# Redline way to high vs powerband



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

when doing some runs it feels like the auto just shifts way too late in the revs for where the diesel powerband is. Anything after 4K feels like a old man with COPD trying to push air out a straw. If I manual shift and keep it in the 3,700 max it feels like it accelerates better. Anyone else feel the same?


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

No.
















LOL


----------



## Elijah445 (Jan 26, 2021)

Lol homie said “No.”, these engines diesel or not power curve drop off at 4K. You got get really any power after that.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Elijah445 said:


> Lol homie said “No.”, these engines diesel or not power curve drop off at 4K. You got get really any power after that.


Yep for sure. I think after like 4200 drops off on the 1.4 gaser.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Elijah445 said:


> Lol homie said “No.”, these engines diesel or not power curve drop off at 4K. You got get really any power after that.


Actually homie LOL....the 1.4 LE2 has peak torque til 4000rpm, and peak power doesn't happen til past 5500rpm. (The Gen1 1.4 has peak hp well past 4k rpm as well.)

And of course there's the whole "my post was a joke" portion of it


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

The Aisin 6 spd auto in the 1st gen diesel Cruze allows the engine to rev past the useable power band. It gives the car a poor acceleration and feel at WOT, especially when at highway speed passing. 

You have to back off the throttle to get trans to upshift then put back about 3/4 throttle to get more acceleration. Or manual shift, but that's not the most responsive either.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

TDCruze said:


> The Aisin 6 spd auto in the 1st gen diesel Cruze allows the engine to rev past the useable power band. It gives the car a poor acceleration and feel at WOT, especially when at highway speed passing.
> 
> You have to back off the throttle to get trans to upshift then put back about 3/4 throttle to get more acceleration. Or manual shift, but that's not the most responsive either.


Definitely the manual shift is far from great. Between shift denied and when near redline it will take ages to shift up after you told it to, it makes a great engine feel dogish


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Just cause our 2.0 CAN rev to 5k does it mean that’s where the shift point should be? I haven’t seen a dyno sheet of a stock 2.0 but I doubt much of its hp/Tq are pst 4K.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

@Ma v e n don't sound like no homie to me.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Peak power being at right around 4k, it would make sense, but I'd have to look at where it "drops you off" in the next gear - you might still be in a higher level of peak power shifting at 4500 rpm compared to shifting early, if that makes sense.










That all said - with torque management in the first, what, 2 or 3 gears, shifting early might be quite useful since you wouldn't have that same benefit.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Elijah445 said:


> Lol homie said “No.”, these engines diesel or not power curve drop off at 4K. You got get really any power after that.


Welcome aboard!

Rough crowd today huh?


Don't forget to introduce yourself and your Cruze here.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Peak power being at right around 4k, it would make sense, but I'd have to look at where it "drops you off" in the next gear - you might still be in a higher level of peak power shifting at 4500 rpm compared to shifting early, if that makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tq management interference could very well be a big factor. By the graph HP starts to drop off at roughly 3K and HP 3-4K it’s relatively flat. Well I’ll see if the trifecta tune does a big change in feel. At stock it just feels to not advance as quickly in higher RPMS


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Tq management interference could very well be a big factor. By the graph HP starts to drop off at roughly 3K and HP 3-4K it’s relatively flat. Well I’ll see if the trifecta tune does a big change in feel. At stock it just feels to not advance as quickly in higher RPMS


You mean torque drops off - horsepower peaks at 4k, which is probably why it runs up there.

I'd have to pay attention to the shift points, but I don't honestly notice a big reduction in torque management like it implied, at least not off the line - but that could just be the turbo lag.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> You mean torque drops off - horsepower peaks at 4k, which is probably why it runs up there.
> 
> I'd have to pay attention to the shift points, but I don't honestly notice a big reduction in torque management like it implied, at least not off the line - but that could just be the turbo lag.


I wouldn’t think the turbo lag be to bad on a modern VGT turbo but then again I’ve been wrong. Yes sorry wrong wording


----------



## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

pandrad61 said:


> when doing some runs it feels like the auto just shifts way too late in the revs for where the diesel powerband is. Anything after 4K feels like a old man with COPD trying to push air out a straw. If I manual shift and keep it in the 3,700 max it feels like it accelerates better. Anyone else feel the same?


General rule is always shift at peak or max power to achieve maximum acceleration.

Based on the graph that was posted I'd say your right on point. Shifting at 4k should then drop the engine speed into the max torque range pulling until max power is achieved and ultimately until all gears are exhausted.

With that being said I have no complaints with how this engine/transmission is setup compared to other 4 bangers I have had.

It is geared to run around 2k at highway speeds which explains why it has plenty of pep. Also torque to not be downshifting at every slight incline like most 4 bangers seem to do.

I believe you can monitor transmission applied torque with torque app/biscan/gretio.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

On track I find 2900 to 3500 is the prime spot (it may be a little different with my delete than stock) and then when I run out of gears it feels like it sort of dies around 4000+ like you're saying. I feel that may be due to the turbo not able to push enough CFMs.. it has boost but can't flow enough... makes you wonder what would happen with a sequential turbo setup... I like the small turbo because of the quick go but more is definitely needed at the top


----------



## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

shimmy816 said:


> On track I find 2900 to 3500 is the prime spot (it may be a little different with my delete than stock) and then when I run out of gears it feels like it sort of dies around 4000+ like you're saying. I feel that may be due to the turbo not able to push enough CFMs.. it has boost but can't flow enough... makes you wonder what would happen with a sequential turbo setup... I like the small turbo because of the quick go but more is definitely needed at the top


It would be most interesting to put your car on a dyno to see when the peak hp and torque occur.

I would think being deleted (I'm jealous BTW) would push all your numbers higher but I guess it would depend on wether your tune is for efficiency or power.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

shimmy816 said:


> On track I find 2900 to 3500 is the prime spot (it may be a little different with my delete than stock) and then when I run out of gears it feels like it sort of dies around 4000+ like you're saying. I feel that may be due to the turbo not able to push enough CFMs.. it has boost but can't flow enough... makes you wonder what would happen with a sequential turbo setup... I like the small turbo because of the quick go but more is definitely needed at the top


The LUZ is limited by fuel. The stock injectors don’t flow enough to use all the boost the stock turbo can deliver with tuning. You should be able to get another smoke-free 20 hp with uprated custom injectors. I believe custom injectors are available for $3k plus core charge and then a retune charge if you could even find someone willing to re-do the tune.

I wondered if the injectors for the Biturbo 2.0 CDTI would work in the LUZ as they are rated at 195 BHP in their stock form. New Original Bosch / Opel Injector 0445117018 / 55565209 - Turbo Diesel UK




15cruzediesel said:


> It would be most interesting to put your car on a dyno to see when the peak hp and torque occur.
> 
> I would think being deleted (I'm jealous BTW) would push all your numbers higher but I guess it would depend on wether your tune is for efficiency or power.


The OZ tuned car I’ve driven was all midrange power. It was very strong from 2000-3500 but didn’t have much above that.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Fleece used to sell larger injectors, but doesn't look like they even sell those anymore, either.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> The LUZ is limited by fuel. The stock injectors don’t flow enough to use all the boost the stock turbo can deliver with tuning. You should be able to get another smoke-free 20 hp with uprated custom injectors. I believe custom injectors are available for $3k plus core charge and then a retune charge if you could even find someone willing to re-do the tune.
> 
> I wondered if the injectors for the Biturbo 2.0 CDTI would work in the LUZ as they are rated at 195 BHP in their stock form. New Original Bosch / Opel Injector 0445117018 / 55565209 - Turbo Diesel UK
> 
> ...


For 3k those injectors are close to half of the cost of the Cruze. I’d like to push it but that’s too much of a ask. Plus how much more can the stock trans handle?


----------



## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

pandrad61 said:


> For 3k those injectors are close to half of the cost of the Cruze. I’d like to push it but that’s too much of a ask. Plus how much more can the stock trans handle?


See my signature, it’s a manual transmission though and more is coming!


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Cruzin2011 said:


> See my signature, it’s a manual transmission though and more is coming!


“2011 Cruze Eco... 243HP & 228TQ. All ZZP parts... CAI, V3 turbo, 42# injectors, down pipe, mid pipe FMIC and coil pack.”
This sounds like a gasser not a diesel.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> For 3k those injectors are close to half of the cost of the Cruze. I’d like to push it but that’s too much of a ask. Plus how much more can the stock trans handle?


I don't mind the cost of the injectors relative to the value of the vehicle, but what the trans can handle is definitely the big issue.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I don't mind the cost of the injectors relative to the value of the vehicle, but what the trans can handle is definitely the big issue.


For me upgrading has to make sense. For 3k that upgrade better be **** amazing and really bring a lot to the table. If day new stock opens where 2,000-2,300 then yah makes total sense but to shell out 3k for another 20hp, I can’t justify it. 3k can entirely reupholster the interior, upgrade the stereo and leave cash left over for performance rubber.


----------



## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

pandrad61 said:


> “2011 Cruze Eco... 243HP & 228TQ. All ZZP parts... CAI, V3 turbo, 42# injectors, down pipe, mid pipe FMIC and coil pack.”
> This sounds like a gasser not a diesel.


It gets out of its own way that’s for sure !


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> For me upgrading has to make sense. For 3k that upgrade better be **** amazing and really bring a lot to the table. If day new stock opens where 2,000-2,300 then yah makes total sense but to shell out 3k for another 20hp, I can’t justify it. 3k can entirely reupholster the interior, upgrade the stereo and leave cash left over for performance rubber.


I'd expect it can add far more than 20HP. Supporting mods can tend to cost money like that, even if they're not the most exciting. If it allows you to utilize a larger turbo, then it's well worth it.

That's all ignoring the fact the trans has probably exploded by then.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Cruzin2011 said:


> It gets out of its own way that’s for sure !


Ehh soso. Cruze is still narrow rubber in road and with a open diff. While 225 hp/Tq is very respectable in a economy car I’d be way more impressed if it had a LSD.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I'd expect it can add far more than 20HP. Supporting mods can tend to cost money like that, even if they're not the most exciting. If it allows you to utilize a larger turbo, then it's well worth it.
> 
> That's all ignoring the fact the trans has probably exploded by then.


As far as I know there is no performance parts for a rebuild. So basically good fluid and a big cooler is as far as we can go.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> As far as I know there is no performance parts for a rebuild. So basically good fluid and a big cooler is as far as we can go.


Yep - there were the larger injectors and the wicked wheel - and presumably you could swap to a larger turbo (though custom) with a delete, but that all kinda went bye-bye the second they cracked down on deletes or any kind of non-stock tuning. Trifecta wouldn't even tune for the short-ram intake.


----------



## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

pandrad61 said:


> Ehh soso. Cruze is still narrow rubber in road and with a open diff. While 225 hp/Tq is very respectable in a economy car I’d be way more impressed if it had a LSD.


That is not out of the picture, I have done everything to the outside of the engine. In a few weeks I’m doing valve springs, titanium retainers and a cam swap... I also hope to have a water/methanol injection kit set up so they can tune it while I am there.

I’m really curious what It is going to make with the new modifications.

I absolutely need to get bigger front brakes done and they haven’t test fit the Sonic Brembo kit on the Cruze ye. I told him I will buy them when they become available again as long as they’re no restocking fee if they don’t fit.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Just curious do you have stock fuel flow for the luz injectors? one of the companies that was trying to tune diesel cruze back before they figured out it would not be profitable after dieselgate ruined it, found that the fuel system should hold up to about 250hp. I guess they did this through dyno-ing and watching the fuel pressure to see if the system starved? with flow rate I guess a solid awnser should be possible.. maybe someone who is better with the math can speak up.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

shimmy816 said:


> Just curious do you have stock fuel flow for the luz injectors? one of the companies that was trying to tune diesel cruze back before they figured out it would not be profitable after dieselgate ruined it, found that the fuel system should hold up to about 250hp. I guess they did this through dyno-ing and watching the fuel pressure to see if the system starved? with flow rate I guess a solid awnser should be possible.. maybe someone who is better with the math can speak up.


I'd contact tuners in the EU to get answers to these questions. The Opel Astra 2.0 Biturbo can be tuned to support 240 HP. I suspect the Biturbo and Cruze A20DTH share many common components including bosch HPCR system but with higher flow injectors.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Yep - there were the larger injectors and the wicked wheel - and presumably you could swap to a larger turbo (though custom) with a delete, but that all kinda went bye-bye the second they cracked down on deletes or any kind of non-stock tuning. Trifecta wouldn't even tune for the short-ram intake.











GTB1756vk hybrid turbocharger for gen1 Chevy Cruse 2.0CDTi A20DTH | XmanTurbos


GTB1756vk MFS 230-250bhp bolt on hybrid turbocharger for gen1 Chevy Cruse 2.0 diesel LUZ engine and 2.0CDTI A20DTH Vauxhaul/Opel Insignia/Astra It's a 100% direct bolt on upgrade the stock GTB1649v turbo is fitted with GTB1756vk 2.7TDI CR190 internals and 56mm CNC cut performance billet...




www.xmanturbos.com


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

shimmy816 said:


> Just curious do you have stock fuel flow for the luz injectors? one of the companies that was trying to tune diesel cruze back before they figured out it would not be profitable after dieselgate ruined it, found that the fuel system should hold up to about 250hp. I guess they did this through dyno-ing and watching the fuel pressure to see if the system starved? with flow rate I guess a solid awnser should be possible.. maybe someone who is better with the math can speak up.











General Motors A20DTH tuningstages and options by KCPerformance (ID-EN-6)


Tuningstages and options for A20DTH by KCPerformance (ID-EN-6)




kcperformance.eu


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

pandrad61 said:


> “2011 Cruze Eco... 243HP & 228TQ. All ZZP parts... CAI, V3 turbo, 42# injectors, down pipe, mid pipe FMIC and coil pack.”
> This sounds like a gasser not a diesel.


That sounds like advertising math not actual results.


----------

