# Unbelievable Comparison results - Cruze TD vs Jetta TDI



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Here are the cons for the Cruze:


Almost $30k for a Cruze?
Subpar Highway MPG
Loud

First one: is that a joke? Since when was "Cruze" supposed to represent cheap? There is nothing cheap or low quality about the Cruze. That to me was a blatant display of bias. They were LOOKING for things to find wrong with the car. 

Second one, as you noted, is a joke. People have seen 58mpg with this car on the highway. 

Third one is also a joke. There is more sound insulation in that car than in the Buick Verano. The test was rigged from the start. Shame on Autoguide.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Read that awhile ago. I do poke around TDIclub sometimes and some of the rationalization there is frightening. My cruze hasn't proven to be better than a modern TDI yet because it's brand new but it surely hasn't proven to be as prolifically flawed as the modern CR TDI yet...

The funny thing is, just being into the diesel revival in general I tried to join TDIclub figuring the members there would just be into diesel in general and like to hear about my experiences with my cruze....NOPE my membership request was denied. I figure it's because I said my vehicle was a 2014 cruze diesel. What a bunch of idiots. Seriously. 

There are a few members who don't have their heads up their ass and see their cars for what they are but many people are just nuts. 

I don't necessarily think my car is better then a TDI YET, and am willing to let time pass and see. When I purchased it, it had more of what I was looking for then the Jetta TDI that I test drove and also looked at. It just SEEMED to be a more quality product. Time will tell. Too bad TDIclub wasn't interested in hearing any first hand experience.


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## Jorday (Jul 30, 2013)

That's a joke. One of the most ridiculous comparisons between the two cars I've seen. 39 mpg on the highway in the Cruze? Were they driving 80 mph into a 20 mph headwind on the highway the whole time? A buddy of mine has a new jetta TDI, my car beats his with ease in the fuel economy department.


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## sx sonic (Nov 25, 2013)

Seemed like a fair and well ridden article to me.

My English 102 teacher would have given me an A+ for writing that, same for my science teacher since it stayed within the accepted and documented test procedures!

For instance here's a paragraph from that article. 
"The Jetta skips aero tricks and extra safety gear. While blind spot monitoring is nice to have, the Jetta turned out to be the winner here with 47 mpg on the highway compared to 39 in the Cruze."

In all seriousness that paragraph, the one about the Cruze having more power (they never mentioned if it made more power on "overboost" or normal power), and the huge mpg variance (jetta got way better than advertised and Cruze got way under!?) Disqualified that article as being a quality piece.

People on Facebook write more coherent post than that! 

Then there's the obvious, biased flaws. I can see it now, retard testing the Cruze leaves it in M mode and revs the pis$ out of it around town and then does 80 on the interstate in 5th and exclaims "Durr It's noisy and gets bad gas mileage, but are is good aceleratttiion". Meanwhile MR. V-Dub drives sensibly and goes 60 on the interstate, then resets DIC and exclaims (while sipping whine with a pinky up) "My dear good chap, the ride is most quiet and fuel economy is exceptional".


I'll put it this way. Even if I hated the Cruze and GM and loved my Jetta TDI, I would consider that article absolute garbage because, sh!tty writing is sh!tty. And if a professional writer makes garbage like that you can expect the testing to be as flawed.


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## ParisTNDude (Oct 7, 2013)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Here are the cons for the Cruze:
> 
> 
> Almost $30k for a Cruze?
> ...


It's frustrating to read an article comparing vehicles and they never say: "yes, the TDI base price is less than the Cruze TD, but it doesn't include, 4 wheel disks, back up camera, and an automatic transmission...when you add these accessories to the TDI, it's clearly more expensive". Also, the blind spot monitor and other safety options were the most expensive options you can get on the Cruze...so they say, "the Cruze is expensive". 

Their mpg calculations were horrible, compared to real "real world" performance. Just wish the articles would give our Cruze a fair shake! Give us a break and compare apples to apples!


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

I am sorry but the cruze TDI has a good motor,injection system and transmission ..The rest is ok ..nothing to write home about.


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## [email protected] (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm really impressed with the HORRID fuel economy results. I don't think the reviewers really understood how to fill these cars, and if they were using the in-dash display...well, no "reporting" should ever be done on the a basis of the in-dash displays.


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## Camcruse (Oct 4, 2011)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Read that awhile ago. I do poke around TDIclub sometimes and some of the rationalization there is frightening. My cruze hasn't proven to be better than a modern TDI yet because it's brand new but it surely hasn't proven to be as prolifically flawed as the modern CR TDI yet...
> 
> The funny thing is, just being into the diesel revival in general I tried to join TDIclub figuring the members there would just be into diesel in general and like to hear about my experiences with my cruze....NOPE my membership request was denied. I figure it's because I said my vehicle was a 2014 cruze diesel. What a bunch of idiots. Seriously.
> 
> ...


I'm still a member over there (previous 2009 TDI) and traded it in due to the hpfp implosions. My TDI was a great car, but after having it for 2.5 years I decided sleep was better than staying up at night worrying about it. 

When I left I did a comparsion between my 2009 TDI and my new 2012 Cruze and was pretty unbiased, but of course they didn't want to hear it. There are members at TDIClub who've had 2 hpfp's implode at a cost of $8000 each. Right now VW has been covering the repair even after the warranty is over. But it's only a matter of time before they say that you're SOL.


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## DieselMan33 (Oct 13, 2013)

GotDiesel? said:


> I am sorry but the cruze TDU has a good motor,injection system and transmission ..The rest is ok ..nothing to write home about ..If you want a real diesel that's above the rest ,go try a BMW 335D.I can say both VW and GM dealers and I feel the GM are worse from what I have seen so far . Not to sound like a negative Nelly but I am VERY disappointed with both the cruze TDI and GM support. This will be my last GM Product .Lets see 30 for a new Cruze TDI 34 k for a used low mileage Certified BWM 335D... My bmw has given me ZERO problems and has a VERY Aggressive tune on it ..The cruze TD been a total nightmare on a brand new car ! never again GM .


First and foremost, comparing a Cruze to a BMW 3 series is not even logical. Second, 30K for a Cruze Diesel? Where are you getting your prices? Full MSRP with every single option might be close to 30K but who pays that? Go full MSRP on a 335D and see where you are at, I am betting north of 40k. There are always going to be cars that have issues, search around I am sure there are people who hate their 335D.


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

GotDiesel? said:


> I am sorry but the cruze TDU has a good motor, injection system and transmission. The rest is ok. Nothing to write home about. If you want a real diesel that's above the rest, go try a BMW 335D. I can say both VW and GM dealers and I feel the GM are worse from what I have seen so far. Not to sound like a negative Nelly but I am VERY disappointed with both the cruze TDI and GM support. This will be my last GM Product. Lets see 30 for a new Cruze TDI 34 k for a used low mileage Certified BWM 335D. My BMW has given me ZERO problems and has a VERY Aggressive tune on it. The cruze TD been a total nightmare on a brand new car! Never again GM.


Sounds (to me) like GM really, really, really, needs to TRAIN their Mr/Ms GOODWRENCHS about their products BEFORE they (GM) even THINK about selling them.

GM makes mistakes, but it's the GOOD (or BAD) WRENCHS that customers have to interface with over problems -- Detroit is just a city somewhere up north in a state called Michigan -- so, it is the local yocal's who MAKE or BREAK customer faith in products and brands. Of course, if GM made perfect cars, they wouldn't NEED dealers with service departments!


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## GotDiesel? (Sep 9, 2013)

Dieselman33, I agree and yes might be a few people that dislike the BMW 335D . I went to BMW welt Munich to collect my car . It was the best read trip I did and perhaps one of the reasons I am Biased on this car , Yes even used they range 32 to 40 k used. I am really going to give the cruze a fair chance before I get rid of the car and wash my hands off it for good. I have taken a few road trips and its great on long trips and will get stellar MPG if kept @ 60-65 MPH. 65 MPG seems to be the sweet spot for this car for over the top MPG.


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## titanman2789 (Oct 27, 2013)

Jorday said:


> That's a joke. One of the most ridiculous comparisons between the two cars I've seen. 39 mpg on the highway in the Cruze? Were they driving 80 mph into a 20 mph headwind on the highway the whole time? A buddy of mine has a new jetta TDI, my car beats his with ease in the fuel economy department.


I agree the comparison was a joke. 39 mpg was what I got doing 80 mph into a headwind through Nebraska last weekend. 



GotDiesel? said:


> Dieselman33, I agree and yes might be a few people that dislike the BMW 335D . I went to BMW welt Munich to collect my car . It was the best read trip I did and perhaps one of the reasons I am Biased on this car , Yes even used they range 32 to 40 k used. I am really going to give the cruze a fair chance before I get rid of the car and wash my hands off it for good. I have taken a few road trips and its great on long trips and will get stellar MPG if kept @ 60-65 MPH. 65 MPG seems to be the sweet spot for this car for over the top MPG.


For better than estimated you are correct. But that's normal for almost any car. I just wish that the transmission was an 8 speed so that I could run below 2k rpm at 80mph. 



Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

I have never been able to get 39MPG at 64.4 MPH on the highway - At that speed, even in winter with snow tires and a headwind, worst case I am getting 45. In warm weather with normal tires, at that speed I am well into the 50s. 

I will say this - that's the first review I have ever seen of the Cruze that said the rear seat was roomy lol


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

I really like that GM basically used much of what they learned from the very successful Duramax and applied the same principles to this car. It even uses the same reliable high pressure fuel pump that's not grenading engines like the one that VW keeps using. 

It's early obviously but it seems like SO far the quirks discovered on the diesel cruze match certain ones in the gasser cruze. Such as the steering issue. If that's the biggest thing I have to worry about....WINNING. 

I'm reading stories of plenty of 2012 and 2013 TDI's with many big problems luckily covered under warranty but would be enough to scare me away from keeping the car outside of the warranty. I wonder if the cruze with have any problems with frozen intercoolers or intercoolers filling up with enough water that when the user continually cranks their engine and it eventually starts it gets hydrolocked bending a rod. Yes this has happened on Jetta and Golf TDI's. It's not an issue on the newest passat TDI. 

Our forum member "Diesel" is the proverbial Guinea Pig is any high mileage problems we may be facing down the line!  I do quite a bit of around town driving as you can see by my fuelly signature so I'm more of a test case for problems developed from short trips/dpf life/etc.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

You know, I wonder if they just got their hands on the Cruze Diesel and did this test in very, very cold temps (and maybe the VW does better on highway fuel economy in cold temps). Lots here have said they notice their MPG fall off in cold temps.

Nonetheless, this would be the first comparison test I've seen where the VW beat the Cruze on highway fuel economy. I've read so many others where it was the other way around, though the VW would do better in city fuel economy.


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## iKermit (Dec 13, 2010)

1 bad biased review:10000 good reviews.

We have a good ratio going on


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

A while back I bought a used 2007 Mercedes diesel ML320 SUV. When it wasn't broke it was a great vehicle. However it had some problems and I took it to the dealer and expected world class service. The service was worse than GM. They acted like it was a privilege to spend boatloads of money to not have my car fixed. When I complained about it on the Mercedes forum I was rebuffed by Mercedes apologists. Some people are just drinking the car maker kool aid. They will never concede a defect. I replaced the vehicle with a new Silverado for the same price. I will buy a new GM over a used German car. Both break. Both have horrible service. From what I hear VW people have a lot in common with Mercedes people.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

iKermit said:


> 1 bad biased review:10000 good reviews.
> 
> We have a good ratio going on


Unfortunately it will take another 10,000 good reviews to make this one bad review "disappear". And the VW apologists will keep this review alive as long as they possibly can.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Our forum member "Diesel" is the proverbial Guinea Pig is any high mileage problems we may be facing down the line!  I do quite a bit of around town driving as you can see by my fuelly signature so I'm more of a test case for problems developed from short trips/dpf life/etc.


Haha yeah. So far after just under 36K miles there have been no issues. I am eager to see how this car ages.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

titanman2789 said:


> For better than estimated you are correct. But that's normal for almost any car. I just wish that the transmission was an 8 speed so that I could run below 2k rpm at 80mph.


I'm just happy mine runs below 2k at 60 mph. When I bought my first Cruze (2011 2LT), I downgraded from an '04 Impala with a 3.8L V6. I don't know that I ever really got used to the nearly 3k rpm at 70-75 mph with my first Cruze, as good of a car as it was. The 2011 non-Eco models were the worst. They had a higher final drive ratio which was changed after 2011 for better efficiency.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

PanJet said:


> I'm just happy mine runs below 2k at 60 mph. When I bought my first Cruze (2011 2LT), I downgraded from an '04 Impala with a 3.8L V6. I don't know that I ever really got used to the nearly 3k rpm at 70-75 mph with my first Cruze, as good of a car as it was. The 2011 non-Eco models were the worst. They had a higher final drive ratio which was changed after 2011 for better efficiency.


Civic 5-speeds used to run darn near 3500-4000 RPM at 80. Quite buzzy (but still excellent fuel economy for the time).


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

lower RPM's don't necessarily correlate to fuel economy as other posters have indicted.


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## Scott M. (Apr 23, 2013)

You don't let any grass grow under that car.


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## PanJet (Jun 18, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> lower RPM's don't necessarily correlate to fuel economy as other posters have indicted.


Very true, but I still appreciate lower RPMs for some reason. I grew up around engines, lots of them, on a farm where our diesel engine to gas engine ratio was probably 3:1 (if you don't count little stuff like chain saws). That I know of, my '11 Cruze was the first highway vehicle anyone in my direct lineage had ever owned with fewer than six cylinders, so I was very used to large, torquey engines which chug along nicely my whole life.

I still can't get over driving my dad's '08 Dmax with a 15,000 lb. loaded trailer on the back chugging down the highway at 1,600 rpm at 65 mph.


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## tomo366 (Jun 11, 2013)

KpaxFAQ said:


> Read that awhile ago. I do poke around TDIclub sometimes and some of the rationalization there is frightening. My cruze hasn't proven to be better than a modern TDI yet because it's brand new but it surely hasn't proven to be as prolifically flawed as the modern CR TDI yet...
> 
> The funny thing is, just being into the diesel revival in general I tried to join TDIclub figuring the members there would just be into diesel in general and like to hear about my experiences with my cruze....NOPE my membership request was denied. I figure it's because I said my vehicle was a 2014 cruze diesel. What a bunch of idiots. Seriously.
> 
> ...


Sorry guy but you are WRONG!! they are not going to turn down your membership simply because you didn't buy a TDI! The must be another reason......If you seriously want to be a member on the TDICLUB you should contact an Admin and they will solve the problem.....I find this post to be pretty silly actually......I have owned a GM Diesel....I have owned 10 VW Diesels to include 8 TDI's loved everyone of them! Presently still a 96 Passat TDI and a 84Mercedes 300 D and now 2013 Jetta Hybrid, TDI loved to rib me about that!! I roe a Cruz Diesel when it 1st came out I like it!! But I need a Wagen The TDI's Guys for the most Have an open mind and there is a Cruze Jetta Thread going


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

tomo366 said:


> Sorry guy but you are WRONG!! they are not going to turn down your membership simply because you didn't buy a TDI! The must be another reason......If you seriously want to be a member on the TDICLUB you should contact an Admin and they will solve the problem.....I find this post to be pretty silly actually......I have owned a GM Diesel....I have owned 10 VW Diesels to include 8 TDI's loved everyone of them! Presently still a 96 Passat TDI and a 84Mercedes 300 D and now 2013 Jetta Hybrid, TDI loved to rib me about that!! I roe a Cruz Diesel when it 1st came out I like it!! But I need a Wagen The TDI's Guys for the most Have an open mind and there is a Cruze Jetta Thread going


That doesn't explain why his membership was denied in the first place.


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## tomo366 (Jun 11, 2013)

I am not an Administrator. I couldn't provide the answer as to why his membership was denied.....And that is why I suggested he contact an Adminstrator! They do not deny membership on the basis of non TDI ownership......So there must be something wrong! Don't just trash the TDI Club Folks because he got Denied....That is something Prius folks like to do.....


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

I signed up on TDIClub.com. Perfectly normal member with a unique username and a valid e-mail address. Account was denied soon after registration. Their registration process is beyond broken. I ended up contacting an administrator to have my account unlocked for use. Kind of annoying that I had to go through so much trouble. 

Sent from mobile.


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## KpaxFAQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Update:

I went to attempt to re-register. It wouldn't let me use this same name again. I figured it's blocked or something from the original denial, so I come up with another unique name. It won't let me register because my email is use. 

So, I said what the **** I'll try to log in and see what it says and my account works. So, someone went back and approved it apparantly but I never received an email of any kind, just an original denial as the administrator of this forum did as well. 

So Tomo366 props for them fixing it even though I had no idea it was done. 

Merry Christmas


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## 70AARCUDA (Nov 14, 2010)

Sounds like maybe the TDI Admins were hired/rejects from the ACA "Website" development team (wink,wink)?


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## papajoe (Jan 3, 2014)

I drove my first cruse diesel yesterday. the dealer i use let me test drive on the interstate, and in the city(200miles). 3 people, no cargo. temp, 5f degrees, 10-15 cross wind. i set the fuel/trip meter; the trip average speed was 44mph, avg fuel 55.4mpg. on the hwy only speed set at 56mph, cruise control for 38 miles, mph read over 60mpg(non-flat) roads. i found the front seats to be comfortable, rear seats too small by 4 inch leg room, 3 inch headroom. ride was very good, quieter than expected. its been years since i owned a diesel vw rabbit, but thought it was good for what it was. since then I have only owned duramax diesels (9 trucks). love the power and torque, and towing capacity. but! running to the store for a gallon of milk uses over a gallon ($3.94) of fuel. i estimate, based on for prolonged test drive, to use less than $1.00 of fuel in the cruse. when i evaluate the driving we do, over 70% is "cruse" driving, and 30% truck. i ordered a new cruse diesel, and a new duramax dually, 2 extremes but both have applications at my house.


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## ParisTNDude (Oct 7, 2013)

GotDiesel? said:


> I am sorry but the cruze TDI has a good motor,injection system and transmission ..The rest is ok ..nothing to write home about.


I've had 5 BMWs, 3 European models and 2 new US spec cars. The 2003 had two dash panels replaced (kept burning them up), new fuel sender units replaced and the passenger side door would not latch while we were on vacation (had to tie it closed with the seat belt to get it to a dealership). They gave me a Suzuki loaner in place of my $38k BMW. Oh, and you have to wait weeks for the parts to arrive. 

All 5 of the beamers were filled with problems that were all expensive to repair. Dealer services were all over $300. No such problems with my 30 or more GM vehicles. I've had my last BMW for certain. To each their own.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

KpaxFAQ said:


> lower RPM's don't necessarily correlate to fuel economy as other posters have indicted.


Generally speaking, lower RPMs do mean better economy for several reasons. This is the whole idea behind the push for wider gear ratio splits in modern transmissions, and more gears.

For any engine at any specific crank speed (RPM) you can plot an efficiency vs. load graph, or Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) curve. An engine under zero load at a particular RPM is getting 0% efficiency since it's not doing any work. Start applying a load to the engine while maintaining a constant RPM and you will see the work the engine is capable of vs. how much fuel it consumes.

At a given RPM an engine gets more and more efficient as the load increases. This trend continues until somewhere between roughly 50-85% load (varies depending on engine design), at which point efficiency starts to drop off approaching 100% load.

Taller gearing allows an engine to operate at a lower RPM and higher load for a given road speed, allowing it to operate closer to the % load where it is getting peak efficiency. To see this in action, simply take a highway cruise in 5th gear, record your fuel economy, and then repeat the route in 6th gear at the same speed (use cruise control). The increasing economy trend would continue if the car had a 7th gear. Eventually you'd get to the point where the engine was not capable of making enough power to maintain road speed, which is the limitation of the tall gear ratio approach.

Most cars have significant headroom in this area, the Cruze LT vs. Eco is a good example. The LT manual has a 6th gear ratio equal to the Eco's 5th gear ratio. Most of the increased highway economy the Eco sees over the LT is based on its taller 6th gear ratio. The Eco, however, is pushing the limits of the gear ratio approach as its gearing is so tall that there's not a lot of reserve power left for accelerating or hill climbing. If even taller gearing was fitted to the Eco it would require constant downshifting to drive on anything but flat roads at highway speeds.

Some light reading on BSFC:

Brake specific fuel consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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