# Timing Chain located on the transmission side



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

No its not, I think someone is pulling your leg. The timing chain is located on the front(passenger side) of the engine, behind the water pump under the timing cover. would be kinda hard to have a flywheel for the transmission to bolt to if the timing chain was in the way wouldn't it? There is a cut away of the gen 2 engine on this page below, you can clearly see where the timing chain is located, Gen 1 was in the same location. 

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm...ovation/powertrain/0624-cruze-powertrain.html


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

jkhawaii said:


> hmy: hopefully GM puts some heavy duty parts in there for the timing chain. The chain is on the transmisson side of the engine.


Didn't you tell us that you are a dealership technician?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

spacedout said:


> No its not, I think someone is pulling your leg. The timing chain is located on the front(passenger side) of the engine, behind the water pump under the timing cover. would be kinda hard to have a flywheel for the transmission to bolt to if the timing chain was in the way wouldn't it? There is a cut away of the gen 2 engine on this page below, you can clearly see where the timing chain is located, Gen 1 was in the same location.
> 
> https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm...ovation/powertrain/0624-cruze-powertrain.html


I'm going to guess you are unaware this is discussing the new diesel.

The new diesel timing chain is located between trans and engine.......I hope the corporation has learned its lessons well regarding chains and tensioners. Think 3.6 V-6 for latest example.

Rob


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Robby said:


> I'm going to guess you are unaware this is discussing the new diesel.
> 
> The new diesel timing chain is located between trans and engine.......I hope the corporation has learned its lessons well regarding chains and tensioners. Think 3.6 V-6 for latest example.
> 
> Rob


Nope, I will always keep making this mistake from time to time because the website doesn't have DIESEL in the titles of DIESEL topics like it should. I come to the website, scroll down to recent threads, only way to even see its a diesel topic is to check the forum heading at the top of the thread(after you already loaded the topic). 

If the website required diesel topics to have the word diesel in the thread title, this issue would be eliminated Since I would not even click on any of those threads.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

spacedout said:


> Nope, I will always keep making this mistake from time to time because the website doesn't have DIESEL in the titles of DIESEL topics like it should. I come to the website, scroll down to recent threads, only way to even see its a diesel topic is to check the forum heading at the top of the thread(after you already loaded the topic).
> 
> If the website required diesel topics to have the word diesel in the thread title, this issue would be eliminated Since I would not even click on any of those threads.


Yep, happens to me from time to time too.
I do, however, like to review the diesel posts just to see what is going on and, of course, the moderator hat requires I look at everything.

Rob


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

jkhawaii said:


> hmy: hopefully GM puts some heavy duty parts in there for the timing chain. The chain is on the transmisson side of the engine.


Yikes that seems like a very poor location for that, can't even inspect it easily. If needs replacement would be more expensive than replacing the belt on gen 1 diesel. Labor to replace would be the lion share of the cost.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It's done to reduce noise to further the Whisperdiesel concept.

At least it's easier to get at than Audi's "lifetime" timing chains on the S-series V8s which they promptly put on the back of the engine because it didn't need to be serviced like the previous V8's timing belt - until it did, because its German. 

One of my buddies just sold his S4 because of that - he was coming up on needing it replaced, and the lowest quote was $7,000, as the engine needs to be pulled.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Yes the timing CHAIN is on the back of the engine on the new 1.6L Diesel engine, but it is a CHAIN and hopefully will last the life of the engine. Pulling the transmission to access the chain or pulling the engine really should not be that hard either... I would rather have a timing chain than a belt no matter where it is placed, so I am happy with the placement.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I've heard some fairly quiet timing chain motors at idle...in fact, the new 1.4 is pretty quiet. Heck, you could just add more insulation on the cover if that was a key selling point.

Hopefully they've nailed that tensioner and guide design down. I have yet to hear of a chain issue on the 1st gen 1.4, but their designs don't have a great timing chain history with the 2.2 and 3.6 issues.

Is the water pump still belt-driven as it is on the current Cruzens? After Ford's issues with a chain-driven WP inside the V6 engines, I'm not sure that I'd want one of those either.


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## renaissanceman (Feb 23, 2017)

GM's Saturn division made timing chains with excellent longevity. Hopefully those engineers were on this design


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

We are running an article on the 1.6L diesel engine in our next issue. I just went through all the photos again and I can't see a water pump at all on the cutaway engine GM had on display... I do not know where the water pump is on this new engine. I could see it being gear driven off the crank or cam in one way or another like the Duramax or LT1 small block of the 90s.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

I googled then searched some more and found the water pump in my photos... It is belt driven off the serpentine belt off the front of the engine and looks to be easy to service/replace as needed.

Here is an old article on the Opel version where it can be seen, it is the large diameter pulley in the 2:00 position...

New Opel-GM 1.6 Liter Turbo Diesel Engine Excels In All Categories | GM Authority


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## wasney (Mar 3, 2015)

spacedout said:


> Nope, I will always keep making this mistake from time to time because the website doesn't have DIESEL in the titles of DIESEL topics like it should. I come to the website, scroll down to recent threads, only way to even see its a diesel topic is to check the forum heading at the top of the thread(after you already loaded the topic).
> 
> If the website required diesel topics to have the word diesel in the thread title, this issue would be eliminated Since I would not even click on any of those threads.


I guess having this at the top doesn't help. lol



2nd Generation Chevrolet Cruze
Gen2 Diesel General Discussion
Timing Chain located on the transmission side


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

spacedout said:


> Nope, I will always keep making this mistake from time to time because the website doesn't have DIESEL in the titles of DIESEL topics like it should. I come to the website, scroll down to recent threads, only way to even see its a diesel topic is to check the forum heading at the top of the thread(after you already loaded the topic).
> 
> If the website required diesel topics to have the word diesel in the thread title, this issue would be eliminated Since I would not even click on any of those threads.


By your logic, every topic would be required to have specific details in it, not just diesel or not. Very impractical. Probably the best solution for you is to browse the forums by the areas you are interested in. That way you can avoid looking at the diesel topics, or having to load the message to see what area it's in. I've never used a handheld device on this forum so i am not too familiar with how it works.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

When i saw the cutaway engine in Detroit, it looked like there were plastic guide rails (if that's what they are called). i am not sure if that signals future issues or not.


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## renaissanceman (Feb 23, 2017)

A lot of very long lived timing chain designs use plastic guides over a metal structure. Teflon and other temperature-stable, self lubricating plastics are pretty neat materials.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yup, pretty much most modern engines use plastic chain guides/tensioners.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

diesel said:


> By your logic, every topic would be required to have specific details in it, not just diesel or not. Very impractical.


Other forums that I frequent have no issue tagging a specific category's this way. I'm not the only one who makes this mistake from time to time, and it ONLY effects diesel topics. Since diesel cruze only accounts for something like 2% of the production overall, it would only be the diesel topics that SHOULD have DIESEL tag in the topic title. Example, I read an interesting topic title on the recent thread list, I click on it and of course start reading.... No where in the thread itself does the OP mention diesel, and the only way I would know is to check which forum it was posted in every single time. 

How many of you click on a topic and start reading the ads, other forum links, ect before the post? None I suspect. Catchy title is ALL you can see in the recent list, so adding DIESEL to the topic title would make diesel specific topics stand out and be obvious before anyone even clicked on them. 



diesel said:


> Probably the best solution for you is to browse the forums by the areas you are interested in. That way you can avoid looking at the diesel topics, or having to load the message to see what area it's in. I've never used a handheld device on this forum so i am not too familiar with how it works.


I am on a PC, not sure why you assumed I was on a phone or tablet using the crappy app. I load cruzetalk website and scroll down to the recent topics on the main page, by your logic this feature should not even be there. No way I should be forced to search though tons of old posts just to not see topics on a super low production car. Geez I can't believe how ridiculous some of the admin responses are on here..... 

I can see why people ask to be banned.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Other forums that I frequent have no issue tagging a specific category's this way. I'm not the only one who makes this mistake from time to time, and it ONLY effects diesel topics. Since diesel cruze only accounts for something like 2% of the production overall, it would only be the diesel topics that SHOULD have DIESEL tag in the topic title. Example, I read an interesting topic title on the recent thread list, I click on it and of course start reading.... No where in the thread itself does the OP mention diesel, and the only way I would know is to check which forum it was posted in every single time.
> 
> How many of you click on a topic and start reading the ads, other forum links, ect before the post? None I suspect. Catchy title is ALL you can see in the recent list, so adding DIESEL to the topic title would make diesel specific topics stand out and be obvious before anyone even clicked on them.
> 
> ...


Let it go. 

It's on the breadcrumbs at the top of the page, as well as the right on "new topics". That's all there really needs to be...having the word "diesel" in every Diesel post is unnecessary.









Here

and here:


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

wasney said:


> I guess having this at the top doesn't help. lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To see admins like your post shows just how childish admins are on this website are.... Your post was not helpful and only instigates off topic and possibly inflammatory response form me, something admins should be trying to help avoid. If you had comprehended what I said in my post, you would have seen your response was already covered. 

I feel sorry for any new users who has to deal with the attitude problem this forum has started to embrace.... promoted, encouraged and even made by the admins themselves. I should have known things where going down hill when I heard NickD was banned.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

spacedout said:


> To see admins like your post shows just how childish admins are on this website are.... Your post was not helpful and only instigates off topic and possibly inflammatory response form me, something admins should be trying to help avoid. If you had comprehended what I said in my post, you would have seen your response was already covered.
> 
> I feel sorry for any new users who has to deal with the attitude problem this forum has started to embrace.... promoted, encouraged and even made by the admins themselves. I should have known things where going down hill when I heard NickD was banned.


To be honest, Robby and Diesel, both admins, treated you with respect on this thread. I am not an admin, you seem to be upset and are saying unfounded stuff about admins when you made a mistake and they treated you fairly. You have been in here for a long time, If you have concerns about the forum perhaps it would be better to discuss with an admin in private messages versus getting fussy with admins in a public way.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

spacedout said:


> Other forums that I frequent have no issue tagging a specific category's this way. I'm not the only one who makes this mistake from time to time, and it ONLY effects diesel topics. Since diesel cruze only accounts for something like 2% of the production overall, it would only be the diesel topics that SHOULD have DIESEL tag in the topic title. Example, I read an interesting topic title on the recent thread list, I click on it and of course start reading.... No where in the thread itself does the OP mention diesel, and the only way I would know is to check which forum it was posted in every single time.
> 
> How many of you click on a topic and start reading the ads, other forum links, ect before the post? None I suspect. Catchy title is ALL you can see in the recent list, so adding DIESEL to the topic title would make diesel specific topics stand out and be obvious before anyone even clicked on them.
> 
> ...


I am sure others will agree my response to you was intended to be helpful. I offered suggestions for how to get the most out of the forum, in a way that takes ALL users into account.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Let it go.
> 
> It's on the breadcrumbs at the top of the page, as well as the right on "new topics". That's all there really needs to be...having the word "diesel" in every Diesel post is unnecessary.


I always look at that "new posts" page, and look at the categories on the right - can't say I've ever once been confused on what forum I was in - and if I had any question on that, I'd simply scroll up to where you point it out in your last image. Pretty easy.


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## wasney (Mar 3, 2015)

spacedout said:


> To see admins like your post shows just how childish admins are on this website are.... Your post was not helpful and only instigates off topic and possibly inflammatory response form me, something admins should be trying to help avoid. If you had comprehended what I said in my post, you would have seen your response was already covered.
> 
> I feel sorry for any new users who has to deal with the attitude problem this forum has started to embrace.... promoted, encouraged and even made by the admins themselves. I should have known things where going down hill when I heard NickD was banned.


I was just making a joke. lol I just do not see the point in complaining about something you clearly can see (as you said, that was unnecessary to the post. Your comment was also. But this is a public forum.) . I have made the mistake once. But then someone pointed that out to me and I haven't made it again. Sorry if I offended you in anyway.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

So how about the timing chain on the gen 2 diesel being in the back of engine? Are there other engines that have this design? I had a Cadillac Northstar engine a couple times, never had any issues with them, guess I was lucky, as I recall the starter was inside the intake if I recall correctly, who thinks this stuff up?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> So how about the timing chain on the gen 2 diesel being in the back of engine? Are there other engines that have this design? I had a Cadillac Northstar engine a couple times, never had any issues with them, guess I was lucky, as I recall the starter was inside the intake if I recall correctly, who thinks this stuff up?


The only one that I can think of is Audi. And we all know they have amazing reliability...

Audi allroad 4.2L Timing Chain Replacement - Peak TransportPeak Transport - Bend Oregon

Some German mfrs. are also putting turbos in between the "V" in engines now.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> The only one that I can think of is Audi. And we all know they have amazing reliability...
> 
> Audi allroad 4.2L Timing Chain Replacement - Peak TransportPeak Transport - Bend Oregon
> 
> Some German mfrs. are also putting turbos in between the "V" in engines now.


Well...it _is_ German. Hahaha.


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## Erikkgonzalez (Aug 20, 2017)

I just read the gen 2 1.4 GM press release I was impressed how much GM stepped up their game. It has a timing chain and integrated exhaust manifold. That's good tech right there.


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Our Honda Goldwing engines use plastic guides with metal underlays. Ive only ever replaced one (wreck repair, head cover ground though and almost broke a link) and they've been around since 2001 and ive seen quite a few over 100,000 miles, a couple close to 200,000 miles. The 2000 and older Goldwings used belts, which Honda suggested replacing every 80,000 or so many years I think. They were easy to replace but kinda costly. A good tech could do the belts on a 1500 in around a 1/2 hour or so.


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## mechguy78 (Jun 6, 2016)

jblackburn said:


> I've heard some fairly quiet timing chain motors at idle...in fact, the new 1.4 is pretty quiet. Heck, you could just add more insulation on the cover if that was a key selling point.
> 
> Hopefully they've nailed that tensioner and guide design down. I have yet to hear of a chain issue on the 1st gen 1.4, but their designs don't have a great timing chain history with the 2.2 and 3.6 issues.
> 
> Is the water pump still belt-driven as it is on the current Cruzens? After Ford's issues with a chain-driven WP inside the V6 engines, I'm not sure that I'd want one of those either.


I have heard the horror stories on the 2.2 chain though find myself to be lucky. 1st car had 187k with no issues, 2nd just shy of 300k before the tensioner failed. 

I did change the maintenance schedule of the 2nd after finding out some of the design features of the engine which may have contributed to the longer run.


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