you need next! :lol: The ONLY problem is that they don't make it for the Cruze yet! I am going to call them tomorrow and give them a heads up! They could make a fortune with the 2011-13 models!
> 
> FRAM® FreshBreeze | Home


Yep, would of helped a few days ago before I had those gaps sealed--no need for it now. Another day of fresh air while cruzen!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Yep, would of helped a few days ago before I had those gaps sealed--no need for it now. Another day of fresh air while cruzen!


I have some GOOD NEWS! I just called FRAM and they DO make these cabin air filters for the Cruze! I informed him that their website needs to be updated because all it shows is the Impala and HHR models only. The model number is CF 10775. It is called Fresh Breeze. They told me that places like Pep Boys, Auto Zone, O'Reilly's and sometimes Amazon carry them. They said that if they don't have them in stock, they can order them. He had no idea about price. Hopefully, this will be of some help to others who STILL have "THAT" smell! :frown:


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## rezz02 (Dec 17, 2012)

I have this smell too. Also notice a haze on the inside of my windshield coming from the defroster vents on the dash. Comes back everytime I clean it. (non smoker vehicle) Anyone else have this problem with the haze?? The dealer did the antifreeze tube and hood seal to the vehicle also, didn't make any difference. They told me there is nothing else they can do. Only 12,000 miles on it now. Glad I bought the extended GM 100K warranty.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

If there is no loss of coolant then you can consider the haze plastic to air reaction related......gotta loose coolant for it to recondense or make a film.
The reaction does show worse near the defrost vents.....blame the plastics within the airbox.......Sadly, after years, it'll still do it, just not as badly or show as frequently.

I know it is exausting but it may be useful to you to read all, uh, three I think, threads regarding odor. Try and remember to keep the wheat and discard the chaff.

Rob


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Received an email later this evening from my service manager. My parts are on order for the HVAC box maintenance.
> 
> First day of driving my Cruze since purchased without sucking coolant fumes from the engine compartment. Seals appear to be holding up and keeping the smell out of the cabin. The light is getting brighter at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> First posting out of 107 that I have a SMILE!




BigSkyMontana,
Thanks for the update on this. That is great news!! If you have any questions, comments or concerns please feel free to contact me anytime.
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

rezz02 said:


> I have this smell too. Also notice a haze on the inside of my windshield coming from the defroster vents on the dash. Comes back everytime I clean it. (non smoker vehicle) Anyone else have this problem with the haze?? The dealer did the antifreeze tube and hood seal to the vehicle also, didn't make any difference. They told me there is nothing else they can do. Only 12,000 miles on it now. Glad I bought the extended GM 100K warranty.


What good is the warranty if the dealer tells you there is nothing else they can do for you! This is when you escalate the case and call GM Corporate and report your problem and tell them that you want to get in touch with the district manager. Maybe they can show the dealer what else he can do!:$#angry:


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

rezz02 said:


> I have this smell too. Also notice a haze on the inside of my windshield coming from the defroster vents on the dash. Comes back everytime I clean it. (non smoker vehicle) Anyone else have this problem with the haze?? The dealer did the antifreeze tube and hood seal to the vehicle also, didn't make any difference. They told me there is nothing else they can do. Only 12,000 miles on it now. Glad I bought the extended GM 100K warranty.


I did not have the hazing issue and I am not able to comment on this issue. If you would go back to page 53 and review posting #523 it may give you some insight of what I experienced. It appears to be two issues and ruling out the engine compartment (PI0740) was a challenge for me, but it eventually worked. My service department went above and beyond the PI to ensure the sealing procedures were effective. I would carefully look at the work completed by your service department and if it is questionable, I would go back and make another visit. My theory regarding this "coolant smell" is that you must rule out the engine compartment first before proceeding to the HVAC maintenance (PI0935). Once my service department sealed the areas that were questionable in my engine compartment I had a significant change in my cabin--I am not encountering any smell anymore unless I run my heater in the defrost/floor mode setting (which now I am speculating it is the lube in the HVAC box).

My suggestion -- Work closely with your service manager. I am not sure if the validity and/or reliability of the existing PI0740 is effective the way it is currently written. I am not aware of any other Cruze owner in which they have reported success. If I was a GM manager in this department I would be carefully reassessing PI0740, trying to measure the results somehow, ensuring that the current PI in place is written and field tested to be effective, and ensure the technicians at the dealerships are trained or get the proper training to complete this task as outlined. I just think this is paramount before moving into the HVAC box R/R. I speculate that there are Cruzes out there that may only have one of the two issues (engine compartment or HVAC box) or both issues as in my case. I think that is why GM intentionally included the step to first complete PI0740 to rule out engine vapor issues before proceeding to the HVAC box R/R.


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## Tkchumly (Jan 21, 2013)

rezz02 said:


> I have this smell too. Also notice a haze on the inside of my windshield coming from the defroster vents on the dash. Comes back everytime I clean it. (non smoker vehicle) Anyone else have this problem with the haze?? The dealer did the antifreeze tube and hood seal to the vehicle also, didn't make any difference. They told me there is nothing else they can do. Only 12,000 miles on it now. Glad I bought the extended GM 100K warranty.


I had the haze as well, that ended up being my heater core. After that was replaced, I was exposed to the coolant smell with burning plastic. I don't know what everyone else's status is on the HVAC box, but mine was completed on March 13th. I don't smell any coolant and the plastic smells new, not burnt. I wanted to wait before I posted this to make sure I witnessed my car operating on a cold day or two before getting too happy and posting it all over. I had a few other problems that I had to bring the car back for as far as dash pieces not fully put back together, but it has been nine days now and I am happy with no smells. Also I must point out the I did not have PI0740 performed. My point is, after the heater core was replaced, hazing stopped.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I think the reason the final PI for this says to do PI-0740 first is that PI-0740 is significantly less intrusive to the car and less costly to perform. It also is designed to fix any engine coolant leaks and prevent any coolant vapors venting in the engine bay from being sucked into the cabin outside air intake.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> I think the reason the final PI for this says to do PI-0740 first is that PI-0740 is significantly less intrusive to the car and less costly to perform. It also is designed to fix any engine coolant leaks and prevent any coolant vapors venting in the engine bay from being sucked into the cabin outside air intake.


Agree, and who wants to be the one who may have an engine vapor issue and not the HVAC box issue. Yep, you guessed it, if 0740 is not done or done incorrectly, then then outcome could be  for the owner.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Tkchumly said:


> I don't know what everyone else's status is on the HVAC box, but mine was completed on March 13th. Also I must point out the I did not have PI0740 performed.


I think this is what has made this issue so complex and puzzling. It appears to be uncertain how to assess every Cruze having this problem unless they start somewhere and apparently GM still suspects that the engine compartment could be a problem (as in my case). After having success with 0740 I am now dealing with a faint smell in one mode setting (defrost/floor). I could probably live with skipping the HVAC box R/R if I wanted to go that route as the smell is faint and really not that annoying or irritating. But, now I am curious about the HVAC box :icon_scratch:. That is why I have decided to proceed with the HVAC box R/R hoping that it will eliminate the smell. If this eliminates the smell (which I am going to speculate it will) then I can say in confidence that my Cruze had both issues (engine compartment and HVAC box). I am also curious about the surge tank - if the HVAC box works, next I am going to detach the tube from the surge tank, install the vent plug, ensure the coolant is at the cold fill arrow and see what develops. It would be great if someone could set up a poll on this forum and see how many Cruzes are affected, what PI was performed (0740, 0935, or both) and the outcome.


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## Tkchumly (Jan 21, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Agree, and who wants to be the one who may have an engine vapor issue and not the HVAC box issue. Yep, you guessed it, if 0740 is not done or done incorrectly, then then outcome could be  for the owner.


Just to be clear my service was completed before the PI came out, therefore no guidance could have been heeded if it didn't exist. With that in mind and reading the previous post included, I haven't been reading a whole lot of: "The tube on my surge tank and hood seals totally worked!" If its been proven that the grease smells like coolant, and there is the grease in the box, sooner or later you will smell the coolant smell. Whether vapors from the engine are coming in or not, the grease will be there, waiting to strike your nostrils like a sneaky ninja.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Tkchumly said:


> Whether vapors from the engine are coming in or not, the grease will be there, waiting to strike your nostrils like a sneaky ninja.


And this may be the case with my Cruze as it has low mileage (7700) miles at this time that may contribute to the faint smell, but several miles and heater operations later the lurking "ninja" may strike my nostrils when least expected.


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## Tkchumly (Jan 21, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> And this may be the case with my Cruze as it has low mileage (7700) miles at this time that may contribute to the faint smell, but several miles and heater operations later the lurking "ninja" may jump out at me when least expected.


One more thing I might point out is, depending on where you live, spring is approaching. I will pass my 36 before the next time it gets cold. It may be to your benefit to solve the problem sooner rather than later.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> ...I have decided to proceed with the HVAC box R/R hoping that it will eliminate the smell. If this eliminates the smell (which I am going to speculate it will) then I can say in confidence that my Cruze had both issues (engine compartment and HVAC box).


After everything that's been reported on these issues, I think it's safe to say now that EVERY Cruze will vent underhood in certain situations if the surge tank is filled to the indicated cold fill line. It is, after all, a situation where all cars are exactly the same and I see no reason why one car would vent and another wouldn't (given the same operating condidions, obviously).

The variable with the underhood venting seems to be how much odor is allowed to pass to the HVAC intake, which seems to be directly related to how well the hood-to-cowl seal is performing. It could be that every Cruze with topped up coolant is venting all the time, but only owners of cars with cowl seal gaps are able to detect the smell inside the car while driving.

BSM, based on your experience the hood seal seems to have been the culprit. I will re-itterate something I wrote earlier; the dollar bill test.

*ANYONE WITH COOLANT SMELL ISSUES SHOULD TRY THE DOLLAR BILL TEST ON THE HOOD SEAL:
*
1. Open the hood.
2. Starting near the left side of the hood, place a dollar bill on the seal so you can grab it in the cowl area with the hood closed (the extreme left side of the seal will require the bill to stick out sideways over the fender).
3. Slowly lower the hood and latch it completely, being careful not to blow the bill away (drop the hood from a low height).
4. Grab the bill through the cowl area and pull it out.
5. Repeat this the whole way across the cowl seal.

If there is little to no resistance to moving the bill, or if you are able to freely move it side to side, the seal is not making adequate contact with the hood. Note any areas where poor contact exists and tell this to your dealer.

There are two reasons why the seal would not make proper contact with the hood. One is if the seal itself is not formed properly and doesn't sit tall enough to touch the hood. The other is if the gap between the seal flange (the "rib" the seal mounts on) and the hood is too large. Simply replacing the seal with a new one of the same shape/design will not cure the problem if the gap is too large, but shimming the seal to sit higher will. This is something your dealership should be able to do.

To recap: If you smell fumes, and even if you have had PI0740 performed, check your hood seal contact. If there are gaps this is likely to be where your coolant smell is coming from.

If your hood seal is performing as intended and you still smell fumes, you may need to have the up-coming HVAC box lube fix performed. Also try lowering the coolant level in the surge tank to the second line from the bottom, as this will help prevent the venting issue from happening in the first place (see earlier in this thread for details).

Just as a point of reference, I tested my hood seal and it is making good contact all the way from the center to the left edge (I didn't bother testing the right side). I didn't EVER smell coolant until I topped up my surge tank. Now with the tank full I get a very occasional "wiff" of coolant when coming to a stop after having the engine under load, but the smell is faint and not bothersome at all. I have had other people in the car when I smelled it and no one has mentioned it yet. In my case, this is not an issue that needs fixing. As far as I can tell, my HVAC box is not emitting any odours at this time.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

This is a pic of the surge tank. The ribs are on the front passenger side. Lowering COLD coolant level to the second rib from the bottom will reduce venting.



Blue Angel said:


> View attachment 11924
> 
> (1. Points to the weld line, the arrows are set at the first rib below that)


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> BSM, based on your experience the hood seal seems to have been the culprit. I will re-itterate something I wrote earlier; the dollar bill test.


I am not able to confirm the hood seal, but my service department decided to replace the hood seal anyway while they were doing the work. One thing for sure is I believe the culprit for my Cruze was the foam seal located (attached to the bottom of the left/right cowl grille.) See pic on posting #523, page 53. Once they sealed the gaps (discovered with a a light source) the smell dissipated and has not returned to the cabin. This has me question the integrity of this seal and if there are possibly other Cruzes that may have the same problem regarding this foam seal--not sealing properly as designed. I do think checking the hood seal is necessary as this can cause the issue also. If I am thinking logically, now since it appears I have sealed the vapors between the engine compartment and cabin, it doesn't matter what the coolant level of my tank would be. I will figure this out after the HVAC job. If the HVAC R/R eliminates the last faint smell I have, (which I am thinking it will) I will detach the tube and see what develops. I am thinking I will have no change in the cabin. If this is the case, should PI0740 focus specifically on sealing the areas around the hood-to-cowl grille, and eliminate the tape/tube requirement? I understand why they initially spelled out the procedures for this to be performed, but really is it necessary if sealing the engine compartment is working as designed?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> See pic on posting #523, page 53.


Do you have a link handy? Was this in the V1 Coolant Smell Thread?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The tube in PI-0740 is to reroute excess venting. Lowering your coolant level allows the surge tank to handle more expansion before the pressure causes the cap to vent.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Do you have a link handy? Was this in the V1 Coolant Smell Thread?


This thread. Go back a few pages.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Tkchumly said:


> It may be to your benefit to solve the problem sooner rather than later.


I agree. I would like to get this resolved ASAP and move on. This past weekend when I washed/cleaned my Cruze, it was the first time that I felt I was washing a new car and not cleaning up a pan of hot coolant just drained from a vehicle.


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## Tkchumly (Jan 21, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I agree. I would like to get this resolved ASAP and move on. This past weekend when I washed/cleaned my Cruze, it was the first time that I felt I was washing a new car and not cleaning up a pan of hot coolant just drained from a vehicle.


I just wanted to clarify, you should get it fixed soon (not only because of personal satisfaction/smell destruction, but also) because unless you want to run your heat when its warm outside to test the fix, you might be stuck waiting to test it until next winter (Unless you have a large freezer to put your Cruze in or take a trip to the arctic). Will you still be within warranty then? That is another issue I will be bringing up to the service manager. What if it comes back down the road outside of warranty? Spring is around the corner and if the fix is just getting rolled out many people that aren't at the top of the list wont have a good opportunity to test the fix until next winter.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> This thread. Go back a few pages.


Got it - what you meant to say was "See pic on posting #523, *page 18*.", not page 53! 

Checking into that now...


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I agree. I would like to get this resolved ASAP and move on. This past weekend when I washed/cleaned my Cruze, it was the first time that I felt I was washing a new car and not cleaning up a pan of hot coolant just drained from a vehicle.



I guess all good things come to those who wait....and wait....and wait.....


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Tkchumly said:


> I just wanted to clarify, you should get it fixed soon (not only because of personal satisfaction/smell destruction, but also) because unless you want to run your heat when its warm outside to test the fix, you might be stuck waiting to test it until next winter (Unless you have a large freezer to put your Cruze in or take a trip to the arctic). Will you still be within warranty then? That is another issue I will be bringing up to the service manager. What if it comes back down the road outside of warranty? Spring is around the corner and if the fix is just getting rolled out many people that aren't at the top of the list wont have a good opportunity to test the fix until next winter.



I would guess that if the issue is documented DURING your warranty period, it will be covered AFTER the warranty period runs out! Then again, GM does as they please and seem to have NO set method of dealing with issues.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Tkchumly said:


> Will you still be within warranty then? That is another issue I will be bringing up to the service manager. What if it comes back down the road outside of warranty?


My Cruze is just rolling over 7800 miles. Frankly, my window is still wet from removing the window sticker. I actually have a call into my GM service and district rep asking for an extended warranty if all possible. I will wait and see what GM's response will be. It would be nice to have that extended warranty on the table and available for use if the problem resurfaces, or if you have a dash related problem due to the HVAC box maintenance.


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## Tkchumly (Jan 21, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> My Cruze is just rolling over 7700 miles. Frankly, my window is still wet from removing the window sticker. I actually have a call into my GM service and district rep asking for an extended warranty if all possible. I will wait and see what GM's response will be. It would be nice to have that extended warranty on the table and available for use if the problem resurfaces, or if you have a dash related problem due to the HVAC box maintenance.


I have found the district reps to be very condescending, in a polite way, and also powerless. After asking to initiate a buyback the conversation with a district rep ended in him telling me to "just use my heat less until if/when GM decides to release a fix." Also "GM doesn't want to pay for a rental car until there is a fix." I've found the only people who are only slightly on your side, may be the dealership (or your lawyer).


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Met with my service manager today to discuss HVAC Box R/R. After weighing all options I have decided to wait and not have this procedure (PI0935) completed at this time.

Reasons for the decision:
1. Low mileage on my Cruze - just rolled over 7800 miles.
2. Have several more months on my bumper-to-bumper warranty. Warranty good into mid 2014.
3. Faint glycol-based or plastic smell with heater on fan speed 1-2 in defrost/floor mode only. All other mode settings clear.
4. PI0740 appeared to work and cabin is odor free of coolant smell.

My service manager has the right/left cowl grille on order as this is where we found gaps that apparently allowed engine compartment vapors to enter the cowl intake. My service department will replace the left/right cowl grille and reseal all areas using 3M Window Weld Ribbon Sealer, Part #08612. This is also used in PI0740 on the end of the tube prior to inserting into surge tank and there are a few other small areas around the cowl intake outlined in the PI. Additionally, my service department will use this sealer to help seal additional areas around the cowl grille not outlined in the PI to ensure a proper seal. We have decided to run a small bead of the 3M sealer along the mating surface of the lower right/left cowl grille (foam seal and metal top edging) before final installation. This will ensure a tight seal along this sealing area as this is where we recently discovered the gaps that when sealed last week with the 3M sealer on the outside the vapors dissipated and were removed from being drawn into the cabin.

3M Window Weld Ribbon Sealer Part #08612









Left/Right Cowl Grille Seal










PI0740 does call for the technician to replace/repair this seal (lower cowl grille foam seal) if needed. The problem with my Cruze is the seal appeared to be serviceable and once reinstalled it appeared to make proper contact and looked/felt like it was sealing as designed. But, running a light source along the sealing area proved that it was not sealing as designed and I had gaps directly above the surge tank. After sealing these gaps with the 3M sealer last week the cabin odor was removed.

So, for now I am going to put the HVAC box maintenance on the back burner. I will reassess when the cold weather returns. If needed I will still have my bumper-to-bumper warranty available to address this situation. I think this is a wise decision for now, less intrusive, and possibly less problems surfacing after dashboard disassemble/reassembly. I am also going to have the HVAC cleaning/disinfecting work maintenance completed after the resealing process.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm still awaiting the parts (left/right cowl grille) to have my service department go back in and complete the resealing/part replacement. Just to revamp the process a week ago my dealership sealed the lower foam seal attached to the bottom of the right/left cowl grille with 3M sealer as this is where we found gaps (by a light source). After this sealing process it was confirmed that PI0740 was successful. This next visit will be a clean-up/reseal/part replacement job. I also requested to have the surge tank and pressure cap replaced and to get rid of the tape/tube. I personally ordered a new tank and cap as I want to get rid of this "Engineering 101" setup (my personal opinion.) Cap doesn't really need replaced, but I am going to replace it anyway. For a few dollars out of my pocket I can restore my surge tank back to the original state. If my dealership picks up the tab, great. If not--okay. I figure the worst case scenario removing the tape/tube would be my engine compartment having a stronger smell after parking.

I also spoke with my GM Customer Service Rep today. I shared with her my dissatisfaction in the way GM has handled this case, not only for me, but for others who have been frustrated and dealing with the same issue. I spent some time on the phone with her and let her know that I appreciated her coordinating this issue to the best of her ability with my service manager and how satisfied I was with the outcome of my service department tackling this issue until resolution (with the engine compartment vapors.) I ended up closing my case with GM since PI0740 was successful. Next winter when I start using the heater and the lube in the HVAC box starts to creep in (which is highly likely since I have a faint smell in the defrost/floor mode) I will reconsider the HVAC Box R/R option and reopen a case with GM.

I did let my GM Customer Service Rep know that I am expecting a call or some form of contact within GM above her level based on the way my case was handled. I informed her that I would appreciate a survey or some form of communication tool to give GM some feedback. I will now wait for contact and hopefully that will happen. If so, then great, I just want to voice my dissatisfaction with GM. I will also voice my satisfaction with the way she did her best to try to coordinate this issue with my service manager and how helpful my service department was in tackling this issue. It appeared that she did not know much regarding this coolant issue. I really feel that I gave her more information and educated her more about this issue than her management did. Sadly, it appears that her management left her in the dark and I just can't imagine what she goes through some days on the phone with dissatisfied customers regarding the coolant issue. I am not sure how helpful "my voice" will be, but at least I am able to voice my frustration, concerns and what did work for me. If I don't receive a call or any form of contact from GM then I will know that apparently my case was not worthy of follow-up or feedback.

When my Cruze goes back in I will ask for pics throughout the process and post these pics so others can see what my service department did to seal the cowl area. If possible, I will shoot a few minutes of video and post.

I really like my Cruze and plan on keeping it. Thanks to my service department and other Cruze members on this forum for your suggestions, technical expertise and input.


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## ChuzCruze (Feb 9, 2012)

I brought my Cruze in for the antifreeze smell, a chirping blower motor on fan speed 1 and 2 (intermittent) and a squeaking steering wheel (intermittent). I was told that PI0935 didn't apply to my vehicle, that I have a bad coolant cap, so they ordered a new one. I am not too confident in this diagnosis since this is the fourth time I have brought it in for this condition. The blower motor wouldn't make the chirping noise of course, so they said they could take it apart and clean it, but I would have to pay for it. The squeaking steering wheel they said was a binding coupling and that they need to speak with GM's TAC hotline.

While it was in there they also found both axle seals leaking, so those are on order. 

I got home and went shopping and was stopped by a man who wanted to know what I thought of the Cruze and if I had any problems with it. My response "Well I have had the front struts and springs replaced, although a small number of Cruzes had this issue due to a supplier problem. I have a coolant smell inside and outside of the vehicle that they haven't been able to fix yet. The steering wheel squeaks and they are looking into it. The blower motor chirps and they haven't been able to hear it because it doesn't happen all of the time. The left rear outer door handle was loose when I bought it, but they fixed that. Now the front axle seals are leaking and they are on order." His response "Wow, is that a 2011 with over 100,000 miles or something?" Me "No, its a 2012 with just over 25,000 miles!" His response "Wow, ALL those problems and it only has 25,000 miles on it. I am telling my wife we should look into other cars. She wants one, but now I am not so sure."


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

Check out the 2013 Corolla's, great little car with that Toyota reliability and dependability. Plus you can get a top of the line S model for about the same price as an LS Cruze lol


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

The Snorolla isn't the car I would get-at least wait a few months for the 2014 model to come out.
I would recommend the Impreza or VW Golf


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> Check out the 2013 Corolla's, great little car with that Toyota reliability and dependability. Plus you can get a top of the line S model for about the same price as an LS Cruze lol


That's because it's an 8 year old car. It's been something about that long since it last had an update. It's cheap because it's antiquated, and reliability and dependability was something people proved in the 90s, but with the fall of the Japanese Yen, Toyota and Honda as well as other imports have been forced to use the same vendors that the American car companies use. I have a buddy who works at a Firestone that gets all sorts of imports (toyotas included) in for work replacing shocks, balljoints, tie rods, wheel bearings and axles just to name a few at under 50k. 

The market has changed. Toyota and Honda don't make the most reliable cars anymore, and you don't have to change your oil every 3,000 miles on a new car.


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

It was updated last in 2009, and if you have a car that is selling really well, why go and do drastic changes to it? The Corolla is the best selling car in the world for a reason, but I wouldn't expect a GM fanboi to acknowledge that fact. According to you, Toyota and Honda don't make the most reliable care, who does then?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> It was updated last in 2009, and if you have a car that is selling really well, why go and do drastic changes to it? The Corolla is the best selling car in the world for a reason, but I wouldn't expect a GM fanboi to acknowledge that fact. According to you, Toyota and Honda don't make the most reliable care, who does then?


Explain to me what *significant *improvements were made in 2009. As far as I could tell, they were minor.

Why go and "do" drastic changes to it? Well, you can start with the fact that every other company around it is overtaking it in fuel economy, comfort, standard features, and safety. 

As for myself being a "fanboi" (I don't speak teenager), I do very much like the Cruze, but what caused you to give me an attitude about it is beyond me. If you think the Corolla is so great, go sell your Cruze and buy one. I'm sure you'll find it to be a far better car, inside and out... I also own a Jaguar (project car). My father owns a 2010 Tacoma, which I helped him buy. My mother owns a 2008 Saturn Vue, which uses a Honda powertrain and is also a car I helped her buy. So much for me being a "fanboi."

As for who makes the more reliable *car*, I don't know at this point. I can probably research who *made *the most reliable car 10 years ago, but the reliability of a brand new car is, as always, yet to be determined. I'll be able to answer that question 10 years from now. The true reliability of the Cruze is yet to be determined, but given the average Joe will save about $1400 (I'll personally save just over to $3000) in gas per 100k miles driving a Cruze over a Corolla (based on a 29.7mpg average for the Corolla and a 33.1mpg average for the Cruze as reported by Fuelly.com at $4 per gallon) while driving a much more comfortable, much better handling, MUCH safer (Read: Cruze vs Corolla), and much better equipped (standard features) car, I think I'll be ok spending a little money on repairs and waiting on GM to release a fix for a grease smell issue that I can only smell in the winter when my heater is on. 

Oh, look. The flowers have started blooming. It's April. I guess I don't need the heater anymore.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

Tkchumly said:


> I have found the district reps to be very condescending, in a polite way, and also powerless. After asking to initiate a buyback the conversation with a district rep ended in him telling me to "just use my heat less until if/when GM decides to release a fix." Also "GM doesn't want to pay for a rental car until there is a fix." I've found the only people who are only slightly on your side, may be the dealership (or your lawyer).


That was my exact experience with the District factory rep too. He was rude, condescending and kept reminding me how the Cruze is the best selling car in the US and I was the only one in the world with my particular problem. I asked about getting a rental before I could turn my car in since the smell was really bad at the time (and was told by the phone CS rep not to take it in for any more service) and he made some smart ass comment about "since we are already giving you 21 grand what's $500.00 more." I just said screw it and drove with my windows cracked for 2 weeks before everything was processed and I turned my car in. He was a bozo. The phone CS reps were very good- the district factory rep was rude and cocky. He never called me when he promised to either- I always had to get a hold of him- and that was giving him 2-3 days extra after he told me he would call. I also still don't understand why I could only get a car from the Chevy dealer I originally bought my Cruze from. I would be driving a Buick Verano if that was not the case but instead asked for the $$ and got a car from another manufacturer. I will never deal with GM again- not because of the Cruze, not because of the phone CS reps I dealt with, not because of my dealer (they tried very hard for me), it is because of my experience with the district rep. I did not deserve to be treated like that by him and will not get a GM again knowing that is how their upper management treats their customers.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> I did not deserve to be treated like that by him and will not get a GM again knowing that is how their upper management treats their customers.


District case specialists are upper management? Not trying to be rude here, but that's like calling Master technicians at dealerships upper management. Upper management is upper management with a real manager job title who have other supervisors and managers under them. District case managers are the equivalent of level 2 support when level 1 can't answer your question using the Q&A papers they're given and you need someone to work with your dealer for you. If they call themselves "case managers," that's because the manage cases, not employees.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

I went through 2 levels of case managers. The second level case manager referred me to the district factory rep. That was through phone customer service support. The factory rep deals directly with dealers in a particular area and they work to troubleshoot, fix issues at the dealership level with customers. They also authorize buy backs. Dealers do not have any involvement with repurchases any longer, it is strictly through GM and the district factory reps. I know what I am talking about- I've been through it. I assumed that someone that deals directly with customers face to face would have some type of customer service skills. He also reminded me how many years he has been with GM and if that is the kind of employee GM continues to support then it reflects bad on GM.

Your work here has been very valuable and helpful to people here and we all appreciate it, but quite frankly you remind me of the parents I see that refuse to believe their kids are not angels all the time and are quick to always blame the messenger. If you support GM you should be troubled by comments like mine about my experience with the company instead of being quick to attack anyone who has a different opinion or a negative experience.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> Your work here has been very valuable and helpful to people here and we all appreciate it, but quite frankly you remind me of the parents I see that refuse to believe their kids are not angels all the time and are quick to always blame the messenger. If you support GM you should be troubled by comments like mine about my experience with the company instead of being quick to attack anyone who has a different opinion or a negative experience.


I'm glad it's not just me. Any little "negative", anti GM comment that is made, he has a comeback to support them. I wonder if he even realizes how ridiculous it sounds after a while.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> I went through 2 levels of case managers. The second level case manager referred me to the district factory rep. That was through phone customer service support. The factory rep deals directly with dealers in a particular area and they work to troubleshoot, fix issues at the dealership level with customers. They also authorize buy backs. Dealers do not have any involvement with repurchases any longer, it is strictly through GM and the district factory reps. I know what I am talking about- I've been through it. I assumed that someone that deals directly with customers face to face would have some type of customer service skills. He also reminded me how many years he has been with GM and if that is the kind of employee GM continues to support then it reflects bad on GM.
> 
> Your work here has been very valuable and helpful to people here and we all appreciate it, but quite frankly you remind me of the parents I see that refuse to believe their kids are not angels all the time and are quick to always blame the messenger. If you support GM you should be troubled by comments like mine about my experience with the company instead of being quick to attack anyone who has a different opinion or a negative experience.


I would support comments like yours, but my understanding is that you've given up. I have tried helping people with your "GM be damned" attitude here before and found it to be a waste of my time.

I get what you're saying, but you are telling me that upper management doesn't care about customers when all you dealt with were case specialists. Let's at least be honest and factual.

You see me as "that parent" whose kid can do no wrong, and I see you as that customer who has made up his mind and will never buy another GM car again. Do you even own a Cruze anymore? I will admit GM isn't perfect and they have made mistakes with the Cruze, but from your previous posts, I doubt you will admit thay GM is not the devil. Re-read your post. 

I don't attack those with a negative experience *because of that negative experience.* In fact, you don't have the slightest clue how many people I've dealt with directly and put them in contact with people at GM because of a negatice experience. You and some others didn't just have a negative experience. You had a negative experience and are dead set on telling everyone about it, even twisting words to make it sound worse. District specialists are not upper management. I happen to know some upper management, but you never came to me asking me for help. 

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

"I'll just turn off the heater, no more smell" That's the kind of remark that will have Government Motors keep putting off potentially hazardous problems, since people like this just don't expect the manufacturer to fix the issue I guess. I just call out the "Fanboys" as I see them, sorry. By the way, I didn't know 26 years old was still a teenager. Now that I think about we should have not bailed out GM and just let them die off, would have saved alot of us the headache.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would support comments like yours, but my understanding is that you've given up. I have tried helping people with your "GM be damned" attitude here before and found it to be a waste of my time.
> 
> I get what you're saying, but you are telling me that upper management doesn't care about customers when all you dealt with were case specialists. Let's at least be honest and factual.
> 
> ...


Negative? My comment here was to support someone else with the same experience as me and to let them know they are not alone. It is also my hope GM reads these and gets their act together. I was treated great by most people associated with GM, it is my experience with the factory rep that tainted my views. Did I say all of GM are a bunch of bozos? No I didn't. I suggest you reread my post. You really just proved my point in your response.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

blackcruzelt said:


> "I'll just turn off the heater, no more smell" That's the kind of remark that will have Government Motors keep putting off potentially hazardous problems, since people like this just don't expect the manufacturer to fix the issue I guess. I just call out the "Fanboys" as I see them, sorry. By the way, I didn't know 26 years old was still a teenager. Now that I think about we should have not bailed out GM and just let them die off, would have saved alot of us the headache.


I didn't say "I'll just turn off the heater." I said, I don't need the heater anymore, which means it is not a pressing matter for me when the smell is produced only when the heater is on. If you had the smell in your car and it was bad enough, GM has a PI out on this that you can have performed to replace the grease, but some people are acting like this is the worst thing in the world. It's not. I'm not trying to downplay the situation, but seriously, if you don't need to use the heater, you can wait until GM has a "permanent fix" later this year. I put that in quotes because frankly, I'm not 100% up to speed on what they're working on. This is all assuming that the PI we have stickied in this section of the forum is not a permanent fix. My understanding is that it is effective at solving the problem. I'm referring to this post with regard to a "permanent fix":

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...t-high-heat-engine-post185491.html#post185491

You don't have to be a teenager in order to talk like one. This is not at all intended as an insult, but when you use words like "boi," it's hard to take you seriously. I call it like I see it too. I do expect GM to fix it, and when they did come out with a solution, I made it a sticky on the forum. In fact, I have a support thread for this "antifreeze" smell, which I personally created and stickied at the top for all to see. Please explain how my shining a light on GM's problem makes me a fanboy. 

I'd like to make clear that it appears the issue with most if not all of these complaints stems from the odor emitted by the grease in the HVAC box. As such, this is not a potentially hazardous problem. It smells bad. Might as well smell like eggs, stinky feet, or an outhouse. 

I closed up the first "antifreeze smell" thread because it was getting too long and went way off track, and for some reason, I see this turning into the same thing.

Please keep the rest of this thread on track, and refer to the initial post if you are unsure of this thread's purpose.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> Negative? My comment here was to support someone else with the same experience as me and to let them know they are not alone. It is also my hope GM reads these and gets their act together. I was treated great by most people associated with GM, it is my experience with the factory rep that tainted my views. Did I say all of GM are a bunch of bozos? No I didn't. I suggest you reread my post. You really just proved my point in your response.


You blatantly stated that you swore off GM as a result of one factory rep, which you called "upper management," using that specific choice of words to imply that *GM* doesn't care about its customers.

I did re-read your post, and I also re-read mine. I was perfectly clear and polite in pointing out that a case specialist is *not *upper management, and I have no interest in discussing that matter further.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You blatantly stated that you swore off GM as a result of one factory rep, which you called "upper management," using that specific choice of words to imply that *GM* doesn't care about its customers.
> 
> I did re-read your post, and I also re-read mine. I was perfectly clear and polite in pointing out that a case specialist is *not *upper management, and I have no interest in discussing that matter further.


Once again, you proved my point. You have no empathy for how we are being treated. Instead you try hard to point out some minor fault and totally ignore an issue which is negative towards GM. Whoever you consider to be upper management or not, it is not right for that person to treat customers that way. For some reason you seem to overlook that in most posts like mine.


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> District case specialists are upper management? Not trying to be rude here, but that's like calling Master technicians at dealerships upper management. Upper management is upper management with a real manager job title who have other supervisors and managers under them. District case managers are the equivalent of level 2 support when level 1 can't answer your question using the Q&A papers they're given and you need someone to work with your dealer for you. If they call themselves "case managers," that's because the manage cases, not employees.


When the dealer's service manager, with 20+ years on the job, has to call the GM rep so he can be TOLD WHAT TO DO NEXT, knowing full well that a new heater core is not going to fix the car based on two others he has already done, then I believe he was talking to upper management. Even Alicia, the level 2 case rep on the phone, told me the GM rep that my dealer talked to was one of her bosses.

You would be well advised to stop supporting GM, and it's dismal effort at best, to take care of me and dozens of other owners with a legitimate problem. Your responses seem foolish to me.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

dby2011 said:


> Once again, you proved my point. You have no empathy for how we are being treated. Instead you try hard to point out some minor fault and totally ignore an issue which is negative towards GM. Whoever you consider to be upper management or not, it is not right for that person to treat customers that way. For some reason you seem to overlook that in most posts like mine.


I'll make this simple. Did you ask me for help? No. Therefore, I did not help. Have others asked me for help? Yes. I went out of my way to help them, and they were satisfied with the results. You have quite a nerve telling me I have no empathy for how you were treated. I would have cared if you had told me about it right then and there, but instead, I find out about it later as you're twisting the story to make it sound worse, so exactly what do you want me to do? Go to GM and demand that someone apologize to you? 

I haven't ignored it. Believe me, I'm not blind. I've read over it a dozen times now. I never said I disagreed with you. What you fail to overlook is the fact that threads like this are intended to help people get resolutions to their problems and discuss the status of service issues. When these threads turn into a whole lot of GM bashing and repetitive complaining, I feel like I have to remind people what this forum is for. If your posts serve to do nothing but discourage people, then you need to ask yourself what your real purpose here is. 

Personally, all boils down to this: I see no way that I can help you, because:



You've made up your mind. One case specialist soured your experience with an entire company and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. 
You did not come to me for help. You never even indicated you wanted help. All you indicated is that you will never buy another car from GM again 
So, excuse me if I'm not acting empathetic for your situation. There are quite a lot of people on this board who I help on a daily basis that are far more cooperative and receptive of my help who I can help with far less effort. 



upstater said:


> When the dealer's service manager, with 20+ years on the job, has to call the GM rep so he can be TOLD WHAT TO DO NEXT, knowing full well that a new heater core is not going to fix the car based on two others he has already done, then I believe he was talking to upper management. Even Alicia, the level 2 case rep on the phone, told me the GM rep that my dealer talked to was one of her bosses.
> 
> You would be well advised to stop supporting GM, and it's dismal effort at best, to take care of me and dozens of other owners with a legitimate problem. Your responses seem foolish to me.


No, he's not talking to upper management. That is an uninformed speculation on your part, which you then took off with and formed your own conjectures. Do you know who your service manager calls? Do you know who his GM rep is? Service engineering. Service engineering is not upper management. You're talking about a company that employs *two hundred thousand people*, and you're telling me that your service manager has a direct line to upper management to ask for technical guidance?

The service engineering department is responsible for developing solutions to problems with a large number of GM cars. Sometimes, service engineering will work directly with dealerships on a case by case basis, but sometimes, customer service will work with the dealership instead. The problem is that customer service knows only as much as they are given formally from service engineering. You can replace a hundred heater cores, but if you don't have a coolant leak, you're wasting your time. I've known for a while that there are three potential sources of "coolant/antifreeze"-related issues with this car:



Antifreeze leaking around the bolts of the water pump. Replacement of water pump resolves the problem. Symptom is an antifreeze smell and a slow drop in overflow tank level over time. 
Excessive antifreeze venting from the overflow tank due to it being over-filled or due to excessive venting by poor design. Solution is a PI from GM that involves routing a hose underneath the car and adding some seals to the cowl and hood. This has been inneffective in resolving the issue with the odor, which leads me to strongly believe that the problem is actually (or also caused by): 
Grease in the HVAC box. Being a glycol-based lubricant, it emits an odor when heated that can be of considerable discomfort. I'd argue it may even be similar to a litmus test; an element that some may be far more sensitive to than others. That last bit is purely speculative, but what is not speculative is the fact that those who have had their dealerships service the HVAC box discovered very clearly that the lubricant is the source of the smell, and they have either wiped off excessive lubricant (resulting in a reduction of the odor emitted), or they have replaced it entirely per the PI noted in a sticky in this section, resulting in a complete and total resolution of the problem. 

You're not the only one who came in here frustrated that their dealership was an incompetent mess that can't navigate their own service manual to find recent service procedures. It is also not my *job *to take care of you. I am not employed by GM or this forum and I don't receive nor ask for any compensation for what I do here. I am an adminstrator first and formost; who is tasked with maintaining and organizing the forum's flow of information. I am a moderator second, who is tasked with making sure that threads serve their purpose without being thrown too far off-topic, ensuring that members follow the forum rules, and ensuring that a peaceful environment exists for the sole purpose of allowing people to find the information they need to resolve their problems. Lastly, I am a random guy with an IT-related full time job that has a relationship with GM through which I can bring issues to their attention and get members who are particularly distraught and in need of help some special attention. I do this to help people, and it seems some people need reminding of that. If your (generally speaking, not you directly) attitude intentionally makes my job and that of my staff more difficult, I will simply not waste my time. 

The only reason I can do this is because I can type ~130 words per minute with high accuracy and can respond to complaints and send e-mails and assist members with their needs; something I can guarantee you would turn into a full time job for your average typist. Having said that, I will continue doing what I'm doing on behalf of this community, and you would be well advised to consider my responsibilities and take a second thought at your accusation that I am defending GM.

I have all the time in the world to help people who genuinely want help, but I have absolutely no time to waste on people whose sole purpose on this forum is to complain or bad-mouth GM, because that just makes my job more difficult. I said it before and I'll say it again: this is a community; not a nursery. I'm not going to bend over backwards and treat people like children with a temper tantrum just so they would be happy. There's nothing wrong with posting about a bad experience you had and venting your frustration, but when I start to know someone as the guy who complains all the time about the bad experience he had with his Cruze, there's a problem with that.



Now that I have that off my chest, I'll refer everyone to the original post in this thread:



> *This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the antifreeze smell* that some of us are experiencing with our Cruze. *You are free to complain or vent frustration, but not free to do so excessively or to troll*. I understand that for many of you, this is a big concern and a huge inconvenience, but *in the interest of everyone's sanity and of maintaining a positive environment, keep your complaints limited*. Believe me when I say *we've heard them already, in every possible variety you can imagine. *
> 
> To be clear, this thread is not for the reporting of your problem, but for the discussion of the problem, its nature, GM's progress with a fix, and any other related topics. If you wish to report this problem, I have created a thread that GM is watching: Antifreeze Smell Support. Please read and understand the original post in that thread before posting.
> 
> *Thank you for your cooperation.*


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

The answer to your question, way up in the beginning of your manifesto, is yes. He is the same area service rep that was on the job when I was a Chevrolet dealer. My service manager had spoken to him a number of times. I did not use his name for fear of violating some Cruzetalk rule.

It seems to me that you act less like a Cruze owner and more of a GM mole at times. 

It is unfortunate that this site's primary function for me is to gather information to use against GM as it pertains to inferior products. That is not why I joined. THEY caused that shift in attitude.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

upstater said:


> The answer to your question, way up in the beginning of your manifesto, is yes. He is the same area service rep that was on the job when I was a Chevrolet dealer. My service manager had spoken to him a number of times. I did not use his name for fear of violating some Cruzetalk rule.
> 
> It seems to me that you act less like a Cruze owner and more of a GM mole at times.
> 
> It is unfortunate that this site's primary function for me is to gather information to use against GM as it pertains to inferior products. That is not why I joined. THEY caused that shift in attitude.


It is not at all my concern what your impression is of what I *act *like. You are not the first to think I _act _like a GM mole, and you certainly will not be the last, but it is almost comical that those accusations are only made in this current thread and the first "Antifreeze Smell" thread. Those who have been far more active than you understand very well why I'm here.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but you don't first insult someone, then ask them for help and expect it to be well-received. 



> You would be well advised to stop supporting GM, and it's dismal effort at best, to take care of me and dozens of other owners with a legitimate problem. Your responses seem foolish to me.


I am not customer service, so I am not here to serve you. Let me make that clear: I offer my help voluntarily and have no obligation or responsibility to anyone on this forum. If you want my help, you may ask for it politely and with as little emotional charge as possible; you don't accuse me of being a mole for GM and then proceed to "advise" me on what I should be doing instead. 

You can find the full list of CruzeTalk forum rules here:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/6-newbie-central/9056-cruzetalk-forum-guidelines-rules.html

It is indeed unfortunate that this site is being used to gather information to use against GM, but if it helps someone get an issue resolved, then it will have served a good purpose. This site exists to provide you with that information regardless of what you should choose to do with it.

I don't know the specific steps that were taken to attempt to resolve an issue in your car, but should you want my help, you can start by outlining your issue and the specific steps that were taken to diagnose and attempt to fix the problem (or point me to a post where you had already done so). Should you reach a point where your dealership and their contact is unable to help you, I can get you in contact with someone who is likely to be able to. I make no guarantees as to the outcome, but I will try my best.


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

No thank you. I have professional help working for me as we speak.


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## EcoDave (Mar 7, 2013)

....




I think my car has the HVAC grease smell problem too, it's getting worse as last night was the first time I could both smell something funny *& taste it in my mouth after I got home from work.. 
*
Hopefully my dealer knows the fix. I hate explaining things.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

upstater said:


> No thank you. I have professional help working for me as we speak.


I've already looked over all of your posts for the last five weeks, and with the exception of *one*, you have done nothing but complain and argue with people. Furthermore, you clearly stated in the above quoted post that you do not want help. As far as I'm concerned, you have no further reason to be here.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't have the smell anymore......great gas mileage and a spacious trunk Back to the coolant smell......

My parts are in and my Cruze is going back in tomorrow for the resealing procedure. Will try to get pics of the resealing process to post.


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## Puller (Oct 15, 2012)

Well for us that still have the smell what do we do? We have had our cruze in for a heater core replacement that was leaking a little. It still has a smell although better but not fixed? We took it back in and the dealer said there was nothing else they could do as they spoke with Gm and they've done everything suggested. They said the smell was faint and we must have super sensitive noses (I had to chuckle about that).


I am at a loss as now the temps are warming up and know as soon as winter rolls around the wife will be complaining again (not good in my world). I mentioned the HVAC grease but they said that there is no fix and its certainly not my job to hound these guys to do there job? 


GM customer service where are you? You were quick to get my information but haven't been helping me through this situation very well? I'm not bashing but its a little ridiculous having to take a vehicle back this many times to get it fixed. We like the car for its use but who wants to ride in a stinky vehicle when the heat is on? The 4 different loaner vehicles didn't smell on the interior (impala's & malibu's) nor do any of my other vehicles I own while the heat is running? 


So we have many hours of running the car back & forth to the dealer with no fix in site! Not happy as I bought a new vehicle to drive not worry about my next dealer visit and how I can fit it in to my busy life.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Puller said:


> Well for us that still have the smell what do we do? We have had our cruze in for a heater core replacement that was leaking a little. It still has a smell although better but not fixed? We took it back in and the dealer said there was nothing else they could do as they spoke with Gm and they've done everything suggested. They said the smell was faint and we must have super sensitive noses (I had to chuckle about that).
> 
> 
> I am at a loss as now the temps are warming up and know as soon as winter rolls around the wife will be complaining again (not good in my world). I mentioned the HVAC grease but they said that there is no fix and its certainly not my job to hound these guys to do there job?
> ...


Send me a PM with your contact information and I will forward it on to my contact at GM.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Puller said:


> Well for us that still have the smell what do we do? We have had our cruze in for a heater core replacement that was leaking a little. It still has a smell although better but not fixed? We took it back in and the dealer said there was nothing else they could do as they spoke with Gm and they've done everything suggested. They said the smell was faint and we must have super sensitive noses (I had to chuckle about that).
> 
> 
> I am at a loss as now the temps are warming up and know as soon as winter rolls around the wife will be complaining again (not good in my world). I mentioned the HVAC grease but they said that there is no fix and its certainly not my job to hound these guys to do there job?
> ...


I've been working with my service manager fine-tuning PI0740 as I had significant engine compartment vapors coming into my cabin. We have finally been able to seal the engine compartment and tomorrow I am going in for the resealing procedures (as we found additional gaps in the lower grille cowl seal). It appears that I have both issues--engine compartment and HVAC box, but for now it appears that the HVAC lube is minimal and I can buy some time (good weather and my warranty is good through another winter spell) before heading into the dashboard. I know how frustrating this is, but my personal experience was building a relationship with my service manager and working together to work through this issue. I am going to speculate the reason why PI0740 has not worked for everyone (and initially not for me) is that the sealing procedure was not adequate. I do think GM should go back and review the PI and make some additional changes to ensure a proper seal around the cowl area. It appears that I will be able to get some pics of my sealing process when my Cruze goes back in tomorrow. If, so, I will post the pics so others can view how my cowl area was sealed and what worked for me.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Completed the clean-up/resealing process of PI0740. First, I want to point out that this trip was to go in and clean up the area since 3M Window Weld Ribbon Sealer was applied outside cowl areas (not outlined in PI0740) to help seal gaps that were found with a light source. Additionally, two new cowl grille panels, surge tank and pressure cap were replaced. We did not anticipate any changes (complete removal of the smell in the cabin based on the lube issue in the HVAC box) while completing this work, but did anticipate complete sealing of the engine compartment to rid of coolant smell vapors seeping into the cabin which was confirmed. We confirmed from the last trip (sealing the gaps discovered) that it appears that my Cruze has both issues--engine compartment vapors entering the cabin and HVAC lube causing the additional smell. As I posted these last few weeks, I always had an antifreeze smell in my cabin since I purchased the vehicle. After working closely with my service manager we were able to narrow down areas around the cowl grille panels that required additional sealing and seal out the coolant vapors from entering the cabin. So, this trip was to clean-up, reseal the engine compartment and replace my surge tank and pressure cap (per my request). My HVAC box arrived and was setting on the shelf, but since I opted out at this time to have PI0935 completed we did not open the box (otherwise I would of shot a few pics). My service manager will return it for someone else to complete PI0935 on their Cruze. I did confirm that the part number on the HVAC case assembly received for my Cruze was the part number identified on the PI (Part# WPC 710).









Old cowl grille panels removed and cowl area cleaned up.









PI0740 Right seal installed with 3M sealer.









PI0740 Left seal installed with 3M sealer.









3M sealer applied to metal flange (red line) to help seal cowl area when new cowl grille panels are installed.









Another pic of PI0740 seal installed with 3M sealer.









3M sealer applied along edge of metal flange. This procedure not outlined in PI0740. This is where the additional gaps were located with a light source. When the cowl grille was last put on the seal was inspected and serviceable, but when mated to the metal flange it did not seal as it was designed. It appeared to seal by sight and touch, but with a light source gaps were identified.









Another pic of 3M sealer applied along edge of metal flange.









Look carefully at these two panels. Note that the seals (outlined in red) are attached in two different locations. We are not sure why the seals were arranged and attached in two different locations. The new panel installed on my Cruze today has the seal moved inward from the edge that makes contact with the metal flange. I guess this is a question for the supplier and GM.









Again, look carefully at the routing of the seals on the old/new panel. Whatever the case with both panels it could be that it doesn't matter where the seals are located as long as the seals are positioned to seal as intended. What I do know is that my service department sealed the edge of the metal flange with 3M (where the old seal ran on my old panel) before installing the new panel. So, I have a 3M seal on the metal flange edge and the cowl seal on the new panel is located behind the 3M sealer unless both 3M and original attached seal were aligned along the edge of the metal flange. If that was the case then both seals made contact and sealed during final cowl panel installation.















New surge tank, cap and panels installed.









Removed surge tank where tube is attached with tape.















Old tank with tape hose removed. New tank/cap installed.

I did take the Cruze out and drove several miles tonight switching the mode settings and fan speeds to confirm that I had two issues--engine vapors and HVAC lube. Mode settings are clear except defrost/floor which was the case prior to this clean-up/reseal procedure. With heater off I confirmed that cabin was clear of engine compartment vapors. It is interesting to note that when I lifted my hood after driving several miles for an extended period of time that there was a noticeable difference in coolant smell under the hood. It appeared to be less of a coolant smell and this was not the case prior too the tank/pressure cap replacement. So, that is good news at this time. It appears that replacing the surge tank and cap helped reduce the coolant smell under the hood. I am taking a road trip next week and will continue to monitor the cabin and report any findings that may vary from what I just posted.

It appears that we have successfully sealed the engine compartment which is keeping the coolant smell out of the cabin and now odor free. The next step will be to R/R the HVAC box to rid of the last faint smell I have when operating the heater on the defrost/floor setting mode. I will schedule the HVAC box R/R later this year.

Hopefully, this posting will help understand the sealing process. Should GM review this sealing procedure? My opinion it would be sound management to go back and re-look at the procedure to ensure that the sealing process is valid and reliable. In my case it took 5 visits and working together with my service manager to narrow the sealing process so it appeared to work and be effective. Should the surge tank have the tube attached to reroute the vapors? In my case it appears that the smell was stronger with the tube attached. I guess there is a possibility that my old pressure cap wasn't functioning as designed???? After replacing the tank and cap I now have a minimal coolant smell under the hood after driving (wouldn't think it was a tank issue, but possibly where the cap seats when closed.) The new cap does have a "yellow circle" around the top, but not sure why this is. Possibly just a suppliers design, or identifying the cap as a newer design???

Oops, incorrect info on attached thumbnail--disregard attached thumbnail


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Love the write-up and pics. One question though, it appears your cabin air intake is on the passenger side of the car, which is the opposite side from the holes in the grate that you removed and from the coolant tank. It makes more sense to me to have it on the passenger side since that's where the cabin air filter is located.

I also noticed you said that you have less coolant smell in the engine bay after the surge tank & cap were replaced? What is the coolant level? If the coolant level is at the "cold" point one rib below the seam between the top and bottom parts of the tank, this makes me think you also had a bad tank and/or pressure cap. Did your dealership put the florescent dye in the coolant? It really makes evidence of any coolant vapor pressure release stand out on the tank's vent channel.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> Love the write-up and pics. One question though, it appears your cabin air intake is on the passenger side of the car, which is the opposite side from the holes in the grate that you removed and from the coolant tank. It makes more sense to me to have it on the passenger side since that's where the cabin air filter is located.
> 
> I also noticed you said that you have less coolant smell in the engine bay after the surge tank & cap were replaced? What is the coolant level? If the coolant level is at the "cold" point one rib below the seam between the top and bottom parts of the tank, this makes me think you also had a bad tank and/or pressure cap. Did your dealership put the florescent dye in the coolant? It really makes evidence of any coolant vapor pressure release stand out on the tank's vent channel.


The intake is right above the filter behind your glove-box It appears that outside air is drawn in from the drivers side and across the cowl grille through your filter behind the glove-box.

Less coolant smell in engine compartment--very much so. I have had the dye dropped in Dec--no stains/leaks found. I also have had two pressure checks--one in Dec, one in March with no stains/leaks noted. Both were complete with the old tank and cap. I have a few ideas on why my engine compartment has less coolant smell.

1. With the *old tank and cap* -- I did lower my coolant level as suggested from other members on this forum, but I did not notice any changes in my engine compartment vapors. 

2. With *new tank and cap* -- definitely a noticeable change--less smell. When I left the service department yesterday the coolant was at the cold mark (top of the arrow). Last night after driving it dropped approximately one mark. This morning when I checked it dropped a 1/2 of a mark after cooling overnight. So it has dropped approximately 1 1/2 marks below the arrow.

3. This is interesting since I replaced the tank and cap as I am thinking would of there now been a need to complete PI0740? With the current configuration including the old tank/cap--yes, but afterwards--possibly not. I am speculating that I did have either a bad tank, cap or both, but somehow went undetected. I did not ever notice a buildup or deposit of coolant around the hose fittings or the cap on the old tank. But something is definitely different now after installing a new tank and cap. After lifting the hood on my extended drive (approximately 75 miles interstate and in-town driving) there appeared to be virtually an absent of coolant smell under the hood.

4. Initially, the smell under my hood and in the cabin was very strong and undesirable. A quick recap on the sequence of events:
- Trip 1 - PI0740 completed with tape/tube - a noticeable change in the cabin, but still "stinky" and cabin appeared to not ever clear of the smell.
- Trips 2 and 3 - Cruze went in to confirm the sealing process - added some 3M sealer (at this time gaps with light source were undetected.) (a noticeable change--but nothing significant)
- Later - I used a light source in my garage and detected gaps along the lower cowl grille panels.
- Trip 4 - Cruze in the apply 3M sealer along outside lower cowl seal where light source identified gaps. (Significant change in cabin smell) Appeared to seal all vapors from engine compartment with faint smell in cabin only with heater on mode setting defrost/floor, fan speeds 1-2. This was the time that we were able to confirm we had a proper seal and PI0740 appeared to be successful. (Engine compartment still strong of coolant smell)
Trip 5 - Last trip to clean-up cowl area, reseal, and replace cowl grille panels, tank and cap. Cabin still clear from coolant vapors, still have faint smell in cabin only with heater on mode setting defrost/floor, fan speeds 1-2 (speculate HVAC box lube.) (Change was noticable under hood - virtually an absent of coolant smell--yes coolant smell is present, but change is significant.

So the question remains:

1. Are there possibly bad tanks/caps out there that are causing coolant vapors to be drawn through the intake. In my case it appears that could have been the situation and the smell was so strong that it "masked" my HVAC lube smell as that smell was faint, but noticeable, but difficult to identify based on the strong coolant smell I had in the cabin and only identifiable after sealing the engine compartment. After sealing the engine compartment I was able to distinguish the difference between the coolant vapors (from the engine compartment) and confirm I have also HVAC box lube issue.

So, for the Cruzes that have a strong engine compartment smell and a "stinky" cabin all or most of the time--do you replace the tank/cap first before performing PI0740?

Should the troubleshooting address the tank/cap along with PI0740 and PI0935? In my case it appears that maybe I could of "skipped" PI0740 as it appears my engine compartment vapors are now minimal compared to what I was initially experiencing (based on tank/cap replacement.)


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

Interesting observations regarding the underhood smell with both the new surge tank and the cap. Since you changed a multiple number of items at the same time, identifying the culprit; tank or cap, is hard to do. But, if you could get the old cap back from the dealer, you could take it one step further and drive your known route with new cap, and then drive the same route with the old cap. Finally, f/u again with the new cap. Can you recreate the prior underhood coolant smell (again) with the old cap and then have it go away or be greatly diminished with the new cap?

That would be some great problem solving that all of us with underhood smell could benefit from. I also believe the added ID ring on the cap indicates something, just don't know what.


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

I hope I did not miss this after reading the last posts, but when you say "old surge tank" and "new surge tank" do you have two different part numbers for it?


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Silver Streak said:


> Interesting observations regarding the underhood smell with both the new surge tank and the cap. Since you changed a multiple number of items at the same time, identifying the culprit; tank or cap, is hard to do. But, if you could get the old cap back from the dealer, you could take it one step further and drive your known route with new cap, and then drive the same route with the old cap. Finally, f/u again with the new cap. Can you recreate the prior underhood coolant smell (again) with the old cap and then have it go away or be greatly diminished with the new cap?
> 
> That would be some great problem solving that all of us with underhood smell could benefit from. I also believe the added ID ring on the cap indicates something, just don't know what.


Great thought. I do have the old cap and tank. I will install the old cap and see if there is a difference. Also I have the latitude to top my tank to the cold arrow and see if the smell increases. I will play around and see if I can duplicate an increase of coolant smell under the hood.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

gt_cristian said:


> I hope I did not miss this after reading the last posts, but when you say "old surge tank" and "new surge tank" do you have two different part numbers for it?


Sorry for the confusion. Tank was replaced, but both tanks have a different part number. 

Part# of tank removed -- 13256823
Part# of tank installed -- 13393368

Tanks appear to look identical. Both manufactured in Canada.

Part number located on top of tank behind pressure cap. May need light source to read.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Silver Streak said:


> Interesting observations regarding the underhood smell with both the new surge tank and the cap. Since you changed a multiple number of items at the same time, identifying the culprit; tank or cap, is hard to do. But, if you could get the old cap back from the dealer, you could take it one step further and drive your known route with new cap, and then drive the same route with the old cap. Finally, f/u again with the new cap. Can you recreate the prior underhood coolant smell (again) with the old cap and then have it go away or be greatly diminished with the new cap?
> 
> That would be some great problem solving that all of us with underhood smell could benefit from. I also believe the added ID ring on the cap indicates something, just don't know what.


I was able to duplicate a "heavy" coolant smell under the hood. Saturday, I checked the coolant level and it was just above the second mark from the bottom. There are others on this thread that have had their coolant at this mark and reported no smell. I swapped out my pressure caps (put the old cap back on) and drove in town and out on the interstate for approximately 25-30 minutes. Upon arriving home I pulled the Cruze into the garage, close the garage door and lifted the hood. I went into the house for approximately 3-5 minutes and returned to the garage with my wife (she has a great sense of smell). Upon reentering the garage we both immediately smelled coolant even before approaching the car. After the car cooled down I replaced the cap with the new pressure cap. Next day (Sunday) I rechecked the coolant tank (coolant level same as Saturday) and took the same route driving approximately the same time and upon returning home did the same thing (closed the garage door and lifted the hood going into the house.) Again, waited 3-5 minutes and both my wife and I went into the garage and was not able to smell any coolant until we literally got on top of the surge tank and had to "sniff" around before smelling hot coolant. So, it appears that for me this was a cap issue. If anyone else has any thoughts on this situation, please post your comments. Before, the installation of the new surge tank and pressure cap my garage always reeked of coolant for a few hours after parking. That is not the case with the new tank and cap. Obviously, I have a smell, but nothing like I had before. After my Cruze sets even for 30 minutes it does not reek up my garage like it previously did. 

I do want to clarify one more thing. Before the new surge tank and cap was installed I did remove some coolant from the tank to the second mark from the bottom. After driving for several miles and allowing the engine to get hot I still had a coolant smell in my garage. So, with the old tank and cap it did not matter what level my coolant was at, the smell appeared to be the same. If anyone else has any insight regarding this change, please post.

For now it is great not having a smelly garage or cabin from engine coolant anymore Just a few other things. I once again ask the question - 1) Was PI0740 necessary? Answer--with the coolant smell I previously had under the hood--yes. With the configuration I have at this time and the absence of coolant smell like before?--possibly no.

I choose to replace the surge tank to rid of the tape/tube. I also wanted to replace the cap to "rule out" any cap issues. I requested to keep my old tank and cap (now looking back was a wise choice.) When I went in to have them clean-up and reseal my cowl area, if I left the tank/cap alone I would have never stumbled upon this situation with many thanks to Silver Streak for posting the idea of changing out the caps to see what may surface. It now appears that my engine vapor issue may have only been a cap issue.

If that is true which one would of been less intrusive and cost effective?

1) Five trips to the service department to fine-tune PI0740 with labor and parts -- amount $$$$$$$

or

2) One trip to the parts department for a pressure cap - amount $11.62.

:smileystooges:


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Did your dealership ever pressure test your old cap? If so, what was the result? If it passed that tells me that the cap pressure valve is good but the seal around the cap's threads are bad. Maybe PI-0740, instead of modifying the tank's vent system should be replacing the cap.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> Did your dealership ever pressure test your old cap? If so, what was the result? If it passed that tells me that the cap pressure valve is good but the seal around the cap's threads are bad. Maybe PI-0740, instead of modifying the tank's vent system should be replacing the cap.


My service manager did inform me that they did pressure test the cap during trip #4. Apparently it passed as they did not consider replacing the cap. These are good points. First, I am convinced that the HVAC box lube is probably the main issue in most Cruzes. Second, maybe a few of us are dealing with something within the engine compartment. The more I think about this now is PI 0740 just masking another problem and really addressing the problem? In my case 0740 finally worked, but it appears that I possibly had a tank/cap issue which now looking back was PI 0740 necessary?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

After reading PI-0740 I've always felt that PI-0740 simply masks a coolant leak if it can't be found by looking at the common culprits of bad water pump or failed pressure valve in the cap. It doesn't address a cap/tank seal issue at all.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> After reading PI-0740 I've always felt that PI-0740 simply masks a coolant leak if it can't be found by looking at the common culprits of bad water pump or failed pressure valve in the cap. It doesn't address a cap/tank seal issue at all.


Exactly. It's a stupid solution that's not addressing the real problem.

Much like the shield hack-up.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Exactly. It's a stupid solution that's not addressing the real problem.
> 
> Much like the shield hack-up.


It wouldn't be the first time. When GM had engine fires with the 3800s from leaky valve cover gaskets, instead of replacing the gaskets (which would cost $10 or so more in parts and 2 hours of shop time), they had dealers install a ramp underneath the valve cover that would route dripping oil away from the exhaust manifolds and onto the floor instead.

I'll be quite pissed if they don't ever come up with a proper solution for this, and not because the issue itself affects me to a great degree, but simply because of the principle of it.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> After reading PI-0740 I've always felt that PI-0740 simply masks a coolant leak if it can't be found by looking at the common culprits of bad water pump or failed pressure valve in the cap. It doesn't address a cap/tank seal issue at all.


I think many of us now have a clear picture regarding this coolant/glycol-based smell. First and foremost, the postings of other members who have had the HVAC case assembly R/R clearly has shown that their issue was the case assembly. To me it appears that they never had an engine compartment issue. In my case I've had both, which appears to have been the pressure cap and the HVAC case assembly. I believe that PI0740 is only designed to keep the vapors from being drawn into the cabin (only if you have an engine compartment issue.). But, I also believe the PI is not effective the way it is written as there have been no postings of success other then my posting because my service department had to go above and beyond sealing additional areas for the PI to be successful.

So, if anyone has a "heavy" coolant smell under the hood then maybe it is worth the investment to carefully examine the surge tank and pressure cap. I think in my case a pocket of change and a cap R/R would of quickly resolved my engine compartment issue. I do have a faint glycol-based smell in the cabin now only when running the heater on the defrost/floor mode setting. So, now I am confident that my engine compartment smell is handled and I am now only dealing with the HVAC case assembly.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I think many of us now have a clear picture regarding this coolant/glycol-based smell. First and foremost, the postings of other members who have had the HVAC case assembly R/R clearly has shown that their issue was the case assembly. To me it appears that they never had an engine compartment issue. In my case I've had both, which appears to have been the pressure cap and the HVAC case assembly. I believe that PI0740 is only designed to keep the vapors from being drawn into the cabin (only if you have an engine compartment issue.). But, I also believe the PI is not effective the way it is written as there have been no postings of success other then my posting because my service department had to go above and beyond sealing additional areas for the PI to be successful.
> 
> So, if anyone has a "heavy" coolant smell under the hood then maybe it is worth the investment to carefully examine the surge tank and pressure cap. I think in my case a pocket of change and a cap R/R would of quickly resolved my engine compartment issue. I do have a faint glycol-based smell in the cabin now only when running the heater on the defrost/floor mode setting. So, now I am confident that my engine compartment smell is handled and I am now only dealing with the HVAC case assembly.


How involved is the R&R on the overflow tank cap? With how long it has been taking GM to find a proper fix for this, I am starting to wonder again if we need to be taking matters into our own hands. They seem to have acknowledged the HVAC smell issue and procured a PI to service it, but the under-hood antifreeze issue appears to be a cheap and simple fix that we might be better off tackling ourselves.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> How involved is the R&R on the overflow tank cap? With how long it has been taking GM to find a proper fix for this, I am starting to wonder again if we need to be taking matters into our own hands. They seem to have acknowledged the HVAC smell issue and procured a PI to service it, but the under-hood antifreeze issue appears to be a cheap and simple fix that we might be better off tackling ourselves.


I think many members on this forum have done a great job in trying to troubleshoot this issue and narrowing it down. I could of done the tank and cap myself, but since the car was in for resealing I just had them do it. If I was a GM engineer, I think I would step back and continue to assess two different issues (engine compartment and HVAC assembly case), but relook at PI0740 and if it is really something to pursue (as it appears not to fix the problem, but only to provide "comfort" in the cabin if it seals successfully.) I am speculating that the majority of the cases of this smell will be the HVAC case assembly. I do think we will find some "heavy under the hood coolant smell" Cruzes, but unsure how many are out there and where the problem lies. My guess is that they will be less then the HVAC issue. For the HVAC issue and my Cruze, I think if I had someone ride with me who is not aware of the lube issue that they would not even notice the smell (as it is faint at this time and only surfaces with the heater mode in the defrost/floor mode.)


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

PI-0740 does address the detection and fixing of other coolant leaks in the engine bay. It doesn't address the pressure cap and how it seals onto the surge tank, however. Rerouting via a tube is not a solution and won't work if the cap isn't properly seated on the surge tank.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Wednesday I will be heading out of town and when I return on Friday I will have had the opportunity to roll over 450+ miles. I will top the surge tank off to the add cold arrow before leaving and check under the hood during a fuel up and other stops to see if the smell increases. Will report my findings afterwards.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Kindof cool to see the progress for me.

The 'Add a Tube' fix for the tank just smacked of 'lets just redirect the problem from under the hood' without actually looking for why.
My recommendation of dropping the level in the tank was and continues to be based on a sound cap and a sound cap to tank interface.
This was only to provide more air in the tank in the hopes of staying away from the 20 psi threshold, preventing venting unless there really was a overheat condition.

That being said, I still have to wonder if the correct cap adaptor was used for testing and the same applies to the bottle adaptor.

BigSky's cap exchange obviously gives cause for pause and again makes me wonder if the dealer even really tested.

Chevy was having trouble getting water pumps right, why not a cap or bottle problem?
As I look at other manufacturers surge tanks I am noticing the area where the cap 'O' ring seals I am seeing the neck of the tank has a brass liner.
It appears that G.M. is awfully trusting of a plastic mold to get the seal area just right.

And, to add credibility to the discussion, some have had the problem almost to the point of severe.....others, mention a occasional wiff, while others, myself included, have never smelled a thing.
And, in my case, Chicago winters will and have had me running the heater and fan wide open......in theory, if it is a lubricant making the odor, I really think everyone should be experiencing this.

The only thing I did was watch the operating pressures at different tank coolant levels......but I did this planning on operating well below the full arrow.....Truly no need to have that much volume of additional liquid in a full cooling system IMO.

BigSky, fabulous follow through with photos.....I really have enjoyed your detective work but I'm sorry you have had to jump through so many hoops.

I guess we'll just keep pluggin till this is put to bed.....forever.

Rob


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Robby said:


> I still have to wonder if the correct cap adaptor was used for testing and the same applies to the bottle adaptor.
> 
> BigSky's cap exchange obviously gives cause for pause and again makes me wonder if the dealer even really tested.
> 
> BigSky, fabulous follow through with photos.....I really have enjoyed your detective work but I'm sorry you have had to jump through so many hoops.


I guess you never know what is happening with your vehicle when it is in the shop. We always hope that the technician doing the work is doing the best and thinking through the process as the work is happening step-by-step. I do feel that my service department really worked hard on trying to help me solve this issue. Even though I ended up doing what I did I think the information posted with the pics will be helpful in helping others have a better understanding of what I tackled and hopefully help if they are experiencing the same issues. I think this forum is full of great information and it wouldn't surprised me if GM and other dealerships are "tapping" in to stay updated with the changes and progress many of us are posting. This forum is a book of knowledge and getting better all the time. Maybe we are the "think tank" and I believe the information posted so far from many members provides get strategies to troubleshoot, assess, and evaluate what may be working and what is possibly not working.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I guess you never know what is happening with your vehicle when it is in the shop. We always hope that the technician doing the work is doing the best and thinking through the process as the work is happening step-by-step. I do feel that my service department really worked hard on trying to help me solve this issue. Even though I ended up doing what I did I think the information posted with the pics will be helpful in helping others have a better understanding of what I tackled and hopefully help if they are experiencing the same issues. I think this forum is full of great information and it wouldn't surprised me if GM and other dealerships are "tapping" in to stay updated with the changes and progress many of us are posting. This forum is a book of knowledge and getting better all the time. Maybe we are the "think tank" and I believe the information posted so far from many members provides get strategies to troubleshoot, assess, and evaluate what may be working and what is possibly not working.


You never fail to awe me with every post! I thought that I had patience in dealing with GM for 6+ months with my crappy shifting transmission and lack of acceleration at times with my 2011 Cruze LTZ RS, but compared to you, my patience paled! At least you got results- I got "operating as designed"! 

I think the LEAST GM should do for you is free oil/filter/tire rotations and maybe an unlimited warranty for as long as you own the Cruze! I think that YOU did more for them, than they did for you! How sad, if indeed, GM is "tapping into this forum to keep updated"! What they should have done is buy back cars like yours and proceed with their testing from that point instead of making YOU run back and forth to the dealership like you had nothing better to do!

My hat is off to you! I hope that next winter brings you fresh air and NO days of defroster use! I hope this is the end of your problems.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BSM, you continue to impress with your patience and perseverance. I know your service manager has a lot to do with your reporting and the two of you deserve a nice steak dinner on GM's tab!

I've been in Cuba for a week and am just getting back into this discussion. Reading through to your tank cap insight I got thinking about the tank to cap interface, and then Robby brought it up also. I think part of this multi-level problem could exist here. Robby, your thoughts on my ramblings might be helpful as I believe you are/were in an auto service role?

It is my understanding (assumption) that when a cooling system is pressure tested we replace the cap with one that has a pressure gauge attached, so pressure checking checks everything but the cap. Then when the cap is checked, it is placed in a fixture that represents the tank. What is never checked during this process is the seal between the cap and the tank… if this seal is not performing, the vented gasses will pass and vent through the tank vent just like they would if the cap was actually venting, but could happen at a much lower pressure.

BSM, you have already provided the before and after surge tank part numbers; would you happen to have before and after numbers for the caps?

Generally speaking, an 8-digit GM part number doesn't change unless there is a fit/form/function change. It very well could be that something has changed in the surge tank to improve the cap-to-tank seal? If my testing assumptions above are correct, the dealership cannot pressure test that part of the system.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Generally speaking, an 8-digit GM part number doesn't change unless there is a fit/form/function change. It very well could be that something has changed in the surge tank to improve the cap-to-tank seal? If my testing assumptions above are correct, the dealership cannot pressure test that part of the system.


GM also changes part numbers with model years. I discovered this when assembling the parts for my spare tire. The part numbers for 2011 and 2012 are different, even though the parts are identical.

If you assumption about the testing is correct, then PI-0740 is fundamentally flawed because not all the sources of DexCool leaks can be found by a dealership.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I took a look at both reservoir caps. Both have the same part # (13502353). I would question the seals or O-rings on my old cap. I took a closer look and it appears that both O-rings on my old cap have much more of a "flat" appearance then a "rounded" appearance. On my new cap both O-rings appear to be more "rounded" and protrude the edge of the sealing area for a much tighter seal. There is a small and large O-ring on the cap. I am not an O-ring expert, but in the military I worked with a lot of equipment in the hydraulic/pneumatic arena that I had to inspect and replace O-rings quite often. The condition of the O-rings on my old cap would most likely lead me to reject and replace if I were following the standards outlined with the technical orders I utilized while inspecting O-rings on equipment in the military. I am wondering if the O-rings on my old cap was the culprit? I highly suspect this would be the case. I wonder if the supplier may procure O-rings from different manufacturers when producing the caps? 

I topped my surge tank to the full cold mark and will report back if the smell increases after this 450+ mile road trip these next 3 days.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

My car was dropped off at the dealer on Tuesday morning. I just got a call from the service manager to tell me that they took my entire dash out (every last bolt), and just finished putting it back together. He did not tell me what they replaced, so I suspect we will soon find out. I will get an update from him tomorrow after the technician has a chance to drive my car to verify that there are no squeaks or rattles or anything.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Blue Angel?

Regarding your, tools used' question......look at Snap On tester #SVTS262C Pressure tester.
This is used in conjunction with two adaptors (I have a full set....many vehicles covered).
One adaptor mimics the portion of the cap that is screwed onto the surge tank and then the tester is attached......the tester is like a miniature air pump with a pump handle and attached gauge.
When on the surge tank, you pressure up to say 18lbs. and look for leakage at all joints and watch for a pressure loss......there should be no loss when testing a sound system.
I then attach the cap to a adaptor and that attaches to the tester.
This time, you pump the tester to try to exceed 20psi, the caps rated release pressure.

A good cap won't allow you to exceed 20psi and will hold that 20psi for a minimum of two minutes if operating as designed.

Was that the answer to your question?.....sorry if I rattled on too much,

Rob


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> My car was dropped off at the dealer on Tuesday morning. I just got a call from the service manager to tell me that they took my entire dash out (every last bolt), and just finished putting it back together. He did not tell me what they replaced, so I suspect we will soon find out. I will get an update from him tomorrow after the technician has a chance to drive my car to verify that there are no squeaks or rattles or anything.


Yikes, the thought of "every last bolt" makes me want to jump in my Cruze and get it to the service department ASAP for the HVAC case assembly R/R. Yep, I'm right behind you and others and will be pulling in later this year to get the "every last bolt" secured.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

Just thought i'd update.

the dealer has had my car for 3 weeks and 2 days and i just picked her up tonight.


She was in for an oil leak, coolant smell in cabin and loud blower motor.

Blower was fixed, hasn't made any noise.
Oil leak was cause by my piston ring lands being....gone
Coolant smell they said was fixed with the engine (even though the old engine had a new water pump in it)

so on my drive home the car feels great, I'd been in a 1.8 auto for 3 weeks so it felt good to be back in my 6mt eco!

at least until my radio shut off, I lost power steering and all boost, with a service stabilitrac warning on the dash.... 2 times on my 4km drive home. No coolant smell though....yet!

I had to drop my little one off at her moms so i packed her up, dropped her off, then drove around like a madman to get the car hot so i could turn the heater on to see if the coolant smell was fixed. after a few more stabiltrac warnings and loss of boost i turned on the heater and felt dizzy. physically sick from the smell of dexcool. 

i'm sitting at home typing, dizzy, I can taste dexcool in my mouth. it's not good! 


car goes back tomorrow again.


I talked to the dealer owner yesterday about a buyback, and he said they would only do it if they can't fix the problem. and even then It's only a percentage of what new value was!

so i'm trying to get an enhanced trade in value and a 'very' good deal on an ATS 2.0t.

I'll post again when they've replaced more parts and the smell is there still.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Wow, that it would be it for GM with me if I were going through all of this crap.
I hope it works out for you guys and GM should get sued, IMO


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

It baffles me how different the service is for Canadian Cruze owners than it is for US Cruze owners.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It baffles me how different the service is for Canadian Cruze owners than it is for US Cruze owners.


It's not just GM service. The US has one of the most customer friendly cultures of any county.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It baffles me how different the service is for Canadian Cruze owners than it is for US Cruze owners.



I have to assume this was directed at me.

From my experience with Hyundai, US-Canada are 2 seperate companys, different warranties and different TSBs, problems i had with my genesis coupe were widely popular and fixed with the american system, not even a notice to canadian customers

With my experience with Ford (as a tech) I have to assume ours are pretty **** similar, and oh man, i wish i owned a ford right now, because i'd either have my car fixed, or bought back by now (and i havn't seen a ford bought back yet since i've started working there) our biggest problems all have fixes. I'm glad (as an employee) that we don't have this coolant problem


So I'm droppin my car off tomorrow morning and i'm hoping I pick up an ATS instead of a cruze when all is said and done with


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Rolled over 200+ miles today, mostly interstate driving. Lifted the hood on three different occasions and didn't appear to notice a heavy coolant smell after topping the coolant to the top of the arrow before leaving. I monitored my coolant temp the entire trip and it stayed between 220 - 225 most of the trip. Just want to note that when I had the coolant at the second mark from the bottom I would get spikes of the engine temp driving up to 230 and quickly backing down on short drives after reaching high engine temps on the highway. I did not notice any spiking today. Not sure if the coolant level drives this engine temp to spike up into the 230 range when the coolant is a little lower or not. Something was causing it it spike, but not this trip. Maybe because the coolant is topped off???

When I return home Friday I will be rolling another 200+ miles. When I arrive home and pull in the garage I will close the garage door, lift the hood and allow it to sit for 5 minutes. I will return to the garage and see if I have a heavy coolant smell. Possibly an enclosed area will be more helpful.

This is the first time I've had the opportunity to take the Cruze on an extended road trip since I purchased the vehicle. I have to comment that I am impressed with the drivability and handling of this car. Most of the trip was interstate, but did have a two lane road for approximately 60+ miles. Having the extra acceleration with the turbo when passing other vehicles on the two lane stretch was a breeze. The ride was smooth and I was driving into a headwind for several miles when I first left home, but did not encounter any shifting of the car from the headwind. I also operated my heater in different settings to once again confirm any "dex-cool or lube vapors. I played with the heater modes and fan speeds off/on, but mainly ran the fan on cool and did not encounter any dex-cool vapors from the engine compartment. I will update the results of the engine compartment on Friday after the return home drive. Hopefully, dex-cool smell will be virtually absent after parking even with the tank topped.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Friend was smelling this heavy coolant smell on his Eco (16,500 miles) the dealer found coolant leaking from a weep hole on the water pump. Which means its leaking internally. That's apparently what that hole is for. Pump replaced, smell gone. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> Friend was smelling this heavy coolant smell on his Eco (16,500 miles) the dealer found coolant leaking from a weep hole on the water pump. Which means its leaking internally. That's apparently what that hole is for. Pump replaced, smell gone.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


Good to hear that this user was able to have their issue resolved. Seems like there are a number of causes.


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## newcruzer (Mar 8, 2013)

Just agreed on a deal, signing the papers and driving away with a new 2013 Cruze 1LT on Monday. This issue is the only one that scares me in to wondering if I'm making a mistake purchasing this car - now that I have the exact car picked and on the lot, is there something you all would suggest I do prior to signing on Monday in terms of checking the car out?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

newcruzer said:


> Just agreed on a deal, signing the papers and driving away with a new 2013 Cruze 1LT on Monday. This issue is the only one that scares me in to wondering if I'm making a mistake purchasing this car - now that I have the exact car picked and on the lot, is there something you all would suggest I do prior to signing on Monday in terms of checking the car out?


Turn the heat on max and blast it. If you smell something strong (other than the "new car" smell), complain. If not, you're fine.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

newcruzer said:


> Just agreed on a deal, signing the papers and driving away with a new 2013 Cruze 1LT on Monday. This issue is the only one that scares me in to wondering if I'm making a mistake purchasing this car - now that I have the exact car picked and on the lot, is there something you all would suggest I do prior to signing on Monday in terms of checking the car out?


Take the car for a drive. I would at least take it out for a short road trip 15-20 minutes to ensure you get the engine temp up to 200-225 temp. I am not sure if the newer models have the temp control displayed on the DIC. If not drive it until the temp control needle stabilizes around the mark prior to the halfway mark (that is where mine is running 200+ degrees). Once it is up I would return to the dealership and park the car keeping it running. Turn the temp control to the 3:00 position (hot), cycle through each mode setting one at a time and cycle through the fan speeds slowly. I would exit the car every mode setting and reenter checking for a coolant or glycol-based smell. Before exiting the vehicle after each mode setting turn the temp control to the 9:00 position, roll down the windows to clear the heated environment and allow the engine temp to increase back 200-225 temp range. When you turn the heater on it will lower the engine temp somewhat until you increase the temp control to the 3:00 position. Roll up the windows and cycle to the next mode setting leaving the vehicle. I would wait approximately 1-2 minutes before reentering the vehicle checking for a coolant and/or glycol-based smell. I know this appears to be time consuming, but I would take the time to do this. It may not guarantee whether there is a problem or not, but at least you have taken a proactive approach and doing some homework. I would also lift the hood after running the engine temp hot and "sniff" around for coolant vapors. This engine runs hot and you will possibly smell some coolant, but if it is a " heavy" smell I would be concerned.

If the salesman wants to make a sale and provide customer satisfaction they will take the time to support your future investment while you are doing this. If they ask why you are doing this, I would educate the salesman on this issue. I think it is a good idea to meet the service manager and ask if they have had any issues with other Cruzes regarding this issue and see what he/she says. If they have serviced other Cruzes with this same issue I would ask how they have handled these cases. Get a "feel" of your dealership and let them know that you appreciate their support and you do have concerns before investing. I like my Cruze and have had no problems other than this coolant/lube issue. I would purchase another one, but I would do the same thing I just posted here before driving away. I think it is safe to say that there is always a possibility that this issue may surface later if not now as you use the heater and roll over some miles. Even if that is the case you have to make a decision that you feel is best for you.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> Was that the answer to your question?.....sorry if I rattled on too much,


Rattle away, Rob - your rattling tends to be constructive!

I think you answered my question... in a nutshell, a dealership service department is not able to test the interface between the surge tank and the cap o-rings, both are tested against fixtures. This means the relief valve in the cap may be functioning properly and holding 20 psi, but the o-ring seal to the tank could be releasing pressure below that point and the tech wouldn't be able to identify that.

The only way to properly test the cap-to-tank seal would be to tee into the cooling system somewhere and pressurise it while leaving the cap and tank in place.



BigSkyMontana said:


> ...didn't appear to notice a heavy coolant smell after topping the coolant to the top of the arrow before leaving. I monitored my coolant temp the entire trip and it stayed between 220 - 225 most of the trip. Just want to note that when I had the coolant at the second mark from the bottom I would get spikes of the engine temp driving up to 230 and quickly backing down on short drives after reaching high engine temps on the highway. I did not notice any spiking today. Not sure if the coolant level drives this engine temp to spike up into the 230 range when the coolant is a little lower or not. Something was causing it it spike, but not this trip. Maybe because the coolant is topped off???


This information is very interesting. I'm glad you are being so thorough.

This is what I think is going on. Either the cap-to-o-ring interface or the tank-to-o-ring interface is leaking at a pressure somewhere below 20 psi, maybe a lot lower than 20 psi. This leaking is what we smell. My thoughts are based on your experience after having the newer surge tank installed.

Lowering the coolant level in the surge tank keeps the system pressure low by leaving more compressible air in the system. This may initially reduce venting by allowing extra coolant expansion and boiling to occur before venting happens, but this also keeps the cooling system from building sufficient pressure to keep coolant from boiling and when enough boiling occurs (engine under load) the system will still vent (exceed 20 psi cap rating).

By correcting the seal between tank and cap as well as filling to the indicated cold fill line, the system is now functioning as GM designed it to. The proper amount of air is in the surge tank so system pressure builds properly as temperature rises, keeping the boiling point of the coolant high enough that excess boiling is not an issue.

The spiking temperatures you witnessed could have been caused by coolant boiling in the head, causing temps to rise sharply and then fall quickly as the thermostat was opened to regulate the temperature. Then once cooled, temps would rise again until boiling occured and the cycle would repeat. With the system at proper operating pressure the boiling may not be happening, or is at least being properly controlled.

The 1.4T is running with coolant temperatures about 20F higher (220-225F) than most engines do with 15 psi cooling systems (200-205F). Increasing the cooling system pressure to 20 psi adds ~15F to the boiling temperature of the coolant (roughly 3F for every 1 psi increase), so the boiling point is raised to ~280F @ 20 psi instead of the more common ~265F @ 15 psi.

The ECT sensor is measuring the average coolant temperature leaving the cylinder head, not the peak coolant temperature near the exhaust ports. Also, the oil cooler and turbocharger are both cooled using HOT coolant that has exited from the cylinder head and already flowed past the ECT sensor. I bet under load the coolant going through the turbo is boiling.

Rob, you posted this information a while ago:



Robby said:


> ...I filled it to the arrow (28f ambient) and installed the pressure tester.
> Took a ten mile ride.....long enouph for the gauge to stabilize.
> When I got back home I checked the pressure gauge......there it is, 22psi and the level is right at the weld line.
> If it had the cap installed it would've vented.
> ...


Rob, when you did these tests what state was the car in when you took the pressure reading? Was it shut off? Was it idling? If it was idling, how much time passed before you took the measurement? I've got some ideas that have been rolling around in my brain for some time now and all this newfound information seems to be leading me in a different direction than I was going before.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm trying this [email protected]#[email protected]@##$$%% laptop took a dump just as I finished.

OK, I made a 'T' adaptor from the upper hose leading to the tank. I created a Rube Goldberg' adaptor to a hose leading to the 'T' so I could attach my tester (has a gauge).
I purchassed a new 15psi cap for my wifes 08 3.6 Malibu so I could modify (sacrafice) a cap for this test.
That cap vents straight out the top through a small hole......I sealed that hole with a very short self tapping screw w/threads coated w/RTV.
I tested this cap to 30psi after I modified it.

With this cap installed, and the pressure tester mounted inline and tied to the firewall with shock cords, I recorded my readings over a three day period.
Each test began at ambient temperature of around 30 to 35 degrees f.

By using the sealed cap, I was able to see the pressure above 20 psi as reported......I was not surprised and actually anticipated this result since so many have reported the odor after shutoff.

For the next two mornings, I lowered the coolant level one line before starting off on a ten mile, around town route, recording lower readings with each level drop.

I don't recall if I reported one trip on the expressway, but I did a 50 mile each way trip to my hangar and back with the starting coolant level at my lowest test point.....results were the same as around town....14/15 ish psi.

I mentioned the Malibu.....it's cold level is at 1/2 surge tank level, same as a Sonic with the 1.4T....Ideally I could get ahold of a Sonic and run the same test but I suspect, because of its lower cold level, the pressures are well below the Cruze.

All that being said, have you noticed the members with 2013 models are noting a cooling fan run cycle after shutoff?
This is to reduce the potental of 'Heat Soak' a phenomina that occurs on all engines after shutoff......the coolant temperature rises for a few minutes.....so too, surge tank pressure.
Running the fan promotes convection and will reduce the possibility of the surge venting after shutoff, hopefully eliminating the odor after shutoff concern.

Rob

PS Sorry, I didn't answer a question......each reading was taken upon my return with the engine idleing.........I then shut it down and let it cool a few hours.....I did my runnin around using my Jeep.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Awesome info! So you tee'd into the system already! Nice!



Robby said:


> ...each reading was taken upon my return with the engine idleing.........I then shut it down and let it cool a few hours...


The reason I was asking about the idling while testing was twofold; one, as you mentioned, is heatsoak and I wanted to make sure that wasn't causing an "artificial" pressure rise.

Two was to see how long the car idled before your readings were taken. I have a theory that coolant is boiling in the turbo when coming to a stop, engine idling, after being at speed with a load on the engine. What I think is happening is, with a hot turbo and a heat soaked exhaust manifold, the engine drops to idle speed and the coolant flow through the turbo drops allowing the coolant to boil on its way through. This boiling increases system pressure and the tank vents. This theory is based on my own experience since the only time I notice coolant smell is when coming to a stop with the engine idling, or right after shutting the engine off which is the same situation but worse since the only flow of coolant through the turbo is from thermosiphon effect (hot/boiling coolant rises). I posted a video of the sound of coolant boiling in the turbo after shutdown; I know this is happening and probably contributes to the after shutdown pressure rise.

What I don't know is the pressure in my cooling system... but I do know the type of easy driving I do did not generate any venting until I filled the surge tank to the cold fill line.

Another thing I noticed about your data is that you were filling the surge tank at an ambient temp of 28F (-2C). I worked all this out in Celsius since the thermal expansion factors I came across first were in Celsius. A 50/50 Ethylene Glycol/Water mix expands as it is heated, no news there, but the starting temperature when the fill takes place does have an effect since the coolant is more dense at lower temperatures. Filling the system at -2C vs. filling at 22C (room temperature) means a starting point 24C lower than where the car is likely filled at the assembly plant. Assuming a max operating temp of 110C (230F), the Delta Operating Temperature from Fill is 112C vs. only 88C for the room temp fill. This means:

Volumetric CTE 50/50 = 0.000392 (Average of Water 0.000214 and E-Glycol 0.00057)

Delta T = 112C = 1.0439 or 4.4% volume increase
Delta T = 88C = 1.0345 or 3.5% volume increase

To keep it simple, we'll call it a 1% difference. There's 5.5L of coolant in the 1.4T cooling system, so a 1% difference in thermal expansion would mean 55ml (~2 fl oz) extra coolant being pushed into the reservoir. The reservoir was pressurized to 22 psi after your first test, 10% over the cap pressure. If the target volume of air inside the tank at operating temperature is 550ml (~19 fl oz) then pushing an extra 55ml of coolant into the tank would raise the pressure by 10%. This is all based on a WAG of 550ml remaining air volume and a PILE of other variables are being ignored (was the car level when filled, did you fill to the top of the line thickness or the bottom of the line thickness, LOL!).

The only reason I brought this up is that a 2 psi difference in the tank pressure is a fairly small variable when you take everything into account. Could it be that GM wants the system to operate at 18-19 psi, just below the cap pressure? You wouldn't think so, but it's possible.

This is getting to be quite the ramble, come to think about it.

Before doing your pressure/volume test, did you fill the tank to the cold fill line and have a coolant smell? I'm really starting to wonder if Big Sky's experience has brought to light the real source of the problem; poorly sealing surge tank caps? If he reports back that all is well running his tank properly filled and no more coolant venting, I would lean towards assuming we're chasing a supplier quality issue with surge tanks and that when the system is functioning properly all is well...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BSM, based on your work I put together a little cross section view of the cowl seal issue you and your dealer worked so hard to identify and fix:



Based on your description of the issue and verifying that with what I see on my own car, the cowl cover is positioned too far forward and the flange on the forward edge of the cowl tub is not properly interfering with the foam gasket which is attached to the cowl cover. There also seems to be slight differences n the shape of the cowl cover and the cowl tub flange, resulting in the gasket sealing well in some places and not in others as you discovered by shining a light from underneath (I did the same with mine).

Based on BSM's experience with improving this seal interface (drastically reduced coolant smell), anyone with smell issues should take this information to their dealer when getting related work done so they can properly seal this area. The picture illustrates the two most likely paths vapors can take to get into the HVAC intake, the lower of the two paths is being discussed here.

As Robby pointed out earlier in this thread, this seal is a safeguard against anything under the hood that leaks unintentionally... the surge tank is not supposed to vent vapors during normal operation, so if it was working properly the hood seal wouldn't be an issue!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel, thanks for the diagram. For my Cruze I think the lower cowl panel foam seal was not sealed properly and this is where we targeted the sealing process which finally sealed all vapors coming into the air intake. But, as you know we now suspect that either I had a faulty tank or cap, which I am guessing was a cap (possibly bad O-rings.) Next, we have the upper rubber hood seal which we did not do anything with, so I am speculating that my hood seal was not an issue (but could be if not sealing as designed.)

I am going to speculate that there is a possibility that there are Cruzes currently in the inventory on the road and sitting on car lots that possibly don't have a good cowl seal just like mine did, but the surge tanks and caps are functioning as designed, so no coolant issues will surface. If this is the case, most likely the owner will never experience an engine compartment "dex-cool" issue. Now, if they have the grease issue in their HVAC case assembly, then as we all know this is another issue.

I hope that when I pull into the garage tomorrow that I still have an absence of smell when lifting the hood with the coolant level topped off. If this is the case then, it would appear that my system is working as designed. I would think there are other Cruzes out there that the system is working as designed, but somehow a few caps or tanks (speculating caps) got passed through quality control undetected.

I think many of us are now focusing on the tank/cap area as we know PI0740 is not a fix and just "masking" the issue without truly problem solving. We also know there have been reports of leaking pumps which could and have contributed to the problem from my understanding. The interesting thing with the pumps is if someone had a faulty pump and they were smelling "dex-cool" and the smell dissipated after a pump R/R then I am going to speculate they also have a faulty cowl panel seal which allowed the vapors to enter the cabin.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Blue Angel,

I have never had the coolant odor issue.......one of my past endevours was a 'Third party Automotive Failure Analyst'.....long title for someone who is paid to figure out manufacturer uh, oversites.....yea, that'll work.

I only decided to use my Cruze as a test monkey because this issue got my interest......kept thinking this just can't be that elusive.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> I have never had the coolant odor issue.......I only decided to use my Cruze as a test monkey because this issue got my interest...


So your system works properly even with the coolant level topped up to the cold fill line? If this is the case, did you decide to lower the coolant level in the tank simply for "peace of mind"?

I never had the issue either until topping up my surge tank, now I have an under-hood smell every time I shut the car off. If I sit in the car after shut off and turn the HVAC fan back on I get a faint coolant smell inside the car. Fixing my cowl seal as BSM has done would probably reduce or eliminate that (I have gaps in the same locations he reported), but I won't go that route until the source of the problem is dealt with.

I plan to inspect my cap's o-rings as well as the coresponding sealing surfaces inside the surge tank this weekend. If the tank looks good and the o-rings raise any concerns I may look for a replacement o-ring... hopefully cheaper than buying new rad caps in search of a good o-ring.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> My car was dropped off at the dealer on Tuesday morning. I just got a call from the service manager to tell me that they took my entire dash out (every last bolt), and just finished putting it back together. He did not tell me what they replaced, so I suspect we will soon find out. I will get an update from him tomorrow after the technician has a chance to drive my car to verify that there are no squeaks or rattles or anything.


Xtreme, any good news or update on your "every last bolt"...........secured?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> So your system works properly even with the coolant level topped up to the cold fill line? If this is the case, did you decide to lower the coolant level in the tank simply for "peace of mind"?
> 
> I never had the issue either until topping up my surge tank, now I have an under-hood smell every time I shut the car off. If I sit in the car after shut off and turn the HVAC fan back on I get a faint coolant smell inside the car. Fixing my cowl seal as BSM has done would probably reduce or eliminate that (I have gaps in the same locations he reported), but I won't go that route until the source of the problem is dealt with.
> 
> I plan to inspect my cap's o-rings as well as the coresponding sealing surfaces inside the surge tank this weekend. If the tank looks good and the o-rings raise any concerns I may look for a replacement o-ring... hopefully cheaper than buying new rad caps in search of a good o-ring.


My Cruze was delivered with the surge tank level about a half inch below the arrow indicator.

I can only speculate that the level may have had something to do with my 'no odor' experience.
Reading the various threads caused me to perform the tests and raising the level to the arrow was necessary to record the pressures that could be attained.

The level I operate at since then is at one line above the lower surge tank hose nipple.
Yes, the intention is to reduce the possibility of ever having the concern, and, as I said earlier, as long as the level is above the lower hose, the cooling system is full.
I see no compelling reason to operate the car in a condition that has been proven to potentially cause venting.

As far as speculating why this fluid level point was chosen.........gonna have to find the cooling system engineer for that answer.

But, at this point in time, we can all pretty much conclude that there are actually two, and possibly three sources of unusal odor.

1. The surge tank area, underhood venting, possibly vapors drawn into the cabin by the HVAC inlet not properly isolated from the venting source.
2. The admitted fact that the hinge lubricant, when heated, can give off a 'glycol like' odor.
3. The possibility (obermd) that the perceived odor is interpeted as glycol in nature but instead may be mold on the evaporator core.

#3 Should cause concern on Chevrolets end of the discussion, ie, addressing a concern that is not related to glycol type odors.
The real potental of unsuccessful repair rears its head.

I almost think that #3 should be explored before tearing a dash down for case replacement.
At that end, this is a problem that all carmakers have.....some designs end up having the mold issue worse than others.
A friends Dodge Journey had that concern and I had to treat it twice before it was under control.
I think that was related to Chryslers decision to run the compressor at all but one bi-level selector position, resulting in a wet evap. anytime the ambient temperature was above freezing.
I now have that owner operating in that bi-level position anytime A/C is not desired and the odor has not returned......its been two years now.

More food for thought,
Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> My Cruze was delivered with the surge tank level about a half inch below the arrow indicator.
> 
> I can only speculate that the level may have had something to do with my 'no odor' experience.
> Reading the various threads caused me to perform the tests and raising the level to the arrow was necessary to record the pressures that could be attained.
> ...


OK, so the only time you operated the car with the coolant topped right up was with the pressure tester and sealed "dummy" cap installed. Once your testing was complete you replaced the factory cap and continued to run the car with the lowered coolant level. I think I've got it straight now.

If BSM comes back from his trip reporting a properly functional and properly filled cooling system, is topping it up "in the name of science" something you would consider doing? I only ask because keeping the fluid level low will reduce the boiling point of the coolant, potentially causing other issues that may/may not be obvious, such as the coolant temperature spiking BSM reported and extra boiling of coolant (less cooling?) in the turbo after shut down (and maybe idling as well).

If your cap/tank seal is performing properly you may not have venting issues even when topped up. If this is the case, and BSM comes back with positive results, it would go a long way to pointing an arrow at the fix.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Unless I can identify a boiling condition that I consider harmful I have no plans of tempting fate by raising the level.

In addition to that, all related parts, specifically hoses, tend to have a far longer lifespan at lower pressures.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> ...all related parts, specifically hoses, tend to have a far longer lifespan at lower pressures.


Agreed!

I must say, however, that I've had pretty good luck with cooling related parts in my cars and most of them have been sold or traded in as fairly high mileage vehicles. Maybe I'm just lucky?

- '85 Cadillac Sedan DeVille, no cooling issues (but the heater was stuck "on" at all times... not cool!)
- '96 Saturn, upper rad hose replaced after it wore on a bracket for an aftermarket intake (abnormal failure)
- same, radiator tank cracked, design flaw (automatic cars had transmission cooler, manuals had flat plastic prone to flex)
- '01 Saturn, no cooling issues (put a c-clamp on flat portion of rad tank - saw that one coming!)
- '02 Z06, no cooling issues except plugged radiator (low bottom feeder), original hoses after +200k kms
- '12 Cruze, still going so far... 

Hoses and seals have lasted well on all of my cars so far, and all but those mentioned above were originals when the cars were sold. Will the Cruze's high pressure cooling system "rupture" that record? Time will tell, but I'm fairly confident. The only two things that really stick out as potential weak spots are the head gasket (AL head, Iron block) and the turbo. Hopefully these two areas have been thoroughly developed and no random QC issues bite me...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I must say, however, that I've had pretty good luck with cooling related parts in my cars and most of them have been sold or traded in as fairly high mileage vehicles. Maybe I'm just lucky?
> 
> ...


Coolant hoses should really be replaced every 7 years or so to prevent any kind of catastrophic failure that can kill an engine when all the coolant dumps out. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Before departing on my trip home I checked the surge tank and the coolant was a tad low below the weld (arrow location). Three hours and approximately 200 miles later I pulled into the garage closed the garage door and lifted the hood. I did not shut the engine down from the start of my trip until I pulled into the garage. After shutting down the engine (engine coolant temp 225) and lifting the hood I did..............not have any coolant smell I went into the home and reentered the garage 5 minutes later--no smell. I went back into the home and reentered the garage 15 minutes later--no smell. So, I think I can confirm that my tank and cap are operating as designed even with the coolant level at the recommended level. I can also speculate if I would of replaced the tank and cap (and bypassed PI0740) that my engine compartment issue would have been resolved. Of course, at the time of working through the troubleshooting procedures this thought didn't surface until I decided to replace the tank and cap to rid of the (Engineer 101) tape and tube job and noticed that the smell under the hood virtually disappeared. Then, with the help of Silver Streak's suggestion to switch out the old/new cap it appeared that my issue was (speculating the O-rings) as the coolant smell returned to the engine compartment with the old cap installed.

I also want to post that I am pleased with the gas mileage I recorded on this trip. Rounding out approximately 400 miles and cruising much of the trip between 70 -78 mph I averaged 34.8 mpg. I have an LT and never had a car that has done this well on the highway. 

Hopefully, this posting with my surge tank topped off on this trip and no smell reported will be helpful in troubleshooting and providing helpful data in sorting through this issue if others are having the engine compartment vapor issue.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

*The smoking gun*



BigSkyMontana said:


> Hopefully, this posting with my surge tank topped off on this trip and no smell reported will be helpful in troubleshooting and providing helpful data in sorting through this issue if others are having the engine compartment vapor issue.


INDEED IT HAS! Can I get a drumroll please:



What you are looking at is the impression left in the lower o-ring on my tank cap from a DEFECT IN THE SEALING SURFACE OF THE TANK OPENING. I am not able to get a picture of the actual defect at this time (can't get a camera wedged in there), but the defect is clearly felt at the front of the opening. It almost looks like a tooling drag mark from the injection mold, but it's hard to tell.

I'm FINALLY able to put my faith in a conclusion to this issue... some people have a defect in the tank and others do not, or have smaller defects that don't cause leaks. True, I have not actually proven there is a leak at this point, but all evidence pointed directly at this seal interface (see conversations above on this and previous page) even before I looked into this tonight, now the suspected cause materializes.

BSM, do you have your old surge tank? If you do, check the seal surface, and just for fun, check the surface of your new tank (cold!). I'm betting it is nice and smooth the whole way around.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I do have my old tank. I will check and see if anything appears to be "suspicious." If I am understanding your last post are you suspecting the seal surface of the tank or the cap/O-ring or both?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

The seal surface of the tank. The o-ring on my cap has an impression in it from the defect.

This is not to say there _couldn't_ be defective o-rings out there somewhere, but evidence so far only really points me at the tank. My tank has a defective sealing surface.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Before departing on my trip home I checked the surge tank and the coolant was a tad low below the weld (arrow location). Three hours and approximately 200 miles later I pulled into the garage closed the garage door and lifted the hood. I did not shut the engine down from the start of my trip until I pulled into the garage. After shutting down the engine (engine coolant temp 225) and lifting the hood I did..............not have any coolant smell I went into the home and reentered the garage 5 minutes later--no smell. I went back into the home and reentered the garage 15 minutes later--no smell. So, I think I can confirm that my tank and cap are operating as designed even with the coolant level at the recommended level. I can also speculate if I would of replaced the tank and cap (and bypassed PI0740) that my engine compartment issue would have been resolved. Of course, at the time of working through the troubleshooting procedures this thought didn't surface until I decided to replace the tank and cap to rid of the (Engineer 101) tape and tube job and noticed that the smell under the hood virtually disappeared. Then, with the help of Silver Streak's suggestion to switch out the old/new cap it appeared that my issue was (speculating the O-rings) as the coolant smell returned to the engine compartment with the old cap installed.
> 
> I also want to post that I am pleased with the gas mileage I recorded on this trip. Rounding out approximately 400 miles and cruising much of the trip between 70 -78 mph I averaged 34.8 mpg. I have an LT and never had a car that has done this well on the highway.
> 
> Hopefully, this posting with my surge tank topped off on this trip and no smell reported will be helpful in troubleshooting and providing helpful data in sorting through this issue if others are having the engine compartment vapor issue.


I think every post you make concerning this issue should be CC'd to GM engineers so that they can peruse this info since they have been supposedly "working" on this issue since 2011, but YOU seem to have more information for people here than they do! I hope this ends your smells and NO new issues arise!:goodjob:


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

Amen!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> The seal surface of the tank. The o-ring on my cap has an impression in it from the defect.
> 
> This is not to say there _couldn't_ be defective o-rings out there somewhere, but evidence so far only really points me at the tank. My tank has a defective sealing surface.


Blue Angel, after inspecting the sealing surfaces of both my tanks everything appears to be serviceable. I think in my case my issue was the O-rings on my old cap as the "heavy" coolant smell returned under my hood when I put my old cap on the new tank. I guess I could have a defective tank (the old surge tank), but unable to confirm since it is now removed from the vehicle.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Hah!
Nice photo Blue Angel!

To those reading this......don't think for a minute someone at Chevy doesn't read these threads.
And I wouldn't be surprised if that cap photo doesn't turn up somewhere......within G.M.

Rob


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Blue Angel, after inspecting the sealing surfaces of both my tanks everything appears to be serviceable. I think in my case my issue was the O-rings on my old cap as the "heavy" coolant smell returned under my hood when I put my old cap on the new tank. I guess I could have a defective tank (the old surge tank), but unable to confirm since it is now removed from the vehicle.


AH! I thought you had done the opposite (tried a new cap on your old tank), thanks for clearing that up!

Running my finger around the bottom sealing surface in the tank it's quite obvious there is a defective rough surface at one spot. If you are not able to feel anything other than nice smooth plastic inside the tank on that surface then, indeed, your problem may have been caused by the cap o-ring.

As others have mentioned time and time again, THANK YOU for being so patient, persistent and thorough with both your dealership and the forum! I think GM owed you a new keyboard along with that steak dinner... you've typed the equivalent of a short novel into this thread! Also, if it had not been for your information and the clean and mature way you presented it, others may not have been inspierd to investigate it further. CHEERS!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> Hah!
> Nice photo Blue Angel!
> 
> To those reading this......don't think for a minute someone at Chevy doesn't read these threads.
> ...


Thanks Rob!

I agree completely... and to be sure of that I will probably send it to them myself so they are aware, since we have a nice line of communication to the Lordstown plant thanks to Xtreme's commitment.

So to sum this up, coolant smell issues appear to have the following root causes:

1. Water pump leaks (either through a mounting bolt or a vent hole)
2. Surge tank cap leaks (either by defect in o-ring or tank sealing surface)
3. HVAC module lubricant (excessive/misplaced lubricant smells when heated)

Also note that there seems to be an issue with the cowl cover not sealing with the cowl tub, allowing underhood coolant vapor to enter the HVAC intake, leading to the smell in the car.

If I have left something out, please let me know.

It's interesting to look at this list and realise that, other than _maybe_ the cowl cover seal, everything here looks like supplier quality issues. Yes, one could argue that the choice of lubricant in the HVAC module could/should have been different, but the failure mode was not actually the grease but too much of it and/or in the wrong place. Proof of that is the number of vehicles who use the same grease and never have odor issues. The Engineering of the vehicle looks pretty sound, but that can go south quickly if parts are supplied with defects.


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

Just a quick update on my own personal experiences. 2012 LT with 17k miles. After hearing all of the success just by changing the surge tank cap, I went to one of the local Chevy stores that does a very high volume of parts sales. They seem to supply a lot of the automotive businesses in the area along with other GM dealerships. My thoughts were that I would get a later produced cap.

My new cap (PN 13502353) was sealed in a plastic bag, had the GM Service label on it, along with the original label signifying it came from Germany and was an Opel supplied part. Installed the new cap onto the top of the surge tank. But let me go back to my recent dealership service experience where they only pressure checked my system and found no leaks. They did not use any dye to check for leaks, which several of the bulletins state is the first step. But, not to digress, when I got my car back from the service visit, I noticed that my surge tank cap orientation was different from when I took it in. The cap used to lock into place on the surge tank, so all of the graphics on the top of the cap were parallel to the front of the car. Now the cap was approx. 45 degrees CW. Getting back to the new cap, it also wanted to turn past and stop at the same location as the old cap. Removing the cap I found that the dealership had muscled the old cap into place and broke off the tab of plastic on the surge tank that acts as a stop for the cap. There is also a molded tab on the cap that stops the rotation of the cap for proper orientation.

Bottom line this morning after a ride, I still have hot underhood coolant odor with my new cap. To simulate the correct orientation of the cap on the tank, I did not tighten the cap until it stopped, but ended at the spot where the stop on the surge tank is.

Once it cools down, I will remove the cap and look for any traces of rough spots in the neck of the surge tank. I just checked both seals on the old cap and did not see anything of interest. So close yet so far. I was hoping that just by replacing the cap, my issues would be resolved.

BTW - my new cap did not have the added circular yellow marking on the top like the new cap on BigSkyMontana's Cruze. My new cap looks identical to the original cap that was on the car.  I still would like to understand why the difference in his new cap.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> AH! I thought you had done the opposite (tried a new cap on your old tank), thanks for clearing that up!
> 
> Running my finger around the bottom sealing surface in the tank it's quite obvious there is a defective rough surface at one spot. If you are not able to feel anything other than nice smooth plastic inside the tank on that surface then, indeed, your problem may have been caused by the cap o-ring.
> 
> As others have mentioned time and time again, THANK YOU for being so patient, persistent and thorough with both your dealership and the forum! I think GM owed you a new keyboard along with that steak dinner... you've typed the equivalent of a short novel into this thread! Also, if it had not been for your information and the clean and mature way you presented it, others may not have been inspierd to investigate it further. CHEERS!


Took another look closely at my tank. There is an inner plastic ring that is located inside of the outer threaded sealing area (where the cap screws on.) Maybe this is where you are wanting me to look. As you can see there is a grove between both rings (inner and outer ring.) I did find a rough surface (one spot) by running my finger around the inner top edge of the ring. With a flashlight I can now clearly see this rough edge at the top of the sealing surface (one spot only--the rest of the ring is smooth .) I am not sure how the larger O-ring seals on this edge or if it does seal on this edge. As the cap screws on does the O-ring sit down on top of the edge of the inner ring, or does it "slide down" inside the inner ring and seal? It looks like the larger ring slides further down inside the inner ring and sits flush inside the bottom of the sealing area. If this is the case then I don't see how this rough edge would really matter. I only see this rough spot be an issue if it is part of the sealing area where the O-ring makes contact. Blue Angel, can you or anyone else reading this post tell how the O-ring seals when cap is completely installed on the tank? Does it make contact with this top edge of the inner ring, or does it appear to pass this edge and seal lower inside the inner ring of the tank? I can and have confirmed that my cap was bad, but for my tank--this one I am not able to confirm if it was my problem or not.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for the update, Silver.



Silver Streak said:


> I still would like to understand why the difference in his new cap.


I would imagine there are several suppliers for the cap. It could be that some are made cosmetically different, but any cap with the same part number will be intended to function the same way. Whether or not one or more of the cap suppliers has QC issues is another thing entirely.

Let us know what you find out with your surge tank. The surface you are interested in is the one that seals to the bottom o-ring on the cap. It is the lowest cylindrical surface inside the tank opening. Run your finger around the surface and feel for anything that is not absolutely smooth. If you feel anything abnormal, dry the whole opening with a cloth and get a flashlight in there for a look. The plastic is semi-transparent which makes it a little tough to inspect, but anything you feel with your finger should be visible as well. The defect in my tank is closest to the front of the car.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Does it make contact with this top edge of the inner ring, or does it appear to pass this edge and seal lower inside the inner ring of the tank?


OK, I went and got all ambitious with my iPhone camera and a decent light... the macro abilities of this thing are pretty handy!

Here's the tank opening:


Here's a closeup of that shot:

Notice I "traced" the profile of the lower part of the opening and the defect in the surface is visible. The angled surface leading into the bottom of the opening helps to compress the o-ring as you screw the cap down. The o-ring sits against the bottom most vertical section.

Here is a better closeup of the defect:


FYI, my cap looks like this:


And has these markings on the bottom:

GM Part #13502353. This is the same part number Silver Streak getting, but I think from his description the caps have different cosmetics?


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel, very nice pics with details. I checked my tank and all appears serviceable without defects. I am assuming you are replacing your tank. If so, report back and let us know if you are still experiencing the engine coolant vapors through the air intake. My new cap has the same top layout design as yours show in the pic.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I am assuming you are replacing your tank. If so, report back and let us know if you are still experiencing the engine coolant vapors through the air intake.


I will definitely be replacing this tank and cap combo.

I just called the dealer to get a price... JEEZ you guys in the US have got it good! Total on-line price for the tank and cap is about $21 down there. I called the dealership here and the tank is $29 and the cap is $26!!!

I would like to just change these myself rather than going through the hassle of taking the car in... maybe the dealer will give me a break on the parts price if I give them my old parts to send back to GM Engineering for analysis. We'll see. Whatever happens I'll post it up.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> I will definitely be replacing this tank and cap combo.
> 
> I just called the dealer to get a price... JEEZ you guys in the US have got it good! Total on-line price for the tank and cap is about $21 down there. I called the dealership here and the tank is $29 and the cap is $26!!!
> 
> I would like to just change these myself rather than going through the hassle of taking the car in... maybe the dealer will give me a break on the parts price if I give them my old parts to send back to GM Engineering for analysis. We'll see. Whatever happens I'll post it up.


I thought about sending my tank and cap to GM for analysis also, but I think I would have to negotiate with them--meaning that they can have my cap and tank if they could just give me a tool that I could use to give them some constructive criticism on how my case was handled and managed. All I ask my GM service rep to do for me when closing my case was to have someone send me a survey or contact me so I could give some feedback. Unfortunately, I have not received a call or anything. Anyway, I figured it out myself with other members from Cruze Talk, so hey, who really needs GM when there is a team right here working together through the issues to help each other. Oops, was I just venting like my defective cap? Back to the tank and cap issue...........


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Silver Streak said:


> Just a quick update on my own personal experiences. 2012 LT with 17k miles. After hearing all of the success just by changing the surge tank cap, I went to one of the local Chevy stores that does a very high volume of parts sales. They seem to supply a lot of the automotive businesses in the area along with other GM dealerships. My thoughts were that I would get a later produced cap.
> 
> My new cap (PN 13502353) was sealed in a plastic bag, had the GM Service label on it, along with the original label signifying it came from Germany and was an Opel supplied part. Installed the new cap onto the top of the surge tank. But let me go back to my recent dealership service experience where they only pressure checked my system and found no leaks. They did not use any dye to check for leaks, which several of the bulletins state is the first step. But, not to digress, when I got my car back from the service visit, I noticed that my surge tank cap orientation was different from when I took it in. The cap used to lock into place on the surge tank, so all of the graphics on the top of the cap were parallel to the front of the car. Now the cap was approx. 45 degrees CW. Getting back to the new cap, it also wanted to turn past and stop at the same location as the old cap. Removing the cap I found that the dealership had muscled the old cap into place and broke off the tab of plastic on the surge tank that acts as a stop for the cap. There is also a molded tab on the cap that stops the rotation of the cap for proper orientation.
> 
> ...


It is difficult trying to figure these things out, but kudos to you for starting somewhere. Maybe someone else on this thread will tune in and give you some other suggestions. Hopefully, once you check the tank that something of interest may catch your eye. Remember, these cars run hot and you are going to have some smell under the hood, but in my case it was like boiling a pan of antifreeze over an open flame source. The smell was always "hanging out" in my garage and in my cabin greeting me all the time when I entered the car.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Robby said:


> Hah!
> Nice photo Blue Angel!
> 
> To those reading this......don't think for a minute someone at Chevy doesn't read these threads.
> ...



They might be reading these threads, BUT does it change anything?:question:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

fastdriver said:


> They might be reading these threads, BUT does it change anything?:question:


GM sent a service engineering rep to supervise the disassembly of my dash and replacement of the HVAC assembly, which took 3 days. I'd say they've noticed. They know it's a big deal.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I thought about sending my tank and cap to GM for analysis also, but I think I would have to negotiate with them--meaning that they can have my cap and tank if they could just give me a tool that I could use to give them some constructive criticism on how my case was handled and managed. All I ask my GM service rep to do for me when closing my case was to have someone send me a survey or contact me so I could give some feedback. Unfortunately, I have not received a call or anything. Anyway, I figured it out myself with other members from Cruze Talk, so hey, who really needs GM when there is a team right here working together through the issues to help each other. Oops, was I just venting like my defective cap? Back to the tank and cap issue...........



I know you posted that wish a while back, but I would NOT hold my breath waiting to hear from GM even though that is the LEAST they SHOULD do for you! Again, the PATIENCE of a SAINT! :th_salute:


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> GM sent a service engineering rep to supervise the disassembly of my dash and replacement of the HVAC assembly, which took 3 days. I'd say they've noticed. They know it's a big deal.
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com App


I think that's because you have some connection with them and are a moderator here! I DON'T think they would do that for the average Joe!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

fastdriver said:


> I think that's because you have some connection with them and are a moderator here! I DON'T think they would do that for the average Joe!


Although Pontiac didn't send an engineer, they did have one on the phone with my dealership years ago when my Montana kept burning out ABS hubs on the driver's side front wheel. XR is close enough to Lordstown that sending an engineer is feasible. Not so sending one to Denver.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

another update

after getting the cruze back after getting a new motor the coolant smell was worse than ever before, i could taste it! i dropped it off for the coolant smell, and the new engine was throwing misfire codes...

they gave me the car back tonight and my friend drove it home for me ( wasn't expecting it done, had 3 beer) and he drove the piss out of the car, literally drove 8kms in 2nd gear and we couldn't get the coolant smell to come back! all we could smell was the detailing chemicals they used on the interior (worse than dexcool I think) so I may have a fix here, although they didn't fix anything, so i don't know what to think.

They did scratch the car in 2 places and the dealer is going to fix them, and the oil leak is still happening even after getting a new engine from the ring lands 'de-laminating' but i beleive the 'oil leak' is built up oil in the intercooler and piping that wasn't cleaned due to flat rate shop work ethics, no fault of the mechanics


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Bummer or should I write bumper, nah bummer is more appropriate ....I guess I just got lucky with my IT . Knock on wood ..




BE Cool Stay Cozy and the new Best Wishes with your endeavors...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

tsi, glad to hear your coolant issues may be behind you!

Can you get a detailed invoice showing everything that was done on your car while it was there? I'd be very curious to see what changes were made. They may have swapped in a new surge tank and cap just for the heck of it to see about fixing the smell if nothing else was working.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh, and if there is oil in your intercooler make sure at some point the whole intake track is disassembled and washed out with detergent... oil coating your intercooler innards will reduce its efficiency.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Okay, so coming home from my trip on Friday I thought I would "experiment" with the lube issue in the HVAC box. I thought I would wait a few days and post the outcome if I noticed any changes. I recall that several members have posted that over time the lube would break down and the smell would surface and the "ninja smell would strike." Well, I can confirm that is now the case with my Cruze. If you recall, after I finally got the engine compartment figured out I only had a faint smell while operating my HVAC setting in the defrost/floor mode (which I suspected was the lube.) Just to update I just turned 8000 miles on my Cruze. So, upon leaving for home on Friday the outside temp was around 55 so I thought I would run my heater as long as possible and see what might happen with the lube being "cooked" for an extended period of time. So, I positioned my temp control to the 3:00 position and fan speed 4. Cracked my passenger side windows and took off down the road. I was able to comfortably run the heater in this configuration for approximately 2 hours, 45 minutes. Throughout the drive I changed the mode settings often (and had to roll down other windows at times.) The last 15 minutes of my drive I sat the temp control to the 9:00 position to "cool" down the HVAC ducting. I have to say that with the engine temp between 220 - 225 for approximately 3 hours and the heater configured in this position that you could cook a turkey on and around the dashboard. 

I decided to take the car out today and see if there was a difference while running the heater after sitting since Friday evening. After getting the temp up and turning the heater on I don't have a faint smell anymore. I'll make this short....the lube smell is very noticeable now and I believe that my HVAC case assembly is ready for R/R. Apparently I "cooked" the lube to a point that it broke down enough to leave a nice aroma in my cabin.

Tip for the day - during the drive I usually put my wallet in the top compartment of the dash when driving. Today, I went to use my debit card and it is not flat anymore. It is actually "warped". I also checked two other credit cards in my wallet and they are also warped. The only thing that I can think of is while my wallet was in the compartment during the drive home that the top compartment became so hot that it warped my cards. :smileystooges: 

I sent an email to my service manager to schedule the HVAC case assembly R/R.


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

****, if it gets that hot up there in that top compartment to warp your cc's when running the heat on full blast for extended periods of time , what in the world happens to the speaker thats right there when you upgrade to the premium pioneer system?!!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I sent an email to my service manager to schedule the HVAC case assembly R/R.


Wow, talk about taking one for the team when nobody even asked you to! Not sure what to say other than "thanks" and I hope the R+R goes well! GM might hate you for proving this! HAHA!

It does bring up a good point, though... anyone concerned about this issue might be advised to try the same while safely IN the warranty period!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Starks8 said:


> ****, if it gets that hot up there in that top compartment to warp your cc's when running the heat on full blast for extended periods of time , what in the world happens to the speaker thats right there when you upgrade to the premium pioneer system?!!


I'm sure whatever is installed in that pod is validated in conditions worse than we would be able to create while driving. HOWEVER, it does get freaking hot in there, and just because GM's materials survive doesn't mean our stuff will!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

obermd said:


> Although Pontiac didn't send an engineer, they did have one on the phone with my dealership years ago when my Montana kept burning out ABS hubs on the driver's side front wheel. XR is close enough to Lordstown that sending an engineer is feasible. Not so sending one to Denver.


What's the big deal? They sent an engineer to my dealer to look at my Cruze too! What did that prove? He drove it for 13 miles and came to the conclusion- "operating as designed"! It's all show! They KNOW there is a problem with the 2011 Cruze transmissions and lack of acceleration and choose to IGNORE the problem! Ever read any of the more well known automotive reviews of the 2011 Cruze? They all noticed the problem too! ONLY GM refuses to acknowledge it!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Okay, so coming home from my trip on Friday I thought I would "experiment" with the lube issue in the HVAC box. I thought I would wait a few days and post the outcome if I noticed any changes. I recall that several members have posted that over time the lube would break down and the smell would surface and the "ninja smell would strike." Well, I can confirm that is now the case with my Cruze. If you recall, after I finally got the engine compartment figured out I only had a faint smell while operating my HVAC setting in the defrost/floor mode (which I suspected was the lube.) Just to update I just turned 8000 miles on my Cruze. So, upon leaving for home on Friday the outside temp was around 55 so I thought I would run my heater as long as possible and see what might happen with the lube being "cooked" for an extended period of time. So, I positioned my temp control to the 3:00 position and fan speed 4. Cracked my passenger side windows and took off down the road. I was able to comfortably run the heater in this configuration for approximately 2 hours, 45 minutes. Throughout the drive I changed the mode settings often (and had to roll down other windows at times.) The last 15 minutes of my drive I sat the temp control to the 9:00 position to "cool" down the HVAC ducting. I have to say that with the engine temp between 220 - 225 for approximately 3 hours and the heater configured in this position that you could cook a turkey on and around the dashboard.
> 
> I decided to take the car out today and see if there was a difference while running the heater after sitting since Friday evening. After getting the temp up and turning the heater on I don't have a faint smell anymore. I'll make this short....the lube smell is very noticeable now and I believe that my HVAC case assembly is ready for R/R. Apparently I "cooked" the lube to a point that it broke down enough to leave a nice aroma in my cabin.
> 
> ...


Once this last repair is made, I think it's time for a new car!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm sure whatever is installed in that pod is validated in conditions worse than we would be able to create while driving. HOWEVER, it does get freaking hot in there, and just because GM's materials survive doesn't mean our stuff will!


Probably in their 4 million miles of testing, they never put anything in that compartment!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Winter has returned to Denver. Yesterday I was driving to work running my defroster on high and I started getting a very strong glycol smell. When I got to work I immediately checked the engine bay - not only no coolant odor but next to no odors at all. Driving home it got so bad I had to crack the front windows and deal with snow blowing in the car. Once again, no odors outside the car or in the engine bay. Needless to say, PI-0940 won't do me any good since there is no coolant odor in the engine bay. Even the mold/mildew smell I had was never this bad.

My car is at the dealership right now for this and the loose weatherstrip on the driver's side passenger door (wind noise). I'm in a 2013 Cruze FLT car. After reading all the complaints about the 2011 automatic transmission I must say the 2013's have a very, very smooth automatic transmission.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

HVAC case assembly and seals are in. My Cruze is going in tomorrow for "surgery." They will have it a few days. Goodbye smell......


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Good luck fellas! I hope they get your HVAC boxed R+R'd and get you both back on the road, odor free and in good time!

I went to my dealership last night to ask them about a replacement tank and cap. I spoke with the shop foreman about the issue and his level of concern was rather low... he knew of the issue, but seemed rather un-interested in the chance that we had discovered a fix. When I asked him about getting a discount on the parts so I could change them myself, he told me that parts wasn't his area and I'd have to ask the parts manager - he didn't even come with me to validate the story!

Anyway, the parts mgr gave me the expected run-around about "Why don't you just let us fix it under warranty", and then proceeded to say "Why would I give you a discount on the parts when we can make more profit doing it as a warranty job?" BigSky, you truly are lucky... I get the feeling your dealership is staffed with truly rare people who WANT to help you! Beyond the salesman who sold me the car who remembers my name to this day and greets me every time I'm there (a genuinely nice helpful person), everyone else in this dealership just seems to be on cruise control... in 3rd gear.

The guy eventually gave me a "break" on the parts; down from $55 to $36, so with tax I'll be out about $41. The same parts in the US are about $21! Yay GM Canada!

The parts should be in this week and I will hopefully get to replacing them this weekend. This is assuming I'm able to get a tank without a defect in the filler neck, but that _shouldn't_ be a problem. We checked a '13 Cruze in the showroom and the tank neck was fine.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> Winter has returned to Denver. Yesterday I was driving to work running my defroster on high and I started getting a very strong glycol smell. When I got to work I immediately checked the engine bay - not only no coolant odor but next to no odors at all. Driving home it got so bad I had to crack the front windows and deal with snow blowing in the car. Once again, no odors outside the car or in the engine bay. Needless to say, PI-0940 won't do me any good since there is no coolant odor in the engine bay. Even the mold/mildew smell I had was never this bad.
> 
> My car is at the dealership right now for this and the loose weatherstrip on the driver's side passenger door (wind noise). I'm in a 2013 Cruze FLT car. After reading all the complaints about the 2011 automatic transmission I must say the 2013's have a very, very smooth automatic transmission.


It appears that at least you were able to narrow the smell to the HVAC case assembly. Good news for you that the engine compartment seems to be okay. I think it is important that others who are not familiar with the Cruze's engine compartment smell knows that these cars will have a smell after driving. My coolant smell is now mainly isolated and more prevalent around the turbo area after driving and it doesn't knock you on your feet. The tank and cap area still seem to be clear. Before my fix, my garage and the cabin of my Cruze smelled like I was recycling boiled antifreeze for a few hours after driving.

I am wondering what the odds are of having an "odor free" HVAC case assembly? I guess it all depends on how much lube is present in the box, (and/or) how often you use the heater and at what settings. If the odds are not in your favor then it appears that the smell will eventually "sneak" into the cabin over time. I am curious how Cruzes in warmer climate areas report problems with the HVAC case assemblies? It may be less noticeable then those of us living in colder climate areas based on the usage of the heater.

As for my transmission (A/T) (2012 LT) I have not had any issues at this time. Smooth shifting up/down so far.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> It appears that at least you were able to narrow the smell to the HVAC case assembly. Good news for you that the engine compartment seems to be okay. I think it is important that others who are not familiar with the Cruze's engine compartment smell knows that these cars will have a smell after driving. My coolant smell is now mainly isolated and more prevalent around the turbo area after driving and it doesn't knock you on your feet. The tank and cap area still seem to be clear. Before my fix, my garage and the cabin of my Cruze smelled like I was recycling boiled antifreeze for a few hours after driving.
> 
> I am wondering what the odds are of having an "odor free" HVAC case assembly? I guess it all depends on how much lube is present in the box, (and/or) how often you use the heater and at what settings. If the odds are not in your favor then it appears that the smell will eventually "sneak" into the cabin over time. I am curious how Cruzes in warmer climate areas report problems with the HVAC case assemblies? It may be less noticeable then those of us living in colder climate areas based on the usage of the heater.
> 
> As for my transmission (A/T) (2012 LT) I have not had any issues at this time. Smooth shifting up/down so far.


Knowing what to sniff for definitely helps. Even if you don't know it's relatively easy to sniff inside the cabin and then compare the smells under the hood. If you smell the same thing under the hood the source is there and PI-0940 should be done (without the stupid hose reroute) and with extra care on the sealing of the engine cowl area. If the smell is different, then the source cannot be solely under the hood, although it may contribute and provide a blended smell in the cabin.

The dirty sock smell I had would occur at any time with any blower fan setting and any heat setting, with or without the A/C on and with recirc on or off. Only once that was gone was I able to deal with heat related smells. The combination of the two is really, really rank but not as irritating to the eyes as the glycol alone.

As for the odds of having an odor free casing I suspect they are very slim for Cruzen in northern climates. What I suspect is that the more you use your cabin heater the more the grease will decay and it's the decayed grease that's the actual odor source. Cruzen in warmer climates may never exhibit this as their heaters just won't be run enough to break down the grease. I'd wager the 2014 model year will have very few cases of HVAC ducting lubricant related odors - XR reported that Lordstown has already switched to the new ducting lubricant. They are still producing 2013 model year Cruzen.

BigSkyMontana, I'd like to personally thank you for your time and patience with your dealership working this out as well as your time reporting the progress of what's been done, what worked, and what didn't work. Your efforts and reporting helped me help my dealership diagnose the source of my odors. Rob, thanks for suggesting I had a mold/mildew problem - that was about 70% of the smells I was getting and 100% in the summer.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> Knowing what to sniff for definitely helps. Even if you don't know it's relatively easy to sniff inside the cabin and then compare the smells under the hood. If you smell the same thing under the hood the source is there and PI-0940 should be done (without the stupid hose reroute) and with extra care on the sealing of the engine cowl area. If the smell is different, then the source cannot be solely under the hood, although it may contribute and provide a blended smell in the cabin.
> 
> The dirty sock smell I had would occur at any time with any blower fan setting and any heat setting, with or without the A/C on and with recirc on or off. Only once that was gone was I able to deal with heat related smells. The combination of the two is really, really rank but not as irritating to the eyes as the glycol alone.
> 
> ...


I would like to personally thank you and others on this forum for giving me the knowledge and sharing your/their personal experience as you/they tackled not only this issue, but other issues. The insight I have learned from you and others was and is invaluable and helpful in working through this issue. I really like the car and want to enjoy more years of driving. There will be a time that I will sell/trade, but for now I will get it fixed. When I do sell/trade I am not passing on the problem to someone else. I am satisfied with my service manager and the work his department continues to do to help me through this issue. As I posted before, my GM customer service rep did the best she could, but unfortunately I felt that she was left in the dark. As everyone knows I am dissatisfied with the way GM has handled my case. I just think that they should have been more proactive (both in tackling this issue and updating Cruze owners when the problem surfaced). But, there is a great team of members on his forum and for those of us looking for solutions together helps. Maybe GM should think about hiring from this forum. At least they will have others whom have an interest in customer satisfaction and listening to what is and what is not working.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

So I picked up my new surge tank tonight. It has a VERY small surface imperfection in the same place as the one on my car, but nowhere near as severe. I'm fairly confident that it won't cause an issue. My cap should be in later this week, so we'll see how it goes.

Oh, here's something interesting for *fastdriver*...

As I was leaving the dealership a 2.4L Verano with a raised hood beckoned:


Huh? There's something awful familiar in there... LOOK - the pressure cap is the same as the one on the Cruze:


Oh no! It's the same tank as the Cruze too! Part number 13393368:


So this means a Verano is no less succeptible to having a leaky cap-to-tank seal than a Cruze is... better go check the part number on the tank on your Turbo! I bet it's a 13393368 too! And MADE IN CANADA to boot... those darn Canucks!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Knowing how plastics are molded I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the "deformation" is actually where the plastic is injected into the mold.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

obermd said:


> After reading all the complaints about the 2011 automatic transmission I must say the 2013's have a very, very smooth automatic transmission.



Since the 2011 transmissions were "operating as designed", GM decided to change things for 2012/2013! Wonder why?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> HVAC case assembly and seals are in. My Cruze is going in tomorrow for "surgery." They will have it a few days. Goodbye smell......


I hope!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> I hope!


I know!

C'mon fastdriver.....Attitude is everything


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I would like to personally thank you and others on this forum for giving me the knowledge and sharing your/their personal experience as you/they tackled not only this issue, but other issues. The insight I have learned from you and others was and is invaluable and helpful in working through this issue. I really like the car and want to enjoy more years of driving. There will be a time that I will sell/trade, but for now I will get it fixed. When I do sell/trade I am not passing on the problem to someone else. I am satisfied with my service manager and the work his department continues to do to help me through this issue. As I posted before, my GM customer service rep did the best she could, but unfortunately I felt that she was left in the dark. As everyone knows I am dissatisfied with the way GM has handled my case. I just think that they should have been more proactive (both in tackling this issue and updating Cruze owners when the problem surfaced). But, there is a great team of members on his forum and for those of us looking for solutions together helps. Maybe GM should think about hiring from this forum. At least they will have others whom have an interest in customer satisfaction and listening to what is and what is not working.


BSM- you mean GM has NOT been "proactively alerting" you to any post production problems as a GM host has stated? Mmm...they must have lost your address and email! Look on the bright side, if something happens with your current job, you could apply at a Chevy dealership as a PROBLEM SOLVER and watch THAT dealer's sales go through the roof with you onboard!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> So I picked up my new surge tank tonight. It has a VERY small surface imperfection in the same place as the one on my car, but nowhere near as severe. I'm fairly confident that it won't cause an issue. My cap should be in later this week, so we'll see how it goes.
> 
> Oh, here's something interesting for *fastdriver*...
> 
> ...



That may be, BUT I have NOT read ONE thing about a Verano having this issue. I will check it out tomorrow and report back. As a matter of fact, in case you did not know, my Cruze NEVER had the coolant issue. My problem was the crappy shifting transmission and lack of acceleration and lousy gas mileage.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> That may be, BUT I have NOT read ONE thing about a Verano having this issue. I will check it out tomorrow and report back. As a matter of fact, in case you did not know, my Cruze NEVER had the coolant issue. My problem was the crappy shifting transmission and lack of acceleration and lousy gas mileage.


Sounds like you got lucky twice then. Don't use your heater and you'll be OK (probably uses a similar HVAC module with the same lubricant as the Cruze).


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I know!
> 
> C'mon fastdriver.....Attitude is everything



Hey, I'm pulling for you! I just feel bad because you think GM cares and will contact you for your thoughts and experiences with this issue and their lack of input. Put that out of your mind because it's never going to happen.:cussing:


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Sounds like you got lucky twice then. Don't use your heater and you'll be OK (probably uses a similar HVAC module with the same lubricant as the Cruze).



We had a BRUTAL winter for CT. I used my heater ALL the time on HIGH because I HATE the cold! I had every heater on- seats and steering wheel too!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> BSM- you mean GM has NOT been "proactively alerting" you to any post production problems as a GM host has stated? Mmm...they must have lost your address and email! Look on the bright side, if something happens with your current job, you could apply at a Chevy dealership as a PROBLEM SOLVER and watch THAT dealer's sales go through the roof with you onboard!


Oops, must be a leak somewhere. Someone must of informed you of my current operation after I graduate from the Antifreeze and Glycol-Based Substances 501 (Masters level) class. I'm already working undercover. Covert operations regarding customer service and satisfaction ratings. I am thinking I'll be ready to infiltrate the GM headquarters soon and provide them with some expertise on providing customer satisfaction!


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Oops, must be a leak somewhere. Someone must of informed you of my current operation after I graduate from the Antifreeze and Glycol-Based Substances 501 (Masters level) class. I'm already working undercover. Covert operations regarding customer service and satisfaction ratings. I am thinking I'll be ready to infiltrate the GM headquarters soon and provide them with some expertise on providing customer satisfaction!


Who was your teacher, Ralph Nader?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Sounds like you got lucky twice then. Don't use your heater and you'll be OK (probably uses a similar HVAC module with the same lubricant as the Cruze).


I can't see the numbers on the tank, so I can't post a picture, but I did take a pic of the cap. I did not unscrew it to look on the inside because if it "aint" broken, don't fix it! We'll see what happens next winter and if any smell appears. Have you heard of any Verano having the coolant smell problem? I haven't read anything about it. If there was a Verano at your dealer, I assume they sell them? Ask them if they had any problems like the Cruze. When I bring my car in for the first oil change, I'll ask them if they have heard of this problem even though they don't sell Chevys. I also took a few pics of the engine while I had the hood open if you're interested in how things are set up.One thing that I have noticed about the Verano is that the engine does warm up much faster than the Cruze did. Also, the heated seats work faster. I notice that when BigSkyMontana posts his temp figures, I believe he mentions 200+ degrees? My temp gauge has 3 markings- 120-185-250. With 250 being the RED zone! My car, when hot, is one mark over 185? My engine runs cooler? Just an observation. Have no clue what it means.















http://[URL="http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/"http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fastdriver2/media/2013


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Cruze went in today for the HVAC case assembly R/R. As always was met by my service department and manager with a handshake and a smile. Spent some time discussing the process with him. We were joking around about the case assembly....hoping that the supplier sent the updated box........that would be a plus! Should have the car back tomorrow evening or Friday. I requested some pics of the R/R process. Left my camera and requested some pics, especially of my old box and the lube areas. If I am able to get some good shots I will post.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> We had a BRUTAL winter for CT. I used my heater ALL the time on HIGH because I HATE the cold!


You, and tens of thousands of satisfied Cruze owners as well. 



fastdriver said:


> Have you heard of any Verano having the coolant smell problem? I haven't read anything about it.


When I Google to find anything all I come up with are your posts on various forums telling people about the problems you had with your Cruze.



fastdriver said:


> One thing that I have noticed about the Verano is that the engine does warm up much faster than the Cruze did... ...My temp gauge has 3 markings- 120-185-250. With 250 being the RED zone! My car, when hot, is one mark over 185? My engine runs cooler?


Coolant gauges on these cars are not much more than glorified idiot lights. It is quite common on most new cars that the temp gauge stops climbing much sooner than the actual coolant temp, and then stays still until another higher set temp is exceeded. There's a huge "dead zone" of engine temps that are not accurately reported. This keeps people from worrying about their engine temp and pestering the dealerships when nothing is actually wrong with the car... _dumbing things down for the masses_. The 2011 Cruze had a temp display on the DIC, the 2012 and newer do not. GM learned that information in the wrong hands is dangerous (and costly).

It warms up faster because it is not as efficient and has more waste heat production; the physics of a 43% larger engine pulling a heavier car around.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> http://


Your link doesn't seem to be working?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Blue Angel......talk about dumb instruments, here's one for ya.

My 09 Miata has a oil pressure gauge.....that isn't.
It is driven by the ecm.
The only time it won't move the needle is if it has no, zero, nada oil pressure.
If it has more than 4 psi, the ecm/bcm is satisfied and waves the needle around based on coolant temperature and rpm.

So, say my actual pressure at the tap is .....5psi.....the computer is happy and now I'll get a reading on the gauge, depending on temp and rpm, around the lower 1/4 gauge at hot idle, around 3/4 gauge at 2000 rpm......all because, I guess, Mazda doesn't want the operators to fret over the real readings....good grief.

All the manufacturers are creating nothing but 'feel good' dashboard info for nitwits.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I'd love to be able to go into my dealership and say "turn on all the vehicle status information." and have a new set of displays that show actual temps, oil pressure, turbo boost, fuel remaining in gallons, battery voltage, current draw and max current draw, ECO air shutters open or closed, tire pressures, etc.

I can understand why most people wouldn't want this information, but after you drive a car for a while you'll get a feel for what is "normal" for your car and can then use this information to detect possible abnormal operating conditions.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

My service manager called and asked if I wanted to stop in and see my old case assembly. I stopped by and looked it over. There was a good amount of grease and it was yellowish in color. They had my new case assembly attached to the frame. Looking over the new case assembly it was apparent that they used less grease on the hinges and around the gear area. The grease on the new assembly was white. Also, on the side of the new case assembly it was annotated "new grease" with some additional info. So, it is good to know that I have a new assembly going in. It is a job. I looked inside my Cruze and the only thing left was the center console shift and the front windshield. Everything else was pulled out. I had the opportunity to meet the technician who was doing the job. I feel confident that the maintenance being done is done carefully and with great care. Everything appears to be going well. It looks like I will have some pics to post later this week. I know I have made the right decision in getting this done ASAP and well within the warranty period.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I stopped by my dealership today. My case assembly was reasonably clean which explains why GM took some time to review this issue after this solution was initially found. Here's a picture.









The A/C discharge/charge system was still plugged into the car making it appear my car was on life support. I'm also getting my cabin air filter changed - I didn't see any reason to keep a dirty air filter that had dealt with mold/mildew and glycol odors.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Your link doesn't seem to be working?



Sorry about that. There were two pictures of the same thing. I deleted one, but they both must have gone.

As for Googling the coolant smell in the Verano, I don't see anything. Just the Cruze. As for my posts with my Cruze, I think it's important to warn people who might be considering a 2011 model to do their homework and find one with a good transmission and no coolant smell. After all, who would have thought that a car that was tested for 4 million miles and was out for two years in, I think, 163 other countries, would have such problems. Buyer beware still holds true no matter what you buy these days in this economy.


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## Rbk_3 (Apr 14, 2013)

Does this affect all model years and trims? 
I don't think I have the issue with my 12 Eco, but then again I just got it and do not know what antifreeze smells like. For all I know that new car smell I am smelling could be antifreeze. Might have to open the cap and sniff some antfreeze tomorrow


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> All the manufacturers are creating nothing but 'feel good' dashboard info for nitwits.


I don't think anyone could say it much better than that! LOL!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> I can understand why most people wouldn't want this information, but after you drive a car for a while you'll get a feel for what is "normal" for your car and can then use this information to detect possible abnormal operating conditions.


While I agree 100%, from the OEM's point of view the less information you have the better. If your car detects a condition that's outside of it's predetermined operating parameters IT will tell YOU when to bring it in for service. This approach keeps the customer from pestering the dealership every time they think something isn't operating just perfect.

Something I absolutely LOVE about my Corvette is that it has a full gauge cluster with gauges that display accurate information. If my oil pressure is low I see it accurately. If my coolant temp starts to rise I see it instantly. BOTH of those qualities have been extremely useful in the past as I had an issue with the bypass valve in the oil pump and an issue with air pockets in the cooling system. Without accurate gauges to tell me what was going on I wouldn't have had any idea... until the "idiot light" lit up. WRT oil pressure, by the time that light comes on it's usually too late...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I know I have made the right decision in getting this done ASAP and *well within *the warranty period.


Thanks for another post full of great info!

I agree with you... getting a job of this magnitude done long before your warranty runs out is a good idea. It would be good to have a little time after the new parts go in to make sure that everything is working OK and there aren't any other issues created by having this done. Shouldn't be long now!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> ...who would have thought that a car that was tested for 4 million miles and was out for two years in, I think, 163 other countries, would have such problems.


Agreed. Many of these issues, however, are supplier quality issues and not design/Engineering issues. As for your transmission, it's too bad someone from GM tried to blow smoke up your @$$ instead of admitting there was an issue they could fix. That is, unfortunately, the way some people think issues are to be dealt with. A small group of employees can tarnish the image of the whole company. Generally speaking I am VERY supportive of GM Engineering, but much less so of their service departments.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Rbk_3 said:


> Does this affect all model years and trims?


It _could_, but please understand that a very small number of people actually have these issues. There are hundreds of thousands of satisfied Cruze owners driving around, and you are probably one of them. Coolant vapors are an irritant - you will know it if you smell them. I wouldn't go looking for problems you likely don't have.

Threads like this are intended to help those owners who actually DO have problems with their cars. If you don't smell anything unpleasant in your Cruze I wouldn't worry about a thing.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Thanks for another post full of great info!
> 
> I agree with you... getting a job of this magnitude done long before your warranty runs out is a good idea. It would be good to have a little time after the new parts go in to make sure that everything is working OK and there aren't any other issues created by having this done. Shouldn't be long now!


Should have the car back later today, if not by early tomorrow. XR wasn't kidding when he posted his update and mentioned that they had everything out down to the very last bolt. After looking around inside my Cruze I think there was more space in the front then in the trunk area with everything out. For those of us with the warranty and have the problem (or even suspect it is an issue) it might be wise to get the job done just in case any bugs happen to creep in later and...... "surprise." I also have made a request through my service manager for some type of extended warranty. 

With a job this big, and possibly other Cruzes affected, GM should at least recognize the dealerships that are tackling this issue and making things right. At least I know I am getting it done with a service manager and a team that is determined to get this issue fixed with the resources they have and striving for making customer satisfaction job #1!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

When I looked at my car yesterday, not only was the dashboard cover off, but the center console all the way back to and including the center glove box was out. The trim on the inside of both front door jams was out. The gear shift looked like a lady holding her skirt up to run. The steering wheel was dangling. The A/C had to be drained. Radio was out. Instrument cluster was sitting on the rear deck. The tech trimmed the spot of white fuzz that that I could see down by the windshield VIN plate.

The box itself sits directly under the dashboard storage unit/front center pioneer speaker, which is why that holder gets so hot when you're running the cabin heater. GM rightly figured that that spot is ok to generate a lot of heat because in the summer that area gets extremely hot while the car is sitting in the sun, even with the windows down. The gears and shutters in the blower system sit right there as well.

Folks - it is major surgery on your car to swap out this box. The size of this job is the reason GM wants to rule out engine compartment leaks seeping into the cabin air intake first. After seeing all the stuff that had to be removed and then seeing the A/C recharge system hoses plugged into the engine bay I had to laugh. It really did look like they had my car on external life support.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Agree with obermd. The last thing I wanted to do, was to have my HVAC case assembly R/R'd. I had to somehow ensure that I was able to "rule out" any coolant issues in my engine compartment, because if that's where my problem was it was less intrusive then going into the dash. As you know that did not come easy and it just so happened that after successfully sealing my cowl area I "stumbled" across the vapor culprit by replacing my tank and cap. Then, I was able to determine the status of the lube condition in my HVAC case assembly. I still encourage everyone to carefully examine their cowl area for proper sealing. If I had to do this all over again, I would inspect my cowl area (focusing on the seals) and somehow ensuring my tank and cap are serviceable. If needed have the service department assist in trying to "rule out" any additional issue that may be drawing coolant vapors into the air intake or creating the "heavy" coolant smell under the hood. If you can determine that everything is serviceable under the hood, then I would carefully examine the possibility of the problem laying within the HVAC case assembly. I am not an expert, but I can say that the coolant and lube are similar in smell and hard to distinguish between the two. But, if you have the unfortunate opportunity to have both for breakfast, lunch and dinner you become real familiar with both smells and able to distinguish the difference between both.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Actually, if you think about it, the cowl sealing would never be necessary if the blinking surge tank operated as designed.

Ultimatly this will become a surge issue, a grease issue, or a combination of the two.

The reseal/vent redirect was a piss poor band aid idea developed by a D minus class engineer in the hopes of covering up a component failure.

My opinion.....but based on rather basic conclusions.
Now I have to wonder what other G.M. models are running around with the lubricant thing waiting for the right set of circumstances for them to display the same problem......I'm sure the Cruze wasn't the only product from G.M. using this stuff.

Rob


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## zite747 (Mar 27, 2012)

I can confirm that my 2010 LS+ Cruze suffers from this problem about the coolant smell. It started to smell about a year after I've purchased my car. Then I was thinking that the odor comes from the seats or the floor carpet. I even had my interior detailed with professional tools, but the odor reappeared shortly. Thanks to this forum, I've managed to locate where the problem was/is. I'm from Romania, and I'm afraid that my local Chevrolet service, will not resolve it, and beyond this, I bet they never heard of this problem, and that's a shame!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

^Feel free to refer your dealership or mechanic to this site if you need help! Good luck with your issue, and let us know if you get it resolved.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## zite747 (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm going to make an appointment for the next week. Finger crossed! I already think that I will take the car from them, with the exact problem unsolved.... Maybe if I will show them the number stated by GM USA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the right number regarding the coolant smell? ----> PI0762


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

zite747 said:


> I'm going to make an appointment for the next week. Finger crossed! I already think that I will take the car from them, with the exact problem unsolved.... Maybe if I will show them the number stated by GM USA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the right number regarding the coolant smell? ----> PI0762


PI-0740 is for engine bay related coolant smells (Don't let them put the stupid tubing on your surge tank as this hasn't fixed any car yet)
PI-0935 is for the HVAC related coolant smells.

Print the first post from thread http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...temperature-control-set-high-heat-engine.html to get the text of PI-0935.


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## zite747 (Mar 27, 2012)

Thank you very much obermd! I wish they'll resolve this smell/stench problem.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Received a call from my service manager. Everything is back together and the car is getting detailed and cleaned up at this time. My service manager will drive it tomorrow throughout the day after detailing/cleanup and check for rattles or any other issues that may surface after the HVAC case assembly R/R. Will be ready for pickup tomorrow afternoon if everything checks out well. I will post more info after reviewing the pics and following up with my service manager.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

:th_dblthumb2:


Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Got my car back today. No rattles so far. One scratch in the silver cover around the gear shift - replacement part should be here tomorrow. The tech apologized to me for damaging the cover. Way too much Dexcool in the surge tank - nearly half an inch above the full cold line. I'll let that vent out as I drive. I did, for the first time, however, smell coolant outside the car which I fully expected to smell after seeing the coolant level. On the flip side, it appears the cowl seals for my car are working as designed as there was no, zero, zilch, etc. odor in the cabin.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I advise against allowing it to vent......it'll wreck your new cabin filter.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks - when I go in to have the scratched plate replaced I'll see if they can drain some of the Dexcool out.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

So I picked up my car saturday and the coolant smell was seemingly gone. There was a chemical smell when running the heater, but the dexcool smell is gone. I still havn't gotten an invoice saying what they replaced (including the engine) but i'm baffled as to what they did. (sorry to whoever asked a few pages ago, still no invoice)

I will add that after a few more days the chemical smell is gone, but when i get her really hot i smell dirty socks from the hvac system, only on heat, only when hottt. I am losing coolant though  car was cold when i picked her up and i checked everything under the hood. no more oil leak and coolant was right on the line with the arrow. Now i'm half a line down when cold, and oil is still leaking out the throttle body(oil level still full at least)

I do smell coolant in the engine bay, which I didn't before. so this car has gotten very interesting! 

as far as they've told me all they replaced was the long block and "A hose that had swelled" but no idea what hose that was. I've also had a few instances of 'hyper active fan' under the hood after a good drive since the new engine and whatever reflash they did to kill the misfiring the new engine caused.


dropping car off saturday for a full day (again) will report back!


*edit* I should also add that I can smell the oil burning under the hood like a champ, but never in the cabin. even though my 'wiper cover plastic'(cowl) foam seal is peeling off I can't smell any of the rancid fumes from my engine bay in the cabin. That makes me wonder even more how i could smell dexcool before and now nothing, when they havn't repaired anything inside to my knowledge.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> Thanks - when I go in to have the scratched plate replaced I'll see if they can drain some of the Dexcool out.


Check the level again when you take it in after driving for a day or two. Sometimes air will get trapped in the system and need a while to work its way out.

One more thing to check. There's an air bleed on the top of the passenger side rad tank. This lets air out of the upper half of the rad after filling. It might be worth it to crack that bleeder open and make sure the rad is full of coolant in case the tech may have overlooked it.

If you're venting it's not too likely that you have much air in the system, but it never hurts to make sure. Also, it will take FOREVER for venting to reduce the fluid level in the surge tank. I topped mine off back in January and the level has been pretty much solid since then, and my car vents every time I shut it off.

Glad to see your car back and hopefully permanently odor free!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> That makes me wonder even more how i could smell dexcool before and now nothing, when they havn't repaired anything inside to my knowledge.


Interesting case you've got going on there!

Dirty socks could be mold in the AC Evaporator. I think obermd went through the same thing and had to have it cleaned. I'm sure he'll chime in.

Losing coolant could just be air trapped in the system: see my post above to obermd.

Oil fed into the engine for a long period of time can be very bad. I neglected to change a bad PCV valve in my '96 Saturn and it started leaking oil into the intake manifold. All of this oil was going into the intake port of #3 cyclinder, and after years of driving the exhaust valves got burnt out; litterally half of each exhaust valve was missing, they were "D" shaped. I installed a re-built head.

Oil burning for a short period of time is no big deal, but I wouldn't want to be burning oil long term, that's for sure. It might also affect your emissions controls (air/fuel sensors and catalytic converters). Get'r fixed.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

1990tsi said:


> So I picked up my car saturday and the coolant smell was seemingly gone. There was a chemical smell when running the heater, but the dexcool smell is gone. I still havn't gotten an invoice saying what they replaced (including the engine) but i'm baffled as to what they did. (sorry to whoever asked a few pages ago, still no invoice)


You need to push them for the invoice for your records.



1990tsi said:


> I will add that after a few more days the chemical smell is gone, but when i get her really hot i smell dirty socks from the hvac system, only on heat, only when hottt. I am losing coolant though  car was cold when i picked her up and i checked everything under the hood. no more oil leak and coolant was right on the line with the arrow. Now i'm half a line down when cold, and oil is still leaking out the throttle body(oil level still full at least)


If you still smell dirty socks after the chemical smell is gone, then take it back to have the mold/mildew removal TSB applied. I don't know the TSB number unfortunately but I saw it on the system so I know it does exist. It's possible that something fell into the cabin intake.



1990tsi said:


> I do smell coolant in the engine bay, which I didn't before. so this car has gotten very interesting!


Check your coolant levels cold and monitor them. To assist in finding any leaks or designed venting, there is a florescent dye that your dealer can put in for you. This should always be the first step in searching for a "hidden" leak. In my case I discovered that I had too much pressure in my coolant system and the "leak" was actually the designed venting of excess pressure. The dye shows up as orange specs on the vent channel when this happens.



1990tsi said:


> as far as they've told me all they replaced was the long block and "A hose that had swelled" but no idea what hose that was. I've also had a few instances of 'hyper active fan' under the hood after a good drive since the new engine and whatever reflash they did to kill the misfiring the new engine caused.


The hyper active fan is most likely a result of the reflash. The ECU will run the main fans for a while after you turn the car off to help cool the turbo charger.



1990tsi said:


> dropping car off saturday for a full day (again) will report back!


Good luck.



1990tsi said:


> *edit* I should also add that I can smell the oil burning under the hood like a champ, but never in the cabin. even though my 'wiper cover plastic'(cowl) foam seal is peeling off I can't smell any of the rancid fumes from my engine bay in the cabin. That makes me wonder even more how i could smell dexcool before and now nothing, when they havn't repaired anything inside to my knowledge.


When they took the engine out there are several hoses that run from the engine bay into the cabin. At least two of these carry dexcool to the cabin heater core (one in/one out). These hoses had to be disconnected to do the engine work. Also, ask if they cleaned the engine supports when they swapped the block. If you had a leak before, which you probably did, you almost certainly have oil sitting on the supports and bracing under the engine.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> Got my car back today. No rattles so far. One scratch in the silver cover around the gear shift - replacement part should be here tomorrow. The tech apologized to me for damaging the cover. Way too much Dexcool in the surge tank - nearly half an inch above the full cold line. I'll let that vent out as I drive. I did, for the first time, however, smell coolant outside the car which I fully expected to smell after seeing the coolant level. On the flip side, it appears the cowl seals for my car are working as designed as there was no, zero, zilch, etc. odor in the cabin.


Glad to hear that everything appears to be working or "operating as designed" --where did I recently hear that phrase?  I noticed when they had my car "gutted" out that they placed some "yellow colored tape" over the shift and center console areas that were exposed. They informed me that this was to protect the area from scratches or other minor damage while they were working inside the car.

The cowl area seals......I will speculate that if a the cowl seals are not properly sealing as designed (when the car came off the assembly line which I think is highly possible and believe that was the case with my car) and/or the surge tank is topped off (which we now suspect increases coolant vapors when at high temps) and/or you have a tank/cap issue then there may be a possibility that hot coolant vapors could be drawn into the air intake to the cabin. That is why it is important to ensure the cowl sealing areas are sealed. Most importantly, I think you have to ensure that the cowls seals are sealing first before trying to troubleshoot the HVAC lube issue. In my case, it was difficult to pinpoint the HVAC lube issue when I had coolant vapors seeping through the gaps of my cowl seals and coming into the cabin. In your case obermd, it appears that your seals are doing the job--great news! It appears that there is always a possibility of someone's surge tank (emitting hot coolant vapors) and seeping through a gap (or gaps) around the cowl area which could enter the cabin area. Something this simple could become a major headache. There are so many variables in tackling this issue, but looking better as everyone continues to post their thoughts and expertise


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Glad to hear that everything appears to be working or "operating as designed" --where did I recently hear that phrase?  I noticed when they had my car "gutted" out that they placed some "orange colored tape" over the shift and center console areas that were exposed. They informed me that this was to protect the area from scratches or other minor damage while they were working inside the car.
> 
> The cowl area seals......I will speculate that if a the cowl seals are not properly sealing as designed (when the car came off the assembly line which I think is highly possible and believe that was the case with my car) and/or the surge tank is topped off (which we now suspect increases coolant vapors when at high temps) and/or you have a tank/cap issue then there may be a possibility that hot coolant vapors could be drawn into the air intake to the cabin. That is why it is important to ensure the cowl sealing areas are sealed. Most importantly, I think you have to ensure that the cowls seals are sealing first before trying to troubleshoot the HVAC lube issue. In my case, it was difficult to pinpoint the HVAC lube issue when I had coolant vapors seeping through the gaps of my cowl seals and coming into the cabin. In your case obermd, it appears that your seals are doing the job--great news! It appears that there is always a possibility of someone's surge tank (emitting hot coolant vapors) and seeping through a gap (or gaps) around the cowl area which could enter the cabin area. Something this simple could become a major headache. There are so many variables in tackling this issue, but looking better as everyone continues to post their thoughts and expertise


No coolant smells inside the cabin but boy did the outside stink. The silver piece was damaged during reassembly - it looks like a screwdriver got dropped on it tip down. You are correct that there are a lot of different possibilities which really makes this hard to troubleshoot. When I take it in to have the scratched trim replaced I'll have them siphon out some of the extra coolant. Rob made a good point to get that lowered so I don't clog my brand new cabin air filter with Dexcool particles.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Still no rattles. I got the scratched trim replaced today and the DexCool lowered to the "full cold" line while the engine was hot. No odors inside or outside - yeah :signs015:


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Picked up my Cruze and drove around after having the HVAC assembly replaced. Definitely a difference--no more glycol-based smell :wavetowel2:Ran the heater through all the mode and fan settings. Only smell is like a burnt rubber smell. I will contribute this smell to the new case assembly. Dash looks like it was never touched. Everything on and around the dash appears to be in alignment with no rattles. All the instruments working and it appears that everything is in order. Car is detailed and clean. It is nice to finally have the car in a state that is comfortable while driving. I did ask for an extended warranty. It appears that my service manager is going to work something out for me. I am VERY SATISFIED with the way my service department has handled this situation from start to finish. I hope that anyone else who may have to tackle this issue will have a satisfied and pleasant experience as I have encountered with my service department. I do have some pics of the HVAC case assembly and a few others that I will post later.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Agreed. Many of these issues, however, are supplier quality issues and not design/Engineering issues. As for your transmission, it's too bad someone from GM tried to blow smoke up your @$$ instead of admitting there was an issue they could fix. That is, unfortunately, the way some people think issues are to be dealt with. A small group of employees can tarnish the image of the whole company. Generally speaking I am VERY supportive of GM Engineering, but much less so of their service departments.



So, the suppliers for the Cruzes in those other 163 countries was/is completely different than the US Cruzes?

You are saying that there IS a fix for the 2011 transmission? Exactly what would that be? WHY wouldn't they fix it? Originally GM "customer service" got involved quite by accident. I ended up dealing with THREE different people in the Early Response Business Resource Center whatever that is and wherever that is. WHY 3 different people, I have NO clue! I assume that each one was higher up the ladder than the previous one? Anyway, while waiting for over a MONTH for GM to send my dealer the updated info for the data recorder that they wanted to install in my car, nothing was happening. The day I went to the dealer for the appointed time to have this installed, the dealer told me that they did not get the info from GM yet. It would have been nice if he had called me to tell me this, but since I'm only minutes from the dealer it was no big deal. So, I told the dealer that maybe if I called the "customer service" person I was dealing with, the 3rd one, that maybe he could speed things up and see what was taking GM so long to send this updated data recorder info. When I called GM, he told me that there was nothing else he could do for me! That was when I decided that it was time to call GM Corporate directly. I did and nothing really happened there either. All of this nonsense went on for over SIX months. The ONLY thing they ever replaced was the TCM at around 10,200 miles, but that did nothing. The dealer told me that replacing the transmission would NOT solve the problem because he had done that on someone else's car and it shifted the same way. The GM Corporate guy told me that they could NOT put in a 2012 transmission is a 2011 model. Then, at the end of January, a GM engineer came to the dealer to check out my car. After 5 days and driving it for 13 miles, he came to the conclusion that it was "operating as designed"! Five days later the car was history!

WHY do you think they would not fix it if there was indeed a solution? I never fought with them or argued. I just went along with the BS until that engineer came to that conclusion. This is where I blame GM for NOT cracking down on their dealers! GM Corporate was aware of the problem and did NOTHING!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Robby said:


> Actually, if you think about it, the cowl sealing would never be necessary if the blinking surge tank operated as designed.
> 
> Ultimatly this will become a surge issue, a grease issue, or a combination of the two.
> 
> ...


Don't you think that if there were other GM models with this same lubricant issue that they would have popped up by now from 2011? Do you know of any other GM car that has this problem?


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

What amazes me is that they knew of this since 2011 and still used the same lubricant for 2012 AND 2013 Models. 
What about the 2014 that will come out? If I'm a betting man I say GM is using exactly the same crap, same parts as well that have been giving owners issues as well, same steering components that are locking up on people, etc.
Does anyone here think otherwise?


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Glad to hear that everything appears to be working or "operating as designed" --where did I recently hear that phrase?



 A phrase I will NEVER forget!


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

obermd said:


> Still no rattles. I got the scratched trim replaced today and the DexCool lowered to the "full cold" line while the engine was hot. No odors inside or outside - yeah :signs015:


YIPPEE!!! Maybe now you can enjoy your new car! Congratulations.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Picked up my Cruze and drove around after having the HVAC assembly replaced. Definitely a difference--no more glycol-based smell :wavetowel2:Ran the heater through all the mode and fan settings. Only smell is like a burnt rubber smell. I will contribute this smell to the new case assembly. Dash looks like it was never touched. Everything on and around the dash appears to be in alignment with no rattles. All the instruments working and it appears that everything is in order. Car is detailed and clean. It is nice to finally have the car in a state that is comfortable while driving. I did ask for an extended warranty. It appears that my service manager is going to work something out for me. I am VERY SATISFIED with the way my service department has handled this situation from start to finish. I hope that anyone else who may have to tackle this issue will have a satisfied and pleasant experience as I have encountered with my service department. I do have some pics of the HVAC case assembly and a few others that I will post later.



CONGRATULATIONS!!! When is that job offer from GM coming? :biglaugha:


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

fftopic: TERRORIST CAUGHT!!!!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> Actually, if you think about it, the cowl sealing would never be necessary if the blinking surge tank operated as designed.


I can see two sides to the cowl sealing. On one side ICE engines create, even when operating normally, all sorts of odd odors at times and this seal keeps them out of the cabin. On the other side by keeping the odors out of the cabin the driver won't know they have a problem. Given that most people would recognize a normal odor from an abnormal odor I think the cowling is a good idea.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

fastdriver said:


> CONGRATULATIONS!!! When is that job offer from GM coming? :biglaugha:


Shhhhh........covert operation.......they did ask me if I knew anyone that could "slip or slide" into the transmission department.........I sort of "dropped" your.........name:biglaugha:


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Shhhhh........covert operation.......they did ask me if I knew anyone that could "slip or slide" into the transmission department.........I sort of "dropped" your.........name:biglaugha:



Let me tell you that if I was in charge of quality control in the transmission department, NONE of this crap would be passed off as "operating as designed" when they know **** well what BS that is! :angry: While they may feel that they screwed me, they did me a big favor! I got a nicer car for NO money down out of MY pocket and 2 free years of directions and connections and only $10.00 more a month for a car that cost thousands more! ccasion14:

I'm just happy that your car is finally fixed and you can now enjoy it like you should have been able to do from DAY ONE!


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I did have the opportunity to get a few pics during my HVAC case assembly R/R. I am hoping that posting these pics will be helpful for others to understand the process of moving ahead to resolve the HVAC lube smell issue if this problem ever surfaces with their Cruze. My intentions are to pass on what I have learned about my Cruze and what I have personally experienced while patiently waiting for a resolution. Initially, I was hesitant about having this work completed. This past week I turned over 8600 miles and knowing that my dashboard and other miscellaneous parts needed to come out of a new vehicle was not a pleasant thought. But, I knew I had a great service department, and once again they showed that they knew their stuff and deserve a 5 star rating I spent some time tonight driving and looking over the car. So far everything appears to be functioning well and the glycol-based lube smell is completely absent.

Preparation to remove the frame with the attached case assembly.......
















HVAC Case Assemblies.......

















Old Case Lube.......yellow in color

























New Case Lube.......white in color

























I am not an expert on lubes, but thought I would Google some info. It appears that the new lube is Uniflor 8172. Here are a few links I found that may be helpful with some info.......

http://extranet.titaniumprint.com/service/HP_manuals/8172_copy3.pdf

http://www.nyelubricants.com/_pdf/UniFlor/uniflor_brochure_english72.pdf

After looking over the case assemblies I would think that the supplier would refurbish the case as it appears to be a simple process of removing the identified parts and old lube, cleaning up the case and parts, and reassemble applying the new lube. Hopefully that is the plan as it appears to be more cost effective. Additionally, if refurbishment is the process the supplier could turn case assemblies around rather quickly. I couldn't imagine my old case being discarded.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

You win .. had to distract the spam bot and a few others along the way .. good read big sky !


Fast driver it is full well .. I worked with a man that had never used profanity ever it had a lasting impact we do have over 3600 words in our vocabulary .


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

Replacing the HVAC seems complicated... they have to remove a good part of the dashboard. I am afraid it will rattle afterwards. Just like BigSky was saying, "knowing that my dashboard and other miscellaneous parts needed to come out of a new vehicle was not a pleasant thought."

As of today, after exchanging my 2011 for a 2013 and ending up with the same problem, hearing my dealer say they don't smell any coolant makes me mad again. I even printed out the PI0935 and handed it to them because they were not aware it existed...


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

gt_cristian said:


> Replacing the HVAC seems complicated... they have to remove a good part of the dashboard. I am afraid it will rattle afterwards. Just like BigSky was saying, "knowing that my dashboard and other miscellaneous parts needed to come out of a new vehicle was not a pleasant thought."
> 
> As of today, after exchanging my 2011 for a 2013 and ending up with the same problem, hearing my dealer say they don't smell any coolant makes me mad again. I even printed out the PI0935 and handed it to them because they were not aware it existed...


I believe the Cruze is a solid car and the interior appears to be solid and well designed. I think there are 4 or 5 of us on this forum who now have reported that the HVAC case assembly replacement was successful in eliminating the smell. We have also reported that the procedure was performed with great results and no rattles. I am thinking that if a service department has someone who knows what they are doing, that your car will be fine and most likely not experience any problems after the job is done. The dashboard area appears to be pretty solid so, I am thinking the odds of any rattles may be slim, but anything is possible. 

Identifying the problem may be a process in narrowing down either the engine compartment or HVAC case assembly, but with a good technician and service department you will get the job done with good results. I believe since the problem has now been identified, the next hurdle will be dealing with your local dealership. They need to be on board and have the knowledge and expertise to tackle this issue. If your dealership appears that they are not able to support your case, then someone in GM needs to make something happen. I did have a great GM customer service rep and she did contact the dealership on a weekly basis to coordinate my case. I feel like I just didn't have the best service or results with anyone above her level to answer my questions when she wasn't able to help me. So, if your dealership appears to be in the "dark" I would at least start with your GM customer service rep. Your problem needs to be addressed and I don't think GM will allow a dealership to set "idle" now and not handle your case when there appears to be a resolution to the problem. Now this issue is not "what is the problem" it may be "how to take care of the problem" at the local level and hopefully this is not a burden for Cruze owners in getting this problem resolved.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

gt_cristian said:


> Replacing the HVAC seems complicated... they have to remove a good part of the dashboard. I am afraid it will rattle afterwards.


Although I have not disassembled the entire dashboard, I did disassemble the console, HVAC control, radio trim and removed the radio faceplate and cd player unit. I was very impressed with the robustness of the parts in general. They are all strong parts that are fastened and/or clipped together in a very sturdy manner. If the entire dashboard assembly follows the same design principles I would be fairly confident that rattles would not be an issue after reassembly. Of course, if the technician was to not assemble the dash the same way it came apart by forgetting screws or something, that's a different issue.

Many of the parts I took out had flock tape on them where they mate to other parts, and the wire harnesses all appeared to be wrapped with either flock tape, foam, or some combination of the two. Cars I've worked on in the past have not shown such a level of detail or sturdy design with regards to plastic trim, etc.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The tech who did the swap on my Cruze said the only thing to watch out for is that the A/C control unit and the PDIM use the same style and color control plug. It took him some time to figure out why my A/C didn't work during reassembly.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

BigSkyMontana said:


> I believe the Cruze is a solid car and the interior appears to be solid and well designed. I think there are 4 or 5 of us on this forum who now have reported that the HVAC case assembly replacement was successful in eliminating the smell. We have also reported that the procedure was performed with great results and no rattles. I am thinking that if a service department has someone who knows what they are doing, that your car will be fine and most likely not experience any problems after the job is done. The dashboard area appears to be pretty solid so, I am thinking the odds of any rattles may be slim, but anything is possible.
> 
> Identifying the problem may be a process in narrowing down either the engine compartment or HVAC case assembly, but with a good technician and service department you will get the job done with good results. I believe since the problem has now been identified, the next hurdle will be dealing with your local dealership. They need to be on board and have the knowledge and expertise to tackle this issue. If your dealership appears that they are not able to support your case, then someone in GM needs to make something happen. I did have a great GM customer service rep and she did contact the dealership on a weekly basis to coordinate my case. I feel like I just didn't have the best service or results with anyone above her level to answer my questions when she wasn't able to help me. So, if your dealership appears to be in the "dark" I would at least start with your GM customer service rep. Your problem needs to be addressed and I don't think GM will allow a dealership to set "idle" now and not handle your case when there appears to be a resolution to the problem. Now this issue is not "what is the problem" it may be "how to take care of the problem" at the local level and hopefully this is not a burden for Cruze owners in getting this problem resolved.


It's GMs responsibility to make sure all dealers know about this issue and the fix for it. You, the customer, should not have to jump through hoops and repeatedly return to the dealer to finally get it fixed properly.
You may the patience of Job and kudos to you, but most people will throw the middle finger at GM and never buy one of their vehicles again.
There are lots of choices to make out there and GM isn't in any position to piss even more people off


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

steve333 said:


> It's GMs responsibility to make sure all dealers know about this issue and the fix for it. You, the customer, should not have to jump through hoops and repeatedly return to the dealer to finally get it fixed properly.
> You may the patience of Job and kudos to you, but most people will throw the middle finger at GM and never buy one of their vehicles again.
> There are lots of choices to make out there and GM isn't in any position to piss even more people off



EXACTLY! It should NOT be up to the CUSTOMER to go into the dealer with the PI number and whatever else they can find here to INFORM their dealer! This is GMs job! Shame on GM for not keeping their dealers in the loop! GM should penalize these dealers who act like jerks and think that the customer knows nothing and they have all the answers!

BSM- you did indeed have a 5 STAR dealer! I think you should post the name of this dealer so that anyone else in Montana who might be looking for a Cruze will know that the service department is top notch!


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm sorry, I keep trying to stay out of this stuff, but this ignorance issue with the Chevy service departments is not just GM's fault. GM makes many, many offerings available to the dealerships for information flow and education. Many, many dealerships don't bother with them. Last month, TechLink reported that many dealerships were still running outdated, unsupported software. There is a weekly "Emerging Issues" webcast, but it seems few dealerships log in to it. Is it any wonder they can't/won't be knowledgeable about problems? Remember, they are franchises and are not owned by Chevy or GM. If they really legally misbehave, Chevy can pull a franchise, but they aren't really making them toe a mark. I'd say it's Chevrolet that is at fault here with all of the reported bad service experiences you see. Have you seen the TV and print ads being run this month about "Chevy Certified Service"? Does anyone know what that entails? The web site has absolutely nothing on it about certification criteria. 

The problem for the customer is, you don't know you are dealing with a bad Chevy service department until you waste your time and money on them. There is no way for a customer to know until they get the short end of the service stick. Your sales experience is dependent on how knowledgeable you are about buying a car. You shouldn't have to be an ASE Certified Mechanic to get good service at a Chevy dealer. Chevy isn't doing a proper job on the service end of the business. 

Now I'll shut up.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> I'm sorry, I keep trying to stay out of this stuff, but this ignorance issue with the Chevy service departments is not just GM's fault. GM makes many, many offerings available to the dealerships for information flow and education. Many, many dealerships don't bother with them. Last month, TechLink reported that many dealerships were still running outdated, unsupported software. There is a weekly "Emerging Issues" webcast, but it seems few dealerships log in to it. Is it any wonder they can't/won't be knowledgeable about problems? Remember, they are franchises and are not owned by Chevy or GM. If they really legally misbehave, Chevy can pull a franchise, but they aren't really making them toe a mark. I'd say it's Chevrolet that is at fault here with all of the reported bad service experiences you see. Have you seen the TV and print ads being run this month about "Chevy Certified Service"? Does anyone know what that entails? The web site has absolutely nothing on it about certification criteria. I'll shut up now.



I've said it a thousand times before and I'll say it again! There MUST be something in these franchise agreements that gives GM the UPPER HAND here when it comes to service! If GM can make the dealers spend $$$$$$ to redo their buildings so that every Chevy dealer looks the same with their blue/silver buildings, they can certainly do something to get these inept dealers on the ball! MAYBE, someone needs to get OUT of their IVORY TOWERS in Michigan and hit the road OR hit these dealers in the pocketbook if they do not sign in to these webcasts or update their computer systems! Something is just not right here! The other part to this dilemma is the dealership OWNER! It is HIS responsibility to see that the people working for him are up to date with EVERYTHING that GM is offering them!

I've been seeing these Chevy Certified Service commercials a lot lately too! More PR like the 4 million miles of testing!:angry:


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

I too laugh at those commercials after all the negative things regarding the Chevy/GM "certified service" that I've heard on here.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

What's interesting is that most GM dealerships are good and do honestly try to take care of their customers' cars. What we get here are reports of the worst dealerships as well as the few flat out outstanding dealerships.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Well I got my new surge tank installed yesterday. I'm still waiting on the new cap to come in, but that's a simple swap later this week when it gets here.

A couple pics. The first is of the drain kak (**** is not allowed) on the radiator. It points rearward instead of down, which makes it tough to drain without getting coolant all over the lower rad support. I came up with a quick and easy solution to this:

This is a piece of 3/8" wire loom about 5" long. I couldn't find a piece of hose or anything else that would work, but this worked great. It might not stay in place if the drain kak was all the way open and coolant was pouring out at full flow, so holding it in place somehow might be necessary.

Here's a shot of the surge tank. As it drained I tilted it up on an angle to get all the coolant out, only to find I couldn't get all the coolant out! The way the baffles are set up inside, when you tip it up like this some coolant gets trapped in the front. Funny enough, I kept draining more out of the rad and the tank stayed at the same level, as seen here:


Anyway, I did a good bit of stop and go "city" type driving today without the heater on so the car got good and hot. I'm happy to say that, based on today's driving, I have not smelled any coolant with the new tank. A little more time will be necessary before confirming the fix, but it certainly seems good so far.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Finally odor free after 25K miles. I ran my defroster this morning on full hot and full blower for as long as I could stand the heat. Then I switched it over to defrost & footwell. Then I switched back to defrost only. No odors of any kind. I didn't even have chemical odors from the mold/mildew cleaning I had done a month or so ago. I also took Rob's advise and had some of the coolant removed last Friday. I didn't have an exterior odor either.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Snowy weekend with low temps. Had the opportunity to run the heater this weekend in all mode settings. Burnt plastic rubber smell finally gone and odor free cabin. After 8700+ miles I can finally say "GOODBYE" to the engine compartment and cabin smell. No rattles and everything appears to be "operating as designed." Time to move on


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Snowy weekend with low temps. Had the opportunity to run the heater this weekend in all mode settings. Burnt plastic rubber smell finally gone and odor free cabin. After 8700+ miles I can finally say "GOODBYE" to the engine compartment and cabin smell. No rattles and everything appears to be "operating as designed." Time to move on


Wonderful. Don't be a stranger here.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> Wonderful. Don't be a stranger here.


I will still be here. I have found that this is a great community and many are working together to share their achievements and disappointments. When I joined this community my intentions were to learn and hopefully be part of the solution. I have gained a lot of knowledge from other members and hopefully what I've shared will be helpful in providing some insight to this "smell" issue. I have been primarily focused on this thread since I joined. Now I will move around the forum more often and enjoy the other topics. I am sure I will learn more about my Cruze and other interesting issues.

For those who continue to tackle this issue I hope you will have success in getting this issue resolved. There are solutions now and I contribute the success of where I am at today based on the information I have received on this forum. Just imagine if we didn't have this type of media technology at our fingertips today! Many of us would still be trying to solve this issue, but with the technology at our fingertips, the problem has finally been resolved.

Since I first purchased the car, my wife finally drove it yesterday for the second time (first was the test drive before purchase). She has her own vehicle (2012 Honda Odyssey). After we finally resolved the smell issue she was looking forward to driving the car. She was impressed with the car and more importantly extremely excited that I am not dealing with this issue any longer!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Your patience and relationship with your dealership were definitely part of this solution. :goodjob:


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

obermd said:


> Your patience and relationship with your dealership were definitely part of this solution. :goodjob:


Yes, you are absolutely right! I am in the process of generating a letter to the general manager of my dealership to recognize the individuals who supported me through this process.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Yes, you are absolutely right! I am in the process of generating a letter to the general manager of my dealership to recognize the individuals who supported me through this process.


cc to Chevrolet Motor Division is called for as well........btw your dealer is a Prince!

Rob


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

BigSkyMontana said:


> Yes, you are absolutely right! I am in the process of generating a letter to the general manager of my dealership to recognize the individuals who supported me through this process.


You should send a copy to Akerson too! Maybe it will do some good OR maybe even make him aware of the problem to begin with!


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

Akerson is a moron. If he didn't initiate action by now himself it's clear he couldn't care less about GM or its customers. He's got his millions for mediocrity


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> You should send a copy to Akerson too! Maybe it will do some good OR maybe even make him aware of the problem to begin with!





steve333 said:


> Akerson is a moron. If he didn't initiate action by now himself it's clear he couldn't care less about GM or its customers. He's got his millions for mediocrity


You guys are hilarious… why on earth do you think the CEO of one of the world's largest companies would have a quality control issue like this on their radar? The CEO is not paid to deal with things like this, he is paid to manage the HUGE firm known as General Motors. Ackerson would be doing a great diservice to the 200,000+ employees of GM if he were to get sidetracked into this stuff. There are many layers of management between him and this issue, the _bottom_ of which are the ones who are supposed to look after these types of things.

If you wish to comment on this, send me a PM. *Please don't further dilute this otherwise constructive thread.*


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Yesterday our 8th winter storm since the beginning of March blew in and this morning it was in the low 20s with 3-4 inches of snow on the roads. I had to turn my heater down - not for odor, but because it was sweating me out of my car. At this point I have tested my A/C, all the vents options, blower speeds, and heater and can safely say my car is finally odor free.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Today in the 50s. I just turned the heater on to get the "no odor thrills". Never thought I would enjoy playing with a heater so much:yahoo:


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

Nice! I am taking mine back in tomorrow to have them look at the cooling system again. I get the stinky smell in the engine compartment and my garage smells nasty for a few hours after shut down. Coolant level is down to the 2nd (from the bottom) mark and was filled last time it was in for this problem- about 2-3k miles ago.

I will show them some clips from this thread and big kudos to BSM for helping figure out a resolution. I am going to ask them to replace the surge tank and cap to see if it solves my problem. Wish me luck... :hope:


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

milehigh said:


> I am going to ask them to replace the surge tank and cap to see if it solves my problem. Wish me luck... :hope:


Before getting the tank replaced, check the inside of the cap area for a rough surface where the o-ring sits. If the surface is smooth and a new tank/cap fixes your problem it was probably the cap. If the tank has a rough spot and the problem gets fixed, it was probably the tank. See pics earlier in the thread. Either way I hope you get the problem sorted out!

I replaced my tank on the weekend and have had no venting since. This is with the coolant properly topped up and still using the OLD cap. I picked up a new cap just as insurance but have yet to put it on.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

milehigh said:


> Nice! I am taking mine back in tomorrow to have them look at the cooling system again. I get the stinky smell in the engine compartment and my garage smells nasty for a few hours after shut down. Coolant level is down to the 2nd (from the bottom) mark and was filled last time it was in for this problem- about 2-3k miles ago.
> 
> I will show them some clips from this thread and big kudos to BSM for helping figure out a resolution. I am going to ask them to replace the surge tank and cap to see if it solves my problem. Wish me luck... :hope:


Hopefully your service department will get things right for you. I do want to give credit where credit is due and commutertg and his dealership deserve the credit for discovering the HVAC lube issue. Thanks for the kudos, it was this community that kept me motivated and determined to help figure out the engine compartment issue with my car. Hopefully, this thread will help you and your service department get your engine compartment smell issue under control. As Blue Angel posted, check your tank and cap. I happened to "stumble" across a cap problem (speculating it was bad O-rings) after I replaced my tank and cap. I noticed that my coolant smell literally dissipated after I replaced both. Silver Streak had a great idea to swap caps out and see what surfaces. After I swapped out my cap and put the old one back on the coolant smell returned. So, as you can see much credit goes to other members who have had great suggestions, ideas, and successes in troubleshooting and overcoming this "smell" issue. I do think there is enough information on this thread to help anyone troubleshoot the problem and find a solution. Glad you are using the resources off this forum to help you and possibly your dealership.


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## 1990tsi (Apr 29, 2011)

I can't wait till I can stop posting in this thread!!

I dropped my car off today for the dissapearing coolant issue, and the oil leaking from throttle body after new engine install.... oh and to get the scratches taken care of that happened while the engine was getting installed (right rear quarter...?)

and when i called at 4 to see if they were delivering me 'the rental' or my car, they said they had put a call into hotline(ford term, i'm not sure what they call it at GM) and would call me back when they have a resolution!! 

My dealer has been pretty good with me up until very recently. they'd give me a rental when needed or at least give me a ride to work and deliver which ever car to me, but today they dropped off my car, and the poor parts guy asked for a ride back to work. I was shocked that they didn't send someone to pick him up (like last time) so the ford parts guy had to drive the GM parts guy back to his dealer haha.

And they did a full detail on the outside of the car, i know this because they left wax all over the **** car (white car, fair enough) and it's quite obvious now that the scratches are actually dented and the car needs paint now....

so i'm at a loss now. as taylor swift would say, this is exhausting. I hate this car soo much now, if and when they do fix it i will always hate it. They've had the car more than I have in the last 2 months and I'm worse off now than before!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

1990tsi said:


> They've had the car more than I have in the last 2 months and I'm worse off now than before!


There's no excuse for the lack of customer service, and definitely no excuse for scratching/denting your car. That's BS. You should be in touch with GM Canada and tell them about two things... 1. your less than satisfactory dealership experience, and 2. the fact that you've had the car in several times for each of multiple complaints.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

For those of you still experiencing the coolant issue and are making NO progress with your dealer, maybe you should contact this reporter with your story and see what happens or contact Rick Sherf directly at [email protected]

Drivers report nauseating stench in Chevy Cruze | www.wsbtv.com


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> ...I did a good bit of stop and go "city" type driving today without the heater on so the car got good and hot. I'm happy to say that, based on today's driving, I have not smelled any coolant with the new tank. A little more time will be necessary before confirming the fix, but it certainly seems good so far.


Well, ten days later, the weather is in the mid-high 20's C (~80F), and I have yet to catch a single wiff of coolant vapor, either inside the car, outside the car, or under the hood. I washed the car tonight and did a quick wash under hood as well. The vent cover on the side of the tank is bone dry without a trace of condensation or dry coolant... no venting has taken place since the tank swap.

*I now feel very confident in saying that my personal coolant smell issue, though slight compared to some, was solved by replacing the surge tank with a new one with no defect in the cap seal area.*

I would urge anyone with an underhood or outside the car coolant smell issue to go to the dealer and request a new surge tank that does not have any defects as pictured in my previous threads. Since BigSkyMontana appears to have had his issue cleared up by replacing the tank cap, it wouldn't hurt to suggest to your dealer to install both a new tank and cap. I installed a new cap as well, but that was days after my tank swap and I had no odors using the old cap with my new tank.

For those who are having HVAC lube related odor issues (the ones that seem to come and go based on heater use and vent position), there is a fix involving the replacement of the HVAC case with a new one that uses a new lubricant that does not smell when heated.

If you have issues that are resolved at the dealer, please post your experiences and what fix was performed to cure your issue. The more info we have the better!


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

My dealer changed out my tank and cap per my request via this thread. So far, the smell is improved, but I still have it in the engine bay & my garage. I'll try dropping the level from the max level down to min and see if that helps...


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## blackcruzelt (Dec 13, 2012)

fastdriver said:


> For those of you still experiencing the coolant issue and are making NO progress with your dealer, maybe you should contact this reporter with your story and see what happens!
> 
> Drivers report nauseating stench in Chevy Cruze | www.wsbtv.com


HAHA, glad to see its now on the news! Maybe GM will get off their butt and get it fixed now.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

milehigh said:


> My dealer changed out my tank and cap per my request via this thread. So far, the smell is improved, but I still have it in the engine bay & my garage. I'll try dropping the level from the max level down to min and see if that helps...


milehigh, did you check the inside of the surge tank for defects as per the pics in my previous posts? If the cap seal is functioning properly there should be no venting of coolant vapor at all so lowering your coolant level may not change anything. An easy check for venting is to look at the vent cover on the tank (the little plastic "deflector" pointing away from the cap on the driver's side). If that vent cover is dry and there are no signs of dried coolant (whitish orange deposits) then the tank is not venting.

One thing to keep in mind; if the surge tank was just replaced there is most likely some coolant that was spilled inside the engine bay. This coolant will emit an odor until it is completely dry. It may help to take a hose and gently rinse the engine compartment, paying attention to rinse the top of the transmission and all other items around the surge tank. If your underbody shield has not been cut per the recall there could be coolant pooled up there as well.

Use a gentle shower setting on the sprayer nozzle if possible; it is not recommended to use a high velocity spray under hood as this could force water into wiring connections. A gentle but thorough rinse is completely safe and may get rid of that last little bit of colant smell. The dealer should have done this when the work was completed, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

Even without rinsing the smell of any spilled coolant should pass after a few days of driving the car, if spilled coolant is the source of the smell.


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## dby2011 (May 14, 2011)

I still find it interesting that all the other GM cars thst use the 1.4 turbo have the surge tank in the front of the engine compartment.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

dby2011 said:


> I still find it interesting that all the other GM cars thst use the 1.4 turbo have the surge tank in the front of the engine compartment.


I don't think there's anything worth reading into there... it's just packaging. The surge tank is just a reservoir; all the heat producing items in the coolant's path are what will affect the system. As long as they're able to place the surge tank above the coolant level in the rest of the system (highest point) I don't think it matters where the tank is located.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## loops120 (Sep 10, 2012)

I had my car fixed of this problem I have a 2012 Cruze RS 6MT noticed a smell after i parked my car walking into the house, so i checked and I was down a full line gap from full took it in they couldn't tell at the time but could smell it so they filled it up with some dye in the coolant took about 4000 km to be down enough to take it, which was in between the full line and the second line down. they looked at it, had to take all the pulley's off to see the small leak on the water pump seeping out to me what looks like a frost plug on the water pump itself but was not a frost plug obviously, they swapped me out a new pump had to take maybe another 5000km for the smell to go away under the hood, but seems good so far "knock on wood" and I've gone about 10,000 k since the fix hope this helps anyone with the problem, mine was a very slow leak if I knew nothing about cars It probably would have gone unnoticed for a while..


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

loops120 said:


> I had my car fixed of this problem... ...had to take all the pulley's off to see the small leak on the water pump... ...take maybe another 5000km for the smell to go away under the hood...


Great to hear of another successful fix!

You bring up an excellent point about the smell taking a while to go away after the work was done. I will re-state in bold for everyone's benefit:

*AFTER HAVING ANY SERVICE DONE TO YOUR CAR'S COOLING SYSTEM, ASK THE DEALER TO RINSE THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT.* Any spilled coolant will hang around and smell for quite some time after the fix is complete. This can make it seem that the problem was not corrected!

If they resist, tell them you don't need them to wash and detail the engine, just a quick rinse to get rid of any coolant left hanging around.

I used to work at GM Oshawa Plant and grew up in Port Perry. I moved to Ottawa a few years ago.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

I checked the Sonic forum and apparently they are having the same issues, both engines. Amazing


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I bet the Sonic is using the same HVAC ducting the Cruze uses. In addition, since the engine is the same there will be a lot of common parts between the two, so if the Cruze has a batch of bad water pumps, the Sonic will as well. Likewise the steering notchiness reported in the Cruze has also been reported in the Volt.


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## rfruth (Dec 1, 2012)

Dumb question - does coolant circulate thru the heater core all the time or only when you want hot air ? (I use the heat little to none here in south Texas so this may not affect me) ?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Coolant always circulates through the cabin heater core. The HVAC lubricant is unrelated to the heater core.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Let me make this simple for everyone in this thread. 



XtremeRevolution said:


> This is Version 2 of the Antifreeze Smell Thread. Due to the sheer length of the original thread (in excess of 100 pages), it has exhausted its usefulness and has been locked.
> 
> This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the antifreeze smell that some of us are experiencing with our Cruze. You are free to complain or vent frustration, but not free to do so excessively or to troll. I understand that for many of you, this is a big concern and a huge inconvenience, but in the interest of everyone's sanity and of maintaining a positive environment, keep your complaints limited. Believe me when I say we've heard them already, in every possible variety you can imagine.
> 
> ...


*Anyone who takes this thread off-topic will earn themselves a 3-day vacation from this forum. Repeat offenders will earn themselves a 7-day vacation. You will not receive a warning!
*
This is not the thread to tell us about how much you hate the/your Cruze. 
This is not the thread to tell us about how many problems you think the Cruze has. 
This is not the thread to tell us about how you just traded in your Cruze and rid yourself of "headaches." 
If you do not own a Cruze and have no interest in helping others resolve their issues, you have no business here. Telling people to sell their car and buy something else is not considered helping. 

I already locked the first thread because it went too far off-topic, and I made it very clear at the beginning of this thread what its purpose is. If you wish to discuss something outside the scope of this thread, create a new thread.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Update:

Three weeks have passed since my HVAC case assembly R/R. Everything continues to function great and engine compartment and cabin remain odor free.

While working with my service manager through the antifreeze/lube issues in the engine compartment and cabin I asked my service manager to work an extended warranty for me. Today I received a letter from Chevy Customer Assistance Center (on behalf of my dealership). My bumper-to-bumper warranty was extended an additional 4 yrs/up to 83,000+ miles into 2018. So, it has paid big dividends working side-by-side with my service manager and his service department. 

Additionally, I wrote a letter to the general manager of my dealership to recognize the work that my service manager and the service department accomplished to fix my coolant/lube issues. Upon receiving the letter the general manager of my dealership took the time to personally meet and greet me thanking me for the letter. I hope others will share the same experience with their dealership.

There are some great dealerships out there who do care for their customers and want to provide great services to work through this coolant/lube issue. If you have had a positive experience with your dealership while working through this issue, I encourage you to post your positive experience on this thread.


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

You should also write to GM/Chevy and tell them about your great dealership and let them know just how they went above and beyond to understand and ultimately with success, address the severity of your antifreeze issue. 

The way your dealership kept you informed, worked with you side by side on the issue, and tried every solution they could until the problem was solved, is awesome and should be the rule at Chevy dealerships, not the exception. Chevy needs to know about the good dealerships (like yours) out there so that they can be rewarded and recognized and get positive reinforcement for continuing to do things the right and fair way. Too many dealerships give Chevy a bad name so it'll be nice if they know of one that still puts GM in a good light.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

Starks8 said:


> You should also write to GM/Chevy and tell them about your great dealership and let them know just how they went above and beyond to understand and ultimately with success, address the severity of your antifreeze issue.


A letter is in the works heading up-channel. It is the right thing to recognize those dealerships who are making a positive difference. Hopefully, those dealerships who lack the skills, motivation, and commitment to honor their customers will get some support from upper management to be successful in managing and providing the services they're expected to deliver. It would be productive to see more positive dealership postings on this thread regarding the coolant/lube issue.


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

Update;

I have had all of the coolant smell repairs done by my dealer. They include the revised overflow tank venting, HVAC box, heater core and water pump replaced. The odor was definately lessened. Thought it may actually have been eliminated. I was wrong. I had not used the heater for several weeks. Today, after 20 minutes of driving, I slid the temp control to hot and the fan to low. Two minutes later both my wife and I had to roll down the windows. The smell was as bad as ever. Drove straight to my dealer. Manager went for a ride and admitted, in writing on the repair order, that the car cabin smells like coolant.

Anyone else have all these items replaced and still have the smell? Or does my service manager's parting comment say it all, "that's quite the car you've got there".


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

upstater - did your dealership replace the insulation surrounding the heater core and under the front footwell areas? If not, you may be getting "hold over" coolant odor. Also, was the cabin air filter replaced? Although these are possible, I wonder if the new HVAC box wasn't new and had the old glycol based lubricant.


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## upstater (Feb 22, 2011)

obermd said:


> upstater - did your dealership replace the insulation surrounding the heater core and under the front footwell areas? If not, you may be getting "hold over" coolant odor. Also, was the cabin air filter replaced? Although these are possible, I wonder if the new HVAC box wasn't new and had the old glycol based lubricant.


Cabin filter was replaced. Dealer said heater core showed zero signs of leakage so no on the matting. The car has zero smells when the heat is on and the engine temp is below normal operating on the guage. Today the HVAC box had no heat going thru it for the first 20 minutes. I slid the temperature knob to hot after it was at full temp on the engine.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

upstater - if the correct HVAC case assembly was installed you will have an odor initially when running the heater. It will take some time for this odor to dissipate. Mine took several heating cycles before the odor was clear. Others whom have had the case R/R have reported the same. After my HVAC case assembly was replaced I took the time to run the heater through all the mode and fan settings to help clear the "new grease" smell. Maybe this is what you are smelling--maybe not. Also, there may be a way to confirm if the correct case was installed. My case identified the new grease on the side of the case. If the supplier is consistent when marking all new case assemblies in the same locations, you may find an identification marking located on the lower right bottom of the case assembly (passenger side). You may be able to see this marking by removing the right lower center console panel or have your dealership take a look. This is where my marking is located and reads (New Grease Uniflor 8172). Apparently, Uniflor 8172 is the replacement grease--at least in my case (See posting #742, pic #3 on this thread). If I have the case oriented correctly, this would be the correct location to possibly confirm if you have an updated case installed. There is always a possibility that the wrong case or lube was utilized. Let's hope this isn't your case if this appears to still be the issue.


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## 1981fxb (Sep 10, 2012)

I posted about my 2011 Cruze having the antifreeze smell. After 7 trips to two different dealerships the problem was fixed. they installed the PI that vents the pressure from the antifreeze tank under the car. This required the mechanic to do a dye test(fourth time). This mechanic decided to take a closer look at the heater core and he found a crack in part of the core!!!!! With the new heater core and the PI installed, I only get the smell every once and a while at speeds below 30mph. I have am very happy with my car now. If you get the antifreeze smell and your windows fog up while driving, you have a bad heater core!!!!! I have experience with heat exchanger manufacturing and I believe that the manufacture of these had some problems with the early exchangers. It took about a week for all of the smell to dissipate. I wish you all luck with this. Thanks to Bradshaw Chevy for your great mechanic. It has been two months and I have no smell now.


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## BigSkyMontana (Jan 5, 2013)

I sent Chevy.com an email requesting additional information to process my letter to recognize my service department for the awesome job they did in fixing my antifreeze/lube issue. Chevy Customer Assistance Center actually opened a service request case to process my letter. They contacted me both by phone and email to assist me in coordinating a contact to process this letter. I was expecting a point of contact at the Chevy management level to receive my letter. This week I received an email from the Chevy Customer Assistance Team. The email was to send my correspondence to the CEO, Mr. Akerson. So, the letter will head his way. It would be nice if not only my Chevy dealership service department, but all Chevy dealerships receive recognition by upper management when they do an outstanding job. Maybe this is happening. There are great dealerships doing a good job and if Mr. Akerson and his staff take the time to acknowledge the dealerships doing good work then this is good sound management and everyone benefits. Hopefully, any comments to this posting will be positive and antifreeze related. This is a great forum to share your positive experiences.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

The issue now is, will GM be replacing every heater core with a redesigned one or are they going to keep using the same faulty parts and cross their fingers?
My experience with GM suggests the latter. That's the main issue with GM-they don't permanently take care of the problem.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

steve333 said:


> The issue now is, will GM be replacing every heater core with a redesigned one or are they going to keep using the same faulty parts and cross their fingers?
> My experience with GM suggests the latter. That's the main issue with GM-they don't permanently take care of the problem.


The part itself is not faulty. The new part is exactly the same but with a different lubricant.


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## steve333 (Oct 23, 2010)

obermd said:


> The part itself is not faulty. The new part is exactly the same but with a different lubricant.


I thought they had a leak? Will they change the lubricant used?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Steve, take a look at my summary of problems at http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...e-cabin-odors-sources-resolution-summary.html. There are multiple possible sources of cabin odor. Some cars may have none, in which case they won't have any cabin odors. Some will have one source and some, such as my ECO MT, will have more than one source of odor.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm closing this thread. Please continue discussion in http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...e-cabin-odors-sources-resolution-summary.html.


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