# Subwoofer mounting



## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

You'll be the first I've heard of, but it's been discussed. I think mounting there would be a great idea, but make sure you pair it with a sub that can use the available space correctly and not be stifled. This may mean going with a smaller sub, but getting better sound because of it. Talk to XtremeRevolution on here, he designs boxes and I'm sure he could help.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I can help you here. Your estimated average space in inches is 15D x 25W x 4.5H up to the first ridge if you leave the carpeting in there and don't modify it. You could make this out of 1/2" MDF and have another 1/2" MDF with chamfers or roundovers on the edges (if you have a router) to flush mount the sub so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. If you were really set on doing this, you'd be limited to shallow mount subs. Figure a mounting depth of 4". 

For amps, you're going to have to mount them elsewhere. You won't have enough space to fit a respectable sub and an amp and give that amp enough ventilation in that cavity. I'd go with something like a Massive Audio N2 or N3 and mount it underneath the rear deck, running the sub wire underneath the carpet board. Something like this:

Massive Audio N2 Nano Monoblock 1600W Max Amplifier

It's small and will stay out of the way. 

For the cavity itself, you're looking at ~.68 cubic feet sealed. A port will use up more volume and won't be worth it, so we need to find something that works well in .68 cubic feet sealed and has a mounting depth of under 4". 

The first _affordable _sub that came to mind that actually works well in that amount of space is this one, which would be a perfect fit for the Massive Audio N2:

Tang Band WT-1427G 10" Neo Subwoofer 264-862

Two of these would also work wonderfully:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-132

This will work briliantly in that amount of space, and you could even shave down the space a bit if you wanted a complete flush mount of the sub. It works so well in fact that I'm considering buying one and making a box to sell other people.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I put a thread about this in the site suggestions section. If the moderators don't object, I can create a group buy to gauge some interest in building boxes like this for two 8" Thin Dayton subs and a Massive NX2 amp, or the TangBand 10" sub and a Massive N2 amp. I could do it relatively cheap (compared to getting an audio shop to custom build you one) if I could get a few people who wanted something like this.


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## 4piecekit (Mar 17, 2011)

I would love to utilize the spare tire space but I actually have a spare tire. I am sure this would look very stock and professional. My sub box has a tendency to 'walk' a bit around my trunk and I even think of this every time I take a corner.


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

I was thinking of doing a pair of 8" or 10" shallow mounts in the channel, mount the amp upside down under the window between the factory speakers and doing the bottom of the enclosure in fiberglass, not MDF. I will most likely build a flat piece to mimic the factory cover (which I do not have, unfortunately), cut holes out to expose the subs, cover it all with acoustically transparent carpet, and there ya go. I have every woodworking tool imaginable, shouldn't be a big deal.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tonka said:


> I was thinking of doing a pair of 8" or 10" shallow mounts in the channel, mount the amp upside down under the window between the factory speakers and doing the bottom of the enclosure in fiberglass, not MDF. I will most likely build a flat piece to mimic the factory cover (which I do not have, unfortunately), cut holes out to expose the subs, cover it all with acoustically transparent carpet, and there ya go. I have every woodworking tool imaginable, shouldn't be a big deal.


If you want to go fiberglass, go for it, but think twice before you settle on a specific sub. Not all subs work well in small boxes. If you want to go with fiberglass, you'll get a bit more space. Will you be keeping the factory carpet pad in there?


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm looking specifically for shallow mount subs that work in small space, found several that work in 0.35-0.70 boxes. Found a Pioneer that has a 3" mounting depth, too.

I haven't looked too much into the trunk carpeting or padding... I will probably just leave it as factory as possible, without removing the pad. Basically, I will cover the entire hole with 3 or 4 layers of tape, 'glass it, let it cure, pull it out, then thicken it up a bit. Top piece will just be flat and simple.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tonka said:


> I'm looking specifically for shallow mount subs that work in small space, found several that work in 0.35-0.70 boxes. Found a Pioneer that has a 3" mounting depth, too.
> 
> I haven't looked too much into the trunk carpeting or padding... I will probably just leave it as factory as possible, without removing the pad. Basically, I will cover the entire hole with 3 or 4 layers of tape, 'glass it, let it cure, pull it out, then thicken it up a bit. Top piece will just be flat and simple.


Have you actually modeled any of these subs to see what they would look like? Shallow mount doesn't always equal "works well in small sealed boxes." That particular sub is garbage; I didn't recommend it for a good reason. That Qms of 13.2 and Qts of 0.93 were the first red flag. When I actually modeled it, there was a huge peak between 50 and 65hz, meaning this would sound horribly boomy, uncontrolled, and flat out terrible. I can show you the in-cab response sim if you really want to see it. You wouldn't be able to pay me to use it. It's more suited for open baffle designs such as if you wanted to mount it in your rear deck free-air. The very low 5.5mm of xmax was the second red flag that steered me away from it. 

The two best affordable shallow mount subs that I was able to find are the ones I listed in my post earlier. You could probably fit two of those 10" TangBand subs in there as they seem to work quite well in very small boxes.

Let me know if you want me to model any of those in particular. Just give me a gross volume to work with and we can go from there.


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, I want something that can go loud, play pretty much any kind of music, and give the kids "a massage" through the seats (that's what they call it). Honestly, I doubt a shallow mount or two will be able to do the last part, but bottom line, I want some bass. I've never heard of either brand you recommended. Are they up and coming or something?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tonka said:


> Well, I want something that can go loud, play pretty much any kind of music, and give the kids "a massage" through the seats (that's what they call it). Honestly, I doubt a shallow mount or two will be able to do the last part, but bottom line, I want some bass. I've never heard of either brand you recommended. Are they up and coming or something?


I'm not saying this to be rude, but you haven't heard 90% of the truly awesome speaker manufacturers out there. What's found in retail stores is usually junk. Big box names are something we laugh about in the DIY home theater community. 

TangBand has been making speaker drivers for a very long time. They make absolutely incredible drivers and a vast array of them as well. They are very high up there in quality. 

Dayton is the poor man's reference speaker. They are designed in the USA and Denmark but manufactured in China to keep costs low. However, their quality control is **** near perfect and all of their products are superb. Their RS series line of woofers and tweeters compete with the Seas and Scanspeak products out there, and if you recognize those names, you'll understand the gravity of their performance. Extremely high quality parts. What they don't do is a whole lot of marketing. They are generally geared toward the DIY home theater crowd that I'm a part of, but they've been gaining a lot of ground in the DIY car audio crowd, especially with their Dayton RS HO 10" subwoofer. It's a peoples' favorite over on many car audio boards because it's cheap, accurate, durable, and no-frills full on performance. They aren't flashy subs, but they deliver and they deliver the bass and punch you need and put all of the flashy big box subs to shame and even some of the more respected and well-known brands like JL, RE, and Fi. 

Choose between the 8" Dayton subs or the 10" Tang Band subs I listed and you won't be disappointed. 

Since you're glassing, I'll assume you'll have ~.7 cubic feet of gross volume to work with. I went ahead and modeled the 3 subs mentioned here. Click to enlarge. These modeled sims include the cabin transfer function a Cruze would expect to have on the subs. 

2x Dayton 8":









2x TangBand 10":









1x Pioneer 10":









Analysis:
The 10" TangBands are the clear winner out of all of these if you don't mind the extra $75 on the pair over the Daytons. Otherwise, the 8" Daytons are your next best bet. You'll notice that the TangBands have much better response down low. Not only that, but they have 9mm of electrical excursion over the 7mm of electrical excursion that the Daytons have. 

These charts shouldn't be compared for actual SPL values, but rather for frequency response curves. The TangBands have better extension down to 40hz before they really start to roll off, while the Daytons will roll off sooner. It may not look like a big difference to you, but consider that every 10db increase in SPL is perceived by the human ear as a doubling in volume, so every 1db is 10% louder. More specifically, every 1db difference represents a 10% difference to the output of other frequencies. the Qtc of .58 and .63 for the Daytons and TangBands indicates that these will sound very tight, accurate, and will have excellent transient response. I like to keep Qtc no higher than .74, with lower values being better and higher values being worse. Anything above .8 is going to start sounding boomy and flat out bad. 

The Pioneer is modeled in the exact same volumetric space alone, and you can clearly see the peak I was referring to at 50hz, and the Qtc of 1.15 seals the deal. Stay away from this sub if you want to put it in a box. 

My recommendation: Buy the TangBands if you can afford them. Otherwise, buy the Daytons. The TangBands will need a combined 300-400W @ 2ohms (or 150-200W x 2 @ 4ohms), while the Daytons will need a combined 300-400W @ 4 ohms (or 150-200W @ 2 ohms). 

You are entirely free to give them more power so long as you watch your gains and don't cause them to bottom out, but don't give them _less _power. I ran two IDQ10 V2s (rated at 250W RMS each) off of 1000W RMS and they were the cleanest, most beautiful sounding subs I had ever heard. They did bottom out if I pushed them, but the clean power ensured that I didn't clip them.


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

My old set up was just a Kenwood amp (500w RMS, 1000w max) and a pair of 10" Kenwood subs. Sounded OK, but was muffled through the leather seats I had in my CompG Grand Prix. I have a pair of 12" Fosgates lying around, but honestly, I don't want a massive box taking up half my trunk. I will look into the TangBand subs and probably run them off the Kenwood amp.


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## DCfromSTP (Mar 26, 2012)

i might be interested in buying a box if you do this


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

Now the one thing I've learned in my time doing stereo systems in my cars, box placement and orientation is huge. Would I be better off mounting them somewhere else in the trunk? Am I going to lose much mounting them in the trunk floor?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tonka said:


> Now the one thing I've learned in my time doing stereo systems in my cars, box placement and orientation is huge. Would I be better off mounting them somewhere else in the trunk? Am I going to lose much mounting them in the trunk floor?


Box placement is indeed huge. Generally, you want subs firing toward the rear of the car, as close to the rear of the car as possible. This effectively turns the trunk into a horn and amplifies the sound. The technical term is "Boundary Loading." I can't say for sure how much you'll lose by mounting them in the floor, but you'll certainly get a good amount of bass out of two 10" subs. You seem to want to save your trunk space, so this is going to be the best way to do that. Otherwise, you'll be looking at building a box.



DCfromSTP said:


> i might be interested in buying a box if you do this


Is that directed toward me?


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

It seems like I might be able to put them near the back of the pit, then angle them down about 15 degrees towards the back of the car, since I'm going to make a cover anyway.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tonka said:


> It seems like I might be able to put them near the back of the pit, then angle them down about 15 degrees towards the back of the car, since I'm going to make a cover anyway.


Sounds good. The TangBands in particular work well in even smaller boxes than what I specified, but don't go too small. I modeled those around .7 cubic feet gross. I don't suspect you'll go below that, but if you have to, I wouldn't go below .6 cubic feet. I would flush mount them if I were you.


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm going to give them the entire space, so hopefully that will be enough.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tonka said:


> I'm going to give them the entire space, so hopefully that will be enough.


Looks like it should be. I'm seeing people put these in as little as .25 cubic feet each. They're pretty impressive little drivers. Don't let the small motor fool you; that's neodymium.


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## Tonka (Mar 27, 2012)

Can you model this for me, using one or two subs?

Tang Band WQ-1814S 12" Subwoofer 264-896


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tonka said:


> Can you model this for me, using one or two subs?
> 
> Tang Band WQ-1814S 12" Subwoofer 264-896


I already looked at that one and didn't recommend it for a reason. See the specs: only 4mm of xmax. The 10" subs have 9.5mm of xmax. Huge difference. No point in even modeling it as it won't perform as well as the others.


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## lil_hwe (Jun 6, 2012)

Has anyone had success in designing an enclosure to fit on either side of the trunk at the rear in the open/useless space behind the wheels? I'm looking at buying a Cruze and I'd like to get something to put there so I don't lose too much trunk space.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

lil_hwe said:


> Has anyone had success in designing an enclosure to fit on either side of the trunk at the rear in the open/useless space behind the wheels? I'm looking at buying a Cruze and I'd like to get something to put there so I don't lose too much trunk space.


That would have to be a custom fiberglass enclosure. Those are usually not cheap or easy to make. 

I am in the process of making one that fits the hole in the floor of the trunk on the Cruze Eco though.


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## cruze16ls (May 4, 2012)

This can be intresting if you don't have high end target


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## lil_hwe (Jun 6, 2012)

I did find that after I posted. Looks like it might be a good option...


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## garypaul (Aug 8, 2012)

I have the "premium sound" in a 2012 Cruze LT. So the two lwft and right rear speakers are the subwoofers. I would like to upgrade this possibly into one bigger sub-woofer. However what would you recommend? 





XtremeRevolution said:


> Box placement is indeed huge. Generally, you want subs firing toward the rear of the car, as close to the rear of the car as possible. This effectively turns the trunk into a horn and amplifies the sound. The technical term is "Boundary Loading." I can't say for sure how much you'll lose by mounting them in the floor, but you'll certainly get a good amount of bass out of two 10" subs. You seem to want to save your trunk space, so this is going to be the best way to do that. Otherwise, you'll be looking at building a box.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that directed toward me?


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## metblack6spd (Dec 14, 2011)

just finished my install last night actually, not sure if i want to keep it poly the way it is right now or lay carbon fiber vinyl or carpet yet.
but here are some pics, lemme know if you have any Q's


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

garypaul said:


> I have the "premium sound" in a 2012 Cruze LT. So the two lwft and right rear speakers are the subwoofers. I would like to upgrade this possibly into one bigger sub-woofer. However what would you recommend?


Depends on how much you want to spend really, and what your goals are. Do you want sound quality, do you want something just plain loud, or do you want both (expensive)? How much space can you spare?


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## garypaul (Aug 8, 2012)

Sound quality.. Loud sound quality


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

garypaul said:


> Sound quality.. Loud sound quality


Define "loud." What have you heard in the past that is loud? Just so I get a feel for it. 

Expect to spend at least $600, on amplifier, subwoofer, and box. That assumes you'd have me build the box per my pricing. If you can build your own, more power to you; subtract ~$175-$200.


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## garypaul (Aug 8, 2012)

I already have 2 subwoofers in the back.. I want to use the leads going into them and put in a larger one. I had a Chevy Cobalt that had a great subwoofer do you remember those? I want the same idea.. I am thinking I would not need an amp>


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

garypaul said:


> I already have 2 subwoofers in the back.. I want to use the leads going into them and put in a larger one. I had a Chevy Cobalt that had a great subwoofer do you remember those? I want the same idea.. I am thinking I would not need an amp>


What do you mean by using the leads going to them and put in a larger one? Are you referring to using the wiring that currently goes to the rear 6x9 subwoofers to power different subwoofers? If that's what you're looking for, I have a few ideas...


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## garypaul (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

garypaul said:


> Yes!


Ok. Now we're talking. With this setup, we're going to be limited to high efficiency in a ported box. The reason for this is that the factory subs back there don't get a whole lot of power compared to an aftermarket amplifier. The bigger the sub, the more efficiency it will have (the louder it will play). However, we need subs that are large, but also play in small ported boxes. Ported boxes are also more efficient than sealed boxes due to the augmented output of the port. We also need two ports in order to run the two leads from the rear subs, since we cannot bridge them. 

There are really only three questions you need to answer now:

1. how much money can you spend?
2. will you be building the box?
3. how much space can you spare?


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## garypaul (Aug 8, 2012)

I live in the Chicago area as well, it might be easier if I called you. 

This is what I had in the Cobalt.. and it definetly sounded better than the Premium subwoofer in the right and left rear of the Cruze. It was mounted vertical on the driver side in the trunk:

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]*10" Dual Voice Coil High Excursion Subwoofer* for higher output and less distortion. This subwoofer operates using a dual voice coil in a 2-Ohm load, to produce clean deep bass response for all types of music. The woofer also incorporates the latest speaker cone technology called Pioneer IMPP (Injection Molded Poly Propylene) to prevent the speaker cone from flexing or breaking up. This results in smoother output. In addition it has a bumped back plate for longer woofer movement. The subwoofer will not bottom out, and has higher output capabilities compared to standard subwoofers. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]*Enclosure for subwoofer* is located in the left rear section of the Cobalt's trunk. This 18 liter size molded enclosure was specially designed and accurately sound tuned to work with the woofer and provide extended smooth deep bass response. This allows subwoofer to play low frequencies.[/FONT] 

[/FONT][/FONT]


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## Shane (Aug 11, 2012)

i dunno if anyone has posted this yet. but i am a member on the J-Body (cavalier) forum and a member did this. putting 3 10" subs in his spare tire well. and he did a how-to on the forum on how here did his and it looks very clean.

How To Custom Build Dashes, Sub Enclosures, Trim Panels, etc - Interior Forum - j-body.org - the jbody organization


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Shane said:


> i dunno if anyone has posted this yet. but i am a member on the J-Body (cavalier) forum and a member did this. putting 3 10" subs in his spare tire well. and he did a how-to on the forum on how here did his and it looks very clean.
> 
> How To Custom Build Dashes, Sub Enclosures, Trim Panels, etc - Interior Forum - j-body.org - the jbody organization


That's not really a how-to so much as it's a project showcase. Fiberglass isn't practical for most people to use and you need some experience to even attempt something like this. It's good work, no doubt, but not something that most people willing to do on their own. Most people barely have the tools to build a basic MDF box. 

garypaul, I sent you a PM with my phone number.


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