# Do I need to add more coolant?



## Nikon1234 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi. 


I need your help here. I have a 2012 eco manual. When I initially got it in Dec. 2012, the coolant level was just below the middle line. After 1.5 year operation, the coolant line drops below the lowest line. Is it normal for this drop? Because the coolant is in a sealed system, the coolant level should not change.

If I do need to add, is it a good idea to get coolant from the dealer? Just to be safe.

Thanks.

Dan


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## Nikon1234 (Nov 25, 2012)

a better pic.


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Yes, some needs to be added - that looks like it is just above the intake tube. As it won't "vent" at that low of a coolant level, I believe you are losing it from either the water pump or possibly heater core.

Do you smell coolant vapor at any time? If you fill to the top of the arrow on the side of the tank, you may start smelling coolant vapors - seems to be a luck of the draw - but a handful of us have found that filling the coolant to the bottom of the arrow on the side of the tank will keep these vapors from venting out the vent on the side of the tank.

Standard DexCool from an auto parts store will work to fill it with no issues, but you may want to take it in to the dealer anyway to have the coolant loss documented & the car checked out for leaks. If your water pump is the culprit, you will be covered under the 5 yr/100K powertrain warranty even if your 3/36 B2B has expired.


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## spacedout (Dec 7, 2010)

You should be taking the photo from the other side of tank, much easier to see the level in reference to the lower drain back tube. My car uses around 2inches of coolant every 15,000 miles, dealer has found no leaks. I just try to keep my tank just under half full so I know it will never go too low. 


When you buy coolant just make sure to by pre-mixed(already 50/50) dexcool.


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## Robby (Mar 1, 2013)

Go ahead and add to the first or second line up.
Since you have had the car 17 months.....if it took this long to drop to that point...no worries, yet.

Keep an eye on it after adding....might have been normal loss over time.

Rob


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

When I picked up my brand new Cruze, coolant level was to the top line, after I drove it around for about a week, noticed it dropped to below the second line. And was kicking around taking it back to my dealer. But have a bottle of Dex-Cool here from other vehicles so top it off. Some 27,000 miles and 27 months later, it hasn't dropped, not even a tiny fraction of an inch.

These are self purging systems, could be reason it dropped, or another more logical reason, the reservoir cap was not tight new from the factory.

Never liked these newer systems as opposed to using a good old fashion radiator cap, and with 221*F operating temperature, that plastic reservoir is seeing the same pressure as the rest of the cooling system. Here again we go with another O-Ring that could be your problem or that cap is not tight. It helps to use some silicone grease on that O-Ring, so it doesn't bind, just a light coating.

But to answer your question, it should not drop, 04 Cavalier had the same system, didn't drop at all even with more than 110K miles on it. 

Several have reported either heater core or water pump leaks. Other with coolant odor under the hood, cap is questionable.


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## tracepk (Aug 20, 2013)

Had my 14 for about 8-9 months and 9100 miles, was at the middle line from factory and hasnt moved even slightly since.


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## rscruze (Apr 11, 2012)

I have a 2013 ECO Manual. Just at 16500 and noticed that the coolant level had dropped to something very similar to your level. It was time for an oil change anyway and so I took it to the dealer and mentioned to them. They added some more coolant and asked me to keep an eye on it and documented it. 

I also have this terrible smell right after I switch off the A/C which has been discussed on this board multiple times. It does not occur always though. 

The smell though is very dizzying and my little children hate it. I hope it does not cause any health issues. 
Other than that the car runs very well. 

Attached is a photo of what my level was looking like when I took to the dealer last week.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

rscruze,

That's so low that it's risking the engine. The coolant level should be at least an inch above the top of the lower hose to ensure no air gets into the cooling system.


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## Bullet (Aug 9, 2013)

I wouldn't let it drop more than an inch from the top before adding more to be always sure I'm in the safe side in longer distance trips.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

> The smell though is very dizzying and my little children hate it. I hope it does not cause any health issues.
> Other than that the car runs very well.


From day one with AC, hmm, back in 1962, seems like yesterday, been switching off the compressor with blower at maximum to dry off the evaporator.

Two benefits to this practice, first your vehicle does not go to the bathroom all over your garage floor. Second, leaving the evaporator soaking wet, not only reduces its life, but natural for mold to form that gives a terrible odor.

Quite a difference in mold odor from coolant, so have to describe what that odor is. Coolant odor is extremely dangerous to your kidneys, mold is just an annoyance.

Historically, if interested in history, first vehicle used a heat exchanger from the exhaust system, but people were dying from CO poisoning. So switched to the heater core, but were using an alcohol based anti-freeze. But never changed this when glycerin based antifreeze was used.

My cousin at the ripe old age of 24 died from kidney failure driving an old junker to college, when it hits this close, become far more aware. Was a long painful death.


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## rscruze (Apr 11, 2012)

NickD said:


> From day one with AC, hmm, back in 1962, seems like yesterday, been switching off the compressor with blower at maximum to dry off the evaporator.
> 
> Two benefits to this practice, first your vehicle does not go to the bathroom all over your garage floor. Second, leaving the evaporator soaking wet, not only reduces its life, but natural for mold to form that gives a terrible odor.
> 
> Quite a difference in mold odor from coolant, so have to describe what that odor is. Coolant odor is extremely dangerous to your kidneys, mold is just an annoyance.


Thanks everybody for your valuable input. Now, I wonder why the dealership service dept. didn't seem alarmed. I really hope it didn't let any air in or cause any damage to my engine. Would I not see a spike in temp if that were the case? 

Reading Nick's reply, I am going to do that from now on--i.e. run the blower full blast after switching off the compressor to be sure it dries out all the condensation. 

I need to figure out how to distinguish between coolant smell and mold smell. The smell I get is likely very stinky socks or something like that. Would it help if I opened up the coolant reservoir and smelled the coolant to identify hot coolant smell? 

Thanks


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## jblackburn (Apr 14, 2012)

Don't open it hot! All the pressure will equalize and coolant will rush out and scald you. 

But yeah, take a whiff when the car is cool. It smells kinda like maple syrup to me.

There is an after blow mode for the evaporator that can be activated by the dealer if you do indeed have a moldy smell. It'll run the blower fan after shutting off the car for a minute or two to dry the core - won't have any effect on your battery. 


Sent from Bill the WonderPhone


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## rscruze (Apr 11, 2012)

jblackburn said:


> Don't open it hot! All the pressure will equalize and coolant will rush out and scald you.
> 
> But yeah, take a whiff when the car is cool. It smells kinda like maple syrup to me.
> 
> ...


I opened the reservoir and took a whiff. I agree with you it has a very sweet smell to it. That is definitely not the smell we get when I switch off the A/C. That smell is really stinky! 

I am now thinking it might really be mold as Nick mentioned. I never knew about this "after blow mode". That should have been enabled by default if it does not have any side effects. I'll talk to my dealer the next time I trek up there. 

In the mean time I'll keep an eye out on my coolant level. 

Thanks all of you.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

I agree as much as one describe an odor, coolant does have a sweet pleasant odor, but deadly. Mold, more like sweaty polyester socks.

A product like this may help.










"[FONT=Verdana, Arial][SIZE=-1]Doesn’t Just Cover-up Odors it Eliminates them at the Source - Eliminates Odors Caused by Mold, Mildew, Pets, Tobacco Smoke & More - Quick and Easy to Use - Ideal for All Automotive A/C Systems - New Car Scent"[/SIZE][/FONT]


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

rscruze said:


> Thanks everybody for your valuable input. Now, I wonder why the dealership service dept. didn't seem alarmed. I really hope it didn't let any air in or cause any damage to my engine. Would I not see a spike in temp if that were the case?
> 
> Reading Nick's reply, I am going to do that from now on--i.e. run the blower full blast after switching off the compressor to be sure it dries out all the condensation.
> 
> ...


Stinky socks is mold/mildew. There are three odors you can get and this is one of them.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

> Don't open it hot! All the pressure will equalize and coolant will rush out and scald you.


Use to state this very important fact on all radiator caps, but in English.

Is also printed on this plastic cap in the Cruze, but in "Icon".

Ha, have been commented for some time, should teach Icon in schools.

Use to make this coolant stuff out of cast iron and brass running at around 14 psi maximum. Now with aluminum and plastic crap, increased the pressure to 20 psi.

So your wonder why you have problems!


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## tdc (Jan 24, 2014)

jblackburn said:


> Yes, some needs to be added - that looks like it is just above the intake tube. As it won't "vent" at that low of a coolant level, I believe you are losing it from either the water pump or possibly heater core.
> 
> Do you smell coolant vapor at any time? If you fill to the top of the arrow on the side of the tank, you may start smelling coolant vapors - seems to be a luck of the draw - but a handful of us have found that filling the coolant to the bottom of the arrow on the side of the tank will keep these vapors from venting out the vent on the side of the tank.
> 
> Standard DexCool from an auto parts store will work to fill it with no issues, but you may want to take it in to the dealer anyway to have the coolant loss documented & the car checked out for leaks. If your water pump is the culprit, you will be covered under the 5 yr/100K powertrain warranty even if your 3/36 B2B has expired.


Thank you 'jblackburn' for your input and guidance. (2012 Cruze LS, 1.8L, Auto). I noticed my coolant in overflow tank low (car cold) (but above the draw tube). I just added coolant (Dex-Cool) to the top of the arrow (car cold). (I guess I should've checked this forum before doing so). I had not smelled/detected any coolant vapors up to now (thankfully). I guess I'll try and draw some back out to move the level to the bottom of the embossed 'arrow up' on the bottle, as you suggest. Then, keep an eye on it. I may take it to the dealer to have it documented. Thank you. 
By the way, my cap was very tight when I first opened it. tdc.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

Lowering the coolant level can relieve coolant venting issues, but if the system is operating properly it should hold its level even when topped right up. Since fixing my tank to cap seal I'm actually running my car with a slight coolant overfill and it's not venting or leaking.


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## Merc6 (Jun 8, 2013)

Blue Angel said:


> Lowering the coolant level can relieve coolant venting issues, but if the system is operating properly it should hold its level even when topped right up. Since fixing my tank to cap seal I'm actually running my car with a slight coolant overfill and it's not venting or leaking.


Mine is at the tip of the arrow and hasn't moved since last fall. I smell coolant after a hard drive if I pop the hood but it's not in the cabin or on the ground.


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## NickD (Dec 10, 2011)

Brief history for years, would never fill a radiator above 2" below the cap when cold, expansion would overflow through the overflow tube. Key disadvantage of these systems was always oxygen in the mix causing excessive internal engine corrosion. 

Adding the reservoir was a very good idea, where the coolant overflow would go into it, also was a zero pressure reservoir. As the engine cooled, would draw coolant back from the engine from the reservoir to keep the cooling system oxygen free and filled to the top. A metal radiator cap was used, and even if worn, fluid would not be wasted but would exchange more with the reservoir.

What is not a good idea was to eliminate the radiator cap and make the reservoir part of the high pressure system. In the case of the Cruze, with a 220*F operating system, pressures are in the 20 psi range, 25% higher than conventional. Also the reservoir is made out of plastic with a plastic cap using an O'ring for a seal. Ask the passengers in Challenger about O'rings.










With 220*F temperatures reaching into the reservoir and high pressures, these O'rings don't last very long, thus the loss of coolant and additional odors. Plus using plastic tubes for the interface. 

Hope the hood release latch on the Cruze is reliable, check the grease on it frequently, open it frequently for a quick glance on engine oil, coolant and brake fluid levels. Also augmented by the fact that aluminum heads and many plastic components are quickly destroyed with an engine overheat condition. With aircraft piloting experience, was trains to frequently scan all the gauges, most important one is exhaust gas temperature EGT, that changes drastically with changes in altitude and running hot can quickly fry up the engine.

Same with the Cruze to constantly monitor the temperature gauge. Not very fond of getting rid of the radiator cap, also makes replacing Dex-Cool a first place pain in the butt, concerned about air pockets in the system. Hope this change made the stockholders happy, sure didn't make me happy. 

Cheapest way to check for leaks is to buy a spare cap, jury rig a an air compressor coupler to it, hit it with 20 psi, and look at the entire engine and cooling system for sprays. A little silicone grease on that cap O-rings, helps to keep it from binding. Just more problems by getting rid of that radiator cap.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

NickD said:


> Also the reservoir is made out of plastic with a plastic cap using an O'ring for a seal. Ask the passengers in Challenger about O'rings.
> 
> With 220*F temperatures reaching into the reservoir and high pressures, these O'rings don't last very long, thus the loss of coolant and additional odors.


O-rings are everywhere and prove to be reliable, as reliable as other seals anyway, as long as they are located in grooves and against surfaces that are properly sized/finished to ensure the o-ring can do its job properly.


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## rscruze (Apr 11, 2012)

Since my previous post in May where my coolant level was dangerously low and I took in to the dealership and they topped it off, now it is low again. I keep checking regularly and it is just above the lower tube. I don't see any leaks anywhere, so I suspect it is the water pump as others have mentioned here. 

Can one of the GM reps on this board please help me out? Please?

Thanks


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## Eddy Cruze (Jan 10, 2014)

obermd said:


> Stinky socks is mold/mildew. There are three odors you can get and this is one of them.


BV?


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

Stinky socks - mold/mildew in the HVAC system
Coolant odor in the engine bay - leak in the engine bay; most likely from either a leaky water pump or an overfilled cooling system.
"Coolant" odor in the cabin but not the engine bay - HVAC box lubricant breaking down under the extremely high temperatures pumped into the heater core. This isn't coolant but to someone who hasn't actually smelled both this odor can be mistaken for coolant. The key here is the lack of odor in the engine bay.

Other than a small number of 2011 Cruzen that had faulty cabin heater cores, item 2 is the only true repetitive coolant leak in the Cruze, and one that the redesigned water pump resolves. The current notice to dealerships is only addressing one of the two remaining sources of coolant loss. Unfortunately it only addresses the "one-time loss" derived from an extremely difficult fill procedure. The procedure itself is simple but it leaves a lot to be desired from the stand point of ensuring no trapped air in the cooling system. 

The other source of coolant loss is the failure of the pressure cap/tank seal to hold 20 PSI. Note that I said seal - my pressure cap has been tested and it holds 20 PSI. My cooling system has been tested and it also holds 20 PSI. What cannot be tested is the seal when the cap is inserted into the tank. In addition you can also see coolant residue in the tank's vent channel, which means that if the cap is holding 20 PSI by itself the only other possibility is the seal between the tank and cap.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

obermd said:


> 2. Coolant odor in the engine bay - leak in the engine bay; most likely from either a leaky water pump or an overfilled cooling system...
> 
> ...The other source of coolant loss is the failure of the pressure cap/tank seal to hold 20 PSI.


Tank/cap seal is part of #2, underhood coolant odors. This can also cause coolant odors in the interior if the cowl cover seal is not working correctly as it offers a pathway for the coolant vapors vented from the tank to enter the HVAC intake. The area where the cowl cover seal fails to make proper contact is right behind the surge tank, so any vapors venting from the tank are right there waiting to be drawn in.

This will be an intermittent odor that will come and go, it will not be constant. When I could smell mine it always seemed it was when coming to a stop after a period of relatively high speed driving, like a stop light at the end of a highway off ramp I took to work every morning. I think moving at higher speeds kept enough air moving through the engine bay that the coolant vapors were being flushed away, but when coming to a stop they would concentrate again, enough I could smell them.


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## rscruze (Apr 11, 2012)

Hi all,

This is a quick update. I had contacted the GM reps on this board as well as my dealership about this issue. The GM reps on here (Kristen & Patsy) have been very helpful along the way and they event contacted my dealership service dept and set up a case # for me. Anyway the dealership identified it as a Recall #14417 (Coolant level drops without an external Leak). It involves trapped air in the radiator that needs to get removed. No other parts changed, etc. (i.e. no water pump replacement, etc.) Anybody else heard of this before? 

They also fixed my key issue but I will post that in the other thread. 
Anyway I got my car back and they claim it is fixed now. I will be keeping an eye out to be sure. Just FYI my car is a 2013 cruze ECO MT.

Regards.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

rscruze said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is a quick update. I had contacted the GM reps on this board as well as my dealership about this issue. The GM reps on here (Kristen & Patsy) have been very helpful along the way and they event contacted my dealership service dept and set up a case # for me. Anyway the dealership identified it as a Recall #14417 (Coolant level drops without an external Leak). It involves trapped air in the radiator that needs to get removed. No other parts changed, etc. (i.e. no water pump replacement, etc.) Anybody else heard of this before?
> 
> ...


It's not fixed. You have already had your coolant level have two significant drops. When it drops again have your dealership put in the coolant dye to make it easier to find the leak. The dye will leave a florescent residue that can be easily seen.


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## Blue Angel (Feb 18, 2011)

FWIW, I stopped by my local dealer tonight to pick something up and they had two used Cruzes parked with the hoods up. BOTH cars were low on coolant, only about 1" above the lower hose.


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## MIPS64 (Sep 10, 2012)

I had both my water pump and heater core replaced. They were never able to find anything with pressure test or dye so they just replaced the parts to see what would happen. At the time the water pump replacement seemed to fix it but now I am noticing that it is going down again.


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## obermd (Mar 3, 2012)

MIPS64 said:


> I had both my water pump and heater core replaced. They were never able to find anything with pressure test or dye so they just replaced the parts to see what would happen. At the time the water pump replacement seemed to fix it but now I am noticing that it is going down again.


Take a close look at the vent channel. It wouldn't surprise me to find it's covered with coolant residue.


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## Chevy Customer Care (Oct 29, 2011)

We will like to look further into this issue, MIPS64. Feel free to send us a private message with your VIN and we will see if there are any open service announcements pertaining to your concern. Hoping to hear from you soon!

Kristen A.
Chevrolet Customer Care


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## hificruzer226 (Mar 27, 2013)

There is an active recall for this, I got mined topped off a week ago.


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