# 2.0 TD turns over but doesn't start. no fuel, no codes



## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

I hope you folks can give me some suggestions. I just replaced the timing belt and all the associated components, new serpentine belt, and thermostat. Motor was running fine for a few days. Wife works as a visiting nurse. She drives 30 miles each way to town then probably racks up another 20-30 miles around town. It ran well for a few days then, toward the end of her work day, with no warning, just wouldn't start. It turns over well and has thrown no codes. She filled the car the day before at our regular station that is I presume a pretty high volume location.

I had it towed back home and have been trying to figure it out. It seems like it is just the low pressure fuel pump but wanted to bounce the particulars off you folks and see if I'm not missing something. Turns over briskly, I swapped the relay with another one that was the same, (cooling fan I think) it seems like they both click after plug them in, I imagine that part is fine. If I disconnect the line where it goes in to the high pressure pump then turn it over, I should have fuel pushing out there, right? I read some people have had a stuck EGR so I took that out and cleaned it but there is nothing that moves on that part that I can see. I'm guessing that I would have a code if the EGR was not working. But I imagine I'd have a code if the low pressure fuel pump failed, too. I just don't know if I should expect that I would have some warning before the pump fails or not. 

A couple years ago we got a bad tank of fuel that had gas in it. I got codes then for fuel filter and pressure sensor. I swapped the filter out and immediately got he same codes. Ended up taking it to the dealer and they threw a few parts at it, like a fuel rail (cuz it had the sensor) and then $700 later, they checked the fuel, found gas in it and it seemed like they offered to clean the tank, replace the fuel lines (cuz they weren't usable if fuel that had gas in it had been run through them, LOL), and change the high pressure pump as it was likely trashed for about $2500 and then see where to go from there. I was in shock and took it home to see what I could do myself.

I dropped the tank and rinsed it out with some fresh diesel, verified the LPFP was working replaced the filter, blew the fuel lines out, and put in the new HPFP. I replaced the fuel filter probably 25K ago and bleed the canister usually every other oil change, or so. I guess what I'm saying is that I think the fuel is OK.

Are there any other things i should be considering? Or, should I just go ahead and drop the tank and swap out he fuel pump?


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> Are there any other things i should be considering? Or, should I just go ahead and drop the tank and swap out he fuel pump?


Can you put a fuel pressure test gauge on the car and check it first? That's a lot easier than dropping the tank.

Doug

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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks, Doug. That is my problem. I unhooked the fuel line and I have no pressure up in the engine compartment. Unplugged the fuel line where it connects to the HPFP and laid it on a towel, turned the key to start and would assume it would pressurize but there's nothing here, cranked it a few seconds and still no fuel. I'm wondering if I'm safe to assume I need to replace the pump in the tank or am I missing something else.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

When looking on Rockauto for a replacement fuel pump they list a "Fuel Pump Driver Module". I wonder if this part may be a factor. Maybe I could check for power at the fuel pump plug with the key on? Would that exclude this module's chance of being a problem?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Check for power to the pump before condeming pump.

You say the motor cranks over briskly. Does that mean it's spinning faster then it usually has? If that's the case. Then the timing belt is broke. Or disconnected.


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> When looking on Rockauto for a replacement fuel pump they list a "Fuel Pump Driver Module". I wonder if this part may be a factor. Maybe I could check for power at the fuel pump plug with the key on? Would that exclude this module's chance of being a problem?
> View attachment 283829


I've attached a schematic for the fuel system on a 2014 Cruze TD, but I don't see that widget in the drawing.

What I was thinking, before you drop the tank, try to ring out the fuel pump relay in the underhood fuse block to be sure it's getting signal from the ECM and sending power to the rear fuel pump. I'm not sure what's involved in checking power at the fuel pump, tho.

Doug

.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Check for power to the pump before condeming pump.
> 
> You say the motor cranks over briskly. Does that mean it's spinning faster then it usually has? If that's the case. Then the timing belt is broke. Or disconnected.


No. Just that it's turning normally and not slow due to drained battery. I just did the timing belt about a week earlier.


plano-doug said:


> I've attached a schematic for the fuel system on a 2014 Cruze TD, but I don't see that widget in the drawing.
> 
> What I was thinking, before you drop the tank, try to ring out the fuel pump relay in the underhood fuse block to be sure it's getting signal from the ECM and sending power to the rear fuel pump. I'm not sure what's involved in checking power at the fuel pump, tho.
> 
> ...


Well. on the schematic the 1st thing down from the relay is a circle with an M in it. It is labed as 'Fuel pump and level assembly"Do you know what that is? could it be this module? I swapped the relay for another one that was identical in the fuse block, cooling fan I think. I could hear it switch but I will check with a multimeter for power.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

If there's a wiring harness exposed by the tank or around the tank. One can probe the wire with a test light for power.

That be the easiest short of actually pulling the tank down to get to the plug. Unless the seat can be pulled out or whatever can be pulled out to get to the tank.
I think it was VW used to make it easy to get to the tank by pulling out the rear seat. Instead of having to drop the tank.

Not a good idea, though. To probe the wire so make sure to dab some silicon on the probe mark.


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> Fuel pump and level assembly


That's referring to the fuel level sensor , and hence the low pressure fuel pump in the tank.

I don't know much about diesels - the only one I ever touched had a 6-71 blower on it  And I was just the [email protected]$$ summer hire changing the oil in it 

But if there's any way to access the wiring nearer the rear pump to see if it's getting power, without having to drop the tank, well, you know the upside 

BTW, check your your inbox for a PM.

[Edit]Also, the M with the circle around it is the schematic symbol for a motor.

Doug

.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> If there's a wiring harness exposed by the tank or around the tank. One can probe the wire with a test light for power.
> 
> That be the easiest short of actually pulling the tank down to get to the plug. Unless the seat can be pulled out or whatever can be pulled out to get to the tank.
> I think it was VW used to make it easy to get to the tank by pulling out the rear seat. Instead of having to drop the tank.
> ...


Thanks. Yep. I will try that. It seems like the relay is working. I feel it click when the key is turned to on position. Unfortunately I have rain here and car is dead in the driveway just don't want to get down under there today. I will check for power down there with key on and off. 

There is a fuse #67 marked FSCM (fuse is good), Fuel system Control Module I presume.

At this point I hope I have juice at the pump with key on then I can get one ordered and get it swapped out.


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> At this point I hope I have juice at the pump with key on then I can get one ordered and get it swapped out.


Yes, that's what I'm thinking. Juice means the pump is bad. No juice, look for a wiring issue.

Doug

.


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

I see. So that senses the fuel level? The description 


plano-doug said:


> That's referring to the fuel level sensor , and hence the low pressure fuel pump in the tank.
> 
> I don't know much about diesels - the only one I ever touched had a 6-71 blower on it  And I was just the [email protected]$$ summer hire changing the oil in it
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. so that would be the pump and the fuel level.

So.. Will check for power at the pump with key on.


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> ... so that would be the pump and the fuel level.


Yes, to be clear, on all the gasoline based car tanks I've fiddled with, the level sensor was part of or attached to the fuel pump assembly. 

When I saw that text on the schematic for the 2.0TD, I assumed it was the same in the diesel tank.

Doug

.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

You'll have to verify with the wire schematics but simply having the key on may not work.

This is just a guess. But the pump probably gets it's signal when in crank mode. Once engine is running. Something else may be supplying the signal to the pump.

In the old days. Some cars powered the pump in crank. Once engine running. It got its power from oil pressure.

Safety feature. So if the engine died for some reason. The pump would shut down.

Like, an accident.

Ford used to run a inertia switch. If the car were hit hard enough. The switch would flip. Shutting off the pump. Problem was. The car would die with a hard enough bump in the road. Like RR tracks.
Not many ford owners were happy paying for a tow to a shop to just simply push the switch back in to make their car run again.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

snowwy66 said:


> Check for power to the pump before condeming pump.
> 
> You say the motor cranks over briskly. Does that mean it's spinning faster then it usually has? If that's the case. Then the timing belt is broke. Or disconnected.


It's an interference engine. If the timing belt is broken or disconnected, it will destroy the pistons and valves, and likely bind to where it might not turn over at all. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Ford used to run a inertia switch. If the car were hit hard enough. The switch would flip. Shutting off the pump. Problem was. The car would die with a hard enough bump in the road. Like RR tracks.
> Not many ford owners were happy paying for a tow to a shop to just simply push the switch back in to make their car run again.


I slammed the door on a loaner Escort many years ago. Wouldn't start when I went back to it at the end of the day. Somehow, I had the wherewithal to check the owner's manual and found the details on how to reset the switch in the trunk. It was not a fun day.

Doug

.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

MRO1791 said:


> It's an interference engine. If the timing belt is broken or disconnected, it will destroy the pistons and valves, and likely bind to where it might not turn over at all.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

snowwy66 said:


> View attachment 283838


That is NOT the 2.0 LUZ DIESEL on your list. 

LUZ engine IS interference. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Timing belt, Interferance fit or not ?


I have spent several hours searching every possible web-site that I can think of or find to answer the question of " is the 2.0 diesel engine interference fit or not?". Sadly I have found no real technical documents from any one with the answer. I have found some very clear circumstantial...




www.cruzetalk.com


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## plano-doug (Jul 1, 2015)

e-iowa-o said:


> When looking on Rockauto for a replacement fuel pump they list a "Fuel Pump Driver Module". I wonder if this part may be a factor. Maybe I could check for power at the fuel pump plug with the key on? Would that exclude this module's chance of being a problem?
> View attachment 283829


Digging into this, I'm pretty sure that part, 22872266, is indeed part of the diesel fuel system. I get green check marks on parts sites when I search for it under 2014 Cruze TD. (2015, as well)

But I cannot find it in any of the Cruze TD fuel system schematics in my on-line Chiltons, neither 2014 nor 2015.

I've chased it under multiple categories including engine electrical, fuel system, and emissions, all to no avail.

Maybe the Chilton drawings consider it part of the fuel pump and treat it as a block box.

Wish I could be more enlightening on this one.

Doug

.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

MRO1791 said:


> That is NOT the 2.0 LUZ DIESEL on your list.
> 
> LUZ engine IS interference.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk



If you have that info. How about posting it.

I'm in agreement with OP.
Google isn't showing it.

Gates used to have a listing of all motors in production but that isn't popping up either. Yet.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

"This is also why nearly all diesel engines are interference engines—by their nature diesels are very high compression engines. " https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-interference-engines-are-and-why-they-exist-1823935549

Notes under the part listed on this site "Notes: Water Pump Kit with Seals -- Includes: Water Pump, Timing Belt, Camshaft Belt Tensioner, Camshaft Belt Idler, 2 Camshaft Seals, Crankshaft Seal, Pre-Assembly Seal Lubricant; *Interference Engine*; Remove Water Pump Pulley to replace Timing Belt " 





14 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Timing Belt - Engine Mechanical - AC Delco, API, Aisin, Bando, Cloyes, ContiTech, DIY Solutions, DNJ Rock, Dayco, GMB, Gates, SKP, US Motor Works, Camshaft - PartsGeek


Buy a 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Timing Belt at discount prices. Choose top quality brands AC Delco, API, Aisin, Bando, Cloyes, ContiTech, DIY Solutions, DNJ Rock, Dayco, GMB, Gates, SKP, US Motor Works.



www.partsgeek.com


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

snowwy66 said:


> If you have that info. How about posting it.
> 
> I'm in agreement with OP.
> Google isn't showing it.
> ...


I was on it as you posted, yes it IS a bit elusive doing a search, which is why there were at least 2 threads on that topic alone on this site. The 2.0 L on your list is a GM gas engine, note that any mention of Diesel on that list,, then it is interference. Your list also had the Chevette 1.6l, that means that is a list of older GM engines, Chevette's last year was about 1986 if I recall (had an '79 and '84 as my first cars). That 1.6l gasser was non-interference for sure, as I had a belt fail on me in the '84.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yes, the LUZ definitely is interference. I think we have a thread on here (or two) about people finding out exactly what happens when the belt snaps, or is timed improperly.


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## Twisted Z (Apr 3, 2019)

I saw this in E-mail. Have you verified the pump yet? Looking at the diagram you should be able to do it at the relay fairly easy. 

FYI i am not sure about Diesels but most gas fuel control modulus work on a pulse width system to control fuel pressure through a signal from the ECU.

If things check out I would back track through the work you recently did to see if it let the timing slip a tooth or two. If it did the engine would not fire but also would not always bend the valves.

Good luck!


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

Twisted Z said:


> I saw this in E-mail. Have you verified the pump yet? Looking at the diagram you should be able to do it at the relay fairly easy.
> 
> FYI i am not sure about Diesels but most gas fuel control modulus work on a pulse width system to control fuel pressure through a signal from the ECU.
> 
> ...


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

Emptied fuel tank and pulled it out. I been trying to figure out if the pump has enough juice to run properly. I don't know what I'm doing. There is not 12 volts to the plug when the key is in on position. its a 4 wire plug and the purple or blue with has 3 volts. Has 3 volts whether the relay is in or not. There is a wider plug w like 7 conductors that plugs into the water separator and one wire there is sitting at 6-7 volts. I don't know which way the current flows or what the interplay is betwixt those components and the harness????????? My battery is sitting at 10 volts now, too after messing with it for a few days. (and the cooling fan went out in my charger so that just overheats and won't charge either. Eeeesh!)

My presumption is that when key is on system from the low pressure pump in the tank up to where it dumps into the high pressure pump should be pressurized. 

Plano-Doug hooked me up with a link to Chilton's so maybe I can get some clues to the wiring there. If anyone has an idea how to verify that my pump is good or bad I'd be glad to try it. 

I work long hours and can't get back to this for 3 days I'm gonna go ahead and order a new LPFP since I have everything out. I'll get a good charge on the battery in the mean time and try again in a few days.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

snowwy66 said:


> View attachment 283838


please stop


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

boraz said:


> please stop


nah


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## e-iowa-o (Sep 2, 2015)

It acted like a bad fuel pump. I replaced the fuel pump and it started right up.


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

Glad to hear!!!!


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