# 2013 Knock Sensor location



## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Hey folks,

I just joined the forum to try and get help for my daughter. Her 2013 needs a new knock sensor and the shop charges to replace this are ridiculous. I'd like to help her by doing it myself. Can someone tell me how difficult it is to get to the sensor to replace it? Is it in the front or back? Can it be done from the top or do I need to lift the front to get to it?

Thanks for any help ya'll can give me.

Chris


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Welcome Aboard!:welcome:

This post kinda describes the location: P0324 Knock Sensor

Not much else out there. Maybe @Robby can help.

This is for a 2.2 ECOTech, but it might help:


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

You might change your mind on the ridiculous labor charge halfway through the process.
Not impossible, but not 'convenient'.

I assume you have the new one on hand to compare.......it is located on the rear or firewall side of the block on the starter side (as opposed to the alternator side)......so, more to the left, about the bottom of the water jackets.
Single bolt into a dry hole......no gaskets involved.
I'm fairly confident this would best be performed from underneath the car.

Rob


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Thanks Blasirl and Rob. I've never put a wrench on this car, but I have some decent knowledge from other OBDII vehicles about 10-15 years older. I had a brief look at it last night and given the location, from the top seems unlikely. It isn't visible. Once I have the car up, as long as I can get my hand in there to disconnect it and maneuver, I likely have the tools to get to the bolt. That said, I am now questioning the diagnosis. The Chevy dealership was going to replace the knock sensor based on a code they pulled so I ordered a replacement I'll Thursday. However, I have a cheap OBD reader that pairs with my iPhone and I didn't get that code. I got a too lean code.

My observation was as it idled at what seemed like around 800 rpm, RPM would slowly swing slower, the engine would try to die, and the PCM would add timing to try and maintain idle. I'd then hear knocking as it was advanced too far and then it would idle back up and start the same cycle again. So my question is, what causes it to set the knock sensor code? If the knock sensor is going off too much does that cause it? If so, that may be a secondary effect.

Too lean could mean a bad O2. I need to get my other OBD tool on it to see how the O2 is swinging to see if it is really bad. Perhaps both need replacement but the combo makes me wonder.

Any ideas about what is required to set the knock sensor code? 

Thanks

Chris


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

What code (the first one only) is being set?

You have me thinking this may be a failed burst valve in the cam cover.......in which case the knock sensor code is resultant and is not relevant.

Rob


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

I believe it was a P1260. Didn't write it down and and figured I'd dig in more when I got the car back this weekend. 

She moved back to Texas from CA about 2 years ago and one data point she did share with me last night is that the car started running poorly after a bad tank of gas before she moved. It seems to be firing well, so the injectors don't behave like their gummed up. But with 65K miles and bad gas, I can see how an O2 could be fouled.

I've never dealt with a "burst valve". What does that do?


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Burnt probably - typo


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> Burnt probably - typo


I sure hope not.  That is the last thing she needs to worry about. First things first though... I need to check out that O2 to see if it is still alive.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Burst valve is a device that controls extreme crankcase pressure moments that can develop in a turbocharged engine.

Remove the plastic cover that says ECOTEC to expose the disc cover and coil pack. The disc cover is a round disc that is glued to the top of the cam cover....search around the site a bit for photos if needed. Notice the side of the cover has a tiny vacuum port to atmosphere.
Start the engine. 
If the valve has failed you will hear a rather loud vacuum leak from the port I mentioned.......put your finger tip over the hole to plug the leak and the idle will stabilize.
The code that sets is a P0171......uncontrolled vacuum leak.

If this is the failed part you have more fun ahead of you. The burst valve usually fails as a result of a failed check valve.....this part is a component of the intake manifold. Search the forum for 'Check Valve' to find photos and inspection methods.
If the valve is missing (blown out) the manifold must be replaced in conjunction with the cam cover.

Rob


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Robby said:


> Burst valve is a device that controls extreme crankcase pressure moments that can develop in a turbocharged engine.
> 
> Remove the plastic cover that says ECOTEC to expose the disc cover and coil pack. The disc cover is a round disc that is glued to the top of the cam cover....search around the site a bit for photos if needed. Notice the side of the cover has a tiny vacuum port to atmosphere.
> Start the engine.
> ...


Ahhh... not an ECOTEC and no turbo.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Chris98vobra said:


> Ahhh... not an ECOTEC and no turbo.


Silly me.....I thought we were discussing a 1.4.

It gets better.......I cannot prove a 1.8 even has a knock sensor.....yet.

Rob


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Robby said:


> Silly me.....I thought we were discussing a 1.4.
> 
> It gets better.......I cannot prove a 1.8 even has a knock sensor.....yet.
> 
> Rob


Well, the dealer says it does (at least they were ready to charge her for one) and Rock Auto shows the part number for the 1.8, so that is what I ordered. That said, I'm still not convinced its the real problem. But heck, its only money and time.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

OK,

Found it.....about the same location for either engine......seems the 1.8 version comes with a wire harness attached.

No suggestions till you can provide a hard code#.

Rob


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

OK we got this far without knowing enough.

[h=2]Fix my Cruze!!![/h]We want to help you fix your Cruze as quickly as possible. To do that, we need some basic information, such as:

1. Year, trim level, and transmission.
2. Miles on the car!!! 
3. Check engine light, airbag, or other warning light on or "Service [insert system here]" message showing? Has somebody told you the code if the check engine light is on?
4. Approximate location of the issue.
5. As detailed a description of the problem as you can give. Something like "My 2012 Cruze Eco manual transmission with 50k miles on it is making a grinding noise from around the brake pedal at 12 mph every time I start the car, and doesn't do it again until I start the car again" is enough to let us get started. (Hint: I described the ABS self-check, and that check is normal for every Cruze on startup)
6. Country! Your warranty and repair options might be different in other countries than here in the United States or Canada.
7. (as needed): Left-hand drive or right-hand drive? If your car is right-hand drive, that's nice to know since a lot of us on this board have little experience with RHD cars. 

Lastly, please be patient and polite! All the folks on this board are doing this in their spare time for free, so we might not be able to reply immediately.

(stolen from Sciphi)
​


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

What about this question from above about the knock sensor code?
"If the knock sensor is going off too much does that cause it?"

A knock sensor is designed to tell the PCM to retard timing if knocking is sensed. To set a knock sensor code (what the dealer said it was setting) does it need to actually show a fault in the device (failed) or will it set if it is just going off too much? 

Thanks

Chris


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

A knock sensor 'reads' vibration.......vibration of a high amplitude rings through the block if spark knock (pre-ignition in this case) and the sensor is supposed to send that info to the ecm......the ecm will retard the ignition timing in an effort to eliminate the reported knock.

Here is the rub......Is the sensor not sending information (a bad sensor) or is it sending information that the computer considers useless (also bad sensor).

Also, if this engine is making any abnormal mechanical sounds a functioning sensor will interpet that as knock as well.

I'm kind of afraid to make any suggestions because the info you have provided is, well, not much to go on.

I don't know if the sensor failed a electrical test or a function test......if it failed a function test it would be normal to exchange the unit to help determine if it is the actual failure or should further testing take place upstream.
One of those components the manual says to exchange with known good unit.

Rob


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Robby said:


> I'm kind of afraid to make any suggestions because the info you have provided is, well, not much to go on.


Yep, I know...thanks for helping me as a sounding board. Next step is when I get the car back and to dig deeper in and get the codes now. I'll report back about what I discover.


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Okay gang, I have more info. P0171 is the lean code I think that is causing all of the problems. I think the knock sensor is just a secondary affect due to idle issues. The upstream O2 wasn't swinging great so I replaced it. I also cleaned the MAF so I could knock out the easy stuff. Unfortunately neither of those made any difference. 

I can see with my OBD tool that the issue seems to be at low RPMs so it seems like a possible vacuum leak. However, I can't hear any obvious leak and spraying carb cleaner around the intake doesn't seem to affect the idle. I've read that the 1.4s have a big issue with leaking PCV valves, which are built in the cover. I guess this 1.8 may have the same chronic issue, though the PCV seems to be handing off the back right side instead of the top.

I'm sure that a new valve cover and gasket is pretty expensive but I'm short of other ideas to suggest to my daughter. Any other ideas as what might be causing this behavior? 

Thanks

Chris

..... I did one more check and disconnected the PCV hose at the throttle body and plugged the hole. Correct me if I am wrong, but in doing this, I should have removed the PCV and valve cover from the equation, right? Doing this did help but short term and long term trims re still way off.


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Okay...I'm sure this thing is possessed! I just went back outside to look at it again and to try and figure out where else a vacuum leak or unmetered air leaking could be coming from. This time, I simply plugged the throttle body PCV opening while leaving the PCV hose hanging. I started the car and watched the short and long term trims settle down exactly to where they should be. I then cleared the P0171 and kept watching as all behaved the way a normal car should. So my thinking is I got it! It is the valve cover/PCV that needs replacement. So I then reconnect the hose to the throttle body. Started it up again, and expected to see trims adding fuel and then a code setting. But no! Everything keeps looking as it should!

I stopped and started the car several times and the same thing happens. No lean condition and no sign of fuel trims off at all.

I did check the hoses and made sure they had seated properly the each time I had them off. But maybe that was still the issue? I perplexed and need to do some driving and more testing to see if the "fix" holds.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

The PCV is independent of the cam cover on the 1.8.......the only commonality between these engines is they can be found in a Cruze and they are both 4 cylinder.

Beyond that, they may have come from a different planet.

I'm wondering if the pcv pintle was stuck in the open position and you fiddling about freed it up.....strictly a wag on that one, but anything is possible.

Be aware, a loose or poorly seated oil fill cap or a dipstick missing its 'O' rings at the top can set the lean code as well.

Rob


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

Robby said:


> The PCV is independent of the cam cover on the 1.8.......the only commonality between these engines is they can be found in a Cruze and they are both 4 cylinder.


The 1.8 has the PCV integrated into the valve cover also, though it is different from the 1.4 config. Gremlins drive me crazy but something obviously got "fixed"with my messing around. I did reseat the oil cap and dipstick several times so maybe something finally sealed.

Time will tell....thanks for the help.

Chris


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

I'm documenting this in case some else has this same issue. My daughter drove the car today to work and it ran great for a while then started doing the same thing again.  She brought it back to me this evening and I pulled the code and it was the same P0171. Too lean and maxed out short and long term trims. I had some time to think about this and had an idea of what could be the problem. 1.5 years ago I replaced the EVAP valve to remove a code she was getting. I had played with that a bit during my experimenting on Saturday (unplugged, plugged in, checked fittings, etc...) and it occurred to me that maybe that valve had an issue again, in spite of not getting a code. So when she arrived, the first thing I did was I took off the feed hose from the tank and put a rubber stopper on the end of the valve. Low and behold, instantly the trims cleared up again and the car ran well. 

I've ordered a new valve which will be here in 2 days. If all goes well then I'll have it fixed this time.


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## Chris98vobra (Apr 23, 2018)

I wanted to make a final note on this thread. Since plugging the EVAP 4 days earlier the car has run perfectly with no codes. Friday night I replaced the EVAP valve and on Saturday my daughter passed inspection. She had a code for the knock sensor the screen popped up saying her antiskid wasn't working. These issues disappeared once the EVAP was plugged and then replaced.

So a P0171 could be caused by the valve cover and also by EVAP issues.


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