# Gen 1 diesel Ac working on and off



## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

You're getting low on freon. Possibly. 

Buy a can with a hookup..SMALL can as you only need 3 ounces tops.

Don't be shoving the whole can in there. You're just asking for problems. 

If you're smart. You'll take it to professional and have it done right. With gauges.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> You're getting low on freon. Possibly.
> 
> Buy a can with a hookup..SMALL can as you only need 3 ounces tops.
> 
> ...


You think so? But it’s a 2015 with no accident, and the system has never been touched or opened

Nah I don’t add a cab, I just bring it to a good ac shop or dealer. Any idea what the pressures should be as per GM?

I figured it may be a electronic part of the equation.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

May be a failing compressor variable displacement solenoid. I don’t know if the diesel uses a different compressor than the gas motors, but I suspect it might. 

This was super common with Sanden compressors on VW products. Give it a rev at idle to 2500-3000 and see if the AC kicks on.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Freon doesn't last forever. 

Most cars I've seen after 2010. Won't even maintain a full charge. My cruze and my Hyundai before. Always needed an ounce every year.


High side is 250 with fan running. 
If you do today's regulation lawful method of charging the system. Which is to drain and refill with a vent leak check during the process.. You end up at 255. On the cruze. My sons Mazda ended up at 275.

The system won't maintain more then 180. But over time. That drops down too.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> May be a failing compressor variable displacement solenoid. I don’t know if the diesel uses a different compressor than the gas motors, but I suspect it might.
> 
> This was super common with Sanden compressors on VW products. Give it a rev at idle to 2500-3000 and see if the AC kicks on.


Not sure about what compress is used. I’ll try it. What’s ofd is some morning it turns on just fine as if nothing, recently it just won’t kick on. That’s what leads me to a electrical side of things.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Freon doesn't last forever.
> 
> Most cars I've seen after 2010. Won't even maintain a full charge. My cruze and my Hyundai before. Always needed an ounce every year.
> 
> ...


Definitely I get it’s not a infinite timeframe, but 6 years seems a bit short. I’d rather do a drain and check for vent leaks, this way it can be fixed vs adding more and more later


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> Not sure about what compress is used. I’ll try it. What’s ofd is some morning it turns on just fine as if nothing, recently it just won’t kick on. That’s what leads me to a electrical side of things.


Yes, our Jetta (and my brother's TDI now) was the same way. Randomly would blow hot air until you got it out on the road and got the RPMs up and suddenly the compressor would kick in and work for the rest of the drive without an issue. And then sometimes it just worked fine from the start. A $30 solenoid, install, and evac/recharge fixed it right up.

Just a long shot. Could be a pressure sensor or something else sporadic, as well.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

pandrad61 said:


> Definitely I get it’s not a infinite timeframe, but 6 years seems a bit short. I’d rather do a drain and check for vent leaks, this way it can be fixed vs adding more and more later



Most don't get 6. Consider yourself lucky.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Most don't get 6. Consider yourself lucky.


That’s so disappointing to hear modern AC can’t even go 6 years without problems. It’s one thing if the manual stayed X maintenance of the system and I skipped. However I’ve been diligent in maintaining it


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Most don't get 6. Consider yourself lucky.


My Cobalt's is fine, it's 14 years old. Our Cruze's is fine, too. 

That said: my brother's '01 Century has a leak somewhere - I put in like half the remainder of a bottle I had in to even get the compressor to start working, and I think his '01 Mustang has a similarly low amount of refrigerant. My '98 Cavalier (which is why I had that can of refrigerant) probably was fine, but the compressor clutch didn't work, so I just bought the non-AC belt and bypassed it entirely. Thinking about it now, I may have just needed to put more into the system so the compressor would work. Oh well.

I believe the system on my '81 Z28 was working when I got the car, but I'm pretty sure the R12 leaked out when I did my headers, due to how it mounted. Haven't tried since to see if it does work or not. It's a good reason to change to a lighter aluminum compressor.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I have cars that are way over 6 with no problems... just out of curiosity have you ever taken a leak detector to it.. could just be a crappy seal from factory?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> I have cars that are way over 6 with no problems... just out of curiosity have you ever taken a leak detector to it.. could just be a crappy seal from factory?


Same I’ve had 80-90’s car still working ac today. Nope not yet, working in medical I just don’t have the time to DIY diagnostic like I use to. If it’s not wash wax, brakes, oil change, it goes to the shop.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I've never had anything leak besides Honda products (which are known for crappy AC systems) and 20+ year old Euro products. My Cruze blows just as cold as the day I bought it at 5 yo.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Definitely I get it’s not a infinite timeframe, but 6 years seems a bit short. I’d rather do a drain and check for vent leaks, this way it can be fixed vs adding more and more later


Frankly its amazing they dont leak more often.

We cant even keep helium in small tanks for more than a few years cause it will literally leak through even the most perfect weld. Even cracks so small they take electron microscopes to see at all.

R134 is a quite a bit bigger. But you get the idea.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I must be buying junk cars. Cuz my last 2 get an ounce every year.

And my sons new car. Never worked properly. 
Hot on the drivers side and barely cold on the passenger side.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

So revels it up to 2,500 to start the ac and didn’t make a difference. Looked under hood and the interior display and panel show ac on but compressor won’t engage. Fuse 62 ac is fine and the top left relay for ac by #1 doesn’t look melted or off. I’m gonna try new fuse and relay just to rule them out.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Tried new AC relay and that’s not it.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

pandrad61 said:


> Not sure about what compress is used. I’ll try it. What’s ofd is some morning it turns on just fine as if nothing, recently it just won’t kick on. That’s what leads me to a electrical side of things.


Well the system works on pressure. Some mornings are hotter than other mornings. Temperature plays a big roll in how much the refrigerant expands. It's actually the entire concept of refrigerant. If there is not enough pressure in the system it won't kick on. Go to any store and buy a can with a Guage on it. Add some to the system and see if the clutch engages. If it does then you were low. You can look up online R-134 temp/pressure charts. You fill to that designated pressure and call it a day. It'll cost about 20$ for a can that comes with a Guage. 
The button in car just says that your commanding a/c the light does not recieve signal back saying ok the air is on. It is simply there to say ok you pushed the button.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

The can with the gauge isn't the right equipment. 

That high pressure gauge is what tells you the charge. Without that you're guessing. 

And being how these cars don't hold much to begin with. It wouldn't take much to overcharge it and shut down the compressor. 

I agree with your post though. I think he's low on freon also. And might not even have enough to kick the compressor on.

But he feels like freon lasts forever.
Freon is just like anything else.
Nothing lasts forever.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

snowwy66 said:


> The can with the gauge isn't the right equipment.
> 
> That high pressure gauge is what tells you the charge. Without that you're guessing.
> 
> ...


Ambient low side high side

110°50-55 psi335-345 psi105°50-55 psi325-335 psi100°50-55 psi300-325 psi95°50-55 psi275-300 psi90°50-55 psi250-275 psi85°50-55 psi220-250 psi80°45-50 psi175-220 psi75°40-45 psi150-175 psi70°35-40 psi140-165 psi65°25-35 psi135-155 psi

Unless there's something I'm unaware of on cruzes you can pull a pressure on either side.
The only time you need to compare high and low side numbers is when the compressor is running. High and low side correlation will help you to determine if you have a blockage in the system, or if your components are not exchanging heat properly.

The can with the Guage may be a bit crude. But it's 20$ vs 100+ for a set of guages


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> The can with the gauge isn't the right equipment.
> 
> That high pressure gauge is what tells you the charge. Without that you're guessing.
> 
> ...



I do agree the can gauges won’t cut it. There is a proper tool for proper diagnostic. I don’t think it lasts forever, and I don’t like having words put in my mouth. I just expected it to let more then 6 years. When I worked at Chevy ac problems where not something I saw 6 years in, bad cooling fans sure and controls for the system but not in the Freon side of things.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

pandrad61 said:


> I do agree the can gauges won’t cut it. There is a proper tool for proper diagnostic. I don’t think it lasts forever, and I don’t like having words put in my mouth. I just expected it to let more then 6 years. When I worked at Chevy ac problems where not something I saw 6 years in, bad cooling fans sure and controls for the system but not in the Freon side of things.


It's not that the refrigerant has become completely defective in 6 years. It's that enough has escaped in 6 years that it will no longer start the compressor.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Gauges are $60 at harborfreight. 
Compressor off will give you an idea. On the low side. But system needs to be running. To know the whole picture. 

AND. The 2 pressure fittings aren't the same. 
Low won't hook to high and high won't hook to low.

And that chart isn't accurate.. Nor does it give you the procedure to do an accurate job.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Tried new AC relay and that’s not it.


The ac will not turn on if the pressure sensor (stupidly called pressure switch sometimes) reads too low. Standard behavior.

And yes this doesn’t give a dtc or anything. Yes it’s dumb.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> I do agree the can gauges won’t cut it. There is a proper tool for proper diagnostic. I don’t think it lasts forever, and I don’t like having words put in my mouth. I just expected it to let more then 6 years. When I worked at Chevy ac problems where not something I saw 6 years in, bad cooling fans sure and controls for the system but not in the Freon side of things.


The proper tool is an expensive recharge machine. We don’t even use manifold gauges anymore.

But uh. Money.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> The ac will not turn on if the pressure sensor (stupidly called pressure switch sometimes) reads too low. Standard behavior.
> 
> And yes this doesn’t give a dtc or anything. Yes it’s dumb.


I knew it may be a long shot but it costs me nothing to check fuse and relay. I’d hate to get charged a hour of diag and that was it lol. 

Think next week I may to take it to the Buick dealer for diag and repair. Had the $$ to pay off the car but guess it can wait another month.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> The proper tool is an expensive recharge machine. We don’t even use manifold gauges anymore.
> 
> But uh. Money.


Really? Man times have changed. When I learned mechanics it was proper gauges, guess the machine all in one does cut down labor time and simpler for a shop to use.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Really? Man times have changed. When I learned mechanics it was proper gauges, guess the machine all in one does cut down labor time and simpler for a shop to use.


Too many mechanics blowing refrigerant into the atmosphere. And doing fills based off high and low pressures with an engine running.... In hind sight it's just a bad idea. Far too many variables. Especially now with modern variable displacement compressors.

Residential HVAC still uses the old school. But that's mostly cause it would be a pain in the ass to lug around a giant machine all day.

Anyway. Nothing wrong with a set of manifold gauges if you are familiar with the system.
Now there is digital manifold gauge on the recharge machine buuut its just for your own sanity and verifying compressor operation.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> Too many mechanics blowing refrigerant into the atmosphere. And doing fills based off high and low pressures with an engine running.... In hind sight it's just a bad idea. Far too many variables. Especially now with modern variable displacement compressors.
> 
> Residential HVAC still uses the old school. But that's mostly cause it would be a pain in the ass to lug around a giant machine all day.
> 
> ...


I remember the EPA warnings we got if we just vented to atmosphere by our shop. Big fines if caught.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> I remember the EPA warnings we got if we just vented to atmosphere by our shop. Big fines if caught.


I have honestly never heard nor see anyone be fined for that. You are much more likely to get dinged for not being certified... Said certification you get by paying money and takin a dubious test. I mean maybe 20 years ago the test was actually about repairing but now its basically 'Do not pollute' in scientific paraphrasing.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I took the test. Both times.

And I have digital gauges. Cost some green as everything was sold seperate. I love em. But rarely use em. Gotta wait for power up and calibration.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> I have honestly never heard nor see anyone be fined for that. You are much more likely to get dinged for not being certified... Said certification you get by paying money and takin a dubious test. I mean maybe 20 years ago the test was actually about repairing but now its basically 'Do not pollute' in scientific paraphrasing.


We never had anyone break the rules about it, but we expected that from a dealership. But on paper it wasn’t fun and we didn’t even want to deal with that. Yah unlicensed I could see being a big problem.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> I took the test. Both times.
> 
> And I have digital gauges. Cost some green as everything was sold seperate. I love em. But rarely use em. Gotta wait for power up and calibration.


Nice. You do home/commercial hvac then?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Snipesy said:


> Nice. You do home/commercial hvac then?



Only cars. And you have to be certified to buy more then 2 lbs. Freon. 

I buy the 30 pounders.

Back when 134 came out. You had to be certified to buy any quantity. They took it off the shelves for a few years. 12 too.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> I have honestly never heard nor see anyone be fined for that. You are much more likely to get dinged for not being certified... Said certification you get by paying money and takin a dubious test. I mean maybe 20 years ago the test was actually about repairing but now its basically 'Do not pollute' in scientific paraphrasing.


When I took my hvac classes in college I believe the fine was 10k. But someone had to turn you in. I believe they got reward money too


snowwy66 said:


> Gauges are $60 at harborfreight.
> Compressor off will give you an idea. On the low side. But system needs to be running. To know the whole picture.
> 
> AND. The 2 pressure fittings aren't the same.
> ...


Bud idk what you deal is. Idk where you're coming up with hooking low side guages to high side ports from. I was simply trying to help someone get the air cold again. A static reading with both Guages attached will tell you next to nothing other than the system isn't empty. You need the compressor running before the high side port will tell you anything more valuable than the low side since the number will be the exact same.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> When I took my hvac classes in college I believe the fine was 10k. But someone had to turn you in. I believe they got reward money too
> 
> Bud idk what you deal is. Idk where you're coming up with hooking low side guages to high side ports from. I was simply trying to help someone get the air cold again. A static reading with both Guages attached will tell you next to nothing other than the system isn't empty. You need the compressor running before the high side port will tell you anything more valuable than the low side since the number will be the exact same.


Yep
I know how it works.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> When I took my hvac classes in college I believe the fine was 10k. But someone had to turn you in. I believe they got reward money too


That got cut a long time ago. I mean you can still turn them in but you’re not getting money. Even then it’s unlikely the EPA will do anything about it.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Used to be the same fine for emissions too. 

But smog pumps are a thing of the past and missing cats too unless you're a thief gathering the insides


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## rwagoner (Aug 15, 2020)

Rarely have my cars had issues with AC leaks ... just doesn't happen that often. Never for random leaks. My '99 Silverado never needed any until the compressor was changed, and even then it didn't leak. Cruze is still same since new in 2012. '08 Enclave developed a leak in a tube (crack) but once changed it never leaked again.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Dealer says 1350 OTD. compressor has gone bad. Rest of the system is fine and can be flushed. Compressor is 488 and that to me is outrageous, rear is labor. 5.9hr at 145 an hour.

No leaks in system.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> Dealer says 1350 OTD. compressor has gone bad. Rest of the system is fine and can be flushed. Compressor is 488 and that to me is outrageous, rear is labor. 5.9hr at 145 an hour.
> 
> No leaks in system.


If it works sometimes, I wonder what is actually wrong with the compressor...clutch? Variable displacement solenoid? Hmm...

That seems like a lot of labor for a compressor R&R, but I have no idea how hard it is to get to on the Diesel. Usually it's ~2 hr job on your average FWD, though.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> If it works sometimes, I wonder what is actually wrong with the compressor...clutch? Variable displacement solenoid? Hmm...
> 
> That seems like a lot of labor for a compressor R&R, but I have no idea how hard it is to get to on the Diesel. Usually it's ~2 hr job on your average FWD, though.


One shop said the same, but they also quoted 900-1200. The second shop quoted 1200. So dealer asking 1350 OTD doesn’t seem too off. I’d love to test my compressor when it’s off the car, I AM asking for my parts back as per state law.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

What's the core charge? That'll raise your bill if you want to keep the old one.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> What's the core charge? That'll raise your bill if you want to keep the old one.


150$ the advisor told me. Told him keep it then.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Well got the car back and gave them their Verano loaner back. The ac is cold, not as cold as I expected but hey the Cruze never did meet my AC needs since I got it 0 miles. Came in where I expected it price wise. Hope I get another 6 years out of the system.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> Well got the car back and gave them their Verano loaner back. The ac is cold, not as cold as I expected but hey the Cruze never did meet my AC needs since I got it 0 miles. Came in where I expected it price wise. Hope I get another 6 years out of the system.
> View attachment 292417


mine was always cold but didn’t move enough air to cool the car.

check the recirc damper for function as well. The coldest ac setting should close the damper automatically and one “click” up will open it. 









FIX: Excessive Moisture/Condensation/Frost on Windows


For some time now there have been many Cruze owners posting about excess moisture inside their Cruze, leading to foggy or frosted up windows that compromise outward visibility. My car was no different and I assumed, as most did, that it was somehow related to the small engine not putting out a...




www.cruzetalk.com


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ours works well enough, but we're also not in Florida, though it does get plenty hot here in the summer. When we came back from Illinois a few years back and it was 100 degrees it did plenty well.

That said, it's not my Volt. That car has the best AC of any car I have ever been in. That electric compressor yo. Oddly, my Cobalt's is ice cold, too, and moves a ton of air on anything above the low setting.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> mine was always cold but didn’t move enough air to cool the car.
> 
> check the recirc damper for function as well. The coldest ac setting should close the damper automatically and one “click” up will open it.
> 
> ...


I’ve never had fog inside in any setting. Once in a crazy blue moon after 6 hrs with it on there will be a ever so tiny less then a credit card in the front by the window vent. I’ve always felt the airflow fine, I usually run outside air since to recirculate in a hot Florida car takes longer then to let it flow and blow hot air out.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Ours works well enough, but we're also not in Florida, though it does get plenty hot here in the summer. When we came back from Illinois a few years back and it was 100 degrees it did plenty well.
> 
> That said, it's not my Volt. That car has the best AC of any car I have ever been in. That electric compressor yo. Oddly, my Cobalt's is ice cold, too, and moves a ton of air on anything above the low setting.


Yah even with high quality tint and a custom window shade it gets hot. From idle hot to the first light it gets cold but it’s no suburban. I’ve always wanted colder but I absolutely despise heat like we keep the house at 69 daytime and 60 at night. If I could tune I’d have the condenser fan on higher speeds vs quiet operation. Diesel is so well insulated I prefer cold. I’m also thinking when I put the LED bar behind the grill and remove bumper I can remove the radiator aero covers for max air flow.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Mine didn’t fog either, but was stuck in between. The car will ignore recirc requests depending on the temp dial setting. As I said, the coldest setting will close the damper and keep it closed no matter what you tell it. Worth a quick pop out of the air filter if you feel it’s not as cold as it should be at least.

not sure what they changed on the Gen 2, but man it’s cold and moves a LOT of air.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Mine didn’t fog either, but was stuck in between. The car will ignore recirc requests depending on the temp setting. As I said, the coldest setting will close the damper and keep it closed no matter what you tell it. Worth a quick pop out of the air filter if you feel it’s not as cold as it should be at least.
> 
> not sure what they changed on the Gen 2, but man it’s cold and moves a LOT of air.


So max fan speed, recirculating is the max cold I take it? Max fan speed is crazy loud lol


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> So max fan speed, recirculating is the max cold I take it? Max fan speed is crazy loud lol


It uses a variable displacement compressor, so theoretically should output similar temperature air on each fan speed. With older compressor designs that were just on or off and controlled through a clutch, the coldest air would be on the lowest fan speed.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> It uses a variable displacement compressor, so theoretically should output similar temperature air on each fan speed. With older compressor designs that were just on or off and controlled through a clutch, the coldest air would be on the lowest fan speed.


From max fan speed to lower ones it does feel the same. Yah nice and expensive compressor


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

The electric condenser fan only works when sitting idle. It never works as long as the car is moving.

The only time my fan sees notch 4. Out of 7 or 8. 
Is 95 or above. Once cooled down it drops to 3. Or 2. I never ever use recirculation. Not summer or winter.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> The electric condenser fan only works when sitting idle. It never works as long as the car is moving.
> 
> The only time my fan sees notch 4. Out of 7 or 8.
> Is 95 or above. Once cooled down it drops to 3. Or 2. I never ever use recirculation. Not summer or winter.


I do mostly 90% city traffic so I sidle often. Yah manual hvac controls have off then 1-6. 3 to cool off, 2 to maintain, 1 we have been driving a long time and getting too cold. Here in Florida I found recirculating just keeps the hot cab air in longer. So I turn it to 4 setting non recirculating and open driver window and passenger rear to get air sucked out. Then close them up after 2-3 blocks.


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