# Why not use 2.2



## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...ANSWER: the customer _belief_ that *smaller-is-better* for _"...better fuel economy..."_

_..._'tain't always so.


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## lre107 (Nov 4, 2010)

It is also emissions. The 1.4L is a newer engine that is much cleaner than the 2.2L, and 2.4L engines. I can't think of the legislation, but there is new standards that cars have to meet and the 1.4L meets them, and the 2.2L does not (from the info I have anyways).


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## racer114 (Nov 7, 2010)

I've owned both. My Cobalt was a 2010 2.2L w/5spd manual. The Cruze (1.4 turbo/auto) feels more powerful and you can definately feel the torque. I know the 2.2 has more power on paper, but it sure didn't seem that way. Gas mileage is very similar, with the Cruze getting better mileage early on in life. The Cobalt took 6 months and 4000 miles to start getting max mileage.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

racer114 said:


> The Cobalt took 6 months and 4000 miles to start getting max mileage.


...people also forget that the new **tires** need to "break-in" too, which also affect initial milage. This is because tires have _highest_ rolling resistance (CRR) when new and _least_ rolling resistance when almost bald...hence, the typical "big drop" in mpg when replacing old, worn-out, tires with brand new ones. It affect initial milage too, but not quite so dramatically.


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## ckcruze (Apr 3, 2012)

Also is the global issue, as a global model the 2.2 engine is too expensive with the regulations (taxwise) of EU and other markets. Also as of fuel economy the bigger and heavier engine tends to have higher Co2 and bigger consumption (at least in standardised tests and law targets) where as in real life the outcome might be comparable the efficiency target of the manufacturers are based on the standards. Last but not least is the weight issue as bigger is usually heavier and thus penalises fuel efficiency.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

racer114 said:


> I've owned both. My Cobalt was a 2010 2.2L w/5spd manual. The Cruze (1.4 turbo/auto) feels more powerful and you can definately feel the torque. I know the 2.2 has more power on paper, but it sure didn't seem that way.


Completely agree, I went from a 2004 cavalier 2.2 ecotec 4speed auto to a 2012 cruze 1ltRS, the 1.4T has much more usable power. The 2004 engine had 140hp & 150lb-ft torque. Problem is its torque peak was at 4000rpm, meaning in the hilly area I live you would need to be screaming the engine to maintain speed uphill. MPG seems about the same in real world.


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## Boost (Aug 13, 2011)

Wow I can really relate to this topic, I personally own both of these right now and have been wondering about it a lot. I actually just posted this minutes ago: 
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-1-4l-turbo/6165-auto-trans-lt-z-owners-poor-fuel-economy.html

I will also say that the 2.2 "F" motor stock in my auto 4 door Saturn absolutely flies and will blow the doors off a stock Cruze. They are built well, I have been inside of them. With a tune the 1.4 is faster. Mileage is the same! I just pulled a 29.8 MPG tank with the 2.2 on 87 octane going 90 mph to work. The torque is absolutely amazing, I don't care about the RPM, between 2-4k it pulls HARD and then revs high and keeps pulling. I have some inside info on these as I have worked for GM for years and they built them for racing and ALL Ecotecs are awesome.

Reality: they had to make them smaller to please the government and the enviro-freaks and compete with all the high tech green stuff. Tiny engines are very popular in Europe, and Opel and others are involved in some of this technology. That being said, they really did the best they could, the 2.2 with a turbo is an 11 second car, the 1.4t can't even get in the 14s, but is an outstanding well built power-plant and combo, another thing I have learned while being GM's rape bitch technician is the 1.4t is built for boost and you will never blow it up.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

Boost said:


> the 2.2 with a turbo in a full drag car with a built motor is an 11 second car


Fixed. Sorry a Cobalt or Cavalier isn't going to do 11s just from sticking a turbo on it and upping the power. Even if you got 300+ horsepower out of one, you can't get it to the ground with a street car with FWD. I looked at a 1/4 mile thread on Coballt SS Network and the lowest time in the thread was 12.84. Now I'm sure there are faster cars than those listed out there but that was with a non-stock turbo and other power adders. I googled 11 second Cavalier and the first hit I found was, surprise, a drag car.


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

Beaker said:


> Fixed. Sorry a Cobalt or Cavalier isn't going to do 11s just from sticking a turbo on it and upping the power. Even if you got 300+ horsepower out of one, you can't get it to the ground with a street car with FWD. I looked at a 1/4 mile thread on Coballt SS Network and the lowest time in the thread was 12.84. Now I'm sure there are faster cars than those listed out there but that was with a non-stock turbo and other power adders. I googled 11 second Cavalier and the first hit I found was, surprise, a drag car.


I know of a few 11 second Cavaliers, actual street cars too. If you want to talk full drag cars, Roush Racing has built full drag Cavaliers and Cobalts that run 7's using 2.0L Ecotec motors.


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## Beaker (Mar 21, 2012)

And is all they did was stick a turbo on?

I know of 8 and 9 second 04-06 GTOs that can be driven on the street. But you wouldn't do it every day because it would be impractical. A buddy's GTO here in town is capable of high 10s. But it doesn't just have a turbo or supercharger on a stock motor.


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## Skilz10179 (Mar 22, 2011)

I know of only one Cavalier that went 11's on a stock block and it was a 2.4 LD9 not a Ecotec, the rest had built motors.


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## Patman (May 7, 2011)

IMO the 2.2 engine is like the 250 straight 6 in the Novas in the 70s or the 231 V6 . Yea it has good power and will run forever, but efficiency wise, not so great. I had 3 car with the 2.2 and while they will run forever, the last one that I still own in my wife's Malibu will run for ever but crappy gas mileage and the power makes me feel sorry to get back in my 1.8 Cruze(but it is an auto). None of my 2.2s topped 25 in the city on MPG but with the 5 speed, plenty of power. The Cruzes are designed with higher geared 6 speeds that give the feeling of loss of power for fuel efficiency.


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## Boost (Aug 13, 2011)

I am getting almost 30 mpg overall with the 2.2. I suspect it is lighter than a Cruze, though the sticker says 3600 lbs gross. Sorry if I wasn't being detailed enough about the drag Cobalt, yeah it will never hook up but they run high 11s on a stock engine. Mine runs high 10s in the 1/8 bone stock including tires, and that's what stock V8 Silverados are running on that track.

Here is a download link for a complete older Ecotec racing book GM where they admit that all Ecotecs are total beasts:

GMTunerSource.com - ECOtec Build Book - Sport Compact Build Book

I was there in late 90s early 2000s drag racing around the country with a friend's Mazda when GM was giving a lady named Lisa 1 million dollars a year budget to experiment with the Ecotec motor. I met her and her father at an event, I think the car was putting out 800 hp at 30 psi boost and running 8.0s, dominating the class. It was in FWD automatic trans., in a Saturn body.


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## smorey78 (Apr 8, 2012)

I have worked on the 7sec ecotec cobalt. We had a big race ate Maple Grove in Pa and our shop was the host shop. We had to switch out one the cylinder head before the next series of races! its been 4 years but from what i remember the car was running about 42psi of boost and besides all the turbo work and race stuff that head looked just like my 09 sitting in the driveway now! and befor all that i owned a z-24 street built and running 125 shot of n20...never could hook up well but ran a 12.6...i know its not an 11 but i was getting there! i think stock was 17.2


Skilz10179 said:


> I know of a few 11 second Cavaliers, actual street cars too. If you want to talk full drag cars, Roush Racing has built full drag Cavaliers and Cobalts that run 7's using 2.0L Ecotec motors.


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## OnlyTaurus (Mar 20, 2012)

70AARCUDA said:


> _..._'tain't.


:lol:


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