# 2017 Diesel: First Info (Recovered)



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> This must mean that the updated 2.0 diesel will find its way into something else.
> 
> Maybe Malibu. Maybe Verrano. Maybe ATS.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

obermd said:


> I wonder if the current Cruze CTD will be continued for another year. I know the current Cruze will be continued as a rental car edition for 2016.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dvan5693 said:


> Found this. They claim the 1.6 diesel to be 10% more efficient than the 2.0 diesel.
> 
> Chief Engineer Discusses Opel's New 1.6L Turbo Diesel Engine | GM Authority


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> If they'd offer it in a manual transmission, it could finally start eating away at the TDI.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> tomko said:
> 
> 
> > this must mean that the updated 2.0 diesel will find its way into something else.
> ...




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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

ironflower said:


> Anyone know what transmissions will be offered?


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> The current body style will no longer have the diesel for the '16 model year. I am not yet clear on whether they will bring the new diesel out in 2017 as a 2018 model, or in 2016 as a 2017 model.
> 
> The last production of the current Cruze diesel was on the day we were in Lordstown this year.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Robby said:


> Had heard the use of DEF would be unneccessary on the new engine.....the interview dispels that......good find!
> 
> Rob


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

oilburner said:


> obermd said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if the current Cruze CTD will be continued for another year. I know the current Cruze will be continued as a rental car edition for 2016.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

oilburner said:


> crap .. didn`t see your post diesel.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

carbon02 said:


> Dvan5693 said:
> 
> 
> > Found this. They claim the 1.6 diesel to be 10% more efficient than the 2.0 diesel.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

revjpeterson said:


> I'm glad I got my 2014 Diesel and by the time I'm ready to replace it in 2023, the Gen. 3 Cruze should be coming out, because the news about this Diesel engine is really disappointing to me. Psychologically, if you even mention an engine to me that is 1.x Liters, my ears automatically shut off and I start looking elsewhere. If the current Diesel had been a 1.9 instead of a 2.0, it would have been reflex for me to just lose interest immediately.
> 
> They refer to this 1.6TD as "similarly powered" to current 2.0 Diesels, but to drop from 151hp/264-280 torque to 137/235 hardly seems comparable, and would be an immediate deal-breaker for me, in spite of the fuel economy. (Now really, they drop the displacement 20%, slash the performance by 10-15%, and all they can squeeze out is a 10% fuel economy increase - what gives?) I grew up in the land of Chevy 454 and 400 big block motors and the supercharged 3800. I always considered my 3.1L V6 engines to be undesirably small. It's only because my Diesel feels as fast, if not faster, than the supercharged 3.8 I traded it for, while burning half the fuel, that I gave up my vow never to own an engine with fewer than 6 cylinders.
> 
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> revjpeterson said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad I got my 2014 Diesel and by the time I'm ready to replace it in 2023, the Gen. 3 Cruze should be coming out, because the news about this Diesel engine is really disappointing to me. Psychologically, if you even mention an engine to me that is 1.x Liters, my ears automatically shut off and I start looking elsewhere. If the current Diesel had been a 1.9 instead of a 2.0, it would have been reflex for me to just lose interest immediately.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> I like big engines and power as well and have had my share of them. With CAFE standards forcing efficiency all car manufactures are being forced to reduce engine size. BMW had a diesel a couple years ago that didn't really sell well but dang was it fun to drive and had burn out power, I think it was a BMW 335d. It felt like V8 and got high 30s on highway if your foot wasn't in it. My opinion is BMW makes a really nice car but can be a bit expensive to maintain. Makes the chevy Cruze maintenance very reasonable in comparison.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dvan5693 said:


> revjpeterson said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad I got my 2014 Diesel and by the time I'm ready to replace it in 2023, the Gen. 3 Cruze should be coming out, because the news about this Diesel engine is really disappointing to me. Psychologically, if you even mention an engine to me that is 1.x Liters, my ears automatically shut off and I start looking elsewhere. If the current Diesel had been a 1.9 instead of a 2.0, it would have been reflex for me to just lose interest immediately.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

revjpeterson said:


> diesel said:
> 
> 
> > The new one is also supposed to be at least 250 lb lighter, so I would imagine performance would be similar.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

cammyfive said:


> I think like everything else tastes change so GM must also change. Our current CTDs are absurdly heavy for the class that they are in but we, well I can only speak for myself and my conservative driving, still get mid to high 50s in highway driving; imagine what a car that is 250+lbs less heavy with a motor that is 10% more efficient will be able to achieve. Again, this is total speculation, but I don't think the performance will change at all. I work for GM on marketing side and this car is marketed as a comfortable economy car that is set to beat the competition when it comes to tech and features. The diesel will just be icing on the cake for those of us that appreciate the low end grunt and - finally - a car that can consistently beat the EPA highway ratings!


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Sperry said:


> The smaller diesel should weigh less than the 2.0 so the 2017 CTD might weigh closer to 300 lbs less than our current cars.. Give me the hatchback option and I'm probably trading mine in.. Just hope they keep the fuel tank the same size


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> Not sure if they have released whether a manual transmission with be offered on the 2017 diesel or not, if they would offer a manual the mileage might be in low to mid 50s and could be able to compete against vw tdi. Also if they would provide more levels of trim on the diesel would help it compete and sell in higher volume.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

revjpeterson said:


> I could cut 175 lbs. from my current CTD just by going on a diet. Then imagine what kind of fuel economy I could get. :dazed052:


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

smkn600ctd said:


> With those number's...and GM killing the diesel off after 2 years...and coming out with a brand new diesel...I am sorry, I would over at VW.
> 
> So pretty much, our cars are boat anchors in the marketplace (this new cruze news really pisses me off if you cant tell)


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> They need to allow the automatic on the diesels to shift to a higher gear at a lower speed. We have the tq to allow us to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

jalaner said:


> Hopefully the weight reduction and smaller displacement will help to improve the city fuel consumption. I'm getting about 22 mpg in slow city traffic in my 2014 CTD. The timing chain is a nice change from timing belt. I prefer the heavy duty, high graphite cast iron block in the current CTD over the aluminum block Opel 1.6.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> Is the new 1.6TD 100% going to have a timing chain?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from the sexy electrician


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dvan5693 said:


> Indyeco6spd said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure if they have released whether a manual transmission with be offered on the 2017 diesel or not, if they would offer a manual the mileage might be in low to mid 50s and could be able to compete against vw tdi. Also if they would provide more levels of trim on the diesel would help it compete and sell in higher volume.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dvan5693 said:


> revjpeterson said:
> 
> 
> > When I'm doing straight highway runs I can hover around that 60mpg number right now (I have 50-mile runs at 66.4 and 25-mile runs at 67.8 currently). I'd love a 50-60mpg rated Cruze, but not at the expense of a vehicle that is respectably capable. (doing away with mandates for nonsense like EGR and other economy-robbing emissions equipment would go a long way toward this) I didn't expect bigger, but I was surprised to hear they were going smaller without an equivalent option to the current Diesel. I could see if they were making a 1.6TD that was putting out 150/260, but to take a 10-15% performance hit while only providing a 7% weight reduction is still a losing equation for power:weight ratio. The current CTD maxed out the amount I was willing to compromise performance in order to get fuel economy.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

PanJet said:


> Dvan5693 said:
> 
> 
> > Let's not forget the Cruze is an economy car. It is not intended what so ever, for performance. Any diesel passenger car the US is only for economy. None of them are fast, or barely even quick. You're in the wrong market sir lol.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

PanJet said:


> smkn600ctd said:
> 
> 
> > With those number's...and GM killing the diesel off after 2 years...and coming out with a brand new diesel...I am sorry, I would over at VW.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

revjpeterson said:


> Dvan5693 said:
> 
> 
> > Let's not forget the Cruze is an economy car. It is not intended what so ever, for performance. Any diesel passenger car the US is only for economy. None of them are fast, or barely even quick. You're in the wrong market sir lol.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

smkn600ctd said:


> PanJet said:
> 
> 
> > A used Cruze is generally a boat anchor within a few months off the lot anyway. Besides, the new diesel doesn't come out for close to two years with probably no numbers on them for a year or more.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Dvan5693 said:


> PanJet said:
> 
> 
> > That's not entirely true. If all people wanted was economy, the hybrid Jetta would kill the TDI. Diesels are a good mix of power and efficiency.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Su8pack1 said:


> Looking forward to seeing it in person.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Skraeling said:


> revjpeterson said:
> 
> 
> > That's what I was getting at. Its excellent economy while maintaining adequate performance is what makes the 2.0 CTD stand out as a viable vehicle. Dialing that back even slightly makes it just another turd that will turn me back to my "no four-bangers" policy that I held to firmly for the previous 18 years of my driving life when I considered all four-cylinders to be "half an engine." Not sure yet what vehicle I'd turn to, but the available lineup will be so different by 2023 that there's no use speculating anyway.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

oilburner said:


> the rev said adequate performance not monster.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

UlyssesSG said:


> DETROIT -- Chevrolet isn't just sticking with a diesel offering on the next-generation Cruze -- it's talking tough about challenging Volkswagen for passenger-car diesel leadership in the U.S.
> 
> "We intend to aggressively go after the passenger-car [diesel] market in North America," Dan Nicholson, GM's vice president for global powertrain, told Automotive News last week.
> 
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

diesel said:


> UlyssesSG said:
> 
> 
> > Chasing Jetta, Chevy equips Cruze with a new turbodiesel
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> Seems like they've used us 2014-2015 owners as test mice to see how the diesel would do here. Now that they know we actually like them and have had only minor problems, they'll probably start pushing the marketing. First thing they need to do is get a badge figured out.
> 
> I know you guys won't agree with me on this one but I personally think they should license the TDI badge from VW. First off it's easily identifiable by even people who barely know how to pump fuel, it's a badge that people for whatever reason automatically feel resembles quality, and it's at least a badge. Not only that but I'd be shocked if it didn't get people talking, which is basically free advertising.
> 
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

plasticplant said:


> money_man said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like they've used us 2014-2015 owners as test mice to see how the diesel would do here. Now that they know we actually like them and have had only minor problems, they'll probably start pushing the marketing. First thing they need to do is get a badge figured out.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

money_man said:


> plasticplant said:
> 
> 
> > I currently sport a TDI badge on the back of my CTD. Got all shorts of questions after I put it on (that's a diesel??). I most likely will replace it with the GM diesel badge if they make a more identifiable one for the 2017s.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

skraeling said:


> i still wonder if those of us wanting a **** mt will still be out in the cold. I want options dang it!




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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Aphidman said:


> I am wondering if the new diesel model will be a separate trim line outside of the L/LS/LT/Premiere trims (as it and the Eco are today), or whether it will be an engine option within one of the standard trims. No mention was made on a separate Diesel trim level in the announcement (at least in the coverage I have read).
> 
> The new diesel would be a good basis for a Touring Edition of the Cruze. Diesel engine, standard navigation, adaptive cruise control — for those who do a lot of long highway trips. They might even try advertising it.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Zenturi said:


> money_man said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like they've used us 2014-2015 owners as test mice to see how the diesel would do here.
> ...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Su8pack1 said:


> That's good to hear.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

BlueTopaz said:


> Some times I wonder just how much attention manufactures pay to these forums and act on the positives.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Tomko said:


> Well Patsy and her team are certainly here to help with service issues. But it is unknown whether any product development or planning people check in.
> 
> We do know that GM invited Xtreme and sunline to the new model press unveil a few months ago. So GM is developing an appreciation for the role of the blogger and enthusiast. All positive things for us as end users.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

Bump!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Diesels unite...or something.

But seriously, and maybe it's an illness, but I google "2017 Cruze Diesel" news every day. I wouldn't necessarily get rid of ours...but another one might not hurt...


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## cumminsdieselfreak (Jan 26, 2015)

If they offer a diesel with a timing chain and a manual transmission I'd trade my ECO in a heartbeat.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

MP81 said:


> Diesels unite...or something.
> 
> But seriously, and maybe it's an illness, but I google "2017 Cruze Diesel" news every day. I wouldn't necessarily get rid of ours...but another one might not hurt...


LOL I'm the same way


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## MotleyCruze (Nov 17, 2013)

I hear you brothers. Haven't been on this forum for awhile, but the new Cruze has my attention. cdieselfreak, I agree. If they offered a Cruze diesel (hatch optimal, sedan acceptable) with a manual transmission, I would trade in my Volvo C30 so fast it would make your head spin. Love the new Cruze's interior, too.


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## cumminsdieselfreak (Jan 26, 2015)

MotleyCruze said:


> I hear you brothers. Haven't been on this forum for awhile, but the new Cruze has my attention. cdieselfreak, I agree. If they offered a Cruze diesel (hatch optimal, sedan acceptable) with a manual transmission, I would trade in my Volvo C30 so fast it would make your head spin. Love the new Cruze's interior, too.


Yea i forgot to mention i'd prefer a hatchback. Diesel, timing chain, manual, hatchback =


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

MP81 said:


> Diesels unite...or something.
> 
> But seriously, and maybe it's an illness, but I google "2017 Cruze Diesel" news every day. I wouldn't necessarily get rid of ours...but another one might not hurt...


Hehe, i realy lookin foward to that new Diesel, but i seriously hope they will put it in the Premier hatch with the RS pack available.

I could live w/o the hatch, but i wont buy any new Cruze w/o the RS pack, since the only new Cruze i like is with the 18s.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

The general consensus seems to be that the hatch will _not_ receive the diesel, since it is, for some reason, _not_ built at Lordstown.


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## Poje (Aug 2, 2012)

MP81 said:


> The general consensus seems to be that the hatch will _not_ receive the diesel, since it is, for some reason, _not_ built at Lordstown.


Im prety sure my next car wont be a Cruze, since i want more power. (Probably a Malibu with 2.0T or a Verano)

But if they bring the new Diesel in a Premier + RS trim, i will consider it, even if its not an Hatch.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Relevant information from an insider:



chevycruzeassembler said:


> Cant wait till u guys get to see the new diesel. You will be impressed with the thought and changes they did on new one.


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

MP81 said:


> The general consensus seems to be that the hatch will _not_ receive the diesel, since it is, for some reason, _not_ built at Lordstown.


That's what they were saying before, but that link says something different. Until there is an official announcement, we won't know for sure.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Another insider tidbit:



chevycruzeassembler said:


> As fat as diesel release it's slated for 2017 but not sure exactly when.


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

I would trade my 1LT 1.4 turbo for a 1.6 turbo diesel in a heartbeat if it came with a manual transmission. I'm not giving up my clutch, I REFUSE! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!


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## cumminsdieselfreak (Jan 26, 2015)

chevrasaki said:


> I would trade my 1LT 1.4 turbo for a 1.6 turbo diesel in a heartbeat if it came with a manual transmission. I'm not giving up my clutch, I REFUSE! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!


x2!


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

chevrasaki said:


> I would trade my 1LT 1.4 turbo for a 1.6 turbo diesel in a heartbeat if it came with a manual transmission. I'm not giving up my clutch, I REFUSE! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!





cumminsdieselfreak said:


> x2!


Funny, I was happy to move from a manual in my 2006 Jetta TDI to the Auto in the Cruze Diesel. When I did my two-week review in the new Cruze Diesel back in 2013 I thought the auto did a great job of shifting and being in the gear I wanted when I wanted it. My Jetta has a high-performance South Bend clutch that can be a pain in the left leg in traffic... Also my wife drives the car locally a lot and has some nerve issues in her back and legs that are making it more difficult to drive the heavy clutch so the auto is a welcome addition to the family. If it was a sloppy auto like some cheaper cars I would not be happy. But I think the auto in the Diesel Cruze (which I believe is a different trans than the auto in the gas Cruze) is a very good little trans and I am happy with it.

I believe Brayden Fleece has well over 50,000 miles on his Cruze Diesel with the stock trans and he is over 200 HP so it seems able to handle plenty of power too!!!

Looking forward to starting the mods on mine soon!!! So far the list includes (in no particular order) wheels, tires, brakes, audio, tuning, intake, exhaust, window tint, badges, injectors and ??? Am I missing anything?


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> Funny, I was happy to move from a manual in my 2006 Jetta TDI to the Auto in the Cruze Diesel. When I did my two-week review in the new Cruze Diesel back in 2013 I thought the auto did a great job of shifting and being in the gear I wanted when I wanted it. My Jetta has a high-performance South Bend clutch that can be a pain in the left leg in traffic... Also my wife drives the car locally a lot and has some nerve issues in her back and legs that are making it more difficult to drive the heavy clutch so the auto is a welcome addition to the family. If it was a sloppy auto like some cheaper cars I would not be happy. But I think the auto in the Diesel Cruze (which I believe is a different trans than the auto in the gas Cruze) is a very good little trans and I am happy with it.
> 
> I believe Brayden Fleece has well over 50,000 miles on his Cruze Diesel with the stock trans and he is over 200 HP so it seems able to handle plenty of power too!!!
> 
> Looking forward to starting the mods on mine soon!!! So far the list includes (in no particular order) wheels, tires, brakes, audio, tuning, intake, exhaust, window tint, badges, injectors and ??? Am I missing anything?



That's exactly why options are so great. For some people an automatic is perfect. But for people like myself an automatic transmission is Beelzebub. It spoils the driver involvement in my opinion and makes me a very bored person. Especially with all of the hills around here, automatics have no idea what is going on and end up constantly shifting gears unnecessarily. I can change the shift ferocity of the gearbox from sport mode to economy mode instantly just by how my brain thinks and my limbs move. No sport buttons to mess with or flappy paddles/manual modes to deal with. Just my left foot and my right hand orchestrating the whole mechanical symphony precisely to my liking. 

I know exactly how the car will react and feel when I'm shifting gears. I can get into neutral when coming to a stop. Automatics seems to have a weird sensation of still trying to move the car forward when I'm trying to stop I don't like that feeling. I don't like trying to feather the gas precisely so I can use the most of what gear I'm in without the trans shifting for me. Yeah I know theres manual mode balh blah blah. But I can hold gears when I know a hill is coming up or leave it in 6th if I know there's no reason to downshift, i'll soon be off the gas. Also with a clutch, I have infinite gear ratios, I can sacrifice some clutch pad to use gears in between gears if I deem necessary. I can't explain each and every reason I prefer to drive manual there's thousands of them, but I'm reminded how much I hate automatics every time I drive one.

It takes different strokes for different folks. I prefer to do the stroking myself. Again, options are great cause I can get a manual and you can get an automatic. With options, neither of us are forced to drive the other one.


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## Chris Tobin (Feb 23, 2016)

chevrasaki said:


> That's exactly why options are so great. For some people an automatic is perfect. But for people like myself an automatic transmission is Beelzebub. It spoils the driver involvement in my opinion and makes me a very bored person. Especially with all of the hills around here, automatics have no idea what is going on and end up constantly shifting gears unnecessarily. I can change the shift ferocity of the gearbox from sport mode to economy mode instantly just by how my brain thinks and my limbs move. No sport buttons to mess with or flappy paddles/manual modes to deal with. Just my left foot and my right hand orchestrating the whole mechanical symphony precisely to my liking.
> 
> I know exactly how the car will react and feel when I'm shifting gears. I can get into neutral when coming to a stop. Automatics seems to have a weird sensation of still trying to move the car forward when I'm trying to stop I don't like that feeling. I don't like trying to feather the gas precisely so I can use the most of what gear I'm in without the trans shifting for me. Yeah I know theres manual mode balh blah blah. But I can hold gears when I know a hill is coming up or leave it in 6th if I know there's no reason to downshift, i'll soon be off the gas. Also with a clutch, I have infinite gear ratios, I can sacrifice some clutch pad to use gears in between gears if I deem necessary. I can't explain each and every reason I prefer to drive manual there's thousands of them, but I'm reminded how much I hate automatics every time I drive one.
> 
> It takes different strokes for different folks. I prefer to do the stroking myself. Again, options are great cause I can get a manual and you can get an automatic. With options, neither of us are forced to drive the other one.


I think you may have read a little too much into my post. I enjoy a manual especially in spirited driving and especially compared to a poorly calibrated or poorly shifted automatic... But the auto in the Cruze Diesel, in my opinion is a very good automatic. I drove the Tail of the Dragon several times when we had the Cruze diesel test car and I always felt it was in the gear that it should be in and the gear I wanted it to be in, even under braking it would properly downshift and assist in braking. I have driven cars, trucks and motorcycles (including race cars, trucks and buggies) for nearly forty years now and have driven a huge variety and with a small engine that is not very powerful a manual can help to cover over the sins of the engine and an automatic can amplify them. The Cruze Diesel is a small engine but it is powerful with tons of torque down low and that coupled with the lock-up converter and proper programming provides a good driving experience that I honestly do not think would be enhanced by a manual transmission.

My son's Jetta TDI has a 4-speed automatic and it is not as fun to drive as our 5-speed manual TDI. I have also driven gas Jettas with the auto that I was less than happy with. Flappy paddles don't really do it for me either!!!

While, I hate that it is happening I believe than in probably 10 years or less we will not have manual transmissions except for in very limited situations in the consumer automotive world. I was at the press conference when Ford announced they were no longer offering a manual trans in the F-150 a few years ago and all of us present let out a sign of disgust and hands flew into the air to ask WHY??? Ford revealed that in the last year they only sold something like 1400 manual transmission F-150 trucks. The consumer market here in this country is not buying or desiring manual transmissions enough for the manufacturers to justify the expense. Remember when a manual ALWAYS offered superior ratios and much better mileage, well those times are gone with advances in automatic transmission ratios, planetary gears and lock-up torque converters the automatics are offering more gear selection ratios and in many cases as good or better fuel mileage. This is the world we live in.

Soon if we want a manual transmission we will have to swing a leg over and ride, and even the automatic is starting to rear its head in the motorcycle world as well...


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

Chris Tobin said:


> I think you may have read a little too much into my post. I enjoy a manual especially in spirited driving and especially compared to a poorly calibrated or poorly shifted automatic... But the auto in the Cruze Diesel, in my opinion is a very good automatic. I drove the Tail of the Dragon several times when we had the Cruze diesel test car and I always felt it was in the gear that it should be in and the gear I wanted it to be in, even under braking it would properly downshift and assist in braking. I have driven cars, trucks and motorcycles (including race cars, trucks and buggies) for nearly forty years now and have driven a huge variety and with a small engine that is not very powerful a manual can help to cover over the sins of the engine and an automatic can amplify them. The Cruze Diesel is a small engine but it is powerful with tons of torque down low and that coupled with the lock-up converter and proper programming provides a good driving experience that I honestly do not think would be enhanced by a manual transmission.
> 
> My son's Jetta TDI has a 4-speed automatic and it is not as fun to drive as our 5-speed manual TDI. I have also driven gas Jettas with the auto that I was less than happy with. Flappy paddles don't really do it for me either!!!
> 
> ...


I'm certainly not saying the automatic in the Cruze is a bad transmission. It could be the best transmission ever made. All I'm saying is, I would still want to shift my own gears. It's a vital form of self expression. It's a source of entertainment and demands concentration. It reminds you that you're not perfect and you should always be trying to improve your shifting skills.

As for disappearing manuals, I have to disagree. People have been saying for 2 decades that the manual will soon disappear. It has definitely become more rare but I do not believe it will disappear all together. The disappearing manual is becoming a circle jerk. Dealers aren't ordering them, so they aren't readily available. Since no one can get one unless you're looking really hard, no one learns to drive manual. Since no one can drive manual, they buy automatics, and since no one buys manuals, dealers don't order them, ad nauseum. Now it seems the only cars you can get with a clutch are performance vehicles and base models.

Automatics becoming more popular is really only the case for America. In basically every European and Asian country, they order more manuals than automatics. It's likely due to the general lack of interest in driving here. Possibly also lack of driver training, Not really sure why people here hate driving so much and would seemingly rather cut themselves than drive any distance while paying attention to the road. 

Funny you should mention Ford too, because they're probably the only American automaker to offer certain trims with a manual transmission ONLY. (Focus ST and Fietsa ST, Focus 1.0 Ecoboost and Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost) The argument can be made all day that modern automatics are better in every measurable way. Quicker shift times, better economy, etc. 

But in every immeasurable way, I feel manual transmissions are superior. Doesn't matter how good an automatics is, I'm not interested. The only thing I would want an auto in would be a super car with a dual clutch transmission. Where I would need to focus all of my concentration on the power of the car and honing in lap times.

And as for automatic motorcycles.... I-I can't even.

NOTE: Sorry for getting off topic


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

chevrasaki said:


> I would trade my 1LT 1.4 turbo for a 1.6 turbo diesel in a heartbeat if it came with a manual transmission. I'm not giving up my clutch, I REFUSE! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!


What makes you think GM won't provide an optional manual transmission with the next diesel?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> What makes you think GM won't provide an optional manual transmission with the next diesel?


Recent history.


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> What makes you think GM won't provide an optional manual transmission with the next diesel?


I looked first to see if there has been anything said about a manual 2017 diesel. Couldn't find anything. I know GM will offer a manual to every other country, but probably not here in America. If they did announce it, I would be the first to place an order!


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

To their point - the 1st gen CTD came with an auto because the vehicle was essentially testing the waters - no sense for them to bring over two transmissions when the majority of buyers would likely go for the automatic to begin with. 

I really do hope that with the success (vehicle-wise, not necessarily sales) of the 1st gen, that they do consider it. And also, consider offering it on multiple trim levels - while my wife and I would buy it that way anyway, not everyone wants to spend the extra coin for features they don't deem necessary or may even dislike (i.e. Leather).


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## ChevyGuy (Dec 13, 2014)

chevrasaki said:


> I would trade my 1LT 1.4 turbo for a 1.6 turbo diesel in a heartbeat if it came with a manual transmission. I'm not giving up my clutch, I REFUSE! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!


Paddle shiftier. :grin:


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'd go for a DCT as well...


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

chevrasaki said:


> I looked first to see if there has been anything said about a manual 2017 diesel. Couldn't find anything. I know GM will offer a manual to every other country, but probably not here in America. If they did announce it, I would be the first to place an order!


Have they announced that they _*won't*_ be offering a manual diesel in the US? Have they announced that it will *only *be offered in an automatic?


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## chevrasaki (May 1, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Have they announced that they _*won't*_ be offering a manual diesel in the US? Have they announced that it will *only *be offered in an automatic?


It's still quite uncertain. That is indeed why I left a shadow of doubt by using words like "probably". I sincerely hope my opinion is wrong to assume they will not offer a manual. I suppose I am basing my opinion off past decisions. I'd rather assume they won't and be pleasantly surprised than think they will and be severely disappointed. Can't wait to find out for sure!


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## MotleyCruze (Nov 17, 2013)

Here's a link to GM Authority from last week. By the way, I do like their daily updates.

2017 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel Hatchback Coming | GM Authority


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

MotleyCruze said:


> Here's a link to GM Authority from last week. By the way, I do like their daily updates.
> 
> 2017 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel Hatchback Coming | GM Authority


The way they went vague on that article, could that also mean a possible gas or diesel estate or coupe?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Given the choice, I am not sure which route I would go on a new diesel Cruze (manual or auto). I love to row my own gears, but I also like the Aisin.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

With the potential of sitting in traffic jams, I'd have a hard time deciding too if I were to purchase one for myself. I suppose it depends on the kind of automatic, and the fuel mileage penalty (if any).


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

If I upgraded to a Gen 2 diesel assuming the auto is like and or similar to Gen 1 auto, I will take the auto for sure. I got use to the manual in the ECO but honestly wasn't a big fan especially when in stop and go traffic, here in central Indiana there is a lot of road construction right now and can at peak times slow traffic to a crawl, the manual wasnt too much fun then. Altho the auto in CTD is a bit different than traditional auto, I really like it and have little to complain about. I would like to see them offer the manual tho, I think it broadens the appeal of the car to a wider audience and perhaps get some cross over converts from VW TDI to the CTD.


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## marbles67 (Feb 9, 2015)

How would the new cruze line up against a jetta tdi.hp torque ect?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

marbles67 said:


> How would the new cruze line up against a jetta tdi.hp torque ect?


You're assuming VW gets their TDIs street legal again. The Gen 1 diesel was actually a little quicker and faster than the 2014 VWs.


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## marbles67 (Feb 9, 2015)

Well I doubt that will happen, )


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## GlennGlenn (Nov 27, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> .i sport a TDI badge



why sport a TDI badge when you can get the Holden ones that look just like they belong on the car??? I would never associate my CTD with anything VW.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

Was there any new information about the 2017 CTD at the Lordstown meet? More curious than anything.


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## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

IndyDiesel said:


> Was there any new information about the 2017 CTD at the Lordstown meet? More curious than anything.


Only thing I heard that would be considered news is that it will be available in a manual transmission.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

I think a manual option would broaden the appeal but not what I would have an interest in. GM is not releasing much specific information yet which is fine. 2017 Models maybe available in 90 days or so.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

Would a 2 litre diesel gain 10% fuel economy in a lighter body? seems to me GM is trying to go about this with the wrong engine. I have a 2012 diesel engined Cruze with chain drive to the cams and feel that a weight reduction and an advanced tune would equal the economy of the 1.6 diesel claims. This only applies if the 10% gain is over the 2.0L, maybe he was comparing it to the previous 1.7L, which is a whole different story.


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## cumminsdieselfreak (Jan 26, 2015)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Only thing I heard that would be considered news is that it will be available in a manual transmission.


I think we could consider this breaking news! Now if we could only confirm a hatch option in addition to the manual diesel.


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## cumminsdieselfreak (Jan 26, 2015)

So i just had a chat with Chevrolet and they said the 2017 Cruze hatchback will only be offered in the 1.4 ecotec engine. A manual transmission will be an option for the LT trim. The trims include LT manual, LT automatic and Premier automatic. No MSRP is being given at this time.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> Only thing I heard that would be considered news is that it will be available in a manual transmission.


I thought it was interesting that depending on how you asked the question how the answer changed. What we got was a yep we'll be mating the diesel with the transmissions here from one person and from another that there was space for final check and assembly of manual transmissions for a 1.7L engine. This, my friends, is how intelligence gathering works.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

Aussie said:


> Would a 2 litre diesel gain 10% fuel economy in a lighter body? seems to me GM is trying to go about this with the wrong engine. I have a 2012 diesel engined Cruze with chain drive to the cams and feel that a weight reduction and an advanced tune would equal the economy of the 1.6 diesel claims. This only applies if the 10% gain is over the 2.0L, maybe he was comparing it to the previous 1.7L, which is a whole different story.



Think of it this way, does the reduction of 1 large passenger in your car give you that much gain in fuel economy. Not much, I'd argue. The approx 250 lb weight reduction coupled with the smaller diesel is enough to give some fuel mileage gains, but the magic will be in engine and not the weight loss. Tell me that the 2017 CTD is 1000 lbs less and now we're talking.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

"GM engineered the Cruze’s diesel engine at its Turin, Italy, powertrain engineering center. It is expected to develop 136-hp and 275 pounds-feet of torque."

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...m-will-take-aim-at-vw-with-diesel-chevy-cruze


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Good god - that's more torque than the 2.0L, if that is to be believed.


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## kmfinley93 (Oct 2, 2015)

I'm a believer that the 2.0 is too much engine for our cruze so the lower HP numbers may be perfect. 

I am curious to see A: if this is aluminum block/ how much the assembly will weigh. B: if they have fixed all of these ********* emissions issues and quirks. 


Personally, I think the 2.0 could be dropped in a Malibu or Impala with a slightly bigger Turbo and they would kick ass in the fuel economy game


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Tomko said:


> "GM engineered the Cruze’s diesel engine at its Turin, Italy, powertrain engineering center. It is expected to develop 136-hp and 275 pounds-feet of torque."
> 
> http://www.autonews.com/article/201...m-will-take-aim-at-vw-with-diesel-chevy-cruze


autonews.com is generally a very reliable source of information. 275 lb ft would be so much fun in a lighter car, given how fun the 280 lb ft the 2.0L has (with overboost) is.


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## Kalpazan (Dec 17, 2015)

A PHASE-2 tunned 2.0L engine will pull 195PS and 450NM quite easily.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

I am inclined to think that 275 f/lbs is a miss quote as I have seen figures of, and this is a quote about Opals new all aluminium engine in it's most powerful form. It replaces the previous 1.7 engine. 

The most powerful version of 1.6 CDTI engine delivering 136 PS (100 kW; 134 hp) at 3,500–4,000 rpm and 320 N·m (236 lbf·ft) at 2,000 rpm.


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

Maybe the 275 is with a crazy over boost function.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

money_man said:


> Maybe the 275 is with a crazy over boost function.


Either way those figures are pretty good for a 1.6TD. The series 1 diesel in the 2009-2011 Holden Cruze has the same torque figure and about 14 more HP. The series II engine in my car has 161HP and 266 f/lb torque.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

Aussie said:


> I am inclined to think that 275 f/lbs is a miss quote as I have seen figures of, and this is a quote about Opals new all aluminium engine in it's most powerful form. It replaces the previous 1.7 engine.
> 
> The most powerful version of 1.6 CDTI engine delivering 136 PS (100 kW; 134 hp) at 3,500–4,000 rpm and 320 N·m (236 lbf·ft) at 2,000 rpm.


I concur.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Mercedes Benz is able to squeeze 201HP and 369lb ft out of 2.1 Liters diesel. Purely mathematically, If you cut down the displacement to 1.6 liters, that would translate to about 153 HP and 281 lb ft. That's in a previous generation diesel. I think the numbers referenced in that article about the Cruze are very doable (136/275).


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

With the 2.0L, they made a little less torque in Europe than it ended up making here (with overboost). Perhaps 236 will be the regular figure, with a (admittedly large) jump up to 275 for the overboost feature?


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

Will be interesting to see what the real #s are once released. 

I hope GM sends out a mailer to all TDI owners or something like that. maybe one right now, saying it's coming, and then one when they have inventory on the lots.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Worthwhile sending to us current CTD owners, as well.

If it's as good as we expect it to be (and especially if it comes in a hatch), I might be inclined...


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## money_man (Feb 25, 2014)

However our current upside down car loans won't allow us to trade for a new ctd anytime soon.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

money_man said:


> However our current upside down car loans won't allow us to trade for a new ctd anytime soon.


Having been put in this position when I had to have a larger vehicle has taught me never to sell a car again when it isn't worth what I owe. I bought several good used cars until I was in a position to get my new CTD. It was really worth the wait.


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## Tomko (Jun 1, 2013)

money_man said:


> However our current upside down car loans won't allow us to trade for a new ctd anytime soon.


Dang, I forgot about that.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

I'd be buying it as a second CTD, for myself, so that wouldn't be too much of an issue.


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## DslGate (Jun 29, 2016)

After all the issues with my Gen 1, I am not so sure I'd spring for a Gen 2 . Frequent regens, CELs etc. have me wondering if I shouldn't go back to Toyota and just forget GM. 8 years combined in 3 Sienna's and not a single warranty related repair to any of them.


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## diesel (Jun 8, 2013)

it seems as if they collected a lot of data from us guinea pigs. Hopefully they use that as "lessons learned" to make an improved product that works well in a variety of driving conditions/ driving habits.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

diesel said:


> it seems as if they collected a lot of data from us guinea pigs. Hopefully they use that as "lessons learned" to make an improved product that works well in a variety of driving conditions/ driving habits.


And perhaps extend the coverage period for the emissions components.


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## Aussie (Sep 16, 2012)

MP81 said:


> And perhaps extend the coverage period for the emissions components.


The current diesel is an old engine altered for the US emissions, the new one is a state of the art alloy unit that already has 3 years of use in Europe, I would imagine that any problems it may have are purely US emission related.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Aussie said:


> The current diesel is an old engine altered for the US emissions, the new one is a state of the art alloy unit that already has 3 years of use in Europe, I would imagine that any problems it may have are purely US emission related.


They'll be using the same emissions systems with the new regs in Europe required after MY18.5, so it'll likely have to be more refined everywhere.


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