# 9T50 9 speed automatic impressions.



## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

I wanted to post some impressions of the 9 speed auto now that I have a few miles under my belt on it.

I feel like the shift logic could use some improving in that it tends to hold a lower gear longer than I think it should. 

For example it will not shift to 7th gear below 30 mph. Once you hit 30 and it goes into 7th you can slow down below 30 a bit and hold 7th. It just feels right in 7th ~30 mph and wrong in 6th at those speeds.

Another example is 8th gear. It won't shift to 8th until you hit 40 mph. Again, once you get it into 8th you can slow down a bit to about 37th and hold it as long as you're not too heavy on the accelerator or climbing a steep grade.

I wish it would go into 7th sooner as well as 8th. The rpms are simply too high at 25-29 mph and 35-39mph which is where we spend a lot of time cruising when in the city.

Another annoyance is the inability to manually select a gear. You put it in L and pick say 7th and it don't mean much other than it won't shift above 7th.

One more example is highway speeds. It will not shift to 9th until you reach 60 mph. Again, 55-59 mph keeps the rpms higher than the need to be in 8th and it cuts into your economy pretty good if you watch this and pay attention.


When the day comes that I can either use HPTuners to play with the parameters on the 9 speed OR a tuner sells a reflash that I can customize I will be quick to do it but until then I've learned to drive around the annoyances. With the ability to customize it a bit I would change the low load parameters to shift into the next gear a few mph sooner. It would change the whole driving experience to me.

One last thing I do not like and I don't know if this is 9 speed exclusive or not but the auto stop is WAY too fast to kill the engine. One gleaming example is when I park at home I back into my driveway. From the time I come to a stop and move the lever to reverse the car has already partially shut the engine off and quickly restarts it as I move the shift lever. Very annoying and I would either program a 1.5 second delay before auto stop or program it to consider steering wheel angle as a factor to auto stop. If the wheel is cranked to one side or the other perhaps delay the auto stop for longer than 0.00001 second?

Anyhow that's my impressions on the unit.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Not surprising; GM never nailed the shift points with the 6T transmissions either. The 6T35 in my 1.4 likes to hold onto 2-3 wayyyy to long on uphill stretches (well over 3000 rpm when it could easily shift to the next gear and have power available). 

The 9T also seems a little indecisive from a rolling stop about what to do (left turn, parking lots, etc). 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Most of those do not sound like an issue to me.

Based on all the vehicle reviews I've read using the GM 9-speed, it is by far the best 9-speed on the market. Far better than the pile of **** ZF 9-speed everyone else uses (NOT just FCA - it is terrible in every application).


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## crunch21 (Jul 16, 2018)

really disappointed with the transmissions. GM had such great transmissions (even if mostly 4 speeds) in the past. Part of the draw to the cruze was the slushbox vs competitors CVT. These transmissions seem to have two modes "hypermile time" and "balls to the wall" and its just jarring at times. Still learning the foot pedal positions and im sure ill get better and managing when it decides to go crazy better. My old GM 4 speed all i ever wanted was another gear or two on the top end for highway cruising, it really nailed daily driving and when it needed to drop gears, i feel like that was all lost with these cars and its a confused and nervous transmission.

Part of the issue has to be with using voodoo magic to get 2k RPM peak torque on a tiny engine, would have been much happier with 3.5K peak torque, a normal acting transmission, and living with the fact that i wont be zipping off the line with acceleration....which is something the cruze doesnt do anyway so whats the point of dealing with LSPI issues and a goofy tranny all for ridiculous low end torque on an engine that has no business peaking out so low in the rpm. I get it wouldn't be able to have such high MPG around town though, id be willing to trade that off potentially.

Im hoping i just get use to it all, which im sure i will. It doesnt seem to matter if i dont care how slow im accelerating, seems to work just fine when im being the slow guy to 45-50.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

crunch21 said:


> really disappointed with the transmissions. GM had such great transmissions (even if mostly 4 speeds) in the past. Part of the draw to the cruze was the slushbox vs competitors CVT. These transmissions seem to have two modes "hypermile time" and "balls to the wall" and its just jarring at times. Still learning the foot pedal positions and im sure ill get better and managing when it decides to go crazy better. My old GM 4 speed all i ever wanted was another gear or two on the top end for highway cruising, it really nailed daily driving and when it needed to drop gears, i feel like that was all lost with these cars and its a confused and nervous transmission.
> 
> Part of the issue has to be with using voodoo magic to get 2k RPM peak torque on a tiny engine, would have been much happier with 3.5K peak torque, a normal acting transmission, and living with the fact that i wont be zipping off the line with acceleration....which is something the cruze doesnt do anyway so whats the point of dealing with LSPI issues and a goofy tranny all for ridiculous low end torque on an engine that has no business peaking out so low in the rpm. I get it wouldn't be able to have such high MPG around town though, id be willing to trade that off potentially.
> 
> Im hoping i just get use to it all, which im sure i will. It doesnt seem to matter if i dont care how slow im accelerating, seems to work just fine when im being the slow guy to 45-50.


Isn't your vehicle a 1.4T? If so, your car has the 6-speed, not the much-better 9-speed.

I do agree with the 4-speed comment. My tuned 4T45E in my Cobalt is **** near perfect at almost every point.


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## crunch21 (Jul 16, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Isn't your vehicle a 1.4T? If so, your car has the 6-speed, not the much-better 9-speed.
> 
> I do agree with the 4-speed comment. My tuned 4T45E in my Cobalt is **** near perfect at almost every point.


Yes i have the *sigh* lesser 1.4T gas engine lol. God i loved that buttery smooth 2.2L in the cobalt. Wasnt a speed demon but the thing would sing through the gears. Shame everything around the powertrain was falling apart. Dont even know how the AC stayed so cold in that thing for so long without a single service done on it.

I couldnt even find a diesel in my area, and probably wouldnt have been cool paying the premium on it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yes, the 2.2L was a spunky little thing, even in stock form. With the M62 on it, it fixes the speed part.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Most of those do not sound like an issue to me.
> 
> Based on all the vehicle reviews I've read using the GM 9-speed, it is by far the best 9-speed on the market. Far better than the pile of **** ZF 9-speed everyone else uses (NOT just FCA - it is terrible in every application).



I have read all the same glowing reviews you did.

Have you driven one? What i'm describing is how they behave in my car.

It could easily upshift another gear and be right in the delicious torque band but instead it insists on hanging onto the lower gear until you hit hard programmed MPH parameter. Speed up a bit, pass that set speed then slow down a bit and you're right where I would have wanted it to shift in the first place.

Nothing in the world will change my mind on the behavior of the auto stop / start in this car.

It sucks ESPECIALLY when parking.

He!! another example. 

Just pull into a parking spot forward. Stop. Car dies. Shove shifter in park. VROOM car starts back up only to have me reach over and turn it off.

If I don't do the work around and shift from drive to park too quickly after stopping the car will do a big ol' CHUG CHUG SHUDDER as it partially stops then immediately restarts. Feels like garbage.

My work around is turn the car off before shifting to park.

Very poorly executed.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

My MIL has a Terrain Denali, so I have enough experience (not driving, but I always pay attention to how a car is driving - I am an engineer) with the 9-speed to make a valid statement about it. Freeway driving to and from Savannah, GA, then driving around in Savannah, as well as driving around Atlanta, and up into more hilly/backwoods driving in Dahlonega. Basically every kind of driving there is. That transmission was **** near flawless.

The Auto-stop is not unique to the 9-speed. And I have plenty of experience with that as well, in multiple GM vehicles, none of it negative, aside from it occasionally being a little quick to turn off if I'm at a stop sign or something like that, but I never had a problem with it. No shudder, nothing. *Easily* one of the best systems on the market. Which is why that is what all the reviews say, as well.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

I've been very happy with the transmission.. I still have a 2015 that had the 6 speed, in every way the 9 speed is better at shifting. The only minor annoyance is it will hold the lower gear for perceived engine braking longer than needed going down hill after a gentle acceleration. Not a big deal. The auto stop when parking.. then start shifting to park is a bit stupid, but that is not a feature unique to this transmission. I do like your idea of shutting off before shifting to park.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

crunch21 said:


> Yes i have the *sigh* lesser 1.4T gas engine lol. God i loved that buttery smooth 2.2L in the cobalt. Wasnt a speed demon but the thing would sing through the gears. Shame everything around the powertrain was falling apart. Dont even know how the AC stayed so cold in that thing for so long without a single service done on it.
> 
> I couldnt even find a diesel in my area, and probably wouldnt have been cool paying the premium on it.


Diesel A9s around here are nearly as hard to find as Bolts are. I made a 2100 mile roundtrip to trade my vehicle and buy my A9 diesel. It was worth that easy 3 day trip,except for the rapidly deteriorating,2 lane in some states I-95 and assorted accidents and slow traffic along the way. Killed the mpg on my 1st tank at 51.5 .


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

The first opportunity that comes along *cough cough HPTuners* I will most definitely edit the shift program. The transmission itself feels nice however the logic has lots of flaws IMHO.

Too high of cruising rpms at lots of speeds which I regularly cruise at.

Hanging onto lower gears way too long after even a mild acceleration.

Again, all IMO.

One simple thing they could have done to remedy all this is allow the driver to select gears vs just selecting the top gear. Another poor choice in programming.

Of course, all of this is IMO.

(I diagnose and repair transit vehicles for a living and work with complex systems on a daily basis and drive a 9T50 daily so my opinion is just that, my opinion and nothing more)


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## crunch21 (Jul 16, 2018)

karmatourer said:


> Diesel A9s around here are nearly as hard to find as Bolts are. I made a 2100 mile roundtrip to trade my vehicle and buy my A9 diesel. It was worth that easy 3 day trip,except for the rapidly deteriorating,2 lane in some states I-95 and assorted accidents and slow traffic along the way. Killed the mpg on my 1st tank at 51.5 .


for an entry level chevy....i wasn't able to find even a redline model, let alone a diesel...**** even my RS equipped options were two...though i was only looking at hatchbacks.

really hope that 9 speed is better than the 6 speed. really disappointed with the 6 speed, id have been happier with my old cobalts 4 speed.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

crunch21 said:


> for an entry level chevy....i wasn't able to find even a redline model, let alone a diesel...**** even my RS equipped options were two...though i was only looking at hatchbacks.
> 
> really hope that 9 speed is better than the 6 speed. really disappointed with the 6 speed, id have been happier with my old cobalts 4 speed.


The downshifts as you slow seem a bit abrupt,more like a CVT. I'm unsure if the shift points are the same with the gas and diesel models. (mine is diesel).


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

karmatourer said:


> The downshifts as you slow seem a bit abrupt,more like a CVT. I'm unsure if the shift points are the same with the gas and diesel models. (mine is diesel).


I have seen similar behavior from almost every 6+ speed automatic on the market. Some worse than others; my friend's Toyota has a very abrupt 4 to 3 downshift that almost feels as if the car surges forward while braking. Done it since new.

Most old 4 and some 5-speed slushboxes would engage the torque converter clutch during downshifts or coasting. While this did make for a much smoother experience, it also turned on the injectors to keep the engine idling smoothly, which uses fuel. Most modern automatics lock up the torque converter in 2nd or sometimes 3rd gear and keep it locked through deceleration. While they keep the injectors shut off, it does make for a more abrupt downshift (and I suspect some mfrs actually blip the fuel injectors back on for a second during shifts, maybe to help rev-match, which makes it even more noticeable).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

karmatourer said:


> The downshifts as you slow seem a bit abrupt,more like a CVT. I'm unsure if the shift points are the same with the gas and diesel models. (mine is diesel).


CVTs don't downshift. 

Shift points would be different, as they have different transmissions - gas only has a 6-speed, diesel has the 9-speed.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Most old 4 and some 5-speed slushboxes would engage the torque converter clutch during downshifts or coasting. While this did make for a much smoother experience, it also turned on the injectors to keep the engine idling smoothly, which uses fuel. Most modern automatics lock up the torque converter in 2nd or sometimes 3rd gear and keep it locked through deceleration. While they keep the injectors shut off, it does make for a more abrupt downshift (and I suspect some mfrs actually blip the fuel injectors back on for a second during shifts, maybe to help rev-match, which makes it even more noticeable).


Most modern cars use DFCO when coasting or engine braking. I know my Cobalt does.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

MP81 said:


> CVTs don't downshift.
> 
> Shift points would be different, as they have different transmissions - gas only has a 6-speed, diesel has the 9-speed.


Yes,thanks. I realize CVTs don't downshift,it just feels like they do and some harshly. Since I'm very new to my Cruze,I wasn't aware the gas model was only a 6-speed.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> I have seen similar behavior from almost every 6+ speed automatic on the market. Some worse than others; my friend's Toyota has a very abrupt 4 to 3 downshift that almost feels as if the car surges forward while braking. Done it since new.
> 
> Most old 4 and some 5-speed slushboxes would engage the torque converter clutch during downshifts or coasting. While this did make for a much smoother experience, it also turned on the injectors to keep the engine idling smoothly, which uses fuel. Most modern automatics lock up the torque converter in 2nd or sometimes 3rd gear and keep it locked through deceleration. While they keep the injectors shut off, it does make for a more abrupt downshift (and I suspect some mfrs actually blip the fuel injectors back on for a second during shifts, maybe to help rev-match, which makes it even more noticeable).


I had a new '16 Sentra with a CVT,my 1st,and was really surprised that it wasn't as smooth as I expected. The Cruze even more so but I am fine with it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

karmatourer said:


> Yes,thanks. I realize CVTs don't downshift,it just feels like they do and some harshly. Since I'm very new to my Cruze,I wasn't aware the gas model was only a 6-speed.


Most of the newer ones have actually added fake "shift points" to make them seem more normal. Kind of defeats the purpose of a CVT, if you ask me...


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

I finally figured out what to compare the A9 downshifts to-a Bolt in L regen-mode. The Cruze doesn't come to a complete stop but it slows down to just just a crawl. Sometimes I'm just a little slow on the uptake!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

karmatourer said:


> I finally figured out what to compare the A9 downshifts to-a Bolt in L regen-mode. The Cruze doesn't come to a complete stop but it slows down to just just a crawl. Sometimes I'm just a little slow on the uptake!


Bolt or Volt? The Bolt will completely stop, while the Volt will regen down to 2 mph, then you have to use the brake pedal.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Bolt or Volt? The Bolt will completely stop, while the Volt will regen down to 2 mph, then you have to use the brake pedal.


My only experience with a Bolt was a test drive. I guess I never let it come to a complete stop as I was listening to the salesman.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

karmatourer said:


> My only experience with a Bolt was a test drive. I guess I never let it come to a complete stop as I was listening to the salesman.


It's also possible it is only in the higher regen levels, too, but I believe it might be all. It's not exactly orthodox at first anyway, so that wouldn't surprise me if you didn't get to do that, I probably wouldn't have.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

MP81 said:


> It's also possible it is only in the higher regen levels, too, but I believe it might be all. It's not exactly orthodox at first anyway, so that wouldn't surprise me if you didn't get to do that, I probably wouldn't have.


I think I read on a Bolt forum a few months ago that if the gear selection or whatever it's called in left in L instead of D,it will indeed bring you to a stop and make 1 pedal driving possible.But then again I'm elderly and I probably need to google it to be sure.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

karmatourer said:


> I think I read on a Bolt forum a few months ago that if the gear selection or whatever it's called in left in L instead of D,it will indeed bring you to a stop and make 1 pedal driving possible.But then again I'm elderly and I probably need to google it to be sure.


Yes, L enables one pedal driving - it (basically) does on my Volt, as well, aside from the aforementioned 2mph regen limit. You can adjust the level of regen as well, and then the paddle is behind the wheel, as well.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Yes, L enables one pedal driving - it (basically) does on my Volt, as well, aside from the aforementioned 2mph regen limit. You can adjust the level of regen as well, and then the paddle is behind the wheel, as well.


I didn't mean to go off topic,but I just found this about regen:Chevy Bolt EV Regenerative Braking Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJgmrI1naU&feature=youtu.be
*[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]*​Pretty interesting to me.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

I like the 9 speed alot more than the 6 speed in my 2015.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Yes, L enables one pedal driving - it (basically) does on my Volt, as well, aside from the aforementioned 2mph regen limit. You can adjust the level of regen as well, and then the paddle is behind the wheel, as well.



When I had my 17' Volt I would have really liked to be able to adjust the regen settings or even better and adjustable regen paddle instead of the on-off switch they have.

I did get really good at hitting the regen paddle at the right time to basically bring the car down to 2mph at the perfect time to hit the light on my daily commute home. *was late at night and no traffic*


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

After another week or two of driving yeah. I will most definitely be changing some logic once the TCU is unlocked and capable of being custom adjusted.

The first change for me will be 8th gear ~35mph under low load conditions and will reduce the aggressiveness of the 8 > 7 shift logic.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Well, I have not my new 2018 Cruze TD for long, but I can already say that the new 9T50 is much smoother operating then the former AF40-6 Aisin in my 2014 Cruze TD. The down shifts are much less harsh.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Yep, I've had the car plenty long enough to make improvements to the shift logic once I have software that will allow this. *HPTuners or EFILive*

There's certain speeds I am often forced to cruise at where it could easily go to the next gear but simply refuses to due to the logic programmed in it.

Also when slowing to an almost stop then accelerating again the logic thinks i'm going for power and just takes way too long to go into the upshift sequence.

It'll hang at 3000+ rpms for far, far too long when it decides i'm going for power, which I am not. I don't even have to do roll into the throttle quickly for the TCM to make this decision.

Overall the transmission feels good so far.

Just needs refining in it's logic.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> Also when slowing to an almost stop then accelerating again the logic thinks i'm going for power and just takes way too long to go into the upshift sequence. It'll hang at 3000+ rpms for far, far too long when it decides i'm going for power, which I am not. I don't even have to do roll into the throttle quickly for the TCM to make this decision.


The 6AT does this too, and it's quite annoying. Or hangs onto 2nd uphill while it's buzzing away at 3000 RPM.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

firehawk618 said:


> Yep, I've had the car plenty long enough to make improvements to the shift logic once I have software that will allow this. *HPTuners or EFILive*
> 
> There's certain speeds I am often forced to cruise at where it could easily go to the next gear but simply refuses to due to the logic programmed in it.
> 
> ...


Do you think there will be any aftermarket support for the 1.6 ? This is the third model year and so far NOTHING.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Do you think there will be any aftermarket support for the 1.6 ? This is the third model year and so far NOTHING.



Yes I believe there will be IF GM uses that transmission in more vehicles.


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## theonearmedman (Oct 26, 2018)

TDCruze said:


> Well, I have not my new 2018 Cruze TD for long, but I can already say that the new 9T50 is much smoother operating then the former AF40-6 Aisin in my 2014 Cruze TD. The down shifts are much less harsh.


I hate the transmission. It shifts way too high for a diesel like 2100 rmps and it kills the mpgs. I have a Chevy Colorado diesel and that only shifts at very low rpm.

My Cruze diesel maybe gets 600 km on a tank and my Colorado will get 900-1100km

Hope there will be some tuners for this car


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The 1.6L has a higher redline than the larger 2.8L in the Colorado - and the Colorado has a much larger fuel tank, so...yep.

2100 rpm as a shift point is quite low - the 2.0L in the 1st gen CTD doesn't shift until about 2500.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

theonearmedman said:


> I hate the transmission. It shifts way too high for a diesel like 2100 rmps and it kills the mpgs. I have a Chevy Colorado diesel and that only shifts at very low rpm.
> 
> My Cruze diesel maybe gets 600 km on a tank and my Colorado will get 900-1100km
> 
> Hope there will be some tuners for this car


It shifts lower than the Gen 1 diesel Cruze and it does not over-rev past the power band when passing like the Gen 1 did either. 
I have gained about 6 MPG over the Gen 1 diesel Cruze as well. 

I am getting much better than 600km per tank, but not as good as the Gen 1 diesel. However, the tank on the Gen 2 is a bit smaller than the Gen 1. 
But, it is worth it to get the spare tire back and the DEF tank out of the trunk. 

I do still hope that an aftermarket tune becomes available. More so because I still find the Auto-Stop-Start annoying.


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## sleepyzzz (Nov 2, 2018)

being a newbie this may have been covered, but I watched a video review where the guy put the gear selector in L, then shifted to 9 before driving to over ride auto stop. Will this hurt the tranny?


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

sleepyzzz said:


> being a newbie this may have been covered, but I watched a video review where the guy put the gear selector in L, then shifted to 9 before driving to over ride auto stop. Will this hurt the tranny?


Nope, trans will shift as normal. Many here have been doing this for years without adverse effect.


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## MnAviator (Dec 8, 2013)

Relatively new to the world of Chevy Diesels. 

Wondering who manufactures the 9T50 transmission? Is it a GM product? 

Also - assuming the new 2019 diesels are not available in a manual, correct?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MnAviator said:


> Relatively new to the world of Chevy Diesels.
> 
> Wondering who manufactures the 9T50 transmission? Is it a GM product?
> 
> Also - assuming the new 2019 diesels are not available in a manual, correct?


Yes. It was a GM/Ford design collaboration, but GM makes the 9-speed in-house. Ford said 9 gears was too many, and changed their design to an 8-speed.

Yep, can't get the manual for 2019. There might be some 18's still out there on lots in the configuration you want, though. I would recommend against it - the diesel manuals seem to be having flywheel/slave cyl issues...often.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Yes. It was a GM/Ford design collaboration, but GM makes the 9-speed in-house. Ford said 9 gears was too many, and changed their design to an 8-speed.


And based on the reviews - the 9AT is the better of the two. Maybe Ford should have realized 9-speeds was fine (especially given the GM/Ford 9-speed is far better than the ZF 9-speed already in existence)...


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

I thought that Ford had rejected the design after the fact and made their own? 

I was driving home last night in some snow covered roads. Going down hill, coasting slightly applying the brakes and the car couldnt decided whether to stay in a higher gear or shift down. 

It almost felt like you were constantly letting in and out on a clutch.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

The 9 speed seems to be a very good transmission, and with the Diesel it uses that 9th gear at highway speed. I also have a manual. Overall similar MPG for both, the Auto has a lower final drive and RPM on the highway. The manual is I. The shop right now with a busted dual mass flywheel 12k miles.. so the is that. It's fun to drive the manual.. but the flywheel is a legitimate concern 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

HondaTech2016 said:


> ...and the car couldnt decided whether to stay in a higher gear or shift down.
> 
> It almost felt like you were constantly letting in and out on a clutch.


That's my expectation for any car with more than 5 or 6 forward gears. The more gears, the closer the shift points, so more frequent shifting when driving at anything but a constant speed.

My take is that the extra gears help the corporate average fuel economy (CAFE), which is good for the car maker, but I doubt that the extra gears (7-10) do anything to improve customer satisfaction. 

Doug

.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

MP81 said:


> And based on the reviews - the 9AT is the better of the two. Maybe Ford should have realized 9-speeds was fine (especially given the GM/Ford 9-speed is far better than the ZF 9-speed already in existence)...


The same was true of the 6F35. Ford can't program a transmission for crap. The Escapes we've owned have been freaking infuriating in the 45 mph range where it can't decide if it should be in 3rd, 4th unlocked, or 4th locked and lugging, so constantly alternates between the 3.



> thought that Ford had rejected the design after the fact and made their own?
> 
> I was driving home last night in some snow covered roads. Going down hill, coasting slightly applying the brakes and the car couldnt decided whether to stay in a higher gear or shift down.


They rejected the 9 speed design and modified the design for 8 gears instead. Said it wasn't needed (it's cheaper to produce the 8 speed).

The downhill braking assist on my gas Cruze is a little weird. Sometimes it will drop a gear, sometimes 2, and sometimes nothing at all. I guess it depends how hard/long you hit the brakes and if it's significantly picking up speed without braking.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> The downhill braking assist on my gas Cruze is a little weird. Sometimes it will drop a gear, sometimes 2, and sometimes nothing at all. I guess it depends how hard/long you hit the brakes and if it's significantly picking up speed without braking.



Maybe it uses input from the yaw sensor in it's decision?

I posted this on another thread> here but seems relevant to this thread.

I can see why Ford decided against the 9 speed.

If you watch your 9 speeds current gear with a scan tool or scan gauge you'll see that under most driving conditions it skips 2nd gear *or was it 3rd it skips?* so basically functions as an 8 speed.

The only time I have witnessed my car roll through all 9 gears was under WOT and I believe with the torque these engines make it would accelerate the same or maybe even slightly quicker under WOT with less gears.

Each time the car shifts it briefly cuts back the torque *torque management* to make the transmission last longer.

Less shifting + fat torque = quicker acceleration.

I will still use HP Tuners to change my transmissions behavior if they ever decide to offer tuning abilities on our TCMs.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

firehawk618 said:


> Maybe it uses input from the yaw sensor in it's decision?
> 
> I posted this on another thread> here but seems relevant to this thread.
> 
> ...


Yes, probably the yaw sensor. Mine's a 2016, so maybe they ironed out the shift logic a bit more later on.

The ZF 9 speed (hot garbage in anything it's used in, btw) hardly ever uses the 9th gear in most 4 cylinder products either unless you're going well over 80 mph.

Having driven the ZF 8 speed (phenomenal transmission), I really think 8 gears is plenty for most US drivers. Shifts are smooth and ironed out, and it is usually in the right gear at the right moment. The Honda 10-speed seems a bit confused at times. Haven't driven the GM/Ford 10-spd yet, but the close ratio spread in those is probably well suited to towing/hauling duty in trucks.

You asked in the other thread whether it was software or hardware differences between the Ford/GM 8/9 speed - Ford dropped one of the gears internally. Cheaper to manufacturer as well. The 6T/6F transmissions were also jointly developed, and they've been used by both automakers since ~2007.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> The ZF 9 speed (hot garbage in anything it's used in, btw) hardly ever uses the 9th gear in most 4 cylinder products either unless you're going well over 80 mph.


And generally only if you're coasting, going downhill. I know in the 2.4L applications in FCA vehicles, I don't believe it ever gets into 9th gear at all, even downhill, coasting, on the freeway.

I think the only good application of that transmission, across the global market for said transmission, is the Chrysler Pacifica. That vehicle, specifically, actually seems to get compliments about the transmission - usually accompanied by surprise, given what transmission it is.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

plano-doug said:


> That's my expectation for any car with more than 5 or 6 forward gears. The more gears, the closer the shift points, so more frequent shifting when driving at anything but a constant speed.
> 
> My take is that the extra gears help the corporate average fuel economy (CAFE), which is good for the car maker, but I doubt that the extra gears (7-10) do anything to improve customer satisfaction.
> 
> ...


That was my impression with these newer high gear transmission when I first started hearing about them. 
I figured they would be shifting all the time and annoying to drive. 
I have not found this GM 9 speed bad to drive. It has been better than 2 previous 6 speed AT I have had in the past. 
It seem to know better what gear to be in and not jump around hunting. Shifts are very smooth and hardly noticeable. 
I can drive 40 MPH in town and be at about 1300 RPM, pretty impressive for a 1.6L engine.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I test drove the gen 2 diesel with 9 speed and it seemed like an improvement over gen 1 transmission in diesel. 

I rented a Ford F-150 crew cab I thought one way to go buy a car in Nashville, ten. The f150 had the 2.7 turbo with the new 10 speed transmission and I loved the combo, got great mileage low to mid 20s with 4 wheel drive, lots of power and the 10 speed matched really well. I didn’t buy the car so I drove back to Indy all in one day, so like 650 miles, the truck was impressive.. I wouldn’t buy a new f150 w/o the 10 speed.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Here's proof we might as well have an 8 speed. 8 is all it uses unless you shift manually.

The ratio change from 2-3 is trash and might as well not even exist.

That small of a ratio change is only usable in a heavy truck. Think Eaton Fuller 18 speed and such.

WOT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpguiEBbUR4


Light acceleration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOq6eVtz0_Q


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> I test drove the gen 2 diesel with 9 speed and it seemed like an improvement over gen 1 transmission in diesel.


My 4T45 is an improvement over the AF40-6 in the CTD. Most of the times it's fine, but sometimes it can just be a giant god **** moron. I really, generally, do not like that transmission. 

It's probably leaked all it's fluid out again or something.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

firehawk618 said:


> Here's proof we might as well have an 8 speed. 8 is all it uses unless you shift manually.
> 
> The ratio change from 2-3 is trash and might as well not even exist.
> 
> ...


OK sorry I was misunderstanding your previous post about the 8 speeds. 

I wonder if accelerating up a steeper hill if it would go into 3rd gear?
Maybe, as you stated the ratio is not useful/beneficial under most normal conditions?


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

I suppose if there were 4k+ of weight being towed by the car then the tiny ratio change in the 2-3 shift would be beneficial.

My feeling is GM programmed that 3rd gear to make it a 9 speed strictly for marketing hype.




TDCruze said:


> OK sorry I was misunderstanding your previous post about the 8 speeds.
> 
> I wonder if accelerating up a steeper hill if it would go into 3rd gear?
> Maybe, as you stated the ratio is not useful/beneficial under most normal conditions?


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

firehawk618 said:


> I suppose if there were 4k+ of weight being towed by the car then the tiny ratio change in the 2-3 shift would be beneficial.
> 
> My feeling is GM programmed that 3rd gear to make it a 9 speed strictly for marketing hype.


They are also using this transmission in heavier vehicles and some that may tow as well. 

I am sure there is a bit of marketing hype in there too, but so far the new 9 and 10 speed GM/Ford transmission
seem to be getting rave reviews.

We shall see how they hold up in time. 

I wonder if the 10 speed transmissions also skip gears?


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

TDCruze said:


> firehawk618 said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose if there were 4k+ of weight being towed by the car then the tiny ratio change in the 2-3 shift would be beneficial.
> ...


They do however I do not know if they skip them under heavy acceleration.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

I could ride my brakes and try a wot run to see if it will use third. That would simulate a heavy load.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Tonight on my way to work I went ahead and applied the brakes as I took off from a stop at WOT.

Still doesn't use 3rd at all.


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## coalminer (Oct 31, 2018)

Its possible that 3rd gear is only used for downshifting into, similar to the Chrysler 6 speeds have 2 4th gears.

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/62TE.html


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## Binder_Brandon (Jan 20, 2019)

firehawk618 said:


> Here's proof we might as well have an 8 speed. 8 is all it uses unless you shift manually.
> 
> The ratio change from 2-3 is trash and might as well not even exist.
> 
> ...


Where can I find a list of your X-Gauge codes? The diesel board from our Canadian distributor but STM and other gauges still aren’t working... any help is greatly appreciated! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

I believe I either started a thread here regarding the scan gauge and x-codes or I replied to an existing thread. There was no interest so I don't think I posted them.

Let me know if you find that thread, if so link it here and I'll reply on it and add the codes so it's in a place where others can find it.

One thing about this forum is the search engine is terrible.



Binder_Brandon said:


> Where can I find a list of your X-Gauge codes? The diesel board from our Canadian distributor but STM and other gauges still aren’t working... any help is greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Binder_Brandon (Jan 20, 2019)

firehawk618 said:


> I believe I either started a thread here regarding the scan gauge and x-codes or I replied to an existing thread. There was no interest so I don't think I posted them.
> 
> Let me know if you find that thread, if so link it here and I'll reply on it and add the codes so it's in a place where others can find it.
> 
> One thing about this forum is the search engine is terrible.



The only ones that don't work are Gear related, STM, and Regen status... Thanks a bunch!

https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/418...5210-2nd-gen-diesel-scan-gauge-x-codes-2.html


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## ganthc (May 25, 2018)

I'm generally pleased with the 9A in my '18 Cruze Diesel. It is barely noticeable in most of my driving and is a big improvement over the 6A I had in my '13 Sonic. The only times it "misbehaves" is when I am going downhill and coasting, it stays in a high rev range, or if I am coasting to a turn, and then try to accelerate after turning. But I just deal with it, because once the accelerator pedal is pushed for a bit, the transmission finds its rightful place. As far as stop/start, I have not minded it at all. It is a little annoying in a parking lot, but the start is so seamless, it isn't really that much of an annoyance. Also, I like to keep my cabin as cold as a meat locker, so that might prevent the start/stop from activating as much.


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## firehawk618 (Feb 24, 2013)

Binder_Brandon said:


> The only ones that don't work are Gear related, STM, and Regen status... Thanks a bunch!
> 
> https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/418...5210-2nd-gen-diesel-scan-gauge-x-codes-2.html


Sorry I forgot about your question.

I will post up my list of working codes real soon. They're in my car written down.


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