# Cruze Tuning



## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

is this a chip or a reflash? would we would be able to return to stock settings for warranty purposes.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

It's a reflash, chips (unless it's an ECU replacement does not do anything except harm your engine). If you purchase the GTTuner cable, they'll send you tha stock ECU tune and you can always reflash back and forth in a few minutes.

All pricing and information is available on their website. They're a reputable company that did wonders for the Chevy Cobalt community and have experience on other platforms.


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## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

so im assuming they send you the tune via email and you can keep both tunes handy, looks like i have a dealer near me might have to go check it out.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

Yup! They'll send you the tunes via email and you either rent the tuner or buy the cable and use your laptop to upload the tune to your existing ECU


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## bpipe95 (Nov 1, 2010)

I want to know what software they are using. HP showed NO interest in the platform when we contacted them. Hrm....

Those are some pretty **** solid gains though.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

I want to say they use some custom software and use a GT Tuner to upload it to the car butttttttt I could be wrong


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## jlalill (Nov 1, 2010)

How does this 'tune' effect fuel economy?


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## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

do you know how much boost the turbo puts out from the factory?


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## gunner22 (Nov 20, 2010)

This is exciting news for the turbo folks, but what this car really needs is a transmission tune for those of us with an autobox. This extra power will be for not if the tranny doesn't wake up.


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## montana (Nov 12, 2010)

This is a great way to get some amazing gains....check out the dyno sheet


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...the 'stronger' *6T45* gearbox would be a swap-in; it's the same size I understand.

...the 6T40 gearbox is what's used now for gasoline engines, and the 6T45 is alaready being used on the Diesels elsewhere.


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## bpipe95 (Nov 1, 2010)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...the 'stronger' *6T45* gearbox would be a swap-in; it's the same size I understand.
> 
> ...the 6T40 gearbox is what's used now for gasoline engines, and the 6T45 is alaready being used on the Diesels elsewhere.



What does that have to do with the car needing a better transmission tune?


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## cruze-control (Jul 23, 2010)

i think he is suggesting other ways to liven up the transmission aside from getting a different tune for the transmission. its not exactly the easiest way but its still another way to get more power to the ground.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...actually, it's about getting that _"...extra..."_ power to the wheels/ground through a tranny that can _"...handle..."_ that extra power without scattering its guts/gears.

...the existing 6T40 has hp/torque _limits_, which might be exceeded by "tinkering" with things.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

Here are some updates from Vince @ Trifecta:



> Update: I received a phone call from someone today who wanted to know what kind of 0-60 gains we achieved with the tune. I told him that it was a good question and immediately headed out to the car with my laptop.
> 
> I use Palmer Performance's ScanXL for logging, and it has a virtual dyno and virtual drag strip feature (both work really well). The virtual drag strip also gives you 0-60.
> 
> ...


 


> Yes - the transmission tune from the factory is terrible. In fact, by the time I bought my car, GM had already released an updated transmission tune (including a new operating system).
> 
> The Cruze uses a brand new transmission controller (called the T76) which is very similar to the T43 used in the existing 6sp automatics.
> 
> ...


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

This should address both the questions about the transmission not being strong enough (it is) and the 0-60 times.

Not sure about fuel economy, I'm sure it would drop slightly since you're pushing more boost


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...the *6T40* (MH8) is rated for 1.4L-2.5L engines and has a 277 lb·ft torque capacity...which the 2.0LT Buick engine easily matches (258 lb·ft).

...the *6T45* (MH7) is used on the Diesel-engined Cruzes in the rest of the world because of its higher torque capacity.

...it was a _"...better SAFE than SORRY..."_ suggestion only.


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## cruze-control (Jul 23, 2010)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...the *6T40* (MH8) is rated for 1.4L-2.5L engines and has a 277 lb·ft torque capacity...which the 2.0LT Buick engine easily exceeds (258 lb·ft).
> 
> ...the *6T45* (MH7) is used on the Diesel-engined Cruzes in the rest of the world because of its higher torque capacity.
> 
> ...it was a _"...better SAFE than SORRY..."_ suggestion only.


you have a pretty valid point. 277 lb/ft of torque isnt impossible for the cruze to reach. plus diesel engines pump out so much more torque than gasoline engines. even if you dont plan on getting that much torque out of your motor its still a good idea to not push it close to its limits. id rather build a car that can handle 500hp but only put out 250hp rather than something that can handle 300hp and put out 280hp.


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## bpipe95 (Nov 1, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> Here are some updates from Vince @ Trifecta:


Great info shawn!


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## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

ZincGT said:


> do you know how much boost the turbo puts out from the factory?


any one?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

22psi on the tune




> Here's some numbers from the stock tune:
> 
> Commanded AFR @ WOT (PE Mode): 10.3:1
> Commanded Ignition Advance: 8*
> ...


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## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> 22psi on the tune


thank you sir, obviously the turbo is small but what is it comparable to in size? Ko3 for audi/vw or smaller?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

i think its a k03 variant


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## gunner22 (Nov 20, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> Here are some updates from Vince @ Trifecta:


Great info. I will be adding a TCM tune as soon as it is available.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

the TCM tune is available, you get it along with the ECU tune. it turns the manual tap up/down into a sport mode by decreasing response time, etc.


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## gunner22 (Nov 20, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> the TCM tune is available, you get it along with the ECU tune. it turns the manual tap up/down into a sport mode by decreasing response time, etc.


I have the 1.8. I don't see a tune for the 1.8/auto combo available yet on their site.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

He needs a tester for the 1.8l though, contact him if you'd like, maybe you guys can work something out


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## LARRY01Z28 (Dec 4, 2010)

im going to get this as soon as i get exhaust and intake.


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## motorhedfred (Nov 13, 2010)

Doesn't the Cruze come already equipped with exhaust and intake ?

MHF


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

he means an aftermarket exhaust and intake.. something larger with better airflow


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## motorhedfred (Nov 13, 2010)

Yeah, I know....I was joking.


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## bpipe95 (Nov 1, 2010)

LARRY01Z28 said:


> im going to get this as soon as i get exhaust and intake.


I will caution you on this, as the exhaust videos I have found have been less than tolerable. With a displacement this small, it just reminds me of the sound a honda D16 makes... Noise, pure awful noise....


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## LARRY01Z28 (Dec 4, 2010)

yeah i mean after market, it might sound a little weird. but ill try it and see if i dont liek it i can put the stock stuff back on.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

your best bet might be to get a local shop to craft one up so they make it quiet, but still sound good - without sounding ricer


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## LARRY01Z28 (Dec 4, 2010)

I agree Shawn. Ive got a real good firend who does exhaust work. he usually just charges me for materials. so i wont be out that much money.


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## 2011lt1 (Dec 13, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> your best bet might be to get a local shop to craft one up so they make it quiet, but still sound good - without sounding ricer



flowmaster 60 series. i have one on my teg and it sounds awesome. just like a apexi ws2. can't hear it at idle or cruise speeds only under WOT. so not ricey. i hate ricers and their 20$ cheap ebay mufflers. 

the cruise would probably benefit from a full catback beings it is a FI. anyone know the stock exhaust diameter yet?


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## motorhedfred (Nov 13, 2010)

The annoying, raspy sound we often label "ricer" on 4 cylinder engines is usually caused by mufflers with small internal volume. These of course are also the cheapest mufflers to produce.

That's when "advertising technology" takes over and promises the young guys with the backwards baseball caps (fitted, of course) maximum horsepower gains with amazing sound.

The best way to get a nice deep tone is with a large internal volume muffler with about 2-4 feet of tailpipe. Larger internal volume also means good flow. There's plenty of room for a Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler in the stock location. I had a SuperTurbo catback system on my old 1988 GMC S15 with that raspy old 2.5L 4 cylinder and it had a nice deep rumble.....at least to my ears. These cars are too nice to turn into chainsaws on 4 wheels. 

Don't forget what I said about using an F-body muffler with single in, dual outs. Lots of internal volume, readily available from many companies and dual tailpipes.

MHF


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

motorhedfred said:


> The annoying, *raspy* sound we often label "ricer" on 4 cylinder engines is usually caused by mufflers with small internal volume...These cars are too nice to turn into *chainsaws* on 4 wheels.
> MHF


...what? you don't like that "ringy-dingy" two-stroke sound (wink,wink)?


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## LARRY01Z28 (Dec 4, 2010)

i think ive got my hands on a flowmaster for a f-body. so i hope after christmas and everything slows down i can get it put in and just see what it sounds like.


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## 2011lt1 (Dec 13, 2010)

motorhedfred said:


> The annoying, raspy sound we often label "ricer" on 4 cylinder engines is usually caused by mufflers with small internal volume. These of course are also the cheapest mufflers to produce.
> 
> That's when "advertising technology" takes over and promises the young guys with the backwards baseball caps (fitted, of course) maximum horsepower gains with amazing sound.
> 
> ...




yes, basically its a straight through design that sucks, and a high flow with baffles sounds much better. my flow master is a baffled muffler where as the "cheap" ones are not, just basically a glass pack. its not just the 4cyl thats sounds bad its the cheap mufflers these guys use. you ever a hear a mugen twin loop on a itr? nothing raspy, ricey or crappy about it. you tube it, sounds great. or what about a 2.5 rs impreza with a ws2? small engines can sounds great when they are built right with quality parts.
the cruze will sound great, when good aftermarket companies start putting out quality cat backs. my fear is there will be a lack of support for the vehicle since its marketed as a economy car and not a performance car. hopefully boost will save that from happening.


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## RSchmidt624 (Dec 21, 2010)

I am very new to the tuning game and was wondering if you guys had a walkthrough on how to do this. Where to hook things up and all that...The site says 10-20 minutes so it cant be too difficult.

Found it!

http://www.trifectaperformance.com/6Steps/6Steps-1.htm


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

Yup it's extremely simple to connect and flash


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## 2011lt1 (Dec 13, 2010)

Shawn, what kind of mpg's are you getting with the re-flash? and how does the rpm band feel? does it still fall on its face after 4500 rpm like the stock flash?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

I haven't been able to get reflashed yet. Hoping to purchase once my bonus comes in. 

From the dyno charts there is more power and torque across the entire band which is awesome, should easily be noticable


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## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

what are the chances of us getting a video of some sort, maybe a side by side comparison of stock vs chipped? Shawn do you know, or live close to the tuner?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

No, he lives in WA and I live in NY. He didn't get a video of the dyno run but did comment that the car is STILL incredibly quiet even after the tune, I guess the guys who performed the dyno could barely hear the car

And please don't refer it to "chipped". This is not a chip, it's a real tune that is reflashed over your existing ECU programming


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## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> No, he lives in WA and I live in NY. He didn't get a video of the dyno run but did comment that the car is STILL incredibly quiet even after the tune, I guess the guys who performed the dyno could barely hear the car
> 
> And please don't refer it to "chipped". This is not a chip, it's a real tune that is reflashed over your existing ECU programming


I understand what you mean about "chipped" but in the end they both do the same thing, but in this situation there is no physical chip so i will not refer to it as that any more.

My concern is the fact that i live at 5000+ ft and depending how he rights the tune it may or may not leave some parameters to adapt for them selfs, and if that is the case my car would run super rich up here.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

I would imagine he would adjust for that when he mails you the tune. If you're concerned though, you can purchase the tuner cord and data log with a laptop then send it to him for adjustments


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## ZincGT (Dec 1, 2010)

I would imagine he would leave it open as well. I really want to do this but I need to finish/start my mustang ugh haha


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## Targus (Jan 2, 2011)

lets try this see the result:

remove IAT sensor connector,
connect 6K8 ,
drive the car, 
feel the differences at 1000-2500rpm.


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## bpipe95 (Nov 1, 2010)

Targus said:


> lets try this see the result:
> 
> remove IAT sensor connector,
> connect 6K8 ,
> ...


Are you ******* serious?


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## Mike220 (Jan 5, 2011)

FYI, chevy has implemented some security features to find if you have been running a tune.........

The ecm logs your last 10 flashes. I'm not sure if it tracks the .s19, bin or hex files. Don't think your going to get fancy and just reflash your stock cal 10 times either it will keep the date of the flashes. If all of them are the day you bring it in they will know something is up. There could be a few more. Ford has one for matching engine/wheel/mph gauge and transmission to verify they all match (atleast on the diesels). 

You could try another ECM, but i am not certain if GM uses a bolt/clip combo to tell if the ecm has been removed either (nissan does this on the 370z). 

As much as I would love a new cal I can't do it especially since I bought the extended full coverage. Perhaps after that I will but for me it's not worth the risk. I don't want to steer anyone away but rather to just mention potential consequences that they may not be aware of.


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## cerbomark (Dec 13, 2010)

I had my last two chevy trucks flash tuned. One was a live tune. They provide great results but most auto companies are wise to this and are combating it because they don t want to warrenty this type of modification. Many horror stories about bad tunes destroying motors and transmissions. I m not saying a reputable tuner will cause damage but GM feels differntly about it. It was hands down the best performance mod for the buck!


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

I ordered the tune for my 2011 Chevy Cruze LTZ last week and hope to receive it tomorrow. I elected to get the EZ Flash cable. I will post my impressions of the engine and transmission tunes in the next couple of days.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...you just might want to read this _thoroughly_ if your car is still under the warranty and you want it to stay that way:

*Aftermarket Calibrations and GM Warranty Coverage - GM Techlink*


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## Targus (Jan 2, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> I ordered the tune for my 2011 Chevy Cruze LTZ last week and hope to receive it tomorrow. I elected to get the EZ Flash cable. I will post my impressions of the engine and transmission tunes in the next couple of days.


wondering the result.
and could u pls. inform ECU type the car? 5WY?


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> I ordered the tune for my 2011 Chevy Cruze LTZ last week and hope to receive it tomorrow. I elected to get the EZ Flash cable. I will post my impressions of the engine and transmission tunes in the next couple of days.


Very cool!!!!!!!!!!! Love to hear what you think.


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## LARRY01Z28 (Dec 4, 2010)

Spaceme let us know how that tune goes. im dying to get one.


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

I installed the tune tonight in my Cruze. Overall impressions are very good. Up shifts in automatic mode occur much sooner and are a good bit firmer. It does not take near as much peddle pressure to cause the transmission to downshift to a lower gear also. In e-mails back and forth from Vince at Trifecta, he told me that when in manual mode, the TCM will still shift the transmission automatically but the shifts are much firmer so this is basically sport shift mode. To go into TAP shift mode, you just tap up or down as normal. And this is exactly how it works in my car. As for power, it definitely has a lot more of it. Lower RPM torque and power increases are easily felt and it pulls much harder when you hit the RPM where the turbo spools up. The tune definitely wakes this car up. Vince also told me that the boost PSI from the factory is 12-15 PSI and the tune increases this to 20-22 PSI and you can definitely feel it in the seat of your pants. I decided to purchase the EZ Flash cable as I already have a laptop. Installation was easy. Load up the program and follow the on-screen instructions. Installation of both ECM and TCM tunes took about 15 minutes to load up into the car. And then I test drove it and recorded a few data logs. 

One of the main reasons that I got the Chevrolet Cruze with the 1.4L Turbo engine is because I knew that the turbo would be able to add more power with only a tune and Trifecta's tune does just that.

I will post more impressions in the next few days as I drive the car more. Thanks.


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> I installed the tune tonight in my Cruze. Overall impressions are very good.


So, how much $$$? Web site? Can it be "reversed" back to stock with no dealer knowing???????


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

montgom626 said:


> So, how much $$$? Web site? Can it be "reversed" back to stock with no dealer knowing???????


I think the tune is $300 and you can either buy the flash cord or put a deposit on the GTTuner and then return it to Trifecta when you're done.

Trifecta Performance Custom Tuning :: Home Page and News is the website

You can reflash back to stock for major warranty work although you'll need to either re-rent the tuner or buy the cable. If you buy the cable he includes the stock tune bundled with his tune

Contact him and check the website, theres a ton of ways to do it


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> Contact him and check the website, theres a ton of ways to do it


Nice. I am going to wait for your reports. You did the tranny and the motor? Did you have the choice to do just the ECM and leave the TCM stock???


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

Yes, with the EZ Flash cable that I got I did have the option to install just the ECM tune without the TCM tune. I did both.


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> Yes, with the EZ Flash cable that I got I did have the option to install just the ECM tune without the TCM tune. I did both.


Cool, can you restore the original flash for both the TCM and ECM?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

montgom626 said:


> Cool, can you restore the original flash for both the TCM and ECM?


 Yes, you can flash back to stock using the cord or re-renting the tuner


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

just so i understand it.

the tunes you get (Stock and Modified) is $300, and the cable you buy (and keep for reprograming) is another $200.

and that's it. that's all you need...


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

Actually the tune is $350. It was $300 initially until the end of 2010. The EZ Flash cable is $200 if you purchase it with a tune. If you only purchase the tune and then decide to get the cable at a later date, then the cable is $250. 

With the EZ Flash cable, all you then need is a laptop. The tune file, stock tune file, and the EZ Flash software and drivers for the cable are provided by Trifecta through e-mail. The EZ Flash software also allows you to record datalogs of your vehicle to send to Trifecta, should specific adjustments be needed for the tune in your specific vehicle. The software also allow you to read and clear trouble codes if needed.

It is a good deal, adds significant power and torque, is easy to use, and can be reversed if you need to. Trifecta's customer service has also been very good and they have responded to all of my e-mail inquiries quickly.


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> It is a good deal, adds significant power and torque, is easy to use, and can be reversed if you need to. Trifecta's customer service has also been very good and they have responded to all of my e-mail inquiries quickly.


And might just void your warranty. There is a good possibility they can know that your ecm was modified and put back to stock. If I want more power & torque, I would buy a camaro.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

not all of us have $60,000 to throw around because we're having a midlife crisis and need a thrill. there is really something to be said about extracting massive amounts of power out of a very, very small displacement motor Robertbick. You call it a waste of time. that's what i call Jenga, but we're not all alike 

thank god.


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> It is a good deal, adds significant power and torque, is easy to use, and can be reversed if you need to. Trifecta's customer service has also been very good and they have responded to all of my e-mail inquiries quickly.


I want one! I am having a mid-life crisis  It sounds so amazing. The folks at Trifecta imply that the have a transparent flash, so no "foot print" and that it can be reversed back to OEM. And the power increase for sooooo little money. I am impressed. You can do the TCM or ECM or both. I would love the power


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> Trifecta's customer service has also been very good and they have responded to all of my e-mail inquiries quickly.


They answered all my emails in minutes. Wow, that is customer service with a capital C


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

montgom626 said:


> I want one! I am having a mid-life crisis  It sounds so amazing. The folks at Trifecta imply that the have a transparent flash, so no "foot print" and that it can be reversed back to OEM. And the power increase for sooooo little money. I am impressed. You can do the TCM or ECM or both. I would love the power


Yes, that is true. In the EZ Flash program when loading in the custom tune, it asks you if you want to apply the "Transparency Option".

As for voiding my warranty, I am not worried about that. The tune can always be reversed.

Also, I had a custom tune installed in my previous vehicle about 2 weeks after I purchased it. I had it in to the dealer twice for warranty work and did not run into any problems with the service department at the dealership.


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

Knightslugger said:


> not all of us have $60,000 to throw around because we're having a midlife crisis and need a thrill. there is really something to be said about extracting massive amounts of power out of a very, very small displacement motor Robertbick. You call it a waste of time. that's what i call Jenga, but we're not all alike
> 
> thank god.


Where did I call it a waste of time???


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> Also, I had a custom tune installed in my previous vehicle about 2 weeks after I purchased it. I had it in to the dealer twice for warranty work and did not run into any problems with the service department at the dealership.



Nice to hear. I love this stuff. I used to modify my cars all the time. Now, with the complexity of cars and cost per HP gained with mods, I stopped. Not enough bang for the buck. This Ezflash is perfect. No external evidence, and it can be reversed. And, for the HP/TQ improvement, some serious bang for the buck.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

robertbick said:


> If I want more power & torque, I would buy a camaro.


^ Infers that the quicker and easier route to more power is to spend gobs of money on something else that all ready has power.

ie: Tuning a 1.4t is a waste of time, i'd rather just get a Camaro.


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

Knightslugger said:


> ^ Infers that the quicker and easier route to more power is to spend gobs of money on something else that all ready has power.
> 
> ie: Tuning a 1.4t is a waste of time, i'd rather just get a Camaro.


Infer all you want. Getting a little defensive aren't you?  The Cruze is an economy car... why do people want to try and change an economy car into a sports car?

ohh... and the Camaro is gobs of money???


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

robertbick said:


> Infer all you want. Getting a little defensive aren't you?


Maybe...



> ohh... and the Camaro is gobs of money???


comparitively? $350 vs. $60,000? yeah, a Camaro is a gob of money.



> The Cruze is an economy car... why do people want to try and change an economy car into a sports car?


because even an economy car can win a WRC, or WTTC, or SCCA title with just a little modification. certainly less than $40,000 worth.

A car is simply a car. how one uses it is what makes a race car, a sports car, or an economy car.


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## robertbick (Jan 1, 2011)

Knightslugger said:


> Maybe...
> 
> comparitively? $350 vs. $60,000? yeah, a Camaro is a gob of money.
> 
> ...


Where do you see $60K for a Camaro??? What drugs are you taking? Try comparing the base costs of each... $17K for a Cruze and $22.7K for a Camaro. Yeah, that's gobs of money. You can't just compare $350 for a tune to the price of another car... you must include the cost of the cruze to begin with.

Cars ARE broken down into classes. You hear it all the time. I didn't say you can't change the car. Forget it... I'm finished with this crap... have better things to do with my life.


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## Targus (Jan 2, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> Yes, that is true. In the EZ Flash program when loading in the custom tune, it asks you if you want to apply the "Transparency Option".
> 
> As for voiding my warranty, I am not worried about that. The tune can always be reversed.
> 
> Also, I had a custom tune installed in my previous vehicle about 2 weeks after I purchased it. I had it in to the dealer twice for warranty work and did not run into any problems with the service department at the dealership.


I believe the remapped engine perfonmance definetely better than before.
could pls. inform me your ecu type ? You can find the ecu, side of the battery. could you pls. write all letters on it?


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

robertbick said:


> Where do you see $60K for a Camaro??? What drugs are you taking? Try comparing the base costs of each... $17K for a Cruze and $22.7K for a Camaro. Yeah, that's gobs of money. You can't just compare $350 for a tune to the price of another car... you must include the cost of the cruze to begin with.
> 
> Cars ARE broken down into classes. You hear it all the time. I didn't say you can't change the car. Forget it... I'm finished with this crap... have better things to do with my life.


Don't get upset... we can play by your rules. no problem... i can kill this kind of mentality over and over with any rules you want.


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

robertbick said:


> The Cruze is an economy car... why do people want to try and change an economy car into a sports car?


Not trying to turn it into a sports car. Just trying to improve on an already good vehicle. Turbo'ed cars can have the best of both worlds. You can get excellent gas mileage with low and mild acceleration. You can get excellent power and torque if you hit the gas hard.

I have always thought of a turbo on a car as being an unlimited tank of Nitrous Oxide that you can add anytime by just pressing the gas pedal. With the tune, you are basically just adding a bigger shot of unlimited Nitrous.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

robertbick said:


> Where do you see $60K for a Camaro??? What drugs are you taking? Try comparing the base costs of each... $17K for a Cruze and $22.7K for a Camaro. Yeah, that's gobs of money. You can't just compare $350 for a tune to the price of another car... you must include the cost of the cruze to begin with.
> 
> Cars ARE broken down into classes. You hear it all the time. I didn't say you can't change the car. Forget it... I'm finished with this crap... have better things to do with my life.


Lets play nice ladies.

With any amount of money you can make the car into anything you want.


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## Knightslugger (Jan 11, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> With any amount of money you can make the car into anything you want.


and that is why we Mod.


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

Knightslugger said:


> and that is why we Mod.


You are tracking !!! Money= speed. And for a little car like the Cruze to get up and scoot is so sweet.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

...as my father said about my "hot-rodding" days: _"...so, you're gonna *improve* it to *death*..."_


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

bpipe95 said:


> I want to know what software they are using. HP showed NO interest in the platform when we contacted them. Hrm....
> 
> Those are some pretty **** solid gains though.


We write our own tuning software. Nobody supports the Cruze, yet, except us, to my knowledge.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

ZincGT said:


> I understand what you mean about "chipped" but in the end they both do the same thing, but in this situation there is no physical chip so i will not refer to it as that any more.
> 
> My concern is the fact that i live at 5000+ ft and depending how he rights the tune it may or may not leave some parameters to adapt for them selfs, and if that is the case my car would run super rich up here.


Modern engine control systems use a mass airflow sensor to measure the actual amount of air going into the engine to create proper fuel mass calculations. The fuel ratio will be correct if you're at 0' altitude or 12000' altitude.

However, altitude DOES pose a tuning challenge with regard to boost management. If we "max out" the turbocharger at sea level to get our power numbers, maxxing it out at elevation may create an underboost situtation, where the ECM wants more boost than the turbo is capable of creating to the extent it causes a check engine light.

Being that our tune is not "canned", and it is dialed in "interactively" through a datalogging process, we work individually with each customer and study how our tune runs on their vehicle, so even if this were to occur, we could address it.

The ECM has torque calculation adjustments for altitude, though, so it will dial back boost levels on its own if it is at altitude.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

ZincGT said:


> any one?


At sea level, between 12 and 15psi


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> the TCM tune is available, you get it along with the ECU tune. it turns the manual tap up/down into a sport mode by decreasing response time, etc.


Actually, it ADDS a new "sport" mode. It doesn't replace or disable the TAP mode.

When the shifter is in D, it is in standard drive (economy mode on our tune)

When you move the shifter to the manual quadrant, prior to TAP'ing up or down, it is in "sport" mode. The DIC displays an M with no number next to it. The transmission will continue to shift automatically in this mode, but with increased firmness, and more actively.

From this "sport" mode, if you TAP up or down, it goes into TAP mode, displaying Mx where x is the currently selected gear.


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## TSURacing (Jan 1, 2011)

Hi Vince, Welcome and thanks for producing a tune for the Cruze so early.

Please tell us more about the transparency of your tune. The numbers your tune puts out look great, but being a brand new car I, for one, am concerned about the warranty implications.
If I were to have an engine issue, say the water pump failed, would a GM tech be able to see that the vehicle has been modified with your tune? Even a real smart tech? 
What is your biggest durability concern on this engine with your tune? I am assuming that you would not put out a product that you felt would induce early engine failure, but I am just curious about what you saw when tuning, and avoided. 
On your Cruze, has the gas mileage chaged much since you have developed your tune? I would expect that there will be a cost to the added performance, just wondering what you think it might be.

Sorry for the million questions


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

TSURacing said:


> Hi Vince, Welcome and thanks for producing a tune for the Cruze so early.
> 
> Please tell us more about the transparency of your tune. The numbers your tune puts out look great, but being a brand new car I, for one, am concerned about the warranty implications.
> If I were to have an engine issue, say the water pump failed, would a GM tech be able to see that the vehicle has been modified with your tune? Even a real smart tech?
> ...


As much as I'd love to sell anybody a tune, this is what I tell people:

If you absolutely cannot tolerate having your warranty invalidated by the manufacturer, DON'T modify it.

Having said that, our software has a transparency option that when enabled makes the tune appear to be stock to any other modules connected to the vehicle (or inside the vehicle). This has the side effect of not leaving a finger print on the ECM/TCM, or in the reflash history tracking stuff they've employed.

However, if you bring your car to the dealer and it is making 10psi of boost more than it is supposed to, that might be enough evidence for them to invalidate the warranty. It would be our recommendation that you only bring the car to the dealer with the stock tune on it.

We include the stock tune with all of our orders, and you can optionally purchase the EZ Flash cable to keep so you can flash back to stock any time.

Whether a dealer will look for an aftermarket tune is up to them, and what their policy is. I've heard of it both ways - car comes in with a blown engine and they just replace it no questions asked, or car comes in with a broken power window motor and the customer is told when they pick the car up that their warranty is invalidated due to the tech finding a custom tune on it.

No matter what, if you push the powertrain harder by upping the power output, you are putting more stress on it. If you drive around at 20psi all day long, you will probably see diminished service life from the vehicle. If you just like to get on the gas every now and again, having a high output tune likely won't result in any perceivable diminished service life. GM is well-known for overbuilding everything, though, so maybe it doesn't make a difference either way. Seeing the build specs for this engine, I have no durability concerns, personally. Iron block, thick piston crown, and piston cooling oil-jets all suggest they designed this engine from the ground up for boost, and to be reliable. In many ways it's more advanced than the LNF used in the turbo Cobalt, etc.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Now for the $5/fillup question: What fuel grade is your tune set up for?

The regular tune runs quite well on 87 octane, I'm assuming you've set yours up to run on 91. As a potential ECO model buyer, I'm not looking to run premium in my engine as it costs over 10% more.

If it is set up for 91, are you planning to see what can be achieved on 87-89 octane fuel?

Do you foresee an option of adding methanol injection to work in concert with 87 octane to give similar performance as a straight 91 octane tune? This option would give the flexability of burning 87 all the time (much cheaper) and simply "supplementing the boost" with methanol injection when the right foot beckons.

Also, an un-related question: You say the tune allows up to 22psi of boost. Judging by the dyno results, the boost "peaks" rather early and then trails off at higher RPM (likely due to limited airflow of the turbo). How much boost is seen at higher RPM?


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## montgom626 (Jan 16, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> No matter what, if you push the powertrain harder by upping the power output, you are putting more stress on it. If you drive around at 20psi all day long, you will probably see diminished service life from the vehicle. If you just like to get on the gas every now and again, having a high output tune likely won't result in any perceivable diminished service life. GM is well-known for overbuilding everything, though, so maybe it doesn't make a difference either way. Seeing the build specs for this engine, I have no durability concerns, personally. Iron block, thick piston crown, and piston cooling oil-jets all suggest they designed this engine from the ground up for boost, and to be reliable. In many ways it's more advanced than the LNF used in the turbo Cobalt, etc.


Vince, how nice to see you here! For all who are reading this blog, Vince has been great with emails. Very quick reply and very nice. Bravo!!


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Now for the $5/fillup question: What fuel grade is your tune set up for?
> 
> The regular tune runs quite well on 87 octane, I'm assuming you've set yours up to run on 91. As a potential ECO model buyer, I'm not looking to run premium in my engine as it costs over 10% more.
> 
> ...


The tune requires premium fuel (91+ octane). The extra boost requires better fuel. The good news is higher octane fuel in general results in better economy, and our tune improves economy beyond the stock tune (provided you keep your foot out of it!) ;-) I'm happy to work with any customer to tune it for 87 octane, but the same kind of gains we got on premium fuel should not be expected.

I am actually working on a design of an ECM-controlled water/methanol injection system for this vehicle. That's a very good suggestion to use it in conjunction with the lower octane fuel. I believe with water/methanol injection we might be able to make some very nice increases in power above and beyond where we're at.

The boost is 22psi across the board, but this engine is designed for torque, not horsepower. The stock tune starts dying at 5000 RPM, also. This might be in the cam grind (or cam phasing). In our tune I actually pulled the automatic shift points back slightly to keep it in the fat torque curve longer. Aftermarket exhaust and intake systems might open up this little engine for the top end.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

montgom626 said:


> Vince, how nice to see you here! For all who are reading this blog, Vince has been great with emails. Very quick reply and very nice. Bravo!!


Thanks, it's nice to be here!


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

At 22psi I presume the turbo is running at max efficiency? So I'm glad you noted that intake and exhaust may open it up more. I was thinking of ways to shift the power band slightly higher from maybe 2500-5500 instead of 2000-5000

Would even increase fuel economy since @ 70mph we're turning around 2400rpm's i believe


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> I am actually working on a design of an ECM-controlled water/methanol injection system for this vehicle. That's a very good suggestion to use it in conjunction with the lower octane fuel. I believe with water/methanol injection we might be able to make some very nice increases in power above and beyond where we're at.


That is very interesting. Will this be a product that will be sold by Trifecta?


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> At 22psi I presume the turbo is running at max efficiency? So I'm glad you noted that intake and exhaust may open it up more. I was thinking of ways to shift the power band slightly higher from maybe 2500-5500 instead of 2000-5000
> 
> Would even increase fuel economy since @ 70mph we're turning around 2400rpm's i believe


Pretty darned close. It's also running near maximum turbine speed. The intake duct work, throttle body and intake manifold are TINY on this engine, which isn't going to help high RPM power. I've been referring to this engine jokingly as the "Dinkotec".

Most of the economy gains we found were surprisingly in the transmission. From the factory, even with the torque converter clutch engages, the TCM programming allows up to 300RPM "slip" at highway speeds. We actually set this to zero during highway cruise for complete TCC engagment, and no slip which means no wasted fuel. As you ease into the throttle, the TCC is allowed to slip so the car is responsive.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> That is very interesting. Will this be a product that will be sold by Trifecta?


It depends on the popularity, at the very least we'll provide the tuning side of it - my prototype is using a water/meth injection kit sold by STS Turbo designed for a twin turbo Corvette, but any water/meth system can be made to work.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

VinceTrifecta said:


> ...I am actually working on a design of an ECM-controlled water/methanol injection system for this vehicle. That's a very good suggestion to use it in conjunction with the lower octane fuel. I believe with water/methanol injection we might be able to make some very nice increases in power above and beyond where we're at.


...sounds like the old '62-'63 Oldsmobile F85 Cutless (215cid) Jetfire and it's methanol-water "Turbo-Rocket Fluid" system.

...be sure there's a "empty fluid" feedback to the driver; that was the big problem with Olds, people ran out of fluid but continued driving as normal.

..."Welcome Aboard, Vince."


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...sounds like the old '62-'63 Oldsmobile F85 Cutless (215cid) Jetfire and it's methanol-water "Turbo-Rocket Fluid" system.
> 
> ...be sure there's a "empty fluid" feedback to the driver; that was the big problem: people ran out of fluid but continued driving as normal.
> 
> ..."Welcome Aboard, Vince."


"Turbo-Cruze Fluid" LOL

Yes, the STS kit has a pressure sensor on the outlet of the pump, so if there's a lack of fluid pressure, the sensor either opens or closes - at any rate, I plan to feed that signal back into the ECM, so in the event of a system failure boost/timing will be reduced (and possibly even set a CEL to let the driver know)

Thanks! ;-)


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

With Water/Methanol injection, how much boost would be able to be run?

Also, how much Water/Methanol would need to be injected per minute for the Cruze's turbo engine?


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## VictoryRed08 (Feb 16, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> The tune requires premium fuel (91+ octane). The extra boost requires better fuel. The good news is higher octane fuel in general results in better economy, and our tune improves economy beyond the stock tune (provided you keep your foot out of it!) ;-) I'm happy to work with any customer to tune it for 87 octane, but the same kind of gains we got on premium fuel should not be expected.


I think I'm going to buy an intake once it's available then I'd love to work with you on a tune to 87 octane.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> With Water/Methanol injection, how much boost would be able to be run?
> 
> Also, how much Water/Methanol would need to be injected per minute for the Cruze's turbo engine?


I dont think we'll see any more boost, but we can definitely advance the timing with water/methanol injection. Not sure what kind of flow rates we'll need.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> I dont think we'll see any more boost, but we can definitely advance the timing with water/methanol injection. Not sure what kind of flow rates we'll need.


I'm guessing the "boost" portion of this response is related to the turbo already being close to maxed out running at 22psi?

Regarding your earlier comments about the sloping top end, are you able to fudge around with the cam timing events? Maybe some top end is just a tweak or two away?

I'm not familiar with any turbos as small as the one on the cruze... does anyone know what it is and if there exists a simple small compressor housing size upgrade?

A word for those pinning big hopes on plumbimg upgrades increasing power output; though I haven't seen a Cruze engine bay yet in person, based on past experiences the OEMs rarely leave much "easy" power on the table these days. Having said that, the plumbing on the 1.4T may be generous enough at stock power levels and become a restriction when tuned. Time will tell, but I'm betting the "bang for the buck" factor will decrease rapidly once the tune is completed.

I'd hapily be proven wrong, though, especially if I end up buying one.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm guessing the "boost" portion of this response is related to the turbo already being close to maxed out running at 22psi?
> 
> Regarding your earlier comments about the sloping top end, are you able to fudge around with the cam timing events? Maybe some top end is just a tweak or two away?
> 
> ...


There are still plenty of OEM cars out there that get easy power at a good price.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> There are still plenty of OEM cars out there that get easy power at a good price.


Not usually _just_ through plumbing upgrades. Changing the size of an intake tube, throttle body or exhaust usually has little effect on an otherwise stock powertrain... the OEMs are too smart to leave much "easy" hp on the table that way. Upgrading your stock air filter to a K&N usually does more than changing the plumbing it's attached to.

Where there are "decent" increases in power the cost is very high compared to the value of a "tune" on a factory turbo car.

Spinning the OEM blower faster than the OEM intended on a Turbo/Supercharged vehicle changes everything, since the flow rates increase beyond what the manufacturer tested the engine at during development. Tuning a car like the Cruze to operate at 22psi instead of 15psi means increased flow and the potential for gains by upgrading the plumbing.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Blue Angel said:


> Not usually _just_ through plumbing upgrades. Changing the size of an intake tube, throttle body or exhaust usually has little effect on an otherwise stock powertrain... the OEMs are too smart to leave much "easy" hp on the table that way. Upgrading your stock air filter to a K&N usually does more than changing the plumbing it's attached to.
> 
> Where there are "decent" increases in power the cost is very high compared to the value of a "tune" on a factory turbo car.
> 
> Spinning the OEM blower faster than the OEM intended on a Turbo/Supercharged vehicle changes everything, since the flow rates increase beyond what the manufacturer tested the engine at during development. Tuning a car like the Cruze to operate at 22psi instead of 15psi means increased flow and the potential for gains by upgrading the plumbing.


I never made any argument against N/A or FI I merely stated that there are plenty of cars out there that make good gains at good prices. Good exmaples however of an N/A motor that makes good gains and an FI motor would be the K20(N/A) or the GTI(FI) motor with a reflash.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> I'm guessing the "boost" portion of this response is related to the turbo already being close to maxed out running at 22psi?
> 
> Regarding your earlier comments about the sloping top end, are you able to fudge around with the cam timing events? Maybe some top end is just a tweak or two away?
> 
> ...


My experience thus far has been that GM does not leave power on the table in the cam phasing. I have not found any gains from changing the cam phasing, yet.

So far, our experience has been the bolt-on mods don't hold a candle to what can be achieved with a tune on the [GM] factory turbocharged vehicles. LNF gains about 25% power with a tune, this engine is even better - 31% horsepower and 38% torque. They end up being seriously detuned from the factory.


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## TSURacing (Jan 1, 2011)

Hi Vince
Did you do any other mods to the Cruze along with your tune? Specifically, did you modify the intake system or replace the air filter with a K&N or similar. Some of the guys on the board have noted a restrictive looking baffle system on the plumbing leading into the airbox. I was just curious if you left all that alone, or chose to mod it to assist the tune. If it is stock on your car, then it seems that the systems is not at all restrictive to a stock Cruze.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

TSURacing said:


> Hi Vince
> Did you do any other mods to the Cruze along with your tune? Specifically, did you modify the intake system or replace the air filter with a K&N or similar. Some of the guys on the board have noted a restrictive looking baffle system on the plumbing leading into the airbox. I was just curious if you left all that alone, or chose to mod it to assist the tune. If it is stock on your car, then it seems that the systems is not at all restrictive to a stock Cruze.


The dyno results are with the stock intake. I did tinker with these things on my car, though. I bought a spare airbox lid, and hacked it up so I could put a cone filter on the inlet of the MAF. It didn't seemed to change performance at all suggesting the airbox isn't much of a restriction on these engines.


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## VictoryRed08 (Feb 16, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> The dyno results are with the stock intake. I did tinker with these things on my car, though. I bought a spare airbox lid, and hacked it up so I could put a cone filter on the inlet of the MAF. It didn't seemed to change performance at all suggesting the airbox isn't much of a restriction on these engines.


Just out of curiosity, how did it sound with the cone air filter? I've been thinking about figuring out a way to attach a cone filter and still attach MAF sensor.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

VictoryRed08 said:


> Just out of curiosity, how did it sound with the cone air filter? I've been thinking about figuring out a way to attach a cone filter and still attach MAF sensor.


My honest opinion? I didn't like the way it sounded. The turbo sounds strange on this car, it makes more of a "wooshing" sound than a "turbine" sound. You could hear the air bypass events, also, which happen more often on this car than you might think. With no performance gains to be had with my make-shift intake I went back to the stock air box.

Maybe I'll post some pictures on how I made it work. I basically cut the airbox lid up to make room to screw a cone filter on the end of the MAF screen that the factory put in there (I also removed the grid from the MAF screen). Then I sealed the MAF screen to MAF tube joint so no unfiltered air would get in.


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## VictoryRed08 (Feb 16, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> My honest opinion? I didn't like the way it sounded. The turbo sounds strange on this car, it makes more of a "wooshing" sound than a "turbine" sound. You could hear the air bypass events, also, which happen more often on this car than you might think. With no performance gains to be had with my make-shift intake I went back to the stock air box.
> 
> Maybe I'll post some pictures on how I made it work. I basically cut the airbox lid up to make room to screw a cone filter on the end of the MAF screen that the factory put in there (I also removed the grid from the MAF screen). Then I sealed the MAF screen to MAF tube joint so no unfiltered air would get in.


Hmm thats somewhat disappointing. I've been patiently waiting to see what performance mods will provide for the Cruze. I'm heart-set on getting a tune but i'm looking for an audible difference without touching the exhaust as well.

It'd be nice to see a pic of what you came up with.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

VictoryRed08 said:


> Hmm thats somewhat disappointing. I've been patiently waiting to see what performance mods will provide for the Cruze. I'm heart-set on getting a tune but i'm looking for an audible difference without touching the exhaust as well.
> 
> It'd be nice to see a pic of what you came up with.


Well, I would respectfully ask that you take my opinions with a grain of salt. LOL. My intake system was a hacked up stock airbox. The companies that are making aftermarket intake systems might get a much better sound out of them.


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## VictoryRed08 (Feb 16, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> Well, I would respectfully ask that you take my opinions with a grain of salt. LOL. My intake system was a hacked up stock airbox. The companies that are making aftermarket intake systems might get a much better sound out of them.


LOL will do Vince.


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## TSURacing (Jan 1, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> Well, I would respectfully ask that you take my opinions with a grain of salt. LOL. My intake system was a hacked up stock airbox. The companies that are making aftermarket intake systems might get a much better sound out of them.


However, you do not anticipate an increase in performance in stock trim, or with your tune. correct?


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

VictoryRed08 said:


> LOL will do Vince.


 I think ZZPerformance is sending me one of their intakes once it is ready, I'll do a full review on it when I get it.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

TSURacing said:


> However, you do not anticipate an increase in performance in stock trim, or with your tune. correct?


 Not really. We don't see much power gain on a tuned LNF with an intake, either. I suspect this is partly due to the fact that you have a compressor to suck the air into the engine. You could have a much more restrictive intake system before you run into performance limitations versus, say, a naturally aspirated vehicle that relies on atmospheric pressure and a low pressure area in the cylinder to pull the air/fuel charge into the cylinder.

Having said that, many intake systems can raise the power, but it is not due to airflow improvements. The increase can happen IF the ECM has not been tuned because the intake system fools the ECM into thinking there is less air going into the engine, which means the ECM will calculate less delivered torque, which means it will turn the boost up to compensate for this perceived low level of torque. This has a nasty side effect of leaning out the fuel mixture. This is not a problem on LNF because the ECM remains in closed loop under full throttle/boost due its factory wideband O2 sensor. The Cruze does not have this, and does not stay in closed loop during boost.


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## VictoryRed08 (Feb 16, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> I think ZZPerformance is sending me one of their intakes once it is ready, I'll do a full review on it when I get it.


Music to my ears. Can't wait to hear about it. They might just have my money if they come out with it before K&N.


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## Spaceme (Jan 20, 2011)

If there are any gains to be had on the intake, I think it would have to be a complete replacement of the airbox and the intake tubing. Smooth tubing, larger in diameter could help but I don't think it would be much as the stock airbox is huge with a very large surface area on the filter.

I think that the parts that ZZP is planning on selling (O2 sensor housing, downpipe, upgraded intercooler and pipes) plus a better exhaust system in combination with the Trifecta tune are the ways to go to increase power.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> So far, our experience has been the bolt-on mods don't hold a candle to what can be achieved with a tune on the [GM] factory turbocharged vehicles.


This is exactly what I was suggesting with my earlier comments.



VinceTrifecta said:


> LNF gains about 25% power with a tune, this engine is even better - 31% horsepower and 38% torque. They end up being seriously detuned from the factory.


Gains on the LNF are surely going to be less %-wise when compared to the 1.4T as the LNF already runs on 91 octane fuel. The 1.4T is starting off running on 87 octane regular, so a good percentage of the increases you're seeing on the Cruze will be attributed to the upgrade in fuel.

As far as being detuned from the factory, only an aftermarket tune optimised for 87 octane will determine how "detuned" the Cruze is with its OEM programming.

I'm not doubting that there are gains to be had using 87 octane fuel (I hope there are!), but we should keep this as apples-to-apples as possible.

OEMs tune cars to run rich to keep cylinder temperatures controled under even the most extreme conditions. By leaning out the mixtures and optimising timing at WOT we can improve power, but we will be reducing knock resistance at extreme temperatures. This is a fairly safe tradeoff in most cases as typical use will never approach the extreme conditions under which the engine is designed to "survive".

I wouldn't, however, take a "tuned to the limit" turbo Cruze and tow a heavy trailer up a steep mountain pass with my foot to the floor... that would be asking for trouble.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

^ Unless the Cruze was on the trailor and you were on your way to the track =D


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

^ That would be totally acceptable.


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## Orange (Mar 6, 2011)

Spaceme said:


> Yes, that is true. In the EZ Flash program when loading in the custom tune, it asks you if you want to apply the "Transparency Option".
> 
> As for voiding my warranty, I am not worried about that. The tune can always be reversed.
> 
> Also, I had a custom tune installed in my previous vehicle about 2 weeks after I purchased it. I had it in to the dealer twice for warranty work and did not run into any problems with the service department at the dealership.


So is anyone going in for warranty work / issues being charged / refused so far? (curious)


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## Zenman (Feb 13, 2011)

Hearing about these tunes and how easy it is to switch between the stock tune and the trifecta one by just moving the shifter makes me wonder why GM doesn't include this with the car already. I mean, it would be a HUGE selling point. The only reason I can come up with on why they don't is that the custom tune shortens the life of the engine. But I have no evidence to back that up.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Zenman said:


> Hearing about these tunes and how easy it is to switch between the stock tune and the trifecta one by just moving the shifter makes me wonder why GM doesn't include this with the car already. I mean, it would be a HUGE selling point. The only reason I can come up with on why they don't is that the custom tune *shortens the life* of the engine. But I have no evidence to back that up.


...and, it has not been "tested & proven" to EPA (or CALTRANS) to not produce polution.


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## Zenman (Feb 13, 2011)

Ahh of course, I didn't even think about that factor.


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## Zenman (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm guessing most people who play around with these custom tunes are leasing their cars rather than owning them.


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> Most of the economy gains we found were surprisingly in the transmission. From the factory, even with the torque converter clutch engages, the TCM programming allows up to 300RPM "slip" at highway speeds. We actually set this to zero during highway cruise for complete TCC engagment, and no slip which means no wasted fuel. As you ease into the throttle, the TCC is allowed to slip so the car is responsive.


And the stock TCM programming, as released, is that way for a reason. They are already locking the TC every instance they can that doesn't degrade the life of the trans. Given the increasing fuel economy requirements, do you really think they would just leave the low hanging fruit?


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## elwood58 (Feb 2, 2011)

GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> And the stock TCM programming, as released, is that way for a reason. They are already locking the TC every instance they can that doesn't degrade the life of the trans. Given the increasing fuel economy requirements, do you really think they would just leave the low hanging fruit?


This is spot on. GM spent millions in R&D developing the car, and tuning it's performance for the optimal balance of performance, fuel economy, and emissions. Why try and turn a small displacement power plant into a muscle car? People seem to want to tune the car for 5% of the drive time, effectively ruining the performance for the other 95%. Most mods seem to either degrade fuel economy, or the lifespan of the car. 

I get it. The desire to customize and personalize in deeply engrained in the ownership experience. For the most part, I prefer to tweak appearance and infotainment, and leave the drive train alone, at least until you have exhausted the 5 yr 100,000 mile warranty period. 

Most folks would be better off building something for the track, autocross, off road experience etc.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

elwood58 said:


> This is spot on. GM spent millions in R&D developing the car, and tuning it's performance for the optimal balance of performance, fuel economy, and emissions. Why try and turn a small displacement power plant into a muscle car? People seem to want to tune the car for 5% of the drive time, effectively ruining the performance for the other 95%. Most mods seem to either degrade fuel economy, or the lifespan of the car.
> 
> I get it. The desire to customize and personalize in deeply engrained in the ownership experience. For the most part, I prefer to tweak appearance and infotainment, and leave the drive train alone, at least until you have exhausted the 5 yr 100,000 mile warranty period.
> 
> Most folks would be better off building something for the track, autocross, off road experience etc.


You can tune the car for performance and economy. Just because a car has a custom tune doesn't mean that fuel economy was degraded. I gained 2/3 mpg cty/hwy on my custom tune with I/H/E+tune when compared to stock. No two cars are the same and they all share the same tuning programing. A custom tune for your car in no way degrades the life of your motor if done correctly by a competent tuner. 

edit: Also aftermarket modifications do *not* void your warranty just for being there. If you stick with reputable companies then 99% of the time you should be fine as long as you correctly installed said modification.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> Given the increasing fuel economy requirements, do you really think they would just leave the low hanging fruit?


You got that right!

People don't often realise the reasons for the way cars are designed. It is VERY difficult to modify something functional on a vehicle without affecting it's functionality/durability/reliability/economy/emissions performance. OEMs spend YEARS testing products against all kinds of scenarios that most people wouldn't encounter so that the 1% of people who do don't end up with a failing product.

I don't pretend to know about transmission durability concerns related to locking up a torque converter (automatic transmissions are one piece of auto-tech I know/care relatively little about), but I can guarantee you GM doesn't "leave" something out that will improve fuel economy by any reasonable margin, especially on a high volume car like the Cruze.

Will locking up the torque converter at cruise break everyone's transmissions? Probably not, but it will more than likely compromise a few of them depending on how they drive and use their vehicle.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

But we all know that OEM's leave large margins to maintain safety and durability. Why use a transmission rated for 277ft/lb torque for a car that barely makes 150? 

Build strong, under power, and you have a safe car that will last 20 years. For those of us only planning on keeping the car 3-5 years, we can sacrifice some of it's "long term" durability. Also, when it breaks, we can build it better and stronger


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

shawn672 said:


> But we all know that OEM's leave large margins to maintain safety and durability. Why use a transmission rated for 277ft/lb torque for a car that barely makes 150?
> 
> Build strong, under power, and you have a safe car that will last 20 years. For those of us only planning on keeping the car 3-5 years, we can sacrifice some of it's "long term" durability. Also, when it breaks, we can build it better and stronger


I wish they would have did this with my G6 with the GT70. It's supporting 90% of it's torque capacity which leaves little room for power adders.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

The cobalt base was similar, they used the same transmission from the v6 malibu that created 250hp. the cobalt made about 140hp


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

Before you all get too excited with misinformation.(sorry Shawn, wasn't paying attention when you inquired)

The max engine torque rating is 177 lb ft. The max trans turbine torque rating is 277 lb ft because of convertor torque multiplication. 

Assuming a 15% loss through the tranny, the tune posted at at the begining of the thread exceeds the max rating of the transmission.


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> The cobalt base was similar, they used the same transmission from the v6 malibu that created 250hp. the cobalt made about 140hp


The V6 had a 6T45 behind it.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> The V6 had a *6T45* behind it.


...the *6T45* is a basically a _beefed-up_ *6T40*, but it differs by also using a *wider/stronger* drive (coupling) chain than what the 6T40 uses.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

edit: 6T70

Just for S&G does anyone know why GM decided to put this in my car?


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> Before you all get too excited with misinformation.(sorry Shawn, wasn't paying attention when you inquired)
> 
> The max engine torque rating is 177 lb ft. The max trans turbine torque rating is 277 lb ft because of convertor torque multiplication.
> 
> Assuming a 15% loss through the tranny, the tune posted at at the begining of the thread exceeds the max rating of the transmission.


Does this mean the maximum torque we should be making at the engine is 177ft/lb? I did not think the transmission was the limiting factor on this platform. Please advise


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> Does this mean the maximum torque we should be making at the engine is 177ft/lb? I did not think the transmission was the limiting factor on this platform. Please advise


 
Yes, maximum engine torque rating of the 6T40 trans is 177 ft lbs. At that engine torque, the turbine shaft sees 277 ft lbs., which is the turbine torque limit.

Sorry about the incomplete info I gave you earlier. Depends on where you are looking at applying the torque.

.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

I guess that could put a damper in our tuning.. hmmm
Vince's tune is pushing 193ft/lb torque, I'm not sure how much he's driven it but I don't think it's blown up yet. He's normally extremely smart and safe about these things so I'm wondering why he tuned for such a high torque.


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## GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer (Feb 26, 2011)

(assuming 15% loss through the trans) 193 ft lbs at the wheel is equal to 227 ft lbs at the crank.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

I hope Vince doesn't mind but I'm posting his email here, the guy is brilliant if you ask me and he's never failed us in the past:



> Hi Shawn,
> 
> GM has torque ratings on all their transmissions but the aftermarket has
> repeatedly shown they can withstand well in excess of their torque ratings.
> ...


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

Thanks Shawn I was going to come up here and post this as well.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

shawn672 said:


> I guess that could put a damper in our tuning.. hmmm
> Vince's tune is pushing 193ft/lb torque, I'm not sure how much he's driven it but I don't think it's blown up yet. He's normally extremely smart and safe about these things so I'm wondering why he tuned for such a high torque.


This is just the beginning. Wait until people start putting larger turbochargers on these. ;-)


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

VinceTrifecta said:


> This is just the beginning. Wait until people start putting larger turbochargers on these. ;-)


Vince, what turbocharger is used on the Cruze? It would be interesting to see what the compressor charts look like.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Vince, what turbocharger is used on the Cruze? It would be interesting to see what the compressor charts look like.


Someone once told me it was a K03 derivative.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Blue Angel said:


> Vince, what *turbocharger* is used on the Cruze? It would be interesting to see what the compressor charts look like.


...I'm not Vince, but it's a *Honeywell-Garrett Model MGT1446MZGL*, set for 16.0 psi max boost (for GM); GM #55565353


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

70AARCUDA said:


> ...I'm not Vince, but it's a *Honeywell-Garrett Model MGT1446MZGL*, set for 16.0 psi max boost (for GM); GM #55565353


Using the OEM search at garrettbyhoneywell dot com and inputting the GM part number, this is what I get:

Part NumberGarrett Part Number781504-5001SDirect Service Replacement-OE55565353TurboModelMGT1446MZGLTechnologyWastegateActuationPneumaticVehicleClassificationPVManufacturerCHEVROLETModelCruze 1.4 Ecotec 140PSYear2009FuelGasolineEngineManufacturerOPELCodeA14NETEmission RegulationEuro VDisplacement (L)1.4Cylinders4Power (KW HP PS)103 KW138 HP140 [email protected] 4900rpmTorque (Nm LB/Ft)200 Nm 148 LB/Ft @ 1850rpm

(the copy/paste is a little messy)

Maybe I'll try contacting them to see if I can get some more specific info since the model number doesn't line up with any of their aftermarket turbos.


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## Reckless (Mar 15, 2011)

any word on the 87 octane tune? ... as much as the 30% power gains entices me... just in increase in throttle response, and the tuning to the 6spd auto would satisfy me.... for awhile....


...maybe...


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

when is there gonna be a 1.8 tune cause 15 more hp is always nice


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

jakkaroo said:


> when is there gonna be a 1.8 tune cause 15 more hp is always nice


You won't see a peak 15hp gain on an N/A I4 most of the benefit will be mid range torque and throttle response. Very little if any gains will be found in your actual peak power numbers.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

Reckless said:


> any word on the 87 octane tune? ... as much as the 30% power gains entices me... just in increase in throttle response, and the tuning to the 6spd auto would satisfy me.... for awhile....
> 
> 
> ...maybe...


Our tunes are customized, and we'd be happy to sell you one that was safe for 87 octane. I just wouldn't expect there to be any gain in power on 87 octane fuel.


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

jakkaroo said:


> when is there gonna be a 1.8 tune cause 15 more hp is always nice


We're waiting for someone to contact us who wants to get a tune for their 1.8 car - we have the tune and software support done, we just haven't had a chance to have someone install it, send us datalogs and provide feedback ,yet.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

VinceTrifecta said:


> We're waiting for someone to contact us who wants to get a tune for their 1.8 car - we have the tune and software support done, we just haven't had a chance to have someone install it, send us datalogs and provide feedback ,yet.


Does it cost $FREE.50?!?! I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there that would like it. Are you going to offer different base maps eventually for different aftermarket products? i.e. I/H/E combinations? Or are you doing custom tunes pretty much via e-mail starting from a base point?


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## TRIFECTA (Feb 17, 2011)

JDM-USDM Love said:


> Does it cost $FREE.50?!?! I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there that would like it. Are you going to offer different base maps eventually for different aftermarket products? i.e. I/H/E combinations? Or are you doing custom tunes pretty much via e-mail starting from a base point?


All of our tunes (except the budget tunes) are "remote tuned" meaning we send a good base tune as a starting point, and the customer can then datalog their vehicle and send us the logs for analysis, and we'll make any adjustments necessary.


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

VinceTrifecta said:


> All of our tunes (except the budget tunes) are "remote tuned" meaning we send a good base tune as a starting point, and the customer can then datalog their vehicle and send us the logs for analysis, and we'll make any adjustments necessary.


That's a steal!!!! Maybe if people saw what owners of other vehicles are paying for just base maps they would realize what they are missing out on. I paid 700 for just the dataloging/transfer device and a base map.


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## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

ill do it


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## CruzeBop (Mar 17, 2011)

Gee I'd be keen to see what Trifecta can squeeze out of a 2.0 turbo diesel.


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## Bossy70 (Feb 25, 2011)

GM_6T40_Trans_Engineer said:


> And the stock TCM programming, as released, is that way for a reason. They are already locking the TC every instance they can that doesn't degrade the life of the trans. Given the increasing fuel economy requirements, do you really think they would just leave the low hanging fruit?


 
I wonder what reasons/scenarios there are for not locking it up fully...

It seems that Vince's tune does what common sense would tell you, lock it up in cruise so you increase gas mileage and decrease heat. Maybe they saw increase wear when going over hills or something.


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## TGreyCruze (Feb 21, 2011)

Im really happy that trifecta has come out with a tune on our cars so quickly. Im almost positive that i will be purchasing this tune by the 6-7th of next month. Hopefully ill be happy with it as well.


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## shawn672 (Oct 31, 2010)

I haven't met anyone that wasnt excited by it


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## Reckless (Mar 15, 2011)

excellent, I don't mind being a guinea pig. just need the wifey to look the other way long enough to move some money around LOL 

more power isn't really what I'm after anyways... throttle response, and a more enthusiest freindly tranny tune for me 

it might be just a daily driver, but I've never liked oem tranny programs ment for joe blow public 




VinceTrifecta said:


> Our tunes are customized, and we'd be happy to sell you one that was safe for 87 octane. I just wouldn't expect there to be any gain in power on 87 octane fuel.


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## t.b.brady (Apr 2, 2011)

CruzeBop said:


> Gee I'd be keen to see what Trifecta can squeeze out of a 2.0 turbo diesel.


me to as I own one!

The thing that bought me to this forum \ thread was this...



VinceTrifecta said:


> Actually, it ADDS a new "sport" mode. It doesn't replace or disable the TAP mode.
> 
> When the shifter is in D, it is in standard drive (economy mode on our tune)
> 
> ...


sounds fantastic wish I could add that to my diesel at the same time as tune! Just read all 17 pages of this thread! have also noticed some slip at 100km/hr (our normal speed limit) though when in 110km/hr zone doing 110 - 115km it seems to lock up solid and save me some fuel. it just seems a bit high before it locks up as cant drive around at 100km/hr with it locked 

2010 Holden Cruze CDX 2.0L Diesel. 150HP / 330NM (Z20DMH?)
6 speed auto (GM 6T45)

want to get a few more km on before I flash a tune. only have 7500km on the clock.. not ready to void warranty yet.

would go down the path of being able to flash stock back on before taking car into dealer to be serviced. as they seem quiet switched on at my dealer.


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## Brezerker (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm wondering if anyone with an ecu tune has gone into a dealership yet for any kind of work???
And if they saw the ecu re tune and if so what was said about the warranty


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## Boost (Aug 13, 2011)

Brezerker said:


> I'm wondering if anyone with an ecu tune has gone into a dealership yet for any kind of work???
> And if they saw the ecu re tune and if so what was said about the warranty


Again (and again) I would add from a dealer technician's point of view that while GM and the dealer may have strict policies in place regarding mods and there is even a bulletin out about calling warranty if you find a tune - 99% of the time in the real world THEY DO NOT SEE IT OR IF THEY DO THEY DO NOT CARE. The only time I have really seen problems is when either the customer has a horrible attitude, or the car comes in with severe engine damage and the programmer's box is laying on the passenger seat. Or maybe, in some instances when there is a really complicated and difficult to diagnose issue and they can't figure it out so they start looking for mods to blame it on. I can honestly tell you that with all due respect most techs I have worked with at the GM dealer aren't as bright and technical as you might imagine of hope. They have a hard time diagnosing and programming factory control modules, to be looking at special screens and calibration history. I don't want to generalize though! That has truly been my personal experience. You WILL NOT have an issue with routine warranty repairs and recalls because of your "mostly" invisible tune. 

I also would like to mention that most of the time we find out about tunes because the customer tells us on the service drive. (Then we all test drive it to lunch lol). When I suspect a tune, I always have to pull it with my EFILive, because it's easier for me to compare it to a stock file that way than looking at parameters on a scan tool. 

Disclaimer, an intentional investigation WILL reveal a modified program, GM even gives instructions on how to check for it in the bulletin I mentioned.


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## Dayhoff35 (Sep 7, 2011)

i put a trifecta tune on a friends car the other day, gave substatial increase in power and crisper shifting check out my thread for he results! Also if your near maryland and you have any trifecta questions let me know and ill be more then happy to help!


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## dennisu (Jun 17, 2011)

I can get a good chirp out of mine at the 1st and 2nd shift (not sure if it starts in 2nd gear already) with the shifter in "sports *M*ode" and a good bit of throttle. Other than that when in "sports *M*ode" and you use a light to moderate throttle it operates more like a standard older model vehicle with a larger block engine . i.e. feels like a mid 80's to 90's V6/V8. I am using that mode for most driving as it just feels nice. Thanks Vince


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## Brezerker (Aug 26, 2011)

this is a dyno run stock and trifecta tune from this morning the gains are amazing,gains might have been better but wife just filled up with 88 octane so I'm sure with 91 octane gains might have been a little better,here is my dyno sheet,i data logged and will be talking to Vince to see what else we can get out of my cruze,also i am a dealer for trifecta so if your in my area let me know if your interested in a tune..

P.S
only thing done to my cruze as of yet is a trifecta tune witch makes me think GM does not know what a stock cruze motor does stock as my base hp was 147 and stock torque was 178 

2011 1.4t auto bone stock (other than trifecta tune)

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...dynoresize.jpg


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## Aeroscout977 (Nov 25, 2010)

Dynos tend to sway results one way or another. Im sure GM knew what their oytput was on the motor. This isnt a car that they would under rate on purpose for the sake of insurance as they have in the past.


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## 98sonoma (Nov 30, 2010)

Are there any authorized Trifecta tuners in Indiana? 
Would it be better to get a K&N Intake then get a tune or would that not make too big a difference?


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## Brezerker (Aug 26, 2011)

98sonoma I'm working with a company in Chicago IL on an intake so if your in the market for an intake give me about 2 weeks to get the prototype and do some data logs and dyno runs on this intake,i just got the cad drawings and the intake looks cool 

New Mexico Trifecta Dealer


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## Dayhoff35 (Sep 7, 2011)

It would be better to get the tune and intake at the same time really.


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## Brezerker (Aug 26, 2011)

yea I'm going to use the prototype and have Vince save the tune with this intake I'm working on ill try and post pics of the intake after i convert the cad design to a pic ppl can see


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## Uggggs (Sep 19, 2011)

If you compare the dyno charts of Vtuner and the trifecta tune, Vtuner makes more power from 5k on with 4psi less boost. Does anyone who uses the Trifecta tune know whether the boost tails off at the end or does it hold 22psi til the end? Also most engines especially turbo's are most efficient at 5250rpm and the power should peak past that point but the trifecta tune actually is losing power before it. Which makes me think he didnt optimize the top end. Where as Vtuner peaks slightly past, not much more but holds the power longer. This really on matters in a race of course but says a lot about both tunes.


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## Dayhoff35 (Sep 7, 2011)

with this small of a turbo i doubt it will hold 22 to redline


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## boats4life (May 28, 2011)

Uggggs said:


> If you compare the dyno charts of Vtuner and the trifecta tune, Vtuner makes more power from 5k on with 4psi less boost. Does anyone who uses the Trifecta tune know whether the boost tails off at the end or does it hold 22psi til the end? Also most engines especially turbo's are most efficient at 5250rpm and the power should peak past that point but the trifecta tune actually is losing power before it. Which makes me think he didnt optimize the top end. Where as Vtuner peaks slightly past, not much more but holds the power longer. This really on matters in a race of course but says a lot about both tunes.


Vermont tuning is also doing more than the tune though- They've ported the intake and stuff, too. Vince's tune runs strictly on 93 octane and the stock engine with no other mods unless you order it for the mods you already have.


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## 70x7 (Apr 24, 2011)

Uggggs said:


> If you compare the dyno charts of Vtuner and the trifecta tune, Vtuner makes more power from 5k on with 4psi less boost. Does anyone who uses the Trifecta tune know whether the boost tails off at the end or does it hold 22psi til the end? Also most engines especially turbo's are most efficient at 5250rpm and the power should peak past that point but the trifecta tune actually is losing power before it. Which makes me think he didnt optimize the top end. Where as Vtuner peaks slightly past, not much more but holds the power longer. This really on matters in a race of course but says a lot about both tunes.


no. 5250 is just the mark where hp and tq intesect by mathematical equation. That rpm has nothing to do with turbo vs power output. 

The power band reflects the output of the turbo. A smaller turbo like one on the Cruze, has a quick spool time which means peak tq comes on sooner rather than at the top of the rpm range. All the graph is showing is that in the high rpms, the turbo is running out of ummph and power is dropping off. That has nothing to do with tuning as that will happen regardless.

As said previously, this turbo will not hold 22 to redline. The graph shows us all that.


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## Uggggs (Sep 19, 2011)

70x7 said:


> no. 5250 is just the mark where hp and tq intesect by mathematical equation. That rpm has nothing to do with turbo vs power output.
> 
> The power band reflects the output of the turbo. A smaller turbo like one on the Cruze, has a quick spool time which means peak tq comes on sooner rather than at the top of the rpm range. All the graph is showing is that in the high rpms, the turbo is running out of ummph and power is dropping off. That has nothing to do with tuning as that will happen regardless.
> 
> As said previously, this turbo will not hold 22 to redline. The graph shows us all that.


What your sayings in that last statement is the turbo dictates the whole graph. So what about the engine? Dont most modern engines peak VE occur past 5k rpm? My DET had peak trq at 3k rpm but it made power til 7.2k, cause thats where the sweet spot of the engine was.

I get the graph is generated to show power based on the fixed point but but peak should occur later as VE reaches its peak. Cause if its not the tune or boost, the cams must suck on this motor and the real restriction.

The first dyno was without the ported intake.


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## Brezerker (Aug 26, 2011)

If your taking about my dyno run let me explain something to you Uggggs...
My cruze is bone stock absolutely nothing done to it but the tune,also I'm guessing you don't pay attention to where i live we are at 7000 feet above sea level this also play a part in why the top end of the dyno start to drop off I'm sure if i was at sea level the dyno graph would look alot diffrent..oh and on a side note my car is running on 88 octane cause wife filled it up 2 days before i tuned it so that also play some of a role in the numbers and performance with the motor.as soon as my tank is empty i plan on filling up with 93 octane and doing a dyno pull to see if there is a difference..

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...dynoresize.jpg


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## Uggggs (Sep 19, 2011)

I payed attention to where you live but I was not talking about your dyno. Your dyno is SAE so it accounts for the higher elevation already. I was refering to Vtuners and Shawns dyno, both are on the east coast and at sea level. Also, both their stock dyno's are nearly identical. 

Anyways, the stock cams probably are a limiting factor since the 1.4t is rated by GM at [email protected] . By the time you shift and around 5k, you have no power since its trailing off so quickly.


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## 70x7 (Apr 24, 2011)

Uggggs said:


> What your sayings in that last statement is the turbo dictates the whole graph. So what about the engine? Dont most modern engines peak VE occur past 5k rpm? My DET had peak trq at 3k rpm but it made power til 7.2k, cause thats where the sweet spot of the engine was.
> 
> I get the graph is generated to show power based on the fixed point but but peak should occur later as VE reaches its peak. Cause if its not the tune or boost, the cams must suck on this motor and the real restriction.
> 
> The first dyno was without the ported intake.


well yes and no. The engine by itself obviously makes some popwer on its own, but it would significantly less than the graph shows because of the turbo so, basically the turbo is generating the power (thats just the function of the power adder). Once the turbo runs out of its efficiency range, the power starts to drop off and thats what we see in the graph.
Now there are things that you can do to help maintain a longer lasting power curve but not a lot you can do to prevent the turbo from running out of "power" as that is limited to the size/capacity of the turbo limitaitons itself. 
Granted though, it is a combination of the engine AND the turbo that creates the power curve, and every application on every vehicle is different.


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## schwindalyn (May 3, 2018)

Question. I am new to performance mods and was thinking about a cold air intake as well as a borla exhaust and a Trinity 2 tune. I was wondering if the tuner will be able to recognize the bolt on mods or if i would have to have it custom tuned? Anyone that has used the Trinity 2 i would love feedback. I've heard good things about trifecta but after reading up on both the Trinity sounds more like me.


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