# Broken exhaust leading to Particulate Sensor and NOx2 codes?



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I had them remove the broken, rusty bolts and put the exhaust back together (I don't have a torch, nor to I have the time to deal with this at the moment), and it still is showing both sensors being bad. I know the NOx2 has been intermittent in whether it throws a code for probably a year or two now, so hopefully it is just the particulate sensor?


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Restoring the broken/separated components is what I would’ve started with. Interesting that didn’t clear the codes.

Are you saying the particulate sensor IS covered under warranty but the NOx2 is NOT?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

I’m not sure that it would clear the codes immediately. If after an hour or two of operation they haven’t cleared - I’d tend to agree.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Rivergoer said:


> Are you saying the particulate sensor IS covered under warranty but the NOx2 is NOT?


Yes, there is special coverage (10 years, 120k miles) on the particulate sensor, but the NOx2 sensor is only covered under the B2B warranty.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So, update today. They called and said they replaced the particulate sensor, and the car was good to go, but still had the code from the NOx2.

Perhaps I misunderstood and he meant the countdown, but when my wife got home with the car, it still had the countdown - now at about 56 miles.

I went out about half an hour later with my scanner. It had three codes (which I couldn't read, aside from just the number of codes - my scanner can't see the code itself on the CTD, unless it's a "normal" code), which I cleared, rescanned, and cleared again to make sure they were gone.

Still have the Service Emissions System message that is in the way of everything...but absolutely ZERO codes. I turned the car off, rechecked with the scanner - nothing. Cycled the ignition 3 or 4 times, still showing Service Emissions System, even with the car off, even with no CELs.

Started the car, and took it out for a mile or two drive - the TC-off-held-for-ten-seconds kind of drive. Beat the **** out of it, load the converter, launch it, WOT, fun kind of driving. Surely that would pop a code if there was one? Nope. No codes. Checked again with the scanner when I pulled back into the driveway. Nothing.

In the past when we had the countdown, it would go away when I cleared the code, but then immediately come back, with a code, right after starting the car...has the ECM just lost its mind or something?

She just took the car to her workout place, so that'll put about 11 miles on it...when she gets back, if the CEL is still off, but the message is still on, should I pull the negative battery cable to reset anything? This is getting ridiculous.

OK, she just got there (or is almost there), and she told me the CEL just came back on. But it almost seems like it could be a separate thing. How can you have an unavoidable "Service Emissions System" speed countdown _without_ a check engine light?

Or do I just finally say **** it and delete the stupid thing? Or at least put the delete tune on it, without removing the equipment, and never deal with a code again that GM won't pay to fix...


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Why did dealer send car back to you with issues? Makes no sense. Is most of your driving short trips? I am guessing it is.

Since I drive a couple hundred or more miles a day I have had almost no issues, stuck open EGR not long after all my city driving, and the def tank heater. I would be frustrated with the issues your having. Not a reliable car even after dealer services it. Yikes.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Looking at the invoice, the particulate sensor was throwing codes P24B4 and P24C7, while the NOx2 is throwing P22A1, P11DC and P22A3. Sounds like the P22A3 won't leave, but I can't see if the others were the ones that are back.

Based on their notes, the Particulate Sensor was rusted in the flange, they had to heat it, and "remove thread broke off in flange had cut in pieces and remove, installed new sensor and reset. 

Wondering if it being open to winter driving just smoked the sensors to the point of no return? 

I wish he had called me to check on if I wanted to do the NOx sensor, but it really sounded like it was fixed...otherwise I'd have just had them do the sensor, because it sounds like I'm going to have a blast trying to get this sensor out, if I can at all...

Guess I'll be ordering it tonight, and hoping it gets here before Wednesday, so we can take the car on vacation...


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> Why did dealer send car back to you with issues? Makes no sense. Is most of your driving short trips? I am guessing it is.
> 
> Since I drive a couple hundred or more miles a day I have had almost no issues, stuck open EGR not long after all my city driving, and the def tank heater. I would be frustrated with the issues your having. Not a reliable car even after dealer services it. Yikes.


It's about 17 miles to and from work - roughly between 25 and 45 minutes, depending on traffic. My wife works out at a place roughly 15 minutes away. But we'll take it on multiple-hundred miles road trips yearly too. Ever since cleaning the EGR last summer, the car has been running great, without many issues (aside from the battery, but that can happen to anything really).

But I'm getting real close to just deleting it and dealing with no further issues, as much as my wife will be sad she can't talk about the car being clean.

I was going back and forth on having the dealer do the sensor replacement, since it is $660, but I didn't say not to replace it entirely. More of, replace the particulate sensor and see what happens. The way I remember on the voicemail, he said there was still a code, but nothing about the countdown. Whatever, I'll order the sensor and hope it's here before we leave and just figure out how to get it out.

A friend of mine works at GM, and sits with guys in warranty - I'm hoping I can "use" that to get this sensor some special coverage for us all. Wouldn't that be magical?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

It takes my car at least 5 miles to come up to normal operating temps. My drive is 90-120 miles one way but highway and little start stop, it isn’t ideal for me, but for car I think it may better. I don’t do that more than 4 days a week. Prefer 2-3 days.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, when she goes to work out, it's maybe an hour or so after work, so the car isn't too cold, thankfully. But going to/from work, it definitely gets up to temp just fine. 

I have to imagine this all was caused from the exhaust being wide open and corroding the **** out of the sensors...because exhaust bolts rust and break in less than 4 years and less than 72k miles...probably broke around 65k if I were to guess when I started hearing what I thought was a heat shield.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Guess I need to look at the bolts and maybe replace with something more corriosion resistant proactively


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

Interesting. I had P11D7 for the rear NoX sensor but it never caused a countdown. Would just come up every time I reset the CEL. Ordered a new one off rock auto and installed myself ($600+ is highway robbery for that!). Really not hard at all, same procedure to get to the fuel filter.

Also had a failed PM sensor, was replaced under warranty. Also never caused a countdown.

Thankfully I proactively swapped out those flange studs or else I would probably be in the same boat!

If I am reading correctly, you haven t replaced the NoX sensor and you probably should if it was exposed to any number of contaminates. I would also disconnect battery, can't hurt and maybe there are store values the pcm is getting confused with..


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> Guess I need to look at the bolts and maybe replace with something more corriosion resistant proactively


Absolutely. I was planning on it, but I was too late, it seems. 

But I had no idea it was even running open after the SCR - it literally was not any bit louder.



LulzT1 said:


> Interesting. I had P11D7 for the rear NoX sensor but it never caused a countdown. Would just come up every time I reset the CEL. Ordered a new one off rock auto and installed myself ($600+ is highway robbery for that!). Really not hard at all, same procedure to get to the fuel filter.
> 
> Also had a failed PM sensor, was replaced under warranty. Also never caused a countdown.
> 
> ...


Yep - I didn't think the NOx2 could cause a countdown, but apparently I was incorrect...

Yeah, no way I'd pay $660 to have them do what I'm fully capable of doing - the only reason I was even considering it was in the interest of time. But they made the choice for me!


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Something caught my eye a few posts ago so I figured I’d say something about it, but absolutely do NOT install a delete tune and leave the DPF in there. The car will never regen on that tune and it will load your dpf up with soot and fully block it, destroy it, and make your car run like crap, if at all. If you are installing a delete tune, you absolutely have to do the work to remove the dpf with it. Which honestly if I was in your situation, would be something I would have done already lol.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yes, that is a good point - and thanks for the reminder about that. 

The next time it does something emissions related that isn't covered will probably be delete time.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

yeah @diesel replaced his exhaust studs with SS

i did as well, and replaced the gasket while i was at it, wasnt sure id be able to salvage it or not, it was cheap anyways.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Since they just replaced the gasket, I'm going to clamp the two flanges down, and replace the hardware with stainless. Should keep everything good there, as it'll maintain clamp load while the bolt is swapped.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The new NOx2 sensor is supposed to be delivered tomorrow (would be delivered today if it were not for that inconveniently timed holiday...).


I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the old sensor out..._assuming_ I can, and I swap the sensor, will the countdown go away on its own? 


I don't have any means to do the "NOX Sensor Reset" I saw on the invoice, nor do I have to time to go to the dealer, maybe aside from Wednesday morning (before we go drive 4 hours) to have them do it...


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Any info on whether or not some kind of reset is required after replacing the sensor? Or should the countdown go away, right then and there?


I spent at least a solid hour beating on my 22mm wrench with a 1lb deadblow (so much for the coating on my 22mm, guess I'll need a free replacement  ), to what appears to be absolutely no impact. 


I PB Blasted it 3 or 4 times, and then one last time after I called it quits. I'm borrowing my buddy's bottle torch. Hopefully that'll loosen the two up and I can get that stupid thing out. Otherwise it looks like we're renting a car for the trip (my tags will not be here in time for the Volt, and they expire...tomorrow). Because this stupid prone-to-repeat-failure of a sensor is not covered under special coverage.


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Any info on whether or not some kind of reset is required after replacing the sensor? Or should the countdown go away, right then and there?
> 
> 
> I spent at least a solid hour beating on my 22mm wrench with a 1lb deadblow (so much for the coating on my 22mm, guess I'll need a free replacement
> ...


I would try getting more torque on it (pipe or something to slip over it, could link another wrench on the end of the 22mm), get some heat too rather than smack it with a hammer. A torch is a great investment anyway. Plus, hitting the wrench is only going to damage it and round off the sensor nut!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I borrowed a MAPP torch from a friend of mine, and that did the trick. 

Just put the new sensor into the exhaust and connected the module (just to test everything)...annnnnd...still get the Service Emissions System message. 

Half tempted to get it back together, drive it to the dealer and force them to reset the NOx sensor, since clearly I cannot do that on my own vehicle.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MP81 said:


> Any info on whether or not some kind of reset is required after replacing the sensor? Or should the countdown go away, right then and there?
> 
> 
> I spent at least a solid hour beating on my 22mm wrench with a 1lb deadblow (so much for the coating on my 22mm, guess I'll need a free replacement  ), to what appears to be absolutely no impact.
> ...


I am so glad I don't live in an area with tons of road salt. My brother bought a car that spent its life in NY, and has the rust to prove it. The exhaust system took 5+ hours to get off the stupid thing to drop the transmission out. The rust would drive me nuts.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> I am so glad I don't live in an area with tons of road salt. My brother bought a car that spent its life in NY, and has the rust to prove it. The exhaust system took 5+ hours to get off the stupid thing to drop the transmission out. The rust would drive me nuts.


That's the thing - the sensor and the bung weren't even rusty. The SCR bolts to the rear section of exhaust system did rust in half, though. I'm not sure what kind of god awful steel they used for those bolts, but the new ones are nice and shiny...I'm sure not for how long, though.

Going up to the dealer in a few minutes (my wife already called and told them I will be coming up with the car, and they will be resetting the NOx sensor). If the message doesn't go away, they can feel free to take the car, and give us a loaner for our trip.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Just got back from the dealer...without the car.

They were awesome, and after my quick display of disappointment, they pulled the car in right away, since it should have been a quick operation.

Message *won't* clear, using the typical methods - despite having zero codes or stored codes. They're waiting for the diesel tech to get back, so he can look at it, because something else is going on here...

Guess we'll be going up later than expected...assuming the car is even fixed at all.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Got a call from the dealer - in order to get this message to go away, they have to do a full "Repair verification" procedure, which makes sure everything truly is fixed in order to remove the message.

So we've canceled my birthday dinner reservations tonight, as I doubt we'll be up there until about 9PM now, instead of 4PM. What a wonderful birthday present.

I mean, this is all a bit silly, isn't it? Part goes bad, I replace part, car should be fine...but nope, can't have that.


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## jkhawaii (Feb 12, 2016)

I have found the most important thing on this engine is, keep the oil level below the full line. 4 quarts at time of oil change is more then enough.


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Got a call from the dealer - in order to get this message to go away, they have to do a full "Repair verification" procedure, which makes sure everything truly is fixed in order to remove the message.
> 
> So we've canceled my birthday dinner reservations tonight, as I doubt we'll be up there until about 9PM now, instead of 4PM. What a wonderful birthday present.
> 
> I mean, this is all a bit silly, isn't it? Part goes bad, I replace part, car should be fine...but nope, can't have that.


Wow, that's annoying! Did you try disconnecting the battery and letting the car sit for a while? Would be a real PITA to have a "repair verification" step forcing you to go to the dealer, unless that is their fancy term for resetting the computer...


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I mean, this is all a bit silly, isn't it? Part goes bad, I replace part, car should be fine...but nope, can't have that.


Yep, computers are your friend...not.

Keep us posted, dying to know what “else” is going on here...


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

No, I didn't try disconnecting the battery - figured that it likely has a memory and would immediately remember that nothing is wrong, but it thinks something is.

Still nothing yet...

This car has basically ruined my birthday, so that's wonderful. We were supposed to already be up there by now. Now it'll be dark, which is great with these garbage headlights...

Should have just rented a car this morning and called it a day.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Bummer, well for what it’s worth...ccasion13:arty:artytime:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Got a call at 5:30 from the dealer - their diesel tech stayed late, and got it taken care of - save for a test drive (they drove it around the lot a few times, but that's all they had time for). No codes came up, and the repair verification ran successfully. 

Our tech advisor knew we were going on vacation, so he gave me the option, since they wouldn't be able to drive it until tomorrow (on an slightly related note, him and I may have allegedly talked about diesels and how they should not have EGR - he was much more knowledgeable than the advisor we had when it was at the dealer last week fixing the exhaust and replacing the particulate sensor).

So, knowing it had maybe a mile or two of driving on it, we went and got the car, filled it up (it was at 1/4 tank, since we had no way to see the trip odometer, or clear it, because of that stupid god **** countdown message).

6 hours later than we intended to be here, and 255 miles, we arrived - so I'd say that qualifies for a test drive. All in all, not even remotely ideal - probably one of the most "uncooperative" birthdays I've ever had, but the dealer came through today for us - they generally have always been great. They could have easily said "No, we can't look at it today", but they did. Maybe they thought it'd be the quick 5 minute thing I said it would be, or maybe they knew it could be more - either way, they got us the car back in the same day, and we made the four hour trek up north.

My wife has already passed out, because of course she has, but who says I can't still celebrate my birthday?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

For the record - give the headlights a turn or turn and a half up. Mine was horribly misadjusted from the factory and I was amazed how much better the lights were aimed properly. And was never flashed again! 

I've noticed other Cruzes on the road always appear to have super dim headlights that will blind you if they're at a different road angle from you. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Yay for CGT!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> For the record - give the headlights a turn or turn and a half up. Mine was horribly misadjusted from the factory and I was amazed how much better the lights were aimed properly. And was never flashed again!
> 
> I've noticed other Cruzes on the road always appear to have super dim headlights that will blind you if they're at a different road angle from you.


That's good to know - we both were commenting on how _well_ they were suddenly working on the drive up - no vision issues with them at all. Maybe it's because the dealer cleaned the windshield for us when we pulled in, or because it was *so* dark out with hardly any oncoming traffic, but they were doing pretty well. 

Still, I think it was because of those factors, and they'll be back to useless if it rains or anything. I really wish I had jumped on the pair of retro'd FX-R headlights here, as those would have done the trick.

How would I best know if the headlights do, in fact, need to be adjusted?



Sunline Fan said:


> Yay for CGT!


Absolutely! We're staying at their Inn right on the winery.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I just couldn't see a darn thing with mine. If they look pretty dim looking at the car straight on, I'd see what a single turn up does for you. There should be a clear cutoff on a wall from 20-30 ft away.

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/36-gen1-audio-electronics/3396-adjusting-headlights.html


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## jmlo96 (May 2, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> I just couldn't see a darn thing with mine. If they look pretty dim looking at the car straight on, I'd see what a single turn up does for you. There should be a clear cutoff on a wall from 20-30 ft away.
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/36-gen1-audio-electronics/3396-adjusting-headlights.html


Seriously. I remember when I first got mine you could only see about a car length in front of you. Now that I've "adjusted them" they shoot so much farther. Putting on the heavier gauge headlight harness seemed to make a difference as well. 

Once they are aimed I'd say they are pretty good lights. Not the best, but better than most cars.


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