# I live in a wonderful Diesel fuel price island



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)




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## CrushTD (Oct 4, 2020)

I'm jealous. Prices are going up by the day here. It also seems like the price on the sign isn't the price at the pump, which is frustrating!


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Definitely not that cheap on the west.


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## Johnny B (Jun 4, 2019)

Even the regular gas is pretty well priced. Arrg. I just realized I've been trained to well, anything over about 2 bucks a gallon is gouging.


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## Mark cruze diesel (Oct 3, 2019)

Our prices go up daily. I paid $4.28 for diesel yesterday


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

It's a good thing diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

JLL said:


> It's a good thing diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines.


And the first gens have a relatively large tank with healthy range. Might cost more to fill up due to the larger tank - but you can go further between fillups.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

Where is this? Is the $4.19 regular gas? That's pretty weird to have diesel that much cheaper than the gas. Here regular is $4/gal and diesel is ~$4.40. Crazy, but still not the highest I've paid ... in 2008 I had a few tanks just under $5 ... I'm guessing we will hit that unfortunately. At least the Cruze gets about double the economy of the cars I was dailying in 2008, which aren't that bad either. My two gas Mercedes that take Premium and get 17 mpg on the other hand, may not see as much action in the near future.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

BodhiBenz1987 said:


> Where is this? Is the $4.19 regular gas? That's pretty weird to have diesel that much cheaper than the gas. Here regular is $4/gal and diesel is ~$4.40. Crazy, but still not the highest I've paid ... in 2008 I had a few tanks just under $5 ... I'm guessing we will hit that unfortunately. At least the Cruze gets about double the economy of the cars I was dailying in 2008, which aren't that bad either. My two gas Mercedes that take Premium and get 17 mpg on the other hand, may not see as much action in the near future.


My Volt makes it a real non-issue. Even if I do have to fill up more than once a year, my tank is only 8.9 gallons.


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

MP81 said:


> My Volt makes it a real non-issue. Even if I do have to fill up more than once a year, my tank is only 8.9 gallons.


if I'm honest its pretty much a non-issue for me with the cars and lifestyle I have these days (work from home, drive for fun and a few errands). Aside from being cheap and OCD. Even a substantial fuel price doesn't hit me that much directly. But I'm concerned about the effect on many others and indirect effect on us all. Like I said, it's not the worst I've seen, but these are weird times. If it gets too rough on me personally, I guess I'll start looking for a Renault Lectric Leopard. 😂


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

As a full and complete explanation, this station has Diesel fuel priced as a loss leader so they can have video poker machines in the mini-casino.

Illinois allows video gambling in two ways:
1. If your establishment has a liquor license to serve poured drinks. The CEO of Huck's appeared before the city council (the mayor is the liquor commissioner) and stated they wanted the video gaming, and the only way they wanted to do it was to have gas station clerks serve beer and wine to people who wanted a drink while gaming. The mayor correctly said that idea was stupid and denied the license.
2. If you are a "truck stop," and that is defined in state law as any fuel station that sells more than 20,000 gallons of Diesel fuel in a month.

So, to keep their status as a "truck stop" this fuel station aggressively prices their Diesel to be a loss leader. The dollars flow out of the pump into my tank... and are more than made up by the many dollars that come in through the poor people who play the video slots.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

CrushTD said:


> I'm jealous. Prices are going up by the day here. It also seems like the price on the sign isn't the price at the pump, which is frustrating!


On the occasions that happens (in my state), they have to honor the lowest posted price. If the sign is lower, they have to give you that at the pump. If the pump is lower, just fill up with that price and ignore the sign.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

JLL said:


> It's a good thing diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines.


Uh, about that...

If Mazda had brought their Skyactiv-X engine to the USA in time, I would have bought that.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Uh, about that...
> 
> If Mazda had brought their Skyactiv-X engine to the USA in time, I would have bought that.


It sounds like you don't like your Cruze very much


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

JLL said:


> It sounds like you don't like your Cruze very much


After about $8,000 in warranty repairs, would you?


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> After about $8,000 in warranty repairs, would you?


After $8,000 in *warranty repairs*, absolutely!
Why complain about FREE?


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

JLL said:


> It sounds like you don't like your Cruze very much


So, in about fall of 2008 I was mailed whatever is the magazine sent to Subaru owners. "Subaru Drive" is the title, I think. At the time I was an owner of a 1991 Legacy with the EJ22T engine paired with the 5-speed manual transmission (FWD, not AWD). In that issue that I still possess to this day was a quick one-page fluff piece about the new Subaru Diesel engine that was billed as coming to the USA "soon," and likely with a manual transmission. For about a decade I kept asking my local Subaru dealership when the Diesel engine was arriving and it was constantly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ as an answer. It was vaporware. It never arrived.

Along the same timeframe, we were repeatedly told by Mazda that a Mazda 6 was "coming soon" and with a 6-speed manual transmission. I kept asking them when it was coming. The answer was always ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and we saw that the engine finally, belatedly arrived as a single-year sale of 2019 CX-5 SUVs with about 1,000 sold before it was discontinued in the USA.

I stayed away from VW because the reliability of those cars was awful. Maybe by about 2015 they had things sorted out, but that's right when Dieselgate broke into the news and when I was finally ready to buy a Passat with the TDI engine and 6-speed manual transmission, they were unobtanium. They could not be sold.

So, Chevy appeared as the savior that could deliver a Diesel engine that appeared to not be total garbage. I couldn't get it in a Malibu, a slightly larger car that would have been my preferred choice. I had to get a Cruze, and I fell for the sucker bet of the manual transmission being more reliable than the automatic due to about 60+ years of experience with the motoring public. Except I fell into the twilight zone of the 3 years of production where GM built defective transmissions, refuses to acknowledge it with a recall, and leaves customers on the hook with an unreliable product that they likely know is a problem but refuse to take responsibility for it.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

JLL said:


> Why complain about FREE?


It only costs you your sanity, and aggravation of not having a car when it's in the shop.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

And for the record, I'd still own and drive the 1991 Legacy to this day if rust hadn't entirely destroyed the underbody. It was at 430,000 miles and still going strong on the day I had to drive it to the junkyard (it was about as emotional as putting down a favorite pet). When starting it up for the last ride I realized that this car had been in my family from my parents, to my sister, to me, and we all took great care of it. None of us had abused the car. 

On that last ride it was the day I decided "SCREW IT" and went to let some speed out of this ride. I spent a solid 45 minutes driving around town, risking tickets and arrest, pretending that I was a world rally champion. I redlined the absolute shiat out of that car and dumped the clutch to do smokey burnouts at every stoplight. I pulled handbrake turns and went around some corners drifting all 4 wheels. I went over that one railroad crossing in town that I always wanted to jump at speed, and I swear to God that I got air under all 4 wheels and was surprised the car didn't break part of the suspension or body when it landed. When I arrived at the salvage yard to hand the keys over the engine was still idling smooth as fresh churned butter and ready for another couple hundred thousand miles. The heart was willing, but the body gave up around it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> Uh, about that...
> 
> If Mazda had brought their Skyactiv-X engine to the USA in time, I would have bought that.


It was an interesting concept...Their Diesel did make it here, and boy it was an absolute turd.


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## JLL (Sep 12, 2017)

MP81 said:


> It was an interesting concept...Their Diesel did make it here, and boy it was an absolute turd.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> It was an interesting concept...Their Diesel did make it here, and boy it was an absolute turd.


Mazda engineers were stealthily bamboozled by VW engineers. Mazda spent years trying to develop a Diesel engine that could meet emissions limits without urea injection because "VW was able to do it, so why can't we?" Years and millions of dollars were spent on trying to match what VW did and then Dieselgate broke open to reveal what VW accomplished was all lies. Mazda engineers had spent years and millions in development costs promising they could deliver, and I'm sure the meeting after Dieselgate made the news had deafening silence. Some of them probably committed sudoku in shame.

Anyways, that engine isn't a bad idea. It follows the same modern Diesel engine practice of lowering compression and raising boost pressure. 1980s Diesel engines that were naturally aspirated had compression ratios of 21:1 or higher. When turbochargers were first added, it was maybe 19:1 and boost pressures barely made it to double digits. The GM Optimizer™ engine still in production can be had in a marine version of 18:1 because those engines run at full-throttle for hours and with turbocharging that's what it takes to be reliable.

The engine in my Cruze is 16:1 compression and boost peaks at 27 psi?

The idea with that Mazda engine is to have 14:1 compression for low NOx production and then you don't have to clean up as much with after-treatment. Cold starts are easily solved with glow plugs and then stable combustion during the first few minutes of cold running is solved with variable valve timing - cam timing is adjusted to allow some of that hot exhaust gas to be sucked right back into the cylinder with the exhaust valve left open for part of the intake stroke. That's a pretty genius idea.

Anyways, the American version of that engine is crippled with emissions regulations. Check out how it compares to the Australian version:


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

When I took that photo the Circle K across the street was $3.99 ($1 more expensive). Today the Huck's is at $3.49 and the Circle K was $4.49.

Leaving my parents' town the price of Diesel jumped from $3.99 one day to $4.69 the next afternoon to $4.99 this morning when I was leaving.


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## Eh-moore (Oct 21, 2021)

Geez, I wish it was even $4.99 right now. Here in Manitoba I just paid 179.9 ¢/L ($5.37). Still better than Vancouver. Some gasbars there are up to 216.9 ¢/L ($6.44)


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Eh-moore said:


> Geez, I wish it was even $4.99 right now. Here in Manitoba I just paid 179.9 ¢/L ($5.37). Still better than Vancouver. Some gasbars there are up to 216.9 ¢/L ($6.44)


That's in real dollars, not Loonies. Better adjust that $4.99US to about $6.99CAN for the real price.


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## Eh-moore (Oct 21, 2021)

My numbers currency and volume converted. US Gas Price to CAD Converter, Your Gas Savings Calculator


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

JLL said:


> Is that a political comment? 🤔


A stupid one at that. Gas prices are going up world wide.

We have a fuel station in the area and the owners update their own gas buddy prices and lie about how much it cost. They are claiming to have $4.15 diesel right now but everyone else is around $4.59 to $4.79. I don't know why but only on diesel they update their own prices and put fake prices. They've been doing it for years.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

BDCCruze said:


> We have a fuel station in the area and the owners update their own gas buddy prices and lie about how much it cost. They are claiming to have $4.15 diesel right now but everyone else is around $4.59 to $4.79. I don't know why but only on diesel they update their own prices and put fake prices. They've been doing it for years.


Can you report that bullshit?

Then again, I'm not sure how they could mitigate it on the site.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BDCCruze said:


> I don't know why


I don’t drive any distance to save $1 per tank. I’ll look at where is cheap and run my errands to fill up there if I can do so.

Maybe the catfishing is to get people at the pump and then they fill up anyway? If they see the low price is wrong but the pump price is the same as everyone else, why drive to go pay the same? Might as well fill up there so they catfished you.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

BDCCruze said:


> We have a fuel station in the area and the owners update their own gas buddy prices and lie about how much it cost. They are claiming to have $4.15 diesel right now but everyone else is around $4.59 to $4.79. I don't know why but only on diesel they update their own prices and put fake prices. They've been doing it for years.


How about signing up for your own gas buddy account and start messing with them? Start inputting the correct prices, or even inputting higher prices. Start screwing with their data inputs.


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## 6speedTi (May 18, 2018)

My local BJ's gas was also posting a lower price. It was the same poster updating daily. I would fuel up and update the price and then the same person would update again and lower the price back. Anyone can update. I don't have an account. Gas Buddy was a good way to check out prices based on the honor system. Too bad people these days look to play games.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

I did report this station via GasBuddy support the other day. I doubt anything will change but it's all I can ethically do. I'm not going to mess with prices thus further contributing to what I already dislike about that site.


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## hwertz (Dec 21, 2021)

Might be able to report them to a state agency. State department of commerce? Not sure, whatever agencies regulate gas stations. They are after all committing fraud.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

hwertz said:


> Might be able to report them to a state agency. State department of commerce? Not sure, whatever agencies regulate gas stations. They are after all committing fraud.


As long as the price posted at the pump matches the sign, it's not fraud of any kind.

Most states require the station to honor the price on any large sign. If that's lower than the pump due to a mistake, they generally have to honor it as the "advertised price." This is less of an issue with electronic signs, because they can flip the sign at the same time they are changing the price at the pump.


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## hwertz (Dec 21, 2021)

Barry Allen said:


> As long as the price posted at the pump matches the sign, it's not fraud of any kind.
> 
> Most states require the station to honor the price on any large sign. If that's lower than the pump due to a mistake, they generally have to honor it as the "advertised price." This is less of an issue with electronic signs, because they can flip the sign at the same time they are changing the price at the pump.


I meant the listing false prices on GasBuddy. That is definitely fraud, you're falsely claiming your prices are lower than they really are to draw in customers. I do have my doubts that the state agencies would do anything about this though either way. Hopefully reporting the account(s) to GasBuddy, GasBuddy will revoke their accounts.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

hwertz said:


> I meant the listing false prices on GasBuddy. That is definitely fraud, you're falsely claiming your prices are lower than they really are to draw in customers.


That's basically impossible to make a case that it's "fraud." The sign at the station and the price at the pump is all that matters.

OK, so someone posts a wrong price on GasBuddy. What does that mean? Nothing, because GasBuddy isn't the sign at the station or at the pump. GasBuddy is only providing prices as a crowd-sourced service, and they're not responsible for what users with accounts post. Someone posts a wrong price? Was it a fat-finger error or was it intentional? Hard to prove, and even if you did track them down and find they were maliciously posting something it just doesn't matter because only the sign at the station and the pump price matters.


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## hwertz (Dec 21, 2021)

Barry Allen said:


> Hard to prove, and even if you did track them down and find they were maliciously posting something it just doesn't matter because only the sign at the station and the pump price matters.


I mean, by the same logic a gas station could put out ads claiming a 1 cent a gallon gas sale (well, OK, $2 a gallon), have gas for $6.99 a gallon, and they're in the clear as long as the pump and sign say $6.99. Unfortunately I do think you might be right, they can probably get away with doing whatever as long as the sign and pump have the accurate price.


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## BDCCruze (Jul 12, 2017)

Diesel just jumped from $4.89 to $5.89 in my area (rust belt).


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## Drake2014LT (Oct 2, 2021)

MP81 said:


> My Volt makes it a real non-issue. Even if I do have to fill up more than once a year, my tank is only 8.9 gallons.


I miss my volt 2014 white. And now their very pricey.


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