# first day of Cruze diesel ownership, first CEL



## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

Bought a used '14 cruze TD yesterday. 27,xxx miles. Good shape. Drove it about 100 miles yesterday. Fired it up today and CEL is on. Called dealership to report issue (75 miles to that dealership). Took to local dealership. NOX#2 sensor needs to be replaced. Awesome. Glad it's covered under B2B warranty.

Have now read about a fuel trim software update and MULTIPLE sensor issues. Hope this wasn't a bad move.


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## LiveTrash (May 24, 2015)

pavulon said:


> Bought a used '14 cruze TD yesterday. 27,xxx miles. Good shape. Drove it about 100 miles yesterday. Fired it up today and CEL is on. Called dealership to report issue (75 miles to that dealership). Took to local dealership. NOX#2 sensor needs to be replaced. Awesome. Glad it's covered under B2B warranty.
> 
> Have now read about a fuel trim software update and MULTIPLE sensor issues. Hope this wasn't a bad move.


There's been a few users on here that have had sensors replaced. I believe the one you mentioned is part of a recall and the new sensor is better equipped to handle its environment and the reprogram helps too. Once the sensor(s) is/are replaced then there shouldn't be any future problems from them. I personally haven't had any issues yet with mine. I'm at 32,000km.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

Thanks. How many/which other recalled sensors are we talking about?


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## mr overkill (Dec 1, 2013)

Let me know what the ecm update number is or please post the repair invoice it could help some of us


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

mr overkill said:


> Let me know what the ecm update number is or please post the repair invoice it could help some of us


Will do. 

Dealership that sold me the car is offering to take it back. They'd had it since March. Strongly considering accepting their kind offer.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

If you are not prepared to have the occasional emissions system issue, I would let them take it back. You may not have any more issues with the car, but if you want to guarantee no more issues, let them have it.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Don't take it back because of a small issue that is being covered under warranty. Let them fix it and drive the **** out of it. Mine had that same sensor replaced and yeah it is aggravating but you'll be glad you kept it when you're getting 55mpg on the highway.

Worst case scenario. It goes out of warranty and you have another emissions system problem. Just get the emissions delete setup and do away with the entire emissions system and any of the headaches that come with it.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pavulon said:


> Have now read about a fuel trim software update and MULTIPLE sensor issues. Hope this wasn't a bad move.


you bought a used car, THEN did some reading?

nice.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

umm, no. Bought a car then started reading about the specific problem I now have with the car I just bought.



boraz said:


> you bought a used car, THEN did some reading?
> 
> nice.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Most of us love our diesels. My only issue is its not a half ton truck.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

That's good. It should be that way!! I hope to feel that way too.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

pavulon said:


> That's good. It should be that way!! I hope to feel that way too.


what type of driving do you do ,if all city go get a gasser, all highway keep it. exh temp sensor #2 is the only problem with mine in over 3 years an 68,000 Ks


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

It is intended to be my daily commuter. 40 miles each way, 5 days per week. 90% of that is 2 lane highway. I agree with your assessment of gas vs diesel and is the reason I sought out a TD. I have an Outback with winter tires for snow days on un- or partially plowed roads (I'll leave at about 0530) and would anticipate mounting winter tires to the Cruze as well.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pavulon said:


> Will do.
> 
> Dealership that sold me the car is offering to take it back. They'd had it since March. Strongly considering accepting their kind offer.


I have 183K miles on my diesel Cruze and it's been amazingly reliable. The only sensor I needed to have replaced is EGT#3. Some do have more issues than others, but once they are sorted out, they are good cars. There are several people on the board with high miles and few problems. That being said, look at the complete service history of yours. If it has a history of issues, you may want to find a better one. If it's just that one issue, chances are you will have minimal trouble.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> It goes out of warranty and you have another emissions system problem. Just get the emissions delete setup and do away with the entire emissions system and any of the headaches that come with it.


I don't think this is good advise. A delete costs minimum $1500, and causes the car to pollute more. I have total out of pocket under $500 in emissions related issues in 183K miles on mine. I would have to drive 600K+ miles to MAYBE get payback for a delete.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> I don't think this is good advise. A delete costs minimum $1500, and causes the car to pollute more. I have total out of pocket under $500 in emissions related issues in 183K miles on mine. I would have to drive 600K+ miles to MAYBE get payback for a delete.


thats crazy math.

there's no way you can objectively base the cost of future repairs on previous repairs, let alone at the same cpm


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> thats crazy math.
> 
> there's no way you can objectively base the cost of future repairs on previous repairs, let alone at the same cpm


Maybe so. But it's all I have to go on. Either way it's a crap shoot. Pay me now or pay me later? Who knows?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> I don't think this is good advise. A delete costs minimum $1500, and causes the car to pollute more. I have total out of pocket under $500 in emissions related issues in 183K miles on mine. I would have to drive 600K+ miles to MAYBE get payback for a delete.


If I keep my CTD for 183k miles and only spend a few hundred on emissions I will be happy. If I have chronic problems and it gets expensive, as much as I don't like it I may consider the delete. The engine and transmission seem super reliable, the emissions when working properly seem good, when not it sounds like it can be a nightmare, the idea of limiting my speed to limp mode just isn't very appealing to be completely honest.

it would be possible to spend a lot of emission sensors and still go into limp mode after.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> If I keep my CTD for 183k miles and only spend a few hundred on emissions I will be happy. If I have chronic problems and it gets expensive, as much as I don't like it I may consider the delete. The engine and transmission seem super reliable, the emissions when working properly seem good, when not it sounds like it can be a nightmare, the idea of limiting my speed to limp mode just isn't very appealing to be completely honest.
> 
> it would be possible to spend a lot of emission sensors and still go into limp mode after.


We've all seen how GM has been changing part numbers for sensors and other components of our emissions package. So I think that stands as evidence that they are working to address some of the issues that have been cropping up for some owners. Plus at least some members received an advance recall notice indicating that emissions parts and software are in development. 

What I'm concluding on that is that we've not been abandoned by GM and hopefully the quirks of the emissions package will be smoothed out.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Tomko said:


> We've all seen how GM has been changing part numbers for sensors and other components of our emissions package. So I think that stands as evidence that they are working to address some of the issues that have been cropping up for some owners. Plus at least some members received an advance recall notice indicating that emissions parts and software are in development.
> 
> What I'm concluding on that is that we've not been abandoned by GM and hopefully the quirks of the emissions package will be smoothed out.


I hope you are correct. Nothing I can do about it but take care of my car which I always do anyways. My main disappointment with GM is they are not covering this complicated system under warranty long enough, that just seems wrong.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Tomko said:


> We've all seen how GM has been changing part numbers for sensors and other components of our emissions package. So I think that stands as evidence that they are working to address some of the issues that have been cropping up for some owners. Plus at least some members received an advance recall notice indicating that emissions parts and software are in development.
> 
> What I'm concluding on that is that we've not been abandoned by GM and hopefully the quirks of the emissions package will be smoothed out.


parts numbers changed for fuel filters and oil as well

maybe for internal reasons vs updating actual parts?


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I received the recall notice of a software update and nox sensor 1 replacement. Nothing has come of it yet.

That was a year ago


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I hope you are correct. Nothing I can do about it but take care of my car which I always do anyways. My main disappointment with GM is they are not covering this complicated system under warranty long enough, that just seems wrong.


We've had that discussion before. 

GM offered all of us an extended warranty (GMPP) for purchase. Some declined, not wishing to buy the extended warranty but are now paying for emissions repairs. Others accepted and bought the extended warranty but have been covered for these repairs. Either way the cost to owners has probably balanced out. It's just a matter of individual risk management and pay me now or pay me later. 

IIRC your position has been that GM should warranty these emissions parts and labor free of all charge, as we have been more or less beta testing. Maybe once the recall has been implemented they will indeed do that and reimburse owners for specific repairs.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

money_man said:


> I received the recall notice of a software update and nox sensor 1 replacement. Nothing has come of it yet.
> 
> That was a year ago


Really: a year ago? Like August 2015???

I received my recall letter on January 23, 2016. Seven months ago. 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-gen1-diesel-general-discussion/152345-emission-recall.html


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Tomko said:


> We've all seen how GM has been changing part numbers for sensors and other components of our emissions package. So I think that stands as evidence that they are working to address some of the issues that have been cropping up for some owners. Plus at least some members received an advance recall notice indicating that emissions parts and software are in development.
> 
> What I'm concluding on that is that we've not been abandoned by GM and hopefully the quirks of the emissions package will be smoothed out.


Yes, it's constant progress. Working as an engineer at an auto manufacturer myself, we're always changing things after production starts. Generally for the better.

Since this is really their first foray into the US diesel market since their '80s diesel car disasters, it's definitely a learning game right now. When something fails in the field (since testing can only show so much), they'll figure out why it did, and generally change a part or a calibration to fix that.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Tomko said:


> Really: a year ago? Like August 2015???
> 
> I received my recall letter on January 23, 2016. Seven months ago.
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-gen1-diesel-general-discussion/152345-emission-recall.html


This recall showed up in some of our Chevrolet Owners Center pages here in the US, then it dropped out. On my car it it showed up in GM's Vehicle Information System as Incomplete- Remedy Not Yet Available. It dropped out of VIS as well not long after it dropped out of the owners center. I have no idea if this recall will ever be performed or if it will be retracted.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Tomko said:


> Really: a year ago? Like August 2015???
> 
> I received my recall letter on January 23, 2016. Seven months ago.
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-gen1-diesel-general-discussion/152345-emission-recall.html


Sometimes it just feels that long ago. Was probably closer to january


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

CruzeDan said:


> This recall showed up in some of our Chevrolet Owners Center pages here in the US, then it dropped out. On my car it it showed up in GM's Vehicle Information System as Incomplete- Remedy Not Yet Available. It dropped out of VIS as well not long after it dropped out of the owners center. I have no idea if this recall will ever be performed or if it will be retracted.


So I guess it's a good thing I kept the notice in the mail.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

Dealer replaced position 2 NOx sensor and cleared codes "P11D7 and P11DC". Drove it 70 miles without incident. Need to go another 150 tomorrow so we'll see. 

Set a new 25 mile "best score" for the car on Monday 58.8mpg. The car seems to continually calculate MPG in running 25 mile segments. Is that an accurate observation? My subaru resets it's calculation with each trip odometer reset--which is handy in that an entire tank of fuel MPG can be assessed in that way.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

boraz said:


> you bought a used car, THEN did some reading?
> 
> nice.



I bought a new car and did some reading before and after. I've had the same issues as many. Can't blame the guy for buying used as many do. He just got a cel at all the wrong time and way too soon. I'd take it back because this is a portent of things to come. Sorry, but emissions issues just ruin the flavor of what could have been a great car. If GM really cared, they'd just recall all the CTDs and replace all the sensors at issue and fix the DEF tank issues.

rant over and thankfully I'm still under warranty!!!


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

pavulon said:


> Dealer replaced position 2 NOx sensor and cleared codes "P11D7 and P11DC". Drove it 70 miles without incident. Need to go another 150 tomorrow so we'll see.
> 
> Set a new 25 mile "best score" for the car on Monday 58.8mpg. The car seems to continually calculate MPG in running 25 mile segments. Is that an accurate observation? My subaru resets it's calculation with each trip odometer reset--which is handy in that an entire tank of fuel MPG can be assessed in that way.



You up can also set it for 50 miles, that's how I roll......


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > It goes out of warranty and you have another emissions system problem. Just get the emissions delete setup and do away with the entire emissions system and any of the headaches that come with it.
> ...


Your situation is not typical of everyone's. When it comes to this emissions setup, you can rack up 1500 dollars worth of repairs very fast when you're out of warranty, especially when some of these sensors run 400-500 dollars each. 

I'm not telling you to delete your car. You can do whatever you want. I'm saying that if the OP (or anyone else's car) goes out of warranty and you're staring down the barrel of a $1000+ repair bill, there is an option out there for not much more than that, that will resolve the issue. Permanently. And also send your hp, torque, mileage, and reliability through the roof at the same time.

And personally I'm not worried about the pollution aspect of it. There are much worse pollution sources out there than some deleted 4 banger diesels. I'm saying that if the emissions system begins to remove money from my pocket, I will be removing it from my car. I personally would love the absence of regens and the added mileage that deleting it provides.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> Your situation is not typical of everyone's. When it comes to this emissions setup, you can rack up 1500 dollars worth of repairs very fast when you're out of warranty, especially when some of these sensors run 400-500 dollars each.
> 
> I'm not telling you to delete your car. You can do whatever you want. I'm saying that if the OP (or anyone else's car) goes out of warranty and you're staring down the barrel of a $1000+ repair bill, there is an option out there for not much more than that, that will resolve the issue. Permanently. And also send your hp, torque, mileage, and reliability through the roof at the same time.
> 
> And personally I'm not worried about the pollution aspect of it. There are much worse pollution sources out there than some deleted 4 banger diesels. I'm saying that if the emissions system begins to remove money from my pocket, I will be removing it from my car. I personally would love the absence of regens and the added mileage that deleting it provides.


X2, @*diesel* car is exception , not the rule. Or he just got terribly lucky. Mazeltov!!!

drove a deleted Ford pick up today. Not only was it exceptionally strong with the aftermarket tuner, it had no soot , no CELs and not a single issue since the delete. Fuel mileage increased over 10% as well as performance. The emissions were near identical to ours except for DEF tank heater. So, what's not to love ?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Well, I suppose I don't have too much room to talk since I also drive a 1984 Ford Tempo diesel. It came fully deleted from the factory.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> Well, I suppose I don't have too much room to talk since I also drive a 1984 Ford Tempo diesel. It came fully deleted from the factory.


Plus an old Mercedes Diesel, I had a 95 Mercedes Diesel with 255k miles with no emissions stuff, bypassed the EGR valve as I recall and honestly it didn't smoke hardly at all, I never noticed it and that was a larger engine than we have in the CTD. I realize some of the pollution is not black smoke.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

pavulon said:


> Dealer replaced position 2 NOx sensor and cleared codes "P11D7 and P11DC". Drove it 70 miles without incident. Need to go another 150 tomorrow so we'll see.
> 
> Set a new 25 mile "best score" for the car on Monday 58.8mpg. The car seems to continually calculate MPG in running 25 mile segments. Is that an accurate observation? My subaru resets it's calculation with each trip odometer reset--which is handy in that an entire tank of fuel MPG can be assessed in that way.


In the ECO mode on the DIC it can be set for 25-, 50- or 500-miles for the current average and best score... Then separately in the TRIP mode on the DIC (there are Trip 1 and Trip 2 measurements available) it gives average for that trip event. I personally reset them both when we bought the car and run Trip 2 for total mileage info and reset Trip 1 with each tank... If you don't have an owners manual play with the various functions of the DIC as it can do quite a lot as you toggle through the modes and settings...


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

Thanks. I need to take the time to look at the OM and figure out what's what. No CEL yesterday so that's a plus.

As an aside, had to laugh at the note attached to the repair bill insisting the dealership receive only "completely satisfied" scores on the inevitable on-line satisfaction survey. Having been there myself, it sucks to have to beg for (now) meaningless scores like that.



Chris Tobin said:


> In the ECO mode on the DIC it can be set for 25-, 50- or 500-miles for the current average and best score... Then separately in the TRIP mode on the DIC (there are Trip 1 and Trip 2 measurements available) it gives average for that trip event. I personally reset them both when we bought the car and run Trip 2 for total mileage info and reset Trip 1 with each tank... If you don't have an owners manual play with the various functions of the DIC as it can do quite a lot as you toggle through the modes and settings...


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

pavulon said:


> Thanks. I need to take the time to look at the OM and figure out what's what. No CEL yesterday so that's a plus.
> 
> As an aside, had to laugh at the note attached to the repair bill insisting the dealership receive only "completely satisfied" scores on the inevitable on-line satisfaction survey. Having been there myself, it sucks to have to beg for (now) meaningless scores like that.


They get bonu$ed on those scores, that's why they do that.


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## pavulon (Aug 23, 2016)

DslGate said:


> They get bonu$ed on those scores, that's why they do that.


Sure. Healthcare is the same thing but worse. It's always about money. Yet it's still insulting to be told how to fill out a survey. Just do an honest and great job and let the survey (and repeat business) take care of itself. YMMV.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pavulon said:


> Thanks. I need to take the time to look at the OM and figure out what's what. No CEL yesterday so that's a plus.
> 
> As an aside, had to laugh at the note attached to the repair bill insisting the dealership receive only "completely satisfied" scores on the inevitable on-line satisfaction survey. Having been there myself, it sucks to have to beg for (now) meaningless scores like that.


I've used that as leverage before. Not at a Chevy dealer, because I really like my Chevy dealer, but at another place that was awful. It'a amazing the power you have when you hold the customer satisfaction scores over their head. I only did that with a truly awful experience and only once though. Usually if they are even remotely passable, I give them top marks. it keeps the customer-business relationship going.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> Usually if they are even remotely passable, I give them top marks. it keeps the customer-business relationship going.


thats why online reviews are worthless, ppl dont post the truth


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> I've used that as leverage before. Not at a Chevy dealer, because I really like my Chevy dealer, but at another place that was awful. It'a amazing the power you have when you hold the customer satisfaction scores over their head. I only did that with a truly awful experience and only once though. Usually if they are even remotely passable, I give them top marks. it keeps the customer-business relationship going.


I've heard of people getting a call from the dealer after leaving them a bad score (deservedly - their experience was complete and utter garbage), and then getting laid into about it. Maybe don't be assholes then, mmmkay?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> thats why online reviews are worthless, ppl dont post the truth


Most online reviews are either 1 star or 5 stars. Seems like the people who are really happy or really pissed are the vocal ones. Kind of like the diesel owners on this forum.


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