# Front end alignment after new struts - yes or no?



## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

If the lower strut attaching bolts are the camber adjusters, I'd say yes. 

One time a friend wrecked his car when he got hit in a front wheel, buckling a strut, and gave it to me. I straightened the fender with a 2x6, replaced the strut, adjusted it until the steering wheel was centered again, and drove it home. But that doesn't help if you didn't test drive each strut individually when you replace two.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Anytime a steering or suspension part is changed. Alignment is part of the job.

It's also a yearly maintenance thing.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Firestone Lifetime Alignment for every car!


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

There are no methods available to adjust caster or camber. The only adjustable component are the tie rod ends for toe in.
The rear trailing axle also has no available adjustment.

So, the only way camber could be adjusted is to hog out the mounting holes where the strut attaches to the spindle and the only way caster could be adjusted is to hog out the upper strut mount holes.

All that to say you only need to verify and adjust toe in after a strut change.

Rob


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

snowwy66 said:


> Anytime a steering or suspension part is changed. Alignment is part of the job.
> 
> It's also a yearly maintenance thing.


Can you show us where Alignment is a required maintenance yearly, that's a first


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Eddy Cruze said:


> Can you show us where Alignment is a required maintenance yearly, that's a first


It's one of many things you learn in automotive class. Along with tire rotation. 

There's a lot of firsts the general public don't know about.

Think about it. Why would you keep driving and not maximize your tire wear. Every bump and pot hole you hit. Knocks your car out. And you all know that parts don't last forever. Including your steering components. Part of having an alignment is making sure your components are still tight. You don't get an accurate alignment with worn out parts.

If you want your car to last. It needs to be maintained. If you want your tires to last. They need to be aligned and rotated.

ONly problem with alignments. Tough to find a guy that knows what he's doing. As evidenced in one post on here with the guy who now has a crooked steering wheel and a alignment pull.


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## dieseldr (Jul 28, 2018)

Rob,
Thanks, makes sense. The steering and suspension on this car looks very simple, compared to the other vehicles I maintain.
I can't imagine much that would effect the toe except component wear or mechanical damage.
So we will have it checked out, see how much it changed in 61k miles.
Dieseldr


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'd get an alignment after changing struts, or any of the major suspension components.

Even despite Michigan roads, none of our cars get any kind of yearly alignment and have no issues with being misaligned. Unless you hit something so big (which will likely cause other kinds of damage), that suspension really isn't going to move out of alignment.

I do rotate tires on a regular basis on our vehicles, though. Most of the time it works out perfectly with having all-seasons for spring/summer/fall and winter tires for, well, winter. Generally the mileage put on during the winter is right around enough for me to be able to rotate them when I install them the next time. The all-seasons generally require a rotation sometime before taking them off, depending on vacations/extra driving.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Not everything is printed in the owners manual. 

Just because it isn't printed. Doesn't mean it don't need it.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'd get an alignment after changing struts, or any of the major suspension components.
> 
> Even despite Michigan roads, none of our cars get any kind of yearly alignment and have no issues with being misaligned. Unless you hit something so big (which will likely cause other kinds of damage), that suspension really isn't going to move out of alignment.
> 
> I do rotate tires on a regular basis on our vehicles, though. Most of the time it works out perfectly with having all-seasons for spring/summer/fall and winter tires for, well, winter. Generally the mileage put on during the winter is right around enough for me to be able to rotate them when I install them the next time. The all-seasons generally require a rotation sometime before taking them off, depending on vacations/extra driving.


Over time it all adds up. 

My car came from the factory at the outter edge of alignment. 

And here's something most of you probably don't know. 

Alignment flexes out as your driving down the road. The faster you go. The farther the flex. 

My car came at the maxed spec. Now take in to consideration the flex. I"m basically driving down the road out of alignment. From the factory.

Probably not now as I already took care of it.

2000 miles for it's first alignment.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

I completely disagree with cars needing an alignment every year. Completely unfounded. Personally I get lifetime alignments on my vehicles because I don't change vehicles very often and it's cheaper this way. A car will tell you when it needs an alignment through handling, vibration, and especially tire wear. Don't waste $100 a year on alignments. Be smart and do your tire balancing and rotations at the recommended intervals and monitor your wear...this tells you about small alignment issues. The car will tell you about bigger issues.


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

I take my cars in every 15k miles or so. I also have lifetime alignments at Firestone and its been the best investment ever.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

sailurman said:


> I completely disagree with cars needing an alignment every year. Completely unfounded. Personally I get lifetime alignments on my vehicles because I don't change vehicles very often and it's cheaper this way. A car will tell you when it needs an alignment through handling, vibration, and especially tire wear. Don't waste $100 a year on alignments. Be smart and do your tire balancing and rotations at the recommended intervals and monitor your wear...this tells you about small alignment issues. The car will tell you about bigger issues.


Ummm no. It won't. Unless you plan on waiting till it's too late. 

The machine will tell you long before tire wear. To which most people won't even notice the beginning stages. 

Yearly maintenance is completely founded. 

An alignment can be slightly off. And take a few thousand miles to notice tire wear. Without the slightest pull. 

Tire rotations are recommended for a reason. Alignment checks are also recommended for a reason.

Don't wait till tires show. That just cuts down on the lifespan. And tires aren't cheap. 

Alignments around here are $60.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Agree to disagree on this one. However, I would love to see a link to a manufacturer recommending periodic wheel alignments in their service schedules. :th_salute:


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## eddiefromcali (Aug 21, 2017)

sailurman said:


> Agree to disagree on this one. However, I would love to see a link to a manufacturer recommending periodic wheel alignments in their service schedules. :th_salute:


You're welcome 

https://my.gmc.com/content/dam/gmow...evrolet/cruze/2014_chevrolet_cruze_owners.pdf

Page 319/420 

Tires should be rotated every
12 000 km (7,500 mi). See
_Maintenance Schedule on
__page 11-2_.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

sailurman said:


> Agree to disagree on this one. However, I would love to see a link to a manufacturer recommending periodic wheel alignments in their service schedules. <img src="http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/images/smilies/th_salute.gif" border="0" alt="" title="th_salute" class="inlineimg" />


Disagree all you want. You can wait till your tires tell you it's time. That's your choice.

I went to school. Attended moog and Borg classes. Done 100's alignments. 

I went to school and learned lots of things you won't find in a manufactures manual. Earned my degree and various licenses.

Do you disagree with mechanics at shops too?

Somewhere on this forum someone posted a article for periodic alignment checks. 

But it's your disagreement. Carry on as you will.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Robby said:


> So, the only way camber could be adjusted is to hog out the mounting holes where the strut attaches to the spindle and the only way caster could be adjusted is to hog out the upper strut mount holes.


When did GM quit using eccentric bolts in the spindle mounts?

I know X bodies and A bodies had them but that was last century.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> It's one of many things you learn in automotive class. Along with tire rotation.
> 
> There's a lot of firsts the general public don't know about.
> 
> ...


50 yrs ago, sure....

im sure the same class taught greasing the components

how many nipples on the car today?


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## dieseldr (Jul 28, 2018)

I was curious about the camber adjustment, so went and dug out the HELM manuals I bought for the car. 
You do have to enlarge one hole (per side) to get some camber/caster adjustment! (Rob wins!!)
Very weird.

HELM service manual #5, page 16-99:

FRONT CAMBER ADJUSTMENT

4 remove strut assy. from vehicle
5 put it in a soft jaw vise
6 enlarge the inner hole (1) to match the outer hole (2)
(drawing in manual shows the bottom hole for this)

7 install strut assy. on vehicle
8 adjust the camber specification by moving the top of the wheel in or out 
(drawing shows a guy pulling on the wheel)

(not doing this, unless the Bilsteins we just put on are manufactured way out of spec.)


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

See manual listed above......page 10-62.....wheel alignment and tire balance.

Moog makes parts, GM makes cars....who do you think should know best how/when service is called for?
A parts company or a auto manufacturer.

A car manufacturer has little to gain by telling a owner not to perform services unless the vehicle displays a need.

Rob


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Oh, I see!!!

"Wheel Alignment and TireBalanceThe tires and wheels were alignedand balanced at the factory toprovide the longest tire life and bestoverall performance. *Adjustments towheel alignment and tire balancingare not necessary on a regularbasis.* Consider an alignment checkif there is unusual tire wear or thevehicle is significantly pulling to oneside or the other. Some slight pull tothe left or right, depending on thecrown of the road and/or other roadChevrolet Cruze Owner Manual (GMNA-Localizing-U.S./Canada-6007168) - Black plate (63,1) 2014 - 2nd Edition - 7/15/13Vehicle Care 10-63surface variations such as troughsor ruts, is normal. If the vehicle isvibrating when driving on a smoothroad, the tires and wheels may needto be rebalanced. See your dealerfor proper diagnosis

You're welcome:signs065:


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Wait, maybe this is it:

"Anytime unusual wear isnoticed, rotate the tires as soonas possible, check for proper tireinflation pressure, and check fordamaged tires or wheels. If theunusual wear continues after therotation, check the wheelalignment."

Oh, wait.... :th_SmlyROFL:


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

snowwy66 said:


> Disagree all you want. You can wait till your tires tell you it's time. That's your choice.
> 
> I went to school. Attended moog and Borg classes. Done 100's alignments.
> 
> ...


*Do you disagree with mechanics at shops too?
*You're damned straight I do. Anybody that doesn't research and question their mechanic (unless he/she is a trusted mechanic...which is rare these days) is an idiot. I don't question your knowledge, skills, or education. All I'm saying that is today you are wrong. Unless I actually hit something, I haven't had an alignment out of SPEC in the last 20 years. Today alignments are a reactive maintenance and lo longer a preventive maintenance. Good Day to you to sir.

P.S. "Attended moog and Borg classes", sure...anytime I change parts in the suspension I'd do an alignment.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

boraz said:


> snowwy66 said:
> 
> 
> > It's one of many things you learn in automotive class. Along with tire rotation.
> ...


50 years ago zirks were going bye bye. But replacement parts still came with em.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Here you go

Your mechanic will typically recommend doing the wheel alignment every two-three years. Often, the wheel alignment is recommended when new tires are installed. The alignment should be done more often if your car has wider tires or if it's a sporty car, e.g. Audi, BMW, Mazda 3, Nissan 370Z, etc.

And other reasons why

https://www.testingautos.com/car_care/when-should-wheel-alignment-be-done.html


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> Here you go
> 
> Your mechanic will typically recommend doing the wheel alignment every two-three years. Often, the wheel alignment is recommended when new tires are installed. The alignment should be done more often if your car has wider tires or if it's a sporty car, e.g. Audi, BMW, Mazda 3, Nissan 370Z, etc.
> 
> ...


would you like fries with that?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

boraz said:


> would you like fries with that?


Not hungry. But you can have some.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> Not hungry. But you can have some.


maybe you missed my point

its upselling....its a profit center, thats why service mgrs get spiffs on convincing the customer to go for the add ons, brake fluid flush, etc...same with the fries at the fast food joint.


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## mike12 (Jul 2, 2017)

Just had to post my opinion about alignments. First, I totally agree that finding a technician that knows what he or she is doing is critical, close enough is not good enough now a days. I had a vehicle aligned once after a set of new front tires, guess what, one year later I had significant inner wear on one that would not pass inspection. Did not replace any parts or hit any holes in that year period(even though garage said I must have). They realigned, but charged me for a new tire.

Garages, whether dealers or private, push 4 wheel alignment, but why? Most rear ends can not be adjusted, and it seems that on many vehicles the only setting adjustable in the front is toe. When asked why I need a 4 wheel alignment when you can not adjust the rear, they say well that is all we do or no real answer. Then the cost, the $20 and $30 alignments are history, $70 - $90 is the new standard. That is significant money to spend if you are not showing any significant abnormal tire wear. I believe rotating tires every 5 - 6,000 miles is critical to tire wear longevity and allows you to see clearly how they are wearing. Unless you replace a steering part, inner and/or outer tie rods, or had an accident, I would not waste my money on an alignment unless I was showing significant abnormal tire wear.

Many places will do a courtesy "alignment check", that along with your actual tire wear will tell you if you need an alignment. I have a 2002 full size front wheel drive GM vehicle with 105,000 miles, never had an alignment, tires wear perfectly (knock on wood). Never had to replace any tie rods yet, hit many pot holes in 16 years, but the car tracks and the tires wear great. Get 50,000 miles out of Goodyear Integrity tires which are a reasonable cost, 50,000 miles tread wear tires. Also, had a Chrysler van with over 100,000 miles, never had it aligned, no problems with tire wear. Both vehicles were purchased new, so I knew the history. So, I have proof supporting not aligning every year. 

One last note, I found on previous vehicles that the type of tire seemed to affect how they wear on the edges, i.e., touring or non touring, I am thinking it has to do with the tread width. It seemed at one time, touring tires had a wider tread, than non-touring tires, so I usually try to stay with a tread width that's been working. Naturally, your driving habits will have a significant impact on tire wear. I am a supporter of not aligning every year, but do support visually checking" 2+ times per year to make sure your o.k.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

What he said:sigh:


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

boraz said:


> maybe you missed my point
> 
> its upselling....its a profit center, thats why service mgrs get spiffs on convincing the customer to go for the add ons, brake fluid flush, etc...same with the fries at the fast food joint.


Sorry. My bad.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Waiting for the tires to tell you to align the vehicle is insane. Once you wear the tires uneven. You can't get it back to normal. And now you've shortened the life of the tires. 

A 2wd alignment only measures the front. As you all know. And it's not a very fine tuned alignment. But it'll get the job done. 
A 4wd alignment would be more finely tuned as the machine considers the front measurement along with the back measurement. How all 4 tires are tracking with each other instead of just 2. Granted, the backs more then likely won't need adjustment. But the alignment will be more precise. Less chance of crooked steering wheel also. 

But never say backs will never be out of whack. I see cars all the time where teh backs aren't angled the same as the front. Pay attention to cars around you. Some are really easy to spot. 

HOWEVER. never say that the rear tires can't be adjusted. Some cars do have an adjustment. Or at least they did. And for those that don't. Google ALIGNMENT SHIMS. The round ones and not the horse shoe shaped shims. There's a pic of a shim being inserted in the back hub assembly. 

My favorite customers were those that didn't believe in alignments on a regular basis. Instead of a standard $60 alignment. They ended up with a repair bill. Because parts RUST. And freeze up. And no matter how much heat is used to try to free the adjustments. They just don't budge. Now you get new parts to get your vehicle back in to spec. May not be a big problem in the south. But in the north. It rains. And it snows. And there's salt on the ground.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

snowwy66 said:


> Waiting for the tires to tell you to align the vehicle is insane.
> HOWEVER. never say that the rear tires can't be adjusted. Some cars do have an adjustment. Or at least they did. And for those that don't. Google ALIGNMENT SHIMS. The round ones and not the horse shoe shaped shims. There's a pic of a shim being inserted in the back hub assembly.


*2011-2015 Chevy Cruze Alignment: Are You Calibrating The Steering Angle Sensor?*

Share Tweet
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Andrew Markel,*EDITOR, BRAKE & FRONT END MAGAZINE*
VIEW BIO 


The Chevy Cruze debuted as the replacement for the Cobalt. On the outside and under the hood, the Cruze is a big upgrade from the Cobalt. Underneath, however, the two cars have similar setups. In the six years, the Cruze has been on the road, it has proven to be a reliable vehicle for the most part, but it has had some suspension issues.
​*Front Suspension*










​The Cruze uses a strut setup like the Cobalt. The caster is not adjustable. Camber is adjusted by enlarging the lower bolt hole on the strut-to-knuckle mount. The inner hole should not be enlarged beyond that of the outer hole. Only four out of the 13 fasteners for the front suspension do not have a torque angle specification. It is critical to look up the specifications if you are replacing a control arm, ball joint or tie-rod end.
*Steering System*

The Cruze can come with conventional or electric power steering. Both systems use steering angle sensors mounted to the column that should be recalibrated after an alignment. Even if no change was made to the toe, check the data for the sensor. The external column-mounted steering angle sensor does not require centering very often. Centering of the steering angle sensor might be required if a module, steering angle sensor or column/rack is replaced. On models with electric power steering, the procedure will include steps so the module can relearn the end stops of the steering rack. If the procedure is not carried out, damage to the power steering system can occur. 









​The steering angle sensor centering procedure can be completed with a scan tool after the alignment angles have been adjusted. No matter what scan tool you use to carry out the procedure, it is critical that the parking brake be set. If the car has an automatic transmission, it must be in park. If these two steps are not followed, the procedure to calibrate the steering angle sensor will not be allowed to start.
Some 2011-’14 Chevrolet Cruze models equipped with electronic power steering (RPO code NJ0/NJ1) may have increased friction in the steering system. This could cause the steering wheel to stick in the straight-ahead position after driving long distances on a straight highway. The steering wheel can be turned, but it may require increased effort. GM had two fixes for the problem. On 2011-’12 models, the solution was to replace the steering rack under warranty if the customer was experiencing the problem, according to campaign 14232A. Also, GM released new software to improve steering performance on 2013-’14 models.

​*Rear Suspension*

The Cruze uses a semi-independent twist-beam rear suspension axle like on the Cobalt. The axle assembly attaches to the underbody through a rubber bushing and bracket located at the front of each integral trailing arm. The brackets are bolted to the underbody side rails. The axle structure itself maintains the geometrical relationship of the wheels relative to the centerline of the body.










What is new on the Cruz is a Watt’s linkage. The Watt’s linkage is used in the rear axle of the suspension for performance improvement. This method is intended to prevent relative sideways motion between the axle and body of the vehicle. Watt’s linkage approximates a vertical straight-line motion more closely and does so while locating the center of the axle rather than toward one side of the vehicle, as more commonly used when fitting a long Panhard rod. 
It consists of two horizontal equalizer beam links of equal length mounted at each side of the chassis. In-between these two links, a short center link is connected. The center of this center link — the point that is constrained in a straight-line motion — is mounted to the center of the equalizer beam support. All pivoting points are free to rotate in a vertical plane. Watt’s linkage can also be used to prevent axle movement in the longitudinal direction of the vehicle.
*Unlike the Cobalt, the rear suspension on the Cruze is not adjustable with shims. The position of the ABS sensor on the rear hub prevents the use of a shim. Installing a shim would pull the sensor away from the rotating hub ring and cause an ABS fault.* If the rear angles are out of tolerances, the rear axle has to be replaced.
*Recalls and TSBs*

The Cruze has been the victim of several high-profile recalls. Almost all of the steering column problems have been resolved in the field or on dealers’ lots. One problem specific to the Cruze has been noise generated by dry contact between the upper strut mount and the spring insulator.
On these vehicles, contact between the strut’s top mount and the splash shield may cause a squeak during normal steering maneuvers at temperatures less than approximately 35°F (2°C). Raise and support the vehicle until the tires are a few feet off the ground. Rotate the steering wheel to the right until it reaches full lock. When lubricating the strut, try to lubricate as much of the strut circumference as possible. On the left and right front strut, lubricate the rubber washer and top mount using aerosol heavy-duty silicone lubricant. Using the red straw provided, generously spray the lubricant between the top mount and the rubber splash shield.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Ok, my two cents. I find that the factory alignment is the best and if the car isn’t pulling or something seems off, I prefer to leave it alone, I have had very few alignments and I think if it ain’t broke don’t fix it and in this case if you try to fix it and someone isn’t qualified or equipment properly calibrated you may do more harm than good. In addition, alignment is just another profit center.

When I have had alignments, it was usually due to suspension parts being out of spec or near worn out, the best fix is to replace those parts and do an alignment.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Here's my factory aligned car after 2,000 miles. Notice the alignment says FAILED. This was tested by the dealer when they warranteed the battery in December. 









This is the car sitting still on the machine. Now imagine driving down the highway. With your alignment flexing outward at 70 mph. How much further it would be out.

Thank you for that informative post. @*Eddy Cruze. I didn't think about the sensor*


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Here's my factory aligned car after 2,000 miles. Notice the alignment says FAILED. This was tested by the dealer when they warranteed the battery in January.
> 
> View attachment 267047
> 
> ...


I have had one new car that needed aligned shortly after purchase, no big deal. I have owned many cars and I think I have had less than four or five alignments in 35 years of driving. Never had strange tire wear which is the problem with bad alignment


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> HOWEVER. never say that the rear tires can't be adjusted. Some cars do have an adjustment. Or at least they did. And for those that don't. Google ALIGNMENT SHIMS. The round ones and not the horse shoe shaped shims. There's a pic of a shim being inserted in the back hub assembly.


go ahead and adjust your non adjustable rear suspension.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> Here's my factory aligned car after 2,000 miles. Notice the alignment says FAILED. This was tested by the dealer when they warranteed the battery in December.
> 
> View attachment 267047
> 
> ...


You drove over one of those toe in/tire depth measuring machines. Developed about two blocks from my shop, they are talking dealerships into installing them (buying them) on the write up isle so incoming service customers must drive over it.

They say the machine turns alignments into a easy sell with a 80% take rate.
Trouble is, every car has a different toe spec and the machine has no way to determine type or brand so it is set up with a average acceptable toe range.
Not very scientific but highly effective at selling unneeded service and adding to the bottom line.

Rob


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Robby said:


> You drove over one of those toe in/tire depth measuring machines. Developed about two blocks from my shop, they are talking dealerships into installing them (buying them) on the write up isle so incoming service customers must drive over it.
> 
> They say the machine turns alignments into a easy sell with a 80% take rate.
> Trouble is, every car has a different toe spec and the machine has no way to determine type or brand so it is set up with a average acceptable toe range.
> ...


That supports my theory that if it ain’t broke leave it alone, if your not at the dealership I wouldn’t even know if they really do an alignment or not.


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