# CDT Test Drive



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

volts are that cheap there?

here a volt is 42k, cdt 29k....tax break was 7k so 35k vs 29k (cars optioned similar)


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## hulkss (Jan 30, 2014)

obermd said:


> The CDT definitely has more torque and noticeably better acceleration.


148 vs 280 ft-lbs torque are the specs. I'm glad you were able to notice the difference.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

boraz said:


> volts are that cheap there?
> 
> here a volt is 42k, cdt 29k....tax break was 7k so 35k vs 29k (cars optioned similar)


They're trying to unload them right now. Too many cars on the dealers lot. So yes, there was a new, not used, Volt on the lot that was equipped comparably to the CDT I drove that was only about $8,000 more than the CDT.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

hulkss said:


> 148 vs 280 ft-lbs torque are the specs. I'm glad you were able to notice the difference.


When I test drive I drive it like I stole it. How else am I to know what the car can do in an emergency?


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

I regret not driving a gas Cruze before I bought the diesel. Not because I think I would have liked it more just so I had an idea of how different the tow cars are. Nice honest review, if everybody loved the same car we would not have the choices we do.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I drove a 1LT for three days last spring so I know how the gas automatics drive. The single biggest killer for me on the CDT was the lack of a manual transmission so if I were to be looking between the LTZ and the CDT I would go with the CDT without hesitation.


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

It will be interesting to see what Chevy does with the CTD. Will they give more options like a MT or a base level model or just keep it how it is. I can't imagine they would ignore the number of people looking for a MT in a diesel car. It would be nice to see the numbers of automatics vs. MT's sold in the Jetta.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

DieselMan33 said:


> It will be interesting to see what Chevy does with the CTD. Will they give more options like a MT or a base level model or just keep it how it is. I can't imagine they would ignore the number of people looking for a MT in a diesel car. It would be nice to see the numbers of automatics vs. MT's sold in the Jetta.


They sell more autos...period. The tdiclub crowd enthusiast type is a small percentage of the 100,000 diesel vehicles sold by vw in north america last year. 

MT drivers make up an even smaller nitche then diesel drivers. The only reason the eco has it is a cheap solution for fuel economy. Current auto transmission technology is advancing and in some cases more efficient then manuals. Look at the new mazdas....

An auto will never quench an enthusiasts desire, but is just fine for a daily driver. Maybe I'm lucky but Ive had nothing but rock solid reliability from my autos and I didnt even do anything to them.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> They sell more autos...period. The tdiclub crowd enthusiast type is a small percentage of the 100,000 diesel vehicles sold by vw in north america last year.
> 
> MT drivers make up an even smaller nitche then diesel drivers. The only reason the eco has it is a cheap solution for fuel economy. Current auto transmission technology is advancing and in some cases more efficient then manuals. Look at the new mazdas....
> 
> An auto will never quench an enthusiasts desire, but is just fine for a daily driver. Maybe I'm lucky but Ive had nothing but rock solid reliability from my autos and I didnt even do anything to them.


Just another factor to think about too....How many dudes might buy a MT but don't because their wife won't have it or won't be able to drive the car? I fall into that category. I can smell the cluch burning up already if I did 

Also, in an emergency or if her car is in the shop I want her to be able to hop in and go.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

A turbocharged engine coupled to a automatic transmission lets the turbo stay spooled instead of dumping off boost on every shift. 

If I had my old job, I'd have looked hard at a CTD. Except diesel is $4.19/gallon compared to premium unleaded at $3.59/gallon, so the economics do not work out for me.


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

It would all come down to how much more would it cost GM to offer a MT in the diesel vs. the sales. Since they already offer a MT in a Cruze I can't see it costing much more to throw a MT in there.


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## Epickphale (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes but the transmission itself is different in the TD than in the LT and LS models. It's not as simple as dropping in a trans from the other models and all is good. Regardless, 2015 or 2016 was slated to add an MT to the CTD options list... lets see if they make good on this one


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## MotleyCruze (Nov 17, 2013)

I'm interested to hear where it was said the 2015 or 2016 would be offered with an MT. If so, I'm waiting.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

The bottom line is money like everything else. If they think there is money to be made they'll do it. If they think it will just appeal to a fraction of buyers screaming for it they don't care.


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## Zenturi (Jan 25, 2014)

Since the Cruze redesign was pushed off to 2016 model year, expect 2015 to be a warm-over. A few color changes, some minor content adjustment between trims. That's about all.

People have been asking for a manual in the "SS" ever since it was unveiled. It's confirmed that next year won't have it, either. With that line of reasoning from GM, I don't see it happening on the CDT. Hold out hope for 2016...


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I can't comment on the steering weight as my car has hydraulic power steering and it is just right for me. The SS has no excuse for not having a manual as both "Holden" and "HSV" have them on both the 6.0L and 6.2L engines and HSV have a manual GTS model with the supercharged LSA engine. Auto or automatic are both OK by me so the diesel auto is fine and as people have already said, the wife only drives auto. Biggest thing I miss from my previous manual Commodore is the RWD, it just feels better.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I like the heavier steering in the diesel vs. the gas. It makes the car much more communicative. To me, steering feel is an important factor in how much I enjoy driving a car. My friend has a 2013 LT and I don't like the steering feel at all. The CTD has a whole different driving dynamic.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

Zenturi said:


> Since the Cruze redesign was pushed off to 2016 model year, expect 2015 to be a warm-over. A few color changes, some minor content adjustment between trims. That's about all.
> 
> People have been asking for a manual in the "SS" ever since it was unveiled. It's confirmed that next year won't have it, either. With that line of reasoning from GM, I don't see it happening on the CDT. Hold out hope for 2016...


Agreed. The 2015 CTD will likely have little to no substantive changes since it will be the last model year of the 1st gen Cruze in North America.

Looking forward, I wouldn't hold my breath on a manual diesel. Sure, there seem to be fair number of holdouts waiting for a MT CTD, but even if it increased the sales of the CDT 50%, which I feel is unlikely, would it be worth it? It would have to be yet another transmission completely unique to the Cruze lineup to handle the diesel's power for likely a couple hundred cars a month at most. Then again, I'm not a market expert, so maybe I'm wrong, which would be nice. As much as I wanted a MT diesel, I still would likely have gotten the auto since my wife drives it more than I do, and she really does not want a manual.

As far as the steering, I noticed the tighter steering vs. the gas model, but it really isn't too bothersome to me. I only seem to notice it in town and when it is really cold for some reason.

On a side note, does anyone know the sales breakdown of MT vs. AT TDIs?


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

PanJet said:


> On a side note, does anyone know the sales breakdown of MT vs. AT TDIs?


Recently, I am sure there are more automatics than diesels sold, someone posted it when we had this same discussion on TDIClub, maybe even in the Cruze diesel thread. We have this argument all of the time, it's almost as much fun as an oil thread. I've heard from the VW techs that there are a lot of "new" diesel buyers in the VW world now and to be blunt, most don't know any better. They have been driving automatics in their gas cars so they get automatics in their diesels. 

All you have to do to know which one is typically seen as "better" by a normal diesel head is see how long automatic TDI's last on Craigslist. You can measure it in weeks, sometimes months. Manual transmission TDI's go in hours or a few days if the price is remotely rational and the car has any service history at all. Especially, the earlier VE pump versions. 

I look at the HP and torque on tap in the CTD compared to what is in my TDIs and can only dream about what that would be like in a manual transmission. I completely understand if someone enjoys the convenience of having an automatic but I'd hold off saying it's not a valuable option for GM to make a manual available. They've got a manual transmission somewhere in the global market for this platform to go with this engine. Our company car in Germany is an Opel wagon with what should be the same engine and a manual transmission. The EU is mostly diesel manuals in all kinds of odd marriages, I saw a Chrysler TD minivan with a 5 speed manual. 

All I'm saying is that to really take advantage of the economy and power offered by a diesel, connect it to a manual transmission. It's the same with Dodge Cummins trucks and TDI's, driving the automatic version is a poor imitation of the manual. 

With the current power and torque of the CTD, I'm sure it's fine with an automatic, but if they release a manual, there will be some people who will want to trade in the automatic. I really believe it will be that much better with a manual. Every other diesel vehicle I've ever driven has been that way.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

888 said:


> All I'm saying is that to really take advantage of the economy and power offered by a diesel, connect it to a manual transmission. It's the same with Dodge Cummins trucks and TDI's, driving the automatic version is a poor imitation of the manual.
> 
> With the current power and torque of the CTD, I'm sure it's fine with an automatic, but if they release a manual, there will be some people who will want to trade in the automatic. I really believe it will be that much better with a manual. Every other diesel vehicle I've ever driven has been that way.


Yeah, I hear ya. Like I said, if it were just me, I'd love a manual, but with my wife being the primary driver plus the fact that I don't care enough to not buy the car without a MT, I'm fine with the auto, especially since it's a good auto.

Come to think of it, I haven't driven a MT diesel vehicle (aside from a semi-truck on the farm) in probably close to 15 years. Back on the farm the last manual pickup we had was a 1995 Chevy 3/4 ton with the 6.5L diesel. When the Dmax came out, at first it was offered in both manual and with the Allison auto, which was 5-speed at that time. When we traded to the Dmax, we sprung for the Allison and it was amazing in every way. Since then we had two more Dmax trucks all with Allisons and nary an issue with any of them despite pulling loads way in excess of the load rating. I can't tell you how many clutches we burned out on the MT 6.5L diesel, but then again, that engine was lacking in low-end grunt. The Allisons turned out so good that GM quit offering the MT Dmax sometime in the mid-2000s. For the few who really wanted them, they were(are) worth their weight in gold if you can find one.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

That is interesting what PanJet says about towing, Holden recommends using the automatic if you are going to tow with the Commodore. I would think that to tow with a manual diesel truck you would need a 2 speed diff to save the clutch, if you could get one to fit?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

PanJet said:


> Yeah, I hear ya. Like I said, if it were just me, I'd love a manual, but with my wife being the primary driver plus the fact that I don't care enough to not buy the car without a MT, I'm fine with the auto, especially since it's a good auto.
> 
> Come to think of it, I haven't driven a MT diesel vehicle (aside from a semi-truck on the farm) in probably close to 15 years. Back on the farm the last manual pickup we had was a 1995 Chevy 3/4 ton with the 6.5L diesel. When the Dmax came out, at first it was offered in both manual and with the Allison auto, which was 5-speed at that time. When we traded to the Dmax, we sprung for the Allison and it was amazing in every way. Since then we had two more Dmax trucks all with Allisons and nary an issue with any of them despite pulling loads way in excess of the load rating. I can't tell you how many clutches we burned out on the MT 6.5L diesel, but then again, that engine was lacking in low-end grunt. The Allisons turned out so good that GM quit offering the MT Dmax sometime in the mid-2000s. For the few who really wanted them, they were(are) worth their weight in gold if you can find one.


we have 3 crew cab 1t longbox duramax at work

all 3 have new engines, transmissions, front diffs and at least 1 tsfr case between the 3


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## DrKlahn (Feb 10, 2014)

Unfortunately the manual transmission seems to be becoming more and more of niche. I replaced my '07 Cobalt SS 5spd with the Cruze diesel. Apart from the obvious mileage difference a big part of getting rid of the Cobalt after only a few years was the 5spd manual. My wife just never got used to it. So anytime her car wasn't available the only option was to take out the G8. Which isn't a big deal in the summer, but in the winter here it's just not a good option. That and anytime the cars needed to be moved around, she couldn't do it.

Another thing I am noticing is that young drivers aren't being taught on a manual and they have no desire to learn. So while I love driving a stick I'm not sure the business case is there for one in the Cruze TD.

Last year I hit a deer in the Cobalt and was given a Cruze as a rental car (an LT I think). Since I'm used to driving cars with heavier steering (G8, C5, and the departed Cobalt SS) the Cruze TD feels better than the gas counterpart I drove in this department. The brakes are also better in the TD. Otherwise I'm very pleased with how solid this little car is to drive. My only complaints is the auto can be a bit wonky at low speeds in the extreme cold. Seems fine once the car warms up or the temps are above 10* F.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

DrKlahn said:


> Unfortunately the manual transmission seems to be becoming more and more of niche. I replaced my '07 Cobalt SS 5spd with the Cruze diesel. Apart from the obvious mileage difference a big part of getting rid of the Cobalt after only a few years was the 5spd manual. My wife just never got used to it. So anytime her car wasn't available the only option was to take out the G8. Which isn't a big deal in the summer, but in the winter here it's just not a good option. That and anytime the cars needed to be moved around, she couldn't do it.
> 
> Another thing I am noticing is that young drivers aren't being taught on a manual and they have no desire to learn. So while I love driving a stick I'm not sure the business case is there for one in the Cruze TD.
> 
> Last year I hit a deer in the Cobalt and was given a Cruze as a rental car (an LT I think). Since I'm used to driving cars with heavier steering (G8, C5, and the departed Cobalt SS) the Cruze TD feels better than the gas counterpart I drove in this department. The brakes are also better in the TD. Otherwise I'm very pleased with how solid this little car is to drive. My only complaints is the auto can be a bit wonky at low speeds in the extreme cold. Seems fine once the car warms up or the temps are above 10* F.


Welcome and congrats on the new Cruze diesel!

The "wonky" shifting in the low range of the auto is a common compliant of the AT Cruze, not just the diesel. Before I had my diesel I had an '11 Cruze with the AT, and it was terrible compared to the diesel. Stop and go traffic was the worst. They improved it a lot in subsequent years, however.

These new "learning" transmissions are supposed to adjust their shift patterns as it learns how you drive. Many drivers report that they get smoother with more miles on them. Compared to my '11, the diesel was butter smooth from day one.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

DrKlahn said:


> Unfortunately the manual transmission seems to be becoming more and more of niche. I replaced my '07 Cobalt SS 5spd with the Cruze diesel. Apart from the obvious mileage difference a big part of getting rid of the Cobalt after only a few years was the 5spd manual. My wife just never got used to it. So anytime her car wasn't available the only option was to take out the G8. Which isn't a big deal in the summer, but in the winter here it's just not a good option. That and anytime the cars needed to be moved around, she couldn't do it.
> 
> Another thing I am noticing is that young drivers aren't being taught on a manual and they have no desire to learn. So while I love driving a stick I'm not sure the business case is there for one in the Cruze TD.
> 
> Last year I hit a deer in the Cobalt and was given a Cruze as a rental car (an LT I think). Since I'm used to driving cars with heavier steering (G8, C5, and the departed Cobalt SS) the Cruze TD feels better than the gas counterpart I drove in this department. The brakes are also better in the TD. Otherwise I'm very pleased with how solid this little car is to drive. My only complaints is the auto can be a bit wonky at low speeds in the extreme cold. Seems fine once the car warms up or the temps are above 10* F.


Welcome to the forum and congrats on your TD. I have owned 3 SRT-4s and was always curious about the Cobalt SS, but never drove one.


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## 888 (Jan 14, 2014)

Aussie said:


> That is interesting what PanJet says about towing, Holden recommends using the automatic if you are going to tow with the Commodore. I would think that to tow with a manual diesel truck you would need a 2 speed diff to save the clutch, if you could get one to fit?


I think it depends on what you plan on towing. I had a 92 Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton truck with a Getrag 5 speed manual and a granny first gear. I hauled huge loads of firewood in that truck (I heat my house 100% with wood) and I had no issues with it. I did install an uprated South Bend clutch in it early on but when I pulled the OEM at 225k it wasn't bad at all. I did hear of problems with the Getrag 5 speed but it was something to do with 5th gear mechanically separating from the shaft rather than something due to load. 

When you start talking really heavy loads, I think that's possibly a different situation with regards to the transmission. 

I sold the 92 Cummins recently and bought a 93 extended cab version of the same truck that is a one ton dually automatic. I really didn't want the automatic but there are so few of these around that I made the huge compromise of living with the **** automatic to get the dually and the extended cab. This truck was set up to pull heavy horse trailers around so it has helper springs and a huge tranny cooler. I suspect that the automatic might be better because of the amount of slip and give the automatic can provide versus that mechanical gear on gear force in a 5 speed manual. But we're talking a loaded horse trailer at 12k lbs versus a ton of wood. And I still may swap out the automatic for a Getrag 5 speed if I find a donor truck cheap enough. 

I honestly don't think it matters on the Cruze or most FWD unibody cars because that car shouldn't see enough load to make a difference in which transmission is installed. GM isn't going to put a tow rating on an economy car that is beyond the range of whatever transmissions they install. It's going to be a pretty beefy tranny that can deal with the torque of the CTD anyway.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

888 said:


> I think it depends on what you plan on towing. I had a 92 Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton truck with a Getrag 5 speed manual and a granny first gear. I hauled huge loads of firewood in that truck (I heat my house 100% with wood) and I had no issues with it. I did install an uprated South Bend clutch in it early on but when I pulled the OEM at 225k it wasn't bad at all. I did hear of problems with the Getrag 5 speed but it was something to do with 5th gear mechanically separating from the shaft rather than something due to load.
> 
> When you start talking really heavy loads, I think that's possibly a different situation with regards to the transmission.
> 
> ...


neighbor has 92 cummins manual, bought new, now has 300,000 miles/....he's on his 7th transmission...all warranty


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

DrKlahn said:


> Another thing I am noticing is that young drivers aren't being taught on a manual and they have no desire to learn. So while I love driving a stick I'm not sure the business case is there for one in the Cruze TD.


In NSW Australia, when you get a drivers licence, unless you do the test in a manual you are only licensed to drive an automatic. Even if you have been driving for a while and you want a manual you have to do another driving test to drive manual. This law came in about 5 years ago, before that you were barred from a manual for the first 12 months only.


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## Garandman (Dec 31, 2013)

DieselMan33 said:


> It will be interesting to see what Chevy does with the CTD. Will they give more options like a MT or a base level model or just keep it how it is. I can't imagine they would ignore the number of people looking for a MT in a diesel car. It would be nice to see the numbers of automatics vs. MT's sold in the Jetta.


Adding drive train options is a significant expense to auto manufacturers and they are going away as most people don't buy them. Less than 10% of all cars sold in the US have manuals.

I have a car - Subaru WRX - that is sold _only_ as a manual and in 2015 they are offering a performance oriented CVT as an option.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Garandman said:


> Adding drive train options is a significant expense to auto manufacturers and they are going away as most people don't buy them. Less than 10% of all cars sold in the US have manuals.
> 
> I have a car - Subaru WRX - that is sold _only_ as a manual and in 2015 they are offering a performance oriented CVT as an option.


Wow. That...sounds terrible. An auto might not have been terrible, but CVT? Eww. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

obermd said:


> Steering felt a lot heavier. The car is heavier than my ECO MT but it's not as heavy as my Montana AWD was and the CDT felt as heavy as the Montana.


Especially after reading your comment here, I've noticed this more, and I will admit, I prefer the steering calibration on my gas Cruze to this one. It's just too heavy in town; not enough to make me dislike the car, but they could have done better. It just feels slightly less nimble than the gas Cruze because of it.

Ironically, on the highway it's _almost_ too light.


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