# Fuel Question



## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm jealous ... you have an Eco AND a diesel! There are additives for diesel if you want to boost your Cetane numbers (that's equivalent to Octane in regular gasoline) but I personally don't know of a "top tier" rating on diesel fuel other than having a higher Cetane number. I DO know that I would certainly not want any water in it as water will not simply burn through on a diesel engine like it does on a gas burner (we've all seen those cars that take off from a stop or go around a corner and it looks like their tailpipe just came out of a carwash) So it might be worth spending the extra couple dollars at a "top tier" selling station.

Here's a link to Edmunds.com: http://answers.edmunds.com/ViewQuestion.aspx?questionId=98539

Here's a link to Bob is the oil guy: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3555872/Top_tier_diesel?


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## GMMillwright (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks for those links. The ECO will become my son's car this summer when he starts driving. "Millenial proof" because it's a stick, lol. Should keep his hands off the phone while he drives.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I live in Australia and the Cetane here is at least 50 by law. The guys on here recommend using a busy service station to avoid getting stale fuel.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

GMMillwright said:


> Just picked up my new '15 CTD. Should I stick to Shell brand diesel or save a couple bucks per tank on Kroger brand? Is there an equivalent diesel fuel rating to "Top Tier", like in gasoline? Is there any reason to use an additive of some sort? Thanks.


It has been my observation that money saved by buying cheap fuel is not money saved at all.

Shell offers a premium diesel in and around the Seattle area, and throughout Canada.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Congrats on the new diesel! I have driven 160K miles on mine so far. No additives ever and sometimes buy fuel at one particular Kroger, but the one thing I always try to do is buy fuel from stations that sell a lot of fuel. Once I have a good experience from a station, i stick with the same station in the different areas I fill up. 95 % of the time I use Gulf or Shell. Sometimes Sheetz and once in while when I am in that particular area and need fuel, a Kroger. IMO, high volume is more important than brand.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

diesel said:


> IMO, high volume is more important than brand.


I agree 1000%


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## Kexlox (Nov 4, 2014)

GMMillwright said:


> Just picked up my new '15 CTD. Should I stick to Shell brand diesel or save a couple bucks per tank on Kroger brand? Is there an equivalent diesel fuel rating to "Top Tier", like in gasoline? Is there any reason to use an additive of some sort? Thanks.


I would say 80% of my fuel has been purchased at Kroger stations over the last 42K miles. I just changed my fuel filter yesterday, and if there was any water in it, I couldn't tell. I always check prices at gasbuddy.com before filling up. I've seen differences as large as $0.40 a gallon just by going two miles down the road.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

As others have stated, it is very important to buy your fuel from a high volume station to reduce the chance of getting bad fuel. I also try to avoid getting fuel from a station while they are refilling the tanks or have just refilled the tanks as this tends to stir up sediment and mix any water into the fuel...

Most importantly READ the label on the pump BEFORE you start to pump, and make sure it says DIESEL FUEL!!! Misfueling can cause major damage to your high pressure fuel system. DO NOT rely on the color of the handle. While many stations use green handles for diesel fuel not all do, and some stations actually use green handles for gas and black handles for diesel like the BP stations in our area. I have been running the Walmart/Murphy brand fuel or BP in my diesel cars and trucks with no problem for years and years...

I have added Power Service gray bottle to my fuel but not every single tank and mostly in my Duramax truck not our VW TDIs. I have used Schaeffer's Soy Shield in the TDI for a few tanks and really did not see a difference in performance.


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## Cruzator (Dec 31, 2014)

Just throw some french fry grease in there, so you don't have to worry about whether you are getting good fuel or not. YOU KNOW YOU AREN'T! I completely agree with the high volume stations.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Fuel is fuel, save your money and get it cheap. High volume stations are a good idea. That's everywhere where I live so I don't think much about it but I suppose it might be more of an issue in really urban areas.


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## Overspray (Jun 16, 2014)

Agreed. I use only Kroger (discount) or Speedway. Both don't charge extra for using a card. Both in my area have high turnover rate of diesel because up here in MI, especially on the outskirts of farm land, lots of big diesel trucks running around. 31k so far and no issues at all.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yep, we generally fill up at Meijer or Kroger, depending on the price - occasionally Speedway.

A million diesel trucks out by us though, so I'd say there's pretty good demand.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

I go to the Wawa down the street from me. They let me pump it myself and leave me alone (being in New Jersey this is a big plus personally), plus the local ambulance transport company fuels their ambulances there so the fuel is used. I add PowerService DieselKleen to every tank as well.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

CruzeDan said:


> I go to the Wawa down the street from me. They let me pump it myself and leave me alone (being in New Jersey this is a big plus personally), plus the local ambulance transport company fuels their ambulances there so the fuel is used. I add PowerService DieselKleen to every tank as well.


I never understood that rule in NJ. I had no idea about it and stopped in NJ to refuel once. They ran up to me yelling and freaking out that I would dare refuel my own car.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> They ran up to me yelling and freaking out that I would dare refuel my own car.


I would tell them that "Only I refuel my car", and continue filling, ignoring them any further. I'm not paying someone else to put fuel in my vehicle.

With diesel, it's not even a safety issue - a lot harder to make it go boom compared to gas.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I actually thought in NJ it only applied to gasoline so technically you can pump your own diesel. Might of read that on tdiclub before.

Who knows I'm far from certain


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I actually thought in NJ it only applied to gasoline so technically you can pump your own diesel. Might of read that on tdiclub before.
> 
> Who knows I'm far from certain


That's true for Oregon (the other state where you're not allowed to pump your own gas). The rule only applies to "Class 1" flammables. Diesel is Class 2 so therefore the rules do not apply to diesel, but the vast majority of stations/gas pumpers do not know that so they get all weird if you try to pump your own diesel. I gave up trying, but I watch them like a hawk and try to avoid pumps where there are diesel and gasoline hoses on the same pump kiosk.

Technically there is a $500 fine for violating the rule (for gasoline, not diesel since it doesn't apply), but I've never heard of it actually being enforced.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

I pumped my own diesel in NJ on my last trip up there...


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> I have been running the Walmart/Murphy brand fuel or BP in my diesel cars and trucks with no problem for years and years...


LOL on that Murphy diesel esp if one lives in a state where it gets cold and states like Illinois where B20 is everywhere. This past winter when it was 5 F outside and their diesel was soooo poorly winterized that you could not pump from their pumps. The station attendant said "it OK... its just gelling... come back when it warms up outside??? From what I see the attraction to discount stations are their prices but you can NOT count on the quality when it comes to diesel. They are cheating some where, whether the diesel has been poorly handled and is old and stale with algae and water, low cetane, high BIO content, and/or not properly winterized. I buy only at high volume truck stops and when out of town buy only from established brands and NEVER Murphy again... you pay for what you get!! Always use an additive because when pumping diesel you never know for sure what you are getting, no labels on the diesel pumps in Illinois. I use Power Service white in the truck and Stanadyne in the Cruze, shop major truck stops and you should be good to go when you want to go whether cold (-37 F) or hot weather.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

theonlypheonix said:


> LOL on that Murphy diesel esp if one lives in a state where it gets cold and states like Illinois where B20 is everywhere. This past winter when it was 5 F outside and their diesel was soooo poorly winterized that you could not pump from their pumps. The station attendant said "it OK... its just gelling... come back when it warms up outside??? From what I see the attraction to discount stations are their prices but you can NOT count on the quality when it comes to diesel. They are cheating some where, whether the diesel has been poorly handled and is old and stale with algae and water, low cetane, high BIO content, and/or not properly winterized. I buy only at high volume truck stops and when out of town buy only from established brands and NEVER Murphy again... you pay for what you get!! Always use an additive because when pumping diesel you never know for sure what you are getting, no labels on the diesel pumps in Illinois. I use Power Service white in the truck and Stanadyne in the Cruze, shop major truck stops and you should be good to go when you want to go whether cold (-37 F) or hot weather.


The Murphy station in our small town is probably the largest fuel seller with many semis filling up there as well. I have used it for our VW TDIs as well as my Duramax truck with no problems at all even after days below freezing, but never as low as you are in a northern state. I wonder if the B20 content is as much or more of a problem than the fact it came from a Murphy station. Lately our BP station recently installed diesel pumps and has been around 5-15 cents cheaper per gallon than Murphy so I have been filling up there a lot as well with no problems their either.

When I am on the road covering events and such, I look for major brands and high volume stations as well as prices and tend to pump at Murphy stations if they have them in the areas where we are traveling. I have yet to have a bad fuel situation thankfully.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> The Murphy station in our small town is probably the largest fuel seller with many semis filling up there as well.


:sigh: I believe you have highlighted the important difference! Our Murphys is a small, less then year old, added on after thought to the local new Wally World. The lane and islands are small and one could not even get a semi through if one tried, contrasting yours is a truck stop! Our truck stop outside of town is a high volume Petro, one of the largest and most popular in this part of the country. In 10 years shopping at Petro never had a single fuel issue, in fact in over 25 years of owning diesel vehicles never had a fuel problem until the cold weather rolled in and shopping at our local new Murphys. Yes their pricing is tempting and enticing to buy their diesel but as Clint Eastwood would say "do you feel lucky"!! :wub:

One needs to analyze the basic moral/ethical values and training at Murphys... they knew they had a gelling problem and they did NOT take their diesel pumps out of service! Their attendant said "its ok... its just gelling", they knew and they continued to sell the bad under treated fuel if one poor sap could get it out of the pump and into their vehicles tank! They knew and they did not stop the sale of their diesel so that THEY COULD CONTINUE TO PROFIT from the misfortune of others. One needs to ask are all their stations as unethical?? :uhh: Where is the corporate training and guidance on how to handle these problem situations as they develop??


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Ya, they should have had proper fuel in the tank for sale in that region...

My experiences with Murphy/Walmart stations through various parts of the country where we have driven have been good.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

Just because it is high volume doesnt mean its good.

This guy hotshots (pickup truck hauling) for a living. He says this takes less than a minute to do. Notice where he said he tested these. 









All of your diesel, and gas too, comes from the same distributor. It is the additives that change.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

oldestof11 said:


> Just because it is high volume doesnt mean its good.
> 
> This guy hotshots (pickup truck hauling) for a living. He says this takes less than a minute to do. Notice where he said he tested these.
> 
> ...


So what am I looking at besides a green plastic bottle and a clear plastic bottle?


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Seems to be almost 50% water


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

Tomko said:


> So what am I looking at besides a green plastic bottle and a clear plastic bottle?


Water content.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Seems the diesel in Canada is much better. It's rare when we get screwed over with bad diesel


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## TheDog (Mar 27, 2014)

In my almost 2 years with the Diesel Cruze (and this forum) I haven't seen any evidence that the car is particularly picky about fuel. A few people have gotten non winterized fuel in winter (probably very low volume stations) but I haven't really heard of any widespread injector issues or performance differences between people who are picky about buying fuel and people who aren't or those who use additives vs those who don't. When I had a 2004 VW TDI it was the first year of the Pump Duse series engine and there were definite issues with marginal quality fuel and at that time I used additive with every fill in that car. I just don't see any evidence that the Cruze cares.

There are a fair number of people who have had emissions sensor issues (i had a few early on) but that group of people has absolutely included very careful picky fuel buyers so that certainly doesn't seem to prevent those issues. I do think it is imperative that a Dexos2 oil be used because the ash content (I think that was the main difference?) of non Dexos 2 oil can be high enough to cause too many regens etc.

Chris


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

oldestof11 said:


> Just because it is high volume doesnt mean its good.
> 
> This guy hotshots (pickup truck hauling) for a living. He says this takes less than a minute to do. Notice where he said he tested these.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's a huge percentage of water. I am a bit skeptical of that picture and would want to see for myself. We don't know for sure the person taking the picture didn't put the water in the bottles.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

When does summer diesel begin to show up? I assume they just mix summer diesel and winter diesel for awhile. It's spring but was in low 20s here in Indy this morning.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> When does summer diesel begin to show up? I assume they just mix summer diesel and winter diesel for awhile. It's spring but was in low 20s here in Indy this morning.


I heard April 15 and October 15 are the cutoff dates, but I have no data to back up that claim.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

diesel said:


> Wow, that's a huge percentage of water. I am a bit skeptical of that picture and would want to see for myself. We don't know for sure the person taking the picture didn't put the water in the bottles.


He had been keeping the post updated. I'll see if there is another pic but I have no reason to assume he is lying. He says it takes about 1 minute to separate enough to see the water content.


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## putercents (Apr 1, 2016)

diesel said:


> I heard April 15 and October 15 are the cutoff dates, but I have no data to back up that claim.


Here in Canada the fuel distributor determines the specifications for the fuel. I deliver to Northern Ontario and it is not unheard of to have a blend of #1 and #2 fuel requested in the delivery, then latter in the month to request only the #1 fuel that meets a colder spec. At the time of switch over it is not uncommon to not have fuel from the refinery that meets the spec and we are unable to get fuel. Phone calls are made to those well above my paygrade to sort that issue. While "thinner" fuel is being delivered north, a warmer blend fuel is still being delivered to the GTA The fuel pipelines that go from refineries all deliver different fuels from the same "pipe". Hydraulic pressure moves the varying fuels along the pipe. At the farm, they monitor the arrivals, and switch the flow to the correct tank. It is fascinating to watch and be awed at how differing fuels all arrive from the same pipe. Fuel density is adjusted to the region the fuel is being sold. It would never be a good idea to purchase fuel from a warmer area, then transport it to a cold area. Occasionally transport trucks have this issue when they get stale fuel from a station and drive to a cold part of the country. The weight of diesel fuel changes daily due to temps, and how the fuel is adapted to not gel in the winter. Aviation fuel which is a close cousin of diesel actually gets tested for absorbed water and the density at every delivery. Occasionally when a sudden cold snap comes, we must let the aviation fuel sit to wait for the absorbed water content to separate. There is more energy in a gallon of diesel in the summer than a gallon of diesel in the winter. We pull up to a diesel station, do you know if the fuel is #1 diesel, or #2 diesel? lol *Diesel* fuel is available in two grades, #*1 and* #*2*, as well as a “winterized” blend. There are major advantages *and* disadvantages for each


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

putercents said:


> Here in Canada the fuel distributor determines the specifications for the fuel. I deliver to Northern Ontario and it is not unheard of to have a blend of #1 and #2 fuel requested in the delivery, then latter in the month to request only the #1 fuel that meets a colder spec. At the time of switch over it is not uncommon to not have fuel from the refinery that meets the spec and we are unable to get fuel. Phone calls are made to those well above my paygrade to sort that issue. While "thinner" fuel is being delivered north, a warmer blend fuel is still being delivered to the GTA The fuel pipelines that go from refineries all deliver different fuels from the same "pipe". Hydraulic pressure moves the varying fuels along the pipe. At the farm, they monitor the arrivals, and switch the flow to the correct tank. It is fascinating to watch and be awed at how differing fuels all arrive from the same pipe. Fuel density is adjusted to the region the fuel is being sold. It would never be a good idea to purchase fuel from a warmer area, then transport it to a cold area. Occasionally transport trucks have this issue when they get stale fuel from a station and drive to a cold part of the country. The weight of diesel fuel changes daily due to temps, and how the fuel is adapted to not gel in the winter. Aviation fuel which is a close cousin of diesel actually gets tested for absorbed water and the density at every delivery. Occasionally when a sudden cold snap comes, we must let the aviation fuel sit to wait for the absorbed water content to separate. There is more energy in a gallon of diesel in the summer than a gallon of diesel in the winter. We pull up to a diesel station, do you know if the fuel is #1 diesel, or #2 diesel? lol *Diesel* fuel is available in two grades, #*1 and* #*2*, as well as a “winterized” blend. There are major advantages *and* disadvantages for each


Your posts from your perspective as someone in the industry are very interesting! Thanks for sharing!


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

So diesels are prone to worse fuel mileage in the winter compared to the summer just from fuel blends? I thought that was only a gas thing.


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## putercents (Apr 1, 2016)

money_man said:


> So diesels are prone to worse fuel mileage in the winter compared to the summer just from fuel blends? I thought that was only a gas thing.


Diesel fuel has a much greater loss of energy content than gasoline. In July take a litre of diesel, leave it in a container and leave it outside until February and observe how it looks like the consistency of yogurt. All the wax is removed in the winter to prevent the fuel from gelling up. If you drive from Florida to Minnesota, fill up 4 times, each fill up will have a pronounced blend from #2 the standard, to a 65-35 blend at the final fill up. Gasoline does not thicken in the winter, but becomes too volatile in the summer. Vapor lock is gasoline's issue.


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