# Help: New Tires = Major Instability and Swaying in the Rear



## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

Hi all, hoping to get some feedback on a problem we're having with my girlfriend's Cruze.

I posted a thread a couple weeks back about the problem but more specifically looking for a part number.... The issue is this: she has a 2011 Cruze LT with ~ 60k miles. She recently got all 4 tires replaced (General Altimax RT43, OEM size) and has since noticed a very distinct feeling of swaying/unpredictable tracking from the back end. The problem only occurs after driving 30-40 miles +, and is much worse in corners than when driving straight. It feels incredibly unsafe, like the car is going to let loose and kick the rear out at any time.

To try addressing the problem so far I've replaced the rear right stabilizer bar (which was bent) as well as getting an alignment (specs posted below). I've tried adding +5 PSI to all of the tires to combat soft sidewalls, as well as dropping the PSI in case that would help. The additional PSI may have helped a bit, but definitely didn't get rid of the issue entirely.

Searching online, I've seen some evidence that this may be considered normal for new tires: mold lubricant + "tread squirm" from the longer treads. I have to say, I've never experienced anything quite like this and I've driven the car ~ 650 miles with the new tires and it hasn't seemed to improve. Do I just need to put more miles on it?

Any other ideas here? Is there a surefire way for a shop to test for a bad tire? The problem is when I take it back to the tire shop, they can't detect the issue because it takes such a long time to kick in (again, 30 + miles of driving). There were absolutely no issues that she noticed prior to getting the new tires installed...

Any help/advice would be much appreciated - I'm very much annoyed of it at this point, and it's terrifying for my GF on her 50 mile commute

Thanks, Joe


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## cdb09007 (Aug 7, 2013)

Can you drive 30+ miles and finish your drive at the tire shop? Have them get in the car then and witness the issue? Seems like something was off when they installed the tires.


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## RIXSTER (Apr 13, 2015)

First thing I would look at is if tires are directional and they are mounted backwards, or some tires have an "outside" written on sidewall. Weird that mileage has anything to do with it. Maybe once tires are heated up they get unstable, maybe take them back and get a different brand set.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I think one of the tires has internal damage to the belts. When they warm up the belts aren't being held in place.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Joe,
It's time to rethink this a bit.......I remember and responded to your last post.

This time you have added a clue, specifically the over 30 mile (meaning over thirty minutes) before the 'feeling' sets in.

About two years ago, many members started posting about a sticking type feeling after driving at steady speeds (highway...straightline) that would cause you to 'overcorrect'.........certainly would create sway.

It only occurs when on the highway, generally temperatures below 50 degrees......the steering behaves normally once off the highway, on surface streets, where you are turning the wheel often.

It seemed like the steering assist would 'Go to sleep' over long periods of minimal input (highway)

GM got enough complaints to issue a service bulletin and extend the warranty to 10 years/150000 miles. Bulletin# 14232....look it up.

I suspect this may be your issue.......the baggy old tires likely masked the stick condition......new, firm tires are revealing it......the bent rod was a coincidence.....not a cause.

Your alignment results are fine.

When you can, drive the car yourself again and see if the 'feeling' I'm trying to describe 'fits'

Report back,

Rob


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## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

cdb09007 said:


> Can you drive 30+ miles and finish your drive at the tire shop? Have them get in the car then and witness the issue? Seems like something was off when they installed the tires.


Yeah that will probably be my next step. Hoping to have some time over the holidays to get there.



RIXSTER said:


> First thing I would look at is if tires are directional and they are mounted backwards, or some tires have an "outside" written on sidewall. Weird that mileage has anything to do with it. Maybe once tires are heated up they get unstable, maybe take them back and get a different brand set.


Thought about and checked that, don't seem to be directional as far as I can tell. Didn't see outside written on any of them either.



obermd said:


> I think one of the tires has internal damage to the belts. When they warm up the belts aren't being held in place.


Starting to think that way too... thanks


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## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

Robby said:


> Joe,
> It's time to rethink this a bit.......I remember and responded to your last post.
> 
> This time you have added a clue, specifically the over 30 mile (meaning over thirty minutes) before the 'feeling' sets in.
> ...



Interesting... thanks Rob. I will definitely take a look at that service bulletin. It doesn't sound exactly like what we're experiencing, but could be a matter of semantics. 

It feels to me more like driving through an open field on a super windy day - the car is being pushed/pulled laterally even when holding the wheel straight. Feelings of lateral movement perpendicular to the direction the car is traveling. 

Is that similar to the bulletin symptoms?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

dishwab said:


> Interesting... thanks Rob. I will definitely take a look at that service bulletin. It doesn't sound exactly like what we're experiencing, but could be a matter of semantics.
> 
> It feels to me more like driving through an open field on a super windy day - the car is being pushed/pulled laterally even when holding the wheel straight. Feelings of lateral movement perpendicular to the direction the car is traveling.
> 
> Is that similar to the bulletin symptoms?


Well......similarish is the best I can conjure up.

The Altimax is a very good tire.....doesn't mean you can't have a bad one but unlikely......if you had put some of these Chinese things on I'd be looking harder at tires but you selected a tire that I see little problem with.....in particular belt separation.

Generally a belt problem shows itself immediatly and vibration or bouncing is the complaint......sometimes a side to side sway at very low speeds is reported as well......tends to diminish at speed.

The Cruze rear suspension is so robust and simple I cannot envision it creating a problem.....in particular a problem that comes up after a specific amount of driving time.......would be there immediatly as well.

Frankly, the only things I can think of come back to the rack........I am assuming the tire pressures are equalized throughout this discussion.
I'm confident the alignment shop looked at the mount bushings.....but again, loosness there would be evident at all times.

Best I can offer from a laptop.

Rob


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## RIXSTER (Apr 13, 2015)

Robby said:


> Joe,
> It's time to rethink this a bit.......I remember and responded to your last post.
> 
> This time you have added a clue, specifically the over 30 mile (meaning over thirty minutes) before the 'feeling' sets in.
> ...


Robby could be "dead on" on this one !! I remember this one.


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## Vetterin (Mar 27, 2011)

I put RT43's on my car this summer and couldn't be happier! If you have the time why not try switching the fronts and the backs and see if the problem changes. That might at least narrow it down to the car or the tires.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

dishwab said:


> Is that similar to the bulletin symptoms?


The description was "notchy" steering. It took additional effort to get it out of the center position. Your description sounds completely different. 




Vetterin said:


> If you have the time why not try switching the fronts and the backs and see if the problem changes. That might at least narrow it down to the car or the tires.


If it is a tire, that would change the handling - a big clue.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

ChevyGuy,

Thats what is tough to convey.......Mine did this too BTW.......I would be on the tollway (I-90), and, after awhile, when a steering correction was needed, the steering felt 'hung up' for lack of a better term.
As I would apply a bit more force to the wheel, the assist would 'wake up'.....again for lack of a better term, and it would cause me to overcorrect.

To some drivers, this over response, because it now caused the need to opposite correct, could be interpeted as a loose feeling rear end.

Tough to put in words.....you sort of have to experience it.

Rob


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

I had this problem fairly severely on my 2014 Diesel, and it got twice as bad after I put new tires on, so I can easily see why it could go from unnoticeable to a significant factor after putting on new tires. 

If you haven't had it in for the steering, I would take it in to rule this out. If you're wrong, you get a fresh steering rack and the newest software flashed, all on the house, so it wouldn't hurt. Mention Special Coverage #14232 and describe the problem as sticking in the steering that results in unpredictable steering behavior.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Robby said:


> ChevyGuy,
> 
> Thats what is tough to convey.......Mine did this too BTW.......I would be on the tollway (I-90), and, after awhile, when a steering correction was needed, the steering felt 'hung up' for lack of a better term.
> As I would apply a bit more force to the wheel, the assist would 'wake up'.....again for lack of a better term, and it would cause me to overcorrect.
> ...


Very annoying, have had it happen too. The electric steering is very precise to small inputs, so when you have to move the wheel that much to "unstick" it, you're all over your lane. 

However, if you definitely feel it's coming from the rear, if this is a Model equipped with Z link and had taken a hit somewhere to bend something, bushings should be looked at. My S70 had a somewhat similar delta link design, and shortly after a snowy, sideways impact with a curb, the rear end just didn't feel in line with the rest of the car. An axle was replaced that was bent and the main delta link bushing needed to be replaced despite the alignment being dead on - it was swaying with a bit of camber from side to side out on the road, if you will.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> However, if you definitely feel it's coming from the rear, if this is a Model equipped with Z link and had taken a hit somewhere to bend something, bushings should be looked at. My S70 had a somewhat similar delta link design, and shortly after a snowy, sideways impact with a curb, the rear end just didn't feel in line with the rest of the car. An axle was replaced that was bent and the main delta link bushing needed to be replaced despite the alignment being dead on - it was swaying with a bit of camber from side to side out on the road, if you will.


Valid point, but that wouldn't kick in after 30 minutes - unless that's how long it took to get to a road surface where it showed up.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

ChevyGuy said:


> Valid point, but that wouldn't kick in after 30 minutes - unless that's how long it took to get to a road surface where it showed up.


True!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

dishwab said:


> and is much worse in corners than when driving straight.


In the corner, or entering the corner? I could see the steering problem being an issue as it could be hard to get the car to turn, but if you're experiencing IN the turn, I'd think that would suggest something else.


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## 170-3tree (Nov 4, 2014)

How old are your shocks? If they're internally messed up they can cause some weird stuff. We had one block up the other day, so it wouldn't travel more than half an inch. It was a front, but made it feel like the car shot out one side over the tiniest of bumps. It's rare, but this is weird situation. 

Outside of that, have you taken it in to the dealer at all? I like the rotating tires idea. You can do both and if it changes or goes away, then one at a time back.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Well, mine took about 20/30 minutes (miles) before the binding would start happening......the next 20 miles it would bind with every correction until I got back on surface streets.
Once making the frequent corrections and turns on the surface streets, the binding would disappear.

On the way back, again in the 20/30 minute range (this is the halfway point of my trip to my hangar btw) it would again begin the bind routine until my exit.
The exit is about 3/4 miles to my home.......the binding again, would not recur on the surface roads.

The next time I headed out, usually a week, to the hangar, same exact routine.

Key seemed to be long straight ride with minimum steering input after a given amount of time.

Rob


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Well, speaking to the tires I suggest finding a hunter gsp9700 and someone who really knows how to use it. 

I have seen this road force balancing machine reject brand new tires many, many times. From high-end tire manufacturers. 

For best results, I suggest asking the technician if he wouldn't mind taking a minute or two to calibrate the machine before use. 

Given the symptomology I suspect more than one bad tire. Tires that may have been previously rejected by others, returned to the distributor and then sold again to less discerning retailers. 

Much like GM doing a buy-back, auctioning the vehicle off, and it being resold by a dealer as an executive driven.


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## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

Vetterin said:


> I put RT43's on my car this summer and couldn't be happier! If you have the time why not try switching the fronts and the backs and see if the problem changes. That might at least narrow it down to the car or the tires.


Did you notice any sort of "break in" period with similar symptoms at all?


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## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the input! All of the different opinions/possibilities are much appreciated. 

I think I'm going to start with rotating the rears to the fronts and see if that gets me anywhere. It looks like General offers a 45 day customer satisfaction trial period during which they will replace up to all 4 of the new tires if you're unsatisfied in any way. 

I may just go back to Sears and insist that they warranty out the tires before spending any more money on replacing parts, re-balancing, etc.


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## 170-3tree (Nov 4, 2014)

Tomko said:


> Well, speaking to the tires I suggest finding a hunter gsp9700 and someone who really knows how to use it.
> 
> I have seen this road force balancing machine reject brand new tires many, many times. From high-end tire manufacturers.
> 
> ...



I believe Firestone locations use the 9700 as standard unit.. Its a sweet machine, and does find some issue tires that the customer never complains of quite often... Pop on the free replacement force matched and that customer will freak at the difference sometimes. (in a good way of course)


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## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> In the corner, or entering the corner? I could see the steering problem being an issue as it could be hard to get the car to turn, but if you're experiencing IN the turn, I'd think that would suggest something else.


Definitely once I'm already in the corners it's more noticeable. That isn't to say exclusively, though, as it will happen going perfectly straight as well. It sounds like a different issue than the steering bulletin, although it sounds like that fix is worth getting regardless...




170-3tree said:


> How old are your shocks? If they're internally messed up they can cause some weird stuff. We had one block up the other day, so it wouldn't travel more than half an inch. It was a front, but made it feel like the car shot out one side over the tiniest of bumps. It's rare, but this is weird situation.
> 
> Outside of that, have you taken it in to the dealer at all? I like the rotating tires idea. You can do both and if it changes or goes away, then one at a time back.


Haven't taken it to a dealer because she bought the car CPO and doesn't have a warranty for this sort of thing. Trying to fix it myself if we can narrow it down to a particular issue. I'll rotate the tires this weekend and see if that helps... Been avoiding it because I'm recovering from knee surgery so it's a bit of a pain in the ass to haul the jack out and get on the ground at the moment


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## jmlo96 (May 2, 2015)

Did you happen to check how stiff the sidewalls are? I noticed I was having the same problem with my Coopers. It felt like driving on balloons and on the highway it was the same thing, it felt like the Cruze's rear end wanted to come around on the bends. I figured I just needed more gas in the tank or something. Switched back in November to my winter tires and the issue went away. I finally noticed that it was indeed the tires this week when I put back on my stock wheels with the Cooper all seasons (didn't want to keep running the winters in this warm weather). There was a huge difference. My car was actually scary to drive! I had the replacement Continental PureContacts put on that were warrantied on the Coopers, and the problem is totally gone. If I were you, I would see if they will let you swap them out for the PureContacts. The Cruze seems to absolutely love that tire.


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## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

If anyone is still interested in this, we haven't yet been able to resolve the issue. We warrantied all 4 tires out today for a new set of Altimax RT43 (same tires) assuming that the issue was a faulty tire.

Went for a lengthy test drive and it seemed like everything was fixed until we hit about 100 miles, and started to experience the same symptoms 

It just seems strange to me that a tire could inherently feel so unsafe just because of a softer sidewall. I read dozens of reviews of this tire before purchasing and there was no mention of anything similar. At the same time, I am struggling to see what else could be causing the problem...


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## Cruzncannada (Nov 21, 2015)

While I agree with the soft side walls being a stretch for me, at least if properly inflated, you could try pumping them up higher maybe 40psi from spec 35 or heck maybe do 1 drive at 45psi itll drive like a rock but I've seen many people on here run 40+ but it should stiffen them out enough to feel a difference? If this fixes it that should be enough to warranty beyond new set of the same tire
or if you have them as one post mentioned try putting winters on my winters are 99T XL and even at 35psi there a lot stiffer then the original fire stones.


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## dishwab (Dec 2, 2015)

Cruzncannada said:


> While I agree with the soft side walls being a stretch for me, at least if properly inflated, you could try pumping them up higher maybe 40psi from spec 35 or heck maybe do 1 drive at 45psi itll drive like a rock but I've seen many people on here run 40+ but it should stiffen them out enough to feel a difference? If this fixes it that should be enough to warranty beyond new set of the same tire
> or if you have them as one post mentioned try putting winters on my winters are 99T XL and even at 35psi there a lot stiffer then the original fire stones.


Thanks for your input. Unfortunately her old tire were scrapped as they had about 2/32 left - so we have nothing to put on to compare against at the moment.

She's considering going to the dealer to have them assess it (although hoping to avoid this for the sake of $$). We may try going back to the tire shop and giving up on the Generals altogether to see if we can just pay the difference for a better tire/stiffer tire.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Once again your cure can be found in a hunter gsp9700 and someone skilled in its use. 

I found more than a dozen listed within 10 miles of a flint zip code. 

Keep chasing phantoms or get the job done. The choice is yours. 

Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix


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## DECruzer (Jul 19, 2015)

dishwab said:


> Thanks everyone for the input! All of the different opinions/possibilities are much appreciated.
> 
> I think I'm going to start with rotating the rears to the fronts and see if that gets me anywhere. It looks like General offers a 45 day customer satisfaction trial period during which they will replace up to all 4 of the new tires if you're unsatisfied in any way.
> 
> I may just go back to Sears and insist that they warranty out the tires before spending any more money on replacing parts, re-balancing, etc.


I would really hope it's not the tires. I have those tires and been very pleased with them. Been using General tires for years on various vehicles with no issues at all.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Tomko said:


> Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix


That was an interesting list for my area. Every luxury car dealer and even a community collage. But not a single GM dealer.


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