# New to me Cruze. Trying to keep my emissions installed. But losing hope.



## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

HI guys, new to the forum and diesel cruze. I just bought the2014 Cruze last week. I bought it non running with 86k miles for $3500. I diagnosed a crank no start condition as a clogged egr. Which I believe was indeed the problem. The person I bought it from did not know how to google though and he/his mechanic just started replacing parts. He only drove the car for 1 month before breakdown and eventually selling to me. I found almost every part of the car had tool markings on it. HP fuel pump had been replaced etc etc.

After many hours of diagnosing I discovered the HP fuel pump looked new and checked timing. which turned out to be at least 4 teeth off on the cam. I bought a new timing belt and the car started right up. I got codes for cylinder 4 injector. So bought a used injector. Now it's running great.

After about 60 miles of driving I have these codes P049d, P046c, P0406, P20EE
3 of these codes are EGR. ---> I have a new EGR on the way.
1 is NOx related (I believe)

Today during a drive I got a message in the DIC "Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor" with a countdown to 65mph limit.

I'm trying my best here to salvage the Emissions system on this car. But not really sure where to go from here. I ordered the OBDLink MX+ adapter and will purchase the Torque Pro app. For the regen and monitoring capabilities.

Does anyone have suggestions for what my next move should be? I don't want to just keep dumping parts on this car at $200 per part. I did look in the def tank and the fluid is crystal clear and smells like ammonia


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

It sound like you got lucky. The 2.0TD is an interference engine. The timing being off could have been BAD.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

JLL said:


> It sound like you got lucky. The 2.0TD is an interference engine. The timing being off could have been BAD.


Yeah, it seems to run perfectly happy. I'm trying to take it on short trips close to home until I build up trust in it. I have 140 round trip for work. I guess it's gonna sit until I get this death clock to stop counting. I don't think it took any damage from the timing being off. 

I found on Amazon a "used" nox downstream sensor. It's a prime item and I read the description it says box is damaged. May have cosmetic damage. I ordered it. It was $45 down from $225. So I put that in as I've seen several posts about that sensor in particular.


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

Take a look at your vacuum hoses and check out how much vacuum you are making. If your Vacuum pump is leaking a little oil, it will ruin some of the vacuum hoses. All of the EGR solenoids are vacuum operated and if you have a leak you will start to throw EGR codes. Once you throw certain codes, it won't go through a DPF regen. That will cause codes like EGR Cooler Plugged, etc. Also, check-out AllDataDIY for troubleshooting. It doesn't cost much and is much cheaper than trying to buy factory service manuals. Also...check and clean your throttle body and EGR Valve. Diesel EGR makes a mess of slimy carbon deposits!


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

ehjorten said:


> Take a look at your vacuum hoses and check out how much vacuum you are making. If your Vacuum pump is leaking a little oil, it will ruin some of the vacuum hoses. All of the EGR solenoids are vacuum operated and if you have a leak you will start to throw EGR codes. Once you throw certain codes, it won't go through a DPF regen. That will cause codes like EGR Cooler Plugged, etc. Also, check-out AllDataDIY for troubleshooting. It doesn't cost much and is much cheaper than trying to buy factory service manuals. Also...check and clean your throttle body and EGR Valve. Diesel EGR makes a mess of slimy carbon deposits!


I've been messing with the car for a few hours now. I sprayed the engine down with starting fluid to check for leaks. Seems there's no external vacuum leaks. I did however notice while doing that the egr was not plugged in. And there was about 1qt to much oil in it. I plugged in egr, drained 1qt oil cleared the codes and drove for about 40 miles. No engine lights returned. But the countdown is still going. I've got 29 miles to 65mph limit now


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## Detrious (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm pretty sure you aren't gonna find a vacuum leak by using ether, the vacuum is created with an external pump so even if there was a leak and it did suck up the ether it doesn't end up in the manifold. It sounds like you might've found your issue though.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Detrious said:


> I'm pretty sure you aren't gonna find a vacuum leak by using ether, the vacuum is created with an external pump so even if there was a leak and it did suck up the ether it doesn't end up in the manifold. It sounds like you might've found your issue though.


Well, I didn't know that. 
I drove it again today. I got an egr excessive flow code. So I'm gonna change the egr tomorrow with the new one that I had ordered. Was gonna change it tonight but the torx bolt stripped out. I cut a chunk off an Allen wrench and stuck in in there with jb weld for the night. 
Down to 10 miles until 65mph limit now.. getting nervous to keep driving it


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Well, I got the obd hooked it up, ran a service regen with no results. I drove it a few miles and watched the NOX levels. Sensor 1 reads about 200 normally but did range from -10 when stopping up to 1200 when accelerating. sensor 2 was usually lower than sensor 1. was usually between 100 and 350. It did not change as much. I have no active DTC's. I do have 1 History dtc of p20ee. but it is not current, and the light is off.

What next? Google search is telling me a p20ee is NOx bank 1? Should I change the front sensor? Does anyone know what the readings should be on these sensors??


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> Well, I got the obd hooked it up, ran a service regen with no results. I drove it a few miles and watched the NOX levels. Sensor 1 reads about 200 normally but did range from -10 when stopping up to 1200 when accelerating. sensor 2 was usually lower than sensor 1. was usually between 100 and 350. It did not change as much. I have no active DTC's. I do have 1 History dtc of p20ee. but it is not current, and the light is off.
> 
> What next? Google search is telling me a p20ee is NOx bank 1? Should I change the front sensor? Does anyone know what the readings should be on these sensors??


Gretio is the newer version of that app.








Gretio - Automotive Scan Tool - Apps on Google Play


The missing pocket scan tool for GM Vehicles.




play.google.com





The DEF Fluid Quality test is important. Basically does the driving to see if a SCR issue clear or not.... While stationary.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> Gretio is the newer version of that app.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well it feels good to see your name in my thread. I've been trying to read every thread that you're involved in. As those threads generally have a resolution.

Gretio is the app I used for the service regen. I purchased torque pro, but not Biscan. I bought a subscription to Gretio instead. I will run a Def Fluid Quality check tonight when I get home and update with results.

This far I have changed the egr for a new GM part. Drained 1.5 qt excess oil, and drained and refilled def. Which seems to have cleared all codes current, pending, and permanent. The only code that remains is the p20ee, which is a permanent code. Gretio does not detect the code I only find it with my old code reader. The engine light is currently off and has been for a few days now.
I believe the rear nox sensor has already been replaced. I pulled it out and it looks brand new, not 1 spec of soot, the retaining nut looks brand new, there is no dust on the wiring or module. And the top nut on the module is missing.

Should I change it again? Should I change the front sensor?

Does Gretio notify you of a command being completed? Like the manual regen never said regen complete. I just assumed it was when the car came back down to 800 rpm


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

Here is some information about P20EE:

DTC P20EE

NOx Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold
Circuit/System Description
The selective catalytic reduction (SCR) system reduces oxides of nitrogen (NOx) emissions by injecting a metered amount of diesel exhaust fluid or reductant into the exhaust gas stream entering the SCR. Within the selective catalytic reduction catalyst, the reductant reacts with the NOx to form nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and water vapor. Upstream and downstream NOx sensors provide the engine control module (ECM) with engine-out and tailpipe-out NOx levels.

The ECM uses the 2 NOx sensors to control exhaust NOx levels. The first NOx sensor is located at the outlet of the turbocharger and monitors the engine out NOx. The second NOx sensor is located at the outlet of the SCR that monitors NOx levels exiting the SCR. The ECM varies the amount of reductant added by varying the reductant injector duty cycle in response to changes in engine exhaust out NOx levels.

Conditions for Running the DTCs
P20EE

The BARO pressure is greater than 75 kPa (11 psi)
Ambient air and reductant temperatures are warmer than -7°C (+19°F).
Reductant tank is not in frozen tank status.
Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor 2 is between 215-350°C (419-662°F).
Emission reduction fluid tank level is above 33%.
Battery voltage is greater than 11 V for greater than 3 s.
Engine speed is greater than 600 RPM for at least 10 s.
NOx sensor 1 and NOx sensor 2 status is Active for greater than 40 s.
NOx 1 NOx Concentration is between 40-800 ppm.
A DPF regeneration is not active.
APP Senor 1 Position is greater than 5%.
The DTCs run once per drive cycle when the above conditions are met.
Conditions for Setting the DTC
The ECM has determined the catalyst efficiency has degraded below a calibrated threshold.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
P20EE and P2BAA

DTC P20EE and P2BAA are Type A DTCs.
The ECM commands the engine to operate in Reduced Engine Power mode.
The driver information center displays Engine Power Is Reduced message.
Diagnostic Aids

Using fuel other than ultra low sulfur content fuel will cause this DTC to set.
A quality message may be present on the driver information center (DIC) with or without DTCsP20EE.
A leak in the reductant system can be located by inspecting for a build-up of crystallized diesel exhaust fluid.
Water in the reductant tank will cause this DTC to set. Multiple Reductant Fluid Quality tests will be necessary to heal the system once the reductant is replaced with fresh reductant.
The NOx sensors cannot distinguish between NOx and liquid reductant. High NOx sensor 2 readings can be caused by reductant getting past the SCR catalyst. This can be the result of a degraded catalyst or a condition that causes excessive reductant on the SCR. After a DPF service regeneration, the SCR system is purged of excessive reductant. It is easier to evaluate if an SCR is compromised right after a service regeneration because it eliminates the extra reductant that the system was exposed to.
During a DPF service regeneration, the SCR is too hot to reduce NOx effectively. NOx sensor 1 and NOx sensor 2 values should be relatively similar. NOx sensor 2 can be up to 30% higher than NOx sensor 1 in some cases.
During a road test at operating temperature and highway speeds, the NOx sensor 2 should be 70% less than the NOx sensor 1 and transition in the same direction as the upstream sensor, but at a much lower magnitude. During a road test, you can collect transient data for NOx sensor 1 and NOx sensor 2. After a heavy acceleration followed by a tip out (zero pedal input), both sensors should go to zero while coasting down. If NOx sensor 2 does not go to zero shortly after NOx sensor 1, NOx sensor 2 is either faulty or the system is saturated with reductant. Performing this test during or shortly after a DPF regeneration prevents the system from being saturated with reductant.
It is recommended that the following parameters are recorded every 2 minutes during and after each Reductant Fluid Quality Test and DPF Service Regeneration for reference as they may become necessary:
NOx Sensor 1 NOx Concentration
NOx Sensor 2 NOx Concentration
EGT Sensor 1
EGT Sensor 2
EGT Sensor 3
The Circuit/System Verification process is quite extensive. You might want to consider an AllDataDIY account. Some of the tests require the GM Scan Tool to perform.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

ehjorten said:


> Here is some information about P20EE:
> 
> DTC P20EE
> 
> ...


You're right it looks like there is Wealth of information there. It's tough to keep dishing out more and more money on this thing. But it seems like it would be worth it. 

The test for the nox sensors seems good foot off and make sure both go to 0. I know the front sensor was going to -10 (not sure what to make of that) . Didn't notice anything on the rear though, I'll have to check that tonight. Also it says it may take several def fluid tests to "heal the code"


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> You're right it looks like there is Wealth of information there. It's tough to keep dishing out more and more money on this thing. But it seems like it would be worth it.
> 
> The test for the nox sensors seems good foot off and make sure both go to 0. I know the front sensor was going to -10 (not sure what to make of that) . Didn't notice anything on the rear though, I'll have to check that tonight. Also it says it may take several def fluid tests to "heal the code"


They probably want to do multiple runs because of that saturation issue also mentioned. Which is why I reccomend just always doing a service Regen before a quality test.

You can monitor “DPF Regen Status” or “Fluid Quality Status” PIDs. And those will switch to complete at some point. But the vehicle itself does not have any method of directly signaling when the procedure is done... Except the RPM drop of course,

Annoyingly the vehicle will sometimes notify us if it fails while in progress. And the app will notify you of this on the bottom of the screen. But don’t count on it.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> They probably want to do multiple runs because of that saturation issue also mentioned. Which is why I reccomend just always doing a service Regen before a quality test.
> 
> You can monitor “DPF Regen Status” or “Fluid Quality Status” PIDs. And those will switch to complete at some point. But the vehicle itself does not have any method of directly signaling when the procedure is done... Except the RPM drop of course,
> 
> Annoyingly the vehicle will sometimes notify us if it fails while in progress. And the app will notify you of this on the bottom of the screen. But don’t count on it.


Well here comes a dumb question. But I'm not sure exactly what "pids" are. I thought that was vehicle specific guages.


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

Parameter IDs. These are the unique Hexadecimal codes used to request data from the ECM. Torque Pro and Greido are programmed with certain ones already to allow you to read Boost, EGT1, EGT2, EGT3, etc.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Well I've got some news. I did the quality test. It started with the NOx 2 not reading. After about 3 minutes the NOx 2 started to read Initially it was way over NOx 1. It started to creep it's way down to about 40% of NOx 1. The test ran about 20-30 minutes and it hit idle. I checked the car and the message was gone. I changed coats hopped in the car and hit the road. I Made it about 20 miles and the message was back. I have no engine lights on, and while checking with the old scanner even the p20ee code permanent is gone too. While driving I noticed that the NOx 2 did not want to go below 40. Even when NOx 1 was reading 10 NOx 2 was up at 40, and may get down to 20 after some time. When cruising both would rise and eventually NOx 2 would fall to around 50% of NOx 1. I performed the throttle test that was posted earlier, heavy accel ---> 0 throttle. NOx1 would fall to 0 or -10 and NOx 2 would fall off to about 40. It would never fall to 0. So I believe that is definitive that NOx 2 readings are the culprit. Which means it's either NOx 2 sensor, the CAT/NOx filter, or the NOx sprayer is over spraying. But given the NOx 2 known issue I will start there, and purchase a new NOx 2. 

Problem #2 When coming to a complete stop and then taking off again the car was like neutral dropping. Free rev then it would bang into gear. Not sure what's up with that??

I would like to thank you guys for posting the helpful info, and thanks to snipesy for the apps. Really appreciate it.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> Well I've got some news. I did the quality test. It started with the NOx 2 not reading. After about 3 minutes the NOx 2 started to read Initially it was way over NOx 1. It started to creep it's way down to about 40% of NOx 1. The test ran about 20-30 minutes and it hit idle. I checked the car and the message was gone. I changed coats hopped in the car and hit the road. I Made it about 20 miles and the message was back. I have no engine lights on, and while checking with the old scanner even the p20ee code permanent is gone too. While driving I noticed that the NOx 2 did not want to go below 40. Even when NOx 1 was reading 10 NOx 2 was up at 40, and may get down to 20 after some time. When cruising both would rise and eventually NOx 2 would fall to around 50% of NOx 1. I performed the throttle test that was posted earlier, heavy accel ---> 0 throttle. NOx1 would fall to 0 or -10 and NOx 2 would fall off to about 40. It would never fall to 0. So I believe that is definitive that NOx 2 readings are the culprit. Which means it's either NOx 2 sensor, the CAT/NOx filter, or the NOx sprayer is over spraying. But given the NOx 2 known issue I will start there, and purchase a new NOx 2.
> 
> Problem #2 When coming to a complete stop and then taking off again the car was like neutral dropping. Free rev then it would bang into gear. Not sure what's up with that??
> 
> I would like to thank you guys for posting the helpful info, and thanks to snipesy for the apps. Really appreciate it.


Yeah I have had problems where the quality test passes and the issue comes back only during normal driving. This issues happens a lot at the dealership and leads to vehicles Coming back allllll the time.

A destroyed filter is... Unlikely, When it does happen it’s usually due to the ammonia eating away at the outside of the exhaust until a hole appears. If this happens it’s usually just a simaple weld to fix.

Maybe this NOx 2 from Amazon is dubious? But I have had very good luck with Amazon warehouse Items in the past so not sure. One time I scored a $12000 monitor for $600 because the box had a dent in it.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> Yeah I have had problems where the quality test passes and the issue comes back only during normal driving. This issues happens a lot at the dealership and leads to vehicles Coming back allllll the time.
> 
> A destroyed filter is... Unlikely, When it does happen it’s usually due to the ammonia eating away at the outside of the exhaust until a hole appears. If this happens it’s usually just a simaple weld to fix.
> 
> Maybe this NOx 2 from Amazon is dubious? But I have had very good luck with Amazon warehouse Items in the past so not sure. One time I scored a $12000 monitor for $600 because the box had a dent in it.


The NOx 2 from Amazon was indeed used. It was all dusty. So I didn't even bother, just sent it back today. Ordered a new one from Rock auto with expedited shipping. The one that's in there looked new to me. So I figured it was a better bet. I didn't see and holes in the filter. I will try to feel around up there when I do the new NOx sensor. And I'll start it and check for air leaks too. I'll update when the new one comes in


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> Problem #2 When coming to a complete stop and then taking off again the car was like neutral dropping. Free rev then it would bang into gear. Not sure what's up with that??


A known problem with this Aisin AF40-6 transmission. There are threads in the forum. It typically becomes more pronounced during warmer weather.

There are things you can do to help improve it. Such as multiple fluid flushes with a higher performance fluid, like Amsoil Signature Series. Or positioning the shifter in manual just as you‘re coming to a stop.

But the problem only truly goes away with the more expensive measures of replacing the valve body or the entire transmission itself. Drain and fills will only push the problem a little down the road.

I’ve studied this pretty extensively. To the best of my knowledge the issue is a solenoid that travels within a cylinder inside the valve body. The cylinder wall wears and the solenoid leaks, slowing its response. Thereby causing the delayed shift into gear from a stop at a traffic light. The leaking gets worse as ambient and transmission temperature increases.

GM only ever used this Aisin transmission in a few vehicles. They were all high powered applications that could not be met by the then existing GM 6T automatic transmissions - or did not fit one that could. This Aisin is physically small and rated for higher power.

For many years GM had no service parts available. It was unit replacement only. But in recent years a revised valve body has become available.

Through two summers, my dealership worked through TAC to attempt to resolve my transmission issues. First at 75K a fluid change and factory reset of the TCM. Second a change of the valve body. Third a replacement of the entire unit at 90K. As there were no rebuilds available, my unit replacement was a brand new, 2020 build, from Aisin in Japan.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Put the new NOx 2 in and drove it. At first it seemed promising. Then the NOx 2 just started climbing until it was double NOx 1. So came home did the test. It started out kinda of up and down. Then it finally leveled out. The test completed and then as soon as it was over. The NOx 2 just started sky rocketing again... it's this an injector sticking open?

I'm gonna drive it for a few miles and see if the light comes back.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Drove it about 10 miles numbers were insane on NOx 2 like 50% to 200% of #1. And NOx 2 would not go to 0. Pulled into my dad's house and engine light came on. I checked the code and p20ee. Leaving my dad's the numbers were instantly better 10-20%. About perfect if I had to guess. NOx 2 would go to 0 when coasting too. So I drove about 15 miles like that on country roads. 

Stopped turned car off and back on. Started driving numbers were crazy again. After about 5 miles fluid quality came back up. Shortly after the light the numbers went perfect again. Within 10 miles the the message went away country roads again. 

So... I cycled the engine again. And the numbers are insane again. They remained elevated. I stopped and ate some food in the car. Left it idling while I ate. After this the numbers made no more logical sense. NOx 2 was just off in its own world at this point. This drive was 28 miles. I stopped right in the middle. This was very mixed driving. 

The exhaust fluid light didn't come back on after it went off during part 2. Don't know how because the numbers were ridiculous. Engine light still on. 

So I'm thinking the def injector is sticking open a little. During highway it can clear out and the numbers normalize. But during mixed driving the fluid is building up in the system.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Def injector is ordered. Really not thinking that's it though. Whatever is causing the numbers to go askew is corrected when the engine light illuminates. Within a few miles of the light the numbers go where I think they should be.

I'm just gonna keep driving it as long as I can avoid the death clock. I think some miles on it will help. The battery just sat flat dead for 2 months, then I cranked the dog **** out of it for several days while spraying cans of ether down it's throat. When I finally figured out the problem and started it there was an injector stuck wide open, smoking the garage and my neighbors out. I am a heavy equipment operator and I have never seen more white diesel smoke than this car was producing. Then I drove it with 1.5 qts too much oil and the egr unplugged for 150 miles.

So I'll keep clearing the code and putting miles on her. Probably do a service Regen once a week. But I really think the miles will help clear out all the debris I just put into the exhaust. And that in turn will help me get to the bottom of this.

Until then I'm open to suggestions. The new def injector will be here early next week according to the tracking. The one that's in there now is original I believe


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Well I got code p0420, p20ee, and fluid quality poor. Cleared codes. Did dpf regen, ran quality test. Drove the car for 10 miles. Then 20, then 20. Then 70. And another 70. Finally lights came back on all 3. P0420 is catalytic converter code. I did find it can be triggered by too much oil. Which mine was 1.5qt over full. So could that have ruined the dpf?


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Put the new def injector in. Now I have codes. P20ee, p0420, p205b, and b2aaa.

Ran a Def Fluid test but after about 30 minutes gretio froze up and the test stopped. All lights still on.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

I finally gave up. I bought a flashscan 3 and flashed it with a new tune. This turned out a new clue in my hunt.

The NOx 1 reading on the new tune is around 500-600ppm cruising at 60mph. Previously the NOx1 reading at 60 was around 200ppm. Which would mean my car had to spray about 3x the amount of DEF to achieve the correct NOx reduction. Which connects a lot of dots for me. 
Examples: 1. the really long amount of time it took to achieve proper ratios. 
2. The bizarre #s I get during city driving which indicated that it was over spraying and soaking the SCR with liquid def.

I've looked for open recalls, but found none. I have had a sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind that the car was never updated with the new parameters for the updated sensor. The sensor is updated I did confirm that, part #. So if the new tune I just put on it updated the parameters then now all the sudden the sensor is reading the correct #s??

Can someone who has a good running car please tell me what your #'s are at full temp 60mph and full temp idle. Thanks


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> I finally gave up. I bought a flashscan 3 and flashed it with a new tune. This turned out a new clue in my hunt.
> 
> The NOx 1 reading on the new tune is around 500-600ppm cruising at 60mph. Previously the NOx1 reading at 60 was around 200ppm. Which would mean my car had to spray about 3x the amount of DEF to achieve the correct NOx reduction. Which connects a lot of dots for me.
> Examples: 1. the really long amount of time it took to achieve proper ratios.
> ...


I was always told the specific ppm numbers didnt matter so much. I do not believe the sensors are all that accurate they are more for comparing the NOx drop not necessarily the NOx concentration.

But we want NOx 2 to be about 80% 20% of NOx 1 under normal driving conditions. You may not always get that. Especially if its really cold and the engine is struggling to heat up the cat.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> I was always told the specific ppm numbers didnt matter so much. I do not believe the sensors are all that accurate they are more for comparing the NOx drop not necessarily the NOx concentration.
> 
> But we want NOx 2 to be about 80% of NOx 1 under normal driving conditions. You may not always get that. Especially if its really cold and the engine is struggling to heat up the cat.


It's really bad when NOx2 is reading 10x _higher than_ NOx1.  

But that's a different problem.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> I finally gave up. I bought a flashscan 3 and flashed it with a new tune. This turned out a new clue in my hunt.
> 
> The NOx 1 reading on the new tune is around 500-600ppm cruising at 60mph. Previously the NOx1 reading at 60 was around 200ppm. Which would mean my car had to spray about 3x the amount of DEF to achieve the correct NOx reduction. Which connects a lot of dots for me.
> Examples: 1. the really long amount of time it took to achieve proper ratios.
> ...


What is this flashscan 3 you speak of? Also, did you ever resolve the issue? I purchased a 2014 CTD with 180k on the clock. All was good for about a month then SHTF. I keep getting the p2002 code from time to time with the Def Quality warning popping up. When I get the warning I drive in manual mode in 1 gear lower on the interstate. Within 15 miles the warning goes away. After that I force a regen while driving and all warnings and check engine lights stay at bay for about 5 days. When I hit 400 miles after a regen or 10 grams of calculated soot mass, the def quality warning pops up. If i regen before the 400 miles, I wont see a warning. 

Components I have replaced. 
DEF heater
Def Module (to the right of the pump on the tank)
NOX 1
NOX 2
Def Fluid Injector
Both Gaskets on front and rear of SCR pipe
Glow Plugs
Air Filter
DPF differential pressure sensor
Wastegate Solenoid
Removed and Cleaned EGR Valve

I will also note that every component I changed was genuine. I have also read that this issue was related with a "software anomaly" and have the most current emissions updates in the ECM.


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

Pmotel85 said:


> What is this flashscan 3 you speak of? Also, did you ever resolve the issue? I purchased a 2014 CTD with 180k on the clock. All was good for about a month then SHTF. I keep getting the p2002 code from time to time with the Def Quality warning popping up. When I get the warning I drive in manual mode in 1 gear lower on the interstate. Within 15 miles the warning goes away. After that I force a regen while driving and all warnings and check engine lights stay at bay for about 5 days. When I hit 400 miles after a regen or 10 grams of calculated soot mass, the def quality warning pops up. If i regen before the 400 miles, I wont see a warning.
> 
> Components I have replaced.
> DEF heater
> ...


First verify that you don't have any other codes set.
If that is the case, then with the engine idling and at operating temperature, verify that there is very light or no black smoke visible at the tailpipe when performing several accelerator pedal sweeps by rapidly depressing the throttle pedal to WOT and back to rest. Let the engine rest about 5 seconds between sweeps.
If you get a lot of black smoke, then your DPF is likely defective.
If you don't get black smoke, then check for leaks in your exhaust system.
If you don't find any leaks or damaged components, then look for restrictions in the air intake, leaks in the intake ducts, a cracked or damaged MAF sensor housing, a faulty MAF sensor (skewed, stuck in range, or slow response), and also make sure the the MAF is clean of debris.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

ehjorten said:


> First verify that you don't have any other codes set.
> If that is the case, then with the engine idling and at operating temperature, verify that there is very light or no black smoke visible at the tailpipe when performing several accelerator pedal sweeps by rapidly depressing the throttle pedal to WOT and back to rest. Let the engine rest about 5 seconds between sweeps.
> If you get a lot of black smoke, then your DPF is likely defective.
> If you don't get black smoke, then check for leaks in your exhaust system.
> If you don't find any leaks or damaged components, then look for restrictions in the air intake, leaks in the intake ducts, a cracked or damaged MAF sensor housing, a faulty MAF sensor (skewed, stuck in range, or slow response), and also make sure the the MAF is clean of debris.



No smoke at all out of the tailpipe. I was considering using a fogger to find a leak in the exhaust because I cant see or hear any leaks. No other fault codes. The intake manifold was caked up with soot like all of them seem to be and I forgot to mention in the previous post that I did put a new MAP sensor in as well. The person I did buy the car off of had the Intake pipe crack and he neglected it for quite some time. I put a new one of those on as well. MAF was cleaned.


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

If you have checked all of that stuff and you make sure you don't have any intake or exhaust leaks, then the diagnostic troubleshooting tables would have you replace your DPF. Have you ever got a P24AE code? That would be related to the DPS (Diesel Particulate Sensor) towards the back of the exhaust behind the 3rd NOx sensor. Also...are you sure your MAF is functioning properly?


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

ehjorten said:


> If you have checked all of that stuff and you make sure you don't have any intake or exhaust leaks, then the diagnostic troubleshooting tables would have you replace your DPF. Have you ever got a P24AE code? That would be related to the DPS (Diesel Particulate Sensor) towards the back of the exhaust behind the 3rd NOx sensor. Also...are you sure your MAF is functioning properly?


I am working with a Snap On Solus Ultra, so I can monitor the MAF. I honestly have no clue what I am looking for, though. I have never experienced a P24AE code. The only leak a fogger indicated for the intake side was the intake pipe, which was replaced.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Pmotel85 said:


> I am working with a Snap On Solus Ultra, so I can monitor the MAF. I honestly have no clue what I am looking for, though. I have never experienced a P24AE code. The only leak a fogger indicated for the intake side was the intake pipe, which was replaced.


Yes after 15,000 miles I came to find that the scr was clogged and collapsing in on itself. I just found this last week. During the beginning the only symptom, other than a plethora of codes that came up, was low performance. Particularly low boost.At first it was just a little low 220 kpa max). But just before I found it I was struggling to reach 170 kpa. My egt were running around 500c cruising. 

The parts I changed were:
Map
Maf
Def injector
Egr
Nox 2
O2
Vacuum pump
Egt sensor 2
Turbo
Intake temp sensor
Accelerator pedal

Probably more. But this is all I can think of right now.

I did also have one more symptom which I didn't know was a symptom until I fixed it. The transmission was rough/ firm shifting both up and down. Now that it's fixed the shifting is actually on the mooshy side. 

Pull up your desired boost pressure and also your actual boost pressure. And see if it is making the correct amount of boost. If it's not then you may have a restriction in your exhaust. Such as a plugged dpf or a plugged scr. To check the the scr I took loose the 3 bolts at the bottom of the downpipe to let excess pressure out. Took about 5 minutes and the increase in boost was immediate. 

Now that it's fixed my egt are down around 330c
My coolant temp is down 20f
The trans shifts better
About 3 times the amount of torque
And I picked up 12mpg


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Also check your oil level. Apparently these can not be over filled or it will damage the dpf. Check your vacuum pump for oil and check all vacuum hoses.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> Yes after 15,000 miles I came to find that the scr was clogged and collapsing in on itself. I just found this last week. During the beginning the only symptom, other than a plethora of codes that came up, was low performance. Particularly low boost.At first it was just a little low 220 kpa max). But just before I found it I was struggling to reach 170 kpa. My egt were running around 500c cruising.
> 
> The parts I changed were:
> Map
> ...



So I have had the firm shifting since i bought the car. I changed the fluid and the shifting was a lot better. I monitored the MAF on my way into work today and that seemed fine. I did notice my EGT #2 would climb kind of high when first reaching operating temp (850 F). I have a new one, just didn't have time or a reason to put it on yet. It creeps down within 75 degrees of the other two. I run all highway so my EGT's are all around 600 to 650 F. I do know that my SCR is not plugged. I have averaged 43mpg the entire time I have had this issue. I am considering putting a new MAF and 02 sensor in, but will definitely look into the vacuum pump and lines.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Pmotel85 said:


> So I have had the firm shifting since i bought the car. I changed the fluid and the shifting was a lot better. I monitored the MAF on my way into work today and that seemed fine. I did notice my EGT #2 would climb kind of high when first reaching operating temp (850 F). I have a new one, just didn't have time or a reason to put it on yet. It creeps down within 75 degrees of the other two. I run all highway so my EGT's are all around 600 to 650 F. I do know that my SCR is not plugged. I have averaged 43mpg the entire time I have had this issue. I am considering putting a new MAF and 02 sensor in, but will definitely look into the vacuum pump and lines.


Well 43 on a highway tank seems on the low side. I was getting 41-43 mpg the entire time I had it (13k miles). The last 2 tanks prior to fixing it were 40 and 38mpg. I have put 2 tanks through it now that it's fixed 51mpg and 49 mpg.

How do you know that your scr is not clogged? 
Did you check your boost numbers? 
Did you crack the exhaust loose and check for a change in performance? 

I would find it unlikely, given the parts you have changed, that the problem is all the parts. Your treating the symptoms and not the actual problem. Which is what I did too until I found the scr. The good news is that once you do fix the core issue you can have peace of mind that these parts are all new lol

My car was slow, had low boost, had high egts. Now if I turn traction control off and punch it from a stop it'll smoke the tires. I have great power every where especially passing at highway speeds


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> Well 43 on a highway tank seems on the low side. I was getting 41-43 mpg the entire time I had it (13k miles). The last 2 tanks prior to fixing it were 40 and 38mpg. I have put 2 tanks through it now that it's fixed 51mpg and 49 mpg.
> 
> How do you know that your scr is not clogged?
> Did you check your boost numbers?
> ...



I had the SCR removed and cleaned. I just Forced a regen yesterday and all my nox readings were consistent. Boost readings were good. I'm not sure what is considered high for EGT. I have excellent power as well. What would the vacuum pump have to do with the performance? How does oil get into it and is there a seal I would change as well? I'm assuming I would change the solenoid as well?


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

The vacuum pump not only provides vacuum for the brake boost, but it also provides vacuum for the turbo wastegate vane control and EGR Cooler. If you are having troubles with the vacuum pump, you will likely set a bunch of different codes like P003A, P24A5, P2598 and/or P2599. The vacuum pump is bolted to the driver's side of the engine and it driven by the forward camshaft. There isn't much that is serviceable on the vacuum pump, but I imagine if the drive seal is bad, it will draw oil in from the top of the head. A replacement pump is about $70. If it is leaking you will see oil around the outside of the pump. That doesn't mean that the pump is not working properly. Mine is leaking a little and needs replacement. The oil will get on the vacuum hoses underneath the pump and swell those hoses up, causing them to eventually leak.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

ehjorten said:


> The vacuum pump not only provides vacuum for the brake boost, but it also provides vacuum for the turbo wastegate vane control and EGR Cooler. If you are having troubles with the vacuum pump, you will likely set a bunch of different codes like P003A, P24A5, P2598 and/or P2599. The vacuum pump is bolted to the driver's side of the engine and it driven by the forward camshaft. There isn't much that is serviceable on the vacuum pump, but I imagine if the drive seal is bad, it will draw oil in from the top of the head. A replacement pump is about $70. If it is leaking you will see oil around the outside of the pump. That doesn't mean that the pump is not working properly. Mine is leaking a little and needs replacement. The oil will get on the vacuum hoses underneath the pump and swell those hoses up, causing them to eventually leak.



Thank you, I have never gotten any of these codes. With 190k miles I change a lot of components as a precaution. I just need this thing to last me 3 years or 60k miles. I commute 400 miles/week and was tired of getting 15mpg in my Silverado!


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

I commute in mine daily at that level as well, and when I lost my vanpool due to the pandemic, commuting in my 11 mpg square-body truck was definitely NOT going to cut it! I have averaged 43 mpg overall with 126k on my 2014 diesel cruze and today driving to work the 50 mile average reading on the dash was 50 mpg.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

ehjorten said:


> I commute in mine daily at that level as well, and when I lost my vanpool due to the pandemic, commuting in my 11 mpg square-body truck was definitely NOT going to cut it! I have averaged 43 mpg overall with 126k on my 2014 diesel cruze and today driving to work the 50 mile average reading on the dash was 50 mpg.



I average 43mpg on every tank. when I use the car for short trips around town it really beats down the average. Watching the fuel economy on my way to and from work I can achieve 47 to 52 mpg if I really try. I just read on another thread about the EGR cooler causing the countdown when the bypass is hindered. Looks like ill be taking apart the vacuum pump this weekend to see whats going on.


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## ehjorten (Jan 7, 2021)

My initial issue with my Cruze was due to a bad vacuum line. It was swollen from the little bit of leaking oil off of the vacuum pump. I bought some vacuum hose and replaced the long one under the pump that goes to the EGR valve actuator and then another short one that goes to the EGR Cooler. It practically fell off of the EGR vacuum regulator solenoid because the hose was swollen up. This simple fix corrected a bunch of nagging codes that had me almost pulling my hair out! There is a Service Bulletin PI1260 that deals with the vacuum hoses.
One thing I found out was that if certain codes are set on your vehicle, it will not perform a regen. If you drive long enough without a regen, then it will start throwing other codes because of that.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Pmotel85 said:


> I average 43mpg on every tank. when I use the car for short trips around town it really beats down the average. Watching the fuel economy on my way to and from work I can achieve 47 to 52 mpg if I really try. I just read on another thread about the EGR cooler causing the countdown when the bypass is hindered. Looks like ill be taking apart the vacuum pump this weekend to see whats going on.


The only thing in there is a piece of flat steel with rubber on the ends. The oil leaks do cause the vacuum lines to swell. Trace them down to their sources. Check to see if they are connected tightly. 
Did you ever check your oil level? It's very important that it is not over filled. 

If you're not low on power then I would speculate its not an exhaust obstruction. Or a turbo issue. 455c does seem quite hot for your egt. I know the dpf is made to run hot though. So I'm not sure what is acceptable in there


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

Well, I checked the vacuum pump and lines, no oil. I monitored my EGT's on my way home from work yesterday. Sensor 1 stayed around 375° C, sensor 2 390° C, and sensor 3 360° C. I drive 40 miles 1 way M-F. Not really sure where to go from here. Thinking about addressing the blow by with a new separator or just installing a catch can.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Is that the only code you have p2002?

Alldata states. Check for black smoke by hard accelerations.

No smoke check for intake and exhaust leaks

No leaks check maf

Good maf? Change the dpf.

I was able to pressure test my intake system with about 5$ worth of parts from the hardware store. Was able to pump it to 40psi to listen for leaks


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

P2002 is the only code. I have no smoke at all. I'd like to get my hands on a fogger to check the intake and exhaust system for leaks. I dont see any soot trails anywhere along the exhaust system. I'm Considering using Liqui Moly's DPF cleaner and purge fluids on the DPF. On the way in this morning, all EGT's ran consistent under 375C. A couple of times NOX2 would creep a bit high. I would floor it and watch in my mirror assuming I'd smoke. NONE. NOX2 readings significantly lowered.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Could be a bad scr maybe... NOx 2 should be like 30% of NOx 1. What are your nox #s when cruising?

To pressure test. I used a pvc cap drilled a hole in it put a tire valve stem in it. Stuck it in a coupler and attached it to the turbo intake.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

I thought these levels were good. In warmer weather (90's) it was impossible to keep nox 2 low... I had poor def quality warnings all weekend. Just replaced the o2 sensor and the trans no longer shifts hard. I hope the ecm will learn the new o2 because I didn't have time to reset it. I also have a new MAF on the way.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Pmotel85 said:


> View attachment 294292
> View attachment 294293
> I thought these levels were good. In warmer weather (90's) it was impossible to keep nox 2 low... I had poor def quality warnings all weekend. Just replaced the o2 sensor and the trans no longer shifts hard. I hope the ecm will learn the new o2 because I didn't have time to reset it. I also have a new MAF on the way.


The NOx levels look fine assuming this is idle.

What does need to happen for a Quality warning to clear is the correct NOx levels during some very specific driving conditions. Or a fluid quality test. Which is why even if the NOx levels look okay you can still get the warning.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> The NOx levels look fine assuming this is idle.
> 
> What does need to happen for a Quality warning to clear is the correct NOx levels during some very specific driving conditions. Or a fluid quality test. Which is why even if the NOx levels look okay you can still get the warning.


Thus is cruising at 70mph on the interstate.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

What happens when you get off the highway? Does Nox2 go up higher? 

How was the scr cleaned? How did they inspect the element for physical damage? I mean it's behind about 4 foot of pipe was a camera put in there??


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

Sometimes it will climb higher, sometimes drop way lower.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

Pmotel85 said:


> A couple of times NOX2 would creep a bit high. I would floor it and watch in my mirror assuming I'd smoke. NONE. NOX2 readings significantly lowered.


This still makes me think scr is bad. The car will load up on def trying to get the numbers in line. After so much loading up the liquid def will then be cause of skewed NOX2 readings. Likely flooring it will clear out excess liquid def. I could be wrong. But someone cleaned it for some reason.. maybe @Snipesy would know more about how effective cleaning the scr is.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

I have the battery disconnected as we speak. I will also install the new maf and report how the car behaves next week.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Pmotel85 said:


> I have the battery disconnected as we speak. I will also install the new maf and report how the car behaves next week.


Given the history of your car I think your DOC is toast. This is the upper half of the DPF.

While I am very against replacing DPFs and SCRs one of the ways they can get destroyed is by over temperature. You mentioned the intake pipe was cracked. This causes under boost which then subsequently causes an over temperature of the DOC.

Said DPFs aren’t exactly easy to get anymore. So…… The only reason why a lot of parts are still around is because they are shared with the LML.


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## CamaroKidZ28 (Mar 26, 2021)

I think this is it here...Dpf


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

CamaroKidZ28 said:


> I think this is it here...Dpf


You'll order it and then itll get cancelled.


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## Pmotel85 (Sep 3, 2021)

Seriously!? Would purging the dpf help?


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