# The dreaded DEF CEL



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Should be covered under your bumper to bumper, thankfully.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Yeah, no problem there. But I am seriously worried about the long term cost/reliability of this car. When it is out of warranty, every day will be one day closer to some big $$ problem I feel. Hopefully I am dead wrong. I have been in the shop 3 times in 30k. Now here's number 4.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I might be wrong - but it seems like once the original DEF reservoir gets replaced, if it fails, the new part number does not seem to fail.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> Yeah, no problem there. But I am seriously worried about the long term cost/reliability of this car. When it is out of warranty, every day will be one day closer to some big $$ problem I feel. Hopefully I am dead wrong. I have been in the shop 3 times in 30k. Now here's number 4.


Hopefully your experience becomes more like mine. It's not been perfect, but relatively trouble free for 190K miles. I haven't needed to replace any emissions related parts in over 128K miles.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MOTO13 said:


> Yeah, no problem there. But I am seriously worried about the long term cost/reliability of this car. When it is out of warranty, every day will be one day closer to some big $$ problem I feel. Hopefully I am dead wrong. I have been in the shop 3 times in 30k. Now here's number 4.


I understand and share your concern, I have almost 20k miles on a 15, one of the last ones built, and I have had no issues yet, but still concerns me when I hear others having what seem to be pretty stupid issues in my opinion.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

MOTO13 said:


> Started the car after work...noticed the friggin CEL light all of a sudden. I turned off the car and said...no fkn way. Started it it again, it popped back on. I started to drive home and in about 1-2 miles the DIC reads...SERVICE EXHAUST FLUID SYSTEM. Then the DIC changes and says 78 MILES UNTIL 65 mph MAX SPEED. Def is full, no problem there. Called the dealer on my way home. can't get in until Thursday. There are 31,000 on the car. I haven't any any issues since the last issue with the NOX sensor about 20,000 miles ago or so.


Hi there MOTO13,

We're sorry about this check engine light concern you're experiencing with your Cruze, but we're glad to hear that your dealership will be addressing this for you. If you need any additional assistance as you work with your dealership, please don't hesitate to send us a private message and we'd be happy to help!

Sincerely,

Chelsea D.
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

The CTD is a good car. But it just seems...and maybe it's just me...I SERIOUSLY worry about the problems once out of warranty. There is nothing on this car that will be what i consider an easy or inexpensive fix if problems arise. Has GM done anything about extending the warranty on these cars? Is the DEF exhaust, and related systems, covered under the 100k power train warranty? I guess I am unclear exactly what happens at 36k miles as far as warranty coverage.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

MOTO13 said:


> Is the DEF exhaust, and related systems, covered under the 100k power train warranty?


Unless you have an awesome dealer, no.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Once I get this car back from the dealer...anyone looking for a CTD is SE Wisconsin???...lol.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks for all the info guys...and gals. Hopefully it will be a minor deal and all will go smoothly. I'll keep you posted for sure. Kind of upset to hear the DEF system warranty ends at 36k. I mean, the car won't function without it operating properly.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> Thanks for all the info guys...and gals. Hopefully it will be a minor deal and all will go smoothly. I'll keep you posted for sure. Kind of upset to hear the DEF system warranty ends at 36k. I mean, the car won't function without it operating properly.


Just out of curiosity, how low did you let it go in between top-ups?


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I fill it (DEF) regularly. As best as I can recall, I used only one kind def...Blue Def. I have used Kwik Trip premium diesel for literally every fill up except one. I have never used additives of any type...made no modifications.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> I fill it (DEF) regularly. As best as I can recall, I used only one kind def...Blue Def. I have used Kwik Trip premium diesel for literally every fill up except one. I have never used additives of any type...made no modifications.


So, you never let it go low enough to get the warning on the DIC?


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Nope...never seen any DEF cel or warning of any type until the other day.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

I always run my down to the 100 Mile Warning so I get a fresh fill. Don't know if it makes a difference, but I've never seen a CEL and I just blew through 53K Miles.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

sailurman said:


> I always run my down to the 100 Mile Warning so I get a fresh fill. Don't know if it makes a difference, but I've never seen a CEL and I just blew through 53K Miles.


There is an ongoing theory that running the DEF down to that stage could cause the premature DEF heater failure. No correlation yet, so just in the "collecting data" phase.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

A fresh fill of DEF really doesn't make any sense to me. DEF has no shelf life (or use by date) from my understanding. Kind of like motor oil really, so if it's 2 years old or 10 minutes old, same DEF.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Wish we had better more complete information to determine correlations. I am at 19700 miles and only been on free changes, have one more at 24000 miles. So far the dealer tops off the def at each change. With last two changes being between 6500-7500 miles it took about two gallons to top off, so it has never been below half full. No issues of any kind yet. It shouldn't matter when it is filled, just makes me wonder if it matter or not how much fluid is in tank?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> The CTD is a good car. But it just seems...and maybe it's just me...I SERIOUSLY worry about the problems once out of warranty. There is nothing on this car that will be what i consider an easy or inexpensive fix if problems arise. Has GM done anything about extending the warranty on these cars? Is the DEF exhaust, and related systems, covered under the 100k power train warranty? I guess I am unclear exactly what happens at 36k miles as far as warranty coverage.


from memory it seems its 3k bumper then 80k emissions 100k power then 100k?? rust? they make emissions and power separate so we pay out of pocket. once power ttain is up a delete is in order on a first big emissions repair


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Same here. I have never added more than 2 gallons to my tank.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Ok pandrad, first thank you for replying. But...I need you to break that down into one coherent thought please. I got a nose bleed trying to understand your reply.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

MOTO13 said:


> A fresh fill of DEF really doesn't make any sense to me. DEF has no shelf life (or use by date) from my understanding. Kind of like motor oil really, so if it's 2 years old or 10 minutes old, same DEF.


That is as far from the truth as it could be. Diesel Exhaust Fluid is actually very sensitive to light, and heat. It has a shelf life of 2 years or less depending on how it is stored. It's life will be shortened if stored over 80 degrees F. There is a expiration date printed on every container of DEF. In the owners manual GM states to refill the tank every oil change interval, so thats what I do. Didn't seem to help me though, as I already had my reservoir replaced due to the heater. The heater elements do not go directly into the DEF, so it shouldn't make a difference with the heater.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Good information. I also read if stored at 70 degrees or so, it will last almost 4 years. I guess my point was, no problems could be caused or stopped by just constantly topping it off to maintain a fresh DEF supply in our tanks. I usually topped it off at my oil change and also between changes, adding if I had some left from the last time just to empty the bottle.

I bet GM is glad, at least with this Gen 1 diesel, they didn't sell any more than they did. I can't imagine if they had 100,000 or more of these on the road.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> from memory it seems its 3k bumper then 80k emissions 100k power then 100k?? rust? they make emissions and power separate so we pay out of pocket. once power ttain is up a delete is in order on a first big emissions repair



Special Coverage 3817007/02/201521 MI07/02/2025120,021 MI Chevrolet 2 Year Scheduled Maintenance07/02/201521 MI07/02/201724,021 MIPowertrain Limited Warranty07/02/201521 MI07/02/2020100,021 MIEmission Select Component Ltd Wty07/02/201521 MI07/02/202380,021 MIBumper to Bumper Limited Warranty07/02/201521 MI07/02/201836,021 MICorrosion Limited Warranty07/02/201521 MI07/02/2021100,021 MI


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> The CTD is a good car. But it just seems...and maybe it's just me...I SERIOUSLY worry about the problems once out of warranty. There is nothing on this car that will be what i consider an easy or inexpensive fix if problems arise. Has GM done anything about extending the warranty on these cars? Is the DEF exhaust, and related systems, covered under the 100k power train warranty? I guess I am unclear exactly what happens at 36k miles as far as warranty coverage.
> 
> from memory it seems its 3k bumper then 80k emissions 100k power then 100k?? rust? they make emissions and power separate so we pay out of pocket. once power ttain is up a delete is in order on a first big emissions repair


i was stating that they have NOT extended emissions so its inferior to powers-train that's 100k. bumper to bumper covers all emissions, yet actual emissions warrenty don't cover the whole system.... that whole system if part of power train yet gm only covers "select components" the Gm warranty is Piss poor and even worse on the gen 2 cruze


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Got the call, car's done. Picking it up tonight. From what i was told, a complete DEF tank/system replacement as well as associated other things that do stuff. I'll give details tomorrow.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

MOTO13 said:


> Got the call, car's done. Picking it up tonight. From what i was told, a complete DEF tank/system replacement as well as associated other things that do stuff. I'll give details tomorrow.



Did they do the NoX sensor and the firmware update too?


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Had to work late last night so I couldn't pu the car as intended. I am picking it up tonight. If someone knows how to post a pic on site here, I can send them the service ticket outlining exactly what was done so everyone here can see it without my BS explanation screwing it up.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> Had to work late last night so I couldn't pu the car as intended. I am picking it up tonight. If someone knows how to post a pic on site here, I can send them the service ticket outlining exactly what was done so everyone here can see it without my BS explanation screwing it up.


upload to imgur, paste here


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Call me stoopid, but what the f is imgur?


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

You got lucky! 

I think if you guys have the option, you should consider an extended warranty that will cover emissions before your Bumper to Bumper expires. Choose your deductible, but be sure to understand that there usually is a deductible.

I still have 10k miles of extended and am really hoping that everything that can break, has broken. HPFP, DEF res, 02, nox, etc etc etc...

Glad to be finding more TD cruzers in SE Wisconsin! I was over in the elkhorn area last week


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

How much is the extended warranty? You should have stopped in for a beer...or Jack...or tequila...or schnapps...


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

It depends on who is selling it. Lynch in Kenosha sells one that is a lot more comprehensive than a GMPP. On a 13 Malibu I think it ended up being about $1600 with $100 deductible? This was 5 years 75k miles.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Should be able to click this to add a picture.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks diesel.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

kmfinley93 said:


> It depends on who is selling it. Lynch in Kenosha sells one that is a lot more comprehensive than a GMPP. On a 13 Malibu I think it ended up being about $1600 with $100 deductible? This was 5 years 75k miles.


Yikes that's a lot. I will take my chances.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I can't download the service ticket. It's a PDF. 

Op Code: 11CVZZEN

p20b9 engine code and p0133 o2 sensor code

Heater one internal failure and o2 saturated with soot

replaced reductant tank heater one and o2 bank sensor one. Clear codes

23377881 reservoir kit and 12644786 sensor (part numbers)

Then they did a Product emission recall also.

Op Code: 9101952

15594: ZPER NOx Position 1 sensor replacement...concern

replaced NOx sensor Position 1. Performed test and regen

12662658 part number

I'd rather show the actual sheet but can't get it upload since it's a PDF.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> I can't download the service ticket. It's a PDF.
> 
> Op Code: 11CVZZEN
> 
> ...


imgur accepts pdfs

or screenshot the pdf and upload


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I left my phone at home. I feel like a fkn retard.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> I left my phone at home. I feel like a fkn retard.


fn+printscreen>open paint>ctrl+v=screenshot


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)




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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> View attachment 209618


Can you try that one more time? For some reason it lost resolution and isn't really readable.


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