# R99 Renewable Diesel - Thoughts?



## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

Hey friends!

Has anyone tried this yet? My Cruze seems to love it. I've noticed that on cold acceleration, it's "smoother" and regens around town are less frequent than regular #2 diesel. I never smell "French fries" or anything like that and I have only seen it at 76 stations here in California. 

Would you use it? Per the advertising, it has higher cetane. That's good, right? 









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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

You run the risk of voiding your warranty.

GM only warranties up to 20% biodiesel because of the way regeneration of the DPF is performed. To heat the DPF there is extra fuel injected during the exhaust stroke. That fuel is supposed to vaporize, get swept out the exhaust, and then the first exhaust treatment is a catalyst where this excess vaporized diesel ignites to heat the exhaust gas up past 1,200F to burn off any soot in the DPF. The problem is that biodiesel has higher vaporization and ignition temperatures, so the risk is that some of the fuel will cling to the cylinder walls and get swept past the piston rings to end up as fuel diluted in the oil. You'll then have potential for oil polymerization with the biodiesel reacting in the oil sump.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I ran b99 for a period of time on my diesel truck 

I don't recommend it. Lacks stability and will clog fuel filter. 

It has less energy than standard diesel and will combust at a lower temp. This will effect the regeneration and clog DPF over time.

I would not go higher than the recommended b20 for the diesel Cruze 

Jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Oh, wait, this isn't biodiesel. It's diesel fuel that meets the D975 specifications and is based on biological sources, but it isn't an ester fuel.

Looks like it's fine for your car after doing some quick searches on the subject.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

What is the difference between renewable diesel and traditional biodiesel - if any?


Neste Corporation News 26 September 2016 What is the difference between renewable diesel and traditional biodiesel - if any? Lower emissions, cleaner, and more efficiently burning than traditional biodiesel, with better cold and storage properties. Many motorists are not aware of the differences...




www.neste.com






It has cetane between 75-95!!!! No wonder you are happy with it.

Jeff


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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> Oh, wait, this isn't biodiesel. It's diesel fuel that meets the D975 specifications and is based on biological sources, but it isn't an ester fuel.
> 
> Looks like it's fine for your car after doing some quick searches on the subject.


Yeah, I've been scared to put that bio-diesel in my tank. I will definitely stay away from bio. 

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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

oregon_rider said:


> I ran b99 for a period of time on my diesel truck
> 
> I don't recommend it. Lacks stability and will clog fuel filter.
> 
> ...


I've seeb the B stuff here but always have been scared to run it with this emissions hardware. Ha! Thanks. 

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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

Barry Allen said:


> Oh, wait, this isn't biodiesel. It's diesel fuel that meets the D975 specifications and is based on biological sources, but it isn't an ester fuel.
> 
> Looks like it's fine for your car after doing some quick searches on the subject.


Thanks. It's confusing when you're at the pump and you see "renewable"-I kept thinking french fry oil, LOL. 

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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

oregon_rider said:


> What is the difference between renewable diesel and traditional biodiesel - if any?
> 
> 
> Neste Corporation News 26 September 2016 What is the difference between renewable diesel and traditional biodiesel - if any? Lower emissions, cleaner, and more efficiently burning than traditional biodiesel, with better cold and storage properties. Many motorists are not aware of the differences...
> ...


Heck yeah, I hope it catches on and that more stations offer it... It seems good so far. 

Thanks Barry and Oregon for your replies! 

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## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

How does the cost compare to alternatives in your area? 

Any MPG loss? I regularly drop about 2mpg switching from No.2 dinosaur sludge to what I assume is B5 biodiesel (pump just says "biodiesel.")


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

I really wish we could get this stuff on the East Coast. I've read nothing but good things for any diesel. Would love to try it in the Cruze as well as the older diesels. Alas, I don't see it coming out here since the powers to be and the public are more interesting in getting rid of diesels rather than doing things to make them cleaner. It may not make a huge difference on one car but factored in across all the commercial trucks on the road it could for sure. I know supply would likely have its limitations but still wish it were an option out here.


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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

Hey Phil,

So far, I’ve seen the reverse- an increase of 1-2 mpg in town and my regen cycles are slightly further apart. 

Dino-diesel in town regens occur every 230-240 miles for me and mpg during regen typically drops to 24-26 mpg.
With R99, both regens so far have been 260+ miles apart and the mpg during the regen is consistently between 27-30 mpg. 

It seems to be an improvement on all fronts and not to mention 10+ cents cheaper per gallon according to GasBuddy. I agree with others about BIO- my last and ONLY tank of that stuff was stinky during cold starts/idle and my distance between regens dropped to *140*ish miles. Definitely staying away from that stuff!


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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

Hey Bodhi,

I totally agree, it should be promoted and encouraged in all areas and locations. If I end up experiencing anything strange, I'll be sure to post about it here at some point.

Thanks, everyone!


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

hordak82 said:


> Per the advertising, it has higher cetane.


Is there a cetane rating listed on the pump? California requires a minimum of 53, so 100% of diesel fuel sold in the state is pretty high quality (and also more expensive).

Cetane is similar to octane in that once you "have enough" there is no benefit to having more. With a gasoline engine, once the fuel octane rating is enough to give ideal performance in the engine, it doesn't help to go up any higher. Our diesel engines call for the federal minimum cetane rating of 40, and you'd have to find some absolute garbage fuel to get that low. The average cetane rating of fuel in the USA is about 45-47 because most brand-name stations use at least a minimum additive package to bring the number up a bit. Cetane of 45 or above virtually guarantees any diesel engine runs fine on the fuel. For a little bit extra air quality in places that matter, bumping the cetane rating up to above 50 (like in California and also the eastern parts of Texas) gets you a fuel guaranteed to give you thorough, complete combustion for the lowest amount of soot possible to come out the exhaust.

A cetane rating of anything higher than the low 50s does nothing. It doesn't help combustion or pollution any. Having a fuel with a cetane rating of 70 or greater like is claimed for this renewable diesel does help other petroleum diesel fuels in that you can blend the renewable fuel with petrodiesel to bring up the cetane rating of the petrodiesel. A blended fuel would burn better and cleaner thanks to the renewable fuel content just the same as biodiesel fuel blends burn cleaner due to that biofuel bringing the cetane rating up.


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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

Hey Barry,
I looked at the pump signage earlier during a fill-up and it is rather vague. I'll check again next time I fill-up to be sure. The website does say that it is 70 plus, though:









Renewable Diesel


Give your engine the taste of 76® Renewable Diesel. Fill up on 76® Renewable Diesel at select California stations.




www.76.com





Do you think mixing a tank of regular #2 and this renewable stuff would be safe to try?  Engine shouldn't mind, right? 

Thanks. 

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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

hordak82 said:


> Hey Barry,
> I looked at the pump signage earlier during a fill-up and it is rather vague. I'll check again next time I fill-up to be sure. The website does say that it is 70 plus, though:
> 
> 
> ...


 Been doing alot of reading on this new wonder fuel....

It can be blended with #2 diesel in any mix you desire.  

I found one place selling it here in oregon. I need to set up an account to use their card lock.

It isn't inexpensive here and will probably mix it 50/50 while using vehicle around town to avoid issues with dpf clogging...

Jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

hordak82 said:


> Do you think mixing a tank of regular #2 and this renewable stuff would be safe to try?


You can fill up with 100% of this renewable fuel. It is different than biodiesel and there are no restrictions on using it in any diesel engine. If the cost is manageable compared to regular petroleum diesel fuel, you should fill up exclusively with this renewable fuel.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> I found one place selling it here in oregon. I need to set up an account to use their card lock.
> 
> It isn't inexpensive here and will probably mix it 50/50 while using vehicle around town to avoid issues with dpf clogging...


I'm jealous that you've got an outlet selling this fuel even if you have to have an account with a special card. I'm in the midwest and I doubt this fuel will make it anywhere near me anytime soon.


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## 6speedTi (May 18, 2018)

In Florida it's not mandated to post a Cetane rating decal at the pump. The ones that voluntarily posted a cetane rating have all been a rating of 40. Cetane rating of 40 seems to be the lowest that is used. 
I wonder if a 40 rating is garbage fuel quality even if you use a reputable oil company like Shell, Exxon and Chevron.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

6speedTi said:


> In Florida it's not mandated to post a Cetane rating decal at the pump. The ones that voluntarily posted a cetane rating have all been a rating of 40. Cetane rating of 40 seems to be the lowest that is used.
> I wonder if a 40 rating is garbage fuel quality even if you use a reputable oil company like Shell, Exxon and Chevron.


Diesel fuel had zero required specifications up until about 1993. It was whatever oil refiners wanted to sell and it was a widely variable, "bottom-of-the-barrel" fuel in terms of quality. It was the leftovers from oil refining that were sold cheaper than gasoline.

About 1993 is when the EPA first gave us Low Sulfur Diesel, that was 500ppm for on-road fuel and 5,000ppm for off-road fuel. This was the first step toward improving air quality. At the same time the 40 cetane rating minimum was established as a fuel standard.

Beginning in 2007 it is Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel with a 15ppm limit on sulfur, and standard refining practice often gives us 0ppm sulfur or very near it. I'm not 100% certain but I believe 500ppm is now the allowed standard for off-road fuel. However, refineries don't want to maintain two fuel standards so current practice is that 100% of fuel in distribution for all use is ULSD. Home heating oil, on-road diesel, off-road diesel, all of it is ULSD so there can be one fuel specification in the distribution network for ease of handling and sale.

The refining for ULSD gives us a fuel with lots of quality specifications, and the end product is about 45-47 cetane at the pump. From any refinery making diesel fuel for sale in North America, I can't picture there being anything as low quality as 40 cetane. Winter diesel fuel products have some drop in cetane rating due to the heavier wax components being removed, but you can easily boost this with a cetane improver additive and most fuel stations do this when the fuel is loaded into tank trailers for dropping at the fuel stations. There will be an anti-gel additive added that also boosts cetane a few numbers.

Florida might be a bit different, but the quality of modern diesel fuel still holds up even if they aren't putting winter additives in there (because in Florida, WHY?!). You'll probably get fuel of about 45 cetane as a minimum, and just put some Power Service in there to bring up up another 3-6 numbers depending on quantity of additive.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> will probably mix it 50/50 while using vehicle around town to avoid issues with dpf clogging


Skip that plan. Just buy regular fuel from a known good station and put an additive in there to clean injectors and boost cetane. The biggest contributors to soot creation (which loads the DPF) are injectors that don't have a good spray pattern and fuels that could be higher in cetane. Both of these lead to more soot. If you keep injectors clean and use fuel with good cetane numbers you will have good, clean combustion in your engine and it will develop more power, be more fuel efficient, etc.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> Skip that plan. Just buy regular fuel from a known good station and put an additive in there to clean injectors and boost cetane. The biggest contributors to soot creation (which loads the DPF) are injectors that don't have a good spray pattern and fuels that could be higher in cetane. Both of these lead to more soot. If you keep injectors clean and use fuel with good cetane numbers you will have good, clean combustion in your engine and it will develop more power, be more fuel efficient, etc.


Hi Barry,

I think my plan is quite valid.

We had dpf issues running high cetane Chevron fuel with stanadyne additive. So I am looking for something "more".

I have looked at a number of tech papers and presentations - it is very consistent that renewable diesel produces 30% less soot than en590 diesel. With less soot I have less DPF issues.... And on top of that the soot that is created is more "reactive" - the soot is different between en590 and R99. It burns off more easily for shorter regen cycles.

Multiple city fleets report dramatic improvements with dpf regenerations using renewable diesel.



https://eventsimages.bobitstudios.com/upload/pdfs/gfx/2017/speaker-presentations/renewable_diesel_-_facts_from_fleet_users_-_richard_battersby_and_gary_lentsch.pdf



Best Regards
jeff


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## 6speedTi (May 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> Hi Barry,
> 
> I think my plan is quite valid.
> 
> ...


Just make sure the lubricating properties are equal or better. Fuel pumps and fuel injectors are critical in the new diesels today.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

6speedTi said:


> Just make sure the lubricating properties are equal or better. Fuel pumps and fuel injectors are critical in the new diesels today.


 In terms of lubricity, renewable diesel needs additives to achieve en590 spec for hfrr (lubricity).

I plan to use stanadyne performance formula as a precaution.

Oregon diesel duel is mandated to be 5 percent biodiesel. Chevron imports soy biodiesel for this purpose here in Oregon. 

Even 2 percent biodiesel will provide enough lubricity to meet en590 euro fuel spec for hfrr. 

So if I do mix R99 and Chevron diesel 50/50 I am still in very good shape ... Fuel will meet tighter en590 fuel spec and will produce 15 percent less soot.

best regards
jeff


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

As a side note. If I were living in California, I would not bother mixing renewable diesel 50/50 with Chevron pump diesel. I would run straight renewable diesel (R99). 

The issue here in oregon is cost of R99. It is not subsidized as it is in California. And it is only available in one location. So.cost of R99 here is much higher than pump diesel. More than a dollar higher...

Jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> Oregon diesel duel is mandated to be 5 percent biodiesel. Even 2 percent biodiesel will provide enough lubricity to meet en590 euro fuel spec for hfrr.


So... isn't the "R99" fuel 5% biodiesel if that's a state mandate? Shouldn't they be blending and marketing as 94% renewable diesel, 5% biodiesel, and 1% "other" (probably petroleum diesel) to meet the biodiesel requirement?


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> So... isn't the "R99" fuel 5% biodiesel if that's a state mandate? Shouldn't they be blending and marketing as 94% renewable diesel, 5% biodiesel, and 1% "other" (probably petroleum diesel) to meet the biodiesel requirement?


I wondered the same thing....

R99 is treated as a fuel that meets the b5 mandate....

https://www.oregon.gov/deq/FilterDocs/cfpdieselfaq.pdf

Jeff


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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

Looks like it's probably the same as Propel HPR+. I've been running that almost all the time since new. Good to know I can go to 76 as well.

Assuming it is, it's not a "biodiesel" formulation, it's a regular diesel from a renewable source. Lower carbon footprint and 75 cetane. As a bonus, it doesn't stink like regular diesel.


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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

It's probably this stuff









Renewable Road Transport


Neste MY Renewable Diesel™ reduces GHG emissions up to 90% compared to fossil diesel. The fuel is an existing solution for reducing the climate impact of road transport - today.




www.neste.com


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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

froyofanatic said:


> Looks like it's probably the same as Propel HPR+. I've been running that almost all the time since new. Good to know I can go to 76 as well.
> 
> Assuming it is, it's not a "biodiesel" formulation, it's a regular diesel from a renewable source. Lower carbon footprint and 75 cetane. As a bonus, it doesn't stink like regular diesel.


Hey Froyo,
Do try the 76 R99 and see if you notice a difference. For me, it was night and day compared to that Propel stuff and #2 dino diesel.









Renewable Diesel


Give your engine the taste of 76® Renewable Diesel. Fill up on 76® Renewable Diesel at select California stations.




www.76.com





Neste appears to be the same but I need try it and see if the car approves or not. 




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## froyofanatic (Jul 16, 2018)

No, looks like it's all in NorCal. I haven't been up there in a long while.

I think it feels a little peppier with the HPR+ but it's not a massive difference.

I think a lot of it is the cleaning properties it has, cleaning the gunk out of the engine.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> In terms of lubricity, renewable diesel needs additives to achieve en590 spec for hfrr (lubricity).
> 
> I plan to use stanadyne performance formula as a precaution.


If the R99 fuel were affordable where you live (you've said it is not cost competitive), I'd fill up with R99 and maybe put a pint of Wesson oil in the tank for lubricity. That's probably the cheapest additive to use.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> If the R99 fuel were affordable where you live (you've said it is not cost competitive), I'd fill up with R99 and maybe put a pint of Wesson oil in the tank for lubricity. That's probably the cheapest additive to use.


Vegetable Oil ash and polymerized VO are terrible things to have in a modern diesel. A 1980s Mercedes would let you run many, many gallons of SVO before the prechambers and piston rings were hopelessly coked up. 
A Cruze diesel would likely see greatly reduced DPF life with that fuel additive.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> If the R99 fuel were affordable where you live (you've said it is not cost competitive), I'd fill up with R99 and maybe put a pint of Wesson oil in the tank for lubricity. That's probably the cheapest additive to use.


 I was thinking about it a little more - and I previously said I would use stanadyne performance formula to make sure I had enough lubricity. On second thought I would use their lubricity formula - comes in much more concentrated form and less expensive. I don't need cold flow protection and cetane boost when running R99... Only lubricity additive as precaution (they probably mix in enough)...

And I agree with the other statement about using straight veggie oil - not something I would feel comfortable doing either...

jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Taxman said:


> Vegetable Oil ash and polymerized VO are terrible things to have in a modern diesel. A 1980s Mercedes would let you run many, many gallons of SVO before the prechambers and piston rings were hopelessly coked up.
> A Cruze diesel would likely see greatly reduced DPF life with that fuel additive.


Really? I assumed a clean vegetable oil free of sulfur would be fine for use in small quantities.


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## Taxman (Aug 10, 2017)

I'm sure small quantities of VO would leave small quantities of residues, but those residues are pretty evil, and the CTD has a very expensive filter designed to catch all the residue.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

So much fail and misinformation in this thread.

I used HVO aka Renewable Diesel for over 3 years now. In 4 different diesel vehicles.

I always dose with a quality fuel additive @ 400:1 ratio. With addition of fuel additive that improves combustion Diesel #2 gives better performance than Renewable diesel.

Renewable Diesel causes ~ 5 % reduction in fuel economy. Any FE increase you experience is due to reduced DPF regeneration cycles (which can also be offset with additive to D2).

HVO aka Renewable diesel causes a reduction in low end torque. This may be caused by the high cetane which reduces peak cylinder pressure. This may also be the cause of reduced FE with this fuel.

Renewable Diesel causes fuel system leaks in older diesels. It is common and well documented with older VW 1.9L TDIs when owners switch to it.

I track all my fill ups with the Fuelly app so my data is accurate. I also use oil analysis to track wear metals and soot % in engine oil.

My final thoughts

There was a study I read that showed D2 blended with RD in a 70/30 ratio showed a ~ 1.5% FE improvement, so this may be the sweet spot for someone who has time to experiment.

I used to use RD exclusively in my Modern diesel vehicles that have DPF and SCR. I’ve noticed that D2 w/ additive is better so I don’t use it anymore except as a blend.

Biodiesel bends, especially B20 don’t burn as clean and increase oil soot %. RD is exactly the opposite and burns relatively clean, even without the additive.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Diesel4Ever said:


> I always dose with a quality fuel additive @ 400:1 ratio. With addition of fuel additive that improves combustion Diesel #2 gives better performance than Renewable diesel.


What additive do you use?


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Barry Allen said:


> What additive do you use?


Hi Barry,

I've been using Amalgamated TDR-FL for a couple years now. Only additive I've ever used that actually had noticeable results. It's reduced my engine oil soot % by 50-75 % over the course of an oil change in two different test vehicles. It has some organic metallic ingredients which are catalysts and improve combustion, and don't show up on the SDS. I think one of them is MMT as I find 25-30 ppm of Manganese in my oil samples which isn't a wear metal you'd normally find in those concentrations.

The dose is 10 mL per gallon of diesel fuel added to the tank which is 400:1. I have noticed a slight increase in Fuel Economy as well but can't say for sure because of external factors like weather, traffic, etc.. but maybe like 2% at the most fuel economy improvement on CARB 53 cetane diesel #2.

The engine oil stays clear until about 5K miles, then it starts to get a little dark. I check my engine oil every couple fill-ups and the effect is dramatic. Even after 8K miles the oil still wasn't pitch black, and soot was only @ 0.1%. This comparison is on engines equipped with EGR as well so the effect works with emissions controlled cars which would cause the oil to get dirty faster.






TDR-FL is a Summer Premium Diesel Fuel Additive for Performance


This premium diesel fuel additive contains advanced technology injection cleaners, lubricity agents, excellent combustion improvers and efficient smoke suppressants for older and newer engines.



www.amalgamatedinc.com


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I wouldn't run an additive with mmt in my gen 2 Cruze diesel. If concentration is too high or with regular use you can foul sensors or catalytic converter. Not worth the risk to me.

There are a number of fleets that have switched over to R99 without any reported issues like leaks etc. 

R99 does have approximately 5 percent less btu per gallon so reduced mpg is expected. 

But if the overall mileage is the same due to reduced regen and regen duration, then who cares?

I will be running R99 as a very low risk method to drastically reduce my probability of having dpf issues on short trips etc. The only downside might be getting a little less mpg, but getting a little less mpg.along.the way is fine with me and well worth the trade off. 

And on longer trips I will mix in diesel #2 for economy/cost effectiveness....

Jeff


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> I wouldn't run an additive with mmt in my gen 2 Cruze diesel. If concentration is too high or with regular use you can foul sensors or catalytic converter. Not worth the risk to me.
> 
> There are a number of fleets that have switched over to R99 without any reported issues like leaks etc.
> 
> ...


As I said, the fuel leaks common when owners switch to R99 is well documented with 1.9 TDIs. In fact, I tried mixing it 50/50 with D2 in my '03 golf and I developed a small fuel leak on the return line to the injection pump. The next tank I filled up with pure D2 and the leak miraculously went away... The common fix for people who like to use this fuel in 1.9s and chase down fuel leaks is to replace rubber parts with Viton.

There isn't any evidence that MMT fouls sensors or the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst found in our DPFs. In fact, Manganese Oxides are used in the manufacturing of some Oxygen sensors as the electrode material.

MMT has been shown to actually clean DOCs in modern diesel engines. It also reduces exhaust PM and NOX formation.



> Phosphorous and Sulfur scavenging have been demonstrated during diesel combustion. Aftertreatment protection from P & S helps to preserve catalyst conversion efficiency.





> MMT decreases the rate of soot accumulating in a DPF. There is also a significant reduction in soot oxidation temperature leading to regeneration


MMT was shown to reduce PM accumulation in a DPF by 20% with a dose as small as 10ppm. That is .00001%



https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f9/2002_deer_human.pdf



Soot is the worst thing for sensors. It is composed of unburned hydrocarbons and when it is introduced by EGR and mixes with oil becomes a placque. This placque is what plugs up intake manifolds, swirl valves, turbochargers, basically anything in the intake and exhaust system.Soot is the result of incomplete combustion.

How can an additive that reduces soot by up to 75% be harmful?

Any study that shows MMT is harmful to catalysts was not performed on a diesel engine and is probably 40 years old. My experience using it in 4 different diesel vehicles with DPF and DOC are all positive.

I get better performance with CARB D2 mixed with an MMT additive than with straight R99. Without any side effects like reduced fuel economy and low end torque found with R99. This is a running average which includes regeneration frequency.

I was an R99 fanboy too and knowing it's a LCFS is pretty cool. However it's subsidized by the state and if people had to pay the true cost it wouldn't be half as popular here in CA as it is.


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## Cruz15 (Mar 17, 2016)

I wish I had this fuel in my area. I would only run this and nothing else.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Cruz15 said:


> I wish I had this fuel in my area. I would only run this and nothing else.


Only if the price delta is not outrageous. It would be worth running a blend to bring cetane numbers up above the federal minimum of 40 (though you can't really find anything below about 45-47 at pumps anywhere). 

If you live in California you are getting 53 cetane diesel, and 110 counties in Texas require 48 cetane (or an alternative fuel formation). In California you are already getting good quality diesel fuel at any pump so the only benefit for additives is adding injector cleaning and maybe some lubricity for the fuel pump.


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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

Recently, this particular 76 has switched to R95. [emoji848]

Car runs about the same on it from what I can tell. [emoji2369]









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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I also.just started running it and it does run smoother. I am using R99 here in Portland Oregon.

I have a scangauge 2 to monitor soot load in the diesel particulate filter and it is nothing short of amazing. After a regen it will normally jump to 50 percent pretty quickly and climb very slowly until a regen

When I filled up with R99 I plugged in scangauge to see that regen had happened 15 miles earlier and I was at 37 percent soot load.... I hopped on the highway and it climbed further into high 40s low 50 which is typical behavior...

The R99 is.lighter than #2 diesel so if you add it on top of #2 it takes a bit of time to blend in the tank. So I did not see an immediate result...

I then went across town and back where it started to drop and drop. Eventually getting as low.as 18 percent. And this was with in town driving at the tail end of my drive...

I am now sitting at 22 percent soot load with 150 miles since last regen...

I had 3 gallons of #2 and added 11 gallons of R99 so I was running something like R80...

Jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

hordak82 said:


> Recently, this particular 76 has switched to R95. [emoji848]
> 
> Car runs about the same on it from what I can tell. [emoji2369]


HAH! Retail diesel slipped under $2 a gallon here. You can kiss it if you think I'm paying $3.44 a gallon when I can get petroleum diesel for $1.79.


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## hordak82 (Jan 2, 2019)

I'd use the $1.79 stuff if it were that cheap, but regular #2 is about the same as this renewable stuff. Thanks, California! Haha. 

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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Yep. Hear ya there. Here in the northwest diesel is still over 3 bucks a gallon and i paid 3.65 a gallon for r99.

In a month I expect diesel #2 to drop to 2 bucks per gallon or below. That
will kill biodiesel, renewable diesel and kill some electric cars along the way!!!!

Watch Tesla stock take a dump when gasoline hits $1.50 a gallon... It is down 50 percent over the last month. ..

Jeff


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## phil1734 (Aug 30, 2019)

Tesla has been thriving on brand image, not because fuel was expensive. As soon as they are no longer "cool" to own and the everyday consumer recognizes them as poorly designed and assembled cars that are a nightmare to have serviced they're going to be in a rough spot.

The stock is plummeting because their bubble finally burst.


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## MP81 (Jul 20, 2015)

Their stock is plummeting because the stock market is. Their stock is still hilariously overvalued considering they barely make any money. Ford, GM, FCA all make _billions_ in profit and the stock market barely gives them a second glance. Tesla _doesn't_ lose as much money and their stock soars - it's because they're seen as a "tech company" instead of the auto company they actually are.

But yes, their build quality, while better than it was, is nowhere near anyone else's. And people that drive them do so in order to be seen in one. That said, their powertrain has always been very good, but that's not why they're purchased.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

We are getting off topic, but...

I was able to take a Tesla Factory Tour a few weeks ago. We met in the Tesla Factory showroom where they had a new model 3 on display.

I didn't get in it, I just looked at the outside of it and was shocked by the poor build quality. Where the body panels met there was horrid alignment. You could look at left side of car and the right side and easily see differences in body panel alignment. 

Door alignment to rear quarter panel at top was off by 4 mm.

Where door met lower rocker panel on left side it was off by 5mm and in right side it was in alignment.

If I was looking at this car and it was a used BMW I would come to the conclusion that it had it been in a very bad accident. And then after the accident it had been repaired by the worst body shop you could find. Horrid.... 

The shocking thing to me was that this was what they had on their factory showroom floor. 

My wife loves the car and the brand and would buy one in a heartbeat. Me, I love driving electric cars as I am torque junky. But I could never bring myself to buy a Tesla...

Jeff


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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)

7/11 by my place got some. Car seems to run smoother


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Gen1dieselholic said:


> 7/11 by my place got some. Car seems to run smoother
> View attachment 288220


I'd love to see a pump of that near me, but doesn't look like it will happen in the near future. I'll have to stick to biodiesel blends.


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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)

We are seeing a shift in the industry,
This is what I saw in news yesterday:






Phillips 66 to convert San Francisco refinery to renewable fuels | Biomassmagazine.com


Phillips 66 announced Aug. 12 that it plans to reconfigure its San Francisco Refinery in Rodeo, California, to produce renewable fuels. The project would produce 680 million gallons annually of renewable diesel, gasoline and jet fuel.



www.biomassmagazine.com


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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)

For your entertainment, r99 to the right and ulsd to the left

R99 barely any odor, ulsd standard diesel odor


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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)




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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Gen1dieselholic said:


> For your entertainment, r99 to the right and ulsd to the left
> 
> R99 barely any odor, ulsd standard diesel odor
> View attachment 288249


Interesting stuff. Synthetic diesel fuel (made from natural gas and other feedstock) is usually water clear because of the absence of sulfur and aromatics. It's weird to see what is essentially a synthetic diesel fuel made from biomass feedstock come out with more color than petroleum diesel fuel.


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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)

I didn't know they made diesel from natural gas as well. Very cool.

Thanks for that info.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Gen1dieselholic said:


> I didn't know they made diesel from natural gas as well.











Synthetic fuel - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)

I guess something good to come out of CARB madness and overregulation.

I really like renewable diesel due to reduction in carbon particulate, this means fewer regens and less clogged EGR/intake

I do dislike paying over $3 a gallon, but that's the average cost of diesel out here in kalunicornia 

What bothers me the most is that even though renewable diesel has fewer life cycle emission then charging from the grid, no one really knows about it or promotes it. It's like regulatory agencies have a strong bias against ice. 

Imagine telling a Tesla fanboy that my diesel pollutes less and doesn't employ slave labor in Africa to mine cobalt or dirty lithium mines.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

As an update,, with around town driving my dpf soot load percentage has been around 20 percent.

It isn't just that the fuel results in less soot build up in the dpf and EGR - it burns off more quickly in the dpf.and will passively regenerate just driving around town.

I put a tankful in my 2005 1 ton Duramax and no soot from the tail pipe.. None. Zero..... You can floor it up a grade and see zero black smoke from tail pipe. It burns very very clean.

Jeff


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## BodhiBenz1987 (Jan 13, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> As an update,, with around town driving my dpf soot load percentage has been around 20 percent.
> 
> It isn't just that the fuel results in less soot build up in the dpf and EGR - it burns off more quickly in the dpf.and will passively regenerate just driving around town.
> 
> ...


Really wish I could get this fuel. It could solve or at least help my regen problem ... basically from what I can tell my car can't calibrate soot levels ... but if my actual soot level were behaving like you describe, it would likely stay low enough that even misreading it, it would never reach regen threshold (other than dictated by distance). My soot literally never passively regenerates so maybe this would help it do so. I've tried every brand top tier fuel and Stanadyne and it makes zero difference. Plus even setting my regen issue aside, the EGR and cooler issues seem to be inevitable for most people, and I'd love to push that issue farther away! I wish there were literally anywhere near me with the R99, even if it was 500 miles away, because at least I could try it and see. Not that easy to drive 3,000 miles to see. Of course it's still possible I've had an injector problem this whole time which it likely wouldn't help, but GM refuses to let the dealer check my injectors. If I could get it, R99 would be an easy, harmless things to try on my own.
I know that diesel might not have a place in the longterm future but even if so it will take a long time to roll over infrastructure to electric or whatever. It makes sense to me to push wider use of renewable diesel now for an instant reduction in emissions, even if it isn't perfect. I would love this in my Cruze and in my older diesels, but from an objective standpoint it would be great to see it used by trucks, school buses, etc.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> As an update,, with around town driving my dpf soot load percentage has been around 20 percent.
> 
> It isn't just that the fuel results in less soot build up in the dpf and EGR - it burns off more quickly in the dpf.and will passively regenerate just driving around town.
> 
> ...


I'd love to see this fuel offered as a blend near me. R20 would be great at the pump.

The best I can find is fuel that is 5-20% biodiesel, but they can never guaranteed the blend. I assume it's 20% in summer months, and then, starting about November 1st, it's 5% until March 31. Those are the months that the stations say their diesel fuel is treated to -10ºF with winter additives.

There is one fuel station that I can get a guaranteed 11% blend year-round, but they might have discontinued that. For a number of years the State of Illinois offered a motor fuel sales tax credit if you sold diesel with greater than 10% biodiesel, so 11% was the threshold. For at least 4-5 years that tax credit was running you could easily get B11 at a lot of pumps. I have no idea if they continued the tax credit because our state was running out of money. I mean, like, really running out of money. We've been running out of money for decades but this time it was really, really bad. So the tax credit might have faded and not been renewed.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

One thing to note is that the dpf behavior appeared to get better over time. I think after it burned off the older soot the r99 created soot is more prevalent in the dpf. And it appears to regen much more easily and passively too.

Jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

oregon_rider said:


> I put a tankful in my 2005 1 ton Duramax and no soot from the tail pipe.. None. Zero..... You can floor it up a grade and see zero black smoke from tail pipe. It burns very very clean.


The true test is fill up a Peterbilt cab-over with a Detroit 12V71 and see how much smoke comes out of the stacks.


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## Snipesy (Dec 7, 2015)

Gen1dieselholic said:


> I guess something good to come out of CARB madness and overregulation.
> 
> I really like renewable diesel due to reduction in carbon particulate, this means fewer regens and less clogged EGR/intake
> 
> ...


Out of sight out of mind. Go 20 miles off shore and tell me people care about the environment.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> The true test is fill up a Peterbilt cab-over with a Detroit 12V71 and see how much smoke comes out of the stacks.


 I think it might surprise you...

jeff


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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)




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## Gen1dieselholic (Aug 14, 2020)

That was at Sinclair in Fairfield California


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Gen1dieselholic said:


> View attachment 288523


What made them bump it up to 100%? For a while during the height of biodiesel growth you could find B99, and that was because there was some sort of petroleum blending tax credit. Suppliers were playing games with a tax credit in some sort of manner where pure biodiesel could be blended with 1% petroleum diesel and then sold. I don't remember how the numbers worked, but it was some sort of legal scheme being done for a number of years.

Until last year my state (Illinois) had a motor fuel sales tax credit for any biodiesel blends greater than 10%, so you could find a steady supply of B11 to get that tax credit. The tax credit might have been extended last year - I really don't know. The one place that I knew was selling me B11 year-round (labeled as such on the pumps and receipt) closed in July, so now I've basically switched to 100% petroleum diesel.


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## Richard Battersby (Jun 9, 2021)

I wish I had joined this forum earlier. At the City of Oakland we've been using R99 since 2015 with zero issues. We use it in all of our diesel powered equipment including Code 3 fire apparatuses and stationary emergency power generators including at the 911 call center. In fact I bought 20+ Cruze sedans just to run R99. The Propel HPR is R99 and there is no 100% RD or biodiesel sold because the 1% petroleum is required to earn the blenders credit. Renewable diesel is not a new fuel- it has been used blended into the petroleum diesel fuel supply in California since about 2009 to meet LCSF requirements. So if you have run any diesel fuel in California for the past 10 years you have run renewable diesel albeit in a small percentage in petroleum fuel. R99 does not contain 5% biodiesel as the entire 99% is renewable/bio-based. We haven't notice any fuel economy changes one way or the other but UPS feels a 2% FE increase is reasonable by altering the fuel map to take advantage of the increased cetane in their larger vehicles. Retail of R99 here in California is on par with petroleum diesel and is becoming available at cardlock and retail sites such as 76 and Propel. The reduction in regens is due to 33% reduction in PM going into the DPF. Don't worry about lubricity- this is all address at the refinery with additives. This is NOT biodiesel and seems to be a miracle fuel


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## Richard Battersby (Jun 9, 2021)

There is a company REG, that markets an 80/20 (R79/B20/1 petroleum diesel) blend marketed as "Ultra Clean"


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

I am bummed out - My cardlock here in portland, oregon quit carrying renewable diesel at the pump. I can buy it by the barrel and pay an extra $1 per gallon + a delivery charge.

Using the R99, my soot percentage on my scangauge would show 20-30% with in town driving - amazing stuff.

The closest supplier is now at a cardlock in mcminnville south of me - need to round up a 55 gallon drum and drive down there to get some... I have my cfn and pacific pride cards that will work at the cardlock there that has it. It is an hour drive from my place.

I have resorted to pump chevron running xenum nex10 additive to keep the dpf and egr clean. I ordered a case of 18 from europe and have some extra if anyone is interested. It is not available here in the U.S.A.

jeff


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Richard Battersby said:


> In fact I bought 20+ Cruze sedans just to run R99.


Hah, nice. "We need a fleet of Diesel passenger cars. [looks around, VW is absent] OK, Chevrolet it is."


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## Richard Battersby (Jun 9, 2021)

Barry Allen said:


> Hah, nice. "We need a fleet of Diesel passenger cars. [looks around, VW is absent] OK, Chevrolet it is."


EXACTLY. I ran the fleet at UC Davis before the Oakland gig and did the same thing with VW Jetta TDI's and B20 around 2013. We actually had to get the OK from VW USA for this pilot because there was not an official sanction for B20 use in them at the time. I wasn't there after diesel gate broke but I understand the University got all the acquisition funding returned and then some. This was unfortunate, because drivers loved the Jetta versus the other standard sedans at the time (Chevy Malibu and Dodge Dart), and they did perform remarkably well. I guess we know why


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

Richard Battersby said:


> I wasn't there after diesel gate broke but I understand the University got all the acquisition funding returned and then some. This was unfortunate, because drivers loved the Jetta versus the other standard sedans at the time


Should have just kept the cars. They drive fine and no one cares about the tailpipe emissions.


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## aaronmk4 (8 mo ago)

Just to share a little info I found about GM regarding the use of R95/R99 fuel. Can't say I go out of my way to find renewable diesel, but I have been using a local Shell station for some time now and haven't seen much difference between R99, B20 and #2, no issues either, including MPG and DPF soot levels/accumulation. I do change my filter every other oil change, so haven't seen much clogging/contamination myself either.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

aaronmk4 said:


> Just to share a little info I found about GM regarding the use of R95/R99 fuel.


It would be hard for GM to deny use of this fuel. R99 meets the specs of ASTM-D975 (the specifications for Diesel fuel) so it literally _IS_ Diesel fuel without any question. GM cannot tell anyone they cannot use Diesel fuel in their Diesel vehicle.


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

Richard Battersby said:


> I wish I had joined this forum earlier. At the City of Oakland we've been using R99 since 2015 with zero issues. We use it in all of our diesel powered equipment including Code 3 fire apparatuses and stationary emergency power generators including at the 911 call center. In fact I bought 20+ Cruze sedans just to run R99. The Propel HPR is R99 and there is no 100% RD or biodiesel sold because the 1% petroleum is required to earn the blenders credit. Renewable diesel is not a new fuel- it has been used blended into the petroleum diesel fuel supply in California since about 2009 to meet LCSF requirements. So if you have run any diesel fuel in California for the past 10 years you have run renewable diesel albeit in a small percentage in petroleum fuel. R99 does not contain 5% biodiesel as the entire 99% is renewable/bio-based. We haven't notice any fuel economy changes one way or the other but UPS feels a 2% FE increase is reasonable by altering the fuel map to take advantage of the increased cetane in their larger vehicles. Retail of R99 here in California is on par with petroleum diesel and is becoming available at cardlock and retail sites such as 76 and Propel. The reduction in regens is due to 33% reduction in PM going into the DPF. Don't worry about lubricity- this is all address at the refinery with additives. This is NOT biodiesel and seems to be a miracle fuel


How can UPS legally modify ECU programming on their vehicles? Did they go through the whole CARB certification process?


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## Diesel4Ever (May 30, 2018)

There is so much hype and false information regarding RD aka Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil it is incredible. Sometimes I think there are paid PR organizations that post false information on forums like Cruzetalk.com to influence public perceptions of this product.

RD has lower BTUs and energy density than petroleum diesel. It also has excessively high cetane which reduces the peak combustion cylinder pressure resulting in *reduced power and torque*. 

Unless you are aroused by the use of a subsidized "green" fuel, you will get better performance and economy from CARB diesel #2 which has a cetane rating of 53-56+. This can be further enhanced by using a diesel fuel additive to make it superior in every way including soot production to RD. I get the best fuel economy from Costco CARB B5 dosed 400:1 with TDR-FL additive.

There was an extensive and compressive study of RD compared to CARB ULSD done by a consultant called GNA aka Gladstein.org in 2017. It is the most comprehensive and detailed study of RD I’ve ever seen which used multiple test engines w/ different duty cycles and also included testing of RD/ULSD blends.

The results of the study showed a fuel economy loss of 0-6%. The testing also showed that emissions reductions were highly dependent on duty cycle and some results even showed an INCREASE in emissions in some engines with RD, again based on duty cycle and load.



https://cdn.gladstein.org/pdfs/whitepapers/renewable-diesel-as-a-major-transportation-fuel-in-ca-report.pdf


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

I hate that I'm not in a position to transition to a BEV right now. I can't make a good case to purchase one and my finances have no room to purchase one.

Some of us want to use fuels as environmentally friendly as possible. If the gasoline Cruze had been E85 compatible, I would have bought that and been fueling it with E85 about 99% of the time.


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## oregon_rider (Jul 21, 2017)

Barry Allen said:


> I hate that I'm not in a position to transition to a BEV right now. I can't make a good case to purchase one and my finances have no room to purchase one.
> 
> Some of us want to use fuels as environmentally friendly as possible. If the gasoline Cruze had been E85 compatible, I would have bought that and been fueling it with E85 about 99% of the time.


 We just bought a hyundai kona electric. The trade in values for used cars is pretty crazy high right now. But everyone is asking more than msrp on everything too... I have to say I is nice to be disconnected from the gasoline prices... 

I am switching to renewable diesel for my 2005 chev duramax. 

Renewable diesel is a good solution to all the issues plaguing the cruze and its emissions system. Reduced soot makes for clean dpf and clean egr.

Jeff


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## spaycace (Feb 9, 2012)

Barry Allen said:


> I hate that I'm not in a position to transition to a BEV right now. I can't make a good case to purchase one and my finances have no room to purchase one.
> 
> Some of us want to use fuels as environmentally friendly as possible. If the gasoline Cruze had been E85 compatible, I would have bought that and been fueling it with E85 about 99% of the time.


I'm pretty sure the gasoline Cruze was capable of running on E85, except for the fact that GM most likely didn't install the proper fuel mapping nor the E85 fuel composition sensor (like for my 2009 G8, which had everything necessary to run E85 except the e85 sensor, and wiring harness) which cost about $300 or less for the kit for my G8. 

The other reason GM didn't do E85 on the Cruze is because the car was intended for high MPGs to meet CAFE standards. The Cruze would help compensate for all the low MPG SUVs they were selling. E85 provides more power, but worse economy.


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## Barry Allen (Apr 18, 2018)

spaycace said:


> The other reason GM didn't do E85 on the Cruze is because the car was intended for high MPGs to meet CAFE standards. The Cruze would help compensate for all the low MPG SUVs they were selling. E85 provides more power, but worse economy.


I could be entirely wrong, but I don't think E85 capability affects anything with CAFE ratings. The car can still be rated on gasoline when tested for CAFE, and the E85 capability doesn't diminish that number.

If anything, the E85 capability helps. Years ago it was manufacturers selling millions of flex-fuel vehicles that would never see a single gallon of E85 dispensed into the tanks, and they got some sort of emissions or fuel economy credits for selling them.


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