# Racing a Diesel Cruze



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Hey all been driving my 2014 diesel cruze for a while now. Been ghosting cruzetalk.com for the same amount of time and figured why not get into the community more. 
Don't need the cruze as a daily driver any more, and have decided to go back into the track world 13 years later. With just the basic dpf delete and programming from fleece, the low end get go is pretty decent. I am getting the car ready for a track day at VIR in oct. It's always fun to put almost a stock commuter on track with cars that are supposed to be there..lol. I remember quite a few "commuter" cars dampening the ego of others. I have been out of the mix so long I am just going to start at the bottom of the HPDE ladder and go from there.
My intentions from this outing in october are to get a feel for where to go next with the modifications.
I think this car may be decent as it has basic get go and the parts are cheap.. I used to drive a 3000gt Vr4.. soooo. I am always pleasantly suprised at how cheap parts can be for the cruze.

I am also considering getting a second of these to turn into a dedicated track car. Due to having the experience of being a former mechanic and still a machinist wanna be, I may even go as far as serious engine work and possibly a better or twin turbo setup to keep the lag at min while giving higher top end.


If others are interested you are more that welcome to join me at VIR OCT 3-4. the event is put on by NASA. (national auto sport association-.. not the space one.) I believe there are still openings in the HPDE fields. From past experience beginners see huge increase even in their daily driving confidence and safety.

Company and advice are welcome and much appreciated.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I have a 15 diesel. With better tires it’s a great handling car. If fleece was still doing off road only tuned I’d get one so fast but **** EPA shut that down. Once we slow down at the hospital I have Bilstien B14 coilovers and shoreline rear sway bar ready to go it. You can get the 1.4T Cruze cheap for race use.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Fortunately I did get the delete before EPA went stupid. But if you know a good muffler shop you may or may not be able to get a piece bent and bungs welded in. As long as the sensors are there it seems to work fine but there are programmers still available. That if installed on a car with dpf still tend to plug up the dpfs quickly..... but if your cars dpf accidentally falls off.... then no problem. Of course this is all in theory
Yep coil overs and camber correction are on the list... also I got 225/50/17 which gives you a little more meat to the road without changing overall diameter.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Fortunately I did get the delete before EPA went stupid. But if you know a good muffler shop you may or may not be able to get a piece bent and bungs welded in. As long as the sensors are there it seems to work fine but there are programmers still available. That if installed on a car with dpf still tend to plug up the dpfs quickly..... but if your cars dpf accidentally falls off.... then no problem. Of course this is all in theory
> Yep coil overs and camber correction are on the list... also I got 225/50/17 which gives you a little more meat to the road without changing overall diameter.


The downpipe and such are the easy part. The problem is getting the software to delete the junk. There is someone I can get it from but it’s nearly 2k with downpipe and such.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Got back from vir.. the cruze did decent in the class I was in.. there was even a Ferrari challenge car in the group... Not the best in the group but decent for a commuter car.. got a lap time of 2:50 and was consistently there by Sunday. ( I started in the 3:30s) The trans was the weak link... Once hot it started a differential whine.. and it popped an engine code for .. I can't believe you are doing this to me..lol... Really the code was for converter stuck. It went away when the car cooled down and several key cycles. I'm gonna pull the valve body and give it a good cleaning and look into putting a bigger cooler on the trans. I also will be trailering the car next time as both me and the instructor felt I was holding back a little because I still needed a way to get home... As I make changes I will try to post and the results of said changes.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Got back from vir.. the cruze did decent in the class I was in.. there was even a Ferrari challenge car in the group... Not the best in the group but decent for a commuter car.. got a lap time of 2:50 and was consistently there by Sunday. ( I started in the 3:30s) The trans was the weak link... Once hot it started a differential whine.. and it popped an engine code for .. I can't believe you are doing this to me..lol... Really the code was for converter stuck. It went away when the car cooled down and several key cycles. I'm gonna pull the valve body and give it a good cleaning and look into putting a bigger cooler on the trans. I also will be trailering the car next time as both me and the instructor felt I was holding back a little because I still needed a way to get home... As I make changes I will try to post and the results of said changes.


Glad you had fun but yes don’t be a fool, don’t beat on your daily. Get a Miata or old crown Vic/mustang to race and trash.
At the auto X events I’ve tracked the diesel at I’ve never had trans heat problems. I’ve also kept up severe maintenance to a T including trans flush. Now granted auto X is say 2 run back to back then an hour cool down time. During which I leave hood open to allow heat out. So as usual auto X is way less abusive then long track.

as far as cooling I’d start on bypassing the transmission oil to water “cooler” in the radiator end tank. This “cooler” will only let the temps go as low as rad fluid and usually makes cooling worse. Plus it’s a big POF if the cooler leaks and gets antifreeze into the trans lines.

once bypassed you can add a bigger oil to air cooler, but be advised ours is rather large as is. Add a temp gauge into the line to see temp out of trans and temp into jt. This should shed light on how heavy the load is on the trans.

up front you can pop out the aero panels in grill that restricts airflow for efficacy sake. That should help quite a bit since even 20% more airflow is a lot. Then of course a higher grade fluid like amsoil SS should help and protect better when on the heat edge.

the aisin trans don’t have much in safety margins TQ wise so don’t expect it to hold up for that kind of abuse long.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

pandrad61 said:


> Glad you had fun but yes don’t be a fool, don’t beat on your daily. Get a Miata or old crown Vic/mustang to race and trash.
> At the auto X events I’ve tracked the diesel at I’ve never had trans heat problems. I’ve also kept up severe maintenance to a T including trans flush. Now granted auto X is say 2 run back to back then an hour cool down time. During which I leave hood open to allow heat out. So as usual auto X is way less abusive then long track.
> 
> as far as cooling I’d start on bypassing the transmission oil to water “cooler” in the radiator end tank. This “cooler” will only let the temps go as low as rad fluid and usually makes cooling worse. Plus it’s a big POF if the cooler leaks and gets antifreeze into the trans lines.
> ...


Its not my daily anymore, just drove it there, im gonna trailer it next time.. sort of want to drive something everybody looks at and says "your driving what"... and diesel to boot... what... it's a diesel? mustangs and miatas are a dime a dozen... trust me I was surrounded by them. tip: bring a diesel can because there is none at the track. Im actually thinking about buying a whole extra trans as they are not that expensive and having it on hand. Also Im researching what the OBD can out put to external gauges.. It seemed to only have real issues after heating up trans... I could take a cold lap in gears that would keep it cool and then it would get back to more normal operation.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Its not my daily anymore, just drove it there, im gonna trailer it next time.. sort of want to drive something everybody looks at and says "your driving what"... and diesel to boot... what... it's a diesel? mustangs and miatas are a dime a dozen... trust me I was surrounded by them. tip: bring a diesel can because there is none at the track. Im actually thinking about buying a whole extra trans as they are not that expensive and having it on hand. Also Im researching what the OBD can out put to external gauges.. It seemed to only have real issues after heating up trans... I could take a cold lap in gears that would keep it cool and then it would get back to more normal operation.


Ohh by drove I understood it’s a daily. Well if you’re ok with it financially then more power to ya. Mustangs and Miata are my go to sicne they are cheap to fix build and race. Our diesel only has 15k made so parts won’t be super easy or cheap to find.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The trans issues really only present themselves in normal driving - the neutral-stop solenoid in ours, when it is warm out, loves to basically force a neutral-slam off stop lights, and it has an occasional extremely harsh downshift - but that's obviously all just driving around normally. Those aren't things you'd really experience when racing.


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## MRO1791 (Sep 2, 2016)

shimmy816 said:


> Its not my daily anymore, just drove it there, im gonna trailer it next time.. sort of want to drive something everybody looks at and says "your driving what"... and diesel to boot... what... it's a diesel? mustangs and miatas are a dime a dozen... trust me I was surrounded by them. tip: bring a diesel can because there is none at the track. Im actually thinking about buying a whole extra trans as they are not that expensive and having it on hand. Also Im researching what the OBD can out put to external gauges.. It seemed to only have real issues after heating up trans... I could take a cold lap in gears that would keep it cool and then it would get back to more normal operation.


Under normal street use the Transmission fluid runs very hot on this car. More cooling for racing should be a priority. There is a great App by Snipesy on this forum called BiScan for GM, an and newer one call Gretio that can get you all kinds of PIDs for guages if you want them off the OBD2 / DLC port (you can find them on the Google Play store, and I think Gretio is also availible for Apple). PIDs Include Transmission Fluid Temperature. On my 2015 Cruze TD, it is pretty high under normal street use loads, well over 220F is not unusual, and I've seen 240s quite often. 

As I think you are already seeing, that Transmission is going to be the weak link, so anything you can do to protect it is going to be helpful in a racing situation.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Also, a large benefit to going to a larger, separate trans cooler, would be ridding the vehicle of those stock trans cooler lines (from the trans to the radiator trans cooler) - a known failure point (if ours fail again, that IS the route I will be going - it's both cheaper and far easier than replacing...those things...again).


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Finally figured out how to get video to upload... proof a cruze diesel can survive on track. Sorry it's unedited... if you count laps.. lap 4 is 2:50... not to shabby for a car where only mod is brakes.
To put it in perspective a mustang does about 2:15 lap. And yes I did make the instructor nervouse, maybe once.. lol . He was great. Shout out to Drew Black from Durham, NC


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

What tires are you running? Tires alone can absolutely transform a vehicle.

A buddy of mine used to run his A5 Jetta (with the 2.5L I5) at the college autocrosses we use to participate in, and all that car had was GLI suspension goodies and Hankook RS-3s (later on, Pilot Super Sports), and he was _always_ at the top of the list, even though it was a rather high speed course (we were on an 1/8th mile banked oval, and the infield). Granted, he had driver mod, but only light suspension and crazy sticky tires.


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

Running North course?


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Impressive.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

This was my auto cross run in the diesel. It was after I did the engine break in for the car. It was night and day from my 87 Supra T. It was way too quiet, trans if not in manual would always up shift during braking, and those junk LRR tires sucked. Fun however for my at the time new car.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> What tires are you running? Tires alone can absolutely transform a vehicle.
> 
> A buddy of mine used to run his A5 Jetta (with the 2.5L I5) at the college autocrosses we use to participate in, and all that car had was GLI suspension goodies and Hankook RS-3s (later on, Pilot Super Sports), and he was _always_ at the top of the list, even though it was a rather high speed course (we were on an 1/8th mile banked oval, and the infield). Granted, he had driver mod, but only light suspension and crazy sticky tires.


Absolutely tires can change the whole character of the car. When I ditched the LRR and went to sticky BFG performance all seasons it was night and day. On FWD I noticed slicks even when the car wants to plow they just grip. Sure scrubs tire but it really goes a long way smoothing driver error.


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## JDH (Dec 24, 2014)

shimmy816 said:


> And yes I did make the instructor nervouse, maybe once.. lol .


Did he get out of the car and walk off shaking his head the refuse to get back in for the next session so the chief instructor had to take his place? If not you're good.

After talking to the instructor the Chief (told me after the session) was going to ride a lap with me and tell me to go home. After the session he said he needed to go talk to the instructor instead. Seems that instructor wasn't used to being in Pony/Muscle cars with upgraded brakes.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

I wouldn't have gone to track day with a slushbox without a big external transmission fluid cooler. 

For those who can't get tunes, there is somebody here who can help you tune a 2.0 diesel track car, but I don't know if he will do it in the current EPA enforcement situation. He's posted in this thread this week, so maybe he can PM some advice to those in need.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Taxman said:


> I wouldn't have gone to track day with a slushbox without a big external transmission fluid cooler.
> 
> For those who can't get tunes, there is somebody here who can help you tune a 2.0 diesel track car, but I don't know if he will do it in the current EPA enforcement situation. He's posted in this thread this week, so maybe he can PM some advice to those in need.


Problem is the EPA situation. I’d love to get the proper tune for track use but hardly any leads.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

The tires are general g-max AS-05... they suprised both me and the instructor at how far they could be pushed.. granted I was being gentle because I had to drive the car home, but they were definitly pushed. It was full course, the only place he made any nervous sound was in hog pen when I came in to fast.. you can hear him... watch it watch it... whatchh it.. both me and him thought i was going for a field expidition but the tires held. I think suspension would help alot to.. felt like one of those wavy arm things sometimes, it also felt like floating on faster stretches. Though that could be an areo thing, maybe splitter will help keep some air from under the car? 
Nice run on the auto cross.. last time I did one in a dodge ram diesel. they had a box you had to stop in at the end, points subtracted if you blew it. As I came in the judge was literally diving out of the way because he thought I was gonna cross the line at the end of the stop zone hard.. nope stopped perfectly. for small tight autocross these cars are probaby awesome if the trans will behave.

On the delete thing... I know the avaliable programming jams up the dpf fast... what happens if you straight pipe the dpf but put all the sensors back in? maybe with some resistance in either to simulate that the dpf still is there?


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Minor correction instructors name is Duane Black..Not sure if I called him that there or not. He always responded..lol


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> The tires are general g-max AS-05... they suprised both me and the instructor at how far they could be pushed.. granted I was being gentle because I had to drive the car home, but they were definitly pushed. It was full course, the only place he made any nervous sound was in hog pen when I came in to fast.. you can hear him... watch it watch it... whatchh it.. both me and him thought i was going for a field expidition but the tires held. I think suspension would help alot to.. felt like one of those wavy arm things sometimes, it also felt like floating on faster stretches. Though that could be an areo thing, maybe splitter will help keep some air from under the car?
> Nice run on the auto cross.. last time I did one in a dodge ram diesel. they had a box you had to stop in at the end, points subtracted if you blew it. As I came in the judge was literally diving out of the way because he thought I was gonna cross the line at the end of the stop zone hard.. nope stopped perfectly. for small tight autocross these cars are probaby awesome if the trans will behave.
> 
> On the delete thing... I know the avaliable programming jams up the dpf fast... what happens if you straight pipe the dpf but put all the sensors back in? maybe with some resistance in either to simulate that the dpf still is there?


If you ditch the emissions and not tune for it then you’ll get a countdown that will slow you down to 10 miles an hour within 75 miles if I recall. The high speed floating I would think is the very under dampened shocks and struts. That or mileage, the suspension is made to be comfortable not responsive remember it is an economy car. Our diesel already has full underbody panels for smooth airflow so not much to improve. Me I’d cut some fender ducts to evac wheel well air, duct from the fog lights to the brakes, and a rear
Splitter in the rear since after axle to bumper it’s bare underbody.

I have a set of bilstien B14 coil overs to put in once things settle down. These are monotube design with much better spring rates and damping that and the white line rear sway bar to help with understeer.

thanks it was a good run for being a new car to me. What really threw me in the loop is having an automatic and a car that you can hardly hear when it wants to shift up. With my supra I could clearly tell exactly when the shift up instinctively. Same as my motorcycles


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## Ma v e n (Oct 8, 2018)

2:50 on the full course in an automatic diesel Cruze on middling all season tires is pretty good. That's nearly 70mph average speed. The production car lap record is 1:51 with Chevy engineers in a ZR1.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> The tires are general g-max AS-05... they suprised both me and the instructor at how far they could be pushed.. granted I was being gentle because I had to drive the car home, but they were definitly pushed. It was full course, the only place he made any nervous sound was in hog pen when I came in to fast.. you can hear him... watch it watch it... whatchh it.. both me and him thought i was going for a field expidition but the tires held. I think suspension would help alot to.. felt like one of those wavy arm things sometimes, it also felt like floating on faster stretches. Though that could be an areo thing, maybe splitter will help keep some air from under the car?
> Nice run on the auto cross.. last time I did one in a dodge ram diesel. they had a box you had to stop in at the end, points subtracted if you blew it. As I came in the judge was literally diving out of the way because he thought I was gonna cross the line at the end of the stop zone hard.. nope stopped perfectly. for small tight autocross these cars are probaby awesome if the trans will behave.
> 
> On the delete thing... I know the avaliable programming jams up the dpf fast... what happens if you straight pipe the dpf but put all the sensors back in? maybe with some resistance in either to simulate that the dpf still is there?


The differential pressure sensor will eventually get confused and cause a REP. That will be the first issue that pops up.

Without the DOC the vehicle will keep trying to Regen... And then fail as the temperatures don’t follow the predicted ramp... Also producing reduced engine power.

Simply put it’s more complicated than resistors. But for the p21dd DEF heaters you actaully can use resistors to spoof it.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> The tires are general g-max AS-05... they suprised both me and the instructor at how far they could be pushed.. granted I was being gentle because I had to drive the car home, but they were definitly pushed.


The higher-performance Generals do seem to have a fair bit of performance ability, especially for being very new tires to the market.

A buddy of mine has a '15 Camaro Z/28, and he's been tracking the thing on G-MAX RS UHP summer tires, and has been incredibly impressed how well they do. That's saying something, because those cars come from the factory with Trofeo Rs.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> The higher-performance Generals do seem to have a fair bit of performance ability, especially for being very new tires to the market.
> 
> A buddy of mine has a '15 Camaro Z/28, and he's been tracking the thing on G-MAX RS UHP summer tires, and has been incredibly impressed how well they do. That's saying something, because those cars come from the factory with Trofeo Rs.


Interesting to hear that. I’ve always been under the impression that general is kinda bottom shelf along with kunho. Oddly enough since general seems to be continental tire. I do tend not to really like continental however


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I think they're really coming into their own lately, but still without charging a fortune - the AltiMAX RT-43s are definitely one of the more well-rounded all-seasons out there - my brother could probably run his in snow on his Buick, as they have fairly decent snow performance, per Tire Rack ratings - but he runs AltiMAX Arctics, which are absolutely _beasts_ in the snow, and are dirt cheap.

I ran them on my Cavalier, and you could yank the parking brake while making a turn on snow (something that is always fun at low speeds making turns in the sub to drift the cars a bit - my dad used to do that all the time with his E-150 work van, albeit simply with throttle, since it was RWD) and the car literally would stay on the same path it was, it would just slow down. The back end would NOT come out - those things just grabbed. If I recall, they used old Nokian molds for their tires (looking back at the previous gen Nokian Hakkapeliitta at the time, they seemed to match), which is a great starting point, because Nokian.

They don't look to have a million different versions of tires in each category, and I think that allows them to properly focus on making each tire as best as it can be for the price.

I'm not usually a fan of Continental tires either...with the exception of the ExtremeContact DWS tires. Those are an absolutely outstanding high-performance all-season tire that does very well in snow (especially for an UHPAS tire). My father-in-law has a '14 Cadillac CTS, and he is getting ready for new tires here soon, and that was going to be one of my recommendations (he lives in NC, but eventually he, and the car, will be moving back to Michigan). The stock Bridgestone Potenza RE97 AS Runflats are both not great, and very expensive.

But honestly...the GMAS AS-05 is $46 cheaper a tire and looks to perform just as well in all categories - proven to be even track-worthy in this thread, so...


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

The general tires did make me question as you usually get what you pay for but them seemed to hold up well. Though on my list of wants and wishes is a set of track wheels one inch larger with hankook rs4 .. recommended for hpde. I just am doing research to find a wheel that will not add too much rotational mass over what I have now. I used to drive on 18s in a car that was stock 17 like this one... that 1 inch was a game changer in stability/sidewall flex.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I think they're really coming into their own lately, but still without charging a fortune - the AltiMAX RT-43s are definitely one of the more well-rounded all-seasons out there - my brother could probably run his in snow on his Buick, as they have fairly decent snow performance, per Tire Rack ratings - but he runs AltiMAX Arctics, which are absolutely _beasts_ in the snow, and are dirt cheap.
> 
> I ran them on my Cavalier, and you could yank the parking brake while making a turn on snow (something that is always fun at low speeds making turns in the sub to drift the cars a bit - my dad used to do that all the time with his E-150 work van, albeit simply with throttle, since it was RWD) and the car literally would stay on the same path it was, it would just slow down. The back end would NOT come out - those things just grabbed. If I recall, they used old Nokian molds for their tires (looking back at the previous gen Nokian Hakkapeliitta at the time, they seemed to match), which is a great starting point, because Nokian.
> 
> ...


My continental experience comes from the motorcycle tires. They are quality tires that are safe and reliable albeit they just don’t shine in any departments. The few continental car tires I have rode on have been the same. They are just background components and just that. The Michelin and BFG I ride on always feel so engaging and communicating of the road. Continental however are always a good deal price wise, plus them being safe quality is a good bet.
Yah I hear nothing but praise from nokian tires in snow. Definitely the bigger companies have too many tires in each segment. One of the reasons why I like BFgoodrich is they have less to go through


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

pandrad61 said:


> thanks it was a good run for being a new car to me. What really threw me in the loop is having an automatic and a car that you can hardly hear when it wants to shift up. With my supra I could clearly tell exactly when the shift up instinctively. Same as my motorcycles


That was something else I struggled with.. after driving a true manual that I could hear. Many times on track I "lost" where I was in the manual click settings. You would have to look down at the worst time to see where you were and get your mind to... i gotta click 3 times to get the gear I need... instead of just feeling the gates of the shifter.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> The general tires did make me question as you usually get what you pay for but them seemed to hold up well. Though on my list of wants and wishes is a set of track wheels one inch larger with hankook rs4 .. recommended for hpde. I just am doing research to find a wheel that will not add too much rotational mass over what I have now. I used to drive on 18s in a car that was stock 17 like this one... that 1 inch was a game changer in stability/sidewall flex.


I hold general and kumho on the same level. Mid grade, they are quality made and reliable but don’t shine in any department. Way better then Walmart tires not as good as BFG-mich-Bridgestone.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> That was something else I struggled with.. after driving a true manual that I could hear. Many times on track I "lost" where I was in the manual click settings. You would have to look down at the worst time to see where you were and get your mind to... i gotta click 3 times to get the gear I need... instead of just feeling the gates of the shifter.


100% same here. I was so odd. Even with automatic trans with paddles a normal gas 4-6-8 I can hear the engine so shifts come instinctively. The diesel I found myself bouncing off rev limiter and also having to search for the gear. If the 2.0 was super duty loud I could at least tell but it’s whisper quiet. Great in a daily not so much track.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

If anybody is interested here are the track days for the mid atlantic .. so far I am planning on the april at summit point and may at VIR.. If you can come its tons of fun look me up.

you can literally drive anything as long as it is reasonably safe in the HPDE 

March 19-21 VIR Full Course March Madness Racing, HPDE, TT, Comp. School, Test/Tune, I Clinic, Open Practice
April 17-18 Summit Point Spring Rumble Racing, HPDE, TT, Comp. Evaluation
May 14-16 VIR Full Course Lap Dance Racing, HPDE, TT, Comp. School, Test/Tune, I Clinic, Open Practice
June 26-27 Summit Point June Joust Racing, HPDE, TT, Comp. Evaluation, I Clinic
July 23-25 Pitt Race Regional Crossover Racing, HPDE, TT
August 14-15 VIR Full Course Unkefer Dash Racing, HPDE, TT, Comp. Evaluation
October 1-3 HyperFest VIR Full Course Racing, HPDE, TT, Comp. School, Test/Tune, I Clinic, Open Practice
October 30-31 Summit Point Fall Finale HPDE and TT only 

link is Mid Atlantic Region - National Auto Sport Association - these are for the mid atlantic region.

If you have any questions let me know


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Just got my ecu back from being unlocked.. It is still learning but I can tell it definitly has more top end the bottom end doesn't hit as hard. The tuner said the ecu needs to learn. Described it as a safety net. It sees the programming but doesn't know if its safe or not. Each time it runs a cycle it looks for errors if none the raise a little closer to the settings requested. I am waiting on a part to fix a boost leak that doesn't show till over 25 psi, and then we will be putting it on the dyno to tune it in more. And the 10 second overboost.. its avaliable full time. I have an edge cts to make sure I don't over do it.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Just got my ecu back from being unlocked.. It is still learning but I can tell it definitly has more top end the bottom end doesn't hit as hard. The tuner said the ecu needs to learn. Described it as a safety net. It sees the programming but doesn't know if its safe or not. Each time it runs a cycle it looks for errors if none the raise a little closer to the settings requested. I am waiting on a part to fix a boost leak that doesn't show till over 25 psi, and then we will be putting it on the dyno to tune it in more. And the 10 second overboost.. its avaliable full time. I have an edge cts to make sure I don't over do it.


What tuner and USA?


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Performance Engine Tuning and Dyno Facility | Tuning Tech FS


Tuning Tech FS is a premier tuning shop that specializes in performance tunes for BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota/Lexus, Range Rover, Mini, Volkswagen more.




tuningtechfs.com


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Performance Engine Tuning and Dyno Facility | Tuning Tech FS
> 
> 
> Tuning Tech FS is a premier tuning shop that specializes in performance tunes for BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota/Lexus, Range Rover, Mini, Volkswagen more.
> ...


Their site doesn’t have any Chevy tunes.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

he can tune anything. he unlocked and gave me a tune with no problem. for my 2014 cruze diesel .. the other night he had a mclaren on the dyno. The cars he has listed are ones he has frequent contact with. A lot of people with way more money than me send him things that are definitely not on those lists. Just give him a call or email I'm pretty sure he can help you. He has people send him ecus but if you are local and can go on the dyno you will get a much better tune.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> he can tune anything. he unlocked and gave me a tune with no problem. for my 2014 cruze diesel .. the other night he had a mclaren on the dyno. The cars he has listed are ones he has frequent contact with. A lot of people with way more money than me send him things that are definitely not on those lists. Just give him a call or email I'm pretty sure he can help you. He has people send him ecus but if you are local and can go on the dyno you will get a much better tune.


It’s always prefer a dyno tune. Where is he located?


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

If you head up there it seems sunday afternoons is the best time to find somebody there, and they are doing dynos. Let me know if you are going and I may be able to come up.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> 1654 Crofton Blvd, Unit E, Crofton, MD 21114 across the way from were the friendlys used to be if you are familiar with the area. If you head up there it seems sunday afternoons is the best time to find somebody there, and they are doing dynos. Let me know if you are going and I may be able to come up.


It’s a long drive from Florida but if the work is good.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

lol.. you can also send him ecu but dyno is always the best. Ironically he moved from florida. I will let you know how the tune works after dyno. I am working on fixing a boost leak before.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Got some ksport coil overs put on .. they handle like rails. may need to change to higher spring rate in front as the engine is heavier. Just for anybody out there yes the ksports are a direct fit on a diesel cruze. Worked with the manufacture some to figure out as they had never had anybody try. with the new coil overs and tune I think i will demolish my lap times... summit point is up first in april, I have no prior record there but VIR I know I will beat 2:50 my old best lap time. Before the car would sort of fall of on accel on the long straights after hiting 85-90 and only top out at 100. Now I can get to 110 rolling start from 40 which about what I should be able enter the straight with. Also got the trans cooler in so there is more confidence in that part of the equation. Props to Performance Engine Tuning and Dyno Facility | Tuning Tech FS Frank is a genius when I comes to ECUs.. if you are local check them out.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Got some ksport coil overs put on .. they handle like rails. may need to change to higher spring rate in front as the engine is heavier. Just for anybody out there yes the ksports are a direct fit on a diesel cruze. Worked with the manufacture some to figure out as they had never had anybody try. with the new coil overs and tune I think i will demolish my lap times... summit point is up first in april, I have no prior record there but VIR I know I will beat 2:50 my old best lap time. Before the car would sort of fall of on accel on the long straights after hiting 85-90 and only top out at 100. Now I can get to 110 rolling start from 40 which about what I should be able enter the straight with. Also got the trans cooler in so there is more confidence in that part of the equation. Props to Performance Engine Tuning and Dyno Facility | Tuning Tech FS Frank is a genius when I comes to ECUs.. if you are local check them out.


Yah the coils for the gas are the same for the Cruze. That’s why I went bilstien B14. Did you add the white line rear sway bar yet? Did that tuning place do a certain tune for off road use only?


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

No sway bar yet I was going to see what happens with the coil overs on track I can control over steer understeer to an extent through adjustments on just those its almost tight enough to debate a sway bar. Yes it would be better but I need to do one thing at a time as I am learning vehicle dynamics.. As to the tune... maybe...


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Finally got it dynoed ... Not to shabby.. adjusted hp for this dyno should put the crank close to 190 horse and 300 torque. Finally got a good reading on boost and we found what looks like a bad turbo, so my numbers should go up after replacing it.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

shimmy816 said:


> Finally got it dynoed ... Not to shabby.. adjusted hp for this dyno should put the crank close to 190 horse and 300 torque. Finally got a good reading on boost and we found what looks like a bad turbo, so my numbers should go up after replacing it.
> View attachment 291548


How does that compare to the OZ tune you had on it before?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

If the turbo is bad are you gonna replace with a rebuild and keep the VNT? Or swap to a well matched dual Bb type non vnt


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

I found the dyno specs of the original OZ tune cached in google. You can see how it compares to what you have now.

@2100 RPM: +73hp/183 lb-ft
@3000 RPM : +31hp/54 lb-ft
@3200-3800 RPM: +30hp/49 lb-ft 

There is a tuner in the Netherlands that said there is a Turbo for the 2010-2011 SAABs 9-5 A20DTH that is good for 220 HP. It "may be" compatible with ours. He quoted me $599 for the turbocharger if it will work. He said with supporting ECU programming the AF40 can work with that power level. If you want me to pass on the info send me a message.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I'm researching compressor maps to see if the other ones I have found will be an improvement or just move my sweet spot. I like the low end boost the oem one has but I would like a little more on top. 
this is one of the ones im looking at, somebody posted it on here before https://www.xmanturbos.com/product-...rger-for-gen1-chevy-cruse-2-0-di?currency=USD
Yes diesel4ever if you could pass info I will see what their maps are like... that is a really good price considering the oem is 1200 with a knock off at 800.. even with 100 for shipping that is a good price.


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## no66mac (Jan 27, 2021)

shimmy816 said:


> I'm researching compressor maps to see if the other ones I have found will be an improvement or just move my sweet spot. I like the low end boost the oem one has but I would like a little more on top.
> this is one of the ones im looking at, somebody posted it on here before GTB1756vk hybrid turbocharger for gen1 Chevy Cruse 2.0CDTi A20DTH | XmanTurbos
> Yes diesel4ever if you could pass info I will see what their maps are like... that is a really good price considering the oem is 1200 with a knock off at 800.. even with 100 for shipping that is a good price.


the turbo exergy had for my car , not installed was from ISI & ELDEN High Tech Turbo. still have the box it came in . I dont know how it would compare to what you are looking at , pics of it are in the post: 
*2014 2.0 diesel too much boost?*


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Just an FYI there are a whopping 4 people in the world who can tune the Gen 1 diese. Of which only 2 were somewhat successful. I’ll leave it an excercise to you to fill in the names.


Anyone else is going to be using the efi live cax. Anyone else not using the cax is eitheir scamming you or has no idea what they are doing. Or both.


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## no66mac (Jan 27, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> Just an FYI there are a whopping 4 people in the world who can tune the Gen 1 diese. Of which only 2 were somewhat successful. I’ll leave it an excercise to you to fill in the names.
> 
> 
> Anyone else is going to be using the efi live cax. Anyone else not using the cax is eitheir scamming you or has no idea what they are doing. Or both.


with the multiple codes I have from emissions on wifes car I am trying to decide what to do. If I were to dowload cax & put on FS3 will those files change what I currently have for where the turbo boost etc. is at or just lighten things up? her's is the 14 from exergy & mine is a 15 . mine is still stock you can definitely tell the responsiveness difference . they changed what it read for the boost slightly , adding a little on the low end and less on the upper


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

no66mac said:


> with the multiple codes I have from emissions on wifes car I am trying to decide what to do. If I were to dowload cax & put on FS3 will those files change what I currently have for where the turbo boost etc. is at or just lighten things up? her's is the 14 from exergy & mine is a 15 . mine is still stock you can definitely tell the responsiveness difference . they changed what it read for the boost slightly , adding a little on the low end and less on the upper


If you had the previous tune you can just work from that. Fleece uses EFI Live as well so that's all plug and play...


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## no66mac (Jan 27, 2021)

I don't have the previous tune on a tuner. I bought it already tuned about 1 1/2 months ago. they were working on keeping / leaving emissions like trifecta did I assume


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

no66mac said:


> I don't have the previous tune on a tuner. I bought it already tuned about 1 1/2 months ago. they were working on keeping / leaving emissions like trifecta did I assume


In that case its likely not much from stock anyway. The amount you can tweak and remain emissions compliant is.... Limited.. To say the least. The new turbo would have to be a vgt with similar profiles to the stock. Maybe a little bigger but that's nothing major.

Adding boost to the low end would have to be a performance thing. Less time needed to spin up when you floor it basically. Which could be amplified if you run a larger turbo. Of course you can make the VGT tables more aggressive to do this. And maybe it does that too.

Lowering boost at top end is kinda meh. I mean I always did it but its because I found the Cruze to build excessive boost all around. Boost could be lowered with proportional decrease in EGR and you would still meet NOx at more or less the same DEF dosage. Of course its all at a cost and that cost is higher temps and slightly more soot (like tiny amount).


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

shimmy816 said:


> I'm researching compressor maps to see if the other ones I have found will be an improvement or just move my sweet spot. I like the low end boost the oem one has but I would like a little more on top.
> this is one of the ones im looking at, somebody posted it on here before GTB1756vk hybrid turbocharger for gen1 Chevy Cruse 2.0CDTi A20DTH | XmanTurbos
> Yes diesel4ever if you could pass info I will see what their maps are like... that is a really good price considering the oem is 1200 with a knock off at 800.. even with 100 for shipping that is a good price.


I'm the one who posted the link to the Xman hybrid.

This is the info from KC perfomance. They are SAAB specialists in which the A20DTH was offered in Europe. I reached out to a number of tuners in Europe, they were the only ones who replied and in addition to being helpful they weren't annoyed to answer my questions.



> This engine can be remapped over 230hp, but the stock turbo won't go past 200hp.
> 
> We have upgrade turbos in stock for 235hp, we would need your turbos partnumbers to be sure its the right one.
> 
> ...








KCPerformance is under construction


Share the passion




kcperformance.eu


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

The tuner I am working with tunes bmw diesels.. he built the original tune file blind from his experience with those. When we got it on the dyno amazingly it was real close, he only tweaked it a little until I get my turbo fixed. I asked could he build a tune for non deleted, if somebody is in maryland or close he could do it. The only reason he could do mine is it is deleted just like his BMWs.

The biggest difference between the new tune an oz is they were more aggressive on the bottom end, we moved the whole curve to the right instead as on a track I am not starting from a dead stop. It is definitely wayy faster on the top side, and I didn't give up too much on the bottom, it feels like it is on the very edge of traction on the low side, before it would easily chirp starting, which is wasted energy anyways.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

The downside of oz, fleece and efi live ..they lock their files and the ecu.. I guess for proprietary reasons.  My tuner had to physically open and unlock the ecu, return it to stock with a oem file, and then built it from there. Now my ecu is wide open and can be tweaked all I want. If there are only three or four tuners in the world that can tune these, he is definitely one of them. and I think he could easily do it with a non deleted car too he just needs to actually put one on the dyno. Like I stated in the above post if you live in MD it would be interesting to see what he could do to a stock one.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> The downside of oz, fleece and efi live ..they lock their files and the ecu.. I guess for proprietary reasons. My tuner had to physically open and unlock the ecu, return it to stock with a oem file, and then built it from there. Now my ecu is wide open and can be tweaked all I want. If there are only three or four tuners in the world that can tune these, he is definitely one of them. and I think he could easily do it with a non deleted car too he just needs to actually put one on the dyno. Like I stated in the above post if you live in MD it would be interesting to see what he could do to a stock one.


So he stole the fleece tune and made some random changes. I see.

If that’s okay with you well.... You be you.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

nope snipesy... if you read what I wrote. He returned it to stock and built the file from there. He looked at theirs said it was okay but was heavy on the bottom end. Due to what I am doing with the car I don't need all the power at the bottom like they had it. It's good for seat of the pants 0-60 but when the slowest track speed is maybe 35 their tune doesn't make sense for me. He built if from scratch from the stock oem file, there apparently is a database of stock tunes out there. 
He actually takes the ecu out of the car and writes directly to it on the bench in the hex code or whatever it is called. It's stacks of numbers, you gotta know what your doing because it is the base programming for the car not some shell. It's not anything like you're thinking that can be copied and pasted.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> nope snipesy... if you read what I wrote. He returned it to stock and built the file from there. He looked at theirs said it was okay but was heavy on the bottom end. Due to what I am doing with the car I don't need all the power at the bottom like they had it. It's good for seat of the pants 0-60 but when the slowest track speed is maybe 35 their tune doesn't make sense for me. He built if from scratch from the stock oem file, there apparently is a database of stock tunes out there.
> He actually takes the ecu out of the car and writes directly to it on the bench in the hex code or whatever it is called. It's stacks of numbers, you gotta know what your doing because it is the base programming for the car not some shell. It's not anything like you're thinking that can be copied and pasted.


Unplug the MAF sensor. Turn key on. And tell me how many seconds it takes for the CEL to turn on after the initial self test.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

why?


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> why?


Why do you think?


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

snipesy just say what it's for, I honestly have no idea what you are trying to prove.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

summit point in two days... I'm excited to see how the car does now that I have a trans cooler, coil overs, and custom tuning.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Turned a 1.41 time at summit point I think that is good for my car but not sure. My friend brought his c6 corvette and turned a 1.35 best for the weekend. It was like a yoyo with him. If we started close I would be right on him in the turns or pulling away while in the turns....but... then he would power out and pull away on the straights.
Biggest fix from the weekend gotta bleed all my brakes, I thought I could get away from issues as I just did them last fall. Guess I was wrong. Made it almost all the way through the weekend before squishyness started becoming an issue at the end of a 110 straight with pretty much a hard right 180 degree turn. I kept having to move my initial braking marker further and further back. I may look into putting the ATS calipers and the redrilling rotors for the increased size just to bleed more heat or at least spread it out more. I will also be adding brake duct cooling as there is a clear path from where my fog lights should be to the inside of the wheel wells.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Turned a 1.41 time at summit point I think that is good for my car but not sure. My friend brought his c6 corvette and turned a 1.35 best for the weekend. It was like a yoyo with him. If we started close I would be right on him in the turns or pulling away while in the turns....but... then he would power out and pull away on the straights.
> Biggest fix from the weekend gotta bleed all my brakes, I thought I could get away from issues as I just did them last fall. Guess I was wrong. Made it almost all the way through the weekend before squishyness started becoming an issue at the end of a 110 straight with pretty much a hard right 180 degree turn. I kept having to move my initial braking marker further and further back. I may look into putting the ATS calipers and the redrilling rotors for the increased size just to bleed more heat or at least spread it out more. I will also be adding brake duct cooling as there is a clear path from where my fog lights should be to the inside of the wheel wells.


If I recall the caddie brembo calipers will run bolt in with impala police cruiser rotors


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

you may be right pandrad. there is a brake upgrade post that is pretty lengthy. I am reading through it now. That is where i saw the cady reference, but I havn't found the impala rotors yet. Also sent to zzp site and saw the larger kit for cruzes have caddy calipers but they are out of stock otherwise I would have just bought the kit.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

You wouldn't need to re-drill ATS rotors, they have the same bolt-pattern.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> You wouldn't need to re-drill ATS rotors, they have the same bolt-pattern.


If o recall the problem was the ATS rotors didn’t center right on our cars caliper wise so the police impala rotors did with no drilling. I wish I could find the brembo wrote up


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> If o recall the problem was the ATS rotors didn’t center right on our cars caliper wise so the police impala rotors did with no drilling. I wish I could find the brembo wrote up


Right, but with ATS Brembos they should, right?

We've got pretty big brakes as it is, I'm not sure more rotor on the stock single-piston sliding caliper would really be beneficial, aside from just weighing more rotationally.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Right, but with ATS Brembos they should, right?
> 
> We've got pretty big brakes as it is, I'm not sure more rotor on the stock single-piston sliding caliper would really be beneficial, aside from just weighing more rotationally.


From the write up I recall could be wrong, that the brembo caddie calipers need to be used with the police interceptor impala rotors to be perfectly centered on the caliper and without drilling a rotor.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Finally had a chance to pull off brakes. They are the prostop z23. They actually did pretty good on brake fade only started to show a little toward the end of the day, but only made it through 4 track days total. the inside actually wore a little ramped on the pads as found one of the caliper slides was sticking. I would use them again if I needed something quick and avaliable, I will probably stock a pair when I go to the track for a complete meltdown fix. Replacing all fluid with motol as I did find some moisture in the fluid after only the two weekends.

That being said I am going to try the hawk hp plus pads not looking for more wear resistance but I would like a little less fade over time. I hopefully will be able to meet up with my friend at VIR that has some temperature tell paint. the pads should be good up to 700. If I find I'm going over that I will probably switch to a different compound I was just trying to keep pads that are reasonable if I need to move the car on the street say to the alignment shop or something.. trailering everywhere can be a pain.
Also just got done with the first side putting on brake duct cooling.. put it in the what did I do to my cruze today.. I got the fog light bezels for my car and am just putting it through those for now. If somebody has a better idea how to fit it to front of car let me know. Ran the ducting under the car through suprisingly open space to the wheel well and put a 3 inch hole through that and zip tied the .... out of it to the side of the A arm, will probably get some metal straps when I go to the store tomorrow. Checked to make sure no rubbing all the way to both stops. cut just a little bit out of the dust shield and bolted the bracket to the caliper bracket bolt. I thought I would have issues with the axle but its not even close to rubbing the tire or axle.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Finally had a chance to pull off brakes. They are the prostop z23. They actually did pretty good on brake fade only started to show a little toward the end of the day, but only made it through 4 track days total. the inside actually wore a little ramped on the pads as found one of the caliper slides was sticking. I would use them again if I needed something quick and avaliable, I will probably stock a pair when I go to the track for a complete meltdown fix. Replacing all fluid with motol as I did find some moisture in the fluid after only the two weekends.
> 
> That being said I am going to try the hawk hp plus pads not looking for more wear resistance but I would like a little less fade over time. I hopefully will be able to meet up with my friend at VIR that has some temperature tell paint. the pads should be good up to 700. If I find I'm going over that I will probably switch to a different compound I was just trying to keep pads that are reasonable if I need to move the car on the street say to the alignment shop or something.. trailering everywhere can be a pain.
> Also just got done with the first side putting on brake duct cooling.. put it in the what did I do to my cruze today.. I got the fog light bezels for my car and am just putting it through those for now. If somebody has a better idea how to fit it to front of car let me know. Ran the ducting under the car through suprisingly open space to the wheel well and put a 3 inch hole through that and zip tied the .... out of it to the side of the A arm, will probably get some metal straps when I go to the store tomorrow. Checked to make sure no rubbing all the way to both stops. cut just a little bit out of the dust shield and bolted the bracket to the caliper bracket bolt. I thought I would have issues with the axle but its not even close to rubbing the tire or axle.
> View attachment 291862


Hawk does not make brake pads for the diesel, i’ve called them and they only make it for the gasoline cruise. The only option for performance brake pads other than what you have are Porterfield r4-s.

the duct you did is exactly how I was thinking of doing mine. However ATM I’m thinking of putting in off road LED cubes there for better lighting.



:: #1 Race Specialist in The World :: �


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I also forgot to mention, those brake ducts won’t do much without seal plates. Yah they will take a good bit of fab but they will truly force air into the rotor where it’s needed.









Proper Brake Cooling Is Essential for Safety and Lower Lap Times - NASA Speed News Magazine


A photograph of glowing orange brake rotors blazing away through fast-spinning spokes is truly an awesome sight. That is, unless the car in the photo is yours, because brakes lose their ability to slow the car when they are too hot, and because you will have to pay for replacement pads and...




www.google.com


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

pandrad61 said:


> Hawk does not make brake pads for the diesel, i’ve called them and they only make it for the gasoline cruise. The only option for performance brake pads other than what you have are Porterfield r4-s.
> 
> the duct you did is exactly how I was thinking of doing mine. However ATM I’m thinking of putting in off road LED cubes there for better lighting.
> 
> ...


That's odd that they say they don't I just installed the first side of hawk hp plus and it fits fine as far as I can tell.. maybe I'm missing something? I will post the part number when I get a chance. I found a page that list a bunch of race compounds available in hawk.. will post that too. 
Yep I realize I won't get optimum cooling without some serious fab work. I got the end of the duct plate only about and inch from the rotor.. anything is better.. I feel like I was close to fade point so this might be just enough to keep the temps from going over .. from experience it is not a good feeling when you go over....effort goes way up and stopping goes way down. Also I was thinking if anybody knows some kind of decoupling material that would be suitable for the back of the pads it would help with temperature in the fluid. I found a site for it but nothing for our cars.. they used titanium plates to help disapate heat.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I presume you're not running the OE wheels, right?


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Diesel OE wheels everything fits.. as long as it sits back far enough as the calipers it's fine.

For those of you wondering here is the part number for 2014 Diesel Hawk HP plus pads.. HB706 N.714

This info can be found on Hawks own webpage at:


Parts Lookup



do your year make model sub model=ltz and then notes= diesel. I know weird but it is under ltz then diesel that's probably why no one can find it. including hawk tech themselves?..lol

avaliable in that list are all the below for front and rear.

performance ceramic
DTC-30
hps 5.0
HPS
DTC-60
HP+
DTC-70

grab the part number and then go shopping at other sites.. Their website is usually higher.

if anybody has a hard time finding it let me know.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Diesel OE wheels everything fits.. as long as it sits back far enough as the calipers it's fine.
> 
> For those of you wondering here is the part number for 2014 Diesel Hawk HP plus pads.. HB706 N.714
> 
> ...


I called those assholes and asked them for a part # to get them from their dealer. They told me for the diesel calipers that are shared with the Verano they didn’t offer anything. Hawk was my go to before someone told me porter field made them.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

I wanted to from the get go to use hawk HPS 5.0 since they have longer rotor wear and a slight edge on stopping power vs the PC ceramics. But they told me they didn’t make them. I’m glad you found the part numbers.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

can't find good help..lol

I was thinking about using dtc 30 ...look at their curve they are still good from 100 to 1200 granted it is less braking power but still decent... there has got to be some trade off. I was going to ask around at the track... most of the race compounds are no good at lower till about 400 ( which you could get to quick) but their high is way higher than street... thats why I'm questioning dtc30... its almost too good...

If anybody has input on the dtc30 from hawk?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> can't find good help..lol
> 
> I was thinking about using dtc 30 ...look at their curve they are still good from 100 to 1200 granted it is less braking power but still decent... there has got to be some trade off. I was going to ask around at the track... most of the race compounds are no good at lower till about 400 ( which you could get to quick) but their high is way higher than street... thats why I'm questioning dtc30... its almost too good...
> 
> If anybody has input on the dtc30 from hawk?


I haven’t used their higher temp stuff as I stick to auto X where even street pads are fine. The diesel hs pretty powerful calipers for being single pot so even if it’s lower friction maybe you could make up a bit with higher pressure to a degree. If you Use light weight rims you should also be able to take a load of the brakes. Easier to slow the wheel.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> Diesel OE wheels everything fits.. as long as it sits back far enough as the calipers it's fine.


I was mostly asking because I expect, due to their design, they'll hold a bit more brake heat in.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I was mostly asking because I expect, due to their design, they'll hold a bit more brake heat in.


When i did mountain runs I could feel a lot of heat in the rims. Normal but not good plus heavy.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> When i did mountain runs I could feel a lot of heat in the rims. Normal but not good plus heavy.


Yup - the combination of the stock wheels and the Xi3s make carrying the winter wheels up from the basement a good bit heavier than carrying the MSRs with Fuel Maxes up in spring. The stock wheels are definitely a few pounds heavier, but I believe them to be more aerodynamic. That said, since they don't have a "ton" of opening, I'd expect the MSRs to let the brakes "breathe" a lot more.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I gotta get a set of track tires sooner or later do you recommend any rims?


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> I gotta get a set of track tires sooner or later do you recommend any rims?


Not too much offered in the diesel lug pattern. The Buick Verano has som e really nice sport rims that look great and should be less weight


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Not too much offered in the diesel lug pattern. The Buick Verano has som e really nice sport rims that look great and should be less weight


I didn't have too much of an issue finding ours - MSR had plenty in a 5x115. 

Something lighter than stock and maybe with a touch less positive offset - I think our MSR 013s are a +38mm offset and weigh about 17 lbs? Pushes the wheels/tires out a bit more, which both looks a bit better and obviously increases track width a smidge.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

MP81 said:


> I didn't have too much of an issue finding ours - MSR had plenty in a 5x115.
> 
> Something lighter than stock and maybe with a touch less positive offset - I think our MSR 013s are a +38mm offset and weigh about 17 lbs? Pushes the wheels/tires out a bit more, which both looks a bit better and obviously increases track width a smidge.


The only 17lb 17" wheel that is strong enough for daily driving is the Enkei PF01 and they are not offered in 5x115. Any lightweight 17" that IS NOT flow formed or forged will bend easily and not last with normal road hazards and will utterly fail with road racing

While researching wheel options for the Cruze diesel, The Velox Rifle was the "Best" wheel available in 17" and 18". Best meaning it is rotary forged construction and relatively lightweight at 21 and 23 Lbs. Unfortunately I did not like the machined face finish on my White Cruze so I went with the American Racing AR928 which comes in black.

So being in a race setting the Velox Rifle would be the best option for sturdy construction and weight. Discount Tire | Tires and Wheels for Sale | Online & In-Person


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I was just guessing based on what I remembered (hence, you know, the question mark) - from what I can find based on the manufacturer specs, they are 18.2 lbs.

Done just fine on horrible Michigan roads for _years_. Nor did I recommend them for road racing, either.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

For brakes, I just got the Powerstop K5555 kit installed. It's much better than the OE brakes at or near the limit. No idea about longevity but for less than $400 bucks for vented, slotted and drilled rotors and ceramic pads it's a nice upgrade.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Summit point april with the Ksport installed... whole different animal. still working out suspension settings but it seems the front about half and the back at full compression helps alot with the under steer.


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

shimmy816 said:


> View attachment 292042
> 
> Summit point april with the Ksport installed... whole different animal. still working out suspension settings but it seems the front about half and the back at full compression helps alot with the under steer.


Mine oversteered after I installed the big Whiteline rear sway bar. Better tires stabilized the rear while driving aggressively.

What are your F/R camber settings for racing ?


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I haven't messed with the camber settings from stock. It would probably help. I will get to it at some point but I am not trying to change too much at a time, so I don't get lost in what works or what doesn't. This will be the first time with the new suspension back at VIR so now I have a reference and will play with the settings of the front up and down and see if it changes for better or worse. My goal other than even better lap times is to see if my trans and brake mods have solidified the car. No trans overheating and no brake fade is the goal. Also I had a good instructor that got me to start noticing the vehicle dynamics under brake release timing and adding throttle. Done right it actually helps with the understeer as front compression release, I guess rebound, can be used to gain traction to the front. I'm hoping to get a front wheel drive instructor too.. they are sort of rare, but there is definitly a difference in how corners can be attacked.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> I haven't messed with the camber settings from stock. It would probably help. I will get to it at some point but I am not trying to change too much at a time, so I don't get lost in what works or what doesn't. This will be the first time with the new suspension back at VIR so now I have a reference and will play with the settings of the front up and down and see if it changes for better or worse. My goal other than even better lap times is to see if my trans and brake mods have solidified the car. No trans overheating and no brake fade is the goal. Also I had a good instructor that got me to start noticing the vehicle dynamics under brake release timing and adding throttle. Done right it actually helps with the understeer as front compression release, I guess rebound, can be used to gain traction to the front. I'm hoping to get a front wheel drive instructor too.. they are sort of rare, but there is definitly a difference in how corners can be attacked.


The diesels absolutely grips like a cracked up ape when the front corner is loaded under brake and turn in. For short and snappy turns it makes a huge difference in getting the front end to point.

brake dynamics feel great but what absolutely ruins the diesel is the piss poor fueling and throttle lag. It makes total sense for MPG but to get throttle quick to help pull the car out of corners….. you have to basically predict the throttle lag.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

VIR 2:42 lap time 8 seconds faster than last october. and a I totally blew turn 1 ..lol already looked at my data from the day and my fastest sector time would let me get a 2:37 if put the best together so... gotta get all the good parts together. also cutting straight across the curbs should help a couple of seconds.

The car was solid with no brake or trans issues. I figured I would get a little fade toward the end of the second day but the ducts may have just been enough to fix that probelm. The trans cooler and replacing whatever is in the pan before each weekend seems to have helped there. Also I am getting more familiar with how it will act at speed... when to shift to avoid the dreaded shift denied.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> VIR 2:42 lap time 8 seconds faster than last october. and a I totally blew turn 1 ..lol already looked at my data from the day and my fastest sector time would let me get a 2:37 if put the best together so... gotta get all the good parts together. also cutting straight across the curbs should help a couple of seconds.
> 
> The car was solid with no brake or trans issues. I figured I would get a little fade toward the end of the second day but the ducts may have just been enough to fix that probelm. The trans cooler and replacing whatever is in the pan before each weekend seems to have helped there. Also I am getting more familiar with how it will act at speed... when to shift to avoid the dreaded shift denied.


I hate shift denied with a passion


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Did you get a new tune and dyno with the Xman hybrid turbo installed?


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Did you get a new tune and dyno with the Xman hybrid turbo installed?


nope haven't had a chance yet... but my top speed is 10 mph faster in both straights at the same points...there is a little lag but definitely more upper on the butt dyno. Im wondering how much more just gotta get time...  summer is started and track season is on..lol


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Summit Point main


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> Just an FYI there are a whopping 4 people in the world who can tune the Gen 1 diese. Of which only 2 were somewhat successful. I’ll leave it an excercise to you to fill in the names.
> 
> 
> Anyone else is going to be using the efi live cax. Anyone else not using the cax is eitheir scamming you or has no idea what they are doing. Or both.


I don't know where you got that from bud, my gen 1 diesel is custom tuned making more power than you are. Don't know who told you ONLY 4 can tune them, I can go to a couple of guys and they tune my car themselves.
The dyno figures are at the wheels and in KW and NM, I'm using stock turbo, stock cooler, only deleted with a straightpipe and cold air intake.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Jeank851 said:


> I don't know where you got that from bud, my gen 1 diesel is custom tuned making more power than you are. Don't know who told you ONLY 4 can tune them, I can go to a couple of guys and they tune my car themselves.
> The dyno figures are at the wheels and in KW and NM, I'm using stock turbo, stock cooler, only deleted with a straightpipe and cold air intake.
> 
> View attachment 292668


Thats a different vehicle.


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## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> Thats a different vehicle.


How?

















And also ask your 1 of 4 tuner to add in a hardcut or popcorn limiter, it'll help you to realise if you hitting redline plus it sounds awesome


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Jeank851 said:


> How?
> 
> View attachment 292670
> View attachment 292671
> ...


Different engine (probably) . Different assembly. Completely different computer. EPA stuff.


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

Snipesy said:


> Different engine (probably) . Different assembly. Completely different computer. EPA stuff.


mine is older than yours. You guys only have twin cam, mine is single cam 16V, same block different head, only difference on the motor, bud I suggest you find a different tuner as your making barely more power, I've got a 70hp tune on mine and a consistent HP curve all the way from 1700rpm through to 4500rpm and I'm running 3psi above stock. I made more power than you just by doing the delete and the straightpipe without a tune.

As you mentioned they had to bench your ecu, same with mine.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)




----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Jeank851 said:


> mine is older than yours but we have the same ecu, I've assisted a guy in the states to get him in contact with a tuner in SA so he can have his tuned by my tuner and his ecu is the same as mine using your engine. You guys only have twin cam, mine is single cam 16V, same block different head, only difference on the motor, bud I suggest you find a different tuner as your making barely more power, I've got a 70hp tune on mine and a consistent HP curve all the way from 1700rpm through to 4500rpm and I'm running 3psi above stock. I made more power than you just by doing the delete and the straightpipe without a tune.
> 
> As you mentioned they had to bench your ecu, same with mine.


Maybe I’m not being clear enough.
👇👇👇👇👇👇👇

Please for the love of god... 
*Do not send a key component of your car across the ocean.*

👆👆👆👆👆👆👆

Dont do it. I don’t want your sob email. Thanks.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Jeank851 said:


> I don't know where you got that from bud, my gen 1 diesel is custom tuned making more power than you are. Don't know who told you ONLY 4 can tune them, I can go to a couple of guys and they tune my car themselves.
> The dyno figures are at the wheels and in KW and NM, I'm using stock turbo, stock cooler, only deleted with a straightpipe and cold air intake.
> 
> View attachment 292668


different car lol


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

It helps that I have two ECU.. my kid is close to starting to drive.. and no way am I letting him near the race ecu.. he reminds me of myself too much... 😆


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

boraz said:


> different car lol


How is it a different car please explain this seeing as you guys are so clever. We've got 2 chev cruze diesel models, one with the twin cam head and one with the single cam like mine, same block, same ecu on both motors. I can take either one of the two to any reputable diesel tuner here and he'll be able to tune it for me.

So please explain how there is ONLY 4 tuners available since you guys seem to know all about these cars yet you barely able to make more power than stock even having twin cam and bigger stock turbo as an advantage


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Jeank851 said:


> How is it a different car please explain this seeing as you guys are so clever. We've got 2 chev cruze diesel models, one with the twin cam head and one with the single cam like mine, same block, same ecu on both motors. I can take either one of the two to any reputable diesel tuner here and he'll be able to tune it for me.
> 
> So please explain how there is ONLY 4 tuners available since you guys seem to know all about these cars yet you barely able to make more power than stock even having twin cam and bigger stock turbo as an advantage


GM copied their Duramax LML ecm software to work on the NA Cruze. It’s extremely different from the standard euro Bosch stuff.

Why? Don’t know. Don’t care anymore. You’ll have to ask GM.


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Jeank851 said:


> same block


That's like saying a 302, 327 and 350 are basically the same because they use the same block.

They're not.

Also, there are technically three entirely different 2.0L diesels in the Cruze. 2011+ got the GM Family Z diesel, replacing the VM RA 420 (in '08-'11 Cruzes), and if I recall correctly, the 2.0L LUZ in the NA diesels is actually based off the 1.9L JTD, not the RA 420.

@Snipesy is probably one of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to the diesels on this forum, _especially_ in regards to the computer/tuning.


----------



## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

My 2009 Korean-built diesel JG Cruze has a "LLW" engine in it.

And yes, the ECUs are not swappable between the various models, the Oz-destined ECU in mine is programmed differently to the ECU in the same vehicle sold in EMEA.


----------



## Boathook36 (Apr 4, 2021)

shimmy816 said:


> I asked could he build a tune for non deleted, if somebody is in maryland or close he could do it.


I'm somewhat close at a 2.5 hour drive time. Your description of the ECM being "unlocked" is encouraging. I'm primarily tuning to circumvent the random "reduced power" events and to be better equipped to troubleshoot during component failures. Ours will break 300K miles within a year and I'd love to take it over 500K miles.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

grs1961 said:


> My 2009 Korean-built diesel JG Cruze has a "LLW" engine in it.
> 
> And yes, the ECUs are not swappable between the various models, the Oz-destined ECU in mine is programmed differently to the ECU in the same vehicle sold in EMEA.


We tried swapping the software 2.0L in the LUZ (NA Diesel) with the equivalent 2.0L in Europe. It doesn't work. Different CPUs. Same family yes. But nope. Small difference made it incompatible.

The NA version while it has the same blocks, same parts. That ECM... It was made specific for the NA market from the ground up using the latest Bosch had to offer at the time. If I had to hazard to guess its probably due to the SCR system being more or less a copy cat of the LML SCR. And it was easier to just copy the Duramax than whatever nonsense Bosch was pushing. (Remember at this time SCR was barely a thing in Europe)

The Euro version is obviously based off of some generic bosch program, used in BMWs, Volkswagen, etc.... its amazingly simple to tune and I wish we had such easy to use stuff here in the USA.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

bosch builds like 90 percent of the ecus in the world or something like that. They are getting request from car manufactures now to make their ecus brick when they sense tuning.. something about a check sum from one of the computers in the car... just a heads up. The local tuner had it happen to a amg mercedes that had just had a software update... so it is recent. Apparently has been in europe longer than here as they knew exactly what did it when he reached out to them.. moral of the story is if you wanna get your ecu tuned on a new car you may have to get a seperate new ecu with a software version that is older that what does the brick thing.. he wasn't sure how many manufactures are doing this yet. I because they don't want to cover warranty on a car that has be programmed outside of their limits... i get it.... but where is the fun in not pushing it. lol


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Snipesy said:


> Maybe I’m not being clear enough.
> 👇👇👇👇👇👇👇
> 
> Please for the love of god...
> ...



just curious snipesy.. do you have an interesting story to go with this warning. If so it sounds like it could be a doozy.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> just curious snipesy.. do you have an interesting story to go with this warning. If so it sounds like it could be a doozy.


Not me. But some people who have came to me after the fact.

Opening the ECM is not a nice nice ordeal. Even just removing the ECM from the car has a high chance of breaking pins.

And then you add a 2 week or longer shipping to the mix. Its recipe for disaster. What if when you get it back it doesn't work? Send it back? Now you wait 2 more weeks... And then 2 more.

And then customs seize it because its missing the declaration packet/invoice. Maybe you'll get a phone call to fix it but don't count on it.

Or maybe it just sits at the ISC for 2 months because they cheap out on shipping (cheaper shipping = back of the line).

ECMs in particular look awfully suspicous under x ray. Which is probably why they are so many problems. They will be inspected basically 100% of the time.


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## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

Snipesy said:


> ECMs in particular look awfully suspicous under x ray. Which is probably why they are so many problems. They will be inspected basically 100% of the time.


Should we point out that too much ionising radiation is bad for electronics in general?


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

It sounds like basically if you aren’t deleted by now it’s not gonna happen. What a shame.


----------



## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

grs1961 said:


> Should we point out that too much ionising radiation is bad for electronics in general?


They don’t care. Meanwhile US border patrol and TSA stop maybe like 1% of smuggling.


----------



## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

Snipesy said:


> They don’t care. Meanwhile US border patrol and TSA stop maybe like 1% of smuggling.


i remember after 9/11 the first day the sweetgrass, mt border crossing had their gamma ray? scanner for semi trucks setup...the FIRST truck they scanned had ~300 dogs in the 53' reefer trailer, stacked up in cages....huskies and lassie collie dogs...the first truck.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

yep it can be iffy I know anything from over seas can have issues... that's why when I bought that exman turbo i was surprised when it show up by the end of the week and the packaging wasn't destroyed...It was from england... not china... everything from there is trashed...lol


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I'm feeling a little confused ... don't know how I feel as I just picked up a cheap bmw 355D to use for track. Still diesel but stock 265hp and 410torque. tuner turned me onto it as should be able to safely get it to around 400 hp and 800 torque. A little more pep on track.. I will probably still run the cruze and my son is close to track age and is already drooling to get his hands on it for track. Still remember his ... ohhh sh..... face..lol


----------



## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

We’re still waiting for dyno numbers on that Xman hybrid turbo. You’re probably the only person in NA that has one installed.

I want one but really want to see what the benefits are and if it meets the claim of 220-230 hp.


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

Diesel4Ever said:


> We’re still waiting for dyno numbers on that Xman hybrid turbo. You’re probably the only person in NA that has one installed.
> 
> I want one but really want to see what the benefits are and if it meets the claim of 220-230 hp.


Do you guys not have access to people who can hybrid the stock turbo?


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> I'm feeling a little confused ... don't know how I feel as I just picked up a cheap bmw 355D to use for track. Still diesel but stock 265hp and 410torque. tuner turned me onto it as should be able to safely get it to around 400 hp and 800 torque. A little more pep on track.. I will probably still run the cruze and my son is close to track age and is already drooling to get his hands on it for track. Still remember his ... ohhh sh..... face..lol


Doesn’t mean a thi


Jeank851 said:


> Do you guys not have access to people who can hybrid the stock turbo?


not really. It’s a engine that’s very rare va say a 350 or a LS. so the folks that can do the work would charge quite a big premium. Doing one off work is never cheap.


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

pandrad61 said:


> Doesn’t mean a thi
> 
> not really. It’s a engine that’s very rare va say a 350 or a LS. so the folks that can do the work would charge quite a big premium. Doing one off work is never cheap.


Its cheaper for me to have my stock turbo sent in to be made into a hybrid than importing a ready made product, the guy I'm going to use guaranteed a safe boost pressure of 2bar


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Jeank851 said:


> Its cheaper for me to have my stock turbo sent in to be made into a hybrid than importing a ready made product, the guy I'm going to use guaranteed a safe boost pressure of 2bar


I don’t doubt your shop can and will. I’m saying many times when it’s not a popular set up it costs more.


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## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

pandrad61 said:


> I don’t doubt your shop can and will. I’m saying many times when it’s not a popular set up it costs more.


Luckily we don't have the EPA breathing down our necks. There's a couple of guys here that built a 1.9 from vw to run 6500rpm on a daily basis


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Id


Jeank851 said:


> Luckily we don't have the EPA breathing down our necks. There's a couple of guys here that built a 1.9 from vw to run 6500rpm on a daily basis


 love for the EPA to pipe down. They come down hard on diesel but give a pass to gasoline engines. Off clogged catalytic converter? Don’t worry about that CE light vs us it’s a slow down to uselessness


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

pandrad61 said:


> Id
> 
> love for the EPA to pipe down. They come down hard on diesel but give a pass to gasoline engines. Off clogged catalytic converter? Don’t worry about that CE light vs us it’s a slow down to uselessness


They have nothing better to do man


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Jeank851 said:


> They have nothing better to do man


They do, I just think the Diesel Bros are such gigantic douches they focused right in on them and won't stop.


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

MP81 said:


> They do, I just think the Diesel Bros are such gigantic douches they focused right in on them and won't stop.


I only saw the other day how the Diesel Bros added to the troubles you guys have with the EPA. Look what they explained was a valid point, emissions systems on diesels are a load of bullshit, they clog easily, fail even more often and it lowers the overall lifespan and performance, on gasoline cars it doesn't to that extent cuz they not recycling exhaust through the motor like the egr does. But they did however delete all their trucks to the extent to get noticed.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> They do, I just think the Diesel Bros are such gigantic douches they focused right in on them and won't stop.


Agreed. Those dicks and the red neck (apparently red neck one word is a bad word on here now?) phase/culture decided rolling coal was cool. Now it drew so much attention the epa is cracking down. Either way I didn’t like that diesel needed DEF and gas didn’t have similar restrictions


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Agreed. Those dicks and the red neck (apparently red neck one word is a bad word on here now?) phase/culture decided rolling coal was cool. Now it drew so much attention the epa is cracking down. Either way I didn’t like that diesel needed DEF and gas didn’t have similar restrictions


Well, gasoline doesn't have nearly the NOx emissions that diesel does - it's really driven by compression ratio.

However, what gasoline (specifically direct gasoline injection) _does_ have is massive particulate issues. That's why GPFs are becoming popular in Europe. Fully expect them to make their way here soon.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I know... im slacking I am going to the dyno soon gotta see what I can do with my new project and I will see what the new turbo does... it definitely has more top end even without tuning.. Oh and I have to put a new cv/axle in as it decided it didn't like summit point last saturday.... easy fix... cheap part.....nobody had one till monday.... sigh..
I haven't really looked into it much but the only difference is in the intake side... can't these be mixed and matched? and then change the cartridge?


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> Well, gasoline doesn't have nearly the NOx emissions that diesel does - it's really driven by compression ratio.
> 
> However, what gasoline (specifically direct gasoline injection) _does_ have is massive particulate issues. That's why GPFs are becoming popular in Europe. Fully expect them to make their way here soon.


Yah I know the emission isn’t equal but I feel diesel is way more stringent on their emissions as a whole. Vs gas is. I don’t see any gasoline engines being reduced speed


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> Yah I know the emission isn’t equal but I feel diesel is way more stringent on their emissions as a whole. Vs gas is. I don’t see any gasoline engines being reduced speed


Oh, wholly agree there.

My Cobalt has a perpetual rear O2 sensor code (I have a high-flow cat, but it doesn't "see" that it's there) and I can do whatever I please. 

But God forbid the Cruze have a _sensor_ go bad. Car is operating fine, sensor is just reading incorrectly...better limit my speed to do...what?


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

shimmy816 said:


> I know... im slacking I am going to the dyno soon gotta see what I can do with my new project and I will see what the new turbo does... it definitely has more top end even without tuning.. Oh and I have to put a new cv/axle in as it decided it didn't like summit point last saturday.... easy fix... cheap part.....nobody had one till monday.... sigh..
> I haven't really looked into it much but the only difference is in the intake side... can't these be mixed and matched? and then change the cartridge?


 What you can do is install a billet wheel on the cold side. Hot side won't work with billet wheel for some or other reason. You can change the core to a higher spec one as long as you can still bolt your wheel housings to it. One of two ways to go, install n better core or even ballbearing core, you'll be seeing boost as soon as you put your foot down from the line and you'll never break it, upgrading the turbo core with one that has a thicker shaft is normally wat we do in our lovely southern part of africa. Then you can also install bigger wheels on hot and cold side, turbo will need less rpms to produce the same amount of boost, that equals a turbo that can handle more boost or the same amount just more reliably. Quite simple really


----------



## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

A little 60km/h to 160km/h

186hp and 363ft-lb at the wheels


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

summit point main 6-25 before cv joint let lose


----------



## TheRealHip (Sep 1, 2014)

The cruze looks like its' pretty flat going thru the corner. Not leaning like the car behind her....


----------



## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Looking **** hot at an angle like that. No body roll FTW.


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

coil overs full tight rear.. 2/3 tight front.. and the car tracks almost where you want it. very little understeer


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Hyperfest coming up down a VIR oct 2-3. The grids are full but they have all kinds of stuff to do. Ride-alongs in regular cars and drift cars and off road too.. I think there are even helicopter rides and power wheel racing.. Tons of fun... If anybody makes it look me up car 803... cruze or bmw.. not sure which one yet.. sorting out some stuff on both.









H Y P E R⚡F E S T


the AUTOMOTIVE AMUSEMENT PARK /// Drifting + Time Attack + 3 Stages of Music + Road Racing + Rally + Ridealongs + Car Show + Camping + Music + Power Wheels + more...




www.hyper-fest.com


----------



## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Hyper-fest was awesome... tons of fun the next one is in may so if you can get to VIR you need to come out.

Moved to HPDE 2 ... so I guess I don't have anymore excuses for driving like a total newbie...lol

Time for VIR is now down to 2:39.. top speed is 119.. both those are because I am finding better lines.... next is getting the nerves up to go faster in some places I am letting up on the throttle that I know I can go way faster in.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 at any point did you install a front and rear strut bar? I’m thinking about it to combo with the coil overs and rear sway bar.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I actually met another Cruze driver at VIR in oct. He had a custom front brace... lets just say he had alot of time on his hands. 
I don't have any bracing at all. No sway bar either. I'm sure if I installed all of them it would cut times, but for now I found with the coil overs and tire pressure changes the car is almost neutral when it comes to under/over steer. Oddly enough I learned some tips on adjustments from a team that was racing a Honda Oddesy. Not my picture but this is the same guys from the track..funny but they are in same class as miatas.


----------



## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> I actually met another Cruze driver at VIR in oct. He had a custom front brace... lets just say he had alot of time on his hands.
> I don't have any bracing at all. No sway bar either. I'm sure if I installed all of them it would cut times, but for now I found with the coil overs and tire pressure changes the car is almost neutral when it comes to under/over steer. Oddly enough I learned some tips on adjustments from a team that was racing a Honda Oddesy. Not my picture but this is the same guys from the track..funny but they are in same class as miatas.
> 
> 
> ...


if you do ever get the rear sway bar or any strut bars let us know. I know they supposedly make a big effect when pushing hard in corners. Not so much on daily use, strut bars do look cool too lol


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pandrad61 said:


> if you do ever get the rear sway bar or any strut bars let us know. I know they supposedly make a big effect when pushing hard in corners. Not so much on daily use, strut bars do look cool too lol


I'd expect the rear swaybar to make a big impact on daily driving if you have any number of roundabouts - it was certainly night and day on my Cobalt for that, but especially for AutoX...it just makes the most impact (at least with as big of a bar as I have) if you have a _lot_ of grip up front.

The rear lower chassis bar (UR) did make a small but noticeable improvement, especially considering the price.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I have the front sway bar but never put it in as apparently you have to drop the sub frame.. I may do it someday. my garage is tied up with my other track car. we think it jumped timing wouldn't even start on liquid glow plug. I am in process of pulling it and will probably rebuild whole engine depending on what we find.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

MP81 said:


> I'd expect the rear swaybar to make a big impact on daily driving if you have any number of roundabouts - it was certainly night and day on my Cobalt for that, but especially for AutoX...it just makes the most impact (at least with as big of a bar as I have) if you have a _lot_ of grip up front.
> 
> The rear lower chassis bar (UR) did make a small but noticeable improvement, especially considering the price.


Yah I’m sure the rear sway would be a huge difference. But I’d love to hear how coil overs no sway would feel vs sway-coils-and strut bars. I have the coils and sway bar rear, Would the strut bars be worth the $$


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

The Bilstein B12 Pro kit and Whiteline rear sway bar made my car oversteer with the stock 215/55R17 V-rated tires and wheels. Now with 225/50R18 Z-rated no oversteer. I’m running -1.5 deg camber on all 4 corners for fender/tire clearance as well. 

When are we gonna see a dyno sheet with the X-MAN hybrid turbo?



shimmy816 said:


> I actually met another Cruze driver at VIR in oct. He had a custom front brace... lets just say he had alot of time on his hands.
> I don't have any bracing at all. No sway bar either. I'm sure if I installed all of them it would cut times, but for now I found with the coil overs and tire pressure changes the car is almost neutral when it comes to under/over steer. Oddly enough I learned some tips on adjustments from a team that was racing a Honda Oddesy. Not my picture but this is the same guys from the track..funny but they are in same class as miatas.
> 
> 
> ...


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> The Bilstein B12 Pro kit and Whiteline rear sway bar made my car oversteer with the stock 215/55R17 V-rated tires and wheels. Now with 225/50R18 Z-rated no oversteer. I’m running -1.5 deg camber on all 4 corners for fender/tire clearance as well.
> 
> When are we gonna see a dyno sheet with the X-MAN hybrid turbo?


I got the B14 kit and rear sway ready to go. I got BFG sport comp 2 AS. Hopefully the car will be neutral/little oversteer. I am tired of plow and got to get that rear end to rotate a bit.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

pandrad61 said:


> I got the B14 kit and rear sway ready to go. I got BFG sport comp 2 AS. Hopefully the car will be neutral/little oversteer. I am tired of plow and got to get that rear end to rotate a bit.


It won’t react like you expect. It was abrupt oversteer not gradual. In my case the stability control would take over when the rear would start moving. It was scary.

I have Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ on it now and it’s planted. I’ve never seen the SC come on since the wheel and tire upgrade.

Whiteline also makes poly bushings for the front control arms. I recommend you buy the ones that come with new arms as it is a PITA to remove the OE bushings. Replacing the plastic front sway bar links with new steel units from MOOG, Proforge or Mevotech is also something worth doing while your down there. Mevotech also makes camber bolts for the front struts.

I never tried driving with the stability control turned off. I think that would be a bad idea and probably wouldn’t try it if I were you.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> It won’t react like you expect. It was abrupt oversteer not gradual. In my case the stability control would take over when the rear would start moving. It was scary.
> 
> I have Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ on it now and it’s planted. I’ve never seen the SC come on since the wheel and tire upgrade.
> 
> ...


I drive 100% of the time with SC and TC off. The car chassis even stock handles really well with good tires. Unfortunately the throttle is so **** slow to respond that it’s a challenge unless you anticipate it’s lag. Hoping the trifecta tune helps negate some artificial computer throttle lag.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

pandrad61 said:


> I drive 100% of the time with SC and TC off. The car chassis even stock handles really well with good tires. Unfortunately the throttle is so **** slow to respond that it’s a challenge unless you anticipate it’s lag. Hoping the trifecta tune helps negate some artificial computer throttle lag.


Wow that’s crazy. Good luck with that. I had VW TDIs before the Cruze and I thought they were more nimble and tight, especially the MKV Jetta with multilink rear end. This 2014 Cruze stock reminded my of driving a turbo diesel Buick sedan.

I read the throttle response with the Trifecta tune isn’t linear. I got the OZ tune, it’s mostly midrange power 2000-3500 rpm. The torque feels the same at 70% vs 100% throttle but at full throttle it revs higher and shifts at 4500. 

You shouldn’t brake or accelerate in a hard turn, it reduces your dynamic grip.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> Wow that’s crazy. Good luck with that. I had VW TDIs before the Cruze and I thought they were more nimble and tight, especially the MKV Jetta with multilink rear end. This 2014 Cruze stock reminded my of driving a turbo diesel Buick sedan.
> 
> I read the throttle response with the Trifecta tune isn’t linear. I got the OZ tune, it’s mostly midrange power 2000-3500 rpm. The torque feels the same at 70% vs 100% throttle but at full throttle it revs higher and shifts at 4500.
> 
> You shouldn’t brake or accelerate in a hard turn, it reduces your dynamic grip.


I’ve never had an issue with TC/SC off. To me it’s more predicable with them off. The car then does what I say Vs the computer intervention that’s unknown. Even in the track I’ve never felt the need for stability control. The car isn’t soo fast or twitchy it gets out of hand.

I didn’t think OZ was still doing diesel tunes. Onlylegal options are trifecta ATM. The extra power will be nice but I’m more looking forward to the better trans tune and a more responsive throttle. I know it will never be liter bike with carbs good but stock GM throttle sucks.

min turns a lite brake or throttle I use to change the cars attitude. Absolutely big brake and throttle inputs don’t equal a good corner.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

pandrad61 said:


> I’ve never had an issue with TC/SC off. To me it’s more predicable with them off. The car then does what I say Vs the computer intervention that’s unknown. Even in the track I’ve never felt the need for stability control. The car isn’t soo fast or twitchy it gets out of hand.
> 
> I didn’t think OZ was still doing diesel tunes. Onlylegal options are trifecta ATM. The extra power will be nice but I’m more looking forward to the better trans tune and a more responsive throttle. I know it will never be liter bike with carbs good but stock GM throttle sucks.
> 
> min turns a lite brake or throttle I use to change the cars attitude. Absolutely big brake and throttle inputs don’t equal a good corner.


OZ is gone. They had 2 tunes. I got the OZ emissions intact 30 hp tune with tire size correction and top speed limiter removal. Ordered in late summer 2019 right before their website went dark. It was shipped and then their site was 404 a couple days later. Probably got the last one. Crazy.

You may be able to have trifecta disable the TC/SC if you don’t want it on.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

Diesel4Ever said:


> OZ is gone. They had 2 tunes. I got the OZ emissions intact 30 hp tune with tire size correction and top speed limiter removal. Ordered in late summer 2019 right before their website went dark. It was shipped and then their site was 404 a couple days later. Probably got the last one. Crazy.
> 
> You may be able to have trifecta disable the TC/SC if you don’t want it on.


I just manually turn it off by the button. It stays off while driving. Even on the LRR tires with it off there was little intervention vs on. To GM compliment their controls are well made for most and turn off easily


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

I saw somebody mention trans tunes.. I haven't done it yet but level 10 in new jersey does a trans mod that was mentioned in a magazine. I contacted them cost 800 and he said basically it will shift when you tell it no delay no debate it will just go... its on you not to blow it up.. also they said they can but more engine braking in it.. wasn't sure about it but they did it to race cars from europe and they were happy with it. I got other priorities right now but when I get some resources free I will probably get my valve body modded.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> I saw somebody mention trans tunes.. I haven't done it yet but level 10 in new jersey does a trans mod that was mentioned in a magazine. I contacted them cost 800 and he said basically it will shift when you tell it no delay no debate it will just go... its on you not to blow it up.. also they said they can but more engine braking in it.. wasn't sure about it but they did it to race cars from europe and they were happy with it. I got other priorities right now but when I get some resources free I will probably get my valve body modded.


I would absolutely love that kind of trans tune. However I could see it causing faster wear on the transmission. It was not designed for fast shifting, hell sport quick shifting may be as far as it goes.

kinda ticked me off the trifecta tune doesn’t remove the shift denied crap, or the into neutral at a stop.

In theory the Cruze could engine brake using the VNT turbo like the Colorado.I don’t see it doing all that much for us however.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

the engine braking for racing makes sense as you should either be on the throttle or braking ... there is no in between. I find my self fighting my instincts on this all the time, just have to rember the car will perform way past my comfort zone.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

shimmy816 said:


> the engine braking for racing makes sense as you should either be on the throttle or braking ... there is no in between. I find my self fighting my instincts on this all the time, just have to rember the car will perform way past my comfort zone.


Well diesel by their nature don’t have much pumping loss so a traditional engine brake of downshift isn’t as prominent. I just don’t know how much the VNT exhaust brake will change the driving dynamics. I’m curious how the lemans Audi turbo diesel handled engine braking


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Still rockin the diesel cruze on track. Figured out I may need to switch to actual track tires as I am starting to out-drive the street ones, literally put a years worth of track 
wear on in one weekend.... sigh... but so worth it. Turned a 1:28 at NJMP Lightning. One of the other guys came up to tell me my car was smoking..lol.. and then the look on his face when I told him it was a diesel.. priceless. This car dominates in the curves and then looses out to the long straights to the big boys. Very frequently it is pressuring them through the curves on their bumpers, several finally give point bys as they know I will be right back on their bumper when we hit the next turn. Next track is VIR for hyperfest in May would love to see some other cruzes out there... hint.... hint..


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Just got back from Hyperfest... whot whot... It was awesome. Knocked a little more of my time at VIR down to 2.37. some of the video shows holding with the faster cars in the corners.. this car is awesome in rain too..

Also hit the speed limiter on the car on the back straight.. 124mph... it even gave me a dash nasty gram saying I had reached it..lol


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## TheRealHip (Sep 1, 2014)

That was cool


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## mkohan (Dec 19, 2015)

nice run!!!


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## Jeank851 (Jun 10, 2021)

Not wanting to open a new thread just for a video.

I have been building a fun little daily with my euro spec diesel using the VM Motori RA 420 Sohc

here is a link of a test hit I did just after doing hybrid turbo, big front mount intercooler and SMF with semi coper clutch.
Not yet tuned for the hybrid however, just wanted to take it out and see what she feels like and if everything is working as it should before getting the tune done.





should be getting the new tune done this weekend finally and up the boost to roughly 1.7bar from the now 1.3


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## MrLuau1776 (8 mo ago)

shimmy816 said:


> Hey all been driving my 2014 diesel cruze for a while now. Been ghosting cruzetalk.com for the same amount of time and figured why not get into the community more.
> Don't need the cruze as a daily driver any more, and have decided to go back into the track world 13 years later. With just the basic dpf delete and programming from fleece, the low end get go is pretty decent. I am getting the car ready for a track day at VIR in oct. It's always fun to put almost a stock commuter on track with cars that are supposed to be there..lol. I remember quite a few "commuter" cars dampening the ego of others. I have been out of the mix so long I am just going to start at the bottom of the HPDE ladder and go from there.
> My intentions from this outing in october are to get a feel for where to go next with the modifications.
> I think this car may be decent as it has basic get go and the parts are cheap.. I used to drive a 3000gt Vr4.. soooo. I am always pleasantly suprised at how cheap parts can be for the cruze.
> ...



Can you send me a stock file?
looking to getting a custom tune and my issue is i need a stock file


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## MrLuau1776 (8 mo ago)

Im looking for a custom tune but i need the stock file first


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

MrLuau1776 said:


> Im looking for a custom tune but i need the stock file first


had a tune in the car that was locked I will look for the tuning box..it may have the stock tune on it, I know my sct for my truck keeps it and exchanges it... but I have not seen box for a long time. When I went to an actual custom tuner, he had to unlock it and get stock tune. That in turn got over written with current tune. I don't have a stock tune as he did not keep it.... but he had to get the stock tune from some where ... I think there is a data base... if some one wants to speak up that is in the know luau would probably appreciate it.


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## Rebooter (Mar 27, 2020)

I autocross my BMW 335d, it's a BLAST. Especially with a new Bilstein suspension.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

yep rebooter.. I just finished rebuilding my 335d track build... sort of wary of it though going from about 170hp / 290tq front wheel cruze to 350ish hp/ 450ish torque rear wheel drive... kick in the pants no pun intended... before i rebuilt with tune on and nannies off it would kick out real easy. if you don't mind me asking are you east coast mid atlantic reboot..? would love to have partners in crime on track..


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## Rebooter (Mar 27, 2020)

shimmy816 said:


> yep rebooter.. I just finished rebuilding my 335d track build... sort of wary of it though going from about 170hp / 290tq front wheel cruze to 350ish hp/ 450ish torque rear wheel drive... kick in the pants no pun intended... before i rebuilt with tune on and nannies off it would kick out real easy. if you don't mind me asking are you east coast mid atlantic reboot..? would love to have partners in crime on track..


No, I'm in the Inland NW of Montana.


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## shimmy816 (Aug 22, 2020)

Yep suspension wakes these cars up.. I have full coil over Ksport setup. The adjustability has helped as I learn overtime what works better for tracks with higher or lower speed turns. I am getting ready to turn it over to my son for his track use as I move to the Bimmer.


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## Vsandmnv (5 d ago)

I wanted to ask since you were racing yours Rebooter. Have you used any coatings for your exhaust side of the turbo? For that matter what would a custom exhaust manifold be worth it and have someone fab one up?


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