# Emissions delete/race tune install



## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

So, you do not care about other's health? That is what you are saying? Because Libertarians do not care about the environment??
Anybody you care about have severe allergies or ASTHMA? Because if you do, you are literally jamming your arm down their throat and squeezing their lungs. But hey, if you want to spend $1227.60 to help make others suffer, that's on you. I just hope they enact Diesel emission inspections. Have a nice life.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Great, I'll be doing the same thing when the weather breaks. Keep us posted!


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

Hi Sailurman:
He may actually be doing you a favor!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter

[h=2]Health Considerations[/h]The additional cost burden of DPF filters is primarily passed to consumers with possibly the only benefit being quieter trucks. Any reduction in overall soot by mass, aka diesel particulate matter (DPM), may be negated by the mostly-ignored fact that DPM from DPFs is extremely fine, finer than the DPM that is released from pre-DPF diesel engines.[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP] The finer DPM is estimated to have more surface area and penetrate lung tissue more easily than larger particles. No healthy human studies have been performed at diesel exhaust concentrations normally found in an urban or city environment, eliminating other health contributing factors to disease would be insurmountable in such a study.[SUP][11]



[/SUP]


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

You go girl. hahahaha.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

sailurman said:


> So, you do not care about other's health? That is what you are saying? Because Libertarians do not care about the environment??
> Anybody you care about have severe allergies or ASTHMA? Because if you do, you are literally jamming your arm down their throat and squeezing their lungs. But hey, if you want to spend $1227.60 to help make others suffer, that's on you. I just hope they enact Diesel emission inspections. Have a nice life.


False equivalencies and strawman arguments won't suffice here. I don't mind if you disagree with my decision-in fact, I welcome opposition and corrections- but you'll have to do better than that. If you truly believed what you just wrote, I think you'd be far better off protesting at truck stops and diesel truck pulls. My puny 2.0L diesel will have zero effect upon your health, or anyone else's for that matter. 

With regards to the build, I want to be as upfront and honest as possible. Politics aside, I feel that practically and mechanically speaking, this is the lesser of two evils for this engine. Given that I want to keep it in the family for many years, I believe that installing these race parts will better serve that purpose, cost the least, and also put a bigger smile on my face when I mash the skinny pedal. If diesel ever goes back to $4 and $5\gallon, it will definitely help pay for itself, but I doubt that it ever will. This is more about a) fixing issues from the factory\EPA, and b) my propensity to modify and customize, especially where I see heavy-handed interference into my personal possessions. 

Update: Fleece is a bit iffy on the customer service side. I'm not one to complain, but for $1200, you'd think they would take care of customers better, especially given that we're supporting their skirting the edges of the law. They won't provide instructions on how to do the install, and they never did send any kind of tracking number or shipment notification. However, I did receive the package today, after ordering it 2 days ago. They also knocked off 10% for my wearing the US flag on my shoulder. 

All that comes in the package is the EFI Live tuner, 2 cables for the tuner, the hand-built down pipe, and a set of instructions for the tuner that seem to be have been written by a 2nd grader. Again, not to pick a bone with Fleece off the bat, but numerous grammar errors, plus a down pipe that already needs a re-coat of paint... we'll see how the finished product is. The welds on the pipe and bungs aren't exactly 5 out of 5 stars, either, but all I need is for the tune to be spot-on, and for the pipe to fit and not leak. 

Going to try to install this weekend or next weekend.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Just ignore the troll and keep the thread on point. Even acknowledging the post is like voluntarily banging your head on the wall.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

With the downpipe do you basically just remove the DPF, install the downpipe in its place and leave all the sensors on the rest of the pipe in place even though they're dead?


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

I believe so. I'm guessing the engine will still need some of the oxygen sensor(s) to adjust the air\fuel ratio, but other than that, I don't know what else will be vital to keep it running without a CEL. There are 4 bungs on the Fleece pipe.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> I believe so. I'm guessing the engine will still need some of the oxygen sensor(s) to adjust the air\fuel ratio, but other than that, I don't know what else will be vital to keep it running without a CEL. There are 4 bungs on the Fleece pipe.



Ok, just curious because I figured there would be some kind of basic instructions related to that. I guess not. I'm ok to work on cars but I'm not a diesel expert or tuner guy so it's all new to me.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

I'm also on the learning curve here with regards to this install. I'll be doing it with either a professional welder friend, or a different friend who's got a 650 HP Mustang he built himself. I'm not too worried, but instructions would have been great to have. However, having tuned and worked on a few Duramax motors back in the day, it shouldn't be too far out in left field for me.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> I'm also on the learning curve here with regards to this install. I'll be doing it with either a professional welder friend, or a different friend who's got a 650 HP Mustang he built himself. I'm not too worried, but instructions would have been great to have. However, having tuned and worked on a few Duramax motors back in the day, it shouldn't be too far out in left field for me.



Great, Keep us posted!


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

I'm glad to see another diesel going the deleted route. I'll be following this thread. Do you plan on taking any videos after the install is done?


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

So a couple of questions for you .....what's the difference between the [h=1]EFILive AutoCal with Custom ECM Tuning and the EFILive AutoCal with Special Edition Custom ECM Tuning. Do you need the special edition one if you do the downpipe and to get the EGR delete whereas the other one is for stock cars?[/h]
Next question, do you know if it also deactivates the DEF system as part of the tune?

Last question, and I might've just missed reading this, but just curious if your car is still under warranty?


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

Btw, I'm using my iPad, so I apologize for the screwed up font.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Yes the delete does deactivate the def system.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

So does the scr still stay in the exhaust, it is just not used? I believe only the dpf is physically removed, and the scr stays there and basically does nothing after the delete.

If so, I wonder how much of a restriction it will be, and if it would be worth it to have it removed, replaced with a piece of straight exhaust pipe, with flanges welded onto the exhaust system, new pipe, and scr, so that if it was ever necessary the scr could just be bolted on and off.

Just thinking out loud here.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> So does the scr still stay in the exhaust, it is just not used? I believe only the dpf is physically removed, and the scr stays there and basically does nothing after the delete.
> 
> If so, I wonder how much of a restriction it will be, and if it would be worth it to have it removed, replaced with a piece of straight exhaust pipe, with flanges welded onto the exhaust system, new pipe, and scr, so that if it was ever necessary the scr could just be bolted on and off.
> 
> Just thinking out loud here.


You'd certainly remove a ton of weight, especially if you pull the DEF tank as well. I think someone on here did that. Given the DEF weighs 40lbs (just the fluid, not even counting the tank), there's a substantial reduction to be had.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

sailurman said:


> So, you do not care about other's health? That is what you are saying? Because Libertarians do not care about the environment??
> Anybody you care about have severe allergies or ASTHMA? Because if you do, you are literally jamming your arm down their throat and squeezing their lungs. But hey, if you want to spend $1227.60 to help make others suffer, that's on you. I just hope they enact Diesel emission inspections. Have a nice life.


Navy retired? Well the Navy burns massive amounts of diesel, NO DPFs. In fact I sucked down sickening amounts of diesel exhaust while on Submarines. A tiny number of Diesel cars without DPFs will make no measurable impact on emmisions. Oh, and I did have breathing issues and I'm not in the least concerned about a few deleted diesels.. now the jerks that roll coal and make huge smoke clouds, I fully support maximum punishment for those people.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MRO1791 said:


> sailurman said:
> 
> 
> > So, you do not care about other's health? That is what you are saying? Because Libertarians do not care about the environment??
> ...


You won't be able to tell this guy anything. He's got this holier-than-thou attitude with anyone who mentions the word "delete" and will try to accuse you of murdering people and baby seals and such with your little deleted 2 liter. People like this won't listen to facts or respect other people's decisions. They think that what they believe is the gospel and they'll just yell louder than you if you try to tell them otherwise. 

But I wouldn't even respond to him. It'll get this thread off track. He will respond back with another ignorant comment, and we will just ignore him and keep this thread going in the same direction as if he wasn't here.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

MP81 said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > So does the scr still stay in the exhaust, it is just not used? I believe only the dpf is physically removed, and the scr stays there and basically does nothing after the delete.
> ...


I agree that the weight savings from getting rid of that will probably give you even more of a mileage increase. It's already been proven that just the delete setup pushes the mileage through the roof, removing even more weight and restriction will only make it go higher.

Whenever I delete mine, I'll definitely do it. Shouldn't cost more than maybe 200 bucks to have that scr cut out and flanges welded on it and a piece of straight pipe bolted in there.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I would think replacing the systems in the exhaust with a straight pipe would also slightly reduce any kind of under-car wind resistance that they might cause, as well. However, I would believe that amount to be very, very small.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

The major difference with this tune vs the other ones offered by Fleece is that it actually shuts down the DPF, DEF, and EGR systems. Essentially, as I understand it, after the install I'll have pure air coming in, mixed with fuel, and then burned, with the exhaust gasses going straight out the tail pipe with no mechanisms to restrict. That's why it costs so much, and is "race only". That's also why I'm a big fan of this setup, since we really don't have the technology to implement safe, effective DPF systems yet (look up the Ford 6.4L diesel, and how it would melt the turbos and last 2 cylinders during regen mode). Puking fuel into the last cylinder to burn off soot a) doesn't make a lot of environmental sense, and b) is pushing the metals in the piston and block, as well as in the turbo, way past what they should if you want a long-living Cruze. I know several members have hit 200K miles, but again, I believe this is the least of 2 evils. 

The weight savings should be pretty substantial. I do plan on replacing the DEF tank with a spare donut tire once I move this spring. I won't be throwing away or selling the emissions parts, in the event I ever need to put them back on, but at minimum, I do plan on a SCR and muffler delete. Diesels LOVE unrestricted exhaust. Having tuned several Duramax motors with a $150 Diablo tuner before, I fully expect to see the 70 HP gains that Fleece advertises. Can't wait for the install! Car is still under warranty at 55K miles, but it's already starting to display the emissions gremlins.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Aranarth said:


> Hi Sailurman:
> He may actually be doing you a favor!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter
> ...


Thanks Aranath for that info. I will do a more in-depth search as that wikipedia source does not have a citation supporting the particulate size part of the article. But for now, with one being a known problem and the other being unsupported I maintain my Personal Opinion that emission control devices are reducing toxins from the pipe here in the U.S. where the laws are enforced. Removal of said devices increases those toxins. 
Some folks think that "Well, it's just one car and the impact is negligible." But if you look at the big picture where all these single vehicles are combined that footprint grows exponentially. 

I have no issues with performance tuning a vehicle to it's maximum potential while maintaining the integrity of the emissions control devices of the vehicle. 

Again, thanks for the valuable input.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

sailurman said:


> Aranarth said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Sailurman:
> ...


This is a much more reasonable response than the one from earlier in this thread. People can disagree without one needing to push their specific viewpoint as the only acceptable answer.


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

Well, I'm now much more seriously considering doing the tune and deletes. My car was in the shop a couple of weeks ago for about $2300 in warranty work. Two of the things that were fixed were emissions related. NOx sensor (granted that was a recall) and DEF tank was replaced as the heater went. Today, while driving down the highway the check engine light came back on. I may call around to see what the cost would be to have the down pipe installed.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Isn't there a software update for the Def tank where it changes the good values of the resistor or something? I figured the heaters didn't actually die that often and it was just in need of that update.

In other news I too would like the delete tune but can't bring myself to do it when I'm trouble free


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> Well, I'm now much more seriously considering doing the tune and deletes. My car was in the shop a couple of weeks ago for about $2300 in warranty work. Two of the things that were fixed were emissions related. NOx sensor (granted that was a recall) and DEF tank was replaced as the heater went. Today, while driving down the highway the check engine light came back on. I may call around to see what the cost would be to have the down pipe installed.


I'd be shocked if it was terribly expensive. It's an easy install; one could do it alone in a garage with hand tools and, depending on hand size, a breakable wrist.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> Well, I'm now much more seriously considering doing the tune and deletes. My car was in the shop a couple of weeks ago for about $2300 in warranty work. Two of the things that were fixed were emissions related. NOx sensor (granted that was a recall) and DEF tank was replaced as the heater went. Today, while driving down the highway the check engine light came back on. I may call around to see what the cost would be to have the down pipe installed.



I'll
I'll be tackling it today (unless the weather is nasty), and will definitely try to get some sort of step-by-step done, with plenty of pics.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

It's supposed to be 45 in Michigan today; hopefully it's equally nice by you so we can see the install.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

After several hours of wrenching, the project is finally done. It's certainly not as easy as Fleece bills it to be, but with basic hand tools and a friend or two, it's definitely doable in your driveway. There are no check engine lights to speak of, and the only differences now are gobs more power, a transmission that seems confused by the power boost, a little bit more growl at low RPM, and no regen nonsense to deal with.

My immediate impressions: the tune is magical. It's surprising that Fleece can hack into something that sophisticated, and turn off every nuisance emissions control system, without a single glitch or hiccup. Not once was a diagnostic code flashed during the tuning or during the 20 minutes of driving I've put on since the install. Around town, it's much more lively off the line, and the freeway power is just ridiculous. You'll easily be thrown back into your seat, especially if you're more of a hyper-miler like myself. I was able to chirp the tires several times in 1st and 2nd gear, and the roads are bone dry.

The transmission is shifting harder, and seems confused at which points to shift at, but I'm guessing it will take a few hundred miles (and some fresh AMSOIL) to sort itself out. The car was in regen mode when I started the install, and it was nice to see 60 mpg on the freeway again, instead of the usual 30 it gets during regen mode. There's a bit more noise off the line, but nothing substantial.

One major issue did surface during the install, which wasn't directly related to our work: the number 3 injector is melting. Like the housing itself it melting, and you can see where soot has sprayed out of the cylinder onto the fuel lines. That's a major, major issue, but so far I haven't detected any issues from the car itself, other than the discovery today. Based upon my knowledge of DPF systems, my best guess is that the DPF is to blame, since fuel is getting puked into one or more of the last cylinders in order to be burned off in the DPF to cook off the soot. While that won't be an issue from now on, the damage has been done. Even if the injector is performing as designed, there's still evidence of a small pressure leak, which means less power and economy. 

Overall, I'd give the whole experience:

*3/10- customer service.* _Fleece seems to only want to sell the product, and has next to nothing to offer in terms of advice or installation help _
*5/10- ease of install. *_The installation itself was a breeze, but with no instructions to either remove or install the hardware, it wasn't without issues_
*8/10- value.* _Given the issues I'm already having with the emissions systems already, I'm extremely pleased to have all that gone, plus the added power_
*9/10- performance.* _Diesels respond so well to tuning, and I wouldn't be surprised if the car is making the 50-70+ HP they promised_

I will definitely update here as fuel and maintenance numbers come in, but I can give a brief tutorial now.

Tools you'll need: 


Jack\stands
Gloves
Assorted pliers, including Channel-lock pliers
Flathead screwdrivers
Assorted wrenches and socket sets, ranging from 7mm to 17 mm. 10mm and 13mm were in heavy use.
1 helper
Flashlight
Exhaust manifold paint


To start, I'd advise working on a cold car. My car was in regen mode when I pulled into my buddy's house, and given that it was 85 degrees and sunny, burned skin was a given. The turbo, DPF, and heat shield were all hot enough to cook your breakfast eggs on. Fleece didn't do so hot of job painting the downpipe, so I used a $10 can of high-temp paint at O'Reilly to fix their mistakes.




Jack the car up on the passenger side, as high as your equipment will allow for, and secure with jack stands. The parking brake will definitely need to be utilized as well. Using a 10mm socket set, take the upper heat shield off, as well as the plastic engine cover.
Pull the top two sensors from the DPF, and set these aside safely.
Crawl underneath the car, and using your flathead and 7mm wrenches, remove the entire plastic guard on the underside of the car. You'll need that room to pull the DPF out later on.
Working from below and in the engine bay, use your 10mm to remove the bottom heat shield. After this, use a socket (15mm I believe) to loosen the clamp on the turbo\downpipe connection.
While you're working on the bottom heat shield, take the 3rd sensor out of the DPF. The 4th sensor stays in, as there's really no way to remove it with the DPF still on the car. From the bottom of the car, use your pliers to bend the heat shield so that it can be pulled straight up and out of the engine bay, being careful to thread the 4th sensor's wiring harness through the hole in the heat shield. Make sure you've already disconnected the sensor's harness from the loom that runs along the back of the grill.
Now, you're ready to pull the 3 bolts from the exhaust pipe. They were rusty on my 55k mile car that's rarely seen road salt, but not too difficult. They're 13 mm, and the top one will probably take 3x as long as the other two combined.
Next, remove the two bolts anchoring the DPF to the oil pan (what a terrible place to connect the DPF, GM!!!).
This leaves two bolts that are anchoring the DPF to the engine block, through a horizontal bracket. DO NOT remove these bolts- it's a waste of time, as we found out the hard way. The DPF will only come off if you remove the actual bracket from the engine block. Each nut took about 10 minutes for the 3 of us, so be patient.
With these last nuts off, your DPF is ready for removal. Well, almost. I was warned about two rubber vacuum hoses at the back of the DPF, and sure enough, towards the driver's side, you'll see two rubber hoses. These must be removed before the DPF can come off. It took some serious teamwork, but once the clamps come off, the hoses aren't too bad.
With the car jacked up as high as you can go (safely), pull the DPF down and out of the engine bay. Be careful since it's probably going to shower soot on you.
The installation will take 1\6 the time of the removal. Finger-tight the bolts on the exhaust flange down below, and connect the new downpipe to the turbo. That clamp will give you headaches, and it takes two people to open it up. After fighting with it for a while, we got it to fit over the turbo and downpipe, then tightened everything down.
The 4th sensor needs to be removed with a Channel-lock pliers (it's something like a 22mm wrench, so we just used the pliers instead of buying a wrench that big). Reinstall all the sensors, and remember to place the wiring back into the little clips and zip ties that GM uses on the stock setup.
Now that the hardware is done, reinstall the plastic shields on the underside, and lower the car down.
Tuning the car takes about 10 minutes, and was drama free for me. The AutoCal tuner is pretty low-tech, as far as user interaction goes, but it certainly gets the job done. After it's done tuning, fire up the car and check for leaks. I did notice a small exhaust leak at the turbo-downpipe connection, but that may be because the clamp was warped during the removal.


I took several pictures of the install, but it's pretty straightforward. Definitely not for beginners, but it was a great project for a lovely Saturday afternoon with a few good friends.

You can see the cleaned-up engine bay, as well as that cooked injector.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Nice man. Definitely keep us filled in on how it does with a bit more seat time and your mpg gain.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Awww yeah. I can't wait to get one of these. What a huge unnecessary hunk of crap it gets out of your car. I'd still like to see an acceleration video from inside the car, something to compare the power to. I don't believe one exists for a deleted Cruze.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

0-60 would be nice


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

money_man said:


> 0-60 would be nice


I have half the video made already. Hopefully today I will get a chance to shoot the other half.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Win!!! Wish I wasn't so terrified of losing my warranty.


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## NHRA (Oct 12, 2014)

Nice write up and pictures. I would have suggested if i had read this earlier to have that pipe ceramic coated on the inside like they do to headers. Most places that do powder coating can do this, or can send it out to have done. It will last indefinatly and will keep all of the heat in the pipe.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

NHRA said:


> Nice write up and pictures. I would have suggested if i had read this earlier to have that pipe ceramic coated on the inside like they do to headers. Most places that do powder coating can do this, or can send it out to have done. It will last indefinatly and will keep all of the heat in the pipe.


This - it'll also help prevent against corrosion. 

My Cobalt's header is ceramic coated inside and out, and within 15-20 minutes of driving the car (hard), you can grab it with your hand and not have immediate third degree burns (or any burns).


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

money_man said:


> Win!!! Wish I wasn't so terrified of losing my warranty.


The only thing these warranties seem to be doing is replacing emissions components anyway lol


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

That's true. Think one new transmission in a ctd


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

Who did you talk to at fleece?


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Jdrury15 said:


> Who did you talk to at fleece?


How's your long term drivability with the delete


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Jdrury15 said:


> Who did you talk to at fleece?



N
Not sure, just was emailing back and forth with their sales email. They were knowledgeable enough, but having dealt with customer service for years, plus having my first career in sales, I was pretty disappointed. Dropping $1200 on what should be a $400 package is tough enough to swallow, but it's pretty plausible that one or two mistakes on the install or tune could brick the engine or ECM. I would have preferred more guidance. I'm still very glad I did it, but they don't do themselves any favors by selling a product with little to no customer service after you place the order.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Jdrury15 said:


> Who did you talk to at fleece?


How's your long term drivability with the delete? Long term mpg?


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

money_man said:


> Jdrury15 said:
> 
> 
> > Who did you talk to at fleece?
> ...


Haven't had any issues what so ever, no lights or anything. The wife drives it now since she is further from work than me now but when I do get to drive it, it reminds me how fun it is to drive.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

MP81 said:


> This - it'll also help prevent against corrosion.
> 
> My Cobalt's header is ceramic coated inside and out, and within 15-20 minutes of driving the car (hard), you can grab it with your hand and not have immediate third degree burns (or any burns).



What's that going to run me, to get the inner and outer parts of the dp powder coated?

Come to think of it, my bro-in-law helps run a big powder coating company up north. I may see if they could do it with a family discount...


Videos are on Youtube but for whatever reason they're not playing. Even got wheelspin on all of 1st gear today during the 0-60 run. Tootling along at 35 in 5th gear is netting 65 mpg. So far, so good. Transmission is calming down, but manual mode gives the best shift points right now. Turning the traction nannies off = instant light up when going around corners. I wonder what this motor could do with a manual, a bigger turbo and RWD...


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

starspangled6.0 said:


> Jdrury15 said:
> 
> 
> > Who did you talk to at fleece?
> ...


Emailing isn't the best way to contact someone, the sales email is very knowledgeable but is also where all the sales go thru including Web, wholesale, shipping, ect.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

It's still no excuse for customer service but next time If you have any questions call in.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

https://youtu.be/qg_klEpwQI8

1st video, done before the install. 2nd video, done this morning after the install. Rolling 0-60 plus a lil commentary with a semi-Canadian accent. I started at 8 mph in the first video, which results in a time of roughly 9.7 seconds to 60. On the tune, starting at 0 and going slightly uphill, my timer shows 9.2 seconds. That's a pretty good difference- not scientific by any means, but spending shaving a half to a full second off my time puts a smile on my face. 

https://youtu.be/Kj_yn_0N-lY


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Jdrury15 said:


> It's still no excuse for customer service but next time If you have any questions call in.




Gotcha. Next time I definitely will; wish I had known that before I ordered it.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

starspangled6.0 said:


> Jdrury15 said:
> 
> 
> > It's still no excuse for customer service but next time If you have any questions call in.
> ...


PM sent


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

Nice videos....if I was more mechanically inclined this is something I would consider.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

starspangled6.0 said:


> What's that going to run me, to get the inner and outer parts of the dp powder coated?
> 
> Come to think of it, my bro-in-law helps run a big powder coating company up north. I may see if they could do it with a family discount...


It's not expensive. My mid-length header was only $70.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Was planning on ordering a Fleece shirt and sticker over the 4-day weekend coming up, but it looks like they're already sending me one 
Kudos to Fleece.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

The team at Fleece is a great bunch of guys from Brayden and Chase Fleece at the top down to the guys in the shops and on the phones they are a great team that makes some incredibly great products!!!! They are the ones who did a lot of the work on the engine in my 353,000+ mile Duramax truck when we bought it and it is doing great now more than 10,000 miles later making over 500 HP and 1,000 lbs-ft of torque!!!

I hear that the Oz Tuning team that does emissions deletes is pretty good too!!! hahaha


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

Some more comments:
You should see a slight increase in fuel economy with the EGR valve turned off (maybe 5%): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation#In_diesel_engines 

I've forgotten who reported it but a consistent 67mpg has been reported at 60mph with high quality engine oil, transmission fluid, and over inflated tires along with a full delete. If you can keep your foot light on the freeway I would not be surprised if you got similar numbers while drafting behind someones pickup truck even doing 75.

If I watch the eco guage I can slide up behind someone's jacked up truck and see a sudden jump of 3mpg once I see that jump I try to maintain that distance behind him. I'm not riding his bumper but I am just a little bit too close. This is easiest in city traffic since everyone is close. Out in the country side its harder not to look like your drafting.


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Bradherr or jdrury both have had their deletes for a while.


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## BradHerr (Sep 29, 2013)

money_man said:


> Bradherr or jdrury both have had their deletes for a while.


I have roughly 50,000 miles on the delete tune. Zero issues from tune! 


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


----------



## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

BradHerr said:


> I have roughly 50,000 miles on the delete tune. Zero issues from tune!
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


And it sounds vicious!


----------



## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

BradHerr said:


> money_man said:
> 
> 
> > Bradherr or jdrury both have had their deletes for a while.
> ...


What's your avg over 50k?


----------



## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

I really want to do a turbo upgrade the factory turbo runs out of air on top and this turbo fixes that and drivability is still their. This is installed on our shops Cruze.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Didn't even know anyone has changed the turbo on a diesel cruze


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

money_man said:


> Didn't even know anyone has changed the turbo on a diesel cruze


Turbo and injectors are changed in the shops Cruze really fun to drive.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I feel like I did some searching and found one on a site they were turbo swapping...


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

So what are the numbers on that cruze your shop has?


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

money_man said:


> So what are the numbers on that cruze your shop has?


I believe it's around 250hp - 260hp to the wheels last time I looked at the dyno sheet.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hot **** - and what kind of torque figures? I'd imagine it would have to be close to 400 lb-ft at the wheels.

Were the injectors upgraded as well, or do the stock injectors have enough flow/pressure to handle the extra air?

I'd assume that fuel economy shouldn't be impacted much if you keep your foot out of it?


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

I'm not sure on the torque numbers but I would think that they are up close to 400, as far as injectors we have different sizes but in that Cruze it has 25% over stock and fuel economy is still great.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

Holy crap there are some v8's from the 90's that can't give you that...
Then you put all of it in a Cruze?! I bet it pulls!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Given how the stock CTD has a good amount of pull in stock form...one could imagine this is quite possibly a monster.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Transmission is stock and holding?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

money_man said:


> Transmission is stock and holding?


Speaking of - have there ever been released max torque figures for the Aisin?


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I read somewhere 320ft.lbs


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

money_man said:


> Transmission is stock and holding?


Stock trans still holding for a few year now.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Fleece sent me a little gift package today. Got a killer t shirt and a few decals. Had to add the sticker to the back glass ASAP.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

MP81 said:


> Given how the stock CTD has a good amount of pull in stock form...one could imagine this is quite possibly a monster.




I totally agree. If there was a shop out there that could upgrade the stock transmission (or better yet, do a manual swap), I'd definitely look into more power from the motor. But since I'm guessing that the driveline will become the weak spot even if the motor isn't maxed out, I don't think it's worth it for me.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Im definitely interested to hear torque numbers for this shop Cruze. Hp numbers are nice and all, but torque is what moves the car. To me torque is more important than hp. Plus if this car is making some huge amount of torque and holding up fine, it will give us a better idea of how this transmission holds up to bigger power numbers.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> Im definitely interested to hear torque numbers for this shop Cruze. Hp numbers are nice and all, but torque is what moves the car. To me torque is more important than hp. Plus if this car is making some huge amount of torque and holding up fine, it will give us a better idea of how this transmission holds up to bigger power numbers.


Fully concur.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

starspangled6.0 said:


> Fleece sent me a little gift package today. Got a killer t shirt and a few decals. Had to add the sticker to the back glass ASAP.


Package came pretty quick glad you like it.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

I'll see if I can get torque numbers tomorrow, and as far as trans parts I believe we have the connection to get upgrades, I know we have a set of Carrillo rod that we're made for us for when we need them.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

250hp and 350tq on the shop Cruze.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Credit Card in hand, I'm placing my order in the shopping cart right now :yahoo:


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Jdrury15 said:


> I'll see if I can get torque numbers tomorrow, and as far as trans parts I believe we have the connection to get upgrades, I know we have a set of Carrillo rod that we're made for us for when we need them.


Can you elaborate on this? Who and where would we go for a transmission build?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> So, you do not care about other's health? That is what you are saying? Because Libertarians do not care about the environment??
> Anybody you care about have severe allergies or ASTHMA? Because if you do, you are literally jamming your arm down their throat and squeezing their lungs. But hey, if you want to spend $1227.60 to help make others suffer, that's on you. I just hope they enact Diesel emission inspections. Have a nice life


get off the high hoarse. California and Arizona have strict emissions laws and yet soo much pollution. here in florida no emissions and lots of old polluting vehicles, yet rated top 5 in america for clean air.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> Some more comments:
> You should see a slight increase in fuel economy with the EGR valve turned off (maybe 5%): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaus...diesel_engines
> 
> I've forgotten who reported it but a consistent 67mpg has been reported at 60mph with high quality engine oil, transmission fluid, and over inflated tires along with a full delete. If you can keep your foot light on the freeway I would not be surprised if you got similar numbers while drafting behind someones pickup truck even doing 75.
> ...


lol i did that stock to lordstown. give me a deleted ctd and ill break 73


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

starspangled6.0 said:


> Fleece sent me a little gift package today. Got a killer t shirt and a few decals. Had to add the sticker to the back glass ASAP.


Hehe, we are realy the oposite you and i, lol.

I personaly have deleted any sign of what type of Cruze i have : No stickers, no emblems, nothing! 

I like sleepers and it seems my removal of everything and clean look realy works, because one time when i got stop by Cops, the officer said "Your chevy" not even knowing it was called a Cruze, lol.

Another funny thing, i did an Oil change at my GM dealer and mecanic didnt even noticed the downpipe! I asked him "Everything is ok, nothing abnormal?" He said "Nope, we dont see those Diesel often!" :signlol:

How it looks :








Btw i like the Delete + Tune a lot, infact it was a must for me, since im very heavy on the accelerator. Of course it would be nice to have more power!

Btw i did a 15.7 @ 92mph in the quarter with a lot of wheel spin using the stock tires, but the 92mph trap speed shows the power, since for a 3500lbs car it take about 200-210 crank hp to get that.

Anyway, welcome in the family!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Poje said:


> I like sleepers and it seems my removal of everything and clean look realy works


I purposely have left the "LT" badge/lettering on my Cobalt for exactly that reason.

When I still had stock suspension - and hubcaps - and stock exhaust - your only indication from afar was the gauge pillar. And since it's a ZZP, even that looks relatively factory.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Unplugged the EGR valve today (brown plug behind the motor, near the firewall) per the Fleece instructions. No change in motor behavior or any check engine lights.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Jdrury15 said:


> 250hp and 350tq on the shop Cruze.


Your shop is probably Fleece?

And do they think they gonna make a kit we could buy?


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

Poje said:


> Jdrury15 said:
> 
> 
> > 250hp and 350tq on the shop Cruze.
> ...


Yes and no plans on a kit just not enough demand but we can do it in house.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Jdrury15 said:


> Poje said:
> 
> 
> > Jdrury15 said:
> ...


What's a kit like your shop cruze look like $$$ wise?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Jdrury15 said:


> Yes and no plans on a kit just not enough demand but we can do it in house.


Overall, what parts were upgraded? Curious what kind of cost this all could be done for...


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

Turbo is about $1200 and not sure on how much the adapter is for the manifold to turbo.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Just got my UPS tracking and everything is coming tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be able to summons a buddy for help this weekend for the install!


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Man you weren't kidding about lousy paint job on the downpipe OP. Bare minimum to prevent rust after the assembly. I used some paint thinner and wiped it right off to bare metal and then I put 6 total coats of manifold paint on in about an hour. 3 of the black base and 3 of the protective satin clear coat. Looks pretty now. I am very happy someone took the time to make this though. I ordered on a Thursday and everything arrived on my doorstep on Wednesday. Not bad. 

Work was jam packed with other equipment getting worked on in other bays today so nowhere for me to do the install. I'm going to try this weekend. Think I can do it alone?


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Man you weren't kidding about lousy paint job on the downpipe OP. Bare minimum to prevent rust after the assembly. I used some paint thinner and wiped it right off to bare metal and then I put 6 total coats of manifold paint on in about an hour. 3 of the black base and 3 of the protective satin clear coat. Looks pretty now. I am very happy someone took the time to make this though. I ordered on a Thursday and everything arrived on my doorstep on Wednesday. Not bad.
> 
> Work was jam packed with other equipment getting worked on in other bays today so nowhere for me to do the install. I'm going to try this weekend. Think I can do it alone?


I'm about to find out myself real soon. Too bad most of the ctd owners are few and far between or else we'd tackle it together. 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

It's possible alone, but it's exponentially easier with 2-3 people. I'm very glad I had 2 friends and a long Saturday to try it out, especially since we were going blind without instructions. Keep us posted on your progress!

I haven't had a chance to do any testing for MPG, at least nothing regarding data tracking and my handy spreadsheet. However, driving the same routes that I always do during the work week, I can easily see that a) the gas needle is dropping slower than normal, and b) the instant econ readings are much higher than normal. Can't wait to see some real hard numbers after I've driven a few tanks. 

Also getting a nice diesel exhaust smell when I idle or back the car up into it's own exhaust cloud. I personally enjoy that smell... reminds me of the Duramaxes I used to have


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## Dieselfever (Feb 23, 2017)

I will be picking up my Cruze diesel Tuesday. It is a CPO with 11,500 miles and great extended warranties. I will be deleting as soon as possible. That is the best warranty that you can achieve with the Cruze. The CPOs have an extended 6/100k power train warranty. If my engine or trans blows up within the next 6/100k, I will tow it home, put the emissions and factory tune back in place, then tow to the dealer.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> It's possible alone, but it's exponentially easier with 2-3 people. I'm very glad I had 2 friends and a long Saturday to try it out, especially since we were going blind without instructions. Keep us posted on your progress!
> 
> I haven't had a chance to do any testing for MPG, at least nothing regarding data tracking and my handy spreadsheet. However, driving the same routes that I always do during the work week, I can easily see that a) the gas needle is dropping slower than normal, and b) the instant econ readings are much higher than normal. Can't wait to see some real hard numbers after I've driven a few tanks.
> 
> Also getting a nice diesel exhaust smell when I idle or back the car up into it's own exhaust cloud. I personally enjoy that smell... reminds me of the Duramaxes I used to have


Well luckily your write up eliminates a few steps of guesswork. I know I'm going to find the throttle valve plug before I do anything. I don't want to get it all together and not know where it is lol. 

I think I'm going to try to do it today.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

So I have everything off that needs to be off to get dpf out except the turbo camp, can't figure out how the **** to get it off. Any suggestions?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Nevermind got it. So far 2 and a half hours in, 1 nosey neighbor distraction and dpf is out. Not bad at all


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

And another successful install. Started at 1030 and was put back together by 130pm not bad at all thanks to your writeup I knew what to look for. All work completed by myself in my driveway.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Post a review. Maybe even a video. Did you leave the scr on? How loud is your exhaust now?

I'm living through you while I wait.  

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I did notice two things during the install. Small valve cover leak and transmission cooler lines have a slight leak around the metal crimps.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Has anyone installed the EGR block yet? I wasn't completely sure what to take apart yesterday and it's in a shifty spot so I just unplugged it for now.

Also next oil change is there any reason I cant just run some full saps diesel engine oil like 5w-40 Rotella t6 from walmart?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Aaron/VA said:


> Post a review. Maybe even a video. Did you leave the scr on? How loud is your exhaust now?
> 
> I'm living through you while I wait.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


Better paint job and installed!


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Has anyone installed the EGR block yet? I wasn't completely sure what to take apart yesterday and it's in a shifty spot so I just unplugged it for now.
> 
> Also next oil change is there any reason I cant just run some full saps diesel engine oil like 5w-40 Rotella t6 from walmart?


How many miles on your diesel? Good luck with your delete.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

41k


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

The Fleece car doesn't even have the blocker plate in, it's just tuned out and unplugged like ours. I wouldn't mess with it if they didn't.

That turbo clamp gave us headaches, too. I think we ended up reversing the nut on that bolt, and using it to pry the clamp apart (with screwdrivers and lots of colorful Army words, too  ). Glad to hear that you got it all figured out.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

let us know about your (delete) maiden voyage.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

oilburner said:


> let us know about your (delete) maiden voyage.


My usual city drive to work nets a 27 to 28mpg avg. Today it was 33.5mpg. My transmission shifts much better, drivability is greatly improved. It really holds 5th and 6th gears much better and doesn't pop out with the slightest increase in throttle like it used to. Power right off the line no lull and no lull after that first shift. It shifts quick and decisive and handles the new power just fine.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

sounds good K I suspect it is a little noisier......?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

oilburner said:


> sounds good K I suspect it is a little noisier......?


Slightly if you're standing behind the car but honestly not that much louder to me unless you really get after it then it's definitely got a lititle more of that diesel "groan" if that makes sense?

My biggest disappointment is that I waited this long to make the change. I bet I could do the total swap in under 2 hours start to finish if I did it over again. It's not bad at all. The first time for anything you take your time and make sure you don't screw anything up. The OP's writeup definitely helped me big time to not miss anything but I definitely did things in a little different order.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> The Fleece car doesn't even have the blocker plate in, it's just tuned out and unplugged like ours. I wouldn't mess with it if they didn't.
> 
> That turbo clamp gave us headaches, too. I think we ended up reversing the nut on that bolt, and using it to pry the clamp apart (with screwdrivers and lots of colorful Army words, too  ). Glad to hear that you got it all figured out.


I had this homemade pry bar that my great grandpa fab-ed at home years ago whose edges were round and it was the perfect size to pound into the clamp and wedge it open just wide enough to put the pipes together! 

Thanks gramps! Him and gram are still alive at age 90 married 72 years!


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

Glad you like the tune. Sounds like it worked out nice. Congrats to gramps & gram.


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## Ziegler (Feb 25, 2017)

2014 Cruze diesel 

Fleece Performance full emissions deletion kit with EFILive tuner.

Installed down pipe, did not remove egr and install block plate due to time and finances.

Questions: 
Can I still install the "CRZRACE" tune and be safe to drive, replacing the egr at my leisure? 

Is there a specific tune file by name for just installing the down pipe and not the egr block off plate? If so which different process do I follow? Process now is "Full1 STCKTUN" then the "CRZRACE" option. 

Discription for unplugging the "throttle valve":

"Do make sure you unplug your *throttle valve* (car will not start a second time if not unplugged before start up after tune)"

-When do I unplug it? Before the tune, after the tune? When do I plug it back in? After the tune, after the start? Also, would this be the throttle position sensor / motor? Every throttle valve I know of comes in a transmission.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Ziegler said:


> 2014 Cruze diesel
> 
> Fleece Performance full emissions deletion kit with EFILive tuner.
> 
> ...


Don't worry about the egr block plate. You can do it later. I'm gonna wait until I'm really bored someday to do it. Just unplug egr. Google cruze diesel throttle valve. It will give you a pic of the part. Its on top of the motor on the drivers side rear corner. The plug is underneath and a pain to get off. 

Install the tune after you unplug everything so you can just go and don't forget anything.

There is one tune and one tune only Cruzrace. Follow directions that came with it and you'll be good to go.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

Congrats. For the next CTD that deletes please take a lot of pics and do a write up like others. Lets make a real detailed step by step sticky. Ill delete after my next emission cel. Saving up now.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Slightly if you're standing behind the car but honestly not that much louder to me unless you really get after it then it's definitely got a lititle more of that diesel "groan" if that makes sense?
> 
> My biggest disappointment is that I waited this long to make the change. I bet I could do the total swap in under 2 hours start to finish if I did it over again. It's not bad at all. The first time for anything you take your time and make sure you don't screw anything up. The OP's writeup definitely helped me big time to not miss anything but I definitely did things in a little different order.


If you remove or drill the SCR it will be night and day difference for exhaust tone. My duramax screams without the cat and 5" turbo back.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

magnusson said:


> If you remove or drill the SCR it will be night and day difference for exhaust tone. My duramax screams without the cat and 5" turbo back.


Another when I'm really bored with nothing better to do project! Good to know.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Got mine off today. Not bad at all. Just waiting on parts now! The write up was great. Thanks!

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## renaissanceman (Feb 23, 2017)

So could a person that was so inclined gut the DPF and then run the fleece tune so that they could pass a visual emissions inspection?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

renaissanceman said:


> So could a person that was so inclined gut the DPF and then run the fleece tune so that they could pass a visual emissions inspection?


I don't see why not. The WOT visible smoke test unloaded would probably fail without a little adjustment though.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

renaissanceman said:


> So could a person that was so inclined gut the DPF and then run the fleece tune so that they could pass a visual emissions inspection?


expensive gut if you had to reverse.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

I never unplugged that throttle sensor (couldn't find the sucker), and it never was an issue.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> I never unplugged that throttle sensor (couldn't find the sucker), and it never was an issue.


For now...


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

What do you do just unplug it, tune it, then plug it back in? 

Do the instructions give detail of this?

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## renaissanceman (Feb 23, 2017)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I don't see why not. The WOT visible smoke test unloaded would probably fail without a little adjustment though.


Would it most likely fail with a stock-like tune? The reason I ask is that both diesels that I have in my fleet cannot make black smoke at WOT unloaded even if I try. 2004 Duramax (a couple years pre-DPF) and 1987 Mercedes 300D (about 25 years pre-DPF)


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

renaissanceman said:


> Would it most likely fail with a stock-like tune? The reason I ask is that both diesels that I have in my fleet cannot make black smoke at WOT unloaded even if I try. 2004 Duramax (a couple years pre-DPF) and 1987 Mercedes 300D (about 25 years pre-DPF)


Not sure.

Can anyone think of a reason I can't switch over to something off the shelf at wally world like Rotella T6 5W40 next oil change?


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Not sure.
> 
> Can anyone think of a reason I can't switch over to something off the shelf at wally world like Rotella T6 5W40 next oil change?


Yes, Rotella has higher sulphated ash, but if deleted, perhaps not a big deal, but it is also not a TRUE synthetic. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> Yes, Rotella has higher sulphated ash, but if deleted, perhaps not a big deal, but it is also not a TRUE synthetic.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I'm not worried about the true synthetic part. It's a great oil for the price and my car will be in the junkyard long before the engine is worn out.

Most of the deleted TDI crowd runs it with great USA results.

Just curious if there was anything I was missing. SAPS shouldn't mean anything now. In fact a regular saps oil should hold up even better since there won't be as much raw fuel getting into the crank and no egr anymore.

Edit: who knows read in 2017 T6 will be reformulated for new emissions regs. I still have a stock of Pennzoil ultra euro L dexos2 to use up first. Just testing the waters for when it runs out.

There's always Mobil 1 turbo diesel truck 5w40 too. I'm not opposed to specialty oils it would just be nice in a pinch to be able to buy over the counter now.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I'm not worried about the true synthetic part. It's a great oil for the price and my car will be in the junkyard long before the engine is worn out.
> 
> Most of the deleted TDI crowd runs it with great USA results.
> 
> ...


That is your choice, but it's inferior oil. Also, it's the wrong viscosity. Do you monitor oil pressure on CTD? It's variable, and it gets crazy high pressure at times, with the specified 5w 30 oil.. it's going to go even higher with 5w 40, which could be a problem. I've seen it spike up to just shy of 80psi! If you go full synthetic, real stuff, proper grade and spec, and even twice the cost, but it lasts twice as long, it's break even on cost. You could get twice the distance on Amsoil (also any dexos 2 is going to be real and full synthetic) and less than twice the cost, especially after a delete and no full dilution. It's up to you, but with these cars deleted or not, I'm not going up in viscosity with the way this car does oil pressure. I've used Rotella in my truck for many years, where it is the correct viscosity, only recently went Amsoil.. its hard to be sure it's the cause, but I've seen about a 1 Mpg increase on that average since the last oil change. That is huge for a 1 ton truck, 17.5 to 18.5.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## BradHerr (Sep 29, 2013)

money_man said:


> What's your avg over 50k?


 I am at 50.02 mpg over last 40,000 miles.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Just drove to work... Had to share.










Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Aaron/VA said:


> Just drove to work... Had to share.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! What did you usually get on the same run?


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

That very same run the first(and only) time I made the trip was sitting at 59mpg. So an instant 5mpg increase on that run. 

It will most definitely drop on the way home as I've always gotten better mileage driving to rather than from work. But none the less, anything over 50 is a win to me!

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Aaron/VA said:


> That very same run the first(and only) time I made the trip was sitting at 59mpg. So an instant 5mpg increase on that run.
> 
> It will most definitely drop on the way home as I've always gotten better mileage driving to rather than from work. But none the less, anything over 50 is a win to me!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


That's exactly what I've noticed. A solid 4 -5mpg gain


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## Dieselfever (Feb 23, 2017)

What is the consensus of those who have performed the delete on removing the egr and blocking?


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Dieselfever said:


> What is the consensus of those who have performed the delete on removing the egr and blocking?


don`t think its necessary because you disable the valve an it just goes along for the ride remaining closed.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I bought the block plates and might put them on this summer anyway.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

KpaxFAQ said:


> I'm not worried about the true synthetic part. It's a great oil for the price and my car will be in the junkyard long before the engine is worn out.
> 
> Most of the deleted TDI crowd runs it with great USA results.
> 
> ...


High SAPS content in the motor oil is better for the engine, but bad for the DPF. If you are no longer worried about a DPF than it would be better for your engine to find a high SAPS oil. That being said I am sure that the lower SAPS oil, when changed regularly still offer good engine protection. 

I have been running AmsOil 5w-40 with no issues even in -20F weather. From what I understand 5w-40 is better than 5w-30 for the turbo anyways.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Well, I did the delete and tune. Couldn't take all the CELs anymore.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

So I took it to Chevy and had them DELETE the updated firmware and reTUNE it with the old. LOL LOL LOL. Close to 2000 miles without another hiccup. :fart:


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

sailurman said:


> Well, I did the delete and tune. Couldn't take all the CELs anymore.


How's your first impressions?


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

money_man said:


> How's your first impressions?


I think he was joking, he just got the recall on the recall done lol


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

sailurman said:


> So I took it to Chevy and had them DELETE the updated firmware and reTUNE it with the old. LOL LOL LOL. Close to 2000 miles without another hiccup. :fart:


LOL! Good one!


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

One side effect from the EGR delete is that this thing is really cold blooded now. Even more so than it was. I drove across town yesterday morning and did my stuff then drove home and never reached full coolant temp.

It's a little late in the year now but I'm definitely going to fab up some kind of grill block for next winter


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## BradHerr (Sep 29, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> One side effect from the EGR delete is that this thing is really cold blooded now. Even more so than it was. I drove across town yesterday morning and did my stuff then drove home and never reached full coolant temp.
> 
> It's a little late in the year now but I'm definitely going to fab up some kind of grill block for next winter


I have noticed that mine takes a lot longer to warm up than when I first got it. I never thought that it was from the delete but it makes sense with the lack of exhaust flow through the EGR cooler. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

BradHerr said:


> I have noticed that mine takes a lot longer to warm up than when I first got it. I never thought that it was from the delete but it makes sense with the lack of exhaust flow through the EGR cooler.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I'd bet all the room for airflow around the downpipe instead of that fat dpf in there keeps the engine bay even cooler too


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

TDCruze said:


> High SAPS content in the motor oil is better for the engine, but bad for the DPF. If you are no longer worried about a DPF than it would be better for your engine to find a high SAPS oil. That being said I am sure that the lower SAPS oil, when changed regularly still offer good engine protection.
> 
> I have been running AmsOil 5w-40 with no issues even in -20F weather. From what I understand 5w-40 is better than 5w-30 for the turbo anyways.


You need to try AMSOIL's Series 3000 5w-30. It is the best diesel oil they have. Now that you don't have any emissions you can run it with no worries. With a UOA along the way you could possibly run it for 20k miles with no issues other than having to change the filter since it isn't capable of going the distance.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

I was thinking the other day about the results of the delete and tune. It's interesting to me that by removing the very parts designed to cut down on emissions and help the environment, we actually achieve a far more eco-friendly car, and one that's far more friendly on the wallet, too.

-My car is now a minimum of 10-20% more fuel efficient, so I burn far less fuel
-My car can now run 10,000 miles past the recommended oil change interval, cutting my oil use in half
-My car has a much better chance to shuttle me and my family around without needless costly repairs for years to come, allowing me to keep the car for years instead of buying another new car, thus saving enormous economic and environmental resources tied in the manufacture of a new car
-My own personal efficiency has increased, since my car is a) far more reliable, b) requires less maintenance, c) no longer requires DEF fluid, d) doesn't need as many fuel stops as before.


The road to **** is paved with good intentions, especially when other people tell us what to do. I believe what we have here is a heavy-handed approach from an agency far too big and out of control. I want the planet to be a better place for my kids. As I've learned the easy and hard way as a former business owner, and now in the military, incentives far outweigh results when compared to forcing people to do things through punitive measures. When GM sells a diesel car, the EPA swoops in, forcing people to buy technology that has been proven ineffective at best, and dangerous and wasteful at worst (research the emissions control system on the Ford 6.4L diesel!!). Thankfully, the boys at Fleece came up with a market-driven alternative, one that allows me to save money, waste less resources, and kicks the government out of a place they had no business being in the first place.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Let's not forget DPF's are full of rare-earth material who China is almost solely the biggest producer destroying entire communities near the mining operations. 

Like you mention no more DEF fluid. What kind of carbon footprint does producing and trucking a bunch of plastic jugs surrounded by cardboard that most people just throw in the landfill create?


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

EGR and DEF and Cats exist for very good reasons. Anyone who has been to Los Angeles or any big city will tell you that. It's even bad in Minneapoliis. No pollution is not localised. It rises in the upper atmosphere and spreads across the globe. Some of your exhaust is in South Africa.


Problem is we all live on this planet. Contrary to what the news tells you, the United states is the leader when it comes to saving the enviorement. Now if only everyone else followed suit. Namely China and and all the ships in international waters burning dirty diesel...


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Snipesy said:


> EGR and DEF and Cats exist for very good reasons. Anyone who has been to Los Angeles or any big city will tell you that. It's even bad in Minneapoliis. No pollution is not localised. It rises in the upper atmosphere and spreads across the globe. Some of your exhaust is in South Africa.
> 
> 
> Problem is we all live on this planet. Contrary to what the news tells you, the United states is the leader when it comes to saving the enviorement. Now if only everyone else followed suit. Namely China and and all the ships in international waters burning dirty diesel...


Doesn't a couple of those ships burning bunker fuel put out more emissions in a year than all the auto emissions on the planet combined?


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Doesn't a couple of those ships burning bunker fuel put out more emissions in a year than all the auto emissions on the planet combined?


Emissions is a strong word. As a whole no, they put out less CO2. But things like NOx and other big pollutants. Oh yeah, easilly.

You know how a deleted truck blows a little smoke when it accelerates from a stop light? Well imagine an engine, a thousand times bigger, doing that 24/7 for weeks on end.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Let's not forget DPF's are full of rare-earth material who China is almost solely the biggest producer destroying entire communities near the mining operations.
> 
> Like you mention no more DEF fluid. What kind of carbon footprint does producing and trucking a bunch of plastic jugs surrounded by cardboard that most people just throw in the landfill create?


Got a SOLID link to support the rare-earth material statement. And the DEF fluid can be refilled at a truck stop for less money and leaving no carbon footprint. Though timid people would probably die from fear at the thought of driving into a truck-stop between all those big stinky semis.:tututtongue4:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

sailurman said:


> Got a SOLID link to support the rare-earth material statement. And the DEF fluid can be refilled at a truck stop for less money and leaving no carbon footprint. Though timid people would probably die from fear at the thought of driving into a truck-stop between all those big stinky semis.:tututtongue4:


Yup!

DEF is made from 32.5% urea and 67.5% ionized water, that's it. Urea is a not mined, nor is a rare-earth mineral, haha.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

sailurman said:


> Got a SOLID link to support the rare-earth material statement. And the DEF fluid can be refilled at a truck stop for less money and leaving no carbon footprint. Though timid people would probably die from fear at the thought of driving into a truck-stop between all those big stinky semis.:tututtongue4:



*Here's the DPF patent.... *

https://www.google.com/patents/US20060245985

*World's largest rare-earth metal producers. No one is close to China. The US mined ZERO until an abandoned mine was recently opened up again. Edit: I didn't realize that mine also closed again already....*

http://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/critical-metals-investing/rare-earth-investing/rare-earth-producing-countries/


*Effects of rare-earth metal mining in China*

http://science.time.com/2013/12/20/rare-earths-are-too-rare/

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/rare-earth-mining-china-social-environmental-costs



And on the DEF thing, yeah you can fill up at a truck stop but how many people do? On my run this morning it was garbage day and I saw a handful of blue-def canisters laying out by the road at the houses with big diesel pickups in the driveway. I wanted to knock and tell them Supertech is the same thing for 3 or 4 bucks less but that's another story lol.


@*MP81*, you must of read someone else's post in another thread? Yours made no sense here. I didn't see anyone talking about a relationship between rare-earth metals and DEF or Mining and DEF.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I read it wrong, thought it said DEF, not DPF.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

starspangled6.0 said:


> I was thinking the other day about the results of the delete and tune. It's interesting to me that by removing the very parts designed to cut down on emissions and help the environment, we actually achieve a far more eco-friendly car, and one that's far more friendly on the wallet, too.
> 
> -My car is now a minimum of 10-20% more fuel efficient, so I burn far less fuel
> -My car can now run 10,000 miles past the recommended oil change interval, cutting my oil use in half
> ...


Emission output has nothing to do with engine inputs. 

Emissions are rated by weight per mile driven, not weight per pound of fuel used. Once you realize that, you made your car more economical but made it worse ecologically. 2 different eco's. 

You can have a big rig sucking in all the smog of LA and use so much fuel it has -2mpg but pump out 78% nitrogen and 20% O2 and it will be cleaner than your 60mpg Cruze diesel. 

Remember how much rare earth material was in the original catalytic converters? Now how big are they? Its part of the process of advancement. 

As far taking longer to warm, you gotta realize it would dump excess fuel to quickly warm up the DPF. Usually (I'm not well versed in the Cruze maps) at the end of the power cycle so it burns on its way to the turbo. This heats the engine up too. So no more DPF behind the radiator and I'm assuming they took the afterburner away in the maps. 

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

WOW great info. Learned a lot. If I delete it would be for two reasons.

Eliminate the possibility of a emissions related speed reduction and get a spare tire. If either things happens at the wrong time it could be a major inconvenience.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Here's two quick updates... 

I found out that if the roads are wet, I can easily spin the tires in 2nd gear 

Finally got a chance to fill up the tank with the tune on. This is my first full fill up with the race parts on, and the results were pretty impressive. Looking back at my records through August of 2016 (I had records since I bought the car a year ago, but mistakenly deleted them in August), the fuel economy I could expect on a tank like this, where I averaged 20 MPH, was about 28-30 MPG. Not too shabby... but on this tank, with an average of 20.6 MPH, I scored 36.7 MPG. I did not expect that big of a bump in fuel economy!


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

mkohan said:


> WOW great info. Learned a lot. If I delete it would be for two reasons.
> 
> Eliminate the possibility of a emissions related speed reduction and get a spare tire. If either things happens at the wrong time it could be a major inconvenience.


If the emissions system didn't render the car undrivable I wouldn't of shelled out the money to do this. The power is cool but in the end I'm more interested in function.

I also don't have time to be in and out of dealers. The 4 hours I spent installing will pay off in more ways than money....If I spent my precious time taking my car in for that recall just to have to take it in again I'd be livid. Figuring my hourly rate the time screwing with that would pay for at least a 1/3 of the delete right there.


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## wvpilot (Apr 2, 2017)

Ordering my kit tomorrow! Time to make the Cruze Great Again!

2015 CTD
2015 Ram 2500 6.7 Cummins (full delete and tune)
West Virginia


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Awesome! You won't be sorry at all. I'm on my 6th vehicle in the past 8 years, and this is hands down the most effective modification. If you are planning to own the cruze long term, it's definitely a wise decision. Keep us posted on how it goes!


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

And when you have a tuned diesel, you have to have a big ol' diesel exhaust tip! 











Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

Aaron/VA said:


> And when you have a tuned diesel, you have to have a big ol' diesel exhaust tip!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Personaly, i have nothing on the car that shows its a Diesel. I even restrained myself of putting Duramax badges on the sides, lol.


Its debadged and once i got stop by the Cops, i stoped my engine right away, i didnt want them to ear it was a Diesel.


I did other mods tho that are not noticeable from outside : http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...cussion/196210-small-changes-reduce-heat.html


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

See on one hand I said I wasn't going to do deletes anymore, on the other I'm really curious what people think of my tunes... The struggle is real.


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Beautiful Easter Sunday, so I got out and figured it the egr delete, very easy. The only thing I would recommend is getting some long hex/allen tools. I pick up a whole set at Wal-Mart for $15 a while back when needing a long hex to remove my AR grip. Didn't think I would use it ever again... I now find myself using that set of tools All the time!

Still not sure what the 3 set screws in the block off plate are for... ?













































Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

If the cap screws are in the intake plate I would say they are there for you to install a boost gauge and possibly water/meth and/or nitrous oxide injection. If they are in the exhaust plate I would say they are probably for various size EGT probes...

I'd have to see them more clearly and know where the plate is mounting to give you a better guess... or you could ask the guys at OZ what they put them there for to find out for sure.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

That's pretty nasty. I might have to look into that; Fleece told me that having it tuned and unplugged was as good as putting in a blocker plate though.

Went for my first legit road trip with this tune: got 52 MPG over 500 miles, and that was with a huge leak in the #3 cylinder. The copper crush washer failed spectacularly on the injector, and I ended up stranded with smoke shooting out of the cylinder, along with oil and fuel. This was an issue that I misdiagnosed prior to the tune install, so I can't see any connection to the tune and this issue.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> That's pretty nasty. I might have to look into that; Fleece told me that having it tuned and unplugged was as good as putting in a blocker plate though.
> 
> Went for my first legit road trip with this tune: got 52 MPG over 500 miles, and that was with a huge leak in the #3 cylinder. The copper crush washer failed spectacularly on the injector, and I ended up stranded with smoke shooting out of the cylinder, along with oil and fuel. This was an issue that I misdiagnosed prior to the tune install, so I can't see any connection to the tune and this issue.


I know I will be hated on for saying this, but that really doesn't sound like something that would have happened if the car were factory untouched.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

starspangled6.0 said:


> That's pretty nasty. I might have to look into that; Fleece told me that having it tuned and unplugged was as good as putting in a blocker plate though.
> 
> Went for my first legit road trip with this tune: got 52 MPG over 500 miles, and that was with a huge leak in the #3 cylinder. The copper crush washer failed spectacularly on the injector, and I ended up stranded with smoke shooting out of the cylinder, along with oil and fuel. This was an issue that I misdiagnosed prior to the tune install, so I can't see any connection to the tune and this issue.





diesel said:


> I know I will be hated on for saying this, but that really doesn't sound like something that would have happened if the car were factory untouched.


Having worked on and witnessed many diesel engine builds, I am 99.9% confident that the problem he described did not come about from the delete or the tuning, there is no way that tuning and deleting effects the seating of the fuel injectors. I would venture to guess that the injector had been incorrectly replaced/serviced at some point in time or it was improperly installed from the factory. The copper washer held as long as it could and eventually gave up and failed allowing fuel and soot to squirt out of the injector bore past the injector O-ring seals. I'm sure it is an oily mess, but it is not likely to be oil unless there are other issues with the cylinder such as a cracked or melted piston or extremely worn rings allowing tons of blow-by.

If I remember correctly the OP also mentioned he had seen evidence of this problem before he did the delete and tune, again proving that the tune and delete did not cause the problems.

diesel, I know you do not like tunes, deletes and other aftermarket performance items. But they do not cause every problem that owners have with their cars or trucks. as a "Super Moderator" you should be more responsible in giving your opinion and making suggestions that are biased and completely unfounded. I'm not trying to be a "hater" but you have on more than one occasion pointed to aftermarket products as a cause for someone's problems and that is not always the case and in many cases there are much more logical conclusions that can and should be drawn.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

^^^Thats also what I was pointing out earlier when I was asking how an owner would directly cause all the issues that guy in the first post had. There's really nothing that you as an owner can do that will cause your def injector to melt other than putting jet fuel or something like that in your def tank lol. Same thing with a delete causing an injector crush washer to fail. Highly unlikely.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

I'd be freaking out if I hadn't seen the blow-by on the injector prior to the delete install, but thankfully I did see it (wish I would have ordered new washers right then instead of getting stranded now). From the looks of what remains of the copper washer, it looks like the washer failed on its own.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

Chris Tobin said:


> Having worked on and witnessed many diesel engine builds, I am 99.9% confident that the problem he described did not come about from the delete or the tuning, there is no way that tuning and deleting effects the seating of the fuel injectors. I would venture to guess that the injector had been incorrectly replaced/serviced at some point in time or it was improperly installed from the factory. The copper washer held as long as it could and eventually gave up and failed allowing fuel and soot to squirt out of the injector bore past the injector O-ring seals. I'm sure it is an oily mess, but it is not likely to be oil unless there are other issues with the cylinder such as a cracked or melted piston or extremely worn rings allowing tons of blow-by.
> 
> If I remember correctly the OP also mentioned he had seen evidence of this problem before he did the delete and tune, again proving that the tune and delete did not cause the problems.
> 
> diesel, I know you do not like tunes, deletes and other aftermarket performance items. But they do not cause every problem that owners have with their cars or trucks. as a "Super Moderator" you should be more responsible in giving your opinion and making suggestions that are biased and completely unfounded. I'm not trying to be a "hater" but you have on more than one occasion pointed to aftermarket products as a cause for someone's problems and that is not always the case and in many cases there are much more logical conclusions that can and should be drawn.


agree!! tune an delete did not cause injector seal failure........as for Diesel, great guy to have on this forum


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> Having worked on and witnessed many diesel engine builds, I am 99.9% confident that the problem he described did not come about from the delete or the tuning, there is no way that tuning and deleting effects the seating of the fuel injectors. I would venture to guess that the injector had been incorrectly replaced/serviced at some point in time or it was improperly installed from the factory. The copper washer held as long as it could and eventually gave up and failed allowing fuel and soot to squirt out of the injector bore past the injector O-ring seals. I'm sure it is an oily mess, but it is not likely to be oil unless there are other issues with the cylinder such as a cracked or melted piston or extremely worn rings allowing tons of blow-by.
> 
> If I remember correctly the OP also mentioned he had seen evidence of this problem before he did the delete and tune, again proving that the tune and delete did not cause the problems.
> 
> diesel, I know you do not like tunes, deletes and other aftermarket performance items. But they do not cause every problem that owners have with their cars or trucks. as a "Super Moderator" you should be more responsible in giving your opinion and making suggestions that are biased and completely unfounded. I'm not trying to be a "hater" but you have on more than one occasion pointed to aftermarket products as a cause for someone's problems and that is not always the case and in many cases there are much more logical conclusions that can and should be drawn.


I will respectfully disagree with you. When one starts doing mods if something goes wrong it is virtually impossible to determine if it was do to mods or tunes or something else. When one doesn't do a tune or a mod then we know it is a component failure from factory. When one tunes or mods that adds an additional possibility of a cause whether you like to admit it or not. I am in the not mess with stuff kinda guy which is my personal choice. I don't have an interest in changing it. For those that enjoy making changes sometimes some unintended things can happen and to be honest there is no way to exactly determine the cause but in my opinion one can't rule out making mods, with all due respect it is just common sense.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> I will respectfully disagree with you. When one starts doing mods if something goes wrong it is virtually impossible to determine if it was do to mods or tunes or something else. When one doesn't do a tune or a mod then we know it is a component failure from factory. When one tunes or mods that adds an additional possibility of a cause whether you like to admit it or not. I am in the not mess with stuff kinda guy which is my personal choice. I don't have an interest in changing it. For those that enjoy making changes sometimes some unintended things can happen and to be honest there is no way to exactly determine the cause but in my opinion one can't rule out making mods, with all due respect it is just common sense.


Hes not saying that mods don't cause failures. He's saying that this mod didn't cause this failure. Which has been proven because the problem started well before the delete/tune install.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> I will respectfully disagree with you. When one starts doing mods if something goes wrong it is virtually impossible to determine if it was do to mods or tunes or something else. When one doesn't do a tune or a mod then we know it is a component failure from factory. When one tunes or mods that adds an additional possibility of a cause whether you like to admit it or not. I am in the not mess with stuff kinda guy which is my personal choice. I don't have an interest in changing it. For those that enjoy making changes sometimes some unintended things can happen and to be honest there is no way to exactly determine the cause but in my opinion one can't rule out making mods, with all due respect it is just common sense.



First of all, I am going to assume you were not there, so for both of us it's speculation. However, how can YOU equate a tune and/or emissions delete to a pre-existing condition with an injector washer? Clearly, as he stated, the injector was an issue before subsequent mods. Correlation does not always mean causation, nor does causation equal correlation. Sometimes it's just pure coincidence. 

Youve made it clear that you prefer not to mod your vehicle and that's your choice. However, modding is something that's been done since the earliest days of motor transportation and it will continue into the future. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the tunes that have been done here and applaud the innovation. It certainly has improved the breed from what I see. Just because you dont do it does not mean others should not.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

DslGate said:


> First of all, I am going to assume you were not there, so for both of us it's speculation. However, how can YOU equate a tune and/or emissions delete to a pre-existing condition with an injector washer? Clearly, as he stated, the injector was an issue before subsequent mods. Correlation does not always mean causation, nor does causation equal correlation. Sometimes it's just pure coincidence.
> 
> Youve made it clear that you prefer not to mod your vehicle and that's your choice. However, modding is something that's been done since the earliest days of motor transportation and it will continue into the future. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the tunes that have been done here and applaud the innovation. It certainly has improved the breed from what I see. Just because you dont do it does not mean others should not.


Just for the record, I didn't say anything bad about mod or delete, I just said it wasn't my choice. You guys are so darn sensitive about this issue. I really don't care what anyone else does to their car. good luck to you...


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

oilburner said:


> agree!! tune an delete did not cause injector seal failure........as for Diesel, great guy to have on this forum


He is a very great guy from what I have seen and read on here. But there are areas that he is not as well informed on and in those areas he should hold back in commenting rather than saying something misleading...

My 2 pesos 



IndyDiesel said:


> I will respectfully disagree with you. When one starts doing mods if something goes wrong it is virtually impossible to determine if it was do to mods or tunes or something else. When one doesn't do a tune or a mod then we know it is a component failure from factory. When one tunes or mods that adds an additional possibility of a cause whether you like to admit it or not. I am in the not mess with stuff kinda guy which is my personal choice. I don't have an interest in changing it. For those that enjoy making changes sometimes some unintended things can happen and to be honest there is no way to exactly determine the cause but in my opinion one can't rule out making mods, with all due respect it is just common sense.


Indy, it really isn't that difficult to determine failure causes in most cases. AND, in VERY FEW cases do standard aftermarket performance parts cause failures. Granted there are many times when owners/drivers push the limits too far with their vehicles when aftermarket components are installed causing damage to their vehicles.

A point to remember with both general replacement and performance aftermarket components is that the Moss/Magnuson (sp) Warranty Act sets out that a manufacturer MUST honor the warranty unless they can PROVE that an aftermarket part has caused a failure to a warranty item. In other words, despite what some salesmen and service writers/managers tell you, you will NOT void your warranty by installing aftermarket products on your vehicle...


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> He is a very great guy from what I have seen and read on here. But there are areas that he is not as well informed on and in those areas he should hold back in commenting rather than saying something misleading...
> 
> My 2 pesos
> 
> ...


Chris, this isn't really about warranty, that's another can of worms. All I stated was very simple. If you mod or delete and a component fails, it is possible that those changes may have influence over that failure. I would bet almost every manufacturer would agree with my statement. I am not saying in this case it caused this failure. I know you personally enjoy tinkering and mod your stuff, that's cool and I am happy for you. 

Ok you brought it up about warranty. I believe if you delete emissions on our diesel, in all likelihood you have deleted your warranty on the engine, assuming you delete while the drivetrain is under warranty.


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

As for mods voiding your warranty, they don't unless it can be proved the mod caused the failure. It says that in the warranty terms. Even using different than OEM fluids, could void your warranty if they proved that the non-OEM fluid caused the failure. However, some things will be a lot easier to argue that it caused the failure. For example, you're running way more boost on a tune and your turbo melts, the dealer is probably going to say your warranty is void.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> Chris, this isn't really about warranty, that's another can of worms. All I stated was very simple. If you mod or delete and a component fails, it is possible that those changes may have influence over that failure. I would bet almost every manufacturer would agree with my statement. I am not saying in this case it caused this failure. I know you personally enjoy tinkering and mod your stuff, that's cool and I am happy for you.
> 
> Ok you brought it up about warranty. I believe if you delete emissions on our diesel, in all likelihood you have deleted your warranty on the engine, assuming you delete while the drivetrain is under warranty.


Yes most manufacturers will TRY to weasel out of warranty coverage any way they can, and many dealers/service departments work along those lines as well. BUT, just because they want a way out, the mere presence of a tune or other performance parts do not give them a way to legally deny warranty service/claims just because they think or want it to be the case. The burden is on them to PROVE that an aftermarket part caused a failure. Many service guys try to scare customers into thinking that only OEM components installed by the dealer (in some cases they even say it must be the selling dealer) are the only components that can be used on a car, and that is just plain wrong!!! And, I hate it when stuff like that gets spread around...

As an example, if someone chooses to run a cold air intake on their car, then sometime later the turbo fails. It is pretty easy to analyze the failure, if the shaft seized and snapped it is likely due to poor oiling not the air intake. On the other hand if the filter is removed and rocks are sucked into the turbo and the compressor wheel is bent and missing blades it is safe to say that the owner caused the problem by removing the filter and throwing rocks into the spinning compressor wheel and the turbo damage/failure is on the owner. But neither of those problems with the turbo would have been caused by a tune so if the owner had a tune that would not void the warranty on the turbo...

Aftermarket parts are important, not just performance parts, but all aftermarket parts. Without them many people would not be able to afford to repair their vehicles especially once the warranty is over. The performance aspects are just icing on the cake, with performance parts anyone can take a run of the mill car and make it special just to suit their tastes, be it big wheels and tires, go fast goodies or a massive stereo system and it is all good!!! Our car culture runs on customization and performance, if we drill that out of people we run the risk of continuing the trend of becoming a disposable society and I hope our cars and trucks never completely get to that level!!!!


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

Anything that alters emission output = automatic warranty denial. No other way about it. 

Also, an injector washer is one part that should never fail regardless of what tune it has. That's a hard seal to break. Head gasket is easier. So most likely it was bad from the factory if it wasn't seated properly. 

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Chris Tobin said:


> diesel, I know you do not like tunes, deletes and other aftermarket performance items. But they do not cause every problem that owners have with their cars or trucks. as a "Super Moderator" you should be more responsible in giving your opinion and making suggestions that are biased and completely unfounded. I'm not trying to be a "hater" but you have on more than one occasion pointed to aftermarket products as a cause for someone's problems and that is not always the case and in many cases there are much more logical conclusions that can and should be drawn.





justin13703 said:


> ^^^Thats also what I was pointing out earlier when I was asking how an owner would directly cause all the issues that guy in the first post had. There's really nothing that you as an owner can do that will cause your def injector to melt other than putting jet fuel or something like that in your def tank lol. Same thing with a delete causing an injector crush washer to fail. Highly unlikely.





Chris Tobin said:


> He is a very great guy from what I have seen and read on here. But there are areas that he is not as well informed on and in those areas he should hold back in commenting rather than saying something misleading...
> 
> My 2 pesos


You know, it seems as if my tenure here may need to draw to a conclusion. The people I have helped through the years have seemed to vanish and it's nothing but people who are all gung-ho about deleting and flame me every time I say anything against what they believe. God forbid I say anything against a delete. My car went 202K miles relatively trouble free, fully stock, and there are just one too many people on here who can't stand that fact. It's really getting old. 

I am seriously considering taking a hiatus from moderating and from being on this forum. This has been building for a while and I think it may have just boiled over. 

It does not seem like the reasons I chose to be very active on the forum for nearly 4 years are in place any more, and that all I needed to say, has been said.


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

oldestof11 said:


> Anything that alters emission output = automatic warranty denial. No other way about it.


That is incorrect. Refer to the terms and conditions of your warranty. It clearly states that any modification that causes damage will void your warranty. They still need to prove the modification caused the damage. 



diesel said:


> You know, it seems as if my tenure here may need to draw to a conclusion. The people I have helped through the years have seemed to vanish and it's nothing but people who are all gung-ho about deleting and flame me every time I say anything against what they believe. God forbid I say anything against a delete. My car went 202K miles relatively trouble free, fully stock, and there are just one too many people on here who can't stand that fact. It's really getting old.
> 
> I am seriously considering taking a hiatus from moderating and from being on this forum. This has been building for a while and I think it may have just boiled over.
> 
> It does not seem like the reasons I chose to be very active on the forum for nearly 4 years are in place any more, and that all I needed to say, has been said.


The reason you are being flamed is because you offered an opinion and completely ignored the facts. The OP very clearly posted earlier in the thread that he had the issue with his injector prior to the delete/tune install. You then said the reason for the failure was due to the delete/tune. Read the facts before offering opinions. Don't play the victim because you didn't read the facts.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> The reason you are being flamed is because you offered an opinion and completely ignored the facts. The OP very clearly posted earlier in the thread that he had the issue with his injector prior to the delete/tune install. You then said the reason for the failure was due to the delete/tune. Read the facts before offering opinions. Don't play the victim because you didn't read the facts.


While that may be the case in this thread, it's not only this thread he's speaking about.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

diesel said:


> You know, it seems as if my tenure here may need to draw to a conclusion. The people I have helped through the years have seemed to vanish and it's nothing but people who are all gung-ho about deleting and flame me every time I say anything against what they believe. God forbid I say anything against a delete. My car went 202K miles relatively trouble free, fully stock, and there are just one too many people on here who can't stand that fact. It's really getting old.
> 
> I am seriously considering taking a hiatus from moderating and from being on this forum. This has been building for a while and I think it may have just boiled over.
> 
> It does not seem like the reasons I chose to be very active on the forum for nearly 4 years are in place any more, and that all I needed to say, has been said.


diesel, I sincerely hope you did not take what I said as an attack. You have a ton of experience with the Cruze especially the diesel with more miles than anyone we've heard of. My Cruze Diesel is still currently stock as well, but in the future mods will come, I'm sure of it as that is what I do for a living, but speaking with you helped me make the decision to go with a Cruze Diesel and the replacement for my 2006 Jetta TDI in the first place.

I for one, appreciate your input on this site and hope you will continue to share your knowledge in your areas of expertise. Just be aware of the tune/modification/delete bashing. Not all aftermarket performance items are evil!!!! Just like not all OEM things suck!!!


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Yeah I also said before that all of my debating is meant in a friendly manner. It may be hard to see over the Internet, but it's nothing personal. People can have differing opinions and just because they express them, doesn't mean that people are "flaming" or "bashing" each other. Diesel, I'm not bashing you and I dont expect you to think that me, or anyone else on here are.


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## Sperry (Aug 3, 2013)

Just about to turn 120,000 miles.. No issues with any emissions stuff yet. Probably just jinxed myself. There are a few of us out here that have no issues. That being said the delete still intrigues me and could still happen


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2017)

Does anyone know if with the delete the emissions readiness checks are present?

Here in MA they just plug the OBDII in and make sure it shows readiness, no visual inspection.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I will take this opportunity to say thanks to diesel for all of his contributions. I probably wouldn't have bought the diesel without reading about his experiences. I have never met him, but I relate well to his thinking and experiences.

And just want to publicly say thanks.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> That is incorrect. Refer to the terms and conditions of your warranty. It clearly states that any modification that causes damage will void your warranty. They still need to prove the modification caused the damage.


You, sir, are incorrect. 

By altering anything for the purpose of removal of a component or to bypass said component without causing a CEL is a breach of warranty. According to Chevy, it didn't leave the assembly line like that. 

Magnuss-Moss act was for people who weren't using OEM supplied maintenance items such as spark plugs, filters, or anything that came one the vehicle that wasn't replaced by the OEM supplied part.









Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It's right in the wording that it does not cover _damage by_ "Alteration, modification or tampering to the vehicle".

Which, therefore, requires that they *prove* said Alteration or modification caused the damage. If it cannot be proven, it cannot be used to deny warranty coverage. Simply modifying the vehicle does not deny your warranty, unless it caused the issue. I.e.: If your brakes go out, they cannot void your warranty because you have a Cold air intake.

This is very well known, it's not just something someone made up.


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

oldestof11 said:


> You, sir, are incorrect.
> 
> By altering anything for the purpose of removal of a component or to bypass said component without causing a CEL is a breach of warranty. According to Chevy, it didn't leave the assembly line like that.
> 
> ...


Thank-you for proving my point. That part at the top where it says "damage caused as a result of the following". It means they need to prove the aftermarket part caused the failure.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

oldestof11 said:


> You, sir, are incorrect.
> 
> By altering anything for the purpose of removal of a component or to bypass said component without causing a CEL is a breach of warranty. According to Chevy, it didn't leave the assembly line like that.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but you are wrong on this one. They may say it in the manual, but that would not hold up in court as it is in DIRECT violation of the MM Warranty Act. The ONLY way they can require the use of OEM parts is if they supply them free of charge, otherwise you are able to use them as you please and if there is a failure they must PROVE that the aftermarket part caused the failure.

The original intent of the MMWA may have been for spark plugs and other maintenance items, but it has been applied to aftermarket performance items as well for many, many years thanks in part to SEMA and others...

By that line of though from the manual you would void your entire warranty by using non-OEM windshield washer fluid, or wiper blades or any other non-GM part. The MMWA prevents manufacturers from this type of action and I am very surprised it is in print anywhere, but I guess it would make them more money as it would largely go unchallenged as most consumers do not know about the provisions of the MMWA.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

That's what I said about MMWA. Maybe I didn't word it properly. 

It is a cancer seeing people parrot something they haven't researched. 

You have a tune, and the dealer reports it, you're blacklisted. No warranty. 

I've seen it too many times on facebook and forums. People need to understand, you tune, its all in your hands. There is NOTHING the ECM doesn't touch, short of sheet metal. 

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

I am NOT anti-modding. The realism is that dealers can and will blacklist a deleted diesel. 

I am getting EFI Live and tuning the car myself. I also know its all in my hands the second I push ENTER. 

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

A tune will NOT get you no warranty. If you tune your car and then throw a rod or something from modified redline or something like that, sure they may not cover that under warranty. But if you go in there with a bad steering box, that tune obviously didn't affect that and the dealership isn't even going to look for a tune, and even if they know it's tuned, the tune didn't cause your steering to fail.

They may deny coverage on a failure that was caused by the tune. If you blow your turbo and they see that it was a tuned car, probably not covered. If your radio dies one day, that tune did not just void your warranty. This is the law. 

Oldestof11, the key words in that document you posted above, is "damage caused as a result of...". This spells it out in plain English right there.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

That's a lot of new material to read through in one evening! One thing I've learned a) as a businessman and b) being in the military is that there are the way the rules are _written_, and then there are the way the rules are _enforced_. I like to take a situation out of anyone else's hands and just shoulder the responsibility myself, thus eliminating this BS the dealers are renown for when it comes to aftermarket parts. I know for a fact that the Chevy dealer near my base would definitely fight the washer replacement if I took it to them, even though I've got photographs proving it was happening before I tuned it. All they live for is selling new trucks and Camaros to privates at 18% interest. Besides, now I know how to replace injectors, return lines, high pressure fuel lines, and copper washers on a Cruze diesel- how many people can say that?

Even though the M-M act may indeed cover me in this case, I also know my car isn't exactly what the EPA wants driven, since it's fully deleted. It's my car now, and no one elses, and everything I do to it is my responsibility. I like it that way. 

Kudos to USAA for giving me a free tow back to base. Kudos to RockAuto.com for offering 2-day shipping for the washer, too. Kudos to friends for offering mechanical advice, as well as a free loaner car so I wouldn't be stranded over the Easter weekend.

I should have it back and running in 24 hours. How normal it will run is anyone's guess... I cleaned up the injector cup as best I could, and scrubbed the injector with brake clean and a brass brush. A lot of carbon fell back into the cylinder, but when I poked a pick down there, it sort of sunk into the top of the piston, as if it was covered already in a thin layer of carbon. Perhaps a Kentucky tune-up will get it sorted out . My hope is that a) it will start, b) it won't stutter or skip at idle anymore, and c) that the crazy heat a diesel generates at combustion will self-clean the carbon built up in that cylinder. Pretty sure I caught it in time, but time will tell.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I will take this opportunity to say thanks to diesel for all of his contributions. I probably wouldn't have bought the diesel without reading about his experiences. I have never met him, but I relate well to his thinking and experiences.
> 
> And just want to publicly say thanks.


pretty sure he will be at Lordstown if your going.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

oilburner said:


> pretty sure he will be at Lordstown if your going.


I would enjoy attending at least the factory tour, but I have a new job and really don't want to take time off to go. Maybe next near.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

starspangled6.0 said:


> That's a lot of new material to read through in one evening! One thing I've learned a) as a businessman and b) being in the military is that there are the way the rules are _written_, and then there are the way the rules are _enforced_. I like to take a situation out of anyone else's hands and just shoulder the responsibility myself, thus eliminating this BS the dealers are renown for when it comes to aftermarket parts. I know for a fact that the Chevy dealer near my base would definitely fight the washer replacement if I took it to them, even though I've got photographs proving it was happening before I tuned it. All they live for is selling new trucks and Camaros to privates at 18% interest. Besides, now I know how to replace injectors, return lines, high pressure fuel lines, and copper washers on a Cruze diesel- how many people can say that?
> 
> Even though the M-M act may indeed cover me in this case, I also know my car isn't exactly what the EPA wants driven, since it's fully deleted. It's my car now, and no one elses, and everything I do to it is my responsibility. I like it that way.
> 
> ...


And should you PCS to a location with tight emissions standards (DC, Colorado Front Range, Northern Virginia, anywhere in California, etc.) your car will fail emissions. All these locations do visual inspections to ensure the OEM emissions system has not been tampered with before they even check the tailpipe. Any tampering with the emissions system is an immediate fail that must be repaired prior to retesting.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

obermd said:


> And should you PCS to a location with tight emissions standards (DC, Colorado Front Range, Northern Virginia, anywhere in California, etc.) your car will fail emissions. All these locations do visual inspections to ensure the OEM emissions system has not been tampered with before they even check the tailpipe. Any tampering with the emissions system is an immediate fail that must be repaired prior to retesting.


I'd imagine that his chances of just randomly picking up and moving to one of those few states is pretty small. Plus, the delete is reversible.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

IndyDiesel said:


> I will take this opportunity to say thanks to diesel for all of his contributions. I probably wouldn't have bought the diesel without reading about his experiences. I have never met him, but I relate well to his thinking and experiences.
> 
> And just want to publicly say thanks.


+1!


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

**** this thread became a btchfest. No one knows if the tune voids your warranty until you take it in and try to make a claim and it will surely vary from dealership to dealership! Facts people Fin A, nothing but fake news hahaha


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

magnusson said:


> **** this thread became a btchfest. No one knows if the tune voids your warranty until you take it in and try to make a claim and it will surely vary from dealership to dealership! Facts people Fin A, nothing but fake news hahaha


Perhaps a tune does not void warranty, but I think it is safe to say a delete DOES void your warranty


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

IndyDiesel said:


> Perhaps a tune does not void warranty, but I think it is safe to say a delete DOES void your warranty


No. It doesn't.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The emissions delete will void the emissions warranty as it substantially changes how the emissions system operates. Once done you cannot technically reactivate the warranty by adding the deleted components back. It shouldn't void the power train warranty unless it can be shown that the back pressure change has harmed the engine. Lower back pressure shouldn't be able to harm the engine. The problem here is as we have seen some dealerships will improperly attempt to void warranties.

The emissions delete also puts the car in a non-compliance with the FMVSS. If it doesn't create more pollutants at the tailpipe it should still be considered EPA compliant but there are some strange rules here about modifications to the emissions system being automatic failures. If it increases tailpipe emissions then it may fall out of EPA compliance as well, depending on the actual amount of the various emission components being emitted.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> No. It doesn't.


According to who? I think many of you spread beliefs that are NOT true and may do a lot of harm to folks who think you know what you are talking about. I am honestly pretty **** sick of reading about delete and mods, its not why I joined the forum. 

I think my time on the forum is done, I am not getting any enjoyment from this nonsense anymore. Good luck to you all.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

obermd said:


> The emissions delete will void the emissions warranty as it substantially changes how the emissions system operates. Once done you cannot technically reactivate the warranty by adding the deleted components back.  It shouldn't void the power train warranty unless it can be shown that the back pressure change has harmed the engine. Lower back pressure shouldn't be able to harm the engine. The problem here is as we have seen some dealerships will improperly attempt to void warranties.
> 
> The emissions delete also puts the car in a non-compliance with the FMVSS. If it doesn't create more pollutants at the tailpipe it should still be considered EPA compliant but there are some strange rules here about modifications to the emissions system being automatic failures. If it increases tailpipe emissions then it may fall out of EPA compliance as well, depending on the actual amount of the various emission components being emitted.


Yes this is correct. Deleting the emissions will void the emissions warranty, but the nice thing about that is that there is no more emissions components to fix under warranty at that point lol. But you seem to understand that doing that won't instantly void any and every bit of warranty on the vehicle like some people believe. There is so much misinformation in this thread it's unreal.

People, this is a thread about the delete. If you're sick of reading about deletes, don't go into a thread titled "emissions delete/race tune install". I think at some point people got fed up with all the incorrect information being spread around and crap being said for shock value. No, the delete didn't cause the injector washer failure. No, a delete doesn't instantly void your entire warranty on the spot. No, a delete is not killing people and the environment. 

Everyone has all the right in the world to not delete their car just like you have the right to if you want to. But the fact is coming into a thread about deletes and throwing around incorrect information about voided warranties, part failures, and one member on here has actually accused people who do deletes of murder and saying that he wishes our family members suffer from asthma and all that. That stuff is completely unnecessary yet seems like it's perfectly fine but when people start defending themselves and presenting facts, all of a sudden there is a problem.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> According to who? I think many of you spread beliefs that are NOT true and may do a lot of harm to folks who think you know what you are talking about. I am honestly pretty **** sick of reading about delete and mods, its not why I joined the forum.
> 
> I think my time on the forum is done, I am not getting any enjoyment from this nonsense anymore. Good luck to you all.


Indy, rather than leave the forum, don't click on the threads about deletes, then read and post multiple time in those threads and THEN complain about not wanting to read about deletes. There is a lot of valuable info on most forums, this one included. If you are disinclined to read or do a delete, then don't read about them or comment on them! Don't whine and complain about delete threads when you read and post in nearly every one of them... YOU chose to read the thread and YOU chose to post in the thread, no one made you do it!!! I really do not understand why you are complaining about something that you are choosing to do!!! Finally, don't get so worked up about a differing of opinion on something you apparently have decided against. I do seem to remember posts from you saying you were considering a delete a while ago at the peak of the factory emissions system is terrible hysteria on this forum...

Again, to void a warranty or more particularly deny a warranty claim the manufacturer would have to prove that the aftermarket parts CAUSED the problem. That is the LAW, not opinion. If you deleted your car you would be choosing to violate federal emissions rules/laws by tampering with emissions systems and that would be a personal choice. BUT, if the engine broke a rod or crank they would have to prove that the tune or delete CAUSED the broken rod or crank to not honor the warranty. I am sure they would try to deny, any you may have to take legal action to force the issue, but legally they could not deny the warranty claim unless they could PROVE that the aftermarket tune/parts caused the failure. Which they could not do, so they would be on the hook for a new engine to replace the one with a faulty rod or crank shaft.

Honestly I would not want to go through that potential legal battle, but by the letter of the law the warranty claim could not be denied.

Knowing I will be doing aftermarket performance items on my Cruze I went in to one of my local Chevy dealers and spoke with the service manager before taking my car there. I explained what I do and what we would be doing to the car and they were fine with it... They are also a dealer that upfits cars and trucks with aftermarket parts like wheels/tires, lift kits and other stuff like that on new vehicles before they even sell them so they are well versed in dealing with GM and aftermarket parts. And this could be a major key in weather a warranty claim is denied or not. If the service manager is a strict factory parts guy like you he will be more inclined to deny and "VOID" warranty for any aftermarket parts that are present, and with that type of person matters would need to be elevated to others such as regional managers and such... but it is better to develop a relationship and work things out in advance if possible...


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Please... the drama... that's not what I'm about at all. Can we just all agree that the work I did obviously didn't cause the washer to blow, and that more than likely a generic Chevy dealership will deny any warranty work now? 

Anyways, back to our story: washers came today, took me 20 minutes to install it and get the lines all reconnected. Still no start. 3 hours of cranking and jump starting bleeding the lines and several military words. We got it to start 3 times, for a total of maybe 10 seconds. **** thing just won't keep running, and it's dumping a grey\black smoke out of the exhaust. My hunch is that the injector went down as well. 

I did discover the cause that started this whole mess: the bolt holding the injector in was screwdriver loose, but it's something like a T45 hex head, and the other 3 are brutally tight. That sucker somehow loosened, the washer got loose, and then the **** thing won't start. I'm hoping the self destruction is limited to the washer and the injector (I also burned out the already dying battery). A really old Army diesel mechanic swung by to look at it, and after an hour he was only partially sure that it's the injector. Friday is the big money day, when it comes from Rockauto.com ($225 with 1 day shipping). Before I install it, I will pull the old injector, reclean it, and reinstall it using the proper T45 socket.

It only makes sense that it would be the injector, since it was running perfect before this happened. Would appreciate any other thoughts, but I'm really hoping it's just the injector. If I didn't have a wedding to pay for soon I'd probably use this kerfuffle to justify a new set of Fleece 100-over injectors, but at $2500 it's just a ridiculous price to pay.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

Bummer that it is still not running, I would suggest having the injector tested before replacing it.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm gonna need to buy a pair of white gloves for when I type a response on this forum anymore. For crying out loud.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Holy cow 2500 dollars for 4 injectors is insane. Hopefully the problem is just with that injector. Are there any codes or anything showing?


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> Holy cow 2500 dollars for 4 injectors is insane. Hopefully the problem is just with that injector. Are there any codes or anything showing?


A set of 8 NEW (and remember they are selling new not reman injectors) high performance injectors for a Duramax are around $5,000 so they are about the same price!!!

Remember diesel fuel injectors are COMPLETELY different than the little toys used in gassers!!! They are serious units that handle upwards of 30,000 PSI and pulse multiple for each stroke precisely delivering tons of fuel to the engine.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

justin13703 said:


> Holy cow 2500 dollars for 4 injectors is insane. Hopefully the problem is just with that injector. Are there any codes or anything showing?



Thankfully

Thankfully 4 stock injectors would run $800. No codes have been thrown, and the glow plugs seem to be cycling like normal.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

obermd said:


> And should you PCS to a location with tight emissions standards (DC, Colorado Front Range, Northern Virginia, anywhere in California, etc.) your car will fail emissions. All these locations do visual inspections to ensure the OEM emissions system has not been tampered with before they even check the tailpipe. Any tampering with the emissions system is an immediate fail that must be repaired prior to retesting.



If the tune is checking fine for emissions readiness and there's no CEL then how will they know. No states do a tail pipe sniff anymore as its all OBD2, so how will they know if there's a tune or even delete. Tailpipe looks no different on a tuned or deleted vehicle.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It will show in the ECM flash count, unless the tune does not up the counter.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

No worries regarding emissions for now, I keep it registered where there are no checks


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Dropped a couple hundo over at O'Reilly's for a new battery and a proper star head set. Pulled the injector, was just covered in diesel. Am suspecting it's stuck open; maybe it's a good thing it's not starting. Cleaned everything one last time, reinstalled. Got things to light off once or twice, but not good enough to start. I feel like 3 cylinders are running, and since #3 is out of action, it's enough to sauce the whole recipe. 

Pulled it again in preps for tomorrow's brand new injector install, fingers crossed. I'm sitting at around $600 for the injector, battery, washers, and assorted cleaning rags and tools. That's probably what I would have paid the dealer just to install a new injector, let alone a new battery.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

Check your oil now. Do a paper towel test. Diesel travels faster outward than oil

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Great idea, I'll do that now


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Oil level seemed a bit higher than yesterday but no separation on the paper towels


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Finally, an ending to this little adventure. That new injector solved all the issues. 2 rounds of cranking and if coughed to life. Sure was dumping a lot of grey smoke for a while, but a rip up and down the freeway cleared it right up. Local diesel mechanic looked at my old injector, and surmised that it got cooked due to the wild adjustments in pressure and difference in where the fuel was detonating. Glad it's all over.


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

Hey everyone, I'm in the middle of pulling out my DPF and have a few questions,

What do you do with vaccuum lines that went to the DPF?
What sensors get re-installed in the OZ tuning downpipe? I have 4 bungs in the pipe.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

All 4 sensors go back in in the order you pulled them out.

The vacuum lines... I just left them unplugged. Don't know if that's an oopsies on my part, but it's ran perfect for a few thousand miles like that.


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

How about the EGR? What plugs do I need to leave unplugged? I'm deleting it.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Look for a brown/orange plug on the side of the block facing the firewall. Unplug it... I packed it with grease to protect against corrosion, and secure it to something so it's not flopping all over the place.


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

Okay done, now, the oz tune directions are confusing. It says to unplug the tv for the first startup?


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

Okay, so the downpipe, EGR delete, and custom OZ tune are now completed! Plus I pulled the DEF tank and found that the DEF tank must have been leaking and was frozen in place with a thick buildup of urea............... like so thick I had to use a chisel and hammer and remove the larger chunks :signs006:

Some things I think would be useful for someone who is browsing this thread and wants to tackle this themselves:


I did this whole mod by myself, overall took about 5.5 hours with beer and lunch breaks
Get as much as you can done with the car on the ground, and then put it up to work underneath. It's a PITA to get to the engine bay with the car on jackstands
Spray the downpipe/turbo clamp and exhaust flange bolts with some PB blaster before you begin to work
Disconnect the battery before attempting to remove the EGR tube...if you wrench hits the starter bracket it will arch:th_SmlyROFL:
The vacuum hoses that are removed from the DPF don't get re-attached
There are THREE electrical connections that remain unplugged after flashing the car with the OZ tune, the EGR sensor that is directly on the EGR tube that you remove, the Brown/Orange plug right next to the EGR tube (I believe its the EGR actuator), AND the plug underneath the Throttle Valve!

I think that's about it, with the unexpected mess at the DEF tank, I didn't get a chance to take the car out today, so tomorrow morning we will see!


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

It's tomorrow morning, what's the update?? Lol

You show a lot of self control installing the delete setup and then calling it a night before a test drive. I woulda had that thing out for a rip even if it meant calling off work the next day lol


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

justin13703 said:


> It's tomorrow morning, what's the update?? Lol
> 
> You show a lot of self control installing the delete setup and then calling it a night before a test drive. I woulda had that thing out for a rip even if it meant calling off work the next day lol


I'm with Justin. What's the update


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

So I went for an early drive, and all I can say is wow. The power increase is obvious and the "butt dyno" shows a ton of extra torque. Transmission shifts are crisp and not sloppy and slow like the stock tune. If anyone is on the fence about spending this kind of money, do it. My car is a commuter, and the benefits of the OZ tune are very apparent.


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## Dieselfever (Feb 23, 2017)

Purchasing the down pipe and Oz tune is the best warranty you buy for the Cruze.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Wish it wasn't like $2k canadian


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

It makes a good commuter car into a great one. I see no reason why one can't expect north of 300K miles without much engine trouble, and those pesky emissions bugs are now gone for good. 

The motor runs cooler now, it uses less fuel, it makes more power, it never pukes fuel into the last cylinder to burn off soot in the DPF, and it uses cleaner oil (no more EGR).


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

money_man said:


> Wish it wasn't like $2k canadian


Yep, about 1600$ + install, but for me i had no choice, the stock car wasnt useable like i wanted to.


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

starspangled6.0 said:


> It makes a good commuter car into a great one. I see no reason why one can't expect north of 300K miles without much engine trouble, and those pesky emissions bugs are now gone for good.
> 
> The motor runs cooler now, it uses less fuel, it makes more power, it never pukes fuel into the last cylinder to burn off soot in the DPF, and it uses cleaner oil (no more EGR).


That's my next question, what oil is everyone running with this setup?


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/169-...npipe-egr-delete-oz-tuning-flash-install.html


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

That's awesome, that adds another one to the happily deleted crew lol. If I wasn't redoing my entire house I would have done it by now too.


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

I hear ya justin, it's not cheap! But for the potential increase in MPG and power, plus the reliability of NOT dealing with that horrible DEF system, it looks to be money well spent.


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

I will be adding another to the list tomorrow weather permitting. I'm on the 3rd O2 sensor and they want to replace that and put in the 3rd NOX sensor for $900. My wife finally agreed to the delete now that she has to pay the bill. Unfortunately the second 30000 miles weren't trouble free like the first. I love the car, she won't consider buying another Chevy again but she does intend to drive this one into the ground.


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## HarleyGTP (Dec 14, 2013)

TX CTD said:


> I will be adding another to the list tomorrow weather permitting. I'm on the 3rd O2 sensor and they want to replace that and put in the 3rd NOX sensor for $900. My wife finally agreed to the delete now that she has to pay the bill. Unfortunately the second 30000 miles weren't trouble free like the first. I love the car, she won't consider buying another Chevy again but she does intend to drive this one into the ground.


Good luck with the swap! I'm sure you're going to love it!


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

Well, that didn't go very well. Took my time and used most of the afternoon to get the DPF out. It was rough, but I didn't take a sawzall to anything even though I was close a few times. Anyhoo got it all out and installed everything, do one tee the 3 sensors and the followed the instructions and flashed the tune. 

Now nothing happens when I turn the key, I get 1 click that's it. My cheap meter says the battery is @ 12.15 volts and I'm not getting lots of clicks like I would expect with a battery in bad shape. Anyone got any ideas?


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## Aaron/VA (Oct 23, 2016)

Did you unplug the throttle valve? Don't think it's related if your car is not even turning over, but be sure to do that if you haven't. 

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

I did, that was one of the hardest parts. I ended up taking pictures with my phone until I figured out which connector it was and what I had to do to open it. This is a 20 min job wit a sawzall and some wire cuters, it takes a while if you want to be able to reuse everything that comes out. 

I'm guessing that the battery has finally given up now that I think about it. It had 3 starts to move the car 50ft and I flipped the key on in the middle of the DPF removal to check the mileage. That caused the fan to come on because all the sensors were disconnected and the only way to stop it was to unhook the battery. Add to that whatever drain it took to flash the ECM a few times and it just doesn't have enough left to start one last time. 

I've had this problem with a truck and large stereo before, you don't do anything that would cause the battery to drain but you never let it recharge and eventually it will catch up to you and you need a jump. I think that's what happened, I'll go get a battery tomorrow and see if that takes care of it.


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

Well the new battery didn't help, but I'm still thinking it was the right thing to do before a long trip considering the issues some folks have had with the stock battery. 

Its been raining most of the afternoon so I've been stuck inside trying to figure out the Alldata procedures to run down the problem and which ones I can do and which ones I don't have the tools for (reading codes beyond a simple OBD2 scanner). I've got a couple of things to test but I'm pretty sure I can rule out the motor locked up. 

I did notice that one the things to check was the negative battery cable. The car went to the shop 2 weeks ago because the radio would go on and of every so often. It never stayed off, but it seemed to be happening more frequently lately. It came back needing another O2 and NOX sensor and the battery cable wasn't done because they found no code. I cleared the slow O2 sensor a couple of times and they even OK'd it until they had time and a loaner was available. 

Im about 90% sure this is an issue with the car and not an issue with the tune. I'm really glad that I took the time to take everything out properly in case it has to go back in, looking back it's a 30min job with a sawzall and sone wire cutters. 

Ill report back back as soon as something changes.


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

So the car won't start after you flipped the key to "on" while doing the DPF delete? Have you already put the tune onto the computer?


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## rescueswimmer (Mar 28, 2013)

Almost sounds like a computer/Flash issue, or something is unplugged/plugged in wrong that is causing the computer not to crank the car.


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## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

HarleyGTP said:


> That's my next question, what oil is everyone running with this setup?


If I ever get around to taking mine off, I will be running AMSOIL's Series 3000 5w-30. It is one stout oil.


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

It's alive, and quite a bit more peppy!

Called and talked to Brayden this morning and this afternoon he and Corbin walked me through uninstalling and then reinstalling the tune, that didn't fix it. 
We talked about some other possibilities and things to check on my end before they tried to access it over the internet. I told them I would start through all the electrical checks and give them a call back tomorrow once I was hooked up to a lap top. 

I'm not sure what I did, checked all the plugs that were plugged and unplugged during the install and then started check voltage and fuses relays heading twords the starter. After I got done checking the starter relay according to Alldata I noticed that it has 4 pins and nothing to kelp it from going in in the opposite direction. I looked at the other relays and guessed which way it should go and then bumped the starter to see if anything had changed and it fired up. 

I'm not sure what I did, that was the first time I have located the starter relay. something went right and got connected and it started. I can't begging to say how happy I am. I have something wrong with the cable between the street and the house so my internet connection has been questionable. In the back of mind while I was checking fuses I was trying figure out how I was going to move the car a half mile to the neighbors house to use his stable wifi. I'm so glad it didn't come to that. 

As for the tune, so far it is simply amazing it's almost a different car, everything that I've read about it is true. I did manage to get a nice smoke trail going the first time I got to lay into it, I haven't managed to do it again even though I'm trying. Wife is happy and I'll have some more comments once I get back from Disney World in a couple of weeks.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Congrats, you just installed the best warranty you can buy on your CTD.


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

Quick update, I've got about 3000 miles on the new tune, the car is very fun to drive especially around town with out the accelerator nanny. Went to see the Mouse in Orlando and got 45mpg for the trip. Pretty good considering that was 4 days of city driving and the Cruze control was set between 75 and 80 on the highway. 

I did finnaly get my NOX recall notice, but I think I'm going to pass on it and enjoy what I got with the extra $300 I spent not letting the dealer 'fix' the problem.


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## kdsmalljr (Jul 12, 2016)

How much would you charge for this in house and how long would it take?


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

What part of the country are you in?


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## jakenkaiser (May 17, 2017)

i did this delete.... since i couldnt hardly find any videos on youtube i made some of my own. 0-80mph, exhaust sound after straight pipe, removal and instal of downpipe and tune, etc. heres some links. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOUWpK7l01U&list=PL_QV62IT66U9NzFZo4Dyw8dsDZ3iShBCF&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrmeJ-dXXgQ&index=1&list=PL_QV62IT66U9NzFZo4Dyw8dsDZ3iShBCF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybsxR7r18sI&index=2&list=PL_QV62IT66U9NzFZo4Dyw8dsDZ3iShBCF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKm4t4eP8eo&list=PL_QV62IT66U9NzFZo4Dyw8dsDZ3iShBCF&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8ym9kXqDs&index=4&list=PL_QV62IT66U9NzFZo4Dyw8dsDZ3iShBCF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NpxY9eku6Y&t=9s


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

jakenkaiser said:


> i did this delete.... since i couldnt hardly find any videos on youtube i made some of my own. 0-80mph, exhaust sound after straight pipe, removal and instal of downpipe and tune, etc. heres some links.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOUWpK7l01U&list=PL_QV62IT66U9NzFZo4Dyw8dsDZ3iShBCF&index=3
> 
> ...


Those videos would've been helpful when I was doing mine lol. Took me an hour to realize I had missed a bolt on the heat shield and that's why it wouldn't come off.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> Those videos would've been helpful when I was doing mine lol. Took me an hour to realize I had missed a bolt on the heat shield and that's why it wouldn't come off.


hows the heat situation going?


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

boraz said:


> hows the heat situation going?


I'll be completely honest. It absolutely sucks lol. Wouldn't have stopped me from doing the tune and delete, but it warms up noticeably slower than it already did. I even put corrugated plastic over the front opening to cover the radiator (which helped) but it's still very slow to warm up. Was driving home in -20*C the other day and it was probably 15 to 20 minutes of city driving before it really warmed up to the normal level. This is with keeping the fan on only the second setting. I find turning it past the third setting in the winter causes it to lose heat when idling. So, the heat situation is not great. Every other part of the tune and delete is fantastic though! I will at some point get around to doing a full review on it, but I haven't taken a decent highway trip since doing it.


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## jakenkaiser (May 17, 2017)

my deleted cruze td also takes its grand ol time heating up..... and even after it heats up, as soon as you come to a stop or idle, you can almost immediately see the temp gage going down. still blows warm air, but not like the hot air youd expect. as you said though, still wouldnt stop me from doing the tune!!


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

jakenkaiser said:


> my deleted cruze td also takes its grand ol time heating up..... and even after it heats up, as soon as you come to a stop or idle, you can almost immediately see the temp gage going down. still blows warm air, but not like the hot air youd expect. as you said though, still wouldnt stop me from doing the tune!!


i dont know where you live.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> I'll be completely honest. It absolutely sucks lol. Wouldn't have stopped me from doing the tune and delete, but it warms up noticeably slower than it already did. I even put corrugated plastic over the front opening to cover the radiator (which helped) but it's still very slow to warm up. Was driving home in -20*C the other day and it was probably 15 to 20 minutes of city driving before it really warmed up to the normal level. This is with keeping the fan on only the second setting. I find turning it past the third setting in the winter causes it to lose heat when idling. So, the heat situation is not great. Every other part of the tune and delete is fantastic though! I will at some point get around to doing a full review on it, but I haven't taken a decent highway trip since doing it.


does it ever get to previous operating temp as per the dash gauge?

my driving is HEAVY hwy...im hoping that will help

im surprised the rad cover works so good, thought the shutters would keep it covered til warm.

thx...i think youre the most comparably winterwise poster on here as me with the delete.


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

boraz said:


> does it ever get to previous operating temp as per the dash gauge?
> 
> my driving is HEAVY hwy...im hoping that will help
> 
> ...


Yep! Warms up to the same temperature as before (one tick off the middle) just takes an eternity to get there. 

I think heavy highway driving would help. It only really ever seems to gain heat if your on the throttle a bit, slowing down and idling it loses heat, but highway it always seems to maintain it, so if you do a lot of highway driving, I'd think it'd be fine.

Yeah, the cover seemed to make a decent difference. Could be completely psychological, but I think it's helping.

My phone says it's -23*C at the moment and feels like it's -31*C. I'm unfortunately getting to do a lot of cold weather testing.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

boraz said:


> does it ever get to previous operating temp as per the dash gauge?
> 
> my driving is HEAVY hwy...im hoping that will help
> 
> ...


Told ya before, nothing wrong with my car. It's how they are with a delete. You'll be fine where you are if you're on the highway. Coast down a hill and you'll see the coolant gauge drop back down to the quarter position pretty quick but you won't lose heat, it just wont be totally piping hot like at full temp and once you get back on the throttle it will go right back up to normal middle position.

I don't get as cold as you but did I mention we got 133" on snow already this season where I'm at in Erie Pennsylvania! 60" of it in 2 days


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Told ya before, nothing wrong with my car. It's how they are with a delete. You'll be fine where you are if you're on the highway. Coast down a hill and you'll see the coolant gauge drop back down to the quarter position pretty quick but you won't lose heat, it just wont be totally piping hot like at full temp and once you get back on the throttle it will go right back up to normal middle position.
> 
> I don't get as cold as you but did I mention we got 133" on snow already this season where I'm at in Erie Pennsylvania! 60" of it in 2 days


yeah i think you were the first i noticed with the heat

the guy i quoted is near me, so most similar climate wise....its got the worst heat of any car ive owned(3 xjs and a miata), theres enough, but just enough, didnt want to lose too much.

we just got 2' last 3 days, 3' total for the year...way down from normal....forest fires are gonna be tough again, wells will run dry

used to 8-24'


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## jakenkaiser (May 17, 2017)

Hello fellow Pennsylvanian! Im on the other side of the state, in Lancaster! I heard you guys got a 'few' inches up there... lol 


boraz, i have the same results as Cruze2.0TD stated. if youre not steady on throttle, temp gauge drops down to about 1/4. while on highway, usually stays steady 1 tick left of the middle.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

jakenkaiser said:


> Hello fellow Pennsylvanian! Im on the other side of the state, in Lancaster! I heard you guys got a 'few' inches up there... lol
> 
> 
> boraz, i have the same results as Cruze2.0TD stated. if youre not steady on throttle, temp gauge drops down to about 1/4. while on highway, usually stays steady 1 tick left of the middle.


i paid attention to heat and the temp gauge today on my -20 500 mile drive, couple mountain descents of several miles, the temp gauge would drop from the normal almost 6oclock position to 8 o clock, but heat FELT as hot as normal , then when descent ended, temp gauge went back to normal....so i guess theres plenty of heat prior to 'normal operating temp'


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## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

I drove/drive ECOs but played recently with my thermostat and did a lot of tests. I know it's gas but I bet these parts are very similar. A few observations: the thermostat opens only between 220-230F. No more thermostats that open at 205F! The thermostat is also controlled by the ECM, whenever this decides, it can open it more or less, based on other parameters. Don't trust the gauge, I tested 3 Cruze, getting data from OBD, and up to 180-180F, the gauge indicator moved when the temperatures went up. When it reached almost the 6oclock position, that's was it! It never went over that position, although my engine went up to 228F!. To get extreme, I changed the coolant & water mixture to 40-60 and after a few minutes it was boiling, without the gauge to move at all from the "perfect" position!
To summarize, I think your ECM is opening the thermostat way to early. I checked what happens if I disconnect the thermostat wires (plug) and the result was the fan running at maximum, and check engine came on.  A tuning that controls the thermostat may be the solution...


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

CRUISE-CRUZE said:


> I drove/drive ECOs but played recently with my thermostat and did a lot of tests. I know it's gas but I bet these parts are very similar. A few observations: the thermostat opens only between 220-230F. No more thermostats that open at 205F! The thermostat is also controlled by the ECM, whenever this decides, it can open it more or less, based on other parameters. Don't trust the gauge, I tested 3 Cruze, getting data from OBD, and up to 180-180F, the gauge indicator moved when the temperatures went up. When it reached almost the 6oclock position, that's was it! It never went over that position, although my engine went up to 228F!. To get extreme, I changed the coolant & water mixture to 40-60 and after a few minutes it was boiling, without the gauge to move at all from the "perfect" position!
> To summarize, I think your ECM is opening the thermostat way to early. I checked what happens if I disconnect the thermostat wires (plug) and the result was the fan running at maximum, and check engine came on.  A tuning that controls the thermostat may be the solution...


Diesels are cold blooded. They don’t heat up like gas vehicles. Especially with a delete. Even with the louvers shut, thermostat closed, and some people have even used a block off plate in front of the radiator, they still take a while to get to operating temp. Especially in extremely cold conditions.

It is strange to see your findings with the temp gauge though. I guess you can chalk it up to most factory temp gauges are pretty much idiot lights, basically telling you cold, normal, and hot, with not much in between.


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## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

justin13703 said:


> ..Even with the louvers shut, thermostat closed, and some people have even used a block off plate in front of the radiator, they still take a while to get to operating temp. Especially in extremely cold conditions..


I saw that and this is why I think after delete something is not right and the ECM is opening the thermostat way too early! In this case the water goes through the radiator and warms up very slowly. The check is simple, connect two wires to the thermostat plug, add a LED somewhere inside and watch when the ECM gives power to the thermostat to open it. Check the temperature when opens with a Bluetooth connected to the OBD and get the right idea about what's happening.


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## joshpjost (Jul 22, 2013)

Just got the race tune package in tonight, the downpipe finish looks much better than the early photos and descriptions of early adopters. 

Bought it from Oz Tuner. Was packaged well with protective foam and styrofoam. The instructions appear to be a little more step by step, but still not extremely clear.

I'd like to save a copy of the stock firmware on the ECM before I flash it with the Racetune. Does anyone have instructions to do this? 

Also, I see the following note halfway down the instructions: 

*NOTE: Once the Cruze Tuner is licensed, it can not be installed on another vehicle even if your vehicle is returned to stock.

*Am I just reading too far into this sentence? I want to ensure that I can return my CTD back to stock if I have to in the future. 

I won't be able to install the downpipe until next weekend. Anyone install the tune with the DPF still in the vehicle? I don't know if I can stare at that box for a week, it might be torture!


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## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

Dont run the delete tune with emissions still intact.

I believe Oz uses an EFILive AutoCal, dont they? If so, Im pretty sure there is a function in it to upload and save the stock tuning.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

joshpjost said:


> Just got the race tune package in tonight, the downpipe finish looks much better than the early photos and descriptions of early adopters.
> 
> Bought it from Oz Tuner. Was packaged well with protective foam and styrofoam. The instructions appear to be a little more step by step, but still not extremely clear.
> 
> ...


Yes you can save a copy of the stock file. I believe that’s acyually one of the first steps in doing the tune. 

The note that you have in bold bold is saying that you can’t sell that tuner to someone else and let them tune their car with it. It will be locked to your car’s VIN and that’s it. 

And definitely do not install the delete tune without removing the dpf. You run the risk of completely plugging your dpf as the computer no longer has the functionality to do regens or use the def system.


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## joshpjost (Jul 22, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> Yes you can save a copy of the stock file. I believe that’s acyually one of the first steps in doing the tune.
> 
> The note that you have in bold bold is saying that you can’t sell that tuner to someone else and let them tune their car with it. It will be locked to your car’s VIN and that’s it.
> 
> And definitely do not install the delete tune without removing the dpf. You run the risk of completely plugging your dpf as the computer no longer has the functionality to do regens or use the def system.


Installed the tune this weekend. Removing the DPF was pretty straightforward, after watching all of the previous posters videos and how-to. Two of the toughest tasks were the vacuum lines and DPF bracket. Ended up rounding the exhaust flange nut. It was rusted so bad a 1/2” socket would grab. Definitely recommend picking up new M8x1.25 nuts. 

Flashing tune was seamless. There is no “read” operation on the autocal tuner which leads me to believe that the original calibrations existing in the vehicle are lost. The first step is the Full1 Stocktune which flashes the firmware. I plugged the tuner into the computer after all was done and didn’t see a new “stock” file.

One other thing to note was a loud hum when I first turned on the ignition prior to tuning. I suspect it was something to do with the vacuum hoses? It didn’t go away until after flashing the StockTune. Anyone else experience this? 

EDIT: I took the advice of someone else and reversed the bolt and nut on the turbo clamp to expand it, worked pretty well. 

This cars a beast now...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

are you guys removing the SCR as well?? or leaving it in place.


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## Cruze2.0TD (Feb 12, 2014)

oilburner said:


> are you guys removing the SCR as well?? or leaving it in place.


I left the SCR in mine. Just took out the DPF, installed the downpipe, unplugged the throttle valve, installed the tune and fired her up. I think that's what most people are doing. I considered doing the EGR blocker plate as well, but everyone said that it wasn't necessary as the tune shuts off the EGR anyways.


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## joshpjost (Jul 22, 2013)

Cruze2.0TD said:


> I left the SCR in mine. Just took out the DPF, installed the downpipe, unplugged the throttle valve, installed the tune and fired her up. I think that's what most people are doing. I considered doing the EGR blocker plate as well, but everyone said that it wasn't necessary as the tune shuts off the EGR anyways.


Same here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dieseldr (Jul 28, 2018)

Daughter’s Cruze is at 60k miles now, not sure how many parts of the warranty have expired, but am guessing the emissions system is no longer covered.
So I looked into the OZtuner hardware and software. 
Seems like if we do all the deletes, and add a minimal tune, the Cruze might become a durable, reliable long term car for her.
After looking over this thread, seems like the hardware parts will be easy for us. 
The daughter and I like car wrenching projects.
After working on old Mercedes Diesels, I am convinced that Mercedes purposely made some parts almost impossible to access as revenge for us bombing Dresden.
The Cruze can’t be as bad.


So after reviewing this thread and some videos, the only question I have is about the tune method.
From what I have read, it looks like there is no way to revert to a stock tune, as there is no way to save that , correct?
So once flashed, there is no going back, right?
Dieseldr


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

dieseldr said:


> I am convinced that Mercedes purposely made some parts almost impossible to access as revenge for us bombing Dresden.
> The Cruze can’t be as bad.


After replacing the trans cooler lines, I'd be inclined to disagree. I cannot be certain, but it sure seems in some instances that the 2.0 LUZ is larger than the Cruze's engine bay, hahaha.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

dieseldr said:


> Daughter’s Cruze is at 60k miles now, not sure how many parts of the warranty have expired, but am guessing the emissions system is no longer covered.
> So I looked into the OZtuner hardware and software.
> Seems like if we do all the deletes, and add a minimal tune, the Cruze might become a durable, reliable long term car for her.
> After looking over this thread, seems like the hardware parts will be easy for us.
> ...


I think you may be right, but verify with the guys at OZTuner for sure. The only way to go back to stock may actually be a replacement ECU and reinstalling the exhaust components that may have "fallen off" the car during previous service work. hahaha


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone try. If you put the DPF back in and reloaded the stock tune that is saved on the tuner then it should work just fine.


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## dieseldr (Jul 28, 2018)

We have saved up some $$$ to order the
"EFILive AutoCal with Special Edition Custom ECM Tuning - Chevy Cruze Diesel (2014-2015)",.
Already have bought the pipe and EGR block-off parts. 
Do you guys know of anyone that offers a veteran's discount?

This is the error code that makes me think the DPF is getting clogged up:


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## starspangled6.0 (Apr 16, 2016)

Oz tuner did for me.


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## Cruze_Diesel (Apr 4, 2019)

Just wanna verify before I line up an order. Is it the “Special Edition” tune that is made to run with the downpipe? 

Here is the link I am using: https://www.oztuner.com/efilive-aut...-ecm-tuning-chevy-cruze-diesel-2014-2015.html

I had planned to run the car stock, but I’ve hit a countdown within the first 2,000 miles. Got me stuck out of town over the weekend, thanks EPA.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Yep, that’s the one. Used to come as a ‘kit’ with the downpipe and optional EGR block hardware.

You may have to fab a downpipe with the bungs, there have been reports recently that it’s no longer available.

Good luck.


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## Cruze_Diesel (Apr 4, 2019)

starspangled6.0 said:


> Oz tuner did for me.


I see your sig says that you are fleece tuned. Is the "delete tune" from OZ and Fleece pretty much the same or what? Thanks for all your posts btw, they have been really helpful so far. 




Rivergoer said:


> Yep, that’s the one. Used to come as a ‘kit’ with the downpipe and optional EGR block hardware.
> 
> You may have to fab a downpipe with the bungs, there have been reports recently that it’s no longer available.
> 
> Good luck.


Ok, thanks. I have found a couple retailers who still show the down pipe in stock as of yesterday.


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## Cruze_Diesel (Apr 4, 2019)

Update for anyone looking to do this. I placed an order through PDP, and the down pipe is back-ordered three weeks. :mellow: Better than not being available I reckon.


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## dasein (Mar 26, 2015)

Yes, I am also waiting on it. I asked them not to ship anything until it shows as available. Has anyone fabricated a downpipe or gutted the original one?


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## dasein (Mar 26, 2015)

Spoke to OZ this morning. They are about 3 weeks out, they will come back into stock.

Any suggestions on a muffler/resonator to replace the SCR with? I would like it to be quiet and efficient.


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## joshpjost (Jul 22, 2013)

dasein said:


> Spoke to OZ this morning. They are about 3 weeks out, they will come back into stock.
> 
> Any suggestions on a muffler/resonator to replace the SCR with? I would like it to be quiet and efficient.


I’m also looking to remove the SCR as well and sensitive to noise. Love letting people know it’s a diesel but don’t want to be the neighborhood punk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2017)

Have a question about the SCR removal:

I want to remove the SCR but there is the possibility I may have to put the car back to stock in the future. If I reattached the SCR in the future using sleeve clamps would the vehicle throw a code?


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

I’m starting the 3rd year with the delete and the SCR in place. Everyone I’ve seen with the SCR remover have done a complete pipe from the down pipe back. There’s not much to be gained from that, but it would allow you to put those parts back in. You could also have someone fab up a pipe that goes in the space where the SCR is. Any way you go you have to have somone fab up some piece of exhaust pipe, nobody makes anything you can buy and bolt in.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2017)

TX CTD said:


> I’m starting the 3rd year with the delete and the SCR in place. Everyone I’ve seen with the SCR remover have done a complete pipe from the down pipe back. There’s not much to be gained from that, but it would allow you to put those parts back in. You could also have someone fab up a pipe that goes in the space where the SCR is. Any way you go you have to have somone fab up some piece of exhaust pipe, nobody makes anything you can buy and bolt in.


Was hoping to do something like this: 

View attachment 270617


In theory this would allow me to remove the SCR and then put it back in if needed. I may just go for it and cross that bridge if I need to put it back.


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## joshpjost (Jul 22, 2013)

Do it! I’d be curious what it sounds like. Not sure what the muffling effects from the SCR are. Definitely notice on start up the exhaust sound before the turbo spools up, which muffles it. 


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The SCR does a large portion of the muffling - that's why the car doesn't require a muffler.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2017)

joshpjost said:


> Do it! I’d be curious what it sounds like. Not sure what the muffling effects from the SCR are. Definitely notice on start up the exhaust sound before the turbo spools up, which muffles it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I found this video of a deleted vehicle with the SCR removed:


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## joshpjost (Jul 22, 2013)

Alright Greg. Do it at the shop and next time I stop by to pick up my oil, ill have to hear her growl 


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2017)

joshpjost said:


> Alright Greg. Do it at the shop and next time I stop by to pick up my oil, ill have to hear her growl
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will do! I should have time later this spring to do it. Will let you know when it's done.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

MP81 said:


> The SCR does a large portion of the muffling - that's why the car doesn't require a muffler.


Whatever happened to the guy who cut the resonator out of his exhaust to make it louder?
Was he eaten by wild animals as he walked home?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Given that was the SCR, he's likely still stuck on the side of the road!


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## hbilow (Sep 17, 2016)

I was stranded with the "DEF Quality Poor" message and countdown in Texas last week (home is in Michigan).
I had the car shipped home without being fixed, and have been contemplating whether to fix it and wait for more issues in a few years, or delete it and live happily ever after. I'm leaning heavily towards the latter......

Anyway, lots of good info in this thread. I see that most have been leaving the SCR in place, but a few are asking about removing it and noise after doing so. I'm not completely familiar with what's inside the SCR, but it seems that over time it is bound to become clogged & be an issue, so I think removal would be the way to go. I would like to keep the car as close to factory sound levels as possible.

I am curious if the exhaust (mufflers) from a gas 1.4 or 1.8 engine could be fit into a deleted diesel. Has anyone studied the bottom side of both the gas and diesel Cruze? Obviously some fabrication would have to be done with piping, but if the mufflers fit and flow sufficiently, it might be an alternative to straight-piping and waking the neighbors.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

hbilow said:


> I was stranded with the "DEF Quality Poor" message and countdown in Texas last week (home is in Michigan).
> I had the car shipped home without being fixed, and have been contemplating whether to fix it and wait for more issues in a few years, or delete it and live happily ever after. I'm leaning heavily towards the latter......
> 
> Anyway, lots of good info in this thread. I see that most have been leaving the SCR in place, but a few are asking about removing it and noise after doing so. I'm not completely familiar with what's inside the SCR, but it seems that over time it is bound to become clogged & be an issue, so I think removal would be the way to go. I would like to keep the car as close to factory sound levels as possible.
> ...


my car went def quality poor and countdown on way home from work (500 miles)

dropped the car off at a dealer along the way, knew it was the def heater, thats free...but they couldnt get to look at it for a couple days so rented a car and drove home

they fixed the def heater and other free stuff but then told me a new dpf was needed, i said nope

took the rental car back, picked up the car with countdown still active...and just made plans to rent a uhaul truck and trailer down the road to drag the car home then delete it

with 40 miles left until slower than 55 iirc, countdown disappeared, car was normal again lol

drove it another 3000 miles to spite that dealership, then put the delete kit on it 1000 miles ago

ive read that one dude has 30,000 miles deleted and his scr still isnt plugged

i have a concern aboot it plugging up, but at least its not something to deal with immediately, we have time.


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## hbilow (Sep 17, 2016)

Dealership in Texas replaced the NOX2 sensor, but didn’t resolve the countdown. I pulled the plug on dealer repair while I waited 1400 miles from home, and had the car shipped home. 
Finally got it home, and took it for a drive yesterday while monitoring NOX1 & NOX2 feedback. It appears that things are working and NOX2 ppm values are in the single digits, so I’m contemplating either having my local dealer reset the countdown (just got into 55mph limit), or go for broke and drive the 75 miles at 55mph and see if it clears itself. I’d like to have it resolved for my own sanity, but I think a delete is in the future either way. Would still be nice to know that the parts I put on a shelf are good in case I need them in the future though.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

From my experience, the NOx2 sensor is a check sensor which won't ever put the vehicle into countdown.

However, should _another_ sensor put the vehicle into countdown (for instance, our particulate sensor, which is just past the NOx2 and is the last sensor in the system, failed and caused a countdown), the way to reset the system and remove the countdown requires a set of tests to be performed - with no other issues occurring.

This means that even though our NOx2 had been throwing a code, on and off, for basically a year or two (with no issues other than the light), it was now a holdup to clearing the countdown. Had to replace the NOx2 sensor in order to clear the countdown entirely, even though it was not the cause.

Sounds like something else is amiss.


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