# New generation TDI's with Common Rail/DPF/SCR and those with Automatic transmissions



## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Following the break-in after 10,000 miles wont change anything. Modifying how you shift will directly impact the life of the turbo and the cylinders.

Most people that baby the engine by shifting at 2,000 rpm probably would not even notice a jammed VNT since they never get on the power. This has led in at least one case that I am very familar with, an engine whose compression was so low that the engine would have needed to be replaced due to jammed rings from the lack of boost when driving. Once we freed up the VNT the owner by simply following the shifting recommendations I listed was able to get the compression to recover to 470 PSI in about 2 weeks. The compression in this case had dropped to 330 psi far below spec causing serious missing and hard starting issues.

A Turbo charged engine does not suffer ill effects from higher boost pressure like a "Non Turbo Engine WITH a turbo" installed would like the case may be with a 2.0 gasser with an aftermarket turbo upgrade. The rings are designed in such a way that the combustion gasses get behind the comression ring causing the ring to expand outward and down forcing the ring to seal the gasses and prevent them from getting between the cylinder and ring/piston. The shape of the interior diameter varies based on the combustion gas pressures created by the burning of fuel and air. If the ring is designed for a turbo charged or Super charged engine they reduce the surface area thus requiring higher cylinder pressures to create the required pressure on the ring to seal in the gasses. Running an engine that is designed for a turbo charger at low boost pressures or low loads means that gasses are not being sufficiently sealed from passing around the ring. When this occurs the carbon eventually builds around the ring jamming it in the groove and preventing it from expanding and contracting with the gas pressure fluctuations from each combustion event in the cylinder. This is the principle behind the shift recommendations that I tell everyone to follow.

In Practice, I have found that the 2,500 rpm range when cold allows the Glow Plugs to remain on helping to assist the engine reach operating temperature WITHOUT revving the engine too high with the cold oil. Once your engine is warm shifting at no less that 3,000 is sufficient to get the engine on boost and cycle the VNT guide vanes throughout their full range. Keep in mind that this engine if it was allowed by the ECU could safely reve to around 7,000 rpm with not ill effects. The TDI is not a long stroke diesel like in a 3,000 rpm redline CAT, instead the TDI uses a near identical stroke as a gasser and increases the compression by nearly eliminating the combustion chamber when compared to a gasoline engine. With a good synthetic like Delvac 1 5w40 rpms of 2,500 are simply a NON issue when the engine is cold in temps of -30F. In fact not getting the engine to operating temp quickly does more harm than good by keeping rpms excessively low (less than 2,000 rpm shifts not to mention the soot build up on the VNT).

As far as the Automatic transmission TDI's the Transmission ECU is already programmed with a "Warm Up" program to facilitate a faster warm up, The Chevy Cruze has this!, with increase rpm shift points, in other words its all taken care of so just drive it and forget about it. I doubt that you would ever see a jammed VNT on any automatic transmission provided that its not allowed to idle excessively.

I hope this helps and explains a few things. If any one has any question please send me a PM or post it here.


GAS mileage?







You're talking DIESEL, or FUEL mileage? (GAS mileage should be zero)









Be patient with the mileage. It only gets better over time. Given that the TDI takes so long to fully break-in, one of the consequences is that it takes some miles (about ~ 15-20k miles) to see the mileage improvements, so be patient.

I've found that my tendency to zip around doing spirited driving and highway cruising at 80+ MPH does cause the mileage to take a bit of a hit. The mileage hit is nowhere near as big as it would be if I were driving gasser, especially a turbo gasser. (I used to drive a 06 Pontiac GTO.)mg:

I'm getting around 42-52 MPG with my bone stock Cruze and

I've found from my TDI experience over the past year that it really does take around 60k miles to fully break in.Performance Will get better with time and miles. Oil consumption is pretty much negligible. There are TDIclum members with well over 100k miles on their TDIs and their performance and mileage are STILL improving! (How many gassers can do that?)

Congratulations on the new ride and get out there and Drive! Caution: There is no known medical cure for "Cruze" addiction".










When I say use the full rpm range that means what ever you feel comfortable using. The idea is not to rev the engine and keep it revved, the idea is to LOAD the engine. When getting onto a highway revving the engine in 3rd and 4th "Load" the engine on the on ramp but this also means using a large portion of the rpm band perhaps even getting into the 4,000+ range. Listen for the turbo, when you hear it whooshing this means you are loading the engine or another way to put it is you are "On Boost". This is what seats the rings.

Rpms are also important in terms of getting the turbos' VGV's to cycle. As a rule the no lower than 2,500/3,000 shift rule is to allow the turbo's VGV's to cycle and clear the turbo preventing a jammed VNT. 

Keep it simple and load the engine but don't baby it !!!!at 1,900 unless you want to buy a new turbo.

When I say use the full rpm range that means what ever you feel comfortable using. The idea is not to rev the engine and keep it revved, the idea is to LOAD the engine. When getting onto a highway revving the engine in 3rd and 4th "Load" the engine on the on ramp but this also means using a large portion of the rpm band perhaps even getting into the 4,000+ range. Listen for the turbo, when you hear it whooshing this means you are loading the engine or another way to put it is you are "On Boost". This is what seats the rings.

Rpms are also important in terms of getting the turbos' VGV's to cycle. As a rule the no lower than 2,500/3,000 shift rule is to allow the turbo's VGV's to cycle and clear the turbo preventing a jammed VNT. 

Keep it simple and load the engine but don't baby it by shifting at 1,900 unless you want to buy a new turbo.


Also the correct ID to ours cars is Common Rail Turbo Direct Injection. (CRTDI) TD stands for Turbo Diesel.

when using a 5w40 synthetic oil the "Over revving" or "Over loading" when the engine is cold is virtually eliminated. The ECU knows what is going on and the transmission ECU as well monitors the engine systems so let it do it's thing. Keep in mind we are not talking about a 10L CAT diesel with a 2,600 rpm redline. 

Your engine has oil injection, so splash lubrication is not a concern with cold oil. Oil will be injected under each piston and into each cylinder with a continuous spray of oil when the engine is hot or cold. 

The other thing worth mentioning is that the auto does not have a coolant heater system. Shifting above 2,500 is a non issue because the coolant heaters are not there so they won't shut off. the higher revs also help to create heat in the tranny...Remember that the tranny is liquid cooled using the same coolant as the engine, in fact the circuit is hooked up so that the transmission replaces the coolant heater circuit, thus the transmission helps to heat the engine when cold. It goes back to just letting the transmission ECU do it's thing.


The fact that compression increases up to 60,000 miles dows play a part in the overall efficiency of the motor.

Leakage past the rings in a new engine which eventually become matched to their respective bores will increase the overall efficiency of the motor.

New compression is around 475 psi cranking where an engine with around 30,000 miles is around 525psi meaning that a majority of the break occurs in the first 30,000 or so miles. Notice that the highest increase in fuel economy occurs within this mileage range. From 30,000 to 60,000 miles the compression continues to increase to around 550 psi cranking pressure with perhaps a slight improvement in that time.

The reason for revving the engine to 2500 is to increase the flow of gasses BUT there are several other factors you are not taking into consideration.

The VE series TDI's as well as the PD engines DO NOT make peak injection pressure below 2,000 rpms! The means driving at the lower rpms decreases your injection pressure, thus reducing the quality of the injection event. Peak pressure occurs at or around 3,000 rpm.

Revving the rpms to 2500 when shifting also increases the hydraulic heating of the fuel system, meaning you get warmer fuel faster reducing emissions as well as increasing the quality of the fuel injection event. Warm fuel (to a point) is needed to get the right viscosity for proper fuel delivery control.

Revving to 2500 rpms also increases the flow of oil within the engine. This increases the flow of oil under the pistons, increases volume through the oil the water heat exchanger...In other words you are decreasing the time to get the engine up to operating temperature.

Shifting at 2500 rpms also increases the piston bore speed meaning that you have higher compression temperatures to aid in auto ignition of the fuel due to decreases in thermal loss although this can be argued that its the higher fuel pressure improving the fuel injection event.

2,000 rpms also places ALL TDI's right at the surge line in terms of compressor surge on the turbo. For those that are chipped or ninjectored 2,000 rpms is one area that you have no business driving within for any period of time much less shifting AT 2000 rpm meaning you are alwasy on the verge of compressor surge/stall...KABOOM there goes the turbo!

Again when the engine is cold, shift at 2500
When the engine is warm, 3,000.


----------



## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

"Common-rail" engines.

You must use an engine oil that explicitly states that it conforms to VW 507.00. NOTHING ELSE. These engines are too new for anyone to have experimented long-term with substitutes ... and in this case, the effect on the emission control components has to be considered. The VW part number for what is normally used at the dealer is GVW-052-195-M2.

Due to the limited number of VW diesels in North America, these oils are typically available only at VW dealers and parts vendors that specialize in VW cars. Other parts vendors might be able to special order it, so ask. To forestall another question, this is NOT a "monopoly". Engine oil vendors outside of VW dealers are perfectly free to market oils that meet VW's standards. The fact that not many have chosen to do so is THEIR fault, not VW's.

Beware the "meets or exceeds" game. The oil has to be certified to these standards by VW themselves. Amsoil is one notable oil brand which does not pay for such certification. They produce an oil which states VW 505.01 on the bottle, but it is not on VW's list of certified oils. That doesn't mean it's a bad product ... it just means that if something bad happens, there is a possibility that VW isn't going to warranty it (on the grounds that you did not use one of VW's certified oils), and if that happens, you are going to have a battle on your hands. It is BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS THREAD to explore the fine points of VW 505.01 certification, the subject has been beaten to death elsewhere with no end in sight, this thread merely serves to make you aware of the situation. If you want to research this, search the forums - there is already a ton of discussion on this and I'm not going to tolerate any further discussion of it in this thread.

WHAT HAPPENS IF I USE SOMETHING ELSE?

If the oil is not meant for diesel engines, it won't survive the high-soot environment. Oil meant for diesel engines is formulated to deal with the soot.

If you use a non-synthetic oil, it doesn't withstand high temperatures as well as synthetic oil. There are two areas of concern, the turbocharger, and the upper piston rings. There have been cases reported where upper piston rings were sticking due to oil breakdown, causing high piston ring and cylinder wall wear. There have been cases where turbochargers coked up their oil feed line and grenaded as a result.

If you use an oil that doesn't meet VW 505.01 in a P-D, expect high camshaft and lifter wear in the long term. MOBIL 1 (Gasoline engine oil) IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. (Some people have been reporting good oil-analysis results using Mobil 1 TDT even though it doesn't carry the VW approval.) These engines have unusually high contact pressures between the camshaft and lifters due to the narrow cam lobes forced by the space taken up by the P-D injector mechanism. It is NOT a safe assumption that an oil suitable for large truck engines which also have unit injectors will work in a VW P-D TDI.

If you use an oil that doesn't meet VW 507.00 in a common-rail engine, there is a risk that the additive package in the oil will be incompatible with the (very expensive) emission control system - and it's not only the emission control system at risk. These engines deliberately squirt an extra shot of fuel into the cylinder on the exhaust stroke to heat up the catalytic converter in order to "regenerate". A portion of this fuel will end up on the cylinder walls, be scraped up by the piston rings, and end up in the crankcase, where it will dilute the engine oil. The engine oil must be designed to tolerate a certain amount of fuel dilution on these engines.


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I feel enlightened on proper treatment of a cold, CR diesel. I've finally broke myself of the idling habit recently, but did try to baby under 2,500rpm while cold. I'll reconsider my approach and get after it a bit more 

Now I realize VW uses a break in formula from the factory as you mentioned which is why you want to keep it in there for the first 10k. I did not know this until now which is why I thought you were nuts recommending this to us before. My question of why has been answered. Correct me if I'm wrong but our cruzes do NOT have any special break in formula in them. Just a cut rate shitty semi-synthetic oil. I was planning on doing an oil change today at 2k and then another at 7.5k (to get back on schedule and get all the old GM stuff out) but will hold off if there's a good reason for it such as with VW's.


----------



## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

Well I hope I'm still ok. I mainly drive interstate. I bought the car strictly for Fuel saving. I'm at 8000 miles now and have used the cruise set at around 1800 rpms since new. I guess you could say I've babied it. So am I at having future problem's for not going up and down the rpms as stated???? I have driven semis for the last 26 years and they are governed at 65 mph running at the same RPMs for many miles but last well into the million mile range. So why do they last so long when driven at a constant rpm range. I also know when your shifting a big rig it goes through a lot of different rpms so that could be the difference.


----------



## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Good Day Gator,
A Semis is a Long stroke diesel and the Cuze is a Short Stroke Diesel big difference. Our cars once broke in have 2 speeds ,dead stop and wide open. As you read in the post its very important to follow the break in to get a good seating on the rings. Gator just go back and read and start doing the Break in as posted and you will be good to go. If you have any more question send me a pm.


----------



## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

I have not been able to confirm if this Break in oil from factory is like what VW does and yes even I have called Germany and I still get different answers as I my self want to know . If and when I find it , I will share it with every one.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Stickied. Good stuff here Manny.


----------



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

GotDiesel? said:


> I have not been able to confirm if this Break in oil from factory is like what VW does and yes even I have called Germany and I still get different answers as I my self want to know . If and when I find it , I will share it with every one.


So given the above, can you clarify whether your oft repeated recommendation, that diesel owners keep the factory fill oil in their crankcases for 10,000 miles, still stands?


----------



## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

At this point since I can't get a straight answer ,Me I am going to change the oil sooner then later , just to be on the safe side.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

It's funny, engine break in is an important topic for gearheads like us, but 99% of people who buy these cars will probably never have even heard the term "break in". I would be interested to see how these engines age with each of us on the forum here. I will probably be one of the first to hit 100K miles (probably about another year and a half if I keep up my current habits) and I plan on reporting my results on here at that time.


----------



## TD_Cruze (Jan 15, 2014)

diesel said:


> It's funny, engine break in is an important topic for gearheads like us, but 99% of people who buy these cars will probably never have even heard the term "break in". I would be interested to see how these engines age with each of us on the forum here. I will probably be one of the first to hit 100K miles (probably about another year and a half if I keep up my current habits) and I plan on reporting my results on here at that time.


Same here, when I get mine this spring, I plan on keeping it forever. With all the highway driving I do, it will pay for itself. Also, if I wanted to sell it a long ways down the road (which I won't), I could get a good price for it, because everyone would be going diesel for the fuel economy.


----------

