# Is transmission flush required at 50K miles?



## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

Do it.

The factory fluid is garbage, and your shift quality will improve once you do it. IMO, transmissions are such a critical part yet often receive insufficient cooling and take a lot of abuse. The one factor to control wear is the fluid that you put in, so changing it will help improve the life of the transmission.


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## WhiteAndBright (Mar 4, 2013)

I had my factory fluid flushed at 36k and I am about to do it again at 65k.. I'm at 60k on the clock and I'm going to switch over to Amsoil.. If I would have known that Amsoil was so much better than what GM puts in I would have done it when I first got my car.. Search the threads on here you will see (proven by Xtreme) that factory fluid is garbage.. Buy the fluid from X and have it put in.. You won't be disappointed, your car will thank you later in its life!!


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

50k miles? On 2011 and 2012 Cruzes, this should be done at 20k miles! 45k miles is the "severe service" interval specified by GM, and 90% of drivers fall under that interval. The reason why you need to swap out the fluid so early is because GM put a corrosion inhibitor on the parts inside the transmission for those years (and maybe 2013 - I still have to verify), which rubs off and gets into the fluid and causes harsh and erratic shifting. It's also not good for your clutch plates. 

I am the resident AMSOIL dealer, and I can get you set up with some AMSOIL transmission fluid. It is guaranteed by AMSOIL for 2x severe service (90k miles in this case), will improve fuel economy, significantly improve shifting quality, and increase the longevity of your transmission. Read more here:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/113-...msoil-automatic-transmission-fluid-cruze.html


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## abhylash83 (Sep 17, 2013)

thanks for your input folks


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## abhylash83 (Sep 17, 2013)

how can you help me setup with some AMSOIL transmission fluid??


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Although I'm reading lots of responses......is anyone ever going to ask if this is a manual or not?.......I've read the OP's question three times and either I'm blind or it isn't mentioned.

To the OP.....If you have a manual unit most members with manual transmissions have found the unit responds favorably with a fluid change including the use of a synthetic manual trans fluid.

If you have a automatic, although it wouldn't hurt it, you are not due for any service of any sort unless you are pulling a light trailer, using your car as a taxi, things of that nature.
If you are simply a go to work/grocery store type, as the car was designed, the dealer is going beyond the requirements of your owners manual in an effort to increase their income.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

The ATF and Manual Trans fluid both show to be changed at 45K miles in the 2014 owners manual. Since the transmissions are the same from 2012 to 2014 I'd also recommend changing either at 45K.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

obermd said:


> The ATF and Manual Trans fluid both show to be changed at 45K miles in the 2014 owners manual. Since the transmissions are the same from 2012 to 2014 I'd also recommend changing either at 45K.


I'm seeing 97500 under normal use.......47500 severe, which is why I mentioned trailer towing/taxi service, type use.

I think the dealer is trying to take advantage of the OP.

Rob


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

obermd said:


> The ATF and Manual Trans fluid both show to be changed at 45K miles in the 2014 owners manual. Since the transmissions are the same from 2012 to 2014 I'd also recommend changing either at 45K.


They did make some changes to the 6T40 transaxles for 2014. I posted that here a few weeks ago. Got my information from folks that work at the GM Powertrain plant where they are built. They changed the ATF fluid pumping system to eliminate the Chinese made seperate pumps and have adopted the old system from the Hydramatic transmissions. If I had a 2014 6T40, I'd be putting the Amsoil ATF in it ASAP.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Robby said:


> I'm seeing 97500 under normal use.......47500 severe, which is why I mentioned trailer towing/taxi service, type use.
> 
> I think the dealer is trying to take advantage of the OP.
> 
> Rob


Any driving besides pure highway driving is considered "severe" service by these manufacturer recommendations. Stop-and-go driving, city driving, etc.

Waiting to near 100K to change transmission fluid is absurd. In most cars, it is brown and severely degraded by 50K.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> Any driving besides pure highway driving is considered "severe" service by these manufacturer recommendations. Stop-and-go driving, city driving, etc.
> 
> Waiting to near 100K to change transmission fluid is absurd. In most cars, it is brown and severely degraded by 50K.


I agree with you.....50k is my personal interval........however, the OP was told by his dealer that a flush is due at 50k.
It is not, and, if I may add, G.M. specifically recommends against a machine flushing process.
This appears to be one of those dealers looking for a reason to cut the cooler lines, install adaptors, and use the customer to help pay for the machine.
The OP's question, 'Is it required?' is answered by, 'It is not'.

But, for the purpose of potentally extending the transmission life beyond the 100k powertrain warranty, a standard drain and refill process would not be a bad idea at 50k intervals and, this service should not cost $199.00.

Rob


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> I'm seeing 97500 under normal use.......47500 severe, which is why I mentioned trailer towing/taxi service, type use.
> 
> I think the dealer is trying to take advantage of the OP.
> 
> Rob


If you read the definition of severe driving it covers over 90% of US drivers. As soon as you hit stop and go traffic in the summer heat you are in severe driving conditions.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Robby said:


> I agree with you.....50k is my personal interval........however, the OP was told by his dealer that a flush is due at 50k.
> It is not, and, if I may add, G.M. specifically recommends against a machine flushing process.
> This appears to be one of those dealers looking for a reason to cut the cooler lines, install adaptors, and use the customer to help pay for the machine.
> The OP's question, 'Is it required?' is answered by, 'It is not'.
> ...


Valid point. The owner's manual specifically says not to "flush" but rather to simply drain (gravity) and refill. These are definitely different operations. Jiffy Lubes in Denver charge about $60 for either - $199 is highway robbery.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

I'd still trust the dealer over Gypsy lube. If you ask them what the trans fluid is exactly that they use to flush and fill they will say "The exact same thing we use for power steering fluid." I'm aware and use the same trans fluid as power steering in my Subaru but I can identify this fluid as Subaru AFF+HP vs "Something that is red in color" 

I am also anti machine force flush vs doing 2 drain fills in a close time frame. I haven't had issues but had plenty of people who did have this service done and ended up rebuilding trannys. When it comes to GM and lifetime or don't touch till 100K, I usually change it out anyway. 

From the threads I seen the fluid in the auto does change colors early. It would be helpfull if we could see what it looks like before we pull a drain plug. The Manuals were kinda low on level filled was the autos also under filled when people went to change the fluids?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

My point about Jiffy Lube was to illustrate the price difference only. We have seen evidence that the anti-corrosion coating in the automatics will change the factory fill ATF a dirty grey really fast.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

obermd said:


> My point about Jiffy Lube was to illustrate the price difference only. We have seen evidence that the anti-corrosion coating in the automatics will change the factory fill ATF a dirty grey really fast.


 OK I was gonna say you get what you pay for when it comes to them.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Unclear as to whether the OP has an AT or an MT, why not specify, why guess?

AT only uses 4.2 quarts, Dextron IV is recommended. 200 bucks sounds awfully steep for four quarts of AT fluid and a five buck filter if that is even changed. 

Been changing my AT fluid for years, with a 16 quart system and 7 bucks for a new filter, getting expensive at four bucks a quart. Typical is to just drop the pan and only replace about four quarts, never found a dirty filter yet, check for debris on the bottom of the pan, a teaspoon is okay. For a flush to replace all the fluid, just disconnect one of the cooling lines, jury rig clear plastic hoses to it. One of the hose will expel fluid, other would tie up high. Let the engine idle and will flush itself while pouring in fresh fluid. Getting rid of the dip stick is cruel, need a syringe for that until fluid drips in your face. This cleans all the fluid including the torque converter. Other way is just replacing about 25% of it.

If the fluid is turning black, you need an external cooler. What you get is a joke, just a six inch long tube in the lower radiator cover, and not even sure if this is a cooler or a heater. When using the ETC to control the fans in a FWD vehicle, really a bad joke, fans don't even turn on until the cooling system was ready to blow its cork. Then you get constant thermal cycling between 195-240*F. And coupled with an aluminum head with a cast iron block, really a bad joke.

On vehicles like this, would mount a 160*F thermostat midway on the radiator tank so the coolant always stays at 195*F as the key fan control. Cruze doesn't need this with an electrically controlled thermostat, if working properly.

What is really needed for the Cruze AT is an aftermarket dipstick. Extremely important to check your level. For all you know, may be cheated from the factory. Really made this a pain in the butt, have to jack up the vehicle so its level, crawl under and remove that upper plug to check it. One key reason for wanting an MT besides being a lot more fun to drive and having some say in this matter.

Don't know anything about the Cruze AT, but if you are draining 4 quarts out of it, don't need a flush. And if you do not do it yourself, don't know the color nor what is being poured into it. 

Ha, my son called me about a muffler for his Sunfire, said NAPA wanted 60 bucks for it and his dealer 240 bucks. Said, just get it from NAPA, not planning on keeping that car anyway. While he was at NAPA recognized a guy from his dealer. Guess what he was buying? Mufflers.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> Unclear as to whether the OP has an AT or an MT, why not specify, why guess?
> 
> AT only uses 4.2 quarts, Dextron IV is recommended. 200 bucks sounds awfully steep for four quarts of AT fluid and a five buck filter if that is even changed.


Dexron VI.



> If the fluid is turning black, you need an external cooler. What you get is a joke, just a six inch long tube in the lower radiator cover, and not even sure if this is a cooler or a heater. When using the ETC to control the fans in a FWD vehicle, really a bad joke, fans don't even turn on until the cooling system was ready to blow its cork. Then you get constant thermal cycling between 195-240*F. And coupled with an aluminum head with a cast iron block, really a bad joke.
> 
> On vehicles like this, would mount a 160*F thermostat midway on the radiator tank so the coolant always stays at 195*F as the key fan control. Cruze doesn't need this with an electrically controlled thermostat, if working properly.










^Standard equipment. It also connects to the radiator to warm fluid, as it should.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Hmmm, seemed to have developed dyslexia. No I didn't, computer did. LOL.


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## RedChevy (May 22, 2011)

Last week I did a D&R on the A/T in my 2011.
I drained it cold on level ground in my garage and 4 qts. 12 ounces came out.
I replaced it with 4 qts. Dex VI and 12 ounces of LG red. So far everything seems fine.
With only 24K on the car I hadn't experienced any deterioration in shift quality (although I always 
considered this 6 speed A/T to be weird).

PS: I find it difficult to type on this site. I constantly misspell because letters that I type don't show up and the spacebar doesn't always 'space'. It makes it very tedious to type a post. I thought it might be my computer but it does it with my laptop too. It doesn't happen on any other site.
Does anybody else have this problem? What is the solution?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

RedChevy said:


> PS: I find it difficult to type on this site. I constantly misspell because letters that I type don't show up and the spacebar doesn't always 'space'. It makes it very tedious to type a post. I thought it might be my computer but it does it with my laptop too. It doesn't happen on any other site.
> Does anybody else have this problem? What is the solution?


Don't use Internet Explorer. That happens way too often, and on many sites, in that browser.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

RedChevy said:


> Last week I did a D&R on the A/T in my 2011.
> I drained it cold on level ground in my garage and 4 qts. 12 ounces came out.
> I replaced it with 4 qts. Dex VI and 12 ounces of LG red. So far everything seems fine.
> With only 24K on the car I hadn't experienced any deterioration in shift quality (although I always
> ...


Yes, it happens to me as well......no, I haven't a clue why.

Rob


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

RedChevy said:


> Last week I did a D&R on the A/T in my 2011.
> I drained it cold on level ground in my garage and 4 qts. 12 ounces came out.
> I replaced it with 4 qts. Dex VI and 12 ounces of LG red. So far everything seems fine.
> With only 24K on the car I hadn't experienced any deterioration in shift quality (although I always
> ...


"There are currently 4893 users online. 342 members and 4551 guests" could well be the reason, limited bandwidth and perhaps the reason for my dyslexia. This is the most busiest site I have ever visited. Also on a super high speed internet.

You also verified by draining that much fluid from your Cruze AT, no reason for a flush, just drain and refill it with whatever you like. Referring to Dexron VI or Amsoil. No experience on this issue. 

And the Cruze AT does have an external cooler? Good move, but with only a tad of over four quarts, really needs one.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

For those using any version of IE after IE 7 you need to add CruzeTalk.com to your compatibility site list. It makes IE respond to the site and any controls sent to IE as if it were IE 7.


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## abhylash83 (Sep 17, 2013)

So I decided to get the transmission fluid changed and today I came to the chevy dealership to get it done. I have been here since 8:30 in the morning and it's 11:30 now and they still haven't finished the work. When I inquired the technician said "apparently they haven't changed tranny fluid on chevy cruzes since it's a new car" .. Basically their mechanic is not experienced enough to do the job and blah blah. I am really worried and I hope they didn't mess up anything.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

abhylash83 said:


> So I decided to get the transmission fluid changed and today I came to the chevy dealership to get it done. I have been here since 8:30 in the morning and it's 11:30 now and they still haven't finished the work. When I inquired the technician said "apparently they haven't changed tranny fluid on chevy cruzes since it's a new car" .. Basically their mechanic is not experienced enough to do the job and blah blah. I am really worried and I hope they didn't mess up anything.


This is why I and others recommended AMSOIL and why I recommended you take it to a transmission shop to have it done. Many dealerships now only do two drains and refills, which only gets 75% of the old fluid out. 

Too late now, but something to keep in mind in 45k miles. 

Sent from mobile.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

NickD said:


> "There are currently 4893 users online. 342 members and 4551 guests" could well be the reason, limited bandwidth and perhaps the reason for my dyslexia. This is the most busiest site I have ever visited. Also on a super high speed internet.
> 
> You also verified by draining that much fluid from your Cruze AT, no reason for a flush, just drain and refill it with whatever you like. Referring to Dexron VI or Amsoil. No experience on this issue.
> 
> And the Cruze AT does have an external cooler? Good move, but with only a tad of over four quarts, really needs one.


Drain only removes 4.5 quarts. Trans holds 9 quarts. Two drains and refills removes 75% of old fluid. 2011 and 2012 Cruze had a corrosion inhibitor added which is causing a world of shifting problems and possibly long-term longevity problems for this transmission. It is strongly advised that the automatic transmission is serviced by a transmission shop that can get 100% of the fluid out by hooking up the trans cooler lines to a machine and allowing the transmission's internal pump to circulate the old fluid out and the new fluid in. 

Sent from mobile.


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## blk88verde (Apr 30, 2011)

> For those using any version of IE after IE 7 you need to add CruzeTalk.com to your compatibility site list. It makes IE respond to the site and any controls sent to IE as if it were IE 7.


 Thanks for the suggestion. Just did what you recommended. Typing much improved.


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## marden64 (Dec 1, 2013)

After getting a new vehicle, how long should one wait to have it changed. Checked my service manual and in it, it said that the first change is at 156K. Seems a little high if you ask me.

Am starting to wonder if I should go by the manual or do what I've always have done with my other vehicles that I had. Never had any problems with them and the last one I had, had it for 14 years. Gota love the Chevy Metro


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

marden64 said:


> After getting a new vehicle, how long should one wait to have it changed. Checked my service manual and in it, it said that the first change is at 156K. Seems a little high if you ask me.
> 
> Am starting to wonder if I should go by the manual or do what I've always have done with my other vehicles that I had. Never had any problems with them and the last one I had, had it for 14 years. Gota love the Chevy Metro


The 2014 owner's manual states 45k miles for severe service and 90k miles for normal service. Anything other than 100% highway driving should be considered less than normal service. I would recommend changing it every 45k miles with the GM fluid or 90k miles with the AMSOIL SS fluid. 

Sent from mobile.


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## tlucas (Jan 11, 2014)

So I just purchased the 2014 Cruze automatic. Was the anti-corrosion stuff used on mine? Would there be any reason why I'd want to replace my atf now, with something better, such as Amsoil, or just wait until 45k ? Definitely not the smoothest shifting tranny I ever felt, but my dealer told me that the Cruze has an adaptive transmission, and that shifting will improve as the tranny learns my driving habits. Is this true, or complete b.s.? Also, if I take it to a tranny shop with my own Amsoil, will they be able to install the Amsoil with the flush machine, or is their machine already prefilled with their atf?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

tlucas said:


> So I just purchased the 2014 Cruze automatic. Was the anti-corrosion stuff used on mine? Would there be any reason why I'd want to replace my atf now, with something better, such as Amsoil, or just wait until 45k ? Definitely not the smoothest shifting tranny I ever felt, but my dealer told me that the Cruze has an adaptive transmission, and that shifting will improve as the tranny learns my driving habits. Is this true, or complete b.s.? Also, if I take it to a tranny shop with my own Amsoil, will they be able to install the Amsoil with the flush machine, or is their machine already prefilled with their atf?


To my knowledge, they stopped using the anti-corrosion coating, but I don't know what the cut-off date was and that was just information passed on by a transmission tech that he learned during training. 

The transmission is indeed adaptive so I would give it a couple thousand miles, but excessively harsh shifting will require a fluid change. You will know by 20k miles.

You can indeed take your own fluid to any transmission shop and have them perform the service for you. You need 12 quarts for the service in the Cruze. I've had several guys do this and report excellent results. 

Sent from mobile.


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## marden64 (Dec 1, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The 2014 owner's manual states 45k miles for severe service and 90k miles for normal service. Anything other than 100% highway driving should be considered less than normal service. I would recommend changing it every 45k miles with the GM fluid or 90k miles with the AMSOIL SS fluid.
> 
> Sent from mobile.


Sorry, my bad, should have turned the page. Page I was looking at says: 1.4 and 1.8. Change automatic transmission fluid. Change filter if serviceable at 156km/97miles. Next page is says: Change automatic transmission fluid. Change filter if serviceable at 72K/45m, 144K/90m, 216K/135m. Hence why I was wondering.

After reading that, I'm a little confused. Always did it after 2 years whether it needed it or not. Might continue with that.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

marden64 said:


> Sorry, my bad, should have turned the page. Page I was looking at says: 1.4 and 1.8. Change automatic transmission fluid. Change filter if serviceable at 156km/97miles. Next page is says: Change automatic transmission fluid. Change filter if serviceable at 72K/45m, 144K/90m, 216K/135m. Hence why I was wondering.
> 
> After reading that, I'm a little confused. Always did it after 2 years whether it needed it or not. Might continue with that.


The time interval was good in the past but unnecessary. These transmissions are sealed with no dipstick and are nor subjected to oxidizing like older ones did. In addition, DEX6 equivalent fluids are synthetic fluids that resist oxidizing more than the petroleum DEX3 fluids of the past. Stick to the mileage interval. If you are unsatisfied with the shift quality, move up to AMSOIL.

Sent from mobile.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Guess I don't understand why the owners manual list the AT fluid capacity at 4.2 quarts when its actually 9 quarts!

I assume this can still be a DIY job with the Cruze, as it still has an oil pump to pump out all the old fluid with the engine at idle. Been doing this for years, you don't need special equipment for this outside of some hoses and a container.

Same with a PS pump, but need to have both front wheels off the floor with an assistant rotating the steering wheel back and forth to get rid of that old dirty stuff. Just remove the return line at the pump and connect a hose to it to a container. And better tie it down or PS fluid will be shot all over the place. In either case, neither the PS pump nor the AT is not under load and enough lubricant is left over to prevent any damage, but get it done ASAP. Ha, big job is blocking up the vehicle.

Also assume the Cruze AT is like other FWD drive vehicles where the AT fluid not only takes care of the transmission but the differential as well. Unlike a RWD vehicle have two half axle seals to be concerned about instead of one for leakage. Leakage can destroy a transmission in a big hurry with no warning.

Not a bad job to change the front seal in a RWD drive vehicle, but a nightmare with a transaxle. Another good reason for me choosing a MT. Have enough problems, don't need more. 

Last front seal job was on my son's Taurus, took a weekend for a four buck seal, to pay shop for this would cost at lot more than what the car is worth. Last overhaul was on my TH-400, a mechanical transmission, was able to replace everything except the housing for under 500 bucks. While driving, a hidden part of the coolant hose broke leaking fluid without my knowledge. Worse part of this job was making all brand new hoses.

Electronic controlled transmissions don't make any sense, first were using a separate module, now part of the PCM with wires going all over the place for extra problems. And components are outrageous, even though the insides of these transmissions are far simpler. Neutral safety switch can be the problem as well as brake switches that control torque lockup.

One product highly recommended by practically transmission rebuilders is Lubegard, really makes a difference in smooth shifting.

LUBEGARD Automatic Transmission Fluid Protectant


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## WhiteAndBright (Mar 4, 2013)

obermd said:


> For those using any version of IE after IE 7 you need to add CruzeTalk.com to your compatibility site list. It makes IE respond to the site and any controls sent to IE as if it were IE 7.


Obermd is spot on I had the same problem that others are saying.. After you add the site to compatibility mode the site will work flawlessly.. The AG app is another story it crashes constantly and will do so at least 5-6 times while trying to read one thread.. App blows balls..


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

The oil specification is for a drain/refill.
The variation is a result of the torque converter remaining full during the drain process.
The higher, 9 qt. spec is for a new trans/torque converter assembly.....or, initial fill capacity.

The front pump would only be able to pull enouph oil out of the converter till it cavitated,,,,,I guess two or three qts. would still be trapped in the converter.

The manufacturer has determined that changing 50 to 60% of the fluid is sufficient enouph to 'recharge' the detergent and lubricity of the fluid that remains.

Rob


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Robby said:


> The oil specification is for a drain/refill.
> The variation is a result of the torque converter remaining full during the drain process.
> The higher, 9 qt. spec is for a new trans/torque converter assembly.....or, initial fill capacity.
> 
> ...


So does a pressure flush get that old fluid out of the torque converter? Original Hydra-Matics not only had a drain plug on the pan, but a 1/4" square head drain plug on the torque converter. Ha, remember that clearly because I had to buy a socket to remove it, still have that socket. Was on my 49 Olds 98.

But then there was drain plugs on the differentials, and zerk fittings everywhere, even clamps on that single vacuum line leading to the distributor. You don't see of this stuff anymore, just to make maintenance far more miserable. Even the block drains used petcocks from the factory to make it easy. Today, if you can find them, no way to reach them.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> So does a pressure flush get that old fluid out of the torque converter? Original Hydra-Matics not only had a drain plug on the pan, but a 1/4" square head drain plug on the torque converter. Ha, remember that clearly because I had to buy a socket to remove it, still have that socket. Was on my 49 Olds 98.
> 
> But then there was drain plugs on the differentials, and zerk fittings everywhere, even clamps on that single vacuum line leading to the distributor. You don't see of this stuff anymore, just to make maintenance far more miserable. Even the block drains used petcocks from the factory to make it easy. Today, if you can find them, no way to reach them.


Yes, it pumps through.

Disconnecting cooler lines and letting the transmission pump around its own fluid through the pan/torque converter is a similar DIY method.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Yes, it pumps through.
> 
> Disconnecting cooler lines and letting the transmission pump around its own fluid through the pan/torque converter is a similar DIY method.


This is exactly what I have been doing for years with other AT's, especially in overworked AT's like in motorhomes. Replacing just four quarts in a 17 quart system is next to worthless.

And another reason why I do it myself, like changing engine oil. Chevy dealer wants $19.95 for an oil change, but to use the right stuff, suddenly the price is $79.95. But this is only for a tiny little car. They don't do motorhomes, then the price to get this work done is a hundred bucks an hour plus materials. For a hundred bucks an hour, can do a lot of oil and fluid changes.

Oh and these high labor charges are paid with non-tax deductible post tax dollars, where the IRS already took a big chunk out of it. And besides I need that money to pay for property taxes for services that I am not receiving. They tell me if I don't, will auction my home off and toss me out in the street.

I could put these labor charges on my credit card with easy payments and pay them back at three times as much that is also non-tax deductible. Just saying this job was a lot easier when they put a drain plug on the torque converter, can't even do this anymore.

If I lay a large piece of plastic on the garage floor, won't spill a drop, if I don't fluid goes everywhere. Must be Murphy's law. 

Guess you younger guys don't remember when ATF use to be 30 cents a quart. Ha, even doing it yourself today is very expensive. Price of this stuff has gone up over by a factor of 15 times, wouldn't be bad if my wages went up at the same rate.


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## RedChevy (May 22, 2011)

Robby said:


> The oil specification is for a drain/refill.
> The variation is a result of the torque converter remaining full during the drain process.
> The higher, 9 qt. spec is for a new trans/torque converter assembly.....or, initial fill capacity.
> 
> ...



I plan on doing a D&R every 25K. 
I agree with the manufacturer that changing half the fluid 'recharges' the system.
This may not be a good idea in a neglected system but if done from new it should help extend the tranny's life.
I also like the idea that I'm not opening hose connections which could leak later on.

PS: I followed JBlackburn's advice about 'compatibility settings' and it's now working great....thanks JB.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

RedChevy said:


> I plan on doing a D&R every 25K.
> I agree with the manufacturer that changing half the fluid 'recharges' the system.
> This may not be a good idea in a neglected system but if done from new it should help extend the tranny's life.
> I also like the idea that I'm not opening hose connections which could leak later on.
> ...


Haha, credit for that goes to Obermd. All glory to the hypnotoad. 

I agree that a complete flush is best on a new or known history transmission. At least 2 drain and fills will achieve the same thing, at reduced intervals. 

For those neglected or with unknown history, we found on my old forum that our cars in particular did better with a series of 2/3 drain and fills with a week or so in between to let the new fluid clean up things a bit. We only recommended a full flush by the cooler hose method if it was well taken care of. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

All up to the user, dilution approach, while a bit more costly would be better than nothing. But if you possess the skills and tools to rebuild an AT, removing a hose is nothing.

Ha, another way to drain a torque converter is to pull and and tip if over a container. Did that with my TH-400, but with only 60 bucks for a brand new Borg Warner, improved and a six bolt unit, just pitched the old one. Wasn't worth cleaning it in solvent for me. Just tossed it in the recycling bin. 

The way they are building vehicles today, won't be long until I get a much larger trashcan and pitch the entire vehicle.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> The way they are building vehicles today, won't be long until I get a much larger trashcan and pitch the entire vehicle.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, not even sure why I am posting in this section, have an MT in my Cruze. Clutch kit for this thing runs 500 bucks, really pricey. So keep this in mind when driving it. Gone are the days, when you could replace everything for around 15 bucks in less than two hours, so no more drag racing.


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## RedChevy (May 22, 2011)

I just wanted to give an update on my A/T D&R after a few months and 6K miles......it's shifting smoother than before.
I think the addition of Lubegard Red has something to do with it and I plan to add it every time I drain it.


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## nobog (Oct 25, 2011)

So why don't they put a drain plug and a spin on oil filter like the old school Saturns had?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

RedChevy said:


> I just wanted to give an update on my A/T D&R after a few months and 6K miles......it's shifting smoother than before.
> I think the addition of Lubegard Red has something to do with it and I plan to add it every time I drain it.


You changed both the fluid to a non-oe fluid, from an OE fluid that was contaminated with corrosion inhibitors, to a Valvoline fluid and an additive. 

You've changed 3 variables and attribute all the difference to your additive. From a critical perspective, it sounds like you want that additive to do something. 

Would it surprise you at all to hear that lubeguard is designed for conventional ATF and not synthetic ATF?

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## iTz SADISTIK (Apr 6, 2014)

AMSOIL is perfect in mine with no additives. In fact I can shift with my pink tip alone!


Sent from iFail Mobile


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

iTz SADISTIK said:


> AMSOIL is perfect in mine with no additives. In fact I can shift with my pink tip alone!
> 
> 
> Sent from iFail Mobile


We were talking about automatics.


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## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

XR is there a Amsoil bypass filteration for ATs? Something that could T into the trans cooler lines maybe.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

AutumnCruzeRS said:


> XR is there a Amsoil bypass filteration for ATs? Something that could T into the trans cooler lines maybe.


That, I'm not sure of, but I would think the internal filter would be sufficient for filtration. Here's why. 

Transmission fluids deal with two major problems. 

1. Heat
2. Oxidation

When the fluid gets too hot, the viscosity thins and the fluid film breaks down. Under the right circumstances, the fluid will shear and metal on metal contact will occur. Heat just weakens the fluid. 

When the fluid gets hot, it also thermo-oxidizes. This is also known as sludge. Sludge blocks valve body passages, which are at times extremely small and have screens that are very fine. Transmission fluids have antioxidants to help prevent this, although the additives do wear out over time. 

The only way the fluid will need filtration is if/when metallic wear occurs. If the fluid does its job of preventing metal on metal contact, this will never happen. This is why I have pushed for the AMSOIL SS ATF. It holds up to temperature extremes so well that it is recommended as if it was "normal service." Since it does not shear under pressure and heat and maintains viscosity far better in both temperature extremes, you should not have any metallic wear and therefore have no need for an external filter. This includes wear from clutch plates, which are driven by friction modifiers in the fluid. 

Besides, good luck finding a place to mount a bypass filter.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


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## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

Thanks XR! Do modern ATs have a internal magnet to catch any metallic particles like that of trans pans had?


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

for what it is worth my manual says to sever service on changing the transmission fluid is 50,000 and normal service is 100,000. Don't recommend going 100,000 on the factory fill. I just got my fluid changed at 32,000 with amsoil and it does make a big difference. I really notice it in the manual shifting mode where it is a lot easier to control the rpms and the actual manual shifting is a lot smoother. I almost use the manual shifting more around town just so the transmision isn't shifting that much. So far my mpg is up about 50 miles per tankful with a/c on fulltime and that is only filling twice so far since I go the ATF changed.


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## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

jsusanka said:


> for what it is worth my manual says to sever service on changing the transmission fluid is 50,000 and normal service is 100,000. Don't recommend going 100,000 on the factory fill. I just got my fluid changed at 32,000 with amsoil and it does make a big difference. I really notice it in the manual shifting mode where it is a lot easier to control the rpms and the actual manual shifting is a lot smoother. I almost use the manual shifting more around town just so the transmision isn't shifting that much. So far my mpg is up about 50 miles per tankful with a/c on fulltime and that is only filling twice so far since I go the ATF changed.


May I ask, did you drain and fill or flush?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

AutumnCruzeRS said:


> Thanks XR! Do modern ATs have a internal magnet to catch any metallic particles like that of trans pans had?


The drain plug might. 

I used a Magnefine filter on my old car (splices into a cooler line) and was quite happy with it. 


Sent from Bill the WonderPhone


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

AutumnCruzeRS said:


> May I ask, did you drain and fill or flush?


Sure - my dealer is nice enough (they rock) to use the fluid I bring for oil and anything else. They used a machine to get the fluid out and used my fluid to fill. They needed me to bring 3 gallons so I did. The machine uses a few extra quarts than what the transmission holds. I think a full fill on the transmission is 9 quarts.


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