# Rear drum to disk for LS



## ExtremePower (Sep 13, 2014)

Hey guys, So I have been wanting to switch out the stock drum brakes on the back of my 14 Cruze LS for a little while now and I have been doing some research and it seems some people are wanting to as well but they were old threads. So if anyone has done so please post your thoughts and what you all did to make the swap.

I went to the GM dealership in my town and I gave them my VIN and they told me I have the rear axle that would allow to me just bolt on calipers and everything. So that's a plus. I didn't ask how much they would charge me to get all the parts.. Although I should go back and ask.. Anyway I found on zzp this...ZZPerformance - ZZP Sonic Rear Disk Brake Conversion Kit #ZZ-SNCRB for the sonic but it says the rotors wont work because of the bolt pattern is different. 

So my question to you is if I bought this kit could I sell the rotors and just use the calipers and everything else and just buy rotors designed for the Cruze? 

I know it's a hassle to do so but I want to do this because it will shed unneeded wait and no matter what anyone says disks do out perform drums and a big factor is because I would like to get nice rims and I hate the look of nice rims with drums. 

Thanks for any advice and feedback guys!


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## SneakerFix (Jul 28, 2013)

The bolt pattern for the rotors on the ZZP Kit is 5x105 same as the cruze.. You can't use none of the Zzp sonic swap parts on the cruze.. I have everything needed to complete the rear brake swap plan was for this weekend but pep boys won't have my rotors till Monday so maybe next weekend I'll do the swap.. 


if you have a zlink rear it all bolts up I even think the non zlink rear still uses the same bits but I need to see one without the hub


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## ExtremePower (Sep 13, 2014)

You're saying the calipers won't even work on the Cruze? Where did you get your parts to do the swap? And finally when you do the swap could you take pics how you did it and what your thoughts are after the swap? Thanks!


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## SneakerFix (Jul 28, 2013)

Nothing zero from the zzp Kit bolts up To a cruze.. The factory rear calipers for the cruze/volt is 48mm or 45mm from center to center and uses a 12mm bolt the zzp one is wider from what I was told.. 


I got everything from someone parting out a cruze I actually have two rear swaps parts.. The factory rear drums are good but for me I've had nothing but issues over the past few months with my rear and the dealer can't figure out why they are making noise so I'm swaping them for disc


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Kind of amazes me how dumb these dealerships are with even brakes. With shoes, the only way they can self adjust and be quiet is the ability to self center. 

Mistake number one was going back to these relatively weak coil return springs when GM was using a huge U spring that took a strong man and two boys to install. Maybe somebody complained about this. Second thing, is the shoe contact area must be well lubricated, nothing works better after a good cleaning is to use anti-seize as a lubricant, but still must be done every couple of years depending on whether you are living with road salt or not.

For the parking brake function, nothing works better than shoes, a heck of a lot more contact area than pads. 

One thing I do not know anything about is that the proportioning valves were dropped that have the powerful function of restricting the rear brakes in proportion to the front brakes that do most of the stopping anyway. Now they are using the ABS rear valves to pulse the rear brakes. Would think the program should be different between disc and drums. 

With discs, have to work the parking brake continuously for adjustment, idiots at my Chevy dealer didn't even know this! Has a ratcheting mechanism that becomes worthless with rust and cost an arm and a leg to replace. 

Another bad mistake they made and not an opinion but a fact is going back to that cradle type pad holder with the metal clips. This is a trap for road salt where those clips will bind the pads so they can't return to their home position. This causes the pads to stick hard against the rotor with drag that results in a warped rotor.

Had to remove all four of mine, clean them up and spayed with 900*F brake paint, did a terrible job of plating these things. And used anti-seize both on the insides and outsides to help retard corrosion. Used help, because it will have to be done again and again and again. Both Honda and Toyota were using these things over 30 years ago and was a constant problem. Engineers were well aware of these problems so got away from it, but guess these young kids don't know anything.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

NickD said:


> Kind of amazes me how dumb these dealerships are with even brakes. With shoes, the only way they can self adjust and be quiet is the ability to self center.
> 
> Mistake number one was going back to these relatively weak coil return springs when GM was using a huge U spring that took a strong man and two boys to install. Maybe somebody complained about this. Second thing, is the shoe contact area must be well lubricated, nothing works better after a good cleaning is to use anti-seize as a lubricant, but still must be done every couple of years depending on whether you are living with road salt or not.
> 
> ...


Yeah the brakes do kind of suck. My rotors are warped. I'm just waiting a few more months because the pads still have enough on them to be functional just not smooth. I have it in writing from the dealer saying that it is still safe to operate. However when I change out the brake pads and buy new rotors they won't be GMs. I'll buy something like these.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Daisy81 said:


> Yeah the brakes do kind of suck. My rotors are warped. I'm just waiting a few more months because the pads still have enough on them to be functional just not smooth. I have it in writing from the dealer saying that it is still safe to operate. However when I change out the brake pads and buy new rotors they won't be GMs. I'll buy something like these.


Daisy, I'm assuming you have rear drums. If so, were they ever adjusted. For some unknown reason the rear drums on the LS, LT1 and Eco weren't properly adjusted when installed so the front brakes do way too much work.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

I think the brakes are pretty darn good on my Cruze. Particularly compared the Saturn SL2 (4 wheel disks) I used to have (the only thing worse than that I've owned was a 1968 Fiat 500 and a 1954 Willys CJ5 both with 4 wheel drum brakes). But then I do have a diesel with 4 wheel disks and not a base model.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I had the drums on my ECO MT adjusted and my brakes are among the best I've ever had. I will admit they don't have the look of all wheel disk brakes but in the rain I'd rather have drums because they catch quicker than disc brakes. Disc brakes have to dry before they'll really start working. Drums spin the water off so they stay drier.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

obermd said:


> Daisy, I'm assuming you have rear drums. If so, were they ever adjusted. For some unknown reason the rear drums on the LS, LT1 and Eco weren't properly adjusted when installed so the front brakes do way too much work.


No I have disc brakes on all four of my wheels from the factory.

If the Cruze with the drums can simply bolt on replace to disc brakes then I guess this kit would work for the rotors and pads but he will need to find the calipers. To be honest though I'm thinking about replacing mine with something a little nicer too if I can find a set I'll link them.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Sorry about the double post:

I think the reason my rotors warped is because of the commute on 66. From DC to a little past Manassas it is stop and go. The closer you get to Manassas the faster the limit gets. I try to down shift early and anticipate pending deceleration requirements but people in this area tail gate and slam on their brakes. Trying to maintain distance is difficult when people cut in front and jam on their brakes.

My guess is my brakes have at some point or on several occasions simply gotten too warm. That is why I'm thinking about upgrading them. I realize the brake kit I'm looking at can't be turned but if I got 71K miles and counting out of the stock brakes and rotors I don't mind if these other ones can't be turned. I expect they will dissipate heat better and avoid warping at all.


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## Clausses (Sep 8, 2014)

I would like to get rear discs because I'm a stupid teenager and I end up doing a lot of hard braking.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Daisy81 said:


> Sorry about the double post:
> 
> I think the reason my rotors warped is because of the commute on 66. From DC to a little past Manassas it is stop and go. The closer you get to Manassas the faster the limit gets. I try to down shift early and anticipate pending deceleration requirements but people in this area tail gate and slam on their brakes. Trying to maintain distance is difficult when people cut in front and jam on their brakes.


Been there (Woodbridge to DC) done that. This type of traffic is normal around many of our largest cities.



Clausses said:


> I would like to get rear discs because I'm a stupid teenager and I end up doing a lot of hard braking.


Start by getting your rear drums adjusted properly. It makes a world of difference. My ECO MT will emergency stop from 65 to 20 in very short order as well as steer where I need it to during the braking. I know this because I was run off the road by some idiot a couple of years ago - avoided both him and the guardrail. Now for your routine hard braking - practice backing off some and seeing/predicting at least 30 seconds ahead of you on the road. You'll discover that doing the latter will force you to back off a little because if you're too close you can't see ahead. It takes practice and no one knows how to do when they first start driving. If you haven't done so, take an advanced driving course that teaches high speed car handling and anticipation. Most basic driver training courses teach only low speed handling. One more thought - you're inexperienced but not stupid.


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## ExtremePower (Sep 13, 2014)

So I emailed ZZP and asked if hey are making a Cruze brake conversion kit and if not will the Sonic calipers work.. But being the weekend I probably won't see a reply till Monday! I'll let you know!


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## ExtremePower (Sep 13, 2014)

SneakerFix said:


> Nothing zero from the zzp Kit bolts up To a cruze.. The factory rear calipers for the cruze/volt is 48mm or 45mm from center to center and uses a 12mm bolt the zzp one is wider from what I was told..


Huh well if that is the case that is very unfortunate. I guess I will just have to wait and see what ZZP says.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

obermd said:


> Been there (Woodbridge to DC) done that. This type of traffic is normal around many of our largest cities.
> 
> Start by getting your rear drums adjusted properly. It makes a world of difference. My ECO MT will emergency stop from 65 to 20 in very short order as well as steer where I need it to during the braking. I know this because I was run off the road by some idiot a couple of years ago - avoided both him and the guardrail. Now for your routine hard braking - practice backing off some and seeing/predicting at least 30 seconds ahead of you on the road. You'll discover that doing the latter will force you to back off a little because if you're too close you can't see ahead. It takes practice and no one knows how to do when they first start driving. If you haven't done so, take an advanced driving course that teaches high speed car handling and anticipation. Most basic driver training courses teach only low speed handling. One more thought - you're inexperienced but not stupid.


So I was driving down the road to Taco Bell today. It's a 45MPH road. A blue Toyota makes a left turn in front of me way too close for comfort. In the short time I lost sight of the vehicle in front it comes to a full stop because he meant to turn into the gas station and now wants to backup instead of go left into the parking lot and turn around legally. I'm going 45 and stomp on my worn brakes (4 discs) and stop in one car length amount of distance and come to a complete stop hoping to god the Ford behind me saw that I stopped so I don't get rear ended. Thankfully he did. There also turned out to be a state trooper that saw the entire thing and pulled the car into the parking lot where he could turn around to get gas .... after he got his ticket.

Anyways the moral of this story is make sure your breaks work and make sure that you maintain safe distances because there are more idiots on the road then not.

Four disc brakes have more stoping power then 2 discs and 2 drums. The question is how much more. I honestly don't know. Drum brakes are cheaper to get new pads for and I don't think you have to worry about the system getting warped. So in regards to if the brakes should be upgraded to discs I would ask myself if I can afford and am willing to spend money on rotors and then have to turn them or replace them down the road in addition to the brake pad for not just two wheels but all four. If anyone is interested I found this article while researching the subject.


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## boneheaddoctor (Dec 10, 2014)

Clausses said:


> I would like to get rear discs because I'm a stupid teenager and I end up doing a lot of hard braking.


As obermd pointed out...if you find yourself doing a lot of hard braking..you are definately NOT paying enough attention to driving. 

Its not IF but WHEN you are going to find yourself in an accident. Rough road surface, sand, water, snow, ice....oil...any of of them will make the difference between actually stopping and slamming into what you were trying to not run into.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

boneheaddoctor said:


> As obermd pointed out...if you find yourself doing a lot of hard braking..you are definately NOT paying enough attention to driving.
> 
> Its not IF but WHEN you are going to find yourself in an accident. Rough road surface, sand, water, snow, ice....oil...any of of them will make the difference between actually stopping and slamming into what you were trying to not run into.


I agree the best thing you can do to avoid an accident is to maintain a safe distance and speed.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Daisy81 said:


> So I was driving down the road to Taco Bell today. It's a 45MPH road. A blue Toyota makes a left turn in front of me way too close for comfort. In the short time I lost sight of the vehicle in front it comes to a full stop because he meant to turn into the gas station and now wants to backup instead of go left into the parking lot and turn around legally. I'm going 45 and stomp on my worn brakes (4 discs) and stop in one car length amount of distance and come to a complete stop hoping to god the Ford behind me saw that I stopped so I don't get rear ended. Thankfully he did. There also turned out to be a state trooper that saw the entire thing and pulled the car into the parking lot where he could turn around to get gas .... after he got his ticket.
> 
> Anyways the moral of this story is make sure your breaks work and make sure that you maintain safe distances because there are more idiots on the road then not.
> 
> Four disc brakes have more stoping power then 2 discs and 2 drums. The question is how much more. I honestly don't know. Drum brakes are cheaper to get new pads for and I don't think you have to worry about the system getting warped. So in regards to if the brakes should be upgraded to discs I would ask myself if I can afford and am willing to spend money on rotors and then have to turn them or replace them down the road in addition to the brake pad for not just two wheels but all four. If anyone is interested I found this article while researching the subject.


I'm glad a trooper saw that idiot and did something about it. Idiots like this do way too much damage on our roads and get away with it. This is why I tell people to know what's going on at least 30 seconds ahead of them at all times. It allows you to deal with the close in emergencies and not have to worry about hitting something immediately after dealing with the current driving emergency. And yes, I'm well aware that at 60 MPH 30 seconds translates to half a mile.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

obermd said:


> I'm glad a trooper saw that idiot and did something about it. Idiots like this do way too much damage on our roads and get away with it. This is why I tell people to know what's going on at least 30 seconds ahead of them at all times. It allows you to deal with the close in emergencies and not have to worry about hitting something immediately after dealing with the current driving emergency. And yes, I'm well aware that at 60 MPH 30 seconds translates to half a mile.


I agree I try to know what is going on too. It was the perfect storm though. Just as my view got block he punched the brakes. I started off 3 car lengths behind him. The distraction ate one car length. My responding to the perceived danger ate a second car length. If I had been two car lengths away or closer I would have hit him. Hopefully people understand this as a lesson. If I had hit him it would have been both of our faults. His because he illegally stopped. But it would not have cleared me from following too closely to respond to the incident and crash into him. The one SOB that would not have gotten a ticket would have been the person making the reckless left turn unless the cop was really on the ball and that almost never happens.

Always always maintain safe distance.

Edit:

*60 MPH 30 seconds translates to half a mile.*

Exactly! Tailgating on the highway at 70MPH with only a car length or two in front is the most reckless thing you can do. That is how you get 20 car pile ups.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)




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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Daisy, good going. Hopefully our young friend understands and learns from what the two of us have said. As for tracking half a mile ahead, I actually do this. It doesn't mean I leave a half mile gap in front of me - it means I know what's going on half a mile ahead of me. I also try to keep track of what's going on up to two lanes to either side and 15 seconds behind me. Helps me keep track of the idiots barreling down on me from the sides and rear. As for the gap I prefer to leave 3 to 4 seconds but unfortunately that's not always possible.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

obermd said:


> Daisy, good going. Hopefully our young friend understands and learns from what the two of us have said. As for tracking half a mile ahead, I actually do this. It doesn't mean I leave a half mile gap in front of me - it means I know what's going on half a mile ahead of me. I also try to keep track of what's going on up to two lanes to either side and 15 seconds behind me. Helps me keep track of the idiots barreling down on me from the sides and rear. As for the gap I prefer to leave 3 to 4 seconds but unfortunately that's not always possible.


LOL half a mile between cars on the highway is not realistic but trying to stay out of the wolf packs and keeping away from being directly to the side of other cars is. This way if anything happens you have room to maneuver.


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## roadrunnerA12 (Jan 21, 2015)

Rear drum brakes used to be self adjusting, I forget what era that started. They adjusted every time you backed up and applied the brakes firmly. No longer the case with the Cruze LS?


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

roadrunnerA12 said:


> Rear drum brakes used to be self adjusting, I forget what era that started. They adjusted every time you backed up and applied the brakes firmly. No longer the case with the Cruze LS?


so it would seem. Read quote below.



NickD said:


> Kind of amazes me how dumb these dealerships are with even brakes. With shoes, the only way they can self adjust and be quiet is the ability to self center.
> 
> Mistake number one was going back to these relatively weak coil return springs when GM was using a huge U spring that took a strong man and two boys to install. Maybe somebody complained about this. Second thing, is the shoe contact area must be well lubricated, nothing works better after a good cleaning is to use anti-seize as a lubricant, but still must be done every couple of years depending on whether you are living with road salt or not.
> 
> ...


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

roadrunnerA12 said:


> Rear drum brakes used to be self adjusting, I forget what era that started. They adjusted every time you backed up and applied the brakes firmly. No longer the case with the Cruze LS?


They self adjust once they are properly adjusted to start with. The problem is many Cruze left the factory with the rear drums so far out of adjustment that they never have a chance to start the self adjustment process.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Daisy81 said:


> LOL half a mile between cars on the highway is not realistic but trying to stay out of the wolf packs and keeping away from being directly to the side of other cars is. This way if anything happens you have room to maneuver.


That half mile includes a lot of cars. The problem if you don't do this is that you won't see the pile up occur before it happens. On the open road with no one around you there's also no reason to be that close to another car. In heavy traffic you need to watch for traffic flow changes well before you need to respond - it takes the half to 3/4 second reaction time out of the equation.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

obermd said:


> That half mile includes a lot of cars. The problem if you don't do this is that you won't see the pile up occur before it happens. On the open road with no one around you there's also no reason to be that close to another car. In heavy traffic you need to watch for traffic flow changes well before you need to respond - it takes the half to 3/4 second reaction time out of the equation.


On the open road around here it is frustrating because you end up with clingers. In my experience speeding up won't work. They just speed up. You have to slow way down to the point where they can't take it and speed off ahead.

In the city on the highway a half mile between you and the next car translates to a line of cars to the right of you speeding up to pass you. My suggestion is to accept it and get in the right lane and travel as safely as possible. Accidents happen when you get frustrated and impatient.

When I'm on the highway I use cruise control. If I see a pack of cars up ahead and I'm gaining on them I decide on if it is worth catching up to them and trying to pass or simply slowing down. 9 out of 10 times it is better to slow down because the wolf pack formed from people trying to pass everyone else and their overriding fear to be the fastest in case of a cop.

It's funny how slowing down is usually the key to avoiding accidents, tickets, and frustration (road rage) on the road. That said don't be the slow person in the left lane holding everyone up because they want to speed. This is very dangerous.

Save the racing for the track.


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## _MerF_ (Mar 24, 2015)

SneakerFix said:


> You can't use none


:signs053:



obermd said:


> Drums spin the water off so they stay drier.


Umm...no offense, but unless the shoes are on the outside of the drum, that breaks a couple of laws of physics...:wink:


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

_MerF_ said:


> :signs053:
> 
> 
> Umm...no offense, but unless the shoes are on the outside of the drum, that breaks a couple of laws of physics...:wink:


I may have the physics wrong but my experience is drums grab faster when the roads are covered with water.


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## _MerF_ (Mar 24, 2015)

obermd said:


> I may have the physics wrong but my experience is drums grab faster when the roads are covered with water.


I think it's more that they don't get water inside the drum at all. But I just couldn't resist arguing the semantics.


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

I was hauling a marked oversize load on a Michigan expressway with 2 lanes. There are turn arounds in the median for emergency vehicles only. So I'm in the right lane and notice a state trooper behind me, at the same time a group of three cars is coming up on my left to pass, no big deal I'm going 50 they are 70, anyway, the lead car in the group suddenly brakes and uses the emergency turn around with two cars locking brakes, I saw smoke in my mirror. No one got hit but very close, remember this all happened right next to me with state police right behind me. Next thing I know red n blues come on and I pull over also wondering why the heck he didn't go after the idiot doing an illigal uturn on expressway. He pulled me over just to see if I had a permit which I did and he let me go. The officer was a kid in training and the senior officer stayed in the car. I asked " did u see that?!! He said yes and shrugged his shoulders saying people do crazy stuff all the time, then said you're good, have a nice day. What a joke, and bad example to a trainee.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

So he had no probable cause to pull you over? I would file a complaint with the state and threaten to sue for harassment. He violated your rights.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

_MerF_ said:


> I think it's more that they don't get water inside the drum at all. But I just couldn't resist arguing the semantics.


I hadn't thought of this.


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

Daisy81 said:


> So he had no probable cause to pull you over? I would file a complaint with the state and threaten to sue for harassment. He violated your rights.


No, thats perfectly legal and normal to get pulled over when hauling something with an "oversize load" or "wide load" sign on the truck just to check that I have a permit and that I'm not lying about weights or dimensions. But other than just checking, they had no reason. Just totally ridiculous to let someone go that almost causes a wreck doing something illegal, then pull me over just to check. What it is? $10k fine if I don't have a permit. So that's more than the couple hundred for a reckless driver. They like to go after the companies and score big. As if police in general don't have a bad reputation as it is because a few bad apples don't get it.


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## ExtremePower (Sep 13, 2014)

Just so you guys know I contacted ZZP and have confirmed the Sonic kit will not work for the Cruze and they are not currently making one for the Cruze or have intentions of making one at this moment.. Which really bums me out. 

If any one is interested I would like to put together a petition and get as many signatures on it and present them with it to prove that there is a market for this product. Let me know if anyone is interested! Thanks!


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