# Swapped Teams - Gen2 Cruze newbie prev VW TDI



## JPinSTL (Jul 9, 2018)

So I just bought a 2018 RS Hatch 6spd GM Program Car with 4K showing over the weekend. I'd been doing my 120 mile daily (30K/yr) commute in a '00 VW Golf TDI for the last 337,000 miles. But it needed a rebuild and some other work. The $5500 to keep it going did not make sense. I loved that car though and hope to have similar longevity with the new Cruze. I've been driving diesels and specifically VW TDI for the past 15yrs. The home fleet includes a Powerstroke 7.3, a Jeep Libby CRD, and a Kubota. 

I have some maintenance type questions based off my prev VW history:

So from what I can tell the Gen2 diesel does not have a timing belt. Cam chain is driven from the back of the crank. What maintenance interval is this? I'm assuming an interference engine design, so I want to stay on top of things.

The Cruze sits low, but not as much as the VWs. The VW oil pan is aluminum and sat perfectly for getting nailed with road debris. I had an aftermarket skid plate to replace the OEM snow shield as I live on a gravel road, but I can't seem to find a plate for the Cruze. Do they exist or not necessary?

Vag-Com is a USB Cable and software that allowed you to monitor/change several parameters beyond a regular OBDII. Does anything like this exist for the Cruze platform? I see that several things can be changed via the radio screen.

It was a 2hr drive back from the dealer and so far I'm seeing about 50mpg on the highway. My commute is 95% interstate and the VW was Winter/Summer 39/43mpg.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

The chain is made to be a "lifetime" design. If GM did things right, it should be a 250-300k design, especially since the whole transmission has to come out to access. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Welcome to Chevy, the TDI served its purpose well but you’ll love the Cruze Diesel even more.

As far as the OBDII monitor, the Torque Lite or Pro (Android) app with a Bluetooth OBDII Dongle is very popular as well as the Scan Gauge II.

https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-gen1-diesel-general-discussion/132666-scangauge-ii.html

https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/418...235210-2nd-gen-diesel-scan-gauge-x-codes.html

https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/10-gen1-powertrain/11095-andriod-obd-ii-app-adaptor.html


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

JPinSTL said:


> It was a 2hr drive back from the dealer and so far I'm seeing about 50mpg on the highway. My commute is 95% interstate and the VW was Winter/Summer 39/43mpg.


Welcome!

You're going to love the fuel economy in the Cruze.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

I also had a couple TDIs over the years.

There is no Ross Tech vag com equivalent.

You can't really "customize" modules as you could with the older VW / Audis. ya know, enabling things like rolling the windows up and down via fob etc etc.

The only way to make big changes on these cars to the modules is via a reflash and that requires at least a Pass-thru tool of some sort and a subscription to AC Delco TDS. And even at that you can only change things IF gm has released those changes for your car. 

To sum it up no. Nothing even close to Vagcom.


I also have a Hatch but mine is a 9 speed auto. Otherwise it sounds just like yours.

So far *only 1700 miles* I'm barely getting 42 mpg hand calculated.

That's approx what I'd average in my old 03' Golf with the 5 speed. Sometimes I'd get 46-48 over a tank and sometimes 40. It ended up being ~42-43 average over time.

So far it seems like this car is about the same but has a bunch more torque / hp and is all around funner to drive + much nicer gimgracks inside the car. Infotainment, heated steering wheel, nice cluster etc etc.

I think you'll enjoy the car.


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## JPinSTL (Jul 9, 2018)

firehawk618 said:


> There is no Ross Tech vag com equivalent.
> 
> You can't really "customize" modules as you could with the older VW / Audis. ya know, enabling things like rolling the windows up and down via fob etc etc.


I can live without VAG-COM I guess. I did not use it a bunch, but it was good for troubleshooting issues. 

So I guess the skid plate is not needed? No comments on that.

Anyway to get one touch window up at least on the drivers side? I also miss being able to hold the key all the way to the left/right in the door to roll the windows up or down. Was great for hot days or if the rain was coming. My car has keyless start and if the engine is off you can't put the windows up/down. Is there some accessory type position/setting I'm missing?

I have a 60 mile commute each way. My last 50 miles says avg of 49 when I get to the office. Thats 15% better than the VW. I've not done a hand calc yet so at least 10% better.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Accessory mode - touch the start button once with your foot OFF the brake pedal. Hold for "service mode" (like turning key to on, but not start). 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

JPinSTL said:


> I can live without VAG-COM I guess. I did not use it a bunch, but it was good for troubleshooting issues.
> 
> So I guess the skid plate is not needed? No comments on that.
> 
> ...


The 2nd gen is still relatively new but I have not come across a thread regarding broken oil pans on here yet.

One touch up on the driver window appears to be an OPTION! believe it or not and from what I can tell you could not get the diesel in the Premier trim which I am assuming comes with that.

I have already looked at retrofitting it and it will not be a simple switch the master control panel on the driver door. 

The window motor is also different between the two. I will likely retrofit this someday once some wrecked ones start showing up with that option so I can get the switch, door harness and motor out of a door.

I can roll the windows up or down with my car off as long as I haven't opened a door yet. This is typical of a lot of cars. When you park the car don't open the door right away. Roll your windows up first then open the door.

As someone else said you can also push the button once with your foot off the brake to turn on accessory mode then roll your windows up or down as needed.

I don't know if you have the upgraded cluster or if it even matters but my 450 mile average seems to be pretty close to what I hand calculate so far but I have not been consistent in how I'm filling the car. I am now going to fill it to the brim like I used to do with my MKIV Golf TDI.


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## Jondaytona (Apr 26, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> The chain is made to be a "lifetime" design. If GM did things right, it should be a 250-300k design, especially since the whole transmission has to come out to access.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


To add to that, a lot will have to do with oil changes. Keep up on them, some even change ahead of time regardless of the monitor. Don't stray from the recommended oil for your engine by going with cheaper stuff. 

I just looked at a co-worker's Audi A6, wouldn't run anymore. Same scenario, timing chain driven from the output side of the crank. The oil wasn't changed often enough and/or poor choice of oil throughout it's lifetime which lead to chain guide failure. This in turn allowed the timing to jump and the pistons interfered with the valves. Needed a motor swap, so he sold the car.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Jondaytona said:


> To add to that, a lot will have to do with oil changes. Keep up on them, some even change ahead of time regardless of the monitor. Don't stray from the recommended oil for your engine by going with cheaper stuff.
> 
> I just looked at a co-worker's Audi A6, wouldn't run anymore. Same scenario, timing chain driven from the output side of the crank. The oil wasn't changed often enough and/or poor choice of oil throughout it's lifetime which lead to chain guide failure. This in turn allowed the timing to jump and the pistons interfered with the valves. Needed a motor swap, so he sold the car.


Did it have the 4.2L V8? The previous V8 had a timing belt up front that, being a timing belt, eventually needed to be changed. So Audi decided to switch to a timing chain for the next generation. And since it "never needed to be changed", put it on the back of the engine, right up against the ******* firewall.

Guess what needed to be changed. 

A friend of mine had an S4 (B7) with the 4.2L, and it was nearing the interval for the never-needs-to-be-replaced timing chain to be replaced. Given this requires dropping the entire engine, he had no interest in doing it, and his cheapest option was actually the dealership (independent shops wanted even more), and that was $7k. So he sold the car and went back to his Saab roots with an Ice Blue AWD 9-3 Wagon with the Turbo V6 and a 6-speed manual (he previously has owned two 9-3 Viggens, prior to the Audi).


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## Jondaytona (Apr 26, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Did it have the 4.2L V8? The previous V8 had a timing belt up front that, being a timing belt, eventually needed to be changed. So Audi decided to switch to a timing chain for the next generation. And since it "never needed to be changed", put it on the back of the engine, right up against the ******* firewall.


I believe it was the 2006 A6, but it had the 3.2v6


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Probably was a similar setup, though. Almost impossible to replace in-car, and sounded like it was well past failure anyway.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

MP81 said:


> A friend of mine had an S4 (B7) with the 4.2L, and it was nearing the interval for the never-needs-to-be-replaced timing chain to be replaced. Given this requires dropping the entire engine, he had no interest in doing it, and his cheapest option was actually the dealership (independent shops wanted even more), and that was $7k.



Yup. My sister had that exact car and guess what. Timing chain failure. We caught it before any catastrophic damage. Pulled the engine out and did it.

Still set her back ~$2500 just in parts. Chain, guides, tensioners, gaskets etc etc.

That engine was something else to remove. I don't remember the fine details but either the A/C compressor or power steering pump ran off a little jack shaft that was driven off the BACK of the engine! All in all it was a royal pain to R&R the engine + the timing chain was another pain in the ass.

Total nightmare.

Also I would like to add this failure had nothing to do with oil changes. It's a known flaw in the system. A guide breaks and things just snowball from there.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

Got a chuckle from part of the title of this thread,"Swapped Teams"!


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## blackbird (Nov 6, 2017)

GM has had some trouble after they introduced the then-new "high feature" 3.6L DOHC V6 with premature timing chain and tensioning wear but I've heard there was finally a redesign and I don't think any of their other recent timing chain designs have any known tendencies for early wear.

I'll second the suggest to stay on top of oil changes and don't cheap out or try to push change intervals too far outside of warranty unless you're doing a quality oil analysis to verify you still have good protection. While timing chains on well maintained engines should have no problem going 200k+ miles, if you do need to change them it isn't as easy as most belt designs and this 1.6L with the timing chain on the rear of the engine could be a lot more work.


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## JPinSTL (Jul 9, 2018)

karmatourer said:


> Got a chuckle from part of the title of this thread,"Swapped Teams"!


It all depends on the context  The last Chevy I had prior to this was 25+yrs ago in high school. It was a '63 Chevy Bel Air 4dr 283 w/PowerGlide and was the best $250 I ever spent. I've had something from VW since then, either air-cooled or TDI. So I think this qualifies as "swapping teams" since the Golf was my last VW in the stable.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

JPinSTL said:


> It all depends on the context  The last Chevy I had prior to this was 25+yrs ago in high school. It was a '63 Chevy Bel Air 4dr 283 w/PowerGlide and was the best $250 I ever spent. I've had something from VW since then, either air-cooled or TDI. So I think this qualifies as "swapping teams" since the Golf was my last VW in the stable.


I had something completely different in mind!


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