# Drop the DPF!



## 2014diesel (Aug 31, 2016)

Hi all,

I just wanted to join and share my experience with my 2014 Diesel Cruze so far.

Firstly with the amount of issues I see with DPF's in general the fact companies are allowed to release cars with these issues is insane.

I've had my car about 6 months now and only had one issue that drove me insane and caused just a shitty experience for me for a month!

So I went on a trip 8 hours from where I live and on the trip down I get the add DEF warning which I had just added some the week before wondering why the **** that would be on. So I continue to drive thinking it will go away. I then get to a gas station and buy DEF, about $40 dollars worth to fill the tank. The light doesn't go off so I assume the sensor hasn't read it yet, I continue driving to my destination thinking it will turn off, it never does. Turns out the heating element went out in the DPF causing this issue. I went to a dealer that charged me $0 to look and tell me that and that he doesn't have the part and it was on back order, this guy was the only good experience with Chevy I've had. So now I'm pissed because I'm in limp mode to I believe 65 MPH.

I had my brother drive 8 hours to tow this back to my house. Renting the trailer and such was probably about $150 and I paid him like $300 for being so kind to come down and do it. 

So I get back into town and take it to my dealer and I explain to them I know whats wrong and they take a look and charge me like $110 or more dollars to tell me what I ******* told them. To make matters worse I thought it was covered under warranty so that's why I let them take a look, then they tell it's not covered and the DPF will cost $700 dollars. The lady called me and I literally told her $700 dollars is insane and I could do a delete and tune for $500 more dollars and never deal with it again. She said that would void my warranty, to which I replied "because that's doing so much for me now?"

So wanting to do it from the start I went with getting a tune and delete and it's literally the best thing I ever did. I spent more money then what it would cost for the DPF but I wasn't paying $700 dollars for a system Chevy can't get right for me to be penalized for.

I love my Diesel Cruze and plan to do a few more things to it and hope to post it here once I get the projects going, it's a great little car. 

The thing I'm most disappointed in is Chevy, this is my first new car to me and I felt shafted by the company. Since I got the delete and tune I've had no issues and been rolling a little coal . If I get any car in the future, I won't be choosing Chevy again. It's unreal I would be charged for that element going out when I didn't cause it and that it wasn't covered under the power-train warranty.

TLDR: **** DPF, DELETE AND TUNE.


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## GMMillwright (Mar 5, 2011)

how many miles on the car?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

before i bought the car, i had planned to delete when stuff went bad.

i have 3yrs exp fixing this stuff on class trucks

so far in 3yrs/ 60000 miles ownership i have 1 emission issue (nox2 sensor) that doesnt impact anything so i havent fixed

i still fully plan to delete

you have to understand that service dept and gm in general aint allowed to offer/encourage deletes, theyre illegal after all.

i would speculate that the mods are encouraged to not promote this path as well, there is a corporate presence, not our personal blog(s)


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I sometimes wonder if this dealer even properly diagnosed the problem? I don't blame you at all for doing the delete, I would way prefer to have a emission system work properly and be clean. Your experience is my concern about the car, be stranded hours from home and no parts available to fix and then the limp mode 8 hours from home. 

How own difficult was the delete to do? Any weird gremlins with the delete? Hope you enjoy your car for many more miles.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

2014diesel said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just wanted to join and share my experience with my 2014 Diesel Cruze so far.
> 
> ...


If you are talking about your DEF heater element, I think others out of warranty have ordered the part online and replaced themselves fairly easily for a total of about $150 out of pocket. I don't think it's too much more than that at the dealer, if they don't try to replace the entire tank which seems like what yours wanted to do. I think your dealership (as with many other dealerships when it comes to our diesel Cruzes) sucks.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

2014diesel said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just wanted to join and share my experience with my 2014 Diesel Cruze so far.
> 
> ...


What does this mean?

You bought a new 2014 model year car in the 2016 calendar year?

What does <new> mean to you?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> If you are talking about your DEF heater element, I think others out of warranty have ordered the part online and replaced themselves fairly easily for a total of about $150 out of pocket. I don't think it's too much more than that at the dealer, if they don't try to replace the entire tank which seems like what yours wanted to do. I think your dealership (as with many other dealerships when it comes to our diesel Cruzes) sucks.


That's what I was going to do, until GM said they'd pay for it.

Still have it, unopened, too, haha.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

diesel said:


> If you are talking about your DEF heater element, I think others out of warranty have ordered the part online and replaced themselves fairly easily for a total of about $150 out of pocket. I don't think it's too much more than that at the dealer, if they don't try to replace the entire tank which seems like what yours wanted to do. I think your dealership (as with many other dealerships when it comes to our diesel Cruzes) sucks.


This may be true, but if your 8 hours from home and limp mode, your options for do it yourself are very limited. That's the part that sucks big time, not like a blown out tire, we can get a tire most anywhere.


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## krom (May 30, 2015)

Anybody have a source for a delete pipe? I'm looking to hang the dpf, and scr in my garage. I have access to efi live, and with special thanks to Snipesy, and all his hard work, it looks like the software will be easy.
[h=1][/h]


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

Not to be too harsh, but that whole post seemed a little weird.

I also (in the somewhat distant past) been convinced that all "that emissions crap" was nothing but trouble for diesels. I've mostly reversed that position, although I do believe that EGR is, at best, a mixed bag for diesels. But, I'm totally down with the SCR and DPF technologies.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

krom said:


> Anybody have a source for a delete pipe? I'm looking to hang the dpf, and scr in my garage. I have access to efi live, and with special thanks to Snipesy, and all his hard work, it looks like the software will be easy.


Sadly not. May change one day. I know there is someone here who had a shop make one for him, probably best bet.


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## GMMillwright (Mar 5, 2011)

Thread about Fleece Performance's Cruze "delete" down pipe and tune:

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/201-...0353-delete-tune-down-pipe-now-available.html


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

Fleece does offer a down pipe now just have to call it's not listed on the site. I was at fleece last week and they had 3 ready on the shelf to ship and about 10 ready to be coated.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Post some pics/videos!

There are a lot of people on here that I believe would be interested in that delete kit but the information on it is EXTREMELY limited. There have been a few people that have done it, but as far as pictures of the parts, pictures of the install, or 0-60/driving videos, they're pretty much nonexistent.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> Post some pics/videos!
> 
> There are a lot of people on here that I believe would be interested in that delete kit but the information on it is EXTREMELY limited. There have been a few people that have done it, but as far as pictures of the parts, pictures of the install, or 0-60/driving videos, they're pretty much nonexistent.


http://youtu.be/4JrfGIWVC7U

heres mine


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## GMMillwright (Mar 5, 2011)

Jdrury15 said:


> http://youtu.be/4JrfGIWVC7U
> 
> heres mine



That's no SCR as well, correct. Straight pipe from turbo to bumper.


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## pontiacgt (Jan 12, 2011)

Isn't this a emission component and shouldn't it be covered for at least 80,000 miles. I know on the gas version it is. So why not on the diesel, since this is the government making them do this.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pontiacgt said:


> Isn't this a emission component and shouldn't it be covered for at least 80,000 miles. I know on the gas version it is. So why not on the diesel, since this is the government making them do this.


The gas engine doesn't have DPF. 

And yes, it is an emissions component - but only the cat and a select number of other components are covered for 80,000 miles. The rest are covered by the Federal Emissions Warranty of 24,000 miles, which is far too short.


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## pontiacgt (Jan 12, 2011)

MP81 said:


> The gas engine doesn't have DPF.
> 
> And yes, it is an emissions component - but only the cat and a select number of other components are covered for 80,000 miles. The rest are covered by the Federal Emissions Warranty of 24,000 miles, which is far too short.


.


I know a gas engine doesn't have DPF. However if it emission is should be covered since its required by law so it should be the same warranty.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pontiacgt said:


> .
> 
> 
> I know a gas engine doesn't have DPF. However if it emission is should be covered since its required by law so it should be the same warranty.


never read a warranty before, huh?


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## pontiacgt (Jan 12, 2011)

yes I have and emissions is emissions sounds like someone being stupid. Typical government intervention. I would agree with everyone get it modified and just turn it off.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

pontiacgt said:


> However if it emission is should be covered since its required by law so it should be the same warranty.


It is - that "same warranty" is 2 years and 24,000 miles. That's the Federal Emissions Warranty.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

GMMillwright said:


> That's no SCR as well, correct. Straight pipe from turbo to bumper.


Correct


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## King Zippy (Nov 23, 2014)

From what I can read the part of being 8 hours from home wouldn't have been the biggest issue. There are dealers 8 hours from home that you could have went to. The part of it not being under warranty does suck, but it's tough to say why they wouldn't warranty it from the info given. I'm assuming your were out by mileage. If you bought it used it could have been from an owner that only took short trips or something of that type and never kept it clean. Buying the DPF delete is working for you and it's good you found something to take care of you even though it makes them terrible for emissions output. The problem would be if your state adds in emissions testing or if Fleece gets busted for it like others in the past have they will go after those who have purchased the part. \


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Jdrury15 said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > Post some pics/videos!
> ...


Sounds good. I'd like to see some driving videos of the deleted cars. Something that shows the performance/sound increase and how the car drives with the delete.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

And delete setups on diesels whether it's cars or trucks or whatever, is always done at your own risk. There is a chance you can get busted for it. That's why you need to keep all your stock stuff. But as far as busting the company that made the kit, if it is marketed as "off road only" meaning for track cars and stuff that isn't used on the roads, they're pretty safe.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pontiacgt said:


> I would agree with everyone get it modified and just turn it off.


Not "everyone". I have 187K miles on my fully stock diesel and am still about $1000 ahead of where I would be if I deleted. i am all for clean emissions, and many others feel the same way. That being said, I do want them to work properly!


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

diesel said:


> Not "everyone". I have 187K miles on my fully stock diesel and am still about $1000 ahead of where I would be if I deleted. i am all for clean emissions, and many others feel the same way. That being said, I do want them to work properly!


You're the exception @diesel, not the rule. Just had a P0133 O2 sensor go bad, so it seems that the various and sundry sensors are a common problem for many of us.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> You're the exception @*diesel* , not the rule. Just had a P0133 O2 sensor go bad, so it seems that the various and sundry sensors are a common problem for many of us.


dont know about all that... id actually like to see of CTD how many have had trouble free rides, how many had problems and of those what problems... to see a #'s %


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## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

130,000 only replaced EGR valve around 56000


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

pandrad61 said:


> dont know about all that... id actually like to see of CTD how many have had trouble free rides, how many had problems and of those what problems... to see a #'s %


Good point, we should collect those numbers from those who own a 14-15 CTD and document the known issues with O2 or other sensors as well as DPF and SCR tank issues.


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

Well, I had a P0133 code due to "soot covered' O2 sensor at 19K miles. Notice I didn't say the sensor _failed_, only that it was coated in soot. Was that because I didn't drive it "properly"? Was it because of design flaw? Maybe a bit of both?


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## krom (May 30, 2015)

22,800 miles on mine. P0133 for O2 sensor. sensor replaced.

FWIW ecu states 43 regen completed, 16g soot currently in dpf lifetime average is 39.8 mpg, so averaging just a smidge more than one regen per tank of fuel


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

DslGate said:


> Good point, we should collect those numbers from those who own a 14-15 CTD and document the known issues with O2 or other sensors as well as DPF and SCR tank issues.


You have tho think about all the thousands of drivers who never come to the forum to report "my car is running fine". If you go to any automotive forum and read a few posts, you'd never want to buy ANYTHING. All cars have issues, and prople come to forums to report them (or to chime in when they see others reporting them), generally speaking. 



beaurrr said:


> Well, I had a P0133 code due to "soot covered' O2 sensor at 19K miles. Notice I didn't say the sensor _failed_, only that it was coated in soot. Was that because I didn't drive it "properly"? Was it because of design flaw? Maybe a bit of both?


I say a bit of both. We are still the beta testers for this new technology.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

diesel said:


> You have tho think about all the thousands of drivers who never come to the forum to report "my car is running fine". If you go to any automotive forum and read a few posts, you'd never want to buy ANYTHING. All cars have issues, and prople come to forums to report them (or to chime in when they see others reporting them), generally speaking.
> 
> 
> 
> I say a bit of both. We are still the beta testers for this new technology.



There arent thousands of CTD owners anyway and our statistically significant sample of long term CTD owners shows there's significant sensor issues, DPF and scr/DEF tank problems . I've suffered two out of three ( DPF AND SENSORS) and I'd say we've narrowed the issues significantly based on owners here. Yes, all cars have issues, but fortunately we've narrowed ours down to about three major ones above and the complaints are all consistent. Now, GM really needs to address these. 

I came to to the forum before I bought the car, not in anticipation of issues. I suspect many have done the same.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

DslGate said:


> There arent thousands of CTD owners anyway and our statistically significant sample of long term CTD owners shows there's significant sensor issues, DPF and scr/DEF tank problems . I've suffered two out of three ( DPF AND SENSORS) and I'd say we've narrowed the issues significantly based on owners here. Yes, all cars have issues, but fortunately we've narrowed ours down to about three major ones above and the complaints are all consistent. Now, GM really needs to address these.
> 
> I came to to the forum before I bought the car, not in anticipation of issues. I suspect many have done the same.


I think there's about 18000 of us. It is a small volume to be sure, but still, there's really only been a couple handfuls of people on here reporting issues.

Did you see my "common issues" thread? I made that because there are definitely problems that pop up more often than others, some of which have happened to me. 

http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g...mmon-issues-fixes-2014-2015-cruze-diesel.html


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

2014, EGT sensor, O2 sensor and DPF sensor, 35,500 miles. Scared $hitless to keep this car past the emission warranty. Good friend and father have CTD's as well with multiple sensor issues. Friend works at a Chevy dealership and all 4 CTD's they service have had emission issues. Maybe its a geographical thing but I think Chevy dropped the ball on this one. Hopefully Gen 2's will be reliable and we eventually will be covered by recalls.


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## Su8pack1 (Apr 17, 2014)

I've experienced all of the issues, 02, n0x, and DEF tank heater. The problem with the DEF tank is they're hard to find, Being 8 hours away and a dealer close by is no help as it takes days if not weeks to get a tank.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Su8pack1 said:


> I've experienced all of the issues, 02, n0x, and DEF tank heater. The problem with the DEF tank is they're hard to find, Being 8 hours away and a dealer close by is no help as it takes days if not weeks to get a tank.


You don't need the full tank for the heater. It's the reservoir that contains the heater. 

We had our car back in three days when we had that replaced.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

diesel said:


> I think there's about 18000 of us. It is a small volume to be sure, but still, there's really only been a couple handfuls of people on here reporting issues.
> 
> Did you see my "common issues" thread? I made that because there are definitely problems that pop up more often than others, some of which have happened to me.
> 
> http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-g...mmon-issues-fixes-2014-2015-cruze-diesel.html



But there have also been a few lemon law units too that can't discuss because of settlements. I know, I've talked to a few. Again, they too have faced the common issues you've addressed in your thread. Seems like those guys who do a delete have no complaints. What's that say??


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

DslGate said:


> But there have also been a few lemon law units too that can't discuss because of settlements. I know, I've talked to a few. Again, they too have faced the common issues you've addressed in your thread. Seems like those guys who do a delete have no complaints. What's that say??


Lemon law cases and/or voluntary buybacks exist across all makes and models. Is there a disproportionate number of these with Cruze diesels? I can't find data to support that. I'd like to see it, but that is something I doubt carmakers or dealerships would ever share. So, all we have is anecdote.

As for the "deletes" having "no complaints"...this is also by anecdote. If there are only 17,000 Cruze diesels out there in North America, how many "deletes" among us can there possibly be? And how many miles on these cars are we talking about? If there's a thousand such vehicles (highly doubtful), how many of those owners are posting regularly on the forum? Very few that I've seen. How many miles have they driven their vehicles? Who knows, but probably not that many, given their age.

With such a small sample size, and such limited insight as to the alleged reliability benefits of 'deletes', it is truly impossible to make any kind of meaningful interpretations because the data simply don't exist.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Don't be fooled. Those with deletes and tunes are getting check engine lights too - of a whole different nature than stock. Lean codes, rich codes, and on the list goes. There is no utopia.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> Don't be fooled. Those with deletes and tunes are getting check engine lights too - of a whole different nature than stock. Lean codes, rich codes, and on the list goes. There is no utopia.


i figured they would have it all sorted by now. id be ok with a delete that keeps stock calibration


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

diesel said:


> Don't be fooled. Those with deletes and tunes are getting check engine lights too - of a whole different nature than stock. Lean codes, rich codes, and on the list goes. There is no utopia.


The thing about this is, a lean/rich code on a deleted vehicle normally requires a quick tweak to the tune. A failed emissions component, not cheap. Or fast.


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## Jdrury15 (Oct 26, 2015)

diesel said:


> Don't be fooled. Those with deletes and tunes are getting check engine lights too - of a whole different nature than stock. Lean codes, rich codes, and on the list goes. There is no utopia.


fully deleted here and not one check engine light.


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

A sample size of one of still a bit small.:biggrin:


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## BradHerr (Sep 29, 2013)

+1 for full delete and zero check engine lights. 45,000 miles deleted, 76,000 miles overall. 

I count myself lucky as the car has only been to the dealer for early nav radio issues, that were resolved with an update, a leaking charge pipe and routine maintenance. 


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

I just hope that after the VW debacle the Government will start Emission checking all Diesel Vehicles annually like they do the gas burners.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

sailurman said:


> I just hope that after the VW debacle the Government will start Emission checking all Diesel Vehicles annually like they do the gas burners.


I disagree. We do not need more government involvement in anything. All that equals is more money coming out of our pockets.

Besides, in the VW situation, they would have passed an emissions test every time. They were basically programmed to lie whenever an emissions check was being done on the vehicle. Annual emissions checks would have solved nothing.

All that would do, is force people like us to maintain and keep functional an inherently flawed emissions system. Vs just deleting it and being done with it


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> I disagree. We do not need more government involvement in anything. All that equals is more money coming out of our pockets.
> 
> Besides, in the VW situation, they would have passed an emissions test every time. They were basically programmed to lie whenever an emissions check was being done on the vehicle. Annual emissions checks would have solved nothing.
> 
> All that would do, is force people like us to maintain and keep functional an inherently flawed emissions system. Vs just deleting it and being done with it


i want goverment out of our daily lives more then the next guy but i disagree. im ok for cleaner emissions if they work properly and the avarage joe is not over burdened by them. the CTD and American Diesels are. gasser cars can run with clogged cat, bad o2 sensors, list goes on in emission problems... they only get CEL. we as diesels get power reduced, and a slew of problems. either make so gassers and diesels same penalty or get out (EPA) . only time a car should go reduced power is to save its self from catastrophic failure.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> i want goverment out of our daily lives more then the next guy but i disagree. im ok for cleaner emissions if they work properly and the avarage joe is not over burdened by them. the CTD and American Diesels are. gasser cars can run with clogged cat, bad o2 sensors, list goes on in emission problems... they only get CEL. we as diesels get power reduced, and a slew of problems. either make so gassers and diesels same penalty or get out (EPA) . only time a car should go reduced power is to save its self from catastrophic failure.


I agree with this. The reduced speed has a affected a couple members on here due to sensor failures.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> I agree with this. The reduced speed has a affected a couple members on here due to sensor failures.


its unsafe by all means. good luck if something emissions go wrong and your passing through desert or some back hick wooded area. honestly i wish the diesel owners would unite and get this EPa overstep revered and put them back in there place


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> its unsafe by all means. good luck if something emissions go wrong and your passing through desert or some back hick wooded area. honestly i wish the diesel owners would unite and get this EPa overstep revered and put them back in there place


If only it were that easy.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> if only it were that easy.


only a small % of colonist fought the british and we won. We the american people are strong if we unite and push our goverment to serve us. If all the disel truck community and diesel car community and performance community united and marched on and showed the epa we are sick of it, there would be change... We wont tho


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

I completely understand the frustration and anger that a *few* owners suffering from these emission control components must be feeling. I personally intentionally waited until the 2015 model had been out for almost a year prior to purchasing mine. You have to expect bugs in GEN I vehicles (Engines included). I even purchased my very first Warranty Extension(6 year 100K bumper to bumper through USAA) because of these concerns. 
However, I enjoy being able to breath and fully support our governments emission control requirements. I want my son and future generations to also be able to breath. I spent over 20 years in the US Navy and was stationed in the Philippines where there was no control. Air quality in cities there and in most 3rd world countries is horrible to say the least. 
So, in my eyes there is no room for disabling or DELETE of the emissions on this or ANY vehicle unless it is used for COMPETITION only (OFF-ROAD). 
If you want a faster car, spend more money on a faster car. If you want better mileage, go electric. IF YOU ROLL COAL, I HOPE YOUR CAR IS SEIZED, or YOUR ENGINE SEIZES (like that play on seize :sarcasm: ).

Oh, and this is all IMHOk: So anybody that is butthurt over any of my opinions can just :usa:


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

To each his own. I knew about clean air regulations and diesel emissions technology before I bought my Cruze diesel. I was OK with it then, and I'm ok with it now. If I have problems with the car's emissions equipment, I'll deal with it. But, I'm certainly not going to get all outraged against 'the government' over it. Besides, I like our now-clean air, which, ironically, is due to 'the government'.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

sailurman said:


> I completely understand the frustration and anger that a *few* owners suffering from these emission control components must be feeling. I personally intentionally waited until the 2015 model had been out for almost a year prior to purchasing mine. You have to expect bugs in GEN I vehicles (Engines included). I even purchased my very first Warranty Extension(6 year 100K bumper to bumper through USAA) because of these concerns.
> However, I enjoy being able to breath and fully support our governments emission control requirements. I want my son and future generations to also be able to breath. I spent over 20 years in the US Navy and was stationed in the Philippines where there was no control. Air quality in cities there and in most 3rd world countries is horrible to say the least.
> So, in my eyes there is no room for disabling or DELETE of the emissions on this or ANY vehicle unless it is used for COMPETITION only (OFF-ROAD).
> If you want a faster car, spend more money on a faster car. If you want better mileage, go electric. IF YOU ROLL COAL, I HOPE YOUR CAR IS SEIZED, or YOUR ENGINE SEIZES (like that play on seize :sarcasm: ).
> ...


Epic post! 



beaurrr said:


> To each his own. I knew about clean air regulations and diesel emissions technology before I bought my Cruze diesel. I was OK with it then, and I'm ok with it now. If I have problems with the car's emissions equipment, I'll deal with it. But, I'm certainly not going to get all outraged against 'the government' over it. Besides, I like our now-clean air, which, ironically, is due to 'the government'.


Me too. I was actually thrilled when i found out my needing "only" a manual regen wasn't a bad DPF. After it happened the second time, I was thrilled to find the root cause and share it with others.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

sailurman said:


> I completely understand the frustration and anger _*that a few owners suffering from these emission control components must be feeling*_. I personally intentionally waited until the 2015 model had been out for almost a year prior to purchasing mine. You have to expect bugs in GEN I vehicles (Engines included). I even purchased my very first Warranty Extension(6 year 100K bumper to bumper through USAA) because of these concerns.
> However, I enjoy being able to breath and fully support our governments emission control requirements. I want my son and future generations to also be able to breath. I spent over 20 years in the US Navy and was stationed in the Philippines where there was no control. Air quality in cities there and in most 3rd world countries is horrible to say the least.
> So, in my eyes there is no room for disabling or DELETE of the emissions on this or ANY vehicle unless it is used for COMPETITION only (OFF-ROAD).
> If you want a faster car, spend more money on a faster car. *If you want better mileage, go electric.* IF YOU ROLL COAL, I HOPE YOUR CAR IS SEIZED, or YOUR ENGINE SEIZES (like that play on seize :sarcasm: ).


More than a few owners including myself are frustrated over the various emissions related issues of the 14-15 Cruze. Numerous sensors have been replaced, DPFs have become full requiring a visit to the dealer and defective SCR tanks have failed many times. Since you're a new owner, it appears these have not stricken you (yet!!!). They will, in one form or another. 

As far as mileage goes, many of us can NOT go electric because of the sheer number of miles we drive daily or weekly. Convenience is also an issue. IN addition, NOT until they get the general cost of the Tesla, Leaf and Spark/Volt down to reasonable levels and provide charging capabilities in the few hours instead of the many hours will an electric suffice for us. None of us wants to roll coal, we all just want a reliable effective emissions system that doesn't break down. Yes, there are *very few exceptions* to this, @diesel being one, BUT many a post over the past three years has indicated a problem and they are all seemingly related to emissions.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

sailurman said:


> I completely understand the frustration and anger that a *few* owners suffering from these emission control components must be feeling. I personally intentionally waited until the 2015 model had been out for almost a year prior to purchasing mine. You have to expect bugs in GEN I vehicles (Engines included). I even purchased my very first Warranty Extension(6 year 100K bumper to bumper through USAA) because of these concerns.
> However, I enjoy being able to breath and fully support our governments emission control requirements. I want my son and future generations to also be able to breath. I spent over 20 years in the US Navy and was stationed in the Philippines where there was no control. Air quality in cities there and in most 3rd world countries is horrible to say the least.
> So, in my eyes there is no room for disabling or DELETE of the emissions on this or ANY vehicle unless it is used for COMPETITION only (OFF-ROAD).
> If you want a faster car, spend more money on a faster car. If you want better mileage, go electric. IF YOU ROLL COAL, I HOPE YOUR CAR IS SEIZED, or YOUR ENGINE SEIZES (like that play on seize :sarcasm: ).
> ...


i haven't had any emissions issues in almost 20k miles, I wish there was a happy medium and not just delete, what concerns me is the reduced power in middle of no where and stranded and the cost, if I have to spend thousands in emissions equipment that won't be a welcomed event. I do like clean air and rolling coal seems pretty stupid to me.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

What I was getting at with my post was this. 

1. Emissions testing diesels wouldn't have prevented the vw fiasco.

2. It would have forced people like us to keep repairing this flawed emissions system if you were one of the unlucky ones to have one of these vehicles with the constant emissions problems. Saying "get rid of the car if you don't like it" isn't a legitimate argument. I like the car. I don't like the emissions system. So if it starts to rob people, they have the opportunity to get rid of it, and keep enjoying their car. Simple.

I'm pretty sure that 99% of the people on here that have deleted their cars didn't do it to "roll coal" like a tool or even much for the power/mileage increase. They did it to rid themselves of the problems associated with this emissions system. One of them being the topic of the previous few posts, going into reduced power mode while you're driving and having a semi run through you. I can promise you this, the first time my car does this, that system is gone. Your clean emissions doesn't amount to much for you when you're the hood ornament of an 80,000 lb truck.

The amount of pollution that would be made if every single diesel Cruze sold was deleted, isn't even a drop in the ocean of all the kids running around in diesel trucks rolling coal like freight trains. That crap is what needs to be cracked down on.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

DslGate said:


> More than a few owners including myself are frustrated over the various emissions related issues of the 14-15 Cruze. Numerous sensors have been replaced, DPFs have become full requiring a visit to the dealer and defective SCR tanks have failed many times. Since you're a new owner, it appears these have not stricken you (yet!!!). They will, in one form or another.
> 
> As far as mileage goes, many of us can NOT go electric because of the sheer number of miles we drive daily or weekly. Convenience is also an issue. IN addition, NOT until they get the general cost of the Tesla, Leaf and Spark/Volt down to reasonable levels and provide charging capabilities in the few hours instead of the many hours will an electric suffice for us. None of us wants to roll coal, we all just want a reliable effective emissions system that doesn't break down. Yes, there are *very few exceptions* to this, @*diesel* being one, BUT many a post over the past three years has indicated a problem and they are all seemingly related to emissions.


As a separate note, the emissions equipment seems more reliable and friendly to those that do lots of highway miles like @diesel does as well as some others, those of us that don't drive a thousand miles a week and have closer to more normal driving, mix of city and highway seem more prone to emission issues.


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## oilburner (Jun 13, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> i haven't had any emissions issues in almost 20k miles, I wish there was a happy medium and not just delete, what concerns me is the reduced power in middle of no where and stranded and the cost, if I have to spend thousands in emissions equipment that won't be a welcomed event. I do like clean air and rolling coal seems pretty stupid to me.


bang on!! who needs to have their vacation turned up side down because of power reduced. should of been geared to a time period to be able to get it home an fixed.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

pandrad61 said:


> only a small % of colonist fought the british and we won. We the american people are strong if we unite and push our goverment to serve us. If all the disel truck community and diesel car community and performance community united and marched on and showed the epa we are sick of it, there would be change... We wont tho


where were you in 2004?


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> i haven't had any emissions issues in almost 20k miles, I wish there was a happy medium and not just delete, what concerns me is the reduced power in middle of no where and stranded and the cost, if I have to spend thousands in emissions equipment that won't be a welcomed event. I do like clean air and rolling coal seems pretty stupid to me.


thinking that deleting will cause 'rolling coal' seems pretty stupid to me.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> thinking that deleting will cause 'rolling coal' seems pretty stupid to me.


With delete may not cause rolling coal on ctd, I follow folks local with big trucks with delete and they roll coal in my face and it pisses me off...


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

boraz said:


> IndyDiesel said:
> 
> 
> > i haven't had any emissions issues in almost 20k miles, I wish there was a happy medium and not just delete, what concerns me is the reduced power in middle of no where and stranded and the cost, if I have to spend thousands in emissions equipment that won't be a welcomed event. I do like clean air and rolling coal seems pretty stupid to me.
> ...


This. Thinking that people delete their Chevy Cruze with the intentions of rolling coal is also pretty rediculous.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> This. Thinking that people delete their Chevy Cruze with the intentions of rolling coal is also pretty rediculous.


Its fine for you to say that, but go out and you will see folks on YouTube showing some black smoke out of the tail pipe and they think that's cool, I fully understand why folks do a delete. It is for different reasons for different folks. It is a sensitive topic, some hate the emissions, some have serious emission problems, some just like being a rebel, I think some think it's cool to roll coal. Probably other reasons as well, if I did it would be to not have reduced power with a failure and hopefully be more reliable. But see little reason for me to do it to void a 100k warranty.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> With delete may not cause rolling coal on ctd, I follow folks local with big trucks with delete and they roll coal in my face and it pisses me off...


They're usually running a tune specifically for that effect that just dumps crap tons of fuel in.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> They're usually running a tune specifically for that effect that just dumps crap tons of fuel in.


Yup. Otherwise it's a sign of a poorly tuned truck.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> justin13703 said:
> 
> 
> > This. Thinking that people delete their Chevy Cruze with the intentions of rolling coal is also pretty rediculous.
> ...


I'm not talking about the diesel truck guys. I already said something about that in a previous post about how they need to crack down on those retards. 

How many deleted cruzes have you seen running around rolling coal like a freight train? A delete doesn't just equal rolling coal. That comes from many things, a tune for it, fuel system modifications, and usually lugging the engine at a low rpm. Also usually some modifications to the maf signal.

So in short, there are going to be no deleted cruzes running around rolling coal like a high schooler in a Cummins.


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> where were you in 2004?


i was in 5th grade if i remember


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## pandrad61 (Jul 8, 2015)

> thinking that deleting will cause 'rolling coal' seems pretty stupid to me.


a well done tune wont roll coal. rolling coal unless a full out drag truck means tuner was lazy and just dumped tons of fuel in


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Speaking of deleted vehicles - My 1984 Ford Tempo diesel has absolutely no emissions equipment on it at all as far as I can tell, and I never see any smoke out the tailpipe. I'm sure it's nowhere near clean like a modern diesel, but it does go to show that a deleted diesel can run (relatively) clean if it's properly sorted. That being said, I am not a fan of deleting on a modern diesel, and hopefully the emissions systems get progressively better with time. I'm hoping that GM gets is right on the 1.6 Whisper diesels coming out. Hopefully they've been reading these forums.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Diesel, I don't have exact number but judging by the year of your old diesel it emits around *10* times more NOX than a DELETED cruze does today.

And a deleted cruze does about 20 times more NOX than a normal diesel. That means your old thing emits *200* times more NOx than a typical diesel cruze.

Let that sink in a little. Have fun sleeping tonight.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Yep - but coal/soot/smoke is particulate matter from unburned fuel. Any properly tuned diesel should not really blow much to begin with.

Can't "catch" NOx with a trap, though, hence the SCR/DEF.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

"Since you're a new owner, it appears these have not stricken you (yet!!!). They will, in one form or another."

Just went past 53,000 miles and still have not seen a code pop.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

I understand that everyone fighting this is trying to sound like they care for the environment and air quality. I get that. But let's be real here. The amount of pollutants coming from deleted diesel cruzes is negligible. They don't roll coal and trifecta doesn't provide garbage tunes that dump excess fuel to make smoke. They're not going to be dissolving the ozone layer or making you cough up black stuff.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

sailurman said:


> "Since you're a new owner, it appears these have not stricken you (yet!!!). They will, in one form or another."
> 
> Just went past 53,000 miles and still have not seen a code pop.


Then you don't need to worry about deleting your car. Some of these vehicles have been in the shop since day one with non stop emissions issues.

Keep in mind that no one is trying to make it a standard one way or the other. You're having no problems with your emissions system? Great. Don't mess with it. You've had nothing but problems with your emissions system and you're about to go out of warranty? Delete it and keep driving the car. Having options to deal with issues like this is good for everyone.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

"I understand that everyone fighting this is trying to sound like they care for the environment and air quality"..... ummm, incorrect. Most of us DO care. And if you car is not operating properly, you have to be diligent... and forceful with the manufacturer. I am on my 6th new vehicle and can honestly say I have only paid for parts that actually failed. It takes it's toll on the customer service department relationship when you demand to speak to a General Manager or even an owner. But when they realize that a customer is willing to follow up on a threat, the power scale (or BS scale) shifts quickly.

So you say negligible, I say out of compliance. But, as I said, I understand the anger and frustration.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Since I am right, and you are right (with the Bernie Sanders crowd). We'll have to agree to disagree.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. There is no requirement either way to get a delete done or not. It's totally by choice. If your car has never given you a check engine light, great. Don't delete it. But don't crucify the guys who do because they are going broke trying to keep a faulty emissions system working correctly, in the name of being "green".

I heat my home with wood as well. I guess I should go without heat all winter because wood heat puts off pollution? I'm willing to bet there's less than 20 deleted diesel cruzes in this country. There's bigger fish to fry.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> I heat my home with wood as well. I guess I should go without heat all winter because wood heat puts off pollution?


the tree doesnt live forever, it dies, rots, and releases carbon...just like when you and i burn them


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> With delete may not cause rolling coal on ctd, I follow folks local with big trucks with delete and they roll coal in my face and it pisses me off...


zero relevance


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

jblackburn said:


> They're usually running a tune specifically for that effect that just dumps crap tons of fuel in.


100%


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

For the record, deleting, disabling, or tampering with emissions equipment is actually a violation of federal and many state laws.
Make of that what you will.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> zero relevance


Maybe not zero relevance, does a ctd roll black smoke with a tune? seems your pro delete. If everyone that drove a diesel deleted emissions equipment it would be a step backwards for sure. Am I thrilled with emissions on our ctd, I am as long as it works, not so much if it costs a lot to repair.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> Maybe not zero relevance, does a ctd roll black smoke with a tune? seems your pro delete. If everyone that drove a diesel deleted emissions equipment it would be a step backwards for sure. Am I thrilled with emissions on our ctd, I am as long as it works, not so much if it costs a lot to repair.


black smoke is unburned fuel.
if you tune your vehicle for mpg, no black smoke.
if you tune your vehicle to roll coal, black smoke.
its that simple.
putting a delete on the cruze is not gonna roll coal.
thats where you started.
i bought the car with the intention of deleting before things went wrong, not if....when, cuz they will...all these parts wear out.
will they wear out at 500,000 miles? 200,000 miles? sooner? only time will tell....our trucks were great for aboot 10,000 hrs...then look out.
if everyone that drove new diesels with emission equipment had just bought something used or continued driving their old vehicles, there would be even less pollution, buying/making new things pollutes, everything pollutes....no, 16 ppl deleting emission isnt the end of the world.
to get result (A) less nox in the air, what is the real cost? as in the production and transportation of the def....are we any further ahead?
everybody is always focused on one thing instead of the big picture....so proud that they recycled some things...coulda just bought less....recycling is the least important in the hierarchy 

wtf rambling


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> black smoke is unburned fuel.
> if you tune your vehicle for mpg, no black smoke.
> if you tune your vehicle to roll coal, black smoke.
> its that simple.
> ...


of course the systems will eventually need serviced and or replaced or removed. I am little less than 20k miles, so I just plan to drive and see how it goes, I am not a big fan of delete but my perspective may change over time if I still have the car. I had a old Buick diesel in 80s and with high sulfur fuel and virtually no emissions it smoked a lot, new ctd is nothing short of amazing from that perspective. Just hope emissions works for as long as I own the car.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> of course the systems will eventually need serviced and or replaced or removed. I am little less than 20k miles, so I just plan to drive and see how it goes, I am not a big fan of delete but my perspective may change over time if I still have the car. I had a old Buick diesel in 80s and with high sulfur fuel and virtually no emissions it smoked a lot, new ctd is nothing short of amazing from that perspective. Just hope emissions works for as long as I own the car.


again zero relevance.

come drive my 2012 kenworth with delete, theres no smoke. at all....even in 2nd gear goin up 20% grades.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> again zero relevance.
> 
> come drive my 2012 kenworth with delete, theres no smoke. at all....even in 2nd gear goin up 20% grades.


With all due respect, pollution isn't all black smoke, i am done with your non sense and attitude.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

Man people get so touchy about this topic. A couple deleted 4 banger 2.0 deisels, tuned to still run clean and not produce smoke, literally is not going to hurt anything. At all. Half a million of them, maybe. 15 of them? In the whole country?Absolutely not.

That's literally like arguing with someone because they have a house thats 20 sq/ft bigger than yours and they use a tiny bit more electricity and the pollution caused by generating it is going to kill you and everyone you know and cause the end of the world. 

Everything causes pollution. Everything. Like borax said, if you're so concerned about it, you need to look at the big picture. Not a few small deleted diesels that are tuned to run clean. If you're so against the delete, don't buy it, simple.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

IndyDiesel said:


> With all due respect, pollution isn't all black smoke, i am done with your non sense and attitude.


i accept your surrender


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

boraz said:


> i accept your surrender


Ok well I accept you think you are a know it all and think it is cool to try and steam roll over folks that don't agree with your view. :th_down:


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Snipesy said:


> Diesel, I don't have exact number but judging by the year of your old diesel it emits around *10* times more NOX than a DELETED cruze does today.
> 
> And a deleted cruze does about 20 times more NOX than a normal diesel. That means your old thing emits *200* times more NOx than a typical diesel cruze.
> 
> Let that sink in a little. Have fun sleeping tonight.


So, in other words, it's roughly equivalent to about 5 of the 2009+ stock VW TDI's. Let's let that one sink in!


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

That is a very narrow view of a very big picture. I am referring to everybody that deletes and/or performance tunes their vehicle (and it is not just CTDs, but all emissions that are being tampered with). You say they still run clean, but not as clean. Not hurt anything at all? Really? WRONG! 
It must really suck watching TV on a 19" Magnavox B/W TV while most of us are viewing on a 70" 4k HDR TV with all content enabled. Put on your glasses please :shipwrecked:​


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

"I heat my home with wood as well. I guess I should go without heat all winter because wood heat puts off pollution?"

Does not apply! Was your home designed to be heated by wood? Yes. Exactly!

"I'm willing to bet there's less than 20 deleted diesel cruzes in this country."

Was a CTD designed to be run with a modified tune and a delete? No. Nuff said.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

diesel said:


> So, in other words, it's roughly equivalent to about 5 of the 2009+ stock VW TDI's. Let's let that one sink in!


You say that like it's some sort of alibi.

I'm against doing deletes, and I'm the one who made it possible haha. But frankly the IC engine is dying and the focus should be more on just getting rid of them all rather than actually trying to keep it on expensive life support.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Snipesy said:


> You say that like it's some sort of alibi.
> 
> I'm against doing deletes, and I'm the one who made it possible haha. But frankly the IC engine is dying and the focus should be more on just getting rid of them all rather than actually trying to keep it on expensive life support.


Not at all. I am against deletes, which is why my Cruze is still stock. My comment was really more of a jab at VW than anything. A modern 2009+ diesel with full emissions equipment is "only" 5 times worse than a 1984 diesel. Does that mean that my Tempo is environmentally friendly? Absolutely not. But it was built to the standards of the time and is untampered. We could get into the lesser discussion about all old cars. The older the car in general, the worse the emissions. There are a lot of people into the old car hobby. Is it environmentally responsible? Well, that could be argued 2 ways. The emissions from an old car could be argued to be a lot better for the environment than everything it takes to manufacture (and eventually scrap) a new car. 

Either way, it's kind of funny we have a similar situation in a way. We are against deletes. You make software to allow that to happen, and I drive a 1984 Tempo diesel. Nobody's perfect, right?


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

sailurman said:


> "I heat my home with wood as well. I guess I should go without heat all winter because wood heat puts off pollution?"
> 
> Does not apply! Was your home designed to be heated by wood? Yes. Exactly!
> 
> ...


Of course it applies. The argument everyone is making is about pollution. Oh, and no. My house wasn't designed to be heated by wood. It was designed to be heated by oil and electric. And I removed the oil, and instead use wood. Does this mean that my house won't function as a house now?

And a crescent wrench wasn't designed to be used as a hammer. Yet I'm pretty sure at some point, almost everyone has done it. Doesn't change the fact that it works. 

You seem to get pretty caught up on how stuff was "designed". Nuff said


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

justin13703 said:


> Of course it applies. The argument everyone is making is about pollution. Oh, and no. My house wasn't designed to be heated by wood. It was designed to be heated by oil and electric. And I removed the oil, and instead use wood. Does this mean that my house won't function as a house now?
> 
> And a crescent wrench wasn't designed to be used as a hammer. Yet I'm pretty sure at some point, almost everyone has done it. Doesn't change the fact that it works.
> 
> You seem to get pretty caught up on how stuff was "designed". Nuff said


pro tip, if you cant get a wrench in there, air hammer with extension gets fasteners loose.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Okay. Puff Puff Pass. I will now walk away from the damaged goods section of WalMart. C YA


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

sailurman said:


> "I heat my home with wood as well. I guess I should go without heat all winter because wood heat puts off pollution?"
> 
> Does not apply! Was your home designed to be heated by wood? Yes. Exactly!
> 
> ...


NO?? What car is designed to run on a tune and delete? None of which I am aware. I do have the feeling though that the amount of pollution my car emits every time they have to do a manual Regen (which is monthly right now) is > than the amount of a CTD with a delete. I will however, take a Cruze with a delete that is running and running well over a CTD sitting on the side of the road because its got a bad SCR fluid CEL or an O2 or a bad Def tank heater. Have you had the reduced power or 100 mile message yet? I have!!


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

diesel said:


> Not at all. I am against deletes, which is why my Cruze is still stock. My comment was really more of a jab at VW than anything. A modern 2009+ diesel with full emissions equipment is "only" 5 times worse than a 1984 diesel. Does that mean that my Tempo is environmentally friendly? Absolutely not. But it was built to the standards of the time and is untampered. We could get into the lesser discussion about all old cars. The older the car in general, the worse the emissions. There are a lot of people into the old car hobby. Is it environmentally responsible? Well, that could be argued 2 ways. The emissions from an old car could be argued to be a lot better for the environment than everything it takes to manufacture (and eventually scrap) a new car.
> 
> Either way, it's kind of funny we have a similar situation in a way. We are against deletes. You make software to allow that to happen, and I drive a 1984 Tempo diesel. Nobody's perfect, right?


With all due respect, I am not at all sure that a delete is putting more pollution into the environment given the fact that deleted cars are getting 15-25% better fuel mileage than non-deleted cars and are therefore using less fuel and therefore less emissions into the environment. If Mr. X is doing 1000 per tankful on a delete and Mr. Y is doing 750, who's polluting more in the CTD?


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

DslGate said:


> With all due respect, I am not at all sure that a delete is putting more pollution into the environment given the fact that deleted cars are getting 15-25% better fuel mileage than non-deleted cars and are therefore using less fuel and therefore less emissions into the environment. If Mr. X is doing 1000 per tankful on a delete and Mr. Y is doing 750, who's polluting more in the CTD?


The untuned one.

SCR reduces NOx emissions by more than 90% and the DPF reduces particulate matter by about 75%. It's crazy how well it works. 

But it's definitely extra complications - though if you think about it, it's similar to how early gas emissions equipment was implemented. If you look at the emissions system on my '81 Z28 (and a similar system that was on my '86 IROC), you have a giant belt-driven smog (air) pump, a mess of plumbing/lines that run to the exhaust manifolds, to the cat, and all sorts of solenoids and valves and vacuum lines in between. Compare that to my Cobalt, where it hardly has anything near that level of visual complexity - though working far more efficiently and doing a far better job.

Give it some time, it'll all get less complicated, cheaper, and work better. Soon enough it wont' even be a big deal.

Don't mistake though - I am ripping all that **** (carefully, because its worth money) off the Camaro next year when I throw on long tubes and true-duals.


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## sailurman (Sep 29, 2016)

Without research, the ignorant will just follow the herd.........


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

It's pretty clear that the opinions on the matter are very polarized, and passionate. Makes for some er... interesting discussion. Bottom line is, people are gonna do what they're gonna do. I'm pretty sure that if someone has their mind made up to do a delete, nobody on a forum can convince them to do otherwise. I think we all just have to agree to disagree on the topic and move on with our day.


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

diesel said:


> It's pretty clear that the opinions on the matter are very polarized, and passionate. Makes for some er... interesting discussion. Bottom line is, people are gonna do what they're gonna do. I'm pretty sure that if someone has their mind made up to do a delete, nobody on a forum can convince them to do otherwise. I think we all just have to agree to disagree on the topic and move on with our day.


That's pretty much where I left this topic, too. No sense in getting everybody's blood up over it. 190,000 miles of experience shows that the system works as designed over the long haul. That's good enough for me.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

beaurrr said:


> That's pretty much where I left this topic, too. No sense in getting everybody's blood up over it. 190,000 miles of experience shows that the system works as designed over the long haul. That's good enough for me.


so if his tranny is fubared that shows it wasnt designed over the long haul as well?


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## beaurrr (Aug 27, 2016)

boraz said:


> so if his tranny is fubared that shows it wasnt designed over the long haul as well?


Well, we weren't talking about the transmission; we were talking about the emissions system. And I don't know that his transmission is "fubared", only that he was experiencing a mild and intermittent flare. And anyway, even if his transmission blew up yesterday, I'd say he had a _reasonable _service from that transmission. Not great, but certainly reasonable. But alas, that is not the case.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

DslGate said:


> With all due respect, I am not at all sure that a delete is putting more pollution into the environment given the fact that deleted cars are getting 15-25% better fuel mileage than non-deleted cars and are therefore using less fuel and therefore less emissions into the environment. If Mr. X is doing 1000 per tankful on a delete and Mr. Y is doing 750, who's polluting more in the CTD?


You can believe all you want but the fact of the matter is emissions is rated by grams per mile, not emissions per gallon of fuel. Fuel economy has nothing to do with emission output. In fact, energy input is inconsequential to emission output. All that matters is the pollutants coming out of the tailpipe, not how well the engine converts fuel into horsepower. 

I am for deletes. I am saving up for some by next spring. That doesn't mean I need to be willfully ignorant of how the standards are set. 

Why am I deleting? I love racing, I need reliability. I know that when I do it, I will be outside the parameters of the test. I live in BFE, work near Chicago. I won't be tested and there's less pollutants where I live due to the sparseness of the population. If I lived in the Suburbs or the city of Chicago, I wouldn't think of deleting. 

The smog in Chicago from 10 years ago to now has been visibly reduced. Know what else happened in the last 10 years? DPF's. All those years of in-cylinder EGR's, EGR's, catalytic converters have helped but the amount of buses, tractor trailers, and garbage trucks spewing black smoke is now almost non-existent.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

oldestof11 said:


> You can believe all you want but the fact of the matter is emissions is rated by grams per mile, not emissions per gallon of fuel. Fuel economy has nothing to do with emission output. In fact, energy input is inconsequential to emission output. All that matters is the pollutants coming out of the tailpipe, not how well the engine converts fuel into horsepower.
> 
> I am for deletes. I am saving up for some by next spring. That doesn't mean I need to be willfully ignorant of how the standards are set.
> 
> ...


Do you think this Cruze ctd is going to be a race car? Your post makes little sense to me. Does it perform well for a small to medium car, yes, is it a race car? Hardly think so.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

IndyDiesel said:


> Do you think this Cruze ctd is going to be a race car? Your post makes little sense to me. Does it perform well for a small to medium car, yes, is it a race car? Hardly think so.


I bracket race. Local track, NHRDA, and hopefully next year with ODSS. 

But lets discuss my car and what I want to do with it and not what this post is about.


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

Before there's any more doubt placed. 

My photo of me lined up









Heartbeat Photography took this.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

oldestof11 said:


> Before there's any more doubt placed.
> 
> My photo of me lined up
> 
> ...


It's nice that you use your car the way you want to use it. Not the way everyone else tells you that you should use it. Apparently you will get beat up on here for using it in a way that differs from the normal expectations of just driving it to work and back.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

What did you end up running? 

Stock, or tuned?


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## oldestof11 (Apr 3, 2016)

MP81 said:


> What did you end up running?
> 
> Stock, or tuned?


100% stock down to the LRR OEM tires. I had TCS and ABS turned off. Best time that day was high 16s in Drive. 

A couple weeks later at my local track I did low 16s manually shifting.


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