# Chevy Cruze Maximum Speed



## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...same date and time? same temperature and winds?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

nitrogen doesnt really have any effect, it's a scam for the most part


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...*AIR* is 78% nitrogen already, with 21% oxygen...that's almost a 5-to-1 ratio already.


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## bilo78 (Feb 3, 2011)

i also though so , but that what happened, driving conditions was on same road same weather


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## bilo78 (Feb 3, 2011)

21% of oxygen makes big difference , 100% nitrogen is realy different , touch the tire with ur hand after a long driving in a hot day and u can c the tire is barley warm , while if its air filled it will be too hot to touch , just try


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

but you dropped PSI by 3 pounds. that's quite a bit for high speeds. your rolling resistance will increase with a larger footprint.


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## bilo78 (Feb 3, 2011)

yes may be the 3 psi increase in pressure will give u 30km/h more , anyway what i know about nitrogen is that it never expands and has a stable temperature no matter what is pressure and running conditions, this might give 30km/h more


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

bilo78 said:


> yes may be the 3 psi increase in pressure will give u 30km/h more , anyway what i know about nitrogen is that it never expands and has a stable temperature no matter what is pressure and running conditions, this might give 30km/h more


it does expand. it's not a thermally stable element. it is more stable than NOA, but believe it or not, you do want heat in the tires if you want grip. you also want this heat at a certain pressure. Pressure and temperature are interdependent of each other. the lower the pressure, the more heat the tire generates. the higher the pressure, the less heat the tire generates.

since this engine does not produce incredible amounts of HP at high speeds, you don't really have to worry about wheel slip. so running higher pressures gives you a less-resistant tire, which means more power makes it to the ground propelling you forward.

your issue is tires, not air.


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> nitrogen doesn't really have any effect, it's a scam for the most part


And a profitable scam too


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...*AIR* is 78% nitrogen already, with 21% oxygen...that's almost a 5-to-1 ratio already.


There you go again, using logic. Darn, I hate it when logic enters into a discussion.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

montgom626 said:


> There you go again, using logic. Darn, I hate it when *logic* enters into a discussion.


...as Jack Webb's Sargent Joe Friday used to say: _"...*Facts* Ma'am, nothing but the *facts*"_ (ha,ha).


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

Running pure nitrogen does have benefits in certain applications. Some race cars use it because it does not expand as much as plain air under the heated conditions they run. It is also used in vehicles that run very low pressure, since it is heavier there is less of a chance that it will leak around the bead. I personally have experience with it in dirt track late models and it that scenario it can be the difference between winning an losing.

That said I believe the difference here was the 3 extra PSI ran with the nitrogen filled tires. Even though it doesn't seem like much it will make a huge difference in the rolling resistance. It is my belief that had plain ol air been used the same result would have been obtained or it may have been even easier to reach that speed since the pressure has a greater chance to increase giving even less resistance.

Just my 2 cents


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...also, airlines (and race cars) use pure nitrogen instead of air because it's _not_ flammable in the event of a brake failure that results in overheating of the brakes or tires.

...magnesium (metal) fires are almost impossible to put out once started, so the goal is to inhibit their starting in the first place, so the absence of oxygen in the pressurized tires is a huge safety PLUS.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

well i'll tell ya there's very VERY few motorcycle road racers using nitrogen in their tires. pressure dictates flex, flex dictates temperature, temperature effects pressure.

wash rinse repeat until it stabilizes.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...well, it's true, *AIR* is free -- except at _some_ (unnamed) gas stations -- and _canned_ *nitrogen* isn't (wink,wink).


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

Knightslugger said:


> well i'll tell ya there's very VERY few motorcycle road racers using nitrogen in their tires. pressure dictates flex, flex dictates temperature, temperature effects pressure.
> 
> wash rinse repeat until it stabilizes.



I can't speak for motorcycles but I can tell you the you still get the heat in the but with minimal pressure change and one can effectively control how hot a tire will get under certain conditions. Tire gets hot, heat increases pressure, tire loses grip increasing heat. Nitrogen will slow this process.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

most times you don't want to slow the process. tires get hotter on track than on warmers. you can set PSI on warmers if you like, they'll get you close, but they wont be at operating temperature until you're actually piloting the thing.

However, once the tires are up to Operating temperature due to the driving/riding style, two things happen: the pressure in the tire is keeping the flex in the carcass at such a point that it isn't introducing more heat into the air, so they no longer effect each other.

Tires really are self regulating creatures. understanding the balance, cause and effect, will get you far.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

10 minutes expired (lame) 

continued:

if your pressures are all ready up to to hot temps... the carcass is going to have a hard time getting to operating temp, which will cause cold tears. not good.


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## anjy834u (Feb 4, 2011)

nitrogen is scam ??? what makes u say that ??


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

All I can say I guess is that bike tires must work differently than car tires because I have used nitrogen for years and I know factually that it does work.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

There's nothing really different between car tires and bike tires. we both use tire flex to put heat into the rubber. the faster you heat the tire, and this is true of both cars and bikes, the sooner you can get on with the race. tires work best at a certain PSI when hot and they only get hot from use. sure you can bake them, but that's not the same. It's been most of our experiences that nitrogen doesn't provide the necessary flex in the tire to heat it quickly. it takes a LONG time once you start your race, and you have to preheat the tires to a hotter temp, which poses it's own issues. I'll add to it that since the self regulation of the temp/pressure relationship is gone, you have to kind of trust the track and your piloting to maintain heat. we can deal with a half PSI or so off, but we can't deal with lack of heat. if the tires start to cool off, it presents a very difficult task of reheating them without putting yourself on the ground (lack of grip).

ya see, we take crashing a bit more serious than a Sports Car...


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

It doesn't appear that we are ever going to agree on this but I do think that we can agree that nitrogen was not the deciding factor in the speed change in this test.


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spyder said:


> It doesn't appear that we are ever going to agree on this.


I am 79% convinced that nitrogen makes a difference.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

Spyder said:


> It doesn't appear that we are ever going to agree on this but I do think that we can agree that nitrogen was not the deciding factor in the speed change in this test.


yes, on both counts.


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

Actually, instead of nitrogen in the tires which I do think has a slight benefit (but not enough to notice on our cars), it would have been better if the tires on the Cruze would be filled with Argon gas. Argon is a larger molecule and is the least reactive of all elements. It is also as easily obtainable as nitrogen. And if I recall, several higher priced luxury cars use argon in their tires as the argon gas gives a quieter ride.

Also, since this topic is about the Cruze maximum speed, I don't know what the max speed actually is but I got my Cruze up to 108 MPH a few days ago.


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

montgom626 said:


> I am 79% convinced that nitrogen makes a difference.


In this test or the other argument?

Like Knightslugger said and I agree with him about the 3 PSI difference between the tests would be the factor here, it might not seem like much but 3 PSI really does make a huge difference in resistance.

How would N2 alone change the end result of this test? I have been over and over this in my head and I just can't come up with a plausible answer to that one. In everyday tires heat in tires really won't change the top speed of a car in a strait line for that matter I don't think that it would even make a difference in racing stickies, it would make a difference in traction sure but not top speed.

The only things I am coming up with that will change top speed are power, weight, and resistance from the tires and surrounding air, everything comes back to those three things.

If there is another explanation I would be happy to hear it because I am drawing a blank for one.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...of the three *drag* forces--rolling, friction & aero--aero has the _biggest_ impact at speed because it's a squared-function of velocity:

*F(drag) = A + B*V + C*V^2*

...where:
F(drag) = total drag force
*V* = vehicle speed or velocity
A = rolling or 'static' drag; tires
B = friction or 'mechanical' drag; brakes, pumps, etc.
*C* = aero drag; frontal area, coefficient of drag, air density, etc.

...thus, _doubling_ your speed will _quadruple_ the aero drag force!


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...of the three *drag* forces--rolling, friction & aero--aero has the _biggest_ impact at speed because it's a squared-function of velocity:
> 
> *F(drag) = A + B*V + C*V^2*
> 
> ...



I have seen about twenty formulas from you and I gotta know, are all these right out of your head or do you look them up?


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spyder said:


> I have seen about twenty formulas from you and I gotta know, are all these right out of your head or do you look them up?


I think he has a very big head, and so he still has to look them up


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...thus, _doubling_ your speed will _quadruple_ the aero drag force!


Wow, so may I conclude that the faster I drive my Cruze, the less mpg???


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

No once you get to 18000 mph drag goes away.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

..._ex-college_ instructors know what _libraries_ are for (wink,wink).

..._your_ task is to use GOOGLE and check their validity (ha,ha).


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

bilo78 said:


> 21% of oxygen makes big difference , 100% nitrogen is realy different , touch the tire with ur hand after a long driving in a hot day and u can c the tire is barley warm , while if its air filled it will be too hot to touch , just try


The friction coefficient of your tires is not incredibly changed by a 21% difference in gas content of the tires. When I worked on aircraft nitrogen was a must due to the atmospheric differences the aircraft went through more so than anything else. It's a waste of money for public road driven cars IMO. Like someone said above you want your tires warm and sticky at high speeds.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> The friction coefficient of your tires is not incredibly changed by a 21% difference in gas content of the tires.


I disagree.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Knightslugger said:


> I disagree.


I'm talking public road speeds and conditions. Took tire temp readings at school between the two and there is no real difference. We didn't get into anything major until we did our track cars. I also said "incredibly changed"


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> I'm talking public road speeds and conditions.


well we're not...


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## strick8 (Jan 9, 2011)




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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

125 mph really isn't that fast... (insert sound of air inflating a balloon)


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Knightslugger said:


> well we're not...


If you read the post I quoted you would see that indeed my response was to a normal conditions topic.


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## TSURacing (Jan 1, 2011)

Knightslugger said:


> 125 mph really isn't that fast... (insert sound of air inflating a balloon)


No, not when you are used to bumping buck-fitty every two minutes......and that's your resting time.


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

Knightslugger said:


> well we're not...


Yeah, actually what this thread topic is about is the Chevy Cruze Maximum Speed.



Knightslugger said:


> 125 mph really isn't that fast... (insert sound of air inflating a balloon)


125 mph IS actually very fast for the Chevy Cruze.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

if you say so.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Knightslugger said:


> if you say so.





bilo78 said:


> 21% of oxygen makes big difference , 100% nitrogen is realy different , *touch the tire with ur hand after a long driving in a hot day and u can c the tire is barley warm* , while if its air filled it will be too hot to touch , just try


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)

Spaceme said:


> Yeah, actually what this thread topic is about is the Chevy Cruze Maximum Speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 125 mph IS actually very fast for the Chevy Cruze.


Yes and that lead to a small debate about the benefit or lack of benefit of nitrogen usage. My argument was that it has its applications in racing and that is why we were just a little off topic.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> blah blah blah


this entire topic is about extraordinary conditions. i see nothing in that reply about legal speeds or street driving, just long, hot driving. assumed perhaps, but that's not what the topic is about. If you want to start a topic about street worthiness of nitrogen in tires, start your own discussion elsewhere.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Knightslugger said:


> this entire topic is about extraordinary conditions. i see nothing in that reply about legal speeds or street driving, just long, hot driving. assumed perhaps, but that's not what the topic is about. If you want to start a topic about street worthiness of nitrogen in tires, start your own discussion elsewhere.


It came from the OP so seems pretty on topic to me.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...everybody be NICE

...or we'll be forced to 'lock' this posting and consider issuing 'demerits.'








...(where's that catholic school teacher, with the 'wicked' ruler, when you _really _need her?)


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## Spyder (Dec 26, 2010)




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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> It came from the OP so seems pretty on topic to me.


Oh I can tell we're going to be good friends...

i'm done here. I've made my points, well thought out, reasoned, and with experience as to the _original_ topic of this thread. i have nothing left to say.


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## Senistr (Jul 28, 2011)

As far as I know...My buddy and I both have the same 2006 Highlander. He has Nitrogen filled tires and I have Air in my tires...we can both go down the autubahn and match eachother's speeds, acceleration, and everything else. So as far as my worres, the only REAL difference is he doesn't have to air up his tires as much as I do...which isn't bad but that means he also doesn't check his tires as much as I do...which is not very safe.


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## Quazar (Apr 28, 2011)

Very interesting.....

So one person introduced the science which a lot of people seemed to ignore, which really is the only valid way to show either side of the argument.

I do know for a fact that a 21% difference in nitrogen in the tires does not impact the coefficient of drag on the car, even the 3psi does not impact the coefficient of drag enough to account for a 30kmh difference in top speed. 

Drag to hp is the limiting factor on this cars top speed, to exceed the 131/132 mph top speed recorded by Car&Driver on the track, as well as other magazines you either need to increase HP or significantly reduce drag. 

Also using nitrogen is mainly because compressed nitrogen has less moisture/volume than normal air and thus the expansion of the tires due to heat is more consistent and predictable. Mainly its a safety issue, one that Nitrogen helps solve.

Bottom line, its not scientifically possible for nitrogen at same tires pressures to improve top speed in any measurable amount. The weight difference in that 21% of air volume from 32g/mol to 28g/mol is not significant enough to measure unless you were able to eliminate all other variables. You can argue it all you want, but its just not possible. 

The 3psi would make a difference, because it would reduce the amount of drag the tires create. The average impact of 3psi on mpg is .9 mpg difference. I don't know the exact amount of drag difference, so I can't calculate top speed difference. But I am 99% positive the impact on drag is not enough to impact top speed by over 15%.

Bottom line, there were other variables at play.


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## Cruzzer (Dec 13, 2010)

Jeez, will it ever end


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...deja vu:



70AARCUDA said:


> ...of the three *drag* forces--rolling, friction & aero--*aero* has the _biggest_ impact at speed because it's a squared-function of velocity:
> 
> *F(drag) = A + B*V + C*V^2*
> 
> ...


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