# Anyone in the p0133 club needs to look in this thread!



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Autocorrect gave you an HO2 sensor and not an O2 sensor.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

At least there is a known correlation between these failures. Now GM needs to figure out how to deal with this.


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

Tomko said:


> Autocorrect gave you an HO2 sensor and not an O2 sensor.


It's supposed to be a heated oxygen sensor. Sorry if there is any confusion with my first post.


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

The problem is that sooner or later one of these sensors will fail, they will not recall it, they will replace only the ones that will fail and hopefully still on warranty after that we'll have to pay for the bad engineering. I bought the car for its economy, so if I have to wot all the time just to keep the exhaust clean it's kind of illogical to me. Most of diesel drivers will feather the throttle to gain some mpg.


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

bigluke said:


> The problem is that sooner or later one of these sensors will fail, they will not recall it, they will replace only the ones that will fail and hopefully still on warranty after that we'll have to pay for the bad engineering. I bought the car for its economy, so if I have to wot all the time just to keep the exhaust clean it's kind of illogical to me. Most of diesel drivers will feather the throttle to gain some mpg.


I don't think that's what is meant at all. I think any engine powered by regular petrol or diesel needs to be run at greater speeds or under higher load at some points to clear out the carbon or any other contamination caught up in there. You don't have to take your vehicle on the expressway or the local road and let it rip.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

To come to Luc's defence on this point - he lives in Montreal, and the way people drive in Montreal is unlike anywhere else I've ever driven in North america. In my opinion it's the closest thing to the autobahn or autostrada that you'll find in the new world. 

So I'm quite certain that his car gets a proper thrashing on a regular basis. 

And for the record I think that the drivers in Montreal are actually quite good. The problem is that there are no established safety checks in place for vehicles licensed in that jurisdiction. So you often see vehicles long past their prime being driven at their limits. That is the scary thing to see on the autoroutes in and around Montreal. 

As for carbon build up in internal combustion engines, cadillac had a devil of a time with this - because traditional cadillac drivers drive like the octogenarians that they are. In the end the problem was partially solved by fuel injection, but more completely by the use of top tier gasoline. Unfortunately we have no similar standard for diesel at this time.


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## Su8pack1 (Apr 17, 2014)

If it's a soot build up then these sensors need to be built to deal with it. My 2002 Duramax has never been back to the dealer for anything like this, and I drive it the same way as the Cruze. I've had one O2 sensor replaced so far and taking it in next week for the NOX sensor a second time, 4.5 months and 6500 miles.


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

Tomko said:


> To come to Luc's defence on this point - he lives in Montreal, and the way people drive in Montreal is unlike anywhere else I've ever driven in North america. In my opinion it's the closest thing to the autobahn or autostrada that you'll find in the new world.
> 
> So I'm quite certain that his car gets a proper thrashing on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tomko, you're right, Montreal is an autobahn but with more potholes haha, you better know how to drive. Sorry for my negativity but I think the sensors on the exhaust will be the diesel weakest link. All my life I seen diesel trucks riding on idle for all day because guys had trouble starting them when too cold so they just let them idle all day long and never heard from them to have sensor problems, between you and me a truck on idle can't build up enough heat to burn the soot. So my opinion is that the sensors should be reviewed pretty quick and give diesel owners better reliability. As you can see diesels are getting more and more miles on them and sensors becoming a collective problem, not just one bad lucky owner...anyway time will tell if I'm right.


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

well i had my o2 replaced last week my mpg dropped 2-3 per gallon about 2 months before the light came on  hopefully im in the clear will see in the next month or 2 since i drive about 2200 miles per month


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

So I find this post after I post on another thread that those who drive the car more aggressively have fewer problems with sensors. That being said, I do agree that the engineers should find a way to deal with this.


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

They are working on it. I had a lengthy discussion with an engineer about these issues. I love this vehicle but I will not be going in to service it every 3k miles.... I can drive a jetta or an audi and be happy. But the power and price stomps on those two brands.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

I'm one of the "other" posts about driving a little more spirited and NOT having anymore sensor or CEL issues in the last 15K. In addition, I also do my own oil changes just to make sure it gets done correctly with the right oil. I also did have early problems and I was also trying to squeeze as much MPG as I could get, not any more. You need to "work" a diesel engine to get the temps up and seeing how this is in a car it's not like your going to tow a trailer or carry a large load so hammer down each time you drive and get you RPM's above 3K once in a while. I'm at 30K + and haven't been back to the dealer since, I forgot when!


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

+1 with Warlock. I occasionally get on mine now. I was hesitant too to do this. Not a lot, but once a day, just give it at a stop sign or light and hit 3500 or so. Actually kind of fun. Also, if I encounter traffic that just lugs along, I'll use the manual to put it in a gear that is right near 1800 or so.


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

Update: getting a data logger put on the vehicle to test some new parts. Getting a new air cleaner intake duct apparently. Some other parts in the works apparently.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

I assume your car will be a test mule for gm.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Tres cool.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

tcruze94 said:


> Update: getting a data logger put on the vehicle to test some new parts. Getting a new air cleaner intake duct apparently. Some other parts in the works apparently.


It sounds like the engineers are taking diesel technology seriously.


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## Mo Cruze (Aug 29, 2014)

Maybe this is why my car puts/stutters at stop lights sometimes? Maybe this is why i feel i dont get very good gas mileage?


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## Robbyjarm (May 28, 2014)

I pulled this code and fixed it without replacing the sensor. Ran a fuel system cleaning with a full tank of VPOWER and Injector Cleaner moderated into the intake manifold. Choked the engine out a little, revved it up to about 3750 rpms and watched the massive amounts of carbon burn out of my intake and exhaust. As soon as the engine equalized it's fuel trims from the assault I ripped it out onto the freeway and kept the thing moving massive amounts of fuel running wot like crazy. Specifically, keeping the Revs high. Check engine light turned itself off at that point  Problem solved. Keep your engine clean = happy 02. By the way, anyone not running a high grade full synthetic, switch over now if you know whats good for this turbo.
EDIT: I HAVE THE 1.4 PETROL ENGINE
DO NOT RUN THESE FUEL SYSTEM CLEANERS IN A DIESEL ENGINE


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

diesel said:


> It sounds like the engineers are taking diesel technology seriously.


hope your correct!


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

Update: getting car back after two weeks in the shop. Nox sensors and oxygen sensors completely covered in soot. Had to order more parts and install. GM is also installing a data logger that will allow me to record data all the time and point out any other intermittent issues. GM also informed me that I am to be getting new injectors in the next 1000 miles to test those new ones too


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

That's encouraging...


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## Roadburner440 (Dec 29, 2013)

Not sure if this is really good or bad.. Makes me wonder what the cost will be to get these parts after warranty expiration if the car functions fine till then. It sounds pretty expensive with all of the stuff they have done to your car. Hopefully the data logger can provide a lot of useful data, and I hope GM shares that data with you and the rest of us. Curious to see what they learn from this vice the testing they did prior to releasing the car to the public.


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

Roadburner440 said:


> Not sure if this is really good or bad.. Makes me wonder what the cost will be to get these parts after warranty expiration if the car functions fine till then. It sounds pretty expensive with all of the stuff they have done to your car. Hopefully the data logger can provide a lot of useful data, and I hope GM shares that data with you and the rest of us. Curious to see what they learn from this vice the testing they did prior to releasing the car to the public.


Oh I will be getting the data when it is requested. There is no reason not to give it to me. Will be sure to update this post as I find oddities and log them. If you have any questions during the process let me know. If you have issues I will see if I can duplicate it and log it.


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## AZJay (Jan 26, 2015)

tcruze94: Just curious how things worked out for you, and if you had any updates.


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

It's been okay so far... I had a few unrelated codes over the winter. I have been more aggressively driving and no codes. It must be all related to driving style.


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

same here no further issues with the new sensor


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

I mean I say that now and tomorrow it will probably go off.


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## Su8pack1 (Apr 17, 2014)

Several months ago I had my 3rd code for the exhaust sensors and set up an appointment. Someone on this site suggested driving a little aggressive to blow the soot out and I gave it a try. Well, the engine light went out in 2 days and I cancelled my appointment. I now floor it once and a while, and no codes since. Coincidence?


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

From what I understand the factor installed ones were "sensitive" the replacements are not as and that's why it holds up better but yea one in a while I floor it going g up a big long hill to clean her up lol


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Well, I had my NOX sensor replaced at 150 miles and now at t 13,000 miles...*this morning, the dreaded engine light appeared again while driving to work. *Just friggin super. Well, I'll be calling the dealer today.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

Best item I've bought soon after buying my CTD was an engine scanner so I can read my own codes. I've had a CEL as soon as 5 miles from the dealer so I've had a couple early problems. Had a sensor replaced and have had a few CEL's in 46K miles now. I even had one last week that turns out to be a failed calibration code P11D7 (had this one a couple times now) no need to contact stealer. Best advice is wok the engine (diesels are working engines) so step on the go pedal every day and keep the dealer away! BTW, after all my CEL's I never had a performance issue with my car, its a smog control problem on some of these CTD.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I just got back from 250 mile trip to Iowa and back. 90% highway miles, car worked flawlessly averaging 47-54 mpg. Never drove it yesterday and now this morning...bam...engine light immediately after start up. Why should we have to beat the car to avoid a CEL? Makes no sense. How about having a car you can drive normally and not worry about pulling a CEL??? What scares me is when the car is out of warranty, what then? IDK...going back to the dealer again just pi$$e$ me off.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I wonder if the reason I don't have these problems is because every day I redline and WOT mine.


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## tcruze94 (Jul 4, 2014)

Engines are apparently not getting hot enough and not having Hugh enough rpms to blow the carbon and soot out. These issues are being caused pre cat I believe and is a symptom of not burning the fuel all the way and coating the sensors... I have seen them when they come out after repairs. It's awful.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

No problems here, I get after it on a regular basis and could care less about mpg's. I bet you my towing HELPS keep things clean due to higher temps


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

My only concern about "getting on it" is that you may be helping your sensors at the risk of hurting your DPF. Just speculating of course. The DPF can only regen so many times before it needs service. When you stomp on it the soot needs to go somewhere. Would be nice if the sensors just behaved themselves.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

Have you ever seen soot coming out of your CTD? I'm at 46K and you can stick your finger in my exhaust pipe and nothing is in there. If you have soot at your tail pipe you have problems. "Soot" is what the old diesel's would pump out when too much fuel is forced into the engine, it was unburned fuel, period. I'm one of the people advocating a little WOT once in a while, it would do nothing to the DEF if that's what you are calling DPF. I had issues early on, and I was trying too hard to get MPG, not anymore. Problems, not lately. These new diesel engines will not allow excess fuel to go unburned and out the tail pipe.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

warloc said:


> Have you ever seen soot coming out of your CTD? I'm at 46K and you can stick your finger in my exhaust pipe and nothing is in there. If you have soot at your tail pipe you have problems. "Soot" is what the old diesel's would pump out when too much fuel is forced into the engine, it was unburned fuel, period. I'm one of the people advocating a little WOT once in a while, it would do nothing to the DEF if that's what you are calling DPF. I had issues early on, and I was trying too hard to get MPG, not anymore. Problems, not lately. These new diesel engines will not allow excess fuel to go unburned and out the tail pipe.


DPF = Deisel Particulate Filter - the thing that traps soot, ash, and other particulate matter in the Diesel exhaust. This then needs to be periodically cleaned by raising exhaust temps to burn the matter out of the filter (a re-gen). 

DEF - Diesel Exhaust Fluid - the urea solution that is involved in SCR (selective catalyst reduction), which is used to reduce Nitrous Oxide emissions from the Diesel exhaust. 

These are two separate emissions components that the Cruze Diesel uses together to achieve the clean Diesel exhaust you describe.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

Scott M. said:


> My only concern about "getting on it" is that you may be helping your sensors at the risk of hurting your DPF. Just speculating of course. The DPF can only regen so many times before it needs service. When you stomp on it the soot needs to go somewhere. Would be nice if the sensors just behaved themselves.


No, that's not how a DPF works. If it is not heated sufficiently often and for long enough to clean itself, it will become clogged, cease to function, and require replacement.

If it is heated often enough, and for long enough, to keep clean, it should remain functional for the life of the vehicle.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

grs1961 said:


> No, that's not how a DPF works. If it is not heated sufficiently often and for long enough to clean itself, it will become clogged, cease to function, and require replacement.
> 
> If it is heated often enough, and for long enough, to keep clean, it should remain functional for the life of the vehicle.


In Theory..Yes. In reality, every time it regens it is a little less clean than the time before. It can only regen for a certain amount of times before it becomes un serviceable. a car that produces the least soot will have the longest lasting DPF. Anyone who owned a non DPF diesel knows that when you stomp on it black smoke comes out. when you baby it no black smoke come out. No black smoke is better for a DPF in the long term. In my opinion.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

warloc said:


> Have you ever seen soot coming out of your CTD? I'm at 46K and you can stick your finger in my exhaust pipe and nothing is in there. If you have soot at your tail pipe you have problems. "Soot" is what the old diesel's would pump out when too much fuel is forced into the engine, it was unburned fuel, period. I'm one of the people advocating a little WOT once in a while, it would do nothing to the DEF if that's what you are calling DPF. I had issues early on, and I was trying too hard to get MPG, not anymore. Problems, not lately. These new diesel engines will not allow excess fuel to go unburned and out the tail pipe.


White smoke is caused by raw unburnt fuel entering the exhaust stream. Not black smoke

Your CTD still makes soot. It gets trapped by the DPF. You never see it but its still there.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Occasional stomping on it is of course perfectly OK. I not suggesting otherwise. Just pointing out a potential side effect.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

grs1961 said:


> No, that's not how a DPF works. If it is not heated sufficiently often and for long enough to clean itself, it will become clogged, cease to function, and require replacement.
> 
> If it is heated often enough, and for long enough, to keep clean, it should remain functional for the life of the vehicle.


I can see more frequent re-gens being a problem for the long-term durability of the DPF, but because of heat cycles rather than residual soot accumulation. The more frequently that metal and the filter material inside the DPF get super-heated to carry out a re-gen, the sooner something is going to eventually fail structurally, whether it's a break in the housing, or degradation of the filter material, eventually more frequent heat cycles means quicker failure. We could be talking about the DPF lasting 125k vs. 150k miles or we could be talking 300k vs. 400k miles; we just won't know until enough people get their mileage high enough to see a pattern.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

revjpeterson said:


> ... We could be talking about the DPF lasting 125k vs. 150k miles or we could be talking 300k vs. 400k miles; we just won't know until enough people get their mileage high enough to see a pattern.


Yes - I wonder how many kilometres the people in Europe have been getting from their DPFs?

They've been running them there since roughly 2000, and MB introduced them in 2003[1], if they were finding that DPFs had a short life-span we would have some real reports of problems as the vehicles aged by now.

1 - They use a different method than the one GM chose, apparently we use the Peugeot-type system.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Well, since it appears as if I am the highest mileage one and I should have the same driving habits for at least the next year, I will report back if I have any DPF problems. I almost never notice regens in mine, I think they always happen on the highway.


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## warloc (Dec 10, 2013)

I have a F-250 SD 7.3 Diesel with a Edge programmer. I can set that engine up so I could cover your car with enough unburned fuel you could run the CTD on it. Oh BTW the color is Black not white. Even the smog check on that vehicle consists of a "smoke check" out the tail pipe as they stomp on the accelerator. When stone cold there is a ting of grey smoke at the tail pipe, its a 13 year old truck. I do have it programmed to not pump out a cloud of smoke. I also believe the "scrubbing" of the exhaust is at a microscopic level by the DEF system. Also, if working a diesel engine hard would be bad for the DEF system, how do the commercial diesel trucks seem to have no issues pulling 80,000 lbs all day long?


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

We just joined the P0133 club during the Lordstown meet.
Car was built 9/14, has 12,500 miles and when I drive it I like to merge onto the highway at 75-100% throttle in manual mode shifting @ 32-3500 RPM.

Cleared the code and sent the car on a 350 mile highway run and it did not come back, yet.


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