# Worst car I've ever owned.



## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

I've had nothing but negative experiences with this vehicle since it was purchased, numerous recalls and malfunctioning equipment, the intended purchase of this vehicle was to be used as a dependable means of going back and forth to work only. I'm at 80k miles now and I'm getting stabilitrak,power steering lose and traction control warning lights all popping on and sometimes the ABS is disabled, but hey? I can't even begin to put into details of my disappointment and anger towards this vehicle, it's been nothing but a headache an pile of junk.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Your very first post..........bitching.......about a known issue with a no charge fix for ten years.

I'll not bother......search is your friend.

Happy holidays.

Rob


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

**** right I'm bitching, and yes I found the common cause of this issue, and no it didn't fix it.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Next time buy the car new and pay the money for an extended warranty if you continue to be driven by fear and anxiety. 

Oh yeah, bring it to a qualified dealer for service and not wal-mart or Joe's garage. 

Merry Christmas


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

So it has to be brand spanking new to avoid problems? much like the guy that started experiencing problems one week after his brand new purchase was made. It's never been serviced outside the dealership it was purchased from.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Sounds like you have never owned a 90's Ford with the 3.8 L engine and the AXOD-E automatic transmission. Nor a Corvair or a Chevette. Could toss in a Plymouth Horizon or any early model Chrysler mini-van. a Yugo, and perhaps a bunch of other vehicles if I take the time to think a little. 

Not talking about about a couple of flashing lights, talking about repairs in the thousands.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Ret0102 said:


> So it has to be brand spanking new to avoid problems? much like the guy that started experiencing problems one week after his brand new purchase was made. It's never been serviced outside the dealership it was purchased from.


Excellent. Now we are starting a dialogue. 

Kindly tell us us the model, year, and mileage of your vehicle.


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## neile300c (Jul 8, 2014)

What can / did Walmart do to cause these problems? They only do oil changes and tire work.



Tomko said:


> Next time buy the car new and pay the money for an extended warranty if you continue to be driven by fear and anxiety.
> 
> Oh yeah, bring it to a qualified dealer for service and not wal-mart or Joe's garage.
> 
> Merry Christmas


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

NickD said:


> Sounds like you have never owned a 90's Ford with the 3.8 L engine and the AXOD-E automatic transmission. Nor a Corvair or a Chevette. Could toss in a Plymouth Horizon or any early model Chrysler mini-van. a Yugo, and perhaps a bunch of other vehicles if I take the time to think a little.
> 
> Not talking about about a couple of flashing lights, talking about repairs in the thousands.


I'll be honest, I've never been anything but a Chevy owner, I've always taken pride in nothing but Chevy vehicles, I can't believe this little car has so many problems.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

neile300c said:


> What can / did Walmart do to cause these problems? They only do oil changes and tire work.



He pulled the Walmart bit from the same crevice he pulled his thoughts from, I'd imagine wal-mart is just as qualified to do an oil change as the next bunch.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Ret0102 said:


> He pulled the Walmart bit from the same crevice he pulled his thoughts from, I'd imagine wal-mart is just as qualified to do an oil change as the next bunch.


Have some respect angry young man from Kansas or find yourself banned.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Would you like to restart the discussion with model/year/mileage and some background regarding all the issues or shall we let the thread disappear and just recommend trading the car in to eliminate the aggravation?

OP? Your call.

Rob


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Ret0102 said:


> **** right I'm bitching, and yes I found the common cause of this issue, and no it didn't fix it.


So what exactly happened? Did the dealer replace the cable or simply say "can't reproduce the problem" and sent you on your way?


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Have some respect angry young man from Kansas or find yourself banned.


Then show some respect yourself. It's a 2011 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4ltr Turbo with 80k miles. If it looks like a typo it probably is, hands are to big for this laptop. I recently replaced what I thought was a bad crimped battery cable, and for a whole day the issue had stopped, only a check engine light remained, but went away after turning the car back off and on, the next day the issue resurfaced. Something else I also noticed, it that the battery voltage is awkward, it drops down to 13.3 then back to 14.5 not instantly, it builds after dropping, but still it's dropping. I had previously replaced the battery because of this issue, the battery that's installed now is only a month or so old.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

@ChevyGuy

I seriously believe they try and avoid warranty work, and it's the only dealer in my area. I replaced the bad cable myself. I'm leaning towards the EBCM being bad now, I've also read that it causes similar issues.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I'd suggest a second look at that cable. Check for voltage drops.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Ret0102 said:


> Then show some respect yourself. It's a 2011 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4ltr Turbo with 80k miles. If it looks like a typo it probably is, hands are to big for this laptop. I recently replaced what I thought was a bad crimped battery cable, and for a whole day the issue had stopped, only a check engine light remained, but went away after turning the car back off and on, the next day the issue resurfaced. Something else I also noticed, it that the battery voltage is awkward, it drops down to 13.3 then back to 14.5 not instantly, it builds after dropping, but still it's dropping. I had previously replaced the battery because of this issue, the battery that's installed now is only a month or so old.


Are we safe in assuming the dealer replaced the negative cable and resecured the five ground points on the core support and fender apron?

Rob


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

Ret0102 said:


> @*ChevyGuy*
> 
> I seriously believe they try and avoid warranty work, and it's the only dealer in my area. I replaced the bad cable myself. I'm leaning towards the EBCM being bad now, I've also read that it causes similar issues.


Most people in your situation who are suspicious of the dealer not doing quality work or simply not caring tend to go to another dealer. Are you within reasonable driving distance to try that?


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Ret0102 said:


> I'm leaning towards the EBCM being bad now, I've also read that it causes similar issues.


I'd lean toward bad power. The question is what's causing it. The bad crimp is common, but may not be the only weak point.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Ret0102 said:


> It's never been serviced outside the dealership it was purchased from.





Ret0102 said:


> I replaced the bad cable myself.


So you work at your dealership?

Either way, whoever changed your cable was not qualified to do it.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

LiveTrash said:


> Most people in your situation who are suspicious of the dealer not doing quality work or simply not caring tend to go to another dealer. Are you within reasonable driving distance to try that?


Considering the distance to get out of this area of bad support I do have an appointment with another dealer roughly 2hrs away (depending on traffic)


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Tomko said:


> So you work at your dealership?
> 
> Either way, whoever changed your cable was not qualified to do it.



Dude, your just like, Mr Negative be-little everyone type of guy right? unless I'm just taking **** the wrong way.Yes, replaced it myself, Looks good, nice and tighty! and clean!


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> I'd lean toward bad power. The question is what's causing it. The bad crimp is common, but may not be the only weak point.


I'm thinking the same thing, however like I was saying, the voltage does drop, but it build back up also. I swear, I'd almost bet the cable that it was replaced with was bad also.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

If there ever was an electronic device that cause me more grief and problems, it the computer, can be either software or hardware.

As far as I am concerned, can take ABS, traction/stability control, TPMS, and shove these up their butts, but is the law of the land. If people don't know how to drive or check their vehicles have no business on the roads. 

Microprocessors have millions of transistor, and millions of bits of code, only one bit can be the problem and all vehicles use electrically erasable ram storing the invaluable code. An Application Specific Integrated Circuit can be designed to do all these functions without lossable memory. 

Using point contacts relays for key control is positively stupid, worst power switching device in the world. Using dissimilar metals for conductivity is the first major mistake. But who does this today? All vehicle manufacturers. 

Key element requiring all these emission controls culprit is carbon, HC's are highly carcinogenic. Kind of cure by installing an extremely expensive exhaust system, but congress said no to getting rid of the carbon, also the key element for plugging up an IC engine. 

But now they are saying carbon dioxide is causing global warming, but to be politically correct changes this to climate change. But the amount of carbon dioxide in the air is tantamount to saying lighting a candle in your home will overheat it. 

Cure to compensating for poor traction between a rubber tire and a road surface is not improving this this traction, but to pouring zillions of tons of salt on the roads that is causing us a zillion dollars worth of damage, not only to the vehicles, but to the road surface and bridges themselves.

This is the kind of world our idiot leaders made for us.

Trying checking the voltage drop between your battery terminals and their respective loads. And under load, if greater than 0.1 volts, you have problems. Check out your ignition relay, this poor POS made in China is switching on some major loads, and microprocessors require a sharp rise time voltage to be reset properly, if not, everything goes crazy. 

Want to really waste your time? Write your congressman. Really want some action? Get everyone in this country to leave this crap in the showroom.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

NickD said:


> If there ever was an electronic device that cause me more grief and problems, it the computer, can be either software or hardware.
> 
> As far as I am concerned, can take ABS, traction/stability control, TPMS, and shove these up their butts, but is the law of the land. If people don't know how to drive or check their vehicles have no business on the roads.
> 
> ...



Thanks Nick for the positive feedback. I'm going to have the cables checked again Tuesday, everything points to that being the problem, my only conclusion is that I just received another bad cable as a replacement.


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## JDH (Dec 24, 2014)

neile300c said:


> What can / did Walmart do to cause these problems? They only do oil changes and tire work.


Cut the wires to the wheel speed sensor on one of my cars during tire work. The ABS computer wasn't real happy until it was replaced.


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## neile300c (Jul 8, 2014)

how do you do that, just changing a tire?




JDH said:


> Cut the wire to the wheel speed sensor wires on one of my cars during tire work. The ABS computer wasn't real happy until it was replaced.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

JDH said:


> Cut the wire to the wheel speed sensor wires on one of my cars during tire work. The ABS computer wasn't real happy until it was replaced.



I'd like to "LOL" but it ain't even funny, especially with a Cruze and all of it's known bugs, just glad you got it sorted.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Spent more time getting rid of those convenient connectors to the sensors, would corrode like crazy with ABS generating error codes. Really not convenient.

Can't be entirely negative, many improvements were made over the years in seals and lubricants, how about doing a major overhaul with around 40K miles on a vehicle. Bearing inserts were a great improvement, was pouring babbitt for main and rod bearings, and very expensive connector rod and line boring equipment was necessary. Lucky to get 20K miles on generator brushes, point contact voltage regulators and ignition points were constant problems. Eutectic alloy pistons gave us close to a 200K mile engine. 

So all not bad.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

We all can get concerned when we have issues with our cars, myself included. This issue sounds aggravating but yikes let's keep this is perspective. Get this issue fixed. Getting fussy with members here for a long time doesn't serve you well. Just my 2 cents. Merry Christmas.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Ret0102 said:


> Dude, your just like, Mr Negative be-little everyone type of guy right? unless I'm just taking **** the wrong way.Yes, replaced it myself, Looks good, nice and tighty! and clean!


The negative responses you received were a result of joining a enthusiast forum and, without introducing yourself, bashing your car and the product in general.......

Trouble with that approach is a enthusiast forum is, for the most part, populated with enthusiastic owners sharing their experiences or trying to help one another out.........that means, the vast majority are fond of their car and reasonably secure in their purchass decision.

Adding to the sour start, no information, other than admitting the vehicle is a Cruze, was provided beyond it being the worst car you ever owned.

As you can see, the tone changed once you began providing information.......and it will remain positive as long as you do......we have no axe to grind and the more members (and information) we can get, the more assistance we can provide if asked.

This forum has five model years of information at its disposal......yours to enjoy.

Regards,
Rob


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Ret0102 said:


> however like I was saying, the voltage does drop, but it build back up also. I swear, I'd almost bet the cable that it was replaced with was bad also.


Not an impossibility. I'm not sure what part the dealer was supposed to use to make sure it was good. They might have been required to use a different part number.

You might want to add another voltmeter. The ECM gets it's ground though the small cable attached to the negative battery terminal. The alternator has an internal limit as to how much it can put out. Apparently there's no code for "The ECM has gone to 100% and still not getting enough voltage." (The ECM is the voltage regulator.) 

Bottom line, a bad cable could cause a voltage loss from the charging system to where the ECM reads the voltage.

The voltage does change to some extent depending on what charging mode the ECM is running in, but 13.3 sounds too low to me.

Have you added any accessories to the car? Did you connect them directly to the battery's negitive termainl? If so, you could be confusing the ECM. It has a current sensor in the negative battery lead. It should be measuring ONLY battery current. But if you connect things directly to the battery, it may not be.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Just to add to the earlier comment about the additional ground connections under the hood. Earlier Cruzen ('11 & '12) had a production issue where the body ground connections were getting painted over during the paint process. They were supposed to be protected by the nut, but the nuts weren't being run down to the body, just spun on enough so they didn't fall off. This left a potential for poor connections that would deteriorate with age. Don't forget, the 2011 was the first year MY production for the U.S. built first generation Cruze.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Corvair , IT`s name were bob.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Jim Frye said:


> Just to add to the earlier comment about the additional ground connections under the hood. Earlier Cruzen ('11 & '12) had a production issue where the body ground connections were getting painted over during the paint process. They were supposed to be protected by the nut, but the nuts weren't being run down to the body, just spun on enough so they didn't fall off. This left a potential for poor connections that would deteriorate with age. Don't forget, the 2011 was the first year MY production for the U.S. built first generation Cruze.


I think I'd be tempted to add a star washer to the bottom of the stack to bite though any paint or rust.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

ChevyGuy said:


> I think I'd be tempted to add a star washer to the bottom of the stack to bite though any paint or rust.


Excellent point and has been embraced.

The addition of the star washers, usually internal, seems to be the way the majority of 'good' dealer service departments are handling the concern along with the updated cable.

I hope the DIY crowd reads these suggestions.......this exposes a shortcoming of a lot of independent shops that haven't subscribed to the various manufacturer service sites......

Rob


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## JDH (Dec 24, 2014)

neile300c said:


> how do you do that, just changing a tire?


When you hire techs at just above minimum wage you get what you pay for. Nothing that happens in a Walmart service bay surprises me anymore.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

OP, you never did answer the question of model year and trim. This can make a difference in how to troubleshoot but your initial post indicates you have a bad negative battery cable and/or a bad body ground.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Ober: See post #14.


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## MB2014LT2 (Feb 23, 2015)

I just paid $500 for the extended warranty on "all of the electronics".


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> Not an impossibility. I'm not sure what part the dealer was supposed to use to make sure it was good. They might have been required to use a different part number.
> 
> You might want to add another voltmeter. The ECM gets it's ground though the small cable attached to the negative battery terminal. The alternator has an internal limit as to how much it can put out. Apparently there's no code for "The ECM has gone to 100% and still not getting enough voltage." (The ECM is the voltage regulator.)
> 
> ...


I added no accessories to the vehicle, seen where you had mentioned in one of your later posts about the production problem where the nuts didn't offer enough protection from the paint and it got through to possibly cause proper connection problems, this sounds like the problem because I noticed that when it was being changed, I just don't understand why it would start causing problems at this mileage now, who knows, something else could have shifted underneath also and lost it's once good connection.

Thanks for all the reply's, they are a big help and encouragement that I won't have to go out and buy another vehicle. Still mad at Chevy though, they can do better than this, I've driven a lot of vehicles but I've always owned a Chevy.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Ret0102 said:


> I'd imagine wal-mart is just as qualified to do an oil change as the next bunch.


Actually Walmart "techs" are completely untrained and could damage your car. My brother always got his oil changed at Walmart even though the techs came out and told him they didn't have an oil filter socket big enough to remove the 2.2L Ecotec 32mm filter housing cover. he let them use his 32mm he had in the center console. 

I went with him once, he paid for mobil 1 and I watched the tech pour in regular cheap walmart oil. Guy behind the counter tried claiming they have different bottles than retail, I told him I was going to call the store manager if I didn't see them put the right oil in the car. Needless to say my brother finally stopped going to walmart so called service center. 

BTW it's not just walmart, a friend worded at Valvoline oil change place just out of highschool, told me they NEVER put synthetic in customers cars and if you pay for it your just paying for that oil to go in the employees personal rides.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Would consider the 04 Cavalier to still be in the basic car class using all power switches for the electrical. Uses and ECU with code stored in flashram, erasable memory, but this was true of every vehicle made in the USA since the advent of OBD II that was made into law by the EPA, blame the EPA for this. Not ran by experts, but some other politician whose only claim to fame helped the president get elected. 

OBD 1 was introduced more slowly in the years 1985 to 1989 when fuel injection replaced the carbs, but did use a microprocessor with code burnt into a chip. With fuel injection, along came the electric fuel pump, some used an external pump that was far more reliable. But was learned they could be made much cheaper if immersed in gas like in the fuel tank. Had to replace the engine driven fuel pump in my 82 454 CID engine, brand new one was around 20 bucks, Cruze for the cheap piece of plastic that would burn up instantly without gas cooling it is 250 bucks. But not only the Cruze, all vehicles are this way now, domestic and imports. Very expensive for the consumer that can't do it himself to pay to get this done.

Point contact relays have been used for a long time, but only a couple, namely for the high speed on the blower motor. AC compressor, and for the fuel pump, front wheel drive added a couple of more for the engine cooling fan. These were rugged and plugged into hand wired sockets. Now just about anything requiring power switching uses these cheap made in China, printed circuit mounted relays. No real switches at your command, but tiny push button things that fire commands to the BCM or ECU. Not only the Cruze, all new cars are made this way. 

We used to use the minimum of 16 AWG plated stranded wire regardless of the load, just because it was far more robust, now you find single strand 30 AWG wire unplated for BCM and ECU commands. One reason for this is that our glorious EPA banned electroplating in this country. Even switch contacts in late 80's and most 90's vehicles used bare copper, high end vehicles were permitted to use good old fashion tungsten contacts that were far more reliable. Using relays mounted under the hood permits the use of much shorter wire lengths.

Don't and never blame engineers for this, most of use knew better, but were forced to do this or they would find somebody else that would. Major goal was to make everything as cheap as possible. 

With the advent of the microcontroller basically an entire computer in a single super cheap 3 level CMOS chip certainly had a price advantage over the new mixed signal technology combining both digital and analog capacity in the same chip. Practically all of the engine controls are analog, a natural for this application. But microcontrollers were much cheaper. EPA insisted on flashram supposingly because updates could be made much easier for new emission requirements that were made lower each and every year. Really doubt if this is much cheaper when it takes some idiot mechanic a half a day to try to download firmware and install it, and always glitches over the internet. Still feel it would be cheaper to pop in a PROM chip that doesn't lose its code, but you can't fight city hall.

Be thankful congress did block OBD III, at least so far, this would fire commands to a central computer so big brother know exactly where you are and how fast you are driving, could even get a speeding ticket in the mail or know you didn't come to a complete stop at a deserted intersection. But depending on the next election, could expect this, technology already exists.

DOT dictates how unbodies are to be built, one key reason why all new passenger vehicles look exactly the same, a crushable body to absorb the crash. Use to be a world of difference between the Chevy and the Caddy, but with the latter, a lot more crap and a lot more problems. Use to love my Caddies, but not anymore, really don't need more problems. 

So driving Chevy's now.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> Ober: See post #14.


Thanks Jim. Missed it.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

spacedout said:


> Actually Walmart "techs" are completely untrained and could damage your car. My brother always got his oil changed at Walmart even though the techs came out and told him they didn't have an oil filter socket big enough to remove the 2.2L Ecotec 32mm filter housing cover. he let them use his 32mm he had in the center console.
> 
> I went with him once, he paid for mobil 1 and I watched the tech pour in regular cheap walmart oil. Guy behind the counter tried claiming they have different bottles than retail, I told him I was going to call the store manager if I didn't see them put the right oil in the car. Needless to say my brother finally stopped going to walmart so called service center.
> 
> BTW it's not just walmart, a friend worded at Valvoline oil change place just out of highschool, told me they NEVER put synthetic in customers cars and if you pay for it your just paying for that oil to go in the employees personal rides.


This is why I won't get my oil changed anywhere I can't watch unless it's a dealership. If the dealership screws up it doesn't matter - I'll have the documentation showing only GM Certified monkeys have been changing the oil. GM will have to cover the damage and I'll let them go after the dealership on their own time and dime.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

That's why I change my own oil with court proof documentation, know exactly what's going in, don't spill a drop and only takes about twenty minutes with a brand new documented Delco filter. Can do this quicker than driving to my dealer plus they are always late, even with an appointment, and have the complete satisfaction, the job is done right.

In ten months, 5 year PT warranty is up, will skip the documentation part.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Got my car into the shop today, there is nothing wrong with the negative battery cable replacement. After they pulled the vehicle into place and shut it off it did it's typical thing, it wouldn't start back up, so they checked the battery and all voltages looked good, however they couldn't get there computer to connect to the vehicle to get a read out on the codes since it wouldn't start, I left it overnight usually that about how long it takes for it to reset and be able to start again, once we get to that point we should know more about it tomorrow. The technician that worked with me today on this vehicle reassured me though that he checked all cables and grounds and that was not the case with this auto, he said his best guess and idea was that one of the modules had went out and once the vehicle was able to start up again he would be able to identify which modules had went bad in the vehicle. I'll have to say that I'm pretty frustrated, who knows how much money I'll end up having to pay for this thing, while I was there today I got a pretty good trade in offer as well as a nice deal on a new vehicle, I really like my cruz and I hate to let it go, but it looks like this might be the better decision to make.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Ret0102 said:


> Got my car into the shop today, there is nothing wrong with the negative battery cable replacement. After they pulled the vehicle into place and shut it off it did it's typical thing, it wouldn't start back up, so they checked the battery and all voltages looked good, however they couldn't get there computer to connect to the vehicle to get a read out on the codes since it wouldn't start, I left it overnight usually that about how long it takes for it to reset and be able to start again, once we get to that point we should know more about it tomorrow. The technician that worked with me today on this vehicle reassured me though that he checked all cables and grounds and that was not the case with this auto, he said his best guess and idea was that one of the modules had went out and once the vehicle was able to start up again he would be able to identify which modules had went bad in the vehicle. I'll have to say that I'm pretty frustrated, who knows how much money I'll end up having to pay for this thing, while I was there today I got a pretty good trade in offer as well as a nice deal on a new vehicle, I really like my cruz and I hate to let it go, but it looks like this might be the better decision to make.


At least it did it for the tech. Intermittent electrical problems are a royal PIA to isolate.


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## roadrunnerA12 (Jan 21, 2015)

Guys like me and NickD don't need all that stuff - ABS, Traction Control, Stabiltrak, because we learned how to drive back in the day when cars were not wussified* with all that crap. Need to stop in the snow? Pump the brake aka poor man's ABS. Lost traction? Let off the gas!! Feel like you are going to tip over? Well, maybe Stabiltrak helps with that. But don't ever, ever wear your seatbelt if you think you are going to tip over and slide into a lake upside down. Could drown. Electrical tape works good on those warning lights - short pieces to cover them up.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

obermd said:


> At least it did it for the tech. Intermittent electrical problems are a royal PIA to isolate.


Agreed. However, I'm a little disturbed that the tech has to wait for the car to be able to start to continue to troubleshoot it. I'm pretty sure you should have some level of communication at all times. Or at least "key on". If it was me, I'd be all over that car trying to find the dead circuit. Because when that car starts, chances are there won't be a thing wrong with it. I'd think his motto should be troubleshoot it while it's dead, not when it's working.


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## GlennGlenn (Nov 27, 2015)

roadrunnerA12 said:


> Guys like me and NickD don't need all that stuff - ABS, Traction Control, Stabiltrak, because we learned how to drive back in the day when cars were not wussified* with all that crap. *Need to stop in the snow? Pump the brake aka poor man's ABS.* Lost traction? Let off the gas!! Feel like you are going to tip over? Well, maybe Stabiltrak helps with that. But don't ever, ever wear your seatbelt if you think you are going to tip over and slide into a lake upside down. Could drown. Electrical tape works good on those warning lights - short pieces to cover them up.


I agree with much of what you say and don't want to derail this thread , but a few years back I did the Bridgestone Winter Driving School. On non-ABS vehicles or those where TC etc can be turned off, it is preferable to have snow pile up under the " stopping tires" that act as sort of a snow Plow for resistance. In other words, build up of snow is good for stopping. ABS does not allow this build up as it releases snow upon each " pump." 

BTW, a Blizzak shod Toyota Camry with FWD only can beat an AWD vehicle around the course if properly driven. 


My hill Billy stabilitrak is known as counter steering to over or under steer.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> Agreed. However, I'm a little disturbed that the tech has to wait for the car to be able to start to continue to troubleshoot it. I'm pretty sure you should have some level of communication at all times. Or at least "key on". If it was me, I'd be all over that car trying to find the dead circuit. Because when that car starts, chances are there won't be a thing wrong with it. I'd think his motto should be troubleshoot it while it's dead, not when it's working.



The tech explained to me that it wouldn't start because of the power steering warning, he said once he could get that to clear that it would start, and no worries even after that light clears the rest stay on at all times, I've gotten lucky and a few times they would be cleared off when started, but within the first 2 minutes of the auto starting they all reappeared anyway so I have no doubts that it will do it again.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Hopefully they can find the issue. As for worst car, remember it's a 1st year production model. 1st year is always going to be beta test model. 

1st year productions usually have more features that are slowly deleted later in the model years but also have more issues from being rushed to market to compete with the other brands. 

Hilights from quick glance is battery cover, Z link, glove box light, center rear head rest, and more range in driver/passenger seats.



NickD said:


> That's why I change my own oil with court proof documentation, know exactly what's going in, don't spill a drop and only takes about twenty minutes with a brand new documented Delco filter. Can do this quicker than driving to my dealer plus they are always late, even with an appointment, and have the complete satisfaction, the job is done right.
> 
> 
> In ten months, 5 year PT warranty is up, will skip the documentation part.



Reason I hand the dealer Amsoil and a wix filter for them to do it slightly cheaper than if I did the exact same at insert hack jobery quick lube spot. Cut the middle man out and saves me from becoming a used oil hoarder again.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Ret0102 said:


> The tech explained to me that it wouldn't start because of the power steering warning, he said once he could get that to clear that it would start,


I can understand not remote starting, but this is the first I've heard of a code that would prevent "in person" starting.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> I can understand not remote starting, but this is the first I've heard of a code that would prevent "in person" starting.



Yeah, it had done me like this once before, but after sitting for almost half day it started right up no problems other than the usual warnings popping up, hopefully the car starts in the morning and they'll be able to sort out what the actual problem is, but something tells me I'm going to be out a lot of money.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Completely missed the powers steering prevented from being started part.

I had power steering go out and car started like 5 times before it self cleared.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Merc6 said:


> Completely missed the powers steering prevented from being started part.
> 
> I had power steering go out and car started like 5 times before it self cleared.



For whatever reason mine won't start while that light is on. I've always had to get it to clear before it would start, however it just might also be a coincidence as well. Regardless, I just wish my car was fixed already. Does anyone know if something like the BCM is out or another module of sorts if that's covered under the powertrain warranty?


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

On another note, the recall for the negative battery cable only states they the portion of the cable which the terminal is attached is the only cable to be replaced, is that correct?


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

So they got the car started this morning, they hooked up there diagnostics machine to it and it still didn't communicate properly and give them any codes. They are currently commencing a teardown to find either a bad ground/short/loose connection or faulty module. But in order to even start the bcm and ecm would have had to communicate properly right? So why didn't they store any codes?


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Problem solved, it was a very sneaky sneaky ECM module, and as my luck would have it the warranty ran out 3k miles ago.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Ret0102 said:


> Problem solved, it was a very sneaky sneaky ECM module, and as my luck would have it the warranty ran out 3k miles ago.


See if they'll call GM for a customer satisfaction warranty on the ECM module to help cover the cost of repair. You probably won't get full coverage but you might get a discount. Be nice when you ask.


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

The ecm was replaced today and all looked well however on closer inspection what looked like battery acid seemed to have drained down from the battery and got on some connectors, more importantly the TCM connector, corroded and almost dissolved this is going to have to be replaced as well. Guess I need to find a second job in order to keep this ride.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Ret0102 said:


> I had previously replaced the battery because of this issue, the battery that's installed now is only a month or so old.





Ret0102 said:


> The ecm was replaced today and all looked well however on closer inspection what looked like battery acid seemed to have drained down from the battery and got on some connectors, more importantly the TCM connector, corroded and almost dissolved this is going to have to be replaced as well. Guess I need to find a second job in order to keep this ride.


What kind of battery and who installed it?

As you are aware this is not a fault of the vehicle or its manufacturer. Either the battery was defective, tipped on installation and leaked acid from the vent, damaged or over-torqued upon installation. Possible the original battery was tipped upon removal and leaked acid from the vent.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Ret0102 said:


> Problem solved, it was a very sneaky sneaky ECM module, and as my luck would have it the warranty ran out 3k miles ago.


Any chance that you first brought this car in for this problem 3K miles ago?


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## N8zdad (Mar 23, 2014)

Glad you got to the bottom of the problem. Sounds like a perfect storm of crap hit you all at once with it.

Good luck and welcome. I wasn't sure you'd survive the first day!!!!


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## Ret0102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Actually I had it scheduled, but was unable to make the appointment as I work about 80hrs every week it gets hard to get things done sometimes. However I had some problems out of the battery that was installed with the car and when I had it replaced I guess the tech that pit in the new battery didn't notice that it had leaked out a bunch of acid underneath it. I just hope having the connector replaced/reined fixes the issue, this is starting to run into to high prices. Bcm talks to the ecm the as it moves forward to talk to the TCM it stops communication, upon inspection that connector that runs to the TCM is rubbers I just hope having this replaced fixes it and I don't have to replace the valve body, which it might lead to.


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