# Just got a call from the dealership....



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Aren't those covered under the emissions warranty?


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

There's been three or four def tanks replaced so far. IIRC there's a revised part now and new number. 

I've also replaced two side detection sensors. 

I'm at 3/49 of my 7/100 GMPP.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

obermd said:


> Aren't those covered under the emissions warranty?


It sounds like none of this is covered under Powertrain warranty. I would certainly think it should...


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

obermd said:


> Aren't those covered under the emissions warranty?


essentially nothing is covered by emissions warranty


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> essentially nothing is covered by emissions warranty


Well these would be - but the emissions warranty is only 3 years/36,000 miles, and somehow is separate from the Powertrain warranty - even though the exhaust/emissions is definitely part of PT.

Since we have this incoming recall for NOx1 and the O2 sensor - I'm wondering if we have them replace those right now, if we can be refunded that cost of parts/labor once the recall goes into effect. It looks like the sensors won't be a different part number - but the ECM is being recalled to reduce soot build up...but I'm not sure.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

MP81 said:


> Well these would be - but the emissions warranty is only 3 years/36,000 miles, and somehow is separate from the Powertrain warranty - even though the exhaust/emissions is definitely part of PT.
> 
> Since we have this incoming recall for NOx1 and the O2 sensor - I'm wondering if we have them replace those right now, if we can be refunded that cost of parts/labor once the recall goes into effect. It looks like the sensors won't be a different part number - but the ECM is being recalled to reduce soot build up...but I'm not sure.


Emissions warranties are set by law to be at least 7 years/70K miles. The Bumper to Bumper is 3 years/36K miles. The problem is emissions warranties don't cover a lot of the sensors that are required for the rest of the system to operate properly.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/d.../Warranty/02-pdfs/2k14chev_lim_wm2ndprint.pdf

7 years/70k miles..._in California_, not Federal. And actually, I misspoke - it's 2 years/24k miles...so even less.



Warranty "Page" 23 said:


> Federal Warranty Coverage. Car or Light Duty Truck with aGross Vehicle WeightRating (GVWR) of 8,500 lbs.or less‐* 2 years or 24,000 miles* and8 years or 80,000 miles for thecatalytic converter, vehicle/powertrain control module,transmission control module orother onboard emissionsdiagnostic device, includingemission-related software,whichever comes first.


Which is some serious BS.

All of our sensors and aftertreatment equipment _are_ covered, just not for long.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

What is sad is the engine and transmission seems like a great powertrain and I am pretty confident there will not be major problems there and that has the longest warranty, but the emissions is the potential problem and quite expensive to repair when it goes bad and can restrict speed if not repaired and warranty is very unclear and shorter, makes zero sense.:uhh:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yep...it's pretty irritating, really. It's one thing if parts fail - that happens...but to not cover it, on such a low-mileage newer vehicle...that's what upsets me.

Going to pick the car up after work, guess we'll keep driving it until it begins to warn us about impending speed limitation, and then we'll figure out what to do from there.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Got the car back, runs fine - got the invoice (their copy had all the part numbers, but I know what they are because I know of a cool Cruze forum), codes were: P11D7, P1033, P22FA, P21DD.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

MP81 said:


> Got the car back, runs fine - got the invoice (their copy had all the part numbers, but I know what they are because I know of a cool Cruze forum), codes were: P11D7, P1033, P22FA, P21DD.


I Had P11d7 code. I've noticed nothing since it's been fixed except the remote start works.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

money_man said:


> I Had P11d7 code. I've noticed nothing since it's been fixed except the remote start works.


i still havent fixed my p11d7 lol


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## LulzT1 (Aug 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> money_man said:
> 
> 
> > I Had P11d7 code. I've noticed nothing since it's been fixed except the remote start works.
> ...


Same, it's gone on / off six times since beginning of June. The fix is just a new downstream NOx sensor?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Okay - so it sounds like the P11D7 = NOx #2, and will not cause a speed limitation? Kind of like a rear O2 code.

With that new recall in-process, as long as it's ready in time, I can have the O2 and NOx #1 replaced for free. 

The big question is that DEF heater, and what that will do. I'm not keen on spending $400 for a new tank, when one part is bad, and the rest is fine.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

LulzT1 said:


> Same, it's gone on / off six times since beginning of June. The fix is just a new downstream NOx sensor?


the recall notice from MONTHS ago said new sensor and programming.

i clear the code it goes away for a month or two then comes back

on the scanner it still show it even if the CEL on the dash is gone.

zero impact on driveability this entire time


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Sounds like I'll be clearing some codes today.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

LulzT1 said:


> Same, it's gone on / off six times since beginning of June. The fix is just a new downstream NOx sensor?


Fix for my code is a new sensor. It stops the remote start from working when the cel is on


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

My wife finally got the message about a mile from our house today - 99 miles to 65 mph limit. The DEF light on the cluster is now illuminated, and the DIC will not display anything other than "Service Exhaust Fluid" "See Owner's Manual Now" "XX Miles to 65 mph Limit". 

She was pissed. I'm not too happy either.

So...yeah, guess the car is getting parked for a while. I'm not paying to replace (whether I or the dealer does it) all these expensive parts on a barely 2 year old car. 

The fact this is not covered under warranty, or a recall (I know the O2 and the NOX1 sensors are, but when that comes out is anyone's guess - but what about NOX2 and the DEF heater?), is *very* disappointing.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Covered for those who purchased GMPP.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Shouldn't have to buy extra warranty to cover this da&#55357;&#56883;N emission stuff. Gm should cover this stuff. If I were in your shoes I might delete this crap that gm doesn't cover if your state doesn't test emissions.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> Shouldn't have to buy extra warranty to cover this da��N emission stuff. Gm should cover this stuff. If I were in your shoes I might delete this crap that gm doesn't cover if your state doesn't test emissions.


Trust me - the thought isn't buried too far back in my mind. Michigan doesn't have emissions tests, so that wouldn't be an issue. It'd be nearly the same cost too, it's just a matter of timing. Luckily she's able to drive the Cav and I can drive the Cobalt, but she's definitely not pleased about her car not being usable. 

All because you might pollute a little more. How's that remotely a safe tradeoff?

I have no issue being a beta-tester/guinea pig for this equipment - none at all. But feel free to not force me to pay for the parts if they break...


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Trust me - the thought isn't buried too far back in my mind. Michigan doesn't have emissions tests, so that wouldn't be an issue. It'd be nearly the same cost too, it's just a matter of timing. Luckily she's able to drive the Cav and I can drive the Cobalt, but she's definitely not pleased about her car not being usable.
> 
> All because you might pollute a little more. How's that remotely a safe tradeoff?
> 
> I have no issue being a beta-tester/guinea pig for this equipment - none at all. But feel free to not force me to pay for the parts if they break...


So what exactly do you think you need to get your car back on the road and the associated cost?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Assuming it's all still the same as when it was at the dealer (my code reader cannot read these codes - is there one out there that will, that doesn't also cost a fortune?), that would be the O2, NOX1 and NOX2 sensors, as well as the DEF heater (which I believe is in the tank, and not separately replaceable). 

So even if I replace these myself - you're still talking $230 per NOX sensor, $90 for the O2 sensor, and I think the lowest I've seen the DEF tank for is $350-400. So you're still talking $1000 in parts. 

If I do an emissions delete, would the sensors and DEF tank still need to be replaced, or would it no longer use DEF at all?



Since the message and the cluster light are for the DEF - my guess is the heater is causing the problem here, and not the sensors?

EDIT: Looking at it, it seems that I wouldn't need the whole tank - just the reservoir, which is $160. Probably easier to change, too.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Assuming it's all still the same as when it was at the dealer (my code reader cannot read these codes - is there one out there that will, that doesn't also cost a fortune?), that would be the O2, NOX1 and NOX2 sensors, as well as the DEF heater (which I believe is in the tank, and not separately replaceable).
> 
> So even if I replace these myself - you're still talking $230 per NOX sensor, $90 for the O2 sensor, and I think the lowest I've seen the DEF tank for is $350-400. So you're still talking $1000 in parts.
> 
> ...


This is all emission related, why doesn't the emissions warranty cover these parts?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Because it's only 2 years and 24k miles. 

Why on earth is it so short?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

If it is around $1000 in just parts, yikes that's a lot. I have had my car for 6.5 months and about 12000 miles driven and my cost for fuel only is $533. If we end up spending big money on emission related repairs we might as well delete the systems or drive something else. I love the car but I am not going to spend thousands on emission related repairs, also not going to spend huge money on some stupid extended warranty either that might not pay for itself and for those of us that keep the cars for a long time the time may expire and then still have a screwed up emission system. The engine and transmission minus the emissions is super reliable.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> This is all emission related, why doesn't the emissions warranty cover these parts?



An EPA complaint may be in order since it is part of the emissions system.....


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Because it's only 2 years and 24k miles.
> 
> Why on earth is it so short?


When I look at 2015 Chevrolet warranty booklet, it is confusing, on page 36 of 49 it has the def tank and sensors under the cat converter section which has longer warranty. Kinda confused.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> When I look at 2015 Chevrolet warranty booklet, it is confusing, on page 36 of 49 it has the def tank and sensors under the cat converter section which has longer warranty. Kinda confused.


It has the single asterisk, which means it (along with the DPF) is covered for 7 years/70k miles - if you have California emissions.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

So the radio is covered longer than the emissions stuff that has issues, well that makes perfect sense.ccasion14:


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

MP81 said:


> It has the single asterisk, which means it (along with the DPF) is covered for 7 years/70k miles - if you have California emissions.



Drive it to Cali.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

DslGate said:


> Drive it to Cali.


On a flat bed, he cant drive more than 99 miles according the DIC. :uhh:


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Assuming it's all still the same as when it was at the dealer (my code reader cannot read these codes - is there one out there that will, that doesn't also cost a fortune?), that would be the O2, NOX1 and NOX2 sensors, as well as the DEF heater (which I believe is in the tank, and not separately replaceable).
> 
> So even if I replace these myself - you're still talking $230 per NOX sensor, $90 for the O2 sensor, and I think the lowest I've seen the DEF tank for is $350-400. So you're still talking $1000 in parts.
> 
> ...


Wow, I wonder if all 4 components truly are bad, or if there's some false readings being generated and the issues really aren't as numerous. What is your next step?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> Wow, I wonder if all 4 components truly are bad, or if there's some false readings being generated and the issues really aren't as numerous. What is your next step?


This has been my question as well. I cleared the codes a few days back - and I don't believe they _immediately_ came back. But to be honest, I can't tell, because it cannot read what they are (except the P0133). I do have to imagine the DEF tank heater is malfunctioning, based on the DIC messages [that you cannot clear]. 

Next steps involve pursuing a couple avenues I may have, and if those turn up nothing (which would further disappoint me) in the next few days, then I will order the DEF Reservoir assembly (since that incorporates the heater), and install it myself and see if that solves it. I don't believe any of the sensors are causing (or will cause) a speed-limitation scenario like we are currently experiencing. 

For the time being, the car will just sit in front of the house, in time out.


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## Christopher_2 (Jul 31, 2012)

I would be performing a delete and tune, especially with this being a reoccurring issue.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Well it's not reoccurring to me, not yet. 

And a delete tune is not cheap, apparently.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Just a thought, with temps some of the hottest of the year, why would the def Heater even come on let alone trip a code?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> This has been my question as well. I cleared the codes a few days back - and I don't believe they _immediately_ came back. But to be honest, I can't tell, because it cannot read what they are (except the P0133). I do have to imagine the DEF tank heater is malfunctioning, based on the DIC messages [that you cannot clear].
> 
> Next steps involve pursuing a couple avenues I may have, and if those turn up nothing (which would further disappoint me) in the next few days, then I will order the DEF Reservoir assembly (since that incorporates the heater), and install it myself and see if that solves it. I don't believe any of the sensors are causing (or will cause) a speed-limitation scenario like we are currently experiencing.
> 
> For the time being, the car will just sit in front of the house, in time out.


My best guess on all this is that the DEF reservoir will restore drivability. I would also doublecheck intake hose clamps as they continue to work themselves loose over time and have the exhaust bolts/nuts at the SCR replaced with a new gasket. If you replace NOx sensor, at least you know it will be refunded to you at some point once the recall takes effect.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

My thinking is that as well. We'll see if/what I hear in the coming days, and I will order accordingly. Looks even easier to change than the tank.

A plus that we also have just gotten the warning to add DEF or there will be speed limitation, so I won't be working with a full tank, or parts covered in it.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

MP81 said:


> My thinking is that as well. We'll see if/what I hear in the coming days, and I will order accordingly. Looks even easier to change than the tank.
> 
> A plus that we also have just gotten the warning to add DEF or there will be speed limitation, so I won't be working with a full tank, or parts covered in it.



Is it possible that low DEF fluid is causing the tank or sensor to " overheat" thereby causing the issue? For example, I had a car that had a heater for windshield wiper fluid and if it got low,I'd get a code and /or the tank heater would fail. This was a common problem.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

DslGate said:


> Is it possible that low DEF fluid is causing the tank or sensor to " overheat" thereby causing the issue? For example, I had a car that had a heater for windshield wiper fluid and if it got low,I'd get a code and /or the tank heater would fail. This was a common problem.


I mean, it's possible - but when the code came on, there was probably 10-15% in the tank. It's a good theory, though - a lot of fuel pump failures are due to running low amounts for too long - cooks the pump, since it uses fuel to cool itself.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

DslGate said:


> Is it possible that low DEF fluid is causing the tank or sensor to " overheat" thereby causing the issue? For example, I had a car that had a heater for windshield wiper fluid and if it got low,I'd get a code and /or the tank heater would fail. This was a common problem.


Although inconclusive, I think there is some evidence to support this. I have never had an issue with mine in 178K miles so far, but I usually refill when it's at 35% or so. Never went lower than 25%. I keep my eye on it proactively. but there is a new part number, so apparently GM identified a flaw in the original.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> Although inconclusive, I think there is some evidence to support this. I have never had an issue with mine in 178K miles so far, but I usually refill when it's at 35% or so. Never went lower than 25%. I keep my eye on it proactively. but there is a new part number, so apparently GM identified a flaw in the original.


Yep, and ours has been below 25% for a few months now...so it's very possible. 

So the question is: Do I put 2.5 gallons in there and see if that does it - or do I replace the reservoir first. I'm guessing the former, as I can't imagine, with the reservoir coming out the top, that having more DEF in there will make any larger of a mess.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

You could add DEF and see if it goes away. If it does not, perhaps rig up a small pump or some sort to pump out the excess fluid, maybe a old windshield washer pump or something.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Would certainly be cheaper to add $8 in DEF and not have to replace a $160 assembly if that's all it is. 

I think if I pull the reservoir assembly out, the most it'll be is wet with DEF, yeah?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Picking up DEF today after work, so we'll see if that has an effect.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Would certainly be cheaper to add $8 in DEF and not have to replace a $160 assembly if that's all it is.
> 
> I think if I pull the reservoir assembly out, the most it'll be is wet with DEF, yeah?


I've not had any experience with this part, so i don't know how messy it would be, but I think that it's unlikely that simply adding fluid would make the error go away. would be interesting though!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I've not had any experience with this part, so i don't know how messy it would be, but I think that it's unlikely that simply adding fluid would make the error go away. would be interesting though!


It certainly couldn't hurt - we have the earliest onset of the "XXX miles to 65 mph limit" message for the DEF as well, so it needs DEF anyway. I bought it on Thursday, but haven't gotten around to dumping it in. If I get a solid break in the rain today, I'll go pour it in - all the better if I confuse my neighbors pouring fluid into the trunk of the car, haha.

It may not make the code go away - but it's certainly possible that running it low the first time caused the heater to unrecoverably malfunction the next time it got a little lower. Would be interested to know what the part change was (perhaps I can inquire with some of my friends who work at GM, if they can check).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Poured the 2.5 gallons of DEF into the tank (no mess Woo!), DIC didn't register that it had more yet, but once it starts throwing that "Service Exhaust Fluid System" screen up, you literally *cannot* access any other screen on the DEF, not even with the car off but ignition on. I tried clearing codes while it was showing, rescanned and had none, and it wouldn't go away. 

That kind of **** pisses me off.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Poured the 2.5 gallons of DEF into the tank (no mess Woo!), DIC didn't register that it had more yet, but once it starts throwing that "Service Exhaust Fluid System" screen up, you literally *cannot* access any other screen on the DEF, not even with the car off but ignition on. I tried clearing codes while it was showing, rescanned and had none, and it wouldn't go away.
> 
> That kind of **** pisses me off.


I wonder if it would go away if you disconnected the battery long enough to clear out the computer. Some other sites recommend touching the disconnected battery cables together to discharge everything, but I am not sure if that's a good idea or not.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, that might do it (how long does it usually need to be disconnected for?). If you let the car sit for about an hour or so and come back, turn the ignition on, but don't start the car, it doesn't block your access to the DIC, or show you the permanent screens until you start the car.

I purchased the reservoir assembly (the new part number) yesterday - cost about $160, and should be here this week.

Worth noting, the Chilton manual specifies draining the tank to replace the reservoir, though I'm not entirely sure why, as it is on top. Other than that, it doesn't _look_ too difficult. I suppose we'll see once I have at it.


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

Welcome to the "not covered emission" boat i bought this car high high hopes and will be my last gm product never had soooo many issues with parts and to be frank all are emission related issues but gm says its a non emission covered issue


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Yeah, that might do it (how long does it usually need to be disconnected for?). If you let the car sit for about an hour or so and come back, turn the ignition on, but don't start the car, it doesn't block your access to the DIC, or show you the permanent screens until you start the car.
> 
> I purchased the reservoir assembly (the new part number) yesterday - cost about $160, and should be here this week.
> 
> Worth noting, the Chilton manual specifies draining the tank to replace the reservoir, though I'm not entirely sure why, as it is on top. Other than that, it doesn't _look_ too difficult. I suppose we'll see once I have at it.


Not sure how long. I seem to remember 1 hour. Keep us posted on what you do and how it turns out.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Won't reset all my stuff, will it (oil life, trip odometer, etc)?

Will do. Seller says the reservoir should ship today.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Won't reset all my stuff, will it (oil life, trip odometer, etc)?
> 
> Will do. Seller says the reservoir should ship today.


I don't know about the oil life monitor, but I would expect it to reset the trip odometers for sure...


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Won't reset all my stuff, will it (oil life, trip odometer, etc)?
> 
> Will do. Seller says the reservoir should ship today.


Good question. I would think that everything would return to factory default.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I know on my Cobalt, I've had the battery be dead for a few days in the winter (before I remember to throw it on the trickle charger), and my oil life, trip odometer, average fuel economy, etc are all retained - only the radio loses its memory.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Worth mentioning - that recall we saw earlier for the O2 and NOX1, isn't appearing anymore.

Also, I was contacted by the GM Executive office yesterday/today, so we'll see where that goes - from what it sounded like, she wasn't getting my point that we shouldn't have to pay for any of this and that GM should cover the costs for a vehicle that is still relatively new. For the time being - seeing what assistance can be provided with the cost if the dealer fixes it will work I guess.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

To only cover emissions related issues on a new system for only 2 years 24k miles with all the problems that have occurred is insane. They cover the radio for longer than the complicated emissions issues. They obviously are not committed to making a diesel car be a real viable option for the general public.:uhh::angry:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Exactly. I expressed a few times that we're basically guinea pigs - which I'm fine with. I knew that when we bought the car. 

What I didn't expect was to be left out in the cold (financially) if something did malfunction - and to be speed limited if certain things broke.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

This was the first GM diesel car since the 80s, to not cover the emission related issues will never work well with the public, they get some $1000 bill on a diesel chevy car for emissions in a couple years and then have short supply of parts and speed reduction limits, might be the last GM car they ever buy. The margin for error isn't very high. I love the car but if I have huge expense for sensors and emissions failure I will be very unhappy.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Kind of makes me wonder what the whole point of buying a new car was, if something that breaks around two years after isn't covered.

We'll absolutely keep buying GM products, but it certainly makes me consider not buying new. Which, for all intents and purposes, is a lost sale.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

The efficiency of the CTD goes out the window if we spend large $$$ on emission related issues, might as well drive a gas truck with half the fuel economy. I haven't had any issues yet.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hopefully you never will.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I have not driven the car on a big road trip for about 2 months, this in town driving is not where the car shines. Need to do a road trip and stretch the car legs again. Gator and Diesel on here both drive lots of road miles and seem to have less issues than those that drive the CTD in town a LOT.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yes - on the normal tank we're between 65-80% city. On the freeway for about 6 1/2 miles in the morning. Generally she'll take city roads back (have to leave earlier in order to take the freeway back, as traffic gets awful, quickly, if you leave when we usually do).


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

It really does seem like this car was optimized for highway driving. The only emissions component I've needed to replace in all 178K miles was one exhaust gas temperature sensor. That's it.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

On both my diesel Cruze, and a friend of mine's diesel Cruze, both cars had Nox sensors replaced in under 25k miles. We both still love our cars, but if you've made it any significant amount of miles and not had emissions related issues, you are EXTREMELY lucky. Next issue I have, I'm just deleting it. To **** with this emissions crap. It will quickly offset any money you save with the good mileage.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

I'm knocking on wood, at 24,800 miles without an issue. It's been a great car to date. Fun to drive, efficient and reliable.


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## Cruzator (Dec 31, 2014)

mkohan said:


> I'm knocking on wood, at 24,800 miles without an issue. It's been a great car to date. Fun to drive, efficient and reliable.


Same here. Approaching 40K. No issues.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So, been meaning to update this. 

Last week, I was contacted by the Executive Office (customer care) to discuss this. Long story short, the car is going into the dealer today, and we should be paying just over $160 + tax, to have everything repaired - which I am completely fine with, considering I just spent ~$160 on the DEF reservoir alone. We also get a free loaner.

Assuming we have no issues (I would have no reason to believe we would - our service dealer has always been really good), I am very happy with how this has been resolved. It will be nice for the car to be usable again - I'm sure my wife will be happy not to drive the Cav any longer. I will be too - she's been tanking my fuel economy (not that it was great to begin with). 

Updates to follow once they have the car and/or when we get it back.


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## BrandoFisher117 (Mar 14, 2016)

MP, I hope everything gets worked out for you!


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks for the interim update. Hopefully it's all smooth sailing..


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Dropped the Cruze off after work, brought this pretty young lady home. I was hoping for a new Cruze as a loaner, but we've both been wanting to check out the new Malibu as well - so this is certainly a great way to do it.


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

so hows the malibu


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

mr overkill said:


> so hows the malibu


My wife drove it to yoga and back and already wants to buy one. Driving it back from the dealer I really enjoyed how it drove. 

Should drive it a bit more tomorrow evening - and we'll see how well four wheels/tires and four tires fit in it!


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Fill us in on the mpg as well


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yes, need to go check if the trip was reset when we got it, along with the fuel economy estimate.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

MP81 said:


> My wife drove it to yoga and back and already wants to buy one. Driving it back from the dealer I really enjoyed how it drove.
> 
> Should drive it a bit more tomorrow evening - and we'll see how well four wheels/tires and four tires fit in it!


Any woman who goes to yoga gets a + in my book.


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

My dealer assures me that the DEF tank heater will be covered under powertrain or a "special diesel exemption"? Taking it in tomorrow so we will see

My issues with our 14' diesel have been detailed in the other threads, but as of right now I can tell you this car will DEFINITELY be getting sold before the extended warranty expires at 76k. My girlfriend will absolutely not tolerate a high repair bill, and I do not blame her. 

As I've got experience, I was consulted when my GFs friend wanted to buy a new car. We drove a malibu and a cruze, and for the price difference, ended up getting the malibu. It's a 2013 Malibu 3LT loaded up. 38k miles (lease trade in) and clean. Out the door it was $16k. 

I don't know how the new ones are (Besides beautiful!), but for the slight price difference and minimal fuel economy concession (Over the gas cruze), it seemed like a lot more car.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The 1LT we have currently is over 200 lbs lighter than the CTD, while being larger in more than likely all measurement aspects. 

The power lumbar on both seats is great (as is the power passenger seat).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Dealer called and the car is done and ready for pickup.

Dammit, I wanted to keep the Malibu a couple more weeks. Haha.

It certainly carried a lot of **** - four wheels and tire assemblies and four tires. Took some creative placement, but they fit.


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

The repair was not covered under any normal warranty but was covered under my GMPP. 

They gave me a 2016 cruze 1lt. Not really any options but even the cloth seats I think were more comfortable than my leather seats. It shuts off when you come to a red light and it's hard for my brain to believe it's going to turn back on!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, the Malibu had start-stop - and they absolutely *nailed* it, nearly imperceptible. 

Picked our little girl up and she's running great - with no CELs.

So what they ended up replacing was O2 #1, NOx #1 and the DEF Reservoir (which I also purchased and have sitting in my dining room, haha). They cleared the code for the NOx #2 sensor, drove the car a little over 20 miles and it didn't come back. Will continue to monitor, but wouldn't be surprised if it was never an issue - just linked to the other two having issues.

Total was $169.60.

My wife still wants to buy a Malibu now, though. I don't blame her, either.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Yeah, the Malibu had start-stop - and they absolutely *nailed* it, nearly imperceptible.
> 
> Picked our little girl up and she's running great - with no CELs.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear it's resolved now. May you have thousands and thousands of trouble free miles now!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Thank you - we are glad as well! Hopefully that was it for emissions issues.

The earlier recall we saw has since been removed from the MyChevrolet site.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Thank you - we are glad as well! Hopefully that was it for emissions issues.
> 
> The earlier recall we saw has since been removed from the MyChevrolet site.


I've gone about 120K with no emissions component failures (EGT replaced around 60K miles and at 180K now). I think once these cars are sorted out, they are generally reliable and stable.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And I'm thinking perhaps some of these are new part numbers - not sure if the NOx or O2 sensors have changed - but we know the DEF reservoir has. 

You know, I really do wish that the DEF level didn't just say "OK" over a certain percentage. I'd like to wait until I'm somewhere in the 20% level, and put another 2.5 gallons in, that way I know I can put the whole jug in without overflow.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> And I'm thinking perhaps some of these are new part numbers - not sure if the NOx or O2 sensors have changed - but we know the DEF reservoir has.
> 
> You know, I really do wish that the DEF level didn't just say "OK" over a certain percentage. I'd like to wait until I'm somewhere in the 20% level, and put another 2.5 gallons in, that way I know I can put the whole jug in without overflow.


it changes from OK to percentage at 35%, then counts down


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

kmfinley93 said:


> it seemed like a lot more car.


two complete different classes of cars, so of course its more car


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> it changes from OK to percentage at 35%, then counts down


All right, so I'll just have her periodically keep an eye on it. Once I know it's there, I can add the full jug.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> All right, so I'll just have her periodically keep an eye on it. Once I know it's there, I can add the full jug.


iirc, when it gets to 35% it over rides the DIC and alerts you

i think...i dont remember well enough to swear on it


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> iirc, when it gets to 35% it over rides the DIC and alerts you
> 
> i think...i dont remember well enough to swear on it


No it doesn't. When it's at 35% the only way to know is to go into the menu and look.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> No it doesn't. When it's at 35% the only way to know is to go into the menu and look.


Yeah, that's what I remember. It alerts you around 5%.


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

when you get to 10% you will start getting alerts when you get to 5% it really alerts you


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

Yeah I'm not sure there's a way to fill it all the way up without making a mess. 

I was at 24% and put a 2.5 gallon jug in and it said "ok"... but there was definitely room left in the tank. I didn't feel like opening a whole other jug just to put a gallon or less in so I left it. Idk what the shelf life on that stuff is or if it changes when it's opened.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

kmfinley93 said:


> Yeah I'm not sure there's a way to fill it all the way up without making a mess.
> 
> I was at 24% and put a 2.5 gallon jug in and it said "ok"... but there was definitely room left in the tank. I didn't feel like opening a whole other jug just to put a gallon or less in so I left it. Idk what the shelf life on that stuff is or if it changes when it's opened.


Keeping it in a closed container that you opened to pour some out of would be no different than keeping it in the DEF tank. That said, i always wait until it needs a full jug. I tried the partial jug route once and it's just a PITA.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I am still on free oil changes at dealer, have two more to go, which will be completed before I know it. Does anyone just go to a truck stop and fill DEF there? It just seems easier assuming the nozzle fits ok? Then if I need 3 gallons I just add three gallons, ......I assume DEF at a truck stop turns over pretty quickly.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I don't have any near me - I just get the Supertech DEF at WalMart for like $8. It's API certified (has to be in order to be called DEF anyway), and it's cheap.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

It is 2.79 a gallon at truck stops all around me, I will probably try that first and see if I like doing it that way. Probably just do it when I change oil so I don't forget.


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> It is 2.79 a gallon at truck stops all around me, I will probably try that first and see if I like doing it that way. Probably just do it when I change oil so I don't forget.


Let me know how that goes. We haven't had any luck getting the truck stop nozzle to fit into the F-350 and 450 resevoir, so I would assume the same issue. 

Anyone else get PO'd when you go to fill up with diesel and the nozzle doesn't fit? Or when a station advertises diesel but they don't have any passenger car pumps?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

kmfinley93 said:


> Let me know how that goes. We haven't had any luck getting the truck stop nozzle to fit into the F-350 and 450 resevoir, so I would assume the same issue.
> 
> Anyone else get PO'd when you go to fill up with diesel and the nozzle doesn't fit? Or when a station advertises diesel but they don't have any passenger car pumps?


perhaps that's why I never hear about anyone here using the truck stop for DEF.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Can't say we've ever had that issue. There was one time on our way back from NC that we stopped and the label was not ULSD, but rather just low-sulpher (500ppm vs 15ppm).


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Can't say we've ever had that issue. There was one time on our way back from NC that we stopped and the label was not ULSD, but rather just low-sulpher (500ppm vs 15ppm).


I haven't seen the 500ppm stuff since I had my 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel back in 07 or 08.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I haven't seen the 500ppm stuff since I had my 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel back in 07 or 08.


I'd hope it was just an old sticker...but the fact it was still there made me leery enough to find a different station.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> I am still on free oil changes at dealer, have two more to go, which will be completed before I know it. Does anyone just go to a truck stop and fill DEF there? It just seems easier assuming the nozzle fits ok? Then if I need 3 gallons I just add three gallons, ......I assume DEF at a truck stop turns over pretty quickly.


Just had my last free oil change with DEF fill-up. I plan to get the DEF at a local Pilot same time as I change my oil.. That should be sometime in the end of September. I'll let you how that goes.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

CEL came on during the drive in this morning. I'll see if I can read the code at home, but I doubt it. 

I'm hoping it's just NOX #2, since they didn't replace that one - but considering we paid the amount that was quoted, which included replacing it, they can feel free to replace it for no charge.

We're leaving for vacation on Saturday - driving - so we'll be putting 800-900 miles (if not more) on the car - I don't need the thing going into a speed limit mode.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> CEL came on during the drive in this morning. I'll see if I can read the code at home, but I doubt it.
> 
> I'm hoping it's just NOX #2, since they didn't replace that one - but considering we paid the amount that was quoted, which included replacing it, they can feel free to replace it for no charge.
> 
> We're leaving for vacation on Saturday - driving - so we'll be putting 800-900 miles (if not more) on the car - I don't need the thing going into a speed limit mode.


Ouch! Keep us posted on what you find out.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Will do. I'm hoping she's able to swing by the dealer and at least get them to read the code.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

She did and they wouldn't read the code since she didn't have an appointment. 

You know, cause it takes all of three minutes. They _were_ busy, but still...


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

My local autozone just recently updated their code scanners to read and diagnose CTDS


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That's good to know. I'd also be open to buying a nicer one that'll read it, assuming it doesn't end up being a Tech-II haha


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> That's good to know. I'd also be open to buying a nicer one that'll read it, assuming it doesn't end up being a Tech-II haha


$10 wifi/bt dongle and free smartphone app will do it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Cool beans.

Used my reader yesterday, couldn't read the code - there was only one - but I cleared it. 

Will see if it comes back (it didn't on the drive into work this morning). Being it's a single code, I'm willing to believe it is the NOX 2 sensor they didn't replace.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Put just over 1000 miles on the car driving up to, all around, and back from vacation. The roads are great for driving up there, and I had a great time being able to enjoy driving the car on said fun roads (and certainly was able to drive it a bit harder than normal). 

Including all the city driving that was done downtown (both fillups were about 45% city), the fun I had, windows down/sunroof popped, AC on the drive up and down - and knowing the drive home had about 200 lbs of wine in the trunk (and all the **** we brought with us had to go inside the car), the car still blows me away with the fuel economy. 45.42 mpg (drive up, driving around, fun driving) and 44.0 mpg (driving around, less fun driving, drive home). Love it. 

CEL still hasn't come back on - so I'm going to assume it's the NOX2 code, since they seem to come and go.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Put just over 1000 miles on the car driving up to, all around, and back from vacation. The roads are great for driving up there, and I had a great time being able to enjoy driving the car on said fun roads (and certainly was able to drive it a bit harder than normal).
> 
> Including all the city driving that was done downtown (both fillups were about 45% city), the fun I had, windows down/sunroof popped, AC on the drive up and down - and knowing the drive home had about 200 lbs of wine in the trunk (and all the **** we brought with us had to go inside the car), the car still blows me away with the fuel economy. 45.42 mpg (drive up, driving around, fun driving) and 44.0 mpg (driving around, less fun driving, drive home). Love it.
> 
> CEL still hasn't come back on - so I'm going to assume it's the NOX2 code, since they seem to come and go.


Glad to hear you were able to enjoy the trip CEL-free, as it should be!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

CEL is back on - been...roughly...1500 miles since I cleared it. I'm going to assume it's the NOx 2 sensor. 

I think I'll leave the code, set up an appointment at the dealer, and have them replace it. This should be free, since it technically was part of the price of the repair I paid for before, but the code was cleared and the sensor left in.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

MP81 said:


> CEL is back on - been...roughly...1500 miles since I cleared it. I'm going to assume it's the NOx 2 sensor.
> 
> I think I'll leave the code, set up an appointment at the dealer, and have them replace it. This should be free, since it technically was part of the price of the repair I paid for before, but the code was cleared and the sensor left in.


How frustrating, how many miles are on your car now? Good luck getting this issue resolved.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

About 50,000. The NOX 2 code doesn't cause any driving issues or speed limitations, should be a quick fix, assuming that's what it is. I'm just not paying for it, since I already did.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> About 50,000. The NOX 2 code doesn't cause any driving issues or speed limitations, should be a quick fix, assuming that's what it is. I'm just not paying for it, since I already did.


let us know how they treat you on this. I agree it should be no charge.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Got my fingers crossed as I just hit 51K miles on mine. Also, I just filled up the DEF tank at my local Loves Truck stop today with no issues. nozzle fit fine and cleaner fill up than using the box. It was $2.79 a gal here (Phoenix, AZ).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> let us know how they treat you on this. I agree it should be no charge.


The CEL went away on its own, so I won't plan to take it in unless it returns.


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