# 17089 - Emission Recall - NOx Position 1 Sensor Replacement (CTD)



## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)




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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

So, without reading it all, is that a new version of the suspended recall?


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

MP81 said:


> So, without reading it all, is that a new version of the suspended recall?


On February 7, 2017 dealers were advised via Global Connect that Emission Recall 15594 was suspended until further notice and the status of all vehicles associated with this field action were changed to "closed" in IVH. 

As of today General Motors is releasing Emission Recall 17089 which supersedes and replaces Emission Recall 15594. All vehicles associated with this field action have been transferred to recall 17089. The total number of U.S. vehicles involved is approximately 12,540. 


General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Recall involving certain 2014 and 2015
model year Chevrolet Cruze model vehicles equipped with a 2.0L (RPO LUZ) diesel engine. On some
vehicles, depending on driving habits, soot may build up on the engine’s NOx position 1 sensor and / or
oxygen sensor, causing the vehicle Check Engine Indicator to illuminate.
An earlier correction for this condition (Voluntary Emission Recall 15594) may, under certain driving
conditions, inadvertently cause the vehicle Check Engine Indicator to illuminate.

*Correction* For vehicles that were not serviced under previous recall 15594, dealers are to replace the NOx position
1 sensor and reprogram the engine control module with a modified calibration, and initiate a Diesel
Particulate Filter cleaning cycle
For vehicles previously serviced under recall 15594, dealers are to reprogram the engine control module
with a modified calibration, and initiate a Diesel Particulate Filter cleaning cycle.
Confirm status of recall 15594 following the instructions in the Warranty Information section.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

Won't be doing 17089. Car is running perfect. Went through the 15594 debacle.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

Interesting. I'll give it a try. Both mine had the last recall without issues.. .may do them at different times to see a before and after comparison..

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

EricSmit said:


> On February 7, 2017 dealers were advised via Global Connect that Emission Recall 15594 was suspended until further notice and the status of all vehicles associated with this field action were changed to "closed" in IVH.
> 
> As of today General Motors is releasing Emission Recall 17089 which supersedes and replaces Emission Recall 15594. All vehicles associated with this field action have been transferred to recall 17089. The total number of U.S. vehicles involved is approximately 12,540.
> 
> ...


I never had the original recall (Emission Recall 15594) performed since there was not a problem then. Subsequently I recently had the emission CEL problem at about 58K miles, took the car to the dealer and the work they performed was as described in Recall 17089 but they did not classify it as a recall at the time the work was done and I had to pay out of pocket. Now I wonder if I can get reimbursed since the recall problem is now officially released and documented?? :sigh:

1500 miles and counting without a problem!:jump:


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

Thank you Eric, Cheers.
I have had the original recall and no re-calibration, guess I will have to make a call.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

thanks, but no thanks. fleece tune works just fine.:smile:


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

oilburner said:


> thanks, but no thanks. fleece tune works just fine.:smile:


I see that several of the posters replying are our friends to the north... Canada:wave:
I hear you guys have some really good diesel where as a lot of us, myself included, here in the States are stuck with B20 diesel+extraneous bilge sludge.

The recall seems to suggest that the NOX1 sensor is fouling which I offer the quality of the fuel might be aggravating the condition and leading to the eventual recall conditions (soot fouling the sensors)?? Some of us seem to be able to go further then others before the eventual, emission CEL, seems to happen. Compared to others I was able to go 59K miles before this problem reared its head where others have gone only 25K mile before the problem occurred. I suggest that by adding approved fuel additives to each fill up might extend the range before this becomes a problem. Others here in the States suggest that they are able to get better grade diesel then B20 fuel which may be another way of extending this eventual incident?? How about a blend of JP8 or Jet A-1, this should keep our fuel system clean, lubricated and free flow during the cold winter months.:smile:

I would like to think that the recall is not suggesting the original NOX1 sensor be replaced with the same sensor but is being replaced with a new and improved sensor which is less likely to be susceptible to soot fouling?? :smileystooges:


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I am about 9000 plus miles past having recall done in late dec 16. I didn't have issues prior or after recall. Only difference on my end is now my regen cycles are much longer, prolly average 850-950 miles between regens. Until I have a problem, no way am I having them reprogram. I am happy with things as they are. Current mileage is 31k


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

coming back from Lordstown yesterday, check eng light came on, an I found a code for nox sensor #2 cleared it an by the time I got home it was no longer there. was thinking this was the one under warranty but no such luck.........wait an see if it reoccurs. when I`m away from home I always worry I might get the dreaded mileage countdown. stupidest thing the EPA has ever come up with.


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## vwgtiglx (Jun 13, 2013)

I just had the 17089 Recall done today, maybe I'm the first guinea pig. I had the 15594 Recall done last November. It included a ECM program modification but no forced DPF cleaning cycle. My service writer said that was not included and was done last time in Nov. It took 2 hours including the car wash. The car seems peppier now by the "seat of the pants" dyno. We'll see what happens further down the road. Perhaps someone can start another Poll like last time as was suggested.
P.S. After calling GM customer service yesterday, I brought my car back to the dealer today to have the forced DPF regen done with their approval. Hopefully all will go well into the future.


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## Bear55 (May 24, 2017)

Hi all, I'm new to this forum, but I should have been tracking it for a long time now. My wife's car is the 2014 CTD and has had every issue with the check engine light and these sensor issues. This car has always run great, but it has run more miles with the check engine light on in the last 25,000 miles than it has with it off. It has been to the dealer multiple times and who has done an OK job, but the underlying problems just don't seem to get fixed. So tomorrow it goes in for this latest recall because in addition to the check engine light it has gone into the slow down mode for the DEF supposedly being empty when it is in fact full. 

When I made the service call this morning the dealer was also letting me know that the car is now out of normal warranty, but that this latest recall should be covered and hopefully take care of everything. Seriously this is getting old. We are quickly going into lemon territory. I really don't want to have to get into doing modifications myself, but may have to at some point. I can reset codes myself, but I worry that somewhere along the line a really serious code will come up and I will ignore it and override it.

But other than that this is a great little car.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Not touching this one. I had an EGR fail in early 2016 which was fixed under warranty. Did the 15594 in late 2016 and all **** broke loose with multiple trips with multiple sensors and the EGR again replaced (fortunately at no cost and minimal time due to Loaners). When they recalled the recall I got flashed back to normal and life has been good since for over 20K. Not Quite Yet


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## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

vwgtiglx said:


> I just had the 17089 Recall done today, maybe I'm the first guinea pig. I had the 15594 Recall done last November. It included a ECM program modification but no forced DPF cleaning cycle.
> 
> P.S. After calling GM customer service yesterday, I brought my car back to the dealer today to have the forced DPF regen done with their approval. Hopefully all will go well into the future.


Good since it clearly states in the updated recall to perform a regen and reset fuel trims after the new calibration.


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## MilTownSHO (Oct 9, 2013)

For what it's worth I had the original recall done and never had an issue (we did have two at work that had to be flashed back due to CE's though.)

Had the updated recall done Friday and just got back from a 1400+ mile road trip with no issues.


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## Bear55 (May 24, 2017)

Ok, we had the latest recall done a little over a week ago, they also put a new kit on for DEF pump of some sort. Did the regen, reprogrammed it and new NOX sensor. It is nearly impossible to understand their jargon in house terminology, but that is what the verbal description was. The car actually ran much better afterward and all was good for about a week and then the dreaded CEL was on again. Then yesterday morning it was off again. We have no faith that it will stay off so have decided to really start chewing up the food chain here. The car goes back to the dealer next Thursday. I have sent a message to GM Customer Care on their website and have not heard back from them yet. 

Again we like this car and if the dang CEL stayed off we wouldn't have any complaints whatsoever, the car has always run well. But we can't tell when the problem is serious or not, so taping over the light is not a viable option. I am also not willing to continuously reset the error codes. 

I did talk with a guy at the Oregon Attorney Generals Consumer Division about what if any recourse I have in this situation. He said that we were way past the use of Lemon Laws, but that contact with the Federal Trade Commision was one of the avenues I should go. My plan next Thursday is to meet with the dealer service manager and start pushing this up the hill from their side and to get GM regional involved. 

When we bought this car we were also looking at the VW Jetta TDI, not sure that would have gone any better, but we for sure didn't sign up for being guinea pigs in GM's development program.

I should note that this car is used daily to drive in to work about 25 miles each way with 20 of those miles being at steady 60+ mph, so the motor/exhaust should be getting warm enough to manage burning off the particulates. Early on they were claiming that in town driving was causing the problem, but that was never the case.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

For now I am going to avoid this recall just like the first one. I am now just over 50,000 miles/80,000 km and have had zero issues and zero trips to the dealer to date (knock on wood). I would like to keep it that way.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Bear55 said:


> Ok, we had the latest recall done a little over a week ago, they also put a new kit on for DEF pump of some sort. Did the regen, reprogrammed it and new NOX sensor. It is nearly impossible to understand their jargon in house terminology, but that is what the verbal description was. The car actually ran much better afterward and all was good for about a week and then the dreaded CEL was on again. Then yesterday morning it was off again. We have no faith that it will stay off so have decided to really start chewing up the food chain here. The car goes back to the dealer next Thursday. I have sent a message to GM Customer Care on their website and have not heard back from them yet.
> 
> Again we like this car and if the dang CEL stayed off we wouldn't have any complaints whatsoever, the car has always run well. But we can't tell when the problem is serious or not, so taping over the light is not a viable option. I am also not willing to continuously reset the error codes.
> 
> ...


Earlier you brought up reading and being able to reset your codes... what codes were you getting?

From what little you disclosed it seems a little early to start talking "Attorney General" and law suits, that will only alienate the people who are trying to help and do you know for sure whether you are not doing something which is contributing to the problem... i.e. cheap low priced biodiesel or maybe you need to use a little of the GM approve diesel additive with the grade of diesel you are using? Also your car could have multiple problems which need to be worked out.

I have 63K miles on the clock now and did not have any sensor problems until 59K miles. Their are others that have gone over 200K miles without these issues... seems a little early to start talking legal action. For the most part my '15 Cruze has performed as one would expect with only the proper maintenance as described by the owners manual.


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## Bear55 (May 24, 2017)

I don't intend to start any legal actions now. The point is trying to understand what if any position I have when I start the next round of discussions with the dealer and GM. If our car had gone 59,000 miles without any issues and the CEL on half the time I wouldn't be getting cranky, but we are only at 37,000 and have had to deal with multiple trips to the dealer. I would also have a whole different sense for this if there weren't so many others with similar problems.

When we see the dealer I will ask them to print out all of the work orders they have done on this car.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Bear55 said:


> I don't intend to start any legal actions now. The point is trying to understand what if any position I have when I start the next round of discussions with the dealer and GM. If our car had gone 59,000 miles without any issues and the CEL on half the time I wouldn't be getting cranky, but we are only at 37,000 and have had to deal with multiple trips to the dealer. I would also have a whole different sense for this if there weren't so many others with similar problems.
> 
> *When we see the dealer I will ask them to print out all of the work orders they have done on this car*.


If you PM me your VIN, I can help with that.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

So Eric is there any indication if this means better/worse/same fuel mileage?


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## Bear55 (May 24, 2017)

Ok the car is back in the garage and I plugged in an OBDII and using Torque app I see a powertrain error code P2598 that apparently deals with the turbocharger. Then in the test section there are two tests that are failing, but I have no idea what they refer to. And yes the CEL is back on again.









I'm not sure how to enlarge this screen shot here, but it refers to MID: $85 TID:$b3 and :b4 and both are well of range.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

My car goes in tomorrow for this ecu reprogram so I'll let everyone know how it goes and any difference if any I notice.


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## theonlypheonix (Oct 8, 2015)

Over 4K miles and no CELs since this recall, thing seems to document similar as to before the recall. There appears to be more differences with wind direction/speed, road grade and outside temperatures then I been able to relate directly to the recall at this time. DEF fluid consumption is still low before and after the recall.


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## Aranarth (Oct 18, 2016)

I had this recall done with the def tank heater replacement.

Fuel economy is about the same, maybe slightly better, defintely NOT worse.

Car seems a bit more peppy with much less turbo lag when pulling out. Turbo lag used to be about 2 seconds then I changed the air filter which dropped it to about 1 second. Now it seems more like 1/2 a second after the nox sensor was replaced.

Once I get the car filled on the way home I'll be able to tell for sure if fuel economy is up or not. I have not refilled the car since the manual regen was done which wastes a ton of fuel. Car said fuel economy for last 25 miles was 19mpg when I picked it up. When I dropped it off it was at 46mpg for last 25 miles.


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

People have been saying good things about this recall. Nobody seems to be having the issues again. Bear55 hasn't completed the 17089 recall, just the previous one, so his issues are not related.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Got a call saying my car is updated. They left a list of services I should think about (ha) and I'll be picking it up tonight.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Done.... 1K miles and no CELs ...yet.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Just picked it up. Instantly noticed the throttle response.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Feels like it starts boosting earlier or maybe less of the tq management


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

TDCruze said:


> For now I am going to avoid this recall just like the first one. I am now just over 50,000 miles/80,000 km and have had zero issues and zero trips to the dealer to date (knock on wood). I would like to keep it that way.


Well, not long after writing this ^ my CEL came on for the DEF Heater failure. Now the Cruze will be getting the recall completed along with the tank replacement. Dealer is waiting on the DEF tank, but I should have the car back by Monday. It would be nice if the re-flash improved throttle response.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

TDCruze said:


> TDCruze said:
> 
> 
> > For now I am going to avoid this recall just like the first one. I am now just over 50,000 miles/80,000 km and have had zero issues and zero trips to the dealer to date (knock on wood). I would like to keep it that way.
> ...


Oh 100% it does! I can only talk about my car but it's night and day better for throttle response and it pulls hard now instead of me hoping I would be in the right spot for the downshift. I always thought my car was a little weird compared to some of the people talking about how powerful their cars felt though. 

Used to leave a light normal and accelerate to 1800rpm and then it would push you into the seat a little because it was accelerating harder. Now the only way I can describe it is linear. A steady pull the whole time. I actually was into it constantly all the way home just because i was amazed at how much better it is


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

money_man said:


> Oh 100% it does! I can only talk about my car but it's night and day better for throttle response and it pulls hard now instead of me hoping I would be in the right spot for the downshift. I always thought my car was a little weird compared to some of the people talking about how powerful their cars felt though.
> 
> Used to leave a light normal and accelerate to 1800rpm and then it would push you into the seat a little because it was accelerating harder. Now the only way I can describe it is linear. A steady pull the whole time. I actually was into it constantly all the way home just because i was amazed at how much better it is


It sounds amazing money_man, I haven't seen any complain yet since the new recall was implemented so I've decided to get mine too... Hope all will be okay

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk


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## EricSmit (Dec 21, 2016)

Nobody seems to be complaining about the new recall, except people that haven't had it done.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Told my girlfriend to take it for a drive and let me know what she thinks. I'll fill you guys in on her opinion


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

I will be honest, to me it feels like there is more torque management. My car used to hit me in the backside now it dosnt feels alot slower.


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## TDCruze (Sep 26, 2014)

TDCruze said:


> Well, not long after writing this ^ my CEL came on for the DEF Heater failure. Now the Cruze will be getting the recall completed along with the tank replacement. Dealer is waiting on the DEF tank, but I should have the car back by Monday. It would be nice if the re-flash improved throttle response.


The parts came in quicker than expected and I already have my car back from the dealer. 

I have not done a lot of driving with it yet, but so far I do not notice much difference in power, acceleration or fuel mileage from before. 

I am just happy that the CEL is off and the countdown to death is gone.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

I always felt like my pull was weird compared to how other people described theirs. Other people talked about all this tq on tap and yet I could only find it once in a blue moon. Maybe my original tune was wonky? All I know if there's a huge difference in my car.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

So 500km later I get a cel, code P20e4. Seems it's for EGT sensor 2 according to the tq app


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

so I did the recall 17089 last Friday, I removed my Scangauge from OBDII port before dropping the vehicle at the dealership for the recall. So when I left my car there it had 21stm and after they performed the recall 17089 it had the same 21stm and no change in mileage. According to GM bulletin procedure when performing recall 17089 they supposed to mannually regen the filter and they didn't, also how can I make sure that they reprogrammed the ECM with the new updated calibration, is there a way to check it?
I still get codes P11DC after this recall.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

pacolino said:


> so I did the recall 17089 last Friday, I removed my Scangauge from OBDII port before dropping the vehicle at the dealership for the recall. So when I left my car there it had 21stm and after they performed the recall 17089 it had the same 21stm and no change in mileage. According to GM bulletin procedure when performing recall 17089 they supposed to mannually regen the filter and they didn't, also how can I make sure that they reprogrammed the ECM with the new updated calibration, is there a way to check it?
> I still get codes P11DC after this recall.


I stopped by the dealership that did my recall in dec 16, they hook the car up to a laptop and it was sitting in back of dealership and car was in park and engine running at 3000 rpm for a long time to do manual regen. I have since changed driving habits and do almost all highway miles now, I get 900-1000 mile regens now, although today was 530. Not sure how to check it.


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## pacolino (Aug 1, 2015)

IndyDiesel said:


> I stopped by the dealership that did my recall in dec 16, they hook the car up to a laptop and it was sitting in back of dealership and car was in park and engine running at 3000 rpm for a long time to do manual regen. I have since changed driving habits and do almost all highway miles now, I get 900-1000 mile regens now, although today was 530. Not sure how to check it.


well I guess they didn't initiate a DPF manual regen as it was required by the procedure, and also I don't see much improvement in regens, I've got 11stm in 250km highway, and as for torque I don't feel any difference than before the recall, but what bothers me is code P11DC which I still get. Maybe someone knows how to check if ECM was flashed with the new calibrated software. After I found out that they didn't manual regen DPF and physically replacing Nox 1 sensor, I doubt that they actually reprogram the ECM.


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## paveway51 (Sep 27, 2014)

So, I took the car into the dealer last Wednesday (10/25/2017) to have the Recall 17089 performed and also had the transmission service (fluid replacement). The car has about 76k miles. I got it back about an hour later and everything worked great. Drove it work the next morning and the engine light came on. I decided to drive it around for a couple of days to see if it would go out. If it didn't, I was going to take it back to the dealer. Like what many have posted the light will come on and go out after driving around for awhile. 

Well Saturday morning (10/28/2017) I went to start the car to go to the store and now the car will not start. As I turn the key to start it, the engine "chuggs" and then eventually dies. Have to wait until Monday for the dealer to come get the car and work on it. 

This is the first major issue with the car since I bought it. Anybody else experience the same problem?

Thanks.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

paveway51 said:


> So, I took the car into the dealer last Wednesday (10/25/2017) to have the Recall 17089 performed and also had the transmission service (fluid replacement). The car has about 76k miles. I got it back about an hour later and everything worked great. Drove it work the next morning and the engine light came on. I decided to drive it around for a couple of days to see if it would go out. If it didn't, I was going to take it back to the dealer. Like what many have posted the light will come on and go out after driving around for awhile.
> 
> Well Saturday morning (10/28/2017) I went to start the car to go to the store and now the car will not start. As I turn the key to start it, the engine "chuggs" and then eventually dies. Have to wait until Monday for the dealer to come get the car and work on it.
> 
> ...


EGR stuck open.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g.../210810-my-egr-throttle-plate-experience.html


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## paveway51 (Sep 27, 2014)

Oilburner, 
Thank you for the reply. Is this based on experience with this car or is this a guess?
Just curious. Thankyou


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

My guess is that while an open EGR can easily prevent a gasser from idling, it's unlikely to stall a diesel.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Taxman said:


> My guess is that while an open EGR can easily prevent a gasser from idling, it's unlikely to stall a diesel.


It won't stall a diesel, but it'll prevent it from starting. It'll run pretty rough if it's stuck open, though.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

paveway51 said:


> So, I took the car into the dealer last Wednesday (10/25/2017) to have the Recall 17089 performed and also had the transmission service (fluid replacement). The car has about 76k miles. I got it back about an hour later and everything worked great. Drove it work the next morning and the engine light came on. I decided to drive it around for a couple of days to see if it would go out. If it didn't, I was going to take it back to the dealer. Like what many have posted the light will come on and go out after driving around for awhile.
> 
> Well Saturday morning (10/28/2017) I went to start the car to go to the store and now the car will not start. As I turn the key to start it, the engine "chuggs" and then eventually dies. Have to wait until Monday for the dealer to come get the car and work on it.
> 
> ...


It's a bad idea to ignore that CEL, even if you think you know what it is. A simple code reader can be had for less than $30. Read the codes when that light comes on so you'll have some idea as to what is going on. I seem to recall someone else had a similar non start problem that was a stuck open EGR.. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## paveway51 (Sep 27, 2014)

MRO1791, 
I agree. It was not my intent to have it come across that I would ignore the CEL. I do have a code reader and the code was the same as previous CEL (P24AE). Since the car is still under the extended warranty, I do schedule a service and report the code to my local dealer. In the past when this code came on, it would go out after about a day of driving or ironically after I make an appointment. Either way I still take it in to have it serviced. 
The sensor related to this code (particulate matter sensor) was replaced at 35K miles. When I talked to the technician, he commented that there was excessive build up of soot (carbon). Since I am now at 75K, I am wondering if this is a similar/same issue (failure of sensor due to carbon build up). If this is the case, then its seams to me that carbon build up in the engine is going to be an issue for the long term. I guess I am going to either have to plan to clean the exhaust/intake sensors every 20K -30K or spend money on having them replaced. 
If anybody else has comment/recommendations/experiences, I would glad to hear them. Thanks


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

paveway51 said:


> MRO1791,
> I agree. It was not my intent to have it come across that I would ignore the CEL. I do have a code reader and the code was the same as previous CEL (P24AE). Since the car is still under the extended warranty, I do schedule a service and report the code to my local dealer. In the past when this code came on, it would go out after about a day of driving or ironically after I make an appointment. Either way I still take it in to have it serviced.
> The sensor related to this code (particulate matter sensor) was replaced at 35K miles. When I talked to the technician, he commented that there was excessive build up of soot (carbon). Since I am now at 75K, I am wondering if this is a similar/same issue (failure of sensor due to carbon build up). If this is the case, then its seams to me that carbon build up in the engine is going to be an issue for the long term. I guess I am going to either have to plan to clean the exhaust/intake sensors every 20K -30K or spend money on having them replaced.
> If anybody else has comment/recommendations/experiences, I would glad to hear them. Thanks


what is your lifetime mpg?


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## paveway51 (Sep 27, 2014)

Boraz, 
Lifetime MPG is currently 38mpg, but I say that with the understanding that this is not an accurate measurement. 

For example, my travel back and forth to work is only about 5-10 miles. It used to be about 15-20 miles when I first purchased the car and I was averaging 48-50mpg (60mph). I drive the vehicle from North Carolina to Texas every year to see family and I will average about 42 mpg going approximately 75 mph. Most of the time when I drive I use the cruise control. Its been a great car with the exception of the emissions/sensor issues. 
I do plan to keep the car and I expect to get about 300K before I have any major issues. Of course, doing the basic maintenance is always required to get long life out a car. Per the owner's manual, there is no requirement to clean the sensor/intake/exhaust or what not. Considering what I have seen when taking into consideration the Engine codes/ mile interval/ failed component/forum reviews, I suspect that additional care/maintenance is going to be required if I want to get to 300K.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

paveway51 said:


> Boraz,
> Lifetime MPG is currently 38mpg, but I say that with the understanding that this is not an accurate measurement.
> 
> For example, my travel back and forth to work is only about 5-10 miles. It used to be about 15-20 miles when I first purchased the car and I was averaging 48-50mpg (60mph). I drive the vehicle from North Carolina to Texas every year to see family and I will average about 42 mpg going approximately 75 mph. Most of the time when I drive I use the cruise control. Its been a great car with the exception of the emissions/sensor issues.
> I do plan to keep the car and I expect to get about 300K before I have any major issues. Of course, doing the basic maintenance is always required to get long life out a car. Per the owner's manual, there is no requirement to clean the sensor/intake/exhaust or what not. Considering what I have seen when taking into consideration the Engine codes/ mile interval/ failed component/forum reviews, I suspect that additional care/maintenance is going to be required if I want to get to 300K.


you wont get 300k out of the emissions system...its untested and theres many points of failure, only some of which have been occurring....just the state of modern diesel emissions.

the better your mpg, the better off youll be, but still are gonna spend $1000s to get to 300k


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

paveway51 said:


> Oilburner,
> Thank you for the reply. Is this based on experience with this car or is this a guess?
> Just curious. Thankyou


there`s been a few on here with your exact symptom. egr should never be open at closed throttle.
changed an or cleaned several over the years .been a mechanic for over 40 years. based on what your telling us it does sound suspect.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

paveway51 said:


> MRO1791,
> I agree. It was not my intent to have it come across that I would ignore the CEL. I do have a code reader and the code was the same as previous CEL (P24AE). Since the car is still under the extended warranty, I do schedule a service and report the code to my local dealer. In the past when this code came on, it would go out after about a day of driving or ironically after I make an appointment. Either way I still take it in to have it serviced.
> The sensor related to this code (particulate matter sensor) was replaced at 35K miles. When I talked to the technician, he commented that there was excessive build up of soot (carbon). Since I am now at 75K, I am wondering if this is a similar/same issue (failure of sensor due to carbon build up). If this is the case, then its seams to me that carbon build up in the engine is going to be an issue for the long term. I guess I am going to either have to plan to clean the exhaust/intake sensors every 20K -30K or spend money on having them replaced.
> If anybody else has comment/recommendations/experiences, I would glad to hear them. Thanks


A sticking EGR will cause excessive soot.. and had caused cars to not start. Ironically the control of NOx, which is what the EGR is for.. causes more soot, that requires more regen. Do you have any soot in your tail pipe? If so you could have a failed DPF, though you most likely have just a stuck EGR. Ironically too much soot messes up the sensors. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## paveway51 (Sep 27, 2014)

MRO1791, 

Thank you for the info and the yes there is soot on tailpipe. Just to give everyone an update, the cause of the non-start was the EGR valve and yes it was due to excessive build of soot. The car runs great, but apparently I will have to start using some kind of cleaner on a regular basis. Does anybody have any recommendations on a great cleaner for diesels. 

Thank you everyone for all the assistance.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

paveway51 said:


> MRO1791,
> 
> Thank you for the info and the yes there is soot on tailpipe. Just to give everyone an update, the cause of the non-start was the EGR valve and yes it was due to excessive build of soot. The car runs great, but apparently I will have to start using some kind of cleaner on a regular basis. Does anybody have any recommendations on a great cleaner for diesels.
> 
> Thank you everyone for all the assistance.


Are you asking about a fuel additive to ‘clean’ the diesel during normal driving or do you want to know what product to use when you remove the EGR/Throttle Plate for cleaning?

Haven’t tried any fuel additives/cleaners, perhaps others have. 

When I removed the EGR for cleaning, I used this along with an old toothbrush and it worked quite well.


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