# Using your iPhone as a NFC enabled car key?



## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

I keep seeing articles that say it would work with the phone dead. They don't say how you would interface with it or anything. I'm assuming it would turn into like passive entry with the button on the door handle, and still be able to active the ignition which I assume would have to be push button.

Willing to bet it'll have some growing pains, but kind of a cool idea.


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

You've been carrying keys since you got your driver license.

How is carrying a fob different?


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> You've been carrying keys since you got your driver license.
> 
> How is carrying a fob different?


How is carrying a key fob different than a wallet you’re asking ?


My license fits in my minimal slim wallet that weighs very little and is soft enough to conform to the curve of my pocket.

My Cruze key fob doesn’t clip on my belt keychain because of its weight, because it doesn’t sit on the key chain between the other three keys straight and is always brushing on my hand as I walk. It also adds significant weight to the keys and is about twice as thick as my wallet. Why wouldn’t I want to ditch the key and gain the ability to use my phone, when my phone is with me all the time? 

Why wouldn’t you want to use your phone as a replacement to carrying your Cruze key fob around?


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## snowwy66 (Nov 5, 2017)

My fob sits on my pants pocket. Just like my keys have always done since 1982. When I started driving.

The only difference with the fob. It never comes out cept for changing pants.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

snowwy66 said:


> My fob sits on my pants pocket. Just like my keys have always done since 1982. When I started driving.
> 
> The only difference with the fob. It never comes out cept for changing pants.


It sounds like that’s been working out for you, I wouldn’t change your method.

To be fair, I was more curious about enabling NFC phone access similar to a key fob and not so much where I should physically carry my key.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

I'd be really leery of using my phone as a NFC to enter and start my car. Too many vulnerabilities in both iOS and Android.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

obermd said:


> I'd be really leery of using my phone as a NFC to enter and start my car. Too many vulnerabilities in both iOS and Android.


Because this technology is still new, I’m more interested precisely in HOW this will work and IF it’ll work for our car. And a bit less interested in key carrying methods or personal stances on the topic

I know our key is NFC based, I wonder what the learning process looks like for a phone? There’s also the possibility that our gen 2 Cruze’s aren’t going to be compatible 


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## PolarisX (Dec 17, 2017)

I do have to agree that the Cruze keyfob is way oversized for no reason. My friend has a Focus ST and his keyfob is a much more acceptable size to me.


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## Thebigzeus (Dec 2, 2018)

obermd said:


> I'd be really leery of using my phone as a NFC to enter and start my car. Too many vulnerabilities in both iOS and Android.


Oh, you mean all the breaches with Apple Pay and Androids alternative over the past 3-5 years? /sarcasm


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Keeping the discussion focused to the original topic, does anybody know more about the frequency in GHz the fob works on?


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## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

Nope, you can't use the NFC, I used it in Europe a lot but it is for "close" transfers, usually for transferring pictures between phones (in contact to each other) or payments to the devices
*NFC* is a set of short-*range* wireless technologies, typically requiring a separation of 10 cm or less. *NFC* operates at 13.56 MHz on ISO/IEC 18000-3 air interface and at rates ranging from 106 kbit/s to 424 kbit/s.
The range for NFC is increasing today but I'm not aware (yet) about a phone with a bigger range than ~4 inch..


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

CRUISE-CRUZE said:


> Nope, you can't use the NFC, I used it in Europe a lot but it is for "close" transfers, usually for transferring pictures between phones (in contact to each other) or payments to the devices
> *NFC* is a set of short-*range* wireless technologies, typically requiring a separation of 10 cm or less. *NFC* operates at 13.56 MHz on ISO/IEC 18000-3 air interface and at rates ranging from 106 kbit/s to 424 kbit/s.
> The range for NFC is increasing today but I'm not aware (yet) about a phone with a bigger range than ~4 inch..


Are you confirming that the gen 2 Cruze’s aren’t going to be compatible with apple’s new CarKey? I use nfc every day for a key card and it would be nice to have the option 


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## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

Too early for that statement since this is not released yet and the key word is "may"! If I have to put a bet I'd say no, not a chance! The frequency should match with the car, the range is questionable, then it will be easy to hack. For future cars, maybe but I won't count on this Apple release (when??) to get my car unlocked via phone.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

CRUISE-CRUZE said:


> Too early for that statement since this is not released yet and the key word is "may"! If I have to put a bet I'd say no, not a chance! The frequency should match with the car, the range is questionable, then it will be easy to hack. For future cars, maybe but I won't count on this Apple release (when??) to get my car unlocked via phone.
> View attachment 285453


We’ll just have to see when 13.4 is released, should be early-mid March. Range isn’t an issue for me personally, just like my badge at work, I don’t really ever need to be further than a few inches away to open the door so that doesn’t bother me much. Fingers crossed


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## CRUISE-CRUZE (Nov 8, 2010)

The issue would be that I don't think the receiver is into the door but somewhere to the center console so low range may not work. I guess will see what't coming soon


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## Blaze (Jan 2, 2019)

There are receivers in the doors as well, that's how the door knows to unlock when you press the button.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

PolarisX said:


> I keep seeing articles that say it would work with the phone dead. They don't say how you would interface with it or anything.


Apple Pay can be used for mass transit. You can change a setting to where "Express Transit/Travel" is enabled, and that lets you swipe through transit gates without having to use Touch ID (fingerprint) or Face ID (facial identification) to swipe for transit payment.

The latest versions of iPhone (iPhone XR, iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max and later) will still work to pay for transit when the battery is dead. When the phone turns off you get about 4-5 hours where the NFC still works to pay for transit and you get a haptic feedback (phone vibrates) instead of lighting up the screen to display the transaction.

So you don't interface with the phone. If you have a relatively new iPhone you can use it to do some NFC stuff even when the battery is dead: mass transit, and also use it for student ID at some big-name universities that allow you to have a digital student ID on your phone and Apple Watch.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Apple Pay can be used for mass transit. You can change a setting to where "Express Transit/Travel" is enabled, and that lets you swipe through transit gates without having to use Touch ID (fingerprint) or Face ID (facial identification) to swipe for transit payment.
> 
> The latest versions of iPhone (iPhone XR, iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max and later) will still work to pay for transit when the battery is dead. When the phone turns off you get about 4-5 hours where the NFC still works to pay for transit and you get a haptic feedback (phone vibrates) instead of lighting up the screen to display the transaction.
> 
> So you don't interface with the phone. If you have a relatively new iPhone you can use it to do some NFC stuff even when the battery is dead: mass transit, and also use it for student ID at some big-name universities that allow you to have a digital student ID on your phone and Apple Watch.


That’s fascinating, I use nfc for the subway every day on my phone and I never knew it worked if the phone was dead. That blew my mind

I’d really like to see it all together replace the key, I don’t know what it is, but that key really irks me


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Carminooch said:


> I use nfc for the subway every day on my phone and I never knew it worked if the phone was dead.


Look in your settings and see if you can enable express pass for transit.

If you own one of the mentioned iPhones, it will work for a while after the phone turns off for a dead battery. Basically, if you can press the power button and the screen lights up to tell you something (the "plug the phone in to charge it" icon on older phones, but newer phones will show the transit and student ID stuff it can still do) it will work. If you press the button and nothing happens, that's several hours later and the battery is too dead to do even NFC stuff.


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## Carminooch (Mar 23, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> Look in your settings and see if you can enable express pass for transit.
> 
> If you own one of the mentioned iPhones, it will work for a while after the phone turns off for a dead battery. Basically, if you can press the power button and the screen lights up to tell you something (the "plug the phone in to charge it" icon on older phones, but newer phones will show the transit and student ID stuff it can still do) it will work. If you press the button and nothing happens, that's several hours later and the battery is too dead to do even NFC stuff.


I already enabled transit mode and have been using it for some time now, I love it, I’d love to have that kind of tech built into the Cruze.

That’s fascinating about the low battery part, thanks for sharing that info


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