# Recurrent Overheating. Engine Dead now!



## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Based on minimal information I really think you should abandon the current dealer.

Example: I will guess a stuck thermostat caused the hoses to blow off......If I'm right, the thermostat was supposed to be covered under powertrain......any failures that resulted from that part failure are called 'consequential'.
Consequential damage that is a result of a powertrain component failure are also covered.

So, if this is what happened, the current dealer has no problem taking advantage of his service customers.....end the relationship.

As you read the various posts here you will note that a failure as you described is, at best, uncommon.....so I wonder what is really happening here.

The vehicle is not notorious for this type of extreme failure.

Kind of wonder if the dealer is not fully verifying the car is correctly repaired.

Rob


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

dkmcclelland said:


> So, I'd like to start this thread out by saying that my sister bought her 2012 Cruze 2LT RS 1.4T Auto almost three years ago with 26,000 miles. It now has 85,000 miles and has had more problems with overheating than I'd like to count.
> 
> This car has stranded her on the side of the road not once, not twice, or three times. This past Friday was the fourth time that she's been on the side of the road. The third time resulted in blowing off all of the coolant hoses leaving her stranded on the interstate with no coolant or water. This, of course, was not covered under the power train warranty and had to be fixed out of pocket.
> 
> ...


Very sorry to hear about all of this. I can empathize with how your sister is being treated. It was very hard to get a dealer to take my brand new purchase seriously when I went to ask about cars. I was 23 at the time of purchase. And no one wanted to help me with anything. Even when I started doing paperwork, I was treated like garbage. I had to raise a complaint when my dealer transfer came in due to it having massive cobweb build up and leaves under turbo. After bringing it back to have it detailed, I waited at the dealer for 4 hours, and after all that time, they bring my car back with all the dust soaked in puddles of armor all. They hadn't even opened the hood. I was FURIOUS. After just spending more of my time cleaning the car myself I finally calmed down and accepted that I have the car I love and I've transferred over to a different dealer with positive results.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

dkmcclelland said:


> But to make ALL of this worse, the dealership that she has to go to is completely inept and treats her like shes a 16 year old girl that has no clue about anything.


Why does she "have" to go there? Especially if they treat her like that? Your warranty is with GM, not the dealer. You owe no loyalty to them.

I'm with Robby. Find another dealer. I realize they may be out of your way, but that's probably what it's going to take to get this fixed right.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

chevrasaki said:


> Very sorry to hear about all of this. I can empathize with how your sister is being treated. It was very hard to get a dealer to take my brand new purchase seriously when I went to ask about cars. I was 23 at the time of purchase. And no one wanted to help me with anything. Even when I started doing paperwork, I was treated like garbage. I had to raise a complaint when my dealer transfer came in due to it having massive cobweb build up and leaves under turbo.


 I've never heard of that, why wouldn't a dealer take your purchase seriously at age 23. Do you have that Webster disease or not take showers on a regular basis, what was up that day? If you are over 18 and don't appear to have any visible mental conditions the FIRST thing the dealer wants to do is bring you into a tiny little room and play 4 square with you, where they divide a blank paper into 4 sections and do their thing. In special circumstances they do the 'Spot Delivery' thing and let you just sign some forms and drive away, worrying how you will pay another day. Generally most Car Dealers will push you out the door only if your credit score is too low or your income is not acceptable.


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

Eddy Cruze said:


> I've never heard of that, why wouldn't a dealer take your purchase seriously at age 23. Do you have that Webster disease or not take showers on a regular basis, what was up that day? If you are over 18 and don't appear to have any visible mental conditions the FIRST thing the dealer wants to do is bring you into a tiny little room and play 4 square with you, where they divide a blank paper into 4 sections and do their thing. In special circumstances they do the 'Spot Delivery' thing and let you just sign some forms and drive away, worrying how you will pay another day. Generally most Car Dealers will push you out the door only if your credit score is too low or your income is not acceptable.


This particular dealer was a Cadillac GMC Buick Chevy dealer. They were really not interested in my purchase because 90% of the people who go there are buying 60K+ Cadillacs and GMC/Chevy trucks. 90% of their customers are over 60 years old. They did not care about me because I was getting the cheapest car I could find, with a GMS discount. The car I was interested in was on another dealer lot so they had to transfer it, and it had sat on the other dealer lot for 381 days and was already offering $3,500 cash back. They would not have batted an eye to me walking next door to the ford dealer. But I really liked the car, and it was very reasonably priced.


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## jsusanka (Jan 31, 2011)

Everything should of still been covered under the power train warranty. Open a case with GM and find a new dealer.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Let me reiterate what others have said about finding another dealer. 

I was once 21 years old and dealing with dealers while driving Pontiac's top of the line vehicle. So I know what it's like to be brushed off. But very quickly I drove the 30 minutes to another dealer (receipient of the time Quality Dealer award) and was treated with the respect I deserved. 

A friend of mine, of the female persuasion, who drives Subaru, gets unbelievable BS from Otto's her Subaru dealer. Complete film-flam BS and stories to drive her anxiety through the roof. She now won't go in there unless escorted by a man - and can't wait until she's off warranty and never has to deal with them again. Her Forrester is a good car, but Otto's has made the ownership experience wholly unpleasant. Because of them she'll likely never buy Subaru again.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

The problem is that now the car will not start. The engine will not turn over. When the car was towed it was taken to the closest Chevy dealer, which was this dealer. The next closest dealer that's GM is a Cadillac dealer, and I actually just remembered that it was there. 

They called her this morning and stated, "Your battery is dead. You need to buy a new battery before we can even turn the car on to find out what's wrong." I'm a little helpless being four hours away from her and I can't go there myself. 

Who can I call to open a case with GM with this? That was my reason for creating this thread.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

How old is the car and how many miles? If under 3 years/36,000 miles the battery is covered as part of the B2B warranty. Otherwise, get a battery installed and take the car to a different dealership.


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

obermd said:


> How old is the car and how many miles? If under 3 years/36,000 miles the battery is covered as part of the B2B warranty. Otherwise, get a battery installed and take the car to a different dealership.


Doesn't sound like it's going to be that easy to install a battery for him, if he is 4 hours away. And also, doesn't sound like he can just drive it to another dealer sounds like it'll have to be towed. What a major hassle/inconvenience. I'd be pretty heated.

Note: It mentioned on the first post the car is a 2012 model with 86K miles so it's out of the bumper to bumper warranty.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

> So, I'd like to start this thread out by saying that my sister bought her 2012 Cruze 2LT RS 1.4T Auto almost three years ago with 26,000 miles. It now has 85,000 miles and has had more problems with overheating than I'd like to count.
> 
> This car has stranded her on the side of the road not once, not twice, or three times. This past Friday was the fourth time that she's been on the side of the road. The third time resulted in blowing off all of the coolant hoses leaving her stranded on the interstate with no coolant or water. This, of course, was not covered under the power train warranty and had to be fixed out of pocket.
> 
> ...




Hi there, 

I am truly sorry for the negative experience and we can understand how frustrating this may seem for not only you, but your sister. This is certainly not the kind of impression we wanted to provide your family as valued customers. 

I would be more than happy to look into this situation more, and bring this to the attention of the Customer Experience Manager at the dealer. Please have your sister send us an e-mail at [email][email protected][/email] ATTN: Patsy. We will need to work directly with her to resolve this situation in the best way possible. We look forward to her message! 

Patsy G
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

chevrasaki said:


> Doesn't sound like it's going to be that easy to install a battery for him, if he is 4 hours away. And also, doesn't sound like he can just drive it to another dealer sounds like it'll have to be towed. What a major hassle/inconvenience. I'd be pretty heated.
> 
> Note: It mentioned on the first post the car is a 2012 model with 86K miles so it's out of the bumper to bumper warranty.


Missed that. In this case I would recommend a new battery be installed and the car then driven to the nearest different dealership for other repairs as needed. Depending on where the car is located it is very possible the battery has died of old age.

Also, take Patsy up on her offer.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

Tomko said:


> Let me reiterate what others have said about finding another dealer.
> 
> I was once 21 years old and dealing with dealers while driving Pontiac's top of the line vehicle. So I know what it's like to be brushed off. But very quickly I drove the 30 minutes to another dealer (receipient of the time Quality Dealer award) and was treated with the respect I deserved.
> 
> A friend of mine, of the female persuasion, who drives Subaru, gets unbelievable BS from Otto's her Subaru dealer. Complete film-flam BS and stories to drive her anxiety through the roof. She now won't go in there unless escorted by a man - and can't wait until she's off warranty and never has to deal with them again. Her Forrester is a good car, but Otto's has made the ownership experience wholly unpleasant. Because of them she'll likely never buy Subaru again.


I had a brand new Turbo Colt and after my first Oil Change the Turbo blew. The really old service man (around 50) told me I used the wrong oil, not Turbo Oil and my Warranty was void. He didn't even look at the oil, just blurted out that statement. Fast forward 20 years later I bought a Subaru Forrester Turbo in Miami. The Car was a death trap but the Daewoo Dealer who was now selling Subaru's wasn't set up to service them. The Service manager used that same line, I voided the Subaru warranty because I used Rain-X on the windshield. I do think it needs to be noted that the G.M. Powertrain warranty is very limited in coverage. If I had a CRUZE that wouldn't start I'm not sure I would be towing my Car to the dealer especially if they are abusive.


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## brian v (Dec 25, 2011)

By all means ask to speak to the service manager and remain calm ..
Write down the words that are necessary to elaborate your concerns when you obtain the all important meeting with the manager ...watch the service advisor squirm ..this usually takes a few minutes and the outcome is as usual you get the required service ......

I love IT when they tell ya to take the survey ...yeah . Then I get to delete another E Mailed Survey ......

Guy asks me if I want to trade in me cruzen ..I say yeah for a Ford Mustang EcoBoost .......I did .....the TPMS monitors would'nt pare and Now I have what I like !


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Just to reiterate, I would love to be able to hop over to the dealership and take the car somewhere else, but I am four hours away from my sister and the car will not turn over. She attemtped to jump the car off and the engine will attempt to turn over but the starter is unable to make a full cycle leading me to believe that the crank will not turn and/or the block or head is warped. 

I'm also not able to make an appointment with the service manager until the end of this week. I have reached out to Patsy, or rather I reached out to my sister and helped her get in touch with Patsy. She's an educated young woman, but when it comes to things such as this she's over her head. I hope that Patsy gets her e-mail and responds promptly.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

When I hear "overheating" followed by "engine won't turn over" I'm thinking hydrolocking. If the battery can power the headlights, it may not be the battery. 

All the hoses blown off? Either they weren't tightened, or this is a case of blown headgasket. I'd just about bet money on a headgasket. The question is how badly damaged the engine is.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Sorry to be confusing, ChevyGuy, three months ago the coolant hoses "blew off" or rather became disconnected and the car ran hot and had to be towed. They "fixed" the hoses and she's been okay. She checks the coolant level and oil level each morning before she leaves for school or work and Friday morning she was good to go on coolant and oil. Friday afternoon she's driving home and the car overheats and she pulls off the road shuts the car down and checks the coolant once it cooled. Empty. Oil level is fine. No obvious signs of draining in her parking space she says, but I can't speak to that as I'm so far away. 

She has the car towed, and had she called me I would have told her to take it to the Cadillac dealer in town, but she didnt. The closest Chevy dealer is 60+ miles away from her so she had it towed to the same dealer. 

The problem that I am concerned with is the coolant hoses were not covered under this shitty powertrain warranty and I am worried that now we will be paying for a head gasket, block, or whatever else may be gone to **** on this piece of **** car. 

I'm a nurse and work 12 hour shifts 7A-7P so yesterday and today I have been unable to call the dealership and figure out what is wrong. I am boiling at this point because the service secretary treats my sister like she's an idiot. They told her this morning "You need to pay for a new battery before we can even figure out why it won't start" 

Mind you, the headlights and interior electronics all work. I'm sure the battery could be bad I mean the car is 4 years old. I just am at my wits end because I'm so far away and can't do much up here.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm not sure what to suggest in this situation. Your sister might need to find an advocate that's closer to where she is. You could also look into the cost of the tow to another dealer.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

dkmcclelland said:


> Sorry to be confusing, ChevyGuy, three months ago the coolant hoses "blew off" or rather became disconnected and the car ran hot and had to be towed. They "fixed" the hoses and she's been okay. She checks the coolant level and oil level each morning before she leaves for school or work and Friday morning she was good to go on coolant and oil. Friday afternoon she's driving home and the car overheats and she pulls off the road shuts the car down and checks the coolant once it cooled. Empty. Oil level is fine. No obvious signs of draining in her parking space she says, but I can't speak to that as I'm so far away.
> 
> She has the car towed, and had she called me I would have told her to take it to the Cadillac dealer in town, but she didnt. The closest Chevy dealer is 60+ miles away from her so she had it towed to the same dealer.
> 
> ...


 Why is it we can say Shitty but we can't say $hit or c rap? Listen you are a Nurse, not a Mechanic. The Car is a 2012 and has almost 100,000 miles on it. Things are going to continue to break. I suggest your sister go to a lower cost local in town trusted mechanic. If its a powertrain issue her mechanic will notify her and at that point the car can be towed to a G.M. Dealer while the 5 year/100K is still in force.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Eddy Cruze said:


> Listen you are a Nurse, not a Mechanic.


Thanks :eusa_clap:


Eddy Cruze said:


> The Car is a 2012 and has almost 100,000 miles on it. Things are going to continue to break. I suggest your sister go to a lower cost local in town trusted mechanic. If its a powertrain issue her mechanic will notify her and at that point the car can be towed to a G.M. Dealer while the 5 year/100K is still in force.


When I've been working 12 hour shifts in the ICU I can't take care of things for her. I am calling the shop in the morning and getting to the bottom of why we're now on day three and they have yet to diagnose anything with the car besides a dead battery.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

ChevyGuy said:


> I'm not sure what to suggest in this situation. Your sister might need to find an advocate that's closer to where she is. You could also look into the cost of the tow to another dealer.


Contacted GM Customer Service tonight via live chat. Case is opened and they are having the car towed to another dealer tomorrow.

Also, I need to correct we've had three issues with the car breaking down and leaving her stranded. 

1: Head gasket or valve seal blew (cant remember which), low oil pressure reduced power and on the side of the road last summer
2: Early Fall coolant hoses blew off and car ran hot. 
3: The latest overheating issue which left the car on the side of the road unable to turn over.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

In this mechanical world we live in, such a thing as preventative maintenance, you certainly hope this was done properly in that airliner you are trusting your life to. Most people drive their vehicles until they fall apart.

Far and foremost with any vehicle is keeping the condenser and radiator clean. Not too happy the way the Cruze was made, can't remove that radiator/cover from the top, can get a lot of debris build up between the radiator and the condenser. Has to be cleaned from the bottom from removing that lower front cover first. Lack of air flow through these fins causes overheating.

Single drive belt was never a good idea, that water pump is the weakest link, If you full field an alternator on the bench, can barely turn that pulley, this extra load is transferred to the water pump as is the load from the AC compressor. Than all these are using limited lubricated ball bearing, grease dries up. Also the brushes in the alternator wear out. 

Bearings in the alternator and compressor idler pulley can be replaced, water pump is a throwaway item. Around 75K miles is when this should be done, not sure about the Cruze.

Cooling systems are basic, already got rid of the heater control and the radiator cap, should be checking coolant level frequently when cold, up to the full mark.

What can be said about aluminum heads. no where near robust as cast iron, when the engine overheats, they tend to crack.

Cruze is the first vehicle I have owned with quick coupler coolant hoses and O'Rings, not a good idea either. O'Rings could never take the heat, dry up and crack causing leaks. More preventative maintenance, but won't find this in the shop manual. 

Just drive it until it falls apart and buy a new one.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

OP, As much as it pains me to say this but I think your sister should trade her Cruze. Before she does she needs to get a good read on how the other dealership service departments in the area treat their customers, especially younger single women. Her dealership has caused her nothing but headaches and even if she gets this round of issues resolved she's always going to be leery of this car. Having a car you can trust is a huge stress reducer.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Unfortunately, I think this is the plan. She had planned to visit me this weekend for me to take her to Costco and buy new tires, replace brake pads, and detail it for her. Now we are going to spend the day Saturday at CarMax test driving cars for her to find something else she may like. We've always owned Honda vehicles and after she totaled her Civic coupe she fell in love with the Cruze. 

I'm the guy that changes his own oil and does the preventative maintenance to prevent these things from happening. I got that from my dad. She tries, bless her heart, but she just isn't as meticulous. Since the first time the car overheated she checks the coolant level each morning, but who knows... Before the '09 Civic she had an '04 Accord and that thing had 240,000 miles and never missed a beat.... She'd still have the Civic if she'd of missed that deer... 

Thanks for all your suggestions guys, but at this point I don't have any faith in the Cruze to reliably transport her to school and work.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Just got off the phone with the dealer... Apparently they did a compression test and the car has no compression. They aren't sure why. The receptionist told me they only have four techs and that it will take time for them to figure out why it doesn't. They don't have a machine shop in the town the dealership is in so once they get them off they have to send them out if they determine that's the problem. We're looking at 1-2 weeks if that's the case. 

At this point I don't know if we should have the car moved to another dealer or not. What would you guys do? My thinking is we've already got the ball rolling to have the car moved, but they've started tearing the engine down at this point so as long as the power train warranty is covering it just leave it there.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Let them fix it, especially since they've diagnosed the car. Get the car running and then go trade it.


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## ranger024x4 (Jan 13, 2016)

obermd said:


> Let them fix it, especially since they've diagnosed the car. Get the car running and then go trade it.


Agreed


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## Cruzen Vegas (Aug 27, 2015)

your going to get a whole new engine, I wouldn't trade it in,,,


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## ranger024x4 (Jan 13, 2016)

Cruzen Vegas said:


> your going to get a whole new engine, I wouldn't trade it in,,,


easy to say when you arnt in that position.










I was in the same position right after I purchased my f150, It started knocking the day after I bought it. In the first two months of ownership, I drove it a total of 4 days. In the first few months after getting it back, it went back several times for random coolant burning smells, transmission issues among others. I know what it feels like having a vehicle that could not be trusted and really really thought hard about trading it in and taking a loss. I decided to stick it out and its been a decent truck now for the last 6 months.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Cruzen Vegas said:


> your going to get a whole new engine, I wouldn't trade it in,,,


Even with a new engine I would strongly consider trading for something else where the dealership's service department treats their customers properly.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

No loaner from this dealership?

Have to say with a degree of despair, we have more GM dealerships that give very bad service than good service in my neck of the woods.

Sounds like more widespread than just my neck of the woods.

Something GM should look into if they want to keep on selling vehicles.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

NickD said:


> No loaner from this dealership?


Not as of yet. The woman at the service desk said she doesn't know when she'll have a loaner. I told her if she didn't have a loaner then they needed to find her a car ASAP. Patsy has reached out to my sister and I hope that they are able to speed up the loaner process. That's one amazing thing I love about my BMW is if it needs service, I have a loaner. 

As to the getting an entirely new engine, I don't know how likely that is. Even so, at this point when it is breaking down every 3-4 months I don't care if they replaced the engine and transmission I don't trust it and I have zero faith in this dealership. 

Oddly enough, the same family that owns the Chevrolet dealership owns the Honda dealership there and the service at Honda is amazing. 

I guess it's all perception and personal experience when it comes to the experience in the dealership.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

obermd said:


> Even with a new engine I would strongly consider trading for something else where the dealership's service department treats their customers properly.


I think the car is fixable. 

Dealer problems? Take your pick: 


Stick it out and expect more of same
Find another dealer in your area (probably inconvenient)
Switch to another brand of car that's serviced by another dealer
Move to another area.

There's a part of me that hates to give up on a car, but the options for fixing dealer problems are pretty limited.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I would think if they replace the engine that the lion share of issues should be resolved.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

IndyDiesel said:


> I would think if they replace the engine that the lion share of issues should be resolved.


Yes, that will likely fix the car. But what if it needs service again? While it may give good service from here on, I don't know as we can expect it to never need another visit. If you still have the same dealer: Rinse, lather, repeat.

That's what's behind the suggestion of trading it in. The car may turn out fine, but the dealer has ruined the brand for this person. As much as we like to be pro-Chevy and pro-Cruze, a person's happiness is more important.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

ChevyGuy said:


> Yes, that will likely fix the car. But what if it needs service again? While it may give good service from here on, I don't know as we can expect it to never need another visit. If you still have the same dealer: Rinse, lather, repeat.
> 
> That's what's behind the suggestion of trading it in. The car may turn out fine, but the dealer has ruined the brand for this person. As much as we like to be pro-Chevy and pro-Cruze, a person's happiness is more important.


I don't disagree. I am very lucky, I have a very good Chevrolet dealer close to home. The dealer I bought my diesel at in Georgia had so many problems, very sad, the Chevrolet brand is only as good as the dealer experience.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

At three local Chevy dealerships, the service managers major concern about doing warranty work was getting compensated from GM. Does your dealer have this same concerned?

And never got a straight answer on this with my own warranty work, who exactly is liable for warranty repairs? GM, or the dealer that sold you the vehicle, assumingly, they both made a profit on this sale.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

> Just got off the phone with the dealer... Apparently they did a compression test and the car has no compression. They aren't sure why. The receptionist told me they only have four techs and that it will take time for them to figure out why it doesn't. They don't have a machine shop in the town the dealership is in so once they get them off they have to send them out if they determine that's the problem. We're looking at 1-2 weeks if that's the case.
> 
> At this point I don't know if we should have the car moved to another dealer or not. What would you guys do? My thinking is we've already got the ball rolling to have the car moved, but they've started tearing the engine down at this point so as long as the power train warranty is covering it just leave it there.




Hey there, 

I have been communicating with your sister regarding this, and the case created earlier has now been transitioned and I am the owning agent of the case. If you have questions, let me know in a private message, but I'm continuing my assistance until she is reunited with the vehicle, issue free! Thank you for your continued updates! 

Patsy G
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Once again our Customer Care staff comes through. Thank you Patsy.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

obermd said:


> Once again our Customer Care staff comes through. Thank you Patsy.


:rock:


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

You now have our A Team working for you from Detroit.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

Tomko said:


> You now have our A Team working for you from Detroit.


The A-Team will always be here .









Thanks! 

Patsy, Cecil, Helen and Jasmine
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

obermd said:


> Once again our Customer Care staff comes through. Thank you Patsy.


You’re most welcome, obermd. We are glad to be a part of this community and are always happy to help the best way possible!

Jasmine
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

NickD said:


> At three local Chevy dealerships, the service managers major concern about doing warranty work was getting compensated from GM. Does your dealer have this same concerned?
> 
> And never got a straight answer on this with my own warranty work, who exactly is liable for warranty repairs? GM, or the dealer that sold you the vehicle, assumingly, they both made a profit on this sale.


Hey NickD,

I‘m sorry to hear that you’re experiencing concerns with your Cruze. Please send a private message with more details so I can look into this for you.

Cecil J.
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

NickD said:


> At three local Chevy dealerships, the service managers major concern about doing warranty work was getting compensated from GM. Does your dealer have this same concerned?
> 
> And never got a straight answer on this with my own warranty work, who exactly is liable for warranty repairs? GM, or the dealer that sold you the vehicle, assumingly, they both made a profit on this sale.


Why G.M. of course the first time around, and paid handsomely at about 33% of the book cash labor rate. Parts are also provided at a slight profit. However return visits for the identical issue are not paid in the same manner?


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

GM (and all other domestics....I cannot speak for the imports) for warranty work pays cost + 10% for parts. Labor is paid at published customer pay hourly rate (this is variable.....each dealer, being an independent business, sets their labor at prevailing regional rates).

Dealers cry about warranty work primarily because manufacturers will only pay for published time from the manufacturers time book.
The time listed is, for the most part, reasonable......the parts margin is poor and the 10% is more to cover administration costs.

The dealer would rather charge the time given from either Chiltons or Motors time guides......those are generally 150 to 200% over the manufacturer repair time.
This extremely generous time book allows piss poor techs. to dawdle along, have coffee, take a dump, visit......on your dime.

Good mechanics love the aftermarket time book because we can book sixty to seventy hours in a fourty hour week, if one wishes to get the job done.....and likes making good coin.
Dealer prefers selling parts out of warranty because they can sell at suggested retail (about cost +70%) or, in some cases, dealers use a price escalator, allowing even more margin.

As far as paying for comeback repairs due to poor diagnosis or execution......The car owner wouldn't.........in a warranty case, the manufacturer shouldn't either.......not their fault.
In cases like this, the mechanic gets 'de-booked'......the time that was paid for the incorrect repair is removed from the mechanics time 'booking'.........simple terms, removed from the mechanics next check.

Just reiterating a few things,

Rob


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Well... It's been over a week and the only update that I have is that the heads are possibly warped. I can't wait for this inept dealership to finish the job so we can sell the car. The car is still is sitting in the parking lot with no more real progress since last week... Their excuse: "We've only got four techs and there's another Cruze back there that's got engine problems and we haven't had time to figure out what exactly is wrong with yours" Whatever... At least my sister has a loaner...


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Warped heads in GMs are almost always a failure of the water pump. It doesn't have to leak, just not pump.


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

Robby said:


> GM (and all other domestics....I cannot speak for the imports) for warranty work pays cost + 10% for parts. Labor is paid at published customer pay hourly rate (this is variable.....each dealer, being an independent business, sets their labor at prevailing regional rates).
> 
> Dealers cry about warranty work primarily because manufacturers will only pay for published time from the manufacturers time book.
> The time listed is, for the most part, reasonable......the parts margin is poor and the 10% is more to cover administration costs.
> ...


Wow, incredible wealth of information and well put! Pretty much what I was attempting to say, of course hearing it a little differently by a mechanic who had to do a repeated repair and wasn't getting paid, at least what he normally could make.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Chevy Customer Care said:


> Hey NickD,
> 
> I‘m sorry to hear that you’re experiencing concerns with your Cruze. Please send a private message with more details so I can look into this for you.
> 
> ...



Ha, wife is happy our warranty is up, now its my job to keep my Cruze running like a clock, and no more fighting. Even during warranty, she was saying, just buy the parts.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Eddy Cruze said:


> Wow, incredible wealth of information and well put! Pretty much what I was attempting to say, of course hearing it a little differently by a mechanic who had to do a repeated repair and wasn't getting paid, at least what he normally could make.


Right in the labor times, just one example, to replace a heater core, time is one hour allotted, but under warranty, this is cut to 30 minutes.

Ha, I can't even come close to the labor rates, say when replacing a thermostat, put a wrench on one of the bolts, barely touch it, and the head breaks off. Or an EGR valve, what should take a few minutes can take the rest of the day if you want to do it right. Have to take apart the rest of the vehicle to even get a drill in there, not good to be around me when this happens, my language is not so good.

Never was a problem with 1920's-30's vehicles, back then they knew how to make a bolt. More common to break a wrench. One reason why us older guys say, they don't make them like they use to.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Do you guys think there's anything we can do to keep the car from overheating? She's at 84k miles and really isn't in a place to get another vehicle right now. Water Pump warranty is extended to 10 years 150,000 miles so if that is the cause of the fail and warped heads it will be covered until then. 

Also, what preventative maintenance can she do to help with anything else? She only owes 6k on the car now and is still in school so I don't want to have to co-sign with her for a new car if I don't have to. I just have zero faith in this car now.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

dkmcclelland said:


> Do you guys think there's anything we can do to keep the car from overheating? She's at 84k miles and really isn't in a place to get another vehicle right now. Water Pump warranty is extended to 10 years 150,000 miles so if that is the cause of the fail and warped heads it will be covered until then.
> 
> Also, what preventative maintenance can she do to help with anything else? She only owes 6k on the car now and is still in school so I don't want to have to co-sign with her for a new car if I don't have to. I just have zero faith in this car now.


Keep a close eye on the coolant levels. Also, buy a bottle of the GM florescent coolant dye to help you identify leaks. This dye is how I figured out I was loosing coolant out my surge tank cap's o-ring.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Apparently watching the coolant levels doesn't do much since it overheated this time full of coolant (to my understanding from what she's told me)

Such a headache this has become. It's why I will never personally buy another GM product. From my 2006 G6 to her Cruze I have lost any faith I've had in Chevy.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

dkmcclelland said:


> Apparently watching the coolant levels doesn't do much since it overheated this time full of coolant (to my understanding from what she's told me)


This tells me the water pump isn't pumping. I had this happen on my wife's Pontiac Sunbird (multiple warped head gaskets) and once the water pump was replaced the car ran a whole lot better.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

obermd said:


> This tells me the water pump isn't pumping. I had this happen on my wife's Pontiac Sunbird (multiple warped head gaskets) and once the water pump was replaced the car ran a whole lot better.


That's what I'm thinking. The problem is the dealership has the car in the parking lot waiting to be torn down because they only have four techs and can only apparently work on one car at a time...


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Sent nine kids through college, no way to get their without some kind of vehicle starting off with a 1964 Ford Falcon and ending up with a 2004 Chevy Cavalier. Transportation, room, and board, tuition, and a couple of bucks for fun. Oh, they also need to wear clothes. 

Overheating was only one of the problems, if not a broken timing belt I replaced for one of the kids in a parking lot. Sure in the hail couldn't pay what dealers charge. Had other kids at home that also required support. Latest problem, but done with this now, was the super high cost of health insurance. Well least of kids, they have their own now.

80 Horizon comes to mind, radiator was all plugged up, could unsolder the tanks and rod it out myself. For the Cruze, this part is strictly throw away.










If an idiot used a screw clamp for the hoses, the plastic nipples would break off, can only use a spring clamp.

This is an age old problem worsened by putting a condenser in front of it. Tons of debris, dead insects can build up between these two heat exchangers, and when they do, have over heating problems. Won't go into detail, but even to check this on the Cruze, the entire front end of the Cruze has to be removed just to peek inside. This isn't very nice. 

Leaks can occur with the likes of this, using O'rings for seals that can't withstand the heat of a 220*F cooling system.











This is another throwaway item.










When FWD came out, was discussed using an engine driven fan geared off the camshaft, too expensive, use an electric motor instead, really hits the alternator, because worst case is stalled in city traffic where the engine speed is the lowest and no draft through the radiator.

Cruse used three made in China relays in the underhood fuse/relay box, no contact no fan, fan is made in China, sure that doesn help either. 

Did have a cracked head once, never was a problem is cast iron, got a friend to heliarc it and grounded it down, price of a new head was more than what the car was worth.

Have one Cruze that after four years and 44K miles that hasn't overheated, try my best to keep the condenser fans clean. Your Cruze is no different, but does have problems, problem is finding a dealer with enough brains to repair it. Have to rate the cooling system in the Cruze as one of the more miserable ones to work on.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

NickD said:


> Have one Cruze that after four years and 44K miles that hasn't overheated, try my best to keep the condenser fans clean. Your Cruze is no different, but does have problems, problem is finding a dealer with enough brains to repair it. Have to rate the cooling system in the Cruze as one of the more miserable ones to work on.


Thanks NickD for the wealth of information. That's my problem with the Cruze. Being four hours from her I can't do these things and she sure as **** has no clue how to do these...

Edit: Just spoke with the dealership, they've got the head off and are sending them to a machine shop to determine the extent of the damage apparently. Won't do anything further until they hear back from that.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

With an aluminum head engine, once overheating starts, have to shut he engine off, no choice in this.

Just way too many people tried to go a few extra miles or so and ended up with warped or cracked heads.

Had to worn my kids on this issue, also carried AAA on them, well also paying for a cell phone.

Right now wondering why these credit card people are giving credit cards to kids when they don't have any money to pay them back. When I went to college was 4 bucks a credit hour and brand new books were around a buck each. Today, its absolutely insane. Brains are getting all screwed up trying to make heads or tails with an IRS form 8863. IRS can't even hire people that know how to explain things. Who composes these forms?


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

The head is not repairable. Waiting for them to get a new head installed and then run further tests. Going on a month in the shop.


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## dkmcclelland (Feb 9, 2016)

Spoke with the dealership yesterday. The head that was ordered is on back order. I am assuming that it was just a bare bones head with nothing attached because they spoke with GM and was approved to order a more expensive, more assembled, head for the car and should have the head installed by beginning to mid-week next week. Only THEN will they be able to perform another compression test and then move forward with testing the water pump and all other variables that could have contributed to the overheating. 

I feel like we'll never get the **** car back. I would ask for suggestions from you guys, but nothing can speed up the shop or the part ordering process at this point.


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