# What diesel fuel is the best?



## alan (Sep 11, 2018)

I'm a new owner of a 2018 LT diesel looking for information about this fairly unique vehicle. I was told by the dealer that the only reason it exists is that GM needs to get their fleet MPG up to sell more Suburbans and SUV gas guzzlers. Have been using Meijer 'premium diesel' for the 1st 7,000 miles, the dealer tells me that the oil came out of the crankcase very black compared with the gas vehicles he usually sees on the 1st oil change, so he has me coming back for the 2nd change in 5,000 miles at 12k. Up until now only used Meijer gas since it did not have the up to 20% biodiesel blue sticker on the pump which limits it to 5% or less biodiesel content. Now I have switched to Hyvee (no 20% biodiesel sticker on pump) and adding Standyne diesel fuel additive with each tank. I see there is a Fast Stop that is diesel Top Tier rated however it is a 90 minute drive so that is not an option. I'm leaning on the advice that biodiesel gets though the piston rings and ends up mixed with the oil causing engine problems long term.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Any diesel engine will blacken its engine oil in very short order......nature of the beasts and causes no harm.

Rob


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Whoever did your oil change has demonstrated ignorance regarding Diesel engines. All diesels blacken their oil within 50 miles. 

Top Tier diesel would be best. 

Meijer premium and Shell V-power being second best. 

In 76,000 miles I’ve never used, nor needed, any diesel additives.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

^^^^ THIS x 2

Unlike gas powered vehicles...Diesel = Black Oil, it’s that simple. 

Don’t waste your money on additives. Your new diesel will live a long happy life if you stay on top of fuel filter and oil change intervals.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

We've almost always run Meijer diesel for the past few years. Ours doesn't have any kind of Biodiesel sticker.

Only time we ever added something was when it gelled entirely, being -16 ambient (plus wind), and that was just Diesel-911, and only once.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I have never used biodiesel or any additives in my car. I do not trust biodiesel.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

MOTO13 said:


> I have never used biodiesel or any additives in my car. I do not trust biodiesel.


Bio is what's sold in the summer. Most stations don't have stickers on the pumps anymore stating such. Just like they don't say #1 or #2 blend anymore. 

Bio gells at 45F. That's when kerosene blends come out for winter.

Bio also burns cleaner and provides better fuel economy.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

In 9 weeks of ownership,including a 1050 mile drive home from the dealer,I've used Chevron once-just to use their card for the 1st time,and Shell ever since. Still not sold on the idea that we get a summer and winter blend in SW Florida. But good to hear references NOT to use additives. We don't have Meijer.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

karmatourer said:


> In 9 weeks of ownership,including a 1050 mile drive home from the dealer,I've used Chevron once-just to use their card for the 1st time,and Shell ever since. Still not sold on the idea that we get a summer and winter blend in SW Florida. But good to hear references NOT to use additives. We don't have Meijer.


There has to be a winter blend.

Think of all the semis that fuel up and head north. 200 gallons at a time. 1200 miled6at leaat.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

Tomko said:


> Whoever did your oil change has demonstrated ignorance regarding Diesel engines. All diesels blacken their oil within 50 miles.
> 
> Top Tier diesel would be best.
> 
> ...


Did Top Tier recently come out with diesel ratings? 2 months ago their website said before year end they would have diesels ratings for diesel. I'll go take a look.
update---https://www.toptiergas.com/top-tier-diesel-fuel
Website offers no help for diesel users,besides,"*Diesel:* Since retailers may also sell non-additized diesel fuel or diesel not meeting the TOP TIER™ requirements, always check the dispenser for TOP TIER™ Diesel Fuel." after months of waiting.
Disappointing since I've always liked the site.
​​


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> There has to be a winter blend.
> 
> Think of all the semis that fuel up and head north. 200 gallons at a time. 1200 miled6at leaat.


Good point-I never thought of that.


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## MOTO13 (Mar 26, 2014)

snowwy66 said:


> Bio is what's sold in the summer. Most stations don't have stickers on the pumps anymore stating such. Just like they don't say #1 or #2 blend anymore.
> 
> Bio gells at 45F. That's when kerosene blends come out for winter.
> 
> Bio also burns cleaner and provides better fuel economy.


Where I buy, at KT or at my local station, it specifically states bio-diesel and it is about .05/gal less. I avoid it. I use regular diesel.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

MOTO13 said:


> snowwy66 said:
> 
> 
> > Bio is what's sold in the summer. Most stations don't have stickers on the pumps anymore stating such. Just like they don't say #1 or #2 blend anymore.
> ...


I burn through 120 gallons a day. Only 1 place I fuel at has stickers. The others don't. They all sell bio.

Semis burn over 100 gallons a day. Bio doesn't effect the semis. Why would it bother cars?

I get 500 miles per tank on summer bio.
I get 420 miles per tank on winter kerosene.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

MOTO13 said:


> Where I buy, at KT or at my local station, it specifically states bio-diesel and it is about .05/gal less. I avoid it. I use regular diesel.


Yep, ours all say #2 Diesel. When we were in IL (Batavia area), the pumps stated B20 Biodiesel, and we didn't have any option to get non-BD. It didn't seem to have any effect on fuel economy.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

alan said:


> I'm a new owner of a 2018 LT diesel looking for information about this fairly unique vehicle. I was told by the dealer that the only reason it exists is that GM needs to get their fleet MPG up to sell more Suburbans and SUV gas guzzlers. Have been using Meijer 'premium diesel' for the 1st 7,000 miles, the dealer tells me that the oil came out of the crankcase very black compared with the gas vehicles he usually sees on the 1st oil change, so he has me coming back for the 2nd change in 5,000 miles at 12k. Up until now only used Meijer gas since it did not have the up to 20% biodiesel blue sticker on the pump which limits it to 5% or less biodiesel content. Now I have switched to Hyvee (no 20% biodiesel sticker on pump) and adding Standyne diesel fuel additive with each tank. I see there is a Fast Stop that is diesel Top Tier rated however it is a 90 minute drive so that is not an option. I'm leaning on the advice that biodiesel gets though the piston rings and ends up mixed with the oil causing engine problems long term.


Welcome Aboard!:welcome:

Moved to Gen1 Diesel General Discussion


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> Welcome Aboard!:welcome:
> 
> Moved to Gen1 Diesel General Discussion


But he owns a Gen 2.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I would not worry about meijer fuel, they sell a lot of fuel and a major station in upper Midwest. I would change dealers, they just stepped in by making such an ignorant comment. ANYONE that has been around a diesel knows the oil is coal Black almost immediately. I learned that with my first diesel car in the 1980s when I was in college.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I run 2014 Gen 1 CTD (stock) and over the course of about 65k miles I have exclusively used Meijer premium diesel, except for 4 occasions. DIC best MPG right now is 25 miles- 64mpg, 50 miles - 59mpg, 500 miles - 45mpg

Meijer premium diesel advertising says it improves MPG (up to 5%), anti-gel anti-ice seasonal protection, improved fuel lubricity, and cleans fuel injectors. The fuel is almost always $3.29/gallon.

I park outside and have no problems starting in the winter with this fuel. This past winter we had a couple -10 and -20 nights. I give the key one or two turns to prime/glow the system before cranking, but it always starts right up. Remote start works great during cold weather too. I'm not sure if the Meijer seasonal protection is helping but at least it makes me feel like it is.

Three tanks I ran Mobil Diesel Efficient did not notice a change in MPG, so that probably performs similarly. 1 tank I used Speedway because I had a giftcard. I only got 38.5 MPG that tank but I had bikes on a rack most of the tank during a long trip.

@*alan* , regarding the black oil, that just means it's doing its job. Used oil that doesn't contain contaminants (the black stuff) means it's leaving the contaminants in the engine. The entire point of oil (other than lubricating) is to bind to the contaminants so that when you change the oil you are removing them from the system.








(IMG ripped from bmwcca.org)


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

karmatourer said:


> But he owns a Gen 2.


Oops
Moved to Gen II _Diesel General Discussion_


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

karmatourer said:


> Still not sold on the idea that we get a summer and winter blend in SW Florida.


Winter blend fuel is a makeup of two components:
1. Refined fuel that is changed over to have a lower cloud point during the winter months. Crude oil is refined into diesel with less wax in it than during summer months.
2. Winter additives. This is how most of the low temperature properties of diesel fuel is achieved.

Every refinery supplying fuel does at least a little bit of work to make diesel fuel with a lower cloud point during winter months. This is so the fuel can be piped and shipped all over the USA to cope with shortages in regions as needed. But when the fuel is loaded into trucks for shipment to individual fuel stations ("off the racks") is when the fuel additives are mixed in as called for in the bill of sale. The buyers spec what they want and the fuel is mixed with additives as it's loaded onto the truck. The additive package is what can make most diesel fuel good down to about -30 degrees, maybe a little lower. Anything lower than that and you live in far northern states that are blending some #1 diesel into the fuel to get the CFPP even lower, down to about -40 for the coldest states (think Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, etc.).

The fuel you are buying in Florida during "winter" has *SOME* winter properties. It's refined to have a lower cloud point and when delivered to retail stations it's probably hit and miss to find them adding winter additives. The large truck stations that offer a winter fuel program (I think Love's does that) guarantee their fuel is capable for use in any weather, so I'm sure the high volume stations are putting additives into the fuel they are selling to semi trucks. That, and the truckers better know to add their own winter additives if they are really worried about it. Drive a truck 1,200 miles north from Florida and you damned well better either: A) fill the tanks with winter fuel as soon as you reach your destination, or B) put some winter additives in the tank to be sure.


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## karmatourer (Jul 6, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Winter blend fuel is a makeup of two components:
> 1. Refined fuel that is changed over to have a lower cloud point during the winter months. Crude oil is refined into diesel with less wax in it than during summer months.
> 2. Winter additives. This is how most of the low temperature properties of diesel fuel is achieved.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining so much of what goes on behind the scenes.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

karmatourer said:


> Thanks for explaining so much of what goes on behind the scenes.


The winter fuel stuff was explained to me by the director of fuel sales at a good-sized fuel distributor in Central Illinois. They have a Pacific Pride (franchised brand) fuel station that sells 11% biodiesel fuel blends. That's common in some places in Illinois because through the end of 2018 the state gives a full rebate of motor fuel sales tax to any biodiesel blend greater than 10% (meaning 11% is the common blend because I guess it's done in full percentage increments). Their fuel is advertised as about a 47-48 cetane index with soy-based biodiesel and a winter additive package when necessary. The sales director briefly explained to me the petroleum base stock is refined based on the season so it has a lower cloud point in the winter. Then, when their fuel is loaded off the rack, it's mixed with [insert name of some cold flow additive that I can't remember] during the winter months to bring the CFPP down to about -30. Even with the 11% biodiesel blend there are basically zero fuel gelling issues during the coldest winter months because the Pacific Pride station has a lot of fleet customers who can't and wouldn't put up with that. The same fuel blend is being delivered in bulk to their customers who have their own fueling operations and there is basically no one around that ever has gelling issues.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

IndyDiesel said:


> I would change dealers, they just stepped in by making such an ignorant comment. ANYONE that has been around a diesel knows the oil is coal Black almost immediately. I learned that with my first diesel car in the 1980s when I was in college.


Any chance the guy draining the oil is the lowest tech in the pecking order?
In Michigan, we issue trainee licenses to guys who haven't passed the mechanic licensing exams yet. If there's a trainee in the shop, I bet he's airing tires, draining oil and changing filters. 
He'll learn as he goes along, or he'll go out the door (I hope).


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

California and Texas have state mandates which are above the federal minimum cetane for diesel #2. CA is 53 and Texas is 48. Generally these two states have the highest quality fuel and is additized at the pump.

Most HV truck stops use lower quality fuels and here in CA most sell B20 blends. It is actually cheaper to buy cheap truck stop fuels and additize them yourself as opposed to buying any “premium” diesel.

Diesel additives 101:

Nearly all diesel additives have the same basic ingredients. 2-EHN and aromatic hydrocarbons like trimethylbenzenes. If it is a winter formula, it will have some additional light distillates and solvents to prevent gelling. Naptha is a common anti-gel.

2-EHN boosts cetane. The aromatics are combustion catalysts, dispersants and also add lubricity. Naptha and light distillates lower the gel point.

If you live in a moderate climate, don't use a winter formula. You'll end of paying for solvents in the formula which aren't necessary and will dilute the "good stuff". 

Disregard all the brand specific advertising and buy a strong formulation. You can look at the product SDS to determine how concentrated the ingredients are. A higher concentration equals a more effective product, lower treat ratio and more value for your money.

Buying small bottles of any additive are expensive. You are better off buying in bulk and measuring it yourself at the pump.

I'm using this blend Amalgamated TDR-FL, it is very concentrated. I buy it in bulk directly from the manufacturer. Add 10 mL per gallon of fuel. I have a 200 mL beaker to accurately measure it in @ each fill up. This is also the only additive that has ever given me any real MPG increase.

If purchased in bulk, TDR-FL is an additional $0.10/gal to treat diesel @ 400:1.

There are also metallic based additives, ferric or ferrous picrate comes to mind. Been around since the '40s. Supposedly works well but I haven't tried it yet. https://www.fpc1.com


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

I tried to buy from truck stops or fleet stations the most. That way I'm getting the freshest fuel, smaller stations typically dont go through it as much and it can stagnate for awhile. 

I had this issue early on in ownership of my '17 sedan. I picked up a full tank from a Marathon in town that was $0.13 cheaper per gallon then everyone else (including walmart). Halfway through that tank I had shuddering issues climbing the hill on the main drag in town. Around 45-50 the car would shake and not take throttle unless I flat footed it. After that tank of fuel was ran and I filled up at the truck stop the problem went away and I've never had it happen since. I've chalked it up to water or contamination in the tanks. Which is weird because that station hadnt been renovated that long before and I'm pretty sure they put new tanks in before they opened it.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

GM’s advice on diesel fuel additives: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--SKyVbN9DJMnVrdnNkeWdmZ1E/preview?pli=1


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Tomko said:


> GM’s advice on diesel fuel additives:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--SKyVbN9DJMnVrdnNkeWdmZ1E/preview?pli=1



Four years ago, and not the engine in current cars.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Barry Allen said:


> Four years ago, and not the engine in current cars.


Here you go:

https://gm.oemdtc.com/4682/03-06-04...let-and-gmc-light-duty-and-medium-duty-trucks


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Tomko said:


> Here you go:
> 
> https://gm.oemdtc.com/4682/03-06-04...let-and-gmc-light-duty-and-medium-duty-trucks


There is nothing to be lost by using a fuel additive that adds lubricity to ULSD. 

Cetane boosters are questionable because engines are designed to use 40 cetane fuel, and it's hard to find anything lower than about 45 cetane even if the pump label is the federal minimum of 40. 

Still, it's about $1 per tank of fuel for some long-term preventative maintenance (lubricity additives) and you usually get some injector cleaner in the mix as well. There is a reason that Cummins now recommends PS Diesel Kleen. I'll take Cummins' recommendation over GM any day given that the bulk of Cummins's business is diesel engines. GM has them as an afterthought, except for their pickups where the engines are almost mandatory in the HD models.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Objective third-party testing:

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Tomko said:


> Objective third-party testing:
> 
> Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums


That study is almost 12 years old. its not relevant data any longer. I'm sure most of those tested have changed their formulations since then. For better or for worse...



Barry Allen said:


> There is nothing to be lost by using a fuel additive that adds lubricity to ULSD.
> 
> Cetane boosters are questionable because engines are designed to use 40 cetane fuel, and it's hard to find anything lower than about 45 cetane even if the pump label is the federal minimum of 40.
> 
> Still, it's about $1 per tank of fuel for some long-term preventative maintenance (lubricity additives) and you usually get some injector cleaner in the mix as well. There is a reason that Cummins now recommends PS Diesel Kleen. I'll take Cummins' recommendation over GM any day given that the bulk of Cummins's business is diesel engines. GM has them as an afterthought, except for their pickups where the engines are almost mandatory in the HD models.


I don't know how true that is. I've seen reports of some very poor quality D#2 barely meeting the federal standard being sold at truck stops in the midwest. 

Chevron was also busted by CARB for selling D#2 that did not meet CA minimum standards about 10 yrs ago. Oil companies do dishonest stuff sometimes, it happens.

Cetane values of 50-55 improve combustion efficiency, reduce cylinder pressures, and generate less soot. All these benefits mean more power, better MPGs and makes it easier for your emissions system to do it's job. That is why some states have set their own minimum standards (Like CA and TX) in an effort to improve air quality. 



Tomko said:


> Here you go:
> 
> https://gm.oemdtc.com/4682/03-06-04...let-and-gmc-light-duty-and-medium-duty-trucks


There is good advice in here. I forgot to mention the difference between emulsification vs demulsification. *DO NOT USE* and fuel additive that claims to emulsify water. Or says something like "allows water to pass harmlessly...". This can damage your HPCR injection pump and cause it to fragment into metal shards contaminating your whole fuel system. This is a very expensive repair! Water is a contaminant and should be removed in the filter assembly by *de*mulsification.

I wonder who makes the GM diesel fuel additive? VW used to package stanadyne PF in fancy OEM dealer bottles for their TDI's. GM may be doing something similar.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

ive yet to hear of an operation require its operators to use additives.

for the fleets doin 3yr leases, sure no brainer not to use them, but i can rattle off a dozen companies locally that keep the trucks forever, around 1000 units, none of them using additives.


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## Jellyfrosh (Aug 30, 2018)

Using plain old Diesel #2 (or diesel #1 if you're driving in the cold) should work fine, just make sure it's from a high volume station. Diesel condensates water over time if it sits, so if a gas station selling diesel doesn't sell much, you might be getting some water in your fuel.


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## renaissanceman (Feb 23, 2017)

If you're in CA, check out Propel Diesel HPR. Great stuff.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

renaissanceman said:


> If you're in CA, check out Propel Diesel HPR. Great stuff.


I wish this were a fuel available nationwide.


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