# Infamous pcv check valve failure



## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

But.. what is going to fail again is the check valve... If you can do the replacement by yourself, why don't you spend a couple more hours and put the bypass valve on the old manifold? XtremeRevolution put a very good documntation together, I did this bypass too:
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-g...ifold-pcv-check-valve-fix-25.html#post3017154
Replacing the manifold will just postpone the failure. The design is bad, the valve won't last regardless of the "reinforcements" they pretend were done to the manifold housing...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Bassmanjr5 said:


> After doing some research, I have found that there is one aftermarket option being marketed by Dorman part number 615-380. This intake manifold is sold without the fuel rail, injectors, and throttle body but also comes at half the cost at $165 via ebay. But they appear to be scarce. Here are the details and I will follow up with details regarding performance and install
> 
> www.dormanproducts.com/p-101387-615-380.aspx?year=2012&make=Chevrolet&model=Cruze&parttype=Intake%2520Manifold&origin=YMM





CRUISE-CRUZE said:


> But.. what is going to fail again is the check valve... If you can do the replacement by yourself, why don't you spend a couple more hours and put the bypass valve on the old manifold? XtremeRevolution put a very good documntation together, I did this bypass too:
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/34-g...ifold-pcv-check-valve-fix-25.html#post3017154
> Replacing the manifold will just postpone the failure. The design is bad, the valve won't last regardless of the "reinforcements" they pretend were done to the manifold housing...


The description is useless, since they talk about coolant passages, which this intake manifold has none of. That was clearly copied off of another intake manifold. 

As mentioned above, you still end up with a poor design for the PCV system that integrates a check valve that cannot be serviced. My PCV fix kit is currently $135 including the throttle body spacer, which saves you $30 over the Dorman design and will most likely last the life of the vehicle. Should that check valve need servicing, it can be done for $10-$20, not another $165. 

Lastly, I've been wholly underwhelmed with the quality of Dorman parts in the last few years. I have some serious doubts about the reliability of that manifold. GM also released a manifold that has none of the bits that are normally bolted on and were charging $180-$210 for it depending on where you could find one.


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## Bassmanjr5 (Jan 26, 2014)

I agree with both of you. I went this path with the intention to have a working manifold and to hopefully be able to accomplish the bypass on the original. So when the new one fails again I'll be ready with the bypass plan. I've read that post several times and being in the mechanical contracting trade have regular access to all those parts at a great price. Just trying to buy some time. But also was mentioning this option in the sense that you don't have to spend 300 dollars for a new manifold if you go with this manifold. But then again we will just have to wait and see what the next poor design failure will be brought forward lol. 

Thank you guys for the response!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Bassmanjr5 said:


> I agree with both of you. I went this path with the intention to have a working manifold and to hopefully be able to accomplish the bypass on the original. So when the new one fails again I'll be ready with the bypass plan. I've read that post several times and being in the mechanical contracting trade have regular access to all those parts at a great price. Just trying to buy some time. But also was mentioning this option in the sense that you don't have to spend 300 dollars for a new manifold if you go with this manifold. But then again we will just have to wait and see what the next poor design failure will be brought forward lol.
> 
> Thank you guys for the response!


When the part arrives, please take a few pictures of their check valve solution and send them to me if you don't mind. I'd like to see what they did differently (if anything) from the original design.


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## Bassmanjr5 (Jan 26, 2014)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Bassmanjr5 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with both of you. I went this path with the intention to have a working manifold and to hopefully be able to accomplish the bypass on the original. So when the new one fails again I'll be ready with the bypass plan. I've read that post several times and being in the mechanical contracting trade have regular access to all those parts at a great price. Just trying to buy some time. But also was mentioning this option in the sense that you don't have to spend 300 dollars for a new manifold if you go with this manifold. But then again we will just have to wait and see what the next poor design failure will be brought forward lol.
> ...


I will do that. That's the only frustrating part was no specifics regarding what "updates" were actually accomplished with this. But I'll get those over to you when it comes in. Should be around Wednesday.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Bassmanjr5 said:


> After doing some research, I have found that there is one aftermarket option being marketed by Dorman part number 615-380. This intake manifold is sold without the fuel rail, injectors, and throttle body but also comes at half the cost at $165 via ebay. But they appear to be scarce. Here are the details and I will follow up with details regarding performance and install
> 
> www.dormanproducts.com/p-101387-615...l=Cruze&parttype=Intake%20Manifold&origin=YMM


This must have been just added to their catalog over the past week. When an earlier post mentioned that the intake manifold didn't include accessories the first place I went to look for aftermarkets was Dorman. It appears even their fact sheet hasn't been updated to show the 615-380 number.

I know that Dorman Intakes were a big repair item for Series 3800 engines, and I heard very few issues of the replacement intake failing. 

I imagine in the next few months this part number might be added to the Rockauto catalog for those that might read this. I've found they are signficantly lower than other shops on Dorman.

I'm not against Extreme's fix, but there's just something scary about drilling and gluing the manifold. Sure it's not hard, but after I get the old one off, I just want to reverse the effort and put things back together. 

Doing the drilling and gluing outside of the actual fix when the car is not down sounds a little easier.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

carbon02 said:


> This must have been just added to their catalog over the past week. When an earlier post mentioned that the intake manifold didn't include accessories the first place I went to look for aftermarkets was Dorman. It appears even their fact sheet hasn't been updated to show the 615-380 number.
> 
> I know that Dorman Intakes were a big repair item for Series 3800 engines, and I heard very few issues of the replacement intake failing.
> 
> ...


Yeah I think it was a recent addition. That being said, every mechanic I've talked to in the last couple of years had some pretty unpleasant things to say about Dorman replacement parts. I too had a good result with the 3800 upper intake manifold plenum, as I had two of those engines that required that fix. However, it's been many years since they released that part. Quality seems to have dropped since then. 

It might be intimidating, but I can assure you it's fairly straightforward. It would just suck to spend $165 on a Dorman manifold only to have it sit around afterward. I've shipped over 200 of these kits and received feedback via e-mail and on this forum, and everyone has noted it was a pain-free repair process.

The drilling is surprisingly quick, and the gluing is more of a caulking. Its purpose is to plug up the hole and keep the screw from backing out. To be totally honest, if you do that part first, it will be dry enough by the time you have the intake manifold back in the car to start it up and drive around. It's also a cheaper fix by $30 and is serviceable. I'll actually update that thread shortly here to offer replacement check valves in case anyone wants to replace theirs for any reason. I can ship a check valve out for $15.

I'm just not a fan of PCV systems that aren't serviceable and prone to leaks. From what I'm seeing in the pictures, the Dorman manifold does not have a serviceable PCV system, so once it gunks up with some PCV crap, it will either leak or suffer the same fate as the GM manifold, both of which are design flaws inherent to this manifold.


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## shockz (May 23, 2015)

Sorry to hijack, after having to deal with this in my 2014, I was wondering if this has been corrected on the newer models? I also have a Gen2 2016... does the new 1.4L (LE2) have the same PCV design/issues?


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

The GEN2 is a different 1.4L engine, I think this actually has a serviceable PCV valve. I'm not sure if anyone has studied and dissected a GEN2 in terms of flow of the PCV system. It doesn't have the same parts. All different design and intake.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Yep, like carbon02 said, totally different engine. There is nothing shared between the two.


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## Bassmanjr5 (Jan 26, 2014)

Well I have the intake manifold on now and there is nothing majorly "upgraded". The check valve is the same design so you are correct xtreme (wasn't doubting you sir) they did change to 10mm bolts for the fuel rail and the retaining bolt for the component on the bottom passenger side of the manifold that has the 2 smaller hoses and wiring harness. But once again my boost is back to normal. I have held on to the old intake manifold to complete the bypass. But hopefully this one will last 77k as well. 

Now just have to figure out my stabilitrak traction control light issue. Found with the snow we experienced here in ohio I had torn the wires on the harness side. Did a solder fix on the wires and replaced the sensor but still have the lights. But I will wait. Been doing all the work to my car in my apartment parking spot.... the bad weather makes it rough.

Thanks guys for the feedback and I hope I can follow up after a few hundred miles with positive feedback.


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## fastflyer (Mar 20, 2018)

I replaced the intake manifold on GF's Cruze with the dorman PSK-DOR-615-380 upgraded. From StockWise Auto for 144.00 with shipping. Comparing the 2 there are some changes. Vacuum Tubing for turbo waste gate coming from solenoid under manifold is in a different spot. Manifold "pot" is a different shape. whether any of these things make any difference, I have no idea. BUT what is different regarding PCV Check valve is that it is displaced further back into the manifold vs it in line with the Anti-return check valve tube opening. Same design however I have no idea if this will remedy the lousy designed system.













[h=1][/h]


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## jstahliv (Apr 13, 2016)

First I have been having issues since October. Got misfires, O2 senser readings, p0300 , p0302, and I am sure now that my PVC diaphragm failed yesterday , codes related to that. I changed Spark plugs, neg. batt. cable, ignition coil, and about to change intake manifold (the dorman, I am NOT mechanically inclined and can't do the fix but I wanted to, TY EXtreme), a new pcv hose, and valve cover all at once on wednesday at local garage. I spoke to Dorman as I wanted to make see what they said about the check valve in the new intake manifold and wanted to pass on what they said. This started as the infamous " service stabilitrak service traction control " error message. 

"John:







does the dorman 615-380
Nick:







Good afternoon,
Nick:







how can I help you
John:







have upgrades to the check valve / non return valve compared to oem?
John:







I have oem intake manifold that has a failed/ missing non return/check valve and was wondering if your product will have the same issue in 30k-60k miles
Nick:







yes, it is also thicker, compared to the originals that crack and blow out,
Nick:







we have not seen that issue with this sku yet,
John:







Yeah, causing real problems, already ordered your product through carid.com I am hoping it resolves it. along with new pcv valve on valve cover I am getting.
John:







This is great news. I look forward to installing your product!
Nick:







sounds good
Nick:







thank you
John:







And I should be able to look in with a flashlight and see the nipple from the check valve down the pcv hose hole right?
John:







as right now I do not see it on mine, its gone completely
John:







like when I check it in a year or two
Nick:







correct, we have not seen ours fail in that aspect at all"
Hope this helps you all


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

Dorman and AcDelco parts are both on Rockauto. 

From comments from a senior member on the forum who hangs out at a dealership, the ACDelco part has been redesigned and has less failures than the older manifold design that included fuel injectors and the throttle body. 

The new ACDelco part is just the manifold. The Dorman was around $139 before the discount and shipping at Rockauto.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

carbon02 said:


> Dorman and AcDelco parts are both on Rockauto.
> 
> From comments from a senior member on the forum who hangs out at a dealership, the ACDelco part has been redesigned and has less failures than the older manifold design that included fuel injectors and the throttle body.
> 
> The new ACDelco part is just the manifold. The Dorman was around $139 before the discount and shipping at Rockauto.


It isn't redesigned. I've seen it in person. The only reason it has fewer failures is because it's so new and people haven't put enough time and miles on them in order for them to fail yet. Same story as the valve cover. GM simply doesn't care. Heck my original lasted me 4 years and ~60k miles and the manifold without accessories hasn't been out that long. There is nothing new about the check valve design; they simply made it cheaper by removing all the accessories. 

Dorman likes to tell us it's redesigned too but they're using the same check valve design as well. It will probably resist splitting better since some of the GM ones have split down the seam but I'm not holding my breath that the PCV part of it will be more reliable.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstahliv said:


> First I have been having issues since October. Got misfires, O2 senser readings, p0300 , p0302, and I am sure now that my PVC diaphragm failed yesterday , codes related to that. I changed Spark plugs, neg. batt. cable, ignition coil, and about to change intake manifold (the dorman, I am NOT mechanically inclined and can't do the fix but I wanted to, TY EXtreme), a new pcv hose, and valve cover all at once on wednesday at local garage. I spoke to Dorman as I wanted to make see what they said about the check valve in the new intake manifold and wanted to pass on what they said. This started as the infamous " service stabilitrak service traction control " error message.
> 
> "John:
> 
> ...


As I noted in my other reply above, my OEM valve failed at around *60,000 miles and 4 years*. I don't even think their intake manifold has been available for *4 months*, so they are wholly unqualified to say "we have not seen ours fail in that aspect," because theirs hasn't even existed long enough to make that kind of assessment. These are affected by both time *and *miles. They did not change the design in such a significant way that it will guarantee it will not fail, nor did their representative make any such guarantee to you. This is of course beside the fact that these start to leak if parts of the valve gets clogged due to the design. 

It is also thought that some of the reason these fail is because when the valve cover pressure regulator diaphragm fails, this allows the intake manifold to produce excess pressure on the crankcase, which places more stress on the check valve and causes it to get sucked through or break at the connection between the nipple and the diaphragm, which is still thin on the Dorman design. The valve cover otherwise regulates the amount of vacuum that the intake manifold can place on the crankcase.


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## carbon02 (Feb 25, 2011)

XtremeRevolution said:


> It isn't redesigned. I've seen it in person. The only reason it has fewer failures is because it's so new and people haven't put enough time and miles on them in order for them to fail yet. Same story as the valve cover. GM simply doesn't care. Heck my original lasted me 4 years and ~60k miles and the manifold without accessories hasn't been out that long. There is nothing new about the check valve design; they simply made it cheaper by removing all the accessories.
> 
> Dorman likes to tell us it's redesigned too but they're using the same check valve design as well. It will probably resist splitting better since some of the GM ones have split down the seam but I'm not holding my breath that the PCV part of it will be more reliable.


I didn't start this comment to argue, but please don't let the tone of this get off track. I simply pointed out another option for people that are looking for factory parts. That's all. 

I'm not going to quote the other thread, or the person who's a member who hangs out at a dealership. He's a longtime member, has a lot of vehicles, and I believe extreme you know who I'm talking about. I trust his opinion, that if he's saying the AcDelco unit was redesigned, and that they haven't seen dealership repeat failures or issues with the 2016 1.4L LUV like earlier engines, that GM may have figured something out.

I participate in Cruzetalk because we don't attack people or products, and positively communicate in a way to assist others. There's three ways to solve this issue, one is a kit which you sell, the other is two manifolds, one from AcDelco, and one from Dorman. Let's remove the assumptions the Dorman will fail, until we have verifiable proof of such failure.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

carbon02 said:


> I didn't start this comment to argue, but please don't let the tone of this get off track. I simply pointed out another option for people that are looking for factory parts. That's all.
> 
> I'm not going to quote the other thread, or the person who's a member who hangs out at a dealership. He's a longtime member, has a lot of vehicles, and I believe extreme you know who I'm talking about. I trust his opinion, that if he's saying the AcDelco unit was redesigned, and that they haven't seen dealership repeat failures or issues with the 2016 1.4L LUV like earlier engines, that GM may have figured something out.
> 
> I participate in Cruzetalk because we don't attack people or products, and positively communicate in a way to assist others. There's three ways to solve this issue, one is a kit which you sell, the other is two manifolds, one from AcDelco, and one from Dorman. Let's remove the assumptions the Dorman will fail, until we have verifiable proof of such failure.


I didn't start it to argue either, nor to discuss someone else's opinions. I'm stating what I have personally seen. The intake manifold is the same. The part number changed, like it did for the valve cover several times, which still continues to fail on a regular basis, but the check valve design is the same, and no I don't know who it is you're talking about nor do I understand why someone has to be referred with anonymity. 

To be clear, I have two check valve kits. I designed a new one somewhat recently that reduces cost to $85 for people who are looking to save some money on this repair, making it the cheapest option available by a big margin. 

Let's also remove the assumption that those manifolds won't fail, especially given *the design is the same,* until we have verifiable proof of reliability, 4-5 years from now.


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## jstahliv (Apr 13, 2016)

I just want my car fixed, doing new valve cover and intake today, as I am not mechanically inclined. I been having service stabilitrak and misfires since October and I am HOPING these check valves and pcv diaphragm are teh cause. Can anyone tell me if misfires and service stabilitrak could be due to the pcv diaphragm or intake check valve failure?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jstahliv said:


> I just want my car fixed, doing new valve cover and intake today, as I am not mechanically inclined. I been having service stabilitrak and misfires since October and I am HOPING these check valves and pcv diaphragm are teh cause. Can anyone tell me if misfires and service stabilitrak could be due to the pcv diaphragm or intake check valve failure?


Most likely not. That may be related to the negative battery cable issue. See here:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-g...al-coverage-14311-negative-battery-cable.html


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## jstahliv (Apr 13, 2016)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Most likely not. That may be related to the negative battery cable issue. See here:
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/25-g...al-coverage-14311-negative-battery-cable.html


Awesome, I did that fix as well. So far I replaced the ignition coil, new negative battery cable, new spark plugs, and today, new valve cover, new dorman intake manifold, and new pcv hose. Worked great and feel like I got my power back and sound is a little different from engine. LOVE IT. I hope I fixed both misfire/stabilitrak and pcv and all issues related to them all. I want to thank Cruzetalk and it's members for helping me on all these issues.


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## jstahliv (Apr 13, 2016)

update, Everything is perfect now with the mention fixes.


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## Dorman-Intake (May 22, 2018)

I'm happy to comment on this as I am the part of the development team here at Dorman that helped with the development of this manifold. The manifold actually has an insert in the tool the keeps the PCV Check Valve in place. No future failures will take place. The part is also made proudly in the USA and has undergone a vigorous testing cycle to insure great quality. I would be happy to share with anyone some photo's and 3D models of the fix we created. The part is now in stock all of the country and should be readily available same day. Thank you.





XtremeRevolution said:


> The description is useless, since they talk about coolant passages, which this intake manifold has none of. That was clearly copied off of another intake manifold.
> 
> As mentioned above, you still end up with a poor design for the PCV system that integrates a check valve that cannot be serviced. My PCV fix kit is currently $135 including the throttle body spacer, which saves you $30 over the Dorman design and will most likely last the life of the vehicle. Should that check valve need servicing, it can be done for $10-$20, not another $165.
> 
> Lastly, I've been wholly underwhelmed with the quality of Dorman parts in the last few years. I have some serious doubts about the reliability of that manifold. GM also released a manifold that has none of the bits that are normally bolted on and were charging $180-$210 for it depending on where you could find one.


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## Madbrā (Sep 18, 2019)

Dorman-Intake said:


> I'm happy to comment on this as I am the part of the development team here at Dorman that helped with the development of this manifold. The manifold actually has an insert in the tool the keeps the PCV Check Valve in place. No future failures will take place. The part is also made proudly in the USA and has undergone a vigorous testing cycle to insure great quality. I would be happy to share with anyone some photo's and 3D models of the fix we created. The part is now in stock all of the country and should be readily available same day. Thank you.



Can you possibly provide me with a current part number for the updated Dorman intake manifold?
(I have a 2011 Cruze 1.4t LTZ)
I don’t want to accidentally purchase one of the old intakes......

Thanks so much for your help!!!!


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

Madbrā said:


> Can you possibly provide me with a current part number for the updated Dorman intake manifold?
> (I have a 2011 Cruze 1.4t LTZ)
> I don’t want to accidentally purchase one of the old intakes......
> 
> Thanks so much for your help!!!!











Dorman Products - 615-380


Plastic Intake Manifold - Includes Gaskets




www.dormanproducts.com


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Just to make something clear, Dorman can't guarantee that the part will never fail. They've only covered one of the failure modes; the disappearance of the check valve. They haven't accounted for the fact that it still gets clogged and gummed up with PCV and oil deposits, causing it to either stick or leak, and still deteriorates over time and fatigue and cracks. I had a friend with a Dorman manifold that modified his to install my PCV fix kit and when he removed his check valve, he discovered it was cracked! 

Adding a block behind the check valve on a flawed design does nothing but give people a false sense of security that the check valve is working. Only a vacuum test on the crankcase and a boost leak test on the intake could actually verify that the check valve is working, and perfectly visible check valves on OEM manifolds so have failed one of those tests more times than I can count. It's a flawed design. 

Sent from my BlackBerry Key2 using Tapatalk


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## Kush (Jun 25, 2020)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Just to make something clear, Dorman can't guarantee that the part will never fail. They've only covered one of the failure modes; the disappearance of the check valve. They haven't accounted for the fact that it still gets clogged and gummed up with PCV and oil deposits, causing it to either stick or leak, and still deteriorates over time and fatigue and cracks. I had a friend with a Dorman manifold that modified his to install my PCV fix kit and when he removed his check valve, he discovered it was cracked!
> 
> Adding a block behind the check valve on a flawed design does nothing but give people a false sense of security that the check valve is working. Only a vacuum test on the crankcase and a boost leak test on the intake could actually verify that the check valve is working, and perfectly visible check valves on OEM manifolds so have failed one of those tests more times than I can count. It's a flawed design.
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry Key2 using Tapatalk


 Hello there,i have been following your discussion for a while now and i am impressed with you product.I bought a 2014 cruze from the US last year and it has been great only for the valve cover diaphram to fail,i have already replaced the valve cover but what i want to know is how can i buy your bypass product? I live far away in Ukraine (Europe) can it be exported form the US,until now the 1.4L turbo is not so common here but now there is alot in the market now,mechanics here are not yet familiar with this bypass.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Kush said:


> Hello there,i have been following your discussion for a while now and i am impressed with you product.I bought a 2014 cruze from the US last year and it has been great only for the valve cover diaphram to fail,i have already replaced the valve cover but what i want to know is how can i buy your bypass product? I live far away in Ukraine (Europe) can it be exported form the US,until now the 1.4L turbo is not so common here but now there is alot in the market now,mechanics here are not yet familiar with this bypass.


You can order it from cruzekits.com. I have a European shipping option available. 

Sent from my BlackBerry Key2 using Tapatalk


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

jstahliv said:


> I just want my car fixed, doing new valve cover and intake today, as I am not mechanically inclined. I been having service stabilitrak and misfires since October and I am HOPING these check valves and pcv diaphragm are teh cause. Can anyone tell me if misfires and service stabilitrak could be due to the pcv diaphragm or intake check valve failure?


Yes


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