# Intel gathering for changes to upgraded OEM Pioneer stereo system



## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

So I just took delivery of my Cruze (2014, 1LT w/ Pioneer upgraded system), and already the mod ideas are flowing. I don't think I'll do much in the way of mechanical as it's an automatic (WAF :/) maybe some lowered springs and slightly larger wheels and shoes to remove the gap.

As for the in car entertainment, the Pioneer system IS better than OEM stock, but only marginally as it leaves a bit to be desired (I find the rear 6x9 subs to be way too boomy).

I'm not going to be having many if any rear passengers (other than our 3 month old daughter, so music will be low when she's in the car), when the system is pushed, it will be when I am driving solo or with the wife when we have a baby sitter.

With that in mind, to save on budget, I'm thinking about ripping out (or at least just neutering and leaving the physical speakers in place) everything in the rear, and focusing on the front sound stage.

I like the idea of keeping the separate components (tweeters in the A-Pillars) and the center channel speaker. I will be keeping the stock H/U, once again mostly due to WAF, but also because I feel for the money that would be needed to be spent, I doubt I would get a better mix of SQ + integration than what is already there.

Is there any way with the OEM Pioneer H/U to add an extra video source, say for example I wanted to watch a movie on the touch screen and utilize the sound system over Bluetooth? If so, I would consider adding rear 6x9's for a surround sound effect, if not then no worries, not a deal breaker.

As for musical tastes, I don't have much use for non-musical bass, so I'll listen to anything and everything from Classic Rock, to Modern Rock, R&B, Funk, Hip Hop, Metal, Country and Chillstep. About the only true electronic music I'll listen to is Daft Punk.

Is there a way to get lossless audio fed through the OEM H/U?

Here's the list of components I'll be looking to get, subject to change based on recommendations:

1. Replacement front components (this will be for the mid bass and high end)
2. Replacement center speaker
3. Replacement 4 channel amp, possibly 6
4. Standalone sub 8-10" depending on musicality
5. Big 3 upgrade to ensure clean power (I'm aware of the fella on the forums selling his kits)

Budget: $1000 or less, depending on the complexity of the electronics/tie in to the on board computer I may do the install myself (but it's been since the 90s) or have a pro shop do it for me.

Ideally I'd like to be in the 350-500w RMS range for the system, loud enough to sound great when needed, but more so to maintain fidelity and sound quality at lower listening levels.

Thanks all, have a good'er


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Start here, and then we can discuss options. 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/36-audio-electronics/11204-sq-car-audio-thread-v2.html


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Start here, and then we can discuss options.
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/36-audio-electronics/11204-sq-car-audio-thread-v2.html


Thanks, honestly not sure how I missed that thread.

So after taking a read through, the budget on this is ridiculous, who knew so much SQ could be gleaned from raw drivers and a DSP unit?

Apparently I had been unknowingly brainwashed by the fine folks of every marketing department of every audio component manufacturer. I'm sure that's much too broad of a brush to stroke with, but I'm sure it holds true for the majority.

I figure for the minimal investment vs quality return, I'm going to go with the silver/flute combo, for < 100 for 4 drivers it's hard to argue with that, along with the recommended DSP setup. Quick question about the DSP what is the difference in this application between Revision A and Revision B, and should one be purchased over the other (if so, why?).

With your recommendation of yanking out the all of the rear components (or simply disconnecting them), I assume by inference that the center channel too will go unused.

That just leaves me with the question of what Sub and what Amp to use. Admittedly I didn't go all the way to the last page, as I figured all of the relevant article posts would be inserted on the front page of the thread.

I guess the other costs to consider are also the baffles for the mid drivers, sub box (I would need something low profile, similar perhaps to: Soundgateâ„¢ SubStageâ„¢ SCRU11 by Kicker Custom-fit powered subwoofer for 2011-up Chevrolet Cruze at Crutchfield.com without what seems to me as a ridiculous price tag.

I guess I'd need to source an LOC as well since I intend on re-using the stock H/U, and then the requisite wiring supplies.

Is there anything I missed?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't recall which revision was which, but one was balanced and one was unbalanced. I believe you want the unbalanced one. 

Welcome to the world of raw drivers. If you can read the specs and know how to design a system, you'll get 10x the value as you would with car audio drivers. 

Most people are brainwashed by big brand marketing when it comes to car audio. Welcome to the brighter side mobile audio. You'll be quite surprised at the results you are about to achieve for only a minimally higher invested effort. 

I would recommend you leave the center channel out, in addition to disconnecting the rear channels. I guarantee that you will not feel anything is missing. 

Looks like you got everything figured out. However, I recommend against the Kicker Soundgate setup due to a very poor value. If you want something that will fit inside the corner, I have a partner that builds fiberglass enclosures to the tune of $255 shipped. I have a sticky thread in this section on that as well. He does good work, and people have been pleased with the enclosures he's sent them. I've been taking the orders for those. 

Just how badly do you want to stay away from a rectangular enclosure in your trunk? We could expand your options a bit if you didn't mind a vented 10" enclosure. I have just the trick too if you're looking for an amazing SQ driver but want some deep, deep bass for the occasional synthetic songs. On that note, what music DO you listen to?

As for amplifiers, I've been recently fascinated by this beauty:

Hifonics Boltar 900W 2-Channel Mt. Olympus Series Amplifier

Class A/B amplification with 1000W @ 4 ohms. Surfboard amps for life! Should be enough power, don't ya think? You can get 700W @ 8 ohms out of it if you end up with a Dual-4 ohm sub. I do, however, recommend this subwoofer, either with the fiberglass enclosure or the vented one that I make:

TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I don't recall which revision was which, but one was balanced and one was unbalanced. I believe you want the unbalanced one.
> 
> Welcome to the world of raw drivers. If you can read the specs and know how to design a system, you'll get 10x the value as you would with car audio drivers.
> 
> ...


Sweet, I'll look up those pieces after I get back, just about to head out for a cruze :th_coolio:

As for the music I listen to, anything with a good hook. Mellencamp, The Tragically Hip, Metallica, Daft Punk, Tom Petty, Johnny Cash, Tool, Slipknot, Seether etc. If the SQ of the recording is good I'll generally listen to it. I don't discriminate against genre, I've even been known to rock some Oakenfold, Tiesto, Crystal Method etc.

I'm all over the board

I forgot to mention, the reason for my aversion to a full box is the need to constantly haul around a gigantic collapsible stroller, and the ever present WAF

Btw, are you advocating 2 2 channel amps, or the 2 channel amp in addition to the stock Pioneer amp? Is the OEM unit bridgeable on any of it's channels?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzenBC said:


> Sweet, I'll look up those pieces after I get back, just about to head out for a cruze :th_coolio:
> 
> As for the music I listen to, anything with a good hook. Mellencamp, The Tragically Hip, Metallica, Daft Punk, Tom Petty, Johnny Cash, Tool, Slipknot, Seether etc. If the SQ of the recording is good I'll generally listen to it. I don't discriminate against genre, I've even been known to rock some Oakenfold, Tiesto, Crystal Method etc.
> 
> ...


With the miniDSP, you will need a dedicated 4 channels of amplification. The amplifier I linked was for subwoofer duty, to be bridged. It is a bit steep on the price, but not for the power and quality. More just throwing it out there to see what you thought. 

Sounds like a sealed enclosure would be fine for you. You don't spend a lot of time in deep, nearly subsonic synthetic bass, but you wouldn't be satisfied with the Kicker sub either. 

WAF. Haha. I talk to so many guys who are unfortunately required to place that high on their priority list when designing home theater speakers. What a compromise. I'm blessed enough to have a wife that doesn't mind two 18" subs in my trunk.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

CruzenBC said:


> 2. Replacement center speaker


 SKIP THIS! Center channels ruin staging and imaging!


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

I agree with xtremes recommendations so far. I have a bad donkey MMATS SQ4160 4 Channel for sale, and I am willing to let it go super cheap!


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> With the miniDSP, you will need a dedicated 4 channels of amplification. The amplifier I linked was for subwoofer duty, to be bridged. It is a bit steep on the price, but not for the power and quality. More just throwing it out there to see what you thought.
> 
> Sounds like a sealed enclosure would be fine for you. You don't spend a lot of time in deep, nearly subsonic synthetic bass, but you wouldn't be satisfied with the Kicker sub either.
> 
> WAF. Haha. I talk to so many guys who are unfortunately required to place that high on their priority list when designing home theater speakers. What a compromise. I'm blessed enough to have a wife that doesn't mind two 18" subs in my trunk.


Okay, that's kind of what I thought but good to know. My intention is to install this in such a way that it parallels the current physical install, making it dead easy to go back to stock if I sell the car. Obviously front mids and tweets will need to be physically replaced, as will the stock LCD (unless I can re-use it), and the stock amp.

I've decided that I'm going to go for the whole 9, replacing the stock head unit with a RaspberryPi unit + mobile WiFi hotspot (so my phone can simply pair with bluetooth for hands free dialing) with an ACC relay that will auto boot/gracefully shutdown the unit.

As a developer by trade, I intend on creating a custom one off Android OS install specific to the carPC to run on the Pi.

I'll be outputting sound to a USB DAC (http://www.amazon.ca/Ultra-Low-Latency-Interface-Digital-Output/dp/B000KW2YEI caught my eye) then into the DSP, on to the amps and finally the speakers.

If possible I need to know if the LCD that comes with the Pioneer can be re-purposed without much if any physical modification -- I can't seem to find any specs or drawings or even photos of the internals... quite aggravating.



hificruzer226 said:


> I agree with xtremes recommendations so far. I have a bad donkey MMATS SQ4160 4 Channel for sale, and I am willing to let it go super cheap!


With the retail @ 900 on that, how cheap is super cheap?

In general, I've upped my budget to 1500 for the build.

Between the front stage (minus amp), sub stage (with amp), total gear is at the ~650 mark give or take.

So things left to shop for are

Carpeted corner sub enclosure ($225 + shipping)
4-channel SQ amp
Speaker Wire
Upgraded battery cabling
Various RCA cabling (USB DAC -> DSP -> Amps)
Raspberry Pi, Case and Boot/Shutdown circuit (~$100)

Taking into account the unknowns, it leaves me 525 for amp, speaker wire, battery cabling and interconnects. Battery cabling/interconnects/speaker wire I can see running me a good $100 which leaves about 400-425 for an amp, and thats assuming I even want to spend to budget 

Any 4-channel amp recommendations in the 200-250 range?

Does it make sense to run a power distribution block in the rear to keep the runs nice and clean for the two amps? How much are those running these days?


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

$350


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

You can retain the stock screen... unless you dont like it.


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> $350


****, that is pretty cheap, and falls into my upgraded budget numbers. How long can you hold onto that for?

With having just bought a new car, having a new baby, and just moving half way across the country, PLUS having to pay for airfare for my wife and daughter to join me in 2 weeks (had to start the job early).... cash flow has been choked out GSP style, gonna need a bit to recoup and get back on my feet.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

CruzenBC said:


> ****, that is pretty cheap, and falls into my upgraded budget numbers. How long can you hold onto that for?
> 
> With having just bought a new car, having a new baby, and just moving half way across the country, PLUS having to pay for airfare for my wife and daughter to join me in 2 weeks (had to start the job early).... cash flow has been choked out GSP style, gonna need a bit to recoup and get back on my feet.


I have had it for 4 years I think I can hold it for little while longer.


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> You can retain the stock screen... unless you dont like it.


Sweet, I like it just fine... can you point me to some online documentation on it, what it has for inputs etc?


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> I have had it for 4 years I think I can hold it for little while longer.


This is getting to Monty Python levels of epic ridiculousness (back and forth between to conversations in the same thread with the same person )

Yeah sounds good. I'll let you know once I've solidified everything that I'm doing and have put away the required funds.


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

CruzenBC said:


> Sweet, I like it just fine... can you point me to some online documentation on it, what it has for inputs etc?


http://www.cruxinterfacing.com/products/RVCGM-80M/index.html----expensive but is what it is


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> http://www.cruxinterfacing.com/products/RVCGM-80M/index.html----expensive but is what it is


Hmm, I've already got the rear backup camera...

It would probably be cheaper for me to swap out the LCD for an aftermarket one of same size, and just somehow convert the rear backup camera already installed to interface with the Pi...


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

I would recommend the jl clean sweep as it auto supresses all factory eqing , making it easier to eq your new set up. or just use pac piece.


last link I screwed up CRUX Interfacing Solutions ::: RVCGM-80M <-----expensive


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

A couple people on here installed a tablet.


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

hificruzer226 said:


> I would recommend the jl clean sweep as it auto supresses all factory eqing , making it easier to eq your new set up. or just use pac piece.
> 
> 
> last link I screwed up CRUX Interfacing Solutions ::: RVCGM-80M <-----expensive





hificruzer226 said:


> A couple people on here installed a tablet.


eh... for 400 bucks I'll just yank out everything to do with the OEM interface and just do complete custom. Parts are cheap if you know where to look.

Only thing I'll need to research now, is the ability to retain steering wheel controls, and if I can re-purpose the onStar GPS receiver and Microphone without voiding warranty or rendering it inoperable in stock form.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzenBC said:


> Okay, that's kind of what I thought but good to know. My intention is to install this in such a way that it parallels the current physical install, making it dead easy to go back to stock if I sell the car. Obviously front mids and tweets will need to be physically replaced, as will the stock LCD (unless I can re-use it), and the stock amp.
> 
> I've decided that I'm going to go for the whole 9, replacing the stock head unit with a RaspberryPi unit + mobile WiFi hotspot (so my phone can simply pair with bluetooth for hands free dialing) with an ACC relay that will auto boot/gracefully shutdown the unit.
> 
> ...


KNU makes some fantastic compression fitting distribution blocks for $20-$40 that you should take a look at.


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## CruzenBC (Aug 20, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> KNU makes some fantastic compression fitting distribution blocks for $20-$40 that you should take a look at.


So this is what I've scoped out so far, decided to just replace the entire system, HU and all. Already taking into account the extra parts needed, I'm 500 over my already upgraded budget so just decided to go with the mid range drivers and tweeters (what's an extra 100 if I'm already spending 500+ over...)


OutputFront MidsDayton Audio RS180Dayton Audio RS180-4 7" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm23570OutputFront HighsSEAS Prestige TweeterThe Madisound Speaker Store24590OutputSubwooferTC Sounds Epic 10" DVCTC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer1190190


AmpFront StageMMATS SQ4160 RMS 160x4 @ 4O (hificruzer26)MMATS Pro Audio | SQ41601350350AmpSub StageHifonics Boltar RMS 900x1 @ 4OHifonics Boltar 900W 2-Channel Mt. Olympus Series Amplifier1240240


SourceBrainRaspberry Pi Rev.Bhttp://amzn.to/1BLA6D115050SourceBrainCarberry w/ Harness, Case, OSCarberry Give power to ideas!1160160Paser SrlSourceUSB DACBehringer UCA202http://amzn.to/1q5uX2o14545SourceDSPminiDSP 2x4 Rev A, MiniDC, PluginMiniDSP 2x4 | MiniDSP1130130SourceLCD7" open frame HDMI LCD multi-touchShop | Chalkboard Electronics1125125


PowerDistributionKNU 2/6 way Ground Blockhttp://bit.ly/1lmwVgf
12525PowerInstallKNU Dual Amp Install kit 0GKolossus Fleks 0 Gauge Dual Amp Power Kit - Merchandise1130130PowerSpeakersKNU 50ft 12 Gauge OFC Kord UltraKord Ultra Flex 12 Gauge Speaker Wire - Merchandise13030PowerBig 3tecollins1 1/0 kitBig 3 Kits F/S (Order Form)19090


HousingSubCorner enclosure, carpetedChevy Cruze Fiberglass Subwoofer Boxes/Enclosures1225225HousingMidsMDF Baffles for mid drivers?1??HousingHighs??1??1950

Obviously I've not included shipping, or any taxes in this estimate... any chance you might fill in the blanks/make additional suggestions? If I could get everything to 1500 that would be great, but still to be around 2500 or under for a competition quality system... that's not bad imo.


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