# Trifecta Tune worth is?



## skatingrocker17 (Feb 3, 2012)

Are people getting better gas mileage with this or faster cars? Both would be great. We just got a Cruze LT2 with AT. I'm looking for some opinions from those who have done this.

Thanks


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

You get both power and fuel economy- When in Drive, you're in eco mode, and when in M (manual) you're in sport mode. You do not have to shift in sport mode, but can if you want. I personally saw an slight increase in highway mileage and a slightly higher increase in city mileage. If you use ethanol free fuel, you can see up to 58 MPG highway @ 50-60 mph in eco mode (drive). With the dual mode tune, your turbo pressure goes from 14 PSI (eco mode) to 22 PSI (sport mode). I saw an increase from ~116 whp to 146 whp in sport mode.


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

I have a LS with a 1.8 6M and as boats said I am also seeing a slight increase in MPG on the highway and in the city. I have not had a chance to go on any trips to see the MPG increase but the throttle response for me was night and day and for me it made my driving experience enjoyable again. From what I have read on this forum, you should see the same with the 1.4 Turbo. For the price it is definitely worth the money. My 2 cents worth.


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## bubby2411 (Sep 3, 2011)

As both of them have said the tune is amazing in so many different ways. Before the tune I was getting like 22 city mpg and after it I was getting 25+ i've been tuned for over 6,500 miles and it has been worth every penny I highly recommend it to everyone it is one of the best mods out there and for the price its amazing! If you have any other questions feel free to ask me ill help you with anything!


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

The passing power is worth it. There's nothing like dropping it into the sportier mode and nailing the gas for a pass. The power's there after a half-second for the turbo to spool. Passing on a 2-lane road with limited passing areas is quite effortless with the car in Sport mode. The drop it back into eco mode for the rest of the drive, and enjoy the MPG boost. Knowing the car has that little extra power in reserve for when it's needed is nice.


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## skatingrocker17 (Feb 3, 2012)

Sounds awesome guys thanks a lot. I think I'm going to order it after driving the car around for a little bit so I can get a good comparison on it too. Thanks.


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## 70x7 (Apr 24, 2011)

just a faster car here.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

Faster and better MPG. No noticeable change in highway MPG but hard to tell because it is winter. City MPG goes up because of more economical shifts. Worth every penny.


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

I meant wen I said you need to try ethanol free fuel. The tune requires 91 octane or above, but I could only find 87 in the ethanol free. Still got me to 58 MPG on a 150 mile trip doing about 50-60 the whole way! (44mpg if I used the sport mode on the same trip, just playing around on the highway)


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## skatingrocker17 (Feb 3, 2012)

So it's 350 + the 200 security deposit + shipping. It seems pretty expensive.


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## bubby2411 (Sep 3, 2011)

well it depends on a couple of things that can lower your price, one is where are you located? if you know anyone with a trifecta tactrix cable they can flash it for you insted of using the one they send you or if anyone on here that is near you can meet you somewhere to do it for you. or if nobody is around you that you know of just buy the cable so that if you ever have to use it to go back to stock for any reason or if you get more upgrades that need an update you can just use it whenever.


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

You get the security deposit back as soon as you return the cable and shipping should be minimal since the tune is delivered to you via the internet. Don't worry about it the difference you will see is well worth the cost!!!!!




skatingrocker17 said:


> So it's 350 + the 200 security deposit + shipping. It seems pretty expensive.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I see a lot of talk about shifts with the trifecta tune and the inherent benefits in fuel economy. Are there any such benefits in fuel economy with manual transmission cruzes? Has anyone actually tested the fuel economy difference on at least two full tanks of gas with and without the tune in similar weather conditions to see what the difference would be?

Also, it would appear that GM can tell when the PCM has been flashed. Is it safe to assume that your warranty will be entirely voided if GM ever finds out the car was flashed with a non-factory tune?


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## mzodarg (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm super happy with my tune. I drive my LTZ 95% of the city mileage in the M mode. Still getting 27 MPGs on average. 

Is trifecta still offering the the NON tracix cable? Might be an alternative.

Tre'


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Trifecta now sells their OWN cable, developed by Vince specifically for the tuning process. Your powertrain warranty is pretty much voided unless you're cool with your dealership (like me, lol). Thanks to the Magnausson/Moss Warranty Act of 1970, you cannot be turned away for service_ legally_ if the dealer cannot prove that your modification is the source of the problem.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I see a lot of talk about shifts with the trifecta tune and the inherent benefits in fuel economy. Are there any such benefits in fuel economy with manual transmission cruzes? Has anyone actually tested the fuel economy difference on at least two full tanks of gas with and without the tune in similar weather conditions to see what the difference would be?
> 
> Also, it would appear that GM can tell when the PCM has been flashed. Is it safe to assume that your warranty will be entirely voided if GM ever finds out the car was flashed with a non-factory tune?


No cats on my car, I rag the piss out of it.... 36.7mpg is where my average is at ... When I drive it nice it performs better on fuel economy than stock...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> No cats on my car, I rag the piss out of it.... 36.7mpg is where my average is at ... When I drive it nice it performs better on fuel economy than stock...


Do you suspect that the removal of the cat had something to do with that fuel economy? I've certainly heard that before from guys who have removed theirs.

I'm asking this because the tune plus the cable is pretty expensive over all. Its expensive enough to make me think I can probably just wait for HPTuners to figure out the PCM and I can tune it myself. I've tuned boosted motors before and its quite a blast. Wouldn't mind doing it again.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

Nope, it has stayed the same when it had cats and post cat removal... Different tune pre and post however....


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> Nope, it has stayed the same when it had cats and post cat removal... Different tune pre and post however....


Got it. I would imagine they probably advanced spark timing under cruising conditions to make a more efficient combustion.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

He didn't change much, had to modify waste gate control due to turbo spool so much sooner...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> He didn't change much, had to modify waste gate control due to turbo spool so much sooner...


So the need for 91+ octane fuel is solely due to increased compression from running higher boost levels? No modifications to the spark tables? Torque management? COT? PE?

At a bare minimum, I'd like to have my own tuner so I can tune the MAF tables.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

The base tune will be way diff.. I meant not much between no cats and cats.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

limited360 said:


> The base tune will be way diff.. I meant not much between no cats and cats.


Ah, I see. Makes more sense now, lol.


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## 4piecekit (Mar 17, 2011)

I was talking with Steve from ISM and he said, "Yes, the transperancy mode will put the tune into the .Bin directory of the computer that hides it from GM.." 

I have the 1.8 6MT and plan on getting this bad boy this spring.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Also, it would appear that GM can tell when the PCM has been flashed. Is it safe to assume that your warranty will be entirely voided if GM ever finds out the car was flashed with a non-factory tune?


Well the tune comes with the transparency mode and the original stock file. Transparency mode prevents the tune from "leaving a trail" so to speak when you flash it back to stock. Vince recommends doing this before you take it back to the dealer for any kind of service.

I personally don't think the dealers care if you bought it from a high volume dealer with a good reputation for customer service. I know my dealer is much more concerned about getting a satisfactory review and customer referrals than denying any kind of warranty work. They have already fixed some obscure problems for me without charge or question. With that being said, I flash it back to stock to be safe.

I know one dealer in Toronto that I follow on twitter actually tweeted me asking about the success of my performance mods, lol.

But legally, if the dealer detects you have a transmission tune they cannot deny you work unless they can prove your problem was a result of the tune. The times I've taken it in since the tune I flashed back to stock and on their report there was no indication that they are aware that my car was tuned.



XtremeRevolution said:


> So the need for 91+ octane fuel is solely due to increased compression from running higher boost levels?


Correct.


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## TKECruze (Oct 23, 2011)

lol ok so to be on the safe side, (sry i just want to make sure. plus i really want the extra speed and power from my cruze) as long as i flash my car back to the stock program. there will be no trail of it left. kinda like rebooting a jailbroken iPhone to its original software?


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Almost exactly like that, lol.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

TKECruze said:


> lol ok so to be on the safe side, (sry i just want to make sure. plus i really want the extra speed and power from my cruze) as long as i flash my car back to the stock program. there will be no trail of it left. kinda like rebooting a jailbroken iPhone to its original software?


I don't agree with boats... from what I am told by a few GM engineers (brother is one, plus a few others... I live ~3 miles from their proving grounds) other modules on the car are storing the CVN which will change when you reflash...

However unless they have a reason to dig and dig (catastrophic engine failure for example) I wouldn't worry....


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

For all intensive purposes, it is like that. However, limited is right. Usually they will not choose to dig and dig unless the can't find a cause for fault, in which case they will blame the tune whether it did anything to fault or not. One thing humans don't like is looking stupid because they can't figure something out. There's always something to blame.


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## thevoid (Aug 1, 2011)

boats4life said:


> For all intensive purposes, it is like that. However, limited is right. Usually they will not choose to dig and dig unless the can't find a cause for fault, in which case they will blame the tune whether it did anything to fault or not. One thing humans don't like is looking stupid because they can't figure something out. There's always something to blame.


*Intents and purposes. *
Doesnt it make better sense that way?

From what I understand, when you use transparency mode, it does not change the info in the other control modules. At least that is what the Trifecta software wants us to believe.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

thevoid said:


> *Intents and purposes. *
> Doesnt it make better sense that way?
> 
> From what I understand, when you use transparency mode, it does not change the info in the other control modules. At least that is what the Trifecta software wants us to believe.


CVN = Calibration Verification Number.... This number is created based on the HEX values of the overall calibration, if the cal is different, the CVN is different... unless Trifecta has beaten that with the transparency option (only way I flash my car just in case it works)... however this is almost always a hard coded feature in the software.


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

thevoid said:


> *Intents and purposes. *
> Doesnt it make better sense that way?


You got the point, stay on topic.


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

LOL all this warranty talk. I think the tune is probably helping the transmission more than hurting it if you have an automatic. No more hanging out around the redline and no more crazy indecisive shifts. Shift firmness is good. Everything seems to be in better shape since I got the tune


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

ErikBEggs said:


> LOL all this warranty talk. I think the tune is probably helping the transmission more than hurting it if you have an automatic. No more hanging out around the redline and no more crazy indecisive shifts. Shift firmness is good. Everything seems to be in better shape since I got the tune


For us, yes, this is certainly a good thing, but for GM, its about the almighty dollar, and if they can determine that you have a non-factory tune, you could end up voiding any powertrain warranty even if the part failed at absolutely no fault of the tune.

It is more than likely that your car will be more problem free with the tune, however, so the value of keeping that warranty is questionable.


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## TKECruze (Oct 23, 2011)

mmmhhh. i guess its up to the owner of the car and whether he/she wants to take the risk. ill speak to my cousin. he's the GM of the dealership that i got my car from. lol I'm sure he wouldn't be completely against me getting it. anyone have any idea how much it is to get the tune plus actually buying the cable from trifecta. (i tried looking for it on the website but couldn't find it)

nvrmind. i found it. its $200


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> For us, yes, this is certainly a good thing, but for GM, its about the almighty dollar, and if they can determine that you have a non-factory tune, you could end up voiding any powertrain warranty even if the part failed at absolutely no fault of the tune.
> 
> It is more than likely that your car will be more problem free with the tune, however, so the value of keeping that warranty is questionable.


I dont take the risk and I flash it back to stock.. but I *expect* the engine components to go 100,000 miles *knock on wood* anyway


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

ErikBEggs said:


> I dont take the risk and I flash it back to stock.. but I *expect* the engine components to go 100,000 miles *knock on wood* anyway



FYI... engine is an emissions related component... covered to 120,000 miles by law... No OEM wants you to know that...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

ErikBEggs said:


> I dont take the risk and I flash it back to stock.. but I *expect* the engine components to go 100,000 miles *knock on wood* anyway


That's not what I was referring to. My understanding is that they can tell when the engine's PCM has been flashed and how many times it has been flashed. If you happen to have a powertrain issue and the PCM registers a re-flash one day prior, a few eyebrows will be raised.


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> That's not what I was referring to. My understanding is that they can tell when the engine's PCM has been flashed and how many times it has been flashed. If you happen to have a powertrain issue and the PCM registers a re-flash one day prior, a few eyebrows will be raised.



+1... you are correct. 2012 has even more detection baked into the other modules...


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

limited360 said:


> +1... you are correct. 2012 has even more detection baked into the other modules...


The trifecta tune does not leave a trace when flashing as it does not log a reflash on the master log file

Please do some more research guys, join the Trifecta facebook, contact Vince, or look at the posts by credible people here who know how it works


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

I do agree that its not a reflash as its way to quick to download a changed cal from Vince...

Does it modify the calibration? Hence the CVN has to change...

Supposedly other modules in 2012 such as the BCM log max intake manifold pressure... ( from the mouth of a GM engineer)


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

If you have a cruze with no cruise switch how do you switch the tune on and off? I'm confused about this. MT


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## limited360 (May 6, 2011)

Currently you don't I believe...


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## unitednations161 (Mar 13, 2011)

so we can't get it or its just always tuned?


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## tecollins1 (Nov 6, 2011)

You can get it but it will stay tuned 24/7, you will have to go through the whole process of uninstalling it to go back to stock. We have already asked if there was a way to use the traction control to switch it on/off or adding a sport button/switch but was told it could not be done.
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5305


Sent from iPhone 4


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## Arrow (Mar 15, 2011)

After I installed the tune the car ran shitty! It is a 2011 1.4 turbo AT. When accelerating through 20 mph the tach would jump between 2000 and 2500 rpm. The wife kept asking me why I was doing that but it wasn't me! Sent datalogs to vince at trifecta and he said nothing was wrong and maybe it was my expectations that was wrong. So if expecting it to not surge up and down while accelerating is wrong I guess I am!! Highway milage was no better with the tune so the extra price of high octane was not worth it. Took the tune out and car runs fine! Expensive lesson!
.4


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## gregeshleman (Jan 6, 2011)

I have the tune also and mine surges when the engine is cold and most of the surging is gone when warm. I'm also thinking about taking the tune out, I'm also not seeing any MPG improvement in Eco mode. Getting about 26-28 mpg mostly highway.


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


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## ErikBEggs (Aug 20, 2011)

gregeshleman said:


> I have the tune also and mine surges when the engine is cold and most of the surging is gone when warm. I'm also thinking about taking the tune out, I'm also not seeing any MPG improvement in Eco mode. Getting about 26-28 mpg mostly highway.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


26-28 MPG on the highway with the tune means... SLOW DOWN. You are clearly driving 80+ mph. Don't bad mouth the tune because none of Vince's other customers have an issue with worse fuel economy.



Arrow said:


> After I installed the tune the car ran shitty! It is a 2011 1.4 turbo AT. When accelerating through 20 mph the tach would jump between 2000 and 2500 rpm. The wife kept asking me why I was doing that but it wasn't me! Sent datalogs to vince at trifecta and he said nothing was wrong and maybe it was my expectations that was wrong. So if expecting it to not surge up and down while accelerating is wrong I guess I am!! Highway milage was no better with the tune so the extra price of high octane was not worth it. Took the tune out and car runs fine! Expensive lesson!
> .4


It is jumping though 2000-2500 RPMs because it is shifting gears and in the eco mode it usually shifts in that range. The 3-4-5 gears are very close and are in that range. I find it extremely hard to believe the car runs better without the tune because I have the same transmission as you and *everyone* with the 2011 agrees that the stock calibration is horrible. 

Everyone's opinion is different, but if you paid for the tune already I encourage you to try to work with Vince he is all about customer service. Also, he is coming out with the new versions in the tune that can run on any octane.


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## gregeshleman (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm not trying to bad mouth the tune, and I'm not driving 80 mph, I usually drive anywhere from 55-60 mph. So no I don't need to slow down.


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Like I said on Facebook, I'm seeing this too sometimes, but I figured it was rough idle from my Injen or the turbo not liking cold weather... I honestly don't think its the tune, but maybe the transmission itself. Cold fluid, could be freezing? Not enough circulation until the engine/Trans warm up?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AutoGuide.com App


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

boats4life said:


> Like I said on Facebook, I'm seeing this too sometimes, but I figured it was rough idle from my Injen or the turbo not liking cold weather... I honestly don't think its the tune, but maybe the transmission itself. Cold fluid, could be freezing? Not enough circulation until the engine/Trans warm up?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AutoGuide.com App


Continue the conversation on FB. 

Also Boats, your issue is b/c of the injen


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

gregeshleman said:


> I'm not trying to bad mouth the tune, and I'm not driving 80 mph, I usually drive anywhere from 55-60 mph. So no I don't need to slow down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app


If you're only getting 26-28mpg at those speeds something is seriously wrong, you should be seeing 40-45mpg.


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## gregeshleman (Jan 6, 2011)

Vince looked at the data logs and said they were ok; I was getting 30-31 without the tune. Hopefully it gets better when it gets warmer out


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Maybe you just have a random gremlin in your system, mileage-wise...

EDIT: Oh, and HAHAHA shawn, very funny. (make me jealous...)


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## Vegas_RS (Apr 2, 2011)

gregeshleman said:


> Vince looked at the data logs and said they were ok; I was getting 30-31 without the tune. Hopefully it gets better when it gets warmer out




I just recieved the same response.. I havent been on here in a long while and finding im not the only one with same/worse fuel economy with the tune and the horrible surging issue.


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