# Dreaded Cracked Piston Got Me



## theshiftyjelly (May 26, 2018)

Just been diagnosed with the dreaded cracked piston. '17 Premier Hatch with 20k on it. Are the other 3 pistons a ticking time bomb? Should I trade it off asap after the first piston gets fixed?


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

I would hope they would change them all? 
Have you been running premium gas?


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## theshiftyjelly (May 26, 2018)

Chevrolet will only change under warranty what is busted. Had that conversation today. No budging. I've ran premium for the last 6 months. 89 the first year. Regardless, very disappointed in the product. 



TDCruze said:


> I would hope they would change them all?
> Have you been running premium gas?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

theshiftyjelly said:


> Chevrolet will only change under warranty what is busted. Had that conversation today. No budging. I've ran premium for the last 6 months. 89 the first year. Regardless, very disappointed in the product.


I keep seeing people say this. It's the most untrue and lazy piece of information that dealers are passing on to people and it's asinine and completely wrong, and I can't believe any professional GM tech would replace ONE piston.

GM Service Information Document #5080870 covers 2016-2018 Cruze and Encore with the LE2 1.4L engine. It's been out and in force since May of 2018.

It's for vehicles with a P0300 misfire DTCs, or running rough that's found to be due to piston damage. If any cylinder is found with low compression or excessive pressure leakage due to piston damage ALL FOUR piston sets get replaced. (unless the cylinder walls have been damaged then it gets a new engine)

Additionally it gets the newest ECM calibration to reduce the possibility of a repeat issue.

I see people argue with dealers and techs, and call GM all the time for bullshit nuisance complaints and things related to optional equipment and convenience features, but no one seems to be calling out dealers on this ridiculousness. 

Techs and dealerships  are NOT instructed by GM to replace a single piston for this issue.

Installing a new premade piston kit(as opposed to ordering individual pistons and rods) has been the procedure for this issue since about June of 2017.


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## theshiftyjelly (May 26, 2018)

So what do I do?



Ma v e n said:


> theshiftyjelly said:
> 
> 
> > Chevrolet will only change under warranty what is busted. Had that conversation today. No budging. I've ran premium for the last 6 months. 89 the first year. Regardless, very disappointed in the product.
> ...


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## Cruzen18 (Jan 28, 2018)

I believe this is the starting point...(as Maven notes)

GM Service Information Document #5080870 covers 2016-2018 Cruze and Encore with the LE2 1.4L engine. It's been out and in force since May of 2018.

It's for vehicles with a P0300 misfire DTCs, or running rough that's found to be due to piston damage. If any cylinder is found with low compression or excessive pressure leakage due to piston damage ALL FOUR piston sets get replaced. (unless the cylinder walls have been damaged then it gets a new engine)

Additionally it gets the newest ECM calibration to reduce the possibility of a repeat issue


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

Are you talking to just the dealer, or to GM's customer service? We used to have a customer service person in the forum, but I haven't seen anyone for some time now. Someone else might have an idea on how to do it.


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## theshiftyjelly (May 26, 2018)

Just spoke with customer service. There's no bulletin by that number they claim on this issue. Can you provide me further please asap?



Cruzen18 said:


> I believe this is the starting point...(as Maven notes)
> 
> GM Service Information Document #5080870 covers 2016-2018 Cruze and Encore with the LE2 1.4L engine. It's been out and in force since May of 2018.
> 
> ...


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

theshiftyjelly said:


> Just spoke with customer service. There's no bulletin by that number they claim on this issue. Can you provide me further please asap?


https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/118595/4822191


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## theshiftyjelly (May 26, 2018)

Thanks. 



jblackburn said:


> theshiftyjelly said:
> 
> 
> > Just spoke with customer service. There's no bulletin by that number they claim on this issue. Can you provide me further please asap?
> ...


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Sorry, I deal with document IDs all the time. The dealer could look up the document in Service Information. 

The item jbkackburn posted is actually the original version of the info for this problem, and not the newest, it been updated beyond that "Preliminary Information" document to a normal "Technical Service Bulletin" or TSB that most people know of. 

TSB 18-NA-171 is what you want to tell anyone who didn't like that document # I gave previously.


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## theshiftyjelly (May 26, 2018)

UPDATE:. Fought the good fight and all 4 pistons are being replaced under warranty, not just the defective one. Thank you for your help!


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## Iamantman (Sep 24, 2018)

theshiftyjelly said:


> UPDATE:. Fought the good fight and all 4 pistons are being replaced under warranty, not just the defective one. Thank you for your help!


Yay, happy to hear! I can't believe they would have fought you on that.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

my 17 lt had it happen with around 25k or so they will normally replace all the pistons and do a motor rebuild and takes about a week or two 

i asked for a new engine they said no...oh well


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> my 17 lt had it happen with around 25k or so they will normally replace all the pistons and do a motor rebuild and takes about a week or two
> 
> i asked for a new engine they said no...oh well


If it takes two weeks, hopefully that's due to scheduling or part availability issues, and not the tech taking a week or two. It's a 2 day job to replace pistons.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

yea no idea but its all fixed and good now


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## Bob Paris (Apr 10, 2017)

Ma v e n said:


> If it takes two weeks, hopefully that's due to scheduling or part availability issues, and not the tech taking a week or two. It's a 2 day job to replace pistons.


MY wife's 2017 hatch just had 4 pistons replaced at 23,500 miles after a P0300 code misfire etc. I was happy to see that the tech also replaced the lower oil pan [I suppose in case any metal from the damaged piston had found its way in there] and the balancer bolt - this bolt designed to be single-use. Job took one week and 20 different part #'s had to be sourced.


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## Schkaddy (Jul 2, 2019)

theshiftyjelly said:


> Just been diagnosed with the dreaded cracked piston. '17 Premier Hatch with 20k on it. Are the other 3 pistons a ticking time bomb? Should I trade it off asap after the first piston gets fixed?


Hey i had the same situation in my 17 cruze . It had like 60k on it. One of the piston cracked and excessive smoke came out. I went to the dealer and they replaced the whole engine plus gave me a rental for a week. It was all covered in my warranty that includes rental cost too. It works amazing now.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Oil Pans can be cleaned out in the solvent tank. Or carb/brake cleaner.


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## FrankVWTDI (Sep 16, 2017)

My sons 2017 Cruze with 21k on it, is n the shop for 4 piston replacement. The cylinders are in great shape, so scoring. The mechanic said that it was the best one he has seen so far. I forgot to ask him just him any has he done. I have a 2017cruze diesel with, knock on wood, np problems.


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## Soflown (Aug 15, 2019)

Just called the dealer and set up an appointment to get me software up to date. In at 49930 miles and am out of warranty, so $125.00.

Crazy the service writer couldn't believe I was requesting a software update with no check engine light on. I asked him, "If you could potentially stop a $1700 repair, would you?"

So if they provide me more on the calibration, I will let you all know. Opponent is in the 26th.


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## Dustingreenway1 (Nov 30, 2019)

Schkaddy said:


> Hey i had the same situation in my 17 cruze . It had like 60k on it. One of the piston cracked and excessive smoke came out. I went to the dealer and they replaced the whole engine plus gave me a rental for a week. It was all covered in my warranty that includes rental cost too. It works amazing now.


How was your 2017 Cruz under warranty if it had 60k miles? Mine just started sputtering at 60k. I has spark plugs and fuel system cleaning done. It ran good for a week. Took it to autozone and had a cylinder 1 misfire. I replaced the coil pack but it only helped a little. How can I tell if the piston is damaged?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

compression check


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## Dustingreenway1 (Nov 30, 2019)

I wonder how much that would cost. I really dont want to take it to the dealer or a shop and just have them throw parts at it. Car runs great when you give it some gas. It's only at low rpms. No smoke coming out of exhaust.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Dustingreenway1 said:


> I wonder how much that would cost. I really dont want to take it to the dealer or a shop and just have them throw parts at it. Car runs great when you give it some gas. It's only at low rpms. No smoke coming out of exhaust.


30 mins of labor


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

If you replaced the coil pack. YOu can pull the plug out and run your own compression check. 

Also, did you check the plug boot and make sure the spring was installed properly. That seems to be a common problem.


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## Dustingreenway1 (Nov 30, 2019)

I'll have to google and see how to do a compression text. When I took the old one out it looked fine, I didnt see and trails where the spark may have jumped. I looked in the new one and could see the spring, so I'm assuming it was fine. I'd be very surprised if a piston was bad and I'm not confident pulling the pistons myself. I have fb messenger if that would be easier for us to chat.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Best results on a warm engine. 
Pull the plugS out. Screw in compression tester. They're fairly cheap at harborfreight if you are close to one. 
You'll have to hold the throttle wide open. And crank the car over a few rounds. 

I retired from wrenching 20 years ago and it sounds like there's a trick to throttle open these days. Compared to yesteryear. You'll have to google how. Or someone can explain it here. 

As for the plug springs. Sounds like it's really easy to not have them positioned properly for a good spark connection. When mounting the coil pack.


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> Best results on a warm engine.
> Pull the plugS out. Screw in compression tester. They're fairly cheap at harborfreight if you are close to one.
> You'll have to hold the throttle wide open. And crank the car over a few rounds.
> 
> ...


If you hold wide open and crank on an injection car it should go into flood mode. You also can't force open or closed the throttle plate on these throttle bodies or it has a fit with the protections in the ECU.

I'm not sure how one would go about that at all anymore. I'd imagine the plate would crack trying to crack at least, but it might not be enough. Might need specific GM tools to do that is all I can think.


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## Dustingreenway1 (Nov 30, 2019)

I have figured out the issue. I took it to the dealer. Compression test was good but I have a bad purge valve. A bad purge valve will mess up the fuel and air ratio and cause misfires. The tech also me my turbo wasnt building as much boost as it should. They want to charge me $1300 for turbo, $30 for the valve for a grand total of $2000. I called GM to see if they could help. I was told that I was eligible for cost assistance so I'm waiting to hear back. Either way I'm not paying for a turbo and I'll change the valve myself.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

PolarisX said:


> If you hold wide open and crank on an injection car it should go into flood mode. You also can't force open or closed the throttle plate on these throttle bodies or it has a fit with the protections in the ECU.
> 
> I'm not sure how one would go about that at all anymore. I'd imagine the plate would crack trying to crack at least, but it might not be enough. Might need specific GM tools to do that is all I can think.


Pull the fuse to the ecm??????

I've never had a problem before on injection cars. But they didn't have electronic pedals. 

I'd think if you pulled the fuses to the ecm, ignition, fuel pump. You shouldn't have any issues other then having to drive through the computer relearn process maybe.


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

If the ECM calls the starter I wonder if it would even spin. Considering these cars don't have to be held to crank (just tap the key to on) I would assume so.

I'm not arguing, I'm actually trying to figure this out too.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

theshiftyjelly said:


> UPDATE:. Fought the good fight and all 4 pistons are being replaced under warranty, not just the defective one. Thank you for your help!


It is too bad you had to do any fight in the first place. Why doesn't the servicing dealer fight to make it right?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Good point, Polar.


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

MRO1791 said:


> It is too bad you had to do any fight in the first place. Why doesn't the servicing dealer fight to make it right?


One would assume its warranty work, less desirable, and they might just want the labor hours to go elsewhere.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

PolarisX said:


> One would assume its warranty work, less desirable, and they might just want the labor hours to go elsewhere.


In other words, the servicing dealer is not all that concerned about doing right by the customer, they should have their first time quality and getting it right for the customer as their priority, and if they are short on help to get things done, just be honest with the estimate on job completion. Doing a poor job on a new car because you don't want to take the time to do it right, even when GM will pay under warranty (granted they don't pay the servicing dealers very much, but that is what they agree to when they choose to deal with GM, that is NOT the fault of the customer that is buying a GM product, and thus the customer should not be penalized by issues between the servicing dealer and GM for warranty work. This is just not acceptable). It seems good customer service is becoming more rare.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Dustingreenway1 said:


> I have figured out the issue. I took it to the dealer. Compression test was good but I have a bad purge valve. A bad purge valve will mess up the fuel and air ratio and cause misfires. The tech also me my turbo wasnt building as much boost as it should. They want to charge me $1300 for turbo, $30 for the valve for a grand total of $2000.


MSRP on the turbo and manifold appears to be $815.69, street price $600-625.






2016-2019 GM GM 12685682 Compressor Air Intake Turbocharger | GM Outlet


2016-2019 GM part # 12685682 - Compressor Air Intake Turbocharger




www.gmoutletparts.com


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## babs (Dec 30, 2019)

theshiftyjelly said:


> Just been diagnosed with the dreaded cracked piston. '17 Premier Hatch with 20k on it. Are the other 3 pistons a ticking time bomb? Should I trade it off asap after the first piston gets fixed?


The 2016 and 2017 models have problems with the pistons being cracked over time. The 2018 and 2019 models do not have that problem due to Chevy making the pistons reinforced for the 2018 and 19 models. If i were you I would trade your cruze in for a 2018 or 2019 model. I have a 2018 chevy cruze RS premier ltz2 and it has 32,000 miles on it and no problems. But MAKE SURE YOU RUN 91 OR 93 IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The engine design was made for racing cars in japan from what my friend told me in Engineering at Chevy. If you put in 87 you will have knocking problems and can lead to catastrophic failure of the engine. These 1.4 engines are a high compression engine. He said these engines can get out almost 400 hp with a couple of upgrades. They were planning on releasing the Chevy Cruze SS but in NA but only released it in Brazil due to Ford dropping the ford Focus Line up. Hope that helps!!


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## sarellanes_2016cruse (Feb 24, 2020)

Our 2016 Chevy Cruse went into the dealership with a cracked piston. GM decided with a warranty to replace the engine as well as the turbo system. Should I we trade in the car after it has been fixed? What are the chances of this happening again with the replacement engine?


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## WillL84 (Aug 5, 2019)

sarellanes_2016cruse said:


> Our 2016 Chevy Cruse went into the dealership with a cracked piston. GM decided with a warranty to replace the engine as well as the turbo system. Should I we trade in the car after it has been fixed? What are the chances of this happening again with the replacement engine?


From what I've seen the new engine SHOULD have the updated pistons in it to prevent this in the future.


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## sarellanes_2016cruse (Feb 24, 2020)

WillL84 said:


> From what I've seen the new engine SHOULD have the updated pistons in it to prevent this in the future.



Thank you. That is a relief!


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

WillL84 said:


> From what I've seen the new engine SHOULD have the updated pistons in it to prevent this in the future.


But it's best to use a good synthetic oil with low speed preignition protection, and to avoid using 87 octane in it to prevent it from happening again.


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## sarellanes_2016cruse (Feb 24, 2020)

Thank you I will keep that in mind.


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

jblackburn said:


> But it's best to use a good synthetic oil with low speed preignition protection, and to avoid using 87 octane in it to prevent it from happening again.


I've moved to SN+ Castrol Edge for the lower calcium content on both of our Gen2s for this exact reason. Our 2016.5 is heading over 60k with the original pistons. We also run 93 octane and do not lug the engine in either.


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## WillL84 (Aug 5, 2019)

jblackburn said:


> But it's best to use a good synthetic oil with low speed preignition protection, and to avoid using 87 octane in it to prevent it from happening again.


 it's due to the oil not running 87


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

WillL84 said:


> it's due to the oil not running 87


The only times I've ever had nasty knock or power pull, I was running 87 and Midway into the rpm band. These cars just don't like it.


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

WillL84 said:


> it's due to the oil not running 87


These engines make some serious KR on 87. 2 - 5º of KR isn't uncommon just doing a highway merge in the summer. Tuned with 93 octane I get a few blips under 1º of KR which I assume is false knock. Same deal on the car that isn't tuned as well, so its not just the tune desensitizing the knock sensors.

I truly believe GM is leaning way too hard on the knock sensors in these cars to allow it to run 87 octane. The oil might not help things either, but the combination seems to rip early LE2s pistons apart. Not to mention the trash stock logic on the 6T35 lugging everywhere, the car is an LSPI nightmare.

API SP replacing SN+ should help for the oil part across the board.

Right now 91/93 octane and a low calcium content SN+ oil seem to be the best defense against standard pre-ignition and LSPI events.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Soflown said:


> Just called the dealer and set up an appointment to get me software up to date. In at 49930 miles and am out of warranty, so $125.00.


I know dealership service departments have to make money and if they can't bill it as a warranty it costs them money, but ****. If I were the service manager at a dealership I'd try to work with you to get a software update done for you gratis, because it seems like Chevy has that as something that should be a warranty/recall item no matter the age or mileage.


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## Bob Paris (Apr 10, 2017)

theshiftyjelly said:


> Just been diagnosed with the dreaded cracked piston. '17 Premier Hatch with 20k on it. Are the other 3 pistons a ticking time bomb? Should I trade it off asap after the first piston gets fixed?


Since the parts have been redesigned, the dealer will replace all 4 pistons etc. My wife's car had this issue and the repair including replacing 20 different part #'s including 4 pistons, 4 rings and 4 rods... Service performed in August of 2019 at 23,568 miles and car has performed flawlessly since then.


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## JunkieXL (Nov 24, 2017)

I see so many of these posts, not just here but seemingly everywhere. I'm starting to wonder if it's not an IF issue but a WHEN with the 16/17's. At first, I thought it was mainly seen in the first 15k miles past that you're in the clear. Now I'm seeing 50 and 60k miles the pistons are going. The 2nd gens have a what 5yr/60k mile powertrain warranty? **** and here I started to let my hair down about this issue sitting at 31k miles with my '17 LT as of writing this. Now it's back on my mind again lol. I take a lot of road trips as well. Though I've been running Shell 93 octane and Amsoil Signature Series oil in it since I rolled her off the lot. Fingers crossed.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Most of the piston stories have been dealer oil changes.

There's been one posting of using a lube shop. 

On this forum. I don't know about other forums or cars using the same motor.


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## WillL84 (Aug 5, 2019)

JunkieXL said:


> I see so many of these posts, not just here but seemingly everywhere. I'm starting to wonder if it's not an IF issue but a WHEN with the 16/17's. At first, I thought it was mainly seen in the first 15k miles past that you're in the clear. Now I'm seeing 50 and 60k miles the pistons are going. The 2nd gens have a what 5yr/60k mile powertrain warranty? **** and here I started to let my hair down about this issue sitting at 31k miles with my '17 LT as of writing this. Now it's back on my mind again lol. I take a lot of road trips as well. Though I've been running Shell 93 octane and Amsoil Signature Series oil in it since I rolled her off the lot. Fingers crossed.


Yea I'm at 12k with my '17 and I'm worried about it. If it goes I hope it goes while it's still in the 5 year part because I know I won't be over the 60k part. It had 6k on it when I got it and I just had an oil change done at ~10k when it was at ~25% and made sure the shop (local independant place I've been using for 20 years now) put in the proper oil. I also recently switched to running 93 (so much for buying this car to save on fuel costs) so I'm hoping I don't ever have the problem. I also try not to lug it much as that seems to be a contributing factor. I'll pop the pedal to get it to downshift instead.


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## JunkieXL (Nov 24, 2017)

snowwy66 said:


> Most of the piston stories have been dealer oil changes.
> 
> There's been one posting of using a lube shop.
> 
> On this forum. I don't know about other forums or cars using the same motor.


I saw a guy on here about a year or so back who had piston 1 blow on his '17 and he like me ran 93 exclusively and a top tier synthetic. Lost the cyl at 8k if memory serves. Saw another post around the same time a woman lost her #1 piston at only 3k miles she though was on 87 and DEXROS dealer oil.

I tried to find that post as I commented on it, but none of my old posts/comments are showing up. Not sure if things were deleted when the site was updated?





WillL84 said:


> Yea I'm at 12k with my '17 and I'm worried about it. If it goes I hope it goes while it's still in the 5 year part because I know I won't be over the 60k part. It had 6k on it when I got it and I just had an oil change done at ~10k when it was at ~25% and made sure the shop (local independant place I've been using for 20 years now) put in the proper oil. I also recently switched to running 93 (so much for buying this car to save on fuel costs) so I'm hoping I don't ever have the problem. I also try not to lug it much as that seems to be a contributing factor. I'll pop the pedal to get it to downshift instead.


Yea I honestly plan to get rid of my Cruze soon as I'm done paying it off (8 payments left!) I mean its an OK car. No real issues other than my wonky transmission. But with the piston issues and the fact car is now discontinued so it's going to be progressively harder to find parts as well as more and more expensive to repair, time to move on. Its also not that fun to drive. Great MPG though (I average 34 in city and 43 on the highway, hand calculated).

There are other benefits to running 93 top tier gas other than just the octane increase. On top of that Cruzes have such a small tank, you're only paying a few bucks more per fill-up. Granted that adds up over time, but still. Pick a chain and stick with them. Most of the big guys have a rewards program so you can get 93 quite cheaper. I know with Shell I get 10 cents off the gallon with my Shell card.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I wouldn't worry about parts. They have to be carried for 10 years. That's 2029.

Olds is still available and they haven't been around for 20 years.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

im at almost 70k miles now dealer fixed my issue at around 19-20k and all good since then!


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> im at almost 70k miles now dealer fixed my issue at around 19-20k and all good since then!


You using premium unleaded 100% of the time?


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

lol hell no its a cruze not a racecar i use 87 95% of the time i fill up with 91 once a month or so and also use lucas fuel treatment about every month or two

now my camaro only gets 91 and its tuned for it so yea...


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> lol hell no its a cruze not a racecar i use 87 95% of the time i fill up with 91 once a month or so and also use lucas fuel treatment about every month or two
> 
> now my camaro only gets 91 and its tuned for it so yea...


Any/all turbocharged Cruze are tuned for premium unleaded.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

lol no they are not they are an economy car made to use with 87 octane a turbocharged camaro or cobalt ss yes as its a performance car but not a sonic or cruze


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> lol no they are not they are an economy car made to use with 87 octane a turbocharged camaro or cobalt ss yes as its a performance car but not a sonic or cruze


No.

Is it made to run on 87 through computer tuning? Yes.

Does it benefit from running higher octane? Yes, it's a turbo car with a high compression ratio.

Does it run well on 87? No.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

i bought mine for gas mileage not performance i have a camaro ss for that and its tuned for 91. Dealer says 87 is fine thats what i run, but ill run 91 or so once a month but not gonna put 91 in it every week sorry not sorry


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## WillL84 (Aug 5, 2019)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> i bought mine for gas mileage not performance i have a camaro ss for that and its tuned for 91. Dealer says 87 is fine thats what i run, but ill run 91 or so once a month but not gonna put 91 in it every week sorry not sorry


Until you end up with a cracked piston and junk motor. Have fun with that.


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

lol already had it happen buddy... obviously you dont pay attention but dealer literally said it wasnt because of that you keep wasting your money putting in 91 octane in your cruze ill save it for my camaro


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## Fireworks234 (Jan 4, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> lol already had it happen buddy... obviously you dont pay attention but dealer literally said it wasnt because of that you keep wasting your money putting in 91 octane in your cruze ill save it for my camaro


This is the stuff they're talking about bud: What fuel to run... 87 octane vs 93 octane... EDIT (or E85?)


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

So I can go back to running 85?


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

woa woa we talking about 87 vs 91 lol where do you even buy 85? lol


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## HBCRUZE2017 (Jan 25, 2018)

ive ran 87 and 91 before not tuned and not really seen a big difference in mpg power maybe? but nothing huge...its a cruze again not a racecar


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> lol no they are not they are an economy car made to use with 87 octane a turbocharged camaro or cobalt ss yes as its a performance car but not a sonic or cruze


It is widely acknowledged that the engine in the Cruze is gimped to use 87 octane only to push a widely-selling product into the US market. People buying an entry-level Chevrolet would not tolerate a car that requires mid-grade or premium fuel, so GM make it capable of using 87 octane with reduced performance.

Best results, depending on your location/climate, are to use at least mid-grade during colder/winter months, and to use premium fuel during any hot weather months.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> woa woa we talking about 87 vs 91 lol where do you even buy 85? lol


85 octane fuel is available in a few locations in the high plains states (the middle of the USA). It's so limited availability it's not worth mentioning.

They were referring to E85, a blend of 85% ethanol with regular unleaded that results in about 100-105 octane.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

I don't know about the mid states but 85 is pretty common for us in the western mountains.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> I don't know about the mid states but 85 is pretty common for us in the western mountains.


Almost any regular gasoline car without a turbocharger can probably run fine with 85 octane.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> ive ran 87 and 91 before not tuned and not really seen a big difference in mpg power maybe? but nothing huge...its a cruze again not a racecar


You have to run at least 3 tanks of premium fuel through the car so the ECU can recalibrate to having 91-93 octane fuel.


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## 17Hatch6MT (Dec 28, 2015)

Lower octane in mountain areas because the thinner air means less pressure in the cylinder and less octane is necessary to prevent detonation.


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## WillL84 (Aug 5, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> Almost any regular gasoline car without a turbocharger can probably run fine with 85 octane.


Not these days. Cars now have higher compression ratios which require higher octane fuels.


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## 67gtonr (Dec 29, 2019)

I have a 2018 Cruz LT I purchased last Oct. with about 50K miles on it. Yesterday, while traveling on the Freeway the car started shaking and CEL lights came on. Had it towed home, checked engine codes and it came up w/ P0301, and P0011 and occasionally P0500. IT idles rough, the oil was somewhat low so I topped it off, drive around the block but the P0301 code keeps coming back. i changed the coil pack between the #1 and the #2 cylinders, no change. I checked the spark plug on #4 looked fine, I changed them about 12K miles ago. Checked the #1 plug and it is fouled seems like with the carbon there is oil. I put new plugin, made little difference still no power, rough idle and P0301 code returns. The car has 85K on it so I assume it is out of warranty. I took off the oil filler cap and there is smoke coming out, oil splatter noise and air.
What are my options and what are the costs?


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

67gtonr said:


> I have a 2018 Cruz LT I purchased last Oct. with about 50K miles on it. Yesterday, while traveling on the Freeway the car started shaking and CEL lights came on. Had it towed home, checked engine codes and it came up w/ P0301, and P0011 and occasionally P0500. IT idles rough, the oil was somewhat low so I topped it off, drive around the block but the P0301 code keeps coming back. i changed the coil pack between the #1 and the #2 cylinders, no change. I checked the spark plug on #4 looked fine, I changed them about 12K miles ago. Checked the #1 plug and it is fouled seems like with the carbon there is oil. I put new plugin, made little difference still no power, rough idle and P0301 code returns. The car has 85K on it so I assume it is out of warranty. I took off the oil filler cap and there is smoke coming out, oil splatter noise and air.
> What are my options and what are the costs?


Run a compression test, but pretty much a guarantee it's cracked. 

Options are:
1) Trade it in 
2) Gather up service receipts, etc, and talk to a dealership. Sometimes GM will "Goodwill" full or partial cost of repairs to keep a happy customer, esp if you bought it new from said dealer. 
3) Find a used engine and swap the whole thing.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

jblackburn said:


> Sometimes GM will "Goodwill" full or partial cost of repairs to keep a happy customer, esp if you bought it new from said dealer.


They're a second owner. GM will tell them to get bent. Once again, this is something that should have at least been a recall for new ECU software (to reduce the LSPI that causes cracked pistons), but GM was cheap and doesn't care about customers. Especially second-hand customers.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> They're a second owner. GM will tell them to get bent. Once again, this is something that should have at least been a recall for new ECU software (to reduce the LSPI that causes cracked pistons), but GM was cheap and doesn't care about customers. Especially second-hand customers.


I bet ya they won't and will, at the very least, partially cover it.


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## 93bandit (Mar 2, 2020)

Thebigzeus said:


> I bet ya they won't and will, at the very least, partially cover it.


Probably not without a fight.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

93bandit said:


> Probably not without a fight.


Of course not, everything depends on how much effort one wants to put in. If you go easy, they will just say F off.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

They're only liable for up to 36k. Correct?


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## 93bandit (Mar 2, 2020)

Powertrain is 60k


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

JunkieXL said:


> I saw a guy on here about a year or so back who had piston 1 blow on his '17 and he like me ran 93 exclusively and a top tier synthetic. Lost the cyl at 8k if memory serves. Saw another post around the same time a woman lost her #1 piston at only 3k miles she though was on 87 and DEXROS dealer oil.
> 
> I tried to find that post as I commented on it, but none of my old posts/comments are showing up. Not sure if things were deleted when the site was updated?
> 
> ...


I have no problems getting parts for my 1995 Ford Escort or 1999 Oldsmobile.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Booger said:


> I have no problems getting parts for my 1995 Ford Escort or 1999 Oldsmobile.


No kidding. There are already Cruze engines in and/or headed to salvage yards due to wrecks and other issues. If you need a piston and couldn't buy one new, single or sets of pistons can be had from a salvage yard.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Pistons are approximately $30, one cylinder's worth of rings is approximately $30, a connecting rod closer to $40 (internet pricing). At this point, parts not only are readily available, they're pretty cheap. But the supply of wrecks far exceeds the supply of out of warranty blown engines, so the junkyard engines are cheap enough to make it hard to justify rebuilding with new parts.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

I've seen complete (turbo, manifold, injectors, hp pump, manifold) for as low as $650


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Taxman said:


> Pistons are approximately $30, one cylinder's worth of rings is approximately $30, a connecting rod closer to $40 (internet pricing). At this point, parts not only are readily available, they're pretty cheap. But the supply of wrecks far exceeds the supply of out of warranty blown engines, so the junkyard engines are cheap enough to make it hard to justify rebuilding with new parts.


I threw the junkyard engines out there as an example. If it were me, there is basically zero reason to use anything other than new parts because there are "old" pistons and "new" pistons, and if I had an affected engine I would want the newer updated pistons to avoid future problems.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> I've seen complete (turbo, manifold, injectors, hp pump, manifold) for as low as $650


Yep. At that point it becomes a balance of how much labor would cost to rebuild the engine with new pistons (you'd want to replace all 4 with the new, updated design as a preventative measure) vs. how much it would cost to install a used engine. If the used engine comes with the new, updated piston design you can factor that in as a benefit.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Yep. At that point it becomes a balance of how much labor would cost to rebuild the engine with new pistons (you'd want to replace all 4 with the new, updated design as a preventative measure) vs. how much it would cost to install a used engine. If the used engine comes with the new, updated piston design you can factor that in as a benefit.


2018 engines don't cost much more than 2016-2017.
I can't find a complete 2019 engine for under $1k though. 
If a 5000 mile 2018 is cheaper than a 25,000 mile 2019, I'll take the 2018 every time. 
AFAIK there's no difference between 2018 and 2019.


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## JunkieXL (Nov 24, 2017)

HBCRUZE2017 said:


> ive ran 87 and 91 before not tuned and not really seen a big difference in mpg power maybe? but nothing huge...its a cruze again not a racecar


Octane doesn't add power, nor will it make a car faster. All octane is, is the measurement at which the fuel is resistant to detonation. This is especially true with small turbocharged engines like the 1.4L turbocharged LE2 in the 2nd gen Cruzes, which like all small T/C engines are particularly prone to pre-detonation, at which point running higher-rated octane fuel, mitigates this much more than 87 octane. Also if you look at a live mapping, there is a lot of red, where the ecu has to retard timings to prevent knocking with the LE2 on 87, some red with 89/91, and all green with 93.

Of course, Chevy will market the car (Cruze) to run on 87. It's an Economy car lol. Be hard-pressed to sell an "economy' car that requires 91/93.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

JunkieXL said:


> Octane doesn't add power, nor will it make a car faster. All octane is, is the measurement at which the fuel is resistant to detonation. This is especially true with small turbocharged engines like the 1.4L turbocharged LE2 in the 2nd gen Cruzes, which like all small T/C engines are particularly prone to pre-detonation, at which point running higher-rated octane fuel, mitigates this much more than 87 octane. Also if you look at a live mapping, there is a lot of red, where the ecu has to retard timings to prevent knocking with the LE2 on 87, some red with 89/91, and all green with 93.
> 
> Of course, Chevy will market the car (Cruze) to run on 87. It's an Economy car lol. Be hard-pressed to sell an "economy' car that requires 91/93.


It doesn’t add power, but it can cost you power. If it’s retarding the timing you’re losing power, so does the higher octane gain you power? I mean, I think it’s a valid argument if it prevents detonation.


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

Taxman said:


> AFAIK there's no difference between 2018 and 2019.



I thought that the 2019's didn't have the piston problems??
Either that, or they are too new to have the problem.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

All vehicles have recommended 87 since the beginning of time.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Booger said:


> I thought that the 2019's didn't have the piston problems??
> Either that, or they are too new to have the problem.


I've heard of 2018s breaking pistons, but all 2018 and 2019 have the stronger pistons in them. 
I don't know how many software versions are out there, but if yours fails under warranty you get the newest pistons and the newest software flash.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> All vehicles have recommended 87 since the beginning of time.


The RPO code recommends 91 octane.


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

Taxman said:


> I've heard of 2018s breaking pistons, but all 2018 and 2019 have the stronger pistons in them.
> I don't know how many software versions are out there, but if yours fails under warranty you get the newest pistons and the newest software flash.


I thought that only some 2018's and all 2019's has the improved pistons. I don't have a source for that though.


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

Barry Allen said:


> The RPO code recommends 91 octane.


What does RPO mean?

I was thinking that with the turbo and direct injection, and assuming the appropriate cooling on the turbo, all you needed was synthetic oil that is changed often enough (as in 5000 miles max).


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Booger said:


> I thought that only some 2018's and all 2019's has the improved pistons. I don't have a source for that though.


I was going by posts by @Ma v e n , like this one which implies my June 2017 RS should be good:








2018 Piston/motor problems?


Did the pistons in the 2018 cruze motor get updated? I haven't heard of any problems that the 16.5 and 17 in the 18.




www.cruzetalk.com


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

I was thinking more along the lines of something more specific from GM, like a TSB, or something else indicating when the revised pistons were put in production. 

That and I have to wonder if driving style had something to do with this. I'm thinking that it's probably more likely to happen if you push it hard, etc.


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

snowwy66 said:


> They're only liable for up to 36k. Correct?


That's what makes CPO cars vastly superior. Check out the warranty on GM and Ford CPO vehicles.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Booger said:


> What does RPO mean?


RPO stands for "Regular Production Option," lots of 3-character codes that denote every feature or option built on GM vehicles: Regular Production Option - Wikipedia

The owner's manual of Cruze vehicles lists 87 octane for all gasoline engines, even if turbocharged, but the turbocharged models have a RPO code of KRD: "FUEL RATING OCTANE NO. 91"

Make what you want of it: GM RPO codes recommend premium unleaded for the turbocharged engines Cruze vehicles.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Booger said:


> I'm thinking that it's probably more likely to happen if you push it hard, etc.


It's actually more likely to happen in situations where you are loafing it, or at least when the ECU is doing that.

LSPI is at low engine speeds. It's under conditions where there is a high amount of boost going into the engine but the crankshaft is operating at low revolutions. This is the kind of engine programming where auto manufacturers try to get engines to "lug" and stay low in their operating range for fuel economy purposes. They want a turbo engine that provides more torque to lug down low and enable more sedate driving. They'll program transmissions to select the highest possible gear for low engine speeds.

Thus, you get situations where you might be going up a hill and the engine is lugging along and using the torque to move the vehicle. Those are situations where LSPI happens.

If you use the manual shifting capability of the transmission to grab a lower gear, you can rev the engine higher and get it to run a richer mixture for more power. You burn a little bit more fuel, but you easily reduce the chances of LSPI causing problems.


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## Doug225 (Jul 16, 2018)

I always drive in L5 except on the interstates doing over 60mph. Engine never "lugs"and seems to have more power.
Should this help?


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

Is there at least a revised part number for this?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

The parts list was posted somewhere already. It's not as though there are good and bad pistons listed in the catalog  The pistons should be 12705612 or whatever the newest number is if it's changed. LOL (that number is for a single piston "kit", which is a piston, wrist pin, and pin clips.)


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

It might be interesting to see the part number history on this. 

Your part number gives me a decent price.

List Price: $67.14
You Save: $25.62 (38.20% off)
Sale Price: $41.52


GMPartsDirect currently says:

SKU: 12669767
Other Names: Piston, Piston Kit
 Description:
REPLACED BY PART NUMBER 12696409




For 12696409 it says


List Price: $242.11
You Save: $92.38 (38.20% off)
Sale Price: $149.73



And for the Malibu: $77.xx

SKU: 12674549
Other Names: Piston
 Description:
Malibu. Cruze. 1.5l. Incl.Piston Pin.
 Condition: New
 Notes: Includes: One Piston W/Pin.
Applications: 1.4L. 1.5L, 2.0L.
Replaces: 12669765, 12671062


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> It's not as though there are good and bad pistons listed in the catalog


If they updated the part due to defects, "bad" pistons shouldn't be available to purchase from the GM supply chain.


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

Any info on when the new piston part number numbers became available?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Booger said:


> Any info on when the new piston part number numbers became available?


WTF, Can I ask...Seriously.... Why does it matter? It's been more than 30 months since the bulletin regarding replacing pistons in the Cruze and referencing new pistons was released, and it's been even longer (almost 4 years!, since the 1.5 switched to new pistons)

What do you possibly hope to glean from the part number supersession history?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Taxman said:


> It might be interesting to see the part number history on this.
> 
> Your part number gives me a decent price.
> 
> ...


12705612 is current number for LE2 only, and is a piston and pin.

12669767 is discontinued and unavailable from GM it was not replaced by anything according to GM. I can't be bothered to verify what it was for

12696409 is a piston, pin and rod. Not sure it's exact application but it's not what is used to service the LE2 in the dealer.

The Malibu uses a slightly different reciprocating assembly than the Cruze. That part # is for the LFV and LYX 1.5 only.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> What do you possibly hope to glean from the part number supersession history?


A lesson on how quick GM is to react to a huge problem. 

Remember, this is the car company that made a "running change" to ignition key modules and didn't change the part number, or keep track of the cars it was installed in.

That fark up MURDERED PEOPLE and because GM didn't know which cars had new parts, they had to recall them all.


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

Ma v e n said:


> What do you possibly hope to glean from the part number supersession history?


If we know when the part number got superceded, then presumably we have some sort of idea when the production vehicles got the newer part number.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Malibu's got them beginning 1/26/17, and Cruzes were right in same time frame I no longer have exact date though.


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## Booger (Oct 18, 2020)

Ma v e n said:


> Malibu's got them beginning 1/26/17, and Cruzes were right in same time frame I no longer have exact date though.


OK, so some (really most) 2017's and all 2018's and 2019's should have the improved pistons, correct?


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> A lesson on how quick GM is to react to a huge problem.
> 
> Remember, this is the car company that made a "running change" to ignition key modules and didn't change the part number, or keep track of the cars it was installed in.
> 
> That fark up MURDERED PEOPLE and because GM didn't know which cars had new parts, they had to recall them all.


I see what you're saying, but again...no value to the average person. Actuarial scientists, logistic experts...maybe 
Additionally to compare this to that issue is a stretch


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Booger said:


> OK, so some (really most) 2017's and all 2018's and 2019's should have the improved pistons, correct?


Yes as far as I know, and 8s fairly common knowledge around here I thought, 2018 and 19 have new pistons. And Some 17s do also.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Guess mine missed the boat by 5 months.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

I got an ambulance chasing letter from a Lemon Law law firm today. 
Has your 2016 Cruze suffered from any defect we can sue for?

I might just give them a call, considering my 2016 hasn't been repaired yet.
At this point, $1000 for a used engine is better than nothing.


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## JunkieXL (Nov 24, 2017)

Booger said:


> I thought that only some 2018's and all 2019's has the improved pistons. I don't have a source for that though.


They do. Actually, per Chevy, they put them into production starting on the 2017 models depending on where in the production cycle it was built, all 2017 models built the last quarter of the production cycle have them and ALL 2018/2019's have them. Though from what I've seen thus far, the only ones really having piston issues with their 2018/2019's were ones that were modified for more power. I'm sure there are a few one-offs here and there.

I just traded in my 2017 LT with 33k miles. Didn't have a single issue, well with the engine anyway lol and mine didn't have the upgraded pistons (was built towards the beginning of the production cycle as noted on door placard). Just don't drive it like a moron. Use a GroupIV (like Amsoil Signature Series) oil and 93 octane and you should be fine.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Pennzoil and 91. Just passed 37k.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

And yet. People are getting over 100k miles on em.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Am I missing something?


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Ma v e n said:


> Am I missing something?


Yeah, some guy spam complaining cause of his cracked pistons. Wish mods would/could put a note in a post when they delete stuff so it doesn’t look like we’re talking to ourselves.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Thebigzeus said:


> Yeah, some guy spam complaining cause of his cracked pistons. Wish mods would/could put a note in a post when they delete stuff so it doesn’t look like we’re talking to ourselves.


We do have the option to, but it looks like the spam cleaner tool I used to clean them all up in one shot just nukes all of them from existence for regular members.


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## 6Speed2016LT (Jun 14, 2016)

I think JBlackburn has summed this topic up pretty good in the past.. Use the highest octane fuel you can get....(for me its 94 here in Ontario...its available at almost every Petro Canada station... And use a good Oil like Amsoil. I am just using there OE line of oil, but it still showed no LSPI events in their testing.......I have no reason to believe my April build 2016 Gen 2 will suffer from this cracked piston issue.

Jason


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