# Interior Condensation



## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

So I have been reading up on all the posts lately concerning warm-up time on the CTD. I have noted on mine that when the temperature drops below -20C that the CTD takes for ever to warm up. It is especially painful when I park the car for the evening say around 9pm after driving it for a while. The interior is warm and cozy.

In the morning (when it's -25C + wind chill) all the windows are frosted up on the inside from the previous nights warm air left to freeze. I can set the temperature to max to engage the aux heat, set the fan to a speed of 2 or 3, and the airflow to wind-shield. This after a few minutes will clear the wind-shield but not much else. I start driving as soon as I can safely see out the front. 

My commute has me on the highway within 5 minutes (street lights co-operating) and then I have a 10-15 minute highway drive. By the end of this drive the CTD temperature gauge is barely past the first quarter mark. I get off the highway and while I sit at the off ramp light I can see the temperature drop on the gauge. 

I have spoken to the dealer about this and am waiting for their response as for how to proceed. On temperatures around -14C or above and the CTD heats up great. I am thinking the electrically controled thermostat needs a reprogramming.

Now back to the subject line. Today I took the car through a touch car wash to get the salt off and as I am pulling out of the gas station water begins to run out of the ceiling. It starts to leak right from the overhead console where the switch is for the interior lights. It runs for about 5 -10 seconds. Enough that I had to pull over and clean it up with a couple of tissues.

I took the car straight to the dealership and dropped it off. I asked them if they can drop the interior and check for more water.

When I picked the car up today this is what they suspect was wrong:

"Dropped head liner, water tested - no leaking water getting in but large amounts of condensation above head liner may be caused from the show & cold weather. This melted from the heat of the car wash and caused the water leak." 

They blew out the head liner and reassembled.

I am wondering if anyone thinks the excess condensation build up could be as a result of insufficient heating at the cold temperatures I'm having here in Ottawa. Anyone think the dealers reasoning is sound?


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## S-Fitz (Jul 16, 2012)

Turn on your air conditioning, gets the humidity down inside. Sure it makes your fuel consumption go up a bit, but so will idling for 5 mins waiting to clear your windows.


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## kboat (Jan 1, 2015)

I experienced significant fogging the first couple of days I owned mine. I started running the A/C with the heat and have not had an issue since.


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## TX CTD (Oct 24, 2014)

Had a similar issue with the windows fogging when the air was recirculating, just turning the recirculation off would make it go away.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Make sure you are not in recirc mode on the HVAC, you need fresh dry air from outside to keep the windows clear and humidity down. 
If you can plug in the car this helps with the warm up time. 
As for the thermostat, I believe it is mechanical not electric on the diesel. 

In your area you are likely more often, just below freezing with higher humidity and tracking snow in the car that allows moisture to build up easily in the car. Do you have rubber floor mats? If not get some, this water build up in the carpet really makes it hard to keep the car dry. 

I have had that happen on a car w/o a sunroof before, frost built up during colder weather and short trips not drying out the car enough when driving. When the weather got back near freezing water came out of the dome light.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

I suspect, the water runoff into the sunroof pan (designed to leak into the pan) was unable to drain properly because your drains were still full of ice.

Try to get this car into a above freezing environment for the night.

Also, although the car looks awful, there isn't a more harmful thing you can do to it in below freezing weather than expose it to a car wash.

Details if you wish.

Rob


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

Hi, thanks for the replies.

No sun roof in mine. I do plug it in at night to help with starting. Sometimes I wish we had a block heater.
I have weathertech mats that I empty quite often else my pant-legs get wet form the laying water.

I don't usually use recirculating air but I will start keeping an eye on it in-case I've hit the button by mistake.

Can say I've ever tried turning on the AC in the winter. Having both on seems weird.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

No sunroof?
Water out of headliner?

Keep in touch......you've REALLY got my attention on this one.

Rob


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

Robby said:


> No sunroof?
> Water out of headliner?
> 
> Keep in touch......you've REALLY got my attention on this one.
> ...


Will do. The service manager at my dealership is on vacation so I am waiting for him to come back to proceed.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

Do you run floor/defrost or just defrost once on the road? I have been running fan 4 defrost/floor split and seems to work well. Turn back the temp when it gets to warm. Keeping air moving helps get the moisture out of the car. 
I don't think the A/C compressor runs when below freezing, so that won't help. 
You may also consider a winter front over the upper grille. This has improved my warm up time on the colder days.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Just crack a rear window the slightest bit, all the moisture will have somewhere to go...It usually doesn't bother me because the heat is so hot once it's rolling anyways


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## bigluke (Aug 18, 2013)

I clean the interior windows with an anti-fog stuff that helped with the condensation problem, but on very cold days as you said it's inevitable condensation will stick on the windows. When I had a garage in winter once a month I over heated it and leave the windows open on the car with a little fan directed on it to dry the interior as much as possible and that's the only way I found to get rid of the condensation.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I think TDCruze is right. Moisture is being tracked into the car. The warmth causes it to evaporate - but then it will condense once everything cools off. Something has to be worked out to get the moist air out of the car before it can deposit it where you don't want it.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

TDCruze said:


> I don't think the A/C compressor runs when below freezing, so that won't help.


Bingo.



TDCruze said:


> You may also consider a winter front over the upper grille. This has improved my warm up time on the colder days.


I know this helps with my gas Cruze. Mine's an Eco with the lower grille shutters like the diesel, the shutters will open if the engine needs it. My plan this year was to do about a 2/3 block off to allow a little airflow still, I don't want the shutters working all the time.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Robby said:


> Keep in touch......you've REALLY got my attention on this one.


Rob, the dealer's theory is that condensation is freezing in between the roof and headliner and building up. The intense heat of the hot water car wash made this condensation melt all at once, causing the drips inside the car.

While I've never heard of this happening before, it seems to make sense. Maybe... ?

I'm in Ottawa as well but I don't take my car through car washes in the winter. Now I have another reason not to!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

stuckoncanada said:


> In the morning (when it's -25C + wind chill) all the windows are frosted up on the inside from the previous nights warm air left to freeze.


Exactly the same thing happens with my gas Cruze, so it's not a diesel only issue. These past two weeks have been brutal for this, but when it's a little "warmer" like -10C or warmer it's not as serious.

I've made a habit of cooling the car off before I get to where I'm going, as well as making sure the HVAC fan is running the whole time I'm sitting in the car before getting out (don't sit there with the car off breathing humid air into the car for two minutes before heading out). If I don't want to idle the engine I turn the key off and then back forward so I can run the fan if I have to sit in the car.

The Cruze seems to be a car plagued by interior moisture.


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## VtTD (Nov 5, 2013)

bigluke said:


> I clean the interior windows with an anti-fog stuff that helped with the condensation problem, but on very cold days as you said it's inevitable condensation will stick on the windows. When I had a garage in winter once a month I over heated it and leave the windows open on the car with a little fan directed on it to dry the interior as much as possible and that's the only way I found to get rid of the condensation.


I'll second the clean the windows. I had the car last winter and it fogged like crazy. Someone here said something about the gasses in the materials the interior of the car is made of can "accumulate" on the window promoting the fogging. I really cleaned the interior of the windows well this year and haven't had any problems with fogging even though we've had some -10s (F) mornings this month.


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## Canadian Cruzer (Oct 27, 2014)

To cut down on condensation inside the car leave your front windows down a few milimeters on cold CLEAR nights. This will allow dry air to circulate through the car and you wont have inside fog in the morning. Try it it works.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I would bet the same as what is being said. As the car warms the heat and humidity naturally rise to the top of the car. It (moisture) built up over a period of time. Since the car has never really been fully warmed, the bits of ice kept accumulating... then the sudden warmth of the car wash simply melted the remnants of ice that had been building up.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

TDCruze said:


> Do you run floor/defrost or just defrost once on the road? I have been running fan 4 defrost/floor split and seems to work well. Turn back the temp when it gets to warm. Keeping air moving helps get the moisture out of the car.
> I don't think the A/C compressor runs when below freezing, so that won't help.
> You may also consider a winter front over the upper grille. This has improved my warm up time on the colder days.


Sorry for the slow response for some reason I am not getting notifications of new postings from here.

I generally start-up with the just the windshield air. Then I will switch to a mix of windshield & floor. Depending on the outside temp I have noted that sometimes I need to run just windshield to keep the windows clear. I am a big buy with the seat almost all the way back and the drivers side rear window takes a lot of air movement before it clears.

I too run high heat until it warms up then I turn the heat down closer to medium (if on a long drive). I am finding it really depends on the what the outside temp is and how many of are in the car at once on what temp/air flow/ fan speed combo I use.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> Rob, the dealer's theory is that condensation is freezing in between the roof and headliner and building up. The intense heat of the hot water car wash made this condensation melt all at once, causing the drips inside the car.
> 
> While I've never heard of this happening before, it seems to make sense. Maybe... ?
> 
> I'm in Ottawa as well but I don't take my car through car washes in the winter. Now I have another reason not to!


Hi,

I have been going through washes for years with other vehicles and never seen this before. The dealer did tell me that he has seen similar issues on the Silverado/ Sierra. I hope to hear back form the service manager this week.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

VtTD said:


> I'll second the clean the windows. I had the car last winter and it fogged like crazy. Someone here said something about the gasses in the materials the interior of the car is made of can "accumulate" on the window promoting the fogging. I really cleaned the interior of the windows well this year and haven't had any problems with fogging even though we've had some -10s (F) mornings this month.


I generally will take the car to Tops Car wash here in Ottawa and they clean the windows as part of the detailing (drive through touch wash, windows, quick wipe-down, etc). On this instance I used a drive through wash at a Canadian Tire.

I do run the floor heat to try to dry up some of the water laying in my Weathertech mats (which I drainout as often as I remember so my pants don't get wet)


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## jalaner (Dec 28, 2013)

My CTD is foggy and requires the HVAC windshield and heater button if the weather is cold (for South Carolina), rainy or foggy. I wonder if the extra noise sealing and insulation (which I like) traps the condensation. My lightly sealed and loud Pontiac Vibe rarely does this.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

stuckoncanada said:


> I do run the floor heat to try to dry up some of the water laying in my Weathertech mats


Which transfers the water to the air, and unless you get that air outside, it will turn into water/ice again when the inside cools off.

To modify an old saying in physics: water is neither created nor destroyed - just moved.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

Just wanted to update anyone following this thread.

I am still waiting to hear back from the Service Manager at he dealership (was on vacation).

I have done some more reading on here and have noted that the Cruze seemed to have a lot of issues with condensation/ fogged windows (for various reasons) in the beginning of its lifespan.

Last night I left my car doors open for a couple of minutes when I got home to let the moisture out. This resulted in a lot less moisture frozen on the interior but keep in mind the temperature wasn't as cold as has been.

Will update more once I know more.

Cheers


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## KOBALT (Nov 19, 2013)

Main issue of condensation on the windshield is wet/soiled floormats. This is why I'm against the WeatherTech ones. Sure it's nice all that snow/water goes into the grooves, but now you have yourself a nice puddle of water sitting in your car. Same goes for cloth ones. It soaks in like a sponge.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

KOBALT said:


> Main issue of condensation on the windshield is wet/soiled floormats. This is why I'm against the WeatherTech ones. Sure it's nice all that snow/water goes into the grooves, but now you have yourself a nice puddle of water sitting in your car. Same goes for cloth ones. It soaks in like a sponge.


What would you recommend using since you say both options suck? I LOVE my husky liners, just dump out any water after I drive or remove the ice before I drive next time. Way better than having a soggy floor mat all winter that soaks into the carpets as well. 

My carpet looks the same after 3 winters as when the car was new. First car I can say that about, also the first I bought good floor mats for.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

spacedout said:


> What would you recommend using since you say both options suck? I LOVE my husky liners, just dump out any water after I drive or remove the ice before I drive next time. Way better than having a soggy floor mat all winter that soaks into the carpets as well.
> 
> My carpet looks the same after 3 winters as when the car was new. First car I can say that about, also the first I bought good floor mats for.


True dat! First car with Weathertechs and they are great. Just dump out the water. If you stay on top of it the amount is very minimal.


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## Barefeet (Jan 1, 2014)

stuckoncanada said:


> True dat! First car with Weathertechs and they are great. Just dump out the water. If you stay on top of it the amount is very minimal.


Weathertechs are great. 
Wipe/towel the water out. The carpets look like new.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

Just a note to update: The car goes back to the dealership tomorrow morning for their first look into the condensation issue. The service manager was on holidays.

I will also update something that I have found out on my CTD (with some awesome assistance from Blue Angel thanks!). 
We removed the glove box to have a look at the external/ recirculating air flaps located inside the cabin air filter housing. We observed the flap position and toggled the recirculate button on the console to switch from fresh air to recirculate, my flaps move about 3 teeth on the driving gear (about 8-10 teeth is normal). Which translates into a very slight movement of the shutter. It appears that my CTD only brings in fresh air and will not close the vents to recirculate the cabin air. 

Although this does not solve my issue with condensation it certainly is a fault with the car that if I hadn't looked into I never would have noticed. I almost never used recirculate on any of my previous vehicles.

Makes one wonder what else might not be functioning correctly that we take for granted.

Cheers


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

stuckoncanada said:


> It appears that my CTD only brings in fresh air and will not close the vents to recirculate the cabin air.


You sure it's not the other way around? If the air recirculates, then no moisture leaves the car. If it's on fresh air, then the inside air will vent outside (taking moisture with it) and the interior air will be no more moist than the outside air when the car cools off.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

ChevyGuy said:


> You sure it's not the other way around? If the air recirculates, then no moisture leaves the car. If it's on fresh air, then the inside air will vent outside (taking moisture with it) and the interior air will be no more moist than the outside air when the car cools off.


Positive. You can see the vent flaps attempt to close but never do. Yes if this was the case then it would have been an easy fix.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

So I got my first call from the dealer. 

They checked the computer for any outstanding codes and nothing came back out of the ordinary.

They confirmed that the recirculating air flaps are not working correctly and said that they had to reprogram the control module (I guess it has it's own?). It is now operating fine.

As for heat they say that at present the car is running outside bay on aux and they are watching it to see if the humidity rises. I am curious how they measuring that. Most likely just waiting to see if the windows fog up since it -22C with the windchill outside.

They've asked to keep it over night so I'll pick up my loaner this afternoon and touch-base with them in the morning.

Cheers


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

stuckoncanada said:


> They confirmed that the recirculating air flaps are not working correctly and said that they had to reprogram the control module (I guess it has it's own?). It is now operating fine.


You're not the first one I've heard that required a reprogramming of the "module", whichever module that may be? More likely a good reboot.

Handy that your work is right beside the dealer!


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I wonder if it's anything like "Programming the Power Windows" outlined in the Owner's manual. It seem to teach the computer how long it has to run the motor.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

ChevyGuy said:


> It seem to teach the computer how long it has to run the motor.


That sounds very similar... the actuator just doesn't run long enough to move the flaps into position properly.


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## Sperry (Aug 3, 2013)

My windows frost up on the inside every time I go near Ottawa or whenever it gets around -20 c..


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Geez Sperry, I hope it's not a regional thing! 

Then again, driving through Bowmanville on Saturday, I can see how someone living there might have forgotten what winter is! I couldn't believe it's the end of January and I can't find any snow down there! I hope you don't own a sled!


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

So I have the car back from the dealership. Now we wait & see. 

Basically all they did (that I know of) was allow the car to sit in the heated bay over night with the doors open to allow it to "dry out". 
Then they let it run outside during the day to see if the humidity would build up with the heat on. 

The service manager says he took the car for a 20 min drive and didn't note anything unusual. 

They have ordered some kind of deflector for over top of the a/c vent (I guess water can get in this way). I am waiting for this part to come so the dealer is going to leave the work order open until then and told me to drive it like normal. I said well it will depend on the weather if it gets cold enough outside again to have the windows ice up.

Sorry for the let down guys. No rocket science solution yet. Thanks for everyone's input though. 

Cheers


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

stuckoncanada said:


> They have ordered some kind of deflector for over top of the a/c vent (I guess water can get in this way).


Interesting. Get as much info as you can on this, like a part number and a pic of how it's installed if possible. I somehow doubt this will accomplish much, but we'll see.



stuckoncanada said:


> No rocket science solution yet.


Based on how your car was frost-free the night we met up and the recirc flaps were in the proper orientation (fresh air mode), I'm hoping your issue was with the module not operating the actuator properly. Watching it cycle through such a small range of motion certainly indicates there was an issue there.

Since correcting the flap position in my car, only fan speed 1 or 2 (on the early 4 speed selector in the '12) is needed to keep the windows clear, even with three people in the car. Higher humidity outside seems to require more air flow to keep condensation at bay, which makes sense.

If your car ever frosts up again, pull the filter and check out the flaps as soon as possible. Shoot me a PM if you ever think you have something for me to have a look at... Starbucks makes a good hot chocoloate.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

I posted in the Service Issues forum, a few videos and a quick how-to for those with moisture issues:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-s...e-condensation-frost-windows.html#post1666193


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

Just another update to anyone following this thread.

So I have had the car back for a few days now from the dealership and although the weather hasn't produced any -30C nights I have not seen any excessive condensation build up in the car since the HVAC air flap control was corrected.

Yesterday morning (Monday eve) was the first cold day we've had since the car's return. When I came out of the house to go to work (at 5:30am) I noticed frost on the inside in the following places: 
A nice frame of frost around the outside of the windshield.
The drivers side front & rear windows frosted fully.

The passenger side were totally clear. That being said this is the side that faces the house so it may have provided some kind of sheltering??

I had a longer than normal drive to work that day as I was out of town (about a 45km drive all highway 40 minutes in length). This length of drive got the car up to temperature and the windows were clear by the time I got to work but it took quite a while with adjustments to airflow direction as I drove (straight vent/defrost/floor/etc).

The car is back into the dealership today for a deflector addition that could possibly aid in my condensation issue. It is a plastic deflector installed over the HVAC air inlet. It was created to stop excessive rain or snow melt off from running inside the cabin when the car is sitting at an incline. 

A quick Google search for more info found this:

Front Passenger Floor Water Leak

Although this could be a problem to some Cruze owners I do not know if it will affect my situation but the service manager recommended the repair as a precaution.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments.

Cheers!


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

stuckoncanada said:


> The passenger side were totally clear. That being said this is the side that faces the house so it may have provided some kind of sheltering??


I find when I park my car close to the house, facing the garage, that the windshield can be completely frost free and the back window (facing away from the house) can be covered in frost (on the outside). I think the house shelters the car from dew/moisture fallout over night as well as providing some sort of radiant heat; my outside temp reading usually falls by a few degrees after backing out of my driveway, and the sensor is on the front of the car facing the house.

Another thing to note is the driver's side windows have more moisture on them when you're driving solo, so there may have been more moisture on that side of the car when you parked it the night before?



stuckoncanada said:


> I had a longer than normal drive to work that day as I was out of town (about a 45km drive all highway 40 minutes in length). This length of drive got the car up to temperature and the windows were clear by the time I got to work but it took quite a while with adjustments to airflow direction as I drove (straight vent/defrost/floor/etc).


Since fixing the recirc flaps in my car, I've found that it takes a similar approach to keep things clear. On some days the cabin will stay clear on the lowest fan speed, and other times it takes fan speed 3/4 to keep from frosting up. I think this is due to ambient conditions; the colder it is the more readily moisture will condense on the inside of the glass, and the higher the humidity the more moisture will be present. So colder more humid days would result in more condensation/frost.

The night I originally fixed the flaps was really cold (-20C/-4F) and clear, likely low humidity, and with the car fully warmed up it stayed clear on the lowest fan speed.



stuckoncanada said:


> The car is back into the dealership today for a deflector addition that could possibly aid in my condensation issue. It is a plastic deflector installed over the HVAC air inlet. It was created to stop excessive rain or snow melt off from running inside the cabin when the car is sitting at an incline.
> 
> A quick Google search for more info found this:
> 
> Front Passenger Floor Water Leak


I'm very interested in this. I would LOVE to get the part number for this deflector if you can get it off your service invoice, and if it's not on your invoice if you could ask the dealer for it.

I was driving on the highway Friday afternoon, another fairly cold/clear day, and out of nowhere my car fogged up almost completely. I have a sneaking suspicion that some snow was sucked into the HVAC intake and got the cabin filter wet. I pulled over shortly after and verified the recirc flaps were in the correct position (they were), so the snow theory was all I could come up with. It had snowed the night before and the cowl area was full of loose powdery snow. After an hour or so of driving the moisture was gone.

I don't know if this shield would help in that situation or not, but I'd like to have it installed just in case.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

stuckoncanada said:


> The passenger side were totally clear. That being said this is the side that faces the house so it may have provided some kind of sheltering??


To convert water from vapor to water/ice, it takes not only cold, but the ability to conduct heat away from the water as it changes form. I think the key here is the wind blowing on the glass keeps it cold so that's where the thicker layer of frost collects.


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## 68554 (Oct 6, 2014)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm very interested in this. I would LOVE to get the part number for this deflector if you can get it off your service invoice, and if it's not on your invoice if you could ask the dealer for it.


There is no part number on the invoice, it references the "PI1320". I will see what I can do.

Cheers


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## jalaner (Dec 28, 2013)

I love my CTD but the heater is poor, even with the auxillary electric heat. At freezing temps my BMW 740i warms up and starts to heat after about one minute and will clear the windows and completely heat the interior within 3 minutes. Of course it burns twice as much fuel as the CTD so there is more waste heat available to warm the cabin.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

jalaner said:


> Of course it burns twice as much fuel as the CTD so there is more waste heat available to warm the cabin.


My thermodynamics Prof always told us, "There's no such thing as a free lunch!"


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