# Adding 10" sub --- what is the best??



## albow77 (Feb 18, 2012)

I am going to add a little thump the the cruze. I am asking what is the best single 10" sub and amp combo in a sealed box. I was thinking a Polk MM1040dvc driven with a Kicker IX500.1 or a ZX500.1 amp. I listen to rock. Want do you think???


----------



## coinneach (Apr 10, 2012)

To start, I think you'd be best served by reading this thread. Tons of great info there.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

albow77 said:


> I am going to add a little thump the the cruze. I am asking what is the best single 10" sub and amp combo in a sealed box. I was thinking a Polk MM1040dvc driven with a Kicker IX500.1 or a ZX500.1 amp. I listen to rock. Want do you think???


Polk doesn't make particularly great car subs. That said, it depends on your budget. 

Pre-fabricated boxes are junk, pure and simple. I wouldn't recommend one. 

See the first link in my thread; I design boxes (for free) and if you don't want to build your own, I can build them to the specifications of your listening preferences, space requirements, and the specific sub you're using for a heck of a lot cheaper than any shop will charge you for a *custom *box. For a 10" box, you're looking at $160, but I can work with you on that if the box doesn't need to be very big. That depends on the sub. 

Anyways, regardless of what box you use, let me know what your listening preferences are and what your budget is. Kicker makes good, solid amps, but they're often overpriced for the amount of power they deliver.


----------



## jakkaroo (Feb 12, 2011)

just go jl and youll be happy


----------



## osiris10012 (Feb 4, 2011)

i have an re audio seX 10" in a ported box with a hifonics brutus 1200.1 amp on it and am very satisfied with the outcome. I was very impressed with this sub. I would recommend this combo to anyone, but its all up to you.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

osiris10012 said:


> i have an re audio seX 10" in a ported box with a hifonics brutus 1200.1 amp on it and am very satisfied with the outcome. I was very impressed with this sub. I would recommend this combo to anyone, but its all up to you.


Good sub (though not very efficient), and good amp. Hifonics amps of the past weren't that great, but their models of more recent years have been CEA-2006 certified, which has allowed me to confidently recommend them to anyone looking for some cheap but reliable power. I would use one over a kicker for a sub amp any day.


----------



## amalmer71 (Apr 5, 2012)

How much money do you have to spend? Do you want it to sound loud or do you want it to be loud?

For sound quality, Alpine has always fit the bill for me. Although I don't have any direct experience with the Type-R series. Those, too me, are "look at me" subs, and that's never been my game.

Another brand, which I tend to fall back on religiously is Rockford Fosgate, both amplifiers and subs. I've never ran across a Fosgate amp I wanted to sell (I currently own 5 some as old as the early 90's ) and never ran across a Fosgate sub I was able to blow.

Not trying to take any business from anyone here, but prefabbed boxes are fine, if you know what to look for. Usually, if you buy a sub/box combo designed and built by a reputable manufacture they're fine. 

Some generic ones are made of pressboard, some quality ones are made using MDF. Some aren't designed for any specific sub in mind, except the general accepted sizes for the average 10", 12", etc. Some are designed specifically for a certain sub. It just all depends.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy this sub/box combo.
MTX TR5512a (tr5512a) 12" 800 Watt Vented Enclosure

MTX Audio TR55 Enclosures

This one, though... They can keep it.
Lanzar VCHB210 2000W Max, Dual 10" Vector Loaded Subwoofer Enclosure

As far as amps, for the MTX sub above, this would fit the bill and allow for expansion and upgrades to more subs later on. Bang for the buck, it's a great deal.
Rockford Fosgate R500-1 (r5001) 500W Max, PRIME Series Monoblock


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

amalmer71 said:


> How much money do you have to spend? Do you want it to sound loud or do you want it to be loud?
> 
> For sound quality, Alpine has always fit the bill for me. Although I don't have any direct experience with the Type-R series. Those, too me, are "look at me" subs, and that's never been my game.
> 
> ...


The Alpine Type-R subs are "general purpose" subs for the most part, except for the 8". The 8" version has a very strong motor to moving mass ratio which makes it a very clean, tight sounding sub, (which the 10" and 12" are not) that works brilliantly in small boxes. It's a completely different animal from it's larger brothers. You'll see that I don't recommend the 10" or 12" anywhere near as often as I recommend the 8". There really isn't anything out there like it for even twice the price. 

Prefabbed sub boxes are junk, plain and simple. I have seen extremely few exceptions to that statement. When it comes to sub boxes, you get what you pay for. The first dead giveaway that a box is pure junk is when you see caulk on the seams. 

I've seen 3/4" MDF dual-12" sub boxes sell for $80 shipped. That's $80 shipped to your door, carpeted. I can't build a dual 12" sub box for less than $60 in materials alone (if even that cheap), nevermind the shipping, time, or shop expenses. That MTX box a vented box, which is probably tuned in the 40s and will sound boomy, uncontrolled, and will blend terribly with the rest of the car. If you want to make a lot of "boom" and "thump," so you can get your fix for SPL and have something to abuse, that sub is fine. If you want to hear your bass notes and have some decent transient response, look elsewhere. It is very, very rare that I find a prefabbed ported box that is tuned to a relatively low frequency for sound quality, and it is very rare that I find a sealed prefabbed box that doens't fall apart in a few years or start leaking like crazy. 

In all honesty, I'd much, much rather teach someone to build their own proper box than to sell them one, and I do design them with complex modeling and simulation software for free. I just make my service available to build them for people at a price that experienced enthusiasts would call a steal (for a custom box built specifically for a given sub) if they don't have the means or time to build it themselves. 

That Rockford Fosgate amp is great. Solid power, CEA certified, very clean look, and very likely underrated. Not at all a fan of their subs though. Actually, I'm not a fan of any sub you can buy at Best Buy and slap into a prefabbed box. The car audio world is much, much bigger than names like Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, Alpine, Polk Audio, Sony (shudders), Kenwood, etc.


----------



## kylevh21 (Mar 3, 2012)

If u want some thump for cheap and low power look at powerbass product or even q-power


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

kylevh21 said:


> If u want some thump for cheap and low power look at powerbass product or even q-power


I always have a bad taste in my mouth when I hear the word "powerbass" for the crap they put Eric and Matt (Image Dynamics owner and lead engineer) through. Muscled them out of the very company they started and put years of their life into.


----------



## albow77 (Feb 18, 2012)

I guess I am looking for a speaker that has some punch and will not break the bank. Money is no object but I choose not to go overboard with it. A few years ago I had a rockford DVC 10" and it was OK but after 3 years of abuse from a Kicker Kx-400.1 it had seen its match. I gave the amp and box to my brother and the amp is still going strong. That is why I wouldlike to stick with kicker for the amp. The speaker is what I have the big question on. What is going to sound good and not blow after a few years. I have heard an 8" polk dxi in the vented prefab box at bestbuy and that rocked for its size. Was better than some of the 10s and 12s. I am still going to buy what I think will sound the best for hark rock - classic rock. that is what I listen to most of the time. I have tried most brands but I have been out of the loop for the last 10 years that I have no clue anymore. I will spend about $200+/- for the sub and build the box myself.


----------



## Gdubs (Apr 23, 2011)

I loved my Alpine Type R sub. It was an awesome sub. very tight,crisp and clean bass. Ive owned everything from Bazooka, Audiobahn (also i thought was good), MTX, Polk, Kicker.

My fav was the Alpine though


----------



## DMac1988 (Oct 3, 2011)

I havent seen anyone try soundstream before. I have a 12" soundstrem with a 1200w sony xplod. And they ran deadly. Just warned i cant install subs in my cruze. Cuz it can blow the airbags if not installed slowly n saftely. But soundstream is crazy subs. Waayyyy better then pioneer, rock, sony, alpine. Trust me. Search soundstream subs on youtube. Or even their site for more info. Pls comes with a wicked giant spider decal for your window. I was proud of my sub. I toned it so it didnt rattle the trunk but rattled you glass of water inside your house. No joke. My boss even said he can hear me coming to work in the morning. Hahahahha


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

albow77 said:


> I guess I am looking for a speaker that has some punch and will not break the bank. Money is no object but I choose not to go overboard with it. A few years ago I had a rockford DVC 10" and it was OK but after 3 years of abuse from a Kicker Kx-400.1 it had seen its match. I gave the amp and box to my brother and the amp is still going strong. That is why I wouldlike to stick with kicker for the amp. The speaker is what I have the big question on. What is going to sound good and not blow after a few years. I have heard an 8" polk dxi in the vented prefab box at bestbuy and that rocked for its size. Was better than some of the 10s and 12s. I am still going to buy what I think will sound the best for hark rock - classic rock. that is what I listen to most of the time. I have tried most brands but I have been out of the loop for the last 10 years that I have no clue anymore. I will spend about $200+/- for the sub and build the box myself.


Sticking with Kicker for the amp is fine. I honestly have nothing against them aside for the price. Like many retail big-box names, you will pay a bit more to have the name. If you feel more comfortable with them, you'll still get a great product. 

What's going to sound good and not blow? Something that's made with high quality, and something that you can use for its intended purpose. I have an idea of what kind of music you listen to, but now loud you like to listen to it. Let me explain...

The problem I have with most big box retail subs is that they're made to be abused. The idea is that you get some kids who don't know anything, buy whatever's on sale from Best Buy, slap it in a prefabbed box with an amp they got recommended by a best buy "technician," and expect to last. They're overbuilt because they know the people buying them are going to abuse them and they'll have to deal with a thousand warranty claims. The disadvantage here is that these are not SQ subs; they're weak SPL subs. High moving mass, heavy voice coils that can take thermal abuse. 

You want classic rock. Classic rock won't hit anywhere below 40hz except for some kick drum harmonics. Kick drums will however play up to 100hz with harmonics 125hz, so you'll want a sub that is capable of playing that high cleanly. Unlike a variety of synthetic bass that plays down to the low 30hz range, you're going to want something linear from at least 40 to 100hz, and you need it to play those frequencies cleanly. That means you need a low moving mass, decent excursion, and a strong motor, and a sealed box or a very low tuned ported box if you have a sub that works best in ported boxes. What you're looking for here is transient response; a sub's ability to be "quick." Take two subs that are identical in motor strength, put a lower moving mass cone on one and a higher moving mass (and higher power handling) cone on the other, and the one with the lower moving mass will not only be more sensitive, but will also be significantly cleaner, tighter, and more accurate. 

Here's a writeup I made on why you don't want a prefabbed ported box:
Why sub boxes are important

Some subs do very well in ported boxes, and you can tune them low and get a great, flat frequency response, keeping group delay well within a manageable region where it's not easily distinguished, but the cost to that is usually a significantly bigger box. 

$200 for subs will get you into the range of an Image Dynamics IDQ10, which is the sub I'd recommend at that price point for that type of music listening. That said, I'm assuming you like to listen to music at sane volumes and you understand the limits of subwoofers. The IDQ subs are excellent SQ subs that can dig pretty deep. Low moving mass, strong motor, works well in smallish sealed boxes, and can take some power, but it's not an SPL monster. These win SQ competitions. 

Image Dynamics IDQ10 V.3 D4 (IDQ10-V3D4) 10" Dual 4 ohm IDQ V.3 Sub

I'm assuming you're looking for more SQ than SPL and you want to hear every individual note in your music cleanly, musically, and accurately. Don't get me wrong, the IDQ10 can pound pretty hard, but it's not going to be one of those massive throw SPL subwoofers that are made to do nothing but be loud. If you want something a bit more on the SPL side, something similar to a larger Alpine Type-R sub would be more suitable, but I can make other recommendations if you want.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

DMac1988 said:


> I havent seen anyone try soundstream before. I have a 12" soundstrem with a 1200w sony xplod. And they ran deadly. Just warned i cant install subs in my cruze. Cuz it can blow the airbags if not installed slowly n saftely. But soundstream is crazy subs. Waayyyy better then pioneer, rock, sony, alpine. Trust me. Search soundstream subs on youtube. Or even their site for more info. Pls comes with a wicked giant spider decal for your window. I was proud of my sub. I toned it so it didnt rattle the trunk but rattled you glass of water inside your house. No joke. My boss even said he can hear me coming to work in the morning. Hahahahha


If you're looking for something that really pounds and is built like a tank, Soundstream would be a good option. I'd put them up there with brands like MTX and Orion. I wouldn't put them above all Alpine or RF subs, but definitely better than some of their lower end options. 

I never liked putting decals on my window. It's a shopping list for thieves. I learned my lesson after I got $1200 worth of equipment stolen out of my trunk once.


----------



## Silver Cruze (Sep 1, 2011)

WENT AND HAD AN INFINITY BASSLINK PUT IN MY CAR. iT IS 200 WATTS RMS. 10" X 2. A LITTLE PRICEY BUT I LOVE THE SOUND WITH THE FACTORY RADIO.


----------



## albow77 (Feb 18, 2012)

Extream Rev

So will the ID idq10 take loud volumes and high watts for a period of time or is it made to be used at half volume and only sound quality? I like listening at normal volumes most of the time but I like to rattle the car some times with a good song. I also work 12hr overnight shifts and have 45min drive home so loud music is what keeps me awake on those bad nights. The sub will see max volume sometimes and I don't want to waste $200 on the ID sub if it can't handle that. I am 34 years old and rap is not in my play list anymore. But if I did get out one of the few old rap CDs I own to give the sub workout will it take it? I am not loking to rattle the mirror off but good *hard hitting bass* to suppliment the factory stereo. So should I get the ID or a good SPL.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

albow77 said:


> Extream Rev
> 
> So will the ID idq10 take loud volumes and high watts for a period of time or is it made to be used at half volume and only sound quality? I like listening at normal volumes most of the time but I like to rattle the car some times with a good song. I also work 12hr overnight shifts and have 45min drive home so loud music is what keeps me awake on those bad nights. The sub will see max volume sometimes and I don't want to waste $200 on the ID sub if it can't handle that. I am 34 years old and rap is not in my play list anymore. But if I did get out one of the few old rap CDs I own to give the sub workout will it take it? I am not loking to rattle the mirror off but good *hard hitting bass* to suppliment the factory stereo. So should I get the ID or a good SPL.


The answer to your question is a difficult one and I'll try to make it short in explaining why. 

Most people are accustomed to one note wonder SPL boxes. High tuned ported boxes that sound very loud. You'll get a lot of "bass beat" out of them and it will shake your mirrors and make the high school kids turn their heads. If that's what you're looking for, I would instead point you to a Sundown Audio SA-10 or SA-12. Can you give me something to compare to? What have you heard that you would consider to be loud? For me, my 10" IDMax is loud, but that has nearly 4" of peak to peak excursion, digs deep, and is for all intents and purposes an "SQL sub." Gigantic motor, 1000W power handling, etc. 

The IDQ10 will hit hard and get loud...*for a 10" sub in a sealed box. *I actually don't think you'll find a 10" sub that gets louder than an IDQ10 in a *sealed *box around that price point. I stress that point because a 10" sub in a *ported *box will be louder due to the box alignment (as well as requiring a larger box). The IDQ drivers aren't recommended for ported boxes. The sub has a fairly high excursion which will allow it to hit harder than most 10" subs, and it has a proprietary ID surround that allows it to maximize cone area. In order to create bass, you need to move air. We do that either by increasing excursion or increasing cone area, or both.

Let me make a comparison. The RE SEX 10" subwoofer has a cone area of 310 square cm. The Image Dynamics IDQ10 has a cone area of 399 square cm. That's an increase of ~30% cone area, which means the IDQ10 will be 30% louder. However, put the SEX10 in a ported box and the tables might turn, but the sound quality won't be anywhere near the same. Granted, it's not exactly a valid comparison as the SEX10 is a bit cheaper, but I'm just trying to illustrate a point. 

So what I want to know is what exactly it is that you're looking for? If you just want to rattle your brain all day, I'd direct you here or the 12" version:







Amazon.com: SA-10 D4 - Sundown Audio 10" Dual 4-Ohm SA Series Subwoofer: Car Electronics

I had a buddy who ran two of those in a ported box and they caused side panels on the rear of his car to wobble and flex. Loud as ****. 

The problem is that all you'll enjoy is brain-rattling music. It won't sound good on classic rock. You'll find as I did on several occasions that the SPL-purposed sub won't sound good on all types of music, only some that are designed for synthetic bass. You can't just switch from rap to classic rock and expect the sub to sound tight, accurate, and *musical*. SPL subs create *noise*. SQ subs create *music*. SQL subs can do both, but are expensive, or you can get multiple SQ subs to increase output. 

The IDQ10 is an SQ sub with a bit of SPL capability, but it isn't an SPL sub. You can give it max volume, and it has the excursion capability to go all the way without a doubt. Don't get me wrong, it's a beefy sub. For those nights when you want to get some rap playing, it will dig pretty deep, but it's not going to compare to the purpose-built SPL boxes you might have heard in the past by brands like Kicker and MTX. If you wanted a sub that had the best of both words, you'd be looking into an IDMax10, which would set you back closer to $400 and require ~1000W RMS of power. 

Audio is extremely subjective. You're not going to get an "SQL" sub for $200, at least not to my standards. If you want a musical instrument that can pound with authority on occasion but will mostly be used at moderate volumes, go with the IDQ10. If you want an all-out bass SPL monster that won't sound quite as good, go with the SA-10 or SA-12. If you're intrigued by the sound quality of an IDQ driver, drop another ~$50 and go with an IDQ12. I seriously doubt you'd be disappointed with that sub on all fronts.

Ask Josh Herman what he thinks of the 4 IDQ12s in the box I built for him:
http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/36-electronics/6018-audio-upgrade-complete-noob-help-16.html

Personally, I'd push to get you to buy an IDQ10 for one reason. If you're anything like me, if you went with an SPL oriented sub in a ported box, you'd enjoy it for maybe up to a year, then you'd get sick of it. You'd grow out of it and want something more musical. The only way out would be to sell it and start over. If I can help it, I prefer to help people skip that step. I haven't had anyone come back and tell me they were disappointed in the IDQ's ability to pound with authority. If you get an SQ sub and want something louder after a year, you can always add a second sub to get more output.

In the end though, I'm not trying to sell you a product. I have no affiliation with ID; but I've had some outstanding above and beyond experiences with them, and there's something to be said about a company who's subs constantly win SQ competitions.


----------



## albow77 (Feb 18, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> The answer to your question is a difficult one and I'll try to make it short in explaining why.
> 
> Most people are accustomed to one note wonder SPL boxes. High tuned ported boxes that sound very loud. You'll get a lot of "bass beat" out of them and it will shake your mirrors and make the high school kids turn their heads. If that's what you're looking for, I would instead point you to a Sundown Audio SA-10 or SA-12. Can you give me something to compare to? What have you heard that you would consider to be loud? For me, my 10" IDMax is loud, but that has nearly 4" of peak to peak excursion, digs deep, and is for all intents and purposes an "SQL sub." Gigantic motor, 1000W power handling, etc.
> 
> ...



I will give the IDQ10 a try. What kind of amp would you recommend and specs on a box. I want an amp that has a remote power level adjustment. In some other posts I seen that you like hifonics. What power should I go with and what series?? If I can save $100 on an amp and get something just as good as the kickers that I have been using I will give them a try. 

Thanks for your input on this subject and your time. It has been very helpful. And that goes out to everyone that has posted.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

albow77 said:


> I will give the IDQ10 a try. What kind of amp would you recommend and specs on a box. I want an amp that has a remote power level adjustment. In some other posts I seen that you like hifonics. What power should I go with and what series?? If I can save $100 on an amp and get something just as good as the kickers that I have been using I will give them a try.
> 
> Thanks for your input on this subject and your time. It has been very helpful. And that goes out to everyone that has posted.


Basically, run with something that has the power you need; 500W RMS at 2 ohms or 4 ohms, depending on if you get the D4 or D2 version of the sub. Shoot me your email address in a PM and I'll send you the manual for the sub if you want. 

I'd recommend a .9 cubic foot box for the sub, gross volume. Double thick baffle with the second baffle as a recess for the sub. Check out the first link in my signature to see how I've built the last couple of boxes. 

I've been recommending Hifonics on a number of occasions because they've really stepped up to the plate in recent years and made some solid products. They used to be over-rated, over-hyped, flashy amps, and now they're CEA certified and produce the power they say, and look very slick. They're an affordable way to get gobs of clean power. 

Personally, I'd run one of these:
Hifonics Brutus BRZ1200.1D, BRZ 1200.1D Class D Car Amplifier/Amp

Grab the Dual4 ohm version of the sub to give it 900W RMS from this amp. I've never seen anyone cook a quality sub by over-powering it; the issue was always underpowering it and sending a clipped signal. I ran two IDQ10s a couple of years ago on 1000W RMS, and they were rated for 250W RMS each. They sounded very clean. The idea here is that you'll physically bottom out the sub long before you reach it's 500W thermal wattage rating. Another advantage is that should you choose to add a second sub at a later date, the amplifier will have the headroom to go to 1200W RMS @ 1 ohm. Overpowering the sub ensures you never clip the amp and provide a distortion-free signal. 

And here's the sub, Dual 4 so you can wire it down to 2 ohms. 
Image Dynamics IDQ10 V.3 D4 (IDQ10-V3D4) 10" Dual 4 ohm IDQ V.3 Sub

You're in for a real treat with this sub.


----------



## amalmer71 (Apr 5, 2012)

Another option, for the same price, is the same amp just rated a little higher (probably for marketing). It's made by Maxxonics, too.

It's just a little different look.

The MB Quart ONX1.1500D
MB Quart ONX1.1500D - ONYX Class D Monoblock Car Amplifier/Amp


AAMOF, it has the exact same end panel number as the Hifonics.



















Granted, it doesn't meet the SAE-2006 criteria, but it's the same amp. It just hasn't been certified yet.


----------



## albow77 (Feb 18, 2012)

I bought the IDQ3 10" for $190, a hifonics brutis 1000 watt amp for $140 and the gm direct connect rca preout kit for $34. I had a 4 gauge amp kit sitting around. Got it installed about 2 weeks ago and it sounds good. I still need to build a larger box than the one that I got back from my brother and have the sub in now. The box is a .60 cubic foot and will be making a .90 cubic foot when I get time. Thanks for your help on the system. Sounds good for less than $400.


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

albow77 said:


> I bought the IDQ3 10" for $190, a hifonics brutis 1000 watt amp for $140 and the gm direct connect rca preout kit for $34. I had a 4 gauge amp kit sitting around. Got it installed about 2 weeks ago and it sounds good. I still need to build a larger box than the one that I got back from my brother and have the sub in now. The box is a .60 cubic foot and will be making a .90 cubic foot when I get time. Thanks for your help on the system. Sounds good for less than $400.


I would actually push for 1 cubic foot for that sub. .6 cubic feet is indeed much too small.

Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App


----------



## albow77 (Feb 18, 2012)

XtremeRevolution said:


> I would actually push for 1 cubic foot for that sub. .6 cubic feet is indeed much too small.
> 
> Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using AutoGuide.Com Free App



OK ... thanks for the help!!!


----------



## XtremeRevolution (Jan 19, 2012)

albow77 said:


> OK ... thanks for the help!!!


If you can, I'd also highly recommend a thick pad behind the subwoofer on the wall (mineral wool or 2.5"+ thick acoustic foam works well).


----------

