# Farwell - Thanks for all the good advice



## BU54 (Nov 24, 2014)

Well bud good luck and your most certainly right about this forum and the knowledge of the people here, priceless!!
OH and thanks for your service!!!


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Happy sailing, we’ll miss you around here...thanks for your contributions over the years.

PS Avalon is a smooth car with decent power, enjoy.


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## CruzeDan (May 17, 2015)

Toyota is a solid product. When I move on from my diesel it will most likely be to a Toyota.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Good luck and sorry to see you go. 

That Toyota 2GR is one of my favorite V6 engines on the market - silky smooth and tons of power when you really lay into it.


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## Blasirl (Mar 31, 2015)

Ya'll come back and visit now, ya hear!


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

when did the avalon become a choice for you ? just now cuz of price point? or? did you set out looking for larger car or deal was just real good?

how long did you consider it before signing as compared to the ctd purchase?

just curious aboot ppls buying patterns both in general and in relation to the ctd....volt seems to be the 'logical' next car, ASSUMING you got the ctd for the fuel economy...but lotsa ppl got it for the tq, or any other reason that is important to them


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

boraz said:


> when did the avalon become a choice for you ? just now cuz of price point? or? did you set out looking for larger car or deal was just real good?
> 
> how long did you consider it before signing as compared to the ctd purchase?
> 
> just curious aboot ppls buying patterns both in general and in relation to the ctd....volt seems to be the 'logical' next car, ASSUMING you got the ctd for the fuel economy...but lotsa ppl got it for the tq, or any other reason that is important to them


The Avalon became a real choice last Saturday. After the issues with CTD, I started to look around. My first priority was to move into a vehicle with a V6. I knew a gas 4 banger would not be in the same league as the 2.0 CTD. To make up for the 2.0 TD, I'd need two more naturally aspirated cylinders. I considered an Accord, but my brother has had just a bunch of crappy problems with his, very un-Honda like. Decided to stay away from Honda. I considered the Malibu, but I've become anti-Turbo in the last year or so. In my very limited and very humble opinion, I just think turbos are too hard on the hardware. I considered a Fusion & Taurus as well. What pushed me back to Toyota was our 4Runner. It has been perfect since we took delivery. The only time it has set foot back in the dealer is for oil changes and tire rotations. My son has a 2015 Rav4 and it has been rock solid as well with no warranty issues at all. 

So I went to the local Toyota dealer to take a look at the Camry's. I like the 2018 redesign, and they've upped the power in the V6 as well as an 8 speed transmission. I was hoping to find a left over 17, but Toyota had a $3,000.00 rebate on them and they vanished, at least the V6 versions did. They still have a few 4 cylinder models out there. The Avalons were right next to the Camry's and I just started looking at those. The Avalons sticker from $34k to $~42K. I came across a XLE (base) sticker for $34k, which was cheaper than the V6 Camry's they had on the lot. Toyota already has a $2k rebate on the 2018 Avalon. It turned into a no brainer at that point. jblackburn is right about that engine, it is silky smooth and will push you back in the seat. 

When I bought the Cruze in Feb of 2015, I had been reading about them in the automotive press for a few weeks. The car I was driving before the Cruze was a 2006 Mazda Miata with 165,000 miles on it. It needed a top, tires, brakes, and a few other things. Tires & brakes were no big deal, I did not want to mess with the top. Plus, I was really tired of driving a 6 speed manual in DC/Baltimore rush hour traffic. I found a left over 2014 in Feb of 2015 and got a really good deal on it. I thought the car was a very good idea, and it appealed to me as something different and very cool mechanically. I had no intention of ever buying a Jetta TDI or other VW product. I have had several GM products and been happy with them. When I bought the CTD, I really just focused in on it being a commuter not really caring about how much room was in the car for passengers. I was intrested in the 45 MPG. Its front seat was big enough for me and I was fine with that. That was pretty short sighted. I figured with the wife's car all was good. I have a special needs daughter, she's 19 and will be with my wife and I until we can no longer care for her. She was a consideration in the Avalon purchase, having a little more room for her when all three of us are in the car. I've also recently started to haul some of my coworkers to meetings and my car is the only one without car seats in it. You get really friendly with 5 adults in the Cruze. 

I kicked the idea around of the Volt and the Bolt. But Toyota gave me a really good price, and a good trade offer for my Cruze. All in all I'm pretty happy, and the value of the Avalon just about can't be beat.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

JRB'sOilburningCruze said:


> The Avalon became a real choice last Saturday. After the issues with CTD, I started to look around. My first priority was to move into a vehicle with a V6. I knew a gas 4 banger would not be in the same league as the 2.0 CTD. To make up for the 2.0 TD, I'd need two more naturally aspirated cylinders. I considered an Accord, but my brother has had just a bunch of crappy problems with his, very un-Honda like. Decided to stay away from Honda. I considered the Malibu, but I've become anti-Turbo in the last year or so. In my very limited and very humble opinion, I just think turbos are too hard on the hardware. I considered a Fusion & Taurus as well. What pushed me back to Toyota was our 4Runner. It has been perfect since we took delivery. The only time it has set foot back in the dealer is for oil changes and tire rotations. My son has a 2015 Rav4 and it has been rock solid as well with no warranty issues at all.
> 
> So I went to the local Toyota dealer to take a look at the Camry's. I like the 2018 redesign, and they've upped the power in the V6 as well as an 8 speed transmission. I was hoping to find a left over 17, but Toyota had a $3,000.00 rebate on them and they vanished, at least the V6 versions did. They still have a few 4 cylinder models out there. The Avalons were right next to the Camry's and I just started looking at those. The Avalons sticker from $34k to $~42K. I came across a XLE (base) sticker for $34k, which was cheaper than the V6 Camry's they had on the lot. Toyota already has a $2k rebate on the 2018 Avalon. It turned into a no brainer at that point. jblackburn is right about that engine, it is silky smooth and will push you back in the seat.
> 
> ...


10-4

i cross shopped the ctd, eco and 2005 crown vic lol...cost of ownership after ~8yrs are pretty similar, crown vic and ctd drive similar, grew to like the smaller size of the ctd, its always just me.

i like seeing ppl choices and why they choose a brand over another brand becuase of past experience or past experience of friend, even though not the same product within the brand.. gm oversold the practicality of the ctd in non highway applications, and now theyll suffer the stain on their entire brand from more than a few.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for being a part of the forum and sharing your experiences. I am at 45k miles and having som issues, so far dealer can’t find the problem or it hasn’t duplicated for them. Hope they figured it out this afternoon. If I have continuous issues, I will be shopping for something else. I tend to agree with your assement of four cylinder turbos, if I have to put premium gas in them to get longevity I will find something else. Drove the cruze hatch gas past two days, avg over 40 and it’s decent and actually drives nice, just not real exciting and no torque or balls, just a commute car. Again, good luck with your new car. Congrats


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

After my last experience with a Toyota I’ll never buy another one again. They took me for a lot of money and pretty much told me to eat ****. I had to get a lawyer involved with them and they still didn’t care. 

Theyre good vehicles. But if you have a problem under warranty and they decide they don’t want to cover it, you’re totally out of luck. With the volume of cars they sell they won’t bother to help you. They’ll just lose a customer and move on.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Not a Toyota fan one bit, so...enjoy it is the most I can say. I'd have gone with a Volt. I still haven't filled mine up since March.

Anyway - you don't have to leave, you know, haha.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> After my last experience with a Toyota I’ll never buy another one again. They took me for a lot of money and pretty much told me to eat ****. I had to get a lawyer involved with them and they still didn’t care.
> 
> Theyre good vehicles. But if you have a problem under warranty and they decide they don’t want to cover it, you’re totally out of luck. With the volume of cars they sell they won’t bother to help you. They’ll just lose a customer and move on.


What happened with your Toyota? What year & model and what would they not cover?


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

To the OP your welcome to stay. Your an asset and can provide your experience about the new car here and I am sure there are some Toyota fans as well here. Never owned one here. You write well and when asked questions about why you made the decision you made, you shared in a very reasonable articulate and deep way. I really respect and appreciate that.


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## justin13703 (May 2, 2016)

JRB'sOilburningCruze said:


> What happened with your Toyota? What year & model and what would they not cover?


I bought an 07 Tacoma from Younger Toyota in Hagerstown MD in around 2010. It had a supercharger installed on it by Younger Toyota before I bought it. So I ended up paying to have the truck “certified” which is basically a multi point inspection to verify that the vehicle is in perfect condition. They also talked me into an extended warranty. I had a long conversation with the manager before I bought the warranty, about whether or not the supercharger being on there will cause warranty issues. He said nope you’re fine, we installed it, we sold you the truck with it on there already, we certified it, and he showed me on the warranty paperwork where it says that it does cover turbochargers and superchargers. So between the truck, certification, and warranty, I spend A LOT of money on this vehicle.

Fast forward to a few years later, still well within my warranty terms. The truck starts having issues with grinding when trying to go into 5th gear (manual transmission). They say you’re still under warranty, bring it in and we will look at it. I drop it off. They call me a few days later and tell me that they will have to remove the transmission and open it up before they decide if they are going to cover it. If they don’t cover it, then I will be responsible for the labor of them removing and opening up the transmission, the cost of the new transmission, and the labor to reinstall it. I never beat on this truck, so I told them to go ahead because it was not an issue caused by abuse.

A week later, I get a call saying that they are not covering it due to “abuse” and it will be 1300 dollars to re install the broken transmission back into the truck. I told them they’re crazy, how would I beat on a vehicle in 5th gear, and how would the factory tires still be on this thing after 70k miles if I was beating on it hard enough to destroy the transmission. They wouldn’t hear any of it. They literally had no defense. They just kept saying “abuse” with no proof whatsoever strictly because they didn’t want to eat the cost to repair the truck.

Long story short, I got a lawyer and told them to keep the truck. I let it sit there for 9 months while I was paying on it the whole time just because I refused to pay these people. I eventually went in there with a flatbed and picked it up, still with no transmission in it, and told them to take me to court. I never heard back from them. I picked up a used trans and me and a friend installed it on his garage floor, and I sold the truck.

Ill never, ever own another Toyota after that mess. The best part was, about 4 months into this fight with them, while my truck was still sitting in there torn apart, they called me in and sat me down in the service manager’s office. I thought they were going to take care of my situation finally. They told me they would make me a good deal on buying a new car from them. I told them to eat **** and walked out. The funny thing is, everyone from the people at the dealership to the corporate offices told me that I am right, especially with the proof I showed them. But they still refused to cover any of it under warranty.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

justin13703 said:


> I bought an 07 Tacoma from Younger Toyota in Hagerstown MD in around 2010. It had a supercharger installed on it by Younger Toyota before I bought it. So I ended up paying to have the truck “certified” which is basically a multi point inspection to verify that the vehicle is in perfect condition. They also talked me into an extended warranty. I had a long conversation with the manager before I bought the warranty, about whether or not the supercharger being on there will cause warranty issues. He said nope you’re fine, we installed it, we sold you the truck with it on there already, we certified it, and he showed me on the warranty paperwork where it says that it does cover turbochargers and superchargers. So between the truck, certification, and warranty, I spend A LOT of money on this vehicle.
> 
> Fast forward to a few years later, still well within my warranty terms. The truck starts having issues with grinding when trying to go into 5th gear (manual transmission). They say you’re still under warranty, bring it in and we will look at it. I drop it off. They call me a few days later and tell me that they will have to remove the transmission and open it up before they decide if they are going to cover it. If they don’t cover it, then I will be responsible for the labor of them removing and opening up the transmission, the cost of the new transmission, and the labor to reinstall it. I never beat on this truck, so I told them to go ahead because it was not an issue caused by abuse.
> 
> ...


That sucks.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

Pic of new car.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Very nice! Hopefully your Toyota will last like my 02 Tacoma Prerunner did. 

Drove that truck for 9 years and 225,000 miles, never once had a service issue other than regular maintenance, tires, brakes, wipers. It was a great truck, only sold it because I needed to tow much larger loads.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Congrats! moving from a Cruze to pretty much anything you lose MPG off the bat. Don't feel like you have to leave now, you still welcome here to help others that may come across the issues you had. 

As for Accord, yeah the V6 is nice in a coupe attached to a manual but there is tons of stuff in the car that Honda did purposely to force you into an Acura. Radio, heated wheel and sound deadening being key points of lackluster. Only real "Mechanical Woes" in the V6 is VCM transition and the LED DRLs die like crazy. Having a non V6 my headlight cost about $550 or so before warranty. I hope the 2018's have a better shelf life or they pretty much figured we all just lease and could care less. 

As for different brands, some brands appear to last well in general with trade offs of what you give up from the others. For me and GM I pretty much spent soo much time in the service bay I knew everyone. I was more ready to pay for a service vs Honda. Honda service bays look 120% better compared to my literally brand new from the ground Chevy dealership but their ways of pricing is pretty much on par with Acura. My last oil change if I took it to them would have been $140 because they charged for the vehicle inspection that GM pretty much does everytime you drive in. Despite all those things Honda for it's class still to this day sells manual Accords which GM is not interested in for US market. To do this I have to go ATS. I guess in short, you could sell a toaster on wheels if you had the features another toaster didn't have the buyer valued more over the other. 

As for Toyota, that's usually not the case. From prior experiences and co workers when I lived in the DMV, Gun laws and dealerships are a lost cause. Even living in Virginia the service got marginally better than Maryland. End result is if the could make it to NJ that's where folks went. Me being stationed in NJ and having a Subaru it worked out well since SoA literally was 8 mins from that dealership.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

JRB'sOilburningCruze said:


> Pic of new car.
> 
> View attachment 244010


Hurray it's not another silver Toyota on the road! 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Hurray it's not another silver Toyota on the road!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I call it "Toyota Non-Offensive Blue"


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

Merc6 said:


> Congrats! moving from a Cruze to pretty much anything you lose MPG off the bat. Don't feel like you have to leave now, you still welcome here to help others that may come across the issues you had.
> 
> As for Accord, yeah the V6 is nice in a coupe attached to a manual but there is tons of stuff in the car that Honda did purposely to force you into an Acura. Radio, heated wheel and sound deadening being key points of lackluster. Only real "Mechanical Woes" in the V6 is VCM transition and the LED DRLs die like crazy. Having a non V6 my headlight cost about $550 or so before warranty. I hope the 2018's have a better shelf life or they pretty much figured we all just lease and could care less.
> 
> ...



The 40MPG of the CTD will be missed for sure. But the trade off is a larger car, & silky smooth 268HP V6. I can live without a stick shift option on my interstate cruiser. If I were looking to buy a stick, it would be a Mustang or Camaro. 

Once my "free" oil changes expire from Toyota and warranty issues, most likely this car will never set foot/tire in a dealership again. Most of the maintenance stuff I can do myself. For those things that I can't do, I have 
a local independent that does good work for a fair price. 

The dealer that did the warranty work on the CTD gave it their all. I think once the CTD's come in for repair, the dealer is hamstrung by GM. It seems the dealer immediately works with GM's support center to troubleshoot. If the car comes in for Code XYZ, GM tells the tech what to do and what to replace. On top of that I think there is a troubleshoot tree that must be followed for the dealer to get paid.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

jblackburn said:


> hurray it's not another silver toyota on the road!
> 
> Sent from my sm-g950u using tapatalk


lol, guilty!


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## Gator (Jul 14, 2013)

Good luck with your new car. Dont be a stranger.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

Your not Asian and Male and bought an Avalon? Just delete your Chevy..


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

*RIP Avalon*

Dad’s ‘08 Avalon after accident this week. 

Thankfully Dad and other driver OK despite airbags failing to deploy on the Avalon. Assuming it was due to ‘glancing’ blow rather than head-on.









Gonna miss her, she was a nice, smooth running, problem-free car even after 150,000 miles.


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## magnusson (Jun 15, 2014)

Just kidding. Good luck man, nice looking ride.


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## 17Hatch6MT (Dec 28, 2015)

Farwell and Godbye!


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

Ouch! I hope the insurance company takes care of things.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Borrowed my friend's Highlander to move something big the other day...merged onto the highway behind some idiot doing 30 MPH, with traffic coming up fast behind us.

Man, that 2GR can MOVE that giant hunk of an SUV when you open the taps! 

IMO Toyota has always built a way better V6 than they do a 4-cylinder. Honda's always had the more refined...and definitely more enthusiastic...4-cylinders.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

jblackburn said:


> Borrowed my friend's Highlander to move something big the other day...merged onto the highway behind some idiot doing 30 MPH, with traffic coming up fast behind us.
> 
> Man, that 2GR can MOVE that giant hunk of an SUV when you open the taps!
> 
> IMO Toyota has always build a way better V6 than they do a 4-cylinder. Honda's always had the more refined...and definitely more enthusiastic...4-cylinders.


Looks like it does 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and the quarter in 15.5, so it's on part with some of the quicker vehicles in the segment. For as obnoxiously hideous and large design as it is, it weighs right around 4500 lbs.

Grand Cherokee with the V6 and 4WD does it 0.1 second faster (for both), while weighing roughly 100-150 lbs more. I'm sure the ZF 8-speed helps. And I know from experience that doing the 8-2 nonsequential downshift, even with the Pentastar, will rock your world.


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## JRB'sOilburningCruze (Feb 25, 2015)

The 3.5 in the Avalon is surprisingly fast. That is what really pushed me into seriously considering it. When I test drove it, I was half expecting it to be a complete slug. I really got on it on US 50 in Annapolis, surprised the salesman a bit, took it right up to 75 with little effort. The 6 Speed is silky smooth and Toyota has it programmed very well. The new Camry's have a 301HP V6. So I'm sure that really moves down the road. I think the 2GR-FE 3.5 is rated at 270HP. 

I have a 4.0L V6 in my 2016 4Runner, it really does not come to life until you have it spun way up. Toyota has it tuned pretty strangely. The 4Runner is heavy, would do so much better with a V8. 

My brother has an Accord with the 3.5 and it does very well.


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