# Engine failing at 150000 miles



## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

Well got the bad news today that quote from Chevy dealer that " my engine is coming apart inside" and that I need a engine replacement. I was driving on highway and starting hearing a whinding when accelerating and when got to work I heard a clunking noise and engine was having hard time idling. The noise would come and go and 1st and 2nd gear felt sluggish. The dealer couldn't find anything wrong Saturday and said it was running fine but I assured him something was going on with it. Today they called and said heard and felt it driving it and the engine is failing. Anyone else have this problem and after I get 2nd opinion to make sure it isn't the timing belt or anything else I'll prob part it out if anyone needs any replacement parts on it. Transmission is solid. So disappointed this might be the end of the little torque monster.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I am curious to know what exactly it is that they say is coming apart or has failed? 

I would hope the timing belt would have been checked by them. If it hasn't been changed yet it's way overdue. And, if it failed for any reason the engine will be destroyed.


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> I am curious to know what exactly it is that they say is coming apart or has failed?
> 
> I would hope the timing belt would have been checked by them. If it hasn't been changed yet it's way overdue. And, if it failed for any reason the engine will be destroyed.


I had a transmission change around 52000 miles under warranty so they changed belt and water pump then. Was about to inspect the belt since it was Coming up on 100000 miles. I'm picking up tommorrow and gonna take to a local repair shop for second opinion. I'll keep you updated.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

oil pump pickup seal


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

Diesel4Ever said:


> oil pump pickup seal


I'll mention to service in morning. Thanks.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Diesel4Ever said:


> oil pump pickup seal


Good call. This pump pickup seal appears to be a somewhat common high millage issue with the 1st gen Diesels. And if left unchecked for too long could lead to engine failure. 

It seems like it almost should be considered a wear item to be done at the 100k mile timing change interval, unless the replacement part is upgraded?


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

TDCruze said:


> Good call. This pump pickup seal appears to be a somewhat common high millage issue with the 1st gen Diesels. And if left unchecked for too long could lead to engine failure.
> 
> It seems like it almost should be considered a wear item to be done at the 100k mile timing change interval, unless the replacement part is upgraded?


I'm about to roll 160k on mine and 7.5 years old. I'll be pulling it into my garage once the weather warms up and planning to drive the Jeep for a while so I can pull and clean the intake and do this oil pick up seal.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Oil Pump Pick Up Seal


This is to create a stickied thread dedicated to the rubber seal that rests between the metal oil pump mounted on the engine block and the plastic pick up tube that descends into the oil pan. This seal hardens with time and use. Loosing its pliability and causing the oil pump to draw small...




www.cruzetalk.com


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

revjpeterson said:


> I'm about to roll 160k on mine and 7.5 years old. I'll be pulling it into my garage once the weather warms up and planning to drive the Jeep for a while so I can pull and clean the intake and do this oil pick up seal.


have you read anything aboot removing the intake and such?

id love to clean mine (im deleted), but have no idea how involved that job is....ive seen the euro engine done, dunno how much is applicable to ours


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

revjpeterson said:


> I'm about to roll 160k on mine and 7.5 years old. I'll be pulling it into my garage once the weather warms up and planning to drive the Jeep for a while so I can pull and clean the intake and do this oil pick up seal.


Yes, thats another good idea. I can imagine the intake has become very full of carbon and would benefit from a full removal and cleaning.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I can only assume it's going to be a nightmare, given all the mechanicals _inside_ the intake. Might need to be hot tanked or something to break it all up.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

and see if the swirl valves are falling apart


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

boraz said:


> have you read anything aboot removing the intake and such?
> 
> id love to clean mine (im deleted), but have no idea how involved that job is....ive seen the euro engine done, dunno how much is applicable to ours


I'm not completely sure either, which is why I'm figuring on just planning for it to be immobile for a week while I take my time and work through it right. I think it should just be a matter of removing the throttle body and sensors, EGR, and the intake bolts. Reaching around behind the engine, that still won't be a quick process, though. I'm thinking about going ahead and throwing a new oil cooler on there while I've got it all apart and the access is easier, since I'll already be at 170-175k, and they do have a habit of failing. I won't have the intake off again (since the source of the soot went away back around 120k), so this seems like a good time to get everything freshened up and hopefully not touch it again until my 14 year old finishes grad school. 



TDCruze said:


> Yes, thats another good idea. I can imagine the intake has become very full of carbon and would benefit from a full removal and cleaning.


When I had the throttle body off at 120k and pulled the MAP sensor to clean it, it was a mess in there. It shouldn't have gotten any worse, but I'm sure the buildup is why I'm only getting 75% of the fuel economy I got when the car was new. 



MP81 said:


> I can only assume it's going to be a nightmare, given all the mechanicals _inside_ the intake. Might need to be hot tanked or something to break it all up.


When I reached in there while the throttle body was off, the deposits seemed to fall apart with a pretty light touch. I shop-vac-ed out a good bit of them that were within reach from the TB opening, so I assume that as long as I can reach everywhere inside through the head ports, I can get it all. If not, I do have a big enough bucket to submerge it at home, if I can discern the right solvent. I'm thinking now that I'll pull and clean the charge pipe and intercooler and convert the PCV/CCV to an open breather while I'm at it. 



boraz said:


> and see if the swirl valves are falling apart


That's the thing that I'm most afraid of finding. With being at 75-80% of my fuel economy that it got when it was new, I'm wondering if it's more than the crud causing it, and the runners are broken too. If they are, I can't see spending $1900 on a new intake ever paying back that investment with restored fuel economy, so I'd probably just extract any pieces that were at risk of getting sucked into the head if they broke further, (Maybe even remove the runners completely and port the intake for better air flow, if it looked like it wouldn't cause any collateral problems by doing so) and re-install to run without them. As I get closer to my oldest turning 16, I'm contemplating buying another Gen1 Diesel and a spare engine/trans, so maybe that might result in some donor parts available to make use of.


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> I am curious to know what exactly it is that they say is coming apart or has failed?
> 
> I would hope the timing belt would have been checked by them. If it hasn't been changed yet it's way overdue. And, if it failed for any reason the engine will be destroyed.



So talked to the service dept and the engine locked up. Won't even start now.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Cruzediesel81 said:


> So talked to the service dept and the engine locked up. Won't even start now.


with the information we have

solid guess on the oil pickup seal


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Did the oil pressure low light ever come on while you were driving it?


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

boraz said:


> with the information we have
> 
> solid guess on the oil pickup seal


That makes sense with everything I'm reading about it. It's been real cold in Indiana and it sat for couple days.


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Did the oil pressure low light ever come on while you were driving it?


No. Check engine light didn't either.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

revjpeterson said:


> I'm not completely sure either, which is why I'm figuring on just planning for it to be immobile for a week while I take my time and work through it right. I think it should just be a matter of removing the throttle body and sensors, EGR, and the intake bolts. Reaching around behind the engine, that still won't be a quick process, though.


from the reading ive done, pretty sure fuel pump gotta come off

you can leave the timing belt and gear and all that, make sure you lock it so it dont move

i would get new seals for all the intake ports


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

boraz said:


> from the reading ive done, pretty sure fuel pump gotta come off
> 
> you can leave the timing belt and gear and all that, make sure you lock it so it dont move
> 
> i would get new seals for all the intake ports


If the fuel pump has to come off and I'm at 175k, might just go ahead and do the 200k timing belt service early while I'm in there. When I was placing a rockauto order last fall, I noticed the intake gasket was at the same warehouse as my other part, so already picked up one of those. I'm actually putting on a new MAP sensor, since it was cheap, and I've already cleaned twice, and I have about every size o-ring on hand, so should be able to replace any of those I encounter along the way. Other than throttle body and EGR cover plate, are there any other seals I haven't thought of on the intake?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

boraz said:


> with the information we have
> 
> solid guess on the oil pickup seal


Hopefully they can tear it down and check - I don't think we have a _definitive_ failure of one over here yet in North America, though a few potentially were suspected of it.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Hopefully they can tear it down and check - I don't think we have a _definitive_ failure of one over here yet in North America, though a few potentially were suspected of it.


would love if they did

cant see why they would, its seized no value to anyone to find out why


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

revjpeterson said:


> If the fuel pump has to come off and I'm at 175k, might just go ahead and do the 200k timing belt service early while I'm in there. When I was placing a rockauto order last fall, I noticed the intake gasket was at the same warehouse as my other part, so already picked up one of those. I'm actually putting on a new MAP sensor, since it was cheap, and I've already cleaned twice, and I have about every size o-ring on hand, so should be able to replace any of those I encounter along the way. Other than throttle body and EGR cover plate, are there any other seals I haven't thought of on the intake?


yeah i can see doin tb service same time

think you have to drain coolant anyways, coolant runs thru the intake and egr i think


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## revjpeterson (Oct 2, 2013)

boraz said:


> yeah i can see doin tb service same time
> 
> think you have to drain coolant anyways, coolant runs thru the intake and egr i think


A certain amount of coolant does need to be replaced. I knew there was a coolant passage related to the EGR. The right-rear is the one quadrant of the engine I haven't explored on this car yet, but looking at photos of the intake from parts sites, it appears that the coolant supply to the oil cooler might take a path through the intake as well. If that's the case, then definitely getting the timing belt out of the way rather than going back in 25k miles later.


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## 15cruzediesel (Sep 30, 2019)

Cruzediesel81 said:


> So talked to the service dept and the engine locked up. Won't even start now.


I am curious to know how long you have owned the car and what your oil change intervals were in that 150k miles.


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

15cruzediesel said:


> I am curious to know how long you have owned the car and what your oil change intervals were in that 150k miles.



Bought brand new. Oil changes were every 3000 miles with alot of highway driving. Service dept reached out to GM about anything they could do to help since it shouldn't of seized up at 150000 miles but they declined. Have a buddy that is gonna buy and rebuild the engine so at least someone will take good care of it. I'm done with it. It's cost me enough money through the years. Loved the car but I don't feel comfortable fixing and having to worry about the emissions system or other problems that might rear there ugly face again. Good luck to you and the other TD Owners. And thanks for the help


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

If it's being rebuilt by a friend of yours, please follow that - specifically in regards to the failure point, so we have an idea what killed it...especially if it was the oil pump seal...


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

MP81 said:


> If it's being rebuilt by a friend of yours, please follow that - specifically in regards to the failure point, so we have an idea what killed it...especially if it was the oil pump seal...


Will do. Yes it's a friend and I'll let him know to keep me updated.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Awesome, much appreciated from all of us here.


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## Cruzediesel81 (Oct 28, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Awesome, much appreciated from all of us here.


So just dropped of to my buddy for him to rebuild. His guess before he starts working on it is one of the rocker arms went bad inside the engine. Told him to take pictures of the oil pickup seal and inspect that too so will keep you guys posted when he gets to it. He's retired from gm so might not be for awhile as it's a project for him.


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## KrisW (May 30, 2020)

Please do update us on the reason for the failure. Maybe have your buddy join the group? I'd like to know since I plan on keeping this car forever and resurrecting it as often as it takes.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Is he someone that is into over-documenting things with pictures? If so, that would be very great to see A) what killed it and B) how the rest of the engine has fared.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Fella's ... I don't know about that oil pickup seal causing a failure like this. I can't imagine that the oil pressure sensor is not somewhere that would show a reasonable pressure but yet the oil is not making it's way into the block. If that is the case it's a serious design defect.

I don't know where the oil pressure sensor is on these. Where are they?


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## Sygma6 (Oct 27, 2017)

I am thinking what I think happened to my engine happened to yours. The LUZ engine has a variable geometry oil pump. If it gets stuck on low flow you will still have oil pressure but not enough volume of oil flowing through the engine to keep everything lubricated properly. Tore up the crank bearings and the crankshaft on my car. If I didn't still owe money on mine I would have rolled it off a cliff.


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