# JLL's: The Golden Bullet



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Reserved this spot since I'm your favorite person here. Also to follow so I can tune in.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> And this is my tool chest (also on the 2nd story):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whoooa, Boring??? -- You had me at tool chest !

[You really should click on expand!]


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Whoooa, Boring??? -- You had me at tool chest !


Whenever I do go somewhere with more space, I'll need to get a bigger one. It is FULL. I some more things stored behind and around it. 



Thebigzeus said:


> Reserved this spot since I'm your favorite person here. Also to follow so I can tune in.


You are one of my favorite people on here, Thebigzeus.


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## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

Sounds like a fun project, JLL. Good luck with it.


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## cruze991 (Jan 4, 2020)

Surprised you don’t have that Wastegate actuator yet. It was the most noticeable mod I did after a tune intake and downpipe.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

cruze991 said:


> Surprised you don’t have that Wastegate actuator yet. It was the most noticeable mod I did after a tune intake and downpipe.


I have the ZZP Wastegate Actuator but I'm going to install it on the new turbo.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

thebac said:


> Sounds like a fun project, JLL. Good luck with it.


Thanks


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## cruze991 (Jan 4, 2020)

Good luck with the build tho, you should definitely put that thing on a dyno once everything is set.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

cruze991 said:


> Good luck with the build tho, you should definitely put that thing on a dyno once everything is set.


Thanks.

I plan to. I may even make the 3 hour drive it up to ZZP and have them dyno tune it.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I plan to. I may even make the 3 hour drive it up to ZZP and have them dyno tune it.


I’m 99% sure I’m going to go have ZZP do the valve springs and cam... and have an 18 hour drive! Going to wait until spring though, don’t want to get caught in a freak storm or something.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> I’m 99% sure I’m going to go have ZZP do the valve springs and cam... and have an 18 hour drive! Going to wait until spring though, don’t want to get caught in a freak storm or something.


Wow....that's a drive. How much did they quote you to do the job?


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Wow....that's a drive. How much did they quote you to do the job?


Just about $1250... I can’t make it to them until spring but I called my local Chevy dealership and the cost is about $300 bucks more to do the same work, of course I’d be supplying the springs, retainers, etc. They are 10 miles away!

ZZP said they can do it in under 5 hours with the tool they designed, Chevy said about 2 days so I’m assuming that is pulling the head off but I’d better check.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> Just about $1250... I can’t make it to them until spring but I called my local Chevy dealership and the cost is about $300 bucks more to do the same work, of course I’d be supplying the springs, retainers, etc. They are 10 miles away!
> 
> ZZP said they can do it in under 5 hours with the tool they designed, Chevy said about 2 days so I’m assuming that is pulling the head off but I’d better check.


Whoa.....for an additional $1200, I'll gladly do the work on my car myself. But I understand not everyone has the time to do that.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Whoa.....for an additional $1200, I'll gladly do the work on my car myself. But I understand not everyone has the time to do that.


I can do it as I’ve done them before just not on an overhead cam setup but I watched a video on a cam install on a 1.8 L Cruze and it’s more than I want to tackle in my car port, plus this is my daily driver.

16 valves and 32 very small retainers with the motor in the car doesn’t give me the fuzzies! 

ZZP’s cam does come with the tool to set the timing which is nice.


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## Lirb123 (Jan 6, 2021)

JLL said:


> Today I thought I would get off the fence and start a build thread. I apologize, as I have never documented any of my mods previously so, I do not have many pictures. Before I get into my my current mods, I'd like to talk a little bit about my work space. I've heard a lot of people on this forum let a lack of space or a "shop" area detour them from performing moderate/significant modifications to their vehicles. I live in the second story of a duplex home in the city. For those in a similar environment, I wanted to let you know that it can be done.
> 
> This is my workspace:
> View attachment 290282
> ...


nice build man, a lot of the things you have on right now are on my to do list so I have a couple questions. I have the zzp gauge pod and the exact same boost gauge and throttle body spacer that you have, but I’m having a couple issues installing them. The pod fit in correctly with the gauge but as far as actually connecting the gauge I’m not really sure what to do. I’ve searched up a bunch of videos and I’m just a little confused. Since you have the exact same setup as me, how did you do it exactly?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Lirb123 said:


> nice build man, a lot of the things you have on right now are on my to do list so I have a couple questions. I have the zzp gauge pod and the exact same boost gauge and throttle body spacer that you have, but I’m having a couple issues installing them. The pod fit in correctly with the gauge but as far as actually connecting the gauge I’m not really sure what to do. I’ve searched up a bunch of videos and I’m just a little confused. Since you have the exact same setup as me, how did you do it exactly?


Are you having issues physically connecting the boost line to the guage or the throttle body spacer or both?

Please be as specific as possible.

I connected the boost guage wiring/tubing with the pillar laying on the dash. Then I put the pillar up in the A-pillar with the guages installed and connected into the pillar.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> 16 valves and 32 very small retainers with the motor in the car doesn’t give me the fuzzies!


Magnets my friend. Magnets


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Magnets my friend. Magnets


Yes, I do own a couple of those things... 

I’m actually not in the best shape to tear into the car for a job like that, I’ve had a bad sleep disorder for 15 years and I was on 6 prescription meds to sleep. About 3 months ago I said enough is enough and I’m tapering off all but one and the last one is kicking my rear. I only have 7 hours of sleep in the last 5 days. I really wish I could have driven the car to ZZP for them to do the work but it just wasn’t feasible.

I’m ordering the springs, titanium retainers and stage one cam tomorrow. I will probably bring it into the Chevy dealership to do the work late next week. Then I’m done!! (At least until I’m not done  )

I think with the springs and cam it should be into the 200+ whp, Tim thought so also.

I really can’t wait until you start your build! The rods and pistons got me interested.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> I’m ordering the springs, titanium retainers and stage one cam tomorrow. I will probably bring it into the Chevy dealership to do the work late next week. Then I’m done!! (At least until I’m not done  )


I didn't think ZZP was publicly selling cams yet??


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I didn't think ZZP was publicly selling cams yet??


From what I understand they have a limited supply of stage one cams available. I mainly deal with Tim on almost everything, I asked about the stage two and he said those are still in development and couldn’t say anything about it.

Give it a week, week and a half and see what kind of gains I get from it since we are very similar with the exception of your internals. It says on the website that they are available by invoice only and to message customer service so I sent them an email and cc’d Tim. I gave them my entire order so hopefully they just do it on one invoice.

He said the car will run with the cam and no tune at least to drive it from the dealership to my house so we can remote tune it. I’m really curious to see what it adds and how it sounds!


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I was planning on going with stage 2. I figure if I'm going to take both cams out I might as well replace both of them with a performance cam.

That's probably why they told me they weren't releasing information about them because I ask about stage 2.

I'm not going to buy anything cam wise until April/May.

The weather here in northern Indiana is too cold to work outside for long periods of time until then.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I was planning on going with stage 2. I figure if I'm going to take both cams out I might as well replace both of them with a performance cam.
> 
> That's probably why they told me they weren't releasing information about them because I ask about stage 2.
> 
> ...


I’m lucky and was able to do most of my work on the cooler weather of Florida winters but about 7K miles ago before I even thought of modifying the car the turbo went, right smack in the middle of July.

Talk about frustration!

I put a shift light in the car because I found the factory tach sweeps slower than the engine is actually coming up. Very nice, just plugs into the OBD port and I use to use my phone for boost gauge but I ordered an auto meter today.

After that’s all said and done larger brakes and possibly coil overs but I drive on some really questionable roads... I looked into air ride but it runs around 2,600 for the Cruze. Not spending that much money. I like the car because it looks like a regular Cruze Eco and the only thing that even hints at there might be more is the exhaust note.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I was planning on going with stage 2. I figure if I'm going to take both cams out I might as well replace both of them with a performance cam.
> 
> That's probably why they told me they weren't releasing information about them because I ask about stage 2.
> 
> ...


I just remember something that Tim mentioned in an email about the stage 2 cams.... he said it’s going to take a really big turbo to benefit from them but the V3 was perfect for the stage one cam...so I’m not sure but I don’t know if the V3 will be big enough!


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> I just remember something that Tim mentioned in an email about the stage 2 cams.... he said it’s going to take a really big turbo to benefit from them but the V3 was perfect for the stage one cam...so I’m not sure but I don’t know if the V3 will be big enough!


I'll ask him before I buy.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I'll ask him before I buy.


I was ready to order the parts today and apparently their cams use a different cam tool then the factory ones do... so they aren’t shipping them until the tools are ready to ship with the cam.

That puts a wrench in my plans, I don’t know if the dealership will want to get that involved with it and they said a performance shop would be a better idea but trying to find a performance shop that will touch the 1.4 is going to be a stretch. Plus I have a limited time to get the work done before I have to return to work.

They said hopefully it’s a matter of days. Other than having BNR racing about 40 miles from me there are very few performance shop around where I live.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> I was ready to order the parts today and apparently their cams use a different cam tool then the factory ones do... so they aren’t shipping them until the tools are ready to ship with the cam.
> 
> That puts a wrench in my plans, I don’t know if the dealership will want to get that involved with it and they said a performance shop would be a better idea but trying to find a performance shop that will touch the 1.4 is going to be a stretch. Plus I have a limited time to get the work done before I have to return to work.
> 
> They said hopefully it’s a matter of days. Other than having BNR racing about 40 miles from me there are very few performance shop around where I live.


Gotcha. That's good to know.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Gotcha. That's good to know.


He also said the V3 is good to mid to high two hundreds for horsepower. He saidthe stock engine is pretty strong when properly modified and tuned and not to bother building a stronger lower end until and if I blow up mine. Seems they may have a bigger turbo in the works also.

I asked him what can I expect from the stage one cams with my mods, depending on how much power they are worth I might just do the valve springs and let the dealership do them. I will pick up quite a lot from them with all the work that’s done.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> He also said the V3 is good to mid to high two hundreds for horsepower.


I would imagine in a front wheel drive car, you wouldn't really want more power than that unless you were planning to race it.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I would imagine in a front wheel drive car, you wouldn't really want more power than that unless you were planning to race it.


I agree and I don’t have plans to race it, I don’t even know if there is a drag strip within 45 miles of me!

Unless the cam is worth more then 20-25 HP I’m starting to lean towards just doing the springs. I’ll pick up 7-10 HP from them and the last time we tuned the car I didn’t have the FMIC, ported intake manifold or fully catless exhaust so I’m pretty sure he can get more aggressive on the tune. The car is fast as it is now.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Lirb123 said:


> nice build man, a lot of the things you have on right now are on my to do list so I have a couple questions. I have the zzp gauge pod and the exact same boost gauge and throttle body spacer that you have, but I’m having a couple issues installing them. The pod fit in correctly with the gauge but as far as actually connecting the gauge I’m not really sure what to do. I’ve searched up a bunch of videos and I’m just a little confused. Since you have the exact same setup as me, how did you do it exactly?


This should get you most of the way:


How-To: Install gauges in a ZZP Pillar Pod A-Z Part 1


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Cruzin2011 said:


> Yes, I do own a couple of those things...
> 
> I’m actually not in the best shape to tear into the car for a job like that, I’ve had a bad sleep disorder for 15 years and I was on 6 prescription meds to sleep. About 3 months ago I said enough is enough and I’m tapering off all but one and the last one is kicking my rear. I only have 7 hours of sleep in the last 5 days. I really wish I could have driven the car to ZZP for them to do the work but it just wasn’t feasible.
> 
> ...


I was under the impression that the cams will not do anything without installing the big wheel turbo as well.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

Blasirl said:


> I was under the impression that the cams will not do anything without installing the big wheel turbo as well.


Yes, you are correct... the stage one cams will work great with the V3 turbo but I’m under the impression the stage two cams need a bigger turbo then that.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> I agree and I don’t have plans to race it, I don’t even know if there is a drag strip within 45 miles of me!
> 
> Unless the cam is worth more then 20-25 HP I’m starting to lean towards just doing the springs. I’ll pick up 7-10 HP from them and the last time we tuned the car I didn’t have the FMIC, ported intake manifold or fully catless exhaust so I’m pretty sure he can get more aggressive on the tune. The car is fast as it is now.


Actually from what I have read, the valve springs are only needed for high boost levels (above 22 psi) to prevent valve float. If your only running 20 psi you may not even need the valve springs. I know the Thebigzeus is running 22 psi on the stock turbo for awhile and he's fine.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Actually from what I have read, the valve springs are only needed for high boost levels (above 22 psi) to prevent valve float. If your only running 20 psi you may not even need the valve springs. I know the Thebigzeus is running 22 psi on the stock turbo for awhile and he's fine.


Turned it down a bit for the winter, too much KR on winter gas I guess. But in the summer yes.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Actually from what I have read, the valve springs are only needed for high boost levels (above 22 psi) to prevent valve float. If your only running 20 psi you may not even need the valve springs. I know the Thebigzeus is running 22 psi on the stock turbo for awhile and he's fine.


That’s interesting... 

I peak at 20.5 at peak but I got 102K miles on them... I will probably pick up a bit more on the next tune, Tim said he will add it if the scans come back good. I haven’t experienced any float that I can tell but my rev limiter is set to 6500. I’d like to be able to wind out the gears a bit longer, especially 1st as that comes up so quickly

Tim did say it would be good to change them because of the mileage and I’d see a big improvement with all the mods I’ve done but I could probably get 120K miles out of them if I had to stretch it.

I’ve already put a lot into the engine so I’d rather play it safe, if the cams do add quite a bit more HP then I will probably wait until spring and have them do it, I put a lot of miles on my car!


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Actually from what I have read, the valve springs are only needed for high boost levels (above 22 psi) to prevent valve float. If your only running 20 psi you may not even need the valve springs. I know the Thebigzeus is running 22 psi on the stock turbo for awhile and he's fine.


Here is an interesting thread from Porsche forum on the effects on valve springs. Higher boost does play a roll as well as RPM and mileage. Every article I read said at the 100K mark springs might have lost 10% of their tension. 

Why upgrade valve springs?! - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Today, I've been reading about the humble spark plug. There's a LOT of information on this forum about them for a 93 octane gasoline setup. But there is very little information about them with an E85 setup.

Based on my research I've decided to try a NGK nickel/copper plug for 1,000 miles or so before I install the upgraded internals to see how they run.

I'll follow up with results.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I ordered a ZZP Stage 1 Performance Camshaft and got it in the mail yesterday. That got me thinking, why don't I build a performance head before I start the main build? That way it saves me down time when I start taking thing apart in the spring.

I ordered a bare cylinder head from GM. I already have the valve seals, upgraded springs, titanium retainers, rocker arms, lifters, and the cams. That just leaves valves and valve locks and I'll have a complete assembly.

That gave me another idea.....why not install upgraded valves while I'm at it? So, I contacted Manley Performance about custom valves. I will be sending them 1 stock intake valve and 1 stock exhaust valve so they can "copy" their basic dimensions and give me an estimate for upgraded valves.

I'll update with results once I have them. I'm expecting the estimate process to take a few weeks.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I ordered a ZZP Stage 1 Performance Camshaft and got it in the mail yesterday. That got me thinking, why don't I build a performance head before I start the main build? That way it saves me down time when I start taking thing apart in the spring.
> 
> I ordered a bare cylinder head from GM. I already have the valve seals, upgraded springs, titanium retainers, rocker arms, lifters, and the cams. That just leaves valves and valve locks and I'll have a complete assembly.
> 
> ...


I was planning on doing something similar but getting an entire spare engine to build but Tim at ZZP said not to go that far even if I happen to blow the factory engine. He’s got a lot of confidence in these engines.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: I wanted to talk about connecting rods today, in case anyone in the future is considering upgrading them. Upgraded Connecting rods for the LUJ are hard to come by these days. I have been in contacting ZZP on and off for the last 5 months about their $400 H beam connecting rods (BTW that's the same price as a set of stock I-beam connecting rods). They've been telling me that they are unsure if they can get them manufactured again. So, about a month ago, I ordered some K1 Forged H Beam Connecting Rods. I knew that these were discontinued so when I saw them I jumped at the chance to buy them. After 3 weeks of emails I was informed that my order wasn't going to be filled and I was refunded for my order.

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about here's a graphic:












Today, I decided to order some custom made connecting rods from Pauter. These are an X Beam design made from 4340 Steel. Lead time is 4-6 weeks. The price tag: $980 Shipped.
I'll update again when I get them.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I ordered a ZZP Stage 1 Performance Camshaft and got it in the mail yesterday. That got me thinking, why don't I build a performance head before I start the main build? That way it saves me down time when I start taking thing apart in the spring.
> 
> I ordered a bare cylinder head from GM. I already have the valve seals, upgraded springs, titanium retainers, rocker arms, lifters, and the cams. That just leaves valves and valve locks and I'll have a complete assembly.
> 
> ...


When you say upgraded, is that material and/or shape changes?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> When you say upgraded, is that material and/or shape changes?


I'm going to send Manley, or maybe Ferrea, the valve samples and let them determine that. I'm assuming that the material could be improved upon since I'm going to be using a setup with greater spring force. As for the overall valve shape, I would hope GM put alot of effort into finding a design that works efficiently. But I'll see what the professional think.

Who knows? They may even tell me that the valves don't need an upgrade. The stock intake valve looks like steel coated in a black coating. But the stock exhaust valve looks like it's stainless steel or coated in stainless steel.
Although I find this scenario unlikely.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I'm going to send Manley, or maybe Ferrera, the valve samples and let them determine that. I'm assuming that the material could be improved upon since I'm going to be using a setup with greater spring force. As for the overall valve shape, I would hope GM put alot of effort into finding a design that works efficiently. But I'll see what the professional think.
> 
> Who knows? They may even tell me that the valves don't need an upgrade. The stock intake valve looks like steel coated in a black coating. But the stock exhaust valve looks like it's stainless steel or coated in stainless steel.
> Although I find this scenario unlikely.


I did run across this pretty decent article:








Performance Valves


The power that an engine produces depends to a large extent on how much air it flows. The larger the engine’s displacement in cubic inches, the more air it pumps with every stroke and the more horsepower it makes. Rpms also make power. In theory, doubling the engine’s speed doubles its power...




www.enginebuildermag.com


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I did run across this pretty decent article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I ❤ EngineBuilder


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: I have discovered why I have never heard of anyone upgrading valves on the LUJ. I sent samples to Ferrea and asked them to make a quote for valves made from a better material than the stock ones. They gave me an estimate of $1,150. 

But wait! That's not all!

The smallest stem diameter blanks the had were 4.97mm. The stock intake valve has a stem diameter of 4.95mm and the stock exhaust valve has a stem diameter of 4.93mm. Given the internal valve guide diameter and the required valve to guide clearance requirements, the valves guides would have to be re-clearenced to accept the new valves. So, I called a local machine shop for pricing. The cost of re-clearenceing and touching up the valve seats to maintain perpendicularity, $800.

All together, that's $1,950.

My other option is new stock valves for $300.

I did contact ZZP for some advice and they said that they use the stock valves in their 400 HP Sonic.  

I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet, but I wanted to share the information.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

To run 4.97mm valves you'd likely wanna go up to a +.075 intake valve guide and a +.150 exhaust guide.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> To run 4.97mm valves you'd likely wanna go up to a +.075 intake valve guide and a +.150 exhaust guide.


Wouldn't that be too much clearance? 0.02 mm is less than 0.001 inch. 0.05 mm is just under .002 inch. OR is there something I'm not understanding?


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

I'm guessing they would just turn the .02 and .04 mm off of the "blank"s stem to the required OD. The radius of valve would also have to be cut as well as the angles (usually 3 different) of valve seats. Most of the price your paying is for setting up the job on a lathe. Personally if zzp is making 400 whp with stock valves it's a waste of $. The springs are the weak area.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

-loki- said:


> I'm guessing they would just turn the .02 and .04 mm off of the "blank"s stem to the required OD. The radius of valve would also have to be cut as well as the angles (usually 3 different) of valve seats. Most of the price your paying is for setting up the job on a lathe. Personally if zzp is making 400 whp with stock valves it's a waste of $. The springs are the weak area.


Thanks for the reply @-loki- 

Ferrea acted like they couldn't do that and told me I would have to have the valve guides clearanced by a machine shop?

I'm still indecisive at this point.


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

I believe on that the cost out ways the benefit as I doubt you'll reach a point where it will matter and be driving the car in other than a straight line. Another point is it will also make it more expensive and more down time should you have a booboo.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

-loki- said:


> I believe on that the cost out ways the benefit as I doubt you'll reach a point where it will matter and be driving the car in other than a straight line.


Yeah, it's hard to justify the cost. I'm concerned about the durability of the stock valves with the increased spring pressure and lift. I have other vehicles but, I do plan to drive the car every chance I get, weather permitting. What's the point in having a car that you don't drive? 



-loki- said:


> Another point is it will also make it more expensive and more down time should you have a booboo.


That is *very* true about the down time. Lead time on the valves are 3-4 weeks.

Off topic, How are you enjoying this BEAUTIFUL weather for early March?


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

I'm enjoying it from inside this beautiful leaky metal box I come to everyday at the moment. I did manage to get some stuff done yesterday... waiting on an OBD1 connector to make a coms cable for the sunbird. Tuning starts on that soon.😆 How about you?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

-loki- said:


> I'm enjoying it from inside this beautiful leaky metal box I come to everyday at the moment. I did manage to get some stuff done yesterday... waiting on an OBD1 connector to make a coms cable for the sunbird. Tuning starts on that soon.😆 How about you?


Goos deal. I love this weather. Compared to 15 degrees it almost feels like 70. The ground is WET though. Been going for walks with my wife every other day. If this keeps up I might be able to do my build in April rather than May assuming I have all my parts by then. I'm still waiting on a bare cylinder head I ordered online a month ago. If I don't get it by the end of the month I may have to talk to the guys at Kelley.


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

Grab one at lkq... was just there they had at least 1 1.4l cruze.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

JLL said:


> Wouldn't that be too much clearance? 0.02 mm is less than 0.001 inch. 0.05 mm is just under .002 inch. OR is there something I'm not understanding?


Sorry it was late for me, and was using the wrong numbers on my end.

A 4.97mm intake valve can fit in a burnished stock valve guide and get a decent .037mm clearance without going outside GM spec on the guide

To get at least .060mm clearance on a 4.97mm exhaust valve will require going out of spec on a stock guide, knurling or honing non stock guide, or running a sleeved oversized guide. A 4.97mm won't fit in any GM OEM guides without knurling or sleeving.


If you were to run $1,100 valves I would get the guides check, sized and honed perpendicular regardless. It would be a waste of new valves not too anyway.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

-loki- said:


> Grab one at lkq... was just there they had at least 1 1.4l cruze.


Thanks for the info. I'll give it another couple weeks and a phone call since I already paid for it.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE on valves:

Cruzetalk, Meet Sampson. He's 11 months old.










This weekend, Sampson prompted me to make the decision to spend $1,000 at the emergency vet saving his life instead of spending it on custom valves. He got into some of my morning medication (a prescription NSAID) and they had to flush out his kidneys for a couple days to keep them from shutting down.

What can I say.... There are some things I love more than my car. New stock valves it is! But Sampson is going to be OK.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I'm sure Sampson has a better ROI on that money than valves do.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> I'm sure Sampson has a better ROI on that money than valves do.


Yes he does.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I hate having to spend money on Roscoe(our 🐕) but am always happy that I did.

Happy your 🐈 is okay


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> I hate having to spend money on Roscoe(our 🐕) but am always happy that I did.
> 
> Happy your 🐈 is okay


Thanks


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

Glad he's ok.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

-loki- said:


> Glad he's ok.


Thanks Loki


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Watching as well.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> Yeah, it's hard to justify the cost. I'm concerned about the durability of the stock valves with the increased spring pressure and lift. I have other vehicles but, I do plan to drive the car every chance I get, weather permitting. What's the point in having a car that you don't drive?
> 
> 
> That is *very* true about the down time. Lead time on the valves are 3-4 weeks.
> ...


I read that great article and with the overall size of how small our values are and being it’s forced induction where air can be pushed around a stock valve rather well my 2 cents is to just go with stock.

It’s like me looking at upgrading valve springs and cams while driving 1350 miles to get there for 20-25hp and close to 1700-1900 bucks.

That’s an awful return on investment


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: My dreams of starting this build ahead of time and saving time during the build have been shattered. The F head that I ordered over a month ago was canceled by GM because the part has been discontinued. So now, the only option I would have to start early would be to purchase a fully assembled refurbished cylinder head, for $700. That would leave me with a lot of extra parts.

So, I guess the plan now is to disassemble the cylinder head that's on the car once I start the build and rebuild the head with my parts.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> UPDATE: My dreams of starting this build ahead of time and saving time during the build have been shattered. The F head that I ordered over a month ago was canceled by GM because the part has been discontinued. So now, the only option I would have to start early would be to purchase a fully assembled refurbished cylinder head, for $700. That would leave me with a lot of extra parts.
> 
> So, I guess the plan now is to disassemble the cylinder head that's on the car once I start the build and rebuild the head with my parts.


Any yards nearby where maybe you could pull one to rebuild ahead of time ?


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> UPDATE: My dreams of starting this build ahead of time and saving time during the build have been shattered. The F head that I ordered over a month ago was canceled by GM because the part has been discontinued. So now, the only option I would have to start early would be to purchase a fully assembled refurbished cylinder head, for $700. That would leave me with a lot of extra parts.
> 
> So, I guess the plan now is to disassemble the cylinder head that's on the car once I start the build and rebuild the head with my parts.


Before you buy a remanufactured head, take yours to a machine shop with your parts. It may be cheaper and faster.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Any yards nearby where maybe you could pull one to rebuild ahead of time ?


There is one, but I'm wanting to avoid a salvage head. I want to know what I'm working with is in good shape, since I'm exceeding the original design limits of the engine.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Before you buy a remanufactured head, take yours to a machine shop with your parts. It may be cheaper and faster.


Hadn't thought of that... 
I'll make a phone call or 2.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> There is one, but I'm wanting to avoid a salvage head. I want to know what I'm working with is in good shape, since I'm exceeding the original design limits of the engine.


If you have the used head magnafluxed it will tell if there are any cracks or the like any place on it.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> If you have the used head magnafluxed it will tell if there are any cracks or the like any place on it.


I'm aware of that. I guess I just don't want to go to all the hassle.


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

JLL said:


> Hadn't thought of that...
> I'll make a phone call or 2.


C&P machine on industrial rd... used to be the place back in the day, but that was 15+ years ago.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

-loki- said:


> C&P machine on industrial rd... used to be the place back in the day, but that was 15+ years ago.


Ironically, That's who I called. 😆 It's going to be about the same price as a remanded head with machining and assembly. They said with tax returns and stimulus right now their lead time is 2 weeks.

I'll probably just do it myself since I have the tools.


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## -loki- (Dec 13, 2019)

They did a great job on my GRD ported head that needed repaired. 5 angle valve job. Kinda miss the quad Z24 sometimes it was a pretty mean street machine and had about the same output as the tuned cruze but was lighter.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE:

I'm going to be taking a break from the forum.
I'm planning to be back on May 1st but I could be back before that. I purchased a remanufactured cylinder head and I hope to get it re-built with my parts during the month of April so I can save time during the build. I'll post pictures when I come back from my break.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Good luck bud. lookin forward to seeing build pics.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Good luck bud. lookin forward to seeing build pics.


Thanks @Mr_Pat


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

ANOTHER UPDATE BEFORE APRIL 1ST:

I received word today that by the end of next week I should have, what I anticipate, are all of the parts and supplies needed for my build!


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> ANOTHER UPDATE BEFORE APRIL 1ST:
> 
> I received word today that by the end of next week I should have, what I anticipate, are all of the parts and supplies needed for my build!


Awesome, once the machine work is done the real fun begins.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: As some of you know I only took a week off before coming back. But while I was gone I received my remanufactured cylinder head, shown below. The valves and valve seals were replaced by the machine shop that rebuilt the head. I'm replacing the valve springs, retainers, lifters, rocker arms, and cams. I'll also be replacing the exhaust studs, timing tensioner, and water outlet as well along with many other OE parts.

The head as it came out of the box:










I've replaced the valve springs and retainers already. Before I get to the picture, (or "car porn" as my wife calls it), I would like to comment on the process. I know that there as several of you that have talked about wanting to install new valve springs but are intimidated by the process. This is understandable as ZZP "highly recommends" not removing the head to install valve springs. They even commented to me that: "They really can't be installed with the head off the vehicle. You'll have to return the head to the vehicle." This is FALSE. It is true that most valve spring compressors won't work on the LUJ head because of the design of the PCV passages, but there are those that will that aren't $300. If you have the ability to take the head off, you have the ability to change the valve springs. Personally, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to replace the valve springs with the head ON the car, especially installing the valve locks (keepers). Feel free to ask questions if you have them. Now for some pictures.

The assembled stock springs:










What came out:










What's going in:










ZZP valve springs and Titanium retainers installed:


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

How nervous are you to reassemble everything?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> How nervous are you to reassemble everything?


What exactly do you mean?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> What exactly do you mean?


I mean isn't putting a head on a pretty big deal? Timinng, head gasket, etc.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I mean isn't putting a head on a pretty big deal? Timinng, head gasket, etc.


If you have the confidence, time, knowledge, and the correct tools, No.

It is more complicated than say, changing a water pump, but just like changing a water pump,, if you follow the procedure and take your time, it's no big deal. It does require some special tools that are to do the job.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> UPDATE: As some of you know I only took a week off before coming back. But while I was gone I received my remanufactured cylinder head, shown below. The valves and valve seals were replaced by the machine shop that rebuilt the head. I'm replacing the valve springs, retainers, lifters, rocker arms, and cams. I'll also be replacing the exhaust studs, timing tensioner, and water outlet as well along with many other OE parts.



So im curious as to how you replaced the rockers and lifters  and yes im giving ya a hard time  and personally I'd rather do the springs with the head off as it gives the opportunity to inspect the seats and valves, stems , guides , and seals.


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## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

That’s some good info ! I do have a couple questions. If one was to try to attempt with the head on the car, can the cams be removed without messing with the chain and gears ? I understand timing would need to be set after the install. Other, what did you use in the end to compress the springs ? Was it a proper tool or a DIY like I’ve seen on youtube

thanks


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> So im curious as to how you replaced the rockers and lifters  and yes im giving ya a hard time  and personally I'd rather do the springs with the head off as it gives the opportunity to inspect the seats and valves, stems , guides , and seals.


That was the hardest part! 

For those of you who don't know, the rocker arms lift out and the lifters pull out with slightly more force.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> That’s some good info ! I do have a couple questions. If one was to try to attempt with the head on the car, can the cams be removed without messing with the chain and gears ? I understand timing would need to be set after the install. Other, what did you use in the end to compress the springs ? Was it a proper tool or a DIY like I’ve seen on youtube
> 
> thanks


On the LUJ, the spockets/cam phasers have to be unbolted from the cams, but the timing tool set allows you to leave the chain and cam phasers in place so you don't need to remove the timing cover and all the components. Here is an example picture, not my car btw. The picture is with the head removed, but it let's you see what I'm referring to:











I used this compressor to remove the springs:














__





Heavy Duty Valve Spring Compressor | OTC Tools







www.otctools.com


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## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks much appreciated! That answered my question


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

SlyCruze said:


> That’s some good info ! I do have a couple questions. If one was to try to attempt with the head on the car, can the cams be removed without messing with the chain and gears ? I understand timing would need to be set after the install. Other, what did you use in the end to compress the springs ? Was it a proper tool or a DIY like I’ve seen on youtube
> 
> thanks


This article gives step by step instructions that a Chevy dealership would do it,you do need a special valve spring compressor tool that bolts to the head and has a threaded guide rod to hold the spring down, get the two very small spring keepers, then unscrew the guide rod and do the reverse to install the new ones ... the worse part is you have to but the tool that GM uses which about $260-280 on eBay. The springs are so small and deep into the head other overhead cam valve spring tools won’t work. The one special tool is number EN 50717 kit.






Chevrolet Sonic Repair Manual: Valve Stem Oil Seal and Valve Spring Replacement - Valve Actuating Assembly - Valvetrain - Engine - Powertrain







www.csmans.com


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Update: I have the new lifters, rocker arms, and camshafts installed in the head. I'm going to post some pictures that may seem redundant but I want to post them as reference. For those who don't know, with the ZZP stage 1 camshaft setup, the OEM Intake camshaft gets installed on the exhaust side while the ZZP stage 1 camshaft gets installed on the intake side.

This is a picture of the lifters and rocker arms in place on the right side, and just the lifters on the left side.









This is the new OEM Intake camshaft that I purchased for the exhaust side.










For installation, I put break in oil on the cam bearings and a *LIGHT* coating of assembly lube on the camshaft rollers and lobes. This is the assembly lube I'm using for most of my build.












Here is the intake camshaft installed in the head.










The ZZP camshaft cam in a shiny box:










Once I opened the box, I found that it look almost identical to an OEM camshaft. "ZZP" is stamped on the side of the camshaft and the lobes have a noticeable larger profile.











This is the head with the intake came installed on the left side and the lifters and rocker arms installed on the right side. After I installed each camshaft, as shown below, I installed the cam phasers bolt (included from ZZP) in the end of the camshaft to test the operation of the valvetrain. NOTE: These are torque to yield bolts, so I will need new ones when I put the head on the car.










This is with both camshafts installed. The ZZP camshaft (intake) is on top and the OEM Intake camshaft (exhaust) is on the bottom.










ZZP provides a timing tool for the camshaft ends to go along with the regular timing tools. The tool that ZZP provides replaces the long bar in the regular timing tool set. 










That's it for today. Feel free to ask questions if you have them.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Interesting that it doesn't change the exhaust side of things...

You've probably said it before, but what are the camshaft specs stock intake to ZZP, as well as stock exhaust?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Interesting that it doesn't change the exhaust side of things...
> 
> You've probably said it before, but what are the camshaft specs stock intake to ZZP, as well as stock exhaust?


Honestly I'd have to ask ZZP. They say with the V3 it's a 10-15 HP increase. It does change the exhaust side of things because the stock intake cam get re-oriented and goes over to the exhaust side and is visably larger than the stock exhaust cam. How much, I don't know...

The only thing I have to show you is marketing this from ZZP:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Well that's definitely an interesting way to do things...use the intake for the exhaust and then bump up the intake. It does make sense though, based on the exhaust as is - you need a big turbo to take advantage of anything exhaust.

Looks like it has a bit more lift/duration going from the exhaust to the stock intake, and then the intake to ZZP intake has a tiny bit more lift but a fair amount more duration, at least just from what I can see looking at a picture.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Well that's definitely an interesting way to do things...use the intake for the exhaust and then bump up the intake. It does make sense though, based on the exhaust as is - you need a big turbo to take advantage of anything exhaust.
> 
> Looks like it has a bit more lift/duration going from the exhaust to the stock intake, and then the intake to ZZP intake has a tiny bit more lift but a fair amount more duration, at least just from what I can see looking at a picture.


ZZP supposedly has a stage 2 and stage 3 camshaft set in development. However realistically, I can't really see them selling well for a discontinued platform.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> ZZP supposedly has a stage 2 and stage 3 camshaft set in development. However realistically, I can't really see them selling well for a discontinued platform.


You'd be surprised - the Cobalt hasn't been made for 11 years and it still has a healthy aftermarket/community. 

Hell, even what ZZP started on, the 3800/W-Bodies, are still going strong. They actually just introduced a brand new set of their own Coilovers for the W-Bodies. My brother is seriously considering those for his '01 Century to go along with their big ZZP swaybars we already put on.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

MP81 said:


> You'd be surprised - the Cobalt hasn't been made for 11 years and it still has a healthy aftermarket/community.
> 
> Hell, even what ZZP started on, the 3800/W-Bodies, are still going strong. They actually just introduced a brand new set of their own Coilovers for the W-Bodies. My brother is seriously considering those for his '01 Century to go along with their big ZZP swaybars we already put on.


exactly what I was about to post. Tons of 3800 interest still.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> You'd be surprised - the Cobalt hasn't been made for 11 years and it still has a healthy aftermarket/community.
> 
> Hell, even what ZZP started on, the 3800/W-Bodies, are still going strong. They actually just introduced a brand new set of their own Coilovers for the W-Bodies. My brother is seriously considering those for his '01 Century to go along with their big ZZP swaybars we already put on.


I guess that is true. That's how I found ZZP in 2003. I put one of their turbo kits on my 96 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight. I had to do the tuning myself because no one supported the first year of OBDII.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: A couple weeks ago I was browsing ZZP’s website and noticed that they offered a new ported compressor housing option for their V3 turbo. According to their website the porting adds an additional 15- 20 whp over the standard V3. Since the V3 I ordered in the fall was unused and still sealed in it's shipping box, I emailed ZZP to see if I could "exchange" it for the new ported option. Sure enough the great people at ZZP told me I could, even 7 months after I bought it.

So....I paid $45 to send it back, with $1,100 of shipping insurance. They then inspect it to keep me honest, gave me a $1,100 store credit, and I purchased the version with the ported compressor housing for $1,215 with shipping.

I guess I'll see if the additional $160 was worth it in a few weeks.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

More Power!


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Update: This build seems to be getting more complex. My original intentions were to install the pistons and the rods with the engine in the car as some have done before. That is certainly possible with stock connecting rods. It dawned on me this afternoon that the LUJ is an undersquare engine, meaning the stroke is greater than the bore. So, I took some unconventional measurements of my custom rods and I think I'm MIGHT have to install them from the bottom and maybe notch the cylinder bore slightly. Which will evolve pulling the motor. I'll post some pictures to show you the difference.

Pauter X-Beam Connecting Rod:










Example of notching the cylinder bore:


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Isn't there oil sprayers at the bottom of the bore ?? These rods are wider than the bore ?? Personally I;d pull the engine to do the installation work anyway that way I have access to check all my clearances.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Isn't there oil sprayers at the bottom of the bore ?? These rods are wider than the bore ?? Personally I;d pull the engine to do the installation work anyway that way I have access to check all my clearances.


There are oil sprayers on the bottom of the bores but they are offset from the rods. I measured the base of the rod and they are wider than the bore by about. 0.050". I don't have alot of confidence they'll go in from the top. But the may once the caps come off. The X-Beam part of the rod is wider than the stock I-beam rods. Pauter put a disclaimer in the box, that on some small bore, "long" stroke engines that the cylinder bore may need to be notched slightly to avoid interference.

Here's an image I found from a Sonic forum:


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Mental note to self to watch out for this lol Never installed pistons through the bottom of a motor before myself Good luck

Edit:

Duh floating wristpin push rod up from bottom installwristpin and piston on top compress and install .... sorry my brain is slow today.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Mental note to self to watch out for this lol Never installed pistons through the bottom of a motor before myself Good luck
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Duh floating wristpin push rod up from bottom installwristpin and piston on top compress and install .... sorry my brain is slow today.


Thanks


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I looked at some more pictures of the block and I think the bore might be too deep to install the rods from the bottom. I may need to have Pauter machine 0.025" off each side of the big side of the rod end and cap so they fit down the bore. I ordered a new 2.854" piston ring compressor sleeve to test fit.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: The connecting rod issue will be solved.

I e-mailed Pauter today. They are sending me a call tag so they can fix the problem.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

ANOTHER UPDATE: I opened up my ported V3 today. It's kind of underwhelming in appearance to be honest. The wastegate actuator is visibly larger than the stock one. It's supposed to be 2psi higher than the stock one. However I'm going to replace it with the ZZP billet wastegate actuator that I purchased last fall. I was originally going to install it on the stock turbo, but in the process of installing it I realized that the rod was too long, didn't mark it, and ended up cut too much off of the end of it. ZZP sent me a replacement rod that was much longer that the original rod, so I decided to wait to size it until I got a larger turbo.

My plan for today was to resize the Billet actuator's rod to fit the V3 but low and behold the larger rod is the correct size for the V3! 

I'll take what I can get.

Here's some pictures:

ZZP shipping a box within a box:










Inside the "smaller" box:










Looks like a normal turbo/manifold:










Except for "ZZP" etched into the side and the normal hex head bolts:










Billet wastegate actuator:


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

It "looks" like a normal turbo because it is, just bigger insides  Can't wait for the install!


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> It "looks" like a normal turbo because it is, just bigger insides  Can't wait for the install!




That is true, Thebigzeus. Supposedly the insides, that I cannot see, are ported too. So that should be fun!

My original intentions were for the install to be in a couple weeks, but now that my connecting rods are going back in for some re-work, it will have to be delayed. I was hoping to avoid building in the "hot" season here in northern Indiana.

Plus I may need to buy some more bolts and things IF, I end up pulling the engine to do the install. I haven't came to a conclusion about that part yet.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

2ND UPDATE FOR THE DAY: After looking at my new V3 today, I began to regret selling the never used Forge Motorsports Atmospheric Bypass Valve (aka Blow-Off Valve) that I had a couple months ago. I sold it because my tuner gave me grief about it and told me it wouldn't work right. After talking to some people on here who have them and don't have issues with them, I determined that my tuner was feeding me B.S... Why? I don't know.

So tonight, I bought another one! I'm gonna make it work one way or another...


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> 2ND UPDATE FOR THE DAY: After looking at my new V3 today, I began to regret selling the never used Forge Motorsports Atmospheric Bypass Valve (aka Blow-Off Valve) that I had a couple months ago. I sold it because my tuner gave me grief about it and told me it wouldn't work right. After talking to some people on here who have them and don't have issues with them, I determined that my tuner was feeding me B.S... Why? I don't know.
> 
> So tonight, I bought another one! I'm gonna make it work one way or another...


They work, but create odd negative fuel trims because the air doesn’t go back into the system. Therefore the car has to adjust fuel out to match the air.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> They work, but create odd negative fuel trims because the air doesn’t go back into the system. Therefore the car has to adjust fuel out to match the air.


That sounds about right. The tuner made it sound like the car would have driveability issues all the time. I have a hard time seeing that, as the adaptive system can handle +/- 25% fuel trims once they have been learned.

I guess we'll find out.

What I might do, is leave the stock bypass valve on until he gets the tuning dialed in for the new setup and then put the BOV on.

Are your still running yours, Thebigzeus? I remember you saying you removed one of you Forge parts but I couldn't remember which one it was.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Yes I am.


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## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

I have the Forge BOV on my V3 turbo. I had to file one site of it to make it fit. the tube on the intake portion of the turbo is bigger than the stock one. and I've never had an issue with my Atmospheric BOV.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> I have the Forge BOV on my V3 turbo. I had to file one site of it to make it fit. the tube on the intake portion of the turbo is bigger than the stock one. and I've never had an issue with my Atmospheric BOV.


I noticed it looked like ZZP had filed part of the intake tube around the bypass valve..... I thought that was kinda odd.

Thanks for the heads up.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Here's some pictures:
> 
> ZZP shipping a box within a box:
> 
> Inside the "smaller" box:












Nice Box!


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> View attachment 291766
> 
> 
> Nice Box!


Sexy right?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I prefer the box within a box to be a much tighter fit. You know, so you really have to fight it to get it out.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

@SlyCruze , what color spring are you using in your Forge valve?


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Sexy right?


My Cat thinks so anyways.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> My Cat thinks so anyways.


Mine too.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> @SlyCruze , what color spring are you using in your Forge valve?


Only use green


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Only use green


Ok. I'm assuming you tried the yellow spring?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Ok. I'm assuming you tried the yellow spring?


Jerry won’t let me. Begs the question though, maybe your tuner can. But in my instance there isn’t enough vacuum to let it blow off and open that valve with the higher spring. The turbo would just flutter. (Air going backwards over the blades)


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## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

JLL said:


> @SlyCruze , what color spring are you using in your Forge valve?


im currently using the yellow spring, my Tune is set to 24-25 PSI. I ran the green one on the stock turbo but since putting on the big wheel it felt like it had a hard time keeping boost from leaking


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> im currently using the yellow spring, my Tune is set to 24-25 PSI. I ran the green one on the stock turbo but since putting on the big wheel it felt like it had a hard time keeping boost from leaking


This makes sense. 24-25 PSI, Is the BNR "mild" tune for 91 octane???


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Jerry won’t let me. Begs the question though, maybe your tuner can. But in my instance there isn’t enough vacuum to let it blow off and open that valve with the higher spring. The turbo would just flutter. (Air going backwards over the blades)


Brian's a pretty smart guy when it comes to the LUJ. He just doesn't like the Forge valves. I want the sound. He says they stick and cause problems. But then again, they are piston style valves and require periodic cleaning and lubrication to function properly over time, unlike diaphragm style vales that are maintenance free until they rupture.


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## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

yeah, the "Mild" tune probably should be updated LOL. my BOV has not stick in the past, but do clean it once a while, I've had it on the car for at least 6 years now.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> yeah, the "Mild" tune probably should be updated LOL. my BOV has not stick in the past, but do clean it once a while, I've had it on the car for at least 6 years now.


That bolsters my confidence. Thanks


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Yeah mine started sticking for awhile, took it apart and cleaned and added more red grease.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: I was wondering when the generosity of my tuner was going to run out. I purchased my original tune w/ an Autocal and a complete E85 conversion kit from him totalling $1,400 and up until now he has done a total of 8 tune updates for me at no additional cost. On Wednesday night, I emailed him about the tune update(s) for my build. One tune for break-in, and a second for after that. This morning I finally received an invoice from him for $350 with an email thanking me for my business and stating that "custom tuning for a larger turbo and performance camshafts may require additional time to complete. The quoted estimate includes up to 4 additional tune revisions". 

To me that says: "I don't have a tune that's even close to what you'll need; So I'm going to make you one from scratch."

I really can't complain. I respect his time and his tuning capabilities. And I am turning my LUJ into something the GM never intended it to be.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

BNR wouldn't treat you like that. But they would take a month to get you each update. 😄


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> BNR wouldn't treat you like that. But they would take a month to get you each update. 😄


BNR doesn't charge for tune updates?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> BNR doesn't charge for tune updates?


Nope, not at all! No matter what you want. Probably why they're so far behind TBH lol. I have probably had 15+ updates over the past few years.


----------



## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

Yeah, I’ve had a bunch of tune updates as well . Everything from higher boost sensors to big wheel turbo. BNR has been really good overall. Like _bigzeus mention only down side is wait times_


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> Yeah, I’ve had a bunch of tune updates as well . Everything from higher boost sensors to big wheel turbo. BNR has been really good overall. Like _bigzeus mention only down side is wait times_


I'm happy to pay for Vermont's great and timely customer service.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I'm happy to pay for Vermont's great and timely customer service.


IMO $350 extra is a lot


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> IMO $350 extra is a lot


I don't think it's too bad for what I'm asking him to do. I asked him to make me an engine break in tune and a tune for after that. I'm assuming he has to create my tune from near scratch for the combination of E85, the V3, and ZZP'S new cams. It would be different if say, it was ZZP. I'm sure they already have base tunes made for everything they sell. So, they have a starting point to go off of and then they can make minor adjustments from there. I don't actually know though.  But, according to their website they even charge $50 for a tune update.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I don't think it's too bad for what I'm asking him to do. I asked him to make me an engine break in tune and a tune for after that. I'm assuming he has to create my tune from near scratch for the combination of E85, the V3, and ZZP'S new cams. It would be different if say, it was ZZP. I'm sure they already have base tunes made for everything they sell. So, they have a starting point to go off of and then they can make minor adjustments from there. I don't actually know though.  But, according to their website they even charge $50 for a tune update.


That makes sense after your explanation. A break in tune though, cmon! lol! 😄


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)




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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> Yeah mine started sticking for awhile, took it apart and cleaned and added more red grease.


Did you take any pictures? Maybe you can do a How-To:.

How-To: Write a Tutorial


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> BNR doesn't charge for tune updates?


Neither does Trifecta.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Neither does Trifecta.


Interesting....I just assumed most performance shops did.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Interesting....I just assumed most performance shops did.


It depends on what level tune you initially choose and whether or not the tuner specializes in your engine or not.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

You may or may not find these helpful in reassembly… They’re pretty new videos and the guy does good work it looks like.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> You may or may not find these helpful in reassembly… They’re pretty new videos and the guy does good work it looks like.


Thanks. I've seen those and they are very helpful.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: My tuner seems to do things much differently than the other companies that tune the Cruze. He asked for the base spring pressure and cracking pressure of the ZZP billet wastegate actuator that I'm using. So I emailed ZZP. They responded and I told my tuner. He responds with: "That can't be right. The cracking pressure is always greater than the base spring pressure."

So he had me measure the pressures using my Mityvac.

What ZZP *told* me:
Base Spring Pressure: 15 PSI
Cracking Pressure: "roughly 10-11 PSI"

What I *actually* measured:
Base Spring Pressure: 10 PSI
Cracking Pressure: 12 PSI

Picture Time:

My Mityvac:









The ZZP billet actuator installed on the V3:










I'm still waiting to here back from my tuner about the Forge Atmospheric Bypass Valve.
I'll update when he responds.


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## F18D4T (Sep 24, 2020)

Cracking pressure is supposed to be lower then the final spring pressure... If not they would overboost as the springs' rated pressure is supposed to be the max without a controller. The only times this might not be the case is if there is really high backpressure in the exhaust which isn't a good thing. The rating of a spring is not when it starts to open, rather the pressure in which it will ideally let enough exhaust past to maintain its' rated pressure.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

F18D4T said:


> Cracking pressure is supposed to be lower then the final spring pressure... If not they would overboost as the springs' rated pressure is supposed to be the max without a controller. The only times this might not be the case is if there is really high backpressure in the exhaust which isn't a good thing.


I was talking about *base* spring pressure, which I measured at 10 PSI (when the actuator arm started to move not attached to the wastegate).
Attached to the wastegate it started to open at 12 PSI (the cracking pressure). The wastgate didn’t fully open until around 25 PSI.


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## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

How did you chose the piston bore size ? Did you need to take it apart ? Reason I ask, I’m looking zap pistons and they offer 2 sizes


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> How did you chose the piston bore size ? Did you need to take it apart ? Reason I ask, I’m looking zap pistons and they offer 2 sizes


The stock bore size is 2.855 inch and uses 72.5mm pistons. The 2.894 inch / 73.5mm pistons are oversized for if the block needs bored. I put a bore scope down the cylinder to inspect the cylinder wall condition. It looked good so all I'll have to do is deglaze the cylinder walls before I install the pistons, which doesn't really remove much material (less that 0.001")


----------



## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks , much appreciated


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> Thanks , much appreciated


No problem


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: I did something unexpected today. Originally I had planned to keep the stock ride height, but today I bought a set of Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering springs. I figure a lower center of gravity won't hurt. Does anyone *still* sell upgraded stocks and struts for the Gen1 Cruze? @Blasirl @MP81 @Thebigzeus
And anyone else who may know the answer.

Thanks In Advance


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Suspension, Page 2



Jerry is actually ordering in some new ones, he said early adopters can get a discount. IDR which brand though, I can ask if you like.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Suspension, Page 2
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry is actually ordering in some new ones, he said early adopters can get a discount. IDR which brand though, I can ask if you like.


Thanks


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Koni makes single-adjustable Yellows for the 1st gen cars. Since you can't get B6s for the rear (you can, but Bilstein simply refuses to actually make any), these are probably what I'll end up going with in the event we need new struts/shocks.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Bilstein® - B8 Series Sport Driver or Passenger Side Monotube Shock Absorber and Strut


Chevy Cruze Diesel / Eco / LS / LT / LTZ without IDS Suspension With Sport Suspension 2014, B8 Series Sport Driver or Passenger Side Monotube Shock Absorber and Strut by Bilstein®. Quantity: 1 per Pack. Bilstein offers a range of products such as coilover kits, lowering kits, coil springs, etc...




www.carid.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Koni makes single-adjustable Yellows for the 1st gen cars. Since you can't get B6s for the rear (you can, but Bilstein simply refuses to actually make any), these are probably what I'll end up going with in the event we need new struts/shocks.


Really, I had Koni's on my Cobalt and really liked them.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Really, I had Koni's on my Cobalt and really liked them.


Yup! I just did full Koni yellow SA's on my brother's '01 Mustang GT last year.

And yeah @Blasirl , Bilstein B8s would be a great option, too.

For ours, I'd really prefer the B6s, as I don't expect to put any kind of lowering spring on the car, and would prefer not to have adjustables, but who knows...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Yup! I just did full Koni yellow SA's on my brother's '01 Mustang GT last year.
> 
> And yeah @Blasirl , Bilstein B8s would be a great option, too.
> 
> For ours, I'd really prefer the B6s, as I don't expect to put any kind of lowering spring on the car, and would prefer not to have adjustables, but who knows...


The Only Koni's I can find show there for Desiel's. Will they fit on any Gen1?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> The Only Koni's I can find show there for Desiel's. Will they fit on any Gen1?


I'm not sure why they'd only say they fit diesels. The diesels would have gotten specific shocks/struts, but I don't think they're physically any different when it comes to mounting.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'm not sure why they'd only say they fit diesels. The diesels would have gotten specific shocks/struts, but I don't think they're physically any different when it comes to mounting.


That answers my question. Thanks!

I ordered some KONI Shocks and Struts from tire rack. It looks like they have to order them from KONI.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm sure you'll post it, so I'll be anxiously awaiting how you like them, since they'll probably be what we go with.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'm sure you'll post it, so I'll be anxiously awaiting how you like them, since they'll probably be what we go with.


I'll definitely post it. I'll be interested to see how long it takes to get them. I'm going to over Memorial Day weekend to visit family. If think I can get them installed and aligned before then that's what I'll do. Otherwise it'll be in June.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I'll definitely post it. I'll be interested to see how long it takes to get them. I'm going to over Memorial Day weekend to visit family. If think I can get them installed and aligned before then that's what I'll do. Otherwise it'll be in June.


I don't remember my brother's taking very long last April or May. I think his came from Tire Rack as well, and I believe they also drop-shipped them.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I don't remember my brother's taking very long last April or May. I think his came from Tire Rack as well, and I believe they also drop-shipped them.


Drop shipping would make sense. It said they had 1 of the shocks in stock. And the other shock and the Front struts are special order.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

ADDITIONAL UPDATE: I'm starting to think I might be a little bit insane.  With the purchase of the Lowering Springs, Struts, Shocks, and Camber Bolts I've surpassed $10,000 of modifications on my Cruze, albeit most of them are not installed yet.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> ADDITIONAL UPDATE: I'm starting to think I might be a little bit insane.  With the purchase of the Lowering Springs, Struts, Shocks, and Camber Bolts I've surpassed $10,000 of modifications on my Cruze, albeit most of them are not installed yet.


WOW.... I'm getting close that number but it would include the price of the car


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I wanted to post an update for @MP81 , Tire Rack sent me an email and said that the ETA for the shocks and struts is estimated at *2-4 weeks* for arrival at their distribution facility. Their distribution facility is only 90 minutes away from my house so it'll be next day after that.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> WOW.... I'm getting close that number but it would include the price of the car


I paid more than that just for my car, I am not telling about extras where my wife might see them.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I paid more than that just for my car, I am not telling about extras where my wife might see them.


Your wife comes on Cruzetalk?


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Your wife comes on Cruzetalk?


No but almost all of the content is searchable.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> No but almost all of the content is searchable.


That's true.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I wanted to post an update for @MP81 , Tire Rack sent me an email and said that the ETA for the shocks and struts is estimated at *2-4 weeks* for arrival at their distribution facility. Their distribution facility is only 90 minutes away from my house so it'll be next day after that.


Hot ****. That might still be better timing than I'm seeing for my subframe connectors. I ordered them about a month ago and still have no update on when they might actually ship.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Hot ****. That might still be better timing than I'm seeing for my subframe connectors. I ordered them about a month ago and still have no update on when they might actually ship.


Wow.

Where did you order them from?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Wow.
> 
> Where did you order them from?


Jegs, but they're drop-shipping from Global West. GW's site does say they're experiencing delays, which is understandable, but I'd think by now I should have at least an update. I'll probably email Jegs here to see if they're heard anything, or can prod GW for an update. I ordered the GW solid body bushings as well, albeit from Summit Racing, and those were in stock and I had them within a week.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Jegs, but they're drop-shipping from Global West. GW's site does say they're experiencing delays, which is understandable, but I'd think by now I should have at least an update. I'll probably email Jegs here to see if they're heard anything, or can prod GW for an update. I ordered the GW solid body bushings as well, albeit from Summit Racing, and those were in stock and I had them within a week.


I've never ordered from Jeg's. Summit Racing is awesome though.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Curious as to why you we t with springs instead of coil over?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Curious as to why you we t with springs instead of coil over?


I'm more confident with the shock/strut/spring combination. I've never dealt with coilovers before.
In my mind, a shock/strut/spring combination seems more robust than coilovers.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Ahh.. to me they are essentially the same. Coil over just has a smaller outside diameter spring but typically similar rate. And the perch the spring rides on is adjustable for height. . I was just curious. I do like eibachs springs they actually mad the springs for the coil over setup that on my conquest.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Ahh.. to me they are essentially the same. Coil over just has a smaller outside diameter spring but typically similar rate. And the perch the spring rides on is adjustable for height. . I was just curious. I do like eibachs springs they actually mad the springs for the coil over setup that on my conquest.


That interesting to know.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Hot ****. That might still be better timing than I'm seeing for my subframe connectors. I ordered them about a month ago and still have no update on when they might actually ship.


For the Camaro?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I've never ordered from Jeg's. Summit Racing is awesome though.


Jegs is good too, similar shipping times and pricing.



Blasirl said:


> For the Camaro?


Yup! Mainly because I need to replace the body bushings, and the GW subframe connectors come with the rear two. They (GW) then sell a kit of just the remaining four bushings instead of buying all six. I might as well just do SFCs at the same time.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: Thanks to the expediency of ZZPerformance, I received my lowering springs yesterday afternoon. Too bad they'll be sitting in a box for 3-4 weeks until the other parts get here.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Welcome to the lowered life - soon anyways.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

V nice, gonna be scraping all often the place lol


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> V nice, gonna be scraping all often the place lol


I don't scrap but if I put it in the alley behind the house somebody will take it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Welcome to the lowered life - soon anyways.


Hopefully by June. I've noticed as the car has gotten more spirited, the lack of handing has become more apparent.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I'm more confident with the shock/strut/spring combination. I've never dealt with coilovers before.
> In my mind, a shock/strut/spring combination seems more robust than coilovers.


FWIW, my brother made the same decision for a similar reason on his Mustang. Yes coilovers are better, but single-adjustable Koni Yellows and the H&R Race springs is also a very good combination. He doesn't need all the adjustability - with the very real potential to screw the settings up (and it would have been even more work for me anyway). That all said, we might very well go with coilovers on his Buick, but who knows - given it gets driven in winter, that may not be ideal...

I think he's at the point now where he can probably bring the Konis up off full soft - been almost a year and good few hundred miles now, so he should be good and broken in.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> FWIW, my brother made the same decision for a similar reason on his Mustang. Yes coilovers are better, but single-adjustable Koni Yellows and the H&R Race springs is also a very good combination. He doesn't need all the adjustability - with the very real potential to screw the settings up (and it would have been even more work for me anyway). That all said, we might very well go with coilovers on his Buick, but who knows - given it gets driven in winter, that may not be ideal...
> 
> I think he's at the point now where he can probably bring the Konis up off full soft - been almost a year and good few hundred miles now, so he should be good and broken in.


Yeah. I don't really like to have to adjust things more than once or twice. I like to get it dialed in and leave it there FOREVER. 

On my Cobalt, I adjusted the dampening settings twice. Although I only had the KONI's on it for 8 months. They were the insert style dampners in front and it seemed like they never held alignment because there was always a little movement between the insert and the strut housing.

Thankfully the KONI's for the Cruze are struts and not inserts.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Yeah. I don't really like to have to adjust things more than once or twice. I like to get it dialed in and leave it there FOREVER.
> 
> On my Cobalt, I adjusted the dampening settings twice. Although I only had the KONI's on it for 8 months. They were the insert style dampners in front and it seemed like they never held alignment because there was always a little movement between the insert and the strut housing.
> 
> Thankfully the KONI's for the Cruze are struts and not inserts.


That's specifically why I didn't go with the yellows on my Cobalt.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> That's specifically why I didn't go with the yellows on my Cobalt.


Good choice.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Good choice.


I think so. The FE5 struts/shocks have held up plenty well for the past 11 years (and the struts were used when I bought them).


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I think so. The FE5 struts/shocks have held up plenty well for the past 11 years (and the struts were used when I bought them).


That's what I switched to as well as the springs. The lasted for 7 years until the car was totaled.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: To complete my handling upgrade I purchased a Front Stabilizer Bar, Rear Stabilizer Bar, and Stabilizer Links from Whiteline Performance today. The front bar and links were in stock. The rear bar was a "Pre-order" item, expected to ship next week.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> UPDATE: To complete my handling upgrade I purchased a Front Stabilizer Bar, Rear Stabilizer Bar, and Stabilizer Links from Whiteline Performance today. The front bar and links were in stock. The rear bar was a "Pre-order" item, expected to ship next week.


Were you able to get the bar for between the struts? I have been trying to for a year and cannot find it in stock anywhere.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I've seen a lot of mention of the whiteline bars cracking. what kind of warranty do they give ?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Were you able to get the bar for between the struts? I have been trying to for a year and cannot find it in stock anywhere.


The strut bars are made by Ultra Racing I believe. IMO strut bars and upgraded stabilizer bars do the same thing.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> I've seen a lot of mention of the whiteline bars cracking. what kind of warranty do they give ?


3 Years


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Strut Tower bar is a body stiffiner. To be honest I peronally dont believe they do much for a a street car. Sway bars actually work with the suspension more.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Strut Tower bar is a body stiffiner. To be honest I peronally dont believe they do much for a a street car. Swat bars actually work with the suspension more.


I stand corrected. I had upgraded sway bars on my Cobalt and loved them.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Sway bar stabilizer bar same thing or I believe ... its spring steel bar that is connected to both sides of typically the shock or control arm point so that as one side is loaded it essentially lifts on the opposing side . 
strut tower brace bars basically tie the 2 tower tops together preventing flex.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Sway bar stabilizer bar same thing or I believe ... its spring steel bar that is connected to both sides of typically the shock or control arm point so that as one side is loaded it essentially lifts on the opposing side .
> strut tower brace bars basically tie the 2 tower tops together preventing flex.


Yup. Same thing. I've just preferred the term stabilizer bar.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

STBs were literally an appearance mod on the Cobalt as they were already a very stiff car - I'm assuming the Cruze probably is similar, though I'm not entirely sure if it is.

Swaybar, Stabilizer Bar, also Anti-Sway Bar. Lotsa names! They make a huge impact on street driving, though a rear bar moreso than a front bar on a FWD car. The 1.25" rear bar on my Cobalt works wonders with the 24mm SS/SC FE5 front bar, but I would never want to go with a larger _front_ bar.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> STBs were literally an appearance mod on the Cobalt as they were already a very stiff car - I'm assuming the Cruze probably is similar, though I'm not entirely sure if it is.
> 
> Swaybar, Stabilizer Bar, also Anti-Sway Bar. Lotsa names! They make a huge impact on street driving, though a rear bar moreso than a front bar on a FWD car. The 1.25" rear bar on my Cobalt works wonders with the 24mm SS/SC FE5 front bar, but I would never want to go with a larger _front_ bar.


I had Eibach's front bar on my Cobalt.I think it was 25 or 27 mm something like that. I had TTR's 25.4mm bar in the back.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I had Eibach's front bar on my Cobalt.I think it was 25 or 27 mm something like that. I had TTR's 25.4mm bar in the back.


Yeah, I recall those and the Progressives being larger than FE5 up front, but that's why I stayed away from them - a bit too large, IMO, for the front of a FWD car. Car doesn't need any help understeering, haha.

Ahh okay, the TTR bar was the 1" bar, which was equal to the Powell street bar. I have the 1.25" Hardcore bar, and then they still have a larger 1.5" XXX Bar.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Unexpected Update: I have a problem and I need some help to fix it. I ran out of space, character wise, in my signature for all my mods.  

Not the end of the world, I know, but I'm open to ideas to rework my signature if anyone has one. I'm not the creative type.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Keep a separate tab open with the list and paste in at the end of yours posts ?? LOL


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Keep a separate tab open with the list and paste in at the end of yours posts ?? LOL


Thanks for the reply but that would take forever. Especially on my phone.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Remove the words pending installation and some of the unnecessary descript words on some of the components maybe and start one part of the list with ZZP - and ll the components leaving out the ZZP in front of each one separately


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Remove the words pending installation and some of the unnecessary descript words on some of the components maybe and start one part of the list with ZZP - and ll the components leaving out the ZZP in front of each one separately


Good idea. Thanks.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Unexpected Update: I have a problem and I need some help to fix it. I ran out of space, character wise, in my signature for all my mods.
> 
> Not the end of the world, I know, but I'm open to ideas to rework my signature if anyone has one. I'm not the creative type.


I guess it's better than my signature - ever since we switched to the new forum, I cannot edit it, because it's far longer than it can be, so I can't update anything because I'll have to make it way shorter.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> Were you able to get the bar for between the struts? I have been trying to for a year and cannot find it in stock anywhere.











Chevrolet Cruze Ultra Racing Rear Strut Bar 2 points 1.6 2008 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Chevrolet Cruze Ultra Racing Rear Strut Bar 2 points 1.6 2008 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com













Chevrolet Cruze Ultra Racing Front Strut Bar 2 points 1.6 2008 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Chevrolet Cruze Ultra Racing Front Strut Bar 2 points 1.6 2008 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Unexpected Update: I have a problem and I need some help to fix it. I ran out of space, character wise, in my signature for all my mods.
> 
> Not the end of the world, I know, but I'm open to ideas to rework my signature if anyone has one. I'm not the creative type.




*PERFORMANCE MODS: *Vermont Tuning E85 Flex Fuel Tune | Injen CAI| ZZP Intercooler & Throttle Body Spacer | 460cc Deatschwerks Fuel Injectors | Ported Intake Manifold | Mishimoto Catch Can | MSD Ignition Coil | NGK V Power Spark Plugs | ZZP Downpipe & Catted Mid Pipe | Magnaflow Stainless Catback Exhaust | ZZP Guage Pod Pillar | Aeroforce Interceptor Scan Gauge | Autometer Sport Comp II Boost Gauge.
*PENDING INSTALLATION: *Diamond 2816 Forged Pistons • Custom Pauter X Beam 4340 Billet • ZZP Big Wheel V3 Turbo w/Ported Compressor Housing & Wastegate Actuator • ZZP Stage 1 Performance Camshaft & Head Studs • ZZP 72Lb Valve Springs & Titanium Spring Retainers Rods • TTR Front Engine Mount & Rear Transmission Mount • Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs • Koni Adjustable Sport Front Struts & Rear Adjustable Sport Shocks • Whiteline 27mm Front & 22 mm Rear Stabilizer Bars • Whiteline Stabilizer Links


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> *PERFORMANCE MODS: *Vermont Tuning E85 Flex Fuel Tune | Injen CAI| ZZP Intercooler & Throttle Body Spacer | 460cc Deatschwerks Fuel Injectors | Ported Intake Manifold | Mishimoto Catch Can | MSD Ignition Coil | NGK V Power Spark Plugs | ZZP Downpipe & Catted Mid Pipe | Magnaflow Stainless Catback Exhaust | ZZP Guage Pod Pillar | Aeroforce Interceptor Scan Gauge | Autometer Sport Comp II Boost Gauge.
> *PENDING INSTALLATION: *Diamond 2816 Forged Pistons • Custom Pauter X Beam 4340 Billet • ZZP Big Wheel V3 Turbo w/Ported Compressor Housing & Wastegate Actuator • ZZP Stage 1 Performance Camshaft & Head Studs • ZZP 72Lb Valve Springs & Titanium Spring Retainers Rods • TTR Front Engine Mount & Rear Transmission Mount • Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs • Koni Adjustable Sport Front Struts & Rear Adjustable Sport Shocks • Whiteline 27mm Front & 22 mm Rear Stabilizer Bars • Whiteline Stabilizer Links


Thank you @Blasirl


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> Chevrolet Cruze Ultra Racing Rear Strut Bar 2 points 1.6 2008 | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Chevrolet Cruze Ultra Racing Rear Strut Bar 2 points 1.6 2008 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> ...


From Malaysia???


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> From Malaysia???


That's not what I bought. What is that?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I bought this:









BHF93 Sway bar - 27mm heavy duty


Engineered to 'Activate More Grip', sway bars are principally designed to reduce body roll or sway. By reducing body roll, lateral loads are spread more evenly across the tires thereby increasing cornering grip and improving outright performance. This Whiteline 27mm fixed position sway bar =...




whitelineperformance.com





And this:









BHR93 Sway bar - 22mm heavy duty


Engineered to 'Activate More Grip', sway bars are principally designed to reduce body roll or sway. By reducing body roll, lateral loads are spread more evenly across the tires thereby increasing cornering grip and improving outright performance. This Whiteline 22mm fixed position sway bar =...




whitelineperformance.com


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

The ones @Blasirl put up are the upper bars . Im not going to say they do nothing .. just that the lowers do more in my opinion.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> From Malaysia???


Shipping is free. That is the absolute cheapest I could find to.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> The ones @Blasirl put up are the upper bars . Im not going to say they do nothing .. just that the lowers do more in my opinion.


I have them both as well as the Whiteline rear sway bar. The rear sway bar is one of the top best mods for this car stock or tuned.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> The ones @Blasirl put up are the upper bars . Im not going to say they do nothing .. just that the lowers do more in my opinion.


That is what he asked for...








JLL's: The Golden Bullet


I've seen a lot of mention of the whiteline bars cracking. what kind of warranty do they give ?




www.cruzetalk.com


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Think of it this way: The Cruze is an inexpensive unibody car. I worked on a robotic welding line for vehicles earlier in my life and I can tell you many times welds are missed or even boogered up. That coupled with maybe being built on a Monday or Friday (think liquid lunch), the possibility exists for a less than idea unibody. The strut bars along with the underbody bars (still speaking about Ultra Racing bars here) basically shore up the body to stiffen it. This much stiffer platform will allow the sway bars to do an even better job at controlling body roll.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> I have them both as well as the Whiteline rear sway bar. The rear sway bar is one of the top best mods for this car stock or tuned.


The one in the trunk or underneath?


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

The lower is the best. The upper just adds to it.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> That is what he asked for...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, BNR has them back in stock now, 9 months after they said they would lol. UR-TW2-1203-Ultra Racing Front Strut Bar 2011-2016 Chevrolet

Ok enough thread hijacking.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> The one in the trunk or underneath?


Both of the ones I posted are upper. So to answer your Question, the upper.



Mr_Pat said:


> The lower is the best. The upper just adds to it.


I have a trailer hitch so the lower strut bar is way too redundant.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I was refering to lower sway bar which is tied to the suspension itself I didnt realize they made a lower strtut bar as well .. I did see what looked like a while frame system from whiteline for the cruze. and yeah your hitch <installing mine tomorrow> would basically negate any of the other rear frame ties I saw from whiteline.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yes, Ultra Racing makes a rear lower bar. We have one on our Cruze. Didn't do a ton, but I did notice a difference, so it wasn't for nothing.

Definitely isn't a rear swaybar, though.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*Back to my build thread: *

UPDATE: I picked up some goodies from FedEx.

Whiteline Stabilizer Links:










Front Whiteline Stabilizer Bar in a Bag:










The Stabilizer bar is heavier than I expected. Approximately 20lbs.

The other bits and pieces (mounts, isolators, ect) are due to arrive today from GM too.

I found out the expected availability dates of the other parts: The rear Stabilizer Bar and Rear shocks are due in next week The Front Struts are expected to be in the week after that. So, hopefully in 3 weeks I'll be installing the new suspension.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I presume it's a solid bar then, which is good for longevity.

The ZZP front bar I put on my brother's Buick a couple years ago was massively heavy.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I presume it's a solid bar then, which is good for longevity.
> 
> The ZZP front bar I put on my brother's Buick a couple years ago was massively heavy.


I'm assuming it is too. The bars I had on my Cobalt went to the scrapyard along with the car after 8 years of faithful service.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

you did the adjustable or the fixed bar ??


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> you did the adjustable or the fixed bar ??


The fixed rear bar. The front bar is fixed too.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

ahh figured maybe there was some adjustability in the links


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> ahh figured maybe there was some adjustability in the links


The front stabilizer links I bought are adjustable by about an inch. The rear end of my car doesn't have links. Just a basic fixed axel design.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> The front stabilizer links I bought are adjustable by about an inch. The rear end of my car doesn't have links. Just a basic fixed axel design.


Have you figured out how to tune the links yet? I considered them as my current front sway bar is rubbing. I definitely need to change something.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Have you figured out how to tune the links yet? I considered them as my current front sway bar is rubbing. I definitely need to change something.


Not yet, they're still in a bag.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Not yet, they're still in a bag.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Blasirl said:


>



🤭


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I thought I'd post an update since it's been a couple weeks. Yesterday I received my KONI struts and shocks. The boxes were beat up pretty good but, I opened things up and there's no damage. 

1 strut, and the shocks. The other strut is off to the side.










I have everything I need for the suspension upgrade EXCEPT for the Rear Whiteline Stabilizer Bar. I guess it's on backorder so I emailed Whiteline last night to get an ETA. I haven't heard back yet. And before you say anything Pat, I saw you got yours already.  

It's supposed to be hot and humid next week so I was going to hold off a few weeks to install anyway.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> I thought I'd post an update since it's been a couple weeks. Yesterday I received my KONI struts and shocks. The boxes were beat up pretty good but, I opened things up and there's no damage.
> 
> 1 strut, and the shocks. The other strut is off to the side.
> 
> ...


Lmao wasn't saying a word bud..         
Hopefully get yours soon... if it makes ya feel any better my coilover order has been silent since I ordered them.. no return emails when I've asked about ETA. And when I tried calling them today all I get is voicemail system even when trying to go to the operator...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Lmao wasn't saying a word bud..
> Hopefully get yours soon... if it makes ya feel any better my coilover order has been silent since I ordered them.. no return emails when I've asked about ETA. And when I tried calling them today all I get is voicemail system even when trying to go to the operator...


When I was looking for struts/shocks most of the Bilstein stuff I looked at was out of stock or not available. The Koni's I ordered were too. But Tire Rack was good in the communications department on updates.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I received a response from Whiteline about the Rear Stabilizer Bar. They said: " We have been experiencing heavy delays from US Customs to release our containers on time." They offered to give me 10% OFF my order if I could wait or otherwise they could refund my purchase entirely. They said they expect my order to ship by the end of June or Early July. I told them I could wait and they promptly refunded me 10% of the cost of the order. 

@Mr_Pat that could explain your Bilstein holdup if customs are unusually slow.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I got my coilover order refunded and now hunting a new set ,,, will be verifying they actually have them before I order this time,,,,


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

BNR was looking into carrying some new ones. Have you looked there?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> I got my coilover order refunded and now hunting a new set ,,, will be verifying they actually have them before I order this time,,,,


Try ZZP.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: I received an email today that my Whiteline Rear Stabilizer Bar has shipped. July came fast.  

I also ordered ANZO USA headlight and tailight assemblies.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> UPDATE: I received an email today that my Whiteline Rear Stabilizer Bar has shipped. July came fast.
> 
> I also ordered ANZO USA headlight and tailight assemblies.


You’re gonna be able to cut turns like Jeff Gordon soon on the way to the grocery store!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> You’re gonna be able to cut turns like Jeff Gordon soon on the way to the grocery store!


That's the idea. I loved that about my Cobalt.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Forgot to post merchandising pictures.....

I'll take more pictures once I get everything installed. I'm not sure what to tackle first, Suspension or Lighting? It's all going to arrive this week.

Headlight Housings:










Tailight Assemblies:










Morimoto HID Kit 6000K (low beams):










High Beam Replacement Bulbs:


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Forgot to post merchandising pictures.....
> 
> I'll take more pictures once I get everything installed. I'm not sure what to tackle first, Suspension or Lighting? It's all going to arrive this week.
> 
> ...


I was moments away from buying the headlamps. I still am waffling though.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I was moments away from buying the headlamps. I still am waffling though.


I've been seeing your posts in the searches I've been doing.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'd be curious what kind of pattern those put out.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'd be curious what kind of pattern those put out.


I'll take pictures. They're one of the higher priced halogen projector housings "designed and engineered in Southern California"; However, I'm not sure that necessarily translates to higher quality, but I'm hoping it does.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

UPDATE: I assembled my new strut assemblies.
All the components are new. KONI Sport Strut, Eibach Pro-Line Spring, GM Top Mount, GM Dust Cover, GM Lower Isolated. Surprisingly I discovered that I probably wouldn't have needed to use a spring compressor, but I did anyway. I only had to compress them about a 1/2" to get the top plate on and I could do that with my hands with the Eibach springs.  

Finished Assembly:


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

JLL said:


> UPDATE: I assembled my new strut assemblies.
> All the components are new. KONI Sport Strut, Eibach Pro-Line Spring, GM Top Mount, GM Dust Cover, GM Lower Isolated. Surprisingly I discovered that I probably wouldn't have needed to use a spring compressor, but I did anyway. I only had to compress them about a 1/2" to get the top plate on and I could do that with my hands with the Eibach springs.
> 
> Finished Assembly:
> ...


Sweet get them bad boys on and post before and after pics and measurements!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Murphsox said:


> Sweet get them bad boys on and post before and after pics and measurements!


I'll get things installed next week. The weather is supposed to be better (less humid). Plus I just ordered a few more things (bolts, nuts) for installation. I figured it'll be easier if I just use all new installation hardware, instead of re-using things. That way if I happen to snap a bolt with my impact upon disassembly it's no big deal.

If I remember correctly, the ride height will take a couple weeks to settle into it's final position.

I'll take measurements and pics before and after things settle.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Them is some sexy looking suspension parts sir.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Them is some sexy looking suspension parts sir.


Thank you. The yellow really goes well with the black. 

However, give it a winter or two and they'll look like . The glossy yellow paint that KONI uses isn't well known for it's durability.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Tape a cover over the shaft and repaint them while they are still out and new..


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

JLL said:


> Thank you. The yellow really goes well with the black.
> 
> However, give it a winter or two and they'll look like . The glossy yellow paint that KONI uses isn't well known for it's durability.


also clear vinyl goes a long way, i did the Fox suspension bits on my truck and it slowed the corrosion way down


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Murphsox said:


> also clear vinyl goes a long way, i did the Fox suspension bits on my truck and it slowed the corrosion way down


I don't think that would help. KONI's yellow paint like to peel. It may be the primer that they use if that's separate from the paint.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

All of the shock companies use a very thing layer of paint. Bilsteins holds up fairly well but is still pretty thin.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Today was Christmas in June:










Top Box: HID kit and H1 Bulbs.

Middle Box: Headlights Assemblies and TONS packing material. 

Bottom Box: Tailight Assemblies


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Watching for pics.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Watching for pics.


What kind of pics are you watching for?


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> What kind of pics are you watching for?


Install probably. We been seeing all these parts and no Cruze time


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Install probably. We been seeing all these parts and no Cruze time


That's because my office is FULL of parts. I keep getting sidetracked for the install.  

Next week I'm hoping to get the Lighting and the Suspension done by the end of next week.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

LOL i'm hardly one to say aything as far as pile of parts needing to go on the car. With any luck I get to install coilovers and swaybars tonight at least rear bar for the moment . As far as pics im waiting for installed, bits


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> All of the shock companies use a very thing layer of paint. Bilsteins holds up fairly well but is still pretty thin.


The paint on my brother's Koni yellow front struts was _just_ thick enough to where it made for a very...tight installation onto the spindles. Had to run a scour pad on those surfaces to have a chance at it actually fitting.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> The paint on my brother's Koni yellow front struts was _just_ thick enough to where it made for a very...tight installation onto the spindles. Had to run a scour pad on those surfaces to have a chance at it actually fitting.


Interesting. I'll see how the install goes. My schedule for next week filled un FAST.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*Arriving Soon*: WHEELS...


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Awesome..


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Awesome..


I looked at pictures of lowered Cruze's on 16's and they made me gag.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

LOL part of me wanted to step the rim size up to 19 but then I remembered the roads I drive on.. I'll be lucky if i dont kill one of the 18's already on the car..


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> LOL part of me wanted to step the rim size up to 19 but then I remembered the roads I drive on.. I'll be lucky if i dont kill one of the 18's already on the car..


We saw it all the time. The tires you have now are even a 45 series aren't they?


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

im currently on stock size .. 225 45 18 the tires that were on the rims were 215 55 18 they filled the wheel well and only put my speedo about 2 mph off @ 1.3 inches taller diameter


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> im currently on stock size .. 225 45 18 the tires that were on the rims were 215 55 18 they filled the wheel well and only put my speedo about 2 mph off @ 1.3 inches taller diameter


215/55R18 is an ODD size or at least it was when I was in the tire business.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> 215/55R18 is an ODD size or at least it was when I was in the tire business.


I can honestly say I have _never_ heard of a car running that size. That's extremely skinny/tall for an 18.

I'll bet it looks similar to the goofy-ass tire size the AWD Challengers run: a 235/55R19. They look absolutely silly on the car because of how tall and not-wide they are.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

its from a buick encore .. LOL thats what the rims were on prior to me buying them..


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> its from a buick encore .. LOL thats what the rims were on prior to me buying them..


That explains it.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It sure does. Odd nonetheless that's what they went with, but I'm sure it was partly for fuel economy that they went with a tire so narrow.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

TODAY I installed the HID bulbs and Upgraded H1 bulbs into my projector housings. I'm not gonna lie, it was kind of a B****. In my head, I imagined it would take 15 minutes. Instead, it took an HOUR. 

PLUS, with the way the assemblies are designed they are going to have to removed from the car to change bulbs.

HOWEVER, that being said, these are the best quaility aftermarket projector headlights I've ever seen. They're also one of the more expensive options out there.

Finished Product, Not installed of course.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

LOL now ya just gotta get them on the car


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> LOL now ya just gotta get them on the car


Hopefully Wednesday. I Still have to figure out where to mount the ballasts and the best way to route the HD Relay Harness.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CRUZE TIME 









@Mr_Pat @Thebigzeus @Murphsox @MP81


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ah, yes, the pleasant experience that is removing the outer taillights, haha.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Lol taillights are easy.. now that I have had them in and out several times.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I mean, they're not hard, just annoying to try and get the ball studs out (the towel trick helps a lot). My Cobalt has three or four nuts that hold the lights in (and it sounds like the Gen 2 sedans do, as well).


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Trim tools work magic.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

The install was pretty strait forward. The outer lights came out with a couple small pry bars wrapped in rags. I tried my trim tools but they didn't have the oomph required. I don't think they're ever been out since they were installed 6 years ago.

The inner lights were fairly straight forward too. EXCEPT, the electrical connectors on the new lights would not securely seat into the electrical connectors on the car, and kept falling out when closing the trunk lid. I expect this is why people hack up their wiring harnesses. However, I don't like hacking anything up that I don't have too. So, I disassembled both sets of electrical connectors and installed the pins of the new lights into factory electrical connectors. Worked like a charm!

Here's the results of my afternoon of labor in indirect sunlight. I'll post a night picture soon. Did I mention the new tailights are smoked?


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

so do these have the ability to be brake lights as well or were they just straight marker lights on the back ?? 
Looks good either way not as light colored as the pic of them I have seen before


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> so do these have the ability to be brake lights as well or were they just straight marker lights on the back ??
> Looks good either way not as light colored as the pic of them I have seen before


I think that marketing picture was made lighter so you could see the bulbs/light bars/less better.

The inner lights are marker lights only. I'm ok with that.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Waiting to see some night pics of them lit up


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Dusk picture with lights on:


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

NICCCEEEE


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> NICCCEEEE


Thank you.. I'm very happy with them.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Those look great! How bright are the lights?

Another member (nearby here - I bought the second set of stock lights for the Cruze, the ones that I had blacked out and are on the car now from him) had similar lights and...you can barely tell they're working. But those look similar, but a bit different and much brighter.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Those look great! How bright are the lights?
> 
> Another member (nearby here - I bought the second set of stock lights for the Cruze, the ones that I had blacked out and are on the car now from him) had similar lights and...you can barely tell they're working. But those look similar, but a bit different and much brighter.


Surprising, I think they're on par with the stock lights in terms of brightness even though the lenses are smoked. The lights are stamped DOT approved on the housings.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Mine seem to be hard to see during the day until you hit the brakes ,


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Surprising, I think they're on par with the stock lights in terms of brightness even though the lenses are smoked. The lights are stamped DOT approved on the housings.


Yeah, @Jondaytona is who sold me the lights, and I remember he mentioned that when we were BSing in the parking lot when we met up to grab the lights. I think I actually saw his car a month or so ago (if it wasn't him - it was definitely his car). If I recall, he showed me them on and...you could barely tell they were on.

I'm glad to hear yours don't have that issue.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Mine seem to be hard to see during the day until you hit the brakes ,


What type of lighting do you have inside?


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

They are prewired LED


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Probably just between the smoked lense and all the red surrounding it  <The car>


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Probably just between the smoked lense and all the red surrounding it <The car>


Do you have smoked lenses too?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Do you have smoked lenses too?


It really seems to _really _vary how bright those LEDs actually are in those style of lights, based on my aforementioned experience and your experience with them.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

yeah I believe they are a smoked lenses anyway.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

More Cruze Time










All that to take out 6 hidden bolts.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yep...remember the two very _non_-hidden bolts it took to get each Cobalt headlight out?

My brother's Buick and Mustang don't even require bolts at all. So goddamn easy.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Yep...remember the two very _non_-hidden bolts it took to get each Cobalt headlight out?
> 
> My brother's Buick and Mustang don't even require bolts at all. So goddamn easy.


I don't remember having to take the bumper off on the Cobalt. I think your supposed too though.


----------



## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

i remember doing that on mine, its a big job for head lights. plus those stupid tabs on the side of the bumper !


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I don't remember having to take the bumper off on the Cobalt. I think your supposed too though.


Nope, you don't have to. Just the two bolts that hold each light into the car up top and the come right out. Then four more bolts and the buckets come out. I believe the headlights had to come out to get to the bolts/bracket that hold the bumper to the fenders.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I got the headlights installed and functioning the way I want it. Obviously, I still have to put the bumper on. It took 6 hours to get this far. 1.5 hours of disassembly and installing the new housings. The rest of the time was spent on wiring, diagnostics, multiple parts runs, and a 10 minute lunch. 😆

KEY ON:










HID Low Beam:











Halogen High Beam:


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> i remember doing that on mine, its a big job for head lights. plus those stupid tabs on the side of the bumper !


The tabs for me are never an issue. Just pull SLOW and firm.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> The tabs for me are never an issue. Just pull SLOW and firm.


They kicked my ass


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> They kicked my ass


I guess each car is different. This is my second time removing the bumper.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I had a couple of ours break (on the bumper side). Gorilla tape to the rescue!


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I guess each car is different. This is my second time removing the bumper.


I have literally put off an aftermarket intercooler because of removing the bumper and such. Not kidding lol.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I have literally put off an aftermarket intercooler because of removing the bumper and such. Not kidding lol.


Ouch man.

The bumper is the easy part of an aftermarket Intercooler installation.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Got the bumper back on.

This is running with remote start.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Looks great! Will be interested to see how the pattern ends up looking.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Looks great! Will be interested to see how the pattern ends up looking.


I still have to adjust them. I might do that tonight if it doesn't rain.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Got the bumper back on.
> 
> This is running with remote start.
> 
> View attachment 292804


Cleannnnnnn!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Cleannnnnnn!


IMO they're worth every penny.


----------



## 15CruzeTD (Oct 23, 2019)

Looks great. The more times you take the bumper off the faster you can do it and I speak from experience! 😃


----------



## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

Nice. I have the same ones and I never use the halogen high beams. I installed flood lights in my grill on an aux switch that I use for high beam


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

AutumnCruzeRS said:


> Nice. I have the same ones and I never use the halogen high beams. I installed flood lights in my grill on an aux switch that I use for high beam


I installed some new high beam halogen bulbs. I live in the city and don't often use my high beams.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> All of the shock companies use a very thing layer of paint. Bilsteins holds up fairly well but is still pretty thin.


Mine are still looking pretty good. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *Arriving Soon*: WHEELS...


I need your budget!


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I looked at pictures of lowered Cruze's on 16's and they made me gag.


Well, if you saw mine, they were snow tires you know.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Well, if you saw mine, they were snow tires you know.


I'm keeping my stock wheels for winter.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I put my RF strut in today. It started to rain so I couldn't finish the other one. I wasn't expecting to get Cruze time today so, unfortunately I forgot to take the stock ride height measurements.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

You just have to jack up the knuckle to get it in, I had to on my fully stock setup.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I got the second strut in today. I stabilizer links are still off because I want to figure out how to get the front sway bar out. Here's the situation, I can get the front bolts out, no problem. The rear bolts are tucked between the body and the subframe with about an inch in between. I ordered a few new bolts and they're not very long, 1.5" at most. So here's my idea, I'm thinking I can loosen the 2 rear subframe bolts by about an inch with my impact and get to the rear bolts. For those of you who don't know I'm doing this with a full set of jack stands and a floor jack.

Thoughts?
@MP81 @Thebigzeus @Blasirl @jblackburn @Mr_Pat @Murphsox


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Dropping the rear of the subframe is a pretty common method. Suggested on the Cobalt and my brother's Buick (neither of which I needed to drop), and necessary on the Cavalier.

You're probably going to want some pinch flange adapters for your jackstands, and have those supporting the car so that the subframe has the ability to drop.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Dropping the rear of the subframe is a pretty common method. Suggested on the Cobalt and my brother's Buick (neither of which I needed to drop), and necessary on the Cavalier.
> 
> You're probably going to want some pinch flange adapters for your jackstands, and have those supporting the car so that the subframe has the ability to drop.


I'm on the pinch welds without adapters. 

I didn't know they made adapters.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, I think these might be what I have: Amazon.com: Seven Sparta Jack Pad Adapter for Jack Stand Universal Rubber Slotted Frame Rail Pinch Welds Protector(4Pack): Automotive


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I was just looking at those. I ordered some.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Cool - I've never actually used them, haha, but I genuinely _hate_ using pinch flanges, though it's the only real way to jack up the Cruze or my Volt. My Volt will be interesting when I go to install the rear swaybar...I'm not entirely sure where my stands are going to go so I can drop the torsion beam down to pull the springs out. There are only cutouts for the jack in the side ground effects, and almost the entire underbody is covered for aero, so...it's gonna be interesting


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Cool - I've never actually used them, haha, but I genuinely _hate_ using pinch flanges, though it's the only real way to jack up the Cruze or my Volt. My Volt will be interesting when I go to install the rear swaybar...I'm not entirely sure where my stands are going to go so I can drop the torsion beam down to pull the springs out. There are only cutouts for the jack in the side ground effects, and almost the entire underbody is covered for aero, so...it's gonna be interesting


The pinch welds were where we lifted 90% of *cars *when I worked in a shop.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> The pinch welds were where we lifted 90% of *cars *when I worked in a shop.


Oh, no doubt - most are designed to be lifted there, and I know full-well how strong the joint is, as I've worked in body engineering since I got out of college. But I've also seen so many that are just folded right over from being lifted improperly (or in the wrong spot - jacking spots are specifically designed for jacking, so, you know, they _don't_ do that), or, in cases like my brother's Buick, rusted to **** and just crunches up, that I prefer to jack up...anywhere else if possible. On the Buick, I jack up on the rear of the subframe (right by the bushings/bolts) in front, or the underbody rails (which are extremely strong) out back. The Cobalt is a magical vehicle and actually has four dedicated jacking pads...I wish all cars had that. The Camaro is easy - it has an enormous subframe that comes **** near halfway back in the car, so that's an easy spot to jack/support for the front, and the rear axle is great for the rear.

But on cars like the Cruze or Volt, that really is not possible, so I use a slotted adapter on my jack to straddle the pinch flange and keep it from bending. I'd prefer to buy like...three more...so I can have those on hand if I need to use my buddy's 2-post, as I really don't like them being lifted without the slot.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

https://www.amazon.com/2-Pack-Rubber-Jack-Pads-Slotted/dp/B06WRMSHP2/ref=asc_df_B06WRMSHP2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312142020868&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5631822189665314816&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021455&hvtargid=pla-568805582093&psc=1


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> I got the second strut in today. I stabilizer links are still off because I want to figure out how to get the front sway bar out. Here's the situation, I can get the front bolts out, no problem. The rear bolts are tucked between the body and the subframe with about an inch in between. I ordered a few new bolts and they're not very long, 1.5" at most. So here's my idea, I'm thinking I can loosen the 2 rear subframe bolts by about an inch with my impact and get to the rear bolts. For those of you who don't know I'm doing this with a full set of jack stands and a floor jack.
> 
> Thoughts?
> @MP81 @Thebigzeus @Blasirl @jblackburn @Mr_Pat @Murphsox


I havent looked at all the bits pieces that may be in the way. I saw mention of removing the steering in the Haynes page you had a pic of .. but I could see loosening the fronts enough to allow some movement then the rear bolts and slowly let the jack down enough to get to the bolts with a gear wrench or even standard open/box Ill try and get a better look at the situation before I leave work tomorrow


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I put the car on the ground so it wouldn't fall off the stands during last nights storms. So far I'm pleased.

Eibach Springs installed in front there's 1/2" (1 finger width) fender gap at apex of tire on both sides. I wish I would have taken before measurements.










The *stock* springs are still on the rear:


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And it's probably gonna drop another 1/4-1/2" once it settles.

When I put in my Hotchkis 2" drop springs in my Camaro it...didn't get any lower.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> And it's probably gonna drop another 1/4-1/2" once it settles.
> 
> When I put in my Hotchkis 2" drop springs in my Camaro it...didn't get any lower.


It's gotta be close to the bump stops.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

On yours? Very likely. I'm surprised it dropped it that far.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Yeah. The bump stops are 2" long. I'm surprised it dropped that much too. I would have trimmed the bump stops if I knew.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm surprised it didn't come with new ones with it being that drastic.

Are these Sportlines or the Pro-kit?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'm surprised it didn't come with new ones with it being that drastic.
> 
> Are these Sportlines or the Pro-kit?


The only spring Eibach makes for Cruze is the Pro-Kit. I had Sportlines on my Cobalt and the directions that came with it had me cut the bumpstops. According to Eibach the *average *drop for the Pro-Kit is 1.2" for the Cruze with the range being 1.0"-1.5".


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

That thing is looking lowwwwwwww. Looks good though


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> The only spring Eibach makes for Cruze is the Pro-Kit. I had Sportlines on my Cobalt and the directions that came with it had me cut the bumpstops. According to Eibach the *average *drop for the Pro-Kit is 1.2" for the Cruze with the range being 1.0"-1.5".


Yeah, the Pro-Kit was never a huge drop - more focus on handling with a decent drop rather than only on the drop of the Sportlines...maybe it is only 1.5", but it just seems like more.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Murphsox said:


> That thing is looking lowwwwwwww. Looks good though


Thanks. I'm hoping that I still have somewhat of a rake once I get the rear springs in.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Im setting mine to have a slight rake.. currently i think the rear is only maybe 1/2 inch lower than it was stock. planning on dropping at least another half out of it . and I need to reset the shock itself .. I think Im to close to full extension on the shock t the moment .. lol rear end feels kind of springy . And how soon can you change the wheels


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> And how soon can you change the wheels


Are you asking me?


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Im wanting to see what ya got.. poor lowered cruze with 16's


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Im wanting to see what ya got.. poor lowered cruze with 16's


In time.
16's are awesome for ride comfort and winter.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Today I had some more Cruze Time. Had to cut it short because I have to take my wife to get her hair done.

Ahhh! It's all gone.










Shocks and Springs:










Koni Shocks are a PITA to adjust. I'll start with 2 half turns from full soft. There are 5 half turns all together.

Tomorrow all I have to do is put in the new Stabilizer bars.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Well you need to start with full soft for a good while to break them in, _then_ you can adjust them up. My brother is still on full-soft on his Mustang, and I installed those last year. He might be able to firm his up though.

His are super easy: all adjustment is on top of the strut/shock. I presume the Cruze has the shock adjustment down below?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Well you need to start with full soft for a good while to break them in, _then_ you can adjust them up. My brother is still on full-soft on his Mustang, and I installed those last year. He might be able to firm his up though.
> 
> His are super easy: all adjustment is on top of the strut/shock. I presume the Cruze has the shock adjustment down below?


The adjustment for the struts is on top. The shocks have a be *fully* compressed and the held there while rotating the rod. I've already adjusted them so I'll see how it goes at 2 half turns over soft. They're weren't any instructions saying not to adjust them.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

My brother's said that somewhere. Been a year so I don't remember where.

Well that's a pain. His rear shocks have the adjustments right on top, in the trunk. A little annoying to get to, since you have to pull the carpet sides of the trunk out, but overall, not too bad.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> My brother's said that somewhere. Been a year so I don't remember where.
> 
> Well that's a pain. His rear shocks have the adjustments right on top, in the trunk. A little annoying to get to, since you have to pull the carpet sides of the trunk out, but overall, not too bad.


The shocks in the Cruze are all external. The top goes into the rear quarter panel but doesn't actually enter the trunk.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> The shocks in the Cruze are all external. The top goes into the rear quarter panel but doesn't actually enter the trunk.


Yeah, same as the Cobalt.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> The shocks in the Cruze are all external. The top goes into the rear quarter panel but doesn't actually enter the trunk.


Also a pain with the ksports. I still need to drop my rears back down to put the adjusters in..as I forgot to before I bolted them in. Tho strange the adjustment being to turn the shock rod itself. Are the fronts the same way?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Also a pain with the ksports. I still need to drop my rears back down to put the adjusters in..as I forgot to before I bolted them in. Tho strange the adjustment being to turn the shock rod itself. Are the fronts the same way?


The way KONI does it with the Cruze shocks is there is an adjustable valve body internally in the bottom end of the shock. By compressing the rod to it lowest position it engages that valve body and then the rod is used as a know.

With the struts they are adjustable with a knob on the top of the strut.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

ahhhh ok I definately like your rears better.. fairly certain I could unbolt the bottom and push it up and turn it vs having to drop the top to make adjustments and my fronts are the same as yours top adjustment via a allen key with a knob on it which I am leaving them in so nothing can get inside them ..


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I got the rear Whiteline Stabilizer Bar on. For something that attaches with 2 bolts the installation is a little more difficult than it looks.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Upside down I think buddy.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

It's supposed to follow the contour of the axel, isn't it?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

The sticker is right side up if you zoom into the picture.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I installed mine the same way at first.. it would drag the ground once you put the car back on its wheels.. if you look at the end it has a bend near the mount..


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> I installed mine the same way at first.. it would drag the ground once you put the car back on its wheels.. if you look at the end it has a bend near the mount..
> View attachment 292971


Interesting. Looks like I need to flip it around. Hopefully the loctite hasn't set yet.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

So it bends slightly upward, Right @Mr_Pat ? I'll have to take a look but I think that's how I have it.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, you'll want to flip it. It works either way, but I ran into the same issue on my brother's Mustang.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I think the way it is currently set in yours it would be nearly dragging on the ground.. I could be mistaken . But makes sense to me that you would want it as close to the axle as possible .. now my current option is that this bar doesn't do anything because the rears aren't independent of one another and the center of the bar isn't attached to anything to act as a pivot point like a normal sway bar is.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> I think the way it is currently set in yours it would be nearly dragging on the ground.. I could be mistaken . But makes sense to me that you would want it as close to the axle as possible .. now my current option is that this bar doesn't do anything because the rears aren't independent of one another and the center of the bar isn't attached to anything to act as a pivot point like a normal sway bar is.


My Cobalt had a solid rear axel and an additional Stabilizer Bar did wonders for it.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Yeah I was gonna say, that is LOW low to the ground. Rear end looking good though. If you know what I mean...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Dear @MP81 , @Thebigzeus , and @Mr_Pat 

I really hate re-doing things. But your right, so I'm flipping it.

Love,
JLL


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> My Cobalt had a solid rear axel and an additional Stabilizer Bar did wonders for it.


Cobalt rear bar free hang like this as well??


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> Dear @MP81 , @Thebigzeus , and @Mr_Pat
> 
> I really hate re-doing things. But your right, so I'm flipping it.
> 
> ...


LMAO...          

Lol you know we love you too. That's why we told ya 

And on a side note knock the spring catch/bat mount loose out of the pocket to start your bolt to avoid crossthread.. once you got it part way into that bushing you can pull down on the bar to reseat the sway bar mount..


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Dear @MP81 , @Thebigzeus , and @Mr_Pat
> 
> I really hate re-doing things. But your right, so I'm flipping it.
> 
> ...


At least you dont have to install a water pump 3 times...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> LMAO...
> 
> Lol you know we love you too. That's why we told ya
> 
> And on a side note knock the spring catch/bat mount loose out of the pocket to start your bolt to avoid crossthread.. once you got it part way into that bushing you can pull down on the bar to reseat the sway bar mount..


Yeah, about that....

I stripped out one of the threaded bosses. The loctite set up so I had to take the bolts out with my impact. Impact + Aluminum Boss = BAD.

So, I'm waiting on Whiteline to send me a replacement.

No upgraded stabilizer bars this month.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Use lighter grade loctite. I didn't bother using any. So far mine seem to be good.. I'll check them this weekend to see.. I torqued to one uggA.. lol. Next time a propane torch to warm the bolt and get some WD or acetone down in the hole to break the loctite down. I assume your mounts had through holes like mine did anyway. Another idea instead of loctite. Silicone its soft and would peel away under the pressure of a wrench but would cause enough interference the bolt cant back out.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> It's supposed to follow the contour of the axel, isn't it?


A little late to the party, but here is mine:


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> A little late to the party, but here is mine:


You, sir also have a nice rear end.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> You, sir also have a nice rear end.


Wait, What, am I posting on the wrong forum again!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Use lighter grade loctite. I didn't bother using any. So far mine seem to be good.. I'll check them this weekend to see.. I torqued to one uggA.. lol. Next time a propane torch to warm the bolt and get some WD or acetone down in the hole to break the loctite down. I assume your mounts had through holes like mine did anyway. Another idea instead of loctite. Silicone its soft and would peel away under the pressure of a wrench but would cause enough interference the bolt cant back out.


It turns out Whiteline doesn't just sell the threaded bosses. I guess I have to see if I can salvage the threads. If not I'll just drill and tap a new thread size with a comparable bolt.

Not gonna happen this week though.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Currently wishing I didnt have mine installed I could turn a new one on the Lathe at work for ya. Think you can get me dimensions ?? Diameters at the full and then the step as well as the length of the step.. and then thread /bolt size as well as overall length .


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Currently wishing I didnt have mine installed I could turn a new one on the Lathe at work for ya. Think you can get me dimensions ?? Diameters at the full and then the step as well as the length of the step.. and then thread /bolt size as well as overall length .


Absolutely Pat!

Thank you!

I'll PM you when I have everything. Whiteline gave me some of the information but it's metric. Would you want me to convert to standard measurements?


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Either doesnt matter to me .. I can do either


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> Cobalt rear bar free hang like this as well??


Bolts right to the torsion beam. It's _suuuuuper_ easy. But makes an insane impact - especially my 1.25" bar out back...just make sure you have grippy tires up front!


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I guess for some reason I dont see the physics of how it would work// Im used to your 2 outer points with a common pivot So that one side acts as a lever to plant the wheels to the same plane. AKA when one side is compressed from the outer side of a turn it lifts on the opposite side drawing the body weight downward on the inside


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Basically eliminates the flex between each side - the swaybar allows for your theory to happen.

It makes an _enormous_ difference. My Cobalt will slide the ass out in turns, rather that understeering and pushing through them.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I got the Koni Sport (aka yellows) Struts and Shocks, Eibach Springs, and Whiteline Stabilizer links in. 

Whiteline Stabilizer Link:









Hard so see in the picture, about 1/2" fender gap on top in front and 3/4" on top in rear:


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I have an update. I went to dinner with a friend tonight and drove an 11 mile round trip. I was astonished by the reduction in body roll. I'm sure it's a combination of the lower center of gravity, the stiffer rebound of the new shocks & struts, and the metal stabilizer links: However, I definitely wasn't expecting the vast improvement in handling without the upgraded stabilizer bars installed.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oh, it's major. Then the swaybars will be another enormous improvement.

But ultimately, it'll all be tied together once you get some really sticky tires.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> But ultimately, it'll all be tied together once you get some really sticky tires.


Arriving on Monday:


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I need to step away from the computer for a few minutes them is some sexy freakin wheelz


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> I need to step away from the computer for a few minutes them is some sexy freakin wheelz


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And what kind of super sticky summer tire are you planning to run on those delicious wheels?


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

JLL said:


> Arriving on Monday:
> 
> View attachment 293006


Only Quoting you to see these sexy wheels again. So HAWT


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> And what kind of super sticky summer tire are you planning to run on those delicious wheels?


They're 18" x 8.5". Some I'm gonna go with 245/40R18. I go in for an alignment on Monday so I'll take some measurements when it's on the alignment rack.
As I've mentioned before I'm a Goodyear guy having worked for them 10 years, plus they give me a hefty discount. 

I know there are other good options out there.

I actually don't like summer only tires because they are normally very soft. I was thinking maybe the Goodyear Eagle Exhilarate. I has Dunlop Direzza Star Specs (Also made by Goodyear FYI) on my Cobalt for 2 summers. They were great but they were so soft that at the end of 2 summers they were very irregularly worn.

I'm wanting something that will last 3-4 summers.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hmm, I've had Direzza ZII's on my Cobalt for...this is the 8th year now. They first went on in 2014.

They're by far the best tire I've ever driven on, and while they're not good in heavier rain anymore due to the treadwear, I've never driven on a more confident tire in the rain due to the design - the rain channels had large tread paths that just shot the rain out the side. I was disappointed when they closed those off on the ZIII to chase after the extra tiny bit of performance the RE-71R gives you, albeit with far reduced hydroplaning resistance. 

My ZIIs have that rain channel all but closed up now too and thus I'm not convinced I'll like the ZIIIs as much...but then again, I basically try and not drive the car in the rain so I don't have to wash it, so it might not be an issue anyway, though sometimes it does happen, because Michigan.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Another update: Monday the Cruze goes in for an alignment. Today I drove a 100 mile round trip to my parents house for a family gathering. Rides better than I expected. The ride is more firm and grounded. I can definitely feel the road more but not in a teeth shattering way. I know it sounds cliché but it really is like driving a different car. Also it looks like things have settled. There is a slight rake, which I like.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Another update: Monday the Cruze goes in for an alignment. Today I drove a 100 mile round trip to my parents house for a family gathering. Rides better than I expected. The ride is more firm and grounded. I can definitely feel the road more but not in a teeth shattering way. I know it sounds cliché but it really is like driving a different car. Also it looks like things have settled. There is a slight rake, which I like.


They will probably settle some more over the next year or so.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> They will probably settle some more over the next year or so.


I've heard that a higher quality spring itself doesn't actually settle, but that it's the other suspension components that changes with time.

I'm not sure if that's true or not.
I'm not even sure Eibach is considered a high quality spring. They're just the only brand I have any experience with.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I've heard that a higher quality spring itself doesn't actually settle, but that it's the other suspension components that changes with time.
> 
> I'm not sure if that's true or not.
> I'm not even sure Eibach is considered a high quality spring. They're just the only brand I have any experience with.


It will be a combination of all the components. Once you disturb one thing, process starts over.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> It will be a combination of all the components. Once you disturb one thing, process starts over.


I know you had mentioned that you've developed issues with some rubbing. Do you know, is that because of the diameter or the width of your tires?


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I know you had mentioned that you've developed issues with some rubbing. Do you know, is that because of the diameter or the width of your tires?


It also happens with my snow tires, so while I am sure it is possible it may have something to do with it, if it does it is only when I turn.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> It also happens with my snow tires, so while I am sure it is possible it may have something to do with it, if it does it is only when I turn.


I would it would be the diameter then, maybe in combination with excess camber?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Pretty much every spring is going to settle - the higher quality ones just don't sag over time. Eibach Sportlines are infamous for sagging after a number of years.

My factory springs in my '81 were sagging so bad that when I put in my 2" Hotchkis drop springs front and rear, the car may very well have gone _up_. And apparently that is not at all an uncommon occurrence on those cars.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I would it would be the diameter then, maybe in combination with excess camber?


Diameter is very close to 26.1" on both summer and winter tires. As for the camber, could be and that is why I am going to install the camber bolts I bought in 2014.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I'm not dropped as low as you are yet but I did have those over size tires on a bit ago. given just over height by 1.3 inches I think it was. Have you been able to spot the rub mark itself ?? I just ran out and set mine full lock both directions and given the height my bet would be the inner fender liner at the back side of the wheel well. based on the curve of the liner you might be making contact there.. Again I'm nowhere near as low as you are but my tire is very close at that point at my current height .


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

The car got aligned today and it drives GREAT!

It needed some positive camber and toe adjustments.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> The car got aligned today and it drives GREAT!
> 
> It needed some positive camber and toe adjustments.


What’d that run ya?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> What’d that run ya?


I bought one of Goodyear's 3 year alignment packages when I bought the tires in October so it was no charge. The 3 year alignment package cost me $150 at the time. I think normally it's $200. Basically it's free alignments for 3 years from the date of purchase.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Huh I will have to remember that for tires for next year.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I went to FEDEX and picked up my wheels today. 

No pictures yet. They are still individually boxed inside 2 bigger boxes.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I do not recommend picking up 2 or 3 of those boxes with your back (instead of your legs) and then pivoting (at your back) while doing so. You might throw your back out.

And if you do that and are in so much pain you _can't drive the vehicle_, definitely don't go into your basement and grab all four tires and bring those up and put those in the car, then go down, move said wheels and tires into the shop, then move the newly mounted wheel-tire-assemblies into the car and then _definitely_ don't go grab your jack and swap said wheels and tires onto the car, and then move the other (heavier) wheels and tires into the basement.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I do not recommend picking up 2 or 3 of those boxes with your back (instead of your legs) and then pivoting (at your back) while doing so. You might throw your back out.
> 
> And if you do that and are in so much pain you _can't drive the vehicle_, definitely don't go into your basement and grab all four tires and bring those up and put those in the car, then go down, move said wheels and tires into the shop, then move the newly mounted wheel-tire-assemblies into the car and then _definitely_ don't go grab your jack and swap said wheels and tires onto the car, and then move the other (heavier) wheels and tires into the basement.


Thanks for the concern. I'm going to bring them in one at a time. The big boxes are 22in cubed. The big boxes are only about 50 lbs but they're bulky.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, they're awkward to carry. I think, within their boxes (individual ones), our MSR 013s were probably about 20-25lbs a piece or so? That plus the wide grip required and stacking them, I threw my back out bad, had to have my wife drive to my buddy's shop to get them mounted. Probably all the "doing everything" after did not help. I still have issues to this day and that was back in 2015.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Yeah, they're awkward to carry. I think, within their boxes (individual ones), our MSR 013s were probably about 20-25lbs a piece or so? That plus the wide grip required and stacking them, I threw my back out bad, had to have my wife drive to my buddy's shop to get them mounted. Probably all the "doing everything" after did not help. I still have issues to this day and that was back in 2015.


Sorry to hear that. I learned the correct way to handle wheels/tires when I worked for Goodyear. My rims are supposed to be 22 Lbs bare. Not too bad considering my 16" wheels are 19 lbs or so I've read.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Sorry to hear that. I learned the correct way to handle wheels/tires when I worked for Goodyear. My rims are supposed to be 22 Lbs bare. Not too bad considering my 16" wheels are 19 lbs or so I've read.


Oh this wasn't necessarily not having learned, I just happened to be moving them into the car and wasn't paying attention. I lift four times a week (well, not for at least six months or so after this idiocy), so I know better. Could happen with any heavy box, though, they just happened to have wheels in them.

I have tire totes for all my wheels and tires - makes them much easier to carry up and down the stairs (generally two at a time).


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I roll them to my garage lol.. basement is for house stuff.. except turbos those can be in the house.. ohh and intercoolers and piping .. and new fuel injectors... wait how'd that engine stand and block get down there ...


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> I roll them to my garage lol.. basement is for house stuff.. except turbos those can be in the house.. ohh and intercoolers and piping .. and new fuel injectors... wait how'd that engine stand and block get down there ...


I have six sets of wheels and tires in the basement and another set of just tires. 

Keeps them nice and conditioned, so it should preserve them a fair bit longer. Three of them are ours, two of them are my brother's, the last set of wheels and tires is off the Cavalier (two snows and two all-seasons).

And then all the factory suspension parts off my Camaro...and all the factory suspension parts off my brother's Mustang...most of the factory parts left (the ones I have left) off my Cobalt - engine, suspension and a full set of seats...still have some Cav parts...yeah I get reminded regularly how much **** I have.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I have six sets of wheels and tires in the basement and another set of just tires.
> 
> Keeps them nice and conditioned, so it should preserve them a fair bit longer. Three of them are ours, two of them are my brother's, the last set of wheels and tires is off the Cavalier (two snows and two all-seasons).
> 
> And then all the factory suspension parts off my Camaro...and all the factory suspension parts off my brother's Mustang...most of the factory parts left (the ones I have left) off my Cobalt - engine, suspension and a full set of seats...still have some Cav parts...yeah I get reminded regularly how much **** I have.


I used to keep all my old parts "*in case I wanted to sell it and go back to stock.*" And then I realized something. Once I start modding a car, I'm not just monetarily or physically investing in it. I'm emotionally investing in it! There's no way I'm selling the car.  Especially if it's paid off. So I keep my stock parts long enough to know it the modifications are going to work well and then I scrap or sell them. I do more scrapping then selling.

Speaking of which, I'm already starting to rub a little in front under certain unlevel turning conditions. The new tires are definitely going to have to be a smaller diameter than stock.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I sold a good amount of my factory parts from my Cobalt - people were really looking for some weird ****, and that helped me clear out some of it. Really need to sell the rest of it, though. I have no intention of selling the car - any of our cars - so I think what didn't sell kind of just moved with us and they've stayed in the basement since.

At one point, I had a buyer for my seats, but they strung me along for a month and then eventually admitted they didn't have the funds to buy them...wish they'd have just told me that in the first place.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I sold a good amount of my factory parts from my Cobalt - people were really looking for some weird ****, and that helped me clear out some of it. Really need to sell the rest of it, though. I have no intention of selling the car - any of our cars - so I think what didn't sell kind of just moved with us and they've stayed in the basement since.
> 
> At one point, I had a buyer for my seats, but they strung me along for a month and then eventually admitted they didn't have the funds to buy them...wish they'd have just told me that in the first place.


Unfortunately some people are like that.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, was kinda a bummer. Really don't need a second set of seats for the car anymore. They're black cloth and in great shape, but with how big my basement is, they're not really in my way, either.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I'm keeping a fair amount of stock components at the moment.. Probably scrap the exhasut ,manifold when I swap turbos as Im betting this one is about done .


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Mr_Pat said:


> I'm keeping a fair amount of stock components at the moment.. Probably scrap the exhasut ,manifold when I swap turbos as Im betting this one is about done .


Usually listing on eBay is free (unless they changed something) and you only pay a fee if it sells. You'd be surprised what people buy...

Someone bought the weird top half/resonator/giant thing of the stock Cobalt intake. They didn't even wait for the auction, they paid $10 extra for my Buy It Now price...and then I only had to ship it 45 minutes away.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I have a 60 dollar credit with ebay from a sale 25 years ago.... they charged me the price of a vehicle sale for a 3 wheeler that sold for 150 bucks.. they tried to charge me 300 for selling it .. So far when I wanted to sell something off it has gone to a forum, craigslist, and even FB market..


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Update: The car is going in to Goodyear on Monday to get a rubbing noise looked at. It's on the right front corner and happens when the steering wheel is at half a rotation counter clockwise. It's not rubbing on the fender and doesn't rub when the suspension is unloaded. I'm thinking it about has to be rubbing on the inner fender liner where I can't see it.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Thats no good hope its something simple.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Thats no good hope its something simple.


I'm thinking it's a suspension geometry related thing. Since it's only on the one side.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Update: I visited Goodyear today. The technician allowed me to assist him in the diagnosis. Perks of being his former supervisor. The good news is nothing is visibly rubbing. We lifted the car off the ground and sat it back down and the noise went away. The front springs are just slightly squeaky now. Our theory is the noise is due to the front springs being so compressed. The stock front tires actually tuck now. The tire diameter is 26.14", but the front fenders are 25.875" from the ground.

I'm definitely going to go with a smaller diameter tire for the new wheels.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Always nice when it sorts itself out ehh ?? spring may gave been twisted not sitting against the cushion right or something simple.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Always nice when it sorts itself out ehh ?? spring may gave been twisted not sitting against the cushion right or something simple.


I'll take what I can get.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I scheduled an appointment to get tires and TPMS sensors installed for my new wheels.

*10 Days and Counting *


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I thought I'd better open these up and take a look before installation day....


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I think that picture is NSFW.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> I think that picture is NSFW.


I can only hope they still look as good on the car. I was a little apprehensive to open the box. They were re-drilled from 5X100 to 5X105. I can hardly even tell, other a few small machining marks by the inserts.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Mr_Pat said:


> I think that picture is NSFW.


Yep, I lost.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Not Safe For Work lol.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Mr_Pat said:


> Not Safe For Work lol.


oh nvm that preview of the link... just urban dictionary what I said lol


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I'm thinking it's a suspension geometry related thing. Since it's only on the one side.


Mine rubs on the same corner.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Mine rubs on the same corner.


The "rubbing" sound on mine was the spring.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> The "rubbing" sound on mine was the spring.


Well, mine ate the fender liner recently.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Well, mine ate the fender liner recently.


Ouch. Aren't you running a larger than stock diameter tire?

The ones I just ordered are a little smaller than the stock diameter?


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Ouch. Aren't you running a larger than stock diameter tire?
> 
> The ones I just ordered are a little smaller than the stock diameter?


No, but they are wider.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Today I cleaned out my Mishimoto oil catch can which hasn't been done since November (about 6,000, 85% city miles). It's has a 7.5oz capacity. It was about 3/4 full. It appears to be a mixture of water and fuel with some oil mixed in. Before I opened it up, I thought about taking the catch can off. I think I'm going to leave it in.


















This one is it fully come apart for easy cleaning.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Today I cleaned out my Mishimoto oil catch can which hasn't been done since November (about 6,000, 85% city miles). It's has a 7.5oz capacity. It was about 3/4 full. It appears to be a mixture of water and fuel with some oil mixed in. Before I opened it up, I thought about taking the catch can off. I think I'm going to leave it in.
> 
> View attachment 293366
> 
> ...


Things that make you go HHHMMMMM.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Things that make you go HHHMMMMM.


Yes it does. I'm guessing it has to do with the humidity we see in combination with all the city driving I do. It never drops below 50% humidity outside unless it's below 0F.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

even air from the crank case is going to condensate when it cools down.. I see the same thing with the air compressor system at work minus fuel of course .. The compressor is at one end of the building and the drop lines at the other end of the buillding constantly have water in them from the air cooling in the pipes over the distance. The oil catch can is doing its job by condensing the water and oil vapor back to liquid and keeping it out of your intercooler.. So seeing this now I really need to get mine installed . Though you said you have fuel ?? when was the last time you checked comp / leak down ??


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> when was the last time you checked comp / leak down ??


Never 

It's not physically noticeable but I can smell it.

Good thing I have new pistons and rings, Just in case.


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## F18D4T (Sep 24, 2020)

Mine looks really similar! Nasty stuff, and the water is especially bad with e85 I've found


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

F18D4T said:


> Mine looks really similar! Nasty stuff, and the water is especially bad with e85 I've found


hmm good point I forgot he was running E85 as well guess I will wait and see what mine looks like .. Think Im going to try and make it a point to get that in tomorrow . Oil catch that is


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> hmm good point I forgot he was running E85 as well guess I will wait and see what mine looks like .. Think Im going to try and make it a point to get that in tomorrow . Oil catch that is


I forgot I was running E85 too.  

I haven't used it since May because when I get to rebuilding the engine I want it to start up within the first two cranks. It won't do that 90% of the time on E85 when the engine is cold.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

LOL well regardless this is definately motivation to get my can on .. as if I didnt have enough after looking at the port on the inlet side of the turbo with the nasty oil stain running down inside..


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> LOL well regardless this is definately motivation to get my can on .. as if I didnt have enough after looking at the port on the inlet side of the turbo with the nasty oil stain running down inside..


It definitely does keep things cleaner. But I swear that sometimes it messes with the idle vacuum. Sometimes my boost/vacuum guage looks like a roller coaster at idle at a stop light. But the engine speed idles good.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> It definitely does keep things cleaner. But I swear that sometimes it messes with the idle vacuum. Sometimes my boost/vacuum guage looks like a roller coaster at idle at a stop light. But the engine speed idles good.


Do you have a fix kit installed on your car ?? Im wondering if the brass filter messes with the flow a bit .. The way I plan on working mine is the catch can is only for the Turbo side of the line. The fix kit will tee off of the line coming from the intake going to the catch can as recirculating the humid and or oil vapor air will be fine for the intake side . just not so good for the turbo in my opinion


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## F18D4T (Sep 24, 2020)

JLL said:


> I forgot I was running E85 too.
> 
> I haven't used it since May because when I get to rebuilding the engine I want it to start up within the first two cranks. It won't do that 90% of the time on E85 when the engine is cold.


I havent had any problems with cold cranking, but the coldest its' been here is 3C. Is it the actual cranking or staying running after?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Do you have a fix kit installed on your car ?? Im wondering if the brass filter messes with the flow a bit .. The way I plan on working mine is the catch can is only for the Turbo side of the line. The fix kit will tee off of the line coming from the intake going to the catch can as recirculating the humid and or oil vapor air will be fine for the intake side . just not so good for the turbo in my opinion


I don't have a fix it. I've thought about it, but I've never bought one.

The brass filter about has to affect the flow.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

F18D4T said:


> I havent had any problems with cold cranking, but the coldest its' been here is 3C. Is it the actual cranking or staying running after?


Ah. I have a life long friend who moved to Australia after University. His wife was an exchange student from there. He said the winters there are wonderful compared to here. He lives somewhere near the Sydney area. He comes back to the U.S. to visit once a year.

It's both until the engine warms up a little. Then once the engine is warm it fires right up.
I've talked to my tuner about it multiple times. He's made various adjustments. Ultimately his conclusion is: "E85 *is* notorious for hard starts."
I've basically just excepted that explanation. It's not hurting anything. It's just not good for rebuilt engine initial start up.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I know it's kinda old school but I bought a stubby antenna today with my tire rebate.










Tomorrow, I'm taking the wheels and TPMS sensors into Goodyear with the HHR. I go back on Friday with the Cruze to have them put on.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I put a stubby Carbon Fiber one on mine. and been bugging Zeus for info on the sharkfins.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> I put a stubby Carbon Fiber one on mine. and been bugging Zeus for info on the sharkfins.


I was looking at sharkfins. They're basically plastic covers with an antenna inside that go over the existing antenna/xm radio base. They won't work for me because the antenna base on my Cruze is too long. I guess it was another "2015 makeover" change.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

have you looked at this one .. 

Shark fin


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> have you looked at this one ..
> 
> Shark fin


Yes. That's the 1st one I looked at. If you look at the years there's a note by 2015.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Yes. That's the 1st one I looked at. If you look at the years there's a note by 2015.


Are you sure your's has the longer base?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Are you sure your's has the longer base?


Yes. I measured it. My base is close to 7" long.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Yes. I measured it. My base is close to 7" long.


Wow, quite impressive I must say.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I would like to thank @Mr_Pat for making some new mountings bushings for my rear sway bar!

Some of the packing material stuck to the fresh paint but that's not an issue because it does not effect functionality.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Yeah it was kind of humid the night before I wondered if they were really dry or not ,,,, It was more of a quick coating to help keep corrosion off the aluminum


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

14 Hours to new wheel o clock.

I feel like a kid a Christmas Eve. I just hope I can get some sleep.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

New wheels an sway bar back on  cause I want to make sure those bushings came out right since I didnt get to finish the machine work myself.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> New wheels an sway bar back on  cause I want to make sure those bushings came out right since I didnt get to finish the machine work myself.


If it ever stops raining 🌧


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Got the new wheels today. No Rubbing whatsoever. It's raining a ton today, but I was able to take a picture through the shop's showroom window. I'll try to take a better picture tomorrow that do these wheels justice. When they put the car on the back on the ground, I was amazed at the result. I couldn't be happier.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I've seen beige/gold cars with black wheels (just plasti-dipped stock wheels) and not been a fan, but that combo is really, really working.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I've seen beige/gold cars with black wheels (just plasti-dipped stock wheels) and not been a fan, but that combo is really, really working.


Thanks.

I've heard that a few times already. You can't see the gloss in the rain. But they're gloss black rims.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Here's a picture I took tonight in between rain showers. It's not the best but it's better than the first on. For comparison, the 18" wheels I had on my Cobalt are posted below. I think the wheels one the Cruze look much bigger even though their both 18s. Both pictures are taken about 10 feet from the car.










My Cobalt 12 years ago.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

To go along with the above post, I've noticed that the aftermarket wheels on my Cruze perform very differently the aftermarket wheels I had on my Cobalt. This peaked my curiosity. I did some research and there is a huge weight difference between the wheels I put on both cars compared to the stock wheels on the respective vehicles. I'll post below:

*Cruze*
Stock: 20 LB (16" wheel) + 24 LB (tire) = 44 LB
Aftermarket: 22 LB (18" wheel) + 24 LB (tire) = 46 LB.

*Only a 2 LB difference over stock.

Cobalt*
Stock: 20 LB (15" Wheels) + 16 LB (Tire) = 36 LB
Aftermarket: 26 LB (18" Wheel) + 23 LB (Tire) = 49 LB

*A 13 LB difference over stock!*


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I think I have something like a 5 or 6 lb difference between the 195/60R15s on steelies and the 225/40R18s on my MSR045s on my Cobalt and it's incredibly noticeable the affect it has on acceleration - but the extra traction below 40 mph as well as the huge upgrade in lateral grip more than make up for it.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

So what you're saying is she's slower. Unlucky.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> So what you're saying is she's slower. Unlucky.


My Cobalt was noticeable slower with the 18's. I updated my post above. There was a 13LB difference in the wheels I had for that. I didn't do any research before I bought them, other than I liked how they looked in the catalog.  @MP81

With my Cruze I can't tell a difference with the 2 LB increase.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> My Cobalt was noticeable slower with the 18's. I updated my post above. There was a 13LB difference in the wheels I had for that. I didn't do any research before I bought them, other than I liked how they looked in the catalog.  @MP81
> 
> With my Cruze I can't tell a difference with the 2 LB increase.


My difference might be closer to your number. I have a weight comparison somewhere that I need to confirm. The Cruze is much closer between OE wheels + winter Xi3s and MSR 013s and Fuel Maxes. Both the wheels and tires are lighter, but it's not massive, nor really noticeable. I think the OE wheels are much more aerodynamic, though.

The Volt's wheel/tire combo is 1.5lbs lighter a corner and extremely noticeable, though, so it's really kinda weird.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

More wheel pictures. Upon further inspection there actually poke about 1/4" out past the top of the fender well.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Those look fantastic. What is the offset? I think on our MSR013s, we go from a +44 on the stock wheels to a +38, so they get pushed out about 1/4" and it puts them in a very good spot, visually. Obviously your additional wheel width will also "add" to how much the tire pushes outboard.

On my Cobalt I go from a 15x6 at +42 to an 18x8 at +35, so that basically pushes the side of the tire out just over 1 1/4", right to where it needs to be.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Those look fantastic. What is the offset? I think on our MSR013s, we go from a +44 on the stock wheels to a +38, so they get pushed out about 1/4" and it puts them in a very good spot, visually. Obviously your additional wheel width will also "add" to how much the tire pushes outboard.
> 
> On my Cobalt I go from a 15x6 at +42 to an 18x8 at +35, so that basically pushes the side of the tire out just over 1 1/4", right to where it needs to be.


It's an 8.5 inch wide wheel with a +38mm offset.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> It's an 8.5 inch wide wheel with a +38mm offset.


Okay, so most of that is coming from the extra 1" of width on either side, since the stock 16s have a +39 offset.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Okay, so most of that is coming from the extra 1" of width on either side, since the stock 16s have a +39 offset.


That is correct. 26mm more outboard/24mm more inboard. The tire's profile is also considerably more square than the tires on my 16s.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

I'm a matte black person usually, but those are cleannnn


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I'm a matte black person usually, but those are cleannnn


Thank you.

They're technically "gloss black" but, they don't look super glossy on the car.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> I'm a matte black person usually, but those are cleannnn


My favorite part of matte black wheels: the way they hide brake dust. Just don't touch them, or you'll see how dirty they are.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> My favorite part of matte black wheels: the way they hide brake dust. Just don't touch them, or you'll see how dirty they are.


I've never cared for matte black anything  

To me it just looks unfinished.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

@MP81

I finally got around to taking a picture of my lights. I remember you wanted to see the cutoff.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That's really nice and sharp. I was expecting it, since it's "just an" aftermarket projector to maybe be less sharp, but that's solid right there. I remember you saying those weren't cheap, so perhaps that's a big part of it, they're not just some of the cheaper ones you see. Real nice.

I likely need to replace the bulbs in ours, I think half of the one on the right side is going in and out - driving down/back from NC you could literally watch it happen (it wasn't frequent, I'm talking hours between when it would work, then not work, then be on again), and there was a definite blind spot on the RH side of the RH projector (when it works, there's clear throw onto the wall of a freeway, and when not, there is none). Hoping I can swap those _without_ pulling the headlights.

This was the pic I took at like...3 or 4AM on the drive down. You can see a basic total lack of light on the rightmost quarter of the car and beyond.










My buddy who built the projectors said he is currently testing out 360-degree bulbs in his truck right now, and I think those - in a projector setting (because we all know what they do in a reflector...it's why aftermarket LEDs are banned, haha) should be epic. I would expect a gain in foreground lighting, as well as upper lighting with the highbeams on, since there will be lights at 0 and 180 degrees now. But we shall see.


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

wheels look good on the gold!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Murphsox said:


> wheels look good on the gold!


Thanks!
You should get some black wheels.  
My wheel/tire combo was just under $2K. But you can get black wheels for less than that. Especially if you buy them used.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

lol I'm helping him watch for some wheels. I debated getting a set of black konigs.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> lol I'm helping him watch for some wheels. I debated getting a set of black konigs.


You got pics?

On a UPDATE note: The weather looks dry so I've decided that next Tuesday or Wednesday, I'm going to start my engine build.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Awesome and no pics of the wheels I was looking at. I saw them just before I found the ones I have on. I like the 2 tone on my car. I'm a fan of machined face.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Awesome and no pics of the wheels I was looking at. I saw them just before I found the ones I have on. I like the 2 tone on my car. I'm a fan of machined face.


The machined face looks good on your car.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I spent this afternoon writing myself a HOW-TO on removing the cylinder head on a 1.4L. It includes replacing the water pump and some other things in the process.

Now I just gotta do the piston/connecting rods, head studs, re-assembly, and *most importantly, *torque speciations.

But that'll be this weekend ish.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I bought a used stock connecting rod on eBay in hopes that I would be able to calculate whether or not I'll need to notch the block, forgetting that I don't know the depth of the cylinder without opening things up an taking a measurement.  I guess I'll have to test fit to check for interference.

Anyway here's the comparison picture I took if your interested. The angle of the picture is kinda off.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Wow that's a.big difference. What's the weight difference between the 2 ??


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Wow that's a.big difference. What's the weight difference between the 2 ??


The used factory connecting rod weights 397 grams.
All four Pauter connecting rods weight 454 grams each. (I guess that's what $1000 gets you.  )

That's a difference of 57 grams.

I haven't weighted the new pistons yet.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

most of your aftermarket companies weight match pistons and rods anymore helps with balance.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I bought a used stock connecting rod on eBay in hopes that I would be able to calculate whether or not I'll need to notch the block, forgetting that I don't know the depth of the cylinder without opening things up an taking a measurement.  I guess I'll have to test fit to check for interference.
> 
> Anyway here's the comparison picture I took if your interested. The angle of the picture is kinda off.
> View attachment 293616


Sheeeesh


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Update: I finally finished the how-to for myself on my engine build. It ended up being 7 pages long, single spaced, with a total of 190 steps. Two pages on disassembly. One page on pistons, connecting rods, and block prep. And four pages on reassembly and timing. Now I just have to proof read it to make sure I didn't miss anything huge; and of course, there will be things I see along the way that I didn't include. There always is. It kind of made me feel like I was in college again. I couldn't tell you when the last time was that I used word to write something that long. 

The built starts on Friday...

The weather looks awesome for the next week.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> and of course, there will be things I see along the way that I didn't include. There always is.


Those types of things are more fun to find on the fly, preferably when you're crammed into some small space.



JLL said:


> It kind of made me feel like I was in college again. I couldn't tell you when the last time was that I used word to write something that long.


Yeah...I don't miss that. Weekly 18-20 page reports for our EMAT class (thankfully a lot of graphics, but still - something that we basically always did Sunday night, as it was due Monday - luckily my Little B and myself were in the same room, would make coffee and crank through those things at the same time), all together worth like a whole 10% of the grade...not a very good ROI there.

Still, nothing compared to my thesis which I think ended up "only" being 60 or 70 pages...


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Dont forget assembly lube. And full the oil pump with lube as well to help prime...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Dont forget assembly lube. And full the oil pump with lube as well to help prime...


Thanks for the tip.

I have a couple different kinds of assembly lubes, some valvetrain spray, honing oil, and 13 quarts of break in oil (enough for 2 oil changes). Lube is my friend.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Lube is my friend.


TWSS


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> TWSS


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I spent this afternoon writing myself a HOW-TO on removing the cylinder head on a 1.4L. It includes replacing the water pump and some other things in the process.
> 
> Now I just gotta do the piston/connecting rods, head studs, re-assembly, and *most importantly, *torque speciations.
> 
> But that'll be this weekend ish.


These may help some:









Head Bolt Tightening/Loosening Sequence?


Can anyone tell me the head bolt tightening sequence for a 2013 Cruze LTZ, 1.4L? Not having much luck online.




www.cruzetalk.com













Chevrolet Cruze Forums







www.cruzetalk.com













Chevrolet Cruze Forums







www.cruzetalk.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> These may help some:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks.

Were you here in the days of NickD?

I only know of him from what I've read.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Were you here in the days of NickD?
> 
> I only know of him from what I've read.


Yes Sir!, I remember him well. Sometimes I may even miss him. We all have positive and a few negative qualities. Just guessing that he may have been on and off some particular meds, but don't quote me on that.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> We all have positive and a few negative qualities.


Isn't that the truth.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 1:

I got off to a great start today with a trip to lowes to buy some wood. I bought the wood and I bought this:










A 20V 3/8" drive electric ratchet. I LOVE IT!

BUT, because of that I didn't actually get started on the car until 2 PM and now I'm cooking dinner. So only about an hour of Cruze Time today. But I found an unexpected oil leak:










It looks like either the oil pan seal or the timing cover gasket. Both of which will be replaced in the engine build.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I wouldn't say that's _too_ unexpected, seems to not be all that uncommon (ours has a similar leak).


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

MP81 said:


> I wouldn't say that's _too_ unexpected, seems to not be all that uncommon (ours has a similar leak).


Which on was it, I’ve noticed a oil shine on my pan lol


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Murphsox said:


> Which on was it, I’ve noticed a oil shine on my pan lol


What do you mean?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 2:

I got about 4 hours of actual Cruze Time today. I had to buy another tool, an actual pair of hose clamp pliers. Regular pliers just weren't cutting it.









I got the inner fender line, intake, water pump, thermostat, serpentine belt tensioner, and the upper engine mount removed and the the mount temporarily re-installed. I was planning to remove the turbo today but the exhaust bolts needed a good soaking in PB blaster overnight.

Oh well, tomorrow's another day.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

on the exhaust bolts use a wrench or socket and give a slight snug in the tightening direction it'll help break the threads free. I recommend doing those with a ratchet or regular wrench


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> on the exhaust bolts use a wrench or socket and give a slight snug in the tightening direction it'll help break the threads free. I recommend doing those with a ratchet or regular wrench


I'll try that.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 3:

Today was a productive day. I got in 6 hours of Cruze Time in. I removed the downpipe after snapping all 3 bolts, the turbocharger/exhaust manifold, the intake manifold, the alternator, the upper charge pipe, the upper and lower radiator hoses, and disconnected and labeled 23 electric connector. Now for pictures:

Snapped downpipe bolts:









Rusty, Crusty, exhaust manifold nuts and a couple studs:









Turbo Removed:









Intake Removed:



















What the engine compartment looks like at the moment:









Tomorrow the head will come off. I just have the camshaft actuators, valve cover and cylinder heads bolts to remove. Then if I have time, the oil pan will come off on preparation for replacing the internals.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD -* DAY 4:

Today, the plan was to take the head and oil pan off. I was ready to take the head off by 11 AM. The only thing I had to do was remove the head bolts. For those of you who don't know, there are 12 heads bolt with E12 heads. The removal sequence is as follows:

1. Loosen each head bolt 1/4 turn in the reverse order of the tightening sequence.
2. Then loosen the bolts an additional 1/2 turn in the same order.
3. Remove the bolts the rest of the way.

Easy Right?

I loosen the first bolt 1/4 turn, then a second, and a third, then a forth. One the fifth bolt, I got cocky. The E12 wasn't fully engaged when I went to give it the 1/4 turn and then" OH F***..."

That external torque socket tore that bolt up. So I thought (wrongly) that I would just pound on the next size down and take it off. No dice.

Then I bought these, which I should have in the first place.










The resulting PITA that I had created for myself took 3 hours. What was left of the bolt was too small for the 10mm but way to big for the 8mm. So, I ended up shaving down the bolt to make the 8mm fit and finally, success!










I removed all the rest of the bolts but I'm going to save separating the head until morning. I'm too tired right now.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ugh...gotta "love" that.

At least it wasn't a 4.2L (4200 I6) - the "suggested" method of removing the head bolts consists of: placing a punch on top of the bolt head, whacking the punch with a hammer, and then loosing the bolt and hoping it doesn't just snap. They are all TTY and they stretch _considerably_, so it's very likely most, even with that method, will snap. At least once they snap, the bottom half of the bolt becomes super loose and comes out pretty easily. Watched an episode of Hot Rod Garage where they did a pair of 4200s and the one that got a head swap saw Lucky break about...half the bolts.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Ugh...gotta "love" that.
> 
> At least it wasn't a 4.2L (4200 I6) - the "suggested" method of removing the head bolts consists of: placing a punch on top of the bolt head, whacking the punch with a hammer, and then loosing the bolt and hoping it doesn't just snap. They are all TTY and they stretch _considerably_, so it's very likely most, even with that method, will snap. At least once they snap, the bottom half of the bolt becomes super loose and comes out pretty easily. Watched an episode of Hot Rod Garage where they did a pair of 4200s and the one that got a head swap saw Lucky break about...half the bolts.


Wow...

I'll be upgrading to head studs so if the head ever has to come off again it TTY bolts won't be an issue.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Wow...
> 
> I'll be upgrading to head studs so if the head ever has to come off again it TTY bolts won't be an issue.


Yup, you should be set. And it's a lot easier than trying to pull a DOHC VVT head off an EJ25 with head studs, in car.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

I do ARP hardware wherever I can on rebuilds. Already have a set for the Cruze in the box oh parts with gaskets.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 5:

I took the mid-pipe out. 










Took the head off.









And admired how dirty piston were and inspected the cylinder bores. The cylinder walls are glossy (glazed). I'll definitely need to de-glaze them so the new piston rings will seat right.









I also took out all the oil pan bolts. That thing is plastered on there so I'm going to work on that tomorrow if I have time. I have a lot of errands to do with my wife tomorrow.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Lookin good! You going to do those oil cooler orings while you got everything off? Can be had for like $15.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Lookin good! You going to do those oil cooler orings while you got everything off? Can be had for like $15.


I've seriously though about it. I was actually just reading the how-to thread you did on it. Or at least I think it was a how to thread?  I'm gonna see how long it takes me to do the pistons first. I'd like to get the internals done and the head bolted down before Sunday but we'll see if that happens.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 6:

I didn't do alot today. But I want to post it because I feel it's important. I removed the oil pan. I watched a lot of videos showing people struggling for upwards of an hour trying to get the oil pan off with dead blows, screwdrivers, and pieces of flat metals. THAT IS THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT!

I had my oil pan off within 5 minutes today and I'm going to show you how I did it. Remember screwdrivers are not pry bars.

As some of you may know, I took the oil pan bolts out 2 days ago. After I took the bolts out I gave it a couple wacks and prys like I had seen done on YouTube. That did nothing. Then I decided to sleep on it.

Here's how I got it off so quickly today. I left all the bolts out. I then took off the crank pulley. GM designed pry points into oil pan on the transmission side. I circled them below. Pry on those 2 points, STRAIT DOWN, FIRMLY, with a medium sized pry bar and that will break the seal without breaking anything else. Then wiggle the oil pan out. There are also 2 small pry points on the crank pulley side but I didn't have to use those.










The 2 pry areas I used to quickly and easily remove the oil pan.









Here's a picture of the oil baffle that's bolted to the lower crank case.










The only other thing I did today was measure the diameter of the cylinder bores to make sure everything was ok before I take the pistons and connecting rods out.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

I missed the reason you circled the two areas on the pan.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I missed the reason you circled the two areas on the pan.


Those are the two pry points I used to remove the pan easily.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 7:

I did something I normally don't like to do today. I went backwards. I knew that in order to be able to test the connecting rods for clearance that I would need to be able to freely spin the crankshaft. I was hoping I would be able to do that with the timing chain in place with the head off. Unfortunately that's not the case. I temporarily put the engine pan back to support the engine while I removed the timing cover, the timing chain, and guides.









I put the timing cover and upper mount back in place so the engine could be properly supported while I work directly underneath it.

I guess the internals will have to wait until next week.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

May as well just take it out of the engine compartment at this point


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> May as well just take it out of the engine compartment at this point


I would have but, I don't have a garage, an engine hoist or an engine stand.  

It would have been easier to do the work on an engine stand. But, I'll make due. At least I can close the hood if it rains.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I would have but, I don't have a garage, an engine hoist or an engine stand.
> 
> It would have been easier to do the work on an engine stand. But, I'll make due. At least I can close the hood if it rains.


You can bear hug that thing outta there, can't weigh much more than a motorcycle engine at this point...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> You can bear hug that thing outta there, can't weigh much more than a motorcycle engine at this point...


 Yeah, I bet the block and internals don't weigh more than 70 or 80 lbs.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Cover all the opeings you can to keep moisture out especially .. I dont know how humid it is where your at


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Cover all the opeings you can to keep moisture out especially .. I dont know how humid it is where your at


It's humid enough I don't trust honing the block. The top side of the block is covered. The oil baffle and internals are still in. From what I can tell everything is still coated in oil on the bottom end. I'm hoping that'll be enough to protect the journals and bearings from rust. That's why I haven't taken the internals out yet. 

On Saturday things are supposed to cool back down and dry out.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

You can also just...dump oil everywhere.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 8:

After taking a week off due to unstable weather conditions, I got the internals out today.

Here is a picture of what the bottom of the engine with the oil baffle removed.









The block with the pistons and connecting rods removed.









And for those of you who are interested this is the groove in the crankshaft that the locking pin fits into at #1 TDC for timing purposes.









Tomorrow I plan to test fit a Pauter connecting rod with a piston without the rings installed to check for connecting rod to block interference.

Assembled forged piston and Pauter connecting rod.


----------



## TheRealHip (Sep 1, 2014)

New rods and pistons? Do they weight the same as the old ones?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

TheRealHip said:


> New rods and pistons? Do they weight the same as the old ones?


As assemblies, they are 16 grams heavier than the stock ones. I don't anticipate this to be a problem, as all four rotating assemblies are the exact same weight and with a 90 degree in-line engine, the amount of weight going up at a given moment in time, is the same as the amount of weight coming down. So things should balance out.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD *- DAY 9:

I am extremely pleased. I test fitted the new piston and Pauter connecting rod without rings and there is no interference with the block at all! 

Here's a picture of the test fit.


















I'm going to spend the rest of the day taking the assembly back out and hopefully deglazing the cylinders so tomorrow I can gap the rings.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Did you verify it doesnt hit on the upstroke of the crank ?? when you cgeck that you'll need a bearing in the rod as well


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Did you verify it doesnt hit on the upstroke of the crank ?? when you cgeck that you'll need a bearing in the rod as well


Yes. I put a bearing in the rod. I had an assistant turn the crank while I watched from underneath. We did 3 full revolutions just to be sure. There's a lot more room down there than you would think.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

New parts are always so pretty.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> New parts are always so pretty.


I know. It's too bad these live in a place where they are rarely seen.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I know. It's too bad these live in a place where they are rarely seen.


Yup. And they'll get dirty anyway...unless you run E85. Keeps those parts sparkly clean!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - *DAY 10:

Today I assembled the pistons and connecting rods. And started measuring and adjusting pistons ring gaps. For those of you who have never done it, traditionally the pistons ring gaps have to be measured 1" down in the bore with the ring being "square" in the bore. For this task, I use some engine oil, a piston ring squaring tool, and a set of feeler gauges.

The lighting was kind weird. Some of the pictures are kinda hard to see.

The squaring tool:









The squaring tool in the bore.









The pistons ring in the bore after using the squaring tool.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ugh, gapping rings is such a tedious pain in the ass. It's not hard, it's just a lot of trial and error and hoping you don't take too much off.

Most of the time, we just use one of the pistons to shove the ring down, since it's close enough to square for purposes of a ring.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Ugh, gapping rings is such a tedious pain in the ass. It's not hard, it's just a lot of trial and error and hoping you don't take too much off.


Yes it is.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

MP81 said:


> Ugh, gapping rings is such a tedious pain in the ass. It's not hard, it's just a lot of trial and error and hoping you don't take too much off.
> 
> Most of the time, we just use one of the pistons to shove the ring down, since it's close enough to square for purposes of a ring.


I use the same method lol and yeah sitting there filing rings down small amounts at a time definately one of the more dull things to be done..


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD - *DAY 10:
> 
> Today I assembled the pistons and connecting rods. And started measuring and adjusting pistons ring gaps. For those of you who have never done it, traditionally the pistons ring gaps have to be measured 1" down in the bore with the ring being "square" in the bore. For this task, I use some engine oil, a piston ring squaring tool, and a set of feeler gauges.
> 
> ...


So what is the gap needed and the order of the rings bottom to top?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> So what is the gap needed and the order of the rings bottom to top?


*Note: This is for my particular setup.

From Top to Bottom:
Top Ring.............. - Gap 0.020 inch

Second Ring........ - Gap 0.020 inch

Oil Support Rail 1 - Gap 0.015 inch
Oil Ring.................- Gap 0.015 inch Minimum
Oil Support Rail 2 - Gap 0.015 inch


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)




----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> View attachment 294016


Still filing piston rings. Haven't gotten to work on it much.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Bump havent been here much but figured i'd bump this to see if there are any recent updates.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Bump havent been here much but figured i'd bump this to see if there are any recent updates.


Me either Pat. Just a little each day. Sorry to disappoint, but I *still* have a Cruze in the back without pistons in it. I didn't realize it had been 3 weeks! 🤯

I've been busy starting my new business. My goal is to finish the Cruze by the end of the month since the weather got cooler. I've guess I've been procrastinating since the weather was so hot. 😆


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

6 weeks later.....

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 11:*

Hello everyone I have missed! This afternoon, I realized that I realistically only have 3-4 more weeks of decent weather before this get colder. So, I actually got off my butt and gapped all the pistons rings for cylinders 1 and 2. Tomorrow I plan to gap the rings cylinders 3 and 4 as well as put them all in the pistons.

In hindsight, I wish I would have bought the "pre-gapped" aka closer gapped rings from GM. Gapping rings isn't hard, but is tedious.

Sorry no additional pictures.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

mehhh I still check claimed "pre-gapped" better safe than sorry.. and besides you doing them yourself just means you can get them all right where you want them for sure..


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> mehhh I still check claimed "pre-gapped" better safe than sorry.. and besides you doing them yourself just means you can get them all right where you want them for sure..


I agree. All rings should be checked. I was just saying that a "pre-gapped" ring would have been closer to my target final gap to start with, requiring less filing.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD- DAY 12:*

With what little time I had today, I got all of the rings gapped.


----------



## 15CruzeTD (Oct 23, 2019)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD- DAY 12:*
> 
> With what little time I had today, I got all of the rings gapped.


The day isn't over yet!! 🤣


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

15CruzeTD said:


> The day isn't over yet!! 🤣


I'm out of Cruze Time for the day.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 13:*

Another lack luster day but today I got the piston rings on all the pistons. My goal is to have the internals in by Saturday evening. We'll see how that goes.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 14:*

Today I went out to the car to discover a cat had made it's home under the hood! Fur and *light *surface rust were all over the deck and the cylinder walls. I cleaned everything up and got pistons/connecting rods for cylinders 1 and 4 installed. Tomorrow I plan to install internals for cylinders 2 and 3. Sorry, I didn't take pics. Moral of the story.... Don't take 2 months to do an engine build with the car outside.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 15:*

Today I installed the internals and the ZZP head studs. I feel like a got alot done considering I hardly got anything done in the last month. 

Time for pics...

Shiney new internals:









ZZP Head Studs:


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Getting there!


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Sweet!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Getting there!





MP81 said:


> Sweet!


Tomorrow the head goes on along with the oil baffle....or at least that's the plan.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Good deal. At least you're done filing rings. Is the head already assembled?


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD - DAY 15:*
> 
> Today I installed the internals and the ZZP head studs. I feel like a got alot done considering I hardly got anything done in the last month.
> 
> ...


You better get the cat a basket or box or something!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> You better get the cat a basket or box or something!


We have an outdoor ferral cat shelter that we got from the SPCA.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 16:*

I only worked on the Cruze for 3 1/2 hours today. This morning I installed the oil baffle covering up those pretty connecting rods and removed the lower part of the turbo oil return line that broke. I had to press it out from the oil pan side. You can see where it had crusted in place.










This afternoon I installed the head! Incrementally torquing the head nuts to the final torque of 60 ft/lbs as ZZP instructs. That's not a typo. The factory torque spec is 26 ft/lbs + 180 degrees for the factory fasteners.










Tomorrow's plan is to set the engine timing.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD - DAY 16:*
> 
> I only worked on the Cruze for 3 1/2 hours today. This morning I installed the oil baffle covering up those pretty connecting rods and removed the lower part of the turbo oil return line that broke. I had to press it out from the oil pan side. You can see where it had crusted in place.
> 
> ...


I had thought of something today that may make sense for you. I am planning on installing an hours meter under the hood along with a few others on another vehicle. Since you will have a "new" engine, it would be nice to track run time.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I only worked on the Cruze for 3 1/2 hours today. This morning I installed the oil baffle covering up those pretty connecting rods


I find it offensive you didn't post a picture of said pretty connecting rods installed (from below).



JLL said:


> This afternoon I installed the head! Incrementally torquing the head nuts to the final torque of 60 ft/lbs as ZZP instructs. That's not a typo. The factory torque spec is 26 ft/lbs + 180 degrees for the factory fasteners.


Honestly, 26 ft/lbs (even with an extra 180 degrees) seems pretty low and 60 doesn't seem all that crazy, haha. Typical SBC head bolts torque to 65, so that seems about right for an iron block, especially since you're not dealing with stretch anymore.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I find it offensive you didn't post a picture of said pretty connecting rods installed (from below).


That's because I didn’t take any. 

I do have this one from my test fit. You'll have your imagination for the rest.










Also, I was speaking relatively. The 60 ft/lbs spec is roughly a 130% increase over the stock value.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I had thought of something today that may make sense for you. I am planning on installing an hours meter under the hood along with a few others on another vehicle. Since you will have a "new" engine, it would be nice to track run time.


How are you going to do that?


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> How are you going to do that?


Well, the plan is to connect the positive lead to the positive side of the fuel pump and ground the other.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 17:*

Today I got the engine timed. My plan to support the engine from above didn't work out so, I had to temporarily install the oil pan to support it from the bottom. I need to do a timing verification test tomorrow. I forgot to take a picture of the new timing components before I put the timing cover on. I have a picture with every removed and a picture with the cover on but those are the only 2 for today.


----------



## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

wow ! can't wait to see once it is finished !


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> wow ! can't wait to see once it is finished !


Me too.

It's only been sitting on jack stands since July 30th.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Nice work @JLL Glad to see your coming along on yours..


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 18:*

The past couple days have been interesting. On Friday, I proceeded to do my timing verification test first thing in the morning. The engine turned almost 1/8 of a rotation and then stopped. Attempting to troubleshoot the issue I loosened the cam bolts to manually rotate the cams to check for piston to valve interference. Thankfully there was none. I then removed the oil pan to check the lower portion of the chain for interference. That was fine as well. It turns out the ARP bolts on the connecting rods were hitting the oil baffle. 

I removed the oil baffle to make modifications to it after I got the engine timed. I reinstalled the timing tools and tried to tighten up the cam bolts and wouldn't you know it; They wouldn't tighten down because they were torque to yield bolts that had already been yielded. 

So, I went to my local dealership and spent $55 on 2 new cam bolts. I then came home and set the timing again. This time the engine rotated as expected. After 2 full rotations, I reinstalled the timing tools to check the timing. IT WAS OFF.  And I was out of daylight.

Knowing I wasn't going to be able to work on the Cruze until today due to the weather and a family event, I spent Saturday doing some reading. I noticed that the timing tools that I bought were slightly different than what were depicted in XtremeRevolutions tutorial.

So, I decided to buy a different brand of timing tools to see if there was a difference. When I received them, I found out there was. Not a big difference but enough that it caused issues. I'm assuming the original set was defective.

Today, I set the timing one last time with the new timing tools and the result was perfect. I installed the modified oil baffle and the connecting rods cleared without a problem. After that I installed the alternator and VVT actuators before I ran out of daylight.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oh, there's nothing like doing things multiple times! And spending money more than once!


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

MP81 said:


> Oh, there's nothing like doing things multiple times! And spending money more than once!


I remember an old saying . . . You can't always afford to do it right the first time but you can always afford to do it right the second time. That part really sucks. Been there, spent that.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 19:*

Today was frustrating. I didn't get to working on the Cruze until 2 PM. My hopes were to get the oil pan and valve cover installed. I started by cleaning up the oil pan and mounting surfaces on the block and timing cover. Once everything was cleaned up I put Ultra Black on the oil pan and went to install the pan. I got the oil pan into position and found that only 3/4 of the pan was making contact with the block. After some investigating I found that the tolerances are tight enough on the lower end of the engine that when I reshaped the oil baffle to accommodate for the new connecting rods, that the ridges on the oil pan no longer had anywhere to sit. 

So I spent the rest of the afternoon cleaning the Ultra Black off of the surfaces I had just cleaned. I did some more fitment testing and oil baffle shaping. So far, the only way I can seem to get the engine to rotate and the oil pan to fit is to leave the oil baffle out.

I'm leaning towards doing that. But I haven't decided yet.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 20:*

Today I got my oil baffle (it's really more of a windage tray) modified, adjusted and installed, along with the oil pan.

This is what my finished baffle/windage tray looked like:










After that I installed my "New in Box, Never Installed" used valve cover that I bought in December. Once I got everything tighten down, I discovered a crack. 










Frustrated, I went to my local Autozone and bought a Dorman valve cover.  Not ideal, but I replaced the gasket that came on it with the Fel-Pro gasket that came in my head gasket set. And tighten the bolts in 3 stages to avoid stripping anything. Hand tight, 35 in-lbs, and then 71 in-lbs. I can understand how people strip the aftermarket or even the stock valve cover bolts if they go for the 71 in-lbs immediately after the hand tight phase. There was a lot of variability in the intermediate tightening phase I did. I think that may be because of the metal washers Dorman uses under the bolts.

Here is what it looks like at the end of the day:


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Wow, that's weird they don't even grain the plastic...but that absolutely sucks the "new" one you bought is absolute junk. Where did that come from? If it was listed as "new in box, never installed" I'd have expected it was opened but never installed...therefore, they likely saw that...

Then again, maybe not. Either way: a bummer.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Wow, that's weird they don't even grain the plastic...but that absolutely sucks the "new" one you bought is absolute junk. Where did that come from? If it was listed as "new in box, never installed" I'd have expected it was opened but never installed...therefore, they likely saw that...
> 
> Then again, maybe not. Either way: a bummer.


I bought it from a member here on CruzeTalk.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I bought it from a member here on CruzeTalk.


_Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm_


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> _Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm_


To be fair, I looked the cover over well and I didn't see the crack until everything was torqued down. The date on the box was from 2018.

But you never know?


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Wait, Mr. OEM installing an aftermarket part. Say it ain't so! 

Glad to see things progressing!


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> Wait, Mr. OEM installing an aftermarket part. Say it ain't so!
> 
> Glad to see things progressing!


Sometimes it sadly just isn't possible.

In some instances, things like a Moog Problem Solver (so, suspension) tend to be quite a nice improvement. Hell, Moog PS swaybar endlinks for the Cobalts were considered a performance part.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I discovered a crack.
> 
> View attachment 294699


Sure, whatever you say Banner...

Your Oil cap if definitely different than my 2014.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 21:*

I didn't work on the Cruze much today but I got some things done. I installed the A/C bracket and compressor, the coolant hoses for the oil cooler, and removed the bumper to change out the upper radiator hose.

Also, after some debating with myself, I have decided to revert the air intake back to the K&N instead of the Injen. The fuel trims have always been excessively positive since I switched to the Injen intake. I think may be because of the MAF sensor location is slightly different in the Injen. But I don't know for sure.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 21:*

Today was productive seeing that I started working on the Cruze at 3:00 this afternoon. I installed the new heater hoses, the water outlet and the intake manifold assembly. 

Here's what it looks like at the end of the day.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 22:*

This morning was productive. This afternoon was a waste. More on that later. This morning, I installed the ethanol sensor and the other fuel system components, the turbocharger oil drain tube and the plate to secure it, the turbocharger, and the turbocharger coolant return line. I also plugged in 2/3rds of the electrical connectors that were removed.

This afternoon, I spent 3 hours trying to thread the turbocharger coolant feed line into the block in an UNTHREAD hole! That's what happens when you wait 3 months to reassemble an engine. 

After hour number 3, I removed the turbocharger and the coolant lines to discover that the correct hole was 7 inches below the hole I was trying to thread the bolt into.

So tomorrow I get to reinstall the turbocharger with 8 new TTY nuts and the respective lines and hopefully install the exhaust, oxygen sensors, and the upper charge pipe.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yay, more new bolts!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 23:*

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This morning I spent my time installing the turbo, coolant lines, and the oil return line.

Here's ZZP'S V3 with the billet actuator installed and shiney copper nuts.









This afternoon, I installed the PCV hose, the intercooler piping, the new coolant reservoir, the new coolant bleed hose, and connected all the grounds, electrical connectors except the MAF and thermostat, and vacuum lines that were disconnected.

Here's the end of the day's work:


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Lookin sexy!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 24:*

Today was a beautiful day. This morning, I went to the hardware store to replace the cheap hardware that ZZP provides with their Downpipe/Midpipe combo. I snapped all 5 bolts taking things apart after soaking then in penatrating fluid overnight. I opted for grade 8 exhaust hardware. 5 Bolts, 2 washers, 5 lock washers and 5 nuts came to $16.

Late this afternoon, I got the exhaust installed along with the new oxygen sensors, spark plugs, and the ignition coil. Here are some pictures.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ugh, I hate cheap ****...then again, as long as they're through-bolts with nuts, that makes it an easy removal! I broke one of the stock bolts unbolting the midpipe from the mufflers on my brother's Mustang, which, based on how they looked, did not surprise me in the least. But again, just a bolt with washers and a nut - went and bought new stuff and we were good to go.

Looking good!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 25:*

This morning I installed the serpentine belt tensioner, water pump, and serpentine belt. This afternoon I installed and adjusted the TTR upper engine mount so that it would fit. I installed the thermostat, lower radiator hose, and filled and partially bleed the cooling system. I also assembled and installed the new K&N intake.

Water pump and tensioner:










Serpentine belt:










Adjusting the TTR Mount:









TTR Mount Installed:









I've never been so excited by coolant!


















The end of the day's work:









*Tomorrow, if every goes well I'm planning to turn the key! I'm excited and terrified. *


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hell yeah, glad to see TTR still making things. Love my mount in the Cobalt!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Hell yeah, glad to see TTR still making things. Love my mount in the Cobalt!


I have a lower transmission mount too, I just haven't gotten it installed.


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## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

Hope it goes well for you !


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I have a lower transmission mount too, I just haven't gotten it installed.


I have their poly trans bushings as well - inserts on the Cobalt. Definitely worth it as an overall package, but the engine mount was definitely the biggest difference.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD - DAY 26:*

This morning, I charged the battery for an hour. I installed the turbocharger oil feed line. I did the first oil change with break-in oil and connected the battery.

After lunch, I checked the fuel pressure. It was good. I triple checked all my connections and checked all the sensor input that I could see with the engine off. They were all good. So I worked up the guts to turn the key. 

It cranked for 5 seconds. 10 seconds. 15 Seconds. Then it sputtered. About that time the ECM halted cranking.........

"CRAP!" I'm thinking to myself.

I waited 10 seconds and tried again. This time, *IT FIRED AND RAN!*

I varied the engine speed until it warmed up and then shut it off and checked for leaks. No leaks!

I changed the oil again with more break in oil to flush out the assembly lube and other contaminates and called it a day.

I'm pretty happy. 



Time for pictures, I didn't take many.

Break in oil:









The most beautiful site in the my world today:









This car hasn't sat on the ground in *102 Days*!


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Great stuff right there! How choppy are those new cams? I've always considered doing a pair whenever the Cobalt gives me a reason to actually pull the engine, some of the larger ones have some major lope.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Great stuff right there! How choppy are those new cams? I've always considered doing a pair whenever the Cobalt gives me a reason to actually pull the engine, some of the larger ones have some major lope.


Right now I can't tell. I'm running the initial break-in tune I requested with the idle set at 1,500 RPM. I emailed my tuner tonight to get the regular tune.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I now remember why I only used polyurethane mounts in my Cobalt for 5 months. The dash vibration between 1,200 - 2,200 RPM is EXTREMELY noticeable. 

I'll have to see how much of an acceleration difference it makes from a stand still once the engine breaks in.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I now remember why I only used polyurethane mounts in my Cobalt for 5 months. The dash vibration between 1,200 - 2,200 RPM is EXTREMELY noticeable.
> 
> I'll have to see how much of an acceleration difference it makes from a stand still once the engine breaks in.


I've had mine in there for over 10 years.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I've had mine in there for over 10 years.


Do they soften up?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Do they soften up?


Ehh, not really. The shift into 4th gear is an absolute monster - the 2nd order audible noise is nuts.

I love them.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Ehh, not really. The shift into 4th gear is an absolute monster - the 2nd order audible noise is nuts.
> 
> I love them.


I imagine I'll have to keep them installed if engine has anywhere near the torque that I estimated. Either that or snap one of the plastic ones.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD - DAY 25:*
> 
> This morning I installed the serpentine belt tensioner, water pump, and serpentine belt. This afternoon I installed and adjusted the TTR upper engine mount so that it would fit. I installed the thermostat, lower radiator hose, and filled and partially bleed the cooling system. I also assembled and installed the new K&N intake.
> 
> ...


OOOH Pretty, I really like shiny copper nuts!

I have the TTR trans mount and that's enough. You sir are gonna feel that mount!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> You sir are gonna feel that mount!


That's no lie


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

But it's a good thing - nice and solid, fits the "theme" of the car.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> But it's a good thing - nice and solid, fits the "theme" of the car.


That's true. At some point a performance build becomes just that, a performance build. And I think I've crossed that threshold.  

Out of curiosity, how much power do you estimate your Cobalt is putting out? I think you've said before it has some problems on the dyno.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

If the converter would stay locked and/or it would stay in the gear we tell it to (on the dyno), I should be right around 250 whp. Car should still scale right around the 2945 lbs it did years back (still on steelies back then, full tank of gas, with the subs in the car - the 18s/tires are heavier, and I have my 8-channel speaker amp in the car now as well, so maybe right around 3k lbs even).


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*First Update Post Engine Build:*

Today, I installed weather stripping on the inner edges of the glove box to try to reduce some of the in-cabin noise from the vibrations cause by the solid upper mount. It worked!

I drove the car semi-normally for the first time. I'm still using the "low power" break in tune. I can't wait to reach the 500 mile and see what it's got. This car really wants to GO! And the noise it makes is gnarly! I wasn't expecting that.


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

JLL said:


> *First Update Post Engine Build:*
> 
> Today, I installed weather stripping on the inner edges of the glove box to try to reduce some of the in-cabin noise from the vibrations cause by the solid upper mount. It worked!
> 
> I drove the car semi-normally for the first time. I'm still using the "low power" break in tune. I can't wait to reach the 500 mile and see what it's got. This car really wants to GO! And the noise it makes is gnarly! I wasn't expecting that.



we love pictures and videos, just saying... lol


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Murphsox said:


> we love pictures and videos, just saying... lol


I'm not really a video person. And I didn't think you'd want to see pictures or weather stripping.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Just when I thought I was done with modifications, it dawned on my that there's one more component that I probably should upgrade. The fuel pump. So, I purchased one of AEM's E85 compatible high flow fuel pumps from ZZP. I probably won't install it until it warms up. We just got our first snowfall today.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Definitely not a bad idea - bit bigger of a pump will definitely not be a bad idea with the additional flow E85 requires. 

And yep...it snowed basically the entirety of today, though thankfully it didn't accumulate. Haven't swapped any of the DD's over to the winter tires yet because it's just...too **** early.


----------



## F18D4T (Sep 24, 2020)

PLEASE show us how you install your fuel pump! I had to hack the fuel hanger to get my AEM 340LPH to fit, under 1/4 tank I have to be careful with starving the pump in corners while wot


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

F18D4T said:


> PLEASE show us how you install your fuel pump! I had to hack the fuel hanger to get my AEM 340LPH to fit, under 1/4 tank I have to be careful with starving the pump in corners while wot


I'll do that if I remember. Realistically, I'm not expecting to install it for 5ish months. But you never know with weather.  

I should probably buy a new GM assembly and replace the pump on the bench over the winter. That strategy worked well for the cylinder head.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I'll do that if I remember. Realistically, I'm not expecting to install it for 5ish months. But you never know with weather.
> 
> I should probably buy a new GM assembly and replace the pump on the bench over the winter. That strategy worked well for the cylinder head.


It's just...so much easier to have something fully assembled you can just drop in.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> It's just...so much easier to have something fully assembled you can just drop in.


Yes it is and at least for me it cuts down on the feeling of being constrained by time.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Yes it is and at least for me it cuts down on the feeling of being constrained by time.


Precisely. Lessens the potential of "unknowns" wasting your time.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I'll do that if I remember. Realistically, I'm not expecting to install it for 5ish months. But you never know with weather.
> 
> I should probably buy a new GM assembly and replace the pump on the bench over the winter. That strategy worked well for the cylinder head.


Note to self: Set timer for 5 months....


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

This afternoon I thought it was time to check on the break-in process by checking the compression in the cylinders. I removed the ignition coil and this happened:










Crap!

So I bought a replacement Duralast coil as a temporary replacement.

Then I tested the compression of the cylinders with the engine warm. I'm happy to say that everything is looking good so far. The factory spec for compression is (174 PSI - 203 PSI) with no greater than a 14 PSI differential between cylinders. The readings I got were actually all higher than the factory specs.

Cylinder 1: 205 PSI









Cylinder 2: 210 PSI









Cylinder 3: 205 PSI









Cylinder 4: 210 PSI









Tomorrow, I'm going to dump the break-in oil, change the oil filter, and refill with conventional oil until switching to synthetic at around 500 mile mark.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Well that's nice.

Good compression though!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Well that's nice.
> 
> Good compression though!


Yeah. I was pleasantly surprised to see those readings, especially this early.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Lookin good!

GL with MSD warranty process, they screwed me around so much I just bought BNR coils.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Lookin good!
> 
> GL with MSD warranty process, they screwed me around so much I just bought BNR coils.


The MSD coil only comes with a 1 year warranty to my knowledge. It's past that. 

I havent decided exactly what I'm going to do yet.


----------



## Atstehley (Feb 11, 2019)

JLL said:


> The MSD coil only comes with a 1 year warranty to my knowledge. It's past that.
> 
> I havent decided exactly what I'm going to do yet.


If you got it from ZZP, you /may/ be able to do their "trade-in"? Not sure if they would take it since it got the old snap crackle pop.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Atstehley said:


> If you got it from ZZP, you /may/ be able to do their "trade-in"? Not sure if they would take it since it got the old snap crackle pop.


I bought it from Summit Racing.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

BNR LS7 Coil pack time


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'd be honestly surprised if anything more than stock does anything, unless the stocker is just that weak. Most newer cars, upgrading coil packs does nothing for performance. My brother's '01 Mustang GT has Accel coil packs (came on the car) and they serve no real purpose over stock other than having yellow coil packs in the engine bay.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> BNR LS7 Coil pack time


Don't I need to be tuned by BNR to use those?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'd be honestly surprised if anything more than stock does anything, unless the stocker is just that weak. Most newer cars, upgrading coil packs does nothing for performance. My brother's '01 Mustang GT has Accel coil packs (came on the car) and they serve no real purpose over stock other than having yellow coil packs in the engine bay.


I'm going to experiment with things. The Duralast coil pack has a nice gloss black appearance, so IMO it looks ok uncovered unlike the stock coil pack. I'm anticipating around 25 PSI of boost once things are dialed in. I'll be interested to see how things perform with the Duralast coil.

I didn't like the red and black look of the MSD though.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I changed the oil today. The oil was an odd color gray/black from what I'm assuming is the moly based assembly lube I used for the head. I also got the regular tune flashed. Only 400 miles until the real fun begins. Weather permitting.

I also bought ZZP'S 12.6" Big Brake Kit for Spring. It states that it *may* fit the Cruze, but ZZP has only test fitted for the Sonic. So that could be fun. Sitting for 3 months wasn't helpful for the brakes.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I can't imagine it wouldn't fit the Cruze, considering I believe the two cars use the same brakes. It also means it'd fit my Volt, which also uses the same brakes...but then I couldn't fit my little baby Sonic 15" wheels for winter.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> How choppy are those new cams? I've always considered doing a pair whenever the Cobalt gives me a reason to actually pull the engine, some of the larger ones have some major lope.


The lope is quite noticeable at idle, especially in gear.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> The lope is quite noticeable at idle, especially in gear.


Sickkkk. I want a video to hear it.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Don't I need to be tuned by BNR to use those?


No


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Blasirl said:


> No


Which just furthers my thought that likely anything over the stock coil pack doesn't provide any kind of increase.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> No


I needed a BNR tune update to run them, you sure?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Which just furthers my thought that likely anything over the stock coil pack doesn't provide any kind of increase.


I would tend to agree. Spark is spark. Either it's sufficient or it's not.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Which just furthers my thought that likely anything over the stock coil pack doesn't provide any kind of increase.


You do need a tune to use it, but BNR is not the only tuner able to tune for it. It will increase the available spark which higher boost levels will need. With normal boost levels you could open up the gap which may increase MPG.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> I needed a BNR tune update to run them, you sure?


see my response to MP81


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I would tend to agree. Spark is spark. Either it's sufficient or it's not.


It has to do with the strength of it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> It has to do with the strength of it.


As I said, there is either sufficient spark to ignition the air/fuel mixture or there is not.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

Today the car ran like 💩 until it warmed up this morning. I data logged it and it looks like there is a vacuum leak. Positive fuel trims at idle, Negative fuel trims under boost.

So, I got out my friend, the smoke machine. It's really windy today so it made progress difficult. I'm pretty sure it's not the intercooler piping this time. Tomorrow I'll keep looking.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

What kind of vac reading did you have at idle? Are you currently running E85, or just Premium?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> What kind of vac reading did you have at idle? Are you currently running E85, or just Premium?


Right now the ethonol sensor is reading 17% so it's mostly 93 Octane.

The vacuum reading is around -10 InHg at idle and almost -2 InHg in gear at idle. If I let off the gas that reading going down to -22 InHg.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Right now the ethonol sensor is reading 17% so it's mostly 93 Octane.
> 
> The vacuum reading is around -10 InHg at idle and almost -2 InHg in gear at idle. If I let off the gas that reading going down to -22 InHg.


Okay. I only ask because E85 is incredibly pissy in cold weather, especially if you have more of a summer blend.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Okay. I only ask because E85 is incredibly pissy in cold weather, especially if you have more of a summer blend.


Yes it is!


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Right now the ethonol sensor is reading 17% so it's mostly 93 Octane.
> 
> The vacuum reading is around -10 InHg at idle and almost -2 InHg in gear at idle. If I let off the gas that reading going down to -22 InHg.


Mine goes to -22 when I let off the gas after acceleration, but those other numbers are a little weak.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Mine goes to -22 when I let off the gas after acceleration, but those other numbers are a little weak.


Yes they are. I believe they should be more around -15/-18 InHg.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I'm 90% sure I found the vacuum leak. Intake Manifold vacuum at idle is right under 15 InHg. Both of the camshaft position actuator seals. were leaking. I've never replaced them because they weren't leaking oil. They looked ok, so I re-used them during the build. Darn, negative crankcase pressure.

I'm seriously contemplating doing away with GM's PCV system and trying to find a way to vent the crankcase to the atmosphere.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

Today I discovered that I have a coolant leak. Coolant was leaking at the rear of the water outlet. I had to adjust this particular clamp several times *after *I put the intake back on. I disassembled everything and sure enough, I had caused damage to the hose and cracked the water outlet slightly. I cut an inch off the end of the hose and ordered another water outlet and more coolant. Sorry no pictures today.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Looks like you need this! Sonic Coolant Neck


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Looks like you need this! Sonic Coolant Neck


NVM. Cool!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I got the new water outlet installed and the system filled with coolant. While I was double checking the coolant lines before startup and I noticed that there was a loose wire on the upper charge pipe. Upon inspection I determined that the Ethonol sensor signal wire had come out of the ECM connector. I disassembled the ECM harness and removed the pin that the wire detached from. I'm waiting on new pins before I can start the car. They should be here on Monday.

While I wait I decided to take a look inside the cylinders. It's been running ROUGH until it warms up. I may have found the culprit.










The plugs are covered in soot in under 150 miles. I decided to try some NGK Iridium BKR8EIX plugs (2 heat ranges colder than stock.) It looks like they're too cold for city driving and not sufficiently self cleaning. So I replaced them with NGK V-power BRK7E plugs (1 step colder than stock) gapped at 0.025"

Also, I bought another MSD coil despite the physical failure of the old one.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

I have no idea why the mega thread here recommends the BKR8's, I had the EXACT same issue, covered in unburnt fuel... they are just too cold of a plug. Glad you put some 7's in. MSD should warranty your old coil, did you contact them?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I have no idea why the mega thread here recommends the BKR8's, I had the EXACT same issue, covered in unburnt fuel... they are just too cold of a plug. Glad you put some 7's in. MSD should warranty your old coil, did you contact them?


No. Summit racing said it only had a 1 year warranty so I threw it away.  Maybe I was too hasty.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

The Cruze still idles like . I can't find any vacuum leaks ANYWHERE. So, the "new" theory comes from the "old" school: Thanks to the new cams, the intake and exhaust valves have too much overlap causing manifold vacuum to be insufficient at idle. Thankfully with the "modern-day" technology of Variable Valve Timing, that should be able to be adjusted in the ECM calibration.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yup, it's entirely possible that the larger cams and increased overlap are lowering your vacuum at idle just like big cams tend to...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Yup, it's entirely possible that the larger cams and increased overlap are lowering your vacuum at idle just like big cams tend to...


I'm not entirely sure how "big" these cams are. But then again we are talking about a 1.4L engine that needs a vacuum pump to create additional vacuum for the brake booster.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I'm not entirely sure how "big" these cams are. But then again we are talking about a 1.4L engine that needs a vacuum pump to create additional vacuum for the brake booster.


Yup - it doesn't take much for an engine that already doesn't produce any vacuum to begin with.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

Brian, my tuner, sent me the first calibration update for the cams. It made a some noticeable improvements. The hard start and rough idle are virtually gone.

Once the car warmed up, I took it for a short drive around the neighborhood and found out a little throttle NOW goes a long way. I'm still using premium 93 octane at the moment. It'll be interesting to see what happens when we get to the point of filling the tank with E85....


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I got the new water outlet installed and the system filled with coolant. While I was double checking the coolant lines before startup and I noticed that there was a loose wire on the upper charge pipe. Upon inspection I determined that the Ethonol sensor signal wire had come out of the ECM connector.


Hey, maybe the fixkit will take care of that for ya!😋


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> I have no idea why the mega thread here recommends the BKR8's, I had the EXACT same issue, covered in unburnt fuel... they are just too cold of a plug. Glad you put some 7's in. MSD should warranty your old coil, did you contact them?


Maybe @jblackburn can clue us in.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Hey, maybe the fixkit will take care of that for ya!😋


Why the angry face @Thebigzeus ? What did I miss?


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Why the angry face @Thebigzeus ? What did I miss?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

This is the build that Never ends,
Yes, it goes on and on my friends!
When I started building it, not knowing what it was, but I'll continue building forever just because......Some of GM's parts have poor quality control.....



Today, I fixed the same coolant leak for the 3rd time. I've replaced the water outlet and the heater house and I've finally discovered the issue. The heater hose that I bought had a clamp on it from the factory. I re-used that clamp after replacing both the water outlet and the hose. I carefully examined the clamp today and realized the one edge of the clamp was razor sharp! It would hold coolant until the rubber expanded and then the clamp would cut into the hose.

I went to my local GM dealership today and bought an older revision of the hose without a clamp and then installed it with a worm gear clamp.

Currently I'm waiting on Amazon for coolant.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> Some of GM's parts have poor quality control.....


Oh yes, we knew this! You aren't reusing your coolant? I sometimes clean a drain pan real good and use a hose from the radiator drain to reuse.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Oh yes, we knew this! You aren't reusing your coolant? I sometimes clean a drain pan real good and use a hose from the radiator drain to reuse.


No.. I figure it will help flush the radiator. It was open to the outdoor environment for 3 months, so I figure some dirt or bugs may have gotten in there.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> No.. I figure it will help flush the radiator. It was open to the outdoor environment for 3 months, so I figure some dirt or bugs may have gotten in there.











coolant passages have bugs!?!


I recently installed a 426 wedge that was rebuilt years ago. Before installing it I disassembled it to see what it looked like, and everything was new and clean. Bored out to fit std 440 pistons, heads done well, bigger exhaust valves. Installed it in a 65 satellite. New aluminum radiator new...




www.hotrodders.com










Coolant bugs?


Greetings - I've been using Cimcool 320Z without problems for a few years in my VMC. I run an aerator as well as remove tramp oil reasonably (I thought) frequently. Just looked in the bottom of the sump though with a flashlight and saw all sort of what look like white colonies the size of...



www.practicalmachinist.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

While waiting on Amazon, I found another modification in my office that I forgot I had bought. It's probably the cheapest modification I have ever done to this car at $12.

A new, colorful GM E85 fuel cap.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

+5HP!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I know. It almost adds more that all the ZZP stickers I have......on my desk.


----------



## 15CruzeTD (Oct 23, 2019)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> Brian, my tuner, sent me the first calibration update for the cams. It made a some noticeable improvements. The hard start and rough idle are virtually gone.
> 
> Once the car warmed up, I took it for a short drive around the neighborhood and found out a little throttle NOW goes a long way. I'm still using premium 93 octane at the moment. It'll be interesting to see what happens when we get to the point of filling the tank with E85....


May I ask what company does Brian your tuner work for?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

15CruzeTD said:


> May I ask what company does Brian your tuner work for?


He's the owner of Vermont Tuning.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

That gas cap reminds me, I have a sticker on my fuel door inside that reads "Premium Fuel Required" The inspector last year opened it to do the evap test and commented "hmm I've never seen one of these cars with this sticker before" I just smiled and acted dumb and shrugged


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> That gas cap reminds me, I have a sticker on my fuel door inside that reads "Premium Fuel Required" The inspector last year opened it to do the evap test and commented "hmm I've never seen one of these cars with this sticker before" I just smiled and acted dumb and shrugged


😆

Thankfully there are no inspectors where I live. Or I would have a very different Cruze.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I got everything put back together today and got the cooling system bled. So for, no coolant leaks. I'll let it sit overnight and check the water outlet for moisture in the morning.

I also trimmed the upper charge pipe silicone elbow. I wish I would of done it a year go when I installed the throttle body spacer. It's been a bitch to get back on the throttle body ever since because the length of the elbow.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

It's morning and things are still leak free. I think I got it this time. Now comes the fun part. Hitting the post build 500 mile mark so I can data log some pulls on 93 before switching over to E85.  So far, I haven't exceeded 4,000 RPM or 10 PSI of boost, which with this wastgate actuator builds with very little effort.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> It's morning and things are still leak free. I think I got it this time. Now comes the fun part. Hitting the post build 500 mile mark so I can data log some pulls on 93 before switching over to E85.  So far, I haven't exceeded 4,000 RPM or 10 PSI of boost, which with this wastgate actuator builds with very little effort.


It's gotta be hard to behave when you have a new, more powerful, engine rebuild. My brother obviously has about a 500 mile break-in on his new clutch that we installed along with the T56 Magnum we swapped in, but for him it's probably the best case as we didn't do anything extra to the engine, so there's no extra excitement of how much faster it is. 

Well, this time, at least. Godzilla may prove too tempting...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> It's gotta be hard to behave when you have a new, more powerful, engine rebuild. My brother obviously has about a 500 mile break-in on his new clutch that we installed along with the T56 Magnum we swapped in, but for him it's probably the best case as we didn't do anything extra to the engine, so there's no extra excitement of how much faster it is.
> 
> Well, this time, at least. Godzilla may prove too tempting...


It Sooooo hard not to break 50% throttle. But I’m hoping if I behave for just another 366 miles the engine will thank me.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Did you pressure test the cooling system or just let it sit?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Did you pressure test the cooling system or just let it sit?


I drove it at temperature and then let it sit overnight, Which were the conditions under which it would leak at the water outlet. What I can deduce happened was when the hose expanded, the clamp cut into the hose just enough so the it would leak under pressure when things were warm.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

Since we're into December and my car lives outside, I thought I would try something to aid startup on E85 in the cold. My definition of cold is anything below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C) living northern Indiana. I'm going to be installing a silicone pad heater to the oil pan in an attempt to help warm things up. I've never used on before so we'll see how it goes.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Winter blend _should_ have quite a bit less ethanol in it...but then again, it still hates the cold.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Winter blend _should_ have quite a bit less ethanol in it...but then again, it still hates the cold.


Last year, winter blend was ~74% ethanol compared to ~82% in the summer. I kept the mixture around 60% most of the winter by adding a few gallons of 93.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Last year, winter blend was ~74% ethanol compared to ~82% in the summer. I kept the mixture around 60% most of the winter by adding a few gallons of 93.


That definitely helps things. Having the sensor to adjust the tune makes things a lot easier.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

So, for the past couple days, I've been dealing with black soot coming from the exhaust pipe and the wonder smell of rotten eggs. 

When I had the exhaust apart the exhaust was full of soot including ZZP'S "high flow" catalytic convertor. I figured it was ok since there were no problems before and reinstalled everything.

In hindsight I'm thinking the catalytic convertor is shot.

So I bought one of ZZP'S "stock configuration" midpipes. That should fix the problem with the catalytic convertor.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

With the larger turbo, it'll likely be happier anyway.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> Since we're into December and my car lives outside, I thought I would try something to aid startup on E85 in the cold. My definition of cold is anything below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C) living northern Indiana. I'm going to be installing a silicone pad heater to the oil pan in an attempt to help warm things up. I've never used on before so we'll see how it goes.
> 
> View attachment 295134


Kind of pricey. How much was a stock heater? Just so you know, it really won't warm the interior any faster. You will also need to watch for P0116, P0117 and P0118 among others.
Another alternative





TDIHeater - order.htm


TDIHeater.com



www.frostheater.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Kind of pricey. How much was a stock heater? Just so you know, it really won't warm the interior any faster. You will also need to watch for P0116, P0117 and P0118 among others.
> Another alternative
> 
> 
> ...


The stock heater would have been around $150. The one I bought was on $85. I'm not looking to heat the interior faster. I'm just looking to try to ease cold starts.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> The stock heater would have been around $150. The one I bought was on $85. I'm not looking to heat the interior faster. I'm just looking to try to ease cold starts.


Hell, you might benefit from a tank heater, too. 

Or, switch to 93 for the winter.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Hell, you might benefit from a tank heater, too.
> 
> Or, switch to 93 for the winter.


I tried to find a tank heater, but I was thinking it was poly


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE :*

Today I installed the new "stock configuration" midepipe. Sometimes less is more!










It seems to have fixed my hard starting issue, at least for now. Manifold pressure at idle is -16 in-Hg now. I disassembled the old midpipe and took a look at the "high flow" catalytic convertor. It doesn't look so high flow now. The honeycombs are all caked with a white crust.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Holy ****, yep, that's toast...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

Today I hooked back up my oil catch can. I made some improvements such as properly fitting AN10 braided cover hose, and an improved check valve for the PCV turbo end. I could suck a little air through the stock one.
Don't mind the work gear clamps. Ugly, but they get the job done until I can find the correct sized constant tension clamps.



















Runs great, and smells like my dad's old FORCE 70 HP outboard. Which reminds me of the annual summer fishing trips in northern Minnesota when I was a child. (Ok, I went almost every year until I was 30 but you get the idea.)


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Have you cranked it up yet?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Have you cranked it up yet?


Nope. 😥 Not until the 500 mile post build mark. Then I can change the oil with synthetic, do some hard acceleration, and data log. Right now, I'm at 200 miles post build. Now that it's running better I should be able to put more miles on it. If I'm patient, the internals should thank me.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

Only 100 mile to go until I can see what it can do, which I hope to cover tomorrow and then change the oil on Thursday. But in the meantime, I bought some new stuff this week. Nothing huge or earth shattering but my gut told me they were worth it.

ZZP's 65mm Throttle Body


----------



## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

will you try to port / match the intake manifold at the throttle body too ?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> will you try to port / match the intake manifold at the throttle body too ?


I'll need to disassemble and take measurements before I know if that’s possible or needed.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> Today I hooked back up my oil catch can. I made some improvements such as properly fitting AN10 braided cover hose, and an improved check valve for the PCV turbo end. I could suck a little air through the stock one.
> Don't mind the work gear clamps. Ugly, but they get the job done until I can find the correct sized constant tension clamps.
> ...


What are the hose diameters?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> What are the hose diameters?


AN10 is 9/16" ID. I had to step up to 5/8" ID for the intake and turbo end fittings.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> AN10 is 9/16" ID. I had to step up to 5/8" ID for the intake and turbo end fittings.











1.83US $ 53% OFF|Hex Hose Finisher Clamp With Screw Band Hose End Cover Fitting 4 6 8 10 12an Oil Fuel Hose Clamp End Hose Aluminum Connectors - Hoses & Clamps - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I changed the oil yesterday with fully synthetic oil. The oil filter caught the rest of the moly assembly lube. The filter was grey as could be. The car idles much better now. I'm not sure of the filter was lower oil pressure enough to effect the VVT actuators, the break in oil I was using, affected them, or maybe a combination of both.

So today, I logged some full throttle runs on 93. Boost and acceleration were very irratic. I sent the log to my tuner and took a look at it myself. The throttle is closing down at full throttle position. I don’t expect to hear from my tuner until Monday but, to me it looks like the engine is surpassing the torque limit set in the ECM or TCM calibration and is partially closing the throttle to stay under that limit.


----------



## F18D4T (Sep 24, 2020)

That would definitely be the torque exceeding a limit somewhere. Battled with it in mine for a little bit. Driver demand/max torque need to align and you do NOT want to hack the torque model to get it to work


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I've been noticing that Intake Manifold vacuum at idle is less when the HVAC is on. I've come to the conclusion that the alternator is consuming additional load, as it should, so I decided to finally do a modification that a lot of people do as 1st modification due to it's low cost and ease of installation. The Big 3 Wiring kit. 

I bought mine from XtremeRevolution on cruzekits.com. It's a little more expensive from him vs. ZZP but I believe the quality will be better. I guess I'll see.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I've been noticing that Intake Manifold vacuum at idle is less when the HVAC is on. I've come to the conclusion that the alternator is consuming additional load, as it should, so I decided to finally do a modification that a lot of people do as 1st modification due to it's low cost and ease of installation. The Big 3 Wiring kit.
> 
> ...


That is the kit I have on mine.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*
My tuner got back with me today. The boost control needs adjustment. But wouldn't you know it, I already used up my 4 calibration updates and data log reviews I purchased in April. Time to chalk up another $350 in custom tuning fees.

No one works for free!

Tomorrow I'll fill up with E85, and hopefully my next ECM update will be completed along with the TCM update raising the shift points. ( 72 LB valve springs).


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

To me, sure doesn't sound like that's a _you_ update - updates to make the car run right shouldn't exactly fall under that category.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> To me, sure doesn't sound like that's a _you_ update - updates to make the car run right shouldn't exactly fall under that category.


The last update did make the car run right. I think the issue is how I asked him to do my calibrations. I paid for 3 calibration updates back in April.

Calibration #1: Initial break in tune I requested. Used for the first 20 minutes of operation.

Calibration #2: Low power break-in I requested. Used for the first 100 miles.

Calibration #3: Regular Flex Tune a getting the ZZP Cams to idle right.

I think I'm the first customer he's seen with ZZP cams so I can't fault him for charging for his time.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ahh, I see. To me though, any further tweak to Calibration 3 is _not_ Calibration 4 unless you've requested something significantly changed and not just corrections. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Ahh, I see. To me though, any further tweak to Calibration 3 is _not_ Calibration 4 unless you've requested something significantly changed and not just corrections. 🤷‍♂️


I'm not sure how the tuning process works with modern ECM controls but everytime I ask him a technical question he writes me a book and follows it up with an email second book. Thank goodness I went to engineering school back in the day. 

Why, back in the day, when I last did any tuning it was in the early days of OBDII on my 1996 Oldsmobile.😆


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

Its like the old biker saying. Gas, grass, or ass NOBODY RIDES FOR FREE


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*
I'm on my second calibration revision since my last update. This is the best the car has run in a year under normal driving conditions, especially at idle. At WOT, it's a different story. The engine is being limited, not by the ECM or TCM, but by the fuel system. The engine is now flowing air at 180 g/s compared to 130 g/s in a log taken one year ago. At that rate the 465 cc (~43 Lb) injectors are now going static and the 7 year old stock fuel pump can't keep up with demand.

When the weather warms, I'll be upgrading to the Deatschwerks 650 cc (~62 Lb) injectors. As well as installing the AEM High Flow E85 Rated Fuel Pump I have.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

Going to a bigger pump and injectors make sure your lines can handle the flow. You might need to go up in fuel line size.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Valpo Cruze said:


> Going to a bigger pump and injectors make sure your lines can handle the flow. You might need to go up in fuel line size.


I didn't think of that. Thanks for the post.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> I'm on my second calibration revision since my last update. This is the best the car has run in a year under normal driving conditions, especially at idle. At WOT, it's a different story. The engine is being limited, not by the ECM or TCM, but by the fuel system. The engine is now flowing air at 180 g/s compared to 130 g/s in a log taken one year ago. At that rate the 465 cc (~43 Lb) injectors are now going static and the 7 year old stock fuel pump can't keep up with demand.
> 
> When the weather warms, I'll be upgrading to the Deatschwerks 650 cc (~62 Lb) injectors. As well as installing the AEM High Flow E85 Rated Fuel Pump I have.


What about trying this??? BNR Fuel Pump Control Module 2011-2019 GM LUJ/LUV 1.4T-BNR-L Based on the reviews it appears it would solve your problem if your tuner can tune for it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> What about trying this??? BNR Fuel Pump Control Module 2011-2019 GM LUJ/LUV 1.4T-BNR-L Based on the reviews it appears it would solve your problem if your tuner can tune for it.


My fuel pump will hit 70 PSI, but it won't hold it during WOT. I'll ask my tuner about it, but I think he may have found a way to get around it if the fuel pump is getting to 70 PSI.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> My fuel pump will hit 70 PSI, but it won't hold it during WOT. I'll ask my tuner about it, but I think he may have found a way to get around it if the fuel pump is getting to 70 PSI.


Nice, worth an ask at least! Seems like the cheapest route.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Nice, worth an ask at least! Seems like the cheapest route.


Oh, I'm going to need the bigger injectors and the fuel pump.

But more on that in a week or so.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

@Cruzin2011 once asked me if the V3 was going to be big enough for my ambitions. My response at the time was: "I sure hope so". It is with humility, I admit that I was incorrect. Not, to say that the V3 is a bad turbo, for most people I believe it would be more than adequate. The is a night and day difference in driveability. Realistically it is limiting me to crank ~ 240 HP because it will not flow enough exhaust to support much more than that. My engine as I built it can handle more than that. My new goal: 300+ HP. So, I've began purchasing for stage 2 of my engine build for Spring/Summer 2022. The bulk of stage 2 will be custom fabrication. Except for this:

The Garrett G25-550. Arriving soon.








@Thebigzeus , @MP81 , @Blasirl

For those who may be interested I will be selling my V3 turbo in a few months for whatever the buyer thinks is a fair price at the mileage of sale.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> @Cruzin2011 once asked me if the V3 was going to be big enough for my ambitions. My response at the time was: "I sure hope so". It is with humility, I admit that I was incorrect. Not, to say that the V3 is a bad turbo, for most people I believe it would be more than adequate. The is a night and day difference in driveability. Realistically it is limiting me to crank ~ 240 HP because it will not flow enough exhaust to support much more than that. My engine as I built it can handle more than that. My new goal: 300+ HP. So, I've began purchasing for stage 2 of my engine build for Spring/Summer 2022. The bulk of stage 2 will be custom fabrication. Except for this:
> 
> ...


Very nice! Yeah I may be, seems like lots of the V3's are having bearing failure issues prematurely issues though and ZZP is refusing to cover them. Other than that, I am interested.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Very nice! Yeah I may be, seems like lots of the V3's are having bearing failure issues prematurely issues though and ZZP is refusing to cover them. Other than that, I am interested.


I'll message you when I get the V3 removed, I can't imagine it'll have any more than 2,500 mile on it by May.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I bought a few more components today for part two of my build. I discovered Go Fast Bits in my college days during my turbocharged Oldsmobile project. IMO quality stuff.

GFB 🇦🇺 Hybrid BOV 









RacerX Intake Manifold


----------



## F18D4T (Sep 24, 2020)

GFB make great quality parts, Aussie made  Nice turbo choice too, I'm at the point where I either want to upgrade turbos or say hello to a V8 and keep the Cruze around for track days etc


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

F18D4T said:


> GFB make great quality parts, Aussie made  Nice turbo choice too, I'm at the point where I either want to upgrade turbos or say hello to a V8 and keep the Cruze around for track days etc


The turbo was a recommendation from my tuner. I bought a different turbo before I consulted him and found out what I bought was too big for a 1.4L.
I'm selling it on ebay of your interested. It will be gone in 4 days!









New In Box. For Auction on Ebay. NO RESERVE Borgwarner...


I'm selling this Borg Warner turbo supercore on eBay. It is too big to work on a street driven 1.4L engine but may fit a 1.8L or 2 0L. I originally bought it for my 1.4L but it's too big and I can't return it. ZZP sells the complete turbo for Cobalts for $840. Starting bid $199. NO RESERVE...




www.cruzetalk.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I've decided to convert the entire fuel system to support properly E85, not just the pump and the injectors. I'm going to go with larger diameter fuel hose and add a return line. I also bought some more goodies.

RacerX Fuel Rail + Bosch Style FPR Adapter








Pressure regulator not included 









GFB Fuel Pressure Regulator (Bosch Style)








GFB Fuel Pressure Guage


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Are you building a Cruze or a race car?!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Are you building a Cruze or a race car?!


The rabbit hole runs deep. The more I modify, the more I know I need to modify to maintain reliability.

But to answer your question, You could say I'm building a streetable race car.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)




----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

With the addition of the RacerX Intake Manifold, it dawned on me that with an aftermarket turbo I can plug the PCV hole in the new manifold and vent the crankcase to atmosphere. So I bought a breather cap that was designed for the Buick Encore. It requires the filler neck extension that's found on the 2015 and 2016 1.4L LUV in the Cruze and later in the Encore. It's a modified PCV valve breather that takes the place of the oil cap. I has a similar breather on my turbocharged Oldsmobile.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> With the addition of the RacerX Intake Manifold, it dawned on me that with an aftermarket turbo I can plug the PCV hole in the new manifold and vent the crankcase to atmosphere. So I bought a breather cap that was designed for the Buick Encore. It requires the filler neck extension that's found on the 2015 and 2016 1.4L LUV in the Cruze and later in the Encore. It's a modified PCV valve breather that takes the place of the oil cap. I has a similar breather on my turbocharged Oldsmobile.
> 
> View attachment 295660


So what is now fulfilling the role of a daily driver?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> So what is now fulfilling the role of a daily driver?


The Cruze. Nothing's being installed until spring. We still have our HHR but we don't drive much.
We also don't have emissions testing where I live.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> The Cruze. Nothing's being installed until spring. We still have our HHR but we don't drive much.
> We also don't have emissions testing where I live.


I'm in a very similar predicament.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I'm in a very similar predicament.


Working from home really cuts down on the driving.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I thought I'd give an update for the week. I've bought a bunch of "boring", but nessisary, stuff this week.

3" MAF Housing and Air Straightener
















4AN, 6AN, and 10AN PTFE line. Stainless steel covered for oil. Black nylon covered for Coolant.
















Fittings for the oil/coolant lines.








Custom machined oil feed and drain fittings


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

Today I bought something that I consider somewhat controversial. The G25-550 will be my first ball-bearing turbo. Aftermarket Ball-bearing turbos unlike Aftermarket journal bearing turbos do not require a lot of oil. Garrett states that the inlet oil pressure of a ball-bearing turbo should be no more than 40 - 45 PSI maximum. So, I bought an oil pressure regulator specifically for ball-bearing turbo. It mounts inline of the oil feed limiting the oil pressure to the turbo to 40 PSI. Thoughts?

Turbosmart OPRT40 "Sleeper Edition" (aka black  )


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

I read some articles on the G25 and I am a big fan of it , wish they made a more simple bolt on for the 1.4L I would hundos buy it but I can’t wait to see this build come a long.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> I read some articles on the G25 and I am a big fan of it , wish they made a more simple bolt on for the 1.4L I would hundos buy it but I can’t wait to see this build come a long.


It's all custom fabrication. I saw on a Sonic forum that back in the 2013-2016 time frame there were a few fabrication shops making bolt on big turbo kits for Sonics for around $5,000. But not anymore.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> It's all custom fabrication. I saw on a Sonic forum that back in the 2013-2016 time frame there were a few fabrication shops making bolt on big turbo kits for Sonics for around $5,000. But not anymore.


Hahahah ya they prob gave up LOL, I ain’t tho hahah , for now I’ll be satisfied with zzp v3 until I can build up my internals more for a custom setup just gotta find a decent shop


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

Here's a weekly parts update. I bought more AN hoses, fittings, coolant, and an oil pressure gauge that mounts on the turbo oil pressure regulator. The only thing really worth posting a picture of is the gauge.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Also in its' way:

10 Micron Fuel Filter.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> Also in its' way:
> 
> 10 Micron Fuel Filter.
> View attachment 295939


Was looking into these, is this an in-line fuel filter before the injectors ? These get installed in the engine bay right im obly familiar with the filters under the car near gas tank


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> Was looking into these, is this an in-line fuel filter before the injectors ? These get installed in the engine bay right im obly familiar with the filters under the car near gas tank


It can be installed anywhere post fuel pump. It's got AN fittings so you'll need to use AN fuel line or adapters but I'm not sure how that would effect flow. I'm probably going to put mine under the car by the tank.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> It can be installed anywhere post fuel pump. It's got AN fittings so you'll need to use AN fuel line or adapters but I'm not sure how that would effect flow. I'm probably going to put mine under the car by the tank.


Thanks for this info. Good to know !


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> Thanks for this info. Good to know !


Your welcome


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*One Part Closer:*

Bought a new stock fuel pump assembly so I can retrofit it for the AEM high flow Ethanol pump.

Stock Fuel Pump Assembly:










AEM High Flow Fuel Ethonol Pump:


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That looks to be the same one they sell for the Cobalts - was looking at that, but ended up getting the special coverage work (unlimited time and mileage!) performed that solved the issue on mine. Bet it was a little unusual for them given it is very much not a normal LT anymore haha.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> That looks to be the same one they sell for the Cobalts - was looking at that, but ended up getting the special coverage work (unlimited time and mileage!) performed that solved the issue on mine. Bet it was a little unusual for them given it is very much not a normal LT anymore haha.


It's a universal fuel pump so I'm sure it is.

Cobalts has special coverage on fuel pumps?

Mine worked flawlessly for 10 years and 155,000 miles.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> It's a universal fuel pump so I'm sure it is.
> 
> Cobalts has special coverage on fuel pumps?
> 
> Mine worked flawlessly for 10 years and 155,000 miles.


It's the "fuel pump module". It'll crack and leak. Mine was starting to have starting issues - minor at first, but eventually would get a little more concerning (it'd take a good number of cycles to finally start), and then it started to smell like fuel, and eventually started to finally drip on the ground.



https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/SB-10089884-2280.pdf



Fixed free of charge and all those issues went away. They actually replaced the entire fuel tank and filler, as part of the repair, too.


----------



## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> @Cruzin2011 once asked me if the V3 was going to be big enough for my ambitions. My response at the time was: "I sure hope so". It is with humility, I admit that I was incorrect. Not, to say that the V3 is a bad turbo, for most people I believe it would be more than adequate. The is a night and day difference in driveability. Realistically it is limiting me to crank ~ 240 HP because it will not flow enough exhaust to support much more than that. My engine as I built it can handle more than that. My new goal: 300+ HP. So, I've began purchasing for stage 2 of my engine build for Spring/Summer 2022. The bulk of stage 2 will be custom fabrication. Except for this:
> 
> ...


That thing should put some power down!!! The V3 works for me quite well and I’m only running 20-22psi. I have moved from Florida to PA and the car didn’t like the really cold weather so I just had ZZP update the tune and man what a difference 2 years makes. Car runs better now than it did when it was originally tuned.

Only thing I have to do is go through and add my DTC errors codes that I have turned off. Of course I don’t remember them but I do know that HP tuning software can do a comparison and I need to find out how to do that.

Can’t wait to see your car done JLL! Now that I’m a lot closer to ZZP I will be getting the cams done in the spring time and I am thinking of coil overs.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> That thing should put some power down!!! The V3 works for me quite well and I’m only running 20-22psi. I have moved from Florida to PA and the car didn’t like the really cold weather so I just had ZZP update the tune and man what a difference 2 years makes. Car runs better now than it did when it was originally tuned.
> 
> Only thing I have to do is go through and add my DTC errors codes that I have turned off. Of course I don’t remember them but I do know that HP tuning software can do a comparison and I need to find out how to do that.
> 
> Can’t wait to see your car done JLL! Now that I’m a lot closer to ZZP I will be getting the cams done in the spring time and I am thinking of coil overs.


I'm just itching for nicer weather, which is at least 2 months away. But that's ok, because some of my parts won't be finished until mid-March.

The G25-550 is sized for 300 - 550 HP by Garrett. Obviously, I'm planning to be on the lower end of that spectrum as I don't want to break the crankshaft in two. 

Driving a lowered Cruze is great. It lowers the center of gravity reducing body roll. I was a little concerned about winter but it hasn't been a problem.


----------



## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I'm just itching for nicer weather, which is at least 2 months away. But that's ok, because some of my parts won't be finished until mid-March.
> 
> The G25-550 is sized for 300 - 550 HP by Garrett. Obviously, I'm planning to be on the lower end of that spectrum as I don't want to break the crankshaft in two.
> 
> Driving a lowered Cruze is great. It lowers the center of gravity reducing body roll. I was a little concerned about winter but it hasn't been a problem.


No issues with coil overs? What brand do you have?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Driving a lowered Cruze is great. It lowers the center of gravity reducing body roll. I was a little concerned about winter but it hasn't been a problem.


Yeah, you get used to a lowered car in the snow - drove my Cobalt, lowered, in multiple winters (on UHP A/S tires) and it was fine.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> No issues with coil overs? What brand do you have?


I don't have coilovers. I have Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs.


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## Cruzin2011 (Jul 5, 2020)

JLL said:


> I don't have coilovers. I have Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs.
> 
> View attachment 296037


Man that looks good, how is the ride?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzin2011 said:


> Man that looks good, how is the ride?


I have Koni sport shocks and struts. So, the ride is firm. Not rattle your teeth out firm, but firm.


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> I don't have coilovers. I have Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs.
> 
> View attachment 296037


JLL, I remember you from back in the day on cruzetalk and this is the very first time im ever seeing your cruze lol, nice and clean! And that AEM is a great unit! I ran a similar AEM on my subie with ZERO complaints and did look into that exact kit for my cruze as well!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> JLL, I remember you from back in the day on cruzetalk and this is the very first time im ever seeing your cruze lol, nice and clean! And that AEM is a great unit! I ran a similar AEM on my subie with ZERO complaints and did look into that exact kit for my cruze as well!


You might be thinking of someone else. I joined the forum in 2017 and was never on it. I didn't make my first post until August 2020 believe it or not. 

Take a look through this thread. There lots of pictures.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> You might be thinking of someone else. I joined the forum in 2017 and was never on it. I didn't make my first post until August 2020 believe it or not.
> 
> Take a look through this thread. There lots of pictures.


oh sh*t , 100% someone else then but who cares you still cool lol


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> oh sh*t , 100% someone else then but who cares you still cool lol


You bet!


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## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

Sure, its the new nuclear way I see whats going on


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*Weekly* *Update:*

I didn't buy anything this week but I did get something that I've been waiting for. Not exciting but needed.

1.5" Weld-In Aluminum BOV Adaptor


----------



## landrystephane92 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm still debating myself if I'm going the BOV route of the bypass route usually seen with superchargers. I'm thinking of BOV because I can better control maximum boost, but bypass is the usual go-to for SCs


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

landrystephane92 said:


> I'm still debating myself if I'm going the BOV route of the bypass route usually seen with superchargers. I'm thinking of BOV because I can better control maximum boost, but bypass is the usual go-to for SCs


I'm using a hybrid blow off valve because the 1.4L is sensitive to metered air loss. I'm first going to set it up 50/50 Recirculation/Blow-Off and see how that goes. If that doesn't go well then I can switch to full Recirculation on the valve.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I'm using a hybrid blow off valve because the 1.4L is sensitive to metered air loss. I'm first going to set it up 50/50 Recirculation/Blow-Off and see how that goes. If that doesn't go well then I can switch to full Recirculation on the valve.


How are all these people running forge atmospheric BOV's then? Genuine question.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> How are all these people running forge atmospheric BOV's then? Genuine question.


To be honest I actually don't think I can name anyone, other than you, successfully using an atmosphere valve without any problems.

Is anyone fully venting to atmosphere and not encountering any issues?


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> To be honest I actually don't think I can name anyone, other than you, successfully using an atmosphere valve without any problems.
> 
> Is anyone fully venting to atmosphere and not encountering any issues?


It makes fuel trims go rich (negative) for a second or two I notice, but that's about it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> It makes fuel trims go rich (negative) for a second or two I notice, but that's about it.


I might change my mind and go full atmospheric. I'll see. I created a thread and poll about it.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I mean, unless you're running an absurd amount of boost, I'm not sure why you'd run atmospheric versus a bypass to retain most of the boost you've already made...?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I mean, unless you're running an absurd amount of boost, I'm not sure why you'd run atmospheric versus a bypass to retain most of the boost you've already made...?


That is a good thought. However, the blown off air enters the intake piping before the turbo inlet on my setup so it has to get re-compressed anyway. Does that make sense? I don't know. It's been a LONG day! 

I'll probably keep what I have since I've already bought the parts for my 50/50 setup.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> That is a good thought. However, the blown off air enters the intake piping before the turbo inlet on my setup so it has to get re-compressed anyway. Does that make sense? I don't know. It's been a LONG day!
> 
> I'll probably keep what I have since I've already bought the parts for my 50/50 setup.


yes it does to me at least. 😆


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I received a picture today of something I've waited 2 months for, my freshly welded custom exhaust manifold. It still needs to be cleaned up and coated in silver Cerakote, at my request, but I wanted to share my excitement.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ceramic coating is magic.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Ceramic coating is magic.


That's why I requested it. There's no way I'm putting an uncoated carbon steel exhaust manifold under the hood without being coated.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> That's why I requested it. There's no way I'm putting an uncoated carbon steel exhaust manifold under the hood without being coated.


I only ever run ceramic coated headers in my vehicles, and always suggest anyone do as such. The massive difference in underhood temps is incredible - and it's extremely helpful if you need to work nearby shortly after the car is turned off, because they're merely only warm roughly 15 minutes after shutting the engine down.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> To be honest I actually don't think I can name anyone, other than you, successfully using an atmosphere valve without any problems.
> 
> Is anyone fully venting to atmosphere and not encountering any issues?


Everything I have read indicates it can be taken care of in the tuning.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

@MP81 , What are you thoughts on ceramic coating the compressor and turbine housings vs. A quality thermal blanket? I can get the coating done professionally for the same price as a quality custom blanket.

My thought is the larger turbo will be fairly close to the cooling fan and some other electronics. I'm thinking it may generate too much radiant heat.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> @MP81 , What are you thoughts on ceramic coating the compressor and turbine housings vs. A quality thermal blanket? I can get the coating done professionally for the same price as a quality custom blanket.
> 
> My thought is the larger turbo will be fairly close to the cooling fan and some other electronics. I'm thinking it may generate too much radiant heat.


I've not had much experience with ceramic coating the wheel(s) or the housing, though I can't imagine it would be _bad_. Now the turbo blanket really couldn't hurt, especially being bigger - I'd say that would be a good route to go, but as to how it compares to ceramic coating of at least the housing, I couldn't say...wonder if someone has done comparisons...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I've not had much experience with ceramic coating the wheel(s) or the housing, though I can't imagine it would be _bad_. Now the turbo blanket really couldn't hurt, especially being bigger - I'd say that would be a good route to go, but as to how it compares to ceramic coating of at least the housing, I couldn't say...wonder if someone has done comparisons...


I've looked and I can't find any comparison. I would only have the housings done. I just can't wrap my head around wrapping fabric around an exhaust component, even if it is fire resistant.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I've looked and I can't find any comparison. I would only have the housings done. I just can't wrap my head around wrapping fabric around an exhaust component, even if it is fire resistant.


I wouldn't be too wary - header wrap is super widely used. But, at that point, I'd just do ceramic coating...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

Due to space restraints, I bought a new V-Band adapter set for my GFB Hybrid Blow Off Valve. $120 shipped from Australia. Original I was going to attach it with a 1.5" Aluminum collar and a silicone coupler. The new mounting setup will save me 3".

My Original Mounting Idea:









New Mounting Setup:

















What it might look like (my piping is black, the valve pictured is setup for full atmospheric venting):


----------



## landrystephane92 (Jan 3, 2012)

interesting piece of kit.

with all your pretty things, I hope the supercharger I put my hands on is decent


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

landrystephane92 said:


> interesting piece of kit.
> 
> with all your pretty things, I hope the supercharger I put my hands on is decent


I'm definitely following you build. I don't know of anyone who's attempted a supercharged build.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Ohhh I wish there was a vband like that for the stock downpipe, the stock one is prone to snapping.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I bought several small items this week, but they are essential to my new build. I'll start with the turbo mounting hardware. The T2 flange that the machinist used to fabricate the exhaust manifold had a non-standard bolt size for T25 turbos. The holes in the manifold flange are M10x1.50. The holes in the G25-550 are standard sized at 8mm. This combination requires step studs and nuts.

Grade 8.8 M10 to M8 Step Studs and M8x1.25 Flange Nuts



















The other 3 item I bought were for the installation of the OPR-40 (Oil Pressure Regulator). With the addition of the oil pressure regulator, the .035" oil restrictor that came with the center housing needs to be replaced with an unrestricted 4AN fitting and the regulator has to be able to drain to the block separately from the turbo oil drain. I've decided to use the crankshaft timing plug hole as the OPR oil drain. To do so I needed some unique fittings.

Unrestricted Turbo Oil Feed Fitting









OPR Drain Fittings. M20x1.5 to 1/8 NPT.









1/8 NPT to 4AN Fitting


----------



## Jimster480 (11 mo ago)

JLL said:


> @MP81 , What are you thoughts on ceramic coating the compressor and turbine housings vs. A quality thermal blanket? I can get the coating done professionally for the same price as a quality custom blanket.
> 
> My thought is the larger turbo will be fairly close to the cooling fan and some other electronics. I'm thinking it may generate too much radiant heat.


I didn't have a problem with that with my civic. However the fan shroud is metal, not sure about the cruze one. Turbo blankets help with spool times and radiant heat so it's a good idea.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> I didn't have a problem with that with my civic. However the fan shroud is metal, not sure about the cruze one. Turbo blankets help with spool times and radiant heat so it's a good idea.


The entire fan assembly is made of abs plastic.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> Ohhh I wish there was a vband like that for the stock downpipe, the stock one is prone to snapping.


That looks like a Tri-Clover clamp knockoff.









SS304 Heavy Duty Tri-Clover Clamp - Single Pin - Cut and Couple


304 Stainless Steel single pin hinged Tri-Clover Clamp with cross hole wing nut.




www.cutandcouple.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> That looks like a Tri-Clover clamp knockoff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oooo, a wing nut. I like.

*STORY TIME:*

The bald man vs. The hidden 1.5mm set screw.

Once upon a time in a land called Indiana, there was a man, a bald man, who had dreams of upgrading the turbo on his car. One day, the man realized that the blow off valve setup he had envisioned, wasn't going to work, so he ordered some parts that would. When the parts got to his house he was eager to test fit them. Looking at the new part the bald man deduced that the old blow off valve inlet simply screwed off and the new one screwed on.

So he gripped the old inlet firmly and twisted with all his might. The inlet didn't budge. I must be getting weak he thought. So he grabbed an 18 inch pipe wrench thinking how it would be easy with the wrench. He put the pipe on the inlet, and pulled. Nothing. He pulled harder. Still nothing. He pulled with all his might and the inlet move....A quarter turn.

Alright! The bald man though, I can take it off by hand now. He attempted to take it off by hand and nothing. Knowing that something must be wrong he started disassembling the blow off valve. What he found was astonishing. The tiniest set screw in the world, hidden behind the recirculation port.

Ok. Let's skip to the end. After 20 more minutes of using a pipe wrench and after demolishing the threads on the old inlet, VICTORY!

New inlet installed. Old inlet on the left. The new one screwed on and off in 15 seconds without the set screw installed.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

That is a thing of beauty


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Valpo Cruze said:


> That is a thing of beauty


That's what I thought. GFB makes some good quality stuff.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

JLL said:


> @MP81 , What are you thoughts on ceramic coating the compressor and turbine housings vs. A quality thermal blanket? I can get the coating done professionally for the same price as a quality custom blanket.
> 
> My thought is the larger turbo will be fairly close to the cooling fan and some other electronics. I'm thinking it may generate too much radiant heat.



Don't coat the comp housing .. it needs to be able to release heat, definitely the turbine housing though. as far as blankets my experience with wrapping the turbine housing is that it holds moisture and causes rusting.. yep im still here looking in now and again just not as much as I had been .


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Don't coat the comp housing .. it needs to be able to release heat, definitely the turbine housing though. as far as blankets my experience with wrapping the turbine housing is that it holds moisture and causes rusting.. yep im still here looking in now and again just not as much as I had been .


@Mr_Pat is alive!


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

popping over to troll around while im ordering more parts to fix the cruze.. Knocking out as many preventable things as I can think of since Im going to have the motor in pieces.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

Yesterday, I bought what will hopefully be my first and only round of custom tuning for the new turbo setup. $450 worth. It comes with up to 4 calibration updates with data log analysis.

Today I disassembled the G25-550 and took the turbine housing in to get professionally coated with Cerakote. The new G series design make it SUPER easy for disassembly. Pardon my messy desk.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

After some more research and independent thought, I called up the shop doing my Cerakote and asked if it was too late to bring in my compressor housing to add to the particular color batch that the turbine is being coated with. They said they weren't firing the prep oven on that batch until tonight, so I quickly disassembled the rest of the turbo and took in the compressor housing. Now my turbo is naked. Ooo La La....... 

Pics coming soon.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Now my turbo is naked. Ooo La La.......
> 
> Pics coming soon.


As long as it's just the turbo.


----------



## HatchBatch (Jun 21, 2019)

This looks like a great build! I have run a ball bearing Garrett turbo before and yes, it needs that restrictor, but those turbos are things of magic. I could literally spin the wheel by blowing on it, and this was a GT35R, more weight to spin. you won't regret the choice.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

HatchBatch said:


> This looks like a great build! I have run a ball bearing Garrett turbo before and yes, it needs that restrictor, but those turbos are things of magic. I could literally spin the wheel by blowing on it, and this was a GT35R, more weight to spin. you won't regret the choice.


Even with an oil pressure regulator?


----------



## HatchBatch (Jun 21, 2019)

JLL said:


> Even with an oil pressure regulator?


So you are saying you have a regulator beyond the factory engine oil pressure regulating system? My experience with the GT35R was on a Mitsu 2.0l back in the day. the engine would produce up to 100psi of oil pressure (utilizing the factory regulation), and like you mentioned, the garrett ball bearing turbos only want to see a fraction of that, 35 psi or so max? They are so efficient at spinning they need very little oil, just enough to keep a good continuous flow to help with cooling (along with the obvious lubrication), but they don't need any where near as much as a journal bearing. 

If you have an additional pressure regulator over and beyond the stock oiling system I would still think you want the restrictor for the turbo as the rest of the engine will still want that 90+psi at heavy loads but the turbo never will. 

maybe I am missing something though.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I'll be installing the Turbosmart OPR-T40 inline of the turbo oil feed. It bleeds off anything over 40 psi. It has great reviews for ball bearing turbos. Turbosmart recommends using an unrestricted feed fitting with their product. I bought a Guage for it for verification that it indeed providing 40PSI. Garrett recommends 40-45 PSI with the G25.


----------



## HatchBatch (Jun 21, 2019)

Ah that is a nice piece, sorry I missed that when reading through your thread. Yea I would think that would be good and you don't want any further restrictors in place.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

HatchBatch said:


> Ah that is a nice piece, sorry I missed that when reading through your thread. Yea I would think that would be good and you don't want any further restrictors in place.


That's was my thinking too.

No need to apologize, this is a BIG thread.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> No need to apologize, this is a BIG thread.


As opposed to what??


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> As opposed to what??


90% of the other building threads. That I've seen anyway.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> 90% of the other building threads. That I've seen anyway.


Oh I thought you meant your "little" thread!


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm still awaiting pornographic turbo photos.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'm still awaiting pornographic turbo photos.


Right now I'm sheltering the rotating assembly from myself. I've been told I can get a little rough sometimes. I'll give you a teaser though. This is Garrett's center core rebuild kit for the G25-550.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

Today I realized I didn't have all the parts for my new build.  So I fixed that and bought a bunch of fuel line fittings. 

4 of these:









2 of both of these:


















And 1 of these:


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I got my parts back from being ceramic coated.

I'm sexy and I Know it....


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Custom oil feed and drain fittings










Assembling and clocking the turbo:


----------



## landrystephane92 (Jan 3, 2012)

crazy how it goes up fast with fittings huh?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

landrystephane92 said:


> crazy how it goes up fast with fittings huh?


Yeah, but I still have to fabricate the lines. That being said, I could have bought pre-fabricated lines but I didn't want too much length.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)




----------



## landrystephane92 (Jan 3, 2012)

JLL said:


> Yeah, but I still have to fabricate the lines. That being said, I could have bought pre-fabricated lines but I didn't want too much length.


I have a big history with water cooling computer (search Duality92) and I've bought so many fittings. It just adds up so fast and costs so much.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


>


Don't forget the lotion....

Dry skin is bad.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

landrystephane92 said:


> I have a big history with water cooling computer (search Duality92) and I've bought so many fittings. It just adds up so fast and costs so much.


Yes it does.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

Nice !!!! Did you get a local shop to fab up the exhaust manifold ? They did an awesome job I might do a big turbo instead of the zzp v3…. How is it connecting the factory drain and coolant lines ? Do you bend tyem yourself as I never did a turbo swap before anything helps , thanks JLL build is looking sweet btw


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> Nice !!!! Did you get a local shop to fab up the exhaust manifold ? They did an awesome job I might do a big turbo instead of the zzp v3…. How is it connecting the factory drain and coolant lines ? Do you bend tyem yourself as I never did a turbo swap before anything helps , thanks JLL build is looking sweet btw


Howie Eby from HE Performance made the manifold and the oil fittings for me.

I'm fabricating my own oil and coolant line using PTFE lined braided line and the appropriate AN fittings that match the fittings I chose for the block. Most of it is in this thread. I have yet to fabricate the lines yet because I'll have to mount the turbo before I'll know how much hose I need for each.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> Howie Eby from HE Performance made the manifold and the oil fittings for me.
> 
> I'm fabricating my own oil and coolant line using PTFE lined braided line and the appropriate AN fittings that match the fittings I chose for the block. Most of it is in this thread. I have yet to fabricate the lines yet because I'll have to mount the turbo before I'll know how much hose I need for each.


Yeah I remember checking out this build post last week and saw the fittings, thats super cool i might go this route afterall, I dont really see the bang for your buck with the china ZZP v3 lol, I know theyre releasing a new bigger turbo setup for the cruze/sonic real soon they just need to do some final tests when weather breaks... your build is looking dope, nice stuff


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

CHEVYCRUZE RS said:


> Yeah I remember checking out this build post last week and saw the fittings, thats super cool i might go this route afterall, I dont really see the bang for your buck with the china ZZP v3 lol, I know theyre releasing a new bigger turbo setup for the cruze/sonic real soon they just need to do some final tests when weather breaks... your build is looking dope, nice stuff


Honestly for $1,100, ZZP makes a pretty good product that can be safely run on stock internals. I've probably spent an additional $4,000 on the bigger turbo and custom fabrication on top of the 1st engine build.

I upgraded from the V3 because it didn't give me the power I had envisioned after spending about $6,000 building the rest of the engine.

At a point engine modifications have diminishing returns.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> Honestly for $1,100, ZZP makes a pretty good product that can be safely run on stock internals. I've probably spent an additional $4,000 on the bigger turbo and custom fabrication on top of the 1st engine build.
> 
> I upgraded from the V3 because it didn't give me the power I had envisioned after spending about $6,000 building the rest of the engine.
> 
> At a point engine modifications have diminishing returns.


100% Heard great things about the V3 kit and I stand behind ZZP products been using them since 2012 for this reason, Im not quite sure which route ill be going its a hard call lol


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

I installed some M8-1.25 studs into some M10-1.50 holes today. The T25 flange on the turbo uses M8 holes while the T2 flange used on the manifold uses M10 holes. This is my first time uses thread inserts. I think it turned out well.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2:* *DAY 1*

Today I started stage 2 of my engine build. I removed the ZZP V3 turbocharger, Intake Manifold Assembly, and the Upper Charge Pipe. All in 20-30 degree F weather.  It was chilly today for the end of March.





































For those of you wondering I already sold the V3 to the first interested member who contacted me back in January.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Undoing all that work so quickly.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2:* *DAY 1*
> 
> For those of you wondering I already sold the V3 to the first interested member who contacted me back in January.


👀


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Undoing all that work so quickly.


Upgrading  

I'm getting pretty good at it too. It took me 40 minutes to get the turbo off and 20 to take off the manifold. 

On another note, I bought another goodie. An inline filter for the turbo oil feed.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

I am curious how you got the turbo off so fast without removing your downpipe.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> I am curious how you got the turbo off so fast without removing your downpipe.


In 11 "easy"  steps....

0. Disconnect the battery.
1. Drain coolant.
2. Unplug MAF and Remove intake pipe.
3. Disconnect the coolant return how from the oil cooler to let the coolant finish draining.
4. Unplugged the bypass actuator solenoid.
5. Disconnect the oil feed pipe from the block and turbo.
6. Disconnect the coolant feed line from the block.
7. Using an E10 socket w lond extention unbolt the oil return pipe from the turbo.
8. Unbolt the turbo from the head.
9. Lift it out.
10. Disconnect the bypass valve hose from the bypass valve.

Plus this is my 3th time removing this turbo.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 2*

I didn't have a lot of time today between errands, but with what time I did have, I tested fitted the new intake manifold, fuel rail w/regulator attachment, and modified LNF throttle body. Every fits but just barely. I had to mount the throttle body upside down so I'll need to make a throttle body plug extension.

Test fit on my desk:










Test fit in the car:


----------



## landrystephane92 (Jan 3, 2012)

So you're telling me I could potentially put an LSJ or LNF throttle body on mine too? :O


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

landrystephane92 said:


> So you're telling me I could potentially put an LSJ or LNF throttle body on mine too? :O


I don't know what they make for a 1.8L.


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

Awesome progress!!!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Murphsox said:


> Awesome progress!!!


Thanks. How are things going for you?


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

Good, car is running good. Just waiting for the weather to break so I can put the summer wheels on. I also have new brakes to go on all around the car. Sounding like next week is going to be a busy week off


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Murphsox said:


> Good, car is running good. Just waiting for the weather to break so I can put the summer wheels on. I also have new brakes to go on all around the car. Sounding like next week is going to be a busy week off


Yeah...I think we still got a number of weeks before that happens since it can't seem to resist going back to "winter" mode all the time. I don't even feel good about changing the Volt or Cruze (or my brother's Regal) back over to all-seasons any time soon.


----------



## Murphsox (May 2, 2021)

MP81 said:


> Yeah...I think we still got a number of weeks before that happens since it can't seem to resist going back to "winter" mode all the time. I don't even feel good about changing the Volt or Cruze (or my brother's Regal) back over to all-seasons any time soon.


right! Im hoping the weather that blows through the next couple days is the last chance for snow for a while


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Yeah...I think we still got a number of weeks before that happens since it can't seem to resist going back to "winter" mode all the time. I don't even feel good about changing the Volt or Cruze (or my brother's Regal) back over to all-seasons any time soon.


I changed mine Sunday.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 3*

This morning I bought a check valve for the vacuum portion of my new PCV system and fittings for my the setup. Basically I'm pulling crankcase fumes into the intake under vacuum and venting to atmosphere under boost.










This afternoon I thought to myself: " Why don't I just put the new manifold and the turbo on. It should be super easy since it's only 8 nuts for the manifold and 4 nuts for the turbo."

I should know better! Nothing on a Cruze is "super easy." A job that I expected to take 30 minutes took 2 hours.

Issue installing the manifold:
1. The primary tunes are much bigger than stock. I could only use a socket on 3 bolts. The other 5 has to be finger tightend and the tightened the rest of the way with the open end of a wrench an 1/8th to 1/4 inch at a time depending on the bolt. One stud wouldn't even accommodate a copper nut, so I had to use a stainless flange nut.

Here's the manifold installed:











Issue mounting the new turbo:

1. Bigger turbo. Small Space. I had to bend the A/C lines until the turbo sat in the manifold. Then I spent the next 30 minutes tightening 4 nuts with only 1 inch of space between the turbo and the flange. I could of disassembled the turbo to make it easier but I didn't want to re-clock everything.

New turbo mounted to the manifold:










I still need to make a few adjustments and fabricate all the lines. I may need a spacer between the manifold and the turbo. I'm not sure on that yet.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

holy $%^# that's a big turbo!


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

I swear to god that thing looks bigger than the engine.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> holy $%^# that's a big turbo!





Valpo Cruze said:


> I swear to god that thing looks bigger than the engine.


That goes to show you how small the engine actually is. The G25 is considered a small frame turbo by Garrett. But compared to a lot of the stuff they make it is small.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

She looking super sexy wow


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> That goes to show you how small the engine actually is. The G25 is considered a small frame turbo by Garrett. But compared to a lot of the stuff they make it is small.


You’re gonna need a set of aircraft ear muffs like they wear on the tarmac. Gonna sound like a jet plane.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 3*

So today was fun. More on that below. This morning I prepared for the new intake manifold installation. I cut the brake boost like and freed the one way valve. I also ran the vacuum portion of the new PCV system.




















So this afternoon I thought I would do something simple and install the coolant feed fitting into the block. I got it into the port and began to torque it down. Pop Quiz: True or False? A replacement fitting is torqued to the same torque specification as the original fitting. I'll give you a hint.



















The answer is, Not if you're replacing a steel fitting with an aluminum one!

All is good though. I removed the turbo, manifold, and unhooked an oil cooler coolant line. Then remove the remnants of the fitting from the block. This time I'm buying a stainless steel fitting and installing it with less torque and a small amount of thread locker.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

At least it wasn't too large of an Oof level!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> At least it wasn't too large of an Oof level!
> 
> View attachment 296868


Fortunately, most Oofs I can handle after putting in more wrench time.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2**: DAY 4*

Today was a work inside day. I assembled the intake manifold assembly (fuel injectors, fuel rail, and throttle body).


















Also, I bought a 1" spacer to raise the turbo to help with clearancing.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 5*

Today I installed the RacerX Intake Manifold. I just need to buy a new evap purge valve. On Monday I'll go pick up my intake pipe and upper charge pipe from the welders. I want to take a moment to give credit where credit is due. GM did something right when they designed the OE Intake Manifold with capitive bolts. With my particular new setup, it's a HUGE pain in the ass to tighten the manifold bolts.










I also received a new coolant feed fitting.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

MP81 said:


> At least it wasn't too large of an Oof level!
> 
> 😂😂
> 
> View attachment 296868


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 5*
> 
> Today I installed the RacerX Intake Manifold. I just need to buy a new evap purge valve. On Monday I'll go pick up my intake pipe and upper charge pipe from the welders. I want to take a moment to give credit where credit is due. GM did something right when they designed the OE Intake Manifold with capitive bolts. With my particular new setup, it's a HUGE pain in the ass to tighten the manifold bolts.
> 
> ...


Nicely done on the fitting swap and 100% I can see what you mean about your new setup and manifold bolts, being in the bay last couple of days. Hope all goes well haha and I’m sure you won’t let us down !


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Those RacerX manifolds are so neat and unique looking.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Those RacerX manifolds are so neat and unique looking.


They do look really nice. And according to RacerX they're supposed to add a little more torque too but I'm not counting on it. I bought because it goes well with my build being able to customize all the connections.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 6*

I'm waiting on parts so today I didn't do too much. I installed all the in new block fittings to accommodate for the new oil and coolant lines, test fitted the oil pressure regulator/filter/Guage assembly, And...thanks to @XjJunky I spent some more money and bought a RacerX water outlet. Since I have things apart and drained it will be a 3 bolt + 3 hose clamp install, so I figured I might as well. Plus it's SEXY. 

Here's the oil regulator/filter assembly I pieced together:










RacerX Water outlet:


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

So what kind of power and torque is stage 2 gonna bring? Will the transmission hold it? Will the axles hold it?

Any added cooling capacity getting figured in?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Valpo Cruze said:


> So what kind of power and torque is stage 2 gonna bring? Will the transmission hold it? Will the axles hold it?
> 
> Any added cooling capacity getting figured in?


I'm going to have to play most of that by ear. Brian from Vermont Tuning told me that the automatic transmission and axels *should* hold up for a while under my power goal of 300 - 325 WHP with the way he has the transmission calibrated. In the event that they don't hold up, I found a company that makes an upgraded version of the 6T45. But I'm hoping that they hold out until next year.

As for the cooling system, I'll have to see what the temperatures look like. I'm hoping all the thermal coating I had done will help keep temperatures down however, I haven't ruled out the possible need for additional cooling. capacity


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> my power goal of 300 - 325 WHP


----------



## XjJunky (May 28, 2020)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 6*
> 
> I'm waiting on parts so today I didn't do too much. I installed all the in new block fittings to accommodate for the new oil and coolant lines, test fitted the oil pressure regulator/filter/Guage assembly, And...thanks to @XjJunky I spent some more money and bought a RacerX water outlet. Since I have things apart and drained it will be a 3 bolt + 3 hose clamp install, so I figured I might as well. Plus it's SEXY.
> 
> ...


Well sorry my friend lol. It's definitely worth them money for sure. I'm definitely thinking for you with all the extra power and all that work you have done to your engine, it will definitely be a peace of mind. One less part that is prone to and will100% fail. But it goes both ways thanks to @JLL and @CHEVYCRUZE RS I'll also be ordering the RacerX intake manifold this fall. Gotta do the ZZP intercooler first this summer. The desert heat is coming and the Cruze hella hates it


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I also received a new coolant feed fitting.
> View attachment 296906


I think you need to tighten that more.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I think you need to tighten that more.


Yeah? What do you think I should tighten it too? 87 ft/lbs?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 7*

I picked up more parts today. It's coming together. But I'm still waiting on the spacer, without that I'm at a stand still.

Upper charge pipe w/ BOV mounted.









Custom Intake Pipe w/ MAF screen










I made my first custom line. This one goes from the oil feed from the block to the oil pressure regulator.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Yeah? What do you think I should tighten it too? 87 ft/lbs?


Whatever snaps that **** right off in the block like the other one.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 7*
> 
> I picked up more parts today. It's coming together. But I'm still waiting on the spacer, without that I'm at a stand still.
> 
> ...


I might have to pay you a visit to get you to make me a few of them lines - nice!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Whatever snaps that **** right off in the block like the other one.


It wouldn't wake much.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I might have to pay you a visit to get you to make me a few of them lines - nice!


Thanks


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Was it you or @Thebigzeus that found some turbo lube? I am in need of some but cannot remember where I saw it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Was it you or @Thebigzeus that found some turbo lube? I am in need of some but cannot remember where I saw it.


Turbo lube? I just use oil. I save the lube for other things.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I save the lube for other things.


What on *earth* have you been doing with your car.

It's a Chevy Cruze, not a Mercury Mistress.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Blasirl said:


> Was it you or @Thebigzeus that found some turbo lube? I am in need of some but cannot remember where I saw it.


Was me, this is good stuff! Turbosmart TS-0205-3011 Turbosmart Uniglide Lubricant | Summit Racing


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 8*

Today I didn't get much Cruze time in. I’m *still* waiting on my turbo spacer that was supposed to come 2-Day USPS Priority Mail Express. Tomorrow will be business day number 4 USPS... 

So I did what I could today. I installed the oil pressure regulator, made the other 3 oil lines, and removed the factory water outlet. I also realized I needed a throttle body harness extension, so I bought one.



















Not sure if I'll be able to keep the pressure guage due to space limitations but I'll need the spacer to check.

I received my downpipe parts and the RacerX Water Outlet late this afternoon. Tomorrow is supposed to rain all day, so it will be an inside day. Hopefully I can make the coolant lines and install the new fuel pump into the assembly.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> that was supposed to come 2-Day USPS Priority Mail Express. Tomorrow will be business day number 4 USPS...


Ahh you forget - it's 2 Day after they're done losing it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Ahh you forget - it's 2 Day after they're done losing it.


Right  

I did request a shipping refund and they approved it. That about the only perk of express mail anymore is that the still guarantee the shipping time. So, I'll get a check in the mail before Labor Day. IMO UPS or FEDEX should purchase USPS from the government. It wouldn't be perfect but it would run alot better than it does now.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> Turbo lube? I just use oil. I save the lube for other things.


Lolol adddddda boy JLL 😂


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Right
> 
> I did request a shipping refund and they approved it. That about the only perk of express mail anymore is that the still guarantee the shipping time. So, I'll get a check in the mail before Labor Day. IMO UPS or FEDEX should purchase USPS from the government. It wouldn't be perfect but it would run alot better than it does now.


USPS's recent commercial using "I've been everywhere" seems to apply to half of their packages getting a tour of the continental United States before actually being delivered.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> USPS's recent commercial using "I've been everywhere" seems to apply to half of their packages getting a tour of the continental United States before actually being delivered.


This package actually went where I was expecting it too. It just took 3 extra days to do it. However, they just left it on the front porch in the pouring rain for 3 hours this morning before I found it. Good thing it was wrapped it 4 USPS priority bags.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

MP81 said:


> What on *earth* have you been doing with your car.
> 
> It's a Chevy Cruze, not a Mercury Mistress.


Must be all those new finely machined orifices beckoning!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Must be all those new finely machined orifices beckoning!


I actually prefer orifices that aren't smooth..


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I actually prefer orifices that aren't smooth..


So you do like turbulence!


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)




----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 9*

It rained all day today. This morning I finished my coolant lines. This afternoon I decided to take apart the fuel pump assembly I bought. It looks like the new pump will fit with minor modifications.

Here's the disassembled factory pump assembly:










Then right before dinner it stopped raining and got sunny! I got an hour of Cruze time in after dinner. I had to remove the oil pressure guage because of space issues. Here's what it looks like:

The 1" turbo spacer installed:









However, with the spacer installed the turbo wouldn't fit. At least not as an assembly. So I installed the turbine housing and supercore separately.

It was a tight fit!


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 9*
> View attachment 297013


Can you tell me more about where and why you tapped in for the oil gauge? I have been toying around with an idea of installing a few underhood gauges and am getting closer to pulling the trigger.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Can you tell me more about where and why you tapped in for the oil gauge? I have been toying around with an idea of installing a few underhood gauges and am getting closer to pulling the trigger.


There's a port for a guage on my oil pressure regulator. It's fed by the turbo oil feed line.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 10*

Today was productive. I installed the fuel pump into the stock hanger. It's slightly longer than the stock pump so I'll need to drill a 1 3/4" hole on the outer white housing so the pump can protrude.



















Then I test fitted the intake. I'm noticing a pattern; Everything barely fits. 










Then I installed the RacerX water outlet.










The finally, I fitted the new upper charge pipe at the intercooler end. I'm going to change the oil filter before I connect the throttle body.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAYS 11, 12, 13*

The last 3 nice days have been spent fitting plumbing through the trial and error method. After many fitments, the oil feed and coolant lines, hot and cold sides of the intercooler piping, air intake, and blow off valve are installed. I also dropped the downpipe parts off at the fabrication shop and installed the boost control solenoid. It may not look like much but, I’m thrilled to have most of the plumbing done.

Time for pictures.

The cold charge pipe and BOV installed.










Oil feed and coolant lines installed.



















The nightmare that was the hot charge pipe installed. But, it's doesn't impead the cooling fan anymore.










The installed air intake installed.


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## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

I would suggest adding a NO OIL YET piece of paper on the steering wheel as well.

Buddy of mine screwed up his Harley because he drained the oil and never got back to filling it for what ever reason. Some days later he went to start it forgetting it had no oil in it. New engine time after that.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Valpo Cruze said:


> I would suggest adding a NO OIL YET piece of paper on the steering wheel as well.
> 
> Buddy of mine screwed up his Harley because he drained the oil and never got back to filling it for what ever reason. Some days later he went to start it forgetting it had no oil in it. New engine time after that.


Agree or tape over the key hole, so you think, “gosh why did my dumb self put tape over this, oh yeah I can’t start my vehicle yet”!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Thebigzeus said:


> Agree or tape over the key hole, so you think, “gosh why did my dumb self put tape over this, oh yeah I can’t start my vehicle yet”!


I think you still need a sign, because I could see myself doing that, forgetting why, then thinking it stupid and removing it and starting the car.


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## Bvogt (Dec 19, 2021)

MP81 said:


> I think you still need a sign, because I could see myself doing that, forgetting why, then thinking it stupid and removing it and starting the car.


Yea, then blame the kids..


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Bvogt said:


> Yea, then blame the kids..


**** kids. Then remembering it was me.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Bvogt said:


> Yea, then blame the kids..


That would so not make it better.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY 14*

Today I couldn't do much as I'm waiting on parts. So, I decided to fill the cooling system with coolant; and it gushed coolant. 










So, where was it leaking? The custom coolant lines? No. The aftermarket fittings in the block? No. The hose clamps I unhooked? No.

It was leaking at the one place I didn't expect it to leak. The bottom of the new RacerX coolant outlet! Nothing is cracked. Upon inspection the gasket is VERY thin compared to the OE gasket.

I emailed RacerX to try to figure out if the wrong gasket was used or what? I expect to hear back tomorrow.

If anyone with a RacerX water outlet has some input, it would be appreciated.

@XjJunky , @thebac


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## XjJunky (May 28, 2020)

Hella not cool. Could be wrong gasket or I wonder the Grove was machined to deep. When I installed mine you could definitely tell the gasket made contact with the block and was somewhere around a 1/16" gap between the two. I could fill the outlet gasket suck up to the block as I torqued the screws , if you know what I mean( when you know the gasket gets a good seal).


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

XjJunky said:


> Hella not cool. Could be wrong gasket or I wonder the Grove was machined to deep. When I installed mine you could definitely tell the gasket made contact with the block and was somewhere around a 1/16" gap between the two. I could fill the outlet gasket suck up to the block as I torqued the screws , if you know what I mean( when you know the gasket gets a good seal).


Mine definitely wasn't like that. The gasket is almost flush with the surface of the water outlet.


----------



## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

I just installed the one I have today. The gasket seemed fine to me. Used the same torque specs as OEM -- 89in/lbs. Got what seemed to be good "squish" on the gasket.

Going to be a bit before I fill with coolant and test, though. Glad i saved the plastic one


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

thebac said:


> I just installed the one I have today. The gasket seemed fine to me. Used the same torque specs as OEM -- 89in/lbs. Got what seemed to be good "squish" on the gasket.
> 
> Going to be a bit before I fill with coolant and test, though. Glad i saved the plastic one


Something must be defective with mine.


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## XjJunky (May 28, 2020)

Something definitely not right.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Something must be defective with mine.


now now, what have we taught you about reusing parts??? 😏


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## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

couldve been a machining error or a bad gasket. Im sure the racer x people will take care of it for you.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

RacerX is sending me a new water outlet once I send back the defective one. I guess I'll be doing other things until it arrives.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> RacerX is sending me a new water outlet once I send back the defective one. I guess I'll be doing other things until it arrives.


Maybe like shipping out a ported manifold?  I'm all giddy over here

Glad they're taking care of you, such an odd issue.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Maybe like shipping out a ported manifold?  I'm all giddy over here
> 
> Glad they're taking care of you, such an odd issue.


I'm planning to visit FedEx tomorrow.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I'm planning to visit FedEx tomorrow.


Me when it gets here next week

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## XjJunky (May 28, 2020)

Hella sucks you have to return it, but on the good side at least we know Racer X will make it right. I have had other companies try everything in the book not to replace there defective products.


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## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

X2 Glad they are taking care of it. When I got mine, I was pleasantly surprised they were in Michigan, down by Jackson.


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## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

@JLL Was filling the engine with coolant, and same as you, the RacerX elbow itself is not sealing. Leaking like a sieve out the bottom. Also had a leak from around the temp sensor, too. I'll call RacerX on Monday and get a return started. 
As I dont know the history on the oldplastic elbow, and a new Dorman plastic elbow is pretty cheap, so Im going to go that route for the time being. Have to get this car running.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

thebac said:


> @JLL Was filling the engine with coolant, and same as you, the RacerX elbow itself is not sealing. Leaking like a sieve out the bottom. Also had a leak from around the temp sensor, too. I'll call RacerX on Monday and get a return started.
> As I dont know the history on the oldplastic elbow, and a new Dorman plastic elbow is pretty cheap, so Im going to go that route for the time being. Have to get this car running.


I sent mine back today. They offered to give me a refund if I needed the part sooner than they could send it. I should be getting another one on Tuesday.

I sent them an email letting them knew that I knew of someone else had the same issue I did.


----------



## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

Thanks. It is what it is. Car is running now.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

They should really reimburse you two for the lost coolant as well... That part isn't cheap.


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## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

I lost less than 1 qt of coolant. Like I said, it happened right away during filling, not under pressure, so I didnt lose much. Ive got me email into them for a return, same as JLL. We'll see how it goes.

So JLL, how is this affecting your build? Are you just going to go back to the plastic elbow temporarily so you can get finished? BTW, are you going to try DIYguy's electronic Tstat mod to keep temps down?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

thebac said:


> I lost less than 1 qt of coolant. Like I said, it happened right away during filling, not under pressure, so I didnt lose much. Ive got me email into them for a return, same as JLL. We'll see how it goes.
> 
> So JLL, how is this affecting your build? Are you just going to go back to the plastic elbow temporarily so you can get finished? BTW, are you going to try DIYguy's electronic Tstat mod to keep temps down?


It's giving me some down time to do other things. Today I reinstalled my Whiteline rear Stabilizer bar. Thanks again to @Mr_Pat !

The black ones are the Whiteline bushing I destroyed. The blue ones are Pat's that he made for @Blasirl and I. They were a tight fit but I forced them in there with my 3 lb hammer.










Whiteline Bar Installed.









This is how the bushing sits in the spring seat.









Here's a better picture of the top of the bushing.










I have a second vehicle so, I'm not in a huge hurry. It'll give me time to replace the front Stabilizer Bar and the lower transmission mount that I've been putting off. 

As for the temperature, it's already lowered in the ECM calibration. I say around 195-200 F all the time. I'll add additional cooling capacity if needed, but I'll play that by ear.


----------



## XjJunky (May 28, 2020)

@JLL Is that the ZZP cat back exhaust you have on your car? If so got a question for you


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

That reminds me...I need to figure out how to make the Whiteline bar work in my Volt. It's supposed to fit...it doesn't as is - the inserts need to be a good bit different.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

XjJunky said:


> @JLL Is that the ZZP cat back exhaust you have on your car? If so got a question for you


No. It's a Magnaflow.


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## XjJunky (May 28, 2020)

JLL said:


> No. It's a Magnaflow.


Right on. Looks like **** near the same as the ZZP one from the pic. Wanted to see if you had fitment issue with it if it was.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

XjJunky said:


> Right on. Looks like **** near the same as the ZZP one from the pic. Wanted to see if you had fitment issue with it if it was.


It bolted strait on. The tip is touching the bumper but it's been there for almost 2 years and no issues.


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## XjJunky (May 28, 2020)

Nice. The ZZP one bolts up pretty good too. The muffler doesn't sit straight though. Thinking they just welded the hanger for it in the wrong spot. Later this summer when I get time I'm going to pull it all.off and reinstall. Looking like I'm going to have to cut a couple of the pipes to get everything lined up how it should be.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

This afternoon, I finally installed the TTR lower transmission mount.The old one was starting to deteriorate. I had to move the steering rack to install it. On Tuesday I'm going to use this opportunity to lower the rear of the subframe a few inches and I should be able to finally install the Whiteline front Stabilizer Bar. Time for pictures.

The stock engine mount.









Stock Transmission Mount & TTR Mount









The TTR Mount in place but not torqued.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'd say the stocker was actually okay - most of what was missing was just flashing between the actual structural parts of the rubber.

That said, knowing how much I like my TTR mounts, you're in for a great upgrade.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

Today's clusterF***, was removing and installing the front Whiteline Stabilizer Bar. The Whiteline Bar is almost double the weight of the factory bar. Installing it in car is a 2 person job. It took us (myself and my neighbor) 5 hours. All said and done, we lowered the rear of the subframe an inch, completely disconnected the steering rack, removed the lower transmission mount bracket, and marked up the paint on the firewall. But in the end, we were successful. I hope it was worth it. 

Here's the only picture I took between my frustrations. The Whiteline Bar is Silver. The factory bar is black.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, that definitely doesn't look like one you can snake out without dropping ****. 

My buddy and I were able to in my Cobalt, and it was even less of an endeavor (because the Cobalt was _not_ fun) in my brother's Century...though that ZZP solid front bar was HEAVY (33mm solid).

My Cavalier I also had to drop the subframe to install (mainly because there was no way to get the brackets on without doing so, if I recall). When I went to do so, the first thing I did was snap the head off one of the subframe bolts. Luckily, that subframe developed a 360 degree crack later (not due to that bolt - the head no longer was providing clamp load load as the shank of the bolt was 100% fused into the sleeve in the subframe, but due to rust - the subframe came out in three pieces), so when I put in a new subframe, I plopped the FE2 bar right on there.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Something must be defective with mine.


The first time I used a pantograph machine, I had to machine the groove into snowmobile crankcase halves. I was a new machinist and did not understand time trials. I did my absolute best for the first one and then the boss told me that was my baseline for piece work. I did everything to go faster to make more money as I was absolutely broke at the time. Needless to say, there were "minor" mistakes made.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE**:*
> 
> Today's clusterF***, was removing and installing the front Whiteline Stabilizer Bar. The Whiteline Bar is almost double the weight of the factory bar. Installing it in car is a 2 person job. It took us (myself and my neighbor) 5 hours. All said and done, we lowered the rear of the subframe an inch, completely disconnected the steering rack, removed the lower transmission mount bracket, and marked up the paint on the firewall. But in the end, we were successful. I hope it was worth it.
> 
> ...


I received mine last week. It will be a few weeks before I even think of installing it.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> This afternoon, I finally installed the TTR lower transmission mount.The old one was starting to deteriorate. I had to move the steering rack to install it. On Tuesday I'm going to use this opportunity to lower the rear of the subframe a few inches and I should be able to finally install the Whiteline front Stabilizer Bar. Time for pictures.
> 
> ...


My TTR mount has finally mellowed out. Pretty much a bumblebee when I first installed it.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Blasirl said:


> My TTR mount has finally mellowed out. Pretty much a bumblebee when I first installed it.


Mine never has on my Cobalt - but that's fine, because it's exactly how I like it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> My TTR mount has finally mellowed out. Pretty much a bumblebee when I first installed it.


Do you have both mounts?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I received mine last week. It will be a few weeks before I even think of installing it.


To be honest, if you have the money and that's all you're installing in that vicinity, I recommend having a shop do it. Or at least fully drop the subframe if you have the means. It was a BITCH to do it the way I did 🥺.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Do you have both mounts?


Only the one you have pictured, for the trans. I just spent the last 20 minutes looking for anything about it that I may have posted and apparently I forgot to do so. I think I installed it around the time I installed the Eibachs. I had thought about installing the engine mount, but as a daily, it would be too rough. Now though, being close to retiring, I may install it.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

No Cruze time today but I picked up my custom downpipe. I'm debating if I should take it in a cerakote it. That would take a week or so if I do.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

How much is it "in" the engine bay? It probably won't be of too much help (aside from keeping it super pretty, depending on what kind of stainless it is) if it's just under the car, since that heat won't really be a problem in the first place.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> How much is it "in" the engine bay? It probably won't be of too much help (aside from keeping it super pretty, depending on what kind of stainless it is) if it's just under the car, since that heat won't really be a problem in the first place.


ALL of it. Most of it is vertical.


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## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

What would be the advantage of cerakote on the pipe?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Valpo Cruze said:


> What would be the advantage of cerakote on the pipe?


So it doesn't harm the electronics and/or plastic components around it with excess. And it won't rust for a long time. At least that's my thinking.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> ALL of it. Most of it is vertical.


Then yep, I'd say it is worth it. 

Real handy if you need to work around it shortly after shut-off.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

Top 4 Benefits of High Temp Ceramic Coating for Your Car's Exhaust System — ITC Coatings


High temp ceramic coating is a type of coating that can resist very high temperatures. In fact, ceramic can withstand temperatures of 3,800 degrees Fahrenheit (2,000 Celcius). ITC 100 ceramic coating can withstand up to 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit. Here are some reasons you need these types of high tem




www.itccoatings.com


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And god **** can it look good:


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> And god **** can it look good:
> View attachment 297229


I asked for a chrome coating like that, but my the shop I use doesn't stock it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I asked for a chrome coating like that, but my the shop I use doesn't stock it.


That's interesting because that is basically the most common ceramic coating you see...


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> That's interesting because that is basically the most common ceramic coating you see...


It might just be the class of coating I'm asking them for. Cerakote only makes variations of Silver, Grey, Black, Copper, and Gold in their V-Series Coatings.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It's entirely possible. My super-shiny headers (both the Camaro LT's above and my Cobalt's midlength header) are rated to 1600, but that V-series says 1800.

My local place (which does really, really good work - they're who did both of the above) has a black coating that is rated to 1800, and a Cast-Iron-Gray rated to 1300, so I think it really depends on what is being used.

Either way - if your EGTs are at that level, you're going to have other issues.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Either way - if your EGTs are at that level, you're going to have other issues.


Very much so...

But you know me 

That being said, I'm re-working my downpipe. It didn't want to go through the front transmission mount that I didn't think about. This time I'm working with a very small exhaust shop that will pretty much do anything I request as long as they get paid.

I was talking about exhaust work...


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

Yesterday I cleaned up some oil that was on the oil pan. I figured it was from up top when I removed the intake (which had some oil in it.)

This morning, some the oil was back. I removed the oil pan and found the culprit. A 1/4" section with no RTV.

Oil Pan:










Engine Block:










That explains where my 3/4 quart of oil went over 2,000 miles.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY IDK*

Today it rained all day. So, I worked on the new fuel pump. My plan was to drill a 43mm hole in the plastic housing. As soon as the drill bit hit the housing, the bottom of the housing grenaded. 

So I filed down the rough edges and installed the pump. Not the prettiest, but it's going to live in the fuel tank.




























Someone asked to to show this a while back. I think it was @F18D4T or maybe it was @CHEVYCRUZE RS ? I forget.


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> *ENGINE BUILD STAGE 2: DAY IDK*
> 
> Today it rained all day. So, I worked on the new fuel pump. My plan was to drill a 43mm hole in the plastic housing. As soon as the drill bit hit the housing, the bottom of the housing grenaded.
> 
> ...


Yup , it was me haha, looking sweet man loving the build and coming back everyday to see progress 😍


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

Today I resealed the oil pan for the 3rd time. We'll see how it goes this time.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> Today I resealed the oil pan for the 3rd time. We'll see how it goes this time.


Third time's the charm! (hopefully)


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

I got thing put together enough to do a test fire. In my haste, unbeknownst to me, I forgot to check all my intercooler piping clamps. As a result, the engine wouldn't start with the MAF plugged in. So I unplugged the MAF, to bleed the cooling system and checks for oil/coolant leaks.

There were no oil or coolant leaks. The engine got to normal operating temperature and the cooling fan turned on.....

And there lies the problem. Since one of the intercooler piping clamps weren't tight, one of the silicone couplers were too close to the cooling fan. The fan wore a hole in the silicone coupler and in the process got damaged.

I ordered a new coupler and an aftermarket low profile cooling fan.

16" Mishimoto Cooling Fan


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

The big 50 is coming - no more spare parts


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> The big 50 is coming - no more spare parts


Spare parts?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

Got the fuel tank dropped today.










Here is the fully Fuel Pump Assembly w/ AEM pump and new sending unit ready for installation.










I tested the fuel pump before installing it into the tank. It worked perfectly.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Missing a picture there?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Missing a picture there?


Not anymore....


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Spare parts?


I only went back about 6 pages so I probably missed a few...








JLL's: The Golden Bullet


Good, car is running good. Just waiting for the weather to break so I can put the summer wheels on. I also have new brakes to go on all around the car. Sounding like next week is going to be a busy week off Yeah...I think we still got a number of weeks before that happens since it can't seem...




www.cruzetalk.com












JLL's: The Golden Bullet


Yeah, but I still have to fabricate the lines. That being said, I could have bought pre-fabricated lines but I didn't want too much length. I have a big history with water cooling computer (search Duality92) and I've bought so many fittings. It just adds up so fast and costs so much.




www.cruzetalk.com












JLL's: The Golden Bullet


So what kind of power and torque is stage 2 gonna bring? Will the transmission hold it? Will the axles hold it? Any added cooling capacity getting figured in? I'm going to have to play most of that by ear. Brian from Vermont Tuning told me that the automatic transmission and axels should hold...




www.cruzetalk.com












JLL's: The Golden Bullet


And god **** can it look good: I asked for a chrome coating like that, but my the shop I use doesn't stock it.




www.cruzetalk.com












JLL's: The Golden Bullet


And god **** can it look good: I asked for a chrome coating like that, but my the shop I use doesn't stock it.




www.cruzetalk.com


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I got it running. The problem? ME. The MAF sensor mounting holes are not symmetrical as I ASSumed. The MAF sensor bung was welded on backwards and since our MAF sensor is directional, we'll you get the idea. 

The "end" is in site.

I just have too:
1. Install the Whiteline control arm bushings.
2. Install the new Stabilizer Links.
3. Finish the exhaust.
4. Put the summer wheels on.
5. And Take it's first test drive!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I took the control arms out this morning before it got too hot. The ball joints are in good shape. Tomorrow I'm planning to disassemble and press out the bushings.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Glad to se the bushings fit .. it LOL sorry I guess I should have taken the shoulder down a touch more .. but I wanted it to be a tight fit so it was unlikely to pop loose from that point . it doesn't stick out beyond the lower edge of the control arm does it ? and May I also add that I would fill the top of the bushing with silicone to keep moisture out of it to help prevent the corrosion on the bolt . now with any luck you never need to take it apart again but just in case .


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> Glad to se the bushings fit .. it LOL sorry I guess I should have taken the shoulder down a touch more .. but I wanted it to be a tight fit so it was unlikely to pop loose from that point . it doesn't stick out beyond the lower edge of the control arm does it ?


I'm not quite sure what you mean, as my Cruze does not have rear control arms, it has a beam axel. But here's a picture of what I think you're asking.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

If you run into any issues let me know. I will hopefully finally be getting to tear my car apart this weekend. I still have some spare stock left from the bushing project so if need be I can redo a set


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> If you run into any issues let me know. I will hopefully finally be getting to tear my car apart this weekend. I still have some spare stock left from the bushing project so if need be I can redo a set


I should be putting the car on the ground sometime next week.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I don't think the AEM Dryflow filter I bought is going to hold very well under power. It deformed after just an hour of run time at idle.










Therefore I ordered a K&N replacement with almost double the filtering medium area.










I also pressed out 1 or the larger control are bushings.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

It's been a couple weeks since my last update. I abandoned my plan to tie the downpipe into the existing exhaust and have decided to just upgrade the diameter of the whole thing.

Here's my 10 foot piece of pipe 😮










I have a new Magnaflow muffler and resonator on order.


















Besides exhaust, the last two weeks have been spent on ECM calibrations to find the right mix of fueling and VVT adjustments to keep the engine running well with the increased airflow. The combination of the longer duration cams, less restrictive exhaust manifold, and larger turbo have played havoc with the fuel air/fuel mixture at lower engine speeds. That's all dialed in now, so I can test drive it and we can move onto boosting conditions in the coming weeks.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my 10 foot piece of pipe 😮


🤔😏


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I removed the cooling fan. Tomorrow I have an aluminum fan shroud coming so I can mount the new fan and then get to work on fabricating the exhaust. The fan, in combination with the shroud is only ~3.5" thick at it's widest vs. The factory fan assembly that is almost uniformly ~ 5" thick. You can see the profile difference below. ~ 1.5" doesn't seem like much, but with this build it's make it or break it. Literally.  










OEM Fan










Mishimoto Slim Fan


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hopefully it cools as well as the OEM fan does!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:



MP81 said:


> Hopefully it cools as well as the OEM fan does!


@MP81 got me thinking during our stretch of 90 degree weather. I believe that the new cooling fan will cool as well as OEM. But I got to looking at the radiator and realized that it I noticed that it's looking a little beat up. So, I thought I would use this one to upgrade the radiator and add an external transmission cooler since mine doesn't have one.

What came out: OEM Radiator: 31" x 16" x 1"









What's going in: Griffin Maxcool 31" x 19" x 3"








Russell 15" Transmission Cooler:








The open cavity where the radiator once was:










I'm hoping I can keep the condenser in place. I going to have to make custom bracket to mount the radiator, condenser, and intercooler to the subframe. I plan to shift those components 3/4" forward to accommodate for the condenser. There should be room to do that. But if I can't do that, I guess the condenser will be removed.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The hell happened to your OE radiator? That looks like my Cobalt's after I dropped it (the radiator) on a jack stand (while in the car).

That should be a great upgrade - hopefully you can keep the condenser - losing AC IMO is a bummer.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> The hell happened to your OE radiator? That looks like my Cobalt's after I dropped it (the radiator) on a jack stand (while in the car).
> 
> That should be a great upgrade - hopefully you can keep the condenser - losing AC IMO is a bummer.


The same thing that happened to you. 

Last year I tried jacking the front of the car up the front of the subframe. The jack rolled and the car slipped. I didn't think it cause any damage but it turns out it did.

I've never owned a car without functional A/C so, not having A/C would suck June - August.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> The same thing that happened to you.
> 
> Last year I tried jacking the front of the car up the front of the subframe. The jack rolled and the car slipped. I didn't think it cause any damage but it turns out it did.
> 
> I've actually never owned a car without functional A/C so, not having A/C would suck June - August.


Oh well that explains it quite well! I was doing the exact same thing - trying to use my jack under the front subframe (I was using one of those trolley jacks and a piece of wood - the wood slipped because the subframe is rounded), and I had a jackstand at the ready to go underneath the subframe and it just happened to be under the radiator.

Mine was leaking though, so, had to replace it. I just wish I hadn't have tried the Stopleak before...ugh.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Oh well that explains it quite well! I was doing the exact same thing - trying to use my jack under the front subframe (I was using one of those trolley jacks and a piece of wood - the wood slipped because the subframe is rounded), and I had a jackstand at the ready to go underneath the subframe and it just happened to be under the radiator.
> 
> Mine was leaking though, so, had to replace it. I just wish I hadn't have tried the Stopleak before...ugh.
> 
> View attachment 297810


IMO stop leak additives = 👹

I can't believe auto parts stores even sell it without trying to hard sell the part that needs replaced.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

It's absolute ****, and I'm pretty sure it was the source of my sticky thermostat years later (you know, wide open in the middle of a really cold winter day). And more than likely why my coolant temp sensors always take a ****.

It was the recommendation of one of my dad's friends who had experience with working on cars...but yeah, that was a pretty bad piece of advice there. I hate that crap.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> It's absolute **, and I'm pretty sure it was the source of my sticky thermostat years later (you know, wide open in the middle of a really cold winter day). And more than likely why my coolant temp sensors always take a **.
> 
> It was the recommendation of one of my dad's friends who had experience with working on cars...but yeah, that was a pretty bad piece of advice there. I hate that crap.


"Old School Guys" don't realize how sensative modern engines are. Stop leak worked just fine on a SBC/BBC but those engine were pretty "basic".


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And even then it's probably terrible for it - that **** really just screws everything up.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

It is with great sadness that I made realization that the A/C condenser would have to be removed, at least for now. 



















I also started on dry fitting the 3" exhaust. I got the most difficult part done, the downpipe.










Overall I feel pretty satisfied with today's progress. 😌


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE**:*
> 
> It is with great sadness that I made realization that the A/C condenser would have to be removed, at least for now.


Remember when I joked about you building a race car? Well today confirmed that!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Remember when I joked about you building a race car? Well today confirmed that!


 

I thought about removing the A/C compressor but I'm not sure if a belt would route well without it.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

If it wasn't optional, then probably not. On my Cavalier, the AC compressor used to jingle, and the clutch was shot so it was not functional - but since it was an option, I just bought the non-AC belt and installed that to stop the obnoxious jingling. 

I actually still have the previous belt hanging off a shelf in my garage for...whatever reason.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I've been fabricating exhaust, while waiting for the new radiator. I have 3/4 of the exhaust dry fitted. No pictures YET.... but I've changed things up from GM's design.

I'm still waiting on some exhaust hanger rods and 2 more pipes so, I can finish the post muffler side exit.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE**:*
> 
> It is with great sadness that I made realization that the A/C condenser would have to be removed, at least for now.


You might want to put some walls up around the garage bathroom so you can shmoo in peace and not disturb the neighbors at least visually. The smell . . . . well hopefully that dissipates quickly


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Valpo Cruze said:


> You might want to put some walls up around the garage bathroom so you can shmoo in peace and not disturb the neighbors at least visually. The smell . . . . well hopefully that dissipates quickly


Shmoo? That sounds like something my long deceased grandfather would say.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I got my new radiator today.




























F***


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

What in the actual ass.

I'd be expecting a new one overnight at the courier's expense.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> I got my new radiator today.
> 
> ...


Good lord, I don't mean to dog the company, but that is their fault and not UPS or whoever delivered it. That packaging is just asking for trouble. Looks like no reinforcement around the inlet/outlet. Sorry for your luck!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Good lord, I don't mean to dog the company, but that is their fault and not UPS or whoever delivered it. That packaging is just asking for trouble. Looks like no reinforcement around the inlet/outlet. Sorry for your luck!


There's not. The radiator was packaged very poorly. I submitted a claim with Summit Racing.


----------



## SlyCruze (Sep 20, 2013)

Wow that’s bad luck ! Hopefully they take care of it for you


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

SlyCruze said:


> Wow that’s bad luck ! Hopefully they take care of it for you


Summit took care of it *already!*


----------



## CHEVYCRUZE RS (Mar 29, 2011)

JLL said:


> There's not. The radiator was packaged very poorly. I submitted a claim with Summit Racing.


Yeah that is terrible , sorry for your **** luck JLL project is coming along nicely 👍


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> The same thing that happened to you.
> 
> Last year I tried jacking the front of the car up the front of the subframe. The jack rolled and the car slipped. I didn't think it cause any damage but it turns out it did.
> 
> I've never owned a car without functional A/C so, not having A/C would suck June - August.


At least three quarters of the vehicles I owned had 4/80 AC


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:
As most of you know the thermostat assembly on the Cruze is very specific and doesn't easily connect to universal parts. The water pump outlet is 2.125" ID. However, the thermostat outlet is only 1.5" OD. So, I bought some parts that are that will take better advantage of my new radiator and cooling fan. Some modification will be required of course.

New 1.75" Thermostat Housing:











My plan is to route the oil cooler coolant intake to the rear of the water pump as opposed to the front.

An appropriately sized 180 degree mechanical thermostat.










And appropriately size Dayco flexable radiator hoses.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

I got my replacement radiator today. This time they packaged it correctly instead of using brown packaging paper! I took it out and inspected it and it looks great.  










With the cooler temperatures, I'm starting it's installation tomorrow.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I took it out and inspected it and it looks great.


Oh. We don't get to see it?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Oh. We don't get to see it?


I'll take pictures tomorrow. I put it back in the box to keep the cats away from it.


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

WOW.. thats all I can say .. Kind of suprised to see a radiator packaged so poorly .. currently looking into metal wateroutlet as well as thermostat housings as well .. I have seen a few but they are all missing the return port for the cooler.. Though I'm sure I could drill and tap a boss for an NPT barb into one


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I used the busted up radiator to dry fit the radiator. I had to move the intercooler forward about an inch. But other than that, things went pretty smoothly today. The Griffin brackets worked great once I drilled and tapped a few new holes in the subframe. I'll take more pictures tomorrow before I put the good radiator in. I'll need to trim some sheet metal for a little more clearance around the radiator fill neck.










Here's a closer picture:


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

They didn't have you ship the old one back?


----------



## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

ummmvare you going to tilt it forward or something to be able to access the cap ??? and you done dinged this one already too


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> They didn't have you ship the old one back?


Nope.  It's not salvageable anyway.

Amazon is like that too with damaged products.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Mr_Pat said:


> ummmvare you going to tilt it forward or something to be able to access the cap ??? and you done dinged this one already too


Nope. I'm going to use the expansion tank to fill the system and use the overflow tube on the radiator if I need to bleed the system.

The radiator in the picture is the damaged one. All that damage is from shipping.


----------



## Valpo Cruze (Feb 23, 2014)

So will this be back on the street in 2022 or 2023? Seems that you have REALLY gone down the Cruze rabbit hole on this project.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Valpo Cruze said:


> So will this be back on the street in 2022 or 2023? Seems that you have REALLY gone down the Cruze rabbit hole on this project.
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


2024. 

I got the damages radiator fitted. I have just enough room for the A/C condenser! This afternoon I'm going to route the A/C and intake hoses. Once those are done, I'm going to mount the fan to the shroud and then attach that to the good radiator and take out the damaged one.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

With my spare time today, I drilled and tapped the fan shroud for the fan and mounted it.

Fan shroud drilled and tapped:









Fan mounted to the shroud:









Tomorrow's task: Mount the fan/shroud assembly to the radiator. And, if it's not too hot, dry fit the fan/shroud/radiator assembly in the car.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I mounted the shroud/fan assembly to the radiator. The universal shroud didn't require much modification. 

Radiator:



















The 3 parts assembled:










I also test fitted the assembly in the car. It's a thicker than I envisioned. So I'll need to rework some things to move the mounting brackets, and intercooler forward. But what's new?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> It's a thicker than I envisioned.







 










That's what she said!


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> That's what she said!


I knew someone would say that.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I knew someone would say that.


I'd be upset if someone _didn't_.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I removed the intercooler and moved the radiator brackets forward and re-fit the radiator. It looking like everything will fit just fine with some more modification for the condenser and intercooler mounting.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

And now you get AC back! Very important. 

While I can't really use it in city driving due to the crazy amount of shaking it introduces with the TTR engine and trans mounts. But on the freeway, boy is it delicious.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> And now you get AC back! Very important.


If I didn't damage my A/C manifold. I had to do some bending to accommodate the turbo with the factory radiator installed. I have one connection that I can seem to get to mate flush.

I'll try again another day. It's way to hot out right now.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I am currently waiting on more parts. A new A/C manifold, a snap ring for the mechanical thermostat and a sensor housing for the radiator temperature sensor that's located in the factory lower coolant hose.

In the meantime, I've been fabricating and dry fitting the intercooler and A/C condenser in their new locations 4 inches forward from the original locations.

Intercooler in new location:


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I got a lot finished today. I installed the traditional mechanical thermostat, the new A/C manifold, attached the intercooler pipes, clocked the turbo *again*, installed the radiator/fan assembly, and finished installing the exhaust (with the exception of 1 hanger.)

All the piping installed:









The radiator assembly installed:









And the side exit exhaust tip:


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE**:*

It's poured almost every day this week. We got over 8 inches of rain. But it was dry, so now the grass and plants are happy. Today it dried out enough that I could work on the Cruze. I installed the new condenser, the transmission cooler and ran new transmission cooler lines.

New Condenser:









Condenser installed:









Transmission cooler and lines installed:


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE 07/23/22:*

I finished the cooling system over the last few days. No leaks so far. I knew the cooling system capacity would increase but, I wasn't sure how much. I added 2 gallons of 50/50 coolant and the system still issues all the way full. Here's some pics:

Custom Silicone Radiator Hoses:


















The new coolant oil cooler line:









New Radiator Inside










New radiator cap:


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I started the car up today. Runs Great! It idels between 185F-190F. Now time for a video with the new exhaust (3 Inch Pipe, No Cat, Magnaflow Rosonator and Muffler, Side Exit).









My Cruze First Start-Up with Side Exit Exhaust







youtube.com






I also charged the A/C. It's a chilly 40F degrees at idle.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I started the car up today. Runs Great! It idels between 185F-190F. Now time for a video with the new exhaust (3 Inch Pipe, No Cat, Magnaflow Rosonator and Muffler, Side Exit).
> 
> ...


Nice smooth idle for a race car! That is some chilly AC. Mine was 39 when I used an infrared gun on it, so you’re right in the range.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Nice smooth idle for a race car! That is some chilly AC. Mine was 39 when I used an infrared gun on it, so you’re right in the range.


It is now. I'm on my 3rd tune update and the car hasn't even been on the ground yet.  

I used the scale method for measuring the volume of refrigerant. Right on 22 ounces ~ 1.38 lbs which is the spec.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> It is now. I'm on my 3rd tune update and the car hasn't even been on the ground yet.
> 
> I used the scale method for measuring the volume of refrigerant. Right on 22 ounces ~ 1.38 lbs which is the spec.


Nice, going to be fun to rip it soon. You shooting for fall??


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Nice, going to be fun to rip it soon. You shooting for fall??


Hopefully this weekend. 
I have to: 
Fit the bumper, which will take some modification;
Seal up any small exhaust leaks, I think there is a small one; 
Install a couple underbody shields; 
Put the front wheels on;
Relearn the TPMS;
Put it on the ground;
And GO!


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Hopefully this weekend.
> I have to:
> Fit the bumper, which will take some modification;
> Seal up any small exhaust leaks, I think there is a small one;
> ...


Oh ****, I didn’t realize it was that close!


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

You didn't happen to do cams while you were in there, did you? (It didn't sound like it, so I was just confirming)


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> You didn't happen to do cams while you were in there, did you? (It didn't sound like it, so I was just confirming)


Yeah. I installed ZZP'S cams when I rebuilt the engine last fall. The cams don't lope anymore at idle because of VVT adjustments.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Yeah. I installed ZZP'S cams when I rebuilt the engine last fall. The cams don't lope anymore at idle because of VVT adjustments.


Excellent - and that makes sense...though it sounds less cool...everyone loves the chopchop.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Excellent - and that makes sense...though it sounds less cool...everyone loves the chopchop.


I don't think a 1.4L is capable of chopchop. 

It ran BAD when there was cam overlap At idel.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> I don't think a 1.4L is capable of chopchop.
> 
> It ran BAD when there was cam overlap At idel.


how about a crackle tune? 🤡🤣


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I don't think a 1.4L is capable of chopchop.
> 
> It ran BAD when there was cam overlap At idel.


Oh, it is:








Thebigzeus said:


> how about a crackle tune? 🤡🤣


You shut your mouth.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Oh, it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That basically what mine sounded like. 

Maybe I just don’t like chop chop?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> how about a crackle tune? 🤡🤣


I have an even better whoosh pssst tune.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Maybe I just don’t like chop chop?


Incorrect.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Incorrect.


Darn. I'll try harder next time professor.


----------



## thebac (Jul 29, 2017)

I have to admit, theres something funny about hearing a Cruze idle like a old-school built SBC


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'll definitely be leaning towards that when I build the Cobalt's engine...if it ever decides it needs that.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> I'll definitely be leaning towards that when I build the Cobalt's engine...if it ever decides it needs that.


I thought you already built that engine?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> I thought you already built that engine?


Oh god no - still stock internals! Been going strong for 13 years and ~90k miles now.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Oh god no - still stock internals! Been going strong for 13 years and ~90k miles now.


Wow. What kind of boost are you running?


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Wow. What kind of boost are you running?


~14 psi depending on the weather (2.9" pulley, full exhaust - header/downpipe/catback). Should be right around 250whp (if the converter would stay locked for a run...), which is where GM found the limit of the rods to be, albeit that was on a nitrous hit, so the limit on boost is probably a little higher.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I just have to clean up the tools from the inside and test drive it.










I had to modify the bumper to get it on. Mainly internal modifications and remove the lower grille.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:
I went for the first test drive today. I just drove normally, not hard. The good news is that the upgraded suspension components make the car corner like it's on rails. Very solid with very minimal body roll. It even got rid of some slightly annoying noises.  

The bad news is that I only had about an inch of clearance between the side exit tail pipe and the ground. The first lip I ran over broke 2 of the mounting points. So, I removed the exhaust rear of the muffler so I could drive it. I'll have to rethink the exhaust.

The car drives completely different. The turbo doesn't start to spool until 2,500 RPM and comes on hard. At only 6 PSI it feels like the WOT on the stock engine. 😆 Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to go beyond that. The tune definitely needs adjustment. Under boost think run great. But in the 1,200 - 2,000 range the engine feels like it wants to stall and almost does.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Do you still use the metal racerx water outlet that leaked?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Do you still use the metal racerx water outlet that leaked?


Yes. I sent that back and RacerX machined it. It hasn't leaked since.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Yes. I sent that back and RacerX machined it. It hasn't leaked since.


Nice, I saw in another post they were backordered until November.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

They might have changed their tooling paths to correct the issue.

And then the obvious supply chain issues.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I thought I'd post an update since it'll be a few weeks until I post another one. I had hand surgery on my left hand and won't be working on the Cruze for a little while. After the left hand heals then they're going to do the right one.

Anyway, here is where I left off on the Cruze. It wants to stall under light load up. This is an intermittent issue under 2 PSI of boost. I believe it may be due to my custom PCV system. I've requested specifications for the check valve I'm using and am awaiting a response.

I've ruled out any ignition and fuel injector related control issues. Just before surgery, the engine stopped warming up as it should under normal driving conditions, so I ordered a thermoswitch for the fan so it doesn't run all the time, and a different thermostat. It's acting like the thermostat is stuck open. The coolant reaches ~150F degrees and stays there unless I disconnect the fan, then things eventually overheat at idel. E85 needs at least 170F degrees to achieve optimal combustion.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> I thought I'd post an update since it'll be a few weeks until I post another one. I had hand surgery on my left hand and won't be working on the Cruze for a little while. After the left hand heals then they're going to do the right one.
> 
> ...


Good luck with the surgeries. Carpel, Cubital or both?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Good luck with the surgeries. Carpel, Cubital or both?


Trigger finger.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> Trigger finger.


I was going to add that, but needed to post to step away. I have trigger thumb, but have had both the other surgeries.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> I was going to add that, but needed to post to step away. I have trigger thumb, but have had both the other surgeries.


I feel for you. How long have you had it? Mine are my middle fingers. Had it for 3 years and finally decided to do something about it.


----------



## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> I feel for you. How long have you had it? Mine are my middle fingers. Had it for 3 years and finally decided to do something about it.


Quite some time, but I am much more cognizant of how I use my hands. I also pay attention to them when they start to feel fatigued. I go in for a consult in a few weeks.

I recently received an injection into one of the thumb joints and that has helped tremendously.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Quite some time, but I am much more cognizant of how I use my hands. I also pay attention to them when they start to feel fatigued. I go in for a consult in a few weeks.
> 
> I recently received an injection into one of the thumb joints and that has helped tremendously.


I had cortisone injections too. For me they helped for about 2 weeks and then the effects wore off. But every body is different.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

My thermostat design worked GREAT! 👎










So I'm going to remove it, clean things up and put an in-line thermostat housing on the output side:


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The hell happened there??


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> My thermostat design worked GREAT! 👎
> 
> ...


NGL that seal job looks horrible lol 😂 Was that bolted to the stock water pump?


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> NGL that seal job looks horrible lol 😂 Was that bolted to the stock water pump?


Not my best work, a little too much sealant, but it's didn't leak.

It was bolted to the stock water pump. It matches the radiator output diameter. I'm going to bolt it back on. Just without the thermostat.


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Not my best work, a little too much sealant, but it's didn't leak.
> 
> It was bolted to the stock water pump. It matches the radiator output diameter. I'm going to bolt it back on. Just without the thermostat.


Looks like the first time I did my water pump


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Looks like the first time I did my water pump


Except, I used the RTV as the gasket.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> The hell happened there??


Sorry didn't see your post.

The snap ring came out of the groove I cut for it in the housing on one side. Coolant flow did the rest.


----------



## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

While I was waiting for the new in-line thermostat, I decided to test the breather check valve. Needless to say it does not completely seal.  Time for more design work. So, I disassembled the valve to see what made it tick. What did I find?

This:









That little 1" white ball is all that seals the check valve. It's hallow and weights all of 2.0 grams! For those of you not familiar with the metric system that's less than 1/320th of a pound. That's not going to seal anything.

So after doing some calculations, and some digging, I found an upgrade that will match the intake manifold cracking/closing pressure of ~ 0.3 PSI.

A 66 gram 1" Stainless Steel solid ball bearing:









So Shiney, can't look away...


----------



## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> While I was waiting for the new in-line thermostat, I decided to test the breather check valve. Needless to say it does not completely seal.  More design work. So I disassembled the valve to see what made it tick. What did I find?
> 
> ...



Now will that ball be too heavy though to move the opposite way though?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> Now will that ball be too heavy though to move the opposite way though?


I edited the post. But, to answer your question: Theoretically No.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

New radiator cap:

View attachment 298632

[/QUOTE]
Is that a Holden piece?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> New radiator cap:
> 
> View attachment 298632


Is that a Holden piece?
[/QUOTE]
No. It's a Griffin Radiator cap. It kind of looks like the Holden emblem though.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*Update:*

I got the new thermostat installed and removed the 90 degree fitting from the upstream oxygen sensor. I installed the factory oil cap until I get the ball bearing for the check valve. I took it for a gentle test drive to keep the crankcase in vacuum since at the moment there is no outlet for positive crankcase pressure. The car runs well. No stalling at idle anymore, I guess those 90 degree fittings are only for rear oxygen sensors.  

Sometimes there is a hiccup at a light, probably due to old fuel. Temperatures stay at between 195 and 180. Good heat after 20 minutes of bleeding the system. The system is much more difficult to bleed with the thermostat on the hot side. Which isn't really a surprise considering the hot side is higher than the cold side.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

JLL said:


> *Update:*
> 
> I got the new thermostat installed and removed the 90 degree fitting from the upstream oxygen sensor. I installed the factory oil cap until I get the ball bearing for the check valve. I took it for a gentle test drive to keep the crankcase in vacuum since at the moment there is no outlet for positive crankcase pressure. The car runs well. No stalling at idle anymore, I guess those 90 degree fittings are only for rear oxygen sensors.
> 
> Sometimes there is a hiccup at a light, probably due to old fuel. Temperatures stay at between 195 and 180. Good heat after 20 minutes of bleeding the system. The system is much more difficult to bleed with the thermostat on the hot side. Which isn't really a surprise considering the hot side is higher than the cold side.


The extenders are really only used to make the rear sensor not sense as much leftover O2 thereby tricking the ECM


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> The extenders are really only used to make the rear sensor not sense as much leftover O2 thereby tricking the ECM


They definitely do that. It was a night and day difference once I removed it.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*
The 1" ball bearing works great in the oil fill check valve. It seals tight and still vents when needed.

I like to think of myself as a good technician but I'm not an exhaust guy. I had the new exhaust put together with stepped exhaust clamps. But Today I went over something and half the exhaust fell off. 

Thankfully didn't loose and pieces and there were just some light scratches on the muffler. So today I made an appointment with a local exhaust shop to have the exhaust welded and ran over the axel to the rear of the car.

Note to myself and CruzeTalk. If you don't know what you're doing, pay a professional to do the job.


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## Mr_Pat (Mar 7, 2021)

Well your learning thats the imortant part


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oopsie!


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE (OLAF Style):*
I visited some exhaust shops to finish my exhaust. They said, "There's no cat on this, were not touching it!" So, I went to the ghetto to talk to a guy. The guy says: "This is a nightmare, but I'll work on it." I came back a few days later to check on it. I say "It looks GREAT! Do you know how much I'll owe you?" He says: "$850 Cash. It's all stainless". I think crap I only expected $400, time to sell some stuff. Tomorrow I go to pick up the car.  The End.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

I got my Cruze back today and parted with $850. IMO it sounds good. It's *much* quiter than the old exhaust. About 25% louder than stock. Except with no cat, *Two* Magnaflow strait-through mufflers (one round and one oval), and 3" pipe. Surprisingly I like it. I can actually hear the turbo spool up now. Now I can fix my coolant leak.

For @Thebigzeus


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Oh that looks excellent. It should also drive you less insane on the freeway.


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## Cruzing12 (Oct 10, 2020)

So when's the re badge? And how exactly are you going about the lettering? OEM, Chrome letter kit?


Looking good.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzing12 said:


> So when's the re badge? And how exactly are you going about the lettering? OEM, Chrome letter kit?
> 
> 
> Looking good.


Thanks. 

I contacted a company that makes custom emblems. ~7 week lead time without paying extra.

That's all I'm going to say.

For Now....


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JLL said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I contacted a company that makes custom emblems. ~7 week lead time without paying extra.
> 
> ...


He paid extra.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Thebigzeus said:


> He paid extra.


Nope. But, I will say a custom emblem is not cheap.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Every time I see this, I think of you...


“I don’t need to organize my parts, I’ll remember where everything goes”


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Blasirl said:


> Every time I see this, I think of you...
> 
> 
> “I don’t need to organize my parts, I’ll remember where everything goes”
> View attachment 299649


Is that a GOOD thing or a BAD thing?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> Is that a GOOD thing or a BAD thing?


Yes.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*:

I got the coolant leak fixed by dismantling the RacerX water outlet. It needed to be revealed where the shaft meets the outlet body.

I also decided to add 1,000 HP by upgrading the sound system. 

I'm not a "thumper" but, I can appreciate an upgraded sound system in the car. So, I bought a headunit and a full set of door speakers. I may add a couple 6"x9"s, an amp, and a subwoofer or two in the spring.

I bought one of Kenwood's new units (Relatively Inexpensive compared to some):










And (4) Kicker 6.75" speakers.










I installed the speakers already after harvesting the surrounds from the factory ones. but, UPS still has the head unit, all the installation goodies associated with that.


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## AutumnCruzeRS (Sep 10, 2012)

JLL said:


> *UPDATE*:
> 
> I got the coolant leak fixed by dismantling the RacerX water outlet. It needed to be revealed where the shaft meets the outlet body.


Can you explain this with more detail. I plan to get this water outlet someday. Thx


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

AutumnCruzeRS said:


> Can you explain this with more detail. I plan to get this water outlet someday. Thx


Sure, the top vent shaft screws into the body of the outlet. It is designed to be sealed solely by an o-ring and a locking collar. I disassembled it, put Permatex water pump & thermostat sealant on the threads and replaced the o-ring.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:*

For any one who is thinking about going with a custom turbo setup on E85, the fuel economy is Awesome... 

Just driving around town:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Good lord that's bad...considerably worse than I'd expect.

A buddy of mine has an '88 5.0 that runs Megasquirt and runs E85 - we got it to a point where the fuel economy was nearly the same as running 93, but with considerably more power. It took a good bit of tweaking - finding different load points while on the freeway with me pulling fuel out until it'd start bucking, bumping it back up a number and then moving onto the next point. I think it typically got around 11-14 MPG depending on different factors (city/highway, how much WOT, etc).


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> Good lord that's bad...considerably worse than I'd expect.
> 
> A buddy of mine has an '88 5.0 that runs Megasquirt and runs E85 - we got it to a point where the fuel economy was nearly the same as running 93, but with considerably more power. It took a good bit of tweaking - finding different load points while on the freeway with me pulling fuel out until it'd start bucking, bumping it back up a number and then moving onto the next point. I think it typically got around 11-14 MPG depending on different factors (city/highway, how much WOT, etc).


There's still some adjustments to be made but, I don't expect fuel economy to get much better. Especially with the 180F Thermostat.

The 650cc injectors are putting a lot of E85 into the cylinders. I'm not even sure it would even run on 93 octane gasoline with those injectors.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yeah, those are pretty good size. He was running 42 lb/hr injectors, but obviously in eight cylinders.


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## Jimster480 (11 mo ago)

JLL said:


> There's still some adjustments to be made but, I don't expect fuel economy to get much better. Especially with the 180F Thermostat.
> 
> The 650cc injectors are putting a lot of E85 into the cylinders. I'm not even sure it would even run on 93 octane gasoline with those injectors.


My Turbo Civic with a single cam D16 gets 32 miles per gallon using 93 with old school ev1 pte 650cc peak and hold Style injectors. City mileage is around 25mpg.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> My Turbo Civic with a single cam D16 gets 32 miles per gallon using 93 with old school ev1 pte 650cc peak and hold Style injectors. City mileage is around 25mpg.


That's impressive


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## Jimster480 (11 mo ago)

What kind of power are you making? I didn't see any Dyno graphs in the first couple pages and there are over 50 pages.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> What kind of power are you making? I didn't see any Dyno graphs in the first couple pages and there are over 50 pages.


I'm not sure. No dyno pages yet. Still in the tuning process. It's on my agenda for the spring. Right now it's tuned for minimum boost pressure (1 Bar) for winter. ❄


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## Jimster480 (11 mo ago)

JLL said:


> I'm not sure. No dyno pages yet. Still in the tuning process. It's on my agenda for the spring. Right now it's tuned for minimum boost pressure (1 Bar) for winter. ❄


I watched the video from Daves world and I just don't understand why these engines don't seem to make any power.... is it the cam grinds or the ports on the head? I wish I had a shop and time to be able to explore the generally poor power produced by these engines. There has to be a bottleneck somewhere. They make torque figures but not HP which suggests flow problems at the higher RPM ranges.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> I watched the video from Daves world and I just don't understand why these engines don't seem to make any power.... is it the cam grinds or the ports on the head? I wish I had a shop and time to be able to explore the generally poor power produced by these engines. There has to be a bottleneck somewhere. They make torque figures but not HP which suggests flow problems at the higher RPM ranges.


The OE style turbine housing is the bottleneck. The exit is about 1/2" in diameter going into the exhaust. GM's goal wasn't power. It was fuel economy. When the Cruze came out in 2011 in the U.S. it was one of the most fuel efficient vehicles available without going hybrid.


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## Jimster480 (11 mo ago)

JLL said:


> The OE style turbine housing is the bottleneck. The exit is about 1/2" in diameter going into the exhaust. GM's goal wasn't power. It was fuel economy. When the Cruze came out in 2011 in the U.S. it was one of the most fuel efficient vehicles available without going hybrid.


Oh yeah that'll do it for sure. I know that the cruze was built completely for fuel efficiency. That's why I was wondering where the bottlenecks are.


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## Dagger (2 mo ago)

How is this build going ?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Dagger said:


> How is this build going ?


Right now it's just sitting on the back pad. I've had a nasty respirator infection for the last week. Not COVID.

Prior to getting sick, I had a custom brass V-band gasket made for the turbo. That fixed the exhaust leak and the intermittent stalling issue on deceleration. I got my custom emblem today but haven't opened it.


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## Dagger (2 mo ago)

JLL said:


> Right now it's just sitting on the back pad. I've had a nasty respirator infection for the last week. Not COVID.
> 
> Prior to getting sick, I had a custom brass V-band gasket made for the turbo. That fixed the exhaust leak and the intermittent stalling issue on deceleration. I got my custom emblem today but haven't opened it.


Do ya have any videos of it ?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Dagger said:


> Do ya have any videos of it ?


No videos. Just lots of pictures.


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## Jimster480 (11 mo ago)

JLL said:


> No videos. Just lots of pictures.


Should make a video when you have it running again. Videos are all the rage today


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

I wanted to provide an update. I bought another round of custom tuning for $450. I think I'm up to $1,800 in tuning including the "stock period, the engine and V3 build, and now the G25-550 build. The Custom tuning is $1,350 of that. Including this round of revisions, it will be 25 revisions in total. 

It saves to be decisive, unlike myself. Keep that in mind kids!

On a positive note, With the G25-550 turned all the way down (14.7 psig), I'm already making more power than I was with my maxed out V3 setup at 24 psig. That being said, The new setup was $4,000 more expensive than my V3 setup.

"More Boost doesn't equal More Power; More Flow equals More Power"


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## Cruzing12 (Oct 10, 2020)

JLL said:


> I wanted to provide an update. I bought another round of custom tuning for $450. I think I'm up to $1,800 in tuning including the "stock period, the engine and V3 build, and now the G25-550 build. The Custom tuning is $1,350 of that. Including this round of revisions, it will be 25 revisions in total.
> 
> It saves to be decisive, unlike myself. Keep that in mind kids!
> 
> ...


Neeeyeah , neeeyeah. 

That's why I'm on the look out for an appropriate sized S so I can spell out CURSE on my Cruze.

Just spent 6hrs in a u pull lot scoring a lightly used manual transmission... Throwing that aside with a slew of other parts I've probably spent close to 3000 and have yet to install any...


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## Cruzing12 (Oct 10, 2020)

JLL said:


> What parts do you have?


Oh at the ready? 

Full drum brake rebuild, plus 1 wheel hub/ tty bolts, drums painted ceramic white

front suspension rebuild Moog spec, everything sept for A arms and reconditioned K frame/ sway bar.

water pump, two coil packs, cam sprocket/tty bolt,

Have a rear latch chrome bar, and now a random tranny. Don't know what else I have but a bit of trinkets for sure.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Cruzing12 said:


> Oh at the ready?
> 
> Full drum brake rebuild, plus 1 wheel hub/ tty bolts, drums painted ceramic white
> 
> ...


Gotcha. I thought you had performance parts.


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## guuyuk (Nov 12, 2015)

Cruzing12 said:


> Neeeyeah , neeeyeah.
> 
> That's why I'm on the look out for an appropriate sized S so I can spell out CURSE on my Cruze.
> 
> Just spent 6hrs in a u pull lot scoring a lightly used manual transmission... Throwing that aside with a slew of other parts I've probably spent close to 3000 and have yet to install any...


Might be able to get the S off of a Traverse, the other vehicles that have S in their name (Suburban, Express van) I think use different size letters than the Cruze.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

guuyuk said:


> Might be able to get the S off of a Traverse, the other vehicles that have S in their name (Suburban, Express van) I think use different size letters than the Cruze.


You can buy 0.75" tall letters that look factory.


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## Cruzing12 (Oct 10, 2020)

JLL said:


> You can buy 0.75" tall letters that look factory.


get them for free at the u pull, but I never remember too.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*: The Cruze will be down for about two week. Today, I shipped out the chassis control module (FSCM) to have my tuner recalibrate it to that take full advantage of the high flow E85 fuel pump.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE:* This is actually the first fuel system on one of my vehicles that I've fully upgraded. So I'm learning as I go along...

I'm pretty much going to have to re-design the fuel supply system. It turns out I have several issues. E85 requires twice as much fuel to combust vs. gasoline. As a result my AEM fuel pump won't flow enough E85 at the pressure needed for my power goals.

There are several reasons for this which I will correct in the spring. On top of the FSCM currently being re-calibrated:

1. The AEM pump just isn't rated for the fuel flow and pressure I need. (I'm going to upgrade pump for the second time.)

2. The factory fuel filter and internal passages, in the pump assembly, is too restrictive. (I'm going to buy or build a custom hanger for the new pump and add external filter. )

3. The factory fuel pulse dampener is too restrictive. (I'm going to upgrade to aftermarket.)

All of this requires that I get off the fence and install my -8AN fuel line.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*: Today I upgraded the fuel pulse dampener. To do this, I cut the braided line at the hard line. Then I cut off the press fit clamp, and doug out the rubber.

The OE pulse dampener and line:









What remained after the cut.









I'll post a picture tomorrow of the bare line.

Radium Engineering Full Pulse Dampener installed:


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

*UPDATE*: My car is still down for the moment but I bought some fuel system parts to prepare for the fuel pump upgrade in the spring. I decided to go with the Deatschwerks DW400. That should give me 367 LPH at my target pressure of 70 PSI according to 3rd party flow testing.

I'll need to redesign the fuel pump hanger as the pump has a larger diameter than the stock pump. But that will be a good winter project.

Deatschwerks DW400









Duel Pass Flex Fuel Mount and New Sensor as not to reduce flow.










Deatschwerks Fuel Filter to replace the restrictive (for my setup) factory filter in the OEM hanger.


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## sbarisic (10 d ago)

This is quite an impressive project, still didn't read the whole thread, but it's on the to-do list as i'm building something similar.



Jimster480 said:


> I watched the video from Daves world and I just don't understand why these engines don't seem to make any power.... is it the cam grinds or the ports on the head? I wish I had a shop and time to be able to explore the generally poor power produced by these engines. There has to be a bottleneck somewhere. They make torque figures but not HP which suggests flow problems at the higher RPM ranges.


Can you link the video?

Yes, they don't flow great at all in the higher RPM ranges.
Here's some dyno graphs from my car.
It's 0.8 bar boost (spring pressure) and 5 degrees advance, 1.35 bar and -2 degrees advance,1.55 bar and about -3 degrees advance.
The boost is fixed from about 3900 to the redline.
Temps started at 18C and climbed to 33C at the end of the run.
This was done on 100 RON in Europe, as we don't have E85 in my country.

K04 turbo, 525cc bosch injectors, no cat, 2.5'' exhaust, bigger intercooler and piping and custom home ported intake manifold. Stock bottom end, stock camshafts, stock valves and everything else.
It's really knock limited on gasoline, you can't shove any more timing into it to make real power like you can on ethanol.

But maybe it's just my tuning 😂, because everything is done by me.





  








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bar_150.png




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@JLL are your tune logs a secret? Can we take a look at them? How much airmass are you flowing and at what boost?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

sbarisic said:


> @JLL are your tune logs a secret? Can we take a look at them? How much airmass are you flowing and at what boost?


Right now the car is still in the conservative stage of the tuning process. I don't do my own tuning so the tune itself is locked. I'm in the process of updating the fuel system, see a few posts back.

From the last data log I took, I do know that the max boost was set to 1.0 Bar/14.7 PSI (spring pressure) with the airflow at 26.1 lbs/min [~197 g/s]. Engine speed was capped at 6,000 RPM and Fuel pressure was limited to 55 PSI [~379 Kpa] at the time of the log.


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## sbarisic (10 d ago)

That's amazing, i can barely reach 200 g/s @ 1.5 bar of boost.

For the reference, 91 g/s @ 4100 RPM resulted in the 216 Nm on the graphs above and 122 g/s resulted in 258 Nm.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

sbarisic said:


> That's amazing, i can barely reach 200 g/s @ 1.5 bar of boost.
> 
> For the reference, 91 g/s @ 4100 RPM resulted in the 216 Nm on the graphs above and 122 g/s resulted in 258 Nm.


I do have the ZZP camshaft upgrade, ZZP Throttle Body, and the RacerX Intake Manifold, to reduce choke points. However, I believe the BIG difference makers are the Garrett G25-550 and my custom exhaust manifold, which is considerably larger than stock. According to Garrett, the G series turbochargers are the highest flowing turbochargers that they manufacture relative to their frame sizes. They are also priced accordingly. 💰💰💰


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