# rottela t6



## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Just to muddy the waters further, look for Mobil 3000....this is a Dexos 2 rated (claimed) fully synthetic product that may be easier for you to find.....this is the oil the dealer I hang out is using....essentially a better oil than the GM labelled procuct in theory.

Have used Rotella forever in piston powered light aircraft.....always has been the oul of choice and Shell advertises that fact.
The oil formulation changed for auto oils some years back....apparently much less phosphates and zinc.....the older car crowd soon found that all engines with flat tappet cams (as opposed to rollers) were grinding the lobes off the cams and grinding the hardened bottom of the lifter off.
The Rotella is diesel rated, there is a lot of flat tappet industrial diesel still in service and that oil eliminates the cam problem.
With that in mind, those running older flat tappet gas engines switched to Rotella and no one I know has had a recurrence of the cam problem.

I suspect Shell doesn't want to bother taking on the expense of a Dexos certification to get the label....I figure the oil would be acceptable.....but the labelling would be nice.

Rob


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

t6 is Not a low saps oil. Do not use it. If you removed all of your emissions equipment it would be ok. You do not need a dexos2 label on the bottle but it must be at least acea3 rated


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Worst oil you could put in a CTD. Even in gasoline engines, it has no place. Poor shear stability, poor volatility, and an unsuitable detergent package. That bandwagon needs to die. Don't use this oil in Any Cruze unless you want to be replacing expensive emissions control equipment.


----------



## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

Is a GM dealer far from you? The AC Delco dexos 2 here is only $5.80 a qt. Not a bad price and from what I have read not a bad oil. I will find out when I send in a sample later on this year when I get about 5k miles on the oil. Then I will see how well it is doing. Amazon is another option to order oil from if you live out in the sticks and driving to a local auto parts place it just not worth it.


----------



## SneakerFix (Jul 28, 2013)

I've been using T6 for sometime in a few different turbo cars. I like it better then the oil I was using before. 

What do you mean about replacing emissions related parts?


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Worst oil you could put in a CTD. Even in gasoline engines, it has no place. Poor shear stability, poor volatility, and an unsuitable detergent package. That bandwagon needs to die. Don't use this oil in Any Cruze unless you want to be replacing expensive emissions control equipment.


Putting down shell oil isn't very becoming in my opinion. I used t6 in an old mercedes diesel and it had over 250k miles and ran very well when I sold it. The only oil used in the car for the last 175k miles. I realize a 95 mercedes is different than a current Cruze with a turbo. i am on free oil changes so not sure what I plan to use after the next two changes for my 14 Cruze.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I work at Chevrolet so oil is no issues. I have had great success with t6 in my jeep and it has flat tappetes. My 1990 cbr1000 has 45,000 miles with rottela and no issues. I think shell does not want to pay the certificate fee, heck in the past they held out for many years to get the motorcycle oil certificate in rottela. On all my turbo cars t6 has been great but in the expensive turbo iv used castrol edge gold bottle but the oil doughnut on the back says gas not diesel


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I would Like to send a oil sample with the gm oil to see how it's doing.


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I second what KpaxFAQ said. You will have DPF and other emissions issues by not using a low SAPS oil.


----------



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

pandrad - let me get this right: 1) you work for Chevrolet; 2) you drive a jeep and a Honda; and, 3) you are contemplating using a non dexos2 oil in a GM engine that requires it?


----------



## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> I would Like to send a oil sample with the gm oil to see how it's doing.


Basically you have three main choices to send the sample to. 
1. Tests / Price List2. Oil Testing Lab - Oil Analysis Kit - Oil Analyzers INC.
3. DysonAnalysis


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Indyeco6spd said:


> Putting down shell oil isn't very becoming in my opinion. I used t6 in an old mercedes diesel and it had over 250k miles and ran very well when I sold it. The only oil used in the car for the last 175k miles. I realize a 95 mercedes is different than a current Cruze with a turbo. i am on free oil changes so not sure what I plan to use after the next two changes for my 14 Cruze.


Yes, a 95 Mercedes is very different. We are talking 20 years of lubrication technology advancements. That vehicle was made to run on oil of far poorer quality than Rotella T6, and will run reliably on those lubricants as well, given that they are used according to their usable drain interval. The truth is that anecdote is worthless. You cannot say "I never had an issue," because that doesn't guarantee that someone else wouldn't. 

The reality is that Rotella T6 is a group 3 petroleum oil with a poor shear stability and a high volatility. I have seen more analysis reports where that oil sheared down a viscosity grade from its original viscosity than I have where it didn't. When an oil shears, the already high 11% NOACK volatility goes even higher. My 300ZX customers see it shear an entire viscosity grade in 2500 miles. My Miata customers cannot use it for over 2000 miles because it shears. In addition, this oil has reformulated at least once in recent history, for the worse. This is of course in response to the use of that oil in gasoline engines. It belongs in older diesel engines, where you used it, and nowhere else. 

As noted by others here, the high sulfated ash content in Rotella T6 makes it unsuitable for use in this application, where it will cause problems with the diesel particulate filter and possibly sensors. There's a considerable variety of mid-saps and low-saps oils available for use in the CTD. Please take eveyrone's advice on this matter and save yourself some headache.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> Basically you have three main choices to send the sample to.
> 1. Tests / Price List2. Oil Testing Lab - Oil Analysis Kit - Oil Analyzers INC.
> 3. DysonAnalysis


Worth mentioning, is that Oil Analyzers, Inc is just AMSOIL's private label for Polaris Labs. Among other private labels include Conoco-Phillips, Cummins, Ingersoll-Rand, and Allison Transmission. They are the best oil analysis reporting company in the US. I advise against Blackstone Labs because their fuel dilution testing is wildly inaccurate and has led them to make incorrect interpretations of the oil's condition. In addition, they do not test oxidation. OAI/Polaris uses gas chromatography to test for actual fuel dilution, tests for oxidation, and includes TBN testing standard for all analysis reports, whereas Blackstone charges extra. I haven't personally used Dyson much so I can't comment on that. 

If you do end up using OAI, please consider using the URL below so I get credit for the order instead of some random local dealer you've never met. 

AMSOIL Oil Analyzers Test Kit, Postage Pre-Paid


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks extreme for the link. And yes tomoko has my 95 gc and my cbr1000, at the moment I I still get free oil changes so not worried but I'm looking ahead. Eventually I won't have the free maintenance and it would be nice to get options


----------



## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

If you want an in-depth analysis, Dyson Analysis is the way to go. No other lab gives you the personnel attention that Terry will provide. He sends you a PDF report and a .wav file explaining each and every part of the test. Plus turn around time is quick. If you mail in a sample on Monday, you will get a report back by Friday some times even sooner. At least that has been my experience over the past few samples I have sent in. You also can e-mail Terry with any questions. He is a Navy veteran and has over 35 years of experience of independent oil analysis interpretation and consultation work.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

how much does terry charge for his services? he sounds good


----------



## BlueTopaz (Aug 25, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> how much does terry charge for his services? he sounds good


Terry has 4 levels of analysis. You can see more info on them here. The one I described above is $149. Yes it is expensive, but he has directed me to issues I didn't know I had. So it helped me. His knowledge and experience is not like the cookie cutter responses that most labs provide from their data base of similar analysis. Terry takes into consideration the type/ brand of fuel you use, air filter and oil filter as well as the mechanical condition of the vehicle. Like if you have issues with your ignition system and might have a bad plug or coil due this showing up in your UOA. You can even call and talk to him personally, or text/e-mail.


----------



## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Yes, a 95 Mercedes is very different. We are talking 20 years of lubrication technology advancements. That vehicle was made to run on oil of far poorer quality than Rotella T6, and will run reliably on those lubricants as well, given that they are used according to their usable drain interval. The truth is that anecdote is worthless. You cannot say "I never had an issue," because that doesn't guarantee that someone else wouldn't.
> 
> The reality is that Rotella T6 is a group 3 petroleum oil with a poor shear stability and a high volatility. I have seen more analysis reports where that oil sheared down a viscosity grade from its original viscosity than I have where it didn't. When an oil shears, the already high 11% NOACK volatility goes even higher. My 300ZX customers see it shear an entire viscosity grade in 2500 miles. My Miata customers cannot use it for over 2000 miles because it shears. In addition, this oil has reformulated at least once in recent history, for the worse. This is of course in response to the use of that oil in gasoline engines. It belongs in older diesel engines, where you used it, and nowhere else.
> 
> As noted by others here, the high sulfated ash content in Rotella T6 makes it unsuitable for use in this application, where it will cause problems with the diesel particulate filter and possibly sensors. There's a considerable variety of mid-saps and low-saps oils available for use in the CTD. Please take eveyrone's advice on this matter and save yourself some headache.


I was only stating and perhaps I wasn't very clear, in the application I used t6 it worked very well for over 175k miles, the car was falling apart and the engine ran very well. So I can safely say "I never had and issue" and I know the buyer of the car and it is still running very well. T6 was made for a pre emmisions diesel just like I used it for. I don't own a Cruze diesel and wouldn't put that oil in the Cruze. Used for the correct application t6 can work well for a long time. I always use an oil that is designed for my current car.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> If you want an in-depth analysis, Dyson Analysis is the way to go. No other lab gives you the personnel attention that Terry will provide. He sends you a PDF report and a .wav file explaining each and every part of the test. Plus turn around time is quick. If you mail in a sample on Monday, you will get a report back by Friday some times even sooner. At least that has been my experience over the past few samples I have sent in. You also can e-mail Terry with any questions. He is a Navy veteran and has over 35 years of experience of independent oil analysis interpretation and consultation work.


I remember him now. My customers don't bother using him since I provide those services for free, and in the scope of automotive engine oil analysis, interpretation isn't all that difficult. I may recommend others to him if they need to get industrial machinery lubricants analyzed, however.


----------



## maikell77 (Oct 21, 2014)

Just to muddy the waters Rotella T6 is marketed as emissions friendly. It is not a low SAPs but appears to be a mid-SAPs. It meets Cummins CES 20081 spec. That is the specification for oil for emissions controlled engines. That includes engines with SCR and DPF's. Before the response of sensors comes into play, the NOx sensor used on the Cruze diesel is the same used on just about every Cummins engine with SCR. 

I have used Rotella and liked the T6 line quite a bit. The oil is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than any other semi-synthetic. For the record I have run Total Quartz Dexos 2 since factory service ran out 40k ago, except, amsoil once. Then I found for less than amsoil, I could get Dexos 2 oil delivered. I haven't had any issues in 62,000 miles of service.

The long short is simply with amazon you can get a delco filter and dexos 2 oil to your door in 3 days for about $50 bucks. I might prefer Rotella, but to stay factory approved for ~$15 more an oil change, cheap insurance.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

maikell77 said:


> Just to muddy the waters Rotella T6 is marketed as emissions friendly. It is not a low SAPs but appears to be a mid-SAPs. It meets Cummins CES 20081 spec. That is the specification for oil for emissions controlled engines. That includes engines with SCR and DPF's. Before the response of sensors comes into play, the NOx sensor used on the Cruze diesel is the same used on just about every Cummins engine with SCR.
> 
> I have used Rotella and liked the T6 line quite a bit. The oil is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than any other semi-synthetic. For the record I have run Total Quartz Dexos 2 since factory service ran out 40k ago, except, amsoil once. Then I found for less than amsoil, I could get Dexos 2 oil delivered. I haven't had any issues in 62,000 miles of service.
> 
> The long short is simply with amazon you can get a delco filter and dexos 2 oil to your door in 3 days for about $50 bucks. I might prefer Rotella, but to stay factory approved for ~$15 more an oil change, cheap insurance.


With that ZDDP level and that much Calcium and Magnesium reporting a 10+ TBN, there is absolutely no way that it is a mid saps oil. It is a full saps oil and is not suitable for use in passenger vehicles equipped with diesel particulate filters.


----------



## maikell77 (Oct 21, 2014)

But fine for heavy duty trucks with DPF? Small industrial equipment with DPF's......I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious what the difference is between the two technologies.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

maikell77 said:


> But fine for heavy duty trucks with DPF? Small industrial equipment with DPF's......I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious what the difference is between the two technologies.


Passenger equipment is far more restrictive with regard to how much particulate is trapped by those filters. They are more sensitive to sulfated ash. Check the analysis reports for all mid and low saps labeled oils and you'll find they all have a low TBN and a low ZDDP level, often half that of T6. This applies across the board to foreign diesels as well.


----------



## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Alot of apples and oranges comparisons here, please listen to the advice here it is truly sound and not arm chair expert bs.


----------



## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

maikell77 said:


> But fine for heavy duty trucks with DPF? Small industrial equipment with DPF's......I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious what the difference is between the two technologies.


Emissions standards. Passenger cars have much tighter emissions requirements in the US, despite the fact that a lot of the trucks on the market today are being sold as family wagons.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

well at work I went to parts department and non of the majority of oil is dexos2. all is dexos 1 and there where 3 boxes full of synthetic dexos2 oil but covered in Arabic so looks like we are starting to import it to the usa


----------



## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> well at work I went to parts department and non of the majority of oil is dexos2. all is dexos 1 and there where 3 boxes full of synthetic dexos2 oil but covered in Arabic so looks like we are starting to import it to the usa


It looks like they are switching from the semi-synthetic to the full synthetic for the GM Dexos2 oil. When I had my 4 free changes, it was with the semi-synthetic. I have seen no ill effects as a result.


----------



## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

diesel said:


> It looks like they are switching from the semi-synthetic to the full synthetic for the GM Dexos2 oil. When I had my 4 free changes, it was with the semi-synthetic. I have seen no ill effects as a result.


Congrats diesel on your 2,000th post above.

Ironically, this is my 1,700th post.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

ill take a pic tomorrow and post up what it looks like. but im glad the dealer carries dexos 2 in synthetic. I feel better with syn since Florida heat is brutal on oils and if im ever away from home or a oil source the synthetic is rated for 7k miles even though I plan on 4k oil changes


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> ill take a pic tomorrow and post up what it looks like. but im glad the dealer carries dexos 2 in synthetic. I feel better with syn since Florida heat is brutal on oils and if im ever away from home or a oil source the synthetic is rated for 7k miles even though I plan on 4k oil changes


Not that diesels are hard on oil, but remember that they are using a group 3 mineral oil. The word synthetic means nothing anymore. It is a marketing term. It is a more purified conventional oil. 

Did you ever wonder why the CTD doesn't use a water cooled turbo like the 1.4T does?


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I thought the ctd was a water and oil cooled turbo


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

the oil we have in the parts department


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> I thought the ctd was a water and oil cooled turbo


Oil cooled only. Reason? It doesn't get hot enough. 

Diesel EGTs (exhaust gas temp) are 1/2 to 1/3 that of gasoline EGTs. Becuase the exhaust gas is nowhere near as hot, the turbo doesn't get anywhere near as hot, which means it is nowhere near as hard on the oil.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I understand the reason why, but I figured that with additional water cooling it would be a help over the years and with so many garret turbos being water cooled why not run water cooled as preventative measures. plus he extra cooling if properly done can only help


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

pandrad61 said:


> I understand the reason why, but I figured that with additional water cooling it would be a help over the years and with so many garret turbos being water cooled why not run water cooled as preventative measures. plus he extra cooling if properly done can only help


The reason is because it isn't necessary. All water cooling does is add additional points of potential leaks and increases costs with regard to hoses and lines. It's unnecessary. Heat does not cause wear. Excessive heat causes wear.


----------



## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> With that ZDDP level and that much Calcium and Magnesium reporting a 10+ TBN, there is absolutely no way that it is a mid saps oil. It is a full saps oil and is not suitable for use in passenger vehicles equipped with diesel particulate filters.


Just learned (from records) previous owner did last oil change 5,000 miles ago using Shell Rotella T6 10w40. After reading this older thread and the comments about Rotella T6, I'm concerned this oil may not be correct for the CTD. I plan to do an oil change tomorrow and switch over to a DEXOS 2. 

Since I'm changing oil type, should I do an oil/filter change, drive a few miles then repeat or is that necessary? Don't want to waste the $$$ if not needed.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Rivergoer said:


> Just learned (from records) previous owner did last oil change 5,000 miles ago using Shell Rotella T6 10w40. After reading this older thread and the comments about Rotella T6, I'm concerned this oil may not be correct for the CTD. I plan to do an oil change tomorrow and switch over to a DEXOS 2.
> 
> Since I'm changing oil type, should I do an oil/filter change, drive a few miles then repeat or is that necessary? Don't want to waste the $$$ if not needed.


Not necessary to do more oil changes. Just dump it out and put the correct stuff in.


----------



## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

You can buy a 5 liter jug of dexos2 Pennzoil at Walmart for $22 and change.


----------



## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

beaurrr said:


> You can buy a 5 liter jug of dexos2 Pennzoil at Walmart for $22 and change.


the 5 qt jug of Pennzoil Euro L(Dexos2) at my local Wally World has jumped by over $2.00 a jug since they started carrying it a few months back and they also quit carrying the 1qt bottles at over $6.89 each. Not enough purchases ??


----------



## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

theonlypheonix said:


> the 5 qt jug of Pennzoil Euro L(Dexos2) at my local Wally World has jumped by over $2.00 a jug since they started carrying it a few months back and they also quit carrying the 1qt bottles at over $6.89 each. Not enough purchases ??


Just got the Pennzoil at local Walmart, $24.95. AutoZone didn't have ANY Dexos 2 oil, they didn't even know there was such a thing as Dexos 2 (scary). Ordered the filter from AutoZone, will be here tomorrow. Next time around I'll order a dozen online. Thanks Beaurrr and Theonlyphoenix for the info on Walmart, never would've thought the auto parts stores wouldn't carry Dexos 2.


----------



## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

That Walmart carries it, and for so cheaply, is a real plus. Previous to Walmart, I was buying from Amazon for about $40. The Walmart price makes it totally competitive with 'normal' oils.


----------



## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Not necessary to do more oil changes. Just dump it out and put the correct stuff in.


Thank you for the detailed info on Rotella T, previous owner swore by it. Glad I read all the info here.


----------

