# Another reason VW sells so many TDIs



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZhGpZaLC10


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

You got to admit they do have a much better marketing team than GM.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

In a word:

_*ADVERTISING

*_GM really needs to learn this.


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## VtTD (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm sure there is a reason why they are not advertising. Whether they are trying to get some years behind the cars to prove these aren't the old school diesels, or they don't want to step up production right away for whatever reason, or both, or something else.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

GM hasn't properly advertised their cars for years. They advertise their trucks but other than Cadillac and an occasional Buick they simply don't advertise. I keep wondering how long before GM realizes they need to aggressively advertise their lower priced cars to get first time buyers in the door. Without good entry level products and advertising people will start with another manufacturer and never even look at GM. Most people don't change car manufacturers as they age and their purchasing power increases - they do change lines within a manufacturer.

This is automotive marketing 101. GM gets an "F".


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

obermd said:


> GM hasn't properly advertised their cars for years. They advertise their trucks but other than Cadillac and an occasional Buick they simply don't advertise. I keep wondering how long before GM realizes they need to aggressively advertise their lower priced cars to get first time buyers in the door. Without good entry level products and advertising people will start with another manufacturer and never even look at GM. Most people don't change car manufacturers as they age and their purchasing power increases - they do change lines within a manufacturer.
> 
> This is automotive marketing 101. GM gets an "F".


I plan on going back to school to get my Master's in Marketing. I would love to market/advertise for GM, lol! How would one go about getting a job like that though?


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

Overall Chevrolet sales were up about 10% between 2012 and 2014 while overall Volkswagen sales were down about 16%. During that period, Jetta Diesel sales were down 22% and Golf Diesel sales were down 38%. The CTD game within 256 units of outselling the Golf diesel last year and is outselling it so far this year. Not bad considering GM is so new in returning to the passenger car diesel market.

Chevrolet spends more on advertising than any other automobile brand. I believe the top five ad dollars spent last year by brand were as follows:

1. Chevrolet
2. Toyota
3. Ford
4. Nissan
5. Honda


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

VtTD said:


> I'm sure there is a reason why they are not advertising. Whether they are trying to get some years behind the cars to prove these aren't the old school diesels, or they don't want to step up production right away for whatever reason, or both, or something else.


I think this is exactly it. They know how to advertise and most of their TV ads are pretty good when you watch them. They're doing it with the Colorado right now. They just seem to pick and choose ads based on what they think will appeal to the masses. I agree though. The CTD is amazing and it deserves the attention of GMs advertising team...and some designative badging.


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## giantsnation (Oct 11, 2012)

bowtieblue said:


> Overall Chevrolet sales were up about 10% between 2012 and 2014 while overall Volkswagen sales were down about 16%. During that period, Jetta Diesel sales were down 22% and Golf Diesel sales were down 38%. The CTD game within 256 units of outselling the Golf diesel last year and is outselling it so far this year. Not bad considering GM is so new in returning to the passenger car diesel market.
> 
> Chevrolet spends more on advertising than any other automobile brand. I believe the top five ad dollars spent last year by brand were as follows:
> 
> ...


You're missing the point completely. First off - if you look at the ad dollars spent, this* means nothing if your message is not resonating with your market*. They're not marketing to the compact sedan and more specifically the diesel markets, they're focused almost entirely on the truck market (probably 75% of they're ad spend is put towards the silverado alone). 

Your other analysis is a bit skewed as you can't compare the Golf (even the diesel variant) to the Cruze as they are in two different segments. Focus on apples to apples - Jetta versus Cruze. 

Ultimately, the problem is GM's poor marketing (as well as late entry to the diesel sedan market) are going to hurt them. Marketing comes down to perceptions and when you ask people who makes a diesel compact car, they almost always say VW! Most consumers are still unaware that the Cruze has a diesel variant.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

My only thought on the Cruze Diesel is why can't it have the RS package? Why do I have to choose between the RS appearance package and the Diesel engine?


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

I was at the local Minneapolis auto show talking with a Volt product specialist from corporate Detroit offices. As our conversation drifted from the VOLT to other alternative vehicles within the GM portfolio, Cruze diesel, upcoming CNG Impala, she mentioned the Cruze Diesel has far surpassed GM's expectations for sales. 

She also mentioned that in some parts of the US, like around Tennessee there's very few Diesels in the market to even test drive they sell extremely fast. (Who knows if I buy that or not. Any CTD owners from that area?) 

Who knows if she was blowing Marketing info, but we talked Volt & Cruze technology for about 45 minutes, and she was very knowledgeable about the technological capabilities and design of both cars. 

There's one dealer here in the Minneapolis area that has what appears to be a new 2014 Diesel MSRP around 25,000 for $17,900. I think that requires a trade in of a car that's 5 years old or newer, or the price goes up a thousand dollars. It appears the dealers who stocked up this last summer in the bet they would be hot, are now trying to unload.

While other dealers don't want to take the chance. 

I agree with the marketing, and the local training of dealerships not being up to what the customers expect. The GM representative I was talking to agreed, as she personally does some dealership training. Some are great, and some she'd like to lock in a room, until they prove their understanding!


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

bowtieblue said:


> Overall Chevrolet sales were up about 10% between 2012 and 2014 while overall Volkswagen sales were down about 16%. During that period, Jetta Diesel sales were down 22% and Golf Diesel sales were down 38%. The CTD game within 256 units of outselling the Golf diesel last year and is outselling it so far this year. Not bad considering GM is so new in returning to the passenger car diesel market.
> 
> Chevrolet spends more on advertising than any other automobile brand. I believe the top five ad dollars spent last year by brand were as follows:
> 
> ...


Take a look at what Chevy is advertising. They don't advertise the Sonic at all and only occasionally the Cruze. These are their entry level and lower level mass market cars, which is where people will be looking for their first purchase.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Daisy81 said:


> My only thought on the Cruze Diesel is why can't it have the RS package? Why do I have to choose between the RS appearance package and the Diesel engine?


im not aware of a vehicle that i can option the way i want it.

dodge dart really promoted the customibility ??? of their cars...yet i couldnt option out a GT with HID and orange paint.

even the vipers you can option everything out, except if someone else has built the same car, you cant have it.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

i cant think of a product that i bought because it was advertised.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

giantsnation said:


> You're missing the point completely. First off - if you look at the ad dollars spent, this* means nothing if your message is not resonating with your market*. They're not marketing to the compact sedan and more specifically the diesel markets, they're focused almost entirely on the truck market (probably 75% of they're ad spend is put towards the silverado alone).
> 
> Your other analysis is a bit skewed as you can't compare the Golf (even the diesel variant) to the Cruze as they are in two different segments. Focus on apples to apples - Jetta versus Cruze.
> 
> Ultimately, the problem is GM's poor marketing (as well as late entry to the diesel sedan market) are going to hurt them. Marketing comes down to perceptions and when you ask people who makes a diesel compact car, they almost always say VW! Most consumers are still unaware that the Cruze has a diesel variant.


 I was more responding to comments regarding a general lack of advertising than necessarily quality of advertising. Chevrolet does a lot of advertising plus they are seeing solid sales increases. Overall Cruze sales, for example, were up 15% between 2012 and 2014 which is 50% better than the Chevrolet average.

During that same time, Volkswagen saw sales decreases and especially with their Golf and Jetta diesel models. Those diesel model sales were down notably more than their gas engine versions.

Consumers that are unaware that Chevrolet offers a diesel Cruze are very unlikely to be good candidates for one anyway. Chevrolet advertises where they feel they need to or can get the most "return" for their advertising dollars.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

boraz said:


> im not aware of a vehicle that i can option the way i want it.
> 
> dodge dart really promoted the customibility ??? of their cars...yet i couldnt option out a GT with HID and orange paint.
> 
> even the vipers you can option everything out, except if someone else has built the same car, you cant have it.


Your point is? I'm saying I will not buy a Diesel Cruze if I can't have the appearance package. I'll hop up the market line and buy a Buick Regal GS or Cadillac ATS sedan before I buy the Diesel and have it look blah.

I'm just saying the RS package could help the Diesel Cruze a lot by making it visually appealing on the outside.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

obermd said:


> Take a look at what Chevy is advertising. They don't advertise the Sonic at all and only occasionally the Cruze. These are their entry level and lower level mass market cars, which is where people will be looking for their first purchase.


They advertise where they feel it is needed and/or where the profits are i.e. where they can get the most bang for their advertising doillar. I don’t see Cruze or Sonic sales suffering due to lack of advertising as both have seen sales increase around 15% between 2012 and 2014 which is 50% better than the Chevrolet average.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

I only found out about the Cruze diesel by stumbling upon Motorweek one night on PBS. I was flipping and landed on my local PBS station and I thought that looks really neat. So I found out about the Cruze diesel by dumb luck.

GM had a good ad for the Volt, with the kid at the gas station yelling at his friend, you can't pour electricity into the electric tank. I got a good chuckle every time I saw it.

And the Corvette ad with the white Corvette shredding it up at the track was bad ass.

I considered the Volt, but the CTD was too good to turn down. 

It seems like all the Chevy ads on TV now are for the Colorado and Silverado. They do have the multicar add with the Impala, Malibu, and Cruze, claiming their the most awarded, most this most that. Pretty generic.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

I think they don't advertise diesels because they don't have too. Only die hard diesel lovers like us buy diesels. GM has a "If we build it they will come" position. We buy diesels because we love them. People who crunch the numbers will find that when diesel is 50 to 60 cents more per gallon than unleaded it makes more sense to buy a car that gets 36 MPG and just put another 60 cents worth of unleaded in it and go just as far as the diesel and save $4000 on the purchase price. I love diesels so I bought one. If you take that out of the equation it doesn't work. The split in the price of diesel vs gas is not going to change and the premium we pay for a diesel engine is not going to change. Its hard to sell to someone who doesn't care what is under the hood. Advertising isn't the answer. Price point is.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Scott M. said:


> I think they don't advertise diesels because they don't have too. Only die hard diesel lovers like us buy diesels. GM has a "If we build it they will come" position. We buy diesels because we love them. People who crunch the numbers will find that when diesel is 50 to 60 cents more per gallon than unleaded it makes more sense to buy a car that gets 36 MPG and just put another 60 cents worth of unleaded in it and go just as far as the diesel and save $4000 on the purchase price. I love diesels so I bought one. If you take that out of the equation it doesn't work. The split in the price of diesel vs gas is not going to change and the premium we pay for a diesel engine is not going to change. Its hard to sell to someone who doesn't care what is under the hood. Advertising isn't the answer. Price point is.


diesel is $0.12 cheaper than RUG here.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

Then its a no brainer for you as well as most people outside the US But in the states its a different story. Unfortunately.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I bought the CTD because it was a diesel and seemed to be built better. Great engine...tranny, bigger breaks, better suspension. Better car.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

It does ride completely different than the gasser. Much firmer feel to it.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Scott M. said:


> I think they don't advertise diesels because they don't have too. Only die hard diesel lovers like us buy diesels. GM has a "If we build it they will come" position. We buy diesels because we love them. People who crunch the numbers will find that when diesel is 50 to 60 cents more per gallon than unleaded it makes more sense to buy a car that gets 36 MPG and just put another 60 cents worth of unleaded in it and go just as far as the diesel and save $4000 on the purchase price. I love diesels so I bought one. If you take that out of the equation it doesn't work. The split in the price of diesel vs gas is not going to change and the premium we pay for a diesel engine is not going to change. Its hard to sell to someone who doesn't care what is under the hood. Advertising isn't the answer. Price point is.


we think alike


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## VtTD (Nov 5, 2013)

Agreed. I tested a VW diesel once just for the **** of it. I think it was a Jetta.. I can't remember. I feel like the Cruze has a similar firm feel to it, but drives smoother than the VW. Not saying that is a good thing or bad thing. The VW almost drives more sporty.


Scott M. said:


> It does ride completely different than the gasser. Much firmer feel to it.


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

I have a theory about the nonexistent CTD advertising by GM. Maybe they are testing the waters with all the new emissions and diesels in general, and don't want to accidentally brand themselves with another failed diesel after the 80s diesels and just bouncing back from a recession. I saw a cruze commercial that mentioned up to 42 mpg and I was yelling at the tv, why wouldn't they mention the 46 mpg diesel!!!? Seems so obvious. My profession reminded me of a once dominant Caterpillar co that went from 46% market share for class 8 semi engines in 03 to pulling the plug in 2010 due to the impending emissions system they couldn't perfect leading to them losing money on warranty issues and currently 18 class action lawsuits for breakdowns and emission lockouts. They still work on them but no longer build them.


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

GM is planning for the future, it's all about higher sales, they're not going to build a lower profit economy car just to fill a small niche for "only die hard diesel lovers"


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

You have to remember, there must be no risk of proving anyone who maintains "*Americans/Australians/non-Europeans don't buy diesel cars*" wrong, just as the 1.8l engine *must* be maintained in the line-up as it is such a perfect fit for the smaller vehicle.

And there are a lot of entrenched views in the hierarchy at GM, because all the bright folk have taken payouts and moved on, leaving only the brown-noses and time-servers and not-smart-enough-to-walk-and-chew-gum types.


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

Sometimes the good business decisions go in cycles. I bought a 2001 f150 new, worse vehicle ever, burned oil, blown head gasket at 20k, never buy ford again I said. Exactly 2 years ago my wife wanted an explorer, I gave in of course. Wow, great vehicle! Not a single issue in two years, not one loose screw or even a single check engine light.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

Scott M. said:


> Advertising isn't the answer.


Agree. I think many here are continuing to put too much emphasis on marketing/advertising. The best candidates for a CTD and those who are most open to considering a CTD typically already have a heightened awareness of what's available in the diesel/alternative fuel market compared to the average consumer. The vast majority of people that should know about the CTD do know about it and no amount of advertising is going to significantly change that. The fact that many people may be unaware that the CTD exists doesn't really matter because most wouldn't buy one anyway.

People who bought a Volkswagen Golf or Jetta TDI over the CTD may have done so for any number of reasons (e.g. available manual transmission, features, brand loyalty, dislike GM, etc.) but very few did so not knowing the CTD existed.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Black20cruze said:


> Sometimes the good business decisions go in cycles. I bought a 2001 f150 new, worse vehicle ever, burned oil, blown head gasket at 20k, never buy ford again I said. Exactly 2 years ago my wife wanted an explorer, I gave in of course. Wow, great vehicle! Not a single issue in two years, not one loose screw or even a single check engine light.


Knock on wood I'm surprised my ctd doesn't have a cel. I've never been in a gm that hasn't. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I can't agree with you guys. I've had vw tdi owners tell me if they knew the ctd existed they would've at least looked at them. They didn't however and bought a tdi because it was the only diesel car available. 

One area we do lose sales in is the transmission. I don't need/want a manual but a lot of people trying to squeeze every mpg out of their commuters want one. It becomes a make or break thing for them even though they may not have even tried an automatic but have been told automatics are garbage and kill most of the fun of driving. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

With All the drive thru hogs and texters out there, you would think automatics would be the only option


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I really like having an automatic but I like the option of any gear in a manual transmission. And the lack of problems. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

It's hard to convince someone to get the diesel if they do any city driving, kills the mileage, still good but so is the gasser. I liked the diesel because it's a win win. More power and better mileage, look how much money people spend to upgrade their gassers to v6 or a v8 and get less mileage and higher insurance rate


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

I would definitely want a manual if I lived in a hilly or mountain area, probably half the country would fall in that category. all flat and congested driving in lower Michigan so auto is good here for me at least


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Black20cruze said:


> I would definitely want a manual if I lived in a hilly or mountain area, probably half the country would fall in that category. all flat and congested driving in lower Michigan so auto is good here for me at least


why?

the diesel doesnt even downshift goin up the hills

pop it into 3rd when going down 10% hills ~65mph, no brakes needed


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## gulfcoastguy (Feb 21, 2013)

money_man said:


> I can't agree with you guys. I've had vw tdi owners tell me if they knew the ctd existed they would've at least looked at them. They didn't however and bought a tdi because it was the only diesel car available.
> 
> One area we do lose sales in is the transmission. I don't need/want a manual but a lot of people trying to squeeze every mpg out of their commuters want one. It becomes a make or break thing for them even though they may not have even tried an automatic but have been told automatics are garbage and kill most of the fun of driving.
> 
> ...


Actually when I bought my Jetta wagon in 2012 I tried both transmissions. I settled on a TDI diesel wagon with a manual transmission and a dealership less than 10 miles away. I had heard stories that Chevy was going to produce a diesel for months and would have tried it. However my niece cracked up her pickup so I needed to pass my Toyota down and it was months yet before the diesel Cruze arrived and more months before it arrived in my area. Note: manual transmission, wagon or hatch, diesel.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

money_man said:


> I can't agree with you guys. I've had vw tdi owners tell me if they knew the ctd existed they would've at least looked at them. They didn't however and bought a tdi because it was the only diesel car available.


 I don't think anyone was suggesting that there won't be a few exceptions but I am confident that these people are in the minority of diesel shoppers. Simply typing "new cars with diesel engines" or "2015 diesel cars" or something similar in a search engine will reveal what's available including the CTD. Doing a search for diesel vehicles on the EPA fuel economy website will bring up the CTD. Etc...etc....etc!!

Anyone unaware that the CTD existed wasn't likely going to buy one anyway.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Yup, everyone thinks it's a cool car until it comes time to pony up the extra money for it. Most don't. 

I think GM is smarter with the lack of advertising then we think. They know extensive advertising would be lighting money on fire. They know the money is in the upcoming colorado diesel and the cruze is a small nitche product to beta test their smaller diesels that have to now meet strict emissions standards...

Like others have stated, if you didn't know it existed car shopping you weren't going diesel anything anyways....


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

I found the CTD on the Chevy website, I did the build your own just for pricing and to see options. Last time I checked a website is a good form of advertising. Americans are just dumb. I go in the auto parts store and hear the guy in front of me picking the cheapest option given at counter. Then we complain about quality when quality can't compete with no support.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Id bet 90% or more who buy the ctd show up at a chevy dealership specifically to look at that car alone. Not many are "sold" to people.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

That's how I found it. Went in to specifically test the cruze diesel. However it would still be nice to see at least a badge on the back of the cruze. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

Get a graphic made that says diesel. Put one on each side of the rear window like a ******* truck lol


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

I was so pumped up when I got my diesel, I thought I was going to help Chevy advertise and convince people to buy one. To my surprise, most people could care less! Oh well to each his own


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Interesting commentary here. I do think that they probably wanted to release this car slowly to study it. The fact that pretty much all the repairs go through the engineering department confirms that. Maybe they want to make sure they have the emissions system right before they release the Colorado.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I really do like that explanation. I guess we'll know when the next gen comes out. This generation should prove the drivetrain so putting a badge on the 2nd gen should be no problem. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## plasticplant (Mar 26, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Id bet 90% or more who buy the ctd show up at a chevy dealership specifically to look at that car alone. Not many are "sold" to people.


No doubt. When I bought my CTD back in 2013, I knew more about the car than the salesman did. Easiest sale he's ever made in his life I'm sure.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

plasticplant said:


> No doubt. When I bought my CTD back in 2013, I knew more about the car than the salesman did. Easiest sale he's ever made in his life I'm sure.


Too right. My salesman, like most, Didn't have the first clue about the diesel much less the DEF system. Could you imagine if GM did advertise the diesel and slews of customers showed up asking questions ? What a nightmare that would be. The sales people have no clue about these cars. Most of them couldn't Google their own name.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Well, if GM did properly advertise it and the sales people were flooded by people wanting to buy it, they'd learn about it real quick. Can't blame sales people for not knowing too much about a car that sells maybe 2 per month.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

ppl that read/post on forums know more than the car salesmen

salesmen arent there cuz they know/like cars

theyre there cuz they close


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

MOTO13 said:


> Can't blame sales people for not knowing too much about a car that sells maybe 2 per month.


Salespeople also have to know not just about the particular car a customer is looking at but about every model in the lineup whether it be car, van, SUV, pickup or whatever. Sometimes even multiple makes if it’s a multi-line dealership. Buyers can be much more laser-focused on just the one or few models they're really interested in.

I don't mind ignorant, within reason, salespeople as long as they admit when they don't know something and go ask somebody, look up the information, etc. It's the salespeople that pretend to know and end up giving you a wrong or BS answer that I have a problem with.


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## Su8pack1 (Apr 17, 2014)

Everyone I encounter didn't know GM made a diesel car. I get some strange looks at the pump sometimes.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I think the vw guys heard me talking about their bad driving. Every vw I saw today was driving extremely well and didn't get cut off once. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

Scott M. said:


> plasticplant said:
> 
> 
> > No doubt. When I bought my CTD back in 2013, I knew more about the car than the salesman did. Easiest sale he's ever made in his life I'm sure.
> ...


Lol. My salesman told me wait till check engine light goes out before starting, he didn't know how to unlock doors, didn't know about no spare tire, there was couple other things I told him about the car, he said I should apply for a job there, I wanted to say, you should apply somewhere else, lol


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## Black20cruze (Mar 8, 2015)

I was at the gas station the other day, clerk was outside smoking, pump wouldn't take my card, clerk yells out, that's diesel! I said I know, I mix it with gas and it runs better, can you go turn pump on? he went in and I was holding the nozzle waiting and he wouldn't turn it on. So couple mins goes by and I just left! That's what I get for being a smartass. They didn't make a sale either


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

bowtieblue said:


> Salespeople also have to know not just about the particular car a customer is looking at but about every model in the lineup whether it be car, van, SUV, pickup or whatever. Sometimes even multiple makes if it’s a multi-line dealership. Buyers can be much more laser-focused on just the one or few models they're really interested in.
> 
> I don't mind ignorant, within reason, salespeople as long as they admit when they don't know something and go ask somebody, look up the information, etc. It's the salespeople that pretend to know and end up giving you a wrong or BS answer that I have a problem with.


I agree. But to be perfectly honest...when was the last time you actually needed a salesperson? I have bought few new vehicles over the years, and truth be told, I needed a sales person like I need a bullet in the head. They don't really sell anything.


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

How about this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-He3Gq43DA


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## Aphidman (Nov 24, 2014)

Su8pack1 said:


> Everyone I encounter didn't know GM made a diesel car. I get some strange looks at the pump sometimes.


In 4 months of CTD ownership, the only person that I have encountered who was aware of the existence of the Cruze Diesel (outside of the dealership) was a lad working at a gas station (the Shell in Balgonie Saskatchewan). He was quite the diesel nerd; he was excited to see one and told me all about his family’s diesel vehicles.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I don't get that excited for the diesel. Only reason I was drawn to it was because the automatic in pretty much every other car is junk. The fuel mileage cemented my decision. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Hoooollllleeeeeeeeeeeeee Shiiiiiii! That VW ad was awesome. Marinated camel crap!...oh Christ that was funny.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Just watched them. Those videos are awesome. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Now only if GM would make a video like what VW has done .The diesel Cruze needs some thing like this......Turn the car on ...it is on ...not its not ..yes it is ...stop playing around and tun the car on ...it is on ...lol


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Myth #4 Diesel are slow and stinky and can't perform at all ...humm I think we all know the answer to that one ..


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Here's another reason ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayzg2-xtSGs


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I had my diesel warming up in the driveway and a neighbour stopped by to say hi (first time meeting him since moving in). I couldn't even hear that his vw was a diesel over the sound of my car. I was 5 feet from his car and my diesel was 20ft from us. I would've bet money that his was a 2.5 and then he pulled away and I noticed the tdi badge. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

X


Scott M. said:


> Too right. My salesman, like most, Didn't have the first clue about the diesel much less the DEF system. Could you imagine if GM did advertise the diesel and slews of customers showed up asking questions ? What a nightmare that would be. The sales people have no clue about these cars. Most of them couldn't Google their own name.


The problem is GM dealerships pay their sales men $100 per car sold. The better sales people moved on. It's a sad situation.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

MOTO13 said:


> I agree. But to be perfectly honest...when was the last time you actually needed a salesperson? I have bought few new vehicles over the years, and truth be told, I needed a sales person like I need a bullet in the head. They don't really sell anything.


Only when you want to do a test drive.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

Daisy81 said:


> The problem is GM dealerships pay their sales men $100 per car sold.


 There is no "standard" pay for all GM dealerships. Salespeople at most dealerships, GM or otherwise, are paid on some sort of percentage commission (e.g. 30% of the selling price over invoice or some other figure) and not a flat dollar amount per car. There may also be additional bonuses/incentives for selling certain vehicles or certain numbers of vehicles per month. At some dealerships, salespeople are salaried. 

$100 per car sounds more like a guaranteed minimum that some dealers could have but the pay at GM dealerships, on average, shouldn't be any better or worse than other similar dealerships.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

The sales people at my gf Ford dealership take home between $5000-14000 bi-weekly. I know they aren't selling 50-140 cars a person because this dealership only sells 50-70 cars total all month between 5 sales people. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

bowtieblue said:


> There is no "standard" pay for all GM dealerships. Salespeople at most dealerships, GM or otherwise, are paid on some sort of percentage commission (e.g. 30% of the selling price over invoice or some other figure) and not a flat dollar amount per car. There may also be additional bonuses/incentives for selling certain vehicles or certain numbers of vehicles per month. At some dealerships, salespeople are salaried.
> 
> $100 per car sounds more like a guaranteed minimum that some dealers could have but the pay at GM dealerships, on average, shouldn't be any better or worse than other similar dealerships.


Sadly no. The dealership doesn't even make 30% on the cars. The commission is $100 regardless of if the sale is for invoice or retail for everything from a Spark to a Corvette. There is a basic draw but but the first few sales repay the draw and the rest of them he gets to keep. You don't have to pay it back if you don't have enough sales to pay back the draw but if you do that a few months in a row you are history. 

The name of the game is unit counts. Why do you think it is so easy to get a GM car for invoice or below? The sales person needs the unit count and there is no reason to spend more time to get the margin up for the dealership or risk losing a sale.

So if you see a sales person at a GM dealership and they give you a invoice or below invoice deal don't bust their chops. Be polite. They are not trying to cheat you. They are trying to make their quota of unit sales and scratch a living just like every other hard working American out there.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

money_man said:


> The sales people at my gf Ford dealership take home between $5000-14000 bi-weekly. I know they aren't selling 50-140 cars a person because this dealership only sells 50-70 cars total all month between 5 sales people.


 I can't imagine those income numbers are even close to correct as that would be about $130K/year at the LOW end and $364K/year at the high end. According to a few different sources, the average pay for a car salesperson in Canada is MUCH lower than that. CanadaDrives, for example, states that the average car salesperson makes about $36K/year selling 8 vehicles per month (about $375 per unit) and top salespeople selling over 20 vehicles per month can make about $144K-180K/year including bonuses.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

Daisy81 said:


> Sadly no. The dealership doesn't even make 30% on the cars. The commission is $100 regardless of if the sale is for invoice or retail for everything from a Spark to a Corvette.


 Again, there is NO set standard for GM dealerships or dealerships in general but $100 per sale is NOT....I repeat NOT....the standard for all sales.

The norm is a percentage of the selling price over invoice or some other figure. For example, if a car sells for $700 "over" the saleperson's take could be $210 (30% of $700) plus there is the _potential_ for additional bonuses or other incentives through the dealership itself and/or the manufacturer.

A typical salesperson selling a new Corvette for MSRP is going to make significantly more than just $100 on that sale.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

bowtieblue said:


> I can't imagine those income numbers are even close to correct as that would be about $130K/year at the LOW end and $364K/year at the high end. According to a few different sources, the average pay for a car salesperson in Canada is MUCH lower than that. CanadaDrives, for example, states that the average car salesperson makes about $36K/year selling 8 vehicles per month (about $375 per unit) and top salespeople selling over 20 vehicles per month can make about $144K-180K/year including bonuses.


My gf works in the office and see's their pay every time. One sales person has a new Porsche suv, another one has a new Audi Q5 with the tdi. All of the other ones own super nice cars as well. The F&I people in the back bring in a steady $8k every two weeks from selling warranties and undercoating and all that stuff people add when they go into the back office. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

bowtieblue said:


> Again, there is NO set standard for GM dealerships or dealerships in general but $100 per sale is NOT....I repeat NOT....the standard for all sales.
> 
> The norm is a percentage of the selling price over invoice or some other figure. For example, if a car sells for $700 "over" the saleperson's take could be $210 (30% of $700) plus there is the _potential_ for additional bonuses or other incentives through the dealership itself and/or the manufacturer.
> 
> A typical salesperson selling a new Corvette for MSRP is going to make significantly more than just $100 on that sale.


Yup. At our local ford, the f-150's are sold to the dealership at least $6k lower than msrp. That gets larger as the trim level goes up. Then you take your basically 25% (30% to the best salespeople) and it doesn't take long to rack up the cash. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

bowtieblue said:


> Again, there is NO set standard for GM dealerships or dealerships in general but $100 per sale is NOT....I repeat NOT....the standard for all sales.
> 
> The norm is a percentage of the selling price over invoice or some other figure. For example, if a car sells for $700 "over" the saleperson's take could be $210 (30% of $700) plus there is the _potential_ for additional bonuses or other incentives through the dealership itself and/or the manufacturer.
> 
> A typical salesperson selling a new Corvette for MSRP is going to make significantly more than just $100 on that sale.


Have you sold GM cars or are you talking out of your ass? I'm telling you what I have heard from my boyfriend who sold cars in Falls Church, Fairfax and Leesburg Virginia before we moved from the area (For my work). Do you honestly think that a dealership out in a area where job employment is lower is going to have a higher commission rate? If so I have a bridge I would like to sell to you. It's a deal and the tolls will give a great return on investment...

Believe me or don't but I'm telling you exactly how it is. Next time you go to a Chevy dealer go ahead and take a long hard look at the cloths and shoes they are wearing. They will look nice and respectable but they are not in expensive armani suits and driving around in $50,000 cars because they make a six figure sales commission.

Well except for maybe the used car sales person. The used cars is a money maker.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

money_man said:


> My gf works in the office and see's their pay every time.


I guarantee you there is some misunderstanding or other "disconnect" regarding what those numbers represent. They are just so far off the norm (Canada or US) they don't make sense. Sales pay at a Ford dealership for that level of volume just isn't that high.



money_man said:


> Yup. At our local ford, the f-150's are sold to the dealership at least $6k lower than msrp. That gets larger as the trim level goes up. Then you take your basically 25% (30% to the best salespeople) and it doesn't take long to rack up the cash.


 Actually, it would take a while or at least a lot of sales.

F150s aren't typically selling to customers for anything close to MSRP. Even if a dealer is able to get $1,000 over invoice, the typical salesperson's take would be 25% or $250 of that. In order to make even your low end $10K every two weeks figure from before, the salesperson would have to sell up to 43 units per month yet you're saying the ENITRE dealership only sells about 50-70 vehicles per month or an average of just 10 to 14 units per salesperson.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

Daisy81 said:


> Have you sold GM cars or are you talking out of your ass? I'm telling you what I have heard from my boyfriend who sold cars in Falls Church, Fairfax and Leesburg Virginia before we moved from the area (For my work). Do you honestly think that a dealership out in a area where job employment is lower is going to have a higher commission rate? If so I have a bridge I would like to sell to you. It's a deal and the tolls will give a great return on investment...
> 
> Believe me or don't but I'm telling you exactly how it is. Next time you go to a Chevy dealer go ahead and take a long hard look at the cloths and shoes they are wearing. They will look nice and respectable but they are not in expensive armani suits and driving around in $50,000 cars because they make a six figure sales commission.
> 
> Well except for maybe the used car sales person. The used cars is a money maker.


 Once again, not all GM dealerships pay the same so what your boyfriend may or may not have experienced is irrelevant. $100 per car Is absolutely, positively, 100% without any question NOT the standard at GM dealerships or dealerships in general. Period!!

The vast majority of dealerships, GM or otherwise, pay a commission percentage based on the selling price over invoice or some other figure. If a car sells for $1,000 "over", the typical salesman would make at least $250 or 25%. If it sells for $2,000 "over", they would $500, etc. That, plus there's also the _potential_ for other incentives/bonuses.

Sure, at a typical dealership selling a car at invoice may only result in a $100 _minimum_ commission but selling a Corvette for MSRP will result in a much higher commission. Very, very few dealerships sell at a flat per sale figure and fewer still at only $100.

I don't disagree that average car salespeople don't make a lot of money but they absolutely typically make more than just $100 per car.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

money_man said:


> I had my diesel warming up in the driveway and a neighbour stopped by to say hi (first time meeting him since moving in). I couldn't even hear that his vw was a diesel over the sound of my car. I was 5 feet from his car and my diesel was 20ft from us. I would've bet money that his was a 2.5 and then he pulled away and I noticed the tdi badge.
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


I think the VW diesels are too quiet. But I suppose that's what most people like and one of the reasons why they sell so well.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

bowtieblue said:


> I guarantee you there is some misunderstanding or other "disconnect" regarding what those numbers represent. They are just so far off the norm (Canada or US) they don't make sense. Sales pay at a Ford dealership for that level of volume just isn't that high.
> 
> Actually, it would take a while or at least a lot of sales.
> 
> F150s aren't typically selling to customers for anything close to MSRP. Even if a dealer is able to get $1,000 over invoice, the typical salesperson's take would be 25% or $250 of that. In order to make even your low end $10K every two weeks figure from before, the salesperson would have to sell up to 43 units per month yet you're saying the ENITRE dealership only sells about 50-70 vehicles per month or an average of just 10 to 14 units per salesperson.


Maybe in the states they aren't selling at msrp. Come up here and we (Atlantic Canadians) rarely bicker with a price. The price is the price and that is that. Our salesmen can up sell other things aswell. It's not purely the car and out the door they go. I'm telling you, if it wasn't for some months having horrible sales and thus having large swings in pay I would probably quit my job and go sell them. They make way better money than I ever would've dreamed of. 

The typical F&I manager in the auto group she works for makes $160k a year and her general manager makes $350k a year which is horrible because he's an idiot. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

They have some months were they sell 140 vehicles a month. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Canadian Cruzer (Oct 27, 2014)

bowtieblue said:


> Once again, not all GM dealerships pay the same so what your boyfriend may or may not have experienced is irrelevant. $100 per car Is absolutely, positively, 100% without any question NOT the standard at GM dealerships or dealerships in general. Period!!
> 
> The vast majority of dealerships, GM or otherwise, pay a commission percentage based on the selling price over invoice or some other figure. If a car sells for $1,000 "over", the typical salesman would make at least $250 or 25%. If it sells for $2,000 "over", they would $500, etc. That, plus there's also the _potential_ for other incentives/bonuses.
> 
> ...


I just retired from selling at a GM store and your analogy is pretty much spot on. Every dealership is different but where I was if you weren't making minimum 60-70k you were gone!


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## Canadian Cruzer (Oct 27, 2014)

Hardly ever at a GM store does a car or truck sell for MSRP. Maybe once in a blue moon!!!


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Ok guys, just talked to the gf and I may have been slightly confused. The F&I managers make $7k-$14k bi weekly. The average sales guy there only makes about $1300-$1500 take home bi-weekly. They do have 2 sales people who are the ones who own the audi and the Porsche and they consistently get better sales than everyone and they take home about $2000-$2500 bi-weekly. 


Sent from the sexy electrician


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

money_man said:


> Ok guys, just talked to the gf and I may have been slightly confused. The F&I managers make $7k-$14k bi weekly. The average sales guy there only makes about $1300-$1500 take home bi-weekly. They do have 2 sales people who are the ones who own the audi and the Porsche and they consistently get better sales than everyone and they take home about $2000-$2500 bi-weekly.
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


Those are the long timers that the manager feeds the leads to because he knows they can handle them.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Canadian Cruzer said:


> I just retired from selling at a GM store and your analogy is pretty much spot on. Every dealership is different but where I was if you weren't making minimum 60-70k you were gone!


Maybe I'm out of touch but $60,000 and even $70,000 is nothing. You're also forgetting that you don't get to this point until you have built your clientel up and have repeat customers. You're also forgetting that some months are slower then others so it isn't the same as having a $70,000 salary. You have to plan for slow times.

With town houses in Virginia costing in the mid two hundred thousand range for a bad area of town and the price of everything being so high that is enough money for a kid with no responsibilities like kids to get by. Lets not forget that they are working for this pay. Forget Friday night off. Forget the weekend. That is game day. You're lucky if you get two days off in a row and you still might have to go in for the sales meeting.

$1500 a pay period is not a wine and cheese with steak budget. It's a fast food budget once you factor in a car payment, house payment utilities, insurance and basic needs.

Lets just remember that they are hard working people and try to treat them a little better.


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## bowtieblue (May 26, 2014)

money_man said:


> Ok guys, just talked to the gf and I may have been slightly confused.
> 
> The average sales guy there only makes about $1300-$1500 take home bi-weekly.


 Thought so. Around $1300 to $1500 bi-weekly take home makes a lot more sense. Your other figures were just way too high.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Daisy81 said:


> Maybe I'm out of touch but $60,000 and even $70,000 is nothing. You're also forgetting that you don't get to this point until you have built your clientel up and have repeat customers. You're also forgetting that some months are slower then others so it isn't the same as having a $70,000 salary. You have to plan for slow times.
> 
> With town houses in Virginia costing in the mid two hundred thousand range for a bad area of town and the price of everything being so high that is enough money for a kid with no responsibilities like kids to get by. Lets not forget that they are working for this pay. Forget Friday night off. Forget the weekend. That is game day. You're lucky if you get two days off in a row and you still might have to go in for the sales meeting.
> 
> ...


I recently test drove a car and had a followup conversation with the sales guy. He made a point to thank me for being so nice to him. I thought that was interesting. I treated him like I treat pretty much everybody else.


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## Canadian Cruzer (Oct 27, 2014)

Daisy81 said:


> Maybe I'm out of touch but $60,000 and even $70,000 is nothing. You're also forgetting that you don't get to this point until you have built your clientel up and have repeat customers. You're also forgetting that some months are slower then others so it isn't the same as having a $70,000 salary. You have to plan for slow times.
> 
> With town houses in Virginia costing in the mid two hundred thousand range for a bad area of town and the price of everything being so high that is enough money for a kid with no responsibilities like kids to get by. Lets not forget that they are working for this pay. Forget Friday night off. Forget the weekend. That is game day. You're lucky if you get two days off in a row and you still might have to go in for the sales meeting.
> 
> ...


They ARE hard working people and they work a lot of hours and do deserve respect.
I am not forgetting the things you mention, and I did say 60-70k MINIMUM. I made 100k my first year at the store.


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Canadian Cruzer said:


> They ARE hard working people and they work a lot of hours and do deserve respect.
> I am not forgetting the things you mention, and I did say 60-70k MINIMUM. I made 100k my first year at the store.


That you did. We are both right. Starting out though you'll make closer to 38 or 40 thousand the first year because you are not going to be fed a lot of leads in the beginning and you have no repeat business yet. What you have is ups and if you are lucky some internet leads that are not three hours old (i.e. dead and a waste of time). 

The reason I chimed in at the beginning was when someone commented on useless sales people and sooner needing a bullet in the head.

Without sales I wouldn't have a job. They sell things for me to do and get me paid. Sometimes the sales people even slide me a little something on the side that our company doesn't officially handle that I can take if I want for me.


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## Aphidman (Nov 24, 2014)

GotDiesel? said:


> Now only if GM would make a video like what VW has done .The diesel Cruze needs some thing like this......Turn the car on ...it is on ...not its not ..yes it is ...stop playing around and turn the car on ...it is on ...lol


Hmm, I don’t know. I like my CTD, and I like the sound it makes, but my oldest daughter affectionately calls it “The Tractor.” From outside, the Cruze Diesel is a bit noisier than its VW cousin. I haven’t been inside a TDI, so I don’t know how they compare for the drivers and passengers.

GM doesn’t seem interested in marketing the diesel Cruze at all. But we’ve been over that point many times before.


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