# DEF gauge.



## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Would it have killed Chevy to put a DEF gauge in the car? I mean, if you need it to operate the car (and you do), and DEF gets used up daily (and it is), you would think logic would dictate a gauge be present. But no...they decide to have a warning light or other mickey mouse arrangement. Just unbelievable. Also, the fact that in order to put fog lights on this car requires removal of the front fascia has to be one of the all time stupidest things I have ever heard. **** near every car on the road has these lights, yet GM decides to make it a giant PIA to install them. Then after you install them...I heard you have to have the system re-flashed by the dealer to even make them operate?


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

You could have asked the dealer to install them and that gets rid of that headache. Also the def lasts about 10k miles so if you aren't close to that then don't worry, if you are then you should worry


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## Dragonsys (May 27, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> Then after you install them...I heard you have to have the system re-flashed by the dealer to even make them operate?


Only if you want to use the OE controls.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> Would it have killed Chevy to put a DEF gauge in the car? I mean, if you need it to operate the car (and you do), and DEF gets used up daily (and it is), you would think logic would dictate a gauge be present. But no...they decide to have a warning light or other mickey mouse arrangement. Just unbelievable. Also, the fact that in order to put fog lights on this car requires removal of the front fascia has to be one of the all time stupidest things I have ever heard. **** near every car on the road has these lights, yet GM decides to make it a giant PIA to install them. Then after you install them...I heard you have to have the system re-flashed by the dealer to even make them operate?


I believe it gives you ample warning when you are getting low. I think you get a 1000 mile warning that pops up.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

IDK, on the DIC it should show a % of the DEF left. It's not that difficult. I mean there's obviously a sending unit in there already, so why not hook it up the the DIC?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> IDK, on the DIC it should show a % of the DEF left. It's not that difficult. I mean there's obviously a sending unit in there already, so why not hook it up the the DIC?


when it gets to 35% left it shows that and counts it down

the gauge or sensor does foul up in sub zero temps, example...say it reads 20%, you add a couple gallons, the 20% reading wont change for days until you get warmer temps 

i wouldve liked the 35% display to force itself to show, like the ice warning...but its not necessary


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

MOTO13 said:


> IDK, on the DIC it should show a % of the DEF left. It's not that difficult. I mean there's obviously a sending unit in there already, so why not hook it up the the DIC?


I think it does show a percentage at 30 or 35% when it gets that low. I just filled mine for the first time at 16000 ks but it still said it was ok.
I could not get the full 2.5 gallon jug in it. I will think about it again at 32000.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Im at 10,500 miles and its at 30% now.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

Well, it just seems like it would have been a good idea to have had a gauge of some type showing amount of DEF left at all times. They show % of oil life left...something that doesn't really get used up, just changed. But DEF, which the car uses daily and needs to properly operate, no real gauge. Just seems cookoo. OK...rant over. Thank you for your interest.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

after a couple oil changes youll realize the DEF doesnt require the attention you think it does right now this early in your ownership.


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## msav (Apr 24, 2014)

The dealer really needs to flash the system to use the fog lamps. The kit comes with a new switch that has a push button in the middle for the fogs. I don't see where the programming would come in. It seems that the kit also comes with a harness, does this harness need to be ran all the way to the fog lights, or is this a intermediary harness that goes somewhere else?

I contemplated ordering the fog light kit. But if it needs programming That I will have to pay the dealer to do anyways then I may as well have the dealer do the whole job. 

Confirmation and not speculation needed Please.


I don't mind not having the DEF gauge all the time. as long as it gives me enough notice. and if it gives me a gauge at or around 30% That is plenty of notice for me. 

There is already way too much stuff for me to obsess about on the DIC. So not having the DEF Gauge is a good thing to me. I am occupied enough just trying to maximize my MPG and switching between AVG MPG and current MPG is enough for me to obsess about.


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## Jorday (Jul 30, 2013)

Agreed. I added some to my car around 7k miles. It was still over half full at that time. I've since driven 13k miles and the DEF level is still reading "OK" at this time. It really goes a long time in a single fill.


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## karter59 (Feb 14, 2014)

Looking at your issues, I'll try and give you explanations for all of your concerns.
Yes, it is best to remove the facia to install the fog lamps. This is not a new item for GM cars or any of the other manufactures' cars. Because the facia wraps down and under the car to aid aero and cooling, it prevents easy access to the fron of the facia. Ask any mechanic to change a headlight in any new car and they will tell you the front facia has to come off. Not a nice job removing the facia but that's the price for styling.
The BCM only has to be updated if it was built before March 25, 2013. The headlight wiring loom does not have a direct line to the underhood fuse box (UBEC), but instead sends a signal to the BCM to control the foglights. This allows the BCM to turn off the foglights when high beams are turned on. This is a requirement in most states and provinces.
As for the DEF display, that is a problem with all DEF systems. The DEF solution is very corrosive and would destroy a conventional float sender in days. There are only 3 types of senders in DEF system production and they all have problems of one sort or another. The Bosch system in our Cruze uses a two contact pin system. When the tank is full, two contacts at the top of the tank will conduct current when covered in DEF fluid. The next set of contacts is at the 35% fill and the last set is at 10% fill. The ECU keeps a running tab on DEF injected and uses the level contacts to verify that rate of consumtion. Plenty of notice is given to the driver before the car will go into limp mode. You would have to repeatedly keep driving the car with the DEF reading empty before the car goes into limp mode.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

karter59 said:


> Looking at your issues, I'll try and give you explanations for all of your concerns.
> Yes, it is best to remove the facia to install the fog lamps. This is not a new item for GM cars or any of the other manufactures' cars. Because the facia wraps down and under the car to aid aero and cooling, it prevents easy access to the fron of the facia. Ask any mechanic to change a headlight in any new car and they will tell you the front facia has to come off. Not a nice job removing the facia but that's the price for styling.
> The BCM only has to be updated if it was built before March 25, 2013. The headlight wiring loom does not have a direct line to the underhood fuse box (UBEC), but instead sends a signal to the BCM to control the foglights. This allows the BCM to turn off the foglights when high beams are turned on. This is a requirement in most states and provinces.
> As for the DEF display, that is a problem with all DEF systems. The DEF solution is very corrosive and would destroy a conventional float sender in days. There are only 3 types of senders in DEF system production and they all have problems of one sort or another. The Bosch system in our Cruze uses a two contact pin system. When the tank is full, two contacts at the top of the tank will conduct current when covered in DEF fluid. The next set of contacts is at the 35% fill and the last set is at 10% fill. The ECU keeps a running tab on DEF injected and uses the level contacts to verify that rate of consumtion. Plenty of notice is given to the driver before the car will go into limp mode. You would have to repeatedly keep driving the car with the DEF reading empty before the car goes into limp mode.


Very interesting!


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## Vetterin (Mar 27, 2011)

There are a few of us who have installed the OEM fogs without taking off the ficia and it actually wasn't an "impossible" task.


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## karter59 (Feb 14, 2014)

That's how I did mine as well but if it had been warmer ambient temperatures I would have taken the facia off. Its actually pretty easy to remove, if the facia is compliant enough and doesn't break at the lock tabs between the wheel well opening and the headlight area.


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