# Surging while stopped?



## MetallicaMatt (Mar 26, 2012)

Has anyone else noticed a surging while stopped? The past 2 days I happened to catch the light in town on my way to work. No a/c on or anything, just foot on the brake, but the car is trying to lurch forward. I know it's supposed to go into neutral when the brake is applied, it almost seems like it's trying to but keeps engaging/disengaging?

Anyone else notice this?


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

One way to heck that would be to shift the transmission into neutral to see if it goes away.


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## MetallicaMatt (Mar 26, 2012)

I have, when in neutral, the surging goes away. There would be no other reason for the car trying to surge forward.

The only conclusion I've come to is that the car is still idling high since I'm at the beginning of my drive...either way, it's a bit annoying


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## bbdhomer (Jun 20, 2012)

yup, happens to me... i was wondering what that was..

ill be going to the dealership about this... im betting since it cant be replicated that easily they might give me the run-around... i usually get these after a long highway drive and especially when the car is facing downhill.. (at a light, stopped on a downhill) 

let us know what you find out and ill give an update if i do (unless someone else already knows wtf this is about!!!!)


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## MetallicaMatt (Mar 26, 2012)

I thought the same thing, the dealer will need to be able to replicate it, and since it only happens under certain conditions, I'm not going to drop off my car so they can play with it, while I get a stupid rental or sit around in the waiting area.


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

I guess that you are just going to live with it, then. My hunch is that since the problem goes away when the transmission in manually shifted into neutral, the problem lies with the function of the transmission shifting into neutral automatically when the car is stopped. It appears that it keeps shifting in and out of neutral during the stop which can cause the surging you are experiencing. Not only an annoyance, but it could mean there are other problems as well that need to be addressed.


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## bubby2411 (Sep 3, 2011)

Mine did the exact same thing the other day. I got home turned off the car then turned it back on and it stopped for now... Next time it did it I'll hopefully get to log the data it is doing and see if anything is off


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I can't contribute anything to this discussion since I drive a manual transmission, but I would highly recommend that everyone who has this issue contact GM customer support to have a case put in. The more calls they get about it, the more likely they are to look into a fix, if there isn't already one available in way of a re-programming.


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## sheleb1 (Sep 16, 2011)

Through my experience with driving both the 2011 LT Auto (which I own) and the 2012 model, the 2011 has a much more pronounced lurch/surge when engaging Drive or Reverse when not fully up to operating temp yet. Until the engine has warmed up, it doesn't seem that the trans. is shifting into neutral at a stop either, and you have to be hard on the brake to keep the car stationary.
Maybe uneven brake peddle pressure is causing the engaging / disengageing feeling?


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## bubby2411 (Sep 3, 2011)

If it does it again I will probably have a local guy look at it rather than taking it to a dealer which is pointless and a waste of time. I have had nothing but bad experiences from GM service and would much rather go local anyway..


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

I would suggest if you are experiencing this issue that you do contact your dealer and have them look into this for you. I would also like you to keep me posted on the progress with your dealer. I am always here and happy to help in any way that I can so please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have. 
Thank you,
Stacy Chevrolet Customer Service


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## socalcruze (Aug 4, 2012)

I've experienced this a few times, and only when the engine is cold (on less than 5 minutes) on cooler mornings. I'm going to wait and see if this becomes more pronounced in cooler temps (if they ever arrive here...), probably mention it to the dealer when I'm in for the first oil change.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

bubby2411 said:


> If it does it again I will probably have a local guy look at it rather than taking it to a dealer which is pointless and a waste of time. I have had nothing but bad experiences from GM service and would much rather go local anyway..


Try a different dealership. GM doesn't own their dealerships and there are unfortunately a lot of bad ones out there. Any CruzeTalk members in the DC and Frederick, MD area have recommendations for a good dealership for bubby?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Does that local guy have access to the GM web site and all that generation 3 diagnostic equipment? Tried my OBD II scanner with power steering problems and couldn't even read the codes. But the plug fit. With USB problems, dealer had to open a box with all the new stuff inside, was with the mechanic when he read the instructions.

Could be something like a little water in the gas, causing a misfire, engine under load will miss and the computer will over compensate. Could be the entire transaxle has to be replaced or the computer reflashed. Could your local guy get these parts under warranty? Assuming you still have the warranty.

Do have a couple of Chevy dealers in my nexk of the woods that aren't very good with service, giving you some weird story like dey all do dat. Doesn't mean that is right. But you do not have to go to the dealer you purchase your Cruze from. Find a better one.

Three of my vehicle's are pre-OBD I, can do anything I want with those, all in excellent condition, and more than likely three years from now, will still have them. Unless drastic things are done with the Cruze, like aftermarket diagnostics, more than likely will trade it in.

Even OBD II is bad, in 2001 the surpreme court in California made a law where all these esoteric firmware codes has to be made available to the country. Yeah, at a price of $1,500 per vehicle for a one year long subscription. No way am I going to pay that, plus the extra equipment like over $5,000.00 to reflash that ram. Did get my dealer to agree to reflash the ram for 80 bucks on an OBD II vehicle.

I don't like this, is my car, or is it?


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

I experience it as well and it's when the car is still cold. If you try to modulate the brake pedal easy, it will surge.


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## cruzers (Dec 13, 2010)

I think this is normal, it's to help the engine warm up faster. When the temperature gauge is showing more than half warmed up, the car begins going into neutral again at a stop. Being that it's a small motor it'll shake and vibrate until it's warmed up.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

My 1.4 L runs as smooth as glass when cold idling at around 1,400 rpm, then tapers down to the 600 range when warm. If modulating the brake pedal causes surging, sound like a vacuum leak. Fuel injection is backwards than a carb, leaks in a carb causes roughness, injection, the engine will speed up with a leak.

Had cruise control for over 40 years and could always feel the gas pedal go down when going up a steep hill. Cruze cruise control gas pedal doesn't do anything, the computer is controlling the engine speed and does this for all functions, including idle speeds. So can just as easily be electronic problems.

Love flashram in my digital camera or MP3 player, hate it in my car. Mainly because I can change or correct the former, can't do it with the latter. Well can if I want to break my bank account.


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

This would be my first posting, and I wanted to contribute some information with a diagnosis with my vehicle surging while I am at a stop light. It’s best described as feeling like somebody’s rocking the front end of the car. I purchased my 2012 Cruze LT earlier this spring. I’ve been less and less impressed with the car, which has mostly been discussed here; primarily the recalls that have been issued to this vehicle, and how GM “fixed” the problem.

In the past couple of months as the temperatures have been cooling off, I noticed that the car would shake intermittently after being stopped for a minute when I was at a red light. It would shake, and then stop. At first I thought it was the wind. Then I noticed that there wasn’t any wind. I brought it to the attention of my dealership when I scheduled an oil change, and it was shrugged off, could not duplicate. The following day, it happened again, and I pressed the OnStar button as it was happening. No problems found, transferred to customer care, which was a waste of time. I spoke with my dealership again, and this time we made arrangements to leave my car for a few days. I was contacted to tell me of a known issue with GM that when the transmission fluid is cold, the clutch packs grab, and release, which causes the car to shake. There is a solution in the works, and that I should expect to have my car fixed in 1-4 months, whenever the parts are available. The transmission will need to be dropped to have some work done on it. I’m told that it’s alright to drive the car with this problem.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

mitch - welcome to Cruzetalk and thanks for the update on this issue. Sounds like you have an excellent dealership.


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## thaicruze (Jul 21, 2011)

MetallicaMatt said:


> I have, when in neutral, the surging goes away. There would be no other reason for the car trying to surge forward.
> 
> The only conclusion I've come to is that the car is still idling high since I'm at the beginning of my drive...either way, it's a bit annoying


Couldn't this cause an accident?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Practically all low displacement engines FI engines have some kind of idle control system due to various engine loads, like shifting into gear with an AT, power steering loads, additional electrical loads put on the alternator, hydro boost loads, AC being on all off, etc. All have some kind of sensor that feeds the power train computer, to inform it of these loads.

My 454 doesn't have any, switch on that huge York compressor, really doesn't care whether its on or off. It has lots of spare power. These smaller engines even advertising 150 HP or more, can only output around 5 HP at idle. Without idle speed control, switch on the AC, the engine would kill on these smaller engines.

Some kind of device is used to automatically advance the throttle, can also be emulated with a very careful foot on the accelerator. My 92 DeVille was really archaic, used a servo multiphase driven motor with a rod to actually advance the vane in the throttle valve. Most use some kind of a TB air bypass valve solenoid controlled by the PCM. All can give problems with surging, sticky vane in the throttle valve or carbon buildup in the idle control bypass valve binding it. In any servo type system, everything has got to operate smoothly.

Not even sure what my Cruze is using, but since it has a servo driven fly by wire type motor, can assume they are getting double use out of that. Suppose I could study it, generally don't until I have problems with it. Bypass valves also suffer from both how the EGR and PCV are recirculated into the engine. Haven't studied that in the Cruze either, heck, its under warranty. These loop systems can really caused carbon and binding problems based on other vehicles.

What generally tells this idle control system to start working is the throttle position sensor, a potentiometer mounted on the throttle vane on the throttle body. If that isn't adjusted properly or making poor wiping contact, engine will surge like crazy.

So can have sticky vane problems, carbon buildup problems, mis-adjustment problems, electrical problems, contaminated code problems stored in flashram and even sensor problems feeding the status of the various load devices.

I can understand why they want to shift the transmission in neutral while stopped, that torque converter is still engaged, still pumping fluid and really gets hot. I also have AT vehicles, at long red traffic lights, just shift it into neutral myself without this feature. But the question can be asked, is your AT the victim of idle speed control surging, or is it the culprit by erroneously engaging into gear? More electronic control by a microcontroller fed by firmware stored in flashram.

Your dealer has access with a WiFi device directly connected to all the resources at GM, local guys don't have this option, and neither do I. Its a very complicated systems. They designed it and should have the knowhow.

When torque converter lockup first came out, was problems with the torque converter locking up while at idle, and with a very powerful engine, so-called accidents occur, car would leap forward and kill somebody. But they did save gas when functioning properly. The more complicated the system, the more problems you can have, key reason why I had to special order my Cruze with a manual transmission. Least I have some control over my vehicle and not dependent on some silly-con diode for that. 

See your dealer, if he gives you static, time to put him out of business.


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## blesak (Nov 17, 2012)

thanks for all the information guys


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

I received my copy of the repair order today. From the looks of things, the solution to the problem with my car is new clutch packs. Here's the report:


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

I had taken my car in again in December after being in contact with General Motors to voice my concerns about the nature of the previous diagnosis. Allegedly, the diagnosis for my Cruze, which has the accurate VIN on the diagnostic report, was allegedly for a different model year, and vehicle. I had taken my Cruze in for further diagnosis, and went for a ride with the technician, and the concern was duplicated, though it was not surging as bad or long as it had been. I watched the live data with the technician, and there was no information to indicate a malfunction, or what the issue may be. My Cruze was driven for one week, and the concern was allegedly not duplicated again. I questioned both the service manager, and the General Motors person managing my case with regards to the prior diagnosis, which does indicate that the problem was once duplicated, and yet there will be no further action taken. The concern is apparently “minute and sporadic”. Yet my car shakes at stop lights intermittently for no reason. The answer is “hopefully it will get worse”. Unless the computer indicates any kind of a problem, the issue will remain unresolved. I’m very disappointed both with General Motors and my dealership. The report which I recently received does not even list the surging which occurred on the drive I went on with the technician. This experience, and the ultimate outcome, will undoubtedly influence the next model which I will purchase.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

Sometimes I have surges when sitting still with the clutch in (no a/c). RPM's will drop to 500 then, as if I pressed the pedal, will surge to 900. It continues to do this until I start moving again. Doesn't always happen. I just pretend I have a roots under the hood and thats why it's surging


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

MetallicaMatt said:


> Has anyone else noticed a surging while stopped? The past 2 days I happened to catch the light in town on my way to work. No a/c on or anything, just foot on the brake, but the car is trying to lurch forward. I know it's supposed to go into neutral when the brake is applied, it almost seems like it's trying to but keeps engaging/disengaging?
> 
> Anyone else notice this?


If you're at a traffic light and you take your foot even slightly off of the brake, the car will lurch forward slightly. That's the car going out of neutral and into drive. I notice this quite a bit. That's one of the reasons I don't like this feature. But there's really no surging. Do you see the RPM's going up and down when you're sitting at a light? That would be surging and that's something I never experience. If your car is doing this, I wouldn't be surprised if you see a check engine light go on. Could be a sensor problem with the idle speed control.


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

I am pleased to report that my Cruze has been in for repairs! After logging the time and temperatures for a few months, of the surging incidents, I have found that in my case that the surging occurs in damp or rainy conditions at temperatures 40-45 degrees Fahrenheit. As Spring came around, the surging returned and occurred much more frequently. After inquiring with my selling dealership, who completed the initial diagnosis, http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ch...ging-while-stopped-post141734.html#post141734, and http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ch...ging-while-stopped-post143467.html#post143467, it was suggested to me that I could seek a second opinion on the matter, in case if another dealership has had the same problem with a Cruze at their location. I'm told that my Cruze was the only one they had sold to me with the surging concern.

The new dealership I inquired with had dug a bit deeper than my selling dealership, and offered further assistance with the concern. I reported my findings, and the car was kept for a day and taken on a road test with myself, and on the following day. The weather conditions were not ideal for the surging to occur. The Cruze was returned to me. After having the car for a few weeks, I was contacted by the dealership, and told that the problem is related to the transmission idle neutral feature, which engages at a stop, and does not have a sensor. I was told that there is no mention of this feature in the owner's manual. According to my research, this feature disengages the torque converter in order to reduce fuel consumption. They were authorized to complete a transmission repair per a service bulletin, which I have further details about it below. I was not able to see the car when it was being repaired, and was shown the old parts when I picked it up. They were two rings approximately 12 inches in diameter, with teeth in the center, and a rubber material with swirls on the surface on the outter surface, both sides, of the rings. I have been driving the car for a week now with no issues but I believe that the true test will be this Fall when the surging first occurred.

I should mention that I had also been in contact with General Motors during the process as well, but I didn’t get the impression that they really wanted to help resolve the problem.

Service bulletin details, which I was advised of:
Service Bulletin: PI0928 (NHTSA ID 10052020)

"Some customers may comment on a bump feeling, surge, or engine vibration, while stopped at idle with the transmission in drive, and the foot on the brake. This condition may be caused by the transmission neutral idle feature. When this concern occurs, move the transmission shift lever to the manual position. Moving the transmission shift lever to the manual position will prevent the neutral idle feature from functioning. If the concern is eliminated by moving the transmission shift lever to the manual position, it is caused by the neutral idle feature, in variation in the one featured for the clutch fiber plate. The 1-2-3-4 clutch fiber plate should be replaced with the part number listed below. Here is a kit which contains two clutch fiber plates."

Repair order:


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

I forgot to mention that there are other vehicles effected by PI0928:
2013 Buick Encore, 2012-2013 Cruze, 2012-2013 Sonic, equipped with 1.4 L engine with 60/40 transmission with MH8 RPO code, built before January 1st, 2013.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Well, good for you......I guess enouph of them developed the problem for G.M. to home in on it.
Since I don't see the concern come up with any frequency it is likely a very small percentage of the total displaying this behavior.

After you get some miles on the repair, please give a update.

Rob


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## SotoStyley (May 30, 2013)

Im experiencing the same issue, now i just need to get the time to go because of my work schedule my wife has been taking the vehicle in. The two dealerships she has taken it to have both been giving her the run around. One is because the car doesnt have a check engine light on and isnt throwing any codes on their computers when they "check"


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## montess1 (Oct 13, 2012)

Looks like the tranny will have to come out to do the repair on the clutches and other parts to fix this issue.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

SotoStyley said:


> Im experiencing the same issue, now i just need to get the time to go because of my work schedule my wife has been taking the vehicle in. The two dealerships she has taken it to have both been giving her the run around. One is because the car doesnt have a check engine light on and isnt throwing any codes on their computers when they "check"


If there ever was ONE weakness that new age mechanics have developed, it is forgetting that under all that electronic bullshit there lives a conventional engine and transmission.
So, the customer gets this continual 'no code stored' answer.....in this case, because there is no code to store.
This is a hard part failure that will only show itself under very specific circumstances and the operator of the vehicle really cannot correctly describe whats going on.
For example.....To a mechanic, surging means the engine idle speed is rising/falling/rising at idle......so, the tech. looks for surging.....will not be able to reproduce because.............it is not actually surging as a mechanic knows 'surge'.

Here's what somehow needs to change.
Currently the vehicle operator speaks to a service advisor.......who takes the customers information regarding the concern, and translates it into something he/she can put on the repair order.........this may or may not be acurrate.
So, for starters, YOU the operator, must take a minute and read the repair order the writer generated.
If it at least looks like what you said, you have half a chance at a successful repair.
Insist, if this concern is the type of thing you even think may be difficult for the mechanic to reproduce, that you take someone for a road test and show them the sequence reguired to replicate the concern.

If you are not willing to take a active role in assisting a mechanic to achieve resolution of a problem, then frankly, don't even take the car in.
Live with it......because if you won't take the time, you're gonna live with it anyways.....only now you'll tell everyone the mechanic sucks, the shop sucks, Chevy sucks, G.M. sucks.....yada yada.

Seriously though....when a strange concern crops up, make every effort to be a participant in the repair.....even if you have to force yourself on the repairshop.
Worst thing that'll happen is it gets fixed the first time.

Rob


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hello Sotostyley

Please let me know if I can be of assistance to you. I am available to call your dealer or find you a new dealer more willing to look into this if you need me to. Send me a PM and I can assist you!

Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

Well folks, after 650 miles, my car has surged once. I would have to conclude that the service bulletin has not addressed the concern, and the cycle continues. I'll call my dealership as soon as they're open, and will post further details about any repairs that take place.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

As this thread continues, I've tried to replicate the feeling described on my own 12 eco.

I found that I can make mine do it IF.....while stopped at a light, I can keep the car from rolling with very light brake pedal pressure.......I believe this is because of the auto going into a partial nuetral, as designed.
But, there is a point just prior to brake pedal pressure release, I can make the trans engage/disengage/engage......and this would be described as a surge or a feeling as though someone behind me lightly bumped me.

The PCM is making the 'partial nuetral' decision based on throttle position, wheel speed, and brake application.
It appears the two circuits involved with brake application are the primary influence that can cause this 'bump in the back' feeling.
They are both in the brake switch.....one specific to the third brake light, the other, specific to the main brake lights.
If I have the car backed up in my driveway, close to my white garage door, in low or no ambient light (nightime works well) I can watch the light reflection off the door with the rearview.
If I am very light on the pedal, there is a point, pressure still applied but just short of release, where I can make the third brake lamp illuminate independent of the main brake lights.......this is the moment the PCM commands a re-engagement of the trans and the 'bump' is felt.

So, although in rare circumstances it could be construed the switch has a problem internally, I'm currently thinking the operator may be causing the concern by minimizing pedal pressure while stopped......a natural reaction to the car not needing much pedal to remain stopped.

To those feeling this 'bump' try to maintain a firmer pedal pressure while stopped and report if the concern continues.

Rob


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hello mitch_cruze

Sorry you are having an issue with your car surging. I see that you took your car to the dealership. Please feel free to keep me updated and let me know by private message if you need any assistance.

Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Maybe this has already been mentioned but on my automatic I have noticed this only occurs when the car is on high idle when cold out & engine not warmed fully. Driven many automatic cars that will lurch forward when you ease off the brake so to me this is normal behavior. 

I'm guessing since when fully warm and not on high idle it does not behave this way people are thinking something is wrong. I actually liked the not being in neutral at stop signs!


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm sorry to report that unless the computer provides any kind of codes, there will be no repairs made to my Cruze. This is coming from GM's "Top Care". I am on the waiting to have a vehicle data recorder installed at my servicing dealership. I have my doubts that anything will be found as snap shots had been taken at my selling dealership while the car was surging, sent to the dealership Technical Assistance Center, nothing was seen, and it was suggested that there could be Product Information bulletin coming out in a few months http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/9-ch...ging-while-stopped-post143467.html#post143467. I'll post further details as they come.


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

I am starting to have the same issue with surging when idle with brakes applied. I also see the RPM vary up and down by about 100 rpm as if the car is trying to shift into neutral and back to D and back to neutral. I have a 2013 LT with A/T 6000 miles. One other issue I noticed: I was stopped at a light going on a small hill. While in D, the car goes backwards because it shifts in neutral when idle. I put it in Manual Gear 1 and it was still going backwards. This doesn't make sense. Thank you for any feedback.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

gt_cristian said:


> I am starting to have the same issue with surging when idle with brakes applied. I also see the RPM vary up and down by about 100 rpm as if the car is trying to shift into neutral and back to D and back to neutral. I have a 2013 LT with A/T 6000 miles. One other issue I noticed: I was stopped at a light going on a small hill. While in D, the car goes backwards because it shifts in neutral when idle. I put it in Manual Gear 1 and it was still going backwards. This doesn't make sense. Thank you for any feedback.


I apologize you are experiencing a surging at idle issue when brakes are applied, gt_cristian. I recommend bringing your vehicle into your dealership for a diagnosis. I am more than happy to assist throughout this process. Please contact us via private message and include your full contact information and VIN. We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Laura M. (assisting Jackie)
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Another possible cause of surging is water in the gas. Sure had been predominate in the Central Wisconsin area with three times the normal rainfall this last summer. Over 4,000 gas stations have been reported with water in the gas. If this surging started shortly after you filled the tank, could well be your problem.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

gt_cristian said:


> I put it in Manual Gear 1 and it was still going backwards. This doesn't make sense. Thank you for any feedback.


Big hill? Stall speed of the torque converter. I think the AT stays engaged when you're in manual mode rather than dropping to neutral.


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Big hill? Stall speed of the torque converter. I think the AT stays engaged when you're in manual mode rather than dropping to neutral.


30-40 degrees incline. The AT goes into neutral when idle but why it the car going backwards while in 1st gear (manual mode)? I remember my 2011 would no go backwards on an incline when in manual mode but I might be wrong.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

gt_cristian said:


> 30-40 degrees incline. The AT goes into neutral when idle but why it the car going backwards while in 1st gear (manual mode)? I remember my 2011 would no go backwards on an incline when in manual mode but I might be wrong.


Too big a hill will cause even an in-gear auto to roll backwards when the hill is bigger than the power at idle being put through the transmission. 

My old Camry was seriously annoying to park on a big hill near a friends house as it would roll forwards in reverse. There was nothing wrong with the transmission; it just had a low idle RPM and pretty high stall speed on the torque converter. On big hills, I learned to left foot brake with it. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## MyCruze13 (Nov 5, 2013)

What gas stations are the cause for this??? I have had some surging problems also, but my Cruze is an automatic. It's not all the time and I have tried to keep notice when getting gas, but nothing yet. Also, I am having some problems with what could be someone siphoning my gas?? It has happened twice now in a few weeks. Nothing makes sense really either way. I know GM doesn't have a locking gas cap for these models, but any other ideas??!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MyCruze13 said:


> What gas stations are the cause for this??? I have had some surging problems also, but my Cruze is an automatic. It's not all the time and I have tried to keep notice when getting gas, but nothing yet. Also, I am having some problems with what could be someone siphoning my gas?? It has happened twice now in a few weeks. Nothing makes sense really either way. I know GM doesn't have a locking gas cap for these models, but any other ideas??!
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


Low traffic or off-brand no-name stations may have water in the fuel more often than those that get a tanker truck on a pretty frequent schedule.

But there's no one brand or name to avoid because this will happen nation-wide. It varies by location. For instance, Shell is usually highly regarded, but I got bad Shell gas at a station in VA Beach.

The more important factor for the surging - what OCTANE are you using? If 87, try 89/93, and it'll probably behave better. Surging is present even in the automatics with 87 oct, especially in hot weather.


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## WhiteAndBright (Mar 4, 2013)

Hey guys I might have some feedback in this.. Sorry if it has been mentioned as I only read the first page of the thread.. On Sunday night I was having a really bad surge while sitting still at a stoplight like the car was wanting to move forward while my foot was on the brake that was pushed all the way to the floor. It did it on Monday morning also, well when I got to work I pulled it strait into service and they looked over everything and my pcv valve had failed.. Maybe there is a connection.. Just a thought..


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Yep, when the PCV seal fails the whole car goes nuts.
Vacuum drops so the brakes become less effective, the pedal gets harder, the computer is going insane trying to adjust for a large vacuum leak......a book full of codes start to pop up.

At least it's an easy diagnosis.....you can hear it hissing.

Rob


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## WhiteAndBright (Mar 4, 2013)

Robby said:


> Yep, when the PCV seal fails the whole car goes nuts.
> Vacuum drops so the brakes become less effective, the pedal gets harder, the computer is going insane trying to adjust for a large vacuum leak......a book full of codes start to pop up.
> 
> At least it's an easy diagnosis.....you can hear it hissing.
> ...


You aren't kidding about the car going crazy. I would start it in the garage and it would idle really high like normal then when it would come down about 20-30 sec after starting that's when it would take on a mind of its own.. It would drop down to about 490rpm (per ultra gauge) then back up to anywhere as high as 900rpm.. If you pop the hood while it is running stand in the middle of the front of the car and lean over the motor with your head at the firewall you can hear it hissing on the top of the intake manifold.. But I did notice that every single thing that these guys are describing happened to me while sitting at a stop light I would ease off the brake and it would "surge" and if I pushed back down on the brake hard it would stop.. Thought maybe that there could be something going on with the pcv valve causing a decrease in vacuum causing the brakes to surge.. might be something to look in to..


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Had you pulled the spark plug beauty cover off you can look at the failed area.
Cover off, straight to the rear is a round cover glued onto/into the valve cover, about the diameter of the oil fill cap.

The seal fails and it sucks vacuum at the failpoint somewhere around the edge of the hole.....you can put your finger against the leak point, sealing it, and it calms down immediatly.
Lift your finger away and it goes nuts.

Rob


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hello All, 

If you are having this concern and would like your dealership to look into this concern, please do not hesitate to reach out to me via private message. Please be sure to include your name, VIN, phone number, and dealership. 

Erica Tiffany
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## chechem84 (Mar 12, 2013)

I had the same issue, thought i t was going to stall as well. It was the battery cable. It's a known issue. If its bad it will cause issues with the PCM. My car wouldnt start one day and I had constant surging issues. After the replacement they all went away. It's not a "recall" but a bulletin.


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## chechem84 (Mar 12, 2013)

If you dont want the dealer to do it just pick up some new cables at the parts store.


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## Northerncruzer (Nov 7, 2013)

Lovin my 2013 Cruze but just recently have started having issues with it surging while stopped at a light with brake applied, it did it so bad yesterday it scared the crap outta me thought for a minute I was rear ended, needless to say I called and have an appt scheduled next week, apparently there is a bulletin out about this something to do with clutches??


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi Northerncruzer,

I am really sorry to read about that experience. We are here to assist you if you need it. You can keep us posted about your upcoming appointment and let us know if you need anything by sending us a private message.

Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

Here’s the latest with my Cruze surging at stop signs and lights. Nothing has been done in an attempt to repair it. I had sent a letter to GM about my ongoing dissatisfaction with my ownership experience to date and had a lengthy conversation with the regional District Manager in response to my letter (I finally got a call from a legitimate person from GM and not a contact center representative). I had purchased an OBDLink MX to use with the Torque app to see if there may be any kind of information which I could submit to them. I have not received any response about the data, which they have had for over a month to review it, and if there were any findings. While my Cruze is surging, I have found that shifting into the manual range does not eliminate the surging. There have been no codes or warning lights that have illuminated.


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## rudeboybelize (Aug 5, 2012)

*surging while stopped*

my car is currently at the dealership for this problem it happens in manual mode or D and with the brakes fully pressed ..it happens in neutral and hot and cold weather ..i have 38,000 miles and have tried to get this fixed over 10 times ..if i am not happy with the dealership correction i will not accept my car back and keep racking up miles on the rental that is covered by the dealership..i can also re peat this problem at almost any stop light as long as im stopped for 3 sec it will happen..i do not let off the brakes and am constantly checking to make sure im not a tad still on the gas pedal


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi rudeboybelize,

I'm sorry to read your post. Please PM me if you need some assistance. Happy holidays!

Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## rudeboybelize (Aug 5, 2012)

*surging while stop*

**Update** dealership service manager called yesterday night and states no mechanical problems found but they think its my throttle body needs to be cleaned ...$200 to clean TB only...will update again when i get the car in the afternoon back if it is fixed other wise i expect the service to be free since they have not corrected the problem accurately..has this fixed anyone else suring? 2012 1.8L CRUZE LS


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

rudeboybelize, this shouldn't cost you anything, especially if you have a history of reports on the problem.


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## rudeboybelize (Aug 5, 2012)

obermd said:


> rudeboybelize, this shouldn't cost you anything, especially if you have a history of reports on the problem.



i went to the dealership this morning straight to the service manager and showed written service work from there advisers also argued that it had been in written proof 4 times about this yet no repair "this is normal op in this model" every time i get the car back.... Nor did it suggest a or even say anything of them checking the throttle body..i ended up paying for the maintenance/servicing of the throttle body all to drive down the road to go to work and it sputter not even 1 mile away... just like before.... take it back... wont do it for anything again so im keeping a close eye on this one as the moment it happens i will be reporting here again....FIX Throttle Body Service + Re calibration :shocked:


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## rudeboybelize (Aug 5, 2012)

rudeboybelize said:


> i went to the dealership this morning straight to the service manager and showed written service work from there advisers also argued that it had been in written proof 4 times about this yet no repair "this is normal op in this model" every time i get the car back.... Nor did it suggest a or even say anything of them checking the throttle body..i ended up paying for the maintenance/servicing of the throttle body all to drive down the road to go to work and it sputter not even 1 mile away... just like before.... take it back... wont do it for anything again so im keeping a close eye on this one as the moment it happens i will be reporting here again....FIX Throttle Body Service + Re calibration :shocked:


Well its been 8 days since i got it back and doing my weekend checks over everything i like to do i notice my oil filter cap is wet more than normal dirt/dust combo (check daily) say okay and get in and start her up and oil starts blowing out of the filter housing, all over the exhaust(starts barely smoking), transmission housing and filter... this is after a dealer worked on it..also discovered that both my air intake(stock box) clamps were left loose extremely loose that if the intake slipped off the grove to keep it on(and i do like to punch it :tempted it would of probably gone right into the serpentine belt and also my surging while stopped is still happening except now its hard, smooth it just picks one i swear.. the TEMPO DEALER FIX only lasted 3 days i would say as i assumed something might still be wrong due to right before this happening i had a hard time accelerating in traffic but not freeway on ramps it is being towed into the dealer via GM Roadside Assistance....im not sure what to do


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## mitch_cruze (Aug 29, 2012)

So folks I have an update with my Cruze. I contacted the District Manager that I was in correspondence with, and I was advised that with a number of samples of sensor data when my Cruze is surging that the data is not sufficient to identify a failure. It was suggested that the surging will become more infrequent as it breaks in. I currently have 28,000 miles on my Cruze. This has been ongoing since I owned my Cruze for 5 months, and in a few months I will have owned it for two years. I have sought the assistance from three dealerships to date. My selling dealership duplicated the concern but later admitted that they did not know how to fix it. The problem has been ongoing for too long and I fear that this will result in me trading in my Cruze because I don't have any legal recourse for where I am located. I would suggest that if one cannot get any resolution to the surging concern to try visiting a different dealership, then writing to the president of General Motors should there be a lack of progress, and request intervention from General Motors management in the letter, and then seeking legal options should the matter continue to go unresolved.


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## hrogers (Jun 30, 2014)

I have a 2013 Cruz and this surging problem started in about July of 2013 with just 15K on the car. The dealership couldn't find the "problem" even with sitting in the car with me and the technician could feel the surge. If it doesn't throw a fault code then there is nothing to fix. Every time I would take my car in for an oil change, I would let them know it was still a problem. Finally, I had such a sever surge that I thought had been rear ended, however there was no vehicle behind me. Took it back to the dealership and guess what, there was a service bulletin that identified the problem exactly as I had been explaining it for 11 months. The car was "fixed", something about an issue with the clutch. Now, 3 weeks later the car is starting to do the same thing again. The dealership is now start with the same line of BS about no fault code can't fix it. I'm ready to return the car and buy something else and I've driven Chevy's for almost 20 years. It is really sad when the answer to "fix" the problem is not to pull up close to another vehicle or a crosswalk and to put the car in neutral as this will stop the surge issue. So, they acknowledge the problem but again are not willing to try and discovery the true reason behind it.


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## dhpnet (Mar 2, 2014)

I felt the surge yesterday in my Cruze. It felt like the transmission freaked out a little. It didn't really concern me. I just figured it was some glitch, so I let off the brake and pushed it in again and it stopped. I was on a downhill road, stopped at a light, cool weather in the morning, about 2 miles from my house, so it wasn't completely warmed up yet. I hope this doesn't become a big issue like the rest of you have had.


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## phpsteve (Jul 15, 2014)

I will tell you that I had read these forums prior to my buying my Cruze or joining here. Luckily I fancy Manual Transmissions and had they not had one..I would have skipped the automatic trans.. for these simple 2 reasons.

1) I prefer manual transmission (especially in winter)
2) I have read about this type of issue and the issue of accelerating from a stop on inclines with the weirdness of the transmission. 


I suspect the trans has a lot of quirks in it.. maybe some normal.. maybe some not. I am more and more thankful I bought the manual trans. I feel for you guys though and hope that GM or maybe even the GM help on here will look into this for you as it begins to worry even me about what I might run into with my car. If I didn't get a cruze I would have went with a dodge or other manufacturer. I'm frustrated for everyone when reading these problems.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi hrogers,

I'm very sorry to hear this! I understand that you have been in contact with your dealership in order to try to resolve your concern. I cannot guarantee anything, but I will be happy to look further into this for you. Please send us a private message with your full contact information, VIN, current mileage, and dealership name if we can help with your concern. I look forward to hearing from you!

Kristen A.
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## socalcruze (Aug 4, 2012)

I still (34K miles) pick this surging up every once in awhile. It is always when the transmission/engine is cold, within a mile or so of the starting point. Shifting to neutral while stopped makes it go away until the engine is warmed up, then it isn't a problem. I'm certain the problem lies in the transmission programming that is supposed to put it in neutral at stops to save a bit of fuel, and something in the system is causing it to "hunt" between neutral and first gear when stopped and cold. Someone at GM is being lazy by not just coming up with a software fix that keeps it from doing this when the transmission is cold.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

socalcruze said:


> I still (34K miles) pick this surging up every once in awhile. It is always when the transmission/engine is cold, within a mile or so of the starting point. Shifting to neutral while stopped makes it go away until the engine is warmed up, then it isn't a problem. I'm certain the problem lies in the transmission programming that is supposed to put it in neutral at stops to save a bit of fuel, and something in the system is causing it to "hunt" between neutral and first gear when stopped and cold. Someone at GM is being lazy by not just coming up with a software fix that keeps it from doing this when the transmission is cold.


Wouldn't surprise me. There are a ridiculous number of software issues with these cars. Thermostats, so many transmission programs, ECU updates, power steering, the confounded radios...

Have you had them check for updated SW for your transmission?


Sent from Bill the WonderPhone


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## Debcruze (Jul 27, 2014)

So is there a definitive answer to the surge issue? I have a 2013 LTZ for almost a year now. I had read about these surges before I bought the car and thought they were normal for the car. I got a letter yesterday from an attorney offering me lemon law services because I own a 2013 Cruze. Now I don't know what I should do? Does it need fixed? Does it have to be replicated since it seems to be a well documented issue. Do I begin a fight with the dealer?


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## bulldog (Aug 2, 2014)

Agreed. I bought my 13 cruze eco w/3500 miles last Saturday and mine is doing this. Anybody have a fix or is this just normal?


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## au201 (May 18, 2013)

socalcruze said:


> I still (34K miles) pick this surging up every once in awhile. It is always when the transmission/engine is cold, within a mile or so of the starting point. Shifting to neutral while stopped makes it go away until the engine is warmed up, then it isn't a problem. I'm certain the problem lies in the transmission programming that is supposed to put it in neutral at stops to save a bit of fuel, and something in the system is causing it to "hunt" between neutral and first gear when stopped and cold. Someone at GM is being lazy by not just coming up with a software fix that keeps it from doing this when the transmission is cold.


Mine won't do the neutral thing until the engine warms up, do no surging. I've felt it randomly kick back in to gear while sitting at a light and it won't go back to neutral until I move and stop again. 



Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## MIPS64 (Sep 10, 2012)

I have this problem, but it's very rare. Probably once every 3 months I experience it. It usually happens after I have gotten off of the freeway so I know it's not from a high idle. After I start to move again it stops doing it. But it is kind of scary to think the car is trying to lunge forward like that.


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## hrogers (Jun 30, 2014)

Update on my vehicle. This issue of surging is now getting worse and more frequent and this is after the "fix" provide by GM. Unfortunately, when it happens the dealership is either closed or I'm no where near the dealership to be able to get there before they close to allow them to test drive the car. I would think that with the number of issue reported here that a GM customer service rep has responding that GM would be working on resolving this issue. Having the GM customer service rep reach out to the dealership that I've been dealing with for over a year is not what I call assistance.


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## bulldog (Aug 2, 2014)

Ugg.....that is so frustrating!


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

Same here au201. When the engine is cold, it does not do it. once it heats up, I feel it almost all the time.


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## addakorn (Apr 9, 2014)

I have had this issue in my 2013 Eco since the day I took delivery. It started gentle, then got worse and worse.

I fought with my selling dealer for months. As it was an intermittent issue they were never able to reproduce the problem. I drove the car 16,450 miles with it bucking and surging, wondering when it was going to break down or cause me to get into a fender bender.

The dealer's response was "Hopefully it gets worse so that we can tell what it is."

Well it did. While I was out of town it started doing it at every stop. I took it into the local dealer and was told to bring it back next week.

That Saturday, it felt like I got rear ended. The car lurched forward about 10 feet.

It did it again at the next stop.

I parked it and had it towed. The vehicle was not safe to drive.

After apparently offending the general manager at the dealer the car was towed to, GM had to tow the car to a dealer about 50 miles further away. That dealer replaced my clutch packs and a few other parts. They also were able to fix an issue that plagued the radio since delivery.

Combined with the axle recall, I didn't see my car for just over a month. The rental Cruze that I had was a dream. It shifted so nice and didn't try to randomly give you whiplash at stoplights.


When I finally got my car back (after a false delivery where it broke down 5 miles from the dealership) I was impressed. It shifted great. I had thought the sloppy shifting and uneven acceleration was a product of the car being an Eco. I felt like I was finally in the new car that I had purchased.


That feeling lasted almost two hours.


As soon as I got off the interstate near my house, I felt it. Just the ever so slightest bump.


I am now at 22,580 and it has been getting worse, just like before.


I am fighting GM with a lemon buy back (the made an insulting offer) while driving a car that has a defective seatbelt and doesn't stay stopped at stoplights.


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## Aaron (Sep 19, 2013)

I had the same transmission issue with the followingsymptoms:

When the car is running, in drive, and stopped it wouldlurch or want to lurch forward (or bounce) with a visible move in the RPMs.Selecting “manual” on the automatic transmission and leaving the car in firstwould alleviate the problem. I took my 2013 Cruze LT to the dealer three times,one time printing out the fix, each time they would either modify the brakesettings or tell me nothing was wrong. 
On the third visit I asked them to test drive it again.They asked me to come in and drive it with a tech, I of course accepted. 

The bulletin is #PI0928C. 
Below are the steps they performed to fix the car (my caris now totally fixed).

Removed and disassembled transmission, replaced 1-2-3-4clutch friction plates. Replaced all necessary gaskets and seals. Replacedtransmission filter. Installed transmission and replaced fluids, flushedtransmission cooler, flush code #8b9ff86.


I give credit to Chesrown Chevrolet for fixing the issue.Third times the charm : )


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## tbatson44 (Apr 27, 2016)

This is the first post I am writing as I just signed up and this is the most recent thread I found regarding this issue with m 1.8. I have a little surging as well Happens when warmed up, stopped but in drive. I have heard the local chevy dealer in Cedar Rapids was about as useless when it comes to helping and it's pretty much true. I have had my car in a few times regarding this. They were able to duplicate and said there was a bulletin, got my car back in a couple days to the explanation that I had a different transmission, so they did absolutely nothing AND didn't say that. I was told was fixed, they sent me on the way. Of course, happened again. When I went back went on another drive and didn't happen. Chevy customer service rep wouldn't really help. All they are telling me is that it is because I am not running 91 octane in the car. 

The Chevy service rep did tell me my car is supposed to run fine on 87 octane, but it doesn't. Dealership won't do anything about it. With that all being said, is anyone else being told it's because of the octane? The service manual says 87 octane and chevy service rep says it should run fine on 87 but the service rep LEFT A MESSAGE saying my ticket was being closed without me being satisfied with any answer or approval. I am very much like others, have been a loyal Chevy/GM owner, until now. 

Has anyone been told the same or believe this is right? I kind of think the dealer is just trying to get me past 30,000 miles so they don't have to worry about warranty. I'm thinking about contacting a lawyer or some representation regarding lemon, because I bought this car since I drive so much and wanted a cheaper car and not a cheaper car only to have to run 91 octane.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I don't know about the 1.8, but the older 1.4 was designed for higher octane. It won't hurt itself if you use lower, but the driving experience suffers.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

tbatson44 said:


> This is the first post I am writing as I just signed up and this is the most recent thread I found regarding this issue with m 1.8. I have a little surging as well Happens when warmed up, stopped but in drive. I have heard the local chevy dealer in Cedar Rapids was about as useless when it comes to helping and it's pretty much true. I have had my car in a few times regarding this. They were able to duplicate and said there was a bulletin, got my car back in a couple days to the explanation that I had a different transmission, so they did absolutely nothing AND didn't say that. I was told was fixed, they sent me on the way. Of course, happened again. When I went back went on another drive and didn't happen. Chevy customer service rep wouldn't really help. All they are telling me is that it is because I am not running 91 octane in the car.
> 
> The Chevy service rep did tell me my car is supposed to run fine on 87 octane, but it doesn't. Dealership won't do anything about it. With that all being said, is anyone else being told it's because of the octane? The service manual says 87 octane and chevy service rep says it should run fine on 87 but the service rep LEFT A MESSAGE saying my ticket was being closed without me being satisfied with any answer or approval. I am very much like others, have been a loyal Chevy/GM owner, until now.
> 
> Has anyone been told the same or believe this is right? I kind of think the dealer is just trying to get me past 30,000 miles so they don't have to worry about warranty. I'm thinking about contacting a lawyer or some representation regarding lemon, because I bought this car since I drive so much and wanted a cheaper car and not a cheaper car only to have to run 91 octane.


Try a tank of 91 and see what happens. If that goes well, try a tank of 89 and see what happens. Then they can't say you didn't try, but that is very unlikely the cause of it happening while in drive at a stop.


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## tbatson44 (Apr 27, 2016)

I will try that and post the results. Hard for me to believe the cruze can't run on 87 octane. Either way, I'll update when I run a few tanks full.


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## anthonysmith93 (Jul 15, 2015)

I drive a 2014 1.4T and I also have this surge issue, and I know it's transmission related and not gas quality or rpm related (at least for me) because if the car is placed physically in neutral at a stop, it stops shake/surging, if I put it back in drive it surges again. I do get occasional hard surges where I thought someone rear ended me, but it didn't physically move the car, unlike most people (I guess) I keep my foot firm on the brakes at stoplights, as I've been rear ended before (in my old car) and almost hit the car in front of me.

The surging typically happens when the car isn't very warm, but has been observed happening at extended warmed up drive times as well. I always feel as if people can see my car shaking so I put it into neutral so people don't think my car is about to break down. Since it's intermittent and there seems to be no real fix for it, I won't take it in for repair, I'll just deal with it and hope it doesn't get any worse. Just wanted to make people aware that the newer Cruzes do it too, not just the 11-13 model years.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

anthonysmith93 said:


> I drive a 2014 1.4T and I also have this surge issue, and I know it's transmission related and not gas quality or rpm related (at least for me) because if the car is placed physically in neutral at a stop, it stops shake/surging, if I put it back in drive it surges again. I do get occasional hard surges where I thought someone rear ended me, but it didn't physically move the car, unlike most people (I guess) I keep my foot firm on the brakes at stoplights, as I've been rear ended before (in my old car) and almost hit the car in front of me.
> 
> The surging typically happens when the car isn't very warm, but has been observed happening at extended warmed up drive times as well. I always feel as if people can see my car shaking so I put it into neutral so people don't think my car is about to break down. Since it's intermittent and there seems to be no real fix for it, I won't take it in for repair, I'll just deal with it and hope it doesn't get any worse. Just wanted to make people aware that the newer Cruzes do it too, not just the 11-13 model years.


This is the classic clutch pack problem. Replacing the clutches should take care of it. This is mostly 13-14 cars that do this.


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## sublime1996525 (May 9, 2013)

I have this same problem and have taken it to the dealer a couple times but they can't get it to replicate, or so they say, so I've just given up on it. I can't wait to get rid of this car.


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## gt_cristian (Apr 7, 2012)

I have been living with this issue for 4 years. I had the following PI applied twice. No luck... 

https://gm.oemdtc.com/571/bump-surg...-in-drive-at-a-stop-2013-2014-buick-chevrolet


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## Pmend (Oct 11, 2017)

Ugh I have a 15 and it does this! I absolutely hate it. It?s quite embarrassing if you ask me, plus i think if there were ever to be a vehicle in front of me and it did that, yes it would be hit. Smh... but at least I know what it?s doing, I?m going to try putting it in neutral to make sure it?s this issue. Womp!


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## Tmiller39 (Oct 18, 2016)

I have a 2013 Cruze and mine does it after I?ve been driving awhile or if it hot outside.it is extremely annoying and I almost rear ended someone the other day because it jumps so bad. There is definitely a problem with these transmissions I hate them.and I completely changed my transmission fluid on my car using factory fluids.someone suggested trying am soil I might when I can save enough money to do a complete change.if you fixed the problem let me know thanks


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## Tmiller39 (Oct 18, 2016)

It has nothing to do with the gas I use 93 octane every time I fill up it?s not gas related at all it?s transmission related


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## Tmiller39 (Oct 18, 2016)

I have a 13 Chevy Cruze with apx 88000 miles and it does it all the time after the car warms up.i took it to two separate dealers and both said it was normal.now my Warrenty is out back this past dec,what can I do?how much is it to replace the clutch fiber plates?or would gm take care of this?


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