# Synthetic Oil vs. Regular Oil



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

What's "regular oil"? Like, standard dino oil? How often have you been changing? You are required to use a Dexos-1 approved oil on this car or you'll void the powertrain warranty. Dexos-1 oils are at least a semi-synthetic.

Yes, synthetic oil is a great idea, and you can extend your oil changes to 7,500-10,000 miles depending on your driving.


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## Nickruckusnj (May 30, 2012)

Just standard oil. I don't really ask what they put in. Its just standard oil for a regular oil change. I get it done every 3,000 - 3,500 miles.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Multiple people here will tell you to go to Mobil 1. If I were doing my own oil changes I would probably do this as well. In any case, you want to go with a Dexos 1 certified or compatible oil. Not all oil manufacturers are willing to pay the ransom (license) fee to be listed as Dexos 1 Certified, but they still produce a Dexos 1 compatible oil.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Nickruckusnj said:


> Just standard oil. I don't really ask what they put in. Its just standard oil for a regular oil change. I get it done every 3,000 - 3,500 miles.


By going with a full or semi synthetic Dexos 1 oil you can safely extend your oil change interval to around 7,500 miles. Who is "they"?


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## Nickruckusnj (May 30, 2012)

They is Midas


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## Jabbo (Nov 1, 2012)

I've been told that once you switch to a synthetic oil that there is no going back to a regular oil. don't know how true that is but it puts me in a bind since I bought my '12 Cruze used. I don't see that I have any choice but to use a synthetic for my first oil change.


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## cronyjabrony (Aug 10, 2012)

I use what ever is recommended.


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## MikeW (Nov 29, 2010)

Jabbo said:


> I've been told that once you switch to a synthetic oil that there is no going back to a regular oil. don't know how true that is


It is absolutely not true. As long as you use an acceptably rated oil there is no problem switching between synthetic and regular oil. However, if your Cruze has the 1.4 turbo, you should probably avoid the cheaper "regular" oil anyway.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Jabbo said:


> I've been told that once you switch to a synthetic oil that there is no going back to a regular oil. don't know how true that is but it puts me in a bind since I bought my '12 Cruze used. I don't see that I have any choice but to use a synthetic for my first oil change.


Not true.


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## Jabbo (Nov 1, 2012)

MikeW said:


> It is absolutely not true. As long as you use an acceptably rated oil there is no problem switching between synthetic and regular oil. However, if your Cruze has the 1.4 turbo, you should probably avoid the cheaper "regular" oil anyway.


Thanks, that clears up that misconception. Will the difference in price be complensated by the better fuel mpg's gained?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Jabbo said:


> Thanks, that clears up that misconception. Will the difference in price be complensated by the better fuel mpg's gained?


You will probably not see a MPG improvement, possibly 1 MPG.

It pays off in that you don't have to change it for twice as long (7500-10000 miles) as discussed earlier in the thread.


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## Jabbo (Nov 1, 2012)

actually exactly when to change the oil is confusing. I think that I could probably go 7500 miles before I'd see the DIC message telling me to change it.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Jabbo said:


> actually exactly when to change the oil is confusing. I think that I could probably go 7500 miles before I'd see the DIC message telling me to change it.


Mine was trending that was. The DIC is accurate for semi-syn or synthetic only. I changed my 2nd oil change at 20% oil life left (~ 8,000 miles), where several indicated that you should change it from an oil analysis test sent in.

I sent mine from a Mobil-1 extended life sample in earlier this week; am awaiting the results.


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## milehigh (Nov 24, 2012)

Look here for the list of acceptable Dexos oils... 

GM dexos information center

I personally run a full synthetic (Mobil 1 5w30) due to the high temperature nature of turbo's. Use synthetic and change when OLM hits 25-30% with confidence. I have learned this from information on UOA (used oil analysis) from owners of the same cars on - Bob is the Oil Guy 

Change it yourself (very easy) to save even more $$.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

I change mine every 6 moths or so, when the OLM hits 0% ish...

Once a year on the truck, cause I don't use it as much. 


Newer oils don't have to be changed as often, neither does the filter if you us a good quality one.

I have had a few friends test they're oil at our facility on the base with 15K km on it and they told them it was about 40% worn. Even out of Diesel trucks that tow campers and boats all the time.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Jabbo said:


> I've been told that once you switch to a synthetic oil that there is no going back to a regular oil. don't know how true that is but it puts me in a bind since I bought my '12 Cruze used. I don't see that I have any choice but to use a synthetic for my first oil change.


That's an urban legend. It's been discussed widely on "Bobistheoilguy.com" and it will not hurt the motor. However, once you've begun with the increased protection of a synthetic lube, there is little reason to stop using it. It will pay dividends in the long run. If you are just leasing, maybe not. At least use what is in the OM.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

Jabbo said:


> I've been told that once you switch to a synthetic oil that there is no going back to a regular oil. don't know how true that is but it puts me in a bind since I bought my '12 Cruze used. I don't see that I have any choice but to use a synthetic for my first oil change.


The reason they tell you this is because of the seals.

"Regular" oil (non synthetic) will get into your gaskets and make them swell causing a seal. When you switch to synthetic, which is a high detergent oil, the "regular" oil will be cleaned away and could potentially leave your gaskets no longer sealed. So you will get some leaking. However, synthetic will eventually get into the seals and will also cause them to swell and thus the leaking will stop. But this is mostly for switching from regular to synthetic.

This is really only a concern with higher mileage cars where the potential for the gaskets to be worn is greater.

Another concern is that some of the synthetic will remain and could cause break down of the regular oil faster than normal. So it's be a good idea to flush the system with 4 quarts, drive 50 miles then change it again will another 4 quarts.

Serious concerns? No. But there are reasons. As far as engine breaks? Not likely.

It's recommend that regular oil is used to break in a new motor but after that you can switch to what ever. I'm pretty sure this won't apply to us (probably any newer motors).

The book says use Dexos-1 rated oils. I use Penzoil Platinum +5 and Mobile 1. 

You should know what goes into your car at all times.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

titan2782 said:


> The reason they tell you this is because of the seals.
> 
> "Regular" oil (non synthetic) will get into your gaskets and make them swell causing a seal. When you switch to synthetic, which is a high detergent oil, the "regular" oil will be cleaned away and could potentially leave your gaskets no longer sealed. So you will get some leaking. However, synthetic will eventually get into the seals and will also cause them to swell and thus the leaking will stop. But this is mostly for switching from regular to synthetic.
> 
> ...


You actually use break-in oil to run in an engine...its neither conventional or synthetic oil like you buy off the shelf.

Its a high Zinc oil...no detergent...and usually a single viscosity like 30weight...etc. This is done to run in the Cam shaft. Its also done at the factory, not by the buyer. The business of having to break in the engine in your new car is total bunk.

I have switched between oils many times...never had issues.

Run recommended oil or better, a quality filter, wait till it goes on sale, change it when the car tells you to and be done with it. 

You wont see an engine failure on a car that has the oil changed at the recommended intervals due to an oil issue. It will be something beyond your control.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Without a doubt, you should be using full synthetic oil in your car. Synthetic Blend will not be good for more than 5-6k miles, and I wouldn't even dare using conventional oil in our cars. Full Synthetic, depending on your driving conditions, will go 7,500-10,000 miles.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

Jordy927 said:


> You actually use break-in oil to run in an engine...its neither conventional or synthetic oil like you buy off the shelf.
> 
> Its a high Zinc oil...no detergent...and usually a single viscosity like 30weight...etc. This is done to run in the Cam shaft. Its also done at the factory, not by the buyer. The business of having to break in the engine in your new car is total bunk.
> 
> ...


Sorry didn't mean to give the impression that the consumer had to do a break in. I meant for building motors. You are correct, there is no need for any consumer to perform this process. 

I always used regular 10-30 and assembly lube on the cam, prime it really good and dump regular in the lifter valley. Done. But that was back in the days of flat tappet cams and lifters.


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## Silver Streak (Jan 5, 2013)

Plenty of myths and also facts out there about oil - synthetic vs. "regular." With the Dexos 1 requirement, and also with the turbo, no one should be using regular oil and running it until 0% on the OLM system. I still do all of my oil changes, so I run Mobil 1 in the Cruze with a WIX oil filter. My standard has changed from the past in that I only am running to 5k miles. I am being very conservative based on what I have personally seen and heard on OLM systems on other GM powertrains. GM was too aggressive and let the customer go too long before changes, and the engines exhibited problems. A reprogramming of software has corrected that issue, together with rebuilding the cam drive systems, but only for dealer visited vehicles. OLM systems are not just mileage dependent. It takes into account engine run time, speed, temperatures and other factors. So even though I run approx. 5k miles, I always reset the OLM system to see where I am at the 5k mark. At approx $25 for a 5+1 jug of Mobil 1, it provides peace of mind knowing that I am not pushing it with my oil changes. Add another $5 for a filter, and I bet most of you are paying $30 going to an instant oil change place and getting good old regular, non Dexos 1 oil. Plus, my belly pan is still intact. Just the way I like it.


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

There is quite a stir about oil these days and a big deal of it is around synthetics and synthetic blends. Conventional, non synthetic oil is thought of as crap because it is cheap. But let us not forget that cars ran for millions of miles on the stuff well before synthetics hit the market. 

Until owning my Cruzes I never used anything but advanced auto parts brand 5w 30 conventional oil. Changed every 4 months or 4000 miles with a new oil filter. I had multiple vehicles see over 250k miles on that oil with no engine problems. 

Now I have the cruze and my service department laughs every time I come in at 4 months or 4000 miles for my oil change because my olm is never below about 55%. 

Is synthetic oil better? Will it reliably go 7500+ miles between changes? Maybe. But the people telling me this are the same ones that make money off of my car coming into the service department. So although I do make sure the correct oil is put in for warranty purposes, I have it changed like I would any other. Just to be safe and protect my investment. 

Sent from my XT912 using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

titan2782 said:


> Sorry didn't mean to give the impression that the consumer had to do a break in. I meant for building motors. You are correct, there is no need for any consumer to perform this process.
> 
> I always used regular 10-30 and assembly lube on the cam, prime it really good and dump regular in the lifter valley. Done. But that was back in the days of flat tappet cams and lifters.


I used Rotella 30 weight when I used to run in an engine. It was low detergent, high zinc and really meant for air cooled engines, so it had very good thermal properties. 

Lacking rotella, I would buy EOS from gm, which is basically a zinc additive, and dump it in some other non detergent oil.

Now you can buy break-in oils...takes all chemistry out of it....just dump it in, run it up, and drop the oil.

As for synthetic vs semi synthetic....

You do not need full synthetic in your family hauler...it will be the difference in the engine failing at 300K miles vs 325K miles....both of which you will likely never see...the car will be traded long before that.

I have seen lots of engines that ran conventional oil with regular oil changes last well past 300K miles. 

Follow the owners manual and Save your money...


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

silverls said:


> There is quite a stir about oil these days and a big deal of it is around synthetics and synthetic blends. Conventional, non synthetic oil is thought of as crap because it is cheap. But let us not forget that cars ran for millions of miles on the stuff well before synthetics hit the market.
> 
> Until owning my Cruzes I never used anything but advanced auto parts brand 5w 30 conventional oil. Changed every 4 months or 4000 miles with a new oil filter. I had multiple vehicles see over 250k miles on that oil with no engine problems.
> 
> ...


If you read your owners manual, you may see that you can use conventional oil and change it every 3K miles. You may not need to use dexose. If your in every 4K anyway...just saying...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Mmm, sludge


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Using regular old dino oil in this car is a HORRIBLE idea!!!!!!!!!!!!! The turbo will COOK it in 5000 miles, and after a few changes of "regular ol' dino" oil the turbo will be TOAST and the engine will soon follow. The only way I'd ever run "dino" oil in my Cruze's 1.4T was if it was being changed every 2500-3000 miles, or if it had a sludge problem that needed cleaning up. 

We've already had a case where a guy toasted a 1.4T running "dino" engine oil for far too long. Another case over on BITOG just popped up with a VW 1.8T running dino oil far too long. 

GM specifies dexos1 oil for this engine for a very good reason. Namely, it'll murder a "dino" oil in short order. 

Clearly you folks haven't seen the used oil analyses of full synthetic oil posted up where the engine rips apart the full synthetic oil after 7500 miles. 

Change the oil when the OLM reaches 25% or every 7500 miles with full synthetic. Shorten that to 5000 miles if running a semi-synthetic dexos1 oil. $30-40 for a DIY synthetic oil change is much cheaper than $1200 for a new turbo and oil lines. 

Running "regular old dino" oil in the Cruze's 1.4T is another case of "penny wise, pound foolish". Saving $5-10 on an oil change is not worth ruining the turbo!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I cannot go into detail on this so don't ask me for clarification, but someone here did note that his 2013 Cruze went less miles on an oil change according to the OLM than his 2012 Cruze did...

My recommendation is exactly what sciphi said earlier unless you have sent your oil in to Blackstone Labs for testing and they specifically note that you are clear to run your oil longer.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I cannot go into detail on this so don't ask me for clarification, but someone here did note that his 2013 Cruze went less miles on an oil change according to the OLM than his 2012 Cruze did...
> 
> My recommendation is exactly what sciphi said earlier unless you have sent your oil in to Blackstone Labs for testing and they specifically note that you are clear to run your oil longer.


Not sure how that works unless they changed the OLM metrics in 2013. OLM is just an estimated calculation on oil life. He may have been heavy with the foot.


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## H3LLON3ARTH (Dec 16, 2011)

And I thought it also has to do with stop and go driving compared to highway driving I do mainly city and I always change mine at 7500 miles and the dic usually says 30% left

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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

sciphi said:


> Using regular old dino oil in this car is a HORRIBLE idea!!!!!!!!!!!!! The turbo will COOK it in 5000 miles, and after a few changes of "regular ol' dino" oil the turbo will be TOAST and the engine will soon follow. _*The only way I'd ever run "dino" oil in my Cruze's 1.4T was if it was being changed every 2500-3000 miles*_, or if it had a sludge problem that needed cleaning up.
> 
> We've already had a case where a guy toasted a 1.4T running "dino" engine oil for far too long. Another case over on BITOG just popped up with a VW 1.8T running dino oil far too long.
> *
> ...


Again...read the owners manual..it says exactly that.

and what about turbo engines that lasted for years before synthetic oils were ever popular or even available to the general public...bet thereaint too many Buick t-types that ran synthetic oil. That's the same engines as the GNX. Also chevy syclones and typhoons...they called for conventional oil. Not a whole lot of them blew up.

Besides that....if you follow the owners manual and your engine blows up, you bring it to the dealership and get a new engine. If you have over 100K on it than just keep doing what you were doing...


Now as for the second bold item...my '12 truck calls for dexose too....its a 5.3L...same as the one that was in my last two trucks... They took conventional oil...this one calls for dexose....the reason is fuel economy. Dexose 1 is a fuel economy standard.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

From my understanding, the OLM is a complex algorithm that takes into account engine RPM, run times, number of starts, engine load, and a bunch of other stuff to determine how long the recommended oil "should" be good for in a mechanically sound engine. 

For a DIY perspective, a jug of dino oil is $17-18. A jug of full synthetic is $25-30. One needs to be changed at 3000 miles in the 1.4T. The full synthetic can safely be left in for 7500 miles (as long as that corresponds to 25% on the OLM). For that 7500 miles, it's cheaper to run full synthetic than dino oil. 

It's a good reason to learn how to change oil, as oil change places pay much higher prices for full synthetics than a DIY'er does buying from a store due to a wacky pricing structure at the wholesale level, from what I've heard. That cost gets passed onto the oil change customer. So the local Jiffy Lube might well be paying $8-9 a quart for Mobil 1, and needs to recoup that cost somewhere.


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## beeztee (Oct 24, 2012)

As Sciphi already pointed out, VW 1.8 turbo motors are notorious for oil sludge problems when a good full synthetic isn't used. I doubt these engines are all that different. I would just spend the little bit extra for the piece of mind.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

beeztee said:


> As Sciphi already pointed out, VW 1.8 turbo motors are notorious for oil sludge problems when a good full synthetic isn't used. I doubt these engines are all that different. I would just spend the little bit extra for the piece of mind.


Saab Ecotecs too. 1.4T shares a lot of technology with that...I wouldn't take the chance.

Also, Jeep 3.7's and Toyota 3.0's. What is it with motors these days?


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

Again...you cant go wrong by following the manual.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Jordy927 said:


> Again...read the owners manual..it says exactly that.
> 
> and what about turbo engines that lasted for years before synthetic oils were ever popular or even available to the general public...bet thereaint too many Buick t-types that ran synthetic oil. That's the same engines as the GNX. Also chevy syclones and typhoons...they called for conventional oil. Not a whole lot of them blew up.
> 
> ...


Those older turbo cars also had very short oil change intervals to account for the relatively cruddy oils available back in the 80's. 

And, dexos1 is much more than fuel economy. It's also one of the most stringent specifications for turbocharger protection and sludge formation. From: SPIDER DIAGRAM










There are excellent reasons why I've gone on and on about using a full synthetic dexos1 oil. That spider chart sums up nicely where dexos1 goes above and beyond to meet the unique requirements of the 1.4T. 

The 5.3 in your truck is known to be super-easy on oil, so it'll gladly run any API SN/GF5 oil of the right viscosity. The 1.4T is known to be much harder on the oil.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Jordy927 said:


> Again...read the owners manual..it says exactly that.
> 
> and what about turbo engines that lasted for years before synthetic oils were ever popular or even available to the general public...bet thereaint too many Buick t-types that ran synthetic oil. That's the same engines as the GNX. Also chevy syclones and typhoons...they called for conventional oil. Not a whole lot of them blew up.
> 
> ...


This conversation has already been carried out a dozen times on this board, so I'll summarize it for you:

Use a Dexos1 certified oil. I don't know of any oil that is Dexo1 certified that isn't a synthetic blend. I know for a fact the factory fill is a synthetic blend, so based on that alone I would use nothing less. Oil testing analysis has shown that this oil is good for no more than 6,000 miles under "normal" driving conditions.

Full synthetic oil does not break down as easily and has enough detergents to extend the oil life. Depending on conditions, you can safely get 7,500-10,000 miles out of an oil change with full synthetic. Technology has changed, and Dexos1 oil is what is required for you to at least maintain your warranty. If you wish to use something else, you have every right to do so, but you must be very careful what you recommend that other people do without solid, concrete data. 

I would rather not have my engine blow up and deal with a dealership, and I plan on driving my car into the ground. Keep in mind that GM's recommendation is designed to meet their legal requirement of trouble-free operation for 100,000 miles or 5 years. Given the sensitivity that turbos have with different types of oil, it is best to play it safe and spend the extra few bucks on a full synthetic oil regardless of oil change interval to ensure trouble-free operation should you choose to keep your car for a long time. 

We have discussed oil change intervals and oil types in great length on this forum, and what you have heard in this thread has been the result of those conversations. Keep in mind that some very knowledgeable and experienced people have contributed to those discussions, and their analysis can be backed up with hard numbers and oil testing analysis reports.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Jordy927 said:


> Again...you cant go wrong by following the manual.


Tell that to my neighbor that blew up their BMW X5 with 15,000-mile oil changes, as recommended by BMW.

What about the 15,000 mile oil change? 

Mmm, nothing like a lot of sludge in the morning.

_*"The book" ain't always right.*_


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Tell that to my neighbor that blew up their BMW X5 with 15,000-mile oil changes, as recommended by BMW.
> 
> What about the 15,000 mile oil change?
> 
> Mmm, nothing like a lot of sludge in the morning.


Did GM ever fix the specification stating that the auto trans fluid capacity is 4 liters or 4.2 quarts, when in reality the transmission will drain 5.8 quarts and hold a total of 8.5 quarts?

I do not use my owner's manual as a source of reference. I keep it simply as a novelty in case I decide to sell the car.


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## Farmerboy (Sep 2, 2012)

I also thought the OLM used driving conditions to estimate oil life but on my recent 4000 mi trip to Maine the indicated life continued as before aiming for 10k mi. Didn't make any diff that 40% of it was continious running.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

sciphi said:


> Those older turbo cars also had very short oil change intervals to account for the relatively cruddy oils available back in the 80's.
> 
> And, dexos1 is much more than fuel economy. It's also one of the most stringent specifications for turbocharger protection and sludge formation. From: SPIDER DIAGRAM
> 
> ...


Most Synthetic oils meet the dexose 1 standards already...and have for a while.

Most wont even pay extra to be included on the dexose certified list. 


Also, being that its a GM requirement and on other vehicle requires more than GF5....If a v12 Bi-turbo from Mercedies is happy to run GF5, I think it would be fine in anything GM offers.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Farmerboy said:


> I also thought the OLM used driving conditions to estimate oil life but on my recent 4000 mi trip to Maine the indicated life continued as before aiming for 10k mi. Didn't make any diff that 40% of it was continious running.


That's much less harsh on the oil than continued stop-and-start driving or short trips where the engine doesn't get a chance to warm up.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> Tell that to my neighbor that blew up their BMW X5 with 15,000-mile oil changes, as recommended by BMW.
> 
> What about the 15,000 mile oil change?
> 
> ...


And a few guys posting on an auto blog are.

Don't believe what works for 95% of people with cars on the road and following it...

They dont put this stuff in a manual cause its not right. You think BMW wants you to come get a new engine under warranty?

They love tossing you a $30K engine for free.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Jordy927 said:


> If you read your owners manual, you'll see that you can use conventional oil and change it every 3K miles. You don't need to use dexose. If your in every 4K anyway...just saying...


Page number please. I just checked my PDF for the 2012 Cruze and cannot find this. The manual is very clear on using Dexos-1 approved or equivalent or you risk voiding your warranty. Pages 10-10 to 10-11 and again on page 11-12.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Jordy927 said:


> And a few guys posting on an auto blog are.
> 
> Don't believe what works for 95% of people with cars on the road and following it...
> 
> ...


They set it up to die right after the warranty's up. So you'll come buy a new one.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

obermd said:


> Page number please. I just checked my PDF for the 2012 Cruze and cannot find this. The manual is very clear on using Dexos-1 approved or equivalent or you risk voiding your warranty. Pages 10-10 to 10-11 and again on page 11-12.



Dont have the manual a the moment....my crappy cruze in in the shop again....

Either way...it says that if you cannot find dexose oil, conventional will suffice but to change it at 5K km(3000 Mi).

I have a 2011, so they may have changed it now that dexose oil is more available.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

Not going to bother reading all this, but you can change freely between regular and synthetic as long as there are no underlying problems. 

That said, you should absolutely use full synthetic in ANY turbo car, especially this one. I've seen my oil temps at 250 degrees one 35* nights. That's HOT and will cause rapid breakdown of conventional oils. In the summer i'm sure i'll see more than that.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> They set it up to die right after the warranty's up. So you'll come buy a new one.


All the more reason to buy a new car just before the warranty is up.


Or buy an old car and not have to worry about any of this.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Jordy927 said:


> Dont have the manual a the moment....my crappy cruze in in the shop again....
> 
> Either way...it says that if you cannot find dexose oil, conventional will suffice but to change it at 5K km(3000 Mi).
> 
> I have a 2011, so they may have changed it now that dexose oil is more available.


I just downloaded the 2011 owner's manual and it does indeed say 

Use of Substitute Engine Oils if
dexos is unavailable: In the event
that dexos‐approved engine oil is
not available at an oil change or for
maintaining proper oil level, you
may use substitute engine oil
displaying the API Starburst symbol
and of SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade.
Use of oils that do not meet the
dexos specification, however, may
result in reduced performance under
certain circumstances.

This is immediately after the warning on the same page (10-11)

Notice: Use only engine oil
that is approved to the dexos
specification or an equivalent
engine oil of the appropriate
viscosity grade. Engine oils
approved to the dexos
specification will show the
dexos symbol on the container.
Failure to use the recommended
engine oil or equivalent can
result in engine damage not
covered by the vehicle warranty.
If you are unsure whether the
oil is approved to the dexos
specification, ask your service
provider.

Basically - you'll screw yourself over on the warranty unless you can show that Dexos 1 wasn't available.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Jordy927 said:


> Most Synthetic oils meet the dexose 1 standards already...and have for a while.
> 
> Most wont even pay extra to be included on the dexose certified list.
> 
> ...


GF5 also covers "dino" oils. One can be running a GF5 oil and still be using the wrong stuff. The dexos1 requirement is for at least a semi-syn oil to meet that specification. I feel a full synthetic oil is better suited to the 1.4T than a semi-syn. 

GF5 is a good starting point. GM and Mercedes have their own specifications that meet/exceed GF5 in some areas since they make engines that need additional protection past GF5 requirements. MB's 229.xx oil specifications are an example of that. 

GF5 is a good starting point these days. It's not the be-all/end-all specification.

I guess you're in Canada. There are plenty of oils that meet dexos1 up there. Some are from Petro Canada. And, Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w-30 that can go 7500 miles is $7 a quart at Crappy Tire instead of the MotoMaster dino at $4.50 a quart. Skip a donut or two from Tim's to pay for the difference. It's still cheaper than a new turbo.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Jordy927 said:


> Most Synthetic oils meet the dexose 1 standards already...and have for a while.
> 
> Most wont even pay extra to be included on the dexose certified list.
> 
> ...


You can think what you want, but the official recommendation agreed upon by the CruzeTalk staff is to use a Dexos1 approved oil. You can speculate as to why GM recommends it all you want, but that will not change the fact that if your engine fails as a result of inferior oil, your warranty will be voided and you'll be stuck with the bill. As such, please be mindful of what you recommend that others do until you have some *hard evidence* to support your case. I don't care what Mercedes uses in their cars; the Cruze calls for Dexos1 certified oil, and the hard evidence we have from oil testing analysis taken from oil samples used in the Cruze supports a very strong case for the use of a Dexos1-approved full synthetic oil. 



Jordy927 said:


> All the more reason to buy a new car just before the warranty is up.
> 
> 
> Or buy an old car and not have to worry about any of this.


This is just silly. We can't go around recommending that people use crap oil just because they won't keep the car past the warranty period. You need to consider that many people intend to keep their car past the 100k mile mark, and heck, even if I sold it by 100k, I'd feel like a total ass if I knowingly did not maintain it properly before selling it to someone else who will be buying a massive headache. That's not something I want on my conscience.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Around here, cost me 5-7 bucks more to change my oil using synthetic over conventional motor oils. And that is paying retail prices and paying even extra for the oil in plastic throwaway bottles.

But yet my dealer want 40 bucks extra to use synthetic over conventional oils and purchases it in returnable 55 gallon drums. Ha, always questing the container they use to transport the oil, found one kid using an anti-freeze spout container to pour oil into my car. Won't repeat what I told him.

Since I have changed both conventional and synthetic oils for years, either pours just as quick, so really can't say it takes extra labor to change synthetic. So why do dealers charge about 35 bucks more to use synthetic?


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> You can think what you want, but the official recommendation agreed upon by the CruzeTalk staff is to use a Dexos1 approved oil. You can speculate as to why GM recommends it all you want, but that will not change the fact that if your engine fails as a result of inferior oil, your warranty will be voided and you'll be stuck with the bill. As such, please be mindful of what you recommend that others do until you have some *hard evidence* to support your case. I don't care what Mercedes uses in their cars; the Cruze calls for Dexos1 certified oil, and the hard evidence we have from oil testing analysis taken from oil samples used in the Cruze supports a very strong case for the use of a Dexos1-approved full synthetic oil.
> 
> 
> 
> This is just silly. We can't go around recommending that people use crap oil just because they won't keep the car past the warranty period. You need to consider that many people intend to keep their car past the 100k mile mark, and heck, even if I sold it by 100k, I'd feel like a total ass if I knowingly did not maintain it properly before selling it to someone else who will be buying a massive headache. That's not something I want on my conscience.


Not saying use crap oil...I'm saying follow the owners manual.
Millions do and have no issues...Think that hard enough evidence for me.

And mobil 1 is a GF-5 oil too.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

No reason to use non dexos oil or even go to a shady chain or local oil change business. Most dealers charge $29.99 for a dexos oil change all the time. 

The Dexos synthetic blend is more than good for that price, especially since you don't have to get your hands dirty. If you can't trust the dealer to change the oil properly think you should find a new dealer. 

Which one is better, changing a dexos blend at 4,000 miles or running 8,000 miles on a full synthetic? I would suspect the longer change interval would lead to more wear on the engine over time. Thats not even considering an oil leak or burning oil, going 8,000 miles or more one might run a bit low if you don't ever check.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

spacedout said:


> No reason to use non dexos oil or even go to a shady chain or local oil change business. Most dealers charge $29.99 for a dexos oil change all the time.
> 
> The Dexos synthetic blend is more than good for that price, especially since you don't have to get your hands dirty. If you can't trust the dealer to change the oil properly think you should find a new dealer.
> 
> Which one is better, changing a dexos blend at 4,000 miles or running 8,000 miles on a full synthetic? I would suspect the longer change interval would lead to more wear on the engine over time. Thats not even considering an oil leak or burning oil, going 8,000 miles or more one might run a bit low if you don't ever check.


Try 76 bucks


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

sciphi said:


> GF5 also covers "dino" oils. One can be running a GF5 oil and still be using the wrong stuff. The dexos1 requirement is for at least a semi-syn oil to meet that specification. I feel a full synthetic oil is better suited to the 1.4T than a semi-syn.
> 
> GF5 is a good starting point. GM and Mercedes have their own specifications that meet/exceed GF5 in some areas since they make engines that need additional protection past GF5 requirements. MB's 229.xx oil specifications are an example of that.
> 
> ...


Oh i just bring it to the dealership...I'm not laying in my driveway in the winter to change my oil...they put in what ever they put in and I pay them...and they wash the car and top up the fluids...


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

Jordy927 said:


> Try 76 bucks


$80 around here is full synthetic mobil 1 dealer price, dexos is $29.99 on the long going deal price. Check at a different dealer, they don't all have the same pricing it seems.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

spacedout said:


> $80 around here is full synthetic mobil 1 dealer price, dexos is $29.99 on the long going deal price. Check at a different dealer, they don't all have the same pricing it seems.


Canada bro...
96.95 bones for full synthetic
75.95 for dexose semi
54.95 for conventional


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## silverls (Nov 12, 2011)

silverls said:


> There is quite a stir about oil these days and a big deal of it is around synthetics and synthetic blends. Conventional, non synthetic oil is thought of as crap because it is cheap. But let us not forget that cars ran for millions of miles on the stuff well before synthetics hit the market.
> 
> Until owning my Cruzes I never used anything but advanced auto parts brand 5w 30 conventional oil. Changed every 4 months or 4000 miles with a new oil filter. I had multiple vehicles see over 250k miles on that oil with no engine problems.
> 
> ...


I want to be clear. Do not misinterpret. I am not saying to use conventional oil in the Cruze. Nor do I plan to as least for 7 years or 100,000 miles. (Warranty lol)

I am simply saying two things:

1. There is nothing wrong with conventional oil. It has done its job well for over 50 years.

2. I will continue to follow the 4000 mile/ 4 month rule. (3 month or 3000 mile as it may have been taught to some of you.) Even using the factory synthetic blend oil and getting changes done at the dealership. 

Reason? I'm not stupid (not to say anyone is). I made a huge investment in this car and plan to drive it for 10 to 15 years. They can talk big game all they want at GM and oil companies about how my oil will last longer and I am wasting money. But when it comes down to it, I do not trust them. And I am not about to be the guy whose motor blows at 100k miles because in all reality the oil should have been changed more frequently. 

To each their own. 

Sent from my XT912 using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Jordy927 said:


> Not saying use crap oil...I'm saying follow the owners manual.
> Millions do and have no issues...Think that hard enough evidence for me.
> 
> And mobil 1 is a GF-5 oil too.


It's not hard evidence; it's anecdotal evidence, and those millions contribute greatly to the reason why turbo engines are generally considered unreliable and high maintenance. I don't care to be part of that statistic.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It's not hard evidence; it's anecdotal evidence, and those millions contribute greatly to the reason why turbo engines are generally considered unreliable and high maintenance. I don't care to be part of that statistic.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using AutoGuide App


So your right and the 3 or so billion drivers in the world that follow they're owners manual are wrong...as are every engineer that comes up with the oil change interval and oil requirements for vehicles...I see....
Guess GM should have you on staff instead of they're entire engineering department...

Come on buddy....you cannot be serious.

Changing your oil more often than recommended and using oil that's above the recommended standard...that's not high maintenance at all...

*What your stating is high maintenance...and if you don't do this high maintenance your car will be fail...sounds pretty unreliable.*

Its nota race car...or pushing 30 pounds of boost...I would expect this powertrain to last 275-300 K by doing regular maintenance. Just like anny other turbo car...the mazda speed 3, mini cooper s, ford probe, Subaru anything, saabs, volvos....the list goes on.


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## Hoon (Mar 18, 2012)

This is the dumbest argument i've seen in awhile. Some people clearly do not understand the finicky oil requirements of high-rpm journal bearing turbos, thrust bearings (turbo, not engine), and what 250* oil temps in the winter will do to conventional oil over long duration. 

Put whatever you want in your car, IDGAF, but don't defend it unless you have empirical data.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/32-c...34-weekend-project-motor-swap-1974-bmw-2.html

See the pictures of the two engines there, and then tell me synthetic don't make a difference.

Now, consider that there are other parts that get MUCH hotter than that little 4-cylinder in the BMW in the Cruze or any other turbocharged car. 

If the Cruze has an oil cooler and is STILL running oil at 250F, that tells you how hard that little motor really works.

Also:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/syntheticoilandturbochargers.htm


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hoon said:


> This is the dumbest argument i've seen in awhile. Some people clearly do not understand the finicky oil requirements of high-rpm journal bearing turbos, thrust bearings (turbo, not engine), and what 250* oil temps in the winter will do to conventional oil over long duration.
> 
> Put whatever you want in your car, IDGAF, but don't defend it unless you have empirical data.


I know what it does...I've ran Turbos on many cars for many years...That's why I ran turbo timers.

I also never said to run conventional oil for long durations.

Never replaced a turbo due to it being worn out...car usually wore out first.

Also I dont see the point. In the end...a new turbo is only 450 bucks...so to spend 25 bucks more an oil change and do it 3-4 times a year vice the 2 I do now with factory recommended oil, all to save 450 bucks seems a bit redundant...

"I didn't cook my turbo and I've had the car for 10 years....but I did spend 1000 bucks more on oil changes so I didn't cook my 450 dollar turbo."

Of course...who says it would have cooked anyway...I still have no proof from anyone that the turbo will grenade if you just follow your owners manual
Start showing me cruze turbos stacked up behind your local dealership like cord wood and I'll consider switching.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/32-c...34-weekend-project-motor-swap-1974-bmw-2.html
> 
> See the pictures of the two engines there, and then tell me synthetic don't make a difference.
> 
> ...


Of course a high detergent oil makes a difference on the cleanliness of an engines internals...that doesn't take convincing.

Having said that...I have pulled apart many engines with 300K on them that were nearly as clean and still had crosshatching on the cylinder walls...they used conventional oil
A can of trans fluid used at the 500km mark before an oil change now and than does the same thing...reason...ATF is very high in detergents.

If you don't believe me, go to Stacy David's, Gearz website...he actually lists it as a quick tip..page 6.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

ATF has almost zero detergents because it is not exposed to air and does not need to clean up after dirty hydrocarbons finish exploding. The myth (and it is a myth) of ATF being "high detergent" is because it was thinner at approximately a 20 weight oil than the 40 weight engine oils in vogue in the 1960's and 1970's. It went more places because it could be slung further by the engine oil pump, not because it was "high detergent". AT's don't need cleaning agents in the ATF because they're as close to a sealed environment as there can be on a passenger car. 

For the average Cruze driver, spending a little more on dexos1 oil (preferably a full synthetic) is MUCH cheaper than a turbo replacement at the dealer or their indy mechanic who has to order the turbo from the dealer. If you're a good DIY'er with the tools/time to replace a turbo on this car (exhaust manifold bolts and most engine bolts are external Torx, good luck finding a buddy who has an e-Torx socket at 11 PM when yours disappears), it might be a wash. Even then, changing oil is still easier than replacing the turbo.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

sciphi said:


> ATF has almost zero detergents because it is not exposed to air and does not need to clean up after dirty hydrocarbons finish exploding. The myth (and it is a myth) of ATF being "high detergent" is because it was thinner at approximately a 20 weight oil than the 40 weight engine oils in vogue in the 1960's and 1970's. It went more places because it could be slung further by the engine oil pump, not because it was "high detergent". AT's don't need cleaning agents in the ATF because they're as close to a sealed environment as there can be on a passenger car.
> 
> For the average Cruze driver, spending a little more on dexos1 oil (preferably a full synthetic) is MUCH cheaper than a turbo replacement at the dealer or their indy mechanic who has to order the turbo from the dealer. If you're a good DIY'er with the tools/time to replace a turbo on this car (exhaust manifold bolts and most engine bolts are external Torx, good luck finding a buddy who has an e-Torx socket at 11 PM when yours disappears), it might be a wash. Even then, changing oil is still easier than replacing the turbo.


Actually, ATFs additive pack is made up of anti-wear additives, rust and corrosion inhibitors, detergents, dispersants and surfactants, viscosity modifiers, and friction modifiers.

Detergents dispersants and surfactants are used to clean. There may not be combustion going on in there, but there sure is a tone of heat and friction materials floating around.


I'm not debating the ease of changing a turbo VS oil...I just don't think that following your owners manual WRT regular maintenance will result in a damaged turbo. You'll do more damage just pulling in your driveway and turning the car off without letting the turbo spool down. Then it doesn't matter what Oil your using...it will flash off the bearings in seconds and your turbo is exceeding 100K rpm with no lubrication. I'm sure there are Cruzes out there with well over 100K miles on them...I cannot find anything on google relating to any massive turbo issues...and the Cruze has been around since 08. I'm also sure everyone isn't making up they're own maintenance scheduled. Haven't seen any TSB's on turbo failure. 


You guys think a turbo is much more delicate than it really is...Diesel turbos last for half a million miles in most cases...

As for e-Torx...yes I have a set....and so does my tool box where I work...as well as the car club I belong to.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

Actually, Dexron-III (as well as many other conventional ATFs) is a high detergent ATF. It used to be recommended to run a quart of it through your engine for 50-75 miles before oil change. If it wasn't so oily itself, you could wash your hands in it. Ever see the inside of a automatic valve body?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission_fluid


> Modern ATF typically contains a wide variety of chemical compounds intended to provide the required properties of a particular ATF specification. Most ATFs contain some combination of additives that improve lubricating qualities,[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] such as anti-wear additives, rust and corrosion inhibitors, *detergents*, *dispersants *and surfactants (which protect and clean metal surfaces);


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

titan2782 said:


> Actually, Dexron-III (as well as many other conventional ATFs) is a high detergent ATF. It used to be recommended to run a quart of it through your engine for 50-75 miles before oil change. If it wasn't so oily itself, you could wash your hands in it. Ever see the inside of a automatic valve body?
> 
> 
> Automatic transmission fluid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I got that same explanation of ATF during a lecture about hydraulic fluids. LOL...sometimes Wikipedia is right too...LOL.

I just quoted what was written in my fluid power book.


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## titan2782 (Nov 4, 2011)

Jordy927 said:


> I got that same explanation of ATF during a lecture about hydraulic fluids. LOL...sometimes Wikipedia is right too...LOL.
> 
> I just quoted what was written in my fluid power book.


Actually I learned this from a very smart man who was a pioneer in the performance automatic industry when I worked for his company from 2001-2004. But I provided a quote from Wikipedia just for reference.


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## Jordy927 (Jan 4, 2013)

titan2782 said:


> Actually I learned this from a very smart man who was a pioneer in the performance automatic industry when I worked for his company from 2001-2004. But I provided a quote from Wikipedia just for reference.


not saying you learned it from Wiki....I was just commenting on wikipedia being right. Wow


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

Jabbo said:


> I've been told that once you switch to a synthetic oil that there is no going back to a regular oil. don't know how true that is but it puts me in a bind since I bought my '12 Cruze used. I don't see that I have any choice but to use a synthetic for my first oil change.


I've heard the same thing, but then had it described to me as to why you wouldn't want to switch, NOT that you couldn't... and it was explained to me this way: Synthetic oil has molecules that are basically all the same size (pretend it's 10 microns just for explanation sake) and when your engine gets used to running on that oil and metal parts "seat" and get broken in on synthetic oil, switching to "regular" oil will sometimes cause the appearance of using oil because the molecules are not all the same size (let's pretend a 6 to 14 micron range). So, the smaller molecules of oil can seep past areas where the 10 micron molecules or larger would not. 

It's got nothing to do with damaging your engine, as long as you've got enough oil in the crankcase and you perform regular maintenance and oil changes, you should be fine. I would say that there are more advantages to full synthetic or even synthetic blend oils though. Lots of threads on this topic here and other sites as well.


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

sciphi said:


> Those older turbo cars also had very short oil change intervals to account for the relatively cruddy oils available back in the 80's.
> 
> And, dexos1 is much more than fuel economy. It's also one of the most stringent specifications for turbocharger protection and sludge formation. From: SPIDER DIAGRAM
> 
> ...


I'm curious as to where that spider diagram came from? Was it an independent lab, or was it a GM produced spider chart?


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Cruse oil cap only says to use, "SAE 5W-30 Oil" says nothing about about using doxos, that is buried deep in that 500 page owners manual. If you don't, you are voiding your warranty.

In a similar fashion, Cessna did not have a label on the seat adjustment, "Do not adjust while you are in Flight". But is in the flight manual. Since the family got a good attorney, kids were killed, sympathetic jury, Cessna was sued for 7 million bucks for not having that label. Its a crazy world.

So with the Cruze, could try the same thing by not using doxos oil, especially if your engine seizes, causes an accident, have kids in the car that were killed. Getting a good attorney and a sympathetic jury. Won't have your family anymore, but may have 7 million bucks. 

How come Chevy didn't put use only doxos on the oil cap?


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

I would like to point everyone to the Magnuson-Moss act again ... and the fact that a manufacturer CANNOT legally void your factory warranty by requiring you to use their product (i.e. dexos) in their vehicle. If you so choose to use another oil in this case, you can, and IF there is a failure, the manufacturer has to prove that the oil you used is what actually caused the failure in order to void, or should I say, not stand behind their warranty (or at least that's how I read the legislation).


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

ATF has a different additive package for the requirements of a AT. It does not have a motor oil detergency package, which is what I was implying. It has no need of one since it's not motor oil, and was never meant to be used in an internal combustion engine. 

For the oil, it's easy to tell if the right oil was used. Is the turbo toast and is the engine sludged? Use a full synthetic dexos1 oil at the correct oil change interval and it won't be. 

Those of you saying to use other oils are jeopardizing warranty coverage if something goes wrong. Most of us value that coverage. If you don't, I hope you have the coin enough to self-insure against calamity.

This is starting to degenerate into a flame war, so it's closing time.


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