# Drain water from fuel filter?



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I had an interesting oil change experience at the dealership today. Paraphrased, the conversation was like this:

ME: "While you have it up on the lift, could you drain the water out of the fuel filter? It's a diesel."
Service Writer: "If you want the fuel system drained we have to send it back to our diesel technician."
ME: "No, not drain the fuel system. Drain the fuel filter so any water comes out."
SW: "To drain the fuel filter means we have to replace the entire filter."
ME: "No, not replace the filter. Just drain it. There's a tap at the bottom to open it up and let just a couple ounces out to drain any water."
SW: "Oh... if we do that it has to go to our diesel technician. You'll have to make an appointment for that."

So, apparently the oil change technicians don't have a clue about draining water from diesel fuel filters as recommended routine maintenance. I asked them to just do it while the car was up on the lift, using the used oil catch can to take a couple ounces of fuel out of the filter to make sure any water is drained. They couldn't or wouldn't understand what I was talking about. This was after I caught the technician walking across the service area with quarts of oil, asked to see the oil just for my interest, and had to tell them to go get Dexos 2 oil to put in the car instead of Dexos 1 oil.


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## Farmerboy (Sep 2, 2012)

At that point I would be thinking of telling them to just let the car down and I would do something different.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

oil change technician?


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

........just got the heebie jeebies.......ugh


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> oil change technician?


It's slightly more professional than calling them grease monkeys.

When in college I did the job for 3 years. I took pride in my work. I memorized filters for lots of basic makes and models of cars. I spent time cutting apart filters to see the inside and for my regular customers I always recommended upgrades to a better filter than the basic orange ones that came cheap.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Wow, that is quite concerning. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Farmerboy said:


> At that point I would be thinking of telling them to just let the car down and I would do something different.


You know, taking it to any other shop is going to be more of the same. I'm anticipating a future where I'll have to bring my own filter and oil to ensure it's the proper materials being used.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> oil change technician?


Follow-up question: Does your local dealership not have an oil change shop attached?

My dealership in town has a sizable service area for lots of work. They also have an express lube area where you can bring vehicles in for oil changes and tire rotations that don't need the attention of a thoroughly trained mechanic.

I'll easily admit that I have more attention to detail than the average owner, but the questions I was asking were not deeply technical questions that need more than a basic amount of attention to keep me a satisfied customer. It's OK, I understand that maybe 2% or less of the Cruze vehicles sold by Chevy are diesel powered, so it's not every day they have one drive into the shop for an oil change. Still, it's like 30 seconds of extra work to do what I asked (drain the fuel filter) and it doesn't take a certified mechanic to do this.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> Follow-up question: Does your local dealership not have an oil change shop attached?
> 
> My dealership in town has a sizable service area for lots of work. They also have an express lube area where you can bring vehicles in for oil changes and tire rotations that don't need the attention of a thoroughly trained mechanic.
> 
> I'll easily admit that I have more attention to detail than the average owner, but the questions I was asking were not deeply technical questions that need more than a basic amount of attention to keep me a satisfied customer. It's OK, I understand that maybe 2% or less of the Cruze vehicles sold by Chevy are diesel powered, so it's not every day they have one drive into the shop for an oil change. Still, it's like 30 seconds of extra work to do what I asked (drain the fuel filter) and it doesn't take a certified mechanic to do this.


yeah it does

almost no mechanic is gonna care aboot your car as much as you (royal you) same with the salesmen in the dealership, if you were to spend 10 mins googling a car, you would know more aboot it than the avg salesman

dealerships care even less as they do have 'oil change technicians' working on your car, instead of a real mechanic. 

i cringed when i went for my 4 free oil changes, not allowed in the shop so i dunno what happened, but yeah i was concerned they would screw it up and weighed it vs the free oil

the one time i went in JUST for warranty or recall work, they changed the oil ROFL, nowhere on the sheet did it say change the oil....OLM was at 29%, policy at the time was you couldnt use one of your free oil changes until it was at 20%, so why would they change it at 9% higher??? they tried to make a big deal aboot oh well we're not gonna charge you for it, dude, you cant charge me for it, i didnt authorize it...so have i been back since the free oil is gone? NOPE.

does it take a real mechanic to change oil or drain some water? no. but it takes giving a ****.

oil change monkey making min wage aint gonna care


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Follow-up question: Does your local dealership not have an oil change shop attached?


Some do and some don't. The dealer closest to where I work has a drive-in, no appointment needed express oil change. I like using that one for convenience, but they're also the ones that didn't get the access panel tightened down well that one time.



Barry Allen said:


> I'll easily admit that I have more attention to detail than the average owner, but the questions I was asking were not deeply technical questions that need more than a basic amount of attention to keep me a satisfied customer. It's OK, I understand that maybe 2% or less of the Cruze vehicles sold by Chevy are diesel powered, so it's not every day they have one drive into the shop for an oil change. Still, it's like 30 seconds of extra work to do what I asked (drain the fuel filter) and it doesn't take a certified mechanic to do this.


My car came with a dealer-supplied lifetime powertrain warranty. Because I want to keep that in force, I have the dealer do everything on my Cruze. If they screw it up, it's on them. Yeah, it's more hassle and time to take the car in for an oil change. It's also more hassle down the line if they screw it up and I have to tangle with the warranty company. But, because it's a diesel I plan to drive 300k miles and diesel parts and labor can get really spendy when things break, I'll let the GM dealers have their way with it.

For the record, every single GM/Chevy dealer that I've had work on this car has disappointed me at least once and in some cases multiple times and there's one dealer I won't go back to at all -- and they're happy to not see me any more.


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## 6speedTi (May 18, 2018)

Sounds like they just want to make money by performing additional work. I have to also say that I have encountered service writers in the past that are dumber than a 10lb. bag of rocks.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

boraz said:


> almost no mechanic is gonna care aboot your car as much as you (royal you) same with the salesmen in the dealership, if you were to spend 10 mins googling a car, you would know more aboot it than the avg salesman


The car I bought was 220 miles away. The dealership made me come sign purchase paperwork before they went to get the car because that other dealership was being major D-holes about trading one car for another.

As part of the purchase I made the finance guy get the general manager and stuck a signed clause in the purchase agreement that if the driver who went to pick the car up filled it with gasoline, they were keeping the car and I wasn't buying it. They were unhappy, but they signed it.


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## TonyC (Jan 16, 2019)

I think all dealerships do that now with these express lubes. They would not touch my fuel filter on my Grand Am and was sent over for a licensed mechanic to replace it. Same for my diesel cruze but it's apparently not as simple as just turning the drain valve. I watched through the window as the mechanic removed the underside floor deadner to gain access to the filter housing, plus mine was a change out at 6% filter life left.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Many dealers don't have higher level trained and experiences techs change oil for several reasons

First it's important you understand that most dealership technicians aren't salaried or hourly employees they are paid on what's called "flat rate", this is a production based system where every job has a labor time multiplier associated with it. The mechanics job is to accumulate as much labor time per week as possible(this "time" is not related to how long they are present in their work area). A typical oil change has a labor time of 0.3 multiply this by an average top tier Chevy dealership techs pay of $30, and he gets $9 to change your oil, fill out the necessary paperwork and inspections.

1. Some top level techs refuse to do stand alone oil changes because they are prima donnas, or because it takes them off high paying top level work
2. Dealerships don't like to slow down their high producing top techs with low profit margin oil changes, taking them off of big dollar engine, transmission and electrical work.
3. Dealerships can actually LOSE money by having to pay a top tech do do them. If you're getting a $39 oil change, with 6 quarts of $4 oil and a $4 filer that leaves $11 gross profit. Have a $30 tech do the job, and there remians only $2 to be split between the parts department, the service writer, and to cover the actual cost of what a $30 tech actually costs including insurance, taxes, and benefits. In other words...They lose money. So there lack of willingness to perform even "45 seconds" of extra work can take on some context. Add in the fact that top tier diesel techs can make $50, and there dealer is $6 in the red before anything beyond the techs wage is taken care of.

Does this mean you can't get a top tier diesel tech to perform your maintenance? Of course not. But it means you'll need to jump through some hoops, make appointments and likely try to forge a relationship with that tech. Because I can tell you that a majority of top level techs are not going to be willing to perform the free/included maintenances unless they expect to be "fed" with profitable non scheduled maintenances, heavy failure type repairs, or some sort of tips or other relationship with customer beyond the "I'm here for my free ****" exchange most people have with a dealer.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> Does this mean you can't get a top tier diesel tech to perform your maintenance?


I don't want or need a diesel tech to do routine maintenance. I just need an oil change tech to use a wrench to drain the sump of a fuel filter, something that is a 30 second job. If it's routine maintenance in the manual at every oil change, it ought to be included with the oil change.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I did my own maintenance when I had my diesel, I never drained the fuel filter until I changed the filter. I think you would better served if your heart really is set on draining fuel filter to do it yourself. I agree with you that you shouldn’t have to do it. I think they will say they did and really didn’t which defeats the purpose.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Ma v e n said:
> 
> 
> > Does this mean you can't get a top tier diesel tech to perform your maintenance?
> ...


You do though, the dealerships you're going to doesn't have it's oil change guys do more than oil changes. So you need to do as I said....Jump through their hoops and schedule with the diesel tech, or you need find a new service center that meets your expectations for the services performed during an oil change and the experience/skill level of the mechanic performing the work

Just because YOU think draining the water from the filter is simple, and required at every oil change, doesn't mean they do, or that it is.(devil's advocate here, not suggesting it's actually hard)
Additionally its typically NOT an oil change inclusion at many shops, or in the owners manual.
You already had an issue with them nearly putting the wrong oil in. Why would you want them to do anything else? Pick a new shop, or do it yourself...

At the average dealership the oil change person is not in an apprenticeship, or on their way towards certification as a higher level tech. Many of these people make the same or LESS than the average employee at the local McD's and Walmart. They can be required to provide their own tools in virtually every state, in many states no mechanic is required to be licensed or certified in ANY way whatsoever to work on cars, and as the least trained person in the shop are expected to do the job that most customers have the highest expectations regarding time to complete. 

The average customer getting a complex job done has no idea how no idea how long replacing reticulating goshen membrane sensor take, or even could take...But they all have an idea(even if horribly wrong) how long an oil change takes. It puts them and the shop in a shitty position if the shop isn't very progressive and ahead of current(last 30years) trends in shop management and mechanic pay arrangements.

The "good old days" when it seemed to be relatively easy to find a qualified mechanic who did good work AND gave a **** about anyone besides his family are long gone. Largely because the pay plans that used to make those guys feel special and WANT to do that level of work are gone. You treat your work force like they are readily replaceable and don't pay them their fair share of your profits...Well you get guys who do "just enough to not get fired"







View attachment 269025


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Not every dealer uses rookie to change oil. I took my 04f150 to a small town ford dealer to change oil and do an inspection of truck, I get a real mechanic and it’s small enough dealer I can stand by service table and watch him work, he did an outstanding job and for less than 30 bucks and uses ford oil and filters, we had a conversation and I couldn’t be happier. It’s super cold outside, I don’t want to do it, plus I wanted a full inspection since the 41k mile truck was new to me.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> Additionally its typically NOT an oil change inclusion at many shops, or in the owners manual.


_*"As an added precaution, drain the diesel fuel filter of residual water at every engine oil change."*_

That's on page 251 of the owner's manual.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> Not every dealer uses rookie to change oil. I took my 04f150 to a small town ford dealer to change oil and do an inspection of truck, I get a real mechanic and it’s small enough dealer I can stand by service table and watch him work, he did an outstanding job and for less than 30 bucks and uses ford oil and filters, we had a conversation and I couldn’t be happier. It’s super cold outside, I don’t want to do it, plus I wanted a full inspection since the 41k mile truck was new to me.


You're 100% correct, not every dealer does. Not every dealer even has dedicated lube techs, but many do.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Ma v e n said:
> 
> 
> > Additionally its typically NOT an oil change inclusion at many shops, or in the owners manual.
> ...


Yup, as an "ADDED precaution". meaning as something additional beyond the recommended or required maintenance as outlined in the manual, a
Page 350 states: "On vehicles with diesel engines,
it is recommended to drain the
diesel fuel filter of water when
the WATER IN FUEL -
CONTACT SERVICE message
displays or a minimum of once a year"

Draining it every oil change is not considered required standard procedure per GM. And as such, combined with the issues which arise simply from a typical dealers lack of familiarity with the small diesels, you get a situation where your expectations and experience and procedures of a typical dealer don't align.

Find a new shop, or forge a better understanding of your needs with this one.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> Not every dealer uses rookie to change oil. I took my 04f150 to a small town ford dealer to change oil and do an inspection of truck, I get a real mechanic and it’s small enough dealer I can stand by service table and watch him work, he did an outstanding job and for less than 30 bucks and uses ford oil and filters, we had a conversation and I couldn’t be happier. It’s super cold outside, I don’t want to do it, plus I wanted a full inspection since the 41k mile truck was new to me.


I imagine there are small-town dealerships that aren't getting the volume necessary to have their own lube shop. My local dealership is in the largest county in Illinois, in the largest city (part of twin cities). When I was there on a Tuesday it was one person as the service writer in the office and two guys doing the oil change. They have two bays set aside for oil changes so they can do pretty brisk business if they want, and I'm sure they do on other days (maybe Saturdays?).


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