# No brakes!



## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Hey guys I'm having a problem with my Wife's 2012 Cruze. She called me today from work stating that her car barely had any brakes, and the pedal went to the floor. She shut the car off, and restarted it with the same result. After the third time of restarting the car the brakes began to work correctly again. The car was just in a few months ago now for the recall on the brake system, and there was never any problem until today. Any ideas? There working again for now, and I don't want to take it to the dealer for them to just tell me they can't replicate the problem. I'm lost.

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## SneakerFix (Jul 28, 2013)

When was the last time you checked hhr brakes?


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I would look for any sign of a fluid leak at the wheels and the master cylinder and check if the fluid level in the master cylinder has dropped. I would then drive to the nearest dealer and tell them what happened as this can lead to a life threatening situation.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

The recall addresses no power assist.

This would show itself as a high, hard pedal that required a geat deal of pressure to stop the car.

You are describing a situation where brake line pressure is lost.
A low pedal that occurs with no prior warning can indicate low brake fluid, meaning the master cylinder has injested air, a broken or leaking hydraulic brake line or hose, or a failed master cylinder.
A failed master is unable to build hydraulic line pressure and reacts the same as low low fluid or a leak.....pedal almost to floor.

Regardless.....drive this car (if you must) slowly and allowing for much longer stopping distances to a professional....either your dealer or a repair shop.
Do not delay.

Rob


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

I got it home. The master cylinder is full of fluid, and there are no visible leaks anywhere. I drove it 75 or so miles total after restarting the car the 3rd time with no more brake issues. Somethings definitely not right, but there's nothing physically wrong with the braking system that I see.

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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Here is where the fluid level is at now.

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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

You could have contaminated brake fluid, I would take it to a professional and at least have the fluid changed and the brakes bled just to be safe.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

It is possible for the master cylinder to have a small leak in the diaphragm that lets air in. You may not lose brake fluid, but will lose braking pressure in the manner that the car did - pedal sinking to the floor.

You may find that after the car sits for some time, you will have to pump the brake pedal again to get pressure back. You can also take the car out and hold the brakes on a hill, transmission in drive (M1 for the Cruze - to keep it in gear). Hold steady pressure on the brakes against the engine and watch for a sinking brake pedal over the course of a few minutes.

Nonetheless, I would get it to the dealer - but finding a way to duplicate it would be beneficial to your sanity and time spent with the dealer.


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Yea I'm afraid duplicating it will be a problem. I read about complaints on this on I believe the NHTSA's website. One person said their dealer replaced the recalled part a 2nd time to fix their problem. Their car did the exact same thing my Wife's did down to the letter. I'm going to try and duplicate it again in the morning. 

Either way this car is going down the road. It's been a lemon the past few months for only having 60k on the clock, and I'm not wasting a bunch of time, and money trying to chase down a random braking issue.

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## Zach.K (Apr 17, 2014)

It sounds like something in the power assist is failing. Maybe a vacuum assist switch or possibly the Master Cylinder failing.


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Okay quick update. I played around with the car this morning after it sat all last evening, and overnight. I could not duplicate the problem. Called the dealership, and they said they are going to replace the recalled part for a second time because the first new one they put in could be faulty.


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## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

Sounds like a plan. Could you do everyone here a favor? When you pick up your car after the replacement of the recalled switch, could you find out if the part number changed from the old one? That might tell us if they changed the design, or source, of the switch or not.


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

Well my Wife picked it up after they replaced the recalled part again so I have no idea what the part numbers are? So far everything is working good though.

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## cruzester (Apr 26, 2011)

Daryl said:


> Well my Wife picked it up after they replaced the recalled part again so I have no idea what the part numbers are? So far everything is working good though.
> 
> Sent from my Droid Ultra


_Daryl, Please look on your dealership service invoice and check to see what parts were replaced. The part number will be on the invoice.
I also as many others had the recall brake vacuum micro switch part #13460776 performed, but it has not made any difference in my brake feel. I am certain that there must be something else that needs being replaced. I never had such mysterious brakes in all the 18 cars I have owned throughout my life. These are very unpredictable brakes... I will eventually figure out this nonsense..._


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## Danny5 (Dec 22, 2011)

Pedal to the floor is no bueno. Your symptoms sound like a cracked or bad seal in the master cylinder assembly. It's only a matter of time.

If you experience pedal to the floor again, quickly pump the brakes to get pedal feel and braking ability back.


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## Zach.K (Apr 17, 2014)

Danny5 said:


> Pedal to the floor is no bueno. Your symptoms sound like a cracked or bad seal in the master cylinder assembly. It's only a matter of time.
> 
> If you experience pedal to the floor again, quickly pump the brakes to get pedal feel and braking ability back.


Not in this case. 

Delivered from my pigeon


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## 12silverLT (Jan 31, 2014)

In my car I can push the brake all the way down to the floor. Although I've never braked hard enough to do it coming to a stop I can do it when I'm stopped or in park. Is that a problem? Could it have to do with the recall notice for the brake vacuum or whatever?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

12silverLT said:


> In my car I can push the brake all the way down to the floor. Although I've never braked hard enough to do it coming to a stop I can do it when I'm stopped or in park. Is that a problem? Could it have to do with the recall notice for the brake vacuum or whatever?


There's air in your brake system, nothing to do with the vacuum assist. A bad vacuum pump or check valve would make the pedal rock hard and hard to push. 



Sent from Bill the WonderPhone


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## Cruise11 (May 7, 2014)

I had the same problem. My brakes completely failed during rush hour traffic. It took a few days at the dealer, but I finally got it fixed. They could not duplicate the problem. They replaced the recalled switch and then the brake vacuum pump or something like that. I posted about it at the time. Can't find the post now.


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## au201 (May 18, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> There's air in your brake system, nothing to do with the vacuum assist. A bad vacuum pump or check valve would make the pedal rock hard and hard to push.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Bill the WonderPhone


I doubt this person has a problem. The way the he worded the post, it sounds like normal operation. Anyone can step on the pedal and push it to the floor...



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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

au201 said:


> I doubt this person has a problem. The way the he worded the post, it sounds like normal operation. Anyone can step on the pedal and push it to the floor...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


I can't.

The brake pedal should NEVER go to the floor.


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## au201 (May 18, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> I can't.
> 
> The brake pedal should NEVER go to the floor.


Well I'll check again tomorrow. But pretty certain that I've pushed it all the way to the floor in my bros 04 camry, moms 11 GMC Terrain, and my 10 Camaro...it takes about all my might to get it there but I'm 99 percent sure it goes. I can feel the pedal hitting a stopper...(the only reason I've done this is because I get bored waiting for people lol.)


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## 12silverLT (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm guessing its air in the system. It goes down way easier than my previous car, my moms jeep, dads 300, friends sebring etc... It definitely doesn't take all my might to push it down to the floor but at the same time its not like im hitting the brake to the floor in normal operation.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

au201 said:


> I doubt this person has a problem. The way the he worded the post, it sounds like normal operation. Anyone can step on the pedal and push it to the floor...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


This is news to me the only time a brake pedal should go to the floor is when bleeding the brakes, otherwise it is a major problem.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> This is news to me the only time a brake pedal should go to the floor is when bleeding the brakes, otherwise it is a major problem.


Even then, if you touch the floor with the pedal, you'll often damage the seals in the master cylinder.




au201 said:


> Well I'll check again tomorrow. But pretty certain that I've pushed it all the way to the floor in my bros 04 camry, moms 11 GMC Terrain, and my 10 Camaro...it takes about all my might to get it there but I'm 99 percent sure it goes. I can feel the pedal hitting a stopper...(the only reason I've done this is because I get bored waiting for people lol.)


Again, the brake pedal should NEVER go to the FLOOR like the clutch pedal. It should bottom out of travel after a few inches, but it won't be touching the floorboard.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Even then, if you touch the floor with the pedal, you'll often damage the seals in the master cylinder.


I haven't had a problem with MC damage when bleeding brakes and I have been doing this since before cars had a duel master cylinder.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Aussie said:


> I haven't had a problem with MC damage when bleeding brakes and I have been doing this since before cars had a duel master cylinder.


There can be a buildup of crud or burrs from machining at the end of the cylinder travel that will tear the seals, thereby causing pressure to leak out of the MC and a spongy pedal.

I'm glad it's worked for you, but it's not advice I'd walk around giving out. I generally place a small board under the pedal when bleeding to keep it from hitting the floor.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I guess that is why I haven't had a problem because we always honed away any build up or burrs when we worked on any hydraulic cylinders to give a really good seal.


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## Daryl (Nov 10, 2013)

cruzester said:


> _Daryl, Please look on your dealership service invoice and check to see what parts were replaced. The part number will be on the invoice.
> I also as many others had the recall brake vacuum micro switch part #13460776 performed, but it has not made any difference in my brake feel. I am certain that there must be something else that needs being replaced. I never had such mysterious brakes in all the 18 cars I have owned throughout my life. These are very unpredictable brakes... I will eventually figure out this nonsense..._



Here is the part number on the invoice: 13460776

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## au201 (May 18, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> Again, the brake pedal should NEVER go to the FLOOR like the clutch pedal. It should bottom out of travel after a few inches, but it won't be touching the floorboard.


Well I stand corrected. I watched the pedal while depressing it, it doesn't go to the floor. I perceived the pedal bottoming out as hitting the floor. Thank you for correcting me. Lol. 


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## 12silverLT (Jan 31, 2014)

au201 said:


> Well I stand corrected. I watched the pedal while depressing it, it doesn't go to the floor. I perceived the pedal bottoming out as hitting the floor. Thank you for correcting me. Lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


That might be the same issue as me. I'll have to check if its bottoming out or literally hitting the floor


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