# This is a bad sign - Dealership Ignorance on the Gen 2 Diesel



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I would hope that GM would try a bit harder to advertise their Diesel lineup this time. A lot of people don't even know they had a diesel option in the gen 1 Cruze. It's not looking good if the dealers don't even know about it yet.


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## 2014Oilburner (Feb 1, 2015)

I've never had a dealer ..car or motorcycle.... know more about the model I was buying than I did. The sales people just don't put in the effort and read up on anything they are selling...I'm sure there are some who do make the effort to know about what they are selling but honestly I've never met a sales person who has.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I texted my local dealer new car manager. He was unaware he could order a Cruze diesel yet. They do 500 cars a month and long history locally, they have been in transportation business for 170 years for six generations. They just sold to some huge dealer. One of their owners here has stage 4 lung cancer. ?

Anyway, I think it is obvious GM hasn't rolled this out very well and communication to the dealers I would say is quite poor. My local dealer shared he would order some and get back to me.

How will GM market to VW owners if they don't get them on the lots?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

2014Oilburner said:


> I've never had a dealer ..car or motorcycle.... know more about the model I was buying than I did. The sales people just don't put in the effort and read up on anything they are selling...I'm sure there are some who do make the effort to know about what they are selling but honestly I've never met a sales person who has.


I haven't had a dealer know more than me either, some sales people sit at their desks and don't know their product, very frustrating. When a sales person does know they are top sellers. On east coast VW had a saleman of Chris and he spealized in VW and sold diesels and gassers to folks all over the country, I spoke to him a couple times, he was incredible, pick you up at airport, flawless delivery, and had a huge reputation of being a outstanding man and rep. He died a couple years ago. His prices were always competitive but it was knowing the product and know how to get what you wanted.


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## wasney (Mar 3, 2015)

Just want to point out they are independently owned and operated. Their ignorance is of their own. Lol I would like a diesel hatchback.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

I'd like to point out that I also work for a dealership, and I believe you've picked up some info from me.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

And if people have questions, you or anyone, my number is in my signature for a reason.


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## mgulfcoastguy (Jun 20, 2016)

That has been the case for every vehicle that I have purchased since the mid 80s. They don't know anything about the economical vehicle that I came to see but they are willing to make a deal on the overloaded behemoth that is already on the lot. The exception was my VW salesman who got on the computer and found my 6M JSW 340 miles away and had it driven down over night. Of course he made an effort to get me to add panoramic roof etc. but he was the old guy of the sales force. He knew a smaller commission now beat losing the sail due to me driving 50 miles further.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

EricSmit said:


> I'd like to point out that I also work for a dealership, and I believe you've picked up some info from me.


Yes. You are definitely in the minority. You've been a great contributor here and I, for one, appreciate it. it would be fantastic if salespeople even made 1/2 the effort that you do.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

diesel said:


> Yes. You are definitely in the minority. You've been a great contributor here and I, for one, appreciate it. it would be fantastic if salespeople even made 1/2 the effort that you do.


Unfortunately, I know the salespeople you are referring to. Complete idiots. :/ 

But to be fair, there are hundreds of combinations of cars and packages; when you go to the dealer, you've memorized 2 or 3 that you want to consider.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

IMO, we are just seeing another example of the general work ethic/mentality that seems to have become rule, rather than the exception.

Staying on topic, the automobile biz, few people get involved with the sales aspect approaching it as a potential career. It is just another product to sell. 
The mentality seems to have become 'Sell what you see (in this case, on the lot)' as opposed to 'See what you can sell'.

Since auto salespeople are generally paid on a 'unit rolled' basis, it becomes imperative to sell what you see if you picked up a bad habit like paying bills, eating, living somewhere, etcetera.

As a result, there isn't a lot of motivation to learn about the product and an ordered car does not represent income to the house for six to eight weeks.

As a result, it is on the consumers back to get as much information on a particular car as possible before getting near a dealer.

Try to keep in mind that automotive enthusiests (if you are reading this, you are) are the exception when car buying is the question. As a result, dealers generally don't have the combination of color/options/version that you have visualized.
The dealership orders combinations the 'masses' are willing to accept. Family went to buy a certain color combination for example on a LT Cruze.
On the lot, the dealer has several LT's with either the right color/wrong interior or right interior/wrong color. Sometimes, right color/right interior, wrong model.
If the customer wants a new car in their driveway, tonight, a concession must be made by the buyer and generally, to scratch the 'new car' itch, a concession will be made.

The majority of salespeople will maximize this mindset as opposed to locating or ordering for the above reasons.

So, there really is no reason to learn the product since the percentage of buyers (enthusiests) is likely less than 5% and those folks have already studied the product enough to know what they want. Most often, these are the buyers that will require a combination be ordered.....no immediate joy for the salesperson, so, little motivation.

Rob


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Robby said:


> IMO, we are just seeing another example of the general work ethic/mentality that seems to have become rule, rather than the exception.
> 
> Staying on topic, the automobile biz, few people get involved with the sales aspect approaching it as a potential career. It is just another product to sell.
> The mentality seems to have become 'Sell what you see (in this case, on the lot)' as opposed to 'See what you can sell'.
> ...


10/10. 

Which is interesting actually. I was going to order a manual Cruze hatch in January to get in march, but my truck died and I had to ship one in from a ways away to get one in a manual.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I've only dealt with a one or two dealerships over the years where they would look for the car you wanted if it wasn't on their lot. When the CTD came out GM ran a series of commercials in the Denver area about it, but GM's advertising agency has never had the sheer creative talent of VWs.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Dealers here dealer trade for what you want on a frequent basis. The issue here is GM has gone to putting extra incentives on a few cars on the lot, called bonus tags recently. Well if they are gonna put an extra 1000 or 1500 or whatever it is I want that, why pay more. Before they just put larger incentives on all Cruzes by zipcode, not it seems more complicated. Probably smart for manufacturers but sort of a nightmare for dealers.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> Dealers here dealer trade for what you want on a frequent basis. The issue here is GM has gone to putting extra incentives on a few cars on the lot, called bonus tags recently. Well if they are gonna put an extra 1000 or 1500 or whatever it is I want that, why pay more. Before they just put larger incentives on all Cruzes by zipcode, not it seems more complicated. Probably smart for manufacturers but sort of a nightmare for dealers.


We get to choose what we tag.

We get a certain number of tags and we have a limited amount of time to put them on whatever we want.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

EricSmit said:


> We get to choose what we tag.
> 
> We get a certain number of tags and we have a limited amount of time to put them on whatever we want.


I understand how it works, have a good friend as a new car manager at my local dealer. As a consumer not a big fan of the program.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I'll wager that you can walk into nearly any auto dealership off the street and you will get a twit wanting to sell you a car. I always cultivate a relationship with the most senior salesman in the building. It's usually the person sitting next to the Sales Manager's office. Back in '92, we went car shopping and stopped at a Toyota lot looking for a Celica GT. Found a salesman who was the nephew of a sales manager where I worked (big computer company with the stripped logo). Complete north end of a south bound horse and knew less. Totally honked off SWMBO, who is not a car person. We walked over to the Saturn dealership and talked to the senior salesman and the GM. The GM let us take her SC home for the night to see if we liked it. Yes, we did.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> I understand how it works, have a good friend as a new car manager at my local dealer. As a consumer not a big fan of the program.


I'm not a huge fan either. haha.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

I bought a 4Runner back in August. The salesman that helped was a surprise, he knew that thing inside and out. That being said, he had the usual amount of salesman BS. He toned it down when he figured out I was a car guy.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

My dealer knows nothing about Diesel, not the old one like mine and certainly not the new, lol! 

So im not surprised.


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## anthonysmith93 (Jul 15, 2015)

This may be an ignorant assumption on my part, but wasn't the gen 1 Cruze the first modern sedan to even offer a diesel option from Chevrolet? It's possible they purposely didn't advertise it to the stars because they had little to no idea how they'd actually perform, or if they'd be popular. They didn't make a lot of them so better to spend too little on advertisement and not sell many than to spend too much on advertisement and still possibly not sell many.

I do agree that GM "homeland" doesn't do the best job of communicating upcoming vehicles to ALL dealer staff and even though we walk in there loaded with info from the internet, they should be able to be level with us when it comes to facts about their upcoming vehicles.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Robby said:


> IMO, we are just seeing another example of the general work ethic/mentality that seems to have become rule, rather than the exception.
> 
> Staying on topic, the automobile biz, few people get involved with the sales aspect approaching it as a potential career. It is just another product to sell.
> The mentality seems to have become 'Sell what you see (in this case, on the lot)' as opposed to 'See what you can sell'.
> ...


To your point - the interesting thing is the salesman offered (3 times) to order me one. (He didn't seem to hear the part about "I need to drive it first"). If I put myself in their shoes, I would see that as a future sale that I don't have to make. I tend to look ahead more than most people though.

The really funny thing is 3 separate time at 3 different car dealerships in the past 2 years, I had established an email/phone dialog about a car that I either test drove or already knew that i wanted. We got to the point of me saying "I'm ready to buy at the agreed upon number, please send the paperwork to my bank and call me when that's done." Only to hear NOTHING after that. Not a peep. I thought these guys only made money if they sold a car? Can anybody possibly explain this to me? (No, there are no "hidden" parts to this story. We agreed on a price and trade value and I was ready to buy.)



anthonysmith93 said:


> This may be an ignorant assumption on my part, but wasn't the gen 1 Cruze the first modern sedan to even offer a diesel option from Chevrolet? It's possible they purposely didn't advertise it to the stars because they had little to no idea how they'd actually perform, or if they'd be popular. They didn't make a lot of them so better to spend too little on advertisement and not sell many than to spend too much on advertisement and still possibly not sell many.
> 
> I do agree that GM "homeland" doesn't do the best job of communicating upcoming vehicles to ALL dealer staff and even though we walk in there loaded with info from the internet, they should be able to be level with us when it comes to facts about their upcoming vehicles.


On the first gen diesel, I think there was some "testing the water". They wanted to get the car into some consumers hands to see how they held up and sort of as beta testers. That's the best I can figure. They originally only had a contract for 10,000 engines. Possibly they wanted to work the bugs out and get the gen 2 diesel right from the start. (These are just my theories). But if they do the same for the gen 2, they will only sell 12,xxx of those in 2 years too.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> I stopped by a local GM dealership yesterday and asked the salesman if they had a new Cruze diesel on the lot yet. (I later found out he was new, but read on...) He looked a bit confused at that question, so I explained to him that they are starting to hit dealership lots and I wondered if they had one yet. He went to the management office and asked, and then came back to me and said "They only made those for 2 years. It's been a long time since we had one." I rolled my eyes. I repeated that they are making them and that some dealerships already have them and I wondered if they had one on the lot or incoming. He again went back to management and then came back, this time telling me "They just started manufacturing them in the Pacific Northwest and they won't be out for who knows how long"
> 
> Seriously???
> 
> ...


not surprising at all

salesmen are there to funnel buyers into FM office, thats all, not hired for their love/knowledge of the product


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

I resent that.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Good and Bad people everywhere.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

When I find a good salesperson, I typically will buy multiple cars from them over a period of time. you know, the type of person that likes their job and knows how to treat people. They don't have to be an expert on the product, but a little bit of effort goes a long way. I see salespeople like this pop up once in a while. They also understand relationship building and long term repeat business. Those are the people who incidentally make the most money too.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Most salespeople forget they're in the relationship business.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Even today, living on a base filled with a myriad of modern-day and classic car enthusiasts, I cannot tell you how many times I have to explain that yes, I do indeed own a diesel Cruze. I've even had people flag me down and tell me I need to get that clatter noise fixed ASAP, only to point out that those noises are the sounds of a happy little diesel motor. Perhaps I need a bigger "Cruze Diesel" sticker on my back glass


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

starspangled6.0 said:


> Even today, living on a base filled with a myriad of modern-day and classic car enthusiasts, I cannot tell you how many times I have to explain that yes, I do indeed own a diesel Cruze. I've even had people flag me down and tell me I need to get that clatter noise fixed ASAP, only to point out that those noises are the sounds of a happy little diesel motor. Perhaps I need a bigger "Cruze Diesel" sticker on my back glass


Just paint it on the side with a brush. hahaha


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Chevy sells what?...10 vehicle models or something. Dealerships at least being aware of the product line and up coming models is not difficult. I mean, I know about the new diesel and to be quite honest, I'm an idiot.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

MOTO13 said:


> Chevy sells what?...10 vehicle models or something. Dealerships at least being aware of the product line and up coming models is not difficult. I mean, I know about the new diesel and to be quite honest, I'm an idiot.


You know about one specific submodel.

There are 29 different models that Chevrolet sells, with 151 sub model types, and almost 400 PEGs, and each of those has available additional packages and add-ons. How many do you want him to memorize?

And that's not even including fleet, special service, or commercial.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

EricSmit said:


> You know about one specific submodel.
> 
> There are 29 different models that Chevrolet sells, with 151 sub model types, and almost 400 PEGs, and each of those has available additional packages and add-ons. How many do you want him to memorize?


On my job, when I am asked about something I don't know, I will not give out misinformation. I will say "Let me research that and get back to you." i think dealerships should strive to do this as well. If they don't know something, don't just make it up. 

I mean, seriously. Pacific Northwest? LOL


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

diesel said:


> On my job, when I am asked about something I don't know, I will not give out misinformation. I will say "Let me research that and get back to you." i think dealerships should strive to do this as well. If they don't know something, don't just make it up.
> 
> I mean, seriously. Pacific Northwest? LOL


That is what everyone should do, regardless of profession. I do agree that they shouldn't just be spewing out nonsense, and should do a little digging, but you've gotta think; when we are going to buy a car, we are looking at one specific model and we know the exact torque spec of the upper trans mount bolt (100 ft/lbs), and it is unrealistic to expect them to keep that knowledge in reserve.

However, knowing about the existence of a model does not fall in that category of unrealistic knowledge base.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

EricSmit said:


> That is what everyone should do, regardless of profession. I do agree that they shouldn't just be spewing out nonsense, and should do a little digging, but you've gotta think; when we are going to buy a car, we are looking at one specific model and we know the exact torque spec of the upper trans mount bolt (100 ft/lbs), and it is unrealistic to expect them to keep that knowledge in reserve.
> 
> However, knowing about the existence of a model does not fall in that category of unrealistic knowledge base.


:th_dblthumb2::th_dblthumb2::th_salute:


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

95% of the people that walk into a Chevy dealership probably are looking at MAYBE one of 5 models. No, it's not difficult. Most dealerships separate commercial from consumer deals. A Chevy dealer not knowing about the new Cruze diesel is paramount to stupidity.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

MOTO13 said:


> 95% of the people that walk into a Chevy dealership probably are looking at MAYBE one of 5 models. No, it's not difficult. Most dealerships separate commercial from consumer deals. A Chevy dealer not knowing about the new Cruze diesel is paramount to stupidity.


How many trim levels are there on a 2017 Volt?

Not knowing that answer makes you stupid. 

See what I did there? There are some dealerships that literally won't order any; not enough market or wouldn't sell any. I get that you think that the salesman you spoke to should know more than you, but you're focusing on one or two vehicles. Not including fleet or commercial, there are 19 models, 121 sub models, over 300 PEGs, and you want them to have it all memorized? I'm sorry Mr. Consumer, I don't know that exact thing. Give me more than 13 seconds to look it up for you without you getting pissy.

To answer, there is no LS Volt; there are only two trims.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

And to point out, 95% of people come in looking at maybe five models, right? The popular ones? Go ahead and tell me how the diesel is Chevy's best seller.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Remember, it's the management that didn't know the Cruze diesel existed. It's much more excusable when a brand new salesperson doesn't know about something like that.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

diesel said:


> Remember, it's the management that didn't know the Cruze diesel existed. It's much more excusable when a brand new salesperson doesn't know about something like that.


A lot of the time, management don't know nearly as much. It is a sad situation. Every dealership should have "that guy" that knows everything. At least one of them.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

They sell a $hit ton of the Cruze. It's a popular model. Not knowing about a new diesel engine is silly. It's not like it has been a secret about the new diesel in the Gen 2. They sold them for 2 years in the Gen 1. This is not complex.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

MOTO13 said:


> They sell a $hit ton of the Cruze. It's a popular model. Not knowing about a new diesel engine is silly. It's not like it has been a secret about the new diesel in the Gen 2. They sold them for 2 years in the Gen 1. This is not complex.


No, they sell a ton of gas Cruzes. The diesel is not popular. 2 years of diesel in the first gen, want to know how many my dealership sold? 20. Want to know how many first gen we sold total? 1944.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

When and if I am ready to buy a Gen 2 diesel Cruze and I walk into a Chevy dealership and they aren't very well versed on it, I am just going to walk out of that dealership. Not knowing there is a diesel option is cookoo. I mean, there are only two engine.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Doesn't matter how popular the cruze is, salesman will not be bothered to learn about their low profit margin cars. Go ask about a Silverado, Tahoe or Suburban, I think you will be shocked at how knowledgeable they become. I made the mistake of asking my salesman a few questions about the then new Chevy Colorado while getting our oil changed, almost thought I gained a stalker girlfriend he kept calling me back so much.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

MOTO13 said:


> When and if I am ready to buy a Gen 2 diesel Cruze and I walk into a Chevy dealership and they aren't very well versed on it, I am just going to walk out of that dealership. Not knowing there is a diesel option is cookoo. I mean, there are only two engine.


You keep saying the same thing. Let me rephrase and clarify; random Chevrolet salesman is not a specialized Cruze diesel salesman; I get you had a bad experience with the whole dealership, but you're making a blanket statement based on one independently owned and operated establishment.

Keep in mind, I live and sell near Metro Detroit. When the auto show was going on, we all got free tickets and were encouraged to go. I absolutely went. So did most of my dealership. We all pride ourselves on being knowledgeable for our guests, and that's why I'm so vehemently defending a random dealership. It's not because I particularly care about any other dealership, it's just that you're lumping all dealerships together and that's the kind of stigma that makes buying a car like pulling teeth. If you don't like the dealership you went to, and you're not willing to work with the guy that is willing to move mountains for you, then go somewhere else. 

By the way, I know a guy near Metro Detroit that knows more than you about the new Cruze, and the entire Chevrolet model lineup. Great news, he sells them too. I can get you his business card if you'd like. I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any questions you have, and could probably recommend a dealership.



spacedout said:


> Doesn't matter how popular the cruze is, salesman will not be bothered to learn about their low profit margin cars. Go ask about a Silverado, Tahoe or Suburban, I think you will be shocked at how knowledgeable they become. I made the mistake of asking my salesman a few questions about the then new Chevy Colorado while getting our oil changed, almost thought I gained a stalker girlfriend he kept calling me back so much.


Was he cute at least?


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Question for Eric: Do dealerships still do the salesman rotation thing on walk-ins?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

The bar is set pretty low for a car salesperson. If you know much, you stand out and can do some serious volume. I don't buy into just knowing the higher margin products. I get you make several times more but still. To be honest about it, I don't seek information other than pricing and incentives from a salesperson maybe trade in price. I prefer to do my own research. I get fussy when I ask basic questions and they fumble the ball. 

I have a very good friend that is a car nut and works at a local Porsche dealer and he makes a great living, but he knows the product and is fantastic at what he does. I have sent clients to him and know they will be well taken care of.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Jim Frye said:


> Question for Eric: Do dealerships still do the salesman rotation thing on walk-ins?


Up rotation; my dealership doesn't.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

The real question - if the salesperson doesn't know about the diesel, how knowledgeable is the service department likely to be? Given that the diesel isn't just a different engine but a whole different technology, maybe the salesperson is doing you a favor to turn you off of that dealer.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

ChevyGuy said:


> The real question - if the salesperson doesn't know about the diesel, how knowledgeable is the service department likely to be? Given that the diesel isn't just a different engine but a whole different technology, maybe the salesperson is doing you a favor to turn you off of that dealer.


I wouldn't judge a service department by their sales department (and vice versa).


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