# diesel additive question



## chevycruzeassembler (Aug 20, 2013)

Just seen advertisement on hot shot secrets. Mix with oil and it cleans pistons,turbochargers, and other engine parts. Gonna do some reaearch but figured id post a thread to see if anyones heard and knows anything about it.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I've heard it doesn't do anything. Buy quality fuel and change your oil regularly would be a better alternative.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I wouldn't add anything to my oil. A high quality synthetic does everything you need


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I wouldn't add anything to my oil. A high quality synthetic does everything you need


This.

And run a good injector cleaner and a cetane boost if you want to, but don't add anything to your motor oil.

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## cmsdock (Feb 16, 2014)

i put power service diesel kleen in my fuel now and diesel fuel supplement during the winter to prevent gelling. Both have cetane boosters in them as well.


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## danhr (Apr 19, 2014)

The only thing that should go into your oil pan, is oil.

And IMHO, cetane boosters and anti-gelling fuel additives are a waste. I've had diesel vehicles for over 10 years now and live in western Pennsylvania (so the weather gets decently cold). All I do is put a fresh fuel filer in, at the beginning of every winter. And if it's going to get below 0*, I plug in the block warmer a few hours before I leave for work in the morning, or just leave it on all night. And in the past 10 years, I have never had a single gelling problem, fwiw.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

danhr said:


> The only thing that should go into your oil pan, is oil.
> 
> And IMHO, cetane boosters and anti-gelling fuel additives are a waste. I've had diesel vehicles for over 10 years now and live in western Pennsylvania (so the weather gets decently cold). All I do is put a fresh fuel filer in, at the beginning of every winter. And if it's going to get below 0*, I plug in the block warmer a few hours before I leave for work in the morning, or just leave it on all night. And in the past 10 years, I have never had a single gelling problem, fwiw.


I would not say that, it really depends on the quality of the fuel you are getting if you will need anti-gelling additives. most stations switch to a winter blend when cold but not all are created equal. Best bet in the winter is to use them as we seen more than a few users have issues last winter. 

Besides a block heater will not do anything for gelled fuel, only thing you can do is add an anti-gelling additive and get your diesel into a warm garage for a few hours.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

danhr said:


> The only thing that should go into your oil pan, is oil.
> 
> And IMHO, cetane boosters and anti-gelling fuel additives are a waste. I've had diesel vehicles for over 10 years now and live in western Pennsylvania (so the weather gets decently cold). All I do is put a fresh fuel filer in, at the beginning of every winter. And if it's going to get below 0*, I plug in the block warmer a few hours before I leave for work in the morning, or just leave it on all night. And in the past 10 years, I have never had a single gelling problem, fwiw.


My experience is that our fuel in Western PA is pretty good too. only gelling issues Ive ever had was in heavy equipment that had fuel pumped into it from a tank filled in a non-winter month. I use power service for the 1% chance but agree it's probably not necessary most times.

PA has 2%bio mandate too so lubricity is no concern.

an overlooked benefit to ps and competitors is injector cleaning though...especially in a percision common rail engine with an emissions system sensitive to a less than optimal burn...


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

So just to clarify...Bio diesel helps to lubricate the fuel system? 
I have always used Seafoam in all my cars/trucks. In the gas, oil(unless I ran synthetic), and intake. Works great! But I want to use Diesel Kleen in the cruze and add it to the tank asap. Just because it is cheap and if it helps great!

Edit:Also I live just south of Seattle so I don't have to worry about gelling. :jump:But when I visit my grandfather in Spokane for Thanksgiving I will use the white bottle of Diesel Kleen, just in case.


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## poriggity (Apr 30, 2014)

I live where it can get to 10* in the winter. I keep a bottle of Amsoil Cetane boost in my Dodge Ram Diesel and add a touch to the tank when I fill up. That being said, I'm not sure it does anything.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

In the last two decades, they've switched to low sulfur diesel and ultra low sulfur diesel. 

The consequence is that your injectors don't have the same lubrication they used to anymore, which means they (and your pump) are going to wear more quickly. The cetane boost and injector clean additives prevent that wear. I'm not even talking about anti-gelling here. 

The other thing to bear in mind is that new diesels now have particulate filters, which clog and need to be cleaned using an automated regeneration cycle. Using these additives drastically reduces the frequency of that regeneration cycle. In addition, it promotes excellent fuel atomization by keeping those injector tips free of carbon build up, which will improve power and fuel economy. 

Just because you never had an issue doesn't mean your engine was running at its optimal power and efficiency. 

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## danhr (Apr 19, 2014)

spacedout said:


> I would not say that, it really depends on the quality of the fuel you are getting if you will need anti-gelling additives. most stations switch to a winter blend when cold but not all are created equal. Best bet in the winter is to use them as we seen more than a few users have issues last winter.
> 
> Besides a block heater will not do anything for gelled fuel, only thing you can do is add an anti-gelling additive and get your diesel into a warm garage for a few hours.


The only gas station that sells diesel in my town is Sheetz. And anyone in the tri-state area, who knows what a Sheetz is, knows that I am, by far, using quality fuel in my vehicles. lol.

And you are correct. A block heater does a negligible amount of help in gelling. I was just covering my entire "cold weather ritual" to show some people that it does not have to as involved.

And not to degrade some of the users on this forum, but I really thnk you shouldn't use the feedback that users give on here. It really seems, from the short time that I've been on the forum that most problems can either be traced back to operator error. I mean I just read in a thread on when is the appropriate time to start a diesel, when the glow plug light is on, when it's off, how long after it's off, and some people not even knowing what the **** the glow plug light was. A glow plug light is pretty basic diesel vehicle knowledge, and there are users on here that are having problems with that.... I really don't think the car should be getting the blame for poor winter performance.


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## danhr (Apr 19, 2014)

spacedout said:


> I would not say that, it really depends on the quality of the fuel you are getting if you will need anti-gelling additives. most stations switch to a winter blend when cold but not all are created equal. Best bet in the winter is to use them as we seen more than a few users have issues last winter.
> 
> Besides a block heater will not do anything for gelled fuel, only thing you can do is add an anti-gelling additive and get your diesel into a warm garage for a few hours.





XtremeRevolution said:


> In the last two decades, they've switched to low sulfur diesel and ultra low sulfur diesel.
> 
> The consequence is that your injectors don't have the same lubrication they used to anymore, which means they (and your pump) are going to wear more quickly. The cetane boost and injector clean additives prevent that wear. I'm not even talking about anti-gelling here.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure that they have changed injector/engine designs to accommodate the new LS and ULS diesel. *cough cough LB7 duramax cough cough*. which is why they specifically say "ULS Diesel" only.


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## chevycruzeassembler (Aug 20, 2013)

Hot Shot's Secret Stiction Eliminator

Ok thanks guys. Says its for stiction. This is link for it. New to diesel so wasnt sure if it was legit.


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## chevycruzeassembler (Aug 20, 2013)

danhr said:


> The only gas station that sells diesel in my town is Sheetz. And anyone in the tri-state area, who knows what a Sheetz is, knows that I am, by far, using quality fuel in my vehicles. lol.
> 
> And you are correct. A block heater does a negligible amount of help in gelling. I was just covering my entire "cold weather ritual" to show some people that it does not have to as involved.
> 
> And not to degrade some of the users on this forum, but I really thnk you shouldn't use the feedback that users give on here. It really seems, from the short time that I've been on the forum that most problems can either be traced back to operator error. I mean I just read in a thread on when is the appropriate time to start a diesel, when the glow plug light is on, when it's off, how long after it's off, and some people not even knowing what the **** the glow plug light was. A glow plug light is pretty basic diesel vehicle knowledge, and there are users on here that are having problems with that.... I really don't think the car should be getting the blame for poor winter performance.


Well after you been on here a little while you can tell whos advice u should take. And most the time any false advice is usually countered by a knowledgeable member.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

danhr said:


> Pretty sure that they have changed injector/engine designs to accommodate the new LS and ULS diesel. *cough cough LB7 duramax cough cough*. which is why they specifically say "ULS Diesel" only.


They have been made to use the fuel, but that doesn't mean that a 2012 Diesel I injector with ULSD will last as long as a 1995 injector did with the diesel available to it at the time. Ultra low sulfur means that there is very little lubrication for the injectors. Oil makers are supposed to add additives to the oil to help lubricate those injectors in the absence of sulfur levels but many don't add enough and there is little to no regulation. 

I've seen modern truck diesel injectors go at 300k miles. These injectors used to go a million miles before the sulfur was taken out to such drastic extremes. 

GM designed those diesel injectors to use the ULSD just like they designed everything else: to get them past the 100k mile interval. 

Do you think GM cares if your injectors last only 250k instead of 1 million miles? 

The injectors still need lubrication that the fuel no longer offers to the extent it did years ago.

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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

danhr said:


> Pretty sure that they have changed injector/engine designs to accommodate the new LS and ULS diesel. *cough cough LB7 duramax cough cough*. which is why they specifically say "ULS Diesel" only.


with biodiesel, wear scar levels are the same, sometimes better then pre ULSD so lubricity is really not an issue in most states mandating at least 2% in all fuel. Id personally want my injectors to be as spotlessly clean as possible for as long as possible. Every single tiny bit that doesn't get atomized and burned as intended in the combustion chamber is more soot leading to a shorter dpf life. They are not serviceable like the big rigs.

Im kinda happy to see a nice additive debate on here, it's not a true diesel forum until you argue about fuel, additives, oil lol


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Walmart supposedly sells the power service stuff in Canada. To bad the 3 I went to yesterday don't sell it


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## danhr (Apr 19, 2014)

KpaxFAQ said:


> with biodiesel, wear scar levels are the same, sometimes better then pre ULSD so lubricity is really not an issue in most states mandating at least 2% in all fuel. Id personally want my injectors to be as spotlessly clean as possible for as long as possible. Every single tiny bit that doesn't get atomized and burned as intended in the combustion chamber is more soot leading to a shorter dpf life. They are not serviceable like the big rigs.
> 
> Im kinda happy to see a nice additive debate on here, it's not a true diesel forum until you argue about fuel, additives, oil lol


You want your injectors to be clean with biodiesel eh?


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## danhr (Apr 19, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> They have been made to use the fuel, but that doesn't mean that a 2012 Diesel I injector with ULSD will last as long as a 1995 injector did with the diesel available to it at the time. Ultra low sulfur means that there is very little lubrication for the injectors. Oil makers are supposed to add additives to the oil to help lubricate those injectors in the absence of sulfur levels but many don't add enough and there is little to no regulation.
> 
> I've seen modern truck diesel injectors go at 300k miles. These injectors used to go a million miles before the sulfur was taken out to such drastic extremes.
> 
> ...


So when they did the LB7 injector TSB...... why was it up to 200,000 miles?

That's twice as long as your "only need to get it to 100,000 miles" theory.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

danhr said:


> You want your injectors to be clean with biodiesel eh?


Huh? Not following. I was saying I use additives primarily for maintaining clean injectors, not lubricity or anti-gel.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

None of these TDI club pictures are working. Also, since vw sucks at engineering anything other than a cup holder I would wait for cruze problems and not go by vw stuff.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

danhr said:


> So when they did the LB7 injector TSB...... why was it up to 200,000 miles?
> 
> That's twice as long as your "only need to get it to 100,000 miles" theory.


Don't be dense. It isn't a theory; it is their legal liability for the powertain warranty. Technical service bulletins are NOT recalls; they are simply instructions for part replacement dealer technicians to easily diagnose and resolve known issues. Outside the 100k mile warranty, you pay out of pocket regardless of whether or not a TSB exists.

A TSB at 200k miles only validates what I said. Having diesel injectors that last only 200k is frankly pathetic. I can assure you diesel injectors are much more expensive than even a barrel of additives. Keep them clean and well lubricated and you won't have to replace them at 200k.

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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> In the last two decades, they've switched to low sulfur diesel and ultra low sulfur diesel.
> 
> The consequence is that your injectors don't have the same lubrication they used to anymore, which means they (and your pump) are going to wear more quickly. The cetane boost and injector clean additives prevent that wear. I'm not even talking about anti-gelling here.
> 
> ...


That's a very good point!


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## chevycruzeassembler (Aug 20, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> They have been made to use the fuel, but that doesn't mean that a 2012 Diesel I injector with ULSD will last as long as a 1995 injector did with the diesel available to it at the time. Ultra low sulfur means that there is very little lubrication for the injectors. Oil makers are supposed to add additives to the oil to help lubricate those injectors in the absence of sulfur levels but many don't add enough and there is little to no regulation.
> 
> I've seen modern truck diesel injectors go at 300k miles. These injectors used to go a million miles before the sulfur was taken out to such drastic extremes.
> 
> ...


So what are talking as far as intervals I should be adding


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## msav (Apr 24, 2014)

so What is the consensus here. I have been using power service additive in my 85 chevy 4.5l diesel. I was not sure if I should add it to my cruze. I go through a tank a week. So this will surely be an added cost but if it extends the life my injectors and pump I am all for it.

I asked the service guy if any diesel additives were needed or recommended and he said no. But I am sure he wants to replace some parts in the future. I am in california so I do not have a concern for gelling. In fact my cruze did not even come with a block heater.


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

I take what the service guys at the dealership say with a grain of salt, they want to make money. Almost every car/truck that I have owned has said in the manual that no additives should be used, yet every rig that I have had has ran seafoam with zero problems.
I am about to use Diesel Kleen in the cruze at every fill up, I drive 80+miles a day so this will either do nothing or help. Either way I will have peace of mind!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

chevycruzeassembler said:


> So what are talking as far as intervals I should be adding


Use the product as recommended. I am only very familiar with AMSOIL products. Their Injector Clean additive is recommended for 3oz per 15 gallons, every tank and you can get it in 16oz or 64oz bottles:

AMSOIL Diesel Injector Clean Additive

You can go 5 tanks of gas on a 16oz bottle, which for the Diesel is about 3,000 miles. This will keep your injectors clean in addition to adding back the lubrication lost due to the removal of Sulfur from the fuel. A 64-oz bottle is also available, and of course, you can get the 16oz bottles by the case of 12 and use it for 36k miles. A case will basically treat 900 gallons of fuel, at a cost of $0.11 a gallon, if you're paying retail price. 



msav said:


> so What is the consensus here. I have been using power service additive in my 85 chevy 4.5l diesel. I was not sure if I should add it to my cruze. I go through a tank a week. So this will surely be an added cost but if it extends the life my injectors and pump I am all for it.
> 
> I asked the service guy if any diesel additives were needed or recommended and he said no. But I am sure he wants to replace some parts in the future. I am in california so I do not have a concern for gelling. In fact my cruze did not even come with a block heater.


If it has lubricating and injector cleaning properties, I would definitely recommend using it.


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## msav (Apr 24, 2014)

The stuff I am using in my truck says this (added below) So I guess it so have a lubricator added. I will use up what I got. I will be on the look out for something better. I know xtremerev uses amsoil anyone have any other suggestions for me to research. 

Prevents fuel gelling in temperatures as low as - 40°F.
Equals performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels
Lowers Cold-Filter Plugging Point (CFPP) as much as 36°F. — keeps fuel-filters from plugging with wax
Boosts cetane up to 4 numbers for faster cold starts
Contains Slickdiesel® Lubricator for maximum fuel lubrication — protects pumps and injectors from accelerated wear
Contains anti-icing additive — protects against fuel-filter icing
Contains wax anti-settling dispersants — protects against fuel-filter plugging at temperatures below the fuel cloud point
Disperses water in diesel fuel
Effective in all diesel fuels, including Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) and biodiesel blends containing up to 20% biodiesel (B20)


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I will be the guinea pig for fuel injector life with no additives. I will probably go from 60K to 140K miles over the course of the next year if my current driving habits persist.


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## cmsdock (Feb 16, 2014)

diesel said:


> I will be the guinea pig for fuel injector life with no additives. I will probably go from 60K to 140K miles over the course of the next year if my current driving habits persist.


im right behind you but with adding diesel kleen to just about every tank.


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## danhr (Apr 19, 2014)

diesel said:


> I will be the guinea pig for fuel injector life with no additives. I will probably go from 60K to 140K miles over the course of the next year if my current driving habits persist.


I'll join you there. I don't add anything to mine. I probably won't rack up as many miles though.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Bringing back a dead thread but I'd just like to say I finally found the diesel kleen power service locally so I snagged a 946ml bottle. Its the Greg bottle but its not cold this time of year. I'll be interested to see if it boosts my fuel mileage


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

I haven't really been able to tell if there is an increase in MPG. I have been using it at every fill up and do it for peace of mind for the DPF and Fuel pump/injectors.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

zero additives here


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I haven't used anything yet but any extra lube should help.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

So here's a question for you intelligent gentlemen and women on here. Is there any possible damage that could occur using the power service dk to the dpf?


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## VtTD (Nov 5, 2013)

DJSW said:


> I haven't really been able to tell if there is an increase in MPG. I have been using it at every fill up and do it for peace of mind for the DPF and Fuel pump/injectors.


Ditto.. most of the time. I keep it in a ziplock bag, in a ziplock container, in my toolbox. That box comes out out of the trunk a lot in the summer though so I am not religious about every fill up (like in the winter), but more times than not I use it for peace of mind. Really don't notice any MPG difference so whatever it is, it's probably very minor. For what it's worth, with the winter blends gone for now, I notice about 0 difference in MPG from station to station too.


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## vwgtiglx (Jun 13, 2013)

money_man said:


> So here's a question for you intelligent gentlemen and women on here. Is there any possible damage that could occur using the power service dk to the dpf?


Power Service Diesel Kleen gray bottle is for warm weather and the white bottle is for winter. Fuel mileage increase is debatable. I've been using both types in my car since new mainly for increased lubricity for the HPFP and increased Cetane rating. I doubt that it would cause any damage to the DPF.


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## DJSW (Apr 8, 2014)

Damage to the dpf? If anything it should help if I'm not mistaken. Cleaner burn should result in less soot.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I only asked because on the duramax tuning forums a guy was talking about having more regens than normal (albeit that could be from anything) and another guy said he went through 3 dpf's by 27k miles and the dealer blamed it on additives.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

money_man said:


> ... another guy said he went through 3 dpf's by 27k miles and the dealer blamed it on additives.


Well, dealers, I mean, you know?

But if he was using the _wrong_ additives - there are some people who swear by X and will always use X, even if X has BIG *BOLD* lettering on it warning you that putting it on your Weeties in the morning will make monkeys fly out of your butt.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

True. He was using the power service dk. Other guys have had no issues. May just be his specific truck


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## q2bruiser (Jun 8, 2014)

danhr said:


> The only thing that should go into your oil pan, is oil.
> 
> ... I have never had a single gelling problem, fwiw.


I agree on the oil. But, last year it got down to 0F during the day at work. And even though I run only Shell Power-V Diesel, I gelled on the way home in my TDI. It was properly maintained and had a relatively new fuel filter. Had to run some 911 thru it.

Sometimes, no matter how careful you are a fuel additive is needed.


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## q2bruiser (Jun 8, 2014)

danhr said:


> ... when the glow plug light is on, when it's off, how long after it's off ...


I definitely agree many people do not understand some/many of the functions of their vehicles. Vehicles have become more electronically complex over the years. But, manufacturers are not consistent either. For example, in my [now gone] TDI the glow plug does in fact stay on after the light goes out. And on very cold days, it made sense to wait a few more seconds after the light went out to crank.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Seems that a lot of the Cruze diesel owners are running Power Service anti gel in their fuel. But where on the bottle or even their web site does it say that it is compatible with DPF filters and diesel emission sensors or in terms more vague like "Particulate filter friendly and warranty safe" or even "will not harm exhaust after treatment systems"?

Not knocking PS but for the right applications (no DPF ?). I've run PS for the last 10 years and 168K miles in my 2005 6.0L PS without any fuel related issues even when -37F. But where does Power Service say its OK for DPF filters or even any newer emission sensors?? For the Designer brand crowd there is ALWAYS Royal Purple MAX-TANE, they clearly state "safe for DPF filters". Howes Anti-Gel claims "particulate filter friendly",now what does "friendly" mean in technical terms for meeting any requirements for warranty claim purposes ?

In the old days of diesel Rabbits, diesel Toyota pickups, or even '85 Olds diesel it use to be safe to cut the diesel fuel with 10% un-leaded gasoline , kerosene or jet fuel if you could get it for anti-gel purposes, but *NOT* today anymore with the low sulfur fuels and the sensitive diesel equipment in the newer vehicles!


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## 2015 CTD (Feb 7, 2015)

Found some info on there Web page. Link in next reply.


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## 2015 CTD (Feb 7, 2015)

Found this on there Web Page. Third question down.

FAQs | Learning Categories | Power Service


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

2015 CTD said:


> Found this on there Web Page. Third question down.
> 
> FAQs | Learning Categories | Power Service


Good find 2015 CTD :goodjob: , I wonder why they bury this valuable info on their FAQ web page rather then a more usual place like the PDS or even right on the bottle?:question:


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## Blown79ta (Jan 23, 2016)

I've been using PS year around in both diesel powered vehicles since new. A diesel mechanic friend told me it was a good lubricant for the sensitive Cummins injectors


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

theonlypheonix said:


> Seems that a lot of the Cruze diesel owners are running Power Service anti gel in their fuel. But where on the bottle or even their web site does it say that it is compatible with DPF filters and diesel emission sensors or in terms more vague like "Particulate filter friendly and warranty safe" or even "will not harm exhaust after treatment systems"?
> 
> Not knocking PS but for the right applications (no DPF ?). I've run PS for the last 10 years and 168K miles in my 2005 6.0L PS without any fuel related issues even when -37F. But where does Power Service say its OK for DPF filters or even any newer emission sensors?? For the Designer brand crowd there is ALWAYS Royal Purple MAX-TANE, they clearly state "safe for DPF filters". Howes Anti-Gel claims "particulate filter friendly",now what does "friendly" mean in technical terms for meeting any requirements for warranty claim purposes ?
> 
> In the old days of diesel Rabbits, diesel Toyota pickups, or even '85 Olds diesel it use to be safe to cut the diesel fuel with 10% un-leaded gasoline , kerosene or jet fuel if you could get it for anti-gel purposes, but *NOT* today anymore with the low sulfur fuels and the sensitive diesel equipment in the newer vehicles!



I use to run my 91 Jetta TD on 100% kerosene at times as well as JP8 jet fuel as well as a 50/50 mix of diesel and waste veggy oil. The advantages of an old mechanical pump system and no emissions.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

AMSoil injector cleaner/lubricator and cetane boost user here. I don't bother with the cold flow because our fuel in my region is treated properly from the pump.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

This has been posted before and elsewhere. But it bares repeating. 

GM's advice on diesel additives:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--SKyVbN9DJMnVrdnNkeWdmZ1E/preview?pli=1


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Tomko said:


> GM's advice on diesel additives:
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--SKyVbN9DJMnVrdnNkeWdmZ1E/preview?pli=1



GM document appears out of touch with real world general pump grade diesel, apparently they only use refined "LAB" grade diesel for their testing
with a mix of selected amounts of impurities to prove the system works for 100K miles (generally considered self serving testing).


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

IDK...I do not see one reason for any additives in LSD. There are so many sensors on this thing I'd be afraid of long term problems caused by additives.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I will follow GM advice and not use any additives. I use to use power service in a 95 Mercedes diesel and it worked well in that and had 254k miles on it when I sold it. I am more concerned with Cruze diesel I might do more harm than good with an addictive.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I have a friend who loves to put additives in his fuel and his oil. He said it just makes him feel better. he recently put stop leak in his transmission just because. i told him he better get that **** out of there unless he wants to destroy his transmission. I implore him to not add anything but oil to the crankcase and fuel to the tank. It may sink in eventually. He's an extreme case though. I personally use Chevron Techron in my gassers, but that's about it. I don't plan on ever adding anything to my Cruze.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

For those using PS, read the PDS... while they claim it "will not harm DPF on 2007 and newer 
engines", it further states quoting from the PDS that it "Disperses water in diesel fuel".
This is the very type of additive the GMs directive warms about NOT using! They say that if 
one chooses to use an additive that it should be an "alcohol free water demulsifiers type". Note 
that when an additive "disperses" water in diesel fuel it breaks it up into small particles which 
can then potentially pass through the water separator barrier in the filter and into the injection 
system. While a demulsifier type additive will cause the water to form large droplets which 
then drop out of the fuel at the water separator barrier in the filter and can then be drained.

http://www.shoppsc.com/pdf/Power_Service_Diesel_Fuel%20Supplement_PDS.pdf

[url]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--SKyVbN9DJMnVrdnNkeWdmZ1E/preview?pli=1

[/URL]


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

theonlypheonix said:


> For those using PS, read the PDS... while they claim it "will not harm DPF on 2007 and newer
> engines", it further states quoting from the PDS that it "Disperses water in diesel fuel".
> This is the very type of additive the GMs directive warms about NOT using! They say that if
> one chooses to use an additive that it should be an "alcohol free water demulsifiers type". Note
> ...


Some good points there. I revised my statement about PS. i stand by not adding anything to mine.


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## Blown79ta (Jan 23, 2016)

PS is totally alcohol free.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Blown79ta said:


> PS is totally alcohol free.


You miss the point... their PDS claims it is of the dispersion (emulsifier) type which is the problem.

Front page of PDS " * Disperses water in diesel fuel". Definition of disperses, 1) to cause to break up;
2)to distribute (as fine particles) more or less evenly throughout a medium. Where as: Demulsifiers cause emulsified water to separate (fall out of suspension) from fuel into free water so it can be separated mechanically by techniques such as draining or filtering. This is the type of mechanical filter employed by Mann on the diesel Cruze. This maybe have been PS poor choice of words when using "DISPERSE".

In any case GM's language, if using additives, recommends demulsifiers type and it appears that the Mann filter was designed on that underlying principle.

Informative paper on topic:
http://www.ezoil.com/resources-diesel-fuel-additives-emulsification-vs.-demulsification


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Big name diesel additives aren't going to hurt a thing in these vehicles. Whether they help anything is up for debate but if used properly will cause no harm. The key word is properly. 

Our fuel/water separators aren't close to 100% effective to begin with so a few drops of water getting dissolved into the fuel isn't going to cause a problem. The key word is dissolved. A big slug of water going into compression...sure, you might have problems. Even with a decent amount of water in our fuel you'll have problems. Additives also help battle corrosion that water may cause on your pumps and injectors as well. 

Another note...AMSoil's diesel injector cleaner/lube is a demulsifier letting the water seperator do it's thing for what it's worth. 

The manual also tell you not to rust proof and says a lot of things in GM's best interests of having you consume the product as effectively as possible. And by effectively I mean so you don't feel cheated but you need to buy more ****. 

That's my opinion, not gospel so do as you see fit! I'll continue to be an additive guy, I miss a tank once in awhile and don't lose any sleep but juice up the majority of them. I know additives in the gas for my small engines does wonders at keeping the gas fresh and the carbs spotless.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Big name diesel additives aren't going to hurt a thing in these vehicles. Whether they help anything is up for debate but if used properly will cause no harm. The key word is properly.
> 
> Our fuel/water separators aren't close to 100% effective to begin with so a few drops of water getting dissolved into the fuel isn't going to cause a problem. The key word is dissolved. A big slug of water going into compression...sure, you might have problems. Even with a decent amount of water in our fuel you'll have problems. Additives also help battle corrosion that water may cause on your pumps and injectors as well.
> 
> ...


First I would comment that water does not dissolve in diesel fuel, the term is it forms an emulsion. Whether it does any harm is a matter of it "all depends". If we talk about Fords (International) 7.3 and 6.0 HEUI system, small amounts of water in the fuel can crack the hot injector tips and these injectors are very sensitive to "stiction" (sticking) issues. Just as the oil in HEUI systems is sheared by the pressurization process. one should not run the oil for over extended periods. You pick the scenario for yourself, then live with the results... "do you feel lucky"? Generally I follow manufactures recommendations for maintenance and get 250K- 300K miles out of the engines without major problems. I'm also an additive guy but the correct additive for a specific application as GM properly notes! Would you use Ford spec trans fluid in your Cruze or any other GM vehicle? If you would then why not add unleaded gas, kerosene, or JP8 as anti-GEL use to work fine and recommended in the older diesels? Because GM and others do NOT recommend it with the newer diesels!!! Self-serving by GM? I don't think so.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

If it says do not rust proof than gm is hoping the vehicle fails sooner rather than later. If you don't rustproof a vehicle where I live, it won't be here in 8-10 years. If you do from day 1, it will still look like new underneath when you're giving it to a sibling, child, or new owner.


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## Blown79ta (Jan 23, 2016)

I agree that they can't hurt if used properly. I think I add maybe an once or so to each tank, my thoughts are that I'm adding some needed lubricant (for the high pressure pump and injectors) and anti gel (in the winter) to the ulsd we all are using now. My .02


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Blown79ta said:


> I agree that they can't hurt if used properly. I think I add maybe an once or so to each tank, my thoughts are that I'm adding some needed lubricant (for the high pressure pump and injectors) and anti gel (in the winter) to the ulsd we all are using now. My .02


One thing to consider as well is that almost every state has at least 2% bio-diesel content in their fuel. 2% is the sweet spot for lubricity and will lubricate better than any additive will which is why I use them more for cetane boost and injector cleaning+corrosion protection properties. PA is mandated 2% which is great, you get the lube properties without the drawback of running higher concentrations of bio. Higher than around the 2% mark does not increase lubricity of the fuel.

You might want to google your state and see what their bio-laws are (if any).


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> One thing to consider as well is that almost every state has at least 2% bio-diesel content in their fuel. 2% is the sweet spot for lubricity and will lubricate better than any additive will which is why I use them more for cetane boost and injector cleaning+corrosion protection properties. PA is mandated 2% which is great, you get the lube properties without the drawback of running higher concentrations of bio. Higher than around the 2% mark does not increase lubricity of the fuel.
> 
> You might want to google your state and see what their bio-laws are (if any).


I wonder what Ohio is. I normally fuel up in either PA or OH.


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