# OOPS - Destroyed fill plug on transmission



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

So, as a result of my recent shift flares when cold, I decided it would be a good idea to change fluid again. As per the good advice in the DIY thread, I started with the fill plug. I put my T50 snugly down in there and started turning, but something didn't feel right. I tried pulling it out and putting it back in, making sure it was nice and square, and this time was sure I was stripping it. I looked down there and saw metal filings in the little opening. I got out my trusty extended magnet and was able to get them all up out of there, but by then it was too late. 

So, my best thought is to use some JB Weld and "weld" (glue) about a 13 MM or maybe 15 MM nut on the top of the fill plug and then try to take it off that way. 

Good idea? Bad idea?


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> So, as a result of my recent shift flares when cold, I decided it would be a good idea to change fluid again. As per the good advice in the DIY thread, I started with the fill plug. I put my T50 snugly down in there and started turning, but something didn't feel right. I tried pulling it out and putting it back in, making sure it was nice and square, and this time was sure I was stripping it. I looked down there and saw metal filings in the little opening. I got out my trusty extended magnet and was able to get them all up out of there, but by then it was too late.
> 
> So, my best thought is to use some JB Weld and "weld" (glue) about a 13 MM or maybe 15 MM nut on the top of the fill plug and then try to take it off that way.
> 
> Good idea? Bad idea?


I haven't even looked at my transmission from bottom side, still on free oil changes. I am a little confused, if you rounded the fill plug how did you get metal filings inside the transmission? If I read your post correctly isn't the long term fix just a new transmission fill plug?


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I haven't even looked at my transmission from bottom side, still on free oil changes. I am a little confused, if you rounded the fill plug how did you get metal filings inside the transmission? If I read your post correctly isn't the long term fix just a new transmission fill plug?


Sorry - meant that the metal shavings were on the inside of the fill plug, where the T50 bit fits in. I would definitely replace the plug after I was able to remove it. I'm mainly wondering if anybody's used JB Weld in this way before. I don't know if it would stand up to that much torque (trying to loosen the plug). Oh, and the fill plug is on top of the transmission, in the engine compartment.


----------



## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> I haven't even looked at my transmission from bottom side, still on free oil changes. I am a little confused, if you rounded the fill plug how did you get metal filings inside the transmission? If I read your post correctly isn't the long term fix just a new transmission fill plug?


The OP is referencing the fill plug that is a female torx of T50 dimension.
The Torx bit was/is stripping the 6 pointed hole in the fill plug and he used a magnet to remove the shavings in the hole to be certain the torx bit is fully seated in the hopes of not doing further damage.

diesel: I think this is a Torx Plus fastener......the Plus has wider shoulders to prevent this slippage and although a standard torx will often work successfully if the fastener is not too tight, the potential of strippage is very high.

If the fastener is not is not too badly wrecked, meaning the bit you used did not totally pull the shoulders off the plug, try to get ahold of a Torx Plus of the correct dimension and hammer it into the plug so it seats fully.
Cross your fingers and try again.

BTW....google Torx and Torx Plus to see the shoulder varience I am describing.

Good luck!

Rob


----------



## cyclewild (Aug 14, 2013)

You would most likely have better luck putting some jb in the hole and then putting the bit in until it sets up, highly doubt it would hold up if you just attatched a nut with it, should be able to then remove bit from plug after removal.


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Thanks Rob for the explanation, makes better sense. Just never looked at he plug on transmission. Perhaps there is a spec on the plug how many foot pounds on the plug, maybe you over torqued it on last change? Sometimes if I have someone else change oil on my car they sure seem to over tighten the oil plug, I realize the design is different but still.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Not so sure the epoxy will hold, the fill plug on top with mine was not a torx, it was internal hex, I think it was 8mm. If you had an internal hex like mine and used a torx, that would cause what you describe. Also, a hex bit might work if there is enough metal remaining to get traction. If that doesn't work, try a properly sized easy out bit. In any case, you'll want a new plug. I also found mine missing the O-ring.. it has an O-ring Grove, having a set of many O-rings I just found one to put on when I reinstalled, without the O-ring I'd bet that plug is on too tight, if that is true for yours as well.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

jb weld will most definitely hold.

this thread is why i bought a new plug BEFORE i did my trans fluid change, i knew at some point i would strip a plug like that whether it be the first time or 5yrs down the road


----------



## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

Diesel, would you say the cause was the use of the standard torx instead of the torx plus? Or something else?

I didn't even know torx plus existed.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

beaurrr said:


> Diesel, would you say the cause was the use of the standard torx instead of the torx plus? Or something else?
> 
> I didn't even know torx plus existed.


On the bit I used, it says "T50". I am not sure exactly what this means. It did work the first time I changed it.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> jb weld will most definitely hold.
> 
> this thread is why i bought a new plug BEFORE i did my trans fluid change, i knew at some point i would strip a plug like that whether it be the first time or 5yrs down the road


Do you have the p/n for the fill plug handy?


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> Do you have the p/n for the fill plug handy?


https://www.google.ca/search?q=9318...=chrome..69i57j69i60&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Diesel, did you get the fluid changed at all or did this plug issue happen the first time you were doing the drain?


----------



## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Robby said:


> Torx Plus fastener.


Great. Another set of tools I'll have to get. Well, better I learn now than the hard way.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> https://www.google.ca/search?q=9318...=chrome..69i57j69i60&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


Thank you.



IndyDiesel said:


> Diesel, did you get the fluid changed at all or did this plug issue happen the first time you were doing the drain?


I was able to change successfully at 124K miles. This time, I wasn't able to do any changes at all. 



ChevyGuy said:


> Great. Another set of tools I'll have to get. Well, better I learn now than the hard way.


I wonder if the DIY should be updated with this. The T50 worked the first time for me, but maybe that was just lucky. EDIT: Just looked at 93183573 - It seems to be a torx?
















Second EDIT: This is not the right p/n. The one on the top (that I stripped) I posted below.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

So, I have decided that JB Weld will definitely be used. Can I get some more opinions on which will likely be the best option:

1. JB Weld the T50 socket into the hole and try again that way.

2. JB Weld a 13-15 MM Nut on top of the fill plug and try that way


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, that is definitely a regular torx. But it could possibly be a T55. Torx bits need to fit suuuuuuuper tight. If there's any play, it's likely the next size larger. Otherwise you risk doing what you did, or shearing the Torx bit off.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Yeah, that is definitely a regular torx. But it could possibly be a T55. Torx bits need to fit suuuuuuuper tight. If there's any play, it's likely the next size larger. Otherwise you risk doing what you did, or shearing the Torx bit off.


I've seen on some of the Saab forums that it's a T55. I am going to add a note to the DIY.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The fill plug is on top, that picture is the level plug, inside the drain plug on the bottom of the transmission..

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> On the bit I used, it says "T50". I am not sure exactly what this means. It did work the first time I changed it.





diesel said:


> So, I have decided that JB Weld will definitely be used. Can I get some more opinions on which will likely be the best option:
> 
> 1. JB Weld the T50 socket into the hole and try again that way.
> 
> 2. JB Weld a 13-15 MM Nut on top of the fill plug and try that way


in is better

how to add pressure will be the tough part


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MRO1791 said:


> The fill plug is on top, that picture is the level plug, inside the drain plug on the bottom of the transmission..
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Hmm, I thought it looked a bit different. I may have just ordered the wrong thing.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

OK, this is the right part number 11099271


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

fuuu....yeah i thinking drain plug lol.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

boraz said:


> fuuu....yeah i thinking drain plug lol.


No prob. 

That huge plug has such a tiny opening. No wonder they strip out.


----------



## Greggul8r (Apr 20, 2016)

I have used with very good luck a product called Q-Bond with the nut on a bolt sort of thing the stuff is amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVOdRx4SSA


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

diesel said:


> No prob.
> 
> That huge plug has such a tiny opening. No wonder they strip out.


iirc, i couldnt get a straight shot at it, using extensions and something was in the way


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Now that I see it, I recall for sure mine was internal hex, not torx. Perhaps the original had at some point been stripped out on that car... That said, clearly there exists an internal hex plug that fits, and it on could find and use that, seems it would be better.. AW-40 trans on Volvo XC-70, Ford Fusion, several Saab cars.. might be worth it to get it..

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Greggul8r said:


> I have used with very good luck a product called Q-Bond with the nut on a bolt sort of thing the stuff is amazing
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVOdRx4SSA


Thanks for the tip, but he said in the video it was rated at 356 degrees and 1300 PSI, but the JB Weld is rated at like 3960 PSI and 550 degrees.



boraz said:


> iirc, i couldnt get a straight shot at it, using extensions and something was in the way


 Yeah, there's some cable/hose thing in the way that you have to push on to clear the opening. 



MRO1791 said:


> Now that I see it, I recall for sure mine was internal hex, not torx. Perhaps the original had at some point been stripped out on that car... That said, clearly there exists an internal hex plug that fits, and it on could find and use that, seems it would be better.. AW-40 trans on Volvo XC-70, Ford Fusion, several Saab cars.. might be worth it to get it..
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


 On the saab forums, it says to use a T55, however I have seen some stuff written that says the size was changed at some point. It's a bit of a mystery. i am pretty sure that the replacement part is not a hex though. (Picture in post #22)


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

That cable in the way is the shift cable for the transmission. It can be released from that bracket (squeeze the plastic release tabs) and moved over without full disconnect. There's enough slack that it can be safely pushed aside and that provides good access to that fill plug.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Well, it's on to plan C. I JB Welded the T50 into the hole, let it cure for 24 hours and took an impact wrench to it. It tried really hard, but eventually i just ended up with a bunch of little pieces of JB Weld. I then managed to get lock pliers on it, and it would not turn. I am out of ideas. I might still trying to get a nut on the top of it. Any other suggestions welcomed.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

If it is taking that much effort, I'm beginning to wonder if you cross-threaded it.

It's not that tight of a plug, usually, so even if you got any torque on the T50 to turn it, prior to the JB weld coming apart, it should have loosened some, at least.


----------



## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

MP81 said:


> If it is taking that much effort, I'm beginning to wonder if you cross-threaded it.
> 
> It's not that tight of a plug, usually, so even if you got any torque on the T50 to turn it, prior to the JB weld coming apart, it should have loosened some, at least.


I agree... A fill plug should never be THAT tight!!!


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> Well, it's on to plan C. I JB Welded the T50 into the hole, let it cure for 24 hours and took an impact wrench to it. It tried really hard, but eventually i just ended up with a bunch of little pieces of JB Weld. I then managed to get lock pliers on it, and it would not turn. I am out of ideas. I might still trying to get a nut on the top of it. Any other suggestions welcomed.


This might be to extreme, can you weld a nut on it and then just turn it with a good wrench? I had an exhaust manifold on a f150 that broke some studs off that secure the manifold and that is what they did....realize this is little different. Just an idea


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> If it is taking that much effort, I'm beginning to wonder if you cross-threaded it.
> 
> It's not that tight of a plug, usually, so even if you got any torque on the T50 to turn it, prior to the JB weld coming apart, it should have loosened some, at least.





Chris Tobin said:


> I agree... A fill plug should never be THAT tight!!!


When I put it in the last time, it went in nice and easy and I never tightened it too tight. Just gently snug. I think it seized. You know, steel plug, aluminum case. 



IndyDiesel said:


> This might be to extreme, can you weld a nut on it and then just turn it with a good wrench? I had an exhaust manifold on a f150 that broke some studs off that secure the manifold and that is what they did....realize this is little different. Just an idea


I would do that if I knew how to weld. That's mainly why the JB Weld. I suppose the next step is to JB Weld a nut on top of it and see if that is able to withstand any more torque.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Oh, if using any form of epoxy, stay away from impact wrench. Use a long extension and cheater bar for more torque. The impact action will not work well with an epoxy bond or general more brittle nature of the epoxy itself. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

If you have a hole with some depth, consider a screw extractor, sometimes known as an easy out. You could even over size the whole with a drill, preferably a reverse drill. Application of considerable breakfree and even heating/cooling may help as well. If you can heat the plug and surrounding case, then cool the plug with ice rapidly it should also help. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

diesel said:


> When I put it in the last time, it went in nice and easy and I never tightened it too tight. Just gently snug. I think it seized. You know, steel plug, aluminum case.
> 
> 
> 
> I would do that if I knew how to weld. That's mainly why the JB Weld. I suppose the next step is to JB Weld a nut on top of it and see if that is able to withstand any more torque.


It is hard to believe that it would seize that badly... Maybe try applying heat and or penetrant to help loosen it. I don't know that I would want to try to weld on it... To many things in the car that could be damaged by the high-voltage/high-current charge of the welder. Try an EZ-Out or try the JB Weld again. Also using constant pressure rather than the impact as stated above. And be sure it is VERY clean before applying the JB Weld or it will not bond well.

Another thing you MAY be able to try is cutting a slot in it with a Dremel-type tool and then using a large slotted screwdriver.

You may end up having to drill it out...


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks for all the tips. I am afraid to drill it, because if I break through, well, then I now have drill shavings in my transmission. I probably won't take another shot at it for a while. It's going to the body shop next week and then probably to the dealer after that.


----------



## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

I'd try a T-55 and get a T-50 Plus & T-55 Plus. You can order them off of Amazon. Get a good one. I recommend SK, they are not cheap but are good tools.

The transmission bell housing bolts on the 4L60-E are T-50 Plus. I realize the 4L60 is not an Aisin transmission, but the Torx Plus bolts seem to be a bit more common in applications like that. If that does not work, buy a new drain plug first and see if you can bump the old one out with an air chisel.

Have fun and go slow!!


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> Thanks for all the tips. I am afraid to drill it, because if I break through, well, then I now have drill shavings in my transmission. I probably won't take another shot at it for a while. It's going to the body shop next week and then probably to the dealer after that.


Maybe while it's in body shop take some really clear pics and stop by a transmission shop and ask for some recommendations. We are all lazy boy chair guessing here, perhaps someone that does this sort of thing for a living have addressed your issues before, or take it to a professional before you cause more damage than you already have... or maybe they would remove a transmission line and pump ou the old fluid and pump new fluid in and do an exchange that way until you can figure the plug out.


----------



## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Another option, don't remove it at all... Let me explain. The VW DSG transmission does not have a fill plug. It has a snorkel drain plug arrangement similar to this transmission. To fill that transmission there is an adapter to push fluid in from the drain plug with snorkel, on this car that would be the small center fill level plug inside the larger drain plug. You could make a tool with tubing and do same. Then you would not need to deal with the fill plug ever. Just a thought. Hope it helps. Also the dremmel slot seems a good idea, but getting in there with even a dremmel would be difficult. Concur on concern for a weld that close to sensitive ECU, right next to battery.. that could be a serious problem. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


----------



## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

First thing I would try is to re jb weld another bit in there and use a breaker bar and apply slow, even force. As soon as I saw you say that you used an impact I knew it was going to blow that jb weld to pieces.

Jb welding a nut to the top of the plug will probably not work. That is a very small contact area compared to having the bit inside the jb weld and it will probably just twist the nut right off.

Now I can tell you, I've been a welder for a while now and if you can weld a nut to the top of that thing, it WILL come out. If you can't weld, you will have to take it to someone who can. They can turn the wire speed down and melt that thing solid to the plug and it will come out. I've done this hundreds of times. The problem here won't be the voltage as said before. Welders really don't run at very high voltages. The welder will probably be running around 20-22v to do this and as long as the ground is kept close and the battery is disconnected, you won't have any issues. If you wanted to be really safe you could unplug anything you see in the engine bay. The thing that would make me nervous about welding a nut to this plug is the heat. To get a nut welded on there solid enough to twist that plug out, it will get very hot. This would be my last option. It will work, but I would definitely use it as a last resort.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks again for all the insight. I will keep y'all posted as I progress through all the drama. Body shop first, then DEF quality issue next. Then this one. When it rains, it pours, lol!


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

@*diesel*, Ouch! Sorry to hear. I've been away from the forum for quite awhile and came back to see this. I have flushed mine once more since I wrote the guide and I don't remember what size I used the second time, I just kept trying until I found the torx that fit snug. It was a bear to crack it loose the second time though and I specifically barely snugged it up the first time. 

I usually copper never seize everything I touch but worry about any getting into the transmission so I avoided it. 

Like others said JB Weld should work but no impact. Keep in mind if your car is outside in the lower temperatures at night it will take more time to fully cure. If it were me, I'd probably glue the bit right in there and use a pipe wrench on the socket extensions to bust it out if a regular ratchet isn't giving you enough torque.

Hope I didn't give out bad info on the size! Whatever I used was the proper fit and tight, unless I just made a typo on size.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> @*diesel*, Ouch! Sorry to hear. I've been away from the forum for quite awhile and came back to see this. I have flushed mine once more since I wrote the guide and I don't remember what size I used the second time, I just kept trying until I found the torx that fit snug. It was a bear to crack it loose the second time though and I specifically barely snugged it up the first time.
> 
> I usually copper never seize everything I touch but worry about any getting into the transmission so I avoided it.
> 
> ...


Hey, yes it's been a while! Anyway, I have my car at the dealer now and I passed it off to them. Too frustrating for me. I just hope they don't knock dirt or something down in there. I think I'd be better off to maybe give it another whack. If they haven't started on it, I can probably tell them to hold off. Interesting your note about it being extra difficult to get out the second time.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I just had the dealer do this. Not sure how they got it out, but I got a nice shiny new plug in there!


----------



## lsone (Jan 23, 2016)

I recently did the 3 fills and 2 dumps to my transmission. What I can say is and what I think contributes to so many stripped fill plugs is, when you put an extension or 10 on to get the ratchet high enough to twist.... the torx bit is not in the head straight. The hole is actually drilled at an angle that is towards the firewall(leaning towards the rear of the car). What I did was put a swivel mid way up(halfway from fill plug to getting the ratchet out from behind the engine). I then had a friend hold the extension/swivel with a lean on it so the torx bit was square into the plug. It was quite the pull to bust it loose, but we got it 

hopefully that makes sense and saves some people the headache.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

lsone said:


> I recently did the 3 fills and 2 dumps to my transmission. What I can say is and what I think contributes to so many stripped fill plugs is, when you put an extension or 10 on to get the ratchet high enough to twist.... the torx bit is not in the head straight. The hole is actually drilled at an angle that is towards the firewall(leaning towards the rear of the car). What I did was put a swivel mid way up(halfway from fill plug to getting the ratchet out from behind the engine). I then had a friend hold the extension/swivel with a lean on it so the torx bit was square into the plug. It was quite the pull to bust it loose, but we got it
> 
> hopefully that makes sense and saves some people the headache.


What size bit did you use? Was it the factory fill plug?


----------



## lsone (Jan 23, 2016)

diesel said:


> what size bit did you use? Was it the factory fill plug?


t55, factory plug. The oil that came out was brown. Looked like ****.

Amsoil signature ATF went in.


----------



## sparkola (Jun 9, 2014)

How much tranny fluid does it take?


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

sparkola said:


> How much tranny fluid does it take?


Here you go: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/169-...ion-fluid-diesel-aw-af-40-6-transmission.html


----------

