# Steering issue different from standard one



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

How much pull are we talking? Like, bad enough to pull you off the road and crash, or just a slight tug?


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

It’s generally not too bad, but it’s unsafe enough that I won’t let my daughter drive it for fear that she’d over correct when it pulls. 
Sometimes it just barely pulls the steering wheel about a 1/2 to 1 inch. Other times, it’ll pull it about 2 inches or so. 
And, again, it’s instantaneous and only for a split second.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Sorry, not bad enough (at least yet anyway) to pull me off the road so long as I’m always paying attention.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Does the wheel itself move? Like physically in your hands?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

It sounds to me like it could be an alignment/suspension geometry/tire related issue on certain road surfaces angles. We saw things like this alot in my decade of working for Goodyear.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Thebigzeus said:


> Does the wheel itself move? Like physically in your hands?


It does.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

JLL said:


> It sounds to me like it could be an alignment/suspension geometry/tire related issue on certain road surfaces angles. We saw things like this alot in my decade of working for Goodyear.


When I first got it, I was initially thinking it may be one of the tires with some broken belts. Now that I’ve gotten to know the car, it’s definitely not tires or alignment. As long as this “whatever” isn’t happening, it drives straight as can be. And it happens at any different speed, even when I’m going 9-11 mph. I live in an RV park, where the speed limit is 10. It’s happened in the park before.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Amycolo1 said:


> When I first got it, I was initially thinking it may be one of the tires with some broken belts. Now that I’ve gotten to know the car, it’s definitely not tires or alignment. As long as this “whatever” isn’t happening, it drives straight as can be. And it happens at any different speed, even when I’m going 9-11 mph. I live in an RV park, where the speed limit is 10. It’s happened in the park before.


Have you actually had the alignment checked? If the alignment is out of specification, it is possible for a slight shift in the center of gravity of the car to cause a momentary pull, regardless of speed.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

JLL said:


> Have you actually had the alignment checked? If the alignment is out of specification, it is possible for a slight shift in the center of gravity of the car to cause a momentary pull, regardless of speed.


I have. That was the very first thing I had done. It was off, but ever so slightly. It’s good now though.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Amycolo1 said:


> I have. That was the very first thing I had done. It was off, but ever so slightly. It’s good now though.


This is more of a sudden pull/tug. And it’s entirely random. Sometimes it will happen twice in a mile at low speeds and sometimes it will happen at high speeds. Sometimes, it doesn’t happen at all.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Amycolo1 said:


> This is more of a sudden pull/tug. And it’s entirely random. Sometimes it will happen twice in a mile at low speeds and sometimes it will happen at high speeds. Sometimes, it doesn’t happen at all.


I guess it could be a fault in the electric steering assist that isn't setting a code?


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## BadBowtie (Apr 18, 2015)

Don't know if it's related...........but............
I remember reading about this a while back: 
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...ering-wheel-notchy-highway-speed-driving.html

This seems like something different might be happening though.
Possibly an issue with the steering rack maybe..??


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

JLL said:


> I guess it could be a fault in the electric steering assist that isn't setting a code?


That was what I was strongly leaning towards at first, replacing the steering motor. Now I’m just not sure. I’m a mechanic by trade. Class 8, though, so automotive isn’t my forte. But I’ve never seen or felt anything like this. Then again, I’ve never had electric power steering either.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

BadBowtie said:


> Don't know if it's related...........but............
> I remember reading about this a while back:
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...ering-wheel-notchy-highway-speed-driving.html
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think I’ve read every single thread on here related to steering. Lol. While similar, I’ve not seen anything exactly the same as my issues. My issues happen at any time, not necessarily only when I’ve been driving in a straight line for extended periods.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Amycolo1 said:


> Yeah, I think I’ve read every single thread on here related to steering. Lol. While similar, I’ve not seen anything exactly the same as my issues. My issues happen at any time, not necessarily only when I’ve been driving in a straight line for extended periods.


Will a Mustang 2 rack fit in a Cruze? Hahaha. So weird not having a belt driven steering pump on the motor!


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Amycolo1 said:


> I just bought a 2016 Cruze Limited.
> No CEL, no stabilitrak or traction control lights. Radio has no issues at all. No nothing. SnapOn Solis indicates no issues at all. But when I’m driving down the road, it’ll will very randomly tug/pull one way the other. Sometimes it’s very mild, sometimes it’s a bit aggressive with how much it tugs. And it’s only for a split second. Then it’s perfectly fine till it does it again. It’s entire out of the blue. No warning that it’s going happen at all. Turning TC & stabilitrak off does help.
> Just for the fun of it, purely because that seems to be a common issue with these cars, I did go ahead and replace the negative battery cable. Of course, that did nothing either.
> It’s almost like one or the other front brake caliper will randomly pinch the pads/rotor (only one side at a time per occurrence) without me touching the brake pedal. But it doesn’t slow the car down.
> ...


Sorry, turning TC & Stabilitrak off does not help.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Amycolo1 said:


> That was what I was strongly leaning towards at first, replacing the steering motor. Now I’m just not sure. I’m a mechanic by trade. Class 8, though, so automotive isn’t my forte. But I’ve never seen or felt anything like this. Then again, I’ve never had electric power steering either.


Is it possible that the system is working properly but since you've never driven a vehicle with electric power steering that your perceiving there is a problem when there is none? Electric power steering does NOT behave like hydraulic power steering.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

JLL said:


> Is it possible that the system is working properly but since you've never driven a vehicle with electric power steering that your perceiving there is a problem when there is none? Electric power steering does NOT behave like hydraulic power steering.


I suppose it’s possible. I’ve had it for a week and kept trying to convince myself that it was probably normal for electric steering. But it’s really at the point of being unsafe. I won’t even let my daughter drive it for fear that she’ll over correct.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

The *steering angle sensor* (SAS) determines where the driver wants to steer, matching the *steering wheel* with the vehicle's wheels. Located within the *steering* column, the *steering angle sensor* always has more than one *sensor* packaged together in a single unit for redundancy, accuracy, and diagnostics.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Eddy Cruze said:


> The *steering angle sensor* (SAS) determines where the driver wants to steer, matching the *steering wheel* with the vehicle's wheels. Located within the *steering* column, the *steering angle sensor* always has more than one *sensor* packaged together in a single unit for redundancy, accuracy, and diagnostics.


That’s a great idea! And may explain why there’s no CEL. Guess I hadn’t thought of the SAS actually controlling wheel inputs. Not sure what I thought actually sent a signal to the motor. Thanks. I’ll look into that more.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Amycolo1 said:


> I just bought a 2016 Cruze Limited.
> No CEL, no stabilitrak or traction control lights. Radio has no issues at all. No nothing. SnapOn Solis indicates no issues at all. But when I’m driving down the road, it’ll will very randomly tug/pull one way the other. Sometimes it’s very mild, sometimes it’s a bit aggressive with how much it tugs. And it’s only for a split second. Then it’s perfectly fine till it does it again. It’s entire out of the blue. No warning that it’s going happen at all. Turning TC & stabilitrak off does help.
> Just for the fun of it, purely because that seems to be a common issue with these cars, I did go ahead and replace the negative battery cable. Of course, that did nothing either.
> It’s almost like one or the other front brake caliper will randomly pinch the pads/rotor (only one side at a time per occurrence) without me touching the brake pedal. But it doesn’t slow the car down.
> ...


I believe I’ve narrowed it down to a WSS and/exciter ring having debris on it, not allow constant correct data to be transmitted. It’s the R/F. I’ll take it apart tomorrow and see how it goes.
I was able to get U0415 in the steering angle sensor, and C0040 out of the ABS system. Erased codes. Drove. Was fine for a few miles and then it happened again. Hooked back up and got both of those DTCs again.
This TSB PIC5428G describes it perfectly. Unfortunately, it’s only for up to 2015. Since mines a 2016, it wouldn’t be covered by GM. But it’s an easy task, so I have no issues staying away from the dealer for it. 


https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/118021/4702952



Will update after repairs are complete.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

A failed or contaminated wheel speed sensor magnet ring can definitely cause weird issues. These failing are a pretty common occurrence especially in rust belt type areas. 
C0040 would be right front WSS.

It's not covered, not because your car is a 16 and not part of that document, but simply because you're out of warranty. That's a bumper-to-bumper covered fault. That document isn't a recall or special warranty. Just a service bulletin to aid in diagnostics.

Additional other possible causes of your issue.... Aftermarket devices plugged into the OBD2 port, a steering angle sensor glitching out, but still in spec (super rare, this usually sets a code. Sensor is at top of column, behind the airbag clockspring.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Ma v e n said:


> A failed or contaminated wheel speed sensor magnet ring can definitely cause weird issues. These failing are a pretty common occurrence especially in rust belt type areas.
> C0040 would be right front WSS.
> 
> It's not covered, not because your car is a 16 and not part of that document, but simply because you're out of warranty. That's a bumper-to-bumper covered fault. That document isn't a recall or special warranty. Just a service bulletin to aid in diagnostics.
> ...


Yeah, I ran diag on the SAS. It appears to be sending a perfect signal 100% of the time. Just for the heck of it, I recalibrated the SAS also. Never had an ABS sensor or exciter ring cause the issues I’m having, but it makes sense. If that’s in deed all it is, I’ll be very happy.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Removed and cleaned both front hubs and exciter rings. No help at all. Still tugging when I drive. And I can’t get any codes again. 
All functional tests are within parameters for sensors and rings.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Amycolo1 said:


> Removed and cleaned both front hubs and exciter rings. No help at all. Still tugging when I drive. And I can’t get any codes again.
> All functional tests are within parameters for sensors and rings.


Why not just replace them while you had them apart?


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Why would I just throw parts at it when there’s a TSB for this exact issue that states “no parts generally needed for this concern”. 
I will end up replacing both of them now. And I’ll put new WSSs in as well. But I didn’t want to spend money until I’d properly diagnosed it. The sensors & rings weren’t overly dirty, but did have gunk on them.
Fortunately, it’s a very simple task to replace them.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Amycolo1 said:


> Why would I just throw parts at it when there’s a TSB for this exact issue that states “no parts generally needed for this concern”.
> I will end up replacing both of them now. And I’ll put new WSSs in as well. But I didn’t want to spend money until I’d properly diagnosed it. The sensors & rings weren’t overly dirty, but did have gunk on them.
> Fortunately, it’s a very simple task to replace them.


I've learned from experience that if a part has to come out, especially to be cleaned, and it's a heavy use part, the part gets replaced. That way it doesn't get removed twice.

It's kinda like removing spark plugs to clean them because there's causing a misfire. Just replace the spark plug, save time, and be done with it. Same concept.


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

$5 dollar spark plugs vs $100 hubs are entirely different. I’ve been a class 8 diesel mechanic for right at 30 years now. No way in hell I’ll become a parts changer.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Amycolo1 said:


> $5 dollar spark plugs vs $100 hubs are entirely different. I’ve been a class 8 diesel mechanic for right at 30 years now. No way in hell I’ll become a parts changer.


Good luck in your precision diagnostic efforts, Master Tech!


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

JLL said:


> Good luck in your precision diagnostic efforts, Master Tech!


Will do, Mr very highly experienced parts changer.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

There is updated PSCM software for the 2016, it was related to the sticky on center feel, but it at one point I believe had notations regarding anomalies in the software it was correcting in addition to the specified purpose. 

If you've got a scan tool that can access data, you should look and see if it's an ABS activation or a steering input. That will help with where to focus your diagnosis. 

If it wasn't the WSS rings, and the car isn't modified, and has good grounds at the battery, PSCM, EBCM, and BCM then my money is on it needing a new rack, as it's likely a failing torque sensor


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Not sure I follow. See if it’s an ABS activation or steering steering input? What’s causing the problem? The one and only code I’ve been able to get out of it is U0415, which is why I removed and cleaned the steer axle rings and sensors. Not a single other thing I can find on the scan tool to point me in the right direction. There were a couple minor and misc items I found and resolved, but those weren’t related to the steering or ABS. 
Everything I’ve checked indicates all WSSs & exciter rings are sending great/correct data. The SAS is definitely fine, though I’m still “learning” this car and haven’t dug in further to find more steering sensors. I have checked all grounds for good continuity and have found no issues. 
Torque sensor? Assuming that’s in the electronic steering motor? Or in the rack itself? Google doesn’t show much of anything when searching.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

There's only 2 things that can cause a tug on the wheel like that. A single front brake caliper being activated by the ABS/Stability control, or the steering engaging.

See if if you can duplicate the concern while viewing data. If there's an ABS activation. You know you're dealing with a brake/stability control issue, whether it be WSS system, or the EBCM. If there's no ABS activation it's an electric power steering event. Which means it's most likely a torque sensor, control module, or very unlikely vehicle wiring fault.

The U0415 is just an indicator to let you know the module (PSCM in your case) received invalid data from the EBCM. Without the symptom byte(additional two digit identifier to DTC) we don't know enough info about why the PSCM labeled the data as invalid. Was it actually invalid, or was it just out of range of expectations because the PSCM has its own flaw? Etc....

The torque sensor is part of the rack


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## Amycolo1 (Nov 18, 2020)

Ma v e n said:


> There's only 2 things that can cause a tug on the wheel like that. A single front brake caliper being activated by the ABS/Stability control, or the steering engaging.
> 
> See if if you can duplicate the concern while viewing data. If there's an ABS activation. You know you're dealing with a brake/stability control issue, whether it be WSS system, or the EBCM. If there's no ABS activation it's an electric power steering event. Which means it's most likely a torque sensor, control module, or very unlikely vehicle wiring fault.
> 
> ...


I got it. That’s a great & simple idea. Leave the scanner hooked to the car, record a session while driving and then look at it when I’m stopped. Great idea! Surely that would show what system the anomaly is being generated from. 
I’ll let you know after I try that. Thanks! 
BTW, the Solus is almost useless nowadays. I bought it new in 2014, but it’s becoming more obsolete by the day. I need to switch to a laptop program and buy a datalink adapter. Any suggestion on the best program and data adapter?


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## jackgb74 (Aug 18, 2020)

Amycolo1 said:


> I just bought a 2016 Cruze Limited.
> No CEL, no stabilitrak or traction control lights. Radio has no issues at all. No nothing. SnapOn Solis indicates no issues at all. But when I’m driving down the road, it’ll will very randomly tug/pull one way the other. Sometimes it’s very mild, sometimes it’s a bit aggressive with how much it tugs. And it’s only for a split second. Then it’s perfectly fine till it does it again. It’s entire out of the blue. No warning that it’s going happen at all. Turning TC & stabilitrak off does help.
> Just for the fun of it, purely because that seems to be a common issue with these cars, I did go ahead and replace the negative battery cable. Of course, that did nothing either.
> It’s almost like one or the other front brake caliper will randomly pinch the pads/rotor (only one side at a time per occurrence) without me touching the brake pedal. But it doesn’t slow the car down.
> ...


Have you checked to see if you have the lane keep assist option. I drove a vehicle with this once without knowing it had the option and if you got to close to the lines in the road the car would automatically turn the steering to keep you in your lane.


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