# 2012 2LT Brake Project Today, Pedal Goes Half Way Down.



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Don't recall getting plastered yesterday, just drove my Cruze, getting a full brake pedal again. Know with all the stress and strain, was going to crack up one of these days. Maybe I did.


----------



## stamas (Mar 7, 2014)

When you say half pedal do you mean all of the time or just for the first time you press ? Mine is a half pedal the first time I press it but it goes away after that , 

by by the sound of it the brakes either need to be bleed, or put do a fluid flush and change 

have ve you tried adjusting the rear shoes . Your hand brake should have 5-6 clicks 

Let us know how you get on


----------



## stamas (Mar 7, 2014)

Just read and you have rear discs so you can't adjust rear brakes 

I'm swinging towards a fluid flush but it's hard to know from what you said


----------



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

I have rear drums on my 1LT, I'm used to a spongy pedal that doesn't do much until pressed past half way. Got to test that 60-0mph braking when deer jumped in front of me a few days back, very impressed with the stopping distance. Read online 122ft from 60mph, though I'm not sure what model that is. 

Jammed on brakes for 2 seconds & dropped to 20-25mph, enough slow down to avoid the deer.


----------



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Another +1 for a fluid flush.

I'll be doing mine in 2 weeks along with front rotors/pads (needed anyway - nothing to do with pedal feel) in hopes that it will take some of the sponginess out of the pedal - plus, coming up on 3 years since the car was made, it's due for new fluid anyways. 

Several here have said that a fluid change has done wonders for their pedal feel - it wouldn't surprise me if they were improperly bled from the factory (had another car that came the same way!)


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Total pedal travel is about 3.5 inches, normally engage fully with about 0.5 to 0.75 inches. Yesterday was taking more like 1.5 inches before braking occurred to a stiff pedal. Just checked it again, still back to this 0.5-0.75 inch range.

With four wheel disk brakes, adjustment is done with the parking brake lever, when the pedal starts feeling low, I hold the button in and work the lever up a couple of times and can hear a click from the rear each time, do this until I no longer hear clicks, and the brake pedal is right back up again.

With a low pedal yesterday, was not hearing any of these clicks. Brake fluid it right up to the top and perfectly clear, besides this, the clutch wouldn't work, that works just fine.

Made the comment to my wife this morning, would be checking the brakes today, we took a 100 mile trip yesterday when all this started. Just remembered, she got a call last night for an emergency at the hospital so was the last person to drive the Cruze. Maybe she fixed it without telling me, or maybe the Cruze just wanted a women's touch. A mystery.


----------



## Trinkah (May 3, 2014)

It would be my understanding that the brake wear and tear wouldn't be covered under warranty. You shouldn't have that much travel on a 4 disc system, with worn pads or not. Any adjustments should be covered under warranty.


----------



## Jim Frye (Mar 16, 2011)

stamas said:


> Just read and you have rear discs so you can't adjust rear brakes


That's odd. The rear disks are adjustable on both of my cars, but it's for the parking brake.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

While on the factory tour in Lordstown I asked specifically about brake bleeding on the assembly line. Answer: they don't.

What they do is attach a special piece of equipment to the master cylinder reservoir that pulls a vacuum in the system, releases a specific volume of brake fluid into the reservoir, then releases the vacuum. The brake fluid is pulled through the lines and into the calipers and wheel cylinders (and clutch master/slave on manual cars).

This, in theory, will work well and greatly simplifies the process for mass assembly. It will also leave a tiny amount of air in the extremities of the braking system since they cannot pull a perfect vacuum.

Those who changed their brake fluid and noticed increased pedal stiffness likely got rid of that last tiny amount of air in the system, increasing the rigidity of the fluid volume.

I tried gravity bleeding my brakes last week. Though I did get some small air bubbles out, my brake feel didn't really improve. I have a feeling towards the end of the process I let some air back in as I let the bleeder line droop. I'm going to try again applying some pressure to the reservoir and keeping the bleeder line elevated.

FWIW, my brake fluid is clear and clean looking after two years, but most believe it should be flushed every 2-3 years due to moisture absorption lowering the boiling point of the fluid.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Have to run the ABS pump motor to properly bleed the brakes. This could be done automatically with a GMTech II scanner with an ABS module. Having other means to blow $5,600.00, I just hot wire the ABS pump motor. Use a power supply and only switch it on for each individual wheel, those bubbles fly out and in seconds get clear fluid.

Drove the Cruze again tonight, brakes were perfect, was just yesterday. Recalled it was Memorial Day, and maybe my brake pedal decided to go half mast in respect for those that died for this country. Could be, but searching for another explanation as well.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Nick, have you done this with the Cruze yet? A DIY would be nice to see!


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Blue Angel said:


> Nick, have you done this with the Cruze yet? A DIY would be nice to see!


Just far enough to identify the ABS pump motor buried under the coolant reservoir. But not far enough to locate the connector nor the pinouts.

Until the end of this year, still Chevy's car yet. I did look in the back of my owners manual, no longer giving that four buck coupon to order a shop manual, including postage. 

Did the same for my 04 Cavalier when Helms wanted 200 bucks for a shop manual, but after the warranty period, dropped to 140 bucks. Make that decision as to whether I want to keep the car or not. But I see the Cruze manual still is:


[FONT=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica,sans-serif] 2012 Chevy Cruze Service Manual Set[/FONT]  [FONT=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica,sans-serif]Price: $200.00 *In Stock*[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica,sans-serif]Pkg Qty: 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica,sans-serif] For years, never needed a shop manual, all self explanatory, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial, Helvetica,sans-serif](English, Paper, GMP12P)

but this is history now. 
[/FONT]


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Here is the ABS valve unit:










Sure looks like the pump motor on top and should have four solenoid valves in it. Now to find the pinouts.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

On the Corvette they refer to this part as the EBCM, or Electronic Brake Control Module. There are some common failures with it, and I suffered one of them... cracked solder joints that would cause intermittent error codes that increased in frequency over time. Thankfully the fix was simple (for a DIYer anyway), just pull the unit apart and touch up the high current solder joints.

IIRC, the pump motor leads in the wire harness were the heavier gauge wires, but I'd definitely want to see a schematic before applying a load.


----------



## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Blue Angel said:


> On the Corvette they refer to this part as the EBCM, or Electronic Brake Control Module. There are some common failures with it, and I suffered one of them... cracked solder joints that would cause intermittent error codes that increased in frequency over time. Thankfully the fix was simple (for a DIYer anyway), just pull the unit apart and touch up the high current solder joints.
> 
> IIRC, the pump motor leads in the wire harness were the heavier gauge wires, but I'd definitely want to see a schematic before applying a load.


The ABS control module is a guaranteed 100% failure rate item on Volvos for exactly the same reason - they cheaped out on the solder joints.


----------



## cruze2011white (Feb 2, 2011)

BMW's have the same problem also. Helped a friend fix his. So it looks like a lot of car manufactures are using the same supplier.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Doing much better job in sealing this hygroscopic DOT 3 brake fluid to keep out the moisture. So not really concerned as much as in years past. BMW for a time was highly recommending the brake fluid should be changed at least once per year.

And of course, this problem has been greatly augmented with the introduction of ABS, but wouldn't be near the problem if they used better materials in these things like corrosion proof stainless steel. And yes, a frozen closed valve can keep that corresponding wheel, brake free.

Really try to minimize the use of ABS on my Cruze, worse case is a clear left track and an ice spotty right track. Confuses the ABS and sound like the front end of the car is falling apart.

Brakes in my Cruze were fine again today, would feel like an idiot to explain Memorial Day if I cannot verify whatever problem I was having attempting to explain this to my dealer.

Strong debate going on if DOT 5 is compatible with DOT 3, certainly less hygroscopic, so will stick with DOT 3 until Chevy says different. Always a liability issue.


----------



## stamas (Mar 7, 2014)

I thought dot 3 was stopped and dot 4 was introduced . Why would you go for dot 3


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

stamas said:


> I thought dot 3 was stopped and dot 4 was introduced . Why would you go for dot 3



From the Cruze Owners Manual

"Hydraulic Brake/Clutch System  DOT 3 Hydraulic Brake Fluid (GM Part No. 88863461, in Canada 88863462)"


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

stamas said:


> I thought dot 3 was stopped and dot 4 was introduced . Why would you go for dot 3


Cost. DOT3 is quite a bit cheaper and more readily available here.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

This appears to be a good article on brake fluids.

"(This article was obtained from the Honda Performance List)  By Steve Wall
As a former materials engineering supervisor at a major automotive brake system supplier, I feel both qualified and obligated to inject some material science facts into the murky debate about DOT 5 verses DOT 3-4 brake fluids. The important technical issues governing the use of a particular specification brake fluid are as follows:

 

Fluid compatibility with the brake system rubber, plastic and metal components. Water absorption and corrosion. Fluid boiling point and other physical characteristics. Brake system contamination and sludging. Additionally, some technical comments will be made about the new brake fluid formulations appearing on the scene.

 

First of all, it's important to understand the chemical nature of brake fluid. DOT 3 brake fluids are mixtures of glycols and glycol ethers. DOT 4 contains borate esters in addition to what is contained in DOT 3. These brake fluids are somewhat similar to automotive anti-freeze (ethylene glycol) and are not, as Dr. Curve implies, a petroleum fluid. DOT 5 is silicone chemistry.  
[h=4]Fluid Compatibility[/h] Brake system materials must be compatible with the system fluid. Compatibility is determined by chemistry, and no amount of advertising, wishful thinking or rationalizing can change the science of chemical compatibility. Both DOT 3-4 and DOT 5 fluids are compatible with most brake system materials except in the case some silicone rubber external components such as caliper piston boots, which are attacked by silicon fluids and greases.  
[h=4]Water absorption and corrosion[/h] The big bugaboo with DOT 3-4 fluids always cited by silicone fluid advocates is water absorption. DOT 3-4 glycol based fluids, just like ethylene glycol antifreezes, are readily miscible with water. Long term brake system water content tends to reach a maximum of about 3%, which is readily handled by the corrosion inhibitors in the brake fluid formulation. Since the inhibitors are gradually depleted as they do their job, glycol brake fluid, just like anti-freeze, needs to be changed periodically. Follow BMW's recommendations. DOT 5 fluids, not being water miscible, must rely on the silicone (with some corrosion inhibitors) as a barrier film to control corrosion. Water is not absorbed by silicone as in the case of DOT 3-4 fluids, and will remain as a separate globule sinking to the lowest point in the brake system, since it is more dense.  
Fluid boiling point DOT 4 glycol based fluid has a higher boiling point (446F) than DOT 3 (401F), and both fluids will exhibit a reduced boiling point as water content increases. DOT 5 in its pure state offers a higher boiling point (500F) however if water got into the system, and a big globule found its way into a caliper, the water would start to boil at 212F causing a vapor lock condition [possible brake failure -ed.]. By contrast, DOT 3 fluid with 3% water content would still exhibit a boiling point of 300F. Silicone fluids also exhibit a 3 times greater propensity to dissolve air and other gasses which can lead to a "spongy pedal" and reduced braking at high altitudes.  


DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids are mutually compatible, the major disadvantage of such a mix being a lowered boiling point. In an emergency, it'll do. Silicone fluid will not mix, but will float on top. From a lubricity standpoint, neither fluids are outstanding, though silicones will exhibit a more stable viscosity index in extreme temperatures, which is why the US Army likes silicone fluids. Since few of us ride at temperatures very much below freezing, let alone at 40 below zero, silicone's low temperature advantage won't be apparent. Neither fluids will reduce stopping distances.  
With the advent of ABS systems, the limitations of existing brake fluids have been recognized and the brake fluid manufacturers have been working on formulations with enhanced properties. However, the chosen direction has not been silicone. The only major user of silicone is the US Army. It has recently asked the SAE about a procedure for converting from silicon back to DOT 3-4. If they ever decide to switch, silicone brake fluid will go the way of leaded gas.  
[h=4]Brake system contamination[/h] The single most common brake system failure caused by a contaminant is swelling of the rubber components (piston seals etc.) due to the introduction of petroleum based products (motor oil, power steering fluid, mineral oil etc.) A small amount is enough to do major damage. Flushing with mineral spirits is enough to cause a complete system failure in a short time. I suspect this is what has happened when some BMW owners changed to DOT 5 (and then assumed that silicone caused the problem). Flushing with alcohol also causes problems. BMW brake systems should be flushed only with DOT 3 or 4.

 

If silicone is introduced into an older brake system, the silicone will latch unto the sludge generated by gradual component deterioration and create a gelatin like goop which will attract more crud and eventually plug up metering orifices or cause pistons to stick. If you have already changed to DOT 5, don't compound your initial mistake and change back. Silicone is very tenacious stuff and you will never get it all out of your system. Just change the fluid regularly. For those who race using silicone fluid, I recommend that you crack the bleed screws before each racing session to insure that there is no water in the calipers.  
[h=4]New developments[/h] Since DOT 4 fluids were developed, it was recognized that borate ester based fluids offered the potential for boiling points beyond the 446F requirement, thus came the Super DOT 4 fluids - some covered by the DOT 5.1 designation - which exhibit a minimum dry boiling point of 500F (same as silicone, but different chemistry).

 

Additionally, a new fluid type based on silicon ester chemistry (not the same as silicon) has been developed that exhibits a minimum dry boiling point of 590F. It is miscible with DOT 3-4 fluids but has yet to see commercial usage."


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

The mileage report in my sig guarantees I'll never be in a position where I'm boiling my brake fluid... doing so would take to much gas! I could probably get by with water instead of fancy fluids. 

Nice read, thanks for the article Nick.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Half pedal problem is still there with a 430 mile trip last night. Okay around town, but for driving any given distance on the interstate, first push on the brake pedal is half way down. Same characteristic on Memorial Day.

But after this first push, releasing the brake pedal and hitting it again, getting a full pedal like it should be. Its not like I started driving yesterday, never experienced anything like this before. Can't be brake adjusting issues or even a minor leak, pedal keeps on going down until you have no brakes, period!

This thing is recovering with one push of the brake pedal with concerns, will this get worse with no brakes, period?

Wonder if this has anything to do with that vacuum operated brake switch, but now just guessing. Another question, am I the only one? 27K miles on the Cruze now, never has been a problem like this before.


----------



## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

NickD said:


> Wonder if this has anything to do with that vacuum operated brake switch, but now just guessing. Another question, am I the only one? 27K miles on the Cruze now, never has been a problem like this before.


Time for a trip to the dealer, I have not seen anyone on here with the issue you describe. Only similar complaints were complete failures of the brake vacuum booster which was only effecting the automatic cars, that doesn't mean yours couldn't also become similarly defective.


----------



## grs1961 (Oct 23, 2012)

I had a similar problem with my Skyline twenty-odd years ago - just before the brake booster failed completely.

Take it in, take it in.


----------



## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

NickD said:


> Half pedal problem is still there with a 430 mile trip last night. Okay around town, but for driving any given distance on the interstate, first push on the brake pedal is half way down. Same characteristic on Memorial Day.
> 
> But after this first push, releasing the brake pedal and hitting it again, getting a full pedal like it should be. Its not like I started driving yesterday, never experienced anything like this before. Can't be brake adjusting issues or even a minor leak, pedal keeps on going down until you have no brakes, period!
> 
> ...


Hey NickD,

I apologize for this, but I agree with the others, and taking it into the dealership would be the best option. I can definitely assist you with this . Please send me a PM with your VIN, current mileage, contact info and a preferred dealership, I would be happy to look into this. Thanks!

Patsy G
Chevrolet Customer Care


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

My vacuum assist switch is messing up on my Eco. The symptom is, without the engine running and with the key in there's no vacuum assist. Pedal is high and rock solid, very hard to push, not soft at all and no extra travel.

Agree with the others, take it in. It sounds like a master cylinder issue to me. I'm not sure how the guts of the EBCM work, it could be something in there too. Git'r fixed and let us know what it was!


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Did get the shop manual in yesterday, read the entire section and troubleshooting on the brakes. Any booster problem deals with a stiff pedal or vacuum leaks.

Pulling the car into the garage and letting it sit for several hours, do have power assist, but the brake pedal goes clear to the floor the first time I hit it. After I hit it about three times, no more power assist, but get a full pedal again. If I start the engine to back up down my sloped driveway, still have brakes, but with the pedal down to the floor the first time. But after this, then its okay again.

Also okay with frequent stops, but going a good distance on the interstate and hitting the brake pedal when you have to, all the way down to the floor again. But still have brakes, release the pedal and hit it again, back to normal again. Never ever ran into anything like this before.

Can see removing the power brake booster is a PITA, the six fittings on the ABS, connector all have to be removed first, meaning the brakes have to be bled. On other vehicles, could just move the master cylinder forward a bit to remove the booster, never had to remove all these lines. Recommended bleeding is the old fashion assistant method pumping the brake pedal. This never was a good method with a master cylinder that has been around the block a few times. Those cups go into an area they never been in before causing leaks, have to replace the master cylinder first.


Also look over the circuit diagrams, manual stack is 6" high with tiny circuits scattered all over the place, think that would drive me nuts tracing down an electrical problem.

With this problem, will take Patsy's offer for assistance, not even sure I can explain this brake problem to my dealer. Normally like to find the source of the problem, no leaks, vacuum is good, just this mysterious low pedal. And suspect the way it is, if the brakes pads are slightly loose, would go clear to the floor with no brakes at all. Just started about a week ago.

Speaking about DOT 3 or 5, don't mix these according to the manual, if you do, cure is to flush the entire system out with denatured alcohol and just stick with DOT 3. If you pour in motor oil or AT fluid, expect to replace everything.

One reason why I hate selling a used car, people come in begging me to sell it for ten bucks a month and crying. Accidentally poured in coolant into their engine or whatever.


----------



## David1 (Sep 16, 2011)

Bad master cylinder.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

If I block off the vacuum to the booster with a piece of tape, full pedal, hardly 3/8" of an inch to get a really hard brake pedal. So really doubt if its the master cylinder. Will leave this one to the brains at GM.

Also see if I intend to play with this booster after warranty, better get some spare clips where the only way to remove some stuff is to break them off.

Fast action, got a call from my Chevy dealer and set up an appointment. Explained the symptoms, is a mystery to them as well, but will look at it.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

After an 80 mile drive today, first application of the brake was to the floor, after that, it was perfect. Wondering if my vacuum brake booster is on steroids.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Chevy suspects the master cylinder, did verify the problem. Seems logical, but just never ever have experienced an erratic master cylinder before.

Have to think about this, brake fluid could be leaking back from the forward seal, but not the rear one as no external leaks. Yeah, this would cause this symptom. With a double cylinder master cylinder for diagonal wheels, if you get a bad leak in one diagonal, pedal will go to the floor. But always to the floor and fluid is lost. In this case, fluid is not lost, so could pump up again until it leaks out. Have to think outside of the box.

Ordered a new master cylinder, see what happens.

Oh, is covered under warranty.


----------



## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

The only time I have experienced anything remotely like this is in an all drum braked car that was way out of adjustment and no dual master cylinder. Last car was all disc and at 13 years old still had original everything except fluid and pads. And I did put on grooved front rotors at around 200,000km to stop brake shimmy.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Two Delco master cylinders listed for the Cruze.

This is the cheap one:










75 bucks, and this is the good one:










For 101 bucks. More than likely will get the cheap one, then the good one after warranty.


----------



## dsmskyline (Mar 21, 2014)

There are usually residual pressure valves built into the master cylinder. Their purpose is to keep a small constant pressure in the lines to keep the pads "near" the rotors so you dont have to "pump" the brakes as you are having to do. Wonder if they are going bad and that is what has caused your issue.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

What's the difference between the two cylinders other than price? One looks like aluminum and the other iron of some sort. Which one is on the car already?


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Finally getting my new master cylinder installed this morning, ha rather do it myself than wait around. And I know I won't make a mess. Told the service manager, when I get into the car, hit the brake pedal first and goes to the floor. Ask me why I do this, said I have been doing this for 60 years now. Suppose to have your foot on the brake pedal when starting an engine.

But all this last week, pump the pedal 3-4 times with the engine off, and pumps up to a full pedal, then the brakes are okay. If I don't, will have a low brake pedal. Weirdest symptom I have ever encountered. So lets see if a new master cylinder cures this.

Been putting up with this for 23 days now, been driving extra cautious. Today will tell the story.


----------



## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

The description is that of one of the two apply piston cups within the master is bypassing rather than pressurizing the fluid.

Having been in the biz over 50 years now....I've seen this many times.
Usually reserved for older stuff with old contaminated fluid but being mechanical......things happen.

Rob


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Guess they didn't want me hanging around to pester them. Drove me home in a new Volt, hey, really like this car. Super quiet, will pick me up when done. Ha, told them not to spill any brake fluid on my nice clean engine, and will be death to them if they touch my shield. Promised they wouldn't touch that.

On three previous warranty repairs, gave me an old Chevy for a loaner, must have sold or junked all of those. Guess they wouldn't trust me with a brand new Volt. This time I remembered to take my house key off my remote.


----------



## g8stombaugh (Jun 16, 2014)

Interested to hear about this, I noticed my pedal goes down half way before any brakes engage and it felt very odd. The salesman told me it was normal with the cruzes... I'm always used to very stiff brakes. Haven't tried to pump them before I start yet though. Interested to see what happends NickD.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

g8stombaugh said:


> Interested to hear about this, I noticed my pedal goes down half way before any brakes engage and it felt very odd. The salesman told me it was normal with the cruzes... I'm always used to very stiff brakes. Haven't tried to pump them before I start yet though. Interested to see what happends NickD.


So am I, but will have to wait a bit, just got it back. It just starting doing this Memorial Day, hardly would call this normal, and replacement was approved by GM. Only had to deal with two bolts and two hose fittings, had to put a wrench on those, got another 1/32nd of a turn. Did a neat job, could find no fluid spillage. Said they bled the brakes, fuild is to the to top, but the cap was a bit loose. Not that I am fussy or anything like this.

Also said they replace a backup light under warranty, bulb was burnt out. Just replaced those a couple of months ago with SilverStars for more brightness. So much for SilverStars.

Would post your problem in the GM ask section, very helpful people there.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

So did it fix the problem Nick?


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Will be on the interstate tonight, will let you know. Around town with constant use of the brake pedal, is okay.

New master cylinder looks exactly like the old one.


----------



## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

NickD said:


> New master cylinder looks exactly like the old one.


So I assume it's the cheaper of the two you showed pictures of? Do you have part numbers for them?


----------



## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

NickD said:


> Will be on the interstate tonight, will let you know. Around town with constant use of the brake pedal, is okay.
> 
> New master cylinder looks exactly like the old one.


Hey Nick,

I'm looking forward to hearing about any updates you may have regarding this concern. Let me know if you have any further questions or concerns!

Best,

Patsy G
Chevrolet Customer Care


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Seems like my life is minute to minute, trip last night had to be canceled. Noticed the brake pedal was more mushy, but driving around town, cleared up. Must have been some air left in near the top of the master cylinder that can bubble out.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Apparently no more half or more down pedal problems, but still feels a bit mushy. Must still be some air in the system.

Feel the brakes are safe, but let it go for a bit the way it is. But have all the stuff I need to bleed them myself. With 28K on the car, a bit curious about brake wear. Seem to be using them a lot more as this darn thing won't slow down with downshifting.


----------



## anthonysmith93 (Jul 15, 2015)

NickD said:


> Apparently no more half or more down pedal problems, but still feels a bit mushy. Must still be some air in the system.
> 
> Feel the brakes are safe, but let it go for a bit the way it is. But have all the stuff I need to bleed them myself. With 28K on the car, a bit curious about brake wear. Seem to be using them a lot more as this darn thing won't slow down with downshifting.


*So what's actually normal in these cars then? I feel my brake pedal has to be pushed way too far down (half way) to come to a stop, and the very slightest lift of my foot and it's creaking forward...I used a friends 2015 honda accord...barely even thought about touching the pedal and that thing screeched to a halt...that's what I'm talking about haha....do Cruzes actually ever have a sensitive brake pedal?*


----------



## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

We have two Cruzen in the family, a CTD and aSRI-V 1.6T manual and both have a good pedal feel and stop with no problems. I am guessing that the cars with a low pedal have rear drum brakes as ours are all disc.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Have to say the power assist requires more pedal, with the engine off, pressing the brake pedal three times to release the vacuum reserve, get full brakes with about a half an inch of travel. If they are adjusted correctly. With power assist, more like an inch of an inch and a half.

Rear disc brakes are adjusted by working the parking brakes, rear drum brakes, have to back up and while moving yet, hit the brake pedal. Can do this twenty times to get closer to a full pedal, if not, the adjusters are not working properly, with discs,the ratcheting is not working, that was my problem, could work that parking brake all day without results. With drums, Cruze is more susceptible to poor self adjustment because they went to weaker springs, all the contact points for the shoes must be corrosion free, and anti-seize works as the best lubricant. 

In either case, the brake pedal will come up by pumping the brakes, have to let the pedal come full up, then instantly hit it again and again.

If pumping the brakes does not bring up the pedal, and the pedal feels soft, you have air in the system, can pump all day and the pedal will not come up. New problem caused by adding ABS, has all kinds of cavities on the inside that can trap air.

This was easy to do with older GM vehicles, just hot wire the ABS pump and run it while bleeding and keeping the master cylinder full between each wheel. Pressure bleeding does not work, Idiots that designed the Cruze makes us need a GM Tech II scanner as the only means to operate the pump and is the shop manual recommended way, but don't expect your dealer to do this, dumb basterds don't even know how to read. 

Other error on the Cruze is using those brake pad holders with stainless steel clips, road salt gets trapped in their expanding those clips so that the pads cannot return to the home position burning the hail out of the rotor. Designed by idiots.


----------



## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

The park brake should not affect the rear foot brake operation, with all disc brakes, unless it is sticking some how. In nearly four years I have had no problem with either the foot or parking brake. Having said that we don't have to worry about salt on the road as no snow ever. Even when I drive to the snowy mountains in winter, there is no salt on the road, mind you I haven't taken the Cruze there yet.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

It was around 1975 government banned studded snow tires and started dumping literally tons of snow on the roads. Been a problem every since, not only with the brakes but the entire vehicle rusting out.

You can find articles on this subject on the internet, costing the consumers, billions of dollars plus doing a lot of road and bridge damage.


----------



## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

NickD said:


> It was around 1975 government banned studded snow tires and started dumping literally tons of snow on the roads. Been a problem every since, not only with the brakes but the entire vehicle rusting out.
> 
> You can find articles on this subject on the internet, costing the consumers, billions of dollars plus doing a lot of road and bridge damage.


That must be why there are lots of 20 plus year old cars on our roads, rust is easier to control here in Australia.


----------



## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Used car dealers around here drive to here with six guys packed into one car to bring five back.

Auto Auction Orlando | Auto Auction Orlando - Buy Directly from Dealer only Auctions in Orlando

To get rust free cars. Entire SW USA is loaded with older vehicles in great shape, provided they keep them in the shade away from that red hot sun.


----------

