# Yet another audio thread



## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

I've got a 12 Eco with the base system in it.

I'm looking at replacing the stock speakers, and adding 6x9s to the rear deck. My main objective here is to get better sound quality while utilizing the stock stereo. Oh yeah, I'm on a smallish budget (under $400). 

The door speakers are fairly simple replacement depending on how much I want to spend. The 6x9s are another question entirely. Mounting is easy, wiring may be another matter. Is there any wiring back there to start with? If not, where can I get signal? I'm no stranger to turning a wrench, running wiring, and using a soldering iron, but I'd rather not turn this into a huge project.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> I've got a 12 Eco with the base system in it.
> 
> I'm looking at replacing the stock speakers, and adding 6x9s to the rear deck. My main objective here is to get better sound quality while utilizing the stock stereo. Oh yeah, I'm on a smallish budget (under $400).
> 
> The door speakers are fairly simple replacement depending on how much I want to spend. The 6x9s are another question entirely. Mounting is easy, wiring may be another matter. Is there any wiring back there to start with? If not, where can I get signal? I'm no stranger to turning a wrench, running wiring, and using a soldering iron, but I'd rather not turn this into a huge project.


Adding 6x9 rear speakers is not the way to get better sound quality. 

Here's my recommendation: replace your front speakers with something more capable, amplify them with a cheap, used amp, and deaden your doors to improve the speakers' bass response. 

I'm in the process of making a writeup on an SQ install. See the first link in my signature. 

You can use a PAC AA-GM44 to get the RCA signal outputs from your factory stereo.


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

Although I was planing on replacing the door speakers, I wasn't planning on amplifying them. 

What speakers do you recommend for door replacements, preferably not amplified?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> Although I was planing on replacing the door speakers, I wasn't planning on amplifying them.
> 
> What speakers do you recommend for door replacements, preferably not amplified?


What's your budget?


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

I'd like to stay under $300 for door speakers, $200 would be better.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> I'd like to stay under $300 for door speakers, $200 would be better.


Here are the options I would choose from based on your price range:
Precision Power PPI PC2.65C 6-1/2" 2-Way Component Speaker System

Followed by...
Image Dynamics CTX-6.5cs (CTX 65 CS) 6.5" CTX Component Speakers



My personal recommendation is to go with the Image Dynamics CTX speakers. You will not be disappointed, I can guarantee that. Then, contact Don over at SDS and order a kit for deadening your front doors so you can get the most out of those speakers. Over 75% of how your front speakers will sound has to do with your install, not the specific speakers you choose. I can make a set of Focal, Rainbow, or HAT components sound like complete garbage with a bad install, and I can make a set of Polk DB6501s sound incredible with a good install. The Image Dynamics components are very high quality parts. Running those will give you some room to purchase sound deadening for your doors. 

Again, I can't stress enough how important it is to properly deaden your doors. It will make or break how your speakers will sound, and once you do this and hear the difference, I can guarantee your jaw will drop. It's not uncommon for people to spend more money on sound deadening than they do on the speakers themselves. 

Don over at SDS sells by far the best sound deadening materials I've ever used and they are worth every dollar. These put Dynamat and eDead to and any other re-branded "flashing tape" type butyl deadener to shame. 

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

You can contact him at [email protected]. Tell him Andrei sent you. I've personally worked with him on a number of occasions and he definitely knows what he's talking about. My knowledge of car audio is overshadowed by his knowledge of deadening.


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

I really like those Image Dynamics. I don't know what kind of power the stock head unit supplies, but I'd be surprised if it's above 20 or 30 watts. With the 25 watt minimum recommendation on those, it looks like I'll be amplifying them. 

It's funny that you mention Polk DB. I put some DB series 6 1/4 speakers in my Blazer and was very happy with them.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> I really like those Image Dynamics. I don't know what kind of power the stock head unit supplies, but I'd be surprised if it's above 20 or 30 watts. With the 25 watt minimum recommendation on those, it looks like I'll be amplifying them.
> 
> It's funny that you mention Polk DB. I put some DB series 6 1/4 speakers in my Blazer and was very happy with them.


I used the DB5250 component set in my Regal for a while. Don't get me wrong, they have a smooth top end and a good midrange, but their low end presence is very lacking compared to other options. Those pretty much require a sub or other speakers to fill in the missing bass. I was able to get more out of them with 100W RMS to each side and some equalization, but that only indicates that the Qtc is too high as a result of too stiff of a suspension and they were designed to be abused. At that price range, pretty much all speakers are. 

Image Dynamics has always made top tier, high quality products. Their subs are world-class SQ competition winning subs, and the always stand by their products. I would try them with your stock head unit as they may work just fine. Looks like they have a fairly beefy motor under that rubber cover, which should help your sensitivity and allow you to play clear and distortion-free with little power. It's the dynamic peaks you generally have to worry about. I have bonfires at my place every saturday in a slightly over half an acre yard and I always play some music on speakers I designed myself on a little modified Lepai amplifier that produces 20W x 2 RMS at 4 ohms, and my wife always ends up turning the volume down because you start having to yell over the music to talk to someone. I like it loud, but once people start showing up, I have to turn it down some. 20W is plenty of power to get up to respectable volumes. 

Don't forget the sound deadening!


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

That's great to hear. Quick question... Have you looked at replacing the tweeters in the A pillar? I'll most likely be purchasing the Image Dynamics and was thinking of installing the tweeters in the factory location. 

I was using a sub with the Polks in my Blazer, so at the time bass wasn't much of an issue. I still have the Polks, and may try them out and see if there's much difference from the stock speakers.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> That's great to hear. Quick question... Have you looked at replacing the tweeters in the A pillar? I'll most likely be purchasing the Image Dynamics and was thinking of installing the tweeters in the factory location.
> 
> I was using a sub with the Polks in my Blazer, so at the time bass wasn't much of an issue. I still have the Polks, and may try them out and see if there's much difference from the stock speakers.


In my project, which I'll be going into great detail in, (first link in my signature), I'll be replacing the pillar tweeters with these:

Morel MDT-44 1-1/8" Compact Soft Dome Tweeter 277-042

I may need to cut the rear chamber a bit and make it smaller, but testing has shown that it makes a very small difference on frequency response if I seal it back up well. I got them cheap used, but if you wanted to get them new, these would be what you'd need:

Morel ET 448 1-1/8" Soft Dome Tweeter 277-074

They're special because they can be crossed down to 1500hz or even lower with a very steep crossover (I'll be using a MiniDSP) and have a very high power handling. However, at $117 a pop, they're a bit out of most peoples' price range.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

Ill be following Xtremes suggestions for the Cruze. There really isnt anyone in my area that is building something purpose built for this car. I would rather just go off of what he suggests. The most important thing is sound deadening. Id also like to drop some of the road noise, even though to me, the Eco is pretty quiet.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> Ill be following Xtremes suggestions for the Cruze. There really isnt anyone in my area that is building something purpose built for this car. I would rather just go off of what he suggests. The most important thing is sound deadening. Id also like to drop some of the road noise, even though to me, the Eco is pretty quiet.


Sound deadening really is the most important thing. Without it, all of your money spent on speakers goes out the window. It's not just about blocking road noise, but about damping panel resonance vibrations and separating the back wave of the speaker from the front. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with your Cruze.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Sound deadening really is the most important thing. Without it, all of your money spent on speakers goes out the window. It's not just about blocking road noise, but about damping panel resonance vibrations and separating the back wave of the speaker from the front.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with your Cruze.


I was thinking panel resonance, but for some reason, that didnt make it from my fingers to the page. I cant think of anything more important than feeling like you're in a sealed room with the perfect acoustics. Check out my comment on the Neo 10" when you get a chance. Im not really on a budget for this build, but I dont have anything more than $1,000-$1,200 in mind. Since I am keeping the stock head unit and just getting the MiniDSP. 

I also may be putting my McIntosh amp into another project. So What else do you recommend for SQ.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> I was thinking panel resonance, but for some reason, that didnt make it from my fingers to the page. I cant think of anything more important than feeling like you're in a sealed room with the perfect acoustics. Check out my comment on the Neo 10" when you get a chance. Im not really on a budget for this build, but I dont have anything more than $1,000-$1,200 in mind. Since I am keeping the stock head unit and just getting the MiniDSP.
> 
> I also may be putting my McIntosh amp into another project. So What else do you recommend for SQ.


There a LOT of things I can recommend for SQ if you aren't set on using that little cavity in the trunk. We can open up a huge world of options.


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## CruzeTech (Mar 23, 2012)

I was just talking about putting the sub in that spot. I didnt even think of where I was going to mount the amp. Can it be mounted on the rear seat? I thought I heard someone saying that was metal, so maybe not.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

CruzeTech said:


> I was just talking about putting the sub in that spot. I didnt even think of where I was going to mount the amp. Can it be mounted on the rear seat? I thought I heard someone saying that was metal, so maybe not.


What I'm saying is, you're sacrificing a lot by limiting yourself to subs that will fit in that cavity, because you're now severely limited in options by mounting depth and internal volume. That pretty much leaves you with only small neo or shallow subs, the latter of which comes with significant compromises. If you could perhaps consider using that space for something else and making a normal sub box, I could make some real recommendations for SQ subs.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Here are the options I would choose from based on your price range:
> Precision Power PPI PC2.65C 6-1/2" 2-Way Component Speaker System
> 
> Followed by...
> ...




I'm in the same situation as the Beachernaut, and I've read this thread through and through. Only, I am a complete noob when it comes to the installation. If I get the sound deadening supplies along with the amp and speakers, and take it to a local car audio shop will they know how to install it?


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## sajayra (Apr 15, 2012)

This video will help 2012 chevy cruze amp install with stock radio - YouTube


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> I'm in the same situation as the Beachernaut, and I've read this thread through and through. Only, I am a complete noob when it comes to the installation. If I get the sound deadening supplies along with the amp and speakers, and take it to a local car audio shop will they know how to install it?


They might install it, but you can do most of this yourself. My install is currently in progress, and I will be documenting everything I do so people will know what's involved and will be able to do the same thing. Just hang in there until I get that writeup done and then decide whether or not you need to have a shop do it all.


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

I'll be anxiously waiting to see install thread, I'm not in a dire rush to get everything together. Another question though. What kind of new/used amp should I look into getting if 1) I will only replace the front two speakers with the Image Dynamics CTX 6.5cs, and 2) later down the line I was thinking of getting a really small sub, or something just to give me some better lows. Some other articles i've been reading into are touting the bazooka tubes, but I'm still skeptical. Anyway, what I want later down the line would be some better lows, but only focused on SQ while also maximizing my trunk space.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> I'll be anxiously waiting to see install thread, I'm not in a dire rush to get everything together. Another question though. What kind of new/used amp should I look into getting if 1) I will only replace the front two speakers with the Image Dynamics CTX 6.5cs, and 2) later down the line I was thinking of getting a really small sub, or something just to give me some better lows. Some other articles i've been reading into are touting the bazooka tubes, but I'm still skeptical. Anyway, what I want later down the line would be some better lows, but only focused on SQ while also maximizing my trunk space.


I actually already started the thread. I'll be updating with pictures of my progress and complete instructions for each step. It's the second link in my signature.

What kind of amp? Anything that provides 50W rms or more on two channels.

Bazooka tubes create bass, but the quality is poor. The absolute best sub for your purpose is the Alpine 8" Type R sub. Excellent SQ sub and works very nicely in .5 cubic feet. You can get it for $95 on sonicelectronix.com. I can recommend you a suitable amp if you want.

Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

An amp recommendation would be much appreciated. This seems like a stupid question but does amp need to be housed? and if so any recommendations?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> An amp recommendation would be much appreciated. This seems like a stupid question but does amp need to be housed? and if so any recommendations?


Amps do not need to be housed, just mounted and wired up. They should be mounted on anything but the sub box. 

I'm leaning toward a Boston Acoustics amp because they're thin and are designed to be mounted in any direction for cooling, which helps when you want the option to mount it under the rear deck.

I'll look something up tonight if I have time or tomorrow for sure.

Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Amps do not need to be housed, just mounted and wired up. They should be mounted on anything but the sub box.
> 
> I'm leaning toward a Boston Acoustics amp because they're thin and are designed to be mounted in any direction for cooling, which helps when you want the option to mount it under the rear deck.
> 
> ...



Jeez I must have been really tired last night... what I meant to ask, for my stupid question, is; does the sub need to be housed, and if so how/ what would you recommend. Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> Jeez I must have been really tired last night... what I meant to ask, for my stupid question, is; does the sub need to be housed, and if so how/ what would you recommend. Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.


The sub does indeed need to be housed. That's why we put subs in sub boxes. I design sub boxes for free, but I also sell them should you want me to build you one. I'm currently in the process of building my sub box for the Cruze. Hopefully, I'll be able to post some progress photos tonight. If not, tomorrow. 

The reason why the subs need to be boxes is because of sound cancellation. You need a way to separate the rear waves of a subwoofer from the front waves, and the way we do this is by putting it in a box. Now, sealed boxes generally are the simplest and for the most part, sound the best with regard to sound quality. Most of the time, they are also smaller than ported boxes. Ported boxes use a port, which adds what we call "augmented output." Basically, it's output in addition to what the cone is producing. Ported boxes can sound great if designed well, but not all subs work well with ported boxes, and not all ported boxes can be built to a reasonable size. For example, before deciding on using the IDQ15 for my car, I had planned to use it for my home, where I needed two 4" diameter x 22" length ports in a 4 cubic foot box. That would take up my entire trunk! Instead, it's going into a sealed box in 1.45 cubic feet, which is much more manageable. 

Pre-fabricated boxes are almost always junk. I can however build you one for a reasonable cost. I say reasonable compared to what a shop would charge you to *build *a *custom *box. For an 8" sealed sub in .5 cubic feet, I'd charge about $125 plus shipping to build it.

Here's the combination I'd recommend:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_17785_Boston-Acoustics-GT-2125.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...ut[query_id]=8740718&SearchClickout[Ignore]=1


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## scubasteve5325 (Apr 15, 2012)

I would definitely appreciate if you could design a box, from there I'll see if the cost ect would be work it for me to build it. And if all else fails I could order one from you, though shipping might get out of hand (chicago - LA ). 

So a two channel amp is all I'd need? 1 channel for the pair of speakers, and 1 for the sub? I'm still a noob when it comes to car electronics. I'm paranoid that when/if I modify anything on the car I'd some how mess it up. And as a side note, does this void any part of the warranty? (the installation of new speakers, amp, sub, sound deadening materials?) I don't really think its going to stop me now, I'm way too excited. 

I've already ordered the speakers; I think I'm going to order the amp and install those two then concentrate on the sub/ box, and the sound deadening. I sent Don (sound deadener showdown) a message asking him what he wold recommend for what I am doing, but he hasn't replied yet. Probably just a combination of my excitement and impatience.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

scubasteve5325 said:


> I would definitely appreciate if you could design a box, from there I'll see if the cost ect would be work it for me to build it. And if all else fails I could order one from you, though shipping might get out of hand (chicago - LA ).
> 
> So a two channel amp is all I'd need? 1 channel for the pair of speakers, and 1 for the sub? I'm still a noob when it comes to car electronics. I'm paranoid that when/if I modify anything on the car I'd some how mess it up. And as a side note, does this void any part of the warranty? (the installation of new speakers, amp, sub, sound deadening materials?) I don't really think its going to stop me now, I'm way too excited.
> 
> I've already ordered the speakers; I think I'm going to order the amp and install those two then concentrate on the sub/ box, and the sound deadening. I sent Don (sound deadener showdown) a message asking him what he wold recommend for what I am doing, but he hasn't replied yet. Probably just a combination of my excitement and impatience.


I'll post up photos of my current box progress so you can see what I'm talking about in a bit. Basically, you're looking at a double thick front baffle, with the entire box glued up together. For the double thick baffle, you need a router or a dremel with a circle cutting jig as the circles have to be pretty precise. You need bar clamps (harbor freight makes the best ones I've used to date), wood glue (Titebond II), and either have the wood cut by home depot, or cut it yourself with a table saw. You need 3M adhesive spray to glue the carpeting on. The carpeting and the terminal cup you'll need can be bought at parts-express.com. You'll need some screws for mounting the sub of course, and I'd recommend coarse thread, pan head screws, at least 1" in length. You need a drill and a drill bit to pre-drill the holes for the screws so you don't split the MDF. 

That's the general process for building a sub box. Again, home depot can make all the cuts for you and I can give you the exact cut sheet measurements if you want to do this yourself. Believe me, I'd rather see you do it than build you one as I know how rewarding it is. If you think you can do it, let me know and I'll get you the measurements and more specific details.


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

Wow, I completely forgot about my own thread.....

Looks like I'll be doing this a piece at a time as my budget has been..... reduced.... I think I'll start with sound deadening, I'll email Don and figure out what I need and how much it'll cost. Once I have that, I'll install it as I do the speakers in the doors, then do the trunk when I run the wiring for the amp.

For all I know, it may be 6 months down the road before I'm done. I'm starting with the front doors, then rear doors, then tweets in the A pillar, and probably finishing with a sub in the trunk.

At this time I'm planning on using the Image Dynamics 6.5" in the front doors, and maybe the rear doors also. Not sure about the tweeters in the A pillar, probably go with what Xtreme already recommended. I really like the Alpine Type R sub. When the time comes I'll probably ask Xtreme to design a box for me. I have a wood shop in my garage, so building it myself won't be a problem.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Beachernaut said:


> Wow, I completely forgot about my own thread.....
> 
> Looks like I'll be doing this a piece at a time as my budget has been..... reduced.... I think I'll start with sound deadening, I'll email Don and figure out what I need and how much it'll cost. Once I have that, I'll install it as I do the speakers in the doors, then do the trunk when I run the wiring for the amp.
> 
> ...


Glad you're going with the sound deadening first. That will certainly help you get an amazing sound. 

Those components are great, but I wouldn't put them in the rear doors; no point to it. Just get some good coaxials for the rear doors.

The 8" Alpine sub will make you smile. It's a very nice sounding sub. Let me know when you want a box designed.


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## Beachernaut (Mar 27, 2012)

Yeah, I've never used sound deadening before. However, I understand the reasons behind it, and I can't think of any reason not to do it. Since I'll be using it with pretty much every part of my upgrade, I'll order all of it that I need, and install it while doing the corresponding speaker install.

I'll be sure to let you know when I'm ready for the sub box design, but it'll most likely be a month or more.


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