# Potential Diesel buyer advice?



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I would encourage you to read up on the failure of the dual-mass flywheels in the Gen 2 Cruze diesel. They seem to have a higher failure rate on these than the 1.4 turbo - maybe from the higher torque or vibration put out by the 1.6 TD.

However, I've driven the 1.6 diesel with the 9 speed auto and was pretty impressed with how well they got along.


----------



## turboguy327 (Feb 24, 2019)

Yea, the DMF is the reason I’m researching the 9AT. Luckily I have dealer auction access but they don’t list diesel separately. But I’m looking for the same thing you are. Haha. Good luck with your search.


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Thanks,

I guess it might be a little early to know the long term reliability of these but I haven't heard much about the diesels one way or another yet. I should mention I don't know much about diesels but I consider myself a pretty decent wrench for basic jobs and am pretty diligent about maintenance I just don't want to rush into something with serious design problems. I've kept my escape (2005) going on original engine and trans at 282k miles with no sign of slowing down its just at this point the rust is starting to win the war 

If the diesels are going to be trouble I guess I could still consider the gas one (they certainly are cheaper and easier to find) but that's why I'm asking around now. Also in the back of my mind trying to figure how hard it will be to source parts in 5-10 years if I kept one for the long haul. 

thanks


----------



## rry3158652 (Jan 23, 2018)

I think the Cruze Diesel should check all your boxes.
I drive a 2018 CTDHB, love it! More than 20K miles with no problems.
46-53 MPG
I’m 6’ tall plenty of room for me.
Grandchildren that sit in child car seats 
Plenty of cargo area with at least 1 rear seat down


----------



## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

Love my 6MT diesel. It actually handles really well with the accessory Chevy springs on it. It seems to sacrifice trunk space for interior space, which I'm fine with--the rear seat is really spacious. I loaded a couple of 6'+ friends in the back and they said they were completely comfortable for a 100 mile drive back there. 

Fuel economy is great on the highway but drops quickly when you start pushing it. Of course it does, it's a small turbo running 27psi of boost. 

I haven't had any issues with mine at all. The only thing I complain about is that there's no space to put a phone in the **** car.


----------



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

resurgent cineribus said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I guess it might be a little early to know the long term reliability of these but I haven't heard much about the diesels one way or another yet. I should mention I don't know much about diesels but I consider myself a pretty decent wrench for basic jobs and am pretty diligent about maintenance I just don't want to rush into something with serious design problems. I've kept my escape (2005) going on original engine and trans at 282k miles with no sign of slowing down its just at this point the rust is starting to win the war
> 
> ...


The main issue with modern diesels is the emissions control systems - mainly, the DPF (diesel particulate filter) sometimes clogging itself and not being able to regenerate to burn off soot - this happens if you do a lot of short trip driving or something like an air leak is causing lots of soot to build up; the car will give you warnings to "keep driving" if it fails to complete multiple times. Beyond that period, it will begin a mileage countdown to a speed limiter until you fix the emissions system. The urea injection has also been known to cause issues - freezing up, bad fluid, or bad exhaust sensors.

The Gen 2's have had LESS emissions issues around this forum than the Gen 1 diesels, but they are still new and not too many of them out there. The 1.6 diesel has been around for a couple years overseas before it came here, with a fairly good track record. The 9 sp auto is still quite new.

The Gen 2 platform of the Cruze has been fairly reliable overall - especially compared to the Gen 1. There have been a few electrical/build bugs, such as bad gaskets around the high stop lamp on sedans causing water to get into the battery tray, infotainment system glitches, and tie rods that seem to loosen up and clunk for no good reason before they were replaced with a revised part. 

282K is darn impressive for that Escape if it's the CD4E automatic. We've had 2 in the family - great cars, but the automatic has failed on both ~150K. Rust is beginning to get the better of the '01 as well.


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Thanks for everyones advice so far. My normal commute to my main office is about 40 miles one way and that often has a period of stop and go traffic in the middle (the only time i might regret having the manual if its not a fairly easy one to drive) and many days I have to travel throughout the day too so short trips are somewhat rare to say the least and fuel is not an insignificant part of my limited budget. I know these ones require DEF to be filled up periodically. 

As long as most maintenance stuff is pretty easy I don't imagine i'll have much trouble; I'm hoping to find one that has at least some of its warranty left. I'm sure if I bought one there's lots of knowledge floating around here. I live in Mich which of course means lots of cold, horrible roads and salt/rust so keeping a car together is a challenge (If I buy anything more than a year or two old I'd probably buy it down south to buy some time before the rust takes over) So far it sounds like most diesel owners are pretty satisfied; kind of a shame the car didn't catch on better and the automakers keep killing off car models. 

Which brings me to finding one. Do you think any dealers still have 2018s in stock? I don't really want the 19 since its automatic only. Hopefully hyperlinks are allowed I did just find this one on ebay that is pretty close to what I'd want (only missing the fancy seats!) I think half the time the dealers barely even know the diesel is a thing. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-Chevr...h=item3b2bdfc7ed:g:MVAAAOSwY7lcc0XH:rk:3:pf:0

17.5 seems pretty reasonable right? The MSRP as I spec'd it came to about 26k. Depending on finding one I wonder how aggressive the discounts are. Fortunately I have a little time to search. 

Yes thanks, my goal has been to hit 300k but I'm not sure I'll get to. One of my rear strut towers rusted completely through and is now poking through the interior; furthermore the repair bracket that could be used has to attach to a piece of frame where mine is about 2/3 rusted through. Such a shame because it still runs great and the body looks pretty good cosmetically. Maybe I'm superstitious but I've always changed the oil with Valvoline maxlife 5w20 every 3,000 regardless of how many people told me that was overkill (mine is the V6). I believe mine is the CD4E which is a strange layout (no real replaceable filter but it does have a drain plug that I periodically refresh the ATF every few oil changes because its so easy. Neither the engine or trans have ever had major work done (maybe I'm just lucky?) I have no idea what I get for MPGs these days but its probably not that great; a more fuel efficient car would help a bit with making the payments.


----------



## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Checked AutoTrader and Craigslist for new Gen 2 Cruze Diesels, pretty dry out there nationwide.

Best bet might be to have a local dealer search for you and work a dealer trade. New 18/19 diesels are probably out there...just scarce and not advertised on the normal sites.

If you buy one, just make sure you get it out on the highway and run it for distances often. The emissions systems will stay happier that way.

Maybe if you keep searching “It Will Rise From The Ashes” 

Good luck!


----------



## cdccjohnson (Apr 10, 2018)

I have a 18 diesel hatch 6sp. Purchase it as a certified used at the end of march 2018 with 7k miles. It now has 32k. Its been a perfect vehicle for my needs. Most weeks I drive 300 mile one way commute from St Augustine to Ft Lauderdale and back. The car is relatively quiet and comfortable and the hatch is very flexiable. Most weeks I average 50+ MPG. Flat FL roads. Usually set the cruise at 72-73 which seems to be ideal for speed vs mpg. Like most cars, MPG crashes as you get much above 70. Just had my first service trip due to check engine light - it was a bad sensor in the emmissions system. I have done all the oil changes/tire rotations myself. 

Would I purchase again - yes. However, I would consider the automatic, simply because you cant get the bose sound system/sunroof with the 6sp and at times I am starting to get lazy and shifting is a bit more trouble. Audio is important but cant justify spending the $$ to upgrade - sorta of defeats the money saved from the 50mpg. Only real complaint is the leather seats are hot with no ventilation. I purchased a wicker seat cover off of amazon that had a lumbar support. Made a big difference, although at times I feel like a cab driver. The other thing to think about is that the price premium for diesel eats into the savings from the mpg. Use gas buddy to find where to purchase, as diesel seems to have a larger variation between stations than gas. Truck stops are the last place you want to buy fuel.

Good luck with the decision and search. 6speeds were few and far between a year ago. I still follow the market and 6speed hatchbacks are just no where to be found.


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

I've had my 2018 TD manual for just over 12k miles and it really checks all the boxes. I've had two road trips where it got 66 mpg for the whole trip, and have hit 70 mpg on the "last 50" a handful of times. It's very fun to drive, the space is pretty generous (granted I am a 5'6" woman), comfortable interior. The downside as others have mentioned is the potential for emissions system trouble, and the potential flywheel issues. I got an extended warranty for those reasons. Also I'm hopefully an outlier, but my turbo failed last month and it took GM five weeks to provide the dealer with a part. So unfortunately if I'm honest I would consider potential lack of support from GM as a factor. However, the fact that I stuck that out and plan to stick with the car says something ... I couldn't think of anything that could even begin to replace it. So I will continue to rave about this car but just suggest you be prepared for some of the potential difficulties and the fact you may end up with a loaner here and there. The positives still outweigh the negatives to me.

Sorry to hear your Escape is being eaten by rust. I know that pain. I finally took my beloved 87 Mercedes off the road in 2016 with 314k miles. I am actually in the process of restoring it but am lucky to have the space and budget for more than one car. Original engine and transmission, ran great, was the most reliable car I had. Rust stinks!


----------



## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

These things definitely like the freeway runs, the fuel economy skyrockets and all that torque means you don't have to downshift to get around really anyone. 

I've had zero issues with mine. Tons of traffic here. It's fun in the canyons. I can't heel-toe it which is very frustrating. That and the lack of a spot for my phone are my only gripes. Zero actual problems with it.

This motor is an Opel motor and they've sold zillions of them in Europe, I wouldn't worry about engine reliability really at all.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Good advice here.. I'd add seriously look at a sedan. The trunk is very large, better MPG, lower cost. Final assembly in OH. The DMF is a real concern for the manual, but even with mine replaced at 12k under warranty, I still love the car, it's a very easy manual to drive. I also have 2 9sp autos. That is a solid transmission, don't rule it out. 

With the seats up, the hatch has virtually no cargo space.. make sure you look at one in person.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

My 2017 auto sedan just pushed by 44,000 miles today. I've had 1 DEF issue the first month I had the car. The injector was broken and needed replaced, possibly cracked at the factory. Not a problem since then.

I routinely get high 40s to mid 50s mpg on my 1.5 hour trip to work every day.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Unless you can get a diesel Cruze for zero or very close to zero cost over a comparable gasoline model, it's a worthless purchase. Even for zero cost it's still questionable. Fuel costs will be higher to the point that the higher fuel economy will not offset the additional purchase price of a gasoline model. That, and every single part to maintain or repair a diesel model is higher cost than the gasoline engine. You can easily achieve 40+ mpg highway with gasoline Cruze vehicles. Buying a diesel gets you about 50 mpg, so it's a 25% increase in fuel economy. But the cost of fuel is higher and then DEF is a cost factor.

In about 16,000 miles of driving I have figured out that a diesel purchase just doesn't make sense when you can get high efficiency with a gasoline model.


----------



## Z71 (Jan 1, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> Unless you can get a diesel Cruze for zero or very close to zero cost over a comparable gasoline model, it's a worthless purchase. Even for zero cost it's still questionable. Fuel costs will be higher to the point that the higher fuel economy will not offset the additional purchase price of a gasoline model. That, and every single part to maintain or repair a diesel model is higher cost than the gasoline engine. You can easily achieve 40+ mpg highway with gasoline Cruze vehicles. Buying a diesel gets you about 50 mpg, so it's a 25% increase in fuel economy. But the cost of fuel is higher and then DEF is a cost factor.
> 
> In about 16,000 miles of driving I have figured out that a diesel purchase just doesn't make sense when you can get high efficiency with a gasoline model.


I have a 2013 Chevy Sonic sedan, which is one size smaller than my Cruze, but it still has a fairly large trunk. It has a 1.8 liter non-turbo 4 cylinder engine and 5 speed manual transmission. I get 36 MPG average mostly in city driving with A/C on, around 40 MPG in highway driving. And this on regular 87 octane. Very few issues with the car so far, I have 86k miles on it. Getting 50 MPG with Cruze vs 40 MPG with Sonic does not translate to any savings, as diesel is about 50 cents/gallon more expensive than regular gas. Plus the cost of DEF.

I like the Sonic shifter better than the one in Cruze, as it has shorter throws. Interestingly enough, while where were numerous issues with the 6 speed manual transmission in Cruze initially (also used in Sonic with 1.4 turbo engine), there were practically no problems with the 5 speed manual version.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> Unless you can get a diesel Cruze for zero or very close to zero cost over a comparable gasoline model, it's a worthless purchase. Even for zero cost it's still questionable. Fuel costs will be higher to the point that the higher fuel economy will not offset the additional purchase price of a gasoline model. That, and every single part to maintain or repair a diesel model is higher cost than the gasoline engine. You can easily achieve 40+ mpg highway with gasoline Cruze vehicles. Buying a diesel gets you about 50 mpg, so it's a 25% increase in fuel economy. But the cost of fuel is higher and then DEF is a cost factor.
> 
> In about 16,000 miles of driving I have figured out that a diesel purchase just doesn't make sense when you can get high efficiency with a gasoline model.


Hmmm, I just had a gasoline Cruze rental on a business trip. 169 miles, virtually all highway... 33MPG, calculated from 5 gallons of fuel. I just got 52MPG in my Diesel, calculated, virtually identical driving conditions. That is a pretty massive difference. I could add that the gasoline engine screams higher RPM yet doesn't have the get up an go low end torque of the diesel. Where I live there is minimal cost difference from gasoline to Diesel, some parts of the US diesel is cheaper. As to DEF, it's statistically insignificant. A $7 2.5gallon jug at Walmart will get you well over 6000 miles... That is about a penny every 10 miles, and it's possible to get cheaper DEF at truck stops. 
Yes, it's true the Diesel costs more to buy, but I got 2 of mine for $20k, well equipped... A comparable gasoline car with similar options would be about $17-18 k.. over the first 6 years with 12k/year the fuel cost savings cover that and then some, drive 24k per year it's covered in about 3 years. Beyond that the fuel savings cover the possible additional parts costs. This is just math. I should point out that it's typical to get near double the milage before overhaul than a much higher RPM gasoline engine.. that and there have been some difficulty with the gasoline engine and burning pistons, and some have determined that it really is best to use 89 or higher octane fuel to get best performance... All that said, the gasoline engine car is a fine option for some, especially if you look to replace the car before 5 years, and definitely if you drive limited miles. The diesel is an option that can make sense for higher milage, especially highway heavy drivers. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

MRO1791 said:


> Hmmm, I just had a gasoline Cruze rental on a business trip. 169 miles, virtually all highway... 33MPG, calculated from 5 gallons of fuel. I just got 52MPG in my Diesel, calculated, virtually identical driving conditions. That is a pretty massive difference. I could add that the gasoline engine screams higher RPM yet doesn't have the get up an go low end torque of the diesel. Where I live there is minimal cost difference from gasoline to Diesel, some parts of the US diesel is cheaper. As to DEF, it's statistically insignificant. A $7 2.5gallon jug at Walmart will get you well over 6000 miles... That is about a penny every 10 miles, and it's possible to get cheaper DEF at truck stops.
> Yes, it's true the Diesel costs more to buy, but I got 2 of mine for $20k, well equipped... A comparable gasoline car with similar options would be about $17-18 k.. over the first 6 years with 12k/year the fuel cost savings cover that and then some, drive 24k per year it's covered in about 3 years. Beyond that the fuel savings cover the possible additional parts costs. This is just math. I should point out that it's typical to get near double the milage before overhaul than a much higher RPM gasoline engine.. that and there have been some difficulty with the gasoline engine and burning pistons, and some have determined that it really is best to use 89 or higher octane fuel to get best performance... All that said, the gasoline engine car is a fine option for some, especially if you look to replace the car before 5 years, and definitely if you drive limited miles. The diesel is an option that can make sense for higher milage, especially highway heavy drivers.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


I agree, the torque of the diesel is really nice and IMO worth a slight price premium.
Plus it is the only Cruze to get the 9 speed AT, which I so far really like. 
The MPG is a lot better on the diesel cars as well. Just look at the reported Fuelly averages of gas vs. diesel Cruze's. 

In my area, diesel is a bit cheaper than premium gas, which is what I would have been running if I had bought a gas Cruze. So, I feel I am ahead with the diesel Cruze as well.


----------



## Big M (Nov 25, 2017)

I have owned several diesel cars in my life and last year chose to get a Cruz diesel. I personally like the power economy and ride. I debated the cruise and the Jetta however the Jetta is our scares and demanding a lot of money. Also is the Jetta is dated compared to the cruise. The technology package is nice I enjoy that very much. On the way home I got 60.7 miles per gallon then while at the dealership they had a California recall that cut into the economy by 10 percent. I always get 40 miles a gallon knocking around my neighborhood and a little over 50 on trips. I will probably chip The car later on. In fact, I like the car so much I will be purchasing an extended warranty for 150,000 miles. So in closing I would like to say from me, I love the car and I am happy with my decision.


----------



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MRO1791 said:


> it's typical to get near double the milage before overhaul


People keep saying this like it's something that frequently happens in passenger cars. Oh, yeah, someone put 300,000 miles on a car and then put the engine in for an overhaul to keep on truckin'.

No one does that. Or almost no one does that. These aren't semi tractors where rebuilt engines are frequently fitted to dodge new emissions regulations and the cost of buying new. Passenger cars routinely rust/fall apart around the engine. I can count two people I've known in my life that had an engine rebuilt. One was a Chevy Astro van that they had a guy do a ring job and light rebuild on a weekend because it was cheap enough to make it worth it for a vehicle that was otherwise fine. The other was a Chevy Equinox with the POS made-in-China engine that dropped a valve, so a Jasper rebuilt engine was in order for a vehicle with only 40,000 miles on it.

Everything else becomes worthless to say you're going to overhaul and engine and keep the same vehicle. Technology is advancing enough that people desire new cars to get the latest Bluetooth satellite radio whatever. Or their car has tons of rust. Or the brakes, struts, tires, etc. are also all clapped out and it's another $2,000 to fix all that. 

These mythical engine rebuilds for long-term car ownership just don't happen.


----------



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Barry Allen said:


> People keep saying this like it's something that frequently happens in passenger cars. Oh, yeah, someone put 300,000 miles on a car and then put the engine in for an overhaul to keep on truckin'.
> 
> No one does that. Or almost no one does that. These aren't semi tractors where rebuilt engines are frequently fitted to dodge new emissions regulations and the cost of buying new. Passenger cars routinely rust/fall apart around the engine. I can count two people I've known in my life that had an engine rebuilt. One was a Chevy Astro van that they had a guy do a ring job and light rebuild on a weekend because it was cheap enough to make it worth it for a vehicle that was otherwise fine. The other was a Chevy Equinox with the POS made-in-China engine that dropped a valve, so a Jasper rebuilt engine was in order for a vehicle with only 40,000 miles on it.
> 
> ...


Our 5-cyl Volvo finally blew up at 250,000, and my brother elected to just drop another engine in it.

Personally, I'd have crushed the thing years ago...for sure, the rest of the car falls apart around the engine if the body doesn't rust out first.


----------



## turboguy327 (Feb 24, 2019)

Big M said:


> I have owned several diesel cars in my life and last year chose to get a Cruz diesel. I personally like the power economy and ride. I debated the cruise and the Jetta however the Jetta is our scares and demanding a lot of money. Also is the Jetta is dated compared to the cruise. The technology package is nice I enjoy that very much. On the way home I got 60.7 miles per gallon then while at the dealership they had a California recall that cut into the economy by 10 percent. I always get 40 miles a gallon knocking around my neighborhood and a little over 50 on trips. I will probably chip The car later on. In fact, I like the car so much I will be purchasing an extended warranty for 150,000 miles. So in closing I would like to say from me, I love the car and I am happy with my decision.


You can’t tune it and add the warranty. The tune will void the power train warranty.


----------



## turboguy327 (Feb 24, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> People keep saying this like it's something that frequently happens in passenger cars. Oh, yeah, someone put 300,000 miles on a car and then put the engine in for an overhaul to keep on truckin'.
> 
> No one does that. Or almost no one does that. These aren't semi tractors where rebuilt engines are frequently fitted to dodge new emissions regulations and the cost of buying new. Passenger cars routinely rust/fall apart around the engine. I can count two people I've known in my life that had an engine rebuilt. One was a Chevy Astro van that they had a guy do a ring job and light rebuild on a weekend because it was cheap enough to make it worth it for a vehicle that was otherwise fine. The other was a Chevy Equinox with the POS made-in-China engine that dropped a valve, so a Jasper rebuilt engine was in order for a vehicle with only 40,000 miles on it.
> 
> ...


I’ve rebuilt plenty of engines... Both for performance reasons and to keep a vehicle going. I buy cars with blown engines and repair them all the time. If people didn’t rebuild engines, machines shops wouldn’t be so easy to come by.


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Unless you can get a diesel Cruze for zero or very close to zero cost over a comparable gasoline model, it's a worthless purchase. Even for zero cost it's still questionable. Fuel costs will be higher to the point that the higher fuel economy will not offset the additional purchase price of a gasoline model. That, and every single part to maintain or repair a diesel model is higher cost than the gasoline engine. You can easily achieve 40+ mpg highway with gasoline Cruze vehicles. Buying a diesel gets you about 50 mpg, so it's a 25% increase in fuel economy. But the cost of fuel is higher and then DEF is a cost factor.
> 
> In about 16,000 miles of driving I have figured out that a diesel purchase just doesn't make sense when you can get high efficiency with a gasoline model.


I can't really speak to what mpg I'd be getting in a gas Cruze manual though I'd love to try one on a trip and see. Yes, from what I've heard you can easily get 40 mpg on the highway. But I easily get over 60 mpg on the highway in my diesel. Not 50. Road trip of 1,200 miles round trip, averaged 66 mpg. Road trip of 750 round trip, averaged 66 mpg. And as mentioned I have hit 70+ mpg on the "last 25" many times and a few times on the "last 50". So 40 vs 65 is not a small difference. At that ratio even now with the biggest price split between gas and diesel I see per year (70 cents) the diesel less $ per mile. And in the summer, diesel and regular are around the same price where I live. And as MRO1791 mentioned, the gas Cruzes seem to do better on higher octane fuel so that's worth factoring in too. 
Don't get me wrong, for sure the gas would be a better economical choice for many people depending on driving habits. But to say a diesel is a "worthless purchase" is a stretch. People just need to do the math and weight various aspects. It's not like most people make a 100% economical choice, anyway. When you factor that diesel is a little more spirited with its torque, it was the obvious choice for me. It wasn't that much more expensive than a similarly equipped gas Cruze. The biggest drawback to me is the reliability issues and potential for lack of support from GM but I decided to take a chance.


----------



## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

There are a lot of pro's and con's about owning a diesel, so here is my take on it. I bought new in 2012 and currently have just passed 69K km. Most of my trips are short and the engine spends much of the time below normal temperature. I have a light that warns me when I need to keep driving and it has lit up 3 times in the life of the car. In 6.5 years I have had 0 mechanical issues. The main difference to the US cars is no snow in winter and no DEF tank. I didn't buy just for economy, but for that big car lazy feeling you get with a torquey engine. At 110 kph on the freeway it is doing 1750 rpm, so engine wear is low. If you buy a car like you are an accountant the chances are you don't enjoy driving, the rest of us buy something we actually want to drive.


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Barry Allen said:


> People keep saying this like it's something that frequently happens in passenger cars. Oh, yeah, someone put 300,000 miles on a car and then put the engine in for an overhaul to keep on truckin'.
> 
> No one does that. Or almost no one does that. These aren't semi tractors where rebuilt engines are frequently fitted to dodge new emissions regulations and the cost of buying new. Passenger cars routinely rust/fall apart around the engine. I can count two people I've known in my life that had an engine rebuilt. One was a Chevy Astro van that they had a guy do a ring job and light rebuild on a weekend because it was cheap enough to make it worth it for a vehicle that was otherwise fine. The other was a Chevy Equinox with the POS made-in-China engine that dropped a valve, so a Jasper rebuilt engine was in order for a vehicle with only 40,000 miles on it.
> 
> ...


It is true that gas engines last long enough that most cars fall apart before the engine needs any major work. 

For those that drive tons of miles a year a diesel is still a solid bet. 

Not a lot of people rebuild engines anymore, because they do last longer and its not worth it by the time it is needed. 
I have swapped in good low mileage junk yard engines recently though. It can still be worthwhile.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Barry Allen said:


> People keep saying this like it's something that frequently happens in passenger cars. Oh, yeah, someone put 300,000 miles on a car and then put the engine in for an overhaul to keep on truckin'.
> 
> No one does that. Or almost no one does that. These aren't semi tractors where rebuilt engines are frequently fitted to dodge new emissions regulations and the cost of buying new. Passenger cars routinely rust/fall apart around the engine. I can count two people I've known in my life that had an engine rebuilt. One was a Chevy Astro van that they had a guy do a ring job and light rebuild on a weekend because it was cheap enough to make it worth it for a vehicle that was otherwise fine. The other was a Chevy Equinox with the POS made-in-China engine that dropped a valve, so a Jasper rebuilt engine was in order for a vehicle with only 40,000 miles on it.
> 
> ...


Might not happen for you, but I have a 1962 Land Rover.. It does not have the original engine. My 1996 Saturn has over 200,000, and is close to needing a re-build, it burns some oil, but otherwise runs fine, and the body and rest of the car are fine, where I live they don't salt the crap out of the roads so cars don't rust away in 5 years. 

Experiences will vary, and for the kind of person interested in a diesel, these are the kind of people who are more likely to keep a car a long time, just look a the VW TDI types, they tend to keep a car for a long time. 

So the point is, just because you don't see it often, or never, and it does not apply to you, does not mean it is not a factor for other people.


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Thanks for the feedback everyone; lots of good points/ideas. 

I have crunched the numbers a bit. gas/diesel prices fluctuate sometimes at different rates times. Last time I filled up I think diesel was 2.99 and 87 was about 2.30. I think i mentioned in the beginning that I do a lot of highway driving which probably is a pro for the diesel; my commute to work is about 30 miles each way and I do a far amount of driving for work throughout the day some days. It possible that under some conditions my costs could be a little less with the gas but even then it would be close (and probably more likely the diesel would win) i'm less worried about calculating the exact break-even point vs gas with initial purchase price especially if i buy a lightly used one that has already been hit pretty hard by depreciation. I'm driving an old V6 escape right now and probably average 2-2.5 tanks of gas a week (14 gallon tank). I didn't do the math on that but the gas savings over my current car will probably be a nice perk with how much driving I do. 

I do worry about major mechanical system issues ie clutch, turbo, etc. Years ago a friends TDI jetta (that introduced me to small diesels and i learned to drive a stick in) had the turbo fail while we were driving through the mountains; that car barely made it up them without the turbo kicking in. I've been shopping some almost new-used ones that still have at least a good chunk of factory powertrain warranty on. Basic maintenance and repairs I'm plenty happy to do myself

The longevity of gas vs diesel engines may or may not be a major factor. My escape is still cruising along with 282k on it but the rust is what is killing it. Unless I moved or got a dedicated winter beater it will probably be what kills all my cars before the engine goes (assuming a decent engine of course) With that said in several years if you needed a replacement or rebuilt gas engine they'll probably be easy to find vs diesel. 

I'm shopping around seeing if i can make a purchase happen. I suppose i should at least go by a dealership and sit in one just to make sure its a good fit for me before buying.


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

resurgent cineribus said:


> I do worry about major mechanical system issues ie clutch, turbo, etc. Years ago a friends TDI jetta (that introduced me to small diesels and i learned to drive a stick in) had the turbo fail while we were driving through the mountains; that car barely made it up them without the turbo kicking in.


It's probably worth noting regarding my car's turbo failure that I wouldn't have even noticed it if it weren't for the check engine light and feeling like it didn't have quite as much oomph on hard acceleration. It was from what I'm told an internal electrical failure causing the variable veins (or maybe even just one of them) not to open all the way. But otherwise it still worked. Given that I haven't heard anyone else have the issue I'm not sure the issue itself is too likely to happen to another TD. The wait time to get a part was the big concern in my mind because I worry it will happen with other parts.


----------



## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

If you're looking for cost / benefit in a new Cruze diesel vs gas you won't find it. Besides the premium paid for the car new the fact that diesel is significantly more expensive than gas *and probably always will be* washes away any money savings because of increased economy. In fact it's probably more expensive to own the diesel over the life of the car because of the added fuel expense.

Anyhow, I chose the diesel because I love the torque curve. 1.4t just doesn't do it for me for my daily commuter.

Definitely go drive one. Try to drive a gas and a diesel. You might just save yourself a bunch of time and research if you don't like them.




resurgent cineribus said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone; lots of good points/ideas.
> 
> I have crunched the numbers a bit. gas/diesel prices fluctuate sometimes at different rates times. Last time I filled up I think diesel was 2.99 and 87 was about 2.30. I think i mentioned in the beginning that I do a lot of highway driving which probably is a pro for the diesel; my commute to work is about 30 miles each way and I do a far amount of driving for work throughout the day some days. It possible that under some conditions my costs could be a little less with the gas but even then it would be close (and probably more likely the diesel would win) i'm less worried about calculating the exact break-even point vs gas with initial purchase price especially if i buy a lightly used one that has already been hit pretty hard by depreciation. I'm driving an old V6 escape right now and probably average 2-2.5 tanks of gas a week (14 gallon tank). I didn't do the math on that but the gas savings over my current car will probably be a nice perk with how much driving I do.
> 
> ...


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

firehawk618 said:


> If you're looking for cost / benefit in a new Cruze diesel vs gas you won't find it. Besides the premium paid for the car new the fact that diesel is significantly more expensive than gas *and probably always will be* washes away any money savings because of increased economy. In fact it's probably more expensive to own the diesel over the life of the car because of the added fuel expense.


Again, people need to do the math and observe fuel prices local to them. To say no one will find an advantage or money savings are "washed away" is extreme. Again, every summer almost without fail there is a time when diesel and regular are priced the same where I live and usually a day or two where diesel is actually cheaper. Factor in that I'm getting 20 mpg more on the highway than a gas Cruze (assuming I would get 45 mpg in a gas Cruze), and that is a huge savings per mile during those months. As I said before right now diesel is 70 cents more expense and that would put me close to even with cost for a gas model. So over the course of a year the fuel cost is cheaper in a diesel, in my specific case. Do I drive enough to offset the upfront cost of the car? Maybe not. But it wasn't that much more expensive than the same spec gas model so in theory I would eventually make it up. And if I drove a ton, at the fuel prices I see, I would make it up. Like I said, the math might favor the gas car in many people's case and I didn't really chose on math alone. But to say the fuel cost is a wash or negated no matter what isn't accurate ... because it varies and there are some people, even if a minority, that will save because of the diesel's fuel economy.


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Uh oh I didn't mean to start huge debate on cost/efficiency/roi lol

Yes there are a lot of variables but I imagine I might fall into the camp that would ultimately come out ahead. Near my house today a gallon regular is 2.55 and diesel is 2.83. Assuming mostly highway driving at 40MPG for the gas (6.38 cents per mile) and 50mpg for the diesel (5.67 cents per mile) My 38 mile each way mostly highway commute route trip would be about $4.30 for the diesel and $4.84 with the gas. Yes I didn't factor in the DEF because I'm not too sure the average miles per gallon of DEF (I thought it was around 5000-6000?) at around $10 a gallon? that would add in roughly .2 cents per mile (and would no doubt be paid for with all the autozone gift cards I get as rebates)

So yes assuming these numbers only I'd come out ahead even if not by a lot. The cost differential up front also assumes you are buying brand new and I think that narrows a bit on the pre-owned market. For someone like me that drives 25-30k miles a year and tends to keep cars for over 10 years there may eventually be a break-even point but like some of you the mileage isn't the only consideration. As a bit of an enthusiast I like the extra torque and to have something a little unique. The only variable that would torpedo any of these calculations is if one engine was significantly more reliable than the other.


----------



## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

resurgent cineribus said:


> As a bit of an enthusiast I like the extra torque and to have something a little unique. The only variable that would torpedo any of these calculations is if one engine was significantly more reliable than the other.


Sometimes I feel like I'm driving a science experiment. And I kinda like that.

The answer is always "it depends."

I like the long range. I fill up about once a week. There's value in that for me. Tough to put a dollar amount on that.

I think I do come out ahead on cost per mile because I'm averaging close to 55 MPG lifetime with little special effort to drive economically. A gasser Cruze just isn't going to do that.

I'm planning to put at least 300k miles on my Cruze. I've put close to that on gasoline engines too, so that's probably a wash.


----------



## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

Man these fuel economy numbers y'all are posting are nuts. I get 40s. But I live in the hills and drive like a bozo. I think the sedan gets better fuel economy than the hatch, and the auto better than the stick...so I have both of those going against me.


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Yeah the sedan is a little better than the hatch but strangely on these cars the auto knocks off a few MPGS. I know auto transmissions have gotten good enough that they usually beat the rated manual MPGS (in the old days it tended to be the opposite) not on this one though


----------



## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

froyofanatic said:


> Man these fuel economy numbers y'all are posting are nuts. I get 40s. But I live in the hills and drive like a bozo. I think the sedan gets better fuel economy than the hatch, and the auto better than the stick...so I have both of those going against me.


Yeah I can't break 50 MPG very often. 
Here in my area I almost never get to draft another vehicle, that and we always seems to have a head wind...


----------



## JPinSTL (Jul 9, 2018)

froyofanatic said:


> Man these fuel economy numbers y'all are posting are nuts. I get 40s. But I live in the hills and drive like a bozo. I think the sedan gets better fuel economy than the hatch, and the auto better than the stick...so I have both of those going against me.


I'm with you. All these claims of 60+ are hard for me to accept. I drive 120 miles round trip for my commute from the start of the Ozark to STL Metro weekdays. I run 75-80mph and I've seen 48mpg in the Summer (bought in July '18) and low 40s in the winter. I have a 6spd HB


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

JPinSTL said:


> I'm with you. All these claims of 60+ are hard for me to accept. I drive 120 miles round trip for my commute from the start of the Ozark to STL Metro weekdays. I run 75-80mph and I've seen 48mpg in the Summer (bought in July '18) and low 40s in the winter. I have a 6spd HB


The high MPG is with 60-65 MPH, and the lower drag of the sedan, as well as low rolling resistance tires factor in. To get 48MPH going as fast as you are going is actually pretty amazing.. see if you can find any other car getting that with those speeds. Another factor is fuel quality.. yes for diesel it can vary and significantly impact MPG. It could also play into your situation. On my Gen 2s the life time averages are all in the mid 40s, and long trip highway miles are mid 50s, in the right conditions 60+ is very possible. Best 50 mile is 69MPG, and I've verified computer to actual fuel from fill up, the computer is consistently lower than actual by 1-2MPG. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## JPinSTL (Jul 9, 2018)

My '00 Golf TDI 5spd turbo'd and chipped was pretty consistent for 42mpg Summer and 39mpg Winter for the same commute and 9yrs/250,000 miles. But it was pretty used up by 350,000. I know cetane is an issue, but I really have now way of testing. I do buy 90% of my fuel from the same 3 stations and have for 10yrs. The Cruze was averaging 45-46mpg over the Summer and seems to be about 41-42mpg this Winter, all hand calculated. I will say it calculates out a bit better than the computer says I'm doing by about 3mpg. I did once see 53mpg over 50miles running 65mph on the interstate on a cool morning with no AC late this Summer.

I'm completely happy with the MPG, even with DEF thrown in.

My old Golf 1.9L with the upgrades and the Cruze 1.6L are very similar power wise. VW shifted smoother and the turbo came in much faster. However the Cruze is quieter, eeks out a little better MPG, and has 20yrs of improved conveniences.


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

JPinSTL said:


> I'm with you. All these claims of 60+ are hard for me to accept. I drive 120 miles round trip for my commute from the start of the Ozark to STL Metro weekdays. I run 75-80mph and I've seen 48mpg in the Summer (bought in July '18) and low 40s in the winter. I have a 6spd HB


Sedan vs hatch makes a pretty big difference between the aerodynamics and the larger wheels. Also my 65 mpg tanks of fuel were on road trips where I hit almost no traffic, going 65-70 with a few stretches faster or slower. Pure highway miles. There are a lot of factors .. fuel quality, driving style, weight of driver/cargo, tire pressure etc. I'm not claiming I average 60+ mpg all the time ... just that it routinely hits that mark on long enough highway stretches and I find that very impressive. If I really wanted to lie about my mpg I'd go all-in and quietly change the DIC to UK mpg and tell everyone I was getting 100 mpg. :wink:


----------



## Z71 (Jan 1, 2019)

Big M said:


> I have owned several diesel cars in my life and last year chose to get a Cruz diesel. I personally like the power economy and ride. I debated the cruise and the Jetta however the Jetta is our scares and demanding a lot of money. Also is the Jetta is dated compared to the cruise. The technology package is nice I enjoy that very much. On the way home I got 60.7 miles per gallon then while at the dealership they had a California recall that cut into the economy by 10 percent. I always get 40 miles a gallon knocking around my neighborhood and a little over 50 on trips. I will probably chip The car later on. In fact, I like the car so much I will be purchasing an extended warranty for 150,000 miles. So in closing I would like to say from me, I love the car and I am happy with my decision.


Can you elaborate on that "California recall"? Is this something that involves only automatic transmission cars or manual one too? To my knowledge , these cars are 50 states compliant, so there is nothing different about cars sold in California that would require a California specific recall.


----------



## Z71 (Jan 1, 2019)

MRO1791 said:


> Hmmm, I just had a gasoline Cruze rental on a business trip. 169 miles, virtually all highway... 33MPG, calculated from 5 gallons of fuel. I just got 52MPG in my Diesel, calculated, virtually identical driving conditions. That is a pretty massive difference. I could add that the gasoline engine screams higher RPM yet doesn't have the get up an go low end torque of the diesel. Where I live there is minimal cost difference from gasoline to Diesel, some parts of the US diesel is cheaper. As to DEF, it's statistically insignificant. A $7 2.5gallon jug at Walmart will get you well over 6000 miles... That is about a penny every 10 miles, and it's possible to get cheaper DEF at truck stops.
> Yes, it's true the Diesel costs more to buy, but I got 2 of mine for $20k, well equipped... A comparable gasoline car with similar options would be about $17-18 k.. over the first 6 years with 12k/year the fuel cost savings cover that and then some, drive 24k per year it's covered in about 3 years. Beyond that the fuel savings cover the possible additional parts costs. This is just math. I should point out that it's typical to get near double the milage before overhaul than a much higher RPM gasoline engine.. that and there have been some difficulty with the gasoline engine and burning pistons, and some have determined that it really is best to use 89 or higher octane fuel to get best performance... All that said, the gasoline engine car is a fine option for some, especially if you look to replace the car before 5 years, and definitely if you drive limited miles. The diesel is an option that can make sense for higher milage, especially highway heavy drivers.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


Don't assume gasoline engine cars cannot be as just as durable as diesel engine cars. While there are diesel cars which, when properly maintained, could go well over 500k miles without any major engine or transmission work (e.g. 123 chassis Mercedes Benz 300 D), I seriously doubt that is the case with more modern diesel cars. Cars are simply built too cheap nowadays, engines are way too complicated with ridiculous emission systems, and even if the engine block/transmission can last a long time, it is the electronic controls and sensors that will make repairs economically unsustainable as the car or truck ages. 

I had 340k miles on my 1999 Mazda 626 ES V6 and the car still ran great with the original engine and transmission without any major work having been done(I bought the car new). I know of people who had Volvo 240 cars with 300k+ miles on the original engine/transmission. Same for Nissan hardbody pickups and Toyota 1980s pick up trucks, some with well over 500k miles on the original engines/transmissions.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Z71 said:


> Don't assume gasoline engine cars cannot be as just as durable as diesel engine cars. While there are diesel cars which, when properly maintained, could go well over 500k miles without any major engine or transmission work (e.g. 123 chassis Mercedes Benz 300 D), I seriously doubt that is the case with more modern diesel cars. Cars are simply built too cheap nowadays, engines are way too complicated with ridiculous emission systems, and even if the engine block/transmission can last a long time, it is the electronic controls and sensors that will make repairs economically unsustainable as the car or truck ages.
> 
> I had 340k miles on my 1999 Mazda 626 ES V6 and the car still ran great with the original engine and transmission without any major work having been done(I bought the car new). I know of people who had Volvo 240 cars with 300k+ miles on the original engine/transmission. Same for Nissan hardbody pickups and Toyota 1980s pick up trucks, some with well over 500k miles on the original engines/transmissions.


And everything you are concerned about with modern Diesel engines, except the emissions is applicable to modern gasoline engines as well. As far as the emissions go, many improvements have been made, and with the heavy trucks now using these systems over many more miles than is typical for most cars, I'd expect those issues to become less of a concern. I get the complexity of the electronics, but generally I think the quality in many areas is far better than prior cars. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> Sedan vs hatch makes a pretty big difference between the aerodynamics and the larger wheels. Also my 65 mpg tanks of fuel were on road trips where I hit almost no traffic, going 65-70 with a few stretches faster or slower. Pure highway miles. There are a lot of factors .. fuel quality, driving style, weight of driver/cargo, tire pressure etc. I'm not claiming I average 60+ mpg all the time ... just that it routinely hits that mark on long enough highway stretches and I find that very impressive. If I really wanted to lie about my mpg I'd go all-in and quietly change the DIC to UK mpg and tell everyone I was getting 100 mpg. :wink:



The hatch also comes with the RS pack standard with the heavier, wider wheels & tires which likely makes a big difference. Worth it to me though as it handles like a little hot hatch!


----------



## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

froyofanatic said:


> The hatch also comes with the RS pack standard with the heavier, wider wheels & tires which likely makes a big difference. Worth it to me though as it handles like a little hot hatch!


The hatch definitely has its advantages too, I really struggled with the decision when I bought mine! The torque with the slightly better handling was great, and I love the looks of it. If I could I'd have one of each haha.


----------



## Jazzism1111 (May 11, 2016)

Hi. I've had the '14 Cruze Diesel. I enjoyed it. 

Maintenance wise I was going through the diesel exhaust sensors like candy every 6-10 months. $200 a pop and there's 3 of them. Of course I drove out of the manufacturers warrantee. The newer models haven't got there yet though. 

I broke down and traded it in for the Kia Niro hybrid and here's my observations. 
Mileage on the highway is actually on par with each other per thankfully. The Niro has a smaller tank at that and no extra def tank. But around town driving the diesel lost 30-40% and the Niro lost about 5%. So almost the same as highway driving. My eyes popped out. 

It's a crossover/hatch. I liked that a lot.

The dealer doubled my warrantee from 100k to 200k (Canadian kilos). The Chevy is nowhere near that ballpark.

Creature features are close to par and it's lower priced too! If there's a car show near you, go and the all the manufacturers offer a bonus benefit like a discount or whathaveyou. 

The Cruze is great, I enjoyed it but I'm astounded what the Kia Niro is giving me.


----------



## allenbradley (Mar 7, 2019)

I drive a 2018 CTDHB, love it! More than 20K miles with no problems. 46-53 MPG we also have been using this for long time as a 24/7 towing service and very satisfied with the performance.


----------



## power4utoo (Dec 11, 2018)

OK, so real quick. I have the 1.4 liter turbo. I am happy with the acceleration and the fun to drive aspect, being that I have a 6 spd. If you are just looking at gas mileage. Do the calculation per mile. In New Jersey, where I live diesel 3.09/gal. Calculate out 46 MPG and it really is a wash. It is 6.6 cents per gallon versus my 7 cents per gallon @ $ 2.45 per gallon @ 35 MPG. (1.4 lit turbo). So I guess it comes down to torque? Are you getting from 0-60 faster? IDK about that... I could be missing something, but your #1 advantage you listed was MPG, and I don't see a net advantage there price-wise. What am I missing?


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Well again I feel like there are too many variables to keep debating the MPG/cost per mile but in my mind the main two are: Cost differential between 87 and diesel and the mix of driving you do. 

In the prices you mentioned Diesel had a 20.7% higher cost than gas. My gas station as of this morning had 87 for 2.59 and diesel for 2.89 so for me at this moment the price difference is only 10.4% so yes given those numbers the difference starts to get narrower. The other is the mix of driving you do, my driving is probably 85% highway so thats where diesel shines but if I changed and my commute became more city driving then yes the gas might end up being the better fit. There are too many time and regional factors in the price of fuel at any given moment. The extra torque/power band is also a big selling point for me. A friend years ago had a TDI jetta that I loved to drive so I'm hoping the Cruze comes close to that (although that wasn't the most reliable car)

With all that said I'm excited because I have a purchase pending on a 2018 hatch 6 speed with pretty low miles, in beautiful condition and a good piece of warranty left. It is out of state so I will have to figure out when I can go pick it up.


----------



## atikovi (Dec 27, 2011)

I'd be nervous owning any late model diesel out of warranty. See how much just one fuel injector costs or a turbo or the injection pump. Plus all the complicated emissions stuff. On a $50K pickup used for work, OK. But a few years down the road when it's worth under $10K and the dealer wants $2000 to replace the turbo, you might regret it.


----------



## Z71 (Jan 1, 2019)

atikovi said:


> I'd be nervous owning any late model diesel out of warranty. See how much just one fuel injector costs or a turbo or the injection pump. Plus all the complicated emissions stuff. On a $50K pickup used for work, OK. But a few years down the road when it's worth under $10K and the dealer wants $2000 to replace the turbo, you might regret it.


The injector pressures in these cars are around 20,000 psi vs about 2,000 psi for mechanical fuel injector older diesels. I too suspect that repairs on this engine will be very expensive once out of warranty. And GM could not even offer a 100k miles, 5 year powertrain warranty on this diesel engine? I am not encouraged when I see cheap materials used in construction of this car. Cheap plastic everywhere, even clutch master cylinder and hydraulic line to clutch slave cylinder is plastic!


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Z71 said:


> The injector pressures in these cars are around 20,000 psi vs about 2,000 psi for mechanical fuel injector older diesels. I too suspect that repairs on this engine will be very expensive once out of warranty. And GM could not even offer a 100k miles, 5 year powertrain warranty on this diesel engine? I am not encouraged when I see cheap materials used in construction of this car. Cheap plastic everywhere, even clutch master cylinder and hydraulic line to clutch slave cylinder is plastic!


Repairs on any modern car can be expensive. Gas engines are going direct injection, with injectors that won't be cheap , along with fuel pumps, etc. As to plastic parts, sure all cars are going that way. Anyone who relies in dealership service for repairs for any car risks expensive repairs. A transmission on any car is going to be expensive.. the marginal additional cost of diesel parts is insignificant when fuel cost savings are factored in. 

Now I should point out that the commercial, heavy duty vehicle market where fuel and maintenance costs are calculated and vital to ability to make profit or go out of business.. that is dominated by Diesel engine powered vehicles. Make of that what you will, but it's a pretty good endorsement of diesel being economically viable as an engine choice in any vehicle.. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> Repairs on any modern car can be expensive. Gas engines are going direct injection, with injectors that won't be cheap , along with fuel pumps, etc. As to plastic parts, sure all cars are going that way. Anyone who relies in dealership service for repairs for any car risks expensive repairs. A transmission on any car is going to be expensive.. the marginal additional cost of diesel parts is insignificant when fuel cost savings are factored in.
> 
> Now I should point out that the commercial, heavy duty vehicle market where fuel and maintenance costs are calculated and vital to ability to make profit or go out of business.. that is dominated by Diesel engine powered vehicles. Make of that what you will, but it's a pretty good endorsement of diesel being economically viable as an engine choice in any vehicle..
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


for heavy weights, sure

otherwise, not so much...see fords investment in big gas motors for vehicles


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

boraz said:


> for heavy weights, sure
> 
> otherwise, not so much...see fords investment in big gas motors for vehicles


Driven by challenging and expensive, and recent emissions standards... The cost of diesel emissions has come down, technology has improved. That and all emissions systems and motors hate frequent short run / city style driving.. but it's worse for Diesel emissions. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Heavy duty and industrial applications aren't an appropriate point of argument for cost effectiveness of diesel in light duty application. 

Heavy diesels for years were able to use far less refined fuel and there was a SIGNIFICANT cost savings when that raw fuel cost was compounded by the fuels power density. ULSD use on road has reduced some of that cost gap, but off-road and stationary diesel engines including marine still run essentially crude(ifo380,ifo180,MDO) which costs somewhere near $1.60/gallon but would kill anything we think of as a modern diesel engine. You just weren't gonna get that much power out of a carbureted engine back in the day. Compression ignition oil burners were the only choice based on technology and power requirements. These days compression ignition engines running on biofuel, LNG and CNG are starting to gain widespread use, they are expensive.

Gas engines are cheaper than compression ignition, I can't think of a current diesel engine that is not more expensive than its gasoline alternative, and is cheaper or even same price to service. They have more expensive parts typically, they have more parts to fail as well. And the need to reduce their emissions even further to remain relevant which means we are likely to see diesels wane in popularity as gasoline engines with homogenous compression ignition capabilities, lean stratified running capabilities and the requisite multiple injection functionality, active thermal management and exhaust after treatment will see gas engines get even more efficient and even cleaner. Despite the obvious cost increases based on the technological advances and the increased complexity of the vehicle with a Next Generation gasoline engine I believe you'll still find that the fact that the gasoline engine is cleaner than a comparable Modern Diesel and still less complex and less expensive, and a Modern Diesel will have to reduce its emissions even further in order to get close to where gasoline is now, let alone where it's headed in the very near future.

I love diesels. I think they are great. But applying diesel tech to gas engines makes the gas engines even cleaner and more efficient and still cheaper and less complex than today's diesel.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

That was a little rambly...Sorry. LOL


----------



## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

Bottom line is I enjoy my little oil burning hot hatch because it's fun to drive, handles great, it's unique, and gets crazy good mpg. It's also the only oil burning car in the US that can be had with a stick.


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

froyofanatic said:


> Bottom line is I enjoy my little oil burning hot hatch because it's fun to drive, handles great, it's unique, and gets crazy good mpg. It's also the only oil burning car in the US that can be had with a stick.


Yup. They are fun. I'd love a deleted, tuned 1.6 6M. Rolling coal on Hondas LMAO


----------



## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

Ma v e n said:


> ...and a Modern Diesel will have to reduce its emissions even further in order to get close to where gasoline is now, let alone where it's headed in the very near future.


I've put forth the notion, with the increasing use of electric cars, that perhaps the 2-car family evolves into having an electric town car and a gasoline powered road car. 

Driving into town in the electric, running some errands, and then heading back to the burbs will usually fit within the range of the battery without needing to charge it while away from the house. The benefit is that, with no emissions, urban areas will have cleaner air while the car's limited range presents few problems when used this way.

Conversely, the gas fired car would be used for road trips where its emissions are spread over a much wider area and thus will not result in the brown haze bubble seen from the windows of aircraft when approaching urban areas.

The complaint that diesels pollute even more than gasoline burning cars makes them even more ill suited for urban use. But perhaps, like long haul trucks, using diesel cars in rural areas - ie, as road cars - may present a viable market niche for them. Maybe there's still hope for them  

Doug

.


----------



## //oilburner (Mar 9, 2019)

What's your recommendation on the best Service Manual for the Gen2 Diesel and best location/price to purchase?


----------



## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

//oilburner said:


> What's your recommendation on the best Service Manual for the Gen2 Diesel and best location/price to purchase?


Helminc.com


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Well I officially own one of these now and am planning to go pick it up this weekend!

Looks like the forum is somewhat split between loving their Diesel and concerns about maintenance/reliability. I'm hoping I end up being more in the first category!


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Hi everyone!

I picked up my car over the weekend and absolutely love it. Mine is a black on black hatch in amazing condition (the owner was a professional car detailer!) Black wasn't my first choice when looking but with the tints this one really works and looks amazing. The previous owner is a great guy and really loved this one but couldn't keep two cars (he is a huge car nut so that is quite the endorsement; his replacement was a much higher end sports car but he still missed lots of things about the cruze) I have all the documentation and remaining warranty. The car was about 6 hours from my house so I got a one way car rental (Toyota Yaris) and he picked me up at the return. Boy comparing this with that little Yaris is a stark difference. The poor little yaris was brutally utilitarian and felt every bit its small size. 

The Cruze drove like a champ the 400 miles home and averaged 47MPG back (got home with 3/8 tank left) It really feels like a bigger car on the road and the torquey engine barely needed any input from me and was perfectly content to stay in 6th on Cruise control. It felt like the engine barely broke a sweat with anything i threw at it. 

Sure time will tell how it holds up but I absolutely love this car. I'm simultaneously super impressed and super disappointed that GM built such an amazing car then killed it. Sure everyone is moving up to bigger crossovers and such but I think they could have done a better job promoting it to win some buyers over. With the interior space of the hatch I think I will rarely miss the room of my escape (but then now my girlfriend has a pick up for big loads anyway) The seats are great (though I'm hoping to swap in the leather ones!) I'm about 6'2 and not a small guy and the car is super comfortable and roomy. I've never driven a car that better combines looks, power, driving dynamics, efficiency and practicality. It was totally worth all the homework and travel to get. 

Anyway just letting everyone know if they were curious and thanks for the advise. As a now owner I'll likely be a regular on this forum. Cheers!


----------



## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Congrats RC, well done!


----------



## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

Congrats! 

Yeah, the hatch sacrificed trunk space for interior space, but fold down the seats and that's all moot. Spacious inside for such a small car! 

Enjoy!


----------



## resurgent cineribus (Feb 26, 2019)

Agreed, I guess the sedan has a pretty good size trunk but the way I carry things around they tend to roll around and be tough to get to. Yesterday it held a weeks groceries comfortably and today I had to move a 32" TV which fit right in without even having to move seats around. 

I was a little rusty on driving a stick and did manage to stall it out a few times but I got it home and should be a pro in a few weeks of driving! I'd also say this was a good car to learn stick on since the clutch is pretty forgiving and the engine has enough torque to compensate. I imagine some of the higher performance cars would be a bit tougher to live with day in and out. I'm looking forward to learning some of the maintenance steps like replacing the fuel filter and anything else to keep in running great. 



This is a pretty good rebuttal to the crossover obsession IMO. It's not super low/hard to get in either.


----------



## macfam (Mar 18, 2019)

I recently purchased a 2019 Chevy Cruze diesel. I have had several diesel cars and pickups over the years. My daily driver for the last seventeen years has been a 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI manual. So far, I like the Cruze much more than the Jetta. The Cruze has a little more room, is more comfortable, and has a reasonable automatic transmission. I recommend this car to anyone who wants a diesel engined car that has the modern amenities available in most new cars.


----------



## Codester (Mar 31, 2019)

The Cruze Diesel is a rare gem, my friend. The 6 speed manual is the way to go. The gears practically shift themselves, the torque keeps you from stalling, mated with diesel it can haul ass when you need it too. I have a sedan but I've heard only good things about hatch space. Ride is quiet, console buttons are straight forward. Seats are comfortable. 10/10 and you could pick up a used one for under 20k


----------



## rcruze (Mar 22, 2018)

Congrats on getting the car. IMO you will love it. On my 2018 6sp sedan I just rolled over 62K miles and the only issue I have had is 1 TMS sessor in the wheels. But when I get my new tires I will get that fixed...


----------



## dundonrl (Jul 11, 2017)

I realize this is a few months old.. but here's some of the fuel economy markers that I've been able to obtain in my 17 Cruze diesel with 6 speed..


----------



## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

plano-doug said:


> I've put forth the notion, with the increasing use of electric cars, that perhaps the 2-car family evolves into having an electric town car and a gasoline powered road car.
> 
> Driving into town in the electric, running some errands, and then heading back to the burbs will usually fit within the range of the battery without needing to charge it while away from the house. The benefit is that, with no emissions, urban areas will have cleaner air while the car's limited range presents few problems when used this way.
> 
> ...


 My daughter has been driving in our diesel Cruze in a small college town. And I have been considering swapping out the diesel Cruze for a chevy volt lease return because we started having plugged dpf issues.... 

For now I have decided to deal with this by using a dpf cleaner additive regularly and checking cleaning the EGR Valve along the way. 

The Chevy volt is electric around town and gas on highway as you describe in your two car family scenario. Just hit the mode button on the highway and you are burning petrol instead of electrons....

Jeff


----------



## oreo382 (Sep 17, 2014)

Aussie said:


> There are a lot of pro's and con's about owning a diesel, so here is my take on it. I bought new in 2012 and currently have just passed 69K km. Most of my trips are short and the engine spends much of the time below normal temperature. I have a light that warns me when I need to keep driving and it has lit up 3 times in the life of the car. In 6.5 years I have had 0 mechanical issues. The main difference to the US cars is no snow in winter and no DEF tank. I didn't buy just for economy, but for that big car lazy feeling you get with a torquey engine. At 110 kph on the freeway it is doing 1750 rpm, so engine wear is low. If you buy a car like you are an accountant the chances are you don't enjoy driving, the rest of us buy something we actually want to drive.


You have gone 70k in 6 or so years,short trips,below normal temp.I have gone about the same,short trips,engine up to temp. usually and I have severely carboned up intake valves.So much so the dealer removed the head and is getting it redone.I live in Canada, pretty well below 0 C for 4 months,40 cetane diesel.I'm guessing your winter temps. are ?.I'm trying to see what the big difference is between same driving conditions and no problems compared to major problem (mine). Temperature or lower cetane fuel? You don't have DEF? Do you have EGR?


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

oreo382 said:


> You have gone 70k in 6 or so years,short trips,below normal temp.I have gone about the same,short trips,engine up to temp. usually and I have severely carboned up intake valves.So much so the dealer removed the head and is getting it redone.I live in Canada, pretty well below 0 C for 4 months,40 cetane diesel.I'm guessing your winter temps. are ?.I'm trying to see what the big difference is between same driving conditions and no problems compared to major problem (mine). Temperature or lower cetane fuel? You don't have DEF? Do you have EGR?


he has a completely different car, different engine, different emissions, different trans, different fuel


----------



## oreo382 (Sep 17, 2014)

Boraz,thanks for clarifying that for me.


----------



## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Is there a laundry list of special coverages for the 17-19's like there is on the 14/15's?


----------

