# Uh Oh, GM discovered new engine issue?? Please Read!



## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

It's for either engine by the way, which is why I created this thread in the general 'Engine and Tech' section, not engine specific.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

WOW! ONE more thing to worry about. Thank God I leased. I never owned a car where I had to ADD oil between oil changes. Thanks for the heads up. Guess I'll be opening the hood now! Always something.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

It's a seldom occurance from what I understand, but I'm informing you guys now to check your oil levels occaisionally(which everyone should be doing every fuel-up anyways), so you can get it taken care of sooner than later, granted you actually have the issue.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Is this for model year 2011's, or certain build dates in 2011?

So, check the oil every few weeks. Like we should be anyhow.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

I don't believe there's a window of build date sciphi, just more common on the 2011's than 12's. 

As for your second sentence, exactly. ccasion14:


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## Chevyderek72 (May 16, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up onlytaurus! 

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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Sounds like whoever has this issue will be covered under the 100k mile powertrain warranty. The issue should reveal itself long before the warranty runs out.

I don't see this being a problem at all.

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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

Not a problem man. That's the response I'm hoping to get, lol. Not the 'what the f***! I hate this d*** car!, I'm trading it in!' responses. LOL!


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Sounds like whoever has this issue will be covered under the 100k mile powertrain warranty. The issue should reveal itself long before the warranty runs out.
> 
> I don't see this being a problem at all.
> 
> Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


Exactly.

It's nothing to get pissed about. Sure, the inconvenience might suck at first. But hey, you're going to get a brand new engine out of it. What's the problem?!  lol.


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## Bac n Black (Aug 2, 2012)

Thats why we have warranties, PIA but so are a lot of things in life. Often its not the problem but how the problem is handled that counts.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

1 quart in 3000 miles is darned generous of GM. Toyota says that 1 quart in 2000 miles is completely normal on some of their small engines.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

sciphi said:


> 1 quart in 3000 miles is darned generous of GM. Toyota says that 1 quart in 2000 miles is completely normal on some of their small engines.


It's funny, the service bulletin says a quart per 3000 for normal driving conditions, but one can expect 2000 under aggressive driving conditions. Honestly though, with a warranty involved, who's REALLY going to admit to aggressive driving.. lol. :1poke:


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

So there is a permanent fix?


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm assuming with redesigned engines(metal types atleast), but it makes me wonder why only some are experiencing this and not most if not all?


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

OnlyTaurus said:


> I'm assuming with redesigned engines(metal types atleast), but it makes me wonder why only some are experiencing this and not most if not all?


Manufacturing variances. Some of the rings will be at the big end of the spec, and some blocks will have bores just over the small end of spec. Combine the two, and problems result. 

At least this isn't Saturn-bad yet, where every single car is affected at some point.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

fastdriver said:


> WOW! ONE more thing to worry about. Thank God I leased. I never owned a car where I had to ADD oil between oil changes. Thanks for the heads up. Guess I'll be opening the hood now! Always something.


You never owned an old jeep. They were designed to burn oil.


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## 2013Cruze (Aug 4, 2012)

Maybe it affects more 2011 because they have more miles on them than the 2012 Cruzes?


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## smorey78 (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up. will be checking oil more offten. This sound like the 4.2L's in the trailblazers when the steel sleaves would move and you had to replaced the short block. I hated doing them under warrnty...but i know the customer was happy it was still under...big $$$. You will have this...GM hub bearings were always junk, Dodge transmissions, Ford spark plugs in the 5.4's GM W, N bodies intakes. Nothing is perfect and as long as they fix it No problem here. Look at it this way. Lets say it happens to your car at 30,000 miles you get a new engine...its like starting over!


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

2013Cruze said:


> Maybe it affects more 2011 because they have more miles on them than the 2012 Cruzes?


We have a few 2012's that are getting up there in miles. One guy's over 50k miles already, and I'm at 28k miles 1 year on. No oil burning so far on mine...


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

see:

• GM Bulletin #*01-06-01-011 *(page 3, right column) : http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/July-Techlink-2012-F.pdf

• GM *PIP5036*: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-1...lly-admitting-there-problem-1-4l-pistons.html


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

been checking mine monthly and it doesn't change at all it stays at the same level all the time. knock on wood. 

been using amsoil and moibl EP oil. does using a fully synthetic have any affect on the problem? like keep it from showing up or delaying it showing up?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

jsusanka said:


> does using a fully synthetic have any affect on the problem? like keep it from showing up or delaying it showing up?


I can't say for this engine, but my experience with other ecotec engines says it will have no effect on if/when this occurs. Seen quite a few 2.2 & 2.4 ecotec engines that use a quart of oil every 2000miles(including my old car). Even at 5000miles in the cruze there was no apparent use of oil.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

Do these cars have a low oil light or is it just a loss of oil pressure light?


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Hoon said:


> Do these cars have a low oil light or is it just a *loss of oil pressure *light?


...it's just a YES or NO lamp.


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

obermd said:


> You never owned an old jeep. They were designed to burn oil.



Only owned TWO Chrysler products in my whole life! One was great and the other a NIGHTMARE just like the Plymouth Fury in the Stephen King novel/movie Christine! The good one was a 1963 Chrysler 300 convertible- Claret Red with a white top and claret red leather and a pushbutton transmission. The second was a 1999 Chrysler 300M, Candy Apple Red with gray leather. THAT was the NIGHTMARE car! Chrysler spent about $3,500+ in warranty repairs on that car in the 3 years I had it. I verified that with someone I met online who worked for Chrysler and looked it up for me. Everything he sent me matched all my invoices to a T! One "award-winning 5-STAR" dealer was WORSE than the next! There will NEVER be another Chrysler product in my life even if they were the LAST car company around! So no- no oil burners in my life! Hopefully I won't have one now either!


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## Mattburgess (May 29, 2012)

Can't they use some sort of a mini camera and look through the spark plug holes to see the piston walls? Instead of ripping the head off and causing other problems ..


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Mattburgess said:


> Can't they use some sort of a mini camera and look through the spark plug holes to see the piston walls? Instead of ripping the head off and causing other problems ..


...yes, they could but apparently they (GM) aren't that smart; and, ironically, that device is called a "*bore-scope*" (ha,ha).


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...yes, they could but apparently they (GM) aren't that smart; and, ironically, that device is called a "*bore-scope*" (ha,ha).


Actually Cuda, and don't ask me why because I never got a good reason, but I asked him why we could judt use a scope instead of ripping every head off. GM does not want decisions based on a picture, as it can seem distorted or something other. They want them physically inspected.

I dunno... makes sense, but lol..


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> see:
> 
> • GM Bulletin #*01-06-01-011 *(page 3, right column) : http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/July-Techlink-2012-F.pdf
> 
> • GM *PIP5036*: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-1...lly-admitting-there-problem-1-4l-pistons.html


1 quart per 1000 miles. Atleast. That sounds better.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

OnlyTaurus said:


> Actually Cuda, and don't ask me why because I never got a good reason, but I asked him why we could judt use a scope instead of ripping every head off. GM does not want decisions based on a picture, as it can seem distorted or something other. They want them physically inspected.
> 
> I dunno... makes sense, but lol..


...GM would never become _my_ Doctor, tearing apart patients to get "physically inspected" rather than using *non-invasive *methods like X-Rays, CAT-scans and MRI's = a lot of _dead_ patients (engines)?

...GOOD Doctors use tiny scopes to do laproscopic SURGERY on *eyes*, *hearts*, *brains*, etc., so they should be more than good enough for a *metal* engine!


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I guess a borescope might not have good enough resolution to pick up the striping? Not my problem if GM wants to rip the heads off to physically inspect, though.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

sciphi said:


> I guess a borescope might not have good enough resolution to pick up the striping? Not my problem if GM wants to rip the heads off to physically inspect, though.


Hey it's money for us techs, lol. It could be the resolution, though borescopes nowadays have HD monitors. I think what they're concerned about is the light of the borescope reflecting off the walls and making it SEEM like the striping is present, when really its a shadowing of some sort. My guess at least..


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

Ok, no one else has asked. What was wrong with the AC?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

cecaa850 said:


> Ok, no one else has asked. What was wrong with the AC?


Maybe because that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I am quite happy with the ac in my car. At first it was not cold enough but after having a friend check the system was low on R-134. Now if I had to complain it would be I can only run my AC for 10minutes before I get too cold! Only way I can leave the AC on for longer periods is on fan speed 2.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

cecaa850 said:


> Ok, no one else has asked. What was wrong with the AC?


Hahaha I was waiting for it.

Believe it or not, on top of the condensor there is a strip of foam that runs accross the top, couldn't be any more than an inch thick. Well it was missing.. causing some of the air that were to 'cool' the condenser escape past it. Wierd I thought. Logical, but wierd. Replaced the strip, hello normal A/C operation. 

There ya go, lol.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

OnlyTaurus said:


> Hahaha I was waiting for it.
> 
> Believe it or not, on top of the condensor there is a strip of foam that runs accross the top, couldn't be any more than an inch thick. Well it was missing.. causing some of the air that were to 'cool' the condenser escape past it. Wierd I thought. Logical, but wierd. Replaced the strip, hello normal A/C operation.
> 
> There ya go, lol.


Here's the tough one - can your A/C guys figure out why the Cruze has such a lousy A/C system?:banghead:


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## WMPthree (Apr 27, 2012)

How's the tune affect this?


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

obermd said:


> Here's the tough one - can your A/C guys figure out why the Cruze has such a lousy A/C system?:banghead:


The better question would be why SOME Cruzes have lousy AC systems. Mine will give me a chill even when it's in the 100+ range outside. My wife will turn the vents away from her because she gets cold. I have no complaints.


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## cecaa850 (Apr 9, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Maybe because that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.


Re-read the first sentence in the original post.:th_coolio:


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

Yeah, I don't know what to say man. I have no problems pumping cold air under any conditions.

FWIW, there is an issue with some A/C compressors. Excessive internal lashing, but the result is an annoying noise.


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## Dale_K (Jul 16, 2011)

Don't all Cruze have a cast iron block? And the other motor has an aluminum block with steel sleaves? Cast iron blocks are such an ancient technology you'd think they would be immune to high tech metalurgical issues. I follow the GM Technlink site and saw the article with pictures about the issue on the 2.4 motor.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

No, the 2.4 has cast iron block, or we would just be replacing sleeves I'm sure.


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

OnlyTaurus said:


> No, the 2.4 has cast iron block, or we would just be replacing sleeves I'm sure.


Are you sure? GM powertrain website lists all of the 2.4 ecotecs as aluminum blocks. And the Cruze with cast grey iron blocks for both engines.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

mcg75 said:


> Are you sure? GM powertrain website lists all of the 2.4 ecotecs as aluminum blocks. And the Cruze with cast grey iron blocks for both engines.


Maybe the newer 2.4 is different, but I thought all ecotecs in that family(2.0,2.2,2.4) used an aluminum block.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

For the 2010's LAF that had the striping issue, there are no cylinder sleeves on them. Can't be aluminum..


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## ECOmaniac (Mar 14, 2012)

+1 for the catch can. The oil will essentially make its way back to the intake to be coated =), some burned. I'll be installing one regardless of this in the next few months.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

Not a bad idea ECO. Here's a good question for everyone.

Speaking of catch cans, do you think/feel installing one would void your warranty if something were to happen? It's a component that does nothing more but to help your combustion chamber be free of oil. Makes me wonder what dealers/GM would think of us installing helpful systems like this, granted it's installed correctly of course.

A boost gauge even(mechanical or electronic), they are in fact very good diagnostic tools, not just there for looks. If there's a vacuum leak, the gauge will show it. If there's an underboost/overboost condition, it will show it. You find one day that your car is running rough at idle and your gauge shows 15inHg when it should be 22inHg. You can take your car to the dealer and say 'Hey, I think I have a vacuum issue, my boost gauge show improper vacuum." It's a legitimate tool really.

What do you think? Would/should they frown upon stuff like this?


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

OnlyTaurus said:


> For the 2010's LAF that had the striping issue, there are no cylinder sleeves on them. Can't be aluminum..


If they changed from a cast aluminum to iron, they usually change the engine designation as well. 

Buick - Canada - Regal

That link lists the LAF as sand cast aluminum. 

Chevrolet

This link is from 2010 when the 2.4 LAF made Ward's top 10 engines. The article says "all aluminum"


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

I guess I better check my oil. Although my idiot light better not tell me that my oil change has 70% life on it when it's 2 quarts down. This car should be maintenance free for a long time. I didn't plan on opening the hood on this car while I owned it. 


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## fastdriver (Jan 7, 2011)

OnlyTaurus said:


> Not a bad idea ECO. Here's a good question for everyone.
> 
> Speaking of catch cans, do you think/feel installing one would void your warranty if something were to happen? It's a component that does nothing more but to help your combustion chamber be free of oil. Makes me wonder what dealers/GM would think of us installing helpful systems like this, granted it's installed correctly of course.
> 
> ...



I THINK that GM would frown on ANY changes/additions according to this clip from GM TechLink-

Aftermarket Calibrations and GM Warranty Coverage - GM Techlink


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I saw the writeup on zebra tracking in GMTechlink and thought back to an earlier thread here about piston slap in a Cruze. Yes, check your oil level often to make sure you don't have an issue out of warranty. To the OP, I hope this thread is not a career ending, or limiting, incident. Thanks for letting folks know what is going on.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

fastdriver said:


> WOW! ONE more thing to worry about. Thank God I leased. I never owned a car where I had to ADD oil between oil changes. Thanks for the heads up. Guess I'll be opening the hood now! Always something.


I had a 3.0 L V6 Ford that used a quart every 500 miles from new. Dealer service department said it was normal. Yeah, right! That one became a problem for some other sucker.

On the other side of the spectrum, my '97 Civic EX uses a quart every 5,000 miles and my '03 P5 uses no oil between the 10,000 mile interval changes. Mobil1 in both all their lives.


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## UlyssesSG (Apr 5, 2011)

OnlyTaurus said:


> I don't believe there's a window of build date sciphi, just more common on the 2011's than 12's.


Logical, as the 2011's have been in service longer. Your report immediately makes me wonder if it's the highy-touted 'Diamond Rings' they're using in the Cruze and Sonic may be contributing to or causing the wear. Not a good omen if true. Also, and I hate to say it, this issue brings back very bad memories of the unlamented Chevrolet Vega which promised innovative, cutting edge engine materials technology and delivered a real-world oil-sucking piece of junk.

*‘Diamond Rings’ Shine on Chevrolet Sonic, Cruze
**Extra-hard, low-friction carbon coating prolongs life of piston rings, aids fuel efficiency*


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

*UlyssesSG* -- that was my *consensus* as well. Another "great idea" with 'unintended consequences' that GM will _"...deny, deny, deny..." _as usual.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> To the OP, I hope this thread is not a career ending, or limiting, incident. Thanks for letting folks know what is going on.


No problem! No worries  lol I don't see how it would be.


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