# Winter prep



## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

It's still early, but I'm wanting to do some winter prep as I live in the Midwest and we can have cold overnight weather as early as September. What do people here recommend?

I plan on using PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost for the anti-gel additives and I frequent a reputable fuel retailer that specs about 45-47 cetane index.

I know the fuel filter on these cars is heated so it shouldn't be any problems to avoid gelling up the filter. Does anyone here have a maintenance diagram for these cars? I'd be interested in seeing if they have a diesel fuel spill return system where excess fuel used to lubricate/cool the high-pressure pump and injectors is returned to the fuel tank. My knowledge is that all diesel engines have an arrangement like this so that long distance trips make it hard to have fuel in the tank gelling because of a constant spill return of warmed fuel from the engine. Does the newest Cruze have a similar layout?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I live near Indy, we can get some below zero temps, I have gone thru winters with this car, I add nothing to the fuel and gm doesn’t recommend any additives. I have had zero issues with fuel problems, I buy at only two providers and both sell a lot of fuel.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Fuel is drawn up from the tank, pressurizes the fuel rail. Engine takes a squirt. The rest is returned to the tank. Been that way since the beginning of time. Doesn't matter if it's gas or diesel. Has nothing to do with the pump. 

Heated Fuel filters???? Wouldn't that kill the battery over night? Semi's don't have heated fuel filters. 

The fuel in your state is probably formulated for the temps. Otherwise, EVERY diesel vehicle in your state would be stranded. Cars and semis. And that probably wouldn't go over very well with the refineries.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

snowwy66 said:


> Fuel is drawn up from the tank, pressurizes the fuel rail. Engine takes a squirt. The rest is returned to the tank. Been that way since the beginning of time. Doesn't matter if it's gas or diesel. Has nothing to do with the pump.
> 
> Heated Fuel filters???? Wouldn't that kill the battery over night? Semi's don't have heated fuel filters.
> 
> The fuel in your state is probably formulated for the temps. Otherwise, EVERY diesel vehicle in your state would be stranded. Cars and semis. And that probably wouldn't go over very well with the refineries.


It doesn't stay heated, but it heats up when you turn the key on.

We've only had one time where the car wouldn't start due to gelled diesel - it was 16 below zero (before the large windchill), and the car was only able to start once my (former) sister-in-law was able to come drive us to Meijer to get some Diesel-911 when it warmed up...to 4 above zero, that afternoon. 

Your local station should provide a "winter" diesel blend with more Cetane, which should be all you need. 

If you have a garage, that'll be more than plenty.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

I've never used any winter additives in the Cruze or the Jetta TDI I had before. The Cruze doesn't sit outside much, but the Jetta did. Both have started with no problems on below-zero mornings. They turn over a little slower and they clatter and rattle more in cold weather, but no issues with gelling or driveability.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Every car truck whatever these days will have heated fuel filters. They usually aren't electric. Some will have coolant going to the filter, others will just have the return line wrap around inside. If the engine starts then you are good to go. It will not gel up. This isn't 2002.

Now if it doesn't start, I reccomened not using diesel 911 as that lets water in the pumps and injectors. Ideally just let it sit in a warm spot, or pre treat the fuel.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Snipesy said:


> Ideally just let it sit in a warm spot


Hard to let it do that when it was 16 below outside, and the car was unable to move from the driveway...

The 911 never seemed to cause any issue, as that was years ago now.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> Fuel is drawn up from the tank, pressurizes the fuel rail. Engine takes a squirt. The rest is returned to the tank. Been that way since the beginning of time. Doesn't matter if it's gas or diesel. Has nothing to do with the pump.


Most modern gasoline fuel injection is returnless. Back in the 1990s Chrysler had returnless fuel injection, including on every Neon sold.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> We've only had one time where the car wouldn't start due to gelled diesel - it was 16 below zero (before the large windchill), and the car was only able to start once my (former) sister-in-law was able to come drive us to Meijer to get some Diesel-911 when it warmed up...to 4 above zero, that afternoon.
> 
> Your local station should provide a "winter" diesel blend with more Cetane, which should be all you need.
> 
> If you have a garage, that'll be more than plenty.


The coldest temperatures here in Central Illinois are in the -20s. I've seen -25 as an adult and when I was a child the coldest was -36. There are some mornings where I leave for work at 4am, so basically at the absolute coldest point of the night.

I don't have a garage but I am contemplating asking the landlord if I can use an extension cord from a basement outlet to power the oil pan heater that's an option. For those nights below zero it just might help make the starts easier in the morning.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Mechanics stock up on 911 in the winter. It's their #1 tool for gelled semis.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Snipesy said:


> Every car truck whatever these days will have heated fuel filters. They usually aren't electric. Some will have coolant going to the filter, others will just have the return line wrap around inside. If the engine starts then you are good to go. It will not gel up. This isn't 2002.


I believe the Cruze diesels use a PTC rubber heating element: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTC_rubber

It's a self-regulating and self-limiting heater. I don't know what temperature the set point is for the fuel filter but probably about 40F is enough to keep fuel flowing through the filter above the gel point. Then, once the fuel reaches the fuel rail and injectors, engine heat there is keeping it liquid and flowing.


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Used Stanadyne all last winter and never had any gelling issues. 

Live in Northern KY and saw alot of single digits and some below 0 with wind chill. The engine would take longer before it started cranking (glow plug light would come on) but nothing else.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> I believe the Cruze diesels use a PTC rubber heating element: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTC_rubber
> 
> It's a self-regulating and self-limiting heater. I don't know what temperature the set point is for the fuel filter but probably about 40F is enough to keep fuel flowing through the filter above the gel point. Then, once the fuel reaches the fuel rail and injectors, engine heat there is keeping it liquid and flowing.


I know the Gen 1s have something like that. I haven't a clue what the Gen 2 uses.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Snipesy said:


> I know the Gen 1s have something like that. I haven't a clue what the Gen 2 uses.


It appears to be the same as Gen 1, just on other side of the car. It appears to be the same housing, and ID Parts lists the same filter for Gen 1 and Gen 2 diesels. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> snowwy66 said:
> 
> 
> > Fuel is drawn up from the tank, pressurizes the fuel rail. Engine takes a squirt. The rest is returned to the tank. Been that way since the beginning of time. Doesn't matter if it's gas or diesel. Has nothing to do with the pump.
> ...


You're right. 1998 was the year Chrysler went all models.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

One other option depending upon where you live, is to just stay home if it’s -20 outside. The OP iS in central IL which is probably similiar to Indy, if I don’t have to travel when it’s that cold outside, I prefer to stay at home. Just because it starts and you can travel at -25 doesn’t mean it’s really safe to do so. My car is in a garage so my car will start but after it sits outside at work I could in theory have an issue.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

HondaTech2016 said:


> Live in Northern KY and saw alot of single digits and some below 0 with wind chill. The engine would take longer before it started cranking (glow plug light would come on) but nothing else.


I'm in eastern KY and saw the same temps. I almost never see the glow plug light except on those cold mornings. There were some mornings that I never saw the temp gauge reach normal operating temperature. Other than stuff like that though, no big deal.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Use a high volume diesel station - they'll switch their tanks to winter fuel quicker than a low volume station. I'd get the anti-gel for when you're not going to be driving much or there's a predicted cold snap and you have a full tank, but I wouldn't put it in unless needed.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

If you fill up in Atlanta on your way to Detroit, just take a few minutes to fill it again in Michigan before you park it for the night. Otherwise, I doubt fuel gelling is an issue these days.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

Fuel gelling is still an issue. 

If you fuel in Texas and end up in the Dakota's. It's a problem without 911 in the tanks.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> One other option depending upon where you live, is to just stay home if it’s -20 outside.


My work doesn't consider "It's cold" as a valid excuse for not showing up.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Taxman said:


> If you fill up in Atlanta on your way to Detroit, just take a few minutes to fill it again in Michigan before you park it for the night. Otherwise, I doubt fuel gelling is an issue these days.


After filling you have to drive a while to make sure the winterized fuel makes it through the filter and to the injectors before shutdown.

This is in the owners manual, relating to storage with biodiesel fuel: _*"Owners who use very little fuel, or who have vehicles stored for extended periods of time, should avoid the use of biodiesel blended fuels above 5% by volume. When vehicles are stored for longer than one month, they should be run out of biodiesel to below one-quarter tank, refueled with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, and driven at least 32 km (20 ml) before storage."*_

This leads me to believe 20 miles is a good length of driving to make sure the fuel filter and fuel system is thoroughly purged of fuel.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> My work doesn't consider "It's cold" as a valid excuse for not showing up.


Most don't, no. But I agree with @*IndyDiesel*, they should. I have roughly a 1/4 mile walk into work, and there always seems to be a nice hefty windchill when it is that cold...can get rather dangerous real quick...

My Cavalier simply wouldn't start if it was 0 degrees F or below. 1 degree? It would start. The second it hit 0, though, that was it. It's almost like the car was making a statement about it being too cold.

It was once cold enough out where my IROC's speedo cable started disconnecting from the speedometer.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

MP81 said:


> Most don't, no. But I agree with @*IndyDiesel*, they should.


I work a government public service job where they do not close except in the most extreme of weather, and just being cold is not extreme. It would take large amounts of snow to close my job and that has happened once in the prior decade (but it was my day off anyway).

The wind chill is on you to dress appropriately for the weather. I've got cold weather gear for where I live.

It's been -25 and I've gone to work. I was driving a 1993 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and it started right up fine and drove to work.

I know exactly what you're talking about with the speedometer issues. I've had some Dodge vehicles where the speedometer would give lots of gear whine and groaning and never read the correct speed when it was unbelievably cold out, until it warmed up the interior of the vehicle to be above zero.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> MP81 said:
> 
> 
> > Most don't, no. But I agree with @*IndyDiesel*, they should.
> ...


Hello fellow .gov employee. Did you opt-out of your union membership after the Janus Supreme Court decision? I did a couple days ago and never felt better.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Hello fellow .gov employee. Did you opt-out of your union membership after the Janus Supreme Court decision? I did a couple days ago and never felt better.


No, I'm the union steward at my job. For what I do a union is very important.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> I buy at only two providers and both sell a lot of fuel.


Are either/both of those retailers Country Mark?

https://www.countrymark.com/countrymark/


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> Are either/both of those retailers Country Mark?
> 
> https://www.countrymark.com/countrymark/


No, I don’t buy there, their price is always higher, I buy at Costco and a locally owned stationed called Rickers that has BP fuel. Never had a fuel related issue, hope it stays that way.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> No, I don’t buy there, their price is always higher


Years ago I read a link to Country Mark from TDIclub.com. They seem to be a really nice company: not a huge corporation, sources their oil from Illinois and Indiana wells, refines locally, provides premium diesel fuel with a 50 cetane index, etc. Looking at the specs of their fuel, I wish I had one local to me to buy from. They give the impression that they sell quality fuel that will never give any problems.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Barry Allen said:


> Years ago I read a link to Country Mark from TDIclub.com. They seem to be a really nice company: not a huge corporation, sources their oil from Illinois and Indiana wells, refines locally, provides premium diesel fuel with a 50 cetane index, etc. Looking at the specs of their fuel, I wish I had one local to me to buy from. They give the impression that they sell quality fuel that will never give any problems.


I think that story is correct but it’s 30 to 40 cents more a gallon, I have had zero issues with my fuel. I think I used their diesel a couple times. I buy no ethanol gasoline there for my mowers and chainsaws.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

IndyDiesel said:


> I think that story is correct but it’s 30 to 40 cents more a gallon


OK, yeah, that's a price point that I'm not comfortable paying. I've got local fuel sources selling a biodiesel blend where I'll pay 10¢ more a gallon but beyond that I'm not interested.


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## sparkola (Jun 9, 2014)

Buy a heated battery blanket Better than the oil pan heater in my opinion


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## KyleB (Mar 12, 2017)

I seem to be in the minority here, but I have had telling issues. While story here
https://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/418-gen2-diesel-general-discussion/220113-gelled-fuel-story.html
I now use Howe's from Dec-March (central IA). 911 works ok as a rescue, but I wouldn't want to use it regularly. 911 emulsifies any water present and that's bad for lubrosity. Howe's demulsifies water leaving it in the fuel filter housing where it belongs. Both will prevent wax crystals that form from coalescing and clogging the filter to a much lower temp.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

KyleB said:


> I seem to be in the minority here


I read that thread a while back. Iowa isn't a stranger to extreme cold winter temperatures so it appears you got a tank of marginal fuel. -10 isn't the worst winter temperatures people can face but it's also right about where the highest cloud point should be for winter diesel with the cold filter plugging point at about -20 or below.

In this age of modern diesel vehicles a lot of them have fuel filters that are a good measure of finer filtration above what older models used to have. I don't know what the spec is for the DMAX fuel filter that comes on the Cruze, but I've seen it described as a 5 micron filter. Some people advise that with a fuel filter 5 microns or smaller the cloud point of diesel fuel should be considered as the new CFPP.

My car is the first diesel passenger car I've owned and I'm not taking any chances. I'm keeping with a dose of Power Service white bottle in each tank so that I can be sure I have a ride to work on the coldest winter days.


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