# Neutral Feature



## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

I have to say I really don't like the feature where the car goes into neutral when it's stopped and the brake is applied for more than a second. They say it conserves fuel. I personally don't think there would be much of a savings in fuel by the car going into neutral. But what I do notice is when I'm sitting on a grade, the car slips backwards when I release the brake. It's almost like having a manual transmission. That's a potentially dangerous situation. Also, I notice when I take my foot off of the brake on a level surface, the car sort of jolts forward a bit. That can't be good for the transmission. At first, I didn't know the Cruze had this feature and I thought there was something wrong. Then, I read it in the owner's manual and I understood why the car slips backwards when I'm on a slope. They even acknowledge this in the owner's manual and they say to be careful when releasing the brake on a grade. I like to inch forward by taking my foot off of the brake when sitting at a red light just before I get going. With this feature, I had to stop doing this.

In my opionion, the benefit of the increase in fuel economy from this feature (which I feel must be minimal) does not outway the risk of slipping backwards and hitting a person or a car behind you. And like I said, that jolt I feel when I release the brake can't be good for the transmission. 

If you feel that you would conserve fuel by the car being in neutral at a traffic light, then you can put the car in neutral manually. At least you have control and you know when the car is in neutral and when it isn't.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Wish this could be disabled, I drive through tons of yield signs & roll many stop signs at 5mph, once I get back on the gas(very easy footed) it very consistently clunks & drops back into gear.


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## jdubb11 (Mar 14, 2012)

with the 1st 2012 1.4 automatic i had, it would jolt from n to d when slightly taking my foot off the break. i thought it was annoying and terrible and i was going to take it in to see if it could be adjusted somehow. that car ended up getting totalled at 2k miles. i bought another 2012 1.4 auto and this car does not jolt into drive one bit which makes me much happier. neither of the two cruzes ever rolled backwards. even at stoplights that were on hills(like a stoplight before a bridge crossing).


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## Cruzemeister (Mar 22, 2011)

jdubb11 said:


> with the 1st 2012 1.4 automatic i had, it would jolt from n to d when slightly taking my foot off the break. i thought it was annoying and terrible and i was going to take it in to see if it could be adjusted somehow. that car ended up getting totalled at 2k miles. i bought another 2012 1.4 auto and this car does not jolt into drive one bit which makes me much happier. neither of the two cruzes ever rolled backwards. even at stoplights that were on hills(like a stoplight before a bridge crossing).


On a GM vehicle? Oh yeah, I had that on my Cruze LS auto. Traded for a '13 Dodge Dart. 1.4T manual. Hill hold feature is actually quite nice there. Clutch action is very easy to master. But the takeoff power has to be learned as to avoid getting caught in a time warp due to the laws of physics being challenged..... 
Penny.. knock knock knock , Penny ......


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## VictoryRed08 (Feb 16, 2011)

Richard said:


> I have to say I really don't like the feature where the car goes into neutral when it's stopped and the brake is applied for more than a second. They say it conserves fuel. I personally don't think there would be much of a savings in fuel by the car going into neutral. But what I do notice is when I'm sitting on a grade, the car slips backwards when I release the brake. It's almost like having a manual transmission. That's a potentially dangerous situation. Also, I notice when I take my foot off of the brake on a level surface, the car sort of jolts forward a bit. That can't be good for the transmission. At first, I didn't know the Cruze had this feature and I thought there was something wrong. Then, I read it in the owner's manual and I understood why the car slips backwards when I'm on a slope. They even acknowledge this in the owner's manual and they say to be careful when releasing the brake on a grade. I like to inch forward by taking my foot off of the brake when sitting at a red light just before I get going. With this feature, I had to stop doing this.
> 
> In my opionion, the benefit of the increase in fuel economy from this feature (which I feel must be minimal) does not outway the risk of slipping backwards and hitting a person or a car behind you. And like I said, that jolt I feel when I release the brake can't be good for the transmission.
> 
> If you feel that you would conserve fuel by the car being in neutral at a traffic light, then you can put the car in neutral manually. At least you have control and you know when the car is in neutral and when it isn't.


My car does this all the time. My solution? When on a hill or any kind of grade, I slide the shifter into manual mode (causing the car to go back into gear) and no more rollback


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## Mick (Dec 31, 2011)

Cruzemeister said:


> On a GM vehicle? Oh yeah, I had that on my Cruze LS auto. Traded for a '13 Dodge Dart. 1.4T manual. Hill hold feature is actually quite nice there. Clutch action is very easy to master. But the takeoff power has to be learned as to avoid getting caught in a time warp due to the laws of physics being challenged.....
> Penny.. knock knock knock , Penny ......


I think this could be solved with any manual regardless of make.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Maybe GM needs to add hill hold to their automatics that implement neutral stop. Hill hold is a crutch in many manuals, incuding the Sonic. Maybe automatics need it as well.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Or they just need to realize that the stop-neutral feature causes the premature death of many transmissions and disable the feature entirely. 

Other manufacturers have had the idea, and even with otherwise strong transmissions, they all died early because of this feature. It puts unnecessary wear on the transmission internals and solenoids.


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## rodneyiii (Oct 23, 2012)

Is there somewhere in the Owner's manual where this neutral mode is described. I read about it in another thread and cannot tell that my car is releasing the gear when stopped. I do know that is has the hill start feature with the Auto because there is a slight delay before the brake releases from a stop. Maybe that is what you are feeling. If the car is actually shifting itself into N, it sure doesn't feel the same as when I move the shifter from D to N. There is a noticable disengagement when I shift it frm D to N. Are you sure it isn't just a low tranny pump pressure at idle that allows the car to roll backwards rather than it actually being in N?
Thanks.


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

You'll get used to this feature. I did, and I don't notice it any more. I don't think the car has ever rolled backward more than an inch, if that much. But I suspect the reason for me not noticing anymore could be because this is a learning transmission and that's one of the things it learned. Or my guess could be wrong.

This feature does save gas by allowing to idle at lower RPMs than it would if the transmission is in gear. I remember tuning my old Pontiac that had points in it. Set the idle speed with the transmission in park, and check to make sure the idle speed was correct for the transmission in gear also. Two separate specs.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

GoldenCruze said:


> This feature does save gas by allowing to idle at lower RPMs than it would if the transmission is in gear. I remember tuning my old Pontiac that had points in it. Set the idle speed with the transmission in park, and check to make sure the idle speed was correct for the transmission in gear also. Two separate specs.


I thought it was just the opposite. When you first start a car when it's cold, it races. When you put it into gear, the idle actually decreases. Putting it back into neutral or park increases the idle. I believe it's supposed to save fuel by taking some of the load off of the engine. I don't really believe there's much of a benefit from it. And as I said and it was mentioned by others, this can't be good for the transmission. I live in the city and I'm at traffic lights at almost every corner. There's not a big jolt when it switches from neutral back into gear, but you can feel a slight jolt. I just feel that can't be good for the transmission. It's like shifting into drive with you're foot off of the brake. Over time, that will cause transmission issues. The funny thing is I don't notice it going into neutral, but I certainly notice it going back into gear.

If there is gas savings from this feature, I don't believe that benefit outways the risk of rolling backwards or premature transmission failure.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Because cars these days are built to be replaceable. Likely, this feature gives them .5-1 mpg in-town, at the expense of the life of the transmission. While an engineer said it would probably be a bad idea; some engineer schmuck that moved over to the marketing department somewhere told them to do it at the expense of the life of the transmission to give the Cruze a slight advantage in fuel economy.

It's rare these days to find an automatic transmission that will last upwards of 100K-150K. They want your money, be it replacing a transmission, OR buying a new car from them down the road.


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## Richard (Dec 1, 2012)

rodneyiii said:


> Is there somewhere in the Owner's manual where this neutral mode is described.


It's on Page 9-27 of the 2013 Owner's Manual. They don't get into much detail. This is what it says:
"The vehicle has an automatic neutral shift feature which allows the transmission to automatically shift to N (Neutral) when the vehicle is stopped with a forward gear engaged. The reduced load on the engine improves vehicle fuel economy".

It's also on Page 17 of the "Getting to Know Your 2013 Cruze" booklet. This is what it says: 
"The transmission has a fuel-saving Neutral shift feature. It shifts into Neutral when the vehicle comes to a stop and the brake pedal is applied. It shifts back to Drive when the brake pedal is released. When stopped on a hill, the vehicle may roll very slightly before shifting into Drive"._._

It's funny that they don't mention the vehicle roll in the Owner's Manual - just the supplemental booklet. It's an important enough issue to mention. And it's more than a very slight roll. With my car, it can roll back several inches before it engages. When I first got my car, I was unaware of this feature and I noticed the vehicle roll when I was on a hill. I thought that the car had a weak transmission that couldn't hold the car in place when on a hill. Then I read the "Sticky" on this forum and that's when I found out about this feature.


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## rodneyiii (Oct 23, 2012)

Richard said:


> It's on Page 9-27 of the 2013 Owner's Manual. They don't get into much detail. This is what it says:
> "The vehicle has an automatic neutral shift feature which allows the transmission to automatically shift to N (Neutral) when the vehicle is stopped with a forward gear engaged. The reduced load on the engine improves vehicle fuel economy".


Thanks. I found it this morning. Apparenty, what I thought was Hill Start Assist is actually the re-engagement of the tranny into Drive. My son's Spark has HSA so I thought the Cruze had it also. The D to N transition is more subtle than the N to D. I notice it more in my garage when I stop and then want to move a few more inches forward. I let off the brake but the car doesn't move then all of a sudden - BUMP it moves forward. In close quarters it can be a litte surprising.


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## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

Doesnt this shift occur everytime the brake is applied? I mean when shifting from P to D with brakes applied the trans is actually in N. The trans actually stays in N until brakes are realeased correct? So this funtion happens all the time not just at traffic lights.


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## Pete in PA (Dec 1, 2012)

I wonder how many switches are on the brake pedal. If there is a seperate switch for this an adjustment might help. Specifically have the tranny re-engage before the brakes fully release.

Mine must be good, I have to really pay attention to notice it even on a hill.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Key problem is in the torque converter itself, both a driving and a driven turbine that still maintains fluid coupling even at idle. The compression of fluid generates a lot of heat in particular in city driving where 90% of the driving is done.

Shifting in neutral saves this extra heat generation, especially when waiting for hours for that damned traffic light to change. With automatic idle control that maintains constant engine speed, a lot more load is put on the engine consuming a lot more fuel. Shifting in neutral also permits reducing the fluid cooling hardware.

With my AT vehicles, just automatically switch to neutral, heat is the major damaging control to an AT. Electronic wise, to shift automatically, just the question of switching off a valve in the AT.

In dealing with 2011 models, was told the only way I could buy an Eco with a spare tire was to get it with an automatic, 2LT and LTZ were only available with an automatic, didn't want that either, so Chevy lost a sale with me.

When the 2LT came out in the 2012 models, was finally available with both the manual and a spare tire, so they finally made a sale. Didn't care for four wheel disc brakes, always a very expensive problem to repair, even doing it myself and they really don't add anything to the stopping power of a vehicle. But gave in on that, at least they plated the rear calipers, older ones of cast iron would rust like crazy, but I coated them with anti-seize anyway for more protection.

Plus with an automatic, just one tiny fluid leak anywhere will cause clutch slippage that will destroy your transmission without any warning. To top this off, made it darn miserable to check your fluid levels. Could post what GM can do with their new automatics, but if I did, would be banned from this site.


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

AutumnCruzeRS said:


> Doesnt this shift occur everytime the brake is applied? I mean when shifting from P to D with brakes applied the trans is actually in N. The trans actually stays in N until brakes are realeased correct? So this funtion happens all the time not just at traffic lights.


No. The automatic shift into neutral only happens when the car comes to a full stop and the brake is applied. If there is any motion at all, then the transmission remains engaged. I don't know if it is neutral when manually shifting out of Park.

I can see this being an issue if the car rolls back significantly after letting off the brake, or to seems to thump into gear. I've never experienced either. I get maybe an inch of rollback and it's engaged. I don't agree that the feature is necessarily harmful to the transmission. Time and milage will tell.


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## rodneyiii (Oct 23, 2012)

From what I'm now noticing, the tranny doesn't fully disengage to neutral unless it is actually in the N position. It feels like a reduced engagement by cutting fluid pressure to the clutches or something similar. It still reduces engine loading but also helps minimize driveline shock everytime it transitions back into gear when the brakes are released. Before I was aware of this feature, I was putting the car into N at stop lights to save fuel. I quit putting it into Park because the door locks would disengage and then re-engage going back into D. Now I don't have to worry about doing either one.


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