# Worst Mileage Yet, Block Heater Dreams



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Well, this morning it was -30C (-22F) in Ottawa. Dayum frigid. I had my oil "heater" plugged in over night but the little 1.4L still took the better part of 10 minutes on the road before the temp gauge moved, and that was after letting it idle for about 2 minutes while I unplugged and put away the extension cord (since buying the car I have NEVER idled it to warm it up, just easy driving for the first few minutes). I had the recirc engaged, the fan on low and the heat on full. My gauge cluster was iced over enough that it was difficult to read my mileage, not to mention the LCD displays take 3-4 seconds to react to a change in this kind of cold.

I filled up last night before coming home. The gas station is about 1km from my house, so since filling I drove home and parked/plugged in, idled for ~2 min this morning while unplugging and then drove to work (about 23km/15mi) in this brutal cold spell. The car is reading 6.6L/100km (36 MPG), by far the worst start to a tank of fuel I can remember, but all things considered not bad at all. It will be interesting to see my mileage for this tank once this cold spell passes.

I'm seriously considering a block heater upgrade… this OEM unit doesn't even turn on until its -18C (0F). Handy for saving electricity, yes, but not so good for preheating an engine. I'm running full synthetic Mobil1 so oil flow isn't too much of a concern, but driving half way to work with a cold engine running rich, burning extra fuel and generating no cabin heat certainly is. I bet pre heating the engine would make a significant improvement in winter mileage.


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

I've been in similar weather to you the last few days and just noticed the same thing with the screens. They don't flick over right away, its a slow process of fade out-fade in.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jstoner22 said:


> I've been in similar weather to you...


Except about 10C warmer. I have ice forming at the base of my windows throughout the house, and have actual icicles forming on the bottom of my front door where there's a tiny draft through the weatherstrip... my boots sitting nearby were cold when I put them on this morning! Must - Get - Block - Heater

I grew up in Port Perry, went to Durham College in Oshawa. I moved to Ottawa in 2009 after spending most of my life in Durham Region (work evaporating in the Automotive Industry). Ottawa isn't that far away, but man, it is noticeably colder here. I was in Port a couple of weeks ago visiting family, I left behind 5-foot snowbanks in my driveway in Ottawa to see green lawns in the GTA! A few degrees makes a big difference.

Where in Whitby are you?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> I had the recirc engaged, the fan on low and the heat on full.


Do you wait til the temp gauge moves before turning on the heat? With my car, with much warmer temps, if I just blast the heat as soon as I start it, the engine never gets a chance to warm up. I wait til the gauge is just below 1/4 before turning the heater on.

And just for the record...man that's cold. It was 10F here this morning.


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## jstoner22 (Aug 21, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> Except about 10C warmer. I have ice forming at the base of my windows throughout the house, and have actual icicles forming on the bottom of my front door where there's a tiny draft through the weatherstrip... my boots sitting nearby were cold when I put them on this morning! Must - Get - Block - Heater
> 
> I grew up in Port Perry, went to Durham College in Oshawa. I moved to Ottawa in 2009 after spending most of my life in Durham Region (work evaporating in the Automotive Industry). Ottawa isn't that far away, but man, it is noticeably colder here. I was in Port a couple of weeks ago visiting family, I left behind 5-foot snowbanks in my driveway in Ottawa to see green lawns in the GTA! A few degrees makes a big difference.
> 
> Where in Whitby are you?



Ya Whitby isn't too too bad. Between -13 and -20 all week before wind.
I found myself in Sudbury those within the last few days. Now that was cold haha -50 with wind.

Driving home from Sudbury, it was so cold the condensation from the exhaust was freezing as it left the tip! I have a 8" icicle coming out of it haha

I'm right by the AMC plaza. Went to Durham myself actually 2006-2012.

We lost all of our snow here in one day last week. We had one day where is was 12degrees. ....then winter came back with a vengeance.
I'd rather have your 5ft snow banks! If its going to be cold, there may as well be snow on the ground.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Talk about opposites, in my carport in Sydney's west last week it was 47C (115F) and my Diesel Cruze ran at 85C the same as it runs when temp is around 0.C.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

We had -12*F yesterday, with recir on, heat at max, drove a mile and half before switching the blower onto lo, started get heat. After 3 miles, plenty of heat, but only up to blower speed 3, really can't complain with our 2012 2LT with the 1.4L. Wind chill was around -30*F, but that doesn't count, just absolute temperature does.

It was 41*F here last Friday, then the winds shifted. Really don't know where this cold air came from. But certainly not the Arctic. According to reports I constantly hear on the news, all that ice is melted. But the wind was coming from the north. Could be from Siberia. 

Wonder if your electric thermostat froze up.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Do you wait til the temp gauge moves before turning on the heat? With my car, with much warmer temps, if I just blast the heat as soon as I start it, the engine never gets a chance to warm up. I wait til the gauge is just below 1/4 before turning the heater on.
> 
> And just for the record...man that's cold. It was 10F here this morning.


he said he drove 10 min just for the needle to move with the fan on "low". so thats 10 min of driving with little to no heat. now he should wait for it to get to 1/4, if it ever does, before turning on heat in -22 weather. brutal blue angel, just brutal, sorry man. -20 in mpls, mn tonight. cant wait to drive to work at 7 am. i know these are extreme temps but still brutal that you have to wait 10 min just for needle to move. actually i think ill just drive my truck thats sitting in the garage tomarrow.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

jdubb11 said:


> he said he drove 10 min just for the needle to move. so thats 10 min of driving with little to no heat. now he should wait for it to get to 1/4, if it ever does, before turning on heat in -22 weather. brutal blue angel, just brutal, sorry man. -20 in mpls, mn tonight. cant wait to drive to work at 7 am. i know these are extreme temps but still brutal that you have to wait 10 min just for needle to move. actually i think ill just drive my truck thats sitting in the garage tomarrow.


If you blast the heat just starting off, that needle won't move. That was my point.

Actually, my Cruze warms up faster than our Toyota and WAY, WAY faster than my old Honda did. Cars in the 80's-90's seemed just to take forever to make heat.


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## rpcraft (Jan 12, 2013)

With temps that cold 2 minutes of idling might as well be 2 seconds. If you let it sit about 5 - 10 minutes and then go it'll probably be much better. Also, I would get you some carboard or something that you can shape and pop your hood and block off the grill with that cardboard and some tape or zip ties or something. That much chilled cold air going being forced over your radiator with a barely started engine is just going to force the water temp to be super cooled. While it's warming up for the first 5 minutes I would leave the thermostat all the way on cold and the blower off, then once 5 minutes goes by flip it to warmer and low. It's just the nature of thermodynamics....


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

jdubb11 said:


> he said he drove 10 min just for the needle to move with the fan on "low". so thats 10 min of driving with little to no heat. now he should wait for it to get to 1/4, if it ever does, before turning on heat in -22 weather. brutal blue angel, just brutal, sorry man. -20 in mpls, mn tonight. cant wait to drive to work at 7 am. i know these are extreme temps but still brutal that you have to wait 10 min just for needle to move. actually i think ill just drive my truck thats sitting in the garage tomarrow.


Minneapolis, MN, your temperature is the same as here 220 miles directly east of you, a scorching hot -12*F. Yesterday, we hit 16*F, practically tee-shirt weather. But claim its only going to hit 6*F today.

Claim natural gas prices are going up due to this cold weather because of excessive usage. But also raise prices in the heat of summer due to diminished usage. 

Still takes our Cruze 6 miles to hit 221*F, at that time, have to cut down the heat or will be baked alive. Switch to floor heat only and temperature control to about midrange.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

I only let it idle while I put the cord back in the garage. It might have been less than 2 minutes, it's just a guess. I definitely didn't do it with the intention the car would be warmed up when I got in, more just to let the fast idle wind down before taking off.

I set the fan to low, recirc ON, and temp at full heat. When it's this cold the moisture in your breath freezes instantly to anything it touches, including the inside of the windshield, so keeping some air moving is necessary. Once I get to 1/4 on the gauge I turn the recirc off because the drivers side and back windows start to freeze over, so getting dry air in the car helps keep that under control. The rear window defroster isn't much help at these temps.

I'm thinking about blocking the grill off completely. The Eco already has some of it blocked, and from what I understand if the engine starts overheating the lower air inlet shutters in the facia will open. Time for an experiment! The last thing I'm worried about right now is overheating... they're calling for -30C again tonight!


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

This car heats up quite nicely if you turn the blowers off and drive it. Usually reaches 1/4 temp guage after about a mile to 1.5 miles or so


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## rpcraft (Jan 12, 2013)

Yeah I would avoid turning on the fan until you see the needle start to creep. I doubt in that cold you will see an issue with blocking off the grill with something. Especially if the other grilles will open if the temp elevates.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> Minneapolis, MN, your temperature is the same as here 220 miles directly east of you, a scorching hot -12*F. Yesterday, we hit 16*F, practically tee-shirt weather. But claim its only going to hit 6*F today.
> 
> Claim natural gas prices are going up due to this cold weather because of excessive usage. But also raise prices in the heat of summer due to diminished usage.
> 
> Still takes our Cruze 6 miles to hit 221*F, at that time, have to cut down the heat or will be baked alive. Switch to floor heat only and temperature control to about midrange.


**** i wish i had that problem


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## albow77 (Feb 18, 2012)

I have a 32 mile trip home from work and did a little experement one trip home. One morning it was about +5 out and I had about a 20 MPH wind at my back. I started my car and took off right away. After the temp got to 170 deg I turned on the heater on high and full hot--- that took about 7 miles to get to 170. For the remainder of the trip I watched the temp readings more than the road!! With the wind at my back the temp really never raised or dropped for the next 20 miles. The last 2 miles of interstate is a down a long hill - the coolant temp dropped about 10 degs. Then I have the long hill to climb up and the temp raises 10 degs. What I have seen is this car really doesn't need a radiator in the winter time because you can remove all the heat that the motor is generating with the fan on high -- granted you will bake your self into having a heat stroke in the dead of winter but it you can do it.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

Past couple of days I have left the house after letting it run in the driveway for 2-3 minutes. It did really warm up any faster than if I had just started it, let the idle come down and drove off. My caprice was the same way. Had to let it idle for 7-10 minutes before it would be putting out decent heat. Mind you this is in 5-15 degree temps. I might let it run for 5-6 minutes next time and see if it is any better. The little bit of mileage drop is worth it to me.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

ErikBEggs said:


> This car heats up quite nicely if you turn the blowers off and drive it. Usually reaches 1/4 temp guage after about a mile to 1.5 miles or so


This is completely dependant on how hard you are driving the car. If I get on the highway with a cold car and drive at over 60 MPH it warms up quickly. My daily commute is much slower than that... about 5 minutes of "in town driving" which is really very easy on the car, followed by ~15 minutes with the cruise set at ~45 MPH. At those low speeds the car takes a long time to warm up, especially when it is this cold out.



rpcraft said:


> Yeah I would avoid turning on the fan until you see the needle start to creep.


Having the fan on is necessary. Without it the moisture from your breath freezes on the inside of the window.



albow77 said:


> ...this car really doesn't need a radiator in the winter time because you can remove all the heat that the motor is generating with the fan on high -- granted you will bake your self into having a heat stroke in the dead of winter but it you can do it.


Sounds like a small price to pay for some weight savings... any ice racers out there? :idiot:



bryanakron40 said:


> Past couple of days I have left the house after letting it run in the driveway for 2-3 minutes... The little bit of mileage drop is worth it to me.


NEVER! Must - keep - car - above - 40 - M - P - G - !



rpcraft said:


> I doubt in that cold you will see an issue with blocking off the grill with something. Especially if the other grilles will open if the temp elevates.


I blocked the grill last night with a piece of cardboard just as an experiment. Even though the grille opening is already partially blocked on the Eco (so I only needed a small piece of cardboard jammed into the licence plate holder), this still made a difference this morning! When I passed by the usual spot where I start checking to see if the coolant temp gauge has moved, it was already at about 1/8th! This is good!

I have some matte black vinyl I can use to block the grill without having it look completely tacky, I think this will be a good weekend DIY. If it works well long term I might make a removable "bra" that just covers the grille...


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

blue angel said:


> never! Must - keep - car - above - 40 - m - p - g - !


rotflmao


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Air cooled aircraft engines use a heat exchanger as part of the exhaust system. All stainless steel, no blower motor, the prop doubles at that. Even in -20*F weather with the rapid heat buildup of the exhaust, started getting heat in seconds.

Average temperature drops 3.5*F for each 1,000 feet of addition altitude, at 12,000 feet, -20*F, OAT drops to -62*F, still plenty of heat, just a simple cable operates the blend door.

Hitler's car used a similar system, but for some strange reason, mounted the engine at the rear against the normal air flow of the vehicle, FWD vehicles would not share this problem. A very small blower motor was used, so was a very good car to freeze to death in the winter and be baked alive in the summer.

We all know a watched pot never boils, takes a ton of BTU's to boil water and a long delay. If speaking about choice, can die of either kidney failure with a leaking heater core or CO poisoning depending on the integrity of the system. Latter is less painful. But either can be drastically curtailed by using the correct materials for the job.

Really doubt if the EPA would ever approve of the exhaust heat exchange system, want that exhaust system to heat up as quick as possible for emissions control, yet another factor for consideration. Engine cooling represents about 10% of our gas bill, 75% of our fuel bill is going out the exhaust pipe causing global warming.

Just saying, the technology exists to do things better, but the red tape is enormous plus the liability. Liability is what killed the general aviation community.

Back in the 50's was cheaper for me to fly than to drive, no traffic signals, trips were far shorter as line of sight. Look at any state road or interstate, looks like a snake from the air. First plane I purchased was an Aeronca Champ for $650.00, aviation gas was not taxed, 20 cents per gallon.

By the year 2000, we should be all flying at 300 mph, driving at 5 mph on the Dan Ryan is more like it.

Only thing I have left is good memories of how great this country was at one time. What Happened?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

NickD said:


> Air cooled aircraft engines use a heat exchanger as part of the exhaust system. All stainless steel, no blower motor, the prop doubles at that. Even in -20*F weather with the rapid heat buildup of the exhaust, started getting heat in seconds.


This would make a lot of sense from a "quick heat" point of view. The unit could be mounted after the catalytic converter so it did not affect cold start emissions. In that location it might take a few extra seconds to start producing heat compared to it's aviation born relative, but it would still be a heck of a lot quicker than waiting for hot engine coolant.

Unfortunately, it would cost too much to implement when only a small percentage of the customers would benefit. It would be interesting to see it offered as an option to those who wanted it, but the cost of development and "red tape cutting" would likely keep it from making any financial sense.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

If I can go back to the 60's, long lines of skilled craftsman were hand grinding crankshafts as just one small insignificant example. Today, automated machines are spitting these things out faster than you can see them.

What drastically increased over the years is red tape.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Here's a quote from an article about one of the exhaust driven energy sources that BMW is currently working on:

_"The first step taken by engineers was to integrate a thermoelectric generator in the exhaust system to generate electrical current. The first such system was shown to the public in 2008 and delivered a maximum of 200 watts, which was relatively low in terms of power efficiency. But the use of new materials and improvements in the weight and size of the TEGs led to rapid new developments, so that the latest generation of TEGs installed in the exhaust are capable of generating 600 watts of electrical power, and it will not be long before the goal of 1,000 watts is reached as research progresses. The current prototype – a BMW X6 – was built as part of a development project funded by the US Department of Energy.

Then in 2009, the BMW Group unveiled an alternative development in this project. Rather than installing the TEG as a separate module in the exhaust system underneath the vehicle, engineers decided to integrate the TEG in the radiator of the exhaust gas recirculation system. In this configuration, customer testing has shown that 250 watts can be generated while CO2 emissions and fuel consumption are reduced by 2 percent at the same time.

What's more, this energy recovery system offers some interesting added benefits, such as *supplying the engine or passenger compartment heating with additional warmth during cold starts.* And the thermoelectric generator is the ideal counterpart for BMW EfficientDynamics Brake Energy Regeneration. While the brakes generate energy during deceleration and stopping, the TEG functions at its best when driving is really exciting – namely during acceleration. Researchers forecast that TEGs will lead to fuel consumption savings of up to 5 percent under real everyday driving conditions in the future."
_
Here's the link to the whole article:

BMW Turbosteamer and Thermoelectric Generator Projects Aim to Harness Heat Energy - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com

Between the Turbosteamer and Thermoelectric Generator (TEG), can you imagine how much red tape will need to be cut? The Turbosteamer concept was revealed to the public in 2005, so they had been working on it for quite some time at that point, and they predicted to have it production ready after another 10 years. 10 years! Seems like a lengthy process to produce what boils down to (pun intended) nothing more than a mini version of a steam generating plant. Steam is nothing new, we should be pretty good at it by now you'd think.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

I never considered the size of the engine and how it would deal with the cold. Unfortunately, with a turbo, they use a very small engine and it just takes a long time for the engine to warm up. It's been a really cold week here in NY. 10 degrees F in the morning with highs of about 20. I hit the parkway within 5 minutes of driving and it takes about 15 - 20 minutes for the temperature gauge to go the normal (almost center) position. I will say that it has one of the best heaters when the engine reaches normal operating temperatures. Almost too warm - even in 15 degrees. But you have to be patient while waiting for the engine to warm up.

Also, a funny thing happened the other day. The temperature gauge was at the normal position when I exited the highway. I was waiting at a traffic light and the temperature gauge dropped to the quarter mark. I did increase the fan speed by 1 level, but I can't believe that would cause the engine to cool down by that much. I think that the thermostat finally opened after about 20 minutes and when the coolant started circulating, the engine cooled down quite a bit. It started heating up almost immediately. I've never had a car where the temperature went down after running for 20 minutes - even in cold conditions.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> My gauge cluster was iced over enough that it was difficult to read my mileage, not to mention the LCD displays take 3-4 seconds to react to a change in this kind of cold.


I have the 7 in touch screen and I noticed it took a second or 2 for it to react to commands when the car was really cold. It also made a wierd sound the other day when it was really cold. Almost like a bleeping sound. That only happened once though. And they engine power is greatly reduced when the engine is cold. I don't push it until it warms up a bit. I almost let it run on its own power. And my fuel economy has dropped since this cold spell has hit - by a about a mile or 2 a gallon. I'm only getting about 23 MPG with mixed city and highway driving. I usually get over 25 MPG.


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## sheleb1 (Sep 16, 2011)

Last Wed. morning, when I saw the temperature on my outside thermometer at -39C, I figured I had better try blocking the radiator for my 35 min. drive north to the mine where I work. So I attached some cardboard with thin copper wire to the grill. Between my house & work the temp on the display showed anywhere from -38 to -41C. If the cardboard made a difference or not, I'm not sure. It still took about 10-12 min. to start getting any heat, and with the fan on 4, by the time I got to work, my side windows & edges of my windshield were so iced up that I couldn't see to the sides. It would definitely be nice to get a block heater in this engine!


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## DrVette (Dec 6, 2011)

It's too bad that corporations stamp out the inventive spirit.


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## DrVette (Dec 6, 2011)

Here's my posting re block heaters. Some threaded, and freeze plug type.

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-e...hanics-any-spot-these-type-block-heaters.html


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

This past week in the teens-low 20's, mine has had trouble warming up, even with highway driving thrown in the mix. Granted, I start the heater on fan speed 3 once the car hits 130F, and then turn it up to 4 when I get on the highway til I'm nice and toasty :3

As soon as I got off the highway, the warming up slowed down a lot (I was shifting at around 2000 RPM), and it took it about 30 minutes to hit 200.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Sure miss my thermocouple they were using in older HVAC systems, with an electrical failure, far more common than a natural gas failure, least you can get some heat.

But with an idiotic congress, God these guys are complete idiots, of all things for energy savings, pick on that quarter inch high pilot light. They would cycle frequently because the blower motor wouldn't work, but at least would get enough heat so your water pipes wouldn't freeze up.

So what did they replace that pilot with? A way overpriced POS made in China electronic ignition system, friend's went out, cost him over 600 bucks to replace it. With mine, I removed the cover that said not to, the reason they have that label is because they don't want you to see that sh!t they installed inside. Redesigned it so it would be far more reliable. Still have some solid state components that were made here before our EPA kicked them out of our country. EPA doesn't solve pollution problems, just fines you and kicks you out of the county, what a worthless governmental agency. 

Converted my wood burning fireplace to gas logs intensionally using an electric free thermocouple as opposed to using an electric remote controlled unit. In the interest of conserving energy, don't keep that pilot light running, use what they call a match to light it when I need it. 

Same thing when I had to replace my hot water heater, these force ventilation units only come with a six year tank warranty and one year on the electronics. First obstacle was our building code, while okay to install a force ventilated in my basement, not permitted to install a forced ventilated hot water heater. Would have to install that in the middle of my living room. Don't ask me why. Second, depends on electricity to operate, not considered in the energy savings. So just got an old fashion well insulated thermocouple unit. Energy savings were minimum with the forced ventilated type.

During the summer months when the furnace is off, subtracting those fixed charges, meter reading charge, contribution to those that can't afford to pay their gas bill, costing me 23 cents per day to get all the hot water I need.

Automotive started off with an external combustion engine, had to use coal or wood, start a fire to boil water for a steam operated engine. For convenience, the IC engine was developed. But that is ancient history, the IC engine is not.

Today we can make a heat chamber using a wide variety of low octane fuels, heat a refrigerant to get 500 psi of driving pressure, to control and engine like used in these air compressor vehicles except that refrigerant would be cycled using the heat pump technology to heat or cool are vehicles instantly. And get more than 180 mpg with far less pollution.

So why aren't we doing this? Clean burning natural gas or methane would be a far better alternative available domestically. Cutting down are need for wars. An external combustion engine is the only way to do this. So why aren't we doing this? With 500 psi on even a five inch single piston, 10,000 force would be available eliminating the need for a transmission. Reversing technology already exist, plus that huge fortune in emission controls would be eliminated. Start up time would be reduced to seconds.

We could do this with the proper leadership.


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## RyanPatty (Sep 28, 2012)

you said your running mobil 1 full synthetic, can you get them to put that in from the dealership or do i have to go a oil change place.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

RyanPatty said:


> you said your running mobil 1 full synthetic, can you get them to put that in from the dealership or do i have to go a oil change place.


Yes, but they'll charge you an arm and a leg for it ($70-80). Much cheaper to do a full synthetic change on your own. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

A set of Rhino ramps will give payback the first time you use them. And you know for sure the correct oil and filter was used. With the latter, an easy oversight to forget to change the filter. Try that Bond trick of pasting a hair over the cap, used a dog hair and a little grease, was still there after the supposed filter change.

Properly install a new O'ring on the filter, no twists and coat it with oil, torque both the filter cap and drain plug, specs are written on each, that way, you won't have any engine fires.

Save that Delco filter lid and that dexous label, take photo of the oil remaining mileage and date for proof it was changed in case of warranty problems. Also spray all those suspension boots with silicone, they don't do that either but claim both an oil change and lube job.

I put in four quarts, start the engine and watch the oil lamp, should go off in four seconds, back off the ramps then top it off to the full mark. At oil changing places, kids came back with two quarts low. Tighten the oil fill cap and make sure the dipstick is fully inserted.

Entire job takes about twenty minutes, can wait as long as three hours for my dealer to do it. Three very boring hours.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Richard said:


> I was waiting at a traffic light and the temperature gauge dropped to the quarter mark.


Yep, the heater core in this car works very well at pulling heat from the engine. When the engine is this small, you can only pull so much heat out before the temp starts to drop. Another member suggested that this car could be operated in the winter without a radiator if you kept the heater blasting, and he may be right!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Richard said:


> And they engine power is greatly reduced when the engine is cold.


I think this has to do with cold oil in the turbocharger. It is a common problem with turbochargers, cold oil just keeps them from spinning freely until temps get up to near normal levels. So wen the engine is cold and the turbo is sluggish you basically have a naturally aspirated 1.4L engine.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

sheleb1 said:


> Last Wed. morning, when I saw the temperature on my outside thermometer at -39C, I figured I had better try blocking the radiator for my 35 min. drive north to the mine where I work. So I attached some cardboard with thin copper wire to the grill. Between my house & work the temp on the display showed anywhere from -38 to -41C. If the cardboard made a difference or not, I'm not sure. It still took about 10-12 min. to start getting any heat, and with the fan on 4, by the time I got to work, my side windows & edges of my windshield were so iced up that I couldn't see to the sides. It would definitely be nice to get a block heater in this engine!


Hay-zus! -39C is on another level! Do you have the oil pan heater installed? If not I would think about giving it a minute or two to warm up before heading out... that's BLOODY cold. My Dad is up in Elliot Lake, I wonder if it was that cold there as well?

Regarding the cardboard on the rad, this was my solution for the Eco's already partialy blocked grille:









I found this helped out quite a bit. I don't have a temp display on the DIC (mine's a '12) but I'm guessing it warms up about 20% faster while driving. I went one step farther and stuck a piece of matte black vinyl over that area which looks a little less ******* than the cardboard and won't get soaked through. I had the car on the highway last night, 100km/h for about 20 minutes and there was no overheating. So far so good.

My windows ice up inside as well. I have no idea why some cars are prone to this and some are not. My first car, an '85 Caddy Sedan DeVille, had a broken HVAC controller so all I had year round was full heat on the floor, the only option I had was the fan speed (not good in the summer!). Even piling 6-7 people in that car wouldn't get the windows frosted up, and that was in the dead of winter in North Bay. My GF's '11 BMW 3-series doesn't ice up either, and it has about the same interior volume as the Cruze. Both of my Saturns iced up on the inside, probably worse than the Cruze does. I'm cluless...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

RyanPatty said:


> you said your running mobil 1 full synthetic, can you get them to put that in from the dealership or do i have to go a oil change place.


As long as the oil meets Dexos specifications they should have no problem doing it for you:

GM dexos information center

The cheapest way to get it done would be to buy it on sale at C-Tire and bring it in with you. Not sure how much the dealer charges to do an oil change, but it's probably cheaper to buy the oil yourself. They might give you a "synthetic" oil change cheaper, but I'd make sure what oil they're using before signing up for that. I doubt they're cracking into fresh jugs of Mobil1...


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

I put a thread up in the DIY forum on how to remove the thermostat in the OEM oil pan heater cord if anyone is interested in having a heater that works above 0F (-18C).


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## sheleb1 (Sep 16, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Hay-zus! -39C is on another level! Do you have the oil pan heater installed? If not I would think about giving it a minute or two to warm up before heading out... that's BLOODY cold. My Dad is up in Elliot Lake, I wonder if it was that cold there as well?
> 
> Regarding the cardboard on the rad, this was my solution for the Eco's already partialy blocked grille:
> 
> ...


Blue Angel,
Yes, -40 is "bloody cold". It was definitely a tough week! I have an oil pan heater and am using synthetic. The car started quickly, and I let it idle for maybe 3 or 4 minutes before I started moving. I would have let it run longer but it started icing up inside and I needed to get to work. By the time sufficient heat was coming from the defrost the ice was too thick and it couldn't keep up.
All my previous cars had block heaters, and I never really had an icing up problem inside. (I even remember one morning about 15 yrs. ago at -45.) Next time I'll just have to let it warm up longer in the driveway before even getting in.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Hay-zus! -39C is on another level! Do you have the oil pan heater installed? If not I would think about giving it a minute or two to warm up before heading out... that's BLOODY cold. My Dad is up in Elliot Lake, I wonder if it was that cold there as well?
> 
> Regarding the cardboard on the rad, this was my solution for the Eco's already partialy blocked grille:
> 
> ...


I can't find the exact thread, but I thought some members Blue Angel for example had purchased a circulation heater. Any updates before the Winter 2013-2014 season? Any success or failure in the attempt at modifing the coolant system itself?


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

I haven't searched the forum lately to see if anyone else is working on a block heater or not.

I bought a 1000W Zerostart tank-type circulation heater that I plan to install soon. You can bet your bananna I'll do a write-up on it if/when I get it in and working. Never one to leave good enough alone, I also bought a pump to circulate the coolant... if I can get that installed and working it will be the icing on the cake, and should drop the plugged in warm-up times considerably.

I will continue to use the OEM oil pan heater as well. Cold oil is not good for a cold engine on start-up, and that little 200W bugger actually keeps the oil pan warm to the touch when it's cold out, touching the pan within 6" of the heater anyway.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks Blue Angel--

It was 41F (7C) this morning, and I thought to myself, in only a few more months running heat will be a regular occurance. Let me know if you need help, as I believe our local library still has access to AllData.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

carbon02 said:


> It was 41F (7C) this morning, and I thought to myself, in only a few more months running heat will be a regular occurance. Let me know if you need help, as I believe our local library still has access to AllData.


Will do, though I think I've got pretty much everything I need.

Where are you located? It was 7C here this morning as well, high of 12C today. Winter's-a-comin.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

RyanPatty said:


> you said your running mobil 1 full synthetic, can you get them to put that in from the dealership or do i have to go a oil change place.


Just an update on oil. I'm currently running Mobil1 5W-30 oil but will be switching to Mobil1 0W-30. The 0W-30 will flow better at extremely low temperatures than the 5W-30 does while still maintaining its viscocity at higher temps.

Mobil1 0W-30 is one of only two 0W-30 oils on GM's Dexos1 approved list (the other is Idemitsu and I have no idea where you'd find it), and the Cruze owners manual states that a Dexos1 0W-30 is OK to use. I will be planning to use this oil year round, at least until the powertrain warranty expires or a better looking full synthetic 0W-30 makes its way onto the Dexos1 list.

Any XW-30 oil (i.e. 0W, 5W, 10W etc.) will have high temperature viscosity specifications within the same set of specifications set by the SAE. Anyone who wants to learn more about engine oil should read the "Oil University" blog at Bob Is The Oil Guy:

Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm in Minnesota, and yea Winter's a comming! Hopefully not for another few months. I've had no problems with the Mobil 1 5W-30 starting well even at -40F. 

I'm just looking to heat the engine and attempt to get cabin heat a little easier and quicker. As well as the addional fuel economy which might come from a warm start.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I may make a plexiglass panel to block my lower RS grill before winter. If I do I plan to leave a few holes/gaps for air flow, hopefully I can just zip-tie to the grill, should look better than cardboard. If I do make this, will only use from December 1st to March 1st every year, would not want to risk overheating my engine or transmission. 

Last year my car warmup times were 7-10minutes average, the more idling or coasting the longer it takes. Even in 85+ F degree heat coasting down a large hill my cruze looses like 20 degrees. Watching the temperatures fluctuate in many different situations it seems this engine does not have a set operating temperature, but a range from 180-230degrees.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

spacedout said:


> Watching the temperatures fluctuate in many different situations it seems this engine does not have a set operating temperature, but a range from 180-230degrees.


Part of that would be the electronic thermostat which lowers coolant temperature under load, the other part could be coasting down a long hill in cold weather with DFCO cutting fuel from the engine and the heater pulling heat at the same time? Many members have commented that their cars will cool down while idling with the heater turned up... these little 1.4Ts just don't put much waste heat into the coolant when they're not being worked hard.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

carbon02 said:


> I'm just looking to heat the engine and attempt to get cabin heat a little easier and quicker. As well as the addional fuel economy which might come from a warm start.


My sentiments exactly!


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Blue Angel said:


> Part of that would be the electronic thermostat which lowers coolant temperature under load, the other part could be coasting down a long hill in cold weather with DFCO cutting fuel from the engine and the heater pulling heat at the same time? Many members have commented that their cars will cool down while idling with the heater turned up... these little 1.4Ts just don't put much waste heat into the coolant when they're not being worked hard.


Some instances I see the thermostat cause the temperature to drop(driving up steep hill grades in the summer or winter), but I really am starting to think the downhill temperature drop is from DFCO like you say. Can't generate any significant heat when no/little fuel is being burnt. 

It was 85F(30C) outside a few weeks ago, coasting down a mile long hill I watched the temperature drop from 217(normal cruising temp) to 190 by the bottom. Since initially noticing this I have observed this happen dozens of times. I did see this drop in the winter, but was surprised to see it in the warm summer weather too. I really think it is DFCO causing this. My previous car, a 2004 cavalier also would loose engine temperature coasting down hill. 

Anyone else notice when its above 95F(35C) outside the engine does not run the usual 217degrees? mine sits at 205 constantly in those conditions.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

spacedout said:


> Anyone else notice when its above 95F(35C) outside the engine does not run the usual 217degrees? mine sits at 205 constantly in those conditions.


Thankfully, days that hot are few and VERY far between up here! Even so, I don't have a temp readout on my '12 DIC...


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Blue Angel said:


> I haven't searched the forum lately to see if anyone else is working on a block heater or not.
> 
> I bought a 1000W Zerostart tank-type circulation heater that I plan to install soon. You can bet your bananna I'll do a write-up on it if/when I get it in and working. Never one to leave good enough alone, I also bought a pump to circulate the coolant... if I can get that installed and working it will be the icing on the cake, and should drop the plugged in warm-up times considerably.
> 
> I will continue to use the OEM oil pan heater as well. Cold oil is not good for a cold engine on start-up, and that little 200W bugger actually keeps the oil pan warm to the touch when it's cold out, touching the pan within 6" of the heater anyway.


BA,

Were you ever able to complete this project? If so I am interested in seeing the results. Can you expound on the factory heater? Was that an add-on option or was it only on some vehicles? Do you have a GM part #?

Thanks


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## ownerof2011cruze (Sep 8, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> Do you wait til the temp gauge moves before turning on the heat? With my car, with much warmer temps, if I just blast the heat as soon as I start it, the engine never gets a chance to warm up. I wait til the gauge is just below 1/4 before turning the heater on.
> 
> And just for the record...man that's cold. It was 10F here this morning.


Please forgive that I respond to an old thread. My curiosity has not be satisfied, so I ask what effect does running your Cruze's heat on full and AC on full have on your engine's intake manifold vacuum and long term fuel trim? You're a very competent guy, so I'm certain it's highly probable that you've a OBD scanner that can read live data and a vacuum gauge. What numbers do you get for LTFT and vacuum with heat and AC on full?

TIA


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

ownerof2011cruze said:


> Please forgive that I respond to an old thread. My curiosity has not be satisfied, so I ask what effect does running your Cruze's heat on full and AC on full have on your engine's intake manifold vacuum and long term fuel trim? You're a very competent guy, so I'm certain it's highly probable that you've a OBD scanner that can read live data and a vacuum gauge. What numbers do you get for LTFT and vacuum with heat and AC on full?
> 
> TIA


Don't have my Gen 1 around anymore; I'd imagine vacuum would go down as you can sort of hear the turbo start to spool when you crank the AC to high at idle. Heater would have less of an effect since it just pulls more of a load on the alternator.


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## ownerof2011cruze (Sep 8, 2018)

Thank you. My observation complies. With heat on full, vacuum decreased from 17" to 13" and LTFT rose from 7~8 ish up to 14. With AC on full, vacuum dropped to 9" or 10" and LTFT rose to 17~18 ish. This may be partially due to me having "ported" the intake by removing the air dams that partially block the intake ports of the cylinder head. After I fix the oil consumption issue, the PCV bypass mod for the intake is next up, then after some other stuff, I'll invest in an HPTuner device to fix the stock tune parameters. This thing is costing me as much as would have a new truck. But then again starting the cycle over will lead me right back to the place I'm at where I get to spend too much to fix a beater.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

ownerof2011cruze said:


> Thank you. My observation complies. With heat on full, vacuum decreased from 17" to 13" and LTFT rose from 7~8 ish up to 14. With AC on full, vacuum dropped to 9" or 10" and LTFT rose to 17~18 ish. This may be partially due to me having "ported" the intake by removing the air dams that partially block the intake ports of the cylinder head. After I fix the oil consumption issue, the PCV bypass mod for the intake is next up, then after some other stuff, I'll invest in an HPTuner device to fix the stock tune parameters. This thing is costing me as much as would have a new truck. But then again starting the cycle over will lead me right back to the place I'm at where I get to spend too much to fix a beater.


I recently replaced the water pump myself due to slight staining on the timing cover, and I can't believe how well this has improved the heat on the GEN 1 1.4L. The gasket was leaking around the bolt holes. Anyway testing with outdoor temperatures of 11F, 88 octane E15 fuel, and heat on high, is a LTFT around 8-10%. The engine does increase LTFT to keep engine temperature near 219-220F, but LTFT over 10% with a warm car at idle seems high.. 

Agree though the heat does effect fuel economy. So does having the water pump internals enclosed by a plastic plate that was no longer in it's factory position after replacing the pump. 

Pump replacement took a lot of time, but I didn't want a dealership hack job, specifically when a technician only gets paid 1.3 hours according to the factory recall. 

After doing this job, and fully bleeding the system, I can see where thermostats and alternators end up having problems after pump repair. There's no way a job that pays 3.8 hours out of warranty should be 1.3 in warranty. 

Anyway I digress..


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