# Whats everyones mpg's?



## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

Hey guys! New to chevy and the cruze world, pretty familiar with diesels in general though. I've had a couple mechanical injection vw's and most recently rebuilt a vw 1.9l mechanical injection engine and swapped it into my samurai. This is my first computer controlled direct injection engine and I'm pretty happy with it so far. Its not the exact car I wanted (white, hatch, diesel with mt with brown leather) but its one of the 3 manual diesels available in the province. On Friday I grabbed a 2017 cruze diesel lt with the 6 speed manual. Its the silver ice metallic with black leather interior. Until about month ago I had no idea chevy had a diesel sedan and went with it over vw mainly because of the 0% financing and that vw doesn't have any new tdi's.

So far I love the car, the electronic throttle takes a bit of getting used to and the clutch has a bit of a different feel to it but the power and economy it makes are amazing for what it is. It has way more power and is way quieter then the old mechanical vw's. The one I just built for my samurai has a 4bt turbo and a performance injection pump and its probably making around the same power but its nowhere near as refined. Its loud and shakes like crazy. I'm not too impressed with the transmission, it rides alright but I feel the gearing (mainly 6th) is off and feel like the shift light is constantly blinking at me. I've got just under 1000km on it and I filled up for the first time the other day. I got 850km to 44l which puts it just under 5.2l/100km and means the dash display was right on with its estimate. 5.2l is about 45mpg which is pretty good as I had a decent mix of city and highway driving. I'm just curious what kind of mpg everyone is seeing per tank in the real world? I'm also curious how many km's it takes for the engine to break in and if there would be any noticeable economy increase at that point?

Anyways here's my cruze the first night I got it 







and here is a pic from the dealer








No real plans to modify it much. Maybe upgrade the headlights to HID's, get the dealer to install some fogs, and when the warranty runs out I'll delete all the emissions crap and throw a tune on it. Would love it if someone brings a plug in piggyback ecu to market that wouldn't effect the warranty!


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

Congrats and welcome!


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## Camcruse (Oct 4, 2011)

17 mpg.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

I'm averaging better than 55 MPG overall. I raised my best 25-mile average to 72.5 when the weather got cool earlier this month. Very happy with the fuel economy.


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## MilitantNarwhal (Sep 17, 2017)

Just got mine on Saturday. It's a '17 premier hatch RS. So far I'm averaging 31-32mpg, with 400ish miles on it. I have a 100 mile daily commute (round trip), almost all of which is highway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MadAmos (Apr 16, 2017)

1.4t 17 hatch 6 speed manual, my commute is 80 miles a day 4 days a week 800ft - 1600ft - sea level. 40 miles home is the reverse about 1/2 70 MPH freeway the rest 2 lane 50 MPH


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

Camcruse said:


> 17 mpg.


Yeah, but that's in your Brand New Jeep


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## wasney (Mar 3, 2015)

I am around 17-18 mpg in my 2013 Cruze. That Corn life. E85 kills your gas mileage, but I also pay less than $2/Gallon typically.


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

That's crazy John. No way mine can get anywhere near that right now unless its on perfectly flat ground. Im 7/8 through my 2nd tank but it seems my mileage has really taken a dump in the last 100km or so. Went from 5.2l/100km to 6l/100km average with not much change in driving style or conditions. How many miles are on your car?


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## BU54 (Nov 24, 2014)

My 2013 gasoline cruze that I bought new has +/- 21k on it now with a lifetime average of 37.7mpg so far. I might add this is mostly a highway driven car so to speak and I don't have a lead foot.


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## 14'ecocruze (Nov 18, 2016)

14 eco 6spd manual 1.4t averaging 50+mpg on my normal commute. Freeway driving at 70 mph comes in at about 45mpg(with ac on wife in car). I never take freeway if I don't have to. Best tank 59.1. Worst 37.8 I think( several snow storms) goal is to break 60 mpg.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

RunninWild said:


> That's crazy John. No way mine can get anywhere near that right now unless its on perfectly flat ground. Im 7/8 through my 2nd tank but it seems my mileage has really taken a dump in the last 100km or so. Went from 5.2l/100km to 6l/100km average with not much change in driving style or conditions. How many miles are on your car?


I have 16,000 miles on mine now. My commute is about 52 miles each way and mostly follows a river, so it's relatively the same altitude, but I do have to summit a good-sized hill on both ends. Speed limits are 55-60 MPH for the majority of the trip, which helps. I almost always see 60-something on my 25-mile average each way during my commute.

I think I could average 70MPG on a whole tank if I had enough flat ground. I'm hoping to see 800 miles on a single tank at some point. My last 60+ MPG tank was teasing 800 miles (trip odometer + range to empty) the whole way, but circumstances didn't align to let me test it.


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## IndyDiesel (May 24, 2015)

My lifetime average is 43.9 over 40300 miles. This past six months have been 1/2 of those miles and I average about 46 mpg. I don't drive like grandma hardly ever, normal on freeway is at least 75. So far couldn't really be happier with the car and its efficiency. Ready for diesel prices to moderate but may not happen for awhile.


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

Did it take a while for your engine to brake in before reaching those numbers? My mileage isn't bad by any means but its not really close to what you guys are getting. Sure with cruze control on flat ground I can get them but there's no way I can average that for an entire tank yet. I doubt I'm going to even hit 800km (500 miles) this tank, 800 miles just sounds impossible. Definitely have more stop and go traffic and more spirited driving this tank vs my first but its going to be interesting to see if it gets much better.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

RunninWild said:


> Did it take a while for your engine to brake in before reaching those numbers? My mileage isn't bad by any means but its not really close to what you guys are getting. Sure with cruze control on flat ground I can get them but there's no way I can average that for an entire tank yet. I doubt I'm going to even hit 800km (500 miles) this tank, 800 miles just sounds impossible. Definitely have more stop and go traffic and more spirited driving this tank vs my first but its going to be interesting to see if it gets much better.


Mine was good from the start. I think fuel economy is improving as the engine breaks in more, but my first 60MPG tank was at 4000 miles and I've never had a tank lower than 52MPG, which is the EPA highway estimate.

My driving style varies a lot. Some tanks I intentionally drive for economy, but after driving so conscientiously and carefully for a whole week and 700 miles, it gets old and I just set the cruise or do some more spirited driving. The cool thing is that even when pushing for a high mileage number, it's pretty forgiving of a few heavy-footed moments.

One thing I have noticed this month is that it really likes temperatures in the 50s and 60s. I got to 60MPG on my 50-mile average this morning and wasn't even trying. It's in the low 60s this morning.


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

Yeah that's insane. Do you do mostly highway driving on flat land? Just filled my 2nd tank only got 734km and the dash showed 40mpg. The app I use to track fuel shows it as 37.5mpg but part of that reading is I don't think I fully filled it the first time. Didn't really think about how much diesel foams up when filling. This time I started squeezing the handle really slowly for the last few litres. Is yours manual or automatic? Mines manual and I struggle to hit the shift light as it seems like it's too little rpm for the engine especially if there is any hills involved. The light comes on at like 1700rpm.


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## Rancid (Sep 16, 2017)

my 2015 1.4l 6 speed 1LT from just over 1000 miles trip is at 36.8MPG, put a k&n intake kit on around 300-500 miles ago and it seems to just keep going up as long as im not using the lead foot

how are these guys getting 50+ MPG??? 

advanced eco tune?

my car is bone stock except for the k&n

EDIT: Whoops clicked on this from one of the main pages didnt notice till now this was in the diesel subsection LOL


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

RunninWild said:


> Yeah that's insane. Do you do mostly highway driving on flat land? Just filled my 2nd tank only got 734km and the dash showed 40mpg. The app I use to track fuel shows it as 37.5mpg but part of that reading is I don't think I fully filled it the first time. Didn't really think about how much diesel foams up when filling. This time I started squeezing the handle really slowly for the last few litres. Is yours manual or automatic? Mines manual and I struggle to hit the shift light as it seems like it's too little rpm for the engine especially if there is any hills involved. The light comes on at like 1700rpm.


Most of my commute is 55-60 MPH on rural highway. Because of where I live, that's most of my driving no matter where I go. It's mostly gently rolling terrain, but there are two or three grades that are uphill for a mile or more.

My experience with the fuel computer is that it's _pessimistic. _My calculated MPG is usually higher by anything from a little to a lot.

I do take time to fill it to the top of the neck. Part of my reason for going with this diesel is that I only have to fill it once a week to drive the 600-700 miles I cover ever week. I'm OK standing at the pump an extra 3 or 4 minutes to get it good and full.

If I follow the shift indicator, it drops my RPMs to around 1500. I don't pay much attention to the shift indicator, but I've noted that the computer doesn't think it's lugging the engine too much at 1200-1500 RPM. It _is_ a diesel.


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

Yeah I try and ignore it but for some reason whenever it pops up and I catch it out of the bottom of my eye I have a thought "oh crap better shift!". I just find it funny they made all the gears so small. 5th should be as big as 6th and 6th should be like 1500 or 1600rpm at 60mph. Cruzing on the highway at 60 already puts you above the computers shift point.

Must be the fact you're driving all highway. I do roughly 70% highway driving but some of that is in high traffic. I guess my mileage is in line with epa esitmates.


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## 14'ecocruze (Nov 18, 2016)

Rancid said:


> my 2015 1.4l 6 speed 1LT from just over 1000 miles trip is at 36.8MPG, put a k&n intake kit on around 300-500 miles ago and it seems to just keep going up as long as im not using the lead foot
> 
> how are these guys getting 50+ MPG???
> 
> ...


I did the same thing due to the fact that several other gassers already chimed in. I'm 50+ without a tune anyways. Just stay off the freeway. Rural highways(55mph) are how I manage 50s that and using torque app. I keep it out of boost and under 75% load. Seems to work well since I lost somewhere between 3-5 mpg going with non LRR replacement tires. 50$ used set of tires 3/4 tread can't go wrong.


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

2017 Sedan auto, 5000 miles. I get low 30s in town which is mainly where I drive. My only highway only tank was on the way home from the dealer, average 55mpg over around 70 miles.


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## NoDanaOnlyZool (Jun 29, 2017)

I've had my 2017 CTD Manual for almost three months and I'll reach 12K miles this week. My overall average so far is 52.4 MPG (hand calculated with love). As others have mentioned, my DIC reads low on average by 5% (i.e., when it says 50.0 MPG, I'm actually getting 52.5 MPG). This does not bother me in the least. My best tankful so far has been 57.27 MPG. Most of my driving is freeway, so that makes sense, though my worst tankful was 47.00 MPG (the second fill-up from new), and again, this does not bother me in the least.

This week, I'll likely get another DEF fill, as I'm at 19% remaining on the Diesel Exhaust Fluid Level readout in the DIC (Driver Info Center, for those averse to acronyms), and about 200 miles ago, the car said I have 1000 miles before a DEF refill is needed. I'm driving about 600 miles tomorrow, so I may try filling DEF "at the pump" at a truck stop on the way to Nebraska from St. Louis, MO. This will be my third DEF fill. I'm keeping a ridiculously geeky and detailed spreadsheet for Fuel and DEF fills and costs. Because I can, I guess! 

I still love the car, and the dash rattle has abated somewhat, so even that's getting better with age. I hope that the MPG do as well!


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## Reuber (Sep 25, 2017)

New to the site, but I Just got my 2017 diesel (kinetic blue) 2 days ago, flew out to Alabama and drive it back to kansas. Topped it off in Huntsville, Alabama, and then drove an average of 70 mph. And kept driving. 530 miles later, I couldnt sit any more, and stopped to fill it. Average? 62 mpg. Used a few mileage tricks I figured out in the latter parts of the drive, and after another 250 miles or so, averaged 68. All said and done, I made it from Alabama to western Kansas on 15 gallons of fuel. My computer seems a bit pessimistic as well, as it was always lower than the measured values.


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## dylan1303 (Aug 5, 2017)

dash says 35.1, 26 mile round trip to work. 18 of the 26 is highway.

EDIT: oops my bad i have a gen 1 and not a diesel


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

14'ecocruze said:


> Rancid said:
> 
> 
> > my 2015 1.4l 6 speed 1LT from just over 1000 miles trip is at 36.8MPG, put a k&n intake kit on around 300-500 miles ago and it seems to just keep going up as long as im not using the lead foot
> ...


Make sure you run it a bit hard every once and a while. Keeping the turbo out of boost all the time will eventually cause the vanes to seize.


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

Just reset the trip meter on my way home from work. Averaged 4l/100k or 59mpg for 36.5km. Would have been closer to 63.5mpg but there was a few decent sized hills especially off the highway to my house. Looks like my mileage is right on its just traffic I guess.


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## jrb3 (May 17, 2017)

22 fill ups so far, 52.16 MPG


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## jpeloke (May 26, 2011)

Just returned from a 4556 mile trip and averaged 52.9 mpg. Not bad for an automatic. So far I am thrilled with the 2017 Cruze Diesel Automatic.


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Lifetime average 37 over 6400 miles. Probably 80/20 city/highway.


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## Bwb1179 (Sep 2, 2017)

In my '13 Cruze LT Im averaging about 30mpg!


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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

For cruze diesel, looks like we need to subtract about "2" from every reported mpg, in order to account for the mpg of the DEF. Otherwise it is not a fair comparison against the gassers, if we omit the DEF fuel that is very required in the diesel!


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

Nah def is only required if you have warranty and emissions testing . Mine will be removed with the warranty along with the EGR and the stock tune


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## DrKlahn (Feb 10, 2014)

eli said:


> For cruze diesel, looks like we need to subtract about "2" from every reported mpg, in order to account for the mpg of the DEF. Otherwise it is not a fair comparison against the gassers, if we omit the DEF fuel that is very required in the diesel!


That seems a bit over the top. In 4 years/60,000 miles of ownership of my Gen1 Diesel I bought 2 jugs of DEF for it from the local farm supply store. Total cost for both was maybe $20. I probably spent about that on Powersave anti-gel additive for the cold months over that same time period. Unless the Gen2 has a much higher DEF consumption rate, it's probably a few cents per tank at most.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

eli said:


> For cruze diesel, looks like we need to subtract about "2" from every reported mpg, in order to account for the mpg of the DEF. Otherwise it is not a fair comparison against the gassers, if we omit the DEF fuel that is very required in the diesel!


def jug is good for 7500 miles, def jug costs <$20

so .25 cents a mile

assume 2.70 gallon
assume 38 mpg

so 7 cents a mile for diesel cost and 7.25 cents for fuel/def per mile

its so incredibly minor a cost.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

DrKlahn said:


> That seems a bit over the top. In 4 years/60,000 miles of ownership of my Gen1 Diesel I bought 2 jugs of DEF for it from the local farm supply store. Total cost for both was maybe $20. I probably spent about that on Powersave anti-gel additive for the cold months over that same time period. Unless the Gen2 has a much higher DEF consumption rate, it's probably a few cents per tank at most.


are u including the free fillups from your free oil changes?


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## DrKlahn (Feb 10, 2014)

Honestly I can't recall if the free changes included DEF. They probably did as I didn't buy any until year 2 of ownership. I know they didn't fill it with the paid changes. Also I did have the DEF pump fixed under warranty and they had to refill it then. So that probably added some range. I paid < $10 for the DEF on sale at Mills Fleet Farm. It was a box with a pull out spout. Seems like I got way more than 7500 miles out of a container. I only bought two in the time I owned it. My driving is 99% highway, but I don't know if DEF consumption is fixed or varies with driving style. I never paid attention to it unless the DIC was complaining about needing more.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

DrKlahn said:


> Honestly I can't recall if the free changes included DEF. They probably did as I didn't buy any until year 2 of ownership. I know they didn't fill it with the paid changes. Also I did have the DEF pump fixed under warranty and they had to refill it then. So that probably added some range. I paid < $10 for the DEF on sale at Mills Fleet Farm. It was a box with a pull out spout. Seems like I got way more than 7500 miles out of a container. I only bought two in the time I owned it. My driving is 99% highway, but I don't know if DEF consumption is fixed or varies with driving style. I never paid attention to it unless the DIC was complaining about needing more.


def was offered free with the 4 oil changes in usa

def was not offered in with the 4 oil changes in canada.

def consumption is 100% tied to mpg, driving style and outside temperature.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

eli said:


> For cruze diesel, looks like we need to subtract about "2" from every reported mpg, in order to account for the mpg of the DEF. Otherwise it is not a fair comparison against the gassers, if we omit the DEF fuel that is very required in the diesel!


I’ve read and re-read this statement, not understanding at all...please clarify.

What does DEF have to do with MPG reporting? Why “subtract about “2” from every reported mpg”?


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## DrKlahn (Feb 10, 2014)

I took that to mean to compensate for the cost of the DEF.

Boraz thank you for the information. I honestly had never done any research on how DEF is consumed. Honestly I never gave much thought to the cost because it was cheap and rarely needed it.


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## blackbird (Nov 6, 2017)

eli said:


> For cruze diesel, looks like we need to subtract about "2" from every reported mpg, in order to account for the mpg of the DEF. Otherwise it is not a fair comparison against the gassers, if we omit the DEF fuel that is very required in the diesel!


Calling diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) a "fuel" isn't quite as accurate as referring to it as an expendable or consumption item. Yes, it does slightly increase the cost per mile driven in consumables but not much. If you really wanted to see the difference in operating costs per mile driven, you'd also want to consider differences in depreciation, insurance costs, etc. between a gas and diesel Cruze along with the consumables to get a true cost of ownership.

While it would be a touch less expensive if you didn't have to top off DEF once or twice an oil change, by using it GM was able to meet the emission requirements needed to sell this car. Without DEF there would be no North American diesel Cruze. It runs clean and still gets great mileage so I'll live with it.





boraz said:


> def jug is good for 7500 miles, def jug costs <$20
> 
> so .25 cents a mile
> 
> ...


Calculating 7500 miles for $20 in DEF would be $0.0027 of DEF used per mile, so even more incredibly less.


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## lbkNhubert (May 18, 2017)

Nit: .25 cents/mile is approximately .0027 dollars/mile
.0027 dollars/mile * 100 cents/dollar = 0.27 cents/mile


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

blackbird said:


> Calling diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) a "fuel" isn't quite as accurate as referring to it as an expendable or consumption item. Yes, it does slightly increase the cost per mile driven in consumables but not much. If you really wanted to see the difference in operating costs per mile driven, you'd also want to consider differences in depreciation, insurance costs, etc. between a gas and diesel Cruze along with the consumables to get a true cost of ownership.
> 
> While it would be a touch less expensive if you didn't have to top off DEF once or twice an oil change, by using it GM was able to meet the emission requirements needed to sell this car. Without DEF there would be no North American diesel Cruze. It runs clean and still gets great mileage so I'll live with it.
> 
> ...


my post says .25 CENTS per mile

if you wanna express it as dollars, yeah, .0025 DOLLARS per mile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShv_74FNWU


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

lbkNhubert said:


> Nit: .25 cents/mile is approximately .0027 dollars/mile
> .0027 dollars/mile * 100 cents/dollar = 0.27 cents/mile


yeah i was rounding, cuz def usage varies, as does the price of the def


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## lbkNhubert (May 18, 2017)

Right - I was pointing out what you just noted in your post above - that 0.0025 dollars per mile is the same as 0.25 cents per mile


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

blackbird said:


> Calculating 7500 miles for $20 in DEF would be $0.0027 of DEF used per mile, so even more incredibly less.


My DEF cost (calculated it on another thread) is less than $0.002/mile. I agree that it's a very minor cost.


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

My mistake...thought this thread was about MPG, not CPM.

If we’re talking CPM gas vs diesel, yeah there’s the ‘whopping’ additional cost of the DEF. I’ve spent a total of $15 (US) on DEF for 15,000 miles so that’s a grand total of 1/10th of a cent per mile added to the cost of fuel.


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## blackbird (Nov 6, 2017)

boraz said:


> my post says .25 CENTS per mile


My apologies, I was reading it as .25 dollars or twenty-five cents.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

blackbird said:


> My apologies, I was reading it as .25 dollars or twenty-five cents.


no worries, most of the time stuff is expressed in dollars, so its normal to sorta read it and miss the units


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## dlmetzger63 (Sep 28, 2017)

Blackbird: I see you have the 2018 Cruze HB diesel (6-sp) in your signature. What are you getting for mileage?


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## BayouCruze (Nov 10, 2017)

Just picked up a 2017 LT auto and I'm getting around 37 but can get 45 with a light foot.


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## rfhbrando (Oct 31, 2017)

Have had my 2017 Manual for 2 months, put 6200 miles on it, and have gotten pretty much exactly 51mpg average on every tank. I did just get a check engine indicator a week ago which was diagnosed as a bad particulate matter sensor, waiting on a replacement part. Mileage has dropped a bit but I don't know if those are related or not, or if fuel quality is going down as winter approaches in the northeast here.


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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks folks for confirming my rough calculations that including DEF in mpg or dollars per mile arithmetic reduces the result by a percent or a few percent. So we should always reduce the calculated diesel mpg by an entire mpg or two to account for the DEF consumption in our cars. We can define a new ratio relating diesel consumption with DEF consumption as the DEF-consumption-constant - it might be different for each vehicle/engine/driving-condition, and it seems to be between 1% and 5% range. 
We'll need a name and a Greek letter for this new constant. 

DEF needs to be refilled and it gets burned up in order to make the car go more than 4 mph. 
Please tell me again why DEF is not fuel and/or pony up and refill my cars DEF whenever it needs it? It's really a minor cost, not a big deal, it shouldn't be a problem for the hordes of DEF-is-not-a-fuel people to refill it on my car when necessary, you can each take a day of the week to check/refill my cars DEF as necessary. Thanks in advance !


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

eli said:


> Thanks folks for confirming my rough calculations that including DEF in mpg or dollars per mile arithmetic reduces the result by a percent or a few percent. So we should always reduce the calculated diesel mpg by an entire mpg or two to account for the DEF consumption in our cars. We can define a new ratio relating diesel consumption with DEF consumption as the DEF-consumption-constant - it might be different for each vehicle/engine/driving-condition, and it seems to be between 1% and 5% range.
> We'll need a name and a Greek letter for this new constant.
> 
> DEF needs to be refilled and it gets burned up in order to make the car go more than 4 mph.
> Please tell me again why DEF is not fuel and/or pony up and refill my cars DEF whenever it needs it? It's really a minor cost, not a big deal, it shouldn't be a problem for the hordes of DEF-is-not-a-fuel people to refill it on my car when necessary, you can each take a day of the week to check/refill my cars DEF as necessary. Thanks in advance !


Please explain how DEF gives diesels a miles per gallon advantage over gas engines.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

eli said:


> We'll need a name and a Greek letter for this new constant.


 :biglaugha:



eli said:


> DEF needs to be refilled and it gets burned up in order to make the car go more than 4 mph.
> Please tell me again why DEF is not fuel and/or pony up and refill my cars DEF whenever it needs it? It's really a minor cost, not a big deal, it shouldn't be a problem for the hordes of DEF-is-not-a-fuel people to refill it on my car when necessary, you can each take a day of the week to check/refill my cars DEF as necessary. Thanks in advance !




DEF is not a fuel. DEF does not get burned. DEF is a consumable, but not a combustible. If you think it is a fuel, pour some in a bowl and throw matches at it until you can get it to burn or can admit it's not a fuel.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Rivergoer said:


> Please explain how DEF gives diesels a miles per gallon advantage over gas engines.


Jet propulsion when it's converted to gaseous form and blown out the tailpipe?


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## HondaTech2016 (Apr 20, 2017)

Drove over 130 miles for work yesterday, highway and interstate 55-70 mph. Averaged 53mpg on a fresh tank, going to see what I get average over this whole trip. Heading back home Friday.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

johnmo said:


> :biglaugha:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i guess you dont consider diesel a fuel either, it meets your bowl and matches criteria for not being a fuel


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

boraz said:


> i guess you dont consider diesel a fuel either, it meets your bowl and matches criteria for not being a fuel


Fine. Fill your fuel tank with DEF and see how far you get.


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## RunninWild (Sep 14, 2017)

def can be removed, taking diesel out of the equation and the car wont run. Sure its a consumable and added cost over a gasoline vehicle but it has nothing to do with the diesels mpg which is what we were discussing. This isn't a gas vs diesel cost comparison thread. If you want to make it that way then diesel is on average 10-20 cents a liter cheaper then gas in my area. That savings alone easily pays for def and then some. You wouldn't subtract mpg's from a gas cars average because of increased fuel costs would you? the 5-10% added cost of fuel is far more substantial then the fraction of a percent of def consumption.


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## boraz (Aug 29, 2013)

johnmo said:


> Fine. Fill your fuel tank with DEF and see how far you get.


quote me where i said def is a fuel


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

boraz said:


> quote me where i said def is a fuel


For someone who probably agrees with me, you're being a mite difficult.


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## nireyn21 (Sep 6, 2017)

Took a road trip to California and back over I-40 from Texas. Averaged exactly 52 MPG over the entire journey, ranging from elevations of 0 to 7200+ feet. Locked cruise at 76 for much of the way and it never downshifted, not once. Such a pleasure to drive over long distances. ~1 tank of DEF for 2600 miles.


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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

Rivergoer, to answer your question about "how DEF gives diesel an mpg advantage over gas engines" . Your question contains an implicit falsehood so there can be no answer. 
In fact, the mpg advantage of diesel pre-existed DEF. 

But today, DEF gives new diesels a chance to exist legally on USA roads, and thus to demonstrate their improved mpg over gasoline equivalents. Without DEF & related technology there are no new diesels on USA roads.


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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

DEF is required to keep my vehicle motoring on the highway, so i'm accounting for its cost as part of tracking my mpg. it's a small cost. but it's factual and obvious so it may as well be included. 

this past weekend, 60 mpg on the 120 miles to portland maine, driving slower than usual on the highway. 65 to 70 rather than 75-80. Not counting DEF! subtract a couple mpg to account for the DEF gallons & cost. 
So on the way to Portland I got a lousy 58 mpg if I include both DEF & diesel consumption, rather than the full 60 mpg by counting the diesel fuel alone. Argh!  

52 to 55 on the way back due to running AC/defog/wipers and slightly higher speeds.


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## johnmo (Mar 2, 2017)

eli said:


> DEF is required to keep my vehicle motoring on the highway, so i'm accounting for its cost as part of tracking my mpg. it's a small cost. but it's factual and obvious so it may as well be included.


Tires, filters, engine oil, brake fluid, radiator fluid, transmission fluid, blinker fluid, etc. are all also required to keep your vehicle motoring on the highway. What's factors should we apply to our MPG calculation for all of those items?


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## 91794 (Mar 25, 2015)

johnmo said:


> Tires, filters, engine oil, brake fluid, radiator fluid, transmission fluid, blinker fluid, etc. are all also required to keep your vehicle motoring on the highway. What's factors should we apply to our MPG calculation for all of those items?


A chacun son gout. Muffler bearings used to be a joke too but now some mufflers have actual moving parts (solenoids?) if not bearings.

Sounds like you are talking about total cost of ownership with all that stuff above. TCO. Good to know and is not a mystery. 

I’m talking about gallons of go juice. DEF & diesel. Two fuel tanks are refueled via the fillers inside the fuel door of the car - take a look and you’ll see them too. Don’t put brake fluid in there and don’t liquefy a tire and pour it in there!

There are two fuel tanks inside fuel door, so there are two mpg numbers which can be considered individually or with have their ratios weighted and combined. Do whichever arithmetic you prefer. I’ll stick with the rough estimate of subtracting a couple mpg from the diesel mpg in order to see the total mpg. 

Ps - its cool that the manual says that burning diesel #1 during cold weather is supported!


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## Rivergoer (Mar 30, 2017)

eli said:


> Rivergoer, to answer your question about "how DEF gives diesel an mpg advantage over gas engines" . Your question contains an implicit falsehood so there can be no answer.
> In fact, the mpg advantage of diesel pre-existed DEF.
> 
> But today, DEF gives new diesels a chance to exist legally on USA roads, and thus to demonstrate their improved mpg over gasoline equivalents. Without DEF & related technology there are no new diesels on USA roads.


Alrighty then.


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## Newbiecruzer (Nov 11, 2017)

This is a '17 manual 6 speed - driven 90% 2 lane rural S. Michigan and driving for mileage. This is the average of 10 tanks since new - 53.08mpg - 5650 miles. 
Lowest tank 48.05 mpg - highest tank 58.82 mpg. I'm pretty happy with that.


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