# Diesel Deletes



## Brower28 (Dec 14, 2014)

Has anyone had any luck with any emissions systems getting deleted? Does anyone know of a shop that can do it?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Don't do it. At one time emissions systems did cause a lot of issues with drivability but modern emissions systems are designed into the power plant from inception. Deleting them won't help drivability and may cause other issues with the car.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

obermd said:


> Don't do it. At one time emissions systems did cause a lot of issues with drivability but modern emissions systems are designed into the power plant from inception. Deleting them won't help drivability and may cause other issues with the car.


your real opinion or your opinion based on modship and the corporate overlords at GM?

cuz a delete causes zero drivability causes

just causes pollution and cooler running motor.

its not legal, but drives betterer


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

boraz said:


> its not legal, but drives betterer


depending on your state. In W.V. you can delete them.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

Though that is my understanding it could possibly only apply to non diesel engines


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

My opinion based on watching what has happened since the 70s. When emissions control systems were first forced on US car manufacturers they caused a lot of problems. Now, unless there is a failure in the system, they don't. I also know that deleting emissions related systems can do odd things to the exhaust back pressure depending on what is deleted.

As for legality - it is illegal under FMVSS (Federal) to knowingly eliminate this system. Individual states may not care, but as long as the car is sold in more than one state the Federal law takes precedence via the Commerce Clause in the Constitution.


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

If post 100k, I'm staring a $1500-$3000 emissions repair, and I have to choose between that and a few hundred to purchase software for a delete, I know which one I will choose as long as I'm not living in an inspection state.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Also..a delete could make secondary use as a swap into other vehicles to repower a viable, vs, impossible option.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

obermd said:


> My opinion based on watching what has happened since the 70s. When emissions control systems were first forced on US car manufacturers they caused a lot of problems. Now, unless there is a failure in the system, they don't. I also know that deleting emissions related systems can do odd things to the exhaust back pressure depending on what is deleted.
> 
> As for legality - it is illegal under FMVSS (Federal) to knowingly eliminate this system. Individual states may not care, but as long as the car is sold in more than one state the Federal law takes precedence via the Commerce Clause in the Constitution.


when the emissions system on the diesel cruze is working properly, its running exhaust back thru the motor and dumping fuel into the dpf

when the emissions system falls apart, it will be very tough for the avg joe to diagnose/repair....so will be expensive

a dozen or so sensors, associated wiring and modules all are potential weak links, and likely no aftermarket, so dealer pricing, yay.

the proper delete creates the correct backpressure, engine will run cleaner, cooler...the exhaust will absolutely be dirtier.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

obermd said:


> My opinion based on watching what has happened since the 70s. When emissions control systems were first forced on US car manufacturers they caused a lot of problems. Now, unless there is a failure in the system, they don't. I also know that deleting emissions related systems can do odd things to the exhaust back pressure depending on what is deleted.
> 
> As for legality - it is illegal under FMVSS (Federal) to knowingly eliminate this system. Individual states may not care, but as long as the car is sold in more than one state the Federal law takes precedence via the Commerce Clause in the Constitution.


I know that in MD if you prove that you spent at least 500 or 750 on attempts to repair your exhaust you become exempt I dont know if that is a trinkle down from federal or just a state thing.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

obermd said:


> Don't do it. At one time emissions systems did cause a lot of issues with drivability but modern emissions systems are designed into the power plant from inception. Deleting them won't help drivability and may cause other issues with the car.


Seems like most problems have been EGR/DPF/DEF related for the cruze diesel.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Not to mention....BETTER MILEAGE once the emissions components are removed. It blows my mind that we'd sacrifice a non-renewable resource such as oil for cleaner exhaust. The current common-rail diesels are nothing like the indirect injection motors of yesterday.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Good luck with that. I tried hard to delete the mess but failed. The ECU is password protected in boot mode now so tuners are the mouse in the cat and mouse game. If you find a tuner you think you can trust you will have to send him your ECU then try it and find out what codes it is still throwing and send it back a few more times until hopefully he gets it right without bricking your ECU. Even if you are successful you will have at least $1000 into the project and for that money you could buy a new DPF and run your car for another 100,000 plus miles. Not to mention what do you do to sell the car ? pay to put it back to stock or find someone who appreciates your efforts. There is just not enough interest in the car for tuners to invest the time. They are busy with the pick up trucks. Sadly I gave up on it. Its just not cost effective. If it is going to be done it will be done at the ECU. You are not going to plug a magic box into the OBDII port.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I am still trying to figure why in the hellllll anyone would want to do an emission delete on this car. There seems to be no upside to it. Like 50++ mpg isn't enough? You're not going to make a race car out of an emissions delete. It won't magically unleash 100 hp. Plus, if you ever go to sell the car, who in their right kind would want a complicated emission car made even more complex by someone who just possibly roached an ECU in an effort to delete the emission controls for some odd reason. It's kind of like dating Kate Upton then asking her to get a boob reduction. Make no sense.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Why? Wait until your DPF dies outside of warranty.....price one.

I've got three cars I'd LOVE to retrofit one of these engines into....but with the emissions setup its impossible. And even WITHOUT the emissions equip it would be far cleaner and more economical than whats in them now.


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## smallheadz (May 11, 2014)

Rolling smoke says they are working on it , no ETA. Another member on here sent his ECM to this place Vauxhall Insignia CDTI DPF removal Diesel Particulate Filter removal
At the time they could not get past the password to remap but they claim they have since bypassed the password and can remap our ECM's. Yes I am aware this is a European company and our ECM's our different here is there quote "
Vauxhall Opel EDC17CP47 EDC17C59 covered
All models under vauxhall, opel , chevrolet make fitted with ecus EDC17CP47 and EDC17C59 we can read , write ecu, perform ecu remap without any problems."
Ours have E47 from all the research I have done. The member on here that found out all this info has since sold his diesel from all the emission problems and I believe he bought a eco gas cruze


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

MOTO13 said:


> I am still trying to figure why in the hellllll anyone would want to do an emission delete on this car. There seems to be no upside to it. Like 50++ mpg isn't enough? You're not going to make a race car out of an emissions delete. It won't magically unleash 100 hp. Plus, if you ever go to sell the car, who in their right kind would want a complicated emission car made even more complex by someone who just possibly roached an ECU in an effort to delete the emission controls for some odd reason. It's kind of like dating Kate Upton then asking her to get a boob reduction. Make no sense.


From personal experience, if you free up the exhaust on a diesel, it really wakes it up. So if you free up the exhaust and can provide a larger intake as well, you will see a major difference in performance. That is why some want to free up the exhaust by deleting the emissions.

I know it is an older modle and can't compare to what is out there today, but when I had my 91 Jetta TD, it ran well, but once I opened up the exhaust from the 1.25" to a 2.5" pipe from the turbo back, my boost psi went from 9 to 12. I was then able to adjust my turbo and get 15psi boost out of it. Diesels love to breath, it is the easiest mod you can make to improve on performance. Opening up the exhaust will also lower your EGT's. Just stating this is why some want to delete the emissions and open up the exhaust. 

I would bet that if you could do it with out ECU issues, you would see a nice improvement in performance and better mpg as well. That is if you could stay out of the throttle from all the fun.


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## Dvan5693 (Jul 8, 2014)

Remove it, tune it and love the MPG and HP


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Dvan5693 said:


> Remove it, tune it and love the MPG and HP


Something far easier said than done.


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## chris10 (Oct 22, 2014)

MOTO13 said:


> It's kind of like dating Kate Upton then asking her to get a boob reduction.


Sorry for the offtopic.....but this is about the most retarded thing I have ever heard of..... And spot on when you say makes no freakin sense. 

Carry on.........(quietly searching for Upton pics to purge that image statement out of my head)


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## Diesel Dan (May 18, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> I am still trying to figure why in the hellllll anyone would want to do an emission delete on this car. There seems to be no upside to it.


I would love to put a 2.0L TD into my old S-Blazer!
Emission delete would make the install much easier and still run cleaner than a original Isuzu Diesel used in the early 80s.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

smallheadz said:


> Rolling smoke says they are working on it , no ETA. Another member on here sent his ECM to this place Vauxhall Insignia CDTI DPF removal Diesel Particulate Filter removal
> At the time they could not get past the password to remap but they claim they have since bypassed the password and can remap our ECM's. Yes I am aware this is a European company and our ECM's our different here is there quote "
> Vauxhall Opel EDC17CP47 EDC17C59 covered
> All models under vauxhall, opel , chevrolet make fitted with ecus EDC17CP47 and EDC17C59 we can read , write ecu, perform ecu remap without any problems."
> Ours have E47 from all the research I have done. The member on here that found out all this info has since sold his diesel from all the emission problems and I believe he bought a eco gas cruze


Yep, Thats me. I still lurk here because I still miss my diesel even with all the emission headaches it gave me. 

For me the reason for wanting to delete the exhaust system was not for performance or coal rolling. It was purely for reliability. Simple is better. I bought the car because I make frequent trips from NJ to VA. You don't have to get the countdown to death message more than once to start losing confidence in the system. This exhaust system is just too complex to be reliable. It either needs to be deleted or it needs to incorporate redundant systems like aircraft do. This would obviously double the cost but I would much rather get a message like "DEF quality poor, System 1 of 2" than "DEF quality poor 100 miles until you are dead in the water" 

I would love to check this forum someday and see pictures of a diesel cruze with a straight pipe from the turbo back, driving down the road with no CEL. I think Peter at P and P auto could do it if someone wanted to spend the time and money. It will take trial and error. I sent my ECM to him in England and he tried and he sent it to Italy and they tried but at the time they couldnt crack it. Peter has since texted me to say they can do it but its too late for me as I sold the car. Anyone can PM me if they want to go down the path. I will lead you down as far as I got and then you are on your own. Best of luck.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

I dont understand why its so easy to delete a LML but the cruze you have to send your brains to Europe??? Hopefully by the time my warranty is up it will be easy to make my cruze sound like a jet airplane.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

The emissions system isn't always unreliable. I have gone 120K miles with only one sensor going out that did not affect drivability. The only other issue I had (at 118K miles) was a "DPF Full" issue that was caused by several starts and stops while it was trying to do a regen. In fact, I think I am going to create a thread on this.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

magnusson said:


> I dont understand why its so easy to delete a LML but the cruze you have to send your brains to Europe??? Hopefully by the time my warranty is up it will be easy to make my cruze sound like a jet airplane.


Its just economics. I called Motor Age in Canada. They do the Duramax deletes because its illegal in the states. I begged him to have a look at my car. He said its just not worth it. It would take him countless hours and he would never recoup his investment. Over in the UK it is profitable because the diesels are so much more common however the DEF system is new over there too so they have to figure that out. The vauxhaul has the same engine but no DEF system.


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## AWJustus22 (Feb 19, 2015)

+1 on any emissions tampering making resale to either a dealer or private party either impossible or at least complicated. 
Also, some people on this thread are saying that deleting emissions equipment (I'm assuming they mean DPF and EGR) is beneficial, that it causes the engine to run cooler, get better fuel economy, and make more power. Assuming (dangerously) that these advocates actually have removed their emissions equipment, can they produce any data showing consistently better fuel economy over several tanks and/or better performance as measured by 1/4 mile times or 0-60 acceleration? I'm curious as to why nobody has brought forward any data on removing emissions equipment despite the healthy advocacy for it. 

Disclaimer: I would not modify the emissions equipment on my CTD purely for environmental reasons and a general desire not to roll coal, even if by accident.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

AWJustus22 said:


> ...
> Disclaimer: I would not modify the emissions equipment on my CTD purely for environmental reasons and a general desire not to roll coal, even if by accident.


I just hope the idiots who do this keep to their own country, I don't want the crap from their vehicles polluting the air my daughter breathes.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

grs1961 said:


> I just hope the idiots who do this keep to their own country, I don't want the crap from their vehicles polluting the air my daughter breathes.


The cars in your country don't even have a DEF system so the cars in your country are putting out more pollution than the cars in my country. If that's your concern you should stop driving your car for your daughters sake.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

Scott M. said:


> The cars in your country don't even have a DEF system so the cars in your country are putting out more pollution than the cars in my country. If that's your concern you should stop driving your car for your daughters sake.


Partly true, some passenger vehicles don't have DEF systems, but all diesel vehicles in Oz sold since 2006 have to meet Euro 4 standards, which a DPF does. Euro 5 was partially required by 2013, and is fully required for 2016.

But this thread is not about vehicles which meet Euro 4 or 5 standards, it is about removing the DPF/DEF and so on - creating a vehicle which does not even meet Euro 1 requirements for particle emissions, spewing out the sort of black soot that the emissions system is designed to reduce.

If you want to choke your children with fumes and soot, go ahead, just keep it away from me and mine.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Next week my boss will use over 10,000 gallons of jet fuel just to get himself and nobody else from New York to Australia on his corporate jet. Plus another 10,000 plus gallons to get back. So I am not the least bit worried about the carbon foot print of a little Chevy Cruze going down the road without a DPF when there are thousands of jets flying 40,000 feet above my head converting fuel to carbon at a rate I will never see in a lifetime. These emission regulations are like a spider web. Stops the fly but lets the horse pass right through. Governments are not serious about a clean environment. They just want to make money off it.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

People that question the benefits of successfully removing the current emissions system on our diesel engines clearly know jack squat about diesel engine. PERIOD! 

Go to an asphalt plant and watch truck after truck spray their truck beds and tailgates down with diesel fuel every single load. Yeah, I'm not worried about my clean running modern common rail CTD and pollution....


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

diesel said:


> The emissions system isn't always unreliable. I have gone 120K miles with only one sensor going out that did not affect drivability. The only other issue I had (at 118K miles) was a "DPF Full" issue that was caused by several starts and stops while it was trying to do a regen. In fact, I think I am going to create a thread on this.


Thats not bad but its not really good either. We should expect new cars to go well over 100,000 miles without ever having to go to the dealer. My previous envoy, grand am, sunbird, silverado, S10, Have all done that without a peep.


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## Dvan5693 (Jul 8, 2014)

Scott M. said:


> The cars in your country don't even have a DEF system so the cars in your country are putting out more pollution than the cars in my country. If that's your concern you should stop driving your car for your daughters sake.


Lmao, you should get one of these for your daughter when she goes outside! - http://www.amazon.com/Bubble-Soccer...id=1433862743&sr=8-1&keywords=personal+bubble


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

"Partly true, some passenger vehicles don't have DEF systems, but all diesel vehicles in Oz sold since 2006 have to meet Euro 4 standards, which a DPF does. Euro 5 was partially required by 2013, and is fully required for 2016.

But this thread is not about vehicles which meet Euro 4 or 5 standards, it is about removing the DPF/DEF and so on - creating a vehicle which does not even meet Euro 1 requirements for particle emissions, spewing out the sort of black soot that the emissions system is designed to reduce.

If you want to choke your children with fumes and soot, go ahead, just keep it away from me and mine."





All Hail King Obama


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Brower28 said:


> Has anyone had any luck with any emissions systems getting deleted? Does anyone know of a shop that can do it?


been itchin to tell you guys this but needed to check with fleece to see if it was ok.
Fleece performance has managed to get in the cruze diesel ecm an delete dpf egr an scr an I seen an went for a ride in it. it made mine feel like was
sitting still, was told 310 hp an 350 lbs of torque with bigger turbo an injectors. no eng light an averaged 40 mph.
anyone needing to know more contact them direct.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

oilburner said:


> been itchin to tell you guys this but needed to check with fleece to see if it was ok.
> Fleece performance has managed to get in the cruze diesel ecm an delete dpf egr an scr an I seen an went for a ride in it. it made mine feel like was
> sitting still, was told 310 hp an 350 lbs of torque with bigger turbo an injectors. no eng light an averaged 40 mph.
> anyone needing to know more contact them direct.


wow. I guess Christmas really can come early. Id be in for just an across the board delete for reliability and the ability to run full saps hddeo as well. Oh not to mention economy increases. I wonder if the cost would even be reasonable like vw's.

i have no interest in more power then stock components can provide.


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## Brower28 (Dec 14, 2014)

KpaxFAQ said:


> oilburner said:
> 
> 
> > been itchin to tell you guys this but needed to check with fleece to see if it was ok.
> ...


I completely agree with you


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

oilburner said:


> been itchin to tell you guys this but needed to check with fleece to see if it was ok.
> Fleece performance has managed to get in the cruze diesel ecm an delete dpf egr an scr an I seen an went for a ride in it. it made mine feel like was
> sitting still, was told 310 hp an 350 lbs of torque with bigger turbo an injectors. no eng light an averaged 40 mph.
> anyone needing to know more contact them direct.


Thats great news. If they are a US company they may not be willing to sell it to people. Sending the ECM to a company out of the country is a way around that. Its great to hear that it has been done though.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

just talked to Devin at Fleece an they did consider a delete kit for the diesel cruze but because of EPA laws they decided against it. plus the fact that its a very small market. the only reason they talk about it is there are no regulations for this in Indiana. so I guess we are out of luck or you have deep pockets an can convince them, after all money talks. 

but they did prove it can be done an I seen it an went for a ride in it.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Interesting, yeah no emissions on diesel vehicles in PA either


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## JWishnok (Dec 15, 2012)

No emissions on any vehicles in crawford county PA 

Find a reliable diesel tuning shop and ask them to come up with an exhaust for you, Exhaust will give you that extra little bit that you are probably looking for.


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## operator (Jan 2, 2015)

no emission in florida


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

JWishnok said:


> No emissions on any vehicles in crawford county PA
> 
> Find a reliable diesel tuning shop and ask them to come up with an exhaust for you, Exhaust will give you that extra little bit that you are probably looking for.


Hey neighbor! I bought my CTD from community chevy down there in Crawford County!


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