# "Minus-sizing" Winter Tires / Wheels



## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I'd call the company and check if they've actually verified this. I'd assume they have, but assuming doesn't often work. 

The 205/70-15's are spot-on for outer diameter with the 17" wheels/tires on both of our Cruzes. I had a set of those, but sold them when I couldn't find a 15" wheel in our bolt pattern. 

Another option is getting 215/60-16 snow tires on 16" wheels. I have this size snow tire and wheel. It works well. The handling is mushier and less sure-footed, though. 

I'd snap up a 15" package if it's been verified to fit. Be warned, the car's handling will be changed notably going from a 225/50-17 to a 16" or 15" snow tire.


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

I purchased some 15" steel wheels and snows from TireRack, I haven't tried them on yet to see if they'll fit. Personally I've always used the smallest wheels that I can in the winter, Having the extra sidewall height really helps when the roads get rough from packed down snow


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## *Ange (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks Sciphi. I'll call TireRack and speak with someone who can verify. I live in western NY state where we sometimes get a fair amount of snow, but more important, our roads get beat-up badly throughout the winter. The extra rubber in the side walls helps absorb the pot holes. Thoughts about good handling won't re-enter my mind until late spring after some road repairs are made.

Thanks again,

*Ange


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## *Ange (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks wetpainted. Hope your wheels will fit. I agree with the idea of having more sidewall height when the roads are rough. What one loses in handling one gains in reduced wear and tear.

Good Luck,

*Ange


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

I lived in Buffalo for a few years, so I know all about snow. There were many nights I'd come back from Ellicottville or Colden in the middle of the lake-effect. Good snows were a must.


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## NBrehm (Jun 27, 2011)

I think 15" wheel will fit fine on the Cruze, brakes are tiny enough. You also might want to consider slightly narrower tires for the winter, increases the weight on the contact patch and helps you get the tread to the pavement. You can also always use a ruler or tape measure if you are worried about it and see how car it is from the rotor to the far side of the caliper. Won't be exact but it will get you close enough to guess. Then just look up the inside diameter of the wheel you want to buy. I think the Cruze rotors are around 10.8 inches, so if the back of the caliper is even 13 I would be surprised


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## *Ange (Oct 6, 2012)

sciphi, 

I live in Boston, NY. You may remember "Kissing Bridge" ski resort - I live on the back side of the hill from the ski slopes. Was just in Ellicottville yesterday for Octoberfest. It felt like it was going to snow!

*Ange


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Has anyone found 15" rims in our bolt pattern? As far as I know, no other car besides the Cruze and the Sonic uses a 5x105 bolt pattern and a 15" wheel is not an option here in the U.S.

It seems your only option would be to look overseas at Holden or Vauxhall vehicles, like this: Alloy Wheels Search Vauxhall Astra 5x105 09> all sizes Page 1 - Alloy Wheels - Specialist supplier of alloy wheels and tyres packages, Fast Delivery, Buy Online. Sort Price Low.


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## babymobilcruze (Aug 17, 2012)

Unless you get tons of snow many times a year imo I think your best bet is to get 1LT 16" wheels with the oem all seasons or even LS steelies. The narrower the tire the better for cutting through snow just make sure you get a taller sidewall so you don't throw off your speedometer too bad and rack up extra miles you aren't actually driving.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

babymobilcruze said:


> Unless you get tons of snow many times a year imo I think your best bet is to get 1LT 16" wheels with the oem all seasons or even LS steelies. The narrower the tire the better for cutting through snow just make sure you get a taller sidewall so you don't throw off your speedometer too bad and rack up extra miles you aren't actually driving.


I have lots of experience with the area the OP lives in. Snow tires are a de-facto requirement. They do in fact get tons of snow every year. It's the downside to living in the country south of Buffalo, NY. 

I'd try hard to get the 15" wheels. Lots of folks in that area drive GM or Ford cars that take the 205/70-15 the Cruze would, so those tires are cheap and plentiful in the Buffalo area.


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## fyrftr422 (Aug 15, 2012)

babymobilcruze said:


> just make sure you get a taller sidewall so you don't throw off your speedometer too bad and rack up extra miles you aren't actually driving.


Potentially dumb question here, but if you were to get a tire/wheel combo that isn't exactly the size your presently running (I have a '12 RS with 18's), couldn't you take the car into GM and have then recalibrate your computer to accept the new tire size so your speedo won't be adversely affected? I guess I am assuming with the digital speedo the computer runs it, not a mechanical one like in cars past.


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## scha7530 (Apr 15, 2012)

fyrftr422 said:


> Potentially dumb question here, but if you were to get a tire/wheel combo that isn't exactly the size your presently running (I have a '12 RS with 18's), couldn't you take the car into GM and have then recalibrate your computer to accept the new tire size so your speedo won't be adversely affected? I guess I am assuming with the digital speedo the computer runs it, not a mechanical one like in cars past.


As long as the outside tire diameter is the same there will be no issue. How you find this is:

((Tire width)/25.4)*2*(Aspect ratio)+(rim diameter)=tire diameter
((225/25.4)*2*(0.45)+18=25.97"


So, for the Cruze Sizes
LTZ: 225/45-18=25.97"
2LT: 225/50-17=25.86"
Eco: 215/55-17=26.31"
LS & 1LT (and likely snow tires): 215/60-16=26.16

Even in my case where I switch from 225/50-17 to 215/60-16 is worth 1.2% speedometer error which is worth 0.84mph @ 70mph. Don't even worry about it. I would actually be somewhat surprised if GM even takes this into account.


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## 72oly300 (Apr 9, 2011)

I have 16 in OE steelies for winter vs. my 2LT 17's. Went with the 215/60-16. Work great.


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

Finally decided to put the 15" steelies from tirerack on. They fit perfect, there's about a 1cm of clearance between the front calipers and the wheels at the tightest spot


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

That's great! It's very good to know that those wheels will fit without any issues. 

How did you find those rims, if you don't mind me asking? Are these the rims that one would find on a Sonic?

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using AutoGuide.Com Free App


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## fyrftr422 (Aug 15, 2012)

Good news, Thanks for the update.


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> That's great! It's very good to know that those wheels will fit without any issues.
> 
> How did you find those rims, if you don't mind me asking? Are these the rims that one would find on a Sonic?
> 
> Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using AutoGuide.Com Free App


I bought them from TireRack, Under the wheel packages, it gave me the option to select 15" instead of 16". I'm not sure what size the Sonics use, but they look similar.

If for some reason they don't fit, TireRack is really good about it. On my M3 I had, the 15"s they said would fit hit the brake calipers. I just sent them a couple of pics and they shipped out a different set of wheels and tires, It was a really easy process.


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## bigemun (Aug 24, 2012)

Did you have to buy and install the TPS sensors when you ordered them? Did you get just the rims or the winter tire package? Wheelcovers are from where? Thanks-


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

I just got the package from Tirerack, no wheel sensors. The light blinkings for a minute after starting and then stays on after that, it doesn't bother me. The hub caps were part of the package from tirerack. I decided not to run them though, It seems like I'll be able to wash salt off the wheels better without the hub caps on.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

wetpainted said:


> I bought them from TireRack, Under the wheel packages, it gave me the option to select 15"...


What size tires are included with this package?


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## wetpainted (Jun 10, 2012)

205-70/15


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

Those look a little like the cobalt 15 inch rims. Not surprised that they clear the brakes. 
Does anyone know how the stock firestone's are in the snow?


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## bigemun (Aug 24, 2012)

I ordered the rims and wheel covers from Tire Rack today. They were able to answer every question I had and had great customer service. I will source my tires locally.Walmart has Good Year Viva 2's cheap in 205/70/15. Thanks for posting the pictures as they helped me decide to get these for my ECO. My car is the same blue granite color as yours and it looks great. They use TONS of salt here in Minnesota, so running my ECO rims was not an option!


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## jadedgamerx (Nov 12, 2012)

bryanakron40 said:


> Those look a little like the cobalt 15 inch rims. Not surprised that they clear the brakes.
> Does anyone know how the stock firestone's are in the snow?


Having almost gone through the intersection of University and HW610 in **** Rapids on VERY LIGHT packed snow with the ABS going the entire time, I can tell you the stock Firestone F700 tires are junk in the snow.


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## sciphi (Aug 26, 2011)

Good to know the 15" wheels fit. I wish those had been available last year, as it would have saved me $$$.


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## jadedgamerx (Nov 12, 2012)

bigemun said:


> I ordered the rims and wheel covers from Tire Rack today. They were able to answer every question I had and had great customer service. I will source my tires locally.Walmart has Good Year Viva 2's cheap in 205/70/15. Thanks for posting the pictures as they helped me decide to get these for my ECO. My car is the same blue granite color as yours and it looks great. They use TONS of salt here in Minnesota, so running my ECO rims was not an option!


I'm planning on ordering the 15" steelies from Tire Rack with General Altimax Arctic tires - I had them on my Audi and loved them. IMO, they look better without hub-caps anyway. Thanks for the info on fitment in this thread.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

babymobilcruze said:


> Unless you get tons of snow many times a year imo I think your best bet is to get 1LT 16" wheels with the oem all seasons or even LS steelies. The narrower the tire the better for cutting through snow just make sure you get a taller sidewall so you don't throw off your speedometer too bad and rack up extra miles you aren't actually driving.


We don't get a whole lot of snow out here in the Chicago area, but all it takes is one or two snowfalls where the roads are dusted over, packed with snow, or full of slush, and your car easily loses control. The cheapest snow tire will vastly outperform the best all-season tire. When the wind starts blowing, you really start to appreciate the value of a good snow tire.


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## bryanakron40 (Nov 8, 2012)

jadedgamerx said:


> Having almost gone through the intersection of University and HW610 in **** Rapids on VERY LIGHT packed snow with the ABS going the entire time, I can tell you the stock Firestone F700 tires are junk in the snow.


Thanks for the info. Now to see if the wife and wallet will allow snows...lol.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

bryanakron40 said:


> Thanks for the info. Now to see if the wife and wallet will allow snows...lol.


Depends on how you look at it. I see it not as a matter of whether or not I can afford to buy snow tires, but whether or not I can afford not to. Remember, you will get more _safe _life out of a set of all-season tires if you only use them 3 seasons out of the year. 

With the 25-40mph wind gusts we sometimes get around here, can you afford not to have snow tires?


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## jadedgamerx (Nov 12, 2012)

For those "on the fence" in Winter weather regions, your tire choices can have a major impact on the outcome of regular day to day driving and your stress levels.

I had a "newish" GTI that was my DD, it received hail damage during a major thunderstorm around August of 2006. Some insurance money came back and instead of fixing the hail damage, I decided to repair a wheel bearing and put a set of sticky low-profile summer compound tires on the car, prizing handling response and absolute grip at that point in my life over anything else (oh to be VERY young, and dumb, again).

The following Thanksgiving night we had a cold snap and average temps went from about 53*F down into the low 20s. I learned the hard way while driving out to a friends house for a "Thanksgiving" house party while temperatures were dropping that summer compound tires quickly turn into hockey pucks even during routine driving procedures at those temperatures. I entered a road construction zone and attempted to make a corner at the posted speed limit (or maybe even slightly below it, I had noticed some traction issues prior to being at this point in my drive). Unfortunately my car ran out of grip, I ran out of skill and I lost control of the rear and hit the concrete barrier and went vertical and rolled, totaling the car and seriously injuring my confidence in my ability to drive a vehicle safely for the next year or so (I was pretty hard on myself at the time). I had a 12 pack of beer in the back of the car that flew past my head and shattered all over the road so I looked like I was drinking while driving too. It was a bad situation, but a well learned lesson and I was not physically harmed other than some bumps and bruises.

Fast forwarding to owning a used Audi A4 with three mismatched tires (including model, brand and wear levels) and Winter approaching again within a month or so, I went into heavy research prior to purchasing replacement tires for the car. It was regularly reported in the German autobahn tire testing articles I could find that a Winter tire was rated to have superior grip, even in dry conditions, compared against all-season compounds where the average temperature was below 40*F. Typically this was due to the tire being engineered with a higher silica content and a specific heat range for maximum grip falling around 15-20*F with a roll-off both above and below that point having higher grip than the roll-off of an all-season in that same temperature range.

With Winter tires not only does your static traction increase during straight line maneuvers (acceleration and braking) but they also have a large impact on stability at speed as well as maneuverability during emergency procedures. I don't condone driving outside of the control limits of your car or personal skill, but with Winter tires on the car I am typically much more comfortable maintaining "highway speeds" in less than stellar road conditions because I can feel that the car is planted and stable, especially compared to how the car drives on OEM All Seasons or Summer Compounds (God help you, may you have my prior fortune of no serious injury). Since my accident and change in tire strategy I have had the opportunity to "demo" my tire choices during snowstorms bringing people home from birthday parties or shuttling relatives to holiday parties and the like. People are always amazed at the difference the Winter tires make when the roads are slick/slushy/show covered. All the while watching SUVs fishtailing in 4x4/AWD mode on all-seasons and going into ditches due to their inflated sense of Winter driving capability.

Also, not to throw most drivers under the bus (or anyone who hasn't completed a Winter driving safety course), but most of the (non-motorsports interested) people I have ridden with don't seem to pick up on the handling changes that occur prior to a loss of control and are in an accelerating yaw rate before they attempt to make corrections and the accident is basically inevitable at that point unless they have a LOT of empty road in front of them. Winter tires give you extra time to regain control of a bad situation or help you prevent one from occurring in the first place. Having that safety net available could mean the difference between a police/hospital phone call or a happy/excited call from your significant other stating how he/she was able to avoid an accident successfully thanks to your foresight and preparation. I don't want to take the risk of losing the one I love because I was unwilling to spend some money up front.

Sorry for the long post / life story / rant but it's something I feel strongly about and try to promote amongst the people I care about whenever possible.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

^ A very good read, and absolutely true. Your life is riding on your tires, and all it takes is a bit of slush or wet snow to ruin your day, or your life. If you get snow where you live, buy some snow tires on steel wheels. You can't afford not to.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

Agree completely. If you drive in the snow, and have never had a set of snow tires, you don't know what you are missing.


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## cronyjabrony (Aug 10, 2012)

I am hoping to have my snow shoes on this week


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Got a set of Blizzaks on 16" Steelies ready to go!

If anyone is interested in buying some, Blizzaks have a Buy 4, get $50 off discount. I was able to get an additional 5% off for using my Firestone card, even though it's technically "double discounting." With the $50, it actually makes them cheaper than getting them on TireRack _before shipping_.


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## jadedgamerx (Nov 12, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Got a set of Blizzaks on 16" Steelies ready to go!
> 
> If anyone is interested in buying some, Blizzaks have a Buy 4, get $50 off discount. I was able to get an additional 5% off for using my Firestone card, even though it's technically "double discounting." With the $50, it actually makes them cheaper than getting them on TireRack _before shipping_.


Wow, that's stellar. I got my Generals shipped from Tire Rack for just under $600 with steelies and I'm pretty brand loyal to them at the moment, but if I wasn't I would for sure take that offer.


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## fyrftr422 (Aug 15, 2012)

I was on the fence with the 15" wheels since a lot of tire shops up here in the Great White North were telling me they had nothing, nor could they get or confirm anything in a 15" wheel for the Cruze. Couple of other places said they may fit now but might not in the future, especially if they are a universal wheel, as opposed to a better fitting and more stable hub centric wheel. I did confirm that the 15" wheels from Tirerack are hub-centric, not just a plain universal, which is a good thing.


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## fyrftr422 (Aug 15, 2012)

bigemun said:


> I ordered the rims and wheel covers from Tire Rack today. They were able to answer every question I had and had great customer service. I will source my tires locally.Walmart has Good Year Viva 2's cheap in 205/70/15. Thanks for posting the pictures as they helped me decide to get these for my ECO. My car is the same blue granite color as yours and it looks great. They use TONS of salt here in Minnesota, so running my ECO rims was not an option!


Have you put your 15" rims on the car yet? I'll feel better about driving across the border to get a set from Tirerack if a couple people confirm fit.


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## UpstateNYBill (Jan 14, 2012)

fyrftr422 said:


> I was on the fence with the 15" wheels since a lot of tire shops up here in the Great White North were telling me they had nothing, nor could they get or confirm anything in a 15" wheel for the Cruze. Couple of other places said they may fit now but might not in the future, especially if they are a universal wheel, as opposed to a better fitting and more stable hub centric wheel. I did confirm that the 15" wheels from Tirerack are hub-centric, not just a plain universal, which is a good thing.


The 15" rim that people are getting for their Cruze is actually the base steel rim that goes on the Sonic. The Sonic uses the same bolt pattern as the Cruze.


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## fyrftr422 (Aug 15, 2012)

UpstateNYBill said:


> The 15" rim that people are getting for their Cruze is actually the base steel rim that goes on the Sonic. The Sonic uses the same bolt pattern as the Cruze.


Good to know, I have a couple new phone calls to make. I have no problem getting them from Tirerack when I go to the States in early December, but if I can get them locally for a similar price, then I'll stay north of the border for this purchase.


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## fyrftr422 (Aug 15, 2012)

I've had some more confirmation that a 15" rim can be found for the Cruze from a couple local sources. 

15" - 5x105 for the '11-'13 Cruze and '12-'13 Sonic - Part # X45656 - this is a hub centric wheel, not universal.

http://www.costco.ca/wcsstore/CostcoCABCCatalogAssetStore/Attachment/100018256.pdf (See pages 8 and 69) for only $41.99 at Costco here in Canada

I ordered a set of these wheels from Costco with 205/70R15 winters and should have them by the 1st week of December.



I was also given a part # X43557 and another Canadian website popped up with what looks like the same wheel

http://winter-tires.pmctire.com/enw/gm-15x6-5-105.tire

Maybe both numbers are correct, I never inquired further into the latter wheel.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for the Canadian info!


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## toilet_monkey (Nov 30, 2011)

I have a 2012 Cruze Eco and as you know, it comes stock with 17" wheels. I bought a 15" winter wheel/tire set from tirerack.com. I chose the plain old black steelies, but I did NOT buy the recommended 15" tire size (215/65-15). Instead, I bought the alternative recommended 15" tires, which were slightly taller and narrower at 205/70R-15 (General Altimax Arctic). The reason I did this was because I was worried about installing tires that would make the car sit too low. I emailed tirerack and a representative confirmed that the alternative size wheels/tires I wanted were actually the same exact wheel height as the stock equipment on the car.

This is a big win-win. The alternative recommended tires are narrower and taller than the "recommended" size, which means better snow performance. Furthermore, they were cheaper, too!

I installed the wheels/tires myself and they fit perfectly. There's plenty of room around the front calipers and rear drums. The only bummer is that tirerack sent open faced nuts, so the the wheel bolts stick out. Kind of ugly. Also, the 15" wheel tire is slightly heavier than the stock aluminum wheel and tire, but that may be expected for you.


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## jadedgamerx (Nov 12, 2012)

toilet_monkey said:


> I have a 2012 Cruze Eco and as you know, it comes stock with 17" wheels. I bought a 15" winter wheel/tire set from tirerack.com. I chose the plain old black steelies, but I did NOT buy the recommended 15" tire size (215/65-15). Instead, I bought the alternative recommended 15" tires, which were slightly taller and narrower at 205/70R-15 (General Altimax Arctic). The reason I did this was because I was worried about installing tires that would make the car sit too low. I emailed tirerack and a representative confirmed that the alternative size wheels/tires I wanted were actually the same exact wheel height as the stock equipment on the car.
> 
> This is a big win-win. The alternative recommended tires are narrower and taller than the "recommended" size, which means better snow performance. Furthermore, they were cheaper, too!
> 
> I installed the wheels/tires myself and they fit perfectly. There's plenty of room around the front calipers and rear drums. The only bummer is that tirerack sent open faced nuts, so the the wheel bolts stick out. Kind of ugly. Also, the 15" wheel tire is slightly heavier than the stock aluminum wheel and tire, but that may be expected for you.


I have literally the exact same setup and experience as you. +1 on 15" w 205/70R - everything clears fine here, a little tight up front IMO but there is clearance.


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## bigemun (Aug 24, 2012)

Yes, I have the wheels on the car now and fit/look perfect.The ride is reminiscent of my former car a Lumina I had for 12 years. I purchased the viva 2 tires from walmart and had very good luck with them on my Lumina for years in the snow/slush. I purchased the wheel covers as well and they look close to the factory ones. Good deal go get em'.


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## jadedgamerx (Nov 12, 2012)

Compared to the first set of generals I had on my Audi, these ones are really, really loud. But I ran those at 32 PSI and I'm running these at 42 PSI - but **** they sound like truck tires compared to the factory Firestones.


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## toilet_monkey (Nov 30, 2011)

yep, they are definitely louder than stock. Not super annoyingly loud for me, fortunately.


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## BerettaZ (Jul 1, 2012)

toilet_monkey said:


> I have a 2012 Cruze Eco and as you know, it comes stock with 17" wheels. I bought a 15" winter wheel/tire set from tirerack.com. I chose the plain old black steelies, but I did NOT buy the recommended 15" tire size (215/65-15). Instead, I bought the alternative recommended 15" tires, which were slightly taller and narrower at 205/70R-15 (General Altimax Arctic). The reason I did this was because I was worried about installing tires that would make the car sit too low. I emailed tirerack and a representative confirmed that the alternative size wheels/tires I wanted were actually the same exact wheel height as the stock equipment on the car.
> 
> This is a big win-win. The alternative recommended tires are narrower and taller than the "recommended" size, which means better snow performance. Furthermore, they were cheaper, too!
> 
> I installed the wheels/tires myself and they fit perfectly. There's plenty of room around the front calipers and rear drums. The only bummer is that tirerack sent open faced nuts, so the the wheel bolts stick out. Kind of ugly. Also, the 15" wheel tire is slightly heavier than the stock aluminum wheel and tire, but that may be expected for you.


Thanks for this insight. Had an order in my shopping cart at Tirerack for the recommended sizes when I stumbled upon this thread. Changed to the 205/70's...


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