# My turn for a water pump!



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Well at least it happened before Lordstown; unfortunately it happened 300 miles from home where there are no dealers open Sundays. Checked the coolant Friday before I left and it was full.


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## sparkman (Oct 15, 2015)

Woohoo! Haha 

Yeah, good thing it happened before Lordstown. How many miles you at?


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## weimerrj (Dec 4, 2011)

Very interested in the mileage factor. My daughter's 1LT had the WP go at about 80K. I have 66K on my current Eco without problems so far. 


Good thing is it's a extended warranty part.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I had to replace my water pump around 40K miles. Mileage doesn't appear to be a factor. These are just poorly designed.


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## Gus_Mahn (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm struggling with this myself. My daughter is home from college for the summer. Her school is 1000 miles from home, and her '12 Eco has 56,000 miles. I think I'm going to install a WP even though it's not leaking as a maintenance item. Hopefully the parts in the GM system are an improved design. Is there a better than OE aftermarket replacement?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

45500 miles. 4 years old. 

Puddle is HUGE today.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Was discussing this with my Son who's in the auto supply design, engineering, testing, etc. business and we both are very puzzled by the Cruze WP issues. Granted it's a small, turbo, engine, but it's still a water pump. Something that's been around the internal combustion engine world for so many decades and how many millions of engines? Has anyone ever learned what is failing with these? And why does it keep failing?


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## cruze01 (Mar 25, 2011)

Gus_Mahn said:


> I'm struggling with this myself. My daughter is home from college for the summer. Her school is 1000 miles from home, and her '12 Eco has 56,000 miles. I think I'm going to install a WP even though it's not leaking as a maintenance item. Hopefully the parts in the GM system are an improved design. Is there a better than OE aftermarket replacement?


Not sure if they improved it or not but I am on my third pump now, the factory pump went at around 17k, the second one was somewhere in the 30k range but never started leaking, it whistled! The third one that is on now has been there for about two years and 30K miles, it may have been an improved design. Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> Was discussing this with my Son who's in the auto supply design, engineering, testing, etc. business and we both are very puzzled by the Cruze WP issues. Granted it's a small, turbo, engine, but it's still a water pump. Something that's been around the internal combustion engine world for so many decades and how many millions of engines? Has anyone ever learned what is failing with these? And why does it keep failing?


I agree - not a complicated part. Toyota had issues with pumps on their 2.4L engines a few years back as well. I am wondering if it has something to do with the serpentine tensioner or belt routing putting stress on the pump bearing. I had been using the AC off and on on the trip down for the first time this year. 

To others - supposedly it has been redesigned/revised. I do not know think that it has helped the failure rate significantly.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Other than a 'I am told updated in some way' pump, the TTY bolt torque spec has been changed three times.....most recent about a year ago.

Whatever was in the printed manual no longer applies and the newest specs are shown on GM global.

Requires the use of a rather high tech torque wrench that measures degrees of travel after the specified torque is met......(inch pounds.)

Rob


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

I had a water pump fail back in 2014 in my 2011, simple fix engine was smooth ever since, good luck with yours.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

My cruze had a constant loss of coolant since 20K, as well as coolant smell at times. It was never allot, would put 10oz of coolant in tank every fall but nothing the dealer could locate. I noticed it was very low at 94K, topped it off and in less than a week was already low again. Not only that it was either the serpentine belt slipping on all that coolant or the pump bearing started to make a loud metal on metal squeal sound at times. 

First time I heard the sound It happened for 10 seconds and immediately stopped, figured I had a rock caught in caliper. After the second time when it did it at start up(not driving), I investigated and found coolant everywhere around the waterpump. Pump replaced at 94K.


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## Yates (Aug 24, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Well at least it happened before Lordstown; unfortunately it happened 300 miles from home where there are no dealers open Sundays. Checked the coolant Friday before I left and it was full.
> 
> View attachment 193082
> 
> ...


Were you adding fluid on a regular basis? My 2012 tops off with maybe a quarter inch of antifreeze about every three months. Of course the dealership said this won't become a problem as long as it doesn't get real low. I remain skeptical.


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## devoh (Apr 15, 2016)

Hey ya'll. I have about 80k on my Cruze, and haven't had a problem with the WP yet. I was just wondering how will I know if it is going bad? I am about to drive from Illinois to Seattle in a week and don't want to encounter any problems. The levels in the reservoir look normal and I haven't noticed any leaks. Is there a way to test it to make sure its good?


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Yates said:


> My 2012 tops off with maybe a quarter inch of antifreeze about every three months._* Of course the dealership said this won't become a problem as long as it doesn't get real low. *_I remain skeptical.


I find this perplexing. My '92 Saturn never used AF in the 11 years we owned it. My '97 vehicle never consumed any AF in the 16 years I owned it. The radiator was always full. My '03 hasn't used any AF in the 13 years we've owned it, even after thermostat change and flush in year 10. My current '13 ride has used none either. My cars get fluids checked the first of every month. Why is it OK for the Cruze to use AF to the point it needs topping off every 3 months?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Yates said:


> Were you adding fluid on a regular basis? My 2012 tops off with maybe a quarter inch of antifreeze about every three months. Of course the dealership said this won't become a problem as long as it doesn't get real low. I remain skeptical.


No, almost never - a small top up a couple months ago for fluid that was maybe 1/2" below where it was 3 years ago. It hadn't dropped since then until now, when the tank is completely empty.

The first year, I was losing from about the top to bottom of the arrow on the tank worth of fluid every few months and occasionally got a whiff of hot coolant. I replaced the cap and haven't had an issue until now.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

devoh said:


> Hey ya'll. I have about 80k on my Cruze, and haven't had a problem with the WP yet. I was just wondering how will I know if it is going bad? I am about to drive from Illinois to Seattle in a week and don't want to encounter any problems. The levels in the reservoir look normal and I haven't noticed any leaks. Is there a way to test it to make sure its good?


Not really. Like I said, mine went without warning. No noises, no coolant loss. The pulley doesn't look like it's doing anything weird. It's just a good thing to check regularly.

My brother actually noticed the smell from the side he was sitting on, and my dad noticed the puddle in the driveway after backing out. No signs of anything wrong before the trip down here.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Robby said:


> Other than a 'I am told updated in some way' pump, the TTY bolt torque spec has been changed three times.....most recent about a year ago.
> 
> Whatever was in the printed manual no longer applies and the newest specs are shown on GM global.
> 
> ...



Shop manual states.

"Install the 5 water pump bolts (4) and the 5 engine front cover bolts (3) and tighten in a cross sequence to *8 Nm (71 lb in)"


So exactly what changed, and what is this torque to yield?*


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

NickD said:


> * and what is this torque to yield?*


Wikipedia.

In practical terms, it's a single-use bolt. You loosen it, you replace it. Torquing it down involves tightening it to to a specific torque, and then turning it a certain number of degrees past that. You'll notice that spec throughout your Cruze manual - something like "10 ft lbs + 30 degrees". 

You're going to have to add a torque angle meter to your toolbox.

Or, you could go for the tried and true method - toque it until it breaks, then back off half a turn. 

I'd like to see Robbie's recommendation for tools, since I need to get one as well.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

ChevyGuy said:


> Wikipedia.
> 
> In practical terms, it's a single-use bolt. You loosen it, you replace it. Torquing it down involves tightening it to to a specific torque, and then turning it a certain number of degrees past that. You'll notice that spec throughout your Cruze manual - something like "10 ft lbs + 30 degrees".
> 
> ...


Certainly know what toque to yield to means, been dealing with this since aluminum replaced cast iron in engine heads. Another more accurate statement on these bolts are overpriced and throwaway. And the solution they came up with to attempt to keep the head gasket tight when slapping on an aluminum head that has seven times the thermal expansion rate of the cast iron engine block it was installed on. Not to mention with even minor engine over heating, this head can crack. New problems that were never problems before.

But we are talking about the water pump, not the engine head. And the shop manual doesn't say a thing about using new bolts, just using the old bolts providing the heads don't break off when trying to remove them. Another new problem by using cold rolled steel bolts in aluminum. Just torque the old bolts in a cross pattern to 71 inch pounds, or pound inches, take your choice, still a product, doesn't make any difference if inches or pounds come first.

Another new problem that was never a problem before is the single belt drive system, on a vehicle like my old 72 Fleetwood, five separate belts were used. Even had the AC idler pulley seizing up on a long trip, but had its own belt break due to a limited lubricated ball bearing. But the other four belts were good, could still drive it. With a signal belt drive system, if that belt brakes, you are dead.

Granted, they were a pain, needed a pry bar, and a belt tensioner gauge to properly adjust each belt. My 454 CID and Toyota Surpa uses just three belts.

04 Cavalier was not much of a problem with a single belt, water pump and PS steering pump was driven by the engine timing chain, that left the AC compressor and the alternator as the only driven components, but still dumb, the alternator would quit working if the AC compressor bearing would seen. Least with a good battery, could drive over an hour, but would be nice if the alternator had it own belt. You won't die without AC.

Cruze did get rid of the PS pump, but put the water pump back in the single belt drive system. Each and every component see the same load, the major culprit is the AC compressor itself. Usually the first item to go in these things is the tensioner pulley, has a very tiny bearing compared to what is used in the compressor. In theory at least, all bearings should be the same exact size, screw theory. 

One advantage the Cruze has is an electronically control variable displacement compressor that put the minimum load on the belt in cooler temperatures. Willing to bet the people having a warm climate are the ones with the most water pump problems. Heck last year, we only used the AC twice and that is with the wife abroad, hardly ever use it myself. Another load is the alternator, as far as I am concerned the rear window defroster doesn't even exist. But with AC not only the compressor, but the blower motor is adding an additional belt load putting extra stress on it, little thing sucks 22 amperes.

Apparently the water pump bearing is the culprit, gets sloppy and stresses the neoprene seal, is back driven by the belt, but still sees the same tension as the rest of the stuff.

And you cannot drive these things with low coolant. Can get gasket leaks as well, never take the time to clean off the old gasket, but leakage occurs at the gasket joint. Put over 320K miles on my 65 Buick and never had water pump problems that does prove, GM at one time knew how to design a good one.

With multiple sourcing going on today, no telling which vendor is making the poorest pumps that is why I state buying a brand new vehicle is like buying a lottery ticket. Are you feeling lucky?

Would last longer if you left your AC off plus all the electrical loads on the alternator. 

So are the new pumps coming with TTY bolts? And is this the problem with leaky water pumps? Or is it that very limited lubricated ball bearing inside of the pump the problem? Also this bearing is seeing the most heat with super high coolant temperatures, this will cause the grease inside to dry up much quicker.

One thing for sure, once it goes, you will be stranded.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

The newest version pumps come with new bolts and a gasket.....the original PN came with nothing but a pump and the gasket and bolts had to ordered seperatly (dumb.....who replaces a pump without a gasket?)
So, as presented to me, the first part number change came about because the bolts and gasket came in the box with the pump.
It had been determined that secondary failures were the result of mechanics re-using the bolts and by doing so, the clamping force was not evenly distributed.
The next part number change (I am told) was the result of a production specification change for the pump itself.
This is a rather vague term that can be a supplier change, a sub component change (ie different bearings or mechanical seal or the any other component that makes up the pump).

Nick......I don't have specifics but two of the fastener starting torque, prior to the X degrees of yield, have been changed (increased).

So, to those needing an example......3 of the five bolts torque to 71in.lb....2 torqued to 78in.lb....all five, add 30 degrees beyond this torque.

Somebody asked about the torque wrenches....I have only seen Snap-Ons versions.....naturally they are expensive.
They are battery powered.....you set the torque....it beeps.....you dial in how many degrees additional, put it back on the fastener, tighten further and it will again beep at 30 degrees (for this example) travel from the start point. 

I didn't think manufacturers could make auto service more difficult than it was.......I was wrong.

Rob


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Robby, I think I've seen you mention that you've got another car with a pump that weeps a bit when cold, then goes right away once warm.

This one seems to do that too...didn't lose anything from the tank on the way to the dealer 30 mins away; only leaks quite a LOT when cold.

Guess it would have been fine to make the trip back and then get it into the dealer back home, but oh well.


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

Robby said:


> The newest version pumps come with new bolts and a gasket.....the original PN came with nothing but a pump and the gasket and bolts had to ordered seperatly (dumb.....who replaces a pump without a gasket?)
> So, as presented to me, the first part number change came about because the bolts and gasket came in the box with the pump.
> It had been determined that secondary failures were the result of mechanics re-using the bolts and by doing so, the clamping force was not evenly distributed.
> The next part number change (I am told) was the result of a production specification change for the pump itself.
> ...


 LOL - did they include a rubber chicken in the new part number to wave over the water pump after installation.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Calling it a water pump assembly now, but cannot seem to find what's in the box? Price tag sure went up!


COOLING SYSTEM / COOLING / WATER PUMP / Water pump assy   *  55486342 - Water pump assy
1.4 LITER TURBO *

*MSRP**Core* ?*Online Price**$243.96**$0.00**$136.62


*
 
What, they don't want the core back? Most expensive part of the pump, but maybe the increased the size of the ball bearing 1 mm, so won't work any more, rest of it has to fit the engine.

Text refers to fig one, this is figure 1.










At least you get one bolt, better than none. More than likely some mechanic didn't clean off the old gasket or forgot to torque the bolts. So a nerd type engineer said, we better go to TTY bolts. Ha, that won't cure the problem.

Here is that Snap-on TTY digital torque wrench.










Only 560 bucks, think I will stick with my old analog ones, those ones that make a loud crack noise scare me to death. Don't know if that loud crack came from the wrench or the head cracking.

For degrees, will duct tape a 15 cent protractor to it. But so have can accurately judge degrees of rotation, +/- a couple of degrees.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> Robby, I think I've seen you mention that you've got another car with a pump that weeps a bit when cold, then goes right away once warm.
> 
> This one seems to do that too...didn't lose anything from the tank on the way to the dealer 30 mins away; only leaks quite a LOT when cold.
> 
> Guess it would have been fine to make the trip back and then get it into the dealer back home, but oh well.


At spring startup, after storage (my heated hangar) both my Impala SS's (95 and 96) will dribble a bit from the weep holes for maybe 15 minutes.........that is the only time they drool for the entire summer and following storage period.
I contend the mechanical seal faces need to (lack of a better term) re burnish?

These are a odd ball camshaft driven water pump.......many, many were replaced for this condition, only to have a replay the following spring.

Trust me on this though, the Cruze setup will not heal itself.

Rob


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Robby said:


> At spring startup, after storage (my heated hangar) both my Impala SS's (95 and 96) will dribble a bit from the weep holes for maybe 15 minutes.........that is the only time they drool for the entire summer and following storage period.
> I contend the mechanical seal faces need to (lack of a better term) re burnish?
> 
> These are a odd ball camshaft driven water pump.......many, many were replaced for this condition, only to have a replay the following spring.
> ...


Nor will it apparently show on a pressure test...?

However, the mechanic left it running for a bit in the air, and did indeed see where it was leaking.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

I noticed that Gates now makes an aftermarket part for the 1.4L water pumps. 

I wonder if this is an improved design over OEM? 

The part description mentions a metal gasket seal. 

I think Delco is an old fashion paper type gasket, not a molded rubber one. 

The price via the Rockauto catalog is a lot cheaper at $50 for the gates, but I'm guessing doesn't include any bolts, or the thermostat gasket, which probably should be replaced when doing this project.

Any tricks for supporting the engine, other than a floor jack on the oil pan, or a cherry picker from above for this type of project? 

While I don't have a gusher like the OP, I can see dried coolant around the bolt heads. This maybe on my summer car care list. If it's summer I may take care of the issue, if I wait until winter and it leaks more significantly then it may go in. 

I don't have a dealer around me that I really care to deal with. 5 years and not an issue goes to show Lordstown's quality. Honestly, I'm somewhat leary that I'll get the same car back. ECM tunes, Slash Shield, Brake Switch and whatever else they may touch. 

I'll be pulling the splash shield this spring to do a cleaning, maybe there's a place to support the engine other than on the oil pan itself. That seems like a way to create oil pan seal leaks to me, but I'm sure I'm over analyzing.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Puddle is HUGE today.


Sup -J. I mean, we always knew you made her wet, but you neglected to tell us she's a squirter!


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Robby said:


> I don't have specifics but two of the fastener starting torque, prior to the X degrees of yield, have been changed (increased).
> 
> So, to those needing an example......3 of the five bolts torque to 71in.lb....2 torqued to 78in.lb....all five, add 30 degrees beyond this torque.
> 
> ...


So there are two different torque limits for the water pump housing? I wonder how may Chevrolet "Certified Service Technicians" are aware of that requirement and could that be a reason for the ongoing issues?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

All fixed up. 

My new pump is Canadian, eh. Big ol Canadian leaf on it. 

Good for another 50,000 miles?!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> ...didn't lose anything from the tank on the way to the dealer 30 mins away; only leaks quite a LOT when cold.


Yeah, my old Corsica could do that. It leaks only under the right conditions. It seems to seal itself under pressure. Of course, I only had to convince myself what needed to be done, never had to do anything to prove the problem to a dealer. Tell them to keep it overnight over a clean floor. They'll find it.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> My new pump is Canadian, eh. Big ol Canadian leaf on it.
> 
> Good for another 50,000 miles?!


Miles?? 80,000 Km :grin:


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

I wonder if mine is Canadian too? I'm on my 3rd pump and 2nd thermostat as of January. 

Not saying gates is bad, in the Subaru community they seem to fail at the same rate as our Cruze ones do.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

How about replacing that single sheave harmonic balancer with a dual sheave one, and adding a second belt just to drive the water pump?

Would sure take that heavy belt load off of it. 

Another thing that really loads a pump is that impeller trying to push coolant in this case with a closed thermostat. Like with a deep well water pump where the pressure switch contacts weld. The load on the motor is so heavy, stalls, and with luck will kick out the protective circuit breaker. This high pressure can also be responsible for blowing the seal

In a sense when you think about how they are doing this, its stupid and just asking for problems. 

How about getting rid of the thermostat, another problem when that wax chamber starts to leak, and using a brushless variable speed motor instead. And controlled it with a thermistor. When the engine is first started up, this pump will not run at all. No difference in coolant flow as it is now, still no coolant flow with a closed thermostat, except the engine driven if undergoing a severe strain at this point. The speed of an electric pump can be made in proportion to the engine temperature control needs to maintain a constant temperature.

The thing is, most engineers don't think of what they are trying to accomplish, and today think more in terms of how to make it cheaper. This engine driven water pump technology is well over a hundred years old!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

NickD said:


> Another thing that really loads a pump is that impeller trying to push coolant in this case with a closed thermostat.


I'd have to find a engine to look at, but I suspect the pump, engine water jacket and radiator are all in parallel - not series. With the thermostat closed, water circulates though the engine. With it open, the cooled water mixes with the hot water from the engine block. You're not pumping outside air temp coolant into the water jacket.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

ChevyGuy said:


> I'd have to find a engine to look at, but I suspect the pump, engine water jacket and radiator are all in parallel - not series. With the thermostat closed, water circulates though the engine. With it open, the cooled water mixes with the hot water from the engine block. You're not pumping outside air temp coolant into the water jacket.


You are correct, has to be some coolant flow for the very fact are getting heater core heat well below the thermostat opening temperature. If it even closes all the way.

Previously in even GM shop manuals would show a schematic diagram of the cooling system with arrows on it showing the direction of flow. But sure not in the Cruze manual, want to keep us guessing.

Water pump only appears to have one inlet and one outlet, assuming the output is connected directly to the thermostat, this is an upsidedown photo of it.










Assuming the right side is the inlet, this comes from a tee at the lower heater core hose, other side of this tee goes directly into the recovery tank. Assuming the left side is the outlet, goes directly into the thermostat that has a large hose going directly into the radiator with only one inlet and outlet. Outlet goes directly in the rear of the engine block. A tap below it has a heater hose that goes into the top coupling of the heater core.

In what direction the coolant is flowing is a guess. But sure cannot deny the Cruze is having water pump problems, so maybe is a belt loading problem. Looked at mine with 45K miles on it. Just seeing what looks like Dex-cool sweat below the pump sheave. Sure that sweat will change into drips until it pours out. 

Would have to remove all the components, study the insides to make a flow chart, but would think GM would do this to avoid confusion. Cruze as the worse shop manual ever and really don't have to be told constantly over and over again about common sense safety information. But their attorneys sure think we do. 

Forgot to mention, I hate attorneys.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

BMW tried electric pumps and all that. It was a freaking disaster.

I guess with start stop systems and whatnot we'll see a lot more though.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> BMW tried electric pumps and all that. It was a freaking disaster.
> 
> I guess with start stop systems and whatnot we'll see a lot more though.


BMW also had a disaster with their start/stop system.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

obermd said:


> BMW also had a disaster with their start/stop system.


And direct injection! And turbos! (early 335i)


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Kind of suspected with that large hose leaving the pump, and much smaller hose entering it, main engine water flow is coming from the engine to the rear of the water pump. Found this photo of the timing chain cover, sure looks this way.










A lot depends on the quality of the pump, whether electrical or not, if I considered the sump pump in my basement, still working very well after 31 years, made in the USA. And with all this rain we have been having, been working its can off. 

Have a brand new one sitting next to it, still in the box.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

> A lot depends on the quality of the pump, whether electrical or not, if I considered the sump pump in my basement, still working very well after 31 years, made in the USA. And with all this rain we have been having, been working its can off.
> 
> Have a brand new one sitting next to it, still in the box.


Yeah, but it doesn't have to deal with thermal heat cycling from large temperature swings, nor the other stuff a typical car is subject to.

Even the Bosch electric motors for the secondary air injection system on my old car had a lifespan of ~5-7 years before the darn things would wear out again.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

So did ya get a new 1 installed with out all of the hubballooo from the dealer ?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

brian v said:


> So did ya get a new 1 installed with out all of the hubballooo from the dealer ?


Yep, no issues. Made the 300 mile journey back with no further drama. 

They even gave me a loaded soccer mom mobile as a rental. Needs more engine; the 2.4 feels slower than the Cruze unless you wring its neck. Otherwise, the Equinox reminds me of a Cruze that grew up and got big. 

I laughed when I saw "could not duplicate" after the pressure test on the service order. The dealer I've gone to in the past probably would have stopped there.


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## Sunline Fan (Jul 29, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Yep, no issues. Made the 300 mile journey back with no further drama.
> 
> They even gave me a loaded soccer mom mobile as a rental. Needs more engine; the 2.4 feels slower than the Cruze unless you wring its neck. Otherwise, the Equinox reminds me of a Cruze that grew up and got big.
> 
> ...


Sup -J. I went away...to here.


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## retiredlineman (May 1, 2016)

The dealership recently replaced the water pump on my 2014 Eco Cruze, still under warranty with around 9k miles ( I'm retired and don't drive a whole lot ). I had it back twice for a whistling noise I would hear when I left the engine running to get out and open the garage door. When I went to the service desk to pick up my keys, I ran into the tech who diagnosed and repaired it. He told me they determined it was the water pump by squeezing the upper radiator hose and found that changed the pitch of the whistle. He determined it was a faulty bearing, replaced the pump, and it's been fine since.


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Yep, no issues. Made the 300 mile journey back with no further drama.
> 
> They even gave me a loaded soccer mom mobile as a rental. Needs more engine; the 2.4 feels slower than the Cruze unless you wring its neck. Otherwise, the Equinox reminds me of a Cruze that grew up and got big.
> 
> ...


Like those wheels on the equinox.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> Yep, no issues. Made the 300 mile journey back with no further drama.
> 
> They even gave me a loaded soccer mom mobile as a rental. Needs more engine; the 2.4 feels slower than the Cruze unless you wring its neck. Otherwise, the Equinox reminds me of a Cruze that grew up and got big.
> 
> ...


Yeah VA and CCND is common. VA and MD folks literally would have to limp their cars to NJ to get them fixed. That's how I was with my Subaru since SoA is in Cherry Hill near the dealership.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

This is the major problem with a typical water pump design.










Question of leverage, bearings are way too close together. As say opposed to an alternator, one bearing way up front, other was back in the rear, with the rotor spaced in the center. That much longer shaft really reduces the radial forces on that rear bearing, and the front bearing can be made much larger. 

If they could somehow design a water pump like an alternator, would be far more robust with the rear bearing behind the shaft. But the way it is, like a cantilever with a great rocking force on both the front and rear bearings the way it is. That rocking force stresses the front and rear seals, and is the most common source of coolant leakage. Out the front of the shaft through the front seal.

If the leaks is around the casing, a different problem, poor gasket or loose bolts. But wouldn't be much of a problem if the pump had its own low load drive belt. But God help the stockholders, well help them now, with warranty replacements.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

You aren't considering the backspacing of the pulley.

If the view included the pulley you would note its centerline would be exactly between the two ball bearings.
Neither bearing would experience more load than the other.

An alternator requires a larger front bearing since it is load bearing.....the rear bearing only has to keep the shaft aligned with minimal load being transfered to it.

Rob


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Robby said:


> You aren't considering the backspacing of the pulley.
> 
> If the view included the pulley you would note its centerline would be exactly between the two ball bearings.
> Neither bearing would experience more load than the other.
> ...


Still can't disgree that the Cruze water pump has a high failure rate, would however like to make a correction, that weep hole is where the coolant leaks out, rear seal is going bad, and quite a distance from the bearing.

Front bearing it the pivot point where the maximum stress exists, the further back the rear bearing is from the front bearing, the lot less radial force it sees.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

I've never actually had a water pump fail before this one. We've got a car in the garage from 1974 that has never needed one in my lifetime; I replaced the one on my Volvo @ 140,000 miles/10 years old with the timing belt as preventative maintenance (still spun like new), and the one on the Jeep at 12 years/90K when it needed a radiator. That one on the Volvo now has 100,000 miles on the 2nd pump. Both had bad serpentine belt tensioners and/or idler pulleys, but everything else in the belt path has been fine.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

1965 Buick Electra went over 320K miles on the original water pump and was problem free for the guy I sold it to. Try and top this. GM did know how to design a water pump at one time. Same was true for my 70 Riviera and 73 Fleetwood, but over 200K miles. Then came road salt for these two vehicles.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

NickD said:


> 1965 Buick Electra went over 320K miles on the original water pump and was problem free for the guy I sold it to. Try and top this. GM did know how to design a water pump at one time. Same was true for my 70 Riviera and 73 Fleetwood, but over 200K miles. Then came road salt for these two vehicles.


Done. Never put one in it either, come to think of it.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Ha, nobody mentioned Ford water pump failures with single belt drive systems, seems like I was replacing these every five minutes.

Did by any chance did GM hire a couple of Ford engineers for the Cruze water pump? Oh, they work good with a single drive belt system.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I owned a '69 Camaro for five years and put four water pumps on it. Back then WPs were $25. Bearing seals would leak and take out the bearings. The last two actually spit the balls out on the garage floor. I've not had a car have a WP problem since then. Something is very much amiss with the Cruze WP design/manufacture. Waiting to see how the Gen2 performs.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Back in ht early 90's, everybody was having problems with ball bearings, Made in China was the problem, really don't know if they are doing a better job now. But when I need one, either USA, Canada, or Japan, pay extra, but a heck of a lot cheaper when something breaks down.

Bearings come in ABEC 1 through 9, the 9 being the best, was part of my job to select bearings. A full rated load, 1000 hours was the life for a given bearing. But life would increase exponentially, but either reducing that load or using a larger bearing. In volume purchasing the price difference wasn't that much.

Driving a 50 mph for 50,000 miles is a thousand hours, hail, lets use a cheaper bearing since the warranty is only 36K miles, but even worse at 12,000 miles or one year, whichever came first.

Ha, reading this from an old engineer that cared about consumers, so screw you bean counters, going to pay a couple of cents more. Story is changing now with recalls, one good thing about attorneys.

Another factor is the grease used, sure loved that Wolf's high temperature red bearing grease would last forever. Did open some Chinese bearings, looked and tasted like chicken fat. 

Single belt drives and all this plastic and aluminum used under the hood made this problem much worse. Once that temperature starts climbing, park it.


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## Yates (Aug 24, 2012)

Somebody mentioned replacing the cap. I did notice the last time I checked the fluid level the cap was loose, and I know I properly tightened it the last time I added fluid. There has never been an af smell and I didn't notice dried or spilled fluid around the cap. Is defective af caps a common problem?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Yates said:


> Somebody mentioned replacing the cap. I did notice the last time I checked the fluid level the cap was loose, and I know I properly tightened it the last time I added fluid. There has never been an af smell and I didn't notice dried or spilled fluid around the cap. Is defective af caps a common problem?


Moreso the seals on the cap/tank necks.

Look at the vent on the side - is it full of orange vapor?


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## TrappistOrder (Jul 29, 2020)

Robby said:


> The newest version pumps come with new bolts and a gasket.....the original PN came with nothing but a pump and the gasket and bolts had to ordered seperatly (dumb.....who replaces a pump without a gasket?)
> So, as presented to me, the first part number change came about because the bolts and gasket came in the box with the pump.
> It had been determined that secondary failures were the result of mechanics re-using the bolts and by doing so, the clamping force was not evenly distributed.
> The next part number change (I am told) was the result of a production specification change for the pump itself.
> ...


I know this is a older post but im up to change my pump and this is the closest info i could find online. When you say 3 bolts are 71 and 2 are 78 are you talking about skipping a bolt with each of those torque specs?im just confused at which bolts get which torque specs. The water pump i purchased came with a gasket but no bolts where can i get new bolts online i couldnt find anything.I have a 2011Cruze 1.8 Thank you for any help.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

This majority of this thread is for the 1.4L Turbo water pump. Your talking about the 1.8L. I have not seen a write up for the 1.8L. Just remember to keep track of the holes the bolts come out of. On the 1.4L some bolts are a few milimeters longer than others. Put a long bolt in a short hole and crank down, you will crack the timing cover and go into the block when you tighten it. 

On the 1.4L those values 71-78 are INCH Pounds, which is not that much torque. It doesn't take much torque for this water pump, a 1/4" ratchet should be plenty.


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## TrappistOrder (Jul 29, 2020)

carbon02 said:


> This majority of this thread is for the 1.4L Turbo water pump. Your talking about the 1.8L. I have not seen a write up for the 1.8L. Just remember to keep track of the holes the bolts come out of. On the 1.4L some bolts are a few milimeters longer than others. Put a long bolt in a short hole and crank down, you will crack the timing cover and go into the block when you tighten it.
> 
> On the 1.4L those values 71-78 are INCH Pounds, which is not that much torque. It doesn't take much torque for this water pump, a 1/4" ratchet should be plenty.


Thank you VERY much for this info i dont think i would have not even thought to check the bolt length. Thank you also for some clarification on the Torque specs.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

We're a clean helpful community. Please strongly consider changing your "handle name". People have been banned over names, or the potential intent of a name. I helped you, please clean it up.


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## TrappistOrder (Jul 29, 2020)

carbon02 said:


> We're a clean helpful community. Please strongly consider changing your "handle name". People have been banned over names, or the potential intent of a name. I helped you, please clean it up.


Whats wrong with my name? Its a tribute to the Trappist Monks that brew beer in Belgium. Im 100 % Belgian My Grand parents both came here from Belgium. I also happen to brew beer. Sorry if there was some confusion on the meaning behind it.








Trappist beer - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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