# TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline



## smelly (Mar 25, 2011)

so are we all using the TOP *TIER* Detergent *Gasoline* .... in our cars? Not all stations have iit.
Is using a higher octain than regular, better for gas milage?

:signs015:


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## audog (Apr 28, 2011)

I have found that mine runs best on 93 Octane Shell gasoline, don't know why, but it seems to get about 2 mpg better with the Shell, than with other brands


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## gman19 (Apr 5, 2011)

I haven't tried top tier yet, but plan to do so afte a few tanks of non-top tier.
If I can gain a few mpg, as Audog has, and can benefit my wallet in some fashion, I may switch over altogether.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...if you're using *Arco* gasoline (lowest co$t major here in Tucson, AZ), then you are _not_ using Top Tier.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

After reading up on "Top Tier" gasoline, I'm not sure if there really is a benefit or not. My 15 year old Civic has always run on the cheapest gas I could find and it still gets nearly 30 mpg in town and over 40 mpg on the highway. If its all dirtied up inside from the non-top tier gas, then it hasn't hurt it yet. The engine has never been opened, nor has it needed to be. 

The mileage benefit might be the ethanol content of the various gasolines. If the top tier doesn't have 10% ethanol and the cheap stuff does, then you will get better mileage with the top tier. Around here, nearly all of the pumps have 10% ethanol stickers on them, even the top tier brands. Pricing around here is largely dependent on the location of the gas station. The closer to the interstate, the higher the price. Even then, the price differential is usually less than $.15 a gallon for 87 octane. Update: I was just out running some errands and 87 octane down the street, near I-75 is $3.65 a gallon for BP. Three miles away, Sunoco is $3.28 a gallon. Both are 10% ethanol and that is the cash price. 

My personal feeling is I'm getting screwed no matter what the price of the gas is.


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## Crewz (Jul 12, 2011)

I've been filling up with Shell most of the time cause I prefer their gas. I got some Exxon gas the other day. I've tried 87, 89, and 93. On 93 it does get a tad bit better gas mileage, but nothing to write home about.

On my previous daily driver, '04 Ram 1500, I always got the cheapest gas possible. HEB, Randalls, etc. They all seemed to work fine, but I never did have a look at the internals to see what kind of deposits the fuel was leaving behind. I had 140K miles on my truck before I got into an accident and got my Cruze. I plan to keep this one for a long time which is why I'm using "Top Tier" cat pee gas.


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## Crewz (Jul 12, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> My personal feeling is I'm getting screwed no matter what the price of the gas is.


Amen to that.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...Shell here too, but Top Tier is more about 'detergents' content than ethanol content (at least to GM and EPA, _et.al._).


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## dacruze (Jul 15, 2011)

I agree w/ ya'll!!! We're all getting nailed, while the the Oil Complanies get richer. To borrow a line form Jerry Reed " They got thy goldmine, we got the shaft!!!" 

Crewz, I gotta ask what is "cat pee gas"?


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## Crewz (Jul 12, 2011)

dacruze said:


> I agree w/ ya'll!!! We're all getting nailed, while the the Oil Complanies get richer. To borrow a line form Jerry Reed " They got thy goldmine, we got the shaft!!!"
> 
> Crewz, I gotta ask what is "cat pee gas"?


It's just what I call pump gas.


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## dacruze (Jul 15, 2011)

I got ya. Heck, with all the ethanol and other additives they put in now to become less fuel dependant, cat pee may run better!?!?!


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## alex725 (Apr 2, 2011)

I run premium gas in my car, I usually get it from wawa whos gas comes with a guarantee. Weird but I could have sworn it said 92 octane at the pump the other day, never heard of that. Ive never paid attention before because we dont pump our gas in nj.


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## Gus_Mahn (Aug 16, 2011)

IMO Top Tier is nothing more than marketing hype by a company that sells a cleaning additive. I have been driving a long time and have never had carbon or fuel system issues related to fuel which doesn't have the top tier brand.


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## c6vette (Jul 24, 2011)

I used Shell for the past six years. The Shell card used to get me a 5% discount per gallon. Suddenly Shell changed their policy. To get the same discount I would have to purchase $2000 worth of goods per month on their card. In addition Shell stations started charging 10 cents more a gallon for all credit cards. 
I switched to Mobil also a top tier gas. I get 15 cents off per gallon and my Mobil card/Speed Pass is the same as cash.
A no brainer!


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## Ian_12 (Aug 19, 2011)

All I have to choose from is Marathon, I prefer Mobil, Chevron, and Texaco, but none around here. There is a Mobil 30 miles away, and was all I ever put in my Cobalt when I lived there. There use to be a Shell here, but it switched to Marathon (5 Marathon stations in a small town!). But other then that, I run 93 in my car. When I got it, they put 87 in it, and had a lot of engine surging under part throttle and under a load pulling hills.


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## ZedHed (Jul 15, 2011)

I was told by a convenience store manager that they so seldom sold premium fuel that occasionally it went bad and had to be pumped out at a loss, so his owner told him to put regular in the tank and not tell the customers. I don't know if this true or not, as with all stories, I'm sure there is a kernel of truth here. I'm sure that premium fuel is a much slower seller than regular and with 10% ethanol content -- there is a high probability of water contamination at most stations. Because of this logic, I refuse to use premium fuel unless I can verify it is fresh (like I witnessed the premium fuel being delivered.)


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## teetadapee (Jun 26, 2012)

alex725 said:


> I run premium gas in my car, I usually get it from wawa whos gas comes with a guarantee. Weird but I could have sworn it said 92 octane at the pump the other day, never heard of that. Ive never paid attention before because we dont pump our gas in nj.


We only pump our fists in NJ!


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## mr_raider (Aug 13, 2011)

I have serious issues with the Top Tier gas. Top tier is not an external testing and validation procedure by an independant company. It's an industry sponsored voluntary standard created by some companies which they have chosen to adhere to. In other words, it's like five of the major makers of drugstore acetaminophen got together and said or Acetaminophen is better than others, look, here's the sticker that says so!


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Cruze owners manual says to only use top tier gasoline. A lot has changed in north central Wisconsin just this last year. Practically all gas stations are now selling ethanol free top tier gasoline. Can't even use ethanol in marine applications, nor RV's, nor ATV's. Then honest reports state they are just using as much fossil fuels to make ethanol. So where are the savings?

Since they have started making ethanol, meat and diary prices more than doubled, so getting screwed not once but twice.

Just bend over and take it with a smile, and is this country really a democracy? Yeah, I know, we are not, a republic instead, but not with a set aristocracy, but elected ones instead. Is there really a less of two evils? Don't feel so.


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

mr_raider said:


> I have serious issues with the Top Tier gas. Top tier is not an external testing and validation procedure by an independant company. It's an industry sponsored voluntary standard created by some companies which they have chosen to adhere to. In other words, it's like five of the major makers of drugstore acetaminophen got together and said or Acetaminophen is better than others, look, here's the sticker that says so!


First of all, Top tier gas is voluntary for both the consumer and the gas companies. 

Secondly, top tier was created by Audi, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen together not the gas companies. 

Basically, the 6 companies wanted to see a greater concentration of detergents in fuel as opposed to what the current EPA standard is. If in Canada as you and I are then it's the low standard set by the Canadian General Standards Board (CGSB). 

Basically we get a better quality gas from a top tier retailer than the guy down the street for the same price. I don't see how anyone could possible have an issue with this.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

mcg75 said:


> Basically we get a better quality gas from a top tier retailer than the guy down the street for the same price. I don't see how anyone could possible have an issue with this.


Around here, the only top tier retailer is Shell. Those stations are few and far between. They are also a nickel a gallon or more than the other brands right around them. I'd say that's an issue. The real issue, as I see it, is it more expensive to pay $16 for a bottle of detergent every oil change, or pay the extra nickel a gallon for top tier? You do the math for your particular area.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

Yup. For me top tier stations are at most 1-2 cents more than non-top tier stations for the same grade of gas. If 10-20 cents extra even once a week breaks your budget, you need to re-evaluate things. Drop that expensive cell phone plan and go with a basic phone. (GASP DID HE REALLY JUST SAY I SHOULD CHOOSE BEING ABLE TO GET TO WORK AND CARE FOR MY CAR OVER HAVING MY SMART PHONE!?!?)


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

Jim Frye said:


> Around here, the only top tier retailer is Shell. Those stations are few and far between. They are also a nickel a gallon or more than the other brands right around them. I'd say that's an issue. The real issue, as I see it, is it more expensive to pay $16 for a bottle of detergent every oil change, or pay the extra nickel a gallon for top tier? You do the math for your particular area.


I've done the match for my area and the price is the same between the large retailers who do and don't offer it. The smaller discount places will do 3 cents off but all of those discount places put ethenol in their gas. 

Besides, are you really complaining about a nickel a gallon? Have you checked how much a fuel injection cleaning costs lately? Usually almost $100 bucks. 

FYI, the Cruze doesn't have an inline fuel filter like the Cobalt before it. For any of you that have changed one before, you'd know turning the filter upside down and letting the old crap drain out is quite disturbing. 

To each his own but I will happily pay an extra 2 cents a litre if needed for a fuel that has enough detergents to actually keep injectors and valves clean.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Compounded with over 155 different blends of EPA mandated laws. Gas sales must be low, practically July already and finally got a tank of what we call summer gas. Fuel mileage increased from 37 to over 41 mpg, not a thing done to my Cruze.

For awhile, couldn't buy ethanol free gas in town, but could drive 15 miles to the next county to get it.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

mcg75 said:


> Besides, are you really complaining about a nickel a gallon? Have you checked how much a fuel injection cleaning costs lately? Usually almost $100 bucks.


You can do largely the same thing with a bottle of Seafoam in your tank once a year or so and by buying the spray they now offer that you spray directly into your throttle body.

Another thing that I still need to do is find a catch can so I'm not coating my intake system with oil recycled from the crank case for emissions purposes.


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

Ian_12 said:


> All I have to choose from is Marathon, I prefer Mobil, Chevron, and Texaco, but none around here. There is a Mobil 30 miles away, and was all I ever put in my Cobalt when I lived there. There use to be a Shell here, but it switched to Marathon (5 Marathon stations in a small town!). But other then that, I run 93 in my car. When I got it, they put 87 in it, and had a lot of engine surging under part throttle and under a load pulling hills.


Unfortunately, only 25 stations sell 100% gasoline in Ohio. There is some 87 octane 100% gasoline at 9481 State Rt 708 North, Russells Point, OH? Do you have any regular business there, away from Lima, OH?


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## rbtec (Feb 3, 2012)

litesong said:


> Unfortunately, only 25 stations sell 100% gasoline in Ohio. There is some 87 octane 100% gasoline at 9481 State Rt 708 North, Russells Point, OH? Do you have any regular business there, away from Lima, OH?


That's about 25 more than Michigan.


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

NickD said:


> A lot has changed in north central Wisconsin just this last year. Practically all gas stations are now selling ethanol free top tier gasoline.


Yes, its time to get all ethanol out of gasoline supplies to be used in gasoline engines that were designed to get their best efficiency on 100% pure gasoline(duh). This is not rocket science. But it is good 100% pure gasoline for gasoline engine science.

Wisconsin has ~10% of all the stations selling 100% pure gasoline in the U.S. & Canada. 

Its time to make the 170,000+ stations selling gasoline in the U.S. & Canada sell 100% pure gasoline, instead of just the 5400+ stations that work hard to sell what your gasoline designed engine is craving for.

Ethanol in low compression gasoline engines is like too much fat & filler in fast food.


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

Originally Posted by *litesong*  
Unfortunately, only 25 stations sell 100% gasoline in Ohio. There is some 87 octane 100% gasoline at 9481 State Rt 708 North, Russells Point, OH? Do you have any regular business there, away from Lima, OH?
/////////////////////////////
rbtec wrote:

That's about 25 more than Michigan.
/////////////////////////////
litesong wrote:
According to pure-gas.org, 94 stations sell 100% pure gasoline in Michigan. Go to pure-gas.org for addresses, details & a great zoomable map to find the closest 100% pure gasoline station to you. I have to go to the next town to find 100% pure gasoline. Also, a station with a good price on 100% pure gasoline is two towns away from me. However, my 24 year old Ford Festiva is averaging 8.5% better with 100% pure gasoline as opposed to 10% ethanol blends. Also, our 3 cars are smoother, quieter & have more power on 100% pure gasoline.


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

Beaker said:


> Yup. For me top tier stations are at most 1-2 cents more than non-top tier stations for the same grade of gas.


Have you tested well the 100% gasoline that is sold in your town of Goose Creek?


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## budd (Apr 12, 2011)

the dealer i bought my cruze from filled it with shell when i bought and test drove it. i'v run nothing but shell in it since i've had it. 3 or 4 cents a gallon is nothing on 8 - 10 gallons.


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## Macman (May 4, 2011)

I run 93 octane from valero, Haven't tried top tier yet, been thinking about it, but it's a little out of the way, so may not be worth it. Tried shell once and the car felt like it was trying to vomit it out, it ran horrible.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Well, 87 E10 hit $2.96/gal. today at the Sunoco station I usually buy my gas at. Of course, I filled both cars up yesterday when it was $3.01/gal. Ever since I learned of Chevy's requirement of using Top Tier Gas in the Cruze, I've been chewing on the issue for several months now. It seems that the cost of going way out of my way to purchase the product vs. putting regular E10 in and adding a $16 bottle of detergent every oil change is a moot point. The costs are almost the same when spread over the ten years I typically keep a car. In addition, I have a 15 year old car that has never had either put in it and it runs great, delivers 29 MPG in town and over 40 MPG on the highway, and has done so for the 15 years I've owned it. I also have owned another car for the last 10 years that also has never had either product in it and it too runs great, gets 28 MPG in town and 38 MPG on the highway. Neither car has ever had anything done to the fuel system, so if they are all clogged up with gunk from the crappy gas I have been putting in them, it sure isn't apparent. No codes from either system also. 

I guess my confusion on this subject comes down to this: Why is it so important that the Cruze motor has to have Top Tier gas, or regular injections of detergent, when compact cars by other makers don't have this requirement? I mean it's OK that it does, knowing it up front, but why is it so necessary?


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jim Frye said:


> I guess my confusion on this subject comes down to this: Why is it so important that the Cruze motor has to have Top Tier gas, or regular injections of detergent, when compact cars by other makers don't have this requirement? I mean it's OK that it does, knowing it up front, but why is it so necessary?


Other car manufactures do have this requirement. Ever looked at the gas cap on a Ford product in the last few years? they recommend BP products. Top Tier is not just GM but also *BMW*, *Honda*, *Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi. 
*
Top Tier is simply these manufactures letting you know what they test your car to run best on for the life of the car. Detergents are very important in modern fuel systems & with so may modern engines starting to use direct injection it becomes even more important. newer fuel injector cleaners have to withstand much higher temps in DI engines(obviously this doesn't currently effect the cruze).


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

Top Tier is a _recommended_ standard, not a _requirement_.


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## rbtec (Feb 3, 2012)

GoldenCruze said:


> Top Tier is a _recommended_ standard, not a _requirement_.


Just filled up with Mobil. Usually get Shell. Wonder if there is a difference.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

I am coming to a better understanding of this Top Tier thing. It's been interesting to me since there are only few Shell stations in town and that's the only Top Tier brand around here. BP has a refinery here and there are BP stations all over town (two within a mile of me). BP isn't a TT player, however. Sunoco has a refinery here and there are Sunoco stations all over town too. Sunoco is also not a TT player. 

Chevy Cruze is a TT player and the '12 Owner's Manual "recommends" TT gas and if you don't use it, you should put GM's detergent in the tank every oil change. 

Honda (a TT player) Civic '12 Owner's Manual "endorses" TT gas, but does not mention using additional additives if you don't use TT gas.

Mazda (not a TT player) makes no mention of TT gas in the '12 Mazda3 Owner's Manual. This is for their new SkyActive (12:1 compression, Direct Injection) motor too. Nor do they mention using additional additives. 

While the TT standard may be useful, I still question/wonder if it is really that important? It's not a cost issue, as I figure it's about $25 a year more for the TT/detergent option for the miles I drive. I also wonder what the membership costs to join the club? Just asking.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...here's what *GM* *TechLine™ *says is *why* *TOP TIER gasoline *is highly recommended (notice our 1.4LT (LUJ) engine is included):

Fuel Contamination in Returnless Fuel Systems - GM Techlink


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## mr_raider (Aug 13, 2011)

mcg75 said:


> First of all, Top tier gas is voluntary for both the consumer and the gas companies.
> 
> Secondly, top tier was created by Audi, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen together not the gas companies.


Why do Ford, Chrysler, MB, Nissan and Mazda not recommend top tier gas? Are their engines immune to buildup? There's a trail of money somewhere here that needs to be sniffed out.


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## rbtec (Feb 3, 2012)

mr_raider said:


> Why do Ford, Chrysler, MB, Nissan and Mazda not recommend top tier gas? Are their engines immune to buildup? There's a trail of money somewhere here that needs to be sniffed out.


Not sure what all the fuss is about. At least in my area top tier gas does not cost any more that non top tier.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

I'll be honest i dont pay attention to any of this kind of stuff. Normally when my light comes on i just stop at the first station i see and put 87 in my car. If i am close to base i might drive to there for the few cents in savings but thats it. And i still get 5-7 mpg better than epa estimated city for the 1.8 and 8-10 mpg better highway and my car runs and drives with no issues.

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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...here's what *GM* *TechLine™ *says is *why* *TOP TIER gasoline *is highly recommended (notice our 1.4LT (LUJ) engine is included):
> 
> Fuel Contamination in Returnless Fuel Systems - GM Techlink


Thanks. I now remember reading that article and forgot about it. It tells me the recommendation is due to the design of the Cruze fuel delivery system. I can understand it better now. It's just too bad, there are no Top Tier retailers near me to use. If I get a Cruze, I'll just buy a case of GM's detergent and put it on the shelf next to the motor oil in my garage. I'll continue putting that crappy old Sunoco gas in my car like I've been doing for the last decade or so.


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

> Just filled up with Mobil. Usually get Shell. Wonder if there is a difference.


Mobile is Top Tier.


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## GoldenCruze (Dec 18, 2011)

> Why do Ford, Chrysler, MB, Nissan and Mazda not recommend top tier gas? Are their engines immune to buildup? There's a trail of money somewhere here that needs to be sniffed out.


There is money involved. The manufacturers spent quite a bit developing the standard and implementing it so that we can have more reliable vehicles. That's what it is about. And I honestly don't care if the auto manufacturers are getting some sort of subsidy from the gasoline retailers that are willing to meet the standard.


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## cornbreesha (Apr 29, 2012)

GoldenCruze said:


> Mobile is Top Tier.


 The only supposed top tier station around here is Mobil & they have the contains 10% ethanol signs. Every station I've been to in my area is the same. So I would doubt that all the nice detergents would negate the effects of the ethanol? I'm leasing, but am really happy with my Cruze & thought of purchasing at the end. This makes me rethink everything because who knows if the car will even last after the lease is up LOL. Quite ridiculous having all this crap flowing into our cars, probably shortening engine life by half who knows... We're still paying the same or more, while they are getting tax credits for cutting our so called "gasoline" with cheap and genetically modified corn industry byproducts.

NickD mentioned about the ethanol production being just as bad as the fossil fuels, etc and I agree. A proposal was made to open an ethanol factory/refinery(?) right near my work, but there was too much of an environmental impact and community backlash, so it didn't happen thankfully.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

GoldenCruze said:


> There is money involved. The manufacturers spent quite a bit developing the standard and implementing it so that we can have more reliable vehicles. That's what it is about. And I honestly don't care if the auto manufacturers are getting some sort of subsidy from the gasoline retailers that are willing to meet the standard.


Trust me, whether it really better gas or not, it isnt about helping us as the consumers. If it was then every vehicle manufacturer would be fighting to get in on it if not for the 'better products' and 'reliability' then at the very least for the positive Public relations. 

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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

silverls said:


> Trust me, whether it really better gas or not, it isnt about helping us as the consumers. If it was then every vehicle manufacturer would be fighting to get in on it if not for the 'better products' and 'reliability' then at the very least for the positive Public relations.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


I'm sure that all other companies had a shot at getting in when it was proposed years ago. If they didn't pay for the study then, why let them in now?

It's hilarious how many conspiracy theorists come out of the woods during stuff like this. It's pretty simple. If you don't want to use top tier gas then don't use it because nobody requires you to. 

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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

Its not about conspiracy theory's, its about realizing that every major company in the world is all about making money. That is how they got so large to begin with. They constantly look for ways to make more money. This is getting off topic so i am gonna stop. I was not trying to say that Top Tier gasoline wasn't better or a great product. I don't know either way because i don't bother with it. What i was trying to say is that its not about helping the consumer (even if it does) it is about making money. 

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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

GM can recommend TT fuel all they want. However if it's not reasonably available we as consumers cannot comply to that recommendation. 

IMO, this is similar to the RVs and ATVs that supposedly can't run on 10% Ethanol. Yes, they run better on 100% gas, but they will also run just fine on 10% ethanol.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> IMO, this is similar to the RVs and ATVs that supposedly can't run on 10% Ethanol. Yes, they run better on 100% gas, but they will also run just fine on 10% ethanol.


Until the carb clogs up. I've had to replace one in a weedeater and a leafblower recently from that ethanol crap. Each is less than 2 years old. Small engines don't like it.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

An engine these days will run on anything really. Company i used to work for put e85 in its box trucks. 2002 GMCs with 350 v8 and not flex fuel rated and they ran and drove fine fir the 4 years i was there. Now did they run at peak efficiency and power? Doubt it. But e85 was $0.30 cheaper per gallon so who could blame them lol

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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

silverls said:


> Its not about conspiracy theory's, its about realizing that every major company in the world is all about making money. That is how they got so large to begin with. They constantly look for ways to make more money. This is getting off topic so i am gonna stop. I was not trying to say that Top Tier gasoline wasn't better or a great product. I don't know either way because i don't bother with it. What i was trying to say is that its not about helping the consumer (even if it does) it is about making money.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


And that is exactly my point. You can always follow the money trail to get the scoop. 

Except where does the money trail go here? GM isn't going to pay gas companies for a voluntary standard. The gas companies aren't going to eat the cost of added detergents plus pay GM. Where exactly do you think money is changing hands here?


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## rbtec (Feb 3, 2012)

silverls said:


> An engine these days will run on anything really. Company i used to work for put e85 in its box trucks. 2002 GMCs with 350 v8 and not flex fuel rated and they ran and drove fine fir the 4 years i was there. Now did they run at peak efficiency and power? Doubt it. But e85 was $0.30 cheaper per gallon so who could blame them lol
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


That was very stupid. Even if the car ran on E85, the gas mileage would have been 25 - 30% less than E10 gasoline. That pretty much defeats the cost savings of E85 being cheaper.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

mcg75 said:


> And that is exactly my point. You can always follow the money trail to get the scoop.
> 
> Except where does the money trail go here? GM isn't going to pay gas companies for a voluntary standard. The gas companies aren't going to eat the cost of added detergents plus pay GM. Where exactly do you think money is changing hands here?


GM makes money by charging the gas companies for referring people to their product based on sales increases once the process started. And the gas companies who offer top tier see increased sales due to consumers being referred to their particular gasoline. Plenty of people out there are sheep who would see a recommendation and consider it to be the only thing they should be putting in their tank even if it meant driving 20 minutes out of their way ( increasing the amount of gas they need to buy and upping sales in itself ) and there was no scientific evidence to back it up. 

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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

jblackburn said:


> Until the carb clogs up. I've had to replace one in a weedeater and a leafblower recently from that ethanol crap. Each is less than 2 years old. Small engines don't like it.


It really depends on the design of the engine the E10 is being used in. I had one of the first four stroke OHV weed trimmers made. I purchased it in 1993 and ran it until the cam went soft in 2009. It ran on the same crappy Sunoco gas I put in my cars and lawnmower. The only reason I replaced it with another four stroker was the parts and labor were more than the new trimmer ($194). Oh yeah, the lawn mower has been running on the same Sunoco since '98 and starts on the first pull every time. You can't buy E0 here, so E10 is what you got. If Chevy says the Cruze needs TT gas, or regular injections of detergent, I believe them, but it shouldn't have to be that way. Others can engineer and design engines that don't have issues like that.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

I use 93 Exxon, and my Cruze LOVES it. And I've used 93 from BP, Sunoco, Getgo, Sheetz, and Marathon. I'd like to try a tank of Shell sometime if I can find a station..


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

Jim Frye said:


> You can't buy E0 here, so E10 is what you got.


No place in NW Ohio have stations selling 100% gasoline, but if you live near the west or north border see if stations sell 100% gasoline in other states.


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

silverls said:


> GM makes money by charging the gas companies for referring people to their product based on sales increases once the process started. And the gas companies who offer top tier see increased sales due to consumers being referred to their particular gasoline. Plenty of people out there are sheep who would see a recommendation and consider it to be the only thing they should be putting in their tank even if it meant driving 20 minutes out of their way ( increasing the amount of gas they need to buy and upping sales in itself ) and there was no scientific evidence to back it up.
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using AutoGuide.Com Free App


So you seem to think that GM, Honda, Toyota, BMW and Volkswagen are making big bucks off top tier gas. LOL. 

And yeah, there is scientific proof that it works as well. Anybody wanting to become top tier has to pass several tests to do so. 

Top Tier Gasoline

It's funny that when GM went bankrupt, top tier gas was never mentioned by anyone as a source of income for the company.


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## rbtec (Feb 3, 2012)

litesong said:


> No place in NW Ohio have stations selling 100% gasoline, but if you live near the west or north border see if stations sell 100% gasoline in other states.


Very few in Michigan. Nothing near the border.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

mcg75 said:


> So you seem to think that GM, Honda, Toyota, BMW and Volkswagen are making big bucks off top tier gas. LOL.
> 
> And yeah, there is scientific proof that it works as well. Anybody wanting to become top tier has to pass several tests to do so. .


I am sorry if I was not clear, I was not trying to say that there was no scientific proof for TT Gas. I was trying to say that it wouldn't matter even if there wasn't because there are still millions of people who would go out of their way to use it just because the manufacturer recommended it.

Let me ask you this, simply because I do not know, nor do i care enough to go look. How long has top tier gas been around? Or more importantly, how long have car companies been recommending it for use in their vehicles, like GM. Like I said before, it is a process that must start. IF they are doing business the way I stated above, and no I am not saying that they are (you asked me to give an example of how they could be making money off the deal) It would take time before money started to flow. Time for enough people to see the recommendation and start using more top tier gas so that sales when up a high enough margin for kickbacks from the gas companies to auto manufacturers to occur. I mean if this has been all around for 15-20 years now then obviously that is not the case and no one is making extra money and i am the arsehole. but if it has only been a couple years, say 2 or 3, then enough time might just not have passed.


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## mcg75 (Mar 5, 2012)

Top tier has been around since 1995. The history is at their website.

I agree 100% with you about these companies being in it for the money in the vast, vast majority of these cases. I think in this case, top tier was brought about to lessen warranty issues with carbon etc rather than a direct profit.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## Daisy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

litesong said:


> Originally Posted by *litesong*
> Unfortunately, only 25 stations sell 100% gasoline in Ohio. There is some 87 octane 100% gasoline at 9481 State Rt 708 North, Russells Point, OH? Do you have any regular business there, away from Lima, OH?
> /////////////////////////////
> rbtec wrote:
> ...


Just because the state has them doesn't mean it is viable to go to them. For instance I live in Sterling Virginia. There are stations in Virginia that sell pure gas but all of them are hundreds of miles away. In some regions people are not given the choice which artificially inflates the demand. Some of us have no means to vote with our dollars. The only thing people like me can do is write to their congressman and tell them that we want pure gasoline.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

litesong said:


> No place in NW Ohio have stations selling 100% gasoline, but if you live near the west or north border see if stations sell 100% gasoline in other states.


Good thoughts, but not practical. Indiana is 91 miles away by interstate. Michigan has so much tax on gasoline that folks that live there drive into OH to buy gas. A couple of weeks ago, I was filling up at the nearby cheapie Sunoco and there was a guy from MI with a half dozen 5 gal. cans in his pickemup truck filling everything he could. 

Actually, I have no issues with non-TT E10, other than the impact on the economy. Both cars are running fine and beating the EPA "estimates" that were on the window stickers and have had no engine problems at all after 10 and 15 years respectively. The string trimmer, lawn mower, and snow thrower all run just fine and each is many years old. Yeah, I'd like to have the better mileage that E0 offers, but it's just not available here.


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## Starks8 (Jul 20, 2011)

Is 85/87 100% gasoline better than 91/93 octane gas with 10% ethanol in it? I'm worried that the gas stations that I could drive to in VA that sell 100% gasoline and have the 91/93 grade wouldn't be any better because they most likely don't get used and have just sat in the ground forever if it's even 91/93 at all and not just labeled and priced as it is.


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

Daisy81 said:


> I live in Sterling Virginia. There are stations in Virginia that sell pure gas but all of them are hundreds of miles away.


Thirty seven miles from Sterling in Charles Town, W. Virginia, there is 87 octane pure(ethanol-free) gas. Maybe you travel that way fairly often? There are other stations selling 100% pure gas closer than hundreds of miles from you, too. Go to pure-gas.org for a great zoomable map to find them.

In Royal Front, VA, 58miles away, there is 100% pure gas. Find the closest 100% pure gas stations to you & when you travel in those directions, fill-up.


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## litesong (Oct 14, 2011)

Starks8 said:


> Is 85/87 100% gasoline better than.....


85 octane at low elevations is too low an octane for some cars. However, above 2000-3000 feet, 85 octane in 100% pure gasoline would be fine.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

litesong said:


> Thirty seven miles from Sterling in Charles Town, W. Virginia, there is 87 octane pure(ethanol-free) gas. Maybe you travel that way fairly often? There are other stations selling 100% pure gas closer than hundreds of miles from you, too. Go to pure-gas.org for a great zoomable map to find them.
> 
> In Royal Front, VA, 58miles away, there is 100% pure gas. Find the closest 100% pure gas stations to you & when you travel in those directions, fill-up.


No one goes that way often hahaha.


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## SilverIce2012 (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm wondering the same thing too... the manual for my Cruze says use Top Tier. I've filled up twice so far+used 87 grade (Sunoco) gas. I don't know if it matters...my 2012 is 1.4 turbo charged. Opinions??


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## Big Grouch (Apr 16, 2012)

The manual says 87 octane, so that part is OK. Sunoco is not top tier, according to the web site. Who knows what the difference is. They say some glop you can buy at the dealer for about $15 can be added if you don't use top tier. I use top tier most of the time because every station in town seems to have the same price. I also use 4 ounces of Lucas at about 3000 miles, I always have done that on all my cars.


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## SilverIce2012 (Aug 9, 2012)

Thanks! I filled up w Mobil gas Plus (89 Octane), and my car has been running smoother w better pick-up. You can be sure I'll use Mobil gas from now on!


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## SilverIce2012 (Aug 9, 2012)

PS--after reading on the Mobil website, it appears 87 octane will be just fine for my car. As long as it's top tier gas, as the owners manual says. SO Mobile/87 is what I'll use from now on.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Interestingly, at a nearby corner, one gas station is *Chevron* and directly across the intersection is a *Shell*...but BOTH are operated under the "*GIANT*" franchise!


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> Interestingly, at a nearby corner, one gas station is *Chevron* and directly across the intersection is a *Shell*...but BOTH are operated under the "*GIANT*" franchise!


It's common for this. In fact, I can pull into my Chevron station and drive into the Shell next door. I commonly see these two stations together or in very short proximity.


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## SilverIce2012 (Aug 9, 2012)

do you pour Lucas right into your gas tank??


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

*Consequences of NOT using top tier gasoline:* May also apply to the Cruze.

"TECHNICAL

Bulletin No.: 03-06-04-030G

Date: April 22, 2009

Subject:
Various Driveability Symptoms Due to Clogged Fuel Injectors, MIL/SES DTCs P0171, P0172, P0174, P0300, P1174, P1175 (Clean Fuel Injectors and/or Perform Injector Test With AFIT CH-47976)

Models:
2005-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2005-2009 HUMMER H2
2006-2009 HUMMER H3
2005-2009 Saab 9-7X

Zoom and Print Options
46_03-06-04-030G_tbl-001.png


Equipped with Engine RPOs listed in the Table above and MULTEC(R) 2 Fuel Injectors

Attention:
GM does not support cleaning injectors on any engines that are not listed in this bulletin. Engines other than the ones listed in this bulletin that diagnosis indicates having restricted injectors should have those injectors replaced.

Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to update the model year to 2009 and to provide applicable engine RPO table. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-04-030F (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).

Condition

Some customers may comment on any of the following various driveability symptoms:

- Extended Crank Time

- Hard to Start

- MIL/SES Illuminated with DTCs

- Hesitation

- Lack of Power

- Surge or Chuggle

- Rough Idle

- Light or Intermittent Misfire

Cause

Due to various factors, the fuel injectors may become restricted. Extensive testing has demonstrated that fuel related issues are the cause of clogged injectors. At this point, no specific fuel, fuel constituent, or engine condition has been identified as causing the restriction. The restriction causes the engine to operate at a lean air fuel ratio. This may either trigger the MIL to illuminate or the engine to develop various driveability symptoms. 

Correction

Fuel injector restrictions, deposits can be cleaned on the vehicle using the following procedure. Under NO circumstances should this procedure be modified, changed or shortened. As a long term solution, and to prevent reoccurrence, *customers should be encouraged to use Top Tier Detergent Gasoline.* For further information on Top Tier detergent gasoline and fuel retailers, please refer to the following Corporate Bulletin Numbers:

- 04-06-04-047G (U.S. Only)
- 05-06-04-022D (Canada ONLY)

Notice
*GM UPPER ENGINE AND FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER is the only injector cleaning agent approved for use with General Motors fuel system components.* Other injector cleaners may cause damage to plastics, plated metals or bearings. General Motors has completed extensive laboratory testing of GM Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner, and can assure its compatibility with General Motors fuel system components, as long as the cleaning procedure is followed correctly."


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Is there a newer bulletin than the one NickD posted.? His was written before the first Cruze rolled off the line in Lordstown.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Is it to wrong to assume that injectors are injectors? Major difference is the nozzle size, and you can bet your last buck that the nozzles in the Cruze engine are much smaller prone to further restrictions.

Ethanol really screwed up the injectors in my 88 Supra using a brass tipped nozzle, but was able to save those with a lot of work. But new ones would only cost 600 bucks, only to corrode shut after a couple of tank fulls.

I think about that when buying gas, only the very best goes into my vehicle's. Now I am favoring Mobil 91 octane top tier ethanol free gas. Nice little station I pass by frequently ten miles north of town.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Decided to post on this old topic since the website Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada was mentioned earlier in this thread. Allot of the info on that website about what stations have 100% gas and what octane they offer is incorrect. You can update any of this outdated info or add new locations without creating an account, I think I did a dozen locally in a few minutes. Think it would be great if other cruze owners updated any they find too. 

One local Mobil station I drove by today that always had the cheapest premium (93octane 10% ethanol) now has a sign out front saying "premium contains no ethanol". Drove in and sure enough the fuel is now 91 octane with no ethanol.


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## DVSLTZ (Apr 12, 2013)

audog said:


> I have found that mine runs best on 93 Octane Shell gasoline, don't know why, but it seems to get about 2 mpg better with the Shell, than with other brands


 I agree ,I have been using shell v-power and the car runs so much better ,smoother,more responsive ,and a little further on a tank of gas .From 87 octane to 91 or higher it's a matter of 5-6 dollars difference more to fill but it feels like it has a little more power then when I run 87 octane .Well worth the $5,and I know my engine is cleaner, injectors stay clean ,no carbon build up = lower maintenance costs down the road.


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## mikemegs (Mar 27, 2013)

For me, the 5 or 6 dollar difference each time I fill up, whice is 2 to 3 times a week adds up to around $575 a year difference so I am using 87 exclusivly now. I do know that 87, 89, and 93 rated gasolines have the same detergents or cleaning additives within the gas itself. This subject seems relative to the driving and vehicle you have, but I have tried all three grades and the difference for me in my 2013 is about 1mpg difference, and the car drives seems to drive the same on all three so its a no brainer for my application.


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## Philb (Jun 18, 2016)

I had a 1998 Acura which built up carbon that had to be cleaned out every so often. Not an easy job and not cheap so I learned my lesson and use top tier as recommended. I have a Mobil station near me so it's no problem to fill up there and the price is only a few cents more than a no-name brand. Even when I"m traveling it's not a problem to find a top tier station on my route.


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## Chevy_Country (Oct 16, 2015)

The TTDG refers to the detergents in the gas to help keep the engine deposit clear, nothing to do with the octane number (87, 89, 91.. ) however if a top tier detergent gas isn't available when you need to fill up, I suggest going for the higher octane because it runs hotter and thus cleaner, and you may get 1-2 mpg more. You can also use a fuel additive offered at most gas stations for gas treatment, with the lower quality gas thats not guaranteed, to help prevent carbon deposit. 

I use TTDG every fill up and around the time I change my oil I run shell v power 93 or 91 octane (I can't remember I feel like it was 93 for some reason) WITH a fuel injection system cleaner to help clean out any deposits that may have built up despite my efforts.

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