# My salesman in Clinton , MO says the 1.4L Turbo is a Toyota engine



## Gonzo74 (Mar 1, 2014)

During my test drive, my salesman told me that the cruze 1.4L turbo is actually a toyota engine. He also told me that GM paid millions of dollars to keep this quiet. Well, many thoughts I had going through my mind during all this. Mainly was bs, but I was wondering if anyone else had heard such a tale. I looked on many foreign search engines and couldn't find a peep about it. Just curious. I love my cruze. I hope the drive-train lasts. We all know the paint will not. One of the worst chip resistant paint I have seen. Thanks for reading.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

You should have laughed and told him to look up the GM family 0 ecotec line to see where it actually came from before telling people something that is not true. 

GM Family 0 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Dragonsys (May 27, 2013)

stupid salesman


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## N8zdad (Mar 23, 2014)

...My neighbor's, girlfriend's, brother's, curling team mate told him he read it on the interweb so it must be true.

However, lest we forget the joint effort that produced the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix fraternal twins.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

Wow...what a moron lol. Was this at a chevy dealership or a non chevy dealership? 

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## 99_XC600 (Feb 24, 2013)

I thought it was designed by dead pirate hookers or something.


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## Gonzo74 (Mar 1, 2014)

It was a GM dealership. Just another douchy salesman. I left bad reviews anywhere I could about Jim Falk motors. I like the car, but I will never buy from there again.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

Sounds like a horrible dealership. If a salesman tells you crap like that, then that doesn't say much about him/her or the dealership. That's ridiculous if you ask me.


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## ParisTNDude (Oct 7, 2013)

I wonder why anyone, especially a GM dealership employee, would tell you such a thing? Well, you must have liked something about the dealership...you bought the car.


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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

That's one of the more hilarous fish stories I've heard about a salesman telling. Seems like it'd be a better selling point to push it as a "German" engine since the Family 0 (and pretty much all GM 4 cylinders for the past several years) is an Opel design. What's so great about a Toyota engine? They've made some good ones, but so has GM, and Toyota has also made their share of turkeys (I'm looking at you, 90s Corollas that start burning a ton of oil after 100k). Heck, push the whole car as German engineered, seems to work well for VW marketing despite their lackluster build quality and schizophrenic electronics.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

He must have been thinking back to the Prizm!


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jim Frye said:


> He must have been thinking back to the Prizm!


Or my first car an 1987 Chevy Nova, which is just a rebadged toyota corolla.


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## ChrisWorldPeace (Jun 24, 2013)

**** I thought it had a bugatti engine 

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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

Or maybe your salesman was thinking of the Cruze's predecessor (well, Cobalt's predecessor I guess, but you get the point).


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

CW_ said:


> View attachment 68945



The rare toyota cavalier 1995-2000, only sold in japan.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Update Gm is building a new line of Engines ..1.0, 1.3 , 1.4
1.5 ...inside news...


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## mikee1978 (Feb 17, 2013)

Gonzo74 said:


> It was a GM dealership. Just another douchy salesman. I left bad reviews anywhere I could about Jim Falk motors. I like the car, but I will never buy from there again.


Yeah when I first decided on buying a Cruze that was where I went. My salesman was not very knowledgeable about the car either. Told me the movie icon on the mylink was for watching movies. Then they "couldnt" get me the deal I wanted, so I went to W-K in Sedalia got all the same features and ended up paying less per month than I was trying to from Jim Falk.


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## MiamiMichael (Mar 12, 2014)

Seems as though the salesman told you garbage, to help sell the car.

I would have walked-away @ that instant.

Obviously, the salesman cannot be trusted.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

Here in Oz, the "Cruze" that GMH sold before the (Daewoo Lacetti Premiere)-type Cruze was a Suzuki Ignis.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Wow, the Cruze has a Toyota engine? I will take a dozen of them, where do I sign?


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## marden64 (Dec 1, 2013)

When I went looking for mine, the salesman was telling me things about it and at some point, he said "I think it has...but I'll have to check on that" I told him not to bother as it did have it and went on to tell him things about the car he didn't know.


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## N8zdad (Mar 23, 2014)

You should arm yourself with at least the basic information about the vehicle you are interested in before you set foot into a dealership for 2 reasons. One because you're a fool if you don't and 2 so you can sift through whatever BS the salesman might throw at you.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

I wonder where he heard that? Maybe from his 2006 Corolla?


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## sx sonic (Nov 25, 2013)

Maybe the salesman is right, he works at a dealership afterall.

And maybe the Cruze and Sonic are built in Tibet by Jawas, and designed by the Empire. GM just paid alot of money to keep it quiet.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm glad the Cruze is not in any way associated with Toyota and their stupid buzzy little 1.8L engine and cheap interior from the Corolla.

I had a Chevy Prizm (Corolla twin) as my drivers ed car. One of the most underpowered cars I've ever driven - ended up pushing the gas so far down on most hills that it would finally downshift around 25 MPH and redline. Years later, we had a 2013 Corolla as a rental. Yep, still sucks. 

The engine under the hood matters a lot to me when buying a car. Toyota can build a darn good V6 motor, but Honda builds a better 4-cylinder (especially the K series). And (very) recently, GM and Ford have learned how to build a good 4-cylinder too...I came away very impressed with the Ford Ecoboost 1.5 and GM 1.4T and 2.0T motors.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

To me, I don't think the engines that are in the sonic and cruze are a Toyota motor. Afterall, Toyota doesn't make an ecotec, and GM is the only manufacturer that I know that does. I think that's all a scam from what the salesman at the dealership said. That's just my .02 cents


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Strange what engines you can find in a car. A couple of years ago Toyota sold a performance Corolla in Australia with a 1.8 n/a engine putting out 177hp only thing was the engine was made by Yamaha and went like a rocket if you revved it but had no low down torque. It was a good track car but usless as a DD.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> Strange what engines you can find in a car. A couple of years ago Toyota sold a performance Corolla in Australia with a 1.8 n/a engine putting out 177hp only thing was the engine was made by Yamaha and went like **** if you revved it but had no low down torque. It was a good track car but usless as a DD.


Yup, the "XRS". Basically they tried to make a Civic SI. Normally Toyota's are tuned for low-end power.

In any case, it still didn't bring much excitement to the car.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Could write a book on what car salesman said, here is some examples,

"*What the Dealer Says:*
*"You have to make the deal today."*
*What You Should Say: *
*"Sorry, this offer expires tonight.*"'

*What the Dealer Says:*
*"I have to check with my manager.**"*
*What You Should Say: *
*"I have to check with my spouse.**"

*
*What the Dealer Says:*
*"**I have to put food on my table.**"*
*What You Should Say: *
*"I have to keep food on my table."

*
*What the Dealer Says:*
*"We’re already losing money on this deal.*"
*What You Should Say: *
*" I’m already losing a **** of a lot of money on this deal."

*
*What the Dealer Says: *
*"I’ve got another offer, this is in high demand."*
*What You Should Say: *
*"I could go down the street and get the same car."

*
*What the Dealer Says:*
*"This is the only one like it, take it or leave it."*
*What You Should Say: *
*"I am the only person who would ever buy this ridiculously unusual car."

*
*What the Dealer Does:*
*Last-minute price increase or hidden fees*
*What You Should Do: *
*Last-minute offer decrease.

*
*What the Dealer Says:*
*"I’m throwing in all this for free."*
*What You Should Say: *
*"I don’t even want all this stuff."*

This is my own experience with a Chevy salesman.

*What the Dealer Does:*
*I am getting a divorce and trying to keep my kid.*
*What You Should Do: *
*I am not your divorce attorney.*


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

I swear, Top Gear should do an episode where they send people undercover into car dealerships. Pure BS factories sometimes, and a good source of humor for those who do know.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah the Smurfboarding Smurf can write it .. Smurf you are needed on Top Gear !


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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

chevycruze2012 said:


> To me, I don't think the engines that are in the sonic and cruze are a Toyota motor. Afterall, Toyota doesn't make an ecotec, and GM is the only manufacturer that I know that does. I think that's all a scam from what the salesman at the dealership said. That's just my .02 cents


I am probably being Captain Obvious here, but It's a GM engine, or if you want to be particular, an Opel engine. Both the 1.4T and 1.8, and I believe the 2.0TD as well. The 1.4T is a "Family 0" Opel I4, built at the GM engine plant in Flint, MI for the US-built Cruze (or Aspern, Austria if it's one of the first cars from before the Flint plant was building them). IIRC the 1.8 is made at GM's engine plant in Toluca, Mexico for the US.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

1.8 L could be a Toyota engine because it uses a timing belt, GM was always against timing belts and spent over 6 million bucks trying to develop a quiet chain for a cam in the head engine. Japanese cars were using timing belts for years and even in interference engines.

Never was a good idea.


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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

NickD said:


> 1.8 L could be a Toyota engine because it uses a timing belt, GM was always against timing belts and spent over 6 million bucks trying to develop a quiet chain for a cam in the head engine. Japanese cars were using timing belts for years and even in interference engines.
> 
> Never was a good idea.


I thought GM tried using timing belts and got bitten on the rear end by them. My father was an auto mechanic at one point in his life and I've heard him swear about the few years that GM used rubber belts instead of a chain. At least those big pushrod V8s weren't interference engines and were relatively easy to service (and replace the belt with a double-roller chain and gears). Still leaves you with a dead car, but at least it's only replacing the timing components and not a bunch of valves and maybe some pistons too.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Belts are cheaper to engineer into a design than a chain.

It was probably needed on the 1.8 to match the price of other entry-level economy cars.


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## CW_ (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm just an engineer, but to me the chain vs belt thing seems like a great marketing opportunity. Get rid of the belt on the 1.8, and then Chevy could run some magazine ads listing the service interval and estimated replacement cost of the timing belt in some of the Cruze's competitors. I've seen that repair with labor run as high as $1k, and surely it would not add a thousand bucks to the cost of the motor to use a chain instead of a belt.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

Personally...id rather have a belt. I do know GM had some issues with the timing chains in the 2.4L engines that were in the 00-05 cavalier, and 00-06 cobalts. I think they had the 2.4L ecotec engines in all those years for the cobalts. But I do know gm had those problems with the ecotecs for the cavalier and cobalts.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

chevycruze2012 said:


> Personally...id rather have a belt. I do know GM had some issues with the timing chains in the 2.4L engines that were in the 00-05 cavalier, and 00-06 cobalts. I think they had the 2.4L ecotec engines in all those years for the cobalts. But I do know gm had those problems with the ecotecs for the cavalier and cobalts.


2.2L ecotec (L61) was used in those cars. It was not a chain failure, but the tensioner would fail. There is an updated tensioner, the tensioner is mounted in the rear upper head(passenger side). You can inspect it to see which design you have. In this image, the one on left is new design, right old. If yours has a flat top and no center protrusion, you have an old style tensioner. *Good info to know looking at used 2000-2008 2.2 L61 ecotec cars. *
https://z22se.co.uk/data/attachment-files/2013/05/21877_d13e415a5823fd3d4a88a20c94f80493.jpg


This was not usually a catastrophic failure, most of the time the engine would become very very noisy first(knocking, diesel type sounds, see youtube).


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Not unique to GM either. Tensioners or worn nylon guides are the most common failures on a timing chain motor, and something that the timing chain "haters" will bring up every time. Like spacedout said, generally a timing chain motor will make a whole lotta noise before it fails. Depending on how good (or not) the design is, some cars will need chain work in their lifetime too - they are not immune to ever being worked on. Bad designs aside, poor oil change history can make the chain system or guides wear down to the point that there is lots of slop in the timing system.

On the other hand, a timing belt engine is cheaper, less noisy, will not develop oil leaks from a chain cover gasket, and does not need to be lubricated (all bearings are sealed and generally replaced at the time the belt is changed). But they do have to be replaced every 60-100K miles depending on the manufacturer.

I changed one chain on a SOHC BMW I4 motor, and it was a huge pain - much moreso than a timing belt on another inline motor. On the other hand, I had another (I4) car with 320K on the same timing chain its whole life.

There are several engines I would avoid for their entirely too complicated chain/belt change. Those would be anything by VW or Subaru boxer engines...or any DOHC V6 these days with a history of needing timing work. You could not pay me enough to want to deal with this kinda crap.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Best timing I ever had was my 1964 Holden EH which had a fiber gear on the cam which meshed with a steel gear on the crank, really quiet and extremely reliable.


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## chevycruze2012 (Nov 13, 2012)

spacedout said:


> 2.2L ecotec (L61) was used in those cars. It was not a chain failure, but the tensioner would fail. There is an updated tensioner, the tensioner is mounted in the rear upper head(passenger side). You can inspect it to see which design you have. In this image, the one on left is new design, right old. If yours has a flat top and no center protrusion, you have an old style tensioner. *Good info to know looking at used 2000-2008 2.2 L61 ecotec cars. *
> https://z22se.co.uk/data/attachment-files/2013/05/21877_d13e415a5823fd3d4a88a20c94f80493.jpg
> 
> 
> This was not usually a catastrophic failure, most of the time the engine would become very very noisy first(knocking, diesel type sounds, see youtube).


Well I can vouch for my buddy because he had to service the timing chain on the 2.4L ecotec's a lot every 20k miles. Plus I was one of those that had an 05 cavalier with the ecotec and I had timing chain problems as well. So from personal experience, it was the timing chain. Not trying to argue but I know what I saw from these motors because im not the only one that this happened to.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> Best timing I ever had was my 1964 Holden EH which had a fiber gear on the cam which meshed with a steel gear on the crank, really quiet and extremely reliable.


Ford's venerable 300 cu in I6 pushrod used the same design - never even heard of a timing problem with one. A great motor...aside from the oil leaks.

Unfortunately, that's hard to do with overhead camshaft motors. VW has done it - see the Touraeg V10 TDI, but it's a very expensive (and noisy) design.


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

i just lol'd ....toyota? really?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

chevycruze2012 said:


> Well I can vouch for my buddy because he had to service the timing chain on the 2.4L ecotec's a lot every 20k miles. Plus I was one of those that had an 05 cavalier with the ecotec and I had timing chain problems as well. So from personal experience, it was the timing chain. Not trying to argue but I know what I saw from these motors because im not the only one that this happened to.


You had a 2005 cavalier and didn't know it only came with a 2.2 ecotec? You do understand what the timing chain tensioner does right? If this component becomes weak, your timing chain becomes slack and breaks or skip a tooth(jumps timing, interference engine). There was also the issue with the chain oilers on the 2.2L L61, When you bought a new chain and guide kit it came with the redesigned oiler. If one installed both the tensioner and oiler, these ecotec timing chains can easily go 150-200K. Try that with a timing belt. 

A timing chain service life is more than double that of a timing belt, think most recommend 200K or consider it a lifetime part. Surprised someone who likes the timing belt would buy a 1.4T over a 1.8L.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Back in the 80's, Honda dealers were charging 600 bucks to change that 17 buck belt. Seems like my entire family switched to Honda's including me, got a bit fed up with GM back then. So would spend a Saturday changing a belt for relatives, but did take us out to dinner that night.

But in the mid-90's when GM started getting their act back together and these Japanese cars were really going to crap, most of us switched back to domestic. With the Ecotec, changing the oil at recommended intervals, and using a good synthetic oil, never had problems with the timing chain. 

Road salt is still a major problem for us, as the so-called head of the family, suggested we all move down south. Kids are willing, but their spouses are not, don't want to leave their families. And I don't want to leave my grandkids. Japanese cars are even worse than domestics for rust, but for some really strange reason, doesn't seem to hurt their resell value.

Can only contribute this to where people are not very wise going back to the 80's when they were making good cars.


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