# Issue with car fan



## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

This issue just recently came up.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

I would never let someone who admits they don't know the problem and charge me to replace something.


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

If I decline the $600 "fix" they are going to charge me $100 for looking at it. What a joke.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I agree with hificruzer, have someone else look at it. Just throwing parts at an issue without some sort of rational is a waste of time and money.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

GetJack3d said:


> If I decline the $600 "fix" they are going to charge me $100 for looking at it. What a joke.


If your car isnt under warranty than I think $100 is fair. Nobody wants to work for free....


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

Working for free is not fun – I agree. However I have foundthreads from other people with this same exact issue and they’re getting itfixed under the powertrain warranty for free. I feel like the dealership istrying to sucker money out of me.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

Is your car under warranty? Most of the time this is related to thermostat or water pump issues.


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

It is covered under powertrain. Do you know if the thermostat is covered under powertrain?


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

Some have reported it being replaced under warranty. But its up to the dealer/tech/gm


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The thermostat is a power train warranty item. Not sure if the main cooling fan is though.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

obermd said:


> The thermostat is a power train warranty item. Not sure if the main cooling fan is though.


Good to know!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

GetJack3d said:


> Ihave the same exact issue with my car as so many other people do. When I run the A/C the fan underthe hood turns on every 20 seconds, will stay on really loud for 10 seconds,then will shut off. About 20 seconds later it will turn on again for 10seconds.


Fan cycling with A/C is normal. The noise level is the issue. The Cruze has a 3-speed fan. The question is, is if the fan excessively noisy or is something wrong that it has to go into high and is skipping the lower speeds? From what I understand, "high" will get your attention, but should be rare.


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> Fan cycling with A/C is normal. The noise level is the issue. The Cruze has a 3-speed fan. The question is, is if the fan excessively noisy or is something wrong that it has to go into high and is skipping the lower speeds? From what I understand, "high" will get your attention, but should be rare.


The fan runs on the high mode every time the A/C is on. It runs for 10 seconds on high then it turns off for 20 seconds, then turns back on for 10 seconds on high mode.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Fan cycling is normal.....it is turned on to cool the evap core and reduce low side pressure.....so, it essentially cycles on and off as commanded.

However, you are indicating that the fan seems to be running at a very high (read noisey) speed.

Is this car new to you?.....or, is this fan operation on this car a new development that was not evident last air conditioning season?
Might be worthwhile to stop by the dealer and see if they'll run a similar car/engine/model for you to hear and observe.....since we can't do much about sound using the written word here.

Also, this diagnosis business.....I absolutely agree with the charge for a accurate diagnosis....let me repeat.....a ACCURATE diagnosis.
Being told that a replacement fan MIGHT fix it is NOT a accurate diagnosis......and, since the fan still operates how in the heck can it have anything to with speed?....it is a D.C. motor that only operates with the voltage being sent to it......it is the end of the line, not the beginning.

Cold day in EL you'd pull a hundred bucks out of my clammy hands for that level of diagnosis......might want to stand your ground on that.

From there, I'd find another dealer, with your detailed story (IE fan motor business) If you are certain that your vehicle is operating differently than a similar model.

Keep in touch,
Rob


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Robby said:


> and, since the fan still operates how in the heck can it have anything to with speed?....it is a D.C. motor that only operates with the voltage being sent to it......it is the end of the line, not the beginning.


IIRC, the fan is a 3-speed. The speed is controlled by which terminals of the fan are made hot. I would have thought they would have a simple fan and some kind of electronic speed control, but no, this seems to have a lot of wiring and relays. Bottom line, unless I'm missing something, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the fan motor has lost a low speed "winding". Then again, it could be a low speed relay. And there may be more than one fuse ....

It kinda leaves you wondering what subsidiary designed it. Because the design style sure seems to be in sharp contrast to the way the rest of the electrical system was done.

But even so, it seems like it shouldn't take an Einstein to figure out what part is bad. If they just want to throw parts at it, find another place.


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## KENSTV123 (Sep 21, 2014)

I'd run from that dealer or at least make them print out the DTC's that lead them to the diagnosis, the fan motor is not likely bad since the fan runs, that alone makes me think go elsewhere, the motor is a simple 12V motor with 2 resistors built in to make for 3 speeds, now since it runs full speed you know the motor it's self is NOT bad and if one of the 2 resistors is open it would not run low or medium speed-which is not in your concern you brought it in for so this dealer is full of it--
to understand the system for fan control, there are 2 thermistor heat sensors, one on the radiator and one on the engine, now if either sensor is out of spec as to the temperature to resistance the engine control module will turn the fan on and set a DTC, for the kind of money they are charging you could go out and buy a new laptop or cell phone and a $12 Bluetooth OBII reader and pull the DTCs yourself, the sensors are not going to cost much--
And if you want to troubleshoot it further yourself post back and I can get you the temperature to resistance values for the sensors-both have the same temp-resistance values, geeez no wonder everybody hates the dealers


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Geeze. Looking at the cooling system schematic. 3 fuses, 5 relays. 

I'd check fuse F42. If that opens, you have no medium speed, which might force the system to command high speed from time to time. The other two fuses have to be OK for high speed to work.

Relay KR20C controls low speed, and KR20P controls medium speed. The other three have to work for high speed to run. The relays are part of the underhood fuse block.


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

I'm really not familiar with cars other than the basicterminology. I've asked the dealership to supply me with an outline of theirdiagnosis and the steps they want to take for repairs. I'll provide theirreport once I receive it.

Thanks for all the comments -- I appreciate all of you!


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## KENSTV123 (Sep 21, 2014)

Also does the AC blow cold ?? if not it's possibly a AC system problem


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

GetJack3d said:


> Ihave the same exact issue with my car as so many other people do. When I run the A/C the fan underthe hood turns on every 20 seconds, will stay on really loud for 10 seconds,then will shut off. About 20 seconds later it will turn on again for 10seconds. This constantly happens all the time!
> So many other people have this same exact issue and the dealership fixed itunder the power train warranty! Something about a temperature sensor?
> I brought my car to the dealership today and they want to charge me $600 to fixit...they want to replace the entire fan because they can't figure out what iswrong!!!
> 
> Help!!!! This is ridiculous


Hello GetJack3d,

I'm sorry to learn of the A/C concern you're currently experiencing with your Chevrolet Cruze. We certainly understand how unsettling out of pocket expenses can be, so we do apologize for the outcome. Although we can't guarantee a different resolution, we'd be happy to look into this further. Feel free to send your VIN, contact information, preferred dealership and mileage in a private message. 

We hope to receive a message from you soon 

Jasmine F
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

Yes the air works fine - Blows cold. I'm in Florida and it's hot out


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

Chevy Customer Care said:


> Hello GetJack3d,
> 
> I'm sorry to learn of the A/C concern you're currently experiencing with your Chevrolet Cruze. We certainly understand how unsettling out of pocket expenses can be, so we do apologize for the outcome. Although we can't guarantee a different resolution, we'd be happy to look into this further. Feel free to send your VIN, contact information, preferred dealership and mileage in a private message.
> 
> ...



Hi Jasmine -- I sent you a private message on 5/22and nobody responded. I'll send another


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

Here’s verbatim what the service advisor at the ChevyDealership said.

“We found that the fan is not blowing at the lower speed.Found either the fan motor not working on low speed, or the module not sendinglow speed command. Both parts are included in the fan assembly. Recommendreplacing the fan assembly (comes with module).
Part #13427161 = $308.78
Labor $256
Shop fee = $59.95
Tax = $43.73
Total = $668.46


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

GetJack3d said:


> “We found that the fan is not blowing at the lower speed.Found either the fan motor not working on low speed, or the module not sendinglow speed command. Both parts are included in the fan assembly. Recommendreplacing the fan assembly (comes with module).
> Part #13427161 = $308.78
> Labor $256
> Shop fee = $59.95
> ...


The part number given is just the fan motor assembly. Given the crapton of control circuits, their statement "Found either the fan motor not working on low speed, or the module not sending low speed command" to be unsettling. The statement "Both parts are included in the fan assembly" is FALSE.

I also realized something after shutting down my computer: If relay KR20E or KR20F sticks closed, there will be no medium speed - the fan will jump to high speed when medium is commanded.


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## KENSTV123 (Sep 21, 2014)

So they did not give any DTC's--they are just guessing--at your expense ! the "module" would be the engine control module and I'm sure it's not cheep and does not look like it's included in the estimate, the service manual has various tests they can perform with the scan tool to run the fan at the various speeds and the temperature senders I mentioned, if out of spec or "skewed" then it could be the problem, the ECM may be seeing not expected readings out of the temp sender and doing the hi speed on/off or it could even be AC system related, the dealer REALLY needs to do the proper diagnosis with the scan tool, the books are real clear on the steps---


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> The part number given is just the fan motor assembly. Given the crapton of control circuits, their statement "Found either the fan motor not working on low speed, or the module not sending low speed command" to be unsettling. The statement "Both parts are included in the fan assembly" is FALSE.
> 
> I also realized something after shutting down my computer: If relay KR20E or KR20F sticks closed, there will be no medium speed - the fan will jump to high speed when medium is commanded.


I wish I had one of you smart guys with me at the dealership. This stuff is way over my head...

I don't even understand half the stuff you're saying. Chevy is probably taking advantage of me because they know I don't have any idea what is going on.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

GetJack3d said:


> I wish I had one of you smart guys with me at the dealership. This stuff is way over my head...


I'm not wild about what they wrote, but it could be sloppy writing by the tech and they really have determined the problem is in the fan - either with the motor or the resistors that cause it to run slower. (Those resistors are part of the fan motor unit.)

One suggestion: Let them do the work, but let them know if it doesn't solve the problem, either they fix it for free or give you a refund because they mis-diagnosed the problem.

I know other guys here know more about the legalities of holding a shop responsible for fixing what they claimed to fix. Hopefully they'll chime in.

Another thought is to call around and ask other shops for a estimate to replace the radiator fan. I know the dealer's price will probably be higher, but that will tell you how much higher. (But be careful about doing that - if you tell them what to do, you can't hold them reasonable if that didn't fix the problem. Just use that information to decide if you want to go somewhere else and then let them re-diagnose the problem.) My gut feeling is the dealer is high, but not so high you can pay the $100 diagnostic fee and still save money getting it done somewhere else.


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> I'm not wild about what they wrote, but it could be sloppy writing by the tech and they really have determined the problem is in the fan - either with the motor or the resistors that cause it to run slower. (Those resistors are part of the fan motor unit.)
> 
> One suggestion: Let them do the work, but let them know if it doesn't solve the problem, either they fix it for free or give you a refund because they mis-diagnosed the problem.
> 
> ...


Funny ....Chevy Customer Service just called and said "We (Chevy) stand behind the diagnosis the dealership made and there's nothing we can do"

I'll make some phones calls to some other mechanics for service. 

Luckily there are nice, smart guys like you ChevyGuy to make up for the slack & BS Chevy feeds us.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

GetJack3d said:


> Funny ....Chevy Customer Service just called and said "We (Chevy) stand behind the diagnosis the dealership made and there's nothing we can do"


Replacing the fan is certainly not far-fetched. It's the diagnostic write-up that bothers me. I'd hope that that Chevy Customer Service would get involved if the repair failed to fix the problem. 

(At this point I'm guessing that the medium speed resistor burned out. That would result in the fan going from low-medium-high to low-off-high. I can certainly see that causing the symptoms you describe. When the Engine Control Module wants "medium" it gets zero cooling. The problem festers until "high" is commanded. Then when it cools off, it goes back toe "medium" and the problem repeats.)

So what I'd suggest is getting assurance of what happens if the repair doesn't work. Either it works or it doesn't.


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

Shout out to everyone on this thread who provided comments and support. I appreciate you all!


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

I would ask for your original parts back, dont sign the box that say you dont want them back. That way you can test what was replaced. They are required to give them back. That will also force the tech to only replace the part that isnt functioning because they will know you are gonna test the old defective equipment.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

So, the fan assembly comes with the resistor....Sounds possible, however, is that to say the resistor is not available as a sevice part?

And, if it is......why are they pushing the assembly on you?

Of course, if it isn't well.......guess you'll have to give us the rest of story once replaced.

Rob


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Robby said:


> however, is that to say the resistor is not available as a sevice part?


The best I can do at GMPartsDirect is the motor with the fan blade.


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

Update...I contacted the dealership and requested they guarantee the work. They responded 

"Yes we guarantee this will fix it before it leaves. If for any reason this did not fix your issue, I wouldn't charge you at all. And the repairs come with a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty"

I have this in writing (email)

I guess I'll pay the $700 since they guarantee the repair will work.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

GetJack3d said:


> Update...I contacted the dealership and requested they guarantee the work. They responded
> 
> "Yes we guarantee this will fix it before it leaves. If for any reason this did not fix your issue, I wouldn't charge you at all. And the repairs come with a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty"
> 
> ...


Fair enouph,

Rob


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

Update....I picked up the car and the very next day it was doing it. Brought it back to the dealership today and they said its the air compressor going bad. They want another $400 from me.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

GetJack3d said:


> Update....I picked up the car and the very next day it was doing it. Brought it back to the dealership today and they said its the air compressor going bad. They want another $400 from me.


I would say sure you can reimburse me the $700 for the unneeded repairs so you can pay me $300 to fix the car! BTW wonder what customer service would say now, since they stand behind the dealers original diagnostics?


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## GetJack3d (May 22, 2015)

spacedout said:


> I would say sure you can reimburse me the $700 for the unneeded repairs so you can pay me $300 to fix the car! BTW wonder what customer service would say now, since they stand behind the dealers original diagnostics?


I was thinking the EXACT same thing! GM stands behind the dealership's incorrect diagnosis? On top of that the dealership GUARANTEED their repair would fix the problem or they wouldn't charge me. 

What do you know...another customer getting screwed over by GM. I bet you the Customer Service team will ask me to discuss over Private Message so the public doesn't see their BS responses.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

They didn't fix your complaint - I say they fix it on their dime. 

If they couldn't tell the difference between a bad fan and a A/C problem, then clearly they botched the diagnostics. There's no way they should have made a mistake between what the fan did and what the car was commanding.


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